"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a42a95725814e2ab64fe1a9287b5c90\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 5 MAY 2015\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022822f4482a1cc4d36bd2d4ada65ea8134\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 5 MAY 2015\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227818c32fc4d0444ab4aff65768ffbe89\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a458f1657c84d5da3a5ecc074757adc\u0022\u003EJapan\u20142015 Prime Minister\u2019s Fellow, Vice-Minister of Health, Labour and Welfare\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002220776795ec924a03933358435471918a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220776795ec924a03933358435471918a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Honourable members, I am sure that members would wish to welcome Mr Gaku Hashimoto, Parliamentary Vice-Minister of Health, Labour and Welfare and Japanese Prime Minister\u2019s Fellow 2015, who is present in the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002291a007e7685b4734b4979b5e24603e85\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228f87294cfe384423bb2ec1473070dfc9\u0022\u003ECongratulatory Message\u2014Birth of Her Royal Highness Princess Charlotte of Cambridge\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6a96439cbbd48038ae6e41e829b955f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6a96439cbbd48038ae6e41e829b955f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without notice on the birth of Her Royal Highness Princess Charlotte of Cambridge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bbb54e71bf94c5795beb4e4b0075862\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249d933e633c34820a11572e1b9596ee3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the House put on record its congratulations to Prince William, the Duke of Cambridge, and Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge, on the birth of Her Royal Highness Princess Charlotte of Cambridge. The birth of a second child is an exciting time for a family. It is a time of great joy and immense celebration, and part of that joy is observing the reaction of the older brother or sister as they meet the new little member of the family. I am sure that the duke and duchess are cherishing this special time with both Prince George and their new daughter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThe birth of Prince George was one of the most eagerly anticipated in recent history. It is moving to see that the public is just as excited at the birth of the princess. I am sure she will bring the same delight as we watch her grow. It is a pleasure to observe the strong family unit bonded by love and mutual support that the duke and duchess are creating with their children. I have joined with other leaders across the Commonwealth and the world in congratulating Prince William and the duchess on the arrival of their daughter, and I am sure that the other members of this House and the public of New Zealand support the good wishes expressed to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EI would also like to note that in a few days\u2019 time New Zealand will be welcoming His Royal Highness Prince Harry, who will be visiting our country for the first time. It will be an opportunity for New Zealanders to pass on personally their best wishes to the royal family on the birth of Princess Charlotte. New Zealand\u2019s official gift to the royal couple is a handcrafted teddy bear and a box set of woollen baby items made from wool of unique Stansborough sheep bred in the Wairarapa. The teddy will be specially made by Cheryl Eldridge of Stansborough and will have the special touches to make it unique for the princess. I might add that it is in the colour of dusky pink.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EOn behalf of the people of New Zealand, I am pleased to be able to put on the record of this House our congratulations to the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and to Prince George, and to welcome the newest member of the royal family into the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00221773f076819246afbe6838c1d43273bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221773f076819246afbe6838c1d43273bf\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking as the Leader of Her Majesty\u2019s loyal Opposition, can I also join the Prime Minister and the many New Zealanders congratulating the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge on the birth of their second child, Princess Charlotte Elizabeth Diana. Welcoming a child into the world is a very happy occasion for any family. Princess Charlotte, of course, arrived under the scrutiny of hundreds of media and millions more waiting in anticipation, including, of course, the street vendors keen to get their supplies of ceramic mugs and tea towels on to the streets\u2019 shelves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAs many in this House will know, I was actually in England for the days leading up to the royal birth. Despite the fact that I am a committed republican, it did not stop my wife Leigh from insisting that I bring back a ceramic mug or tea towel, or several of them, but, sadly, that did not happen on this occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIn spite of my personal views, I know that the Queen and her family are held in high regard by many New Zealanders. I acknowledge the important role different generations of the family are making today around the Commonwealth as standard-bearers for comity and community. For example, I note that Princess Charlotte\u2019s grandfather Prince Charles, after whom I understand Princess Charlotte has been named, gave the most eloquent and touching addresses at the Gallipoli commemorations over Anzac weekend. I see that the new princess carries the name \u201CDiana\u201D. That will be greeted warmly by the millions who continue to hold her grandmother in high esteem for her charity work around the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOn behalf of the Labour Party I once again respectfully congratulate the Duke and Duchess on the birth of their daughter, Princess Charlotte, and look forward to meeting her uncle Prince Harry when he arrives this weekend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u00226ee99924a7254e0ea5ec979acb8a7d1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ee99924a7254e0ea5ec979acb8a7d1f\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party congratulates Prince William and the Duchess of Cambridge on the birth of their second child, Charlotte Elizabeth Diana, Princess of Cambridge. The birth of a happy and healthy baby girl is always a cause for joy, and the name \u201CCharlotte\u201D has, apparently, ranked first in recent years by way of choice for a girl\u2019s name in New Zealand. But this royal baby is special for a particular reason. Charlotte will be the first female heir to the British throne to have her place in the line of succession guaranteed over younger male siblings and other male heirs. Blissfully unaware she may be, but as she beams out on the world she personifies constitutional progress for the Realm of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EAs we debate this motion today the New Zealand Flag Consideration Panel is starting its work. Whether changing the flag is necessary or not is a different issue, but that does show that New Zealanders are interested in discussing the issues that symbolise us as a nation and tell the story of who we are. The Green Party welcomes that debate. We should not take for granted that our symbols of nationhood today will be relevant tomorrow. We take this opportunity to wish the British royal family in London well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00226e78e982fc9d49b6a80d81901e815139\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e78e982fc9d49b6a80d81901e815139\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. New Zealand First joins with the rest of the House in extending our congratulations to the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. We welcome Charlotte Elizabeth Diana and we wish both her and her family, her older brother, and extended family a safe and happy life. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00229ed69a01584c4af792edabde204b0402\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ed69a01584c4af792edabde204b0402\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou. Ko t\u0101ku he whaiwhai haere i ng\u0101 mihi a te Pirimia ki te uri o Irih\u0101peti, kua puta mai ki te whaiao, ki Te Ao M\u0101rama.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker. Salutations to us. I am merely following up the Prime Minister\u2019s sentiments to the descendant of Queen Elizabeth who has emerged into the world of light and understanding.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAs a representative of some of Her Majesty\u2019s Treaty partners, I stand to follow on from the Prime Minister\u2019s statement and acknowledge the birth of e k\u012B ana te k\u014Drero he taonga ki te ao [as it has been stated, a worldly treasure].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, but I probably want to pay more tribute to the grandparents, being a grandfather myself on the birth of my mokopuna. In our household our mokopuna is the princess\u2014in fact, she is probably the queen, to be truthful, in everything that she does, from the time she wakes up until the time she goes to bed. So in our household she is the queen, not just the princess. I wish them all the very best in the years ahead. In particular, I hope that the House thinks very much of the grandparents today, as we consider this very important last couple of days for the birth of a taonga ki te ao, ar\u0101 noa atu ng\u0101 taonga o te ao [a worldly treasure, and there are many other treasures of the world]. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022845f8c7019d245e981d0e769476e1c2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022845f8c7019d245e981d0e769476e1c2a\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the ACT Party, I would like to offer our warmest congratulations to Prince William and the Duchess of Cambridge on the birth of Princess Catherine\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d86edc0762fb4dfda9ce415ace98eba5\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Charlotte.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229f2fc397fec41f2b7c00b4345bf8657\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014sorry, Charlotte\u2014a healthy, strapping 8 pound, 3 ounce baby. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002283f087451c4449e58eeaaeb4f7e7b5d5\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a8478e489d96439ea076b97cac90d76a\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u2014Procedure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022744a12e85469451789c3e8335a4c307b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022744a12e85469451789c3e8335a4c307b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Last Thursday Metiria Turei raised a point of order seeking my advice on the procedure for seeking leave to table a document. To assist members, I have given this further consideration and I have also examined the rulings of previous Speakers. What I will require of members when seeking leave to table a document are three things, and that the members identify these three things in this order: the source of the document, when it was published or produced, and to very succinctly inform the House of its nature. This way an informed decision can be made by members as to whether the document should in fact be tabled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESeeking leave to table a document is not an opportunity to make a political statement that a member wishes to be heard. It is intended for placing before the House material that informs members of matters that are not otherwise readily available to them. Briefly describing for the House the nature of the document is not an opportunity to quote passages from it. If members persist in doing so, the leave will not be put to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022994f29e8f9cd460f9aeb50eda60e1c1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022994f29e8f9cd460f9aeb50eda60e1c1c\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That is a considered ruling and I understand the point you are raising. The only challenge for members in describing the document is that I think there must be some necessity to explain the relevance for tabling a document at that point. Otherwise, we can get into a situation where members can be seeking to table all sorts of things, and part of the narrowing-down of the rules around tabling is to prevent that from happening. So although the description does need to be succinct, it also needs to relate the nature of the document to the question or the speech in question, otherwise it is simply a pointless exercise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a150789dc42949f19dcfb6dca1ed0ba7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a150789dc42949f19dcfb6dca1ed0ba7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think my ruling is very clear. There is an opportunity to succinctly describe the nature of the document, and on various occasions that will require more depth than on other occasions. But I repeat the point that it is not the opportunity for members to make a political statement, which I see it being used for on many occasions. If I sense that that is the purpose of the member who is seeking to table the document, it is likely that the leave will not be put in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8c530ef9e8942b7a87df982d0dd450b\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d4548ba508a4af192e0b561892e4add\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec28bd437e024cc39b2815efadd67bce\u0022\u003EOverseas Investment\u2014Agriculture and Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00226e7a9626848e402d943b7191f6163051\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e7a9626848e402d943b7191f6163051\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022eabbe40f8134493fbedfffda6f5f8fc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eabbe40f8134493fbedfffda6f5f8fc0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, because I believe them to be correct at the time they were made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227daf094e001641f89c59ff98a8dbfc76\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement that he would \u201Chate to see New Zealanders as tenants in their own country\u201D; if so, why did his Government so avidly support Shanghai Pengxin Group\u2019s purchase of farms in the central North Island and now 10 dairy farms south of Kaikohe in Northland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022344802d1d3f34df88f81a5f89b7fb86e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022771130a30e404a8d8c78bfcbff495fee\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question, the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1253fe640074446b0773910af58faa5\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Opposing investment in Northland again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228807bfd98a3b49d7a3de277aa7fb4cb8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here is \u201CBig Ears\u201D again. He lost in Northland pretty badly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cfa732d4258422bac7ea1e4a14b26f9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I am going to invite the member to stand and ask the supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0c920780108471db478168ff3209e51\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why has his Government encouraged China to control so much of New Zealand\u2019s dairy infant formula, from production testing through to marketing and sale of New Zealand\u2019s premium agricultural product?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b625eb21ca654c548572f5ad394cb460\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The position of the Government is not necessarily to encourage investment from anywhere but to allow a framework whereby if people want to invest they are free to do so, but they have to meet the conditions set out in the Overseas Investment Act. They have to be approved by the Overseas Investment Office. Actually, the Government thinks investments by Inner Mongolia Yili Industrial Group Co. Ltd, Yashili New Zealand Dairy, and Bright and others have actually been sensible investments in the same way that we think Fonterra\u2019s investment in Beingmate was also a sensible investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292ea6aff07b442169ab0c5099b9877d2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: When will the National Government understand the law of supply and demand, which sees Auckland housing demand massively inflated by record levels of immigration into Auckland and record levels of buying Auckland homes by offshore interests, and do what the Australian Federal Government has done?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d338755e2b26461eb48dbaaccae74464\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I understand it, in Australia what they have done is they have stopped, in theory, non-residents from buying existing properties, but in fact the actions of the Australian Government over the weekend essentially are saying that those measures were not working and required greater enforceability\u2014a testimony to why those things are very difficult to enforce. The second thing is that despite the steps the Australian Government has taken, I am pretty sure I am right in saying that Sydney house prices have risen at the same rate as Auckland\u2019s, but I actually think they have risen at a faster rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b7101777ecf4bf8b174b2932db737e4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Do not all those answers add up to the fact that this Government, whilst making dog whistles about foreign ownership before the general election, has done absolutely nothing to stop it since?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dca34da68b884f0b955349de2117d013\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: There is foreign investment. If one looks at a table\u2014and, funnily enough, I looked at one this morning\u2014the bulk of that foreign investment actually comes from Australia. China, if the member is being specific about China, is quite a small investor in New Zealand. But, interestingly enough, what I think is really important is that anybody who comes to New Zealand from overseas to invest follows the Overseas Investment Act. I am interested to note, of course, that the author of that Act was the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d142a0ca7da44d86aa7f3e0521823345\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Answers to parliamentary questions are meant to be terse and to the point. That last statement was a demonstrable lie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022358ef0bae3de4bdaaf3f684db4a639ed\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I would also be grateful if the member could, equally, ask short and terse supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227eb4f4dcdfc64d8eb86dfd6255bc9a7f\u0022\u003EInflation\u2014Crown Revenue\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022f888da39670b41e4b104369d37fc347e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f888da39670b41e4b104369d37fc347e\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on low inflation in New Zealand, and how does that benefit households and businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00229fcaeaba8f1a4c7cb42505bedece852f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fcaeaba8f1a4c7cb42505bedece852f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E As the published figures have shown, New Zealand is experiencing very low inflation\u2014or, more accurately, in the last 6 months actually we have had deflation. Usually in an economy growing at 3 percent, inflation is rising, not falling. However, it is good news for New Zealand households and businesses, which can expect to see interest rates and inflation stay lower for longer than they expected, and this is likely to help to reduce unemployment and sustain real wage growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f25909db6d0748999407c492de892353\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: What impact does lower than expected inflation have on Government revenue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e9a4c93c25b4bed9dc901a9ef224370\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Very low inflation and lower interest rates and lower commodity prices mean that growth in the dollar value of what New Zealand produces each year is a bit lower than expected. Treasury now expects that the dollar value of what we produce each year over the next 4 years will be around $15 billion less than forecast in Budget 2014, even though the economy will actually grow slightly faster than we expected in Budget 2014. This poses some real challenges for Government revenue, because it means less PAYE, less company tax, and less GST. In total, Treasury expects the Government will collect $4.5 billion less tax revenue over the next 4 years than it expected at the last Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229edb65cfd21c4dbc96c79d0de7fcf75b\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that question and answer, is it in fact correct that \u201Clower than expected inflation\u201D actually means lower Government expenditure as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228352b97e4c154edebd025dcdd9f2b73d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As it turns out, the inflation impact on Government expenditure is considerably less than the impact on spending and the impact on tax revenue. That member had better figure it out, because his other members are always advocating more spending when he is advocating bigger surpluses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270670290f31949b5acb65d57ed92a7a3\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: How is lower revenue having an impact on the Government\u2019s ability to return the books to surplus in 2014-15?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225acdc9e2b9264fec9be7b11886f01e35\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Back in December Treasury forecast that the deficit for the 2014-15 year would be around $570 million, which is just 0.2 percent of GDP. It is fair to say that the forecast for the 2014-15 year has deteriorated a little since December, so we expect the Budget to forecast a slightly bigger deficit for 2014-15, and a slightly smaller surplus for 2015-16. So, while progress is slower than expected, we remain on track to achieve surpluses and to start repaying debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c486db0e0d514df3acf3681544efe3d4\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: What steps has the Government taken to get on top of spending and return the books to balance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022961fff53b9b34cf69e1dd46c042f3f75\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has been very thoughtful about its new spending, and very thoughtful about what drives existing spending. If you want a measure of that, in the last six Budgets, the total annual cost of new initiatives has been just under $3 billion. By comparison, the last six Budgets of the previous Government totalled $20 billion of extra costs\u2014$20 billion as opposed to $3 billion. But despite the fact that we have had very constrained spending, we have been delivering better public services with better results for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc050bd50f6f44af8388de5d3b98ad93\u0022\u003EMinisters\u2014Conduct\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00222b89423c1d2947e99b81a102f183733e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b89423c1d2947e99b81a102f183733e\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he enforce high standards of conduct on all his Ministers, including himself?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa59b303eea3465e9837b8357198baaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa59b303eea3465e9837b8357198baaf\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. However, in respect of my actions at a Parnell cafe, my conduct clearly upset the staff member in question. I sincerely apologised to her at the time that I became aware of that, and I have continued to do so publicly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215e567b4d32b4bb28474636eb470d847\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that repeatedly pulling a woman\u2019s hair who was just trying to do her job, despite her indicating to him to stop, was unworthy of any grown man, let alone the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9eaa75953bf483886e5c91ec0d1a683\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I accept I misread the situation. I have apologised for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292c11d3b38614cb3a7d66e50a7d54fa5\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that through his embarrassing and weird behaviour he has now made the office of the Prime Minister of New Zealand an international laughing stock?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c785e44c5eb04247929808b919a76beb\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, but I do accept I have to take responsibility for my own actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bda6ff653704ad99c20d3ae4d02c954\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Has he read the section of the Cabinet Manual that states: \u201Cincumbent Ministers should ensure that any requests they make for advice or information from their officials is for the purposes of their portfolio responsibilities and not for party political purposes.\u201D; if so, was the advice and information Simon Bridges sought from the New Zealand Transport Agency used in National\u2019s Northland bridges policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c071b543b2fb46d58157139cf9cbf72d\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f01e25b0d0084101b6738e6c3de89ace\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is that information was asked for\u2014I might need to check that\u2014and that is appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022988eeab58d8047428889a92b90414b44\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he allowing a Minister whose portfolio conflicts with the alleged actions of his own brother to remain as Minister, and why does he not follow the high standard I set in temporarily standing down Carmel Sepuloni in similar circumstances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272cfa84a45664486ba031938055fa797\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It is a very marginal call. I am going to allow the Prime Minister to deal with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7a77d340086487084d40f24dfe5db70\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, because I took advice on the day that I became aware of it. The advice was very clear that there had been no conflict up to that point and any potential conflict could be managed. I think all members of this House appreciate that there are potential conflicts, as an electorate MP right through to a Cabinet Minister, and they need to be managed. In relation to the actions that he took with Carmel Sepuloni, I personally think he made the wrong call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268be0b8cf90740f98d6b2358fffab55f\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement made after Mike Sabin resigned that Mr Sabin could have been a Minister, and what does that say about the standards he sets for ministerial office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022def5fa4f7ed842b58a96d2dceb9ae1a3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do stand by that statement. In the time that Mike Sabin was part of our caucus I actually found him to be a very thoughtful, hard-working member of Parliament. He had good policy ideas and I think he could have made a very, very good Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b3478145d504dfa9db1bb5ba065e3d3\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not true that he is allowing Ministers off the hook because he has lost his moral authority and that is why Judith Collins is sharpening her knives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7fa03c7ee014aca8eb3ae68cfb2aceb\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b89742eef6134e77bd2c852f8cbe155b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b47153951fb148afb3ed3fcfdc75f3e5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just before I call the member, I am waiting for a bit of assistance from my left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1b5f2450caa42e789daf8ad40029935\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does this mean that his subterranean standards are so low that Judith Collins, despite the appalling Oravida scandal and numerous gaffes, is soon to be welcomed back into Cabinet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022140ab3cd67d84f94b826d254c7798f2d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The great news on this side of the House is that we have a caucus full of talent and opportunity. Judith happens to be one of its members. There are many others, and if one day an opportunity opens itself, I am sure that Judith, along with many others, will be wanting to put her hand up. It is nice to have some fantastic people to choose from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd606d48def14a4281c9afd9792ebdfa\u0022\u003ENew Zealand International Convention Centre Act 2013 Repeal Bill\u2014Fiscal Impact\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c444a972604c4cd09ec51f00b0a02e0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c444a972604c4cd09ec51f00b0a02e0d\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E My question is to the Minister for Economic Development and reads as follows\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022217b39ff2dd44aff93ba828596869487\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022217b39ff2dd44aff93ba828596869487\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! There is just too much noise from my left-hand side. I will ask the member to start his question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002217e762739486468ab08559e4809703c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217e762739486468ab08559e4809703c7\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: What are the fiscal risks to the Crown from Tracey Martin\u2019s New Zealand International Convention Centre Act 2013 Repeal Bill, if any?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022e73587cfe8af4239a4ebb204c7c03010\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e73587cfe8af4239a4ebb204c7c03010\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E If the bill was to pass\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ebeb404ede94d73a6f7cb03699fbe1b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I am about to lose my patience with one member in particular. There has just been perpetual interjection from one member, particularly, in a very loud voice. If it happens again I will be asking that member to leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221378aaa210c457b845bab642bd32744\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: If the bill was to pass and the New Zealand International Convention Centre Act repealed, the risks would be high. In terms of direct Crown liability, to begin with, the Government would be liable for half of the design costs up to a maximum of $10 million. But following the signing of a building works contract that liability would rise potentially to the value of the concessions, which would be in excess of $400 million, as set out in clause 22 of the agreement. Also important is the reputational risk. If a Government is to be able to contract, other parties to that contract need to be able to trust that the Government will follow through. Subsequent cancellation of a contract of this magnitude would mean that other parties would be less likely to contract with the Government in the future, or price in that risk. I am pleased, therefore, that that member and others on this side of the House will not be supporting the repeal bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe39e7a996c747e3a4c11ed070b44e92\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that Mr Seymour was in support of my bill until, one, he saw the polling in Northland, and, two, he received a phone call\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc3e3e236e7d4b398522bbb7e4871894\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No, there is no ministerial responsibility for the bill in that question. If the member wishes to ask a question that relates to the ministerial responsibility I will accept it. The way it is phrased at the moment it will be ruled out of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225be68b9cedd04f3d9d591c6f937d1f05\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can I rephrase the question to meet the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f8f422b774548f7944c1a80b58a5f04\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have given the opportunity for the member to rephrase it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd2afc6bc12d4d80b0731fd7ab9888ca\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. Can the Minister confirm that Mr Seymour was in support of my bill until he received a phone call from the Minister himself?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e34b38b8a7b4d3c93f3b1938f3c9ee8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The question is not in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221356ce4a32724bf397e3ad6c30802ff4\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In the Minister\u2019s answer he introduced the bill and said that the ACT Party member was supporting it. It is perfectly reasonable for a follow-up supplementary question to address the answer that the Minister gave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c69a5ae8ea8e477ab9dfbfa49cf71442\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will listen again to the question. The way it was phrased, in my mind, I have made absolutely the correct decision. There must be a ministerial responsibility. If the member can relate it to the ministerial responsibility, then I will accept the question. I am trying to assist the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d05f17b5eddd4dca8f2fd7e3d17a332f\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b12209eddc2241b2b1bdf77d312989da\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224bc99c009bb40319b66be76777ba5d9\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm whether he has seen any reports indicating Mr Seymour\u2019s support of the bill until he received a call from the Minister himself, pressuring him to change his position?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2f3c586bad54f72a74c707c17199f77\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. There is absolutely no ministerial responsibility\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253fb1574cba445a1ac9f418a106b9d14\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I listened to the question. It is a very easy question for the Minister to address. The Minister was asked whether he had seen any reports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e599a84aa04e41b78949b354d6d874eb\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have seen reports. I am not sure that I could verify those reports, exactly; they were from a media outlet. But I have seen the reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0635daadb3145de8dee1f13332f1683\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain why he and the questioner, David Seymour, are now asserting the sanctity of contract law around my bill, in light of the fact that Skycity has already indicated that it is in breach of a core platform of this particular contract? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264891f20b3aa4fe29b869ef3a22eba5d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister did not hear the question I can get it repeated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9853a6cab27471c8149b92ccbb7615d\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure that that member is correct. What I can tell her, though, in relation to her bill, is that she does say at the outset of her bill, I understand through the press release, that she is very keen to minimise costs to taxpayers. I agree with her that that is important, but the simple reality is that the bill that she is proposing would actually dramatically increase costs to taxpayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce453b4a09814fe2b2387d2d185c8454\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that it was he who negotiated this contract, which included clause 22, and whether it will cost the New Zealand taxpayer more or less than they have paid for the Novopay contract debacle he was supposed to be fixing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b496d75af4047f2bef76ed75bd2809c\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I did not personally negotiate the contract with Skycity. I did sign the contract on behalf of the Government, and I can confirm that the Skycity contract as constructed says quite clearly that the concessions are in response to the construction of the New Zealand International Convention Centre, and as such it would be considerably cheaper than the Novopay contract signed by the previous Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222169eccd91b8448e95b317488922c272\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: What can we learn about the role of Governments in commercial enterprises, and has the Minister seen any reports of other parties proposing such enterprises in their manifestos recently?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a9ee45b13ca4a0eaaa9d4b56929f65c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the\u2014[Interruption] Order! The first part of the question can be answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022998e735ac5134b219a96776f2342308b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I think Governments should always be careful in their involvement with commercial enterprises and be seeking to transfer the risk to, for example, the private sector, as has been done, for example, in the ultra-fast broadband contract that is being supported by this Government. That has transferred the risk to the private sector and resulted in a very competitive development of ultra-fast broadband in this country, as compared with, for example, Australia, where the taxpayer took on the commercial risk and it has cost masses and masses of billions of dollars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022525667d9bbf0448e82d7341be112473f\u0022\u003EBusiness Research and Development\u2014Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022 data-id=\u002275875062aff64b869cf21da8b35538d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275875062aff64b869cf21da8b35538d5\u0022\u003EPAUL FOSTER-BELL (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Science and Innovation: What is the Government doing to grow business-led research and development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00224feed601fd6a466c90d637827d81793f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224feed601fd6a466c90d637827d81793f\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Science and Innovation):\u003C/span\u003E Recently the Prime Minister and I announced that, as part of Budget 2015, the Government will invest an additional $80 million in research and development growth grants over 4 years, to encourage more private sector research and development and grow New Zealand\u2019s research and development ecosystem. Research and development growth grants are non-discretionary and meet 20 percent of the cost of an eligible firm\u2019s research and development programme. To qualify, they must commit to spending at least $300,000 and at least 1.5 percent of revenue a year on research and development, conducted in New Zealand. The new funding is equivalent to a 14 percent increase in Callaghan Innovation\u2019s total research and development grants budget, and contributes to the almost $1.5 billion the Government will be spending and investing in science and innovation in the coming financial year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cf11e4389b945b2bb2f351a66310a10\u0022\u003EPaul Foster-Bell\u003C/span\u003E: How does investing more in business-led research and development further diversify the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee3fabd4fb004672a414ae7858028801\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Research and development growth grants are a crucial part of our efforts to boost levels of private sector research and development in New Zealand and lift innovation. A strong emphasis on research and development helps to diversify and strengthen the New Zealand economy and ensure our companies maintain competitiveness internationally. This is borne out by the range of industries investing more in research and development in New Zealand these days. The top two industries, by value, in 2013-14 were manufacturing with 54 percent, and information and communications technology with 23 percent, of the research and development growth grants funding. This compares favourably with countries where research and development tax credits are in place and where the research and development tends to simply match the profile of existing industries\u2014for example, in Australia, where mining and financial services are apparently the most innovative industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aff2b1f0dcb4a7d90f43f989f75d927\u0022\u003EPaul Foster-Bell\u003C/span\u003E: What examples has he recently seen of New Zealand companies growing internationally through their investment in research and development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f60a4884f2904f8aae18d525f94a2b60\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Hundreds of New Zealand companies are now succeeding on the world stage through their research and development, in many cases supported by Callaghan Innovation. For example, just last week I was privileged to be in Latin America and officially open the new Sao Paulo offices for growth grant recipient Tait Communications, which is succeeding very well in Latin America. [Interruption] I also visited research and development project grant recipient ADInstruments from Dunedin, which is doing a great job producing data acquisition and analysis systems for the life sciences industry, and is expanding its presence in South America. The success of these and other innovative Kiwi companies around the world is lifting New Zealand\u2019s export revenue and growing jobs and incomes for Kiwis, including for people from Dunedin, Mr Clark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7e8afa19cfb474490784d57c3c4c369\u0022\u003EGovernment Financial Position\u2014Return to Surplus\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00229294aef422ed429ca1ffd852d332e6d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229294aef422ed429ca1ffd852d332e6d3\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement in relation to achieving a surplus that it is like \u201Clanding a 747 on a pinhead\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b40d1c9fed0242499c912c498bcc6656\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b40d1c9fed0242499c912c498bcc6656\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, because history shows that fiscal forecasts and out-turn move around quite substantially. For example, in Budget 2008 the then Minister of Finance was forecasting a $1.3 billion operating balance before gains and losses surplus in 2008-09. As it turned out, he left the Government books in deficit by $3.9 billion that year, and Treasury told us that we faced never-ending deficits under the previous Government\u2019s policies. So, yes, forecasts can move around a lot, but this Government is making good progress on fixing up the hash of it that Labour made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af7b6d26519f4770a8bf7d79d091c219\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he trying to minimise the importance of achieving a surplus this year, when he has made it a core part of his Government\u2019s credibility for the past 4 years; why can he not just admit he has failed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224826815ab8bd4bcb92ae69b2ce4123c3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: We are not trying to minimise it. We are pointing out that there are a number of factors that make it a little bit trickier\u2014and that is, for instance, that inflation is so much lower, which is great for consumers, and that there are a number of areas where there has been a re-evaluation by Treasury. But if we just take a step back for a moment and say that in 2011 what the deficit was, the answer was $18.4 billion. The Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update forecast for this year\u2019s deficit is $585 million. I will point out that every single attempt to either raise revenue or cut expenditure by this Government has been opposed by the Labour Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dce48e36d20485c9fcb4e41e101a1c6\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that he would now likely be on track to surplus if his Government had not spent $36,000 on sending Ministers to Northland, had not wasted tens of millions of dollars on Novopay, had not lost hundreds of millions of dollars in dividends due to the asset sales, and was not blowing the Budget on everything from charter schools to Inland Revenue Department computers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231a1bf795781477aa8780ab94e798b29\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No. I will point out that Novopay was something that came along under the previous Labour Government. When it comes to the hundreds of millions of\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022257754161eb24656b804d7bff49e1be6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I cannot hear the answer with that sort of noise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266ad3e01c75141fea630d2a95efd4371\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: When it comes to the hundreds of millions of dollars more that we might have got under the mixed-ownership model, that was money that was literally blown by the reckless policies of Labour, so firmly rejected by the New Zealand public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a64033ca3fe64412b0909ad47cca3075\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he say that low inflation is to blame for his failure to reach surplus, when low inflation saves the Government money just as it saves the taxpayers from paying more tax; why does he always greet failure with excuses rather than fronting up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b31a7a2887774c9c930af16fa0d2d59f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am hugely fearful that the Leader of the Opposition is getting his economic advice from Grant Robertson. He needs to go and read a decent speech on economics, and he would see one from the Minister of Finance where he quite accurately pointed out that because of lower inflation over the next 4 years, the Government\u2019s revenue will be $15 billion less and the tax revenue the Crown receives will be $4.5 billion less. Low inflation is great for consumers, great for business; it just ain\u2019t great for Government revenue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6286e17ce6e4602b799d52a96e9632a\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: When will he admit that his Government acting as a bystander at the dairy auctions rather than building a more diverse economy is the real reason his economic promises are falling away as fast as the milk price?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dbee36a259c4bf48091bd080ee1dce6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know whether I misinterpreted the question from the Leader of the Opposition, but he seems to be saying that the Government should be in there buying milk powder in the auction. If he is, that is an interesting use of Government resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223fbe95758c9e422f9f77fd6428c93f72\u0022\u003EBudget 2015\u2014Employment Standards\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022 data-id=\u0022375883bfc2ac435c97b2bcec5f4b6bef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022375883bfc2ac435c97b2bcec5f4b6bef\u0022\u003ESARAH DOWIE (National\u2014Invercargill)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: How will Budget 2015 help strengthen compliance with minimum employment standards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f08f3b8122ad456eab3c498f9d1975e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f08f3b8122ad456eab3c498f9d1975e4\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Today I announced that Budget 2015 will invest $32 million more over 4 years to support employment relations services to help strengthen compliance with minimum standards. It will boost the labour inspectorate, strengthen education and information services, and address breaches of employment law. The funding will see six new labour inspectors for Auckland, building on last year\u2019s Budget, which funded six more in Christchurch. The latest boost shows that the labour inspectorate staff numbers comprise a 57 percent increase on the size of the 2008 inspectorate that this Government inherited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e839841766114c2da95935152563ef5a\u0022\u003ESarah Dowie\u003C/span\u003E: How does this announcement build on other work the Government is doing in this area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022988db784cdc244069a76cf3455b65a01\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: This funding will support the recently announced package of measures to strengthen the enforcement of minimum employment standards, including tougher sanctions. A bill to put these measures in place is expected to be introduced mid-year. It also follows the passing last week of the Immigration Amendment Bill (No 2), which imposes heavy penalties on employers exploiting migrant workers including 7 years\u2019 imprisonment and a $100,000 fine, or deportation. This Government is committed to protecting the integrity of the labour market and ensuring fair and productive workplaces. Budget 2015 will provide an excellent example yet again of that commitment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022293c1f979c894f3fb62e2e0a6382f1ff\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: How will the fact that he has allowed migrant workers to work in New Zealand for 6 months without the protection of New Zealand employment law, and supports labour inspectors being told to \u201Cbutt out\u201D when they try to enforce the Minimum Wage Act, impact the ability of the six extra labour inspectors to strengthen minimum employment standards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220487d8aab8d54276b45b45a16742407d\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, it is the Minister of Immigration who has allowed those workers to come in under special purposes, but I stand by the labour inspectorate\u2019s investigation into the welfare of those workers. Their welfare has been well supported, and I accept that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cad1ced5de63406dbf3de7a98fe97801\u0022\u003EHousing Market\u2014Auckland\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u002236d256bee1544f4bba0b4924960b55fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236d256bee1544f4bba0b4924960b55fe\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002229aca1e31fa848839a0b7b455bde2fe1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229aca1e31fa848839a0b7b455bde2fe1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they were made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f7c83980908448f9ecb31779883eed1\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: As the Minister is happy to have the problems of success, as he told the The Nation television programme on the weekend, could he tell the House whether it is a mark of this Government\u2019s success that the homeownership rate is at its lowest since 1951, and whether he is happy about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227a375a68c43444dacb2be05ae538a33\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I know the Greens do not like any kind of economic success; they regard it as an attack on the environment. But we think that on balance it benefits most people, so, yes, in answer to your first question, we are happy to have the problems of success. Secondly, with regard to homeownership rates, the member may not be aware of the HomeStart programme, launched on 1 April\u2014I hope he is advising his constituents about it\u2014which will assist particularly young New Zealanders into homeownership. The steady decline in homeownership since the late 1950s tells us, I think, a bit more about demographic change\u2014the change in the nature of households and so on; particularly, say, for instance, in the fast growth in the sole-parent household\u2014and is probably a stronger explanation than some others that the member has in mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6423af7aebe48d794d42cbe736ab9a0\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Is it another mark of this Government\u2019s success that the median house price in Auckland has now reached $753,500, with an average sale of more than $800,000, and is he happy about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289647f148fd04ecc81379fa4b0537f4d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not happy about it, and I am particularly unhappy with the kind of planning approach that the Greens advocate, which is part of the cause of the rapid escalation in house prices. The Greens have advocated anti-growth and anti-densification policies for years. They have been far too influential, and that is cutting low and middle income Aucklanders out of the possibility of decent housing or of owning their own house. I hope that the Greens will change their views and help us to change the Auckland Council\u2019s views so that we can allow Auckland City to grow and to have affordable housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c555de0df344d4899a7953228de9559\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a problem of this Government\u2019s success that its housing accord partner, the Auckland Council, has put the building of 2,000 to 3,000 supposedly fast-tracked homes on hold around Huapai because the Government refuses to properly fund much-needed transport links to this area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253b049d970ca453ea5165f5e2fcc9af0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure that there will be ongoing discussion with the Auckland Council, but my understanding is that, quite independent of the Government, it appears at least to have reduced its own infrastructure budget at a time when the city is under pressure to grow. That is a wee bit hard to understand, and I am sure we can have further productive discussions with the city, but it should be clear\u2014as the Greens should be clear\u2014that the long-term answer to affordable housing in Auckland is more houses on the ground, faster, and the Government will relentlessly focus on that objective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022181da279ba0449c48208208a046322dd\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a problem of success for this Government that the Auckland Council is actually caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to housing, with Auckland ratepayers being the rock, and working with this Government being the extremely hard place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022503b79623b744fa3acbbd0b90ff42b2a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Auckland Council would not have to work with the Government if it built enough houses fast enough for the people who want to go to Auckland and pay rates. But it is also caught with dealing with community groups fostered and encouraged by the Greens to oppose new building of houses in Auckland communities when we need them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc66d72224f84e9598902176ec533c60\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Does it make the Minister happy that he and his Government wilfully ignore the advice of organisations such as the OECD and the Reserve Bank and rule out introducing a capital gains tax to curb property speculation, which is driving up house prices in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cba1b6e45cca41c4a3f5121ea10d1461\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member may be aware that New Zealand already has tax law that taxes gains from speculation, as if it is income, at the marginal income tax rate. So, no, I am not unhappy to be considering OECD or Reserve Bank advice and not necessarily taking it, because what we have discovered in this whole process is that planning law\u2014such as that advocated by the Greens\u2014that tries to restrict the growth of Auckland creates inequality for low and middle income households that cannot afford housing, and it creates very high and volatile house prices. We will continue to work hard to undo the damage of the previous 20 years, when that philosophy was put in place. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eafcd5287ab14c5ca0a0b451190e7871\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] I am just waiting for Mr Twyford. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fe7d11697744608a10dd59d10a1996e\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not insulting to tell young Aucklanders who are desperately trying to buy a house and are being outbid at auctions week after week by property speculators that this Government\u2019s policies, which do absolutely nothing to address the demand side of the housing market, are a success?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218e6c0dfafe54228a67984d15528f17d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: What would be insulting to tell young Aucklanders is the Greens saying to them that they should have cheap houses but the Greens are opposed to roads, to cars, to digging up the ground, to creating subdivisions, and to building houses. That is what is insulting to young Aucklanders. It is Labour and the Greens saying: \u201CYou should have cheap houses but you\u2019re not allowed to do any of the things that ensure that more houses get built faster.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022990b88bb637749578ec472658abf48ad\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My point of order is that that answer does not fulfil the requirements of the Standing Orders where ministerial answers are concerned. It was all about some other party\u2019s so-called stance\u2014totally irrelevant to the question being asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205727f94ecd648769457fe3484a1bc1b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On this occasion, when I consider the start of the question, \u201CIsn\u2019t it insulting\u201D, the Minister, I think, has addressed the question. It would have been helpful if he had not used it as an opportunity to attack the Green Party to the extent he did. I accept that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a98f050e279c45fd8b49ab5b104485d5\u0022\u003ESurgery, Elective\u2014Waiting Lists for Orthopaedic Services\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00228cd27ab1ec614e03b1618e492c68f93b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cd27ab1ec614e03b1618e492c68f93b\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Are New Zealanders who require elective surgery receiving it in a timely manner?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u0022418d4671dde6416d9eb16a05d89e7f79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022418d4671dde6416d9eb16a05d89e7f79\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, the number of elective surgeries has increased by 44,000 a year in the last 6 years under this Government\u2014a remarkable turn-round, given that elective surgeries fell by 2,000 between the years of 2000 and 2006. By doing more and more operations, the number of New Zealanders waiting over 6 months has reduced from nearly 7,000 New Zealanders in 2006 to a handful today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c74907342a441f993418287f2c104d9\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, why did Dr John Cullen, a highly respected clinical leader at Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board, tell the chief executive officer less than 1 month ago that in addition to raising the threshold at which people can get an operation that leads to clinical risk, \u201CThe situation is controlled by the use of a suspended list.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6f6c685044449c08fd0f393e2b1db0c\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: If any member reads that article in the New Zealand Herald on Saturday morning, they will know that Mr Cullen then retracted his statement. Over the last 6 years at Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board, elective surgery has increased by 51 percent. That is a total of 6,500 more operations every year, 21,000 extra operations for people in that district health board area in total, and we have delivered more than 13,000 more first appointments there. The answer to increased demand is to do more operations, and nationally we have done 44,000 more operations and delivered 50,000 more first specialist appointments\u2014a lot better than that person\u2019s record when she\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266ae3456777941a8b80961f40c84e2dc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a298562d4a94de9bab4f29e9dc9723d\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from Dr John Cullen, clinical leader, Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board, dated 10 April 2015, entitled \u201CAn impossible situation\u201D, setting out why the management of both elective and acute surgery is increasingly difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022add69c668d204c27a782a436a5563352\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The document has been described. It is a letter by Dr John Cullen. Is there any objection to that document being tabled? There is not. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247d9c4c84bf64e0c94823f8350d162fb\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Why did Dr John Cullen send an email to the chief executive officer of Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board on 10 April 2015 saying that the operations manager of orthopaedic surgery is concerned at the potential adverse publicity following the return of patients to their general practitioner even after they were given certainty for surgery?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265ac0da5426c4f38993ee9044ba90c9e\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: The member would have to ask Mr Cullen that, but he has actually since retracted his statement. What we do know is that those people who were sent back to their general practitioner went back because there was incomplete information in the referral, because more testing was needed, and also, very importantly, because surgery was not appropriate. This member is trying to make something out of nothing, but what remains is that we are doing more surgery at Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board and providing more appointments, whereas that member actually provided fewer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022411eac04825d4931a2cb9b062acc0313\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the email from Dr John Cullen dated 10 April 2015 raising concerns about sending patients back to their general practitioner after being given certainty\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022758e9b63427d4f5cab0aed9f0b89febf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Leave is sought to table that particular email. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ca3e43ea4454cf4b762ecbf6c8d3551\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that district health boards are either raising the threshold at which patients can get surgery or introducing measures such as suspended lists and patient pathways in an effort to meet the Government\u2019s targets, which are virtually impossible to meet with the financial resources they have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbc0d25afce04caa865f44f5a0ed8cd8\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Look, that is completely incorrect. The information I have is that there are no hidden lists. What I can tell you is that people go back to their general practitioner because surgery is not appropriate, because the referral is incomplete, or because they need more testing. But we are doing 44,000 more operations and 50,000 more appointments, so more surgery, more appointments\u2014a lot better than that member\u2019s record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9bd3ba54ef54208a10ee4dbd4641038\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Is another way to manage the waiting lists to refer patients back to their general practitioner, like the Taranaki District Health Board, which has increased the number of people refused an orthopaedic first specialist assessment by 142 percent under the last 3 years of this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206eb03ffbb794ee1a5d099eaaa12907c\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: What I do know is that that data is very incomplete. But what is a fact is that there have been 1,216 more electives performed in Taranaki under this Government and there has been a 5,000 cumulative increase in first specialist appointments, unlike when Annette King was Minister, when\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249b505e715414b4ca9c86abf52f8ea7e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member has completed his answer as far as I am concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a6293825d604c4d8563b20180fbe78f\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an Official Information Act release from the Taranaki District Health Board dated 19 March 2015 showing a 142 percent increase over the last 3 years of letters refusing first specialist appointments for people wanting orthopaedic surgery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb9552011a0e42c1acbee18bc96cd9e3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that particular Official Information Act release. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2e8749fb8b045f68d7bdf049aba4052\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document showing that we are doing 1,216 more electives a year in Taranaki and delivered\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237bb09aaed5f4cce8459c6c6a7c53856\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I need the source of the document and the date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9093fd8d86341f7a71e190c9ad99d9b\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: This is current information compiled by health officials. You will not find it anywhere else, so I suggest\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287962d2ffe7c4e7ebfb57e936ba7083f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Is it very recent information?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fdf7c30f9e640179c6652a058ec7d9f\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Very recent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224643443f0c914c0dbae2fddf01f52008\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will put the leave. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241ce867c45c340f7b81d1f9b908ffae6\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c42fe1e913407c866ff21884b3c51b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is very recent. That will do on this occasion. [Interruption] Order! The members themselves can decide. I will put the leave. Leave is sought to table this\u2014[Interruption] Order! Leave is sought to table this particular information from the Ministry of Health of a recent date. Is there any objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af7a59cd8c9c4238aba0fb02bfa5e181\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: It is compiled by health officials, including advisers, and the date is today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfd95b6297844fdf9d7903957fdea6a0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is of assistance. We have now dated it to be today. Is there any objection to it being tabled? There is none. It can be tabled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268a2d5a2f725477bb54ec5a676cfed14\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8e5ee3feef4413d8494fa26931fff41\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: You show yours and I\u2019ll show mine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229238d184e5794ead95091767ad5b8a14\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have no intention, I can assure you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002203c3ca39965845e9af25aadd01078e4c\u0022\u003ESign Language Fund\u2014Sign Language Week\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe842a15c56840af84234f9ad9d44449\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe842a15c56840af84234f9ad9d44449\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Disability Issues: How is the Government\u2019s investment in the New Zealand Sign Language Fund helping sign language users to promote and maintain the language during Sign Language Week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe5cdefdc7534a15822787b4e8849e62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe5cdefdc7534a15822787b4e8849e62\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (Minister for Disability Issues):\u003C/span\u003E Sign Language Week is a chance to celebrate one of New Zealand\u2019s official languages. It is a language that is spoken by over 20,000 Kiwis every day. The Government has invested $350,000 to raise awareness about this unique language during Sign Language Week 2015 and provide all New Zealanders with an opportunity to get involved and connect with the Deaf community. This is in addition to the $11 million the Government has invested over 4 years to support deaf children and their families by helping school-aged and preschool children learn sign language and provide more sign language support and tutors in schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022293308f422d245cdae1d8732a55be0fe\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How can New Zealanders take part in New Zealand Sign Language Week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dae6cb59f1241bba428e7e8beb0b3cb\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER\u003C/span\u003E: Hundreds of events are taking place across New Zealand this week. There are tours of galleries and museums with sign language interpreters, comedy shows, pop-up sign language cafes, and over 745 New Zealand Sign Language taster classes being available. Raising awareness of sign language helps the Deaf community and other users of the language to connect with all New Zealanders. I encourage us Kiwis to get out and give it a go. Happy Sign Language Week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002224f495fdf65b4cea976edbb508346129\u0022\u003EClimate Change\u2014Native Species\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022cabb6967413a480cbba2e4834682e1a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cabb6967413a480cbba2e4834682e1a5\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: Does she agree with Professor Mark Urban that New Zealand\u2019s indigenous species are at greater risk of extinction from climate change than species in many other parts of the world; and if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc9707d657e9425dbf566b37e408e262\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc9707d657e9425dbf566b37e408e262\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a3a50b092694176841efd11f4f5a1d3\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Has she ever tried to convince her Cabinet colleagues to protect our native species at risk of extinction from climate change by adopting policies that reduce New Zealand\u2019s emissions; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee1530e7d37e40ad8193ff39c06f153c\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: I have spoken to my Cabinet colleagues and caucus and this House on many occasions about the need to preserve and protect more of our endangered species. In terms of the climate change part of your question, that is best directed to the Minister for Climate Change Issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022047ea4dbc8ad444e91cff0a9f5ef32d5\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that if New Zealand contributes to a more than 2-degree warming of the planet by our emissions increasing by 50 percent over the next 10 years, as the Ministry for the Environment predicts, this will increase the extinction risk for our indigenous species?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6affabaa50a4389beb2e09b4a8e543c\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: I refute the so-called facts in that member\u2019s question and disagree with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7c7f360026d46c5ad3d3b29968b951e\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Well, how can the Minister, as the Minister of Conservation, stand by while climate change increases the extinction risk for our threatened species to 14 percent, as Mark Urban predicts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edc86d9215e14ebe82ac0824a90729c0\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: This Government and I as the Minister of Conservation are certainly not standing by. An example I would draw the member\u2019s attention to is the Battle for our Birds, which was a direct response to what happened with a masting\u2014that is, a very extensive seeding of the beech trees. Many people understand that the reason that triggers the mast of a beech forest is to do with temperatures. Warmer temperatures mean higher seeding, which means plague proportions of rats\u201425 million. We planned for that, we analysed it, and we unrolled a strategy called Battle for our Birds, which resulted in the successful turn-round of the decline of at least 12 of our native species. It was a highly successful campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d5cfade45b4a4fbbb30a1595ec9f3354\u0022\u003EGovernment Financial Position\u2014Return to Surplus\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0fd1e48f94a4261be4772c1b109bddb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0fd1e48f94a4261be4772c1b109bddb\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement that \u201Creturning to surplus and repaying debt are among the most important things the Government can do to ensure New Zealand can withstand future shocks and build a more competitive economy based on exports and new jobs\u201D; if so, will there be a surplus for the 2014/15 year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002239df4eb1b0dd4adea3e204e026374c97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239df4eb1b0dd4adea3e204e026374c97\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to his questions, yes, I do stand by my statement and, no, there will not be a surplus for that year. But I want to thank our public servants for their role in the very substantial progress the Government has made on getting back to surplus. They have worked hard to provide more for less, and despite the fact that for many public services there has been no new money, public trust in public services is higher than it has ever been\u2014certainly, it is higher than the period when the previous Labour Government was pouring cash into every service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e441d9ce7968413e91018c47be304c29\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, why did he make the promise to New Zealanders in September last year that No. 1 of his five fiscal priorities for the next 3 years was \u201CReturn to surplus this year and maintain surpluses over the next 3 years\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229961454fd98b494e8ebf4e03ea37fd05\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Because it still is our very high priority to get back to surplus. The analogy I used the other day was if you set out to lose 10 kilos and you lose 9.9 kilos, you are almost there, and we are almost there with the surplus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267bc431fa72b4519aa7680b57b51677d\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer from the Minister, if he was trying to lose 10 kilos to fit into a suit for his brother\u2019s wedding and he lost only 9.8 kilos, he still does not fit into the suit, and is that not a failure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253663d96dabb4670a085b51c054e1861\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264361e4f034d48c4aef514e25a40139c\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: He can just borrow one of yours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022163cd5ade30c499f84966c9039f87de1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. It was my niece\u2019s wedding and the suit was a bit tight, but I wish I had borrowed the member\u2019s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc4d4ee0e8a2418abd77eb4d22d16f2e\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, and as someone with some knowledge of weight loss in recent times, can the Minister finally admit that he has failed to meet the promise he made to New Zealanders at the last election to get into surplus this year, and will he finally ditch the excuses and front up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204edfa619691468588aa7c54012a1df4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There are no excuses. I mean, before Christmas the Government published the updated forecast, which showed a deficit. The member might have only just figured that out, but that was actually 6 months ago. So in 2014-15 we will not quite get to surplus. In 2015-16 and the following years, the member will just have to wait for the Budget. But we are on track. Actually, I have a much easier life than that member, who gets up in the House every day saying the surplus should be bigger, when all his caucus are saying that we should spend more money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229416b449c4a24fd69a4052fc2c9f1a49\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm Treasury reports that this Government will be in surplus every year from the mid-2020s for decades, and is that a greater priority than making surplus this year; if so, what is the Government doing about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff4a6488cc7f4c4680d7ea51c2e7a745\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Bill English\u2014any one of those three supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f87d87ca07314969af83d5c1d8e93ecd\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I admire the way the member makes us all look very \u201Cshort termist\u201D here. We are focusing on a surplus now, but the member is quite correct to have understood that the Government is making decisions, particularly around the way it is approaching long-term welfare dependency, that will be having an impact on surpluses in the 2020s. For instance, the number of sole parents under 20 has dropped by 40 percent in 3 years. New Zealand will be making savings because of that intervention for the next 20 or 30 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a100ac43aa81463fbdbc268c6ce61db0\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister guarantee a surplus for the 2015-16 year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ddbb0dc4a3e4481984d9db8ce714fea\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member will just have to wait for the Budget. But I can anticipate that in the Budget, whatever the operating balance is, the Government will be pointing out that these numbers move around according to economic conditions. What is under our control is Government expenditure, and that is certainly on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c22270a53764bb596928c1c620a9deb\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eed7670693a24635af1b34015a5e600b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Flag Referendums Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219be34061cab4a82adc62e2c58a15d11\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee: How many submitters on the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill have asked to be heard by the committee and of those how many has she requested to attend to give evidence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022426c597ae9ab45e78bf254de25443186\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022426c597ae9ab45e78bf254de25443186\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (Chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The committee has received 256 submissions on the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill, which includes one form submission. The committee has agreed to hear 34 oral submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022821c6b97dbbd4f7fa9168b1dcca003bc\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Did she, before she exercised her power to decide whether to call witnesses, read the submissions she has described as form submissions, to ensure that all former service personnel and individuals who had made distinct and different arguments are heard; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cf660b9998047b88b8d2f105aab6239\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: It is normal established committee practice to treat large volumes of submissions that are identical or nearly identical as form submissions. A sample representing these submissions is placed on the committee record as representing the views of all those who submitted in this way. This, by the way, is a process that has been followed for other bills, such as the marriage equality bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d524e54a4d3d43d0bf6613af85b81e8c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question, I think, was quite a simple one. It asked whether she read them. I do not think that was addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adab36bf351847979f177599065b3941\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member had made it a simple question like that, it might have been easier for the matter to be addressed. It was not as simple as that, but I will ask the member to simply answer whether she has read all of the form submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5e0abf0b15144468e13ed53f138ff7a\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: The committee treated some 1,500\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022129edbe4fb334bcd87f52758d117ede7\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Has she read them!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f6b9daffdc54ced9bbcab682825453e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233848dda3a4d45a0845885aac3fda758\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Will the member give me a chance to answer? The answer is I sampled, as did the clerk of the committee, a number of the form submissions. It was determined that the vast majority of those 1,761-odd submissions were either similar or essentially the same. That is why they were treated as form submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002263f4bdb1e1e2450cbf40e01f9f694714\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Flag Referendums Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ab2897217a84a17907272bfbecd54d7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee: How many submitters to the committee on the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill requesting a yes/no vote has she requested attend to give evidence out of those who made submissions on this point?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022619d1bcdab624d408125ee39b9c2530b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022619d1bcdab624d408125ee39b9c2530b\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (Chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The committee will be hearing from 34 submitters, a number of whom have indicated they will be speaking on the yes/no vote, and some of whom we heard from last week. We will also be hearing from that member, who will be speaking on his yes/no vote petition to the bill when the committee sits on Thursday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d21e108f0a334c1b8430a4648d9323aa\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Is there anything preventing her from exercising her power to request further submissions from the 747 individuals who have asked to be heard, including former servicemen, who have yet to hear from her to give evidence; if so, what is it that is preventing her from doing that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292c4e2ab6bd94de7ab104ea8f2c13558\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Either of those supplementary questions, Jacqui Dean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252f7f22b11e948138f67b7deaf6da7ec\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: It was the committee\u2019s decision not to hear oral evidence from those who submitted a form submission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f2e38fc31a4aa99ae78596780f3060\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your assistance. A member has conveyed to the House a decision that was made by the select committee, and that is in itself a question for you to consider. But she has also incorrectly conveyed that it was a decision made by the committee as a whole, when that was not the case. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e325dda2fec4de4bd65bf7d555a217b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member has raised a point of order. She knows very well the procedure if she feels an incorrect answer has been given in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0632d5025db4f60bc3f4d0ab1d295a3\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In light of the answer given by the chair of the committee, can I ask you to consider a ruling about whether it breaches privilege to pass that answer on to the submitters who are apparently not to be heard but have not been told?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223febd4ad522d45378f9c7212ce184085\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is asking me to give consideration to the question that was asked and the answer that was given. I will do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002263dacd0220b7434ca589dd1a8011310c\u0022\u003EHuman Rights Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002262b190716b0242e18a4b04cb985db3f5\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000252\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 26 March.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00223257bec90d234c7abc8bfa89dec173c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223257bec90d234c7abc8bfa89dec173c4\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a privilege and an honour to take the final call in the second reading of the Human Rights Amendment Bill before the House. This bill obviously amends the Human Rights Act 1993. It has two particular areas of purpose. The first is to enable the establishment of a full-time commissioner with responsibility for leadership in disability rights within the Human Rights Commission and the second is to make changes to the role and the structure of the commission to strengthen its performance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EPeople may not know that, actually, this was initiated on 20 October 2010. The Minister at that time was the Hon Tariana Turia. As the Minister for Disability Issues she announced the establishment of a full-time Disability Rights Commissioner within the commission, but to formally establish this role would indeed need an amendment to the Act. This provided an opportunity to review the structure of the Human Rights Commission and to explore options for change in three key areas: firstly, in the composition of the commissioners who were there in place in its status quo; secondly, the governance arrangements; and, thirdly, the functions and powers of the commission itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThere were 42 submissions that were made to the Justice and Electoral Committee and 19 oral submissions that were submitted. I would just like to take us through some of those submissions that I think are important and that also give weight to the recommendations that have been made by the Justice and Electoral Committee in particular. One of the areas was just in regard to one of the challenges of the improvements. In consultation with the commission and other Government agencies, the Ministry of Justice has identified some improvements that could be made to the composition. These were in regard to improving efficiency, the lack of effectiveness of the current composition of part-time commissioners, the inflexibility resulting from the way that specialised commissioners roles are provided for under the Act, and then, lastly, there sometimes being an unclear and incomplete description of the functions of the commissioners in the Act as it currently stands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThere are a number of things that I think are quite important in this legislation, especially for the disability community in particular. We know that New Zealand ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities on 25 September 2008. Article 33 of the convention requires States to \u201Cmaintain, strengthen, designate or establish within the State Party, a framework including one or more independent mechanisms, as appropriate, to promote, protect and monitor implementation of the present Convention.\u201D We believe that the review and these amendments will definitely go a way to approving that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EA full-time commissioner position with responsibility for leadership and disciplinary rights will be created within the commission, and we think this is quite critical. The creation of these roles requires an amendment to the Act, as it currently enables commissioners formalised leadership roles in only two areas: race relations and equal employment opportunities. The changes to these roles, we think, are going to be quite significant. The Act currently provides for full-time and part-time commissioners. This will be changed to permit a composition of three full-time commissioners, and then also up to five part-time commissioners who will be part of that composition as well. Although we are removing the statutory roles of the Race Relations Commissioner and the Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner, we are requiring commissioners to be appointed to lead the work in these areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI just want to quote from the departmental report from which we heard submissions, and, again, from the Chief Human Rights Commissioner himself. In 22 of those submissions they were in support, indeed, of having the establishment of a disabilities commissioner in particular. The Chief Human Rights Commissioner submitted that it is quite critically important to be addressing these issues for the disability community as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EConsultation with the Minister of Justice was also challenged. There was an issue in which we felt it would breach the Paris principles of independence of the Human Rights Commission. This was an issue of concern. In fact, 13 submitters opposed any reference to consultation with the Minister being included in this bill. Again, the Human Rights Commission actually submitted that this consultation with the Minister currently occurs at present, so, in effect, it was not seen that there was a breach, in fact, in regard to the Paris principles of independence for the human rights commissioners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThis bill will enable the chief commissioner to formally designate commissioners. We think this area here will then allow them to establish areas of importance that may be relevant in that current context in time for our communities. In some of the 42 submissions that were made there were references to, for instance, areas of the rights of women, and that potentially the Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner role could include looking at the rights and responsibilities for women under that as well. There was also another submission that talked about issues around the fairness in the Act around Treaty of Waitangi claims. That was another submission that was made. We feel that the amended changes will allow for the commissioner to be able\u2014with consultation on the strategic direction of the commission\u2014to potentially appoint part-time commissioners to this role as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThere was some concern that was expressed around the rebranding and existence of the specialised commissioners by removing the titles of the Race Relations Commissioner and the Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner, which may be perceived as lowering the profile of these particular areas of focus. We do not believe that the proposed changes will negatively impact on the commissioners\u2019 leadership role of protecting and promoting these particular areas of importance as well. There will be identified commissioners leading the work in each area, and the commissioner will be the face and the contact point in being able to negotiate these areas of importance as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EWe feel the recommendations that have been made adequately address the issues of the review plus the concerns. We feel, as a select committee, that our recommendations, approved by the Minister, are appropriate but also give both the flexibility and the clarity for the commissioner to conduct his roles and responsibilities. On behalf of the Government, I also do commend this bill to the House in its second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments recommended by the Justice and Electoral Committee by majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002272ecfaf9117f457e8f0f6cca8f1ccd74\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 73\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 12; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; M\u0101ori Party 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EQuestion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e6e88380e433407fadb000853172e90c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Human Rights Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 73\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 12; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; M\u0101ori Party 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b02a01963dfb438381534c6f74e67fea\u0022\u003EAnimal Welfare Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022803cea80e88847cb87b405609c9f0a77\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000266\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 30 April.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4c982522d1e4573944da93ae1bc60ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4c982522d1e4573944da93ae1bc60ef\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E When I was sort of rudely interrupted by the clock at 6 o\u2019clock last Thursday, I was indicating to the House that I thought that although Nathan Guy is a nice chap, he has been pretty ineffectual in this area. He has been very ineffectual in getting the resources necessary to have a proper and independent service that focuses on animal welfare particularly in the area of primary production. I think he relies on the Royal New Zealand Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals pretty heavily within domestic arrangements but what he does not have is a good force out on farms ensuring that the small minority of farmers who treat animals badly are dealt with properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI also indicated that the Government\u2019s approach to allow cruelty to animals to continue for another 15 years\u2014so practices that this Minister accepts are cruel and must go do not have to go for another 15 years\u2014in my opinion is just not good enough. As well as being cruel and wrong\u2014cruel and wrong\u2014those practices are not in New Zealand\u2019s economic interests. It is in the interests of our farmers for New Zealand to have a reputation of being world leading in farming production practices. Generally, most of our farmers are, but there are some whose practices are awful. They are generally\u2014but not only\u2014centred in the pork and the poultry industries. That is where the biggest problems come from. The most obvious problems come from there but we also have some very poor examples of farmers in some other areas as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EIf we want to grab hold of the opportunities, especially in Europe but actually in a number of other countries as well\u2014increasingly in the United States and even in parts of the middle class in Asia\u2014we need to be aware that there is more and more focus on the way we treat our animals in a way that is similar to the way that we treat our environment. If we are not seen to be world leading in this area, over a period of time we will go backwards. Unfortunately, it is often the fact that we mistreat our pigs that will end up being a problem for our sheep. The fact that we mistreat our poultry will end up being a problem for our beef offshore, because it is a country\u2019s reputation across all of the cruelty practices that is, in my opinion, very important. I am holding up now a sheet of paper that is the area that will be the area available to chooks, including size 18 and size 20 chooks, under National\u2019s new advanced 2022 rules. Under the rules that will come into effect then, a chook will have 750 square centimetres\u2014a tiny area. A decent chook will have trouble turning round. It might be a wee bit of progress, but, frankly, it is not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I want to thank again Mojo Mathers for the work that she did. I thank the Government for running out of other business so it could get on with getting this bill through. I say that eventually we are going to have to look at the real question and that is to allow all farmed animals the right to go outside. If we do not let all farmed animals have the right to go outside, we will be regarded as cruel and our exports will suffer. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022395a76781e15447f8a80810e11a8ffce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022395a76781e15447f8a80810e11a8ffce\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me no great pleasure to follow the expert on animals from Hutt South, Trevor Mallard. He clearly is an expert on the life and times of the moa but knows very little about farm animals, in my view. I want to make just a couple of comments on the comments he just made, because I think it is grossly unfair to include all farmers in the general statements that he just made. What I do want to make the point about is that the Ministry for Primary Industries has a very strong team out in the provinces. It has a great understanding of farmers and farmers\u2019 ability to handle livestock, and I am quite sure the ministry is well aware of where the challenges are for the farmers. I certainly admit that there are farmers who are not perfect but I also want to make the point that I think they do a pretty good job on the whole, and we certainly do our best to work within the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ENow I want to get back to the topic of the day, the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill. This bill is critical to New Zealand\u2019s future. I do agree with the previous speaker on that point. It is probably one of the most important bills that will come through this House, along with, perhaps, the biosecurity bill and one or two other bills, interestingly, that affect the primary production sector, because that is a sector that keeps this country going. They have a very strong underlying influence, I guess, on how New Zealand\u2019s economy works and how the primary production sector works. The economy is driven by agriculture, and it in turn is driven by these hugely important bills or Acts of Parliament that impact on a food industry that is worth some $40 billion to New Zealand, and a livestock industry that contributes a large bit of that $40 billion to the food industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EWe have amongst the best animal welfare codes in the world. We are very good practitioners in this field. I will talk a little bit more about the codes of animal welfare a little later, but first I want to get on to a number of other issues that, I guess, have challenged the Primary Production Committee during the course of this bill, which was in the select committee for quite some time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EWe dealt with household pets, for example\u2014and 70 percent of all households in New Zealand have pets. Gareth Morgan has picked on one very topical one: the cat. Most of our wild cats in New Zealand started off as household pets, perhaps even in Hutt South. They have been dumped in our rural parts of New Zealand, and, consequently, that is a large piece of what causes the major cat problem that Gareth Morgan frequently refers to. There are also, obviously, a large number of dogs as pets in New Zealand, and many other animals. I am not saying for a minute that households do not look after their pets pretty well\u2014I think that on the whole they do\u2014but they certainly come under pressure. The other challenge we have with those household pets is the large, large number of unregistered dogs\u2014dogs that cause all sorts of problems in New Zealand\u2019s communities. In fact, we see some quite horrific injuries caused by those dogs when they attack children, or even adults. Those are pets that have clearly not been maintained as they should be. They are also pets that come under the control of this very piece of legislation that we are talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI want to briefly mention the greyhound industry. The greyhound industry came in for a lot of focus in the course of discussion on this bill. Greyhound racing is, I guess, a sport. It also contributes to the New Zealand economy. It is challenged by the fact that when you breed an animal for performance, you do not always get the performance you anticipate. We have to find other ways of dealing with those. Greyhounds are clearly dealt with under the Animal Welfare (Dogs) Code of Welfare. So the issues that were raised by people with relationships to the greyhound racing industry are, in my view, satisfactorily dealt with in the Animal Welfare (Dogs) Code of Welfare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe other issue that is very topical is one of pests, and I guess you could put that in the same category as hunting. Pests\u2014all introduced, of course\u2014are possums, cats, stoats, rats, etc. Mice are also a significant pest. We spend an awful lot of time keeping them out of our food chain, keeping them out of places that we need to keep secure. We also have a great deal of problems with possums, particularly in our native bush and forest. Cats, stoats, and rats likewise cause grievous damage to our native birds. There was some quite significant discussion on those topics during the course of the consideration of this bill in the select committee, and I think, again, they are well dealt with under the relevant codes that apply to those issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand we farm some 45 million animals\u2014probably a lot more, in fact, but we have an official count of 45 million - odd. We dealt with numerous issues in respect of them, including\u2014and I am not counting birds and things like that, so I am not accounting for the poultry industry in that\u2014microchipping, tagging, ear-marking, horses\u2019 teeth, blacksmiths\u2019 operations, and all sorts of operations that take place on a daily basis in respect of animals. They were all dealt with in the course of the discussion on this bill. If I go to some of the things like horses\u2019 teeth\u2014which were, I guess, dealt with in the discussion around surgical procedures that are undertaken in respect of animals\u2014for a long time, very good practitioners with no qualifications have dealt with things like horses\u2019 teeth, and a number of other issues. In terms of blacksmithing, in some parts of the world you have to have a ticket to enable you to shoe a horse under their welfare codes. In my view, New Zealanders are a much more adaptable people. I think there are a large number of those procedures that can be undertaken extremely safely by people who have a great understanding of animals. So that came in for a lot of discussion in the course of this bill as well. I think we satisfactorily resolved that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI want to talk, briefly, about the live export of animals. Clearly, we have an understanding that there will be no live shipments for slaughter in New Zealand. We do, of course, sell a large number of horses overseas both for sport\u2014racing\u2014and for other uses. We sell a large number of breeding animals\u2014sheep, dairy cattle\u2014overseas for the same reason. I guess that if you look at the food trends of the world, it is quite conceivable that sometime in the future there will be an opportunity to export very small numbers of very high-priced animals for slaughter\u2014well, I would not call it slaughter; I guess there will be a more practical term they will use for it. By the time they get to that point, there will be a more practical term. And we did not, during the course of this consideration, outlaw the potential for live export of animals; it is just that we have an understanding in this country that we will not do it, and I think wisely so. But there may well come a time in the future when we can in fact export for human consumption again, in a smaller and, I guess, much more enlightened way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI want to talk about codes of welfare for a moment. I have here the Dairy Cattle Code of Welfare. Anyone who was concerned about the activities of \u201CNAWAC\u201D, the National Animal Welfare Advisory Council, which produced the codes of welfare for the Minister for Primary Industries, will realise that these things are hugely comprehensive, in my view. I think this is a very good document. I would have considered, I suppose, that as a farmer I do not need this kind of stuff, but I think, unfortunately, we do need to set a standard. These codes of welfare set a very clear standard, and I think they do a great job. There was some significant discussion around the make-up of the National Animal Welfare Advisory Council. The Minister has the ability to appoint those members, and I think not only are they a very broad cross-section of the New Zealand animal-industry experts but also there are some independents on the council who are very competent people. I think it is more than adequate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI just want to talk very briefly about the Minister and the select committee. Obviously, as I have said, this bill is a very important part of what we do. It has been around for a while. In fact, four of the select committee members who dealt with this bill have left this House: Shane Ardern, Eric Roy, Colin King, and Shane Jones. They added a whole lot of value to this bill in the course of it. And, of course, the current committee, of which most are in this House right now, were also on that committee last year, with the exception of a couple of new members on our side of the House, and the man sitting in the Speaker\u2019s Chair himself, Deputy Speaker Chester Borrows. We have considered 1,721 submissions in the course of this bill, including 12 industry groups, 20 advocacy groups, and eight professional bodies. It was a pretty big job. I think that on the whole the committee did an outstanding job with this bill, and I am very pleased to see it coming through. I congratulate the Minister on getting what will be one of New Zealand\u2019s key pieces of legislation through the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00220f8e465ee3b54e399c5137a9bfc4cca8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f8e465ee3b54e399c5137a9bfc4cca8\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E I must say that, despite being a longstanding member of the Primary Production Committee\u2014of which the previous speaker, Ian McKelvie, is, of course, the chair\u2014I did actually stand aside for the Hon Trevor Mallard, who takes the role of animal welfare within our caucus. So I was not there for a number of the hearings, but I have followed this very closely, because, as has previously been said by speakers, this does go to the heart of New Zealand\u2019s production systems. As a passionate advocate for primary industries, I know the things that we need to protect, starting, of course, with biosecurity and food safety. Animal welfare probably comes third in terms of the hierarchy of the things that we need to uphold, both in a reality sense and in a reputational sense, because if New Zealand is to continue to export food, then the people who have to pay\u2014or should pay\u2014a little bit more for quality food want to know that it has been grown and produced ethically. Indeed, this piece of legislation moves us forward some way in that area. So Labour will be supporting it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIt is an interesting time because we have a society that is becoming further disconnected from the realities of production. They want meat but they do not want slaughter, and this bill is one more realistic step to address the issues, to minimise any potential harm to animals, but to still leave in place the reality that animals are grown and produced for slaughter. There will be some who are vegan and who do not want to eat that. That is true and that is their right. The vast majority of people in the world need protein, and we produce it. We produce it in a very sound and ethical way, in a safe way, and in a way that does minimum harm to the animals in the system for the most part. We want to continue with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe are making technical changes with the bill. We are addressing some tricky issues like the use of animals in the area of experimentation, and I will say a little bit more about that later. Not only is there a dilemma across society around wanting meat but not wanting it to come from a slaughter process; they also want cheap meat and cheap food\u2014but, of course, they do not necessarily want to deal with the reality that we have to have commercial systems of production that some say are factory. By international standards, most of New Zealand\u2019s systems are pretty much organic. Indeed, if you look at the sheep grazing out in the Mackenzie Country, you would see that they are as close to the basic first step in the evolutionary process as you could imagine\u2014freedom to roam and handled probably two or three times a year. New Zealand is blessed with systems that are as close to ideal as you can get, but there are, in some areas, systems\u2014particularly in the area of egg production, poultry production, pork and, increasingly, in the area of dairying\u2014that are getting to the point of intensity, where the public are asking whether there is a better way than the ways that have been conducted over recent years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe National Animal Welfare Advisory Committee, the organisation referred to by the previous speaker, Ian McKelvie, is an independent organisation set up to address these quite challenging ethical areas in an appropriate and independent way. I think it does a very, very good job. We have got the issues of colonies and cages for poultry, what size they should be, and what the normal range of behaviours for those chickens is. What has happened over recent years is we have moved\u2014as a country and through legislation\u2014to expand the areas in which chooks live to give them more movement and to give them more freedom. My colleague the Hon Trevor Mallard says that just about all those animals should have the right to go outside. We have some systems like that in the country but not all of them. If we were to move to those systems within a set period of 2, 3, 4, or 5 years, then there would be a cost to the consumer and the producer, and some might say that that is a perfectly reasonable cost. There is a reality, of course, in a low-paid economy, particularly under a National Government that seems to like zero-hour contracts, that people cannot afford to pay for that food. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere are transitional provisions here, and the exceptions and the extensions to what are deemed not ideal conditions are necessary to allow that transition to occur in a commercially realistic way. I think we have to accept that\u2014well, some of us or perhaps my colleague is more reluctant to. Some of us see that as a normal and sensible transition. But the reality for New Zealand, as the producer of fine-quality food, is that we will have to move in that direction\u2014that is, with eggs, poultry, and pork. I think those industries have accepted that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe difficult issue of dairying is one that is yet to be resolved because of some Europeans, I have to say, in reality, who have come into this country and think they know how to show us how to milk cows. They want to put all the cows inside in an intensive, housed farming system. I would suggest that they are not making money this year at the payout from Fonterra, so it might clip their wings and their enthusiasm. That intensive system, despite having some advantages over effluent management, does move a long way from the pastoral system that we have known\u2014and if not perfected, certainly developed well\u2014and that has been the hallmark, I guess, of our production systems. So dairying is heading in the other direction at a time when other sectors are moving to a less intensified system that provides the animals with a bit more scope, a bit more freedom, and, I guess, the range of natural movement, as deemed. I think we have to warn the dairying industry here that when moving down that path, it has to be very cautious about what that might mean to New Zealand\u2019s brand reputation. It is not something I think we should encourage. The costs of production simply climb to the point where we are at risk of years of low payout, where those farmers\u2014and more if they get encouraged into those systems\u2014will go broke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI come back to the legislation. It does include some good objectives. One in particular that I quite like is that there will be encouragement for the labelling of animal products that creates a commercial incentive for improved animal welfare standards. That is a value proposition for those people who are moving their production systems to a better one for animal welfare, and it should be labelled, it should be identified, and the consumers should know, if they are going to pay a bit more for the food, why they are doing so. Why, then, does the National Government not endorse country-of-origin labelling for other foods? Why will it not buy into that? I suggest it is because the supermarkets, its mates, will simply bully it into avoiding that. The fact is that we have trans-Tasman standards. Australia buys into country-of-origin labelling and New Zealand does not. So although this legislation encourages labelling for better animal welfare standards, which I think is a good thing, there is nothing from the Government to say that they should identify where the food was produced in the first place. So it is quite a bizarre contradiction in the legislation that once this is passed, we will be encouraging labelling on the one hand and, in fact, avoiding it on the other hand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAs I said, the extension that was proposed under the legislation will now be closed down. In transitioning from the current standards to better standards of animal welfare and production systems, the reality is that we must allow that transition to occur. If they were chopped off, that would be unrealistic, uneconomic, and, indeed, undesirable for many of the consumers across the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAll in all, I think this is a good piece of legislation. The question I would like to ask at the end of this is around John Key calling in to Saudi Arabia and, we are told, having discussions about the renewal of the live export trade to that country. I have not heard too many people asking for that or thinking that it is a good thing, other than the Prime Minister perhaps promising his Saudi counterpart that we will get this under way. So I think it is incumbent upon the Government and the Prime Minister to answer the question: are we going to resume live exports for slaughter or not? Although there was a hint from the previous speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022146db479c9e0416b99b454e36af9b9cf\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dc7fca27f81415cbce917886a7e5ea7\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: No. Well, as the Minister for Primary Industries has said no, that is good. It is good to hear that, because I do not think there is any benefit, and I am pleased to hear him say that. So I hope he tells the Prime Minister, his boss, that it is no good kidding the Saudi Arabians that we might get a renewal of that trade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe last thing I would say is that we do not agree with animal testing for cosmetics. Indeed, it is pleasing to see, as the father of five daughters, that cosmetics and make-up are kind of on the way out. I think that is great. It will save me a fortune. Out of all the women around here, I do not see one who needs those cosmetics, and, indeed, we do not need the animal testing to try to improve them. This is a wise piece of legislation but the Government has got to follow through on what it says it is doing here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbae82ba576f46f6b574a59a73cf4a01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbae82ba576f46f6b574a59a73cf4a01\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak on the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill. I was one of the new members to the Primary Production Committee and unfortunately did not go through any of the process with this bill, so I commend the members of the select committee for the fine job that they have done. Agriculture underpins our economy\u2014in fact, it pays for our way of life. We would not enjoy the same standard of living that we enjoy now if it were not for cows and sheep, in particular. So I think to a large extent we ride on their backs in terms of our economic well-being. Agriculture earns $25 billion from livestock and it contributes to our economy. So it is absolutely huge in terms of New Zealand\u2019s gross national product. I use the term gross national product deliberately. Too often we focus on GDP. Actually, \u201CGNP\u201D is how we pay our way in the world\u2014and that term means \u201Cgross national product\u201D, for anyone who is not familiar with that term. I think that I would like to see a lot more focus on that term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EAnimal welfare is absolutely vital, but I think that People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals are currently running a campaign in Australia that does their cause no good. In their latest campaign they claim that 25 percent of the world\u2019s wool is grown in Australia and that it is made from 100 percent cruelty. That is just a ridiculous statement. I agree wholeheartedly with the Victorian Farmers Federation, which said that the campaign denigrates, offends, belittles, and insults every Australian\u2019s intelligence. I think that although we care very deeply about animal welfare, to take it to that level in a campaign really just runs the risk of putting everyone offside from that organisation\u2019s particular argument. If you keep running into a crowded theatre calling \u201CFire!\u201D, people will not listen to you for very long after that. So I think that they are not doing themselves any good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is, in fact, ranked first equal in the world for animal welfare, and that is fantastic. It is great, but that does not mean that we should rest on our laurels; we should always attempt to improve. I think that trade is so vital. The previous speaker, Damien O\u2019Connor, mentioned that we are a trading nation, we are a niche producer, we sell into niche markets, and we actually command a premium for our products. The fact that people who buy our products are paying a little more than they pay for those they buy from others is based around things like our animal welfare. They do care about that. It is not something that they necessarily do a lot of research on, but if it comes up, they certainly do care about it. Although animal welfare has not been a big issue in Asia\u2014and the Asian market is becoming an increasingly important market for lots of our goods\u2014over time we have seen a distinct change in values around the environment in Asia, and I believe we will see the same thing with animal welfare. So it is incumbent upon us to have really good rules around that, and this bill really does go a long way towards that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESixty-eight percent of New Zealand households own a pet. Although most of our talk and focus has been on farm animals, by numbers of population most people\u2019s contact with animals is with the family pet, and we should not forget that in this discussion. As my colleague said earlier, dogs not only damage humans, which we often see when there is a dog attack, but they also attack other dogs quite often, and are often trained to be vicious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThis bill deals with a lot of those issues and I commend the Primary Production Committee and the Minister for Primary Industries for dealing with it in that way. This bill seeks to amend the Animal Welfare Act 1999. It brings a higher degree of transparency to the Act, and I think that is much needed. It has a much greater enforceability, it increases the range of enforcement tools, and, in fact, it brings in more appropriate penalties. I think that is really important because we too often see well-meaning Acts of Parliament with little enforceability or inappropriate penalties. If people do offend, then they deserve to feel the full weight of the law, and we need to make sure that it really is a deterrent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe bill provides a framework for suitable regulations, and the Minister, at their discretion, is able to bring in regulations as things change. Over time, attitudes to animal welfare change considerably. We have just gone through the Anzac Day celebrations. One hundred years ago 10,000 horses went off to the First World War. I can guarantee to you that the attitude to animal welfare 100 years ago was considerably different from what it is today. Not many of those horses came back and the way in which they were disposed of is perhaps best not focused on too much these days. Those things would not happen in the New Zealand of today under the current rules, and the rules are tightened further still under the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe issues that this bill tackles are complex, and I commend the select committee for the work it did on this. It is not easy to deal with these complex issues, but we are not elected to do the easy things; we are elected to make good law and do things that are sometimes a bit tough. I actually commend both the Minister, in particular, and also the select committee for tackling these things head-on and dealing with them in the way that they did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI think it is worth noting that not all New Zealanders\u2014in fact, very few New Zealanders\u2014actually deal with farm animals or have any link with farms. Going back only a few generations, most New Zealanders had a direct link to a farm through their family or good friends. Nowadays most people probably do not have any interaction with farms at all. Farmers deal with animals every day, and the reality of dealing with animals every day is quite different from the interaction that people have with a pet. Often, seeing what goes on in a farm can be upsetting for some people. A sheep being shorn, for example\u2014although the sheep does not actually relish the process, it really enjoys getting the wool off its back when it gets outside. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESurgical and painful procedures were covered, and these were alluded to earlier in the process. I have had some feedback from veterinary surgeons in my electorate who were concerned about the docking of tails on dogs. In particular, those surgeons did not want to see the law changed because they felt that some dog owners would take that procedure on themselves rather than doing it through a veterinary surgeon with adequate anaesthesia and sterile conditions. Although I have some sympathy with their position, the reality is that we do not like that sort of procedure in New Zealand and it has really got to end. We do have to draw a line in the sand somewhere, and I am pleased to see that that line has been drawn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThere are 16 codes of animal welfare issued under the Animal Welfare Act and developed by the National Animal Welfare Advisory Committee. Those codes are being strengthened by new regulations, which I alluded to earlier. I think it is really important that the regulations will have some teeth rather than just being codes. I think that that is a fantastic innovation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThere has been some talk about factory farming, and I really just want to mention a little bit about that. If we do rush into banning so-called factory farming in terms of how we treat hens and farrowing crates, etc., there will be a cost. The cost will be borne by the consumer, and all we will likely see is consumers switching to cheaper products that have come in from offshore, and you are simply shifting the animal welfare issue out of this country and into another country. In terms of the animals you are not really making any difference whatsoever. You may be salving your conscience but you are not helping animal welfare. I think it is sensible to have a good lead-in time. Patoa Farms, which is New Zealand\u2019s biggest pork producer, processes 2,000 pigs a week, so it is a significant producer. It does not in fact use farrowing crates, but it has taken some time for it to develop that process, and it will take the rest of the industry some time to catch up with those practices. I think it is quite right and proper that we give them some time to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWild animals, pest management, and hunting have been touched on by others, but I want to speak just a little bit about those issues. As a hunter myself I know that it is easy to be a little flippant about these things. Ultimately, the aim is to actually kill an animal, but we should be doing it in a way that is humane. I think it behoves us as human beings at the top of the animal pyramid to treat those animals right and properly. It is with great pleasure that I commend the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022 data-id=\u00228e13b9aa594349e4961ad4fa32e447a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e13b9aa594349e4961ad4fa32e447a6\u0022\u003EMOJO MATHERS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to start by thanking previous speakers, particularly Trevor Mallard and the Minister Nathan Guy, for their generous affirmation of my work on this bill. At the second reading, I spoke of our hope that the Government would still be prepared to support a ban on animal testing of cosmetics despite having rejected it during the Committee of the whole House stage. I am thrilled that my work has been justified. I applaud the Government for finally agreeing to a ban on these cruel tests, and I thank all parties in the House for supporting this amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EWe can be proud of the fact that New Zealand is now the first country in Australasia to ban cosmetic animal testing, showing leadership on an important animal welfare issue of our time. The announcement of a ban on cosmetic animal testing has met with worldwide acclaim and affirmation, and has spurred renewed efforts to get these cruel tests banned in other countries. Doing our part to support a global ban on cosmetic animal testing was a major motivation for getting this change incorporated into the bill, and I look forward to the day when no animal, anywhere in the world, is subject, in these cruel tests, to chemicals being dripped into their eyes or rubbed into their raw skin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EI also welcome a small but important change in the bill that will require animal ethics committees to consider alternatives to animal testing when considering applications to test on animals. Alternatives to animal testing is an area that is making rapid progress at the moment, but, sadly, it is one that New Zealand is lagging behind in. Animal testing often involves extremely high levels of pain and suffering. One of the most traumatic things that I had to do last year, in the discussions on the Pyschoactive Substances Bill, was actually to watch a video of what was involved in toxicology testing, and it absolutely broke my heart. We should be doing everything that we can to reduce the number of animals suffering in these cruel tests, and we have a moral and ethical obligation to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EIf we are to be confident that unnecessary animal tests are not being carried out, it is essential that animal ethics committees are kept up to date with the latest developments in non-animal tests. For example, just recently, over in Australia, a major company decided to use the liver chip model to test the potential cure for hepatitis B instead of using the much more painful and cruel animal test. I want to encourage the Ministry for Primary Industries to investigate ways of ensuring that this information about the latest developments in alternatives to animal testing is shared between the different animal ethics committees in order to guide their decision making. I have spoken to former and current members of animal ethics committees, and they have told me that they would welcome this information because they do not actually have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EThis is particularly important in light of the fact that we know that different animal ethics committees are making different decisions about controversial tests. At least one animal ethics committee has approved three applications for the controversial and outdated LD50 test, whereas another says it would never have approved these because they do not meet the \u201CThree Rs\u201D of animal research. This inconsistency is concerning because it undermines the ministry\u2019s claims that we can trust the decisions of animal ethics committees. In my view, they have a long way to go yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EAnother welcome change in the bill is the partial removal of the loophole that allows, for an indefinite period of time, the development of regulations that breach the purpose of the Act. This is long overdue. These loopholes are the ones that have previously allowed cruel factory farming practices such as factory cages and sow crates to remain legal. I had an amendment that removed that loophole, and the Primary Production Committee heard good submissions from the public in support of my amendment. The Green Party fully agreed with Trevor Mallard that the current transitional provisions in the bill are too generous and that 7 years is sufficient time for farmers to make the change away from cruel practices such as farrowing crates. The fact is that there are successful pig farmers, such as Havoc farm, that do not rely on farrowing crates, and it gives lie to the argument that they are needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EMany people in the House will remember the footage shown on Campbell Live last year that showed very different conditions on different pig farms. The first programme focused on exposing the awful conditions on a pig factory farm in the Waikato. That footage was horrific, showing pigs that were absolutely depressed, cramped in confined conditions, unable to turn round, and unable to express natural behaviour, and that did not have anything like a normal existence. Those conditions were typical of many intensive pig farms and they amounted to legalised animal cruelty. Sadly, this bill will do little to address these conditions. The second programme showed a completely different vision for how farming can be done in New Zealand. It showed Havoc farm, a free-range farm in South Canterbury. It said that the mothers there are able to roam freely with the piglets and that there is access to warm shelters, litter to snuggle down in, and an ability to explore and interact. That is the way that farming should be done if we are going to farm for meat, and these are the only kinds of conditions that the Green Party considers to be acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EDespite some of the really positive aspects of this bill, it is our overall view that this bill still represents a missed opportunity to get it right for the millions of animals suffering on factory farms. My concern is that this bill will not only continue to sanction these kinds of cruel conditions of factory farming but that it may entrench them even further, and that is because it now elevates practicality and economic impact in the bill as explicit factors that can be considered when developing regulations. There was already the ability to take these factors into account, and, historically, these factors\u2014practicality and economic impact\u2014were precisely the arguments used to justify codes of welfare that enabled animals to be kept in factory cages and in sow crates that were in clear breach of the provisions in the Act. In our view, this move sends the wrong message about which factors are important in developing codes of welfare in regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EI also want to say that another main area of concern that has just come to light is the area of live exports. As everybody has mentioned previously, there is an effective prohibition, via an order under the Customs and Excise Act, on live exports for slaughter, and many submitters wanted an outright ban in this bill. The advice and the assurance that we had from Ministry for Primary Industries officers was that the intention is for the current prohibition to be maintained via regulation under the Act, once the bill is passed. I know that many of us have felt very concerned about the recent comments by the Prime Minister, when he was visiting Saudi Arabia, that this was one of the areas that was being looked at. It would be absolutely shameful if we allowed our current policy to be weakened when the regulations are developed, just for the sake of a trade deal. That would be horrific. Nothing could be more damaging to our international reputation than if we were to resume live exports of animals for slaughter, because we know that causes significant suffering, and many farmers do not want it and the public do not want it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a94870a7-abc4-4c1b-bd1e-8a27b98a2a4c\u0022\u003EAlthough we are pleased that some changes will become enforceable, much will depend on which standards get lifted into the regulations. We also remain concerned about the resourcing of animal welfare monitoring and enforcement. Currently, less than 1 percent of complaints result in prosecution, and we still want to see significantly increased funding for monitoring and enforcement, including proactive enforcement. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u002237615a372ab743c7968c8c200e89b5f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237615a372ab743c7968c8c200e89b5f5\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to rise to take a call in the third reading of the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill on behalf of New Zealand First. I want to pick up on a couple of points that Mr McKelvie made earlier, and one of them was actually about pest control. He talked about the pest species of animals that we have in this country. It is quite interesting that at this time the subject of 1080 is topical, because 1080 is actually an extremely inhumane form of pest control. It is curious, in fact, that it was not included in the ambit of this bill, but perhaps that is a question for another day. It is something we can revisit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EMr McKelvie also spoke about the export of live animals for slaughter, and Mr O\u2019Connor touched on that, and the Minister has said a word about it as well. I want to talk primarily about the export of live animals because it is probably the major lingering concern that New Zealand First still has with regard to this bill. During the first reading I expressed some reservations that New Zealand First held regarding the export of live animals for slaughter. Of course, under the existing Act, this is prohibited unless it is specifically authorised by the Director-General of the Ministry for Primary Industries. We asked at the time whether or not, that being the case, this bill presented an opportunity to do away with that provision altogether. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ENew Zealand used to export animals for slaughter on quite a large scale, and the practice was brought to a halt by Parliament some years ago for what were very sound reasons at the time. There were, and are, of course, other reasons as well, economic reasons, but the motivation at the time was primarily centred on the conditions the animals were subjected to while they were being transported to other places and the conditions that they were subjected to when they arrived at the other end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First has got no objection to the export of live bloodstock, because we understand full well just how valuable the thoroughbred industry is to this country. We know that our bloodstock is highly regarded and highly sought after internationally, and that many thousands of jobs and literally hundreds of millions of dollars are generated in the economy through the export of live horses. But horses are treated in an entirely different manner from sheep and cattle intended for slaughter in the way they are transported and cared for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EHorses are airfreighted to their destinations in pressurised, air-conditioned comfort. They are housed in safe, secure environments while on the aeroplane and they have veterinary care. And, of course, on arrival, their fate is not to be taken to the nearest abattoir but rather to a training track or a stud farm. These are valuable animals and they are cared for accordingly. Breeding heifers are similarly afforded a better lot than the cattle and sheep that left these shores a decade or so ago destined for the slaughterhouses of distant places. New Zealand First does not believe that we should be exporting such animals either, but we recognise that while it is legal, there are people who will see it as good business and who will look to profit from it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWe are opposed because we believe that such practices are short-sighted, and, as I have said in debates on other legislation, notably the Dairy Industry Restructuring Act, we believe that business activity of this type will come back and bite New Zealand. The reason for that is that one day the dairy bubble is going to burst. We have allowed ourselves in this country to come to the belief that because we hold such a major position in terms of global cross-border trade in dairy products we are somehow significant in terms of world milk production, and we are not. New Zealand produces only around 3 percent of the world\u2019s milk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EMost dairy produce worldwide is consumed domestically in the country of origin, and international trade comprises only a very small proportion of the total. At the moment, there is a shortfall between supply and demand, and it is this that allows New Zealand to profit from being in a position to supply, from our disproportionately large dairy production relative to our population and domestic demand, to buyers from overseas. But in helping to grow production overseas through joint ventures, and by selling heifers to foreign dairy producers, we are only hastening the arrival of the day when demand for dairy products in the countries that are presently our export markets will be met from production in those countries. For that reason, we do not believe that it is sustainable or even a good idea to export live dairy cows, regardless of the conditions under which they are transported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EOf course, New Zealand does also export other animals for breeding purposes, including cattle, sheep, goats, deer, and even chickens. Our animals are very much sought after worldwide because they are known to be, for the most part, from very good stock lines and are, for the most part, free from any of the nasty diseases that are endemic in some other parts of the world. Again, animals that are exported for breeding purposes are treated better and transported in far greater safety and comfort than those that are destined for the pot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe issue of live exports for slaughter has not gone away. In fact, it raised its head only last week with the Prime Minister\u2019s efforts towards securing a free-trade deal with the nations of the Middle East\u2019s Gulf Cooperation Council. This deal has been on hold since 2009. Coincidentally, one of the sticking points is the fact that New Zealand halted live sheep exports in 2004. Apparently, an investor from Saudi Arabia lost quite a bit of money as a result of the cessation of exports, and we are told that the Saudis are still a wee bit sore about that. But, that aside, these exports were put on indefinite hold at that time for very good reason. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EAs a nation, we have engaged in live export for slaughter for more than 20 years prior to that, but in 2003 something like 5,000 sheep died on one ship under what can be described only as quite horrific conditions while being transported from Australia to Saudi Arabia. They died from heat stress, overcrowding, and a lack of food, water, and sanitation during a sea voyage that had lasted something like 2 months longer than it should have. New Zealand First is very much concerned that such exports may be resumed and that the provision for their resumption still exists under the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWe are concerned on a number of fronts, but they all come back to animal welfare in one way or another. Obviously, we are concerned that if live exports for slaughter were to be resumed, we would be faced with a return to the very same conditions that led to their being curtailed in the first place. It is hard to see how that can be avoided, because these things are driven by money. Sheep are crammed into overcrowded boats because the cost of transporting them has to be kept down. A live sheep being exported for slaughter is not worth very much. In fact, it is probably the lowest return for both the farmer and the nation that can be received for a sheep that has been grown for consumption. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWe do know that things have not improved very much in that regard in the last 10 or 15 years, because live exports from Australia have continued pretty much unabated since that time, and the standard of transport today is much as it was then. In fact, collateral losses for sheep exports from Australia to other parts of the world are running at about 7 or 8 percent\u2014maybe a little bit less than that, but it is still too much, by any measure. It is the minimal value of the animal and the minimal return to the farmer and to \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D that we oppose, and for the same reasons we do not wish to see any part of our primary sector reduced to a simple exporter of bulk commodities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe second concern that we have is around the conditions that might meet livestock exported for slaughter when they arrive at the other end of their journey. We know that the Director-General can grant an exemption if he or she is satisfied that the abattoir in the destination country meets the standards that we demand here, but the reality is that in too many cases live animals are sought in other parts of the world for reasons of ritual slaughter in accordance with the requirements of various religious and cultural practices. These practices by their very nature are not able to meet the minimum standards of animal welfare that we demand of our own meat processes. Animals are required to be fully conscious when they are put to death, which is at odds with our own requirement that they be stunned first. They are frequently transported in the boots of cars, even in the back seats of cars. They are not properly restrained. They are subjected to quite brutal and stressful treatment prior to slaughter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWe have an objection also to the granting of the exemption being placed in the hands of the Director-General, however professional he or she might be. The practice of exporting live animals for slaughter was stopped by politicians through the parliamentary process, and we believe that if it is to be resumed, then that decision must be made in the same way. We do not believe that it is good enough for a Minister to be able to hide behind a bureaucrat if and when this decision ever is to be made. Governments need to take responsibility for changes of this magnitude, and we believe that if a Minister wishes to restart the export of live animals for slaughter, then he or she should be required to put their money where their mouth is, stand behind that decision, and stand up for it if and when necessary. And whether it is necessary is a salient point, because over the last decade or so we have shown that exports of live sheep for slaughter from New Zealand are not necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand farming sector has got on quite well without them for the last decade, and it appears that customers in the Middle East have got on quite well without those exports, as well. So it is simply not necessary, and we ask again why it has not been removed altogether, and why we did not make provision for prohibiting it in total when the bill went through. But all that said, on balance this is still a very good bill, which will deliver very much better and improved outcomes for animal welfare in New Zealand, and New Zealand First continues to support it. I commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228dcce579b95b4f479d2f59cde57d73dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228dcce579b95b4f479d2f59cde57d73dc\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to be speaking this afternoon on the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill. To begin, I will make just a couple of comments about comments made by the member for Hutt South, the Hon Trevor Mallard, this afternoon about the Ministry for Primary Industries and about it perhaps not being out there doing its job in the field. I have to say that, in my experience\u2014prior to my becoming a member of Parliament, I did substantial work with the Ministry for Primary Industries on various committees in the area of animal welfare\u2014a lot of work has been done with industries to help them to improve the practices in which they partake in order to earn an income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EAlthough there has been some reference today about this bill having been around for a long time\u2014and as one of the newer members of the Primary Production Committee, I will acknowledge those who have gone before me\u2014that does not mean, actually, that nothing has been happening out there. People who farm animals are really keen to make a difference. They know what the market perceptions are. They know what people are saying about their practices. There is a lot of work constantly going on, all the time, to make sure that they are upholding the best practices that they possibly can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EWe have heard a bit today about the 16 codes of welfare that are covered under the Act, and, of course, these codes will be strengthened by the new regulations. In recent weeks I have been lucky enough to see some good presentations from people, in the likes of the poultry industry, who are actually transitioning to a phase where they are looking at moving from cages into colonies. So they are looking at actually taking the animals in that process out of those cages as fast as they economically can. Sometimes it is economically difficult to do some of those things in a hurry. But I am really heartened by the attitude of that industry, in terms of being able to effect some change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThere was a reference today about sheep shearing. In Te K\u016Biti, in the heart of my electorate of Taranaki - King Country, we have just had the New Zealand shearing championships. I have seen some of the graphics that have been coming out of Australia as well. I have to say that I did not see any sheep in distress, and there were hundreds\u2014probably thousands\u2014of sheep shorn over that weekend. Those people are professionals who know the technicalities of shearing a sheep. I am sure that if I got hold of a sheep and tried to shear it, it would probably panic, but when you watch the likes of a champion like David Fagan shearing a sheep, it is very professionally and very well done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EWe have also heard this afternoon about animals being outside rather than inside. I think I will be really interested to see what happens there. Some of the latest requests out there, in terms of getting rid of our pests in New Zealand, have been calls from some people in society to keep cats inside. So it is going to be really interesting because we have got people asking to get farm animals outside but then to keep cats inside.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EIt is surprising to me, in this bill, that it has taken such a long time for us to realise that animals are sentient beings. Even though we know it, it is going to be nice, actually, to see it finally written in legislation. I would also like to commend Mojo Mathers for her clauses around banning cosmetics testing on animals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EWhat I would really like to highlight this afternoon is the fact that we are talking about being productive and competitive\u2014and trade is very important to this country. Yes, there is a need to have high standards. We are in a transition phase with a lot of industries. Earlier this year the Government released the New Zealand Animal Welfare Strategy. This sets a direction. It sets a vision. I think we would be arrogant to think that we in this House are the only people who are the experts on animal welfare. Industries have the ability to debate, to construct evolving standards, and to work with the Ministry for Primary Industries. People who work with animals do care about animals. The proposals in this legislation have been through rigorous consultation. They are set to act at a pace that our communities can live with. I think it is really important that this legislation has made that clearer and more transparent, and that we can navigate our way through this legislation much more clearly than we could before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThere is also one thing that I would like to point out around trade and biosecurity, and that is the move to avoid unnecessary delays in urgent national biosecurity responses. Clause 5 inserts into section 3 of the Act the new subsections (2A), (2B), and (2C) to provide for exemption from the requirement to seek approval from an ethics committee before killing an animal in such circumstances. Sometimes we just do not have time to go through big long rigorous processes that could end up being substantially more dangerous to society than to the animal, or animals, concerned in those situations. So I am really, really pleased to see that that is changing in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThis bill also clarifies what constitutes a significant surgical procedure that can be carried out only by a vet, without defining it so narrowly that farmers cannot do routine procedures. So that is just another clarification that means people will not be able to say: \u201CI did it because I didn\u2019t know.\u201D Things are unclear in the Act and people go ahead and do things, and then find out later. So it is really important that people do know exactly what is in the legislation and exactly what they are allowed to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe other thing is that there will be greater sanctions for those who mistreat animals. I think that is really important because, at the end of the day, we do have laws to protect us from those people who perhaps do not see things in the same way as the rest of us. That is not only farmers; that is pet owners and a whole raft of other people. We have also included wild animals in this. It is really important that just because they were not pets or owned by somebody, they were not protected under our law. I am pleased to see that there are greater sanctions for those who do mistreat animals, because, for those who watch not only the daily 6 o\u2019clock news but also social media, which is a classic these days, there are people showing pictures of mistreated animals, so it is certainly important to get on top of that one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EUnder this legislation, the vast majority of New Zealanders who take care of their animals very well will not see any major changes in terms of the way they are expected to behave towards their animals. I think it is going to deal with those people who, as I said, really do not have the feeling for animals. We need to deal with those people because one thing is for certain: those people in society who have trouble respecting animals often have trouble respecting people as well. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022855ac4de2af34f22aa8d2f1b3debdd47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022855ac4de2af34f22aa8d2f1b3debdd47\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. Steffan Browning\u20145 minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022 data-id=\u0022299a0d9b5b474d7aa7bc0da858899f7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022299a0d9b5b474d7aa7bc0da858899f7c\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to be able to speak to the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill and congratulate those involved with getting the improvements into the bill, particularly my colleague Mojo Mathers. What I want to see when this legislation is fully enacted is other elements of animal welfare law that are already enacted put into practice by this Government. I am thinking particularly, as I speak tonight, of the hundreds of cows that died from the herbicide-tolerant swede issue in Southland, the many, many more that were visibly ill, and the many, many more with subclinical issues. So poor was the condition of some of the surviving cows that there was a question of their suitability as culled cows for processing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI have been looking at some Official Information Act material on this. There is what they call a natural toxin that seems to be the cause of the distress of these cows. This was a serious animal welfare issue. Was that product, which clearly is at the base of this issue, withdrawn? Was it banned? Or was there a cover-up? There was a cover-up. We still do not have a proper report on what happened last winter, and into early spring, to those cows in Southland. The only way we can find anything is through Official Information Act material, and in that I find the very valid questions that I put to the Minister and I see how they were treated as just generalisations. It says that if the group is asked about this, it should just stick to these messages and not go down the track of trying to answer any questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThere is a chemical involved here as well. It is not just the glucosinolates\u2014we call them GSLs for short, as everybody else does, for good reason. A glucosinolate is natural toxin. It forms in the leaves of swedes and other brassicas. It can get to quite high levels, and under certain conditions it can get to a toxic level. But what we find here is that the herbicide-tolerant swedes have way more than the non - herbicide tolerant swedes. The glucosinolate levels are 4 to 16 milligrams per kilo in the leaves\u2014the bulbs are lower, down on the ground, 1 to 4 milligrams per kilo\u2014but non - herbicide tolerant ones are just 1 milligram. Something is going on in PGG Wrightson\u2019s Cleancrop system, with swedes at least, and we are not too sure about the turnips, rape, and other products under that system. It cheated New Zealanders and it cheated farmers by going down a system of production of those herbicide-tolerant ones and by dodging the genetic engineering route that it already had for that same product through a chemical mutagenesis thing\u2014just as much a DNA muck up\u2014so that it did not have to go through the Environmental Protection Authority and be open to submissions and testing for safety. PGG Wrightson dodged it and this Government has let it dodge it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThis is an animal welfare issue. It is also an issue for the people who consume the products from those animals, and for the other animal products in this country from animals that are fed products containing lots of herbicides, whether it be glyphosate or whether it be chlorothalonil, which is in these herbicide tolerant swedes and is banned in China. In here, in the Official Information Act stuff, I find that they are saying: \u201CIs there enough other herbicide if we move away from these crops?\u201D. They are so locked into PGG Wrightson\u2019s crop. We have got to change the way we farm. We have to go down the organic route, and this Government has got to help with regulation for the organic sector. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002237e09d5764734c7390bfeccd68d807e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237e09d5764734c7390bfeccd68d807e1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Sue Moroney\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u00229f2e43a1b06b45d19eadcfd1467b3df4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f2e43a1b06b45d19eadcfd1467b3df4\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and support the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill at its third reading on behalf of the Labour Party. I just want to note for regular viewers of, and listeners to, parliamentary debates that they will have noticed something a little different happening in the House this afternoon. It is a Government day where Government measures are going through the House, and the Government members are making very fulsome contributions to this debate. It is good to see that occur, but, of course, it is a sign that the Government is not that keen to get through all this legislation very fast because it does not have much legislation on the Order Paper at the moment. That is because the Government has run out of ideas, so it has finally found its voice and is wanting to talk rather a lot about its legislation, one piece of which is the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill, and that is what is consuming our interest today for the next little while in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003ELabour is supporting this bill and we are very pleased to do so, although we wish it went an awful lot further and we wish that the measures came in more quickly. Once Parliament determines, as it has, that certain practices are harmful and are not in the interests of animal welfare, then our question is: why wait 15 years to bring in those measures? If we have determined that these practices are harmful, we should act as soon as we can. I noticed that the last Government member who spoke on this bill used a phrase where she said that people were doing this \u201Cas fast as they economically can\u201D. That is a phrase that I have not heard used a lot before, but I think it is very telling in terms of where the priority lies in this regard. I would prefer, and the Labour Party would prefer, that the welfare of the animals was the priority and that people were urged to treat animals in a more respectful way much more quickly than taking 15 years for those harmful practices to be phased out. So that would be our criticism of this bill. However, we are pleased that there is some progress being made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EOne of the most important reasons that personally I am pleased to see some progress made on animal welfare is the very close and now well-documented link between those who are prepared to abuse animals and be harmful towards animals and those who therefore turn out also to be abusive towards fellow human beings. There is now actually a lot of evidence that tells us this. The young men whom I think were eventually caught undertaking that heinous act of clubbing the seals to death down south\u2014this happened about 18 months ago, maybe 2 years ago now. Actually, when people show a lack of empathy towards animals in that way\u2014albeit these animals were out in the wild, not someone\u2019s pet\u2014they almost certainly have that same lack of empathy towards others in vulnerable situations, like children, like other fellow human beings, like women in their lives as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003ESo I think it is very important not only for the issues of animal welfare, which in its own right is very important, and for the issues that many other members have pointed out about how we are placed within the international market and how animal welfare is seen in those terms, but it is also important because we know of the impact and the direct correlation and relationship between people who get a buzz out of hurting animals and how that probably means that they get the same buzz out of hurting, and have the same lack of empathy for, their fellow human beings. I am not going to take up too much more of Parliament\u2019s time. This is an important measure not only for animals but for people. It is important for our place in the international market. Labour supports its passing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u00220c2caba09f18409786d0a776794fefbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c2caba09f18409786d0a776794fefbe\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I just find it absolutely amazing that when Opposition members speak in support of a Government bill, they make such good sense. So I just want to commend Sue Moroney\u2019s on some of her thoughts there, and also\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022644e7ec8a8f448f3a4bcb3948d4f5f39\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, be careful\u2014be careful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b444112027e14c65a25b96cbde63900d\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, be careful. I have been warned to be careful. That is right. You will not get any more credit from me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe Animal Welfare Amendment Bill is a very important bill, I think, for most New Zealanders\u2014well, all New Zealanders\u2014and, certainly, for those who have a kind consideration and thought towards animals. In fact, about 70 percent of New Zealand households have a pet, and I was just thinking about the pets that I have had throughout my life. I started off with tadpoles. I am sure that everybody else here might have had a tadpole in their room, in a little jar with a bit of oxygen weed. Then I had guinea pigs, cats, and calves. I had a pet pig once, called Patsy. I had lambs, horses, and dogs, of course. All of these things, I think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f164c60041a848ebbfdf3e6a55793495\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Horses in your bedroom?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bd53dfdd5cf49359db93c891329de69\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014have made me a very empathetic person. Thank you very much, Ms Moroney.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI think that there is some validity in the comment that the way we treat our animals is indicative of the sorts of attitudes we have towards ourselves\u2014human beings\u2014and it is always good to see animals treated with respect and care. I think that in our country we are horrified when we see abuse and cruelty to animals. It comes across our TV screens far too often, and there is an outcry when despicable things are done. I think it is indicative of the fact that New Zealand is, by and large, a very decent society. So it is no wonder that we are bringing through the House this piece of legislation, by and large with support right across the House, wanting to improve the state and the being of animals. I am sure that there are going to be differences on some finer points\u2014as different members have spoken about\u2014but, by and large, we are together on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOne of the things that my colleague Barbara Kuriger said\u2014she understands animals very well, she being from a dairy background\u2014was that this bill talks about the sentience of animals: their ability to feel, to perceive, and to experience. I think that the more science reveals this, the more of an obligation there is upon humanity to deal with animals in a very humane way. I think also that the comments made by Damien O\u2019Connor are pertinent, in that we live in a world that consumes protein. So that is the other balance of it. There are some people who abhor the thought of a steak or a ham sandwich or, you know, sausages on a barbecue. But, you would say that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e533b8e592c64923aa26756d9e7702f4\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022488da20e0aa546cab4f0d3a68e96c8aa\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: It would not be Mr Faafoi, by the look of it. He is a man who would like a beautiful lamb curry, no doubt, and also a steak on a barbecue, or a beef sandwich.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EBut the other side of it is that we understand that animals, whether they produce dairy products, wool, milk, or meat, have contributed to our way of life and to our economy here\u2014to the point where each year around 50 percent of export earnings comes from animals and animal products. I think that is the reality. For myself, whenever I go to the supermarket, I always buy eggs that are free range. That is because I believe in animal welfare, and also because they seem to be the biggest and the nicest eggs. I think there is something in that; that we can have not only a reputation around positive animal welfare but also products that are far superior because of it. I think people in the industry need to realise that they will not be hurt by the transition, but that, actually, they will end up with products that are far superior. Having minimum standards is an important aspect of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWe pride ourselves on our place in the world with regard to animal welfare. There is a global charity, called World Animal Protection, that recently ranked 50 countries across the world on their animal welfare standards. This index placed New Zealand in first place, alongside the United Kingdom, Austria, and Switzerland. That is good to see, but we cannot afford to be complacent just because we might be top-ranking. We must always look for improvements. One of the things Mr Mallard said was that this transition away from caged hens is taking far too long\u201415 years. Well, in the bill, it is 10 years. Yes, there is an opportunity for a person to apply for a one-off exemption of 5 years, but for the vast majority, the strong expectation is that it should take no longer than 10 years. I believe also that over that period of time you would have to have a good reason for why it was going to take that long. There is no reason why people cannot be proactive in moving ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIt is not just legislation that controls this; it is also market appetite. It is what the market wants. Increasingly, we will find, not only in New Zealand but also around the world, that the market is deciding its food products and the products that animals produce\u2014milk or whatever it may be\u2014based on ethical farming. That is the way the world is going. People are listening to that message. If they are interested in staying in business, they need to listen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIt has been 14 years since there was a review of the Animal Welfare Act, so this bill is long overdue. It is a very important piece of legislation. This legislation will update and strengthen animal welfare in New Zealand. This bill is the result of a comprehensive review of the Animal Welfare Act 1999. It was found that although the principles of the existing legislation are sound, the time is right to update and improve how it operates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIn that regard, I want to put a shout out there for my former parliamentary colleague from Taranaki - King, Country Shane Ardern, who was the chair of the Primary Production Committee. He did a tremendous amount of work on this bill. We are very pleased now to have Barbara Kuriger, who is the member for Taranaki - King Country. That electorate starts in Taranaki and ends nearly in South Auckland. I think it is a nation-size electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203dd5071ac57493ca4edb9f0456174e6\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: A townie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b643eabe22444804856003d7d76dfe2e\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is right. And she is a townie in a dozen towns up and down our country. Barbara has a tremendous knowledge of and experience in animal welfare, and it is great to have her in our caucus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EMinimum standards are important. Sometimes it is a real shame that you have to legislate for minimum standards. You would hope that people would always, all the time, be seeking to be the best and to develop and promote excellence in their industry. But minimum standards of animal care do change over time, as scientific views lift on what animal management practices are and on what is acceptable. An example of this is, of course, what has recently captured the attention of New Zealanders, through campaigns, and that is the use of sow stalls and battery cages\u2014both of which are being phased out. I think that is an important point to make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWhen transitioning from one type of farming practice to another, we have to acknowledge that it is an expensive process. We have put into this bill a transitional period of time. The purists might be upset at that and they might say: \u201CDo it tomorrow. Do it whatever the expense is. You just have to do it.\u201D Not only do we need to consider the well-being of our farming and poultry industries but we also need to understand that the way of life that has been passed on to New Zealanders is something that we need to protect. These transitional measures are being put in place because we do expect a transition, but we are not going to do it just tomorrow, although we expect the industry to be proactive in this and make every effort to do it in a very timely way. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1ce9e77962449da88de7391855beb53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1ce9e77962449da88de7391855beb53\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. I am pleased to make the penultimate contribution in the third reading of the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill. Even though I am not a member of the Primary Production Committee, I know that this is a very, very important piece of legislation that we are debating in the House today. It further enhances our reputation as a quality food-producing nation and exporter to markets around the world. It is a very important piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe have heard in previous contributions that we as Kiwis feel very deeply about animal welfare, and that is true. We have heard that two-thirds of households have pets. We have heard that our export industries are largely underpinned by our food production and our food product exports. I need not go into the detail of how important it is in terms of our way of life and our standard of living that we do have strong primary industries. We are fair-minded as Kiwis. We do like to see our animals treated well. We are horrified when we see examples of abuse conducted on animals whether it be on farms or in other situations. All of those matters are sought to be addressed through this bill. We are supporting this bill based on that underlying principle and policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EAgain we have heard numerous contributions from the Government side of the House about the importance of animal welfare in terms of our primary industries, but again it has failed to even mention the importance of the seafood industry to our country. I repeat that the seafood industry is very important. It is a $1.5 billion export industry, and it is very important in terms of the communities that it services. I think of communities in my own electorate, such as Bluff or Kaik\u014Dura, or even over on the Chatham Islands. It is a very important industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EAnimal welfare, under the application of this bill, is equally important to the seafood industry. The No. 1 export product in the seafood industry now is live lobster. The very fact that our lobster, which is potted here in the waters of Aotearoa, has to live in a tank in a restaurant, principally in North Asia, is incentive enough for the industry to ensure that the animals are absolutely treated with the highest standards of handling and transportation all the way from\u2014dare I say it\u2014a rock over on the Chatham Islands through to their handling on the plane to Asia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe seafood industry has come about only in the last, say, 15 to 20 years. It is an industry that has flourished, and now the No.1 product in our seafood industry is lobster, and that is principally based on animal welfare, handling, and the catch methods that are applied to live lobster. I am very pleased to say that the fishing industry has a very good relationship with the Ministry for Primary Industries in terms of the protocols, or codes of practice, that are in place, for example, for live lobster. I would imagine that the industry is looking forward to those codes of practice eventually being put into regulation, again because the value lies in the very fact that the product has to be live. That is where the value lies, and that is where the premium is paid to our exporters. Ultimately, the returns flow back to our fishing industry, our fishers and their families, through the very fact that that lobster is handled and is received live by our customers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIt does not really stop there because opportunities abound for further live exports. We know that there are small bits of trade that are happening around live p\u0101ua exports. We have significant live shellfish exports that take place. All of these are enhancing the value that we are earning as a seafood industry, which ultimately benefits our country. The one area of opportunity that is yet to be developed is in the live fin fish export trade. If you go into any restaurant in North Asia, in China and southern China especially, live fish is a very much highly prized dish in the Chinese market. If we are able to actually export live fish, that can turn a low - value species fish in New Zealand into a high-value fish, just by ensuring that we look after that fish or that animal, and making sure that it is delivered in good condition to the customer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIt not only goes to the fact that the fish is alive but it goes further in terms of the appearance. Our customers in North Asia like colourful fish. They like stripes; they like distinctive looking and highly prized fish that will end up on their plates. Opportunities abound for our seafood industry and I know that it will be working with the Ministry for Primary Industries to ensure that there are very appropriate regulations or codes of practice put in place to ensure that we can unlock the value to generate further foreign exchange earnings, which will ultimately benefit our nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis is a very important piece of legislation. I do, though, want to take issue with the Minister for Primary Industries, because I do believe he was being slightly disingenuous in his comments about how the Government is doing so much to support animal welfare and enforcement. The Minister mentioned that there have been extra front-line animal protection officers appointed, or put on to the job, to ensure that there would be on-farm inspections, compliance, and the like. But that is not entirely correct because a fair portion of the actual animal welfare inspectors that the Ministry for Primary Industries does engage at the moment, or employ, are actually fisheries officers. They are those good men and women whose job is to actually detect and investigate breaches of our fisheries legislation. Yet those fisheries officers are now being shifted into roles that require them to be animal welfare inspectors as well, or biosecurity officers to investigate incursions that take place. Again, the fact that the Government is, sort of, fudging the numbers in terms of what is actually going into the front line is slightly disingenuous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EFinally, can I also say that the Minister has talked about the fact that resources are going into animal inspections. Can I say that when it comes to fisheries, the fishing industry pays over $35 million each year in cost-recovery compliance, and $10 million of those cost-recovery levies that are imposed on, and paid by, the fishing industry is supposed to go on compliance. Unfortunately, now we are finding that the fisheries officers are having to be animal welfare inspectors as well. It is easy to take money from an industry, but the Government needs to make sure that it is actually delivering services to that industry for those costs. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4e65caafc944f7b9a516002ae3bde13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4e65caafc944f7b9a516002ae3bde13\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to stand in the third reading of the Animal Welfare Amendment Bill. When I was contemplating what I would say in my contribution to this third reading, I went back, as always, to my electorate, which is a large southern rural electorate that is a big producer of a number of commodity products, which are duly exported overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis led me to think about an occasion when I was in Hong Kong. I was taken to a wet market and then to a dry market and supermarkets to have a look at primary produce, particularly New Zealand beef and lamb at the time. I was very kindly chaperoned by a local gentleman who was an importer of New Zealand beef and lamb products and who was a local representative of Beef and Lamb New Zealand. Many tourists go to the wet markets because you can see chickens being slaughtered right there, and there are concrete floors. People go to the market and buy each meal because of the culture and because they like the freshest of food. We went from the wet markets on to a supermarket where New Zealand beef and lamb\u2014in this instance, lamb in particular\u2014was packaged for Hong Kong consumers, as it is packaged for Singaporean consumers, European consumers, Chinese consumers, or wherever it is in the world that New Zealand exports its animal products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EA couple of things struck me, and I reflected on a couple of aspects that I think relate to this bill. One of them was the context around the meat product\u2014and it was lamb in this case. It was that the offering on sale was a package maybe twice that size, and there were little slithers of thinly sliced lamb that were being sold. I was thinking: \u201CGosh, that doesn\u2019t look like a leg of lamb.\u201D, which is what I\u2019m used to buying or growing. But it is the form in which the Hong Kong consumer buys the lamb for the dinner that night, and it might end up being a hotpot, which, from memory, is one of the dishes that New Zealand lamb is used in. So I noted the differences in expectations of the different markets for our product, and I also noticed, when I was looking at the labelling, that New Zealand sells itself on having not only a wonderful environment and a clean, green environment\u2014which, I have to say, this Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225434a480b09b4c9c91893fc1a425e36b\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Has destroyed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a449d3d4f9f4dcdb6c7f9d91c4e5962\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is doing a lot to enhance. You see, there we have the Opposition, because it is the Opposition and it can only think to oppose, saying \u201Cdestroyed\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ELet me say to that member of the Opposition that this Government has done much more to enhance the quality of our environment\u2014and particularly of water\u2014than any. In fact, if I recollect, the Labour Government in the previous term had its water plan of action. Does anybody who has been around here for a while remember Labour\u2019s water plan of action? Well, it was so bad\u2014so bad\u2014that officials at the Ministry for the Environment termed it, in public, the water plan\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297b9561a2bac4f93b1145abd5e7531f7\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226866b84450e8452e914b46e2d987631d\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I am relating this to the bill because of our international reputation in terms of quality. Although we do have some parties in the House that would seek to destroy New Zealand\u2019s international reputation, this Government is working very strongly to enhance our international reputation, and this Animal Welfare Amendment Bill certainly adds to our reputation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI know when speaking to some of our vets, for example, in and around the Waitaki district that they have long been concerned\u2014particularly those who are involved in the export markets and who service the farmers, farming operations, and freezing works that export internationally. They are absolutely aware of and support not only New Zealand\u2019s efforts to enhance our environmental reputation\u2014because this is \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D, after all\u2014but also the need for us to maintain our reputation for good animal husbandry standards. And I believe we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWhat I have also seen over the years, particularly around the Waitaki Valley, is the expansion of dairying as a result of irrigation\u2014another wonderful initiative of this Government in supporting this development. It is not only supporting it but also providing incentive funds, and research and development funds for the development of irrigation, which is increasing productivity and jobs in the regions. Particularly, I want to zero in on the Waitaki Valley because we now have irrigation from the top of the valley\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b5ece440b964fe39a7964555ed3807b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a third reading speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022966b8cede6824e6a870b16161614df8d\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. What that has meant is that we now have dairy farming expansion along the main road. When you have dairy farming expansion along the main road, the travelling public\u2014both visitors and New Zealand citizens alike\u2014get to see farming operations up close. In fact, people will often stop and park their cars to take photos of dairy cows and sheep when they can find them\u2014there are fewer sheep in my area than there used to be. One of the consequences of having dairy farming on show is that animal husbandry, as of necessity, needs to lift its game, consequentially\u2014not just because it can be seen from the main road and it is New Zealand\u2019s reputation at stake but also because farming has lifted its game substantially over the past few years, and that is just my observation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI did not sit on the select committee that considered this bill\u2014I know that a number of members here did\u2014so I have not had the opportunity to scrutinise fully this bill. But I am pleased that one of the objectives of the bill is to provide for clear and enforceable standards of animal welfare. In that, I do hope that attention was paid to the growth of smallholdings and hobby farmers in New Zealand. I think that Federated Farmers have often raised the point that small farmers also need to have a high standard of animal husbandry. It may not be that they are exporting\u2014probably not; the likelihood of small farms exporting is probably pretty low\u2014but none the less, even if those animals are being raised for home kill or on-farm killing, or for sending down to the local abattoir to be killed and then dressed at the butcher and then sent home again, which is what we used to do when we had a small farm, the level of animal husbandry needs to be maintained by that sector as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI did a visit to Alliance Group\u2019s Pukeuri freezing works some years ago\u2014probably 4 or 5 years ago. This was just as the local MP, because I was interested in the export of lamb, and they tried to play a trick on me at Pukeuri. We went right to the top of the chain\u2014and it is quite a long trek from the bottom, where they cut up the cuts with the saws, all the way up back to the kill. This is a halal plant, and so the sheep were killed very humanely. In fact, they had no idea what was coming\u2014so it was a very humane kill\u2014and then they proceeded down the line. I could see the workers looking at me\u2014a local sheila turning up\u2014and thinking: \u201CWho does she think she is\u2014the local MP? I know, we\u2019ll get her.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EAs the sheep was coming down the line, it came time to top the sheep\u2019s head off. What the freezing workers did was pop it on the ground looking at me, with the hope of my saying: \u201COh, isn\u2019t it awful. It\u2019s a sheep\u2019s head.\u201D Well, little did they know that we had been involved in home killing down on the farm for 20 years or so by that stage, so that did not work. But I have to say that I know a lot of the freezing workers out at Pukeuri, which is probably why they played the trick on me. I have to say that I know Pukeuri freezing works very well. I also know Silver Fern Farms up at the northern end of my electorate. I have met with the management. I have met with the freezing workers. They do uphold the highest standards of animal welfare, because they have to. They understand that for the animals\u2019 sake it is important and also that in terms of our international reputation and our export markets it is critical. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b3dce000d9f4f2298306382486869f1\u0022\u003ESocial Assistance (Portability to Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225bdeb3e7d3ac4a608ed5b0d95ddb7829\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000397\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 29 April.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002277b76226cd624c40b99b037219acba40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277b76226cd624c40b99b037219acba40\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour\u2014Kelston):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, fakalofa lahi atu, and taloha ni. It is a privilege to speak to this bill, the Social Assistance (Portability to Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau) Bill, and out of respect for our Pacific brothers and sisters to whom this bill relates, I greet this House in those three languages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want to start by contextualising this bill. Many New Zealanders are, actually, unaware of the unique relationship that New Zealand has with our Cook Island, Niuean, and Tokelauan nations. Those three Island nations have a constitutional relationship with New Zealand, which I am sure we are aware of but which many people outside of this House have no knowledge of. They are technically part of the Realm of New Zealand. As such, they have free association with New Zealand and are New Zealand citizens by right. They can move freely between their Island homes and ours. As such, we have a responsibility as a Parliament to make sure that we exercise the same duty of care to them as we do to New Zealand - based citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIt is appropriate to recognise the service of men and women from those countries to our country\u2014particularly in light of the recent Anzac Day commemorations. Our Pacific Realm brothers and sisters fought alongside New Zealanders during World War I and World War II\u2014many of them under our flag, the New Zealand flag. The contributions that they have made to this country, whether to our economy, our sports fields, our workforce, our academia, our arts, or through fighting for this country, are unquestionable. The Labour Party and, I think, this whole Parliament value the unique relationship that we have with these countries and will do what is required to honour that relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIn brief, this bill will give effect to the Government policy on portability of New Zealand superannuation and the veterans pension to the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau. This is an omnibus bill that seeks to amend the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001, the Veterans\u2019 Support Act 2014, and the Social Security Act 1964. The aim of this bill is to allow eligible people who live in the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau to apply from any of those countries for New Zealand superannuation or the veterans pension and to be paid those benefits in those countries or in other specified Pacific countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIn August 2013 the Hon Murray McCully, Minister of Foreign Affairs, announced changes to the special portability arrangement that would allow eligible residents to apply for their pension or veterans pension from the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau. Under the current rules, people wishing to retire to the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau have to be resident and present in New Zealand at the age of 65. Residents of those countries or that territory would still need to qualify for New Zealand superannuation. They must have been resident and present in New Zealand for more than 10 years since the age of 20, including 5 years since the age of 50. This legislation means that people who are entitled to New Zealand superannuation, regardless of whether they are of Cook Island, Niuean, or Tokelauan ethnicity, would be able to depart New Zealand to live in one of these three countries after the age of 55 and apply for their superannuation once they turn 65 without returning to New Zealand. Currently, they would have to stay in New Zealand until turning 65 in order to qualify. The new policy would require legislation to be passed in the New Zealand Parliament, and is expected to apply from 1 July 2015.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe support this bill and believe it is a step in the right direction towards equal treatment of New Zealand citizens throughout the Realm. However, we take on board some of the concerns that were raised by submitters about the eligibility criteria. My colleague Poto Williams actually raised this issue in a minority report, and she alluded to a Supplementary Order Paper she was going to write seeking to remove the requirement to be resident and present in New Zealand for 5 years between the ages of 50 and the qualification age of 65. The purpose of that Supplementary Order Paper was to ensure that residents of the islands of the Realm would not be disadvantaged by being forced to absent themselves from family and work commitments in order to receive New Zealand superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ENew Zealand citizens, including those within the Realm of New Zealand, should be treated equitably, and Poto Williams\u2019 idea, which she discussed in that minority report, would mean that we are more closely aligning the criteria for all applicants living in New Zealand and the countries of the Realm. I do want to say that despite the fact that Poto Williams went to great lengths to write a minority report that reflected her concern and also alluded to the fact that she would be writing this Supplementary Order Paper, one of our colleagues from New Zealand First decided to go and write the Supplementary Order Paper. We are not petty; we will still support that Supplementary Order Paper, but I do want to acknowledge my Cook Island colleague Poto Williams for the work that she did on the Social Services Committee, for the attention that she paid to the submitters, and for the fact that she has been pushing for us to actually take this point into consideration. I hope that the Government takes it seriously, including the chair of our select committee, who is our other Cook Island colleague in the House, Mr Alfred Ngaro.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI do want to share an experience I had a few years back when I was part of a group that travelled to four Pacific Islands as part of New Zealand\u2019s inquiry into our relationship with the Pacific. One thing that came up time and time again when we were in the Cook Islands and when we went to Niue\u2014unfortunately, we did not get an opportunity to go to Tokelau\u2014was the fact that the biggest problem they are facing is depopulation. They talked about the fact that they have lost, and continue to lose, their biggest resource to New Zealand. And that resource, of course, is their people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESometimes I think that we take it for granted that we have people coming here, living here, and contributing to our economy, and I want to acknowledge our three Realm countries for the contribution that their people\u2014their biggest resource\u2014have made to this country. I think one way in which we can honour that relationship is to ensure that, yes, we all support this bill in the House, and also that we take into consideration the Supplementary Order Paper that has been put up by New Zealand First and that was proposed by my colleague Poto Williams. This is a bill that we think will be supported across the House, and we do not think there are very many party politics involved with this\u2014except for, perhaps, a little bit of debate over who may have come up with the idea of a Supplementary Order Paper. It is really about doing what is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI hope that the Government will seriously consider supporting the Supplementary Order Paper that I have spoken about, because it is the right thing to do. I think, moving forward, that this is just one way in which we can honour the relationship that we have with the three Realm countries, and ensure that there will be other ways in which we can do that, other opportunities that will present themselves to us as a Parliament to honour that relationship. I think that it is important, first and foremost, to continually raise awareness with general members of the public that we do have this special relationship. Any measures that we put into place to honour that relationship are unique to our relationship with those countries, and may not necessarily apply to other countries. It is just part and parcel of the fact that they happen to be part of the Realm of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe support this bill, and we ask all of the other political parties in the House to support the Supplementary Order Paper that is being put up by New Zealand First but, of course, was proposed by my Cook Island colleague, Poto Williams. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00227f7ac24d940c4c4b87bb82ff5c66e960\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f7ac24d940c4c4b87bb82ff5c66e960\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is an honour to be able to rise and take a call on the second reading on the Social Assistance (Portability to Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau) Bill. First of all, to my Tokelauan colleague over there, Kris Faafoi, taloha ni. And also to my Cook Island colleague over there, Poto Williams, kia orana tatou katotoa. E te ora matoa o te atua. Greetings to you as well. Unfortunately, there are no Niuean colleagues here, but we do acknowledge Niue as well, fakalofa lahi atu. Kia matolo oti, because they are the three nations of the Realm of New Zealand. What people also may not know is that it has been said that when we sing the national anthem, \u201CGod Defend New Zealand\u201D, and we talk about the triple star, it is a particular reference to the three nations of the Realm. In the national anthem we talk about defending them from strife and war. So there absolutely is a special relationship, which was signed in 1965. In fact, for the Cook Islands, this year is a celebration of 50 years of their independence. For those countries, to be in free association and self-governing is very much an important aspect of self-dependence and self-determination. We think that is absolutely important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EAlso, I would just like to mention that the relationship is such that we are commemorating the 100 years of conflict for New Zealand, in regard to service and sacrifice. We have been working, Poto Williams and myself, on acknowledging the contribution that 147 Niuean soldiers made\u2014and 500 Cook Islands soldiers as well. In fact, because of that relationship, Sir M\u0101ui Pomare, in 1915 through to 1917, visited those nations of the Realm, and through that, many of them came in the Rarotongan contingent\u2014over five contingents that came across and fought in the New Zealand (M\u0101ori) Pioneer Battalion. That goes, I suppose, towards acknowledging the relationship of the nations of the Realm. Their contribution to New Zealand society as well, both in the past and also in the present\u2014that becomes very important. Hence this bill becomes important to those nations, and in particular to myself\u2014I am Kiwi born and of Cook Island descent, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI do not know whether you have been privileged enough to go to those Pacific nations, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269772807f26f41b9aa5afad3025b991a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222de80d01670e444985d759af3d3e289b\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: You have. I am sure that you would have enjoyed it there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ETo my parents, who are in New Zealand at the moment and are heading back home, it is a proud moment to be able to ensure that this bill actually has some significance for them as well. I think this bill is quite significant in that it does allow the opportunity for those three nations to have a special arrangement. That arrangement is not afforded to all of the 22 Pacific nations under the special portability arrangement; this particular arrangement is specific to those three nations. I want to make that point\u2014that already, in particular with this bill, there is recognition of that relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I want to mention inside of this is the Supplementary Order Paper that was mentioned\u2014and I will talk at a bit more length about the Supplementary Order Paper that has come through from New Zealand First. It talks about introducing a new section, which is 5(2), to replace section 8(c). I think it is particular to a number of submissions. There were 13 written submissions and six that were oral. In fact, we were very fortunate to actually have the Premier of Niue, the Hon Toke Talagi, come, and also the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands, the Hon Henry Puna, was present. It was quite an honour to have them personally present to us their submission in the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe three key objectives of the bill are, firstly, to improve ongoing economic and social viability for those three nations of the Realm; secondly, to recognise the close constitutional relationships; and thirdly, to ensure that New Zealanders have options for retirement, because this, actually, is an option not only for those descendants who may want to return home to their nations but also for other New Zealanders. In fact, there are a number of expats who are living in those countries now, who have gone back and said \u201CThis is a place where I want to retire.\u201D This gives them that opportunity as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to make mention of a report, and I know that Carmel Sepuloni talked about the report, which was submitted in 2010. In fact, I have got the report here. She was a part of the inquiry into New Zealand\u2019s relationship with South Pacific countries. In that report, it actually talks about Realm of New Zealand entities, and responsibilities to New Zealand citizens overseas. I think it is quite important because it does talk about the challenge of depopulation. When I think about one of the key objectives, which is improving ongoing economic and social viability for these countries, this bill attempts to do that. In fact, it talks about the statistics where in the Cook Islands alone it is depopulating by some 500 people leaving the country, and that is a real concern for it. In a decade it has gone from 18,000 to 12,000, which is now the current population, and that fluctuates during the holiday breaks. So this is becoming a real concern. This bill, then, is intended to ensure that it actually tries to address that issue as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe second thing about the bill is recognising close constitutional relationships. In fact, the report goes further in its recommendations, and, in its first recommendation, acknowledges that among the Pacific Island States the priority should be given to assisting those territories with which New Zealand has a special constitutional relationship. So, again, what I would like to commend is the fact that the bill is actually fulfilling some of the recommendations that are in the report. In fact, I want to go even further. On this, it talks not only about what this bill may fulfil but also about things that, under a National Government, we would also be able to do, like the Pacific Parliamentary and Political Leaders Forum, which was held in 2013. Again, other Governments have talked about this, but, actually, under a National Government, we have been able to deliver that\u2014the first it has ever had. It is the same thing again: the priority over here is to support these Realm nations, and, again, under a National Government, we have been able to deliver on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to then address the issues of concern, because out of the submissions, probably the most telling issue of concern was around the 5 years over 50 rule. We know that, as it currently stands, a person may be eligible for superannuation if they, after 20 years of age, have served at least 10 years in New Zealand\u20145 of those years after turning 50 years old. I suppose Supplementary Order Paper 71 in particular has tried to challenge that\u2014to see whether we can remove that and whether there is some opportunity for, I suppose, an equity of consideration in their regard. I just want to contend that under the current status that the special portability arrangement, for people able to take their New Zealand superannuation or old veterans pension\u2014well, I mention the veterans pension here because it is part of that omnibus bill approach to this bill. I want to acknowledge Bill Framheim, for whom and for a number of cases even the Governor-General was a strong supporter in actually ensuring that the veterans bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f4cd56c98fb47629b26fd32d7df114f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220297db49c5de4c3389d4d0512b34c717\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e0a75b459854db1abf4ef921a060bdc\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: You just cannot bring him into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bb4634ddae640d4a62b7e9da9db77f1\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, apologies. It is better not to bring him into the debate. There was a special annuity that was given for a veteran who had served faithfully. In fact, there were four tours of duty. He was one of only four New Zealanders in Viet Nam to have served four tours of duty. I think the fact that this veterans pension has been part of this bill\u2014to acknowledge that and its amendments\u2014will go some way towards acknowledging, in particular, the contribution of Pacific servicemen and servicewomen who have served faithfully and who wish to retire back in their Pacific nations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EUnder that special portability arrangement for people to return, the arrangement is that after 10 years, there is 50 percent eligibility for their pension, and after 20 years, there is 100 percent eligibility. So the payment for special portability is more generous than for general portability. One thing about the 5 years after 50 rule aspect of the arrangement, and one of the reasons why that becomes important\u2014and I want to touch on three\u2014is that, first of all, this is equitable for all New Zealanders, irrespective of who has gone overseas. When you have been overseas and you have decided to come back and retire at home, you are still eligible under this criterion. In other words, you must still serve your 5 years. This is not discriminating against our Pacific brothers and sisters and those who are under the Realm, and I think that is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe second thing that I think is also important to consider is the arrangement with other countries where there is a special social security agreement. There is a reciprocal arrangement, financially, that those countries can pay back. So there is an issue here, and the reasons we considered in the committee and the advice that was given is that there is a reciprocal arrangement that can be made with those other countries. In those Pacific nations, in particular, they are not able to make that financial contribution or reciprocate that financially, and hence the reason why we think this legislation is important. We believe that the bill is actually equitable. We believe that the bill gives consideration to the special arrangement, and we believe that that is critically important for what we are doing to try to achieve that. We know that the costs are achievable for us. If we were to remove that, not only would it be inequitable for other New Zealanders, who still have to obey the 5 years after 50 rule, but also it would mean that it opens up quite a precedent for us that could, actually, broaden both the cost and the ability to be able to administer that back in the Pacific as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI round off my speech by saying that it is a privilege to be able to speak on this bill. I look forward to it going through the Committee stage. We believe that we have struck the right balance for the acknowledgment of the special arrangement with the Realm of New Zealand nations. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1c4f02ae3634846be9844ee2f924b5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1c4f02ae3634846be9844ee2f924b5e\u0022\u003EPOTO WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Assistant Speaker, with your indulgence, I would like to greet the families and the people watching at home. Kia orana kotou katoatoa na roto i te aroa maata o te Atua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI rise with great pleasure to take a call on this bill. Most of my references will be due to the fact that I do have Cook Islands heritage, but I was born in New Zealand, as Mr Ngaro also previously stated. I feel very deeply the desire of the people of the Cooks and of Niue and Tokelau that we do the right thing by them with this piece of legislation, because for me it is about nationhood. What is the quality of nationhood? We are members of the Realm of New Zealand. We have New Zealand passports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThere is a reason that it is important for us to support the Realm countries, because travelling on New Zealand passports has been one of the most significant reasons our home islands have become depopulated\u2014because of that ability to travel so freely. So in that regard, as the big brother in this context, we have a responsibility to those home islands to support them in their initiatives to ensure that our populations can return home and contribute to those home islands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EIt is about the quality of our citizenship. To be a New Zealand citizen should be the same regardless of whether you were born in Rarotonga or in Auckland. The quality of the citizenship should be the same. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EWhat is it about being a New Zealander? I was born in New Zealand, but I am very much a Cook Islands girl\u2014but I am a New Zealander as well. When you travel back to the Cook Islands, its people are very much part of the wider context of this nation. What they have done in terms of their contribution to this country has been extraordinary, and we should recognise their full rights of citizenship. It was one of the issues that was raised by the contributors and the submitters. They were asking: what does citizenship mean and what does it mean when we allow our sons and daughters to pay the ultimate price for this country? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThis country has been supported throughout its primary industry by people from the Cooks and Niue and Tokelau. It is no secret that there are quite large populations of Cook Islands people in Hawke\u2019s Bay because they helped with the picking of the fruit. There are large populations of Cook Islands people in Tokoroa because they contributed to the forestry industry. People from the Cooks and from the other Realm countries have supported the economic development of this country. They have supported and contributed to the culture of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EAuckland is the largest Pacific city in the world. Where would we be in New Zealand without such festivals as the Pasifika Festival and ASB Polyfest, which really show the richness of our country and our heritage. Cook Islands people have a special kin relationship with tangata whenua. We have a shared migration history. Our history is interwoven with the people of Aotearoa New Zealand, over and over and over again. Let us not forget the 500 soldiers who fought for this country in World War I under the New Zealand flag, some of whom perished, and the servicemen and servicewomen who currently serve for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003ELabour supports this bill and the proposed changes, but we believe they should go further. We are very supportive of the administrative changes, which mean that when you are ready to apply for superannuation you can do so from the home islands, as long as you have met the criteria. We are also very supportive of the fact that you no longer have to return to New Zealand to keep that application and those criteria alive, and that that provision has now had some changes to it to make it easier for your status to remain active. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EWe are very supportive of the other changes that have happened, but there are a couple of things that we believe this Government should actually take into consideration. This piece of legislation, after going through the Social Services Committee, has come through literally unchanged. So although Mr Ngaro can talk about what National has done, it has done nothing in terms of listening to those submitters, two of whom were heads of State\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdb91bb046264aedb3bad11548218475\u0022\u003EAlfred Ngaro\u003C/span\u003E: Not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022544664d32de5487fba48845865114d5b\u0022\u003EPOTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: It has done nothing in terms of listening to them around their major concerns. The major concern is the 5 years after age 50 clause. When the officials were asked what the financial contribution was going to cost if we removed that clause, their answer was \u201C$9 million to $21 million.\u201D In terms of the value of the contribution of the people of the Realm to this country, I would say that that is fairly small change\u2014$9 million to $21 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThere is also another consideration. One of the submitters asked me whether I realised that if a person stays in the Cook Islands for 5 years, that stay is part of their eligibility criteria to become a citizen of New Zealand. So if you can be resident in the Cooks for 5 years and that is part of the eligibility criteria to become a citizen of New Zealand, how can you not then have the 5 years after 50 as a resident in the Cooks? That was the key consideration of all of the submitters, bar about two or three. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EWhat does that mean in terms of what can happen in the home islands? This is something that I need to correct Mr Ngaro on, in a couple of points you made. One of the points you made was that you only need to be resident and present in New Zealand for 10 years after the age of 20. That is incorrect because this bill clearly states that in order to attract 100 percent of your superannuation and have that portable to the Cooks, Niue, and Tokelau, you actually have to be resident and present in New Zealand for 20 years. If you are here for only 10 years after that, you are entitled to only 50 percent, so I think you had better actually correct yourself\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211576c4b9d4c4412965264da3b88ccd5\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218744b846e0148cfb2500451861d48cc\u0022\u003EPOTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, Mr Assistant Speaker\u2014Alfred. I think you should correct that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022967328bf2af940eaa70118b7f83d1773\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Mr Ngaro, or Alfred Ngaro, or something like that\u2014thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a15ab36eedb14ae593bb589dae62f9ca\u0022\u003EPOTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry again, Mr Assistant Speaker\u2014I am getting a little bit emotional about this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThe other thing that is really important about the removal of the 5 years after 50 clause is that it would encourage people to move to the Cooks earlier. The whole reason that we want to look at removing that clause is that if you are already established in the Cooks, as a person, say, in your mid-40s establishing a business or working there, and you have got your families organised, the requirement to come back to New Zealand to do the 5 years after 50 means massive disruption to you. You are already contributing to the home islands, but then you are required to return. We think it makes much more sense to be encouraging people to move to the Cooks at a younger age, as many of my cousins have suggested that they will do. They have done a lot of work in their careers here and are feeling like they can contribute to their home islands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI realise that I am just about to finish up my 10-minute call here, but I want to just remind the House that 2 weeks ago there were crosses on the front lawn of Parliament with the names of Cook Islands men who fought and died for this country. For 3 days those crosses were on the lawn of Parliament. If that is not enough to encourage the New Zealand Parliament to support this bill and Supplementary Order Paper 71 to remove 5 years over 50 clause, I do not know what else is. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022026aaf3fe14b437d97f980cf05a3e547\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022026aaf3fe14b437d97f980cf05a3e547\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great honour to rise for the second reading of the Social Assistance (Portability to Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau) Bill. Can I say kia orana, taloha ni, and fakalofa lahi atu. I do hope I have got that right, with my southern accent. I must say that I have a connection to the Cook Islands\u2014not in the sense of ancestry, but I did propose to my wife in Rarotonga. Many people go there for weddings. I went to spend some time there for a friend\u2019s wedding, and looked at the beautiful country, and I thought \u201CHere is a good place where I would very much like to propose.\u201D My wife is actually from a landlocked country so I thought what a great opportunity it was to propose to her on a beautiful island. I can fully understand why not only people from Niue, Tokelau, and the Cook Islands would want to retire there but also all New Zealanders. It is great that this bill will give them the freedom and the choice to retire there without being resident and present in New Zealand at the age of 65. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThis bill amends rules for payments for New Zealand superannuation or veterans pensions in the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau. Currently, people have to be resident and present in New Zealand at the age of 65 to apply for their New Zealand superannuation or veterans pensions. Individuals need to have spent 10 years here since the age of 20, and 5 of them after the age of 50. The change will allow applicants who live in the Cook Islands, Tokelau, and Niue to apply for their New Zealand superannuation or veterans pensions from these places rather than from New Zealand. The effect is that people will be able to leave New Zealand and go to live in the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau after the age of 55, rather than having to be in the country at 65 to qualify and collect their pension. This bill has been a longstanding request from leaders of the Cook Islands, Tokelau, and Niue. We had over a dozen submitters to this bill, all favourable. As my colleague Alfred Ngaro mentioned, we had some from dignitaries as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI want to mention one group of submitters, if I may, and that was the Concerned Community Collective. The Concerned Community Collective is an informal group of Christchurch community leaders who are descended from people from the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau, and who came together in December 2014 purely for the purpose of this bill. It was great to receive their submission. Their membership consists of approximately 30 people, with the ages in the group ranging from 28 to 75, so it just shows you the appeal of this bill and the people wanting to submit. They all came from diverse background cultures, and it was very important and valuable for them to be part of this process and submit on the bill. The Concerned Community Collective said that it supported the Social Assistance (Portability to Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau) Bill and the changes it makes to the existing rules for applying for superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThe Concerned Community Collective and some of my parliamentary colleagues this afternoon have also talked about the unique relationship with peoples of the Realm of New Zealand, with the foundation of this relationship being defined by New Zealand citizenship and nationality of these countries. They were not too happy, though, they say here, that despite this, those from these countries of the Realm have been categorised as Pacific migrants and afforded the same conditions as 19 other Pacific nations whose citizens are not New Zealand nationals. But, altogether, they supported the bill and its intent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWe also had another submitter, the Royal New Zealand Returned and Services Association. If I can deviate slightly, it is the first time I have been able to speak in the House since Anzac Day, and I will just acknowledge the sacrifice of the young men from my region of Waimakariri and, of course, Canterbury, New Zealand, and these countries as well, who paid the ultimate sacrifice for the freedoms and the choices that we have in New Zealand today. As a young backpacker I was very fortunate to travel to Turkey and the Gallipoli peninsula and spend some time at Anzac Cove in reflection and also spend some time up at Chunuk Bair, which we held for some small amount of time. It really hit home to me the great lengths our young people went to to protect this country, and the great lengths that we must go to to ensure that they are remembered for another 100 years. I was very fortunate to be part of the preparations, which included the opening of the new building for the Christchurch RSA, the oldest RSA in the country; and the opening of the educational wing at Rannerdale Home and Hospital. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. Coming back to this bill, ultimately this bill reduces the need for individuals to be resident and present in New Zealand, which is a requirement for this special portability bill and very much feeds into the National Party value of freedom and choice. But as Alfred Ngaro mentioned, this is not just for people from these three countries but also for all New Zealanders, who will be able to go out and qualify for New Zealand superannuation or a veterans pension at the age of 65. I am thinking very much what a great place to go and retire. It could be like the Algarve or the Benidorm of the Pacific, and it is great that these people will get the freedom and choice to retire to these countries. We are not talking about a large number here. It is a small number of people involved. Tokelau and Niue each have fewer than 1,500 in their population. We are looking at a number of only 650 people who are receiving New Zealand superannuation in the Pacific, and 300 of these people are in the Cook Islands themselves. The forecasted numbers for this benefit are about 245 people, with an increase of about 16 per year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThis is acknowledgment of the constitutional arrangements and that these countries are of the Realm of New Zealand. We are removing the barrier that exists for these people who have to be resident and present in New Zealand to apply for their New Zealand superannuation or veterans pensions. It gives these retirees a lot more flexibility and it is also about supporting the economic and social development of these countries. We have heard this afternoon about the effects of depopulation, and it is great that these individuals will be able to retire and take their income with them. We also know about the hardship that it currently causes for people who have spent their 5 years after age 50 in New Zealand and have to return to New Zealand at age 65, and the upheaval that that causes as well. This will also be about individuals taking their cash flow to Niue, Tokelau, and the Cook Islands. They will be able to spend this and contribute to a range of local businesses and help to support employment. Also, it is about skills and experience going back to these countries. We know for New Zealand that a lot of young people go and do their OE, gain international skills and experience, and bring those back to this country for our benefit as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI must just challenge the minority view of New Zealand First. Really, it has no shame, to say \u201CCompare this to the generosity of giving full New Zealand Superannuation entitlement to non-New Zealand citizens from non-reciprocal pension countries after just 10 years\u2019 residency.\u201D I would challenge New Zealand First to stand up and show us the data for that. Normally, individuals have to spend 10 years here to get 50 percent and 20 years to get 100 percent. This is just typical migrant-bashing by New Zealand First\u2014absolutely appalling, and especially so with a bill like this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EIf I could conclude, this bill is about freedom and choice, this bill is about countries of the Realm of New Zealand, and this bill is about supporting the economic development and social development of these countries. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022 data-id=\u002200158280fc944effb9fa6dcc3bd68fff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200158280fc944effb9fa6dcc3bd68fff\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take the second call for the Greens on the Social Assistance (Portability to Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau) Bill. We support the bill on the basis that it is a step in the right direction towards ensuring the citizens of the Realm of New Zealand countries\u2014Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau\u2014who are also citizens of New Zealand, have better access to New Zealand superannuation and the veterans pension. But we have the same sort of concerns that have been raised by previous speakers on this side of the House, particularly Carmel Sepuloni and Poto Williams, about whether this bill goes far enough. Certainly, the opinion that was coming from the submitters was that this bill did not go far enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EUnder the current system, people wishing to access New Zealand superannuation or the veterans pension have to be resident and present in New Zealand at the time of applying for the payments. As well as that, they must have lived in New Zealand for at least 10 years as an adult over 20\u2014if it is 10 years, they can access 50 percent of the payments later on, and they must have lived here for 20 years to get the full payment of superannuation\u2014and they must have lived in New Zealand for at least 5 years since the age of 50. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EFor the people from the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau who have lived and worked in New Zealand as adults for 10 years, or 20 years, this bill will still require them to live here for 5 years after the age of 50 to be eligible for the payments, but what this bill does change is that they do not have to be resident and present after that. They can access superannuation and the veterans pension from their home island countries. It means that older people from these island communities can return to their homelands, access those pensions\u2014which, by the way, they have contributed to as residents and citizens of New Zealand\u2014and it also means, and this is a point that was made by the previous speaker, Matt Doocey, that other New Zealanders who meet the eligibility requirement for residency in those Realm countries can also stay in those islands and access superannuation or the veterans pension there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EBut the common concern from the submitters was around that 5 years after 50 rule. It was a very unusual step for the Social Services Committee to hear submissions from the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands, the Hon Henry Puna, and the Premier of Niue, the Hon Toke Talagi, and, again, their concern was expressed particularly around that 5 years after 50 rule. I understand\u2014and it says this in the regulatory impact statement, as well\u2014that this bill has been the result of Government to Government discussions for quite a long time and that the Realm countries have been asking for this for a very long time. So they were very clear that they were appreciative of the effort that was being made to clear this up, but, again, they did express their concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EWe heard from them how the current system has been a disincentive for people wishing to return to the islands of the Realm and we also heard firsthand about the issues of depopulation and the subsequent problems that it can cause for these small island economies. By enabling these citizens to live in the islands from, potentially, the age of 55 and still be eligible for superannuation, it removes that disincentive a bit, although it will mean that there may be disruption for people if they have met the criteria and have returned to their home islands before they have hit the 50-year age bracket. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EI just want to acknowledge, as previous speakers have done, the contribution that the people of the Realm countries\u2014from the Cook Islands, from Niue, and from Tokelau\u2014have made to our nation\u2019s economy. And I take the point that Poto Williams raised earlier about the service that those citizens have also provided in terms of our armed forces. They have provided to the social and the economic well-being of our society, and by allowing for this easier portability and ensuring that people can move back to their home countries and access superannuation and veterans pensions, it means that we are reciprocating and that we are helping with the economic development of their countries, which I think is fair enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EWe will be supporting this bill. I will be interested to see what the Supplementary Order Papers are like. At this stage, from reading the report from the select committee and the minority views, we are fully supportive of the efforts that the Labour Party is making to extend the eligibility so that we can remove further disincentives to people returning to those depopulated islands where they really need them. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u002250f0ce0465c1450094762b34143b2d21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250f0ce0465c1450094762b34143b2d21\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of the second reading of the Social Assistance (Portability to Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau) Bill. I would firstly actually like to acknowledge some of what Carmel Sepuloni said in her opening remarks about the importance of this bill in opening New Zealand\u2019s wider view on the special relationship that exists between New Zealand and Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau. Look, I have to be honest and inform the House that my understanding of the special relationship is relatively limited, and through this select committee process I guess I have had my own eyes widened to that. Perhaps it is because in Tauranga Boys\u2019 College the history was very European and World War II - focused. We did not have a lot of Pacific Island history, but it is certainly something that I have enjoyed being part of on the Social Services Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EAs we have heard already in the conversations around this second reading, we had a number of submissions, with six submissions turning up or being presented verbally and, of course, 13\u2014just over 12\u2014submissions in all. They all were broadly supportive. Some of the views that we have heard expressed here tonight around some of the areas of concern have, I think, been given more weight than is due relative to the perspectives that were shared, certainly when I was listening on the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EI do think it was quite amazing, actually, that we had a visit from two heads of State, Prime Minister Henry Puna from the Cook Islands and the Niue Premier, Toke Talagi. Initially, I thought that this was perhaps a symbolic gesture, but certainly, again, that perhaps talks to my newness to this particular topic and the relationship that we have with these three countries, because it was clearly far more than that. You could see it in the import that they brought to the conversation, the historic ties that they wanted to reference in their submission, and the importance that they saw this particular bill was going to provide for their communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESo it is, in my view, absolutely right that these three countries have the opportunities that are outlined in this bill, particularly the opportunity to return home from the age of 55 and, when they get to 65, to apply from their homeland for the superannuation\u2014should they wish\u2014to have it paid there, and, of course, to take their qualifying veterans pension with them, too. Freeing these people from the obligation to be resident in New Zealand at the point of application for New Zealand superannuation will I think provide significant flexibility and opportunity for these communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWe have heard already this evening, as we have stepped through this conversation, the feedback that we have had from a number of submitters on the opportunity that they think it will bring their communities. When you have had the population drift that has occurred from these three countries to New Zealand, the opportunity to provide a mechanism to enable them to return home to their original homeland and contribute from the age of 55, when they still have so much energy and capacity, it is very powerful, and I believe that it will be taken up in larger numbers over time than perhaps what is initially suggested, which is just under 250 initially. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThere was clear feedback\u2014and we have heard about some of that already this evening\u2014that the cut-off at 55 years should be made earlier or even removed altogether, but that challenges the overarching residential qualifications for New Zealand superannuation and veterans pensions, and, from my perspective, that would certainly be more than a step too far. It is really important, though, that we acknowledge that that was pretty consistent feedback from those who made the submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EIn terms of the opportunity to go back and contribute to their societies, I would like to spend just a moment reflecting on a Niuean friend of mine who is currently a schoolteacher. I happened to have a conversation with him about this particular bill and what this could mean to him and his broader family. He was open with me that he has not really historically considered going back to continue his educational contribution in his home country, but this particular provision is something that means he will now reflect on it. I hope that he does consider it. He is a renowned educator, and the opportunity to go back to his homeland and contribute in his area of passion and to then be able to be supported in terms of New Zealand superannuation is, I think, a really positive step forward. We have heard that it will not just be examples like my friend that we will see; we will see a whole lot of different people\u2014not necessarily those who were born in the islands\u2014take up this opportunity and perhaps see a change in the course of their life to head back and spend a decent part of their lives back in those three particular countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EI would like to spend just a moment reflecting on the veterans component of this bill. They obviously spoke with some passion about the changes that they think should be considered. I think that the way we have this bill written is fair. It is consistent with the position we have taken and the changes we have made recently, and I think that, on balance, they will see that it still is a step in the right direction. Like my colleague Matt Doocey, I would like to spend just a moment acknowledging their sacrifice, particularly those from the Realm countries who not only gave their lives in support of the values that underpin our collective countries but, out of all of the populations, for them to move from the Pacific to fight in those world theatres must have been extraordinarily daunting. Certainly, the feedback that I have had as I have studied this a little bit more over the last few weeks is that they found those conditions quite appalling and really suffered tragically from it. So I do want to acknowledge that, and I do want to acknowledge my own RSA in Mount Maunganui and the 10,000 who turned up at the cenotaph. It was quite an extraordinary outpouring of public support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThe specific submissions\u2014if I could spend just a couple of moments reflecting on them, particularly the 5 years over 50 rule, I have to acknowledge that most submissions raised feedback about the application of that particular rule and extending the coverage to all Pacific countries and also improving the existing provisions of the existing veterans pension. The 5 years over 50 rule was introduced in 1990, it has been in place for 25 years, and it replaced an even more stringent 7-year residency rule before that. I think it serves the right purpose, which is essentially that you need to have had a recent engagement with, or a contribution to, New Zealand society and the community before you are eligible for that particular superannuation. I think that is appropriate, and it would raise a whole lot of other equity issues if we started treating particular subsets of New Zealand superannuation applicants differently from others. In terms of the extending of the coverage issue, I think it is appropriate that we hold the line there, and that certainly is the feedback that we have had from a number of submitters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EI do want to talk just briefly about implementation. That was raised quite a number of times by submitters. We are obviously going to pass this measure. This is going to come in. It is going to be a great change for these countries. The risk here is that those who are available\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224349c8ed91b24853a94f5c5f79ce16f5\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora mai t\u0101tou. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Members, when we broke for the dinner break, we were debating the second reading of the Social Assistance (Portability to Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau) Bill. Todd Muller has 55 seconds remaining, should he wish to avail himself of the opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228516bd7b22504c1d9bd33c5668361715\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that has changed, actually. It was 29 seconds, we thought, just before dinner\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cbad788036341e1b1cea9600275c5ff\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Grab it while you can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7dd998557644174906de71b74a3f409\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but I suspect it is now down to 40. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EBut, in conclusion, this is a phenomenal piece of legislation, which needed to occur. We have heard from a number of speakers that it has broad support within this House. I do want to acknowledge my friend and colleague Alfred Ngaro as the chair of the Social Services Committee, who has reflected and deliberated on this bill. I think there is no better person to chair this debate and to be participating in it today. I am sure, as he said, he will get a lot of satisfaction in seeing it ultimately pass through this House, and it is a good gift for his mum and dad, who are hopping on a plane tonight to head back to the Cook Islands. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002271c0385bacc14fe38093195953a71401\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271c0385bacc14fe38093195953a71401\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Jan Logie. This is a 5-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022940af832ebe2489dae78b54d3726aeb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022940af832ebe2489dae78b54d3726aeb8\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a short call in this, the second reading of the Social Assistance (Portability to Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau) Bill. The Green Party is supporting this bill as well as Supplementary Order Paper 71. That has been presented, I understand, by the Rt Hon Winston Peters to address the concerns raised by submitters\u2014including most notably two heads of State\u2014regarding the requirement of 5 years of residence post the age of 50, which has also been raised by other members of this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EFor people listening, this bill, basically, improves the access of people who live in the Realm of New Zealand to superannuation. The Realm countries are Niue, Tokelau, and the Cook Islands. This bill sits on the precipice of resolving long-outstanding concerns that I am sure many members of this House have had raised with them over many years. It will enable people from Realm States who are living in those States to access 100 percent of superannuation if they have spent 20 years in this country. It will enable them to access 50 percent if they have spent 10 to 20 years on these islands as long as\u2014and this is our problem\u20145 of those years have been spent in New Zealand post the age of 50. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ERealm countries are part of our constitutional arrangements in this country. In Tokelau, for example, the New Zealand - appointed representative in Tokelau has the power to overturn rules that have been passed by their General Fono, which is, in effect, their Parliament. The economy of Niue is funded significantly by the overseas development and aid budget from this country. They have a population of under 1,600 people living on those islands, whereas there are 24,000-plus Niueans, I understand, living in this country. The Cook Islands obviously are in a different position, but, as with all Realm countries, their past and future are inextricably linked with ours. As has been noted in this House earlier, many men from the Cook Islands died in the First World War. We saw the crosses on the lawn in their remembrance recently. People from the Cook Islands contribute significantly to this House. People from all the island States have contributed to our economy and our society. Where I live in Porirua there are wonderful rare moments where we get to hear the Cook Island drums rousing us to action from the streets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe people covered by this bill have spent decades in this country providing labour, wisdom, and culture, and paying tax. It should not be seen as an act of beneficence to ensure that they can access the fruits of those labours. The Government has skirted the real issue of justice and the long-held concerns in this bill, sadly, by keeping in that requirement for 5 years of residence in New Zealand post the age of 50. I think we see this most starkly in the presentations and the submissions that asked for that to be taken out, including submissions from two heads of State. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIf we look at the example of Niue, where there are fewer than 1,600 people living on those islands, there is a call for people to come home to be able to participate in the building and functioning of that country. This bill, by requiring people to spend 5 years in New Zealand post 50 and break their participation if they have gone back earlier, or just calling them out, is not actually in the interests of Niue, nor is it in the interests of this country and our overseas and development aid budget. There are good reasons for this but most of them, I think, are that people have paid and contributed through their taxes and years of work in this country. They are part of our Realm and they deserve the recognition of easy access to superannuation within the Realm countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00222a4198737417429bb3b960c6731bee4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a4198737417429bb3b960c6731bee4f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Jenny Salesa\u20145-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022922e45f8f912486d9f40fd2010db12a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022922e45f8f912486d9f40fd2010db12a8\u0022\u003EJENNY SALESA (Labour\u2014Manukau East):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana. Fakalofa lahi atu. Taloha ni. It is my pleasure to rise and speak on behalf of the Labour Party in support of the Social Assistance (Portability to Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau) Bill. However, before I address the contents of this bill, I would like to first off acknowledge and honour the thousands of New Zealanders and M\u0101ori who were joined by 500 Cook Island soldiers, over 100 Niuean soldiers and a number of Tokelauan soldiers, Samoan soldiers, and Tongan soldiers during World War I. They committed themselves to the service of Aotearoa New Zealand and for so many of these soldiers there would be no return. They gave all that there was to give: their lives. No sacrifice could be greater. It is especially fitting to honour and remember them at this time because so many of these people who will benefit from the changes proposed by this bill or their ancestors have fought for New Zealand, leaving behind their loved ones in the Pacific Islands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWe support this bill because it is the right thing to do. It is indeed a step in the right direction towards equal treatment of New Zealand citizens throughout the Realm. However, we should ensure that those who reside in the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau are not disadvantaged by the requirement that they need to be resident in New Zealand for 5 years between the age of 50 and the qualification age of 65, or disadvantaged when they are forced to leave their families and work commitments in order to receive New Zealand\u2019s superannuation. A number of countries are already exempt from this 5 years over 50 years of age rule\u2014for instance, the UK, the Netherlands, and Australia. It is only fair and equitable to allow New Zealand citizens from the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau to have this same privilege. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EAs you know, the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau are Realm countries, and we have a long shared history with them. We value the relationship that we have with these countries. The arrangements in this bill would make it easier for them to access superannuation and the veterans pension. It is a very important step that recognises the special relationship that we have with them. In addition to the people who have been recruited by New Zealand to fight in our Defence Force, many Pacific people, including residents from the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau, migrated to New Zealand during the economic boom, and they have worked really hard in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ELabour shares the concerns that were raised by many submitters to the Social Services Committee about the eligibility criteria requiring people to be resident in New Zealand for 5 years between the ages of 50 and 65 in order to qualify. We believe that New Zealanders should be treated equally and equitably regardless of where they are based\u2014whether they are based here in Aotearoa, based in the Cook Islands, based in Niue, or based in Tokelau. We in Labour support the removal of the 5-year resident and present status.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EFrom a health point of view, of course, it is definitely much warmer in the Pacific, which means it is less likely that pensioners and retirees will be in hospital for asthma or respiratory reasons as often as they might be if they were here in Aotearoa New Zealand, particularly during the winter months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ELabour supports strengthening the relationship with our Pacific Realm countries. This bill will support the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau. All of them are currently facing depopulation. By allowing residents in their senior years to return home and invest their time, skill, expertise, and experience, we would be helping the local economies. Let us do the honourable thing for the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau. Our Pacific neighbours gave wholeheartedly during both World War I and World War II and also during the time that New Zealand needed them, when they came here and helped to serve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI hear so many stories in my electorate of Manukau East from Pacific people who want to return home to retire. Despite the many achievements they have gained, as well as making New Zealand their home for many decades, there is usually still that conversation about returning home to retire. The frequent visits that they make to the islands are an indication of how important their lands, their culture, and their roots are to them. Labour supports this bill because it is about people. Hard-working and deserving New Zealanders should not be denied their right to draw a pension, whether they are here or in the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau. Thank you so much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022358b18e1e5bc49f4b80be0c5409764df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022358b18e1e5bc49f4b80be0c5409764df\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is with pleasure that I rise to speak to support this bill, the Social Assistance (Portability to Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau) Bill, in its second reading. Eligible New Zealanders can receive New Zealand superannuation and the veterans pension in the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau under the special portability arrangement. However, under this arrangement the eligible people are required to be resident and present here in New Zealand at the time of applying for those benefits. This bill is to remove that requirement of people being required to be resident and present here in New Zealand at the time of applying for those benefits. This amendment will allow eligible people to apply for their New Zealand superannuation and veterans pension from any of these three island countries\u2014the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau\u2014at the age of 65. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ECurrently, there are around 650 people receiving New Zealand superannuation in the Pacific. Out of these 650 people, around 300 are in the Cook Islands. It is estimated that with this amending legislation going through there will be around 245 people who may benefit and there will be an additional 16 people per annum. If you look at this number of 245 people becoming eligible straight away after this legislation has gone through and then the addition of 16 per annum, it does not look like a big number, but if we look at the population of Niue or Tokelau, then it is a significant number. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESome of these people from these island countries have a strong desire to go back to these island countries when they retire. What happens currently is that they live here in New Zealand until they are 65. They apply for these benefits and after that those who wish to go back return to the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau. They do not want to go back to these islands and, once they have reached the eligibility criteria, have to come here and apply at the age of 65, because that causes disruption in their lives, which is understandable. If they leave New Zealand permanently to go to any of these three island countries of the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau before the age of 65, then they lose their entitlement to receive New Zealand superannuation. So the thinking behind this bill is that those people who wish to return to any of these three island countries before the age of 65 in order to contribute to their island countries should be able to do so, and they should not be required to wait until the age of 65. By the time they reach 65, even if they had decided originally to go back to their island countries, they may be unable to do so because of so many other factors kicking in like the age factor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo this bill is actually going to fix this situation. This bill is going to remove this requirement of people having to be in New Zealand at the time of applying for their New Zealand superannuation or veterans pension. Currently there is a residence requirement. For people to be eligible for New Zealand superannuation they should have lived here in New Zealand for 10 years since the age of 20, including 5 years after the age of 50, which means that people can go back at the age of 55. That is what this bill is about. After this bill goes through it will make it possible for people to return to these three island countries at the age of 55, and they can then apply for their New Zealand superannuation or veterans pension at the age of 65 from any of these three island countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThis change will not be restricted to only citizens of these three island countries of Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau. Other New Zealanders who are eligible for New Zealand superannuation can also go and retire in any of these three island countries and then apply for New Zealand superannuation when they reach the age of 65. So the question that comes up is why this provision is available to only these three island countries and is not extended to other island countries. As other contributors have mentioned, this is because of the special close constitutional ties with these three island countries of the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau, because of which they enjoy shared New Zealand citizenship and unique legal arrangements. The Cook Islands and Niue have adopted constitutions enabling them to have self-government in free association with New Zealand. This allows Cook Islanders and Niuean people to share New Zealand citizenship while they run their own affairs, whereas Tokelau is a non - self-governing territory of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EAnother concern that came up was about the depopulation of these three island countries. That is, again, understandable because young people and people with special skills are always looking for opportunities, and to get those opportunities they migrate to New Zealand, but then these island countries want to get these people back because they are facing this issue of depopulation. With this amendment people will be able to return to these three island countries at the age of 55, so in a way we will be able to help these island countries with this problem as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIn the Social Services Committee we received and considered 13 submissions. Six submissions were heard orally. There were some high-profile submitters, as we heard before. I am really grateful to those submitters who took time to make those submissions, those who came to the select committee and made their concerns heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EOne main area that was very widely discussed was this rule of 5 years after the age of 50. Today also we have heard about this. There is this Supplementary Order Paper 71 from New Zealand First and I understand that the Labour Party also has that concern about the 5 years after the age of 50 rule. This came up because these island countries would like to see these people return to these island countries of the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau before the age of 55 so that they are able to effectively contribute to the economy of these three island countries. But even New Zealanders who go overseas and then come back are also required to fulfil this condition of 5 years after 50, so it would be unfair to remove this condition only for people who want to go back to the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau. It would be inequitable to remove this requirement for these three island countries only. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIt is hoped that these changes will benefit these three island countries. It is very difficult to quantify the benefit that these three island countries will have in dollar terms and it is also difficult to quantify the cost of this amendment to us here in New Zealand. As I said before, we know that it is estimated that 245 people will be benefiting from this legislation going through. There will be this cost of paying superannuation to these 245 people. Then there is this rate of 16 people per annum who will be added to the list, so there will be that additional cost to the Crown. Also, it is likely that more people will be returning to these island countries because after this legislation goes through they will be able to go back at the age of 55. This money that is paid in New Zealand superannuation will not be in our economy\u2019s circulation; it will be in the circulation of their economies, so that will benefit those island countries. That is another cost to us. It is very difficult for us to calculate the exact dollar value of the benefit for these three island countries or the cost to us here in New Zealand. Overall, this bill is a positive step towards our relationship with these three island countries. I support the bill and commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u00223781a7bf5437443f9754785579136a17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223781a7bf5437443f9754785579136a17\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E I want to state categorically for the House how proud I am to be a New Zealander, but that I am also equally proud of my Samoan heritage. I want to place that before the House tonight as we debate this bill with reference to the people of Niue, the Cook Islands, and Tokelau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe Samoan in me would also like to say to members of this House how proud I am, as a New Zealander of Samoan heritage, that when it comes to things of the Pacific, it seems there has been a shift over the years. You will recall, Mr Deputy Speaker, that as a young man in the 1970s I hated Parliament, particularly the Government of the time and what occurred during that period. But over the years there has been a shift. I want to commend that shift, which has also included the will of members of Parliament, throughout the various political parties, to come together, united, around supporting the people of the Pacific. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EWith reference to this bill, however, although the Labour Party supports it, as my colleagues who spoke earlier, particularly Poto Williams, said, the Government could have done more. It has not done what I believe is the right thing to do with reference to the people of the Realm of New Zealand. In my earlier speech in the first reading, I referred to the people of Niue, the Cook Islands, and Tokelau as the forgotten people. I think they are the forgotten people because most New Zealanders have very little, if any, understanding that these people are New Zealanders. We are talking about New Zealand citizens who live on soil that is referred to as the Realm of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EOne has to ask, if we are limiting their rights as New Zealand citizens by placing this 5-year condition on them, what the difference is between people living in Niue, the Cook Islands, and Tokelau, referred to as the Realm islands, and those living on Waiheke Island and Stewart Island. What is the difference? The Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau use the New Zealand passport, they use the New Zealand dollar in their economies, and although they are, fortunately, bilingual, English is the predominant language. So why is the Government wanting to continue to treat these New Zealanders as if they are not full New Zealand citizens, as if they are second-class citizens? That is the argument we will continue to push this Government on, because, although, yes, it is welcome that the change in this bill allows people from these Realm countries to return to the islands once they have been able to meet the criterion of 5 years after the age of 50 and to receive their pension at age 65, why must they be forced to do that when they are New Zealand citizens living on soil that is regarded as New Zealand soil? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI note that the Cook Islands became a British protectorate in 1888, and Niue became a member of the New Zealand Realm in 1901. Tokelau became a protectorate of the United Kingdom and a territory of New Zealand in 1877. So it is not something that just happened overnight. The UK took over and gave the Cook Islands protection because it was afraid of what the French might do. If you look further, New Zealand had a role to play in the 1800s when the United Kingdom, Germany, and America were trying to divvy up the Pacific. New Zealand left Samoa to the Germans and took over Fiji. Then in 1914, at the beginning of the First World War, New Zealand landed on the shores of Samoa and took control of Samoa. So this is not a one-night stand, if you like. It has been like this for some years now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI think that the House needs to be quite clear in its thinking that we are talking about New Zealand citizens living on New Zealand soil, not on a distant island that is not part of the Realm of New Zealand. I can accept that for Samoa and Tonga, despite what they might wish. But, firstly, these are forgotten New Zealanders, who must be recognised and acknowledged as full-bloom New Zealand citizens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EOnly a few weeks ago the country celebrated Anzac Day. It seems like new information to many New Zealanders when we say to them that 500 Cook Islanders volunteered to fight for the empire on behalf of New Zealand. They fought in the First World War and the Second World War, and 150-plus Niueans fought in the First World War. That is why they were often forgotten in the action\u2014they were either small in numbers or were referred to as M\u0101ori because Sir M\u0101ui P\u014Dmare was trying to raise the number of M\u0101ori for the M\u0101ori Battalion. At one time, and rightly so, some M\u0101ori said \u201CWhy should we go over and fight in the war when we are treated differently here?\u201D. Therefore, it was Cook Islanders and Niueans who were brought on board to fill the M\u0101ori Battalion. I have to say I also want to acknowledge the numbers, although very minor\u201433, I think, from Samoa, and individuals from Tonga and Fiji\u2014who also took part in that war. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe point I am making is that I am glad Parliament, this House of ours, is united in terms of the Pacific. I wholeheartedly, along with my colleagues in the Labour Party, support this bill. I want to say to the Government that it can do more, but it first needs to recognise that this is not a different group of people. They are not foreigners. They are New Zealand citizens living on the soils of New Zealand, in the Realm of New Zealand. I think there was room for the Government to seriously consider the removal of the condition it had placed. There is a Supplementary Order Paper, which will be introduced by New Zealand First, that I look forward to debating. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI think it was Poto Williams, in one of the select committee sessions, who asked how much it would cost if we did away with that condition. I think it was to the tune of $9 million to $21 million. I followed it up with a question. I asked the officials \u201CHow much would it save New Zealanders if we allowed that to happen?\u201D\u2014if we allowed people in Niue, Tokelau, and the Cook Islands full rights to receive the full pension. They could not answer that\u2014they could not answer. I have to ask why the Government did not do any work in terms of identifying the ongoing savings if this took place, and the long-term benefits to the relationship of New Zealand and these Pacific Islands, which are in the Realm of New Zealand and whose people are New Zealand citizens. I think if the Government seriously looked at that, it would find that there would be savings in more people returning to retire in the islands, in the same way that Aucklanders retire to Waiheke Island in the Hauraki Gulf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u002224cc2786a1f643c2a417b8ca4946b5ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224cc2786a1f643c2a417b8ca4946b5ac\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak on the Social Assistance (Portability to Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau) Bill. I would like to start by mentioning what my colleague Su\u2019a William Sio was just talking about across the House in regard to the only really successful landing that New Zealand did in the First World War, on 29 August 1914, when we landed in Samoa without a shot being fired or a life being lost. We ran the Union flag\u2014as it was in those days\u2014up the pole without any resistance whatsoever. So we do have a special relationship with our Pacific Island neighbours, particularly the three nations of the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau that we are talking about this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI think we were reminded earlier this evening by Alfred Ngaro that the triple star in our national anthem actually refers to those islands, which I suspect most people do not realise. I think that is something that we should actually ponder from time to time, because it is quite important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EDespite what is being said around Supplementary Order Paper 71 around the 5 years after 50 stipulation, I think it would be quite wrong to fix an inequity by creating another one, because, effectively, no New Zealander is allowed to come home without meeting that 5-year rule and then claim superannuation, even if they want to live here. So we would be creating another inequity in order to fix one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI am getting the signal, so it is with great pleasure that I commend the bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a01ef35b5f7403896f3245c4b382a25\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Business Number Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5ed5b47095a4091a29c0f0f80a94a44\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u002256c6bba69c734d92900199ff515e4b73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256c6bba69c734d92900199ff515e4b73\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the New Zealand Business Number Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Commerce Committee to consider the bill. The New Zealand Business Number will help to reduce costs that businesses face when dealing with the Government. The New Zealand Business Number is part of the Better for Business \u2013 Result 9 programme of the Government\u2019s Better Public Services initiative, which aims to reform the public sector to provide high-quality, flexible, and cost-effective public services in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003ECurrently, eight key Government agencies collectively provide over 700 different services to New Zealand businesses. The quality and speed of these services makes a difference to businesses\u2019 ability to perform, grow, and export. Of the about 1.3 million New Zealand businesses, 90 percent of them have contact with one or more Government agencies at least once a year. An estimated 30 million interactions occur between public sector agencies and small to medium sized enterprises every year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe public sector is currently organised\u2014as it has been for many, many years\u2014as a series of vertical agencies that operate in relative separation from each other, according to their mandates and functions. This vertical structure of the public system does have its challenges. It results in duplications of transactions, and therefore inefficiencies, from each agency developing the same capability. It is no longer fit for purpose in this modern world. Government agencies need to perform better to secure outcomes that matter to New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EIn terms of the business sector, businesses find interacting with the Government to be at times confusing, unproductive, and time-consuming. The compliance costs of dealing with the Government can adversely affect the productivity of a business or impact on the potential for economic growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EBusinesses have been telling us they want to spend more time on their business and less time on the administration of that business. Estimates suggest that repeated registration processes are estimated to cost New Zealand businesses up to $34 million a year in lost productivity alone, maintaining core business data with Government agencies can cost business up to $26 million a year, and between 50 and 60 percent of business details are replicated on over 250 Government forms. Although 30 percent of sole traders and nearly a quarter of companies change some of their details each year, around only half of them tell the Government about the change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EBusinesses want joined-up Government services and more certainty and less confusion when interacting with the Government. They want an infrastructure that better enables and supports e-commerce and business innovation. In a nutshell, giving businesses a New Zealand Business Number will enable service integration and innovative, time-saving administration solutions between businesses, their suppliers, and the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThis programme has been worked on for a period of time and it is now time to get this bill into the House to deal with some of the legislative issues around the New Zealand Business Number. In practice, businesses will no longer have to keep updating their data with a myriad of agencies but will be able to start, maintain, and cease business activities with the Government in one place, giving them more time to spend growing their businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the New Zealand Business Number Bill is to enable easier and more efficient interactions for business in New Zealand. It is required to enable the allocation of New Zealand Business Numbers to eligible businesses and to individuals operating as businesses. Over time the New Zealand Business Number will replace many of the separate numerical identifiers that agencies currently use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe bill sets out that there are two types of business entities: corporate and public entities, which will be governed by one set of rules, and unincorporated entities such as sole traders, partnerships, and trustees of trusts, where special rules are needed to address privacy issues. The bill establishes the statutory position of the Registrar of New Zealand Business Numbers and it establishes a New Zealand Business Number Register. The register will collect in one place a core set of data about a business. The data will be such things as the type of entity, where the business is located, and so on. The proposed types of data are set out in schedule 3 of the bill, and in the draft regulations. The regulations will also be released so the full list is available for consideration by submitters. Some of this data will be publicly searchable, and some will be public only if the business allows it. Government agencies will be able to access this data to update their own systems. In the course of time, it is intended that the agency systems can be used to update the New Zealand Business Number Register. Third parties will also have access to a business\u2019s information if the business consents or if the data is in bulk or aggregated form and no individual can be identified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EOne of the challenges when dealing with individuals who are in businesses is privacy issues that arise under the Privacy Act 1993. The bill will enable the allocation of a number to individuals. This requires an override of privacy principle 2. In addition, the data on the register will not necessarily come directly from the individuals concerned, and that requires an override of privacy principle 12. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe bill puts in place various protections around the security and confidentiality of private information. The Privacy Commissioner will be able to require the registrar to prepare a report that assesses the effects that the register has on the privacy of individuals in business. The bill provides the registrar with the usual types of powers to operate the register, make decisions, verify identity, investigate possible contraventions, and take enforcement action. Certain decisions of the registrar can be appealed to the High Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is famous the world over for the relative ease of doing business here. Only last week I was talking on behalf of New Zealand in South America, and many of the business people I met expressed great interest in our reputation in regard to the ease of doing business. But we cannot rest on our laurels. The New Zealand Business Number will take New Zealand to a new level in the ease of doing business. It is important we do that because we operate in a competitive world, and of course our businesses face other challenges such as size of market and our relative isolation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThis New Zealand Business Number will increase innovation in business services, and the future integration of Government services to businesses will be enabled by the New Zealand Business Number Bill. I have pleasure in commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u002268d1833bad654655b8975b9c92ae4061\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268d1833bad654655b8975b9c92ae4061\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E The aims of this bill are indeed laudable. As they are outlined in the bill itself, they involve an attempt to achieve the Government\u2019s objectives as recorded in its objective No. 9, which is to reduce by 25 percent the cost of dealing with the Government. A lot of businesses do have a significant cost involved in dealing with the Government, particularly those businesses that have only one or two employees. Some spend up to 20 percent of their turnover on tax compliance. Red tape is, of course, the No. 1 complaint that a member of Parliament comes across when asking what it is like for businesses on a day-to-day basis dealing with the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI think it is a sad indictment on this Government\u2019s progress that Steven Joyce could give that speech describing a siloed Government environment and the handbrake on economic growth that that represents. He gave it unashamedly, without blinking. He tried to say that this is something that needs addressing. Well, it is, but somewhere along the line this Government needs to stand up and own the fact that 7 years have passed, and the situation has not improved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EOur problem with this bill is that it is at risk of adding just another number. This number risks adding an additional burden of compliance to the systems already in place for business, and the compliance costs are already quantified in the regulatory impact statement that we have sitting here on the Table. For those who are watching at home\u2014and I have met a few people over the course of the last week who do watch Parliament TV; I am reliably informed they are out there\u2014we have been presented with a 38-page regulatory impact statement. It is common for these to be about four or five pages long. When you get a 38-page one, alarm bells start going off. The department concerned is worried that this idea has a number of fish-hooks in it that have not properly been considered by the Government. Then it has a follow-up regulatory impact statement of nine pages, just in case it did not get them all in the first one. This department, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, is concerned that we have a ministry here that is being forced to take up an idea of the Minister\u2019s that is a little bit half-baked, and that comes out in the regulatory impact statement we have in front of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESo what kinds of concerns do the officials have? Primarily, they are concerned that there is really no evidence that this kind of approach has worked overseas, so they do not have a basis upon which to make a solid judgment about whether it would be good or whether it would not be good. The second set of concerns revolves around the uptake of the number, the speed of uptake, and the wait-and-see approach that seems to be put in place by the Government, which says: \u201CWell, maybe agencies will take it up. Maybe businesses will take it up. Let\u2019s see what happens.\u201D So that is the crux of the concerns of business around it. We have seen that this is a Government slow to really act to reduce red tape for business and, in fact, has increased red tape in many, many, many of the bills that it has put through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EA couple of examples spring to mind, one being the child support tax changes that now require employers to collect overdue tax arrears through their payment to their employees, giving them information about their employees they may not otherwise have had, potentially opening them up to disputes with their employees, and so on. That kind of red tape has not been thought about when the Government has rushed through the law. Likewise, the paper boy and girl tax\u2014the compliance system there, and taxation requirements that the Government pushed through. These kinds of thoughtless changes that have gone through have a very real cost for the people who risk their shirt every day in small business throughout New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party is concerned that we should have an innovative small business sector\u2014one that is growing and one that has the opportunity to generate wealth for New Zealand\u2014because our future prosperity depends upon emerging industries that are not bogged down in compliance that has been put in place by the Government unnecessarily. So Labour recognises the need to support businesses by cutting red tape where possible, and reducing the cost of business transactions for small businesses, sole traders, partnerships, and trusts. If this is what the bill actually achieves, we will support it right the way through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EAt this stage, however, we are prepared to support it only to the select committee because there is so much lack of clarity around the bill and how it will be implemented, and so many fish-hooks, that we want to receive the submissions at the select committee to see how business interprets the lie of the land, and whether businesses, when they have a good look at the law as it is proposed, think that it really will make a difference for businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe biggest initiative, of course, that the Government could undertake would be tax simplification. It has been done overseas. It has been done in Australia, it has been done in the UK, and where you do have businesses spending up to 20 percent of their turnover on tax compliance, it would be a big win if the Government undertook tax simplification. Again, where small business is concerned, it does not seem to have been very quick off the mark there\u2014it seemed quicker to meet the needs and concerns of big business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWell, Labour is on the side, and always has been, of the person who is struggling to get ahead, who is trying to make their way in the world, and the small-business people of this world are the ones we have in mind. That is why we are worried about the additional compliance that is proposed here, and the additional compliance I have already mentioned that this Government has placed on small business throughout its time in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe concern about the siloed Government approach that Steven Joyce raised is raised in the paper by officials\u2014the 38-page list of concerns that they have put in front of the House\u2014as are the privacy concerns that the bill presents. Identity theft in the US has been a problem with similar systems, and we see that this is something that concerns also the officials who are advising on the bill. I have no doubt\u2014no doubt at all in my mind\u2014that my colleague Clare Curran will have a little more to say about the Government\u2019s track record on privacy issues and the risks that are presented by identity theft. That is her specialist area, and I am sure she will tell us a little more about that in her contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe repeated registration processes at the moment in dealing with the Government cost New Zealand businesses up to $34 million in lost productivity every year, says the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment estimate in the papers we have been supplied with. The ministry\u2019s concern is that this unique identifier will not become a unique identifier because of the way it is implemented, but that instead it will join the list of other business numbers produced by the Government that are part of this constant churn of reregistration, of working out which number to deal with when you are dealing with the Government, rather than being the simple system that ought to be in place. Again, it says: \u201CMaintaining core business data with government agencies costs businesses up to $26 million each year; between 50 and 60 percent of business details are replicated on over 250 government forms.\u201D These are shocking numbers. This is the shocking reality of a Government that seems to be out of ideas. It has been very slow to move on these issues, and here again is moving with a half-baked solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI think that perhaps one of the most telling paragraphs in this regulatory impact statement is paragraph 16 in here. It states: \u201CThe NZBN has already been allocated to companies in New Zealand. Ministers would like to extend the NZBN to all businesses to enable a digitally-based economic infrastructure.\u201D That is all well and good, but then it says: \u201COur options are therefore constrained to consideration of the best way to extend the NZBN to all businesses.\u201D Therein lies the rub. The officials have recognised that despite their 38 pages and further nine pages of concerns, Ministers are determined to press ahead with this, regardless of the consequences. They want to be seen to be doing something about making business easier and business compliance easier, but the real test will be when the rubber hits the road, and I am sure we will hear from businesses when they present to the select committee on whether this will really work for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government, of course, that came in strong on promises but seems to be becoming stronger and stronger on excuses. It is a Government that seems to be tired and out of ideas. Now we have some half-baked ones being thrown up. We hope they can be knocked into shape in the select committee so that they really do make a difference for business in New Zealand because we do need our small business sector to prosper for the good of all New Zealand. We will support this bill to the select committee, and we will see what comes of it there. Labour will be concerned to see that it really does make life simpler for those people who risk their shirt every day in order to better their own lot, and to better the lot of the families around them and the people they care about\u2014the New Zealand business people. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022d085642475bd4709a956ec87e3e3a458\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d085642475bd4709a956ec87e3e3a458\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to rise to speak on this first reading of the New Zealand Business Number Bill. Before I actually talk a little bit about the substance of the bill, I would like to commend the member who just sat down, David Clark. I look forward to working with him and his colleagues opposite in the Commerce Committee because I think we do actually work quite well together. Having said that, I commend the member for saying that he does not like an extra layer of bureaucracy. I think the member came in in 2011 and does not really remember the times when the previous Labour Government was in power and there were extreme layers of bureaucracy that this Government has been spending a lot of time unravelling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis New Zealand Business Number Bill is part of the Government\u2019s Better Public Services agenda. It aims to reduce the cost to businesses of dealing with the Government by 25 percent by 2017. I know that Dr Clark, just before he sat down, said that he wants this to benefit the hard-working community\u2014people who work for their families, and, you know, everyone. That is everyone, not just businesses. He mentioned the fact that there are already 1.1 million New Zealand Business Numbers extended to companies, and what this bill does is to extend it even further, to those that are not necessarily companies\u2014to those sole traders, partners, and trusts that also need to have this number in order to operate better and take the benefit from what we are doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAll key Government agencies that work regularly with businesses will be required to recognise and use the New Zealand Business Number by 2017. I actually have to applaud that. The New Zealand Business Number is a 13-digit number\u2014a single, unique identifier in a New Zealand - specific numerical series provided by GS1, which is a global standards organisation. Each number uniquely identifies a business and may be used in interactions with the Government and also with other businesses. The bill\u2019s purpose is to enable certain business entities to obtain or be allocated with a New Zealand Business Number. The New Zealand Business Number will make it easier, quicker, and less complicated for businesses to interact with the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI guess it is sort of like going back to one\u2019s country of birth. My country of birth actually has a registration number for all citizens who are born there. We are identified with a unique number for ourselves, as well as the birth date and the year that we are born. We are actually identified by a number. I suppose that is how the social security number works in the United States. To make sure that your unique number actually is specifically for you, Mr Deputy Speaker, you and I would have a different number so that you and I would not be confused. This is exactly the kind of idea, effect, that this New Zealand Business Number will have on businesses, so that businesses will not be confused\u2014so that one business will not be confused with another. They will have a unique number, specific to their business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis has significance because New Zealand Business Numbers will make it easier for businesses to work and interact with the Government as well. Businesses will no longer have to continuously update their data with a myriad of different Government databases, as businesses currently have to use multiple numbers issued by different Government agencies. I think of when I did a company search when I was a journalist. Every time I logged on to try to find a company, I was given a number. Every time I did it again, I was given another number, and another number. It was a constant numbers game. If I had one number identifying myself as a constant user of that website, and I was identified as a specific person who was allowed to use and connect with the Government agency, I think it would have made life so much easier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAlso, I think, small businesses operating in New Zealand are often sole traders that have to do everything. Not only do they have to work the job but also they have to invoice, do marketing, and drive as well. Often time is of the essence, and time spent dealing with office work and dealing with administration means time that is not spent on making the dollars for their families and their businesses. Anything that we can do to reduce the number that is spent on administration is something that is great, I think. As working mothers, even when we are doing internet banking or mobile banking, when we have an app that can actually identify our payees immediately so that we do not have to punch in the numbers all the time or constantly, it reduces the time that we spend on the internet doing these things. So for a business that is actually spending a lot of time on admin, if we can at least do something to reduce the time that it is spending on admin, I think that is something that is wonderful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI say that, specifically for the ethnic migrant communities who do business, admin is an added burden, often, because of the language barriers. This time spent on admin is extra, on top of the language issues that they already face. So if we can make life easier for them, I think it is a wonderful thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe bill sets up a New Zealand Business Number Register, where business information will be held, publicly viewable, and searchable. However, it is also designed to protect the security and confidentiality of information under this bill, and the privacy of individuals in business. I think that is paramount. I agree with the member Dr David Clark, who actually talked about the security issue. I think we all worry about the security issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288bbe4b4455b47e39445a14cb9ba6936\u0022\u003EKanwaljit Singh Bakshi\u003C/span\u003E: You should have taken his number.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298c9bafa517848718cbb862b9d141a94\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: I look slightly different from him, I think. I think the security issue is a very important one, and nobody wants a breach and identity theft. We have had issues, even before this Business Number. We have had in the past instances where people\u2019s identities had been stolen, and I think that will continue to happen. We try to put security protection in there to actually prevent people from stealing other people\u2019s identities, but when somebody purposely goes out to steal somebody else\u2019s identity, with the purpose of committing a crime, I am unsure as to whether anything could actually prevent them from doing so. So it will be very interesting to hear the public submissions on this bill. I look forward to the discussions that the select committee will have on these issues. I look forward to the advice we will get on that particular aspect of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EIn the future, once the regime is fully implemented, businesses will be able to update their details in one place. That has to be a good thing\u2014to automatically update others without businesses having to go through a complicated and time-consuming process, as I had earlier alluded to. This means less time and effort on Government administration and more time for business owners to focus their efforts on productivity, growth, and exporting their goods. Having been to Korea to sign a free-trade agreement deal, I think anybody who can grow their business, grow New Zealand, is doing a great job, and we should reduce the workload that they have in admin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis is a great bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u002230752a3aedd74634b86bae8a1c87e712\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230752a3aedd74634b86bae8a1c87e712\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E This is a fascinating bill. I am actually really looking forward to the discussion in the Commerce Committee on this, because, as the Minister for Economic Development said in his opening remarks, it is really about modernising the way that businesses interact with the Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204e7eabea5d940238351ab6dede18222\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Potentially.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb60114e117543d285bf9995c00321d6\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014potentially\u2014and trying to provide the best possible framework for that to happen. Labour is supporting this bill to the select committee; you have already heard that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI have mixed views on my first reading of the bill, the regulatory impact statement, and some of the submissions that went into the consultation around the development of this bill. On the one hand, I think the modernising of that relationship is critical; on the other hand, you have got to have in place the checks and balances to protect the privacy of businesses and those who sit behind the businesses. And you have got to ensure that you have got that balance right. On my first reading of the bill and the information accompanying it I am not sure that that balance is right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ETo put that in context with the enthusiasm of the Minister getting up and talking about how, you know, it is all a great new world and everyone will have a New Zealand Business Number, and it is all going to make things work a lot more smoothly, etc., I think you have got to look at the track record of this Government around its management of IT across the Government\u2014or its lack of management of IT processes across the Government\u2014and also its management of privacy and its devaluing of privacy. I am certainly looking forward to the contributions that will be made by submitters on this bill, because this is where the rubber hits the road in terms of the ability of the Government to act in an efficient and modern way while ensuring that the entities that it is relating to are protected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe phrase that came to mind when I was reading this bill was that it has the potential to be a big data-grab. That is where I would be raising questions and doing a bit of flag-waving. This is the era of big data. This is the era of data analytics, of the ability of entities to use their ability to get as much data as possible to give them leverage. The Government is a big entity. How it manages the data that it gets from its citizens and from businesses is a matter of trust. It is a very important relationship of trust. My concern is around where the checks and balances lie in this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI will use the analogy of security and privacy. In any society it is absolutely critical that you have got an equal relationship between security and privacy. At the moment\u2014and for those who are listening to Parliament by radio, I am holding up my hands in an equal way\u2014in any society, security and privacy should be equal pillars. In our society, the security side has gone up in terms of the way that national security legislation has been given more of a priority, and personal privacy has been given a lesser priority. Well, what we are talking about in this bill is the privacy of companies, of businesses, and of entities, and my concern is that there could be some compromising of that privacy under this bill. What we have to ensure is that there is level pegging around privacy and the ability for the Government to gather data and to use that data, and around what that data is being used for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EJust to illustrate that, I am going to quote from the Cabinet paper that lies behind this piece of legislation. This is all about the scope of this piece of legislation. It says: \u201CWe propose: extending the NZBN to all entities trading in the New Zealand economy, including sole traders, non-incorporated partnerships and trading trusts, and to state sector and not-for-profit entities; businesses not to be charged for allocation of an NZBN or to remain on the NZBN register; a new legal register, managed by MBIE,\u201D. The most important part of that proposal is to extend the New Zealand Business Number to all entities trading in the New Zealand economy, including sole traders, etc. So what that means is that the scope of this bill includes the individuals who are operating as companies, and there are concerns raised within the regulatory impact statement around that\u2014around what that actually means and what the implications of that are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere are concerns raised around whether or not it is compulsory to be on this register, and there are concerns raised around what sort of information is being collected. All of those things are absolutely critical. In this day and age it is time for us to have this debate. Therefore, my mixed views around this bill are such that I am concerned about the track record of this Government. But I certainly think that it is time to have this discussion. As I said, this is the era of big data, and the ability to collect data is really important, but it should be done in the most ethical manner\u2014the manner befitting a Government in a democratic society, one that is progressive and one that puts privacy at the top of its agenda. This Government does not put privacy at the top of its agenda, and this is going to be the challenge in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI just want to draw the House\u2019s attention to the regulatory impact statement, where it says\u2014this is in the table below paragraph 22 of the regulatory impact statement\u2014that \u201COverall privacy risks to individuals and cost to society of identity fraud are likely to outweigh benefits to business and to government\u201D. This is actually being specified in the regulatory impact statement as being a key risk. The Privacy Commissioner did provide advice, alongside other entities such as Business New Zealand. It is noted that the bill takes into account some of that advice, but it certainly does not take into account all of it. So that is why the submissions from the Privacy Commissioner and anyone who cares about privacy are going to be very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIn the regulatory impact statement the Privacy Commissioner has set out a series of issues that he thinks are critical, which includes that this bill should include \u201Ca clear statement of purpose for the NZBN and the register that is not overly broad or unclear; a specific limitation that restricts the use of the NZBN to business purposes only and a prohibition on its use for non-business purposes such as social service purposes; a definition of the personal information that may be collected; clear maintenance of the Privacy Act prohibition \u2026 against an agency requiring an individual to disclose a unique identifier for a purpose other than that for which it was issued; [and] an explicit prohibition against agencies using the NZBN for a purpose other than that set out in legislation\u201D. I am not sure that that exists in this legislation. Finally, the Privacy Commissioner says that \u201Can explicit prohibition to prevent agencies from requiring an individual to provide a New Zealand Business Number in order to receive\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00229ae216749732418d966b6e0a93f0a7a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ae216749732418d966b6e0a93f0a7a6\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member, but her time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00221384e41cf6e344c7a06a65e66bb0a12c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221384e41cf6e344c7a06a65e66bb0a12c\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the first reading of the New Zealand Business Number Bill. First of all, I would like to congratulate the Minister for Economic Development, the Hon Steven Joyce, who has initiated the process of best practice in New Zealand. This legislation allows the allocation of unique identification numbers to businesses such as sole traders, partnerships, and trustees of trusts. This National-led Government has done a lot of fantastic work in the past 6 years. This current legislation will further enhance the capability of providing better public services to all New Zealanders. Providing better public services, of course, is one of National\u2019s key priorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThis National-led Government is in no doubt that we need to continually strive to improve New Zealand\u2019s economic performance if we are to continue to live the enviable Kiwi lifestyle. In our economic performance as a country, that will determine whether we have jobs, our incomes are on the rise, our standards of living continue to improve, and we provide top-notch services that all Kiwis need and are truly entitled to. By way of this legislation, it is estimated that the Government will reduce the cost of doing business by 25 percent by the year 2017. This will, in my mind, without doubt lead to a more competitive and productive economy. That is what is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EWe need to create opportunities for businesses. Small businesses that are engaged in export have increased from 13 percent in 2007 to 21 percent in 2014. Similarly, medium-sized businesses that are engaged in export markets increased from 21 percent in 2007 to over 28 percent in 2014. It shows that businesses are growing and looking towards export, and that is what we need. We need more jobs, we need more growth, and we need new markets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThis Government has been focused in the past 7 years on opening up doors for businesses to the international market. The recent signing of the free-trade agreement with South Korea is an example of where we have created opportunities for other small and medium sized businesses. The easier and the simpler we make it for businesses to operate, the more time and energy we give to our entrepreneurs towards the expansion of their businesses, and towards using innovative ideas to create products and services that put New Zealand on the world map. The chain effect of all this, of course, is a no-brainer. We are creating highly skilled and high-paying jobs for our current and future generations. These jobs will create products and services that will build our exports, increase innovation, make our workplaces and lives safer, and build our natural resources and infrastructure for all of us to make use of. The effect of our pragmatic approach towards assisting Kiwi businesses and Kiwis with our economic management will ensure that the world-leading growth performances that New Zealand has shown in the past couple of years turns into a long-term, sustainable future for our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThis legislation will mean that rather than updating their data on a number of media, businesses will need to use just a single medium. The New Zealand Business Number will lead to smart administration solutions for all stakeholders\u2014businesses, suppliers, and Government. This will save time and effort, allowing all to focus on the real work. Furthermore, this information will be shared amongst Government agencies, so that each time a business needs to interact with a Government agency, it will need to provide its New Zealand Business Number. There will no longer be a requirement to fill out multiple forms and go through bureaucratic rigmarole. We are also working closely with our Australian counterparts towards developing mutually recognisable Australian business numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EEven in our conservative estimate, New Zealand businesses stand to save $60 million with this single piece of legislation. It is now up to businesses to take up this opportunity. The sooner all of them sign up, the sooner benefits will flow to all businesses. As I said at the start of my speech, this is only one of the several positive pieces of legislation that this National-led Government has presented in this House and to New Zealanders. I hope that during the select committee process we will have more interaction with businesses and see how they can benefit. With these words, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022833469e89c3b47c1bc932bc006722da0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022833469e89c3b47c1bc932bc006722da0\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand to speak on the New Zealand Business Number Bill. The overarching aim of the Green Party\u2019s economic development policy is to facilitate the transition to a smart, green economy, and so, to that end, initiatives to support businesses to reduce their time and administration costs are to be welcomed. The Green Party will be supporting the New Zealand Business Number Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EBefore I get into why we are going to be supporting the bill, I just want to set a little bit of context. A number of previous speakers have spoken about the intended benefits, mostly to do with the efficiency gains that may be available to businesses as a result of having these unique business identifying numbers. In terms of the number of businesses out there, some really useful information that came up in the regulatory impact statement is that there are 1.1 million companies already in New Zealand, 500,000 to 600,000 of which are actively trading, and that these companies already have business numbers. But in addition to that there is another entire half of trading relationships in New Zealand that are organisations that are not companies. So trusts make up 15 percent of trading relationships in New Zealand, sole traders make up 19 percent, partnerships make up 12 percent, and 4 percent is made up of Government agencies, non-Government organisations, and social enterprises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESo there is a significant number\u2014as many as half of all businesses in New Zealand\u2014that are not currently covered by the existing business numbers that are already out there. I want to pick up, in particular, on the sole traders and the freelancers, because they obviously cover a huge portion of New Zealand\u2019s business people, and, in fact, of our total population. There are, by some estimates, 270,000 or so sole traders, freelancers, one-person companies, and so on. So for those individuals\u2014and having spent much of the last 10 years of my life as a freelancer\u2014the administrative burden that comes when there is only you to run your business and to interact with various agencies and so on is significant, because every moment that is taken out of my day as a freelancer dealing with just data entry is an hour that I cannot spend growing my business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EOne of the interesting opportunities in this bill, if it was to cover sole traders, is the idea of an aggregator effect\u2014being able to, essentially, pull together some bargaining power across all of those sole traders and freelancers around in New Zealand. If we had better access to those people and were able to identify them more clearly, it is conceivable that we could actually build further services for them and maybe bring some other costs down\u2014for example, insurance costs or even energy costs, and things like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EIt does, however, raise a question of privacy, which I will come to in a minute, and which some other speakers have already referred to. One of the other benefits that may be available from this, which is also privacy-related, is the idea that consumers and employees who have been hard-done-by by some businesses may find it easier to get recourse to justice if those businesses are easier to track, because there is a sector of our society in which businesses change their names, or shut up shop and reopen over the road, and so on, in order to avoid, for example, court judgment costs. So one of the benefits of this approach may be that people will actually have more access to justice if they have been hard-done-by.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAll of those things do bring us back to this question of privacy. If there are something like a quarter of a million or more freelancers and sole traders and so on in New Zealand, that is nearly one in eight people in the entire country, and most of those people will be operating their businesses from home. So the question of their residential address and contact details being tied to their company does raise some privacy concerns for a very substantial portion of the New Zealand public. It becomes a sort of proxy personal identity number for a significant portion of our population. So we do have some questions about how the data will be managed, what the security and integrity of that data is, and so on. Of course, this is not an issue that is unique to this particular initiative, but as has been amply demonstrated across a number of agencies, it is a real concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe other concern that we have, which was raised in the regulatory impact statement, is about whether this initiative will actually achieve the stated objective\u2014that is, to increase efficiency. The Government has talked about something like up to $34 million worth of costs that could be mitigated across the entire economy. That is actually not a terribly large number, of course, when you consider the overall trading economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EApparently, there are no other countries that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment has been able to find that have the experience of having unique identifying numbers for their businesses where they have been able to quantify the efficiency gains to businesses, so there does not seem to be a clear precedent. Although we have been able to estimate that $34 million worth of benefits are available if we go down this path, we are not sure whether that will actually eventuate. Other countries\u2019 experience does seem to say that unique identifying numbers have been good for increasing e-business services. That will clearly be an increased benefit, and you can see how that will be available to businesses that are using these numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESo we do have some concerns, particularly in the domain of privacy, and it will be very interesting to see the submissions that come through on the bill and to see how those go, and to see also the extent to which we are actually confident that, having put in place this system, New Zealand businesses will be able to capitalise on the savings that we think that they may be able to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAs I said at the beginning of my remarks, it does seem like a very sensible initiative and pretty uncontroversial, generally. Any initiative that is sensible and does not carry a great deal of risk and that helps to reduce costs or facilitates the reduction of administrative time for small businesses, particularly for sole traders and freelancers, we would like to support. With that, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u00223b7b1a29f34e4245acb23342b0a1faaa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b7b1a29f34e4245acb23342b0a1faaa\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity this evening. I would like to suggest to some of the members who spoke on behalf of the Government this evening that the prospective benefits of this bill should not be overplayed, and that we should take this in full consideration and give it the due benefit of time and the input from business itself. Let us not oversell it, but, on the other hand, after years as a sole trader myself and as a business mentor in my local community, I do have to say that one of the common problems that is raised again and again is this compliance issue\u2014this conversation with Government agencies, and the repetitive nature of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThere is a lot of common sense behind this piece of legislation. On the other hand, New Zealand First is worried about several points that do need to be raised this evening. This bill is necessary for the furthering of the business numbering scheme started in December 2013. In that short time there has been a huge and broad comprehensive uptake from New Zealand companies, as has been mentioned several times tonight\u2014approximately 1.1 million companies, which reflects about half a million actually operating, active companies at this moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThis bill would move this number beyond these registered companies, and take it into the realm of small business\u2014sole traders, partnerships, and trusts were mentioned. New Zealand First believes they should be active participants in this scheme. We would suggest to the business community itself that it is a commendable and necessary system. Why? Because its ultimate goal is to ensure that there is an improvement in efficiency in business. This bill and its numbering system are about improving the interface between the Government and said business. So when the goal is to make conversation between the Government and companies\u2014and now small businesses, like sole traders\u2014that little bit easier, then New Zealand First will lend its support, especially if that conversation, which most small businesses dread anyway, does not have to happen again and again, almost ad infinitum, with Government department after Government department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThis bill has arisen primarily from the Government\u2019s laudable goals about meeting Better Public Services targets, particularly result No. 9. This specifically means that the Government should aim to reduce the cost for businesses of having to deal directly with the Government. This Business Number initiative was one of the first initiatives arising from the Better Public Services targets, which is great to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EBut I tell you this: New Zealand First nearly did not support this bill, even through to this stage in the House. Here we have on the one hand the Government telling businesses that the only way that this initiative will work is with rapid and broad uptake and that providing a better Public Service requires businesses to commit, and then, on the other hand, I have here before me this document. I hope it was not the New Zealand First copy issued by the Government, but this is the regulatory impact statement that I was provided with, and this is an example of several of the pages provided in the regulatory impact statement. I have shown this evidence before the House, and the particular page I have shown is a device used to measure the efficacy of such pieces of legislation, and what is the first thing that I notice? These blacked-out pieces of paper that run all throughout the documentation, with no explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EAgain, I hope that this is not just the one that was given to New Zealand First, but, on the other hand, I hope that this is not indicative of the information provided to the Opposition and to the New Zealand public. This page, which is one of many, is supposed to show us the building of this New Zealand Business Number system and Government agency uptake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EWhat this actually shows us is a Government that is not transparent, a Government that is not willing to engage, and a Government that does not understand the meaning of arrogance. What this page shows us is a Government that is not prepared for us to see the Government agency uptake or, perhaps, the lack thereof. What is it exactly that we are not seeing? How can the Opposition and how can the public understand just what this legislation will achieve, or hopes to achieve, if this kind of information is the case? We know that business will want to have this legislation tidied up. It still needs some work, and perhaps as we move forward the information provided\u2014or not, as the case may be\u2014will become available to the Opposition and to members of the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EDespite redacted info, and despite issues around its current form in terms of the bill itself, New Zealand First can see that the intent of this bill is sensible and reasonable, and so supporting it through its first reading is a practical step. We hope that then everyone will understand just what it is that the Government hopes to achieve, but that will mean that this Government actually needs to engage and work and talk with the New Zealand public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe problem that this bill seeks to address is that Government agencies currently take a siloed approach to dealing with business. This results in duplication and inefficiencies. So legislation that seeks to remove duplication and inefficiency is to be commended. However, New Zealand First would add its voice to the concerns raised around privacy and, in particular, the privacy of individuals, whether they are sole traders or partners in a business. This Government\u2019s recent track record around the implementation of good and sound legislation has, in my opinion, not been that solid. Here is another bill where getting it right from the outset is absolutely critical in order for the stated outcomes to be achieved, but there also needs to be consideration and finely crafted legislation that allows the work to be done but with the privacy of the individual being paramount. So the data collected must be for business purposes only. Some of the members on this side of the House spoke in quite a lot of detail about privacy, and I would support that further consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EBusinesses want joined-up Government services and certainty and less confusion when interacting with the Government. They want an economic infrastructure that better enables and supports their business. This must be foremost in the minds of the select committee members and the Minister as the bill proceeds through the House. Let this number not be just yet another number that businesses have to record and use to interface with Government department after Government department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First also sees this piece of legislation as an opportunity\u2014an opportunity to crack down on the abuse of the bankruptcy system in this country. There are too many examples where individuals are getting away with too much and they are not being held to account. We hope that this legislation will ensure that individuals will become accountable, and we would suggest that this could be done, at least initially, by linking the business number to the insolvency register, for example.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First will support this bill through its first reading, and we ask that this Government please keep in mind its promise of open transparency, and that it is also mindful of the individual and their right to privacy. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00229a2ade05111e453ba105e825e209a7d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a2ade05111e453ba105e825e209a7d4\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to stand to take a call on this first reading of the New Zealand Business Number Bill. I am actually quite pleased to speak after the previous speaker, Fletcher Tabuteau, and, in fact, other members who have spoken before, because I think this bill is being given the due consideration already in its first reading that it deserves, particularly as it moves towards the Commerce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI think no one is philosophically opposed, as I can hear it, at the moment against the notion of having a singular number to identify a business. There are naturally some questions that are arising around privacy and how that will be handled, but I think we on this side of the House are very proud of the National Party\u2019s engagement with business, be it large, medium, or small. I know that over many recent weeks, that enthusiasm\u2014in particular, by the small and medium enterprises\u2014has been shown by the countless questions given to the Hon Craig Foss and an attempt to continue to show the really good work that National proudly does with small to medium sized enterprises. I welcome more questions, not only from this side but, of course, from the Opposition, once it has finished reading and working out what it is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWhat I have to say as the MP for T\u0101maki is that I am very fortunate to have a number of business owners in the electorate. T\u0101maki is not a place of a number of businesses running per se, other than the usual likes of restaurants and cafes and various activities, but a lot of Auckland business owners are there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d126b2dcae35446eae508e618f12f413\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: A great place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ffdc1524a344c2995d8a3f4026ecbd3\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: A great place, indeed. But although they are pleased with what is happening within governmental procedures around business, they still want more change. One of the fundamental areas that comes up is how we can work better in a digital developing environment. I think one of the key elements of this to make it happen\u2014I am going to use two analogies in this speech\u2014and to make businesses more effective and efficient in a digital environment, is through the likes of a single business number. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe first analogy I would draw the House\u2019s attention to is obviously in the health sector. As the chair of the Health Committee, it is something that I am interested in, the notion of a national health number. We have had that for a number of years. I think it is very analogous to this bill\u2014the ability to have a single number that enables the Government and others to identify a particular person or entity and, in the health context, of course, to provide the care that is necessary. Like anything that comes down to a singular number, it often becomes very concerning how it is going to be used or misused. I think if we look at the health example, those issues really have not come up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIn fact, in more recent weeks\u2014and if it is slightly tangential, I hope the House will forgive me\u2014in the Health Committee we have had a series of questions raised around privacy to do with the Health (Protection) Amendment Bill and the notion of contact tracing. So if someone has an infectious disease, how do you reach out and make sure that those who have been infected are well looked after and identified? Some people were very, very concerned that using a single number, the National Health Index (NHI), may actually breach someone\u2019s privacy, but expert after expert, lobbyist after lobbyist, said that, actually, the NHI, this particular single number, is an incredibly strong factor, if you will, enabling us to provide good and right care, and that it has in the past been rightfully used. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo I think, in terms of the New Zealand Business Number, this bill, and the concerns of privacy, we can turn to the health sector and see an example there of something that is working rather well. The other element\u2014another metaphor comes in this case from the Ministry of Social Development, in which I worked for a number of years. So many people come into that department, again, with a single number, or are meant to come into the department with a single number. First and foremost you treat them as an individual. They come before you as a Mary Smith or as a Joe Jackson, and you engage with them there. But as we move, again, into a digital environment, you need a number to enable them to access the systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI mention that because, again, like the health number, it is a way to identify, but what is also important\u2014and I think this Government is clear on it\u2014is that you also need the systems in the background. In the Ministry of Social Development days, if someone came in through Work and Income or StudyLink, you had two computer systems to deal with\u2014the old DOS-based system called SWIFTT and simultaneously a new Windows-based system called, I think, UCV2. The irony of someone working on the front line was that if one single person came in, even with their client number, you still had to use two completely different systems to try to work out their full and correct entitlement. So I use that as a caveat around this bill that although we move, quite rightly, to a single number to identify businesses, I think that, from my experience, we want to make sure that the systems in the background are appropriate, because there is no point in having one New Zealand Business Number if we are going to have a multiplicity of systems in the background\u2014it will just confuse things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWhen I go out into the electorate or travel around the country, businesses want to work more efficiently. They want to, ultimately, save costs, and we as consumers want to see costs saved because if the business is doing well and can produce something more cheaply, then, paradoxically, we get it cheaper, as well. Businesses have been asking for a while now for this single business number, something that they can just use if they want to call up the Inland Revenue Department, or if they want to call up Work and Income, if they are taking a young person on, say, for a role through the myriad of activities we have there, so the business owners can ring up and be instantly identified. They know exactly what clients are involved. If they are going to be calling up even something like the Commerce Commission\u2014I am not exactly sure how far this Business Number will be shared across Government departments. I am looking toward the chair of the select committee, Melissa Lee. I am sure that is something that we will be looking at as a select committee as this goes through and asking what Government departments will be using and accessing this number. How will they be interrelating? But it is very clear, when I have talked to my constituents back in the fine seat of T\u0101maki, that they want something like this, the ability to just call up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESome have noted already\u2014and it is more in their personal context\u2014that they are using the RealMe system. Without being too advertorial, it is where you basically go down to the post office, or the like, and sign yourself up for a digital identity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247d10ab0ed314e1da976535775820f17\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: If the post office is still open. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022022ce6a91c7643ad8ed7b33bd24974c9\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am very happy to say that post offices are still open, thriving, and well loved in my electorate. I cannot speak for that honourable member\u2019s, but they are incredibly well loved. I have to actually thank New Zealand Post for the engagement that it is giving. I believe, actually, that it is a former member of that party who is the chair, is it not? Is it Michael Cullen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022103853e99ce64bda838f63c136fc47cb\u0022\u003EHon Craig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s been closing more than he\u2019s opened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2190687a5bb430aa86d9c6b435a1d33\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he has been closing more than he has opened. That is very interesting. But anyway, we digress\u2014we digress. We were talking about RealMe. Again, it is an ability for individual New Zealanders to go down to establish their digital identity, which means they can walk into a bank, for example, or certain New Zealand Post services, the Inland Revenue Department, and other places to actually access their services. That is exactly analogous to the New Zealand Business Number Bill that, actually, a range of New Zealand businesses, large and small, will be able to seek a number so that they too can most primarily, I would suggest, go online and access the services that they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThis is part of the Better Public Services agenda of this Government. It is something that the Government has been following right since it was elected in 2008, and something I have been pleased to be associated with since being elected in 2011. It is Result 9, for those boffins who are very keen to be looking at the documents, and I am sure Megan Woods is on to it now. She is going to be going through that paper looking for Result 9. [Bell rung] Excellent! For whom does the bell toll? We are here to deliver better public services\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228547a0bc938f4d71846610288d3ff2d7\u0022\u003EDr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, you can do ten. Keep going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a2a400aa879485dae611d6446f91eed\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: We are going to do our best, you see. It is all about numbers, you see. Ten is important. It is around Result 9 where we are delivering better public services to business customers, and one of the goals we have given to ourselves is to reduce the cost to businesses dealing with the Government by 25 percent in 2017. That is only 2 years away. It is something we are very keen on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe business number system is for a range of groups in New Zealand. As we said, it is obviously a unique identifier primarily aimed at the corporate and public entities, and those that are unincorporated. There is a bit of talk in the bill around natural persons. In other words, if you have established a body corporate, I assume, or sole trade in a different name through your trust arrangements, those too can obtain a Business Number. I think, quite importantly too for those New Zealanders who operate multiple sole-trading corporate entities and the like, they will be able to obtain several numbers for those entities. Again, the whole purpose of this bill is to make things easier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe do note, because it has not been picked up by other speakers, that there is a whole area within this bill around offences. It is one thing, obviously, to put something in place, but when you are making laws, making changes, for something as important as business, you need to make sure that people are using these systems appropriately. We have seen with other legislation in the House, particularly in the digital or the e-commerce space, that it is a new area and it is fraught with difficulties, so the bill at the moment is noting that a person who commits an offence and who knowingly uses a number that is a false New Zealand Business Number without a reasonable excuse could be subject to a maximum penalty and conviction of up to $250,000. Although I can see Opposition members smiling, that is incredibly serious and none of us would want to fall into this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThere are also offences for people who make or give authorised statements or documents to the registrar that are false. The integrity of a system like this is incredibly important. It is like the integrity of the Government\u2014the people know that that is fine and secure; that is why we continue to ride high in the polls. But it is the same around the things like RealMe. It has been the same as I talked at the start around the National Health Index number, and so forth. People need confidence in the system. So we are very keen\u2014very keen\u2014that that confidence remains. I am conscious of time. The numbers are against me. I sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022245b52522190429597a1768a073541d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022245b52522190429597a1768a073541d0\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. The Green Party is supporting the New Zealand Business Number Bill. As members of the House will know\u2014I am sure they listen very closely to Green Party speeches\u2014the overarching aim of the Green Party\u2019s economic policy is to facilitate a transition to a smarter, greener, fairer economy\u2014one that ensures that future generations will have all the benefits that we have, and one that ensures that every person in New Zealand has every opportunity to be the best they can be and are not undermined by, for example, a lack of money on the part of their parents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EContrary to what our opponents claim, I would say an important part of this transition is fostering strong New Zealand businesses, particularly those that work to support communities and the environment. We want to ensure that they are able to do so, and that they are not undermined by competition that undercuts them by increasing pollution. To that end, I would say the Greens would be very supportive of any initiatives that reduce the time and costs of doing business without compromising those higher-level goals of creating a greener and fairer New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThis bill, on the face of it, looks like a smart initiative that should make doing business easier and more efficient, especially for small to medium sized enterprises\u2014we think they are quite important. Assigning businesses one unique identifying number that can be used for a number of different purposes is a sensible way to reduce administration costs and make it more efficient. It should make it simpler for businesses themselves to interact with Government agencies as well as with each other. It could enable Government to better collect and share information that would enable targeted services and policies for business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe do, of course, have the same concerns that have been expressed by other members here in the House tonight about the impacts on privacy, particularly as this Government, the National Government, has a poor record. We have seen a couple of Ministers release private information held by Government agencies just to score political points. We have some real concerns about what that could mean, having this unique identifying number. Greater interaction between sharing of data means that the system becomes a little less resilient. There is this trade-off between efficiency and resilience, generally, and so although we will have something that is more efficient it is more susceptible to breaches of privacy and, potentially, hacking. I note from the regulatory impact statement that the Privacy Commissioner thought that most of the privacy concerns, for example, could be addressed. That is something we will be looking at very carefully and closely during the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe devil really is in the detail as to whether or not this will pay off. Obviously, there have been other moves towards centralisation like, for example, the Auckland super-city merger, which was supposed to deliver benefits, but in fact has made the bureaucracy ever more unwieldy for your average citizen to deal with. So it all depends on how it is implemented, and I think we will have to watch the submissions in the select committee carefully and explore the different opportunities. I am sure it will be an iterative process, if the bill is passed, of learning what works and what does not work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI would say that the opportunities provided by getting Government agencies to not be so siloed do not just apply to administration and the savings costs. For example, in this bill, according to the regulatory impact statement, we might see something like $30 million to $50 million in savings. When you spread that out across the entire economy, that is not really a huge impact. I would say that the Green Party is interested in finding even bigger savings for businesses and households in New Zealand. The big ones are transport, buildings, and energy. If we did those things smarter\u2014and we have the ability to do that\u2014then we know we could save billions of dollars each year for businesses and households and reduce environmental pollution. I think surely those sorts of win-wins are achievable in policy and are something that should be pursued by this Government if it genuinely believes in long-term sustainable economic development that looks after people and the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo although we will be supporting this bill, I think that a smarter, greener approach to policy across the board would deliver much greater savings to business and households here in New Zealand and ensure that we protect all the things we really love about New Zealand well into the future. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224735a91b131847ab938e436c4175ccb4\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe6ce2b93aed4b9e90f694aa26ae638b\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022202325ece0c34aa8b14ed13abd01a80c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Jacinda Ardern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00222697a7a0d891440094ec95d911cf8151\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222697a7a0d891440094ec95d911cf8151\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am sorry to disappoint the member Brett Hudson; I will be taking a call on this bill, on the New Zealand Business Number Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI think it is important when discussing a bill like this that we keep at the top of our minds the context in which business is operating. It is with some, I guess, irony that we are debating this bill, which is meant to be about improving the ease of doing business and improving outcomes for business, when we are so close to a Budget that was trumpeted by the Government as the Budget that would return us to surplus. That, therefore, would demonstrate to the nation that the economy is in good heart, that the books have been balanced, and that all is well in never-never land. That is not going to be what this Budget delivers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe are now hearing from a Minister of Finance, the one in whom the businesses are meant to hold great faith, who is the same Minister who stood up in this House today and likened balancing a Budget to weight loss, which I found extraordinary. So, apparently, if you set a goal of losing 10 kilograms but you reach only 9 kilograms, that is the same as a Budget surplus not being reached. Well, you cannot be a little bit pregnant, and the difference for business is that if a business is not able to balance its books, then it is not just good enough that it had a go at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283d9477613be4fd4807905e836e5a35c\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Business numbers. It\u2019s an identifier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022974fe0f90e3b480991686be0b7914460\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: So I do think it is important that the context be considered, because in the Cabinet paper small businesses, Melissa Lee, that were asked about what they thought about the business number legislation, which the Government is now passing in this debate, said, actually\u2014and this is relevant\u2014that it was not the biggest issue for them. So that is absolutely relevant. What is relevant to them is whether or not we do have a well-performing economy that means that their business is doing well within that context. That is what they want their Government to focus on. That is an important measure; it absolutely is. Minister Foss knows, because his officials were the ones who prepared that document and said: \u201CWell, when we consulted with small business, they weren\u2019t convinced\u201D\u2014they were not convinced\u2014\u201Cof the benefits it would bring for them.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI can see why they would say that, because when you come to Part 1 of the New Zealand Business Number Bill, it sets out in its preliminary provisions the main purposes of the bill, which include to \u201C \u2026 enable businesses in New Zealand to interact more easily with government; and (b) reduce the costs of business transactions in New Zealand; and (c) establish and maintain a New Zealand business number register \u2026 \u201D. There is very little detail on how that will explicitly deliver some of the cost savings that the Government has been trumpeting since year dot\u2014very little detail on that whatsoever. Yet if you directly compare that with some of the really tangible things that have been put forward by members of the business community or the Institute of Chartered Accountants, they have said: \u201CLook, if you want to look for things that will enable business to interact more easily with the Government, that will save them time, that will save them money, adopt some of the proposal that the New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants put up before the election.\u201D They included things like no more than 1 hour, no more than one form, making it really simple to file for the tax purposes of the Government. They have set out some of those ideas in a really simple way for the Government. That has not been picked up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESo if there are things that the New Zealand Business Number is going to deliver, which we can tangibly say will deliver X amount of time savings, I am pretty sure small business would like to hear about that, but that is not explicitly contained in this bill. There are probably already areas where we could be sharing information without having just that one number. I know Xero, for instance, has been putting a case to the Government over things like allowing Xero to be used as a way of channelling all the information that Statistics New Zealand wants directly from Xero\u2014a platform that so many small businesses are using\u2014to the Government. That would be a massive time saving. Allowing Xero and things like Mind Your Own Business, for instance, to speak directly to the Inland Revenue Department would make a massive difference to those small businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESo, yes, we are willing to explore this. We are willing to send the bill to the select committee. You are trumpeting a big game here. Let us see what the bill is going to deliver, but do not do it at the expense of some really practical ideas that the Government could be delivering on now or at the expense of the bigger picture, which ultimately is an economy that is delivering for our businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u002257aa78c19eb14d779aade7652e9644c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257aa78c19eb14d779aade7652e9644c7\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is an absolute joy to rise to speak in support of the New Zealand Business Number Bill in its first reading. For the benefit of the speaker who has just resumed her seat, who is a bit worried that doing this to help business might come at the expense of doing something else, well, seemingly unlike the Labour Opposition, this is a side of the House that can walk and chew gum. We look forward to doing a number of things, not just one at a time. This New Zealand Business Number is really in part about the Government\u2019s agenda of delivering Better Public Services to New Zealand. It is an absolutely measurable and concrete way of driving better value for New Zealanders, reducing compliance for businesses, and making it easier for people and for businesses to engage with the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThis is a really simple concept. If you have a business, whether it is small, medium, or large\u2014but there is a greater compliance cost on small and medium sized businesses, I think everyone would argue\u2014that business has to interact with a number of Government agencies. We have picked just a few, just off the top of our heads. Obviously, there is the Inland Revenue Department, and if your business perhaps is employing a very varied workforce you might have Immigration New Zealand contacts, you might have department of labour contacts, you will have ACC, you have got the Companies Office\u2014any number of Government agencies that even a small business or a medium sized business may be obliged to have dealings with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EIf you have got a situation where with every one of those agencies you have to have a unique and different identifier, then it boggles the mind that anyone could suggest that you need some sort of scientific methodology, rationale, and proof that somehow having one identifier across all of them could be anything less than more productive and more cost saving than having a different identifier with every single one of them. This is exactly what this bill is delivering. It is delivering the one identifier that a business can use in every dealing it has with any Government agency that it chooses to, or has to, have dealings with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThat is a simple concept to grasp. It is something that will certainly be grasped very readily by small businesses to whom, I would argue, the constant interaction with Government agencies is more of a bane than a boon to them. The idea that this will streamline those interactions is something that businesses will welcome, and we are very, very pleased to be delivering it for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I think is very, very important about this, and I would make a note about the previous speaker from the Greens, Julie Anne Genter, who raised issues of privacy. One of the good things about this is that supplying their core information once, that information, the core information about that business, will be shared with other agencies, and the business, if it needs to make an update, will be able to make the update once at its preferred point. No longer will it have to advise every Government agency about a change of address or some subtle change in purpose that the agency might feel is important. The business will do it once at the agency of its choice, the one where it likely does most of its business. It could be New Zealand Post. That is a possibility. It will make that change once and that will proliferate across the agencies that access that New Zealand Business Number. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThe issue about data privacy, I think, shows that the members opposite do not understand the data that is actually going to be captured behind the New Zealand Business Number and that is going to be shared. That data is the legal entity name, its registered address, a location identifier, a start date, the type of entity that it is, and its business status\u2014whether it is active or inactive. There is not a great hacking potential in that data. Businesses are not storing their customer addresses. They are not storing their receipts. They are not storing their inventories. They are not storing the heart of their businesses. They are saying they are an active business, based at this address, and here is their number. [Interruption] Well, sure. I mean it is a bit of a worry if the hackers want to get in and have a look at that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo you have got to wonder whether the Opposition members actually understand the information that is going to be captured and shared, because based on what they have been saying tonight, it does not look to me that they do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EBut the point on this is also that although we are expanding in this bill the New Zealand Business Number eligibility across a broader range of business, it is worth noting that we have actually already allocated about 1.1 million of these numbers to registered companies to date. In fact, we have got a reference group of about 1,200 small and medium sized businesses that we have been tracking progress with on the New Zealand Business Number and how it has been working for them. The reports over the last 6 months or so have reported back a net 7 percent reduction in reported effort in their dealings with Government agencies since 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo here we have it. We have got a reference group\u2014actual businesses operating in the real world\u2014using the New Zealand Business Number. Their reports show, and their feedback to the Government shows, that this has had a net 7 percent productivity gain for them in terms of their\u2014well, a net saving for them in terms of their interactions with the Government since 2012; that is a better way of putting it, I agree. That is definitely a very, very positive thing for them to have experienced. I tell you what: if I were the member opposite and I had a business and someone was offering me a 7 percent saving, I would not be saying: \u201CNo, give me something more. Take this one away.\u201D I would be grasping it with both hands while doing something else as well to further improve my business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272e90b22529244ecb3811105bb5dd214\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: You understand business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1f4ed06b7ce42beb723ea63303c1733\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you, Mr Bishop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EBut I would just like to say in concluding that Opposition members have also made a comment that is just a small thing. And at an estimate of $30 million to $60 million in savings set against the entire economy, you could say that is a small thing, just as you could say that half a billion dollars out of the entire GDP of New Zealand is a tiny thing as well. You could say it is a very small thing, but it is part of a larger plan. It is not one thing solely in isolation; it is one thing that is part of a plan. Like in our Business Growth Agenda, for instance, there are between 350 and 400 initiatives in that plan that go together to improve business outlook and promote growth and growth in employment as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo this New Zealand Business Number is part of another plan. We have already seen things for small and medium sized businesses like www.business.govt.nz, which is a bit of a one-stop shop for what a small or medium sized business needs to consider when setting up and operating, or growing, a company in New Zealand in respect of its interactions and compliance obligations with Government agencies. Within that is a thing called Compliance Matters. This is a tool that sets out for those businesses exactly what their compliance obligations are, and points them in the direction of what they need to do to make sure that they are compliant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo let us take this in context. The New Zealand Business Number on its own is not the only thing that this Government is doing to support small and medium sized businesses. It is part of a much broader plan both for small businesses and for business as a whole to promote economic growth in New Zealand and to help to raise confidence and results in our businesses that lead to greater employment, as we have seen in the past 12 months and earlier. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022d170c4356bbf485bb7d141e11ded4057\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d170c4356bbf485bb7d141e11ded4057\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much for the chance to speak to this bill. I am looking forward to this bill going to the Commerce Committee because it has been some time since we have dealt with a piece of legislation of any weight\u2014not that this piece of legislation is of any weight. As we have said on this side, when you look at what it does and the 7 years of Government that this party has behind it, and the fact that we are 2 weeks out from an election\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283db18995969463ab582aa379bca3a73\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: From a Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3d18a4e3a0a40c0b3b42124c9677b62\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014from a Budget, sorry\u2014I wish it was an election\u2014shows just how tired this Government is. Two weeks out from the Budget, this is as good as it gets\u2014a plan to expand the national business number out beyond what has already gone out to the public. It is, as Dr Clark said in his speech, a laudable effort to try to make the interaction between business and Government as efficient as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWe have heard from both sides of the House about what kinds of savings we are trying to get to make business interaction with the Government more efficient. But some of the numbers still need to be fleshed out. You have got to think of it in the context of what is being promised, and what will actually be delivered. Steven Joyce, in his opening remarks, said that this piece of legislation will look to reduce the compliance cost of business by about $60 million. That is nothing to sniff at. It is a sizable amount of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EBut I think small businesses in New Zealand, 2 weeks out from a Budget, are looking at more than the extension of the national business number programme. I think they will be scratching their heads and thinking: \u201CMy God. Is this all this National Party has, 2 weeks out from an election?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227965855872034fe2805209e6dcb45f6e\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: From a Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f952a8028b67492ea26e83b62dcf31fe\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: From a Budget\u2014ha, ha! I will get that right eventually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI would like to sympathise and empathise with some of the things that James Shaw has said because, as he said in his speech, as a freelancer\u2014I have experienced being a freelancer as well\u2014from time to time you can get slightly frustrated with the amount of red tape and interaction you have with Government departments. We will look to the select committee to flesh out, I guess, some more of the details as to what will be the real benefits to the sole traders, to those other small businesses that this national business number may be extended out to. The select committee consideration will be very interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI also want to touch on something that Fletcher Tabuteau said. He talked about the lack of information and the abundance of redaction in the regulatory impact statement. That starts pretty early on in the regulatory impact statement. There is a table, at point 5. For the benefit of those at home, watching at 9.33 on Tuesday night, the line above the table says: \u201CThe table below outlines the net benefits of the preferred options.\u201D As you can see, it has all been redacted. So maybe\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c48ee3e22cd4a81b6983caa9ca5ccf4\u0022\u003EDr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Blankety-blank.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228520373908ea48b19eb68b197d612d03\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, in the words of Annette King, it says: \u201CBlankety-blank, blank, blank, blank\u201D. Those are the net benefits of the preferred options of this bill. What is so secret that the Government wants to redact even the net benefits of its preferred option of this bill? What is going on, when the Government wants to redact the net benefits of this extension of a 13-number programme? You have got to ask some serious questions about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere are also some questions that we will be asking around the costs that are incurred in this bill, because we have heard that $60 million figure from Steven Joyce. But, again, in the regulatory impact statement\u2014and if you will let me take some time to read point 127. For some reason the number 127 has been redacted, but the point has not been redacted. I do not know what is so secret about the number 127. I will read it\u2014I am assuming this is No. 127\u2014below this redaction: \u201CThe benefits to business of the NZBN will only be realised when government agencies change their existing systems to allow centralised registration of businesses and maintenance of their business details through the NZBN system.\u201D I will go on to the second page, which says: \u201CGovernment agencies will incur costs in making these changes. It is not possible at this stage to quantify these costs. In many cases it may be possible to absorb costs within planned upgrades of agency systems.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere are two questions I have here, for when we get to the select committee consideration. Can we please get an idea of what it will cost to change the systems within the multitude of Government departments? If it is a huge cost, and we are looking at saving roughly $60 million for these businesses, or more, then from my maths that simply does not make sense. There is a track record for this Government when it gets involved in multi-agency, complicated changes to IT systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ce99250d8674ca28cc1fab9e8c035d1\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286bfc4e19b284937b4667fc22ac9d3b8\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is true. If you would like to dispute that, get up and take a call. But it is true. This Government does not have a good track record. Let us look at some of the IT projects of note recently that it has bungled. The Inland Revenue Department\u2014who is in charge of inland revenue? The member just over there, who said: \u201CThat\u2019s not true.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcda3d7268b7450b8713323f698a9cab\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abd85ed64e2a4a66830d40da77ef082f\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: You might think it is not fair, Mr Bishop, but unfortunately it is true. It is true. I can see how the member might think that is unfair, but unfortunately his actions and the actions of that ministry, and his decisions, are going to cost the New Zealand taxpayer millions more, which they should not have to pay. There are also other things that have been mentioned by other speakers, and I would like to talk to the point around privacy. This regulatory impact statement also talks to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAgain, and I am talking about the rolling out of IT programs, this Government does not have a good track record when it comes to the privacy of the private information of New Zealanders. What department is that? Oh, it is Todd McClay\u2019s department again, the Inland Revenue Department. Of course, it let a whole spreadsheet list go\u2014just flicked out in an email the details of hundreds of New Zealanders and their Inland Revenue Department details. The department just nonchalantly emailed them out into the public. Then of course there was the Ministry of Social Development. Someone just wandered into one of the offices, went to the publicly available booth, and helped themselves to a lot of information. There are some serious questions that need to be asked in the select committee consideration around the safeguards and the privacy of information to make sure that this Government is getting right, because in the past it has got it so, so wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis bill, as I said, tries to achieve a laudable aim in trying to make the interactions of businesses and Government departments more streamlined, so they can save money and therefore invest more money, pay their staff more, or enjoy more profit. The example of New Zealand Post has been raised by a number of speakers on that side of the House. I just want to take this opportunity to talk about one local example of where this Government is saying one thing and is doing another. I held a public meeting recently about the future of the Raumati Beach PostShop, which this Government wants to close down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbc0e744c34c42ba879190b74dd66a2a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to invite the member to bring his point back to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe5c5fb54df94ec8a569675590f937e3\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: I will. In the front seat of that public meeting was a local businessman who wants to make his life easier with a State-owned enterprise, New Zealand Post. But this Government, in demanding more of a profit from New Zealand Post, is forcing the likes of community post shops in my electorate, in Raumati Beach\u2014which is not the strongest Labour safehold area in my electorate. In fact, the businessman who spoke to me saying \u201CWell done for bringing up the issue.\u201D said he did not vote for us, but he is unhappy with this Government and the fact it is extracting more profit out of New Zealand Post and closing down a very important piece of infrastructure in his community, the local post shop, so now he will not be having that efficient interaction\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00220bad62a321a14dce924e0ff7497282cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bad62a321a14dce924e0ff7497282cf\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E I really feel for the member Kris Faafoi having to interrupt such a wonderful discourse of\u2014whatever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d5ef1cd101b4ad3882c327c0ce09bf1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I did terminate the member\u2019s speech for being irrelevant. The member is inviting me to do it very early to him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267a57f7340df4fbbbd58e19d97bd32bc\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, for that direction. Can I begin by congratulating the Minister for Economic Development on bringing this bill to the House. Actually, as a businessman\u2014or certainly a former businessman\u2014having dealt with the Inland Revenue Department and all of the other Government agencies, I think this is very welcome news. It does not surprise me that, as has been claimed by the other side of the House, small businesses do not recognise the benefit to them of a bill like this. Often small businesses are so mired in the day-to-day running of their businesses that they do not particularly think of these things and they do not recognise the benefit of them until they are actually upon them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI have had experience with a business number, not in New Zealand, but with an Australian part that we had to deal with in my wine business. Having a business number over there absolutely made things a lot easier. It seems to me that it is nonsensical that we have not had one up until now. These little things that Governments do from time to time, which may seem boring and not earth-shattering, do make a difference, and they do move businesses forward. Those little parts of the New Zealand economy are actually what drives New Zealand on. It is not the big businesses, as important as they are to New Zealand\u2019s economy. It is the little businesses that impact on most people in New Zealand, so it is incumbent upon us to allow them to be as efficient as possible. The New Zealand Business Number will do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI think one of the big things with this bill is, actually, how they are going to maintain the New Zealand Business Number Register. That register is going to be kept by the registrar appointed under the bill, and it will contain only business-related data. Certain primary business data contained on the register for the entity must be publicly available as follows. \u201C[In] the case of a corporate or public entity,\u2014(i) the data listed in Part 1 of Schedule 3\u201D, which is \u201CLegal entity name; Registered address; Location identifier; NZBN; Start date; Kind of entity; Business status (eg, active or inactive)\u201D, and \u201C(ii) any data prescribed by regulations that the entity elects to make publicly available or that is otherwise available on a public register;\u201D. \u201C[In] the case of an unincorporated entity,\u2014(i) the data listed in Part 2 of Schedule 3\u201D, which is \u201CLocation identifier; NZBN; Start date; Kind of entity; Business status (eg, active or inactive)\u201D and \u201C(ii) any data prescribed by regulations that the entity elects to make publicly available.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThat all sounds like pretty mundane stuff, but I can assure you that once you have filled out this information once and then you have to do it again\u2014and sometimes four or five times in a day\u2014it can become pretty tiresome. For a small business\u2014and this will be rolled out to sole operators in time\u2014it is going to make a tremendous difference and free them up to do what it is we as an economy want them to do, which is get on with business. That is what enables us to enjoy the lifestyle we do as a country and enables us to have enough taxes to look after those people who cannot look after themselves, which is something that many on the other side of the House claim to champion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI note that there are already 1.1 million businesses that have a New Zealand Business Number, so this has already begun. This bill simply enables it to be rolled out more widely. I think the small businesses are, quite rightly, the ones, as I said, that need to come on further with this. It will enable us to build a more competitive and productive economy, which is something that we all benefit from, so I cannot see anyone having any issue with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ELifting business confidence is also part of the Business Growth Agenda, which this all ties in very neatly with, and addresses issues that matter most to firms, particularly building export markets, building capital markets, building innovation, and building skilled and safe workplaces. I note that this ties in, also, with the Financial Markets Conduct Act, which allowed crowdfunding to come in. This all ties in with this New Zealand Business Number because, actually, that has been a great source of capital for small businesses, and they have been able to raise funds\u2014in fact, up to $2 million\u2014that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b4ed7e5b34844538d85862b583dd4e4\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Relevance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203c380029629491f8fbca96de7b853a8\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It is great to be able to have all of this pulled into the bill, because the New Zealand Business Number enables all of that information to be equally shared. I think that is really important, so it is very relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ELabour market statistics show that self-employed businesses grew by nearly 35,000 in the year to December 2014. If you think about that, there would be at least one person involved with each. I do not know what the average size of small to medium sized enterprises is in terms of people involved with them, but I would think it would be seven or eight people maximum\u2014[Interruption] Twenty, is it, and then right down to one. I would say that the average would be three or four people, so that is a lot of people involved in those businesses. So there is a significant increase in the numbers of people involved in small to medium sized businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EA lot of small to medium sized businesses fail in their first year. I guess there is an element of Darwinian selection there, and that is as it should be, because not all businesses will survive\u2014[Interruption] Absolutely, but it is a great thing to get these businesses up and running. One of the things that new businesses often struggle with is the day-to-day management of their business\u2014their data, filling in all of this information\u2014so it really is a great step forward, this bill, and with our 3.5 percent GDP growth that we are running at the moment it is enabling businesses to grow across the whole economy. I am sure that is something that the other side of the House will be delighted about\u2014that we have a Government that is focused on business, focused on growth, and focused on making those businesses able to get as much profit for the amount of work that they do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo it is with great pleasure, on that note\u2014[Interruption] And with all the support I am getting from the other side of the House, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Commerce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1affe9765974e36b7e51978cfbc3721\u0022\u003EEnvironmental Reporting Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb4ab830325f497ebd4c8da32987d621\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002269269e39581e468a9c1045f005512925\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269269e39581e468a9c1045f005512925\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Environmental Reporting Bill be now read a second time. I want to begin by thanking members of the Local Government and Environment Committee, particularly the chairperson, Scott Simpson, and the Officers of Parliament Committee, for the very sensible refinements that the select committee has made to this important bill. This bill has its origins back in National\u2019s Bluegreens\u2014in our efforts to improve the integrity of New Zealand\u2019s \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand. It was part of the policy that we put to the electorate and I am pleased to be now in Parliament seeing it progress through into legislation. We are actually the only OECD country to not have a statutory framework for environmental reporting. It is an anomaly, out of step with New Zealand\u2019s \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand. This new Act will rightly put our environmental management under scrutiny and improve the integrity of New Zealand\u2019s brand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe should not underestimate the power of open reporting systems to improve performance. I remember in my first term of Parliament New Zealand had had 30 years of pretty appalling management of New Zealand\u2019s public finances. The Public Finance (Fiscal Responsibility) Amendment Act, requiring Governments of whatever political flavour to be absolutely upfront with the electorate about the state of the Government\u2019s books, has been a game-changer in moving New Zealand from having some of the worst public accounts in the world to having some of the best. I would also make the consistent analogy with education. Members on this side of the House, as part of our policy agenda, introduced the national standards legislation, which equally requires open and transparent reporting of how well our children are doing at school, because we believe that providing integrity and honest reporting actually helps improve performance. It has been interesting in the years since 2009 to watch in both the National Certificate of Educational Achievement results and those national standards a consistent improvement in the way in which children are learning maths, learning to read and write, and learning those basic standards that are so important to New Zealand achieving better in that area. This Environmental Reporting Bill is about an equally significant area, where I think New Zealanders want us to do better as a country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EHaving standardised reporting in areas like water quality, air quality, how well we are doing in protecting our biodiversity and the survival of important species like the kiwi, and what sort of job we are doing in managing our oceans\u2014all those areas\u2014in my view is a very important step. I am proud to be part of a Government advancing that step. It is part of a broader role in terms of what we have been doing as a Government in strengthening the role of the institutions of, firstly, the Ministry for the Environment as the policy maker, the environmental equivalent of Treasury\u2019s role in the economic space, and, secondly, the Environmental Protection Authority, an agency that was created by this Government to act as the effective independent regulator, not too different to the role that is played by the Reserve Bank in the economic sphere. Finally, just as we have an auditor, we also have an important role for the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, whose job it is to provide for the overall independence of our system of environmental management. It is my view that this bill will actually strengthen those institutional structures, which will also play out well for our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to talk to two controversies in the process of the bill\u2019s being processed, to set the record straight. There are, unusually, parties in this Parliament that I thought would support a good bill like this, which is absolutely well intended and is best practice by OECD standards. However, a great deal has been made of clause 18. This is the provision that sets down which topics will be reported. The controversy with which members in the Green Party and the Labour Party justify their opposition to this bill is that somehow there is something wrong with the Government\u2019s Minister of Statistics and Minister for the Environment setting the topic areas. The first thing I would point out is that the legislation makes plain the five domain areas that those topics must cover. The bill goes further, and requires a process of public consultation with the Government Statistician, with the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, and with the public, iwi, and local authorities about each of those topics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EMy challenge for members who want to criticise clause 18 is this: the exact parallel provisions exist in the finance area. So, indeed, if it comes to measuring things like GDP, the Consumers Price Index, or the labour index, there is no more role here for the Minister of Statistics and the Minister for the Environment than there is in those parallel areas. So why is it that they want to have a separate set of rules when it comes to environmental reporting? I have never heard a member of the Opposition ever raise any questions of integrity in the economic space about the equivalent of clause 18. Nor did they do so in their 9 years in Government. So why would they do so here? I simply say to this House that it is crude oppositional politics rather than actually trying to be constructive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe second issue that has been raised is why the bill does not provide for greenhouse gas emissions, which, of course, are important to report. There is a very simple explanation. New Zealand is a member of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. It requires every single year that greenhouse gas emissions be reported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cedc9458ff1546f2b25f2ed4bc06d7eb\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: You wouldn\u2019t know it. Why\u2019d you wreck the ETS, Nick? It\u2019s going to be your legacy, mate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f81fdfe8ec245848e16d0d8bcc89a52\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It might be a lesson for David Cunliffe that during the 9 years of the previous Government greenhouse gas emissions rose very steeply. Actually, I would much rather, Mr Cunliffe, have our record on greenhouse gas emissions than the previous Clark Government\u2019s, which was all talk and no action. But my point is this, to Mr Cunliffe and to members opposite: the framework convention is enlisted in legislation\u2014the Climate Change Response Act. It requires every single year for us to both report to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change and to table in this Parliament New Zealand\u2019s greenhouse gas emissions. So why would you insist that there be another Act of Parliament to repeat those same reports? Are members opposite really saying that the very robust process of independent, country auditing of greenhouse gas emissions is not good enough for them? If so, again I challenge them and ask: why was it, then, good enough for them in Government? We are a party of minimising bureaucracy, reporting information accurately, and doing it once and not having repeat information in one document after another. And in my view the provisions of the bill in that regard are absolutely sensible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe last point I wish to make in respect of the role for Ministers and for Government is let us not pretend there is not a cost with environment reporting. The reality is that if we are going to pass regulations requiring regional councils, district councils, and ministries to collect environmental data\u2014it is actually quite expensive to get good quality data. The view that is put by Opposition parties, that somehow parties that are independent of the Government can make decisions about spending, breaks one of the fundamental rules of the way in which our system of government works, and that is that it is only the elected Government of the day that can commit to expenditure, including the expenditure on the collection of environmental data. The system that is provided for in this bill is absolutely transparent, and if Governments of whatever political colour attempt to misrepresent or not collect robust environmental data on the basis of budgetary constraint, it will be as transparent as the day is light. That is proper and that is why the bill is drafted in this way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. This is a bill that will ensure that New Zealand does not just brand itself internationally as being clean and green. This is a bill that will give honest, open reporting on just how we are doing. It is the sort of bill that a National Government supports. We are a practical Government that wants New Zealand achieving economically and educationally, as well as in this environment space, and we are proud to be a party that is making this significant change to our legislative as well as our constitutional framework\u2014how we manage those natural resources that are so important to this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002270e4a27795ef49f59ef34a039f4fea1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270e4a27795ef49f59ef34a039f4fea1d\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E It is not with pleasure that I rise to give this speech. Labour will be opposing this legislation. It is not a position that we wanted to be in. We did oppose the bill at its first reading. My predecessor in the role of Labour spokesperson on the environment, Moana Mackey, made it very clear that we wanted to work very hard during the select committee process to bring about the changes that meant we could support it. I think there are very few people in the world who would not support the stated purpose of the bill, but it is when you get into the detail of the bill that the problems emerge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EAs Dr Smith set out in his contribution, this is something that has been on the books of the National Government for a very long time. In fact, it was promised in its 2008 election manifesto that it was going to introduce environment reporting legislation that required independent 5-yearly state of the environment reports. Well, I guess that us being here tonight means that perhaps this Government has beaten itself to a surplus in terms of the Environment Reporting Bill, because that was also promised in the 2008 manifesto. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does not deliver is independent reporting. For Dr Smith to say that he challenges parties to justify why it is that it needs to be different\u2014well, I would like to hear from a Government contributor on this bill as to how it is that they disagree with the vast majority of submitters, many of them very, very deep in the detail of this bill, who had grave concerns about the independence of the mechanisms that are set up under this legislation. We heard from the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, who had grave concerns around whether or not this bill would deliver independent decision making around which topics are to be covered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI am of course referring to clause 18 of this bill, which is the central cause of Labour\u2019s inability to support this bill. You simply cannot have the Minister for the Environment and the Minister of Statistics making the decisions on what is to be reported on and claim that you have independent reporting. What we have consistently asked for, and will be asking for again, is that that decision be in the hands of the Secretary for the Environment and the Government Statistician\u2014who does consult with other people such as iwi, and such as the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment\u2014and that they arrive at what is to be reported on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe Minister who has spoken was quite correct. We are the only country in the OECD not to have this. We really wanted to be able to support this legislation and to put in place robust and independent environmental reporting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505057d2ccbe806534bccb8432917b93f1493000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"