"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224da8ad570ba74acf879f134d39914fc4\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 21 MAY 2015\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223dc2365c01be4fac97bacb158fda49eb\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 21 MAY 2015\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002262ee18ba90f849fca81fdc63d5118d43\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2014/15 Supplementary Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022240a3117abaf47d3bedab27ac63468b9\u0022\u003EProcedure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022512d725212344625967b85d10fec18ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022512d725212344625967b85d10fec18ed\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I hereby present the Supplementary Estimates of Appropriations for the Government of New Zealand for the year ending 30 June 2015 (B.7). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00220d4b17644094436aab105f382abefe16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d4b17644094436aab105f382abefe16\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That paper is published under the authority of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227626ed4a43a745d39a56d0b2df9aa3fd\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2015/16 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002251382427bc6e41f299e8c39f2c3d9d77\u0022\u003EProcedure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002293a49431d3914a2a8a78d31666c37341\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293a49431d3914a2a8a78d31666c37341\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I hereby present the 2015 Budget Minister\u2019s Executive Summary, the Speech, the Fiscal Strategy Report (B.2), the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (B.3), and the Estimates of Appropriations for the Government of New Zealand for the year ending 30 June 2016 (B.5, Volumes 1-10).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002222fbe896b7954271a41bf4907e914ba5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222fbe896b7954271a41bf4907e914ba5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8461ea673654231a3ceb9aa67e2f2b4\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022fba1cc4f83f84a4ab8dda2d9a88a6321\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fba1cc4f83f84a4ab8dda2d9a88a6321\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2015/16 Estimates) Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225635f52b709a45a6924fc18c88673b46\u0022\u003EBudget Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022791900c835aa434aa47ff912e89e45c5\u0022\u003EBudget Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000017\u0022\u003EBudget Debate\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8f34f527dd34563a3d3e9dca7a6567c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8f34f527dd34563a3d3e9dca7a6567c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2015/16 Estimates) Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a privilege to present the National-led Government\u2019s seventh Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has come through significant challenges and is now a more confident and resilient country than it was seven years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ESuccessive Budgets have sought to put New Zealand on a track to surplus and debt reduction, and as a result the Government\u2019s books are in good shape.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ECareful management of public spending has gone hand-in-hand with investment in public services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe economy has risen from deep recession to solid, 3 per cent growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn the 2011 Budget, I mentioned Treasury\u2019s forecast of 170,000 additional jobs by June 2015, and this was treated with some scepticism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI can report that this target has already been surpassed, with three months still to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EHowever, Budget 2015 is about looking forward, not looking back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis is a responsible and supportive Budget from a responsible and supportive Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn this Budget we are providing further support for the lowest-income families and children in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve allowed for significant ACC levy reductions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re strengthening tax rules on property investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re investing more in the drivers of economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAnd we\u2019re supporting health and education with $2.4 billion over the next four years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis is achieved within an overall expenditure track that sees debt start reducing as a percentage of GDP and helps keep pressure off interest rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EDelivering this Budget is only possible because of the constructive working relationships National has with the M\u0101ori Party, ACT and United Future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge their continuing support and contribution to stable government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EEconomic Outlook\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI want to start by talking about the economic outlook.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ENew Zealand remains one of the faster-growing developed economies, with conditions supporting sustained solid growth, forecast at 2.8 per cent on average over the next four years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EGrowth matters. It means more jobs, higher incomes and opportunities for families to get ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBy mid-2019, the number of people in work is expected to rise by another 150,000 and the unemployment rate to drop to 4.5 per cent. The average wage is also expected to rise by $7,000 to $63,000 a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s positive economic performance, relative to others, is demonstrated by the strength of the New Zealand dollar and the very low number of people leaving for Australia \u2013 the lowest, in net terms, since 1992.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ELower dairy prices are a headwind for growth, however, and global uncertainties remain. Monetary policy easing in other countries is helping to keep upward pressure on the exchange rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EUnusually, given our current growth, New Zealand is experiencing very low inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAnnual CPI inflation is only 0.1 per cent, compared to the Budget 2014 forecast of 1.8 per cent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis is good news for consumers and workers because their income goes a bit further and they get good value for any pay rises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ELow inflation is also keeping down interest rates. The concerns I expressed in last year\u2019s Budget about rising interest rates have largely disappeared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBut lower-than-expected prices also mean that nominal GDP \u2013 the size of the economy in dollar terms \u2013 is not rising as quickly as previously expected, despite solid growth in the real economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis means tax revenue is not rising as quickly either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ECompared to what was forecast in last year\u2019s Budget, nominal GDP is expected to be $15 billion lower in total over this year and the next three years, and tax revenue to be $4.5 billion lower in total over the same period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EResponsibly managing the Government\u2019s finances\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis leads me to the first of our four priorities, which is to responsibly manage the Government\u2019s finances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government inherited a poor set of accounts in 2008. Spending under the previous government had risen 50 per cent in just five years, which was unaffordable. Treasury warned of permanent deficits and debt rising to over 60 per cent of GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EOur fiscal strategy has been to support the economy in the short term by running deficits, but to reduce these deficits over time through tight control of spending and a strong focus on value for money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis approach has succeeded. Core Crown expenses, for example, have fallen from 34.1 per cent of GDP in 2008/09 and are expected to drop to 30 per cent next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Crown\u2019s books are now in good shape, showing operating balances growing over time and debt reducing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government has five fiscal priorities:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EReturning to surplus this year and maintaining surpluses in the future\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EReducing net debt to 20 per cent of GDP by 2020, including repaying debt in dollar terms in 2017/18\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EFurther reducing ACC levies \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBeginning to reduce income taxes from 2017, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EUsing any further fiscal headroom to reduce debt faster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government is making good progress on all these fiscal priorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWhile expenditure is firmly under control, tax revenue \u2013 as I mentioned \u2013 is not rising as quickly as expected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis is lowering operating balances across the forecast period, compared to Budget 2014 predictions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBut the overall trajectory has not changed. We have come from an $18.4 billion deficit four years ago to seeing steadily rising surpluses into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EA deficit of $684 million is now forecast for 2014/15, which is $2.2 billion less than last year\u2019s deficit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EA surplus of $176 million is expected in 2015/16, followed by $1.5 billion in 2016/17 and rising to $3.6 billion in 2018/19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said previously, the Government has no intention of making spending cuts simply to chase a surplus in a particular year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe surplus target has been successful in applying greater discipline to government spending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThat discipline has turned the Government\u2019s books around, and the fiscal outlook remains very positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ENet debt is expected to peak at 26.3 per cent of GDP in 2015/16 and to fall thereafter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EDebt rises a bit further in dollar terms until 2017/18, after which there will be sufficient cash surpluses to meet our objective of repaying debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBudget projections show net debt falling to 19.7 per cent of GDP in 2020/21.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAt the same time, the Government has allowed for significant ACC levy reductions in 2016 and 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe healthy state of the books means the Government is keeping operating allowances unchanged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThese remain at $1 billion for Budgets 2015 and 2016 before rising to $2.5 billion in 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe higher allowance in 2017 provides options for modest income tax reductions should fiscal and economic conditions allow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ENew capital spending of $939 million in this Budget comes from the Future Investment Fund, which was set up to distribute proceeds from the Government share offers. $726 million remains in the Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EFrom Budget 2017, around $3.7 billion has been set aside in capital allowances to fund new initiatives over four Budgets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s assets are expected to grow significantly faster than its liabilities over the next four years, which means total net worth attributable to the Crown rises by $19 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government will continue to focus its balance sheet strategy on improving capital investment decisions and getting the best value possible from the Crown\u2019s existing assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBuilding a productive and competitive economy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s second priority is to build a more productive and competitive economy that supports jobs and higher incomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThrough difficult times, New Zealand firms have become more resilient and innovative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThey\u2019ve been supported by a Government that understands that the country\u2019s prosperity is created by private sector businesses, large and small, throughout New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EOur plan is set out in the Business Growth Agenda, and the Budget adds a number of initiatives to this important programme of work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBudget 2015 increases the Government\u2019s investment in tertiary education, research and innovation, which are important drivers of economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget provides up to $25 million over three years to support the establishment of new, privately-led Regional Research Institutes, to support increased innovation in regional areas outside of Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAs announced previously, the Budget will also give an $80 million boost over four years to R\u0026amp;D growth grants, which support innovative businesses by contributing 20 per cent of their R\u0026amp;D costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe additional funding announced in Budget 2015 will bring the Government\u2019s total investment in science and innovation to over $1.5 billion in 2015/16.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget also provides $113 million over four years, mostly from reprioritised spending, for a number of tertiary education initiatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThese include increases in tuition rates for some science subjects, an increase in the number of engineering places, and a contingency to grow M\u0101ori and Pasifika Trades Training.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government has already reduced annual ACC levies for households and businesses by $1.5 billion since 2012.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget allows for further levy cuts of $375 million in 2016 and an additional $120 million in 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EFinal decisions on the levies will be made after public consultation, but we anticipate the cuts will cover all levied accounts and therefore reduce annual costs for businesses, workers and motor vehicle owners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAs an illustration of how levies are falling, the average motor vehicle levy, including the annual licence fee and petrol levy, could fall to around $120 in 2016, which is about a third of what it is now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAs previously announced, the Budget contains measures to bolster and enforce the tax rules on property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis is to ensure that people buying and selling properties for a profit \u2013 including foreigners \u2013 are paying their fair share of tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn particular, some people will now have to provide an IRD number when they buy and sell property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis requirement will apply to all non-residents, and to New Zealanders who are buying and selling a property that\u2019s not their main home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn addition, if someone sells a residential property within two years of purchase they will now have to pay income tax on any profit they make from the sale.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThere will be some exceptions, including for a person\u2019s main home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government will consult on these changes, and implement them from 1 October.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget also contains a funding boost of $74 million over five years for extra tax compliance and enforcement, of which $29 million is focused on property investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe new tax measures we are introducing will help to take some of the pressure off Auckland\u2019s housing market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBut the Government\u2019s main focus in Auckland is on increasing supply, including through special housing areas and reforms to the Resource Management Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government is also a major owner of under-utilised land in Auckland. Budget 2015 sets aside a $52 million capital contingency to facilitate housing development on Crown-owned land in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis follows confirmation last month that the T\u0101maki Redevelopment Company will build around 7,500 new houses in T\u0101maki to replace 2,500 existing properties currently owned by Housing New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ENew capital investment of $939 million is provided from the Future Investment Fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis includes a contingency of up to $210 million for additional investment to bring Ultra-Fast Broadband to 80 per cent of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Telecommunications Development Levy is also being extended to provide $150 million for major improvements in rural broadband.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget includes a contingency of up to $52 million to replace the Waitangi Wharf on the Chatham Islands, which is a critical lifeline for one of New Zealand\u2019s most remote communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EKiwiRail receives $210 million in new capital next year, and a further $190 million as a pre-commitment against Budget 2016. This support gives KiwiRail a two-year window to identify savings, as this level of on-going support is not sustainable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAs previously announced, the Budget also provides $97 million in capital for regional highways and $40 million for urban cycleways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThrough Budget 2015, the Government is investing an additional $37 million of operating funding over four years to provide greater national direction and support to councils as they implement the Government\u2019s resource management and freshwater reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EHigh quality analysis and regulation of freshwater is critical to the ongoing success of our primary production industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EFurther expansion in the primary sector will be supported by $13 million over four years for initiatives to improve the productivity of under-utilised M\u0101ori land, complementing the reform of Te Ture Whenua M\u0101ori Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EA new grant scheme has been established to encourage the planting of new forests, and the Budget provides $22 million for this scheme over the next six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government is also investing $32 million over four years to increase the number of labour inspectors and strengthen enforcement of employment law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Business Number gets a boost from the Budget, with funding of $12 million over four years, including from company fees. This unique identifier will help to reduce costs for businesses when they interact with government agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe KiwiSaver scheme has been successful in attracting 2.5 million members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIt also has considerable costs, with the Government spending over $850 million this year on two subsidies \u2013 the annual subsidy of up to $521, and the $1,000 kick-start payment for new members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ETo reduce this cost, the Government has decided to remove the kick-start payment, which has cost taxpayers a total of $2.5 billion since the scheme began. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis change is effective immediately, but I want to stress that it does not affect existing KiwiSaver members in any way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe other incentives in the scheme \u2013 matching employer contributions and the annual government subsidy \u2013 will remain as they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThese incentives also provide a strong reason to join KiwiSaver. Removing the kick-start payment for future enrolments will save over $500 million over the next four years, with little or no effect on the number of people expected to join the scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government will introduce a new levy to fund passenger-related biosecurity and customs activities at our border. Currently, the cost of these activities \u2013 which protect New Zealand from imported pests, diseases, illegal drugs and other threats \u2013 are met by taxpayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government considers it fairer for the cost to fall on travellers, as happens in many other countries. A per-passenger levy also helps ensure that border services are funded to meet future demand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe new Border Clearance Levy is expected to take effect from 1 January 2016 and, subject to consultation, will be around $16 for arriving passengers and around $6 for departing passengers. It will raise around $100 million a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAt the same time, the Budget expands some border activities, including an additional $25 million over four years for more biosecurity services such as x-ray machines and detector dogs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget also provides $33 million over four years for more immigration staff at a time of record-breaking visitor numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EDelivering better public services\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s third priority is to deliver better public services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EOur approach is to get better results from the billions of dollars of existing spending, and to invest new money where it will make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThree years ago, the Prime Minister set 10 challenging results for the public sector to achieve, and good progress is being made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAt the same time, New Zealanders\u2019 overall trust in public services has continued to grow as public services improve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government is pressing ahead with its social investment approach, which is about targeted, evidence-based investment to secure better long-term results for the most vulnerable New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re willing to pay a bit more upfront to get real, sustainable change, and in doing so we can generate significant long-term savings for the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government is focused on addressing long-term drivers of hardship and this approach is already seeing results. Educational achievement is increasing, for example, and the number of children in benefit-dependent households has fallen by 42,000 over the past three years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn addition, the Prime Minister said last year he wanted to do more to help children living in the poorest households.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget responds to his call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis Government believes that the primary responsibility for the welfare of children lies with their parents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBut government actions can, and do, help children whose home lives are challenging.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ETwo-thirds of children in more severe material hardship have a parent on a benefit, and nine out of 10 of those are sole parents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe best thing we can do for these children is to get their parents into sustainable, full-time work, where that is possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ESo, as part of a child hardship package in this Budget, we are strengthening work expectations for parents on a benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EFrom 1 April next year, most sole parents, and partners of beneficiaries, will have to be available for part-time work when their youngest child turns three, rather than five as it is now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn addition, all beneficiaries with part-time work obligations will be expected to find work for 20 hours a week, rather than 15 hours a week under the current requirements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EPart-time work brings more income into a family, and is a stepping stone to full-time work and to going off a benefit altogether.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EHowever, when families do rely on a benefit, it has to be enough for children to get a decent upbringing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EOver many years, beneficiary family incomes have hardly changed in real terms, while those for working families have increased. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EOn one hand, this gap creates a strong incentive to move from welfare into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBut the Government is concerned about the effect on children when their family\u2019s resources fall behind those of other households.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn terms of that balance, and with an improving economy, the Government considers there is scope to increase benefit rates for families, to help ensure they can pay for family necessities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EOn 1 April next year, benefit rates for families with children will rise by $25 a week after tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIt will be the first time core benefit rates have been increased \u2013 apart from inflation adjustments \u2013 since 1972.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAround 110,000 families, with 190,000 children, will be better off as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis increase to benefit rates comes after widespread reform of the welfare system, so we\u2019re confident it will have a positive impact on the lives of beneficiary families and children, rather than contribute to further dependence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn addition, to make sure the increase is going to the right people, we will require beneficiaries on Sole Parent Support to reapply for their benefit every year, matching the current process for Jobseeker Support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWhile two-thirds of children in more severe material hardship live in beneficiary families, the other third live in low-income working families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ESo on 1 April next year, there will also be changes to Working for Families, to give more financial support to lower-income working families not on a benefit. As a result:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ELow-income working families earning $36,350 or less a year, before tax, will get $12.50 extra a week from Working for Families, and some very low-income families will get $24.50 extra. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWorking families earning more than $36,350 will get extra from Working for Families, but it will be less than $12.50 a week, with the exact amount dependent on their family income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EFamilies earning more than $88,000 a year will get slightly lower Working for Families payments, with the average reduction being around $3 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn total, these changes to tax credits will benefit around 200,000 lower-income working families who are not dependent on benefits. Around 50,000 of these families earn $36,350 or less a year, and will therefore get the full $12.50 a week increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe child hardship package also recognises that lower-income working parents need affordable childcare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EFrom April next year, Childcare Assistance for low-income families will increase from $4 an hour to $5 an hour, for up to 50 hours of childcare a week per child.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe new rate will apply to both the Childcare Subsidy for pre-schoolers and the OSCAR subsidy for out-of-school care and school holiday programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIt will lower the cost of childcare for around 40,000 low-income working families and reduce barriers for parents moving off welfare and into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe child hardship package has a number of different elements. Its exact impact on any given family will depend on their individual circumstances, including the types of supplementary assistance they receive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EOverall, it will have a meaningful impact for recipient families, particularly for those on very low incomes, and reduce the depth of hardship these families and their children experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe total cost of the package is around $240 million in each full year, and $790 million in total over the four-year forecast period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIt follows last year\u2019s $500 million children and families package which included free doctors\u2019 visits and prescriptions for children under 13.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI want to thank the M\u0101ori Party for its strong contribution to poverty-related issues over the past few years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget also provides new operating funding of $36 million over the next four years to support the Children\u2019s Action Plan for vulnerable children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis includes funding for new and existing Children\u2019s Teams, which bring together social workers, health professionals, NGOs and others, to work with at-risk children and their families on an individually-tailored support plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAn extra $23 million over four years is being provided to bolster the work of Child, Youth and Family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget also contains $8 million over four years for initiatives to help vulnerable students participate more in education or training, and lift achievement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget includes measures to tackle child support debt and encourage parents to pay what they owe for their children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ECurrently, large penalty debts are discouraging many parents from paying any child support at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis penalty debt, or a portion of it, will now be forgiven in certain circumstances, including where liable parents are meeting their payment requirements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIf maximum discretion is applied, this will result in $1.7 billion of penalties being forgiven over four years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe cost to the Crown is an estimated $47 million over four years, as most of the penalty debt is already reflected as an impairment in the Government\u2019s books.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThere will continue to be no tolerance for parents who deliberately avoid responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EDespite fiscal challenges, a priority in every Budget has been to increase funding for health and education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis year\u2019s Budget invests $1.7 billion of operating funding in health over the next four years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAs a result, District Health Boards will have around $320 million available next year for extra services and to help meet cost pressures and population growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ENew health initiatives include $98 million to increase elective surgery volumes and help New Zealanders suffering from orthopaedic conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAn extra $76 million is being provided for hospices, and to support 60 new palliative care nurse specialists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe bowel cancer screening pilot is being extended, at a cost of $12 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAnd the Budget provides an additional $16 million over four years to continue support for very high needs students with disabilities after they leave school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EEducational achievement is improving, supported by government investment that is focused on getting better results.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIn Budget 2015, early childhood, primary and secondary education together receive an additional $443 million of new operating funding and $244 million of capital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EOf this, $75 million of operating funding over four years is for early childhood education and $42 million is to increase school operating grants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAn extra $63 million over four years will better assist children with special education needs. This includes funding to continue teacher aide support for 1,500 additional students with special needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAs previously announced, Budget 2015 provides $244 million of capital from the Future Investment Fund to build new schools, expand existing schools and construct around 240 classrooms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government is committed to providing more social housing places, more diverse ownership of social housing, and helping tenants transition to housing independence when they are able to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAs part of our social housing reforms, the Ministry of Social Development has become the sole purchaser of social housing places. The Government also intends to sell some Housing New Zealand properties for use as ongoing social housing run by community housing providers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBudget 2015 supports this programme with $35 million of operating funding over four years, and $29 million reprioritised from other areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget also provides operating funding of $35 million over four years to support the M\u0101ori Housing Strategy, which aims to improve housing for M\u0101ori families and grow the M\u0101ori housing sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWh\u0101nau Ora is an innovative way of providing health and social services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBudget 2015 further supports the Wh\u0101nau Ora approach with $50 million over four years. This will continue funding Wh\u0101nau Ora navigators to help families tackle problems together, develop wh\u0101nau plans and access a range of services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget also provides $2 million over four years for rangatahi M\u0101ori suicide prevention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ENew funding of $32.5 million is provided over four years to further reduce welfare dependency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis includes funding for up to 10,000 extra places next year for intensive, work-focused case management, particularly for beneficiaries with health conditions and disabilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EPolice and Corrections will continue to target their resources to prevent crime and make our communities safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBudget 2015 provides $164 million over four years for Police to continue delivering more effective frontline policing and crime prevention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIt also provides $8 million over four years for the Serious Fraud Office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Department of Corrections receives $6.5 million of reprioritised funding for programmes to reduce reoffending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EAnd the Budget provides $40 million over four years for other justice sector initiatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government is committed to strengthening the New Zealand Defence Force and ensuring our country is safe from security threats.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBudget 2015 provides $264 million over four years to allow the Defence Force to meet its domestic and international humanitarian, aid and military commitments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Security Intelligence Service and the Government Communications Security Bureau each receive additional funding of $20 million over four years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EKiwi are New Zealand\u2019s most iconic birds, but numbers are declining every year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget contains $11 million of funding over four years for breeding and predator control programmes, run by community groups as well as the Department of Conservation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ERebuilding Christchurch\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s fourth priority is supporting the rebuild of Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ESince the first earthquake in September 2010, the Government has backed Cantabrians in the initial response, and now the recovery and rebuild.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe total cost of rebuilding the city and surrounding areas has been estimated at $40 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBudget forecasts show that the Government\u2019s share of that cost is expected to be $16.5 billion, of which $7.3 billion will be incurred by the Earthquake Commission, net of reinsurance proceeds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EGood progress is being made on the commercial and residential rebuild, including in the central city. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ELarge private sector projects are a testament to the positive future investors see for Christchurch, and 23,000 square metres of office space has been completed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMajor Government projects are also progressing. By the end of next year, 1,700 government workers will have returned to the central business district.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIt is important to maintain momentum with the city\u2019s anchor projects, most of which are complex developments with multiple partners. The Budget contains additional operating funding of $108 million over four years to ensure these projects remain on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis new funding will support land and building clearances. It will also cover the cost of owning and developing the hundreds of millions of dollars of assets purchased by the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, and the Act that governs it, were established in 2011 with a limited lifespan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ELast year, the Government established an Advisory Board on Transition, to provide recommendations on the future role, functions and powers of the Government in Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBy the middle of this year we will have a better idea about what the right structure in Christchurch should be, and implementing this structure will help maintain progress towards long-term recovery in the city and its surrounds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EConclusion\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis is the kind of Budget a responsible Government can deliver when it\u2019s following a plan that\u2019s working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s finances are sound and the economy is doing well \u2013 thanks to the hard work of New Zealand households and businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EUnder John Key\u2019s positive leadership, the Government has been stable and cohesive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThat has helped build New Zealanders\u2019 confidence, both in their homes and at work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is in good shape, though we\u2019re not complacent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThere are very real risks in the world but New Zealand is much more resilient now than when we took office in 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EOur challenge is to secure for our economy and for our communities the hard-won gains this country has made through to 2020 and beyond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders can look to that future with well-deserved confidence and optimism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EMr Speaker,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI commend this Budget to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00228a9dadf51e644eb1a90f52ae8b977b52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a9dadf51e644eb1a90f52ae8b977b52\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E \u201CWait until tomorrow.\u201D, they said. \u201COne sleep to go.\u201D, which was a bit rich for a Government that spent 7 years sleeping at the wheel. If this is a plan that is working, then why have we seen today one of the biggest spends on alleviating child poverty, which this Government has known of for 7 years and done nothing about until now? Why has this Government been panicked into doing something about the desperate Aucklanders who cannot get to own their own homes? They are hardly features of the Budget at all, and we know why: because the Government cobbled it together in just the last few weeks alone. I move, That all the words after \u201CThat\u201D be omitted and the following substituted: \u201Cthis House has no confidence in a government which has failed to deliver the jobs, the incomes, or the surplus they promised; squandered the golden economic weather; failed to diversify our economy; failed to fix the housing crisis; neglected regional New Zealand; and is tired, out of touch, and out of ideas.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is demonstrating management by sleepwalk, because that is what this Budget is. This is a Budget that manages the decline. There is nothing in this for the long-term future of New Zealand that will give hope and confidence to those who are working hard and struggling to get ahead. So we see now this surplus of $176 million for next year. Well, just remember\u2014just remember\u2014last time the Government promised a surplus of over $300 million, and the deficit is over $600 million. It is the billion-dollar gap\u2014the billion-dollar gap\u2014that has materialised in 1 year alone. So my message to New Zealanders is this: the Government might have promised it, it might have budgeted for it, but you cannot trust it because it never ever happens. It is a continuation of the dance of the seven veils. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EPoor old Bill English there, ever since about 2010 another veil comes off and a promise is made. In 2011 another veil comes off and the promise is made again. We have had that repeatedly. And now we have had another veil removed and we know that there are still more to go. I do not know what he is trying to hide. It is some sort of fiscal gender-reassignment or something. Who knows what it is? He cannot produce a surplus. This is not a real surplus in this Budget, and he knows it. New Zealanders will see it for what it is: a desperate Government that cannot fulfil the core election promise that it made last year that it would return the books to a balance and a surplus. And there is a good reason why: good Governments manage the Government\u2019s books to achieve a surplus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThere is a reason why the last Labour Government managed the Government\u2019s books to achieve nine successive surpluses, because when you get a surplus you do the stuff that builds a nation. You can put in place your New Zealand Superannuation Fund to pre-fund superannuation, because when you take a close look at these books, what you see is that by 2018 the cost of New Zealand superannuation is going to rise\u2014it is going to increase\u2014by nearly $1 billion a year, in just 3 years\u2019 time. And what is this Government doing for it? Absolutely nothing\u2014absolutely nothing. That is the disgrace of this Government: no forward looking, no sense of the future, manage it by sleepwalking, hope that nobody notices, and come back next year and it will all be the same again. That is what this Budget represents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThere is no future in this Budget. There is no hope in this Budget. The next generation, the next Government, and the future generations of New Zealanders are going to have to cobble together and patch up the failures of this Government, including meeting the cost of New Zealand superannuation. This mob over here have no sense of future and do not know what to do about it, so they crib around the edges\u2014a million dollars here, a million dollars there. It is not enough to build a strong, resilient New Zealand. The Government has failed. It has failed. We have had the surplus, we have had the surplus chimera, we have had the ethereal result\u2014it will not happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThen we have got the challenge of dealing with child poverty. Well, we will give the Government some credit for that. It has taken a step\u2014it has taken a step. The Government has increased benefits, but it has paid for it by taking it out of the future-building initiative KiwiSaver. It has taken away the kick-start for those future generations of New Zealanders who need\u2014and know they need\u2014to save for their retirement, all those parents lining up to sign their kids up for it because they know that at least if they get that kick-start, then by the time they get into their adult lives, they have got a little nest egg to continue to build on. It is just an incentive when you are a youngster to carry on with the saving. This Government steals from the next generation, and it does not know what to do about their needs. That is what it is doing. It is taking off from the top of Working for Families to pay for it. This is a \u201Cfiddling-around Budget\u201D. This is a \u201Cfudge-it Budget\u201D. The Government is doing it again. It has no long-term plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThen there are the initiatives on housing. Well, this is the biggest rort, of course. This is the biggest rort. It has got new tax plans, new rules that Bill English proudly announced today: \u201CWe\u2019ve got new rules on tax.\u201D Two days ago he was saying that they probably will not work. I do not know how they got left in the speech when 2 days ago he was saying that they will not even work, but he has put them in there. I want to say this about the house build programme, because the Labour Party has been saying for some years that the way to deal with the housing supply problem, the way to make sure that more Aucklanders get into an affordable home, is that the Government, the State, must lead the house building programme. So I credit this Government for taking the first step of saying that it will do that, of putting land aside. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut I want to say this: we will support that initiative on one condition. I look at John Key and I look at Bill English and I look at Nick Smith and I look at Steven Joyce and I look at Paula Bennett. None of them will look back. I say to each of you, because you are the ones in charge of housing, you know what is going on: make this promise to New Zealanders. Make the promise to New Zealanders that every single one of the houses built on the land you have released in the announcement today will be an affordable house that ordinary New Zealanders can get into. Make that promise today. You have got a dozen TV cameras around here you can make it to. Make the promise today, Mr Prime Minister. Do not get on your hindquarters in 15 minutes\u2019 time and flap about like a rooster on heat and give your usual dog and pony routine. Make a genuine promise, one that you are prepared to stick by. Be straight with New Zealanders. Tell them: \u201CWe are serious about affordable housing.\u201D Make sure those houses are affordable houses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ETo Paula Bennett I say: make sure you discharge your responsibilities to all New Zealanders, to good New Zealanders, to the hard-working New Zealanders, who still hold on to that dream of getting their own home. Make sure you deliver. Your failure to deliver will be if you cannot guarantee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0b5a1bd729f4a4e9aae7484e0643fb3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The member opposed HomeStart. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f25beeb84f214892921781ffe6d31bb4\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014if you will not guarantee, Nick Smith\u2014that every single one of those houses will be an affordable home that ordinary New Zealanders in Auckland can get into. Then you will have failed. You will have failed New Zealanders and you will have failed the test that you have set for all Governments, which is to look after average New Zealanders. So far, all you have done is look after your rich mates. That is not a policy. Your home build policy is not a policy for the property developers who contribute so handsomely to National Party coffers. It ought to be a promise to ordinary New Zealanders who want only to get into their own home. That is what I ask you to do. That is what I am asking you to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI want to say this about ACC. We have had the repeat of the promise about ACC, and we know that it is not a promise\u2014we know that it is not a promise. It is \u201CIt could happen.\u201D, \u201CIt might happen.\u201D, \u201CIt\u2019s 2 years away.\u201D, \u201CWe\u2019ve got further work to do on it.\u201D So I say this to Nikki Kaye, to Bill English, and to John Key: make the promise. Look New Zealanders in the eye and say that you will cut ACC levies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221769fb78653e41478da6d59032b752d0\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Do it now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cb66fe6c0ed46028d19995320a5ccb4\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: You could do it now; Sue Moroney is right. You could do it now. You have not. You have held on to the cash. You have deprived good businesses and hard-working New Zealanders of their cash, and now you have promised that it might happen sometime in the future. Make the promise now. Mr Prime Minister, look into those TV cameras when you are up there prancing around, and make the promise to good New Zealanders that you will see through to make those ACC cuts so Kiwis will have some money back in their pockets. Make a promise you are prepared to stand by. Make a promise that New Zealanders can rely on and trust. It would be the first one in your political career. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis is a disappointing Budget in so many other ways. This is a Budget where New Zealanders were hanging out, looking for an expression of hope for the future. This is a Government that has been 7 years in office\u20147 years in office\u2014and that has enjoyed the best of times: record high dairy prices, record high export volumes, and growth of over 3 percent. Now we know it is all going down. You look at the projections and they are all about to go down. This is as good as it gets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders deserve better\u2014New Zealanders deserve better. They deserve a Government that is thinking about the regions, that is thinking about what happens to the regions when that dairy cash dries up and those small towns and hamlets across New Zealand struggle to wonder what to do next. The farmers, the stock and station agents, and all those who contract to the farming sector have to buckle down, batten down the hatches. They are wondering what to do next. They are going to look at this Government and say: \u201CYou let this happen. It didn\u2019t have to be like this. You had the opportunity. You had the good times. You could have prepared better.\u201D They will say and we will say that you blew it. Bill English and John Key, you blew it. You have turned up today with a Budget that just continues the same sleepwalking, somnambulant management that we have got used to for the last 7 years. It is not good enough\u2014it is not good enough. New Zealanders deserve better, and we need better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe are facing some difficult times ahead. The Government knows it; we all know it. New Zealanders know it, and they were looking for an expression, for a statement of vision and leadership such as we have never seen before with this Government. And we have not got it. It has been more of the same\u2014fiddle around the edges, faff around the sides, and carry on as if no one is noticing. Well, they are noticing. What we now need is a Government that is genuinely focused on the future. It is not just about dealing with the issue of making the books give the appearance of a surplus that is not going to happen; it is about a Government that is focused on building a nation and on giving people opportunities. It is fine to lift the benefits, fine to help those people, even though you are making it harder for sole parents with kids at the age of 3 and over. That is going to be the real hardship. How are those folks going to cope? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt is fine to make some of those gestures, but what those people who are out of a job want is a job. What those people are desperately in need of is more work\u2014not the 1-hour jobs that Steven Joyce promotes and encourages; they are not even half jobs, they are sort of minuscule jobs. They want real jobs that mean they can earn a living income and get ahead. That is what New Zealanders want. The Government cannot even keep its promise to add the 150,000 jobs by next year. The Government has had to abandon that one. The Government cannot even meet the promise to lift incomes by an extra $7,000 a year by next year, either. It has had to push that out too. The Government knows how bad things are, and it serves to us this sort of mess of potage today and pretends that it is all sweet and rosy. Well, it is not, and New Zealanders know it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders are hanging out for a Government that is serious about lifting all New Zealanders, serious about what is happening in the regions, serious about what is happening down on the farm, and serious about what is happening in small to medium sized enterprises. There is nothing in this Budget for them, except continuing to hold on to the ACC levies that the Government does not need to. The Government has whacked on a few extra taxes\u2014a departure tax and an arrival tax\u2014and it is going to tax every user of the telecommunication services with a new levy on the operators; $150 million a year. Do you know who is going to pay for that? Ordinary New Zealanders. Do you know why the Government thinks that that measure is an OK thing to do? It is because it does not care about ordinary New Zealanders. That is why for 7 years the Government has shut New Zealanders out of their own homes. That is why for 7 years the Government has not cared about those living in dire poverty. The Government just does not care. We have seen more of that in this Budget today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders need a Government that is focused on a number of core things: diversifying our economy; making sure that the State plays its role in investing and encouraging private investment in other sectors in the economy to boost and diversify it; making sure that our people and our education system are prepared for the future; preparing young people for the jobs of tomorrow, not repeating the jobs of today; and really, genuinely fixing our housing crisis. It is nice to have the building plan, but it will not be fast enough, and there will still be people without a home in years to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI think of people like Gene Simmons\u2014not Gene Simmons; Gene Harris. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b32550c58fe4cd1a01d67557122d145\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a83d0d86bdd40d89772e87bac680918\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: There is Gerry Brownlee. Gerry Brownlee says he was asleep. Well, he has woken up after 7 years now. He has woken up after 7 years and come to life. I think of people like Gene Harris, who is in his 30s and is a marketing manager. He rents a two-bedroom flat in Hillcrest, on the North Shore, with his partner and his baby. He contacted us because he is sick and tired of this Government for its arrogance and its contempt, and for laughing at people like him. He told us this: \u201CThe opportunities are few and far between. Even if you\u2019re on a good wage, you can\u2019t get ahead, and there\u2019s something just not right about that.\u201D Like so many thousands of other New Zealanders, a good man is struggling and working hard to get ahead, and he cannot because of the failures of this Government. That is what this Government represents; that is what this Government has achieved. It has let down far too many others. So Gene Harris is looking forward to a Government that is serious about building the nation, building our economy, strengthening it, giving him and his family an opportunity, and letting them realise their dreams of homeownership and a secure future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThen there is Simon Paterson, who has also been in touch with us. He is an IT manager from Mosgiel, who has a family, and, like many other Kiwis who live in the regions, he is sick and tired of seeing the regions neglected. He told us this: \u201CMiddle New Zealanders like me are feeling increasingly left out in terms of stuff like health care and education.\u201D We know that those figures today on education are not enough to fill the gap that has been slowly developing in funding for that sector. He said: \u201CThere\u2019s been tax breaks for the rich but nothing for anyone else.\u201D That is how he summarises this Government, and it is impossible to disagree with him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe need a Government that is focused on the future; that is focused on all of New Zealand; that wants to fix the real problems; that is thinking far ahead; that is not tinkering at the edges; that is not sleepwalking around letting more and more New Zealanders down; that is creating those real opportunities; that when it says it is going to generate more housing, seriously does so; and that when it says it is going to lift incomes by $7,000 a year, actually is serious, genuine, and honest about it and does so. Not like this one\u2014not like this Government that loosely makes promises it has no intention of keeping. That is what characterises this Government time and time again. It is time to have a Government that can write a Budget that is good for New Zealand; that is good for all New Zealanders; that makes a difference; that will support the wealth generators and the wealth creators; that sustains the entrepreneurs, the innovators, the dreamers, and the doers\u2014not a Government that faffs around the edges supporting the extremely rich who contribute to the National Party coffers but that does nothing for the vast majority of the rest of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7cb2c22fcf5411b8ee04a1f690fc107\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7cb2c22fcf5411b8ee04a1f690fc107\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E That was singularly the worst reply speech by a Leader of the Opposition that this Parliament has heard. There could be a reason for that. A cynic could say that the real leader of the Opposition has not actually given his speech yet, but let us be honest. Phil Goff would have done a lot better, David Shearer would have done a lot better, and David Cunliffe would have done a lot better and all three of them know it\u2014all three of them know it. That was Andrew Little, and the operative word is \u201Clittle\u201D because it is a touch kind to say that he has done anything more than \u201Clittle\u201D in the entire time he has been the Leader of the Opposition. He has done nothing\u2014nada. That is why the speech was so bad. He basically agreed with the Budget. He did not actually have an idea. This man, Mr Andrew Little, is like one of the least favoured contestants on The Bachelor. He knows that he is never getting a rose, that boy. He is not sure why he is there. He is not sure what he is actually doing. He knows that under normal circumstances, he should just say that he is happy to be there. But he is not happy either. He is \u201CAngry Andrew\u201D. He has had 6 months in the job. He is the do-nothing Leader of the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf411fd2ec02479fa74fc107c089db98\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: At least he doesn\u2019t pull ponytails.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a001c35201584b11855a03871dc38b38\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, you are right. You are right, Annette. You are right. I take it back. He has done one thing\u2014he has done one thing. He has spent a week with Ed Miliband working out how to lead the Labour Party in a general election. And how did that go? It went about as well as Boo\u2019s and Pistol\u2019s holiday in Australia with Johnny Depp. That is how well that went. No, the truth of it, when it comes to the Labour Party, is that the only time it is busy and the only time it is focused\u2014actually, the only time it is any good\u2014is when it is having a leadership contest. And goodness knows it is good at that, because it has them every 5 minutes. There may be another one just coming, because I am telling you now that Phil Goff, David Shearer, David Cunliffe\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d99cf5771bd44ba8b38555b04f4d2d63\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: David Parker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220faba5d235004391be01d27f83c225a5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014David Parker\u2014all four of them know. They are looking down. They will not look up. They will not make eye contact. You could have done a lot better\u2014a lot better. You were good back then, you guys\u2014good back then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ELet us go to the Budget because it is a waste of time with the Opposition. This was another outstanding Budget delivered by a man whom we are lucky to have. The Budget was fair. It was thoughtful. It was reasonable. This National Government is the first Government to raise benefits in 43 years, and I am proud of that fact. There is $25 a week for 110,000 beneficiary families, supporting 190,000 children. There is $12.50 a week in Working For Families and $12 in the minimum tax credit. Fifty-three thousand low-income families and a further 103,000 children will benefit. Tens of thousands of other families will get a bit more. In one way or another, this Budget touches half a million Kiwi kids, and it is fair and reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThere is an increase in childcare in the Budget so that people can go out to work and have that extra support. We have heard it before\u2014it has been said before and it is not new\u2014but this is what I call it: compassionate conservatism. I am proud to lead a Government that believes in that. This Budget is a continuation of the good work of this Government. I think we can all remember that we are the Government that brought in free doctors visits and free prescriptions for under-13-year-olds. We are the Government that insulated every State house that we could. We are the Government that provided the funding for 240,000 other homes to be insulated and to have heat units. We are the Government that supported breakfast in schools. We are the Government that supported low-income schools, or low-decile schools, to have social workers. We are the Government that has provided the new Children\u2019s Teams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EIn the worst\u2014the very worst\u2014of the economic conditions this country faced, we stood alongside those vulnerable New Zealanders. We did not reduce their pensions. We did not reduce their entitlements. We were there for them, and we are there for them today. My thanks go to our support parties: to ACT and David Seymour for the leadership he is showing, to United Future and Peter Dunne for the leadership he is showing, and to the M\u0101ori Party and Te Ururoa Flavell and Marama Fox for the support and great work they do. Collectively, we provide strong and stable Government for this country, and the results are on display.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ELet us turn to the macro-economic numbers for a moment, because you have heard a load of nonsense from Andrew Little about those, and you are going to hear a lot more from his sidekick, Grant Robertson. Well, here are the facts on the table, and Labour will not enjoy them. Mr Robertson, Labour is about as good at running the economy as the Greeks are. Let us get the facts on the table. You know how to do one thing, spend money, OK? You know how to print money and spend money. In seven Budgets, this Government, on average, has spent additional resources of $680 million per year\u2014appropriate for the times. Labour spent $3 billion in each of its seven Budgets. When National is in office, New Zealanders stay in our country. They do not leave; they stay in our country. When Labour is in office, they are off to Australia as quick as they can spell \u201Cdidgeridoo\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ELet us get a few other economic facts on the table so that Labour can digest them while it is digesting the Budget. ACC: what a mess we inherited from Labour. There were dozens of unfunded programmes. What a mess the books were in\u2014a burgeoning State sector that was out of control. Wages could not keep up with inflation. Interest rates were soaring. Inflation was high. The current account: Michael Cullen from the Opposition benches told us that he would fix it; he made it worse. Productivity was falling. If Labour wants to go head-to-head with National on economic management, bring it on, I say\u2014bring it on. I am more than happy to have that discussion any day of the week. Here are the facts: when we got into office\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022817de4f255dd4c33b8587dde4f9c5c98\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Show us your surplus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297f41032aa8c4af0bce9d8112b9fbaa1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they do not\u2014[Interruption] I will give them one thing: they are animated about my speech. They sure as hell were not animated about Andrew Little\u2019s. Here is the deal: you vote for the Budget, because you know you want to, and I will sit down and we may as well just call it quits. You know you want to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EUnder our Government, we have halved the projections of debt. When we are here, it is 26.5 percent. It was going to be 60 percent. Do not take my word for it; go and have a look at the IMF numbers. When it comes to surpluses, our numbers are better than those of the UK, the United States, Australia, and the eurozone. They will be every year until 2020 and beyond. That is what good economic management looks like. And when it comes to debt\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5e9a9c96a82441da475fac01634a93e\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: When will you start repaying the $88 billion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9e40e93692b45a682ba65f0722c3024\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, at least they are listening, I suppose. When it comes to debt, yes, our net debt levels are lower than those of Australia, the UK, the US, and the eurozone. They will be until 2020, and they will be beyond then. We are creating tens of thousands of jobs. And when it comes to employment\u2014there are 36 countries in the OECD\u2014only four have a higher rate of employment than we do, and 31 have a lower rate than this Government is delivering for New Zealanders. Pensions are rising. Minimum wages are up. Wages are rising faster than inflation. This is good economic management.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ELet me turn to child hardship. The fastest way out of poverty is through work, and this Government knows that. I am proud to say that there are 42,000 fewer children in benefit homes today than there were 3 years ago\u201442,000 children who are getting to see, through their own eyes, the value of work and how it can make a difference to their own lives. Like I did through my mother, they are seeing today, with their parents in front of them, that hard work and enterprise are the way to do things. The sign of a decent society is how you look after the sick, the vulnerable, and those in need. But in return for that, there is mutual obligation\u2014mutual obligation. I say: if you can work, you should work. That is what I say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EI want to thank Paula Bennett and Anne Tolley personally for the great work they are doing now when it comes to the extensive changes we have made to welfare\u2014long-lasting changes, compassionate changes. There is expectation built into what we do; and, yes, we brought in work obligation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e00d466862940759e426cfdea72f027\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Forcing the mothers of 3-year-olds out to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd3219a462c1442f97ae554be32a8740\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is very interesting. Mr Robertson has just said that someone whose youngest child is 3 years old should not actually have to go out and look for a part-time job. Well, tell that to the tens of thousands of Kiwi families who do that every day. They do that, half the time, after 14 weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EI will show you how welfare is working. We have the lowest number of people on the equivalent of the DPB since 1988. Teenage pregnancy rates are collapsing. The attitude at Work and Income has changed. When you go there now, you do not go in to sign up for a benefit; they try to get you a job and they give you the skills and the capability to do all that. There will inevitably be some people who will get up and say that the increase today is not enough. Well, I say this: it is 25 times better than any Government in New Zealand has done for 43 years. Do not even start by trying to tell me that $1,300 a year will not make a difference to the lowest-income families, and that up to $50 per week extra for childcare will not make a difference. It will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EI now want to turn to the issue of debt forgiveness. It is a very important package that Todd McClay will be running. This is a very simple story, I think, because the responsibility of liable parents is to make child support payments\u2014that is the responsibility of liable parents. They have a legal obligation to pay for their kids and they have a moral obligation to pay for their kids, and they should be doing it. But, sadly, too many people are not, and this needs to change. Why? Because, for a start, we need to breathe hope into those 120,000 families and individuals who see themselves in a hopeless position. This is the situation: they owe $3.2 billion. Only $700 million of that is principal; the other $2.5 billion is interest and penalties. What is more, of that $3.2 billion, $800 million is owed by people who live in Australia, and $800 million is owed by people who live outside New Zealand and outside Australia. We are a very pragmatic Government. What we are saying to those 120,000 people is: come back, start making the principal payments to those low-income families that you owe it to, and we will forgive the interest and we will forgive the penalties. That is $1.7 billion over 4 years and more money for those low-income families, and probably even a chance for those 120,000 people to be able to come back to New Zealand one day themselves. That is what a pragmatic Government in action looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EIt is no great surprise that in all of the seven Bill English Budgets there is always more for health and more for education. We know that when it comes to the health system, it is not just about throwing more money around; it is actually about lifting productivity and about doing things smarter. Actually, I want to take this moment in Parliament today to acknowledge the doctors, nurses, and carers who do such a magnificent job of looking after people in our system. There is more money in this Budget for health\u2014$98 million for elective and orthopaedic operations, $12 million to extend the pilot scheme for bowel cancer screening, and $76 million for hospices to extend palliative care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to education, when was the last time you heard the Labour Party get up and say that it did not like national standards? Oh, that is right: those members try to brush that under the carpet because\u2014guess what\u2014they have finally woken up to the fact that if you cannot read and write, it is pretty hard to participate in modern New Zealand. When was the last time that you heard them get up and say that we should not be paying good teachers more and having professional development? We know that our schools are all about having high-quality principals and high-quality teachers. Yes, in this Budget there is more for early childhood education, and more kids will be getting National Certificate of Educational Achievement level 2. And I am proud to say that there are more M\u0101ori and Pacific students doing as fabulously well in our education system. There is more for special needs, and thanks to David Seymour and the ACT Party, there is more choice, actually, in our education system. I could talk about so many other issues that are contained in this Budget. From housing and ultra-fast broadband to the plight of the kiwi, to cutting ACC levies, to biosecurity, and to the men and women in uniform, National is delivering on every front.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ELet me finish with this: on election night, as I have done in the past, I got up and I said to New Zealanders: \u201CI intend to govern for all New Zealanders.\u201D, and I also said that night that I would focus on children who are most in need. I acknowledged that through no fault of their own they were growing up in some of the most deprived conditions in New Zealand. I believe that in the last 6\u00BD years, we have stood by those families. In the toughest of times, we have protected them as best we could. I know my history. I know the struggle my mother had. I know how tough it is for those low-income families. Today is the day when we are in the position to stand up and just give them a little more\u2014and rightfully so. We have done this in this Budget, and rightfully so, because Bill English\u2019s economic leadership has allowed us to do it and to afford it. This is a great Budget for New Zealand. I am proud to have Bill English as the Minister of Finance of this country. May there be many more Budgets to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022a64e6857adf64969b7b1eab90aa51cc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a64e6857adf64969b7b1eab90aa51cc0\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Today John Key could have kept his promise to reduce child poverty. He could have kept his promise. Today John Key could have backed all of those young New Zealanders out there who are doing it tough. Today children in poverty in this country needed a game-changer, but, instead, the Prime Minister chose to do the barest minimum for the poorest children and to abandon the hopes of our younger generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn a classic display of smoke and mirrors, John Key gave to our poorest children with one hand and took away with the other. An increase to benefits\u2014desperately needed and woefully overdue\u2014is eroded in many cases by reduced accommodation and emergency payments. Meanwhile, instead of the Government fixing Working for Families, it remains broken and even more unfair, with only those on the lowest incomes set for an increase, which in most cases will be the price of a block of cheese. Perhaps the cruellest reveal today was John Key\u2019s plan to force young mums of toddlers\u2014parents of just 3-year-old babies\u2014into work. Forcing the parents of toddlers into work is not a solution to child poverty. Those parents will be earning something like $2.28 an hour in the hand as a result of this change yet will be significantly increasing their costs. Denying young New Zealanders the $1,000 KiwiSaver kick-starter, which older generations got, is not going to help them make their way in the world either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis Budget is not for our kids and it is not for those under 40\u2014the abandoned generation. This is the Budget of a Government that has abandoned those under 40. John Key boasts that he is building a stronger economy, but I want to know who he is building it for, because unless the economy is working for everyone it is not working. When a young couple is trying to save for a deposit on a home and the price of a house is increasing by $1,000 a day, do not tell them that the economy is working. When Kiwis in their 20s spend 4 or 5 years at university but the only job they can find at graduation is in a call centre, do not tell them that the economy is working. When nurses and teachers are getting a 1 or 2 percent pay rise this year but the chief executive officer of ANZ is pocketing more than $4 million, it is clear who in John Key\u2019s economy is working for. And when thousands of our children show up to school hungry every day, it cannot be right to say that the economy is working. An economy that delivers so much for so few, while abandoning the rest, is broken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EBut there is an alternative: a strong, good economy, one that works for all of us. And \u201Call of us\u201D includes our kids. The worst of this Budget is the broken promise\u2014the promise that John Key gave to our kids\u2014because despite all the Prime Minister\u2019s promises about tackling child poverty in his third term, today we see the barest acknowledgment of the drivers of poverty: low income and low wealth. A quarter of all New Zealand kids now live in families where there is not enough income to provide the basics. An additional 35,000 children are living in severe poverty since National came to power and John Key took the role of Prime Minister. Those kids deserve family incomes that are sufficient for them to thrive now and they need the chance of a good life in the future. I am sorry, but a $25 benefit increase, which could be eroded to less than half of that by cuts in the parents\u2019 accommodation supplement and hardship grants, will not go far for a single mum with three kids\u2014it just will not. Four or five dollars a week each for those kids is not enough to lift those children out of child poverty, and the Government knows this. Children needed a game-changer today and they did not get it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Green Party\u2019s plan for a saving scheme for every child is an example of an inequality circuit-breaker. It is an example of the game-changer. Our Kids\u2019 KiwiSaver policy would offer all newborns a kick-start deposit of $1,000\u2014a kick-start deposit that this Government has just ripped away from children, from future generations\u2014and matching savings contributions would help families save for their children\u2019s future. Under this policy most kids could reasonably expect to build a nest egg of around $12,900 by the time they get to 18 years old, which they could then use to help fund a good education, to invest in an adult KiwiSaver for long-term savings, or use as a deposit on a home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EMaintaining this gap, as National is, between those with a lot and the rest of the country is bad economics. The OECD warned late last year that inequality had inflicted more damage on the New Zealand economy than on any other developed country, wiping 10 percent off our potential economic growth. Poverty is dangerous for children\u2014it is dangerous for children\u2014but it is also clear evidence of an economy that is broken, an economy that is not working for everyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EYoung New Zealanders were promised a brighter future by National some elections ago, but in reality the future is looking darker for most New Zealanders under 40. People under 40 have been abandoned by John Key. They are the abandoned generation. New Zealanders aged under 40 have never been less likely to own their own home, never been more burdened with student debt, never been more likely to be underemployed and, in the case of children, never been more likely to be sick from a disease of poverty or to turn up to school hungry. What amazes me, actually, about young New Zealanders is how often they stay really positive and hopeful despite how much is stacked against them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ELast week, like many of you, I watched the 2014 Victoria University graduates as they paraded down Lambton Quay. Among them was the younger brother of a colleague of mine who graduated this year with an architecture degree. It is quite a thing to get an architecture degree. You need a B\u002B average just to make it through the first year, and then you have 4 years of full-on study and the all-night grafting that follows. This young man graduated at the top of his class, not just in architecture but in the entire school of design. For all his hard work and his tremendous successes, this brilliant, creative young man has come away with a $40,000 student loan and a job as a cook in a cafe. He earns just over the minimum wage. I am not denying this young man his hope or his pride or his happiness after one of the biggest weeks of his life. He quite likes his job in the cafe. He knows that there are many people who are much worse off than him. But we really need to ask whether this is actually the brighter future that John Key was promising young New Zealanders, or whether it is yet another sign of a Government that has abandoned them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI am 45. I am lucky enough to have finished most of my degree before the student loan scheme came along, but the average 22-year-old woman who graduates with a Bachelor\u2019s degree today could be 50 years old before she pays off her student loan. It is a staggering thought but this is the reality for the abandoned generations. Then again, if you are young and you do not have a tertiary qualification, if you are a labourer or a shop assistant or a rest home carer, the future looks even tougher. The National Government has abandoned young workers and young families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI want to tell you about some young New Zealanders whom this Government has abandoned. Sarah and Rob\u2014these are not their real names, because we know what happens to members of the public who critique the Government and how they get treated. These are not their real names, but they are very real young people. Sarah is a young mum aged 30 who, along with her husband Rob, is expecting their second child any day now. Their little girl, Eva, is 5. Sarah volunteers for the Salvation Army helping to feed homeless people, and she worked part-time in a shop before her morning sickness got to be too bad. Rob has a heart condition but he works very hard, sometimes 50 or 60 hours a week just to bring home enough money for their family. But even when both of them were working they were stable but certainly not financially secure. A few weeks after Sarah had to quit her job for her baby\u2019s sake, Rob\u2019s hours were cut from 50 to 60 hours to 38 hours. Even though Rob earns a reasonable hourly rate, they earn just below the median wage. It is not enough to cover their rent in Auckland, their food, their petrol, and, crucially, any unexpected expenses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ESarah told me, when I talked to her about her life and what is happening with her, that if Rob loses any more hours a week\u2014and it is likely that he will\u2014they simply will not be able to cope. \u201CBut we\u2019re lucky,\u201D she says, \u201Cbecause there are places to get things, like the Sallies, to help, but this is not comfortable. I work with those who are homeless, and I worry at how close our family are getting.\u201D Sarah and Rob\u2019s story is by no means out of the ordinary\u2014in fact, it is typical of so many New Zealanders, working hard but barely getting by, and whose prospects for economic security are very low. They are the abandoned generation. They got absolutely no help from this Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EBill English has told us about the increased numbers of New Zealanders in work. What he did not say was that among those he claimed to have a job are people who are working as little as an hour a week and who are doing unpaid work, like on a family farm. A staggering 104,000 New Zealanders whom the Government boasts are in work are officially considered underemployed. That means they are working but they are not earning enough to live and they want more hours. In the past 2 years alone National has overseen a 20 percent increase in the number of Kiwis who are underemployed. Most of these people are young. Disproportionate numbers are M\u0101ori and the disabled. Lots of them are parents whose children are living in poverty. Most are blue-collar workers like labourers and carers. The National Government is creating an enormous underclass of the underemployed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EAnd it gets worse. The lowest-earning half of New Zealanders has seen no real rise in their incomes in the 6 years that John Key has been in power. Last year when the economy grew by 3.3 percent, average wages increased by only half as much, 1.7 percent. I think workers have every right to question where the fruits of their labour are going. The answer is that the fruits of their labour are going to someone else. The economy is not working for half of all wage earners. Half of all wage earners have been abandoned by this Government. They are prisoners of an economy that does not work for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIt would be easy to say that John Key\u2019s Government does not care about young people\u2014very easy to say that. But I think its greatest sin and his greatest sin is nonchalance. It is fundamentally out of touch with the real lives of New Zealanders. The National Party lives in a completely different world. This is probably news to John Key, who, until recently, considered himself quite in touch with New Zealanders\u2014at least those who had ponytails. But this Budget was clearly drawn up by people who have never sat at the kitchen table with a mountain of bills and agonised over whether they should pay for the power or their son\u2019s school camp\u2014agonised over these daily household decisions. These are people who have never had an enormous student loan, who mostly got their education for free. The Budget was drawn up by a National Party caucus of people who are comfy, with their bountiful portfolios and property, and out of touch with the plight of young first-home buyers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIt was written by people like the Minister for Social Development, Anne Tolley, who actually said that if your kids are hungry, put some bread in the toaster\u2014the \u201CLet them eat toast Budget\u201D approach to child poverty is what is prevalent in this Government. They are people who have no idea how frightening it is to lose a job and then suffer the financial double whammy of losing Working for Families payments as well. This is an out-of-touch Budget, written by the out of touch, for the out of touch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ESo let me put you in touch, if you like, with a real family like Sarah and Rob. Sarah and Rob are up against it every single week. Like most young families, they are one large unexpected expense away from financial disaster. About the same time that Sarah had to give up her job their rental home was discovered to be full of asbestos. Their daughter\u2019s asthma was getting worse and worse, and their doctor eventually discovered it was the asbestos causing it and told them they had to leave their home, practically immediately. They were forced to shift and the bottom fell out of their lives. With no savings and no job security, they had no chance of buying a house. They struggled to get any recompense for the shoddy rental that caused their daughter\u2019s illness. Sarah had to drop a legal case that she tried to take because she just did not have the money to fight. She said to me: \u201COurs is a common story. We spend $400 a week for a two-bedroom house. We can\u2019t get a State house. There are no back-ups for low-income middle-class working families like ours.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ESo, Prime Minister, do not insult Rob and Sarah by telling them that the economy is working for them; do something to make it work for them. A good start would be giving Rob and Sarah the same shot at buying a house that previous generations had\u2014previous generations like the Prime Minister\u2019s. Here is a fact: people under 40 are much less likely to own their own home than they were before John Key came to power. Homeownership among people in their 30s has reduced by over 20 percent under National, and it is dropping faster for this age group than for any other. The Kiwi dream of a home\u2014any kind of home\u2014has been downgraded to the nightmare of \u201CGeneration Rent\u201D. National has abandoned the homeownership aspirations of young New Zealanders to protect the capital gains of their parents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThere are about 300,000 so-called mums and dads in New Zealand who own two or more homes. I am 45; I am one of them. It is a vast population of people like me and property investors\u2014many who are my age or older\u2014whom political parties are petrified of alienating with a comprehensive capital gains tax. But until politicians have the guts to fully stop the incentives that drive older New Zealanders to invest in property over more productive investments, younger people like Rob and Sarah will never have a chance to own their home. They will never have a chance. When Rob and Sarah get old, they are not expecting to own a home, let alone own two or three. The dramatic decline in homeownership amongst this abandoned generation is John Key\u2019s housing legacy\u2014a policy welcome mat to the baby boomers and an eviction notice to Generation X and Generation Y. I call on John Key to choose to back young New Zealanders into their own home. I call on John Key to be brave and to stop abandoning young New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI have heard commentators say how embarrassed they were when the Prime Minister made international headlines after pulling a cafe worker\u2019s ponytail, but for me the Prime Minister\u2019s hair-pulling antics are nothing compared with the embarrassment I feel at his decision to not feed hungry kids at school\u2014to not feed hungry kids at school. This decision, more than other, symbolises how much the National Government has lost touch with what really matters to New Zealanders. The Green Party\u2019s Facebook post on this on the day that he denied kids lunch was viewed by 1.2 million people\u20141.2 million people. More than a million were shocked that their Government would deny hungry kids a meal. An apple, a yoghurt, and a Marmite sandwich can unleash the potential of a child. How hard is that to support? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThere is an alternative to National\u2019s economy for the few. There is an alternative, and it works better. New Zealand will succeed only if all of us are succeeding. The Green Party will back young New Zealanders, women, M\u0101ori\u2014all of those who started behind on John Key\u2019s race to the top and have never been given a chance to catch up. Because we can pay families a decent wage; we just have to choose to. We can feed children when they are hungry at school; we just have to do it. We can reduce our carbon emissions; we just need the commitment. And we can eradicate child poverty, because the alternative\u2014to keep children poor\u2014is simply unacceptable. What this country so desperately needed today was imagination and leadership, the courage to make change and hope\u2014genuine hope\u2014for something so much better. It is possible for our small country to be run on the principles of sustainability, fairness, and community; we just need leaders who are prepared to do it. This is the new alternative; it is not only possible, it is proven. When our economy works for everyone, we are all better off. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002299d0d613901c4e82a734b01c153074ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299d0d613901c4e82a734b01c153074ad\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This is a \u201CSplit Enz Budget\u201D. Everywhere you look, there are deficits, and as the group Split Enz sang, \u201CI see red, I see red, I see red.\u201D Mr Key got up and talked about his State house experience, where a great society helped him out. And then he promptly forgot about it. Some of us remember our backgrounds, and we do not intend to forget the background we came from. We know what poverty smells, tastes, and feels like, and we do not pay it lip service of the type that those National backbenchers were saluting and clapping today. What did they do? Well, there is some lip service to disadvantaged families, but nothing to address why they have no income, or real low income\u2014nothing in the Budget at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EHere are the stand-outs. There is going to be a holiday tax: $6 if you leave the country, $16 if you come back. The Kiwi KickStart: well, the only people who got a kick in the guts today were middle-income New Zealanders. The Government is going to throw a further $50 million at a Wh\u0101nau Ora programme seriously condemned by the Audit Office. No, no, National will just ignore that and forget about real M\u0101ori needs. It will go along with these M\u0101ori sociologists from Auckland University and dish up the money, and never deal with real people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EAnd then we are going to have an extra $320 million in the district health board budget. If you think about the growing population and the growing ageing population in this country, and then you look at almost $200 million of unpaid debt from foreign hospital patients, this is a decline. Can these people not add up? But back to my point: every year they promise to get on top of the debt, and to reduce the country\u2019s economic vulnerability. They have made that promise again, for the seventh time today, because six times they have never kept it. This Government is in deeper debt, the surplus is always tomorrow, and the balance of payments deficit is worsening. What does that mean? Well, mum, if you are spending far too much of the money that is coming into the household, you and your family are going to go broke, and so is New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWhatever the Budget claims, it does nothing to solve any of the pressing problems facing New Zealand. And what a hysterical rant from a Prime Minister\u2014he has had 7 years to become a speech-maker. That was just dreadful\u2014the histrionics and the \u201Csieg heil\u201D - like behaviour of his caucus jumping up and saluting him. Those members from the provinces\u2014the provinces have got nothing today whatsoever, but, just like the Black Shirts, there they were saluting because they know no better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThere is nothing in this Budget that will fix the Government\u2019s finances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228971a4ad55ef40a3843db70d06320b3b\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Give Ron Mark a go!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e0207d1bfca4c01a07676f39730ae72\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It is no use ranting and raving at me; it is too late. Your day of reckoning is coming. You saw it in Northland. Prepare to see Northland over and over again around provincial New Zealand. The notion that the Minister of Finance is in any way competent and capable of managing New Zealand\u2019s economy is just risible. It is laughable. This is the deficit, you see: we start with the red in the public finance deficit. National has failed to get the country\u2019s finances in order, and all the boring, tedious, worn-out, over-used platitudes and excuses will no longer wash.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ENet core debt has risen consistently under National, heading to $70 billion. It was $10 billion when National came into office, and it is $70 billion now. Part of that is from the Canterbury earthquakes, but the rest is just incompetence. And there is worse on the horizon. And National\u2019s doctrinaire partial privatisation of the power companies\u2014did you hear Bill English yesterday? He said: \u201CDespite the fact that we sold 49 percent, we are getting greater dividends.\u201D He did not say: \u201CWe\u2019ve allowed them to boot the prices up so high that they\u2019re price-gouging households all over the country.\u201D, and that, to him, was good economics. How smug and arrogant can you possibly be? The fact is that Bill English has never, ever delivered a surplus. He has never, ever delivered a surplus, in stark contrast to the 14 years of surpluses under previous Governments, one of which I was the Treasurer\u2014[Interruption] Ha, ha! We got hit by the Asian financial crisis, but then, of course, we had experience. We are not doctrinaire. We understand economics. We are not just devoted to one theory of economics. I will make this prediction right now: Bill English will never, ever deliver a surplus. He will never, ever deliver an honest surplus. He is running out of words. His tenure of claiming competence in an ocean of failure will soon come to an end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe see red. We see red in the balance of payments deficit. All those farming and provincial members, all those farming and provincial\u2014[Interruption] Oh, it is danger time. It is serious danger time. It is tinder-dry. You see all of those provincial members up there? The balance of payments deficit is about us failing to export enough to pay for our imports. And all of those gentlemen up there come from export electorates. And what are they doing for those people in the countryside in terms of exporting? Not a mutter, not a murmur, not a syllable, not a sound. They will not raise a finger. It is \u201Csieg heil\u201D to the front bench\u2014\u201Cwhatever you say\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EHere we go, here we go. Balance of payments: last year, December 2014, our balance of payments deficit was $7.8 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba2f13f83d20443b84a67072e43d1293\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about \u201Cmanual labour\u201D again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022788c4bded15f48bfb99f9125d0c0c6f9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Our net international investment debt: what is being invested offshore into our country versus our country investing back into those countries offshore? It is a staggering $154 billion, Mr Bishop. That is what I am going to tell you about. And no amount of your nervous knee-knocking is going to change it. Let me tell you: you are a list member. There will not be a list by the time this gets out. You are a goner. Get all of the experience you can, because you are going on furlough. That net international investment debt is the equivalent of 65 percent of our country\u2019s GDP. This is PIIGS territory. This is PIIGS territory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI want to tell you this: we also see red in the provincial deficit. All over provincial New Zealand today, in the hamlets and on country roads, and in the villages all over the countryside in the provinces, there will be despair about this Budget. There is nothing in this Budget for provincial New Zealand, unless, of course, you live in the province of Auckland. No response for regional problems and no regional development strategy mean that the regions are stuck in the economic and social doldrums.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EUnemployment in Northland: 9.9 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022518140437edf4e48b1e5f21292581a96\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What are you doing about it? You\u2019re the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9df39ed98c1444685ac3ec22f97423e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: What I am doing about it is getting rid of you, and as soon as I can. My promise to the people of Northland is very sound: salvation is on its way. But the Bennetts of this world we are going to wipe from the political framework, because they see you as obstacles to their future. Bay of Plenty: 7.8 percent unemployment. Hawke\u2019s Bay: 7.3 percent unemployment. In Manawat\u016B and Wanganui\u2014or Whanganui, if you want to be politically correct\u2014it is 7.4 percent. It goes on and on and on. Farming prices: all are falling; fishing prices: falling; and forestry prices: falling. Gentlemen, when are you going to stand up for the provinces? Come on\u2014can I hear you now? No, all we have got is a deafening silence\u2014a deafening silence. Boy, they are going to regret it very shortly when their careers are over. They are going to say: \u201CI wish I had listened to New Zealand First. I wish I took the warning. I might have saved my province and myself.\u201D But seeing as they are only about themselves, well, they should save themselves now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EDo not forget that we over here understand what work looks like. We understand the toil, the sweat, and the agony of exporting offshore in order to keep a family going. These people bring money home to the family New Zealand, and we should salute them, not jeer and laugh at them, not ignore them. Does the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act reflect that? No. Paul Glass of Devon Funds Management pointed out recently: \u201C\u2026 New Zealand has some of the\u201D\u2014listen to this\u2014\u201Chighest real interest rates in the developed world \u2026\u201D He went on to say this\u2014what New Zealand First has been saying for years\u2014\u201COur interest rates have artificially pushed up our exchange rate which is damaging the productive part of the economy.\u201D New Zealand First says: \u201CAmen.\u201D to that. But what are these people doing about it? When farmers are going to the wall, when they go to the bank, and four out of 10 will be in trouble, what will these provincial members from Hamilton do then\u2014the Bennetts, Mr Mitchell, and, dare I say it, the man from the disclosed zombie town Whangarei? What is he going to do? What are all those M\u0101ori members who know that their people lie at the bottom of the economic heap going to do? You cannot go around hobnobbing with those people over there for their fellowship. You are going to have to make a stand for your people, and as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe productive part of the economy is the provinces, and National wantonly goes on abusing their loyalty. Will National change the monetary settings to help those provincial seats that it represents? No, National will not raise a finger. The Salvation Army came out the other day about overcrowding, low incomes, and unemployment in regional New Zealand, and some of the commentariat were surprised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister is full of promises. Recently, he skulked back up to Northland, to the Bay of Islands, and he said that he was \u201Cgoing to actively work to regain your trust and confidence.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288631ead83c04593a49f416344374667\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What did you say, Winnie?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2e22d5aea7740b49df108240739517b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I said: \u201CI expect that to mean that it will be in the Budget.\u201D So there I was today going through all of the Budget and looking for the 10 two-lane bridges, the P\u016Bhoi to Wellsford highway, the ultra-fast broadband roll-out, taxpayer-paid cellphone coverage, doing up the Auckland to Whangarei railway line, and investment in the most obvious port in this whole country, Whangarei. And was there anything in the Budget? Doughnuts\u2014nothing. The Prime Minister was going to actively work to regain your trust and confidence. Up north, we are not stupid. Forgiving we have been for so long, but stupid we are not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe see red in the public services deficit. Look at this: the reality is that many New Zealanders are faced with having to go on the unofficial waiting list in public hospitals before they get on the official one. Everywhere public services are being cut. Police numbers are capped at 2009 levels, and they claim to be getting on top of crime\u2014except that if you get caught now, you get a warning. You do not get charged; you only get a warning. Spending on police numbers has been capped since 2009. Write to the police and ask: how many policemen or women, front-line, were on duty in any given town on any night in this country, and they will not answer you. They say that they do not keep information in that form. Oh, really? Well, what form do you keep it in\u2014because we would like to know? For example, take the local police station in Kohukohu, in north Hokianga. It has been closed, meaning that there will be no police presence in the whole of north Hokianga. Just like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da17c875ebdf4b91ae3a0c7057285aff\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dac3d974ae84f29a6b0a80070de81b4\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I know what that Minister\u2019s specialty is. The Minister\u2019s specialty is rubbish, because he has got a rubbish house and he will not fix it up, and the family cannot stay any longer. It is so bad that you would not put a dog in it. Yes, it is rubbish, Minister, but get off your backside and do something, for the first time. Do not sit there on your highly overpaid income, on your highly over-enhanced life, charisma-free as you are, and claim that you are doing something. \u201CRubbish\u201D is the right word. It is rubbish. Will you fix it, Minister, rather than taking that essentially arrogant view so smugly portrayed by the National Party today? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253276834c7ba4c0d8f181f038b4c85e0\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s he talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228336846010714a0fac5573fc80e66f75\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: There is no use in the man from the woodwork lathe getting excited either. We know that his tutelage in respect of Christchurch has been disastrous. He is now the Minister of Defence. He knows nothing about defence, of course, which probably qualifies him for the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe see red in the standard of living deficit. You see, here is the point. Under National, one thing is incontrovertible and inarguable: the poor have got poorer and the middle-income people are getting poorer as well, and many old and retired people are now stressed out about how, if they keep on living, they are going to be able to afford to live. That is the real social condition in this country\u2014one of the greatest countries on earth, which used to be called Godzone. It has now, under National, under this economic theory, descended to this. The National Party members should be ashamed of themselves. Just because they get about $200,000 a year and most of them have got four homes somewhere around the country\u2014some have got 10\u2014they do not want to change anything, because they are on the pig\u2019s back, and everybody else is getting what is under the pig\u2019s tail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe standard of living deficit is dramatically bad. Then we have got this really significant thing, which is not in the Budget today. The Minister of Finance talked about GDP growth, but he never matched it with population growth. It is axiomatic that if GDP was to rise to a certain level and the population rose to the same level, at the same percentage, there is no progress at all. That is exactly what is not here. What is the GDP growth per person? What is the income per capita\u2014the measurement that every other country understands. Oh, no\u2014no mention of that whatsoever. Why? Because the moment that people knew that, they would know what a miserable failure at running this country this mass immigration party is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e636fbd610d43f48b20de3d018f2d60\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: And that from the refugees\u2019 friend!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226482b168d12d451c88239c190a36f171\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you see, again, he does not understand the difference between refugees on humanitarian grounds and mass immigration. We are a cultured party. We are people who understand international obligations. We are not as smugly arrogant\u2014sitting there in the boat, saying \u201CI\u2019m in the boat, Jack; forget about you.\u201D\u2014but we do understand about focused, planned immigration, which every Asian nation understands but not these sell-outs to big business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThere is the resilience deficit. You know, things are so bad that if we have one hiccup internationally with our commodities, we are in trouble. This is what the Reserve Bank Governor said the other day, on 30 April\u2014and I love this phrase; it is what is wrong with modern New Zealand politics and our institutions, and it is about the character of our nation\u2014\u201CHouse price inflation is elevated in Auckland.\u201D Really, that statement is about as bleeding obvious as \u201CThe Pope is a Catholic.\u201D That is what he said. That is New Zealand\u2019s present problem. We have people cosseted away with high incomes and salaries, many on the taxpayer\u2019s back, failing to tell the country honestly what is going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI want to make it very clear that we are going to fix up the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act at the first chance we get. New Zealand First is going to make sure that we have research and development, and regional policy taxation, and that immigration is, for the first time, a sound policy. We are going to govern for New Zealanders and for all those who are here legally. We are going to ensure that the exporters in the provinces and those people who make this country go and who build on production, not consumption, get a fair go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIt is a time for a reality check. Where is National\u2019s strategy plan and vision? It has not got one. The blunt truth is that there is absolutely no room for complacency about the New Zealand economy, because National has failed to look ahead and plan and invest for the future. Nothing in this Budget warrants any confidence in the National Government\u2019s management of the New Zealand economy. This is a Budget with deficits everywhere. Examine them carefully, and like Split Enz and Tim Finn, you will come to the same conclusion: \u201CI see red, I see red, I see red.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00229c9ce88763104255873f78104d298b12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c9ce88763104255873f78104d298b12\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tau katoa. Ka mihi r\u0101 ki a t\u0101tau e hui nei i t\u0113nei r\u0101, M\u0101ori mai, P\u0101keh\u0101 mai. Ka nui te mihi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker. Salutations to us all. My acknowledgments indeed to us assembled here today, M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori. I appreciate it greatly.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFirstly, can I start off by congratulating the Minister of Finance on working extremely well with the M\u0101ori Party leadership. It is sad that some will moan because they have got nothing. They have delivered nothing to the people of this country, and throughout this last year the M\u0101ori Party has been able to work constructively with the National Government. I am usually a humble man, as most people know. I am very humble\u2014I am very humble, but not today. I am ready to rumble today because the M\u0101ori Party has helped deliver some goodies to the people of this country. Marama Fox is like that\u2014very humble\u2014but just for today we are going to speak up. We are going to speak up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESince the M\u0101ori Party was created 11 years ago, wh\u0101nau have been at the forefront of our thinking. We have been dedicated to improving the lives of wh\u0101nau and to breaking the intergenerational neglect and poor policies of previous Governments, which have failed abysmally to improve the lives of our most vulnerable families. The M\u0101ori Party created history when it became the first political party in this country to call for a Ministerial Committee on Poverty. It brought into sharp focus the dire and complex issues raised by the most vulnerable families in our country, of which a fair, disproportionate number are M\u0101ori. I can say, too, that the M\u0101ori Party is extremely proud of the work that the Government has undertaken as a result of the recommendations from the Ministerial Committee on Poverty set up by the M\u0101ori Party\u2014and I pay tribute to the former leader of the M\u0101ori Party Tariana Turia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EToday the Government announced $790 million, which will reduce hardship among tamariki in greatest need\u2014$790 million. Why? Because the M\u0101ori Party rumbled up\u2014that is why. Today I say to Aotearoa: \u201CIt\u2019s OK. Don\u2019t thank us too much. The M\u0101ori Party rocked up and we delivered beside this Government.\u201D I want to put it all in a bit of context. Benefit rates for families with children will rise $25 a week, after tax, which is the first time since 1972 that core benefit rates have been increased by more than inflation. That is what we have done\u2014pulled it over. We pulled it over the line. These measures will support around half a million children\u2014half a million children. So it is a bit rich for some to rock up here and say: \u201CDo more for children.\u201D Hello\u2014you do more for children, and then you still get it wrong. There is something wrong there\u2014something seriously wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EMost of this country will be surprised, I think, that a National administration would offer increases to core benefit rates. I think the Prime Minister alluded to that. Here is the truth, though: National and Labour have held the Treasury benches for roughly an equal amount of time\u2014over about 43 years\u2014and neither of them have made any moves to increase benefit rates. So who made the difference? The M\u0101ori Party made the difference, that is who\u2014the M\u0101ori Party. The M\u0101ori Party made the difference. It has been through the work of my former co-leaders, Dr Pita Sharples and Tariana Turia, and my co-pilot here, Marama Fox\u2014the only MP who continues to be on the Ministerial Committee on Poverty and who has talked about nothing, nothing, except alleviating hardship and poverty. That equals $790 million, and that is how it came about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EToday the M\u0101ori Party has made history. It has taken 43 years\u2014nearly half a century\u2014for core benefits to rise. Who did it? The M\u0101ori Party did it, with some help from National. In addition to this hard-fought gain, the M\u0101ori Party has also secured about $100 million worth of funding for wh\u0101nau, whare, and whenua. What is that? That is families, that is housing, that is land. New operational funding\u2014$49.8 million over the next 4 years\u2014will support Wh\u0101nau Ora navigators to work with wh\u0101nau, aiga, and families. Do I hear \u201CAmen\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f250aed445a4ba587aa490cbd0ed3a9\u0022\u003EMarama Fox\u003C/span\u003E: Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b887c98516524affac4a2569a278d450\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, sister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ENavigators play a hugely important role in linking up wh\u0101nau with their vital services and information. The new funding will allow the continuation of current levels of navigators in Kaitoko Wh\u0101nau, and for \u014Cranga Wh\u0101nau workers to be maintained. [Interruption] Thank you, thank you. This is a 29 percent increase in the current funding for Wh\u0101nau Ora, and although this revolutionary approach of working with wh\u0101nau to help them find the solutions for themselves has been attacked by some Opposition MPs, the M\u0101ori Party and this Government have seen the outstanding results of Wh\u0101nau Ora. Mr Peters, you need to talk to your older sister. She knows what Wh\u0101nau Ora is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe Budget has also provided $2.1 million of new funding for research on rangatahi M\u0101ori suicide prevention. I have to say that too often I have seen the devastating effects of M\u0101ori suicide on wh\u0101nau. The M\u0101ori rate is about 22.5 times higher than the non-M\u0101ori. This fund will contribute towards taking a Wh\u0101nau Ora approach to reducing youth suicide. It will prevent youth suicide and will hopefully provide support for prevention workers who are working directly with rangatahi M\u0101ori in crisis situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EMoving to housing: housing is such a crucial and critical factor in breaking the cycles of poverty, dependency, and poor health outcomes for wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori. A new wh\u0101nau housing response fund will focus on addressing housing deprivation. A M\u0101ori housing network will be established to provide practical assistance to wh\u0101nau and to progress the housing aspirations of M\u0101ori. Budget 2015 provides an additional\u2014hold on\u2014$8.8 million per annum for M\u0101ori housing. What do I hear?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f65e2e5dcb5c4fc7947f761add1837ab\u0022\u003EMarama Fox\u003C/span\u003E: Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022699fb15eb1d840768ac638bcbb352fc0\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, sister. This is in addition to existing funding for M\u0101ori housing of around $7.5 million per annum, bringing the total amount to $16.2 million per annum in 2018-19. A new M\u0101ori network will provide an analytical role in implementing and evaluating He Whare \u0100huru He \u014Cranga T\u0101ngata\u2014the M\u0101ori housing strategy\u2014which sets out the Government\u2019s commitment to improving housing outcomes for M\u0101ori and to growing the M\u0101ori housing sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI move to whenua\u2014from whare to whenua; it makes sense. There is a new fund of $12.8 million over 4 years to help M\u0101ori landowners improve the utilisation of their land. It is also in this year\u2019s budget. What do I hear?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226184ab71e894fd69c7e5e05d0257c9a\u0022\u003EMarama Fox\u003C/span\u003E: Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022111257af7c9d4a2cadc416eec946520d\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, sister. The fund complements the current reform of Te Ture Whenua M\u0101ori Act. The issues that the fund will investigate are genuine, and I am talking about rates, valuation, and aggregation of small land blocks and landlocked land. It has got to be good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022299a60413613451c9484fac19ace94bf\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a703652118047c28c77ce74efd314e6\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: I will. Hold on, there is more. There is $3.2 million per annum in a fund that will support targeted initiatives in areas with significant underutilised land, such as in Northland, East Coast, Bay of Plenty, Manawat\u016B, and Whanganui. Help is on its way. Help is on its way. It will address longstanding issues that have generally inhibited M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi from releasing and realising the benefits of their land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAs a partner in this Government, we have been criticised for getting only the crumbs. That is a blatant lie\u2014a blatant lie. The M\u0101ori Party has had a real and profound impact on this Government, in the tangible gains we have made for wh\u0101nau. Over the last 7 years as a support party we have led initiatives to tackle poverty. They include Warm Up New Zealand, rheumatic fever prevention, free GP doctors visits, and the expansion of paid parental leave. I could go on, but I am a humble man; I will hold it back. The Opposition will argue that the merits and benefits increased today are pretty minimal. They get nothing. They have delivered nothing to this country. Why? Because they are in Opposition, and here we are at the table getting gains for our people. Today the M\u0101ori Party can, and will, take every bit of credit that comes its way. Why? Because we have done it. The M\u0101ori Party has done it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI close by saying that the Budget is a win for wh\u0101nau who work hard to bring up their tamariki with the necessities of life. It is a win for all of those who fight day in, day out to make the lives of our people better. It is time for this country to realise the huge and valuable contribution of the mighty M\u0101ori Party in this House. That is what we do: we look after the families and we look after the lives of our people\u2014not just M\u0101ori but all of this country. This Budget gets us on the move. We say: \u201CLet\u2019s get it on. Let\u2019s move it, and move it now.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u00226f7e863a40904f439a7ae84f2084e7d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f7e863a40904f439a7ae84f2084e7d0\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E Can I begin by congratulating my colleague to my right, Te Ururoa Flavell, on his impassioned address and on the contribution he makes to this Government. I must say also, in respect of David Seymour to my left, that the three support partners work remarkably closely together. We do not always agree on issues, but we take a common approach on a number of things and I find it a real pleasure working alongside these colleagues to achieve real gains for the people of New Zealand. And that is what this Budget is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons why the Budget is able to do the things it has been able to do is not part of the Budget at all. There was a reference in the speech from the Minister of Finance to the Prime Minister\u2019s 10 key result areas. They are a vital part of shaping the direction and the delivery of government and its services to the people, because for the first time\u2014this may sound strange to people\u2014the Government actually has clear measures of the impact of its policies. It sets objectives about what it wants to achieve in the justice sector or the education sector or the health sector, and then it is able to measure its expenditure and its policies against achievement in those areas. As a consequence of that, it is able to move out of areas where it is not making progress and into areas where greater gains can be achieved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons why in this Budget, for the first time since Sir John Marshall was Prime Minister, there has been a lift in basic benefit levels is the much more strategic approach and focus that the Government has been taking to the whole area of its expenditure. It used to be the situation\u2014I suspect we have heard it from some of the parties that have spoken earlier in this debate\u2014where government was all about dishing out the largesse and all about leading the charge and spending the money. In this environment, where this country is much more diverse and pluralistic, government is about working alongside communities, working alongside groups in communities, to achieve specific outcomes. Those outcomes may not always be achieved by direct intervention by the Government, but are part of outcomes achieved because of an overall sense of leadership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThat is where those 10 key result areas are so important. They give the Government the flexibility and the drive to be able to pursue objectives that were not thought possible some time ago. It used to be the mantra at every election since 1990 about restoring basic benefit levels. We have had a National Government since then, we have had a Labour Government, and now another National-led Government. And only now, nearly a quarter of a century later, has it been possible to restore levels not to where they were in 1990 but beyond that, and to make the first significant change in over 40 years. That is because the Government, for the first time, really has a clear understanding of the impact of its policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ESome 20-odd years ago, this Parliament passed a fiscal responsibility Act, which set the stage for the Government better monitoring its accounts, and it is no coincidence that fiscal performance has improved markedly since that time. In coalition with National in the mid-1990s, United Future proposed the complementary idea of a social responsibility Act, so that we could measure the impact of the Government\u2019s social policies and make changes accordingly. That proved far too difficult for officials to comprehend. I think the result areas are the next best thing to achieve that objective. So alongside fiscal responsibility we now have the Government much better able to measure and move in the areas of social responsibility as well. That is why you see the package in today\u2019s Budget. That is why you see the ongoing improvements in health and education at a time when Government finances are genuinely constrained and are likely to be for some time in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIt is almost a paradox that at a time when revenue is falling, when the Minister of Finance can give this House a warning that because of international conditions the revenue track may not be as strong in the foreseeable future, the Government, on the other hand, is able to make such significant social progress and still face the prospect of a surplus this year, burgeoning to a greater number in the years ahead. That is not beyond possibility. It is certainly the sort of thing people would not have dreamt was possible just a few short years ago. That is how the transformation has occurred, and that is the backdrop that makes this Budget, I think, such an important stepping stone for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI am delighted that as part of the Budget one of the smaller but significant infrastructural issues facing this country has been addressed, and that is the decision to rebuild the wharf at Waitangi on the Chatham Islands. The 600 Chatham Islanders identify as New Zealanders, they are New Zealanders, but they struggle sometimes to get their voices heard. The Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations and I have done a bit of work over the last year to get this wharf to the point where it can be renewed. It is a small step but for them it is a mighty one and will do a lot towards securing their future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIn the time that is remaining to me I want to address one issue that was mentioned in the Budget but is still unresolved, and that is the question of the Resource Management Act. I think this is a case of missed opportunity. For too long this Government, in my view, has tried to achieve its cake and eat it too, in terms of the changes it wants. It is not going to get support to change the principles of the Resource Management Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5b15ada1b484847b2819df9a898986d\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: Hear, hear!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a8cdc0d1d4a4fae8b500440c06e0454\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: But there is a significant mood right around the House, I think, for addressing a number of the process issues, and I say to the House that I suspect that there is sufficient momentum here that were the Government to come forward now and say that in the context of Auckland or whatever it wants to do we are going to focus on those changes, we could make substantial and real progress very quickly. But that point needs to be understood. It was September 2013 that the Government first announced its intentions in this regard. We are now nearly 2 years down the track and substantially no further ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThere is a way forward, and I am pleased to have the intervention from the member on the right of me, metaphorically speaking, that confirms the level of support for changing the Act in that way, because many of the complaints that New Zealanders have about the Resource Management Act are about its implications and about how it applies to them. They are not actually about changing the principles. In fact, everywhere I go, that is the one thing people say we cannot do, we must not touch. So I say to the Government that given the commitment in terms of the broad infrastructure package around housing alluded to in the Budget, it is time to forget those notions. It is time to actually start working on the changes that will improve and speed up the process under which the Act operates and get a majority in this House, which I think would be substantial, for driving those through to implementation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EWhat the Budget says at its heart is that the Government is getting its house in order in so many different areas. The Government is now looking to provide opportunities and challenges for New Zealanders, whether they be struggling families, whether they be families of school-aged children, or whether they be families in other situations. As a consequence of that challenge, it behoves us to make sure that, for its part, the Government is there to help. It used to be sort of a throwaway slogan: \u201CI\u2019m from the Government; I\u2019m here to help.\u201D I think it actually has some substance as a point these days, because the Government is not holding to the vain belief that it can do everything. It is really taking the view about its strategic role in a society and how that can best deliver assistance. So if I come back to my Resource Management Act example, that is a strategic approach it can take that will benefit people and that will achieve a large part of the objective that it has set for itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the work of the Minister of Finance. I think he is someone who has quite a deep vision about where he wants this country to head. It is not just a numbers game for him. He has a heart and a real sense of social commitment, and I think that comes through in many of the things that are part of this Budget and many of the assumptions that underlie it. Who would have thought that we would be standing in this House today seeing a National-led Government increase benefit rates? Who would have thought a little while ago that we would see in previous Budgets a National-led Government increasing health and education expenditure? The paradigm has shifted because this Government, under the leadership of the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance, understands that the nature and role of government in a modern society has also shifted. It is not the scorched earth free-market economics of the Thatcherite era, nor is it Big Brother socialism, which we used to see in the 1970s and 1960s and earlier; it is a new environment. This Government is smart enough to have adjusted to that. It has put out the challenges to New Zealanders, and the Budget today, I think, reflects a sense of real opportunity for people to advance and make progress. I am very pleased to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00227da740cf5f6a413f97f143d58a86ef41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227da740cf5f6a413f97f143d58a86ef41\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E What a debate. Could I also pay tribute to the fabulous speakers who went before me. I reiterate what Peter Dunne said. I greatly enjoy working with the other support parties. Kia ora, and thank you. I also would like to pay tribute to the Minister of Finance, following on from what Peter Dunne said. He is a man with a heart and with a vision, and he is changing the way the Government operates, from handing money out, here, there, and everywhere, to having the Government as an organisation focused on outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis Budget is an example of stable centre-right Government. In the Epsom electorate that is what we vote for. In the Epsom electorate we are quite comfortable with choosing the Government. The fact is that that is what we have done for two out of the last three elections. But that is also why Andrew Little\u2019s speech was so negative and so barren. You would think he was speaking in the Parliament of a sub-Saharan country. He had no policy, because he has waged a scorched earth policy on nearly every policy that his party had at the last election. Some of the members opposite should check\u2014there are so many of them away, they may well be having a spill as we speak. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI remember once upon a time when the Greens were a party focused on the environment. I think we saw very, very clearly today that that is no longer the case. It was not mentioned once in that speech. I always enjoy the speeches from the leader of New Zealand First. How fitting that he should be back with Split Enz in the 1980s\u2014a time when he himself showed great promise. Today he sits with a group of people who probably, up until today, thought that \u201CBudget\u201D was a brand at Countdown. Too bad; so sad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut there is one positive I would like to really emphasise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fd0bb523dd54303a2a3d5fb3816c25c\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: He won his seat. He doesn\u2019t need to be gifted one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cbde5b26a2a414da4e251fa3dacc263\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we have got him going now. There is one positive that I would really like to emphasise and that is the announcement in this Budget that there will be funding for two new partnership schools, kura hourua, as early as next year. This policy has been a litmus test for one of the darkest elements of our otherwise green and pleasant land: how we treat people who make tremendous sacrifices to go out alone, to swim upstream, to do something different to help the next generation of children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe sad thing is that the Opposition, some members of the educational sector, and some members of the press have shown us the darkest underbelly of our tall poppy culture. They have had a litany of false claims to try to knock down these heroic and innovative New Zealanders opening up new schools. They said the model failed overseas, until they were overwhelmed by evidence to the contrary everywhere else that this model has been tried. They said that the schools would skim the most able students. What we have discovered is that they have taken some of the students who were not even attending a school the previous year. I opened my maiden speech with a quote from one such student, who said to me: \u201CI never thought I was smart until I came here.\u201D Last I heard she was well on track for a university scholarship. That is what these educational innovators are doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut then the critics said that they would be under-resourced, and then they said they would be over-resourced. Once again we presented the evidence to comprehensively demonstrate that that was not the fact. What the facts are is that we are taking some of the most vulnerable New Zealand children and putting them into environments where they are engaged, where they learn, they get skills, which lead to qualifications, those qualifications lead to jobs, which will turn into careers, and ultimately allow those New Zealanders to feel good about themselves. That is what it is about. That is one of the ACT Party\u2019s answers to the difficulty of child poverty. Would not it be nice if, from time to time, some of those opponents, instead of showing us the darkest underbelly of the tall poppy syndrome, could actually be a little bit supportive. But I digress. I will take the time to salute some of those heroic New Zealanders in this movement\u2014Alwyn Poole, Nick Hyde, Sita Selupe, Raewyn T\u012Bpene, Catherine Isaac, Michael Jones, and even Willie Jackson. They have joined the movement for more choice in education for the most vulnerable New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe Opposition goes on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022769fcec89660469f81529611e346c82f\u0022\u003EMeka Whaitiri\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s the roll going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d587678517354ee3b090999325ef8a82\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: There we go again. There we go again\u2014nit-picking, the negatives. The fact is that all of the schools that have been open for more than 1 year are above their guaranteed minimum roll, except one, which is a primary school where children start throughout the year. Opposition members cannot handle the facts, but their negativity is bottomless. You should be ashamed. You should be supporting this initiative, instead of giving us bottomless nit-picking and negativity. Shame on you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe had many complaints in the lead-up to this Budget about whether or not the Government would make surplus. What an approach of short-termism\u2014an approach that unfortunately I have to say the Government has bought into somewhat as well. How many people remember whether the Government was in surplus 15 years ago? Well, I will tell you what people will remember about this Budget 15 years hence, and that is what superannuation is looking like. As people live longer, about 1 extra year per decade; as we go from five workers per retiree in 2006, down to two by 2060; when Government debt is forecast to approach 198 percent of GDP by the time current university students retire, people will be looking back at this Budget and asking whether we were prepared to look into the future and confront our challenges, or whether we kicked the can down the road for 1 more year. The solution, which some members around this House are keen to support, is to put it to the public to put up some options and let the public vote on the future of superannuation. If we can afford $26 million to do this for the flag, then we can afford to have a public referendum on fiscal sustainability and intergenerational fairness. If only the Green Party would also support that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe could have sent a message to business about the future of capital investment and productivity, instead of continuing to issue corporate welfare, which fundamentally assumes that people in Wellington know best how to allocate resources and deal in complex ventures. We could have reduced new spending allowances by 10 percent a year, and that would have allowed us to send a message to business, in a country where we have one of the highest effective tax rates on capital, so that every year, for the next 8 years, we will drop company tax rates one point, until we get to 20 percent and become competitive with where other countries, such as Scandinavian countries, are now in terms of company tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat about income tax? We have heard so much about people in poverty, and people bringing up children in poverty. How about sparing just a moment for the hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders who have saved, sacrificed, waited, delayed, and had children much later in life? What about relief for them? What we could have done, at a time when the Minister of Finance is complaining that there is so little extra revenue from fiscal drag, is we could have gone and indexed tax thresholds for income to inflation. What that would have done is it would have had a very small impact in the years to come, but as inflation resumes it would have reduced the tax burden on working families in the higher tax bracket and it would have made taxation more honest. Instead of stealthily taking $1,036 out of the average household in the last 4 years, the Government would have to be open and honest about its tax changes. None the less, we have not had that initiative today. We will have to hope for it in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut most fundamental is the Resource Management Act. The fact is that \u201Cinappropriate subdivision\u201D is a phrase that appears 156 times in the 900-page document that governs land use in New Zealand. It is good to discover that the Government is the largest land speculator in Auckland. It is good that the Government is releasing 430 hectares. But what about the other 270 million hectares of New Zealand, 0.7 percent of which have actually been built on and are deemed inappropriate subdivisions? What about unleashing some of that land? Unfortunately, I have to disagree with my friend and colleague Peter Dunne. That phrase appears three times in the principles sections 6 and 7. It is a small wonder that there is a shortage of land on which to build and that the housing affordability problem is real. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI would like to finish by thanking my National Party colleagues, particularly the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, and the wonderful Minister of Education, with whom it is a pleasure to work. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff1e9ea55c7244778e0d844cc83e89e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff1e9ea55c7244778e0d844cc83e89e3\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the debate be now adjourned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220eaa703acc5848b0b3fcec03e8ff6a20\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the debate be now adjourned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f6c8ec9311d4c7b86f828eceafaf37e\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a05f5c050a3a438aba63a338307424c4\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e486d1c3658c45feaa709f5e8d70a75c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e486d1c3658c45feaa709f5e8d70a75c\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the introduction and first reading of the Support for Children in Hardship Bill and its referral to a select committee; the introduction and passing of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill and any bills into which it may be divided; the introduction and passing of the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill; the introduction and passing of the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill; and the introduction and passing of the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill and any bills into which it may be divided. The Government is moving to take urgency on these bills because they are all part of a package of moves that has been signalled today in Budget 2015.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe Support for Children in Hardship Bill legislates for most of the changes that have been mentioned in the Budget. This bill will go to a select committee for consideration so that it can be effective from 1 April 2016. Also, it must be in effect by February 2016\u2014so we have got a short amount of time for a select committee to consider it\u2014to enable the 2016 annual adjustment to reflect those benefit rate increases stated today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill is urgent because the Ministry of Social Development needs to be able to purchase more social housing places. The bill allows for more flexible contracting with community housing providers, which the ministry needs in order to be able to enter into contracts to purchase 300 social housing places in Auckland as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill provides certainty to the telecommunications industry. It allows the Government to get on with rolling out the Rural Broadband Initiative extensions, which it cannot do until it has a legislative mandate and funding. The bill does not increase or change the operation of the levy; it simply extends the current levy amount out to later years. The intention to extend the levy has previously been well signalled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill proposes to remove the $1,000 KiwiSaver kick-start contribution paid to all new enrolees in the KiwiSaver scheme, effective from 2 p.m. today. Therefore, urgency is required to give effect to the proposal and to provide clarity to new enrolees in the KiwiSaver scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill is being introduced because demand for border clearance services is increasing due to the number of airline and cruise ship passengers arriving in and departing from New Zealand. This is expected to grow by some 3.5 percent annually for the foreseeable future, and we simply need to have the users of the services that we provide to protect our borders paying for them. This bill requires Customs and Excise Act and Biosecurity Act changes because they do not currently provide the facility to collect that levy. Urgency is necessary to allow for a period of consultation on the design post the passing of the bill, which is the process that needs to be used. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022134efc8ddc4940d38460a0deba121e96\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022847342e745af40388cb46e1a01f6aadd\u0022\u003ESupport for Children in Hardship Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022423ae1e54f8e4cf1a60c329ae3860895\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00229347c708c3a54c4d93005e839a5d8bc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229347c708c3a54c4d93005e839a5d8bc9\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Support for Children in Hardship Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Social Services Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported by 3 November 2015. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe Support for Children in Hardship Bill and the Budget package it supports represent the next step in this Government\u2019s strong and continuing programme to tackle material hardship for children in low-income families. Introducing this omnibus bill under urgency will allow the greatest possible time in select committee while ensuring the bill can be passed into law by the end of the year to be implemented from 1 April 2016. The bill amends the Social Security Act, inland revenue Acts, and the Education Act, delivering key components of this Government\u2019s $790 million Budget package. The provisions in the bill build on the firm foundations this Government has laid down by creating a strong economy that supports more jobs and higher incomes for working families, by setting clear targets for public services to address root causes of material hardship for children, and by continuing our welfare reform\u2019s unrelenting focus on work, ensuring those who are able do all they can to find work, helping themselves and their children get ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EWelfare reform is working. In 2010 we introduced part-time work obligations for parents on a benefit with a youngest child aged 6 or over. As sound management saw the economy strengthen and job opportunities grow, we extended this obligation to include beneficiaries with a child over 5 years of age. The results are clear. Since 2010 there has been a 19 percent drop in the number of people on sole parent support benefit. That means there are 16,500 fewer people on sole parent support, resulting in the lowest sole parent benefit numbers since the 1980s. This bill seeks to extend and accelerate those gains. It mirrors the growing and strengthening economy and labour market by expanding work obligations for beneficiary parents. From 1 April 2016 they will be required to start looking for part-time work when their youngest child is 3 and 4 years of age. This is a time in which both parents in the majority of two-parent families are in part or full-time work. Our expectation and aspiration for those on benefits should be the same. This will see another 18,000 beneficiary parents brought into the part-time work obligations group. This is where case management focused on work is the strongest and where additional resources have been provided through the Budget package. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EWe also know that there are important benefits for children attending high-quality early childhood education by 3 years of age, which is why this Government provides for 20 hours of early childhood education. Research shows us that children in more vulnerable families, including beneficiary households, have the most to gain. Alongside this change, the bill amends the definition of part-time work within the Social Security Act. Currently, part-time work is defined in the benefits system as being work that averages 15 hours per week. From 1 April 2016, this bill increases that to 20 hours per week. At 20 hours\u2019 part-time work, most beneficiary parents will be better off, and off benefits, thanks to a combination of earned income and increased tax credits. Increasing the part-time work obligation to 20 hours a week means a greater attachment to the workforce. In addition, most sole parents working 20 hours or more a week will be better off with a mixture of wages and Working for Families tax credits than they are on benefits. This is a strong incentive to leave the benefit altogether. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EFlexibility will be maintained regarding the exact hours of work, to take account of individual factors and particular job opportunities. We know, however, that the costs of childcare can lessen the rewards of employment for many low-income working parents, including beneficiaries moving into work. With this in mind, the Budget package introduces a new, higher rate of assistance for up to 50 hours a week of childcare or out-of-school care focused on helping the lowest-income working families. The significance of this change should not be underestimated. It is delivering an average gain of over $23 a week for each family. The childcare increase in the Budget package will be delivered by amendments to regulations rather than requiring amendments through this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ETurning now to benefit rates, on 1 April 2016 core benefit rates for each beneficiary household with dependent children will increase by $25 per week on top of the CPI increase that year. This is the first lift in core benefit rates since 1972 for beneficiaries with dependent children. This will deliver some of the rewards of a strong economy directly to New Zealand\u2019s lowest-income households and the 194,000 children within them. The bill amends the schedules of the Social Security Act that set out benefit rates, enacting the increase to core benefit rates for families with children on 1 April 2016 and, where necessary, creating specific rates for households with one or more children where none exist now. A similar increase will be made to allowances for students with dependent children, both to ensure that the children of low-income students share these gains and to reward students\u2019 efforts through study, rather than creating an incentive to move back on to a benefit. This increase to student allowances will also occur through regulations and will also be in addition to the consumer price increase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe core of the package and the bill is balancing more assistance and expectations for families with children while out of work, with increased financial support to enter and stay in employment. We know that working families with children can struggle, often as they enter work, and their combined incomes are low. That is why, with our childcare and tax credit changes, over $300 million within the package is focused on ensuring that work pays for low-income families with children and that their incomes lift, helping to ensure they can meet the needs of their children in a way we all expect to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ETax credit increases from 1 April 2016 for working families with children will provide $12.50 a week more in the base rate of the in-work tax credit, delivering that full gain to families earning $36,350 or less a year. It will also provide families earning more than $36,350 a year with an increase in their in-work tax credit, which could be less than $12.50 depending on their exact income, and provide an extra $12 a week to working families who earn less than $27,000 a year and are receiving the minimum family tax credit so that, combined with the in-work tax credit, these families\u2019 weekly incomes are increased by $24.50. Together, these changes will benefit over 203,000 low-income working families and their 383,000 children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ETo ensure that taxpayers\u2019 investment is well targeted to lower-income families, the bill at the same time increases the abatement rate for Working for Families payments by 1.25 percentage points and advances the timing of future changes to abatement rates and thresholds. A final provision in the bill, as with every other major benefit and tax credit change, provides a backstop that can cover exceptional circumstances and any unintended consequences due to the complexity of the tax and benefit system. Taken together, this bill and the Budget package it supports will mean that almost every low-income New Zealand family with children will be better off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EI commend the Support for Children in Hardship Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002284894c32ce0840d38c8d2f3e2dc92289\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284894c32ce0840d38c8d2f3e2dc92289\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E There are many reasons why various members of Parliament come into this place or enter into politics. Child poverty has always been one of my main motivations, and it is helpful, perhaps, in that regard, that child poverty is one of those issues that are man-made. If we are looking for an issue where the Government absolutely can make a difference, it is an issue like child poverty. But how to make that difference is the question that those who are interested in this area grapple with. Well, helpfully, the evidence\u2014the numbers; the whole picture that is built out of those statistics\u2014tells us exactly what we as politicians need to do. That is what makes this area so frustrating. There are 260,000 children in need, and we know exactly what we need to do to help them. I would liken it also, perhaps, to knowing where there might be a site of frequent car crashes\u2014where there are continual accidents because there is a blind spot. You go begging to the Government to fix the blind spot. Well, today the Government has put up a sign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ELet us be clear that any extra support that is going into the homes of vulnerable families is absolutely welcomed. This side of the House welcomes the fact that the Government has today\u2014in my mind, really, for the first time\u2014genuinely acknowledged that there is severe hardship and poverty in New Zealand. But now that it has acknowledged there is a problem, it has an absolute obligation and responsibility to do more, because that is what the evidence tells us we need to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe first thing we know from the numbers\u2014the measures of persistent poverty\u2014is that the longest period of time when hardship is experienced in a child\u2019s life is actually when that child is first born. That, we also know, is the most critical time of a child\u2019s life. Instinct will probably tell you that that hardship is most often going to be the situation of sole parents. It is harder for them to go to work because they are the sole caregiver, and that poverty generally lasts for 3 to 4 years, in those earliest years of that child\u2019s life. So, yes, giving those families an extra $25 a week is a good thing, but let us also be realistic. For a family with one child, $25 is great. What about families with two children or three children? That payment is per family, not per child. This is the point the Children\u2019s Commissioner was right to make. It is, ultimately, roughly enough for a large pack of nappies for a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIn the Labour Party, we looked at the evidence too. That is why, when we developed the Best Start package, we thought that we needed to give those families $60 a week, that we needed to give that per child, and that we needed to make sure it lasted for at least the first 3 years of that child\u2019s life. That was what Best Start absolutely did. It was targeted, but it was more generous. That is what the evidence absolutely told us to do. In the Labour Party, we also recognised that that is one part of the picture. The second part of the picture is that there are families in poverty who are working. This Government has said persistently that the way to get out of poverty is to get into work. If only that were true, but that is not what our economy is delivering for New Zealand families. Two out of five families living in poverty are in work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ENot all work is born equal in New Zealand. Not all work is decent work. Not all work means that families are free from the burden of poverty, and that is why we absolutely needed a Government today that acknowledged that\u2014that looked at the evidence from the Growing Up in New Zealand report, which said that some families are working multiple jobs just to survive. In part, this bill potentially exacerbates that problem. Yes, the Government is giving a bit of extra support in welfare for families, but it is also placing extra work obligations on parents of children\u2014no longer at the age of 5, but at the age of 3. That does not acknowledge the reality for many of our sole parent caregivers. Finding a job is one thing, but we must point out that in this Budget there is nothing about creating work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E Last year 41 percent of jobs in New Zealand were created by whom? Small businesses. They get nothing in this Budget. If you want to help families to find work, then help the people who create the jobs that they move into. Finding jobs is one thing, but making sure that those jobs are paying decently is another. Also, making sure that the hours that you find in those part-time jobs fit in with your early childhood education care is another question entirely. Part-time work is often at hours that are not family and child - friendly. Again, we need to be realistic about the kind of environment that these parents are going to be operating in. Labour has serious reservations about this element of the bill, and this is exactly what we will be looking at in the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIt is also about the bigger picture. The evidence has always said that to tackle child poverty, you need a plan. In the wake of this Budget, the Children\u2019s Commissioner has today said that this extra payment, although good, does not constitute a plan. A genuine plan that really wants to fix child poverty would make housing affordable. We know it is a fact that some families are using 50 percent of their income just to make sure that they have a roof over their heads, and sometimes that roof is damp and it is cold and it is crowded. If we are genuinely addressing child poverty, we need to make sure that housing is affordable and available to those families. That should have been part of the plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe need to make sure that health care is genuinely accessible. Some of these families are experiencing such dire circumstances that even though it might be free for their child to go to the doctor, the parent who is meant to take them has debt at their local clinic and so does not go because they know that they will not be able to get an appointment before paying their debt. I have heard of stories of families who have lost their jobs and whose kids have contracted scabies. Although they have managed to go and get the treatment for them, they cannot even afford the hot water that is required to do the hot-water wash to rid the family of that affliction. Poverty is a vicious cycle, and it never affects just one part of a family\u2019s life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe would also be making sure, if we had a genuine plan, that we address the hidden costs of education and make it accessible. Labour was committed, and remains committed, to a full whole-of-Government plan. We have a bill in the ballot called the Child Poverty Reduction and Eradication Bill. It is all about making sure that the Ministers for housing, education, health, social development, and finance all have responsibility for a package that deals with child poverty. For us, Best Start\u2014that $566 million package\u2014was only one part of the picture, and for this Government, this bill should be only one part of the picture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOne extra thing: on child poverty, a critical difference between us and this Government is that we are willing to put in place the target. We are willing to put a number to how much we are committed to reducing child poverty by. Why has that Government not done it? I know, from having done numbers for ourselves, how hard it is to genuinely lift a family out of poverty, and this measure today will not do it. It just will not, and we will report on how much we do on that target in every single Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI leave my final words for the place where this all started for me. I talk a lot about having spent a few years as a child living in a town called Murupara. The people in Murupara who found themselves in hardship found themselves in that place, ultimately, because their region and their town were dependent on forestry. In the 1980s that industry was absolutely gutted for them. That was what ultimately drove the poverty in that town. A measure like this today will not solve that problem for the people of a town like Murupara. We need, ultimately, an economy that works for everyone and that gives people hope. Today the Government acknowledged that we have a problem, but, sadly, it did not fix it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u0022a231f1d2d0854441b1f0031914fef508\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a231f1d2d0854441b1f0031914fef508\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the Support for Children in Hardship Bill in its first reading. As the chair, I look forward to the bill coming to the Social Services Committee, a very hard-working committee that looks forward to the debate, to the deliberation, and also to hearing the submissions. It is always good to speak after the member Miss Ardern. She commented about the blind spot in regard to poverty and the intention coming to this House. I remember in the 2014 elections at one of the debates around poverty, she was challenged about the fact that 142,000 children were still in poverty during the time of the Labour Government. Her response was this: \u201CIt was a job unfinished.\u201D\u2014it was a job unfinished. So although the talk is about children in poverty, there was a job that was unfinished by the Labour Government, which talked about that. When talking about figures, it is interesting that those members are talking about that now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe issue about a plan\u2014this is a plan. As the Minister of Finance said, this is a plan that is working for our children in hardship and for our families as well. How do we know? Well, we can talk about ours\u2014and I will in a moment\u2014but in its state of the nation speech, A Mountain All Can Climb, out of the 22 indicators, the Salvation Army gave us the thumbs up on 14 of them. I just recall, at a glance, that with regard to child poverty, it was thumbs up for reducing it by 2 percent. With regard to children at risk, there was a reduction of 15 percent. I could go on. There were 15 indicators by the Salvation Army with regard to the reduction of child poverty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EAs this bill comes to the House, I say it is a good bill. Can I commend the Minister for Social Development, the honourable Minister Tolley, for the work that she has done to put this together. Can I also acknowledge our previous Minister for Social Development, the honourable Minister Paula Bennett, who is here as well, for the work that she has done and for the leadership that she has taken for us as well. It was great to hear from the Hon Te Ururoa Flavell, and this is what he said. He said that it has taken almost 43 years\u2014in fact, back to 1972\u2014since the base benefit rate was actually increased. Under a National Government, that is what has happened. What is it doing? It is doing this. As the Minister has said, there is a vision and a plan for reducing hardship for children, and that is what this bill is intending to do. It has a theme that I think is really important. It is this: your circumstances should not define your destiny. I think that is very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EPart of the amendments in this bill, which is an omnibus bill, are around the Social Security Act of 1964. If I quote from the Act, in Part 1, which is its purpose and intent, there is section 1A(a)(ii). It indicates that the purpose of the Social Security Act of 1964 is \u201Cto help people to find or retain paid employment;\u201D. Section 1A(ca) says it is \u201Cto provide services to encourage and help young persons to move to education, training, and employment \u2026\u201D. I mention these because I think it is important for the public to know that the bill at hand is in line with the intentions, the purpose, and the principles of the Social Security Act, which are to provide opportunities for employment for those who are actually in need, as well. We know that employment lifts our families out of hardship. We think that is important. The bill is a balanced mix of greater work expectations. Two-thirds of children are living in hardship and we think that that is important\u201480,000 are in sole parent families, hence the reason why this bill is focused on that. We know that nine to 10 of those children are from sole parent families, and we think that that is important as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESo we think that this bill will go to the select committee. We look forward to the submissions. The benefit rates, we think, are going to be quite important news to our communities. Can I finally just conclude my remarks briefly, because I think this bill is due for its reading and its referral to the select committee, by saying that the comments that are made about children in poverty are often made about M\u0101ori and Pacific children. It concerns me that in our communities, a stigma is created by the Opposition about that when there is all the talk, there is all the rhetoric, but there is not the plan to be able to make a difference. I believe that this bill and its intentions will absolutely make a difference to those families that we are talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1fffacb22084f658b744e31a134f0c1\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Now, you\u2019re just not telling the truth, Alfred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ca64b167469457f97f5ebbdfe5ca324\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: I look forward to this bill. I look forward to the debate, even if Ms Ardern returns to the Social Services Committee as well. I think that this is going to be good news for our communities. I look forward to the discussions and the submissions, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00223f6aed948be1462abb08ecdddf58831e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f6aed948be1462abb08ecdddf58831e\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour\u2014Kelston):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to start by talking to some of the points made by the former speaker, Alfred Ngaro. No one at all\u2014at all\u2014on this side of the House today has referred to, or stigmatised, M\u0101ori and Pacific with regard to poverty. It was he who decided to bring that up. In fact, we are talking about children in poverty more widely. It does not matter what ethnicity they are. We are talking about children in poverty and the obligation and the responsibility that we have here, not just the Government but the entire Parliament, to make sure that we are responding to the needs of children in poverty. Even just looking at the title of this bill, the Support for Children in Hardship Bill, I cannot help but say we all need to remember that these children come from households with caregivers who are also experiencing hardship. When we talk about supporting these children, we do need to be talking about how we can support the people who are looking after them to take them out of hardship. We, of course, support any measure that will put money into the pockets of New Zealanders experiencing hardship\u2014New Zealanders who are our most vulnerable. However, this bill does come with conditions that could have repercussions and those are the repercussions that I want to talk about today. Those are the things we need to think about and consider as we look to push this bill through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ELabour is concerned about the implementation of the proposed work obligations on parents. It is not that we do not support parents going out into the workforce. It is not that we do not think that it is a good thing for parents to be out in the workforce. It is just that when you are saying to parents that no longer is it that when their children are 5 years old they have to go and look for part-time work, it is at 3 years old, then there are repercussions. We have heard widely in the media lately that there are real issues with things like accessibility to quality childcare arrangements, accessibility to quality early childhood education. Unfortunately, many of the areas where we have people living in hardship are the areas where those people have less access to quality early childhood education. When you put these parents in the position of having to, being forced to, go out to work when their child is only 3, then you are also forcing them, possibly, to put their children into substandard childcare arrangements, into centres that they are not comfortable with, into centres that they are not sure about the quality of, and that is something that we should be concerned about. No parent should be forced to put their child into an early childcare centre if they are not sure about the quality that will be provided there to that child. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe support that will be required for these particular parents, particularly sole parents, to actually get into the part-time work that will suit their circumstances is quite immense. These parents need part-time work that fits within particular hours because of the childcare arrangements that they have. They may have an older child who goes to school from 9 to 3. They may want to fit it into that time frame\u2014it makes sense. They may need flexibility, more flexibility in their work, because of the fact that we know that the younger the child\u2014any parent knows this\u2014the more likely they are to get sick, particularly when they are going to early childcare centres. Things just tend to float around. So they are going to need work that will give them that flexibility. They are going to need work that will, hopefully, be secure and give them the money that will ensure that they are actually going out of hardship. But what really concerns me is that here we have this move to push sole parents out into work, increasing the obligations around work, but at the same time what we see in this Budget is an actual $91 million cut to the job seeker budget. So here we have higher expectations on these parents, but then a cut to the support that they will be getting from the State to actually get into the work that they are required to take up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI can only presume that the $91 million cut to jobseeker support, which is in this Budget, is because that Government thinks that the total number of beneficiaries is going down. But we have seen research around the future of work, around the increasing issues we are going to have for security in work, around the changes in the nature of jobs that are out there, and the fact is that, actually, we may see more and more people going in and out of employment because of the changing nature of work. So to cut $91 million from the job seeker budget when the Government is extending the obligations on sole parents around working, as well as the fact that we know that moving forward there are real issues with regard to the future of work and the security of work, is actually a little bit negligent, I think, of that Government. To say that work is important, to continually rattle off the importance of work for beneficiaries, but to cut $91 million from the job seeker budget is a little bit irresponsible of that Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe support the idea that an additional $25 will be going into the pockets of beneficiaries every week. It is not a lot of money to many people here in this House, but to beneficiaries it will make a little bit of a difference. But we do need to refer back to the policy that we had, leading into the last election, where we actually had committed to putting in an additional $60 into the pockets of beneficiaries with children under the age of 3. That would have made much more of a difference. As my colleague Jacinda has said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220aff74605bd04d0090ee078c870f9a36\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b4adc383acb47c49194e16ccfe9bd74\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the $25 extra that these beneficiaries will be receiving will actually not even come close to taking them out of poverty. When Government members talk about addressing the hardship, when they talk about addressing the poverty, we actually need to see, as the Children\u2019s Commissioner has said, a real plan, not just a few sticky plasters. This is really what it is. It is not even a packet of sticky plasters. It is one sticky plaster that is going to come off the scab and then there is nothing to replace it and nothing is actually better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe acknowledge, and are very glad with, the Government\u2019s announcement that National has finally acknowledged that Working for Families lifts incomes, and it has continued with Labour\u2019s sensible economic policy. What did they call it at the time? When we introduced Working for Families, when we were in Government, National referred to it as\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0caeb38df10402e85f79090c560ae40\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Communism by stealth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022952142f5abc149d5b3742d7b68e65f3c\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Communism by stealth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022413fe02bc76d4e49a6807b11f06a218c\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: John Key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e5099c6ff0c428882bdc121480611cd\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: John Key himself referred to Working for Families as communism by stealth. So it is heartening to know that eventually National has come round to the fact that it is Labour\u2019s policies that are responsible, that are effective, and that actually are all about good economic management of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI just want to refer back to the fact that we are talking about parents being obligated to go out to work. So they will be required to put their children into early childhood education from the age of 3 so that they can take up that part-time work. I just want to say that when it comes to early childhood education, when it comes to the arrangements around supporting sole parents, it was Labour before the last election that proposed extending the subsidy for early childhood education to 25 hours a week. It was Labour that wanted to extend the provisions around parental leave. It was Labour that wanted to introduce a $60 a week Best Start payment for children under the age of 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESo I do want to acknowledge that, yes, it is a surprise, as the Children\u2019s Commissioner has said, that National has done this, that it has decided that $25 extra a week for a beneficiary is a good thing, but, as the Children\u2019s Commissioner said, this is a surprise but it is not a plan. As my colleague Jacinda has said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284449a78869446179eb9ef05339eab6c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249d7433405cd4c0aa91cc5b15ffec888\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Jacinda Ardern has said\u2014this will not effectively address the issue that we face of child poverty. It will not necessarily address the issues that the 260,000 children who are living in poverty in New Zealand are faced with every day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe will be supporting this bill. We have reservations about this bill, particularly with regard to the obligations on sole parents to go out to work\u2014not work in general but just the extension of the work obligations\u2014but because of the fact that it does put a little bit more money into the pockets of beneficiaries, we will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00229ef42fbd73214b9da945ad52fc49aaac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ef42fbd73214b9da945ad52fc49aaac\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great honour to rise and support the first reading of the Support for Children in Hardship Bill. As a first-term member of Parliament and hearing my first Budget, it was one of those moments where time just seemed to stop. There was plenty of time to soak in all the news and all the information. I think today will be a definitive point over the next year, over the next 2 years, and over the next 3 years. What I mean by that is that this Budget has proved that the National Party is the working people\u2019s party. We are out there working for the people of New Zealand, but we are listening to the people of New Zealand. Why I know that we are the working people\u2019s party is that we have created over 194,000 jobs since 2011, and we will go on to create tens of thousands more. That is important for this bill because we know that job creation reduces child poverty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThe Budget announced a $790 million child hardship package. Working families who earn less than $27,000 will get a $24.50 increase to their Working for Families payment every week. That is 4,000 families. This National Government is the working people\u2019s party. Families earning $27,000 to $36,350 will get a $12.50 increase to their Working for Families payment. That is 50,000 families in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhen I campaigned last year I met many people who were voting National for the first time. They had voted for Labour all their life but they knew that we were working for New Zealanders and we were listening to New Zealanders. We are delivering better jobs and better incomes. They said to us to support the most vulnerable. That is why for beneficiary families\u2014how much time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aa20c82fa964cb789c57f50f45ec0ae\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: Keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022209fc82100394ceda233b0de5cd73907\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: We are increasing the benefit by $25 every week. That is 110,000 families. I know that when we look back, we will know that we have worked hard for the working people of New Zealand and we have listened to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI am proud of this National Government, which is working hard for the working people of New Zealand. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022968853b2804f4dcc83b300fc2ac4c4be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022968853b2804f4dcc83b300fc2ac4c4be\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to start my speech on this bill by paying tribute to sole-parent families on a benefit who are struggling to do the best for their children, who are parenting alone 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and who are struggling to be able to put food on the table and feed their children. I acknowledge their children, all too many of whom do not have a bed of their, who do not have enough to eat, who are surviving on sandwiches because some days that is all that is left in the budget at the end of the week, who do not get Christmas presents or birthday presents because there is not enough money in the family budget to be able to pay for them, and who cannot afford schools trips. I really want to acknowledge those children. I want to acknowledge the New Zealanders who have been fighting for years and who have been raising their hearts to the Government to stand up to change this situation. The well-being of our children is the soul of our country. When our children are suffering, we are suffering as a country. So I want to acknowledge that fight and all those people who have forced the Government into this measure, which is the first time that benefit rates have been increased since 1972.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe Greens have been raising issues of child poverty for over a decade now. We are passionate about changing this reality because we know it is possible. Although we are hearing from the Government that this is the first time since 1972 that benefit rates have been increased, the Government is admitting the fact that it cut the benefits in 1990 and that we are still not even returning, with this increase, to the level they were at in 1990. For most families, this $25 is not actually $25, because this $25 will be eroded by cuts to the accommodation supplement and the temporary additional assistance supplement, which many families are using just to get by. So the $25\u2014which is the cost of, say, nappies for one child\u2014is not even going to be that much extra in the hand for all too many of our families. So when you think of those children who are going without shoes, who are going out without raincoats, who are going without school trips, and who are going without birthday presents and enough food to eat, we know that this is not the answer. The Greens will support this bill because it is something. Those children need something, but they deserve a whole lot more than this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI also really just want to raise a very real concern that we have with this bill. It is another example of the Government giving with one hand and taking with the other. What this bill will do is require parents with children who are just 3 years old to go out and look for 20 hours a week of work. Sole parents, who are doing the job of caring for their family alone, are now going to be expected to be working for a minimum of 20 hours a week as well as providing for the needs of their children. We know that that may actually mean a reduction in their incomes because of the abatement on the benefits. It will work out to, I think, about $2.20 an hour extra, if they are getting $15 an hour in those jobs. We know most of those jobs, sadly, are at very minimum wages. That is, actually, probably not going to cover the cost of travel, childcare, or the clothes that are expected to be worn in that job\u2014let alone the extra needs of those children, to compensate for not having their parent there. I really want to say that although we are hearing a lot in the House about how we expect you to work if you can work, the Green Party believes that caring for young children and children with complex needs is work. It is something that we value and that we believe will pay off in the long term for the entire society if we support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAs a society, we have no concept yet of what the consequences are going to be in 20 years\u2019 time of a generation of adults, as they will be by that stage, who have not had time with their parents, who have been in the care of strangers for so many hours a week, and whose parents have lost out on the opportunity to participate in Playcentre, k\u014Dhanga reo, or other family-centred childcare movements that have provided so much to our communities and so much in terms of growing knowledge around parenting for those families and our children. We have no concept yet of what the consequence will be of separating parents from their children, as these kinds of policies are doing. I think it really, really requires from this House and from the public some deep thought about this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe Green Party will certainly not be supporting this bill past the select committee stage unless this changes, because our children deserve at least one parent who is able to be there for them in those early years. They deserve that ability for attachment and security. Again, as is my wont, I will remind this House that the indications are that of sole parents, 70 percent are probably leaving violent relationships. Think of the needs of those children and that woman\u2014typically\u2014to resettle themselves, to recover, to actually bed in and get well and move on in their lives, and think about whether that is actually possible while they are juggling the care of their children and working 20 hours a week. I would say, from my experience of working with women in that situation, that for many of them it is not possible, and the needs of their children will suffer. That will put many women in a situation of feeling as if they are conflicted enough to go back into a relationship that is not safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis bill raises many, many concerns for us, as a party and as a House. Also, I really want to mention that while we are being told the Budget will also offer increases to Working for Families, it is a little bit more complicated than that, in that the change to the abatement rate without changing the abatement threshold will result in a family with one partner working being worse off than they currently are if their annual income exceeds $36,406, or if they are getting $17.50 an hour. An extra 2c-per-hour income for those people will eat up the entire $12.50 increase in the base rate for the in-work tax credit component of Working for Families. With incomes still well below a living wage, those people will actually be worse off under this proposed Working for Families regime. So we are being told by this Government that it has suddenly got the message, that everyone\u2019s lobbying around the welfare of our children has got through\u2014that the Government has got it! It is making this change to Working for Families, but, in actual fact, it is such a marginal change, and within that change some families are actually going to be worse off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI am pleased that this bill is not passing through all stages under urgency, because there certainly seems to be enough in here that we need to look at really closely. To conclude, I really want to go back to the fact that we have over a quarter of a million children living in poverty in this country\u2014between 60,000 and 100,000 without decent shoes, without enough to eat, without Christmas or birthday presents, or without warm clothes or a bed of their own. Those children need us to fix this problem, and, sadly, this bill will not fix this problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u002283cd96db0663458480abfa0591cc27e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283cd96db0663458480abfa0591cc27e7\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise on behalf of New Zealand First to address this bill. We will be opposing the bill for a couple of very good reasons. Before I get into the reasons why, I would like to go back to the actual speech that the Minister of Finance gave today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EDelivering Better Public Services: put aside, for a second, the actual Public Service targets that this Government has, which it established in 2008, which have never been independently reviewed, and which I have asked both Minister Tolley and the Minister of Finance about having reviewed and have been refused. Put that aside. There is a quotation here from a speech given earlier today, which I would like to share. I think it gives a definite perspective to the priority that this Government has. It goes like this: \u201CWe\u2019re willing to pay a bit more upfront to get real, sustainable change, and in doing so we can generate significant long-term savings for the Crown.\u201D In the same sentence, in the same breath, we have Mr English purporting that the intent of his bill is to have some real, sustainable change for the future, but in the same breath he is mentioning the long-term savings for the Crown. And that set up the theme of his speech today, under delivering Better Public Services for this country. Because in every single sentence he said, in every single paragraph, the Budget was about cost-cutting, it was about saving, it was about dressing up the real needs and the real changes that need to happen to solve child poverty\u2014one of the major priorities that he said the Government was going to have\u2014into cost-cutting measures and long-term savings for the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI would also like to give a little bit of perspective to this bill and to the speech that Mr English gave today by using a little bit of a measuring stick. In regard to the child hardship package, which recognises lower-income working parents, the total package is around $240 million in each full year. The measuring stick that I would like to use is the flag referendum, which will cost just under $30 million. That is more than 10 percent of the total that this package is going to cost each year. Where is the priority of this Government? He goes on to say that the Budget also provides a new operating fund of $36 million. We have got a flag referendum of just under $30 million: where is the priority of this Government in dealing seriously with child hardship? We have new funding for the existing Children\u2019s Team that he was talking about. It gives an extra $23 million. That is even less than what is going towards the flag referendum. So where is the priority that Mr English purported he had for solving child poverty, for giving more to the needy in our country? New Zealand First says that it evaporated as soon as he opened his mouth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe questions that came out of both the bill and the speech that was delivered today were, first of all: why have these changes occurred? Was it because there was a need for them to occur? Was it because the Government can now afford for them to occur? Or was it because the Government really has no choice but to make those changes now? What rolls out of that is: why has it taken 7 years in Government for these changes to occur? Increasing the minimum benefit levels is a step in the right direction, as we have heard from a couple of my colleagues in the House already. But the step that has been taken\u2014is it enough? Of course, it is not. New Zealand First believes that there should be a minimum social floor that no one should fall below. It should not be a reward. It should not be a punishment. That is what is happening at the moment. That is what this Government delivered in the Budget speech today. The benefit should be a safety net. It should be strong, it should have integrity, and it should have the ability to not allow people to slip through and live in poverty. That is what is happening right now, and that is what will happen even after these Budget changes occur. The Government has the absolute responsibility to not allow supported poverty to occur. That is what has been happening, and that is why it will continue to happen with this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe Minister also talked about investment in the front end, and I would like to quote: \u201CWe\u2019re willing to pay\u201D\u2014like I said before\u2014\u201Ca bit more upfront to get real, sustainable change\u201D. But what this is is plugging the gap. We have heard about a plaster over a wound, but this is plugging a gap with the minimum amount of financial assistance. This is addressing the symptoms; it is not addressing the causes. New Zealand First believes that the major priority should be investing in the front end, before individuals need to end up being caught by that safety net. The priorities should be investing in our youth and our young people, especially unemployed youth and young people. That is the front-end investment. The KiwiSaver kick-start contribution is an example of front-end investment, and that is now gone. Job creation for our young people is front-end investment, and that is now gone. What we have here is a carrot-and-stick approach from this Government. It is quite simple: the number of unemployed youth is at one of the highest levels that we have had. It is steady and has not changed over the last 7 years that the National Party has been in Government. Unemployed youth will become unemployed adults. And as the Minister himself said today, two-thirds of all children in material hardship are living with a parent on a benefit. That is the end result. That is the symptom. So why is this Government concentrating on the end symptom and not the cause, and not on investing in the real front end of this issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI would also just like to mention Working for Families and families earning $36,000 a year. Low-income working families earning $36,000 a year, before tax, will get $12.50 a week extra, but what does that mean in real terms? It is just over a 1 percent increase. If we compare that, for example, with the cost of fruit and vegies, that cost has increased by 5 percent in just the last 12 months. Again, where is the priority of this Government? The restrictions that are being put in place for people on benefits are cost-saving measures dressed up as help and encouragement. With the sole parent restrictions, sole parents are, in fact, the group that is getting positive results right now. They have the highest number of exits off that benefit and the lowest number of entries. What the Government wants to do is make the sole parent benefit like the job seeker benefit. But the job seekers group has one of the worst results. Where is the logic in that? Carmel Sepuloni mentioned the impact of parents having to go back to work when their child is 3 years old and not 5 years old. Let us take a step back for a second and forget about whether that is the right or the wrong thing to do, and let us ask what the social impact is for that child. What is the social cost for that child of the parent leaving the house when the child is 3 years old instead of 5 years old? Once the Government answers that question, it will also see the priority that it has when dealing with child poverty and with the needy and the vulnerable in our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EAs I said, the increase in the benefit is part of the solution; it is not a plan and it is not the answer. I am looking forward to discussing this bill robustly in the Social Services Committee, but at this stage, New Zealand First cannot support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u002218c88d81be9a448c9715567e34281e73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218c88d81be9a448c9715567e34281e73\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E What a privilege to be able to stand to speak this evening to the Support for Children in Hardship Bill, which gives effect to the hardship package that we announced this afternoon. Listening to the attack from the other side\u2014I will tell you, earlier today when Bill English was giving that Budget speech, you could really see from the back of the House the impact that it was having, not only on this side but particularly on the other side. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EYesterday the Leader of the Opposition referenced my name in a speech and said I was \u201CMooller\u201D\u2014Todd \u201CMooller\u201D. Well, it is actually Todd \u201CMuller\u201D. It rhymes with \u201Cmuller\u201D as in \u201Cmullet\u201D, and the people who looked like stunned mullets as we were outlining a once-in-a-generational change were those on the other side of the House. It has been 43 years since benefits have risen, and it is this side of the House\u2014it is this Government\u2014that has made\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224590a7e785e54d1b87b42b225f0b329d\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Looked more like a dead fish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243374f45bf7f4c5bab75bfa6c39ffe26\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am sure you will turn up with two dead fish next week, Mr Parker. It will happen. But, seriously, we have seen quite an afternoon here, and what a tremendous bill to be able to stand up and talk to this afternoon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWhat a change that we can talk to. The first rise in 43 years\u2014$25 a week for those with families on benefits and, immediately, it gets ridiculed by the other side. It is significant money and it talks of a Government that cares, and when the Government is in a position to respond to the needs of New Zealand, it does. We were handed an absolute cot-case of an economy. It has taken 6 years to get to this position, and now we are in that position to respond to the needs of New Zealanders. That is exactly what we have done, and that is the reaction we are getting. The Opposition members know it, from the reaction that is going on outside. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThis is a very, very good bill. It is great to be able to talk to it\u2014194,000 jobs since 2011. The reason I say that is important is it means there are 42,000 fewer children living in welfare-dependent homes. We are making a difference and, therefore, we can put a package like this in place to encourage those who are still yet to make that journey to be able to do it. We will stand beside them and make sure that in their hour of need we are there. We are running an economy that enables them to move from welfare to work. This Government is working, we have a plan that is working, and I cannot wait to support this bill through the various stages of the select committee. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u0022b19972aab822401daf1d6a6e13fe9179\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b19972aab822401daf1d6a6e13fe9179\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is always interesting to reflect on wealthy people\u2019s understanding of poverty. There is a tone that I think possibly comes from greed dependency. We hear a lot about benefit dependency but we do not acknowledge greed dependency in our country, and it is quite a problem. We will be supporting this bill in its first reading to the select committee because of the 25 bucks, because we cannot deprive people of that, but there is still a misunderstanding of the issue when the scale of the problem is so much greater than the supposed plan and the supposed solution. I would rather not talk about mullets or anything else today; I would like to talk about the kids. Today is in some ways a victory for the amazing group effort out there in the community to make child poverty such an important issue that the Government was unable to deny it. I would like to pay tribute to people like the Child Poverty Action Group, Every Child Counts, the New Zealand Council of Social Services, Unicef, and many more, and the Green Party, for our leadership through Metiria Turei\u2019s unfailing and absolutely determined commitment to make child poverty an issue that this Government could not afford to ignore in this Budget because the focus groups told it that it could not afford it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ESo before we get all warm-hearted about the caring Government, let us just acknowledge that this campaign has achieved a small step. The step that has been achieved, which is really important tonight, is an acknowledgment that income matters. I have sat in this House for the last 6\u00BD years hearing how poverty has got nothing to do with money; it is all about individuals not pulling up their own bootstraps, it is all about the failure of the education system and teachers, and it is all about people not grabbing opportunity. Anybody who has worked at the front line of inequality in this country knows that income is critical. The Government has been forced to give 25 bucks more a week after 43 years. I am not the world\u2019s greatest mathematician but anyone can tell that that is not going to be enough after 43 years of Governments failing to lift the benefit. But we are not going to look this tiny little gift-pony in the mouth because, actually, any money in the hands of families right now is good. They need it but it is not a solution. So we would like to just acknowledge that it is not a solution; it is a tiny little step. The solutions have to be much more structural and much more generous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EIf we can afford the nauseating tax cuts of several Budgets ago for the wealthiest people, we could actually afford to extend the in-work tax credit to the families who really need it. That would be a generous move. That would be a structural move. Instead of that we have got giving on one hand and taking from the other. On the one hand there is this extra money; on the other hand there is an increased obligation. An increased obligation is always a euphemism for going down to Work and Income for another ritual of humiliation. Those of us who have worked as beneficiary advocates are under no illusions about that experience. It is worse for the people who actually have to do it, but we have witnessed it, and what we have seen is desperate families, including many solo parents, particularly women-led families, being told they are failures and that they will be sanctioned if they do not get work. In this bill they now have to have 20 hours\u2019 work a week. No amount of description of the obligation as \u201COh, we\u2019ll be flexible about this.\u201D cuts any ice. We can sit in this House and use that language but go down to Work and Income and witness what actually happens when families with no money are forced into social obligation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ELet me talk about early childhood education. The Green Party has demonstrated, just by reading the officials\u2019 briefing documents, that participation in early childhood education is not sufficient; it is quality. But now we are going to make parents with a 3-year-old look for more work while the children must be in early childhood education of whatever quality. Until we commit to the family-centred models that my colleague talked about, like k\u014Dhanga, playcentre, and kindergarten, which are losing families all the time, we are going to be putting kids into some good services and some utterly indifferent ones. If we do not listen to the Brainwave Trust about what is important to the child in its first few years, if we will not listen to the child experts, if we will not listen to the Children\u2019s Commissioner, if we will not listen to Jonathan Boston, who said today, reading the bill, that actually a number of the measures of poverty are failed under this bill and that the $25 will not make a difference\u2014if we will not listen to those people because we are so inside our privileged little bubble of \u201CWe\u2019ve done a nice thing today.\u201D then we are failing the kids of this country. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u00222122e9a3488045cd8755c28f9e675a7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222122e9a3488045cd8755c28f9e675a7e\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Support for Children in Hardship Bill because something is better than nothing. Still, I think, in this context, we can see once again just how little value this National Government puts on parenting. I think that this bill, more than any other bill, really demonstrates this. Work, in the Government\u2019s view, is not the very important and valuable work of raising children. That is seen as being not nearly as valuable as, maybe, a zero-hour contract for 20 hours a week. Let us be honest: for anyone who really knows, or who is in touch with, what is going on out in the community, these types of provisions, where people who are in receipt of a benefit are forced out to work\u2014and this bill forces them to go out and seek part-time jobs from the time that their child is 3 years old\u2014are driving a sort of employment market that, actually, most New Zealanders are embarrassed and ashamed about. It is forcing the type of labour market that sees the growth of zero-hour contracts and that sees the growth of our low-wage economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI come from Hamilton, and the sort of growth in jobs that we are seeing in Hamilton is that a new Wendy\u2019s or a new Carl\u2019s Jr has gone up\u2014at the same time, scientists are being made redundant from Ruakura Research Centre. So we are getting rid of our high-value jobs and we are getting these minimum wage, zero-hour contract - type jobs. And these are exactly the sorts of jobs that the Government is now forcing parents into when many of these parents have made the decision that they would rather spend the time\u2014or that they need to spend their time\u2014with their young children. This bill does not make any differentiation for parents in receipt of a benefit who are raising children with disabilities or with special needs. They, too, when their child is the age of 3 years, need to go out and pound the streets and look for zero-hour contract work, up to\u2014now\u201420 hours. I am not sure why the Government, when it required 15 hours of part-time work before, now suddenly thinks that this can just leap to 20 hours\u2019 work without it doing anything to grow jobs in our economy\u2014because that is the other area where this Budget fails miserably.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIt is of some merit that the Government has increased benefits for families with children by $25 a week, but\u2014and here is the but\u2014it is a bit of a swings and roundabouts thing, because it is requiring these same parents to go out and seek these part-time jobs when their child turns 3 years old. They are going to have to pay more than $25 a week in childcare fees to enable them to do that. So there is the $25\u2014and some\u2014gone straightaway. So I think that although it is always good to see families with children get some more support from the Budget, in this instance, I think that we will find that this money disappears very quickly. It will evaporate with the other mean approaches that this Government is taking to cut spending in various areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI am speaking on this bill because I am Labour\u2019s spokesperson on women\u2019s affairs, and this Budget will have quite a severe impact on women and their role in parenting. I just want to make sure that the House notes that although the $25 a week in this bill is good\u2014and we certainly support that\u2014we have some real concerns about some of the other measures. At the same time, the Ministry for Women has taken a budget cut in this Budget. It has a tiny little budget to start off with, and there it is: women, again, not being taken seriously by this Government and having their hopes, dreams, and aspirations dashed by a miserable approach from this Government. Labour supports this bill but we think it does not go nearly far enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u002271308b4dcdc445058fd13116d97a8a73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271308b4dcdc445058fd13116d97a8a73\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E For the last 12 months, since I announced that I was going to run for the National Party, I have been approached by a lot of people asking: \u201CWhy would you be doing that? Why would someone with a degree in social work be joining the National Party? Why would you get involved?\u201D. After today\u2019s Budget, I do not think I will be getting those questions any more. Today, in this Budget, this Government has raised\u2014has raised\u2014for the first time in 43 years, the real bottom-line benefits for people with families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5e1d828311c4d548da49014f0b1b6a6\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: How many years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c7cce312e7842b0bc2cfeb6b4e54faf\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: 43 years. The question we have to ask is: why now? I have heard that asked from across the other side of the House today: \u201CWhy now?\u201D. Well, I can tell you why now. It is because we have been able to grow the economy over recent times. We have been able to grow the minimum wage\u2014we have been able to grow the gap between wages and what people are earning on benefits\u2014to such a level that we can now raise benefits without disincentivising people to go to work. That is what happens when you have got a Minister of Finance who understands families and who understands how an economy works: you can have a Government that is working hard to ensure that all of these pieces of the jigsaw fit together to make a country that works hard and that is delivering the kinds of outcomes that New Zealanders want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EWe find ourselves now in a position where families who are struggling, those who are on low incomes\u2014and we all know that there are families who are struggling in our communities\u2014will get more money in their pockets through an increase in Working for Families. And those who are unable to work at the moment will see a greater amount of money go into their bank accounts each week to enable them to start to lift themselves out of the place that they find themselves in. That is why I am supporting this bill, that is why I am glad to hear others in this House are supporting this bill, and I look forward to discussing it with the select committee and to bringing it back to this House so that we can continue to make good progress for families in New Zealand. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022622bc762617f46caac5f827792550e9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022622bc762617f46caac5f827792550e9d\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E This is the Government\u2019s seventh Budget. It promised a surplus some 6 years ago, and we have not seen it. More important, we are sitting here, after the Budget has been read, debating benefits not jobs. We would be debating jobs if National were doing its job, and it is not. What we know is: given that the Government said the rock star economy would benefit far more New Zealanders in the regions, we should be debating jobs here today, but we are debating benefits. I wish we were debating the \u201CChild Opportunity Bill\u201D, and that the recognition of poverty in this country meant that we would be talking about more than just $25. We would be talking about warm homes. We would be talking about jobs in our regions, communities, and small towns. We would be talking about how to support those children who are the most vulnerable learners, instead of supporting charter schools. We would be talking about how we could support children and parents who have multiple vulnerabilities and want a hand up, not a handout. This is an \u201COliver Twist Budget\u201D and we are debating $25 more going to vulnerable children. Well, we will take it. We will take it, but do not expect anybody on this side of the House to say \u201CThank you very much.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022472b49d694fa4ad9a4fafb8673b0cbd5\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Ah!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022663991bde325467a90996f80ce8647cb\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: Why? Because it does not fix the multiple issues facing vulnerable families and poor families out there in the community. Chris Bishop sighs. Chris Bishop sighs because he would prefer this side of the House to say thank you. In fact, the Children\u2019s Commissioner puts it far better than I could. Dr Russell Wills himself said: \u201CI wasn\u2019t expecting Government to increase incomes for \u2026 children. \u2026 Let\u2019s be clear, a one-off increase is not a plan for child poverty. \u2026 What we need is a comprehensive plan to reduce child poverty.\u201D That comes from the Children\u2019s Commissioner. He himself recognises that an isolated payment of $25 cannot fix all the issues. But we will take it, and we will take it because we know the hardships that are faced by many children and families in the community, in small towns, and we know that they need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EBut will it make a difference? I suspect not if we require parents to be work tested when their youngest child is 3 years old. Let me share a story. We are talking about a mother who goes to k\u014Dhanga and who volunteers her time because she is worried about the type of life her child will have and she knows that getting an education will make a difference. She has to be work tested when her child turns 3. She could make a critical difference to supporting the education pathway of her under-5-year-old child if she were able to continue to be the mother that she wants to be. The bill makes a number of other changes. We will get it to the select committee so that we can identify these types of issues, which will, I think, start to unstitch some of the challenges of how to implement it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe other thing about the bill is that it really does not address some of the aspects that are really fundamental to work. In these days and times for people who are required to be work tested\u2014when there are no new jobs in towns and communities, and when people have to make changes to go to where there is work and they have to pay for childcare because they have got no support network of family to be able to help them raise their children\u2014$25 will not make much of a difference. That is the reality\u2014that is the reality. In fact, I heard a constituent say \u201CI want to be work tested because I want a job, but, God, it\u2019s demoralising. I go in there for my regular appointments and I have to answer the same questions and go through the same types of box-ticking tests.\u201D She said to me: \u201CIt\u2019s just demoralising. Give me anything. Give me a meaningful job, because I want to be able to support my children and give them more.\u201D But the jobs are just not there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ESue and I are both from the Waikato. We understand the realities of what is not happening in the region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022add3841e6f934d06a8158ffa9b16557a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Sue Moroney.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238be3b3f905845818486b47474b09437\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: Sue Moroney. Sorry to my fellow colleague. We are both from the Waikato. We understand the realities. In our area, there have been more job cuts than jobs created, and the types of jobs that people are having to consider are the jobs that do not really give them certainty. This is the challenge. With the 90-day bill, being employed for 3 months is not a full-time job; it is just living from hand to mouth\u2014hand to mouth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThis bill should go to a select committee. I am pleased that it is going there, because there are aspects of the bill that need to be looked at further to ensure that what is intended will actually make a critical difference to the lives of people. Just yesterday I was one of several MPs who were out on the steps of Parliament receiving a petition from ActionStation. I want to thank ActionStation for its efforts. It is a collective of organisations committed to putting child poverty on the agenda. It identified that far more needs to be done and that the Government needs a plan. This is an area in which those 260,000 children living in poverty will increase unless we do something meaningful and comprehensive over a long period of time. We do not want to see that happen in a country like New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIt is very important that people understand the parts of this bill that the Government is trying to implement. The other aspect is being work-ready and work tested for part-time work. I think about this provision in relation to childcare provisions and the practicalities that exist in small communities. It will be very difficult if a person has childcare provisions in the place where they live\u2014say 26 kilometres out of their main city centre\u2014and has to travel 26 kilometres for their part-time work. It will be very difficult to make those provisions fit with childcare and their preschool arrangements. I know. I live in a small town. I have tried to find those types of arrangements. But, more important, for people who do not have a natural family support network where they live, this is going to be an impractical type of measure, about which I think we will see many people express some concern. At the end of the day, I think if we want to support families and children, especially those who are the most vulnerable, the changes need to be able to fit them, as well as ensure that they are given a hand up and not a handout.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThere are simply not enough afterschool childcare opportunities. For example, when an early childhood centre or a k\u014Dhanga finishes at 3 o\u2019clock, in some small towns you will not get early childhood centres that can take them from 3 p.m. to 5.30 p.m. In some communities, that it is just not the reality. And where there is the opportunity to have that, you have to pay a lot of money\u2014more than $25. Those are some of the practical aspects of what the Government is intending to do\u2014that is, work test people to go into part-time work\u2014and the reality of having children who need preschool education and then afterschool care. These are some really important things that the Government needs to be mindful of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWe are not going to knock the bill to the extent that $25 will not make a difference, but the issue for me is whether it will make a critical difference. I suspect not. It is a change. It is an increase. There is no doubt about that. But when you look at the real costs of childcare, the real costs to someone who has no car of their own and is using public transport to get to a job, $25 will not cover much more than an extra bit of bread and some milk, hopefully\u2014and they are still going to have to think about other pressures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe challenge as well, when we talk about vulnerable families\u2014families with more than one child\u2014is that you are doubling up on the cost of shoes, especially in winter, of warm clothes, and of kai. If we are really true to what we are hearing in the community, there are already significant cost of living pressures on families who are paying a heck of a lot\u2014a heck of a lot\u2014in private rentals. Twenty-five dollars is something, but will it make a vital difference? I suspect not. I do not want to look a gift-horse in the mouth and say \u201CPooh, pooh!\u201D all the way through. It is pleasing to see that some effort has gone into recognising that child poverty exists; the extent of which, I challenge the Government, should not be minimised by the piecemeal approach that it is taking here today. I look forward to hearing the deliberations of the select committee and to identifying how, in fact, in terms of the implementation of the bill, it will make a difference to the lives of needy children. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022115b746ece4342dc902af7f0ffe28ba7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022115b746ece4342dc902af7f0ffe28ba7\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E I feel so proud to be a part of this Government, led by the Rt Hon John Key. I would like to congratulate our Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, the Hon Bill English, on keeping New Zealand on track for such solid economic growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIt is a pleasure to take this call to support the Support for Children in Hardship Bill in its first reading. This National Government has been, and is always, focused on delivering for families and children, because we understand their needs. We also understand the importance of a strong economy, because we know that it is this strong economy, under this National Government, that is allowing us to commit this package to help children in hardship. New Zealand families also understand the importance of a strong economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThis Budget allocates $790 million in this package, which is aimed to help children in hardship\u2014some of those children who are in New Zealand\u2019s poorest families. Yes, there is this additional support being provided to these children raised in these households, but at the same time we want to support families to get out from welfare dependency. We want to break that cycle of welfare dependency because we know that work is the pathway to success in life. That is why we want to get more and more people into work as soon as possible. Moving to paid work is the best way to lift more families out of poverty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EAlthough an increase in benefit rates will help address the concern about children whose family\u2019s resources have been falling behind those of other households, over many years, if we compare families dependent on benefits versus families getting into work, it is clear that the financial circumstances of families dependent on benefits do not change much over time, whereas the circumstances of families who get into work do change over time. We know that in the past year 74,000 more people are in work and the average wage has gone up by 2.1 percent, whereas inflation is negligible at 0.1 percent. National is focused on sustainable growth, which is needed to support more jobs and higher incomes. I support the bill and commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002275f828759e834c5aa4683b4c4184a948\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Support for Children in Hardship Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 12\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000529\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Social Services Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u00224d48d21ed8924fc684bdfc199cac2a99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d48d21ed8924fc684bdfc199cac2a99\u0022\u003EHon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (Minister of Corrections) on behalf of the Minister for Social Development:\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Support for Children in Hardship Bill be reported to the House by 3 November 2015.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002292825434d6c44486a09375d6df77a4cb\u0022\u003ESocial Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec0b9740f49847c6ae63e004028a56cf\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022024b83e76e4c410cad886ecff71ce16b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022024b83e76e4c410cad886ecff71ce16b\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill be now read a first time. This Government has embarked on an ambitious programme to improve social housing and support more vulnerable New Zealanders. This bill will allow the Government to build on the crucial initiatives announced in the social housing reform programme to increase the supply of social housing and support more people in suitable housing that meets their needs while they need it. The Government will spend more than $700 million this year on the income-related rent subsidy, and that will increase by $154 million over the next 3 years. The number of social housing places available increases from about 62,000 currently to 65,000 by 2018. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThis bill does four things. The first and most important of these is the introduction of the ministerial direction power to allow the Minister of Housing, in consultation with other housing Ministers, to authorise the Ministry of Social Development to enter into tailored agreements to purchase social housing places. Currently social housing is paid for via the income-related rent subsidy. Income-related rent is paid by the tenant and is no more than 25 percent of their income, while the second component, the income-related rent subsidy, is paid by the Ministry of Social Development and makes up the difference between the market rent and the income-related rent. The Ministry of Social Development is not able to negotiate prices or tailor contracts in any other way that allows social housing provision to be looked at differently and incentivises providers to enter the market. That is stopping the growth of community providers and means tenants are not always getting the best services. This bill retains the income-related rent payment in the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters Act so that providers who want to continue with income-related rent subsidy payments can do so. But it also allows the Ministry of Social Development to enter into tailored agreements so that the terms, conditions, and price can be negotiated to promote better social housing outcomes and attract organisations into social housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ETo be clear, nothing in this bill will change tenants\u2019 eligibility for the income-related rent subsidies or how much they will have to pay in rent. What it does do is allow the Ministry of Social Development to explore other arrangements, such as long-term fixed-price tenancies that meet the needs of the Crown, provider, and tenants. Longer-term contracts assure that when a provider has a place available, this place will be offered to a person on the social housing register. Providers would have the certainty of a contract with the Government\u2014that they will be paid to house a certain number of people over a certain length of time, and they can still be paid for properties when they are vacant for short periods before tenants. This means that if they are looking to finance construction or buy properties, they have the guarantee of an income stream that they can use to borrow against. Providers have asked for this certainty so that they can make long-term investment decisions. This will increase the supply of social housing and see more local organisations investing in homes for their communities. Long-term contracts will also guarantee the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s supply so that it knows it can place tenants with providers as their properties become available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ETailored agreements will allow the Government to pay more or less for certain tenants depending on their level of need. Pricing for these sorts of arrangements should be able to focus on the actual costs of supporting people, not just some pre-prescribed formula; it will be the ability to negotiate these kinds of deals that can help get the right providers who offer the best services and quality housing for different cohorts of people. For example, the Ministry of Social Development may want to enter into an agreement with a provider who specialises in people with disabilities. It will be able to pay more for the extra services that these people might need. This bill is being passed through all stages under urgency so that we can help the community housing sector to increase the supply of social housing places, particularly in Auckland, as soon as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EIn December the Ministry of Social Development released a registration of interest to providers who are interested in supplying 300 social housing places in Auckland. There was a large response, with 19 community housing providers taking part. Their feedback was clear: that they need more flexibility in contracting to provide more places in Auckland. This bill will allow them to do that. This is an opportunity for the Ministry of Social Development to relieve pressure on the social housing register and engage further with the community housing sector about the different types of contracting arrangements it needs. Tailored agreements are not restricted to just community housing providers. Housing New Zealand is the largest player in the market, and tailored agreements will be available to it as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe legislation also makes three minor amendments to other bills. It ensures that payments for residential social housing provision under these agreements are GST-exempt, consistent with the current treatment of residential rental payments. It clarifies that Housing New Zealand is no longer required to provide policy advice to Ministers. This role has been undertaken by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment and its predecessor, the Department of Building and Housing, since 2011. Minor amendments are being made to first-home withdrawal rules in the KiwiSaver Act. These ensure that any prior period of membership in a complying superannuation fund should count towards a 3-year eligibility period when the member transfers to KiwiSaver. This means that more KiwiSaver members have access to their savings to assist with the purchase of a first home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThis bill is a major step in the Government\u2019s social housing reforms and enables the Ministry of Social Development to be a smarter purchaser of social housing. We are backing tenants by creating a social housing sector that can house more people in housing that suits their needs, provide essential support services, and assist them back to housing independence where appropriate. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebf52b8e4d9749149be7686805e4d586\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebf52b8e4d9749149be7686805e4d586\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party is trying to brand this Budget as a Budget of compassionate conservatism. What gives the lie to that particular piece of double-speak is that the very first piece of legislation they are trying to ram through the House after this Budget is legislation that, basically, is designed to help them flog off State houses to their developer mates, in a fire sale and at knock-down prices. It is the big pay-off. It is the big payback. Actually, it is not compassionate conservatism at all; it is Cabinet club conservatism. That is what this is about: flicking off State houses to their developer mates at knock-down prices, breaking up communities, and throwing State house tenants out on to the street. That is the hallmark of this National Government and of what it is doing to State housing in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe bill is all about flexible purchasing. It is so flexible that it is all about giving the Minister the flexibility to do sweetheart deals with property developers, because the Government is desperate to sell off State houses to anybody who will take them. They know that our most respected social agency, the Salvation Army, looked at this policy and said that it would not improve the lives of tenants. The Salvation Army ruled itself out. It said: \u201CWe do not want to have a bar of it.\u201D, and so did the Methodist Mission. Bill English was forced to concede that only by flogging off these houses to property developers would they achieve their ambition of divesting thousands of State houses, worth billions of dollars, off the Government books. This Government has been a bystander for the last 6 years, while the housing crisis has been getting worse and worse. House prices in Auckland have gone up 87 percent in the last 6 years. The average house price has gone up by over $100,000 in the last 12 months. We have got families living in cars and garages, and yet the Prime Minister is deep in denial. He says that there is no housing crisis. He says that there is no risk of a bust. Things are all fine in Parnell, apparently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders desperately wanted the Government, in this Budget, to finally do something about the housing crisis. That is what people wanted, and they have been cruelly let down today, even though all the evidence suggests that for the past few weeks, since the Governor of the Reserve Bank gave the Government a bollocking in this Parliament for its failure to do anything about the housing crisis, it has been in a poll-driven panic to try to come up with things that will make it look as if it is doing something about the housing crisis. We have seen its half-hearted measure to target property speculators, which, based on Treasury analysis, will be lucky if it nets a thousand speculators a year and brings in $18 million a year. It will not make a blind bit of difference to the rampant property speculation in Auckland. Today the Government announced a very good scheme to use vacant Government land in Auckland to build housing on, but it was an idea that was developed\u2014and the study for it done\u2014in 2008 by the Helen Clark Labour Government. The National Government has been sitting on its hands for 6 years. It has done nothing with the idea, while the housing crisis has been getting worse and worse. But in a panic before this Budget, it dusted it off and presented it as if it were a new idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe biggest con job of all of the failed policies, the photo opportunities, and the deception that is this Government\u2019s housing policy is its State house sell-off. In the middle of a housing crisis, when we have a spike in visible homelessness and in people living on the streets and in caravan parks all over the country, only the National Party would think it was a good idea to sell off the houses that it already owns. It tried to dress it up for months by saying that the Salvation Army was going to buy those houses, but the Salvation Army has ruled that out. Bill English does not care who the Government sells these houses to. He said that. He does not care who it sells them to; he just wants to get rid of them. This bill is about making it easier for the Minister to sell off those houses and to put in place sweetheart deals that will allow someone\u2014anyone\u2014to take these houses off the Government\u2019s hands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ELet us look at what has happened to Housing New Zealand under this Government. It has stripped Housing New Zealand of its powers and its functions, and it has given them to Work and Income. What was once a full-service social housing agency has been reduced to the equivalent of a Government-owned Barfoot and Thompson. It is now simply a letting agency, and this legislation is the final nail in the coffin. This Government has been selling off State houses all over the country without telling anybody. In the past year it has sold 50 houses in Whanganui, at an average of 33 percent below the Government valuation, blatantly undermining property values in that town and flogging off publicly-owned assets below their market value. That is an absolute shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis Government has milked $500 million in dividends off Housing New Zealand in the past 6 years. Half a billion dollars\u2014it has used it as a cash cow to prop up its fictional surplus, which never arrives. It has tightened the eligibility criteria so tightly that even people who are in acute need and acute poverty cannot get on the waiting list. It has subjected hundreds of vulnerable tenants, including the elderly, disabled, and families with young children, to the needless stress and anxiety of tenancy reviews\u2014fearful that they will be thrown out on the street by Paula Bennett. The Government has closed offices, sacked tenancy managers, and forced tenants to use an 0800 number. This bill now strips away the last functions that Housing New Zealand has. It is no longer allowed even to give the Government advice on social housing\u2014that function has been taken away. Housing New Zealand is no longer allowed to do research and it is no longer allowed to evaluate the work that the Government does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EState housing has a proud history in this country. It is how we make sure in New Zealand that every child growing up in this country at least gets a decent roof over their heads, no matter how much mum and dad may be struggling financially. It is how we make sure in New Zealand that every kid gets a decent start in life. That is why the taxpayer subsidised John Key and his mother to have a State house in Christchurch in the 1960s. The security of the roof over their heads gave the Prime Minister a good start in life. Paula Bennett benefited from the same generosity of taxpayers. Now the two of them\u2014the worst hypocrites this House has ever seen\u2014are willing to strip away and dismantle the very system of social support that gave those Ministers their start in life. Paula Bennett is happy to pull the ladder up. She and John Key are happy to deny a generation of young New Zealanders the same opportunities that they had in life. They do not care\u2014they do not care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EJust imagine a young John Key in today\u2019s generation, sitting on a suitcase on the side of the road in some suburb in some city in New Zealand, thrown out of the house that he and his mother called home. He is worried, night is falling, and he has no idea where he is going to sleep the night and no idea where they will call home. That is the reality for families all over this country. That homelessness has been made worse by the policies of this Government and by their utter failure to do anything meaningful about the housing crisis. The worst cut of all is that in the middle of a housing crisis and a housing shortage Minister Paula Bennett is dismantling the system of support that provides decent housing to the 4 percent\u2014the most vulnerable people and the most vulnerable families in our country. What an absolute scandal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ESelling off State houses, breaking up Housing New Zealand and dishing out the bits to charities, reducing Housing New Zealand to being no more than a publicly-owned letting agency, and moving to a system of direct subsidies for landlords\u2014that is what Bill English and Paula Bennett want to do. Their agenda here is dressed up in lots of nice words: \u201CWe want to grow the community housing sector. We\u2019re stepping up with wraparound services. It\u2019s all about the tenants.\u201D It is not about the tenants at all. Because do you know what? We asked Paula Bennett, under the Official Information Act, what evidence she had for the policy of privatising State housing and for shifting that responsibility to non-governmental housing providers, and you know what she said? She said: \u201CThere\u2019s no evidence.\u201D There were no documents. The Government had nothing to say. There is no evidential basis for this policy, but that Minister is happy to preside over the dismemberment and the dismantling of Housing New Zealand\u2014the very organisation that puts a decent roof over the heads of the most vulnerable families in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00227710a80b715a40349c267ec3e84152b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227710a80b715a40349c267ec3e84152b6\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member but his time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00226a84815ae6a341098f78bb59e018a99d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a84815ae6a341098f78bb59e018a99d\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great honour to rise and speak to this first reading of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. I would just like to acknowledge the hard-working Hon Paula Bennett and all the work she has done as the Minister for Social Housing. I must say, as a new MP, it is an honour and a privilege to be part of this National Government today, which has delivered. We are working hard for New Zealanders and listening to New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to provide flexibility. It is right that we provide flexibility because in the care sector it is now a mixed economy of care. What I mean by that is it is no longer solely State provision. It is about the Government provision, it is about private provision, but it is also about community organisation provision as well. So it is right that we provide flexibility in a mixed economy of care. This bill is important as we negotiate and contract with social housing providers because it is about providing the right house to the right person in the right location at the right time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EIt reminds me of some statistics I read at the start of this year about Housing New Zealand stock. It was interesting that when we looked at demand for one-bedroom houses, the demand was around 25 percent but the actual supply was only 9 percent\u201425 percent demand and 9 percent supply. Then you look at three-bedroom houses\u201424 percent demand yet 43 percent supply. That clearly evidences how we end up in this situation where we have one or two people living in three or four-bedroom houses. So it is right that we move to a flexible model that will provide people with the right housing at the right time in the right place in the right location.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI know from my own experience\u2014I worked in the United Kingdom in the social housing sector, managing a specialist intervention team for people with needs in social housing. These people can have learning difficulties, mental health issues, possibly physical disabilities, they might need education and training, employment help, and budgeting help. It is right that this bill will allow for and enable them to get wraparound services. What we know is that if people are put at the centre of their care, their personalised care, it enables them to become independent. We want people to go on and have independence in their housing. Not only do they become independent, but their self-esteem grows, their confidence grows, and they go on to be productive members of society. I am very happy to support this bill, and commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002281571d34a29e4561967cb6f753e87f33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281571d34a29e4561967cb6f753e87f33\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I may have misheard the Minister when she started her speech this evening, but it sounded to me like she said that the Government has started on a vicious programme of reforms. I thought: \u201CShe\u2019s right\u2014she\u2019s absolutely right.\u201D She is not denying it, so I presume that is exactly what she said when she opened her speech on this new piece of legislation tonight. A vicious programme of reforms\u2014that is what we have seen in Housing New Zealand under this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWhat we have seen in the last 7 years in housing policy has been a series of ideological burps. In other words, nothing but a lot of hot air and gas, wrapped up in the biased and unbalanced philosophy of the National Party. The greatest exponents of this ideological burping are Dr Nick Smith and Paula Bennett. The latter, Paula Bennett, is the architect of this latest iteration of dopey policy. That is what this policy is. This bill is another piece of National Party tripe. It is meant to give the Minister the flexibility to negotiate contracts with organisations that purchase State houses. What it is is code for the great State house sell-off Mark II. It is a continuation of an attack on State homes in New Zealand, the sell-off of them by this National Party, and the breaking of a solemn promise made before the last election that there would be no more asset sales. There can be no bigger asset for an individual in New Zealand than the home that they live in. This Government is prepared to sell off thousands and thousands of State houses, and the Government says it is not an asset sale. The Government says it is not a broken promise. Well, I would say there is a name for that, but perhaps I will not use it today. That was a solemn promise\u2014no more asset sales. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThis is part of the continuation of selling assets in this country. It has followed a pattern. What this Government has done to soften up the people of New Zealand, those who perhaps are not in State houses, is to, first of all, remove people from the State houses. You saw that\u2014those of you who come from the Hawke\u2019s Bay. You need only to go into Flaxmere and places like that. The Government cleaned the people out of the State houses. It left them empty. Then the Government would say \u201CNobody wants to live in those houses.\u201D, even though there were people who could not get a house and were on a waiting list\u2014and the houses were empty. The Government said that no one wants to live in those houses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThen it says that these houses must be in the wrong place and the wrong size, because nobody wants to live in them. The Government lets them stay empty. They lie empty, and then the vandals come along and break the windows and graffiti the walls. The Government says it gets complaints about the security of these properties and the cost of this security. Then the Government says that there is a great necessity to sell them off, because we do not need these houses any more. It is a pattern. It is a pattern that we have seen many times over. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ENow we have got, as I said, the great State house sell-off. They were all going to be sold to those very willing community groups. The poster people of this great State house sell-off were the Salvation Army. According to Bill English, the Salvation Army was going to take all these houses. Well, I have met with the Salvation Army and so have many others in this House, and I have to say they were played as fools. They did not know the real effort that was going into this. They did not know the real agenda. When the Salvation Army people went away and did their figures and looked at their books, they said: \u201CThere is no way we can buy these houses. We will be in debt for 10 years if we buy these houses. We cannot do it.\u201D But we were told that the Salvation Army was a very willing buyer of community housing. Backbenchers might not know that. Go out and talk to your Salvation Army. Speak to those who run the Salvation Army. They will tell you the truth. You were sold a pup by the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister\u2014you were sold a pup, because the Government does not have any intention to provide houses, to buy up houses for community housing in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThen I had a look at the regulatory impact statement that goes with this bill. There are a number of questions. I always read these with interest because they usually tell you a little bit about what goes on in policy making. The regulatory statement asks the questions: \u201CAre there any publicly available inquiry, review or evaluation reports that have informed, or are relevant to, the policy to be given effect by this Bill?\u201D. What would you think the answer to that would be? Do you think there has been any evaluation of this policy? What will be the effect on people? Would you expect the Government to know that, before it brought some legislation into this House, to pass through every stage tonight, without the scrutiny of a select committee? Would you not want to know that before you did it? Well, what does the regulatory impact statement say? \u201CNo\u201D\u2014there has been no evaluation report to inform or is relevant to the policy. So we are going blind into this. We have no idea what the outcome is going to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThen we are asked: \u201CWere any regulatory impact statements provided to inform the policy decisions that led to this bill?\u201D. We were told the Ministry used the regulatory impact statement that was done in March, and that was before the community housing groups knew what the real story was and before the Salvation Army pulled out of this whole approach. It also asks: \u201Cdid the [regulatory impact] team in the Treasury provide an independent opinion on the quality of any of these regulatory impact statements?\u201D. What would you think the answer to that would be, to the members opposite? We are passing the bill through all stages tonight. We are going to put it into legislation without any scrutiny, other than what is happening now. Did Treasury have a look at this? Did Treasury provide any independent opinion on the quality of this? The answer to that is no. It has not happened. Why do we not learn? There is no need to rush this bill through tonight. What is the urgency in passing this legislation tonight, without the scrutiny, the impact, and the input from New Zealanders on this bill? So Treasury has not had anything to say on this bill either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EHas any further analysis become available since this policy has been given effect by this bill? What do you think the answer to that would be? It is another big, fat no. I think the members opposite who are going to speak on this bill might want to go and pick up the regulatory impact statement and then ask questions of your Minister. Backbenchers are so pleased and proud to praise her, but maybe they might want to ask a few questions as to why this bill has not had the scrutiny I believe it deserves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThen I want to know, and maybe the Minister will answer this when we get to the Committee stage\u2014she is going to have the power under this legislation to make delegated legislation with ministerial direction. That does not come to the House either. All she has to do is gazette it, and present a copy to this House, having done some consultation. I want to know why the extension of this power is going to be needed, Minister. Why is this going to be needed when we know there already exists in the Act powers that you can use? I would like an answer to that question, when the Minister gets into the chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe then get to what has really been happening to Housing New Zealand and why I do not trust this latest measure. Any members who are constituency members of this House would have seen what has happened to Housing New Zealand over the last few years. The Government has stripped away its functions. It has sold houses up and down New Zealand. It has milked the dividends out of Housing New Zealand. It has closed offices and it has sacked tenancy managers. That is what has happened. That is the legacy of the National Party State house policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI have to give the latest story I heard, and the Minister might like to answer this. There are two-storey Housing New Zealand houses in Dunedin. They have just been renovated in some way, and they had fire escape ladders because if you are on the second floor you might need to get out in the event of a fire. Those ladders have been removed, and Housing New Zealand said, no, that it was not going to replace them. That is a very good indication of what has happened to Housing New Zealand and State houses in this country. It is a mean, vicious, nasty approach, because many members opposite, but not all of them, think that those people who end up in State houses deserve it. They got themselves there, and they are getting what they deserve and the sort of housing that Housing New Zealand is prepared to provide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u00223533c8befa484988bce89acfbea0e67d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223533c8befa484988bce89acfbea0e67d\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to just speak for a few moments on the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. I would like to, perhaps, start by helping the member Annette King, who has just spoken. It is clear that her hearing is not quite what it used to be, because what Minister Paula Bennett was talking about was flexible reform, it was innovative reform, it is people at the centre reform, and it is reform that this Government is delighted to be able to push through and debate here this evening. It is not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fc61c029298443d8c4257b898e56651\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They are angry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecf52b8c22474bf5bd78ab8c7537e26c\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: They are incredibly angry. It is not this side of the House that is caught in an ideological rut; it is that side of the House. This side of the House has people and tenants at the focus of our social housing reforms, which is not what we hear on the other side. This bill is an important part of the Government\u2019s social housing reform programme and, as we have heard from Minister Paula Bennett, it has the primary aim of introducing flexibility in the way that the Ministry for Social Development can negotiate and contract with social housing providers. This flexibility is important and, from our side, it should be encouraged. It is absolutely appropriate that we create the framework that this bill enables, which enables the Minister for Social Housing to have the power to direct the Ministry for Social Development to enter into these tailored funding agreements with social housing providers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EAs we know, the current set-up and environment is constraining for the Ministry for Social Development. There is very little flexibility and this bill enables the agencies to be able to get outcomes that will deliver more social housing places for New Zealanders. Examples of possible tailored agreements include paying more for tenants who may be more expensive due to higher needs, such as older people, or entering into a long-term contract with a provider for them to offer a certain number of social housing places for several years. Both of these options are not currently possible under the current law. This is a move away from a one-size-fits-all to something that is more tailored and more sensible and that will deliver better outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWe have heard over the last few minutes a reasonably impassioned view around how community housing providers are not going to respond appropriately and, to use the words of the Opposition, that perhaps this is a pup. I will return later this evening to talk about the experience in Tauranga and the appetite that exists for participating in community housing providers. I look forward to sharing that with the House later this evening. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022241d1db959a647f6b068a062ab55f09e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022241d1db959a647f6b068a062ab55f09e\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Many New Zealanders look to the Nordic countries as a bit of a role model for how our country could be, and typically look with some longing to countries that offer their citizens high standards of living and egalitarian societies that distribute wealth pretty evenly across their societies. It comes as a bit of surprise to many New Zealanders when they learn that the inspiration for those modern Nordic States was actually New Zealand in the 1930s. That is right\u2014it was the Government of Michael Joseph Savage that provided the inspiration for the modern social democratic movements in Scandinavia. There is no image more evocative of that Savage Government than the picture of Savage himself and several other Cabinet Ministers moving furniture into the first State house at 12 Fife Lane. Savage, of course, talked about his programme, not only of housing but also of social welfare and health care, as applied Christianity. He said: \u201CWhat is there more important in Christianity than to be our brothers\u2019 keepers in reality?\u201D. He saw the Government as the expression of our collective responsibility to care for each other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIf the Government is not that, then what is it? What is it for? It seems to me that those basic needs that must be met if we are indeed to care for each other, must include warmth and shelter, and they must include a right to housing. It is not just some matter that the Government of the day might choose to make a matter of policy, but it is actually something that our Governments have collectively signed up to as part of the United Nations International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. New Zealanders have a right to housing. New Zealand Governments have an obligation to ensure that everybody is well housed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIn some ways, this bill may appear on the surface to be somewhat innocuous. There is a particular exception to that, which I will come to a little later in this intervention. But the issue here is what this bill stands for\u2014what it is emblematic of. I have to agree with the contributions made by Phil Twyford and Annette King to date that this bill is emblematic of this Government\u2019s wider housing agenda. A flag is a kind of an emblem. We have got a referendum coming up on the New Zealand flag, and the Government right now is running a consultation under the banner of \u201CWhat do you stand for?\u201D. Well, the emblem that this bill provides for this Government\u2014what it says this Government stands for\u2014is a return to the neoliberal agenda of the 1980s and 1990s. It is a return to the economic philosophies of Hayek and Nozick. It is a return to an agenda of small government and of public choice theory. It is a return to the idea of core functions of the State being stripped away and devolved to the private sector. That is what is at stake in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EWhat we have seen from this Government in housing is it shuffling the ownership of State houses ahead of actually providing more houses at a time of crisis\u2014at a time when people are living in garages in their thousands. What we have seen from this Government is the sale of State houses to private developers, who inevitably will have a different agenda\u2014an agenda that incorporates their own profit motive. We have seen no guarantee from this Government of the proceeds from those house sales going into building any more houses. Indeed, we have seen no guarantee whatsoever of any more houses being built at any time. In relation to the income-related rentals scheme, what we have seen is that the changes that the Government has made to that scheme have been driven by ideology\u2014an ideological belief that exposing Housing New Zealand to competition from the private sector will, somehow, increase its efficiency. That is what sits underneath this reform. It is an ideological belief. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIn the advice that the officials gave to Cabinet before Cabinet signed off on that particular policy, the officials pointed out that one of the likely consequences of that policy change would be that State houses would sit empty. That is right\u2014at a time when we have, what, 6,000 on the waiting list for State houses, some of those State houses would sit empty because of the ideological need to spread income-related rent subsidies across both State provision and private sector provision. We have seen, in a particularly despicable development, tenancy reviews being expanded so that families that are just starting to recover from the chaos of lives without secure homes are being thrust right back into that same chaos. That is an agenda that services only the ideology of the Government. It does not put tenants, and it does not put families in need, at the heart of the agenda in any way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EPart 2 of this bill contains three measures. Two of those are relatively innocuous, and a third actually continues the agenda of the early 1990s\u2014the separation of provider, funder, and policy maker. Just as a reminder to the House of what that separation was all about, it was a policy that was driven by public choice theory and driven by an assumption that the public servants who were involved in those functions would be motivated by their own self-interest. It was policy driven by a culture of distrust in the Public Service, a policy driven by the need to create the panopticon, in Bentham\u2019s ideas, where everybody in the Public Service being observed and monitored would somehow result in better outcomes. The counter approach is for Government to instead create a culture of public service, a culture of trust, and to acknowledge that the experience of funding, planning, and providing housing might just be a pretty useful start when giving Government advice on policy around housing. It is an asset not a liability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI asked earlier what this Government stands for, and this bill and its housing programme say it pretty plainly. What the Green Party stands for is a return to those ideas of the Savage Government\u2014a return to the idea that everybody is entitled to security and everybody is entitled to a safe, warm, affordable, and secure home. It is a return to the idea that we can trust our public servants. It is a return to the idea that the community housing sector has an important role to play. It deserves support, it deserves capital to assist in building housing, and it deserves regulatory reform to enable it to contribute more fully, but the role that the community housing sector can provide should occur in addition to the role that the State itself provides, not as an alternative to it. It is only in the zero-sum game philosophy of this current Government that those two have to be alternatives and not joint solutions to a problem that besets this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00225f841e3eb1314acf9e8e43050f451318\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f841e3eb1314acf9e8e43050f451318\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This particular amendment bill is one that is typical of National Governments, which are always seeking to find ways to reduce spending on social services, while at the same time protecting their voter constituencies, those on higher incomes, and those whom it wishes to protect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5fb3ef24d3f49ea8341764503db653b\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re just wrong, Denis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022579546d0262f4a81a90a05c58274e2fc\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE\u003C/span\u003E: That is not wrong. That is exactly what this Government is doing, and most people can see it. This Government does not care whether or not its cost-cutting ways will damage the effectiveness of social policy. This is a bill that is badly researched, ill-considered, and based fundamentally on National Party dogma. It is a bill that will exacerbate, not improve, social inequalities, and it will degrade the quality of Government services and not improve them. Nobody opposes sensible measures that will make the provision of Government services, especially social housing, more efficient or will provide the same services at a better cost\u2014but never at the expense of worse outcomes for people. That, I am afraid, is inevitably what this amendment bill is going to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThere are common themes throughout National\u2019s social housing legislation: firstly, to minimise the role of the State; secondly, to abdicate to others responsibility for social housing; thirdly, to provide as little money as possible, and to contract others to take responsibility; fourthly, to push as many people out of State housing as it possibly can and to favour non-Government organisations, which are not always capable of the function. We can reflect on the Salvation Army and the decision it made not to get involved. Probably the organisation in the country best able to do so chose not to do so, and for very good reasons. This legislation allows the Government to pretend that it will provide social housing more cheaply but, in fact, it will not. It will just push it off to somebody else. It will allow the Government to avoid full accountability for social housing, and it will fail to protect people against exploding rents\u2014a huge problem in this country. Lastly, the Government does not even try to support local councils in providing public rental housing or elderly persons\u2019 housing in this country, thus letting it off the hook too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe amendment bill is just as objectionable as the principal Act in two ways. First of all, it relies on the policy of reviewable rents\u2014a bureaucratic assessment of the ability of tenants to move into private accommodation\u2014when the real problem is that rents in places like Auckland and Christchurch, due to the simple unavailability of enough homes, are the real problem. Secondly, it will reduce the role of Housing New Zealand. This amendment actually takes that a step further by preventing Housing New Zealand from giving advice to Ministers, thus sidelining that very important organisation. It now reserves that role for the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. That is a mistake because the ministry will only be a contract supervisor, essentially, and it will not have the institutional knowledge necessary to provide the service at the level we expect. And Ministers will, of course, be empowered to give directions about what is to be done, and it is easy to see where that might lead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe results are likely to be social housing provided at very great arm\u2019s length from the Government and its agencies. It will give more power to Ministers, who are, inevitably, going to take a more political approach\u2014a more dogmatic approach\u2014not aimed at looking at the best interests of the most vulnerable people in the community, despite what Government members say over there, but aimed at financial results, fundamentally. Ultimately, that means more housing deprivation, State houses being much too hard to get, non-government providers imposing their own policies and practices\u2014and we do not know what they may be\u2014and, most of all, very uncertain outcomes for low-income people who are dependent on the State for their housing needs. That is not the Kiwi tradition and it is not acceptable as a role for the State in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe price of suppressing demand, which is what this is really all about, is much too high in social terms. It will cause reduced health and well-being, and increased poverty. It will put more families at risk, compromise social cohesion, and exacerbate the creation of a disaffected underclass of people in New Zealand. Despite the Government\u2019s aim that it will have a lenient approach when it comes to reassessing State tenancies, people will inevitably be nudged out of their homes and, effectively, bullied out of their homes. The Government will continue to sell those homes, but it will build too few of them. You only have to take a quick look at this Budget to come to the conclusion that this Government has no intention of trying to meet the demand that is already there\u2014a demand that is not being met now. That is the real issue. This Government is not actually willing to meet the need, and that is really what this legislation is about. It will seek to suppress demand artificially rather than try to meet the genuine housing needs of people in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe bill itself may be seen as a relatively minor provision but it is another step in the wrong direction. As others have said, what is really needed in this country is a genuine social housing service\u2014not just buildings but a true Public Service with the experience and the resources needed. This bill goes in exactly the opposite direction. The Government will instead transfer large sums of money to community housing organisations through contract payments, but these are really still just subsidies, so nothing much will have changed. The landlords will, of course, rub their hands in glee. These organisations will own the housing funded, though, by the taxpayer. They will profit from it and they will compete from it and, as an inevitable result, they will try to increase rents, and that is not in the best interests of either tenants or the taxpayer\u2014or, indeed, anybody else in this country. That is actually the most significant flaw of all in this whole new social housing regime, of which this bill is just one more minor step in the wrong direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThere will be more diversity, and that is potentially a good thing\u2014potentially a good thing\u2014but it is also a very risky thing if it is not done properly. I do not trust some of the providers to whom this function will be entrusted to do that properly. For all of those reasons, New Zealand First opposes this bill. It is a retrograde step. It emasculates Housing New Zealand. It seeks to reduce Government accountability for housing, and it should not be passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f65d0f072a1c4affaa4e38ec3930ed91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f65d0f072a1c4affaa4e38ec3930ed91\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it seems to me that the members opposite seem to be completely missing the point of this bill. This bill is for us to be able to deliver better services to those who need social housing. The purpose of this bill is to ensure that we have social housing in New Zealand that is fit for purpose. It is to create flexibility in those arrangements to ensure that we are accommodating people and allowing non-governmental organisations to work with needy people in such a way that is going to be best for their clients. It is part of a bigger plan to ensure that social housing in New Zealand is available to people in the size and the type that is most suitable to them. It is about giving flexibility to those groups, maybe, that will do a better job of housing them, rather than simply assuming that because we are the Government we will always know what is best for every single individual, which seems to be the kind of arrogance that we are getting from across the other side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EIt is not about continuing with the status quo and assuming that just because that is the way we have always done it that is the way we should always do it. It is about moving forward. It is about delivering Better Public Services. It is about being better equipped to ensure that vulnerable people in this country are being looked after in the best possible way. This bill is one part of a very big machine that is ensuring we do just that. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00228ca66c2b5dd242199cc9234ff9515a05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ca66c2b5dd242199cc9234ff9515a05\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Jan Logie\u2014a 5-minute call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022b82d7ea0b55d473f8f0aa0c3a3ffb377\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b82d7ea0b55d473f8f0aa0c3a3ffb377\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a short call for the Green Party on this bill. We will be opposing this bill, unfortunately. We see housing as a human right. Housing and shelter are at the absolute foundation of community, of family, and of individual well-being. Good, warm, stable, affordable housing improves people\u2019s health, it improves educational outcomes, it improves employment productivity, it reduces costs to Government, and it even reduces carbon emissions. What this bill does is nothing, really, to help us provide warm, secure, affordable housing for people in New Zealand. This is a shifting of the deckchairs on the Titanic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ERight across this country, we have people living on the streets or in their cars. We have heard stories from Invercargill, from Tauranga, from Hastings, from Kait\u0101ia, from Auckland, from Wellington, from Porirua. All over this country people do not have their basic, basic needs being met. This bill is not about building more houses. It is not about actually ensuring that those people get their needs met. What it is about is transferring to the community sector existing houses that are completely rundown as a result of generations of Government neglect. The community sector previously said: \u201CWell, OK, we\u2019re going to look at that, because we think we can provide good wraparound services for people and maybe meet their needs a bit better than the Government.\u201D But then it looked at the state of the housing, and said: \u201CWell, actually, no, this isn\u2019t really viable.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWhat this bill is about is enabling more flexibility to pass that over, recognising the absolutely appalling state of so many of our State houses because of Government neglect. That should sit with the Government. We should acknowledge that this bill is a result of the failure of the Government to care for a key asset. The bill is not going to be increasing the housing available for people; it is just about selling it off. Part of that will go to private developers. We have heard from people in Glen Innes where, as an example, there has been a supposed transformation happening. Veterans were, post-World War II, given a house for life. They are no longer in that house. They had established a community. They knew their neighbours. They were connected. They had community. That has been destroyed by this so-called transformation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWhat this bill represents, in part, is more of this kind of transformation, which is actually a destruction of community. It is a destabilisation of families that is going to disconnect children from their schools. It is going to put people in more fragile and vulnerable situations. I really struggle to see how anyone can think that that is going to be a good result. We are not hearing from the community sector that what it is being offered at the moment and being provided with is what it sees as part of the solution. We are hearing quite a lot of concern coming from those people. They know that a good thriving community housing sector will sit alongside a well-resourced Government State housing sector. We know that we have in Auckland, as an example, house prices going through the roof. Houses have been gaining, and are earning more than most people in Auckland earn in a year. Again, this bill is not going to help with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis bill is reducing the function of Housing New Zealand even more. Housing New Zealand has already lost the ability to assess who will go into its houses, and, now, this bill removes its policy function\u2014its ability to provide policy advice to the Minister. So Housing New Zealand is being put into the role of any other real estate agent, as I think has already been said. If we think about that and about the fact that these are people who are the most vulnerable\u2014because the Government has reduced the housing criteria by such an extent that anyone who is able to get into a house has to be in a pretty dire situation\u2014none of that information and their needs will be fed through to the Minister. Is that going to be good policy making? I think not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002223ae209cb7f64aaf9791fe1a5f2be28e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223ae209cb7f64aaf9791fe1a5f2be28e\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te W\u2019are i t\u014D mihi mai ki a m\u0101tou i t\u0113nei w\u0101hanga o te W\u2019are i t\u0113nei p\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker of the House, in regard to your acknowledgment of us in this session of the House tonight.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI rise, first of all, to mihi out to all wh\u0101nau who are in State houses tonight and who may be watching the broadcast tonight. They will be sitting there wondering what their future is in their home. They will be sitting there wondering, hearing all of this k\u014Drero about this bill tonight, whether they are still going to have a home to live in. This bill merely provides a mechanism for the Government to sell State houses. That is how I see it. I think that the people at home in their State houses do not know what their future will be, who their future private landlord will be, or whether a property developer is going to come along and redevelop their home into something that they cannot afford. That is my concern about this bill. It does not do what the Minister has said it will do: provide more social housing. Well, I do not think so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EIf you start with one set of State houses and then you sell them to someone else, that does not actually increase the number of houses that you have got. Potentially, I believe that it will reduce the number of social homes, because the only way to increase the number of social homes is actually to build more. Under our KiwiBuild policy, which we campaigned on last year, that is exactly what we would have done. Our solution to the housing crisis in New Zealand is to build more homes\u2014more affordable homes\u2014for our people. This bill fails. It does not provide those. This bill does not increase the number of social homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThis bill, actually, is a reflection of core National Party policy. In the 1990s it sold 13,000 State houses, and this is a mechanism that the Government is willing to use to make sure that it gets rid of those homes so that it gets rid of its responsibility. Why I am here tonight is to tell the House that I believe that, despite this bill, the Government must never and can never transfer its responsibility for Kiwi families who require social housing. That is a fundamental way of life in New Zealand, which people expect\u2014that we should be able to have clean, dry homes; social homes that people can actually afford to live in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThis afternoon we have heard members on the other side of the House saying some amazing things, and I have thought to myself: \u201CI am hearing the words but they do not match up with what is on the Table.\u201D They do not match up with what is being presented here in this bill tonight. This bill will actually create opportunities\u2014not for families or for living in social housing, but for property developers and private landlords. That is what this bill does. It attempts to transfer the responsibility of the Government to someone else, and we are here to tell you that that is just not good enough. That is not good enough today, and I think, over the next few hours, that we will be hearing a lot more about what should be happening in the social housing sector. Thank you. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u00224efd0eaa104f44988efd9328d202138a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224efd0eaa104f44988efd9328d202138a\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E This is another great Government bill, sponsored by the Hon Paula Bennett. It reflects again this National Government\u2019s focus on delivering for families and children. This bill is a part of the Government\u2019s Social Housing Reform Programme, which aims to address the needs of families in need for social housing and better meet those needs. In this short call I just want to address one point that is especially coming from the Labour Party. Its focus is on properties, per se\u2014just properties, per se; no focus on families, no focus on families\u2019 needs. That is what this bill is about: changing that focus from properties to families and their needs. I support the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022be2876a04683422fbb3669c4e0e8db4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be2876a04683422fbb3669c4e0e8db4b\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure to also add my remarks to this particular debate. I was caught off guard, because I would have thought that, given this is a significant policy introduction by this Government, National members would utilise their full time in convincing us why this is an important piece of legislation. It is shameful, to say the least, that they spend not even a full minute on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EIn my mind this bill confirms, once and for all, not only that the National Party continues to be in denial in terms of the housing crisis, but also that it is now denying every New Zealander the opportunity to have a home that they can live in. You see, for the past 7 years this Government has continued to deny that there is a New Zealand housing crisis. Even now, the Prime Minister continues to deny it and does not accept it, despite the fact that this is his third term. Government members are in deep denial about it. They continue to deny it because, I suspect, building more houses is just too challenging for them, and building more houses reduces the profitability of the portfolios of some of their investor and property developer mates. Yes, Mr Deputy Speaker, I know that you will agree with me because those mates have been funding the campaigns of this particular Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EMr Key and his Government have been bystanders while the housing crisis has worsened year in, year out. In Auckland, house prices have risen by 87 percent in 6 years. That is an increase of $100,000 from last year. A generation of future New Zealanders are now permanently locked out of the dream of owning their own home. They have been locked out by Mr Key and this sad group of National MPs. More and more Pacific people are now locked out of ever owning their own house under this National Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289882589a761468c84dea87370b2af2d\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not sad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229601c53c21844d8dbdd4f226666a2688\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: I wanted to say something else, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I knew that you would pull me up if I did use those words. Any New Zealanders who find themselves unable to afford their first home today\u2014their first home\u2014according to the Office for Senior Citizens, they will be poorer still when they retire without that particular asset. And while Mr Key and his Government continue to deny that there is a housing crisis, house prices and residential rents continue to rise. The average Auckland house price will hit $1 million by next year, while residential rents have jumped again by 6.3 percent to a median rent of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb9e90223dea4f18b8b0d8b16c93b418\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re happy with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221444f3e72bc4b6791f8faebd4a4eaaf\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, they are happy with that. More and more middle-income earners will never be able to buy their first home at those particular prices. How can they, when middle-income earners have to front up with a 20 percent deposit before they can even secure a mortgage? That will push more and more lower-income earners into homeless situations of living in cars, caravans, garages, and boarding houses. And what is National\u2019s response to the housing crisis? Sell off those State houses\u2014sell off those State houses. New Zealanders expected a plan to build more houses; instead, all they are hearing from this Government is: \u201CSell off those State houses.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ESo far this Government has had every opportunity to do something meaningful to fix the housing crisis, but it has not. It has not done anything meaningful or genuine to address the housing crisis. Yes, it has tinkered around the edges of the crisis with half-baked policies. That tinkering has not halted the housing crisis. Every week there is a line of people applying to Housing New Zealand for housing. They get turned away. They are told to go down to the Ministry of Social Development. They go down there and they are told: \u201CYou are eligible.\u201D They go back to Housing New Zealand and it says: \u201CWell, we have got you on a list, but you are not a priority applicant.\u201D Every week there is a Housing New Zealand tenant being evicted by Housing New Zealand. In fact, I have had cases where, upon the death of parents, Housing New Zealand was quick to notify the children that they would be evicted. In one case, Housing New Zealand sent that eviction notice before the children had a chance to bury their parent. The lines to emergency housing offered by community social services continue to lengthen. Government tinkering in special housing areas has been an absolute failure; the special housing areas have just not worked. They managed about 170 houses in a year and a half, but we are still short by 20,000 houses. The Government needed 13,000 houses just to keep up with population growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EEarlier I heard a National MP in this debate say that this legislation was to provide flexible options to New Zealanders. He said it was about getting the right house to the right person at the right time. What does that mean, for goodness\u2019 sake? I think what it means is: it is market speak. It means that it is up to market forces whether a person gets a house or whether they are ever housed at all. It means this Government is washing its hands of every New Zealander in a homeless situation. It means this Government does not want to take responsibility for New Zealanders who need a home of their own. This Government is selling off our publicly owned State assets to its private sector investor mates. Not to the Salvation Army or the Methodist Mission or community groups with a social conscience\u2014it is selling them off to its investor mates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ERemember how the Government couched the sell-off of State assets? It said that it would sell them off to mum and dad investors. That was a load of crock. That is the same technique that it is using tonight to cover up the fact that our State houses will be sold off to its property investor mates\u2014the same mates who have been funding their campaign activities for the last 7 years. This is their payback. This is what it means when those members say that the bill is about flexible purchasing. It gives the Minister flexibility to flog off billions of State houses to the National Party\u2019s developer mates. The biggest deception and con job of all is National\u2019s State house sell-off. Most New Zealanders are wondering how on earth selling off State houses to developers and property investors will give them a home. It will not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThis bill completely wrecks Housing New Zealand as we know it. The Government has got rid of the policy development feature of that particular ministry. It has got rid of people who managed tenants. Instead, the tenants are faced with an 0800 number. You cannot talk to a real person when you are in need of a home. You are fobbed off in the line at the Ministry of Social Development, you fobbed off in the line at Housing New Zealand, and you are put in another line for the 0800 number. How on earth do people advance themselves when this Government keeps adding lines and making it difficult for people who want houses? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThis bill merrily transfers the responsibility onto the private sector and onto the market. The Government is going to tell people to go and find a house in the market. There is no help for them there. How on earth can people on the minimum wage afford the median rent of $420? On the minimum income you are earning about $500 gross. Less tax, how do they afford the median rent of $420? These buggers\u2014I will start using that word now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200801c4441f14ef9978fab2c930f2a74\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237936b1e72da4e1d8fa4f1c65fcd9d6a\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: OK, I will not use it. These people\u2014these nasty people\u2014have no care whatsoever for the plight of people in need. It is a basic human right to have a house. It is enshrined in international conventions. It is needed, and, yet, somehow, by introducing this bill, the Government goes away, making itself feel good that it is doing something. But it is not doing anything. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EAll that this bill reaffirms, in my mind and in the minds of many people in South Auckland watching and listening to this group here, is that the Government continues to deny not only that there is a housing crisis but also that its legislation will deny every hard-working New Zealander the opportunity of either owning their own home or the opportunity of being in warm accommodation where they can house their children. What I foresee as a result of this legislation are more people in homeless situations, more people forced to live in caravans, more people forced to live in boarding houses, more people forced to live in cars, and more people forced to live in garages. That is the kind of legacy that this Government is leaving behind, because under this legislation there is no long-term vision that will ensure that every New Zealander is able to aspire to own their own home and can achieve that. There is no legacy here to allow for every hard-working New Zealander on a minimum wage to be able to secure for themselves warm, comfortable, affordable rental accommodation\u2014not under this legislation, and none whatsoever under this National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00229e0422148ab647848cb704fa3643c409\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e0422148ab647848cb704fa3643c409\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to speak on this bill, and given that its merits are so blindingly obvious, there is nothing more that I need to say other than that I commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cf89da1d40a4431f89c446e2bfdbb305\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022899d6e3c84054d2089ad017733386c08\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00226e119ee0466349dbacf3e489aa800a3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e119ee0466349dbacf3e489aa800a3e\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill be now read a second time. I think there are a few things that we need to clear up for the member who spoke at the end of the first reading, Su\u2019a William Sio. If he is sending people to Housing New Zealand to go on the waiting list and wondering why they are standing in queues for so long, it is because he is sending them to the wrong place. That is now done by Work and Income. There are 147 Work and Income offices throughout New Zealand. They are front line, so you can turn up there and that is where your assessment is actually done. I think it is really important that you understand\u2014[Interruption] Go on\u2014shout it out; get it out. I understand you are a bit angry about today because it has not gone quite as badly, actually, as you hoped it would. So first of all\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210bdaa31f9f94c8d861e44e3da0458d5\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t wait for the next few days\u2014it\u2019s all downhill from here. When we\u2019re talking, she stops. Keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221d78f8982194b02bcbec9fdf91f084d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Hey, grow up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a13a5de57ee84a87a81a7167bf97a98f\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Bring it on\u2014bring it on. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa9d2b6ab91c465cad958c2065e58784\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: When we\u2019re talking, she stops. Keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e31b8e4d7d184011b7b9218041477c72\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: All good? Finished the abuse yet? Get it out\u2014get it out. Get the abuse out of your system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c74b1d8148744fdaa8d94c6eda6510f1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Look, I would actually like to hear the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c3cde948be94ce5acc611cea2df9303\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Assistant Speaker. What we want to make clear is that what this bill can do is actually quite exciting. It is not necessarily about buying the houses, but it might be. What it could be about is an organisation that wants to lease a house\u2014yes? So, currently, it has land or it has got a house and thinks it wants to get more so it can provide for the very same people, who, we all agree, need more housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ESo let us go for a bottom line\u2014we all agree that there are vulnerable New Zealanders who need access to higher-subsidised housing from the Government. So your argument is that you think the Government should own all of them land; we think there is actually room in the market for community housing providers as well as the Government. So we do not abdicate our responsibility in any way, shape, or form. In fact, I am making a commitment that there is another $152 million that will be going in to help subsidise the accommodation of those who really need it. We actually subsidise accommodation in this country to the tune of nearly $2 billion and we are adding another $150 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWe all agree that there are vulnerable New Zealanders who are not getting access to that heavily subsidised housing, and they should be. The disagreement we have is whether it should all be State-owned or whether there is room for community housing providers to also be doing that. We stand on this side and say that there is most definitely room for community housing providers to provide housing and wraparound services, and how you do that is by passing this bill. What this bill actually means is that we can contract with those providers over a longer period of time, and for some that provide specialist services for certain cohorts, we can actually give them more money so that they have a guaranteed income that they can either borrow or lease against, or provide more services. Community housing providers are saying that to us every day. We would like to be providing more housing. Whether or not we get that from the Government\u2014right\u2014so whether it is about them building more houses themselves, going into partnerships, or leasing properties, what they want from the Government is a guarantee of income so that they can actually then use it against those things. That is what this bill does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThis bill supports community housing providers as they are building the sector. It does not abdicate the Government\u2019s responsibility to pay. In fact, on the record we make an obligation that we will pay, with certainty, more than what they needed and asked for, and this bill delivers it to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00221d26651e564543b192fb9b6c36edb443\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d26651e564543b192fb9b6c36edb443\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E At least the Minister for Social Housing got to her feet and stayed on her feet for what, all of 3 or 4 minutes? That is more than we can say for all of those 1-minute johnnies on the Government benches\u2014all those Government backbenchers\u2014who are so proud of this policy of selling off State houses that they could not summon up more than half a minute\u2019s speech to explain and promote their Government\u2019s policies, which raises, I have to say, the question of why this bill is being rammed through under urgency. What is it about this bill that means it has to be passed by tomorrow? Are the members opposite in such a hurry to flog off billions of dollars\u2019 worth of State houses to their property-developer mates that the bill cannot go to select committee and the public cannot be given the opportunity to have a say and come along and make submissions? Is the bill so urgent that it has to be rammed through under Budget urgency? I would like to hear an explanation from the Minister or from other members on the Government side for why this bill has to be rammed through under urgency, because I cannot see, for the life of me, what is so worthwhile or so urgent that it has to be pushed through under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis bill is about flexible purchasing. It puts extraordinary discretionary powers into the hands of the Minister, to do sweetheart deals with the people he wants to sell these State houses to. He can ramp up the subsidies if he wants to\u2014if it is a particular deal with a private landlord or a property developer whom the Minister is desperate to do a deal with\u2014or he can turn down the subsidies. That kind of flexibility is exactly what National members want in order to be able to do the sweetheart deals they need to flick off these State houses, because they are desperate to offload them to anybody who will take them. The Salvation Army walked away, the Methodist Mission walked away, and the other community housing providers are basically saying \u201CThe only way we could make this work is if you not only gave them to us at rock-bottom prices but you also heavily subsidised us into the bargain.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis Government has been a bystander while the housing crisis has got worse and worse and worse. House prices in Auckland have gone up $100,000 in the past year\u2014$100,000 in the past year. They have gone up by 87 percent in Auckland in the past 6 years but Government members are deep in denial, because they believe that there is no housing crisis, that there is no problem, and that speculators are not a problem. Oh, actually, I think they just admitted on the weekend that speculators are a problem, because they were so embarrassed by the Governor of the Reserve Bank saying publicly that they had not done enough to tackle the housing crisis and that they should do something about the rampant property speculation that is driving house prices higher and higher in Auckland. People desperately wanted this Budget to do something about the housing crisis, but there are so many gaps in this Budget. It does nothing for the regions, it does nothing to diversify our economy, and it does nothing to plan for future economic growth for New Zealand. But probably the biggest disappointment is that it contains nothing of any substance to fix the housing crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EToday the Government announced that it is going to make Government land in Auckland available for housing developments, and I think everybody agrees that that is a good idea. The shame is that this Government did not do it 7 years ago when it came to office. Instead, what did it do? Government members derided and ridiculed the Helen Clark Government\u2019s work on providing an inventory of Government land available. They knocked that work on the head as soon as they took office, and they have sat on their hands for nearly 7 years. They have done nothing with it, and it was only as they were scrambling around in a panic to find something to present to the public that would show they were doing something about the housing crisis that they dusted off the work that was done 7 years ago by the former Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWhat is really telling if you watch Nick Smith, the Minister for Building and Housing, on the TV news tonight, or if you go to the Stuff website and see the story about him, is that he was asked by a journalist how many of the houses they are going to build in Auckland on vacant Government land will be affordable. Nick Smith gave a sly little smile and said: \u201CI think they\u2019ll be affordable to somebody, because somebody will buy them.\u201D That says it all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ecce719f9f04857b970c63f7c153fb9\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Cynical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224640927ed5d14b56af3245c3a169364c\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It is absolutely cynical. They do not care about the thousands and thousands of frustrated New Zealand families\u2014Kiwi first-home buyers\u2014who are desperate simply to get a roof over their heads and a home that they can call their own. This Government acted cynically with this announcement today\u2014as has been the case with the special housing areas, where fewer than 10 percent of the houses built are actually affordable, and the Government\u2019s definition of affordable is anything under $550,000. That shows the cynicism of this Government. They were not prepared to take up Andrew Little\u2019s challenge. They were not prepared to promise to the public of New Zealand that all the houses built will be affordable. All we got was Nick Smith with his sly little smile saying that they will be affordable to somebody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EAll this Government has done is tinker around the edges with half-baked policies that have not made the slightest bit of difference to a housing crisis that has been getting worse and worse under National\u2019s watch. The special housing areas, which are the centrepiece of the Government\u2019s attempt to deliver to the lack of supply of houses in Auckland, have been an abysmal failure. In 1\u00BD years 170 houses have been built in Nick Smith\u2019s special housing areas\u2014170. Auckland needs 13,000 houses every year just to keep up with population growth. Under National, a deficit of 20,000 houses has built up over the past 6 years. That is the Reserve Bank\u2019s number. Twenty thousand houses short, we need 13,000 a year just to keep up with population growth, and how many are being consented under National? Fewer than 8,000 a year. That is why the shortage is getting worse and worse every year. Every day the shortage is getting worse, and that is why Auckland house prices are going up by $1,000 a day. Is it any wonder that it now takes 50 years, on average, to pay off the average home in Auckland? Is it any wonder that homeownership rates under this National Government are the lowest in 60 years\u201460 years? And John Key says there is not a housing crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EOther than the spectacularly unsuccessful special housing areas, what else has National done about the housing crisis? Well, 12 months ago it unveiled another great policy of the National Party, and that was to remove tariffs and anti-dumping duties from varnish, nails and various building materials. Nick Smith stood in this House and promised that it would knock $3,500 off the cost of a new home. His own officials advised that it would save a little over $1,000 and that that money would be pocketed by developers. That is the kind of policy that this National Party specialises in. Since 2006 National members have been blaming the Resource Management Act for expensive houses; since they were in Opposition, they have been saying that the Resource Management Act is the problem. And what have they done? Paul Goldsmith, what have they done about the Resource Management Act reform in 6 years in Government? Absolutely zilch. National has done nothing to reform the Resource Management Act in 6 years in Government, and Bill English has got the cheek to stand up in this House and blame the Resource Management Act. What audacity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ENational\u2019s other bright idea was to throw subsidies at first-home buyers through the Welcome Home Loan scheme, and yet the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, Treasury, and the Reserve Bank all told it that it would make no difference\u2014that it would drive up house prices and make the unaffordability crisis even worse than it is already. And now the National Government thinks that selling off State houses to property developers is some kind of answer to the fact that people are living in cars and garages all around New Zealand, and that people are rotting in cold damp substandard private rentals because there are simply not enough houses. But National thinks that the solution to that problem, rather than building more houses, is to change the ownership of the few houses that we have that are there as a dedicated pool of housing for the most vulnerable and the poorest New Zealanders\u2014that, somehow, selling them off to private developers is an answer to that problem. I just do not understand it. I do not understand what makes this National Government tick, and I do not know where its members lost their moral compass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u002276ddd613f2774115804bd223a1ca385b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276ddd613f2774115804bd223a1ca385b\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E It is an honour to rise and speak to the second reading of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. Mr Twyford and some of the Opposition have questioned the urgency for speeding through this legislation. The urgency is to do with the 3,000 people who will get extra housing support because of this bill. This will allow support for up to 65,000 people in total, 3,000 more people by 2017-18. What does Mr Twyford say to those 25 percent of people on a waiting list, waiting for Housing New Zealand with a 9 percent supply? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EReally, the urgency means that no one should talk longer than the useful information they have to say. That is a lesson your leader learnt today. Something that will last with me through this whole term is this Budget, but, equally, what will stay with me through the whole term is the look on your faces while your leader spoke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhat I say to the community sector, a creative community sector, is that we believe in you. Mr Hague said that we believe in a small State\u2014we do not believe in a small State; we believe in a big community. That is what we are supporting, Mr Hague\u2014a big community. That is what we are supporting. What I can say to those New Zealanders, whether they be Gene Simmons, Axl Rose, or Jon Bon Jovi, is that we believe in you. If you want to be supported to independence in your housing, this bill will support you. We believe in you. I commend the bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022dda62f3dd8da4c8daaf69a0c30c23cac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dda62f3dd8da4c8daaf69a0c30c23cac\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c3188dda323433e8f2f444cda63d0cf\u0022\u003EJono Naylor\u003C/span\u003E: One of you do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b66070a6c80480bbf955018726cd1ed\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Well, at least I have got something to say. That member\u2014all he did was pick up the research notes and make a speech that everybody else has made. I have to say, when I listened to the speeches\u20141 minute 27 seconds, 2 minutes, 3 minutes\u2014that is what the contributions have been tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI have to say that this is a very disappointing debate from the National Party. You see, we have before us tonight a piece of legislation that is not going to go to a select committee, that the public of New Zealand will have no input into at all. This House, costing thousands of dollars a minute, is required to scrutinise legislation on behalf of the public when urgency is taken. We would expect that a Government that is so proud of the legislation, that really loves the legislation, would stand and make a 10-minute speech on what it means, what it is going to do, and why it is so proud. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022717c3ae72bb44a2a923ce00e9e992c6c\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve talked about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228390653e3f9a4d0d907928b284729898\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: But what we are getting\u2014apart from the interjections from the senior whip, who seldom gets to his feet but makes his speeches from his backside\u2014I have to say, from the C-team National has rolled in tonight, are 1-minute and 2-minute speeches, 1-minute and 2-minute speeches. That is an outrage to democracy. It is an outrage that those members cannot get on their hind legs and make a speech about a bill that they are so proud of. I have to say, Minister Bennett, that you have not told us why there needs to be urgency. We got an explanation from \u201CMr Doozy\u201D up the back. \u201CMr Doozy\u201D up the back told us\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022192a182ea62e41b7b4db81ff828f217e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I know that the member probably does not take offence to that, but his name is Doocey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281d7d99edaa84700b9402e6ffa79ed63\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The missing \u201Cs\u201D\u2014the missing \u201Cs\u201D. Let us put the missing \u201Cs\u201D back in Mr Doocey and say that he told us why this bill needed to be passed under urgency. And why does it need to be passed under urgency, Minister? Because tomorrow\u2014believe this\u20143,000 people will be housed. If we pass this tonight, we are going to have 3,000 people housed tomorrow. Let us go back to our electorates and see how many people get a house tomorrow because we took urgency on a bill that does not need urgency, Mr Doocey with an \u201Cs\u201D. It does not need urgency. It does not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWhy not let the people of New Zealand have a wee say on the bill. I know why. Because maybe the thinking public of New Zealand will say: \u201CWhat are you doing this for? What is the reason for this bill? Why do you need this bill, apart from the fact that you want a creative way to sell off State houses?\u201D. National does not want the people coming in, who may well be State house tenants, telling it what they think about this bill, so it is ramming it through under urgency tonight, with this pathetic excuse that it has to do it because 3,000 people tomorrow could get a house. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWell, I have to say, tell me how that is going to happen with this bill. How exactly is this bill going to provide 3,000 extra houses? In fact, how does selling off State houses actually create more houses? How does that work? How does selling off State houses create more houses for social housing? You see, National members cannot answer the question, because it is nonsensical. What it is doing is absolutely nonsensical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI think the Minister really put it into perspective for all of us tonight when she was speaking and she let the cat out of the bag when she was talking about State house tenants. She called them cohorts. That is what they are; they are cohorts, those State house tenants\u2014just a figure, just a number, just a statistic. They are not people who need to be housed because they are the most vulnerable we have. We do not believe\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b962cde7f164ce38fdcce4ce1140949\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Outrageous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c4d049111d642f9bb9d9bbf1d978a62\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not, Mr Bishop. You totally agree with me. I can tell by the look on your face. You know it. If there is one person over there who is not in the C-team, it is Mr Bishop. In fact, I predict that he is going to be in the A-team pretty fast indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI have to say that I think National members are the Neros of New Zealand because they have been fiddling away with house prices and house policy for 7 years. They have been fiddling, fiddling around the edges, actually having to increase their fiddling every year as we put pressure on them by saying: \u201CYou are not housing New Zealanders. You are not treating New Zealanders fairly.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESo as they have been fiddling, house prices in Auckland have been going up and are going up at $1,000 a day. Do you know that the increase in a month is more than a pensioner gets in a year in their pension? That is how fast the house prices in Auckland have been going up. Unfortunately, if they are one of those pensioners whose house value is going up, they will not be able to afford the rates if they are on a pension. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThen we have the Government\u2019s new approach to housing. It is going to free up Government land. Well, we said that 7 years ago. In fact, we said it at Hobsonville. And let me remind members opposite what their Prime Minister, who was then Leader of the Opposition and member for the area where Hobsonville is, said about the use of Government land to provide affordable housing. Can anyone remember? Go back and have a look. Just put it into Google. You will find it. He said it was economic sabotage\u2014economic sabotage\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b553bcba7d0424297f44830c137f7ad\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Doing it now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c8286ca355341f598d337cf1dfbbc83\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014well done, Mr Bishop; he had it\u2014to build State houses on land like Hobsonville. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ENow it has got this idea, which is 7 years old, that it will open up some Government land and build houses on it. But what we know is that there will not be many that will be affordable, because there is something like 17 in Hobsonville out of the thousands that have been built. Even the 17\u2014if the people in them were to sell them today\u2014would no longer be affordable houses. They were already over $400,000 and climbing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIn this new policy, which was made up in the last few weeks\u2014and we know that for a fact\u2014rushed through, put together in urgency and in a panic, we are not told how many will be affordable or what affordable means. You know, it was only a few weeks ago that I said to Steven Joyce on our much listened to weekly radio show on Newstalk ZB: \u201CWhy don\u2019t you use Government land to increase the supply of land in Auckland?\u201D. I said: \u201CThe Government owns more land than anybody else.\u201D And do you know what the Minister did? He pooh-poohed the whole idea. He pooh-poohed it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266a35efe11e44aecbf9a76723c2615ee\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022742668e200cf4219a7a75bc350f6b068\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: You see, it was before the Government made the decision to do it, Mr Bishop. That is why he pooh-poohed it. I will ask him next week on my much listened to radio show what he now thinks of the idea of releasing Government land. He will no longer pooh-pooh it; he will say it was his idea, no doubt. In fact, he thinks he has most of the ideas in the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EYou have to say that the whole housing area and these special housing zones that we have got, as my colleague and friend Phil Twyford said, are just a sham. They are just some sort of paper transaction that the Government is having, saying: \u201CLook, we\u2019ve got these special areas and there are 170 houses that have been built.\u201D And then it says: \u201CBut what about all the consents that we\u2019ve got going through?\u201D. Well, I do not know whether it has worked it out, but people cannot live in consents. They actually are not houses; they are bits of paper that are shuffled around and maybe one day something will happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESo what has it done in this space? Well, I like one of the things it has done. It brought in the knock-down nails policy. It got the cheap nails coming in, which were going to reduce the cost of houses by $3,000 a building. Big deal\u2014big deal\u2014because within 3 days the benefits of the knock-down nails were all gone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWhen you look at it, it has done nothing with the Resource Management Act. We offered to assist the Government in passing the Resource Management Act around housing. Oh no, it did not want to do that because it wanted the whole big enchilada. It wanted the whole lot. It was not prepared to accept a deal where we could have helped it with changes to the Resource Management Act in housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI have to say that the Government still has not learnt that if you do not provide warm, dry, affordable housing, you are going to end up with diseases like rheumatic fever. Let me just end on this note: it has not increased the number of houses. It has not made those houses warm and dry for many people. Today, to top it all off, it is stopping the funding for the rheumatic fever programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u002291a36c3fadc1495fb42fe07c5d58e2ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291a36c3fadc1495fb42fe07c5d58e2ba\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to speak for a few minutes on the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. The previous speaker, Annette King, said one thing that I agree with, one thing only, and that is that Chris Bishop will become a member of the A-team sooner rather than later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EI do want to make a comment in respect of Phil Twyford, who for every single question time for the last 6 months has been vein-bulging at the Government, saying: \u201CHousing crisis! You need to act with urgency. It needs to happen now.\u201D So here we are tonight, standing here with a bill that enables our Minister to negotiate with community housing providers who are ready and waiting to be able to enter commercial deals that are innovative and flexible and will deliver outcomes for their community, and all we get is dissent, pooh, pooh, pooh, and negativity. That is why that party is where it is in the polls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThis is a party that actually has a framework to enable us to be able to resolve issues. You can see it in Tauranga. I was there last week. The Tauranga Community Housing Trust was announcing there the opening of its new, brand new, housing with one and two bedrooms. The tenants were absolutely loving the move from the cold, damp, old, historic State houses. You know, life is not all about the State having to provide everything. There are people in the community who have skills, who have people whom they care about who can partner with the State and get a better outcome. That is what this bill is about, and I cannot wait for it to pass. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a87d2132df0d47fe914a50a7aae2a6da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a87d2132df0d47fe914a50a7aae2a6da\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is a second reading debate and ordinarily in a second reading I would be looking for the departmental report summarising the submissions. I would be looking for the select committee\u2019s report on what the New Zealand public had had to say about the bill we were considering, and looking for the revision-tracked version of the bill, because there always is a revision-tracked version, is there not? Invariably, the bill that is introduced to this House is considered for its first reading, goes away to a select committee, and comes back changed. It comes back changed because, actually, scrutinising the bill for a little bit longer results in improvements to it. That is why unnecessary urgency is a bad practice for democracy and a bad practice for lawmaking. There is no conceivable reason for urgency for this bill. The bill itself would have been the better for going to a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI am going to start, instead of quoting from the select committee report, by just quoting from the problem definition in the regulatory impact statement. What that says at paragraph 25 is: \u201CIn December 2014 Cabinet agreed a direction for reform of the social housing sector which creates a fair, effective, and efficient social housing market.\u201D\u2014market. Yet the reason that the Government needs to be involved in providing social housing at all is that experience in the real world has shown that social housing is a service that is not well matched to need by markets at all. A market is the very last thing that we need in social housing. Instead, this bill is not about providing for need; it is about providing for the Government\u2019s ideological beliefs\u2014in particular, this ideology of the smaller State. I thank Mr Doocey for his very witty joke in his contribution in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EOn 1 November last year the Minister Paula Bennett admitted that in fact this was a State asset sale. She said so on national television, continuing that ideological programme of State asset sales, and winnowing down the size of the State that was commenced by the Government in the last couple of terms. She also went on to say, and Bill English later on in this House confirmed, that there was no guarantee whatsoever that any of the proceeds from selling off those State assets would be used to build any new houses. In other words, it was just about shuffling around the ownership arrangements of the houses, not about housing anyone extra at all. Simply shifting responsibility for the housing of vulnerable New Zealanders on to charities or to the private sector, and then banking the cash from a fire sale of those assets, will not solve anything at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EAlmost 5,000 families were on the waiting list for a State home in December. The census showed over 200,000 people in Auckland, including around 63,000 children, were now living in a crowded household because of the shortage of housing. Those children, as Annette King has said, are at growing risk of diseases of overcrowding, diseases of poverty: skin infections, respiratory conditions, and rheumatic fever. Rheumatic fever prevention, as Annette King has said, was the programme that the Government introduced with all the fanfare in the last term of Parliament. It has lowered the axe on it in the Budget today with no fanfare whatsoever. Those kids do not need to be made the responsibility of a charity. They need a real, tangible place to call home. New Zealand\u2019s housing crisis is caused fundamentally by a lack of affordable homes. Selling off State houses so that developers can make money by sitting on the land or building more expensive homes, which is precisely what is going on under this Government, cannot possibly be the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThis bill also serves the ideological belief of this Government that its role is only to be a provider of a small amount of help as a last resort, rather than as the guarantor of those basic rights that New Zealanders hold. Bill English, again, in a meeting that he held with the editorial staff of the New Zealand Herald, said that Housing New Zealand has \u201Cbecome a pool of long-term dependency. You get in and you stay in so you don\u2019t move out. So it\u2019s creating large future liabilities having them in here.\u201D If you go back to the original report\u2014he refers to a report from the Department of Building and Housing. Its big thing was about mobility\u2014how you meet serious housing needs but enable people to keep moving back up the ladder to independence, which is a somewhat cynical way of saying that actually the Government\u2019s agenda here is about minimising the cost of providing services for people. That ladder towards independence is the very ladder that the Government proposes whisking out from more and more State house tenants under the reviewable tenancies scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThis bill is also about the ideology of separating out policy advice from the basic grounding that the policy advice could benefit from by being co-located with the planning, funding, and provision functions that exist in Housing New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI can almost conjure up that early 1990s environment. I can imagine the hairstyles. I can think of the shoulder pads, the chrome, the pink and grey stripes, and probably, I imagine, that that is the environment in the rarefied atmosphere of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, the Government department that this Cabinet, this Government, can trust to give it the ideologically pure advice on policy around housing that it so desperately craves. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022195412ab191e4c728929a6deb42dbcb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022195412ab191e4c728929a6deb42dbcb7\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Annette King said that this was a Government of Neros because of its fiddling policies as far as social housing is concerned, but I think that it is actually a Government of zeros, because that is the number of additional rental houses that its policies and this bill will generate\u2014zero. That is the effect of this Government\u2019s policies. That is the legacy of 7 years of this National Government\u2014zero. That is what it really is. This bill is a monument to this Government\u2019s appalling record on housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EWhen I first entered this House in 2011 there was already a very significant housing shortage, especially in Auckland. Of course, in that very same year we had the Christchurch earthquakes, and that created another housing crisis there. Even then the Government was saying: \u201CThere is no housing crisis.\u201D However, it got worse and it got worse and it got worse until we got to the point when nobody with half a brain could deny that we have the most serious housing crisis in this country\u2019s history. And yet this Government still fiddles and still produces zeros as far as increased houses for people who need to rent them from the State are concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First would support sensible policies that provide more efficient services and better services at less cost, but never\u2014never\u2014at the expense of people who are being forced out of their homes. That is, effectively, what this legislation and the principal Act that it amends do. What this Government seeks to do is to minimise the role of the State; abdicate responsibility to others; provide as little money as possible for housing; contract others to take responsibility instead; push as many people out of State houses as possible; favour non-government organisations, many of whom are simply not capable of fulfilling this function; pretend that public services are being provided at less cost; avoid full accountability for social housing; and, lastly, fail to protect people against exploding rents. That is the record of this Government, and that is why I say that this bill is a monument to its appalling record on housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EIf you look at some of the best housing providers in the community, one of the best is the Salvation Army. It is an NGO that could be relied upon to be a good provider. However, it looked at the Government\u2019s policies, it looked at what the Government was trying to do, and it stepped back and said: \u201CWe\u2019re not going to be a part of that.\u201D\u2014to its credit; to its credit. That, actually, is a sound commentary from an independent source on what this Government\u2019s housing record really is, and on its legislation on social housing in particular. The main thrust of what the Government is trying to do is, actually, to reduce the size of the State and, in particular, in this case, to reduce the role of Housing New Zealand. It could not be more clearly spelled out than we see in this amendment bill. It is a further step in the wrong direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EBy preventing Housing New Zealand from giving advice to Ministers, it is sidelining an important role for Housing New Zealand\u2014a role that it has performed very well over a very long time. It is a mistake to do that. Instead, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment will be given that responsibility, but, actually, it is going to be only a contract supervisor with a limited role and no real responsibility. The result will be that far too much institutional knowledge will be lost, and Ministers will be empowered to give directions. There is a deliberate move towards what is called \u201Cflexibility\u201D, but none of the speakers opposite\u2014even though they have used the word a lot\u2014have told us what that really means. What I think it means is that Ministers will be able to exercise their own agenda, and that is why they have been given the power to give directions. This is not a good way to conduct and administer housing policy in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3b3b54bb9d94b3b972f856ddc2bcdc2\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Does that member understand what he\u2019s trying to say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266b471e29c514b0b9b9124208d63d6c9\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE\u003C/span\u003E: If that member opposite cannot understand what I am trying to say, then that is an indictment on him, not on what I have said. He does not understand this bill. I doubt that he has even read it, and he certainly does not want to take responsibility for some of the worst Government policy that this Government has brought forward in this term or the last one. I recommend that that member actually reads the bill, and when he speaks next perhaps he will try to say something sensible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe results of this Government\u2019s policy will be that social housing will be delivered at very great arm\u2019s length from the Government\u2019s agencies. More power will be given to Ministers, which is another example of an increase in executive power. That is likely to mean a very political approach and it is likely to mean a very dogmatic approach, not one aimed at looking at the best interests of the most vulnerable people in this country, despite what those opposite have been saying. It will, in fact, have the opposite effect. It will mean those people will be worse off and have fewer housing choices, and it will certainly not meet the housing need for people who need to rent homes in this country. It ultimately means more housing deprivation. State houses will be even harder to get, non-government providers will impose their own policies and practices\u2014and goodness knows what they will be\u2014and, most of all, it will mean a very uncertain outcome for low-income people, many of whom will be pushed out of State houses with nowhere really to go. That is a very poor legacy and a very poor outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe price of supressing demand, which is what this Government is really trying to do, is very high in social terms. It will cause reduced health and well-being, increased poverty, more families at risk, compromised social cohesion, and an exacerbation of the already badly disaffected enough underclass of people in New Zealand. Despite the Government\u2019s claims, people will inevitably be bullied out of their State houses. The Government will continue to sell State houses. Goodness knows how that will improve the situation for people who need to rent homes in New Zealand. The Government will build far too few State houses, and that is the fundamentally bad part of the Government\u2019s programme. There is no money, really, set aside in this Budget to improve that situation. This Government is simply unwilling to invest and to ensure that there are enough houses for people to rent in New Zealand. It is another step in the wrong direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe Government will pay huge sums of money to community housing organisations through contracts that are supposed to be tailored contracts. What does this term \u201Ctailored\u201D mean? Again, nobody opposite has really described what that means. What I think it means is that some organisations will be treated differently from others. And what is the effect of that and what is the reason for that? We have not been told. We do not really know what this amendment will do as far as these so-called tailored contracts are concerned. Let us hear an explanation from the Minister, because so far she has not given one. These are still just subsidies to registered providers. Call it what you like; that is actually what they are. These organisations will own the housing funded by the taxpayer, they will profit from it, they will compete for it, and they will try to get the highest rents they can for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThis bill is a retrograde step. It emasculates Housing New Zealand. It seeks to reduce Government accountability. It increases executive power. It does nothing to reduce rents. It does nothing to increase the rental housing stock. New Zealand First will certainly vote against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022409000085b844eaa844a223bafa40965\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022409000085b844eaa844a223bafa40965\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I think at the heart of this debate about this bill is actually a Government that is putting people at the centre of social housing rather than putting a housing provider at the centre of the bill. It is about people. That is what this whole Budget is about. I would like, with great pleasure, to commend the bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00220cb5418b04d24199a4e9973e2377a59c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220cb5418b04d24199a4e9973e2377a59c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. Jan Logie\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1592b27ea1846869e937bd86aef2470\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1592b27ea1846869e937bd86aef2470\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E After what may have been the shortest speech of the night\u2014I am not even sure whether that last speech made 20 seconds\u2014I rise to take a call\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205322874275f4e91bbdda15e6df359e2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am sorry, but I will ask the member to start again. I could not hear the beginning of her speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022185b361fab974a41b06a5092ae57005e\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I was just commenting on the brevity of the last speech, possibly under 20 seconds and possibly even the shortest speech of the evening. Well done, National Party! Your enthusiasm and commitment to the detail is absolutely impressive! I am sure we are all feeling far more enlightened on this side of the House about the details of this bill that has just been presented to us so recently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAs my colleague has also mentioned, normally we come to the second reading after having been through the select committee process where we would have heard submissions from the public who have raised concerns around the detail or the concept of the bill. We have been able to ask questions, and we have had their responses back. We have had ministerial advice from the departments, to be able to consider what the implications are and what this wording is conveying. In my experience, even legislation that has been one page in length, incredibly short, has resulted in change. That is the usual process that we go through. We are here in this situation with a bill relating to housing, which is an absolute core issue for this country at the moment. We know we have a housing crisis, even if some members of that Government seem a bit shy about using that word. I have heard someone on that side use it occasionally, slipping up, and I am sure they got told off afterwards. But here we are, on a major issue for this country, having legislation passed under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt is legislation\u2014as we have heard several members on this side say\u2014the detail of which is a little opaque. We are looking at the documents that have been given to us; I am looking at the departmental disclosure statement. What this bill is doing, from what I can make out, is that it is not going to affect a tenant\u2019s experience directly. The actual bill itself though, the context that it is sitting in, is in relation to the passing over of State assets to other private property developers or community organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe actual bill itself will enable the Minister to have flexibility to tailor the contracts. We have been hearing a lot about flexibility. What they are saying specifically is that with tenants\u2019 needs resulting in higher or lower tenancy management costs, they can vary the terms of the contract, make payments for vacant properties to guarantee a provider\u2019s income stream, and make offers for long-term fixed-price tenancies at prices that diverge from the market rent but benefit the Crown, the provider, and the tenant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe see mention of the tenant in there a couple of times, but not that often, despite the fact that we have been told this is all about the tenants; it is not about anybody else\u2014it is not about the Government and it is not about the providers; it is about the tenants. Actually, there is not much mention of the tenants, from what I can see in this. There has been no consultation with any State housing tenants, in the documents here. From what I am hearing from State house tenants in the community, this is very unsettling. Communities are being destroyed at the moment, and that is what people are telling us. Communities that have existed in Maraenui, in Porirua, in Glen Innes, and around the country\u2014longstanding communities are being destroyed. Yet we hear from the National Government that apparently it is the Government for big community. [Interruption] Well, communities of constant transition and movement\u2014that is actually not community, Mr Doocey, might I say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe are being told that this is about lower payments for providers in places where there is little ongoing demand. I really think that there is enough detail and complexity in there that deserves consideration, and I do have some questions for the Minister We are being told that this bill will allow community organisations to get more money to meet the needs of clients. It is not necessarily even about the sale of houses but about leasing arrangements. I know Women\u2019s Refuge gets houses through Housing New Zealand at the moment, and the needs of women and children going into refuge are dealt with through separate contracts, not through the housing-related contracts. So I am struggling to see where this fits and why those specific needs of tenants cannot be dealt with through existing contracting systems. I am also struggling to understand why Housing New Zealand would need more flexibility. There are questions to be answered, and I really hope that at least at some stage in this debate we get some answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00229b0fd26f63eb4c64ad0d27b0f7773976\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b0fd26f63eb4c64ad0d27b0f7773976\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon David Cunliffe\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022de85a0e12650419d8cde79486d3f2e96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de85a0e12650419d8cde79486d3f2e96\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E It is d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu. Here we are, in the dead part of the evening, passing a Budget bill under urgency, through all stages, when it is not urgent. It is not urgent. The only thing that is urgent is to relieve the Government of embarrassment, because New Zealanders do not want the Government to do what this bill does. I remember a picture of Bob Semple taking the first table into the first State house. New Zealanders loved Mickey Savage\u2019s Government, which built State houses so that New Zealanders who could not afford to rent a house got a roof over their heads. Then the Clark-Cullen Labour Government brought in the income-related rent subsidy to take some pressure off families who could not put food on the table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWell, this bill undoes all of that. This bill empowers the Minister to flog off those State houses to for-profit developers, in a grand payback to National\u2019s business lobby mates. This bill gives the Minister the ability to change by fiat the 25 percent fixed income-related rent subsidy, thereby costing hard-working New Zealand families the food off their table because they cannot afford the crazy prices of Auckland rents. This is a sad day, and the Government\u2019s pollsters know it. That is why we are here, in the middle of the night, passing this bill, this shameful bill, through all stages without a select committee hearing, without the opportunity for New Zealanders to have their say, because the Government wants it. [Interruption] There they are\u2014sitting and chirping, smug in the arrogance of a third-term Government. They are smug in the arrogance of a third-term Government. They just want it off the TV screens, because they know New Zealanders fundamentally deplore what is being done in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EYou know, the housing crisis is about real people, like the people in my electorate. We have three families with young kids who are living in garages. They have come to my office. We have a family of 12 in a two-bedroom property, and the adolescent kids do not have rooms and they do not have privacy. We have got a family that is under abuse, which could not get a safe house because there are not enough houses. And you know that the solutions to those terrible problems of overcrowding and abuse are not hard to think of. You build more houses and you get foreign investors out of the market, because they are simply speculating and driving up the rents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226057b4a979c1442381fec4299f15afdb\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: That makes sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ec2605d0f7e4e4d907ca03c8b11a816\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: That makes sense. It is not that hard to understand, but what is the Government doing? It is flogging the State houses off for profit, and it is going to drive up rents by fiddling with the income cap. It is taking it in exactly the wrong direction, because this is a Government that has hit the panic button\u2014hit the panic button. It is well into its third term, it has finally woken up to the crisis, and the word came from the pollsters: \u201CYou\u2019d better do something.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EAnd there is no plan except profit with these guys\u2014no plan except for profit, which comes off the tables of hard-working New Zealanders. Hard-working New Zealand families like the family in my electorate\u201412 of them in a two-bedroom house\u2014are waiting for the State house that will never come. So, you know, the Government said: \u201CWell, we will give it to the community sector, like the Salvation Army or the Methodist Mission.\u201D Well, they are decent people, who said: \u201CWe don\u2019t want an unfunded mandate. What are we going to do with all of the liabilities when you are not giving us any money to buy them with?\u201D. It is a travesty, and the longer that New Zealanders have to hear about it, the less they are going to like the Government that is flogging off their houses for profit and pushing up their rents. That is why we are in this House, in the dead of night, passing this bill without a select committee hearing. It is wrong. The bill is wrong. The process is wrong. The result is wrong, and it will be part of the undoing of this selfish, greedy Government, which is acting against the interests of New Zealand families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u00221d1f6698fab3496bbe2339d753fc6ff0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d1f6698fab3496bbe2339d753fc6ff0\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E In very simple terms, this bill aims to help families in need to get into social housing that meets their needs. How can this be wrong\u2014meeting families\u2019 needs? It cannot be wrong. As we heard, this bill is to introduce flexibility for the Ministry for Social Development to contract and negotiate with social housing providers. That is to support a growing role for community providers to deliver social housing. It is also to improve the supply of social houses to meet demand. It also clarifies and confirms a number of processes that already happen in practice. This bill will also help tenants get back into housing independence. We want to make sure that those people who are in real need are provided with social housing. We are making social houses fit for people to live in. They are not just properties to us; they are houses where we want to house people in need\u2014families in need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThis National Government has insulated all State-owned social houses. They are warmer, drier, and healthier under this National Government. This flexibility about ownership is a great thing. Social houses sold will remain as social houses, and the tenants will remain housed in them for the duration of their need. This is a win-win situation for tenants, for local communities, and for taxpayers. It is not the duration of the speech; it is the message that counts, and the message is that it is a win-win situation for tenants, for local communities, and for taxpayers. Thank you. I support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c057e1cde68746dea8ef4b4c90db401e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c057e1cde68746dea8ef4b4c90db401e\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Never before has so much pride been displayed by so few in such a short space of time. It has been quite cooling. That was one of the longest contributions that we have had at a second reading on a bill going through under urgency, where it is not having the scrutiny that we would expect in Parliament under normal circumstances in terms of its select committee stage. It is, frankly, an arrogant Government that thinks that it can rush through legislation at this pace, even under urgency, without giving that legislation a full debate and a full airing. We have heard some fantastical explanations why. There was Mr Doocey, who thinks that, magically, houses are going to grow overnight if only this bill is passed. We will wake up in the morning and, throughout the land, there will have sprouted houses into which the good people can move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThere is a naivety in this Government, which is showing through in this legislation. We are hearing over and over and over again with this piece of legislation the panic that has set in in this Government. There has been some polling and those members have seen there is a problem\u2014their inaction on housing over their 7 years in Government\u2014yet here we are, pushing through a half measure that is only enabling something that is not going to help the situation. It is the only solution that they have come up with. Other suggestions that they have had around housing seem to have disappeared, such as the much-touted during the election campaign, and the much-touted at the beginning of this year, Resource Management Act reforms. That was going to be the silver bullet for housing in New Zealand. We are still waiting for Dr Smith to show us those reforms. We have actually said: \u201CShow us them. Put them on the table and do you know what? If there is some stuff that will help with housing, we\u2019ll look at it. Let\u2019s use the mechanism of a national policy statement, and then we could, actually, perhaps join with you and work on that.\u201D, but has National fronted up and shown them to us? No, because this is a Government that does not have answers around housing. This is a Government that has got empty ideological rhetoric, which is not going to make a blind bit of difference to the lives of ordinary New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat we have had touted tonight\u2014starting with the Prime Minister and echoed through all the research note speeches\u2014is a clear commitment to compassionate conservatism coming from the Government benches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fa485c2a2354548bce5e191f0ff986e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Big community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fe29ffaf85c4f1981afc3ba44302994\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The compassionate conservatism that those members believe they are displaying seems to have evolved so that, actually, it translates into the big society. One of them let it slip, but I think he got it wrong and called it \u201Cbig community\u201D. The term that your overseas overlords use is \u201Cbig society\u201D when talking about this. But National Party members need to actually have a look at what compassionate conservativism is. We actually have had National Parties in the past in this country that have practised compassionate conservatism. What is happening in this House tonight and in this legislation is not the conservatism of Sid Holland and it is not the conservatism of Keith Holyoake. When those leaders of the National Party sought to remove the State from housing, they looked to sell houses to the individuals who lived in those houses. They did not look to flog them off to their mates in the corporate sector in order to put people under corporate overlords. This is the Cabinet club conservatism, as my colleague Phil Twyford called it, that underwrote the 1990 market rentals that Ruth Richardson put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EDo not kid yourself that this is any form of compassionate conservativism. When compassionate conservativism started to be touted by right-wing parties\u2014it was Bush who first started using it; he abandoned it, pretty much, after 9/11 and just went into plain old \u201Ckick \u2019em in the guts\u201D right-wingism, actually. But compassionate conservativism does not look back to your roots. You are a party that has been better than that\u2014Mr Assistant Speaker, I am sure you are as well. The National Party does have a history that is rooted in some belief in that, but what we are seeing displayed tonight is not that. This is a return to the 1990s and a belief that you can sell State houses off to anyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe started with the fiction that this was legislation to enable State housing to be sold to the community sector in some hope of achieving their big society. Well, the problem that we are seeing here, as we have in many places, is that the key providers in that sector said \u201CYeah, thanks but no thanks.\u201D; they did not believe that State house tenants would be better served under this model than they could be with the Government providing, so they did not want a part of that. And what have we had now? We have had Bill English saying that, yes, we could be seeing some of these being sold to private property developers. The Government has tried to dress this up as something that this is not. This is, pure and simple, a flogging off of our State houses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat else are we seeing? Not only is the Government divesting itself of the ownership of the housing, it is divesting Housing New Zealand of some of the core policy functions and thinking that need to go into this, so that we will no longer see Housing New Zealand having a policy function. We will not have a dedicated part of our Government that tries to put the bits of housing policy together. Instead, we are going to see a continuation of the approach that we have seen, with the functions spread and splintered across the Government, and we will see that it does not have a coherence that has tenants at the centre and the well-being of the tenants at the centre. My colleague Phil Twyford put it very well when he talked about a State-owned version of Barfoot and Thompson and said that we will have a State-owned letting agency, not a Government department that is dedicated to doing what we expect Housing New Zealand to do and to doing what its functions should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThat is a very sad day for New Zealand, because what we used to have in this country is a belief that a core part of the safety net that we provided for our citizens was housing\u2014housing that would mean that people would not have to go homeless. I think what we are going to hear through the course of this debate is examples from all around the country that we can speak of where we have constituents who are not being well served. What is most upsetting for us is that these very same constituents are going to be even worse-served under the changes that we are making here under urgency tonight. There is nothing in this legislation that is going to give back to our tenants. Instead, what we have is an ideological commitment to selling houses off to whoever the right bidder is that the Government can find. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe shortage of housing is getting worse, and other speakers from this side of the House have alluded to the fact that selling houses does not create more houses. I think my colleague Annette King chose to point out that selling them off is not going to magically create more houses any more than passing legislation under urgency, Mr Doocey, will allow for houses to magically appear on the landscape of New Zealand. What we have to have, and what we are not having from this Government, is a proper commitment from the Government to ensuring that New Zealanders are housed\u2014something that we think is a pretty basic role of Government and something that we are committed to doing. Just simply passing the buck on to the community sector, which does not want a bar of it, is not responsible government in this area. Passing the buck and abrogating itself of its responsibility as a Government is not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut what is more galling is where I started: this is a group of people who are trying to kid themselves that this is some kind of compassionate conservatism. This is a return to their 1990 roots, not their roots in the past, in the 1960s and the 1950s, when actually there was a grain of truth in the fact that the National Party in New Zealand did exercise a kind of compassionate conservatism. There was a belief in the role of the State. There was a belief that it needed to do right by New Zealanders. We are not seeing that in this legislation. What we are seeing is a Government that is walking away from one of its core responsibilities, which is providing adequate housing. It is a Government that is out of ideas. It is a Government that is poll driven. What we are seeing here tonight is not going to solve anything. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u002214b8bc54fb26400c8e640a9ffa18f730\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214b8bc54fb26400c8e640a9ffa18f730\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E Given that the members opposite are so keen to talk about the details of this bill, I will simply commend this bill to the House so that we can move to the Committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227f2ee0ea529e44a180a2732ed1d57886\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220124748ef37a4e9bad2fc77a968b2236\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d73d0173ffb4f00ac9b6f41cfa1acc9\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters Act 1992\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00222266065e76224ab682f84a14e0384be8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222266065e76224ab682f84a14e0384be8\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to take a call on this particular bill. I want to say from the very beginning how disappointing it is to see the National Government\u2019s wholesale privatisation agenda when it comes to State housing in New Zealand. I want to talk from experience about this. What does this actually mean in practice? In my electorate of Rimutaka, the National Government decided that it was going to deal with a housing area in P\u014Dmare that had significant problems\u2014Farmer Crescent. What did the Government do? First of all, it booted everybody out. It completely evicted all of the tenants in that area. It left the houses empty, and they got vandalised. Then what did it do? Next, it came along and demolished all of the houses. It demolished all of the houses. Then what did it do after that? Well, of course, the Government hocked off the land to private developers\u2014to private developers\u2014which is exactly the approach of this National Government. It is about making opportunities for private developers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EDid the problems disappear? Did the families who lived in those houses, who were the subjects of many of the social problems, simply disappear? No, they just relocated elsewhere. The problems went with them to the other locations. The Government did not actually deal with the underlying problems and the underlying issues. So what have we seen in P\u014Dmare? Yes, they have got some nice new houses in the area where there was previously a whole lot of State housing. Only a fraction of them are social houses. Only a fraction of them are social houses, and the rest are privately owned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022336ab62cc832452eb721aff71e9f1350\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t that terrible! Shocking!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222e38b76aa604f3eb26e127dc81c5129\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: And what is the problem with that, Bill English asks. The problem with that is that the overall number of social houses is decreasing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e1cda03bf9f4a47b602f30b7a3efde6\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s saying: \u201CIsn\u2019t that terrible!\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223299d713c73d403889ffbc20bed3f037\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: And he is saying: \u201CIsn\u2019t that terrible!\u201D. The overall number of State houses is decreasing. I say to Bill English that I actually like the idea of mixed neighbourhoods. I grew up in one. I grew up in an ex - State house, with a State house next door, a private house on the other side, and a bunch of State houses on our street. It is a great way to grow up as a Kiwi kid. I am fully supportive of that. But I tell you what: we have got to make sure that there is an adequate number of social houses if we are going to change the make-up of neighbourhoods. And that is not what this bill is going to achieve. What it is going to result in is a wholesale sell-off of existing State houses, and there is absolutely\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243fe0d685fef4bd5af3006cd0b93c9ec\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Saying it a thousand times won\u2019t make it true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022678a93e2cab54197b991844ddc801db0\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: OK, look, I will open it up to Tim Macindoe. I will put the same challenge to him that Andrew Little put to John Key and Bill English and the others this afternoon, which they did not take up. Will they guarantee that every one of their new houses that is going to be built will be affordable? It is an open invitation. It is an open invitation right now: will they all be affordable houses that the National Government is going to be building? No one\u2014no one\u2014on the Government benches is willing to make that promise to New Zealanders, because they know that is simply not going to be the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EHere is another example. Will those members guarantee that the number of publicly owned social houses will not decrease? No\u2014no: absolute silence from the Government. So when it comes to the provisions of this bill, it is not willing to guarantee that the number of publicly owned social houses will not decrease. These are families whom we are talking about. These are their homes that we are talking about, and this Government thinks that they should be hocked off\u2014they should be hocked off\u2014and it is not willing to guarantee that the overall number will not be decreased. I think that says an awful lot about the priorities of this current National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eefa79a69f94319b7a1d9d2b6becae7\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what this bill is all about. We are working to increase the provision\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1c22b8ccaf641a697eb6328c12db7e4\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014here we go. So Tim Macindoe is saying that this bill is all about increasing the provision of social housing. Who is going to deliver those houses? Who is going to deliver those houses? Because all of the organisations that Bill English and Paula Bennett and Nick Smith said were going to front up and deliver those houses have said that they are not interested in it; they have said that they do not have the capability to deliver it. So now the Government is bringing a bill before the House that is going to increase the scope for private developers to be involved in this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, what do private developers want out of this? They want to make money. They want to make money out of it, and fair enough. That is their job. That is what private developers do. That is one of the reasons why, over the history of New Zealand, Governments have been actively involved in the building and delivery of social housing in New Zealand, because the Government can do it cheaper and it can provide a higher quality of housing than private developers have done in the past. That is also one of the reasons why many ex - State houses contributed to the provision of affordable housing for first-home buyers. This Government is not interested in that. It is happy to sell them off, but it is not going to replace them. Previously, when Governments have sold off State houses to allow first-home buyers into their first home, they have made sure they have been replaced. Not this National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe saw, under the mother of all Budgets and under the tenure of the Government that took over from that, a massive reduction in the number of State houses in New Zealand. And what was the impact of that? The impact of that was that more and more New Zealanders ended up on waiting lists. And how did this Government deal with that increase in the number of New Zealanders on waiting lists? Well, first of all, it just dropped the bottom two categories off the waiting list altogether. So if they were a priority C or D person on a waiting list, it just cut them off altogether\u2014pretended they no longer existed. Those people are still out there looking for houses, but this Government does not want to know anything about it. This Government is not interested in making sure that there is sufficient provision of social housing for people who cannot afford to buy, and sufficient provision of affordable housing for those who want to get into their first homes. It is looking the other way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt is going to cost someone a million dollars\u2014within a few months it is going to cost a million dollars for someone to buy a home in Auckland, on average. That is an absolute disgrace, and that has happened under the tenure of this National Government. It is simply out of ideas when it comes to dealing with the real issues around housing in New Zealand. It has got no real plan for more affordable housing for first-home buyers, and it is turning its back on those who cannot afford to buy a home and who do need that extra support when it comes to housing. Who pays the cost? It is the children and it is the families who will pay the cost for that. Of the 6,000 people who applied for social housing in the last quarter, 4,000 did not even make it on to the waiting list. They did not even get on the waiting list. Two-thirds of people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229917e80308f543e1b963ce26a919cdee\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Committee is suspended until 9 a.m. tomorrow. N\u014D reira, ka kite an\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015052174830760d8644e949de228f398467bfd000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Friday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ac553b4b6db543e0a0c39e84a8da94d6\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 21 MAY 2015\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225c20423d4c8e4f82a916e270e7a01eac\u0022\u003E(continued on Friday, 22 May 2015)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c171cbbbcbf4abc9859d46e85788ec0\u0022\u003ESocial Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225642ef6f13104881b6eeb88464221f4f\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022787bae032f914fa78ced6451915db9dd\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters Act 1992 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002289fd227c458c4fafbb2f8076f3ddea68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289fd227c458c4fafbb2f8076f3ddea68\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, when the Committee was suspended last night the Committee was debating Part 1. Chris Hipkins had the call and he has 3 minutes 40 seconds remaining, should he wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4ea1dba533b4ec7989c5a39a787ac63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4ea1dba533b4ec7989c5a39a787ac63\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I do indeed wish to continue, Mr Chairperson; I am just getting warmed up. As I was saying last night before I was so rudely interrupted by the suspension, this Government claims that this year\u2019s Budget is sticking with a plan that is working. The real question that New Zealanders will be asking is: working for whom? Whom is that plan working for? Working for the property developers is what this Government is really interested in, not working for the first-home buyers who are struggling to get on the property ladder, not working for the people who live in State housing who are being ignored, shafted, and are having their homes sold from under them by this National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhy is the Government pushing this measure through under Budget urgency? It is pushing it through because it does not want it to have the scrutiny that it really deserves. It does not want all of the social housing providers, who do not want this, to be able to come to a select committee and explain how this will not actually work\u2014how this will actually result in a massive transfer of wealth from the Government sector to the private sector, and it is the housing tenants who are going to pay the cost in the long term. The Government does not want this all to come unravelled through a proper public inquiry\u2014through a select committee inquiry\u2014so it is pushing it through under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhen Government members first mooted the idea that the private sector should have more involvement in State housing, they tried to say: \u201CActually, it\u2019ll be the social sector. It\u2019ll be organisations like the Salvation Army and these sorts of unspecified others who will be involved.\u201D They cannot name one organisation that is actively involved in the social sector at the moment that actually wants this to happen. This is an open invitation to all the Government members over there: name one\u2014name one. Not one\u2014they cannot name one social sector agency that actually wants this to happen and that wants to be involved in these provisions. Simon Bridges points to himself. He is now a social sector agency in his own right. \u201CCaptain Slick\u201D over there has now decided that he is going to become a social sector agency in his own right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis is simply unnecessary. This bill should not be being pushed through under urgency. It deserves proper scrutiny. At the last election the National Party promised New Zealanders that there would be no more asset sales. I did not see the footnote in small print that said: \u201CExcept for all the State houses that we\u2019re going to hock off in a fire sale, up and down the country.\u201D Billions of dollars\u2019 worth of State housing assets is now on the auctioneer\u2019s block, under a National Government that promised New Zealanders it was going to stop asset sales after the election. That was another broken promise in a long litany of broken promises made by this National Government, and that is absolutely, abundantly clear in this Budget. Of course we know it is not going to get back into surplus this year, and probably not next year, either. It is not going to deliver on its promises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt has got no plan to deal with the housing crisis that we have in New Zealand. In a very short space of time, $1 million is going to be the average amount needed to purchase a house in Auckland, and other New Zealanders are suffering because of that. They have higher interest rates around the rest of the country because the Government is not dealing with the housing crisis in Auckland. Even the plan to free up land in Auckland was, of course, a plan that the Labour Government was actioning back in 2008, which the then incoming National Government cancelled\u2014so it is 7 years behind the eight ball. Even then, the Government is not going to guarantee that houses built on that land are going to be affordable houses. It was offered the opportunity multiple times yesterday to give New Zealanders an assurance that those houses would be affordable, and it did not take it because it knows it cannot, because freeing up all that land is not going to benefit first-home buyers; it is going to benefit property developers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002289c3b96d1df04c7488319cdd93cdeba6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289c3b96d1df04c7488319cdd93cdeba6\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E When we get down to the hard end of a debate, that is when we actually get the opportunity to question the Minister, and the Minister can take that chance to answer the questions that we have been posing in the first reading and the second reading. We have one of the up-and-coming Ministers\u2014well, he was an up-and-coming Minister\u2014in the chair this morning, Simon Bridges, and I am sure that he is going to take this debate very seriously. Last night we were told how proud and excited members opposite are about this legislation. They were so proud and excited that they took 1-minute speeches. I think the record was 27 seconds. That is how proud they were. In fact, I think the speech from the member Jono Naylor might have been 27 seconds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EBut, anyway, we are now in urgency debating a bill that is not going to go to the select committee. It is not going to the select committee\u2014for no reason that we know about. There is nothing urgent about this legislation, other than that Mr Doocey from down in the South Island said that if we pass it today, we will get 3,000 homes tomorrow. Well, of course, we all know that that is rubbish. So now is the time for the Minister in the chair to answer the questions that the public would ask if they had the opportunity to appear before the select committee. I would like the Minister to tell me whether he has read the regulatory impact statement of this bill. If he has read the regulatory impact statement, then why are there no reviews or evaluation reports to inform on this bill and on whether the policy given effect by this bill will work? That is what the regulatory impact statement says\u2014that there are no reviews or evaluation reports on this policy. So the Government does not even know whether this policy is going to work, because it did not bother to get an evaluation or a review on the policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe Government has not allowed the public to review or evaluate the policy, because it is passing it under urgency. Why was there no evaluation? Why not do what Sir Peter Gluckman, the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Advisor, constantly tells the Government to do? What does he say? He says that the Government should base its policies on evidence\u2014good evidence\u2014and that good policy comes from good evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6d8346c15014421a39d5da1a9782e8e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Any evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269f9995b49f34f1080cf467bf88450c4\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Any evidence would have been a help\u2014that is true. So why was there no evaluation or review done on this policy before this bill was brought into the House? Minister, we would like an answer on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESecondly, Minister, why did Treasury not provide independent opinion on the impact of this bill? Why did Treasury not provide that independent opinion? From my experience as a Minister, Treasury usually comments on absolutely everything, whether you want it to or not. I can only assume that the Government did not want Treasury to comment on this bill, because the regulatory impact statement says that, no, there was no independent opinion from Treasury. Why not, Minister? Why not do the work to find out whether this policy is going to work for the very people who are affected by it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI think that the members opposite were absolutely stunned. The \u201CC Team\u201D that rolled up here last night was absolutely stunned that there was no evaluation done. Do you know what? They had not read the regulatory impact statement. Not one of them had picked it up off the Table\u2014[Interruption] Had you? Not one of you had read it. So like lambs to the slaughter, they come in here and vote for something when they do not even know how it works. There has been no evaluation done on this policy. Well, that is very, very poor policy making indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EFor my last question, I want to know, Minister, why the Minister concerned wants more powers to make delegated legislation under ministerial direction. My understanding is that there is already power for the Minister, but she is seeking greater powers for greater flexibility to be able to sell off State houses, and all she needs to do is gazette this ministerial direction and present a copy to the House after some sort of consultation. When I look at the consultation that took place on this bill, it took place with people in the community sector who did not know what the agenda was, and it took place back in March, when Bill English was saying \u201CThe Salvation Army are really keen on this policy. They\u2019re going to move on this policy.\u201D But the truth is that they were sold a pup and they are not interested in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00221b15fbee67f4466a8563ff3dc0887f9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b15fbee67f4466a8563ff3dc0887f9a\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E To pick up where my colleague Annette King left off, not only were those providers sold a pup but also the whole of New Zealand was. This policy is about nothing more than finishing off the job of privatising and destroying social housing in New Zealand. That is the job that the National Party decided to kick off in the 1990s. Last night Kevin Hague said that he could picture the clothes and the colours of the 1990s\u2014the pastels and the big hair of the 1990s. Kevin might even have had hair in the 1990s, who knows? Actually, no, he did not\u2014he did not have hair in the 1990s, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt was in the 1990s that the National Party began its ideological crusade against social housing, and that is what this bill carries on. Part 1 of this bill is all about finishing the job that National started in the 1990s. There were 13,000 State houses sold off in the 1990s. Every member of this House who is an electorate MP will say, if they are honest, that one of the biggest issues that comes through the door of their electorate office is people who cannot find housing. In my office, we used to call it the \u201CFriday, 4.30 p.m.\u201D problem, where people would come in on a Friday afternoon with nowhere to live and nowhere to sleep on the weekend. They do not go to the National Party offices because they do not get any response. They come to our offices, and we work hard with the social housing providers to find them somewhere to live. This bill is a charter for the Government to abrogate its responsibility for social housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhat is more fundamental in our society than the need for shelter\u2014the basic right of people for shelter? In our society, if people cannot find shelter themselves\u2014if people cannot afford to house themselves\u2014it falls to the Government to ask how it will make sure that shelter is provided. The National Government\u2019s response to that is this bill. It throws away the Government\u2019s accountability, it throws away its responsibility, and it pushes that on to the social housing sector. As Annette King said, the social housing sector has looked at this policy and has said no. It has said: \u201CWe cannot do this. If you want us to be the people who take on the role that the National Government does not want any more, then give us some money to do that. Give us some money to be able to provide that housing.\u201D But that is not National\u2019s agenda here. National\u2019s agenda here is to push the problem on to other people, to cut the funding as it goes along, and then to blame those people for the situation that they find themselves in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe extraordinary thing about this legislation, in Part 1, is the power that the Minister gains from it to enter into \u201Cflexible purchasing arrangements\u201D. What a form of doublespeak. What a form of doublespeak from the National Party. The flexible purchasing arrangements are to allow the Minister to hock this stuff off to property developers\u2014to the people who funded the National Party\u2019s election campaign last year. [Interruption] That is right. This is about making sure that there is a sweetheart deal possible between the Minister and property developers. Hock it off at a cheap price\u2014make it try to work. But the fundamentals of this policy are deeply, deeply flawed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EYou know, we have housing Ministers\u2014and goodness, there are tonnes of them in the National Party now\u2014who cannot actually come up with a decent policy. There are tonnes of them. We have housing Ministers telling us that the problem with the social housing stock is that it is poorly configured and in the wrong place, and that the solution to this is to sell the poorly configured housing in the wrong place to somebody else\u2014and somehow that will solve the problem. Somehow the problem is solved by shifting it on to somebody else. How typical it is of the National Government to solve a problem by shifting it on to someone else and blaming them for not sorting it out. That is what Part 1 of this bill is fundamentally about. It is about a National Government with no real plan for how to make the lives of people in social housing better, and it would rather flick the problem off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo the questions for the Minister in the chair, Simon Bridges, are important. Why are these flexible purchasing arrangements being put in place now when there are no social housing providers who want to buy into this scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a130aa1616843eaa300475015ce51d5\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s only for the developers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222983dc9b2b9e4a34b50025021a353cd1\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: So it can only be for the developers. The question that Simon Bridges needs to get up off his chuff and answer right now is: why is National pushing this policy through Parliament today when there are no social housing providers who want to take this up? It is an ideological experiment. This bill\u2014Part 1\u2014should have been scrutinised by a select committee. It should have gone to a select committee so that social housing providers and members of the public could have at least tried to turn this pig\u2019s ear into something useful, but that opportunity was not granted to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to make another point about what Part 1 does. What Part 1 does is finally kill off Housing New Zealand\u2019s role as a social housing provider. After more than 7 years National has come in and said: \u201CHousing New Zealand, you are a landlord. That\u2019s it. Plain and simple.\u201D In fact, this bill goes even further. This bill takes it from landlord to letting agency. That is what this bill does. Once upon a time Housing New Zealand played a role in understanding the needs of its tenants. How many electorate MPs in this House, and list MPs as well, have Housing New Zealand tenants coming into their offices because Housing New Zealand is no longer there to help support them in their lives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI have got a question for the Minister. In this environment, where all these problems are being shoved away, down the road here on The Terrace, in my electorate, are the Gordon Wilson Flats. They have been empty for 2\u00BD years. What is happening for social housing in a community like Wellington City? Wellington Central is a wealthy electorate on average, but when you look at the lives of the people who got thrown out of the Gordon Wilson Flats, their lives are not getting better. They need support from a housing provider that looks at their broader social needs. Housing New Zealand used to make policy about housing\u2014about the fact that we might actually need a plan for housing in New Zealand and that we might actually need to think about the future needs of those who live in our social housing. But Part 1 of this bill says that that is not the Government\u2019s responsibility any more. So not only is it outsourcing the provision of social housing but it is also outsourcing the policy for social housing. It is saying that Housing New Zealand has got no role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EMaybe they will not be saying this, actually, because they appear to be mute today. But perhaps at some point a National Party member might get up and say \u201CNo, he\u2019s got it all wrong. It is MSD who is doing housing policy now.\u201D Well, good luck finding someone in the Ministry of Social Development whom you can talk to about social housing policy. Good luck finding that distributed among the thousands of other tasks that people in the ministry have got. If we are serious about the importance of providing shelter to our most vulnerable citizens, then we would have an agency whose job it is to focus on that. Instead, what this bill will do is take that away completely from Housing New Zealand and turn it, as my colleague Phil Twyford said last night, into the public equivalent of Barfoot and Thompson\u2014a real estate agent, a letting firm. That is not good enough. That is not what a responsible Government does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhat a responsible Government does is take seriously its responsibilities to the most vulnerable New Zealanders. Just because the Government and Bill English, like some kind of Southland version of Rip Van Winkle, have woken up to the problem of inequality and poverty overnight, after 7 years, does not mean that the National Party has got a plan to lift people out of poverty. It does not mean that the National Party has got a plan to ensure that we reduce inequality\u2014for it to suddenly decide, after 7 years of slumber, to do something in this area. Actually, this bill is much more instructive about where the National Party is at when it comes to the most vulnerable New Zealanders than a small amount of money going into some families\u2019 bank accounts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis bill shows that the ideological agenda of the National Party is not over\u2014it is not over. In fact, this finishes off one part of it and says that social housing is somebody else\u2019s problem. Well, on this side of the Chamber, we think that the shelter of our most vulnerable citizens is a core responsibility of the State. As well as its own provision of social housing, it is a core responsibility of the State to work with the other people who are providing social housing, not to shove the problem on to them with inadequate funding. This bill thoroughly undermines what we have come to believe is important about social housing. Nothing has stuck in my craw more in 7 years than being lectured by National Party members about State housing and the legacy of Michael Joseph Savage and Peter Fraser. This bill is a slap in the face for the legacy of social housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb28f1f38230438892e70fe89e05e9a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb28f1f38230438892e70fe89e05e9a0\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E If you listened to the Labour Party members you would think this bill was some kind of wildebeest Gene Simmons - like monstrosity coming to get you, with tongue flapping in the wind. Well, actually, Andrew Little might like that and we have heard a lot of rhetoric from Grant Robertson on this bill\u2014rather better, actually, I might say than his leader yesterday, but be that as it may. So what is this monstrosity we have heard about? What is it doing? Where is the secret agenda? Where is the ideology? Well, it is just this. We see this in the preface: more flexible and innovative social housing\u2014more flexible and innovative social housing. So for all the talk and all the, frankly, scaremongering, we have got from the deputy leader of the Labour Party, that is what this is. I, for one, think that is a great thing. I was with Paula Bennett and Todd Muller in Tauranga just last week, looking at the kind of thing this bill will enable more of. It is really, really exciting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225afc309a6a3f40e6b064d82bcaac68f9\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah? Tell us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022182e27518d2e45c4a6e01ab32fddf14a\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I will tell the member Ruth Dyson. She wants to know. Two old rundown State houses in a suburb in my electorate are going to become five new brick, I think, warmer, drier houses that will be fit for purpose for people and that people will really want to live in. In that area it will not give just those people living in those houses a lift but it will give the entire area a lift, and that has got to be good for the people in those houses and the people in that suburb and, actually, in the wider community. Another one we went to on the same day was eight flats\u2014just to give a bit of detail\u2014a little bit behind Tauranga Hospital. Eight flats\u2014they are all right. There was nothing particularly wrong with them. They have become, with the help of the Tauranga Housing Community Trust, 16 brick and tile homes that the people in those homes are really proud to live in. They are warmer, they are drier, they are newer\u2014they are just better. And there are more of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EHere is what this bill does. It allows for more of that\u2014for the flexibility and for the innovative approaches to that that ensure that we will see more of that in the Taurangas, in the Invercargills, and throughout New Zealand. And here is the thing: this is winding the Opposition up. This is winding the Opposition up. Why is that? Because it knows that what I am saying is true. It knows that for 9 years under Labour, under Ruth Dyson and under Annette King\u2014I cannot blame Phil Twyford; he was not in Parliament\u2014those houses got older. They got more decrepit. They had problems. And, actually, we are going to see the solutions here. Annette King asked: \u201CWell, who else is going to do this?\u201D and \u201CWho actually wants this?\u201D. Well, we have seen on TV already that Accessible Properties says it wants to see it and the old IHC\u2014a really big entity in this space\u2014wants to see this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson says: \u201COh, this is all ideology. That\u2019s all this is; it is all ideology.\u201D Well, if it is, it is simply that, actually, we think there is room for more flexible approaches to this. We think there is room for more innovation. We do not think Wellington has all the answers, unlike Grant Robertson, representing Wellington Central bureaucrats. We think there is room for warmer, drier, more fit-for-purpose homes\u2014actually, more homes, in many cases, going from three or four-bedroom homes with one person living in them to what oftentimes they actually want: more homes that sometimes are smaller and sometimes are bigger and that meet the needs on the ground. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe know on this side of the House that Wellington does not always have the best answers and that, actually, in the Taurangas and the Invercargills where we are trialling this sort of approach already, it can be done better. There are people on the ground who actually know\u2014it is radical; I know that it is radical\u2014what is best for people there who are on the spot and who know and care about those communities, rather than, as Annette King used to do it, just someone in Wellington sitting at a desktop thinking about this and saying: \u201CHmm, maybe this\u2019ll be nice. No, that looks fine.\u201D This approach will see more innovative, flexible approaches on the ground throughout the provinces of New Zealand. It is a really good set of solutions for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022efb6298045064b2ea91b72dd211a8a3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efb6298045064b2ea91b72dd211a8a3e\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a brief call in the Committee stage of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. I would just like to acknowledge that it is Pink Shirt Day today, and I am hoping that this House will take a break from bullying. It would be a really nice thing to have a day without any personal abuse within this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI want now to speak specifically to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Simon Bridges, and to ask him some questions, because we have just heard from the Minister about flexibility and innovation. That was pretty much the entire content of his speech\u2014that I heard. It seemed to echo the speeches that we heard in the first and second readings last night, in the 20-second speeches from members of the Government. I would say that was probably the average length of the speeches, in which they said that this legislation provides flexibility and innovation. Where is the detail, people? This is a bill going through under urgency, with no public scrutiny and with no Treasury input on the financial consequences of this bill. We are being told that it provides flexibility and innovation. Where? In what situations? Why? What is the problem that this legislation is trying to solve? We are not even being told that amount of detail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe documents that I am looking at in front of me are saying that it will give the agency a new ability to negotiate prices with providers in order to cover diverse situations, including, but not limited to, tenants\u2019 needs resulting in higher or lower tenancy management costs. Tell us what that means in practice, because we also heard from the Minister last night, in one tiny snippet of detail, that this is about, say, if the tenants have disability needs; that this will enable contracts that are able to help housing providers deal with their wider needs\u2014this wraparound service that we hear so much about. Well, that is something I would like to support, but my understanding is that there is the ability to do that through other contracting provisions. Why are the needs around disability needs being provided through housing? Please explain it to us. If you have got a good reason for it, then we may support it, but explain it. At least give the public credit by explaining what this is even about and the reason for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would also like to say that the Minister said last night, in another tiny snippet of detail that may help us to understand this legislation, that it also provides Housing New Zealand with more flexibility in contracting and the ability to fund Housing New Zealand. I do not have the housing portfolio for the Greens, but I have got a little bit of an understanding of housing and of some of the ways that the system works\u2014possibly more than your average New Zealander. I still do not understand that. I am not sure why we need Housing New Zealand to be able to get more flexible arrangements for the funding of its services. Could you explain that to us?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EMinister, could you also please explain to us why we are separating out and preventing Housing New Zealand from providing policy advice to the Minister. Why are we stopping the ministry, which has the experience and the relationship with the people in the community, from feeding any learning it has back to the Minister in order to inform policy making? Why? I would like some reasons. I would like the public to be able to at least make an informed decision about their view of this bill, more than just the rhetoric of telling us that it is about flexibility and innovation. They are words, and without any substance, they have very little meaning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u002275c807f0e92b4c5595890f023eccdd5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275c807f0e92b4c5595890f023eccdd5a\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I stand on behalf of New Zealand First to take a short call on this new piece of legislation called the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill, which to me is quite ironic, really, particularly when we talk about the flexibility that I think this bill is actually trying to address, and that is the flexibility of the socially impoverished people of this country being flexibly rammed around corporations in new, innovative ways, which are the words that I keep hearing from Simon Bridges about flexibility and innovation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThat is what we think of this Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill, which has been pushed down at such great speed that we do not actually have time to consult with the public to find out what the real, serious concerns are. We are not hearing anybody out there screaming from the rooftops saying this is a great idea. New Zealand has had over 100 years\u2014100 years\u2014of standing up for those people in need with social housing. I do not think there is anybody in this room who does not know somebody who has been brought up in a State home. In fact, the Prime Minister himself got brought up in a State home. Many of us have had those same privileges\u2014I will call it a privilege\u2014but what is happening here is that this service is being packaged up, sold off, and given to the friends of the National Party so that they can make some profit out of this situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ENational is saying that this is good. For whom? It is good for the corporations and the big companies that are actually putting this deal together, but it is not good for the people who seriously, genuinely need State homes and support from the Government. This is certainly not something that should be packaged up and given out to people who are designed to make money whichever way they can. This is where the Government has got a legal and moral obligation to stand up for those people and their rights, to ensure that they get sufficient housing support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThis bill is being pushed through very, very quickly. Mr Bridges spoke about warmer, drier, and more fit for purpose homes. But if the commercial sector is going to be doing this, they are going to be creating more expensive homes. If you were truly interested in looking after people, to get them into their first homes, then you would put something in this legislation to make sure that those homes stayed available and affordable for the people who need them the most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThis legislation is not going to be good for New Zealanders. We do not see the benefits at all. Part 1 is all about taking away those rights of New Zealanders to have a comfortable position in their local areas. We definitely do not support it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00221b84361a6ede4dff88f40242c8cc8b05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b84361a6ede4dff88f40242c8cc8b05\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E If there was ever any doubt about the Hon Simon Bridges, the contribution that he has just made in the House puts to rest any doubt that he has well and truly drunk the Kool-Aid. He got up and made, actually, not a very good defence of the Government\u2019s policy on social housing. He showed a lack of understanding of the detail, and really just kind of parroted the most superficial lines that he gets from Paula Bennett about what is really going on with this social housing policy. Here is the big lie. Here is the big lie about National\u2019s social housing policy. National wants the country to believe that it is all about making homes warm and dry, that it is about innovation, and that it is about giving power to the community. We heard Simon Bridges say that local communities can always do it better than someone in Wellington making all the decisions. So this legislation is dressed up in the language of empowerment of community and of modernising the housing stock. It is none of those things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ELet us talk about what is really going on here. In November last year Bill English was, basically, caught candidly telling the truth to the New Zealand Herald when he said that the purpose of this policy is simply to get rid of State houses off the Government\u2019s books. He thinks it is a lazy use of capital for the Government even to own housing. He wants someone else to own the houses. He does not care who. He said that on the record. He said: \u201CWe can sell them to anyone. It could be the Salvation Army, it could be property developers.\u201D He does not care whom the Government sells the houses to. He simply wants to get the Government out of the business of owning houses. The model that the National Party wants to move to is one where anybody can own the houses and the State will simply pay a direct subsidy into the pockets of the landlords. It is the accommodation supplement on steroids. It is exactly what happened in Britain under Margaret Thatcher and in countless other countries around the Western World.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EBill English likes to get up in this House and say: \u201CWe\u2019re old-fashioned in New Zealand. It\u2019s time we caught up with the rest of the world.\u201D Well, I will tell you, Mr Chairman, what has happened in much of the Western World in the last 20 years. The State, under right-wing Governments, has retreated from the provision of social housing for the most vulnerable citizens in society and has handed that job over to the market. It is rolling back the lessons that were learnt all around the world during the 20th century\u2014that the market alone will never deliver a sufficient quantity of decent housing for society\u2019s most vulnerable citizens. That is what this Government is doing, and it has said it. Nick Smith has said it and his officials have said it. The point of this \u201Cideological burp\u201D\u2014as Annette King has described this policy\u2014is to try to create an artificial market in social housing. As Grant Robertson said, this is Bill English going back to the 1990s when National introduced market rents and flogged off 13,000 State houses, which ended up in the hands of property developers and private landlords. This is simply a continuation of that neo-liberal quest of Bill English to get the Government out of the business of providing social housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ERather than listening to the mealy-mouthed platitudes of Paula Bennett, we can actually look at the National Government\u2019s behaviour, to judge whether it is, in fact, seriously interested in providing more decent housing for New Zealand\u2019s most vulnerable people. Let us look at what it has actually done rather than listen to its rhetoric. Since National has been in Government, it has stripped Housing New Zealand of its core functions. It is now, as we have been saying, simply a State-owned version of Barfoot and Thompson. It is no more than a letting agency, and this bill takes away one of the last vestigial functions of Housing New Zealand\u2014that is, its ability to do research, to evaluate its programmes, and to advise the Government of the day on social housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ENational has sold down housing all over the country. In fact, mostly what it is doing is shifting State houses out of regional New Zealand and into the north. It is taking State houses away from Dunedin, away from Gisborne, and away from Palmerston North, and it is stripping out a valuable social and economic asset from regional New Zealand. It is not building any new State houses. More than anything, that gives the lie to the rhetoric of Paula Bennett and Bill English. In the middle of a housing crisis\u2014in the middle of a housing shortage\u2014when people are living in cars and garages, it is not doing the obvious thing, which is increase the supply of housing and build more houses. In the middle of a housing crisis, the National Government is using Housing New Zealand as a cash cow. It has taken half a billion dollars in dividends out of our country\u2019s main social housing agency, and that money has gone straight back into the consolidated account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWhen Bill English was asked \u201CWhat are you going to do with the proceeds from the sale of State houses? Are you going to build more houses with them?\u201D, he said: \u201CNo, why would we do that? We don\u2019t want more State houses. What\u2019s the point?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f40c5646729c46af955fa54284f9af5a\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: He used to say that. He said that until 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238f11eb842bc431a804f8cea8db0eb01\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Yes, he did, and then he changed his tune.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe Government has also tightened the eligibility criteria. It is so tight that even the poorest people in this country cannot even get on the priority waiting list for Housing New Zealand. Every MP on this side of the House who represents a community knows that there is massive unmet social need, that there is hardship, and that there is poverty in our communities. People cannot even get in the door, because they have to ring an 0800 number. And, worse than that, they have no prospect of getting on the Housing New Zealand waiting list, because this Government has tightened the eligibility criteria in a cynical, cynical move, simply to cut the waiting lists. The effect of that policy is that there are 3,000 vacant State houses sitting around this country while people are languishing in expensive cold, damp substandard rentals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThere are thousands of vacant State houses, and that completely gives the lie to Paula Bennett\u2019s claim that this Government is about housing more people and looking after the tenants. It is a manufactured crisis, where the Government is leaving dozens and dozens of empty State houses sitting boarded up and attracting graffiti in regional centres all around New Zealand, and that is the excuse that it uses for then selling off those houses. We know that Housing New Zealand has been offloading these State houses all around New Zealand\u2014in every regional centre, town, and city around this country\u2014at significantly below their Government value. It is flicking them off with no regard for the taxpayer\u2019s value and is selling them straight into the hands of property developers and private landlords. That is what this Government is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt has subjected hundreds of tenants, including families with young children, the elderly, and the disabled, to needless anxiety and stress, notwithstanding the fact that Nick Smith stood in this House 4 years ago and promised that he would not do that. The Government broke that promise. It is throwing people out on the street because they have committed the crime of earning enough to pay a market rent while living in State housing. These are the policies on social housing that the National Government is implementing. They are destroying the dream in this country that people should be able to have a decent roof over their heads, no matter how much they earn. Paula Bennett and John Key stand in this House, and I do not know how they can do it\u2014how they can stand up with a straight face\u2014to dismantle and dismember the very system of social support that gave them a decent start in their lives. It was OK for the taxpayer to give John Key and his mother a decent house in Christchurch in the 1960s, which gave him a start in life, but now, apparently, according to the National Party, State house tenants are the undeserving poor. Government members demonise them; they parody State house tenants. Nick Smith gets up and says that there are Mercedes Benzes parked out the front of State houses. That is the political cover that the National Party uses to destroy the system of State housing in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis bill gives flexible purchasing arrangements. What a euphemism. It gives the Minister wide discretionary powers to do sweetheart deals with property developers so that the Government can flick off billions of dollars of State houses. It does not care whom it sells them to; it wants to get rid of them by hook or by crook. The current arrangements that the Government has, where it can pay an income-related rent subsidy\u2014the difference between a market rent and a social rent\u2014that is what gets paid to Housing New Zealand. The Government has not been able to sell off these houses to the Methodist Mission, the Salvation Army, or anybody else. This bill is its \u201Cget out of jail free\u201D card. It enables the Government to flick off those houses and do sweetheart deals with property developers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea47cbc9d9a744c58adfaf00a0e12ebb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea47cbc9d9a744c58adfaf00a0e12ebb\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take a short call on behalf of New Zealand First to strongly oppose the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. I have to congratulate Bill English. It has taken him 20 years to get to a place, through incremental changes, with dots on a page, that the National Party has been trying to get to since the 1990s, and that is to completely dismantle Housing New Zealand Corporation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWhat will be left once the advice issues get handed over to the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment? And what does the ministry know about actual social housing? Is this another situation where \u201CMr Fix-it\u201D is going to take over and stuff it up? Is that what this is about? Is this really a partnership between Paula Bennett and Stephen Joyce that the country should be worried about, going on into the future through the next election, perhaps?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWhat are we doing, through this bill, in taking away the advisory capacity from Housing New Zealand Corporation and placing it with the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2014business, innovation, and employment? How interesting, because suddenly the rhetoric is again around human beings being productive units. In this one, with the housing of those human beings, that is now all about being a business. This is a continuation, to give National its credit, of the spin about \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D, as opposed to thinking about it as \u201CFamily New Zealand\u201D. That is where New Zealand First is coming from. This is about \u201CFamily New Zealand\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWe find it interesting because whenever New Zealand First says that with immigration we should possibly be encouraging people to spread out throughout the country, the answer from the Government benches is \u201CYou can\u2019t tell people where to live.\u201D, but that is exactly what the Government intends to do with regard to social housing. That is exactly what it intends to do. So apparently you cannot ask a new settler to spread out around the country and enjoy some of the benefits of regional New Zealand, but if you are a poor New Zealander you can. If you are a poor New Zealander, the Government can actually decide where you will live because it is not going to provide you with any housing in an area where it has decided it is not going to do any regeneration around employment. The Government has decided that it is going to suck everybody into the main centres because\u2014business as usual\u2014it is \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D as opposed to \u201CFamily New Zealand\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo that is one reason why New Zealand First will strongly oppose this bill. The other reason is that it is just an out and out sell-off. You have got to hand it to the people whom that Government pays to market the words inside their press releases\u2014I hope that the taxpayers are not paying all the media bill for the National Party over there, but you have got to hand it to whomever it is paying. They know how to spin the English language\u2014that is for sure. They know how to take what is a bitter pill and gloss it up in some sugar coating and then feed it to the New Zealand public with words like \u201Cflexible\u201D, with other words like \u201Cchoice\u201D, for example. Apparently, if you are rich in New Zealand, you can have choice in New Zealand, but if you are poor in New Zealand, the Government will use that word to beat you up. That is the reality of what is happening here today, and it is happening with every single piece of legislation that this Government is forcing through at this time under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe other thing that we find very interesting is the situation where what we are really talking about is that social contract that New Zealanders believed in\u2014or the majority of New Zealanders believed in\u2014from the 1960s. Instead of actually saying that we are going to send this off to private business now\u2014and it will be private business; the NGOs do not have the capacity\u2014the Government will create what will appear to look like an NGO, but at the end of the day it will be private business that will buy these houses. It will be private business that will on-sell these houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that this is being pushed through under urgency. I wonder whether it will be pushed through this quickly prior to 2017 because there just might be the off chance of a change of Government in 2017, and there just might be the off chance that there will be new legislation not allowing non-resident or non - New Zealand citizens to buy housing properties. But that legislation, under current free-trade agreements, cannot be put through retrospectively, so it cannot affect anybody who has already bought huge numbers of rental properties in New Zealand. So this piece of legislation, moving very quickly, creates another organisation into which these houses will all be placed, and then they can be on-sold to non - New Zealand residents. We find it highly suspicious. We will be opposing the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00229aef5ec290ba49389030878ae702bb68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229aef5ec290ba49389030878ae702bb68\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on this bill. I want to challenge members opposite who have read their economic textbooks\u2014and I believe there are many. I can see faces across the Chamber that I have heard preaching on the benefits of sound economics. Indeed, I guess I am talking particularly to those\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261669ba7e2034b33ae15321a68fbebb2\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Thatcherism 101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc5e507906164618ba5b7b54ca7794c1\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes, interested in Thatcherism 101\u2014who sleep with Hayek under their pillow, those who have to run a spray mister at night in their room lest they spontaneously combust\u2014the really dry ones; the really, really dry ones. Even they will have heard of market failure. Market failure is something they might not want to acknowledge. They might not want to acknowledge it, but it is something they, in their heart of hearts, know exists. They know that we have State housing provided in this country so that even those who struggle every day have a backstop, have security, and have a safe place to raise their children, and that is for the benefit of future generations beyond just today. Those who are walking the tightrope of poverty know that they have underneath them a safety net provided by a sound State housing system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EAs we have heard from many members contributing today, that safety net has been taken away by this Government. It is no longer interested in addressing that market failure. It wants to pretend that it does not exist. Well, in my experience it does still exist. I can think of very recent examples, a couple of which I would like to outline today. These examples are poignant to this bill because these are people who would like to ensure that they stay in State housing because of their experience of going into the private housing market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe first story I want to tell is of a family that I visited during my home visits. They live in a house that meets their needs, roughly. It is a house with the right number of bedrooms. It is within a reasonable proximity of other family members and therefore they can share the care of children and grandchildren. But when I went to visit this family, the house was rundown. It was cold. It is a private rental. They want to be on the State housing list. They used to be on the State housing list, but they got bumped off. They got told they could have a private rental. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI went into that house, and I was horrified. It is a house I had visited many times as a student. It was pretty rundown then, but now it has holes in the wall, it has no insulation, and it has young children living in it. They have runny noses. They have tears in their eyes. I do not want to be too emotive about this, but these are children who are going to develop preventable diseases through their childhoods, and we as taxpayers will end up bearing the cost of that for their whole lives\u2014and they, and their wider family, will end up bearing the cost of that for their whole lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI sought to intervene on behalf of this family\u2014in fact, they asked me to intervene. They asked me to represent their cause because their landlord would not listen. They want, simply, some insulation, for which there are subsidy schemes. They want the holes in the wall repaired. But what happened when I did seek to intervene, when my office sought to go alongside them to meet their landlord, was that their landlord said no. He said they may not bring a representative with them to that discussion; if they did, they risked being turfed out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThat is the kind of bullying that can exist in the private market, where the need is so great\u2014is so great\u2014where there is so much unmet need for social housing that private landlords can exploit the system. A good State housing, social housing, provider ensures that those private landlords are kept honest and that they do have to meet basic needs, because they otherwise cannot compete in the market. But that situation currently does not exist, at least not in Dunedin, where I live. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI have heard, just yesterday, of another case where there is a Dunedin family living in a State house that has just had its fire escape removed. And they have been told it is not coming back. It is the second case I have heard of in the last fortnight, where a fire escape has been removed from the second story of a building that children sleep in and is not coming back. That is emblematic, to me, of what is going on in the social housing sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Government is physically\u2014actually physically\u2014dismantling the State houses that provide care and security for the most vulnerable citizens in our society. And here we have, in this bill, an attempt to flog these State houses off. These examples point in that direction, and, of course, the State housing sales in Dunedin will continue. We have seen many come on to the market. Many are currently vacant in Dunedin, despite the need, despite the families who come through my door every week and despite the families who come through my colleague Clare Curran\u2019s door every week in Dunedin. Those houses are kept vacant because of the criteria the Government applies. It says the need is not great enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EHow great does the need have to be? How great does the need have to be? Surely when there are children in private rental accommodations getting preventable diseases, the need is great enough to want to provide State housing. Yet Minister Smith has previously released papers saying that the Government expects that there will no longer be the need for the 1,500 State houses in Dunedin. It is expecting the need to go down to 1,000 State houses, and it is selling them off now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government determined to get out of the social housing sector, determined to wash its hands of the social problems it is creating by not meeting that market failure. This will have very long-term consequences for New Zealand. That is why we on this side of the House will continue to vigorously oppose this bill at every stage. We note that the public have not been invited to make submissions on this bill, and I think that that is shameful and very telling of the Government\u2019s agenda here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI doubt that we will hear much from the members on the other side during the debate. I would like to be proven wrong. I would like them to stand up and tell me that, in their heart of hearts, they do not think this market failure is going to hurt future families. I would love for them to get up and speak to it, but, actually, I suspect they want to see this bill through the House as fast as it will go, because they do not care about these people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that does not care about these people. It is shameful. They may go to sleep with spray misters in their rooms\u2014they are expensive spray misters that not everyone can afford, I am sure\u2014and they may to sleep with Hayek under their pillows, but they should not sleep easily at night while knowing that they are doing away with these protections for our most vulnerable. These protections ensure that private providers are kept honest and must meet a certain minimum standard. This dismantling of our State housing sector cannot be allowed to continue. We will vigorously oppose this bill at every stage of its passage through this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022de5ca6b78c1a465c9875814a273ea987\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de5ca6b78c1a465c9875814a273ea987\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Perhaps I should not be naive after the length of time I have had in this House, but I really hoped, on behalf of my constituents and the people in my city, that we would have seen a Budget that confronted some of the pressing social problems that we are dealing with at the moment. I really hoped that today, under urgency, we would be working across the House together on legislation that would make a difference. Well, that was naive, was it not? It was naive, because what we have seen in this debate and from this Minister in his contribution today is nothing more than double-speak and spin. Talk about more flexible and innovative social housing\u2014how does this bill create that, Minister? This is not about more innovative approaches. This is code for privatisation and opting out of the social responsibility that any Government has to make sure that people have stable, decent homes where they can raise their kids in security and in warm and healthy housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EEighty years ago this year, men and women sat in this House and debated legislation that did just that. We set up State housing because that was the guarantee that the lowest-income people in the country, the most vulnerable people in the country, could still aspire to provide their kids with a decent home and a decent start in life. The Prime Minister should know that. That is how he got his start. I am proud that it was a Labour Government that gave his family help when they needed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EBut what have we got now? We have a Government that is ideologically driven, which now just wants to privatise State housing and opt out. I talked about double-speak and Orwellian language. Take this statement that the Minister put out in relation to this legislation: this package was about supporting moves to housing independence. Independence is a wonderful thing, is it not? What was she really saying? She was talking about 3,000 eviction notices that will be given this year to those people who might have just got their chin above the rising level of the cost of living in housing, and now they are out on the street and they are trying to find alternatives for their family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ETalking about, as the Minister did, more flexible and innovative social housing is simply to disguise a Government that has given up, that is opting out of its social responsibility, and that now wants to give these houses not to an organisation like the Salvation Army, as it had promised before, but to property investors and developers that do not have the well-being of the poor, the vulnerable, and the low-income people of this country at heart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to ask the Minister this question: what is there in this legislation that requires urgency today? What is it? What aspect requires us to rush through this Committee today, without the scrutiny of a select committee, the provisions in this bill? I have read it backwards and forwards, Minister, and there is nothing there that requires urgency. Do you know why we are doing this under urgency? It is because this Government does not want to subject its superficial legislation to the scrutiny of the public through a select committee. That is why we have got it here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWhat evaluation has been done? The Government is about to pass over the fundamental responsibility of providing social housing from an organisation that has had decades of experience and the flexibility of providing housing where and when it is needed. It is going to pass it over to the private sector. So I asked the Minister for Social Housing, the Hon Paula Bennett, this question under an Official Information Act request: what analysis has been done of the benefits or disadvantages of social housing being provided by NGOs\u2014because I thought it was NGOs, not the private sector, when I wrote the request\u2014rather than through Housing New Zealand? Listen to this reply: \u201CYour request for analysis on the benefits or disadvantages of social housing being provided by NGOs rather than through Housing New Zealand is refused under section 18(e) of the Official Information Act as this information does not exist.\u201D Do you know what this answer says? It says that we have got a bill before the Committee that will privatise State housing, and no analysis has been done by the Government of the implications and the consequences of what it is rushing through this Committee without the benefit of scrutiny by a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIf you have any doubts about that, just have a look at the departmental statement that accompanies this legislation, because it confirms that there is no evaluation and that not even Treasury has commented on this proposal. This proposal is not a serious governmental proposal; it is an ideological proposal by a Government that pretends it is at the centre and throws a few coins to the poor when it suits it politically to do so, but at the same time it is undermining the ability of our community and our Government to provide people with a fundamental housing need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI want to know from the Minister what this will do to increase the supply of social housing. When I looked at the figures, Minister, I saw that this Government has not increased Housing New Zealand homes; it has cut them by 1,600\u20141,600 homes\u2014in the last 3 years. It slashed it. Now it wants to give away another couple of thousand houses to the private sector without knowing what is going to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EAnd what is happening to our people on the ground who could be helped by this legislation? Our people on the ground are paying rents that have risen by $1,300 on average in the last year\u2014$25 a week. It is an interesting figure, that $25 a week, is it not? If you are a beneficiary it is gone already. It is gone on rent increases. But, actually, it is not $25 a week. Read the fine print\u2014if you are in a State house, a quarter of that goes anyway. So $6.25 goes on increased rent for your State house. It is not $25 a week for them; it is about $18 or $19. If you are in the private sector, your accommodation supplement is cut. So it is a case of giving on the one hand and taking on the other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EBut going back to this legislation, nothing in this bill helps those people whose rents are going up at six times the rate of overall inflation each year. There is a crisis of affordability for people to be able to get into homes, and this bill does nothing at all about that. Actually, think about the people at the bottom of the heap. Who are they competing with now? They are competing with 40 percent of the population who today have no chance of homeownership. Do you know what has happened to house prices in Auckland? They have gone up by 15 percent, $100,000, in the last year alone\u2014$100,000. What pressure does that put on rent? What pressure does that put on ordinary hard-working New Zealanders who actually want to buy their own home but cannot and are now forced into the rental market and can out-compete the people at the bottom, who previously at least could have looked to Housing New Zealand to provide them with housing security?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThere is a crisis in housing affordability in this country. Once upon a time we could guarantee that an activist State would do something about that. Is this bill going to increase social housing by one house? The answer is no. The answer is no; it is likely to further reduce it. The Government is opting out of its responsibility at the very time it should be stepping up to its responsibility. If we want kids to get a good education, if we want healthy kids, that starts in the home and it starts with having a secure, stable home and a warm and healthy home. Traditionally, a Government would say that Housing New Zealand had that responsibility. Housing New Zealand, through one piece of legislation after the other, has had its role and its responsibility cut back. With this bill it is not even going to be able to provide housing advice. Why would it waste it\u2019s time for a Government that has never listened to the advice? I know the Housing New Zealand people who provide the homes. I know the people in Work and Income who now allocate them. If the Minister went out from his ivory tower and listened to those people, he would understand that there is a crisis, and he would equally understand that there is nothing in this legislation that will go one iota towards resolving that crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThis Budget was a failure, and this bill is a failure, in terms of actually making a difference for a better New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002216fc050310ed4f74bec3ac594d30a8bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216fc050310ed4f74bec3ac594d30a8bb\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to take a call in this Committee stage as we talk about Part 1 of the legislation, which, of course, is the enabling legislation for the great State house sell-off that we are seeing here today, wrapped up in ideological rhetoric of \u201Cflexibility\u201D. What we have had is the Minister\u2014because none of the members opposite are willing to stand up and defend what is a terrible policy and a terrible piece of legislation\u2014trying to justify how this really is doing right by the tenants. But if we look at what Part 1 actually does, we heard the Minister wax lyrical, but I would ask the Minister to take another call and point us to the provisions in the legislation we are here in this Chamber debating that do what the Minister claims. Point me to the clause that does what the Minister claims this legislation is going to do. He cannot, because this legislation does none of that. The Government can purport that this bill is all about flexibility, but this is about selling off State houses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe have not heard about how one more piece of social housing is going to be provided. My colleague Phil Goff just finished off his speech by asking that question. I too would like to put that question to members opposite. Tell me how this bill provides for more social housing in New Zealand. Tell me how more houses are going to be provided for the people who are currently struggling to find accommodation in this country. Tell me how one more person is going to get off the Housing New Zealand waiting list, but, more important, tell me how one more person is going to get on to the Housing New Zealand waiting list. In the last quarter, 4,000 of the 6,000 people who applied to go on the waiting list\u2014not to get a house, but to go on the waiting list\u2014for a Housing New Zealand house did not make it, and this legislation will do nothing to help those people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EMy colleague said that he imagined that members opposite were having to sleep with their spray-misters and their copy of Hayek. Well, they are also cuddling up to their fluffy toy version of the Big Society. This is what they are trying to do in this legislation. But like experiments in other places in the world, it is not working. We had the social service agencies lining up and saying that this is not going to work. They said they cannot see how the Government\u2019s plan to sell off State houses will in any way benefit tenants. They are saying that they do not have the capacity and they do not have the infrastructure to manage a sizable housing stock, such as the Government is imagining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo what are we left with? Who is the Government going to sell to? Surprise, surprise, it is going to be developers. It is what it always intended anyway, wrapped up in the guise of non-governmental organisations, who have told the Government they do not want a bar of it. That is why we are debating this legislation under urgency\u2014so those non-governmental organisations do not get a chance to come to the select committee and tell the Government they do not want its offer. What they do not want is their private property developer mates coming to the select committee and saying that they are lining up to buy these houses. Are they lining up to buy these houses because they want to provide wraparound services that provide well for some of the most vulnerable in our country? No, they are lining up to buy these houses because they see a chance to make a profit, because that is what the private sector does. The reason why these houses need to stay in public ownership is that we have decided in this country that the Government should intervene and that the Government has a responsibility to ensure that we do have housing as a crucial and critical part of our welfare safety net, and that when people need it it is there, and we do not have families who simply cannot find a place to live. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EMany of us have spoken about the challenges that people in our electorates are facing and what we are seeing on the ground, at the coalface, every day, and every week. I can only guess that members opposite do this as well. The job of a constituency MP is increasingly being taken up with housing issues. Increasingly, housing is forming a major part of our workload. It is people who simply cannot find somewhere to live, who cannot get on to the waiting list, and who cannot deal with Housing New Zealand when they are there. I would like to use a couple of examples from my electorate. One is a woman in her 60s who cannot afford to be in the private rental market in Christchurch\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac22a52bbd624c249d87943b0c819e9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac22a52bbd624c249d87943b0c819e9b\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a second call on this terrible piece of legislation. The more I read it\u2014and let us be honest, there is not a lot to read, to be fair\u2014it makes me feel a little bit sick. I look across the Chamber and I see every single backbencher in the National Party with their head down, listening to their iPod, not looking like they are interested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation is, seriously, going to affect New Zealand for a very, very long time. I have to say that we have got a proud history of looking after those people who need support the most. What is going on here is shameful and it is going to bite us. Dare I say, there is an old saying\u2014actually, it is not that old: \u201CWe have changed.\u201D The old New Zealand would not do what we have done, and what we are going to do right now. To let democracy be pulled out from underneath us to get this piece of legislation rammed through under urgency does not make any sense to me whatsoever. There are a few bills coming up over the next couple of days, and this is one of the bills that we need to be standing up about, proud to fight against\u2014absolutely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EIn 1969 my parents bought their first home, when interest rates were 22 percent. How could you imagine that you could actually pay for a house at 22 percent? Now, interest rates are only 5 percent, and we cannot get there. The difference is that back in 1969 the house that they bought was only $14,000, and their annual income, with my father working, was only $12,000. I have to say that this has changed in every way. Back then it was affordable for people to be able to get into a home. If you did not have a job that was paying well enough you could get State assistance and actually have a home where you could be brought up, you could work, and you could have a lifestyle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThis privatisation\u2014the corporatisation of the State housing industry is a fugazi. It does not even exist. What we are trying to do is give wealth and control to corporations. We are not actually looking after our people in this country, which this country has an obligation to do. This is a sell-off. It is going, going, gone. We are getting rid of our State-owned assets, and we getting rid of our State-owned housing. Goodness me, we are probably going to privatise our army\u2014that is the next thing. I am sure we have got some insight into some of the fictional stories that are coming out that say that one day this is going to be the direction of the world. It is going to be globalised and corporatised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThis is a step in the wrong direction. This is knee-jerk legislation, which we are very, very concerned about. One of those concerns is that when you are getting advice as a Minister, you want to take good advice from people who know the situation at the grassroots. The people who know what is going on in this country with regard to State housing are the people who are organising that State housing\u2014the corporations that are there to look after people the most. Now, all of sudden, this legislation says that the Minister no longer has to listen to what they have got to say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EUnder this legislation, the Minister can now take advice from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. That ministry does not look after State housing. We are concerned that the second dot point of the explanatory note of this piece of legislation, the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill, is going to undermine the information that is required to make sound decisions for this Government. We oppose this bill strongly. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00229044bcc8783f477e9005361ba2e0ebaa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229044bcc8783f477e9005361ba2e0ebaa\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour\u2014Kelston):\u003C/span\u003E This bill gives the Minister the flexibility to flog off billions of dollars\u2019 worth of State housing to the National Party\u2019s friends and developers, but what this bill does not do is to take seriously the housing issues that we are faced with in this country. This bill completely ignores and sweeps under the carpet the fact that as a country we are facing a housing crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe Government is underplaying the housing crisis and acting like the flogging off of State houses is somehow going to address the issues that we have with housing in this country. It has stated recently that it is managing the Housing New Zealand waiting lists, but when I put through an Official Information Act request on the numbers of people who actually applied for Housing New Zealand houses\u2014not the ones who actually got on the waiting list\u2014we saw that of the 1,853 applicants who were placed on the social housing list, there were 4,000 other people who did not even make it on to that waiting list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe Government is ignoring the fact that there is a demand for affordable housing and that there is a need for increased social housing, not the flogging off of Housing New Zealand houses to the private sector. There is a need for increased housing. When the Government is asked time and time again whether it is going to expand the amount of social housing that we have, it goes silent because it is doing nothing to respond to the issue. What we see from members on that side of the House is that any way they can, they will privatise. Any way they can, they will find a way to flog off State housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want to talk about one example, actually, in my own electorate. The project that I am going to talk about is the Waterview Connection project, where houses were purchased for the purpose of that project. Housing New Zealand houses were purchased for the purpose of that project, but when that project was undertaken it was found that a number of the houses were no longer required. You would think that if the Government took seriously the demand for housing that we are facing in New Zealand\u2014in Auckland\u2014it would think: \u201COK, New Zealand Transport Agency, let\u2019s put those houses back to Housing New Zealand so we can somehow try to meet the demand for social housing that is out there in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EBut what did the Government do? It did not divest it back to the State. Instead, it took that opportunity\u2014any way it can, it will take the opportunity\u2014to sell those houses that were purchased for the Waterview Connection project to private developers, to private owners. The Government could have gone back to the State. It could have met the need that is there for social housing, but instead it sold them off privately for a profit, of course, a monetary profit. But who is not profiting here? The people who are not profiting here are the 4,000 people who cannot even get on to the waiting list for social housing. The people who are not profiting here are the people who are on the waiting list but will be on the waiting list for a long time because of the fact that demand is increasing but the stock of social housing is not increasing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI think that members on that side of the Chamber should be ashamed of themselves\u2014ashamed of themselves because they think that if they pretend we do not have a housing crisis, if they pretend that people are not in need of housing, then the problem no longer exists. But the fact is that New Zealanders know there is a problem. New Zealanders know that housing is unaffordable. New Zealanders know that they cannot access warm, healthy homes. The Government is trying to say it is going to do something about it, but it has done nothing about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe are facing the biggest housing crisis as a country that we have ever faced, and here we have a Government that ignores it and thinks that the answer, the panacea, is selling off our Housing New Zealand houses, our State houses, to their private developer mates. If New Zealanders are not already aware of the fact that that is this Government\u2019s agenda, I have no doubt that within the next few weeks or the next few months that agenda will become very, very clear to all New Zealanders out there who are looking at this problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI just want to say that what we have here is a number of New Zealanders out there looking for houses, and the Government is doing nothing to respond to the need that is there. We have the National Government determined to sell off billions of dollars of State houses, by hook or by crook. Bill English says he does not care whom they get sold to; he just wants them off the Government\u2019s books. The Government initially said they would go to NGOs. NGOs do not even want a bar of this initiative because of the fact that they know it is not going to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00222c25754567804876a52ed8158f327939\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c25754567804876a52ed8158f327939\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I have a couple of questions for the Minister in the chair, Simon Bridges, if he could lift his head out of his magazine for just a second and listen to the debate that is going on in the Chamber that he is supposed to be responsible for. I have a couple of questions for him. My first question is this: how is the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill going to make one iota of difference to the housing crisis that we face in my electorate of Palmerston North? And if the Minister does not think there is a housing crisis in Palmerston North, then he should get there and come and talk to the people and talk to some of the agencies that deal with people who are in need of social and emergency accommodation in Palmerston North. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIf you drive around my city right now\u2014this has been the case for quite some time, and it is getting worse\u2014there are huge tracts of empty land where there used to be State houses. On Botanical Road that land has been empty for 7 years, with absolutely no plan for what to do with it. On Rugby Street that land has been empty for 3 years. On Selby Place that land has just been emptied now. And finally we hear there is a plan. Can anybody guess what the plan is for that land? Sell if off, flog it off. And this land is not even going to the NGOs or the private developers or the foreign banks that the National Party wants to bring in to social housing. Oh no, this is not for social housing; this is just outright privatisation\u2014selling it off, and that means less social housing for the people who live in my community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EHow do National members justify that? Well, I will tell you how they justify that. They say there are only 20 people on the housing waiting list. Well, we have just heard from Megan Woods and Carmel Sepuloni how they do that: 6,000 people apply for a State house in New Zealand and 4,000 of them are denied even the opportunity to get on the waiting list. And where do those people go when they are denied access to the waiting list? Well, they end up at the doorstep of the Salvation Army, which has had its funding cut and has had to reduce the amount of emergency accommodation that it can provide. They end up at the doorstep of Women\u2019s Refuge, which is now having to screen women with families who come and ask for its assistance. Women, regardless of whether they have suffered abuse, are being told by the Ministry of Social Development to go to Women\u2019s Refuge to seek housing because Work and Income cannot satisfy their urgent and desperate need for emergency accommodation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ESo Women\u2019s Refuge\u2014which is already cash-strapped, has already had to close down one facility in Palmerston North, and is having more of its funding cut in this very Budget\u2014is having to waste time determining whether or not women with families who come to it actually fit the criteria for its service, because this Government is abrogating its responsibility to provide emergency accommodation to people who desperately need it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThat is what is happening in my electorate and if any National MP honestly believes that the situation is rosy, then get yourself down to your local Salvation Army, get yourself down to your local Women\u2019s Refuge, and go and talk to any of the other agencies. In my electorate it would be Methodist Social Services or Shepherd\u2019s Rest, which have also had their funding cut. Go and ask them what the real story is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI say to Government members that your numbers do not tell the truth. Your numbers have been deliberately constructed by you to try to fool the people into thinking there is no housing crisis. The people are not fooled. The people are not fooled. We know full well there is a massive shortage of emergency accommodation. People are living in their cars, people are sleeping under bridges, people are having to couch surf from one friend to another just to try to find a place to put a roof over their head. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EFamilies are accommodating other families, with massive overcrowding in those houses, because this Government does not want to participate in a fundamental role of the State, and that is to make sure that every citizen that it represents actually has somewhere to call home and a roof to put over their head, and the safety and security that comes with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI urge members on that side of the Chamber who cannot be bothered to get out of their seats and participate in this debate to go to the Salvation Army and to go to Women\u2019s Refuge and find out the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022659d60dba77c4d0c9f1aaecfcd504bb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022659d60dba77c4d0c9f1aaecfcd504bb4\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00228da3bee103eb45a08625ad2adfe84af9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228da3bee103eb45a08625ad2adfe84af9\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E To follow on from my colleague Iain Lees-Galloway\u2019s speech to this Committee, earlier this year I had a woman in my office who was desperate. She had been living in women\u2019s refuges for 4 months with her two grandchildren in one room\u2014in one room. She could not get on the Housing New Zealand list. Both the Ministry of Social Development and Housing New Zealand did not want to know. It took the intervention of an MP to battle with them for weeks to get her on the list. Both of those children were living with her because they had severe behavioural issues. They should not have been in one room, and here we had two Government agencies that were impervious to their plight. Now, finally, she is in a State house, but it took the intervention of an MP. Does it take the intervention of a member of Parliament\u2019s office for every single one of those people who cannot get on the list?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI challenge those MPs on the Government side of the House to say that they do not have those people coming into their electorate offices, that they do not see the plight of people who are at their wits\u2019 end and who are desperate. I challenge those people, that Government, to take off the cloak of conservative compassion. Take off that cloak of conservative compassion, which is a sham, and show us your real faces, the real face of ideological privatisers who are dismantling our social safety net by privatising State housing and cementing an underclass in this country. Cementing an underclass\u2014that is going to be the legacy of John Key. That is going to be the legacy of the National Government\u2014an underclass, a true underclass, in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAnd why do we have this bill coming in under urgency? Because the Government knows that it will come under scrutiny. People will come out of the woodwork and say exactly what they think. As for the social service agencies that have operated in this country respectfully for over a century\u2014the Methodist Mission, the Salvation Army, Presbyterian Support\u2014what do those people have to say about what this Government is planning? They think it will not benefit those who are most vulnerable. Whom will it benefit? It will benefit the privatisers. That is why the Government should take off the cloak of conservative compassion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett and Bill English came to Dunedin in January. They came to spruik their social housing rort. They told us all that it was going to be nirvana, that it was going to be innovative and flexible, as Simon Bridges has told us. They told us that there are going to be warm, dry homes. They told us that the trend was for one and two-bedroom homes, that nobody wanted the three or four-bedroom homes. Well, in Dunedin that is so not the case. Those people who cannot get on the list are the people who need the three or four-bedroom homes\u2014the people who are desperate, who are living in terrible circumstances in the private sector, who are living under circumstances with slum landlords who are taking advantage of them. They are living in houses that are cold and damp and sending their children to hospital every year. This is the cementing of an underclass, it is the cementing of poverty, and it is the cementing of children who are living in circumstances they should not be living in. This is a great tragedy, and every MP on the other side of the Chamber will have seen these people in their electorate offices, and they should be ashamed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI would like to challenge the Minister sitting in the chair, Simon Bridges, to get up on his feet and tell us what regional New Zealand will get out of this bill. Get up on your feet and tell us what regional New Zealand will get out of this bill. Will there be a single new piece of social housing? How will those houses be made more warm and dry? What accommodation will those people be living in? What are their options? If they cannot get into social housing, what are their options? Get up on your feet and tell us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0ec08e581ea4224b5025ab39e755cef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0ec08e581ea4224b5025ab39e755cef\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u00228e90a4bedc2d4c738effc596b3f51a10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e90a4bedc2d4c738effc596b3f51a10\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. Actually, I want to start by quoting from the Prime Minister\u2019s press release titled \u201CSupporting children in hardship focus of Budget\u201D. What I want to highlight is that currently we have 4,808 families on a Housing New Zealand waiting list. These are families who have been through the Ministry of Social Development process. They have been identified as those most in need. In fact, priority A is defined as people who are at risk, and includes families with a severe and persistent housing need that must be addressed immediately. We are actually talking about 10,000 children who currently do not have a home. I think the question everybody should be asking is: how does this piece of legislation contribute to housing those children? The Minister for Social Housing is here. I would love to hear from her about how this piece of legislation will help the 10,000 New Zealand children who currently do not have a home and who have been through the Ministry of Social Development process and have been deemed to be in severe and persistent need of housing. How does this piece of legislation, prioritised by this Government, meet the needs of those children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWhen I look at where this piece of legislation came from, it came from a Government-commissioned report called Home and Housed: A Vision for Social Housing in New Zealand. It was commissioned in 2010. The central proposition of this commissioned research was, No. 1, that private sector organisations could provide social housing to those most in need more creatively than the Government. The second proposition was that there needed to be a plan to move people from renting to owning their own home. Again, I ask the question: how does this piece of legislation contribute to those, I guess, two crucial outcomes from that commissioned report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWhat we know from the social housing provider - sector is that, actually, social housing providers do not want the transfer of houses, because for them the transfer of Housing New Zealand houses is a transfer of responsibility. I want to quote Major Campbell Roberts, who said that he does not believe \u201Cthe lives of tenants would be sufficiently improved by such a transfer.\u201D And why is that? It is because to take responsibility for a home means to make sure that that home is warm and dry and is going to contribute to the health and well-being of the family that is living in it. The reality of a lot of the houses is that they are not fit for purpose, and, actually, this Government, which is supposed to provide for those most in need, should ensure that the houses that are being provided for those most in need are fit for purpose. So the private sector organisations that this Government wanted to transfer that responsibility to, actually, at the end of the day, said no, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWe think it is a core Government responsibility to provide housing for those most in need, and to ensure that the 10,000 New Zealand children who are waiting with their families on priority A and B housing lists, which the Ministry of Social Development has determined for itself, get the home that they need. Why is it important for our children to have a home? Well, actually, it is relevant to their education. If children do not have a home, how are they supposed to have continuous education? How are they supposed to go to an early childhood education provider, which we all know is the basis for getting a good education in our country? How are they then supposed to go to a primary school and reap the benefits of our public education system? How are they then supposed to belong to a family where mum and dad have security of tenure in the home that they want to build for their children so that they can go and get further education themselves, or possibly go to work? How is that supposed to happen when we have a Government at the moment that wants to abdicate responsibility for providing houses and homes for those most in need?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI am an MP in South Auckland, and, actually, across the South Auckland area, of the 2,537 families waiting on the Housing New Zealand and Ministry of Social Development waiting list, we have 1,070 families and over 2,500 South Auckland children who do not have a home. Forty percent of the people on this waiting list are M\u0101ori. So how is this piece of legislation ensuring that our M\u0101ori children have a home and are able to get quality early childhood education and are able to go to school? Pacific children and families account for 19 percent of the families and children on the Housing New Zealand and Ministry of Social Development waiting list. How is this bill going to contribute to meeting the Better Public Services target? We know we have got big issues with M\u0101ori and Pacific children. This Government wants to focus on participation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022244dc96ebdd84ee49b7e78072ef8d1de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022244dc96ebdd84ee49b7e78072ef8d1de\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this debate on behalf of the Green Party. I have to say that this legislation is quite indicative of the National Party and this Government\u2019s approach. I think we all want better outcomes for everyone in New Zealand, but the approach that is often adopted by this National Government is not supported by evidence, it is not going to solve the problem, and it is actually going to make it worse. Everyone in New Zealand needs a place to live and call home. It is a fundamental human right. The way we build a prosperous and happy society is not with the approach the Government tends to take, which is maximising profit for rentiers and vested interested groups and selling off the assets of this State; it is by looking after our people. Surely, having a place to live is one of the core components of looking after our people, and particularly our children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESocial housing could be improved in New Zealand; there is no question about that. There are things we could do better. There may be houses in the wrong place, and there may be opportunities for Housing New Zealand to deliver to more people, but this legislation is not going to do that. If Housing New Zealand is not able to manage our existing stock well, why do we think that social housing providers would be able to do a better job, and why do we think the market would be able to do a better job? Certainly, all the evidence from overseas shows that in the countries that do get the best outcomes in terms of education, childhood development, reducing inequality, and health outcomes, all of that flows through to a strong economy. Of course, the purpose of the economy is to look after people, not just to have a strong economy for the sake of it. In all of the countries that do that, they have a strong role for social support. The State is in the best position to provide social support, particularly when it comes to houses for those who are the most vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe housing crisis in Auckland, in particular, is about both supply and demand. I just want to refer to the Productivity Commission\u2019s paper on housing affordability from several years ago, because if you look at its analysis of the social housing situation, it suggests there are areas that need reform. Most importantly, it points out that starting reforms at State housing without addressing demand pressures and without building sufficient options for people to move on to is generating a major risk for those who are reviewed out of State housing. I would say that it is pretty clear that the Government has taken pretty much no action to address the demand problems, particularly in Auckland. It has not done anything to address the supply issues. It likes to characterise its Resource Management Act reform, or \u201Cdeform\u201D, as being all about achieving affordable housing, but there is no actual evidence that what it is proposing in the Resource Management Act reforms or the Special Housing Areas legislation is actually going to increase the supply where it needs to increase or reduce house prices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAll the Green Party is really asking for is that we take an evidence-based approach and that we look after our people first. There are many steps that could be taken to improve housing affordability in New Zealand. On the demand side, there could be a comprehensive capital gains tax excluding the family home, and the tax treatment of investment properties could be improved. The Government made a tiny move in that direction. It is too little, too late. Of course, the Green Party has been calling for the same tax treatment of income from labour for quite a long time, and it is nice to see that there has been a slight move in that direction. In addition to tax treatments, it makes sense to have restrictions on foreign capital coming in, only because we know that foreign capital coming in is having an impact on house prices and land values, as it is in many other jurisdictions. There are some pretty obvious ways that we can deal with that, like by limiting ownership of land to residents and citizens in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EOn the supply side, the State is in the best position to address the supply issue of houses, and not just houses but homes and neighbourhoods. The places in Auckland where land values are highest and the places where people want to be is where we need to be providing dwellings for people\u2014where they are close to jobs, where they are close to education, and not out in the middle of nowhere where they are going to have an incredibly long commute and will have to own multiple cars. There is no point in increasing housing affordability\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u00223f8ceb4cf4be4083a8bfaf8ca3f19992\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f8ceb4cf4be4083a8bfaf8ca3f19992\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (Third Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022f46a443c515b4b70b966e0a9f7f97dc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f46a443c515b4b70b966e0a9f7f97dc6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the question is that the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u00227f54d10afe764b87a52b5edf87870db9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f54d10afe764b87a52b5edf87870db9\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. This is a substantial piece of legislation. There are several members on this side who have not been able to participate in this debate to date, and I request that you reconsider your ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022df3b4783d7d648a5a4d64d68137b0fe3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df3b4783d7d648a5a4d64d68137b0fe3\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This debate is quite a serious one for New Zealand First. A number of our members have left their offices and come down here to take the opportunity to take a call on this and they have not been afforded that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022002be5a1cec44799abb11a48a12de03d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022002be5a1cec44799abb11a48a12de03d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I am ready to rule on this matter. The question will be put. There have been 21 calls taken by the Opposition. This is the third closure motion, and I am going to put the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u0022959cc8cb259d495ca9b3818b00b02a18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022959cc8cb259d495ca9b3818b00b02a18\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I accept your ruling and the reference to the number of calls. I seek your reassessment of your decision with regard to the fact that this is an important piece of legislation and it has circumvented the normal select committee process. In view of that, I just wonder whether or not you may reconsider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002265d4bd3498824a7990c94c6e76a98c5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265d4bd3498824a7990c94c6e76a98c5d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of the process, and I am prepared to put the motion as it has been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f4010dfb7894f18af249ae64a09dfa0\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205279063622e45ea983145d82b77d0d2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not going to take a further point of order from the member. I have taken several points of order\u2014sit down while I am on my feet, please. I have made my ruling, and my ruling is that the question will be put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022e857b845d9da4098a6231a90623fbd97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e857b845d9da4098a6231a90623fbd97\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. This is a new point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dab7afd19fef4dc28aa91302eda61b5b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the point of order. I suggest that the member be very careful about how he puts it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225465119578874665b75cf9575c14cce8\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Could you advise how many calls New Zealand First has had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caf46498e8db47edb75d7ccb63a31509\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I did not hear. Could you restate the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f06ee4321dd247dc84852dce3304cfe7\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I know you stated that the Opposition has had 21 calls. Could you tell me please how many calls New Zealand First has had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ba65e006b734699828bf44ff35854c1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Three.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1fde64a26f846fd910c2c42c77096cf\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00227210abbe351d46889b1f16e9bb93ad4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227210abbe351d46889b1f16e9bb93ad4f\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Can I seek your guidance, please. I stood to take a call at every single opportunity. The main reason was that there is a mistake in this bill that I wanted to highlight. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00229ca8ff836a4641e1a3bf2e8abc793f25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ca8ff836a4641e1a3bf2e8abc793f25\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: The fact is that it is the Chair\u2019s prerogative as to when he will put the question. I have accepted a closure motion, and I am going to put that question. [Interruption] Sit down, please. Continual points of order around this particular position are becoming quite frustrating. Members will have to accept that there have been a large number of calls on this particular part, and we have only\u2014[Interruption] Do not interrupt me while I am on my feet. I am the Chair of this session, and you are not. There is another part to be debated. There will be full calls given in those debates. I have outlined the number of calls that parties have had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002274440a3ca6854bac8571317b285fb840\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274440a3ca6854bac8571317b285fb840\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I will not make a long point of order, but I will make three brief points. The first is that this bill is going through all stages under urgency and it has not been to a select committee. The second point is that there are members who have been seeking the call since the beginning of the debate who have not been given a call, and other members have been given multiple calls. I think that does create an unfairness in this process. The third point is that there has been a long tradition in the House that where the Government does not engage in the debate, that is not used as a reason for closing down the debate prematurely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002209e00a8ce14e4377a2679eba7dc46abb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209e00a8ce14e4377a2679eba7dc46abb\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: In ruling on the point of order, I am going to continue to put the question. The fact is that the Opposition and all parties have the ability to marshal who is going to speak. They all have the ability to make calls. Not every member who seeks a call in every debate does get a call; that is the history of it. Some of us go back quite a long way and remember how these things work and have worked in the past. The most frustrating thing about being the Chair in a debate such as this is that you think of your best lines while you are sitting here and you do not get the opportunity to use them. Having said that, I believe that, on analysis, people will find that there has been a significant numbers of calls. Many members have had the opportunity to make their points. The points being made are now becoming repetitive, so I am going to put the question. [Interruption] I am not taking any more points of order. [Interruption] Please be seated. I am not taking any more points of order on this matter. The question is that the question be now put. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ebd9e667c74f4fcda055a7febe69e9f4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022404232d6bb2742d3b3dfda6d51bab94a\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00222f144f60c3ee4d979275e5c2a672930e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f144f60c3ee4d979275e5c2a672930e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: We are taking a vote. Please be seated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283eb29ad1c2d4c22bf898af0375cf841\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that, but it is about the vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022740b8d7207954a6f862d8a7f3977bb84\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: I will accept your point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5cbcd0f23c343d49caefef8cfc165ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5cbcd0f23c343d49caefef8cfc165ba\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairperson, through you I would like to ask that someone please check that M\u0101ori Party vote. I cannot believe that that is the vote that they are taking on this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00220f846f5cb34843b7a0de5e7196c5b9a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f846f5cb34843b7a0de5e7196c5b9a6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: The vote is being cast. That was not a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e1be9fd1d5314e0690a04e3bfd5eb497\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022e89a63ef3ba840a2be5c6da8420943ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e89a63ef3ba840a2be5c6da8420943ac\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: The member Ron Mark will leave the Chamber. He has been here a long time. He knows that votes are called in silence. He was reminded of that, and he decided to interject on three occasions, casting aspersions on people who voted in a particular way. He will leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00223ba9063ed7754a9b900dfe5fe691195b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ba9063ed7754a9b900dfe5fe691195b\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I understand the decision you have just made. I waited until the vote was completed before intervening. I do understand the point you have made, and it is out of order for a member to interject when a vote is being taken. That is absolutely correct. I do ask that you consider, when determining how long the member will be out of the Chamber, the fact that this is a bill going through all stages under urgency and this is in fact the only opportunity to participate in the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00224f389e02fdeb4daeb6081ea699c61675\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f389e02fdeb4daeb6081ea699c61675\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: I will put my mind to that. The member is still within the Chamber. I must admit I was tempted to quote him from 2 days ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ERon Mark withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224648f4a6f5c64121b53fa860cde3c830\u0022\u003EPart 2  Remedial and other matters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u0022442f0326f2454861871554666869b045\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022442f0326f2454861871554666869b045\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am seeking your guidance on an issue that I think we will come up again during the course of this debate. The point of order is this: I understand that during your decision on the last part, you said that Opposition parties had had 21 calls on that part. That differs from the record that we have been taking of the calls. I wonder what the process is for addressing discrepancies in the record-taking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022995b86279a9d42c2a6bcd86e3684490f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022995b86279a9d42c2a6bcd86e3684490f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: The process is outlined in Speakers\u2019 rulings 64/4-6. Speakers\u2019 ruling 64/4 states: \u201CThe [chairperson] is the sole judge as to whether or not he ought to sanction the putting of the closure motion,\u201D. In respect of the official record of who has spoken when and of how many calls have been taken, this is retained by the Clerk and is available for inspection. If the member wishes to, she can align them with her own records.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a91c769fba264ccc9385bd7ab1a5100e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a91c769fba264ccc9385bd7ab1a5100e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Part 2 of this bill, at clause 21, continues with this ridiculous notion that Housing New Zealand should not proffer advice to the Government. Clause 21 continues that. We live in a country that is wealthy. We are told every day by the National Party that we are living in a wealthy country, and yet increasingly people cannot get houses to live in. We have got more people living in parks. The number of homeless is increasing. We are seeing that in the newspapers, and in magazines like North and South. We have got people living in cars. We have got people living in garages. And we have got members of Parliament, like Paula Bennett, referring people in housing need to the camping ground, to live in caravans and huts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe have got house prices that are the highest they have been for ever in New Zealand, and some of the least-affordable housing in the world. We have the lowest rate of homeownership in New Zealand since the 1950s, and yet the Government says it does not want decent advice about housing. In the social housing sector things have got so bad because of the ridiculous mismanagement by this Government. It does not let Housing New Zealand answer questions about need. It has stopped that already. It has got so bad in Labour Party constituency offices, in part because National Party members, sometimes quite frequently, will not even address the causes of concern of their constituents, which means that those people are coming to Labour Party offices, in addition to our own constituency voters. It has got so bad that our staff are pulling their hair out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENot only that, people out there are so frustrated that they cannot get a roof over their heads for themselves and their people that they are abusing our staff and threatening them. That is never excusable, but the level of frustration in society has become so high that we have had cases in South Auckland where people are pulling knives on our staff. They are so frustrated that they cannot get an answer as to where they can get emergency housing, and yet we have got less advice coming from the ministries because they do not want to know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI drove to Invercargill a couple of weeks ago. I went down through \u014Cwaka, and came through the southern parts of Invercargill as I came in. The private rental stock, the basic level of which will always be held up by the Government rental stock, is in an abysmal state. These are cold parts of New Zealand. There are rotten houses with holes in the walls. I was shocked at the number of houses that I went past in these cold areas that just had a sheet draped over the window of a single-glazed house, with rotten frames where the glass drops in the frame, and where there are holes in the sides of the walls. People have got no alternative, and the Government has not got any minimum standard for housing. All of those houses are legally let in this wealthy country, where poor people suffer because of the inadequacy of the Government\u2019s housing policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett rates herself as the next leader of the National Party. This\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f326ee92b304e19a67f9f2709aacb5d\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217dd80ae79d548978453e772e566b85a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look\u2014it is promoted on the websites of the National Party. Judith Collins has already thrown herself under a bus, and it is a competition between Steven Joyce and Paula Bennett. New Zealanders, Ms Bennett, hate hypocrisy. They hate hypocrisy, and they do not like to see people who get ahead in New Zealand, having had access to a State house, now ditching the system. This will be the Minister\u2019s b\u00EAte noire. This will be carried with her until the end of her political career. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EBill English, when last in Government, tried to get rid of income-related rents. He could not. That National Government sold 13,000 houses, but it lost the income-related rents, and it has not even been brave enough to go directly after that this time, because it knows that people think that poor people should not have to pay more than they can afford, particularly people with mental illness or disability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u00222a9b31379ec6460c8a4539b3d4452487\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a9b31379ec6460c8a4539b3d4452487\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am shocked as I speak to Part 2 of this bill, because what happens in Part 2 is that it actually guts the Housing New Zealand Corporation, and it washes the Government\u2019s hands of any responsibility for providing decent housing for New Zealanders. It is an absolute disgrace because in Subpart 2 of Part 2 the Housing Corporation Act changes so that the Housing New Zealand Corporation is not even responsible for giving policy advice to the Minister any longer. How disgraceful is that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThe Minister does not want to hear the policy advice from the Housing New Zealand, because if the Minister did hear what was actually going on out there, the Government would know that it is going to have blood on its hands. It is going to have blood on its hands from this disgraceful attempt to absolve itself from any responsibility for providing decent housing for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI come from the Waikato, and in the Waikato region, here is what is happening in housing. Housing New Zealand is not going to give advice to the Minister to tell her this any longer, so listen up Minister, because this is what is happening. Aucklanders are marching down over the Bombay Hills in their droves to buy affordable housing in Hamilton because they cannot do that in their own city where they live and work, in Auckland. This is because the Government has failed to fix the housing crisis. It has buried its head in the sand and pretended that it is not happening. Well, it has been happening, and now that housing crisis is marching south into the Waikato. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIn Hamilton, house prices are going through the roof and rents are going up on literally a daily basis as Aucklanders\u2014and there is no problem with the Aucklanders, because it is not their fault; it is the fault of the Government for doing nothing\u2014are having to move down to Hamilton to buy their first affordable homes, and they still work in Auckland. They have to travel backwards and forwards between those cities on a daily basis, and that is creating a housing crisis in Hamilton. So, what is that going to mean? Well, what it means\u2014and we will not hear from the Government Waikato MPs on this issue; you will not hear them getting up and speaking on this\u2014is that there are people living in cars, there are people living in garages, and there are two to three families living in one home, just to make ends meet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EJust the other day in Hamilton I was at a network meeting where the issue of housing came up. One of the community workers asked the Housing New Zealand person who was in that meeting whether houses are going to be sold in Hamilton. I felt really sorry for this man, but what he said was: \u201COh, no, no. No houses will be sold in Hamilton. It\u2019s great news. They are going to be sold in Waharoa and in Ng\u0101ruaw\u0101hia.\u201D\u2014Waharoa and Ng\u0101ruaw\u0101hia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIf anyone knows the Waikato, what two poorer communities could you find in the Waikato than Waharoa and Ng\u0101ruaw\u0101hia? That is where the Government is going to be flogging off these State houses. It says that there is no need there. There is no waiting list, apparently, in Waharoa and Ng\u0101ruaw\u0101hia. Well, when I heard that, I went straight back to the 1990s, because in the 1990s, when a National Government flogged off 13,000 State houses, I was one of the people who stood and formed a human ring round houses in Waharoa to stop those houses from being picked up in the middle of the night by that National Government and being shipped up to Auckland so that it could charge a higher market rent for them up in Auckland and leave the people in Waharoa without the housing that they desperately needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022296d7e01a0cd46f7ba0848ded104e896\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Come back to Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291829f4ff3b74a89987e6255e6d2252f\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair, why this is about Part 2 is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c6951a795e3487a99a501a6fb0ee843\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: You are giving a Part 1 speech. Come back to Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba8588e860364cc0817310defe9c86f2\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that the Minister is no longer going to hear from Housing New Zealand about these\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247b9cbe7bbb342dcb633e22aebd9e581\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume her seat, and I am sorry to interrupt her. She should have taken the indication I gave her without me having to stand on my feet. This is a Part 2 debate. She should have another look at it and not just continue with a Part 1 speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a373648b8e84e79a09a06c4450f3aec\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Again, I will just make a couple of very brief points, the first of which is that traditionally\u2014certainly, in the time that I have been in the House\u2014when a bill goes through all stages under urgency, and particularly when a debate has been curtailed on one part, there is some scope given to members speaking on a subsequent part if they have not had the opportunity to make all of their points on the first part, to address the wider part of the debate. That has always been the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220184d07282eb41348699a886212dee10\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for making that point of order. You may resume your seat. There is also a convention, which the member will know very well, that if she wants to do a little bit of straying, she makes at least some reference to whatever is in Part 2. She has been here a long time, for as long as I have. She knows the rules. Let us hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e87370416ba4309a5602ae35f8415aa\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: In clause 21, where this bill will take away the ability for Housing New Zealand to give policy advice to the Minister, the Minister is not going to hear this information from anyone else. Housing New Zealand is not going to tell the Minister, because in this part of the bill it has been reduced to being just a badly run State-owned property developer. It is a property developer; that is what it has been reduced to because clause 21 in Part 2 says that it is no longer required to give any research or policy advice to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u002289b379f310664894ae5d483932e42361\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289b379f310664894ae5d483932e42361\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E It is a privilege to take a call on Part 2 of this bill. Ever since this Government took office, it has been shaving away the functions of Housing New Zealand, and clauses 20 and 21 of this bill continue that trend. Clauses 20 and 21 remove some of the objectives and the functions of the corporation that we colloquially know as Housing New Zealand. This continues, as I said, the trend that this Government has had for some time with Housing New Zealand. If we go back to the very start of the first shavings of the functions that are featured in clauses 20 and 21, I think that may have been the 0800 number that Housing New Zealand used to operate, but then when there were waiting times of 2 to 3 hours, or even 4 hours, for some of the customers waiting for an answer to some of their basic questions, there was a certain level of frustration. So that was the first change and the first shaving away of a function, because there were fewer front-line staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESpeaking as a local MP in the electorate of Mana, I say that the next shaving of function was the removal of a front desk in the city. So we went from a city with a considerable number of State housing tenants, a high demand, and a high capacity through that office, to a situation where there was no front desk for the people of Porirua to go to and do their business. This was just not on in a city the size of Porirua and with the number of State house tenants. Clauses 20 and 21 of this bill just continue that trend of neglect for Housing New Zealand. The fact that this Government is taking away those objectives and those functions from Housing New Zealand in a way says that this Government does not want the story to be told of what is going to be the outcome of this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI said at the beginning of my speech that it is a privilege to speak to Part 2. Sometimes people say that just to fill in a bit of time, but it is a privilege because no one else in New Zealand, apart from members of this Parliament, gets to scrutinise this piece of legislation. It is being rushed through under urgency, and some pretty basic questions about the functions and objectives should be asked of this Government by people from outside this House. I am thinking about the people who live on Warspite Avenue, on Commerce Crescent, on Arahura Crescent, on Driver Crescent, in my electorate who want to know what is changing in this piece of legislation and what will change in their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThese functions of Housing New Zealand are changing in clause 20 and 21, so who will be their landlord? It is a pretty basic question from someone sitting out in the community: who will be their landlord now? In the past it has been Housing New Zealand and now it is a mixture of the Ministry of Social Development and Housing New Zealand, but with the functions changing in Part 2, who is going to be their landlord? What kind of rent are they now going to pay? What kind of tenancy are they going to have now? What happens to their children? What happens to their schooling? Are they safe in their community? These are all the kinds of questions that needed to be asked in a select committee process, but this Government will not do that and has not even bothered to answer any of these questions in this Committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThese are major changes in clauses 20 and 21 and, as I say, they continue the trend of this Government having to wash its hands of any responsibility of social housing in New Zealand. I grew up in a State house as well, but I do not want to be a political hypocrite\u2014I do not want to be a political hypocrite. I want to come to this House and make sure we care for and build on some of the things that I had that were the very building bricks of the success that I have had today, to make sure that the generations that follow can have what we have had. But, no, this Government wants to take that away. Clauses 20 and 21 are just another chapter in this long history of this Government basically wanting to get rid of Housing New Zealand and to have nothing at all to do with making sure there are affordable homes for the most vulnerable Kiwis in this country. Because if the market will not supply it, who should? The answer from that side of the Chamber is \u201Cnot us\u201D. But on this side of the Chamber, we know there is a responsibility and that is why we will build on social housing when we are in Government next.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u00224424115862664619b0384ef4dd5534a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224424115862664619b0384ef4dd5534a0\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on Part 2 of this piece of legislation. To try to keep it as relatively narrow as possible is probably not going to be the easiest because, let us be honest, the devil is normally in the detail, but there are a few details lacking here\u2014there are only a few paragraphs. Basically, the essence of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill\u2014I have to read that every time because it is so long-winded\u2014in Part 2, is really about two things that I can see, and that is taking away the GST in the first part. Whether that GST to be removed from the housing is really to do with making it more affordable\u2014I do not think so. There is nothing in this legislation that suggests in any way that if you take GST off the costs of housing, they are going to be transposed and put into the beneficial places for those people who are actually going to be paying those rents. If you really were interested in looking after the people paying those rents, then take GST off residential rates and take GST off food. Those are the sorts of things that will go far further than taking GST off the accommodation costs for those people in those houses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThis package that this Government is putting together and putting out there for the property developers will be its sum game. I cannot believe that the National Government members sit there silently. Not one person is standing up to speak on this legislation. In particular, I invite the M\u0101ori Party to say what this legislation is going to do for the M\u0101ori people of this country. This is eating at the core of their issues. The biggest issues that we have in social housing deprivation throughout this country are now going to be handed over to those large corporations, those property developers, and we are not hearing anything that says in any way that the M\u0101ori Party is going to oppose this bill. In fact, at the last count it is supporting it, which absolutely beggars belief. I cannot understand that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ESubpart 2 of Part 2, \u201CRemedial and other matters\u201D in the explanatory note to the bill, is \u201CHousing Corporation Act 1974\u201D. Let me read it out to you because it is quite short but, to be honest, those people back home, wherever you are watching\u2014I am sure there are a good dozen of you out there\u2014might want to know this: \u201CClause 20 repeals section 3B(b). The effect of the repeal is that [Housing New Zealand Corporation] no longer has an objective to provide advice and information on housing to the Minister of Housing. Clause 21 amends section 18(2) by making clear that [Housing New Zealand Corporation\u2019s] research and monitoring function described in section 18(2)(j) does not include research and monitoring for the purpose of advising the Minister of Housing on those matters.\u201D From now on the Minister for Building and Housing is going to be getting his advice from the people who are trying to get industry and employment for those people. This absolutely contradicts what this whole State housing is about. It is about looking after the people who need to be looked after the most. This is taking away their ability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI would certainly love to hear how the Minister thinks this is going to benefit New Zealanders, but also the minority groups of New Zealanders and, specifically, the M\u0101ori people in this country who need a voice, and we are not hearing one. We need to get some idea of how this is actually going to be of benefit to them and the rest of the people who are living in poverty in this country. We in New Zealand First, like the other comrades on this side, absolutely strongly and vehemently oppose the bill, and we would just love to hear some words coming back from the National benches on how those members can justify supporting this absolutely abhorrent piece of legislation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4dcd22264034dd397ad423c23fd77d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4dcd22264034dd397ad423c23fd77d3\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E It is a telling indictment on the current National Government that the only time its members are willing to get up on their pins and talk in this debate is when they are trying to shut it down. They are not willing to stand up and actually defend the clauses of this bill. I want to turn to some of the clauses that have not yet been mentioned in this debate and they are the clauses around KiwiSaver\u2014clauses 22 and 23\u2014that make changes to the KiwiSaver provisions in the legislation that allow someone to withdraw their contributions to KiwiSaver to purchase a first home. What this bill does is that it means that somebody who has been in another superannuation or retirement savings scheme and transferred to KiwiSaver will still be able to access those provisions, where previously they might not have been able to. So potentially it is quite a sensible provision in terms of ensuring that people can use their retirement savings to buy their first home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBut let us just think about that for a moment. That is how far we have come\u2014when the main solution for people who cannot afford to buy their first home is that they can pull out all of their retirement savings to buy a house. That is what it has come down to. They have to make a choice between whether they are saving for their retirement or are able to buy a first home. That is the actual reality that many New Zealanders are facing. We are not talking necessarily about young people\u2014well, they are young, relatively speaking, but we are talking about people, potentially, in their 30s who might be looking at buying a first home. If they do that, and they put all of their savings and all of their money into buying their first home and they then spend the next 10 to 15 years getting their head above water in terms of paying that off, how long are they going to have to save for their retirement? As Michael Cullen said, when he was the Minister of Finance, you cannot eat your house. People are going to need to have savings in their retirement if they are going to live comfortably. I support this particular provision in the bill. I do not necessarily support the other provisions, and I am going to talk about the other provisions in this part in a moment. I support this provision but I think we do need to take a step back and ask how on earth we have got to this point where it is a choice between owning a home or saving for retirement, because we need New Zealanders to be doing both. We need to make sure that New Zealanders are supported to do both so that they can own a home and they can be sure that they are going to have a comfortable and secure retirement. Unfortunately, the reality is that many are having to choose between that. There are other factors at play here when they are making those choices. Many of the people in their late 20s and early 30s who will be in this position\u2014maybe even in their mid-30s\u2014will also have student loans that they are repaying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhat we are doing more and more and more is loading cost on to a generation of New Zealanders who are not going to be guaranteed the same comfort in retirement that they are seeing for the generations who have gone before them. That is going to create intergenerational pressure. I say to all of those who are nearing the age of 65 that when that pressure really starts to come home, when the retirement boom starts to happen and the next generation of New Zealanders are faced with the choice of increasing taxes to pay for that\u2014which they will pay\u2014or making other changes, there will be a conflict. The future generations of New Zealanders will remember that they had to make a choice between saving for their own retirement and buying a home. I think that is going to be very unfortunate. I think we should be factoring that in now and we should be planning ahead for that so that that conflict does not happen, because that could be immensely damaging to intergenerational attitudes, and I do not think that that is going to be healthy. So I think although that provision is one that I support, I think we do need to look at that wider issue of housing affordability and those wider issues around that massive burden that is being placed on an emerging generation of New Zealanders and the pressure that that is going to lead to in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EClauses 19, 20, and 21, which have been more widely debated in this bill, make changes to the remit of the Housing New Zealand Corporation, established under the Housing Corporation Act 1974. Previously, Housing New Zealand was the main adviser to the Government on social housing policy. That is now being transferred to another agency as part of a wider move, which has seen the policy function moving to the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2014or whatever; I cannot remember the exact order of the words in its name\u2014and the needs-assessments being transferred to Work and Income. So the mentality behind this is that Housing New Zealand is simply the owner of the houses. That is all its remit is; that is all it does. I want to say as strongly as I can to the Government that although I understand the distinction that it is trying to make with these changes, it is not working on the ground. There are major challenges that that change is creating. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00225c02650472764b63a81cbcfc07b87aa9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c02650472764b63a81cbcfc07b87aa9\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chairperson. Thank you very much. I seek just a short call in Part 2 of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. I am pleased to see the Minister in the chair there, the Hon Paula Bennett\u2014hopefully the Minister can expand on and give some explanation around what is happening there, particularly in Subpart 2 and the changes to the Housing Corporation Act 1974. I refer specifically to clause 21(1): \u201CIn section 18(2)(j), after \u2018related to housing\u2019, insert \u2018(but not for the purpose of advising the Minister of Housing on those matters)\u2019.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EFrom a New Zealand First perspective, we are not 100 percent convinced by the reasoning given for the shifting of this advice to another organisation. My first question would be what Housing New Zealand did to the Minister that she no longer wants to put into legislation that it should be the one advising her or this Government about housing. The Housing New Zealand Corporation has an extensive institutional knowledge around the history of social housing in this country, about the needs of social housing in this country. Why would the Minister and this Government put into the legislation that this organisation is not to advise the Minister of Housing? It does not mean that she cannot seek advice from other people. There is nothing needed there. You do not need to put into legislation that the Minister must seek advice only from Housing New Zealand. It bemuses us as to why an organisation that is entrenched in New Zealand history and that has seen and has institutional knowledge about what used to be, what is currently there, and about the pressures out there\u2014even though we would have to say that the measuring of the pressures out there is completely abysmal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWhat is happening in our area is that there are institutions, organisations, and NGOs saying do not bother telling the Housing New Zealand Corporation that you need a house, because, actually, there is no way on this planet that you are going to get one under this Government. So the need is not being clearly reflected. Perhaps that may be a reason why the Minister has decided that that advice needs to come from somewhere else. But it is a little bit like other pieces of legislation we have seen in this House\u2014it is the removal of the requirement to seek advice from; it is the removal of the role of somebody who actually has institutional knowledge to advise. We see Subpart 2 as being a really interesting place to go to. I certainly would welcome the opportunity for the Minister to rise and actually address that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWith regard to Subpart 3 and the amendments to the KiwiSaver Act 2006 we are seeing some other changes around the KiwiSaver Act, and none of them are actually to the benefit of the purpose that KiwiSaver was set up, to start with. The purpose of KiwiSaver was to incentivise and encourage New Zealanders to save towards their own retirement. I was the generation\u2014I am slightly older than the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022063aeded8c924d2187cd9cd255a59bbc\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2a8892d708c479d95f3b280fd646e62\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: I am slightly older\u2014slightly older than the Minister. She may look younger\u2014a lot younger than me\u2014but I am slightly older. We are of the generation that was told in the 1990s that there would be no retirement for us\u2014that there would be none and we were on our own. Have at it. But KiwiSaver came along as one of those backstops to start to encourage generations such as my own and then future generations to make sure we were able to somehow support ourselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThis clause gives the capacity to completely remove from KiwiSaver for a period of time any of your savings to put into housing, which is robbing Peter to pay Paul. From our perspective, Subpart 3 is not an answer to the housing crisis or the inability of young New Zealanders to actually afford to purchase housing. It is not a true answer. So we would again seek some clarity from the Minister as to why this Government believes that actually allowing people to dip into a \u201CPeter bucket\u201D to pay into a \u201CPaul bucket\u201D is logical at this time when we know, as Mr Hipkins said, we are going to have to make some adjustments\u2014and New Zealand First has its own theories about the adjustments that need to be made\u2014as our population ages and goes forward and more and more stress is placed upon that part of our taxation system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EFinally, in Subpart 1, \u201CGoods and Services Tax Act 1985\u201D, I think that personally I cannot find anything controversial in that particular area there. I guess what we are saying is that when the Government actually seeks a service from somebody else, it does not have to pay the tax. At the end of the day it is taxpayers\u2019 money. I can appreciate that taxpayers do not want to be paying again. I guess it is taking it from one bucket and sticking it into another, and that creates an administrative cycle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo on behalf of New Zealand First, just in closing, we would certainly seek some clarity around Subpart 2 from the Minister, if she is able to talk to us about why you would remove it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u002254f06133f50d4615b9f071449897bbd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254f06133f50d4615b9f071449897bbd6\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Can I welcome the Minister for Social Housing to the chair. She is the Minister in charge of this bill, so we expect her to actually address questions that are asked genuinely to her, rather than being mute and dumb in the chair. I have some questions that I need to ask about Part 2 of this bill. I am looking particularly at clause 20, which provides that Housing New Zealand does not have the purpose of providing policy advice, and clause 21, which says that Housing New Zealand research and monitoring does not include research and monitoring to advise on the policy issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI would have thought that the Minister would find it really useful to have an independent source of policy research and advice, rather than listening solely to right-wing ideologues and property speculators and drawing on their advice and encouragement in order to set policy. For example, Minister, if you had listened to the advice of Housing New Zealand rather than not listening to it, and now taking away its ability to give that advice, you would realise that your statement yesterday that you are providing $500,000 for emergency housing is practically meaningless. I have got a picture here of a house on the edge of my electorate of Mt Roskill. It is just in Mount Albert. It is a two-bedroom home unit. Do you know what that was selling for last week? It was selling for $797,000\u2014a two-bedroom unit. There it is\u2014a very modest little home unit. Apparently, the Minister does not understand that house prices for incredibly modest homes are now so high that people cannot aspire to homeownership, and people who are renting are being asked to pay higher and higher rents that are unaffordable, because the person who invests in that as a property investor wants to get a return on their capital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe know, Minister Bennett, that 40 percent of all homes purchased in Auckland are purchased by property speculators. I would have thought that you would know that, and had you listened to the advice of Housing New Zealand you would have been better informed about it. So you would not then, in your press statement, say: \u201CLook, I am dealing with the big problem of homelessness\u2014I am going to give emergency housing half a million dollars.\u201D You know what that will do, Minister? It will purchase half of that two-bedroom home unit. How is that going to address the problems of the shortage of accommodation and homelessness? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIf you had listened to Housing New Zealand, you would also have gotten some information from it, so that when you talked about supporting moves to housing independence, in your press statement\u2014I do not know who drafted that; great spin\u2014you would have known what those words actually meant. They meant that you were not moving 3,000 people to housing independence; you were evicting 3,000 people. Housing New Zealand, in its research and advice, would have told you that a lot of those people are people who are going to find it really hard to cope in the private housing sector. I was talking to a woman; she is on a reasonable income now, but she is crippled. The ministry spent, I think, $27,000 on the State house to adjust it for a person who needed wheelchair access and was not able to have mobility. Because of her income, she will now be put out in the private housing sector. The question I would like to ask the Minister, if she is listening to the advice of Housing New Zealand, is: what private landlord is going to spend $27,000 modifying a house to deal with the purposes of somebody who has not got mobility? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThen the Minister talks about increasing affordable housing supply. I know for a fact that Housing New Zealand would be able to tell the Minister that that simply is not happening; that instead of increasing affordable housing supply, its housing stock has been run down by 1,600 in the last 3 years. So here we are: we have got the worst housing crisis that Auckland has ever seen, and what is the Minister doing about it? She is depleting the stock of Housing New Zealand rental housing. A good policy-advice agency would have told her that, but clearly she is not getting that advice, and now, deliberately, she is saying\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u0022f93c3cc3b90b4da19a3affabcb2e0cb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f93c3cc3b90b4da19a3affabcb2e0cb4\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Looking through the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill, in particular Part 2, clauses 20 and 21, the theme that stands out\u2014the intent of this\u2014is that it is passing the buck. It is an absolute dereliction of duty by this Government to pass the buck, the responsibility of maintaining that safety net that I have mentioned previously in this House, and that the Government has a responsibility for maintaining and ensuring that it has integrity and that it catches those who fall. State housing is an integral part of that safety net. But what is happening now is, like I said, that dereliction of duty\u2014passing it on to NGOs, to community organisations that are underfunded, under-resourced, and understaffed, and they have to take the brunt of the effects and consequences of legislation like this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThere is a question that I need to ask\u2014and everybody should be asking, and the Government and the Minister for Social Housing, in particular, should answer\u2014how did it get to this stage in the first place? They can stand up and give the situation, and the reasons why it needs to happen now, but how did it get to that situation in the first place? Like Kris Faafoi has already mentioned, this has been happening slice by slice over the past 7 years, to get to this stage where there is some feasible reasoning in dreamland\u2014with all of the positive outcomes where the Government believes that it is all candyfloss and lollipops, that it can put this responsibility on to someone else and try to make it believable. But the question is: what are the real consequences for the people on the ground and the NGOs that have to take up all of these responsibilities? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI have got an example in Palmerston North, in my electorate where I am based, where we have got a trust, the Shepherd\u2019s Rest Trust, which houses over 60 of the most needy people. The trust had Ministry of Social Development funding, which was taken away. It had to get funding from the Lotteries Commission, and it was not renewed this year. And there is a potential, now, that there will be over 20 people without beds, unless a private organisation or NGO steps in and takes over from that trust. But what are the consequences? You have got the real responsibility of the Government, which needs to look after those needy people, being put on to the NGOs, which have not got the funding, have not got the resources, and are balancing on a knife edge about the funding and keeping those people with beds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe fact is that this legislation will make it even worse in the regions. What the concern is for New Zealand First is that this is going down the pathway a step closer to the voucher system in the social system, which Mr English was talking about. That spells doom for the regions, because what that means is that if it is not financially viable in the regions for branches to be open to look after the people, then they will close. And it is happening already. The Salvation Army has closed seven branches in the regions, and is bringing itself back to the main centres\u2014and we are talking about the two-tier system again. In closing, I would like the Minister and the Government\u2014any Government member, when they want to stand up\u2014to answer a simple question: what is the priority? Is it profit, or is it people? Because all the way through this legislation, and especially through Part 2, it all looks like it is about the bank balances, it is about the surpluses, it is about the profit, and it is not about the people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002269a7c0ed9cc44e1e811b941abe18197e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269a7c0ed9cc44e1e811b941abe18197e\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E Part 2, Subpart 1\u2014Goods and Services Tax Act 1985, clause 18, Section 5 amended (Meaning of term supply), new subsection (6F) reads: \u201CFor the purposes of this Act, the amount payable by the Crown or the agency under the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters Act 1992 under a reimbursement agreement or a tailored agreement under that Act for the provision of accommodation in social housing is treated as consideration for the supply of accommodation in a dwelling by way of hire.\u201D My issue with this particular amendment is that, first of all, it refers to something in Part 1 of the Act. I rose to take a point of order on that. It is actually incorrect. In New Zealand Statutes 1992, Volume 2, No. 76, Part 1\u2014which also is part of this, in Part 2 of the bill. I am doing this because it is every member of Parliament\u2019s obligation to make sure that even in legislation that you do not agree with, it is correct, because I do not want to see this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f54df6bc4ad48669771acaf94bf839f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Just one moment. Did you want a point of order, did you? Did you actually ask for a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acf16f6acb1040c7bde97781627eaa5e\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE\u003C/span\u003E: In the first part of the debate I did, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022581aff59774c44f8b125cb000493d3df\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK, sorry. This is not a point of order. OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228da4bebe04f74323b0103d819f3faa99\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE\u003C/span\u003E: In clause 4 of Part 1 of the bill, section 2 is amended. It refers to: \u201Creimbursement agreement means an agreement referred to in section 85(1)\u201D. In this statute book there is no section 85(1). It carries on to say \u201Csection 98(1)\u201D\u2014there is no subsection (1) of section 98. There is a difference between alphabetic and numeric\u2014there is a section 85(a), but no section 85(1).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ec6989b10b6494b80084d3100782978\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Come back to Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75e7be977774901a5f3ae21f554bd84\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE\u003C/span\u003E: I will come back to Part 2. Again, new section 5(6F), in clause 18, refers to those very matters\u2014\u201Ca reimbursement agreement or a tailored agreement\u201D. Those clauses in Part 1 give effect to this clause, and this clause now is redundant. In effect, what has been passed in Part 1 is also redundant. We will be seeing this come back, maybe as part of a Statutes Amendment Bill to correct it. This is wrong, and it is incumbent upon me to tell this Committee so. That is what we get when we rush legislation through this House. This is what we get when the members opposite sit in absolute silence and do not participate in the debate about this part here, Part 2. We need to hear from both the Minister and members opposite\u2014the Government\u2014about how they are going to correct this. This legislation is about to be passed in the next, maybe, 2\u00BD hours. So somehow between now and then we have to make sure that we do not add additional cost to the taxpayer and that we correct this to make it as good as it can be, because to do nothing would mean cost to this nation and I do not think that is good enough. I do not think it is good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI will refer to another part of Part 2, in particular Subpart 2\u2014Housing Corporation Act 1974, which amends section 3B. That is about the Minister receiving advice from the Housing New Zealand Corporation. I am certain that if this had gone through a robust, considered process, then we would not be in here talking about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5a6954f627a490ba4d6fbafab602417\u0022\u003EMeka Whaitiri\u003C/span\u003E: Errors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022079fc598c2994020981f58cd6ccfdcbe\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014errors within this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u002235fc34c1af2d46b299db5d65970214f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235fc34c1af2d46b299db5d65970214f2\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. T\u0113n\u0101 n\u014D t\u0101tou. I stand to talk to Part 2 of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. Can I say from the outset, and we all know this\u2014those of us in this Committee\u2014that the obligation of any Government is to protect the most vulnerable of our fellow citizens. I do not believe that this bill, this Part 2, actually holds true in this case. Having said that, and I say it with a certain weight on my heart, when I consider the former leaders of that once-respected party\u2014and I refer to Holland, Holyoake, Marshall, and Muldoon\u2014I am sure that all of them would be turning in their graves to see this bill come before this Committee, promoted by a National-led Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThis part of the bill, particularly clause 20, highlights and verifies what most of us on this side of the Committee believe: that this is the dismantling of our Public Service and, in this particular case, Housing New Zealand Corporation. This bill is not the beginning; it has already started.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267f53248c976456a8a835da809f4d0b5\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Do some research.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bceb451c9f8945c98c41ca34d2392e2b\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE\u003C/span\u003E: The member may say that it refers only to research, but what I am saying is that this is the seed for further things to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EReference was made by an earlier speaker that much of the work being done by constituent MPs is in addressing the accommodation and housing needs of the people in those electorates. Can I say that it is not only constituent MPs who have to deal with that but it is also list members like myself. This should not come as any surprise, because the constituent member in the particular electorate that I am responsible for happens to be a member of the National-led Government. So one needs to ask: who is going to undertake that research; who is going to do the monitoring; and what skills and experience will they have in order to ensure that the Minister does, in fact, receive the quality advice that he or she certainly deserves and certainly will need to ensure that this Government, and we in this House, fulfil our obligation to meet the housing needs of our fellow citizens?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI have heard reference to this bill as being one of flexibility and innovation. I do not think that there is anything new or innovative about removing the responsibilities for research and monitoring to another agency. I think the danger that we will see in all of this is that the long-term experience that the present agency has will be lost. I know that the M\u0101ori Party members have been very supportive of this bill. It behoves me to say that by giving their support to this bill, they are doing the people whom they represent a disservice, particularly in the regions that I come from. I do not believe that regions such as Whangarei will certainly be better serviced by this proposal and, in particular, by clause 20 of this bill. So I would ask that both the M\u0101ori Party and the National-led Government reconsider this. The fact that they are pushing this bill through by way of urgency suggests to me that they have already made up their minds and that they are not going to listen to any considered arguments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022314f51b01b90441381d488be844a8c5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022314f51b01b90441381d488be844a8c5b\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to address in this speech, largely, clauses 19 through to 21, but I would like to speak briefly to the other clauses in Part 2 of this legislation. I would like to reiterate the need for the Minister for Social Housing to answer the serious questions that my colleague Adrian Rurawhe addressed in his speech before. I think there are some very serious questions around the robustness of this legislation that need to be addressed by the Minister in the chair. We are passing this legislation under urgency. It is the function and, indeed, the responsibility of all members of this Committee to examine this legislation\u2014to read it and to question it\u2014and even, as my colleague Adrian Rurawhe said, if we do not agree with it, we must all work hard to ensure that it is good and robust legislation. That is our function as legislators, and, frankly, Government members on the benches opposite me are being absolutely negligent in their part in ensuring that this legislation is the best it can be under an urgency stage. They need to get on their pins, take a call, examine the legislation, and do the job that they were elected and paid to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI have some questions that I would like to hear the Minister answer, too. We still, throughout all these parts of this legislation, do not have any clarity around who is going to be taking over the function of providing monitoring and research around housing in New Zealand. These are, of course, the amendments to the Housing Corporation Act that are addressed under clauses 20 and 21 in this legislation. So I would like to hear the Minister take a call and give us some kind of indication. It is the kind of question that would have been asked at a select committee. It is the kind of question that we would have sought advice on from officials, around what the options were. I would like to hear the Minister put those options to it, because I have real concerns that we have all this talk from Government members around the flexibility around housing that is enshrined in this bill. A lot of it does come back to the advice that is offered under clauses 20 and 21 in Part 2 of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe have heard throughout other stages of this bill Government members talking about the need to make sure that we have housing that is fit for purpose and in the right location. In March this year I asked one of the Ministers with responsibility for housing, the Hon Bill English, some very specific questions about Housing New Zealand houses in my electorate, by suburb. I asked about individual suburbs, and I am questioning the advice and where this is going to come from under clauses 20 and 21 in Part 2 of this legislation. When I asked about housing in Riccarton, when I asked about housing in Addington, and when I asked about housing in Hoon Hay I was told that Housing New Zealand does not collect information by suburb. This Government is saying that it is making decisions about where housing needs to be based on information that it does not collect. I was told by the Hon Bill English that that information was collected by only local authority territorial units. Well, this bill covers hundreds of thousands of people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe are being told that this is the big society where communities are taking ownership, so I would like to hear from the Minister. I would like her to take a call and tell me who will be taking over this function. Who will be providing this granulated, localised, and community-driven information that will be required to deliver the outcomes that this bill purports to do? It is not being done at the moment, so where will that function lie? Frankly, I find it absurd that the Government is making decisions about localisation of housing when it does not even have the data, when it has not been collecting it, and when it has been collecting it only at a territorial local authority level. It simply does not stack up. So that is a question under this part that I would like the Minister to address. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI would also like to know about the kinds of research and monitoring that are going to be undertaken under these clauses in the bill. What are the things that are going to be examined? I want to know not only who is going to do the research and monitoring but what kind of research and monitoring it will be. Is it going to be about the livability of homes? Are we going to be collecting that not only at a local level but at a meta level? Will those questions being asked be the ones that are fit for purpose to actually genuinely\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002248be5e93f1e34de5b27d884308d0bc1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248be5e93f1e34de5b27d884308d0bc1b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Phil Goff. [Interruption] I am sorry; Phil Twyford. I got the \u201CPhil\u201D part right. Phil Twyford. [Interruption] My apologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002243acb437d9984501bdbeaeba24294e5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243acb437d9984501bdbeaeba24294e5b\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E It is the revenge of the Phils. Thank you, Mr Chairman. I was a bit worried, actually, because one thing I have learnt is that if you give Phil Goff half a sniff, he will grab the opportunity with both hands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ESpeaking to Part 2 of the bill, I want to make a point that relates to the argument that many of us have been making this morning about this bill, and that is the fact that National has been pushing this bill through the House under the cloak of Budget urgency with no apparent justification for why this bill needs to be passed today. I have not heard anything from any Minister in the chair or any of the Government members in this debate about why this bill has to be pushed through under urgency. But the pitfalls of that approach are actually contained within the clauses in Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EClause 18, which basically ensures that these new flexible purchasing agreements are exempt from GST, is a tidy-up. It is a tidy-up of previous legislative mistakes. Clause 23 amends the KiwiSaver Act so that membership in complying superannuation funds counts for the 3-year eligibility period for a first home withdrawal if a person transfers to KiwiSaver. This clause is cleaning up the mess left by the KiwiSaver HomeStart package and by the legislation that enables KiwiSaver withdrawals. So two clauses in Part 2 are evidence of this Government\u2019s previous botch-ups in passing laws in this House, but it does not seem to have learnt from its mistakes and it is pushing through this bill, under urgency, without any chance for scrutiny at the select committee, without any expert opinion, without the officials being able to take their time and look at the legislation, and without the public being able to come along and make submissions. You have to wonder whether clauses within this bill will end up back in the House in some kind of mopping up operation in the future, wasting taxpayers\u2019 money to clean up the mistakes that this Government has made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EClauses 20 and 21 are really symptomatic of this Government\u2019s systematic gutting of Housing New Zealand, the latest and perhaps the last indignity before the organisation is sliced and diced and handed out to anybody who will take it. With the removal of any kind of policy and research function, this bill basically takes away Housing New Zealand\u2019s mandate to do evaluations of its programmes. So it has now basically been reduced to a Government-owned version of Barfoot and Thompson instead of being a full-service social housing organisation devoted to meeting the needs of some of the most vulnerable New Zealanders. It is simply a letting agency. Its ability to manage the waiting lists, its ability to handle and assess eligibility has been hived off to the Ministry of Social Development. Its portfolio has been carved up and flogged off to anybody who will take it under other provisions in this bill. But these two clauses\u201420 and 21\u2014basically take away Housing New Zealand\u2019s ability to do research and, most important, to give advice on social housing to the Government of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EBut this Government does not want advice on social housing. It does not want to hear from people. We know that there is no evidence base for the Government\u2019s policy of flogging off State houses and devolving the job of providing social housing and State housing to the most vulnerable New Zealanders. There is no evidence for the assertion that the Government cannot do that job properly and that non-governmental organisations, charities, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all, who might come along and register as a community housing provider, private landlords, property developers, and anyone who meets the perfunctory requirements of being a social housing provider can line up and get these houses at knock-down prices. There is no evidence base for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u0022a90ca039e9fb4f75bf25d833005451d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a90ca039e9fb4f75bf25d833005451d4\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (Third Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00223b9d0e77c8d44b1db8be93c4b88e614e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b9d0e77c8d44b1db8be93c4b88e614e\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E Normally I would say I was pleased to be taking a call on a bill that talked about more flexibility in social housing, but unfortunately the title bears little relevance to anything in the bill, particularly in Part 2. Before I speak to the specifics\u2014and I want to speak particularly about clauses 20 and 21 in Part 2, I just want to talk about why members of Parliament come to Parliament, and why we seek to spend our Fridays, and our Saturdays for that matter, debating in this House. It is because every single member of Parliament, regardless of their party, I think, comes to Parliament because they think they can make a positive difference. They think they can make a positive contribution to a better New Zealand. So regardless of what their party is, that, I think, is the driver behind the intentions of all members of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EOne of the things that we have been particularly proud of in New Zealand is our commitment to social housing. That is because, as egalitarian New Zealanders, we think that it is just right\u2014it is fair\u2014that people should have a warm, dry, affordable home and be able to stay there and be part of their community. That has been an integral part of the fabric of our society for nearly a century since this Parliament first debated the introduction of social housing. It is something I am particularly proud of, especially when you go to other countries and see people living in appalling conditions. Of course we have State houses that are very run down in New Zealand. We have whole areas where we would like to see a lot of improvement done, but would it not be great if this Parliament could regain the sense of unity that we had 80 years ago when we introduced social housing and asked how we could do it better for the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBut the National Party, instead, is saying: \u201CWe do not think it is the Government\u2019s responsibility to operate State housing any more. We think we should sell it off.\u201D Well, I do not agree with that. I do not agree that it is a valid role of housing providers to provide social housing, with the Government completely out of the picture. Social housing providers have always worked in partnership with central government, and long may that partnership continue, whether it is the Salvation Army, or Comcare Trust, or the Methodist Mission, or Presbyterian Support\u2014any number of organisations that have done their bit alongside the Government to provide warm, dry, affordable houses, so that every member of our society can be safe and be part of a contributing community. That is not the aim of this bill at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EClauses 20 and 21 specifically outline the further withdrawal of Housing New Zealand from a very critical part of providing social housing, and that is in policy advice and in research and monitoring. How do we know what works and what does not, if Housing New Zealand\u2014the very agency that was responsible for providing social housing\u2014is no longer providing policy advice to the Government about social housing or doing any monitoring or research? How can we say our aim is to do things better in future if we are not getting any policy advice about how things are working at the moment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI want to challenge the backbench of the National Party to explain why they are putting their personal names alongside a bill that privatises social housing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d712cd440bf64d71b755a234193b0ad3\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it does not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a81dd543af549618763fb181eb75ff0\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and that says that Housing New Zealand will no longer be responsible for policy advice or for research and monitoring. Mr Bishop, I recommend some reading for you\u2014the bill would be a good starting place. The bill would be a really good starting place, because I am fed up with listening to interjections that are not truthful. They are not truthful, and your colleagues listen to them and think that when your untruths are repeated, they must be true. Well, actually, repeating something that is not true does not make it true. That is exactly what happens in respect of Part 2 of the bill, which we are debating now. I challenge Mr Bishop to stand on his hind legs and say that he has read the bill\u2014that would be a challenge\u2014and then to explain what it does. How can this bill possibly be accused of providing more social housing, more flexibility, warm and dry homes, or be accused of, as Simon Bridges, the Minister who was previously sitting in the chair, said, making time stand still? He said that under Labour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0bbaef36af74011a000b363da986ed0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0bbaef36af74011a000b363da986ed0\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to be able to speak to Part 2 of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. The title of Part 2 is \u201CRemedial and other matters\u201D, which may suggest to people who are reading this bill at home that there are just a few little rats and mice bits and pieces in Part 2. But, actually, clauses 20 and 21, in particular, have some very important changes to the way housing policy is developed in New Zealand, and to the way the Government takes advice on housing policy. Clause 20 actually says that Housing New Zealand no longer has the purpose of providing policy advice. You know, this is Housing New Zealand\u2014the clue is in the name about who is best positioned to provide housing advice to the Government. It might be, at a guess, the organisation called Housing New Zealand, but apparently that is not good enough for this Government. So I would like to know where the documentation is, since we are passing this bill under urgency, and since there has been no select committee process. Where is the evidence, where is the consultation process that the Government went through that led it to the conclusion that Housing New Zealand is not the best Government agency to provide advice on housing? Minister, please\u2014or maybe Chris Bishop; he has got a lot to say. Maybe he could actually get up and tell us where the idea came from that Housing New Zealand is not the Government agency to provide housing advice. I want to know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIf this bill went through the normal processes where the public actually got to come and have their say, where this was properly consulted on and considered, and we got to see the evidence, we might not agree with the position that the Government got to but we would have an idea of how it got there. It is absolutely the most important thing that the Government members get up and explain to us where this idea comes from, because at the moment on this side of the House, in the absence of that explanation, it looks like a pretty hare-brained scheme to us\u2014that Housing New Zealand is not the organisation that will provide housing. Maybe the Government has lost confidence in Housing New Zealand. I do not know\u2014maybe that is the reason why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI have absolute confidence in my local branch of Housing New Zealand. The people who work there are amazing. They would not say this, they would never say this, but my observation is that they suffer under absolutely appalling policy settings from this Government and they have to do things that they just do not believe in. They are committed public servants. They implement Government policy but they do it in a way that is as constructive as possible, and they know what the needs of their community are. They know the housing needs of their community, and maybe that is the exact reason why this Government does not want to get advice from them\u2014because the advice that they would give this Government is not what it wants to hear. I think that is the reason, and in the absence of any better explanation from the Government, I think we have to all assume that is the reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI hope the next call from the National Party is not a closure motion. I hope that it is actually an explanation of clause 20\u2014why it is necessary, and what led the Government to that decision. Clause 21 provides that research and monitoring by Housing New Zealand does not include research and monitoring to advise on policy issues. I am actually at a bit of a loss to know what research and monitoring function is actually going to remain required of Housing New Zealand, because it is no longer giving policy advice, it is no longer managing the waiting lists, and it is no longer interacting with the tenants. What research and monitoring does Housing New Zealand actually have to do, if it no longer has a policy function either? What will be done with that research and monitoring? Again, is this the kind of information that the Government does not want to listen to because it knows its policies are wrong, and it knows that if there is any consideration or sunlight applied to its policy at all, it will be found out for being full of holes? Is that why this Government wants to remove the monitoring function from Housing New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u0022dda355c86f1c4219a789497109c029dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dda355c86f1c4219a789497109c029dc\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (Third Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022510a9017534848dabaa286d13fcaf1fc\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: She has taken a call, I\u2019m sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002272d9a93cb5d146739d585b42c43b4a7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272d9a93cb5d146739d585b42c43b4a7f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, there are no restrictions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0a5a795d12f49068c89ea41601c88bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0a5a795d12f49068c89ea41601c88bc\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chairman\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a061243115746a1ba19d4dc78b1e9ac\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I just want to clarify something. There is no restriction on the number of closures that a member can take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5d6d341bdce46dea75b463d4286e562\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chairman. There used to be, did there not? So there must have been a change in the Standing Orders to allow a person to take more than one closure motion. But thank you, Mr Chairman, for telling us what we ought to know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI want to address this part of the bill\u2014Part 2, \u201CRemedial and other matters\u201D. I too want to go to the area around the functions of the Housing New Zealand Corporation and the role that it is going to play. You see, it is under \u201CRemedial and other matters\u201D, which I found very interesting, because anyone who knows the meaning of \u201Cremedial\u201D knows that it means \u201Csupplying a remedy\u201D. I cannot see what remedy is being supplied under this part of the bill. It is meant to correct or improve deficient skills, so I can only assume that the Minister for Social Housing thinks that there are deficient skills in Housing New Zealand, and I want to dispute that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI want to start from the position that one of the features of a National Government\u2014and it goes back many years; some of us experienced it when we came into Government\u2014is this drive to stop policy making by Government departments and others, to drive out the policy-making part and contract it out to somebody else. That was the history in the health portfolio. The policy function of the Ministry of Health was driven out and put into other agencies. I am asking the Minister why she would not want to have policy advice from Housing New Zealand\u2014the very agency that has for so long been working with tenants, that has been working in the community, and that has very, very competent staff, who are able to provide the sort of advice a good Minister would want. Why would the Minister remove this role from Housing New Zealand? Who will replace it in this role? Where will the advice, the on-the-ground advice that a Minister would want, come from, Minister? Would you be able to answer that shortly? Where will this policy advice come from? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EOne of the problems for a Government is when it thinks it has got all the answers itself\u2014when it does not think it needs good strong policy advice from its own agencies. It seems to me that the Minister has decided that she does not like the advice she has got from the Housing New Zealand Corporation. I know that it has raised a few issues, actually, with the Minister in relation to some policy, and I think that this is a way of getting rid of that sort of advice. The Government does not want anybody that might contradict the direction and the path it is taking in housing. So, Minister, please tell us who will replace Housing New Zealand in providing advice on policy? When we look at this particular piece of legislation we see in the regulatory impact statement that no evaluation was done on it, and that Treasury did not even do an evaluation on this policy that is before the Committee today. So who is going to do the evaluation and provide the advice on future housing policy? I think that is a very serious question that needs to be answered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThen we find out that the intent of this particular part of the bill is that \u201Cthe Corporation will no longer be expected to undertake research and evaluation activities for the purpose of advising the Minister of Housing\u201D. So who is going to undertake the research and evaluation? It is not Treasury. It is not Housing New Zealand. Who is it that is going to undertake this very serious function that must be undertaken when formulating very good policy? This is a huge gap in this Government\u2019s approach to policy making. Get rid of the agency that would help with it, get rid of any advice that it is going to give and any evaluation\u2014this seems to me to be a very short-sighted approach, Minister, when it comes to Housing New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI agree with my colleague who just resumed his seat, Iain Lees-Galloway, that Housing New Zealand for decades has provided incredibly good advice. It has some excellent people working in it. You know, if you go to your own Housing New Zealand offices when the doors are open and you can get in\u2014because, of course, the doors are closed now and you have got to ring up to get inside the door\u2014and if you have a close relationship with your local branch of Housing New Zealand, you will find people very knowledgable about what is going on in your area. They can provide the quality advice to a Minister on the ground. They are good people. But, unfortunately, I think this Minister is going down the same track that she went down when she was Minister for Social Development, because if you go to Work and Income offices now you will find a very demoralised bunch of people\u2014people who used to care a lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002293897fe200034602b99aa289d5869d8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293897fe200034602b99aa289d5869d8c\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E Following on from my colleague the Hon Annette King, there is the question of who will provide advice if this bill is passed and we remove the ability of Housing New Zealand to do so. The question of why that advice should be provided is also one that I will come back to. In my view the \u201Cwhos\u201D\u2014that is, if we prevent Housing New Zealand providing that advice; that vacuum\u2014will be filled by three parties: firstly, the real estate agents, because the Government likes them; secondly, the banks; or, thirdly, the investors in the whole housing market. The reality is that the Minister will require advice. Capable as she is I do not think she has the ability to go around and find out what is happening in each and every different market for housing up and down this country. So where will the advice to the Minister come from? Real estate agents\u2014well, I guess they could provide advice; they are on the ground. The banks\u2014they provide the money. And the investors obviously have an interest in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWell, we must ask the question why they will provide the advice, because when Housing New Zealand provides advice it is for one purpose\u2014and it has been set up\u2014and that is to help New Zealanders into housing and into homes. It is not just social housing; actually, every bit of housing, be it in the public or private sector, has a social component to it. If we think we can have an economy without people having homes, we have got our head in the sand and we live in a false world. We need a strong social structure across our society, strength, confidence, and security to give us a good economy. The Government, on the other hand, is removing the ability of its own agency set up right back in the 1930s to provide houses and homes for New Zealanders and to provide security for our good people so they can get on and live their lives and contribute to our country and our economy. If you remove that ability for that agency to provide the advice, you then leave it open to the real estate agents, the banks, and the investors. Their reasons for providing advice are not the same reasons as those of Housing New Zealand and are not the same reasons as those of a Labour Government, but perhaps the National Government has a totally different objective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIn spite of its words around social housing responsibility, in my view, the Government has got to the reality and honesty of saying \u201CWe\u2019ll just leave it to the markets. We don\u2019t need any advice because the markets will provide the advice to the Minister and indicate what he or she should do.\u201D That is the philosophy of the current National Government. The market delivers nirvana! The market delivers to each and every New Zealander\u2014it thinks\u2014and we will get our advice from the real estate agents, we will get our advice from the banks and the investors, and we will ensure that every New Zealander has a fair go. Listen to the ad played in Singapore, Minister. Listen to the ad that says: \u201CInvest in New Zealand, because New Zealanders will pay more than 50 percent of their incomes to pay the return on your investment.\u201D That is the advice that the Minister is going to open her mind and ears to, because the Minister and the Government are going to remove the ability of the one agency set up in the 1930s to provide homes and securities for New Zealanders, and remove the ability of that agency to provide the advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis is a huge backward step in Part 2. This is an outrage for a country that has depended upon the advice, the independent advice, and the sound objectives of Housing New Zealand since the 1930s. Subpart 2 of Part 2 of this bill will remove that and replace it with market advice\u2014with the self-serving advice of real estate agents, the self-serving advice of banks that want to pour more money in so they can get more money back, and the self-serving advice of the investors who think it is better that more and more New Zealanders pay rent into the private sector than have the security of a home, be it in the private sector or be it under Housing New Zealand. This is a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00220c36751ae534456a81811b0738610bf0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c36751ae534456a81811b0738610bf0\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I just thought it was important to tie up a couple of things, as we have heard quite a few speakers. They are repeating themselves, and so, obviously, there are a couple of issues here. So let us be clear on something: housing policy changes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022923481ed91954995af5498165811be93\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Your side doesn\u2019t even speak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecbc0e6046dd4f9e9e14b3f1b4643dce\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, here it is. Here are the answers that you wanted. Housing policy changes were actually reported back from the Social Services Committee on 12 May 2011. They have been to select committee, and they have just been repackaged into this bill. Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment staff, to be quite clear, have been undertaking policy advice in lieu of Housing New Zealand since June 2011. Since June 2011\u2014[Interruption] It is coming. This is an opportunity for us to tidy up what is in the bill, which says that Housing New Zealand does it. So we have changed it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cc550f00145477daf2b192ac85332e9\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: So under urgency we need to tidy this up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a5bbd1674ad4e919b350188c08fa027\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: No, actually, it is mainly the first part, but I am not going to talk about Part 1; we are talking about Part 2. To be quite clear: the questions that have been asked have been around that. It made sense to tidy up that Housing New Zealand no longer provides the policy advice, which it has not been providing now for 4 years. Actually, that whole advice part of it\u2014what needs to be done\u2014is more than just Housing New Zealand. This is about providing advice to the community housing sector and about making sure that we are seeing the needs of the whole community and not just of one player. It may be a big player and a significant one\u2014one that I, of course, meet with incredibly often and take its advice\u2014but that advice goes through the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, which means that we are looking at the sector as a whole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe other part of it, which I thought I should just quickly clear up, is that there were questions earlier about subsections and the existing sections. It is obvious for those who have been around longer, which is why I do not think we have had more on it. It is a drafting convention that when subsections are added, the existing sections become subsections. So if you have got section 98, when you put in a section 98(2), then section 98 becomes section 98(1). That is why you cannot find section 98(1). It is because, as a convention, it will become that once we have made the changes. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c46ad666a1e2431fab1a937edd63280c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c46ad666a1e2431fab1a937edd63280c\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to take a call on this second part of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill and respond to the Minister for Social Housing\u2019s comments where she said that Housing New Zealand has not been providing advice to the Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df15918496444ccba614814a37d948df\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: For 4 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c91492b38adb4860a03afbb56b063510\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for 4 years\u2014since 2011. Does it not show? Does it not show? I think that is one of the major issues here. It is that the Government is divorcing the practical realities of the decisions it is making from the advice it is getting on those decisions, and it is not working. I will speak about the experience I have encountered in my own electorate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EPreviously, Housing New Zealand had, if you like, three broad functions: the provision of the housing, advice on the housing, and identifying the people who were going into the housing. Identifying the people who were going into the housing was transferred to Work and Income, and as a result we now have a mismatch between the housing available and the people who qualify to get it, because Housing New Zealand no longer has\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9eb3b57a49b4705969ca567d92bba34\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: With National it\u2019s about the people in need, not about who owns the house.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223408cab73549408195b9974ab160bd24\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I am looking forward to Brett Hudson\u2019s contribution because, like most of the people over there, he has had a National Party lobotomy and does not seem to have his own opinion any more and therefore has only the option of being rude to other people because he is not willing to stand up and share with the House his own opinion. As I was saying, the Government has divorced from Housing New Zealand decisions regarding who gets the houses, so Housing New Zealand no longer has the complete picture of the people who are likely to be in need. That has an impact, then, on its ability to deliver policy advice to the Government. One of the issues there is that the complete picture of who the people in need are is now actually quite difficult to ascertain. Housing New Zealand has cut off the lower two tranches of the waiting list so that we now no longer have any record of the people who are at that lower level. That is a policy issue that Housing New Zealand could be supplying advice to the Government on, and it is now no longer able to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EHere is the real reality of what these changes have actually meant. I think we can look at the policy and we can look at all of the theory behind it. Let us deal with the practical realities of what it has meant. What it has meant is that on a Friday afternoon I have got people sitting in my office saying: \u201CI am living in a car. There are three-bedroom houses empty in this area, but because I qualify for a four-bedroom house, Housing New Zealand will not place my family.\u201D That is a practical reality. That is an actual case that I have been dealing with for some months, where Housing New Zealand will not give that family a home because they qualify for a four-bedroom home. There are no four-bedroom houses available, there are empty three-bedroom houses available, but it will not place them in a three-bedroom house. That is the practical reality of the policies we are dealing with. And Housing New Zealand, of course, can no longer provide the Government practical advice on that, because the policy function it previously had is being removed from it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThere is good reason why the delivery agencies, the agencies responsible for delivering on the policy, should be able to provide policy advice to Ministers on the implications of the decisions Ministers make. The implications of the decisions Ministers have made in social housing policy are that they have actually made it more difficult for people to get into Housing New Zealand homes, more difficult to target assistance to those who most need it. I have got no problem with our looking at the ways we can better support those who are the most vulnerable and most need it. The practical realities are that that is not happening, and that there are very needy families out there who are living in cars. The family I mentioned before have got a number of kids. That is why they qualify for the four-bedroom home. The kids are staying with someone else; the parents are living in the car. That is just not acceptable. Then, of course, Housing New Zealand will offer them a place that is in another city. It will say: \u201COh, we\u2019ve found a four-bedroom place for you, but you\u2019re going to have to move 100 kilometres away.\u201D They have to uproot their kids from their schools and all those sorts of things. It is just not right. This family would be willing to accept a 3-bedroom house, but Housing New Zealand will not give it to them. I think that is wrong. That is the practical reality of the policy we are passing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt is important that when Ministers make decisions about these issues, they are connected to the practical realities that those decisions result in, and that is not going to happen with this bill. The reforms simply are not working. If they were designed to ensure that the needs assessment process was more efficient and that the advice coming to Ministers was better, that is not happening. The needs assessment is not more efficient. What it is resulting in is further delays for the most needy people who really should be getting placed in housing. They get shoved from one agency to another and then back again. The policy advice process that should support the needs assessment process is not there and is not robust enough, because the agency now providing the policy advice, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, is completely removed from the actual provision of housing and the practical implications of that. It says everything about this Government\u2014that it has handed over the responsibilities for advice on housing to the agency that is responsible for property speculation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u00224867e98e609844e0a55964ad860c2525\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224867e98e609844e0a55964ad860c2525\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00220fe459b052544973b5ea36f30c4f0e13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fe459b052544973b5ea36f30c4f0e13\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E This Budget has been labelled by the Government as the \u201Ccompassionate, conservative Budget\u201D. These clauses, clauses 20 and 21 of this bill, the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill, show that it is a \u201CCabinet club conservative Budget\u201D, because it is taking a Public Service housing provider, ripping the guts out of it, and, in Part 2 of this bill, removing from it even the ability to advise the Minister for Social Housing on policy issues. Here is how. Clause 20 says that Housing New Zealand Corporation will give no policy advice. Clause 21 says that when it does research, that research will not be on policy issues. In other words, no non-commercial function will be performed by Housing New Zealand Corporation. Housing New Zealand Corporation is going from being a provider of houses to vulnerable families who need help to, essentially, a commercial landlord. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ELet us look at what would be some of the advantages of an agency like Housing New Zealand continuing to be empowered to give policy advice. First, as my colleague Annette King has mentioned, is that it has history. It has managed the portfolio for decades. It knows, literally, where the renovations and the skeletons are buried, and it knows what needs doing. There is nobody better placed than the organisation to advise on its portfolio and the needs therein. Secondly, up until recent times, the corporation had the most contact with its clients. If you had a problem of maintenance or a problem of prioritisation, you would go and see the corporation. Because it had the stock and the client contact, it was best placed to put the two together, come up with a reasonable set of priorities, and get the families who most needed the help into the properties that were most suitable for them. The Government has made that more difficult because, instead of going to Housing New Zealand Corporation, the poor families now have to go to the Ministry of Social Development or Work and Income. They are already overloaded. They are slapping and packing people through those waiting lists every 5 minutes, and those are the performance indicators that the poor old Work and Income staff are under. They have to move them through. They do not have the expertise or the time to deal with these critical issues of where a family are going to live. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe next thing, of course, is that Housing New Zealand Corporation has got a local footprint. It has got houses in each area of the country. It knows its stock and it knows the communities the houses are in. Why would you not want the corporation advising on policy issues? Of course, if you are not going to have that, what happens? Well, the first thing is that you do not have contestable policy advice. The Government makes itself more vulnerable to input from the vested commercial interests, the banks that are making a crazy killing off house mortgages, the property investors, and the organisations that represent them. Even the social service providers like the Salvation Army have said: \u201CNo, thanks, we don\u2019t want to play this game, because you\u2019re giving us the liability without the assets. We can\u2019t cover it.\u201D The Government cannot get decent advice from them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ELet us sum up. By taking away the policy functions from the corporation, Minister, you have made clients more vulnerable. You are not getting the advice you need to get from the people best placed to give it, who have the history in the organisation, who are close to the clients, who have the deep knowledge of the housing stock that is being managed, and who do not have vested interests that are in conflict with the public good. There is no basis in logic for the clauses we are debating in Part 2. Why are they there? And, more important, why are we here in urgency trying to pass this through all stages without even giving the public the opportunity to make a submission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d959869580b74681a09b2053d8316eb1\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve been waiting for 4 years, she said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284c3e2a1cf554c77a5408d843c78078c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: It has been 4 years in the waiting. Why is this happening under urgency? The reason is because the Government knows that reasonable New Zealanders do not like this stuff. They do not like this stuff, so the sooner this is wrapped, packed, under the carpet, and out of the public gaze, the happier the Government spin doctors will be. The Government does not want to hear from New Zealanders. It does not want New Zealanders having a say because it knows that the average, decent Kiwi thinks it is a no-brainer that, of course, Housing New Zealand Corporation should be able to advise on housing issues. Why on earth would it not? Why are these clauses in the bill? Firstly, Minister, if you are really honest in your heart of hearts, it is because you do not want to hear the advice. It is not good advice because the news is all bad. The waiting list is getting longer and longer. The needs are getting greater and greater. Just like Chris Hipkins, Annette King, Ruth Dyson, and Damien O\u2019Connor, I have my office overflowing with hard-up Kiwi families who need help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00223221b32b78c9442897bd23c68964f16e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223221b32b78c9442897bd23c68964f16e\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022240efb1d2aa544d28c3be3169b33d1f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022240efb1d2aa544d28c3be3169b33d1f4\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I have not had an opportunity in this stage of the debate to make a contribution, and there are some specific clauses that I wish to speak to. What remedy is available to me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00228acd7d890227442e9a0a257275806ba2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228acd7d890227442e9a0a257275806ba2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: The member may be seated. We had a substantial discussion at the time of the closure motion last time. I am not going to be going through that every time. The member will know that the next clauses we will be debating are very wide ranging and will cover this part and others. I am fully expecting, and looking forward to, members using the whole gambit of their colourful vocabularies, in a seemly matter, to have a lively discussion and debate on those clauses. The motion will be put and we will continue with the vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bfcd62624db04b1f932ae32929ed656e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bc66987a125d48018c247f9bbcb7a6f9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225bfc0294b9624922ba2b0e35fad68d06\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00221f0c6c06856f4af1b621d34add2d6587\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f0c6c06856f4af1b621d34add2d6587\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for your advice earlier, Mr Chair. I do appreciate it, and I appreciate the opportunity to make a wide-ranging contribution to this debate. I do feel strongly about this, but I will certainly be speaking, though, to one clause in the bill, and that is clause 2, the commencement of the Act and of Subpart 3. I wish for the House to consider that we change the commencement date to 1 April 2018. I think that way we could be certain that a Government that cares about State housing and a Government that cares about our most vulnerable will be in Government, and we can have that debate again. We can ensure that this bill is never implemented. That will be what I will move, and that is for the reasons that I am now about to give. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWhat has happened here with this bill is that we are rushing it through the House without the opportunity for public input. It is a bill deliberately designed to reduce State housing in this country. It is designed to take the Government out of the provisions for social housing. As we have heard from many members in this House, the problem with that is that the private market is not delivering the affordable and adequate social housing that is desperately needed in our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI will give another example that has not been brought up. This is an example of a woman whom I met just last weekend on one of my home visits in the suburb of Wakari. I went to visit this woman, and she said she was quite happy for me to tell her story because she feels strongly about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a382081cb48d4f44b5417be9c9aa6eb7\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Where?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227099be997a49474e9462bb19f4e5f692\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: What suburb?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3a7001f6acf40b9b8889cb949863418\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Wakari, in Dunedin. She said to me that she is fearful that she will not be allowed to stay in her State house any longer. It is a three-bedroom State house. She is now living on her own, but she uses the other two bedrooms frequently to take care of her grandchildren when her son is called to work at short notice. She has grandchildren whom she cares for in that house. She has lived in it for a good chunk of her life because, for one reason or another, she has never had the opportunity or the prospect of affording to buy her own home. She would love to, but she has never been in a position to afford her own home. So the State has said: \u201CLook, we will look out for you. You are a good contributor to our society.\u201D She has always worked, up until recently. She is now unable to find work as she rapidly approaches retirement. She has been made redundant several times. There is simply just not enough work in Dunedin for this woman, who would like to work like she has her whole life, in order to keep affording a standard of living that we could call living with dignity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EShe tells me that now she has to save to buy a cup of coffee. She has got a good friend who rings her up every week and says: \u201CLet\u2019s go out for coffee.\u201D She is embarrassed by the fact that she cannot go out every week with that friend because she cannot afford the cup of coffee. When she has paid her insurance, which she does refuse to give up\u2014and she says that that is discretionary\u2014she has only $20 left over every week with which to feed herself. She has an elderly dog that she refuses to give away and that she has cared for for many years. She said: \u201CThat dog eats pretty close to $20 worth of dog food a week.\u201D She has got nothing\u2014absolutely nothing\u2014to live off each week. When she goes to get a haircut, her kids donate her money to get it. That is not the kind of living in dignity that we would want for our citizens. That is not the New Zealand I signed up to, where someone who has worked for their whole working life bar the last few years, because they cannot get work, is forced to worry about whether they are going to have a stable place to live and whether they can care for their grandchildren adequately. Even now she is living in a house that is fairly cold, I would have to say, from having visited her. She is a good woman. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe need to make sure that in our society there is adequate protection and that people who are in need are looked out for and looked after so that they can continue to make a constructive contribution to our society, through the caring for grandchildren, through the voluntary community work that that woman does, and through other means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe point that I want to come back to is that the case for this particular intervention has not been made, because there is a market failure. I mentioned this in my earlier contribution, the market failure that sees many families who want to get into affordable houses being unable to get into them and families who want to provide warm, dry homes for their kids to live in being forced into the private market because of unmet need in the State sector. Those people are in a position where they cannot\u2014they cannot\u2014get what they need out of the private sector. If we had an adequate State housing sector, that would force private sector providers to meet that need at the level that the State housing sector meets it and it would address that market failure and the unintended consequences we see in the existing market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EOne thing that I have noticed in all of the legislation that has gone through the House is that there has been a lack\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022274593f49aaf420ab43b8d016700577e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022274593f49aaf420ab43b8d016700577e\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much for the chance to speak on the title and commencement clauses of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. This is one of those points in the Committee stage when we get to proffer some alternative titles for the piece of legislation. I have got a pretty simply one\u2014just one: it is that we change the title to \u201CSocial Housing Reform (State House Sell-off) Bill\u201D, because, in all reality, that is what this is about. There has been a programme over time, since this Government took office, to slowly move back from taking any responsibility for social housing in New Zealand. I would challenge any member on the other side of the Chamber to take a 5-minute call\u2014none of these 30-second calls that they have been taking\u2014to try to say why this is not a State house sell-off bill, because that is exactly what this is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EPart 2 of this bill looks at some of the policy advice that Housing New Zealand will no longer be offering to the Government. It has offered, over time, lots of advice to the Government. Just some of the advice that Housing New Zealand has offered to the Government is about one cul-de-sac in Porirua. It is not about whether the Government should upgrade those houses or look at making sure that we do more for those communities. It is about Quotable Value. It is about getting those houses ready for sale. There is no plan or advice from Housing New Zealand to replace those houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIf anyone in this House wants to come to Calliope Crescent in Cannons Creek, they will see that there is a big swathe of land there that has been empty for about 5 years. When those houses were taken away, the Government promised that it would replace them and that that community would flourish again. But nothing has happened. Kids now use the land for games of touch, because there is a park there now. This Government should have stuck to its word and should have replaced the homes that it bowled over. It should have put houses there, for that community to flourish. But no, there is nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere is only one side of this equation that the Government is interested in, and that is getting rid of State homes. It is not interested in replacing them at all, and that is the cold hard reality of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ae43509e6f3431ba0391a55f1749cc5\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve still got 65,000 of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db26421fd475485ebb9128fa8b2a9609\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: I can hear some interjections. Those interjections are longer\u2014longer\u2014than the speeches that members on that side have given. So I challenge the member who is interjecting to get to his feet. If you are so proud of this piece of legislation, get up and take a call\u2014get up and take a call. I will make another invitation. Come to my area and spend just half a day looking around, and see how proud you are of the last 7 years of wrecking the Housing New Zealand sector in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAs I said in my speech on Part 1, I came to this Parliament in order to protect and build on some of the opportunities that I was given as a child to make sure that I got to the privileged position I am in today. But on the other side of the Chamber, they want to keep the privileged position that they have got today for them and their privileged friends. They do not care about the most vulnerable people in our country, who are struggling to make ends meet. They have the most simple of rights in this country, and that is to have a good safe warm home\u2014a roof over their heads. That is too much for this Government to ask. The Government is glossing it up in the language of flexibility, and it is taking a fair bit of flexibility with the truth. That is the reality of what this Government is doing. For 7 years it has been slowly winding back its responsibilities for social housing. So I do think that this bill should have its title changed to the \u201CSocial Housing Reform (State House Sell-off) Bill\u201D, because that is all it enables this Government to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAt the very beginning of this plan, this Government said that the likes of the Salvation Army would be interested in purchasing these homes, in working in our communities, and in making the lives of these people better. Uh-uh, it is not interested. The Salvation Army does not want a bar of it. I have spoken to a local iwi that also has experience in this area. Iwi members say it does not make sense for them to do it. So if the market does not work for them, and if the market is not working for these vulnerable people, then on whom does the responsibility fall to make sure that people get a decent home in New Zealand? It should fall on the Government. This piece of legislation sees this Government washing its hands of this responsibility. Come to Cannons Creek, come to Ascot Park, and come to Titahi Bay, where there are vacant Housing New Zealand homes and people desperate to get into them. Government members will not, because they do not care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac9a5e61220d4e00abe72df61d147f35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac9a5e61220d4e00abe72df61d147f35\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to take a call on the preliminary clauses of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill, and a very inappropriately named bill it is. What they should really call it is the \u201CSocial Housing Reform (Wholesale Privatisation) Bill\u201D because that is exactly what this bill is really about. It is about the Government abrogating its responsibilities when it comes to the provision of affordable, quality rental housing to those New Zealanders who are not in a position to buy their own home. It has been a long-held tradition in New Zealand that the State will ensure that its citizens are adequately housed. From the time of the first Labour Government that built so many of the State houses that the National Government is now content to hock off, we have had a tradition in New Zealand that the State will be an active player in the housing area, so that families have a warm, dry home and a roof over their heads. This Government is walking away from that principle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI think of the areas like P\u014Dmare, Trentham, and Naenae where, under this National Government, we have seen houses boarded up and abandoned, only to then be demolished and that land handed over to private developers. It is not just in my area that that is happening, it is happening up and down the country. I have made it very clear from the beginning of that process that the provision of the ultimate number of social houses\u2014that is, affordable rental houses for people on low incomes\u2014is not decreased. I think it is good that there should be some redevelopment\u2014that there should be some rebuilding. Some of those houses are past their use-by date and need to be replaced. I would not accommodate people in some of those houses. I do not think they are fit for families, and demolishing them and replacing them is good. But it should not be at the expense of the overall number of affordable houses. Reconfiguring those neighbourhoods is the legitimate thing to do, but what is the practical reality we are seeing? In P\u014Dmare there is a good redevelopment happening, but most of those houses are privately owned. Where did those families go, which the National Government booted out? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThere were some social issues in P\u014Dmare, caused by a very small number of people, I have to say. There are a large number of people there who were good law-abiding citizens, just trying to make their way in the world, who got treated very harshly by Housing New Zealand and by the other Government agencies involved in that. But the problems in P\u014Dmare have not gone away just because the houses have been demolished. They have been relocated elsewhere. We are seeing problems emerging in other parts of the electorate, in other parts of the Hutt Valley, where some of the people who were causing the problems in the first place have simply relocated to. The problems did not go away. The Government\u2019s busting up of the P\u014Dmare community in the way that it did did not deal with the issue and it did not deal with the problem. Wholesale privatisation of that social housing market is not going to make any of the problems go away; in fact, it is going to make some of those problems worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe bill could easily be called the \u201CSocial Housing Reform (Increasing Intergenerational Inequality) Bill\u201D because the Government seems to have given up on the notion that future generations of New Zealanders should have the same access to affordable housing, to buy or to rent, that previous generations had. The Government is giving up on that notion altogether. First-home buyers are being shut out. The only solution to giving first-home buyers a bit of additional assistance is to allow them to cash up their retirement savings\u2014more of their retirement savings\u2014to buy their first home. It could be called the \u201CPractical Reality Bypassing Bill\u201D because the Government is now going to be ignoring advice from Housing New Zealand. It is interesting\u2014we could call it the \u201CAbrogation of Responsibility Bill\u201D because, despite the fact that we have now got three Ministers in the Government responsible for social housing, none of them seem to be willing to participate actively in the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI do have a technical question regarding clause 2, which covers the superannuation provisions coming into effect on, or basically being backdated from, 1 April 2015. The question I have got is does that mean that people who transferred from a non - KiwiSaver scheme into a KiwiSaver scheme prior to 1 April 2015 will not be eligible, or does it mean that, basically, providing they had done it by that point, they would be covered by this provision in the bill? I think it would somewhat thwart the intention, given that most people in KiwiSaver would have joined up before 1 April 2015. It somewhat thwarts the intention of what they are trying to achieve\u2014and I am sure the Minister in the chair will be able to answer. It is a pretty simple, straightforward question, I would hope. It seems to me that the idea behind the backdating is that providing someone had done it by that point, they should be eligible. I certainly look forward to having that clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022148ba4ebbf1a40c08da826374dd90408\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022148ba4ebbf1a40c08da826374dd90408\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E This bill, I think, instead of being called the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill, should actually be called the \u201CFlog Off State Housing to the National Party\u2019s Property Developer Mates Bill\u201D. That would be a far more accurate representation of what this bill is about. It is, on the surface, some little sort of vanilla kind of enabling legislation, allowing more flexible purchasing contracts. But, actually, what this bill is designed to do is to give the Minister extraordinary discretionary powers to do sweetheart deals with property developers. Instead of simply, as the current law allows, being allowed to extend income-related rent subsidies to the people who buy these State houses from the Government, this bill gives the Minister wide-ranging powers to do any kind of deal\u2014to crank up the subsidies, crank them down, or to do away with the subsidies and just agree on direct payments. It gives amazing freedom and discretion to the Minister to do those sweetheart deals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe reason that the National Government is giving itself these powers is that it cannot give these houses away at the moment. It spent months saying that the Salvation Army was going to take them, and that ended in tears when the Salvation Army said: \u201CSorry, not us.\u201D Paula Bennett, Nick Smith, and Bill English have been travelling up and down the country basically trying to hock off these houses to anyone who will take them, and they are not getting any takers. This bill is about giving the Minister the freedom to do sweetheart deals, or anything it takes, to basically offload billions of dollars\u2019 worth of publicly owned State houses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt could be called the \u201CCabinet Club Housing Policy Bill\u201D because what is really going on here, at the heart of this policy\u2014when you strip away Paula Bennett\u2019s mealy-mouthed platitudes about social housing\u2014is a massive transfer of wealth from the public to private landlords and property developers. The Government is looking at divesting and flicking off billions of dollars\u2019 worth of State houses that have been paid for by generations of taxpayers and State house tenants\u2014flicking them off at knock-down prices to anybody who will take them. Those houses will then go on to the open market and people will make a killing on those houses. I guarantee that they will end up eventually just simply being rented back to the same people, who need a decent roof over their heads, but this time they will be paying higher rents and the taxpayers will make up the difference with a hefty subsidy directly into the pockets of landlords. That is the model that Bill English is pursuing. It is a huge transfer of wealth from the public to private landlords and property developers\u2014that is fundamentally what is going on here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe saw recently, in the New Zealand Herald, reports of how the National Party funded its election campaign last year. The big cheques were made out by property developers. This policy is the big payback\u2014it is the big pay-off. That is what the Cabinet club is all about. It is about giving big business\u2014in this case, property developers and big landlords\u2014the opportunity to put their hands in the public pocket and benefit from billions of dollars\u2019 worth of State housing that generations of New Zealanders have paid for. State housing is not intended to line the pockets of private landlords, as this National Government wants to do, but to put a decent roof over the heads of the most vulnerable New Zealanders. Nothing rankles more with New Zealanders than that basic idea that the reason we have a Government is to make sure that things work for everybody\u2014that every kid in this country gets a decent start in life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204a6fbf437d04bc697289268b0d15190\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019re raising benefit levels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259a4420b996c414ebd2695bd629d18c9\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: That is why, Chris Bishop, we invented State housing in the first place. And I know that your party has never had any truck with State housing. You do not like it, you do not believe in it, and you do not want to have anything to do with the people who live in State housing because it makes you profoundly uncomfortable. The social and economic system that you stand for does not care what happens to the bottom 20 percent. You do not give a damn about it and you are quite happy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d881eea10dd34cfdafb3ab6615dd3c41\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7837a7b50a24b03a557e14b7b74bfa0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: There is a point of order. [Interruption] Sit down when I am on my feet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022580ec30c38164db9bc5e903ec4982034\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: This member is repeatedly bring you into the debate\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227394b252fd14480785975702387da7d1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: There is a point of order. There is a point of order and it will be heard in silence. And you can sit there and point and say that he knows he should be sitting down, and so did you, but you did not and he did not, and, you know\u2014what do you think this does for the reputation of this House? For goodness\u2019 sake! Now, I have a point of order from the Government chief whip.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0296020ab604b9ba0d3ab9f322ced23\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: This member is repeatedly bringing you into this debate in manners that are completely inappropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dc149f3f74b4755bc1b10eaeb35f835\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5f8971e92e846418d0929bc6e4756ed\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, there is one thing that rankles more than anything else with New Zealanders, and that is when the Government dismantles the very systems of social support that are designed to guarantee that every child growing up in this country gets a decent start in life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022520ac62f3e5c41d29ba9f7def5ca5eeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022520ac62f3e5c41d29ba9f7def5ca5eeb\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We are at this stage of the debate looking at the title of this bill. We have had a number of suggestions as to how we could better title this bill. I thought that I would remind the House that it is not that long ago that I think it was the Law Commission, or it might have been the Legislation Advisory Committee, that told this House that bills must have titles that reflect the intention of that bill. It is very important that we have proper titles on bills so that when the public picks a bill up and they read it, or they see the heading, they know what that bill reflects. I have thought for a long time that that was very good advice to give to any Government when it is bringing in a piece of legislation. It must be a title that reflects the intention of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI have to say that the title of this bill does not, by any measure, reflect the intention of the bill, because it is called the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. You have got to go to the first word\u2014that is, \u201CReform\u201D. \u201CReform\u201D\u2014what does \u201CReform\u201D mean? It implies improvement\u2014it implies improvement. We are being told that these reforms are improvements, but no evidence has been given in this debate for improvement. No research, no evaluation, and no reports have been given by anybody that this is an improvement to social housing in New Zealand. I would have liked just one bit of evidence that this measure has been looked at properly, but instead we are going to push it through under urgency\u2014even though part of it has been done for 4 years\u2014and no evaluation, and no input from the public, has been held.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESo how do we know that this reform is going to be an improvement? The word \u201CReform\u201D should be removed from the title of the bill, because that is what it implies\u2014improvement. Then the next words are \u201CFlexible Purchasing\u201D. Well, everybody knows what that means, so why not just say what it is? It is the sell-off of State houses to other organisations, but not to community groups. That was the intention when the Government had its regulatory impact statement done, with a little bit of consultation with the community sector, and had it published back in March. That was the intention, but what happened in the meantime? Campbell Roberts, who I think is one of the most respected people in the Salvation Army, came out and said: \u201CNo, we can\u2019t participate in this great social housing reform involving a flexible purchasing arrangement. We can\u2019t participate because we cannot afford to buy the houses, because we would be in debt for 10 years, and we would have to change what our philosophy and our approach is in terms of the provision of services by the Salvation Army.\u201D Those services are there to help to protect and lift up the most vulnerable in our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe Salvation Army told us that if its money and its attention had to go into buying houses under this community housing project, it could not stick to its core values, philosophy, and principles in terms of providing those services. So the Salvation Army pulled out, but the problem was that you had the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister going around New Zealand telling New Zealanders: \u201CThis is a great policy because the Salvation Army will take the houses. It will be part of the flexible purchasing arrangement.\u201D That fell flat on its face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe do not now know who the flexible purchasers in the community sector are going to be, because we do not know of any, and neither does the Government. But what we do know is that there are flexible purchasers out there who are very, very interested in buying up State houses cheaply. I have to say that my colleague Phil Twyford is correct\u2014they are property developers. I understand that many National members are new constituency members, so maybe they have not had so much contact with their constituents at this stage, or maybe they do not have many State houses in their electorates, but if they go out and look, they will see that State houses are already being sold off to property developers at knock-down prices. There are plenty of examples. Go out and look. State houses sold to property developers at knock-down prices\u2014how does that improve\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022870173a5b706426bba8a707a07810f3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022870173a5b706426bba8a707a07810f3d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great opportunity in this stage of the debate to draw together the themes of what is in and what is not in this bill. We have got the date of commencement and we have got the title, which is an opportunity for us to pull these themes together. My colleague Chris Hipkins mentioned the proposal for a commencement date that postdates the next election. If the Government had a shred of honour, given that it is removing from the New Zealand people the opportunity to make submissions on this bill and have it go through a select committee and given that it is simply ramming it through under Budget urgency, and if it had the courage of its convictions, then it would commence the bill after the next election so that New Zealanders can vote on it and cast their votes on whether they think Housing New Zealand should be a provider of social housing to New Zealanders who need it or whether it should be just another commercial landlord. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that could have so many names. It is part of the panic button for this, the Government\u2019s seventh fiscal deficit Budget. So perhaps it could be the \u201CHousing (Broken Promises) Bill\u201D. Perhaps it could be the \u201CHousing (Give With One Hand and Take Away With The Other) Bill\u201D. Perhaps it could be the \u201CHousing (No Surplus Again This Year) Bill\u201D. Those themes are all common parlance, common knowledge, amongst New Zealanders who are sighing with sighs of resignation because they have given up on this Government. They have given up on the Government having a new idea or a vision or a strategy for growing jobs and growing incomes, for making life fairer or easier for those New Zealanders who just do not have enough to get by. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EMy colleagues, God bless them, do the hard work that members opposite seem to find it too hard to find time to do. My colleagues are working with families week in week out who are living in cars, who are living overcrowded with three or four families in one modest three-bedroom Housing New Zealand home, who are living in garages, and with children not able to go to school properly or being shunted from school to school. If you do not have a decent roof over your head, the cost of that is measured in broken lives and underachievement and our country being the poorer for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ESo the Government is, essentially, stealing from the future to do a cheap and nasty job of today. Sadly, this bill is part of that cheap and nasty New Zealand. It is cheapening it. It is cheapening it by taking what was part of the envy of the world, our comprehensive welfare State, and carving it up and throwing it over to private property developers. Members opposite might smirk. Who knows\u2014maybe some of them might be getting a cut or maybe the party is getting a cut from some of those wealthy, wealthy property interests that lobby the Government up-hill and down-dale. Maybe that is the source of the smirking that is going on by members opposite. But I tell you what: there is no smirking going on in west Auckland, where people are crowded into unacceptable, damp, overcrowded houses and the waiting list is getting longer and longer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhat New Zealanders are saying to us now is that it is just too hard. The only people getting a Housing New Zealand home are people who are mental health consumers, long-term invalids, or some very few who have been in extreme poverty for years and years and years. You know, how often is it now that you are in a major city and you walk down the street, and there is someone sleeping rough on the sidewalk? I remember that when I came into this House around 20 years ago you would not see that. You would not see much of it under a Labour-led Government either. We used to look at places like America where people sleep rough often, and we used to look down our noses and say that it would never happen in New Zealand. Well, it is happening now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EGutting Housing New Zealand from being a social housing provider to becoming a commercial landlord\u2014members opposite can smirk all they like, but the New Zealand public will have their say at the next election because they damn well know what it means. It means more for the people who have already got a lot and more hardship for the people who are already doing it tough. And they have had a gutsful of it\u2014a bloody gutsful. So members opposite can smirk all they like. Carve up Housing New Zealand, throw away the welfare State, give up on the ideal that Jack is as good as his master, and the New Zealand public\u2014[Interruption] Yes, I know, and throw John Campbell off prime time while you are at it. Make sure that every major news outlet is staffed by Government-friendly journalists. All that will prolong your miserable life in Government by not much, because New Zealanders do not like to be told what to do. They will have their revenge at the ballot box.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1be420d6223406b995c8779d165dd74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1be420d6223406b995c8779d165dd74\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E This bill cannot possibly go through under the title that is set out in clause 1 of the bill. The title that it is given is the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. We have all gone to school. We know what the word \u201Creform\u201D means. It means to make better, to improve, to make more effective, to make more capable of delivering the results that ordinary working families need. There is not a member in this Committee, not even a member on that side of the Chamber, who believes for a moment that this bill carries out that purpose. It is a total misrepresentation. God knows that this House does need a social housing reform bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI just want to take 1 minute of your time to read out this commentary, which I picked from one of my local papers. It is actually from the electorate of the member for Hunua. This commentator talks about \u201Cdesperate families, two sometimes three families sharing a small house, usually in South Auckland, with the kids suffering from inadequate food, poor clothing, and often-poor health, a direct result of over-crowding and rents consuming half of an average wage.\u201D Do you know who that commentator was? Do you know who it was? It was Don Brash. That is what Don Brash, the one-time leader of the National Party and the one-time leader of the ACT Party, is saying in a publication in Andrew Bayly\u2019s electorate. That is from just 2 weeks ago. I happen to agree with Don Brash in his description of the housing crisis that faces New Zealanders at the moment\u2014a housing crisis that for the first time does not affect just the people at the bottom of the heap. This is a housing crisis that affects a lot of ordinary working New Zealanders, who desperately hoped in this Budget and in legislation under this sort of title that they might have been given a break to get a decent roof over their heads and to bring their kids up with a chance in life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWhat we have seen is rents going up six times the rate of inflation in the last year in the city of Auckland\u2014six times the rate of inflation. Rents have gone up on average by $1,300 a year in Auckland in the last year\u2014by $25 a week. It would take up the whole of the extra benefit given to vulnerable families who are on a benefit, and it is affecting other New Zealanders as well. The price of a house in Auckland went up by $103,000 last year\u2014in 1 year, by $103,000. That is a 15 percent rise and that is putting pressure on those who are renting. People cannot afford to buy their own home and those who would normally have been able to afford to buy their own home are now competing with the most vulnerable for the rental housing that is available. A social housing reform bill would have addressed the problems of a housing shortage and housing affordability in Auckland, which is now reaching crisis proportions. The National Party may have its head down, but even its former leader Don Brash spoke the truth about the nature of that crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ESo what have we got from this bill that will help? Is this bill, and this title, about the Government stepping up to meet its responsibility? No, it is about the Government opting out of its responsibility by facilitating the selling off of social housing to the private sector. It has cut social housing\u20141,600 fewer State houses in its last term in Government\u2014and now it is selling off a couple of thousand not to the Salvation Army, which Bill English used to talk about, the lovely Salvation Army that would look after people, but to private developers and to private landlords. That does not solve the housing crisis. This is not a social housing reform bill; it is a bill to privatise social housing, to gut Housing New Zealand and its ability to do the job that our forebears 80 years ago this year in this House set up, which was to provide State housing so that every child in New Zealand had the chance for a decent life because they had a stable, secure, affordable home\u2014warm and healthy\u2014to enable them to have good health, good education, and a better life. That is what reform is about. This bill does the opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u002279cd39a27ef045289648796927330a38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279cd39a27ef045289648796927330a38\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022a26dba1b945548d3b017f23b93d2a757\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a26dba1b945548d3b017f23b93d2a757\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: No. The time has come to suspend the Committee for the lunch break. The Committee will resume at 2 p.m. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022aeb610c526de4f6bb569183ab97c5916\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aeb610c526de4f6bb569183ab97c5916\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to speak to the title of this bill, which is named the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. Before I come to why I think it is misnamed, I want to just recap the main features of the existing housing crisis in New Zealand. First of all, we have got the lowest rate of homeownership in the private ownership market in over 50 years. Secondly, we have got the highest prices for houses ever in New Zealand. Thirdly, those prices are amongst the highest in relation to income as they are in any part of the world. Fourthly, the Government has already sold off thousands of rental houses. Fifthly, we have got poor-quality rental stock around the country\u2014in Auckland, but also in the provinces\u2014because we have got no minimum standard of housing, and yet this bill does away with the advice function of the ministry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI want to address where this leads. In particular, in one little subsection of housing, when you have such high housing need and no place for people to stay, you not only get an increase in homeless people, you get people staying in substandard accommodation. We are now actually seeing middle-class people\u2014who used to be insulated from this sort of thing; I know of people in this situation now, and I did not of know people in this situation a few years ago\u2014who, if they suffer a family breakup, for example, have to move with their child into another house and share a bedroom. These are middle-class people. These are not the lowest-income people. The person I am referring to, whom I will not name, is in full-time work, but he is in that situation with one of his children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EEven further down the tree, the people who are less well-off get forced into even less desirable situations\u2014namely, caravan parks. I want to just reflect on where this is heading in New Zealand because we now have more people than ever living in caravans and caravan parks. I came across this article in respect of where it has got to in the United States, because this is the path that we are on currently, with all of those factors I have talked about. It is in the Guardian Weekly of 15 May\u2014just this month. It says that \u201CAmerica\u2019s poverty trap is offering up sharp profit margins for private landlords,\u201D. I hope people in here are shocked by this. This article refers to the number of people who are living in caravan parks in the United States\u2014and its problems have been growing for longer than ours in this regard. How many people do you think are living in caravan parks in America? Have a guess. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281c5035f76d84f60a743dc32f787d8fa\u0022\u003EDr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: A million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f274bf4eb2f45168d65a1b4f1c2e929\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: A million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223517c06af9d4407487982e2c4b173389\u0022\u003EDr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: A million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239987fecbf0c487caba6536b82a9d1be\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: A million is an enormous number of people. You would think that is right, would you not? Did you know that the answer is 20 million people\u20146 percent of the American population now live in caravan parks. And it has become a big industry for the big end of town because they do not even own their caravan in their caravan park\u20146 percent of all Americans now live in caravan parks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI would hope that the housing officials who are sitting there looking at this would be ashamed of their bosses, who are forcing through the House legislation to say that the officials cannot give advice about that being where this trend ends in New Zealand. That is why this bill should be named something different from it being about remedying social housing problems. It actually makes them worse, and it should be about the trend towards caravans, because that is what is happening in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett, who should hang her head in shame in this Chamber, refers people to the local caravan park in west Auckland. In west Auckland and South Auckland, the camping grounds are bulging at the seams because New Zealanders\u2014some of them in work\u2014have to live in camping grounds. Under this Government we are going down the same path that America has, where it has now got 20 million people living in caravan parks, in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. We are one of the wealthiest countries in the world too, and we have got increasing numbers of people living in cars, sharing houses, living in camping grounds, or being completely homeless. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill will make it worse because it allows the Government to abrogate its responsibility\u2014to escape income-based tenancies and State houses because it can sell them all off and move them to some other function that is not properly funded. And who will make more money? Again, it is the big end of town. Who makes money out of all these trailer parks and the misery in America? The owners of the trailer parks. How many people are affected in America? Six percent of its population. This legislation should be called the \u201CHousing (Promotion of Caravan Parks as a Band-aid) Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00228144261478fb4d28a942612f62aa7982\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228144261478fb4d28a942612f62aa7982\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This bill needs a very serious title, I think, because it is a pretty serious issue that it covers. I think we should take it seriously, and I believe that the title needs to be actually a lot longer, even though it is quite a long title already. In particular, it must be descriptive of the content of what is in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ESo I would like to propose a more accurate title. It will be a bit longer, but I think it will be worth the extra words. It would be the \u201CMeasures to Make the National-led Government\u2019s Appalling Record on Housing Reform Since 2008 Even Worse Bill\u201D, because I think that is actually, fundamentally, what this bill does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe title could be longer, of course, because there are other things in it that show how bad this legislation is. For example, it could refer to measures to reduce housing stock in New Zealand, because that is one of the most obvious effects of this particular piece of legislation and the principal Act that it amends. Secondly, it could refer to encouraging higher rents and house prices, because that is also what it does, and that is, of course, for the benefit of selected private housing providers and nobody else in the community. Rentals are far, far too high already, and the rate of increase is far too great. Thirdly, it could refer to a failure by this Government to improve rental house quality over the 7 years it has so far been in power. The quality of rental homes has not improved. Little or nothing is being done about that, and this bill fails to address it. So the title could also be, as another alternative, for example, the \u201CMeasures to Reduce Rental Housing Stock, Increase Rents, and Ensure No Improvement in Private Rental Home Quality Bill\u201D, because that would also be a very descriptive title for this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EAnother alternative might be the \u201CHousing (Weasel Words) Bill\u201D, because I do not think I have ever heard so many weasel words in a piece of legislation itself and in the descriptions around it. I want to refer to just three of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EFirst of all is the term \u201Chousing independence\u201D. What does that really mean? \u201CHousing independence\u201D really means being abandoned to the rigours of a dysfunctional rental market. That is actually what we are talking about when the Government refers to housing independence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EAnother word that is often used in relation to this bill is \u201Cflexibility\u201D. I think that really means that Ministers, through the excessive powers given to them in this bill to give directions, will be empowered to do dodgy deals behind closed doors with a variety of housing providers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc0cb5fa62d2420c8871489711257b11\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am sorry\u2014[Interruption] It is my responsibility to look at the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a96977bc92448be9cdcdec8d5241dca\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: I was blocking the view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2d9f7b78dd1474680e9277a9ac1cec5\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE\u003C/span\u003E: OK. The third term is \u201Ctailored contract\u201D. I think that what that means is that some will get privileges and provisions that others will not get. There will be no transparency and there will not be a level playing field, so I do not think that is a particularly good term to use either, and yet it is one that is bandied about the Chamber without any real attempt to define what it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EFinally, another possible title for this bill could be the \u201CSuppression of Housing Demand Bill\u201D, because that is the whole thrust of both the principal Act and this amendment to it. The suppression of housing demand really means pushing people out of State houses who should not be pushed or bullied out of State housing. In fact, many such people should actually be encouraged into State housing as a good, secure housing solution for them. It will make it too hard in the future for people to get a State house. That has been a problem for a long time. This legislation will make it worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI have suggested at least three ways in which the title to this bill could be improved, and I would be happy to support a change to any one of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b650568d91a24c26acaab4196ab463c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b650568d91a24c26acaab4196ab463c3\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E Can I first of all commend you, Mr Chairman, for your choice of giving the call to me against my colleague, who has been competing for it longer than I have, actually, and may not be too popular with you later on. It is good to be able to have an opportunity to speak to the title and commencement of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI listened with interest to Denis O\u2019Rourke from New Zealand First, who just made a very substantive contribution. It is in keeping with the style of the debate on the title and the commencement of bills that we talk about alternative names that they could be called. He quite correctly pointed out that the purpose of this legislation is to continue what the National Government has been doing by stealth, which is the selling-off\u2014hocking-off\u2014of State houses to the private sector. It is not so that we can have better provision of affordable houses, not so that we can have more affordable houses, but just solely so that the Government can get out of that provision of social housing and, you know, presumably spend less on supporting vulnerable families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI commend Denis O\u2019Rourke\u2019s recommendations in terms of the way that the name of this bill could be changed. But actually, if you look at the name of the bill, Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill\u2014who on earth would know what that means, anyway? Flexible purchasing, to the National backbenchers, who are going to put their names on the public record alongside this bill selling off State housing\u2014I am sure they have not read it. It is quite obvious that the National Government got to its caucus before the Budget, and they were briefed and were told that this was all about flexible purchasing and remedial matters. They would not have asked. None of them would have had the courage to ask the Minister what it actually meant and what they were going to be voting on and putting their names beside. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESo even though I agree with Mr O\u2019Rourke and other colleagues who have spoken about changing the name, the title is actually so meaningless that I do not know whether it would even matter. But if we want to say what this bill actually does, then we should be much more honest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe spin around the media that has been associated with this legislation is quite extraordinary. The term \u201Cmoving to housing independence\u201D, which, presumably, in this conservative model that John Key is now promoting\u2014this conservative-compassionate model that he is now promoting\u2014presumably that means something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022889a359d99c24cceae3422ca5b0ba235\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Being thrown out on the street is what it means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b2e5d1c374943548dc42acd849582ae\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, Mr Twyford is right. What it does mean for many people in State houses is, quite literally, that they lose their home. It is not just a house that they happen to go to after work, after school, every day. It is their home. It might not be as flash as the Parnell mansion, but, actually, people have a very strong attachment to their home, and people in State houses have every right to maintain that attachment, unless we are offering them a better opportunity. Moving to housing independence by telling people that they no longer have the tenancy rights of a State house and they have to go into the private market is not offering them a better choice, but that is all that Paula Bennett and Bill English are offering them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EPrior to the lunch adjournment I listened to some of my colleagues speaking, and I was actually pretty dismayed at the sniggers and sneers that came from members of the National Party backbench. When David Clark was talking about a friend of his who was no longer able to afford to have her hair cut on a regular basis, and her children were paying for that\u2014the rent had gone up to such a point that she did not have any spare money at all\u2014they were sniggering about that. David Clark also said: \u201CThat is not the New Zealand that I signed up to\u201D, and I want to totally endorse those comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWhen we are talking about what values we have as a society, what is important to us, what makes us proud to be New Zealanders, then it has always been, for me, that we do have an egalitarian society. We do have people who are respected regardless of their level of wealth or income, people who are considered as part of the community, and people who have a stable home to call their own\u2014whether they rent it or own it. They are still contributing members of our community. This bill is another step away from that vision, away from that respect of individuals, away from the ability of New Zealanders to be able to afford to live in a home, because the Government thinks that subsidising their rent is a priority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u00222981d89155ca4ba78c79c3dd9ddd1719\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222981d89155ca4ba78c79c3dd9ddd1719\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00220ab7fcb8ad9b4f1bad94cfb1ec147c83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ab7fcb8ad9b4f1bad94cfb1ec147c83\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: No, this bill has not been to a select committee, and it is a very serious bill. Therefore I think all latitude will be taken at this stage of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022199964592c2a478ebae30920d2980230\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022199964592c2a478ebae30920d2980230\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the title of this bill\u2014in the title of the bill it has the words \u201Cflexible purchasing\u201D. I just want to say that when you have a purchaser, you also have a seller, and the seller, in this instance, is the Government\u2014the State. So I think that instead of having the word \u201Cpurchasing\u201D in it, the name of this bill ought to be \u201CSocial Housing Reform (Transfer of State Assets) Bill\u201D, or the \u201CSale of State Assets Bill\u201D. By the Government not using the word \u201Csale\u201D and using the word \u201Cpurchasing\u201D instead, it gives a different slant to that of the public\u2019s perception, I believe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EOver the last few years we have had a number of debates about the sale of State assets. Changing the terminology now, in this instance, to have a bill that talks about flexible purchasing does not address the issue that this is a mechanism, a provision, for the Government to be able to sell State assets. The general public ought to have the opportunity to have their input, and they have not had the input in this instance. So I stand here to suggest that the name of this bill should be changed, and that the Act of Parliament, if this bill is passed, should actually be the \u201CSocial Housing Reform (The Transfer of State Assets) Act\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI could equally say that it is the transfer of social housing responsibility as well, because the transfer of these houses to non-Government organisations, to property developers, also hands over the responsibility of social housing to those agencies. That is not right. It is not right, because the intent of what social housing is meant to be all about is helping those families who are most in need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I am really concerned about is the length of time. Once these transactions are made, how long does the responsibility of social housing afforded to the non-Government organisations last for? Is it 1 year, 2 years? After 2 years can they stop their responsibility of providing those houses as social housing, and then sell them on the open market at prices that, no doubt, those people who occupy those homes will not be able to afford? That is a big concern for me, because then, at that point, those houses stop being social housing. In this bill we do not know when that will be, because it is entirely at the Minister\u2019s discretion as to how and when that would happen, if at all. We just do not know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThese are the kinds of things that could be fleshed out in an open process like the select committee process, where people have the opportunity to come and have their say on this particular issue. The title bears little resemblance, in my opinion, to what the final outcome and effect of this bill would be on social housing. So my suggestion is that the Minister should reassess this particular issue, and I agree with the sentiments of other contributors to the Committee on this particular matter that the title of the bill does not give a fair reflection of the content of the bill itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThere is one other issue, and it is around M\u0101ori housing. I have read this bill very carefully and there is nothing in here that suggests to me that there is any way that the Government is upholding its Treaty obligations in providing and addressing the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002222a5e1f81d2e4b34bc298b88255c9366\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222a5e1f81d2e4b34bc298b88255c9366\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022991d9bb127bb4470bbce85c233709da6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022991d9bb127bb4470bbce85c233709da6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I made it clear last time. I am not ready yet to accept the closure motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b611f9cb07e742819b07b076f4eed120\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b611f9cb07e742819b07b076f4eed120\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E It is good to be able to take a final Committee stage call, one of many on this bit on the title and commencement clauses. As you yourself alluded to, Mr Chairman, this is a piece of legislation that is going through under urgency. It is the job of this Committee to ask questions and it is the job of the Government and the Minister in the chair to answer those questions when those questions are put in this Chamber. That is what we are elected to do and it is what we are paid to do. I would actually like to hear from some Government members, and have them get on their legs and actually examine the legislation that is under question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn regard to the title clause of this piece of legislation, I have some questions for the Minister in the chair, the Hon Jo Goodhew. The legislation is entitled the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. Well, I would like the Minister to direct me to the parts of this legislation that are going to act in a remedial way for the current housing situation that we face. I have read this legislation. My colleague the Hon Ruth Dyson suggested some reading for members opposite. She suggested they start with the bill, because it clearly was not on their reading list of things that they had examined before they came to the Committee for this debate. But I have read this legislation, and I cannot see anything that is going to be remediated in terms of the housing situation. My other colleague the Hon Annette King, in her earlier contribution on the title clause, drew the Committee\u2019s attention to the advice of the Law Commission and that we actually should title bills in plain English ways in that the titles reflect what it is that a bill is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI cannot find anything in here that is going to address the very real concern that the Hon David Parker talked about in terms of the trend we are seeing towards camping grounds in New Zealand, with the ultimate outcome being like the United States where 6 percent of people are living in camping grounds. In terms of this, I would like to know what is in here for Christchurch, a city that is facing a very particular set of housing circumstances. What are the remedial measures in this piece of legislation? We actually have a situation in Christchurch where some of the homelessness is caused by the fact that a number of our camping grounds where people were previously being directed have now been converted to workers\u2019 accommodation. Rather than being places where people who are under housing pressures can go, they are where our housing rebuild workers are going, and that is putting further pressure on housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI would like to know what clauses in this bill are going to be remedial for the constituents whom I am seeing in my office. I want to know what clauses in this bill are going to be remedial matters, in terms of social housing, for my constituent who was threatened with eviction from her Housing New Zealand house in Hoon Hay, because in the 2 years following the February 2011 earthquakes she had her daughter and her 3-month-old granddaughter living in a caravan on the property of her Housing New Zealand house. Housing New Zealand tried to evict her because it said it was not right for her to have a caravan on that property. It was prepared to see this whole extended family, who were under extreme housing pressure, be in a situation where housing was something that was simply beyond their reach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI want to know what clauses in this bill, the title of which purports to propose remedial matters, are going to do for that family. I want to know what remedial matters are in this piece of legislation for a constituent of mine who is currently in emergency temporary accommodation. Because she is classed as being in emergency temporary accommodation, the district health board will not proceed with her hip replacement surgery, because it does not consider that she has a safe place to go back to once that surgery is completed. I have not seen anything in this legislation that will do anything to remediate those situations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe have had other Ministers who have sat in that chair through earlier stages of this bill who have waxed lyrical about how this is going to be the panacea for housing. But we are still struggling. I would like the Minister to get up on her legs to address these questions and tell the Committee. This is the Committee stage of this bill, where it is the job of Parliament to ask questions of the legislation. We would like some answers to those questions. How is it that this Government thinks it can bring a piece of legislation called the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill to the House when there are no remedial matters in the bill? Many of my colleagues have suggested alternative titles for the legislation. Another one of my colleagues the Hon Ruth Dyson has herself also drawn the attention\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa6aab1c78e449c29032b8de0d301d54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa6aab1c78e449c29032b8de0d301d54\u0022\u003ESARAH DOWIE (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca4fa56744924377af6a95680d479137\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca4fa56744924377af6a95680d479137\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to speak directly to the title of the bill rather than the commencement clause. For those who are listening in the gallery, when we come to this stage of a debate, it is always the point at which we have the ability to rename the bill if we feel that its title is not befitting of its content or of what it intends, ultimately, to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAn area that I think probably warrants a bit more discussion\u2014and the title that I think is more appropriate for this bill is because of this\u2014is that of Housing New Zealand being gutted further, which is a consequence of this bill. So I would propose that the bill be retitled \u201CThe Death Nail to Housing New Zealand\u201D, because, as Phil Twyford has pointed out, although Housing New Zealand lost the substantive parts of its role some time ago, this bill actually removes any role that involves Housing New Zealand giving policy advice, direction, research, or information to the Minister. In fact, in Subpart 2, clause 20, it repeals section 3B(b). The effect of the repeal is that Housing New Zealand no longer has an objective of providing to the Minister of Social Housing advice and information on housing. Housing New Zealand no longer has any role in saying to the Government that we have a housing shortfall\u2014a social housing shortfall, a homelessness issue, a gap in the market. That is no longer its job. I would have to say that any officials within Housing New Zealand who are worth their salt would probably not want to claim that they have got that job right now, given the response from the Government\u2014because it has been particularly inadequate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIn areas like Auckland, we have seen house prices go up by $100,000 in the past year. There have been 40,000 people who have moved into Auckland in the past year alone. We are simply not keeping up with demand, and that is having a flow-down effect on our social housing market. People are unable to access homes. When you have groups like the Salvation Army coming to tell you that they have had new mothers leave hospital with a newborn child and sleep in the car because they cannot access housing, you know that you have an absolutely critical situation. We have a Government department that no longer has the job of telling the Government that there is a problem or that there are solutions to fix it. This bill is not just about the sell-down of Housing New Zealand; it is also about the fact that Housing New Zealand itself has been gutted. It is, essentially, the Government version of Quinovic. That is what Housing New Zealand is. It is now simply a property manager, and we on this side of the Committee feel extreme frustration about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAs I have also said, I do see this as a bill that will exacerbate the problem in the social housing area. In my mind, I think that to capture this, it would probably be more appropriate to call it something like the \u201CContinuation of Homelessness Bill\u201D. Any bill about social housing should include some kind of provision to grow social housing stock. Labour has always said that it has no problem with the NGO sector being involved in social housing, but it is incumbent on the State that it does not abdicate its responsibility for the provision of housing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb2f57865e5d47a7b8c967a55b479599\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: We are growing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4727b8f50884cf492ee13e66a792fe1\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and that is what this Government has done. The member on that side of the Chamber is trying to claim that they are growing State housing. Let me just tell you, in the 1990s National sold 13,000 State houses, so it had quite a bit of ground to make up there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut, equally, Mr Bishop, in my area of central Auckland, with regard to the Auckland Unitary Plan, in the submission from Housing New Zealand, it engaged Beca Group to do an enormous amount of work, where it was submitted to the council that every single Housing New Zealand house in the Auckland area should have any covenants that lay on them removed. Where the house was a historic home, it asked for it to be removed as a character home. Where there were any blocks on whether or not it could build upwards, Beca Group asked for those to be removed. Why? Why would it have done that? Because it makes it much more profitable to sell the blocks to a housing developer when there are no restriction on the way it is able to develop the land. The intent is to sell\u2014absolutely\u2014and that is not just my speculating, Mr Bishop; that is what is happening. In that area, Housing New Zealand is selling stock as fast as it can. The one that we have at least been able to stop is Spring Street. To prove the lunacy of what is going on in the social housing area: Spring Street is one of the few areas where we still have pensioner housing. Housing New Zealand proposed selling the housing to a private developer so that it could lease back the units. That is absolutely farcical, and yet that is what this bill is going to deliver us\u2014more sales to private developers for no gain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e889ea38d5dc4d3ead893dcaf9a25503\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e889ea38d5dc4d3ead893dcaf9a25503\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5e164cb56d8460790357703b303977a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5e164cb56d8460790357703b303977a\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E I too am concerned that the bill here, the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill, is inappropriately named. It really should be called the \u201CSocial Housing Rip-off Bill\u201D, because that is effectively what it is. It does not in any way reflect what this Government intends to do with the social housing sector, which is to gut it. This has been on the agenda of National Governments for generations, and it does not stop here. We know what is going to happen. We saw what happened when the Salvation Army just the other day pulled out of the Government\u2019s plan to push social housing towards it. The Salvation Army did the sums and it recognised that it was unable to run a social housing sector. This Government wants to push it on the Salvation Army in the way it has been done in Australia, except that what the Government has not calculated is that the Australian model, in comparison, is much, much bigger. The social housing providers in Australia are looking after tens or even hundreds of thousands of people, whereas here it is much more embryonic. It cannot scale up to that sort of impact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWe are sitting here under urgency, pushing through a bill on social housing that will radically reform and change social housing in New Zealand. We are doing it under urgency because the Government does not want those social agencies to come before a select committee and actually talk about what the real issues are and what is actually going to happen should this bill go through. So this is the best way of making sure that the public are kept in the dark and that everybody else out there is kept in the dark about what the Government\u2019s real agenda is, which is to make sure that social housing is radically transformed from what we see today. What we are going to be seeing instead is that those social providers will not be able to cope with what the Government is wanting them to do. We will see a siloing effect within those community providers as well, where we will not have the overview that we have today. But, more important, we will see many of these houses begin to drift into the private sector to benefit private landlords. If there is one amazing trend of the last few years under this Government, both with the housing crisis in Auckland and what is going to happen here, it is the enrichment of private landlords. The few landlords are getting richer and the rest cannot afford to get into a house. That is what is happening, and will happen, with this process here in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThis bill is wrongly named. It cannot be called the \u201CRemedial Housing\u201D\u2014or whatever the hell it is supposed to be. It is the \u201CSocial Housing Rip-off Bill\u201D because that is, effectively, what it is. It is putting private landlords and private homeowners before the rest of New Zealand. We have seen that all around. I have certainly seen it in my electorate. I have seen it all around the electorates where there are high proportions of social housing. We are seeing families and communities being disrupted because people are moving around after being turfed out of their house. Kids going to school are changing schools over and over. Many, many schools have 25 percent or 30 percent churn. Kids cannot learn. It is disrupting communities. It is hindering kids and their education, and, most important, it is ripping New Zealanders off. It is making sure that, instead of helping New Zealanders who need it, it is actually private landlords, who are going to be enriched. Certainly, the latest round of changes that have occurred to try to curb the housing crisis in Auckland are benefiting the private landlords. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EFirst home owners are not getting a look in. People who need social housing are not getting a look in. This bill is dismembering the social housing sector and ensuring that those people who really need help are pushed to one side and the few, the rich few, who put the money into the coffers of that party over there, are the people who are being enriched and being favoured above the others. That is totally unfair, and that is why the Labour Party is absolutely in opposition to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022a64422bbc6e94a6c96d42e4ebf860944\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a64422bbc6e94a6c96d42e4ebf860944\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The reason why I want to take a call in this debate\u2014and we are on the title\u2014is that this is the only chance this House has to examine this bill, to scrutinise this bill. It is the only chance New Zealand has to have this bill scrutinised by eyes other than the Government\u2019s, which is why we are taking this debate so seriously. We are looking at each part of the bill and doing our job on behalf of the taxpayers of New Zealand because this Government would not let this bill, which has nothing urgent in it at all, go to a select committee. So I think we need to go step by step, taking whatever time it takes, to make sure that at the end of this process the people of New Zealand know that we did a good day\u2019s work\u2014maybe 2 days\u2019 work, or it could be 3 days\u2019 work\u2014examining this legislation because the lazy Government opposite would not send it to a select committee. The best speech those members have made all day is: \u201CI move that the question be now put.\u201D That is the speech from Government on this very important bill that we have before us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWell, I have some got information to bring to this Chamber. We are talking about social housing, which is what the title of this bill is, and it is about the flexibility that is going to come from this social housing reform. We have been told that we need this bill\u2014and the title of this bill\u2014because it is going to make changes in the way that community housing is provided. So I thought: \u201CWhat do the community housing people themselves think about this bill?\u201D. Well, they have just put out a press statement about this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243bfc2e7061245c982573d7f9d6f7f67\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022677753249ecb445e9c8b45404b5a4886\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: They have said this. The community housing organisations say: \u201Cthe government\u2019s budget initiatives on housing are too timid\u2014and won\u2019t deliver the results needed.\u201D These are the very groups that the Government\u2014it says\u2014wants to hand over community housing to. They said: \u201CWe hear loud and clear that the government intends to transfer some Housing New Zealand properties for use as ongoing social housing run by community housing providers.\u201D They then said: \u201CWhat the sector is trying to communicate equally clearly is that the better future is one where those properties can be regenerated, made fit for purpose, and deliver a whole range of better community outcomes, not just put a new landlord in place.\u201D Say yes now, Mr Bishop. They said we should \u201Cnot just put a new landlord in place\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThey asked, what about the regions? \u201CWhat are you doing for the regions?\u201D, they said. They said that there was an urgent need to look at the accommodation supplement, \u201Cwhich currently costs the Government $1.1 billion, [and] is in dire need of review and adjustment.\u201D, and they go on. So I suggest, members, that you turn on your iPads and have a look to see what the latest reports are from the very groups that are supposed to be the beneficiaries of this social housing reform. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EAs I said before, the word \u201Creform\u201D indicates that it is supposed to be something that is an improvement, but what we are hearing from the community housing sector is that it does not see it as an improvement. So this bill is not properly named, and I am sure that those who have been in this House for a while will know how important it is to correctly name a bill. We have been warned many times that we ought to name bills correctly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ELet us listen to the only submission that we have received on this bill, and that has come in right now from the umbrella group Community Housing Aotearoa. That is the only submission we have got because it was not allowed to make one, so it has put out a press statement. I have read out to the members opposite what that group thinks about this bill. Well, if that group counts for anything, the National Government would be pulling this bill and saying: \u201CLet\u2019s send it to a select committee and hear submissions from New Zealanders.\u201D\u2014maybe even a tenant or two. Heaven help us that they should be allowed a voice when it comes to community housing! You see, the Minister for Social Housing blew it yesterday when she told us what tenants are thought of and called by the National Government. Do you know what they are called? They are not called tenants or people; they are called cohorts. She said: \u201CWe are talking about cohorts.\u201D, and she was not calling them tenants or people. That really is an indication of how out of touch the Government opposite is when it comes to social housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022b55057a516d14adbbe1a42b9acb8a070\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b55057a516d14adbbe1a42b9acb8a070\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00221aab33bb76354527a0061591334aa0a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221aab33bb76354527a0061591334aa0a3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I think we are in the position now where the Committee can make a decision as to whether it wants to move to a vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002252ffaeb861b54258bc7ab500226de06c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022847f9b579abc48d5ac91bf74927cb5d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022847f9b579abc48d5ac91bf74927cb5d0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that a member was ejected from the Chamber earlier for commenting during a vote. I did not identify the member who just commented through this vote and who was not meant to be commenting, but if I had, he would have been joining the other member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bfcb9f51f9654d0ca6e5a2e78544cecc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b3b0446c18fb4fef895f691499993f30\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022283276fc9b2244e4b9996c1fc1a2a478\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022283276fc9b2244e4b9996c1fc1a2a478\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Social Housing: I move, That the Committee divide the bill into the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Social Housing Reform) Bill, the Taxation (Social Housing Reform) Bill, the Housing Corporation (Social Housing Reform) Amendment Bill, and the KiwiSaver (HomeStart) Amendment Bill, pursuant to Supplementary Order Paper 78.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002277b01cf416964dff94111d2cb8111400\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 76\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 13; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 44\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000429\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000430\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002203e4866307a84f449d28f871678ac92c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203e4866307a84f449d28f871678ac92c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224d34c0012b1b4f5f8cbde7b285445b0a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d4fb09cef4e44fb9987df679f71b710\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a825c33c161243be81efbca6879b05ec\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u002225b539ac844f43bdb6923e6f9ba72325\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225b539ac844f43bdb6923e6f9ba72325\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Social Housing: I move, That the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Social Housing Reform) Amendment Bill, the Taxation (Social Housing Reform) Bill, the Housing Corporation (Social Housing Reform) Amendment Bill, and the KiwiSaver (HomeStart) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. I want to use this opportunity to reiterate how these four bills improve the lives of vulnerable New Zealanders by providing them with social housing that meets their needs. The Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Social Housing Reform) Amendment Bill is all about increasing the supply and quality of social housing and growing the community housing sector. There are currently 30 registered community housing providers, which have 213 houses where tenants are receiving the income-related rent subsidy. They deliver niche services that meet the diverse needs of social housing tenants, and we want them to grow. This legislation will help them do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EThis bill gives the Ministry of Social Development flexibility in the way that it enters into agreements with social housing providers. It creates a ministerial direction power to allow the Minister for Social Housing, in consultation with other housing Ministers, to authorise the Ministry of Social Development to enter into tailored agreements to purchase social housing. These new tailored agreements will enable the Ministry of Social Development to look at contracts with tenants in mind, and to look for ways to get better housing services and better provision of social housing. The current income-related rent subsidy will remain, but the new tailored agreements will now provide greater flexibility. We have been talking to the community housing sector and it has told us loud and clear that the income-related rent subsidy alone is not sufficient to encourage community housing providers to supply properties in all circumstances. Community housing providers want to be able to enter into different types of agreements, including into long-term fixed-price contracts, with the Government. Long-term contracts will give them a guaranteed income they can use to borrow against to build or buy houses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EThe practice for far too many decades was that a tenant would be put in a State house, left there, and forgotten. We recognise that some social housing tenants need extra help. We want to make sure that tenants\u2019 needs are met and, as they change over time, we want to provide the right housing and the right services to respond to those needs. I firmly believe that local providers understand their people\u2019s needs best, and I think that these tailored agreements will give them a greater role in determining what is best for tenants. To be clear, nothing in this bill will change tenants\u2019 eligibility for the income-related rent subsidy or how much they will have to pay in rent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EIt is crucial that we pass this legislation today so that we can work more effectively with the sector towards an additional 3,000 places in the next 3 years and support an Auckland initiative that will see another 300 social housing places delivered by community housing providers. This will help vulnerable New Zealanders into quality accommodation. In the future, as we work with the sector, we will establish different types of agreements worth exploring, which will be beneficial to both tenants and providers. These changes are going to make the Ministry of Social Development a smarter and more sophisticated purchaser of social housing. It will also enable the ministry to more effectively manage the social housing spend and purchase quality social housing for vulnerable people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EThe three other bills\u2014the Housing Corporation (Social Housing Reform) Amendment Bill, the KiwiSaver (HomeStart) Amendment Bill, and the Taxation (Social Housing Reform) Bill\u2014all make minor but important changes. The first ensures that payments for residential social housing provision under these agreements are GST-exempt, consistent with the current treatment for residential rental payments. The second clarifies that Housing New Zealand is no longer required to provide policy advice to Ministers. That has been the role of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment for some time. The final one ensures that any prior period of membership in a complying superannuation fund should count towards the 3-year eligibility period when the member transfers to KiwiSaver. This means that more KiwiSaver members have access to their savings to assist with the purchase of a first home. I commend these bills to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022023ea33511db405e8984717fcbc023c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022023ea33511db405e8984717fcbc023c5\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E I will give this to the Government: this Budget is an example of clever politics. There has been a lot of giving with one hand and taking away with the other. But for all those New Zealanders who are looking for more than sleight of hand, who want a plan for New Zealand\u2014some kind of idea about how we can create a better future for our children\u2014this Budget has been a big disappointment. It has offered nothing for the regions, nothing to diversify our economy and grow our prosperity, and nothing to fix the housing crisis. It is a Budget of squandered opportunities, and that theme applies pretty much to the Government\u2019s entire housing policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ELet me say for the record that pushing through this legislation under Budget urgency is a cynical abuse of this Parliament and its processes. There is no reason that we have heard last night or today from the Ministers in the chair, from Jo Goodhew who just spoke, or any of the Government members as to why this legislation has to be rammed through the House under urgency. There is nothing in the bill or in anything that any Government members have said that explains why this legislation should be denied the proper scrutiny of a select committee process and the chance for members of the public to come along and make submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis legislation and the Government\u2019s social housing policy show how absolutely bankrupt of ideas the National Government is when it comes to fixing the housing crisis. It will not build the vast numbers of affordable houses that are desperately needed to relieve the housing shortage in Auckland. Instead, we get these silly little special housing areas, which are basically lines on a map creating little zones for fast-tracked consenting, and what have they achieved? In 1\u00BD years they have seen the building of 170 houses in Auckland when the city needs 13,000 every year just to stand still. Every day the shortage of houses in Auckland is getting bigger. It is currently 20,000 and it is getting bigger all the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe Government refuses to crack down on speculators\u2014speculators, both local and foreign, who are driving house prices higher and higher and beyond the reach of ordinary people. Instead, what do we get? We get some half-hearted, rushed, panicked measure to tighten up the taxation rules. The result of that is that Treasury\u2019s own analysis indicates that that policy will not catch more than 1,000 speculators a year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ESocial housing and the intent of this legislation should be designed to help the most vulnerable people in our society: the people who, under their own steam in the current economy, will never be able to own a home of their own. That is the point of social housing in modern New Zealand. It is there to be part of the modern safety net. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe intent of this bill is to make it easier for the Minister\u2014in fact, it gives the Minister extraordinary wide-ranging powers\u2014to do sweetheart deals with the property developers that this Government is pinning all its hopes on to buy the houses that no one else wants. The Government has tried for the last 6 months to convince New Zealand that the thousands and billions of dollars\u2019 worth of State houses it wants to sell were going to go to charities and to NGOs in the community sector. That was a front. It was a fig leaf designed to give a veneer of respectability to a policy that is deeply unpopular with New Zealanders\u2014that is, the hocking off of billions of dollars of publicly owned State houses to the National Party\u2019s property developer mates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis Government refuses to change the planning rules to allow us to build more and better houses and it has been talking about it since 2006, blaming the Resource Management Act. Bill English still gets up in this House and blames the Resource Management Act, but National has done nothing. In 7 years in Government it has not yet brought a proposal to this House to reform the Resource Management Act to make housing more affordable. It has no credibility in that area. It is not doing the very thing that is the most logical, simple, obvious thing to do in the middle of a housing crisis when there is a shortage of houses. The obvious thing to do is to build more houses\u2014to build houses for young Kiwi families, good, decent, hard-working New Zealanders who only want to own a home of their own. They need a Government that will stand up on their side and build more houses. National refuses to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe people in New Zealand who are most vulnerable, who are struggling on household incomes that barely allow them to survive, who struggle to get a decent roof over their heads, they need more and better State housing. What is this Government\u2019s answer? To sell off the houses that it already owns, as if by changing the ownership it is going to make the slightest difference to the shortage of housing. It is, as Annette King memorably described it, an ideological burp, a bit of ideological reflux from the 1990s by Bill English, who back then introduced market rents for State housing and sold off 13,000 houses that ended up in the hands of private landlords and property speculators. This is simply a continuation of that policy. The difference is that this National Government has tried to dress it up by saying the Salvation Army was going to buy the houses, in order to try to reassure New Zealanders about this deeply unpopular policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis legislation gives the Minister the flexibility and the wide-ranging powers to do sweetheart deals with property developers to get rid of the houses. Bill English, who is the architect of this policy, simply wants to get State houses off the Government books. He does not care whom they go to. He will give them away. This is a fire sale of State houses on a massive scale. Billions of dollars of public assets that were paid for by State house tenants and taxpayers over generations are being flicked off by this National Government because Bill English has an ideological agenda. He does not want the State owning these houses. He does not want the State to have an active role in the delivery of decent housing for the most vulnerable New Zealanders. He would much rather replace that system with a taxpayer subsidy that goes direct into the pockets of landlords. That is what Bill English wants to do. At least he is being candid about it. Forget the mealy-mouthed platitudes that we hear from the mouth of Paula Bennett. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ELet us look at how the Government has tried to justify this con job it calls social housing reform. The first thing it says is that one-third of the houses are in the wrong place and are the wrong size. Well, in spite of the fact that that was flatly contradicted by Housing New Zealand in its recent annual report, it begs the question of how selling the houses to someone else will magically ensure that those houses are the right size and in the right place. It is a fallacy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett repeatedly makes the claim that community organisations can do a better job than Housing New Zealand. As Phil Goff pointed out, the Government has no evidential basis for making that claim. We asked Paula Bennett under the Official Information Act to provide the evidence, to provide the data. She said that no such document exists. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges got up from the chair during the Committee stage of this debate and said: \u201CWe want to build more warm, dry homes and build lovely modern homes for people. That\u2019s why we\u2019re passing this bill.\u201D Well, to be honest, that is brainless. There is no need to sell billions of dollars of State houses to your property developer mates. Just insulate the houses. Just redevelop them. Build more houses. That is what New Zealanders want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis is an ideological agenda by the National Party. It is withdrawing the Government from the provision of decent housing for New Zealanders. It wants a market-based approach. It simply wants the houses off the Government\u2019s books, and Labour will not support that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe are not against building up a stronger community housing sector. In fact, as members will know, I have given some very good speeches in the House and elsewhere, making the case for that. But we will not stand by and allow the community housing sector and many fine organisations to have their good reputations cynically used and manipulated by this Government in order to lend a veneer of respectability to its policy. The answer to the housing crisis is simple. We have a shortage of houses; just build more houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce988cd5aa3d446696122cc774cb18c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce988cd5aa3d446696122cc774cb18c0\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I am rising to support the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill in its third reading. Can I start off by acknowledging Housing New Zealand in the Canterbury region since the devastating earthquakes. It is well on track to repairing 5,000 Housing New Zealand houses and rebuilding 700 Housing New Zealand houses. In my electorate alone, in Waimakariri, it is on track to rebuilding and repairing every house. In fact, we will end up with more Housing New Zealand houses than before the earthquakes. Can I acknowledge and congratulate the very creative community organisations in my electorate that are out buying affordable housing for their customers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ECould I say to those New Zealanders, those 3,000 extra New Zealanders who under this legislation will get housing support, that the Labour Party said no, the New Zealand First Party said no, and the Green Party said no, and tell them that this National Government said yes. And can I tell all those extra tenants who will get extra help under this legislation by wraparound services that the Labour Party said no, the New Zealand First Party said no, the Green Party said no, and this National Government said yes. We are the workers\u2019 party. We are working hard for the working people of New Zealand. I commend this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022af0029151ffc467499d2464b44c77a3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af0029151ffc467499d2464b44c77a3e\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E National members are very proud of this social housing reform legislation. We have heard this repeatedly in their 1 minute and 27 second speeches, we heard it again in the second reading in their 1 minute and 40 second speeches, we heard it again with their \u201CI move that the question be now put.\u201D speeches during the Committee stage, and now we have had another 1 minute speech in support of this legislation from the backbench of the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EUnfortunately for this House, it started off with the Minister for Social Housing, who has bailed out of the debate before it has finished. She started off this debate by saying that the Government had started a vicious programme of reforms. I said, yes, she is right on one thing; she has started a vicious programme of reforms. We now know what they are. There has been a series of major changes to housing policy under this Government. Every one of them takes State house tenants backwards. Every one of them leaves State house tenants unsure as to whether tomorrow they will still have a roof over their head. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI said at the beginning of this debate that I believe this was a series of ideological burps by this Government\u2014in other words, a lot of hot air and gas wrapped up in its biased and unbalanced philosophy that the National Party holds dear. I believe we have gone from Nick Smith, who has been a great exponent of this sort of philosophy, to Paula Bennett, and Paula Bennett in her wake has left a trail of destruction in Government departments. Go out and see what you find in the Work and Income offices around New Zealand now. See what the morale is like after 3 years of her stewardship. She has now moved on to Housing New Zealand. What we find out in this legislation, hidden in this legislation, in the remedial matters part of it, is that she is removing any advice from Housing New Zealand on policy. Did the members opposite know that? Were they aware that she was removing any advice that would come from Housing New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289eb444c85ee4664a20a0bfa14acd55d\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Since 2011, Mrs King.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9e0c5ef6dfe44349299f97ec5cb0f27\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The member at the back, the list member from the back Brett Hudson, who has not bothered to contribute to the debate except from his seat, sitting down, ought to go and have a real look at this legislation instead of being just a parrot for the notes they are given. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIn fact, we have got a whole backbench of parrots who have not taken the time to read what this legislation does. They did not take the time to ask questions of their Minister. They just said: \u201CWe are so proud, Minister, of your bill.\u201D I actually think they are not earning their salaries today, because they are not working and questioning and debating this legislation, which they ought to be doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EYou know, we, the people of New Zealand, were given a solemn promise by the Prime Minister of this country that there would be no more asset sales, and what we know from this legislation and from the other actions that this Government has taken is that the biggest asset sale you could have is taking place now. There would not be a member opposite or on this side of the House who would not think that a house is the biggest asset any of us could ever have. Our house, whether we own it or whether we rent it, and live in it and cherish it, is the best and biggest asset we have. And to say that selling off thousands of State houses is not an asset sale is to be very economical with the truth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThat is what this Government has been with this legislation. You see, it has been set up. It was set up over 3 years ago when National became the Government and the first wave of changes came to State houses. It followed a pattern, and I set that pattern out in the first reading of this legislation. I think it is worth repeating, because every constituency member on this side of the House knows the pattern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EFirst of all, the people are taken out of the State houses. Is that not what happened out in your electorate, our chief whip? Is that not what happened in other parts, whether it is in Te Atat\u016B or whether it is in Rongotai? People are removed from the houses. That is the first thing that happens. There are all sorts of reasons why they need to be removed. Secondly, the Government then says: \u201CNo one wants to live in these houses. Look, they\u2019re empty. Nobody wants these houses.\u201D And all the while the waiting list for State houses was growing and growing and growing. These houses were empty, the Government said that nobody wanted to live in them, and the waiting lists in those areas were growing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESo then the next excuse is: \u201CWell, these houses must be in the wrong place and the wrong size, so if they are in the wrong place and are the wrong size, we should sell them to the community sector. It will be able to put people in the houses that are in the wrong place and are the wrong size.\u201D You see, it is nonsensical. It does not make sense. Then the Government just flogs them off to whomever, whoever will buy them, because they are going to be used for community housing. If they cannot be used for community housing by the Government agency, why does the Government think a community organisation is going to turn them into the right house in the right place and of the right size? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EYou then get to the next part of this process. When you leave houses empty\u2014just go around and look at empty State houses\u2014what you will find is that suddenly the windows start to be broken. Then you have vandalism and graffiti written on the walls and written on the houses. You see the boards go up as Housing New Zealand tries to cover up the broken windows. Then you get the complaints about what it is doing to the neighbourhood, and questions as to why these houses are looking so unsightly in a neighbourhood. Then it gets to the final stage of all. The Government says: \u201CWell, we\u2019ve got to sell them off. We\u2019ve got to get rid of them.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThat has been the process that we have watched take place since this National Party became the Government\u2014cynical, manipulative movement in State houses to get rid of houses, whether they are all the best houses or not. We would not have objected if they were being replaced by other houses. That is not the history of the National Party. It sold off 13,000 houses when it was last in Government, and it is now on the big State house sell-off again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESo then we thought that if this party cannot look carefully at the legislation, and the backbenchers are too lazy to get out of their seats\u2014other than to make 27-second speeches\u2014that we ought to look closely at it. Many of us go straight to the regulatory impact statement. You see, it is provided for a reason. It is provided to tell us, the members of Parliament in this House, what other eyes have seen when they have looked at the legislation. It is always worthwhile, I say to new backbenchers. Go and read any regulatory impact statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe have seen some very good regulatory impact statements over the years. I can think of the one that was put out on the legislation for the care of adults who are disabled\u2014remember that one? When we got that regulatory impact statement, Tony Ryall had it all redacted. On the day we were debating the bill you could not even read what they were saying. Well, we have got a regulatory impact statement on this bill, and what we found out was there has been no review, no evaluation, and no reports on this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe first issue: what does it say? Has there been any? The big answer is one big, fat no. There have been no reviews or evaluation of this policy. The second one, which I think is important, is that Treasury did not provide any independent opinion on the quality of this legislation. Those are two fundamental things that happened. Is it evaluated? Have they got advice? Is there a report? What has Treasury said about it? On both those counts, the National Party did not get advice. It knows best! It knows exactly what people need in New Zealand; it is what the National Party wants! It is not what people necessarily want; it is what the National Party wants! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI say to the members opposite, after you have passed this bill\u2014because you have not taken the time to read these statements now and have not taken the time to question whether there is anything in these bills that ought to have closer scrutiny\u2014I suggest you come to the Table, pick up the documents, and at least learn a lesson from this bill. Learn a lesson that you do not just become the rubber stamp for your Ministers. You are not going to go far in a political career when you just become a rubber stamp for a Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EAnd I say to the C-team\u2014except Mr Bishop\u2014that you have become rubber stamps for the Minister, who has hoodwinked you into thinking that a bill that does not have to be passed with urgency, parts of which they have been undertaking for the last 4 years, you are going to need to pass and you just need to rubber-stamp it. Well, I say to the members opposite that you are not doing the job that you are elected to do if you are not scrutinising the legislation that is put before this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI say to the members opposite: shame on them. This legislation should have gone to a select committee. It should have had submissions. It should have had input from the people of New Zealand so they could have a say. State houses are their assets, not the Government\u2019s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u00220d7f83db73ff40318b0f00764edaede7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d7f83db73ff40318b0f00764edaede7\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the third reading of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. The current law assumes that all social housing tenants\u2019 needs are the same. There is no provision for a tailored response. As we have heard since this morning, there are waiting lists and there are some houses sitting there vacant. This bill is designed to fix that situation\u2014exactly to fix that situation. There is a mismatch between the needs of the families and the kinds of houses that are available. Urgency is required because there are people on waiting lists, and we do care for those people who are on waiting lists. That is why we need this urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThe aim of social housing reform is to house more families. We do care about the size of the house that we provide to these people. We do care about the location they will be put into. We cannot put a five-member family in a one-bedroom house. On the other hand, another family with just two members may not want a five-bedroom house. Location does matter because people want to be close to their family members, their relatives, or the communities they want to be in. We need to address these needs. This Government is working hard to get the best outcomes for people in social housing, and for that we need flexibility. We need this bill. I support the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00220f82e2a31b33471b8dbc689605ce2f7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f82e2a31b33471b8dbc689605ce2f7f\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on this, the third reading of the legislation arising from the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. When my colleague Kevin Hague spoke in the first reading of this bill he said this bill was an emblem of the Government\u2019s wider housing agenda and evoked the Government\u2019s own consultation process for the flag referendum distraction. Members will know that New Zealanders in that campaign are being asked \u201CWhat do you stand for?\u201D and then pose for photos holding a sign saying what they stand for. Well, with this bill one can all too easily imagine, I think, the Prime Minister holding his sign, no doubt with a relaxed smile on his face. The sign might read: \u201CI stand for abdication of Government responsibility.\u201D Or it might say: \u201CI stand for not giving a damn.\u201D Or it might say \u201CI stand for the ideology of pink and grey, of the 1980s and 1990s.\u201D, even though that failed miserably the first time around. Or it might even say: \u201CI stand for contempt for the normal democratic process that should surround a bill like this.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThere is a housing crisis in this country. People from Invercargill to Kait\u0101ia are sleeping in cars, in overcrowded housing, and on other people\u2019s couches because they cannot get into State houses and cannot afford private rentals. All but the most privileged young people are now facing a lifetime of renting and of never being able to buy their own home\u2014something that was once considered a birthright for those in this country. This represents growing intergenerational inequality and the abandoned generation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt also represents a demise of community. One of the National members said last night that this National Government represents big community. Well, I can tell that member and members on that side of the House that in my community, a low-income community, there is amazing heart and amazing kindness but it is hard for that to bed in in communities because, sadly, all too often people are having to move because they are in rental accommodation and they cannot afford the costs. So my community is constantly in flux because of the policies of this Government, which undermine our entire social fabric. This Government\u2019s approach undermines community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI was at the Child Poverty Action Group post-Budget breakfast this morning and was really moved by a presentation from a young emergency department doctor, talking about the personal shock he had experienced when seeing the emergency department in Wellington turn into what seemed like a paediatric clinic during the cold snap just last month in April. While he was studying, he had learnt in his studies about the social determinants of health. He knew that poverty and poor housing are causing illness. There are about 40,000 preventable hospital admissions a year in this country. He had learnt through his study that more than one child a week dies from poverty-related illnesses in this country, many connected to the quality and over-crowding of our housing. He knew all of this theoretically, but he told us that none of that learning prepared him for the reality of facing that onslaught of children coming in in the middle of the night in waves of sickness with bronchial diseases and even pneumonia. He said that this Budget and this legislation will do nothing to stem the flow of children into the emergency departments of this country and it will do nothing to stop the deaths. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt grieves me that when this Government had the opportunity to present us with legislation that could have turned that round, what we have instead is legislation that is making it easier for the Government to transfer State housing stock into the hands of private developers and possibly some community organisations. Last night, when Government members bothered to take their maybe maximum 2-minute calls on this bill, they mentioned a commitment to home insulation from this Government. I would like to remind this House that that was a Green Party initiative\u2014an initiative that this Government stopped before the job was done. Again, how familiar is that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250ff256b140e45f4b0e8e4ef89d87aad\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not true. That\u2019s a bit harsh. That\u2019s unfair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022596b53f53abd445dbe38a5153712963d\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: The member says that is not true. I would like to ask the member whether every house in this country is insulated. Would every house in this country pass a warrant of fitness? Are our houses still killing our children? The reality is that they are still killing our children. You have not finished the job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis legislation is passing under urgency without the possibility for the public to contribute to it, except through one media release from the community housing providers, which are telling us they believe it is timid and will not solve the problems that we are seeing in the communities. This legislation is passing without analysis from Treasury and without any substantive input and analysis of the implications, particularly the fiscal implications. It is passing without, I would say, even one coherent, substantive speech from the Government members to provide detail on this legislation so that those of us on this side of the House and the public of New Zealand can properly engage with what the Government is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that at the heart of this legislation it is helping the Government to transfer State housing stock to property developers. Although the Green Party absolutely supports the role of community housing providers, we believe it needs to be in addition to a strong State housing sector. We absolutely oppose the transferring of State housing resources\u2014our collective public resources\u2014into the hands of the private sector to make a profit off the vulnerability of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis Government is failing in housing at every turn. The public expects that New Zealanders will not be sleeping on the streets or in cars or garages, but this Government has done nothing to address homelessness or provide emergency housing. The public expects that it should be possible for someone to rent a house and feel secure, but this Government has presided over skyrocketing rents and making rental tenure less secure. Landlords seem to be in some kind of race to the bottom these days and, in fact, the worst standards have become entrenched. Right now landlords\u2014including, tragically, Housing New Zealand\u2014that lose their cases in the Tenancy Tribunal are now using 90-day notices to evict tenants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe public expects that everyone will have a home that is at least healthy, dry, and warm. Yet, despite the Green Party policy for home insulation, many New Zealanders are still living in houses that are broken, in disrepair, and are making them ill. The public expects that that traditional dream of homeownership should still be available to all, yet the Government seems relaxed about the situation in Auckland, where the median house price is now around $800,000 while the median household income for people under 35 is $50,000. Younger people in Auckland are being permanently excluded from homeownership, with devastating economic consequences for them personally and for our wider economy into the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EFinally, I do want to remind National that it was actually the first party to build State houses in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226543a32fcbae48d7a7257d2cdd840391\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b88c1942bfb4016afd1f62b0fcf6108\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. In 1905 Richard Seddon passed the Workers\u2019 Dwelling Act to build the first State houses for inner-city workers to rent. He thought New Zealanders could enjoy higher standards of living if the State took over from \u201Cgreedy city landlords\u201D. I still believe that is true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00224bb321f3161b49a8b65d8f85bfc70c3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bb321f3161b49a8b65d8f85bfc70c3c\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E There are three questions that I believe the people of New Zealand should be asking this Government about this legislation. First, how will this legislation create more homes for people? Second, how will this legislation reduce the cost of housing, stop the massive increase in rents, and stop the ludicrous rises in house prices in Auckland without causing the bubble to burst? Third, how will the privatisation of State housing improve the quality and security of housing for the most vulnerable people in our communities? I want to try to give some answers to these questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ETo the first question, about meeting the demand for rental homes, this legislation is not actually designed to increase rental housing stock. It is, in fact, designed, firstly, to minimise the role of the State by emasculating Housing New Zealand; effectively, requiring it to sell houses and to build only in some areas, in the nature of a residential property developer rather than a social housing provider. What is needed, of course, is an agency with a comprehensive role, in order to provide a housing service for the lowest-income people in the country, to insulate them from the worst effects of the worst landlords. Also, the legislation eliminates Housing New Zealand\u2019s research and advice functions to the Government, which seems very stupid to me because all of its expertise will be lost in the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe second part of the answer is that the legislation means that the Government is, actually, abdicating its responsibility for social housing by contracting that function to others\u2014to organisations that are not always capable of carrying out that function and to people without responsibility for the welfare of the tenants. The Minister said in her speech that flexibility will allow for tailored agreements, to give certainty to providers so that they are able to borrow and build more homes. But the truth is that Housing New Zealand could actually do that faster. It could build more homes, and it could build them better if it were properly resourced by the Government to do so. Why go to housing providers outside Government that do not have the capacity to do the job? It just does not make sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe third part of the answer is that the Government, by providing far too little money to Housing New Zealand for new rental housing, shows that it is not, really, interested in solving the problem at all. If that were not bad enough, the principal Act amended by this legislation means that people are being pushed out of State houses\u2014actually bullied out of them\u2014through this policy of reviewable tenancies. This is based on a bureaucratic assessment of the ability of tenants to move into private accommodation, for no apparent reason and without regard to their health or well-being, their community connections, or their need for secure accommodation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe legislation is also designed to avoid accountability. The Government wants to be able to point the finger at somebody else when it is shown that not enough rental houses are being provided. This Government\u2019s way of dealing with the social housing crisis is to transfer it to others\u2014avoiding the heat by leaving the kitchen. The answer to the first question, about increasing rental housing stock, is that the legislation will not cause one new rental home to be built, and Housing New Zealand will not be resourced to do it either. It will be another tool to speed the sell-off of rental homes, and it will be used to justify less and less investment in new State rentals. It will make the crisis worse, not better. Ultimately, that means more housing deprivation, and it will make State houses even harder to get than they are now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI want to move on to the second question, about affordability. The average rental is now $379 per week. Under National, that is an increase of $65 per week since 2008\u2014a 20.9 percent increase. That is an increase above the Consumers Price Index of 11.7 percent. What does this mean? It actually means that in the main centres, rents have become unaffordable for people, despite the rent subsidies offered by the Government. Even that is not the full story, because those figures that I gave are for all of New Zealand. The crisis is much greater in Auckland and Christchurch. In Auckland, people typically spend half or more of their income on rent, and that is unacceptable. In Christchurch, where I live, I hear stories all the time. People tell me that they are spending $1,000 a week for an ordinary three-bedroom home because they cannot find anything of reasonable quality for anything less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThose are facts. They are not just my opinions; they are what people are telling me. It is the truth, and this Government is not addressing it in those main cities. People are still forced to live in cars\u2014forced to live in cars\u2014in caravans, in tents, under bridges, and in hovels not fit for human habitation. That is the record of this Government, and it is not addressed at all by this legislation. So the answer to the question is this: this legislation is simply not capable of curbing even the rate of increase of rents, let alone reducing them at the present time. In fact, the legislation is more likely to cause increases in rents because the interest of private providers is in returns, not in the welfare of tenants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EMoving on to the third question, on rental housing quality: social housing will now be at a very great arm\u2019s length from the Government agencies that actually understand housing. Oversight will be seriously compromised as a result. More power is given to Ministers to give directions on the terms and conditions of contracts, but they are clearly going to take a very political, very dogmatic, ideology-driven approach to it. This means, under this Government, that the approach will be aimed at saving money, with much less focus on looking at the best interests of the most vulnerable people in our communities. Non-government providers will impose their own policies and practices. What that means, actually, is that there will be no satisfactory minimum housing standards for rental properties in New Zealand, and we know where that will lead. It will lead in entirely the wrong direction. It will mean poor-quality housing. Most of all, this legislation will result in a very uncertain outcome for low-income people who are dependent on the State for housing and, above all, who need security\u2014not uncertainty\u2014in their tenancies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ELastly, the whole thrust of this Government\u2019s housing programme, as expressed in this amendment legislation and in the principal Act, is that it wishes to suppress demand rather than meet demand. The results of that will be very expensive in social terms. It will result in reduced health and well-being and increases in poverty, putting more families at risk and compromising social cohesion. This legislation is a retrograde step. It emasculates Housing New Zealand. It seeks to reduce Government accountability. It does not increase housing supply. It does not control rocketing rents. It does not improve housing rental quality. It simply does not address the New Zealand housing crisis at all. What a shame. This Government should be hanging its head in shame, not telling us that it is proud of this useless legislation, because that is what it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI see somebody over there on the Government side laughing at this, but the truth is that if he was one of the people affected, the smile would be on the other side of his face. This is poor legislation. It should not be passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u00223a394eeacf864dc98756ecd4abcf2dbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a394eeacf864dc98756ecd4abcf2dbc\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it has been an interesting few hours since yesterday, hearing the members opposite just being fixated with one part of this legislation and going on and on and on. I want to draw members back to the legislation itself and to the explanatory note, which states: \u201CAmong other things, ministerial directions could allow the agency to purchase social housing places into the future \u2026 to pay more or less than the income-related rent subsidy, and generally to enable arrangements that respond effectively to social housing need.\u201D Over the last few months, I have spoken to a number of agencies and they have expressed to me a desire to get further involved in social housing. They want to play a bigger part in social housing because the clients that they are working with are interfacing with Housing New Zealand and other social agencies as well, but the current legislation that we have is not flexible enough for them to play the kind of role that they would like to play. So I am really looking forward in a little while\u2019s time, when we vote on this bill, to be able to go back to them and say: \u201CBoy, have I got a deal for you. Boy, we are going to move forward. You are now going to be able to do what you want to do.\u201D I am going to say to them that they will be able to engage with Housing New Zealand, and they are going to be able to engage with the Government, to be able to provide an even better service for their clients. That is why I will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00225753407ecc6348df9d49da00faf617e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225753407ecc6348df9d49da00faf617e5\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call\u2014Jenny Salesa, 5 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00229590d34fe27241efbfd7eeb92f76b96a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229590d34fe27241efbfd7eeb92f76b96a\u0022\u003EJENNY SALESA (Labour\u2014Manukau East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for this opportunity to speak on the social housing reform legislation. Today is a sad day to be debating this legislation in this House. Michael Joseph Savage, a former Labour Prime Minister, in the 1930s, left the legacy of building State houses to house vulnerable families. He stated that the Government has a collective responsibility to care for each other\u2014all of us here in the House of Representatives have a collective responsibility to care for each other and for our constituents\u2014although the social housing reform legislation is the total opposite of a caring piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI have heard a few members, particularly from the other side of the House, stating that this legislation is about serving families\u2014that it is about serving families better. How in the world is it possible that we would serve families better by selling the houses that they live in from under them and by evicting them from the houses that they live in right now? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWe have a housing crisis in Auckland already. Almost every day I see this with my own eyes. Families who come into my office are families who come in minivans, and that is the home that they live in. There are families who live in garages. There are two and sometimes three families sharing a house because that is the only way that they can make ends meet. There are families who cannot afford to put a roof over their own heads by themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI would like to state that, unfortunately, there is not much in Budget 2015, including this social housing reform legislation, to relieve the 7 long\u2014very long\u2014hard, and painful years that have been suffered by the people in my electorate of Manukau East in South Auckland. These are people in \u014Ctara, \u014Ct\u0101huhu, and Papatoetoe, alongside thousands of other ordinary Kiwis across New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EHousing and decent jobs are major issues for my constituents in Manukau East. Housing and employment are the basic building blocks for a decent life. Having the ability to work, being able to afford a roof over your family\u2019s head, and being able to afford to buy food for your children and your family\u2014nothing fancy; just the basic necessities of life. These basic necessities continue to be increasingly difficult for working families to maintain. This, in spite of many years of tantalising promises that we are on the cusp of something special and that we should just wait a little while longer and there will be more jobs, there will be increased incomes, and there was also the promise of affordable housing by this Budget. Somehow, affordable housing we will hope to see in the very unknown future\u2014who knows?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThere is undeniably a major housing crisis in Aotearoa New Zealand. This Government has failed to confront the housing crisis head on. It has been content with tiptoeing around the edges. In last year\u2019s Budget National promised that housing would be made more affordable, but it is plain for all to see that housing is not more affordable today; housing is in actual fact much more expensive each and every day. Housing in Auckland\u2014$809,000 for an average house. That is most definitely not affordable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe very first piece of legislation this Government is ramming through the House is to hold a fire sale of State houses for its developer mates. This social housing reform legislation is not compassionate conservatism, as we heard yesterday; it is Cabinet club conservatism\u2014flicking off the State houses to developer mates at knock-down prices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4a91c2e3ffe499a8b072bf64787356f\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Tired old lines\u2014didn\u2019t work last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229a4ab84a77f48b78e7e70b30d5748c3\u0022\u003EJENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: It is not lies. In this Government\u2019s special housing areas in Auckland, which are touted to actually relieve the situation in Auckland, 170 houses have been built in a year and a half\u2014170 houses. Under National the shortfall has not been addressed. This Government has failed to ensure that housing is affordable, as it promised. This Government has failed to provide housing, which is a basic human right for people. I and the Labour Party strongly oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00227e4cac37782b4f3ab12912b182a3413b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e4cac37782b4f3ab12912b182a3413b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Meka Whaitiri\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u00226261eb2135ca4a428faf4d4981dd1fef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226261eb2135ca4a428faf4d4981dd1fef\u0022\u003EMEKA WHAITIRI (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. State housing has a proud history in New Zealand. It is how we make sure that every child gets at least a decent roof over their head. No matter how hard mum and dad are struggling financially, it is how we make sure every child gets a decent start in life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIt is my privilege to stand and take a call on the third reading of this important legislation. I came to this House at 9 a.m. and sat in the Committee for 4\u00BD hours to try to get a call on this particular legislation, so I am pleased to finally get 5 minutes to talk and share my experience of the impact that it is going to have on the people and constituents whom I represent in this House\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti. There have been some communities that have been identified in terms of how this legislation will not address their needs. Can I make it really clear for the House that there are real social and emergency housing needs throughout Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti. There are real housing needs. A couple of suburbs were mentioned by colleagues on this side of the House\u2014Flaxmere\u2014but one suburb that I particularly want to mention is Maraenui. Since coming into this House I have the privilege of visiting Maraenui often when I am back in the Hawke\u2019s Bay\u2014Napier. I can say without a word of a lie that 80 to 90 percent of the cases that I deal with on a daily basis when I am in the electorate are to do with housing issues. That is why I am saying that legislation like this is not going to address the real social and emergency housing needs of the constituents I represent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EOne of the issues raised in the passing of this legislation under urgency is why we are doing this urgently, because that was not answered by the Minister for Social Housing when she was in the chair. What is the urgency that is prevalent in this bill that requires us to have that time and why were the people who are going to be affected by the legislation not given the opportunity to present? They are not here. Their voices cannot be heard, but this side of the House is bringing the very real issues that we confront as electoral MPs to the House. This legislation falls short in terms of supplying, or being able to give, the number of social housing homes that are going to replace those that have been sold off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned, Maraenui is a place of many, many social and State houses that have recently been sold or are currently vacant. We have just under a hundred on the waiting list in Hawke\u2019s Bay, yet we have these homes that are either vacant or have been turned down. So much has the Government dropped the ball in Maraenui that recently I met with the Maraenui revitalisation committee, and who is heading that committee? The Napier City Council. Napier City Council along with all the Government agencies, property developers, and Te Puni K\u014Dkiri have got round the table. When my colleague Stuart Nash and I visited them 2 weeks ago, we asked the question: \u201CWhy are you doing what you\u2019re doing? There must be a Government plan to deal with housing issues in Maraenui.\u201D Do you know what they told us both? There is no plan. They\u2014the people around the table\u2014said to both of us that there was no housing plan for Maraenui. There is clearly a gap in that part of my electorate. There is no housing plan, so the people of Napier have taken the ball to address the real issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EBut for the time I have got left on my feet in bringing forward those issues of the people of Maraenui, I also want to mention what this legislation is actually doing. As a former public servant, I understand what important and really robust policy looks like, and I also know what robust and good policy does not look like. In this particular legislation it talks about removing from Housing New Zealand Corporation, the deliverer of housing in this country, the role of giving advice to the Minister. I read that and I fear for all the public servants that we are talking about here in Housing New Zealand. That means who is next on the block. Which other departments and officials that work tirelessly on behalf of our community are also going to get the chop? This is one of the failings of this legislation. It is not just about not delivering; it is also downplaying the Public Service, which has a proud record in this country, and therefore I cannot support this legislation. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022a37fdb7f46074556a9e78b0ef36a6a81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a37fdb7f46074556a9e78b0ef36a6a81\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Legislation arising from the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill is important legislation. I think the main plank of this legislation is that it moves the focus from one social housing provider in Housing New Zealand to the people who require social housing. That flexibility is essential because other providers in conjunction with Housing New Zealand will actually be able to meet people\u2019s needs in the way that they are needed\u2014in the right places, with the right houses of the right size. It is a great pleasure to be a part of a Government that actually hits to the heart of the matter rather than sticking to tired old ideology. So it is with great pleasure that I commend the legislation to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc674ae7d8d94de28a1a94e6d57c7acc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc674ae7d8d94de28a1a94e6d57c7acc\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te W\u2019are, otir\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker of the House, and indeed to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EIt gives me great pleasure\u2014in a way\u2014to have the opportunity to speak to this. I think it is really important that I again acknowledge all of those families who are sitting in their State homes today wondering about the future of their occupancy of the houses that they live in\u2014their homes. I also want to acknowledge those families who have applied for a State house and have been declined. They have been declined because the rules around who qualifies for a State house, and who does not, have changed. That has not lowered the number of people wanting social housing; it means that the Government has just written them off. So I want to acknowledge those families as well, because this legislation does nothing for them\u2014nothing at all. This legislation has got nothing to do with what the Government benches say that it has, although we have not heard a lot from them, especially today. We have heard, as my colleague said, interjections that have lasted longer than their speeches, and in a democratic society that is actually not good enough. It is not good enough for the speeches from the Government benches that we have heard today\u2014very few of them\u2014that when they are given the opportunity to actually speak to those issues, you get a 1-minute speech in response. As my colleague the Hon Annette King pointed out, the Government benches are actually not doing their job properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI go to the bills that have come out of the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. Let us talk about the flexible purchasing or, as I mentioned during the Committee stage, the flexible sales, because that is what it really is. These bills provide the mechanism for the Government to sell State assets. That is what they do. No one can deny that. In fact, if that was not right, why have we not heard from the Government benches about that particular issue? The sale of these State assets also transfers the responsibility to provide social housing. That is actually not good enough. It is an obligation on the Government to provide those houses. If it is not, then the Government should say so. The Government should tell the country\u2014come clean. Tell the community that the Government does not want to be in that business any more\u2014that it does not want to provide social housing for New Zealand. That is what this legislation is, effectively, saying. It wants to transfer the responsibility to community organisations and others: property developers\u2014we do not know, because new section 137A of the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters Act inserted by this legislation gives the power to the Minister for Social Housing to make those decisions. The Minister can make the decisions around transferring those assets to, from my reading, anyone the Minister chooses. And without any rules around that we do not know how long those houses have to stay as social housing. Is it 1 year, 2 years, 10 years? Maybe after 2 years they can be transferred or sold on the open market, no doubt for a large profit, and then no longer will those homes be affordable, no longer will those homes be social houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe big question in debating this particular legislation is whether there will be one single social house more in New Zealand when this legislation takes effect, and the answer is no\u2014not one single one; nothing. How, then, can members opposite claim that this legislation will provide more social housing? It does not. It does not. I think I am bound to say that the public should have had the opportunity to have input into this legislation. New Zealanders, ordinary Kiwis out there, have been denied the opportunity that our democratic system offers. They have not had the opportunity to give evidence. We have heard in the contribution from the Hon Annette King that one organisation was able to get out a press release in time to give its thoughts on it. Imagine what other organisations might have been able to contribute. There is nothing in this legislation, as I started to allude to in one of my earlier contributions, around the Government\u2019s Treaty of Waitangi obligations. It talks a lot about providing M\u0101ori housing, and yet in this legislation there is no mention under the enabling clause of the Minister giving any recognition whatsoever to the Government\u2019s Treaty partners\u2014none whatsoever\u2014so that may or may not happen, but there is no obligation on the Government to do that. I call on the members opposite, who have one more call. Maybe they can answer some of those concerns that more than just I have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned earlier, those families who are sitting at home, wondering about the future of the occupancy of their homes, will be very concerned that they have not had the opportunity too to make a contribution and give evidence on this legislation. Actually, we have not heard any compelling evidence or any compelling contribution from the members opposite about exactly why this legislation is so important that it has to go through under urgency. I have not seen or heard any contribution from them addressing that issue. There is no urgency in this. It is a matter of the Government deciding that it wants to get this legislation through under the urgency of the Budget so that the general public will miss the fact\u2014or may miss the fact\u2014that this is about the flexible sale of State assets. It is not flexible about the purchasing, because when you have purchasing you also have someone who is selling, and that is the Government on behalf of all New Zealanders selling its stake in social housing in New Zealand and transferring the responsibility that it has to organisations and others to carry out that function. That is just not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u0100, n\u014D reira, ka tuku atu i taku k\u014Drero ki aku iwi katoa. Kia kaha ki te \u0101ta titiro i \u0113nei pire. Kaua e p\u014Dturi ki te tuku atu i \u014D koutou k\u014Drero ki a r\u0101tau m\u0101 te K\u0101wanatanga. N\u014D reira, Mr Assistant Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Therefore, my advice to all my M\u0101ori people: be robust and scrutinise these bills very carefully. Do not be slow in submitting your findings to that lot, the Government. So thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u00221a50d93e4ac44badbe94a84ff7040e97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a50d93e4ac44badbe94a84ff7040e97\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great privilege to be able to stand here as the final speaker in support of the legislation divided from the Social Housing Reform (Flexible Purchasing and Remedial Matters) Bill. It is time for the members to park their histrionics and park their ideological dead ends and actually come across and listen to what this legislation delivers. There will still be 60,000 properties in the ownership of Housing New Zealand in 2017. There will be 3,000 more social housing places by 2017\u20143,000 more. It is time for you to come across. You have still got an opportunity to represent the people whom you purport to support, like the iwi in Tauranga who want to participate as a community housing provider and like the accessible housing companies that are wanting to participate in Tauranga. These are people whom you purport to support. If you had integrity, you would see that this bill is designed to deliver more for the people whom you purport to represent. But this party does\u2014we represent them. I commend this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question that the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Social Housing Reform) Amendment Bill, the Taxation (Social Housing Reform) Bill, the Housing Corporation (Social Housing Reform) Amendment Bill, and the KiwiSaver (HomeStart) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u002260d9a08004e94d3eacc13f3dbaf7781b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260d9a08004e94d3eacc13f3dbaf7781b\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to refer you to a couple of Speakers\u2019 rulings. This is Speaker\u2019s ruling 205/2, which reads: \u201CIt is central to the democratic idea that the purpose of elected public office is to serve the public, not to enrich the office-holder or his or her personal connections. It is important for members to ensure that they do not use their position to influence the legislative process for their own advantage or that of someone with whom they are connected.\u201D I have spent a little bit of time going through the pecuniary interests register, and I have just had the Parliamentary Library return a document stating a number of members\u2019 own property development companies in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002249dbdf2db8364ec6a67386654fa6a949\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249dbdf2db8364ec6a67386654fa6a949\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: One moment. Look, we are in the middle of a vote here. I thought your point of order related to a vote. [Interruption] No, the member will sit down. Of course, you should have brought the point of order before we went to cast the vote. I have called for the votes and the Clerk is now assessing those votes. We will have the result of those votes and then the member may continue with his point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a19a2b13b18f4e72b53e51186d59262f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Social Housing Reform) Amendment Bill, the Taxation (Social Housing Reform) Bill, the Housing Corporation (Social Housing Reform) Amendment Bill, and the KiwiSaver (HomeStart) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 12; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002287e5ca7bc5e044f79339c287e8726dcf\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f35250aca60b49de9c811ebf5441b326\u0022\u003EMembers of Parliament\u2014Conflicts of Interest\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022131e57c989e64688847c7544ff1d42b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022131e57c989e64688847c7544ff1d42b5\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. To continue my point\u2014my point is this: we have done a search using the Parliamentary Library research services, and it is now clear to us that a number of Government members who have just voted have strong interests in property development companies in Auckland. A\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bfb06449b824bd8b30e18a0c7b56b41\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, shut up\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022736839db259f442abfd1d5d106f8a2ce\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Shh! In silence. A number\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cefbd4a908664ab3b0fd0f7eefad5c8e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Points of order in silence, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e3c424a3e6848c2b6bd748c08343346\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: It is clear from the register that some 24 National Party members have 48 properties. But it is also very clear and concerning\u2014and this is why I tried to give an opportunity for the Government to consider before it cast those votes\u2014that a number of National Party members who just voted have strong interests in property development companies that could stand to gain from this legislation being moved\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002287393f0dd0974cc5b1243b90a61663a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287393f0dd0974cc5b1243b90a61663a2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. [Interruption] Order! [Interruption] The member\u2014[Interruption] Order! We are dealing with a point of order, and there will be silence. If the member had concerns about this\u2014we have had a 4-hour debate. We started this debate at 9 o\u2019clock this morning. So we have had over 4 hours now of this debate. If the member had concerns, he should have brought them up at that stage. We cannot interfere with the vote. The vote has been taken, I have announced the result, and the Clerk has read the third reading. That is the end of the matter. If the member has concerns, then the course of action for him to take is to actually go through the Speaker and lodge a complaint. If you feel that there are some grievances here, then this could be a case for the Privileges Committee, and you would be able to lodge those grievances through that avenue but not interfere with the process of this House, because your concerns are not a process matter that this House can concern itself with. We move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6b00e6a6a394d7db8f8b494dff77e9e\u0022\u003EAbsence of Members\u2014Effect on Voting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u002200c0324d2a404fbfa0b8151ffed22638\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200c0324d2a404fbfa0b8151ffed22638\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have also received reports of a number of Government MPs having been seen outside of the House, so on that basis I am going to ask to move that a personal vote be called, in accordance with Standing Order 144.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b11caccea3374766a80e4e3f39251b73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b11caccea3374766a80e4e3f39251b73\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have concluded the vote; it is all finished. If the member had concerns, as I mentioned earlier, he should have brought it up earlier. Once we have taken the vote, once I have announced the result and the Clerk has read the third reading, it is finished. That is the end of the matter. That is how we have always operated. There is no recourse. We are now moving on. Your point of order is out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022286a7632b95148c39693525d09c3bbd0\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230671426edb74f99b88cdc094e3999dc\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: If you are relitigating what I have said, Mr Mark, that would be a very serious matter as far as the House is concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u002237985f3d750444909dc19a70ed397a03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237985f3d750444909dc19a70ed397a03\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I understand and appreciate that, but I did raise a point of order prior to the third reading for your announcement, and I did attempt to get that through to you, and you overruled and moved forward. My\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00223aaa3828af5847a39d8e2d6b499d7d0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223aaa3828af5847a39d8e2d6b499d7d0d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Once we have started the vote, when you raised a point of order I thought it was in regard to the process that we were going through at that stage. Your point of order was about what you considered to be some affairs of certain members of Parliament, which is a very serious matter\u2014a very serious matter. It is an allegation that this House would take very, very seriously, and that is why I have considered that this is a matter that you need to go and lodge through the Privileges Committee if you feel aggrieved by it. As far as the vote on this bill is concerned, we have finished that and I will not entertain any further discussion on it. The matter is finished. So we now move to the next bill on the Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d9338d72119f44aa9746fa07f5447b01\u0022\u003ETelecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fc8494652ada4b8ab3c71aee598e3a0c\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u002238440058a86844b7a7a985385c377fa0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238440058a86844b7a7a985385c377fa0\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister for Communications):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. There are few countries in the world where connectivity is more important than it is for New Zealand. We are a nation of 4.5 million people, and a country situated at the last bus stop on the planet, spread across three islands with plenty of mountains, lakes, and rivers in between. The tyranny of distance from the rest of the world, and our unique geography, make rolling out high-speed connectivity all the more difficult and all the more important. Broadband is critical to our future because it creates opportunities of untapped potential. It connects New Zealanders with one another, and with new markets across the world. It allows our best and our brightest to export new ideas, services, and products. It is a vital part of the Government\u2019s plan in developing a productive, competitive economy and creating more jobs for Kiwis and their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EOver the past 6 years the Government has been rolling out its Ultra-fast Broadband Initiative and Rural Broadband Initiative programmes to lift the connectivity of 97.8 percent of New Zealanders. The first stage of that roll-out is going well. We are ahead of schedule and we are within budget. The Ultra-fast Broadband Initiative build is 46 percent complete, and we have completed more than 75 percent of the Rural Broadband Initiative stage one programme. Almost 325,000 households are now covered by the Rural Broadband Initiative, with 80 percent uptake of the main fixed line component of the programme. We have upgraded almost 80 percent of towers, and installed 113 new ones. In the March quarter alone, there were nearly 1.8 million unique Vodafone mobile customers using these towers. In addition, we have completed the auction and allocation of the 700 megahertz spectrum, which will enable the widespread roll-out of 4G cellular networks across more than 90 percent of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EBut although all of that is an outstanding achievement, this Government is not resting on its laurels; we are already looking ahead to the next stage. Last August we announced that, if re-elected, the National Government would look to use the telecommunications development levy to extend the rural broadband programme by $100 million, and establish a fund of $50 million to provide mobile coverage to the most remote parts of New Zealand. In March I confirmed that this extension was going ahead. With the success of the first stages of the Ultra-fast Broadband Initiative and Rural Broadband Initiative behind us, this Government is looking further forward. We want to push on and extend coverage even further. We want more homes connected to better broadband. We want more businesses participating in the digital economy. We want more remote communities being able to tap into the internet\u2019s potential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill is a vital part of this plan. The bill itself is incredibly straightforward, but let me set out a little bit about the levy. The telecommunications development levy is an industry levy that is collected from telecommunications companies to fund open access infrastructure in areas where it would otherwise be unlikely to be commercially viable for them to build that infrastructure. The levy payers can then use the funded infrastructure to provide services for their customers. So the key factor worth noting is that the levy is used to fund infrastructure that all of the telecommunications companies can then use\u2014so they are, essentially, funding their own communal infrastructure, which they then use to sell products over. The levy to provide Rural Broadband Initiative facilities is paid back to providers through contestable processes. It funds non-economic aspects of infrastructure so that the industry giants cannot just cherry-pick the profitable areas, such as high-density urban areas, and leave rural New Zealand in the dark ages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe levy was first introduced in the Telecommunications Amendment Act 2011, and has been applied since the 2010-11 financial year. It replaced the existing telecommunications service obligations liability allocation process, which had been in place much longer. This bill does not change any operational aspects of the levy, nor does it determine the parameters for how the second phase of the Rural Broadband Initiative will be rolled out. It simply resets the levy amounts for the 2016-17 to 2018-19 years to keep the levy amount at its current level. The telecommunications development levy is currently set at $50 million a year. This is about 1 percent of industry telecommunication services\u2019 revenue. The levy amount is not going up. It is staying exactly the same, so the industry will not need to put its prices up or explain to its customers why the bill is changing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIt is worth noting that the levy we are proposing to extend is substantially less than the levies that were funded under the previous telecommunications service obligation arrangement, which was an average of about $65 million a year. The levy makes up a very small portion of an average monthly bill and, as this is an extension of an existing levy, it will not increase costs to consumers in any way. Because the levy has been in place for a number of years now, we do not expect consumer bills to change. The telecommunications companies already incorporate the levy at this level into their pricing, and so there is no reason to change. Let me put this in context in terms of the impact to the average New Zealander. For a consumer on a $19 basic prepaid mobile phone package, their contribution to the telecommunications development levy is around 22c a month. This is the equivalent of the cost of a single text message. For a comprehensive broadband package, it is around 80c a month. The consumer impact is so low that even if the bill did not pass, it is completely implausible to think that consumer prices would be dropped by the few cents a month that are involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EAlthough the impact of the levy on consumers is tiny, the impact is hugely significant for reaching rural communities. It is available to fund charges relating to the telecommunications service obligation\u2014that is, the obligation that Spark gave to provide a telephone connection to every household, options for free-calling, and the 111 service. It funds improvement to the rural telecommunications infrastructure, including, as we are discussing today, the Rural Broadband Initiative. It funds upgrades to the 111 emergency calling system, and it is already being used to fund the relay service for the deaf and the hearing impaired. These are essential services that New Zealanders need and use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe $150 million extra that this bill will provide will mean that we can set aside $100 million for the extension of the second phase of the Rural Broadband Initiative to the regions, meaning that almost every New Zealander will get access to better broadband, and another $50 million to establish a contestable Mobile Black Spot Fund to enhance network coverage in black spot areas as, increasingly, mobile coverage is expected to be almost universally available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe changes in this bill should come as no surprise. We initially proposed these changes in our election manifesto last year, and announced in March that our intention was to follow through. We have been very upfront and transparent about our ambitions to extend rural connectivity, and how we are going to go about funding it. Passing this bill in all stages is part of Budget legislation, it provides certainty and stability to the telecommunications industry, but, even more important, it allows the Government to get on with the job of rolling out the extension of the Rural Broadband Initiative and better mobile coverage to areas that desperately need it, as the legislative mandate must be in place before contracts can be negotiated, and this Government wants to get better broadband to New Zealanders as fast as we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe Ultra-fast Broadband Initiative and Rural Broadband Initiative programmes that this Government initiated are key components to ensuring critical communication services are available to New Zealanders. Now more than ever it is important that businesses and communities right across New Zealand, and into our rural and remote areas, have access to the information and communications technology capabilities that they require to operate effectively in a competitive global economy. This bill enables us to put the funding mandate in place so we can get on with providing that connectivity. We will continue to look for opportunities to enable New Zealanders to realise the benefits of our investment in connectivity, and to ensure that New Zealand is digitally competitive on the world stage. It is with great pleasure that I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6a639defecf445ba79a3dd72c4de1cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6a639defecf445ba79a3dd72c4de1cc\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Let us just be clear: a levy is a tax. You cannot dress it up. Levies are not intrinsically bad, but this Government said there would be no new taxes. That is my first point. If you are going to introduce a new $150 million broadband tax on an industry under urgency, with no consultation and no evidence that your proposal is sound, then it will immediately flow on to consumers. This bill imposes an immediate tax on consumers for their internet, for their landline phone, for their mobile phone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EPrices are going to go up, and it is Amy Adams who is to blame. What this Minister is doing is one of the biggest scams this Government has tried on. It warrants examination by the Auditor-General, it warrants an inquiry, and I am surprised that Treasury has not commented on this legislation. But on closer examination of the departmental disclosure statement at 2.3.1, the regulatory impact statement was identified as not meeting the threshold for receiving an independent opinion on its quality from the team based in Treasury. So Treasury never even got the legislation in front of it to comment on. There is an unpleasant smell about this legislation that smacks of a Government covering up massive, wasteful spending, with very little to show for it. The bill needs a select committee. The whole scheme needs to be scrutinised. It was a Government election promise and it did not need urgency. There has been no consultation on the levy being increased or on the passing of it under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAgain, I refer you to the departmental disclosure statement, where it was asked whether or not there had been any external consultation on the policy to be given effect by this bill or on a draft of this bill, and the answer was no. There is huge disappointment and anger about this bill being passed under urgency and with no consultation. The regulatory impact statement is misleading. All it does is reflect the Government\u2019s decision back to itself. There is no free and frank advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ELabour absolutely recognises the educational, social, and economic benefits to New Zealand of better rural broadband. It was our policy that all New Zealanders deserve connectivity opportunities. Labour took comprehensive policy into the election last year in respect of extending rural and urban connectivity and addressing the digital divides that exist. No other party did the work that we did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u2019 contribution was to announce spending $150 million of the industry\u2019s money, which she knows will be passed on as a tax to consumers. Either she is too lazy or not bright enough\u2014or she is trying to cover up the failure of the Rural Broadband Initiative\u2014to know that you should not spend money unless you have done your homework first. Why should we care about this? Well, maybe we should not care, if this was a sound policy. But it is not. This legislation fast tracks Government spending, and it is more money after bad. It is Government waste. It is economic mismanagement. Who is going to pay? The consumers are going to pay. To all consumers listening to this this afternoon who have got internet and phone connections, your prices are going to go up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ERural New Zealand will continue to receive crap broadband. It is a flop, it is a failure, it is a disaster, and it is a scandal. There is no proof that the Rural Broadband Initiative, as it is now, has worked. There are three parts to this scheme. There is the building of new towers, which the Government insists is on track, and I am hearing that there are issues with the capital that Vodafone requires to complete the job. The Government, however, insists that it is on track. However, as I understand it, all the easy ones have been built and the harder ones are still to be built.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe second part of this scheme was a Chorus upgrade of broadband to 85,000 lines, which go to households and businesses. That has never been evaluated. But the biggest scam of all in the Rural Broadband Initiative is the fixed wireless component of it. That is the biggest scam. Vodafone\u2019s role was the provision of fixed wireless broadband, capable of peak speeds of at least five megabits. So how has that worked out? Well, there are no figures. There has been no evaluation. We do not even know for sure how many people have actually been connected through this part of the scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EMysteriously, into my in-box yesterday afternoon came the response from a written question from the Minister. It was the first time there has ever been any indication of numbers of people who have been connected through the fixed wireless scheme. Guess how many it was? It was 8,500 people. Guess how much money was committed to that part of the scheme? It was $60 million. If you divide 8,500 connections by $60 million, guess how much that is? It is $7,000 per connection. If that does not sound like a scam, and a big scandal that warrants the Auditor-General getting involved in evaluating it, I do not know what is. There are no reports. We were told by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment yesterday morning at a select committee that it had done no evaluation of the Rural Broadband Initiative, and now the Minister is about to commit another $150 million to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere is no business case. There is no real data. There has been no consultation. But there already is data\u2014and it has not worked, and if you do not believe me, maybe you might believe the research that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e4ecb2b10c847a0ab67921783e402e5\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is not me you are trying to convince; it is the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ce7a944f2a74a1aa1a4f285617d7e33\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker; my apologies. If the other side of the House does not believe me, there is unpublished research that I have come across from Colmar Brunton, which was done for Chorus just before the election and which shows that of 600 rural businesses and 300 rural households, 68 percent are frustrated and angry with their internet connections, and feel restricted and left behind. That is a pretty high figure. I am pretty sure that the Minister and her Government knew that this was an issue in rural New Zealand, and miraculously, 3 weeks before the election, we got a new policy whereby $150 million was committed to rural broadband, out of the blue, with no consultation\u2014and no consultation since\u2014and no business case to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EHow do we know there is no evidence? Because the regulatory impact statement says so\u2014it actually says so on its first page. The Ministry for Business, Innovation and Employment has failed. It has failed big time to provide an analysis for the Minister. It is just doing the Minister\u2019s bidding. So how do we know there has been no consultation? Because everyone in the industry says so, and because the departmental report says so. How do we know it is going to be a tax on the industry? Because when any levy is imposed on an industry, it is passed on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere is another issue, a final issue. Rural New Zealand is standing still on broadband, and it is about to get more of the same. The digital divide between rural New Zealand and urban New Zealand is being entrenched under this Government. The 5 megabits that is being provided in rural New Zealand under the existing scheme is going to be provided under the new scheme. This is treating rural New Zealand like second-class citizens or poor cousins. It is treating them with disdain. Even the US has announced a few months ago a new standard of broadband of 25 megabits per second. If we stick with 5 megabits per second, then rural New Zealand is never going to go ahead. There is going to be no economic development, and it is an absolute travesty and a demonstration of regional neglect and treating rural New Zealand as if it really does not matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00222dfc3ae8612e4d80bb84ffb046a34b1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dfc3ae8612e4d80bb84ffb046a34b1f\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am just a tad surprised by the member, Clare Curran, who has just sat down. I was slightly confused as to whether she was in fact for rural broadband or against rural broadband\u2014I guess that is just like the Labour Party. This is actually Budget-related legislation that has been brought to the House, and yesterday when the Budget speech was read, I think the Labour Opposition was absolutely gobsmacked that we, for the first time in more than 40 years, are delivering for the poorest people in this country and increasing benefits. There has been nothing from previous Labour Governments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EWe live in a world where it no longer takes ages to deliver mail. It used to be that people used to write a longhand letter, put a stamp on it, and put it in the post. It might have taken weeks before it was actually delivered. With the advancement of modern-day technology it is almost instant. Somebody could write an email from Korea or America and it will be here within a couple of seconds. Technology advancement has made our lives easier in some instances, and sometimes in rural areas it has not actually caught up. This is what we are trying to do\u2014to provide faster internet technology for the rural areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI know that some other countries that Ms Clare Curran talked about have different speeds they are going for, and some have managed to achieve some elements of their target. Korea has been a major leader in technology and even in Korean rural sectors, where there is difficult terrain and small groupings of houses, the target is only 2 megabits per second. In New Zealand this National Government is targeting 5 megabits per second. Tech advancements are fabulous, but sometimes I lament the bygone days when we had to send letters. There are times when I wish I could disappear from the reach of the telephone calls I get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EBut I digress. The Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill is a great bill. It provides further stability and certainty to the telecommunications industry and consumers. This bill will benefit businesses, families, and New Zealand as a whole. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022449573478f9a482c972c4010d0a7f37b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022449573478f9a482c972c4010d0a7f37b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill, which is being rushed through the House during Budget urgency, setting aside the normal processes of Parliament\u2014to have a select committee hearing and a report back from stakeholders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhy is this happening? I can only imagine the picture in the Cabinet room when this legislation was mooted, and there was Nathan Guy, bright as a button, poking his eager little eyes up above the Cabinet table, and realising that this sounded like free broadband for farmers. How wonderful! The Minister for agriculture could announce\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c120c800c28f4606bc59a653885c1a7e\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: No; primary industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efcba7a89d634764a58acf933f277e0a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Primary industries. He wants a bigger title. It happens in the third term of a Government. The Minister for Primary Industries\u2014not primary schools but primary industries\u2014wanted to be able to say in a press release \u201CFree broadband for farmers.\u201D National is the farmer\u2019s friend. But nobody told him\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdd56634bc0c4a3292e04fc310ef64d5\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s your friend? You\u2019ve got no friends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224eb9a25a1d404ebb8da52856f1e99bcc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, there is another farmer. He is still alive, David Bennett. I have not heard from him for months and months, but he is still alive. He moves\u2014proof of life! But nobody told Nathan Guy PhD that if they impose a levy on telecommunications companies, which is a new tax, it will simply be passed on to consumers, and in the end the farmers will pay. I can see the look on his face now. The camera can zoom in on the crease in his brow as he realises that it ain\u2019t as good as it sounded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhat is the ostensible purpose of this bill? It is supposedly to fix things call black spots. That is when you are driving through the country and your mobile phone drops out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e9c6172cb3e49c0b068320e22a23a79\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d759762b9c14daab684978fc3381cd7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we are law-abiding citizens. We do not often use mobile phones when we are driving, and if we do\u2014which is a rare exception\u2014we always have them on hands-free.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EBut there is a thing about Northland. Occasionally, members of Parliament were in Northland for the by-election. There was a traffic jam as ministerial LTDs, BMWs, were backed up trying to get into Northland on their shabby rural roads, and it suddenly dawned on Ministers that you cannot actually use a mobile phone through most of Northland because there is almost no coverage at all, even on the main road. So you can imagine their haste as they scampered back to Wellington and realised that Simon Bridges was a bridge too far, and that the good people of Northland would not be fooled by umpty-dumpty years of neglect followed by 10 bridges in 10 days, but they could tell the difference between that and a regional development strategy, and there was a black spot all over Northland. So this bill got rushed through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThis is yet another example of the National Party hitting the policy panic button. [Interruption] \u201CWho cares?\u201D, says the member at the back. I cannot remember his name, but he sometimes speaks in the House. He says \u201CWho cares?\u201D. Who cares whether it is good policy? Who cares whether it is a good investment of taxpayers\u2019 money, because it was a bloody good press release? It sounded really good on the news, and that is all that matters, right? Postmodernism got the narrative right. Who gives a toss about the facts? That is the Government for you in its third term. Here is the issue. Have you heard of Google\u2019s Project Loon? Have you heard about that? Do you know what Project Loon is? What is it? He is nodding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222df758b4bddc4698942f304f13bb44af\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Balloons, my friend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e386d109cd94cb39f82a83a00c13476\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Very good, you get a starter for 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EProject Loon is a new way of getting broadband to the rural regions by a mesh network of balloons that can broadcast, and that way you do not need expensive lines in the ground or on power poles. It may or may not work at scale around the world, but the point is this: before you go spending another $150 million of New Zealanders\u2019 hard-earned cash, you had better look at things like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292528f3335df40e9b5516d1db108f57d\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ll wait for years. Mr Cunliffe suggests you wait for years. Let rural New Zealand suffer for years, he says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022328e63e7806342feb985b960dd6aea7e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: There are two ways, I say to the noisy backbencher on the far side, that that can happen. The first is a thing called a regulatory impact statement that tests a whole bunch of options. But the department here in its disclosure has said that it really did not have time for any options analysis because this was a panic-button measure, as my colleague Clare Curran has pointed out. So there goes option one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EOption two is to have a select committee process and hear from the industry: hear from Vodafone, Chorus, Spark, 2degrees\u2014hear from the experts\u2014about how they think they can get the most broadband possible to the most people possible in rural New Zealand at the least possible cost. Oops\u2014the Government did not do that either. That is why we are here on the dead of Friday, passing this legislation through all stages under urgency, which denies the sector and the public the opportunity to comment. Why on earth would you do that when you are spending $150 million? I will tell you what: the industry is hopping mad. The Government may be the farmers\u2019 friend, but it is certainly not the friend of the telecommunications companies right now because they know it is a muddle waiting to get worse\u2014a muddle waiting to get worse, let alone that it is a broken promise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bffd36409531469db0169f0d3c0ff856\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Sounds like the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b645b0285dc644c78b7c5bd71f95aaae\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014let alone that members like Mr Bennett could not give a toss about the facts\u2014they are interested only in the media\u2014and let alone the fact that this measure has not been justified in terms of evidence or a select committee process. This is bad lawmaking and it is a bad process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe broadband obligation that is contained in this bill will be passed on to consumers. There is no such thing as a free lunch. A telecommunications levy can be levied on the phone company, but of course it will pass it through and it will be Mr Guy\u2019s farmers whom he will have to face when their phone bills and their broadband bills go up because nobody has done the analysis to find the cheapest way to get them the bandwidth. But let us just assume that all of those problems were not there. Let us just assume that the Government had done its homework, it had done options analysis, it was having a select committee process, it had consulted the industry, the industry was onside, and that consumers were going to get a good deal. Just assume for a moment that was all true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EAh\u2014the other big problem every time the Government goes near broadband telecommunications is that nobody hooks up. The Government set an objective of 80 percent coverage for its ultra-fast broadband. Well, nobody was ultra-fast to hook up to the thing. The last time I looked there was about 3 percent usage. Three percent of New Zealanders have actually ponied up the connection costs to hook themselves to the so-called ultra-fast broadband network, and that was in the cities, where it was easy. Spend another $150 million of taxpayers\u2019 money with no select committee process, no data analysis, and no consultation with the sector, and guess what is likely to happen\u2014sweet nothing, because people cannot see the reason to spend $2,000 or $3,000 of their hard-earned savings to hook up to a system that may or may not work. That is why there has been a knock-on effect through the sector from this Government\u2019s incompetence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EHere is the sad story, although it is mainly about urban not rural areas, but it is relevant. Chorus pressed the panic button. It rang up Steven Joyce and his sidekick Amy Adams and said: \u201CHell, we\u2019re going to go bankrupt because you put us over a barrel with the ultra-fast broadband roll-out costs. It looked OK, but as nobody is actually joining up and no one is using it, we are losing money. Please write us a big fat cheque.\u201D, or words to that effect. So what did the Government do? The so-called economic managers, who are zero for seven on running a surplus, said: \u201CSure.\u201D They rang up Mark Ratcliffe and said: \u201CMark, how big a cheque do you want?\u201D. He said: \u201COh, well, look, it\u2019ll look better if you just let us renegotiate our ultra-fast broadband contracts.\u201D So they did. Chorus shares rose faster than just about any other share on the stock market last year because the deal that it got out of this brain-dead Government was just so sweet that they were rolling in shareholders\u2019 funds, and the Government got duped.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWell, here we are again. The Government has obviously learnt from its mistakes because it would never again spend taxpayers\u2019 money without consulting the sector or having a rigorous select committee process. Oops\u2014except here we are on a Friday passing this $150 million new tax through all stages without a select committee hearing. Can New Zealanders see the problem with this process? Well, I will tell you what\u2014the telecommunications company sector can see the problem, and even Nathan Guy\u2019s favourite farmers will when they pick up the bill. Mr Guy\u2019s smiling face, as he lifts himself up to the Cabinet table, will not be smiling quite so much. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00227bea189904624434b5d477e68a5ea104\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bea189904624434b5d477e68a5ea104\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I am not sure who that member was at the backbench of the Labour Party who was just speaking but there were two interesting themes. One was about Project Loon from Google, and Labour would know all about that\u2014hot air and balloons floating around in the stratosphere, and it is like the balloon in Missouri that crashed to the ground recently. The Labour members were also, I see, talking about black spots, and I think the Labour Party knows all about black spots because most of them would have loved to be in a black spot yesterday when they heard their leader\u2019s speech falling on deaf ears and collapsing and crashing to the ground.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. It seeks to increase an existing levy in order to roll out services that our people want. I was on a select committee yesterday where we were hearing evidence from people who were saying that they want more broadband, be it in the rural or urban areas. They want it faster as well\u2014that was one of the things they said. This is a Government responding to that. You are hearing very positive thoughts from this side, but, unfortunately, all it is from the other side is ad hominem. With that, I take my seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00223370ddd64b0e4dd392e7c2a9db07a30d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223370ddd64b0e4dd392e7c2a9db07a30d\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi ki a koutou, kia ora. I rise to support the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill. This is a pretty uncontroversial bill, and it should be. It is simply keeping the telecommunications development levy where it is. You could argue it is marginally increasing it but, look, it is keeping it where it was\u2014at $50 million. This increase is for $100 million to spend on Rural Broadband Initiative 2, and then $50 million on a contestable mobile black spot. It is fulfilling a governmental election policy. We are disappointed with the process. We think it could have gone through a select committee. There is no reason to pass this bill through all stages today on a Friday afternoon or early evening. The fact is that the Government has sat on its hands when it comes to this issue since that election promise. When it comes to actual industry involvement, the Government\u2019s own officials advise that no one in the industry was consulted and, in fact, the officials then go on to say that at least they will get a parliamentary process to give their input, which we will not see given this bill is passing through all stages. It is unfortunate that we are seeing this pass in the way that it is. The second unfortunate aspect of this is that this is an area that the Government is currently consulting on\u2014it is currently consulting on it. So at the same time it is passing legislation through all stages in a single day under urgency, it is asking the public and the industry to consult on the process for spending. It seems a bit like the horse after the cart. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI raise these issues because I think that a critical question this Parliament needs to ask itself is: given the questions around the original Rural Broadband Initiative, what we do not want to see is simply a cut-and-paste job with this extra $150 million for Rural Broadband Initiative 2. That is why I support greater industry and public input and a better process. But I am supporting this bill because of the importance of the internet to our rural communities in terms of social cohesiveness, in terms of health outcomes, and in terms of regional economic development. We know that the internet plays a critical role for our communities and we have been hearing about those communities on the Commerce Committee\u2014from Outram, from Mosgiel, and from a host of communities that have not been able to access ultra-fast internet to date\u2014and how it is holding their communities back. I have a vision that kids in rural schools can access the world\u2019s best educators via the internet. Our farmers who are using data to increase their productivity can do so more and sell their products around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the internet, it breaks down some of the strategic challenges our country faces. There is a limit to how much milk powder we can export around the world. In fact, we are seeing it in our streams and rivers at the moment. There is no limit to the amount of intellectual property, services, new ideas, and entrepreneurialism that we can be exporting across the internet cables. As the Government is now, with this legislation, set to spend more than $2 billion on internet access over the course of its term, we have to ask ourselves whether we are simply just building an ultra-fast intranet. We also need to focus on those international conventions, which is something the Green Party has pushed. So rural broadband is good for farmers, it is good for kids, and it is good for our rural communities. It lessens that digital divide, which we know is based both on income but also on region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EDisappointingly, when you look at the original Rural Broadband Initiative though, the Government cannot point to a comprehensive economic evaluation of its outputs. This is important because we know that a lot of our communities are not able to access ultra-fast internet, particularly in rural regions. The Government is able to point on paper to the amount of potential connections, but I think for many communities that sounds and rings hollow. They want to know how many people are actually connected. We can do this for the ultra-fast broadband project but not for the Rural Broadband Initiative. We should be measuring this stuff. We should be getting value for money for spending $300 million to date and the additional $150 billion the Government is now wanting to spend. It is important to invest this money. We saw from the report by Hayden Glass and others from the Sapere Research Group that providing greater internet access and use of the internet by our businesses could deliver $34 billion in economic benefits. We can see our regional economies thrive. I will not name the person but I know someone down south who literally is managing a network of global satellites for climate change research and managing assets worth hundreds of millions of dollars, yet this person is able to live in picturesque central Otago. We know that there are a lot of people who would love to come to live in New Zealand, and we need to attract the quality of those who want to live here by our quality of life. So let us build up our regional communities. Let us offer them good internet access. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI would like to touch on some of the questions and concerns. We have heard some of them from the Labour Party members. I think there are three big concerns around the evaluation of the reporting, around the role that Vodafone has played to date, but also around an expectation gap. So let us look at the effectiveness of the original Rural Broadband Initiative. It was a $300 million investment. It is incredible that the Government cannot point to a comprehensive evaluation. I think when you are spending such significant sums of taxpayers\u2019 money it is prudent and reasonable to be able to ask those questions. We are seeing a market failure in our regions. Obviously, the big telecommunications companies are not rolling out ultra-fast broadband to the level they are in our cities, and you can understand that. That is why everyone, I believe, in this House thinks it is eminently reasonable for public subsidies to rectify this market imbalance to provide internet access to our communities. So a subsidy is valid but, look, taxpayers want to know whether their money has been spent in a cost-effective manner. They want to see the benefit-cost ratios. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Government does not ask these questions, basically, because the asset infrastructure it is installing is open access and anyone can use it. But I think that rings hollow. I think that the Government\u2014and I place the blame squarely at Steven Joyce\u2019s feet\u2014should have made this a requirement of the contract. Look, if the Government is going to spend $300 million of the money of telecommunications companies\u2019 customers, ultimately, it should be able to at least say how many people are connecting, as they can for the ultra-fast broadband. Do not just take my word for it; we have seen Chris O\u2019Connell of the Telecommunications Users Association of New Zealand write in August last year around some of the questionable Rural Broadband Initiative spends. He writes: \u201Cmy recent travels have shown me that the RBI has yet to make a real impact and even when it is available it\u2019s is decidedly average in its performance, because it is basically delivering last decade\u2019s broadband at best and often less than our innovative regional wireless ISP\u2019s have been doing for years.\u201D So we have got to question this. We have got to have that evaluation and I will be pushing through the Commerce Committee for us to actually show some leadership, step up, and do that evaluation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe second key concern is around Vodafone\u2019s role in the original Rural Broadband Initiative. It received $60 million of telecommunications development levy funding for the wireless Rural Broadband Initiative stage. It has been estimated that only 8,000 people have connected to Vodafone\u2019s wireless system\u20148,000 people from a $60 million investment. If you do the simple maths $60 million divided by the 8,000 customers is $7,500 per connection. Let us have that debate as to whether that is a worthwhile use of taxpayers\u2019 money or not\u2014but let us have the facts and have that debate. I am concerned to read in the officials\u2019 advice to the Government in section 17 of the regulatory impact statement that they do anticipate that the majority of funding will go to the larger telecommunications development levy players. This is concerning because there are questions around Vodafone\u2019s wireless versus the Chorus copper upgrades and cabinet upgrades. So let us have those questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe have also heard, thirdly, that there is an expectation gap arising from our regional communities versus our urban communities over what they can expect. The Government has really got to step up here and show some leadership. It needs to improve its communication. It needs to actively communicate the time lines to these communities. To address some of these concerns around further telecommunications companies and customers subsidising particularly large players\u2014and I am thinking of Vodafone here\u2014I have got Supplementary Order Paper 83 in front of the House that will request the Minister to take regard in her decision making to ensure the use of the telecommunications development levy to promote competition, to promote diversity in non-urban telecommunication markets, and to look at the range of different technological solutions. We have heard of the Project Loon balloons, and it is true that technology is changing fast, so I think it is prudent and eminently reasonable that the Minister should have regard to new technology. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESecondly, the Government also, as part of the 700 megahertz spectrum auction, has achieved at discount for the successful auction winners around 75 mobile towers to eliminate some of the regional black spots. That is a good thing. That is why I have got another reasonable Supplementary Order Paper in front of the House to make sure that those existing telecommunications companies who have received a discount from the spectrum auction are not going to be able to access telecommunications development levy funds and, essentially, get a second bite of the cherry. These are two issues I think that Government members should be able to agree with and, if they do, they should support them, and there is no reason not to. There is the Green Party position. We stand for good regional internet access. We have got some concerns around the process, some suggestions, and some solutions to make it better, and that is why we are supporting the bill today. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00222132de2e327f45daa3172e635fbe5c50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222132de2e327f45daa3172e635fbe5c50\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. New Zealand First will be supporting the bill. Again, we agree with the Green Party. We believe that it is an uncontroversial bill. To date, there is only one part of the Labour Party\u2019s contribution that we would agree with, and that is the fact that this is actually a broken promise. It is a broken promise to the telecommunications companies, however, and that is something that the telecommunications companies will need to work out with the Government and the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWith regard to where this bill came from, let us talk about the fact that much has been made of the possibility that there has not been any consultation on this. The reality is that this is an amendment to an amendment. The Telecommunications (TSO, Broadband, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u2014brought into this House in 2010, with the member responsible being the Hon Steven Joyce\u2014actually set up this levy to start with. And in this case, New Zealand First actually believes it is a levy, under the dictionary meaning of the word \u201Clevy\u201D\u2014as opposed to the term \u201Ctax\u201D. So, therefore, we believe this is a levy. However, back in June 2011, when this bill was finally given Royal assent, the agreement that was reached\u2014and the table was put inside that amendment to the Telecommunications Act 2001\u2014was that in 2016 the $50 million contribution, which was spread over 22 telecommunications companies, would then be dropped to $10 million only. And at that time, way back in 2011, consultation was done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWe understand that there were telecommunications companies that were not thrilled that they had become part of that process. We understand that Chorus took a case to the Commerce Commission and argued that it should not have to be part of this levy payment. We understand that other telecommunications companies took cases and sought that. Take Skycity, for example\u2014not Skycity, I beg your pardon. The National Party and Skycity are normally so connected that sometimes I forget. They argued that Sky TV should actually be part of this levy payment because there is now so much content actually put out over those networks. Possibly\u2014possibly\u2014that is something that a review might pick up\u2014that with the shift since 2011, around what is delivered in this digital environment, there are maybe more people, more corporations, or more companies. Perhaps there are more companies that should be contributing into this levy pot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EBut the reality is that this levy needs to be extended for the continuation of the Rural Broadband Initiative. It needs to be extended, and we are very pleased to see the establishment of a mobile black spot fund. We can only assume that, as Mr Cunliffe said, when driving through Northland on a bus or in any other mode of transportation, you realise more often than not that you have just lost signal again. The reason why New Zealand First will be supporting the Green Party\u2019s Supplementary Order Papers is that we want to make sure that that mobile black spot funding is tagged and that it can be used only for the delivery of that service to our consumers. We can only hope that if this fund is tagged and kept and spent exactly for that, then people like Robyn Dixon will be able to stop going outside her house in the middle of the Dome Valley\u2014again, sitting in the super-city of Auckland\u2014standing on one leg with her arm in the air on a hilltop to try to get a signal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI am just going to quote from an email sent to Prime Minister John Key by his neighbours in \u014Cmaha. Let us remember that \u014Cmaha sits in the super-city of Auckland. When we talk about the Rural Broadband Initiative, \u014Cmaha is actually sitting in the super-city of Auckland. The email says: \u201C\u014Cmaha is a part of a fast-growing area, taking into account new subdivisions in Matakana, Point Wells, and further intensification of \u014Cmaha itself. We are close to Warkworth and know it of significant growth as a future satellite town for the Auckland Council. In simple terms, we have very poor radio reception, poor AM and virtually no FM capability at all. We cannot access free-to-air HD television signal. Terrestrial TV signals are too weak. We have extremely low internet speed, a maximum of 5 MBs, which slows by 90 percent on weekends and busy periods. \u014Cmaha and close are not included in the UFB rollout.\u201D But \u014Cmaha is in the super-city of Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWe accept the fact that with this extension of what is an already consulted-on levy, the industry may not be happy about the fact that it is going to continue; but it was consulted on. This extension is for up to 2020. It is not another $150 million in this coming financial year; it is $50 million in the pot, and means extending that levy from 2016 all the way through to 2020. We can only hope that by using that money, places like \u014Cmaha and Northland will be able to have these issues addressed. However, we think that it is also a very fine suggestion by the member from the Green Party that the Commerce Committee pick up this topic of evaluation. I mean, one cannot miss the point that the original amendment that this bill now extends was sponsored by Steven Joyce, and the fact is that other contracts that Steven Joyce negotiated and other situations like this where there have been levies and so on with telecommunications companies have not gone that well. So it would not be untoward, in our view, if the Commerce Committee were to take this as an inquiry topic or as an evaluation topic, and we will let it do the work. I understand that it is not necessarily doing a lot of legislation work at the moment, so there is some space for it to do this, actually. It might even fit with some cabling inquiry work that it is doing right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe only other thing I guess I would address in this first reading speech is the comment about New Zealanders\u2019 wanting to know how many people are connected. I take on board $60 million divided by 8,000 is $7,500\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb05109275424f0bae5f5461bbb8aa67\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Ish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224be4b41017bd4b5baa6b3e0862663694\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014ish\u2014but, actually, most of the New Zealanders I know do not care about that. What they want to do is connect. They want\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffce988284224a1999f71fe32833aded\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: But they can\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7750302d2ac40e4a84be7773328c37a\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. That is exactly what I am talking about, Ms Curran. They want to connect. They want the Rural Broadband Initiative to actually work. They want to be able to get in there. They want to see their children able to do their homework at home. They want their schools to be connected. They want all that to happen. They want it to happen now, because they are being held back. This will not put up the price. In our view, this will not put up the current price for consumers. This has been in place since 2011. This is not an increase of a levy; this is an extension of a levy. Also, the companies already knew it was coming. They were consulted in 2011. The Minister and the Government indicated this before the last election, and they also indicated it again in March of this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI can appreciate that those telecommunications companies may have projected their budgets and that they are going to have to do budget amendments. I can appreciate that their shareholders may actually have to take a cut. I can appreciate that. But I think it is a little bit of a stretch to suggest that the extension of the levy is going to mean that a huge amount of increased cost will now be placed on consumers, when the levy has already been there. New Zealand First will support the bill because we want to see this finished, but we will be supporting the Green members\u2019 Supplementary Order Papers, and we would certainly support the Commerce Committee working on an evaluation around what is going on now. Perhaps later we will talk about the dangers of changing course midstream to look at other technology, because technology is always improving but you do not necessarily change to balloons just because balloons are there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022072815174d2c4d34b6e1099c9423737d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022072815174d2c4d34b6e1099c9423737d\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E What a joy to be able to contribute on the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill. Having listened to all of the previous speakers, I think we are in danger of peace breaking out. Fantastic! I never thought I would say that I agreed with almost everything that Tracey Martin from New Zealand First said. I never thought\u2014ever, ever, ever\u2014and not in my wildest nightmares believed, that I would ever say that I agree with almost everything that Mr Gareth Hughes from the Green Party said. I have to say that that was spectacular, except for the nonsense about the inquiry and attacking my dear colleague the Hon Steven Joyce. I do not think we want to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWhat I am really pleased about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227923a9da63a9419a8b7c582b5c14e630\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s having to cast a wide net for Cabinet votes now. She\u2019s even asking the Greens for votes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222172111e1e794cd0bcb03e9cd46ee9ac\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Mr Cunliffe is upset because I have not mentioned him. All right. I really liked the part where Mr Cunliffe said: \u201CIt looked OK but no one signed up.\u201D He was talking about his own leadership, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EBut apart from all that, to hear that we have 73 percent of rural homes now with the Rural Broadband Initiative\u2014that roll-out has happened\u2014that is fantastic. But the Green Party is dead right. Not having broadband, particularly in rural areas, is not only really disadvantageous for homes and for people in businesses but also it is a danger now. In so many places along the roads, in various parts, there are black spots\u2014it is now a danger. We have mobile phones not just because we like to but actually because it is a safety measure. I think we need to sort this out in the 21st century, and I fully support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3e6049103364484a5238f9f14df823c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3e6049103364484a5238f9f14df823c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: A 5-minute call\u2014James Shaw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5c713035d824925b445db4e110ce468\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5c713035d824925b445db4e110ce468\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill and to agree with virtually all of the previous speakers on this bill. What does the bill do? It increases the existing levy, it extends the Rural Broadband Initiative, and it creates a mobile black spots fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe ultra-fast broadband roll-out around New Zealand has not been smooth over the last few years, but it is critical. Although it has had its rough spots, it is incredibly important that it continues and that it gets completed. That is because ultra-fast broadband is an absolutely critical piece of New Zealand\u2019s economic infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI have just spent most of the last 10 weeks travelling around places like Northland, Gisborne, New Plymouth, Whakat\u0101ne, the Coromandel, Whanganui, and down to Invercargill\u2014incredibly remote places around New Zealand. The divide between our rural and provincial towns and our main urban centres is enormous. If they do not have access to broadband, it is going to get worse and worse and worse. As my colleague Gareth Hughes said, that is because the internet provides us not just with economic infrastructure but with access to educational opportunities, to health care opportunities, and with the ability to connect with one another. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EIn terms of the economy, of course, the digital economy is how we are going to get to a sustainable, smart Green economy, which the Green Party has been talking about for years and years and years, and the idea of weightless exports, where we can earn huge amounts of revenue without having to transport heavy goods or pollute or degrade the environment. Given the tyranny of distance that New Zealand has historically been subjected to, this is an absolutely critical piece of infrastructure for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI will also just say something about the mobile black spots. In addition to the safety component to it, this is a really significant tourism issue. An increasing portion of our tourism dollars are coming from, particularly, China and East Asia and South Asia where the expectation is that you are connected all the time. It is actually not meeting our tourists\u2019 expectations that they are travelling around parts of New Zealand and they cannot connect to the internet and to Facebook to be able to post their photos, and so on. Of course, that word of mouth gets back to their home countries, and it weakens our reputation in the tourism sector. Most significantly, as I was saying before, this is about the rural economy and our ability to develop in areas where we currently have a massive divide. Not getting this piece of infrastructure in place will make it even worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Gareth Hughes said, we do have some concerns about the bill. It does seem odd to us that the Government is currently consulting on how it will spend the money and is passing a bill under urgency for raising the money that it is currently trying to work out how to spend. That does seem like putting the cart before the horse, but we can work with that because we do believe that this is so important to get through. Having said that, it does seem odd that this bill is being passed under urgency. There does not seem to be any real need for it to get passed tonight. It could go through a proper process of evaluation through the select committee process, and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe will be putting forward two Supplementary Order Papers later on during the debate, which are about promoting competition, promoting diversity in the system, and exploring new technologies as well. The second Supplementary Order Paper is to prevent telecommunications companies from having two bites of the cherry. We do hope that they will get accepted and that they will improve the bill, given that it is passing through under urgency so quickly after the Budget. Overall, we do support this bill, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022c171e3b762e741e0bf8752d505227433\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c171e3b762e741e0bf8752d505227433\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a call on this Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill. One hundred and fifty million dollars is a lot of money. It is a lot of money for this House to expend, so if we are going to do that, we want to make sure that it is going to be an effective use of money. When it comes to the Rural Broadband Initiative 2 and the $150 million of funding that this bill is basically going to create, we want to make sure that the Rural Broadband Initiative 1 has been effective. For those at home who do not know what the Rural Broadband Initiative 1 is, that is roughly about $300 million\u2014$250 million of which has come from the telecommunications development levy\u2014that has helped some of our remote areas in our rural sector become more connected. There are many, many reasons why that is good for our country\u2014and they have been said on both sides of the House\u2014like, obviously, the primary sector, the health and well-being of our remote areas, and, of course, economic development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe reason why we have a problem with this piece of legislation is that we have not had enough of an assessment of the Rural Broadband Initiative 1\u2014the first $300 million of this programme\u2014to see whether or not it has been effective. At the Commerce Committee\u2014a select committee that would have loved to have seen this bill, by the way; I will come back to that later\u2014we heard from a number of submitters just, I think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232772c6a0b26447f9dde3c996c27252c\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb49801f007e4fc891612edeb87374e1\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yesterday morning. Oh, it seems so long ago! Yesterday morning we heard about the lack of assessment that has been done about the spending and the effectiveness of the Rural Broadband Initiative 1. We do have an issue with this piece of legislation: with it being a new tax, of course, but also because we have not seen enough evidence of the effectiveness of the Rural Broadband Initiative 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI do want to point to a submission given to us yesterday by InternetNZ at the Commerce Committee, if I may, where it pointed out its concern around the lack of assessment of the Rural Broadband Initiative 1. This came about via three areas of Otago that have petitioned the Commerce Committee about the lack of effectiveness, in their experience, of the Rural Broadband Initiative. Basically, they do not think that this initiative has served their communities well and that it has not made them as connected as was promised by the Government. InternetNZ said in its submission: \u201CThese petitioners are motivated not by a lack of clarity but by a lack of satisfaction, and we see a different requirement. This could call for a verification of commitments made as part of the RBI delivery to ensure that whichever provider responsible is delivering the expectations that were set. Have the committed time frames for the Rural Broadband Initiatives been met? Is the minimum speed commitment of 5 megabits per second also being met?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo there is concern out there in those rural communities. They were promised a service of 5 megabits per second, but that has not been their experience. For us to sit here and say that that is the experience of $300 million of investment and we are about to say here is another $150 million for the second phase of the Rural Broadband Initiative, then we on this side of the House think we need a better assessment of whether that $300 million that has been spent on the Rural Broadband Initiative 1 has been spent effectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere are some good things in this bill, I believe, especially around the black spots. I think that is a good development in terms of State Highway 1\u2014if someone can look at the Ngauranga Gorge, that would be quite useful\u2014and also for tourism as well. If we can get the Government to look at those black spot areas, that will be useful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation does not meet the test for us to support it because, as I said, $150 million is the commitment here. That is $50 million for each year that we are continuing this levy\u2014a levy that was not necessarily promised. We want to know, if we are going to be spending $150 million more, whether the first $300 million was spent effectively. Communities in small, remote, rural areas around this country do not think that is the case. InternetNZ\u2014a bit of a watchdog for these kinds of issues\u2014does not believe that is the case. Because of that, we share those concerns, and we are not going to support this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022291edbdae51e41f8bcd04c796e74ad1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022291edbdae51e41f8bcd04c796e74ad1c\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to contribute on this bill. I would like to share something with this House. Last month we visited Spark and it shared a very interesting fact with us about how the internet has changed the whole scenario in New Zealand. Spark mentioned that 15 years ago the total internet traffic from New Zealand was 40 gigabytes\u2014the total traffic from New Zealand was only 40 gigabytes\u2014and today the average household has got a connection of 40 gigabytes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee978c9e485d4603b0e796c761abe29b\u0022\u003EPaul Foster-Bell\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f03dbf0ff344f66a2f35d71181ad0f1\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI\u003C/span\u003E: Forty gigabytes on average.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a18120a20bc844b7960d1d6984df9118\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Who told you that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cac07d121404820a9993d1830368a14\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI\u003C/span\u003E: Spark told us. You were there, I think, Kris.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228723903cbe0541649fca6645e34f9f8b\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022109fbe05af4e45dfa3ab3bf4915205d8\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI\u003C/span\u003E: Ah! You heard that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207c0e23b395c4efca14ca244511ba754\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: I was at the Porirua McDonalds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220962faaf77d84b0c8ea778d5ecd93f62\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Ha, ha! Technology is changing, as we heard from a lot of members. This is a very good bill, which will make the difference. I commend the Minister, the Hon Amy Adams, for her thoughtfulness and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a521b29a9bdf429bbecbcb56cbf84604\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a521b29a9bdf429bbecbcb56cbf84604\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E It is not often that I rise as speaker No. 11 on a bill with some breaking news, but today I have some breaking news. It is interesting that the member opposite who has just taken a seat, Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi, mentioned a visit to Spark, because Spark has just put out a press release in the last hour explaining very clearly that this bill is going to cost customers across their whole user base. This is a new tax. Spark is saying that it is going to pass it on to its users and it is going to be transparent about that. It has just put out a press release\u2014and the members opposite might like to think about the cannon fodder they are going to be when they get back to their electorate offices\u2014saying that it is going to pass it on to every single user in New Zealand. This is a new tax. It is going to cost New Zealanders, and that is another broken promise from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI will read out what it says in the press release, for the benefit of this House: \u201C \u2018Now that the Government has confirmed the levy will continue, rather than reduce as originally legislated for, it has put upward pressure on future costs and we will have to pass that cost through to our broadband and on-account mobile customers. We are exploring options for adding this cost in a transparent way to our customers\u2019 monthly statements so they understand the contribution they are making to the Government\u2019s Telecommunications Development Levy fund,\u2019 says Mr Moutter.\u201D That is a clear picture of a new cost to customers. That is what Amy Adams said would not happen in her speech in slot No. 1. By slot No. 11, the news is out: it is happening, New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis Government has broken another promise. It is introducing a new tax. Government members should have known this\u2014they should have known this. This is also new and has not been covered in the previous speeches. Perhaps they have not read the departmental disclosure statement. Perhaps it was too rushed for them to get to. But I believe that the Minister will have read this. If members in the House turn to page 8 of the departmental disclosure statement I will read it out to them. It is headed \u201CCharges in the nature of a tax\u201D in the departmental disclosure statement and asks: \u201C4.2 Does this Bill create or amend a power to impose a fee, levy or charge in the nature of a tax?\u201D. The department says, and I will hold the statement up for those at home\u2014they probably cannot read it. It is highlighted, but it is on the website if anyone wants to go and have a look. The answer the department has given is \u201CYes\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a new tax. It is in the nature of a new tax. We heard yesterday Paddy Gower on TV3 ask the Minister of Finance: \u201CIs this another broken promise? Is this a new tax, Mr English?\u201D. He said: \u201CWell, um, mm, ah, you can call it what you like.\u201D, and so on. He would not admit that this was another broken promise from this Government. Well, now we know that it is going to be an additional cost to customers, and different from what Amy Adams said in speech No. 1 in the first reading of this bill. Now, in speech No. 11, we know that there is an additional cost to New Zealand broadband users. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is determined to charge more people for the use of rural broadband. It has not even measured the effectiveness of this scheme. That is the great shame. My colleague Kris Faafoi drew attention to this, and so did my colleague Clare Curran earlier on. We have heard from InternetNZ that it believes that it would be in the interests of the select committee to take leadership on this issue. We do not know whether the Rural Broadband Initiative has worked. We do not know whether it is a successful scheme because there is no data to measure it. The Government has not measured the success of the scheme, but it is about to give another $150 million in the area. Current spending on the scheme amounts to about $7,000\u2014my colleague Clare Curran has calculated\u2014for each and every household that has taken up this scheme. It is hardly value for money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is failing. It is scratching around. It does not have a long-term plan. It is trying to make it look like it is doing something, but we learnt today that there is a new charge, a new tax. The Government had been warned about it in the disclosure statement. The Government knew this was a new tax and it did nothing to stop it, despite promising to the electorate before the election that it would introduce no new taxes. It reminds us, of course, of the GST increase. John Key said he would not increase GST, and then, fast forward, in Government, and it went up to 15 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIt reminds us of the wage rise promise. By the end of next year employees should expect a wage increase of about $7,000. Well, in this Budget we heard the Minister of Finance kick that promise out 3 years. We were promised that exports as a percentage of GDP would rise to 40 percent under this Government, and then we have heard since that Bill English says they would need to double the rate of improvement that they currently have in order to achieve the target. It is out of reach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe final biggest promise that the Government has broken, the promise that was central to its election campaign, was that it would get to a surplus. It is broken promise after broken promise after broken promise after broken promise after broken promise. That is five I have gone through\u2014five broken promises in this Budget alone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is out of touch with New Zealand. It is now so arrogant that it thinks it can say to the electorate \u201CWe will not introduce new taxes.\u201D, and then put them in straight away, in its first Budget after the election. This is a Government that is out of touch and out of ideas. We will hold it to account on this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThere has been a review called for. The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment says that there is no way it can measure whether this has been good value for money. The Government does not care what happens with New Zealanders\u2019 money any more. It does not want the criticism. It does not want to know if it is not working. We are being told by the companies using the system that it is not working. We are being told by the department that it cannot measure it. It is not good enough. Taxpayers deserve better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThen, of course, the point has been made that this bill is being passed under urgency without the opportunity, for example, for those telecommunications companies to tell the Government that this tax is going to increase costs for customers, that this tax is going hurt ordinary New Zealanders, that it is a broken promise, that the Government should not go through with it, and that it should indeed review the system to make sure that the money is being well spent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI know why the Government is hiding this. I know why the Government is rushing this through under urgency. It is because the programme is failing. I know that from my own electorate. The people out at Karitane, a rural area, put up a petition to this House because they were so concerned about the internet speeds they were experiencing. People were telling me they could not run businesses from home\u2014they simply could not run businesses from home, as things were so bad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThen there were letters to the providers and there were letters to the Minister. Nothing happened, but following a petition to the select committee and other petitions to the select committee, lo and behold the problem was fixed. Well, I urge all of those rural communities around New Zealand\u2014if you are unhappy with a new tax and unhappy with the slow progress on rural broadband and unhappy with the broken promises of this Government, please start a petition yourselves. Please ask for proper rural broadband in your areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is failing to diversify the economy. It is failing to deliver on its export targets. If the Government does not actually review what it is doing, and increase rural broadband and broaden the base of our economy so people can run other new industries, then it will continue to fail and we will slip further and further behind. A Government that is prepared to manage decline is not a Government that we need. We need a Government with a plan. We need a Government that will keep its promise and actually stick to what it says it is going to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis broken promise is not acceptable, and New Zealanders will not roll over and take it without a fight. This tax is just another broken promise. The broken promises mount up. A Government with so many broken promises is losing the confidence of New Zealanders. So I ask New Zealanders to start their own petitions in those rural areas, to petition any committee. Ask your local MP how you at home can start a petition that will be acceptable to Parliament and passed on to a select committee for consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis Government needs to hear it. It is so out of touch that it does not even know what is going on, and it does not want to know what is going on. The Government will not launch an inquiry into what has happened. It is determined to spend more money, without asking what is happening, without consulting stakeholders, and to ram legislation through this House. We have heard it today, we have heard it now, in the last hour, that this levy, which the department says is in the nature of a tax\u2014another broken promise\u2014is going to be passed on directly to customers who are users of broadband. Broadband is the very thing we need to be happening for our economy to broaden and get ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Government has broken its promise to grow jobs, it has broken its promise to lift wages, it has broken its promise not to introduce new taxes, and it has broken its promise to get to surplus. This is a Government that is out of ideas, and a new tax seems to be what passes for a big idea under National. It will not do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u00223e469f8a7f1d4e669c005c7aa617af14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e469f8a7f1d4e669c005c7aa617af14\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is an absolute joy to rise and speak in this first reading. It is incredible\u2014twice incredible. Yesterday the Minister of Finance delivered an incredibly good Budget, one that helps those in most in need by increasing real benefits for the first time in 43 years. Those members over there should hang their heads in shame at the two previous Labour administrations\u2014absolutely shocking\u2014and today it is incredibly bad that the same Labour members are opposed to our helping people in rural New Zealand by expanding the rural broadband coverage. Dr Clark just said that he thought that communities should encourage us to give faster broadband, although he is going to vote down this measure that is going to expand the coverage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThis is a great bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b19b9e9c35d04adfb2d86dc5cd3cd138\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 89\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 32\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022be251c21962d45acbe514d51239d1838\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u00224461f9addb364f2b9ef45f350d62f8ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224461f9addb364f2b9ef45f350d62f8ad\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister for Communications):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. We heard a lot in the first reading, in the various speeches. We heard from process issues to Labour wanting to declare this successful, important programme a failure. Well, we know that Labour never wanted it. We know that if Labour had been in Government, it would not have done it. But I can stand here as a rural MP\u2014one of the few rural MPs who have actually contributed on this\u2014and say that I am incredibly proud that we have already brought better broadband to more than 325,000 rural and provincial houses. I know that that matters in rural New Zealand, and this bill is about taking that even further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWe have heard claims that this is somehow a surprise move and we have slipped one past New Zealanders. We announced this in August, which was pre-election. We announced it again in March, which was several months ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201cc784e303044e7bfbae1acf760833b\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it going through all stages in urgency? What\u2019s the hurry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298e04f2aac804bd0ba4c2c85e36cc18d\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is the most simple bill imaginable, with one operative clause, doing exactly what we said it would do. To answer Mr Cunliffe\u2019s very simple point, the hurry is that New Zealanders want broadband, they want it fast, and we are going to do everything we can to get it to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI also want to reiterate at the beginning of this contribution that the telecommunications development levy cost for consumers is a few cents a month\u2014a very few cents a month\u2014and it has been built into prices for some years. The costs to the telecommunications companies remain exactly the same under this bill. This extension comes into effect on 1 July 2016, but it has not taken some of the telecommunications companies long to jump at the chance to announce price rises and blame the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI have to say, to claim that this extension warrants a price rise is disingenuous at best, and a blatant money grab at worst. Furthermore, the changes do not take effect for 14 months. Given that the telecommunications development levy represents a few cents a month, I will be very interested to see whether prices do rise, when, and by how much. If they do, it is a blatant grab for more profits that they want to blame someone else for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ELet us be very clear about this. What Spark is saying is that it thinks that taxpayers should fund its business infrastructure. We do not. This is infrastructure that telecommunications companies use to provide their commercial services over, and we think that they should pay for it. I am not going to charge every New Zealander to fund business assets for Spark, Vodafone, and others to use. They should pay for it\u2014which is why we levy them\u2014and then provide it on a common basis. It is a well-designed process, it works well, and New Zealand likes it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe first phase of the Rural Broadband Initiative programme is creating a huge opportunity for regional economic growth, and that is something that this Government is delivering. Alongside investment from the partners, the Government\u2019s deployment of the Rural Broadband Initiative is delivering better connectivity to our rural and remote communities. The next phase will build on the success of that by providing infrastructure to rural homes, to farms, to schools, to businesses, and to health centres. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c95a481fc5040849c4c090db875578e\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: We back these communities, Minister\u2014we back them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022264c27a370824ef585c1181d8fb82246\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. We back them, we represent them, and that is why this Government is getting this done and Labour would oppose it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWe are seeing a significant number of rural communities able to access fast broadband through upgrading the copper line network. So far, this has included upgrading copper landlines for more than 85,000 rural households to speeds of up to 20 megabits a second. For the last quarter, I am pleased to tell the House, the rate of deployment for upgrading copper lines for fast broadband is equal to about 46 lines every day being upgraded. The upgrade of fixed line copper broadband in rural areas is progressing incredibly well and it is meaning that our businesses and export sector can grow, innovate, and sell to the world, and we want to take that further because we back success in rural New Zealand. Better connectivity means access to cloud-based software and other benefits like high-definition video streaming, giving our businesses a competitive advantage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe programmes and the regulatory environment are showing dividends in our international rankings. We are now No. 1 amongst all developed countries for annual growth of fibre connections, with an annual growth of 272 percent, and we are now ranked 15th out of 34 OECD countries. Do you know what it was in 2004 under Labour? It was 22nd. We have now gone from the bottom third of the OECD to the top half\u2014it is making a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EDeployment in the first phase of the Rural Broadband Initiative has also seen a significant expansion of cellular coverage in rural New Zealand, with 113 new towers and 308 existing towers upgraded so far. We are establishing new towers at the rate of about one every 10 days, which is very impressive. Cellular towers have facilitated greater network coverage for mobile users to make and receive mobile calls and data on their devices. But it is not just about households and businesses, actually\u201438 out of 39 rural hospitals are now able to connect at a 100 megabits a second.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b30b52ece314b878ef7ac5dd9502a79\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b27f68d687ad4f0d94aeecbb1bbedea6\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: It is 38 out of 39 of our rural health-care centres. Also, 972 rural schools are now able to connect, with peak speeds of 100 megabits a second, under the Rural Broadband Initiative, and 51 of our most remote schools have received point-to-point wireless connections. Because infrastructure established through the Rural Broadband Initiative is open access, it means that existing and emerging telecommunications companies throughout the industry and throughout the country can take advantage of this infrastructure to provide innovative services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EAs we know, the bill enables funding to be made available for further improving rural connectivity by also establishing a mobile black spot fund, as well as extending the Rural Broadband Initiative programme. The mobile black spot fund will address gaps in cellular coverage, with a focus on transport corridors and tourist spots. This brings important gains for convenience and business productivity but also, importantly, for public safety through 111 calling accessibility from mobile phones in some locations away from landlines. This programme and the bill that funds it will bring fast, reliable broadband to more New Zealanders, to more Kiwi businesses, and to more parts of regional New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe rural areas targeted for improvement will now be identified through a tender process, and technology solutions that will best meet the needs of those communities will be selected. It is worth noting that the technology to be used in the second phase of the Rural Broadband Initiative may not be the same as for the first phase. I am certainly open to technology suppliers providing new and innovative options to consider, and that is all part of the process we are now working through. A registration of interest has been released to obtain more information, and I encourage all rural communities to get involved. I encourage councils to take part and to talk to their households and businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThis Government\u2019s vision is for a New Zealand where anyone, anywhere, can take advantage of digital opportunities, and we are not going to let only the highly densely populated, highly profitable parts of New Zealand benefit. That is why we levied the telecommunications companies to ensure that the infrastructure is strong right across rural New Zealand. This is a Government that works for all New Zealand, and that is why we are supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022647af8a05d664221bcd684e2493f200e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022647af8a05d664221bcd684e2493f200e\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Well, Minister Amy Adams came into the House and she delivered her first speech on this bill. She said that this was not a tax, she said that prices would not go up, and she said that it was a mere extension to a levy. So what happened within 40 minutes? Prices were announced to be going up by one of the major telecommunications companies. It called it a tax and said that it was unfair and that there had been no consultation. And, in the most important part of the release that it sent out, it said: \u201CWe are exploring options for adding this cost in a transparent way to our customers\u2019 monthly statements so they understand the contribution that they are making to the Government\u2019s Telecommunications Development Levy fund.\u201D Well, if that is not a demonstration of a new tax being imposed, then I do not know what is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAll I can say is that this Government said it would introduce no new taxes, but it has. This is the latest one, and it is going to go on everybody\u2019s phone and internet bills every month because this Minister has not done her work. She has not consulted properly with the industry. She has not done an evaluation of the original rural broadband scheme. There is no evidence that it has been successful, despite what she gets up and says. InternetNZ, which came before the select committee yesterday, said that we could expect more petitions from communities around New Zealand that have very bad broadband speeds and are desperate to try to change that, and that there was no evidence that had been provided. The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment told us the same thing. It said that there was no analysis of the economic outputs or the benefits because it has not been done, and all we are hearing is that it is money that is being spent on rural New Zealand, but it could be going down a big, black hole. Here we are committing another $150 million from an industry levy that is directly being passed on to consumers\u2014[Interruption] Oh, the Minister scoffed at me when I said that. But what happened? It is being directly passed on to consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ec6076a253744aabd8440605c01a00a\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Scoffs at you no matter what you say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223d3940053e74acea3a38514b7f98904\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: Mr English, an extra dollar a month on every consumer\u2019s phone and internet bills is a direct result of a piece of legislation that is going through under urgency. That is a result. Whether it is a good result or a bad result is another matter. I call it a bad result, but it is a result that is going to put an extra dollar\u2014so you give $25 and you take away $1. The Government has introduced three new taxes during this Budget. I would say that the Government and Amy Adams have got egg on their face\u2014egg on their face. I would also say to the National MPs who are in the House right now and who live in rural electorates that they would know that they are having\u2014particularly Stuart Smith in Kaik\u014Dura and Barbara Kuriger, who are two that I know of who are having steady streams of constituents coming in from rural New Zealand, saying that the quality of their broadband is inadequate and please do something about it. I would imagine that there are many other rural MPs who are saying the same. Well, I say to them that this legislation, which commits $150 million of a levy on industry being directly passed on to consumers is not going to make it better, because the first scheme has not been evaluated. There is no evidence that said it has worked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIn fact, the information that we are getting is saying that it absolutely has not. And let me give you some examples. There has been a road trip undertaken by a group that calls itself Hills, Holes and Poles, which is a project that is part funded by InternetNZ and has been touring the country over the last few months in rural and regional New Zealand, looking at the quality of broadband experience that people are having. What it is finding is that for many rural Kiwis broadband remains frustratingly out of reach or unaffordable, which is despite successive Government policies, including the Rural Broadband Initiative. What they are finding is communities are instead doing it for themselves. They are not using the rural broadband scheme. They are coming up with community initiatives with local wireless providers, with trusts, and with providers to actually form their own community wireless schemes. They are doing, in some of the communities, really well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EBut this is not Amy Adam\u2019s initiative; this is not what she gets up and trumpets in the House. There are dozens and dozens of them and more are happening, but they are doing it themselves. What Labour would have done would be to support them to do it themselves better and faster. Instead we are having a Government imposed levy that will be passed on to consumers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1b55b8e2f544630bdebb3937c00e745\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: A tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207d238fe90d246af89ad6ef02975d11d\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014a tax, which is not going to deliver, and that is the great tragedy of this. Even the ministry involved acknowledges that the work has not been done and that there has been no evaluation. It cannot be evaluated. Therefore, it cannot be decided whether or not it is a good idea to invest the extra $150 million. Actually, the most innovative rural broadband is happening, as I said, in communities around New Zealand, and there is one happening in mid-Canterbury, which is, ironically, right next to the Minister\u2019s electorate. Maybe she should go and visit that. One of the problems with the telecommunications development levy, which is highlighted in the regulatory impact statement, is the expectation by the major payers that the funds will in large part be recycled back through them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI note that the Green Party has introduced two Supplementary Order Papers that we, the Labour Party, will be pleased to support during the progress of this bill through the Committee stage. We will be keen to debate those Supplementary Order Papers and what the impacts are, because one of the issues that lies behind the lack of evaluation and the lack of economic analysis in this legislation is knowing whether or not the recycling of funds back into the big players, such as Vodafone and Chorus, has actually, in effect, ended up being a subsidy to those players and has enabled them to entrench their status out in rural New Zealand. I am not making that assertion in the House tonight, but I am asking the question and the problem is that we do not have the answers because we have not been able to have the analysis about this very matter, and that is a great shame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAnother example of what communities are doing for themselves is in Marlborough. The Marlborough District Council has just managed a survey, and 700 people have responded to its online survey on connectivity, which is a very high response for a community. As I understand, it is four times the number of people who have engaged in the long-term district planning process, which indicates that there is a high degree of interest out there in rural New Zealand. I challenge any of the National Party MPs who have got parts of their constituencies that are rural to tell the House that they do not have people coming into their offices on a constant basis or writing to them about the state of their rural broadband. Colmar Brunton has done a survey. They have come up with the figure of 68 percent of rural businesses and households in New Zealand that are angry and frustrated about the state of their broadband. After nearly 5 years of the first scheme, you would think that things would be better than that and now the Government is introducing another $150 million for a failed scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00220d26de2cff4a43929c082fe5d0d1d4a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d26de2cff4a43929c082fe5d0d1d4a1\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Very briefly, I would like to make two points. One is that I would have thought that the Opposition understood competition. I thought competition was actually a good thing\u2014that if you provided competition within telecommunications companies and had more than one company, which would actually be a monopoly, the companies would do everything that they could to appeal to customers. They would provide the best possible service so that they can actually get more customers. Oh, but no, those members are in the Labour Party. They had a competition and they ended up with Andrew Little. Ah, that is the reason why they do not understand competition\u2014OK, I get it now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis is a great bill. I was actually despairing when I saw on my Facebook a post that a friend had made. She is visiting. She is the manager of New Zealand Tourism in Korea. She is here with a bunch of travel writers. They have been here for a week, I think, and they could not access the internet properly in our rural areas. These are people with millions of followers, but because they have been travelling in our beautiful country\u2014what good is beauty when there is no internet and these people are travel writers? They finally got to a place where they could actually tweet, and this is the photo that I got. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI will not lament the day that we have very fast internet. This is a great bill for the rural sector. This is a great bill for New Zealand, where businesses will grow, families will benefit, and New Zealand will actually benefit as a whole. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00222a50fbaa8f31404098379071fdf8cd9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a50fbaa8f31404098379071fdf8cd9b\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E There has got to be some irony in the previous speaker, Melissa Lee, getting up and decrying the Government\u2019s broadband system. It has spent nearly $300 million and the member opposite, who is a Government member, is saying that it is appalling, and she is right\u2014she is right. That is the kind of confession from a Government that is so out of touch it thinks it can tell New Zealanders it is spending $300 million of their money and deliver no result. That is what we have opposite. Honestly, this is reaching a ridiculous standard. But, Mr Speaker\u2014I think, with my voice cracking like that, I am going to turn into \u201CMr Squeaker\u201D myself\u2014I do not want to speak about that; what I want to talk about is the contribution from the Hon Amy Adams, the woman in charge of the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Communications said in her speech introducing the bill, and I will read it, that \u201Cthe industry will not need to put their prices up, or explain to their customers why the bill is changing.\u201D Those are words from the Minister\u2019s mouth. Let me read them again: \u201Cthe industry will not need to put their prices up, or explain to their customers why the bill is changing.\u201D Well, we have learnt during the debate that the big provider, Spark, is going to put up its bills, and it is going to do it in a transparent way so that people know how much extra the Government is charging for this broadband service. It is going to put up its levies. It is saying: \u201CNow that the Government has confirmed the levy will continue, rather than reduce as originally legislated for, it has put upward pressure on future costs and we will have to pass that cost through to our broadband and on-account mobile customers. We are exploring options for adding this cost in a transparent way to our customers\u2019 monthly statements so they understand the contribution they are making to the Government\u2019s Telecommunications Development Levy fund,\u201D. That cost is going to borne by every business, broadband, and mobile customer. That will be across all of the firms, and that is because this Government is so determined to ram this through that it has not consulted on the legislation. It is just going to impose a new tax on all New Zealanders who are interested in using these kinds of internet services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThat is what this Government does, because it is so out of touch. It is breaking its promises. It had those promises that, of course, we remember: that this Government would return to a surplus. That was its big promise\u2014its central promise in the last election campaign. Well, we found out yesterday. We were told to wait\u2014we were told to wait for the surprise. Well, the surprise was no surprise. For the seventh time in a row this Government has failed to deliver a surplus. It keeps promising it. It keeps promising it\u2014always jam tomorrow. The wage rises\u2014the Government has broken that promise. It said that it would deliver an average increase of $7,000 by 2016; now it is saying that increase will not be delivered until 2019. It is leaving it to the next Government to deliver the wage increase. This is a Government that cannot keep its word any longer. It did it with the GST increase. If we think back, John Key said there would be no increase in GST, and then, lo and behold, once he was elected, up it went to 15 percent. That was at the same time, of course, that the Government delivered those tax cuts to the wealthiest New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWell, middle New Zealand is struggling every day, going out to work, trying to pay the bills but getting behind because this Government does not have its concerns at heart; it has at heart only the interests of the 1 percent. They are the very, very elite; those who have the capital from a previous generation. They are all it is interested in serving. It is not interested in the people who go out every day and work hard to try to get ahead, to try to look out for their families. On this side of the House we are\u2014on this side of the House we are\u2014and we are upset that the Government has broken its promises, because it was elected on those promises. It was elected on the promise of a surplus. It was elected on the promise of increasing wages. Now it is not delivering. It said it would introduce no new taxes\u2014we have had three in this Budget. We have had three in this Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI will read again from the departmental disclosure statement that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment put out and that the Minister will have seen. It asks whether there are in this bill any charges in the nature of a tax. In section 4.2, it asks: \u201CDoes this Bill create or amend a power to impose a fee, levy or charge in the nature of a tax?\u201D, and in big bold capitals it says next to that \u201CYes\u201D. Yes, this is in the nature of a tax. Now we hear that the telecommunications providers are going to pass it on to their consumers. That makes a lie of what the Minister said. The Minister said \u201Cthe industry will not need to put their prices up, or explain to their customers why the bill is changing.\u201D This is a Government that is so out of touch it thinks it can introduce a new tax after saying it would not. It thinks that it can say that surplus is its central promise and then not deliver on it. It thinks it can say wages will go up for hard-working New Zealanders and then not deliver. And we learnt yesterday, of course, that Working for Families is going to go down for many families in middle New Zealand. They are going to be further, further behind. Sure, it is really good that beneficiaries are getting a little bit extra, but it should not be the case that that little bit extra is taken out of the pockets of those who are just a couple of rungs further up the ladder. That is not fair. New Zealanders know that is not fair. They know that these promises are promises that have been broken. This is a Government that can no longer be trusted to keep its word. This is an appalling, appalling state of affairs, and New Zealanders will be rightly upset about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe know, of course, that InternetNZ has called for a review. Its representatives came to the Commerce Committee yesterday and they said it would be really helpful if the Government or the select committee or anybody\u2014actually\u2014would take a lead on investigating what has happened with the Rural Broadband Initiative part 1. That is what they said. They said that some leadership would be great. Let us see whether it worked or not. Let us see, when you spend $300 million as a Government, whether there is any effect. The Government is not interested. It is not interested. It does not want to be held to account any more. It can spend hundreds of millions. It does not need to account to the taxpayers or the voters\u2014that is how out of touch it is. That is how far removed from the truth it is. That Government over there will reap the public displeasure as the public see their bills go up for this Rural Broadband Initiative while many of them cannot access it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to say is that I recently read that Ashburton has one of the best rural broadband connections in the country. I have been to Ashburton. Its connection is not that good. If that is the best that this Government can deliver, it is appalling. New Zealanders deserve better than that. Now the Government is throwing more money at it, but it is not going to test whether it is actually getting to where it needs to get to. My colleague Clare Curran has calculated that for every connection that has been made so far it is around $7,000 that the Government has forked out. Are New Zealanders feeling better off for that $7,000? Well, they are actually going to be charged extra on top of that\u2014about another buck a month for every kind of connection, whether they have got a business connection or a personal connection. That is what they are facing now because new taxes are being introduced by this Government. It is a Government that is out of ideas, that is breaking its own promises, and it does not have a plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Government has not articulated how it is going to increase exports. It has promised an increase to 40 percent of GDP. Well, actually, under its watch, exports are going backwards. They used to be 30 percent. They are going backwards. Treasury predicts that they will go backwards further\u2014that next year exports as a percentage of GDP will drop further. Exports are becoming a smaller portion of the economy under this Government. It is no wonder that fewer small businesses are starting under this Government. It is a Government without ideas. It is determined to carry on with the commodity price cycles. It thinks that is the only answer. Well, it is not. We need vision. We need aspiration. We need a Government that will keep its word. We need a Government that will be keeping its word and will actually deliver on the promises it makes. This Government seems determined not to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis Government is so out of touch it thinks it does not even need to answer to New Zealanders. It thinks it can introduce a tax and then say it is not its problem. It thinks it can reduce Working for Families for hard-working Kiwi families and say it is not its problem. This is a Government that is out of touch and out of ideas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIt has also brushed off, we learnt, a housing idea from the Labour Government, but it has not done the research. We saw in the Budget documents that there is $52 million in a capital contingency fund. When I worked at Treasury, the things that went in the contingency fund were things that had not been thought through yet, that could not be quantified, from a Government that had not done its work. The Government was responding to the polling at the last minute. It set up a contingency fund and said: \u201CWe will do something about housing. We\u2019ve got to do something\u2014the polls are telling us it\u2019s a real issue.\u201D Six years on, having done nothing, the Government has put a little bit of money to one side. It is going to be a long time before that solution gets implemented. This Government is out of ideas. It has got no long-term plan. It is a Government that is breaking promises left, right, and centre, and it will be held to account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9c6512990c54100a6d23604dffaabf1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9c6512990c54100a6d23604dffaabf1\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E For the edification of the member David Clark, who has just resumed his seat, the telecommunications development levy exists today. It has existed since 2011. It is already built into the pricing packages that businesses and consumers pay today. The change here does not increase it. It is the same rate as it is today. It merely extends the number of years that it will apply for. So, look, Spark is entitled to send whatever message it wants, but if it wants to send a message to its customers that a levy they are already paying for is going to be charged again, then it risks its customers saying to themselves: \u201CDifferent brand, same old Telecom.\u201D I will leave them to decide whether or not to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThis is an extremely good measure that supports rural New Zealand, and I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf2b20c9d49c4aa9b8588b066968b6ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf2b20c9d49c4aa9b8588b066968b6ff\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. It is not often I find myself in the same voting position as the National Party, but the Green Party and I will support good legislation when we see it. I am not going to stand here and make a political point at the risk of not actually providing internet access to New Zealand communities. I support the roll-out of the Rural Broadband Initiative. I want to see our farms, our regional schools, and our communities across provincial and regional New Zealand accessing the internet, and I thought that the Labour Party did too. We have seen a passionate call around taxes. I know that Labour is, rightfully, trying to hold the Government to account for previous statements, which is right, but let us not buy into a frame where taxes are all bad. I support collective community capital investment to rectify market failure. I support that, I think it is the right thing to do, and that is why I am voting for this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt is right to criticise the Government for putting the cart before the horse. It is currently consulting on the roll-out of the Rural Broadband Initiative 2. It is currently consulting, and here it is putting legislation in front of Parliament and passing it under all stages. I have suggested to the Minister for Communications that it is putting the cart before the horse and that the Government should have put it the right way round. It is obviously not doing that, which is disappointing because the industry is not going to get a say and the public is not going to get a say. In fact, the officials had advised: \u201CWell, at least the industry will get a say during the parliamentary process.\u201D, but when you are passing a law in 24 hours, that is a big fat \u201CNo\u201D to the industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Government also has not addressed the critical, concerning question of the existing Rural Broadband Initiative, which is whether this is just going to be another big subsidy for Vodafone or for someone else. The Labour Party is right to question this. When you divide the anticipated number of customers of the wireless system run by Vodafone\u2014around 8,000\u2014by the $60 million it got, it is an incredibly high $7,500 per connection. Those figures might not be correct because the Government and the officials have not released the exact numbers. It seems they are worried about doing that. It seems they were short-sighted to not include it in the contract. But if they are not the accurate numbers\u2014if it is not costing $7,500 per connection\u2014the Government should front up and give us the statistics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe do not want to see another massive subsidy paid for by Vodafone\u2019s competitors to another one in a different scenario. That is why I have put forward a solution\u2014Supplementary Order Paper 83\u2014and I appreciate the Labour Party\u2019s support and the support of New Zealand First for it. What I want to promote is the idea that the Minister must have regard to competition and diversity in the regional markets. I think these are good, reasonable things that all parties should support. The Minister has intimated that this is her thinking and her direction. Well, if that is the case, the Government members should have no problem in supporting this Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe officials also warn, in section 17 of the regulatory impact statement, that it is likely the large telecommunications companies, which are currently contributing the most, are the ones that will be most likely to benefit from this. There are fantastic regional solutions happening right now, and the Government should not be ignoring them and just going to some of the big players. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is a challenging country in which to roll out considerable coverage of broadband. We have got topographical and other issues. Locals all across the country are already coming up with those solutions in their communities with their local councils and with local experts. Let us not sideline them. Let us, in fact, not compete them out of the market with a big-scale Rural Broadband Initiative - funded competitor. I hope that the Government can support the Supplementary Order Paper. I hope the Government can have a contestable fund that some of the smaller players\u2014the real locals on the ground\u2014can have, and the first step to getting there is supporting the Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI am voting for greater internet access. I am voting for coming together and acting in a communal fashion to invest in new capital infrastructure. I am supporting that, and that is why I am voting for this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00220be77044d9b248d3b6c4d49c61a1f360\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220be77044d9b248d3b6c4d49c61a1f360\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. I am going to admit that I was not looking forward to coming down and speaking on this bill because it was not that controversial. It was not that controversial, but I have got to say that it has taken an interesting turn. The comment I would give to Spark is: oh, come on! Come on! I went back and looked, and this levy was originally passed before the 2011 election, so New Zealand First was not here, but I think the voting was interesting. The voting was interesting when you actually go back to the votes that were taken. I am going to give the Labour Party points for consistency because it voted against the levy then. So well done, because it voted against it then. The Green Party voted against it then, but the Green Party has obviously shifted its position because it can see that there has been some movement. We have to get this rolled out\u2014we have to get this rolled out. How much longer can rural New Zealand stop and wait for this Parliament to make up its mind? Something has got to be done to actually connect these people. They have been promised it long enough, and we need to make it happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EBut the most interesting thing about the vote on this legislation before the 2011 election was that it split the ACT Party. The ACT Party had three members vote for it and two members vote against it. I wonder whether Mr Seymour is going to split over this vote. Is this going to put Mr Seymour into some sort of a tizz? We never know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThere is another comment that I think is most interesting, and this is why I say to Spark \u201CCome on!\u201D and to the Labour Party \u201CCome on!\u201D. Do not tell me that a company the size of Spark does not have the Minister\u2019s telephone number on speed dial. Do not tell me that a company the size of Spark cannot reach out to this Government and tell it what it thinks; that it does not actually have dinners with this Government to tell it what it thinks. To say that there has been no consultation on what is just an extension of a bill from 2011 is pushing the bounds of believability\u2014it really, really is pushing the bounds of believability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESpark is being disingenuous. I have not seen Spark\u2019s press release. I am going to take the member\u2019s word for it that Spark has said that it is going to pass this on to the customer. But if that is what Spark has said, then I want to suggest that Spark is pushing both sides of the same horse here. In 2013 members on this side of the House fought to stop an increase in copper pricing to subsidise rural broadband roll-out and to subsidise fibre. We fought against it. But Spark just\u2014and this is when we are talking about; we are talking about 19 May 2015. Spark Chief Executive Simon Moutter said he was encouraged by the public\u2019s response to its campaign to cut copper broadband costs. You cannot have it both ways. If we want to keep the copper price low\u2014and we should keep the copper price low because it is not right that those customers who have remained on copper need to subsidise those customers who can afford and who get fibre. So if Spark wants us to argue on this side to keep copper pricing low, you cannot come out in the next minute and decide you are going to up the prices when a levy you have already priced on, that you already knew was coming, and that already, way back here\u2014when is this article from? This is from 5 January 2015. Spark had a conversation with the Commerce Commission around its final decision on the liability allocation for telecommunications providers. Please do not argue that you did not know. I fully understand that you may have budgeted for more profit going forward when you believed that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227777039fcaad42afaadbcd68503387be\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1a9c49e37504c25bc584d80f95766ff\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Beg your pardon. I fully understand that that business may have budgeted for more profit going forward when it believed that the levy was going to drop to $10 million in 2016, as that was the promise made. Take your issue to the Government; do not take your issue to the people of New Zealand. Take your issue to the Government. If it misled you, then take it to the Government, but there is no need for Spark to raise its prices. And I agree with the Minister that if it does so when this bill goes through, then it does so disingenuously. It cannot have it both ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EAs for the digital literacy inquiry, I am sorry, but I find it interesting that Ms Curran, who sat on the digital literacy inquiry and at the time pointed out that rural New Zealand was missing out, that lower socio-economic areas of our urban cities were missing out on broadband, and that there was a delayed roll-out because the big players were actually going where the money was and where the number of connections were\u2014you cannot argue that there are not enough connections and so therefore they are not valuable if, at the same time, you want us to put that provision into those areas so that there is the capacity for those people to connect. That will be happening once we find a method by which they can actually afford to connect\u2014that is the first thing. And, also, how can you therefore argue against a tender system that says that all areas now will be decided through a tender system rather than the telecommunications companies deciding that if there is a whole group of rich people sitting in that space who can pay the bill, who will download a lot of internet, then the companies will actually go and put the signal into there? I cannot understand the Labour Party and its position at this moment, although its position is consistent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EAnd although I certainly want to use any opportunity I can to have a go at the Government about breaking promises\u2014and I will mention it again, if the Government broken a promise to you, the telecommunications companies, take it up with the Government. But to suggest that this levy is new is just beyond belief. It has been here since 2011. This legislation is an extension of the levy. It is an extension. The reason why it is an extension\u2014and unfortunately this might turn the Labour Party right off New Zealand First\u2014is because of Northland. One of the reasons why\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d31988a69bc74c93a7299a19e9be420f\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: At the time I was interrupted I was launching into a bit of a tirade, one might perhaps call it, around Spark. I want to let the directors of Spark know that Mr Conor Roberts earns his money because within 1 minute of me sitting down Mr Roberts emailed me to make sure that I had a copy of the press release to make sure that I knew what it was that I could not believe Spark had said. However, I still do not believe that you said it, but thank you very much, Mr Roberts. I really appreciate it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ECan I just read this other little bit about what this levy pays for. We have gone on and on\u2014it has been on and on\u2014about rural broadband and the mobile black spots. They are incredibly important, particularly the mobile black spots, and particularly for Northland. I think I was referring to the fact that on 12 March 2015 in Kerikeri \u201Cthe Prime Minister confirmed funding of $100 million to extend the Rural Broadband Initiative, and $50 million to fix mobile phone black spots in remote places around the country.\u201D One cannot say that the industry did not know it was coming, I would have thought. This was back in March. So all the way along the industry has known that this is what is coming. So to say that it was not consulted, to say that it did not have an opportunity, is disingenuous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe last thing before I sit down, because I know there are other members absolutely gagging to stand up and talk to this bill\u2014and I will have more to say at the Committee stage and at the third reading\u2014is that I just want to read this out from the Telcoreview.co.nz website to make sure that we all understand that this is not just about mobile black spots and it is not just about rural broadband. It says this \u201Clevy is used to pay for telecommunications infrastructure including the relay service for deaf and hearing impaired persons, broadband for rural areas, and improvements to the 111 emergency service.\u201D These things are important to New Zealanders. They were concerned at the time when it was removed. It is interesting that it is now being suggested that the cost will be passed on and that it is onerous to the consumer. It was originally a cut in cost in 2011 from $65 million to $50 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EAs I say, New Zealand First does not just agree with the Government because we wish to agree with the Government; we are here to hold them to account. But the reality is that New Zealand First will not just stand and oppose legislation on a political basis. This is a levy that is being continued. It came in in 2011. The telecommunications companies need to take it up with the Government if they have a problem. There is no need for them to increase their pricing. So, Mr Roberts, I hope to see you next week in my office probably, but at this stage please reverse your press release. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022a69b017724884987a3c6847179bdfee1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a69b017724884987a3c6847179bdfee1\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my privilege to stand and contribute to the second reading of this bill. I agree with what Tracey Martin said. It is a very good bill from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThis Government is working to ensure that all New Zealanders are connected to the latest technology. I congratulate the Minister, the Hon Amy Adams, on bringing this bill to the House. I hope all New Zealanders will appreciate the work that this Government is doing. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbdc5277ebbb494181361f79f4f324aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbdc5277ebbb494181361f79f4f324aa\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. James Shaw\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u002252232694ab604d5eb843474e2b9766ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252232694ab604d5eb843474e2b9766ec\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am standing to speak on the second reading of the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill. I just want to address the concern that this bill is a new tax on New Zealanders or on users of broadband services. Frankly, the Minister of Finance over the last 7 years has introduced so many new taxes and raised so many other taxes that I have kind of become a little bit blas\u00E9 about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThis is an incredibly important piece of economic infrastructure, particularly for rural New Zealanders. We have a huge economic divide between our regions and our main centres, especially Auckland. It is absolutely vital for the regions that we get them connected to broadband and that it is a really high-quality service. Only then will they be able to access the social connections, the educational opportunities, the health care, and in particular the economic infrastructure of being able to participate in the digital economy, which is a growing and increasingly critical part of New Zealand\u2019s economy overall. It has to get paid for somehow. It is a huge and expensive project and somebody has got to pay for it. This seems to us to be the best available method of paying for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI do want to speak very briefly to the Supplementary Order Papers that my colleague Gareth Hughes introduced earlier\u2014sorry, I just wanted to say before that that we have not heard anything yet in the debate that would have us change our vote on this bill. We recognise that there are some concerns from the industry. We also understand Labour\u2019s concerns in relation to this being a new tax and so on, but at the moment our support for the bill still stands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe are introducing two Supplementary Order Papers. The first, Supplementary Order Paper 83, if you do not mind my reading them out, is to insert a new section 90(4) into the Telecommunications Act 2001 where the telecommunications development levy is used for purposes specified in clause 90(1)(b) and 90(1)(d), and particular regard will be taken to promote \u201C\u2026 (a) competition in non-urban telecommunications markets; and (b) the diversity of non-urban communities intended to be served by the levy; and (c) the range of different technological options that may best serve particular non-urban communities; and (d) the rapid pace of technological development.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI would just like to speak to that because we did have some concerns that in the previous phase of the roll-out I guess the beneficiaries primarily were Vodafone and Chorus; that they in essence received a really significant subsidy, paid for by other industry players. We want to make sure that there is maximum competition and a diversity of providers in the market place, and that it does not benefit just a couple of large companies too much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe second, Supplementary Order Paper 82, is to insert a new section 90(4) into the Telecommunications Act 2001. Where the telecommunications development levy is used to promote cellular mobile coverage in rural areas\u2014for example, through a mobile black spots fund\u2014the levy will not be used to fund any of the existing contractual requirements between the Crown and mobile network operators. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThere is a risk that the Government\u2019s telecommunications development levy - funded mobile black spots fund could be used to fund these from cheaper requirements. This would essentially short-change the taxpayer and the rest of the industry. Again, we just want to make sure that companies that have got these contracts already do not get two bites of the cherry. Again, it is about ensuring that there is a maximum number of players in this and that the benefit is sort of spread through the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe think that those amendments are quite sensible, that they aid diversity and competition in the market place, and we hope that we can get support for them. In the meantime, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022735613d71d8140edad86a87cbb45071c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022735613d71d8140edad86a87cbb45071c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Kris Faafoi\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00227bb3946b395a4c688b2434ca75c5ff14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bb3946b395a4c688b2434ca75c5ff14\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on the second reading of this Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere are a number of questions that we have of the Government, which we will also ask in the Committee stage. The first one I will put to the Minister, and that is why in her first reading speech did she say: \u201CThe industry will not need to put up their prices or explain to customers why their bill is changing.\u201D? For then, less than an hour later, Spark put out a press release saying: \u201CNow that the Government has confirmed the levy will continue, rather than reduce as originally legislated for, it has put upward pressure on future costs and we will have to pass that cost through to our broadband and on-account mobile customers.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo less than an hour after the Minister saying that this will have no effect on consumers and nothing will change, Spark says that, yes, it will, because it is going to make the consumers pay. Regardless of who was at fault\u2014either the Minister\u2019s wrong or Spark is playing silly buggers with this\u2014someone is going to pay. It looks like it is going to be everyone who has a broadband account with Spark at this stage, and potentially more because we have not heard from any other telecommunications companies at the moment. It further emphasises our point that this is a new tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EFurther to that, in the regulatory impact statement, put out by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment on this bill, point 50 talks about the level of consultation that the Government has had with the Telecommunications Forum. It says that \u201CWhile formal consultation \u2026 has not been undertaken, MBIE regularly engages with the telecommunications industry, and as such the issues considered by this Regulatory Impact Statement have been widely canvassed \u2026 MBIE has monthly meetings with the New Zealand Telecommunications Forum (TCF), which represents levy payers and others in industry \u2026 \u201D. Point 51 says: \u201CThe intention to continue the levy at its current level was communicated openly during the election campaign \u2026\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo from that regulatory impact statement you would think that the telecommunications companies know they are pretty OK with that. The Telecommunications Forum has been informed. It has got no problem with this bill and the implications of it, but, lo and behold, not only has Spark put a press release out today, the Telecommunications Forum has put a press release out this afternoon as this bill makes its way, under urgency, through this House. Geoff Thorn, the chief executive of the Telecommunications Forum, says: \u201CThis bill has been introduced under urgency and doing so avoids any public debate.\u201D We agree with him on that. He also says: \u201CThis is a proposal which has not been the subject of any consultation \u2026\u201D\u2014but the regulatory impact statement said there was consultation\u2014\u201Cand which has avoided the usual scrutiny that would apply to Government spending.\u201D, which we do agree with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis bill is being pushed through under urgency and we would ask why. If, as the Minister says, this has been signposted and, if, as the Minister says, there has been consultation with the Telecommunications Forum, that does not necessarily look like it was the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe press release from the Telecommunications Forum goes on to say: \u201CThe bill extends a tax, which to date, has not been explicitly recovered from consumers.\u201D So the Telecommunications Forum itself says, well, in the past it had not got this money from consumers. So the assertion from the other side of the House is that this is not going to hit consumers. From this perspective, Spark has said it is going to put up its prices. The Telecommunications Forum has said, well, it has not done this in the past. So someone is going to pay, and it is not the Government. This Government said that there are no new taxes but, when it continues this levy, someone does have to pay and they are the broadband users of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI would like to reiterate that we have no problem with rolling out broadband further into rural areas. It is a great idea, but the $300 million that has been spent so far\u2014we do not have any idea of how effective it was. And before we spend another $150 million\u2014we do not think we should be rushing this through under urgency until we make sure we are going to get good value for money. That is why we are opposing this. This Government just wants to throw money around\u2014another $150 million\u2014without knowing how effective the first tranche of the Rural Broadband Initiative has been. We do not think that is on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002223d221a0a7b94e519902506bd1c5f270\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223d221a0a7b94e519902506bd1c5f270\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E The money that has been spent has been so effective that 74 percent of rural households now have broadband. That is how effective it is, and, frankly, it is only going to get better under this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI feel sorry for the Labour Party. It is the only party that is voting against rural broadband for New Zealanders who need that for their businesses, for the schooling of their children, and for them to be connected to the rest of the world like the rest of us are. It is disgraceful that a party that used to say it stood for telecommunications and broadband is now voting against the bill. It is the only party\u2014disgraceful. I think about the fact that we are talking about it being an extension of a levy that has been in place now for some years, not some new thing just dreamt up, and the only person I see who has really come out against it is Mr Conor Roberts, who has not been that long with Spark. I remember him from his days as an often-failed candidate for the Labour Party and also with Len Brown\u2019s press office. So I think that Mr Conor Roberts is a very nice chap and I wish him well in his career, but he needs to get his facts right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002293ece954d7bd47938cf1594ea36b4007\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293ece954d7bd47938cf1594ea36b4007\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that does deserve a reply. That member, Judith Collins, used broadband repeatedly in respect of her dealings with Cameron Slater, where she showed herself to be morally bankrupt\u2014which is why she is now on the backbenches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246160417b8394e45866878f530ebaba2\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take offence at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223efa32ac440f45e2ba5d3965ed4d18e8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the member has taken offence. I ask him just to withdraw that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e52180e555744d9a3c86a2e4e55b439\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed0e060f23ac430482c26a2051312024\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I ask you to withdraw that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6d4fec7b7a443ff9faf64519e537853\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3c65b7ee7a245609d79a73dbad5f7e6\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member has taken offence. Any member can take offence, and if a member takes offence, I ask the member to withdraw the comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a957679f233a4a84b0f4694ba530de17\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw the comment. I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Could you please tell me which of my comments was unparliamentary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c0ef6188f594cc28de1e553a0e6a15f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The member took offence. It is not for me to judge. The member took offence at statements that were made and she brought it to my attention. On that basis I have asked you to withdraw the comment, which you have done, and now we will proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a869521ce9a94451b0cc79f028ecb3d4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That member, who just criticised a person outside of the House who was unable to defend themself, was removed from her post as a Minister for disreputable conduct. There were about five or six instances\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bba5756319894620ac243441de462c97\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take offence at that. I was not removed for disreputable conduct. It is completely false.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c206586bf281480bb106cbdac428f5eb\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: That is a debating point\u2014[Interruption] That is a debating point, and we are going to proceed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228766ea6d7d104a628705272a21c7fa36\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the first of which was the conflict of interest that she had in respect of Oravida, which was a company that her husband got paid by, and she took steps to advance their interests and then lied to the media and misrepresented the position to the Prime Minister. Having showed herself\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a314957480d4188ad5b9d3412afa0b3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1d03c783ce242b18b823415e14ce7b0\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to make a personal explanation, in accordance with the rules, in relation to the accusations made by the Hon David Parker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022728482bdbadb44b2b323818d7061a7be\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da6ab8a815214480a585d0206b8e8b64\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Mr David Parker is quite incorrect. I was not removed for disreputable behaviour. In fact, I was asked to resign on the basis that I was accused by way of an email to somebody else from someone else. It had nothing to do with me. There was an allegation for which I was utterly cleared by the Chisholm inquiry. In addition, Mr Parker has long commented on a Mr Pleasance. That matter has been dealt with by the Privacy Commissioner. I have been cleared of that as well. I was cleared by the Cabinet Office of any conflict of interest, and, actually, Mr Parker knows that well. He, of course, did resign as Attorney-General.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f76658a1440c411992ab401868ce8d60\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: All right, we are now on the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill and I ask all speakers from now on in to concentrate on the substance of that debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022715c89e129e94098b3858ac0fa5080f0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: What rubbish! That is not correct at all. History shows that that is not correct. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill is said by the Government not to be in the nature of a tax. We heard that from the Minister at first reading and at second reading. Yet in the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2019s own departmental disclosure statement it is asked a form question. It is asked: \u201CDoes this Bill create or amend a power to impose a fee, levy or charge in the nature of a tax?\u201D. In bold writing and capitals on page 8: \u201CYes\u201D\u2014yes. The Minister then said that this would not result in any increase in charges to consumers, and yet already we have a press release from Spark saying that it will; the average person\u2019s bill will go up by about $1 every month. That is $12 a year for an increase in a connection fee. To quote Spark: \u201C \u2018The bill for this from the Government to Spark New Zealand averages out at almost $1 per month for each of our consumer and business broadband and mobile customers.\u2019 \u201D So that is for people who are using bandwidth both in broadband at home and also through mobile devices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EEveryone, I think, in this Parliament recognises that the roll-out of broadband is a good thing. No one disputes that. What we do dispute is the competence of this Government, which just months ago was saying that it was going to cost only $10 million a year\u2014in respect of this particular cross-subsidisation\u2014to roll it out across rural areas, whereas now it is saying that that cost is going to be $50 million per annum. This is in an environment that, as the Government says, has virtually zero inflation. So in an environment where inflation is running at zero, how come the costs have ballooned so that the cross-subsidy that has to be paid through this mechanism has risen from $10 million per annum to $50 million per annum? The answer is that the Government is doing it incompetently. That is also apparent from the fact that the Rural Broadband Initiative is being ignored by some consumers, who are going around the side of that, not getting the cross-subsidy that is available through the Rural Broadband Initiative. Instead they are, without subsidy, going about their business and using wireless technology to get broadband. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThat is why we are opposing this bill. If the Government had come to New Zealanders at the start and said \u201CLook, this is the full cost of the roll-out of broadband. There will be some cross-subsidy between cities and rural areas to ensure that rural areas will get it.\u201D, I think all New Zealanders would have gone along with that. We certainly would have on this side of the House. But to then come along and pretend that a failed Rural Broadband Initiative, which is now coming in over the original budgets, obviously, and is not doing what it was originally promised to do\u2014to come to us and say \u201COh, look, please, there is nothing happening there that needs scrutiny.\u201D, well, we just do not buy that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EHere we are under urgency. We heard one of the prior speakers from the National Party throwing off at the release from the New Zealand Telecommunications Forum, the TCF. That release complains that \u201C \u2018This Bill has been introduced under urgency and doing so avoids any public debate.\u2019 \u201D That is why this is being done under urgency. It is not because it is urgent. This measure does not take effect until next year, so it does not need to be done under urgency. Now Government members slag that off. Do you know who the writer of that press release was? It was Mr Thorn, the former chief executive of the Parliamentary Service. He knows how parliamentary processes are meant to work. That is why he is critical of this being done under urgency. He also notes that it \u201Cextends a tax, which to date, has not been explicitly recovered from consumers.\u201D, and that the industry cannot continue to absorb the tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Communications will soon be sitting in the chair during the Committee stage, and I want the Minister to stand up and tell me that I am wrong when I read out the departmental disclosure statement at paragraph 4.2, which asks \u201CDoes this bill create or amend a power to impose a fee, levy or charge in the nature of a tax?\u201D and answers \u201CYes\u201D. I would like her to tell me how I am misreading that, because I cannot reconcile that with her statement that it is not in the nature of a tax. Look, I do not know. This is the Minister for the Environment, who seems to think that dirty water is clean water\u2014[Interruption] She did when she was the Minister for the Environment\u2014so maybe there is some consistency of principle between those two ridiculous statements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI also want to say that she is still contending that there is going to be no on-charge to consumers. I cannot work that one out, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc9cc8f61284183ae6609f8f589c4a5\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Industry says there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299292af231b7477eac194a3501f18e25\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I know the industry says there is; I have read that out already, as you did earlier, Dr Clark. It is absolutely clear that this will result in an increase in charges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt is a tax. It is because the Government\u2019s financial performance is so poor that it can no longer absorb the Rural Broadband Initiative through the Crown balance sheet. That is essentially what has happened. It was going to pay some of this out of Crown finances, but its mismanagement of the economy is such that it can now no longer afford to do so, and so it is going to charge what is effectively a tax on consumers. That is what is happening here. The Government has not consulted on it. It says it has. I have no doubt that it consults regularly with the community but, again, in its regulatory impact statement and its departmental disclosure statement it says it has not, in respect of this. That is confirmed by the telecommunications industry in its releases today so, again, I expect the Minister to be saying how she can justify those comments when her departmental report says it is wrong and when we have had two releases\u2014from both the industry body generally and from our largest telecommunications company, Spark\u2014to say that that is not the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI just want to return to this issue of how incredible it is that the Government needs another $40 million per annum when inflation is running at virtually zero. How does that happen? The Crown says that the reason it is not hitting surplus is that we have got such low inflation that people\u2019s wages are not going up as much as it thought they would, and therefore it is not collecting as much tax. There is a little bit of truth in that. We all acknowledge that with low inflation, wages and costs do not go up by as much. So how could you, in a zero-inflation environment, need to come along to this House and seek authority for $50 million per annum? I tell you what. It is because the Government is incompetent in respect of telecommunications companies. We saw it with the Chorus fiasco last year when it was going to override the regulator, when it was trying to help out its mates at the big end of town. The telecommunications companies came out and spoke out against the Government at that stage. And what are they getting in response? Because they spoke out last time, they are now getting whacked with a levy of $50 million\u2014because the Government did not like them exposing the incompetence of the Government last year in the telecommunications space, in respect of Chorus. That is why the Labour Party is opposing this legislation, not because we oppose the roll-out of broadband in rural areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0a6e4f158f14cc8bf8e4af39983ee32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0a6e4f158f14cc8bf8e4af39983ee32\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e595e8bccfc24eaab79aca455fc75398\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 88\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 32\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b73f3fe5b194db590a1041d343de92f\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7d227e64e5244d588f0a07501a4f7e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7d227e64e5244d588f0a07501a4f7e7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is by clauses, and the question is that clause 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022326bbe3025ad469d80fe94d5eda2822c\u0022\u003EClause 1  Title\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bda8ce06447342eab6009fa5cd687654\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bda8ce06447342eab6009fa5cd687654\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to take a brief call on this particular legislation. I want to say to the Government, first of all, that there are people in my own electorate\u2014and despite being in an urban Wellington electorate, I have quite a significant rural hinterland in that electorate\u2014and in the rural part of my electorate who are very supportive of the idea of getting better rural broadband. But the issue here is that many of them, according to the Government\u2019s definition, supposedly have already got rural broadband\u2014and yet it does not blimmin well work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe number of complaints I have had in my office from people whom the Government claims get 5 megabits per second rural broadband but who claim that they do not, has been increasing exponentially. So they are getting flyers in the mail saying \u201CConnect to this broadband service, it\u2019s great\u2014you\u2019ve got rural broadband.\u201D But, of course, what it does not say is that in order to get that particular speed they have to be the only person connected to it at that given time. The more people who connect to it, the slower the speed gets, to the point where somebody at home, if they have cellular connections, getting faster connections through using a cellphone\u2014and in some of these cases they are in a cellphone dead zone, so they are not even getting that\u2014is getting very, very slow broadband speeds like the type that we might have had once upon a time when we had the old dial-up over the old copper network. In fact, they were faster than what they are getting now with, supposedly, broadband connections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI want to say on behalf of the people in the rural communities in my electorate, and I am talking about Whitemans Valley, Kaitoke, Mangaroa, and those areas, that they\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299d3f173955b480493c22094d8e1328f\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is writing it down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270b751abdb054911a2700e4267b422e2\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I hope she is writing those areas down. They do want rural broadband. The Government claims they have got it, but they do not. Their rural broadband is actually slower than what they would have got under the old dial-up system, and the more people who are connected to it the slower it becomes. These are small-business people who might be working from home. There are small farmers in that area and they are not getting what the Government promised them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThey will come to me and ask why it is that the Government is now spending all this extra money to roll this out to its next phase when the first phase is not working, and why is it that they, as consumers, are paying for a service that they are not able to get. These are people who are paying now. They are paying for broadband now, as of today, and they are not getting the broadband they are paying for. The cost of that broadband is potentially going to go up because this is an extra tax, and taxes ultimately get passed on to the consumer, to the end-user. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo the Government is increasing taxes, despite its very clear pre-election promise that there would be no new taxes under National. This debate is the first one on the first of three new taxes that it has introduced with this Budget. Ultimately the consumer will pay the cost of it. It is yet another broken promise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI want to say that I support full broadband availability to all New Zealanders and I would support reasonable measures to do that where there is evidence that they were working and that they were actually going to deliver it. But spending $450 million\u2014that is what we are talking about, despite the fact that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment has admitted that there is no business case or analysis of the Rural Broadband Initiative\u2019s effectiveness. It is staggering that the Government would spend this quantity of money without actually establishing whether it is any blimmin good. I can tell you now that the people who have been coming into my office to complain about the quality of their broadband connection are very firmly of the view that it is not any good and that they are not getting the speeds of rural broadband that the Government already claims they are getting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhen the Government says\u2014what were the numbers it gave\u2014that something like 86 percent of rural households and businesses are getting speeds of up to 5 megabits per second, it should put a very clear rider on it that it is only if they are the only person connected in that area. The clear reality of this situation is that in many of these rural areas, particularly the rural areas closer to the city centres, where there tends to be higher density population than in a rural area, the broadband speeds are woefully slow\u2014absolutely slow. We have got people getting in their cars with their laptops and driving over the hill, literally, into Upper Hutt, because that is the only way they can get a decent broadband speed. It is good for the cafes in Upper Hutt if you are business person working in Whitemans Valley, because you will end up going over to Upper Hutt and sitting in one of the cafes there so that you have got access to decent broadband, because they are not getting it, despite the Government\u2019s claim that they actually are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI want to say over and over again that I support rural broadband, but I want to make sure that if we are going to spend money on rural broadband then that is actually what is being delivered. It is not being delivered. The Government claims that Whitemans Valley has rural broadband. It does not. The Government has not delivered it, and now it is saying that it wants to spend more money on a programme that clearly is not delivering what was promised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c655bd846bc7418fa6d90dfccb56e483\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c655bd846bc7418fa6d90dfccb56e483\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chair. Just taking a quick call in the Committee stage of the bill, I understand what Mr Hipkins is talking about\u2014I absolutely do. I have a 20-year-old son, his mate who ended up homeless, a 17-year-old son, and a 14-year-old daughter, and they complain to me constantly about lag. I am assuming, because I am not that up to speed with IT, that lag is when everybody is on Dungeons and Dragons, or whatever the heck it is that they are playing, and there are too many people on the line, as such, and so it slows down the speed. I understand that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EBut what I do not actually understand is the argument that the continuation of the levy is not the answer. I am yet to hear\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022888e6e4a3aee40058fd35a7749834598\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m about to tell you all about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ed643dda6844c9c983d7213d2d9930f\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: And I hope Ms Curran will stand and tell me what the alternative is. Who will build this infrastructure and how will it be paid for, if not in this way? Dr Clark is nodding his head, so I am hopeful that those members will stand and take a call\u2014and Dr Woods, apparently, is also going to stand and give us an alternative way to make this work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ENothing is worse than spending $300 million and then changing direction and spending $150 million in another direction while some people still have nothing. Nothing is worse than that. I take up Gareth Hughes\u2019 contribution around the Commerce Committee and while it is at it, have a look at it, do a review, do an inquiry, and let us see how it went. But do not let us not change horse mid-stream after $300 million has been spent. Let us not leave the Robin Dixons and the \u014Cmaha residents and ratepayers out there on their own yet again with a levy that has been in place since 2011. Let us get real. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThere is no cause for Spark to raise its charges. Let me just ask you: who actually pays this levy? Spark, formerly known as Telecom, pays $25 million per year of the $50 million levy because it is a percentage of what its take is of the market. I would say to its customers that if Spark decides to pass on the cost to them, which they have already been passing on to them since 2011, then change your provider. Change your provider. That is why we have 22 providers: Vodafone contributes $10 million, Chorus contributes $6 million, Vodafone fixed contributes $4 million, 2degrees contributes $1 million; Orcon, TeamTalk, Vector, FX Networks, CallPlus Services, BayCity Communications, World. Where is the press release from all those providers? Where is the press release from the 21 other providers apart from Spark? The reason why Spark has put out a press release is that it has the largest amount of your business, New Zealand, and it does not want to pay this levy. But this levy is required in order to deliver for the rest of New Zealand, no matter whom you have your business with. So I suggest that to you if Spark is not happy about paying its fair share around infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First agrees that there should be a review on the $300 million. There is nothing to be afraid of if it is doing well, and we could learn some lessons about it. What we know from inside our schools is that telecommunications can be a black hole of money. Everybody comes up with another great idea. But what is a sustainable idea, are we on the right track, and what is the cost of switching horses mid-stream? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo I hope Ms Curran will tell us how the Labour Party would fund this infrastructure throughout New Zealand. I hope that Dr Clark and Dr Woods will, because right now as far as\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a14db4bd7424de0adfe339a279b0223\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: I hope New Zealand First will change their vote if there\u2019s a good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b98465edde15440183361eacb5a69173\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: If you give a good enough argument, Dr Clark, you never know your luck. Today is Friday; it could happen. But at the moment New Zealand First stands with the Green Party. This infrastructure is required. The rural areas require it and, actually, most of the super-city of Auckland requires it. That is the most bizarre thing. Many parts of the super-city of Auckland like Wellsford, Te Hana, Tapora, \u014Cmaha\u2014these places are in the super-city of Auckland created by this Government\u2014still cannot get reasonable broadband. Sitting in Warkworth\u2014what are we called? We are a satellite town of Auckland. We are going to go from 10,000 dwellings to 30,000 dwellings in 20 years, but apparently we have got lag. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo New Zealand First will continue to support the bill but I will be listening to the contribution from the Labour Party. I am looking for alternatives but at this stage we see it as appropriate that the infrastructure is built on a levy that has already been in existence since 2011. They have already passed on the cost. Do not up your prices any more, Spark, using this as an excuse. We will be watching. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00220ace3d1c888645179964687c83b97637\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ace3d1c888645179964687c83b97637\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E There are so many things to say. I am going to start my contribution in the Committee stage, addressing clause 1, by talking to the history of the telecommunications development levy and the legislation within which it sits. The Telecommunications Act was passed in this House in 2001 with a vote of 65 to 52. One of the most interesting things about that vote was that the ACT Party, which then had five members in the House, split their vote. Three members voted against and two members voted in favour. The two who voted in favour were the two who had been sitting through the select committee process for the whole time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThat piece of legislation split Telecom in half. It was structural separation. The Labour Party did not oppose that. It did not oppose that at all. The person sitting on my left was the Minister for Communications who brought in the legislation for the operational separation of Telecom. We did not oppose that. What we opposed was the process and the setting up of a monopoly\u2014a monopoly that is now called Chorus, which was set up to be given, handed over on a plate, the contract for the ultra-fast broadband project. We opposed that implacably, we opposed the way it was done, and we opposed the concessions and handouts that it was given along the way to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EChorus has now become the monopoly provider of 60 percent of the roll-out of ultra-fast broadband at the same time as being the monopoly that has the copper network, which sits alongside that and has continued to provide problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIn that legislation was the establishment of the telecommunications development levy. Labour did not oppose that part of the legislation. We never opposed that because we knew the benefits of providing a fund that was provided by the industry for the provision of services that could not be got through the market. My colleague over here talked about the market gap. There are many market gaps in this country with regard to the digital divide. There are market gaps within urban areas as well, with people who cannot afford to access broadband, cannot afford to access home phones anymore, and use prepaid mobile phones. There are people who are disadvantaged, particularly families with children, which is the biggest problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ENobody\u2014nobody\u2014could say that the Labour Party has not stood up for those people. Nobody could say that the Labour Party has not been the champion of closing the digital divide in this country and has not led the charge on that. It led the charge in that select committee, which you referred to earlier, around it, and has pushed and pushed around those issues, so nobody could say that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThat telecommunications development levy\u2014and, by the way, everybody should remember that this was Steven Joyce\u2019s baby; the brainchild of Steven Joyce was to create this\u2014has caused so many ongoing headaches for the Government. He created the legislation that set the terms for that levy to be reduced to $10 million next year. What the National Party\u2014and the Minister in the chair sitting over there was a candidate in the election\u2014introduced 3 weeks before the election, out of the blue, was to just willy-nilly extend that levy. It extended it, created a new levy, and came up with more money. This was because National members knew\u2014their market research was telling them\u2014that there was a big problem in rural New Zealand because there were too many people getting crap broadband. It was turning out to be a problem for National members in their polling and in their market research. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ESo what happened? All of a sudden we get $150 million. There was no consultation, no reports, no analysis and, interestingly, since the election\u2014and it is now more than 6 months since the election\u2014we still have not seen any reports. There still has not been any analysis, and the regulatory impact statement admits it. It is embarrassing for the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, I have to say, that it has put out a regulatory impact statement that acknowledges that it has not done the work. What we have got is a levy that was supposed to go to $10 million and now\u2014oh\u2014it is up to $150 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI think that my colleague David Parker made it clear that if there had been a different process around this, if there had been full consultation around how to spend that $150 million, how to do that with the community, not just with the providers who are paying the levy but full consultation about whether the Rural Broadband Initiative worked and which bits have worked, which bits have not worked, and then how could we do it better, if they had done that in a way that had been contestable and fair, we would not have opposed this\u2014because we had never opposed it at the time when it was made before the election. What we said was that it needed to be contestable. It absolutely needed to be contestable and fair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhat we are seeing in the regulatory impact statement is that there could be capture by the big providers again, which is a rort, an absolute rort. This is why we are opposing it. This is why we are retaining our consistency of opposing something that is wrong. It is putting good money after a bad outcome, and we are terribly concerned about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI want to turn to a curious thing. My colleague Chris Hipkins referred to the fixed wireless broadband and the terrible situation that is occurring out there. Well, what we think we have discovered\u2014and this is one of my questions or many questions that I have for the Minister tonight during this debate\u2014is that there is some information around the number of customers. This goes to the 8,500 customers on fixed wireless broadband, which looks as if it has cost around $7,000 per customer. Who are they and who are the providers behind them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225540825343e64fa189227ccba9250530\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cbbffe0e1c54c6ca78e38d9636b2fa2\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: It is $7,000 per customer. That is a rough estimate, but it is just doing some basic maths.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc30d27eea36482c813128079bc455f3\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: No evaluation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222f8d2f11ab64037a23c5da1749c5b6f\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: We have no other information to go on, Dr Clark\u2014no other information. There have not been any reports produced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWell, let us have a wee look at who those customers might be and who is doing the connecting. Well, the top provider\u2014self-described top provider, actually\u2014for the Rural Broadband Initiative\u2019s fixed wireless connections is a company called Farmside. It describes itself as that, and I have even got a piece of paper here that I would be very happy to table if anyone wanted me to. It talks about how it provides fast broadband via satellite, Rural Broadband Initiative\u2019s fixed wireless, and fixed line solutions, as well as phone and mobile access. It says it has got more than 15,000 rural customers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWell, that is really interesting, because what I have heard is that it is transferring many of those customers over to fixed wireless broadband, which is fine in itself, but it might be interesting for the House to know that the managing director of TeamTalk, which is Farmside\u2019s parent company, is David Ware, who is the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022193bffca651d47ec96882878a18057b1\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Brother-in-law, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b25f96c34534ed9bd7394e77f54fb73\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014husband of Belinda Milnes, who happens to be the Minister\u2019s sister. It is curious\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221729b1d2a6144f3b89c9ba92d5018ef6\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and Jason Ede\u2019s employer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a49a15d6d311492eba546688f2a7ed6e\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, and Jason Ede\u2019s employer. I forgot about that. The fact remains that it is a little bit curious that Farmside, which describes itself as one of the top providers for fixed wireless broadband, which has got very few customers\u2014and I think everyone would acknowledge that, given that it has had 5 years, has spent $60 million, and now it has got 8,500 customers, which equates to about $7,000 each.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bf767a207c348c195a0437524fc7765\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Good transparency. It\u2019s an evaluation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280332c5762c949eea90cbb37ed7e3cfc\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: I think there is a really important issue here around transparency and around what actually is going on here with rural broadband. There are questions about how the money is being spent on the towers and there are questions around what actually is being delivered out there for rural New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ESo I say to the House tonight and I say to anyone from the other parties who wants to listen that there are some very, very good reasons to say: \u201CHang on a minute. Let\u2019s not commit another $150 million to a programme that is highly questionable and needs scrutiny. Let\u2019s take a pause.\u201D We are absolutely committed to rural broadband and delivering that infrastructure and delivering it in the best possible way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00226269e29547bb4c10ae6ec7ca1fecbcab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226269e29547bb4c10ae6ec7ca1fecbcab\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I have been listening to the debate on the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill, and I am trying to sum up what the different objections and questions are that have been raised by various members previously\u2014and there are nine that I can discern. I just wanted to flag these and to ask the Minister in the chair to provide some kind of response to these questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe first question is, of course, about the concern that was raised earlier tonight when Spark released a press release saying that it was going to be passing along these costs to its customers. What is her response to Spark about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe second question that I have got is around some of the questions that were raised to do with the quality of the connection. Is the work that has been done so far actually producing the kind of result that we would want it to? Are those connections actually working for people? Are they providing the kinds of benefits that we would expect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe third question is about the evaluation and the reporting of the existing Rural Broadband Initiative. Is it an effective way to spend the money? There have been questions raised about the sheer amount of money per connection. That has come up, so we would want an answer to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe fourth question that we have got, which Gareth Hughes raised earlier, is about the extent to which we are considering new technologies as part of this initiative. Is that being considered? And is the pace of change in these new technologies being considered? Is it possible that there will be a disruptive technology that will come along while we are still rolling out the existing solution that may actually render it redundant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe fifth question that we have got is about whether companies will have two bites of the cherry. As we understand it, when the Government auctioned off the 700 megahertz spectrum, it reached a contractual arrangement with Spark and with Vodafone to roll out cellphone towers, which meant that they got a slightly reduced price on the spectrum. If that is correct, will they be bidding for this new money, essentially to be doing the same work? Will they get two bites of the cherry for the same piece of work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe sixth question is around process. Why is this being considered under urgency? I will leave it at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe seventh question is related, which is: why are we seeking funding for initiatives now, before the policy details about how that money is going to be spent have emerged, and while the policy design is still being consulted on? Why do we have the cart before the horse, in terms of seeking funding before we know the details of the policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe eighth question is in relation to competition and our concern that was raised earlier about needing a more diverse and multiparty approach with different solutions for different rural communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAnd the ninth question is: what is the Minister\u2019s response to the two Supplementary Order Papers that are being put forward by Gareth Hughes and me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI do not know whether that is comprehensive. I have been trying to discern what the different objections and questions are that various members have raised. I may have missed some, but if we could start with those nine, I would be delighted. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022428c785da5a942bab453b07cef2144c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022428c785da5a942bab453b07cef2144c2\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in the Committee stage of this bill, the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill. I want to speak a little bit about the title of the bill because I think that there are some more fitting titles for this bill. I think it would be useful to consider them as sensible amendments to the bill, to illustrate more clearly just what this bill is doing and to make it transparent to the public what will happen when this bill is passed\u2014so that people are not surprised when their bills go up further down the track, so that they are not surprised when a new tax is put on them, so that they are not surprised when there is Government waste, and so that they are not surprised when there is another broken promise from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI want to address, though, a point that was first raised by Tracey Martin in her contribution earlier, which was a good one, I have to say. The issues are being debated here, and although we may disagree on whether this bill should be supported or not at this stage, part of the point of the Committee stage is, of course, to hammer out the ideas and to have a full debate and to ask whether this is a good idea or a bad idea. We are pretty firmly convinced that it is a bad idea, but Ms Martin raised a very sensible question: how otherwise would this be funded? From this side of the House\u2014from the Labour side\u2014there are two things that we would say are obvious. The first is that it is not wise to fund something that is not working. And because there has been no evaluation of the existing programme, it makes very little sense at all to continue to fund something that has not been proven to be effective or to be working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ELet us put that to one side, because we all want good rural broadband. I think that is the one point that everybody around the House is unanimous on. It is something that will take the country forward. The Government seems to have a somewhat limited vision of what might be possible, but we would all agree that rural broadband needs to be better. I wonder whether the Government might consider investing its Future Investment Fund in such an activity. I mean, what is that fund for if it is not for investing in future infrastructure? That the Government might choose to invest that money in it seems the most logical thing in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ELet us put to one side the fact that it has promised to spend that money 10 or 15 times over. It talked about paying off debt at one stage; well, it is $88 billion in debt. The $4.8 billion it got from flogging off the family silver will not cover that. But if we actually take the promises that it has owned up to and has put in ink, in terms of the Future Investment Fund, this would seem to be a sensible thing to fund that out of, rather than by imposing a new tax on users. We have seen earlier this evening Spark come out and say that this is a tax that it will be transparently passing on to its customers. We have had the Telecommunications Carriers Forum come out and say that it has been bearing the cost in this industry and that it cannot continue to bear it any longer. It thought this tax was time limited, but a new tax has been issued that takes it for ever into the future. This Government has promised not to introduce a new tax and now it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESo the first of the alternative titles that I suggest should be considered by the Government is\u2014let us just call it what it is\u2014the \u201CTelecommunications (Development Tax) Amendment Bill\u201D. This is a Government that is trying to introduce three new taxes, despite having promised\u2014crossed fingers behind its back\u2014that it would introduce no new taxes if it was elected. In this Budget we have got three of them. This is a Government that is introducing a new tax, and we have had the proof of that, of course, in the departmental disclosure statement, which says quite clearly: \u201CDoes this bill create or amend a power to impose a fee, levy or charge in the nature of a tax?\u201D. And the department says, in the biggest letters on the page, \u201CYes\u201D. This is in the nature of a tax. Bill English has tried to deny that, but the public of New Zealand know a tax when they see one. It is an additional charge on top of what they are currently being charged\u2014exactly what the industry now proposes to pass on transparently as an additional charge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESo we have got that, and it makes sense, therefore, to call this bill the \u201CTelecommunications (Development Tax) Amendment) Bill\u201D. That would be plainer. That would be clearer. More people know what a tax is than what a levy is. It is a nice clear way of saying what it is. This tax, of course, is going to be imposed on small businesses around the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00226d3ec15feea84d51aa90ad581f56143b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d3ec15feea84d51aa90ad581f56143b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I have to say that I was enjoying the contribution of my colleague David Clark, and I will pick up where he left off. Members opposite seem to be disputing the question of whether this is, in fact, a tax. In this Committee stage, it is proper for us to address that question in the debate on clause 1 of the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill, because that contains the title. The fact that this is a tax is, I think, quite plain. It is a cost that is imposed on members of the public through this instrument that applies through the companies concerned. We had a statement out today from Spark\u2014the old Telecom New Zealand\u2014which uses the language of a tax and which makes it clear that it is going to have to pass the cost on to its customers. What is more, it is looking at doing so with an explicit splitting out in everybody\u2019s phone bills so that they can see what this extra tax is. This is an extra tax, and it will be shown on people\u2019s phone bills. That is a statement from Spark. I think that colleagues and members of the public know that in the past I have had cause to take issue with some of the statements from the old Telecom New Zealand, so I do not give it a soft run, but I will take it at its word on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIf that was not good enough for people, let us turn to the statement published today, Friday, 22 May, on the Telecommunications Carriers Forum. This is the industry body. It is not one company pushing its own barrow; this is the forum of all the players. It talks about this being unnecessary to pass under urgency \u201Cin order to tax the industry\u201D\u2014this is quoting from it. This is the industry body. The industry body is calling it a tax: \u201CThe bill extends a tax, which to date, has not been explicitly recovered from consumers. However, the industry cannot continue to absorb ongoing costs of this magnitude.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EMembers opposite have said \u201CLook, we don\u2019t need a select committee process because there is nothing new in this.\u201D Well, what is new? I think Mr Moutter, the chief executive officer of Spark, makes the point very clearly: the original tax was a one-off to support the development of ultra-fast broadband through the Rural Broadband Initiative. It was time limited, and the downsizing of those taxes was legislated for in the formal bill. So to change the law is, in fact, a change, because, under the continuous disclosure rules of the stock market, the companies\u2019 concerns have to build that into their forecasts, and that has to be notified to the exchange and made public. If Parliament wants to override\u2014people will see the irony of my having to set this out for members opposite\u2014those private property rights that are enshrined in the securities legislation, then we are using legislation to do it; therefore, something is definitely changing. We are overriding legal rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhat then is the proper framework of objectives to consider the questions? I want to commend our Green colleagues for the list that they have come up with. I am going to refer to it again. Let me just set out for the public what Labour\u2019s goals are here, when we look at this type of policy issue. The first one reminds me of the old digital strategy with the \u201Cthree Cs\u201D. We want great connectivity for all New Zealanders. To be frank, we want faster, cheaper broadband wherever you are in New Zealand. We support the goal\u2014I think every member of this House does\u2014that broadband ought to be ubiquitous and available anywhere in New Zealand. The whole country benefits from the fact that everybody is on the network. You can ring people up; their phone numbers are in the phone book or they are on the net, or what have you. Nobody is left out, and the whole country benefits. That is the first goal: faster, cheaper, ubiquitous connection. But it leaves open the question: is this the right instrument? Is this helping? How would you know? There has been no evaluation done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe second one is user capability. We are opposed to digital divides. We abhor the digital divide, which is an income-related divide where about a third of households\u2014low-income households\u2014do not have fast broadband access. And that impedes children\u2019s learning and all sorts of things, such as access to Government services. We want every New Zealander to have access to the net at speeds that they can use. We are also concerned about the rural-urban divide. We know that there has to be a technology mix, starting off with fibre in the backhaul, out to, perhaps, ADSL, copper, VDSL, or whatever else is the current flavour of technology, and then out to mobile and then out to satellite. Or perhaps Project Loon will bear fruit and we will have a mesh network of balloons\u2014who knows. The technology frontier will shift. That is the point. Because the technology frontier is shifting, because technology is changing, it is prudent and proper, and really important, for the Government of the day to carry out a proper analysis of how the tax has been operating, before imposing a new tax over the top of it. That brings us, of course, to the third \u201CC\u201D: content. We want a vibrant content environment. We want there to be competitive conditions online so that New Zealanders can access the content that they need and want on the cheapest possible terms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThose are the goals. What questions arise? I am just going to come back to Mr Shaw\u2019s list. I think it is a really good one. Will these taxes be passed on to consumers? Well, we have the industry body and one of the largest players saying that they will. That is, at the very least, a very important and open question. Secondly, what about the quality of connections? There are two issues. There is a technical sufficiency argument, and there is a benefit-flow argument\u2014who gets what? They need to be answered. The third issue: has there been sufficient evaluation and reporting? Well, there clearly has not been, because there is not a proper regulatory impact statement and there has not been an options analysis done by officials. Fourthly, what do we know about disruptive technologies? I mentioned Project Loon; there could be others. The point is: who would know? The Government has not done the work. Fifthly, will companies have two bites at the cherry? Are they under existing obligations? I do not know, we do not know, and the public does not know, but that is a very important question, because we are opposed to companies double-dipping. If they are contractually bound because they have concessional terms under a previous spectrum licence auction, then we should not be making New Zealanders pay twice by imposing a new tax on them, especially not under urgency, in the dead of night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWas the process proper? Well, clearly it was not. There has not been an options analysis done, and there has not been a regulatory impact statement done. Why should seeking funding from policy have been designed in this way? Was the cart before the horse? It looks like it was. To answer that question, we turn to the OECD\u2019s telecommunications policy unit and a very major report on telecommunications development obligations or levies, which was published in 2012 and which was widely regarded at the time as \u201Cthe gospel\u201D. The report sets out the following points, which it is a shame that the Government has not, apparently, addressed. First, \u201Cdefine the specific features of the service under consideration,\u201D. Second, \u201Cdetermine whether broadband is essential for full participation in society,\u201D and therefore in the public interests. Third, \u201Cestablish that market mechanisms are insufficient to ensure that service is available\u201D. Fourth, \u201Cassess the options of imposing a universal service obligation relative to other policy alternatives,\u201D Note: that has not happened in this case. Fifth, \u201Cevaluate those alternatives in light of the broader policy objectives and other ongoing programmes.\u201D That has not happened, either. What are the criteria that an evaluation should take care of? Page 24 of the OECD study lists parsimony, sufficiency, neutrality, focus, adaptability, predictability, accountability, and effectiveness. It is quite a long list. The OECD has done a lot of work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWell, what are they saying? Turn to page 27. \u201CAt present, revising universal service policies to include service from any location may not be feasible in all OECD countries.\u201D It goes on to say that those with high population density like Korea will have no problem. Those with low population density like Sweden, Australia, or New Zealand may well have a problem, and the issue of a universal service obligation is a very pertinent issue to be evaluated and raised. There is certainly, in terms of the OECD\u2019s work, no case for an automatic roll-over. This is highly contentious stuff. What issues arise? Well, what they name is cost relative to benefits. \u201CIn large countries with large unpopulated or sparsely populated areas\u201D\u2014like the South Island of New Zealand\u2014\u201C\u2026the cost of providing access from any location would exceed the benefits.\u201D How much is too much? How far away is too far away? We are never going to run a fat fibre pipe to Mount Cook. There are not enough people there. But we may want to use mobile broadband, satellite, or \u201CLoon\u201D\u2014who knows. The point is, the work has not been done and the public does not get access to that information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe OECD asks what the range of services to be provided is. What is the impact on competition of imposing a TDO? What is the impact on the quality of service? What about the affordability of the service if the tax is passed on to the consumer? What about technical issues like emergency services and social tariffs, and so on and so forth? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u002249b9b0b043a34ff290f08ddf562bbb4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249b9b0b043a34ff290f08ddf562bbb4d\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister for Communications):\u003C/span\u003E Given that the debate on clause 1 is quite a wide-ranging debate, it is probably a useful chance to take my call on this matter. I was not otherwise intending to speak on the title, but I do want to make a few comments. The first is that we have heard repeatedly from Labour in this debate\u2014as if saying it often enough makes it true\u2014that this is somehow a new tax. It has been in place in its current form and at its current level since 2011, and it was in place at a higher level under the telecommunications service obligation before that. Neither is it something that we have decided to do post-election without telling anyone. It was announced in August as part of our election manifesto, which said that, if elected, this is what the National Government would do. So there is no question that this is in anyway inconsistent, nor can anybody, through any sort of twisting of the facts to suit the argument, suggest that this is new. It is not new.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe costs are in place. The costs of this are already in place. There is zero increase to the costs to the telecommunications companies. I have said that there is zero justification for any increase in their bills. I have never said that they will not be opportunistic and craven and try to justify some profit grab through it. I have said that there is no increase in costs to the telecommunications companies, and, therefore, zero justification for them to increase their fees. If Spark wants to announce that it is going to put its prices up, that is something it will have to explain to its consumers, but let me tell you, as others have said in this Committee, it cannot sensibly justify raising prices because of this legislation. These levy extensions that we are talking about tonight do not take effect until 2016. So if they do put the cost up, let us remember two things: when and by how much will they go up? At the very most we are talking about cents per bill, per month. So if they put costs up from 1 July 2016 by more than 19 cents for a prepaid plan and maybe up to 80 cents for a consumer, then they are not being honest with New Zealanders. Even then, it is already in your bill, so they would be double-charging you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ECan I make the point that it is very easy to stand in this House and say how much you support rural broadband but not be prepared to do anything to make it happen. Here is the reality: we are building infrastructure in rural communities that telecommunications companies will use to sell their products. The telecommunications companies that are paying this charge use this for their business services. So who should pay for it\u2014taxpaying mums and dads or the telecommunications companies? My view is that the telecommunications companies should pay. When Labour says to take it out of general taxation, it is saying that we should pay for the infrastructure that Spark, Vodafone, Chorus, MyRepublic, CallPlus Services, and all of the others use to carry on their business. That does not make sense. That would be irrational and unreasonable. It should fall on the industry. Those in the industry should not be allowed to sell the service just where they can make a lot of money. Instead, we levy them to say that, actually, we have an expectation that they will provide services everywhere. That money then provides the communal infrastructure that those same companies provide their services over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe question that has come up also is: \u201CWhy is it urgent?\u201D. This is a fair question. I accept that, because, yes, the extension takes effect from July 2016. I will tell you why it is urgent. It is because anyone who understands how these processes work will know that I cannot go out and start negotiating for contracts for this to work until the money is legislated for. So the first step is that there has to be a legislative mandate to say that the money is available; then I can start the process. The longer that is pushed out, the longer it will be until people get better broadband. To every member in this House who has talked meaningfully about \u201COh, we have got to get better broadband, it is taking too long.\u201D, I say that that is where the urgency is. The urgency is that New Zealanders want this, and they want this as soon as possible. This bill has been made the simplest bill possible. It does not talk about the levy\u2019s operation, how it is allocated, how it is spent, or how the Commerce Commission divides it. It simply provides the basis for the money, so that we can get out and start getting these processes in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ELet me close by just saying this: broadband is critical to everyone in New Zealand\u2014everyone. Somebody has to pay, and I am absolutely comfortable that the right place for that payment to fall is a levy on the telecommunications companies that will use it and that will benefit. There is zero justification for anyone to increase prices as a result, and if they do, that is a conversation that they should be having with their consumers. If I was their consumer, I would be looking to shop around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6bb91d18db149d98cc05b314439d861\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6bb91d18db149d98cc05b314439d861\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to thank the Minister for taking a call, because now everything is as clear as mud. I am really happy, because it is so clear that it actually goes against what the Telecommunications Carriers Forum has said in its press release tonight. The Minister has said that the telecommunications companies are the ones to blame here, and that this is not a tax. But it is clear from the press release put out by the Telecommunications Carriers Forum, I guess a couple of hours ago, that this situation, as I said before, is as clear as mud.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe Minister said that because of the level of levy\u2014or tax, I should say\u2014the prices should have come down. Well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221511e0af1b814300afb1603ef80307e7\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: No, I didn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022531d19cc5da649999792ed7602c80b62\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you did. But the Telecommunications Carriers Forum disputes that, and in its press release from this evening, I guess, it says that the bill that we are currently debating \u201Cextends a tax, which to date, has not been explicitly recovered from consumers. However, the industry cannot continue to absorb ongoing costs of this magnitude.\u201D So who is right? Is it the Telecommunications Carriers Forum, which is saying that \u201CWe have absorbed this for some time and now we have to charge.\u201D, or is it the Minister, who says: \u201CWell, it shouldn\u2019t be double-charging.\u201D? I guess that is why we have got a problem with this piece of legislation, because, as I said, the situation is as clear as mud.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis is a new tax. In fact, the departmental report on this bill says it is a new tax. It has been quoted, but just because the Minister said that this is not a new tax I will quote it again. Part 4 of the departmental report asks a very specific question, at 4.2. That question is: \u201CDoes this Bill create or amend a power to impose a fee, levy or charge in the nature of a tax?\u201D, and the answer is yes. The answer is yes. And then Spark\u2014[Interruption] Here is a question for the Minister, if she is disputing a lot of things that I have said today. Does she dispute something that she said today? In her first reading speech she said: \u201C\u2026 the industry will not need to put its prices up, or explain to its customers why their bill is changing.\u201D Well, that would be great because she is obviously trying to cushion the market, and people at home will be worried if they are going to have to pay more in their bills. But the reality is that less than an hour later, Spark said it was going to put its prices up by $1 a month. You can question whether that is the fault of the company\u2014and that question has been asked by New Zealand First and also by the Minister\u2014or whether it is the fault of the Government, but the reality is that people are going to be paying more for their monthly bill. They are going to be paying more for their monthly bill\u2014that is the cold, hard reality of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis is a new tax, and this Government is trying to spin its behind off to say: \u201COh, well, it\u2019s not our problem. It\u2019s not our fault.\u201D Well, you created this problem\u2014you created this problem. We are not going to vote for this piece of legislation, for a very good reason: $300 million has already been spent and, as we on this side of the Chamber have said, the assessment and the critique of the Rural Broadband Initiative phase one has been, well, less than ideal. So if we are going to go and spend another $150 million, which is going to be put together by this tax in this bill, I think the New Zealand public would like us to know whether the Rural Broadband Initiative phase one has been effective or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe Government claims that 86 percent of rural users now have access to this. Well, we do not necessarily think that that is the case. There has been no assessment of the Rural Broadband Initiative phase one. This issue was before the Commerce Committee yesterday morning. InternetNZ wants us to have an assessment of the $300 million\u2014which is, you know, not pocket change\u2014to find out whether it has been effective. I do not think it is a bad thing for members on this side of the Chamber to say: \u201CWas that $300 million spent well, so that we can commit another $150 million to the next phase of this programme?\u201D. We cannot sit here and say: \u201CWell, yes, go and do whatever you like.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWe absolutely agree with the objectives of the Rural Broadband Initiative, but $450 million is a hell of a lot of money, and we want to know whether the first $300 million has been effective or not. We have big questions about that. We have had a number of communities come to our select committee and say: \u201CWell, our experience hasn\u2019t been that flash.\u201D So, is this something that is happening up and down New Zealand? Is it something that we need to address, and is it something systemic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u002279a29df02e0b4dffbe5a95ddcfde1d8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279a29df02e0b4dffbe5a95ddcfde1d8a\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I want to talk again about the title of the bill because I had raised only one of my suggestions when the bell so rudely interrupted me earlier. The second suggested title that I have for the bill is \u201CTelecommunications (Government Waste) Amendment Bill\u201D, because that would label clearly the problem that we have here, where the Government is refusing\u2014refusing\u2014to evaluate this proposal before it takes any further steps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EBefore I elaborate on this, I want to touch just quickly on a point raised by my colleague Mr Faafoi in his contribution. He talked about how things are now as clear as mud, and whether this is a tax or a levy. The Minister says that it is a levy; the industry says that it is a tax. Mr Cunliffe has raised the point that the OECD would probably define it as a tax, and we have numerous other references, including from the Minister\u2019s own department, referring to it as \u201Csomething in the nature of a tax\u201D. The Minister now claims that she is the only one who is right on that point and that everybody else is wrong, and perhaps it is as clear as mud, in the same way that the Prime Minister\u2019s promise not to raise GST was as clear as mud\u2014and the promises made by the Government that it would raise wages by $7,000 by 2026 were made in the same vein. All these promises were meant one way, and now the Government is trying to say that they mean something else. It said that it would get to surplus. That was the central promise of this Government\u2019s last election campaign. Well, we know now that that has not been achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIt is not clear whether this is a bill about a development levy. It is a development tax, as I have suggested in my previous contribution, but it might well be labelled \u201Cwaste\u201D. If something is not measured\u2014and this is a simple precept\u2014we do not know whether it is actually being spent well or not. We have suggested alternative ways that it could be funded, and we have asked the Minister to explain\u2014or others in this Committee have\u2014why it will not be evaluated properly. Questions that hint at conflicts of interest have been raised. I am not aware myself of the detail of that, but I think the Minister ought to be on her feet explaining why she is not going to evaluate it. Even if she is going to press ahead without public scrutiny of this bill, I think it would be reasonable for her to explain to us why no evaluation is happening. This is why it could well be called the \u201CGovernment Waste Bill\u201D, because the facts that we have, insofar as we have them, are that $60 million has been spent on this particular initiative so far, to get only 8,500 connections. That is the best estimate available. That is $7,000 per connection, and the quality out there is not great. We have heard that from several MPs who have had people coming into their offices to complain. I have certainly had them. I took the petition to the select committee, which has seen a change in behaviour as a result, and I know that my colleague Clare Curran has done the same, and I encourage others to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a wasteful bill. If we are not going to evaluate whether the programme works\u2014and all of the evidence points to it not working and not being an effective use of taxpayers\u2019 money\u2014then there is an arrogance in not evaluating it, in not being able to explain, and in not being able to actually front up and say \u201CThis is why we think it is worth investing again.\u201D I do not think the public at home are going to say that $7,000 per connection is good value for money. There are plenty of other ways that we could get broadband there more quickly. I think the overseas experience would be that it could get there more cheaply and be of a better quality. This is a Government that needs to do some explaining. So I am hoping that the Minister will soon get to her feet and explain to us why it is that what appears to be incredibly wasteful spending is not being evaluated. We all want better broadband\u2014we all want better broadband. All of us would like to have happy people coming through our electorate offices saying: \u201CLook, I\u2019ve just started a new business and I\u2019ve got this great fast broadband, and now I\u2019m able to participate in the world.\u201D The reality is that that is not the experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis Government has been in Government for nearly 7 years now. We heard Melissa Lee earlier complaining about the poor quality of broadband. The irony of Government members also complaining about the poor quality of broadband despite their having been here for quite some time seems to be lost on them. So I suggest that in addition to the title \u201CTelecommunications Tax Amendment Bill\u201D being considered, the alternative title \u201CTelecommunications (Government Waste Amendment) Bill\u201D also be considered. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7f7f1ecad8a406aa05712425e54a126\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7f7f1ecad8a406aa05712425e54a126\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: I will give a call shortly, but by way of being helpful and in no way being patronising, I will note that the debate is becoming somewhat repetitious at the moment. The discussion around this clause 1, \u201CTitle\u201D, is the widest ranging part of this debate. After that we move on to clause 2, \u201CCommencement\u201D, clause 3, \u201CPrincipal Act\u201D, the amendments that are around clause 3A, and then clause 4, \u201CSchedule 3B amended\u201D. These will be very narrow debates, and very little leeway will be given in so far as members must address those parts. Members seeking clarification on this could look at Speaker\u2019s ruling 114/7. I just draw to the attention of members that now they should be looking to draw on new, novel, and innovative avenues of inquiry or debate or discussion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00225f0cfcf011984bd890cf1530e9c57d72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f0cfcf011984bd890cf1530e9c57d72\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I will definitely try to be original; thank you very much, Mr Chairperson. First of all, can I thank Dr Clark. I am actually enjoying myself. This is a debate, but I find it very interesting that I am doing the Government\u2019s work. Not a single member of the Government, apart from the Minister, has stood up to actually address the issues that the Labour Party has raised. So first of all\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad153ba641434a5aa505ddab56e0e60d\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re doing a great job, Tracey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227db47871f4e84c74a7fbfcbd4fe61b21\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Ms Collins. First of all, New Zealand First would agree absolutely with the comments around evaluation that Dr Clark raised. Absolutely we would agree. It has been raised also by the Green Party, and previously in conversations we have said that the Commerce Committee would be a perfect organisation through which to do an evaluation. But that is no reason to stop this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWe can accept that urgency may not be the best thing, but even if we\u2014[Interruption] I think I am in a parallel universe. I am standing here arguing against the Labour Party about a levy on a corporation. Can I just talk about a press release from Friday\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0593f1098a3435fa97640a12ae2a7a2\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The member\u2019s address raises an interesting point. If the New Zealand First Party were in the position where on the basis of its concerns about the lack of an evaluation it wished to change its vote, is there any possibility of correcting the record on clause 1, which has already passed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a4085388b3548fab8c0c6a066cbb9ca\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not an issue and it is not a point of order. Continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a3300d1a1c848ef93439609f9e8abde\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, New Zealand First is quite clear in its own mind how it votes and when it votes. It does not require the Labour Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213d46b065ea443a0b590435671712579\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: That is a matter for debate, not a point of order. The member may continue with her call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b9c0ec9901649098678eb9205d48331\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. And the evening goes on, so there you go. Can I just draw the Committee\u2019s attention to a press release on Friday, 22 August 2014, headed \u201CSpark annual profit almost doubles \u2026 grows mobile revenue\u201D. It said: \u201CSpark New Zealand \u2026 the rebranded Telecom, almost doubled annual profit on the sale of its Australian AAPT unit, and grew mobile revenue as it repositions itself away from relying on dwindling landline use.\u201D It made that record profit with this levy in place\u2014with this levy in place. And that net profit rose to $460 million, or 25c per share\u201425c per share\u2014but 22c only per month is what it needs to recover on mobile calls to actually pay this levy. Yet it made 25c per share in the 12 months ended 30 June from $238 a year earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI am arguing this against the Labour Party. I find that unfathomable. I would not have believed, when I came down to the Chamber today, that I would be standing here doing the Government\u2019s job\u2014doing the Government\u2019s job on a Government bill. Why on earth am I doing your job for you? Get up and argue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI agree that there needs to be an evaluation. Surely, because the National members are not rising to their feet, National must agree also, because the Green Party and New Zealand First appear to be doing their job for the consumers of New Zealand and those in rural New Zealand who want broadband. The other thing that Dr Clark said, if I can just address it, was that the alternative way to pay for this infrastructure, which, as the Minister quite rightly pointed out, is used by every one of the 22 telecommunication companies\u2014upon which a percentage of their profit is paid into to create this infrastructure. [Interruption] For goodness\u2019 sake, Mr Jami-Lee Ross, please take a call and stand up for your own Government bill. This is just so unusual that I am having difficulty dealing with it. One of the things missed out that Dr David Clark said was that the Future Investment Fund could pay for this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d58e38be922b4bbdbc51b907f16f10dd\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member change her vote if the National Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292281b5d98104324803dcce08e891349\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: No, we will not change our vote, Mr Cunliffe, because you have not provided enough evidence to suggest that this is the way that we should go. The Future Investment Fund\u2014New Zealand First quite clearly said that we believe that 49 percent of our State-owned assets should not be sold. How on earth now could we vote for the use of those profits, when we said that they should be reinvested in income-earning assets that provide an essential service such as power, which has been sold off? How on earth would New Zealand First then actually stand by and support some organisation that said we should take it out of the income of the Future Investment Fund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EBut here is the irony that blows my mind. Whether the consumer is currently paying 22c per month for a mobile call or 80c for any other service because the levy is currently in place, or whether, as the Labour Party suggests, we actually take that money out of another taxpayer bucket, they are the same people\u2014they are the same people. The consumers of New Zealand who have got the mobile phone in their hand, and I suggest if Spark puts up its prices they change their provider\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u002269e146355f334d3685c7800a34ca94d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269e146355f334d3685c7800a34ca94d9\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f819f3dffa34491a8484f3c20fbe3c3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f819f3dffa34491a8484f3c20fbe3c3b\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E It is my great pleasure to take a call on the widest-ranging part of this debate, as you identified, Mr Chairman, on this Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill. This is a seemingly very short piece of legislation that we have before us of just four parts. But I, as a number of my colleagues have done before me, want to talk about the title of this bill in terms of the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill. One of the objections that has been raised from Labour members who have spoken previously is that this is an increase in tax from a Government that purported that there would be no new taxes. What do we have here? A new tax and an increased tax. It is dressed up. We are trying to call it a levy, trying to soften the blow, but let us call this what it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe have had the industry come out today, and one of the questions we have had is why there is the need to use this process of urgency to go through this. I think that that is a real question that does need to be addressed. Why is it that we are not having the chance for the industry and the concerned players\u2014the people who need this broadband in their small businesses and the rural families and families in our regions that need this access to broadband\u2014to be able to come and speak to the people making the decision and to have that chance to have submissions at the select committee stage? Urgency should be used for real reasons, not just as a way to ram through some legislation that you think might be a little bit unpopular, and where you do not want to give people a chance to front up and have some objection to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut this legislation is absolutely on message for the Government. Its Budget was one that was long on broken promises. It was from a Government that is short on vision. It is a Government that all round tried to scurry around the fact and get as close to reaching the non-surplus as it could\u2014the non-surplus, of course, otherwise known as a deficit. What we do have here is a piece of legislation and a title that is quite misleading for people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOf course, it goes without saying that Labour supports more people getting connected to broadband. We know that this is absolutely imperative for the future of New Zealand. We know it is important for education. We know that it is important for our businesses. We know that it is important for our industries. We know that it is absolutely vital. We have consistently focused on getting rural and regional New Zealand a plan for community-based fibre schemes. This is something that has occupied our minds and our actions when we have been in Government. However, the existing rural broadband scheme has been a flop. It is a rural broadband scam. It is not working. Not only is it a waste of Government money but it lacks accountability and transparency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOnce again, what we are seeing here is economic mismanagement from a panicking and desperate Government. We can hear the shrieks from the other side that are serving only to underscore this point, from the reaction that comment got over there. It is another example of how it is that National is neglecting the regions and treating them like the poor country cousins. Rural customers are going to end up paying more for this, far from less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f00f250de7e4870a5463c2b330154a8\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s shocking in Waitaki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022024af98ec54d40d8b6e6c2d801481f95\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: It is shocking in Waitaki\u2014that is what I am told by my colleague Dr David Clark. He wants to know why the member Jacqui Dean, barracking from the other side, does not stand up for those constituents in Waitaki who are experiencing shocking internet and broadband connections, and why it is that instead of taking a call and explaining to her constituents why she will not back them and stand up for them, she chooses just to interject in an incomprehensible way from the benches opposite. So, get on your feet, take a call, and stand up for the people who elected you to represent them. It would be great to hear from you. We are all holding our breath and would like nothing better at this time on a Friday night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe Rural Broadband Initiative was supposed to deliver speeds of 5 megabits to 86 percent of rural households and businesses. At the time Steven Joyce said that this was meant to mean 252,000 customers in rural New Zealand getting access to high-speed broadband comparable to urban levels of services and prices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u00229cb9b84861994290a493f5473e2134ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cb9b84861994290a493f5473e2134ed\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I was not sure whether I was going to take a call on this when I came down here, but listening to the debate, I feel that I cannot not take one. I do want to talk about the title. I think the two words that really matter most are \u201Ctelecommunications\u201D and \u201Cdevelopment\u201D. Frankly, I do not care whether we call this thing a levy or a tax or a koha or a Danegeld or anything else; what matters is that it is money that gets paid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI agree absolutely with Minister Adams that it should be the telecommunications companies that pay it, because it is actually the companies who, since privatisation, are responsible for the fact that we have not had development in telecommunications in the rural areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI am going to put this from a slightly different perspective from some of my Labour colleagues because I actually live in the boondocks. I live in a cellphone blackspot\u2014it is called rural New Zealand. There is no coverage. I have got maybe one little sweet spot up by my garage where I can get two bars if I hold the phone up there\u2014sometimes, on a good day, if it is not raining. But in the house? No chance. This is 40 minutes north of downtown Christchurch, so it is hardly the middle of nowhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWe moved up to Canterbury about 6 years from Central Otago. The previous 2 years we had been enjoying blisteringly fast broadband speeds of about 2 megabits, and that was because they had upgraded the cabinet round the corner, finally, but prior to that we were on dial-up. If you wanted to look at a picture, you just sort of set the thing going and then went to bed, and in the morning your 14 kilobyte photo had come through\u2014if you were lucky, if the thing had not logged off through the night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EGoing back a little bit further in time, when I was growing up I remember the telephone was a black Bakelite thing on the wall with a crank handle. To use it you would pick up the handle, crank the handle, and the nice lady on the other end would say \u201CNumber please?\u201D, and so you would say whom you wanted to talk to. Being a little boy at the time, of course the nice lady in the phone exchange was in the post office and she could see the town. She knew everybody, and she knew whom I was probably talking about. She would say \u201CDo you want to talk to Paul?\u201D and I would say yes, and she would say \u201CI\u2019ve just seen him go out.\u201D And that was the way that rural New Zealand was. Actually, in broadband terms most of rural New Zealand is still like that. Most of rural New Zealand would just like to have broadband. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ESo in 2009 we moved to Canterbury and Telecom said yes, that was fine, it could hook us up to broadband, it had checked our lines and they were all fine. It sent us a nice free modem, and that was all going to be good. And then Telecom came to hook it up, and said actually, no, our line could not take it. We asked when that was going to happen, and Telecom said it was looking at upgrading the exchange\u2014maybe in about 2012. We asked what we were going to do until then. A couple of the Labour members mentioned companies like Farmside. In those days, that was pretty much one of the only alternatives. It was doing mostly satellite internet in those days. So we looked into that and we looked into radio, and ended up getting a radio link with a company out of Christchurch. We were on the outer edge of where it could reach. It was slightly cheaper and slightly faster than the terribly slow speeds that that satellite was offering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI think it is a bit rich that we have got members\u2014and they are mostly Labour members\u2014who are standing up here talking about rural this and rural that and provincial this and provincial the other thing. They talk about constituents coming to see them and they relate these second-hand stories about the services that are provided in the provinces, kind of holding it out at arms\u2019 length as if it is some sort of distasteful thing\u2014\u201CWe\u2019ve heard about the countryside. We see documentaries about it on television from time to time. Every now and then an angry person from rural New Zealand will phone us up, and sometimes a scruffy one will come into our office and sing us a tale of woe about how terrible things are. Of course, we sit there and smile sweetly and nod and take these concerns on board\u2014at a distant academic level, because, actually, we do not live that.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWell, people like me do live it. I understand that maybe the upper levels of the National Party have lost touch with the heartland but there are plenty of members on the Government side who still live in the rural areas, who still know. They themselves experience these things. And so I agree with my colleague Tracey Martin that it is a bit odd that here we are, doing the Government\u2019s work for it, but in actual fact, as far as this is concerned we agree with them entirely. I heard Ms Lee talking earlier about the plight of some travel writers, I think they were, who were having difficulty out in the cellphone blackspot that is called rural New Zealand, trying to get a link to their Twitter. These things do not mean anything to urbanites who understand them at an academic level. Of course, here we have got connectivity. We have got cellphones that have got lots of bars on them all the time. We can go up to our offices and we have got high-speed broadband. Members can go back to the hotel and they have got broadband. They can go back to their apartment and they have got broadband. They can go home to their urban electorate offices and they have got all of these things. And so they hear this sort of whining noise from people\u2014\u201COh, the poor people of the country have not got fast broadband.\u201D\u2014and talk in highfalutin conceptual ideas about having another review or perhaps forming a committee and looking at things again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EPeople in the provinces have actually had a gutsful of that. It is the provinces that earn this country\u2019s living. It is the provinces that create the wealth. It is the provinces who are always on the rough end of the stick. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u002291b112a6ddbd46b2b437abf90d4f8966\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291b112a6ddbd46b2b437abf90d4f8966\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002251345b454b574d2594f55ddf944b9160\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59, New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 45\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000910\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 75, Noes 46.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022422510bb8ea94fd5af5584ad1d40d281\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 88\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 32\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000911\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 89, Noes 32.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00224cb9e6a2971b4b1caf854cf239a65050\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cb9e6a2971b4b1caf854cf239a65050\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: I will just remind members that votes are to be heard in silence. We have had previous precedent today when that was breached, and there were ramifications. We will hear votes in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227585331a8bd64c82bc7aee1b47cfa8ad\u0022\u003EClause 2  Commencement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3d23be23f33492e81b2242bf22bdf83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3d23be23f33492e81b2242bf22bdf83\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to take a call on clause 2, which is the commencement clause of the bill, the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill. It is a nice, simple, straightforward clause, which reads: \u201CThe Act comes into force on the day\u201D\u2014on the date after\u2014\u201Con the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u201D That seems relatively straightforward. What does that actually mean?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220c499e054814b49970510096ba74491\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Can you say that again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216f2e2e2c6b547ccb47c3abad48f4589\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I will read it out again because I botched it up completely the first time. \u201CThe Act comes into force on the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u201D That might seem relatively straightforward. Typically, the Royal assent would be given within a few days of the bill being passed through all of its stages by Parliament, with the Governor-General signing it, effectively, on behalf of the Sovereign, the Queen of New Zealand, who is, of course, Queen Elizabeth. However, there is no guarantee that the Royal assent will, in fact, be given. All New Zealanders work under the assumption that if a law is passed by Parliament, it will automatically become the law of New Zealand. That is not correct. In fact, we have the royal prerogative, which does allow the Sovereign of the country not to provide Royal assent. That has not happened in New Zealand but it has happened in other jurisdictions that have a similar procedure. If I look at the Parliament of Belgium, for example\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225921a3d820d44db4bb4563998cd05558\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254605aa9d4564271b1aaa9a0f79b1981\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we will look at the Parliament of Belgium, where the issue of the Royal assent came up when a law was passed by Parliament\u2014and I think, from memory, it was around gay marriage\u2014that the King of Belgium objected to and, therefore, refused to provide the Royal assent. Therefore, the will of the people, through the democratically elected Parliament, was thwarted\u2014or perhaps it was not. What the Parliament of Belgium did\u2014and this is quite a novel approach\u2014was, effectively, to remove the king from office for a day. The law was signed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c25610820c18451fb0919a529fac1830\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: I would not want the member to feel that I was being pedantic in any way, but it has been drawn to my attention that speculating as to what the Sovereign may do at any one time is not only a long way away from the ambit of this particular clause but also may draw disrespect towards the Sovereign. The member may wish to check Standing Order 118 in relation to that. I would ask him to stick fairly close to, as he has conceded, the very narrow nature of clause 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f8f265d1242430391d68861d418dd59\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, and I mean no disrespect to the Sovereign whatsoever, and I wish to make that abundantly clear. However, the Royal assent is granted by the Sovereign of New Zealand, who is Queen Elizabeth II, or by the Governor-General. The point that I am making is merely that there is no guarantee that the Royal assent would be given by the Sovereign, and I am not speculating in any way as to whether the Sovereign may or may not give the Royal assent. I am simply pointing out that there is precedent of the Royal assent not being given in other jurisdictions that follow the same legal process as us. In the case of Belgium, what that resulted in was the Parliament, effectively, taking the sovereignty for itself for a short period of time, which allowed the Prime Minister to sign the law, and then, of course, the Sovereign was reinstated. That was the precedent in Belgium.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe are very fortunate that in New Zealand the Royal assent, as far as I know, has never been refused under the royal prerogative. And that, of course, is a very good thing. The principle that we have in New Zealand is that the Parliament, the will of the people through the majority in the Parliament\u2014even when the minority is right and the majority is wrong\u2014will be given the Royal assent, and that will become the law. So this bill will, effectively, come into force at some point within the next few days, probably. I think early next week would be the next opportunity for the Governor-General to sign the law, for it to come into force. Of course, we are debating this bill on 21 May, despite the fact that the rest of the country has moved on and it is now 22 May. The Hansard records of the House, if this bill is passed\u2014and by the looks of the votes, it is going to be passed by a reasonably comfortable margin\u2014will show that this was passed on 21 May. One would assume that the Royal assent might be given on 22 May.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThat will not be the case, because, in fact, by the time the bill makes its way to the Governor-General for the Royal assent, it will be at least 23 May. I would think that it is not going to go to the Governor-General today\u2014\u201Cnormal people time\u201D\u2014which is 22 May. It is 21 May according to the House. It will be 23 May tomorrow by the time the bill is prepared and ready, but that, of course, is a weekend. So Monday, 25 May would probably be the first opportunity for this law to actually come into force. This is quite correct. This is when the Royal assent will take place. The earliest opportunity for this bill to come into force would be Monday, when you work through the logical sequence of the dates that we are talking about. The reality would be that if the Governor-General were unavailable to sign the legislation for some reason, it may not come into effect on Monday, and it may be given the Royal assent further down the track. There are, of course, other provisions that mean that if the Governor-General is not available on Monday, the legislation could be signed by someone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022354ff40afc9e4bcfac792615c3525658\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022354ff40afc9e4bcfac792615c3525658\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am ecstatic to rise to speak on clause 2, particularly the part of clause 2 that my learned colleague Chris Hipkins from the Labour Party has started us down. I think he has raised a very, very good point about the fact that nobody can assume that any legislation will be passed. Obviously, one of the reasons for the beginning date of this legislation is that one of the things the Government wants to do, I am sure, and one of the things that parties supporting this bill want to do is make sure that those telecommunications companies have the widest possible opportunity to amend their budgets, to make sure that the levy that is in place\u2014the levy they know has been in place since 2011\u2014is going to continue until 2020. We want to give them a strong lead-in on that, because nobody wants to actually negatively affect those telecommunications companies in the way they do their business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EAlso, the Minister made the point that as soon as we know where the money is going to come from, there are other conversations that can take place around the provision and who is going to do this, that, and the other. But, actually, I want to go back to the point that Mr Hipkins raised, and that is around Royal assent. I think it is a very, very valid point. For me, personally, it is one of the reasons why New Zealand should never become a republic. I think it is one of the strongest reasons why New Zealand should never become a republic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ELet us imagine that this piece of legislation, with the start date that is required, is not in the best interests of the country. Let us just imagine that for a moment. With a start date such as this, where it requires Royal assent to begin, then the Governor-General can actually refuse to sign it. Until the Governor-General signs it on behalf of Queen Elizabeth\u2014a very fine woman, whom I personally admire\u2014it does not become the law of the land. Therefore, if this was not a bill that was in the best interests of the country\u2014and New Zealand First is, obviously, supporting it; we believe it is\u2014that one little clause around the start date, around Royal assent, would actually save the country. It is the last backstop to bad decisions by this House. I am not sure that that is where Mr Hipkins wanted to go with his contribution, but from a New Zealand First perspective, or from my perspective specifically, this particular clause is incredibly important. That piece around Royal assent keeps us safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EOne of the things we must never get rid of with regard to start dates and pieces of legislation is the Royal assent. That is our last protection for bad legislation. The Governor-General can decide to sign any legislation. People might decide to do away with the Governor-General but until he signs a bill, it cannot be put in place. I agree with Mr Hipkins that that is a very, very important clause. More members of the Government should stand and take calls on that particular clause because I believe that they obviously would support it. They would support the start date being on Monday possibly, or Tuesday if the Governor-General has appointments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bad33ac80d14491d872efb430966c4e6\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: We could still be sitting on Monday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b335ea615e04d98bc49e689e19d25c0\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well, there you go. You see, it may not get out of the House by then. But the moment it gets to the Governor-General he will make a decision as to whether it is in the best interests of this country. We all know what a fine man the Governor-General is. All of us trust the Governor-General and his judgment. Therefore, that clause, again, is a very, very important clause inside this piece of legislation. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00227f95cd507e85466ea530bdb4f3204dd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f95cd507e85466ea530bdb4f3204dd1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: I will give a member the call. I would just like to make the point that we have well traversed the Royal assent, even in various European countries, by the Governor-General as well as the Queen and the King of Belgium. So I look forward to the next speaker cutting a fresh track on this very narrow clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022366c97be48e74dc7b025db6c45ef2868\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022366c97be48e74dc7b025db6c45ef2868\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E There is a strong precedent in this House not to bring the Chair into the debate. I am going to depart from that on this occasion only and very gently to note that you are a member, in another capacity, of the esteemed Regulations Review Committee, on which, in fact, we serve together. The Chair will have almost, I am sure, uppermost in his mind at this time that the Regulations Review Committee has a tradition of objecting to legislation where the date of Royal assent or the date on which a bill comes into force is not specified in the primary legislation. That is seen as very, very poor drafting practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhat normally happens, as you know, is that the Regulations Review Committee will write to the substantive subject select committee\u2014in this case, it would be the Commerce Committee\u2014asking them to invite the Minister to reconsider whether in fact there should be a fixed date put into the equivalent clause, the commencement clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThat is where we run into problems with this bill. I guess it is yet another little proof of why we should not be here on a Friday night trying to ram a bill like this through all stages, because there is no substantive select committee that the Regulations Review Committee can write to to object about the fact that it does not have a proper commencement clause in it. This is an open-ended commencement clause. It is poor drafting practice. It would be pulled up by the Regulations Review Committee, and the Commerce Committee would have to deal with it. The Commerce Committee would probably then write to the Minister. There would be an amendment made in the usual way, and there would usually be either a fixed date for commencement or a deadline for commencement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThat is particularly odious and improper when it comes to a tax bill. This is a tax bill. This raises taxes. Apart from the fact it is breaking an election promise, it is a serious matter. There should be no taxation without representation. Representation includes the full select committee process. So here is a tax bill being rammed through Parliament without a select committee process and with an improper commencement clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe Regulations Review Committee would take this very, very seriously. It would write to the subject select committee, the Commerce Committee, and it would ask for an amendment or consideration of an amendment on that point. It is not too late for the Minister, given that the Minister has seen fit not to send this to a substantive committee, to respond to that point and to assure the Committee in some way as to the timing of the commencement. It may be that the Government may see fit, even in the time that is still available, to amend this commencement clause by way of Supplementary Order Paper, to give at the very least a back-end assurance to the public that there will be some certainty about this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Mr Hipkins, Dr Hipkins, has said, there is a very important precedent, which we are not allowed now to refer to, from a small European country where Royal assent was withheld on a matter of almost equal import as this unjustified, unwarranted, and improperly drafted piece of tax law that we are ramming through the House in the dead of a Friday night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI invite you, Mr Chairman, to ask the Minister to take a call, and for you to at least share with the Committee your experiences on the Regulations Review Committee where you know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a8a48ffb6a842249f780edfdf6419cd\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Please be seated. The member knows that it is wrong for him to draw the Chairman into the debate. I certainly will not be jumping when he yanks my chain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df4d2d9181654c5a850a2b13495aa090\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for the admonition, Mr Chairman. It must be getting late, but since you put it in those terms, your chain shall be completely unyanked by the Labour Party. But it is not too late for the Government to yank this bill from the House, because this bill is improperly drafted. This is an improper commencement clause for a tax bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWe should not be pushing tax bills through in the dead of night. We should not be doing it when the Government said that there were not going to be any more tax laws, no new taxes\u2014well, here we have got one. It was brought in through urgency without a select committee process, flying in the face of established constitutional convention. This is legislation for cowboys, and the Labour Party wants none of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u002221ffbea08ba44f5d9721ead6081e2238\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221ffbea08ba44f5d9721ead6081e2238\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00226db0cfeabb4649c88a2cdad6bc1efa71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226db0cfeabb4649c88a2cdad6bc1efa71\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to take a call on this commencement clause. Mr Chairman, with the greatest respect I have listened to your calls to move on beyond the Royal assent, but it has become somewhat of a debating point in this Committee tonight around the circumstances in which the Governor-General, on behalf of the Sovereign, can actually\u2014could they, or when could they\u2014refuse the Royal assent. When such questions come up, being the hard-working parliamentarian that I am, I like to go to the source and consult McGee to see what the circumstances are under which this could occur. I think it is important that we clear up this debating point in this Committee tonight and actually see what the facts are around this. There is no longer explicit statutory recognition of a power to withhold the Royal assent, as there was in a previous law. This was admitted in 1986 as being unnecessary. It was felt that to re-enact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d35a11d97f54f079c1d4e5116e1e078\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just for clarification for the member, speculation as to the inclination of the Sovereign or the Governor-General is not relevant to the detail of this clause. I previously warned all members that we have pretty much covered this ground. So I ask the member to explore new territory, take us to new depths, in this clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccb1be935ce34c149b87951590e509d3\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Just speaking to the point of order, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a36ccb5d08f47f6a650c741fa863046\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Not challenging it in any way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d723209018b499b8f987bc950e2e168\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am seeking your clarification, Mr Chair, and asking for some guidance from you in that there has been a debating point established around whether or not\u2014I am not questioning the reputation of the Sovereign\u2014they could do that. I am just asking your guidance how it is that a member can address what has become a debating point in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6428e98d6b74905a76af4e636a934a8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, fortunately for me as Chair I am the sole judge of the scope of this debate and I have judged that we have traversed that. I believe that it has reached the full extent of the scope in relation to the Royal assent in this matter. We are looking for new territory. If the member has not got any new territory to explore, there are plenty of other people seeking the call\u2014Mr Faafoi, for one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c0317dcc2354e64999526e059115307\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chairman. I appreciate your guidance in this matter. It is always useful to have your wisdom shared with us. We always appreciate it greatly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of the commencement date on which this bill receives the Royal assent and when it comes in to date, my colleague Chris Hipkins has already talked about when that might be. I think there are some serious matters that remain unresolved around when it is and how it is that we treat taxation law in regard to the Royal assent, because it goes back to some of the material that was covered. There is a clear intersection here between clauses 1 and 2, around what it is that this bill, the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill is called. This is called a development levy bill, but in reality this is a taxation bill, and as my colleague the Hon David Cunliffe has pointed out in his previous contribution, actually, there are some very serious questions that we need to ask around taxation law and how that may be treated. Mr Cunliffe raised a very serious point about the Regulations Review Committee and how this would be treated if it were going through a regular select committee process, and how it is that this might have to be treated differently. I think it is important when we are using this mechanism of urgency that we are not circumventing what are some very important conventions in this House, and that is that people in this country need to have the peace of mind that they do not have a Government or a Parliament, indeed, that will pass legislation that unfairly taxes, that there are important checks on that, and one of those is that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab1715deecd14961ace95245d5446c6a\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Shouldn\u2019t be doing it under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2be94bd4e2448cf800aa6b44bd6e38c\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014we should not be doing it under urgency and, if we are, we should at least be putting some of the normal procedures around it. I know whether or not the Sovereign would give this piece of legislation Royal assent has been ruled out. Royal assent is not something we would ever consider talking about again, but I am sure other members of our team here in Labour will have very serious questions that they will need to raise around this very important clause 2 of this legislation, being the commencement clause. We should always ask the serious questions of any bill that we as legislators are asked to pass. We should never just think of ourselves as rubber-stampers. We should examine legislation clause by clause, and we should always be asking questions, especially when we are not going through the proper processes that we would expect of a select committee of this House. So there are important questions to be answered and I invite the Minister in the chair to take a call and to address some of these very, very important questions that members have put to him because this is what we deserve as a Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6f7d658bfa64381982a07e39fc5c3be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6f7d658bfa64381982a07e39fc5c3be\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair, for the opportunity to speak to clause 2. As your predecessor in the Chair has mentioned, it is a very narrow clause. I do not intend to go into some of the issues in terms of the Royal assent, but I do want to take this opportunity to talk about the commencement date. We do not know when this bill will come into force\u2014it may be Monday, it may be Tuesday\u2014but when it does come into effect, it will set in train a chain of events to allow the Government to negotiate with other telecommunications companies not only to allow the tax that is going to be collected under this piece of legislation to be collected but also, because we know that this bill will become an Act, to allow the second stage of the Rural Broadband Initiative to get under way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAlthough we on this side of the Chamber have noted some concerns about that, I did want to use that in terms of the chain of events that starts when this bill becomes law to take issue with something that New Zealand First member Richard Prosser said earlier on. He suggested that members on this side of the Chamber\u2014or from this party, more or less\u2014were using constituents who were coming to us into our electorate offices by dangling them out there to use as examples of people we do not really care about. I would say to Mr Prosser that that could not be further from the truth. There are a number of electorate MPs on this side of the Chamber who have had a number of constituents come to them and ask them why their rural broadband is so rubbish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EOne example of that is someone in my electorate. Like Chris Hipkins, I have got a mixed electorate. I have got the rural areas of Pukerua Bay and some rural areas in P\u0101uatahanui, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229cb79d5ebcc40c7ad1f0b7f2f24949c\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Pukerua Bay is not rural. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9eb7e74cf8f41fd97c8ba898baa5ee2\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there is a farm there. You want to come and have a look at it. It has got livestock and everything\u2014come and have a look. One person who lives in those rural areas came to me and said: \u201CLook, my internet connection is not what I want it to be because of where I am located.\u201D, and he was in a rural area. So I looked at that case. I took it to Vodafone and said: \u201CLook, this chap lives here.\u201D, and I am just about to get to my point, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022447c1da3580e4d7cb5b8d637f6542dc2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member had better, because if he does not, his call will be terminated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202c94f59a378453b8be92bd8ac69dbd9\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: The outcome of that conversation was: \u201CYou\u2019re going to have to wait for the second phase of the Rural Broadband Initiative.\u201D because he was not going to be in phase one. It is absolutely crucial for him to now get his broadband up to the speed that he wants. Is the commencement date of this piece of legislation\u2014I will give him that. We want Rural Broadband Initiative 2 to start rolling out, and this piece of legislation will commence probably on Monday, or it might be Tuesday, if we are still here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere are a lot of people who, I guess, are waiting for this piece of legislation to go through, but our point of issue with it commencing on that date is that we do not think we have had a justification or a good analysis of the first piece of legislation, which saw Rural Broadband Initiative 1 come in. So before this piece of legislation comes into force, or commences, we do not want this piece of legislation to go through without the right scrutiny of the first tranche of Rural Broadband Initiative 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EDo not commence this bill to spend $150 million without looking at the first piece of legislation, which came in to bring in Rural Broadband Initiative 1, which was worth $300 million. We are not sure whether it has been effective, so we do not think this piece of legislation should go through, which is why we are not supporting it. Why? This piece of legislation is to expend $150 million. We on this side of the Chamber think that that is a lot of money. The Government does not seem to care about the accountability of expending $150 million. We would like a closer look at how effective that first $300 million has been before we go anywhere near letting this piece of legislation go through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ETo Mr Prosser, I would say please do not take the examples we have used in this debate as something you can simply throw away. They are people whom we have cared for. It is our duty as electorate MPs to make sure that the Rural Broadband Initiative is as best as it can be. When this legislation commences, hopefully that person\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c414beb6b31640b792e6b5be6b7b038f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c414beb6b31640b792e6b5be6b7b038f\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00224595d89f09d248979874eafe2d7b237b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224595d89f09d248979874eafe2d7b237b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I am not going to take it now, but I am going to issue a warning and it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022289c851031214a56abb19330b592124d\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on, Trevor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d0a37817f354bdf92b627ee952c9fe3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Who was that? Can I remind the member of what happened to Mr Mark earlier in the day, for interjecting in a similar circumstance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275739e0737e943a1b20621ed08f42989\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What happened?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3b503cc098740579b9a583c027a83f4\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Mark had a short holiday from the Chamber. So I now give the Committee a general warning about interjecting when the Chairman\u2014[Interruption] Yes, Mr Williamson will be required to stay, if that is the case. The point that I am going to make to Mr Faafoi is that this is a bill about collecting money and not spending it, so any further arguments about when the money is spent will not be tolerated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u002211c2ef85def24b1c853a0722e348fa2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211c2ef85def24b1c853a0722e348fa2b\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E I am not quite sure of how much time I have got left to take. I might have another 5 minutes, but I am not sure. I am sure the bell will tell me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWe do not believe that this piece of legislation should continue, and I take your point that this piece of legislation is about the collection of a levy or a tax, as we have argued on this side of the Chamber. We do, though, think that it should have gone through the proper process before it did start collecting this tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225138a394ba414d7dbda0e81116547283\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am just seeking your assistance. I did rise and request a closure motion, which I do not know that you addressed, but you then called upon a member to make a speech who had not actually asked for the call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7da41ab1aab4dcabb7274ba65fe6414\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually he had, and he asked at the same time as the member asked for the closure. He called at that point and that is the right time to call. Actually, by going to another member, it is probably a pretty clear indication of my decision on the closure motion. If the member wants me to sort of underline it, I had declined it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2eef79075e342e6b1375617a106e530\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Chair, for that clarification of your ruling. I do not want to unnecessarily take up the time of the Committee, but there is\u2014from what the Minister said in one of her Committee stage contributions\u2014a fair bit of negotiation that has to happen from the commencement date up until about June 2016, when I understand that the Rural Broadband Initiative 2 comes into force. I think, from a couple of the press releases we have seen, that there is a fair bit of negotiation that needs to be done between the telecommunications companies and the Government before this piece of legislation can actually become effective and until those taxes can start being collected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWe have heard a submission via a press release from the Telecommunications Carriers Forum. From the commencement of this piece of legislation until\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002224164f12da024b189c29e339bd15abaa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224164f12da024b189c29e339bd15abaa\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, I have now decided that the member has struggled for long enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022691f04caeb844d6d83403c87255e5450\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 88\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 32\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000974\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 89, Noes 32.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0b5aadbc6794bfe96b692427c21b31a\u0022\u003EClause 3  Principal Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022881dba4601b344ec95a84761fc6f6b7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022881dba4601b344ec95a84761fc6f6b7a\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Clause 3, entitled \u201CPrincipal Act\u201D, amends the Telecommunications Act 2001, which is the principal Act. This amendment is an amendment to an amendment of the Telecommunications Act 2001 that was passed in 2011. The 2011 amendment was about changes to the telecommunications development levy, where the imposition of a levy was made on telecommunications provided\u2014[Interruption] I am very happy for you to take a call, Mr Williamson. That would be quite useful. I am sure it would further the debate. The levy was imposed on telecommunications providers who received a minimum of $10 million gross revenue annually, and that levy was established to contribute to the cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe issues, which I think have been canvassed well tonight, were around non-urban telecommunications infrastructure\u2014that is, infrastructure in rural New Zealand. I do not think that anyone has argued about that or has a differing view about the purpose of the telecommunications development levy\u2014namely, that we need more infrastructure for rural broadband. We think that is a good thing, but the matter at hand is about this amendment bill tonight, which is going through all its stages under urgency. This clause, \u201CPrincipal Act\u201D, is about where it came from, what it is actually intended to do, and the way in which it is being done. That is the issue that the Labour Party has with this piece of legislation before the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI am hoping that the other parties in the Chamber tonight have had enough of the debate canvassed for them to be clear about the strength of the views that have been espoused by the Labour Party about why it is so important that when an amendment is going through that actually imposes a new levy\u2014a tax; the departmental report has been very clear that this is a tax\u2014that it is a significant matter that should not be allowed just to pass without due process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere are so many other things sitting behind this, around the Rural Broadband Initiative version 1 and whether or not it has actually been successful. And here we are voting on an amendment to provide more money for version 2. There is a lack of evidence, a lack of process, and a lack of accountability from the Government, which has expended that money\u2014that $300 million\u2014in the past 5 years for a programme that it is now planning to re-fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIn the meantime, there are many other ways that the lack of rural broadband is being dealt with throughout New Zealand, which, again, members have talked about tonight. Communities are actually trying to do it for themselves, and are doing it in conjunction with rural local providers, and are doing it more successfully and are bypassing the scheme that has been funded by the Government, because it is just not working. Here we are about to commit another $150 million in the same vein, with no scrutiny, no evidential base, and with even the regulatory impact statement telling us that there is no achievement of the policy directives relating to it, because they have not been evaluated. So it seems to me that it would be irresponsible, and even negligent, to actually approve this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0600f22315c4d3c9ee3dc559b58a6cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0600f22315c4d3c9ee3dc559b58a6cb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E The clause that we are currently debating is clause 3, which directs the Committee to the principal Act, being the Telecommunications Act 2001. I think that it is important for the Committee to bear in mind the history of the development of that Act\u2014in terms of the shaking of the Chairman\u2019s head, which means that one might want to stay somewhat closer to the detail of the Act. Therefore, this is not the occasion on which to go into the Fletcher inquiry and the review that followed the legislative process, which, as I recall, was a full process that included a very wide set of consultations with the community. It led later to amendments to the Act, in around 2005-06, following a 6-month review called, if I remember rightly, the \u201CStocktake Review\u201D, at which every single company was brought in and the nature of the issues confronting the industry were surfaced and a set of quite far-reaching amendments were brought into play, which broke up the incumbent telecommunications monopoly, which unbundled the local loop, which set in place, I think, a pretty proactive regulatory framework that brought completion to bear in the industry, while at the same time protecting consumer rights and property rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb0a7120af0f425795b53985934211f3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to interrupt the member now to remind him\u2014[Interruption]\u2014that the Committee has accepted the principle of the change. Who said that? The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecd7d61c0bad4802a9f48d71393d9ce1\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am just seeking your clarification. For what am I withdrawing and apologising?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4ca858942f74ec8ad0e45e608b43aff\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: You are withdrawing and apologising for yelling out while I was on my feet. You were the member who pleaded guilty, I think, to making the noise. Is that right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022521c4ea6ef0245bda5d10e9414bee7e5\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Chair asking me a question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ac504965ae543319dfe3b530cc47679\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I will apologise to the member if I have got it wrong, but I thought the member was the member who yelled out and that she did indicate that she was. That is why the member withdrew and apologised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8d24cb4db57435b9c1c65b414a065b7\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I did. It is just that I was pointing out to the member that it is the normal procedure of this Committee that when the Chair is on his feet, members sit down, and I was merely reminding the member of that fact. I was trying to be helpful. If I am guilty of anything, I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265801ad4517f4a9b8c951c8e9b89bc12\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will now resume her seat\u2014[Interruption]\u2014and I will remind her that when anyone in the Chair is on their feet, the member should sit down. It is the role of the Chair to enforce that rule, and not the role of any other member. Although I might need some coaching, the member is welcome to do that at some stage outside the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMr Cunliffe, going back to the point that I was making: this is a very narrow bill. It is the most substantive clause in the bill but it is a very narrow bill, and it does not go back to either the origins of the Act or the 2005 reforms. I think one might be able to go to the amount we are talking about and that shape of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e018a3b956149afb22661f87c4713eb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for the clarification, Mr Chairman. I guess the point that I was trying to come to, albeit a little slowly, is that the process that this amendment here is following is so different from the process that the principal Act went through on several occasions. Here we are going through a process of urgency without the benefit of a select committee\u2014and I know that that is something that you, Mr Chairman, will be taking into account by allowing for a full debate of these albeit quite specific clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe reason that that is an issue is that a number of members have made the point that there has been no evaluation of the existing $300 million programme that is enshrined in legislation, including its sunset clause. Mr Chairman, you may not have been privy to the statement from the Telecommunications Carriers Forum that drew attention to the fact that this new tax is overriding provisions made in law for the sunsetting of the previous obligations. That is a serious matter; one which members\u2014certainly of this party, if not this side of the Chamber\u2014would wish to see investigated thoroughly by a select committee, which has the benefit of public submissions from the industry as well as consumer groups. I think I have made the point that I need to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIn summary, this is amending a very substantive piece of legislation. It has fiscal consequences. I think it is now generally accepted by the House that this is a new tax\u2014that this is a breach of an undertaking that the Government did give to the people of New Zealand that there would be no new taxes. I think that is now quite widely accepted around the House. It has certainly been stated on multiple occasions not only by individual companies but also by the industry group concerned, the Telecommunications Carriers Forum. And, as such, we are in the situation where we are amending, through urgency, a very important piece of tax law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EEarlier Mr Faafoi was going to draw the attention of the House to a matter that is close to Mr Bennett\u2019s heart\u2014that the generic tax policy process has been thwarted on this occasion. As members opposite well know, when a piece of legislation goes through\u2014either by amendment to a principal Act, as in this case, or when it is a new Act that has revenue consequences\u2014there is an established convention, during the generic tax policy process, that the accounting profession and the legal profession are consulted to ensure that there are no unintended fish-hooks in the design of the legislation, and there is a sharing process, normally over a period of about 6 to 9 months, where feedback is sought and consultation occurs. This way there are no surprises. The industry implementation issues are thrashed through. None of that\u2014none of that\u2014is occurring in this case. I am sure that Mr Bennett will want to rise to his feet and express his condemnation of the Minister for this outrageous breach of standard tax process; one that has kept the country safe over many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ERecalling very briefly the impact from the previous clause around the commencement issues, there is no fixed date for commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022298edce3f377487ba93ef8a91262e1c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022298edce3f377487ba93ef8a91262e1c4\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022602bc7b9c7c34519be0297a66de85df6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022602bc7b9c7c34519be0297a66de85df6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: No, this is the most substantive clause in this bill, and it has not been to a select committee. We are quite a long way off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00227b48d05eda53401484c90af19cdd2070\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b48d05eda53401484c90af19cdd2070\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E At this point I just want to speak to our Supplementary Order Papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00221d7186eb2a964333ac7bf55597a42fa8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d7186eb2a964333ac7bf55597a42fa8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: We will wait until we get on to the Supplementary Order Papers. That is a separate debate, because you are proposing separate clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cac87d0f20c341e1b76114ad5e0025d9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 88\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 32\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6000999\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 89, Noes 32.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f37640317514da1bdae8c2cad957982\u0022\u003ENew clause 3A\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225276831c5bec411fb120509dc464c0f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225276831c5bec411fb120509dc464c0f9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: We have two amendments on the Table: one from Gareth Hughes and one from James Shaw. Although not the same, they are quite closely related, and I propose to the Committee that we debate the two Supplementary Order Papers, Nos. 82 and 83, together but vote on them separately. Is there any objection to that process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00228031afc793884949b9c2262f548aae52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228031afc793884949b9c2262f548aae52\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I just wanted to speak briefly to these Supplementary Order Papers. We did speak, earlier on in the debate, about the Supplementary Order Papers that we will be introducing. If you would just allow me to read from the Supplementary Order Papers, the first one, which is in the name of Gareth Hughes, adds new clause 3A, which is to amend section 90 of the Act, \u201CCrown use of telecommunications development levy\u201D. After section 90(3), it would insert subsection (4): \u201CThe Minister must ensure that any use of the telecommunications development levy for purposes specified in subsection (1)(b) or (d) promotes\u2014(a) competition in non-urban telecommunications markets; and (b) the diversity of non-urban communities intended to be served by the levy; and (c) the range of different technological options that may best serve particular non-urban communities; and (d) the rapid pace of technological development.\u201D The second Supplementary Order Paper, which is in my name, would amend section 90 as well and inserts \u201C(4) The Minister must ensure that any use of the telecommunications development levy for the purposes under subsection (1)(b) or (d) does not fund any person to meet their existing contractual requirements with the Crown.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI would just like to speak very briefly to these Supplementary Order Papers. Earlier on in the debate, I tried to discern what the different objections were, and the Labour Party has raised a number of extremely pertinent questions about the bill. One of those is to do with the evaluation of and reporting on the effectiveness of the existing Rural Broadband Initiative. That is, essentially, the intention of Gareth Hughes\u2019 Supplementary Order Paper, which is to ensure that new technologies that are emerging and the pace of that change are taken into account in order to ensure that there is competition and diversity of players in the market place. The Supplementary Order Paper will ensure that the needs of the local environment and the local communities, and some of those variances between places, are taken into account so that we do not have a one-size-fits-all approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EEarlier on in the debate, Mr Cunliffe used the example of Mount Cook, saying that we are not necessarily going to lay a massive ultra-fast broadband pipe to Mount Cook, because there are not enough people there. But there are a range of technologies that we might consider. As an example, people have used balloons or mobile telephony, and so on. The intention behind this Supplementary Order Paper is, essentially, to ensure that these funds raised are used wisely and that they encourage a market-oriented approach, as opposed to favouring just a few big companies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe intention of the second Supplementary Order Paper, in my name, where it says \u201CThe Minister must ensure that any use of the telecommunications development levy \u2026 does not fund any person to meet their existing contractual requirements with the Crown.\u201D, is to deal with a question raised about how Spark and Vodafone\u2014particularly, when they were awarded earlier contracts with the 700 megahertz spectrum\u2014got a lower price because they made a commitment to install black spot towers in return for a better price. We wanted to ensure that the funds raised through this extension of the levy are not used to fund existing contractual requirements\u2014essentially, so that those companies would not have two bites of the same cherry. That is the intention of those Supplementary Order Papers, and I shall rest here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022e78f8fa600f740d38235d6e32547a270\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e78f8fa600f740d38235d6e32547a270\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to speak in support of the Green Party\u2019s two Supplementary Order Papers. I suppose I would make the comment that this is the discussion that we would have been having in the select committee if we had been able to have a select committee hearing. In fact, I would argue that the Committee of the whole House stage tonight has been like a select committee hearing, although it has been fairly one-sided because the ability to have a proper debate with all of the parties has not actually occurred, which is one of our main problems with this bill. We are also unable, through this process, to hear from submitters representing consumers from different communities throughout rural New Zealand. The only chance that we have had to do that is through a select committee process with some petitioners from specific rural communities just outside of Dunedin who had very strong views.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWith regard to the two Supplementary Order Papers before the Committee, I would argue that they hit some of the nails on the head, with regard to the concerns around the problems that lie with the existing Rural Broadband Initiative. The problem that I have, and that the Labour Party has, is that we are unable to judge the value of the existing Rural Broadband Initiative in these terms. It is only an amendment to the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill that goes forward for the next tranche of the Rural Broadband Initiative; therefore, there is no ability for there to be an in-depth discussion about matters such as diversity for non-urban communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI would contend that competition is one of the most important things here, and I just draw your attention to page 7 of the regulatory impact statement, to point No. 17, where it says that it is anticipated that much of the future telecommunications development levy funding earmarked for Rural Broadband Initiative extensions could be allocated to the larger telecommunications development levy players if they secure contracts to supply infrastructure for the Rural Broadband Initiative extensions. Well, right there is a significant issue. The whole purpose of the Rural Broadband Initiative, or one of the purposes, was for it to be open access\u2014for the infrastructure to be built, but for there to be the ability for other players to come in and for there to be a competitive environment. We do not think that that has occurred; or if it has, it has occurred only in a very limited way. But we are not absolutely sure because there has not been a proper evaluation done. Here we have a regulatory impact statement telling us that the next tranche may be dominated by big players. If that is the case, then is that the best expenditure of the money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe competition aspect of Supplementary Order Paper 83 is quite critical in ensuring that the different technological options that may best serve particular non-urban communities are available. With regard to that, I am not quite sure what that is referring to specifically, but I am hoping that it is referring to the fact that 5 megabits, which was offered in the initial Rural Broadband Initiative, is patently insufficient, particularly in the era of Netflix, where rural New Zealand is, basically, unable to access the new technologies and the new content offers that are coming into our country. It is urban New Zealand that is going to be able to access and benefit from those, and enjoy those things, and rural New Zealand is just not going to have the capacity. These are really critical issues, and they are critical issues that should have been teased out in a select committee, with the full ability for submitters to come before us. That is not going to happen. Instead, the shadowy entity that is the Rural Broadband Initiative is going to be allowed to continue on unchecked and with no accountability. We implacably oppose that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00228846bc8440284085a3593944484da12e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228846bc8440284085a3593944484da12e\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I came down from my office especially to take a call, particularly on these Supplementary Order Papers, because of the fact that New Zealand First is hopeful. As a Wairarapa-based MP, I am very hopeful that this legislation, which New Zealand First is supporting, led by our MP Tracey Martin, will actually deal with those black spots. But we have had some concern over the years, looking at the way in which the roll-out of the Rural Broadband Initiative has been delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EAs Mayor of Carterton and in my time there, it was somewhat frustrating, after all of the good news about the rural broadband roll-out and where it was going, to find that in places where you would expect there to be good coverage, astonishingly, there was not. I point to a little place in the Wairarapa called Greytown. It is a little place where you drive up State Highway 2, through Featherston, into Greytown, and the first thing you note when you come into Greytown on the weekend is the number of Wellingtonians who are there. You hear consistently in the hotels, the bars, and the shops, and at the festivals and the fairs, about how frustrated people get by their inability to use their cellphones to ring back to David Seymour or to anyone else in Parliament, or to anyone else in Wellington, or to anyone else in doing business. I would just hope that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225850fa1181f040d6a50b8bf2a5e68709\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It is not at all hard to relate what the member is saying to the Supplementary Order Papers, but the member does have to do it in order to remain relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022532446d176374e13968b9eb44bd8ec92\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your guidance, Mr Chairman. I take confidence in this particular Supplementary Order Paper put forward by Gareth Hughes. Where it says \u201C(a) competition in non-urban telecommunications markets\u201D, that is us. Where it says \u201C(b) the diversity of non-urban communities intended to be served by the levy;\u201D, we would hope, given the number of small telecommunications companies in rural provincial New Zealand\u2014small telecommunications companies that have a lot of experience in how to tackle the difficulties of getting good communications through rural New Zealand\u2014that this Supplementary Order Paper would give them the opportunity to be involved and would allow them to compete, so that they can apply their extensive experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI can name probably half a dozen small telecommunications companies that are operating in the Wairarapa, but they seem to be shut out. There seems to be something in the process that forever and for always puts the delivery of the service, the provision of the service, and the roll-out of the broadband in the hands of a very small bloc\u2014namely, Chorus. I would hope, if nothing else, even if the Government does not approve this\u2014and I have got a strong sense that it is not going to vote for these Supplementary Order Papers\u2014that it would still get the message, because it is heartland rural New Zealand that is actually suffering right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIt is very frustrating for people there when they go to talk to WIZwireless\u2014when they go to talk to some of the M\u0101ori telecommunications providers such as Tuar\u014Dpaki Communications Ltd up in the central plateau. Tuar\u014Dpaki Communications Ltd has invested very heavily in communications. In fact, it is a strong shareholder in 2degrees, but where did its roots start? Its roots started very small, in a small telecommunications company. The question is: would Tuar\u014Dpaki Communications Ltd and its derivatives, would the company that it is now a shareholder in\u2014I think it is now working with Thinktank; it was with Timaru-based BayCity Communications\u2014would these small telecommunications companies get an opportunity to have a shot without this clause?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI would hope that we would support this clause. I would hope that this clause would allow greater competition opportunity for the small telecommunications companies, which are experienced in rural New Zealand and in delivering services out to place like Akitio, Flat Point, and Tora. Those are the areas that are suffering dearly. The notion that we are suffering in Greytown is absolutely astonishing, and I would argue that so far the dependence on the major telecommunications companies to deliver this service has done Greytown poorly\u2014very poorly. That in itself is a very strong argument for the Government considering making sure that these other rural telecommunications companies, which do have the experience, which are out there, which very often do the work for half the price and are a lot more productive because they are grateful for the business, and which do this service very well because they want more business get a better shot. And we believe that this Supplementary Order Paper would give them that opportunity and that it would give them an absolute assurance that they would be invited and asked to give it a shot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI am grateful that our caucus is supporting this Supplementary Order Paper, and I am grateful to Gareth Hughes for putting it forward, because for far too long these small rural telecommunications companies have been ignored. For far too long the productivity they offer has been let slide by.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00220a7b16ccc3864139aef2b0901f31334f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a7b16ccc3864139aef2b0901f31334f\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chair. Thank you very much. If I could just pick up where my colleague Ron Mark left off, with regard to these Supplementary Order Papers\u2014specifically, the Supplementary Order Paper that Gareth Hughes has put forward, which is around making sure that there is competition in the non-urban telecommunications market and diversity in non-urban communities. Specifically, I would like to request that the M\u0101ori Party and the ACT Party cast their votes for these amendments\u2014the ACT Party because it is a believer in competition and because that is what the party stands for: an open market. This is something that I cannot imagine the ACT Party would not support: making sure that all members of the telecommunications community have an opportunity to vie for these Government dollars, so that they can compete in a real market. I would also seek, and I am hoping, that the M\u0101ori Party might also support these amendments, because, again, this is about rural communities, rural workforces, and rural companies and small to medium sized enterprises. That is what these clauses are about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EIn the last few minutes I have received an email with regard to these Supplementary Order Papers from Taylor Communications, which is the largest fixed wireless rural broadband provider in the Hawke\u2019s Bay. It wishes to confirm that the charges of the telecommunications development levy will not result in extra costs being passed on to consumers. It says: \u201CThe telecommunications development levy (TDL) has been built in to our existing pricing and will continue to be done.\u201D This is one of those companies. They pay the levy. They already pay the levy, these small telecommunications companies. But unless this Supplementary Order Paper goes through, there is no guarantee that they will be allowed to play with the big boys. The email continues: \u201CIt is well known that the previous $300 million has not been well spent, but with the new funding that is planned for the next few years, it will bring real results, bringing real broadband to rural New Zealand if it is distributed by our regional players. The New Zealand Wireless Providers Association is a collective of rural broadband providers that are applying for TDL funding. With no Government funding in the past, they have achieved over 50,000 rural subscribers, providing download speeds in excess of 5 megabytes per second.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThis Supplementary Order Paper supports those providers. I implore the M\u0101ori Party and the ACT Party to assist today and to stand by their principles of real competition, supporting M\u0101ori, and supporting rural communities. Vote for this Supplementary Order Paper to place this in the legislation. I am sure that they have the opportunity and the time to walk over and let the whip of the Government members know that that is the way they will be voting\u2014thereby meeting the obligations of their agreement. Therefore, again, I implore the M\u0101ori Party and the ACT Party to stand up for what they believe in and to vote for this Supplementary Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00226bfb073f463b4eb1b17f3b190c7f82ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bfb073f463b4eb1b17f3b190c7f82ef\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1dee124bbdf4685bffee285d4ae78c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1dee124bbdf4685bffee285d4ae78c3\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I take great pleasure in responding to the previous speech by Tracey Martin and, in particular, to subclause (4)(a) of new clause 3A of one of the two Supplementary Order Papers currently on the Table, Supplementary Order Paper 83. The assertion is that people of a certain philosophical persuasion should be in favour of supporting that particular paragraph because competition in a particular location is always a good thing. There is some quite interesting economic theory behind this particular topic, relating back to the Nobel Prize winner who, sadly, died only a couple of years ago, Ronald Coase. Ronald Coase won his Nobel Prize primarily for his work on the nature of the firm. The story of Coase will take us directly to the matter at hand in subclause (4)(a). Is competition the only value that believers in free enterprise and economic efficiency should pursue? Or is economy of scale also a particularly important virtue that we should want? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ECoase\u2019s story was that he started as a socialist. He might well have found his place on the far left of New Zealand First, but, unlike those members, he was a thinking man, a very inquisitive man who knew to ask the right questions. What he did was he travelled from his home in England to, at that time, the centre of industry in Chicago, and he asked the people at General Motors: \u201CWhy is it that in a capitalist economy you practise an island of socialism, a firm where you have a dictatorship over a group of resources? Why do you do that when competition works so well? Why do you believe in so much economy of scale? Why might you, 80 years hence, be opposed to (4)(a) being inserted in this bill?\u201D. And the answer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b10e9a588c5349aa8e74c0dd08f444bf\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: He definitely asked that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf0ffa1bc9b04d81b7dd9e40d66643f2\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: He may well have asked that question had he been able to anticipate such a silly speech from Tracey Martin, but despite being a great man and a Nobel Prize winner, Ronald Coase was not able to anticipate Tracey Martin. Few of us would have been able to. The answer that Ronald Coase got from asking the right question, which eventually earned him a Nobel Prize, was that firms should expand. The nature of the firm is that firms should expand up until the point where the marginal transaction outside the firm has greater transaction costs than the marginal transaction within the firm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis is something that is very, very difficult to determine by statute. It is something that must be discovered in the market place, and that is why the ACT Party is a believer in free markets but opposed to subclause (4)(a) in this Supplementary Order Paper. Interestingly, in the course of this inquiry\u2014I hope they are learning something there\u2014Ronald Coase discovered transaction costs. Transactions costs are one of the most important things to understand when it comes to being a true believer in free markets and economic efficiency. I do not think we will see that level of sophistication or understanding in some seats across the Chamber, but since I was asked, that is why I am opposed to this Supplementary Order Paper. I do not believe that it will increase economic efficiency or the welfare of New Zealanders in respect of telecommunications. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u00220c0e1fa951254c6d8a7437dc62ecdfe3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c0e1fa951254c6d8a7437dc62ecdfe3\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 82 in the name of James Shaw to insert new clause 3A be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227d0b9df103bf472388c23ade8416b5bc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001030\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 83 in the name of Gareth Hughes to insert new clause 3A be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221e498559667947a6abd6589522d7cd7b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022073cc492045a4bc8a112d86c0012a2ce\u0022\u003EClause 4  Schedule 3B amended\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00226aefe9a5069943ab819555e18632ae1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226aefe9a5069943ab819555e18632ae1a\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier in the debate I tried to summarise the various arguments that I had been hearing and some of the concerns and questions that had been raised about the bill. Some of them are pertinent to schedule 3B, which discusses the amounts that are being raised, saying in 2016-17 it will be $50 million, the same in 2017-18, and again in 2018-19. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI would just like to acknowledge the Minister Amy Adams for taking the call and responding to a number of the questions that I had itemised. I think that she gave responses to four of the nine questions, but there are still five to be answered and, in fact, there have been a couple of other questions that have been raised since. The questions in relation to the amounts are really to do with the value for money of the previous programme and whether we should be seeking to raise this $50 million a year, as specified in clause 4 here, when we are unsure about the $300 million that has been spent on the programme so far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe questions that I put earlier\u2014and I would appreciate hearing from the Minister or someone on the Government benches\u2014were about whether there has been good use of the money. Firstly, there have been a number of complaints about the quality of the connections that people have received as part of the existing programme, and the sense that, actually, for all of that money, the quality of the connections is not all that good. Secondly, there is the issue of the evaluating and reporting on the effectiveness of the Rural Broadband Initiative. There is sort of a sense that, actually, some really good programme evaluation has not yet occurred and that that money may be kind of good money after bad. We have not yet heard, I believe, from the Minister or from the Government about those concerns. I would like to get a response from the Government on that in relation to these amounts here in this clause. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022264151db4d7a44b0a12700277eb39487\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That clause 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001035\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 63, Noes 58.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001036\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001037\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002209c06f6567314366bdb4a59ae029d46e\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u00225a4298cf7bf743028f9ba65e754bb2ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a4298cf7bf743028f9ba65e754bb2ab\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister for Communications):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. As I have heard in this debate, fast and reliable connectivity is critical to New Zealand\u2019s economic growth. Like running water or electricity, connectivity has become a fundamental must-have service for homes and businesses. The Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill\u2014we should have given it a catchier name\u2014highlights the Government\u2019s commitment to extending enhanced connectivity to regional New Zealand. It will help us to deliver faster, more reliable connectivity to the regions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI would have thought that it would be hard to argue against better connectivity for our rural and remote communities, but there have been a number of MPs across the other side of the House\u2014Labour MPs\u2014who I believe are putting politics ahead of people. I cannot wait to be out on the stump in 2017 reminding rural New Zealanders that Labour campaigned against their getting better broadband. Labour is the only party in the House opposing this bill, and I find its position astonishing. It is showing tonight that it would rather side with the telecommunications company executives and their profits than support the extension of broadband to communities that need it. No wonder it cannot win in regional New Zealand. No wonder it is so out of touch. No wonder it is bottoming out in the polls. It cannot even bring itself to support better broadband for regional growth for rural and provincial New Zealanders who desperately need it. It annoys Labour so much to see a Government programme succeeding that it will cut off its nose to spite its face. And, of course, Labour members cannot filibuster if they are voting in favour, which is what we know they are all about, really.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThere has been some confusion from the benches opposite, so let me set some things out very clearly. Opposition members who are opposing the extension of the Rural Broadband Initiative are opposing the basic principle of ensuring that our most rural areas have the same opportunities that faster broadband offers our cities. We do not support that. Opposing this extension is refusing rural New Zealanders the same connectivity that other parts of New Zealand enjoy. Labour members will tell us\u2014and they have been telling us throughout this debate\u2014that uptake of the Rural Broadband Initiative is low. They are cherry-picking the numbers, and they know it. We know that 8,500 people have signed up under the fixed wireless broadband programme, and that is only 20 percent of the Rural Broadband Initiative 1 spend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EFurthermore, Labour members are completely ignoring the fact that one of the core benefits of that part of the spend is enhancing cellphone connectivity. The cellphone connectivity benefits of those Rural Broadband Initiative towers mean that every quarter nearly 2 million New Zealanders benefit from it. The other 80 percent of the programme is fixed line copper broadband. As of 31 March more than 85,000 households were able to connect, and almost 68,000 households have. That is an uptake rate of 80 percent. That does not even begin to cover the service provision to rural hospitals, rural health centres, and rural schools. This is the programme that Labour is trying to tell you is not working and is failing. If that is the definition of failure, Labour has not got a clue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWe have also heard that this is some sort of new tax. Well, I can tell you that it is not a tax and it sure the heck is not new. Taxes, for those who do not know, have a broad-based application. Levies are targeted and are used for specific targeted purposes. The telecommunications development levy has been in force since 2011 and replaced the telecommunications service obligation, which had been in force even longer and was higher. And, of course, we announced these changes in August. In this case, it is a levy charged against some of the large telecommunications companies, and it is used to fund open access infrastructure in areas where it would otherwise not be commercially viable for it to be built. Someone has to pay for it, and I do not believe it is fair that taxpayers should foot the bill for the infrastructure that the telecommunications companies use to provide their commercial services. The levy is user-pays, and that is exactly how it should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s rural broadband programme reflects our commitment to rural communities. We are working with our private sector partners to provide services and coverage that would not otherwise be feasible. By 2016, 90 percent of New Zealanders in areas not covered by ultra-fast broadband will have access to rural broadband under Rural Broadband Initiative 1. The $150 million raised by this levy extension will be put specifically towards extending the Rural Broadband Initiative so that almost all Kiwis can benefit from better connectivity under the National Government. That is $100 million for expanding fast, reliable broadband to the regions, and a further $50 million for expanding mobile network coverage in black spots.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe Rural Broadband Initiative is making an immense difference to the way that rural firms do business, to the way that our kids learn in rural and remote schools, and to the way that health services are delivered to patients. There does, however, remain a high level of unmet demand in rural areas that are not scheduled to receive upgrades under the original Rural Broadband Initiative. This is due to increased numbers of customers, high download demand constrained by existing cabinet technology, and backhaul limitation. This bill is about letting us get on with making funding available for communities to improve their connectivity, with a $100 million contestable fund for extending broadband in our regions. The criteria for the fund will focus on enhancing connectivity across all areas outside the ultra-fast broadband footprint, and they are open-minded about the range of technologies that will be used. This bill means better connectivity for more people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EMobile phone coverage is an essential form of connectivity and can be even more important in rural and remote New Zealand, where it has benefits for public safety, as well as the potential to grow productivity in our regions. Currently, the Spark, Vodafone, and 2degrees networks claim to provide, collectively, mobile access to approximately 97 percent of New Zealand premises. However, those existing mobile networks achieve less than 50 percent geographic coverage of New Zealand. There remain many rural and remote areas of New Zealand such as sections of State highways and remote tourist areas that would benefit from extended coverage. The benefits of expanded mobile coverage include, of course, improved communications for businesses and residents who live and work in those areas; improved public safety, particularly on our State highways; and making our tourism destinations more attractive, particularly in some of those smaller communities. As a result, this Government is establishing a $50 million contestable fund with the aim of providing mobile emergency calling and voice and contemporary data service coverage. The fund will enable companies and communities to nominate black spots in key tourist areas and work together to make a case for funding. Let me also confirm that none of the money from this contestable fund will enable any company to satisfy its existing obligations to provide coverage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ERural connectivity is absolutely critical, and everyone in this House agrees on that, except for Labour. Everyone in this House agrees on that, except for Labour. Can I thank New Zealand First, the Greens, the M\u0101ori Party, United Future, and ACT for their constructive approach and for recognising that, actually, we do need to get on, at pace, with rolling out broadband to our rural communities. Someone has to pay, and it is appropriate that it should fall on the telecommunications companies. I thank those parties for recognising that this levy has been in place for a long time. It is a matter of cents in each bill, and if any telecommunications companies argue that they needs to put their prices up as a result, then their consumers should look long and hard at those claims, because I do not believe that they stack up. This is a Government that is fulfilling its promises to regional New Zealand. This is a Government that knows that connectivity is the core plank for regional economic growth, and this is the Government that is delivering it. I am proud to commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca48e42770944c59b18261b40dd6a3e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca48e42770944c59b18261b40dd6a3e1\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Labour believes that there should be an inquiry into the Rural Broadband Initiative. If there is anything that has come out of the debate tonight, then it is that this Government does not listen and that that Minister, Amy Adams, does not listen. This Minister pushes things through and ignores concerns. She has denied that this is a tax. It is obvious that this is clearly a tax on consumers, and it is going to be imposed on consumers. She has refused to answer questions about the evidential basis for the rural broadband scheme and whether it has actually delivered. She has refused point-blank to provide any evidence to the House or in this debate, and her ministry has not provided any information on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe debate that the Opposition parties have had tonight begins the debate that should have been held in a select committee. This should have been a first reading speech. If this had been a first reading speech, then the Labour Party would have supported the bill in its first reading. The Labour Party would have supported the bill in its first reading. This is a bill that is being taken through all its stages under urgency, with no opportunity for submitters to come before a select committee or for members of a select committee to ask for evidence from all parts of the rural community. We have heard tonight from some of the industry players. We have heard from a major telecommunications company. We have heard from an industry association that represents the telecommunications industry, and we have heard from the organisation that represents the smaller wireless internet service providers, which are the ones that are coming up and the ones that are building strong, community-based connectivity throughout New Zealand that is not part of the Rural Broadband Initiative. Those are the organisations that should be being supported and nurtured, but the Rural Broadband Initiative is not doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe Rural Broadband Initiative has had no scrutiny, and the next part of the Rural Broadband Initiative will have no scrutiny either, which is why Labour cannot support it. If there is to be an inquiry, then we need to take a principled view on this, and that is what Labour has done tonight. Labour members took a consistent, principled view on these issues when they went into the election. We went into the election with policy that raised concerns about the Rural Broadband Initiative. We said that there had been ongoing concerns, over a number of years, that the Rural Broadband Initiative was not delivering broadband to the tens of thousands of rural New Zealanders. We said that the existing scheme was inadequate for the needs of many of our rural communities, and that although it was providing internet access via cellphone towers\u2014that is an improvement over dial-up, and there is no doubt about that\u2014it falls far short of the quality and speed provided to urban New Zealanders through ultra-fast broadband and existing connections. This is not the step change that the Government promised. The standard of rural broadband services has been woefully less than the step change that was promised. We have taken a principled position on this, and we are holding to that position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis issue is not about telecommunications companies, actually. It is not even about the instrument of the telecommunications development levy as a levy\u2014that is not what this debate is about. It is about what this Government is doing without scrutiny, under the cover of urgency. It is pushing legislation through that will spend $150 million of new money, which is going to be paid for by the industry but will be passed on to consumers\u2014and I do not think that anyone can argue about that tonight\u2014and the debate is about whether or not it is right to do so. We have missed a stage in the process, and it is a critical stage. We are the legislators. We are the legislators who are making the decisions on these issues, and we have got to be accountable for them. If you do not take a principled position and you allow a piece of legislation that commits $150 million to go through all its stages under urgency, with no scrutiny, then the Labour Party thinks that that is irresponsible. We cannot, in good conscience, vote for this bill, because it has not gone through the right process. The Minister has not addressed the important questions that have been raised tonight. She has glossed over the issues. She has refused to answer questions about where the accountability for the Rural Broadband Initiative lies and where the economic analysis for the next tranche of this programme sits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere are real New Zealand businesses that are investing heavily without Government or industry-funded money through a levy. They are investing heavily in their local communities. They are based in places like Gore, \u014Cwaka, Timaru, Ashburton, Culverden, Seddon, Richmond, Masterton, Napier, Palmerston, Palmerston North, Inglewood, Hamilton, Tauranga, Waiheke, and Whangarei. The organisation that contacted us via the email that my colleague from New Zealand First Tracey Martin read out earlier is an organisation that was formed only recently and that represents those wireless internet service providers that are the quintessential essence of what innovation in rural New Zealand looks like. But they are struggling because they are doing it themselves, and this Government has allowed a programme to be developed around rural broadband that, firstly, has not delivered for consumers, and, secondly, has provided the money mainly to big providers, which have entrenched their status in rural New Zealand and have blocked many of those smaller companies from coming through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere are no guarantees by passing this legislation tonight that those smaller companies are going to get a look-in and are going to be able to thrive. That is the story. That is what we should be promoting here tonight: the progress of a piece of legislation that is going to nurture those sorts of businesses and allow communities to develop connection capability that actually suits their region and that is not part of a one-size-fits-all structure, which is what this Minister is proposing and which the previous Rural Broadband Initiative has done and has not delivered on. Labour cannot support this bill tonight because we have taken a principled position. We are absolutely committed to rural connectivity. We are the party that took comprehensive policy into the last election. We are the party that works alongside rural New Zealand and rural communities. We are the party that knows how to do this well rather than the once-over-lightly from the Minister and what she is proposing to this House. We do not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00227bca3b152a53483b8ff0725ec4b502f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bca3b152a53483b8ff0725ec4b502f9\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I could start off in many ways in this third reading of the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill, but I will actually start by borrowing a line from a movie that I saw many, many moons ago: you, Miss Clare Curran, had me at \u201Cinquiry\u201D. I mean you had me gobsmacked with the word \u201Cinquiry\u201D. This is how Labour does everything: \u201CLet\u2019s do an inquiry.\u201D With the modern-day techno speeds that we actually get in this world, she wants an inquiry that will take months and possibly years and millions of dollars potentially. She wants an inquiry. People in the rural sector are complaining to her, as she commented, and she wants an inquiry. This is so typical of Labour. This is how ineffective it is and this is how wrong it is about this issue. It is the only party in this Parliament that is opposing this bill. We live\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277333e3c-5658-4149-9cad-262a0deed378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207b5212324bf46419040d41b321ba608\u0022\u003ETodd Barclay\u003C/span\u003E: Shame!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a911eabd55644d35a673251719c80b5e\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is right, shame. Todd Barclay, you know about the rural sector. You actually live there. You know how desperately we actually need this. We live in a world where things are instant and accessible. We can even access our telephones with a thumbprint nowadays. We cannot wait for an inquiry. This is the reason why we are here. This is a good bill and we need to pass it tonight. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9b386a39eed45c5a77d9dc4566af40a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9b386a39eed45c5a77d9dc4566af40a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E It is so disappointing to see a Government so out of ideas, so vacant, so desperate to hit the panic button that it has New Zealand\u2019s Parliament in urgency after Budget night for a bill that, from its point of view, is simply a bill to roll over an existing tax. The Government cannot have it both ways; either this bill is a \u201Cnothing\u201D\u2014in which case the Government should not be taking Parliament\u2019s time, abrogating the select committee process, and ramming the bill through under urgency\u2014or it is actually an issue and it is actually a problem, and it needs to be thoroughly debated. The Government cannot have it both ways. The Minister, \u201COut of Breath\u201D Amy, is back here saying the oldest trick in the book: that Labour opposes broadband. We do not oppose broadband. Our whole history has shown leadership in the telecommunications sector, without which this Government would have very little to play with. It does not have to lecture us about our commitment to rural broadband. We are absolutely secure in our commitment to broadband roll-out. Straw man arguments never work. They never work because, in fact, we know why we are opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI am going to take you through the objectives of good policy. I am going to take you through the issues that arise with this bill, and, finally, why we cannot support it on grounds of process. The objectives are quite simple: better connections for faster, cheaper broadband everywhere in New Zealand\u2014ubiquitous coverage. We want to see users with strong capability and the confidence to use the gear wherever they are in New Zealand. We want to close digital divides. And, thirdly, we want vibrant content competition wherever people are in New Zealand. That means having enough bandwidth so that terrestrial, aerial, and online providers can compete to deliver the best deals to consumers. We are firmly on the side of getting broadband into the regions. The issue is not \u201Cwhether\u201D, but \u201Chow\u201D. That is where the Government\u2019s arguments run into fundamental trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EEarlier we quoted from an extensive OECD study that showed the really wide range of issues that arise with rural broadband roll-out. It is necessary to evaluate the $300 million worth of investment that has already been made. It is necessary for a range of reasons. The technology is shifting, and the frontiers between backhaul fibre, copper extension, mobile satellite and innovative disruptive technologies like Project Loon from Google\u2014all of those things\u2014are changing, and we need to assess the best way to deploy the public\u2019s money. The second issue is that this is a tax. The industry has made it clear that this is a tax. The Telecommunications Carriers Forum has made it clear that this is a tax. It is a tax; therefore, it is a broken promise. It is a tax; therefore, it should not be done under urgency without a generic tax policy process or proper select committee consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe Government, in its attempt at a defence, said: \u201CNo, no, it is just the rolling over of an existing programme.\u201D No, it is not. It is not, because the existing law legislates for the sunsetting of the current telecommunications development levy. It legislates the sunset. That is why the Government has managed to enrage pretty much the whole industry with this seemingly simple piece of law, because companies have had to disclose their profitability based on some certainty of contracts under the existing law. They certainly did not expect the Government to undermine that by pushing legislation through under urgency. This is a change, it overturns preceding law, it overturns preceding contracts, and it is somewhat strange to see members opposite delving, with some torture, through the archaeology of Coase theorem to find some justification for standing on their liberal heads and saying that they are in favour of Parliament expropriating private property rights without so much as a by-your-leave or the \u201CThe Maestro\u201D of the Northland by-election giving a decent explanation. Chris Bishop\u2014back to strategy school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe other problem with this is\u2014without evaluating the rural broadband programme that has currently been in place\u2014that there could be very, very few technology areas as dynamic as broadband roll-out over long distance. We have got 3G, we have got 4G, and we have got 5G coming, which looks like it will deliver more broadband speed than you can get through a closed deployed copper wire. It is certainly going to be very disruptive for the industry. Any prudent Government would want to look very carefully at that technology frontier before putting a new obligation on the industry, which is designed for the old world, not the new\u2014designed for the old world, not the new. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe bottom line is that we can have a whole lot of arguments about the technology, about the construction of the tax, about how good or bad the previous deployment has been, but the fact that those issues are out there should be proof enough of the fact that we need a select committee process. The industry said that it wanted to have a say. It offered to co-design this legislation with the Government, but it got a salute instead. The public wants to have its say. The public wants to say \u201CNo taxation without representation.\u201D We do not think that ramming this stuff through under urgency is fair representation. Then, of course, we have got technical problems around the fact that the commencement date is not specified and that we are overriding, with the stroke of a pen, law that has been painstakingly developed through multiple public processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIn summary, there are both very important substantive technology and policy problems, and there are significant process issues as well. This is not simply an extension of an existing agreed industry position; this is a new tax. This is a broken promise. This is desperate government. This is desperate government, because it does nothing to lift productivity, it does nothing to create jobs, and it does nothing to deliver a better future for New Zealanders. It is just a tax. Ask people in New Zealand\u2019s regions whether they think National has a plan for them. Chris Bishop, did you ask Northlanders? I think you did, and I think you got the answer, which was that Simon Bridges\u2019 bridges convinced nobody. They convinced nobody that National had a plan for the region, because 5 years of being ignored and then 5 weeks of random pork barrels\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ae23618f58b44759cd9b3d4087f0af3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224aaaf9c8f5d04055827e22d7892bb4a7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: So here we are, and you are rightly bringing me back to the point that this bill should be about regional New Zealand. Give regional New Zealand a say. Have a select committee process and call for submissions. Although we strongly support rural broadband, we do not support abrogating the parliamentary process in this way. We cannot support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7a05fe375da4171b61b64959896c352\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7a05fe375da4171b61b64959896c352\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to correct the record of the House for the voting during the Committee stage. It should have been 13 votes for the Green Party, and not 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce5c2a8905fd4778bc50c3e06eba5e7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce5c2a8905fd4778bc50c3e06eba5e7d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: This is for the Committee stage\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b50cde48ed5452fa6aeef34dd7078b1\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Since dinner\u2014since the dinner adjournment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d10544ee97594b87bd39c2b658e1207e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: For all Committee stages since dinner?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cc2475cb51147da81ec64cc26320c12\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226df3947f4abe4e2785e77c27f831f52b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: And the first reading?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d3f4a9fd3cf43a7a61b091d612ce100\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: No, just since the dinner adjournment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273a0cb87c5c04df29d08138581346549\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I will just check with the Clerk. Leave is sought for the Green Party to change its vote from\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efeabcd259894164a58f5eb3b23d1de5\u0022\u003EEugenie Sage\u003C/span\u003E: From 14 to 13.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d8a50111f5d4608acd1eecc703503d6\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: \u201414 votes to 13 votes in every vote cast since dinner. Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none. The record will be changed accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u002247504afc7a5e477ca12b9f3c98dff76d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247504afc7a5e477ca12b9f3c98dff76d\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E The telecommunications development levy, when we continue it with this bill, will provide the funding to provide support to the rural communities of New Zealand, because this Government works for all New Zealanders. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u002295773041273744d8a51443d2905afa90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295773041273744d8a51443d2905afa90\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E What is in a name? That which we call a rose would, by any other name, smell as sweet. Is it a levy? Is it a tax? Actually, who cares? Has Bill English broken his \u201Cno new taxes\u201D promise? Well, he put up GST, he put up the petrol tax, he has introduced an airport levy, he is introducing a capital gains tax, he has cut the paper boy rebate, and he has put a tax on private jets\u2014it does not actually matter whether he says he was not going to introduce any more taxes. He has extended and introduced new taxes left, right, and centre\u2014in fact, literally left, right, and centre if you think about the political spectrum. It just does not matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe relevant question is: what do we do about paying for the continuation of the Rural Broadband Initiative, and for these black spots? Earlier on in the debate I was trying to work out what the different objections were, and what the questions were about. I just want to acknowledge again the Minister for having taken a call and responded to some of those questions. I just want to reflect back on some of those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe first question was in relation to the press release from Spark about passing on prices. The Minister said that it cannot be justified as that would be double-charging consumers because it is already contained in the price. The Telecommunications Carriers Forum has a different view. It said that, actually, the industry has been absorbing those costs rather than passing them on, and so it would be new for the industry to pass them on. It is kind of unclear which of those views is correct. It becomes quite difficult, and I can fully appreciate why the Labour Party would like to have a proper select committee process so that we can get to the bottom of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe second question was about the quality of the connection and whether the money that has been spent so far\u2014the $300 million that has been spent so far\u2014was a good use of the money and whether it was producing the results. I am afraid that we did not get a good answer on that question; nor did we get a good answer\u2014or, in fact, any answer\u2014about the issue of evaluation and reporting on the effectiveness of the existing Rural Broadband Initiative. Tracey Martin raised the question of why it is up to the Greens and New Zealand First to do the Government\u2019s job for it. There are a bunch of questions here, and a Government bill about the quality of the spend. Where was the Government\u2019s response? We are not getting a response to a number of these questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThere was a related question that was about new technologies. Mr Cunliffe spoke very eloquently about that, and, again, I do not feel that that was addressed. We did have a question about whether companies would get two bites of the cherry. We received an unequivocal answer from the Minister on that, that they would not, and I am very pleased to hear it. That was the point of one of our Supplementary Order Papers, and so we feel that that has been answered, and I appreciate that from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe also asked why this legislation needs to be passed under urgency. Again, the Minister responded directly to that, saying that we cannot start negotiating, and there is such urgency to roll out the whole programme that we cannot wait for the full legislative process to go through this. I empathise with the Government\u2019s sense of urgency. As I said in my first or second reading speech, having travelled around the country over the last 10 weeks, in the rural areas in particular, the digital divide is exacerbating an existing social, educational, and economic divide. We have real urgency to get this out there, which is why the Green Party is inclined to support this bill, even though we would normally not support bills being progressed under urgency because of the lack of scrutiny that goes with passing legislation under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe asked a related question that was around why we are doing this now\u2014seeking funding while the policy design is being consulted upon. Again, I think that relates to the sense of urgency, so we were satisfied with that answer from the Minister. The question about competition\u2014and this was another Labour Party concern that I do not feel was sufficiently addressed\u2014was whether small companies and a broader range of companies will be able to participate in the programme, or whether it is just going to be the established players. So that one is still kind of up in the air. The ninth question was around what the Minister\u2019s response was to the two Supplementary Order Papers put forward, but I feel that that was answered, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESo some questions were answered; some were not. We are left, actually, with some discomfort about voting for this bill because there were a number of the key issues, we feel, the Government did not actually bother to try to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe also had the question of whether the legislation is constitutional, so it has been quite a surreal night. Who would have thought that a telecommunications funding bill would have involved the regent of Belgium and other constitutional arrangements? And there was the question of the Royal assent, which took up close to an hour and was sort of a fascinating piece that we got into on this bill. It has been quite a strange legislative process tonight. Strange enough, as I have said, because I felt like New Zealand First and the Green Party were kind of doing the Government\u2019s work for it, because we were not getting answers to those entirely valid questions that the Labour Party was raising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe will be voting for this bill, but we are disappointed that some of those questions have not been answered, including some of the really substantive questions about the quality of the spend of the money so far, and the possibility that we would be throwing good money after bad here. I did want to gently remind the Labour Party, which stood on principle tonight on the matter of urgency and said that it could not support such a weak legislative process, that only a couple of months ago it supported the Remuneration Authority (Members of Parliament Remuneration) Amendment Bill through the urgency process. This piece of legislation was passed not only without any of the normal legislative processes but it contained algebra that no one in the House could actually comprehend. At least we have some idea of what this bill will actually result in, which is the raising of $50 million a year for the next 3 years. That is, actually, a pretty simple proposition. That is easy enough to argue about, but the MPs\u2019 remuneration bill contained a formula that, literally, no one knew what they were passing as they were passing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EIt has been a fascinating evening. We will be supporting this piece of legislation because we do believe that the programme needs to continue, with a great deal of urgency, but we do have some discomfort and we will be looking to the Government to answer those questions that it did not bother to answer tonight. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1d317e968864a319a0431da73d41b7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1d317e968864a319a0431da73d41b7b\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Can I just allay the fears of the Green Party member James Shaw by saying that New Zealand First member Darroch Ball is a member of Mensa and that he actually understood the algebra in this bill\u2014so New Zealand First was well-informed when it voted, thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is supporting this bill because New Zealand First believes it should be supported. We would agree with Labour in some areas. We would agree with the Labour Party that it would be a good idea for the Commerce Commission to do an inquiry or a review of the $300 million spend. I disagree with Melissa Lee when she waved her hands wide and said that you have to stop everything in order to do a review. I remind Ms Lee of the digital literacy inquiry, which actually looked at the work of Network for Learning. It was done by the Education and Science Committee, under the chairmanship of Nikki Kaye, and that inquiry changed the direction of Network for Learning while it was still going. While it was still being developed, the inquiry identified that it was going in the wrong direction, and it shifted direction so that it was a much better provider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWe would also agree with the Labour Party on the need for local small to medium sized enterprises to be part of this roll-out and to be able to participate in the provision of the Rural Broadband Initiative. We are sitting here on 21 May, and it interests me that on 19 May the Warkworth Area Business Association put out this email to all its members. The title of this email is \u201CUltra-fast broadband improvements\u201D. Much has been made that the industry did not know that this funding was coming. Much has been made that the industry did not have an opportunity to be consulted. Again, I say that lobbyists for industries always have the telephone numbers of Ministers. I find it hard to believe that the industry did not call the Minister\u2019s office and have a conversation about this. The email goes on to say that on 12 March the Government announced that this funding was coming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI think it is pertinent to the bill that we are talking about\u2014and to the conversation that has been had about whether there has been consultation, about whether there has been a review, about whether there is going to be participation by the public, which is the other area that has been addressed\u2014that this email says: \u201CThe ultra-fast broadband 2 funding is intended for rural towns.\u201D It says: \u201CIn order to make an informed decision about how to allocate funding, central government has invited local authorities, including Auckland Council, to submit a registration of interest. This is an opportunity to communicate to central government any issue with broadband and the level of demand for better services in rural Auckland. We would like your help to make sure that we get as much accurate information to Government as possible.\u201D The questions they ask relate to a description of where you live, i.e. the boundary of your community; what your current internet service is like; what problems you have with your broadband connection; the extent of the problems; and what demand for broadband services is like in your community. They ask members to please provide other information around business information, and any other information that they want to provide to the register of interests for the funding for the broadband roll-out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThat is the Warkworth Area Business Association. That is a local group taking control and talking and sending directly to Government information around how this\u2014what we are talking about tonight; what will be funded\u2014is delivered. We take the Minister\u2019s word that the reason this needs to go through under urgency is that without the levy that has been there since 2011 and without it being secured in legislation until 2020 there is no way that the Minister can start the process of deciding how and where it will be spent. This is a process matter at the moment. We agree that sometimes process needs to be short-circuited. In this instance, this is a continuation of a levy that has been in place for several years, that was fully consulted on, and that the telecommunications companies knew was coming, and the levy is to continue to deliver what we know is needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EHowever, we do support many of the areas that the Labour Party has mentioned; we just do not support their call to try to stop this bill tonight. We have a member on the Commerce Committee. We would support a call from that committee to do a review or an inquiry and to actually have a go at making sure that up to this point we have been in the right direction\u2014how we could possibly, while the Minister is consulting the communities, have a look at this and make some bright decisions. Let us not change just for change\u2019s sake, but let us actually look at where we might be able to improve. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0bea75f020f4b31af34c7571e5b8953\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0bea75f020f4b31af34c7571e5b8953\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E We have made very good progress tonight on this bill. It provides excellent infrastructure for New Zealanders. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00223114a22c80824e3a8a6118ad757348f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223114a22c80824e3a8a6118ad757348f0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. Dr David Clark\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc9fc995656440958b5846551cfd09db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc9fc995656440958b5846551cfd09db\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak for the last time on the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill, a bill of broken promises. Labour will be opposing this bill. As many of my colleagues have outlined, there are many problems with it. We must say, first and foremost, it would have been much smarter for the Government to expose this to public scrutiny. The fact that this evening it has imposed on New Zealanders a tax that will be borne by businesses and households without allowing the public to have its say is shameful. There is no need for this rush, absolutely no need whatsoever. This obviation of the normal processes is a travesty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EOf course, we heard the Minister for Communications, Amy Adams, in her opening speech say that \u201Cthe industry will not need to put their prices up or explain to their customers why their bill is changing\u201D, and within the hour we had one of the major telecommunications companies saying that it would be putting up its prices as a consequence. And, of course, we know the reason why this is. It is because in that industry, planning is years ahead. Telecommunications companies plan years ahead for infrastructure developments, and so, of course\u2014of course\u2014they have taken into account the fact that the levy was supposed to run out. Of course, they have taken that into account in their planning and so they had built in what charges they thought necessary. And now they get slapped with another charge, which was unexpected, a tax on them that they can, and must, pass through to their customers. They are going to make their bills transparent so that we see when we use their services the extra dollar per month that that will be costing as a result of this change for each and every business or person connected to this service. That might not sound much to some people but to many business people struggling in the regions that extra dollar does matter\u2014it does matter. It is a marginal cost but it is a cost. Every marginal cost matters. It does become prohibitive for some people. That cost is on top of many other costs that this Government has put on top of small business. It has put up red tape left, right, and centre. It seems to have no heart for small business. We have heard of plenty of additional taxes: the paper boy tax in the last set of Budgets. We have had the additional child support\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212385e822bfc4d498863bff13355871a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba18176339f44833862f8b5c29b16187\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014expectations and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EBut coming back to this bill here, we have got in the departmental disclosure statement a clear yes as to whether this is in the nature of a tax. Yet we have the Deputy Prime Minister dancing on the head of a pin. It is a shame he cannot land an aircraft on the head of a pin like the last Labour Government did nine times in getting to surplus. We have him dancing on the head of a pin when his own department says that yes, this is a tax. It is one of three new taxes after this Government said it would introduce no new ones before the last election. InternetNZ, of course, called for a review. It said: \u201CWhy do we not look at it and see if this rural broadband money is being spent effectively?\u201D. There is $300 million being poured into this. It does not seem an unreasonable request but a Government that is out of touch might say \u201CNo, we will not have a review. We do not care that only 8,500 people have taken this up by our best estimate. We do not care that it has cost $7,000 a head for this particular initiative to be taken up, because we are the Government. We won the election and we do not care any more what the people think.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWell, that is a Government out of touch, I am afraid. It is a Government out of ideas. Introducing new taxes seems to see the big idea we are facing today. The reason, of course, we can see that this is being passed under urgency is because Government members are trying to hide their failure in rural New Zealand. They are embarrassed, at least, for their failures in rural New Zealand. Of course, I have seen in my own electorate the need to get a petition. A group has gone to the extent of having a parliamentary petition to get rural broadband. I encourage others who are experiencing the same difficulties around New Zealand to do the same, to approach their local MPs, and to get a petition set up that will be heard by Parliament, because this problem is costing hundreds of millions of dollars and the Government is wanting to be unaccountable for spending. This is a Government that does not care about taxpayer funds and that does not care about small business. It is a tragedy. It is a shame. I hope the next speaker, because I know he is sympathetic to the issues of small business, will take on some of these challenges as well. We have seen a Government that is prepared to break its promises on the surplus in the Budget, the biggest promise of all. It was central to the election campaign promise and it has broken it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c66f55a6a074474cb52602f6682dd532\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c66f55a6a074474cb52602f6682dd532\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I call David Seymour\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002279eb586a612f4a358d1886ed4850f73b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279eb586a612f4a358d1886ed4850f73b\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I had enormous hopes for the previous member\u2019s speech. I hoped to see a principled, detailed, economically literate, public policy - based rebuttal of the bill. Sadly\u2014sadly\u2014my hopes were misplaced. But I thought that in the interests of informing the House, I should show the member how somebody might have given such a rebuttal and might have critiqued the bill. The first question to ask about any public policy intervention or revenue-raising initiative is: where is the market failure? Why is the game theory outcome not Pareto optimal? You might look for an answer like that in the regulatory impact statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt is a sad commentary on the standard of regulatory impact statements in New Zealand, I am afraid to say, that they are not very strong. It seems the problem definition is mostly about why the current policy is not as big as we would like it to be. It even quotes political party websites in the regulatory impact statement. That is not the kind of problem definition and identification of market failure that one would like to see in a regulatory impact statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EOne might well argue that there is no public policy basis or intervention logic behind this bill. The Opposition could have done that, but, sadly, it did not. It might have raised the question of technological change. If I could indulge the House with a small personal anecdote, 15 years ago my flash uncle wired his entire house with ethernet, and we thought that was pretty cool and he thought that was pretty cool. Then along came something called Wi-Fi, and then we did not think he was so cool and neither did he. You might think that is a small personal anecdote, but I recently heard that larger organisations are capable of such mistakes. Indeed, the entire Tasman District Council recently\u2014as recently as 15 years ago, that is\u2014made a regulation that every house in its region should be wired with ethernet. That lasted for about 3 years and it was swallowed by the same fate. Anybody who wants to fund a rural broadband initiative through any kind of revenue source should be very wary that technological change is happening a lot faster than Government programmes and legislation, even legislation as fast as tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EHypothetically, if you did agree that there was a case for the public funding of telecommunications infrastructure, you might ask some questions like: to whom is the benefit and what is the most appropriate source of revenue to fund that benefit? It seems the principle is that it is current telecommunications users. Well, what we find in the regulatory impact statement is that one of the best rationales you can find is that we need to do this for people who do not have access to telecommunications services. So we are charging the people who are using the services on behalf of people who are not using them. That sounds to me like a public-good argument or a redistribution argument, and if you adopt the principle that you want to raise revenues in the ways that are least distortionate of behaviour, then you should use low-rate, broad-base taxes such as indirect taxes like GST. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENone the less, that was not the quality of argument that we heard, even from some of the most able members on the other side of the House. So I conclude with another thought, which is that even the best public policy relies upon political support to be sustainable. What this bill is really about is ensuring that the body politic of New Zealand is able to keep supporting the public policies under which it lives. That is why there is a naked, unashamed, redistributionist element in this bill, and perhaps in another time and another place and another electoral result, I might speak out about it a little bit more strongly. But seeing as those who can actually are unable to, apparently, for cognitive reasons, I will not either and will be supporting this bill. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1f45266ee694ef88742c400b4f7bb65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1f45266ee694ef88742c400b4f7bb65\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022bac8014b7a064fe28ed6f642439da4e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bac8014b7a064fe28ed6f642439da4e0\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E It is a sad indictment on the level of debate in this House from the National Party that that was one of the better contributions to this bill. I commend Mr Macindoe for getting up and at least telling the truth about their position on this bill. He did not say anything to support it because the grounds on which to support this piece of legislation are very thin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIt was with ultra-fast speed that the Minister for Communications was forced to eat her words from her first reading speech. I will, for the benefit of the House, remind the National Party what Amy Adams said in her first reading speech: \u201CThe industry will not need to put their prices up or explain to their customers why their bill is changing.\u201D Within the hour, not even 60 minutes had passed from those words leaving the Minister for Communication\u2019s mouth, Spark New Zealand issued a press release making a liar of the communications Minister. That press release says that now the Government has confirmed the levy/tax will continue rather than reduce as originally legislated for, it has put upward pressure on future costs and Spark will have to pass that cost through to its broadband and on-account mobile users. Not even an hour had passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWe had the Minister who said: \u201CNo, New Zealanders, don\u2019t worry, we\u2019ve got this sorted. We\u2019ll get this money from the telecommunications industry.\u201D And then the telecommunications industry said: \u201CWell, actually, Minister, we\u2019re going to get it from Kiwis.\u201D According to this press release from Spark, the average bill of Kiwis using broadband will go up by $1 a month. You can argue: \u201CHey, that might not be a lot of money.\u201D It certainly is not a lot of money for the people who support the National Party with all their big cheque books, but it certainly is to people on this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere needs to be some scrutiny around this piece of legislation as to the effectiveness of the expenditure for the first tranche of the Rural Broadband Initiative. Maybe Mr Seymour might like to join the Labour Party and other parties on the Commerce Committee to get an inquiry on the effectiveness of the Rural Broadband Initiative. I think Mr Seymour actually raised a very good point: is what we are doing the most effective use of the money? Is it the right technology? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWe may not agree with everything that Mr Seymour may want to look at, but he might want to join our initiative to get an inquiry into whether or not we are getting good value for money. I always thought that the ACT Party was the bastion of trying to make sure that every taxpayer dollar was spent well. But, no, no, no, not tonight\u2014not tonight. Three hundred million dollars was spent on the first tranche of the Rural Broadband Initiative. We want to know whether that money has been spent effectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EFrom that side of the House we heard, during the Committee stage at least, very few speeches. They are lions in their seats but lambs on their feet. They would not get up and take a call to say: \u201CWell, this is good spending of $300 million.\u201D At least David Seymour stood up and said: \u201CHey, is this money being spent effectively? Are we doing the right thing?\u201D. I look forward to Mr Seymour getting to the Commerce Committee\u2014a very good select committee\u2014and helping us get our inquiry over the line. I look forward to you coming to our meeting next Thursday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EFour hundred and fifty million dollars is not chump change; it is a lot of money. And $300 million has already been spent on the first tranche. There is concern in rural communities as to whether that expenditure has been effective to deliver what has been promised by this Government, and that is that 86 percent of rural people would get at least 5 megabits per second. There have been\u2014and I believe that the number is three or four; I think it is three\u2014rural communities come to our Commerce Committee and say: \u201CWell, Parliament, that hasn\u2019t been our experience. We have slower or ineffective broadband speeds in our area, and we were promised this.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWe thought it was a really good idea to see whether or not that first $300 million was spent effectively. I thought that the Government might think that too, but, no, we have already heard from the chair of the Commerce Committee that she is not interested in having an inquiry. Maybe we need just that one more vote. Maybe on Thursday morning at 10 o\u2019clock, which is roughly when we have our meetings, Mr Seymour, you might want to turn up and help us out. I am sure that you and your members do not want to see $450 million go down the drain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWe actually do want to make sure that the Rural Broadband Initiative is effective. We actually agree with the objectives of the Rural Broadband Initiative. Who would not? Isolated rural communities want to make sure that they are connected, not just for economic benefit; there are educational benefits and health benefits from the Rural Broadband Initiative. If we are going to spend more money, we want to make sure that that money has been spent effectively, and that simply has not been the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere has also been an argument from that side of the House\u2014not a very strong one\u2014that this will not affect the telecommunications industry. That is not necessarily the case, because the telecommunications industry is not very impressed with this Government. The industry is saying that this piece of legislation has been rushed through urgency. Geoff Thorn\u2014no stranger to us; he used to be the general manager of Parliamentary Service\u2014who is now the chief executive of the Telecommunications Carriers Forum\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226eb0f06bd037439699abf12fd6f52a20\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Take a call, Mr Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022462af3003227431680deb6db3c9fd5fe\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, take a call. Get up. You were here for the Committee stage, but I did not hear one peep out of Mr Bennett\u2014not one. All he can do is interject\u2014all he can do is interject. Well, just shush for a minute, Mr Bennett, and listen to what the telecommunications industry has got to say about your process\u2014slamming this through at 11 o\u2019clock at night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis bill has been introduced under urgency, and doing so avoids any public debate. Well, heaven forbid that we have public debate. Heaven forbid that we actually let the public have their say on this, seeing as they are going to be the ones who are paying for it\u2014a dollar every month. We cannot have the people coming in here. This is a proposal that has not been the subject of any consultation and that has avoided the usual scrutiny that would apply to Government spending. They go on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EFor the benefit of Mr Bennett, this bill extends a tax. That word \u201Ctax\u201D is mentioned four times in this press release, I must add, and that tax to date has not been explicitly recovered from consumers. However, the industry cannot continue to absorb ongoing costs of this magnitude. Translation: the telecommunications industry has absorbed these costs and is saying it cannot do that any more. As we saw from Spark, who is going to be paying now? Its customers\u2014its customers. The Government is furiously trying to spin: well, do not blame us; blame the telecommunications companies. Well, who is passing this legislation through in the dead of night? It is this Government\u2014it is this Government\u2014and there is no scrutiny. No members of the public can come and ask any questions, and this is the way the Government is doing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe Rural Broadband Initiative is a great thing, but if we are spending $450 million, we want to make sure we do it properly. Do not just throw the money out there, into the wind, and hope that everything is all right. If we are going to spend $300 million we want to make sure it is being done properly, and this piece of legislation allows us to collect $150 million more to roll out the second tranche. I think we should take a big, deep breath and have an inquiry to look at whether the first tranche worked, before you have $150 million more spent. It can be done, otherwise we might be wasting taxpayers\u2019 money. I know Mr Seymour hates that, so I look forward to seeing him on Thursday morning at the Commerce Committee. It might be your turn to bring the baking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277333e3c-5658-4149-9cad-262a0deed378\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdd792a7912346bc8e0c72fd8381160a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277333e3c-5658-4149-9cad-262a0deed378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdd792a7912346bc8e0c72fd8381160a\u0022\u003ETODD BARCLAY (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I can do no better than to echo the sentiments of the senior whip.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228d15c9f342e741b09563bafa26f64101\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 88\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 32\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022778064689eb44f0194f4571c35086ede\u0022\u003EKiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022550a10ab4c3045ed9ccde8e7a357e9c0\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022deac9a11986c4f8b89c0fc9f033cdbf4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022deac9a11986c4f8b89c0fc9f033cdbf4\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister of Revenue)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill be now read a first time. The bill proposes to remove the $1,000 KiwiSaver kick-start contribution paid to all new enrolees in the KiwiSaver scheme. The KiwiSaver scheme has been a very successful scheme, attracting new enrolees into the scheme. The scheme now boasts over 2.5 million members, but this has come at a cost to the Government and to the taxpayer, because for every one of those KiwiSaver accounts, in addition to the funding of the member tax credit, the Government has contributed $1,000 as an inducement to enrol.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EKiwiSaver was launched over 7 years ago in different circumstances. The original objective was to assist individuals who are not in a position to enjoy standards of living in retirement similar to those they enjoyed pre-retirement. However, the scheme subsidies had not been very well targeted at those individuals, and many have reallocated other savings. Today, in our post - financial crisis world, Kiwis are paying down household debt and successfully saving, with almost $30 billion in KiwiSaver. The incentive payment to join KiwiSaver is no longer necessary. Since KiwiSaver\u2019s launch the Government has paid in over $6 billion to KiwiSaver members\u2019 accounts, much of that through the kick-start incentive. The scheme is an expensive way of promoting savings among the target group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EA set of evaluation reports based on evidence progressively drawn together over the first 7 years of KiwiSaver\u2019s life has just been published by the Inland Revenue Department. It indicates that although KiwiSaver has achieved a number of its goals, it is continuing to have a relatively small effect in promoting additional savings, and a considerable fraction of subsidies go to those outside the likely target group. A priority for the Government is cutting back on low-value spending and restoring its balance sheet. It is estimated that removing the kick-start will save the Government over $500 million over the next 4 years. That is money that could more usefully be used elsewhere. Other features such as the annual member tax credit and the minimum employer contribution rate of 3 percent will continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe kick-start is currently paid following a 3-month wait period. The effect of this bill is to ensure that the 3-month wait period may start before 2 p.m. on 21 May 2015 but not after. In other words, if a new enrolee has begun the 3-month wait period just prior to the announcement, they will still be eligible for the incentive payment on or after 21 August 2015, as long as they meet all other relevant criteria. A person who becomes a KiwiSaver member after that date may not be eligible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe Government remains committed to KiwiSaver but needs to ensure that subsidies provide a prudent use of taxpayer funds. The proposed measures in this bill will help achieve that. I now commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u002238027c09a6444ccf967b02f548fff488\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238027c09a6444ccf967b02f548fff488\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E National has hit the panic button in its seventh Budget. It has failed to reach surplus, and it has failed to outline a plan. It is stealing from future generations, through this measure, by taking the $1,000 kick-start programme out of action. This is a Government that is going to ensure Kiwis miss out, that is going to ensure kids miss out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Government has said that it will increase benefits in this Budget, but it is giving with one hand and taking away with another. It is helping to lift the most vulnerable people\u2014sure\u2014and it should get some credit for that, but it should not have to come at the cost of taking down those who are just a few rungs higher on the ladder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that has broken promises before\u2014we know that. We have heard about the GST promise that John Key made\u2014that there would be no GST increases. Next thing, it is up to 15 percent. We have heard about the 40 percent economic growth target. He said that we want to grow the economy so that exports are 40 percent of it. Well, they are down to 30 percent now, and they are going backwards. We have heard about the promise to increase wages by $7,000 by the end of next year for ordinary workers. Well, we know that that has just been kicked out in this Budget by 3 years, to 2019. We also know\u2014biggest of all\u2014that this Government promised a surplus, which it has failed again to deliver. The one that it is projecting for next year is wafer-thin. It is less than a rounding error.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that has produced no surpluses in 7 years, after a Labour Government that produced nine surpluses in 9 years. This is a Government that is failing. This is a Government that has no vision and no plan for the future. The Government has broken its promises to grow jobs, to lift wages, and to not impose any new taxes. Cutting KiwiSaver will reduce savings at the very time when we need to increase them. We need long-term thinking, not short-term thinking. I am sure that Mr Bishop will try to argue that cutting the contributions to those who are starting to save for the first time is somehow a long-term plan. But the people at home will not be convinced of that; I do not believe that they will. They would not have signed up to it in the first place if they thought it was a bad idea. We know that already 2.5 million Kiwis have signed up to Labour\u2019s KiwiSaver programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Government cut the member contributions last time round. This Government halved the employer contributions in the last Budget in 2011, and we know that it has a plan to cut it back further. It is weighing up the options. How do we cut it further? In Australia they introduced a KiwiSaver-like scheme, shortly after the Labour Government introduced one here, in the 1970s, and they have kept that scheme. Australia now has $1.3 trillion in retirement savings. This KiwiSaver scheme is growing. It is a proud scheme, but it is only in its infancy, and the Government wants to cut it again. The Government has cut the superannuation fund contributions, and now it is cutting the KiwiSaver kick-start. It is a Government that is out of ideas, it is scrimping and saving, and it is costing middle-income Kiwis as it tries to prove that it can get to a surplus eventually, and it is failing. It is failing to do even that\u2014even to achieve its own biggest election promise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EHalf a million Kiwis\u2014that is 500,000 Kiwis\u2014will be deprived of the $1,000 KiwiSaver kick-start payment over the next 4 years. That is a shocking statistic. KiwiSaver is growing in popularity, and the number of people opting out is reducing over time. Many members of the House, I am sure, will have studied the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s evaluation of KiwiSaver, its final summary report from 2007 to 2014. The department examined KiwiSaver, and its estimate in the 2010 survey was that additionality\u2014i.e., extra savings on top of what people would ordinarily have saved\u2014was 36 percent. Then in 2013 the department said that had not significantly changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225047f65457ad49aab4e67fea1248e1df\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c925d9f4e5146fd876832d1f8cbbc2c\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: It is a fact. The Minister shakes his head. It is his department. He shakes his head. He is out of touch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is clear\u2014and the scheme is working. I know plenty of people who have signed up for the scheme because of the $1,000 kick-start. In fact, if the Government really believed that it had no effect it would not make this legislation retrospective. There is silence on the other side of the House. The Government would not make this legislation retrospective if it did not believe it worked. The Government has no answer to that. It cannot have it both ways. If the Government really believed it did not work, it would not make the legislation retrospective; it would allow people to sign up for it while the bill was being passed through the House. But Government members know in their heart of hearts that that is not true. That incentive is there, and it does encourage people to save, and it does encourage people to join the scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis cut is stealing from kids\u2019 pockets. It is robbing the savings of future generations. It is a short-sighted attempt to somehow plug the $1 billion hole in the Budget that has emerged in the last year. This is a Government with $88 billion in debt\u2014let us not forget. The Government pays about $10 million in interest a day\u2014$10 million in interest a day. This is a Government that is failing to manage the economy. It has already halved the member tax credit, in Budget 2011. It is cutting savings further. This is the kind of economic mismanagement that has seen the Government run up more debt than Muldoon did. Those Kiwis who will miss out will be at home, watching this. They will hear that they have missed out, and they will be sorry\u2014certainly the ones who voted for this Government will be sorry. This is not something that was talked about. These kinds of cuts were not talked about in the last election\u2014taking away half a million Kiwis\u2019 access to the $1,000 kick-start grant that comes with the KiwiSaver scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a country that has struggled with capital debt. We know that is a problem for this country\u2014having enough savings as a pool for investors to call upon to grow new businesses, and that pool of savings is essential if we wish to diversify the economy, and if we do not wish to be for ever dependent on dairy prices and on commodity price cycles. The dairy industry does what it can, and it contributes to our economy in good measure, but we actually need a number of other industries. We need clean industries. We need growing industries. We need innovative industries. Those industries need to be able to access savings so that they can grow. We need an economy that is diversified and that is sustainable so that New Zealanders can enjoy in the future the prosperity that they enjoy now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ECutting savings is not a vision. Yet that is the vision that this Government has come up with. It has failed the test it has set itself to achieve surplus, and now it is trying to plug the hole by cutting savings. That will not do. It is retrospective and it is unfair. Good on those Kiwis who have already accessed it, but think about the ones who have not. I say to those people at home who are watching this late at night\u2014as we pass this legislation under urgency because the Government knows that if it did not pass it retrospectively and quickly there would be outrage\u2014if your colleagues join KiwiSaver on Wednesday and you at home send in the form today, they can join the scheme and get a thousand bucks but you cannot. That is the change that this Government is bringing in. It has chopped the member tax credit, and it is now chopping the $1,000 kick-start payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is out of ideas and that is trying to fill a hole. It will claim that it will not have an effect on enrolment rates. If it really believes that, it would not make the changes retrospective. There is a Supplementary Order Paper that suggests that the date be pushed out, and I challenge the Minister of Revenue, if he really believes that it will not have an effect, to adopt that Supplementary Order Paper and to let people have that $1,000 if they want to sign up in the next wee while, but I am pretty sure that he will not. He knows in his heart of hearts that that 36 percent figure from the Inland Revenue Department\u2014that \u201Cadditionality\u201D, the additional savings that this scheme has enabled\u2014is a number that is real.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI will read from the Inland Revenue Department report here, where it says that using a flow measure of savings, the estimated level of \u201Cadditionality\u201D rather than substituting from other forms of saving was 36 percent. The main reason that people join the scheme is that it is \u201Can easy way to save\u201D\u2014well, that is not rocket science. \u201CThe second reason was the contributions from the Crown and their employer.\u201D These are incentives, and if they believe in economics they will believe that incentives matter. \u201CThere is likely to be an interaction [effect] between these two reasons with the contributions also making it easy to save more.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThose are the key findings from a report that this Government is ignoring. Instead, it is ensuring that half a million Kiwis will be deprived of the $1,000 KiwiSaver kick-start payment over the next 4 years, and this is a disgrace. Labour\u2019s policy is to restart this programme. We would not do such a thing; we would not be so mean to the kids of the future. This retrospective legislation is robbing future savings in a short-sighted attempt to pay for the $1 billion Budget black hole that the Government has dug. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002208db66c040cc4ec0a2c01b00b21232b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208db66c040cc4ec0a2c01b00b21232b8\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E What a great week. This Budget has consigned the Labour Party to the irrelevancy that it deserves. This is a Budget for all New Zealanders, which shows a Government that is committed to New Zealanders in the most difficult of times. It is the first time in 43 years that core benefit rates have been increased. The National Government has delivered for all New Zealanders at the most difficult of times, and this KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill is part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ELook at the comparison with Australia\u2019s Budget the week before. Their deficit is $41.1 billion; our deficit is $684 million. GDP growth in Australia is under 3 percent; in New Zealand it is over 3 percent. As for net migration, for the first time, New Zealanders are coming home and staying home. The unemployment rate is over 6 percent in Australia, and under 6 percent here. New Zealand is doing well and it is doing well because we are making good decisions, like this bill does, which deliver for all New Zealanders in the right way. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00226b418033138645efa6c7d08a0baf9f4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b418033138645efa6c7d08a0baf9f4b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We have got a Minister of Finance who cannot merely not balance a Budget\u2014seven deficit Budgets in a row\u2014but he cannot address the long-term challenges of the economy. The greatest failure of the Minister of Finance and his offsider Steven Joyce is that after 7 years in Government the fundamental indicators of this economy are still going backwards. We have had reports from the likes of Paul Glass at Devon Funds Management in the New Zealand Herald recently, showing how real, per capita GDP, when you strip out Christchurch, has been increasing at less than 1 percent per annum. So when you take out the effect of Christchurch and the effect of the huge, rapid increase in population caused by immigration, real growth is less than 1 percent per annum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe export target is trashed. The export target was to increase exports from 30 percent to 40 percent of GDP. This year exports have been 27.9 percent of GDP\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5a8c8e6e9ac4d1da9b8a4e82159f83b\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b5ef993eb5d45d2a4e154d0521f57ad\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u201427.9 percent\u2014and next year they are predicted to be 26.4 percent of GDP, and they do not get over 27 percent of GDP until the end of the forecast period. So much for the target of growing exports as a percentage of the economy!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of New Zealand\u2019s net liabilities to the rest of the world as a percentage of the economy, as a consequence, they keep growing. New Zealand\u2019s net international liabilities are currently about 69 percent of GDP. They grow every year from here on to 75 percent of GDP. When you have got long-term problems like that, you do not reduce your savings because the savings are the key to investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ELet us look at a bit of history here. When KiwiSaver was first planned, John Key said this\u2014this is his release on 24 August 2006\u2014and this is confirmation that National was right all along: \u201CThe scheme\u2019s initial design lacked the incentives needed for people to change their savings behaviour.\u201D Well, we have heard from Dr Clark about how the scheme has increased savings, but now we have got National reducing the incentives that John Key said then were inadequate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat has this Government done so far? First off, on 9 December 2008 this Government decreased the minimum contribution rate for members from 4 percent to 2 percent. John Key had already criticised it for being too low at 2 percent, as it happens. Then on 1 April 2009 the National Government cut the member fee subsidy of $40 per annum. Then the third thing it did was to change the compulsory employer contribution and capped that at 2 percent as well. So it cut the employer contribution. Next, it took away the tax credit that applied to the employer contribution. That was cut No. 4. The fifth thing it did was to reduce the member tax credit. It halved it from $1,042 to $520 per annum. Then the sixth thing it did was to change the taxation treatment of the employer contribution, to the detriment of savers. The seventh thing it did, having cut the contribution rate, was to increase it from 2 percent to 3 percent, so it reversed its reversal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow we have got it doing away with the $1,000 kick-start contribution. How does this work in practice? The Government says that this is going to save $500 million, and it will. It is removing $500 million of incentives for the scheme. What is the effect of this? I will give you a real example of this. This is the example of my daughter. She is in a middle-class family, she is not hard-up, she is a 15-year-old, and she has got a job working in a cafe as a waitress. She gets a $1,000 kick-start payment because she signed up recently, and she adds to her savings by about $2 or $3 a week, and she follows that. If you are a young person, and you are starting at $2 or $3 a week, and after the first few months you have got less than 20 bucks, it seems like nothing\u2014it seems like nothing. If you are a part-time worker, as most young people are when they first enter the workforce, and you are saying that you want to encourage them to get a savings habit for a lifetime, and they are saving at $2 or $3 per week, it really seems like nothing for the first few years. But because of the incentives in the scheme currently, she sees a balance of $1,002, and then $1,004, and then $1,006, and she feels really successful and that she is embarking on a savings pattern that will see her right for life. And it will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EEveryone else who is in that situation will be so much better off when they get to the age of retirement if they have started to save. But now a lot of those kids, instead of having $1,000, which will grow by a small amount every month or every week that they get paid, are going to have only that small amount. This is stealing from the next generation in order to get to a make-believe surplus. That is what this is\u2014[Interruption] It is. This is in the face of dropping exports, rising international debt, and the failure of the Government to make its own targets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022153180aaa96d43719ecd1410f037638c\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Why wasn\u2019t the speech yesterday as good as this one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286f437f8e2b54c269733028382772421\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was better than this. It was better than this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe record of the Government in every area of superannuation, and the record of the Government in savings and superannuation, is worse on every front. Do you know that it canned contributions to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund\u2014the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, which Bill English, when it was set up, said was a dog. Those are the exact words he used, only to be embarrassed last year at the 10th anniversary when he turned up and celebrated it as being one of the best sovereign wealth funds in the country\u2014in the world, in the world. It is the only one in the country of any significance, but it is one of the best ones in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EDo you know what happened in the meantime? In the meantime, the Government ceased contributions in 2010 at a time when the world\u2019s interest rates were at the lowest that they had been in many generations. It said: \u201CWe are not going to incur that small amount of Crown debt at historically low interest rates to invest.\u201D Well, what has happened to the superannuation fund since? Well, you know, the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation estimate it\u2014this is not controversial\u2014and show their rates of return every year, and they show how much would be in the fund if the Government had made these contributions. The capital contribution is $16.3 billion worse\u2014New Zealand is $16.3 billion worse off\u2014than if it had contributed to the scheme as it was meant to do. On every front, the Government gets it wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThen members on the Government side pretend that they are good managers of the economy. Why did they get cleaned out in Northland? Why did they get cleaned out in Northland? It is because the people know that that is just rubbish. That is rubbish. Exports as a percentage of GDP are down. They have got no long-term plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EA good Government builds a country. Everywhere you look National cannot build a country. It cannot build a country metaphorically; nor can it build a country physically. It does not know how to build houses, and it does not know how to build an economy. National tears away at the foundations of future growth. National did eventually get to the point\u2014and the Minister was good enough to say this in his introduction\u2014of saying that KiwiSaver is a good scheme that it still believes in; just not enough to keep it working properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis sort of short-termism is awful: no solutions, despite the fact that National\u2019s own Budget documents released just this week show exports dropping this year and next, never getting much over 27 percent, never hitting 28 percent of GDP to the end of the forecast period. Look at those members. They are quiet now. They know that they have not met their target of raising exports to 40 percent. It is a failing Government: no ideas on exports\u2014no ideas on exports. Debt is rising. New Zealand has got high international liabilities, and yet those keep rising too because we do not cover the costs of our imports and our interest bill and our outgoings for dividends through the value of our exports and our overseas earnings. As long as we have got a Government that will not invest in production, that trend will continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002221573a1db99f4197855e37321c868ecf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221573a1db99f4197855e37321c868ecf\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Two people in the Labour Party have been very prominent in the debate so far on the Budget legislation\u2014David Parker and David Cunliffe\u2014and we wonder why that is. The Leader of the Opposition gave the worst Budget reply speech this House has seen for many a year, and Cunliffe and Parker are doing the numbers, and we know on this side of the House that the Labour Party is in disarray tonight because of the good Budget being promoted by this Government. I was meant to be at a Shihad concert tonight in Auckland. Sadly, I am in the Chamber but I do have the call, and it is good to see you again, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party wants to say \u201Cgimme, gimme\u201D to the $1,000 kick-start for KiwiSaver, but, actually, on this side of the House we think it is a \u201Cnice to have\u201D. When 2.5 million have signed up for KiwiSaver already, in today\u2019s economic climate it is a \u201Cnice to have\u201D but it is not necessary. I will tell you what is necessary. What is necessary is to raise benefits for the first time in 43 years. Was it not interesting during the debate on the Budget, when John Key announced that it was a National Government that was raising benefits for the poorest and the most hard up in our society? The silence and the looks on the faces of members on the Opposition benches were priceless, because it is only the National Government that is delivering for those most in need in our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022256a554a52bc4801bf5672676abf3486\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sorry to interrupt the member. I appreciate that it has been a somewhat wide-ranging debate so far, but in my contribution, when I talked about those benefits I linked them to the cuts in this bill. Is that what the member is doing, or is he really off topic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4329900f450464bbe785f47ea706686\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I point out that it has been a very wide-ranging debate, and Mr Parker\u2019s speech was far more wide ranging than my speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4203cfdb65d4e5cba50c57757340597\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not need any more advice on this. It is robust, it is late at night; some people will think we are clowns for still being here. In actual fact, we are having a bit of fun. It has been wide ranging. The member himself uses wide-ranging interjections, to the extent I was considering bringing my own earmuffs. I will monitor this very closely. Mr Bishop should continue but stick to the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219d2a05c7feb44e3ab1bc9c25debe0f0\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: At the risk of never being allowed to speak in the House ever again, all I would like to say in closing is that I commend the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0cce9b1a90f43b7ad989789bad4fc59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0cce9b1a90f43b7ad989789bad4fc59\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Green Party to speak on the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill. We will be opposing this bill. This bill is one of five pieces of legislation introduced under urgency to give effect to particular elements of yesterday\u2019s Budget\u2014and what a Budget! What a Budget! Billed as a hardship Budget it included\u2014let us be gracious here\u2014a $25 a week benefit increase for families with children, which we applaud; a Working for Families increase, which we applaud; and an increase in childcare assistance. After 7 years in Government, National has finally realised that it can no longer ignore increasing public alarm at the broadening and deepening of child poverty rates in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWhen I was campaigning in Wellington Central in 2011 and going to the meet the candidates evenings, I would talk about the 250,000 children living in poverty. I kind of got that sort of blank look you get when you know that people do not really know what you are talking about. Three years later in 2014, when I was campaigning to the same people in the same halls around Wellington Central, and I was talking about the 275,000 children who were living in poverty, I got absolute recognition and nodding heads. People really knew it was an issue, and I will tell you why. It is because for the intervening 3 years, that is what we campaigned on. That is what we talked about. We never shut up about it and a huge range of civil society organisations from Barnados, Unicef, Save the Children, and others have made child poverty the political issue that it deserves to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESo we are going to claim some credit for the Budget\u2014for actually making it a political issue, for getting child poverty up on the agenda to the point that the Government has had to listen. It is great to see this Government adopt this as an issue, even if it is a \u201Cweak tea, just might work, maybe\u201D kind of approach. If you want the real thing, then in 2017 I recommend you vote for the Green Party, because we have been championing this cause for years and years and years. National has done what it has done not because it wanted to but because it had to, because it became such an important issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESo I come to the bill at hand\u2014what does the bill do? It removes the $1,000 KiwiSaver kick-start contribution, making it effective from the delivery of the Budget yesterday. The Government\u2019s argument for this is to achieve fiscal savings and improve the value for money of the KiwiSaver scheme by lowering the headline cost. OK, that is a fair enough objective, but, as has already been remarked on tonight, this is a wildly successful scheme. About 15,000 people a month sign up for KiwiSaver, and they do so in large part because of the incentive scheme that is in place. That sign-up rate has slowed down not because the incentive is not working but because the rates of adoption are getting to saturation point. More than half of the eligible population is now a member of KiwiSaver, but we also know that the group hardest to get to are the most disadvantaged, right? These are people at the bottom end of the scale, and these are the people who need the incentive more than anything. So although we understand that the Government wants to pay for the extensions to benefits that it described yesterday, it is taking that money out of KiwiSaver and essentially moving it around in the same pot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ELet us take a little bit of a closer look at some of the other things that happened in yesterday\u2019s Budget. The jobseeker support and emergency benefit were down 5.7 percent. Supported living payment was down 1.2 percent. The sole parent support was down 1.5 percent. The accommodation assistance was down 0.8 percent. The hardship assistance was down 1 percent\u2014and this, one of the most successful schemes that we have to address poverty in this country, is losing the main incentive to get people into the scheme. It is a \u201CPeter and Paul Budget\u201D. We are taking money from one and moving it around, largely, the same group of people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWhat we are proposing later on in this debate is putting in a Supplementary Order Paper, the intention of which is to keep the $1,000 kick-start payment for people who have a community services card. What we are suggesting is that we can meet the Government halfway. We are saying: \u201COK, we understand that you want to eliminate what you see as a middle-class subsidy. You want to help to cut the costs of what is a pretty expensive scheme. We understand that. But if you really believe that yesterday was a hardship Budget that was designed to reach out to the most vulnerable people, then support our Supplementary Order Paper to retain the $1,000 kick-start for people who are on a community services card.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWhy a community services card? Because that is the easiest, simplest way to implement a proxy for people on low incomes. It does catch a wide array of income bands, but we believe that it is the simplest, best way to retain it for the people who need it the most, who actually need that incentive the most. We also know that the overall cost of that to the Government will not be that great because it is adoption at the lowest end, which is the hardest to get. We think that if you keep the incentive in place for the people who are at the low end, you are going to continue to keep it for that vulnerable group. And because we know that without the element of compulsion, rates of adoption will be reasonably low. The overall headline costs to the Government will not be nearly as great as they would be if you kept the overall scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EOur preference, of course, is to retain the overall scheme. In fact, Metiria Turei only a week ago launched a proposal for a kids KiwiSaver scheme, which would also ensure that the most vulnerable children in society had a nest egg of up to $12,000 by the time they got to the age of 18, which they could use for tertiary education or for a house deposit or similar purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EGiven that the Government has the numbers to pass this bill and to remove the $1,000 kick-start contribution from KiwiSaver in its entirety, what we are proposing to do is to limit the harm of that and to support the Government\u2019s notion of yesterday\u2019s hardship Budget by retaining the kick-start contribution for people who have a community services card. We believe that that will not be as expensive for the Government. We believe that that will be in line with the Government\u2019s intentions yesterday of producing a Budget that is orientated at the poorest in society, and it keeps in place the principles of what has been a wildly successful scheme. We do hope that the Government supports us on that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u00227ed7e6a491884d2ba578da9af736d4ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ed7e6a491884d2ba578da9af736d4ef\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E All this Budget did was remind me of the movie Groundhog Day. It was the same old promises and the same old apathetic thinking that we have come to expect from this Government. This is the same Budget we have seen for the last 7 years. I believe\u2014I genuinely believe this\u2014that the former National leaders who ran this country in their time are turning in their graves right now. Although those former leaders rose and fell on their principles and on what they believed in\u2014what they believed in\u2014this Prime Minister plays the politics of focus groups and plays superficial lip-service to what are critical issues in New Zealand. He is doing all he can to appease the masses. He compromises what was once, a very long time ago, actually, a great party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EYet again we were promised a surplus. When the Rt Hon Winston Peters was speaking earlier yesterday, I put it to some of the backbench National MPs that the finance Minister will never actually reach a surplus during his time serving in that role. I made the challenge, and what was the answer? Well, it was quite similar to now. I was expecting more of a response. Those National MPs went quiet. They went very silent. The derogatory shouting evaporated. It became a very quiet House to be in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThis bill, the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill, is a simple one technically, but the repercussions of it are quite significant, and they will have huge consequences into the future. Without doubt, this country will be undermined by yet another short-sighted decision, supposedly to save on the bottom line in the moment. We are saving on the bottom line in the moment. What confused a few people who were listening yesterday, and I was one of them, was that in Mr English\u2019s speech\u2014[Interruption] I will get to that, Mr Seymour. In Mr English\u2019s speech in the House he spoke of how providing an annual contribution of $521 per year and a kick-start of $1,000 for new members would\u2014and I quote for the members opposite\u2014\u201Cprovide a strong reason to join KiwiSaver.\u201D \u201CYes, fair enough,\u201D I said, \u201CI couldn\u2019t agree more.\u201D But then in his very next breath, the Minister makes the statement: \u201CRemoving the kick-start payment \u2026 [will have] little or no effect on the number of people expected to join the scheme.\u201D Which statement does the Minister stand by? Which one is true? They completely contradict one another. Let me tell you, he should stand by the first statement because the second is patently wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EAs a lecturer in economics, I would like to take the opportunity just to point out a few facts that Mr Seymour may have missed when he used the Coase theorem to debate in the House earlier tonight. Coase said himself that, actually, it was not really his theory at all. But more apt for this night\u2019s discussion was that he said that his theory\u2014like the ACT Party itself\u2014actually bears no resemblance to reality and cannot be used in reality, and that it is an economic theory that cannot be used in that way. What I would tell my students, more specifically, is that if we undertake an action, we must consider its consequences. What consequences is this party hoping to achieve when it looks to remove the kick-start contribution from the KiwiSaver savings scheme of everyday New Zealanders? What is it that it is hoping to achieve? What it is doing is robbing from the next generation. Why are we robbing from the next generation? What is the justification? As far as I can see, probably the only justifiable reason in their minds is to try to reach that mythical surplus, which, like Groundhog Day, never changes year after year. Promises are made and promises are broken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe Minister actually spoke so eloquently in his speech about spending wisely in order to generate significant long-term savings in the future, and I will quote him: \u201CIts social investment approach\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a16a42476ce461aaaf0e1b84972ca5e\u0022\u003EDr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I was reluctant to raise this point of order, but I am having trouble hearing the speaker. We are not having contributions to the debate from members opposite, but what we are having is a raucous racket that is only bringing this House into disrepute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf3c17506742450bb54e031550c46cbc\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The point is very well made. The members on my right should tone it down a bit. Carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfa87a7bef1a41428598e2d3cf17ce05\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: I was quoting from the Minister: \u201CIts social investment approach, which is about targeted, evidence-based investment to secure better long-term results for the most vulnerable New Zealanders. We\u2019re willing to pay a bit more up front,\u201D he said, \u201Cto get real, sustainable change, and in doing so we can generate significant long-term savings for the Crown.\u201D It is pretty infallible logic, but it is not being applied in this case. Why is that logic good in one circumstance but not good in this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EFor decades, New Zealand First and those with common sense have been talking about the benefits to the individual and to the country of saving. Why? Because, as was debated in the House just several weeks back, we were told by this very Government how wonderful the Cullen fund was, for example, and how the asset of this Government was growing and circling that wonderful $30 billion mark. That kind of growth and those kinds of sums\u2014well ahead of projections, actually\u2014are what a small country like this needs to help our people. This provides a financial stability and a confidence as we move forward with proportionately more New Zealanders moving into retirement. That large sum of money is working for the people of New Zealand. The KiwiSaver funds that are invested create so much wealth within New Zealand. The Minister is simply\u2014as has been said so often tonight\u2014robbing Peter to pay Paul. Well, actually, so he thinks. It is not as simple as that. Although a few balance sheets today may be changed around, what he is doing is robbing from future generations to attain this mythical Budget surplus, and he is removing a huge, huge driver in the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe point I make to this House today is that this is a disincentive. It is plain and simple. It was noted earlier that the Prime Minister himself, at the inception of this wonderful scheme, said there were not enough incentives in the programme and that New Zealanders needed more to get involved. New Zealand First argues that the Government is giving away too much. National will argue that it costs too much. The Government said that it has spent $2.5 billion on this scheme since its inception and that removing this initial lump-sum contribution will save approximately $120 million a year. That is over only the next 4 years, actually. As the fund reaches a critical mass, in terms of the people subscribing, contributions will decline fairly rapidly over time. So these minuscule savings are in the now and, actually, do not go on for much longer. We are robbing billions of dollars in supplementary retirement income from our next generation. This small cut has a giant multiplier effect, which has not been taken into account; and if it has, it has been ignored. New Zealand First cannot support such short-sighted change that saves next to nothing today but costs so very much for our future generations tomorrow. It is an incalculable potential that the growing pool of wealth could have contributed to the New Zealand economy, as investors sought to grow their returns. New Zealand First does not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00224857b3c12175490292ff3f902e1239da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224857b3c12175490292ff3f902e1239da\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E It is easy to see why the members on the other side of the House are so glum. They are so glum after yesterday\u2019s Budget because there are tens of thousands of families across the country who are going to benefit from the package this Government has put together. The half a billion dollars of savings through this bill will enable us to deliver $790 million of funding to the children in this country who are most in need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI can tell those members that there are families and there are parents in this country who are saying: \u201CI would rather have $25 a week in my pocket now, than $1,000 that can be used in 30, 40, or 50 years\u2019 time.\u201D When we consider the Budget and we consider what New Zealanders need right now, what they need right now is family support for those in hardship. It might cost half a billion dollars in savings to do this, but ultimately there are 190,000 children who will be better off through these changes and those members need to realise this. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022054c7411c61841e68a80785f01bedf2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022054c7411c61841e68a80785f01bedf2f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A 5-minute call\u2014Jan Logie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00222c4aa902adc1470c87932a513964bc89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c4aa902adc1470c87932a513964bc89\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am a little bit at a loss as to whether it is even worth standing up to speak when all I can hear from that side of the House is a barrage of laughter and heckling, and a round of applause for a speech that I think took less than a minute defending a policy that I think is actually indefensible. The last speaker, Jami-Lee Ross, stood up and tried to tell this House that the Government is being beneficent by taking half a billion dollars from some, including very low-income people, in this country who otherwise would have no savings whatsoever and are trying to survive and feed their kids while it gave tax cuts to the wealthiest people not that long ago and increased taxes by increasing GST on every New Zealander. This was not: \u201CTake from here\u2014this is the only place we can take it from to be able to give to this group.\u201D There are other places. The Government could be more creative, but it has not been. It has gone for the very easy option. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI will say\u2014and I have said it before\u2014that when the economy is not working for everyone, it is not working. We know this economy is not working when a quarter of a million children in this country are in poverty and when a measure, which the Government is so proud of, purporting to be $25 a week will not in fact be $25 a week in the hand for beneficiary families because they will be losing it through accommodation cuts and money being taken off in health costs and other abatements. So the Government is giving with one hand, saying it is being so generous, while it is taking with the other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI want to talk a little bit about inequality, which is a real problem in this country. People in New Zealand are increasingly concerned about it. There are two types of inequality. It is a basic thing. There is inequality in relation to income, and then there is inequality in relation to wealth. Income is pretty easy to understand. Wealth is something we do not talk about as much, but in New Zealand, the last survey that we\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279ac5e8b22d74e5a8362dc64af114c3a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! If members want to maintain a discussion, can they go to the lobbies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbd1e84985ad4153b610d8a52c7a35a4\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I do not think they care. I do not think they care what other people think. I think they are just so pleased and proud of themselves for taking this money away from people that they do not need to listen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIn 2003 and 2004 the top 10 percent of New Zealanders owned 51.8 percent of the net wealth of all households in New Zealand. Those people in that category averaged about $835,000 worth of wealth each. The top 1 percent had 16.4 percent of the wealth in this country and averaged about $2.6 million each in their wealth, and yet the bottom 20 percent of New Zealanders had zero or little wealth, and some were in debt. This policy, which provided $1,000 in savings for people, may have been the only wealth they had\u2014the only chance they had to have some savings. That has been taken away by this Government. It will have a compounding effect on inequality in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe Government is saying: \u201CWe can\u2019t. We\u2019ve got no choices if we\u2019re going to give $25 a week to people who have children who are dying through income-related poverty.\u201D I would remind this House and members on that side that the wealth of the richest person in New Zealand is worth $7 billion, while 20 percent of this country have zero or little wealth, and many of them are in debt. This is at the heart of what this bill is about\u2014the Government contribution to KiwiSaver enables some people to actually get some savings. We know that KiwiSaver can contribute to increasing inequality, because people who are earning the most will get the most from their employer contributions, and therefore they are able to go ahead, and their wealth will breed more wealth, and it grows. However, for the people on the lowest incomes who are not able to afford those weekly contributions to KiwiSaver, their wealth, or lack of wealth, will stay there. This bill does not help inequality in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3d873ad60a64bc6a256826572e4841b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3d873ad60a64bc6a256826572e4841b\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A 5-minute call\u2014David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022275a2962d2fb49858c2bf71895dbef0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022275a2962d2fb49858c2bf71895dbef0b\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I greatly enjoyed listening to the contribution of Fletcher Tabuteau. He told us that he was a lecturer in economics. Between you and me, I think he has been telling a few bedtime stories. His declaration also reminded me of a quote by Margaret Thatcher: \u201CIf you have to tell them that you are a lady, maybe you are not.\u201D If you want to quote economists, then maybe we should start with the wonderful Henry Hazlitt, who said that the good economist looks at the long term and an average for all groups; the bad economist looks only at the short term for some. When we talk about this shift in resources within the Budget, we are reminded of another thing that Fletcher Tabuteau said. He said it was a \u201CPeter and Paul Budget\u201D, taking money from one person and giving it to another. Well, I hate to tell you, but that is what Budgets are about. If everyone was just going to keep the money that they already had, we would not need to do any of this. We could just keep our own money and not have a Budget. But I know that members are very eager to get home, so I will be as short as I can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe fact is, that what this Budget has done is take money out of middle-class welfare\u20142.5 million New Zealanders; $2.5 billion\u2014into savings and put it into another form of investment\u2014that is, investment in human capital, the most important investment that any country can make in the long term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cad3cd3d5604e7f9aa42b20b64db02c\u0022\u003EClayton Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Are you getting a sore neck from all this bobbing around?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b428697f4f7493988c7e143c0f0f751\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe just wait your turn. Oh, wait, you have had your turn, and it was not very good, was it? The fact of the matter is there is a real problem with this policy, and I am sorry to disappoint members to my immediate left, but this Government has shown tremendous courage in removing a middle-class welfare transfer. Would it not be nice\u2014would it not be nice\u2014if this Government could show the same courage when it comes to superannuation? Because the benefit that so many older generations got, it is more than happy to take it away. It is more than happy to take it away from younger New Zealanders, those who might have been enrolling for KiwiSaver in the future. It is more than happy to do that, but it will not bite the bullet when it comes to the future liabilities for New Zealand superannuation, which those same young people will now have to pay. This is the same $1,000 that, not so long ago, National wanted young people to put into the same housing market that the Reserve Bank Governor is doing everything he can to deflate because he says that it is dangerous. So this cuts both ways. It is an admirable policy. It is an economically literate policy, unlike what I hear from my right. It is a policy that I will be supporting. However, would it not be nice if this Government had a little bit more of a long-term view and was a little bit more prepared to look into the future, confront the challenges that this country faces, and take on long-term superannuation reform? Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022d528d6a85c1947fab372bd43cdce369e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d528d6a85c1947fab372bd43cdce369e\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E What a wonderful night to be here, is it not? That was a fabulous speech. Unfortunately, it was slightly confusing at points, but it was a great start. And that lesson on economics, I have just so much enjoyed that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAll I want to say tonight is that I think that we should be celebrating that 2.5 million\u20142.5 million\u2014people have joined KiwiSaver and got their $1,000. They have got success, but everyone still gets the $521 every year and, through our generous home loan package, they can still join up and enjoy and go forward and buy houses. I believe that this is a good thing, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022962734dc9420484fbe35837bd08d96ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022962734dc9420484fbe35837bd08d96ad\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted, at this peak listening time, to have the opportunity to speak in opposition to the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill. This bill is clearly the result of the panic that Bill English went into when he got into his final preparation for the Budget and realised that there was going to be, yet again, for the seventh year in a row, no surplus. He did everything he could to try to get some money together. Some of those measures were understandable; some of them I feel so strongly opposed to that I will be putting my vote against the bill\u2014and this is included in the one that we are debating now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EFor many people, they will never have the opportunity to have $1,000 in their savings account, and it is sickening, actually, to listen to members opposite who earn $150,000 a year\u2014and all that they have done for the last 3 days is stand up and say \u201CI move that the question be now put.\u201D For that, they earn $150,000 a year\u2014and additional expenses on top of that, of course. And yet when we leave tonight, we will have people come in and clean our offices who earn less than $15 an hour and who are expected to keep their families on that sort of income. For those people, who work as hard or harder than every member of Parliament, and who have had the opportunity to have $1,000 put into their savings accounts once they start contributing the little bit of money that they have\u2014and some of them do not have it to spare; they have had to cut something in order to put money into their KiwiSaver accounts\u2014to have that $1,000 taken away from them, and, even more galling, to have the members of the National Party laugh and say that that is a good thing is, I think, wrong. I do not agree with it as policy. I think it lacks vision, it lacks compassion, and it lacks any empathy at all in understanding how many members of our society have that inability to save for their future. When you are on $150,000 a year, you just take it for granted, but if you are on $14 or $15 an hour, you are not able to put that money aside for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIt is a sort of vision that we should have for older New Zealanders. It is a sort of vision that we should have. We would like to see older New Zealanders being able to retire and have security in their income, and more than just the basic superannuation. We have got a better superannuation scheme in New Zealand than in many other countries, but a married couple still gets only 66 percent of the average wage as their total superannuation income. I would challenge members opposite to try to live on that without any other savings to fall back on. For day-to-day living, it is OK, except for when something goes wrong, when your roof needs replacing, when your washing machine breaks down, or when you need to fix your car\u2014big expenditure items. If there is no money in the bank, those are the people who suffer. That is why I have always supported that kick-start payment being made to people who join KiwiSaver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EKiwiSaver itself was a fantastic scheme, and I want to pay credit to Dr Michael Cullen for his vision in saying that we need to change the savings culture in New Zealand, and this was his way of doing that. Since it has been introduced, we have seen the National-led Government make cuts to the integrity of the KiwiSaver scheme year after year after year. At every opportunity, Bill English and John Key have weakened what was a very strong scheme\u2014weakened the integrity of the KiwiSaver scheme. The minimum member contribution was reduced. We have had the fee subsidy discontinued, the compulsory employer contribution capped, and the employer tax credit discontinued. It is not that we have suddenly decided to weaken the KiwiSaver scheme. This measure tonight, in the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill, is a desperate attempt to try to cobble together a little bit of extra money to make the surplus, but it was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00226f61f1c7545e4195bafcbc565311b556\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f61f1c7545e4195bafcbc565311b556\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member. The time has come for me to leave the Chair. I want to thank the House for the collegiality of the debate and for the spirit in which people have engaged tonight. I must admit that we have all learnt an awful lot, specifically about the King of Belgium.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505216499c55058a64dfe8f2a257c1f3701a6001213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 12 midnight to 9 a.m. (Saturday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229ad54eed56e847ee8c8afc3c1eabf855\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 21 MAY 2015\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2720fa103e1432294b284b6841d0b24\u0022\u003E(continued on Saturday, 23 May 2015)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d51eca6feef4a3cad69d7f4eb1183d4\u0022\u003EKiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002215cde7a8d60c42279a012c7c2d35e84f\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00223df2e338a70c4deba10a38d1a441bd97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223df2e338a70c4deba10a38d1a441bd97\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is resumed. When we were suspended last night we were debating the first reading of the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill. The Hon Ruth Dyson was speaking and she has 5 minutes and 30 seconds remaining to speak, if she so wishes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022088b42fa9bbc416eb80db21ba5b909b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022088b42fa9bbc416eb80db21ba5b909b2\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I certainly do wish to continue the speech that was so rudely interrupted at midnight. It seems like just a couple of hours ago when the Hon Maurice Williamson was contributing so strongly to this debate. It is a sad day when the National Party rejoices in taking $1,000 out of the pockets of hard-working New Zealanders, particularly those people who have found it so hard to save and put aside money, but know they should build up their KiwiSaver accounts so that they will have better financial security in their older days. The National Party members last night were making it very clear that they had no understanding at all of what it is like for people for whom $1,000 is a target they would never be able to reach without the support of the Government. Those people are now seeing that money go away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI heard some National Party members yesterday talking about the $25 increase in benefits and how that would justify it. That is 40 weeks of benefit being lost by this bill, this KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill. It is not a one-off. It is not just a one-off, with Bill English scrambling to try to get another surplus, which he has again failed to reach. For the seventh year in a row there is no Budget surplus, despite two election promises: the 2011 election promise of a Budget surplus this year, and the 2014 election campaign promise of a Budget surplus this year. Those are two significant election campaign promises broken in this Budget yet again. This is a mean-spirited bill that takes away that $1,000 for KiwiSaver savers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EAbout half a million New Zealanders, many of whom are young people just entering the workforce, and about 70,000 children will now miss out on getting that $1,000 kick-start to KiwiSaver. What makes it even worse, what makes it more unfair, is that it is retrospective. It started from 2 o\u2019clock on Budget day, even though by the parliamentary calendar today is Budget day. Today is still Thursday. The rest of the world has actually moved on, and for them it is Saturday. It is going to be a long Saturday for the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb9e652fd15a4c8194d82fd1f65c4b58\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: When do the benefit increases kick in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f741f2924d24f768702973a4852ff82\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very good question from my colleague Iain Lees-Galloway, MP for Palmerston North. The benefit increases do not start until 1 April next year, but the KiwiSaver cuts that this bill is all about started from 2 o\u2019clock on Thursday of the week that we have just ended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis is retrospective legislation being rammed through this Parliament all stages under urgency. I wonder why that is. Is it because there is some genuine urgency to this legislation? Is there a desperate need for this measure to be introduced? No. It is like all the other measures that are being put through under urgency. It is because none of the National Party members can front up to members of the public, let alone their own constituents, for those who are electorate MPs, or for list MPs. They cannot front up to the people whom they deceived during the election campaign by not mentioning that they would take away the $1,000 kick-start to KiwiSaver. Not once on the Ilam election campaign trail did Gerry Brownlee say: \u201CWe are going to take away your $1,000 kick-start to your KiwiSaver account.\u201D But he did say that next year\u2019s Budget would be a surplus Budget, just like he did in 2011. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis has been a Budget of broken promises, and of mean-spirited legislation, including this one. It has been a scramble for Bill English to try to get to a Budget surplus, and once again he has failed. If people had signed up to KiwiSaver at 1 o\u2019clock on Thursday, they would be getting the $1,000 kick-start, but if they had signed up at 2.30 on Thursday they will miss out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour took the cake last night. He said that that is what Budgets are about\u2014you take from some people and give to others. It is depends whom you take from and why. Taking money from low-income, middle-income, and hard-working New Zealanders\u2014the key trigger for them to have an incentive to be better savers than they were in the past, has been taken away by the National Government. Where is that money going? It is really hard to say. There is no commitment to investment, no commitment to our regions, no commitment to employment, and no commitment to a vision or a plan for the future. This is just a scramble of ideas in the Budget. It is mean-spirited legislation and unfair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis is a continuation of the watering-down and cuts that National has brought into the KiwiSaver scheme. This is the eighth cut to KiwiSaver since National was elected in 2008. There has been a series of cuts to KiwiSaver, which was one of the biggest changes that we had to the savings culture in New Zealand. There is no money going into the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. KiwiSaver is the biggest saving incentive that we have had in New Zealand since the Bill Rowling scheme, which National cut as well, actually, in previous years. KiwiSaver and superannuation are our commitment to the future, and all National wants to do is cut them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea8e9a95824d405e95f898be0daeaeaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea8e9a95824d405e95f898be0daeaeaf\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E We have had about an hour of contributions from the other side. That hour has confirmed in my mind that those guys have absolutely no idea what they are talking about when it comes to fiscal responsibility. You will have already heard Ruth Dyson talking about surpluses. She talked about\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022525aa35fa2f341edae441b31a5fc2d43\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can we just lower the volume from my left a little bit, please. I just cannot hear him at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fad0cd036bd434aa96113c30bc7e828\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. Ruth Dyson was talking about surpluses and forecast smaller surpluses, but she did not talk about what the $790 million of reduced or small surpluses is funding. There is a choice, Ms Dyson. You cannot have everything. You can take away the $790 million package and that will give you increased surpluses, but that is not what we choose to do. We care for those who can least afford it\u2014beneficiaries with children. When you care about things like that, you have to make choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220881f8db59cc41caa50787b3efd6262f\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: You have just taken 40 weeks of benefit increases off them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229833b8d45eb94d2782e0ff845206b6ed\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: That is only one-third. Last night we heard from a professor of economics who talked about nonsense. I commend this bill to the House. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9a098ab6f7a400eb8923f7edeb2b542\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9a098ab6f7a400eb8923f7edeb2b542\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! And on this occasion I think I am having trouble hearing the member because one of his colleagues is yelling over him. I think he might have been breaching outside the bill, but I just could not hear. Is the member finished?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cee362dc49964921a228117bf9cef4cd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff198f961ada4acea3ba4390a8359d05\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022c971f0ab49ec43fb925678586e013a8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c971f0ab49ec43fb925678586e013a8a\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the Minister of Finance, I move that the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill be now read a second time. New Zealand is emerging strongly from the economic turmoil following the global financial crisis and the effects of the Canterbury earthquakes. If we are to withstand future microeconomic shocks, we need to ensure that Government spending is prudent and well targeted to where it is most needed. Removing the kick-start will achieve significant fiscal savings and enable the Government to meet competing policy and fiscal strategy objectives. The removal will also have the effect of lowering the cost of KiwiSaver and therefore improving the value for money of the KiwiSaver scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af3e23db545949de9564268147b0bdea\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just ask the Minister to resume his seat. I noted at the beginning of his speech he said he was moving the second reading on behalf of the Minister of Finance. The bill is in fact in the Minister\u2019s name, so I think what he might want to do is just correct that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d40877eb239b41e49c29986bc39a2211\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I move, That the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill be now read a second time. Removing the kick-start contribution will achieve significant fiscal savings and enable the Government to meet competing policy and fiscal strategy objectives. Removal will also have the effect of lowering the cost of KiwiSaver and will therefore improve the value for money of the KiwiSaver scheme. KiwiSaver remains an attractive scheme and the Government is committed to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI would like to point out that KiwiSaver members will continue to receive employer contributions and Government-provided member tax credits. It will remain an important vehicle for saving towards homeownership. Since 2011 there have been more than 9,500 withdrawals from the scheme, totalling more than $0.5 billion, as people use their KiwiSaver contributions to buy their first home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI note that more New Zealanders have joined KiwiSaver under this National Government than under the last Labour Government. New Zealanders did not have faith in the scheme under Labour, but they do have faith under National, and they will continue to have that faith. The change proposed in this bill will help ensure KiwiSaver is sustainable and represents good value for money. I therefore commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002248bfe957148048c58f153ddbb71bec62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248bfe957148048c58f153ddbb71bec62\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E This bill is the most symbolic of all the Budget legislation going through the House. Apart from one other, it is the most symbolic of the measures in the Budget. After 7 years in office, the National Party has discovered poverty in New Zealand. After 7 years, it has discovered that there are people who have been struggling and doing it really hard. The Government has helped and has given them $25 a week, but it has taken everything else away from those hard-working, hard struggling Kiwis\u2014and this is just one of them. This is the most symbolic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWhen it was first started, under the last, progressive Labour Government\u2014the last Labour Government\u2014the purpose of KiwiSaver was to help savings, because everybody identified that New Zealand had a major savings problem. People were struggling to put money aside, and they needed a scheme in which they could save so that they could live in just a little extra comfort in their retirement. But ever since this Government has been in power, it has hated KiwiSaver. Actually, it hated KiwiSaver at birth, and it has hated KiwiSaver ever since. Every opportunity National gets to hack away at it, to cut it, to undermine it, to destroy it, it takes that opportunity. The Government did this when it cut the member tax credits and undermined that contribution. That helped hard-working Kiwis! And now it is having another go\u2014now it is having another go. It is taking away the kick-start. It is taking away the kick-start, because this is a National Party and a National Government that hates KiwiSaver. It cannot leave it alone. It cannot keep its hands off it\u2014a bit like the Prime Minister and ponytails. It cannot keep its hands off it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo now the Government has taken the kick-start\u2014the very thing that helps many people. For many workers, I know the one thing that got them into the scheme when the scheme first came in was that kick-start\u2014the thousand bucks. They thought: \u201CI know I\u2019m going to have a little bit of a struggle to get into this in the next few years until my pay increases, but because I\u2019m part of a good union and I know I\u2019m going to get good pay increases, I\u2019ll make the contributions, and I know I\u2019ll get the $1,000 kick-start, and that\u2019ll get me into the scheme.\u201D That is why 2.5 million Kiwis are in the scheme\u2014that is why 2.5 million Kiwis have made that decision. They knew that they could get that help, and they were getting the member tax credits as well until this mob cut them and made that harder. They all got the kick-start\u2014the $1,000 payment. Those who were thinking about their kids and their kids\u2019 future thought: \u201CYep, we\u2019ll make sure they get in and get a good savings habit started early.\u201D So the mums and dads signed their kids up too, and they got the kick-start as well. Well, all that is going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt may have been lost on the National Party and its great planners\u2014oh whoops, it does not have any, because it does not have a plan. It has never had a plan for the good of New Zealand. But let us do what economists do; let us make an assumption that the National Party has somebody who does planning. When National planned this, it may have forgotten that, actually, kids are going to carry on being born in New Zealand. New Zealand parents will continue to have children. I think that we can safely make that assumption. So as more children are born, as more children come into New Zealand, and as they enter the workforce, they might want to start their KiwiSaver account. They might need a bit of help, and a $1,000 kick-start would be that help. Well, it would have been that help, but National has destroyed it because, again, it hates KiwiSaver. It is bad enough that the Government is running down New Zealand superannuation. Oh yes, 7 years in office and not a single effort has been made to make sure that the future of New Zealand and New Zealand retirees is safe and secure. Government members just live in splendid ignorance of the biggest issue facing the country. They just bury their heads in the sand. They do not want to touch it. It is bad enough for a country that is desperately trying to grow its own capital base and that is desperately trying to create the foundation for future wealth through things like KiwiSaver that this party in Government just continues to run it down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EGovernment members sit there shamefaced\u2014the only respectable look they have shown in the whole Budget debate. They sit there shamefaced because they know the damage that they are bringing on this country. They know the damage they are doing. It is just like the rest of the Budget, actually, because they do not have a plan, they do not have a vision, they do not know what they are doing. It is Budget by Budget, and broken promise after broken promise. They are doing this because they have discovered poverty and they are desperate to do something to give the appearance that they are doing something. So they will crib it out of KiwiSaver, take it off the future generations, and try to kind of look after those who have been struggling for so long and give them a slight bit of reprieve now. But it is not a way to run a country, it is not a way to build a foundation, and it is not a way to improve the long-term interests of all New Zealanders and all New Zealand. They do not have an answer. They do not have a clue. They do not have a plan. They do not know what they are doing. They are out of touch, out of ideas, and rapidly out of time. They do not know what they are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EDemolishing KiwiSaver, taking away the kick-start, is just another measure to further erode the strength that New Zealand desperately needs in its economic base. They have got nothing at all\u2014they have got nothing at all to add to the long-term future economic base of New Zealand. Here was something\u2014encourage people to get into savings, encourage people to get into KiwiSaver, give those kids a chance, give them a start. And those workers who are on low and medium incomes, give them help to get into KiwiSaver to build up their long-term savings and, hopefully, to give them a bit of dignity in retirement. But no, Government members cannot look much further than the next balance date. And then they have to make up a fictional surplus as well to get them that far\u2014to convince themselves that they know what they are doing, to convince themselves that they have got a Budget that is going to make a difference. Well, the only difference it is making is to make it much harder for hard-working Kiwis who just want a bit of help to get their savings under way. They just want a bit of help to get their KiwiSaver going, and now it is being ripped from under them because this Government is desperate, is out of ideas, does not know what to do, cannot manage the economy, and is leaving all the problems built up for the next Government to have to fix and address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe problems are all mounting and this will be just one of them\u2014the ongoing shallow capital base of New Zealand encouraged and fomented by this Government because it does not know what it is doing. It is thrashing around looking for an answer. It is thrashing around trying to convince itself that what it has done is going to be good for struggling, hard-working New Zealanders, and it is not. But the Government has got to do this. Government members have got to convince themselves that if they give the appearance of doing something and if they pat themselves on the back for discovering poverty, then maybe they will be able to get through the next year, as they rush around trying to find a solution to the other bigger problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EGovernment members talk about leakage. This is about their answer to leakage, because apparently they are saying that the kick-start is not targeted at the right people. Well, KiwiSaver is actually targeted at everybody. That is the whole thing about KiwiSaver. It is about giving every New Zealander a chance to have their savings. It is about giving every New Zealander a chance to get their savings habits under way from a young age\u2014from a working age. But here National goes again. It never said this at the election. It never went into the election and said \u201CThat\u2019s it.\u201D The world knew they hated KiwiSaver. We thought the hatred had come to an end. We thought that they might do something constructive. We thought that they might do something to build New Zealand\u2019s economic base. We thought that they might do something for the good of New Zealand\u2019s economic future. But still they will not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc68dee10cbd42ed98981dde7cf3a1e6\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Too little, too late. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292e0b7dc8c4d4e99a324ddd2da51a3e5\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: David Bennett thinks that the Waikato Expressway is doing something for New Zealand\u2019s economic future. Well, that is not enough\u2014that is not enough. That is about ferrying people out of Auckland, because they are desperate to get out of there and to get somewhere they can drive their car. It is not about building the economic base of New Zealand. National has got nothing to say about helping New Zealanders with their savings habits. Now we see that the most symbolic gesture of this Budget\u2014the most symbolic gesture of this Budget\u2014is yet more \u201Cshort-termism\u201D and ripping away the opportunity that hard-working Kiwis would have had to start their savings habit. Here National members are, doing it on Saturday morning of Budget weekend. Here they go, ripping away an opportunity for hard-working Kiwis who just want a chance to save and who just want a chance to contribute to the nation\u2019s savings and to the good of the nation. Well, here they go again. Here is the National Party again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe National Party, as we know, does not like KiwiSaver, hates workers, does not want to give them a hand, and does not want to give them any support. It is pulling away the one chance they have got\u2014the one bit of help they get\u2014to get their savings habit under way. Here National is, in Budget 2015, pulling it out from under them\u2014ripping it up. National does not like working Kiwis trying to get ahead. It is the way the National Party operates\u2014it has done so for the last 70 years. It is doing it again in office. It is about to come to an end. It will be the next Labour-led Government that restores KiwiSaver and that gives working New Zealanders a chance to get ahead, for the good of all New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002246c280d7da3b4ca58630a529ffb2d675\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246c280d7da3b4ca58630a529ffb2d675\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E That is the sort of speech you give when you come to the party 43 years late. That is the sort of speech you give when you have got no ideas to offer the country at all. What we heard from Mr Little was that apparently there is no plan. Well, I tell you what, there are a lot of people in this country who think that the Government of the day is doing an extremely good job, and they are very, very happy about the Budget that has been brought down in the last few days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhat we heard from Mr Little in a policy sense in that short speech was his reconfirmation that under Labour, the retirement age will go up, not to 67, not to 68, not to 69, but most likely to 70. That at least is something that Labour is standing for. Secondly, we have heard that when people do get to what is a nominal retirement age, if they are still working, then there will be a means test applied to them. When you look at the Labour record for spending in Government, everyone knows that it will not stop at just the earnings over and above wages; it will be everything for anyone over the age of 65 under a Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI find it really staggering, too, that Mr Little expects to be taken seriously when he talks about fiscal matters by offering the really insightful piece of information that if a Government makes a grant to someone so that that person might start some savings, it is somehow the basis for having an expanding fiscal foundation for the nation. Well, I do not mind saying that I have never really understood how someone can say that they are wealthier by virtue of their borrowing. That is fundamentally wrong, and that is the sort of rubbish that Mr Little is going around saying on the stump at the moment, trying to convince New Zealanders of the insightful idea that the Labour Party can somehow conjure up out of nowhere the money to make life better for everyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe other point that was really interesting was the attack that Mr Little managed in this KiwiSaver bill to mount on this Government\u2019s record when it comes to New Zealand superannuation. This Government has raised the superannuation income for superannuitants repeatedly over the last 7 years\u2014repeatedly\u2014and not just in the context of the Consumers Price Index but in other things as well. Although the numbers are not in front of me, I can tell you that those increases are well in excess of $100 a fortnight in the last 3 years. That is real work by a Government. That is not some sort of penny-pinching. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt is also extraordinary that in a Budget where there has been a big move to raise the benefit incomes for those New Zealanders who require that assistance that Labour members, of all people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe5a1f56867543bfbc38e00c82090d69\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve just cut 40 weeks of it in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223da7ccc22fe146e4bf47cdae0de90572\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Ruth Dyson and the exiting crew from the back row\u2014are all out there, waving a bit of paper and asking: \u201CWhere\u2019s the surplus? Where\u2019s the surplus?\u201D. So what we know is that a Labour Government will always put a surplus ahead of the needs of New Zealanders\u2014it will always do that. That is its record. That is its record. That is why for so many of those 43 years since 1972\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223351010dda164a3dae13d474e46abebc\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I know that this bill has not been to a select committee and, therefore, the debate can be broader than normal, but I am just going to ask the Minister to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a1671f4e9f24c7e940cc6993e2f0c26\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Mention it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227046e2fffe8942488f5aae8dbf5c0ecf\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014well, that is what I was going to say\u2014try mentioning it, rather than having the entire speech as a prelude to his contribution to the Budget debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecb83a48d46d496c9760259fbee0384a\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s a senior member. He should know better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b93f6c17f8084885b20676b11287f1b6\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, I should know better, but I will also resist any temptation to note that at a very, very salient point in my contribution to this debate there could well have been a partisan intervention, but I am not going to say that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EJust think carefully about what KiwiSaver does. KiwiSaver says to anyone coming into the workforce: \u201CSign up to this particular proposal, put a sum of your money into the scheme, and there will be an employer contribution plus a $521-a-year contribution from the Government as well.\u201D None of that changes. That all remains in place. The really interesting thing is that young people going into the workforce and signing up to save in this way will now have access to those KiwiSaver funds for the purchase of a first home. These are not small grants\u2014$5,000 per individual if it is a second-hand home, $10,000 if it is a brand-new home, or $20,000 for a couple who have saved through this system\u2014so it is utterly ridiculous for anyone to suggest that the incentives for young people to sign up to KiwiSaver are in any way at all damaged by this particular prospect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI heard the most interesting thing on TV the other night. It was a vox pop in the street where clearly someone from the Labour Party had managed to get themselves in front of a camera\u2014[Interruption]\u2014yes, true; well, it is a rare thing for someone from the Labour Party to get in front of a camera\u2014and they were saying: \u201CThis is a terrible thing. I had hoped that I would be able to use my KiwiSaver and that $1,000 to go towards my first home.\u201D Well, get real\u2014get real. Saving over a 5-year period is going to see more than $2,500 of Government grant going into that account, plus up to $10,000 at the time that the house is bought. People understand that. People understand that well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI can tell our opponents on the other side that there is a whole industry of people out there encouraging young people to join KiwiSaver under those conditions. That is why the number is at 2.5 million, and why it will not fall is that young people actually do have aspiration. Young people do want to make the most of their lives. Young people will see that their getting up to $15,000 worth of Government grant when they come to buy their home makes it well worth their while being in KiwiSaver, regardless of this $1,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00225dc39742ca4a43b68557b6bc5873aaf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225dc39742ca4a43b68557b6bc5873aaf5\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E This is a Budget of broken promises. It is short on vision and it fails to deliver a surplus. People around the country watching that speech from the Hon Gerry Brownlee will be saying to themselves: \u201CI wonder\u2014did those Ministers on the National benches take that $1,000 themselves before they cut it off for hard-working families around the country?\u201D. They will be asking whether the member for Ilam banked that $1,000 before he cut it off from his hard-working constituents. They will be asking whether he encouraged his family members to take that $1,000 before the Government cut it off from hard-working constituents. They will be talking to the member from Hamilton West and asking whether he took the $1,000 before he cut it off from his hard-working constituents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f624c92f133f4f20a2eefc2c5a971ea9\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: He wouldn\u2019t take a thousand bucks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E The member from Hamilton East: did he take it from his family members for himself before he cut it off for the rest of hard-working New Zealand? They will be going into the office in Rodney and saying to the member there: did he take the $1,000 before he cut it off from his hard-working constituents? There are some guilty faces opposite, and I am not surprised. They will be going into the Rotorua office and saying to the Minister: did he take the $1,000 before he cut it off from hard-working families? And I would be interested to hear what answers they get. I wonder whether the journalists will ask members opposite whether they took the $1,000 KiwiSaver kick-start before they cut it off from hard-working New Zealand families. Over there, they are quite happy to cut out the lunch for everyone else when they have got a big lunch for themselves, and that is indicative of this Government\u2019s attitude to the future of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe Government has hit the panic button. It has hit the panic button, and we can see it right there in the regulatory impact statement, on the front page. On the front page: \u201CThe advice was requested in advance of Budget 2016 and therefore has been prepared urgently.\u201D How long has the Budget been coming? Why did it need to be prepared urgently? The analysts have \u201Cnot focussed on the effect of policy options on national saving\u201D. They say it there in paragraph four. In paragraph two it is urgent; in paragraph four they have not focused on savings. And then paragraph five, if we skip forward: \u201CThere has been only limited consultation\u201D. And now we are passing it through urgency. Members opposite know what answer they would get. They know the hard-working New Zealanders who come into their offices would be furious that they took the $1,000 and then said it is gone. It is gone. But it is what we get from this Government. It is out of touch. It has lost touch with middle New Zealand. It is looking after the interests of a very wealthy few, and it is robbing Peter to pay Paul. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EAlthough there are a few good things in the Budget\u2014and we on this side have acknowledged some good changes in the Budget\u2014we see that there is sleight of hand and they are taking with the other hand, and middle New Zealanders are the ones who are squeezed yet again. The Government is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Those improvements should not come at the cost of those who are just one or two rungs further up the ladder, but that is what we see from this Government\u2014a Government short on vision. There is no doubt that this change will reduce savings for New Zealanders, and at the very time we need to be increasing them. This is a short-term plan and not a long-term vision. But it is what we have come to expect from this Government: a Government that is neglecting the regions, that has failed to diversify the economy, that has failed to address the housing bubble in any meaningful way, and that has failed to diversify the skills of New Zealanders to prepare for tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe know\u2014I remember, from my time in Treasury\u2014that one of New Zealand\u2019s challenges is capital debt. It is actually having enough money for businesses to access, for them to grow. That is a very serious problem. Treasury had an analyst on it in the 1970s. Treasury has still got an analyst on it, and members opposite are doing nothing about it but cut, cut, cut when it comes to savings. They do not care about business in New Zealand\u2014not small businesses and not medium sized businesses anyway. Across there, all we see them doing is cutting. They have cut the contributions to the Cullen fund. They have cut the contributions to KiwiSaver on several occasions. This is one of a number of cuts. Last night my colleague David Parker outlined seven or eight cuts, I think it was, that they have made to KiwiSaver. This is a Government that does not care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIn Australia they have got a superannuation fund that has got $1.3 trillion in it. That would have happened across here if Muldoon had not cut it. This is the same attitude as the Muldoon Government\u2014this Government, though, has borrowed more than Muldoon. It is up to $88 billion in debt. It is drowning us in debt, because $10 million a day is spent just paying off debt. Taxpayers are paying $10 million a day just to pay off the Government\u2019s debt. That is the attitude it has. That is short-term thinking from a Government that is out of ideas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EHalf a million Kiwis are going to miss out on this $1,000 over the next 4 years. Those are the Kiwis who should be going into the offices of those members opposite and saying: \u201CDid they take the $1,000 before they cut it?\u201D. Did they take the $1,000 before it was cut? I will be interested to see. I would like them to put up their hands to show that they took the $1,000. I would be interested to see whether members opposite have the courage to put up their hands to show that they took the $1,000. Let us see: how many of them took the $1,000? How many took the $1,000 across there? None of them! They are all saying that none of them took the $1,000. I bet that is wrong. I bet we will learn, in coming days, that that is wrong. Those members opposite should own up. They took the $1,000 and then they took the ladder away. That is just typical of this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe know this plan works. That is the crazy thing\u20142.5 million Kiwis have signed up for KiwiSaver; 2.5 million Kiwis have signed up for Labour\u2019s KiwiSaver programme. And the Inland Revenue Department says, in its recently released, fairly thick, and comprehensive evaluation report, that this is an excellent scheme, basically: 36 percent extra savings on top of the savings that would ordinarily have happened in our economy. It is because, of course, there are member contributions that encourage people to get involved. There is an opt-out clause, so people are in the scheme and there are no overheads, no hassle to get involved. People find themselves saving before they know it. Of course, they are encouraged, because there is a thousand bucks in there to start with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EAs my colleague David Parker outlined last night, that makes a difference for somebody on $15 an hour with a part-time job, when they are saving a couple of bucks a week: $1,002 is much easier to be proud of than $2 in your account. It makes you feel good. Behavioural economics have happened. We are not still in the 1980s. Those people over there need to read a few new economics textbooks, get the Hayek out from under their pillows, get a few new books under their belts, and get the spray-misters out to dry them off. Those people opposite need to have an up-to-date understanding of just how economics works. Thank goodness the Inland Revenue Department has a few insights, because it is telling the Government that this policy works. This policy works. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe beautiful thing, of course, is that people are signed up to the scheme already. A lot of people have got this and they will be thankful. But it is the half a million Kiwis who are going to miss out over the next 4 years we should be thinking about. Those half a million Kiwis\u2014I hope just a few of them go and ask these National MPs and Ministers opposite whether they took the thousand bucks before they got rid of the scheme. They already cut the member tax credit in 2011, cutting savings. Cutting savings is not the way to manage the economy. It is what Muldoon did, and this is the Government that has created more debt than Muldoon. It is the same plan, and it did not work then, and it will not work now, and Kiwis can see that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe do not even know whether it can be implemented. The Inland Revenue Department says it is going to cost $210,000 to implement this scheme. That is 210 Kiwis who could have had the extra thousand bucks. And will the Government be able to do it? Or will members opposite be coming back again, like they have done with so many bills that have adjusted the tax system\u2014to reverse the changes out because they cost so much under the old system in the Inland Revenue Department that they still have not fixed, after nearly 7 years of Government? Seven years, 7 long years, and they still have no new ideas. They have not fixed the tax system. I doubt very much whether they will be able to do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThey are costing New Zealanders\u2019 future. They are stealing from the future generations, from the pockets of kids. This is what it has come down to. Members opposite will claim high and mighty. They will say they have made some positive changes, and no one on this side of the House begrudges them that. But we do not want to do it by stealing out of the pockets of those who are one or two rungs further up the ladder. It is always the middle class and the lower class, those who are struggling, those who are really working hard, those who go out to work every day on modest wages, those who are on median incomes, who are feeling the squeeze. It is not those at the very tip-top, not those who benefited from the 2010 tax package, not the top 1 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EBut we will see. Let us see whether Mr Bennett stands up shortly to say that he took the $10,000 and he is proud to see that no one else\u2014[Interruption] Sorry, $10,000\u2014whatever, even better. Let us see whether he took the $1,000 and then cut the scheme. I bet Mr Bennett will tell us that he did take the $1,000, and that he encouraged everyone he knew. This is retrospective legislation, because members opposite know that if they pushed this out a whole bunch of people would sign up, no matter what they say. This is a Government that is out of vision, out of ideas, and out of touch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd929c2b27ee45ac8296fa523606edf6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd929c2b27ee45ac8296fa523606edf6\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E The speech that we heard from Andrew Little today was much better than 2 days ago. I think that was actually a better speech than the one he delivered on Budget night. It was too little, too late, but it did come from a member of that party. And in that speech, he talked about how the Labour Party felt that there were shamed faces in this Chamber. The only shamed faces are over there. Those were the shamed people on Thursday, because they realised that for over 43 years they have not delivered for the people who need help\u201443 years that will go down in the history of New Zealand politics. Forty-three years, and not one Labour Government did a thing for those people. Every day they come into this Chamber and they preach high and mighty and they say how they are looking after people in need and in vulnerable communities\u2014all that stuff. Do they deliver for them? No, they do not deliver. Andrew Little does not want to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhat does he want to do, though? What does Andrew Little want to do? He wants to take superannuation away from hard-working New Zealanders\u2014hard-working New Zealanders who have spent a lifetime working. When they retire, they look forward to their superannuation. And Andrew Little wants to take that away. He wants to take superannuation away from New Zealanders. He has had 2 days to reflect on that, and he still believes in it. Today in this House, this morning, he said that he would take that superannuation entitlement away from New Zealanders\u2014from hard-working New Zealanders who have spent years in the workforce. They are going to lose it under Labour. New Zealanders understand and expect that from the Labour Party now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ELabour\u2019s grand plan is to give you $1,000 in your KiwiSaver. Grant Robertson said that he would do that. He would reinstate that policy. This morning the Labour Party has said that it would reinstate this policy, but its reason for reinstating this policy is that in good economics it makes you feel good if you have got $1,000 in your account. Good economic policy, according to the last speaker, Mr Clark, who did not come back to Hamilton after his last visit, is that if you feel better for having $1,000 in your account, then that is good economics. Well, where does that money come from, Mr Clark, when you have got Budget deficits? You have to borrow that $1,000 to put into somebody\u2019s account to make them feel good. Is that good economics?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EMaybe if you had actually run a business, you would understand that you have to earn the money and then put it in your account rather than put it in there just to make you feel good. But that is the feel-good factor that you get from the Labour Party. Grant Robertson said after the Budget that the Labour Party is going to reinstate the KiwiSaver kick-start. He did not talk to his colleagues. He did not talk to them at all. He just came out and said it. He said it. That means that Labour has committed another $400 million in the next Budget and future Budgets\u2014$500 million. So when we come to 2017, you can put another $500 million on what it promises in the election campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209d4cc0ab1794989a5e27c4524be2b92\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Whack it on the bill, Phil.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022419a86f414d14f00a824efd9a8d601ff\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Whack it on\u2014that is right. Whack it on the bill, because that is what Labour has done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EMr Little, when he was talking, mentioned superannuation constantly during his speech. He talked about it constantly, because he wants to attack the very people who have made this country strong\u2014the very people who are in this room. I bet you that \u201CProfessor\u201D Fletcher Tabuteau over there will not be agreeing with that. I bet you that \u201CProfessor\u201D Tabuteau, when he talks to his boss, will know that New Zealand First is not supporting any changes to superannuation, because for all of the faults that there are in New Zealand First\u2014and there are many, and you will see them lined up there now\u2014there is one thing it has got, and it is that its leader has a sense of the superannuation debate. He knows that it would be the end of the world for the Opposition to go out there and actually promise changes to superannuation. But the Labour Party is high and mighty and will do that. It is a bit like a capital gains tax. A member of the Labour Party promised a capital gains tax. Then they lost the election. Then they said no, we are not having a capital gains tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bf7764311eb45eea179d0f11e03fca6\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I appreciate that my own contribution was somewhat wide ranging, but I did try to tie it to the bill. If the member is trying to say that the cuts that he is making are tied to the bill, then that might be in order, but it seems it is going a bit far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022338663b7f4a742f4a1b1794caa937cfa\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: The question of relevance is one that is purely for the Chair, and although I accept that I received some criticism from the Leader of the House when I attempted to narrow the debate earlier, as a result of the advice that I have had from him, I have let this member run a bit wider than would normally be the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290c50b1c38d44f598c51c38ed2036457\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know why the Labour Party cannot give dignity to people in retirement and why they want to attack the hard-working New Zealanders who have spent years working in our workforce to pay for those members to be in this room\u2014to pay for them to have those grandiose ideas, to pay for them to go around the country as if they are some kinds of lords and ladies of the world who can tell us what to do. And then when it comes to those workers\u2019 retirement, they are going to take superannuation away. They are going to take away hard-working New Zealanders\u2019 entitlements in their retirement. But they want to give those workers $1,000 now to make them feel happy. That will make them feel happy, and they will be all right. When they retire, they are going to lose more than $1,000; they are going to lose their entitlements. They are going to have to wait until they are 70. Under Labour, those people working on the outside of this building, doing the hard brickwork on this building, will have to work until they are 70\u201470 is the age Labour is going to make them work until. But those workers will get up each morning and they will do that work because they know that they got $1,000 when they were 21, and they will remember that and think: \u201CI am happy. I am a happy person because I got that thousand bucks.\u201D That is what the Labour Party economic theory is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIt is great to see, and it is great to see Andrew Little smiling. It is the first time that I have seen him smile in 2 days. It is hard for him. It must be very difficult being the leader of a party that does not really exist any more, and also a party that he does not have support from. The rest of them show more animation when a National Party member speaks than they do when their own leader speaks. It was really sad to watch them on Thursday night. When you look at a Budget, you should attack a Budget if you are in Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1446badae244bdc8c97aa3e1489bf14\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I think that even my sort of liberal approach is now being tested when the member talks about other debates on which he is yet to speak. So the member will now address the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a9db417664149fb8a65b4f2f9535704\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker\u2014and a very good Speaker as well. For 43 years we have delivered the Budget\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ff28c383bc144638ae60a23e572de56\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member will resume his seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00220cbebc00775d45179ae6aa18ac62859e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220cbebc00775d45179ae6aa18ac62859e\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill. I am going to take, I hope, a slightly different approach. I would like to start by acknowledging both Mr Brownlee and Mr Bennett for actually taking full calls on this bill, and actually providing some form of argument in this debate, because during the previous Budget debates over the last few days Government members have not actually even bothered to speak to their own bills. They have not actually bothered to lay out their case; they have just relied on their numbers. So I do appreciate the fact that Mr Brownlee and Mr Bennett did actually take full calls on this bill, even if they relied more on volume than reason to make their arguments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThere are a number of key points that I would like to address, and I am inviting the Government to respond directly to these points because I have not yet heard any real arguments\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232d7b25c273540ba9f86226596c73cea\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Sorry, there is noise from both sides at the moment and it is a bit hard to hear the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212573c0b0a79427bba10ae9300881858\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: I was just saying that I am actually inviting the Government to respond specifically to these points. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe first one is around New Zealand\u2019s savings rate. We are still 22nd out of 24 OECD countries in our savings rate, which, even given the success of the KiwiSaver scheme over the last few years, is a shockingly low rate of savings. We are a country that relies more on debt than we do on savings. We have weak capital markets, partially as a result of this. National\u2019s Savings Working Group itself said that our foreign debt is too high. This makes us vulnerable, and our domestic savings are essential to try to redress that. Our investment needs to be funded from offshore because we do not have the domestic savings to provide those sorts of capital markets. Removing the incentive from KiwiSaver and reducing the likelihood that more people will be joining the KiwiSaver scheme reduces our domestic savings rate. So I would like to know, absent the incentive, what the Government\u2019s plan is to increase New Zealand\u2019s savings rate. That is the first point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe second point is around the loss of the incentive. I would like to thank David Clark for his contribution before about behavioural economics, which is a more recent evolution in economic thinking. The question here is: why would you take away the incentive? Absent compulsion, why would you take away the primary incentive? It is the one that most people know about. The ANZ chief economist, Cameron Bagrie, said in this morning\u2019s Dominion Post that he himself\u2014ANZ\u2019s chief economist\u2014would not have put his kids into KiwiSaver if it was not for the $1,000 incentive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESo the $1,000 incentive is the most well-known component of the whole scheme. There are other incentives still contained in the scheme, as Mr Brownlee said, which include the tax rebate, the matching contributions, and so on. But, actually, my belief is that the Government would have been better off to cut or remove the tax rebate than the $1,000 contribution. That would probably have had more fiscal impact, but it would have retained the $1,000 incentive. That is what people think of when they think of the incentive of this scheme. As far as I can work out, what you are going to see is a reduction in the percentage of people who are taking up the scheme. So I would like to know what the Government\u2019s response is to the loss of that incentive. How does it actually expect the same percentage, or equivalent, of people to continue to join the scheme, absent the $1,000 incentive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe third question is around the timing of the loss of the incentive. If, for example, you had said that this would take effect in 6 months, 12 months, or 2 years, there would have been a window where people said: \u201COK, there is still an incentive, but I have got to get in now or it is going to be lost.\u201D Even if you had given it a week, you would have seen a rush of people joining the scheme. One of the previous speakers on the Government side said: \u201CWell, look, if people have not joined the scheme now, what is the likelihood that they ever will? Given that we have had the incentive for all these years, what are the chances that they are going to do that?\u201D. If there had been a time limit\u2014and if my reading of behavioural economics is anything to go by\u2014there are a lot of people who are out there thinking: \u201COh, yeah, I will get to it one day but it is a bit complicated. It is a bit hard. I do not have enough money quite now. I will get to it.\u201D If you had left a window and said: \u201CLet us give this 6 or 12 months and then the incentive would go.\u201D, yes, it would cost you a bit more money, but you would get that tail of people who just had not quite got around to it. But instead, by cutting it off immediately, there is no chance for people to get it who were thinking about it but had not gotten around to it. I would like a response to that, please, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe next one is about intergenerational equity. The current generation of parents with young kids who are working are paying for their kids\u2019 education through the high tertiary fees and costs. They are paying for their own retirement because they know that by the time they get to retirement age there is not going to be enough cash in the kitty to give them proper superannuation, and they are paying for their parents\u2019 retirements through taxation in the form of the existing superannuation scheme. So the current generation of families who are working are getting squeezed in terms of paying for three generations at once. In removing this incentive you are actually making it even harder for intergenerational equity to take place. I would like some kind of sense of what your plan is to redress some of the intergenerational issues that arise out of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe fifth point is around the short term versus the long term. I think Labour have already made this point very well and frequently in the course of this debate, which is that every time the Government gets concerned about its short-term books it relies on kicking the can down the road in terms of the long-term fiscal sustainability of the country. They cut the contributions to the superannuation fund in order to try to maintain the books now. Now they are cutting the KiwiSaver incentive, basically balancing the books from New Zealand\u2019s superannuation schemes and retirement schemes. I would like some sense of what your long-term plan is. How are you going to fix the long-term future rather than just deal with the short term?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThose are my main points. What is the Government\u2019s plan to deal with New Zealand\u2019s savings rate? What is the Government\u2019s plan to deal with the loss of the incentive that then happens, and how do they expect the rate of take-up to stay the same or even increase? What is the impact on the rate of take-up of KiwiSaver when the incentive is lost? Why did they not consider a window to get people in who were thinking about it\u2014the third point? The fourth point is around intergenerational equity. The fifth point is around the long term versus the short-term nature of this decision. There are five questions there that I would like answered during the course of this debate, more bombastically or less bombastically, as takes your pleasure. But I would like to hear those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EMiddle to low income earners are struggling to save. We know that. Under National, those who are saving are the people who really can save\u2014that is, upper-middle and upper-income families. What this legislation does is this takes away the incentive and a little bit of savings for people at the bottom end of the pile, people who could not get a thousand dollars together. What is your plan for the impact on inequality that the loss of this $1,000 is going to have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe have got a number of Supplementary Order Papers that will come up during the next part of the debate, which are in relation to restoring or retaining the $1,000 kick-start for people who have got community services cards, which would deal with some of those issues. We have got the Kids\u2019 KiwiSaver programme that we launched a couple of weeks ago, with a progressive savings component to it\u2014all of which is designed to deal with some of the issues that I have raised during the course of this debate. I just wanted to flag that we will be speaking to those soon. We have got some ideas about how to deal with some of those issues. I would like to hear what the Government\u2019s plan is for dealing with those kinds of issues. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e026ef9378924acc898cc6f7836e0bf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e026ef9378924acc898cc6f7836e0bf5\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E If I could continue along the same vein as the previous speaker, James Shaw, and bring some facts and some intelligent discussion rather than abuse into this morning\u2019s proceedings. Let us take an example used yesterday. Take a 15-year-old who is about to open a KiwiSaver account today. If they had done it before this $1,000 incentive was removed, that $1,000 would actually be\u2014and these are not generous calculations, they are quite modest\u2014at the time of that person\u2019s retirement given a 10 percent return, which is actually reasonable considering the annual rates of return of KiwiSaver funds at the current moment, over 50 years the calculation is about $117,000 to $145,000 at retirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217d4921c3a0d47c794924a451f2a9f27\u0022\u003EClayton Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222900f777a93d4750aedbced5dfd02f56\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: It is $117,000 to $145,000 at retirement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI said yesterday that we might be balancing the books at the moment. It might look like you are balancing the books now, but what you are doing is robbing those sums of money from future generations. That range, like I said, is modest, and the multiplier effect on your annual returns, the compounding interest effect, is such a powerful thing. It has been spoken about in this House many times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EConsider the reality out in the typical Kiwi household. The median income for a Kiwi is still less than $30,000 per annum. That $1,000 was not only a drawcard, it was a real and meaningful sum of money. At the end of its investment life it was\u2014it really was\u2014going to make a huge difference in the enjoyment of life for those retiring. The Government has taken away $145,000 in real terms from our future generations, for those who would like to retire with some dignity, from every person who missed out under this retrospective piece of legislation. This Government\u2019s vision stretches only to the end of today. Mr English is literally robbing our children\u2019s piggy banks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThis surprise bill opens up questions about uptake, the impact on our national and individual savings, and, as mentioned already, the fairness, or lack thereof, across generations. The advice given to the Government on this bill was, \u201CThe analysis has not focussed on the effect of policy options on national saving\u201D. I will just repeat that: \u201CThe analysis has not focussed on the effect of policy options on national saving\u201D. Here we are talking about $1,000 contributing to national savings, but the advice given to the Government, the analysis of the policy itself, does not take into account national savings. It beggars belief. In the first part the officials have admitted that the bill ignores the problems of savings and then they say \u201Cthe analysis is concerned with addressing the poor\u201D\u2014supposedly I would put\u2014\u201Cvalue for money and target effectiveness (leakage) of KiwiSaver subsidies.\u201D Apparently we are told that the value for money and target effectiveness of KiwiSaver subsidies just is not there any more. The $1,000 is not much of an incentive any more. I will come back to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EEarlier I highlighted that although $1,000 may seem like a small sum, we are talking about people on the median income in New Zealand of less than $30,000. It is actually around $28,000. I know the National caucus will not understand what that means, but $28,000 and trying to save $1,000 from that\u2014try to do that in a year. No, I do not think you could. I have been there; you cannot do it. Try to do that over 10 years, and, actually, you will not get a chance to grow your savings pool on the New Zealand median income, and the Government has now taken away that little incentive, that difference we spoke about last night and today\u2014motivation for savings. Now the Government is taking it away. What the Government has not discussed is the future value of $1,000 at retirement age. I will say it again: $145,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EConsider those living in the regions of New Zealand\u2014the productive heart of this country\u2014who are currently not able to share in the wealth they create. Just think how hugely they will be affected by the removal of this incentive. Look at the unemployment rate in provincial New Zealand, remembering, actually, that an hour of work per week is measured or ticked in the employment column. An hour of work a week is considered as being employed. It is 9.9 percent in Northland, 7.8 percent in my home region of the Bay of Plenty, and it goes on. On top of this the Government must acknowledge that regional incomes are well below the national average. What is the Government doing to our regions? It really is such a small amount of money now compared with the value that it presents in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI said yesterday that the supposed savings on the Government\u2019s books today for every individual Kiwi still not signed up will be approximately $120 million a year for the first 4 years. As the fund reaches critical mass in terms of people subscribed, contributions will decline. So these miniscule savings are short term and short-lived. They are not actually saving this country anything at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe Minister has removed the incentive to save. Actually, do not think about the regions now; think about this in the context of Auckland. People are not going to save. That $1,000 was a real and meaningful incentive. People in Auckland are living day by day. The costs of living in our biggest city are just gigantic, and the Government has taken away the opportunity or incentive of Aucklanders to get into a savings scheme where they might have been able to subsidise their superannuation. It has taken it away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EWe have been speaking to Grey Power members, and they noted: \u201CThe axing of the $1,000 start-up boost for KiwiSaver contributors means that many New Zealanders will be much poorer when they retire as it removes a vital incentive for workers to join up and means more people will be dependent solely on their superannuation on retirement.\u201D They go on further to say: \u201CMany New Zealanders currently aged 45 to 65 do not own homes and those who do are actually still paying mortgages. They are on low incomes and are not enrolled in KiwiSaver. They are already facing increasing rental costs in a tight housing market made worse by the removal of many State houses across the country.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EEven though many Grey Power members have missed out totally on the KiwiSaver programme they know that this Government is robbing from their children and their grandchildren. This bill does nothing for the children of this country in a time of Generation Rent, skyrocketing house prices, high student fees, and the loans that go with that. This bill is not fair or reasoned. I can expect soon that everyone will be automatically enrolled, with the rest of New Zealand made to compulsorily join the scheme. I suppose this bill makes compulsion cheaper. The cynicism is hard to take, to be fair. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4c096a25c8841b4a525c17ae4dad3e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4c096a25c8841b4a525c17ae4dad3e1\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E I quite like Fletcher Tabuteau, but I have to say that if I were a pupil in \u201CProfessor\u201D Tabuteau\u2019s economics class, I would be quitting and asking for a refund, because that speech was woeful. But I do like Mr Tabuteau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhat a contrast it has been between last night and this morning. Last night at 5 to midnight the Government benches here were full. We had 30 or 40 Government MPs here backing our Ministers, backing this Budget, and backing these important bills that we are passing this morning and last night. There were only three or four Labour MPs last night at 5 to midnight. Something has twigged in the Labour Party overnight, and that is that Andrew Little\u2019s leadership is in mortal danger. What do we see this morning? They have flooded the Opposition benches\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d20818059e5640c084d23fe53ff2f460\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I would actually like to hear what the member is saying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217f0263685574dec8e338cac2f17d7a3\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but he should be talking about the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8747e21854b4c9ebcb7709d13539a08\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: If I could hear what the member was saying, I would know whether he was talking on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293bc011e31d64b3a962062335a24703f\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Assistant Speaker. I was making the point that when we were debating the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill last night, the contrast with this morning is very, very stark. The Labour Party twigged overnight that Mr Little\u2019s speech in the Budget reply debate on Thursday was so woeful that his leadership is now in danger. The Labour members have had to come down here this morning for this KiwiSaver bill and flood the Opposition benches to hear another appalling speech from Andrew Little about matters that are important to the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt was an interesting contrast with the Budget and this bill, was it not? We had the members on the Government benches outlining a clear programme of action, including for this bill, and the members on the Opposition benches had nothing to say\u2014absolutely nothing\u2014about the benefit increases the National Government is passing. The party of the dispossessed, the party of the disenfranchised, the party of the working poor, the party of the workers, and the party of beneficiaries\u2014what did it have to say about the National Government\u2019s increase in benefit levels? Not a sausage. It is disgraceful. Then the Labour members come down here for this bill and they cry crocodile tears about the prudent and sensible\u2014prudent and sensible\u2014cuts that the Government is making to KiwiSaver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ELet us get some facts on the table. No. 1: there are 2.5 million people in KiwiSaver already. OK? That is fact No. 1: 2.5 million people in KiwiSaver. It has proven to be very, very popular. When Michael Cullen set up KiwiSaver back in 2006, by this stage the prediction was that there would be 700,000 people in KiwiSaver. That target has been smashed, absolutely exceeded. It has been a huge success. It has been extraordinarily successful\u2014far in excess of what the architects of the scheme would ever have predicted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EBut that leads to the second fact, and this is the second fact that is important to remember. No. 2: the $1,000 kick-start contribution has been very expensive. The Government has spent $2.5 billion over the last 7 years on the kick-start contribution. At the time of the global financial crisis and the Canterbury rebuild, and at the time at which, as the members opposite rightly and adroitly point out so often, we are trying to get the books back into the black, $2.5 billion is a decent chunk of change. The ongoing fiscal costs of that are also very expensive. It is very expensive and KiwiSaver has been proven to be popular. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhat that means now\u2014and this is a very important point about this bill\u2014is that this is now a \u201Cnice to have\u201D. It is not necessary. There are 2.5 million New Zealanders in KiwiSaver already. Let us not forget the existing incentives that remain to continue in KiwiSaver\u2014the member tax credit of $521 a year, the employment contributions that employers are required to pay. So there are plenty of good reasons to join KiwiSaver and we on this side of the House are sure that we will continue to have it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EMembers opposite cry crocodile tears and there are huge amounts of hyperbole about how we are taking the ladder away. Well, sorry, but removing the $1,000 kick-start contribution for joining an already generous scheme that will provide for people\u2019s lives in the long term is not taking the ladder away from somebody. Taking the ladder away might be opposing important changes to benefit levels like the first ones that have been made in 43 years. The party of the dispossessed and the poor has nothing to say about the fact it is the National Government that is actually making life better for those least well off in our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThen we get to what Labour has promised and the schmozzle it has had in the last couple of days about its stance on superannuation and its stance on KiwiSaver. Grant Robertson, in one line, spent $500 million of the next Labour Government Budget, which, hopefully, will never happen. In the unlikely event that it does, he spent $500 million in one line when he was asked on the Stuff chat website whether he would commit to bringing back the $1,000 kick-start contribution, and he said yes. OK, that is fine. You can make that choice. It is the role of the Opposition to outline alternative fiscal spending plans. But that one line, those three letters typed away\u2014or that a staffer had typed on the Stuff chat website\u2014cost the Government $500 million over 4 years, and it is just in line with the Labour Party\u2019s big spending agenda. You can add it to the very long spreadsheet that exists of Labour Party spending promises that Mr Cunliffe promised at the last election, that Mr Shearer promised at the election before that, and that Phil Goff promised at the election before that: the promise to start the Cullen fund superannuation contributions again, the promise to bring back Moroccan cooking course subsidies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ERemember that? Remember when the Labour Party was outraged about the fact that we were making middle-class people who wanted to do macram\u00E9 classes and Moroccan cooking classes at their local high school actually pay for them themselves as opposed to getting money from the taxpayer for them to go and learn how to rub spices on chickens. How ridiculous! So we are going to add this very expensive promise to bring back the KiwiSaver kick-start contribution to the very long list of promises that the Labour Party has made. Labour members have absolutely no fiscal credibility whatsoever. They took us into recession before the global financial crisis, they left us with a decade of deficits, and now they have the temerity to come down to this House and complain about debt and about how we are not back into surplus. Well, their record speaks for itself. It is appalling and they should be apologising to New Zealanders for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThis is an important part of the Government\u2019s post-Budget measures to continue this economy on its growth track and to continue to provide support to the most vulnerable New Zealanders. It is telling that on a Saturday morning the Government is removing, essentially, a form of middle-class welfare, a \u201Cnice-to-have\u201D but something that is not necessary any more. We are removing that and instead we are supporting beneficiaries and the working poor. We find ourselves in this weird parallel universe where the Labour Party is supporting $1,000 for people who, frankly, do not need it and opposing more money for the working poor whom they have liked to cry crocodile tears about for the last 9 years\u2014disgraceful!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00220d48824d4e104bb59bf5ffe591492d31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d48824d4e104bb59bf5ffe591492d31\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The next call is a split call. [Interruption] Order! The next call is a split call. Jan Logie\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00227f15f2ef98eb472182e948eccb5a9398\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f15f2ef98eb472182e948eccb5a9398\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the second reading of the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill. Traditionally in Parliament second readings are the time when we reflect on the select committee process, when we feed back what submitters have raised with the committee. After consideration and debate within the committee we reflect on those discussions in the House and the amendments to the bill that have happened as a result of that. Of course, because again this is happening under urgency, this speech is not able to be as fully developed as it would have been otherwise, and the public have not had that opportunity to have input.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo what I would like to focus on in this speech are the few comments I have been able to gather from people in New Zealand, through Facebook, on their views on this initiative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226480c202e5b0419f8ff26260aeb70f9b\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Real submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240c4b37c4ff74a58bfc4b7270101d31e\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, some actual submissions. That is what I am going to do in this speech. The first one is actually not necessarily disagreeing with the Government\u2019s view and what it is doing here. This is an academic whom I know, who is saying: \u201CI am in mixed minds. I think it\u2019s very disappointing they have further downgraded the incentive for people to save for their old age. But at the same time I\u2019d be interested in seeing the demographics of those enrolled in KiwiSaver, to know whether the kick-start was effectively operating as a wealth transfer from the poor to the rich, in which case removing the kick-start would bother me less than if it was operating the other way. Now, I\u2019d like to see that evidence from the Government so that, actually, this country and this Parliament can make a considered decision around that.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESome of the other comments from now on are a bit clearer on their view about this initiative. Brenda Pilott, ex-head of the Public Service Association, is saying: \u201CIt\u2019s an inexplicable move. We\u2019re told that it\u2019s vital people create savings for their retirement, and KiwiSaver has been a great success, partly due to this incentive. It makes no sense to cut it.\u201D Another person, Jacob, is saying: \u201CI feel like it\u2019s making things harder for us future generations to save up for housing and retirement. This was a positive boost from the Government, which I saw as a good incentive to join, but now I\u2019m like \u2018Why join?\u2019 I might as well just put my money into a savings account and then I can use it when I want, however I want, and it won\u2019t be there for retirement.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAnother person is saying: \u201CBefore KiwiSaver was introduced I\u2019d never saved a cent in my life. I decided to join because of the kick-starter and have now got a tidy wee sum accumulating every month and I feel proud of that.\u201D So the incentive, the kick-start, was an incentive for somebody to save for the first time in their life, and that is backed up by policy advice from the Inland Revenue Department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAnother person was saying: \u201CThey should have given 3 months for those of us who were halfway through the paperwork for our kids to have a chance to get this incentive.\u201D So the fact that this has been brought in without any notice means that some people were halfway through the paperwork to get this incentive for their children, and they have missed out. So again, as raised by my colleague, I would like to hear the justification for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe have heard from Government members that \u201CTwo and a half million people have signed up. Really\u2014how many more people are going to do it?\u201D. Well, some people were halfway through doing it. Somebody else is saying on that point: \u201CGlad I took advice from the bank when I opened up an account for my daughter. But I hadn\u2019t got on to it for my baby. Gutted she missed out.\u201D One other person says: \u201CYeah, working for the people, huh? Note the kids these days just got set back yet another grand to buy that house they\u2019ll never have because some old dudes in Parliament wanted a teeny surplus. Pathetic.\u201D Another person is saying: \u201CSo this cut\u2019s going to fund our $200 million fight against ISIS. What are you not telling us, John?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThese are some of the views of New Zealanders, and, again we have been told by this Government that there is no choice but to do this if it is going to be fiscally responsible. It is interesting what it focuses on and what it is not focusing on in that discussion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4e13e4ea39243d4a6c609c7f5da74be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4e13e4ea39243d4a6c609c7f5da74be\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022640438593797423eb177b2e2662f6ef3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022640438593797423eb177b2e2662f6ef3\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E There is an old saying \u201CFollow the money.\u201D and so too with this piece of legislation. This country was built on capital from England coming into this country and we have been told for many, many years that we have been very poor savers. So, that terrible Tory Robert Muldoon destroyed what was a Labour Party initiative through the good work of Kirk and Rowling to build up a superannuation scheme and savings that would have given our country proper savings and proper investment funds. The terrible Tory Muldoon destroyed that and so too does this Tory Government intend to destroy the savings scheme we have. Michael Cullen brought in KiwiSaver, Kiwibank, and the Superannuation Fund to offer us security in superannuation and to encourage savings that would have given this country real investment capital\u2014and indeed that has occurred. But what we have got now is a Tory Government intent on destroying that savings ethic. It is not the $1,000 that has given real effect here to the cuts; it is the disincentive to the hundreds of thousands of Kiwis out there who have wanted to get into KiwiSaver. This will destroy that incentive. Why? Well, follow the money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIf we have, as we do now, a building capital fund to invest in our future, to take ownership of our own assets, we can control our own destiny. But I will tell you what\u2014if you are a Tory, a money trader, or a traitor you do not want that. You do not want that. So what we have got is Jenny Shipley, Chris Tremain, and Don Brash in charge now of Chinese banks that are coming in to this country with trillions of dollars available to invest in New Zealand. KiwiSaver, the Superannuation Fund, and Kiwibank are the only fair, honest New Zealand players to counter that investment. What this bunch of terrible Tories is doing is exactly the same as Robert Muldoon did: undermining the ability of New Zealanders to invest in our future through a building capital fund that has real wealth and real capability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI think it is an absolute outrage that the Government is taking from New Zealanders, from young New Zealanders, the incentive to invest in the future, not just in their own personal accounts but in the building of a capital fund that can invest in the value-added investment we need. In fact, we have got Ruth Richardson in the ANZ bank trotting around the country at the moment saying two things: firstly, that cooperatives are no good, so get rid of Fonterra; the second thing she is saying is that we need billions of dollars to grow this economy into the future. And who is going to provide that? Oh, your mate Jenny Shipley through her Chinese bank, your mate Chris Tremain through a Chinese bank, and Don Brash as well. The Tory Government in power now wants to undermine the growing focus on savings and investment from within this country. I think it is an outrage and I think this is a treacherous act that might seem on the face of it just fiscal responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAs the bill says quite honestly, this \u201Cwill achieve significant fiscal savings\u201D, but then it goes on to say a ridiculous statement that cutting back this $1,000 \u201Cwill therefore improve the value for money of this KiwiSaver scheme.\u201D This is about undermining the objectives of the KiwiSaver scheme. It is about undermining the savings ethic of a country that has just started to realise the value in that. And the Tory mates in here and the ones out there are conspiring to ensure that we are fed a diet of foreign investment in capital rather than that built up by our own people for our own future. This is an outrageous piece of legislation, and I am sure Nick Smith is going to get up on his hind legs and say it is wonderful. Justify what Jenny Shipley is doing. Justify how you can take a $1,000 incentive away from the young New Zealanders who want to own their own future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022da2310c993854f008a97aa19c67ff877\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da2310c993854f008a97aa19c67ff877\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E That speech from Damien O\u2019Connor was another speech that shows just how financially illiterate people are on the Opposition benches. Here is their line: you borrow to save, because the only way the Government, in the next year, would be able to provide the $1,000 kick-start for KiwiSaver is to borrow the money. The members opposite have got this sort of smoke and mirrors approach that if the Government goes and borrows money to save, somehow you are better off. That is a loopiness that reflects why they are on those benches and we are over here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe second point I wish to make is in respect of the issue of New Zealand\u2019s net foreign investment position. I agree with Mr O\u2019Connor that it is absolutely critical that we grow the net wealth of this country, but I want to invite the member to have a look at the Budget tables. What they show is that over the course of the years that Mr Damien O\u2019Connor was in Government, New Zealand\u2019s net investment position declined in every single year. In fact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca4cecc892734311895eabb5925f2363\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: How much did you borrow, Nick?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de25415e5ddb45e5a6425e649ba14e24\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: In fact, Mr O\u2019Connor, look at the figures for 2008, in which New Zealand\u2019s balance of payments was a record worst in 50 years of minus 9 percent. Look at what New Zealand\u2019s net investment position was when you left the Treasury benches, where we had reached the point of minus 100 percent of GDP, a figure that has consistently improved, and these Budget documents show that it is continuing to improve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet us come to KiwiSaver. When I sat where Damien O\u2019Connor sits, on the Opposition benches, the Government of the day said that it had a target that by 2015 there would be 700,000 people in KiwiSaver\u2014700,000. Do you know how many people are in KiwiSaver now as a consequence of the changed savings culture? There are 2.4 million in KiwiSaver\u20142.4 million. So how can the members opposite bleat, whinge, and moan that we have not changed the savings culture of New Zealand when we now have 2.4 million people, over three times as many\u2014three times as many\u2014as the architect of KiwiSaver promised us back in 2007 when the scheme was launched? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut I want to talk about broader superannuation issues. I listened to the radio yesterday and heard the Leader of the Opposition say that it is now Labour Party policy to means test superannuation. I was saying to myself: \u201CWell, that sounds a little bit like policy on the hoof.\u201D I could hear the jitters right through Labour\u2019s ranks as it realised that its latest Leader of the Opposition had suffered a severe dose\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e37a47d1ef8a4906b9e8756b1b96750e\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: This Budget is policy on the hoof.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227483fbeb6ccd4189901e4fc394b20bb9\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry. Does that member support the means test for superannuation? Answer the question. Answer the question. Does the member support his leader\u2019s statement yesterday that Labour wants to means test superannuation? You see, what we know is going on is that Andrew Little has a secret plan for New Zealand and he will not come clean. We found out yesterday. We got a window into his ideas for New Zealand. He has got a sneaky plan to change New Zealand superannuation, which I know in my electorate in Nelson will see support for Labour further plummeting from the lowest levels ever that it achieved in the 2014 election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EYou see, the problem is that members opposite know how to moan. They are quite good at it. They know how to whinge. They know how to criticise. But they are absolutely blank when it comes to a positive plan to take this country forward. It is illustrated by what has happened with the bills flowing from this year\u2019s Budget. You see, they have criticised the support we are providing in our children in hardship package, and then voted for the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut here is the contradiction. Members opposite cannot vote for a bill that provides for more support for New Zealand\u2019s poorest families in one breath, then in the next breath vote against the changes that will enable us to fund that, and then in the third breath criticise us because the surplus is not big enough. Well, I am sorry, it is time for them to go back to primer 1 or year 1 maths. Your numbers have to add up. Budgets are about choices. We are making wise choices that enable us to support those families that are most in need, while at the same time being fiscally responsible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EMy very last point is this. I have heard in this Budget debate the whingeing and moaning about the variation of the Government\u2019s Budget figures that showed that over the last year, rather than receiving a surplus of 0.4 percent of a billion dollars, we have a deficit of 0.6 percent of a billion dollars\u2014a variation of 1 percent. I would remind members opposite, before they give one of those chest-pumping, vein-breaking speeches about the evils of that, of what happened in Labour\u2019s last Budget. It promised a surplus of $1.3 billion. It actually delivered a deficit of over $3 billion and was out by over $5 billion. That is, it was out by 8 percent in its numbers. Bill English was out by 1 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EMembers on this side know the definition of good fiscal management. We are the first OECD country to be back in the black. We have got increasing surpluses into future years\u2014increasing surpluses into future years. That is a fiscal record to be proud of, and if any member doubts it, I just ask them to have a look across the Tasman, where last week the Australian Government delivered a Budget with a $40 billion deficit\u2014a $40 billion deficit\u2014and deficits out into the next 3 years. That just illustrates how well we are doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe final proof of the pudding is this. New Zealanders know we are doing well. That is why this month, for the first time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221542768945914af8a819066e3b8a9ff8\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: No, they don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d297693aed4aef816ff670d6240803\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, they do not? Well, explain this. Why is it that for the first time in 20 years there are more New Zealanders choosing to come home than leaving? Are they wrong? They are absolutely right. They know that this is a country that is doing well, a country that has a plan, a country that has a Prime Minister and a Deputy Prime Minister who mean what they say and do what they say, as illustrated in this Budget. I am proud to be part of it and part of this bill, which is part of ensuring fiscal discipline and the right choices for our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022e04d7f2bde99450698f4a40fed5f248a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e04d7f2bde99450698f4a40fed5f248a\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Would you really believe the numbers coming out of the head of that man, Nick Smith, the \u201CMinister for Housing Inflation\u201D? Here is a number for you: $800,000\u2014$800,000. That is the average price of an Auckland home today and that has occurred under that man\u2019s watch. So when he stands up and tells you about numbers, do not even believe it. The worst inflation in New Zealand\u2019s housing history has happened under his watch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EIf there is a Budget that separates this side of the House from the other it is this Budget, and it is about \u201Cshort-termism\u201D versus putting something away for the future. This change to KiwiSaver is exactly\u2014exactly\u2014what I am talking about in terms of good fiscal management. It is about broken promises. Here is a promise I want to read out to you. Here is a promise I want to read out to you: \u201CThe $1,000 kick-start for KiwiSaver\u2019s members will remain as it is now.\u201D\u2014will remain as it is now. Who said that in 2011? Well, the Prime Minister said that\u2014the Prime Minister said that. It is another broken promise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThis Government is going down the same track as its ancestors did back in the 1970s when Muldoon came in and killed the superannuation budget that was around then. He pulled it apart. People had accepted it. People believed and knew that that was going to ensure that their savings were protected and that New Zealand would have a pool of investment for the future. That pool, if that vandal Robert Muldoon had not pulled it apart, would have been worth $280 billion today\u2014$280 billion. The big point about this is not just about the ability to save and to ensure that that is there for the people in the future. It is also about ensuring that that money, that $280 billion, is able to be invested into the New Zealand economy. It does not require us to sell off our assets. It does not require us to go into debt\u2014and this Government has gone $70 billion into debt. It enables us to invest in our future with our own money. This Government axed that. It poleaxed that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ELet us look at what has happened. In the same tradition as the Muldoon Government and the same tradition of not looking at the future and looking at cynical, short-term, smart alec Budgets, what has happened here over the last few years is this Government has gone on and progressively cut and chopped KiwiSaver. Let us go back and have a look at what the legacy of this Government is with regard to KiwiSaver, because this is not the only time it has stepped in and had a chop at KiwiSaver and tried to vandalise it. The minimum member contribution\u2014remember that? That was 4 percent. That got cut to 2 percent in 2009. It was a cut. There is the first one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe second one is the member fee subsidy. That was cut in 2009\u2014another cut to KiwiSaver and the incentives of KiwiSaver. Here is a third one: compulsory employer contributions. They were cut by that Government in 2009. That is three\u2014three cuts to KiwiSaver since this Government has been in power. Four: employer tax credits\u2014cut. Employers no longer have an incentive. That was cut and taken away. There are four changes to KiwiSaver that this Government has brought in. Five: the member tax credit\u2014cut by $500 to members who used to get that. That was back in 2012. The last one today that has happened under this Budget is the KiwiSaver kick-start\u2014cut. One thousand dollars has been removed from future generations\u2014and it was given to those guys over there, for sure, and their families. They made sure that their families got their $1,000 before they stepped in and chopped it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThey were making a big play over on that side of the House that, somehow, this is not going to affect the take-up of people in KiwiSaver. Let us face it; KiwiSaver is fantastically successful\u2014fantastically successful. Two and a half million people in New Zealand have signed up for KiwiSaver. Two and a half million people have gone into that system so that they can start saving for their retirement. What does the Inland Revenue Department say about that? In its analysis, from people it has asked and the various surveys it has done, what does it say? Well, here is a fact. The Inland Revenue Department\u2014a Government department\u2014says that 67 percent of members joined KiwiSaver because of the kick-start. Two-thirds of those people joining KiwiSaver voluntarily did so because of the kick-start. This Government\u2014the vandal that it is, the \u201Cshort-termism\u201D that it is\u2014has gone out and removed that and removed that incentive. It is like you have got a successful policy and what you do is you keep cutting and cutting it and cutting it and cutting it until it falls over. Then the Government will blame it on somebody else or it will not be in Government. It will leave it to us to actually have to fix up. This is a travesty. This is a Budget about \u201Cshort-termism\u201D, broken promises, and not looking out for future generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EBut look, do not take our word on how stupid this policy is. Let us take the Financial Services Council\u2019s word. The Financial Services Council chair is Jenny Shipley, a former National Prime Minister, and what does it say? What does it say about this policy of cutting the KiwiSaver kick-start? Listen to this: \u201CThis is like a parent raiding their own child\u2019s piggy bank to pay for a round of drinks already promised down at the pub.\u201D Let me read that again, just in case you did not get it clear. This is not coming from the Labour Party; this is coming from the Financial Services Council. \u201CThis is like a parent raiding their own child\u2019s piggy bank to pay for a round of drinks already promised down at the pub.\u201D Does that not say it all? It is about \u201Cshort-termism\u201D, looking at what is in front of you, smart alec, gimmicky little promises, and forgetting about what is actually happening further down the road for the future generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u201CRaiding the piggy banks\u201D\u2014the council goes on to say\u2014\u201Cof the next generation is not the smartest move when the population is ageing. It is a pity, that the Government\u2019s failure to manage its own finances, will hold back some younger New Zealanders from better managing their own future finances.\u201D In other words, not only is this stupid but also it sets an extraordinarily unfortunate example to everybody else out there who says: \u201CLook out for yourself now because who knows what is going to happen in the future.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe issue about retirement policies is that they are about certainty. You invest in them now, hoping that everything will be fixed and right in 20, 30, or 40 years\u2019 time. When with every single Budget, this Government comes in and cuts, cuts, cuts what people have come to believe is their right\u2014and when they are putting in their money every week on the understanding that there is going to be some sort of nest egg at the end, and this Government comes in and cuts it and changes it every single time\u2014then they have no confidence in it. Suddenly, we kill what has been a fabulous means of being able to save and being able to invest in New Zealand\u2019s future. This Government is about \u201Cshort-termism\u201D, it is about broken promises, and it does not deserve to be sitting on that side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022abf614383c0647faaeb64cebd6ab04ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abf614383c0647faaeb64cebd6ab04ed\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E It has been a perverse couple of days, I have got to say. We announced a policy of providing $790 million to families in need\u2014and it is a great thing to do for New Zealand families\u2014and, yet, we have got an Opposition saying: \u201CNo, we do not want to support that.\u201D Then we have got an Opposition that says: \u201CWe should not be removing this $1,000 subsidy for the KiwiSaver.\u201D and that it wants to support other people. Then, at the same time, we have got an Opposition saying that we need to be in surplus. The reality is I just cannot see how the Opposition can make those numbers work. What we are doing is actually focusing on the people who really need it. That is why we are putting $790 million into a scheme that is going to support the people whom, normally, the Opposition wants to support. We are the ones who want to care for them. We are the ones who want to respect them. It is not only a financial package; it goes with all the other things that we are doing, such as the free doctors visits for children under 13. It is also about providing better housing for those families in need. It is about getting better outcomes for the children from those families in need, and that is why this Government is so focused on it. I just cannot understand why this Opposition wants to stop all of these good measures that support these families in need. It is disappointing; it is actually illogical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI just actually want to now turn to the KiwiSaver issue itself. As our colleague before just spoke of, the original target was to get 700,000 people into KiwiSaver. Luckily, and with good management and with setting the right parameters, we have got 2.5 million people in this KiwiSaver scheme\u20142.5 million New Zealanders who have invested in it. That is a fantastic thing and I think that we should be celebrating that. But what people do not understand is that there are still very strong incentives to continue to invest in KiwiSaver and to want to join that scheme. I point to the $521 per annum that will be paid automatically by this Government into everyone\u2019s KiwiSaver account when they turn 18 or when they get a job\u2014$521 per annum every year until they retire. The second thing is that there is now another strong incentive for people to want to join this scheme, and that is because we have introduced this package of housing measures\u2014the KiwiSaver HomeStart grant package\u2014which means that people should invest in KiwiSaver because they can access more money to get the first deposit to buy their first home. That is why there are still incredibly strong incentives to be involved in this KiwiSaver scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI now just want to turn to some advice we received from the other side of the House. I heard these strange figures. If you invested $1,000\u2014and I presume that is from when you are born\u2014due to compounding interest, I think the figure was that you would get to $140,000. I sat down before and did just a couple of little calculations, and I am just struggling to make it work. Let us assume that from year zero to 65 years old, we are averaging, say, a 5 percent per annum return. I realise that because of the wonderful management of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, we are achieving 10 percent, but I have used the figure for the long-term run average of 5 percent. Actually if you used discount rates and things, you are normally work about 6 percent, but anyway, at 5 percent, do you know what the figure is? It is certainly not $140,000. If you invested the $1,000 at day one, it would actually be worth about $23,600 over 65 years. That is just a far cry from what I heard from over on the other side. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ELook, the reality is what we are doing with that $1,000 is diverting it to the people who we believe need it most. I just cannot understand why anyone in this House would want to sit there and shout out and decry what this Government is doing. This is about a Government that cares about families and that has done concrete things to make it achieve those things that will improve the lifestyle of these people, create jobs, and give them the dignity and the respect that they deserve. I commend this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228b03269bd54b4b069fe209293daa5df7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4034b50c06e464bb41c068183d1d2eb\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd14573033ca42d6873aace11255e2a5\u0022\u003EClause 1  Title\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u002251e343194e354a62a64a90cac5058be7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251e343194e354a62a64a90cac5058be7\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I am very glad to speak to this bill because we are firm in opposing it. We believe that this is a bill that is stealing from the future of New Zealand. We heard David Shearer in the previous contribution read out something from the Financial Services Council that talked about robbing the kids\u2019 piggybank to go down to the pub to buy a beer. That is the organisation that Jenny Shipley chairs. That is an organisation that is independent of this House, and it can see clearly that this bill steals from the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EMy first suggested amendment is, of course, to the title. I think that this bill should be called the \u201CStolen Futures Bill\u201D because it is a bill that is stealing from future generations. In New Zealand we have a capital issue. We have had a capital issue for a long time. Treasury, in the 1970s, had somebody sitting at a desk trying to work out how to ensure that we had more savings. It still has people sitting at desks trying to work out how we can get more savings. Here we have the Government in a panicked measure\u2014in a panicked measure\u2014trying to balance the books because it has broken another election promise. It was the No. 1 election promise in all of National\u2019s pamphlets\u2014\u201CWe will get to surplus in the next Budget\u201D. It is a broken promise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThose members are trying to patch that over. They are trying to make it look not too bad, but, actually, there is a billion dollars\u2019 difference between how things looked last Budget and how things look now\u2014a billion-dollar black hole has opened. Their way of getting there is not by reversing any of the early tax cuts they made when they gave the top 10 percent 40 percent of the value of the tax cuts. No, they did not consider doing that. What they said they would do is take out of the hands of future generations, out of the hands of children, a $1,000 KiwiSaver kick-starter. That is what constitutes vision now from this Government. That is what constitutes vision. That is the big idea in the Budget\u2014\u201CLet\u2019s take 1,000 bucks off the kids.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWell, that is shameful. That is no future. That is a \u201CStolen Futures Bill\u201D. It is not a bill that should simply be called the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill. That is an Orwellian description of what is going on here. We know that this is National hitting the panic button, saying that it has failed to get to surplus for the seventh time in a row\u2014in contrast to Labour\u2019s nine surpluses in a row\u2014and, with that, it is taking from the pockets of children. As I have said, the Financial Services Council is saying that this is money taken out of kids\u2019 piggybanks to buy beer at the pub. Well, that is a pretty clear picture. That is the stolen future. That is what it looks like for Kiwi children and for Kiwi workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EAustralia, which does have a decent savings set-up for retirement, has got $1.3 trillion in the bank. That money is waiting for small-business people to come along and invest to build the economy. In New Zealand, if Muldoon had not shut down a similar scheme, we would have had hundreds of billions of dollars. National Governments before this one have lacked vision, and this one is in the pattern\u2014this one is in the pattern. That is why we are opposing this bill. It should be called the \u201CStolen Futures Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI want to also suggest that it could be called the \u201CRobbing Peter to Pay Paul Bill\u201D. In this Budget the Government has brought in some measures to help those who are at the hardest end of things. Of course, the Government made some big cuts in the 1990s, and this, in real terms, certainly will not compensate for those. The Government has done some good in the Budget, and we want to acknowledge that, but we do not think that that good stuff should happen at the expense of those who are just a couple of rungs further up the ladder\u2014those who are working hard, struggling to get ahead, and having money taken out of their pockets so that this Government can get to an imaginary surplus, which it will never get to if it does not have a vision. It will never actually get there if it does not have a vision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Government is reliant on commodity price cycles. It has failed to diversify the economy. It has failed to get to the target of 40 percent of exports, which it set for itself. Exports are now below 30 percent, and they are dropping. They have dropped from last year and are projected to drop further in the year ahead. That is because the economy as it stands currently is built on immigration and the money flowing in for the earthquake recovery. That is not the way to build an economy. Successful economies overseas have diversified. They have not robbed Peter to pay Paul. They have not taken money out of kids\u2019 pockets. They have not taken money out of hard-working New Zealanders\u2019 pockets in order to try to achieve an imaginary surplus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe third title that I want to suggest might be more appropriate is the \u201CNo Vision Bill\u201D. The reason I think the title \u201CNo Vision Bill\u201D is appropriate is that that is exactly what this bill shows. This bill shows no vision. This is a Government that has no plan. It has panicked. If we needed any evidence of that, we could turn to the regulatory impact statement prepared by Treasury. Paragraph 1 says: \u201CThis regulatory impact statement has been prepared by the Treasury in consultation with Inland Revenue.\u201D; paragraph 2 says: \u201CThe advice was requested in advance of Budget 2015 and therefore has been prepared urgently.\u201D\u2014urgently. This was a quick fix because the Government was out of pocket; it was heading for deficit again. The Government did not even get to surplus, but it thought it would have a go at robbing the pockets of hard-working New Zealanders, middle New Zealanders, in order to try to get close. Well, the Government has got egg on its face. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThen if we skip down to paragraph 4, we see: \u201CThe analysis has not focussed on the effect of policy options on national saving as was the case with the KiwiSaver policy changes announced with Budget 2011.\u201D The Government was short of time. It could not even assess what the impact of this was going to be. That is also stressed in paragraph 5 of the five paragraphs on the front page of the regulatory impact statement, where it says: \u201CThere has been only limited consultation because of Budget sensitivity and a likely behavioural response.\u201D Treasury understands that incentives matter. This Government does not seem to get that. It claims to be economically literate, yet it does not even understand the advice provided by Treasury, which says that if there is no incentive, people will not sign up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIf we needed a clearer example of that, it is provided in the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s final summary evaluation conducted over 7 years of the scheme\u2014over 7 years. It is estimated that this scheme has caused additional savings of 36 percent. That is 36 percent of savings in New Zealand that would not have happened otherwise. KiwiSaver has initiated a savings culture, and that is thanks to the Labour Government\u2019s vision back when the scheme was started. Thank you, Dr Cullen, is what members should be saying from those benches opposite\u2014thank you, Dr Cullen. The reasons New Zealand has savings are, of course, the Cullen fund and KiwiSaver. All that these people can do is chop KiwiSaver. They have made eight cuts to KiwiSaver. It is a Budget of no vision, and this is a bill of no vision. It should be called the \u201CNo Vision Bill\u201D or, as I suggested earlier, the \u201CStolen Future Bill\u201D, or the \u201CRobbing Peter to Pay Paul Bill\u201D. There are many other names more suitable than the name the bill has been allocated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI want to ask members opposite to examine their consciences. I wonder how many of them took the $1,000. I wonder how many of them took the $1,000 for their KiwiSaver schemes\u2014how many took the kick-starter\u2014and how many of them are now going to have constituents coming through their doors, saying: \u201CHow come it was good enough for you? How come, MPs, how come, Ministers, how come, National Government, it was good enough for you to take the $1,000 kick-starter, and then pull the rug out?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe know that in the next 4 years, half a million Kiwis will miss out on this $1,000 kick-starter. Many of them will be on low wages. Many of them will be in their first jobs. They will be on $15 an hour, working part-time, because $1 an hour counts as being employed, under this Government. They will be saving $2 a week if they are lucky. A thousand bucks in your bank account is a good incentive. When you go up to $1,002 or $1,004\u2014it may sound meagre to those National members, but a thousand bucks is really a lot of money to people who are struggling to get by and who want to start thinking about their retirement. Starting out with two bucks in your account or four bucks in your account is pretty demoralising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThese guys are prepared to take that away. They are prepared to say they are going to rob Peter to pay Paul. They are prepared to give up and admit they have got no vision for New Zealand\u2019s future. They are taking money from those who are just one or two rungs up the ladder, in order to try to look like they are doing something for the hard end of town. But they made the cuts in the 1990s. They are the ones who actually caused the issues they are trying to cover over now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe wonder whether the Government will ever get to surplus. It probably will eventually\u2014it probably will eventually\u2014but not through any vision of its own. The Government has made promises to get there sooner. It has so mismanaged the economy. It has failed to diversify in the good times, it has failed to promote new business opportunities, and here once again the Government is depriving the country of the opportunity to save and to have capital depth, and to encourage businesses so that businesses can access capital in those big KiwiSaver funds to promote New Zealand\u2019s economy. The Government does not seem to have a vision for the economy. All it is focused on is breaking promises. John Key said: \u201CWe won\u2019t put GST up.\u201D It has gone up to 15 percent. \u201CWe will get exports to 40 percent.\u201D\u2014that has not been done. \u201CPushing out the $7,000 wage increase for employees\u201D\u2014the Government is breaking promises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbe740951f854e34a13b1c9f2e46ee9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbe740951f854e34a13b1c9f2e46ee9e\u0022\u003ETRACEY MARTIN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora and thank you, Mr Chair. I will take just a short call on the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill\u2014just around the title of the bill. New Zealand First would like to offer some more appropriate alternative titles. Let us start with the \u201CI\u2019m All Right Jack Bill\u201D. This is a Government that has forced beneficiaries into budgeting services, so that they can better manage the little amount of money that they have, and so they must go into budgeting services when they go to seek food, because they are so desperate. This is a Government that does not understand the maths of its own Budget. This is a Government, a member of which stands up and says: \u201CI actually can\u2019t make the numbers work.\u201D, and yet this is the bill it has put on the Table. Also, the reason why \u201CI\u2019m All Right Jack Bill\u201D would be a better title for this piece of legislation is that every member in this House has a substantial contribution from the taxpayers of New Zealand to their KiwiSaver accounts. How about we did not have a look at cutting that. How about that, instead of taking this incentive from the everyday New Zealanders who require it, and from the young people who are going to come into the workforce ongoing? To say that people are not going to sign up to KiwiSaver ongoing just does not make any sense, when we continually have young people growing up and joining the workforce. For goodness\u2019 sake! Think it through before you bring legislation to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EHere is another one. Here is another title: the \u201CChop Our Nose Off to Spite the New Zealand Public Face Bill\u201D. No matter what, we are going to get into some sort of\u2014an artificial\u2014surplus. I will take a bet with you, Dr Clark. I will take a bet. I will bet that this Government will not reside on those benches long enough to get into a real surplus\u2014a surplus that is actually real. You and I\u2014a bottle of lovely red wine that my husband produces. If I lose that bet, it is on you. Here is another title that we might like to consider: the \u201CKiwiSaver Blind Ideology (Surpluses At All Costs, No Matter What It Does to the New Zealand Public) Bill\u201D. How about that? Listen to the maths. I actually noticed that there was silence for a moment there when Fletcher Tabuteau, who knows what he is talking about, went away and did the maths. Mr Woodhouse has not done the maths, and neither has any other member on the backbenches. I would actually suggest that it was very interesting that Mr Bishop remarked how many members of the Government benches there were down here today in the daylight, actually talking or being around here for this very important bill, as they stripped away an incentive from the New Zealand public, from the young people who are going to come into the workforce and are going to join that scheme. So I suggest that the New Zealand public go and have a look at 8.35 p.m., 9.35 p.m., 10.35 p.m., and 11.35 p.m.\u2014go and check out Parliament TV from last night and just tie that in with the comments that Mr Bishop made earlier today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EHere is another title: the \u201CKiwiSaver (I Don\u2019t Know What I Stand For But My Whip Told Me To Vote For It) Bill\u201D. This is what we have here. This is actually an incredibly important piece of legislation that has major downstream effects for the New Zealand family, whether it be through the economy side of the New Zealand family or for each individual New Zealand family, or each individual New Zealand worker. There are downstream effects of this, for money flowing back into New Zealand and New Zealand being able to invest in itself, the New Zealand family being able to back itself with its own money as opposed to seeking overseas money. This Government is very good at saying that New Zealand needs more investment. We agree. We would like to see New Zealanders being able to back themselves, and long term this is exactly what this fund has done. But not only has this Government decided to strip away the incentives at the start of the scheme for any young person who wants to join up, it has decided that you can now rip your contribution out. Instead of the purpose the scheme was made for, you can rip it out and go and buy a house with it. So, basically, what the Government has done with this bill is, again, it has removed its responsibilities and its obligations to manage the economy wisely. It has decided that it is going to put this back on to the New Zealand public, and the New Zealand public needs to be aware of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4cb5b6e48c744638efe601f956cae2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4cb5b6e48c744638efe601f956cae2e\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E This is where the Budget spin starts to become unravelled, because although the National Government in its Budget on Thursday proclaimed that it was going to do something for New Zealanders who were feeling left behind, for New Zealanders who were struggling to get ahead, the reality is when you break it down, when you get through the spin, this Budget actually penalises those people some more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo let us look at some real examples of real people who might be affected by the changes in this year\u2019s Budget, and let us take someone who is on an unemployment benefit for the average amount of time. Bear in mind that despite all of the rhetoric, people are typically on the unemployment benefit for less than 6 months at a time. You might not know that when you hear the rhetoric about the unemployment benefit, but the average person who has one is on it for less than 6 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo let us assume that they are on the unemployment benefit for 6 months and they have children. They would benefit by about $650 from the changes that the Government has proposed to increase their benefit. Let us say that they then get a job and this is the first time in their life that they have a job with sufficient income to sign up for KiwiSaver, they lose a thousand bucks. That is the reality. So the National Government gives them $650 with one hand and takes $1,000 off them with the other. That is the reality. Break down the spin, go through it, and then you work out that actually they are not going to be better off; they are going to be worse off under the Government because it is giving a small amount with one hand and taking a larger amount with the other. That is the reality, and there are everyday New Zealanders who will be in that position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhen members on the other side of the House talk about beneficiaries, they only ever talk about the people who are on a benefit for a long time and they neglect to tell the public every time that the vast bulk of New Zealanders who rely on some form of benefit do so for a short period of time. It is a stop-gap measure for them when they find themselves in hardship, and this Government neglects to tell the public about that. It is happy to stereotype people living on benefits, when actually the vast bulk of people who are on a benefit are on a benefit for a short period of time. They will be penalised by this because they will lose the opportunity to get the $1,000 KiwiSaver kick-start, and I think that is wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI think it is wrong that somebody who signed up their child to KiwiSaver on Wednesday gets $1,000 and somebody signing them up on Friday does not. That is simply unfair. It is unfair that the Government did not signal this. It was never promised in its manifesto. So New Zealanders had the comfort of knowing that at some point in the future, if they found themselves in a position to join up to KiwiSaver, that kick-start would be there. Had they known, had the Government had the decency to give them warning, they could have signed up and got the $1,000 kick-start. The Government knows that, because if it did not we would not be here under urgency backdating this legislation to Budget day and robbing all of the New Zealanders who are not in KiwiSaver of the opportunity to sign up and get the $1,000 kick-start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ELet us just be clear here. The people who are in KiwiSaver now are more than likely to be in middle and upper income brackets. It is the people in the lowest income categories who struggle to get into KiwiSaver, and yet that is something that I know they aspire to. Aspiration used to be something that the National Party was proud of. Now, if someone is on a low income and aspires to be in KiwiSaver, they are kicking them in the guts by taking away the $1,000 kick-start that middle and upper income earners benefited from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis is another kick in the guts to people on low incomes and to future generations of New Zealanders. To the tertiary graduates, who will be leaving university or polytech or their apprenticeships and moving into full-time, fully paid employment for the first time, signing up to KiwiSaver\u2014they have lost the $1,000. And, of course, we know that tertiary students continue to be hammered by this Government as well. It is simply unfair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe National Party hated KiwiSaver from the beginning. It was a package of measures that John Key called communism by stealth. Let us not forget that. When Working for Families and KiwiSaver were introduced by the last Labour Government, a Government that, I should remind people, produced nine surpluses in a row to National\u2019s seven deficits\u2014when we used those surpluses in the good economic times to introduce KiwiSaver to save for the future, to boost family incomes through Working for Families, to reduce the burden on students by having interest-free student loans, John Key railed against those policies and called them communism by stealth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ENational hates KiwiSaver and that was absolutely evident from the very first moment it became Government. What did it do? When National first became Government it cut the member contributions. That was cut No. 1. It then cut the member fee subsidy of $40 per annum. That was cut straight away. It cut employer contributions. This all happened straight away. National halved the size of KiwiSaver straight away in its first Budget and it ceased to provide the employer tax credit. Those four cuts were all made in its first Budget. Those were the first of the KiwiSaver cuts made by the National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBut then the Government came back in 2011 and it had another go. It halved the member tax credit in that year as well. This was yet another cut. And then it made further cuts to KiwiSaver, and now this is the latest one. Eight cuts all up this Government has made to the KiwiSaver scheme since it came into office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that hates KiwiSaver. Yet Bill English knows in his heart of hearts, and they all know in their heart of hearts, that New Zealand still has a savings problem. Anybody looking at the wider set of New Zealand\u2019s accounts knows that we are spending more than we are earning and that that has been the case for a very long period of time. KiwiSaver was one of the measures introduced to try to curb that, to try to get New Zealanders saving more. It was a good measure and it still is a good measure, and I am pleased it is still there. But we should be looking at getting more people into KiwiSaver and putting more money into KiwiSaver, because it is a key part of making sure that New Zealanders break even and make ends meet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe heard a lecture from Nick Smith about the Opposition not being able to get their numbers to add up. This Government has not managed to get its numbers to add up for 7 years, because if they did add up we would not be in deficit. For 7 years its numbers have not added up. The Government has been in deficit every year. What does that mean? It means borrowing. National has been borrowing every year that it has been in Government. It has been contributing to the problem of New Zealand as a country spending more than it earns. We have to deal with that, and Bill English knows in his heart of hearts that that is a challenge for New Zealand. So why is it that time after time he comes to the House and proposes cuts to one of the few things that we are doing that is designed to turn that round and to increase our savings rate? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we have got the Government saying: \u201CWell, actually, you can cash up your KiwiSaver for your first-home deposit.\u201D That was something that the Labour Party has supported as well. But is it not sad that we have reached that reality now where New Zealanders, even if it they cash it up, cannot afford to buy a first home? Those in the middle-income brackets who can, are having to face a trade-off between saving for their retirement and buying their first home. I think that is a tragedy. I think it is a short-term stop-gap measure. It is good\u2014it is a good way to get people on to the property-buying ladder, but long term we have got to look at other things. We have got to look at ways that people can own a home and save for their future. Furthering KiwiSaver by making sure that there are good incentives to join, by making sure that we are increasing contributions to KiwiSaver\u2014whether it be through Government contributions, employer contributions, employee contributions, and the like\u2014will all make New Zealand a richer country in the long term. Instead, what we are seeing with the current Government is that it is content to manage things for today and not plan ahead for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo many of the things in this year\u2019s Budget are designed to create the illusion of doing something, but they do not. When you break down the spin, when you look at it, they are not actually helping the people they claim to be helping. I want to just reiterate that point that I made, that for somebody who is moving off a benefit and into work, if they have been on a benefit for 6 months\u2014which is about the average time that someone is on an unemployment benefit\u2014they would have benefited by $650 through the increase in benefits, and that is great. I think that they would enjoy that and I think that they would find that as a welcome relief. But when they finally get into work, and they finally get to join KiwiSaver for the first time, they find that not only is that $650 taken away from them but another $350 is taken away as well because they lose the $1,000 KiwiSaver kick-start that they otherwise would have got. That is the reality. So let us break down the spin. Give a small amount with one hand, take a larger amount with the other hand\u2014that is the reality of what the current Government is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EKiwiSaver is a good scheme. The kick-start has resulted in a whole heap of people joining KiwiSaver. Removing the kick-start penalises people who, for whatever reason\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b4e384e35764f1fab7411ecff40f661\u0022\u003EJoanne Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The member is not even addressing the clause\u2014the title. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2dc6c69742d47559cf863279a6a3b1c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: The debate on this clause is wide ranging. It will continue to be wide ranging for some time yet. When we get into the other clauses they are much narrower, and so that will be enforced most closely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229226b57a0a9a4a2f94f0cdab75ac55b5\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: As I understand it, there was no leave sought for these clauses to be taken as one question, and traditionally in the Committee stage of the House the title part of the bill is at the end of the Committee stage, not at the start, which does, of itself, form something of a wind-up. But in this situation we are debating clause by clause\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a944e0a9d34d4baf9bc3be3956f70a80\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: 114/7\u2014read it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022468e1cc98ad749188dd8d228c70704d3\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and my understanding is that that requires the member to stick to that clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8c1a64ee34a4ee6968162795ac10a54\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: I do not need any further help with this. In spite of the unlawful interjection, I do draw the member\u2019s attention to Speaker\u2019s ruling 114/7. Because there was no select committee process on this bill, the convention is that this is a wide-ranging debate. It will continue to be, no doubt, for both sides of the Chamber who may want to seek the call. Chris Hipkins has 20 seconds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0049b9a131745229e1d81ecf4c91373\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, and I intend to use every one of them. I will be very brief. KiwiSaver is a good scheme. The kick-start was a good way to get people in it. We should not be penalising people who are not in it now but who aspire to join it. We should be encouraging them to join KiwiSaver. It is wrong that the Government is taking away this kick-start, and it is wrong that it has not foreshadowed that it intended to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfc88f6ccb2043cfb61be6da201b0572\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfc88f6ccb2043cfb61be6da201b0572\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Just on the point of order that was just mentioned before by Mr Woodhouse, I think I will start with the naming of this bill. I think this Government loves to use acronyms that confuse most of us out there in the real world who understand what the real world is about. I have got an acronym here that I think sums up this piece of legislation: the \u201COMG YOLO #nofuture Bill\u201D. I know everybody back home, the younger ones particularly, will totally get what I mean, because this bill gives no future to our New Zealanders who need this future the most. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI have many times stood up in this Chamber and said that New Zealand First is not in the game of opposing bills that the Government puts forward if they make sense. If there is any sense to a piece of legislation, New Zealand First will support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bde821ddba49426fa4ae798e6ffb5d50\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down, then. Sit down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225515e027512d4e7487615d719e56b597\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Just to that, Matt Doocey, let me say that we supported the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill yesterday because that makes sense. On this bill, however, we could not even get a furthest, widest-ranging view to conclude that this is good for the future of New Zealand. This bill is absolutely against what this country should be standing up for\u2014the people\u2019s future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EIn 2006 the Labour Government came up with the KiwiSaver legislation, which gave Kiwis a $1,000 kick-start incentive to get them thinking about their future. I took advantage of that, and I am sure everybody on the other side of the House took advantage of that, even if they were not in politics, because it made sense to. It does not matter what compounding interest rate you are going to be using there, Mr Bayly. Whatever that is, whether you want to make it 5 percent under your calculations and say it is going to be only $24,000, or whether we are going to be using 10 percent\u2014and, let me remind you, 10 percent is conservative at the moment, when the AMP KiwiSaver investment scheme is averaging out at 16.8 percent at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI know this because I have just changed mine into a bit more of a dynamic fund. It is getting 10 percent, so it is going to give you a heck of a lot more, even if it is $100,000\u2014that is, $145,000. You are taking money away from Kiwis. It is short-sighted for the future of New Zealand. I have to say, Mr Bayly, that you justify it by saying that even $23,000 is not enough. I dare say that when you retire at 65 years old, $23,000 will go a long, long way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EWe have heard from people emailing and calling us over the last few days. I would love to say I had got some faxes, but we do not have fax machines anymore. We have actually moved into the 21st century. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0b30c09cb0a407181ca3b561354832e\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Really?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204f5f13514ee4b2cbc77f736a78d93b7\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I do not do the fax thing, no, Mr Iain Lees-Galloway. My father does, and if he could, he would send me smoke screens. He does not even text. The point is that we have had Grey Power come and speak to us with some serious, serious concerns. This population that we are currently living in is like an hourglass population. There is a very, very bulbous population of ageing people at the top, a very, very skinny working class of people\u2014those who are of the age to work\u2014and a very, very large bulbous group of young people coming into the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThe point is that we should be thinking long term now. I know, Mr Matt Doocey, that you are trying to create your perfect life there, but this is a very serious curve that we are talking about\u2014[Interruption]\u2014and I apologise to the people at home who just got an earful of me hitting the microphone. But, seriously, if we do not start thinking about the future and get this Government to rethink this legislation and the way that it votes, we are going to have this population, who are now currently working, starving on the streets with very, very little money to support them. I am sure, Mr Chair, that you have got some investments that would make\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb446cdd2d9745eca29ced1a5cb5e588\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Do not bring me into this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e86a2627c7ed4d798102a7881c6640b0\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. The point is that if we do not think about the future of our New Zealanders now and bring this legislation back into the fold, then we are going to have some grave concerns for the future. I had a phone call from a gentleman who is a constituent in Tauranga. He has also contacted the local Minister from Tauranga to put his concerns forward. He was right in the very stages of signing up his three children aged 4, 6, and 9 years old to the KiwiSaver programme\u2014we are talking about filling out the forms to get them sent in. But this retrospective piece of legislation, which takes effect going back to Thursday of this week, stops his ability to get his children signed up. In fact, just last week my wife and I were talking about the same thing for our three young children\u2014that we should be thinking about getting them signed up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EHow many New Zealanders are missing out because of this quick fire from the hip? The Government is shooting down the legislation, pulling the carpet from underneath their legs, and not giving them the time they require to ensure that they have the means to put that into place. Two years would not be unreasonable. When you look at all the legislation that is coming through now and the 2 to 4 year time period for the implementation of the legislation, that would not be unfair. In fact, there is an amendment on the Table in the name of Mr Fletcher Tabuteau that actually, if it could get support, might be a little more palatable than cutting the legs off before we have got the chance to actually speak to it. We strongly hope that this Government reconsiders this motion. To that end, we understand the fiscal constraints of any Government. This Government, with its bad budgeting over the past 7 years, is clearly having some issues with getting the books to balance up, so we understand that some cuts need to be made. But it is a zero-sum gain. When you are giving $25 a week to the people who need it the most\u2014and, hey, look, at the end of the day, a little bit helps; I do not think it helps enough, I think GST off food would help far more of our poor, starving, and impoverished people than giving them a $25 a week handout. Taxing food, to me, is just obscene. But at the end of the day the Government has given that, and well done for that, but taking away from their future is absolutely crazy thinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI would like Government members to reconsider what they are doing there, because if they even thought about looking after the fiscal constraints and reducing the $1,000 kick-start to even $500 in 2 years\u2019 time, we could probably understand that\u2014decisions need to be made. But what about the uncollected taxes? Again, I will give credit to the Government where credit is due: in the latest Budget it has just put $74 million to increasing its ability to actually go out and get the tax that needs to be collected. Twenty-nine million dollars, 40 percent of that $74 million, is going to specifically target those people who are using their housing schemes, their residential properties, and that will increase the tax collected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThe rest of that money should be going into corporate tax evasion. The very wealthy in this country\u2014we are talking about people who have got hundreds of millions of dollars\u2014are gloating that they pay only 12 to 15 percent tax when the rest of us are paying more than our fair share. And why should we not pay our taxes? We owe it to society. The money that at the moment is sitting in the red is about $7 billion\u2014$7,000 million in uncollected taxes, and if this Government spent some of that money to go and collect, we could actually afford to do both\u2014$25 a week as well as a KiwiSaver kick-start. It makes good economic sense for the now and it makes good economic sense for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EWe do not support this bill in its current form, and we would like to see this Government change the way it is thinking about the future of New Zealanders. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022871386d27a3f4ae7b9ac900c562b623f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022871386d27a3f4ae7b9ac900c562b623f\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E I would just like to take issue with my own colleague Chris Hipkins, because towards the end of his speech he said that KiwiSaver is a good scheme. Let me tell you this: KiwiSaver was a good scheme. It was a good scheme in 2006, when Michael Cullen had the courage to set up a far-reaching scheme with a vision for the future. But what has happened? All we have seen under this Government is KiwiSaver get cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. Eight cuts we have heard of today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThere was the minimum member contribution cut. That has been taken. The member fee subsidy\u2014that has been cut. The employer tax credit\u2014that has been cut. Compulsory employer contributions\u2014they have been cut. The member tax credit\u2014that has been cut. And now the $1,000 kick-start\u2014that has been cut. We have a member on that side of the Chamber saying they will still be able to get $521 in annual payments. I just query how long before that $521 a year is also going to be cut. The KiwiSaver scheme has been absolutely gutted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe Government lacks vision. They lack courageous policy. The KiwiSaver policy was far-reaching. It was going to help our generations into the future, and that is why I say that this bill should be named the \u201CDismantle Our Children\u2019s Future Bill\u201D. It is just dismantling the future so that people can scrape by in the present. It is doing nothing at all to look after future generations. This is terrible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWe had Nick Smith sitting over there. He was throwing figures around, facts and figures. He is trying to make himself sound intelligent, and then he says that New Zealand is the first country to get into the black. I was sitting here, and on Thursday I am sure I heard the Minister of Finance say that we are still in deficit. I am positive that is what I heard. Two days later, Nick Smith is standing up and saying we are in the black. He does not even know his colours, let alone his figures, and that is why I resent that party over there standing up and saying that this side of the House does not know what we are talking about when it comes to the economy. It is an absolutely shameless distortion of the truth to hear these people say that they know what is good for the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ENational has absolutely gutted KiwiSaver. This bill should be called the \u201CMoney-Go-Round Bill\u201D, because all it is doing is taking from this side and giving it over here. There is absolutely no long-term vision. This is just about living in the present. The difference between our side of the House and that side of the House is that we do not only live in the present; we live in and think about the future. We think about the future and our kids, and we know that there are going to be more good moments in the future, not just living here and thinking about this moment in time, just to make ourselves look good in this moment in time. It is about thinking about the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWorking for Families was thinking about the future. And, as we have heard, John Key was the man who said this is communism by stealth. That party over there is taking credit for our policies. That party over there is taking credit for what this side of the House did, those years ago. KiwiSaver\u2014those members are saying there are 2.5 million people on KiwiSaver. And it is just more popular than ever\u2014well, it is more popular because it was a courageous policy from this side of the House, and now National members are taking credit for it. They live in the past; we think about the future. They are taking credit for what the last Labour Government did in 2006. That is because Labour always thinks about the future. Labour thinks about what we are going to do to make the country better off in the future. These guys are just worrying about the next Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EFive hundred and twenty-one dollars a year\u2014I would say that is going to go from KiwiSaver, in the next Budget. And we are going to have the ninth cut to the KiwiSaver policy. National is just making things worse for the future. It has absolutely no idea about how to make the lives of our children better off. This is a panicked, knee-jerk reaction\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002289700cf241c444bb800804dac0a43646\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289700cf241c444bb800804dac0a43646\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This is our opportunity in this part of the debate on the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill to talk about what we believe this bill should be called. The most obvious thing, from my perspective, is that if this bill were really speaking the truth, it would be called the \u201CWidening Intergenerational Inequality Bill\u201D. It feels like Groundhog Day, for me to be in this Chamber yet again debating another measure to cut the savings base for New Zealanders in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f9626f2b631487c849d757ac2318ad0\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: It feels like that for you? Goodness me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a33acba4c38d41699657e49aa9965dd3\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I still remember, Chris Bishop, my very first Budget in this House, when that National Government made substantive changes to KiwiSaver. I remember vividly walking outside to the Noes lobby and seeing Michael Cullen sitting on the couch there with this absolutely devastated look on his face. All of the work that the Labour Government had done to build up savings in this country, to make sure that New Zealanders had a nest egg that meant that they would not just scrape by on a pension but have quality of life in their old age\u2014in one fell Budget, that Government gutted it. I remember that Budget to this day. National has done it eight times since\u2014and that is just during my time in this House. That is not to mention what National did under Muldoon to devastate the potential that we had in New Zealand to have a massive savings base.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe talk about the gap between New Zealand and Australia\u2014that is when that gap started. The Australians made the sensible decision to have a decent superannuation scheme across the entire population, and we had that opportunity under Kirk. But, once again, National demonstrated its short-sighted approach when it comes to savings, and it gutted them. They absolutely gutted them. Everything that we have been doing since then has been to try to regain that ground. And, again, here we are, with another demonstration of the fact that that Government is absolutely disinterested in what it is doing for future generations. It is not just savings. It is housing, where we have a generation of renters. It is education, where student loans are mounting for the next generation. And it is even things like climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIf that Government wants to prove that this bill is not about intergenerational inequality, that it is not about their having more than what the next lot will get, I challenge just one of them to stand up and say that they did not take the $1,000 KiwiSaver kick-start themselves. Because that is what we are cutting today. We are cutting something that I would almost guarantee every single one of the MPs on that side of the Chamber took up. We did\u2014we did. We put it out there and said that it was for everyone who joins. Did that side of the Committee do the same? I challenge just one of them to say that they did not, because if all of them did, then they are absolutely depriving everyone else of something that they benefited from. I also challenge members on that side of the Committee to stand up and tell us\u2014give us a guarantee\u2014that they did not tell their kids to sign up before they took it away, as well, because that is what we are debating today. This bill will stop anyone else from getting that $1,000 kick-start contribution, which we know so many would have taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIn my short time available, I also want to point out that this bill starts from the time that the Budget was passed, and, yet, how long are we waiting for $25 a week to go to beneficiaries? It is not happening until next year. So we take immediately and we leave everyone else to wait until they can gain that kind of small amount of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that should be renamed the \u201CWe Choose Sticks Instead of Incentives Bill, because this bill was always about incentivising people to join KiwiSaver. But we know that that side of the Committee never wanted people to join. And where is the evidence of that? Well, I have got a little article here from the New Zealand Herald, dated 1 March 2006. When Michael Cullen introduced the idea of KiwiSaver, he said that it was his aspiration that 25 percent of workers join it, and things like the kick-start contribution were there to motivate people to do that. What was the National Party\u2019s response to that? The National Party members\u2019 response to that was to say that they thought he was dreaming. They said in 2006 that Michael Cullen was dreaming that people would join up at a rate of 25 percent. Well, how many do we have now? We have 2.5 million people in this scheme. That Government never wanted Kiwis to have KiwiSaver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022f33c09020c0048ed9245edef00a7d6a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f33c09020c0048ed9245edef00a7d6a4\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have to say we started off this morning with a very spirited debate from the members opposite defending the indefensible. I have to say it was such a good start that the Minister who is in charge of this bill, the Hon Todd McClay, did not know he was in charge of it and tried to move it in somebody else\u2019s name. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe have had to listen this morning to National members sitting opposite crowing about how great they have been to beneficiaries, and the payback is because they are going to take it off KiwiSaver. They said: \u201CWe are the first Government in 43 years to give money to beneficiaries.\u201D What they forget is that they were the first Government in 43 years to cut the benefits to beneficiaries\u2014to cut the benefits to beneficiaries. They have forgotten about Ruth Richardson and the \u201Cmother of all Budgets\u201D. That has all been glossed over. When we brought in Working for Families, that was communism by stealth! Have they got rid of it? No, they have not. They just fiddle around the edges of it. When we brought back income-related rents, which helped those on the lowest income, they opposed it. When we brought in 20 hours of free early childhood education, they opposed it. The one that I really like, because we have had to listen hour after hour to Paula Bennett speaking on it, is that we kept the training incentive allowance to help people get off the benefit, but she took it for herself and then canned it. This is another example of National members taking what they can for them and taking it off others. That is exactly what is happening with KiwiSaver today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI wonder whether National has any idea of how many people under 18 have signed up to KiwiSaver. The latest figure we have got from 2013 is 352,600 young people under 18 have signed up to KiwiSaver. So we have got young people signing up. Why were they signing up? Not because they were necessarily in work; most of them were not. They signed up because they had the incentive of the $1,000 that was going to be there for them to build on when they became KiwiSaver contributors. They had the $1,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWhat National has forgotten is that there are going to be more babies born. It is just a fact of life. There are going to be about 60,000 children born every year in New Zealand in the foreseeable future. They might have wanted to join up to KiwiSaver. Maybe their parents might have liked to join them up to KiwiSaver. I challenge the members opposite\u2014just one of them\u2014to say that they did not sign their children up to KiwiSaver. Well, I wonder whether the member himself took the $1,000 for KiwiSaver. Would he like\u2014[Interruption] He cannot remember. Well, that is always a sign that you did. So he cannot remember.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f61d0e15e204613b60304d7fcc7ee64\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: I did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022537f998216cb484c94d658475c63da4f\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he did take it. So why would the Minister in the chair take $1,000 for himself and deny it for future generations, for our kids, for those who have not yet joined KiwiSaver? It is a pretty mean-spirited approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EGovernment members say we have to do this to pay for the beneficiaries. Are we not generous? Well, just go back and think, National members. If you had not given billions of dollars away in tax cuts to the wealthiest, which included everybody in this Committee, you would have money to give to beneficiaries, you would have money to invest into our regions in New Zealand, and you would have money to invest in jobs. But you saw that you ought to give it to the top 10 percent of New Zealand, and then we did not have the money for beneficiaries. We did not have the money for health. We did not have the money for a whole lot of things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI wonder whether the members opposite can remember the promises their party made in 2008. I have to say, you are meant to believe the word of a Prime Minister. The Prime Minister then in Opposition said National would retain the policy. There would be no radical changes to this policy. There were eight cuts to the KiwiSaver scheme in the 7 long years National has been in Government. That is one for every year, and that is on a solemn promise that National would not change this scheme radically. I have to say, I would actually rename this bill the \u201CFess Up to Chicanery Bill\u201D, because that is exactly what this is. The Government makes promises and then breaks them. It tells the people that it will do one thing and then it does something quite different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002202a268850e284d809c9d859cf77d831d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202a268850e284d809c9d859cf77d831d\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I find myself drawn into the debate in a way I did not quite expect, simply by putting up my hand and saying that my own children are not in KiwiSaver but I am. That is fair enough. Yes, I thought, as the chief executive of Mercy Hospital in Dunedin, that all of my staff, regardless of whether they were doctors at the top end of the salary scale or our lower skilled workers, should take up KiwiSaver, but the question and the thesis we have now is whether or not the incentives have been destroyed. The simple challenge that the members opposite have made is that every single member of the National caucus should give the $1,000 back. So here is my challenge to them: if they are so principled about the changes that this Government has made, I want every one of them who are currently paying the 39 percent top marginal tax rate, when they do not have to, to put their hands up\u2014but they oppose that tax cut. So if they can say that they refused the benefits that this Government imposed, that they were so principled that they continue to pay the 39 percent top marginal tax rate, I will pay my $1,000 back. I will write the cheque today, because what is good for the goose is good for the gander. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI want to come to Mr Tabuteau, because Mr Tabuteau is the one sensible, rational New Zealand First member who has half an ear on economics. I understand he lectured in economics, but he is very tricky about those numbers. I, like Mr Bayly, the very smart fellow chartered accountant on the National caucus, was fascinated by the use of the 10 percent rate of return. What is really interesting is that if you do get the excel spreadsheet out and calculate the future value of that lump sum, using a 10 percent hurdle rate, in the 50 years that Mr Tabuteau described, between the 15 years and 65, it is, indeed, nearly $118,000. Except what Mr Tabuteau forgot was that people have to pay tax. Maybe he does not, but that 10 percent rate of return is a gross return. We know that the long-run rate of return in investment schemes is not 10 percent, because there are hard times, not that Mr Cunliffe would have told you that when he said that we should have been borrowing to invest in the New Zealand superannuation scheme. He never said that. In fact, if he was such a genius about how to predict the market, why, in 2007, did he not trot along to the good Dr Cullen\u2019s office, knock on his door, and say: \u201CGuess what, Mike? I think the rates of return are going to drop. We should pull out of those equities and go into fixed interest before the super scheme plummets.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe simple fact is we cannot. Over 50 years there are good times and bad times. So the long-run rate of return at an after-tax pay rate of, say, a generous 6 percent in those 50 years is $18,000. It is not to be sneezed at but it is not $118,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3c2deb266e249a185e8aa4d3fc5cfee\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re a medical doctor, not a PhD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bbf49e4868b46fa93ffa780fe022eee\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: I am a chartered accountant, Mr Cunliffe. Here is what else he did not say. The future value of the $175 million annuity, which is the investment the Government would have to make if the Labour Opposition kept it\u2014and that is fine; it has that prerogative to campaign on that\u2014at the same 6 percent rate of return is $54 billion. So we take away the $18,000 future value of that initial investment and we burden those 15-year-olds with an extra $54 billion of debt because we do not have cash in the bank to pay that $1,000. We would have to borrow it. If we use the Government\u2019s average interest rate of about 6 percent, that is an extra $54 billion burden that this Opposition would have us have. It only knows how to borrow, spend other people\u2019s money, and tax. Just remember, it knows how to tax people but it is not so principled that it would pay the 39 percent marginal tax rate. I will get my cheque book out and I will write that $1,000 cheque when one of them\u2014one of them\u2014can demonstrate that they are paying a 39 percent marginal tax rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022895041d98fb24f9e84a893b65d949867\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022895041d98fb24f9e84a893b65d949867\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: It is going to be a long day. I note that last night we were tired and giggly. Today I would like us to not get tired and scratchy. I can assure the members on my left that I heard their cunning and clever interjections the first 15 times they repeated them. Just remember the directions of Speaker Hunt that interjections are rare, reasonable, and, hopefully, witty. I look forward to those colourful comments through the course of today, into tonight, next Monday, or however long it takes. If you just manage to match the noise levels, speaker to speaker, I am sure we will progress very well through the business of today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022a03a076175684b9abb323ff2e43b7a30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a03a076175684b9abb323ff2e43b7a30\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Let me start where the Minister left off. The Minister said that members on this side of the Chamber only know how to borrow. That is from a Minister of a Government that has been in Government for 7 long years and has borrowed for every single one of those 7 years. There has been $83 billion worth of debt amassed by that Government over there and it has the temerity to lecture this side of the Chamber the parties that ran the Government that got New Zealand into a zero net debt position for the first time in our history, that ran 9 years of surplus, 9 nil. That side of the Chamber cannot lecture us about borrowing because all the Government knows is how to borrow. It borrows so that it can afford tax cuts for its rich mates. That is what it borrows money for\u2014so that it can afford tax cuts for its rich mates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe title of this bill is the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill. I wonder whether any of the people who have come along and are sitting in the gallery on a Saturday morning watching this would have any idea, reading that title, what the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill actually does. This title tells us nothing. This Government is perfectly capable of giving bills titles that tell us what they do. We had the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Bill. That told us what that bill was pretty much about. We had the Crimes (Match-fixing) Amendment Bill. I think we all knew what that one was about. Even the rather dry Dairy Industry Restructuring (Raw Milk Pricing Methods) Bill gave us a pretty good hint of what that bill did. I could probably spend hours reading out names of bills but I will not do that. The thing is what the Government does is it gives a bill a title that is meaningful when it is proud of it. The Government is not proud of this bill, because it is hiding what the bill really does by giving it the driest, most bland title that would not give anybody outside of this House the slightest hint of what this legislation does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI have got a better title. I would call this bill the \u201CKiwiSaver Cut Bill (No 8)\u201D\u2014the \u201CKiwiSaver Cut Bill (No 8)\u201D. Because what it does is it implements the eighth cut to KiwiSaver that has occurred under this Government in less than 7 years\u2014eight cuts in less than 7 years\u2014although we are not that surprised because members on that side of the House hate KiwiSaver. They hated it when it was first brought in. They hate the idea of people in New Zealand saving for their future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt was the National Government under Muldoon that got rid of the Kirk Government\u2019s superannuation scheme. This country would be unrecognisable to us today if that superannuation scheme had remained in place. We would not be so desperately reliant on foreign capital if that superannuation scheme had been left in place. But the National Party does not think of the future. The National Party never thinks of the future. The National Party is always worried about the next Budget and the next election, the here and now. There is never a plan. It is always about how to retain power. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWhy is this the \u201CKiwiSaver Cut Bill (No 8)\u201D? Well, cut No. 1 was to reduce the minimum contribution rate from 4 percent to 2 percent. What did the Government tell Kiwis at the time? It said: \u201COh, we are putting more money in your bank account by cutting your contribution rates from four percent to two percent.\u201D That is actually like telling someone that you have taken money out of their savings account and put it into their cheque account, and that you have given them more money. Actually, it just shows that the only way this Government can think of getting more money into people\u2019s bank accounts is not through economic growth, is not through wage rises; it is from stealing from their superannuation scheme and putting it into their cheque account. That is the sum total of this Government\u2019s plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe second cut was to the member fee subsidy\u2014$40 per annum. That was just a little sweetener to make sure that the fees that are charged by the outfits that run the KiwiSaver accounts did not eat away too much at your KiwiSaver savings. Of course, the Government\u2019s second cut was to remove that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe third cut was to cap the compulsory employer contributions at 2 percent. Again, this was saying to employers that the Government wanted them to be able to hold on to more money, not through growing the economy, not through ensuring that businesses\u2019 consumers had more money in their pockets so that there was more demand for their goods and they could employ more people and pay them well. No, it was by taking money out of people\u2019s savings accounts and putting it into the employer\u2019s accounts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00221d90eb93fe55414b85d2b883c73fc69c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d90eb93fe55414b85d2b883c73fc69c\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I also have a suggestion for the title of this bill, which is that we amend it from the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill to the \u201CKiwiSaver Arbitrary Budget Measures Bill\u201D. I say \u201Carbitrary\u201D because there does not yet seem to be much reasoning behind the move to remove the incentive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI just wanted to thank the Minister, Michael Woodhouse, for his contribution earlier, because it was the first contribution from a member of the Government side that actually included facts. I found that very helpful. It included actual information and actual facts. However, it simply reinforced the Government\u2019s case that this is all about cutting costs, reducing the deficit, and so on. I wanted to pick up on one point with that, but then I also wanted to restate some of the questions that I asked earlier on in the debate, and to invite Mr Woodhouse to take another call at a later stage to respond to some of the specific questions that lead me to the idea that this is, in fact, an arbitrary bill. First of all, he mentioned the 39 percent top tax rate before. When National first came to Government it reduced taxes for the wealthiest people in society, which has left a hole in the accounts of about $1 billion a year. That would have covered the deficit, and it would have allowed us to continue this scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe questions that I asked earlier that I have not yet received an answer for are, No. 1: New Zealand is 22nd of 24 OECD countries for savings. Cutting the KiwiSaver incentive reduces the savings rate. What is the plan to increase savings? The second question is: the ANZ chief economist says that removing the KiwiSaver incentive will reduce the rate of take up. What is the plan to maintain or increase the rate of take up? Three: did the Government consider leaving the kick-start contribution in place for, say, 6 or 12 months in order to incentivise those currently not in the scheme to get into the scheme, or to give people who are currently processing paperwork a chance to actually get it completed? Four: how does reducing the KiwiSaver take-up rate impact the intergenerational equity of today\u2019s working parents paying for three generations\u2019 worth of costs? How does it deal with the change in the dependency ratio from 7:1 today to 2:1 in 30 years\u2019 time? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe fifth question is: the Government is reducing a short-term deficit by raiding New Zealand\u2019s retirement schemes\u2014again. What is the Government\u2019s plan for long-term financial sustainability? Six: why cut the kick-start contribution rather than the member tax credit, given that we know that the kick-start contribution is the incentive that people actually know about and is the thing that actually gets them into the scheme? Reducing or removing the member tax credit would actually achieve the Government\u2019s goal more substantially, because it is the more expensive part of the scheme, but it would leave in place the incentive to get into the scheme, which is the most important thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAs yet, during the course of this debate, I have not heard responses to any of those questions, and that leaves me in the position of simply having to oppose this otherwise arbitrary bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4aadc18dd8d4009b4d6d591c468969d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4aadc18dd8d4009b4d6d591c468969d\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022890d072bb4f64e00bce67bf3e8ac85c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022890d072bb4f64e00bce67bf3e8ac85c9\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E It is a privilege to speak on clause 1, I think it is, of this Committee of the whole House stage. This is an opportunity for some members on this side of the Chamber to have a bit of fun with the title. My colleague Iain Lees-Galloway has come up with a few interesting titles but mine is quite a mundane title. This bill should be retitled the \u201CKiwiSaver (Reduction and Privilege) Bill\u201D, and for the benefit of the Committee I am going to use the acronym to make things easy\u2014the \u201CKRAP\u201D, because that is what this is. The \u201CKRAP\u201D is a mean-spirited bill that takes away saving opportunities from our young people. That is essentially what this bill does. The \u201CKRAP\u201D will basically take money from those people who have not yet signed up to KiwiSaver, and from some of our youngest and unborn children. That is what the \u201CKRAP\u201D does. The \u201CKRAP\u201D is an awful piece of legislation. When you look at the numbers, the \u201CKRAP\u201D, as I want it to be changed to, is not only a mean-spirited bill in terms of what it will do for the savings regime and the culture of savings in New Zealand but it is also a fiscally cynical piece of legislation. By cutting the $1,000 kick-start payment for Kiwis this Government will save about $175 million next year. The projected surplus next year just happens to be $176 million. So this is a lazy Government. It could not look to save a bit here and to save a bit there. It just takes away the KiwiSaver kick-start as part of this \u201CKRAP\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAs part of this \u201CKRAP\u201D we have been, I guess, antagonising members on the other side of the Chamber as to who should pay back their KiwiSaver contribution. It is not very often that I get to stand in this Chamber and praise a member on the opposite side of the Chamber. As it stands now\u2014of the National members in the Chamber now\u2014David Bennett is the only one who has not signed up to KiwiSaver. He is the only one on that side of the Chamber who has not signed up, according to the Register of Pecuniary Interests. So he is the only one to whom we are not offering the challenge to pay the $1,000 back. David, you can leave the Chamber in the next 2\u00BD minutes, and I challenge your colleagues who have all taken the $1,000 kick-start, because they are all signed up to KiwiSaver. You can leave. You are not going to be criticised here. Your colleagues who are sitting in the Chamber right now are quite happy to take $1,000, but from 21 May at 2 p.m., no one else can. That is the reality. Every member on that side of the Chamber who is signed up to KiwiSaver\u2014then, fine; I will take that $1,000, but from 21 May at 2 p.m., no one else can. Not one person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett, you are either principled or you might be a bit stupid, because you should have signed up to KiwiSaver. You should have signed up because it is a great scheme, which was started by the Labour Government. It is so good that 2.5 million New Zealanders have signed up to it, and that National Government is trying to take credit for it. But under this \u201CKRAP\u201D the Government is ruining KiwiSaver. It is ruining it, and it is not the first time. The Government has got a track record of doing this. This is the eighth time\u2014the eighth time\u2014that it has taken the knife to KiwiSaver. This \u201CKRAP\u201D is an embarrassing piece of legislation for the Government because it is trying to get it to a surplus that it will never achieve and it is ruining the savings culture of New Zealand. Why, if something is working, do you in this \u201CKRAP\u201D take away something that is an incentive for the 2.5 million people who have signed up to KiwiSaver? It does not make sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EHere is the challenge again\u2014and David, I do appreciate that you have not signed up. The tragedy for David Bennett is that he cannot sign up. He cannot sign up. The challenge to the other members of the Committee on the other side of the Chamber is that you have got $1,000 but you are now denying every Kiwi who has not signed up to KiwiSaver. You got $1,000 that at least 1.5 million Kiwis are not entitled to now. You do not have to, David; you did not get it. If you on that side of the Chamber are quite happy to sit there and pass the \u201CKRAP\u201D, pay the $1,000 back. Give it back. That is essentially what you should do if you have got some honour, and you want to pass this \u201CKRAP\u201D\u2014give the $1,000 back. It is the decent thing to do and it is the honourable thing to do. David Bennett\u2014good on you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab69be8b185841d2815644daadc984da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab69be8b185841d2815644daadc984da\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chair. Thank you very much for the opportunity to contribute to this Committee stage debate on the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill. I will talk about some alternative titles later, but I just want to provide some context for this piece of legislation. We have 4.41 million people in New Zealand and of those, 2,350,000 are enrolled in KiwiSaver. Of those people who are enrolled, 352,000 are zero to 17-year-olds. So, actually, our children have engaged in this process and are taking advantage of KiwiSaver because, like us, we want them to prepare for the future. Seventy-eight percent are not enrolled. That is 2.12 million people, but within that cohort, actually, 338,000 people have opted out. So this bill actually has relevance to 1.7 million New Zealanders\u2014that is the 40 percent of New Zealanders who are not enrolled in KiwiSaver. I would like to highlight the fact that of those not enrolled, New Zealanders who earn under $30,000 are actually the most disadvantaged. They are the ones who have chosen not to opt into KiwiSaver, presumably because of their circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI want to take the opportunity to also highlight the Greens\u2019 Supplementary Order Paper 81, which would retain the $1,000 kick-start contribution for those holding a community services card. Why that cohort? Because, actually, that is the cohort of low to middle-income earners who are not engaging. So it is very much about ensuring that those who are not in the system have opportunities to participate. I have been looking at the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s report Who is enrolling in KiwiSaver?. It is dated February 2015 and it was prepared by the KiwiSaver Evaluation Steering Group. Of most relevance to me is that of the New Zealanders who have chosen to enrol, there are three enrolment types. The first enrolment type is people who enrol directly with a provider. So 40 percent of people who enrolled with KiwiSaver did so with a provider. Forty percent of people are automatically enrolled and 22 percent opt in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe rest of my speech is going to be focused on that particular cohort\u2014the 40 percent of people who automatically enrol. These are 18 to 64-year-olds who are in new jobs with a new employer and where that job is either full-time, permanent part-time, or it has got some sense of longevity to it. Here are some of the titles that I think this bill should have, actually. If you are auto-enrolled, this bill could be the \u201CKiwiSaver (If You Are Single and Aged Between 18 and 24, We Don\u2019t Care About You) Bill\u201D, because it is that cohort that is automatically enrolled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThis bill could also be called the \u201CKiwiSaver (If You Are M\u0101ori and Pacific Islander, You Are Not Our Priority) Bill\u201D, because, again, it is M\u0101ori and Pacific Islanders who automatically enrol. This could be the \u201CKiwiSaver (If You Are Secondary School - Educated, Hard Luck) Bill\u201D, because, actually, hard luck to you. You have got only a secondary school education so too bad; we are going to take this opportunity away from you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThis could also be called the \u201CKiwiSaver (If You Are Working in Lower White-Collar Positions, Work Longer Hours to Feed Your Family) Bill\u201D. How about we title it that? What about this one: the \u201CKiwiSaver (If You Are Working in the Retail, Trade, and Accommodation Industry, Get More Tips) Bill\u201D, because you have got to go and do things yourself. Obviously, this Government does not care about you. Finally, what about the \u201CKiwiSaver (If You Are Earning $35,000 or Less in Employment Income, Be Grateful With What You Have Got) Bill\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EFrom our perspective, there is a lack of analysis of this piece of legislation, in terms of whom this piece of legislation is going to hurt the most. This Government likes to stand on platitudes and talk about helping people out of hardship, helping people to create a better life for themselves and their families. But this report actually proves that it does not care, that this is all about saving money, and that, at the end of the day, evidence like this, which they have, should have gone to whoever is responsible for inland revenue and you should know the impact of this piece of legislation on the specific New Zealanders who are now going to have these opportunities taken away from them. If you out there think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002240dc2564d4834f66aaaf3ee299e341e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240dc2564d4834f66aaaf3ee299e341e4\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002231fe81244be94d67ad6b18d8421a6ba0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231fe81244be94d67ad6b18d8421a6ba0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Jan Logie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00222f5f07b9e1784a19b2166d0dc5c05962\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f5f07b9e1784a19b2166d0dc5c05962\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, that was a great decision. I am happy to take a call on the Committee stage of the so-called KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill, which, as has already been well canvassed, has very little meaning and conveys very little meaning to anyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI have several alternative titles for this bill, which I would like to explore in this Chamber. My first one is the \u201CIt\u2019s Working So Let\u2019s Fix It Bill\u201D because actually we know that New Zealand has a massive problem with savings or a lack of savings. It has been much worse than what it is now. My colleague James Shaw has already mentioned that New Zealand is 22nd out of 24 countries in the OECD in terms of low levels of savings. So, in international comparisons we have a real problem and this shows up quite significantly in our current account deficit. We have seen it over time in New Zealand. The Committee might be interested to know that household savings per capita in 1992 were $752, which is not particularly high. But you might be even more interested to know that in 2006, before KiwiSaver was brought in, household savings per capita were negative $1,359. We were in a crisis in terms of household debt at that point, which is what triggered the introduction\u2014I understand; I was not really involved at that time\u2014of KiwiSaver. Now, since we have had KiwiSaver, the levels of household savings are up to $627 per capita, so we are not even back to the point we were at in 1992. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI have some ambivalence over KiwiSaver. I will admit that upfront because we live in such an incredibly unequal society where so many people are surviving well below the breadline, in poverty. We know that a quarter of a million children are living in poverty and we know that so many workers, the majority of whom are women, M\u0101ori, Pasifika, and migrant workers, are in precarious work, living below that poverty line as well, and that two out of five children living in poverty are in families who are working. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo, in that context, KiwiSaver is a voluntary scheme\u2014it would be even worse if it was a compulsory one. When people are struggling to put food on the table, KiwiSaver actually exacerbates inequality in some ways because those who are earning the most are able to contribute the most and get more contributions from their employers, so their KiwiSaver savings go up. That is good for our current account deficit, that is good for our household capital accumulation, but it is not necessarily good for addressing inequality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EHowever, this $1,000 kick-start incentive actually is something that goes right across the board in terms of that universalism and is available to workers who cannot necessarily afford, who cannot sacrifice food on the table, to make weekly contributions for their future well-being. It is available to beneficiaries and the children of beneficiaries, whom we want to have the chance to get a leg up. So choosing this mechanism to remove this is actually the worst possible thing that the Government could do in relation to KiwiSaver\u2019s impact on addressing inequality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAnother idea I had for this bill, following on from the rather hilarious contribution, I thought, from the New Zealand First member who suggested this could be renamed the \u201COMG YOLO No Future Bill\u201D\u2014I had to be able to say that out loud; it was a pure moment in the Chamber for me. But I would suggest that another possibility for this title could be the \u201CBoom\u2014Your Incentive Is Gone Bill\u201D. Sorry, I did not manage to carry that off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a87b78223d5d483b9597793b4a92be13\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Boom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d432dcb9f9cd4eba853e545ec2f6a2fd\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: Boom\u2014no, I still cannot carry it off. But the point is real. This has come out of nowhere. I have heard from people, just on my Facebook thread, who were in the process\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00221d4b3758a37e435f907368646ce374f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d4b3758a37e435f907368646ce374f5\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022db6dac46f3e74911aaeb570d1a05c8fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db6dac46f3e74911aaeb570d1a05c8fe\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I think there has been a reasonable amount of discussion on this and I think the Committee is in a position to decide whether or not it wants to put the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ea2b0148dba34c6f9ad38a1e06594188\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00221e2cd23ffdfd4a889bbb2ebfe3bc14a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e2cd23ffdfd4a889bbb2ebfe3bc14a9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: There have been, I understand, two amendments tabled. The first, the amendment in the name of Iain Lees-Galloway on clause 1 to delete \u201CBudget Measures\u201D and replace it with \u201CCut Number 8\u201D, I am ruling out of order as not being a serious amendment or a serious title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00226d93763e142349f1934f03f9b140c2e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d93763e142349f1934f03f9b140c2e7\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5917950b3934ed0811eb7bd82d92f00\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is not going to dispute my ruling, is he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226984acd591e1477aaf18b4aa8478d149\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I seek some clarification. Thank you, Mr Chairperson, I appreciate your hearing this point of order. I would like some clarification about why you believe that that is not a serious amendment to the title. I dedicated probably a good 4 minutes of the 5 minutes I was given\u2014and I was prepared to give more\u2014to the reasons behind why that was an appropriate title. It was not in any way frivolous. There was evidence behind it. I provided that evidence in the contribution that I made. In fact, my colleague the Hon David Parker listed all eight of the cuts that that title amendment relates to in his speech on the first reading. It is not a frivolous contribution at all. It does relate to facts and evidence, and I would appreciate a serious consideration of your ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0ce453f9edf49d481210dbdd64b2b77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0ce453f9edf49d481210dbdd64b2b77\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. I will be slightly liberal and not take this as a criticism or as an attempt to relitigate, but I will point the member to Speakers\u2019 ruling 116/6, where it makes it clear that an amendment to the title of a bill cannot be an attempt to criticise its contents. That is how\u2014[Interruption] Mr Parker\u2014I have interpreted this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294b6254c3aa148a09a4dac42b06cefd8\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2160682b4c146a590072c7ba0ab4b13\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to make it absolutely clear to the member that he really has only one path now that is within the Standing Orders. I have made a ruling. That is not a ruling that I am able to reverse or to change. He does have only one course if he wants to change that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b87f7f9085fd425fbd9b65162ae403f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b87f7f9085fd425fbd9b65162ae403f7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Yes\u2014I am actually not seeking to overturn your ruling, but I am seeking clarification of your earlier ruling when you said that you could not have a point of order in respect of your ruling. I suggest that that was wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225ed7d296b63b4f4ba04a419ba47ef12a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ed7d296b63b4f4ba04a419ba47ef12a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I can contemplate that and do not need to rule on it now. I have ruled that amendment out. I have another one that is even easier to rule on. It is one in the name of Clayton Mitchell, which suggests that we delete the title and replace it with the following: \u201COMG YOLO #NOFUTURE\u201D. I am going to rule that out as not being consistent with current parliamentary drafting standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u002271c81a45e7e24da597f2cfa957da840b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271c81a45e7e24da597f2cfa957da840b\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. May I just speak to that ruling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00221249a48e20404dd692f2e5200849ec40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221249a48e20404dd692f2e5200849ec40\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I just want to make it very clear that the member is not going to relitigate or criticise or attempt to have it changed, because if he does, he will be being disorderly. I think I have been pretty liberal with a couple of people on this side of the Chamber, and I am unlikely to be liberal again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c6f1d5bd5c314eb183fd96a87b0b629b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022516b720db4ed43c583b1d200e21b5b83\u0022\u003EClause 2  Commencement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5fcdc246f28480889282122e6d16e2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5fcdc246f28480889282122e6d16e2b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Already we have on the Table an amendment from Fletcher Tabuteau, one from Dr David Clark, and one from Chris Hipkins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00223b125c42dd964aad9a05a9245219b7fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b125c42dd964aad9a05a9245219b7fa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E What a fair Chairman. It actually does speak well of the Chairman because I just had a wee confrontation with him and he is still big enough to call me, so thank you, Mr Chairman. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI want to talk to the commencement date. The commencement date is expressed to be when the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill gets Royal assent, but then there are two exceptions to that, which are that particular parts of the bill, once it receives Royal assent, are of retrospective effect. I want to talk about why we need to take particular care in respect of commencement dates in respect of legislation that goes to raiding retirement schemes, because the Government has got prior form on this. The National Party, which forms the majority of this Government, is the same party that raided the earlier retirement scheme under Muldoon. It killed off the Kirk scheme, which would have had New Zealand in a similar position to Australia in terms of investment capital. In fact, it was even earlier than the Australian scheme that followed it. It has killed off contributions to the Cullen fund. We have already seen that that has cost\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f99806eab8e84a17b122cec8d562348b\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: $16 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263a587081cc548f9ad5039216d1e00dd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the Cullen fund $16 billion at current rates of return because of that folly. And now we have cuts to KiwiSaver, particularly the $1,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAs to the date, you have got ask yourself this. The Government is doing this as of today, in the name, it says, of child poverty. When do its child poverty measures kick in? On 1 April next year. The Government is saying that it is a compassionate Government because it recognises that there are many children, many thousands of children, living in severe poverty in New Zealand. It accepts that these children sometimes go without breakfast, sometimes go without lunch at school, sometimes go without shoes, and can never pay their school fees, or just about never. It accepts that we have serious hardship in New Zealand amongst children and that they need $25 a week\u2014we think that is pretty miserly; our policy was $60 a week per child under 3\u2014but it says $25 a week because their circumstances are so desperate that they need more money for breakfast. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo those parents are going to go to their kids on Monday and they are going to say: \u201CNext year you can have breakfast.\u201D Look at their eyes down over there on the Government benches. One of the fundamental flaws relating to commencement dates in this total Budget package is that, actually, the Government acknowledges that there is a real and serious problem with child poverty now in New Zealand, but it is not going to fix it until 1 April next year\u2014and this in a wealthy country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EBut what will the Government do this year? This year it will kill the KiwiSaver kick-start payment, effective as of Budget day. It is backwards. Not April next year. It will take that off people next year. You know, that kick-start payment is deliberately progressive. The Labour Party designed it. We do things that are progressive. One thousand dollars to a low-income person is worth a lot more than $1,000 to a high-income person, partly because of their marginal tax rates and partly just because their income rate is lower. The progressive payment of $1,000 per person is progressive. The Government takes that away today, but the people whom it says are in poverty now do not get breakfast until next year. That sums up this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4bf07a451614b689e321c601bdd3bdb\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s how much they care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3ef97e8d5044002b096c68e467cb3e6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is how much it cares. It cares not enough. We accept that $25 a week next year is better than not getting $25 a week next year. We said we would get $60 a week into the pockets of those kids in poor families per child for the first 3 years of their life from this year. But we did not win the election; National did. With the KiwiSaver kick-start payment, we were actually going to spread it over 5 years as we got everyone into the scheme, but we were not going to cut it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe commencement date of this legislation is worthy of note because it highlights the fact that the Government pretends that it is worried about these children living in poverty who cannot get breakfast this year, but it is saying: \u201CYou won\u2019t get it till next year.\u201D I also want to return to the question of why it is that the bill has got a commencement date for reducing one of the incentives to KiwiSaver now when we have got a current account deficit that is blowing out, we have got exports dropping\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00228beddd69f1e348cba0eb36cfa196692a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228beddd69f1e348cba0eb36cfa196692a\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E I know that on the Government benches they were eager to hear my contribution, so I shall not disappoint. I have put forward an amendment to the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill to ensure that this kick-start contribution is not withdrawn until 2018. That would allow a future Labour Government to make sure that the kick-start contribution continues as it is now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is determined to take from New Zealand\u2019s future in order to pay for its mismanagement today. This is a Government with no plan. Those members opposite have got their heads down. They know that it is true. The Government is trying here to take $1,000 off future generations\u2014off half a million Kiwis in the next 4 years. That is what it is doing here, with this bill. Make no mistake if you are watching this at home. It is taking $1,000 off half a million Kiwis for their retirement savings because it has not managed the economy well, because it has failed to get to surplus, and because it is trying to make it look like it has not missed by too much. Actually, the books are a billion dollars worse than they were at the last Budget. The Government is doing an appalling job of managing the economy. It has failed in good times to diversify the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EMy amendment would push out the date on which this legislation starts, so that a Labour Government in the future could fix this before it actually takes effect. That is the effect of my amendment. If we look at how it stands now\u2014and it is here in the explanatory note in the general policy statement at the front of the bill. People at home may not have this in front them, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a4685d1474f4b3dbba7f57b4aab499b\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7dd8988214f40228ba56b0999f0f764\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they might\u2014they might. There are some who will. But if they do not, I will explain that what this bill attempts to do is enact retrospective legislation. When the Budget was announced at 2 p.m. on Thursday, that was the cut-off point. If people had not signed up at that point, they were not eligible to get the kick-start contribution any more. Why did the Government make that change retrospective? Why is it passing legislation now\u2014after that time\u2014that takes effect a few days ago? It is because it knows, in its heart of hearts, that this incentive works. It knows that if people really wanted to sign up to this programme just because it was so, they would have done it anyway. That the incentive really matters is something that Government members try to deny, but they know that if they made this change start a little later, people would be rushing out there to sign up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThere is also an amendment in the name of Chris Hipkins, which I expect he will speak to on that front, which allows for people who may be watching at home and saying \u201CGosh, I wish I\u2019d got that $1,000.\u201D to go out and sign up in the next few months. It is a sensible amendment. If the Government members really believed that that was not going to be the effect of this legislation, if they really believed that $1,000 would make no difference, they would accept Chris Hipkin\u2019s amendment and they would accept my amendment, which allows for that $1,000 to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EMy amendment is really targeted at the artificial surplus that the Government is creating, because this is a Budget without vision. This Budget is one that fails to meet the Government\u2019s promise of a surplus\u2014the central promise of its last election campaign. This amendment says: \u201CWe will continue with this very good scheme until a future Labour Government can correct it.\u201D That is why I am putting forward an amendment in clause 2 of the bill. As it currently stands, it came into force, as I said, the moment the Budget was announced. We know that this will have an effect. We also know that the changes that the Government is proposing are going to cost taxpayers, so we would obviate that cost with my amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe extra $210,000 that the Government estimates currently that it would cost to change the Inland Revenue Department tax system in order to take this money away from future kids\u2014$210,000 to take the money away from future kids\u2014would be avoided. Let us think about that. That is 210 kids\u2019 starts in life\u2014210\u2014that are paid for just by avoiding this change. The Government spends the money frivolously on Government administration because it is scampering for the surplus. The bill was a panicked response. We know that, and we have heard that in the previous debate, because it is right there in the Government\u2019s own departmental statements. It is important for the reason that it avoids costs to the Inland Revenue Department, and by flow-on effect it avoids costs to the taxpayer. That $210,000 can be avoided. I would think that members opposite would consider it to be important to take into account how New Zealand taxpayers\u2019 money is spent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u002215bec773c03f43c6a1656b85cfe98fff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215bec773c03f43c6a1656b85cfe98fff\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to speak to the commencement date, as outlined in clause 2, of the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill as well. I note that in my last call I asked Mr Woodhouse, the Minister in the chair, whether he would respond to a number of questions, which he did not. One of them or, in fact, a couple of them relate directly to this clause, which is the commencement date. What we know is that the Government has said that it wants to introduce this immediately, and has taken the attitude that if you are not already currently enrolled in the scheme, then the chances that you are ever going to get enrolled in the scheme are low to none, and so what would be the harm in immediate commencement? We also know that there are people out there who have been thinking about it. We know from behavioural economics that there is a substantial tail of people for whom it is a complicated process and they would like to get round to it but they have not yet got round to it. The question is: why not just extend this out and have it commence at a later date in order to incentivise those who are currently not in the scheme, but were kind of thinking about it, to actually get into the scheme? Yes, it would cost a little bit more money, but if the intention here is to scoop up as many people as possible using the incentive, then we ought to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI know that there are a number of amendments. There is David Clark\u2019s amendment pushing the commencement date out to after the next election. There is also Fletcher Tabuteau\u2019s amendment pushing it out by a couple of years. I take the Labour Party\u2019s point\u2014which I think is a valid one\u2014that if you commence this bill immediately but not the rest of the hardship package until the beginning of the next financial year, then there is a substantial gap there between the commencement of this cut and then the implementation of the benefit increases. Why not just line them up? Why not say: \u201CLet\u2019s commence this at the start of the next financial year.\u201D? That gives people an incentive. If they are currently not in the scheme, it says you have got 8 or 9 months to get yourself into the scheme. It makes perfect sense to do that, and then after that the incentive will be gone. People will have had fair warning and, at the same time, you will have joined it up with the rest of your benefits package that you have been talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ETo me it makes perfect sense to do that. I have not yet heard anybody from the Government say anything about why it was chosen to have this immediate and retrospective commencement date and whether there was any consideration at all of any kind of zone where people who are currently not in the scheme could get into the scheme. I really would like a response to that. I notice that Simon Bridges has now taken the Government\u2019s position in the chair, and I have noted in previous debates that Mr Bridges has responded directly to these kinds of points, so I would like to invite him to do so. I understand that the vote is going to go the way it is going to go, but it would be nice to hear the Government\u2019s reasoning in response to that point, because I think it is a fair and valid one. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u00229558502dc87d46ec80beadf9a2ac0d98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229558502dc87d46ec80beadf9a2ac0d98\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you\u2014[Interruption] Thanks for the response on the other side of the Chamber. Thanks, gentlemen. The whole premise of this legislation and the whole logic that we are given behind it in order to debate today is, we are told, that the $1,000 kick-start contribution is no longer sufficient or, actually, it is unwarranted because it does not do enough to engage people into KiwiSaver, people are not coming into KiwiSaver any more, this $1,000 contribution is not doing what we want it to, and it is costing us too much money. That is the logic that this Government provides this Committee today, and it is why we are debating this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EOn top of that, the policy advice that we and the Government were given was, actually, to ignore the implications to saving in terms of the national interest for New Zealand. So do not look at that; just analyse why we should get rid of this KiwiSaver contribution, because we need an excuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EMy challenge\u2014and I will not take all of my time, because it is a simple challenge\u2014to this Government is to consider the fact that based on the premise of your logic today, you do not need retrospective legislation. You did not need to bring this in days ago. There is no reason for it under the premise of the logic that you have provided this Committee with today. Give New Zealanders time. You have put it out there publicly now. Give them time so that they can engage in their savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EWe have heard such impassioned contributions and meaningful contributions from this side of the Chamber about who is missing out, and so that I focus on this clause solely, I will just repeat that it was said. I will not go into the detail again. But let us use another piece of logic. Let us line up the changes in legislation, which is what the two Supplementary Order Papers have suggested. Let us line them up. We are bringing these welfare changes in in a couple of years. Let us give New Zealanders the same opportunity to react. Let us give them time to understand that now is the time to get into their KiwiSaver programme. I know that it was cynically asked how we get New Zealanders into KiwiSaver. Well, my cynical response will be that this Government will make it compulsory. Do not do that. Give them a real reason. Give them that incentive that our youth need. Let us even up the playing field. There is no need under the logic provided by the Government to this Committee. The very reason for this debate is that it is no longer an incentive. Well, let us bring it in just before the election and let the Government members stand in front of the public and say to them \u201CWe are taking away your KiwiSaver.\u201D when it is fresh in the public\u2019s mind. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002288c74ecd9982442dad0c02c035c6b9ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288c74ecd9982442dad0c02c035c6b9ed\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak to the amendment to clause 2 of the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill that I have put forward, which would move the commencement date of the main part of this legislation from 21 May 2015\u2014Budget day\u2014through to 21 June 2015. It would give people who have not had the opportunity to take up the kick-start just over a month to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIn speaking to this amendment, I want to particularly address my comments to the five new National members on the other side of the House. Those five National members all campaigned under the same slogan, which was that they promised to be \u201Cthe strong voice for [insert electorate name here] in John Key\u2019s National Government\u201D. They had advertisements up and down the country and on their cars, campaigning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c87afa3190f844f1993c2da279793e1b\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: And a fresh face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022737eed7ec5a142158613768a0fb6318e\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Chris Bishop has still got one in the basement with the slogan on it. It sits in the basement now because he has given up. The slogan was to be \u201Ca strong voice in John Key\u2019s National Government\u201D. Well, let us hear it. Let us hear that strong voice. Let us hear them stand up and say why they think that the Kiwis who have not yet signed up to KiwiSaver should not get the $1,000 kick-start. Let us hear them stand up and explain why this legislation needs to be retrospectively backdated to stop Kiwis who have not signed up from being able to get the $1,000 kick-start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe amendment that I have put forward would give them a month to do so, and if the Government thinks that this is an unfair advantage, then say so. Let us hear it. Let us hear those members say it, because let us actually think about the practical implications of this. If somebody on Thursday\u2014it is still Thursday in the House today, according to the rules of the House. So if somebody today, under the rules of the House\u2014which was actually Thursday in the real world\u2014went out in their lunch break and signed up for KiwiSaver at 1.30 p.m., then they would get $1,000 for doing so. But if somebody signed up right now, before this bill has even finished its passage through the House, they would not get that $1,000. We are talking about a matter of an hour. How is that fair? I am happy to hear from anyone from the Government about how they think that is fair. It is not\u2014it is not. If the Government really believed in this change and it really thought that this was necessary, it would at least give the New Zealanders who have not had the chance to sign up the opportunity to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EHere is another example and another reason why Kiwis should be given extra time to take up the measure, and why my amendment is well and truly justified. If a child is born into a family earning a middle or higher income, or has been born in that family in, say, the last 6 months to a year, and their parents took up the opportunity to sign them up to KiwiSaver, then they are going to get the $1,000. On the other hand, somebody who has been working their way up in a minimum wage job to get themselves to the point\u2014and they may have just got to that point around about now\u2014where they can finally afford to sign up to KiwiSaver is not going to get it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis reinforces inequality in the system. It says to somebody that if they have had the good fortune in the last few years to have been born into a family who could afford to sign them up to KiwiSaver right when they were born, they are going to get an advantage. Compare that with someone who is working really hard and is potentially at the point now where they can finally sign up to KiwiSaver; they could have been working towards it. They are not going to get the $1,000 kick-start that somebody who has had the good fortune to be born into a family who could afford it is going to get. That is unfair. So why not give those people who are on low incomes, who have been delaying signing up into KiwiSaver until they were in a financial position to do so\u2014why not give them a month?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3ee10033b47441f859aa6f093040010\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What about the next generation of low-income earners? What a stupid speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a71fc65704e34f1398b5718df1f874f3\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Why not just give them a year to actually see whether they can make it across that hurdle? Why not be fair? David Bennett says it is not fair. David Bennett is about the only member on that side of the House whom I am willing to hear criticism from on KiwiSaver, because he is one of the only people on the other side of the House who has not actually signed up to KiwiSaver. As my colleague Kris Faafoi pointed out, he is either very principled or very stupid\u2014probably the latter. But\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221492e6336614453cb5e69ceed82be0c6\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. From an inane member like that, I am not accepting that comment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec2344557e5b426eb41a381fead48763\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will sit down. First of all, the member is going to withdraw and apologise for being disorderly during his point of order. When he has done that he will have one chance to raise a proper point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c3353009a0b42cfa2cdb326bd45a589\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f17427b4220d4cc8899f972acca5a960\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you are going to withdraw and apologise anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bd385f4e7db40588e1687f7cecbf3d4\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise, but I ask that member to withdraw and apologise as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab2b54b766794db5bc46950e2b7fa6c0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: You have now got your last chance, if you want to stay in the House, to withdraw and apologise, with nothing else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d772e62521394126b6d92f1c57cdfef1\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c9a92aceea04954a45fe906bcd8f503\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I am happy to wrap up this contribution on my amendment, although I might have a little bit more time to go, but we will see how we go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI want to speak to another reason why this amendment that I have put forward should be adopted by the House. I want to say, as matter of principle, that I would rather David Clark\u2019s amendment be passed. It pushes this commencement date out beyond the next election so that New Zealanders can actually have a say on it, because this was not a change foreshadowed by National at the last election, and New Zealanders should have the opportunity to vote on it. But if the Government is not of a mind to support that, I hope that it will support my amendment. If the Government members were genuine in the contributions that they made\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u002234a88c5d02fd42b293eaa48169a26cb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234a88c5d02fd42b293eaa48169a26cb8\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support Chris Hipkins\u2019 amendment because, as he said, the current commencement date is not fair. But what I would like to say is that I think it is probably even fairer to push that date, as David Clark\u2019s amendment proposes, right through to beyond the election, so that it is actually an election issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ELet us face it, in Budgets gone by, with the old Budgets in the past, people used to go out in the evening of the day before and fill up their cars with petrol because they thought that the price of petrol was going to go up. This Government has the practice of cutting a clause out of KiwiSaver in every single Budget, so that it undermines the very premise on which this scheme is running. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ETwo and a half million people have signed up for KiwiSaver\u20142.5 million people. It is an outstanding success, and why are those people signing up? Well, according to the Inland Revenue Department\u2014and the department has done an extensive number of surveys on this\u201465 percent of the people who sign up for KiwiSaver do so to collect the $1,000 kick-start. So now you have just moved that out of the way, on top of all of the other cuts that have been made over the years by this Government, and what we are seeing is sort of like a chair that has had one leg cut off and has then had another leg cut off. Slowly, but surely, this Government is wanting to see how long it is going to be before KiwiSaver just completely collapses and falls over, and New Zealanders lose confidence in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EIf there is one thing that I believe changing the commencement clause will do, it is that it will give people the ability to be able to say whether or not they want to keep this kick-start, and that would enable them\u2014before the next election, according to the amendment that David Clark is putting forward\u2014to make a fair and true decision on whether they want that $1,000 or not. I would say that just about everybody, of course, will want it, and they will want it not only for the dollar value that it represents but also for the fact that it represents our continuing to maintain the integrity of a scheme that is important over time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWe go into a superannuation scheme\u2014as with this scheme in the past, but now people will not have the opportunity to do this any more\u2014on the understanding that there is going to be a nest egg at the end and that the incentives for us to put our money into that scheme for that nest egg are going to be there. But we have had at least six different cuts made to KiwiSaver in the course of this Government. It has cut, for example, the minimum member contribution\u2014that was in 2009. It has cut the member fee subsidy\u2014that was in April 2009. It has cut the compulsory employer contributions. It has cut the employer tax credit, to disincentivise employers to put money into it. It has cut the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022651fc9499c6942a3a3e8b4ea127ce2f6\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I raise this point of order under Speaker\u2019s ruling 114/7. I have been listening to this member for some time. We are on a very narrow commencement clause of this particular bill, and this member is straying far from that. He needs to either come back to the commencement date or cease his call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291594fddf28246f5b2478923e10b677f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, could you tell me the Speaker\u2019s ruling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cf4a108e19a4a39b634567db1ac4b60\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: It is Speaker\u2019s ruling 114/7. It is the ruling of Rick Barker when he was the Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295883c34c43a4505bf429c95c9a33adc\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: That is a question of relevance, and relevance is a question that is decided by the Chair, not by a point of order. I might say, though, that I had come to that conclusion myself already and probably would have taken it into account as to the length of the debate. I was going to warn the next speaker that we are now talking about the date on which this bill comes into force. It is not a general debate on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b6fa27504b4449f94af5159a3f9529d\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: Just to make that completely relevant, all of those cuts that I was talking about happened without warning. They all happened without warning. They all cut a scheme that people had confidence in, and that is why it is so important and so fair to ensure that the commencement date is out into the future so that at least people out there can make a decision that is informed, that is fair, as to whether or not they want to join this scheme. If we do not do that, the insidious erosion of confidence in KiwiSaver will continue to occur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThat is why I agree, in order of priority, with David Clark\u2019s amendment and then Chris Hipkins\u2019 amendment. Both of those amendments propose the commencement of this bill in the future, rather than having it imposed upon us retrospectively so that people who had been thinking about getting into KiwiSaver, toying with the idea of doing it, are now no longer able to enjoy the benefits of the $1,000 that would have been put into it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThis is, I believe, an undermining of a fabulous scheme. It was put in by the Labour Government. I agree that this Government has taken it and cut it and cut it and cut it. This bill is another example of that cut.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u00229120b529fd05419dbf9a18c8fc923988\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229120b529fd05419dbf9a18c8fc923988\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on clause 2 of this bill, the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill. I think there are some Supplementary Order Papers on the Table that are fair and reasonable. Let us be honest. What we are asking with these Supplementary Order Papers in particular is for National to keep it real. Keep it real for New Zealanders about what you are actually doing here. You are quick off the hip when it comes to making legislative changes and very, very slow to give back those changes. What we are asking\u2014and I spoke to this earlier on in my comments\u2014is to think about those people and give them enough time to go in and register for KiwiSaver. It is not unfair or unreasonable to ask that. I would certainly like to get the words from the Minister. You will be pleased to see, Mr Chair, that I am wearing my pink tie. I am impervious to insult and injury today because, of course, this is my bully-proof suit, so I look forward to hearing from Simon Bridges, the Minister in the chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EHowever, I would like to say that being fair and reasonable is absolutely what this Government should be. Does it stand scrutiny? What the Government is doing is taking it away so quickly that it is ripping the carpet out from underneath the feet of those New Zealanders who need to be looked out for. The Government is dressing it up and putting a bow around it, but, in actual fact, it is just putting lipstick on a pig. This does not fit in with what National says is standing up and being a voice for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f7ce06471d14c41b279d2a10170508a\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: This is another transgender comment, is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269ba7e7cf0684350938fbd4ae20da1b9\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Apart from the absolute brain constipation that I get from the verbal diarrhoea from the other side of the Chamber from time to time\u2014and I am specifically talking to you, Mr Bennett\u2014we need to make sure that we are giving the people of New Zealand enough time to react to this quick-off-the-hip legislative change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EWe have got Supplementary Order Paper 85 from my colleague Mr Fletcher Tabuteau, which makes sense\u2014it absolutely makes sense. It is common sense to give people at least 2 years\u20142 years\u2014to make some changes in order to get themselves into that scheme. In fact, we got it from Labour, and we got it from the Greens as well, to narrow it down\u2014even to 1 year would be acceptable, and we would support that. Goodness me, we would support 90 days if this Government saw the sense in what that would do. You need to give the people of New Zealand some time to get in and get adjusted to this legislation, which is being force-fed down our throats. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EWe are in urgency at the moment, on a Saturday morning, and I am sure there are many, many people at home who are absolutely riveted to this. Watching this debate is like watching an All Blacks test match.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298861f6544b6457b9416e18c8d7507f3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022512d459214e84beda72eb8b7d6d7156c\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: It is afternoon already. Goodness me! It feels like I have just arrived. You know, when I look at the indebtedness of this country, as of Tuesday it was $19,511 per New Zealander, and it has now gone up to about $20,000 per New Zealander. That is more indebtedness than Kaipara District Council had, at $10,500 per head of population, which sent it to the wall. Now, all of a sudden, under this legislation you are taking more money away from New Zealanders, making it harder for that debt to be repaid for our future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s future is at serious risk. We spoke about the curve of having an aged population, a very skinny working population, and a very large and growing young population, which we are going to have to manage and maintain through schemes such as KiwiSaver. With the kick-start programme, 66 percent of people signed up to KiwiSaver because of that $1,000 kick-start\u2014many, many people. I was fortunate enough to sign up to an AMP life insurance whole-of-life policy when I was 19 years old because it made sense and because there was nothing else that the Government was going to offer us back then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022641e9e2f60e6494eb946b2e482d0ff7f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to invite the member to come back to the clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3b20ae8fa9c480eb1e05d0c0719ca82\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to come back to the time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ded4377da344f3996700636681c345e\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: The member also needs to explain how this will stop us repaying debt. It seems to be his argument, but it makes no sense at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222422869612da46b0b8e3f501d4ff1dd2\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Righty-o. The reason why we suggested the name change for the bill of \u201C#nofuture\u201D, is that this is the time. If we do not start thinking about the future of our constituents, of the people of New Zealand, time will be running out, so I absolutely think that this Government should be supporting giving those people a longer period of time to sign themselves up to KiwiSaver. To say, retrospectively, that last Thursday was the cut-off point is absolutely wrong. I would love to hear from Minister Simon Bridges to see how he can justify that. He is nodding his head in agreement. It sounds like he might take a call. We would certainly like to hear from him. Just remember, I have my bully-proof suit and pink tie on today, so hit me with all of your best insults. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229bcea630afe648858728c49fab812d34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bcea630afe648858728c49fab812d34\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E In speaking to the commencement clause, if I were to choose a date, I would choose 5 August 2016 as the commencement date of this bill. I would do that because it would be a continuation of the legacy set in the 1970s\u2014on 5 August 1976. Next year will be the 40th anniversary of the Government of the Rt Hon Robert Muldoon withdrawing the then-current superannuation scheme. To make further comparisons to that legacy, the Rt Hon Robert Muldoon said that that superannuation scheme was turning New Zealand into a Soviet clone. The comparison is that the Prime Minister John Key has said that KiwiSaver was \u201Ccommunism by stealth\u201D. So here is a really tight comparison between that Government then and the Government now, and the legacy that the National Government continues today by trying to push through this legislation under urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThere was an article written in the New Zealand Herald before the 2008 election that warned the National Party not to go down the same path. Well, the genius of KiwiSaver, put in place by the Labour Government under Michael Cullen, was that it has taken this Government eight attempts, over 7 years, to try to get rid of KiwiSaver. The article I refer to ends with the words: \u201CIt would be a tragedy if a new National Government, under Key and English, made the same dreadful mistake as Muldoon in December 1975.\u201D The Government has made that mistake over the last 7 years by making eight cuts to the scheme. So the commencement ought to be on that anniversary, to commemorate the 40 years since the National Government cut that superannuation scheme and denied our country of having a fund of $280 billion for a future for our children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation, as has already been stated, steals from future generations. Well, I am part of the generation that that act of Robert Muldoon stole from\u2014my generation and future generations\u2014and the National Government is continuing to enhance that legacy. It is wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI oppose this bill in its entirety, but I suggest that the commencement date ought to be 5 August 2016, to give ordinary New Zealanders the opportunity to have the same benefits that members opposite have had and that the whole of New Zealand ought to be able to have as well. That is my contribution to this part of the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00220cc2c876570e468fa917bc91598d9a9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220cc2c876570e468fa917bc91598d9a9b\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00220326d804e7c74270b8d837f96b148522\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220326d804e7c74270b8d837f96b148522\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take the first of what I hope will be a series of calls on this important bill, which is going to be bad for New Zealanders, bad for the New Zealand economy, and, actually, bad for our financial and saving institutions as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EAs you know, we are in the technical part of the debate here, where we are going clause by clause. I want to begin by offering some fairly narrow comments on the commencement date itself. This is an example of misplaced use of a retrospective commencement date. It is actually quite a confused clause in itself, because clause 2(1) says that the Act will come into force on the day on which it receives the Royal assent\u2014but no date is provided, breaching what is a longstanding good-practice convention upheld by Parliament in its Regulations Review Committee. In clause 2(2), however, it says that \u201CSection 4\u201D\u2014the operative section\u2014\u201Cis treated as coming into force on 1 May 2015.\u201D Given that that is prior to today, that ensures a retrospective effect. That means that a young Kiwi who today hears that this door is closing cannot now join KiwiSaver. It is too late, because Parliament, if it passes this bill, will deem that the door shut nearly 3 weeks ago. This is a retrospective instrument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhy would you do that? Or why would the Government do that, when the argument that it has, ostensibly, for trying to take away the $1,000 kick-start contribution is that not enough people have joined the scheme and not enough people have saved? That is its argument. Of course, it is a fallacy, but that is what the Government is trying to convince New Zealanders of. If the Government set, as my colleague Chris Hipkins has suggested, a future close-off date, there would be a very strong incentive for anyone who is not currently a member of the scheme to join it. That would be a very good thing, and it would support the very objectives that the Government has said it espouses. It would encourage people to join the scheme and to save more, particularly those vulnerable or low-income people who to date have been the slowest to join. So setting a retrospective close-off prevents people joining and prevents the very objective that the Government says it holds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EEven better would, of course, be my colleague David Clark\u2019s amendment, which is that the commencement date be deferred until after the coming election. Then it would never happen, because the chances of the Government getting returned have got to be very, very low. But, in principle, that would be a better option, because New Zealanders would have the opportunity to vote based on the information that the Government has given to them only after the election. The National Party did not campaign on stealing back the KiwiSaver kick-start contribution. Not one word was said about its eighth attempt to gut KiwiSaver. Not one mention was made of Robert David Muldoon wrecking the last Labour-led savings scheme, which, if we had kept, we would be a country as rich as Australia now. This is classic National Party \u201Cshort-termism\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhy has the Government got this commencement date? It is relying on a very late-to-the-piece evaluation by the Inland Revenue Department that was released concurrently with this bill\u2014i.e., it has had no opportunity for peer review or public criticism. It has simply been fed into this retrospective measure. It is a very, very interesting piece of analysis, because it frames the question up front away from the broader objectives that the KiwiSaver scheme has had from its inception. Those objectives were really three-way: firstly, to help all New Zealanders save, and save more, for their retirement and their general financial well-being; and, secondly, to strengthen our domestic financial institutions so we have sticky, local capital that we can invest in Kiwi businesses and Kiwi jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EMembers opposite are not focused on the debate; they are focused on the gallery. That is a very interesting thing, because this is a very\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e2cb5b301a144a796f5bbaca15a550b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d582245ec97421d848ce1d345661e55\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014far-reaching measure that affects millions of New Zealanders. It affects millions of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe third objective for KiwiSaver has always been to improve New Zealand\u2019s net savings position so that we reduce the current account deficit, strengthen our total balance sheet, and fit New Zealand for the future. And what is really interesting in the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s analysis is that it has completely ignored 2\u00BD of those three goals. It has ignored the broad fiscal savings gap issue and the current account deficit that flows from it. It has ignored the issues around the health of our financial institutions and our ability to invest in our own future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u00224588d888126e4faf8b7906920e0c0aaa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224588d888126e4faf8b7906920e0c0aaa\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e71d66cec4ba422fb9a0bc2691383909\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e71d66cec4ba422fb9a0bc2691383909\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I think it is fair to say that we have had some repetition\u2014quite a lot of repetition\u2014and some irrelevance. I think some of the arguments have been elegant, but it has been a while since we have had anything new. The Committee can decide whether or not it wants to move on to the next clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022dacaf2e7c6c149f7ba20ddb65f28c94c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000381\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 85 in the name of Fletcher Tabuteau to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a03131fd484e45ff9193890af5deb937\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000382\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Dr David Clark to clause 2 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000383\u0022\u003Ereplace this clause with the following new clause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000384\u0022\u003E2\tCommencement\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000385\u0022\u003EThis Act comes into force on 1 May 2018. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022eb52c9be98d844da8f60911a7f1f1268\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000386\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Chris Hipkins to clause 2 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000387\u0022\u003Ein subclause (3), replace \u201Cat 2 pm on 21 May 2015\u201D with \u201Con 21 June 2015\u201D. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229a394fb461fc434f81c3b7c2df63e103\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b9f5186bd8114c0e9849f752a2ab0634\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000388\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228e3b503979654341a979070bef3780bc\u0022\u003EClause 3  Principal Act amended\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b349ffb2da4d41b1b2288f656dbe61bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b349ffb2da4d41b1b2288f656dbe61bb\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E This is a clause that refers to the principal Act and to amending the principal Act. I have a very short story that I wish to share with the Committee, which illustrates the benefit of not amending this Act but, instead, of attaching the legislation to another Act. It is a story that some will know and that some will not know. It is the story of Nasrudin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ENasrudin was caught in the act and sentenced to die. Hauled up before the king, he was asked by the royal presence: \u201CIs there any reason at all why I shouldn\u2019t have your head off right now?\u201D. To which, he replied: \u201COh, king, live for ever. I know that I, the mullah Nasrudin, am the greatest teacher in your kingdom, and it would surely be a waste to kill such a great teacher. So skilled am I that I could even teach your favourite horse to sing, given a year to work on it.\u201D The king was amused and said: \u201CVery well then, you move into the stable immediately, and if the horse isn\u2019t singing a year from now, we\u2019ll think of something interesting to do with you.\u201D The story concludes that as he was returning to his cell to pick up his spare rags, his cellmate remonstrated: \u201CNow that was a very stupid promise. You know that you can\u2019t teach that horse to sing, no matter how long you try.\u201D Nasrudin responded: \u201CNot at all. I have a year now that I didn\u2019t have before, and a lot of things can happen in a year. The king might die. The horse might die. I might die. And who knows, maybe the horse will sing.\u201D That is a story\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f197e91f965f431fa81a23cca722148d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! We have had 2 minutes of something that is completely unrelated to the bill. I will ask the member to focus on the clause before the Committee in future debates. This is clause 3. It is a very narrow debate, this part on clause 3, so I now ask the member to continue on clause 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bb4ffc9889e4ca4bfac3f6a744d3a15\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250d0271b5f274946b259897f87f12df3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have ruled. I am waiting for you to continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d10292ea657146d2936ab50cbfaf0fae\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I will continue to speak to the principal Act amendment by saying that the story that I have just told illustrates clearly the benefit of not amending this principal Act and of amending another Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EFor example, the estimates\u2014what if we amended the estimates? That debate is still to be had. We have not had that debate yet. There are plenty of other debates that will be had this year in the House. If this legislation was amending those Acts, if the legislation was jiggered around so that it could fit into another Act, it would wait to be passed and we would not be passing it under urgency today without input from the public and without the opportunity to speak about why this deprives New Zealanders\u2014half a million New Zealanders, the Government tells us\u2014of the opportunity to get the $1,000 kick-start payment. That is why it is important to wait. Many things could happen if we amended this legislation in another way and allowed an opportunity for the public to comment. The Government might be persuaded. It might hear the logic that has been espoused in this House. No doubt there will be more that the public can add. That is why we have the select committee process. In the short time we have had, we have already heard from some stakeholders who have launched press releases to the public\u2014for example, the Financial Services Council has said that this legislation is like robbing the kids\u2019 piggy banks and heading down to the pub for one more beer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EMany members of the public will have their own wisdom to bring to the table. They may bring their own version of the story of Nasrudin. What we do know is that when we have measured processes through this House, we get valuable input from the public. So by changing the principal Act that is to be amended to a different Act that is to be debated in this parliamentary Chamber later, we provide more opportunity for people to engage with the debate and for this crazy change to be pushed out to another time. Who knows\u2014the Prime Minister may step aside. We know that he is increasingly out of touch with New Zealanders, and there are movements within his own Cabinet. So many, many things can happen, and that is why if we do not amend this principal Act in this way but choose to attach it to another Act, additional time will benefit us all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EFirstly, let us examine what would happen if we did not amend this Act\u2014if we actually left this entire clause out. What would happen if we left this entire clause out? That is an interesting question. What happens if you leave the entire clause out of the bill is that the legislation does not make sense any more. On this side of the Committee, we would argue that it never made sense anyway, but that is a debating point. We do not particularly like what is being rammed through here under urgency. But, actually, if you did not amend the principal Act, the KiwiSaver Act 2006\u2014an Act that was designed to increase savings and an Act that we have been told in the debate has increased savings by an estimated 36 percent, according the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s own research on the effect of the KiwiSaver Act 2006, which is referred to in this clause\u2014we would continue, we imagine, to attract savers at a rate of additionality that is similar to the 36 percent reported by the Inland Revenue Department in its extensive review of the effects of this particular legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIt said that its estimate was about 36 percent in 2010, and that that had not changed significantly in 2013. So what it is saying there is that this Act increases savings for New Zealanders. It actually changes the savings culture. If you did not put this clause in here\u2014if this clause was not in here and this Act was not amended\u2014then that 36 percent would not be lost, and New Zealanders would continue to save at a rate superior to the rate that they were saving before the KiwiSaver Act 2006 was introduced. That is why I think it is important that we just leave this clause out. I would be in favour of that. I would be interested to see what the Government members say\u2014whether they think that this clause should be left out or not. I am sure that Dr Nick Smith, the Minister in the chair, will have a view on that\u2014he has a view on most things\u2014unless he is so ashamed of this legislation that he does not wish to speak to this particular clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274c3e71c737d456282b3ed35b483a937\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Like the member. I\u2019m confounded that the member hasn\u2019t been on one of those quiz shows. He knows so much about everything. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e99c2df9e20d4efbaba3a7a89febee4f\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: That is very flattering, Mr Brownlee\u2014very flattering, Mr Brownlee. I would enjoy being on a quiz show with Mr Brownlee, because I do find Mr Brownlee entertaining at least. Although Mr Brownlee may not bring much substance to this particular debate, he is an entertaining member of the House, and so I would welcome the opportunity to be on a quiz show with him. I do not know\u2014perhaps he can suggest some shows. He is quick on his feet. We should have a debate about what show that might be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI will return to the matter at hand, although I look forward to Mr Brownlee\u2019s contribution shortly, because I expect he will want to defend this clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227989500b91ba45bd85f9c808e1475a45\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I have spoken, and you should consider it the last word. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022602f7dd1a5924faaa1b1adc3cf097619\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee says that his speech should be considered the last word. If that is not a sign of a Government that is out of touch and that has lost touch with the people of New Zealand, then I do not think anything is. That is the kind of wisdom that Mr Brownlee brings to this Chamber\u2014his word is the last word, he is the Leader of the House. That is the reason that this legislation is going through under urgency, because he says his word is the last word, New Zealanders be damned. Anyone who objects to this should not have the opportunity to participate in the parliamentary debate. That is the kind of Government that we have opposite. That is the kind of Government we are staring down today as we protest against the changes that are proposed in this bill, which over the next 4 years will rob half a million New Zealanders of that $1,000 that every single National MP has taken advantage of. Not one of them will stand up and say that they have not taken advantage of it. That is what we are facing here in this Committee. I think that is very, very much a lesson to those at home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EMr Smith is putting up his hand to speak. I look forward to his contribution after this, because he is a man who might set that record straight. He might say that many National MPs have not taken up that $1,000. He might say that he has not lined up his own family to take advantage of it. Who knows? We will see. We have certainly heard from one member of this House who has confessed that he and his family have taken it up, and now they are cutting it off for everyone else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is out of ideas. It has failed to produce a surplus. And here we have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259ca5ec25c1f42eeaa28051590cbd06e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Come back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c7175ea749e4afc938dbe81193f0f5b\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, coming back to the point, Mr Chair, and you are quite rightly bringing me back to the point of the matter. I was feeling quite passionate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIf we left out clause 3, the bill would not amend the KiwiSaver Act and New Zealanders would continue to save at that additional rate that the Inland Revenue Department recommends of 36 percent and the savings of New Zealand would continue to be superior to what they were before the Act was introduced. That is why I think clause 3 should be left out of this bill. I do think that would make a difference for New Zealand in the longer term. It would encourage the savings culture that this Labour KiwiSaver Act brought into place. It would be a disappointment to the Government, of course, because it is more concerned with its sham surplus, which it cannot achieve anyway, and filling the billion-dollar black hole in its Budget, which its economic mismanagement has opened up over the last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u002281e1e17dbab04fc0837827672df3b253\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281e1e17dbab04fc0837827672df3b253\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E To speak to clause 3 of this bill: it is a very narrow debate and it does focus around the Act that this bill amends, the KiwiSaver Act 2006. I think it would be useful to look at the purpose of that Act, if I can have some time from the Chair to read that out, because I think what we may have here as a situation is where what is being amended in this bill does not necessarily match with the purpose set out in the principal Act. If I can quote from the purpose section of the KiwiSaver Act 2006, which reads: \u201C(1) The purpose of this Act is to encourage a long-term savings habit and asset accumulation by individuals who are not in a position to enjoy standards of living in retirement similar to those in pre-retirement. The Act aims to increase individuals\u2019 well-being and financial independence, particularly in retirement, and to provide retirement benefits.\u201D As I said, that is the purpose as set out in the KiwiSaver Act 2006. The main function of the bill in front of us now is to remove the $1,000 kick-start payment to anyone who wants to join KiwiSaver. One of the arguments on this side of the Chamber around the amendments to the KiwiSaver Act 2006 is that it will no longer allow youngsters to sign up to KiwiSaver and get that $1,000 kick-start\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7e8bffe7cb442d6962cac896954218b\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: From when? From next week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224192354704064fc9aeb9081df1920031\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Not from next week but backdated to 2 p.m. on 21 May. I would like to ask the Minister in the chair how taking away that $1,000 kick-start matches with encouraging \u201Ca long-term savings habit and asset accumulation by individuals\u201D. Because I do not think what the Government is doing in this bill, and the purpose of the principal Act being amended, match up. KiwiSaver was set up by Dr Cullen in the last Labour Government to do as the purpose says\u2014to encourage long-term savings. Not by people of age but across the range, and, as has been said in this Chamber, many people have taken up that opportunity. The $1,000 kick-start was seen as one of those cherries for people to sign up. But as of 2 p.m. on Thursday, 21 May 2015, as is amended in this bill, Kiwis will no longer be able to do that. One of the Supplementary Order Papers that I have to clause 5 is to amend the bill in its current form\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022180180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022659301738c5b473992ea029952539149\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: We are not on clause 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022322b5f456a334bcaa95458311e672305\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but which will change, obviously, this KiwiSaver Act 2006 to continue to encourage that long-term savings habit that is set out in this piece of legislation. I would ask the Minister in the chair\u2014and I do appreciate that he has taken some calls before\u2014to try to explain to those at home, who might have young children, as to why, before 21 May at 2 p.m., it was a good incentive for them to sign their children up to KiwiSaver with a $1,000 kick-start, but now it is not. Or is this simply a measure to raise revenue to use for other things? Because that is what this seems like, because the principal Act, as it stands, is pretty clear about what the purpose is and what the Government of that day was trying to achieve. That is long-term savings habits. I would think that starting saving from birth until 65 is pretty long-term. But now this Government is taking away the ability for Kiwi families to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EOn my Facebook site over the lunch break people have commented about how it was a really good thing that when we had a child the $1,000 incentive was there to make it an even better incentive to join up to KiwiSaver. But now, under the amendment of the KiwiSaver Act 2006, that is no longer there. I want to know, from this Government, why it does not think it is a good thing for Kiwi parents to start their kids saving from the very earliest of ages. Because that is essentially what this is doing. Many parents have taken up the opportunity to get their kids started, almost from birth, and this Government is taking that opportunity from them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00226cab07a76c094c03af718d0476a9d354\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cab07a76c094c03af718d0476a9d354\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3ce1bedb9524c16a9c46a7d0c86d980\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I want to hear more from David Clark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231dbb7000cd64add83f563ff92b4b5b9\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I agree with Mr Brownlee. We all want to hear more from Dr David Clark. The really good news for Mr Brownlee is he is going to get numerous opportunities to hear from Dr David Clark over the coming hours in this Chamber. I am sure Gerry Brownlee will hang on every single word that comes from Dr David Clark. I want to speak to clause 3 of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b217d05d6bb04c36b4fcc085bdfdeb3a\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s good because that\u2019s what we\u2019re debating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ef911dc3d71443a9fecb4c2c1a26530\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. That is my first key performance indicator for the day ticked off: I am on the right clause. The reason I want to take a call on clause 3\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223463f2081f224004b649e8398dbf4d13\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Come clean and tell us you know nothing about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd5cd5d4a6324d928d0afc8a432eb6f4\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I see; here we go. Mr Brownlee asked whether I know anything about clause 3. We will read it out slowly for the Leader of the House: \u201CPrincipal Act amended\u2014This Act amends the KiwiSaver Act 2006.\u201D There are four numbers in a row. You will recognise the 2, then two 0s, and a 6. If you put them all together in one, that is 2006. That is in clause 3 of the bill. There will be many thousands of New Zealanders hanging off this debate, watching it on television, and listening to it on the radio, who will be asking why it is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226e194d8f16245d4977e10eca1e0663a\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Wondering why you\u2019re wasting time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a0d0663138d49e78f6e323ce795a839\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Ah! Mr Brownlee says he is wondering why we are wasting time. There is only one person in this Chamber who can explain\u2014and that is Gerry Brownlee\u2014why it is that he is overseeing a piece of legislation coming into this Chamber that retrospectively takes away people\u2019s rights. It retrospectively takes away $1,000, rips it out of their pockets. Gerry Brownlee can explain that. He is the one wasting the time and money of New Zealanders by having us here in this Chamber. So clause 3\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f24e3a439a9042f9816209eb41ccbd7a\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Will Labour undo this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223caf872c73a54c28aca5a5e4c11b7540\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yeah! Oh, yeah! We have been there; we have been there, Gerry, because we believe in savings. We believe that every New Zealander should actually have a right to savings. Every New Zealander should have the ability to put something away for the future\u2014not just Gerry Brownlee\u2019s rich mates but young people and people from low-income backgrounds. They should all have the opportunity, but Gerry Brownlee wants to take that away. He wants to make KiwiSaver only for the people who can walk in on the first day and say: \u201CI can do KiwiSaver off the bat; I know I have got enough money.\u201D It is the people who would not have saved before this incentive came in whom Gerry Brownlee does not want to have in KiwiSaver. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EResponding to those interjections, I want to return to clause 3. There will be people out there watching and listening who are wondering why it is that in each bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220facf2b5e2114615a5be6b91139c871a\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they\u2019re glued to the television!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256338e59b87244e49ac5bac4a0194627\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014they are; they will be glued to this\u2014that comes before the House, the principal Act is named in a clause on its own. It does seem a little unusual to have a clause that simply says: \u201CThis Act amends the KiwiSaver Act 2006.\u201D The reason that clauses like that are put in legislation is that people will look at an amendment bill like this and ask: \u201CWhat are they doing? Why on earth are they putting this measure up?\u201D. It refers people back to the KiwiSaver Act 2006 to enable them to understand what it is that is being amended here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EYou would look at this piece of legislation and you would wonder why on earth someone would introduce legislation to take the incentive away from being part of the scheme. That is what the KiwiSaver Act 2006 is about: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is to encourage a long-term savings habit and asset accumulation by individuals who are not\u201D\u2014here is the one for Mr Brownlee\u2014\u201Cin a position to enjoy standards of living in retirement similar to those in pre-retirement.\u201D It is very important to have clause 3 in the bill because it refers people back to the actual purpose of KiwiSaver. If they were looking at just this amendment bill, they would be confused. They would think: \u201CWell, KiwiSaver is a scheme just for people who can afford to get into it. We do not need to have any incentives for people to get into KiwiSaver.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhen we were sitting in the Budget lock-up, in a sort of airless room downstairs, on Thursday, we read this and we thought: \u201CThis is ridiculous. This is taking away the incentives that are in the KiwiSaver Act 2006.\u201D And then we saw the retrospectivity. Why would you make it retrospective? Why would you do that? You do it because you know that this is a good incentive. It has been made retrospective because if the Government waited before putting this legislation through, thousands of people would sign up to KiwiSaver. Is that not the point? Is that not the very point? The reason the Government is doing this retrospectively is that it knows that this is a good incentive, that it is actually a useful part of the scheme. The bill amends the KiwiSaver Act 2006 in a way that actually, in my opinion, undermines the purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223152d7d6f52a4f13b865e1d5fb4fa9a2\u0022\u003EPaul Foster-Bell\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s in it for Gene Simmons?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1cda441532a4cdab692b4fd6be1fbee\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Paul Foster-Bell, I have to say, would probably look better in Gene Simmons\u2019 make up than he does at the moment. He is clearly a long-term fan of glam rock. We on this side of the Chamber can all see that. Actually, to be honest, I think Paul Foster-Bell is a bit more Gene Pitney than he is Gene Simmons. [Interruption] No, Mr Foster-Bell, if you want to be Richard Simmons, you need to get to the gym a bit more often, OK?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222308f5740ee34c2a99bb6da6716c62f5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that\u2019s unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac96a2fb6f374c2ba95b91077feebe32\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is what he just called me, by the way. Where were we before I was so rudely interrupted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a01ae9baa4024d2880d6a1bc11856106\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Clause 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa0370032d884421841d32e27754cf44\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right\u2014clause 3 of the bill. That is right. As you, Mr Chair, indicate by your hand movements, clause 3 is a very small clause that is about naming the Act that is being amended here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI think it is very important for all members of the Committee to consider again what the purpose of the KiwiSaver Act 2006 is. When KiwiSaver was brought in, National Party members never liked it. They never liked it because it reminded them of an earlier Act that actually created a universal, comprehensive, compulsory superannuation scheme that their former leader Sir Robert Muldoon came along and pulled apart and that would have been worth $200 billion or maybe $500 billion - odd dollars today. That Act from the 1970s could have been what is being amended today, but, no, today it is the 2006 Act that is being amended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis clause allows us to refer back to the purpose of the KiwiSaver Act. I got halfway through that before I was interrupted. The Act aims to increase individuals\u2019 well-being and financial independence, particularly in retirement, and to provide retirement benefits. To that end, the Act provides for the KiwiSaver scheme to facilitate individuals\u2019 savings, principally through the workplace. It is an excellent Act with an excellent purpose being thoroughly undermined by this amendment bill today. It is undermined by taking away the incentive that has made a huge difference to whether or not people sign up to the scheme. Just today\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccde7c4823004be58eec953f33a65540\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Why means test it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa971d7c7d0b4c72941446cc5d36c2df\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Why means test it? Gerry Brownlee wants to means test KiwiSaver, ladies and gentlemen. That is what he wants to do. There is only one political party that has tried means testing of superannuation, and that is the National Party. That was Gerry Brownlee\u2019s party. What did you think of it, Mr Brownlee, when National went for asset testing? What did you think of that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223391b0b6eb4a4e4abd4f424033a27e60\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I am really interested in what Andrew Little wants to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e90aa506e11c4d6da0dfa75cc4b2c9a1\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What do you know? He does not want to answer\u2014he does not want to answer\u2014because it was his party that went down the path of asset testing. It was his party that wanted means testing for superannuation. I stand proudly for a party that has worked hard to give people security and dignity in retirement by introducing the KiwiSaver Act 2006, by starting the Cullen Superannuation Fund, and by keeping superannuation universal. It is members on that side of the Chamber who have got something to answer for when it comes to cutting back\u2014eight cuts to KiwiSaver, asset testing on superannuation, and Sir Robert Muldoon taking away a fund that would have been compulsory superannuation. That is your legacy, Mr Brownlee. That is the legacy you should get up on your feet to try to defend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOn this side of the Chamber we are proud of the KiwiSaver Act 2006. We are proud of the fact that we have given New Zealanders the kind of dignity in retirement that you and your cronies would deny them. That is what this bill is about. This bill is about taking away from ordinary working New Zealanders a little bit of an incentive to get into saving\u2014500,000 New Zealanders. That is what they are budgeting on\u2014500,000 New Zealanders. It is taking away that $1,000 from them. That is the record of a party that does not support dignity in retirement for all New Zealanders, that never liked the KiwiSaver scheme, and that has undermined it from day one of getting into Government. This is just the latest step on that path\u2014amending the KiwiSaver Act 2006 by pulling the rug out from underneath people, taking away the very thing that allows those people from low-income backgrounds to get in. Just today I got an email in my in-box when I got back from Auckland, to tell me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a53493fd9ed4c1ba62b9c03c9cd7e9a\u0022\u003EPaul Foster-Bell\u003C/span\u003E: Just the one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8c1c8cbc1c84ea7b7b5e5406c1f1ce3\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I will explain to you later what emails are, Paul. I got this email from a constituent saying that they had wanted to join KiwiSaver, they were waiting to join KiwiSaver, and they had just got a full-time job that would allow them to do this, but now it has been ripped away by a Government that simply does not care enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u002256dd8122c92e495a972e4380a589e40e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256dd8122c92e495a972e4380a589e40e\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take probably a fairly short call on clause 3 of the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill, the amendment to the principal Act, the KiwiSaver Act 2006.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d94c0ab6e303495aa15f7b79dc0fb49b\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you\u2019ll spin it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022004b1554df2c4df5861d02738e392d50\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: I may not, Mr Brownlee. I may not spin it out. There is a valid point I would like to make in relation to this. This is just about amending the KiwiSaver Act 2006. As has been mentioned earlier, it relates to the purpose of that primary Act, which I also want to refer to. The purpose of the KiwiSaver Act is to encourage a long-term savings habit and asset accumulation by individuals who are not in a position to enjoy standards of living in retirement similar to those in pre-retirement. That is a key point I would like to address. By amending this Act, we need to consider the purpose of the original Act and the role that the $1,000 kick-start incentive plays in achieving that purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe advice that I am looking at from the Inland Revenue Department from 2011, when it was considering the removal of that kick-start programme, was that \u201Cthis could damage KiwiSaver\u2019s attractiveness to new members. There is a strong psychological boost attached with such an early initial increase in a member\u2019s funds and, on balance, the potential damage to public perception and to the initial attractiveness of KiwiSaver outweighs the diminishing value of fiscal savings made by reducing or removing the iconic kick-start payment.\u201D So there we have, just a few years ago, advice directly from the Inland Revenue Department on evaluating the scheme and potential cost-benefit analyses of removing this exact provision of the kick-start contribution. The department is telling us pretty clearly that there is the potential to undermine the entire purpose of the Act. And here we are in Parliament, passing this bill under urgency with no ability for the Inland Revenue Department to inform members of Parliament around whether it has potentially changed its mind since then\u2014give it some benefit, the Government\u2014or not, and there is no ability for the public, either, to contribute to that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI feel compelled as well, to mention the point around ethics in this provision. This is focused on individuals who are not in a position to enjoy standards of living in retirement similar to those in pre-retirement. I do feel compelled to mention, because it has particular value in relation to the kick-start, the increasing number of New Zealanders now for whom superannuation represents a step up rather than a step down, in terms of their incomes. All too many people with disabilities, who are locked out of the employment market or who for reasons of sickness are on a benefit, are living below the poverty line. When they reach the age of retirement, to them, superannuation is just so much more generous than the conditions that they are living in on a daily basis. We have such low poverty in our older population, relative to our younger population\u2014a rate of 3 percent compared with over 20 percent in our children\u2014that we do need to be looking at that issue and we do need to be looking at levels of debt in this country, and savings is a key aspect of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe most recent research that we have available to us shows that the top 10 percent in New Zealand own over 51 percent of the wealth, and the bottom 20 percent of New Zealanders\u2014and, you know, that is a fifth of our population, 20 percent, stating the obvious\u2014have zero or little wealth and are often in negative. They are in debt. This $1,000, this whole purpose of KiwiSaver, is in some part to shift that round. It is actually just to say that as a society we are all better off the more equal we are. It is the role of Government when the market fails, and, actually, I would just say in terms of helping us look after each other, to recognise that we are all in this together. There is a role for Government and that relates to the purpose of this clause, the bill, and the purpose of the KiwiSaver Act 2006. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002200b4604894ac4f23a1152639606b4264\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200b4604894ac4f23a1152639606b4264\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Clause 3 is relating this back to the principal Act, which, of course, is the KiwiSaver Act 2006. In this short call I want to go back to why the KiwiSaver Act was put in place in the first place. These remarks are foreshadowed by the earlier call that I took on clause 2. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThere were always three separate and mutually reinforcing objectives around KiwiSaver. The Government seems to be ignoring two of them. The first one, which is common ground, is that KiwiSaver helps New Zealanders save. In particular it helps those who otherwise would have low savings rates. One of things that Labour abhors is that the removal of the kick-start contribution weakens the incentives, which are particularly important for those who have the least, and, therefore, actually thwarts that objective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe Inland Revenue Department study upon which this piece of legislation has been based is in our view a very narrow and very flawed piece of work, for several reasons. Firstly, it ignores the broader goals, which I will discuss in a second. Secondly, because it talks about leakage from a target group, which is low-income, low-saving New Zealanders, it does not address the fact that there is a broader benefit for all New Zealanders saving. We would say the Government releasing that Inland Revenue Department study on the same day that it put the legislation into the House is really just political cover. We do not think that it has a high level of analytical weight that can be attached to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhat are the other two objectives, beyond helping individual New Zealand families save? The first is actually touched upon briefly in the Government\u2019s Fiscal Strategy Report released this week. On page B.29 it is a goal of the Government to reduce \u201C\u2026 government debt through higher public savings [plus put] New Zealand in a better position to cope with the next economic shock or natural disaster. It helps to raise national savings, maintain credibility with international lenders, reduce finance costs and allow the internationally competitive sectors of the economy to grow.\u201D It goes on to talk about the advantages of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, but, interestingly enough, does not mention KiwiSaver per se. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ESo it is common ground between the two sides of the Chamber that we need to grow New Zealand\u2019s savings. Members opposite are putting all of their eggs in the basket of public saving, reducing the Crown\u2019s debt. The problem with that argument is that it misses the fact that actually only 15 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total debt is public and 85 percent of it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229645ec51cf54417b955d6b06eb27817\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Borrow and spend. Nothing changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4ea9215e6f946eba6b108688d1be20d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: These are facts. Listen to the facts. Eighty-five percent of it is private debt. If we are going to turn New Zealand round, if we are going to become more financially self-sufficient, this is the reason that the KiwiSaver Act 2006 was set up. Clause 3 hooks this amendment to that Act so it is entirely within scope, I think, to reprise the objectives of that Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe key thing is to recognise that growing New Zealand\u2019s total savings position must be driven off private savings, and we must, therefore, have an effective KiwiSaver scheme as well as an effective New Zealand Superannuation Fund. If we do that, we move to the third argument, which is that we affect a whole lot of macroeconomic variables in a really positive way. What are they and why do they matter? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EOur savings deficit, our gap between what we earn and what we spend, by mathematical certainty is going to be the same as the difference in our current account between what we import and what we export in terms of capital. So our savings deficit will in the long run equal our current account deficit. New Zealand\u2019s problem is that we do not pay our way in the world. That is just a fact, and that is something that both sides of the House have been grappling with. In order to do that, the purpose for which the 2006 Act was set up was to grow our savings position. KiwiSaver is one of the most important tools in the public tool box to do that. Without it we would be sunk. We must keep it strong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EAt the last election there was a competition between the policies of the two major parties in terms of how to grow New Zealand\u2019s savings rate. I think it was the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research, Business and Economic Research Ltd, or both that did some comparative analysis between the two. What they showed was that Labour\u2019s plan was going to grow national savings by about three times or four times the rate of change of National\u2019s. That was before National took the kick-start component out of KiwiSaver. I come back to the point that my colleague Grant Robertson made earlier: this is not the first time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0da7bac65a24239ba648ce7feca4d89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0da7bac65a24239ba648ce7feca4d89\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E It is great to be able to take a call on this part of the bill. It is pretty rich for Labour members to come in here today and spout on about KiwiSaver and the $1,000, when, at the same time, they are telling those exact workers that they are not going to be able to retire at 65, and if they do retire at 65, they are going to lose more than $1,000 in being income tested. It is all right for them to say that it makes people feel good to have $1,000 in their hands when they are 21, but when they are 65, they will still have to be working in the freezing works, on the farms, and doing that hard labour because the Labour Party will not let them retire. That is the reality of what Labour is saying here today. As for that $1,000, Labour is going to borrow that $1,000 to put into the hands of people today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere is a report that came out from the Inland Revenue Department today and it showed that 38 percent of people who have gone into KiwiSaver have never made a contribution\u201438 percent of the people going into KiwiSaver do not put in anything into that programme. What does that show? That shows that the Labour Party is looking after its rich mates\u2014it is looking after its rich mates who can afford to put their kids into KiwiSaver. Labour is looking after those people who actually do not do the work, who are not in KiwiSaver, who are not the people out there doing the hard yards in our country. It is looking after the people who use and abuse the system. Those are Labour people and that is what Labour supports. They are the 38 percent of people who are in KiwiSaver who have only put their money\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2815d589a814ad399723b35e304326e\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: What a bunch of drivel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d88735dc70a14af6a1ed70734990a52d\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It is not dribble; that is the report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4178fda64e2423eade022de4babea11\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Absolute drivel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267c8b9faefcd4293b306df760b44303d\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It is not. Read the report. Go on to the New Zealand Herald website and read the report and you will see, Mr Cunliffe, that 38 percent of the people you are talking about are not the people whom we need to be involved in savings and getting ahead in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIt is really rich for Labour members to come here and attack this bill, when Labour does not even look after the people they are talking about. We are looking after those people. For the first time in 43 years, we went out there and did something for those people. We did not do what the Labour Party is doing now\u2014looking after its rich mates just to buy votes for the next election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd0a347de5c64a62a25546b9318fe77e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd0a347de5c64a62a25546b9318fe77e\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Having listened to that contribution I felt compelled to get to my feet and talk about the KiwiSaver bill. That 38 percent that he was talking about is more than likely to be under-5-year olds\u2014parents who opened up a KiwiSaver account so that they could have a prospect of their child having a nest egg when they get older. [Interruption] Oh, my gosh! Where is he from? And the $1,000 that he is taking away from them is from the future generation and those parents who had a hope that they might have a nest egg. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIn speaking to clause 3 of the bill, it is really important to go back to the principal Act. It is important that we create a generation of savers. In fact, if you go to a number of schools\u2014and many of us will remember the days, or some of us will remember the days when you had the old PostBank deposit book and you took a gold coin\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022148feec877104f91998a8063028c8800\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: My squirrel account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a2c90e621d14d0fb38980a6445afc62\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, your squirrel account. You took your gold coin and you were able to save, and by the time you left primary school you had a few savings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWell, those days are gone. In fact, what we knew when KiwiSaver was initiated was that there was a generation that had not known what saving was all about until KiwiSaver came along. The $1,000 kick-start helped those families who are in the middle and working hard, earning two incomes, and want the prospect of having something for their kids when they turn 18 and can earn and have a little bit of a savings history to be able to continue to save. I think that is a good idea. Do you not? If you were listening to the Government you would have people think that this $1,000 is being taken away from the most vulnerable. The reality is the most vulnerable cannot save. But those hard-working families who do have two incomes and want the prospect of their children having a nest egg when they get older will suffer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EMr Bennett knows, like I know, having visited St Vincent de Paul, that the working poor is becoming more of a prospect in Hamilton than ever before. These are the people who go to St Vincent de Paul and who do have an income. They are working. They still have to go to these services to get a food parcel. He is taking $1,000 away from them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThat is a shame because what we know is that it is more important now than ever before to ensure that people can save for their future, because they cannot rely on universal superannuation. In fact, people do not know from one minute to the next whether or not the Government will actually continue to put money into the superannuation fund. But here is the thing for good New Zealanders who are listening to this debate on a Saturday morning when the Government is putting through under urgency this policy to take away $1,000. What is it saying to working New Zealanders? It is saying that it is going to pull the rug out from under them. The first bit of legislation that it put into the House under urgency was about the child hardship grant, raising the abatement\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228516adc3cb71402ab37aea6ebf2daf4b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! Clause 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247a132dbc37649328cf3be2f51f0d0ea\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014actually takes away from working families, and that is the point of the kick-start payment. Removing the kick-start actually takes away from those families who are working and do want the prospect of being able to save for their children. When Mr Bennett talked about the 38 percent who were not putting anything into KiwiSaver, I thought to myself, what planet is he on? He is certainly not in touch with the real world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIn fact, I have met a number of parents who are delighted with the kick-start payment, who have said that for the first time they can open up an account for their child and then just put a little bit away over time\u2014a little bit at a time. Then by the time their children reach 5, by the time they reach 10, the parents can talk to their child about this little nest egg that is growing. By the time they reach 18 they can say to their child that it is their time. In fact, many parents have said that they are hoping that their child will get a job at 14, just doing little things like selling feijoas on the side of the road, or something like that. But whatever it is, it is about parents trying to teach the next generation that saving for the future is really important. The National Government is taking away the $1,000 contribution from working families who want the hope and the prospect of a nest egg for their children. It is a shame, and it is a shame that the Government is doing it under urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u002288d3f96971b04e2898ac43865e7ac4ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288d3f96971b04e2898ac43865e7ac4ee\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I would just like to speak very briefly about clause 3 as well, which amends the KiwiSaver Act 2006. Specifically, we are arguing the purpose of the original Act. I also want to respond to David Bennett\u2019s wilful misinterpretation of the data. He referred to the 38 percent of people who have not made a contribution since they opened their KiwiSaver account. National calls itself the party of aspiration. The 38 percent of people who have set up an account have done so because they aspire to one day earn enough to put money into the KiwiSaver account. The only reason they have not done so is that they do not earn enough money right now. The $1,000 incentive has got them to open up that account and leave it open until the day that they aspire to earn enough money to put in it. So by taking away the incentive, you are taking away any reason for them to open those accounts at all. So I would expect that you will see the number of accounts go down as a result of this policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI have been asking this question over and over again during the course of this debate and I have not received a single response yet: what do you expect to happen to the rate of take-up of KiwiSaver once you have removed the incentive that 92 percent of people understand is there and available to them? Do you expect it to go up, do you expect it to go down, or do you expect it to stay the same? You have not responded to that question. When you take away the incentives, you are going to be lowering the rate of take-up of the KiwiSaver programme, thereby undermining the purpose of the original Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a86b30688c2e4fbfa550f24abeec00d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a86b30688c2e4fbfa550f24abeec00d4\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E Can I say to the member who has just resumed his seat, James Shaw, before I talk specifically to clause 3, that I think what he asked is a really important question because it does go to the heart of why this legislation is being introduced, what the Government is hoping to achieve, and, obviously, why we are doing it under urgency. I want to address my contribution in relation to clause 3, \u201CPrincipal Act amended\u2014This Act amends the KiwiSaver Act 2006\u201D, to three points. The first point is: what was the purpose of the principal Act? What was the point of the legislation as passed in 2006? The second point is: what is the purpose of the amendment that we are debating? The third point, which again gets to the question that was just raised by my colleague from the Green Party, is: why are we doing this under urgency? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EUnlike others who have referred to the legislation itself, I referred back to the Hansard of the KiwiSaver Bill debate in 2006, and I found two really interesting points that I would like to draw to the attention of the Committee. The first point refers to some comments that Michael Cullen made when he introduced the legislation. He said: \u201CThe KiwiSaver Bill represents a landmark in social and economic legislation. Saving and investing is the foundation of the future wealth of our country and of us as individuals. KiwiSaver adds a new, important element in the savings landscape, providing a vehicle to encourage all working New Zealanders to set aside a portion of their earnings to fund their long-term income security.\u201D That sounds pretty good to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EMr Cullen went on to describe how it was the third in a set of measures that the Government of the time had introduced to restore integrity and security for older New Zealanders. The first measure was to restore the level of superannuation. I heard the Minister Gerry Brownlee crowing this morning about how National had put the level of superannuation up every year for the last 7 years. Well, that is good. It is the law, so I would hope that that is what the Government did, actually. When we were in Government we made it the law because the previous National Government had cut the level of superannuation to a point where older New Zealanders just could not exist on what their level of superannuation was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe second tenet in the principal Act was, obviously, establishing the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, a fund that I know has not received any contribution for years under the National Government. It is another key point in our social and economic security for the future, and there have been no contributions under the National Government. There have been tax cuts for the wealthiest New Zealanders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242f69d6854b74232be7ce08b819c2eb0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Clause 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1b219f59919495187fd18722c01381c\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but nothing for the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. And, obviously, the KiwiSaver scheme as set up by the principal legislation was the third tenet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIf I go to the votes on the primary legislation, the parties that voted for it were the New Zealand Labour Party, New Zealand First, the Green Party, United Future, and Progressive. They all voted for the introduction of KiwiSaver in the principal legislation, which we are discussing under clause 3. The parties that voted against the establishment of a savings scheme that was so vital to our social and economic future were the New Zealand National Party\u2014shock; is everyone shocked to hear that\u2014the M\u0101ori Party, and ACT. Well, that was in 2006. Not a lot has changed since that time except the numbers, unfortunately. So those were the parties that voted for and against it. This legislation, in my view, goes absolutely against the point of the principal Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EOther contributions earlier in this debate have asked that very question: what is the status of an amendment to an Act that actually undermines the primary purpose of the principal Act? In my view, what the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill does is to undermine the fundamental purpose of the principal Act. We call it an amendment in this debate\u2014that is how it is described in clause 3 of the bill\u2014but it takes away the very incentive that was at the heart of changing the savings culture in New Zealand and making it more possible for people to see the value of savings, particularly people for whom saving is very hard. I am not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00229a1af77cd098483683f2591ae9f5a1a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a1af77cd098483683f2591ae9f5a1a1\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022eadab26829c7437b870c5b9a54944d34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eadab26829c7437b870c5b9a54944d34\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to accept the closure motion. We have canvassed the very narrow provisions of this clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ec64f3ba431a41c6bb380128d99bca8a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c901652cdf994a7d86c2ca3f08df91e2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224dcf2e55abef470383e93e64d49f01c4\u0022\u003EClause 4  Section 226 amended (Crown contribution: kick-start contributions)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220689a9ca49f54c0bb86a70b731922ddd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022698beb802fdf4a228a0e9b13a96dc871\u0022\u003EClause 5  Section 226 repealed (Crown contribution: kick-start contributions)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7550c21c0b641af94dde2067f8d1367\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7550c21c0b641af94dde2067f8d1367\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak to clause 5. Labour has moved a number of amendments that I think are well worth considering and would actually be worth having some debate on. The first is in the name of Kris Faafoi and it refers to the ability for the kick-start payment of $1,000 to continue to be accessed by babies, essentially. This is designed to ensure that those with newborns are encouraged to take up this scheme so that a savings fund can be established for the child as they grow up, with the aspiration that out of it they may be able to afford their first house or they may in some way be able to supplement themselves in retirement. However they do it, it kicks off a savings habit, and that, of course, is what the $1,000 was intended to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESo that amendment in the name of Kris Faafoi, a very good amendment, would allow children up to the age of 6 months to be enrolled in the scheme and still be able to access that $1,000 kick-start payment. The second amendment that has been moved is in the name of Jacinda Ardern. It proposes that people who are starting a new job should be allowed to access that $1,000 kick-start payment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThese are all, as you will appreciate, variations on parts of what is being cut. They are preserving different things according to the principal aim of the Act, which is to encourage a savings habit. This amendment in the name of Jacinda Ardern makes it possible for people, when they start a new job, to receive the kick-start payment so they are off to a flying start in their savings regime. It will encourage them not to opt out, because they will see the opportunity there to continue and grow their savings at the time they are thinking about those things\u2014at the time they start a new job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe third amendment that is proposed is in the name of Annette King. It provides an option for people who have been in the same job for the whole time since the KiwiSaver scheme started\u2014since 2006, perhaps, or earlier\u2014and who may well think to themselves, having watched what has happened during the Budget, that this kick-start thing is something that they do not want to pass by. They have been in the same job for a long time and if the Government takes away the right to get that kick-start $1,000 payment for people who are starting a new job, this amendment enables them to say: \u201CWell, actually, now I am going to grab that opportunity. I am going to grab that opportunity, because my retirement savings are important to me.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThese are all measures that are designed in some way to ensure that people can access that $,1,000, so that the half a million people who we are told will miss out in the next 4 years are limited\u2014so there will not be half a million people who will miss out; it will be fewer. These are sensible amendments from Labour and I think they are worthy of consideration, if not lengthy debate. They are certainly worthy of consideration by this Committee, and I think that members opposite should think about voting in support of some of these if they really believe in their heart of hearts that they want to increase savings in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00228021cb4814fb4c45ba25b1ee3a5de5da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228021cb4814fb4c45ba25b1ee3a5de5da\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I just wanted to follow on from David Clark\u2019s contribution. The Green Party is also moving an amendment, Supplementary Order Paper 81, to clause 5 of the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill, which reads: \u201CReplace clause 5 (page 2, lines 22 and 23) with: 5 Section 226 amended (Crown contribution: kick-start contributions)\u2014In section 226(1), replace \u2018is a member, or must become a member as provided by section 15(1)(b) or 36(1)(b),\u2019 with \u2018is a member, or must become a member as provided by section 15(1)(b) or 36(1)(b), and holds a community services card issued pursuant to the Health Entitlement Cards Regulations 1993,\u2019.\u201D The intention here is to retain the $1,000 kick-start for people who hold a community services card. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EIf you look at the original intention of the primary Act, it includes the language that the purpose of the original Act is to support \u201Casset accumulation by individuals who are not in a position to enjoy standards of living and retirement similar to those in pre-retirement.\u201D In other words, what we are trying to do is to say that if the Government is committed to reducing the cost of the overall KiwiSaver programme by cutting the $1,000 kick-start contribution, then, at the very least, the amendment should not undermine the original purpose of the Act, which is to support asset accumulation by individuals who are not in a position to enjoy those standards of living, so the amendment to retain the $1,000 kick-start for people who hold the community services card would enable the original purpose of the Act to continue, to still be fulfilled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe chose the community services cards as the proxy for low income. We realise that there are others\u2014there may be others that have more specificity to them\u2014but part of this is to make it easy to administrate. So, when someone is choosing to open a KiwiSaver, if they are able to present their bank or KiwiSaver provider with a community services card, then that is just very easy to administer as opposed to having to prove their income levels at the date at which they applied for the card, and so on. We do not believe that this would add significant cost to the Crown, because, first, so many people are already in KiwiSaver. There are about 600,000 community services cardholders who are not already superannuitants. Many of those people will already be in KiwiSaver. Of the ones who are not in KiwiSaver, some of them simply will not open an account because they do not believe that they have got the income to do so. But for those people who do, then the incentive would remain in place. As we know, the incentive scheme has worked extremely well, so it would just ensure that those people retain some of that support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EMy colleague Jan Logie earlier referred to an Inland Revenue Department report, which pointed out that 92 percent of the public have recognised the $1,000 kick-start incentive\u2014that they were aware of it and that was a good reason for them to sign up. There are real substantial issues here to do with embedding inequality, because if you are essentially saying to people that KiwiSaver is really, honestly, a preserve of the middle and upper classes, and for people who are on lower incomes it does not really matter and we do not really care about getting them into the programme, then, in fact, not only does that undermine the original intention of the whole KiwiSaver programme to start with, it also further embeds and deepens inequality in this country. When people are in different starting positions and then some of them have got a very attractive KiwiSaver scheme and the rest do not, then by the time they get to retirement age those who are on low incomes will be absolutely destitute whereas the wealth of the middle and upper income people will have grown over the course of their life. So, we think that this Supplementary Order Paper to retain the $1,000 kick-start for community services cardholders is a way\u2014not the only way; but it is a way\u2014of trying to prevent that deepening inequality from happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022f89bd2bf57db4378ab113bf56ce768f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f89bd2bf57db4378ab113bf56ce768f0\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I want to make just a brief contribution and to answer some of the questions the member James Shaw has raised. First of all, there is a certain irony about debating a bill about savings, when the very purpose of the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill is to help get the Government\u2019s books back into the black. And all I hear, consistent with every one of the 7 years we have been the Government, is criticism from the Greens and from Labour as to why we are not spending. I am yet to hear a single member opposite give an idea as to how the Government might save money and get the country into the black. Members on the Government benches firmly support encouraging people to save. The Budget for next year provides for $643 million of Government support for saving. But there is a very important difference. Do we subsidise people opening accounts? Or do we subsidise people to save? There is a difference. What we are saying is that providing Government support for saving is something we support. Just opening a bank account actually does not get us far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow can I specifically respond to the question from James Shaw. James Shaw asked a very pertinent question. He claimed that the number of people in KiwiSaver will decline over the next year. So I checked with the officials. There are currently 2.4 million people in KiwiSaver. Can I make another interesting point. When KiwiSaver was introduced in 2006 Dr Cullen said that \u201CIn the year 2015 we project there will be 700,000 people in KiwiSaver.\u201D In other words, our Government has been successful in better embedding a savings culture, with three times as many people in KiwiSaver, than what even Dr Cullen projected. But here is the rub, and here is the answer for Mr James Shaw. Currently, there are 2.4 million people in KiwiSaver. How many are projected to be in KiwiSaver in 1 year\u2019s time? One hundred thousand people more. One hundred thousand people more, Mr Shaw, will be in KiwiSaver in 1 year\u2019s time, because the Government is providing ongoing subsidies amounting to $521 every year for a person in KiwiSaver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to make one further point because I would love to get an answer from members on the Opposition benches. I use this quote\u2014it is a word for word quote\u2014\u201CIs it right that a person over 65 on a full-time income should get this income supplement? There is a fairness question there. I cannot commit to keeping New Zealand superannuation universal.\u201D That is word for word by Andrew Little. Does David Parker agree with that? Does Annette King agree with that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7c6ff0c21224d73ac437b7b518a2ea0\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. It was my understanding that in the Committee stage of a debate we ask the questions and he answers them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263fc016774a7401cbe1ce36d395358f9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6034fe8243c4913ace76c53637e68d7\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The point of order by Annette King speaks volumes about the embarrassment on the faces of every one of those Labour members. Let me ask the question again. Do they agree with the statement from Mr Andrew Little: \u201CI cannot commit to keeping New Zealand superannuation universal.\u201D? Does Annette King agree with it? Does David Clark agree with it? Does the deputy leader agree with it? Their silence is stunning. The silence is stunning. Can a single Labour member put their hand up if they agree with Andrew Little? Can a single Labour member put their hand up if they agree with Andrew Little? Well, can I come to my members. Is there a single member on National\u2019s side who agrees and supports John Key\u2019s statement? Could they put their hand up? Yes, indeed. You see, that is the difference. We are united. We know what we stand for. What we do not have is a single member of the Labour Party who will support the statement on superannuation from its own leader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022babac246bad44cb4b0abd24f68bba2ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022babac246bad44cb4b0abd24f68bba2ab\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E What an interesting contribution from Nick Smith. It is timely that the Minister mentioned who on that side of the Chamber agrees with John Key. I wonder whether members on that side of the Chamber would agree with John Key when he said the following: \u201CThe second issue that I raise is that if Michael Cullen thinks that 25 percent of New Zealanders will have a serious KiwiSaver account in 5 years\u2019 time, he is deluded,\u201D That was in 2006\u2014in 2006. So hands up how many members on the National side of the Chamber agree with John Key. Come on. There are no hands up. They do not agree with John Key one bit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI have got another option for them. I have got another option. Members on that side of the Chamber either think that Michael Cullen was deluded that there would be 25 percent in KiwiSaver or agree with John Key when he said that Michael Cullen was dreaming about 25 percent. They are the two options. No one is putting their hand up. On that side of the Chamber the guilt and the shame is that by the time the KiwiSaver Act passed in 2006, there was one party left in this House opposing KiwiSaver\u2014one party. Can you guess which one it was? Do you think it was the ACT Party? Was it the ACT Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022211c8f84d7d94dc9957420bc37badff4\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a673e133644c4bd8b7b2f9d4b8731a74\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No. Was it the M\u0101ori Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237a40e78482a461b920388c8c99d5862\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213a15a59c14c458e861ab7b19c3f38cf\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Was it New Zealand First?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298ad08bb78fa405d9e1d5e6332cce691\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c34dbaa574849caa623fdcb2899a427\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Was it the Greens?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5f291840a7f4d39aaec116dfeb5cbc5\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227302743b9ac04c959755bfac652711ac\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It was National. The only party left that was opposing KiwiSaver in 2006 was the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThat is what this is all about\u2014that is what this is all about. The National Party has never liked this scheme, which allows ordinary hard-working New Zealanders to get some extra dignity in retirement. It wanted to keep that only for its mates, who could already afford it, not a scheme that actually gives all hard-working New Zealanders the chance for that little bit extra in retirement. National asks: why not take away the incentive? Why should we not take away the incentive? I say: because the very people for whom that will make the biggest difference are those low-income New Zealanders, those young New Zealanders who find it hard to begin saving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe can come back to John Key, because he had an awful lot to say about the KiwiSaver Act 2006. I will also ask Government members whether they agree with the following statement John Key made about Michael Cullen in 2006 and the KiwiSaver Act: \u201CIf the Minister of Finance had not been so lazy, he could have gone and had a look at what President Bush did.\u201D That is always a good idea, is it not? Go and have a look at what President Bush did. That went well! There are no hands up on the National Party side of the House. They do not support John Key on that one, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EHere is another one. Here is another from John Key. He said: \u201CMichael Cullen knows full well that when there is mortgage diversion\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6cda895fe404367b50cdda58f0c673f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d704b923237434b93b3675808727c5a\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: 2006. Keep up, Dr Smith. 2006. I am sorry Dr Smith does not remember that, because at that exact moment, John Key was trying to take over the leadership of the National Party, and Dr Smith was doing Bill English\u2019s numbers. That is why he does not remember. He was too busy doing Bill English\u2019s numbers. Here is what John Key said: \u201CMichael Cullen knows full well that when there is mortgage diversion,\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e08c484d0de4e2990f66536f5db10ae\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221ac93c63de848e2b28edec03116966b\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u20142006. Keep up, Dr Smith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c7e87f6dffa460f9092d7b0042a0436\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you can\u2019t agree with what your leaders did yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295b8e94e390741da912c5c23c992cfb1\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry that Dr Smith will not remember that because at that exact moment John Key was trying to take over the leadership of the National Party and he was doing Bill English\u2019s numbers. That is why he does not remember. He was too busy doing Bill English\u2019s numbers. So here is what John Key said: \u201CMichael Cullen knows full well that when there is mortgage diversion, a savings account is turned into a chequing account.\u201D Rubbish! National members are not here today saying \u201CLet\u2019s get rid of that.\u201D They are not here today saying \u201CLet\u2019s not have people borrow for their first home.\u201D What they are doing is what they think they can get away with, which is undermining the incentives to be in the scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe reason we are here under urgency, the reason the National Government put this bill in as retrospective legislation, is that this incentive works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThat is why, because it knows if it waited and the bill went through the normal process and there was a proper select committee process, thousands of New Zealanders would sign up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d667daa371a4f3491d20d56c8ae09b5\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Past tense\u2014it worked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe77c58e80424ec694a04fdc53384bf7\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: And just how bad would that be, Chris Bishop, if thousands of New Zealanders got to enjoy being part of a savings culture? He would rather cut them off at the knees. The National Party has always hated KiwiSaver, and this is just another example.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022682e0752288045748c0d2b6288321e3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022682e0752288045748c0d2b6288321e3b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just a moment\u2014I will take a call in a moment. I just want to make the point that the last two speakers, Nick Smith and Grant Robertson, strayed a heck of a long way around the park and have given each other a slap. It was one each way and now we are coming back to a more confined debate, giving leeway for the fact that there is no select committee process and taking into account all of the things that I am sure there would be numerous points of order on if I failed to mention them in my preamble to the next call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00225b6d5822aff7410b82fb9d203d08533c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b6d5822aff7410b82fb9d203d08533c\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to make a few points in relation to the substantive clause of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221beaea6036aa4ed9a92b745e27aa2b42\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, not briefly again!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022487ea7cc068747f9aa7eb353e1cf10ce\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: I missed Mr Brownlee\u2019s comment. I figure that is probably a good thing. I would like to just address Nick Smith\u2019s comments, though. He thought it was ironic that we seem to have so much concern on this side of the Chamber about debt when this was about trying to keep the Government\u2019s books in the black. Well, he may have noticed they are not in the black. They have not been in the black for quite a while\u2014like, ever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a781e9b59e14d8785e5225287ccb376\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: 7 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022927051f4f7864302ae5b7287ad814885\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, gosh, 7 years and you still have not managed it. Sorry Minister, it is salt in the wounds, I imagine. If we are talking about debt, I would like to just point out to the Committee a little bit of a history lesson, and I do think it is very relevant to this piece of legislation and what it is doing. Government debt per capita in 1990 was $10,423. In 2008 it was $2,408, and now, in 2014, under this Government\u2019s watch, it is $13,289. For a Government that is supposedly so concerned about its books and its levels of debt, it has been overseeing a massive increase in the level of Government debt, from a very low level when it came to power of only $2,408 per person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI want to also call out both the main parties in this Chamber, actually, around the trend we have seen with household debt, and with individual debt in this country, which is specifically relevant to this bill. In 1992 the average household debt in this country was $33,920. Now, in 2015, the average household debt is $128,050, and that has been inflation adjusted. We see here a pattern where, in fact, I would argue that Government debt per capita went from, I think, too high levels down to very low levels because it had been transferred to the individual. We are seeing that in the very high levels of personal debt through student loans; increasingly, through speculation in housing; and through the Government\u2019s lack of management of the housing market. There are now unsustainable levels of personal debt. Now we are also seeing, under this Government, escalating Government debt. So both sides of that picture are doing badly. The Government is not focused on getting into surplus. It is not focused on the well-being of our society as a whole. I do want to make a point here around income\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec281b16708741a58059273c9eee964b\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Let the professor have a go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ef731b84f0a429bbda7ced623334df4\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry? Let the professor have a go? Well, we claim our knowledge in different ways in this party. I would like to talk just a little bit about intergenerational inequality in relation to this bill and to reference some common understandings of generational wealth and distribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI am just thinking, again, about the situation we are in in New Zealand and the importance of saving schemes. After so much of the costs of participating in society have been passed on to individuals, there is a common understanding that wealth distribution is strongly affected by life cycle. It makes sense that when you are younger you earn less and you have less wealth. There is an expectation that you will accumulate that over time, as you pay off your student debts, and that you have the ability to earn more and that you get your house and you pay it off. So you get to, over that cycle, increase your wealth. Well, I just want to think about that. That is the traditional way it has been done. The reality now is that the average woman who has a university degree will be 50 before she pays off her student debt, and we have the increasing unlikelihood of young people never being able to buy a house in this country. It is the abandoned generation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd8c94b9813e4316858290a89f7948c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd8c94b9813e4316858290a89f7948c9\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This will be a short speech\u2014[Interruption] Again, I would like to take the opportunity to thank the National backbenchers. Specifically, in relation to clause 5, which amends section 226 (3), New Zealand First has put forward in Supplementary Order Paper 86 the proposal that we replace \u201C$1,000\u201D with \u201C$500\u201D. The reasoning behind that is those Government members and Ministers have stood before this Committee, they have argued against their own logic, and they have told us that they cannot afford it. They cannot afford it, despite the fact that they will not acknowledge that they have taken $7 billion in revenue out of our income stream with tax cuts for the high-income earners. They cannot afford it, despite the fact that they have grown Government debt from next to nothing when they came in to approximately $80 billion today\u2014approximately $80 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EWhat I am asking those members to do is to show New Zealanders some compassion. Government members would not agree that we give some New Zealanders some time. No, we cannot give them time to adjust to these changes\u2014that would be abhorrent! The logic behind their changes, they argue, was that $1,000 is not a cost-effective incentive. They are saying: \u201CLet\u2019s take it away.\u201D But they will not give New Zealanders time to sign up and use it. So they are countering their own argument. New Zealand First has said, well, OK, if $1,000 is too much to contribute to a New Zealander\u2019s start-up into their lifelong saving habits, then show a little bit of compassion. Show a little bit of understanding. Come down off that high horse and halve it\u2014halve it. Make it $500. Give them something. Members on this side of the Chamber spoke about the motivational aspect of this number. It does make a difference. National, please show some compassion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5cd5fe7905a433190aa5da45c2683e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5cd5fe7905a433190aa5da45c2683e5\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I just wanted to respond to the Minister Nick Smith, who I am grateful actually responded to one of my questions. That has been a rare treat during the course of the debate\u2014actually having a response to any of the questions that we have put. I just wanted to check that the Minister said that in a year\u2019s time 100,000 more people will have signed up to KiwiSaver\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fde524466b248cdb6e89a9dcde4ed77\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022615976729db643a9ad056c17634020cc\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014because the member tax credit will be remaining in place. So that incentive still remains within the scheme, which I understand. But the Inland Revenue Department report said that the $1,000 kick-start contribution was the most effective incentive of the package of incentives within the scheme. I just wanted to refer to the regulatory impact statement, which also said that if you were to, for example, halve the member tax credit, then in the next financial year you would save something along the lines of $339 million, whereas removing the kick-start saves $175 million. So just halving the member tax credit would actually save more money than removing the kick-start, and the kick-start, from all the evidence that we have seen so far, is actually the more effective component in terms of getting people into the programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI am just a bit concerned about some of the evidence that we have seen. I recognise that because we are in an urgency process and we are not able to go through the normal standards of scrutiny and hearing from experts, some of the evidence is thin on the ground, but some of the other things that the regulatory impact statement says give me some cause for concern, including page 8. It says that \u201CThe analysis has focussed on fiscal savings from changes to KiwiSaver.\u201D We have heard, many times over, the Government make its case for making fiscal savings for the Crown, as opposed to responding to some of the concerns about the impact on New Zealanders. It goes on to say: \u201CWe have not undertaken a comprehensive analysis of the effects of these policy changes on other policy issues which have been discussed in the context of KiwiSaver changes in the past.\u201D It says in paragraph 52: \u201CWe have not considered the extent to which a reduction in the generosity of the kick start and annual member tax credits will affect the future success (or otherwise) of the HomeStart policy.\u201D In paragraph 55 it says: \u201Cit is highly unlikely that the target effectiveness can be materially improved if the target group remains as defined by the Act.\u201D So, in other words, the principal purpose of the Act is being undermined by this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe get that this will save the Government money. We understand that, and we understand the pressure that the Government is under, and has put itself under, to reduce the deficit and eventually to get the Government books back into the black. We get that, but there are still some real questions about why the Government has chosen the particular mechanism it has in removing the kick-start, rather than other routes that it might have chosen. We have not yet heard a response to the question of why it is that the Government is implementing this immediately, as opposed to over a 6 or 12 or 18-month window to incentivise those who are currently not in the scheme to get into the scheme. We have not yet heard an answer to what the Government\u2019s plan is to increase the savings rate once the incentive to do so is removed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe have not yet heard a response to the ANZ chief economist, who said that removing the incentive will reduce the rate of take-up\u2014that was actually my concern, that the rate of take-up was going to be reduced. If the Government disagrees with the ANZ chief economist, then what is the plan to maintain or increase take-up in the scheme in the future? We have not yet heard a plan for how we handle some of the intergenerational equity issues that my colleague Jan Logie was speaking to. And we have not yet heard a response to why the KiwiSaver is being cut now, but the rest of the hardship package does not kick in until the next financial year\u2014why there is a gap there. So there are still, I am afraid, a number of questions that we do not have answers to, but I do thank the Minister for his substantive response earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 81 in the name of James Shaw to clause 5 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228e3604d54f8e48b78192f89203cca41d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000551\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 86 in the name of Fletcher Tabuteau to clause 5 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022014a3d3603f54eb3be8ac06d21d66b50\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000552\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Jacinda Ardern to clause 5 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000553\u0022\u003EReplace this clause with the following new clause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000554\u0022\u003E5\tSection 226 amended (Crown contribution: kick-start contributions)\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000555\u0022\u003EIn section 226(1), replace \u201Cbefore they reach the New Zealand superannuation qualification age\u201D with \u201Cprovided that person A is a person to whom automatic enrolment rules apply under section 10\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022941277b92b86477d850eb79ce53e1fe8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000556\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Annette King to clause 5 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000557\u0022\u003EReplace this clause with the following new clause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000558\u0022\u003E5\tSection 226 amended (Crown contribution: kick-start contributions)\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000559\u0022\u003EIn section 226(1), replace \u201Cbefore they reach the New Zealand superannuation qualification age\u201D with \u201Cprovided that person A is a person who has been continuously employed by the same business (as defined by section 11(2)) since 2 July 2007\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223ab66d7d7ce84710b0c950319c677c87\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000560\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Kris Faafoi to clause 5 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000561\u0022\u003EReplace this clause with the following new clause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000562\u0022\u003E5\tSection 226 amended (Crown contribution: kick-start contributions)\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000563\u0022\u003EIn section 226(1), replace \u201Cbefore they reach the New Zealand superannuation qualification age\u201D with \u201Cprovided that person A is 6 months of age or younger when they become a member of a KiwiSaver scheme\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f5a979d051244dd097b6fc542ae2cddf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222fcaf7655a9d4a95a49676b451a94eb0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 5 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 5 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022884726b10fed4e4a92fb298a0b3d6e74\u0022\u003ENew clause 5A  Section 226 amended (Crown contribution: eligibility under 6 months of age)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000565\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Kris Faafoi be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000566\u0022\u003EInsert the following clause after clause 4:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000567\u0022\u003E5A\tSection 226 amended (Crown contribution: eligibility under 6 months of age)\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000568\u0022\u003EIn section 226, insert the following subsection before subsection (1A):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000569\u0022\u003E(1)\tThe Crown must pay 1 contribution to the first KiwiSaver scheme of which a person is a member provided that person is 6 months of age or younger when they become a member of a KiwiSaver scheme.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c71fb003fa1f45cdac1fd12e3c3d5c20\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022684e02fef7174cf9bcf53cc066cca8c4\u0022\u003ENew clause 5B\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000571\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Annette King be agreed to:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000572\u0022\u003EInsert the following clause after clause 5A:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000573\u0022\u003E5B\tSection 226 amended (Crown contribution: continuous employment since 2 July 2007)\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000574\u0022\u003EIn section 226, insert the following subsection before subsection (1A):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000575\u0022\u003E(1AA)\tThe Crown must pay 1 contribution to the first KiwiSaver scheme of which a person is a member provided that person has been in continuous employment with the same business (as defined by section 11(2)) since 2 July 2007.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d5d2ad2330e14b2b9c5cbf52cdd001eb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229248683eb7e24a359aae772368e5d622\u0022\u003ENew clause 5C\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000577\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Jacinda Ardern be agreed to:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000578\u0022\u003EInsert the following after clause 5B:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000579\u0022\u003E5C\tSection 226 amended (Crown contribution: automatic enrolment)\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000580\u0022\u003EIn section 226, insert the following subsection before subsection (1A):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000581\u0022\u003E(1AAA)\tThe Crown must pay 1 contribution to the first KiwiSaver scheme of which a person is a member provided that person is a person to whom automatic enrolment rules apply under section 10.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000582\u0022\u003EIn section 226(1), replace \u201Cbefore they reach the New Zealand superannuation qualification age\u201D with \u201Cprovided that person A is a person to whom automatic enrolment rules apply under section 10\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022728ee779b0104e5e893a0f30e3d73e49\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224190a9262dd94cfeb0ff3fa618991eda\u0022\u003EClause 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000584\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendments in the name of the Hon Todd McClay be agreed to:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000585\u0022\u003EIn clause 6, in new section 240, replace the words before new paragraph (a) with:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000586\u0022\u003E\u201CNon-compliance with either financial markets legislation, as defined in section 6(1) of the Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013, or the Fair Trading Act 1986 is ignored if the non-compliance results from the enactment of the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Act 2015 and either the non-compliance does not continue on or after 22 July 2015 or the non-compliance\u2014\u201D; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000587\u0022\u003EIn clause 6, in new section 240(a)(ii), replace \u201CJune\u201D with \u201CJuly\u201D; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000588\u0022\u003EIn clause 6, in new section 240(b)(ii), replace \u201CJune\u201D with \u201CJuly\u201D; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000589\u0022\u003EIn clause 6, in new section 240(c), replace \u201CJune\u201D with \u201CJuly\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c8919ecdda2344fc856ae9ba1f3b3c00\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002255448bb49fc0420387562ea3a3794b4b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 6 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 6 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002279d0a110d96046fe970ecab3470fd832\u0022\u003EClause 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e6d12443a3ce4e249585afe0d3335854\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 7 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 13; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 7 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000591\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000592\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b68de525fa348d187185667a3b62cf2\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002224d7474053514d6aab0721ca0a1f974e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224d7474053514d6aab0721ca0a1f974e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Revenue: I move, That the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill be now read a third time. As KiwiSaver approaches its eighth birthday it is now time to let the scheme be more about people saving for their own retirement and less about Government top-ups. This bill, therefore, proposes to remove the incentive payment of $1,000 paid by the Government to all new enrolees in the scheme, and thereby improve the value for money of the scheme. In short, we want the Government\u2019s support to be not for opening an account, but rather, actually, for people saving. This change took effect at 2 p.m. on the date the Budget was read, on 21 May. People enrolled in the scheme before this will, as a matter of fairness, receive their $1,000 kick-start contribution. There is always that 3-month wait period, and that will still apply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThere have been some pretty ridiculous comments from members opposite that somehow this bill should not have been put through with a Budget measure. That is about as sensible as saying that tax changes or increases in alcohol taxes or other such measures should not take effect. We all know what that would do. It would result in a sudden rush of people simply taking the opportunity of having forward knowledge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d54acab8a6ca4217ae1771cd57d15cb3\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. The argument was this has no effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fed1e6886f846a2bd595c62a39dc716\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The contribution from Dr Clark actually just shows how inadequate he is for Government. If you give people forward notice of rules changing, then people simply take short-term advantage and that is not to anybody\u2019s advantage. I sat in this Parliament through nine Budgets under Labour, where such changes were made and put through as a Budget measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill does not affect other aspects of the scheme, and KiwiSaver members will continue to receive employer contributions and the Government-provided member tax credits of $521 per year. That is, the Government is going to continue to subsidise KiwiSaver schemes to the order of $640 million each year. As always, I am grateful for the efforts of those who have contributed towards the passage of this bill. I want to thank the officials for their work on the policy development. I thank the drafters. This is a bill that is about making choices in a Budget. There is a certain irony that members opposite always want to vote for measures like hardship help for children but they are not prepared to vote for the other changes that make those measures financially sustainable, and that is why it is an important part of the Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe last point I wish to make in this debate is about the most telling part of the debate. In the last 48 hours there have been these very powerful nine words that will ripple shock through my electorate of Nelson, amongst the 700,000 receivers of national superannuation, and I want to conclude with these words\u2014the words of Andrew Little yesterday: \u201CI cannot commit to keeping New Zealand superannuation universal.\u201D Those simple nine words speak volumes about what the members opposite want to do to the security of the retirement arrangements for hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295ceb936bd88475e92f92af437a1e1bb\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: He voted for asset testing. He was there. He voted for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1d9f8fec5624aed97f999bc7c896ad1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I have to say to Mr Robertson that those nine words from Mr Little will guarantee me increased support in my Nelson electorate at the next election. I already have received emails from Grey Power members who are terrified by what those nine words mean, and I just simply say to members opposite that when they are dealing with the issue of superannuation they should state very clearly whether they agree with Mr Little\u2019s statement yesterday: \u201CI cannot commit to keeping New Zealand superannuation universal.\u201D That is an answer I am looking forward to hearing in this third reading debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022b338cb6842f041ec803cd489e7cf7057\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b338cb6842f041ec803cd489e7cf7057\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E There is one member sitting in the House right now who knows all about how it feels to stop superannuation from being universal, and that member is Nick Smith. He was here in the 1990s putting on the surcharge and getting asset testing in place. If there is any member in this House who understands what it means to rip apart universal superannuation, it is Nick Smith. That is also the record of the National Government, in terms of this piece of legislation. Let us not let anyone watching misunderstand that when KiwiSaver went through Parliament in 2006, there were one or two parties that had some concerns about it at the first reading, and the votes were a bit split. The Greens and New Zealand First supported Labour\u2019s bill all the way through. By the time we got to the third reading of the KiwiSaver Bill, one party was left opposing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e45e30a765f45dda212c6faeca4beb6\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Who was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258cccfa12c1a4cfa96f36af635f92790\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The National Party. That was who was left opposing it, and it has consistently undermined the KiwiSaver system\u2014until today, when we come here to debate this commitment from the National Party to take incentives to save away from New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI went to a lot of electorate meetings during the 2014 election campaign. Wellington Central is an electorate where there are plenty of interested people who come out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229401ed4fd5084768a8c40c51919a8d41\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: There are two meetings a night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f17ef9016ab4908b7161eb2ba856608\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that is right\u2014week after week. I think we had about 25 electorate meetings, and I listened intently every night to Paul Foster-Bell, and, occasionally, when he was indisposed, to Chris Bishop. I listened intently. James Shaw was there; he will back me up on this. At not one of those meetings was there a reference to the fact that this would be happening\u2014that KiwiSaver would be undermined and the incentive taken away. Not once was that mentioned in the election campaign. Not once has it been mentioned in the 6 months that have occurred since then. The National Party, in a desperate clawing bid to make next year\u2019s surplus look like it exists, has decided to do this, because this measure today will save the Government $175 million next year. And what is the figure of the surplus? It is $176 million. So there is a $1 million difference. You have heard of the Swedish rounding that happens at the supermarket, when they round up and down. Well, this is the \u201CEnglish rounding\u201D to get you to a surplus\u2014a $1 million surplus, after the $175 million has been counted from this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis is a broken promise. This is a broken promise alongside a series of other broken promises in the Budget\u2014the surplus promise, for example, and the promise that there would be no new taxes, to which we will come very shortly. Apparently, there were to be no new taxes; now we have three\u2014another broken promise. John Key stood up in this House and said that debt would be paid down this year. No, it will not. [Interruption] In fact, the Budget documents tell us, Mr O\u2019Connor, that it will be 2019 before any debt is paid down. Debt will be $93 billion by 2019, as well. That is another broken promise, and this bill is a broken promise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAt this time in the economic cycle, this is the thing that New Zealanders will come to understand. This is as good as it gets\u20143 percent growth this year, down to 2.4 percent by the end of the forecast cycle. Dairy prices are not recovering. There is no sign of a plan to grow exports\u2014they are flat-lining as well. This is as good as it gets, and at the time when it is as good as it gets, what does National do? It takes to KiwiSaver. That is its plan. There is no plan to grow the economy in this Budget. What we have got is a \u201Cpolitical management\u201D Budget rather than a Budget to grow the economy, and if ever there was of a symbol of that, it would be this bill\u2014a bill that takes away from the future. It steals $1,000 from future generations. If there was any looking to the future in this bill, it would be about initiatives to increase savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d55b911eab84e8787e3969e6db65bc2\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, more spending\u2014more spending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229505757f727d4bc4a25c64c08d36ed42\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Here we go. David Bennett says: \u201CMore spending.\u201D This is $1,000 to give people some dignity in retirement. Mr Bennett, have you got KiwiSaver? He is the one member who does not. He is the one member over there who does not have KiwiSaver. The rest of them all took their $1,000. I think Todd Barclay was about 2 years old when the bill went through. He got his $1,000, but they want to deny that to the rest of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAt the very peak of the economic cycle, we have 3 percent growth. In 2006 we had 3 percent growth in New Zealand. We had a surplus of billions and unemployment at under 4 percent. Now, with a growth rate of 3 percent, we have a deficit, and we have unemployment nudging up towards 6 percent. This is as good as it gets. It goes downhill from here, and on the other side of the House, there is no plan to grow the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227d77fe6d29a444a9da8980f922c3b07\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Look at \u201CBenson and Hedges\u201D sitting together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aca335a4b29b4e1b901d516888b71873\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right; a great combination, Mr Hipkins. The thing about KiwiSaver is that it has been an enormous success. In 2008 when National came into Government, it had already worked out, after opposing it in 2006, that it was an enormous success. So National members made the commitment that there would be no major changes. Well, there have been eight. This is the eighth change. This is another broken promise in a series of broken promises. National said that there would be no major changes, and that is because KiwiSaver has been a runaway success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EEvery member of this House will recognise that New Zealand\u2019s savings rate over many generations has been poor. We have not been good savers. One of Michael Cullen\u2019s many significant legacies to this country is that he took the initiative to turn that round, and despite John Key\u2019s standing up in Parliament in 2006 and saying that Michael Cullen was \u201Cdreaming, deluded, and in La-La Land\u201D if he thought that a quarter of New Zealand would have KiwiSaver, it has vastly exceeded expectations. It has vastly exceeded the doomsaying of John Key. That is why KiwiSaver has been successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EHow unfair is it that if you were lucky enough to sign up to KiwiSaver on Wednesday, you got the $1,000 kick-start? Young families that I know of here in Wellington, who have been really excited about signing their kids up just after they are born and getting them involved\u2014if they were lucky enough to do that on Wednesday, great, but if it was Thursday, then the kick-start was gone, even though the legislation has not even passed yet. There were amendments put up by members on this side of the House to say to the National Party that it should at least give people a chance\u2014how about extending it out for a year or even 6 months? That suggestion was turned down. It was turned down because, fundamentally, this $1,000 kick-start has been wildly successful at encouraging people to join the scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is the people who need the kick-start the most\u2014those on low incomes\u2014who will be the most affected by this. The truth is that the choice to become a saver is a difficult one when you are on a low income. We know that saving has got a huge long-term benefit for people. We know that it has got a huge long-term benefit for people, but it is a big challenge when you are on a low income. So the $1,000 kick-start is the thing that makes the difference. Actually, someone told John Key this the day after the Budget. A young woman at a teen parent unit\u2014I saw it on the television\u2014said after she had met John Key that she wanted to get into that scheme, but that she just did not have the money to do it, and the $1,000 has been taken away. That is exactly the person out of whose pocket the National Government is today ripping $1,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe other people are the younger generation. I think it is exciting that when young babies are born, their parents say: \u201CLet\u2019s start the nest egg today.\u201D That is great. That is called building a savings habit. Cameron Bagrie, the chief economist at the ANZ, does not often agree with the Labour Party, but today he has come out and said that the reason why we have got the incentive is to actually start the habit of saving. The problem is that if you get to 18 or 20 and you have not got that account set up with that $1,000, then there will be much less of a chance that you will carry on with it. National members can reflect on, as they sit over there, the fact that those are the two groups that they are taking the opportunity away from today. They are taking $1,000 away from those low-income earners and those younger people. We have had a lot of preaching from that side of the House since their late conversion to wanting to do something about child poverty. Well, here is something you could do: actually give people on low incomes the chance to get that $1,000 and to get that savings habit under way. This bill undermines one of the great retirement savings initiatives of New Zealand, and the National Government should be ashamed of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00220495474ce80343cc8f27827c7947878a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220495474ce80343cc8f27827c7947878a\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E It is outrageous that that member, Grant Robertson, gets up and says these things, when his leader wants to kick people in the guts when it comes to their superannuation. He does not want to give New Zealanders the ability to retire in dignity; he wants to take away their hard-earned retirement savings by taking away their ability to get universal superannuation in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat member said that giving $1,000 to anyone who signs up to a bank account gives them dignity in retirement. The previous speaker, who will speak again, said his reason for having the $1,000 is to make them feel good. That is the economic rationale behind the Labour Party: to give $1,000 to everybody who signs up to an account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe Inland Revenue Department has just put out a report on KiwiSaver. This report says that 38 percent of people who have signed up have never contributed since. Nanaia Mahuta says that is only the young people who have signed up for it. That cannot be the case, because two-thirds of the people who should be in KiwiSaver\u2014low-income New Zealanders who should be saving for their retirement\u2014are not in KiwiSaver. The people who are in KiwiSaver are the middle and high-income earners whom Labour wants to give a thousand bucks to in order to give them dignity in retirement and to make them feel good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat is the Labour Party of old, that is the Labor Party of Australia, and that is the Labour Party that fails and is not good for New Zealanders or for savings going forward. The members are quiet because they know that that is the reality of what is going on. Their petty politics\u2014they come into this room and try to sell to the New Zealand public that Labour is some kind of glorious party that would give them a thousand bucks. Well, every time you give a thousand bucks to every New Zealander who signs up to an account, you take $500 million off our accounts. When you do that, you put New Zealand further into debt. That is the thing that the Labour Party is advocating for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders need sensible economic management. If we are going to spend money in these times, we should spend it on the people who need it, for the first time in 43 years; we do not go out giving handouts to people who are the middle and higher income earners, just to make them feel good and to give them dignity in their retirement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00225940c39590c643cdb4d354f7a1eda829\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225940c39590c643cdb4d354f7a1eda829\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that member who just took his seat, David Bennett, was in a lather, but he has overlooked a large number of relevant points. He really, really has misunderstood this bill. I guess that is what we have come to expect from him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022053ddee3a81241d2b5c68abac544c1d9\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: He hasn\u2019t read it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d4f3970678f48be956c6fb311e03101\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: He may not have read it. He certainly has not read on any behavioural economics, as he just admitted then in his speech. What that member is going to have to face when he goes back to his electorate office are questions from hard-working New Zealanders who are trying to get ahead. The effect of this bill is that over 1,700 people per year\u2014over 1,700 people per year\u2014in his electorate of Hamilton East will miss out on that $1,000 kick-start contribution. I expect a whole lot\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221082558886544fada17b8cd9025e4375\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277264c3e1b06461696e5ecd08aa2820b\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Over 1,700 per year will miss out on the kick-start contribution in his electorate. I expect a few of them will come and ask him some hard questions. They will say: \u201CMr Bennett, how come you and your National MP colleagues have taken this $1,000 and then stopped it for everybody else after you?\u201D. That is what the people in Hamilton will be saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThey will be saying that around the country. They will be saying it in Clutha-Southland. If they can track Todd Barclay down, they will be saying: \u201CTodd Barclay, how come you took that $1,000 kick-starter payment and now you\u2019re shutting it off for 1,700 people from our electorate every year for ever more?\u201D. That is what they will be asking. They will be asking Mark Mitchell in Rodney: \u201CHow come you, Mark Mitchell, took away that $1,000 payment for ever more, even though you took it for yourself?\u201D. In Rodney, 1,700 people per year will miss out, and it will be no different in any other electorate. It will add up to 7,000 people in every electorate in this country over the next 4 years who will miss out on this payment because of this Government\u2019s refusal to tackle the long-term savings problem of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Government is all about getting to some kind of sham surplus today because it has mismanaged the economy so badly\u2014so badly. There is a $1 million\u2014sorry, I wish it was $1 million! There is a $1 billion black hole that has opened up between the last Budget and this Budget. That is the mismanagement of this Government. It is short on vision and has failed to achieve its central election campaign promise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWhat was the Government\u2019s central election campaign promise? Well, do we need any reminding? The Government members said they would bring the books back into surplus this year. They have failed again. For the seventh Budget in a row the National Government has failed to achieve a surplus, despite making that its central campaign promise. This is a Government that is failing on its promises and losing the trust of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders were being promised a wage rise as well. The Government said that their wages would go up by $7,000 over time. In the Budget we heard Bill English kick that can down the road for another 3 years. There is always jam for tomorrow\u2014another broken promise. It reminds us of the promise not to increase GST. John Key said they would not increase GST. After that election, he put it up to 15 percent. New Zealanders are counting the broken promises from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EHere is another broken promise: we will increase exports to 40 percent of GDP. Well, they are down below 30 percent now and dropping, and projected to drop further next year. The Government members are not getting this economy back on the right foot. They are mismanaging the economy and they are taking from the pockets of children\u2014taking from the pockets of children\u2014to pay for their economic mistakes today. They are robbing the future of the children to pay for their economic mistakes today. This is a Government that is out of ideas. It is out of touch. Those members might as well resign, actually, and give us an election sooner, because they have no new ideas. They are failing to deliver on their promises. This measure is reducing savings at a time when we actually need an increase in savings. This is a time when we need long-term thinking, not the \u201Cshort-termism\u201D that this Government is putting forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Government has failed to support the regions. It has failed to diversify the economy. It has failed to address the Auckland housing bubble. It has failed to develop the skills of New Zealand workers. And it is failing our economy more and more over time. This is a Government out of ideas, and this is its big idea in this Budget: a new tax. Let us not forget that National campaigned on no new taxes, and we have got three in this Budget alone. This is a Government that is so, so out of touch that it thinks it can break those promises and arrogantly carry on, and then pass this legislation under urgency, not allowing New Zealanders to have a say on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe heard the Financial Services Council come out today and say that this bill is like robbing the kids\u2019 piggy bank to go down to the pub for a beer\u2014robbing the kids\u2019 piggy bank to go down to the pub for a beer. That is the kind of vision we have from this Government. Why will it not stand up and be counted? New Zealand is suffering as a consequence. This Budget is the seventh deficit in a row after nine surpluses from the Labour Government. This is economic mismanagement like we have never seen before. Those members should hang their heads in shame, and they are, and rightly so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022271b579b2bb044bbb548c13709f7c970\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022271b579b2bb044bbb548c13709f7c970\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E During the course of the debate over the last couple of days, some very, very silly things have been said by Labour members and members opposite. We had Andrew Little\u2019s comment about how he cannot commit to keeping New Zealand superannuation universal. We have had Grant Robertson\u2019s commitment to bring back the $1,000 kick-start. But the one that takes the cake is the comment made by the member who just spoke, which was that the Government should resign and we should have an early election. Really? I mean, come on! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAfter the worst Budget debate speech, probably since Parliament started sitting in New Zealand, ladies and gentlemen\u2014after the worst Budget debate speech, and a party in total disarray, with David Cunliffe, David Parker, and Grant Robertson doing the numbers\u2014do these guys opposite really want an early election? And after a Budget that raises benefit levels for the working poor and the poor in our society for the first time in 43 years\u2014do these guys really want an early election? I do not think so. So that is going to take the cake in terms of silly things said by members opposite. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt has been a very strange debate in the Parliament, because what you have in the course of the debate on this KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill is the Labour Party arguing for a form of middle-class welfare and arguing against a Budget that helps the most vulnerable in our society. It is some sort of weird parallel universe, and what does it say about their priorities? What does it say about the sense of priority of the Labour members opposite, when they are willing to defend something that is, sure, nice to have, but not necessary? And they argue against a Budget that delivers support and help for those who most need it. It is a very good Budget, which I and members on this side of the House are proud to support. It is a strange day in Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EMr Clark keeps asserting that this Government is mismanaging the economy. Well, actually, something interesting happened in the month of April 2015. April 2015 marks the first month since April 1991 that more people have moved from Australia to New Zealand than the other way. So there are a hundred people, a net gain in migrants, who have come from Australia to New Zealand. And why is that? Members opposite will say the Australian economy is not doing so well; that is true, relative to us. But it also highlights the importance of having a strong and fast-growing economy, and that is what we have. So nothing could be further from the truth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThis bill is another bill put forward by the Government in order to continue to strengthen the New Zealand economy and, as part of a suite of measures, as part of the Budget, to continue the New Zealand economy growing strongly. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00224cc35159905b4404bee0fcb2099ae73b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cc35159905b4404bee0fcb2099ae73b\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the Green Party on this third reading of the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill. I am an Opposition member of Parliament, but I do not like being oppositional for the sake of it. I do not believe in tribalism. But as a member of the Opposition, I do believe that my role is to challenge the Government and to hold it to account. So during the course of this debate\u2014I have actually tried to treat this as an actual debate, where we actually try to find out what the Government is thinking\u2014I have asked a number of questions, in, I think, a fairly reasonable tone, and I think that they are fairly reasonable questions. I do want to acknowledge that some of those questions have been responded to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI would like to start by just responding to some of those questions. One of the questions that I asked was why would you cut the kick-start for KiwiSaver now, rather than cut the member tax credit or reduce the member tax credit, when that would both save more money and keep in place the incentive that most people actually recognise. Nick Smith did respond to that. He said that we are doing it now because we want to incentivise people not just for opening an account but for actual savings, which is a pretty reasonable response. I understand that. But if people are responding to opening an account because of the $1,000 kick-start, then what you can predict is that fewer people are actually going to be opening an account in the future. What we know is that there are a lot of people\u2014aspirational people\u2014who are not earning a great deal now but who hope to earn more in the future who have opened accounts because of the kick-start programme. The accounts may be dormant at the moment, but these are people who want to earn more in the future and can see a pathway so that when they do they will have at least a little bit put away to start with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe second question that I asked was whether the Government considered leaving the kick-start in place for a period of time\u2014say 6, 12, or 18 months\u2014to enable people who are not currently enrolled to have the opportunity to enrol, or to enable people who are partially through the process of enrolling to have a chance to actually complete their enrolment. Again, Minister Smith said we did not want a rush to take advantage of the programme. If we did not want people to take advantage of the programme, we would not have set it up in the first place. That is the whole point of the incentive scheme\u2014to get people to take advantage of the programme. So, to me, that argument holds no weight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ERelated to that, why cut the KiwiSaver now but delay the rest of the Budget hardship package? In other words, why take this away now and give people that gap, where they are screwed from both ends? Somebody referred to this as middle-class welfare. But can I just say that that question was not answered by any speaker from the Government side at any point during this debate. That leads me to the other five questions that remain unanswered. As I said, I think I have tried to ask pretty reasonable questions, in the spirit of holding the Government to account, and at the very least finding out what it is thinking. During the course of the debate no one\u2014no one\u2014has even attempted to try to respond to these questions, so I will ask them again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is 22nd out of 24 OECD countries for savings. Cutting the KiwiSaver incentive reduces the savings rate. What is the Government\u2019s plan to increase savings? There is no plan. There does not seem to be a plan. We have not heard one yet. My next question is that the ANZ chief economist says that removing the KiwiSaver incentive will reduce the rate of take-up. What is the plan to maintain or increase the rate of take-up in KiwiSaver? I have not heard an answer to that question. There is no plan. Next question: how does reducing the KiwiSaver take-up rate impact intergenerational equity issues relating to today\u2019s working parents essentially paying for three generations\u2019 worth of costs? How does it deal with the change in the dependency ratio from 7:1 today to 2:1 in 30 years\u2019 time? No one has responded to that question. Next question: the Government is reducing the short-term deficit by raiding New Zealand\u2019s retirement scheme again. What is the plan for long-term\u2014long-term\u2014financial sustainability? Nobody has responded to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E I know that it is a Saturday and we are under urgency, and not all that many people watch Parliament TV. There have been a few people in the gallery\u2014thank you for coming and watching. But it seems extraordinary to me that we could pass a piece of legislation of this much importance to this many New Zealanders about the long-term financial viability of the country and its residents and receive no answers to any of those questions. The Government is being completely unaccountable in passing this legislation. It is lazy to not be responding to these questions. It is arrogant to be relying on your numbers rather than attempting to respond to these questions. Like I said before, I think that these are reasonable questions, I have tried to ask them in a reasonable way, and I think I have asked most of them about four or five times, just in case anybody wanted to actually respond to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThere are only a couple of pieces of evidence\u2014of actual evidence\u2014that we have seen in the House today in relation to the bill. One is the regulatory impact statement. But in the regulatory impact statement it says in three or four different places that they did not consider any of the impacts of this legislation beyond the financial impact on the Government\u2019s books. In other words, we have no idea what this is going to do to New Zealand\u2019s savings, to the New Zealand population, or anything other than the impact on the Government\u2019s books. We have no idea what the impact is. The other piece of information that we have got is a 2011 report from Inland Revenue, which said that to remove the incentive would gut the programme. So we have seen no positive arguments other than to get the Government\u2019s books back into black\u2014an admirable objective, and I am fine with that notion, but other than that we have seen no evidence relating to anything else in terms of the impact of this scheme. The only evidence we have seen is that it will have a negative impact. For all those reasons, the Green Party cannot support this legislation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022131db682be7b47359b14605f175e86bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022131db682be7b47359b14605f175e86bc\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E As a new member this term, I cannot believe the audacity of this Government and its members. I just do not know what is left for this Government to do to meaningfully address our growing trade deficit, for example. It is a Government of members who stand in front of the people of this country and tell us how important growing our export businesses are, but then it will not stand up in front of the people of this country and tell them that real export figures are going backwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI just do not know what is left for this Government to do that is meaningful to address the Government\u2019s own growing debt. It is spiralling out of control. The Government tells us it is fiscally responsible and it has admonished this side of the House for being apparently irresponsible itself. But in its own books\u2014its own books, which it obviously does not open very often\u2014its debt continues to spiral out of control. Those members dare not stand there and tell New Zealanders that our debt is $19,000, or nearly $20,000, per person\u2014they cannot stand there and tell us that that is fiscally sound. Even in the time of Muldoon\u2019s Think Big projects, the per-person debt was half of that. These masters of fiscal management have overseen a growth in debt from next to nothing to $80 billion. They should not accuse this side of the House of distorting the truth. Someone is going to have to deal with this unsustainable debt, and it will not be that Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EBusiness commentators have already described this Budget as piecemeal and reactive. If there is a plan behind this Budget, if there is foresight and meaningful consideration given to the future of this country, then the Prime Minister and his team have hidden that vision so incredibly well. Commentators went on to say that this Budget will do nothing to unite the business sector\u2014that is, the National Government\u2019s Budget has nothing to unite the business sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ERegarding the KiwiSaver legislation itself, the National Government has just shown us how callous it is. The logic that it uses is that the $1,000 contribution is too costly an incentive. It is ignoring the tax that it took off its rich mates some time ago. It is ignoring the money that it may have saved from its welfare cuts in the 1990s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First asked, as a formal process in this House, for the Government to hold off\u2014do not pass this bill; do not make it a retrospective piece of legislation. If the $1,000 contribution has no effect, which is the argument behind this bill, then why the urgency? Why not give our children a chance? Even the meanest estimate from the Government in the last couple of days, during which it has tried to convince New Zealanders that they will be giving only that up, is $25,000 per person at retirement. A more reasonable estimate\u2014and I speak to the Minister who questioned my numbers; I did adjust for tax and I did use reasonable numbers\u2014is that the lost income for our retirees is between $117,000 and $145,000 per person at retirement, based solely on the $1,000 contribution alone. That is just an unbelievable loss to our future generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EWith at least 500,000 New Zealanders\u2014but many would argue it could be 1 million New Zealanders\u2014still to sign up, the multiplication is basic. I will leave it for the backbench members over there to do the maths themselves, but New Zealand First asked this Government to consider halving the kick-start contribution to $500 dollars. The $500 seemed like a compromise. The savings, even at $1,000, are so minuscule as to be redundant\u2014they truly are. But $500 we asked for. Let us be reasonable. Do not take it away so that many of our children now are missing out because of the miserly and ill-conceived processes of this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe debate has been far-reaching and, I think, quite in-depth, and we have spoken about the fairness. From one morning to one afternoon we now have a disparity in entitlement between a child who applied in the morning of the day of the Budget and a child who applied in the evening. It just does not make sense. There was no warning. There is no fairness. It is simply a retrospective piece of legislation, and I think we all know\u2014I think we have all seen\u2014that that retrospective legislation is bad, basically. It often does more harm than the good that we think it will do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI did not speak about it myself, but I will take this opportunity now to speak of certainty\u2014certainty for New Zealanders in their savings. That is a key element of any successful savings fund. The New Zealanders who wish to use it must have certainty, but to cut away at it eight times continually over the years\u2014whether you like it or not, certainty is so important in order for New Zealanders to have faith in a savings scheme that they can believe in, that they can use, and that will supplement their retirement income into the future. This Government has taken that certainty away in so many ways with this Budget, with this bill being just another example of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI ask this Government not to be so miserly\u2014let us not take it all away; let us give New Zealanders some time\u2014but, no. I do not think that at any stage in this debate there was any real engagement. Certainly no one was listening, as no one on that side of the House seems to be listening now. It is a presumed outcome. Those members are being lazy, they are not engaging, and they are using their majority to simply pass poor legislation through under urgency, with no engagement and no discussion with the people of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ENo one on that side of the House has listened to logic. No one has listened to reasonable requests based on compassion. New Zealand First cannot support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022532e1be461e143ff8e994a5c7896c8f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022532e1be461e143ff8e994a5c7896c8f5\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is an absolute pleasure to rise in support of this bill in its third reading. A speaker on our side remarked earlier on today that it was almost like a parallel universe. What we see with this magnificent Budget introduced by this National-led Government is that this National-led Government is supporting those in most need, with the first increases to real benefits in 43 years\u201443 years. In that time there have been two Labour administrations, neither of which did the same thing. In terms of this this bill, what Labour is doing instead is advocating for middle-class welfare. So we have National supporting those most in need by doing something real, and Labour seeking to hand out money to people who, by and large, do not need it. That is a wonderful, wonderful thing to see, and I commend our leadership for its vision. I am fully supportive of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EI just wanted to respond to a couple of things that the Greens speaker Mr Shaw had to say. He basically said that the primary incentive for people to be in KiwiSaver is the $1,000 the Government is giving. He basically said that people join KiwiSaver for that reason alone. That is not saving; it is simply Government expenditure. What we are doing is saying that instead of spending it that way, we will reprioritise it to those who need it most. That is helping the people who are in the most need. That is making the best, positive difference to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EMr Shaw asked what was going to incentivise saving. Well, that is easy. It is called growing the economy and creating more jobs and higher paying jobs, and what we have been seeing over the term of this Government is average wages rising faster than inflation. So if you want to help people to save, Mr Shaw, get in behind our Business Growth Agenda. That way you will do something that is positive and will work. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00220d31d7341ce94f788a572296c207d93e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d31d7341ce94f788a572296c207d93e\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Just to respond to the point about growing the economy and that being the way to increase savings, I would like to draw the member Brett Hudson\u2019s attention to this little graph from the Parliamentary Library. [Interruption] Oh, facts! We have facts in the debate\u2014goodness! It shows that in the 1980s, household savings were just around $700 per household in New Zealand. Then, after this Government\u2019s reforms in the 1990s, they went down to a point of almost negative $1,500, I think, while you were so busy in your paradigm, growing the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThen we just managed to get above zero again after the introduction of KiwiSaver. Although I have some issues with some of the impact of KiwiSaver on inequality, the fact that it has improved average household savings is irrefutable. We have evidence from the Inland Revenue Department that tells us that the highly successful recognition for KiwiSaver is the $1,000 kick-start payment\u201492 percent recognition. It is the most successful part of the programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe projected increase in KiwiSaver membership is approximately 300,000 over the next 4 years. There would be fiscal savings to be made from cutting that kick-start; however, quoting the Inland Revenue Department from its 2011 regulatory impact statement: \u201Cthis could damage KiwiSaver\u2019s attractiveness to new members. There is a strong psychological boost attached with such an early initial increase in a member\u2019s funds, and, on balance, the potential damage to public perception and to the initial attractiveness of KiwiSaver outweighs the diminishing value of fiscal savings made by reducing or removing the iconic kick-start payment.\u201D That is the advice. But, of course, we do not have the advice being presented. And the members on that side of the House do not have the advice, because the regulatory impact statement did not ask those questions. The officials were not given the opportunity to provide that advice to the Government, because this legislation happened at the last minute to try to get closer to that ever-elusive surplus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe only questions that were actually asked, and the only advice given to this House on the impacts of this bill, were on what it would do to the Government\u2019s bottom line, because, actually, it just cares about the public relations exercise. That is what this is about. This is not about the current account deficit. This is not about the distribution of wealth in this country. This is not even about people\u2019s savings or anything to do with our society and the well-being of people. This is a public relations exercise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI want to remind the members on that side of the House that if an economy is not working for everyone, it is not working. What you are putting at risk is something that has helped get our households back\u2014some of them, at least\u2014into savings. This country has a massive issue with income inequality. You say that you care about that and that is why you are increasing benefit rates, and that is well, well overdue. But this country also has a very significant problem with wealth inequality. The top 1 percent in this country own 51.8 percent of the net wealth\u2014that is as of the last time we had those figures. The bottom 20 percent have zero or little wealth, and many of them are in debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThat is partially why this $1,000 contribution is so critically important. It is not peripheral. This is not about the middle class, because that $1,000 contribution was the one thing that everyone could get, even if they were on a low income and unable to contribute from out of their wages to the scheme because they wanted to ensure that their children could eat. I understand that you want to feed your kids before you put money in the savings for your retirement. I totally understand that. That is what this $1,000 represents. This legislation is the ripping away of that. That is not about a redistribution of wealth or consideration for the well-being of our society, as was suggested from that side of the House. It is the exact opposite. I really do take objection to the way that this has just been pushed through under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229b6d30e0a5c54b15b367548738e1561b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b6d30e0a5c54b15b367548738e1561b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the member. I omitted to give her a warning bell, but her time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002224519756863b4fc7bdf377cc7e69855a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224519756863b4fc7bdf377cc7e69855a\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E It is a very sad day for Parliament to be passing legislation that puts us back in terms of changing the social and financial security of older New Zealanders in the future\u2014people who are just children or young people now. It has been a really bad day for the Government, actually. It started off particularly badly when Todd McClay, when reading his speech notes for the second reading, said that he was speaking on behalf of the Minister of Finance. This legislation is so rushed that the Hon Todd McClay did not even know it was in his name. I think that is a first for this Parliament. It kept going downhill after that. The Hon Gerry Brownlee suddenly had a rush of blood to the head, and he told David Bennett that he had had a rush of blood to the head and was going to take the next call. David Bennett had a rush of blood to his face. The tension was extraordinary as Gerry Brownlee took David Bennett\u2019s call. They could have been advised to take some of his other calls later in the debate. I think it would have helped the National Party\u2019s credibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIn 2008 John Key made a very serious and consistent promise to the New Zealand public, and that was that there would not be significant changes to the KiwiSaver scheme despite National voting against it when it was originally introduced in 2006. That broken promise is now matched by the other broken promises about no new taxes or delivering a surplus. I do not know how new National Party members feel about going out\u2014I am sure they had every honest intention\u2014when it turns out that they have lied to people. How do they justify that? How do they say: \u201CThat\u2019s OK. I will just go back to my electorate and forget what I said.\u201D? People remember. I think that members of Parliament should have a conscience about what they committed to. If there is some genuine reason for them not being able to deliver a promise or, heaven forbid, breaking it, they must have the courage of their convictions to go back to their constituency, or to the people around where they live if they are a list MP, and explain that to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI do not think that one National backbencher will do that. They are just voting fodder. They are just being used as voting fodder. None of them seems to have had the courage to question or stand up to the people who made the decision. My understanding is that a very small number of Cabinet members made these decisions around this legislation, and that is a very bad place for us to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI just want to conclude by saying that helping the most vulnerable people in our society is a good thing, but it does not ever need to be, and it should not ever be at the cost of young savers just a couple of rungs up the ladder. That is what this KiwiSaver legislation does and that is why I am very proud to have my name on the Noes side and to be voting against this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002209f76bb3f4494aa382d0eb1fafeb54fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209f76bb3f4494aa382d0eb1fafeb54fd\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E I have listened diligently and studiously to all the arguments from the Opposition, and the reality, if you go back to first principles, is that this is a piece of legislation that is really about helping families in need. This is about delivering $790 million of assistance to the people who really need it in New Zealand. That is why I believe that this bill is an appropriate thing to do. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bccb08b3bf2f482ba31f35278bd67f2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bccb08b3bf2f482ba31f35278bd67f2e\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I want to make one final contribution in this debate and one point in my final remarks on that. That is to the members opposite who have talked about the need to target assistance to those most in need. The point that I will make to them is this: the people most likely to be in KiwiSaver now are the people who are on middle and higher incomes. They are the ones who are most likely to have already benefited from the $1,000 kick-start. The people who are now most likely to miss out on the $1,000 kick-start are those on lower incomes who have not already signed in. A child from a middle-class family who has been signed up is going to get a better deal than someone who is on a minimum wage now and wants to sign up tomorrow. That is wrong. That is the unfairness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb3a181726964d30a72ad764adb20f50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb3a181726964d30a72ad764adb20f50\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E The point that Mr Hipkins makes is absolutely right. The beneficiaries, or the winners, of this current policy are the middle and upper-class high-income earners. The people we really want to help are those beneficiaries who are not participating in this scheme. That is why, given a choice, we prefer to dedicate a $790 million package, $25 a week for each family with children on a benefit, rather than just an opportunity to take $1,000 from the taxpayer to put in their bank account to accumulate over a number of years without any contribution of savings at all. That is the choice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EI am pleased to stand and support this bill because it demonstrates that we on this side are fiscally responsible, whereas on the other side they have given no alternative. All other things being equal, where are they going to find that $500 million that we have found? There are only two choices. They either borrow it or they tax. That is what they would have to do. They would have to borrow that $500 million or they would have to increase the taxes of middle New Zealand, and that is why I do not support their proposal. That is why I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220a50ce84fc1f48e4b56d5f7a538727bc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 12; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba695cac8e2d46d2b4fbb35331984df6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba695cac8e2d46d2b4fbb35331984df6\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I request under Standing Order 144 that a personal vote be held. Our reasons in New Zealand First for doing so are twofold: one, this is the most controversial piece of legislation that is being passed under urgency in the House at this time; and secondly, we continue to hear reports of MPs being seen off the premises, who we believe should be here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u00226cde1fe750f7445da005f6549d5eae5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cde1fe750f7445da005f6549d5eae5c\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (Third Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E No. All our members are on site. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d0dce31727f4a46b38f0e42a9a588f9\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: How do we know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d1ecd460c0a4e538bac7dde8daf34ca\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: Because we have evidence of that. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f31e2066f8a14d77bfeafa1324636cbd\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00220368c3158ad34779b533902080476ff4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220368c3158ad34779b533902080476ff4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think we are in danger of getting outside a normal approach, but I will hear from Ron Mark as long as it is relevant. I will warn the member that if there is a question of evidence of members whose votes he knows have been cast being off the premises, the appropriate way of doing that is to raise it with the whip of the party. If there is a question of people\u2019s votes being recorded incorrectly by a whip, then the initial thing that the member should do is to raise that with the whip or the person who is casting the vote. It is just not appropriate to raise it with me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00227615a325286f4f69b1f305d7a707baec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227615a325286f4f69b1f305d7a707baec\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I understand that. I would simply make a request in accordance with Standing Order 144, which states: \u201CA personal vote may be held after a party vote if a member requests one \u2026\u201D, and it goes on, as you know, \u201Cand the Speaker considers that the decision on the party vote is so close\u201D, and the rest is up to you. But it actually says that a personal vote may be held following a party vote if a member requests one. I am so requesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225ad5136161134aebb48bc11a8a82190f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ad5136161134aebb48bc11a8a82190f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I have been around here long enough to remember this coming up, and I may well have been involved in it myself. There is a ruling of Speaker Kidd, which is 69/6 and it reads: \u201CThe fact that the House may, on a party vote, divide rather closely might well be a pattern on every vote throughout a session.\u201D, and I think that obviously there is a possibility of that applying at the moment. \u201CIt is clearly not intended by the Standing Orders that there should be a personal vote more often than not. Closeness on a party vote is not enough, of itself, for a personal vote unless there is something that might make a material difference. This might arise, for example, out of some elements of confusion.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E I would just add to that that I have sat through the majority of the third reading on this bill. I have heard nothing from, for example, a minor party, or any member that has indicated to me that a member\u2019s intention was to vote in any way other than the way the votes have been cast by the whip. As I indicated to the member earlier, if it is his understanding that members are not present who should be present, that is something that should be taken up with the whips, who are the persons responsible for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002269686b871ec249338809a336af958523\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269686b871ec249338809a336af958523\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I fully accept the ruling that you have made and that there will not be a personal vote on this. I wonder whether you might take up with the Speaker, when he is available, and with the other presiding officers, a wider issue, which is that the vote system that we have at the moment certainly relies on a degree of honesty. I keep very clear records, the National Party keeps very clear records, and I am sure all of the parties keep very clear records of who is in the building and who is not. I have also read the Speakers\u2019 rulings and most of those relating to personal votes predate MMP, when votes along party lines were not as common as they are now. In fact they are now the default, and the other way, personal votes, are very rare. I wonder whether this may be something that presiding officers would now like to consider and come back to the House on\u2014whether there are any circumstances under which the House may consider, if you like, an audit of whether in fact parties are voting with the numbers that they should. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EAlthough it is an honesty system and members are all trusted on it, there does need to be, now and then, some check on that. As a whip, I fully accept that from time to time the Government may wish to check that I am doing what I say I am doing, and we may wish to do that. There is actually very limited provision, it would appear, under Speakers\u2019 rulings and the Standing Orders for that to happen at the moment. That may be something that the Speaker and the other presiding officers or perhaps even the Standing Orders Committee may wish to consider given that now we are well into MMP and this is a new issue that has not really ever been tested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022a174eb71c6b7410ab58b1d3a3e2f62c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a174eb71c6b7410ab58b1d3a3e2f62c7\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E With all due respect to Mr Hipkins\u2019 view, we are 20 years into MMP. There has not been a case where a whip has been proven to have misled the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6d3dfacea3d4a7c924e53333e064e8d\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve never tested it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e842dd0a2c34ebea2c6da9306b3595e\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I do not know what happens in the New Zealand First caucus; I have got no idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280acbec44141446f9bfa295b9ed775af\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I just warn the Hon Annette King not to interject again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227adf8d4ad5224db88eaa4a3d1ff2349a\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: What I can tell you is that Standing Order 144 is very specific about the role the Speaker has in determining whether or not there should be a personal vote, and the points advanced by Mr Mark are not called on in the test that you have to apply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022dda3c20766c6413e9e6b6f0b3af6331e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dda3c20766c6413e9e6b6f0b3af6331e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: James Shaw, do you still want to make a comment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022036f2e7dd4c2425ca621359138a6b6c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022036f2e7dd4c2425ca621359138a6b6c5\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, Mr Speaker. You referred to Speaker Kidd\u2019s earlier ruling about some element of confusion. If Mr Mark has been hearing stories that there are MPs off campus and the Government whip is saying that they are not, then that to me seems like an element of confusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0c2f0baefc742dfb0ca46c0ea28b079\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0c2f0baefc742dfb0ca46c0ea28b079\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think I need any more assistance. The rules in the House have been very clear. A whip\u2019s assurances, having been given, are taken for people who are casting votes, and that will continue to be the case. I will tell members that from my personal experience, without naming the particular member, I have myself, on occasions, gone down to a local tavern and hauled out someone who I knew did not have leave. People are very, very careful when casting votes to make sure that they are properly cast. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022496b16f234c54062bd4a62c0287b027f\u0022\u003EBorder Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225c7705ddee4647d78799e868c3833413\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022bddc159275c4494b81a834b57620b2a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bddc159275c4494b81a834b57620b2a5\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill be now read a first time. I move that the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill be introduced to amend the Biosecurity Act 1993 and the Customs and Excise Act 1996 to create an obligation on arriving and departing air and sea passengers, plus crew, to pay a border clearance levy. The levy will fund the costs of border processing incurred by the Ministry for Primary Industries and the New Zealand Customs Service and ensure that border services are sustainable going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EOur border staff work incredibly hard to prevent and stop threats at our border. The success of New Zealand as a trading nation depends on making sure these risks are controlled and managed so our economy can grow and prosper. As our trade and travel links have expanded over recent years, not only have the numbers of travellers entering New Zealand increased but also the diversity of those travellers has grown. Today we have more travellers arriving and departing from more locations than ever before and commercial air and cruise operators are continuing to look at opening up new routes to New Zealand. This is good news for New Zealand but it also brings with it an increased risk at our border. Border clearance activities are driven directly by the volumes of travellers arriving at and departing our shores. This has been steadily increasing, with international passenger numbers rising by 3.5 percent a year, and this trend is set to continue and may even expand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe border clearance levy will help the Ministry for Primary Industries and the Customs Service futureproof border services as it allows the agencies to meet the demand of increasing traveller and also crew numbers. It is obvious that both agencies must be able to manage the growing risk of biosecurity incursions and harm from prohibited goods or persons and be able to put New Zealand on a sustainable platform for the future. We only have to look at recent incursions like the southern saltmarsh mosquito, which cost $77 million to deal with over 12 years, or didymo, which cost $10 million in 2004 and the ongoing costs associated with didymo of around a million dollars a year, and the Queensland fruit fly in Grey Lynn this year, which is likely to cost around $17 million. This is why we have a multilayered biosecurity system that has continued to be strengthened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill makes important amendments to the Customs and Excise Act 1996 and the Biosecurity Act 1993. Amending these Acts means there will be a consistent approach to consultation, implementation, and administration of the levy. The Customs and Excise Act did not include a suitable provision to authorise a levy and the Biosecurity Act provides the ability for only a general levy-making provision. The overall effect of the bill is to impose the obligations to pay the levy and to provide that the detailed levy design be set out in levy orders after consultation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe detailed design will include, for example, when and how the levy is to be paid, who is responsible for collecting the levy, and the rate of the levy. It is likely that the cost for passengers arriving and departing New Zealand will be around $22 inclusive of GST\u2014around $16 on arrival and up to $6 on departure\u2014but further modelling and consultation with stakeholders and the wider public needs to be completed before the final amount is decided upon. Officials are preparing a discussion document outlining the proposed options, which will be released for public feedback in June this year. It is proposed that the levy will take effect from 1 January 2016 and I expect it will be added to the price of tickets purchased on or after this date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe border clearance levy is just that\u2014a levy. It is a payment by a specific group for a specific purpose\u2014in this case, border clearance functions and activities carried out in relation to the payers of the levy. Levy funds will go into a memorandum account and will be used only to pay for Ministry for Primary Industries and Customs Service border clearance functions. The fundamental principle behind the introduction of the border clearance levy is that it is fairer that the travellers who generate the need for these border clearance services and who benefit from them contribute to the cost of these activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EMany other countries have a passenger levy in place to cover these costs. At $22 the proposed border clearance levy will be set lower than in most other countries. Australia currently charges around NZ$58 and the UK\u2019s long-haul passenger charge is almost around NZ$150. An additional charge of around $22 is unlikely to stop travellers coming to New Zealand. It is less than 1 percent of a long-haul international airfare, which is a very small component of people\u2019s overseas travel costs. Some biosecurity events could have a significant impact on tourism. In the UK during the foot and mouth disease events in 2001 the total tourism revenue dropped by almost \u00A38 billion, which, if you equate that to today\u2019s Kiwi dollars, is around $15 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI am proud to bring this bill into the House because I have always said that biosecurity is my No. 1 priority as Minister. The primary industries are the backbone of the New Zealand economy and we must protect them from unwanted pests and diseases. The primary sector makes up around three-quarters of our merchandise exports. It is worth around $35 billion a year. It is the hard work of our farmers, growers, and fishers that helps us as a Government pay for things like schools, roads, and hospitals. We are fortunate that our isolation has helped protect us but we must always be vigilant and prepared for new and emerging risks. The introduction of this levy and the injection of almost $27 million from Budget 2015 into biosecurity will further strengthen the overall biosecurity system. It will go towards improving import health standards, more detector dogs, and more X-ray machines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAlso, in April this year I announced Biosecurity 2025, a project to refine our biosecurity strategy out for the next 10 years. This will be looking at how we can strengthen the overall biosecurity system to make it resilient in the future from the growing pressures of trade and the increase in tourism numbers, as I have already mentioned. This bill is another important step in protecting our borders and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9eab7cfe1b4410a8178bd2b0855b443\u0022\u003ERino Tirikatene\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] I am pleased to be able to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5326d32fa6a40f4b549facad913caf7\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have not even called the member yet, mainly because I am getting some noise from Mr Bennett yet again. He is on a bit of a warning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce7e0562beed4bd28d9bc8b145c5b407\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce7e0562beed4bd28d9bc8b145c5b407\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to be speaking in the first reading of the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill. Let me state at the outset that Labour is opposing this bill, so be prepared for a long night ahead. We are opposing this bill because border processing is adequately funded from the Crown and there is no need to be imposing a travel tax on the good folks of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ELet us look at this. This is a travel tax that is going to be levied on every traveller, every passenger, families going on their trips, and our important tourists whom we rely on coming into our country. It is a tax that will be put on everybody. For the privilege of leaving our shores folks will be paying an extra $22 for the round trip. The same applies to international visitors, whom we want to welcome into our country. An extra tax is going to be put on them. This is one more tax that is being put on Kiwis, and it is another broken promise\u2014another broken promise from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe have seen time and time again in this Budget the broken promises in terms of the imposition of taxes, and this is yet another one. The Government is taxing Kiwis, ordinary Kiwis, who want to go on their trip overseas. It is taxing them when they go to see their loved ones. It is a broken promise. We may want to argue around the terminology. It is very clear\u2014you might want to call it a border clearance levy but it is still a tax. It is a tax, and even John Key cannot explain the difference. When John Key was asked, he said: \u201COh, google it.\u201D He did not even want to front up. But I tell you what\u2014we did not need to google it. We just went to the Oxford Dictionary. And what does the Oxford Dictionary say? The definition of \u201Clevy\u201D is a tax raised by levying. So whether it is a levy or a tax\u2014\u201Cpotayto\u201D, \u201Cpotahto\u201D; \u201Ctomayto\u201D, \u201Ctomahto\u201D\u2014they are all the same. They are all the same. Soccer, football\u2014they are both the same. This is yet another broken promise from this Government. The imposition of a tax is a broken promise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ELet us spare a thought for the people in the New Zealand tourism industry, because they are the ones who have been let down by this Government with this measure. They have had a casual Minister of Tourism, who has just flip-flopped along, trying to say: \u201CYes, this is what I\u2019m going to do for our wonderful tourism industry.\u201D And what has he done here? He blindsided it. He blindsided the tourism industry. It had no idea this was coming. The Prime Minister was talking to the industry just a few days ago and it was completely blindsided by this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe irony is that the Prime Minister, the casual Minister of Tourism, has been advocating for, and working with, the industry to try to encourage major markets for our international visitors to bring down or eliminate their travel taxes. Yet now he is going against the work that has been going on in the New Zealand tourism industry in Australia and in the UK. He has done a complete about-face, and he did not even have the courtesy to give a heads-up to the New Zealand tourism industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ELet us not forget that the tourism industry is the second-largest generator of foreign exchange earnings for our country\u2014in excess of $10.4 billion. It brings in a lot, and it knows that when the Prime Minister was asked about this, he said that it will not make a blind bit of difference\u2014not a blind bit of difference. How does he know that? Because just a few years ago he was trying to advocate on behalf of our industry to try to make sure that we can have a freer passage to bring down those travel tax costs for our visitors. So there you go\u2014a flip-flopping, casual Prime Minister. You know, there is a Twitter handle going now. The Prime Minister flip-flops so much he has been called \u201CJandal John\u201D\u2014more flip-flops than Number One Shoes. That is what John Key is: \u201CJandal John\u201D. If you look up that hashtag, you can see all the flip-flops that this Prime Minister has done, and there are plenty of them in this Budget. The tourism industry has been let down. The tourism industry has been incredibly let down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI want to move on and look at what this tax is going to be paying for. Of course, we do want increased border protection bolstering our biosecurity systems. Everyone wants that. We like to see the little beagles at our airports and increased X-ray machinery. We like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022302d72efc62b4e03801d9ece5acb913d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Who should pay for them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022736fa390f31c4aad9002705e14247c63\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: They are already paid for by the Crown. Crown funding has paid for that. And now the Government is passing that on to everyday Kiwis and everyone who wants to go on a flight overseas. If we look behind that, what else will the tax be paying for? I want to mention four letters that you rarely hear about these days out of the Ministry for Primary Industries and the New Zealand Customs Service\u2014JBMS, the Joint Border Management System. Remember that? That was the great merging of the IT platforms between the Ministry for Primary Industries and the Customs Service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225901730c0fea46ffab0c0f9912606861\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: What does it stand for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224f6fdddbcfe44c59e381892a8b554f9\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: Joint Border Management System\u2014the JBMS. What we have seen is a failure of the Ministry for Primary Industries and the Customs Service to deliver on that system. It is 3 years too late and $30 million over budget, and we still probably will not have it by the end of this year, which is the due date. It has been put off, it has been delayed, it has been costly, and it has been shrouded in secrecy. That is right. This Government has been trying to put a veil of secrecy over it because there is a major dispute. There is a major dispute going on with IBM, the contractor. The Government has had crisis talks after crisis talks, trying to work with IBM. A hundred million dollars has been tipped into this project and we still have not seen the delivery of a first tranche or anything. Risk and intelligence\u2014what has been delivered under the Joint Border Management System for risk and intelligence? Nothing. Risk and intelligence are totally lacking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo what will this levy be paying for? What will people be paying this tax for? We need to know what the true cost will be, because what we do not want to see is that this levy is just subsidising the Budget blowout of the Joint Border Management System. That is what this tax will be doing\u2014subsidising the cost blowouts. We know that it is not just a cost recovery. It is not a simple cost recovery exercise, because there is very broad discretion given to the Minister. Sure, there is consultation that has to take place, but at the end of the day it is at the very broad discretion of the Minister to set these levies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EOnce the taxes have been set, there will be no end to what the greed of a Government and a Minister will show in terms of collecting revenue. It is a cash cow. Picking from travellers is an easy cash cow. Rest assured, the Government will be using this to subsidise the big black hole\u2014the $30 million black hole\u2014we already have at the moment with the Joint Border Management System. That is the real scandal of this Government\u2014that the people of New Zealand have invested $100 million into that system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESure, we have got a trade single window and people can import cargoes in terms of the freight industry, but what about the core of that system? The core of that system was to modernise and have sophisticated new tools of risk and intelligence. What happens in that regard? What does the Ministry for Primary Industries and MAF Biosecurity New Zealand pull out of the Joint Border Management System? You never hear about it. It has been taken off the agenda because it is a disaster. It is an absolute disaster, and this is just a cynical attempt by this Government to raise revenue to try to fill the huge black hole that has been created by that failed system. We are not going to be getting out of it. It is going to be getting worse and worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis is a poor piece of legislation. It is another tax. We oppose it, and we will oppose it all the way to midnight. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0e98462b7ff4fc5b6a6adf803830bce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0e98462b7ff4fc5b6a6adf803830bce\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E I support this first reading of the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill, simply because it will amend the Biosecurity Act 1993 and the Customs and Excise Act 1996 and will put in place a border clearance levy for arriving and departing passengers. I would just like to assure the member Rino Tirikatene that this money is only for cost recovery for border services, and the money will be paid into a trust account ring-fenced only for border services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI would also like to point out to the member Rino Tirikatene that the Joint Border Management System is actually progressing very well, that increasing numbers of exporters are using it, that it has been well and truly supported by the industry, and that we have just recently renewed\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a4bb574937f4348bc8e93c8b531f0ea\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise for interrupting the member, but the member\u2014[Interruption] Who was that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e236bd1d86741ad966cc8e3fcbc374e\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207c9fa3f205b451aa47850abb3d80494\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Stand up, and withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2767094dd1d417f91584ce46f0184ae\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227174e5ca906d4458af9f884622401248\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I will now indicate to Rino Tirikatene that he must not wander around the Chamber interjecting. He can interject from his seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8a24182186c415f8cedb4173e0810ad\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER\u003C/span\u003E: I just wanted to draw to the attention of the member Rino Tirikatene that the Joint Border Management System is doing very well, that it is well supported by the export industries, and that we have recently signed a renewed contract with IBM because it is doing an excellent job for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ELet me get back to the levy, though. It is what this bill is all about. The levy will fund the costs of border processing\u2014only border processing\u2014incurred by the Ministry for Primary Industries and the New Zealand Customs Service. It will ensure that border services are sustainable. I think if we reflect that over recent months many of the Opposition members have been talking about increased security at our border, and have been talking about increased biosecurity at our border, I expect that members of the Opposition will be supporting this bill because this will make our border safer. As the Minister for Primary Industries has just said, our success as a trading nation is about making sure that the risks at our borders are controlled and managed so that our economy can grow and prosper. As our travel and trade links expand and travellers entering New Zealand become more numerous and more diverse, with them they bring increased risks. More passengers arriving and departing New Zealand from more locations means more risk\u2014more risk to our security and to our biosecurity. The interesting thing here, of course, is that higher-risk passengers require higher levels of intervention, which increases passenger clearing costs. If we cannot manage that growing risk, the frequency of biosecurity incursions and harm from prohibited goods and persons will increase. New Zealanders do not want that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EDemand for the Ministry for Primary Industries and customs border clearance activities has been steadily increasing over recent years. International passenger numbers have been rising at about 3.5 percent every year, and forecasts are for even more than that. It is an increasing upward trend. What is more, the numbers of people who are coming through our borders are increasingly international people. Whereas in the past large numbers of people coming through were New Zealanders, now just over 40 percent of people coming through our borders are New Zealanders. The vast majority are international passengers. About 95 percent of the travellers cleared at the border are crew and passengers from commercial airlines. About 4 percent are crew and passengers from passenger ships\u2014cruise liners, and they are increasing\u2014and the remaining 1 percent are from private aircrafts, yachts, cargo ships, or the military. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EUp until now, the New Zealand taxpayer has been covering the costs of all these services, even though many of those travellers are not New Zealanders. In fact, as I have just said, significantly more are international travellers, and many of them are coming on luxury cruises and on pleasure trips. It does not seem right to me that every New Zealander\u2014man, woman, and child\u2014is paying $23 whether they cross the border or not. That is a tax, whereas this is a levy that the people requiring the use of the services and the people bringing the risk will be paying. The levy will be funded to maintain existing service levels and the current high level of risk management. Many other countries have a passenger levy. They have got it; it is international best practice now to do that. In our case, ours will be about $20, give or take, and it is really on the low side. What we are seeing is that overseas countries have much more. Australia has A$55, or NZ$58. The UK\u2019s long-haul fee is \u00A371, or about NZ$150, and Canada and the US are similar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThis Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill makes important amendments, as we have said, to the Customs and Excise Act 1996 and the Biosecurity Act 1993. The reason we have to do that is that the Customs and Excise Act does not currently have a suitable provision to authorise a levy, and the Biosecurity Act provides for only general levy-making provision. Amending these Acts will make sure that we get a consistent approach to consultation, implementation, and administration of the levy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224911479f0d824331811de8d352d15d55\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Consultation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f21acbbc77324e8b9f461401a45b4978\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER\u003C/span\u003E: Implementation, and administration of the levy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill also includes provisions that allow Orders in Council to be made for the levy\u2019s administration, including the rate of the levy, the basis on which it is set, and how the levy is to be paid. The levy will take effect on 1 January 2016, and it will be applied to tickets purchased on or after that date. It is proposed that the border clearance levy will be set at different rates for arriving and departing passengers. That reflects the differences in clearance costs because, I remind you, this recovers only the clearing costs and what happens at the border. So this will reflect the differences in clearing costs between people arriving and people departing. The total costs for passengers arriving and departing will be about $20, inclusive of GST\u2014about $16 on arrival and up to about $6 on departure\u2014but this will be teased out during the consultation phase. The cost of processing arriving passengers is higher because there is no biosecurity screening at departure and the level of customs resources and intervention at departure is less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EStakeholders and the general public will get a chance to have their say about this levy, about its design, and about its implementation, and the details will be consulted on. Officials are already preparing a discussion document that will outline proposed options, and that will be released for public feedback in June. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe intention is to make the border clearance levy simple and easy to collect. It is proposed that the existing payment systems are used to collect the levy. The airlines will make a monthly, lump-sum payment to the Civil Aviation Authority, and cruise ship operators will pay the Customs Service. The funds will then be allocated to the Customs Service by the Ministry for Primary Industries. For other travellers, such as people on private yachts and airlines, the levy will be collected from them directly as they enter and depart New Zealand. The border clearance levy is less than 1 percent of the international airfare, so it is a very small component of people\u2019s overall travel costs. The additional charge of about $20 is very unlikely to have any bearing on the traveller\u2019s choice of destination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe people of New Zealand told us that they want a safe and secure border. This bill will protect New Zealanders and will protect our environment. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022f558453158434f4da714c2280e7c63df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f558453158434f4da714c2280e7c63df\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This debate is about the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill. The first question I would ask this House is: when is a levy a tax? When is a tax a levy? And when is a tax not a tax? Well, we found out today that we know when it is and when it is not: it is when the Prime Minister says so. That is when it is a tax and when it is a levy. [Interruption] For the member opposite sitting at the back who immediately interjected, a tax is raised by a levy. This is a levy and it goes to a tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThis is a tax. Make no bones about it\u2014this is a tax. For the listening public and the people in the gallery, tonight, here, late in the day on this Saturday afternoon, this Government is forcing through under urgency a new tax on New Zealanders. This debate is all about a brand new tax\u2014never mentioned, never canvassed. I have to say, the old saying of \u201CNo taxation without some representation\u201D\u2014no representations were made to the Government to bring in this new tax. It is just a very sneaky little manoeuvre passed under urgency. That is why we will oppose it. We will oppose it because it was not a tax that was ever canvassed with the public of New Zealand. Did the National Party go to the electorate and say: \u201CWe are going to raise a new tax. We are going to put it on travellers arriving and departing\u2014on New Zealanders and on foreigners.\u201D? No, it did not. This is a very sneaky, sneaky little tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI have to say I am particularly disappointed in the Minister of Tourism, who happens to be the Prime Minister, because he was at a tourism conference 2 or 3 days ago. Did he mention that he was going to bring in a tax on their industry? Their Minister\u2014their own Minister\u2014goes and speaks at a conference. \u201CJokey John\u201D was there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf70ad2cefa84cd28cfa984ba635dbb5\u0022\u003EKelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CJandal John\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227184ee7b95c74314858761ee281324a3\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: It was \u201CJandal John\u201D. He was there. He was there with the jokes and the smiles and the laugh. Did he tell them that he was going to bring in a sneaky little tax and pass it under urgency on a Saturday afternoon? No, he did not. He did not raise it, and he never gave any\u2014any\u2014indication at all to a very, very important constituency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe Nats want this debate out of the way as fast as possible because they know\u2014they know. They came to us, and they wanted us to agree with it and to get it out of the way as fast as possible, for one reason: they are embarrassed. They are embarrassed because they are bringing in a new tax, and it is being brought in by a Prime Minister who can perform gymnastics with the truth. He can do the double backflips on anything he likes, and we have got plenty of examples. \u201CNo new taxes.\u201D, he said, so he raised GST. \u201CNo new taxes.\u201D, so here tonight at 10 past 5 he sneaks in a border tax on New Zealanders and on foreigners. He breaks his promises like he breaks his eggs into the pan in the morning. He could not even deliver on the promise to give New Zealand a panda. That is how many promises he breaks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EYesterday, Mr Key was asked what the difference was between a tax and a levy. When asked the difference between a tax and a levy, the Prime Minister\u2019s answer was: \u201CMany\u201D. When he was asked again, he said: \u201CGoogle it.\u201D Then, when asked a third time, he said that he could answer it: \u201C\u2026 but I\u2019m not going to bother.\u201D \u201CI\u2019m not going to bother.\u201D, and that is a quote. The Prime Minister could not bother to tell New Zealanders what this was all about, whether it was a tax or a levy, or why we were having it. He just could not be bothered. I have to say that, having claimed that many times\u2014like one of those biblical characters who did it three times\u2014he said it was for biosecurity. He finally said it was for\u2014[Interruption] That was Judas, if you wanted to know. The Prime Minister said it was for biosecurity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWell, let us look at the Government\u2019s record on biosecurity and at the hopeless, hapless Minister it has got who is the Minister for biosecurity. He has been hopeless in this position. He has let more insects and bugs into this country and put more things under threat than any other Minister in the history of this country. He cut the staff and he cut the funding, and now he wants to replace it by putting a levy on New Zealanders. What a sham. If it were really about biosecurity, Mr Minister, why not increase the levy on the ports and on containers? That is where you find most of your biosecurity risk, not the odd person who might inadvertently have an apple in their bag\u2014in fact, most of them are caught because they go past one of the sniffer dogs. It is in your containers and over your ports, so why not increase that levy? Oh no, there is no answer to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThis bill is a sneaky attempt to grab money from hard-working Kiwis who want a holiday. In its own documents, the Government says the most hard hit will be those going on short-term trips across the Tasman. For New Zealanders, probably the only trip that they can really afford is going across to Australia, and so they are the ones who are going to be mainly hit. What has been the reaction once they found out that this sneaky little tax was going to be introduced into this House? Air New Zealand said it was very surprised. It said that it will add to the cost of the ticket. Then it asked a very good question, and I hope that the Minister can answer this question. If it is really about biosecurity, it asked, what biosecurity or customs risk do New Zealanders who are leaving New Zealand pose? What is the biosecurity or customs risk that New Zealanders who are leaving pose? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e832c52a8a8484ab9fc67b0d066f7cb\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the immigration process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223070c5d645364fcbb9d5947e55691be9\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No. The big argument, Minister, is that it is for biosecurity. Your Minister Nicky Wagner, who just sat down\u2014she talked all about biosecurity. So, tell me, what is the risk in someone taking their bag and going to another country? What is the cost of a departure, because this is imposed not only on people coming into New Zealand but also on departure? The airline industry, which probably knows a little bit about people coming and going, actually, asked that question, Minister. I hope tonight, when you get into that chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b31a8a1192647b9a493f398ecae4080\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve answered it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206af7d85b8e94b2cac1ec5ab9eb81422\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you can sit in the chair and answer it properly, instead of just yelling across the House. The airline industry wants to know why it is going to be charged on people leaving New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ELet us see what the Board of Airline Representatives of New Zealand said. It said that the tax was \u201Cin breach of an understanding reached between the Government, airlines, and the tourism industry in 2003\u201D. Did the members opposite know that there was such an understanding\u2014that there was an understanding that has been in place since 2003? It was honoured for all the 5 years of a Labour Government, but broken, like its promises, by this Government. It breached an understanding, which means that its word is worth nothing\u2014it is worth nothing\u2014when an understanding is made. The Government announced this; it did not consult on it. It did not say: \u201CWe\u2019re going to do this.\u201D National has brought it in and it has breached an understanding between the Government, the airlines, and the tourism industry. You cannot trust those members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe airline representatives also said they were \u201Cdisappointed that the Government itself would harm the tourism industry.\u201D That is what they said. They are surprised that the Government itself would harm their industry\u2014a $10.4 billion industry. Tourism New Zealand\u2014what did it say? It said that taxes imposed in other countries had had an adverse effect on travel. Now let me go to the final point that I want to make. In December 2011 the British Government announced an increase in departure tax for air travellers to New Zealand. The Prime Minister went to Britain. He \u201Cslammed the decision\u201D, saying it would place \u201Ca significant burden on New Zealand businesses, on families who travel,\u201D. He said that it was a \u201Ctax\u201D and he said it was \u201Cdiscrimination on the basis of distance\u201D. That was said by the Prime Minister in 2011. He opposed this passenger tax in Britain. He flew there at the taxpayer\u2019s expense\u2014he flew there at the taxpayer\u2019s expense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fc51463890d43f7bd06b87fa6a09a92\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s $150.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224aa9b8e2d905431fa2c993aa12f1d30a\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I do not care how much it is, Mr Minister. It is the principle\u2014the principle. The principle\u2014it is a tax, and our Prime Minister flew to Britain to oppose it. He flew there to oppose it. He got headlines in the media. He got on the front of the television news because he said it was discrimination. Well, I will tell you, Mr Minister, what it is. It is a double standard, and it is what we expect from the National Party. Those members make promises that they break on a daily basis. They say: \u201CNo new taxes.\u201D, and they put in new taxes\u2014the biggest one, of course, being increased GST, which hurts the people who have the least in this country. Then tonight they are sneaking in a tax that they never consulted on. They have no right to bring it in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1aff2df3bf24bbbb407400e10164bca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1aff2df3bf24bbbb407400e10164bca\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Well, the last speaker, Annette King, certainly showed up her leader. She got more words out in 10 minutes than he got out in 20. Unfortunately, that speech was about as factual as his speech was the day before yesterday. I just need to point out a few facts in the process of supporting the two Ministers who have spoken before me on the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures Levy) Bill. For a start, a levy is a levy, a rate is a rate, and a tax is a tax, and clearly the Labour Party has not worked that out. Secondly, the Government is charged with running the country. The Labour Party has clearly forgotten that it had a turn at doing that a while ago and did not do much of a job of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe issue we have got here is that we have a large number of people coming into this country, demanding a service of this country, and creating a threat to this country in that we need to protect our border at all costs. We now have some 5.2 million people coming here annually. Well over 55 to 60 percent of those people are foreign visitors coming to this country. We have seen from the fruit fly just very recently in Auckland that there is significant risk to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI just want to make a couple of other points before I finish. Firstly, the taxpayers of New Zealand have been paying for this service for a long time. The average taxpayer in my electorate never leaves this country. The interesting thing about this is that most of the people who use this service are people who can afford to pay for this service and, consequently, I think there is a very fair way of allocating a levy, or a charge, to achieve a result for this country that will be much better than what we have seen before. It gives us some security, it gives us a permanency of payment, and it alleviates the need for a large number of New Zealand taxpayers who never use or have an interest in this service to contribute to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EOne other point I want to make in this debate is that this country is significantly tested around infrastructure by the large number of visitors we have to this country. I think it has been pointed that some 5.2 million people came to the country last year. In my electorate I have a couple of little towns, Sanson and Bulls. Some 14,000 vehicles a day go through those towns. Those local ratepayers or taxpayers have to pay every bit of that bill. I think this is just another case of exactly that sort of thing going on. I have a great deal of pleasure in supporting this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00220652ff5621304abfa8c40f3a748a454a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220652ff5621304abfa8c40f3a748a454a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I call James Shaw. Before the member starts, with the barracking across the cross benches it is very difficult to hear. So please give some courtesy to James Shaw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u002291c7b9b8af1549d5af6765a8430c94b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291c7b9b8af1549d5af6765a8430c94b9\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E We seem to be starting this bill where we left off with the Telecommunications (Development Levy) Amendment Bill with some rather cunning linguistics. When is a tax a tax? When is it a levy? When is a levy a tax? When is it a rate? \u201CWhat\u2019s in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet;\u201D. That is where we started yesterday with the telecommunications legislation\u2014was it a tax, was it a levy? Actually, who cares? Who cares what the language of it is. It is revenue that the Government needs to charge to cover its costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has never been particularly afraid of this notion. When the Government wanted to reduce, and did reduce, the top income tax rate and reduced the Government\u2019s revenue by about a billion dollars a year, which has led to record deficits and an inability to cover its expenses, we argued against that. It is OK. Sometimes you have to raise taxes in order to cover your costs, and the Government is doing that. It likes to pretend that it is not, by calling it something that it is not. But actually we know it for what it is. We commend the Government for raising the revenue that it needs to raise in order to cover the costs of running the country. That is completely fine. Bill English has raised or extended any number of taxes. The Government has raised GST, it has raised the petrol tax, it has removed the paper boy levy, and it has put a tax, I think, on private jets. Yesterday we extended an existing tax, which is the telecommunications development tax\u2014ah, levy rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d780c9f973e04d2b947ffd9969f28e89\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd14cb0a7ca64da2a86119c1d12c0f5e\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry. I am just pulling your ponytail. Whether it is a matter of double standards or broken promises, that is OK. It is a National Government. We expect that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ELet us talk about the substance of what this is about, which is to raise revenue to cover the costs of biosecurity and customs. The purpose of this bill is to introduce international passenger levies, which will be used to fund the costs of biosecurity and border control relating to imported pests, diseases, illegal drugs, and contraband. The measure is expected to raise about $100 million a year. These are costs relating only to international passengers, not to goods and freight, which are already covered by other border levies, taxes, and rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is supporting this bill. We think that it makes sense for a number of different reasons. First of all, it takes a cost of the industry, essentially of the tourism industry, that has previously been externalised to the New Zealand taxpayer, and it internalises that cost back into the industry. That cost has been borne by the public at large, through general taxation previously. The benefit, of course, comes back to the economy through international tourism and so on, but this is a much more direct and transparent way of making that cost apparent. Also, given that a significant number of the people who will be charged this tax, levy, and rate are foreign tourists to New Zealand, we are managing to raise additional revenue from people who are visiting this country, as opposed to the New Zealand taxpayers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESecondly, we have, and I have, criticised the Government for a habit of corporate welfarism in the past, which is to use general taxation to hand out to industry players in general. Both with the telecommunications development levy and this one, this is a much more direct and accountable way of raising these revenues and internalising those costs that are otherwise externalised. So we think it actually increases transparency and accountability to do it this way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAnother reason we are supporting it is that it ties revenue to actual numbers and actual costs. So as passenger numbers increase or decrease, the amount of revenue will track directly to that and therefore costs will expand and contract, based on actual passenger numbers, whereas there is some inefficiency if you do it just from general taxation. The costs are borne by travellers in this case, like I said, many of whom are international guests to the country and all of whom are generally people who can absorb this cost. As one of the Ministers who spoke previously to the bill said, this will account for less than 1 percent of the total cost. If you are paying $1,000 to come and visit New Zealand, another $36 on top is not actually going to make that much difference. Most other countries have airport taxes in place. I lived in the United Kingdom for most of my career, most of my adult life, and the airport taxes there\u2014to go in and out of Heathrow will cost you something in the order of NZ$142 and in Australia it is about $58. So our $36 in and out charge is actually pretty reasonable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has in the past called for the use of airport taxes to fund the Department of Conservation estate. Given that the vast majority of international travellers to New Zealand are people who are coming to look at the conservation estate and to take advantage of it, that would be a direct way of helping to fund the cost of the tourism industry on the conservation estate. Also, the cost of promoting, essentially, the conservation estate is borne in large part by a number of local authorities. There is some room to expand this in the future. Given that the levy that has been suggested here, of around $36, is a pretty low rate, there does seem to be some room in the future to bring that up to the median rate of airport taxes around the world, which could be used for those other purposes as well. So it sets a precedent to create some other opportunities in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI understand that the industry has a number of concerns, and again, because we are sitting under urgency, we are unable to have those voices represented, either for or against the bill, through the select committee process. That is unfortunate, as with all bills under urgency. Horticulture New Zealand has said that it is for this because, obviously, it is deeply concerned about biosecurity incursions. Because biosecurity funding was cut some years ago by this Government, there have been an increasing number of incursions. The cost to the economy of that is really substantial. So what this bill does is it restores some of the funding that was previously cut, and I can understand why Horticulture New Zealand would be keen on strengthening our biosecurity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAir New Zealand, Auckland Airport, and New Zealand Airports Association are obviously not in favour of this bill, and I can understand why. They have some concerns that it will affect our international competitiveness. It would be great if this was not an urgency debate and if we did have a select committee process where we could hear some evidence for and against that. I understand the industry concerns there. There are passengers who are price sensitive. My gut feeling is that a tax of less than 1 percent of the cost of travel is something that passengers can cope with and that it will not significantly affect our international competitiveness. Flight Centre has come out and said that it is pretty ambivalent about it. Its concern would be if the people who are being charged were not getting the benefit of this. So it has some concerns as well. I just wanted to represent those concerns in the absence of a select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EHaving said all of that, we do have a couple of concerns, one of which is that the cost of this is both biosecurity and customs, and some of it is revenue. It is $100 million of revenue estimated. Some of this revenue is going to go to upgrade our border security and customs, including new technology, X-ray machines, and so on. We have some caution around the use of this money for new technologies that may invade personal privacy, and we would like to hear from the Government side where that money is going and what kinds of new technologies it is looking at expanding that into. The upside is that I understand they are bringing back beagles. Everyone loves a beagle. We are going to see some puppies back at Auckland Airport, which is great. Also, there are some concerns about the extent to which the biosecurity money is simply topping up what was previously cut, as opposed to actually extending the biosecurity regime as well. So we just want to hear a bit more of that sort of information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EHaving said that, we do not like the fact that this bill is going through under urgency. We cannot see why it is an urgency bill. There does not seem to be anything particularly urgent about it, but, then, there has not been anything particularly urgent about any of the bills that have come through over the last few days. We are not happy about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe do have some concerns about privacy and about the use of the money for biosecurity. We do want the voice of industry to be represented if it has concerns that it does not feel have been adequately represented. But for all of the other reasons I stated, we will be supporting this bill in the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u002237c108fea92c458fa0be9165e0d81c7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237c108fea92c458fa0be9165e0d81c7d\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to rise on behalf of New Zealand First to take a call in the first reading of the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill. This is a bill that New Zealand First would very much like to be able to support. At the moment we do not\u2014or rather, we cannot\u2014support it because we have some questions and some concerns that are yet to be addressed and answered. I certainly hope that as the bill passes through the stages of urgency a Minister, or Ministers, or Government members take the opportunity to address these concerns and give us some answers. I notice that the Minister of Customs has already filled in a couple of details that I was not previously aware of, so that helps to fill in the gaps. Yesterday the Rt Hon Winston Peters referred to this bill as the \u201CHoliday Tax Bill\u201D, and that is one of our primary concerns. We are very concerned that in fact this may be nothing other than a holiday tax bill, and I would like the Minister or someone else to reassure us that it is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First has called long and loud and often for better resourcing for biosecurity. We understand just how vitally important biosecurity is for the primary sector. We know full well how important the primary sector is to the entire economy and to our way of life. There is an awful lot riding on it, and for that reason we have often and loudly called for better resourcing for biosecurity. If indeed this bill does constitute better resourcing, if it does mean more money, if it will mean more boots on the ground, and if it will mean more sniffer dogs and more X-ray machines, then those are good things that we will support wholeheartedly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI am a little bit concerned that Minister Wagner talked about cost recovery. That sort of raises a bit of a flag for me that perhaps this is not additional money; perhaps it is just shifting the revenue stream from one source to another. That is one of our concerns. If the Ministers can demonstrate how this levy is the best way to achieve an increase in resourcing for biosecurity, and do so convincingly, then we will be supportive of that as a move. But, as I said, at the moment we do not because there are still too many questions unanswered. There is too little in the way of detail and explanation in the bill itself, and in the Government\u2019s supporting material\u2014its publicity material. There are some elements of that that are kind of ambiguous. There is material in the departmental disclosure statement, for example, that seems to be at odds with some of the Government\u2019s publicity material, and it would give us great confidence if the Government was prepared to address these matters as we go through the stages and, hopefully, persuade us that our concerns are not founded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI say that because if it does not, then there is actually no other way in which this bill is able to be examined or explained, because this bill, like the others we have been debating since the Budget, is being pushed through under urgency, so there is no select committee process. There is no opportunity for the public to make submissions and no opportunity for industry, for the primary sector, to make submissions, and no opportunity for anybody who is going to be affected to ask questions and to have input. That is the nature of urgency. When we move into urgency and pass legislation under urgency what we are essentially doing is suspending the normal constitutional processes of this House and of the country. It is not something that we believe should be done lightly, or indeed often. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EBut it does seem\u2014certainly in the short number of years I have been in this House\u2014to be becoming something that this Government is tending to do more and more often, with greater frequency. Also it seems, to me anyway, that there is less and less in the way of justification. The day before yesterday, when the Leader of the House was advising us why this bill would go through under urgency, he said: \u201CThe Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill is being introduced because demand for border clearance services is increasing due to the number of airline and cruise ship passengers\u2014\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275b9a48e31514056a1c36d60ee83d11e\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What? Over the weekend?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d821fb0c97b4f368b8e95f2f76dbfab\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes\u2014\u201Carriving in and departing from New Zealand. This is expected to grow by some 3.5 percent annually for the foreseeable future, and we simply need to have the users of the services that we provide to protect our borders paying for them. This bill requires Customs and Excise Act and Biosecurity Act changes because they do not currently provide the facility to collect that levy. Urgency is necessary to allow for a period of consultation on the design\u201D\u2014meaning the design of the levy\u2014\u201Cpost the passing of the bill, which is the process that needs to be used. Thank you.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ESo, according to Mr Brownlee, urgency is needed because this is the process that needs to be used. So it is \u201Cjust because\u201D. Well, \u201Cjust because\u201D is hardly an explanation for why the nation\u2019s normal constitutional procedures are being sidelined. This is really a case of the Government saying to the Parliament: \u201CJust sign this blank cheque and we\u2019ll fill in the details later. Trust us. You don\u2019t need to know.\u201D So we have to ask why, and we would really like some explanation and some clarification around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThis is only a levy-setting bill, or a tax bill, or a bill that authorises a fee or a rate\u2014some money being paid. All it is is a bill that authorises a levy. We are not going to war. We are not declaring a republic. We are not changing the flag. I promise you we are not changing the flag\u2014believe you me, that ain\u2019t happening\u2014and we are not responding to some sort of natural disaster. We are applying a fee to passengers arriving and passengers departing, and that is all. I fail to see how anything to do with setting a fee can be so crucial that we have to rush it through under urgency and dispense with normal procedure. But we will, of course. The bill will go through, with our support or not, because the Government has the numbers. The ACT Party\u2014all of him\u2014will happily bend over in any direction the Government wants because he does not want to bite the hand that feeds him, and United Future will also be compliant. That is just the way he has become. I recall a politician, a member of this House from long ago, who used to refuse on principle to support any legislation that was going through under urgency. That man was Peter Dunne. I wonder what ever became of him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ESo this bill will go through and we will have the opportunity to ask the Minister and the Government some questions about it. We will seek to have a number of matters clarified, and if our concerns can be satisfied, then I say to the Ministers that we are capable of having our minds changed by way of sound reasoning, and we may well yet consider giving our support to the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022da588f650b8a40d1a7acdae33801ad2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da588f650b8a40d1a7acdae33801ad2b\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E In response to the previous speaker\u2019s questions around costs, 55 percent of the visitors who come to New Zealand are visitors from offshore, and therefore the tax, or the\u2014[Interruption] It is not a tax; it is a levy, and the levy will cover the costs and take the load off our taxpayers, as it should. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00226573e395ab9b4ec789c024a6c2a72c4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226573e395ab9b4ec789c024a6c2a72c4c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that this is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5ad74de3ef14e9dbe0dd71269b29ac1\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that too, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221303f5cdf28343ff80a64cdf03c5152f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Iain Lees-Galloway\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00223bad491f6cd5472cb929c20d217646c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bad491f6cd5472cb929c20d217646c6\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Finally we have confirmation from the member Stuart Smith that this is indeed a new tax. It is appropriate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022160ac91e61504468a6488e2d7ea9ed12\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: One honest National Party member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d21a5d137f4043eca0c4fc8942dd2e43\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we have found the honest National MP\u2014he will not go far. We have sat through this Budget legislation over the last 3 days, and many of us have been in the House for a lot of that time. The culmination of the legislation that has been passed through this House demonstrates to New Zealand that this is a Budget of broken promises and sneaky taxes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt is so appropriate that this bill is the finale, because this is a bill that passes not only a broken promise but also a sneaky tax. You may be wondering how it does that in light of National\u2019s promise at the last election. The sign I am holding says: \u201CNo new taxes\u201D. Read my lips\u2014no new taxes. That is what the National Party members promised to the people of New Zealand at the last election\u2014no new taxes\u2014yet that is exactly what they have done. They have brought legislation to this House in this Budget and introduced a bevy of sneaky little taxes because they cannot find a way into surplus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI will give them points for sincerity, though, because it says at the top here: \u201CA strong economy means\u201D and then \u201Cno new taxes\u201D. So fair enough\u2014they cannot build a strong economy. They have not got the faintest idea how to build a strong economy, so that is why we have ended up with a bevy of sneaky little taxes and broken promises. This legislation is all about broken promises and sneaky taxes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI am very concerned about the inflation rate on this tax. When Nicky Wagner and Nathan Guy announced it just a couple of days ago, it was going to be around $16 for people coming into the country and $6 to leave\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2ad9024467044b4babbc37d3e2bb716\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: No, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4ca7e1e5e6a4ca7a9fb3fc956608987\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Do not disagree with me, Nicky Wagner, because it came from your press release. If you think I am wrong, check with the communications team to make sure that your messages are getting through. So she said it would be about $16; today, it is $20 or thereabouts. Nicky Wagner is looking confused. Read the Hansard of your own speech, Nicky Wagner, because this is what you said. It is already $20. That is a 25 percent increase in just a couple of days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis tax is going up faster than Auckland house prices, and that is a scary thought. But hey, maybe it is not a tax. Maybe Stuart Smith was wrong\u2014no, he was not. He is right. He is right\u2014it is a tax. But if we accept for just a second National\u2019s line that it is actually a levy, that does not instil an awful lot of confidence because we know what National does with levies. What does it do with the ACC levies? It keeps them artificially high so that it can try to get the books back into surplus. So maybe the fact that it has gone from $16, 2 days ago, to $20 today, to goodness knows what when it is actually implemented is actually about the Government\u2019s plan to build up and overcharge on yet another levy so that it can try to get the books into surplus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe know what this is. It is a departure tax. I want to advise the Government members that we used to have a departure tax at Palmerston North Airport, and the people hated it. The people absolutely hated it. They are going to hate this and they are going to see right through it. They are going to know what this is. This is just another broken promise and another sneaky tax from this sneaky National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00229cbe3d31edfc410981a8389ef9d6d516\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cbe3d31edfc410981a8389ef9d6d516\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Steffan Browning\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022 data-id=\u00223df8c65f8719438c889b56153c1c3bbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223df8c65f8719438c889b56153c1c3bbb\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING (Green):\u003C/span\u003E We will be supporting this bill. We see that this sort of user-pays method to fund some aspects of biosecurity and customs processing is appropriate. But this levy is no magic bullet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265eb838e4ba84eefb544721f0cbd6a11\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022974febbde3b54b739e10fe6c119b5dc1\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING\u003C/span\u003E: It is a levy. It is a tax. It is a whatever. It is a source of income for these processes at the border. It is just a fraction of what is needed for biosecurity. We will be speaking, obviously, at another time on the total budget for biosecurity. The Government has added\u2014supposedly added\u2014only about $25 million to biosecurity, and that is a very, very concerning thing. This is just another revenue source. The $100 million that is anticipated in 2017-18 is only a source to basically cover the limited amount that is being used already out of other revenue streams. Biosecurity at the border needs a lot\u2014a lot\u2014more money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI have put it to the Minister for Primary Industries that even if you used 50 percent of what you are going to get from this new income stream and added it to existing biosecurity money, it will still not be enough for biosecurity. Think of the fruit fly. How did it get in this last time? Previously, up in Whangarei, we thought it was probably by a yacht, and then another time, another yacht possibly. Are these people going to get taxed? Is someone going to be tapping them on the shoulder to pay their levy? I hope so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a74ebc0a051443ab9949d76e432c2c26\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: They are, as they come in, as they clear customs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a378c91108ac4b369bab989b4f7eb0ea\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, so is the Customs Service going to be there for these stray yachts\u2014waifs and strays\u2014as they come in to inspect them properly and to gather their tax? I hope so, because they need to be paying their part of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EHowever, then we had the Auckland incursions, the more recent ones. What has that cost so far? And it is not over yet. We have to wait until spring to see whether there is a re-emergence because it was not nipped in the bud quick enough. Worse, these Queensland fruit flies actually got in here and were able to sit in New Zealand and breed for at least one generation, and, by the look of it, there was more than one generation of breeding in New Zealand because we did not nip it in the bud. Is this levy/tax going to do the job? No, it is not. It is just going to make sure that some of those people who could have been responsible are going to be paying their way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EBack in the mid-1990s, even, when HortResearch looked at the potential cost of the Mediterranean fruit fly\u2014a good proxy for the Queensland fruit fly\u2014the cost for the Bay of Plenty, should it get going there, was $820 million and a cost, basically, of 3,500 jobs. In the Hawke\u2019s Bay it was $390 million with over 3,000 jobs lost, and in the Nelson area it was $265 million with close to 2,000 jobs lost. It is critical that we do biosecurity to the nth degree and do way, way better than we are doing at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI would actually like to pat the Minister Nathan Guy on the back. I have been watching biosecurity very closely, well before I was in Parliament and right through to this time. Unfortunately, in 2008, when National got in, there were significant cuts to biosecurity in this country. There was an immediate loss of almost 60 jobs, and I think a year or so later there were another 200 jobs down the gurgler in biosecurity. Importantly, many of these were on the front line. What we have been seeing is an incremental increase and repair to that. I will speak further on this in a later speech. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277333e3c-5658-4149-9cad-262a0deed378\u0022 data-id=\u002248dddcebfc6544119ab70833dd05a548\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277333e3c-5658-4149-9cad-262a0deed378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248dddcebfc6544119ab70833dd05a548\u0022\u003ETODD BARCLAY (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022c567440b73e343e89e8cc4dc8d37a148\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c567440b73e343e89e8cc4dc8d37a148\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E That was an excellent speech\u2014an excellent speech. This is a tax. We know it is a tax. Government members might pronounce it \u201Clevy\u201D, but it is spelt t-a-x\u2014tax. That is what it is, that is what the Oxford Dictionary says it is, and that is what it really is. Why does the Government not just front up and admit it? The reason it does not want to front up and admit it is that at the last election the National Party promised not to put up taxes. It also promised to get us back into surplus. The whole murky tangle of web is all around this. This is about trying to narrow down the deficit by putting through these sneaky taxes and cutting our KiwiSaver kick-start contribution. Those are the things that we see so transparently that the Government is doing in order to get us back into surplus. The National Party said no new taxes; this is a tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWhy is it that we are sitting here on Saturday night putting through a bill under urgency when there is nothing on the Order Paper? The Order Paper is empty. In a few weeks\u2019 time Gerry Brownlee will stand up at the beginning of Parliament and say: \u201CThere is nothing to do today.\u201D, because there actually is not very much to do. Why are we sitting here under urgency? The only reason is that we do not want to give New Zealanders the opportunity to sit down and debate this. Why would New Zealanders want to be coming in front of a select committee? Because they would point out to the Government in front of the media, day after day after day, that this is a tax. It is not a levy; it is a tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThere is no secret as to why this Government needs to lift its game when it comes to biosecurity\u2014not if you live in the Mt Albert electorate, which I live in. It is currently infested with Queensland fruit fly. Maybe some of the money that it raises can be used to compensate the fruitgrowers and the shopkeepers in my electorate, because they have suffered, by most calculations of the supermarkets there, 50 percent in terms of lost revenue from the sale of fruit and vegetables. They have been infested because this Government has taken its eye off biosecurity. There is nothing more important to the economy of this country than biosecurity. Steffan Browning said it before, and I totally agree with him, but he got his numbers a little wrong. It was 91 front-line staff who were cut in 2009\u201491. We stopped X-raying a lot of bags. We cut back on the number of dogs that were checking baggage coming into our airports. And the result is that we have had two outbreaks of Queensland fruit fly, and one of them is still alive and active. That is a desperate and wanting policy, and that is why this Government has to step up and really put some money behind it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EBut that is not the end of the problem\u2014that is not the end of the problem. The other part of it, which my colleague Rino Tirikatene pointed out, is the JBMS. That is a shocker. The JBMS is the Joint Border Management System. It was supposed to revolutionise everything coming into New Zealand. Well, it has failed. In 2010 it was on the books costing $75 million. In 2013 it had jumped to $90 million. In 2014 it was up to $104 million, and it is still not doing what IBM, which is the main contractor, said it was going to be able to do. I would like to ask Nicky Wagner, when she has a chance later on in the Committee stage, to stand up and say: \u201CNo, we are definitely not taking IBM to court.\u201D\u2014we are not taking IBM to court\u2014because there is a very big rumour around town that IBM is under the gun and is going to be taken to court. This smells and tastes like Novopay, and that is another reason why this Government has to bring out another tax\u2014another tax\u2014to try to cover the books. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThis is a disgrace. The biosecurity has let in more pests in the last 2 years than in any other time in our history, and the Joint Border Management System and the customs system is falling over and costing this country millions. This is a tax, a tax, a tax, and let us not forget it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee92f426005d4667b6334bc26f00bf03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee92f426005d4667b6334bc26f00bf03\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E I am in favour of this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228e855a5668a04d38b5a78ff6da838f87\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 73\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 10; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 40\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 28; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b1c036b55a6b4a0bad99aef6c8bf36ea\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u002220efb448f3ea410980435911353d524e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220efb448f3ea410980435911353d524e\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E I move, that the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Act be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6d390f38d0d4173aad3982d888e50e2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: It is a levy bill, not an Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e642a92f4dca4d6f801148d71eee5352\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill be now read a second time. As I outlined to the House earlier, this levy will fund the costs of border processing incurred by the Ministry for Primary Industries and the New Zealand Customs Service, and ensure that border services are sustainable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe Ministry for Primary Industries and the Customs Service together spend around $100 million a year on border clearance for passengers and crew. In the past these costs have been met by taxpayers. It is worth noting that around 55 percent of arriving and departing passengers come from overseas, and therefore do not contribute directly to the costs of our border services. The Government considers it is fairer for these costs to fall on passengers travelling internationally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EOur borders are dealing with increasing volumes. Arriving air-passenger volumes have grown by more than 18 percent, from 4.4 million in 2009 to 5.2 million in 2014, and are expected to continue to increase by around 3.5 percent per year. The levy will help ensure our border processes stay fit for purpose into the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt is likely that the total costs for all passengers arriving in and departing from New Zealand will be around $22, inclusive of GST, but further modelling\u2014[Interruption]\u2014in consultation with stakeholders, if members opposite would listen, and with the New Zealand public needs to be completed before the total amount is confirmed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EOfficials are preparing a discussion document outlining the proposed options, which will be released for public feedback in June. The levy is proposed to take effect on 1 January 2016, and will be applied to tickets purchased on or after that date. Around 95 percent of travellers cleared at the border arrive on commercial airlines, about 4 percent come on cruise ships, and the remaining 1 percent come on private aircraft, yachts, cargo ships, etc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThis announcement is part of a range of measures in Budget 2015 to improve security and services at the border involving immigration, customs, and biosecurity. The Ministry for Primary Industries and the Customs Service have already been working closely together to make improvements at the border, sharing their facilities, cross-warranting of staff, enhanced profiling, targeting of incoming passengers, and the use of automated systems such as SmartGate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe introduction of the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill will put border services on a sustainable footing by allowing funding to increase as passenger numbers rise, which is fairer, and it will be more responsive to managing the risks at the border as well as providing quality services. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u002298eef1d0368f477b90892f0ef2c166fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298eef1d0368f477b90892f0ef2c166fa\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. I am pleased to speak at the second reading of the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill. Ordinarily, a second reading takes place after the bill has been referred to select committee, and has received public submissions and viewpoints from the industry and from all around affected persons. That is the path that this bill should be taking but, unfortunately, here we are on Saturday, approaching 6 o\u2019clock, and we are now into the second reading of a bill that this Government has admitted is a tax. I would like to acknowledge Mr Smith for telling the truth and acknowledging that this levy is a tax. So thank you, Mr Smith, for that. I am sure you will progress really well amongst your team. Good luck to you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis is a tax and, unfortunately, it is a slap in the face for New Zealand\u2019s tourism industry. It is the second-largest foreign-exchange earner for our country: over $10 billion in earnings is generated by the tourism industry. What was the tourism industry told about this? What was the tourism told about this\u2014absolutely nothing. And who is its Minister, the Minister of Tourism? That is right, \u201CJandal John\u201D\u2014\u201CJandal John\u201D, flip-flopping all the time. Just a couple of years ago he was trying to advocate to bring down these taxes, so we could actually have open transfer and facilitation of tourism travel. But no, what has he done? He has absolutely thumbed his nose at the industry and absolutely gone contrary to all of the work that it has been doing. It has been outlined in the 2025 strategy of the New Zealand tourism industry. A lot of work has been going on in terms of promoting freer flow of tourists, and what we are seeing is the opposite. This bill will actually be doing the opposite. It is just an attempt by this Government to collect more revenue by targeting travellers\u2014ordinary Kiwis, ordinary folks, and all of our international visitors who want to make a trip to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBut there is a cost to this. There is the assumption that, yes, we have got a free flow of visitors, but if you look at the trans-Tasman market for tourists there are a million empty seats on those flights every year. It is a highly priced, competitive, short-haul flow of aircraft, and so it puts a lot of pressure on the travel agents, the airline industry, and the like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be0dd32d352c45ac853ac530a4825bbe\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying before the dinner break, the tourism industry has identified the actual benefits from lowering or having no travel taxes imposed. It has been working very closely with our Australian counterparts. There are a million vacant seats\u2014unused seats\u2014on those routes and the tourism industry research said that there could possibly be a 13 percent yield in benefits from maintaining or having lower or no travel taxes imposed. But what has this Government done? It has actually done the complete opposite, and we are now imposing our own travel tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe other point I want to make is around what the proceeds from this travel tax will be going towards. As we know, they are going towards protecting our borders and biosecurity. Basically, this is an admission from this Government that its border management has been underperforming. This measure is an admission of that, and what we have seen are the incursions of fruit flies and other nasty organisms that pose a real threat to our primary industries, especially. This should not be taken lightly. It is a very, very serious matter, our biosecurity system. I know that the Ministry for Primary Industries has various levels of protection, I guess, that we use. But this is an admission that the Government has been underperforming, because you know you are in trouble when you have to call your fisheries officers out to try to chase a fruit fly or look after a sick pig. You know you are in trouble when you are doing that. Our dedicated and highly trained fish cops have been diverted by biosecurity matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe68a5c9720b4898a30649bb9b325d40\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Coast gets plundered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb4054281809451a9289b3e38f073fd3\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, and then the coast gets plundered. So that is an admission from this Government that it has underperformed in this area. It is a shame, though. The Crown has funded our biosecurity system and our services, and it should continue to do so. There is no need. It is hurting our tourism industry and it remains to be seen whether there is a reduction in visitor numbers as a result of the imposition of this tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe other point I want to move on to now goes back to the Joint Border Management System, the JBMS. That is right, that $100 million lemon, which has not even been delivered yet. The full functionality has not been delivered and it is still kept a secret. If this travel tax is imposed, I think that the travellers\u2014the people who are leaving our shores, and our tourists\u2014have a right to know what their levy spend is actually going on. The Minister has given an assurance with regards to the Joint Border Management System that there is nothing to see and everything is all OK. Well, if that is the case, then why keep it secret? I believe that if Kiwis are paying this tax, which is there to protect our borders, and there is a joint system that has cost $100 million, then Kiwis need to know what they are paying for. There has been a failure to deliver on the Joint Border Management System. For cargo users of the Joint Border Management System, there is a user-pays charge. They know what they are paying for. Well, what is the passenger component? What is the passenger component of the Joint Border Management System? What is that passenger component, because travellers have the right to know? They do have the right to know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIf passengers are paying a levy for greater, enhanced, sophisticated risk analysis of their movements, well, then it is very fair that the public of New Zealand, especially, who have paid over $100 million so far, have a right to know what they are actually getting. Enlighten us, Minister. Enlighten the country as to what it is, because what are the risk and intelligence tools that the Joint Border Management System is delivering? We want to know because the system still has not been delivered yet. It is 3 years too late. It still has not been delivered. We have been told that the delivery date is going to be December this year, but now it is getting put back. We are getting signals that it can be put back again. The Joint Border Management System is actually the engine room, or it is supposed to be. The computer systems between the Ministry for Primary Industries and the Customs Service are joined up so all of the passenger screenings and the biosecurity risk analysis are driven by the Joint Border Management System. If the travel tax is going towards that, then we need to know what the passenger component is. Hopefully, the Minister will enlighten us later on, because that is a very serious issue of public interest, given the huge price tag on this system, which no one seems to know what it is doing and you never hear anything about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf0664e916d047e5b7edee85e62e755b\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s because it\u2019s working so well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddd664f722e44e0699695fec01f95cc6\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is not working so well. If it was working so well, why are you keeping it secret? Why are you keeping it secret, Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6f1bb9a2c17439cbd4839d135ac3e7b\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: Success is no news.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223edb23ea61054117a468a96c5fe8bcec\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no. This Minister has been negligent in suppressing the details. The public of New Zealand deserve an answer, particularly now that all travellers who will be crossing our borders will be paying a levy that will be subjected to the Joint Border Management System. They are paying for it, so they have a right to know what they are getting for their spend. So we are looking forward to your elucidation on that point. We know that this is just another tax, we know it is a broken promise from this Government, and we continue to oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u002236706b7642e743c0bfc0a77386fb32e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236706b7642e743c0bfc0a77386fb32e0\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E The New Zealand public told us they wanted a safe border. They want to make sure that it is secure against illegal people and illegal goods\u2014that is, drugs, firearms, and objectionable material\u2014and they want us to manage biosecurity risks such as fruit fly and foot-and-mouth disease, and that is what this levy will do. This levy in the Border Processing, (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill will amend the Biosecurity Act and the Customs and Excise Act, and it will impose a border clearance levy for arriving and departing passengers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI want to make it very clear that this levy is only cost recovery. It will be put into a trust account. It will have nothing to do with the Joint Border Management System, because the Joint Border Management System deals with goods. This is to do with passengers, and the Joint Border Management System deals with goods, and Joint Border Management System goods have always had a levy. Goods have had a levy since the early 1990s, so this is exactly the programme that we are going to introduce for passengers as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI want to start by answering Mrs King\u2019s question: what is the difference between a levy and a tax, and why is it absolutely consistent that the Prime Minister has attacked the UK carbon tax and is absolutely supportive of this cost recovery levy? New Zealand\u2019s cost recovery levy is about $20, maybe $22, and that reflects the cost that the New Zealand taxpayer is subsidising for every single passenger who comes across our border. The UK tax is about $150, and although $20 of it may be used for a border levy the rest of it is a carbon tax, and it was designed to be a carbon tax. It is a carbon tax on distance, a carbon tax on air miles flown for long-haul passengers. Of course, that is calculated on the number of miles, and that is particularly tough on a country like New Zealand on the opposite side of the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EAt the moment, if you look at the status quo in New Zealand, it is a lose-lose for New Zealanders. Every New Zealander is paying for other people to come across our border. Then, on top of that, when New Zealanders go to another country they have to pay to go across others\u2019 borders. So not only are we paying for our own borders but we are also paying for everybody else\u2019s borders. That is lose-lose. This change will mean that it is best international practice and it will bring New Zealand into a place that is much more satisfactory for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI would also like to explain to Mr Lees-Galloway about the cost of this. It is all to do with addition. What our press release said was that it is going to cost $16 at arrival. The levy is $16 at arrival and $6 at departure. The reason for that is that there is much more work at arrivals than there is at departure, because we deal with biosecurity at arrivals rather than at departure. But instead of it being inflationary, as he seems to think, it is actually going to be deflationary, because I think it is probably going to end up at about $20. We believe it is $20 well-spent for New Zealanders, to protect our borders. Just let me make it very clear. This is in comparison with Australia, which is $58 and the UK, which is $150.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ELet us now have a little bit of a chat about the Joint Border Management System. I would like to answer Mr Shearer\u2019s queries and Mr Tirikatene\u2019s questions. The Joint Border Management System is working well. I will make it clear again. It manages goods, not passengers. Goods have always paid a cost levy. So this levy actually brings passengers in line with goods. I am really pleased to be able to announce a really good news story. Right now we are able to tell you that the Joint Border Management System has just reached 2 million transactions. I did put out a press release about this time last year when we got to 500,000. But we have now got to 2 million transactions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddaa37e9412347d7b1d46bbdc2b03a99\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Wow, 2 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022641c924e62cf45d596b4364fdc395718\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER\u003C/span\u003E: Fantastic. And on top of that, exporters now have the ability, the tools, to be able to register online themselves. In the past it used to take 24 hours to register online. They can now do it within minutes. That is a fantastic improvement for the Joint Border Management System. I would also like to tell you that every week more companies are transferring to WCO Data Model 3, which is the new data protocol. This is cutting-edge, latest technology, latest data protocol, and every week more and more of our transactions through the Joint Border Management System are moving that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI would just like to make the point that the Customs Service is 175 years old this year. It is the oldest department\u2014175 years. We are also dealing with cutting-edge technology, cutting-edge IT, and I think it just goes to show that you can teach old dogs new tricks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EAlso I would like to make a comment for the member Steffan Browning. He was concerned about private yachts. This levy will be in place for private yachts, private aircraft, and anybody who comes across our borders. As it is now, every yacht and every aircraft that comes into New Zealand goes through the customs process for arrival and departure, and we will collect the levy at that time. So he needs to understand that we will be doing a good job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to get back to Rino Tirikatene again. I just want to tell him that we are not taking biosecurity or security at our border lightly. He seems to think we take it lightly. He probably has not realised that we have actually put $30 million in this Budget on top of this levy to beef up what we are doing at the border. So in the meantime this $30 million is going in this Budget. I also want to tell him that nobody seems to believe that this will make a difference to tourists\u2019 behaviour. This cost is less than 1 percent for a long-haul flight, and it is only one of thousands of variables that people have when they travel. For example, how much does it cost you to get to the airport? What do you eat at the airport? What do you buy duty-free? What do you spend on entertainment on the plane? What do you spend in your country? The interesting thing is that I had a look at some research that said that in the last month the average Australian visitor to New Zealand lost more than $20 just on the exchange rate between Australia and New Zealand. So this is not going to make a difference. In fact, I have a quote from a well-respected tourist leader, who says \u201CIt won\u2019t make a blind bit of difference.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI just want to summarise why this levy is so important for New Zealand and why New Zealanders should be pleased to see it. First of all, it is flexible and futureproof. As the numbers of passengers and travellers increase across our borders, the resources will be there to manage them. As we get more and they are more risky, we will be able to make sure that we keep our borders safe. It is also fairer. I have explained that at the moment every New Zealander, every Tom, Dick, and Harry, is paying $23 in their tax to subsidise international people coming across our borders\u2014people who are on a luxury cruise, people who are coming to play golf in New Zealand. So why should the Whangarei panel beater or the solo parent in Christchurch pay for these people to come across our borders? What we have got now, because the rest of the world is putting on these levies, is a lose-lose for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI just want to make one little reflection before I go. Before I was an MP I did not used to like paying tax. I think it was because Labour was in power and I did not trust the way it spent the money. But now I do understand where the money is going, I know that it is spent wisely, and I do not feel so bad about our tax. Most New Zealanders want their tax money to go to something useful. They want it, perhaps, to go to poorer families. They want it to go to hip operations. They want it to go to education. People like their taxes to go to something useful, not to subsidise international passengers. So this levy is good for New Zealand, it is good for New Zealanders, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00221df7b1ea292e4908a5572f3d54463dff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221df7b1ea292e4908a5572f3d54463dff\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E There is hope for Stuart Smith, because before the dinner break he got up and he told New Zealand what we all know: tonight we are debating a new tax that National brought in. We on this side of the House were discussing over dinner what a tragic end this was to Stuart Smith\u2019s political career\u2014so short, burnt bright, and out on one night. But Nicky Wagner has saved him. Stuart Smith could be the next Nicky Wagner\u2014that is what we are finding out tonight\u2014because she has just told us that the promise has been broken: \u201CNo new taxes.\u201D That was the promise, and Nicky Wagner has just told us right now that it is a tax. Every single New Zealander knows that, Nicky Wagner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EJohn Key went on the television last night and invited New Zealanders to google the difference between \u201Ctax\u201D and \u201Clevy\u201D. So I have done that, and I can tell you that a tax is a compulsory contribution to State revenue levied by the Government on workers\u2019 income and business profits, or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions\u2014something that we understand a tax to be. If we google \u201Ca levy\u201D we see it is \u201Ca tax\u201D or, in fact, both\u2014the verb to impose a tax and the act of levying a tax. In fact, some dictionaries go on to say \u201CUse the word \u2018levy\u2019 as you would use the word \u2018tax\u2019.\u201D So there we go\u2014it is all there, right here for you. We are happy to table it for you, John. It is one with pictures, so you will be fine; you will be good with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo what we now have is a levy that is a tax and a tax that is a levy, except that the Prime Minister does not think that they are the same. We are through the looking glass. This is what Humpty Dumpty told us: \u201CWhen I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean\u2014neither more nor less.\u201D John Key is through the looking glass with Humpty Dumpty, breaking the promise, breaking the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022109322ee182b48d6b14984d89963677f\u0022\u003EHon Craig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, give us some poetry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0c5fdb9aae447dca27d8584785180d6\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Poetry? You would not know a poem if you fell over it, Mr Foss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis is a broken promise. That is what this is. It is not just a broken promise to the voters of New Zealand, who were told at the election by all the National candidates over there that there would be no new taxes; it is a broken promise to the airline industry. The board and airline representatives have made it quite clear that \u201CNational\u2019s new tax\u201D\u2014they understand that\u2014\u201Cbreaches the understanding reached in 2003. Airlines already met the full costs of aviation safety and in return the Government met the costs of Customs. Under the deal the Government was to bear the costs of agricultural screening, which is deemed to be for the benefit of the primary industries.\u201D It is a broken promise to New Zealanders; a broken promise to the airline industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut, of course, we all know that John Key is a straight-talking guy. If he went to a conference of a sector that was going to be deeply affected by something that was happening in the Budget\u2014oh, I do not know\u20142 days after his speech, he might mention it to them. John Key goes to the Tourism Industry Association conference last week, and it slips his mind. Obviously there are a lot of things on his mind, but he fails to even mention it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac475c09006b4698889ae361b1ac0f8e\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Slippery mind\u2014that is why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e8f4ab3dddb421c8f7693789d0f6b2a\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right\u2014because he is indeed, Carmel Sepuloni, very, very slippery. It is a sneaky tax, it is a broken promise, and that is all that New Zealanders will see it as.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut it gets worse. As we look through the department disclosure statement\u2014and I hate to break this to the Minister Nicky Wagner, who got up to give us the numbers before; we had 16, 20, and 22. Do I have any advance on 22\u2014no, apparently not, according to the Minister. When we look at the department disclosure statement, it says, as it goes through, about the model of the levy: \u201C[All of] this work will inform the final levy design, including the level of the levy.\u201D So the level of the levy\u2014which is a tax\u2014will still now be part of the consultation process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis is a bizarre situation. Here we are, at 20 past 7 on a Saturday night, apparently urgently passing this legislation to enable the imposition of this tax, and the final design of the tax\u2014the level of the tax\u2014is not even going to be worked out. It is off for consultation. It is like going to the city council to get a building consent and saying \u201CWe are pretty sure the house is going to have some walls, and we might put a roof on it, and there could be a floor but, look, we\u2019ll work it out later. Just give us the consent now.\u201D That is what the National Party is doing tonight. There are all sorts of questions about whom it will apply to, and will there be exemptions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EHere is a question for the National members: will there be exemptions? Will it apply to every person who crosses the border? There is silence\u2014absolute silence. They have not got a clue whether this tax will apply to every person who comes across the border. Here is a question for you: would it have applied to Prince Harry? No one\u2014no one; they have not got a clue. They do not know what this is about. They have come to this House with an ill-thought-out tax\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eb5fa7e3a70464da1eb4d8b67a269cc\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Will it apply to Gerry Brownlee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022422230b916864fe08b0af2e6fb1778e8\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Will it apply to Gerry Brownlee? He will sneak through, so it will not apply to him. Actually, someone called Gerry\u2014his phone is on the desk, so I am not sure what happened there. He may have been a bit angry earlier on and ripped it off. Ring up Gerry Brownlee and find out whether this tax will apply to him. At the moment, what we are being asked to pass in this Parliament is a piece of legislation to impose a tax that the Government does not know how much it is going to be, to whom it will apply, how much it is going to cost to administer, and exactly who is going to administer it. It is a shambles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e36512bedc4b4577bf04b07814c93d60\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: But it is very urgent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2ac4fba97ea4a2780ae5ae666287644\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is extremely urgent, but it is a complete shambles and it is a total broken promise, which symbolises everything about this Budget\u2014a tax on travellers that is a broken promise, a property tax about which Bill English said today that he did not even know whether it would work; he is not too sure about that. These are broken promises, and a shambolic Budget. On this side of the House, in a second reading debate, we really should be debating now the contributions of all of the people who submitted at the select committee\u2014the tourism industry, the airline industry, travellers\u2014and we do not have their voices here today. For all of those reasons we cannot support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd8a35b54fbc466fb218e106e379703a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd8a35b54fbc466fb218e106e379703a\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E I will be very brief. I commiserate with Mr Smith; I would not want to be on Grant Robertson\u2019s dinner plate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ETwo very quick points: the levy will not put an impost on those who cannot afford to pay it. It is worth remembering that. The second point about this is that the levy also affords further protection to the income streams of rural and provincial New Zealand, thus boosting the potential for rural and provincial New Zealand to participate in or make a contribution to the Government\u2019s growth targets. I have great pleasure in commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022 data-id=\u00226f552c1588ce436cbed197f9eab6daaa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f552c1588ce436cbed197f9eab6daaa\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in the second reading of the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill. Following on from what the Labour members were saying, this shows a sad lack of process. We might be supporting the bill, but we think there is a very sad lack of process. We agree that there should have been submissions to a select committee, which would have added a much better context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EAs we heard, importers might want to see a little bit of a fairer balance between their fees and the tourism industry, the fees on these people who will be coming in. I am wondering which one actually deserves to pay the most. We are hearing that it will be $16 probably\u2014probably, but we do not know about the exemptions. It will be $16 out, maybe $6 in, and possibly $22\u2014we do not know. For every importation, an importer pays $13.15 from 1 July, or, depending on another level, $17.37. It is pretty similar money. I am just wondering, if we had submissions and we had some very solid depth to this, we would understand which one was the riskier, which one should pay to get the balance right, if we are talking about biosecurity alone. I would like to know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI would like to know\u2014probably from the Cabinet papers that we have not seen or the other papers that we have not seen yet\u2014in terms of the real costings, where the risk lies and what the cost-benefit ratios of each would be. Under what sort of consultation will that happen? Consultation will not be that thorough, and it will not have that opportunity, from our previous experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI started on a story before about where the Minister is going with biosecurity. He said that it was his most important area. I believe him, actually. I think he is doing quite well in that area, but he will never do well enough if he is using 2008 figures, when National came into power and did these big cuts. It would appear that the Minister Nathan Guy has got us back, in dollar terms, to 2008. But 2008 was not good enough, either. Before that, in the previous Labour Government, we had didymo, the varroa mite, and a lot more. But our risks appear to be increasing. Of course, we have more tourists and we have more trade, and we need to go a lot, lot further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThe Minister has done some catching up. I want to know from the Minister what his real numbers are at the moment in terms of staff, and in terms of dogs. Some of the time he talks about new staff and new dogs, but we are still not up to those 2008 numbers, and the question is whether this Budget or this bill will help exceed those numbers, and ultimately exceed them significantly. Good on the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EIt is a real shame about the incursions that we got, and are still getting, because of the huge knock backs that happened following 2008. There is a whole range of different pests and diseases that have come in in recent times, and that have not been managed very well. Theileria is one that possibly came in with cattle; it may have come in with some other animal. Where is the tax for that one? Did Psa come in pollen? Did it come in a matchbox in somebody\u2019s luggage? Was varroa on a bee in a matchbox in someone\u2019s luggage? Didymo was probably on some fisherman tourist\u2019s spongy boots, I would expect. Kauri dieback was probably brought in on machinery, but we do not know for sure. How did the Hadda beetle come in? We assume that the great white butterfly at Port Nelson came from the port; we assume it did not come with a tourist but we do not know. And what about Psyllid. All these have had massive costs to this economy and to this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EA number of them are still here, with significant costs. They have come in because of inadequate biosecurity controls. Not only that, will this fund address the next stage\u2014the clean ups, the dealing with those incursions? I doubt it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThey are finally getting on to the great white butterfly, thanks to the Minister, possibly listening to the Greens and others. The Department of Conservation was actually the one that really got it moving because the Ministry for Primary Industries did not, but, ultimately, between them it appears they may have got control. But at what huge cost was that, and what was the threat to both biodiversity and also the agricultural economy? The Theileria, which I mentioned before, is here for ever. How did this Government manage that? Absolutely woefully. MAF Biosecurity is underfunded. I do not think MAF Biosecurity staff are bad. I do not think they are incapable. I just think there are far too few of them and they keep getting mucked around and being told to do a new strategy. I think we are on the third new strategy within a decade\u2014the third new strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EAnd then some of the pathways work that looks to be actually meaningful in getting there is getting some funding knocked off it. That Theileria is huge: it will be costing us hundreds of millions of dollars in the near years\u2014what it has cost and what it will carry on costing in lost production. There is major lost production: the loss of cows being able to carry embryos, to conceive, other ones dying, ill thrift, lack of production\u2014a massive cost. Varroa is still costing us and will continue to cost us. These things also mean we end up using pesticides that we do not need to be using in this country\u2014if we were to stop these things at the border, or clean up absolutely immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI mentioned the fruit fly earlier and that clean up. I visited the Auckland area several times to see how they were doing this, and how they were managing this fruit fly incursion. I believe that they did not have adequate advice. Again, the staff are pretty good, and I have met with some of them and had a briefing and understand what their logic was. They did not open up to enable further advice to do a better, quicker job and, as I heard from one of our fellow members over here before, the cost was something like 50 percent of turnover for some of the businesses. I watched the changes in that, and eventually we got some better systems in and businesses were able to trade a little bit more freely. But there are still impositions on business in that area, and no doubt there will be a lot more in spring again until we get the all clear. So the Greens will support this, but we want to see a lot more than this going into biosecurity and customs clearance. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u00225e80ed6916394e1ea4f77a136a60d2ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e80ed6916394e1ea4f77a136a60d2ed\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to rise to take a call in the second reading of the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill as it scurries its way urgently through the House. In the absence of a select committee process\u2014or any other mechanism of public scrutiny, come to that\u2014it appears that all we have left as a means for ascertaining the reasons behind this bill and for getting some kinds of answers out of the Government is this process of urgency. I have to say that I am a little hurt that Minister Wagner addressed everyone\u2019s questions except mine. I am not taking it personally; it is just that I want to know why. Maybe they were questions that the Minister felt she could not answer. Maybe they cut too deeply to the heart of the matter. But, anyway, I am sure that the Minister will take the opportunity to address the concerns that we have as a party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe first question I have is that we have been given an indication that this levy\u2014fee, tax, whatever we want to call it\u2014is going to be added on to the cost of tickets, and that will be tickets that are sold here going outwards and tickets that are purchased overseas coming inwards. What I want to know from the Government is: at what stage of the GST process does this levy get applied? Does this levy get applied before GST is added, or after? Is it, in fact, going to have GST on it as well, and is it going to be another tax upon a tax, in the same way that GST on rates is a tax on a tax? This is another case of what happens in terms of unintended consequences\u2014or perhaps, actually, they are intended consequences\u2014when due process is done away with and things happen in a hurry and there is not the time for reflection and contemplation and consideration and questions being asked and answered. Maybe this is one of these things that will just get sorted out later. If the Government does not want to make it a tax upon a tax and add GST on to the levy, well, then there is going to have to be a whole lot more administration involved, and that is going to raise the cost as well, so the value of the levy itself is going to fall\u2014unless, of course, it does not mind adding a tax on a tax, but this we will find out, I suppose, at some stage in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWhat is really starting to coalesce as being the centre point, I guess, of our difficulty with this bill is that we do not know whether this levy is intended to be additional funding for biosecurity or whether it is actually intended to just replace existing funding. Mr McKelvie, in his long, rambling speech of about 30 seconds, I think it was, spoke of a boost to biosecurity funding. But the Minister has consistently talked about cost recovery. Well, it is one or the other. You know, it is either an additional source of funding or it is a switch in funding from one source to another. I have a horrible suspicion\u2014and it is growing on me all the time\u2014that this levy, which is touted as being a boost and an increase for biosecurity, is, in fact, smoke and mirrors and that, actually, funding allocated to biosecurity will be flatlined and it is just the source of it that will change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWhen you drill down through the mud of the Government\u2019s Budget figures, it seems that all the appropriations relating to what used to be Vote Biosecurity and now appears to go by a number of different names are either flat or slightly reduced. There is a one-off capital injection to fund new X-ray machines\u2014we see that. Whether that is actually funded by the levy or the tax or not remains to be seen. There is a mention of some additional staff, but that comes in some of the Government\u2019s publicity material and not actually in the bill itself. Again, there is no clear indication as to whether the ongoing funding for these things\u2014for the additional staff and for the X-ray machines\u2014will be coming solely from the levy or partly from the levy, or whether the existing baseline funding from general taxation will continue or not and the levy will be on top. This we actually need to know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ELast year, I think it was, we passed the Airports (Cost Recovery for Processing of International Travellers) Bill. Airports where that levy applies will not also have the new levy. That, to my mind, adds weight to the idea that this levy\u2014or tax, as is being suggested\u2014is intended to be the primary source of funding for border inspection activities and not an additional source. Cargo inspection, as we know\u2014containers and freight coming in\u2014is already funded through levies and fees. But we also know that only about one in four, or only about 25 percent, of incoming shipping containers are actually inspected. I would like to see increases in this levy as well, if indeed the passenger funding is to be additional to existing revenue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe Customs Service website advertises inspection fees for containers for the importation of personal household effects of $330 for a 20-foot container up to $480 for a 40-foot container, plus fumigation if necessary. That is for the likes of people migrating to New Zealand or New Zealanders who have been away coming home\u2014their personal effects and so forth. So we know that all these containers are inspected because that fee is charged and paid and there is a devanning process. But the great majority of containers, general freight, are not inspected. There is an audit process where some are taken out or there will be a period of time or\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022620fbad1597b4ca1adcf0b58f2663309\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Passenger levy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225efc6a8f264d472da27bd482ba9f5b2f\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. They are not inspected, there are not enough inspectors, and I am wondering whether any of this levy is to be directed to that sort of thing. We would actually like to see the levy extended for that. That is a large barn door that has been left open. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EOur other primary concern is whether or not this levy is simply, in fact, a holiday tax. It gets back to my earlier questions around whether or not this is an additional stream of funding or a replacement stream of funding. I do not believe that the travelling public would mind too much about paying $16 on top of their air tickets to come into the country if that was going to contribute to additional safety in terms of making sure that New Zealand does not get diseases like foot-and-mouth, and so forth. We would certainly expect, and the New Zealand travelling public would certainly expect, that overseas travellers would pay that as well. The primary sector certainly expects that anyone, any person, who is a source of potential risk will pay their fair share. It is fairness and the relative fairness of who is expected to pay what that is at the heart of this matter. So we would like some clarity around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EIt is puzzling as to why we would be charging a $6 levy for people to leave the country. I know that the Minister has explained that this is to add to or cover the costs of customs for people on the way out. Customs and biosecurity, as we know, are two different things. But, again, it makes me suspicious that if we are going to charge a levy on passengers leaving the country, paying $6 towards the cost of running the Customs Service that, to me, says very loud and clear that, actually, this is a replacement source of revenue, not an additional source of revenue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2cb97044d2347298b0c585d308702f5\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: This puts $4.7 million on for departures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022223c5a760943474d979957254f5533ea\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would love the Minister to stand up in the Committee stage and spell this out quite clearly. I want an assurance from the Minister that this levy is going to be on top of existing baseline taxation funding for biosecurity and customs, not instead of. There is just too much ambiguity about it. The way the Government is spinning this thing as being great and marvellous and wonderful and additional\u2014maybe I am a naturally suspicious person, but it seems to me as if what we are going to wind up with at the end of this whole process is the same amount of money coming from a different place, and not actually an increase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EActually, most of the bill is concerned with who collects the money and what trust accounts it goes in and what records need to be kept and what penalties will apply if these rules and conditions are broken. It actually does not say anything at all about what the money will be spent on, other than Government statements around funding for biosecurity, which itself is a welcome thing. The explanatory note states: \u201CThe objective of this Bill is to ensure that funding arrangements for MPI and Customs are sustainable and the costs associated with the delivery of those activities are borne by those who directly benefit from the activities or give rise to the risks.\u201D I mean, costs being borne by those who directly benefit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ccab1c2a6c94b3ea223d1a8c497af76\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what a levy is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232a4ff1c9c714bb9bacd34e46998a0d4\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in terms of customs, Minister, I do not understand that, because, arguably, the only direct beneficiary from a customs inspection would be the Customs Service itself. Although the entire nation benefits from biosecurity inspections, the primary sector could, arguably, be called the primary beneficiary from biosecurity, but it is not being targeted by the levy at all. I am not saying that it should carry more of the cost\u2014the primary sector pays tax, and tax currently pays for biosecurity\u2014but it is a direct beneficiary and yet this levy appears to be targeting a group that is not a direct beneficiary, which, again, is confusing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThe descriptions in the bill itself talk about functions\u2014OK, I guess \u201Cfunctions\u201D can mean anything. We would like a bit of that spelt out a bit more clearly. I have another question: do cruise ship passengers get to pay the exit and entry levies four times over if, for example, their cruise ship stops in Auckland and in Wellington and in Lyttelton and at Port Chalmers? Because if the ship goes outside the 12 mile limit, arguably the passenger has left New Zealand and then come back in again and gone out and come back in and gone out and come back in. Do they get stung with a fee every time they leave and every time they arrive again? Why have we not been told these things?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EAgain, there is no mention of whether or not this additional or altered source of funding is going to be used to reinstate 100 percent screening of all incoming passengers\u2019 luggage, mail, and freight. This is something we are quite hot on. It is something that will actually make a material difference. Rearranging the beans into different-sized heaps before you count them does not actually increase the number of beans. Again, we have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022864bb292078c40bc9a025a764d4ac561\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What does Jack think?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a29e043ccf1b40f9b4bc95a5f4032a65\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014questions that are\u2014Jack and the Beanstalk\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002266e525b6a0e64fb1ac97c3dbdb9da0d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266e525b6a0e64fb1ac97c3dbdb9da0d0\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member, but his time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00221c21b7e3c4454610961463498e924731\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c21b7e3c4454610961463498e924731\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E It is with great pleasure that I commend the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3c1eaf018224b20b7e17981643530a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3c1eaf018224b20b7e17981643530a3\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call James Shaw\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00229785795bf1fe4d9ba5eab169079132d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229785795bf1fe4d9ba5eab169079132d6\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I have got a couple of questions that I would like a response from the Government side about, one of which is the question of the money. There were three press releases relating to the levy, and there is a question about whether this replaces existing money or whether it is actually new money. One of the press releases was talking about how biosecurity funding will be boosted by $24.9 million over 4 years, plus $2 million of capital funding. A second press release talked about how the Customs Service would receive a $4.7 million operating funding increase. The general release about the airport tax said that the Ministry for Primary Industries and Customs Service currently spend about $100 million a year and that the airport tax is expected to raise about $100 million a year. That would imply that the new airport tax would raise an equivalent amount to what is currently being spent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI just wanted to check with the Government. The $24.9 million boost over 4 years and then the $2 million capital funding for biosecurity\u2014does that come out of the $100 million\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022288759cd84fc467fb4b4f695bc14a3cc\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d82b826217ea4d18ab3a9ed142197bd8\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or is it additional? And the same with the $4.7 million\u2014is that out of the $100 million or is that actually new money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e32d88330884276a2ea0ee7415f497d\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: New money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a691067cc55940e8a3c413839374ddee\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAnd then the second question was around the Customs Service press release. This is relating to the privacy concern that we flagged in my first reading speech. I just wanted to read it and then get a response. \u201C \u2018The officers will use the targeting techniques that Customs currently applies to arriving international passengers to identify departing passengers of interest who are unknown to security agencies or not on an international watch list,\u2019 Ms Wagner says. \u2018Customs officers will take appropriate action at the border before a person of interest leaves the country. This could include stopping them for questioning or alerting other authorities in New Zealand or abroad. Extended-risk screening for departures will complement the existing automated and face-to-face passport checks, and the alert system already in place, and will provide an additional source of intelligence. The aim is to counter potential terrorist activity, maintain New Zealand\u2019s low risk status and contribute to international efforts to combat terrorism,\u2019 Ms Wagner says.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EFrom a Green Party perspective, we have a pretty strong civil liberties kind of strain in the Green Party, and some of that language there flags some concerns. So I would like it if, at some point during the course of the debate, the Minister would not mind just saying a little bit more about that and describing any new technologies or any risks analyses that have been done on what the implications are for personal privacy and security. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAnd then the one, I guess, that everybody is waiting for. In the Ministry for Primary Industries release it does mention that it will be \u201CExpanding our biosecurity detector dog capacity\u201D\u2014I am speaking to particular constituents here, obviously\u2014\u201Cto manage risk at the border.\u201D The Government has made a great deal about the number of people who are returning home from Australia. I just wanted to check whether those dogs are going to be beagles or alsatians, because I think beagles will be a great deal more attractive and bring more people back home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a56d4c7ec77445198396208a39d525ef\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: Labs. Customs likes labs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c899dd21eb5c4e11a4878c6591261bcd\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002269c5ceb8a60942798e44a27508e336ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269c5ceb8a60942798e44a27508e336ae\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Kris Faafoi\u20145 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u002230d5a55897cf421f9f6278bca770c6e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230d5a55897cf421f9f6278bca770c6e4\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak briefly to the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill. I believe that the questions just posed by the Green member of Parliament James Shaw are good ones. The time of this Parliament would not be being taken up asking these questions if this piece of legislation had followed the normal process. If we had the select committee process, this piece of legislation would have gone to either the Primary Production Committee or perhaps the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, and these really basic questions could have been answered. But, no, we are here at 11 minutes to 8 on a Saturday night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI know that some of the members across the other side of the House do not want to be here, but it is their own fault. It is their own fault, because this did not have to be rushed through this Parliament under urgency. Some of the very basic questions that Mr Shaw is asking could have been answered. The process has been completely backwards, and that is plain to see in the departmental disclosure report, where a simple question was asked: \u201CWere any regulatory impact statements provided to inform the policy decisions that led to this Bill?\u201D. Usually, that is something that is basic and is on the table for us so we can get answers to some of these simple questions that Mr Shaw has asked, that Mr Prosser has asked, that members from the Labour Party have asked. But the answer to that question is no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIt is quite surprising that we have got to this stage\u2014we are into the second reading of this bill\u2014and a departmental report says: \u201CA Regulatory Impact Statement (RIS) was not prepared in support of the decision to implement the policy. However, the regulatory impact of imposing a levy\u201D\u2014that is the Government\u2019s spin\u2014\u201Cand alternative options was set out \u2026 in the Cabinet paper proposing its introduction. A consultation RIS will be prepared and submitted for consideration by Cabinet when approval is sought in late May\u201D\u2014in about a week or so, well after this piece of legislation is going to be passed. You know, this is just not good enough. If this Government wants to introduce a new tax, a travel tax on New Zealanders, put it through the wringer, through the scrutiny of a select committee. But, no, it did not warn anyone. It said there would be no new taxes. So to try to get away and sweep this under the carpet, the Government puts this legislation under urgency at 10 to 8 while it thinks people are watching the Hurricanes beat the Blues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI will come to a conclusion soon, but I would just like to also make a plea to members on my side of the House: take it easy on Stuart Smith. He is a new member to the House, it is his first urgency, he is a bit tired, he has had a hard week, he let his guard down, and he got caught out telling the truth. Let us forgive him. Let us forgive him for that, because he only confirmed what we already know: this is not a levy; in fact, it is a tax. It is not the first time that the Government has used this urgency to bring in another tax. The telecommunications development levy was also a tax, and this is also a tax. Let us forgive Stuart Smith. Forgive him. But we cannot forgive Nicky Wagner. She is the Minister. She is the Minister and she let it out, also, that this is a tax. A tax is a tax is a tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister says that this tax will not make a blind bit of difference, but I do not think that is necessarily the case, because what did the Tourism Export Council\u2019s chief executive, Lesley Immink, I think it is\u2014I hope I have pronounced that correctly\u2014say a couple of days after the Prime Minister spoke to its conference? She said: \u201CClear surprise is the first reaction that there was no discussion with either the inbound or outbound tourism agencies in New Zealand and the implications for the traveller.\u201D Mr Key went along and spoke to them but did not bother telling them. What is the go there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EMr Chair, the Prime Minister also posed a pretty simple question\u2014Mr Speaker, sorry. I have got the jitters from the Committee stage, sorry, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister posed a pretty simple question. Is it a levy or is it a tax? He said: \u201CGo google it.\u201D We googled it. It is a tax\u2014end of story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00225cae05c5c5514ea4938c091df8cfcbc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cae05c5c5514ea4938c091df8cfcbc1\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS (Minister for Small Business):\u003C/span\u003E An additional $100 million to protect the biosecurity of New Zealand\u2014an extra $100 million to protect the economy of this country\u2014and, ladies and gentlemen, Labour is voting against it. Labour is voting against an additional extra $100 million to protect jobs in the region and to protect our economy. Do Labour members agree that the increase in the numbers of visitors to our country means that biosecurity risks are ever increasing? Do they agree with that? I certainly hope so, because the Labour Party policy on biosecurity says exactly that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThis levy will help to boost the capability of the biosecurity system to identify offshore threats to the many and varied production sectors across primary industries, such as porcine reproductive and respiratory syndrome and foot-and-mouth disease. This additional $100 million will protect our nation, our country, our jobs, our regions, and our biosecurity. That is what that will achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003ELabour members are actually voting against their own policy, which is on their own website. I actually think that originally they were going to vote for this. I do worry deeply. Thank you to the Greens for their support, even though they had many questions. My only concern about this is that perhaps we have done something a little bit wrong because we have got support from the Greens. But maybe, just maybe, this is the new beginning. Congratulations\u2014perhaps I am a bit early\u2014on this new, sensible approach of the Greens in dealing with sensible policies from this fine National Government. Is this the beginning of the blue-green revolution, Mr Shaw? Perhaps it might well be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EJobs in the regions, jobs across New Zealand\u2014it just shows how out of touch Labour is with the regions. It is voting against an additional $100 million to protect biosecurity, to protect our land-based industries, and to protect jobs. Labour is no longer the party of the workers; National has always been. Once again, this additional $100 million to protect regional jobs is a fine worker-friendly and job-friendly policy of this fine National Government. I commend this fine bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c17dba0e14ca42f9b9a5472fdeb9ee62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c17dba0e14ca42f9b9a5472fdeb9ee62\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E About the only impact that speech by Craig Foss made on this particular debate was to destroy James Shaw\u2019s chances of becoming the next co-leader of the National Party\u2014of the Green Party. He could well become the next co-leader of the National Party too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ECraig Foss rants and raves about the extra $100 million to protect biosecurity that this new tax that National is introducing is going to raise. What he did not say was that the National Government cut funding from biosecurity in the first place. This new tax it is introducing is to restore cuts that it made before and to restore funding for things that were previously funded out of general taxation. Now it is introducing extra taxes to pay for something that it cut previously. That is what this Government is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI want to talk about this picture, of course. \u201CNo new taxes\u201D, John Key and Bill English went around the country promising New Zealanders at the last election. But, actually, there was another part of this that is very important. Look at the little bubble above that. It says \u201CA strong economy means no new taxes.\u201D So which bit did they break? Which promise did they break?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d424c8ceb4047f9b35a8e26bb5a4f6d\u0022\u003ERino Tirikatene\u003C/span\u003E: All of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217a523e4cb464dfa9eb6dfd9d9228741\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: All of them, probably\u2014both of them. National is delivering a new tax, so it has clearly broken that promise. \u201CA strong economy\u201D\u2014it has not delivered on that one either. It has broken that promise too. This is a Government that is breaking all of its pre-election promises. \u201CNo new taxes\u201D\u2014that is not true. This is the third of three new taxes introduced in this Budget alone. It is National\u2019s first Budget since the election, and it is the first set of broken promises. Of course, we know National Party members cannot be trusted at their word. Let us just go back to just on a year ago, when John Key flew to the UK\u2014at the taxpayers\u2019 expense, without paying this tax on the way in or the way out\u2014to encourage them to remove the taxes that they have on Kiwi passengers going in and out of the UK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a971e27362f48dbab61a372a8fcbff3\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: He called them taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225070050186f248e1a9770b37f4b57063\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: He called them taxes. \u201CPrime Minister and tourism Minister, John Key, has welcomed the British Government\u2019s decision to reduce taxes for passenger flights to New Zealand. \u2018I have consistently advocated for such a change,\u2019 John Key said \u2018which will benefit travelling New Zealanders and encourage more tourists to come to New Zealand.\u2019 \u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo only a year ago, John Key was arguing that another Government should be reducing its taxes to encourage people to come to New Zealand. And how has he responded in kind? By whacking our own taxes up on them in this year\u2019s Budget. Of course, we do not know how much that is going to be. Of course, the tax changes that were made in the UK, which were welcomed by the New Zealand Government, reduced the cost to the travelling public of about $50. We do not know how much this levy is going to be. First, we were told it was only going to be about $16. Then we were told it was only going to be about $20. Then we were told it was only going to be only about $22. That is all in the space of a couple of hours. I tell you what, the longer this debate goes\u2014it will get to fifty bucks before midnight at the rate that the Government is going on that side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhen the Government said that there were going to be no new taxes, why did it not tell New Zealanders that there were a whole lot of riders on that? It was just going to try to call them something else and pretend they were not actually taxes. The Government can dress it up as a \u201Clevy\u201D but it is actually a tax. As for the reassurances that \u201COh, this is a levy. It is going to be ring-fenced. It is going to go into a fund. It is not about ensuring that the Government gets back into surplus. There are no implications for that whatsoever.\u201D, that is, of course, what people in Governments have been arguing for years about ACC, and yet the Government has kept ACC levies high\u2014artificially high\u2014in order to try to create the illusion of a Government surplus when we know that it is not going to be able to deliver one. It is certainly not going to deliver one this year, and it is highly unlikely it is going to be able to deliver one next year, because we know that Treasury has said that unless the price of milk rebounds, the surplus next year is in doubt as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo we get the Government saying that this is not a new tax. We know the Oxford English Dictionary describes a levy as a \u201Ctax raised by levying\u201D\u2014a tax raised by levying. So it is a little bit like John Key\u2019s promise that he was not going to increase GST. He will probably argue that was not a tax either, but he increased GST, despite making a specific promise down the barrel of the camera that he was not going to raise GST, and he did exactly that. So who is this new levy going to apply to? Is it going to apply to everybody travelling across the border in New Zealand? Will there be any exemptions? What about the people who barge their way through security without going through the appropriate channels? Will this apply to Gerry Brownlee? Gerry Brownlee bypasses security. Pick up the phone that he has broken off the desk and give him a call. Will Gerry Brownlee pay this particular levy? Will all of the people coming to New Zealand pay this levy? How can the current Government be trusted to give factual information on that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis is yet another broken promise by this National Government, and it is barely beginning this term in Government. New Zealanders can expect many more broken promises from the National Government, and I am sure that is what we are going to see because this Government really has no major plan or vision for the future of this country. It is tinkering around the edges. It is dealing with little bits here and there, but it is not dealing with the big issues that are actually going to result in New Zealanders earning better incomes, having better jobs, being able to afford houses, and having a higher standard of living. That is not what the Government is dealing with and trying to deliver in this Budget because it does not know how. It has not got any new ideas, it does not have a vision for the brighter future that it has promised New Zealanders, and even if it did have the goal of delivering its brighter future, it just has no idea how to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022597e1b127c684bb8acd04c22d20bb244\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022597e1b127c684bb8acd04c22d20bb244\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E I commend this Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u002298040237ac9e4a1a9c3cde685c11252a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298040237ac9e4a1a9c3cde685c11252a\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have reason to believe that the previous speaker read her speech from her notes, in contravention of the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00228504f64ad99a40108dc72f2f21ee5d1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228504f64ad99a40108dc72f2f21ee5d1b\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Humorous, but not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ced2b94fb9454a9583d7dc0cc7dfded4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 72\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 33\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 21; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c1538525441844b69d7c603e97082193\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00225acadc5d83f047bba68ebe27fcb0f58d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225acadc5d83f047bba68ebe27fcb0f58d\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for all questions in this debate to be considered as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac435369e81f40e6ab6eef6b7adc6bcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac435369e81f40e6ab6eef6b7adc6bcc\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I will put the leave in the terms that have been put\u2014all debates as one question. Is there any objection? There is no objection. So we now have all of the debates as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022244b9a1430604c30b3bc071c4ab192f9\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, and clauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022b32dbb8bb59b4e77b0c4e764f6257f54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b32dbb8bb59b4e77b0c4e764f6257f54\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This, of course, is now a wide-ranging debate because we can cover absolutely everything that is in the bill in one job lot. The first thing that I wanted to say to the members opposite is we are voting against this bill because it is a nasty, sneaky little tax that has been brought into this House with no consultation with the very industry bodies that are affected by it. That is not good policy-making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI want to go back to trust, because in 2003 the Government, in conjunction with the airline industry and the tourism industry, decided on an agreement. It was agreed that the airline industry would be responsible for aviation safety because it benefited airlines and passengers, and the Government would pay for customs and for agricultural screening because it was of benefit to the public and to primary industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe first question to the Minister in the chair is: did he go and consult with the industries that were part of that agreement that was made in 2003? Did he go and speak to the airline industry and to the tourism industry before he had work done on this bill, before this bill was brought before this Parliament? When did that consultation take place? Did he say to those in the industry: \u201CI am going to break an agreement that was made in 2003.\u201D, an agreement that the industry would pay for the aviation safety costs, and that the Government would pay for agriculture and customs costs? I want to know, if the Minister did not consult, what right he has got to come into this Parliament and override an agreement that was made between the Government, the airlines, and also the tourism industry. You see, when you treat such agreements in such a cavalier way, there cannot be trust in a Government. You cannot believe what it is going to do and what it is going to say. So, Minister, when did that consultation\u2014if there was any consultation\u2014take place? Were they warned that you wanted to bring in a tax that was going to have to be added to the fares of the passengers travelling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe next question I want to ask the Minister is: why was there no regulatory impact statement prepared for this bill? We have got the department\u2019s disclosure statement. It is dated 10 May, and it shows that it was done 11 days before the Budget. It also shows that no review or evaluation had been done on this policy. There is no regulatory impact statement, but it does say that there is going to be consultation around a regulatory impact statement later on. Why, Minister, is there not a regulatory impact statement on the Table of this House so that the members of this Parliament could look at the musings that went on when you were deciding to put a tax on New Zealanders, which will be paid by New Zealanders, but one that I do not believe was ever consulted on with the industries? When will we receive this public consultation document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe are told that there is going to be a public consultation document with a final design in October 2015, so when is it going to be available for, perhaps, this House to have a look at\u2014well, at least for the industry to have a look at? Maybe the public would want to have a look at it because, after all, they are given no input into this bill at all. There are no submissions on this bill. It was just slam, bam, here it is\u2014another tax. There was no ability to be able to have a say on it at all. So, Minister, the consultation document, or the regulatory impact analysis\u2014when will that be available to sit on the floor of this House, and when will we get to debate that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWhat we are seeing here is a Government that wants us to pass, under urgency tonight, legislation without the detail, and I am surprised that the Green Party would be voting for something that it does not know the detail of. Those members are putting their trust in a Government that has already welshed on a deal with the airline industry and the tourism industry. Why would any party put its trust in a Government that has not honoured an agreement that has been in place since 2003? We were all told: \u201CJust trust the Government. It is going to give us the details later on.\u201D We are not even sure that it will be the levy that we are being told about tonight. It may or may not be $22. I suspect that, as they work on the detail and the design of this, maybe there are a few other things that will creep in\u2014\u201COh no, we didn\u2019t mean $22. It has just gone up to $27. No, no, maybe it\u2019s $35.\u201D Why should we trust a Government that could not honour an agreement that it made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI would like to see the Regulations Review Committee look at the design of these taxes after the Government has finalised what they are going to be. I would like that committee to see whether, in fact, this is a levy or a tax that is actually doing what they say it is going to do, and the right amount of money has been taxed and levied against New Zealanders. I think we ought to insist that the Regulations Review Committee look at this. This is setting a levy tax. We have had no consultation with the public. We do not know whether it actually does cover the costs. We are told that by 2016-17 we are going to have $80 million gathered from it, and we are told it goes into a trust account and therefore cannot be used for anything else. Well, as we said, what happened to ACC? What happened to ACC? That is a dedicated levy that goes to an organisation that can spend on virtually what it likes. Why should we believe the Government when it comes to this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI believe that this Government has been incredibly sneaky with this bill. It has brought it in without talking to the industry. The Government\u2019s own Prime Minister, who is the Minister of Tourism, was two-faced to his own industry. He went to a conference and he did not tell them he was going to do this. Was it on your advice, Minister, that he did not tell them this is what was going to happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI would like the Minister to now get on his feet and explain to this Committee whether the Government consulted with the industry before it did this. Has the Government discussed with the industry the agreement that was made in 2003? When are we going to get to look at what is going to be the design and the shape of this so-called tax levy? When is this House going to be able to scrutinise that? Is the Minister prepared for it to go to the Regulations Review Committee to see whether it can determine that this is a tax that has been properly imposed on New Zealanders? None of that has been answered tonight. I agree with Mr Prosser. There is so much missing that any party would be idiots to vote for this, on trust, from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00220005aacb624240e788092a009c281dab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220005aacb624240e788092a009c281dab\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take just a short call on the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill. We heard a lot during the first and second reading speeches that, obviously from the Government\u2019s perspective, this was such an important issue for it that it wanted to put in place this levy to ensure that there was adequate funding to provide protections at our border controls. My question would be: how have we done that until now? Up until now, how have we ensured that we have adequate border protections? We have done it without this levy/tax until this moment in time. This idea that this demonstrates what a priority it is for the Government really defies belief. It has been a priority of Governments in the past, without a levy. That is not a justification for introducing something like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EMy second question is that, surely, if this was as important as the Government claims, then we would have more detail in this bill than we do right now. If it was such a priority, why have we got this shallow framework of a bill, rather than the detail that we would usually have in this Chamber when considering such legislation? So I really question whether it is the priority that the Government claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI also wanted to come to clause 5, which inserts new section 140AA. That provides that every traveller who arrives in New Zealand on or after 1 January 2016 is liable to pay a levy. So that is basically the part that says the individual liability is on the traveller. I heard one of the speakers on the other side of the Chamber claim that another rationale for us having to introduce this levy is that we have got more passengers coming here. We have got more passengers; therefore we should make those individual passengers pick up this tax or levy. But the question that arose for me, when hearing that, is that, actually, the risk has always been there. Regardless of the size of the population coming into your country, the risk has always existed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ENicky Wagner is shaking her head. I have just one reference to make to you\u2014Grey Lynn fruit fly. That came in before a levy; that came in with the number of passengers we happened to have coming through at that time. Your risk exists around whether or not you have got proper processes in place to stop that from happening in the first place. If this bill is an admission that to date we have not had proper processes in place, because we have not been able to fund them, that is a different story. But I have not heard that admission from the Government yet. My argument is that it is not about scale; it is about whether or not you are properly resourcing your people to do the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe have long had a concern on this side of the Chamber that we have not been properly resourcing our border control staff to carry out the functions we require of them, otherwise why would we have had such a massive economic threat to our horticultural sector, such as we have seen in the past couple of months? We cannot afford something like the fruit fly. It is the Queensland fruit fly; I called it the Grey Lynn fruit fly. It is the Queensland fruit fly, which has found a new cosy environment in Grey Lynn. People have recently asked me whether or not we have got rid of that problem. The answer is no. Things have gone very quiet. That is only because the fruit fly is in hibernation. It is absolutely still a risk to our economy as a whole, and one that was a massive wake-up call. We should not be reliant solely on introducing, at the last minute, these kinds of measures as being the mechanism for ensuring we have proper border controls in biosecurity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe know there has been a loss of experience in the Ministry for Primary Industries. We know that that has been a problem across the board. It has been something that Labour has continually raised, and we raise it again here tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe second issue I want to raise is really covered by Part 2 of the bill, and that is the amount of auditing that is going to have to go on, and the amount of scrutiny over whether or not the levy is being recorded properly. Who is going to follow up on that? Is that another job? How much red tape and bureaucracy is being created by this bill? What will the costs of enforcement and that auditing be? I think it is a fine question to ask of the Government, which purports to be a Government against red tape. It certainly introduces a lot of it. What is the cost of enforcing this bill? It is hard to know because of all the lack of detail, but we certainly see that there are auditing requirements. Everyone is required to keep statements, accounts, and records. Who is going to enforce that? Those are some questions. I would love to hear answers from the Minister in the chair, Nathan Guy, if he would like to respond to me. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00223514511db62349ae9ede6167f9548b1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223514511db62349ae9ede6167f9548b1c\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to start by addressing some of the points raised by Craig Foss. He was saying that Labour is voting against $100 million of extra funding, which does seem to contradict the press release that was put out saying that the current spend at the border is about $100 million and that this new tax would raise about $100 million. Is he saying that, in fact, costs are going to inflate to $200 million and that this new tax covers $100 million of that? I am assuming that he misspoke, as he did about a number of things during his speech, and that this is, in fact, just covering the additional $100 million that is currently being spent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESecondly, related to that, as I understand it, the $4.7 million operating funding that is going to the Customs Service, the $24.9 million over 4 years going to Biosecurity New Zealand, and the $2 million capital funding going to Biosecurity New Zealand is on top of the $100 million that is currently being spent. Does that mean, therefore, that the $100 million revenue that is expected to be raised by this new tax will not actually cover the full costs? The current costs are about $100 million, and then if we add that $30 million - odd, that means that the spend will go up to just over $130 million and the tax is expected to raise $100 million. So I just wanted to clarify whether this new tax is expected to cover all expenses or just current expenses. Where is the additional funding coming from, if it is not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThirdly, I just wanted to gently remind the Labour Party and Annette King\u2014she says that Labour will not be voting with the Government on the bill tonight\u2014that a few weeks back Labour voted with the Government on the Remuneration Authority (Members of Parliament Remuneration) Amendment Act. This is legislation that contained a fairly complex piece of algebra that literally no one who voted for it understood, and members completely took it on faith that it would do roughly what the Government said it would, despite the Government not actually being able to provide any kind of information about it actually doing what it was intended to do. So this kind of thing, it seems, happens a fair bit around here, but thank you for the point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI wanted to speak particularly\u2014given that we are taking this bill as one question\u2014to clause 1, the title clause: \u201CThis Act is the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Act 2015.\u201D Just to pick up a theme from earlier, we might want to consider some other options, because the dictionary definition of a \u201Ctax\u201D is a \u201Ccompulsory payment to Government to raise revenue, levied on income, property, or goods and services\u201D\u2014and the service may include entering or leaving the country, and getting your underwear patted down while you are doing it, depending on whether you see that as a service. Some other words that we might want to use here in addition to \u201Ctax\u201D or \u201Clevy\u201D are \u201Ctariff\u201D, \u201Ctoll\u201D, \u201Cexcise\u201D, \u201Cduty\u201D, \u201Cfee\u201D, \u201Cimposition\u201D, \u201Cimpost\u201D, \u201Cexaction\u201D, \u201Cassessment\u201D, \u201Ctithe\u201D, or \u201Cpayment\u201D\u2014the point being, I think, that the argument about whether to call it a levy or a tax is, frankly, redundant. In broad category terms it is a tax, and we should move on to whether we think this is of any substance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EIn terms of the argument about no new taxes and whether this is a broken promise, and so on, I think it is a fair one to have if the Government said going into an election that it would raise no new taxes and then it raised new taxes. Then you could argue that it won the election on false pretences, along with things like running a surplus and so on. But the attacks on the Government for raising this additional form of revenue do buy into the narrative that a Government raising revenue to cover its costs is somehow a bad thing. Actually, it is not all the time. There are times when we need to do this to cover our costs, and, as I said in an earlier speech, when the Government cut the tax rate for high-income earners it actually meant that revenue was going to be running below costs for many years to come, when it could have actually been running a surplus ever since. So in terms of\u2014[Bell rung]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfd6b13861b34b90a0121f9790915539\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: James Shaw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f588190951cf4c0e8ab01a241d713cf6\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: I will not take too much of your time, Mr Chair. I will just complete the thought on the narrative around whether taxes are good or bad or anything else. The reason the Greens are supporting this one is that we feel it is actually a good one, because it locates the cost with the users. It is transparent and it increases accountability, because, rather than being funded out of general taxation, it means that the revenue can rise and fall along with passenger numbers. So the cost is directly related to the activity, and it means that transparency around this is greater. So if we are going to be raising new taxes, to us this looks like a good one, and so we will continue to support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAside from the process issues, which are shocking\u2014generally the Greens are against pushing things through under urgency that are not urgent, and this does not seem in any way urgent\u2014we are in favour of this bill. We have not seen any real, substantial arguments as to why we should not pursue this course of action. But we do want some answers to those questions about whether this is $100 million worth of new funding or additional funding, and then, if the new funding that was announced in those press releases is on top of that $100 million, whether that means that this tax itself is not covering the full cost of border security, the Customs Service, and biosecurity. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u00229dd40f13c31d455bb829f15a435c1ed9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dd40f13c31d455bb829f15a435c1ed9\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I want to pick up where my colleague Mr Shaw has left off. I was not going to wade into the debate about whether this measure is a levy or a tax, because, actually, I think it is irrelevant, and, as Labour members and others have gone into in quite some detail, when you look in the various dictionaries, online and otherwise, and google them, it seems that the one is the other and the other is the one. So what it is called does not actually matter. It is significant, though, if we look at the departmental disclosure statement, at page 9. Part 4.2, about significant legislative features, asks \u201CDoes this Bill create or amend a power to impose a fee, levy or charge in the nature of a tax?\u201D, and the answer given is no. The explanation is that \u201CThe levy is not proposed to be greater than cost recovery and there will be a clear relation to the costs of the functions performed. The funds collected will be held in a Trust Account to be used solely for funding the cost of the levied services. Given this, officials consider the levy is not in the nature of a tax.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ESo whether it is regarded as a tax or a levy\u2014and there is obviously some difference in the mind of the Government, or, at least, in the minds of the officials who drafted this particular statement\u2014it raises a question that goes back to a theme that I have raised in earlier stages of this debate. When we say that the funds collected will be held in a trust account, if we, by a little stretch, presume that the consolidated account, for example, is a trust account\u2014because in a manner it is\u2014to be used solely for funding the cost of the levied services, one would presume, or I guess one could be forgiven for presuming, that the purpose of a Government raising tax at all, or raising revenue at all, through whatever means, would be to fund the cost of levied services. In other words, the things that the Government does, it has to raise money for, and I do not see that there is a difference in that regard between money being raised for a purpose specific to government and money being raised by a Government specific to a purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWhat it does get back to\u2014and this is the point I have been making, and the one that Mr Shaw picked up on as well\u2014is whether or not the $100 million that this levy, tax, fee, or whatever is intended to raise is going to be additional to baseline funding for biosecurity as it currently exists or not. This is fundamental to our support, or lack of it, for this bill. If we are talking about $100 million extra, going on top of what we currently spend on biosecurity, we are all for that, and that will swing us around. We will come in behind it and say: \u201CGood on you, Minister.\u201D The Minister has made a point, over his time as the Minister for Primary Industries, of saying that biosecurity is his No. 1 priority. We absolutely support him on that, and in fairness I think he is genuine in that. He may struggle at times, I think, to extract a sufficient degree of priority out of his Cabinet colleagues for the primary sector because their focus may be on other areas, but I think he is genuine in wanting to improve the level of biosecurity. We may disagree on the methodology by which that is achieved and the processes he intends to go through, but doubling the budget for biosecurity would make an enormous difference to whether or not New Zealand First could support this bill. I think it really does require some absolute clarity as to whether or not this levy\u2014it is a new levy\u2014is going to provide an additional stream of funding for biosecurity or whether it is going to replace the current stream of funding for biosecurity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EAgain, I come back to the point the Minister of Customs made earlier when talking about cost recovery, whereas Minister Foss and Mr McKelvie have talked about boosts. Either it is a boost or it is a cost recovery. It is one or the other. So we are talking about either another $100 million or the same $100 million coming from somewhere else. That is really quite crucial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ee755c8a92b470090ea0144fb37204a\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Extra.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284edc35e4ebe475394708262d9d68d5d\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER\u003C/span\u003E: I know, yes. People have said \u201Cextra\u201D, and other people have said \u201Ccost recovery\u201D. So it is one or the other. I wonder whether, perhaps, then\u2014if we want to go back to the title of the bill\u2014we could say that it should be called the \u201CBorder Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Additional Levy Bill\u201D. That would clarify it completely, saying whether this is additional funding or not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI also want to ask another question, and I am certainly hoping that some Government members are going to rise and take calls in this stage of the debate. Perhaps they are just leaving it for the Minister, or Ministers, at the end. If this measure is simply cost recovery and we look at some of the, perhaps, fringe pathways through which people and goods and so forth come into New Zealand, we know that about 95 percent of incoming passengers are airline passengers, about 4 percent are cruise ship passengers, and the other 1 percent are yachts, private jets, military personnel, and so forth\u2014and never mind that there are diplomatic visitors and so forth, guests of the Government, who, we already know from prior Government statements, will be exempt, because it is not appropriate to charge guests of the Government money to come in. But if we are talking solely about cost recovery, then I cannot see that it is feasible in any way to imagine that for $16 a person it warrants sending an inspector up to, say, \u014Cpua in the Bay of Islands to inspect the crew of a yacht coming in. It cannot materially or physically be possible to adequately inspect a number of people coming in on a yacht, and that yacht itself, at $16 a head. So that in itself begs the question: if the levy is not sufficient for these sorts of things, is it going to be topped up from general Government funding? And if that is going to be the case, is that going to be across the board? Can we please have some clarification from the Minister, or from one of the Government members, as to whether or not that is going to be the case. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u002246fd83916d894a8ea22a183a0c4dadd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246fd83916d894a8ea22a183a0c4dadd3\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E This is a great opportunity to take a call on this very important bill that we are debating this evening. Thank you very much for the contributions that I have heard this afternoon and this evening in the first and second readings and now in the Committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to put some balance into this, because there has been quite a focus from the left about how this is going to really harm the tourism industry. I think they have not done their research well enough. It is interesting that some of the comments that I have read are that the tourism industry in 2013 indicated that it was not opposed to a border levy. This issue has been around for quite a period of time\u2014in fact, Labour even considered it when it was in Government. What is also interesting is that the Flight Centre Managing Director, Chris Greive, said: \u201CSo long as there are real benefits for our customers and the additional fees are spent on ensuring the customer experience is as best it can be, through keeping border processes updated and investing in improvements, then we would not see these new charges as a negative.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6c96cef572648f194fa20f258b274c8\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Did you consult them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228db1a8424e2345278779d168990fc0ab\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: So I did not hear that from Annette King. I did not hear that. All I heard was rhetoric from Annette King. There is no balance in Labour\u2019s argument this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat is also missing in its rhetoric are other public comments\u2014other public comments that I have seen that Annette King might be interested in. The chairman of Kiwifruit Vine Health says it is both logical and sensible to implement a passenger surcharge that will go a long way to futureproof the cost of New Zealand\u2019s biosecurity system, currently borne by New Zealand taxpayers. That was from Kiwifruit Vine Health chairman Peter Ombler. Annette King did not make any comments about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI also want to quote the Dairy Companies Association of New Zealand, which thanked \u201Cthe Government for its commitment to responding to the changes which are altering New Zealand\u2019s biosecurity risk profile \u2026 DCANZ is encouraging the public to see this levy within the bigger picture of biosecurity for New Zealand \u2026 Biosecurity is not just concern for primary industry; the introduction of didymo \u2018rock snot\u2019 has permanently altered many waterways and affected recreation activities.\u201D So it is interesting that the Dairy Companies Association of New Zealand is straight away not only talking about biosecurity but moving into biodiversity and the fact that if we do not strengthen our borders with an increase of volume and risk, then our tourism industry is going to be affected. Annette King has not acknowledged that in 2001, when the UK had foot-and-mouth disease, it affected their tourism industry by about NZ$15 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat is also interesting are other comments I want to bring to the attention of the Committee from Horticulture New Zealand. What the Horticulture New Zealand president said was: \u201CThe good thing about this levy is that as the number of visitors increases, so will the revenue it generates, to cover the increased cost of processing passengers and the risk they represent.\u201D The Horticulture New Zealand president goes on to say that the suggested levy \u201Cis still a long way off the $58 charged by Australia, a country with similar biosecurity requirements to our own\u201D. So on the one hand we have the primary industry saying: \u201CGood on the Government for bringing this in.\u201D, and actually one of them is saying it should be even higher. We also have a departmental disclosure statement on the Table tonight, which some members have referred to, that says that the impacts on visitors are going to be low. Yes, we have got a regulatory impact statement that is going to go out with the discussion document, and that will answer Annette King\u2019s questions. That document we propose to be out in June.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAlso Annette King has raised\u2014I am not sure whether it is mythical or not\u2014this 2003 agreement. I have asked my officials to have a look and see what they can find on this agreement. They cannot actually find anything official about this agreement. What I would say is that time has moved on from 2003. Our visitor numbers are growing. Our risk profile is also increasing. This is about fairness. This is about 2015. This is about passenger numbers forecast to grow at 4 percent a year for the next 6 years. This is about focusing on risk passengers. Also, can I clear up another point that has been made\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8852f57ca2b4e618352af04e21a4263\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: And they bring nothing to New Zealand. No benefit to New Zealand\u2014$10 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb852cb8c37b4665830c2b370f15234a\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: If Annette King would give me a moment, I will try to clear it up for her. She might be interested. This is about a levy. Over the next 3 years or so it is going to generate about $100 million to $105 million for biosecurity, run by the Ministry for Primary Industries and the Customs Service. Currently, that is funded by the taxpayer. We believe it is fairer that those who are utilising those services\u201455 percent of those are foreigners\u2014should pay for the use of those services. As our volumes increase by what I have said\u2014estimated to be 4 percent, maybe 5 percent a year looking out\u2014that money will come in with that passenger. So to put it another way, as more people come into New Zealand from overseas, the funding will follow them. That means that our services will be able to continually improve and be bolstered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ECan I clear up another point for Mr Shaw, who has made, I think, a very good contribution to the debate this afternoon and this evening. Mr Shaw gets it. He gets it. He realises that this levy is about strengthening the biosecurity system. Mr Shaw gets it, because he knows that if we have a biosecurity incursion it affects our tourism industry. Mr Shaw also gets the fact that it could have an impact on biodiversity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EMr Shaw has raised another comment that I want to clarify, and that is about the money that has been allocated in Budget 2015 for the Customs Service and the Ministry for Primary Industries, which equals about $30 million. That is going to be focused in the next 4 years on further strengthening the biosecurity and customs systems. That is extra money that I have been able to get out of the Government from the taxpayer to further strengthen the biosecurity system. That is going to be focused on more detector dogs, more X-ray machines, more audits of our import health standards, and more visits to offshore countries where we bring produce and trade from, to check that they are following and adhering to the import health standards. So this is more money. This is a significant investment in the biosecurity system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EMy challenge to New Zealand First, which wants to run around the regions of New Zealand and say that it is the regional party, is to get on board with this legislation\u2014get on board and support it. The primary industries, Mr Prosser, are backing this. The primary industries realise that more needs to be done. They realise that this is about fairness. So as volumes grow, the money will increase. That means more of a focus on the biosecurity passenger system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe other important thing in this debate is to realise that this money goes into a trust account\u2014a memorandum account. It must be spent\u2014it must be spent\u2014through the Ministry for Primary Industries, Biosecurity New Zealand, and the Customs Service on the passenger pathway. That is an important point to make this evening in the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESo, in conclusion, I support this bill. It is about fairness. It is about a growing volume of passengers coming across our border. It is about a risk profile that is changing. It is about the Ministry for Primary Industries and the Customs Service being more responsive. It is about protecting our primary industries. That actually, by the way, enhances tourism, because a lot of tourists come to New Zealand to enjoy our biodiversity, to enjoy the great outdoors, and to enjoy what New Zealand has to offer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u002257db3b032b24439f99fa791538dd304a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257db3b032b24439f99fa791538dd304a\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to thank the Minister in the chair, the Hon Nathan Guy, for that, because we do get it. We do get that this is about our biosecurity and about protecting our agricultural interests, but there are a few things that we do not get. One of the things we do not get is why there were cuts to biosecurity 4 or 5 years ago and why 54 biosecurity staff members were cut 4 or 5 years ago. This is just a replacement\u2014this tax. And it is a tax, and let me tell you why I know it is a tax, aside from the Oxford Dictionary as well as the Collins English Dictionary saying a tax is a levy and a levy is a tax. I also checked the M\u0101ori dictionary, and the M\u0101ori dictionary says that a levy is a tax, and if us M\u0101ori say it, well, then it must be true. So what we do not understand is why there were cuts 5 years ago and why this is now happening, and why all of a sudden it is really important that we get more in tax to replace those services that were lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI have a few questions, and they stem from some of the comments made by the National Party members during the second reading. One was from Ian McKelvie. He said: \u201Cthe levy will not put an impost on those who cannot afford to pay it.\u201D I am not sure what that means. If people cannot afford to pay it, then of course it is going to be an impost. So I would like the National Party to explain exactly what that was meant to mean. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EAnother question I have is how much this will cost to administer. If it is going to cost $6 to fly out of New Zealand, how much of that $6 is actually going to go into the administration of it? If I can just go to the police vetting legislation that the Law and Order Committee is talking about, one of the concerns of submitters about the $7 fee for police vetting is that most of that $7 is actually going to be used to administer the fee. That is a question I have for the Minister. Exactly how much of that $6 fee to go out of New Zealand is going to be used up in administration? If the biosecurity threat comes from tourists coming into New Zealand, then why do you not just exempt New Zealanders who are flying out? New Zealanders flying out of New Zealand do not pose a biosecurity threat to New Zealand. Sure, when they come back in, I can understand that they may bring in an apple or something, such as my wife did when she came back from Australia one day and it cost us $400. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI also have got a few questions based around section 140AB, \u201CContents of border processing levy order\u201D. It is around the word \u201Cmay\u201D. It says: \u201CA levy order under section 140AA may\u201D\u2014it \u201Cmay\u201D, so it is not saying \u201Cit will\u201D. It is just saying it may \u201Cprescribe different rates of levy\u201D\u2014or it may not\u2014\u201Con any differential basis, for different persons or different classes of persons:\u201D. That is really unclear\u2014first of all, that it says \u201Cmay\u201D, and not \u201Cwill\u201D, or \u201Cshould\u201D, or \u201Cmust\u201D. It says it \u201Cmay\u201D. But what is a different class of person? I am really not quite sure what that means, and I would like the Minister to explain that. For \u201Cdifferent persons\u201D, why would one person be prescribed different rates over the other? It says it may \u201Cprescribe a maximum rate or maximum rates of levy:\u201D\u2014so may or may not? That is still unclear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe bill says it will \u201Cprovide, subject to such conditions as may be prescribed, for extensions of time for the payment of levy:\u201D. Will there be extensions of time for the payment of this levy or not? What is going to happen to people if they need to have an extension of time? That is unclear. It will \u201Cprovide for the payment of additional or increased levy in the event of late payment or non-payment:\u201D. So will there be increased levies if there is non-payment of the levy, or the tax? It may \u201Cprovide for circumstances in which levy paid may be refunded:\u201D. What are those circumstances for which the levy may be refunded? We have got no idea. It is very unclear as to what the circumstances may be that the levy would be refunded, and to whom, and under what conditions. It would be good for the Minister to explain that to the Committee. The bill may \u201Crequire that levy funds payable be held on trust in separate accounts.\u201D\u2014it may \u201Crequire that levy funds payable be held on trust in separate accounts.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI would like to know the answers to those questions. I would like to have those issues cleared up. This word \u201Cmay\u201D, or \u201Cmust\u201D\u2014it says \u201Cmay\u201D in the legislation; should it be \u201Cmust\u201D or not? So those are just a few questions, just to add to the debate, that I would like the Minister to clarify for the Committee. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022974e88f196f6404fa23be0387f1aeabb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022974e88f196f6404fa23be0387f1aeabb\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E I would just like to add further comments in addition to Mr Davis\u2019, because the amendments to the Biosecurity Act grant a very wide and broad discretion to the Minister to set the levy\u2014the rate and the conditions around that levy. It is a very, very broad discretion, and there is no legislative guidance around considerations that he must take into account. At the end of the day, the Minister can, effectively, set whatever he wants in terms of the rate. There is no control on that discretion, and that is why it is really dangerous to impose a tax through legislation under urgency in these situations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EAs an example, I would just like to seek the Minister\u2019s clarification around. As part of his discretion, it says here in clause 5(4) of the Biosecurity Amendment Bill (No 2) that the Minister \u201Cmust consult persons who the Minister believes are representative of interests likely to be affected substantially by\u201D the levy order. That is completely up to the Minister\u2014who he \u201Cbelieves\u201D has interests that are substantially affected. I am just wondering whether the Minister could advise which groups would be substantially affected, because in my mind a major group that will be substantially affected will be inbound visitors\u2014tourists. How is the Minister to consult with them? Is he going to stand at the airport in the arrivals lounge and have a survey, or have a chat, have a k\u014Drero? Because they will be substantially affected by this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIt is very unclear, but it is a very, very broad discretion that is granted to the Minister. This is a tax. It is not good practice for this Parliament to be granting broad power to a Minister to be able to impose these rates and these conditions, really, as he sees fit. I would like to ask the Minister how he intends to consult these substantially affected groups. Who are these substantially affected groups? How does he intend to do that? I know that Government members have already talked about advising on the rates and the levies, because it is true that the actual end number is unknown. We do not know the cost that will be imposed on travellers. There has been talk about $16, $22, $32, but you must also add to that other departure taxes that are also payable by travellers. There are a range of costs that are all factored in, a range of taxes that need to be considered. That is why there is just such a broad discretion given to the Minister that it is really beyond the scope. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI am also really unsure about some of the drafting in these bills, and the consequences of some of the provisions. Because if I look at the Customs and Excise Amendment Bill (No 2), there is the provision here that\u2014you have got two methods by which the Crown can currently recover the processing costs. There is the Airports (Cost Recovery for Processing of International Travellers) Act, and that legislation, I believe, allows the Crown to collect from the airport companies the cost to the Crown of setting up biosecurity, customs, and other services, including the services that are envisaged by this bill. So the Crown can collect the cost there from the airport companies. It is also talking about collecting the same costs from travellers. I know that the Government is wanting to do an exclusion, say, that airports that are currently under the former Act will be excluded from this piece of legislation. But it will lead to confusion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe easiest way I can think about it is this. Hypothetically, a person departs from Christchurch International Airport. Christchurch International Airport pays the Crown the costs of recovering and doing the biosecurity screening, under the Airports (Cost Recovery for Processing of International Travellers) Act, and it is subject to that Act. So what does that mean? Does that mean that every traveller who is leaving from Christchurch will not pay the travel tax? If that is the case, how will you administer that? How will you be able to administer all the differential rates that will apply for the two different regimes that will be at play? In one case you will have an airport company paying to the Crown the costs to process, and in this present case you will have the traveller paying the Crown the cost for them to be processed. So there are real, practical issues that I see arising out of the application of this legislation, and they are why this legislation should be referred to a select committee and it should be subject to greater scrutiny from all the relevant parties that will be interacting with this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EAs we have heard, the Minister has not consulted with the tourism industry or the airline industry. Of course you are going to have the primary industries sector clapping its hands at this legislation. Who would not? This is really good for biosecurity, and we all want strong, robust biosecurity systems\u2014absolutely. Of course the primary industries sector would say that, but it misses the point in terms of there being no regulatory impact statement. There are real practical issues here that I see that could pose some real difficulties in the application of this law. I would just like to ask the Minister how he intends to deal with all of these matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ECould I ask this: what are the chances of bringing this legislation to some sort of select committee so that some proper scrutiny and amendments could be made? Because what I do not want to see is the passage of this legislation, and then, as has occurred with some Crown minerals legislation just recently passed\u2014here we were at Parliament and the Government was back 3 weeks later, saying: \u201COh, we need to make some amendments to it.\u201D That is a very real possibility, just on my cursory glance at the legislation as it stands at the moment. That is a plea that I would make to the Minister. Let us refer this legislation to some sort of select committee review process so we can really look closely at it. Otherwise, once it is passed into law, what will we have to do again? We will have to come back in a few weeks\u2019 time and put through some more legislation to try to fix it up. That is a waste of Parliament\u2019s time and it is not good lawmaking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022 data-id=\u00220e245584cc4847bc83afe3b83fdb4a02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e245584cc4847bc83afe3b83fdb4a02\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier we heard from the Minister for Small Business and Minister of Statistics, and he is also the Associate Minister of Immigration and the Associate Minister of Transport, so he should know about this stuff. He was very, very adamant and strident, and was yelling across the Chamber that this was $100 million more for biosecurity. I agree with Richard Prosser that that would be fantastic. On top of the Budget, Minister Guy, you said there would be about $25 million of new money, but the Hon Craig Foss says there will be $100 million of new money. You have gone some way to try to tidy that for him, I think, because I think he has got it wrong. I would love to hear that there is $100 million on top of what was being spent in the last budgetary year. You can nod or shake or whatever. Is there $100 million more on top of past spending on biosecurity? I do not think there is, is there? No answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfe3347ae2174d17b2f81d3f2fe05cfa\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Do you want an answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b57d99da37824d7282ad16e3fb26f821\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING\u003C/span\u003E: I hope I will get an answer. Just a simple question: is there $100 million more\u2014as the Hon Craig Foss said, and insisted on multiple times\u2014over and above what we have had?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThe other question I have, because any more money for biosecurity is good money, is: why is there a drop for business for their importation for their biosecurity system entry levy? It is not big, but there is a drop. If I look up the Customs Service at the moment, it is $17.63, and it is just going down either to $13.15 per importation or $17.37. It is not a big drop for that part\u2014the $17.37\u2014but it is for the $13.15. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThe question, as well, is comparison. So I go to Aussie soon, and when I come back I will have a suitcase or whatever. These guys are bringing in how many containers for that? One container, 20 containers, or whatever\u2014I know there are some other fees for them; they are not big either. So is the Minister going to be able to go and say: \u201CWe\u2019ve looked out for you in business, we\u2019ve actually dropped your fee, and we\u2019ve put it on to the tourists coming in.\u201D? I think\u2014and we are supporting the bill\u2014that is right for the tourists, but I do not think there should be any reduction anywhere in terms of levies and biosecurity, so I would be very keen to see that tidied up or clarified. But it is there; I have got it from what has gone through in the Order in Council and what the current fees are. I am also interested in, as we have heard from others, the exemptions. What about the exemptions? Who is going to be exempted\u2014who, why, when, what, and what for? \u201CDifferent classes of persons\u201D\u2014what are they? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003ELeaving that\u2014I hope for some clarification around that\u2014I was very pleased to hear the Minister say that there was going to be some money specifically around import health standards. We have got the imported pork now, and 52 percent of pork that is consumed in New Zealand is imported. We know that the pork industry\u2014because the Biosecurity Act is wanting and does not have precaution in a meaningful way in it\u2014lost through multiple courts and spent millions in the process of trying to defend its sector from a slack import health standard. They are the particular questions I would like answered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EIt is good that there is more money going to the import health standard. It did not seem a hang of a lot, but there is some. We really do need answers to why businesses that are importing potentially multiple containers are going to have a levy that is very, very similar to an individual with a suitcase. I want that individual with a suitcase to have 100 percent X-rays, and it looks like you are doing that and are headed that way. I want to see more dogs coming in. I want to see more money. So are we going to have $100 million of new money on top of old money, or is it that $25 million to $30 million - ish of new money only in the past Budget? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b56dd2e6317b4307a57fd8ba250592bb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 72\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 33\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 21; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001011\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendments in the name of the Hon Nathan Guy to clause 12 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001012\u0022\u003Ein clause 12, new section 288H(2) (page 8), delete \u201Cor declaration\u201D;\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001013\u0022\u003Ein clause 12, new section 288H(3) (pages 8 and 9), delete \u201Cor declaration\u201D in each place.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d0feba8b03c44d37b690d5db963606c1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 84\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 9; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 21.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f4bbda9ac6a74c67be7cb795c01e6ffe\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 84\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 9; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 21.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e8725a575c934e7f8b940d0409d3ecf4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 84\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 9; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 21.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225c3dcdd1f2c5423b9a3ac96f195b8f21\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 84\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 9; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 21.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00220389d45234b04e10baa5a2f67f4b5b6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220389d45234b04e10baa5a2f67f4b5b6a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I will point out it is unusual for the party that is declared the winner of a vote to ask for a party vote on the question, but it is not outside the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe Committee divided the bill into the Biosecurity Amendment Bill (No 2) and the Customs and Excise Amendment Bill (No 2), pursuant to Supplementary Order Paper 79.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e607fc3a75342ecb99a1a20561ab4d3\u0022\u003EBiosecurity Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e607fc3a75342ecb99a1a20561ab4d3\u0022\u003ECustoms and Excise Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f8fcc6a36ea47889d19c84a7b0ee08f\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u00228089b3c125cf495ea1a23aa5810705d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228089b3c125cf495ea1a23aa5810705d1\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Biosecurity Amendment Bill (No 2) and the Customs and Excise Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a third time. We have had a very robust debate this afternoon and this evening, and I thank the contribution from the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EPrimary sector leaders, as I have mentioned this afternoon and this evening in the House, are welcoming it, and some are even calling for a higher levy, similar to Australia\u2019s. I know that some tourism commentators are saying it will reduce the actual tourist numbers coming into New Zealand, but I doubt that their concerns will actually materialise into too much, when we look at those forward projections of tourism growing at about 3 to 4 percent a year, potentially more, over the next 4 to 6 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThese tourists who come to New Zealand come to enjoy, in part, the great outdoors. Our biodiversity relies on a very strong biosecurity system to avoid pests and diseases entering New Zealand. We have had numerous examples where they have entered, and didymo, of course, is one that is pretty topical and that has affected many rivers in New Zealand. Of course, that does not go down well with our clean, green image that we like to promote our country on. The fundamental principle behind the introduction of the border clearance levy is that it is fairer that travellers who generate the need for these border clearance services contribute to the cost of these activities. Over half of the cost of the levy will fall on foreign tourists, which the Government feels is appropriate. The levy will put border services on a sustainable footing by allowing funding to increase as passenger numbers rise. This is fairer. It is more responsive to managing the risk at the border, and our officials at the border will continue to provide quality services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThere is still much to do before we implement this on 1 January 2016: a public consultation period, submissions to be analysed, deciding on how the levy is to be collected, what the final rate will be, then striking a levy order, and beginning to educate travellers before we move into 1 January next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIn summary, I am very proud of this legislation. I am very proud of the contribution that the National Government has made in Budget 2015 to strengthening biosecurity, and also of the contribution that has been made from customs in Budget 2015. The levy makes sense. It is about fairness and also, importantly, it is about a contribution for everyone who wants to be involved in biosecurity to get on board and engage in the Biosecurity 2025 strategy, which is out there soon and is to be widely consulted on. So there is a lot happening in this space, and that is why it will continue to be my No. 1 priority as Minister. I commend this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00228a0e7db051f84fcda0b3e76bdd33ce20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a0e7db051f84fcda0b3e76bdd33ce20\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak in the final readings of this legislation, which has now been divided into two. We are disappointed, on this side of the House, because these bills impose a tax, and that is very clear. It has been established throughout the debate. It has been acknowledged by members on the other side\u2014two members on the other side. This is the imposition of a tax\u2014a new tax\u2014and we are doing it under urgency. We are doing it in a rushed manner with no public consultation, no scrutiny, no engagement with affected parties, and there is no reason for that because the Minister has just acknowledged that he is about to conduct public consultation on what the levy fee should be, and all the conditions that he might impose around it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EUltimately, it will be his decision as to what he recommends, and what travellers will actually be charged, but why go through this process in such a rushed manner now when he is already intending to go through a consultation process virtually immediately? I think it is just all around the wrong way. It is poor governance from this Government\u2014sorry, it has been a very long day, Mr Deputy Speaker; ha, ha! It is poor from this Government, and yet again it is another broken promise, as we have established. And it has been acknowledged on both sides of this House that this is a tax. The Government promised no new taxes, and it has flip-flopped on that, and here we are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EHere it is imposing a tax that will hurt ordinary travellers. Every Kiwi who wants to travel\u2014who wants to leave our fine shores and go on a holiday and go and visit loved ones\u2014will be struck with this charge. Likewise, our important tourism industry\u2014all our international visitors who bring a huge contribution to our country\u2014will face an additional charge. We do not really know the impacts, but we know that in other jurisdictions there is a reduction in air traffic numbers and the like through the imposition of such levies. That is why our tourism industry has fought it so hard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EOn the flip side, of course we want strong biosecurity systems. That is a given, given the nature of our economy and our reliance on the primary sector. It is no surprise, then, that the primary sector industries are all applauding this tax. They are not having to foot the bill; travellers will foot the bill. But it need not be the case, because the services that have been provided, through biosecurity screening and the like, have always been supplied by the Government through the taxpayers as a whole. That should continue to be the case. Unfortunately, what we are seeing is this arrogant Government pushing ahead, imposing a tax, and breaking the promises that it has made to the nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe are also concerned about the impact and the application of the legislation. It is hastily drafted. We do not really know whether it will do everything that it is intended to do. There could be unintended consequences\u2014it has been rushed through that fast. We do not really want to be back here in a few weeks\u2019 time trying to fix it up by putting through another piece of legislation. But that is what happens when you do things under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ELastly, I want to take Minister Wagner up on her offer to show me around the Joint Border Management System. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d72742305ba147e8a9f8fae16b2ae9ed\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: Ah! Good. I\u2019ll take you for a visit. We\u2019ll go and have a look.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246f044923c22482cb71cb36577773ef2\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, yes indeed. The Joint Border Management System\u2014the $100 million lemon. We are still waiting to see the full functionality of that IT project. We are still waiting to see it. The due dates keep getting pushed out. The price tag keeps going up and up and up, and we do not know the full extent of the functionality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe do not really know what benefits it is actually providing to the Ministry of Primary Industries. How does it help biosecurity screening for passengers? What happens? Yes, it is great that there are 2 million entries into a Trade Single Window, but what happens beyond that? Where is all the sophisticated risk and intelligence screening? That was the core purpose of the Joint Border Management System. That is what it was intended to do. Then, to also retire the legacy systems\u2014those old, 20-year-plus computer systems, which are still chugging away. Our whole primary industries are resting on these old, 20-year-old IT systems, which are still having to carry the load, because we do not know what the Joint Border Management System has produced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EAnd why do we not know? Because it is shrouded in secrecy. The Minister will not tell us what is going on. The Minister has been in dispute with IBM. They have had to renegotiate the contract, they have had to reset the milestones, they have had to reprice everything, they have had to go, cap in hand, asking for more money, and we still do not know what they have delivered. So, Minister Wagner, I would really like to take up that opportunity to visit because I want to know what the Joint Border Management System is, what has actually been delivered, what is behind the velvet curtain, and is it actually doing what it was intended to do, when we have paid an investment of over $100 million into it? By all accounts it is just another Novopay that you want to keep under a shroud of secrecy, to hide behind lawyers and the like, and dress it up with a whole bunch of gobbledegook technology language. We want to know exactly what we will get for that $100 million-plus investment, whether it will actually be delivered on the due date or keep getting pushed out, and whether the price tag will keep expanding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThose are my concluding remarks. We do oppose this bill. We oppose the imposition of this tax. We oppose the fact that this Government has, yet again, misled the country and gone against the undertakings that it has given to the public, and now, travellers from far and wide, and anyone who wants to go on a trip, will soon be facing another hefty increase to their travel costs. That is a very unfortunate circumstance. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5d7a00c589a443287457a1f4dbe1f85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5d7a00c589a443287457a1f4dbe1f85\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E It is with enormous pleasure that I rise to support these bills that will establish the border processing levy. I want to start by acknowledging the questions from the member Rino Tirikatene and say, yes, I am very happy take you to see the Joint Border Management System to see how successful it is and how well it is working. At the same time I am very happy to offer you a free, complimentary full body search, if you would like to take that up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders have told us that they want a safe border. This levy will cover the costs of managing our border efficiently and well. It will cover the costs, and only the costs, of managing our borders. It is to protect us against illegal travellers and the illegal goods that they carry with them\u2014drugs, firearms, or objectionable material. It is to protect us against biosecurity risks\u2014things like fruit fly and didymo and, of course, the biggest threat of all to our economy, foot-and-mouth disease. I think it is really interesting, and I would like to point out to Mr Prosser, that, yes, good biosecurity will protect our agricultural industries, but it also protects our tourism industry. As we have heard, when they had the foot-and-mouth outbreak in the UK it cost nearly \u00A38 billion\u2014which is about NZ$15 million\u2014in terms of travel and tourism costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI do want to add to the Hon Nathan Guy\u2019s discussion in terms of the regions. The regions are the places that provide our agricultural exports. The regions are often where the people who operate our tourism industry live. So if we want to look after our regions we need to impose this levy at the border. I just want to say: let us forget about the semantics\u2014tax or levy, levy or tax. Forget about the semantics\u2014this payment is all about cost recovery, and only cost recovery, at the border. And it is about choice, remembering that only 42 percent of the people who go across our borders are New Zealanders. Every traveller will have to pay to go across the border. Everybody will have to pay the levy, but they will pay it only if they choose to use our border services\u2014only if they choose to use the services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EAnother question that Mr Prosser was asking me was how we are going to collect this money. The key issue here, and it does reflect on what the member Jacinda Ardern was talking about, is to make the collection of this border clearance levy as simple and as easy as possible. To do that we are proposing to use existing payment systems. The airlines would pay a monthly lump-sum payment to the Civil Aviation Authority, and the cruise ship operators would pay the Customs Service. These funds would then be allocated to the Customs Service and the Ministry of Primary Industries. For other customers, such as the people who travel on private yachts or aircraft, the levy will be collected directly from them as they enter and depart New Zealand. Again, the member Steffan Browning was concerned about the cost of managing the border for these private yachts. We do that now. We make sure that every yacht is processed correctly at the border.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EFinally, for Mr Shaw, I do not think he needs to be concerned about how we manage the intelligence at the border. There will be no changes to our normal customs procedures. We have to have a face-to-face check against their documentation, and that also reflects why there is a cost going in and going out, whereas only arrivals have to do biosecurity. Whether people are going in or out, we have to have a face-to-face check at the border.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESo, finally, just to recap on why this levy is good for New Zealand and New Zealanders, it is flexible and it is futureproofed. As traveller numbers increase, so will the levy increase and, interestingly enough, that is not just about numbers. As these numbers are increasing, there is a greater diversity of types of travellers who come across our borders; there is greater complexity at the border, and those funds will gather so that we have the resources to manage that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EWe certainly want to make sure that our borders are efficient and effective. We do not want to see the sort of congestion that you might see in Los Angeles or Miami. It is fairer. This levy is fairer because it applies to the people who use the services and it applies to the people who provide the risk to us. Just like the system that we have for goods, travellers will pay their way to get through the border.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EFinally, it is fit for purpose. It is international best practice to have a levy at the border. The same principle is used right around the world. The only difference is that our levy will be more cost-effective, at about $20, whereas Australia is at least double that, the UK is over five times that, and also Canada and the US. At the moment, New Zealanders are in a lose-lose situation. They pay all the costs at our border for international visitors, and then have to go and pay the costs at other people\u2019s borders\u2014lose-lose. So, basically, I really support this bill. It is good for New Zealand and good for New Zealanders. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002298d724d8c6b449dc877345c851372adb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298d724d8c6b449dc877345c851372adb\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise to speak on the bills divided from the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill because I want to put my point of view to the general public about what this is really about. This is actually really about the Government collecting more tax money because it cannot balance the books. That is what this is really about, and it is my pleasure to tell the public that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House we are very serious about biosecurity and about border security\u2014so much so that through 9 years of our Labour Government, the last Labour Government, not once did we put in an arrival tax or a departure tax. Why was that? We did not need to because we know how to run the economy. We know how to make a surplus. These bills are about collecting more money so that the National Government can scrape and crawl up to a minor surplus next year. It promised it this year and has failed. It has failed seven times to deliver a surplus, and that is what this legislation is really about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EWe have heard from the previous speaker, Nicky Wagner, that New Zealanders are in a lose-lose situation. Well, sorry Minister, but you cannot have it both ways. Here are some facts: international visitors spent $10.3 billion last year in the New Zealand economy, including $700 million in GST. Well, when we were the Government we managed the whole economy and paid for border security and biosecurity through the taxes like the $700 million that had been collected through GST. The fact of the matter is that the Government is unable to do that, and it should fess up that the border levy is a tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ECan I also mention the lack of detail around exactly how much is going to be charged? We are hearing figures like \u201Cabout $6\u201D and \u201Caround $16\u201D. This paper here says it will be around $36 for a return journey, and it says that is lower than Australia\u2019s, but we do not know that for a fact. James Shaw in his contribution criticised the Labour Party for voting for a bill that actually had the formula within it. Well, the formula for this, for the benefit of that member, is not in here, and we do not know it and they are voting for it. How can that be right? We need to have clarity around exactly how much people are going to be charged at the border to come into our country. You know, that is kind of fundamental.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe Government has got the process in the wrong order. It is in the wrong order. You do the legislation after the consultation, not before. You know, give the public the opportunity to be consulted on all parts of these bills, not just a little bit; not just a bit here and agree that we are going to pass this bill and we will let you know the detail later\u2014trust us, we know what we are doing. Well, if the public were to trust you, then you would not have cut KiwiSaver eight times\u2014and we have been through that legislation today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI suspect that there is probably going to be a statutory amendment bill coming up because that is what happens when you rush legislation through. People are not consulted, especially when they are told\u2014as we see in the sign my colleague held up\u2014there are no new taxes. Well, you know, when it looks like a tax, sounds like a tax, guess what? It is a tax. It is a tax, and so much so that members opposite got a little bit confused and started referring to it as a tax. And they are right. That is exactly what it is. I take this call to speak out against it and I disagree with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2bfbf02506d42c88a4d84c2d34fd64e\u0022\u003EAlastair Scott\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed793269c1f348b99ff8e66f2f7f7f39\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I anticipate the point of order. Yes, the sign should be removed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261dbc6c1e12a441eb620e8e028fd84d9\u0022\u003EAlastair Scott\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt, but my understanding is that the member can use\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2eab8242fd84453bdaafea16da73dce\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have dealt with the point of order. I anticipated your point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a8255e9aac74263aec2d78499136a6e\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. So, finally, I would just like to say we oppose this bill for all of those reasons, and I think that once again the Government has got it wrong. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022e70054b0a06243348499f03bed5aa3d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e70054b0a06243348499f03bed5aa3d6\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E The Hurricanes are dominant, the New Zealand cricketers are dominant, and the National Party and its allies have been dominant for the last 3 days. I have much pleasure in commending this very pragmatic piece of legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022 data-id=\u00225bfa669d51cc429ab59fb0f672d2be3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bfa669d51cc429ab59fb0f672d2be3b\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am not going to be that fast. I am pleased to be speaking to this legislation arising from the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill. It is very good to see tourists paying their way towards biosecurity. I am disappointed that we are not having $100 million in new money on top of old spending\u2014very disappointed with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThere has been a considerable number of incursions. There are continuous incursions\u201430 to 40 a year, we hear\u2014and each one of them could cost our primary industries, which are the backbone of this economy, and which will remain the backbone of this economy for a very long time, probably for ever. We need to be putting this extra money in. It needs to be extra money. However, getting a move on, and getting further contribution, is excellent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EWhat we really need, though, is the Government, that front bench, not holding back a real increase in spending on biosecurity. We need that. We need it very, very urgently so that we can speed up incursion fix-ups and repairs when things do get in, but, better still, to increase those inspections to six-sided on the containers, and to get business paying its fair share by increasing the levy on business as well, not just on tourists coming in and out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI think the noise on that side suggests that there was an imminent increase in their excise tax, but there is no imminent increase in the excise tax. The people barracking from the left-hand side of the House will get their drink in due course and very soon. So we will support this bill. We would love to see a lot more money going into biosecurity. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u00220b195663b27e4189b150e50d4e6a4b08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b195663b27e4189b150e50d4e6a4b08\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am disappointed. I am disappointed because at the outset of this process, I really wanted to be able to support this legislation arising from the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill. I really did. I genuinely did. We have got to the end of it, and I cannot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EMy colleague Mr Browning put his finger on the reason, and put it quite succinctly as to why. It comes down to whether or not this is actually additional money. It turns out that it is not. If it was, if we were talking another $100 million of extra money on top of what we currently spend on border protection, we would be all in favour of it. I asked several times through the course of the stages of this debate for a straight-out confirmation, or otherwise, from the Ministers involved as to whether or not this was additional funding. I did not get a yes. We got some fudging and some smoke and some mirrors and a lot of indication that, actually, all we are doing is shifting the funding stream from one place to another.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EOn the face of it, yes, it is about fairness. We agree that it is all about fairness. It is fair that those who pose the risk should pay for the risk. We do not actually have an issue with incoming passengers paying a biosecurity levy, if that was what it was, or a tax\u2014call it what you want. And do you know what? I do not believe that \u201CJoe Public\u201D the international traveller would care all that much about paying $16 to come here, either. I do not think they would notice, frankly, on top of several thousand money units from wherever you are coming from in the world to buy a ticket to come to New Zealand, which is as far away from anywhere as you can get; another 16 bucks is neither here nor there. It is embedded in the ticket and they will not notice. That itself is not the issue. The issue is whether that $16, which was going to conglomerate and become 100 million bucks, is going to be extra money for biosecurity or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWe have heard that Kiwifruit Vine Health, Horticulture New Zealand, the dairy companies\u2014all these companies are fully in favour of it. And I do not blame them. I do not blame them. I think they are supporting this because they believe they are getting another $100 million of extra funding and, actually, they are not. Actually, all they are getting is some travellers paying what they used to pay out of tax. That in itself may be enough of an enticement for them to support this. They might think \u201CWell, OK, here\u2019s 100 million bucks or whatever it is that the country spends on biosecurity coming out of the travellers\u2019 pockets, not out of my pocket as a primary sector business person.\u201D That might be enough to make them happy, but, actually, I think they are excited about this because they think \u201CWow! All of a sudden we are going to get the extra funding for biosecurity that we have needed and wanted for a long time.\u201D And I think they are going to be sorely disappointed when they find out that, actually, it is the same amount of money; it is just coming from a different source.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI could be wrong. I will say this now. If we arrive at this point in the cycle next year when we have the Budget, and we look at the figures as they have been allocated and as they have been spent, and we look at the spend on biosecurity, and we look at this levy and the money that has come in from it since then, or the year after\u2014however long it takes, however long it takes to get there\u2014and we discover that here is the amount of money that we were spending and here is the amount of money that we have spent, and all of a sudden there is this massive increase, I will eat a big slice of humble pie. But I do not think I am going to be eating that slice of humble pie, because I do not think we are going to find\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022101421113c86481bb920913b31969dbe\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: You might as well have the whole pie!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022326bc4be4c434707990533bb187ec066\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here we go\u2014Mr Bennett. It must be getting late. It is approaching the witching hour and the bats are out in the belfry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI am not going to be eating that slice of humble pie, because that extra money is not going to be spent. The Minister talked about New Zealand First getting in behind the regions. Well, we are in behind the regions, and part of us being in behind the regions is me standing here explaining to the regions that, actually, this thing that you are being sold as a big increase, as a big, massive new pot of money, is not that at all. All it is is that it is being taken from here instead of being taken from there. It is the same amount of money. We are not going to get the 100 percent inspection of all passengers, all luggage, all mail, and all freight. We are not going to get the inspection\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022858e6e9ffc5c4739900f445f605b2e07\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: Dogs sniffing away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d09318809e224841a3d03959723ff4b5\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we are getting some more sniffer dogs, but we lost a whole bunch of sniffer dogs in just the last couple of years, so perhaps we are getting back up to where we were when we had just an insufficient number of sniffer dogs instead of a massively insufficient number of sniffer dogs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWe are not going to get all our shipping containers inspected. Arguably, you could say that the number of shipping containers and freight coming into the country provides a far greater biosecurity risk than passengers coming in on cruise ships and aeroplanes. But, as it stands, about one in four shipping containers gets inspected, and after this levy is imposed, about one in four shipping containers will get inspected. So those risks will carry on coming in. They will carry on coming in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThere is the issue of urgency, which has meant that we have not been able to delve into this matter as closely as we have needed to. There will be a process of consultation from here on in, and we will design this levy, and that will be all well and good. But, actually, it should have happened beforehand. We have been through that. That is another aside. The outgoing levy\u2014again, this comes back to the issue as to whether this is new money or whether it is just a different source.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWhen the Minister of Customs says that it is going to support customs activities for people leaving the country, well, that is fine, but she also talks about cost recovery. So there is some money that has been coming out of general taxation to run the Customs Service so that you can walk out through the border and get your passport stamped or have the machine read it, and now you are going to be paying $6 for that. That dosh that was being spent by the Government on that is not coming from that any more; it is going to come from the levy but, actually, nothing changes. There is no additional funding going into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d1f6506550446778e4b5cf5293fa8d2\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Would you say that again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022196d1207c18e4576901d311f6b42b9bb\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER\u003C/span\u003E: There is no additional funding going into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257eaf1f7d6404c0ba540f2a21db1d3d7\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: No, the whole thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b3f981122634da0b9f8b9ac70af6e34\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER\u003C/span\u003E: The whole thing from the start? You will be able to watch it later on, on In The House, Mr Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI am going to wrap up by saying that I am genuinely disappointed because, as I say, we went into this process really with the hope that we were going to be able to support this legislation, really hoping that we were going to discover that we are getting an extra $100 million for biosecurity\u2014Callooh! Callay! It is Christmas. But, actually, we are not getting an extra $100 million for biosecurity. All we are doing is changing where it is coming from, from one place to another place. Biosecurity is going to be the same. We are not going to get extra boots on the ground. We are not going to get the 100 percent inspection that we need. We are still going to be at risk. The incursions are still going to be coming in. We are still going to be faced with things like fruit fly. Foot-and-mouth ain\u2019t going to go away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221936ee008ee64902bebd87286de75ac1\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Border Patrol.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce60ea6c492f4d9f941e632e9b0d9f95\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, as Mr Mark says, you just need to watch Border Patrol and see where the risks are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EThis legislation is not the silver bullet. I would go so far as to say that it is disingenuous. If the Minister had come out, if any of the Ministers had come out, and said: \u201CYes, we absolutely guarantee that this is $100 million of extra money, not just money coming from one place instead of another place.\u201D, we would have been able to support it. But it is not. It is smoke and mirrors. We cannot support this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022d59b92cae242450d8cf8ff9d89b6dce6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d59b92cae242450d8cf8ff9d89b6dce6\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E With great pleasure I commend this legislation to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022b35cb404ab354c339e40a562dca585de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b35cb404ab354c339e40a562dca585de\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to be able to stand and deliver my 23rd and final speech of this urgency session. I would like to start by saying to the Government that if you want to introduce urgency on matters that are, frankly, not urgent, then you can sit here and listen to it. You can sit here and we will spin this out. This is punishment for introducing all of those bills, none of which were urgent, none of which had to be introduced under urgency. So you can just sit here and listen. It is regrettable that this legislation has been brought in under urgency with no ability to invite submissions. I completely agree with the Labour Party on that point, and the Green Party has consistently fought against the use of urgency for things that are not urgent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe have heard comments both for and against the legislation from various businesses and industry associations but not within the normal boundaries of the proper legislative process, and that is unfortunate. I have been in business for quite a long time and, frankly, I never met a business that did not like the Government paying for its costs. I do not want to be flippant with people\u2019s concerns, but when you look at the international comparisons and you consider that the level of this new passenger tax will be under 1 percent of the cost of travel, on balance those concerns seem to be unfounded. This is a good way to raise revenue to cover this cost. It is transparent, it increases accountability for the use of that money, and it directly ties revenue and costs to each other. It internalises a cost of the industry that had previously been externalised to the New Zealand taxpayer. Part of the good news about this is that somewhere between 50 and 60 percent of the revenue here will be paid for by foreign visitors. So you can actually see this as a new form of foreign exchange earnings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe level of the new passenger tax is well below the international average. It creates a mechanism that we can use in the future for funding the Department of Conservation estate or to help out local authorities that currently carry a lot of the cost of infrastructure or marketing for tourism. The Greens have consistently been calling for more money for better biosecurity for many, many years, and we have been calling for new revenue streams to pay for it. So the Greens are very happy that National has listened to us, after all of this time, and we are very happy to support National\u2019s new passenger tax. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfe2bb5465e741edbe86789225205a62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfe2bb5465e741edbe86789225205a62\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I was expecting another National Party MP to get up and tell us why this was such a wonderful bill, but those members have given up. They have completely given up. We have exhausted them, and they have realised that they have got nothing positive left to add to the debate tonight, because they know that they are on the wrong side of this debate and they know that the public have found them out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis bill, the \u201CBorder Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Tax Bill\u201D, is a metaphor for this Budget and this Government. First of all, it is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. The Government has been telling us all night that this is somehow going to raise more money for biosecurity\u2014the money raised is going to be applied to biosecurity, and we are going to have a wonderful, new, more robust biosecurity system because of the money raised from this. But that is not true at all. This money is not all going to go towards biosecurity or, at least, the money raised here is simply going to replace money that has been spent on biosecurity before. Parties on both sides of the House have made a priority of biosecurity for years. There is nothing new about this Government talking about biosecurity being a priority. It is a priority for the Government and it is a priority for us, because we know that biosecurity is so fundamentally important to our economy. It is pure smoke and mirrors. There is nothing in the way of additional funding for biosecurity as a result of this. Just like the rest of the Budget, this bill is smoke and mirrors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ESecondly, it demonstrates a Government in absolute disarray. Government members have not been able to tell us tonight whom this new tax is going to apply to and who is going to pay this new tax. They have not been able to tell us what it is going to be spent on, and they have absolutely no idea how much this tax is going to be. They are passing a new tax under urgency at quarter to 10 at night and they have got absolutely no idea how much it is going to be. On Thursday it was going to be $16; then by the first reading speech tonight it was going to be $20; by the second reading speech tonight it was going to be $22\u2014they have no idea. This Government is in absolute disarray because it cannot honestly come to this House. It has come to this House and it is implementing a new tax without knowing who is going to pay it, what it is going to be spent on, or how much it is going to be\u2014a Government in disarray. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWhat this is, of course, is a new tax. Remember the promise\u2014remember the promise: \u201CNo new taxes\u201D. Look at that lovely picture of John and Bill there, smiling lovingly into one another\u2019s eyes and promising the country no new taxes. Well, right through this Budget we have had three new taxes. It is the Government\u2019s first Budget after the election\u2014the election where it promised no new taxes\u2014and this Budget has introduced no less than three new taxes. Why has the Government introduced three new taxes? Because it is failing to get the books back into surplus. This is not new money for biosecurity; this is freeing up other money so that the Government can desperately clutch at any straw available to try to get the books back into surplus. That is the truth of this. That is what is going on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a4adc9019de4fffbe17083f34da9850\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s get a clutch of that hair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e07714c93c3439291a848df26bc28b0\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Hey, Simon Bridges can talk about hair as much as he likes. Half of the country\u2019s oil production resides in the hair of that man. No wonder he is the Minister for it\u2014he is its primary consumer. This is a new tax, and the reason we have got this bevy of new taxes from\u2014oh, he does not like it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022394dc8de40fc4756b1dafb8c5bd00bb6\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I take personal offense at those comments. I have been getting a lot of good comments about this new hairdo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1e4cd2a8deb40a6af0c6e1e74e513e8\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, dear. Government members do not like it all, do they? They have got to find any way to try to interrupt a speech that actually points out the truth of this Budget, the Budget that introduced three new taxes after they promised no new taxes. Any little way that they can to squeak the numbers back into surplus\u2014the surplus that we have got to wait until next year for, just like we had to wait until last year. This bill is a broken promise, just like the rest of this Budget. This bill is a broken promise and it is a sneaky new tax, which is what this Budget is all about. New Zealanders have seen through it. New Zealanders have absolutely seen through this Government. It promised no new taxes. It promised to get the books back into surplus. Promises, promises\u2014always around the corner, always next year. You have got to wait, wait, wait under this Government, because this has been the Budget of broken promises and sneaky new taxes. This bill is an absolute metaphor for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis Government is in absolute disarray. It has had 7 long years to get the books back into surplus. It was nine surpluses on this side of the House and none\u2014not one\u2014on that side of the House. 9 nil\u20149 nil. That is the truth of it. That is the truth of it. The people of New Zealand are coming to understand that when it comes to economic management you cannot trust the National Party to run the Government books back into surplus. You cannot trust the National Party on its election promises, because it will promise one thing\u2014it will promise no new taxes and then it will introduce three, just like it promised not to put GST up and then put GST up. No one can trust that Government any more\u2014no one can trust that Government, and this bill is just a metaphor for the whole thing. Of course we are opposing this bill. We are opposing the whole Budget, because it is a broken promise to the people of New Zealand. They can see through it. This is step one towards the end of this Government and a Labour-led Government after 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277333e3c-5658-4149-9cad-262a0deed378\u0022 data-id=\u0022099507f1d2c941e8aa687f2f278a918a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277333e3c-5658-4149-9cad-262a0deed378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022099507f1d2c941e8aa687f2f278a918a\u0022\u003ETODD BARCLAY (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E My heart goes out to the previous member who spoke, Iain Lees-Galloway, given that he cannot hold up a picture of his leader, Andrew Little. He is having to hold up a picture of John Key and Bill English\u2014your political heroes. That is why I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f79b6a8d07b741efad70d80d210cb647\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f79b6a8d07b741efad70d80d210cb647\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E Tonight we have seen the Labour Party, which has been so full of dictionaries and rhetoric that it has forgotten the purpose of what these bills are all about. We have also seen Mr Prosser over there, who knows exactly what is good for him and biosecurity in the regions, but he cannot get his party to stomach it. And we have had an absolutely commendable presentation from the Greens, who know exactly what is good for them. I commend these bills to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224185cd54ef16497d84eea5e4f953385e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Biosecurity Amendment Bill (No 2) and the Customs and Excise Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 72\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 33\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 21; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cceaed3f06114eb58741ee1a4f6db834\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022807a1e835b2041b59470d6dcc3950718\u0022\u003EUrgency\u2014Reflections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00222b04cd53b7e74481b66b6bdf25b01645\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b04cd53b7e74481b66b6bdf25b01645\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, it is a breach of convention for Speakers to ever be able to grade or rank the speeches that have occurred in the House. I would like to make a few reflections, though. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EWe have seen a number of firsts in the House. We have seen the bestowal of a new nickname on a certain member; I think \u201CThe Professor\u201D might stick. I must say that I kind of like \u201CBenson and Hedges\u201D, and I see there has been an amicable separation, neither of them wishing to inhale each other\u2019s second-hand smoke and mirrors. We have seen the ejection from the House of a certain member, making his mark as the long-suffering Deputy Speaker\u2019s first expulsion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe \u201CDr Michael Cullen Prize for Irrelevant History Lesson\u201D goes to Chris Hipkins and the Belgian royal family. The \u201CI\u2019m So Pleased to Be Here in Urgency\u201D prize goes to Deborah Adams, Chamber officer, who was ecstatic this morning when I arrived. She just said: \u201CI just love urgency.\u201D The \u201CJill Pettis Prize for the Most Persistent Interjections\u201D, with 15 repeats of the same phrase in a 5-minute Committee stage speech, goes to David Clark. I woke myself up this morning at 4.15 screaming something about \u201Cthe worst in 50 years\u201D. The \u201CAsenati Lole-Taylor - Paul Quinn Prize for Volume in a Speech\u201D goes to Iain Lees-Galloway, which is self-evident. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI want to extend our thanks to Roland and Mary and their teams, the security staff, the Chamber officers, Hansard, and the cafeteria staff for their extended duties. My fellow Speakers would like to join with me too in thanking you all for the spirit in which you have engaged in the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201505213216bb282b4243e8b53ebf29679ec996001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.52 p.m. (Saturday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"