"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bdf8568004674ac2ba984dd518d24e55\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 24 JUNE 2015\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c2b702b6804e445eac7ecf07c8f2ca67\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 24 JUNE 2015\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022057c3950553e4765917055c0905ae08e\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022130c1dbb42684bb598af0bb3129288b1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1 to Minister, 23 June\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6d2a25c53e4444b8d5f042728bc81d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6d2a25c53e4444b8d5f042728bc81d6\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I seek leave of the House to make a personal explanation to correct an answer I gave to oral question No. 1 yesterday, 23 June. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209f0bbb817a7430cb1558d119e44224e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022922d905f0c304583b781c5dd6ccd2986\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: In the House yesterday in response to oral question No. 1, asked by the Rt Hon Winston Peters as to whether my office also told M\u0101ori Television that I, as Minister, \u201Cwas prepared to appear on that programme\u201D, I answered with the following statement: \u201CThe staff have advised me that the events of my appearing on that programme are as follows. On 14 May M\u0101ori Television\u2019s Native Affairs made a request to myself. There was an interaction between my staff and M\u0101ori Television, of which I was aware, as often happens.\u201D My corrected answer is: \u201CThe staff have advised me that the events of my appearing on that programme are as follows. On 14 May M\u0101ori Television\u2019s Native Affairs made a request to myself. There was an interaction between my staff and M\u0101ori Television, of which I was not aware, as often happens.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aaa7b1839e0542e7801c5129926b239c\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022636a059c959041a88fdbd30f44660f15\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f1b3c110f3f42a880e0a0367fe2a395\u0022\u003EFree-trade Agreements\u2014Saudi Arabia Negotiations and Al-Khalaf Group\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbac0d25e5a94014b627d68d995bb4db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbac0d25e5a94014b627d68d995bb4db\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement, in question time yesterday, he would \u201Cabsolutely\u201D retain confidence in a Minister who authorised a multi-million dollar payment to a disaffected businessman to unlock a free-trade deal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00220ad4683c01ca4c50b504d47b3f14add2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ad4683c01ca4c50b504d47b3f14add2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by my statement in response to that question yesterday by the member, but I would note the question does not accurately reflect the actions of Mr McCully in relation to the Saudi sheep issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220454ef797d984a33a005f8a79d37e1b8\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he think that it is appropriate for his Government to use $4 million of taxpayers\u2019 money to grease the palm of one foreign businessman?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226198d6176ed443f680e17ff36bf8d90f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I think the member presents the issue inaccurately, which was a payment made for contract for services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfb11eb3712248ce8b0bd153916b3eb2\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: What service was given by the businessman in question in exchange for $4 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022187867cc789c4de3a265d8411030dd81\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have it all in detail, but it is laid out in the Cabinet paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ece12ae642cc428b8fdf7975250531c2\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Given his answers yesterday that he did not know whether Murray McCully invited Mr Al Khalaf to sue New Zealand, as stated in the 2011 letter from Brownrigg Agriculture, has he now had time to check these serious documented allegations against his Minister, and what assurances can he provide the House today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224368be529eee4023bba4b6f8b88c8daa\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr McCully has informed me that he has made no such comment. I do not believe that any Minister has told a party to sue the Government. What Ministers do say from time to time\u2014and I have actually said myself\u2014is that people are free to test their legal rights in court. There is quite a big difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297cc5a4d967b49bfa23fb22d2fd78b3d\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen any reports on the issue that Minister McCully was seeking to resolve with Saudi Arabia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e63c80e06acf48b697137142dd1161f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have. I have seen reports that indicate that trade Minister Phil Goff travelled to Riyadh in 2006 and told the Saudis that live sheep exports for slaughter would resume. I am also seeing reports that suggest that the Labour Government acted in bad faith towards the Saudis by deliberately\u2014deliberately\u2014not telling them that it was changing its position and banning exports. What is clear is that the Labour Government created this problem and Minister McCully is now resolving it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226423d9cc848a4f7589bb848415bb20df\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. If I can get clarification: yesterday I believe you pointed out a ruling that Ministers were not allowed to use a patsy question or a supplementary question to attack Opposition parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b83784747d3493e9a2fe9fff07f40cb\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: I reject absolutely the assertion in that member\u2019s question. I was seeking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251bfab8da1bd4a42bb2ce36b8e0576e9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is not going to be helpful. I certainly did use a ruling yesterday\u2014197/6\u2014and I would encourage members to have a look at it. If I detect that a question is lined up simply as a means of attacking another party\u2014[Interruption] Order! To the Hon Annette King: I am on my feet. Therefore, if I detect a question is for that purpose alone\u2014in this particular case I have got to judge quite a significant difference of opinion, clearly, between National and the Labour Opposition in regard to the history of this matter. The questions have been asked and have been flowing across the House now for a considerable length of time. I do not believe that that question was designed simply to attack the Labour Party. I think it is a position that the Government has continued to advance\u2014that the problem was one that was created earlier. It is for members to decide, or determine, how accurate those statements are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266abcd16ab3c47899b75d0e781a376a3\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister appeared to be quoting from an official document. I ask that he table it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c25c461a96e647bbb1fc6a1afc5b47fd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is easily sorted. If the Prime Minister was quoting\u2014the Prime Minister is indicating that he was not, so that is the end of that matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8bde6e028404453b8cf5ca3a960eb29\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: What advice did he and/or his Cabinet receive about the cause\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256ae22469e934184ad8923e196dd7cab\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! Can I just ask that the question be started again? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e58c058e3609447382a2277bf3a06e3f\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: What advice did he and/or his Cabinet receive about the cause of action underlying Mr Al Khalaf\u2019s claim against the New Zealand Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238591439bd134c7eb14d4185c5a0ba05\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have that information with me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022119494c8ea9b4f17ae566d869e77a0a4\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: What was his Government doing sending sheep halfway round the world to die in the desert?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200e9ae4c60e847cd9c4c19f1c43bdac8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I refute the proposition in that question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cf88b7d345b4c42acf1314c40abe37f\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen any reports about warnings that were given to the Government in regard to the Saudi sheep issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a8324c5c64946feb9d48e75eb74b851\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have. I have seen reports that show that the Government\u2019s actions in relation to the Saudi sheep issue carried legal, commercial, and diplomatic risks. These risks were outlined in Cabinet papers\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221390f3809fd047ccbdad1205630201d3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I am not going to put up with that form of interjection from that member. If it happens again, she will be leaving the Chamber. I am sorry to interrupt the Prime Minister. I invite him again to complete his answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8b0bdaea8e34062ad71fe56f7a15e26\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I will start again. I have seen reports that show that the Government\u2019s actions in relation to the Saudi sheep issue carried legal, commercial, and diplomatic risks. These risks were outlined in Cabinet papers, which also show that the Labour Government gave full assurances to the Saudis and then went back on its word. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0b64baf37a443fd82316b57d69ab976\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In his answer the Prime Minister quoted from Cabinet papers. I request that he table them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a6eb30c73af42cbbac81621c833518d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the Prime Minister quoted from an official document, then he must table it. [Interruption] Order! Whether he quoted from a Cabinet paper is not the issue. As to whether he was utilising an official paper, the Prime Minister shook his head and said he was not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dee1b02c133d4a36a82ae6c6f41a02c4\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like you to consider, perhaps later and in more detail, that when the Prime Minister outlines the contents of a document, whether or not he uses the exact words, he is clearly referring to an official document, and, therefore, he is required to table it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cd77ce5b23144049b4c91f533c78f8f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will give the matter further consideration, but, at this stage, my ruling stands. The Prime Minister said that he was not quoting from an official document, and he cannot be required to table it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2c384dee7a84f5fbb50c0a87fdc8a73\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider that a farm in a desert where 75 percent of lambs die has demonstrated New Zealand\u2019s reputation as a leader in global agriculture?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022788bcabc08ec41b9bb9150c1343dc663\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think that is a proven fact, in terms of the proposition the member is making, but I do think that the opportunity that the agribusiness hub creates is a good opportunity, actually, to showcase for those 30 companies the technology that New Zealand has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002268bdbd140d404d5f8d14d186fb3ed083\u0022\u003EForeign Affairs, Minister\u2014Saudi Arabia Free-trade Negotiations and Al-Khalaf Group\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4f132998aba4e3aaf1bd227efebeebb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4f132998aba4e3aaf1bd227efebeebb\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he still have confidence in the Minister of Foreign Affairs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b933812c8fad4f5b815e6831c0fc8c72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b933812c8fad4f5b815e6831c0fc8c72\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddf4a203df154d1d874f3f618868e1c5\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: How can he have confidence in a Minister who has repeatedly championed the private interests of a disgruntled Saudi businessman over the New Zealand public\u2019s interest?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e3bb42678204ad9a0757bfbde019430\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is completely and utterly wrong on that statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3d7c79531a4494b9437ab169d0f54f3\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Has he asked Murray McCully who suggested that Mr Al Khalaf sue the New Zealand Government; if so, will he tell the House who it was?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f4a6c2863684ef1bf82e191bc8c5838\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that no Minister told any party to sue the Government. Ministers, as I have said before, from time to time will certainly say that people are free to test their legal rights. That is because we live in a democracy with an independent judicial system, and, actually, people are free to test their legal rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d7a8c9f7ea04211bad35a6d6fb71223\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Which one of Murray McCully\u2019s statements about the roll over of the live sheep exports ban in 2010 does he believe: the one to the House on 27 May that \u201CWhat was different was that we did not mislead the Saudi investors about the consequences of the roll over of that order. We fronted up and told them the truth.\u201D, or his statement yesterday that \u201CWell, he did not tell me anything because I did not talk to him about that particular roll-over.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fc29e6ec7b14b3dbdc6099b61da9f84\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I would want to see the full context of all the things that are said, but what I can say in relation to the first statement is Mr McCully is absolutely right\u2014this was a problem created by the previous Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274bbbbe729d94dd99a0bcc30e9c6f8c6\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Given that answer, and given that the November 2011 letter to Murray McCully 3 weeks before the 2011 election says that \u201CMr Al Khalaf has been working patiently with the New Zealand Government of the last 7 years towards the resumption of the sheep trade. He is now deeply concerned\u201D\u2014he is now, in November 2011, deeply concerned\u2014\u201Cthat despite repeated Government assurances that progress towards resumption of the trade was continuing, this has now stalled.\u201D How can he continue to believe Murray McCully\u2019s assertions that the threat of a $30 million lawsuit was entirely Labour\u2019s fault?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2201dd4afe24468a5af331025106f8c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member has actually defeated his own question, because that is exactly the point. Seven years prior to 2011 we were not the Government. We were not the Government that travelled to Riyadh to inform the Saudis that live sheep exports would continue. We were not the Government that deliberately did not tell the Saudis, and we are certainly aware that the actions of the previous Government, as the previous Government was aware, created legal, commercial, and diplomatic risks. What we are is the Government that has tidied up this mess.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bea4ae8dff154a709bc9e01dbf3fb88c\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Prime Minister saying that he was not in office between 2008 and 2011, given that the letter says that Mr Al Khalaf has been working patiently with the New Zealand Government of the last 7 years in November 2011?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229274accafc774e04b8dddcd7ac6a8ee9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not want to give the member a basic lesson, but there was not one Government for 7 years; there were a number of Governments over that period of time. But the Government that created this problem is called the Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225729efac27e7444d962f4d1d68df18a5\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reason that the Prime Minister is not moving to sack the Minister of Foreign Affairs that everybody knows that Murray McCully knows where all the bed\u2014bodies are buried?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225087eead80b24ff8b8169fb13af87d75\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he came to the leadership with such high hopes and we have already got down to these levels. The member knows in his own heart that he is better than that. The Minister of Foreign Affairs dealt with the situation created by Labour. It was a mess. Labour knew it created it. It was advised it delivered commercial, legal, and diplomatic risks. This Government sought to resolve that issue in a way that I think has been good for the relationship with both countries and will progress the relationships together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022899808846e714433b2ce7a61f6bb65c0\u0022\u003EHousing Market\u2014Productivity Commission Report on Supply\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u00226b02696389334e07accf0ebfe006f858\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b02696389334e07accf0ebfe006f858\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received showing why more housing is needed as part of supporting a growing New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00224742ed7bcd7d421cb950969628119836\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224742ed7bcd7d421cb950969628119836\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Productivity Commission last week released its draft report on using land for housing. It finds that New Zealand cities have not been able to provide enough greenfield and brownfield land to meet growing populations, particularly in Auckland, and that planning rules have increased the cost of housing. Among its draft recommendations are that councils do not seek requirements that exceed the Building Act for the construction of homes, that there should be better use of existing infrastructure by allowing intensification where supporting infrastructure is in place, and that councils monitor and report on new dwellings and infrastructure delivery to highlight where their regulations are too restrictive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022915513dbb45641758bc819b0d93d7aa1\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What are some of the factors the Productivity Commission points to as affecting the supply of more housing where it is needed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214b6a4c91df4b64abf0b3b4751ee014\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The commission points out that New Zealand\u2019s housing supply is only moderately responsive to demand due mainly to restrictions on land supply and densification. It says that the costs of some urban design requirements may outweigh the benefits, including rules around minimum parking, balconies, and interior design\u2014requirements that raise housing costs without delivering enough benefits to justify them. The report also says that some of these council rules may be unlawful. The commission says that rules around densification are affecting housing supply. The Auckland Plan sets out a 30-year goal of 70 percent of future growth occurring within existing limits. So achieving these growth targets will require reasonably liberal rules around densification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b796187931fd4f4f8a61c030fd1c22a5\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Productivity Commission say are the consequences of limits on the supply of housing for the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1be4750c021417297afe258a51738ad\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The commission points out three major consequences from council rules around land use. First, the impact on prices has a disproportionate effect on the less well-off because it is the prices and rents of housing at the bottom end that are most affected by red tape. There is a nationwide shortage of lower priced new housing, as the commission\u2019s report shows. Second, an unresponsive housing supply is a risk to macroeconomic stability as well as a barrier to productivity gains by limiting employment opportunities. Thirdly, the cost of housing puts pressure on the public purse. The accommodation supplement and income-related rents will in 2015-16 exceed a cost of $2 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ec662db300040fc8ecab859453de1bd\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What steps is the Government taking to deliver more houses by supporting the growing economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022056fed325aae4126bf68824c91e89776\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The most important one has been to work closely with Auckland City to understand how we can assist it to expand the land supply and ensure that the required infrastructure can be put in place at reasonable cost and in a timely manner. The next step in that process will be when we see the Auckland Unitary Plan again and then we can see whether Auckland City will be able to deliver the supply of housing that its own demand forecasts indicate are required. Alongside that, we have suspended duties and tariffs on building materials, rolled out the HomeStart scheme from 1 April, ongoing reforms to the Resource Management Act, and, in particular, lifting the Government\u2019s investment in the supply of new housing to the Auckland market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9cb6e8cc8d5432794fbc5dc977430d4\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Why, if he believes that the answer lies in more intensification and greenfield development, has he been talking about this for 9 years now, while doing absolutely nothing about it for 7 years and a shortfall of 32,000 houses has built up on his watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb9ac3b335024fcb8503f8c13a1f9ad5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Over that time there have been some significant changes like the formation of the single city in Auckland. I have to say\u2014well, actually, it was initiated by the Labour Government and we implemented it. Secondly, we have brought in place a truncated process for the Auckland Unitary Plan, and the member may not realise this, but it is Auckland Council that makes the decisions about houses in Auckland. We have worked hard to influence them and will continue to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d98f5c20a3a14bdc9fc590f43264cc2a\u0022\u003ESocial Bonds\u2014Mental Health Services Pilot\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022437a90c7faa54f5bb172c8863252105e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022437a90c7faa54f5bb172c8863252105e\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What advice, if any, did he give to Cabinet on the risks of the Social Bonds Pilot announced on 1 June 2015?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u002269ae46bdcb7c4d67be2364cab15a6ccb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269ae46bdcb7c4d67be2364cab15a6ccb\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Papers on social bonds were presented\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac9ab652718b416392d149b8a7a5f4e7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I don\u2019t think the microphone has been switched on. Let the Minister start again now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da71873c76ce47a38476bddfad2363b7\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Papers on social bonds were presented to Cabinet\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c65108368bd41218474dcfadb769133\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! If the member could move closer to the microphone and talk into it that would help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e43225a60794230a364a91a703a0b03\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not think it is a problem with my voice; I think it is the microphone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222393412df1044677bc9f4134cccbc206\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member speaks clearly and close to the microphone, we will hear the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fe8605eb0c0418b9e77233dc9703e43\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Papers on social bonds were presented to Cabinet by the then Minister of Health\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bebbf34f9774c209755c3667b6d6a4c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Order! I cannot hear it. Can the member swap with another microphone? OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be4fb221dacd42a1a5a1cfa753df69ef\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Papers on social bonds were presented to Cabinet by the then Minister of Health in February and August of 2013. In each paper the Cabinet was provided a list of risks and a process for managing these risks was set out. These papers are available on the Ministry of Health website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5c00fb85ea74d7e92b026f682e779f6\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Was Cabinet advised that a negative impact of social impact bonds could be a poor-quality service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3067763b4c34437b9f54baea5512022\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not recall that specific advice being given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022783610dfcbef4551b05f7d296e341e77\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Was Cabinet advised that services provided through social impact bonds could be ineffective and providers could cherry-pick their clients to avoid hard-to-reach users?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d94c298c692c47f4ad9ff267efea7050\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: The issue about social bonds is actually that we are contracting for results and what papers have also described as mitigating strategies around any existing risks. So what we are clear about here is we lay out what we want out of these bonds, we contract very tightly for them, and there is no payment paid until the contracted results are delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0d86222274f4aa59690046d64f2be9e\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Was Cabinet told that the pilot services for social impact bonds would need to be non-essential health services; if so, does he consider services provided to mental health sufferers and those with chronic illness non-essential?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274f167a1e34a469bb6f246f70bddbb70\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Of course those areas are absolutely really important. It is very important that people with mental health issues are guided back into employment and assisted in doing that. What we are clear about is we want a result for this vulnerable population and we are prepared to contract for that and pay for that result to be delivered, unlike other Governments that have preceded us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccc1b04f157049a68e2acc117de20c82\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question asked\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aa3365ac5fa4481846d5fdfb9651764\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will immediately resume her seat. The question was in two parts, and in my opinion the Minister addressed the second part\u2014certainly did not address the first part, but addressed the second part\u2014and that meets the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262560bd604ab4f608b7f3309d8c3df00\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Are those lining up to be investors in social impact bonds philanthropic organisations, well-meaning philanthropists, or foreign-owned banks keen to make an even bigger profit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022236349e008f346af9399a283b039dace\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: We are actually focusing on the result. The interventions are well proven. We are not actually too worried, as long as the organisations are ethical, about who provides the financing. But you have got to focus on delivering a result for a vulnerable population, and that is what this is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211fb878e133e44b5a81a460e3a76eec8\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a Cabinet paper to the office of the Minister of Health\u2014to the Cabinet social policy committee, Social bonds: Proposal for a New Zealand pilot, setting out the risks, as I set out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f3c917f72bb41b78905d006ae9f11a4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That last part is not necessary. The paper has been described. It is a paper going to a Cabinet committee, from memory. Leave is sought to table it. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224fa00722638e4bc18939138b909b4c3c\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Television\u2014Minister\u2019s Involvement in Programming Decisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022578dd1fa41bd4539a1eb57862d901dac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022578dd1fa41bd4539a1eb57862d901dac\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2ccbc66c495437087a8486964db2ff1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2ccbc66c495437087a8486964db2ff1\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Yes, in the context they were given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddb889f22e514df4992a757be1696af5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister, when asked about his or his staff\u2019s involvement in programming for the M\u0101ori Television Wh\u0101nau Ora debate, deny involvement, first, at the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee on 17 June; second, in this Chamber on 17 June; and, third, again yesterday, when he knew those denials were false?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8e23e4aa10a45aca2f604ef337c3ffb\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: I reject that statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f414ebf37f1741188a28bfb3dbeb8cc4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he claim to the media yesterday that at his meeting with the chief executive officer of M\u0101ori Television content was not discussed, when he knew that to be false?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251303383a8884aff83efc209c75ff892\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: In the context of the discussion yesterday, the context was around Wh\u0101nau Ora. In my purview as the Minister for M\u0101ori Development and, indeed, as a responsible Minister for M\u0101ori Television, in the context of the wider statement of intent that is given to me, which was part of the discussion with Mr Maxwell, certainly one of those parts of the statement of intent is content in the wider sense. It includes such things as growth and protection of te reo M\u0101ori me \u014Dna tikanga, 100 million engagements per week, meeting place of M\u0101ori youth. That is the context of the discussion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b170dce3e18c4afdbd7aa11a54a7cafe\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he deny to the media yesterday that content was discussed when the chief executive officer at that time, with nothing whatsoever to hide, on 27 May, in his email to staff, 2 days after meeting the Minister, confirmed that content was discussed? Was the chief executive officer lying?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7a955e40b764884844ae9f56dc110a7\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: In the context of the discussion, I cannot answer for Mr Maxwell, but certainly he did make the statement around the discussions and talked about strategic pillars as well, partnerships as well, alliances as well, people as well\u2014all of that was a part of the discussion. In the context of what I am required to report back to the House upon, the statement of intent, the discussion around content was certainly, in that context, a part of the discussion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4d2b2284bff4813be862dce33a7d0de\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: When his colleague Marama Fox messaged Mihi Forbes when the Wh\u0101nau Ora debate was spiked and claimed that the M\u0101ori Party had no part in it, was he aware that she had done this, and did she do that with his authority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c47f084dbfe48b9825bcd7f1185278a\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: That is outside the realms of my delegations as a Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5e4f23419484c6eba1b3bdec5fd7ea5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister yesterday admit knowledge of his staff\u2019s involvement in seeking to have New Zealand First removed from the debate using the words \u201Cof which I was aware\u201D, which appears in the television coverage of yesterday\u2019s debate, then later changing his Hansard to deny knowledge, when he knew, again, that that denial was false?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022815ef8fc58ae4eb5b87b2f3759f9c5fb\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the second part of the question, I deny absolutely any involvement in the changing of Hansard until the record was corrected today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022788085f858c84f94a8afc412395f8b40\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table last night\u2019s Hansard with the change in it. He says he did not do it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa581f7664084059867d25f437ba16fb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No, the draft Hansard is prepared and available to all members. I get it at about 4.30 p.m. or 5 p.m. It is not necessary to table it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9d5d75daff147af9eb48bcc71ef06c6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is not a boring matter. The fact is one can change a Hansard to change spelling or for clarity or a misquote, but to put in the word \u201Cnot\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201d8664beac24817bd3debd22584e281\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. [Interruption] Order! The member is now alleging that the member changed the Hansard. I can assure him that that is not the case. I have checked on this. The Hansard was a draft prepared by Hansard staff. It turned out to be incorrect and as soon as that was noted it was changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf33f0f4521f4d08993471eec9a1f332\u0022\u003EHon Te Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a48add29e013453cb60a416f88c51f46\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221e8c6e330924b6eb7a1ade930f4bee9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear from the Hon Te Ururoa Flavell first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fef27fae9ca74dfeab285983f4233375\u0022\u003EHon Te Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: I take offence at the Rt Hon Winston Peters suggesting that I changed the Hansard. I would like him to stand and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257f28d734b5844ec909ddb286135679a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Listen\u2014on this occasion, this is a debating matter. I am trying to assist the Minister by stating the facts clearly in the House today. Certainly, I can assure this House that there was no attempt by the Minister to alter this Hansard and have that word stuck in. It was\u2014[Interruption] Order!\u2014effectively a mistake by the Hansard office and that has been acknowledged. It is a draft Hansard that is done very, very quickly for the benefit of all of us members. It is published in haste and then it is distributed, and that is the opportunity for members collectively to make sure that it is accurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2906b9a56eb4356bab87c5e1331138e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299bb11c87a3b48a693a2e1c33f2d911b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear from the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239f33e6262984539bb40db0f389552e1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If one looks at the television coverage yesterday of this question, it is as clear as daylight, if you follow what was said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022624e630284ee418aad9d0103bf2242ae\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! No, the member will immediately sit down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a71bbeee0604a27b2403a7b7dca68de\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I want to ask a question about the authority to change it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295dd478f2f46440399519c6e7f909eff\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! If the member wants to ask a question, get up and do so\u2014I will accept that\u2014but to go back and re-explain what is in the Hansard when I have covered that off quite adequately is unnecessary. So if the member wants to raise a point of order, I will hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed97b78ceb7e482a8a4c7b0d60292b1d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I want to know how Hansard could possibly change this transcript without the authority of the Minister or someone with his authority from his office. We do not give it to all our staff members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221403aaa45f9f46d6804e1a6451bc5f00\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will now resume his seat. I will explain it once more, as clearly as I can for the member, and then we will move on. Hansard record very quickly what happens, to get it out for members to comment on. A mistake was made. How that was made, I do not know. It was made, and as soon as it was then distributed, it was picked up by members and corrected. That has been the procedure for as long as the member has been here. To suggest that it was either a deliberate mistake by Hansard or that it was somehow influenced by the Minister, I assure the member, is absolutely not correct. Does the member have a further\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022044f7d43d3ab43ccabacf8c2b52348c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfb7738d8b324e6eae7f973fe9ddecf4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c29e729e46a4b4598e67b5984cd0d82\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, there will be a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229032fa620dcb4cc48b4745d019fb6bd9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. There may be a point of order. I will invite the member, if he wants to raise a fresh point of order, to certainly do so, but I will not, under any circumstances, entertain from the member a continuation of this point of order. Fresh point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232e4e617902b42789f98d3736eef5907\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a video of the parliamentary coverage\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022538f3d82bef34cc7967baed04d96ae1e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is completely unnecessary and I am not prepared to put the leave. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e64a25248ca4eecaac79266dfcb0238\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff758b28c96b4b50967d0d75de09327e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Members have a right to raise points of order. We collectively hope it will be of value.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d2f99e780184476bab79da5a67d0c2f\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I am trying to be helpful. Could you deliberate, then, and at a later time give us your view? How are we to reconcile a transcript of ourselves on video with that finally produced in Hansard if the two do not match, and how do you, as the Speaker, intend to ensure that consistency remains?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fba36158bcf94cbb9528de4ac84e8163\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have now explained it at least twice as clearly as I can. If I have not made it clear enough to Ron Mark, then I am afraid I cannot help him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279ae20c049f2451e95602961a098631e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Was he so desperate not to debate the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s Wh\u0101nau Ora programme with New Zealand First that he broke the law and got his chief executive office mate Paora Maxwell to scrap the debate, which is why he should resign?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5eae65f88b246ab82ed37ec6c070839\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: I am really proud of the efforts that M\u0101ori Television has done in respect of all sorts of things, in particular around our reo. I thought I made it really clear to the member yesterday that there was no effort whatsoever to get in the road of the broadcast of the programme. In fact, I outlined it really clearly and I will do it again for him just for today. On 14 May of this year we received the request from M\u0101ori Television to appear. On the same day, 14 May, the request was accepted. On 20 May the programme was pulled. There was no interference whatsoever and I gave that assurance to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cde894e718949389d23d5da7bc174b5\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: What happened in between?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee35f991983c448f876d25f130a7e516\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member seems to think he knows, but he does not know anything, unfortunately\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a3488ca6fae410087e41ce48dc22c61\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Now that answer is quite long enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f1daaceda4447159388f5da20a7280c\u0022\u003EMarama Fox\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister knowingly mislead the House at any time now, yesterday, in the past weeks, or in the 8 months of his exemplary service as Minister for M\u0101ori Development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de9a435c92fa4209b16e9275274f7ff7\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: I will apologise for getting up fast\u2014I was so anxious to answer that question and to say to my colleague that I take this as an honourable place, I take the position as a Minister as an honourable position, and I do not intend to do anything to jeopardise that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d4c5b46159b0477b9833c6d7203afcf5\u0022\u003EHousing Market\u2014Tax Reform\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022 data-id=\u002271d0244c4a1f48efa45688944fde240a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271d0244c4a1f48efa45688944fde240a\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT (National\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Revenue: What recent announcements has the Government made around tax rules on property transactions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00223dfc21bdcddf483c9fc0d899843650dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223dfc21bdcddf483c9fc0d899843650dc\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E As part of Budget 2015 the Prime Minister announced additional measures to ensure that people buying and selling residential property for profit, including overseas buyers, pay their fair share of tax. The measures will take effect from 1 October this year, and they include that buyers and sellers of property other than their main home must provide a New Zealand Inland Revenue Department number; that overseas people must have a New Zealand bank account to get a New Zealand Inland Revenue Department number; and a brightline test to tax gains from residential properties sold within 2 years of purchase, with exemptions if it is the seller\u2019s main home, if it is inherited, or if it is transferred in a relationship property settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f3cf344b4d44f008aa62600a2788efd\u0022\u003EAlastair Scott\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government enforce these tax rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223be8d7660bf44d91b8571f85ddc8d587\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Since Budget 2010 the Government has provided the Inland Revenue Department with $33 million more for property tax compliance and enforcement. This has resulted in an extra $258 million of tax revenue\u2014a return of $7.80 for every $1 invested. Budget 2015 provided the Inland Revenue Department with a further $29 million for property tax compliance. This takes its total budget to $62 million over the next 5 years. This is expected to generate $420 million of additional tax. Although it is not illegal to trade property to make a gain, property traders are subject to tax rules, like everybody else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228459025a4fea4d16b743493e4120f8cd\u0022\u003EAlastair Scott\u003C/span\u003E: What progress has been made on these measures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddbc4b5bc4ab4093b8ecdc945b492276\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Good progress. The Minister for Land Information, Louise Upston, introduced the Taxation (Land Information and Offshore Persons Information) Bill to the House on Monday of this week. The bill contains measures that require buyers and sellers of property other than their main home to provide a New Zealand Inland Revenue Department number. It also requires non-residents to have that New Zealand bank account in order to get their Inland Revenue Department number. I will also be releasing a public consultation document seeking views on implementing a brightline test that would make gains from the sale of residential properties sold within 2 years of purchase taxable, with those exemptions. These measures will provide extra information that will help the Inland Revenue Department to detect people seeking to avoid their tax obligation, which is unfair to those who pay their fair share of tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eef01175175b431586b9b8f63c36351e\u0022\u003EFree-trade Agreements\u2014Saudi Arabia Negotiations and Al-Khalaf Group\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022baf22aaa5f094d6980c15dd8671a411b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022baf22aaa5f094d6980c15dd8671a411b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Did he meet with David Brownrigg and George Assaf in Auckland on 18 October 2011 \u201Cto discuss trade between New Zealand and the Middle East and, in particular, the resumption of a specialised live export sheep trade with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia\u201D and was that meeting the subject of a letter to him dated 2 November 2011 from Brownrigg Agriculture on behalf of Mr Al Khalaf and Mr George Assaf?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3b88529605943ab908e5a026bd7cf52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3b88529605943ab908e5a026bd7cf52\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, Mr Brownrigg wrote to me on 2 November 2011 to express his views on New Zealand\u2019s live export trade protocols.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b7a1b92c32046d0b69c08d903616266\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Is Brownrigg Agriculture the same company that was eventually awarded the tender to build the multimillion-dollar model farm in Saudi Arabia on the Al Khalaf property, which Mr Al Khalaf now owns part of?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277824a3921bb4671816d23f94aa36cbb\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that that is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdaa3018b3f4434486be7fdfd31f8023\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Did the letter of 18 October 2011 from Brownrigg Agriculture state: \u201CThank you for your understanding to look seriously at resolving the live trade impasse as part of a wider Gulf trade solution.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273cee24d7d5146dea1853f6f1abdcbda\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have that letter immediately to hand, but that sounds like the sentiment that I saw in the letter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289e664ab4e4e416db72a135af71168d8\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the letter dated 2 November 2011 from Brownrigg Agriculture that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4afc09d77f24842bf853c40022873a4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that particular letter. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f47368c46964dc6a2742bc5a9de48e8\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Did former National Party president Michelle Boag ever propose or endorse a proposal that the New Zealand Government subsidise a model farm in Saudi Arabia benefiting the Al Khalaf group?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e351ff3345e74d5aad3ed826a7165a8a\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY\u003C/span\u003E: I think that as a member of the New Zealand Middle East Business Council, she was involved in making representations on those matters, and those have been in the public arena.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226958b162bc154436ac0df6d902ec4456\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Did the letter of 18 October 2011 from Brownrigg Agriculture state that the letter was also being copied to Michelle Boag, saying: \u201C\u2026 who has been in contact with both of us in her capacity as a director of Laurium Asset Management regarding her interest in seeing the live sheep export issue resolved and the free trade with the Gulf States advanced.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235f6c4bbfc2242ca9f5d27bc42752ca3\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a733dc0a47a04057b18fbe4c92675a2d\u0022\u003EEmergency Services\u2014111 App\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa7e0960b420421f952d1d4c6651201e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa7e0960b420421f952d1d4c6651201e\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Communications: What recent announcements has she made on a new emergency response system for mobile 111 calls?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u00223737e77fc2ca4450be2260f7d7cb5a61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223737e77fc2ca4450be2260f7d7cb5a61\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister for Communications):\u003C/span\u003E Last week I announced a request for proposal for a new emergency response system app for mobile 111 calls. Each year, there are more than 1.3 million genuine calls to 111, and last year 73 percent of those came from a mobile phone. Currently, in about 60 percent of genuine 111 calls, no information is automatically available about caller location. The request for proposal calls for a new smartphone app to be developed by mid next year that can provide caller location information automatically to emergency services as well as allow users to contact directly the service that they require. Lack of location information can mean at least 15 to 20 minutes\u2019 delay in emergency situations, and that can be the difference between life and death.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ae3c60e95304e3b9e24d2751340f522\u0022\u003EKanwaljit Singh Bakshi\u003C/span\u003E: What other benefits does the Minister expect this application to deliver?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5ae67d864b24642957152be632c66de\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: The app will also have the ability to distribute information to the public in the wake of natural disasters or other emergencies, based on their geographical location. This public-alerting function will contribute to public and personal safety by enabling people to see emergency alerts about important public safety matters in their area. The app will be free to download, and the cost of it will be met through the telecommunications development levy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002235dd5c8a390e46ab81167eee7a962d41\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u2014Trans-Pacific Partnership and KiwiSaver\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022eadfed18f35048ed8e753aa562a17568\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eadfed18f35048ed8e753aa562a17568\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00221b67c9a4bfa34ae5b689757fe969f01e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b67c9a4bfa34ae5b689757fe969f01e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab937a3b0b864e898f328c6538fd7804\u0022\u003EFletcher Tabuteau\u003C/span\u003E: Would he concede that his firm stance on the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement has become more of a firm footing on quicksand, as he moves from strong statements like \u201CFor New Zealand to do a deal it has to be a deal on our terms.\u201D to now saying \u201CIt\u2019s probably not at a level that we would currently like for the dairy industry.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdfc65dadf2e4032921749bfe8735db3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, and the context in which I made that statement\u2014that it is probably currently not at a level we would like\u2014was in relation to the clause around dairy, and that is why the Government is continuing to negotiate to get a better deal for dairy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227789d2b79cf44e10b4d8adb9324b3e42\u0022\u003EFletcher Tabuteau\u003C/span\u003E: Which statement does he stand by: firstly, he told the New Zealand public that it would not look good if New Zealand made concessions on the status of Pharmac, and then several weeks ago he acknowledged that if patents were to run a little bit longer, the Government would, in theory, have to pay a little bit more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc71446505834e8994790bf8c6965118\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: They are both correct. There are no changes to the model that Pharmac would operate in. It is possible that patents would be a little bit longer, and if they were, they would have no impact on New Zealanders, who will continue to pay $5 for their prescription drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022731171d13d1141319035e9699e54c663\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does his statement made in this House last month still stand: \u201Cthe removal of the $1,000 kick-start contribution will not make a blind bit of difference to the number of people who join KiwiSaver.\u201D, given today\u2019s statement from ANZ Investments that enrolments in its KiwiSaver scheme have dropped by 50 percent since his Government announced the immediate end of the kick-start?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffb3c9aaf3104612a28f9f100c4b551b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it does stand, and that is because, sure, there may be some initial timing issues, but over time, actually, I am quite confident that the numbers will remain the same. As ANZ said today, its scheme is very good, and if one day a Government goes to auto-enrolment, actually, the numbers will increase from where they are today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002200fdeb6aec434332aeaf0099bc25f141\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Television\u2014Minister\u2019s Involvement in Programming Decisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00221b27aec2af2444ee8424b2dbb59557ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b27aec2af2444ee8424b2dbb59557ed\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: Why did he tell Radio New Zealand yesterday he did not discuss programming content with Paora Maxwell on 20 May, when Paora Maxwell said in an email to staff on 22 May that \u201CWe talked about \u2026 content\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u002271f2c90192bc49edaf1533e5386600d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271f2c90192bc49edaf1533e5386600d9\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou. The full question I was asked by Radio New Zealand was: \u201CDid you discuss the programme that they were planning to run on Wh\u0101nau Ora?\u201D. In response I said that I had no discussions whatsoever about any programme content of any programme. I stand by that statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a94caeb881b4b82b81b407c50b95e52\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: In the light of that answer, has he encouraged a culture under his ministership where news and current affairs staff of M\u0101ori Television are not protected if they scrutinise or criticise the performance of M\u0101ori organisations or individuals, and is this not editorial interference?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229839c72eeb914aea9e5ff8a1dc81de0c\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: If anything, I hope I encourage staff and indeed the country to continue to focus on the kaupapa of M\u0101ori Television, te reo me \u014Dna tikanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234787c4d5f4d4bbaa096477daf9fbd29\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Can he rule out any connection between M\u0101ori Television management saying a panel discussion on Wh\u0101nau Ora would \u201Cnot appeal to viewers\u201D and his press secretary saying that a panel discussion on Wh\u0101nau Ora would not \u201Cenlighten viewers\u201D, or is this just a coincidence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfdb3dd55b654be9a87fa681b38134b2\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: All I can tell the member is that yesterday the head of news and current affairs at M\u0101ori Television said that the claim of political interference in M\u0101ori Television is inaccurate, and, in fact, said: \u201CFor the record\u201D\u2014for the record, to help the member\u2014\u201CFor the record the 20 May meeting was set up on 19 February, any suggestion that there was a link between the replacement of the panel with a best of show and the meeting does not reflect reality.\u201D That is the statement from M\u0101ori Television.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da413669fb2a4147a436a5e1522e73f7\u0022\u003EMarama Fox\u003C/span\u003E: Given the obvious leaks of emails making their way to the Labour Party benches\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220644277b9d1947ef9dc0a7dba6be962a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That question will be ruled out of order. I will give the opportunity\u2014[Interruption] Order! Just to ask a supplementary question that is line with the Standing Orders, without that sort of information\u2014otherwise, the member will lose her opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee0c191000474aff8c657523bef6ce39\u0022\u003EMarama Fox\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Given the light of new information coming out from the cross benches, does the Minister have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e28382fb9b7949ea8b18274adb53de4e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! If the member just starts where I interrupted her, I will allow the question. If she goes back to where she was, it will not be allowed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269097e19ab9543119ed70779228bcfae\u0022\u003EMarama Fox\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for the clarification, Mr Speaker. Does the Minister have concerns about the level of cross bench political interference in the management or processes of M\u0101ori Television? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a297d89415d4af7b8f921b1906fa2aa\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Te Ururoa Flavell. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022442747794e524272915f52727765c6c3\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just want to be clear. Are you accepting now that the Minister is responsible for any actions taken by Opposition members of Parliament?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de75073cb95445bd9cd8a9d92bbbee09\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: The question was extremely clear in asking whether the Minister had concerns. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248e31e5084594b91a0d7e2509a07ea7b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! There was an issue yesterday where I had to remind my right-hand side that points of order will be heard in silence. I am going to do the same on this occasion to my left-hand side. Will the Minister please complete his point?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e04d713ef7e34573b57c422455534042\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I have got to say the Opposition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297144b44fe60441b940400708b4b778e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just complete your point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022614a899425264508b7aca0c0196fc7ae\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: The question was very clear. It asked the Minister whether he had concerns about interference in the activities of M\u0101ori Television and then referred to interference possibly coming from the cross benches of the Parliament. That is not unreasonable. He has already accepted questions from the cross benches about the issue of interference with the activities of M\u0101ori Television.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb34efa557e1405dae2d9743a5a8fd04\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I was very generous to the member in allowing the question. In my mind the essence of the question was whether the Minister can have the opportunity to assure the House whether there is political interference from anybody in this House. That is the way I read the question, and on that basis I am allowing the question and the Minister to answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227a8aa31d02845b3a455803ead678efd\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: Bearing in mind that\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a86ec15927b642c3bdaca764447363ac\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We will now have the answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6fc49f58bee4ec1b884cb4e8ecb8051\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: Bearing in mind that these are some of the accusations that are angled at me, I would be very concerned if there was any political interference by any member of Parliament, and I hold that as a very high standard to ensure that it does not happen. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281e984c70aa74af8aa6bfc60e8dfbac8\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: At an event on 21 May last year did he tell M\u0101ori Television staff if they had concerns with Mr Maxwell not to go signing petitions and not to go to media but to come to him, and if he thinks it should be dealt with, he will deal with it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b3a474906fd4998a0f5b01449ee7b3d\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: That is very good, because in the context of a p\u014Dwhiri that was held for the new chief executive officer, it was said in front of the chief executive officer of M\u0101ori Television. Why? Because he comes from an honourable waka called Te Arawa. It is important we look after them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022861367d78a9a4a37934d16f13b4556c9\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Did he, in this speech, express anger and disappointment that Paora Maxwell had faced criticism leading to his appointment as chief executive officer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022418eb251c7054107a68f8cc5f5cee7a3\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is clear because that member carried out a character assassination of a particular member of the waka, and that was sad under the conditions at the time, but, in the end, it is OK because the current chief executive officer went through a rigorous process to become the chief executive officer of M\u0101ori Television. And the great thing is they are moving from better to great.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022663d4d186b8944e4844ebc7ed8856adc\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: What concerns has he raised over the management of M\u0101ori Television, given that several top journalists have left due in part to claims of managerial interference in news?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7dc1e71f2c346a1859d5958e82e9d96\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in previous discussions, issues in respect of the operations of M\u0101ori Television were not discussed in that context. I made no statement in respect of that and I would not. I should not, I would not, and should not, and if members are going to take me back to the time that there was a p\u014Dwhiri for the chief executive officer in front of the chief executive officer and in front of their staff, I think that is drawing long straws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002261bc4d4347ae4109b6d9dc028739bcc8\u0022\u003EBusinesses, Rural\u2014Annual Agricultural Production Survey\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff8d4571f67a426c811cc2f5669caf44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff8d4571f67a426c811cc2f5669caf44\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Small Business: What steps are the Government taking to improve the way we collect data from rural small businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00222dde4934fc654804a69e2e1114aca3bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dde4934fc654804a69e2e1114aca3bb\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS (Minister for Small Business):\u003C/span\u003E Rural small businesses will benefit from the annual agricultural production survey now being available online. Moving the survey online will save approximately 30,000 rural small businesses time and money, while still providing important information on New Zealand\u2019s biggest industry. Any rural business completing this survey can now do so at a time and a place that suits them, within the 14-day window. Delivering better online services is a key focus of the Government\u2019s Better Public Services programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6f81ecd08e443adb354f8466f71230b\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: What valuable information from rural small businesses do we get from this online survey?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210928a924f714f89861d03a6c0f1bc1b\u0022\u003EHon Craig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Agriculture is New Zealand\u2019s largest industry and earns more than half the country\u2019s total export income. It is important to run a regular survey to identify any changes in the agricultural sector, but it is also important to enable it to be carried out online and to make it as easy as possible. All New Zealand rural small businesses can benefit from contributing to the survey\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ef5e74a964e4d999bcb7e3278ab08e1\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Is this the best you\u2019ve got\u2014a survey?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2fc12631af74d9a8582af853ab0ba43\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Come on\u2014are you going to be next?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e344ddda34cf4b9a9e18468b6972606e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am not going to be next. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238a8482651224fb4a99dcad396ee4afb\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: All can benefit from contributing to the survey and using the data from it to better inform their decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8dfac9d7d8a4c5897cf8d6f4c5bbe41\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: How is this Government making it easier for rural small businesses to interact with the Government online?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f52ba9c913db49b89dbbe75bc20d1fa4\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s ultra-fast broadband initiative and Rural Broadband Initiative are allowing for more rural small businesses to interact with the Government online. The Minister for Communications announced recently that we had reached the halfway point for both the ultra-fast broadband initiative and the Rural Broadband Initiative. These initiatives are being extended to regions across New Zealand, meaning more rural small businesses will be able to increase their productivity, reduce costs, and deliver better results. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a8cdd583c574e079c5efd397fe942bf\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I assume you are about to move on to the next question, but what I would want is to offer one of the spare National Party supplementary questions to the Labour Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022641d43c089174323a4a3a61fee62506f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! And if they wanted one, I am sure they would ask. Supplementary question, Jacinda Ardern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b6136d9bbf34d88854e36cae996c753\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022185817ba2a0a4f16bbc48c9eb73b3ccd\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260ba711eff8d429a9ec7e2962a56416d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Are you now withdrawing? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f568c960c3846198d479066227a048e\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022989dcd6c662e4673852a427b013c23af\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I try to interpret the chaos of the last 20 seconds, Mr Brownlee has offered one of National\u2019s questions, and we look forward to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022203b13218db54d6bba36bffe5dc57674\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the Business.govt.nz website said, after the Budget, that there was nothing new in the Budget for small business other than, of course, the survey he just announced for rural small business?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022440e3852397148928323d287f32ae9c8\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: I welcome the member\u2019s megawatt smile and sparkling brown eyes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262062d249ab44f85987b3c89e28d1986\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have had to remind this Minister on previous occasions how to answer a question. It is a legitimate question. [Interruption] Order! I do not expect to have to give this tutorial to the Minister on a regular basis. Would he now answer the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257d807bc704a4f4ebecb2a37e942481b\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: There were many initiatives announced in the Budget that not only affect but also improve circumstances for all New Zealand business, such as tax cuts, which were potentially signalled for 2017 and which would be of huge benefit to each and every small business across New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002274f9cc78c9154e4c8c4c6bdfdf838d6f\u0022\u003EClimate Change\u2014Health Impacts\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u00221ad755f274c648e48e1d967830cc114b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ad755f274c648e48e1d967830cc114b\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your ruling on the legitimacy of the transfer of this question from the Minister of Health in light of Speaker\u2019s ruling 168/1\u2014in particular, 168/1(2), your own ruling that \u201CMinisters should be in a position to answer supplementary questions.\u201D This is a question that is primarily around the health consequences of climate change. The fact that the words \u201Cclimate change\u201D were used in the question does not change the substantive nature of the question. As competent a Minister as I am sure Mr Groser is, he is not an expert in health services. He is not in a position to answer supplementary questions about those issues. Therefore, I find myself in the position, if the question is permitted to be transferred, of not being able to effectively ask some of the supplementary questions that I would like to because the Minister responding will not have the expertise to be able to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002272bf09d83511406b8a0e060996765a01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272bf09d83511406b8a0e060996765a01\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear from the Hon Gerry Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229522db1e40ec462c8b1811696507a6b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229522db1e40ec462c8b1811696507a6b7\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, it is a very bold person who suggests that the Hon Tim Groser does not have expertise in a large range of topics. Quite apart from that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8b903af8e344acbb97bf4280415867b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member could just raise his real point of order, I would be very grateful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022192d3c5415c348a891096d62bcd18e6e\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: It is up to the Government to choose who it believes can best answer on behalf of the Government. In this case the question is very much focused on climate change. Quite clearly, the suggestions by the professional, which we would have looked at in making that determination, are best answered by the way in which climate change policy might be affected in the months to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecac7196c0c34aca9ce0f1fc8a5da36e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecac7196c0c34aca9ce0f1fc8a5da36e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not need any further assistance. Can I also take the opportunity of inviting the member who raised the point of order to look at Speaker\u2019s ruling 168/2, and that clearly says it is the prerogative of the Government to determine who will answer. The point the member makes in quoting a Speaker\u2019s ruling of mine is that I would certainly not find it acceptable when the supplementary questions were asked for a Minister to then say that you would have to ask the Minister to whom you originally tried to put the question. That is why that particular Speaker\u2019s ruling is there. So we will proceed with the question, and, as Mr Brownlee says, we will wait with interest on the answers given by the Minister for Climate Change Issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u002211315d89d7c448ed82b249a9c3bf9273\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211315d89d7c448ed82b249a9c3bf9273\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Climate Change Issues: Does he agree with Lancet Commission co-Chair Professor Hugh Montgomery that \u201Cclimate change is a medical emergency\u201D but \u201Ctackling climate change could be the greatest global health opportunity of the 21st century\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7470f28976a4dac918ba95b893a7e5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7470f28976a4dac918ba95b893a7e5a\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER (Minister for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E In the light of the discussion we have just had, let me put it this way. If one were a climate change denier, then in the last few days it has been a very bad run for anyone who is a doctor, a patient, or a Catholic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a7ea951c99846eaaf3a4fecb243f468\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Frankly, if that was not proof of this Minister\u2019s inability to answer these questions, I do not know what is. And it was certainly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294a3ee832ad24c028ed01dcc1c887554\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume her seat immediately. Sit down. It is not the answer I would have hoped for. The way forward is that I will now allow the member two additional supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1737ee0c0b54e4d885e5f581355a33f\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Is the New Zealand Medical Journal wrong when it says that in New Zealand leading health threats from climate change include high temperatures, extreme events, changing patterns of infectious diseases, and water and food shortages or price changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c54fe247d89c42b3af626ef1333e6ff8\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not believe that analysis is wrong. I think it is entirely consistent with the science, and it is also entirely consistent with the underlying objective of the 1992 convention, which calls for Governments to act to stabilise anthropogenic emissions at a level suitable for human habitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022160ed67602d5428bb29674d2f48e10c9\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Is Dr Rhys Jones, public health physician and senior lecturer at the University of Auckland, wrong when he said that tackling climate change is likely to be the greatest global health opportunity of the 21st century, meaning that urgent action to move to a low, and very soon zero, carbon society is not just necessary to avoid the worst effects of climate change but if done correctly will be enormously beneficial for our health and well-being right now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8b8eaaf8e394daaae828525e43f87ca\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER\u003C/span\u003E: I will leave it to medical experts to debate this. What I notice is that The Lancet said it could be. Whether in fact it will be greater than, say, the risk of superbugs to the efficacy of antibiotics, greater than the perennial rise of cancer in advanced societies, or other such major challenges facing the medical community is an interesting question, but, yes, it could be the greatest challenge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2ecb6dfa988438183b2c39f7ae24aa9\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, did the Government\u2019s consultation document on setting New Zealand\u2019s post-2020 climate change target completely fail to consider the health costs of climate change and the health benefits from well-designed climate action?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237b628f4d411408e9f57c1a17971443b\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER\u003C/span\u003E: The question fundamentally relates to the risks of climate change; that relates to the science. The consultation was not trying to reopen the science, which we think is extremely clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022726e2acab8ae41118815a5f9b11a155c\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: What steps has he taken to protect New Zealanders\u2019 health in the face of climate change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022318952705bf94945bf5d3c44476bef1b\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER\u003C/span\u003E: I and the team of New Zealand experts that works with me have done a great deal to try to contribute towards global solutions on climate change, which is the root of the problem. We have done this in a variety of ways on which I have addressed this House only recently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220eb1f6b88ac94c37b006e51034958764\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: If I were to ask another oral question about health services in relation to climate change tomorrow, will he guarantee that the Government will not transfer that question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212a88311d94b4747b3aba0cfa05d8b80\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! There is no ministerial responsibility for that whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226c56aa8a58884aac81c7d6a99223896e\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022079159f2a90f411fad49c79feacdd698\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00224f96ed520bfe4a03a8f91641bb70d9fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f96ed520bfe4a03a8f91641bb70d9fc\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. I want to begin by addressing my comments to the member for Wellington Central. It is just about 10 years ago that I came in here, and I always remember having a chat with his predecessor, Marian Hobbs. She said to me: \u201CLook, when you\u2019re in Opposition, it\u2019s a really good time to read and to think.\u201D I took on her very good words of advice, and I did a lot of reading and thinking and mastering of my portfolio responsibilities. But the trouble with the Labour Party, and with Mr Robertson in particular, is that there is no thinking and there is no working. That is a great disappointment from Mr Robertson, who has gone from rising star to elder statesman with no intervening period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI say this to Mr Robertson: what the Labour Party seems to be saying these days is\u2014these are the broad themes of what those members are thinking about. The first is to look at the future of work, which is great coming from a party that has no work ethic\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022590e400fa6a54c1e86d04ca1fe39ddb2\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: You used to be so nice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224caf4f592d3c4e7397a3c926f2b4f93d\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I am being nice\u2014and the second thing is that they want to get up a theme that we are neglecting the regions. But the member for Rongotai would know\u2014because she had a very nice statement in The Chatham Islander the other day\u2014what a tremendous Budget it was for the Chatham Islanders, in the farthest part of our Realm. It was a very good article, if I may say so. What we were doing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3ca379dd5c541a0b0f64330f490fb3e\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Did you read the bit that said it was 12 years too late?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8cf7cb0928448d3b9c64c86bbb95a3e\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I only read the good bits. There is the very substantive effort that been made by this Government in the farthest part of the Realm to do something about its infrastructure, and I personally want to thank the Minister of Finance for his kindness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe second thing that we heard the other day\u2014and Jonathan Young, the MP for New Plymouth, referred it to me\u2014was this extraordinary article by Labour\u2019s arts spokesperson, Jacinda Ardern, who was in New Plymouth with a group of Labour MPs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c9cf09e6b724e36827fbd94be98a93f\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s \u201CJa-cinda\u201D, actually\u2014Jacinda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022298d0a33e8d04608b0dba6755640c5d3\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Jacinda\u2014and she stood in front of the new Govett-Brewster Art Gallery and she said that this shows why the Government is neglecting the regions and why money needs to be put into regional projects, conveniently overlooking the fact that the Government, through the Regional Museums Fund, had put several millions dollars into that very project. So that was a week\u2019s work for her, and it was a very disappointing week\u2019s work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI come back to what Marian Hobbs, the former member for Wellington Central\u2014a very nice lady\u2014said to me, and I say it to the Labour Party: there is no substitute for hard work. There is no substitute for knuckling down and thinking through the issues\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da51eca8cd0d48a8b61f698d186c0554\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What about nastiness\u2014is there any substitute for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6a89d91672946a79924eaafedec8a1c\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Instead of hurling abuse across the Chamber, Mr Robertson should be at his desk, thinking through the issues from a social democratic point of view, but he is not. Instead, we have the rising star of the left, the Greens\u2019 Mr James Shaw. It is going to be a very interesting tussle in Wellington Central. I am predicting that in 2017 Paul Foster-Bell is going to storm through the middle, because this is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a54a8e8c12e44039d6e700f2e4f68fa\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Join in\u2014come along. Run in Wellington Central. Come on, Chris. Run here\u2014run where you live.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5e88dc27c164269b3ffa325cf016e9f\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Robertson is always wanting to have me stand in Wellington Central. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI compare that do-nothing attitude of the Labour Party with the very positive agenda of this great party because we are building, we are building, we are building. I have been a student of politics since the fourth term of the Holyoake Government and I can honestly say that I have never seen such talent on the backbenches. I have never seen such a vigorous third-term Government, building infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI congratulate my colleague Amy Adams. Someone told me the other day that broadband is faster in New Zealand than it is in New South Wales, and the Australians are marvelling at it. We are building law reform, thanks to Amy Adams\u2019 good work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EWe are building houses, thanks to Nick Smith. We are rebuilding\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2dc27ee6671430d99a0c6ec7477c8e4\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Almost nothing. You\u2019ve blown your credibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3de7657fa9d4f1083108177db444e88\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and all Phil Twyford can do is snipe on the sidelines. We are rebuilding a strong environment, thanks to the work of people like Nick Smith. Look at the Environmental Reporting Bill debate last night. All Labour could do was indulge in pettifoggery and nastiness because the reality of the matter is that that is legislation that will greatly advance our environmental agenda. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EWe are rebuilding Christchurch. Gerry Brownlee has got many, many fine qualities, but what he is going to be remembered for more than anything else is the work that he has done in rebuilding Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAs Mrs Thatcher said, I could go on and on and on, but I have to have a meeting on the town belt with Mr Robertson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e90cfc66054e4da0a1ce936b81b76ef8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e90cfc66054e4da0a1ce936b81b76ef8\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E There are times when the House has to do a number of things. The first is to not to reduce itself to comic entertainment, such as the last speaker, Christopher Finlayson, did. Secondly, there are times when it is entirely appropriate for this House to put aside the robust cut and thrust, which is the bearpit that this Parliament is, even during the weekly general debate, in order to focus on those things that unite us. This country and this House had that experience just a few years ago with one of the worst workplace accidents we have seen in this country\u2019s history. That was the Pike River disaster. As a consequence of that tragic disaster, the country was united in the need to do better on workplace health and safety. Even within this Parliament, parties united around the need to do better when it came to workplace health and safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis Government did the correct thing in assembling a high-powered royal commission of inquiry, which investigated the causes of that accident. It went very widely and it looked at the systemic causes, the regulatory causes, and the things that the Government itself contributed to. It was an honest appraisal and it was a royal commission that came up with some very serious recommendations. This Government did the next important thing and the right thing to do. It drafted legislation and brought to this House a bill that truly reflected the issues raised by the royal commission. It was part of that growing consensus amongst workers, employers, politicians, civil servants, and the entire community that we needed to have something better to protect workers at work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI sat on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. I had the privilege of sitting on the select committee where we received many submissions. Some submitters, however, did not speak to their submissions, such as Talley\u2019s, but then there was a reason for that, possibly\u2014that they were not part of the consensus. Perhaps now they will be. That piece of legislation inched its way forward, and there were contests of ideas. There was push back, but in the end the broad consensus remained\u2014until it went back to the National Party caucus, and then something happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESomething has happened in the National Party caucus in the last few months. We cannot put our finger on it\u2014and Maurice Williamson sits there rubbing his hands; I am not sure whether with glee or with concern\u2014but something has happened in that National Party caucus. The consensus that has gripped the rest of the country, that once gripped this Parliament, has fallen apart, and we are entitled to know why because there is a very serious issue. There continues to be a very serious issue about our health and safety performance, and we must be able to put longstanding differences aside. The National Party has always seen itself as an ideological warrior for some in the employing class, but it has never seen to have a sense of pragmatism and unity when it comes to workplace issues. It has lost it completely. We must find the way to redraw that consensus, to bring it back together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt was encouraging last night to see Amy Adams, the Minister of Justice\u2014spoken of so fondly by the Attorney-General just now\u2014come out and say that it is time for a corporate manslaughter law. She said she wanted to see it as part of the Health and Safety Reform Bill. What a pity that it was not in the first reading, in the first draft that came to the House. It would be a pity if it just appears as a Supplementary Order Paper, because it is an issue that ought to have been the subject of public submissions. But what a positive step for a Minister in the National Government to take, until, of course, a few hours later when we saw the response. It was not from us, not from members of the community, and not even from members of the employer community, but from her own National Party colleagues who then started a process of pouring cold water on the idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWell, it is time that this National Party in Government understood the importance and the urgency of getting our workplace health and safety performance to improve. What is it with this National Party? Why is it so divided, not just on this issue but on others as well? Why are those members trying to lead a breakdown in the national consensus that we have on such an important topic? What has gone wrong? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ELet me be very clear. On this side of the House we stand firm and true for better workplace health and safety and for proper accountability. We must never repeat the situation where directors sit round a board table and just positively ignore their obligations and their responsibilities. Bring that bill back, bring it back unchanged, and give us better health and safety across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfb13c149b43489b9bebeea90e47ed0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfb13c149b43489b9bebeea90e47ed0e\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E I had a very interesting trip yesterday to the Manawat\u016B, Rang\u012Btikei, and Whanganui areas to make sure that they were coping reasonably well with the big storm and flood event that occurred. I must say that the devastation in that area is very dramatic. A lot of roads\u2014in particular, in the rural communities\u2014are suffering through slips and road closures, and there is a lot of debris around and a lot of silting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI went on to one particular farm yesterday in the Whangaehu Valley, and on his hayshed one particular farmer had a flood marking of the water level of the 2004 flood and one of the 2015 flood. There was not too much difference\u2014probably about a 250 millimetre - odd difference between the two water levels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat is slightly different this time is that this event has occurred in the winter months, and the last event in 2004 occurred in the summer months. So we all know what that means: soils are already waterlogged in the winter, and once they have a significant rain event occurring upstream above Whanganui, of course that water had to go somewhere. So that meant that my officials sought a lot of advice and said to me that this met a medium statutory declaration. As a result of that, $100,000 of extra funding has been made available to supporting the rural support trust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAlso, we are going to have a recovery facilitator on the ground working very closely with the likes of Fonterra, Federated Farmers, Beef and Lamb New Zealand, and other industry groups, and linking closely with the councils because the Government has already indicated that it will provide $250,000 for an enhanced Taskforce Green. These are the people who are going to get out there and help farmers in those rural communities clean a lot of the debris that I saw yesterday off their fences, and stand up some of those boundary fences that have been decimated by this significant flooding event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAlso, if needed, there will be rural assistance payments. What I have often said to the many groups that I have spoken to is that farmers are not interested in a handout. They are actually more interested in knowing that the Government cares in the period of hardship that they find themselves in. This is not a new event for rural communities. They have been through events like this before and, unfortunately, they will go through them again, whether it is droughts, whether it is snowstorms that are occurring in the South Island, or whether it is a very prolonged drought period like that which North Canterbury is having to deal with right now. Fortunately, it had 25 or 30 millilitres of rain this week, so there is some positivity there. The Government is doing what it can, the Minister is on the ground, and officials are helping the councils to get through what is a significant event there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAlso, it is very timely to mention that for our dairy farmers in particular this is a tough time. Not only has the flood impacted on this particular area but prices are very, very volatile. That is why I reached out, with Minister Coleman, and announced $500,000 where both of our ministries are going to be focused on mental health and wellness into rural communities. There are a lot of initiatives out there already, and farmers just need to know who they should turn to. Whether it is Dairy New Zealand, which is running an initiative called Tactics for Tight Times, or whether it is Farmstrong, which is all about \u201CLive well farm well\u201D, it is about rural communities knowing who to turn to in times that are pretty tough for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe outlook for the primary industries is extremely bright. The outlook for dairying is very good. Beef is having a record year right now, and the outlook for beef farmers for the next couple of years is strong. Horticulture products are going extremely well. Exports for viticulture\u2014that is, the wine industry\u2014avocados, kiwifruit, and apples are also having a great year. Also, seafood is going pretty well, and there is the ability for it to grow, going into the future as well. Forestry is looking at having some growth as well because of the US housing market recovering, and, of course, there are also big demands on its products here in New Zealand in the Christchurch rebuild and for building more houses in Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ETonight we are celebrating success in the primary industries, and that is with the Ballance Farm Environment Awards. I salute all of the finalists who are coming to Parliament tonight. I congratulate the winner, and we do not know who that is yet, but I look forward to shaking hands with them and saying what a fantastic job they do of actually looking after the environment sustainably. More consumers around the world are demanding more from our farmers, and tonight we are going to celebrate the success of farmers focused on sustainability and celebrate how they get a premium product into the market and do extremely well, whether it is by planting riparian planting zones excluding cattle from waterways\u2014and cattle are now excluded from about 96 percent of waterways under dairy farms. That needs to be acknowledged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EOur farmers have come a long way and they have challenges in front of them, but we should celebrate the success of our farmers tonight and say what a fantastic job they do. I invite everyone to get involved\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccb69f69426244029b79b88741764c82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccb69f69426244029b79b88741764c82\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00227da3a4cd74494c30b7059dec87cde935\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227da3a4cd74494c30b7059dec87cde935\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand is facing what may well be an unprecedented attack on State and social services. Just this past weekend we found out from the Minister for Social Development that she is open to considering Serco and, we must assume, other transnational corporations to provide community care for our most vulnerable children and young people, as well as victims and survivors of domestic and sexual violence. Serco is the company that is running Mt Eden prison, which has the highest inmate-on-inmate violence in the country, according to a recent UN report; Serco, in early audits, was found to have failed to reach 40 percent of its targets. But this is not an isolated announcement. This is part of a pattern of the implementation of an ideology of this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ELast week we found out that the Government is looking at using people accessing mental health services as a cash cow for its mates in the form of social bonds, a model where businesses are encouraged to invest in the provision of something that we used to consider a core function of Government\u2014a role, a service, for some of the most vulnerable people in this country. To be able to turn this into an opportunity for profit for a business is this Government\u2019s agenda. Only 2 weeks ago we saw the largest counselling provider in this country close its doors because of funding pressures\u2014after having been required to cut $4.5 million from its operating budget. This is a service that had existed since World War II. Relationships Aotearoa has been quite blithely criticised by this Government, without being given a chance to be able to stand up and defend its good name. And I must say that what I heard in the community was roundly positive about that organisation. But, no, that is not what the Government said. It has just been happy to see it close. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThese three cases are just part of another stage of a significant attack on services. We have seen Child, Youth and Family operating under a differential response model for a while, where two-thirds of notifications for Child, Youth and Family are put out to community organisations, community organisations that are struggling to survive, organisations whose staff members have not had a pay rise in 6 years, who are saying that their skills are undervalued and they are struggling to cope with the massive increase in complexity of the cases that they see\u2014children like we have seen in front of the courts in Auckland this week\u2014because the Government is reducing its role in providing these essential social services. We have also now seen a review of Child, Youth and Family. Rather than having a response to the reports that are telling us it has been underfunded and understaffed for a long time, we have a review happening, headed by Paula Rebstock. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe have seen functions of Work and Income also contracted out to the community and businesses, which are no longer under the same level of democratic scrutiny. We cannot see what is going on, and it is much harder to get the stories from those communities in order to be able to hold the Government to account. And now we hear the Government\u2019s Better Public Services model is going to be applied on to our community sector. Whereas before the community used to identify its needs, do its research, come together as people, and provide the best responses, now the Government is going to be reducing its funded work down to this Government\u2019s political goals, not the democratic political needs of that community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis is part of the sale of State houses into the community, the privatisation of prisons, ACC contracts going to businesses, Australian insurance companies picking up services for specialist sexual violence services, charter schools\u2014the list goes on. This is a comprehensive, unprecedented attack on the role of the State and the undermining of our communities. It is something that this country should be very, very wary of. We are being told it is all about better services, but this is the most significant and pernicious political agenda we have seen in decades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00227f994b03e9e14026aa763b82ca8c7a78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f994b03e9e14026aa763b82ca8c7a78\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E If ever there was a party mired in ideological claptrap, it would be the New Zealand Green Party. I will look forward to refuting the prophecy of doom that we have just had from Jan Logie. But before I do so, could I just put on record my endorsement of the words of the Hon Nathan Guy for the victims of the recent flooding in Whanganui, Rangit\u012Bkei, and surrounding districts, and also note that the people of Dunedin South went through a similar experience just a few weeks ago. It has been a difficult time for all of them. We send them best wishes and, though it may not seem like it just now, I am sure that there will be better times ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThis is, as we said in the Budget just a few weeks ago, a Government that is sticking to a plan that is working. What I want to suggest to the House today is that there is a fundamental difference between National and our support parties on this side of the House and Labour and its allies on the other side. The fundamental difference is this: Labour believes that the success of a Government is measured by how much money it takes from the taxpayers and then splashes around\u2014the more the merrier\u2014without ever worrying about the results of that expenditure. National, on the other hand, says that taxpayers\u2019 money is hard-earned, much of it by people on low incomes. Therefore, we must never take a dollar more than we can justify, and every dollar that we spend has to be spent with the best possible impact, with the best possible evidence behind it. That is where I come back to the point that Ms Logie was making before. This is a Government that is firmly focused on looking at the evidence of how the money is spent, and finding better ways of spending it. We have made a priority for the last 7 years the delivery of Better Public Services, and across the board it is working\u2014across the board it is working. Better Public Services does not automatically mean more expensive services; it means delivering value for taxpayer investment and constantly looking for ways to improve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAt the end of the Budget debate the Minister of Finance made a comment about the Labour Opposition that I think bears repeating. He said: \u201CThis lazy Labour Party, this uninspiring Labour Party, this Labour Party that sucks hope from those who need it most has been waiting around to be able to say: \u2018The nasty Tories cut everything. Vote for us; we\u2019re kind and caring.\u2019 \u201D Well, it has not happened. We have not been cutting. We have certainly been pruning in certain areas in order to ensure reprioritising in ways where the expenditure will work better, and the results are there in crime, health, education, and welfare, right across the board, showing that it is working. This is a Government that has been firmly focused on striking the right balance between responsible management of the economy, managing a growth phase in the economy\u2014and does the international community not look at it and say \u201CWell done, New Zealand.\u201D; all the commentators say that\u2014while keeping our own expenditure under control. Remember that Labour saw expenditure go up like this. It went out of office saying \u201CWe\u2019ve spent the lot. You guys have got a decade of deficits to look forward to. Good luck\u2014make good with that.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWell, we said that that was not good enough, and that we would get things back under control much faster than that, and we are. But we also said that we would do it while protecting the most vulnerable New Zealanders. Of course this was all before the global financial crisis, all before the Canterbury earthquakes\u2014nobody could have seen just how bad things were going to be\u2014and yet, in New Zealand, here we are with a record that all the economic commentators and all the international observers say is the model to follow. The Labour Party members, of course, have got no answer to that. They say no a lot of the time, but they do not like saying \u201CWell, let\u2019s look at what National has been doing that\u2019s working so well and see whether we can adopt some of it.\u201D They just have not got the wit to admit that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWe are, without doubt, looking at further and further improvements. As Chris Finlayson mentioned earlier on, what a talented team National has, because right across the board the Ministers, and snapping at their heels are a group of people on the backbench, focused on delivering things that matter for New Zealand\u2014not little, ideological claptrap - type things, but they are really getting down and saying this could be done better. That is why the Community Investment Strategy is so worthwhile looking at hard. I wish that Ms Logie would take her blinkers off and say: \u201CWe can do things better.\u201D\u2014and the Government will do better. One final point that I want to leave with the House is that it is worth noting right across the land that the total annual cost of initiatives in the Government\u2019s last six Budgets has been an extra $2.9 billion. It is a lot of money but it has been manageable and it has been measured. In comparison the extra cost in the last six Budgets of the Labour Government totalled $20 billion. That is unsustainable. Ours is the plan that is working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022222f51ad780b4ee88b709f4ee571ac08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022222f51ad780b4ee88b709f4ee571ac08\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E I want to join with other speakers in acknowledging the hardship that the people of Wanganui and the South Taranaki are going through at the moment in recovering from the devastating floods. It is quite clear for many people in those areas that this will be a long road back, and they deserve the support of everybody in this House. It was pleasing to see the Minister of Civil Defence and the Minister for Primary Industries showing up in those regions in recent days. In the community that I grew up in, down in south Dunedin, people were not feeling quite so much love from some of the authorities there. I think\u2014I hope, certainly\u2014that some lessons have been learnt there, as they should have been from the Northland floods last year, when an awful lot was promised but not a lot was delivered. So I do hope the Government will apply its largesse evenly across those who have been affected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhen I look at the floods that have affected the people in south Dunedin, it gives me cause for thought to reflect on my upbringing in that community. South Dunedin has never been a particularly wealthy community. It has got a lot of elderly people; it has got a lot of low-income families. But when I grew up there I got a fantastic start in life. I went to some great schools. I lived in a community that was tight-knit. There was not a huge amount of money around, but all of us growing up there felt that we had the same opportunities living in St Kilda as someone who was living in St Heliers. There was nothing that held me back in terms of achieving what I wanted to growing up in that community. I ask myself today whether that is still the case in New Zealand today\u2014that it does not matter where you grow up, that you will still get the opportunities to succeed and achieve your potential. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI would say for Emma-Lita Bourne that was most definitely not the case. She did not start her life in a situation where she had the same opportunities as somebody else to achieve her potential. Her life was ended so tragically early in large part, as the coroner has told us, because of the house that she was growing up in. I look at the case of Bonnie and William Moa and their family in South Auckland and I ask whether they are getting the same opportunities as I got when I was growing up in south Dunedin, when they live in a home that they have had to describe to the public as covered in faeces, graffiti, and mouldy and rotten floorboards. I look at the opportunities for Melissa Nganu and her family, where she has had to move her children out of a rodent-infested house with mice faeces and rotting floorboards through which the mice get in. I ask whether her family is getting the same opportunities as other New Zealanders, as we pride ourselves on in New Zealand, and the answer is that they are not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe are told by members opposite that this is compassionate conservatism. Well, I would hate to see the hard edge of conservatism, when people are being made sick and are dying because of the homes they are living in. Then we have Nick Smith, the Minister for Building and Housing, whose response to this was to say that people dying of pneumonia and other illnesses is not new. That is not an acceptable response from this House. It is not an acceptable response from a Minister who claims to be part of a so-called compassionate Government. There is nothing compassionate about people growing up in houses that make them sick and that they die from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI watched on the news the other night a story in the Good Sorts section of the Television One news. It was about a lovely man in K\u0101whia who was giving technology to the schools there\u2014a decile 1 school. I thought what a fantastic thing it was for that man to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022726c4ff337ad459c8486da8dc7083834\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: What a good guy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9eaaa11729a4119be4bdc7b602401a7\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: But by the same token, Mr Bishop, how is it that we now come to rely on the charity of one man to make sure that kids in a decile 1 school are getting the same opportunities as kids in a decile 10 school? That is what this country has come to under the National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe need to focus as a country on giving everybody the opportunity for success. Every New Zealander deserves to grow up in a warm, dry home. Every New Zealander deserves to be part of a school that has got the technology and resources that will unlock their potential. Every New Zealander deserves to be able to get a job where they are paid well and where they can support their family. The Labour Party\u2019s focus is on giving every New Zealander a fair shot at success\u2014a life where your success is not based on your parents\u2019 wealth but on how we as a community can support all New Zealanders to achieve their potential. That is the focus of the Labour Party, whether you grow up in St Kilda or St Heliers or South Auckland. Every New Zealander deserves the same chance. They are not getting it from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00221b86c10504a24140bca85cd04c563c52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b86c10504a24140bca85cd04c563c52\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Listening to that member, Grant Robertson, the current member for Wellington Central, and hearing the advice from the Hon Marian Hobbs, a predecessor of that member, that the Attorney-General gave earlier in this debate\u2014that when in Opposition, you should use that time to be thinking and investing in policy and hard work: doing the thinking and the hard work\u2014clearly, that is not occurring from either that member or members of his caucus. Here they are, 7\u00BD years into Opposition, and there is not a new idea amongst them\u2014no thinking, no new ideas, and certainly no new work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe speech just completed by Grant Robertson was a good classic example of how bad the situation is within the Labour Party. It is bereft of ideas, bereft of new thought, bereft of good thinking, and bereft of any sense of wanting to do the hard work that should be done in Opposition in preparation for returning, eventually, to the Government benches. Looking at its efforts so far, 7\u00BD years into its term in Opposition, it is clearly nowhere close to being ready for Government. It is a party that says no. It is the party of \u201Cno\u201D. It says no to everything. It has no new ideas, no new vision, and it is a party of no change. About the only thing that it changes is its leader, and it does that with monotonous regularity. There is a very high chance, in my view, that it will change its leader again before we go to the polls in 2017, because the performance of its leader this afternoon would have left the Labour members feeling very concerned indeed about the coming election in 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EA party that has recently changed its leader\u2014or, indeed, half of its leadership\u2014is the Green Party. This is the first opportunity I have had to congratulate James Shaw, who was another candidate for the Wellington Central seat, along with Mr Robertson and my good friend and colleague Paul Foster-Bell. James Shaw has now become the co-leader of the Greens, and one would have you think that all is happiness\u2014that the morris dancing is being danced with vigour and the singing of \u201CKumbaya\u201D is all happy and loud. But, actually, we know that it is not, because it was a tightly fought contest\u2014it was a tightly fought contest. The protagonists all said that it was a tightly fought contest. Actually, I have to say that most pundits expected the hard-working and diligent Kevin Hague to win that election, and that he did not was cause for considerable surprise amongst the political commentariat. I think that those who follow politics were genuinely surprised that James Shaw came through in the end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe Greens have a system of electing their co-leader whereby each of their branches elects a delegate and the delegates then go and vote by secret ballot at their AGM, and a winner emerges. I know that all is not well in the Green Party when members\u2014active members; members of longstanding in the Coromandel Green organisation\u2014go out of their way to come and tell me how unhappy they are with the decision that was made and how disappointed they are. I suspect their concerns are about how that process of voting actually took place and occurred, because the news that is reaching me is that, clearly, some of those branch delegates did not vote in the secret ballot according to the directions of their branches. That would account for the surprise result that occurred in terms of the co-leadership of the Greens. I am not one to get too concerned about the internal machinations and the democracy of the Green Party, but it strikes me as fundamental that if the branches give to their delegates a direction on how to vote and then those delegates do not vote as they have been instructed, then that causes great concern amongst the rank and file of the Green Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWe on this side of the House are part of a Government that has a plan that is working, and, unlike members of the Opposition in both the Labour Party and the Green Party, we have a functional leadership. We have a functioning, organised caucus. We have new ideas and new plans, and the plan is working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed18720e7217487da7e83f977773ba70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed18720e7217487da7e83f977773ba70\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we set out to deceive. Yesterday in this House we heard the Minister in charge of M\u0101ori Television stumble over undoubtedly well-rehearsed and closely scripted lines. Then there was some inadvertent honesty after a litany of denials blaming everyone but himself. That honesty lasted just as long as Mr Flavell or his staff realised they had made a big mistake and they cack-handedly sought to falsify the Hansard record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EHe said yesterday, on the issue of his awareness of staff involvement, the following\u2014and I quote him\u2014\u201Cof which I was aware,\u201D. Yesterday\u2019s video of Parliament clearly has him saying that, but in last night\u2019s Hansard, all of a sudden, the word \u201Cnot\u201D was put before the word \u201Caware,\u201D so that in the Hansard last night it reads \u201Cof which I was not aware,\u201D. Yesterday Mr Flavell uttered the truth, before a cover-up that must not be allowed to succeed. Now the word \u201Cnot\u201D\u2014you would not believe it\u2014is back out of the Hansard. What on earth is going on with the leading institution of this country when it is claimed that the Hansard people put the word \u201Cnot\u201D in there? Who would do that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWhen you saw the video or you heard what was said, there is no way there could have been a mistake. He tried to change the record, but in doing so he more deeply implicated himself because what he denied before the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee on 17 June in the afternoon in Parliament, then this week in Parliament, and again today was caught out by his Hansard record\u2014now corrected\u2014which reads \u201Cof which I was aware,\u201D. And how can a Minister get by making denial after denial when it was said by the Prime Minister: \u201CI\u2019m a Prime Minister who believes in standards\u2014high standards.\u201D Well, these standards are so low you could parachute out of the bottom of a snake and have room to spare. Over and over it goes on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI want to say to the National-led Government, and more particularly to the M\u0101ori Party and M\u0101ori members over there, that we will never have equality in this country if substandard performance and second-class standards is the benchmark for M\u0101ori politicians. We will never have equality if that is what is accepted by your European colleagues in the National Government. It is inverse racism of the worst sort. The last thing that any M\u0101ori wants is this paternalistic treatment that says: \u201CWell, he\u2019s a M\u0101ori Minister; we don\u2019t expect better.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWell, we in New Zealand First do expect better. We have always opposed Wh\u0101nau Ora. The only party in this Parliament that has opposed Wh\u0101nau Ora because of its corruption is New Zealand First. But the Minister sought, and his staff sought, to interfere and break the law and to spike\u2014stop\u2014a debate because he did not want to face New Zealand First. That is enough for the Minister to go, but the denials over and over and over again, and the circus we saw in the House today on points of order about that Hansard change, tell us that he should go. I regret saying that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f70705c8aeec40ca921a61eb244312dc\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: No, you don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1bc17460256427fbea860b502a95991\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I do regret saying that. I know him better than you do. I know him far better than that member over there does, but I am sick of those members over there telling me they believe in equality. They are telling me they believe in one law for all, but when it comes to standards and performance and accountability, they clearly do not. Again, I say that that Minister, in the interests of M\u0101oridom\u2019s integrity, let alone that of this country and of this Parliament, should resign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EYou know, Marama Fox got involved within hours of the programme being shut down to try to convince Mihi Forbes that the M\u0101ori Party was not involved. Why would she do that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EDo not forget that on 22 June, 2 days after the shutdown, you had the chief executive officer for M\u0101ori Television\u2014namely, this man, Paora Maxwell\u2014saying that content was discussed. The Minister kept denying it. What is this photograph here about? Well, this is a photograph of him being taken on to the marae to welcome him as the new chief executive officer of M\u0101ori Television. What is fascinating about that is this: when this event happened, Te Ururoa Flavell was not the Minister in charge of M\u0101ori Television. He did not get that job until 8 months later. So the question is: are the allegations true that M\u0101ori Party interference in M\u0101ori Television was happening a long way back and that it is happening still? The answer is palpably, demonstrably yes. Mr Te Ururoa Flavell should be resigning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u00228bb2074a4a3a4ed1bdf7d4aca5855412\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bb2074a4a3a4ed1bdf7d4aca5855412\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I again thank the whips for giving me another slot for the drive-time audience of Auckland. In fact, I almost feel I should be like Selena on breakfast TV and have my iPad out and take you through a traffic forecast for Auckland. But I am not going to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EWhat I am going to do today is give a little lesson to the Labour Party members. It is a genuine lesson. It is not going to be rude. It is not going to be nasty. I want them to listen carefully. I am going to throw a bit of mathematics in it. For example, I am going to talk about monotonic functions. Most people do not know\u2014they think monotone is a dreary, dull speaker\u2014that a monotonic function is a graph that heads in one direction and keeps doing it. Here is my lesson. I have gone back and I have looked at the two main parties, Labour and National, right back into the 1930s, and I have looked at general elections and what has happened when there has been a change of Government. We know there is a famous statement here that Oppositions do not win elections; Governments lose them. In fact, all you need to do\u2014and I suggest to people on the other side that they get their research people to do it\u2014is to draw these graphs, because it is just so factual it is not funny. Every time there has been a general election in the past that changed the Government, from that point on the Government\u2019s support has started to drop, and the Opposition party started to grow in a monotonic fashion\u2014that is, a general increase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ESo we go back through history. Take 1975, when Rob Muldoon won. By 1978 National had dropped dramatically. By 1981 it just got there by about one seat from the Springbok tour. Three years after 1981, by 1984, there was a complete and absolute clean-out. Why am I telling the Labour Party members all this? I am telling them this because what has happened now is that history has somehow changed the political landscape.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b3737eafe544e86aec7bc92af9d9b0d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about 2002. Bill English\u201422 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e0caadaca59490fb9a0612bd4cf2207\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is no good for Mr Mallard to keep yelling and screaming about this. He really should listen, because he just needs to look at the graphs. This is not the National Party\u2019s view. This is not whether the Labour Party thinks this is a great Government or not. This is what the public think of the performance of their politicians. Once the John Key - led Government had won the election in 2008 what should have happened after that\u2014actually, I hear Mr Mallard say: \u201CTell us about 2002.\u201D Actually, Labour dropped in 2002 from what it had got in 1999. Yes, there was a huge aberration. For the first time in the history of the country an Opposition party\u2014National\u2014went down in 2002. It is the only time in the history of the graphs that that has happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EBut let us come back to the last 3 years, because this is where it gets interesting. This is where it gets frightening for the Labour Party. After the 2008 win by the John Key - led Government, Labour should have expected its poor performance, reflected in 2008, to start lifting and by 2011 be within sort of striking distance, and certainly by 2014 to be right knocking on the door and if it does not make it, well, you know, it is a little bit like the Brash-led party of 2005 when it did not quite make it but on the night you could not tell. But that is not what has happened\u2014that is not what has happened. My lesson to the Labour Party today is that you should be very, very afraid of what is going on, because you are not making any traction in the polls. You can get up and blame this Government and say that we are useless and we are hopeless and so on. I do not mind you doing that. But why are the public not responding to the Labour Party, as they normally would in Opposition? Labour members say: \u201CWe\u2019re coming back; we\u2019re coming back.\u201D. They are not. They have got very limited time. Elections are not won in the last 6 months of the 3-year period. You cannot do it. The history of it is that unless you have got yourself well back in the polls, you cannot do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EMy lesson to Labour members is that they need to really scurry around fast and say\u2014the polling is showing it. Our polling is showing it\u2014I am sure they are doing the same sort of polling\u2014and the general polls are showing it: Labour is actually lower in the polls now than it was 3 years ago or 6 years ago. The Labour leader is lower in the polls than previous other leaders, before Cunliffe and so on. So they have got a limited time frame. Instead of carping on about what a useless Government we are or how the National Party is not building enough houses, Labour members should go back to first principles and say: \u201CWhat is it we need to do to turn these polls round?\u201D. If they do not, they are guaranteed a fourth term in Opposition, and right now, the way they are polling, that is exactly where they are destined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002249651a4df6b24df19c7950ed938f7f16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249651a4df6b24df19c7950ed938f7f16\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour\u2014Kelston):\u003C/span\u003E Referring to the fact that Mr Williamson said Labour cannot do it, I just want to say: \u201CWatch this space, Mr Williamson. Watch this space.\u201D We can, and we will, Mr Williamson. Let us see what happens in 2017. We have listened to a few National Party speeches today. We had Tim Macindoe telling us that the Government is sticking to a plan that works\u2014the Government is sticking to a plan that works. Well, if the plan is to sell out New Zealand, then it is doing a good job of it. If the plan is to sell out the most vulnerable New Zealanders, then the Government is doing a good job of it. Mr Macindoe said that good public services do not necessarily mean expensive public services. Well, actually, $140,000 for a TV screen at the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, Mr Macindoe, is expensive in our minds. At least, Mr Macindoe, on this side of the House we want to put taxpayers\u2019 money into people, not into $140,000 TV screens, not into $74,000 reception desks, and not into $1,000 seats for people to sit on. We want to put our public money into the New Zealand public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe listened to Scott Simpson saying that Labour likes to talk about \u201Cno\u201D\u2014that the word on this side of the House is \u201Cno\u201D. They think that we are \u201Cno, no, no\u201D to good ideas. But let us reflect on what National has said no to over the 7 years that it has been Government. When National first got in, it said no to apprenticeships: \u201CWe can take money out of that. We don\u2019t need that.\u201D Then what happened? We had an earthquake, and we did not have the expertise here. The Government had to ship it in. The Government said no to things like healthy food in our schools. One of the first things that the Government did was cut the policy of healthy food in our schools, and now we see the Government struggling with the issue that we have with obesity and our children. Why did the Government remove that policy? We see the Government saying no to building houses in Auckland. There is a demand for housing in Auckland, and that Government says no to new houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThat side of the House has said no to healthy homes. We put up a healthy homes bill, and the Government said no to it. The Government does not care about the health and well-being of New Zealanders, even when we have instances like the one we had recently where a small child died because of the fact that she was living in an unhealthy home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe Government said no to extending paid parental leave. The Government said no to the paid parental leave bill that my colleague Sue Moroney put up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EA few years ago the Government said no to adult community education. It cut all the funding to adult community education, which for many people was their first step back into the education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe Government said no to the training incentive allowance, not wanting to support sole parents to be able to increase their earning capacity\u2014to increase their chances of getting a better-qualified, higher-paying job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe Government recently said no to KiwiSaver, thereby denying children who enter into the scheme the $1,000 incentive. The Government says that we are the party of \u201Cno\u201D, but its track record says that it is the party of \u201Cno\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI think the whole country should be concerned about the things that the Government has said yes to. It has said yes to foreign property speculators being able to buy our houses. Here we are with a housing market that it is difficult for New Zealand families to get into, and the Government still allows non-residents, non-citizens, to come here and buy our New Zealand houses, thereby driving the prices up and making it impossible for families to be able to get into their own home. The Government said yes to experimenting with our most vulnerable New Zealanders. The Government is now looking at introducing social impact bonds, when there has been no research done here that qualifies or justifies the Government being able to implement them. The Government said yes to selling out our social services to big multinational corporations. On Sunday we had the Minister for Social Development on Q\u002BA confirming that she would contemplate the idea of selling out our social services to a company like Serco, which has an international reputation such that no New Zealander would be happy about handing their social services over to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWhat else has the Government said yes to? It has said yes to the Conservative Party, despite the fact that the whole board walked out on that party. The Government has said yes to asset sales. That was not a very good economic strategy. The Government has said yes to Rio Tinto. The Government has said yes to Nick Smith, even. We have got all the evidence in the world to suggest that he is not doing a good job. The Government still says yes, and we have the Prime Minister saying that Nick Smith is outstanding. We might be saying no to some of what the National Party is suggesting, but we are justified in saying no to what it is doing. The Government is not justified in what it has said no to over the past 7 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u002278d86a3b72434c65aea774476ecb1aaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278d86a3b72434c65aea774476ecb1aaf\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E That speech has definitely proved that it is that side that is the \u201Cno\u201D party. This side believes in yes. It is under this National Government, under the leadership of the Rt Hon John Key, that our economy is growing, wages are rising, there are more jobs out there, inflation is negligible, and interest rates are staying lower for longer. This shows that our plan is working and that we are sticking to a plan that is working. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThis National Government is a very efficient and fair Government. For example, our tax system is fair to all. We believe in a low-rate tax system that responds to our needs in a planned manner. We believe in rewarding people for their hard work, not punishing people for their hard work. We believe in low compliance and administrative costs. It is this National Government that is working hard to minimise tax avoidance and evasion opportunities. Since 2008 it is this National Government that has given a reduction in the personal tax rate and a reduction in the company tax rate, and it is this National Government that has just announced firm rules around property taxes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThis has been possible because we have a plan that is working. We want to keep our taxes to the minimum, and that is why we rejected Labour\u2019s capital gains tax idea. Yes, we rejected the capital gains tax idea, which was Labour\u2019s idea. This is with the target of getting our net debt below 20 percent of GDP by 2020\u2014net debt below 20 percent of GDP by 2020. This is without putting any extra burden on taxpayers. Again, this has been possible because we have a plan that is working. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIt is under this National Government that the number of people who are under the age of 20 and who are not in any employment and who are not in any training or education is the lowest since 2004. Yes, the lowest since 2004. Is it not a great achievement of this National Government? Yes, it is a great achievement of this National Government. This National Government is working hard to reduce welfare dependency. We are working hard to uplift skills in our people. We are working hard to reduce crime, and we are working hard to improve interaction with Government. By working in these areas, we are getting better outcomes for our people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EWhen you talk to people, what do they want? They want, firstly, good educations for their children, and they are getting that under this National Government. They want jobs. Yes, they are getting jobs, because there are more jobs being created under this National Government. And the next thing they want is to be safe, and that is another great achievement of this National Government, because under this National Government crime is the lowest since 1978. Yes, and this has been possible because this National Government is hard on crime. This National Government is hard on criminals. We have more cops on roads. Yes, we have more cops on roads because we have provided them with modern-day technology: smartphones and tablets. So instead of sitting in their offices, they are on roads. Each cop is saving 30 minutes of their office time, and that equals 354 additional cops on roads. That equals half a million hours of cops on roads New Zealand - wide per annum, and that is how we have the lowest crime since 1978 under this National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EOur justice system is focused on the rights of victims. New Zealand families deserve to feel safe in their homes and communities, and our strategy is working. Our approach is working. Our plan is working, and that is why, in Budget 2015, $218.6 million was allocated to do that, and $40 million was allocated to improve services and efficiencies in targeted areas in justice and courts. By investing in these agencies, we are getting better outcomes for New Zealand families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EOur money that is allocated for the Serious Fraud Office shows that we are really serious about our international reputation, because New Zealand is known as a safe place to do business and invest. This National Government takes any kind of misuse very seriously. This National Government has already saved $60 million of taxpayers\u2019 money since we started the national benefit fraud reform initiative over 2 years ago. Yes, $60 million of taxpayers\u2019 money was saved by this National Government. There are 9,500 people off benefits, because they were on because of benefit fraud. They are off benefits. There are 9,500 people off benefits. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00223fc72a9c59334df29aa3ac53daa151b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fc72a9c59334df29aa3ac53daa151b0\u0022\u003EPEENI HENARE (Labour\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Thank you for allowing me this opportunity to finish, certainly, the debate from this side of the House. As I start, I would like to acknowledge Norm Berryman and his passing, and pay my respects to him. I played club rugby with Norm Berryman in the far north, and he will be sorely missed amongst the people in the north. Our prayers and our thoughts are with him and his family. Norm Berryman was able to slice through the middle of some of the best rugby teams in the world. He was able to pick out some of the smallest gaps and exploit their weaknesses. You do not need such a keen eye as Norm Berryman\u2019s to find the weaknesses in this current Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWhat we are seeing from this Government is confusion. The campaign picture of all rowing in the same direction is but a distant memory. Housing\u2014let us take housing, for example. We have two Ministers in particular engaging in what seems like an icy cold stare. That icy cold stare is around the right of first refusal. It seems to me that what this Government is doing is trampling on the integrity and the so-called good faith that was entered into with the iwi of T\u0101maki-makau-rau in making sure that they have the right of first refusal on land to allow them to develop it for the well-being of their people. You do not need to look too far to know that it is probably strategic that Minister Smith is behind Minister Finlayson, so that they are not able to engage further in that long, cold, icy stare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EYou throw into the mix, into that whole right of first refusal, the M\u0101ori Party\u2014the M\u0101ori Party, which since getting into bed with the National Government has claimed that \u201CWe are at the table; we are able to influence these decisions.\u201D Well, what happened when the right of first refusal came around? All those members could say was: \u201CWell, we\u2019ve written a letter to the Prime Minister.\u201D What happened to this solid relationship that they claim out in our regions? What happened to this \u201CWe are getting the benefits for our people.\u201D? What it showed me is that they, just like anyone on this side of the House, only have the power to write a letter to the Prime Minister. And what has been the answer? Silence\u2014exactly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI want to talk a little bit about poverty, too. Just not long ago, all this Government talked about was how it was focusing on poverty, how it was pouring all of this money into identifying what poverty is and how it was going to fix it. Well, at the moment, just like the previous question I just asked, what is the answer, and what is it doing now? Nothing. It slipped entirely off the radar. The Government has forgotten about poverty. It has forgotten about the regions. Why? Because it does not know how to invest in them. It does not know how to solve these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ETo some of the more positive economic things\u2014tourism. Just before I came down here, I was in my office with the chief executive of Tourism New Zealand, who was giving me a great conversation and a great presentation about how well tourism is doing. So then why, when members of this Government attended particular seminars and conferences with the tourism industry, which clearly said to them: \u201CWe do not want a tax for people who are coming in and out of this country.\u201D\u2014what did this Government do? It turned its back on that industry. It was a complete surprise, in the Budget announcement, to the tourism\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264f8ccebd4f3469da74fa9359e2e49e8\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: They deceived them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d9ced40921a458f97de75fb2fea30ee\u0022\u003EPEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: They deceived them. It was a complete surprise to the tourism industry when that announcement was made during the Budget. In fact, I have received numerous complaints about this Government not listening to the tourism industry. It is such a valuable industry in this country, and this Government turns its back on it. This is not a Government with a plan, or a future, or a hope. I have already mentioned the campaign picture of rowing in one direction. Well, it looks like not everybody is wearing a blue T-shirt. In this case, they are all rowing the wrong way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EFinally, we talk about the holes and the party falling apart. If there is one thing that sticks together in this party\u2014I am reminded of a dag on the rear end of a sheep. We know just how sticky that can be, and just how unified that can be, but we know just how important sheep are to this particular Government. A little bit of sand might be able to help with those dags on the back of a sheep. We hope that this Government actually wakes up to its own arrogance, but it is a little bit difficult when all you do is talk to yourselves about all the important matters facing New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EFinally, we here on this side of the House have a positive look for the future. We are looking with aspiration for the future of New Zealand. M\u0101ori Television will see better days. Housing will see better days. T\u0113n\u0101 koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c501c5f07d542b39623c9bedecdbb5a\u0022\u003EUnderground Coal Mining Safety Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a9470f10dcaa4f12961ac7813a168f60\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000355\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 3 June.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00220460a1d1772e482c94ebee2c3d22c729\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220460a1d1772e482c94ebee2c3d22c729\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: The last time we were considering this bill, Jonathan Young was speaking. He has 1 minute left, if he so wishes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022d833e61988a441ebb4d879bf30861090\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d833e61988a441ebb4d879bf30861090\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. Yes, absolutely, I do want to take up my 1 minute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the honourable member Damien O\u2019Connor, who put this bill in. Everything in politics is a matter of timing, and perhaps when the bill was lodged in the ballot the timing was right, but it is not right now because legislation has overtaken the intent of this bill. The legislation has overtaken the intent of this bill, and, in fact, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment produced this document in 2013, which says Safe mines: safe workers\u2014New laws\u2014new laws\u2014on mining health and safety: A quick guide for mine operators. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ECan I just mention a couple of things it says in the introduction? It says: \u201CThe Government has recently made changes to the laws concerning health and safety in the mining industry. This is in response to the recommendations of the Royal Commission on the Pike River Coal Mine Tragedy and will bring New Zealand\u2019s approach to mining health and safety into line with international best practice.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f75024d5c22a459f8cb11c7cfa7014f2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I regret to inform the member his time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa0ba77b3ece4eaf90cecf2da04ac7b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa0ba77b3ece4eaf90cecf2da04ac7b2\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I want to acknowledge my colleague the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor for introducing the Underground Coal Mining Safety Bill as a response to the tragedy that occurred within his own electorate, which so deeply affected his electorate and which, to this day, still so deeply affects his electorate. I want to just comment on the final comment made by Jonathan Young there. He said that timing is everything, and that there once was a time when this bill might have had a place but that that time has gone and has been overtaken by events and been overtaken by all the actions that the Government has taken. Oh, if only that were the case. If only the Government actually maintained the focus on health and safety that it had in the days and weeks after the Pike River disaster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt was a wake-up call for all of us. Years and years of reliance on the ideological view that deregulation was the answer to everything led us, ultimately, to that tragedy occurring. In the days and weeks after it the Prime Minister said and did all the right things. The Government members said and did all the right things. They knew that they had no choice. It was politically untenable for the Government not to address health and safety not only in the mining sector but in all other industries in New Zealand. Our health and safety record in this country is woeful. We have twice the rate of death and injury that they have in the United Kingdom, and in Australia their rate of injury at work is around just two-thirds what ours is here in New Zealand. We have to act. We have known that for a long time, but it took this tragedy to get the Government to actually take action. And yes, it did some things, but as time has gone on, as Pike River has become more and more of a distant memory, and, as we get close to the 5-year anniversary of that tragic day, it has become something that has slipped slowly off the National Party\u2019s political radar. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt is out of frustration for the fact that that has happened that my colleague Damien O\u2019Connor has introduced this legislation and left it on the Order Paper, even though it has been sitting on the Order Paper for some time because of the National Party\u2019s filibustering of a range of members\u2019 bills on members\u2019 day. It has remained on the Order Paper because it is still relevant. In fact, it is more relevant now, with the National Party divided over health and safety, than it was a month ago. The National Party now is not sure if it wants to water down the health and safety reforms that it is introducing or beef them up with corporate manslaughter. It has no idea what it is doing on this. It is getting pulled in all directions by all its different corporate interests\u2014by Talley\u2019s, which want there to be no health and safety legislation at all in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227405a8fb4be74663a6c35541265531e3\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: And they\u2019ve got the money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddcedb9e486849cbb2b6778acff1aec1\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: And they have got the money, too. That is why: out of frustration that the Government has failed to actually finish the job and make sure that not only our underground coal mines are safe, but our quarries are safe, our forests are safe, our farms are safe, and our fishing vessels are safe\u2014all those industries that are killing and maiming New Zealanders. We should still be focused like a laser on addressing those issues. But it is no longer a focus for this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe are still waiting to see what it is that the Government wants to do, since it has delayed the health and safety legislation. We have no idea what it is that the Government actually plans to do with that legislation. I think it has no idea what it plans to do with that legislation. All it knows is it is not in its DNA to make workplaces safer. So I say to the Government members: demonstrate to the people of New Zealand that it is in your DNA, that it is something that you are committed to, and that it is something you are focused on by supporting this legislation in the name of the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor. Do not forget Pike River\u2014do not forget Pike River. Finish the job and make not only our mines safer but every workplace in New Zealand safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022 data-id=\u002214daac8326e940ad80fa774beec9e8d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214daac8326e940ad80fa774beec9e8d6\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity. First of all, I would like to commend Mr O\u2019Connor for his initiative in bringing this bill to the House, his motivation for bringing this bill to the House, and, last but not least, his obvious action, because actions are what matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThis bill was brought to the House as a result of the Pike River disaster, but I would like to also acknowledge that it is part of a concerted effort that is going on in health and safety, not just in this House but in industries across the country. The Government is aiming to reduce deaths by 25 percent by 2020. Some of those initiatives include the maritime operator safety system, the \u201CMOSS\u201D regulations, which have been in for about 12 months. The forestry sector is collaborating together to increase the health and safety of its workers. FarmSafe is working with Federated Farmers, who are working with WorkSafe and are engaged in a whole lot of initiatives to make sure that their workers are safe. The previous speaker suggested that this party is not concerned about the safety of workers in this country. That is just totally rejected. That is why we have introduced the Health and Safety Reform Bill, which has, as has already been mentioned, superseded this member\u2019s bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EI agree with Mr Lees-Galloway. The statistics in this country are not good\u201475 deaths per year is not a good record. About 40 percent or, let us just put it another way, about 29 people die in the agriculture sector alone every year\u2014the same number of people who died in the Pike River disaster. That is every year. That is just every year, and that has got to be considered. There are going to be thousands of injuries, let alone the deaths, and thousands of families who are affected by slack, poor health and safety regulations and practices that have been in this country for too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EAs a result of the Pike River inquiry there are 16 recommendations. I can tell the House that they have all been considered and implemented, including consideration of the Australian mining regulations, which are the basis of this member\u2019s bill. As I say, because the Health and Safety Reform Bill has superseded the member\u2019s bill, I cannot support Mr O\u2019Connor\u2019s bill. But it is not just about the paperwork. It is not just about the bill; it is about attitude and culture, which are the key drivers to having a safe environment. \u201CShe\u2019ll be right\u201D when it comes to health and safety is not right. A bit of No. 8 wire is not good enough when it comes to the health and safety of our colleagues and workmates. This cultural change that will take place will take time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge at this point the previous chief executive officer of Transpower from 2007 to 2014, Dr Patrick Strange, who, at the top of his agenda at every board meeting, had as an agenda item not the financials and the number of kilometres of cable that had been strung up but the health and safety record of the Transpower board over the previous month. He has led the way since before I was on that board, and he is an example of leadership in the field of health and safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EWe need to continue to lead from the front. Just think about 20 years ago when we talked about drink-driving culture. The laws were put in place, but we know my parents and my grandparents continued to drink and drive. How long did seatbelts take to get in place? That took years. I recall my parents not putting their seatbelt on, despite the law, and my old man was a cop. So it is about a change in culture and attitude that must take place; it is not just going to be about the legislation. But we will persist and we must persist in developing the health and safety legal framework, and we must get it right. To Mr Lees-Galloway\u2019s point\u2014we must get it right and a couple of weeks will not hurt. It is important for the benefit of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u002223a7686780e24e75873023835d1515c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223a7686780e24e75873023835d1515c2\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I attended most days of the hearings of the Royal Commission on the Pike River Coal Mine Tragedy. It was unusual for the commissioners themselves to ask many questions, but one of the ones that really sticks in my mind was a question asked by Stewart Bell, one of the commissioners. In his day job he is the Commissioner for Mine Safety and Health Queensland. He asked Doug White, who is one of the managers from Pike River and an extremely experienced coalminer, whether in his experience he had ever encountered a situation where the regulator had made no notices to the mining company for any changes or improvements in health and safety. Doug White answered no. Commissioner Bell was clearly aghast at the gulf that existed between Queensland mine safety regulations and those that pertained in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThat gulf came from decades of Governments that either had actively shrunk the State and the role of the State, or had not done enough to pull that role back and reverse those changes. The two particular axe blows to mine-worker safety came in the 1990s at the hands, particularly, of Bill Birch and Max Bradford when they gutted mine safety regulations and then eliminated the role of check inspectors and largely dismantled the Government\u2019s mine inspection service as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI live close to the Pike River coalmine site. Many of those affected directly by the tragedy were my friends and neighbours. I am proud of the role I played in forcing the Government from its initial position of stonewalling and a Bart Simpson \u201CNothing to see here\u201D attitude into, instead, first creating the High Hazards Unit and then Worksafe New Zealand, and overhauling mine safety regulations, and then overhauling workplace health and safety legislation. Those have all been good developments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe question is whether or not enough has been done. The picture I certainly have is of a Government that is very much in two minds. I think Iain Lees-Galloway is right that one of those minds was forced by the circumstances that immediately followed the Pike River disaster. I do not believe that any of those changes that the Government has made have gone as far as I would take them. On the next day after the publication of the royal commission\u2019s report, I asked the Prime Minister whether he accepted that deregulation had been a primary cause of the disaster. He did not. He did not accept it. When we considered the first of the Government\u2019s health and safety bills, we had the quarrying industry submitting that it should be exempted from some of the measures that pertained to mining and quarrying, and it won. The Government allowed the industry to be exempted from those provisions, with tragic consequences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI am certainly reminded of a question that I asked a former Minister, Kate Wilkinson, on a number of occasions. I asked her whether on the day before the Pike River disaster she would have said that the Government had done all it could to ensure the safety of miners going to work that day. It was a very difficult question for her to answer because there is always something we can do. So what I ask in relation to this bill is what can possibly be wrong with our allowing this bill to go forward to a select committee to enable members of the public, mine workers, and the companies themselves to tell us whether enough has been done? What can be more important for us in this House than to ensure that mine workers go to work each day and then come home?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u00222708ca78fabb4ff8800ae4eb51bace93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222708ca78fabb4ff8800ae4eb51bace93\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E No one can doubt the genuine intention behind this Underground Coal Mining Safety Bill that is before us today. Each of us clearly remembers the tragedy at Pike River, the enormous national wave of feeling and reaction, and, later on, the deliberations and the debate of the royal commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThis Government has acted on all of the recommendations of the royal commission. One of these recommendations specified or requested the urgent establishment of an \u201Ceffective regulatory framework for underground coal mining\u201D. At that time reference was made to the Queensland and also the New South Wales mining industries as demonstrating best practice. As a result, this Government has worked with those areas and the experts from those areas and also with our own coalmining industry in order to improve and develop our own safety regulations to ensure that a disaster like Pike River cannot or should not happen again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EFollowing on from this, in late 2013 Parliament passed legislation to significantly improve work safety in this country and included specific new regulations to address the coalmining industry. There were six principle provisions that were put forward through that legislation. The first one was about putting in place health and safety management systems. The second one was about appointing people to the newly created High Hazards Unit, part of WorkSafe New Zealand. I note that 17 of those High Hazards Unit inspectors have already been appointed and are in place. The third one was about ensuring workers meet new competency requirements; the fourth about complying with strengthened emergency standards and, related to that, making sure that we had the right emergency preparedness; and, finally, the fifth was about having notification and reporting requirements that were suitable and appropriate. WorkSafe New Zealand has been established and its funding has been recently boosted by $30 million. The High Hazards Unit, as I mentioned before, is already in operation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI also note that the Government has made changes to the Electricity (Safety) Regulations 2010 to complement the new mining regulations. Three new changes were made. The first one was about ensuring the competency of those carrying out electrical work in mining operations is appropriate, the second was about improving the design requirements, assessments, and verification of safety for mining equipment, and the last was about regulating and endorsing the technical requirements and maintenance of equipment used in mines. Other changes have been made to the Health and Safety in Employment Act 1992. They have been specifically tailored to this industry. These came into force in December 2013. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAs a result of the Government\u2019s wide-ranging reforms, New Zealand\u2019s current approach towards health and safety is nearing best practice. The Government has clearly demonstrated its determination to continue the process towards making sure all workers operating in the coalmining industry are safe and that we have in place the appropriate safety practices. The reforms aim to reduce injury and death by 25 percent by the year 2020. WorkSafe New Zealand is one of the most significant overall reforms. It currently carries out about 12,500 operational inspections each year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe new Health and Safety Reform Bill is currently before the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee and has been subject to long and lengthy debate. We have had the opportunity to hear many submissions. We are committed to getting it right. It is a collaborative effort with all parties in Parliament. I do note that in schedule 2 of the original draft of the bill there is specific mention of an area dealing with the mining industry. All these important initiatives have consequently pre-empted the proposals of this bill and rendered its introduction redundant in view of the wide scope of changes and the overarching regulations that have already come into place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAlthough commending the purpose of the Underground Coal Mining Safety Bill, this National Government considers it to be a duplication of all the good work that has gone on and is currently going on. As such, we do not support its introduction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u002201aa9b050cf746f3bc296a683c1a524e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201aa9b050cf746f3bc296a683c1a524e\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a short call for New Zealand First on this very important matter, the Underground Coal Mining Safety Bill, introduced by the honourable member Damien O\u2019Connor. I, unlike Jonathan Young, will not hold out until the end of my speech to let you know where we stand as a party. In fact, it was at the very last minute, in extra time, that he told us where National was going to go with it, and it was no surprise to us that, of course, National members do not support it. New Zealand First wants to come out strongly, in the strongest of terms, to say that we support this initiative by the honourable member Damien O\u2019Connor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI stand with pride, because if my grandfather was alive today he would be very much appreciative that we have got the likes of the Labour Party and the Greens and New Zealand First supporting this bill, because it is looking after the welfare of our workers. My grandfather was the head of the miners\u2019 union for some 20 years and was actually present in 1967 when they had the Strongman Mine disaster where 19 men lost their lives. Now we are coming up to 5 years this year since the death toll of 29 workers who lost their lives at Pike River. This is the largest issue that we have got around the country. This is a bigger issue than how much we are paying as a minimum wage for our workers. Every single worker in this country has the right to absolutely be guaranteed that they are going to go home after work. We as a country have got an appalling record in terms of health and safety when we compare ourselves to the likes of Australia, the United Kingdom, Germany, and the USA. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI asked to be on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, which many of my friends across the House are a part of as well. We are right in the middle of deliberations on the Health and Safety Reform Bill, and yet again time has been extended even further. What we are trying to say here is that we have got a bill in place that could be implemented rather quickly and under some sort of urgency to look after the lives of those mine workers. It was only 10 days ago that another quarry worker was killed. I know it was not an underground mining situation, but it just goes to show the lackadaisical legislation we have got around health and safety in this country. Yes, after Pike River the Government came out and said it wanted to do something about it. It said it would act quickly and put some regulations in place and make sure that the death toll comes down in this sector. What it did not do was actually fund health and safety adequately to ensure that those regulations were actually managed and policed adequately to ensure that those deaths stopped happening, and, of course, we are still finding the same old story. We are going over and over it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI urge this Government to change its position of not supporting this bill. I would like to say also that Damien O\u2019Connor has been in Parliament for some 22 years, and for all but 3 of those years he has held the seat of West Coast - Tasman. He has held that seat and he stands up and speaks for those people because he actually gets to see them and speak to them on a regular basis. When he has to go and talk to his constituents from his area and explain to them that he is doing everything he can, it is frustrating for him to actually not be able to go back with something solid that is supported\u2014not for any political reasons but for good reasons\u2014in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI would just like to finish by saying that the coal mining industry makes up about 2.5 percent of our country\u2019s GDP and about 6.2 percent of our total exports. But it actually does more than that. For our regions, particularly in the West Coast - Tasman area, it makes up about 40 percent of our GDP. It has high-quality workers who are well and truly getting paid over and above the New Zealand average wage, and, of course, down there the average wage is about $105,000 a year. The industry provides about 8,000 jobs. If we do not do something to keep our workers safe, if we do not do something to look after this industry for our regional and rural parts of the country, we are going to be in a very dire situation in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EWe are waiting with bated breath for the current legislation, the Health and Safety Reform Bill, to go through, and we urge the members of the Government on the benches opposite to support the Underground Coal Mining and Safety Bill in the name of the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor. We commend this bill to the select committee. We hope it gets support. It makes good sense for it to get support, and we wish it all the best in its endeavours. We will never forget the tragedy of Pike River. We will never forget the tragedies of the Strongman Mine, Ralph\u2019s Mine, and other disasters around the country. Those memories will be etched in the minds of all those family members and New Zealanders who were there and know people who lost their lives on those very sad days. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022 data-id=\u002251dfe99727704585a555f009891b279a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251dfe99727704585a555f009891b279a\u0022\u003ESARAH DOWIE (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in opposition to the Underground Coal Mining Safety Bill, but, as my colleagues have done, I will not move any further without acknowledging the intention behind this bill. It is extremely admirable that the member Damien O\u2019Connor has brought this to the floor in response to a tragedy that should not have happened, and that, of course, is the Pike River mine tragedy. We are shortly coming up to the anniversary of that disaster where 29 men on the West Coast lost their lives. I can certainly say as someone who comes from a tight-knit community that when a tragedy such as that occurs, everybody would have known one, if not many, of those men, and my sympathies are with those families in that community, where such a huge and significant tragedy has occurred. It was a tragedy that should never have happened, but now we need to move forward and certainly learn from it. But as my other colleagues have mentioned, time has moved on and events have superseded this bill. Following on from Pike River, there was, of course, the royal commission into the tragedy and there were 16 recommendations from its report. It should be noted that the Government has adopted those recommendations, and one of those, of course, is to reform our law in respect of health and safety, acknowledging that New Zealanders as a culture require a step change in health and safety\u2014a step change in how we view it, and a step change in how we deal with health and safety in the workplace\u2014and that is certainly something that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee has been looking at over the past months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EI just want to pick up on a point raised by the member opposite\u2014Mr Lees-Galloway. He suggested that this side of the House is deliberately slowing down the legislation. Well, yes, we are, because we want to get health and safety legislation right. This is the biggest reform in 25 years, and we need to make sure that the law is fit for purpose. We have a new concept coming into play, a PCBU, or person conducting a business or undertaking, and we must make sure that that is fit for purpose not only for our large, high-risk industries but also for the businesses that are low risk. But in acknowledging that in respect of Pike River, in 2013 new regulations were introduced in respect of mining administration, and what they did was require mining operators to \u201Cput in place new health and safety management systems; appoint people to new safety critical roles; make sure their workers meet new competency requirements; comply with strengthened minimum standards; meet new requirements for emergency preparedness \u2026 and; meet notification and reporting requirements.\u201D So that in itself is a step change, but this new Government bill coming into play, a bill that will again raise the bar, means that New Zealanders have to take health and safety seriously and look at it as an integral part of their business. As part of that the Government has established WorkSafe New Zealand, and the challenge will lie with it to get the balance between carrot and stick to encourage businesses to look at their safety culture, but also to take a hard line on those operators who are not compliant with health and safety laws and are not putting their people first in respect of health and safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EI just want to touch on some statistics. Obviously, it is part of the Government\u2019s programme to reduce deaths and injuries at work by 20 percent by 2020. If we look across some of those high-risk sectors we can see that we definitely need a reduction\u2014for example, in the rural agriculture sector there were 20 deaths last year. So this legislation is timely. I am not apologetic for slowing it down. We need to take a look at it. We need to take this law reform seriously. It is the biggest law reform in health and safety in 25 years. But in respect of this bill from Damien O\u2019Connor, it has been superseded by events, and despite the intention we oppose the first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u00225722f75bd92e4b71b16df91b0c74dd21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225722f75bd92e4b71b16df91b0c74dd21\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise in support of this bill put forward by my colleague the Hon Damien O\u2019Conner. If only what the last speaker, Sarah Dowie, said was true. If only events actually had made this an irrelevant debate for this Parliament\u2014I would be fine with that. I would be ecstatic about that, because that would mean that workers in workplaces, particularly the most dangerous workplace of New Zealand\u2014mines\u2014would be safe. But, sadly, that is not the case, and that is why we are debating this very important bill. That Government opposite has not seen fit to make this issue a priority, as it should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI recall speaking on one of the readings of the bill that the Government has passed with regard to mines safety, and I remember imploring this Government to never forget what we have learnt from the Pike River mine and the tragedy that unfolded there. I remember also saying to those members: \u201CPlease don\u2019t do what I think this Parliament is guilty of doing in forgetting the Cave Creek tragedy and all the lessons that we learnt from that particular series of tragic events.\u201D It appears to me that the National Government is going to go down that same path again. It forgot about what it learnt from the tragedy of not having strong enough regulations when it came to Cave Creek, and it is about to do it again with regard to what the royal commission has told us about the outcomes of the Pike River mine tragedy, and it is not even that very long ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EAs many speakers in this debate have said, on the West Coast, where my good colleague Damien O\u2019Connor is the MP and represents that area particularly well, it is just as though it happened yesterday. It is just as though that tragic event happened yesterday for the people of the West Coast, and the Government is already forgetting the lessons. We know that it is forgetting the lessons, because it is holding up the Health and Safety Reform Bill at the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2014it is really clear that that is what is occurring. There is disagreement in the ranks of the National Government. Members cannot seem to get their act together around this. The Government is falling apart around this issue. Meanwhile the people of the West Coast wait. Meanwhile the people in workplaces up and down the land wait for the National Party to try to get its act together so that we can ensure that workers return home safely after they have been to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI agree with the person who spoke from New Zealand First, because, actually, this issue does surpass what one gets paid at work. There is no point getting a great wage at work if you cannot actually perform the function safely. If you are not going to make it home to your family, there is no point in what the size of the pay cheque is. This issue of health and safety should be paramount, and it should be at the forefront of that Government\u2019s thinking. It should be a priority for Government members, but what are they doing? Instead, they are voting against this legislation, and they also watered down the legislation that came from the royal commission where the commission said that the legislation should have also have covered quarry workers. National watered that down, and we saw the sorry consequences of that just a few weeks ago, and it is doing the same thing with the Health and Safety Reform bill. It is attempting to water that piece of legislation down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285ce9183f7f04c7e849e783a4360179e\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: How would you know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a48faebfbb1f41a082e87276283721d6\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would know because I am on the select committee, actually, Mr Bishop. That is how I would know. That Government is attempting to water down the legislation, and that member will know this because he is in the National Party caucus where they have been debating how they are going to water down the recommendations from the royal commission. That is right. The recommendations of the royal commission have become an item for debate in the National Party caucus because those members cannot agree on whether they think workers\u2019 health and safety, particularly in the dangerous workplace of mines, should be paramount or not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI just recently learnt that my husband\u2019s great-grandfather, who was an MP for the \u014Chinemuri area, did several good pieces of legislation to ensure that the miners in that community were made safe many, many decades ago. To me, it is an absolute travesty that I am standing here debating the same issues that are still not addressed and, thanks to that National Government, will continue not to be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u002253f785098c8b4aca96f44efb90480a14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253f785098c8b4aca96f44efb90480a14\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the Underground Coal Mining Safety Bill, which is in the name of Damien O\u2019Connor. The purpose of this bill is to, on an interim basis, bring in better protection and safety for underground coalminers here in New Zealand by adopting Queensland\u2019s regulatory framework until we have a better process in place. I can see that this bill is inspired by the Pike River mine tragedy, so before I get into this bill I would like to say that my heart and thoughts go out to the Pike River miners and their families. The whole country\u2014yes, the whole country\u2014was mourning after those explosions. Everyone expects to return home safely after their day at work. Health and safety is critical. Health and safety at work is important. Employees and employers both know that health and safety is important. Employers know that if they have a safe workplace, their employees are happy, they feel safe, and they are more productive. There are fewer interruptions, which leads to less cost to business, because all such interruptions always lead to some kind of cost. Cost aside, in serious cases, it can lead to injury or even the death of workers. No one can deny that workplace health and safety is important, but things get overlooked and accidents do happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EAccording to the type of industry, there may be sometimes some specific requirements, measures, and practices that are required to be in place, and these measures and practices should be able to address physical, psychological, environmental, and other health and safety issues. Coalmining is a worldwide industry and the way of mining depends on the geology of the coal deposit. Open-cast mining\u2014yes, it is economical but the coal seam should be close to the surface. Underground coalmining is comparatively a very complex process. It is not as simple as just adopting another country or region\u2019s regulatory framework because it requires a good understanding of local coal deposits and technical and operational requirements. It requires good strategic planning. It requires good risk management. Also we need people who bring the right kind of expertise, because it is a very complex and hazardous industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI can see the reason for this bill but this National Government has already done a lot in that direction. This National Government has already fulfilled that commitment that it made after that Pike River tragedy. This was in November 2010 when this National Government initiated a royal commission of inquiry and then it was November 2012 when the royal commission made its report public. Then in December 2012 this National Government released its plan to implement the key recommendations that were made by the royal commission. For that, the Independent Taskforce on Workplace Health and Safety was given the task of advising the Government on workplace health and safety and also on the structure and form of a new independent regulator for workplace health and safety. So this National Government has already developed an effective framework for mining\u2014all kinds of mining, not just underground coalmining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI would like to actually list a few things that are already done. Legislation arising from the Health and Safety (Pike River Implementation) Bill established a new workplace health and safety agency\u2014that is, WorkSafe New Zealand\u2014and implemented key recommendations of the royal commission. Three Acts were created by the Health and Safety (Pike River Implementation) Bill: The WorkSafe New Zealand Act 2013, the Health and Safety in Employment Amendment Act 2013, and the Mines Rescue Act. So we can see that this National Government has already fulfilled its commitment to the royal commission\u2019s recommendations. I can see the reason behind this bill, but this bill is unnecessary because this National Government is already investing significantly in health and safety. We know that working safer reforms in the Health and Safety Reform Bill before the House are to reduce injuries and the death toll by 25 percent by 2020. WorkSafe New Zealand is assessing 12,500 businesses every year. We do not support this bill because this bill is completely unnecessary. This National Government has already done a lot in that direction. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00228e577e43b1b54aa5985d37c0189c22d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e577e43b1b54aa5985d37c0189c22d1\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E In reply, thank you for the opportunity, and I appreciate those members who have contributed to this bill, the Underground Coal Mining Safety Bill. This was my best attempt to react and to take action from the report of the Royal Commission on the Pike River Coal Mine Tragedy. It said, as one of its first things to do: \u201CMajor change required and fast\u201D. I drafted a bill. The only avenue available to me was through the member\u2019s bill process, and I put this bill in there. Unfortunately, it took some time to be pulled out. In the meantime, I acknowledge that the Government took the recommendations and developed changes to mining regulations and legislation, and then promised to move on health and safety. There are 29 families who will remind each and every one of us of the failings of Parliament and the failings of legislation to put in place proper protection for their loved ones in underground coalmining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAbout 2 months prior to the Pike River disaster, having written to the Minister of Labour at the time warning her about conditions in the coalmining industry, I received a reply: \u201CI am advised by the Department of Labour that there is no recent change in the pattern of mining serious harm notifications that might give cause for concern.\u201D That Minister has long gone, but what I have heard from the Government in this debate is the same naive approach to health and safety and to mining regulations that that Minister had swallowed also. In the process of development of the legislation that has been passed now for underground mine safety, the quarrying industry lobbied to be excluded, even though it is acknowledged as being a high-risk industry, and now this Parliament will be reminded by three other families who have lost loved ones in the short space of time\u2014in fact, in this year alone\u2014in the quarrying sector that they wanted their loved ones to return home from work as well, and the legislation and the absence of regulation for quarrying meant that those workers were not protected. Scott Baldwin, Tane Hill-Ormsby, and Murray Taylor have been killed in their workplaces because the National Government was lobbied to make changes to the proposals from the Pike River disaster and the recommendations from the royal commission, and it dumbed down that legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWhat I say in the House here is that the Government has made changes to underground mining regulations and safety, and made some improvements, but it has also made compromises as well. What I ask through this legislation is that the Government would support the bill going to a select committee to enable us to review the progress that has been made and to ask the question of whether we need to make further changes. At the moment, the wider body of health and safety legislation has been parked up because the Government is subject to lobbying. In the same way, there may be families in the future who have every right to come to this House and say \u201CYou failed my partner. You failed my husband.\u201D\u2014not you, Mr Assistant Speaker, but this House\u2014because we ignored the wisdom before us and, through lobbying, dumbed down legislation and did not have in place the proper protection for people at work. This bill is a legitimate way of having a comprehensive review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the Green Party and New Zealand First for their support\u2014they too see the wisdom\u2014and I would like to acknowledge my West Coast colleague Kevin Hague, who has always stood beside me in trying to force the Government into a better space on health and safety legislation. The 1992 legislation and the regime were based on a flawed philosophy, but this Government\u2019s oversight is based on flawed information, and so we face a situation where, because of lobbying and because of bad information, this National Government is going to vote down this piece of legislation. This is a lost opportunity that would have allowed us to review the progress that we should be making in mining, quarrying, and workplace health and safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224af9678ecce546a498e6a8c1f651046a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Underground Coal Mining Safety Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b7926939a3e44356bb401f9c3b8b232a\u0022\u003EElectoral (Adjustment of Thresholds) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e574e9b653e2481f90b97509845e734c\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0aee0dffb7148d08b24868578dc0ce5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0aee0dffb7148d08b24868578dc0ce5\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Electoral (Adjustment of Thresholds) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice and Electoral Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the Justice and Electoral Committee be instructed that as part of its consideration of the Electoral (Adjustment of Thresholds) Amendment Bill, it may consider any amendment based upon the recommendations of the MMP review conducted by the Electoral Commission in 2012.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis bill is the result of a long process that is worth recalling in order to give the bill some context. It began with the announcement by the Government that it would hold a referendum on whether or not New Zealand should continue to use MMP as our system for electing our Parliament. As part of the legislation that enacted that referendum, it was agreed by Parliament that should New Zealand vote in favour of retaining MMP, a review would be carried out to consider some of the issues that members of Parliament on all sides understood that the public had around MMP. In the event, it did come to pass that New Zealanders did vote to retain MMP, but it was clear to us all that there were issues with the system that the public wanted us to address. So the review as legislated for was carried out, and the review reported back to Parliament with a number of recommendations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Justice referred the review to the leaders of all political parties represented in Parliament at the time, asking for their views on the recommendations of the MMP review, and each political party responded to the Minister of Justice with their views on each of those recommendations. At that point the Minister of Justice declared that there was no consensus, and the process stopped. It was in response to the fact that the process was not going to be continued by the Government that my former colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel drafted this legislation. Upon her retirement from Parliament I picked up the legislation, and shortly after I did that, it was drawn from the ballot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe bill does three things. First, it abolishes the one-seat threshold that allows parties that do not reach the party vote threshold to bring list MPs into Parliament; secondly, it reduces the party vote threshold from 5 percent to 4 percent; and, thirdly, it allows for a review of the party vote threshold after three elections with the new party vote threshold in place. It is important that we consider why we need to implement these recommendations from the MMP review. The one-seat threshold has never really served any real purpose in the New Zealand context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c0f7c683cba46ef94ef2570edbf7de6\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: It increases proportionality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266b1965123864e2d8b8ce449337c9ea5\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I will address the point that Chris Bishop has interjected on. The one-seat threshold was simply a carry-over from the German system. In the German system there are a number of states. There are regional parties that must reach a three-electorate threshold in order to bring list MPs into the federal Parliament, and that has actually occurred only on four occasions since MMP was introduced to the German system in 1949. The royal commission that recommended the shift to MMP recommended the one-seat threshold in the context of abolishing the M\u0101ori seats. Of course, M\u0101ori seats were never abolished, and therefore the one-seat threshold was never required. I do accept the point made by Chris Bishop that a consequence of retaining the one-seat threshold is that it can, in certain circumstances, increase proportionality, but that was not the purpose for introducing the one-seat threshold. In fact, it increases proportionality on an ad hoc basis. It increases proportionality only when parties win one seat or more and when those parties gain enough party votes to bring additional list MPs into Parliament. There are better ways of increasing proportionality, and that includes reducing the party vote threshold from 5 percent to 4 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EMoreover, and most important in the public\u2019s mind, is the fact that the one-seat threshold, which serves no real purpose, has become something that has been abused by political parties. What has occurred is political parties have made deals with parties that may support them in Parliament, by essentially giving up a seat and encouraging voters to vote for the other political party, knowing that that political party will not reach the party vote threshold but has an opportunity to bring MPs into Parliament through the one-seat threshold. That is a situation that New Zealanders have resoundingly told us they are sick of. It does not matter which parties do it\u2014it does not matter which parties do it\u2014it is simply something that New Zealanders have loudly and clearly told us they are sick of, and they want us as MPs to address this issue, whether or not we in our political parties stand to gain from it personally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe other thing that this bill does is it reduces the party vote threshold from 5 percent to 4 percent. That is an acknowledgement of the fact that getting rid of the one-seat threshold does have an impact, in certain circumstances, on proportionality. In fact, reducing the party vote threshold ensures that proportionality is increased at every election, and that there is a clear rule that everybody has to meet. Every party, if it reaches the 4 percent threshold, has the right to bring list MPs into Parliament. That is clear, and it affects everybody, and it is the case at every election. It is not an ad hoc way of increasing proportionality\u2014list MPs will be brought in only in the event that parties win one seat and only in the event that those parties gain enough party votes to bring additional MPs into the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI want to address some of the concerns that have been raised regarding this legislation. First is that there is apparently no consensus. Well, in fact, there has been no opportunity for political parties to reach consensus. We were given an opportunity to provide our opening position, the position from which we would be prepared to negotiate with other parties. But what we were not given was the opportunity to carry out that negotiation\u2014the opportunity to reach consensus. Sending this bill to a select committee is, in fact, that opportunity to reach that consensus. Secondly, the issue was raised that not all the recommendations of the MMP review were contained in this bill. I actually appreciate that concern that has been raised, and, as I began my contribution, it is my intention, in the event that this bill passes first reading and is sent to the select committee, to move an instruction to the select committee to consider all recommendations of the MMP review. That then gives us the opportunity to consider the recommendations as a package and reach consensus around them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EHowever, on the issue of consensus, I would say there is a very clear consensus, and that is the consensus amongst the New Zealand public, the voters who put us here, the people who have clearly said they want us to address this issue. In a UMR poll, 71 percent of those polled were in favour of abolishing the one-seat threshold. Just 13 percent were against, and 16 percent were unsure. It is clear in the minds of New Zealanders that the one-seat threshold\u2014coat-tailing, as it has come to be known\u2014is unacceptable and the public no longer tolerates it. They want us as parliamentarians to address this issue. So those who vote against this system will be seen in the public as putting their own interests and their own party\u2019s interests ahead of making an amendment to our electoral system that makes it stronger, more robust, and more closely aligned with the way New Zealanders want our electoral system to work. So I do ask members of Parliament to put a strong and robust electoral system ahead of our own interests. Send this bill to a select committee, let us consider all the recommendations of the MMP review, and let us craft an electoral system that New Zealanders can have faith in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022220efd24e9c3403ea842754df593f4de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022220efd24e9c3403ea842754df593f4de\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I want to, firstly, congratulate Iain Lees-Galloway on bringing this bill to the House. It is always\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226827300509ce4f73a5b5aa83a3600113\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t do that. He doesn\u2019t deserve any congratulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f50c04995ff142b795c8d67ae6a39937\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Of course he does. Every member deserves congratulations on bringing a member\u2019s bill to the House. It is a great privilege for a member of Parliament to have the ability to bring a member\u2019s bill to the House, and with that privilege comes a high degree of responsibility. And therein lies one of the issues I have with this member\u2019s bill. It is to do with the fact that it is completely out of date, and that concerns me. For a member who comes to the House and wishes to implement quite sweeping changes to the Electoral Act across a number of fronts, he brings a faulty bill to the New Zealand Parliament. I find it extraordinary that a member would do that, and it rather undermines any argument that that member might advance towards his bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo if we go back in history a little in respect of the Electoral (Adjustment of Thresholds) Amendment Bill\u2014the member himself wished to go back in history, so let us do our own little bit of history\u2014we recall that this is a bill that was first brought to the House by the Hon Maryan Street\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022070a340bcd8e47809a0b6ee7b61ed08a\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: No, Lianne Dalziel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e0478e32f4e4a66900fd1377d5f09bc\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: I beg your pardon. It was Lianne Dalziel back in 2012; that is right. So back in 2012 the bill sat in the ballot, as do a number of bills, and it was not drawn by the time of the 2014 election\u2014oh, well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5472723209b4c0eb54786f23d6a29c6\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222224333165cb49d599a23012f06f9bdd\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it was not drawn by the time the Hon Lianne Dalziel left the House. I am thanking the member for helping me with the history, because here we get to the nub of the argument. This is the member\u2019s history, of course, which is why I am seeking his help with it, and I am grateful for it. But if the member cares so much about the history around this bill, then maybe he might have thought to update the objectives of the bill, which I would have thought were pretty pertinent to the debate at hand. So I would invite that member to approach the Table and pick up a copy of what is now his bill. He did pick it up on behalf of the Hon Lianne Dalziel, who left Parliament, and promoted it as his own bill, and he has argued very passionately in this House this afternoon towards the objectives of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, the objectives are out of date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201ef005345394827a3b930bc364c542e\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Hope to get to the substance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd0d5010a1924ceda1eedaa3eced274c\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you see, now the member is trying to defend himself by saying that this is not the substance of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226f1948d0c8146adbca8e4d83aaf931e\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: But you haven\u2019t actually told me what I\u2019ve done wrong yet, Jacqui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221fd9ab5e0934b67bc0bb6c545ec1cac\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, let me help the member, and I will read from page 1 of the bill, \u201CObjectives\u201D. These are Iain Lees-Galloway\u2019s words: \u201CThis Bill proposes to implement the main recommendations of the Electoral Commission review of MMP in time for the 2014 election.\u201D This bill is out of date\u2014this bill is out of date. This member did not take the opportunity to update the wording in his own bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1f98b67a4ac452f8babdb1bd98d47c2\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Own goal\u2014beautiful own goal, Jacqui. Well done. Is this the best you can do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b50fed52aaa746b49cd56840935c6c1a\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222422c1c48144ee0985e3f4f64457e7f\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233908bec5b684c4dbe1f4915d3774a44\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The first point\u2014[Interruption] No, the first point of order was from Jacqui Dean. I will hear Jacqui Dean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0bcd39e521f4229be243deeea027b19\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. Rare and reasonable interjections are fine, but I think a barrage of shouting is a little unreasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261399ccdf78a44a6983c59ade83db6df\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am the judge of that. I hear what the honourable member is saying. I did indicate to the member who was interjecting, Iain Lees-Galloway, that it was unacceptable, and I know he will not do it again, because I am not in the frame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022527e0dda47f6410ebf8504b9ca6d583c\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank so much, Mr Assistant Speaker. I do find it distressing that even now the member has not caught on, if you like, to the fact that he did not take the opportunity, when he assumed ownership of this bill, to update the bill, and felt that it was acceptable to bring a bill to the House in this state. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI will just turn, perhaps, to page 2. Right at the very bottom\u2014the member may care to do that; he clearly has not looked at this bill since he assumed it. Maybe he might have taken the time before bringing the bill to the House to have a look at the final sentence on page 2: \u201CThat is why, in order to keep faith with the integrity of the referendum, these changes must be implemented in time for the 2014 general election.\u201D Is this lazy work on behalf of this member? It is, indeed, very lazy work on behalf of this member, who could not even read the bill\u2014his own bill. It is pretty symptomatic of that party, I would contend. He is too lazy to read his own bill before he resubmitted it in the ballot, and now we have an objective in the bill that is out of date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EHowever\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220335e388163b4cbf9dcbdd8c9e74e721\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re a star!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293b9ed7bf25740fabc69303c70cd32a0\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: I think he has been hurt a bit, because he is getting a bit personal. I think that may have cut a little bit deep. However\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb0636db6b05416c8e492493d7411e57\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: No, I feel bad for you, Jacqui, because you are making such a fool of yourself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022786fe05722f847bfbd733b20fd4743be\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Similar to my first point of order, rare and reasonable interjections are fine, I know, but a barrage of noise\u2014perhaps not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222d9be9689524dcfa08f8beb6a0bc561\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I hear what the member is saying, and I will just ask that from now on we actually concentrate on the substance\u2014[Interruption] I am on my feet; well, I am standing\u2014of what is in a first reading, and that there be some material now related, with 4 minutes to go, to what is actually in the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d5758478610401b9411a0c88e9de2fa\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. So it is no surprise, I would imagine, that National does not support this bill. National opposes this bill. It is shoddy, it is lazy, and it takes no account of the proper processes that underpin the electoral process in New Zealand. New Zealand is so fortunate that our electoral system has a very high level of integrity. I would have thought that any member bringing a bill to this House around the electoral system would have presented a bill that at least was not so laughably out of date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EPrior to the last election new electoral laws were passed\u2014which is why it is so embarrassing that this member has brought this bill to the House now\u2014to provide better services to voters, candidates and political parties. A number of changes were made to enable people to enrol and update their details fully online, which is very beneficial, particularly for people residing overseas. The law was changed to make loans to parties subject to disclosure rules for greater transparency in our electoral law, and to allow parties to lodge bulk candidate nomination and party list documents by email. Good process underlined and underpinned those changes. Good process is integral to good electoral law, not, I would imagine, out-of-date, lazy members\u2019 bills. It is important to continuously improve our law and processes in light of changing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298c2f9722866466eb521f763cef0127d\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: It was drawn on 14 November 2013. Didn\u2019t you bother to read that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d41366b1cc2848bab2dec31c1d098856\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am attempting to make a contribution to this debate, but there is a barrage of noise coming across.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220718a02e76d345ffbbdad76266eeb3a2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, look, this is a debating chamber\u2014[Interruption] I do not want any comments when I am ruling. This is a debating chamber. I am the judge of whether I feel that the barracking is unacceptable, and in that case I did not accept that it was. So with 2 minutes remaining I will ask the member to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022724afdde6be34da3890aa424bebceaf5\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I invite the member, who is obviously so passionate about this issue that he presented a bill to the House that is horrendously out of date, to make a submission to the inquiry into the 2014 general election. Although the member may feel that a way to influence electoral law is to do it by way of a member\u2019s bill, I believe that a more substantive and responsible way is to, in fact, make a submission to the inquiry into the general election. In fact, I invite the member to do that. In fact, I will go further than that. I challenge the member to do that, because he raises some substantive issues that, of course, have been raised in the review already. We have kept, in the Justice and Electoral Committee, the terms of reference deliberately wide and open so that all views can be heard. Instead of cherry-picking a few recommendations or a couple of issues that were originally from a previous member of this House\u2014nothing wrong with that\u2014it would be better, in my view, when we are looking at electoral law, to look at it as a whole. That is a process with far more integrity than just looking at one narrow part of electoral law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo, in closing, National will not be supporting this out-of-date, narrowly focused bill that has been picked up by Iain Lees-Galloway, but I invite\u2014and, indeed, challenge\u2014him to make a submission in the proper place, which is to the Justice and Electoral Committee\u2019s review of the 2014 general election. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00227ccb3aca87894a2d98d1e8115ea07c7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ccb3aca87894a2d98d1e8115ea07c7d\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have to start my contribution in this House, first, by thanking the member Iain Lees-Galloway for bringing a bill that generally has a consensus view in the public that this is something that this Parliament should do. So that is my first point: my thanks to him for bringing to Parliament something that the Government should have actually brought here but did not, so we are being forced to have this debate via a member\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESecond, though, to begin my contribution, I want to rebut what Jacqui Dean, the chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee, had to say. I have great respect for the chair; I think she is an excellent chair, and I enjoy being a member of her committee. What she failed to acknowledge in her contribution\u2014which seemed to focus solely on, first, the date of the implementation of this bill and, second, whether or not it is the most appropriate mechanism; she failed to make any other substantive statement on the content of the bill itself\u2014is that the bill was drawn on 14 November 2013. It was perfectly reasonable for the bill to make reference to its coming into force in 2014, because of when it was drafted. Of course, all members of the House know that commencement dates change frequently because bills are frequently delayed. So the only point that the chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee just made was, actually, to remind this House of how members\u2019 bills can drag. Members\u2019 bills can drag, particularly when there are elections in between, so I think it is unfair of that speaker to have called this member, Iain Lees-Galloway, lazy. It is absolutely outrageous when there is a very reasonable explanation for why we have the date that we have on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe second substantive point that she made in her contribution was the notion that there are better ways to bring up an issue like reform of our electoral system. We probably would not disagree with that. We believe\u2014we would have probably preferred this\u2014that the Government should, ideally, have taken the review recommendations of the Electoral Commission, its full report on MMP and the voting system, and should simply have packaged them together as a bill for this Parliament to debate; that the Government should have put to the floor the issues that were raised by that review and let us decide. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d30a3329ae3345ef9938f300af13960f\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: By consensus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a019a53425f84e7ca0813d72a567c27e\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That would have been a reasonable way for us to have that discussion. The Government did not do that. So what are we left with, except the option of using mechanisms like members\u2019 bills? I believe absolutely that Iain Lees-Galloway has done the right thing by bringing this bill to the House in this form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe member across the way starts raising the issue of building consensus around this issue. We have to acknowledge that in the past there has not been consensus on some significant electoral reforms. There were divergent views on issues like whether we should have MMP as an electoral system. The problem is that when you have got political parties debating issues like this, self-interest is going to come into it. With all due respect, do we really believe that ACT is going to want to get rid of a provision that allows it to have greater representation in Parliament? Really? Although I respect the member\u2019s ability to step away from issues and take a non-personal approach and, rather, to take a considered view, it is probably a bit of a stretch to ask him to go that far. I would welcome a counterview from the member, but, obviously, smaller parties that have relied on the threshold before and the life raft position within this bill are probably not going to want to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a9806cc185547e18d4a0a7784b3b3e6\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Labour is doing what is in its best interest too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227943e0fee532403f8aba513b108d0875\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Jami-Lee Ross says that Labour has some self-interest in this bill. I welcome him to stand up and go through all of that self-interest. Ultimately, we just want good electoral reform, to the point that Iain Lees-Galloway has written to every member of this House and has said that for all of the other issues that were in the MMP report by the Electoral Commission, let us debate every single one of them at select committee. Let us put them on the table. Let us have a discussion. If you think that we are simply just cherry-picking, if the members think that, then be willing to send this bill to select committee to discuss every single recommendation and to bring it back to this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIf there is a view that there is not consensus in Parliament, I can tell you that the one place where there is consensus on this issue is among the general public. In a survey in December 2013, 71 percent of people wanted an end to coat-tailing. In a Stuff poll in 2014, 81 percent of people wanted an end to coat-tailing. The people have formed consensus around this issue, and yet, unfortunately, we still have a view among some MPs that this is not something that we should proceed with. We should. It would improve our electoral system. I hope that the bill is sent to select committee so that we can have a decent debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u002284afd239ef3e42abaad2b893611f5cc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284afd239ef3e42abaad2b893611f5cc6\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to be able to rise and take a call on this bill. If there was ever a bill that was an answer looking for a problem it seems to me that this is it. Actually, I am surprised that the member who has brought this forward, given his Midas touch history with members\u2019 bills, actually has wasted the opportunity on such a bill. But there you go. I guess we have got to put anything forward that we think may get somewhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EThere are three main parts of this legislation and I want to address each of them in turn. The first one is the reduction of the threshold from 5 percent down to 4 percent. I have got to say that neither in reading the background nor the introduction to the bill, nor in any of the arguments that I have seen put forward today, have I heard any plausible rationale for that. You could argue that 5 percent is, in fact, just a random number to some degree and that there is not necessarily particular meaning attached to 5 percent; but neither is there any meaning to 4 percent. So if we are going to change it from 5 percent to 4 percent, then why are we not changing it to 3 percent? Or perhaps the Conservatives might like 3.6 percent after last time? It has equal meaning to say 3.6 percent, 2 percent, 4 percent, 5 percent\u2014to me there is nothing specific that really says that we need to pick just another random number. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EIn fact, when we look at the other countries around the world that use a proportional system there is a wide range of numbers that are used. Actually, the most common number used is 5 percent, but they vary anything from 10 percent in Turkey down to 0.67 percent in the Netherlands. From my perspective until I hear a specific rationale that says 4 percent is somehow more of a magic number than 5 percent and is one that is convincing to me\u2014and, yes, I have seen some arguments; what I am saying is that I am not convinced by them\u2014that is an important part of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EArguably, Germany has got a very system operating. A lot of people talk about the success of the German MMP system, and it uses 5 percent. Yes, its threshold is three seats to our one seat in terms of the seat threshold perspective, but what you have got to remember, of course, is that Germany has 631 seats in its Parliament. So proportionately the three-seat threshold in Germany is far lower than the one-seat threshold in the system we use in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to abolishing the one-seat threshold\u2014coat-tailing, as others have described it\u2014initially I did have some sympathy for this. You know, when you look at the 2008 example that has been used, at face value to some people it does seem unfair and at face value it could seem unfair. However, I think that unless you are going to do away with thresholds altogether in terms of percentages, actually they are really important. If a person from a party by winning their seat finds themselves in Parliament it seems absolutely ludicrous to me that other people from their party, if they have achieved some level of proportionality above the one seat allocation, should not be there. There is no justice in excluding them if the party is in Parliament. So I think there is no reason that I can see to do away with that if it is about fairness, because whichever way you cut the cake there is always going to be some argument against fairness. There is no perfect system; we have just got to get the best system we can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EIn fact, I have heard it argued plenty of times over the years when we have had parties represented in Parliament that have not even actually managed to win any seats. It seems a little bit weird to me that sometimes we have parties represented\u2014yes, they might have got 5 percent or 6 percent of the vote\u2014but none of the people in their party were able to win an electorate seat. Some people have said that perhaps we need to have at least one seat plus whatever percentage you get. There are all sorts of permutations that we could come up with, but I do not think that discussing this bill any further is going to take us any further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EFinally, it says in this bill that we should review it every 3 years\u2014to put that in legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255daff42fcc7492f9692f09125440001\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: No, after 3 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ca69a51122a4daa95d55e1bd379bfa2\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: Every three elections\u2014sorry, my correction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b11e8df00d443eb99fcffc83e9ecd36\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: After three elections. Not every three elections; after three elections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3bd19d2c13741cdaef1f54401d41b74\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR\u003C/span\u003E: After three elections there should be a review. Well, I am quite confident that any Parliament will take a review if and when it is required. At the moment I do not see the need for us to change anything and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002279eddba123e64d13a01ac2fb6fdce4db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279eddba123e64d13a01ac2fb6fdce4db\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00228566f0dfb2b64576aeab94ad71790c15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228566f0dfb2b64576aeab94ad71790c15\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and take a call on the Electoral (Adjustment of Thresholds) Amendment Bill. This bill aims to do a number of things that came up during the MMP review conducted by the Electoral Commission in 2012. The Green Party at the time really supported the review and noted that it was a Government review that was brought about because of its own coalition agreement. Although the Green Party has an electoral reform plan and a set of policies that are different in some part from the recommendations that the Electoral Commission came up with, we said that we would support the changes that were recommended by the Electoral Commission because they were changes recommended by the Electoral Commission. It had done a great deal of work. It had taken submissions, and I personally submitted on that. It took a great deal of time and thorough consideration to arrive at the conclusions that it did. The proposals that it made, whether or not we actually disagreed with them, were ones that were well-considered by the Electoral Commission and then were completely shelved by this Government because they were inconvenient to this Government\u2019s short-term interests. That was unfortunate. It was unfortunate that we wasted the resources and the time of the Electoral Commission. It was unfortunate that we spent the money on that review, and then did precisely nothing with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESo for those reasons we support Iain Lees-Galloway\u2019s bill because it does advance at least some of the recommendations that were outlined in the Electoral Commission\u2019s review. The three main recommendations were to remove the one electoral seat threshold, to lower the party vote threshold to 4 percent, and to review the party vote threshold after three general elections. I just want to respond to some of the points raised by the previous speaker, Jono Naylor, where he was kicking around a number of other options. I am sure the Electoral Commission did consider them as it was moving through its deliberations. Given that the Electoral Commission deliberated on those and then chose the recommendations that it did, I do not think it is helpful now to kick around a whole bunch of other things that have already been considered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe do support this bill. The most important part here, and the reason why we supported this one at the time, is that public opinion and faith in the MMP system is degraded by the presence of the one-seat rule. We recognise that that is not convenient necessarily to all of the parties in this House, but there is a greater need here, I think, which is the requirement for integrity in the system, in the sense of public faith that the system is a good one and at least has the perception of fairness, although I note, as Mr Naylor said, that that could be a relative thing. It is pretty apparent that a significant portion of New Zealand voters consider that the one-seat threshold is a rort. The media keep using the same thing when talking about, for example, Epsom and \u014Ch\u0101riu. They refer to those two cases as kind of examples of how political parties undermine the overall system and use it to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de8cbaf137504c918468584256d1023e\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: A bit like Coromandel in 1999.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbe73b3d72784ae6b0a6202e21e78f61\u0022\u003EJAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I am just reporting what people say, Chris\u2014undermine and get around the electoral system. We know that this bill is not going to be supported by the Government, for the same reason that the Electoral Commission\u2019s report and recommendations were also not supported by the Government. But if they were, then that would restore some level of faith or increased faith in MMP. It would be great if this issue did not have to come up via a member\u2019s bill. It would have been better if the Justice and Electoral Committee took another look at those recommendations, because any time you change the electoral system it is going to have winners and losers in terms of the MPs and parties that are in Parliament. One option would be to grandfather this bill out so that it takes effect in two or three elections\u2019 time, so that current MPs and parties\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022738df8106c3a47469298f646f64d7817\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry but the honourable member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002247250af27c5f4eb398078edcd1c1a85d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247250af27c5f4eb398078edcd1c1a85d\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E Look, it is probably my fault, you know. I was the Minister of Justice who really could possibly have spent the next 2 years trying to get consensus amongst seven different parties in Parliament. If only I had done that, we could today have Colin Craig as an MP. If only I had done that. I mean, for goodness\u2019 sake! Let us have a look at the results. We have talked a lot today about this. [Interruption] That would have been good\u2014and by the way, all the rest of them. The Conservatives had 3.97 percent out of the 2014 election. Do you really think that if we had gone to that election with a 4 percent threshold, the party could not have got another 0.03 percent? It would have been a doozy, and we would have had that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWho actually benefited out of this so-called coat-tail, one-seat threshold in this particular election, the last one? The only one, actually, is the M\u0101ori Party. We would have had one member. I do not know how the Greens would feel about that. Did they really not want Miss Marama Fox in here? Let us go back to the 2011 election result. I know that these are facts, and they do not like that in the Labour Party. But let us have a look at it. What have we got? The Mana party were in here. It was not supporting the Government, was it? It was 1.08 percent of the vote, and apparently that is no good either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ELet us just go back a little bit more, to 2008. Oh, we had Mr Jim Anderton\u2019s Progressive party. I have heard Mr James Shaw, who has never won an electorate seat and never will, talking today about\u2014[Interruption] No, he has not. He was talking about Epsom and \u014Ch\u0101riu. Apparently the people do not like it. Which people do not like it? Clearly the people in Epsom and \u014Ch\u0101riu do not mind, because guess what? The people in Wigram were asked by the Labour Party to vote for Mr Jim Anderton\u2019s Progressive party, and guess how much he got\u20140.91 percent. It was not even 1 percent. He was just a minnow compared to that fabulous Conservative Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ELet us go back to 2005\u2014an election that Labour claimed. What did we have here? Who was coat-tailing then? Well, the ACT Party. It coat-tailed. It got 1.51 percent. It got Epsom, and it also got one more MP. But actually Mr Peter Dunne\u2019s United Future New Zealand Party, which at that stage supported the Labour Government, got 2.67 percent and he got one seat. But in the end he got three seats, after his electorate seat. I did not hear the Labour Party members all crying about that one. No, actually they were very happy to take Mr Peter Dunne\u2019s party, and also Mr Jim Anderton\u2019s Progressive party. That was an election where we had eight parties represented here in Government, and four of those parties had fewer votes in terms of the percentage than the Conservative Party at the last election. So maybe we should drop the threshold a bit more, down to 2 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ELet us go back to 2002. Guess who was coat-tailing again. Jim Anderton\u2019s Progressive Coalition party. Guess how many seats it won in the electorate seats\u2014one. Guess how much of a percentage of the vote it won. Hmm\u20141.70 percent. And guess how many seats in Parliament it got.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b715fa4056541b68ea7da66f921783a\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215f5d9d129704ae29fee5164c99c87b1\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Two. You are so right, Mr Macindoe: two. [Interruption] Mr Seymour, you got that, and Mrs Tolley. My goodness gracious. And guess who was crying about that then. The Labour Party? Mr Iain Lees-Galloway? Any distraught people from the left? No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe fact is if you can win an electorate seat in Parliament, that means there are enough people there, 60,000-odd voters, who think there is a little bit of sanity in that party. It actually brings in a bit of sanity, and it actually means that a party has to go back to the electorate and say \u201CWell, this is what we\u2019ve been doing.\u201D, and it actually stops people being complete fruit loops when it comes to politics. But when you have got parties that have no respect for electorates, no respect for the work that goes on representing people, whether they vote for you or not\u2014people like Mr Shaw, who is a nice chap, but really he showed his colours today. He says that he submitted to the Electoral Commission, so therefore he represents the people. Let me tell you this: most people did not submit. There is a reason. The only people generally who submitted were absolutely into politics and had an agenda, and unfortunately I just could not get consensus. But is it not a good thing I did not, otherwise we would have Colin Craig here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc8c31ae6dd042bd893c2ce05013bb24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc8c31ae6dd042bd893c2ce05013bb24\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am going to ask for your forbearance. It has come to my attention\u2014and I need to start by saying this is the first opportunity that I have had to come and raise this point of order in the House. It is regarding a matter that I think you should take very seriously. It has been reported back through my office, to me, that in this debate, at a time when the honourable Jacqui Dean was speaking, a member on the Government benches made a very unparliamentary comment about you, Mr Assistant Speaker. At this point in time Chris Bishop has not stood to withdraw and apologise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022be68eb47ed194c16b5b248322a5ed869\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be68eb47ed194c16b5b248322a5ed869\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! A point of order was raised at that time. I indicated to the person who made that comment that it was unacceptable. Although I did not take it further than that, the point was made and I ruled at that time, and that was the end of the matter. So there is no further discussion on it. I acted on it at the time. I am calling the next speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022668de09641d34555bbe085e6b807567c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022668de09641d34555bbe085e6b807567c\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229040537833e4a22a5dad8c287840c1a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I hope you are not going to be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a822bc7b07246ff989267c426baf198\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Just to be sure, are we talking about the same incident? This was not clearly audible to you. You gave no sign. My reports from the people who had been listening and watching were that you did not act on this particular occurrence from Chris Bishop because you did not hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00222c0b8d12b4504c67bb22ca6675d5f431\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c0b8d12b4504c67bb22ca6675d5f431\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if a member in the House had heard something at the time, they would have brought it to my attention. There was nothing brought to my attention at the time. You cannot, at a later stage, come in and say something happened. It has to be dealt with at the time. I did deal with an issue that came up. A point of order did come up from Chris Bishop, and I dealt with that at the time, just as I did with Jacqui Dean at the time. [Interruption] Order! I am trying to rule here. At any point if some indiscretion has happened, it must be dealt with at the time, not at a later stage. So as far as I am concerned that matter is over and we are now moving on with the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6327860539445129834e881c23fae49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6327860539445129834e881c23fae49\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a separate point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022398f34f190784773bd182363bcb9b89e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I hope you are not going to relitigate what I have just ruled on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209ece505822a4ca7b017a358dcac7f6f\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I am not going to relitigate that incident, but I am going to make a request of you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234e6c7d677d44e5fb03556ee34d309c0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: What is the point you are making?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b08590b572c4299918fd87187a4ff52\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: The question is if an incident such as the one just described occurs and a person is unable to get to the House for some time, is that not considered to be the earliest possible moment? Could you please deliberate on that and give us a ruling, because this means that if no one else heard it but one person, and that person was on the motorway driving, and it might take half an hour or an hour for that person to get to the House\u2014if you are saying that because it was not raised at that very\u2014[Interruption] Points of order should be heard in silence, Anne Tolley\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00221517a0c442d146afaa9c413c01f2c0e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221517a0c442d146afaa9c413c01f2c0e5\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member will sit\u2014[Interruption] Order! The member will sit. [Interruption] The member will sit. I have ruled on this matter, and, as the Clerk has just informed me, if there are matters where someone feels aggrieved or an indiscretion has happened, they have to be brought up at the time by someone who was present. You cannot come back at a later stage and then indicate that you feel aggrieved because one heard something by way of audio or by way of television. I have ruled on this matter, and that is the end of the story. We are now moving on to the next speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1d02d66358344599f9bd50265901bc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1d02d66358344599f9bd50265901bc3\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3dd1e78793b4321bf46cda2ea430655\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I have ruled on this matter, Mr Peters, and I hope that this is a new matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229b1a83d877640538382dcc1a6243ab3\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It is a new matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db3bc541dad64e71aa1d99a1b9ba6278\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Then I will hear the new matter\u2014the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d15df24cbf74c63b2abf8c266ece0df\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It is your very reputation we are seeking to defend, Mr Assistant Speaker. Do you recall that there is a precedent that is opposite to the one that the Clerk has just given you? It was when my colleague made a sign in this House, which was later picked up by a camera and then, long after the event, long after the time frame that we have got here, it was raised in this House as being improper behaviour. Mr Assistant Speaker, I have heard the Clerk\u2019s ruling, but there is a precedent outside of that ruling and my colleague, unfortunately, is the centre of that precedent. That is why I am asking you\u2014is the Clerk sure of his facts here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00225cf31079e34e4054b2ab8d038476bfb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cf31079e34e4054b2ab8d038476bfb4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. I will ask Chris Bishop when he made a comment that someone might have taken offence, that is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229edb1a3606334cf3aef254564de8a0de\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217d608f6688140f9ab081848cde01ca8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am just asking first whether Chris Bishop said something that I was unaware of, and it was directed at me, I understand. If he did\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227de4c7487984446db54bcaae377e33b7\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Assistant Speaker, I think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed4c3e6be1b34eb397aa845de68a42b1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, just answer my question. Did you or did you not make a comment that reflected on the Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00228c6b15474dc94206b6746b2e3388eea4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c6b15474dc94206b6746b2e3388eea4\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E I was reflecting back what Mr Lees-Galloway was saying to my colleague Jacqui Dean, and pointing out that the reference to you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002207bcb20b4e2b45b397b80d73f35b5e58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207bcb20b4e2b45b397b80d73f35b5e58\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. Well, that is exactly\u2014[Interruption] Order! Thank you. And that is\u2014[Interruption] The member will sit, thank you. That is exactly\u2014[Interruption] Order! Order now! I heard the comments made by Mr Iain Lees-Galloway on two occasions. At the time, I indicated to Mr Lees-Galloway that that was unacceptable. He acknowledged that. At the time of the two points of order, first, by Jacqui Dean about barracking, I dealt with that matter. Chris Bishop then indicated his point of order, which was in reference to what Mr Lees-Galloway had said, and I ruled on that matter at the time\u2014end of story. Now we are moving to the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002216bf94eb31e9449a982b1ea66597260b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216bf94eb31e9449a982b1ea66597260b\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just think it is important, as we discuss this\u2014and I am not trying to relitigate, but, in fact, the matter that the Rt Hon Winston Peters raised was absolutely incorrect. And I would hate that to stand on record, because, in fact, Ron Mark denied that he had made that unparliamentary comment and was caught out simply because someone was signing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1d5209a399e4b499a45009f6057b0d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1d5209a399e4b499a45009f6057b0d9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Look, this has got nothing to do with this. The member will sit. We are not delving into it. I am going to call Denis O\u2019Rourke as the next speaker. Denis O\u2019Rourke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b28428b43b040a4bdeda5b1f2a94468\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00222d28397b15044f5c9f19f408c1a0e0e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d28397b15044f5c9f19f408c1a0e0e3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have dealt with this matter, Mr Peters. [Interruption] I have dealt with it, and I do not want to hear any more. Will the member\u2014[Interruption] We are moving on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd1eda46c9f84245933ebfedbbd32176\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd1eda46c9f84245933ebfedbbd32176\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave, therefore, to table not the comment that was offensive, as the member just said, but the photograph that was the offence. I seek leave to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022653e1bac487f44deb4bad1a7663486f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022653e1bac487f44deb4bad1a7663486f9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection. I am calling the next speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u002234d1c9dd2c3e466e8b30aaceba2fdeb1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234d1c9dd2c3e466e8b30aaceba2fdeb1\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First will support this bill only to the select committee at this stage. And I might say that the reason, mainly, for that is that that is what the public of New Zealand expects. It expects that we will have a robust debate and discussion about these very important issues, and that they will not simply be brushed aside, as the National Government wishes to do. The last speaker, Mrs Collins, only gave us a list of what this party did, what that party did not do, and what the results of various elections were, and that is hardly the basis on which these sorts of serious issues should be decided. So it shows that this Government is taking a cavalier attitude to these matters, and that is not what the public wants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe public wants a good and proper and robust discussion. The only way that can happen is at the select committee and through that process. In that process New Zealand First will support the abolition of the coat-tailing provision\u2014the one-seat threshold, as some call it\u2014but we will not agree to the lowering of the threshold from 5 percent to 4 percent. So we agree with one part of the bill, but not with the other. We wish to have the opportunity to discuss all of that through the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe big issue for electoral reform in New Zealand is that coat-tailing provision. That is what the public thinks, and that is what New Zealand First thinks as well. For those who do not understand it who may be watching this debate: well, you are not alone in not understanding it, because it is a completely illogical provision. There is no reason for it. The 5 percent threshold is for parties that get list seats, and that should not be compromised by a one-seat threshold, either. There should just be the one threshold, and that should be it. That is what the electoral committee says, that is what the public expects, and that is what this process should result in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EWhy are we in the position of even having to debate this? It is because parties, both parties now and other parties in the past, have both seen the opportunity to use that coat-tailing provision for their own political purposes\u2014not because it is proper, not because it is democratic, and not because it is in the national interest. No independent or professional advice has ever supported the coat-tailing provision. To the contrary: every formal recommendation that has been made so far\u2014and that includes the Electoral Commission itself\u2014says that that provision should go, because it is unfair, because it is undemocratic, and because in an MMP system it is actually illogical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe results have been many and various. In 2008 New Zealand First had more list votes than other parties that won an electoral seat and got more than one seat in Parliament, and yet on that occasion New Zealand First got a little less than 5 percent and got no seats in Parliament. That is not fair, that is not logical, and that does not fit well with what is supposed to be a proportional system under MMP. The MMP system is grossly compromised by the coat-tailing provision, and it is time that it went. Other parties have allowed obvious, cynical, and blatant gerrymanders of the system. An example of that is the ACT Party, which was gifted a seat in this Parliament. Why was it gifted a seat in this Parliament? The reason is that the National Government wanted to see the coat-tailing provision in operation, with the hope that not only would it get David Seymour into the House but it would get other seats as well that were not deserved, and that, exactly, is a good reason why the gerrymander has to stop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe threshold of 5 percent is necessary because it is a good balance between on the one hand a fair and democratic system of representation for small parties, but on the other hand nobody wanting to see a proliferation of very tiny parties with one or two seats in this Parliament. So that is what the threshold is there for, and 5 percent is the right level and no other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022223db0de5d494f8dbab72847eba42d17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022223db0de5d494f8dbab72847eba42d17\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E This bill, the sponsor of it would have you believe, is being advanced with noble intentions. It is seeking just to implement the recommendations of the Electoral Commission review. Labour is not trying to play party politics with this issue; it is all for the glory of the country and the benefit of our electoral system! It is not about the self-interest of the Labour Party or the Green Opposition; no, no, it is all about the beauty of the electoral system. That is what they would have you believe, except the truth is the exact opposite. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThere are four reasons why this bill should be voted down tonight. The first is that it has been advanced in bad faith by its sponsor. As I said before, Mr Lees-Galloway would have you believe that this is some sort of noble endeavour, except that\u2014and here is the rub; here is where his argument falls down\u2014the Labour Party\u2019s intention to lodge this bill and to get rid of the electorate seat threshold waiver was announced before the Electoral Commission review reported back. So before the recommendation was made to reduce the threshold down to 4 percent and get rid of the electorate seat waiver, the Labour Party had put on the record that it was going to get rid of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThat absolutely puts a lie to the claim that this is some noble sacrifice or noble act by Iain Lees-Galloway and the Labour Party members. They had announced it before the recommendations of the Electoral Commission. Why? Because this bill is all about politics. It is all about the fact that the Labour Party and the Green Party do not like the outcome of the 2008, 2011, and 2014 general elections. They do not like them because they lost. They do not like the fact that the good people of Epsom elected my colleague David Seymour, and they do not like the fact that my colleague Peter Dunne was elected by the good people of \u014Ch\u0101riu, so they are seeking to relitigate that through the petty political point-scoring of a member\u2019s bill that they know has no chance of success, and it is also hypocritical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe second reason is that it is hypocritical for Labour to advance this bill. Why? Because Labour itself has relied on coat-tail MPs in the past. When? Well, in 2002 when it relied on the vote of Jim Anderton, who took his good mate Matt Robson into Parliament with him after the election and who propped up the Labour Government of the time. So it was OK for the Labour Party back in 2002 to use Jim Anderton\u2019s seat of Wigram, and it carefully encouraged people who were actually Labour Party supporters to vote for Jim Anderton\u2019s Progressive Coalition, the vainglorious party named after him. It was OK for the Labour Party back then, but the moment Jim shuffles off his political mortal coil, the moment he is gone, no, no, it is not good enough for any other party to use that provision. That is absolutely hypocritical and absolutely grotesque. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe third reason why this bill should not advance is the reason that my colleague Judith Collins pointed to and that also Jacqui Dean pointed to, which is that there is not any consensus on this issue. It is very important. Reform of our electoral law should be based on consensus\u2014broad-based consensus. We know that the Labour Party has form, or lack of form, in this area, I should say, after its disgraceful attempt\u2014not even its attempt but its successful measures\u2014to ram through Parliament, before the 2008 general election, the disgraceful Electoral Finance Bill, which cracked down on free speech and really struck a hammer blow to the heart of our democracy, all because Labour did not like what some groups did in the 2005 general election. So, notwithstanding the concerns of the Human Rights Commission, the New Zealand Law Society, most of Parliament, and all the submitters to the select committee on that, the Labour Government rammed it through. So we know that it has form when it comes to consensus on electoral law issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe point is that when you do change electoral law it should be something that is almost above party politics. You are never going to completely get rid of party politics out of a situation where you get politicians talking about the electoral system, but it should be something that is a little bit independent, is looked at impartially, is looked at a little bit neutrally, and where things are done in good faith. That is certainly not what has been done by the Labour Party in the debate today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe fourth reason, to close my speech, is that there is a very good reason for the so-called coat-tail provisions. The very good reason in our electoral law for those provisions is that they actually increase the proportionality of Parliament. It was absurd to hear Denis O\u2019Rourke railing against them, saying that New Zealand First is going to vote for this bill. After the 1999 election New Zealand First did win an electorate seat when Winston Peters won Tauranga. It got 4.3 percent of the vote and it brought in four list MPs. So the New Zealand First Party has been a beneficiary of the provisions. If this bill had been in place, if this was the law, only one New Zealand First MP would have been elected. The coat-tail provisions increase proportionality. They make Parliament fairer. They make it more proportionate to the actual will of the voters. That is why this is a silly bill advanced in bad faith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022465dc086735d47e9b121775c42419ad8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022465dc086735d47e9b121775c42419ad8\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a document titled Representation vs Stability: The Five Per Cent Threshold in MMP, written by one Christopher Bishop, which advocates for removing the party vote threshold altogether.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4588692055c472ba60419990b2d53f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4588692055c472ba60419990b2d53f6\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I am sure anyone who wants to know Mr Bishop\u2019s views will probably be able to find that. [Interruption] No; the matter is finished. I have dealt with it. I am calling David Clendon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f133c9724ca148e695a3589763a847ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f133c9724ca148e695a3589763a847ad\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a brief call\u2014and it will be brief\u2014on this very good bill and to congratulate the member on bringing it to the House. The Greens like this bill. It is very much in line with our own party submission to the MMP review, where we argued for the elimination of the one-electorate seat threshold on the basis that it was creating disproportionate outcomes. We argued for a reduction in the percentage threshold, and we highlighted the fact that the original Royal Commission on the Electoral System pointed to 4 percent as being an appropriate level for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe have heard much from the Government side this afternoon about the self-interest of Labour and, by association, the Greens in bringing in this bill. I think it would be helpful for those members to actually read what the Electoral Commission had to say in 2012. I would think it would be a very brave or foolish person who would accuse the Electoral Commission of self-interest or political interest. It said that the party vote threshold is the mechanism for achieving the competing objectives of proportionality on one hand and stable and effective Governments on the other. One argument is to have everything wide open with no threshold at all, which means you would have lots of one-member parties in this House, and that would not be a stable environment. The commission went on to say: \u201CAt 5%,\u201D\u2014the percentage, that is\u2014\u201Cit is higher than it needs to be to strike the right balance. It could be lowered to 4% without any risk to effectiveness or stability and this is what we recommend be done.\u201D It goes on to say that \u201CThe one-electorate-seat threshold should go\u201D, because although it concedes \u201Cit does increase the proportionality of Parliament, it does so in an arbitrary and inconsistent way \u2026 Its effect has been to undermine the principles of fairness and equity \u2026\u201D. I would be interested to hear an argument that that is a politically loaded position or a self-interested position from the Electoral Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EHaving said all that, I have heard an argument\u2014and I am slightly influenced by it\u2014that we should not worry too much about the coat-tail rule because the evidence is, and it was reinforced by the member for Papakura, that parties that rely on the coat-tailing provision actually do not survive very long. They do not thrive. They may maintain a residual presence, as we see, with all due respect, in the member to my left, the ACT Party member\u2014the entire ACT Party caucus\u2014present in the House today. The reality is that, I think, the ACT Party\u2019s support peaked with a magnificent 3.6 percent in 2008. Under the coat-tailing provision, that brought in four list MPs behind the then leader, Mr Hide. I have to say that those MPs, in their own unique way\u2014I am looking for a word other than \u201Cvalue\u201D\u2014added a layer of interest to this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI think one of the most remarkable speeches I have ever heard in this House was in the context of another electoral bill, as it happens, the Electoral (Disqualification of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Act, which, to this day, should be looked back on with shame by the National Party, which supported it. One Hilary Calvert, the then ACT MP, made the most extraordinary 47-second speech that I think this Parliament has ever heard. So although there is a level of interest added to the House by the presence of these smaller parties, which are relying on coat-tailing, ultimately, I think we have to concede that they do not thrive in the long term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EHowever, the reality is that we need to get the best possible outcomes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220073227f44414599bffadc437c238438\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. The time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. This debate is interrupted, and I shall resume the Chair at 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb4fc062a57641118535c1ff5b2a8a4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb4fc062a57641118535c1ff5b2a8a4e\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I have been waiting for this bill for some time. Unwrapping the Order Paper has been much like a game of pass the parcel, hoping each time that Mr Lees-Galloway\u2019s bill would finally be up for debate. Tonight it is. The reason why I have relished debating this bill is that often in politics and public policy there is actually legitimate cause for debate and valid points on both sides, but in this case, the Opposition is so wrong on every count that it is a delightful case to prosecute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bda21e7dad3498182a1e53f2a772c67\u0022\u003ERichard Prosser\u003C/span\u003E: Spot the vested interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220119ad9463494ae89c38a5ac451f3712\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we will address that. Let me start with a little bit of history. We have an electoral system that has two tests for whether or not a member, or members, can enter Parliament. One is that they must win an electorate\u2014win the majority of voters within a geographical area. The other is that their party must win 5 percent of all the votes. The objective of this policy\u2014that is, to balance proportionality with stability of Government\u2014is something that this bill is seeking to change. They decided, back in Germany, post-World War II, when this particular system of electing representatives was designed, to have two tests: one was to win some geographical areas and the other was to win 5 percent of all votes. Why? Because they were concerned, as it happened, that ethnic Danes, who were concentrated in certain geographical areas but who had brethren represented around the rest of the country, might be fully represented by passing not just the one test but actually both. So what that achieved was that the proportionality of Parliament could be enhanced while also having a clear test for stability, and that nobody would be elected unless they could persuade the majority of a particular geographical area to vote for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EFast forward to 1986 when our own royal commission on the electoral legislation actually contemplated that M\u0101ori and Pacific Island peoples, who might be concentrated in a particular geographical area\u2014Carmel Sepuloni is really thinking right now\u2014would be able to elect members and also enhance the proportionality of Parliament through representation being proportional to their brethren, if you like, in the remainder of the country. Interestingly, as it comes to pass in this House today, the sole beneficiary of the coat-tailing rule that this bill is seeking to remove is actually one Marama Fox. I do not know what the Labour Party could possibly have against Marama Fox, because she is a fabulous member of this House. But let us be clear: the only net effect on the current House of changing this Act would be to remove Marama Fox from it. Why does the Labour Party hate Marama Fox? That is the question that I would like to be answered tonight. It is certainly not clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe heard earlier in this debate a superb contribution from one Judith Collins, and she recited the history that in 1996 it was, indeed, the Labour and Green parties who strategically elected Jeanette Fitzsimons to Coromandel in order to take advantage of the coat-tailing rule. My earnest friend here, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, had his political skin saved in 1999 by the people of Tauranga and New Zealand First via the coat-tailing rule. But let us be honest about the real motivation for this bill on the part of its proponents, and that is that if you take the entire history of MMP, for a period the coat-tailing rule benefited the left and then it benefited the right. There is no more to it than that. There is no more sincere motivation on the part of the proponents of this bill other than the fact that it has politically disadvantaged them recently. The Rt Hon Winston Peters knows that he has been kept away from the cross benches at least twice in the last three elections by this Act. For that reason, he is very angry about it too, and I understand\u2014I understand. Time is running out. None the less, I will be opposing this bill, because there is no sound principle\u2014only self-interest on the part of the proponents of this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022ead7c9c675734c97a435beca6628b397\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ead7c9c675734c97a435beca6628b397\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Well, this has been a fascinating debate in which there has been an astonishing amount of clutching at straws by the Government members, desperate to find any reason to vote against this legislation, the Electoral (Adjustment of Thresholds) Amendment Bill. We started with the astonishing, nearly 10-minute attack on me by Jacqui Dean because apparently I had got the date of commencement wrong in this legislation. The minor detail that Jacqui Dean overlooked was the fact that this bill was drawn from the ballot in November 2013. That was well in advance of the last election, and the Standing Orders say I cannot amend the bill after it has been drawn from the ballot, but that is not a big deal to Jacqui Dean. I wondered how a member could come up with such an illogical argument, and then I remembered that Jacqui Dean was the one who was taken in by the dihydrogen monoxide hoax. So Jacqui Dean has not learnt a thing from embarrassing herself in public in the past and demonstrating her ignorance. Once again, she has been able to demonstrate her ignorance this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI want to address some of the comments made by Chris Bishop and also by David Seymour. Chris Bishop and David Seymour both raised examples in the past of when other parties have, indeed, been able to bring people in by virtue of the one-seat threshold rule. They noted Jim Anderton and suggested that the Labour Party did a deal with Jim Anderton to help him win Wigram. Well, I have to say that a small thermonuclear weapon would not have got Jim Anderton out of Wigram\u2014likewise with the example of Jeanette Fitzsimons. Here is the key difference between what has happened in the past and what has happened with the ACT Party: yes, Labour has sometimes in the past said: \u201CLook, you have got a choice between the Greens and the National Party. We are out of this race, so you have got a choice. Either vote for the Greens or vote for the National Party. We\u2019re not particularly fond of the National Party. We suggest you get in behind the Greens.\u201D The key difference is that National should win Epsom every time, and the only reason David Seymour is here is because of the largesse of the National Party. That is the only reason why ACT is here. That is the key difference between what has happened in the past and what has happened now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EBut actually all of that is irrelevant. It is irrelevant whether lowering the threshold would allow one party or another party into Parliament. It is irrelevant whether people have made use of the rules as they stood in the past. What is relevant\u2014the only thing that is relevant here\u2014is that there was a review, and the review, an independent review not governed by any special interest of anybody in this House, came up with these recommendations in response to an overwhelming demand from the people of New Zealand for this Parliament to stop putting self-interest ahead of the way they want to have a fair system of electing our representatives. Yes, we are talking about a balance between proportionality and, I suppose, governability in the House. That is why the recommendation was made to get rid of the one-seat threshold and lower the party vote threshold to get the balance between proportionality and governability right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EBut, again, I want to address what David Seymour said. He said that this comes from the German model. The German model was worried about ethnic representation. I wonder how many ethnic Epsomians need to have their representation guaranteed in Parliament by having the ACT Party represent them. We do have a desperate shortage of straight, white men in this House! Thank goodness, that through the one-seat threshold, that ethnic representation of Epsom has been able to be represented by David Seymour and Rodney Hide in the past! Actually, that is the truth of that particular argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWhat we have heard from Government members is a line-up of spurious arguments, idiotic attacks on the Opposition, and clutching at straws simply to divert attention from the fact that they are voting against this legislation tonight because they have an interest in maintaining the one-seat threshold and maintaining the coat-tailing so that they can get an unfair advantage in Parliament. That is the only reason why, and they are not listening to New Zealanders. They are completely out of touch with what New Zealanders want. They have put their own self-interest against thousands of submissions, an independent review, and promises that were made by the National Party that they would make the changes that this bill seeks to implement. They are full of broken promises, they are full of silly arguments, and they will rue the day they voted against this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question that the Electoral (Adjustment of Thresholds) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00221cf07fd986944635a0effc8919000560\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cf07fd986944635a0effc8919000560\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to remind members of what happened to the last member who was caught interjecting during a vote, and I am sure the member who interjected then would like to stay for her leader\u2019s speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022510ea809be70491385fe0fc6bf0fca74\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Electoral (Adjustment of Thresholds) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002290a47720468c4ca2b6c82f385b4b9cbb\u0022\u003ESuperGold Health Check Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f26109f369e24477b860a25375c7e443\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6f9280b955f47de954d43904e4c5a5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6f9280b955f47de954d43904e4c5a5a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the SuperGold Health Check Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Health Committee to consider the bill. This, as you will realise, is a seriously non-controversial measure that should have the support of every sane and reasonable person in this House. We are proposing the SuperGold Health Check Bill as a common-sense, cost-saving policy and preventative measure. Giving three free GP visits with the SuperGold card every year makes more than economic sense. It will save lives and precious health dollars. Globally, according to Deloitte, life expectancy is expected to increase from an estimated 72.6 years in 2012 to 73.7 years by 2017, bringing the number of people over the age of 65 to around 560 million worldwide. That is more than the 10 percent of the total global population, and in Western Europe the proportion in 2017 will hit 20 percent. In Japan it will be 27 percent, and what it will be here, according to Statistics New Zealand, is 16 percent, but, of course, that is seriously dependent upon the wisdom, or lack of it, in terms of immigration policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EBearing in mind that Deloitte also warned that pressure to reduce healthcare costs remains and is escalating due to Government debt, and constraints on tax revenue and ageing populations, a policy that makes medical, social, and financial benefit makes common sense. Today the price for a hospital bed per day in New Zealand is about $1,243. That is a lot of money when the average price for a stay in hospital and the cost to the taxpayer is in the vicinity of $10,000. This policy will cost about $69 million per annum based on the number of SuperGold card holders we have now. But it will be cost-neutral only if 1 or 2 percent of the SuperGold card holders use the three free visits and are kept out of hospital. Simply put, keeping SuperGold card holders out of hospital will help to contain health spending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EGrey Power has welcomed the policy, applauding it in terms of the cost and suggesting it will be an incentive to get people to the doctor. Grey Power says there are many cases of elderly people putting off going to the doctor or declining to pick up prescriptions because of the cost. Just recently in the Sunday Star-Times it was reported that a huge premium rise is driving older people to drop private health cover just when they need it the most and pushing the burden on to the taxpayer. This is because the excesses are now between $2,000 and $4,000 per annum, and if you bear in mind what these people get annually, plus rates and every other cost, this is not what they can afford. Bearing this in mind, we want people out of hospital. The economics of preventive medicine, simply put, makes sense. That is what this bill is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EEven the Conservative Cameron Government in the United Kingdom has a National Health Service health check for people turning 65. The National Health Service points out that as we get older we are more likely to develop conditions that are rare in younger people\u2014and this is under a Conservative Party Government in Britain. If it understands the need, then why would we not? Economic modelling has estimated a saving for the National Health Services in the UK around \u00A357 million over 4 years, rising to \u00A3176 million over a 15-year period. I wish to table this at the end of this speech. But the lesson from the UK is that everyone benefits, and there is a real benefit for the health budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe great thing about this, of course, is that it will kick in in the 2016 Budget, not now. For the individual New Zealander who takes up the three free GP visits the benefits will be huge in all respects: social, emotional, physical, and mental well-being. A fair society is not a mean society. It must not be so mean that we ignore measures that will prevent seniors from sitting at home, too worried about cost of a GP visit. We want to avoid the consequences that would arise. As we get older we become more susceptible to age-related issues. God knows, over there I can see many examples already. A winter cough can easily lead to pneumonia\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e112f637178e4ec1bb82bb3684469f51\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t say that about Ron Mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238eba413716349a78a2910669a0d0168\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Ron is one of the fittest guys in this House. Hospital beds start to fill in winter as the elderly get hit by winter ills, so any sort of preventative care makes economic sense. For families and friends the checks will reduce the pressure for them to act as drivers, helpers, and carers when older relations and acquaintances have secondary health problems. The dissenting commentary against the SuperGold Health Check Bill is from groups who want\u2014and this is sinister\u2014more public health dollars targeted towards the older and the poorer. Groups advocating means testing for three free GP visits go against the gain of hugely successful SuperGold card in this country. Bear in mind that we are talking about people who have paid some of the highest taxes\u201466c in the dollar\u2014of any age group in this country\u2019s entire history. The SuperGold card was introduced by New Zealand First in 2007 so that all New Zealanders turning 65 are recognised for a lifetime of contributing to society. Making it universal is simpler than hiring an expensive army of bureaucrats to regulate it\u2014and do not forget; it was all about putting old bottoms on empty seats and removing the increased carbon footprint. Where better to place three free GP visits for over 65s than in the SuperGold card? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe recall advocating free medicine or free doctors checks for children under 6 years of age. It was opposed back then but now is so supported by some enlightened members of the National Party that they want to deliver it next year to all primary school children. We have always said that there is much to be proud of when others adopt your ideas. Another sound reason for the Government to support this bill is economics. Finance Minister, Bill English, is constantly telling us he has to nip and tuck and cut everywhere to save dollars. So right here, amidst his health-funding headache, is an instant remedy. The Government support should be coming from Peter Dunne, because back in 2008 he promised a free annual warrant of fitness check for seniors. New Zealand First is hopeful that National and United Future and the M\u0101ori Party, for very, very good reasons, because of affordability, will support this legislation. I know that some members here may have been told by caucus what they should do, but, frankly, if they let the bill go to a select committee we would know what the rest of the country thought. As I know, the M\u0101ori Party has always spoken out about looking after seniors. A simple scheme to keep them out of hospital must seem appealing. The M\u0101ori Party is dedicated, it says, to improving the lives of wh\u0101nau and these checks will certainly do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EA general practitioner visit is so much easier to organise for the families in this country than the comings and goings required when a relative is in hospital. It is not just the $10,000 per hospital visit; it is all the cost of relations in some cases, because hospitals are so far away from many of our provincial populations, which is in itself an enormous cost. We believe that the Labour Party and the Greens have got the picture and clearly will support this legislation and we are grateful for that. We believe that seniors who have worked and paid taxes for decades and have contributed to building the country to whom we owe respect and dignity should be honoured in this respect, and it will not cost us anything. It will save us money. One sure way to make this happen is to provide the health care they need. Looking after our seniors is a lesson we can take from many countries especially those in Asia who elevate their senior citizens to a high status so that everyone is respected and is understanding of their needs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe commend this bill to the House. It makes economic, social, and medical sense, and it is a way of putting a preventative health measure in place and to do it now. Thank you very much. I seek leave to table the NHS Health Check implementation review and action plan, July 2013, from Public Health England.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228864f94a992a41b18acf09810ea6e15e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I think I had better ask the member the question that the Speaker asks as to whether this is a document that has been downloaded from the internet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a1e030ee5954a118a88375552fbf5dd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I have to confess it was given to me by my staff and I have got no idea how they acquired it, but I do think, given how far it is away, it is very relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c88f07d9b394a88a1d3d8b53ceca5d4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: On that basis I will put the question. Is there any objection to that document being tabled? There is no objection. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002275b464cb5dc24b54ad916a37e11e6517\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275b464cb5dc24b54ad916a37e11e6517\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217b511b49c7d40898265aaf815264812\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222482bfcc147b49bb958811e39a6c1c02\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Simon O\u2019Connor. I thought we were going to have a very short debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00229a185a286d794f4aa0af00c080c4391a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a185a286d794f4aa0af00c080c4391a\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E It could have been. You never know. It was a great phrase: \u201CTimeo Danaos et dona ferentes\u201D\u2014I am not quite sure what the declension is in terms of the New Zealand First Party\u2014beware Greeks bearing gifts. We have just heard from the other side that this is a no-brainer, it will save money, and it is easy. Well, the National Party\u2019s position is quite clear, as is my own. We will not be supporting this bill and there are a number of good reasons not to do so. But as we start the debate around this bill, there is always that usual suggestion of \u201CLook, let\u2019s just take it through the first reading and let\u2019s just put it to the select committee and have a discussion.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI am certainly one of the people who do not necessarily believe in just sending things to select committees for the sake of it. I think we can exercise some judgment prudently and early on in order to engage with this particular first reading of the SuperGold Health Check Bill. Any attempt to try to improve the health of Kiwis is worth engaging in, is worth discussing, but just because\u2014[Interruption] They are yelling that we have to send it to a select committee. They forget that we have discussions before we come to anything like this, and that we actually have a debate at the first reading to decide whether a bill is worthy of going forward. As I said at the start, there is not really much need for this to go forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe primary reason we do not support this bill\u2014and those who understand health will understand this\u2014is that, ultimately, this issue is about targeting and putting money and support into the most necessary places. Those of us engaged in health care\u2014be it as the chair of the Health Committee, or in my work previously\u2014know that there is not unlimited cash for every desire and that we have to have priorities. We have also got to have some prudence around some of the arguments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EOne argument that the right honourable gentleman put forward is that people are getting older and therefore, as ages increase, we have to make sure that people do not go to GPs and to hospital. It does not really make a lot of sense, because actually as people are ageing it does not really matter when they engage with the GP, they will still ultimately, for a lot of people, end up in hospital or in residential care and the like. So it is not ultimately a saving further down the track. What we see as the main provisions of this bill\u2014[Interruption] I have to say one thing I notice\u2014the Opposition members are in excellent voice and will not need to go and see an ear, nose, and throat doctor. I am sure that through your vocal cord exercises here, you are doing very, very well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThis particular bill, the SuperGold Health Check Bill, argues for three free GP visits. What we know already is that, generally speaking, those over 65 are not struggling to go to the GP, certainly not in the same way that our younger people are. What we know already is that 95 percent of those over 65 are able to get to a GP at least once a year. [Interruption] Of course, Opposition members are not terribly happy to hear that statistic, so we should repeat it again. We would not want them to be hard of hearing. Of course, if the Opposition members are hard of hearing, I am pleased to tell them that the SuperGold card, enhanced by the National Government, enables them to go to the likes of an audiologist. If they also need some ophthalmological help, I think that they can, with the enhanced SuperGold card from the National Government, get some ophthalmological help as well. I am not sure they do brain transplants\u2014that is probably a bit too involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe statistics are very clear that 95 percent of those over 65 years of age are able to access, and are accessing, a GP. In fact 80 percent\u201480 percent\u2014of those over 65 years of age access a GP three times a year. So, really, you have got to ask what the problem is here. I know that in my own electorate this is not an issue. My electorate is relatively diverse. You go from the heights of \u014Cr\u0101kei down to the likes of Glen Innes. Not being a constituent MP, the honourable member would not understand this\u2014sorry; he has just become one. That is right! He has just become one, so I am sure the member is going to tell me that he has all these people knocking his door down. Well, actually, I know from my own electorate that this is not an issue. Be it from Glen Innes or from \u014Cr\u0101kei, they not demanding this. In fact, what they are asking for is more focus on young people. Of course, they might talk about Northland, seeing that my family is from up that way\u2014but in Northland they do not talk about this. In fact, they are asking where the local MP is. Look, the Government already has a wide range of support\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a37d480ba226445d985bb8542dd7fc61\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re still looking for him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227824289106e64ee2b9258db489189e68\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Still looking for him\u2014that is right. What they are looking for is, obviously, support for the elderly, and I think it is important to tell the House that there is already something called the Very Low Cost Access Scheme. That is around co-payments that people make, and I know colleagues of mine will speak to that. We already have the high use health card and the community services card. Again, those who are most in need regardless of age have access to this. Then there is the pharmacy subsidy card, which is quite well used in my electorate, which means that if you have over 20 prescription items in a year\u2014that is about $100\u2014your prescriptions become free after that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo the two primary messages I am trying to put across here are that, first and foremost, our elderly, those over 65, are already accessing primary care, and for those who are struggling, there is a multiple array of support services already in place. I think it is also very helpful to note that the Government continues to be committed to the area of health. During the Budget speeches you would have heard about the extra elective surgeries that we are having, a 47 percent increase there. We have recently announced a $47 million increase for dementia care. I know this is only a small part of health care for the aged, but we understand the importance of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe are also working on other technologies to make, say, getting your pharmaceutical scripts easier through the e-Prescription System. It is something really simple. When our aged, or anyone, goes to their GP the prescription goes straight to the pharmacist. Patients do not have to take a piece of paper. It is automatically being checked. It is better for the pharmacist, better for the doctor, and, most important, better for the patient. So ultimately this bill does not need to be implemented. The services are already being provided to the over-65s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI would suggest that this bill is a classic case of bribing people with their own money. I notice that the honourable member the Rt Hon Winston Peters talked about the high taxes in times past. If I recall correctly, that member was in those Governments that had those very high taxes. In fact, I think that the member may have been in a Government with my predecessor Muldoon, when the Government was having the high taxes and so forth. The services are already there for those retiring. They are receiving good support, be it though superannuation, through governmental supports already for health care, and, importantly, through the SuperGold card.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EOne of the things that the right honourable member will be absolutely thrilled about is that often when I go into the retirement villages and residential care services in my electorate people will mention the SuperGold card, and they are very, very pleased that the Rt Hon Winston Peters introduced it, which is great\u2014it is always a positive way to start the conversation. What is excellent is that by the time I finish chatting with them, they are thanking the National Government for turning the SuperGold card into something absolutely fantastic. So I think it is important to acknowledge the honourable member for starting the journey\u2014the first step on the ladder. National, proudly, has taken it a lot, lot further and we pay substantial moneys now\u2014and rightly so\u2014into the SuperGold card, which is helping across a wide array of areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo, fundamentally, this desire to extend it for this particular reason is really just political posturing, if you will. As we said at the start, this is not something that is well needed. The member himself costed this at about $69 million. I was going to say it was something between $64 million and $100 million a year. Is that really the costings that we need? Again, I do not think we do. We have to be prudent with the health spend. It is the largest ever\u2014just shy of $16 billion now, under this Government\u2014but every dollar counts. In fact, we heard that very clearly today from the Minister when we were discussing the estimates\u2014we need to be prudent with every dollar. So targeting up to $100 million towards those over 65 to go to their GPs when they are already going to their GPs, or are in residential care or villages and are accessing primary health care is not a prudent spend, particularly when you contrast it with what every medical professional\u2014GP or specialist\u2014will tell you, which is that we need to target our young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe Health Committee before me did a fantastic piece of work on the period of time from pre-conception to 3 years old\u2014that is where the most efficacious use of our health care spending is, and where we need to focus. It is one of the reasons why we as a Government were happy to have free health care for under-sixes and why most recently we are moving towards having free health care for those under 13. That is where the efficacious spend is, and not in better health outcomes, because, importantly, they are the ones not engaging with primary health care in the way that they should. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo I want to conclude by reiterating the National Party\u2019s desire not to vote for this bill. We acknowledge the great intention of the member in bringing this here\u2014for political reasons or otherwise. Sometimes a SuperGold card can help you get cheaper tyres, hearing checks, and so forth, but a SuperGold card cannot prevent someone from coming up with ideas that are a bit shoddy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd2abe2b8b654f4dba3e8dcadd570e91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd2abe2b8b654f4dba3e8dcadd570e91\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that is 10 minutes of our lives that we will never get back. What a tragic waste of space\u2014absolute waste of space\u2014from the patronising heights of Or\u0101kei, telling us that older people do not need better support to go to a doctor. Thank you very much for that contribution, Mr Simon O\u2019Connor. I am so pleased it is on the public record, and I will enjoy knocking on the doors of SuperGold card holders in your electorate and making sure that they have heard your contribution to this debate. I want to commend the Rt Hon Winston Peters for bringing this bill back to the House. I think it is a very good bill and I am delighted to be supporting it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe member Simon O\u2019Connor, who, tragically, is the chair of the Health Committee still, I think, said that National would do anything to improve the health of New Zealanders\u2014any proposal would have good discussion. Three minutes into his speech, the first speaker from National said that he was going to vote against this bill. One of those statements is not true, and perhaps neither of them is true, but you cannot give a good idea any consideration unless it goes from this House to a select committee, and that is where it should have gone. The member also made I think it was a sort of Ian McKelvie - type of contribution. Remember Ian McKelvie a couple of weeks ago said that he was wondering whether there was any difference between people-trafficking and sheep rustling? Ian McKelvie said that in the House. Mr O\u2019Connor said: \u201CIt doesn\u2019t really matter when old people go to the doctor. You know, if it\u2019s early on in their illness or later on, they will end up in hospital anyway.\u201D It was an extraordinary comment. It is on the public record. It is in Hansard. It will be another one that I think will need to be distributed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWhy do we not get some facts on the table to consider in this bill? It costs about $30 to $35 for a person who is over 65 to go to the doctor\u2014that is the average across New Zealand. Over half of over-65-year-olds in New Zealand are totally dependent on New Zealand superannuation, and if you go up to the next 20 percent, 80 percent of their income is from superannuation. We can be very proud of our level of superannuation compared with many countries, but it does not leave a lot left over. It does not leave a lot left in your pocket every week, and if you have had something big break down\u2014whether it is a fridge, a washing machine, or a car, or the roof is leaking and you need some big expenditure\u2014that would chew away at your savings pretty fast. If you have been on a low fixed income for your entire life and then you go on to superannuation, then going to the doctor might just be that expense you cannot afford. We know that if frail people are sick and do not get treatment, they end up in hospital, and who wins from that? Who wins from a person with a preventable illness not being treated and ending up in hospital? I cannot see any winners out of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor clearly can see a winner out of having someone who is 75, who has contributed all their life to the good of our community in one way or another, who cannot afford to go to the doctor ending up in hospital. He said: \u201CThat doesn\u2019t matter. They would have ended up in hospital at some stage anyway.\u201D Three doctors visits a year for an over-65-year-old is about the equivalent of a quarter of one hair straightener at the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. For every pensioner who has three doctors visits a year, it is about a quarter of a hair straightener. I think that for every person who gets early treatment and who ends up not getting worse, not being sick, not being hospitalised, or just not being really unwell, actually\u2014that is bad for them, even if it does not cost us money\u2014it is a good investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI would not often say this to the Rt Hon Winston Peters with regard to his view on people for superannuation, but I think he could have gone further in this bill. I would like to see him go further. Access to primary health care should be something that this House should strive for, so that people who get unwell get access to a doctor or a nurse as early as possible. If it is money that is the barrier, then we should ask what the priority is for spending of this Government and this Parliament. I think older people should be quite high on the list. They do not have an opportunity to make additional money often. They are dependent on what is, compared with all of us in this House, a low fixed income. This bill would have given them better quality of life and reduced our health expenditure. With just 1 percent of uptake of these people not going into hospital, it would have been financially neutral. I urge the Government members to think again, support old people, and support this bill\u2019s referral to the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002264be14e56e1845f99bba471006dc1dbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264be14e56e1845f99bba471006dc1dbb\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E The intention of this member\u2019s bill that we are speaking on tonight would be to provide three free doctors visits for people over 65, which in itself is commendable, but it is very unnecessary and very expensive. Over the next 10 years one of the challenges facing the public health service will be the increase in the population of people aged over 80 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe member Ruth Dyson stood up earlier and said that the esteemed chair of the Health Committee had said that these people do not need to be supported. What the chair of our select committee actually said was that these people are being supported anyway because, under this Government, those over 65 who struggle to pay to go to the doctor are already supported, and, as he also said, that is the group that is less likely to be deterred from going to the doctor. We need to be more supportive of our younger people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ELet me tell you that given that 80 percent of the people who are over 65 now are actually going to the doctor at least three times a year, it is unlikely to significantly increase the number of GP visitations or to decrease the number of hospitalisations. So when we think in the context that over the next 10 years we will be worried about the costs associated with the number of people over 80 years old, imagine how much that measure is going to increase the cost to the system. I think that, despite the fact that you can retire at 65, some people who are well over 65 are actually quite fit and healthy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EOn Monday I did a volunteers day out in the electorate with a number of different groups. For part of that day I did Meals on Wheels. The couple who so kindly offered to take me out and around to do Meals on Wheels were celebrating on that very same day their 58th wedding anniversary, and here they were actually out delivering Meals on Wheels, and they were going to a Lions meeting that night. I cannot thank enough the elderly people in our community who get out and volunteer and care for each other. That, actually, in itself, gives them company and keeps them fit and healthy. I also had another man in my electorate who is 80. He says to me that he used to drive the elderly people to their medical appointments. Now he is actually driving his peers, and it is an honour for him to be able to get out and do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EFor those who struggle to visit a GP, there is a wide range of support available, and that includes high-user health and community services cards, and it includes a pharmacy subsidy card. This policy, as our select committee chair said, is likely to cost between $64 million and $100 million. But that actually does not include administration costs, it does not include after-hours GP visits, and it does not include prescriptions. Even the New Zealand Medical Association chair, Dr Mark Peterson, said the policy is unnecessary and difficult to justify, and he went on to say: \u201Cwe need to target increased funding to those who really need it, those people who can\u2019t afford to go to the doctor otherwise.\u201D As we said before, 80 percent of those people are going to the doctor anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EIn terms of health care, I think this Government is doing pretty well, and I think we are supporting those people. We have also put an extra $76.1 million in the next 4 years to go into palliative and hospice care. We have increased spending on aged residential care, and it is really commendable, I think, the work that has been done in this area. Also, the number of hours of home support that are going in now has been lifted from 9.3 million up to 10.9 million in 2014-15. So that is prevention, that is an example of communities looking after themselves, and it is actually about people taking care of each other, with support from our Government, and helping each other lead a long, healthy, sustainable life. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u00224ff1b6be7d5a4ff6b55b1875b995e9e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ff1b6be7d5a4ff6b55b1875b995e9e8\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will be supporting this bill at its first reading. We believe that the kind of conversation that is just beginning, perhaps, in the House tonight would be advanced best by select committee discussion, where we can actually listen to some evidence as well as argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EHealth care should be a fundamental right for all New Zealanders. There should be no access barriers, certainly not financial ones. Services should be universally available. Services should be preventive in focus. Services should be integrated. They are pretty good goals, are they not? Those goals are not necessarily the Green Party\u2019s goals; we did not invent them. They are actually the goals of the New Zealand public health system, as set out by the Savage Government in the 1930s. The Savage Government set out, in its establishment of the New Zealand public health system, to actually make primary care\u2014doctors\u2019 visits, as we would say now\u2014free for all people who needed them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EBut it was blocked in doing so by the New Zealand chapter of the British Medical Association, in fact. What we have seen over the years is a steady increase in what is called the co-payments\u2014the amount of money that a patient has to pay when they go to see that doctor. With the capitation formula that we now have, the district health boards are in a position to impose a cap on that, but the cap tends to be still set at a pretty high level. Even those practices that are called very low-cost access practices, which are located in parts of the country that have a very large proportion of their population on very low incomes, still have a co-payment for patients of $15 a visit. The evidence is that even $15 per visit, which is about the cheapest that you will find if you are over the age of 6, currently\u2014even at that level that is prohibitive for many people seeking health care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThat is a problem. It is a problem because our New Zealand Health Strategy, and the health strategies that I am sure every party in this House would actually support, are ones that attempt to prevent people from becoming ill in the first place, and, if they do become ill, that seek to treat them in community settings close to where they live. So if you have that as your strategic intent but then the State places a financial barrier to accessing those primary care services, it is a case of cutting off one\u2019s nose to spite one\u2019s face. It is a problem that we seem to have all too often in the health sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EMost of the people who are lying in the beds in our medical and surgical wards in hospitals are older people. If it is possible to actually stop them getting there by treating their problems in the community, that would be a very good thing, with health benefits and cost savings, thereby distributing funds to other causes. Having said that, it is certainly true that in the New Zealand Health Survey people over the age of 65 were numerically and proportionately the group that was least likely to miss out on primary care because of costs. However, because of the number of older people and their frequency of requirement of primary care, that is still a very substantial number. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003ESo our preference, of course, would be to return to a system in which primary care was completely free, but failing the funds for that\u2014and I rather suspect that the Government\u2019s priority on new motorways, for example, means that probably we cannot possibly afford that\u2014we actually need to prioritise how we best spend the money that is available to us. Making primary care more available to New Zealanders is a very sensible and wise use of health care dollars. It is an open question as to whether the universal age group - based subsidisation is the best way to do that, as this bill provides, or whether it is more targeted assistance based on socio-economic status. But that is the discussion that we need to have at the select committee, and therefore we strongly support the bill at this stage and look forward to the Government perhaps changing its mind, taking a more rational approach to this bill, and one that is more conducive to discussion and debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaf2bfc796774cbea3579131c89f4009\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaf2bfc796774cbea3579131c89f4009\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak on this bill. We support the intention of improved access to health care for older people, but this bill is not the right tool to do that. It suffers from a lack of understanding of how medical services are provided. It is broad and unfocused, and because of that it is also fiscally unsustainable, and I will give examples of all of this. Firstly, let us imagine the deployment of this bill, with free doctors visits and three free health checks. What is a doctor\u2019s visit? Well, you know, that is kind of a hard problem. In fact, academics and others have pondered over that for many years. What is a doctor\u2019s visit? Is a blood pressure check a doctor\u2019s visit? Is a repeat prescription a doctor\u2019s visit? When does a doctor\u2019s visit start? Is it when you enter the building? Is it when you check in with reception? Is it when clinical notes are first entered in the computer? You see, all this matters because, as we know through years of medical audit, we need to be able to reliably map service to funding\u2014the details matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EBut here in four pages, despite others spending many years trying to figure it out, it seems like we have an answer. The answer is in the interpretation clause, clause 4: a doctor\u2019s visit means to a doctor who is a general practitioner. What a disservice to the largest medical workforce in New Zealand, our nursing workforce. Under this bill, this lazy definition, nurses are incapable of undertaking a health check, and I would hotly contest that\u2014lazy drafting. And what of nurse practitioners who run clinics in remote regions\u2014Te H\u0101pua or Te Kao? Amongst some of the high-risk populations that this bill seeks to reach, they would miss out under this bill\u2019s poorly drafted words. A health check\u2014what is that exactly? Is a phone call a health check? Is a blood test a health check? You know, it would have been so easy to add a bit more detail and carry the intent of the bill by adding one word: preventive. OK\u2014got it. There are a whole lot of descriptions around what preventive health checks are, but no, no. It is lazy drafting, and it just adds further confusion to an increasingly confused bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIt gets even worse. The bill espouses the aim of \u201Cignoring a minor ailment that could [get worse]\u201D. What is a minor ailment? Because, you know, the doctor\u2019s code in what is called recoding and systematized nomenclature of medicine\u2014there is no code for minor ailments. It just does not exist. It is a lazy interpretation and lazy drafting. Even if we accept this, let us look at two scenarios. An older person thinks they have a minor ailment. They visit a GP, and in fact nothing is wrong. Do they then have to pay? Conceivably, this could increase the costs to older people. Let us take the other extreme. What about the person who has a major illness who visits under this scheme? Will they be excluded because they do not have a minor ailment? It is poor drafting, lazy drafting, and exactly the people whom we want to target are not targeted. Therein lies the confusion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIf we start at the front of the bill, the confusion actually starts in the general policy statement, where it reads: \u201C[The bill will have] far-reaching benefits in terms of social, emotional, physical, and psychological wellbeing,\u201D. Does the member not think that older M\u0101ori might be a target population; if so, why does this part of the bill completely miss out one of the fundamentals of M\u0101ori health, which is spiritual well-being? It is completely eliminated in this description\u2014not interested. Under the most common framework for M\u0101ori health, te whare tapa wh\u0101, spiritual health is one of the sides. It is lazy drafting. It misses the target, and that is important to this bill\u2014targeting; exactly that. This is a major problem. There is no targeting. Everyone gets three visits, despite the fact that 90 percent of New Zealanders report they are in good, very good, or excellent health, and for those over 75, 80 percent report good, very good, or excellent health. There are other targeted tools\u2014very low-cost access, high-user health cards, prescription subsidy cards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EWe know the sector would struggle with this bill. As my colleague Barbara Kuriger said, the New Zealand Medical Association chair, Dr Mark Peterson, said that the policy is unnecessary. It is short on detail, short on facts, and unsustainable. It is short on everything. It is more of a haiku than a bill. It is just short and I cannot commend it at all. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u002250f9b789d4884c1386e2fec727127219\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250f9b789d4884c1386e2fec727127219\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E I welcome that speech by Shane Reti for three reasons. Firstly, it did not make any sense at all, and that was absolutely obvious to anybody who is watching this debate; secondly, it shows the National Party members for who they are: heartless and unable to understand the benefits that can be contributed to our society from making sure that our older people are well looked after; and, thirdly, older people vote\u201490 percent of them vote. If they are watching tonight they will be saying to the National Party: \u201CThat\u2019s the last time I vote for them\u2014those heartless, illogical people opposing this bill.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe SuperGold card has been one of the real triumphs of the last 10 years. I have to say that most of the credit has gone to the man with the golden card, Winston Peters\u2014but remember, it was actually done and agreed to under a Labour Government. I have to say that now, belatedly, we want to take a little bit of the credit for it. Quite frankly, the SuperGold card has made an enormous amount of difference to New Zealanders and older New Zealanders right across the board. I do not mean just the fact that they can be helped out by getting on to a bus, or whatever else needs to be done, when they do it. The fact is that\u2014and so many people say this to me\u2014they are getting out. That is the most important thing. They are getting out there in the community, taking their trip across to Waiheke Island. I know that Bill English does not like the fact that they are charging up all this money, but actually the money is so insignificant compared with the benefits to those people getting out of their homes, getting real value out of that SuperGold card, and being able to get out there and prolong their lives and be healthier as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThis bill is simply extending the value that is already there, which is to provide free doctors visits three times a year. I mean, three times a year? Is this Government really opposing their visiting a doctor three times a year so that they can get checked up, and so they can get to know what the problem is before it gets complicated into something that will hospitalise them? In hospital, as the previous speaker Shane Reti knows, that is going to cost them\u2014how much does it cost in hospital fees for one night?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ef4c8cfe9e64f1abdd67db75cc25981\u0022\u003ELouisa Wall\u003C/span\u003E: $1,400.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246c42407d19c4b3c8094e81e6f1c45df\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: It is $1,400, compared with going along to see a doctor, which might cost $50. This is actually a saving in health services, not a cost. So I do not understand for one minute what the logic is in opposing this bill. Firstly, the bill makes good, common sense; secondly, frankly, it means that these people, who are some of the most vulnerable in society, get to be seen; and, thirdly, ultimately it will save money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EIt makes absolutely no sense to oppose it. But I am absolutely delighted that the Government is opposing this bill, because anybody who is watching this on television tonight will say: \u201CWhat a heartless, out-of-touch, arrogant Government this is.\u201D This is from a group of people who vote in every single election. That will be felt at the ballot box. It will be felt by this Government, and they will see this Government for what it is\u2014not standing up for the elderly in society. Those people have contributed and those people have paid their taxes all throughout their lives. They are being denied the opportunity of getting along to a doctor three times a year to get a check-up, to save us\u2014us taxpayers and everybody out there watching as well\u2014more money, as a result of their being able to go along and get that ailment or whatever it is seen to early, rather than having it get complicated and their having to go into hospital at $1,000 a night. This is illogical. The National Party should be backing this bill, just as the Labour Party is backing New Zealand First.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00226310af1fc27f444498256a77a9784b12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226310af1fc27f444498256a77a9784b12\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E That was one of the member David Shearer\u2019s better speeches. In fact, all that was missing was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022192748da61c44faa84f2199278589260\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: The best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c0cc4642a32436aac9bcea69d0e7ca0\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: It was his best. It may have been his best speech. If he had given speeches with as much vigour, passion, and commitment when he was the leader of the Labour Party, he would not have needed to hold up the two dead fish, and we know where that led him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI am speaking in this debate as a member of the Health Committee. I had the privilege of being on that select committee in the last Parliament. I do not come from a medical background, but one of the things that you learn as part of our select committee process is that you learn a lot about subjects that you did not know much about when you came into this place. The select committee process gives a great learning experience to a whole range of members. I listened with great and careful intent to the contribution of my colleague and friend Dr Shane Reti, who was speaking only a few minutes ago. When Dr Reti speaks, he speaks from the experience base of having been a long-serving, dedicated, professional GP in practice, on the ground, who knows how GPs work. I think that he made a very valuable contribution in his speech this evening, when he asked the very basic question as to how you do actually define what a doctors visit is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EHe made a very good point, because this bill, in its current drafting, does not really make that clear. This is a bill that simply provides that if you are a valid SuperGold card holder and if you are enrolled as a patient of a primary health-care organisation, then you will be entitled to three free doctors visits per year. But the bill does not go on to define, in any way, what that might entail and how it might be. For instance, would it be, simply, a blood pressure check at the premises of a GP, conducted by a practitioner nurse? I think those are good questions. Dr Reti made, I think, a very good point that the bill, in terms of its drafting, is lazy, and that it is a lazy piece of waffly legislation. He talked about how he thought that some more care could have been given to its drafting in order to target an approach like this better. I am not one who is cynical enough to believe that the member sponsoring and introducing this bill is doing so for purely political motives\u2014that he is doing so simply as a grab for votes from those older, senior New Zealanders who feel that they have the need to go and see a GP. The statistics are actually very compelling: most older New Zealanders are not the ones who have difficulty going to a GP. In fact, the statistics are very clear that they go to a GP very regularly and do not have a problem in that area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIn the last Parliament, the Health Committee did a very good piece of work under the chairmanship of Dr Paul Hutchison\u2014another medical practitioner of long standing and high professional regard. The committee put together a very detailed report. We did an inquiry and it was called Inquiry into improving child health outcomes and preventing child abuse with a focus from preconception until three years of age. Why I refer to this is because the evidence that we gleaned as a result of that inquiry was absolutely, overwhelmingly compelling. In terms of where we spend our health dollar, as a society and as a nation, it was estimated in that report that we spend, at the moment, probably well over half of the total Vote Health on the last 2 years of life. But the report advocated for a bigger spend in the period from preconception through to the age of 3, simply because there is much less need for care in your senior years if we get that part right. I want to quote just one thing from the report. It said: \u201CThe evidence is very strong; the first few years of life from pre-conception are fundamentally important for a broad range of child health outcomes, and for the achievements of children as adolescents and adults.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI think that one of the faults of this bill is that it is not science based, it is not targeted, and it does not do what it proposes to do. As I say, I am not cynically motivated, so I do not think that the mover and the sponsor of this bill is doing so for the wrong reasons; I think that he is probably attempting to do it for the right reasons. But it simply does not achieve what he sets out to do, and, therefore, I cannot bring myself to support this bill. It needs a lot more work. It is a lazy bill, and I cannot support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u002225d542718f79460c9b90a06f9046e2db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225d542718f79460c9b90a06f9046e2db\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. Thank you very much for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. As a member of the Health Committee, I firstly want to take the opportunity to congratulate the Rt Hon Winston Peters on his bill, and also to acknowledge Barbara Stewart, one of my colleagues on the Health Committee, who was the original proponent of this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI want to read a quote. It says: \u201COur vision is for a society where people can age positively, where older people are highly valued and where they are recognised as an integral part of families and communities. New Zealand will be a positive place in which to age when older people can say that they live in a society that values them, acknowledges their contributions and encourages their participation.\u201D This is from Older New Zealanders: Healthy, independent, connected and respected. It is from the Office for Senior Citizens, it is dated October 2013, and it is part of New Zealand\u2019s Positive Ageing Strategy. One of the interesting components of the strategy is that it is actually about health. So if you go to that particular document, what it says in its first bullet point is actually about support to stay well. There are 55,000 New Zealanders who are over 65; this Government and this strategy commit to supporting over-65s to stay well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EBut when you actually look at how it defines how older people are supported to stay well, there is a big focus on the high-use health card, and one of my colleagues across the House mentioned that earlier. In fact, only 14,300 of those 55,000, 65-plus benefit from the high-use health card. That is only 2.6 percent of the New Zealanders who would qualify under this piece of legislation for a visit to a doctor. I concur with all of my colleagues on this side of the House who have contributed today. If older people have an opportunity to go to the doctor\u2014which, actually, is about a wellness focus. It is about prevention, and we heard a lot of that focus in the Health Committee today, given we had the Minister of Health talk to us about the Healthy Families New Zealand initiative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo this Government has got a huge commitment in primary health, working with communities and preventing their need for secondary and tertiary intervention, and it seems that this is a policy idea that actually has some merit. I would have thought that, as a reasonable House, we would actually send this piece of legislation to a select committee where we can have the discussion and the debate that we have had tonight. Actually, finding all the holes in this piece of legislation, picking on drafting issues, is not constructive. We in this House all have a vested interest to ensure that everybody\u2014and particularly our older people\u2014has three GP visits every year if it means it prevents them from going to hospital. So a $35 cost, which is a hospital visit, actually pays for 45 older people to have a GP visit as opposed to a 1-night stay in hospital. It costs us $1,400 for an older person to stay in hospital for 1 night. If you have pneumonia the average stay is 10 days. If these three visits can prevent an older person over 65 from getting pneumonia and going to hospital for 10 days, I would have thought that this House would want to debate the merits of this particular policy proposal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo what I am saddened to say is that this is actually about the money and fundamentally it is about priorities. Just because it was not the Government\u2019s idea, why is the Government not actually allowing us to have the debate, to do what we did through the inquiry that focused on the needs of young people? Yes, I am a bit sad, because I think this is a member\u2019s bill that warranted serious consideration by this House. If it could prevent older New Zealanders going to hospital and actually contribute to an efficient and effective health system, which we are all committed to achieving, then this is a sad day. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022 data-id=\u002258d705e57ea04466acda48ff4b86c420\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258d705e57ea04466acda48ff4b86c420\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E I rise tonight to support\u2014yes, that is right, you heard me correctly: to support\u2014the SuperGold Health Check Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274484b4cc0954e848a381e0ccdf2747c\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a568870ca7c74d7f857049f536997a92\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. You might find that I am often correct\u2014something you may need to learn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b36188e3745b4d25ba24cdef92869898\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I think the member advising me about needing to learn that is probably not the proper thing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fad47425b276415fbc65e3814adfb359\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies. The members of the New Zealand First Party might find that I am often correct. Yes, it may be some surprise that I am supporting this, given the events that unfolded in question time today. But you need to understand, e te Mana Whakaw\u0101, that there is no festering turd of resentment here in the M\u0101ori Party. In fact, despite the baseless accusations against my co-leader, I am happy to support Koro Winitana and his well-herded followers, and we will not be dissuaded from supporting this proposed legislation. Why? Because this legislation is aimed at alleviating the hardships that our people face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EI do have a few concerns, though. I wonder, given the aim of the bill to support the needs of our elderly folk, our most senior members of our country, whether there might be some conflict of interest from the member who is proposing the bill. But far it be from me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b09bb17881a4bdca2f76195032e66c3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume her seat. There are two warnings now. That was an inappropriate comment, and the member will withdraw it. The second warning is that the member is reading her speech, and she must stop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b80846bf86c44a0aeb9a1b607972dc5\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX\u003C/span\u003E: Fair call, Mr Assistant Speaker. I withdraw. I will no longer read the speech, but I might refer to it every now and again. I do withdraw those comments about the member who is proposing the bill. There should be no aspersions cast that there is any feathering of nests here\u2014or Zimmer frames. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6ee13a8d44e46aabc816f3eb39058fd\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume her seat again. In her withdrawal, she did more than say \u201CI withdraw.\u201D; she repeated\u2014she repeated\u2014the point. Although the member might find it funny, I think defiance of the Speaker when asked to withdraw is not something that leads to happiness for members\u2014I have some experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295cd5040b4ac4a27aaca781e64f59abe\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I will try to keep it under control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EI do want to support the bill, though, in all seriousness, because it is aimed at alleviating the hardships of our people\u2014and our M\u0101ori people specifically do suffer in this country from actually living 8 years less on average than non-M\u0101ori. It would be hard for New Zealand First to add to this, given that it does not appreciate race-based policies. However, it is a suggestion that I think should be taken up\u2014that in fact if M\u0101ori live 8 years less, then maybe the benefits of this legislation should be supported to take effect at 60, the way they used to be, and not at 65, as it is now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EWe have moved into a time when it is more a case of economy versus society. If it is for the fact of money that we are making this decision, we need to think again. We need to move away from the economy and back to society. Our older people are well respected. If they were not here to give us guidance and advice, we would be less worthy of that in this country. We would be failing to uphold the richness of their numerous years. I think that we would like to support the legislation to ensure that they live long and healthy lives, and to improve the state of M\u0101ori. That is why we stand as the M\u0101ori Party to support this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EYou will know, or perhaps you may not, Mr Assistant Speaker, that in the East Coast region there is much disparity, but we get most of our support on the marae from our old people. I know when I go up the coast and up to Wairarapa that those numbers are dwindling quickly. There is great hardship on our older people, especially at this time of year, and that only needs to be witnessed\u2014[Interruption] You would know that, actually, if you\u2014[Interruption] The members might understand that I am speaking in support of this bill, so their yelling out is not helping. I would think that if we concentrate on keeping our elderly people alive, and offer that support to the marae and to their communities, then we will be the richer for it in this country. Therefore, we support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccae6f0cb2ad485c9ca87b0d038266c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccae6f0cb2ad485c9ca87b0d038266c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I want to thank those members from the Labour Party, the Green Party, and the M\u0101ori Party who have backed the SuperGold Health Check Bill with their senior members and former Ministers who understand the common sense behind it. National led off with laymen and laywomen backbenchers. National rubbished free doctors visits for primary school children in the past. Of course, Mr O\u2019Connor forgot to say that it was New Zealand First\u2019s idea, and he claimed that it was National\u2019s policy. Then, having rubbished the SuperGold card in the past, according to Mr O\u2019Connor, MP for T\u0101maki, it was National\u2019s policy, he claimed tonight. It must be personally debilitating and gutting to be forced to stand up in this House and make those claims, when they know that they are demonstrably and palpably just false. Mr Reti, the third National speaker, the person who has got a qualification as a medical doctor, the MP for Whangarei, got up and said that in the UK the Conservative Party and Prime Minister, David Cameron, do not know what they are talking about. That is what he said, in essence. And then he said that Te H\u0101pua and Te Kao, the two most northern settlements in my electorate of Northland, would miss out. How, he could not say. He then posed as an antipodean Blackstone or an expert in draft statute law. He questioned the bill\u2019s drafting. Why? He could not say. And then he said that the bill left out M\u0101ori spiritual health. He wants a free visit to a tohunga. He is so out of date that he wants a free visit to a tohunga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ENational gives $42 million per year to Skycity, and yet says we cannot afford this bill. National gives $40 million and massive power discounts to Rio Tinto, and yet says we cannot afford this bill. National gives $800 million to the South Canterbury Finance bailout, and then says we cannot afford this bill. Mr Reti\u2019s question\u2014and how electrifying it was\u2014asked: \u201CHow do you define a doctor\u2019s visit?\u201D. He himself could not say. But the most senior Minister in the National Government, Chris Finlayson, regarded this debate from his colleagues as a substitute for Mogadon and spent most of the time asleep. I hope it was a pleasant sleep at the time. Where was the Minister for Senior Citizens? Well, that Minister could not be seen for dust and small pebbles. No, they put up their political cannon fodder, like lambs to the slaughter. If that is the best that the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271e12cf4f41e41608ba2dbadb96a6c31\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What is it about sheep and you lot? You\u2019re obsessed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a663ff468d7248828ef7a41826d9ec01\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. It is not sheep to the Arabian slaughter, but lambs to the political slaughter. Mr O\u2019Connor, that was a disgraceful performance. The reality is that Conservative Parties around the world know that this works. If you are going to make a complaint without having any substitute wording, that will not wash any more. We are required to be professional in what we do. This legislation has precedent\u2014precedent in the foundation source of the National Party in this country. How sad it is that the British Conservative Party might remember Disraeli and people like that, but this new modern brand of National Party has no philosophical basis at all. That is why National opposed the people who we know used to be so loyal to them. Here comes the warning. This is a fatal night for those backbench members. There will come a time soon when they will realise that they should have stood up for themselves and their constituents, not for the hopeless political organisers at the top of the ninth floor of the Beehive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221113f2e864fb4cdabaa80fcab8acbb0d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the SuperGold Health Check Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022837dd98c52f842348ce1352ccaddf760\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022837dd98c52f842348ce1352ccaddf760\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Because I thought I had misheard what the National Party whip had given for another party, we did not go for a personal vote. But this is so close that I believe we should have a personal vote, and I am moving that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc69ffd8b7d94cfead0146ac1eb0234b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc69ffd8b7d94cfead0146ac1eb0234b\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There is no reason to hold a personal vote. The member must, in calling for a personal vote, have good reason to believe that members are absent and so the vote is invalid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022af7c236df93f4d519362ef36ccb7f7d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af7c236df93f4d519362ef36ccb7f7d6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I realise what you have just said. But when a vote is that close\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a982e7c1262d4ebca2aff1f4ab6718c2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Not close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a2e935da7e74bfab426319b17bdddeb\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. When it is that close, with respect, there have been times in the past, and it goes back a long time, when people have given their votes and they have not been here. I have got an example where one night three people did not make it here into this House but they were counted and then it was found that they were not here. I think with a vote that close on an issue so critical, we should have a personal vote and that is what I seek to move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f21ebe7162ae40d584f4358a13702e48\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002295251288e01649faac8cdecf823ab8e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295251288e01649faac8cdecf823ab8e3\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not require any assistance in respect of this matter. I have given my ruling on it, and nothing the right honourable member has said has caused me to change my mind from that call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u002204f9f66676b94495a67af9f4bab583a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204f9f66676b94495a67af9f4bab583a4\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2ec3cf3fda147dea9fc4fa6cd41a348\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I hope the member is not going to challenge on some frivolous basis, but I will hear his point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260e7d45158f64f23b46e32a6c31448fa\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I do hope that you do not rule this as frivolous. It is not intended to be, at all. But in your deliberation you said that where the party believes that a member is absent\u2014Standing Order 144 clearly states: \u201CA personal vote may be held following a party vote\u201D, which has been called for, \u201Cif a member requests one\u201D, which the member has, \u201Cand the Speaker considers that the decision on the party vote is so close that a personal vote may make a material difference to the result.\u201D It makes no mention of us having to believe that someone is not present in the House or may not be here. The vote could not be closer. It is a vote of 60 to 61, and we are exercising our right under Standing Order 144 in asking for a personal vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea91656d6a504c6f94071d429f8b8486\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea91656d6a504c6f94071d429f8b8486\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. The member has made his point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022523bc3e49e4f4315ae3405e147a8deeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022523bc3e49e4f4315ae3405e147a8deeb\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Deputy Speaker, in support of your decision I want to draw the House\u2019s attention to McGee\u2019s Parliamentary Practice in New Zealand, page 208, which goes directly to this matter. \u201CThe Speaker has emphasised that closeness on a party vote result cannot, by itself, be enough to justify holding a personal vote. Depending on party standings in the House, every party vote might be close.\u201D It goes on to describe a number of scenarios where\u2014perhaps due to confusion\u2014there may be a reason; closeness is definitely not one of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bbe050ffd934261981003d87db94beb\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00228b9f70864fe646949bc061b2c832fedf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b9f70864fe646949bc061b2c832fedf\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not going to take any further comments or further points of order in respect of this matter. I know the matter has been controversial, I know it has been well canvassed, and I recognise that in a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203db60e7081941dc8d74da69c5994cec\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229666308fe7e1439da9d5076805ed3a06\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not accepting a point of order. [Interruption] I am still giving a ruling. The member will be seated. I was still speaking when he stood and sought a point of order. He should sit down now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220037dab56f224f59b104e16f412f562f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No. I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is a new point of order, and I am entitled to put it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279a0abc0617a478f8de889f94fcc1662\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member will be seated. The member will recall that he started speaking\u2014making this point of order\u2014while I was still speaking. I have not finished yet. He should stay in his seat. [Interruption] The Speaker\u2019s word is paramount. The National Party whip has cast the vote. There is no reason why there should be any doubt whatsoever, and if the member wants to restate his point of order\u2014that it is 60-61, it could not be closer\u2014he may well make his point. But in this Parliament\u2014the member should be seated while I am speaking. I have shown the member, as the elder in this House, due regard, so I would expect him to show the person seated in the Chair due regard. The member will recall that in this House, especially under MMP, votes have often been close, and I am not going to call a personal vote on the basis of closeness. If the member has a new point of order, he may well put it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00223c374c1c5e824d789f778b68ce583f62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c374c1c5e824d789f778b68ce583f62\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you very much. If you are going to take the advice of the National Minister by reciting McGee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022662421a9c099457fb2d5b3b422cd659b\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf902f2d1c034ca8b953bfbbf62dcab1\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The point of order is that the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e1dcc0c893740ce9ecfbfc7a2c21c26\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd719cc9d73b4320b0831ada36c81145\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The point of order is\u2014first of all, you will hear this point of order in silence. But the real issue is this: the Standing Order is clear. If it was not, you would go to McGee, but he is not the authority where the Standing Order is so precise, as my colleague Ron Mark said. Now that, any lawyer will tell you, is a fact. So therefore, to have heard that argument and give it credence simply is not the way this House should be conducting its affairs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022e21c7773a4f744c69c30739f9a2f2705\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e21c7773a4f744c69c30739f9a2f2705\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly right, and I will be the judge of how the House is going to be conducting its affairs. The fact that the Hon Michael Woodhouse happened to agree with the ruling that I had already made did not sway my mind one way or the other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a0eb00e93fde4dcba8ae9524cceb7262\u0022\u003ELocal Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Bill (No\u00A03)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229585beb841c24911b024a86fa41ef467\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u0022f30407575b8b45d5b85e296cee1d46e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f30407575b8b45d5b85e296cee1d46e2\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Local Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Bill (No 3) be now read a first time. It is an honour to be able to speak in the House on members\u2019 day, and particularly to speak on the Local Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Bill (No 3). It is always a privilege to have a bill drawn out of the ballot. First of all, I have to acknowledge that in this case the bill was actually in the name of the Hon Maggie Barry\u2014just to acknowledge that fact, then, to have been able to take that bill on. But, still, to be able to have a member\u2019s bill in the House is quite an honour. Often when member\u2019s bills are in the House and are given from one member to the other, one looks for the connection. And so in this case, in 2010 I was a candidate for Citizens and Ratepayers and stood in the first of the Auckland Council elections. At that time, it was my first experience of actually standing for a local government position, and it was at that time that I realised that, actually, the issue with the Auckland Council was the ability of seven territorial authorities to come together in the hope that a sense of unification would bring greater gains for Auckland as a whole. So I, along with a number of others, actually did that. For me, the Auckland Council has been one of those situations where we have seen that there should be greater gains. The aspects around Auckland planning create one single strategic spatial plan for 20 to 30 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThere are a number of things that I think are important and that actually go to the heart of this bill. This bill\u2014its purpose\u2014is to improve fairness in the local electorate system by prohibiting candidates from serving on more than one local board at the same time. We know that local boards play an important role, and so although we have the governing body, the local boards are in a position where they are able to work with local communities to distribute funds that are much needed, in a way that does make a difference. That is despite the executive, the governing body, as well. But, in fairness, one of the issues that has come up\u2014and hence the reason for this bill\u2014is the provision that allows for people to be able to be present on one or more local boards. I will draw to the attention of the Deputy Speaker, and also of the House, that the Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2009 starts off in its provisions by prohibiting a person from being a member of both a local board and the governing board. They can be a candidate for both, but the governing body election has precedence if the person is elected to both. And here is the point of this bill, which is to tighten that loophole: currently, the legislation does not prohibit a person from being a member of more than one local board. So I think that is really important, and that is the intent of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EMembers will also see that there is Supplementary Order Paper 418, which is quite strange, because when a bill is entered in the ballot, it should actually contain all of the clauses that are important. But what actually happened is that there was an administrative error, and so when the bill went in, it was incorrect and did not have a clause that was important. Clause 6, which is actually in the Supplementary Order Paper, provides a savings clause in order to ensure that the existing membership of two or more local boards is not affected by the commencement of this bill. In other words, it could force a by-election. So that is why it is important that although the Supplementary Order Paper resulted from an administrative error, we think that it is important, however, that it should be included as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EOne of the things that are also important is that we know that this is a bill that has wide support, as I have canvassed and talked to some of the members of Parliament. It has support because it is important that it goes to the select committee. We know that it will go to the Local Government and Environment Committee, ably chaired by my colleague here, Scott Simpson. There, we will then be able to hear submissions and talk about what is important and how we can look at the bill\u2014whether there are clauses that potentially need to be changed or added. But I think that it is also a great opportunity to look at and to review parts of that bill. I know that on 20 October 2010 there was a media statement put out by Mr Phil Twyford. In that press release, in October of 2010, which was entitled \u201CLabour proposes amendment to close Flaunty loophole\u201D\u2014quite a sort of provocative title\u2014it really meant to talk about this loophole that is there. It states that the Labour Party will move an amendment to local government law to prevent local board members from sitting on more than one board in the Auckland super-city. Labour\u2019s spokesperson on Auckland issues, Phil Twyford, said that the case of west Auckland pharmacist Warren Flaunty sitting on five boards showed that there was a loophole, and that should be closed. So we know that there is support for this bill, especially for it to go to the select committee, for us then to be able to debate the issues that are important to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThis is not a bill that will save Auckland City; it is a bill that will actually address, I think, a concern that has been had. What is important is that the local body elections will then allow for a greater distribution for those to be representative on those local boards. We know it is a little unfair that people are in the situation where they are on two or more boards\u2014in some cases they have been on three or more. It does not allow for wider representation throughout the city. So we think that that is really important. Even today, in talking to David Seymour, the leader of the ACT Party, he said to me, and did question, whether this is something that we should be doing. Should we not just allow that where there is adequate information out there, that people can see when they look at a person who is representing them on the local board, and who maybe did not actually represent their concerns, that they were not doing a good enough job\u2014is that not enough? In our conversations, though, I did say that not only did we have challenges around participation in our general election but also we have noticed that there has been a decline in participation in the local bodies, especially in postal voting. There are challenges with participation, so in order for us to be able to ensure that we do not have a loophole where there is insufficient representation, we should act accordingly; hence the reason for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThis bill does remedy the loophole in the current legislation; we think that that is important. In the Local Electoral Act 2001, it states that it prohibits a person from being a member of both a community board and a territorial authority. They can be a candidate, but a council has precedence if they are elected to both. Further on down, it says that in more than one ward\u2014the same territorial authority\u2014or in more than one constituency of the same regional council, for a regional council, territorial authority, or community board within that region. However, and, again, here is the point: although this could mean that out of this they could have further conversation around potential amendments to the Local Electoral Act 2001, it does not prohibit a person being a member of more than one community board. So we believe that there are not only loopholes in Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2009 but also that, potentially, there could be other conversations around the Local Electoral Act 2001. This bill attempts to close that loophole and provide the opportunities that are really important for wider representation as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI am really fortunate that we have got a number of members in our caucus who have had senior representation. In fact, sitting right next to me is a previous mayor\u2014should I call you ex-mayor, or \u201CYour Worship\u201D?\u2014Jono Naylor, who was the Mayor of Palmerston North. He shared his experiences of the importance of representation on the local boards and community boards, and also on the council. I know that he is going to add a great amount of knowledge and wisdom to the debate as well. Also, further across, over here, is the honourable member and my colleague Nuk Korako, who stood in Christchurch, I think it was. He too has experience of wanting to stand and represent our communities on our local boards as well. We, and I, believe that this is a bill that is small in nature but provides us with the opportunity to have a conversation around some of the challenges with this loophole as well. This is a good bill and we look forward to the conversations as it heads to select committee. My understanding is that it will be supported across the House as it goes to select committee to hear submissions as well. I do commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u002213894dedf54f4411b11d7f175b0ac76f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213894dedf54f4411b11d7f175b0ac76f\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party will support this bill to a select committee. I was going to be quite critical of the member who produced this bill, Alfred Ngaro, but I now understand it was not his bill, that he did not draft this bill, and that it was actually Maggie Barry who drafted this bill. The right place for this bill to be considered, really, is at the select committee. There, I think, we will really delve into the substance of this bill and whether there was wide-ranging support for it. The reason why I say that is, firstly, we have a bill that we are debating tonight that amends the Government legislation of 2009, and contained in the presentation tonight is another Supplementary Order Paper\u2014Supplementary Order Paper 418\u2014in the name of the same member who drafted the original bill, Maggie Barry, and that Supplementary Order Paper is amending this bill. That is a signal that does not really sit well with the public, so when the Government member says that this is a good bill, that is yet to be seen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ESo we would like this to go to a select committee and we would like to hear from, particularly, those members who are in this situation where they are serving two or more local bodies, because it is not their fault. The legislation that was passed by this Government allowed for that. The rules simply state that they have to be elected by the electors of that ward or of that area. That is really it. So it is not their fault. I am pleased that the member who drafted this bill actually has got a Supplementary Order Paper saying that this will not affect those members who are currently in that situation, because that gives some confidence to them while the House deliberates on this particular bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe explanatory note suggests that this will help resolve the potential conflicts of interest. The reality is that in politics\u2014whether it be central or local government\u2014there are bound to be conflicts of interests. It is my hope that we have existing systems in place\u2014in central and local government\u2014that will ensure that when there are potential conflicts of interest that do arise, perceived or otherwise, those systems in place will help address those conflicts of interest. So I would like to hear from the local government sector, and particularly also Auckland Council and those members, whether it is in fact the case that they cannot deal with their conflicts of interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe other point that the explanatory note makes is that this is going to somehow resolve the problem of double-dipping. I do not know why we are pointing the finger at the local board members in the Auckland region. There are members in the House who at various times have been in local government and who could be accused of double-dipping\u2014holding a position in a council and holding the position also of a member of Parliament. But there is also the instance where a person could be on the local board and serve on the district health board at the same time or be a councillor and serve on the district health board at the same time, yet if a candidate stood for a local board and the council and they won both, they must choose one. They cannot hold both positions. So we would be interested to hear in the select committee just how widespread this situation is. I accept that this bill is focused on the Auckland Council, but I would be interested to hear from the New Zealand local government sector whether this is a widespread situation across New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ESo those are really the points that we would like to make at this stage. We look forward to the select committee process. Again I say that I would hope that the local government sector comes forward, I would hope that the candidates who find themselves in this position come forward, and I would hope that those in similar situations outside of the Auckland boundaries also come forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI have a concern about what gave germination to this bill, because I note that Maggie Barry released a press statement last year accusing Mr Paul Gillon\u2014[Interruption] Grant, sorry\u2014Grant Gillon of holding two roles. The reality is that he had every right to stand in those two positions. The legislation that this Government passed in 2009 allowed for it. I look forward to the discussion and I look forward to the public coming forward and making their points heard on this particular bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00226b61ea4907304edebc77f7998c0cb01b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b61ea4907304edebc77f7998c0cb01b\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E As chairman of the Local Government and Environment Committee, I am encouraged to hear that the Labour Party is going to support this Local Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Bill (No 3) to select committee. I think that is a practical and useful contribution to a debate that I think is an important one. The member who was previously speaking, Su\u2019a William Sio, was perfectly correct; when the legislation was originally created for the new Auckland City structure a situation such as now exists was perfectly able to occur, and, indeed, it has occurred, where there are several people who hold multiple roles in various local boards. This bill seeks to question the legitimacy or the substance of that occurring, for the benefit of the wider democracy in terms of the governance model of a city like Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI think that the select committee is exactly the right place to tease out these questions\u2014to tease out the issues that have been raised by my friend and colleague Alfred Ngaro in his sponsorship of this bill, notwithstanding that, in fact, he has taken the bill over from Maggie Barry, who, of course, now has ministerial responsibilities and is no longer eligible to promote a member\u2019s bill. I want to thank and congratulate Alfred Ngaro on stepping up to the plate and on taking on this bill and now having it in his name. I am confident that he will be a very staunch advocate for the bill and that he will guide it through the select committee process in terms of submissions and process in a very thorough and professional way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo what does this bill, essentially, seek to achieve? Well, it seeks to create a situation where the fairness in the local government electoral process can be enhanced by preventing candidates from serving on more than one local board at the same time. Local boards are a relatively new creation in the local government model, and they were developed specifically during the set-up and creation of the new Auckland Council structure several years ago. They are quite a different beast from community boards. In terms of their constitutional role, in terms of their governance role, and in terms of their financial accountabilities and delegations, they have a role to play that is set somewhere between the governing body itself and that role of the former community boards. They are, I think, a more robust creature of statute than previously existed, so it is very important for the success of the entire model that local boards operate with credibility and that they operate in a way that the public feels is credible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EOne of the sad aspects of our local government system is that, for reasons that are multiple, turnout is often very low in local government elections. It is much lower than most members of this House would like, and I am sure it is much lower than most participants in local government would like, as well. That occurs for, as I say, a variety of reasons, which I am not going to go into tonight, but it is clear and obvious that in some communities candidates have, for whatever reason\u2014it might be professional, it might be because of their previous sporting achievements, it might be because they have a role in some celebrity status, or a range of reasons\u2014higher name profile and name recognition than others. One of the aspects that I find frustrating in our local government system is that often when people go to vote they literally do not know whom they are voting for. There is often, I think, a natural assumption that people with high name recognition and a high profile are therefore proportionally more likely, in some cases, to be elected. That creates this opportunity for people who have that profile to stand in multiple constituencies and then be elected to multiple constituencies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIn my view, I want to have a better understanding of the impact of that. Does it have a negative impact? Does it affect the credibility of the local boards; if so, how? If it does, is this the best way to address it? I am confident that we will get lots of submissions at the select committee. I am looking forward to the process. I know that Alfred Ngaro will be a staunch and firm advocate for this bill, and I wish him well as it proceeds through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdce57fff7314e4d85ada6438c317b09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdce57fff7314e4d85ada6438c317b09\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a short call\u2014and it will be short\u2014on the Local Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Bill (No 3). The Green Party will be supporting this bill. It is a small and uncontroversial bill that prevents someone serving on more than one local board in Auckland at a time. The Supplementary Order Paper ensures that it does not affect any board members who are currently on more than one board, and I understand that there are four people in that position, each of them on two boards. I do not expect that there will be a lot of submissions. I think it is a useful bill because it ensures that people are fully engaged with one board, rather than spreading time and effort over several, and we will be supporting it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022 data-id=\u0022c330903760c5450f896c194916bcbe6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c330903760c5450f896c194916bcbe6d\u0022\u003EPAUL FOSTER-BELL (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to rise and take a call on this, the Local Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Bill (No 3), which is in the name of my respected and learned colleague Alfred Ngaro, the list MP and probable future constituency MP for the fine electorate of Te Atat\u016B in Auckland. Mr Ngaro is a very hard-working member, and he has done very well to pick up this bill, which was originally entered into the members\u2019 ballot in the name of the Hon Maggie Barry, another very fine member of this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022\u003EThis bill may be small but it is perfectly formed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea9d572a1edf46eea8abc35597d95462\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: A bit like Ron Mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d25348ce72b4c93a99e83eb3841f6b0\u0022\u003EPAUL FOSTER-BELL\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very uncharitable suggestion from my colleague Mr Doocey. But I think, really, the nub of it comes down to clause 5, subclause (2), where the bill is very clear that a member \u201Cmust not serve as a member on 2 or more local boards at the same time.\u201D This could be characterised as the anti - double-dipping bill. I would, as a Wellington list MP, query whether it might be useful to prevent such double-dipping throughout the country, including here in the Wellington region, where we do have local community boards as well as the councils and the regional council. Actually, there is a particular pertinence to Auckland with the Auckland super-city. This is not so much about the issue of people having multiple jobs within local government\u2014and there would be nothing preventing someone standing for both a local board plus then the Auckland super-city itself\u2014but this is more a question of conflicts of interest. As constituency MPs, members in this House cannot represent the interests\u2014often competing and sometimes contradictory interests\u2014of more than one constituency. For that reason, I think it is very proper and right that members of local boards should champion and prioritise the interests of one board that they are elected to represent, rather than trying to juggle those competing interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022\u003EAnother point that I would make is that with the complexity of the electoral process in some areas\u2014and here in Wellington we have the single transferable vote system\u2014if you have dozens of candidates in a district health board election, for instance, you will end up having literally 100 pages of candidates\u2019 biographies to read through when that booklet gets posted through your letterbox. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022\u003ESo one could say it is up to the electors and the ratepayers to make a decision as to whether they are happy with having a candidate represent them who is also representing another community with possibly diverse and competing interests, but actually the reality is that as intelligent as the voters of this country are\u2014and I have great respect for the judgment of the electors of Wellington and of Auckland, and, in fact, of all New Zealand electors\u2014the sheer volume of material that they may be expected to read and the fact that they may not necessarily look through and see who the candidates are for other wards, other local bodies, other local councils, or other community boards within their region means that they may not be as fully informed as they could be and they may not be able to make that well-informed judgment as to whether they want someone who is also representing another area to represent them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207d42dbe-f05a-4a7a-8c23-0eecc14b72aa\u0022\u003ESo for these reasons, I think this is a very good bill. It does come to the heart of democracy in New Zealand. I congratulate the sponsoring member, Alfred Ngaro, and also the Hon Maggie Barry on having formulated it in the first place. As a member of the Local Government and Environment Committee, I do look forward to hearing submissions on this. I wonder whether any of the four particular individuals who are affected by this piece of legislation will be fronting up to the select committee to explain why they think this is not a good idea. I think it is a wonderful idea, and I am sure that it will have the widespread support of the voting public in Auckland, members of this House, and other interested people who have an interest in democracy in New Zealand. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022013b784ec504401988740cb6a4a85fb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022013b784ec504401988740cb6a4a85fb5\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Sometimes some of my colleagues on the Local Government and Environment Committee make it difficult for me, because whereas you would like to stand up and give a bit of a rousing speech and rip into it, they are actually good people, and it is a little disarming sometimes. So I am going to start by saying that I appreciated the speech by Paul Foster-Bell, and I concur with many of his comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe first point is to say to Alfred Ngaro that we in New Zealand First will be supporting this bill. I probably would like to backtrack a tad and pick up on a comment made by the chair of our select committee, Scott Simpson, who said that the decision to send this bill to the select committee is a practical and useful one. I absolutely agree, and New Zealand First would applaud him. The pity is that the Government did not have the same view on the legislation that we have just debated, the SuperGold Health Check Bill. How we can go from one irrational decision that showed no logic and was completely lacking in heart, we would argue, to then arguing on pure logic that this is the very reason we should send this bill to the select committee actually befuddles and bemuses me somewhat. But it is no worry\u2014we have the video taped. We will play those ad nauseam in certain MPs\u2019 electorates on the campaign trail, and we will let the people be the judge, which leads me to my next point in respect of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWe had some discussion over this bill, and it would be fair to say that there were as many pros for this bill as there were cons. One of the cons for this bill is that it actually interdicts, impedes, and negates the will of the voters. It actually undermines democracy. You see, at the end of the day the voters may not necessarily do what we think they should. We may question their logic and their argument, but at the end of the day the voters have the vote and their vote stands supreme in the decision that they make, and they make that decision to elect a person to one or two boards because they think that is a smart thing to do. For us to pass a piece of legislation that says \u201CThou shalt not have the same member representing two different bills\u201D actually undermines the very principles and the basis and the fundamentals of democratic choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIt is interesting also because I have had some experience in local government, and I consider myself to be the better for having that experience in local government before coming back to the House. So I am well aware that there are times when voters elect people because\u2014and the argument has just been put up by the previous speakers from the Government\u2014they know them more by name and face than they do by deed or skill. Well, right or wrong, that is what the voters do. They have every right to do that. We have some people whose inability to get elected we lament because we know them personally, we know their skill sets, and we know their experience levels, be it in business or in the social community, doing good work amongst our people, but their name recognition is not high. So amongst the plethora of candidates, they do not stand a dog\u2019s chance. That is sad, but it is the reality of the way the democratic process works, and who are we to challenge the voters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIn terms of the pros, we see that it does remove potential for a conflict of interest. That is an issue that has been seriously championed by certain members of the public, and we would welcome the opportunity to have those views expressed at the select committee. We would come back, I think, to the view that at the end of the day the choice as to who represents people is made by people who vote. So let us have this discussion at the select committee, let us hear the submissions, let us hear the pros and the cons, and let us collectively as a committee make the right decision and a wise choice. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4ac1192705e4fcab4b8ff242f50887b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4ac1192705e4fcab4b8ff242f50887b\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. Can I first of all, Mr Deputy Speaker, mihi to your constituents. I know that it has been very trying over the last few days with that terrible flooding, so kia ora. I also want to speak on this bill, the Local Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Bill (No 3). It is interesting, actually, coming from \u014Ctautahi, Christchurch, to be able to really get excited about the fact that I will have, as a member of the Local Government and Environment Committee, an opportunity to be part of looking at something that needs to be rejigged in some way around the Auckland super-city and Auckland Council. It is interesting because I want to tautoko and support my colleague Paul Foster-Bell in his sterling and stirring support of the sponsor of this bill, one Alfred Ngaro. I also acknowledge the previous speaker the former Mayor of Carterton, Mr Ron Mark, a member of the Local Government and Environment Committee. When you look at these two members, they are very small in stature but what we say is \u201CHe iti, he pounamu\u201D\u2014they are small but they are pounamu. They contribute to this, particularly Mr Alfred Ngaro. I know that he will sponsor this bill. I have watched him on the rugby field, the way that he will weave and get through, and he will get this bill to the end, where it is going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EWhen we look at it, I think we actually have both sides of the House going to support this bill. It is interesting that when Mr Ngaro was introducing this bill, he also mentioned the fact that I was involved in local government elections. I did not make it; I could not get off five votes. But at least I was involved. I could not get off the five votes because I was short of five votes, we were in a grey area, and we were waiting on special votes, so I was actually part of the Christchurch City Council for a while as they waited for the five special votes to come in. So, anyway, it did not happen, but the next part led me to this House. The interesting thing is that we call it double-dipping. My first foray into politics was into iwi politics, and if you can survive that you can survive anything. I think the situation there is exactly this. A lot of that is based on finding people who actually want to do it, finding people who actually have the skills, and it is not double-dipping, I believe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EWe all know people who serve on more than one board at the same time, and a number of us here in this House, I believe, will know that they have actually done that. Most of us have multiple interests, and we all have committed at one time or another to being involved in our communities. Some of us have volunteered in ways that whet our interests, though, to our desires to make a better place in which to live and play. So that immediately brings me to the fact that we do actually want to be involved in everything. Looking at this I know it is about local boards. I thought it was community boards, but now I have learnt that it is local boards that we are talking about here in Auckland. I do not think it is double-dipping. I am looking forward, because as Su\u2019a William Sio said, it is very healthy that we actually process this though the procedures of Parliament, take the bill to the select committee, and look at it. I hope we do get a number of submissions. It will be really interesting to hear what people think about this. So kia ora, and I really do look forward to receiving this bill at the select committee. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u0022af69c1ca7c014bc7b04609b8bed4c9fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af69c1ca7c014bc7b04609b8bed4c9fe\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker. I too want to pay my respects to you and the communities in Whanganui who have been devastated by the floods, and send our aroha from right across Aotearoa, actually. Some of the images have been quite distressing, so I acknowledge that you have had to deal with that at this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EIt is my pleasure to speak on the Local Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Bill (No 3). I would like to acknowledge the Hon Maggie Barry, whose bill this initially was. It has now been transferred to Alfred Ngaro, and it seems to me that there are three main issues or problems that this piece of legislation is trying to correct or fix. The first is about conflict of interest. The proposition is that if you serve on multiple boards then you have a conflict of interest, because supposedly the communities you are serving may have different needs and so you are pulled in all sorts of directions because you cannot reconcile the priorities of those two communities. I just want to put on record that a conflict of interest is actually \u201Ca situation in which a person is in a position to derive personal benefit from actions or decisions made in their official capacity.\u201D So if you are torn in a whole lot of different parts\u2014which actually we are a number of times in this House, because we end up debating and discussing particular pieces of legislation that some members of our communities support and others do not\u2014I guess we have to use our judgment in determining where we sit on that spectrum. So dealing with conflict of interest is actually an inherent responsibility and role as a member of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe second issue that this bill seeks to rectify\u2014actually, I will quote Minister Barry from a press release I have seen: \u201CThis has allowed local board power to be concentrated in the hands of a few people, many of whom don\u2019t even live in the area they represent.\u201D So I guess that a fundamental question this legislation is proposing is whether you should live in the area you represent. It is an interesting proposition. I am sure that there are a number of members of Parliament who actually do not physically live in the electorate they represent, for a number of reasons. I am sure my former colleague Lynne Pillay will not mind if I say that she did live in the Waitakere electorate, but the boundaries changed after the census. So sometimes people do not actually end up living in their electorate, but they have a huge relationship, commitment, history\u2014but that seems to be one of the issues that this piece of legislation is trying to deal with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI guess the third issue, which I find really fascinating, is this whole issue about double-dipping. So if you are a member of one local board and another local board, and you collect two salaries because you represent that local board and that local board, somehow there is a problem with that. What I want to highlight, actually, is an Auckland Council document dated 13 May 2013. It is titled Step forward for Auckland: Becoming an elected member. The interesting thing about this booklet is that it anticipates how much commitment a member of the local board should anticipate giving per week. If you are a chair, it says that you will end up working 40 hours a week, and if you are a local board member, you should anticipate working between 15 and 25 hours a week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo if you serve on two local boards and you are anticipated to work between 15 and 25 hours a week, actually, that is between 30 and 50 hours per week. Is that unmanageable, I guess, as a concept? Is that type of workload unmanageable? Because actually what this bill says in clause 5(2)(c) is \u201Cmust not serve as a member on 2 or more local boards at the same time.\u201D What about being a chair? It does not mention anything about not being a chair. The reason I bring it up is that, actually, I think having that responsibility of a 40-hour week position actually might challenge your ability to do a good job, if you are on two different boards. But if you are a member of a local board who is on two local boards, is working between 30 and 50 hours actually an unmanageable workload? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo that is my short contribution to this debate. I will reiterate that we are supporting this bill to the select committee. I look forward to reading the select committee report on this piece of legislation, actually, and whether or not this is sufficient, because maybe there will be some other Supplementary Order Papers that the select committee recommends. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022add9eff35cc74d518bdf63e416c968c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022add9eff35cc74d518bdf63e416c968c9\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure tonight to rise and speak to Alfred Ngaro\u2019s member\u2019s bill, the Local Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Bill (No 3). I suppose, as a new MP, I congratulate Mr Ngaro who has had this bill in his name selected. I wish Alfred Ngaro all the best with that. Most people would know that member of Parliament as someone who is committed to the communities he works in. People would know that Alfred Ngaro is committed to Auckland. So it is great to see that he is bringing a bill that is relevant to the people of his communities. Can I also mention that I am looking forward to this bill being sent to the Local Government and Environment Committee, a committee I am on, which is very ably led by the chair, Scott Simpson, and the deputy chair, Todd Muller\u2014very much becoming the top guns of the legislative process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI had a read around this bill. Although very short and simple, the purpose is around amending the Local Government (Auckland Council) Act to prevent candidates from serving on multiple local boards at the same time. It makes sense, if I could run you through a situation. Imagine being at one local board and having\u2014say we use Alfred Ngaro as an example\u2014Alfred Ngaro on the local board, then you go to the other local board and there is Alfred Ngaro sitting there again, and then you go to the other local board and then there is Alfred Ngaro. I mean, really, it is going to be a bit confusing. So I can understand why this bill is being brought in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI do not have much experience of local boards in Auckland, but I do wonder when we move through the submission process whether we are going to look at how we expand it out to community boards. Community boards are very big in my electorate of Waimakariri. We have the Kaiapoi and Rangiora community boards and, of course, in Canterbury\u2014because 1989 was a great year for democracy: the Europeans were bringing down the Berlin Wall and New Zealand was setting up community boards. There is a big movement to empower community boards greatly. What they are saying is that as councils get more and more workload, they can devolve to community boards, which can pick up some of that important grassroots work. You could imagine that as the devolution to community boards happens, there is more work, increased workloads, and it is quite right to ask how someone seriously could manage the workload of operating both on a local board and on a community board. So I am looking forward to this bill going through the legislative process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned around the community boards, I just want to acknowledge the real role community boards play in local communities. In my electorate I think we quite often forget\u2014we call them the Christchurch earthquakes but, in fact, they were the Canterbury earthquakes, and my electorate, Kaiapoi, was the most hard-hit area in the first earthquake in September 2010, having a very large red zone like in Christchurch. Kaiapoi Community Board, led by the very able chair, Robyn Wallace, played a very leading role in the recovery and still does, and it was great that she was acknowledged for this work by cutting the ribbon of the newly opened Ruataniwha Kaiapoi Civic Centre, which consists of a new museum, an art space, a library, and the council\u2019s civic service centre. Very much that building represents the beacon of the recovery, and it is really setting a direction forward for the community. So I would like to acknowledge her and her eight members on the community board. I visited them last Monday. They are doing a big piece of work around the Earthquake Commission and increased risks of flooding in those hard-hit earthquake areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo, overall, I would like to fully support this bill. I am very much looking forward to it going through the legislative process. Once again, I would like to thank Alfred Ngaro for bringing this very real issue to the House. I support the bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00220c143ccebb3a44328c20e2740fb19877\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c143ccebb3a44328c20e2740fb19877\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E There has been considerable debate this evening on this bill, which has just one operative clause. I do not want to delay its passage unnecessarily, just suffice to say that it is difficult to tell exactly where the public outcry was that generated this legislation. As best as I can tell, it actually represents a personal vendetta by Maggie Barry against a fellow North Shore politician. Nevertheless, the content is perfectly sound. Let us get on with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00228cbac80939df474588aa1847345d37f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cbac80939df474588aa1847345d37f5\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is an honour just to round off the debate and also the speeches in the House. I would like to respond though that the Hon Maggie Barry was actually addressing an issue that had existed for quite some time, so it was not a bit of a stoush with another local ward member or chair over on the North Shore. In fact, this had been in existence for some time and, as I said, there was a press release by Phil Twyford in 2010, so this is a long-held issue of concern that has been going on for some time. So I think I just want to acknowledge that first of all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EOne of things that I think is going to be important as we head to the select committee is also the wealth of experience, and I can speak only for those who are on our side, that Jamie-Lee Ross, my colleague over here\u2014I will not say how old he was, but he was one of the youngest members on the Manukau City Council. He served ably on the Manukau City Council for 6 years. [Interruption] That is right, he did say he was shaving at that time\u2014apparently\u2014with a butter knife, but it was a shave. He spent half a year with the Auckland Council prior to coming into Parliament as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThere is also my colleague over here, Jono Naylor, who was a councillor for 6 years in Palmerston North and then became the Mayor of Palmerston North for 7 years as well. Our good friend Ian McKelvie, who was the Mayor of Manawat\u016B District for, some say, 100 years, but no, it was only 6 years. He was the Mayor of Manawat\u016B District for some 6 years and very ably led over there. Jacqui Dean was the Deputy Mayor of Waitaki District, I think it was, and, again, has a wealth of experience. The Hon Anne Tolley too was also a councillor for Napier; and then there is also the Hon Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, who was also on the Auckland Council and he was the councillor for T\u0101maki-Maungakiekie as well. And, also, who could forget the Hon Paul Goldsmith, who served on the Auckland Council and, in fact, he was the chairperson for the community services committee\u2014he did a great job on community services. He showed lots of empathy for the communities Auckland-wide. I mention the experiences of my colleagues because I truly do believe that that is a wealth of experience that will be added to this bill, and to me that is going to be quite significant and quite important as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EWe do look forward to the submissions that will come forward. I do think that what has been raised too is the potential under the local government legislation in 2001\u2014and my colleague Mr Matt Doocey talked about community boards\u2014where there are potentially situations there for some discussion and some conversation around those. I know that Mr Sio also talked about that opportunity as well. So we are looking forward to the discussion and, yes, there could be more Supplementary Order Papers in there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI just want to again remind members that there was some comment about the bill being a bit sloppy with regard to Supplementary Order Paper 418. It was an administrative error that had happened. So in the Supplementary Order Paper, where it has clause 6, this is just to ensure that at the commencement of this bill we are not going to have a series of by-elections up and down the country, and I think that is really important as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThere is not much more to say, but I just say that we look forward to the ably chaired Local Government and Environment Committee process. We do hope that there will be\u2014I know that in the Greens\u2019 speech that there was a thought that there would not be many submissions, but I think what it will do is again begin to answer questions around the Auckland Council. I do know that there has been wide conversation and concern at times around, I suppose, how effective the Auckland Council has been in the engaging of seven territorial authorities to come together. Although we have said that there have been some savings, there could be some concern as a whole as to whether the leadership of that council has actually continued to pay dividends and make a difference. I think it is not a judgment call, but it is a challenge, I know, that is there as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI look forward to this bill going to the select committee. I look forward to sitting in the select committee, to hearing the submissions, and I look forward to the bill returning back to the House with the hope that there will be widespread support across the House for this bill too as it comes back and, hopefully, it will gain the Royal assent and then be enacted into law as well. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Local Government and Environment Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b52462d7056d448084328a3f6b73a7b2\u0022\u003EEnvironmental Protection Authority (Protection of Environment) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227bb0f72828254cb0bb85da9631e625dc\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u00226100ffb653e54b35b745e8c0d5df0571\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226100ffb653e54b35b745e8c0d5df0571\u0022\u003EMEKA WHAITIRI (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. E ng\u0101 mema o te Whare nei, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. I move, That the Environmental Protection Authority (Protection of Environment) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Local Government and Environment Committee to consider the bill. I am pleased to have the opportunity to introduce the Environmental Protection Authority (Protection of Environment) Amendment Bill and I recommend that the House refers my bill to the select committee for further debate. This bill amends the Environmental Protection Authority Act 2011 by adding the additional objective that the organisation must aim to protect, maintain, and enhance New Zealand\u2019s environment. When the Act was passed, the stated objective of the Environmental Protection Authority contained an important oversight, in that it did not actually require the protection of the environment as part of the authority\u2019s role. This bill aims to correct that defect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does is place the protection of New Zealand\u2019s precious natural environment right at the heart of the law governing the Environmental Protection Authority. This bill does this by cementing in legislation the Environmental Protection Authority\u2019s role in protecting the environment by amending section 12(1) by inserting the following paragraph: \u201C(c) protects, maintains, and enhances New Zealand\u2019s environment.\u201D\u2014seven small words, but very, very important words. This bill is especially important in light of media reports this morning saying that staff at the Environmental Protection Authority are struggling to determine what the mission of the organisation is. Whom are they accountable to\u2014the Minister or the public? We do not want a situation in the future where short-term economic thinking is allowed to impinge on the Environmental Protection Authority\u2019s function because the agency\u2019s mission is legally unclear. This bill will help make the Environmental Protection Authority a better-performing organisation by giving it a clear, well-articulated mission placing environmental protection at the core of everything it does. There is no ambiguity, no confusion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIt is an honour to have one\u2019s member\u2019s bill drawn from the ballot. I believe that members who bring members\u2019 bills to the House do so with the utmost honourable intention: to address often very important issues, and we strive for clarity and practicality in our bills. For this bill, the words \u201Cprotects, maintains, and enhances New Zealand\u2019s environment.\u201D are not only very clear but they are also very practical. I hope this fact is not lost on members across the House. This is an uncontroversial bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s beautiful natural environment is a fundamental part of our natural identity. As a proud member of Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti, I, like many of my people, introduce myself by my maunga, my mountain; my awa, my river; my hap\u016B, my subtribe; my iwi, my tribe; and my waka, which connects tribes to other tribes, but, more important, it connects M\u0101ori to our Pacific relations. This is a priceless inheritance we receive from our t\u012Bpuna, our ancestors before us, and we have a responsibility to leave it to our children and grandchildren. My maunga, my awa, my iwi, and my waka is me, and I am them. Their protection and preservation are my duty. Their protection and preservation are my responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EOur environment is also one of our biggest natural advantages as a country. Our \u201C100% Pure\u201D green image is a boon to our exporters and our tourist industry. But if we do not protect it, we will lose culturally, socially, and economically. We hear often from my colleagues across the House that it is about choice. You can have a thriving economy or you can have a clean environment. In Labour we firmly believe in the balanced approach: a thriving economy from a protected environment. We believe, as Gaylord Nelson once said, that \u201CThe economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment, not the other way around.\u201D As the Government agency responsible for regulatory management of New Zealand\u2019s environment, the Environmental Protection Authority is a vital part of protecting our environment for future generations. The omission in the regulations around the Environmental Protection Authority of protecting the environment is not spelt out in legislation. This bill aims to fix that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIf we want to protect our environment for the future, we must ensure its legislative safeguards are long-lasting. We have seen just today how a lack of statutory clarity can create problems when multiple internal reviews at the Environmental Protection Authority can lead to confusion over the agency\u2019s mission, as we heard on Morning Report today. My bill is a sensible reform that unambiguously has the explicit objective of protecting, maintaining, and enhancing New Zealand\u2019s environment\u2014seven very small but important words. It will end the confusion of the Environmental Protection Authority and ensure better protection of our environment. This bill will offer more consistency across New Zealand\u2019s environmental legislation, as stated under section 6 of the Resource Management Act, which requires all persons exercising powers under it to recognise and provide for the preservation and protection of various aspects of New Zealand\u2019s environment. To ensure consistency across New Zealand\u2019s large marine environment, it is sensible to make this change to the Environmental Protection Authority Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIf opponents of this bill have drafting concerns, the select committee will provide an opportunity to discuss the best approach to inserting a reference to protect the environment in this Act. It will allow for expert evidence to be presented and for a full discussion of how we maximise the protection we give our environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIn closing, this bill is very clear. It is very consistent with other legislation and it makes good sense. I commend this bill to the House. I ask that the House support it to select committee and helps us to take steps to give our beautiful natural environment the protection that it deserves in the years to come. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddfbe1e277084cb1b658778e3449e0d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddfbe1e277084cb1b658778e3449e0d5\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in this first reading debate on the Environmental Protection Authority (Protection of Environment) Amendment Bill in the name of Meka Whaitiri. I want at the outset to congratulate the member. It is always an honour, I think, to have a member\u2019s bill drawn from the ballot. It is literally a lottery, so, therefore, not only is it an honour but it involves a degree of luck and good fortune, as well. Although this is a piece of good fortune that has befallen that member, the bill itself is one that I do have some problems with. I want to spend just a few minutes speaking to those issues and questions that I have with the bill, as it is proposed by Meka Whaitiri, and on where I think some of the issues are that would prevent me and the National Party from supporting it in its current form. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe addition of extra objectives into the principal Act is, in my view, completely unnecessary. The reason for that is simply that the principal Act sets up and creates the Environmental Protection Authority. This is an authority that was created during the first term of this National Government, which was done with the purpose of providing an operational organisation that would ensure that arm\u2019s-length policy would be determined separately from the politicisation of us mere politicians. I contend, in fact, that if this bill were to be passed by the House, the inclusion of the seven small words that the sponsoring member has at the basis and the heart of this bill would actually be detrimental and would achieve a negative result, and the exact reverse result of the one that she is seeking to achieve. I think that that, of itself, is a fatal flaw in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe Environmental Protection Authority was set up, as I said, to be an arm\u2019s-length operational entity. It is my view that this amendment has the potential to turn the agency and impinge upon its operational integrity and independence. I do not think that that ultimately serves the objectives that the member is seeking to achieve in terms of the amendment to the principal Act that she is proposing in this bill. The operational independence and credibility of the Environmental Protection Authority is at the very heart of that legislation. It is at the very heart of what it was designed to do. It was established precisely so that the difficult decisions could be taken independently and without the involvement of us mere politicians. Policy agencies operate best when there is less dependence on direction of that sort, and the Environmental Protection Authority, in my view, absolutely does not need to move in that direction. That would be, without doubt, I think, the potential impact if this bill were to proceed through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe amendment that is being proposed would have a significant impact on the way that the Environmental Protection Authority carries out the existing functions that it is tasked to achieve. I note that there has been media commentary, which the member spoke about, in this morning\u2019s media. I am not aware of that; I choose to listen to far more uplifting and enlightening morning radio than the member does, so I missed the commentary this morning. But I suspect, without having heard that media commentary, that if there are questions from staff members as to their role and the function that they have or that the agency that employs them has, then that is essentially an employment matter, and one that I think that the chief executive of the organisation should properly address. The principal Act defines the role of the Environmental Protection Authority in very clear and precise terms. That role, in my view, is completely unequivocal, and a role and a function that is understood, I think, by the vast majority of people who come into contact with the agency, the vast majority of its employees, and its senior management team. That there may be some employees who are confused about their role I think, of itself, is not a good reason to muck around with the objective provisions of the legislation and amend the principal Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThere are functions to provide the assurances and the goals that the member seeks to achieve in this bill in other pieces of legislation. That is the way that the legislation has been particularly constructed. That is the way that it has been formatted: so that there are other pieces of legislation, such as the Resource Management Act and the Climate Change Response Act, for example, which provide exactly the kind of definitional functionality that the member is seeking from this bill. I am not arguing that the objectives that she is seeking are wrong or invalid; this is just the wrong place for them. Those objectives are well covered in other pieces of legislation that have been designed specifically for that purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EAlthough there is not a proposal to add any additional functions into section 13 of the Environmental Protection Authority Act 2011, this amendment, as it is being proposed, would still significantly, in my view, affect the way that the Environmental Protection Authority carries out its existing statutory functions and obligations. The Government set this organisation up as part of its first-phase Resource Management Act reforms, and the principal legislation was passed back in 2011. As members will know very clearly, it is the plan and proposal of the Government to introduce second-phase Resource Management Act reforms later this year. I know that the Minister for the Environment, the Hon Nick Smith, is working diligently and hard to achieve that, and as we speak, I suspect, is working hard to seek cross-party support for the much-needed Resource Management Act phase two reforms, which will make that piece of legislation, which is the cornerstone piece of legislation in this area, a more functional and worthwhile piece of law that will provide much of the confidence and support that our environment needs going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EAs I said, the amendment, as it is being suggested by Meka Whaitiri, would, in my view, change the very purpose of the Environmental Protection Authority. It would change it in a way that goes well beyond the original purposes of the principal Act, and the bill does nothing to actually enhance the work of the agency. In fact, in my view, it has potential to detract from and, actually, diminish the work of the agency. It has the potential to, effectively, undermine the operational effectiveness of the agency. The result of this amendment bill could actually be that the Environmental Protection Authority is required to apply a whole new set of tests to its functionality, and that would translate to a whole range of new duties, a whole definitional new menu of objectives that, in fact, would detract from the effectiveness of the agency in its current form. I do not think that that necessarily provides any net benefit in terms of protection to our environment or the measurement of our environmental standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI do have clear difficulties with this bill. It is well intentioned, I know. I think the member is well intentioned; I think she brings to the House a piece of legislation that is thoughtful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2015062433f98195c885473f9c78baee5f920007000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"