"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002269d30641f6724854b0cb21b5132853a4\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 11 AUGUST 2015\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f66d1536b0d94727b0e338dcdae2eabd\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 11 AUGUST 2015\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4e011d7b9504e07b08cbc5697063ac8\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225e1af22d350647e788cdd6d8e076d6fa\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002222700fbcd86442d9b47ff830b3e73b0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222700fbcd86442d9b47ff830b3e73b0c\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Pursuant to Standing Order 56(1)(a), I move, That the business for the extended sitting of the House to be held from 9 a.m. on Wednesday, 12 August 2015, as agreed by the Business Committee, also include the Committee stage and third reading of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Planning Committee Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022578ced45cb21461b860f6f73a571969d\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022050c5e7365774199978c192ed507ea31\u0022\u003ELeave for Introduction and First Reading\u2014Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Extended licensing hours during Rugby World Cup) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00225cdd33d5fc8c466ab37ad1a6b4fce629\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cdd33d5fc8c466ab37ad1a6b4fce629\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to introduce a member\u2019s bill, in my name, on extending the licensing hours for the sale and supply of alcohol for the duration of Rugby World Cup 2015, to be set down for first reading tomorrow as members\u2019 order of the day No. 1. To allow the legislation to commence prior to the start of the Rugby World Cup, I also seek leave for the bill, following its first reading, to be referred to the Justice and Electoral Committee for 2 weeks and for the bill, once it is reported back, to be given its second and third readings forthwith on the following members\u2019 day, 26 August 2015. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c608a46d2a334ea2ac0e067eae9851e1\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253d5016db667452cb765bf1a3300eb8f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is it to do with this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227348bb18548a46f4afde272d60d611a7\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbef6b27e2644439b4fbfb64723d88fb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Then I will hear the point of order from Ron Mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00226b373fad7cf24b548d1e9786ee252139\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b373fad7cf24b548d1e9786ee252139\u0022\u003ERON MARK (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Could we ask that the member consider putting this proposal forward tomorrow?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002277e26ca802f646f48987c4992b963d39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277e26ca802f646f48987c4992b963d39\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member is seeking leave. The member Ron Mark knows what to do. Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is. [Interruption] Order! There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002253486b484def483bbad61d35db6d4657\u0022\u003EOral Questions \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee035cf52cf04d8f981ffbf71224e7fc\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002287ad7ad5d79f44849886f9ebeebb138a\u0022\u003ETrade Agreements\u2014Saudi Agri-hub\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00221dad76e8dc4144f0a810f8e7fe05cee9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221dad76e8dc4144f0a810f8e7fe05cee9\u0022\u003ERON MARK (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Primary Industries: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022b06c2485302f4fa88c87057f86de6ee4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b06c2485302f4fa88c87057f86de6ee4\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. In particular, I stand by my statement that although dairy prices are experiencing some short-term volatility, the medium to long term outlook for the sector is still very positive indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022482f91f3cc9545cebb4c8adfe98e6c32\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of his statements around the Saudi farm issue, can he explain why his predecessor and the then Minister for Primary Industries, the Rt Hon David Carter, met with Mr George Assaf of Awassi New Zealand Ltd on 21 January 2009?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022280d58e7011b4f3a9180f054991fc27c\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: I am unfamiliar with what details and discussions were had between those various parties at that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed14e3ad4e50470c9230d7e5a4d3f65e\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Minister telling the House that he has no idea whatsoever as to what was so important that Minister Carter had to meet with Mr George Assaf during the parliamentary adjournment, just following the formation of Mr Key\u2019s Government; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c72de1dd348b49d4ab29e5099fff85eb\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: The member should realise that Ministers meet a variety of people and they discuss things that are appropriate in their different ministries and portfolios. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224025c0bfbea84c81a04410dd119e16e1\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Why have the venue, duration, and substance of this meeting not previously been disclosed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228adce5b7db774aec9749114939599db2\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b53514846aa4687a832ac161ac2b067\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, the Hon Gerry Brownlee. [Interruption] Order! [Interruption] No, I have not called the member yet. I just want silence for this point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253d253c2d0f94c9e82a01a46d06d49a4\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: The primary question is: \u201CDoes he stand by all his statements?\u201D. We are now getting into some sort of forensic consideration of a meeting that took place during the long 7-week parliamentary adjournment. There is nothing unusual in that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e61c658928da4aa39ceef785086589da\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And it will be for the Minister, in answering the question, to decide how he answers it. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f13a965a184173892c511c734766c9\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Can I hear that again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf5bcdc32aed4d93b9ce09a27ee3e324\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to ask that the question be heard again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022598cd9c9d7584eb69e23400ad0b41b4f\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Why have the venue, duration, and substance of this meeting not been disclosed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224b4147132b749b08b2104959bd9e148\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: This is a ridiculous question. I cannot believe that this member is even asserting that. As I mentioned in the answer that I just gave previously, Ministers meet a variety of people. When something is appropriate in their own portfolio they should indeed meet. I do not have the specifics of what went on at that meeting with a former Minister, and neither should I carry that around. If the member wants to put a detailed question on the sheet, then I am happy to answer it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5db475aa4ce4938967a60b25281a093\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Is not the real reason taxpayers\u2019 money is being wasted on the so-called Saudi agri-hub, which he has been supporting, that this Government is being blackmailed over what David Carter and the National Party and Michelle Boag promised in Opposition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260eb05b58f394075ab98bc0ab0c83cb6\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: No. That is a pathetic question and I refute that question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f81e61400d194e59b08ab00e938f1675\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00223868f767e9a3465393213595652a7202\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223868f767e9a3465393213595652a7202\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on the outlook for the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022115880f3cc0a43eb89f18d76cb67afd0\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0bbb3ea689d4ee0be451842ccf2315a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0bbb3ea689d4ee0be451842ccf2315a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E A rather more thorough report than that. I have seen reports where Fonterra has revised down its forecast payout from $5.25 to $3.85 per kilo of milk solids. This reduction will clearly have a significant impact on the dairy industry and dairy-intensive parts of the economy, but it is not a particularly surprising downgrade, as it reflects the ongoing reduction in the international dairy price. Fonterra has at the same time announced higher earnings per share of 40c to 50c and an optional interest-free support payment of 50c per kilo of milk solids. It is clear that for dairy farmers times are turning out tougher for longer than forecasters previously expected, but the additional measures announced by Fonterra on Friday will offset that to a certain extent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213aa6c77915240f9be0b2f14b4c64408\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: What effect will the fall in milk prices have on the wider economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268d9e7c1910647f1962c5cbfd84c2825\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It will certainly have a big effect on the dairy-intensive parts of the economy. A drop in revenue of this magnitude in the dairy sector will have flow-on effects to the wider economy because the dairy sector makes up about 20 percent of New Zealand\u2019s exports and around 5 to 6 percent of the total economy. The automatic stabilisers, though, are providing support to the dairy industry and to the benefit of other industries. For instance, the New Zealand dollar is down 25c against the US dollar for the last 12 months, and this underpins the returns of all exporters, not just those dealing with low prices. The Reserve Bank has cut interest rates, the overnight cash rate, to 3 percent and indicated this may fall further. The Reserve Bank\u2019s most recent forecasts of the economy show that the economy is growing around 2.5 percent a year, which is solid, sustainable growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a70343a3026433d98ecc60e396052c7\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has the Minister seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022972f88aeda184511ba8e0a4ba619b6e8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: In its Monthly Economic Indicators released last week Treasury said that most indicators remain around their long-run averages, with the exception of dairy prices, and they are consistent with an economy growing around its trend rate of 2 to 2.5 percent. Statistics New Zealand also released the latest employment figures last week. Unemployment increased from 5.8 percent to 5.9 percent. At the same time, the average wage increased by 3.2 percent in the last year, to over $57,000, considerably faster than inflation of 0.3 percent. Of course, there are a number of risks to the economy\u2014well-known risks, such as the uncertainty around Greece and some uncertainty about China\u2019s growth prospects. So there is some chance that we could move away slightly from the 2 to 2.5 percent growth rate that we are seeing now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022909143964ce74b9e93ea4def28ced313\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister of Finance received any reports that show that the New Zealand economy will face a $7 billion hole as a result of low dairy prices, and what specific measures is he putting in place to ensure that distressed dairy farmers are supported through this commodity price crash?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a052b431a284ee4848ac4d8a859cae7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have seen those reports and I am pleased the member asked about them. In order to understand the context of this, that $7 billion reduction is a reduction on nominal GDP of over $220 billion. When you look at it that way, you can see that it is going to have a negative effect on the economy, but a containable effect, and we can continue to grow at moderate rates. In respect of dairy farmers in distress, Governments have had in place for some time measures for those families that are in severe financial distress, but generally the Government would not be looking to financially support dairy farmers because of low prices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220547788cfb884e79b5271b4685e47d17\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Does he regret telling Radio New Zealand in March that the concentration of capital in dairying was \u201Cnot a bad thing\u201D, and how will he now ensure that this over-allocation of resources into one sector does not now put out of work thousands of farm labourers, retailers, contractors, and suppliers who all rely on dairy farms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ac8d5a3a6c84064b36747b12387c3e0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The flow of capital into the dairy industry has been based on a longer-term confidence that across the Asia-Pacific region the fast-growing class of middle-income consumers will show more demand for dairy and other protein products. That is a view of the world that is not really disputed by anyone in particular. In the short term, however, the reduction in income will of course have an impact on employment directly on dairy farms, but also in the supporting towns and services. The measures announced by Fonterra last week and the positive indications from the banks that they will finance cash flow for dairy farmers over the next 12 months mean that it will not be as bad as the straight drop in income indicates, because dairy farmers have to spend $4.50 a kilo just to get the milk on the truck.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dcea283df0f488b8246ff5503e98f46\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: What implications do recent developments in the international economy have for New Zealand\u2019s economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7554af2994c4a3685ebbede015dbadc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Although there are risks in the global economy, it is evident that growth in our trading partners is holding up reasonably well\u2014in the range of 3 percent to 4 percent. When we look back through the history of New Zealand\u2019s growth patterns, it is reasonably clear that when our trading partners are growing at that kind of rate\u20143 to 4 percent\u2014that is a positive indicator for sustainable, moderate growth in New Zealand of around 2 percent to 2.5 percent, which is our long-term trend growth rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227945a842f404f669ca396937e0dfd0f\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Given his previous answer that investment in dairying was based on a long-range view of the sector, what work has he done to understand whether the dairy price collapse is actually a structural long-term change in the market rather than a cyclical short-term change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275da8866509241b29b56c5523f47e0f5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We try to make an assessment about that, the same as everyone else. It is pretty evident, though, that no one is quite sure. It is likely that dairy prices will not go back to $8 a kilo. In fact, it may well be not a bad thing because what is evident is that the price going that high has stimulated not just positive supply but probably excess supply. No one quite knows the answer to that question, but talking to the people whose capital investment is at stake and whose livelihoods are at stake, they maintain confidence that prices will rise from where they are\u2014in fact, they have to, because they are below the cost of production\u2014and they maintain a positive view about where they put their investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca86c6d24f2147ddb11a7ac86133a355\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister of Finance seen this report about the economy under his watch, which features a boat that has run aground?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a68adeeef05c43779d7d99d487f7e5c2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have, and I thought how similar it is to the fate of the Labour Party. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285d7bc80438840b5ab676f25dfcbf6e1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just complete the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244f290c9dc0c4431a843baa859fd7de6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: In the interest of assisting the vice - great helmsman, as I understand it, that is the Westpac Economic Overview, and I note that its forecasts are for between 2 percent and 2.5 percent growth over the next 3 years, despite the fact that it says there is going to be a recession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022297e90a1162e42cfb046c89cfda0803a\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Will he stop subsidising the expansion of high input - cost dairying by spending $160 million on irrigation when that money would be much better invested in capturing more of the dairy value chain to escape the boom and bust of commodity price cycles? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4faf31f0fbc448ea38744cd8e881edc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I could not verify that number. What I can tell the member is that the irrigation investment fund has actually paid out around $8 million or $9 million, much as some people would wish it is $160 million\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dff928e4be949d98b85f9d789ba68c0\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: $6.5 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce07f6edaef849e6bc1498c5785b702c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014$6.5 million, sorry. So, look, the Government spreads its support for infrastructure around the country, whether it is roads or public transport, and in the case of irrigation schemes, dealing with some of the short-term demand issues that enable those schemes to get up and running, and we do not have any plan to change that. I do expect, though, that the low dairy prices mean that there will be less willingness among farmers to finance the overwhelming share of the development that they pay for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222629f29ad9624fd2a213cbd5248ce7d3\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that organic milk powder commands up to six times the price premium of conventional milk powder on international markets, and will he turn this crisis into an opportunity by helping move more dairy farmers into organic milk production? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a315c67d4584fcf8108808d95b62c22\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is correct that farmers can earn six times as much by selling their milk as they earn from organic milk, then I am quite sure they will. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e4cf74b0e844ee4882ce0d576b9ff4e\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: When he says that this is not a crisis and that dairy is just 5 percent of the economy, is he saying that when the All Blacks lose, it just does not matter because they are one of thousands of sports teams playing over the weekend, many of which are winning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c58bee6c1c54d89beee859cb88c1319\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In so far as there is ministerial responsibility, the Hon Bill English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022723d5e5c2e9e4338b4f2e0adfb39f515\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Clearly, the Greens like New Zealanders being able to watch the All Blacks lose, but they do not want them to be able to watch them win in the Rugby World Cup. I mean, when people use the word \u201Ccrisis\u201D, well, the Opposition should explain what that means. If those members think it means that dairy farmers are sitting around with their heads in their hands, paralysed by low prices, then they are wrong. Actually, they are getting up every morning, going out into the cold, wet weather, doing the calving, milking the cows, and spending the money they need to get their production moving and get their product to world markets. Calling it a crisis seems to me to be particularly useless. In fact, it downgrades the resilience and the responsiveness of not just the dairy sector but households right across New Zealand to a bit of economic pressure, which they can handle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e9f36b46b0d410cb861eeba40d9dabf\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u2014Unemployment and Dairy Industry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002242d242cd69cc44ccb85fd1bd97453395\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242d242cd69cc44ccb85fd1bd97453395\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement that New Zealand is on the \u201Ccusp of something special\u201D; if so, was that \u201Csomething special\u201D rising unemployment along with plummeting dairy prices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022db9613ceeaf84635b45b0bc20ba961b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db9613ceeaf84635b45b0bc20ba961b5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I stand by that statement, for two reasons. The first is that I am positive and aspirational for New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022125c82f8f9b94cd387ed5d606d1b5425\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5a04e58b29e430a98dba65fff9a80c0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014unlike some people who are always talking the country down. But, actually, the second reason I stand by that statement is that I made that statement on a couple of occasions during debates in the 2014 general election, and we were on the cusp of something special: the worst pounding the Labour Party had ever had\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffb9933a1c1740cbb05cc92d81f0d0d0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229623fec198d646559ace10d7720ff0b4\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the number of people who are unemployed has risen by 13,000 and that unemployment in Taranaki alone is now at 7 percent, and there are hundreds set to join them due to major job cuts announced recently, is it not the truth of it that he is sending more and more families to the cusp of poverty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d66ec47f3d543c6903dab87cf35fae5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, the Government has created\u2014along with the people of New Zealand, of course\u2014148,000 jobs over the last 2 years. But I note that the Labour Party has an interest all of a sudden, apparently, in farming. So when prices go up, it is nothing to do with the Government; when prices go down, it is everything to do with the Government! Those members are not asking: \u201CWhy are beef prices high? Is that the responsibility of the Government?\u201D. But I make this simple point: the Labour Party wanted to put a huge number of costs on farmers. That was its policy during the election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adadc685fec841e38dc3bd36e129d52f\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Given that Westpac says that there will be no more job growth this year, and the economy has grown at just a quarter of the expected rate, has he not driven the economy to the cusp of a recession?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d31313a4d7844a6beb2d01ed2b3f885\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: If the member goes and reads the Westpac report, the glimpse that I had a look through, it showed that growth will be between 2 percent and 2.5 percent over the next 3 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247795fa12fac4aefbbef913cafe90f13\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Why has he failed to invest in diversifying the economy, neglected regional infrastructure, and turned a blind eye to the 35,000 jobs lost in manufacturing since 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290db3a616d684e1b88ef71a5b06b42f5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member needs to get out a bit more\u2014it is as simple as that. If you go around New Zealand and have a look at what is happening around New Zealand, you will see just how diversified the economy is. Tourism spending alone is up over 20 percent from last year, at over $8 billion. The information and communications technology sector is doing well. Kiwifruit growing is back from the lows of Psa. Beef farming is doing extremely well. Horticulture is doing well around New Zealand. Manufacturing\u2014for 33 months in a row the performance of manufacturing index has been expanding. The services sector, export education\u2014the only people who think the economy is solely dairy are in the Labour Party, and it wanted to tax those people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e7e95b1d0b5448f973a5d408753df93\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225116d81cf6d64812831636048e0e2370\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Did he receive any official advice to back up his claim that a new flag would add billions to the economy, or was he making it up, just like usual?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe0d320c8f254a528f90917e7db7ae7c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do think that changing the flag has, over time, very significant economic benefits for New Zealand. The reason for that is that if you go and have a look on the New Zealand Herald website today, you will see New Zealanders voting, and I notice Mike Hosking\u2019s column today actually talking about genuine debate about the flag\u2014[Interruption] Oh, that is right. Just remind me: it is Labour Party policy to change the flag, but it does not want it. Oh, and Andrew Little was on his live chat 10 months ago supporting change, but today he does not want to do it. When we have a flag that is of the ilk that we see today, actually, it will be on our goods that are sent around the world, and that will have huge economic benefit. But the bottom line is this: if the Labour Party is telling New Zealanders, it simply misleads them with its policies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f74b7710237948199d183d55c42d0fd4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The answer is long enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a19d91406314a4f8d56c82ae2684e9c\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: To the Prime Minister, in terms of helping the economy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022516e9d81c4254f6b84628795791530a3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just ask the supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d7fedcc9f304f1892e5a684252e3a90\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Given that the Prime Minister knows about trading halts, why does he not agree with the Rt Hon Winston Peters and Federated Farmers Waikato\u2019s Chris Lewis that Fonterra should temporarily suspend participation on global dairy trade?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224602293bc70243c1a81ceb7d8519db04\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, that is a matter for Fonterra. It is a private organisation, and it makes up its own mind. But that is akin to saying: \u201CWhen things are going well, we\u2019ll have a global dairy auction. When they\u2019re going badly in the world market, we won\u2019t.\u201D In other words, when the poll results are high we will listen to them, and when the poll results for New Zealand First are bad, we will turn our eyes away. It is a ridiculous way to operate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221f39b1ba9d04e9e86e69daf1c8e624a\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: When dairy stock and land values fall in line with the falling commodity price and pay-out, as they always do, and dairy farming couples are forced into negative equity, and the foreign banks move in to foreclose\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262c7af58ba5d412f91a27edf7af5794e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can I have the question, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a78b32ba7c40456e882476f4eb17dcd4\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014what will he do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a94780d376b14b5d9b67012c8e2effb6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will just pick one basic point, and that is that there is no great evidence, actually, that when pay-outs go down, as they have, you will see a massive amount of foreign investment in dairy farms. They are far more likely, actually, to come in when they can make an economic return. At the current returns, as the member will know, most dairy farmers are either breaking even or not making money, and on that basis it is very unlikely that foreign investors are going to come in and buy those farms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226015fff17c734e48895c45747c8cfbc1\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Could I ask through you, Mr Speaker, whether the Prime Minister can comment on the particular part of my question that says\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af9bb65b2cd14350afd37bbf5a4fa4c4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No. [Interruption] No. Order! The member will resume his seat. If he can make his questions concise and to the point, then I can help him, but when it is a question as long as that one\u2014to the extent that I have got to intervene to ask for the question\u2014then, in my mind, the Prime Minister addressed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ec345b638184049948cb56127fe41ea\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Diversification\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1b676a5104b40bdb3483e882be94c8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1b676a5104b40bdb3483e882be94c8d\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: What progress is the Government making in diversifying the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa2036ca89114bd08faba037e6596fc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa2036ca89114bd08faba037e6596fc9\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E Very good progress. There has been very significant diversification in the economy since 2008, and many sectors of the economy are growing significantly in proportion. In fact, there are 199,000 more people employed now than there were 4\u00BD years ago, with 24,500 more employed in manufacturing in the past year alone. Sectors as diverse as the information and communications technology sector, which has grown at a rate of 9 percent per annum since 2008, now contribute 1.7 percent of GDP. International education is now worth nearly $2.85 billion and supports more than 30,000 Kiwi jobs. The wine industry\u2019s exports were $1.37 billion last year, up 8.2 percent in 1 year. High-tech manufacturing has grown from a $139 million industry a few years ago to a $1.4 billion one now. The tourism industry is, of course, worth 7 percent of GDP now. Although the dairy industry is struggling at the moment\u2014and that will certainly have an impact on the New Zealand economy\u2014other parts of the economy are growing strongly and are helping to counteract that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1bf22ce1dea4f2787eb617a0f3bdad3\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to further diversify the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256603bfba3ab48e393d611dbf52cddef\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Encouraging the economy to diversify and grow in different sectors is a very important part of the Government\u2019s comprehensive Business Growth Agenda. Initiatives contained in the Business Growth Agenda include Callaghan Innovation, and we are investing more and more in research and development for New Zealand\u2019s high-tech companies in order to develop new products and services. As part of Budget 2015 we invested an additional $80 million, bringing our total contribution to science and innovation to around $1.5 billion a year\u201470 percent more than 8 years ago. We are establishing information and communications technology grad schools to train more young people for this industry. We are lifting greatly the number of people in engineering disciplines; we are investing more in critical infrastructure like the roads of national significance and ultra-fast broadband; and, through New Zealand Trade and Enterprise, we are encouraging more New Zealand companies to grow offshore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4cdfaa618c44c548a3070c02e26ab0c\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government encouraging New Zealand companies to grow their offshore businesses and to expand into new and developing markets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a56af376dd7e446c926cd742cf0f81b3\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very important part of the task, and that is why we have increased the number of companies that New Zealand Trade and Enterprise works closely with by an additional 200 companies, to 700, helping more companies to boost their global reach and to open doors in new markets. We have added new New Zealand Trade and Enterprise positions in countries as diverse as Columbia, Saudi Arabia, Papua New Guinea, and Abu Dhabi; we have increased our presence in the Philippines, Indonesia, Australia, the UK, Germany, the US, Spain, Chile, and China; and we are further growing our international footprint. New Zealand Trade and Enterprise is working with more New Zealand companies up and down New Zealand in order to make the most of the free-trade agreements with Korea and also the new World Trade Organization government procurement agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022480e7980c7ae46daa1b1cf416b808853\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Why is export growth going backwards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022826cafd5724445d6be085cf93cdf8dff\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate that the Opposition members do not like it, because it does not fit with their lines, but their lines are rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022430d4fd7e2a4412d92ab3a9ebf71e5f3\u0022\u003EDairy Industry\u2014Milk Price Forecast and Sale of Land to Overseas Investors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b87c2b13d83346638e831f8c851a1b05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b87c2b13d83346638e831f8c851a1b05\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement that dairy prices are likely to be low for \u201Ca little bit longer\u201D, given the latest auction was a record low?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4b33be1a1bc44ffab09d51dcf5b3a5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4b33be1a1bc44ffab09d51dcf5b3a5f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d39be86368e4461982f7981a02c1c7a0\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Given that dairy farm prices have already fallen by 18 percent since peaking last October, what preparations has his Government undertaken for dealing with increased sell-offs by insolvent farmers who cannot make ends meet with dairy prices so low?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e68c73ddcb104ac6878e8419b11c1710\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: What we have done over the course of the last 7 years, after straightening out the mess we inherited from Labour and with our very strong economic management, is to make the economy more efficient and more productive. Here is a bunch of things that we have not done: we have not brought the emissions trading scheme in straight away, we have not put a large tax on water irrigation, we have not put a capital gains tax on every farm, we have not increased the minimum wage to two-thirds of the average wage, and we have not taken money out of the Primary Growth Partnership. We are in favour of the Trans-Pacific Partnership. The Labour Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d31b0cd0faf42f198a556c5519a3258\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f0184a071e04e39b81112560a13bbd3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is claiming it is the farmers\u2019 friend. They were the policies it took to the election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c98ee58d99894963aaa0a2c2d41b6674\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government\u2019s response to the reports that, contrary to Bill English\u2019s claims, the banks are already forcing mortgagee sales on indebted farmers, and what is to stop more of these farms being bought by overseas investors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217da1307de8b45309d3ad88b3a999068\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I am sure that the banks will work closely with farmers, as they typically do, because there is approximately $35 billion worth of debt, I think, sitting on dairy farms. One of the things the bankers will be sitting there and looking at is they will be looking at the policies of the National-led Government, which has supported the farmers; they will be looking at the proposed policies of Labour, which is anti-farmers; and they will be saying \u201CThank goodness National is in Government.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e210d43fb1f945adbc31af5140ec8daa\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Given his Government has rubber-stamped 296 sales of sensitive land to foreign buyers since the start of 2012, how much more land is he prepared to sell overseas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071efab374d1483993d0027e336535b5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is important to note that the Government, for the most part, does not actually sell land; land goes through the Overseas Investment Act and the Overseas Investment Office. As we know, the percentage of sales overseas is relatively small, and, actually, New Zealand is not seen as necessarily the easiest place to buy land. If you look around the OECD, we have as many restrictions as most other countries; in some cases, more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6368ed884d04347af436ba3130ad2ad\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: As a lot of his Government voted down a Labour bill that would have protected farms against being bought up by foreign investors, what steps is he prepared to take to ensure farms that are sold during this downturn will not end up in offshore ownership?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b396053b4d9b4b83a601934c4bd5d98e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: This is what would have driven farmers off the land: going into an emissions trading scheme straight away, whacking a massive new tax on irrigation, putting a capital gains tax on every farm, increasing the costs of wages on every farm, having less money in science and innovation, and being opposed to trade. It is pretty simple. Farmers in the dairy sector are subject to an international commodity price, which is clearly on a bit of a downturn at the moment. Last year it was in quite a big upswing. In fact, if you look between 2002 and 2006, the on-farm forecast was about the same as what it currently is today. It is not new. Apparently, in all those years when Labour was in office, it was fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d4785d05b9540f493e0ea5da808d390\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfcd07e47e4e4821ad582693044768d0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Today it is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc74c1e0b3c8419489bf36e7e60c8b95\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that there is a late entry in the flag referendum: a map of New Zealand with a \u201CFor Sale\u201D sign over it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9dea5d0de3b43afba96f276f231273c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member really needs to sort his game out, because either he wants to go on to his website and change his policy, which is to change the flag with a referendum, or he should realise that he is playing stupid politics with something that could actually seriously benefit New Zealand. That is why Labour continues to poll very poorly, because, in the end, it is just opposed to everything that the Government is in favour of, not because it is a good idea or a bad idea. Otherwise, Labour members must be misleading New Zealanders, because this is their policy. And when you were on your little chatroom a wee while ago, you were telling people you were in favour of it. Were you misleading them deliberately? I do not think so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8cfd7955a2a47339c8172f97641877b\u0022\u003EPrimary Sector\u2014Export Forecasts\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00222da1f2d8240744708de784c2bf41da07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222da1f2d8240744708de784c2bf41da07\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Primary Industries: What reports has he received on the outlook for primary sector exports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb7e27cf21e94e978186b26412bfff06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb7e27cf21e94e978186b26412bfff06\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E The Situation and Outlook for Primary Industries for 2015 highlights that the medium to long term outlook for our primary sectors is indeed positive. Although the outlook forecasts that some sectors, like dairying, will experience short-term volatility, overall primary sector exports should increase by 17 percent to $41 billion by 2019. Importantly, the outlook highlights the long-term trend of global income and population growth, particularly on our Asian doorstep. This will provide an opportunity for New Zealand to continue growing its customer base with sustainable economic growth\u2014indeed boosting the regions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8b235628e15423cb5b801a22f40866b\u0022\u003EIan McKelvie\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Situation and Outlook for Primary Industries 2015 highlight about the short-term volatility in the dairy sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022099ed728708441428a0a2e905479c6f7\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: The outlook highlights that large price peaks are often followed by price falls and then recoveries. At the moment the world is pretty much awash with milk. China has taken longer than expected to come back into the market. The removal of the European milk quotas is expected to increase the world supply of milk. The Russian sanctions are also having an impact on some of our traditional markets. However, as this report highlights, the medium to long term outlook for the dairy sector is very positive. Just one example: a 1 percent increase in income is estimated to increase the demand for dairy products by 0.8 percent. As the incomes of developing countries increase, so will the demand for New Zealand dairy products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223230f59bd8484095b94b790269de4a54\u0022\u003EIan McKelvie\u003C/span\u003E: What is the outlook for our other primary sectors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243456251e6244d1db61448f6335c5d55\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very good question. Strong growth in the meat, horticulture, and seafood sectors has helped to partially offset any decrease in the dairy sector, and these sectors have very strong outlooks. In the meat sector, beef export revenue is up by 30 percent, and we are likely to fill our US quota for the first time ever. Total meat and wool exports are expected to increase by almost 11 percent to $9 billion by 2019. Strong growth in kiwifruit and wine exports is driving horticulture export revenue past $4 billion, and it is forecast to reach $4.6 billion by 2019. Seafood export earnings are forecast to reach $1.8 billion by 2019, driven primarily by aquaculture planned expansion growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225a7aea19f3cc4d298e60beaee6ad6f9a\u0022\u003EEconomic Outlook\u2014Milk Price Forecast and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00228197f98b0076485ba65446748ce29cf3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228197f98b0076485ba65446748ce29cf3\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that \u201CDairy is 5% of our economy. So yes dairy prices are down and it\u2019s tough on those dairy farmers who are resilient people, but 95% of our economy is not involved in that\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022710d0424e22744e0aff43e32ceb470db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022710d0424e22744e0aff43e32ceb470db\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b311a4b399594be99c0d2ff7aae7f6f4\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, if 95 percent of people are not affected, how does he explain retailers in Taranaki who say that the downturn in the dairy market is seeing sales decline between 10 and 20 percent, including one retailer who said that the situation was as bad as it was at the height of the global financial crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8fdf806c06f44728e939e8208d05624\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Because that seems to be a natural consequence of the fact that dairy farmers in Taranaki are earning less, so they are spending less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d1885b686f745af952784a171dce627\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What explanation does he have for the following reports on economic confidence: the July Colmar Brunton survey that shows economic pessimism outweighing optimism for the first time in 6 years, the Reid Research Services poll that says that 64 percent of people think we are heading for a downturn, the ANZ business confidence survey that reports a 6-year low in business confidence, or today\u2019s Westpac quarterly economic survey, which features a boat that has run aground\u2014symbolising his management of the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228381090acf8744d4b6bdce0aec108802\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the reason for that is pretty obvious. People have been adjusting to a stream of what they regard as pretty negative news: first, about Greece, then about China, then more recently about a steadily dropping dairy price, and a few other indications that the economy, which was growing at 3 to 3.5 percent, looks like it is growing at 2 to 2.5 percent. So given how high the levels of confidence were, it is not surprising that they dropped somewhat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022088742434cb14a39bee15762da2243f6\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he expect to meet forecasts in his Budget for reducing unemployment to below 5 percent, or after three quarters of increasing unemployment is he prepared to admit that Westpac is right and unemployment is heading back to over 6 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6beec0c432e42a3851d017607298160\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There will always be differences between forecasts. What has been positive about the labour market has been the continued growth in new jobs and the continuation of a record high participation rate\u2014that is, a bigger proportion of the working-age population available for work than has ever been the case. So in light of those positive trends it is still possible that unemployment could rise. We have yet to see. What we do know is that we have an economy that is producing a lot of new jobs and has slightly more New Zealanders showing up for them than there is growth in jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e38c6faf5719437e838e96fe1fad9754\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Why was he so keen to take credit for the state of the economy when it was going well, but at the first sign of a downturn it is everyone else\u2019s fault?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235b0277f7be54ffaa07688ddb4f1e067\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member should go back and have a look, because, actually, this Government has always given credit for the stronger economy to New Zealand households and businesses, which, in the face of a recession and an earthquake, rearranged the way they operated, became more efficient and leaner, and got themselves through a very difficult period. We have always attributed the strength of the economy to the people who are the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e60848af98b44f30ad36d9b93be68b75\u0022\u003EWaste Management\u2014Plastic Bags\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022 data-id=\u00227ff7c17d728746c68bfe4fad974a0369\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ff7c17d728746c68bfe4fad974a0369\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: Why has he announced a plastics recycling initiative rather than a levy when recycling will only maintain the volume of plastic in the waste stream, whereas a levy will reduce the number of plastic bags in circulation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022561a9fb8532b4f6ea676f553020f31d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022561a9fb8532b4f6ea676f553020f31d0\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Plastic shopping bags actually make up only about 2 percent of plastic waste. Focusing only on these ignores the large volume of waste from plastic bread bags, plastic frozen food bags, plastic vegetable and fruit bags, and actually dozens of other types of plastic packaging. The strength of the Government\u2019s approach is that it enables recycling of all soft plastic packaging. The Government has introduced a levy on waste going to landfill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251a53a634b3241c0a5d2e5cdbac82b33\u0022\u003EDenise Roche\u003C/span\u003E: Given that there are less harmful alternatives for the 1.6 billion plastic bags used in New Zealand every year, why will he not introduce a levy to reduce their use?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1869dcf88294fb8aed23b5f6a77899b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Plastic shopping bags make up only 0.2 percent of waste that goes to landfill. I would also point out that in the scientific surveys of amounts of litter, these plastic bags are actually only about 1 percent of New Zealand\u2019s litter problem. So they are such a small proportion that it seems somewhat unusual to target all our waste efforts on this single product. I note that some supermarkets are tempted to introduce a levy. It was not at all popular with consumers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4436c82ded64ca18783c7fb6e8eae87\u0022\u003EDenise Roche\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, is he spending $1.2 million from the Waste Minimisation Fund on a scheme that does not actually minimise waste?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221be0f158ce53480f997d2dc9dbd28ebb\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am somewhat surprised to see the Greens criticising recycling. What the Government is doing is saying that by recycling those plastics, whether they are plastic shopping bags or frozen food bags\u2014all those soft plastics that are often collected by New Zealanders and currently end up just going to landfill\u2014as in Australia, if we can recycle them, this enables us to reduce the amount of petrochemicals that we are importing from overseas to make new plastic bags.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203e62a45c53a402f90a85ef8ca534f25\u0022\u003EDenise Roche\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister listen to the 89 percent of Local Government New Zealand delegates who are calling for a levy on plastic bags because a levy would lead to fewer plastic bags being used and ending up in the environment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4c7e2b2a0a14a43ae6649d705f5e130\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I noticed that in 2009 a number of supermarkets took the Green Party\u2019s advice and did introduce a levy on shopping bags. It went down very badly with consumers, and, actually, this Government is more focused on the general public than we are on what general councils or others want to think people want to do. There are also large numbers of perfectly responsible New Zealanders who use those plastic shopping bags to dispose responsibly of their other wastes. My advice is that that poses little harm to the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f018ca9745842b29d2756e78c2754f9\u0022\u003EDenise Roche\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was specifically\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223acef1dc633c4094b77bdebbfe49202f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No, your question has been addressed by the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002270a1231708be4e46abe1160eaa99f871\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Elective Surgery\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a869340320124091a1b880ae3cb776c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a869340320124091a1b880ae3cb776c2\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Can he confirm that the number of patients benefiting from elective surgery has increased by 5,030 in the last financial year, and that 49,234 more patients are having surgery now compared to 2007/2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcb9626efadf49348caa45736f025a32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcb9626efadf49348caa45736f025a32\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I can. When National was elected in 2008, increasing the number of elective surgeries every year was a top Government priority. These new figures show that a record 167,188 New Zealanders received elective surgery in 2014-15, a remarkable increase of 42 percent on 2007-08. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269b725ea2f9b43409050bb371857a8ce\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: What is the spread of these increased numbers across the types of elective surgery, and what is his expectation for the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c7a1b4e3a2f475fba0f419aab0314c6\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: This continued growth in elective surgeries\u2014over 5,000 in the last year\u2014has been spread across the specialities. It includes more than 690 orthopaedic operations, 1,300 general surgeries, and 150 more cardiothoracic surgeries. It is my expectation that the district health boards will continue to deliver increases averaging 4,000 more surgeries a year over the next 3 years, which is why the Government invested an extra $92 million into elective surgery in the last Budget. This Government is committed to protecting and growing public health services, and the extra 50,000 surgeries over the last 7 years is evidence of that commitment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c382423244744d14a161b140bb6782a4\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will the prediction of deficits by 11 of the 20 district health boards have on their ability to provide services in a timely manner?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022782e8ef55e3f438fa7a1d1ea3740ae2f\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: The member does not need to worry about that because we have reduced those deficits from $150 million under the last Government to around $50 million and dropping over the longer term under this Government. In actual fact, there is nothing to worry about. It will not be like when Mrs King was Minister and the budget doubled, but there were 2,000\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022463f61eaded14ca7b0693054faed7820\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221945e7fea0ea4d9bb85ddea3e7e27445\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was a straight question. It had no political inference in it. I asked what the impact of deficits was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d00e1dd88cbf48fc9a5cb5839ce10892\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! And the Minister was\u2014[Interruption] Order! The question was answered in order. It was describing what impacts\u2014which, in the Minister\u2019s mind, were relatively minimal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022851576af544f41d1be14d2ec072831f2\u0022\u003ETrade Agreements\u2014Saudi Agri-hub\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d382c65fc9b048bbad5a5ead28d02cb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d382c65fc9b048bbad5a5ead28d02cb8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Did he chair the Cabinet on 18 February 2013 when Cabinet noted the initial $4m payment to a \u201CSaudi investor\u201D, and did he ask why Cabinet approval was not being sought?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8a915ec66c44552b69f984b6180f08e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8a915ec66c44552b69f984b6180f08e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I did chair Cabinet. In answer to the second part of the question, no. Cabinet was asked to note the payment. It was within the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade\u2019s appropriation and did not require Cabinet approval.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286753c5e1bc64003a67bfa7436787afb\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: When he was chairing that Cabinet meeting was he aware that Minister McCully had told the Saudi investor and Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade officials that he would \u201Cnot want any financial contributions to be treated as compensation as this would involve a plethora of lawyers and bureaucrats.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df6eeda225c246e4a019ea409036659b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have been aware the whole way through that Mr McCully has never viewed this as compensation, because it is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e2e8816f7194256b47a25e5f99d0a08\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was not my question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e32478e369f496a8ab9f38307230c73\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it was your question, and it has been answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230a35c3cecfa4ff48d8f2ee2ce3da8e8\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed24bf766e02406f9ac6d728fc559b42\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Does the member have a further supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ee7a4edca24467087a1541b980e56c9\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the contract for the $4 million payment make no reference to the settlement of the long-running dispute, when Cabinet noted this as part of the payment\u2019s purpose?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d3d5c7192ce4b85951d822066a23053\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: You really have to refer that to the Minister of Foreign Affairs because the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade put the contract together. But everyone is aware, in reading the papers, just where the responsibility started. It was with the Labour Government, and, yes, National cleaned it up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc22221fbb9e4df084ede5c88401054e\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Did Minister McCully tell him and his Cabinet that the Auditor-General had made a written complaint to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade about the ministry misrepresenting its advice about the Saudi sheep deal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fa35f751fed4d858c74ce9a5b48007f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot recall discussions about the Auditor-General, but I think it has been quite clear that there was some early dialogue. Ultimately, actually, the officials are very happy with the way the process went.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b624f4aee2047708f3e41e02bd5bcbf\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: What can his Government show for this dodgy deal other than a sullied international reputation; a failed farm in the desert, where the lambs died in a sandstorm, according to his own Minister; and the waste of over 11 million of taxpayers\u2019 hard-earned dollars\u2014and still no free-trade agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223412045ad22e4decb78d372a79a59be9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the truth is inconvenient, but it is worth actually having a look at the papers because it was Labour that imposed the ban. It was the Labour Government that said it would reverse the ban, and it was Labour that dispatched the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade at the time, Phil Goff, who told the Saudi Minister that they would restart, and it was the Labour Government that actually did not tell the Saudis until it had publicly made the decision. It is very inconvenient but this all started with Labour. That is what I call dodgy dealings\u2014it is the Labour Party\u2019s actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022269e017032374d4b84471ec997b629b9\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the dump of 900 pages of documents last week that failed to prove a single word of the claims made by the Prime Minister about the Labour Government and the fact that it is the National Government that twice continued the ban on live sheep exports, is it not time that he finally cut through all that crap and was straight with New Zealand? What is the real reason he paid off Al-Khalaf?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d96b794bdd493d8c3027a10bd8a284\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Being \u201CAngry Andrew\u201D worked the first time he was in Parliament. Now it just looks like bad language and the inability to actually front up and be honest. Phil Goff went to Saudi Arabia and misled them. The rest is history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022662876907d0449d5837ad39cd27348d1\u0022\u003EEducation\u2014Asian Language Learning in Schools Fund\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022f044c49a8d38465bab1f4ecb00f194e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f044c49a8d38465bab1f4ecb00f194e1\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What recent announcement has she made that supports the learning of Asian languages in schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7f8fe0980af4b95b41a9da5c83d5592\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7f8fe0980af4b95b41a9da5c83d5592\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to announce that 22 programmes, involving 129 schools, will receive a total of $3.3 million over the next 3 years in order to establish new Mandarin, Japanese, or Korean language programmes and to expand existing ones. This signals the first phase of the Government\u2019s commitment to spending a total of $10 million over 5 years to increase the provision of Asian languages in schools. The first round generated such enthusiasm for Asian languages in classrooms that for the second round we are extending funding eligibility to include all Asian languages. Applications for that round open today, and schools have until 25 September to register their interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225df451b44d84390b710765ff5459f07\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that New Zealand students learning an Asian language is more useful or has more value than New Zealand students learning Te Reo M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be67a46b9f31424381c6e672b14529af\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: The decision as to which languages a school wishes to provide to its students is a discussion between that school and its board of trustees. What this Government does is fund and support the availability of Te Reo M\u0101ori, English, and sign language, and, in addition, this wonderful announcement that I am making today about Asian languages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228c79d5b32c447d0aebdb57c99354144\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: What benefit will the Asian Language Learning in Schools (ALLiS) fund bring to New Zealand children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263ed923150144058b6eab8b2ffde7337\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: International evidence shows that learning a second language can also contribute to the development of a student\u2019s literacy skills in their first language. Also, in addition to supporting our official languages\u2014English, Te Reo M\u0101ori, and sign language\u2014and Pasifika languages, we need to provide young New Zealanders with opportunities to learn the languages of countries that we have strong cultural, economic, and trade relationships with. As our international and trading links grow, particularly with Asian countries, future generations of kids will need to be able to work in different cultural environments and to communicate in different languages. Easy access to learning an Asian language is a real benefit to the young people of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b0f2e1aa8c64d75921a76c612bd3453\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister be making a similar announcement that her Government will also provide the additional funding required in order to increase the number of resource teachers of M\u0101ori, thereby supporting the delivery of Te Reo M\u0101ori in both English and M\u0101ori-medium schools; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7ca87dcae3b4bc29850173a270be745\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I can refer that member to successive Budgets within which we have made those commitments already. There are scholarships available for kaiako\u2014that was announced in Budget 2013.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214cc271de7e34ca6ad5506d624f65d4b\u0022\u003ETracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was specifically about an increase in the number of resource teachers of M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224621f42651cf48189d8fcd71e9ec9f7b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No, no\u2014the question started with \u201CWill the Minister be making similar announcements\u201D. The Minister was talking about previous announcements that she has made. Does the Minister wish to complete the answer? Then the question has been answered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022caab2f49af6f4e16a33954746e455f4d\u0022\u003EPoint of Order\u2014Leave to Ask Question\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d491318662db4301bb38c236c6f94a05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d491318662db4301bb38c236c6f94a05\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Standing Orders allow for 12 oral questions each day. I understand that the M\u0101ori Party was unable to lodge a question by the deadline this morning. I therefore seek leave for it to be able to ask its oral question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002233da963059154082b45c04111bf89fce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233da963059154082b45c04111bf89fce\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! You cannot. The member knows the rules of this House very well. He cannot seek leave on behalf of another member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022426f24097e5c48cd822de4c12e38ab90\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: In that case, I seek leave to ask a question myself, seeing as there is not an additional question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00223419c8b03a8646d2869c09726b975b98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223419c8b03a8646d2869c09726b975b98\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] No, I just need to deal with this first. That is certainly within the Standing Orders. Leave is sought by Chris Hipkins to ask one additional question. Is there any objection? There is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022 data-id=\u002274e4b707bd524fbb8c77e6a4c65efaa8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274e4b707bd524fbb8c77e6a4c65efaa8\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to ask a question on behalf of the M\u0101ori Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e036cc5e3b824dc2af588d84ee842b92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e036cc5e3b824dc2af588d84ee842b92\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that particular course of action. Is there any objection? There is none. It is very unusual. I need to know\u2014I think you also need to describe whom you are asking the question to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222193371e344e4b84a9b80d4c3a3dc55d\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to ask the question to the Minister for Social Development. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e809e4e77c6c41138aef9a8b6811f10c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e809e4e77c6c41138aef9a8b6811f10c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I am going to allow the member to put the leave, in view of the fact that we have done it before. If the House decides it is in order, so be it. If the House\u2014[Interruption] Order! The leave was put without us knowing where the question was going. I am going to put the leave again. It will then be over to the House to decide. Leave is sought by Marama Fox to ask a question of the Minister for Social Development. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4deadc07d6f43759527be1908c042af\u0022\u003EMarama Fox\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and apologies to the House for the administrative error.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d12acf6bde647729eaba63a79189de0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just ask the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d75711092cb249d58af056b879fe9044\u0022\u003EChild, Youth and Family\u2014Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8ba9177847b488d95dd5a8a50a4b258\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8ba9177847b488d95dd5a8a50a4b258\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: Has the Minister provided, through the Child, Youth and Family review, opportunity to ensure that children are not being alienated from their wh\u0101nau throughout the process of the modernisation in the review?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00222e64cce4fa074f7baeb4b96225940a40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e64cce4fa074f7baeb4b96225940a40\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E The Child, Youth and Family review, of course, is still ongoing, and I have only just received the first report from the panel. But we have, throughout the review to date, taken great lengths to ensure that the voices of children are heard, and I have set up an advisory committee consisting of eight young people who have experienced care under the current Child, Youth and Family system. I have also made two appointments to the review panel who have extensive experience in M\u0101ori, as M\u0101ori make up more than 50 percent of the numbers of children in care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228e67d94afae446deb19a7ee285c0ba6f\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f629a8cd444d4b56b34da49e9e42498d\u0022\u003ETrade Agreements\u2014Saudi Agri-hub and Release of Information\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00227466facc8357479883dcf96dd37e67f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227466facc8357479883dcf96dd37e67f8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from the Hon David Parker seeking to debate under Standing Order 389 the release of documents pertaining to the Government\u2019s dealings with a Saudi businessman. This is a particular case of recent occurrence involving ministerial responsibility. There must be an element of urgency for a matter to take precedence over other business. The proper use of taxpayer funds is an important issue. The question is whether the release of documents is an issue so urgent that the ordinary business of the House should be set aside to address it. I am not persuaded that the business of the House should be set aside today. However, I note that the Auditor-General has been asked to investigate the matter. Should she do so, then the findings of that investigation may warrant a debate in the House at that time. The application is, therefore, declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f735317106d64b9b8e3d81e7ff166d72\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Flag Referendums Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223932468d929346fda48de31e0e81094b\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000205\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 29 July.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dfecd39f550c408a8ad11b0ff17bc065\u0022\u003EPart 3  Miscellaneous provisions (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002271f39576837147cbb17e0d1e72350512\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271f39576837147cbb17e0d1e72350512\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: When we were last debating this bill, the Committee was debating Part 3 and Stuart Nash had the call. He has 20 seconds remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022800651a2ce6d48238e7e69d62a96e797\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Make it good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4d7bf4605984d3e9beacf05b708eac5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4d7bf4605984d3e9beacf05b708eac5\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I will make it good, because this bill is a very, very poor bill. We know this. It has been reiterated. In fact, the vast majority of New Zealanders know this. When I speak to New Zealanders in my electorate, they say to me: \u201CWhat about employment? What about job opportunities? What about economic development?\u201D. They ask the question: why is the Government wasting money on a flag referendum, when there are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002254ca61c4b327405e961bcf03a28f9f42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254ca61c4b327405e961bcf03a28f9f42\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to take my call on this particular bill. I am just turning to Part 3, the part that we are debating. Of course, the major issue that the people in my electorate want to know about is why on earth the Government is spending so much money on this referendum at this given time. They simply cannot understand it when there is no appetite for change. Why has the Government not made the decision to firstly test the will of the public towards the need for a change or the desire for a change before it then goes and has another expensive referendum asking people to choose the option they wish to have? The issue here is why we would have a run-off competition to choose the preferred design if it is ultimately going to be voted down in the end anyway. Why bother going through that particular part of the process if it is going to be voted down anyway? That is the question that everybody has been raising with me, and I think it is a very legitimate one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI have yet to hear anyone from the Government\u2014anyone from the Government\u2014provide a comprehensive answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225de2e27438e341d4968a5daf7721f699\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Wasn\u2019t it in my speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6bbf46c35c643dfa538ec8852bd693d\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: No, not at all\u2014not at all. We have not had an answer as to why not ask yes or no before asking people which option they would prefer if the answer was yes. There has not been a good answer from the Government on that. It is trying to do everything it possibly can to generate as much interest in the referendum, but what is interesting is that the more interest the Government generates in it, the more opposed people are becoming to the idea of changing the flag. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI think that says everything about where the current Government\u2019s priorities are. It is more interested in talking about the flag than many of the very important issues that face New Zealand at the moment, and I think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b87031a867c742dcb9cf4a58a0fb84c4\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We are currently in debate on Part 3, which is a very narrow part of this bill\u2014essentially, dealing with regulations and validation of irregularities. The member has had nothing to say yet on either on those topics, and I would invite him to either speak to Part 3 or cease his call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb53a26a8d4a42c4a6985391e41ef42b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: The point of order is well made. I am listening closely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9a227f3756b441abec2200134df5110\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: While we are on Part 3, if we turn to the highlighted section 5, as inserted by clause 69, which describes the New Zealand flag, I think that this might be a good place for me to address some of the comments that I have been raising. The New Zealand flag is described as \u201Cthe national flag of New Zealand for general use on land within New Zealand and, where appropriate for international purposes, overseas; and \u2026 is the proper national colours to be worn by all New Zealand Government ships, and by such other New Zealand ships as may for the time being be authorised to wear the New Zealand Flag by or under the Ship Registration Act 1992.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons that I am interested in that is I made the suggestion at the beginning that if New Zealand were to adopt a new flag, why would it not do something similar to what was done with the national anthem and actually have for a period of time two New Zealand flags so that those who wished to continue to fly the existing flag could do so? That is the arrangement that we have in place for the national anthem. We actually have two national anthems in New Zealand. \u201CGod Save the Queen\u201D is still our national anthem. It is very, very seldom used in New Zealand but those who wish to use it can still do so. The definitions of the New Zealand flag in this bill make provision for there being only a single flag. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI thank my colleague Tim Macindoe for providing me with the opportunity to read that particular section while he raised his point of order, because the issue here is why the Government did not allow for the possibility that, in fact, although there may be some desire on the part of some New Zealanders to have a change of flag, the vast bulk of people would prefer to stick with the existing flag. Why did the Government not make provision for that within the legislation? It would actually have been perfectly possible for the Government to make provision for there to be two flags just as we have two national anthems, so that those who are, for whatever reason, very attached to the current flag\u2014and I have to say that I am not one of them but I note that the vast bulk of my constituents are. So I ask why the Government would not make provision for people to continue to use that flag. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt may be that there are some occasions when the use of the current flag would be more appropriate than the use of a new flag. I note, for example, that much of the feedback in this debate is about why we are doing this when we are commemorating the First World War and that, in fact, people would rather have the existing flag\u2014the flag that New Zealand soldiers fought under in the First World War\u2014on display at those events. That would be a legitimate reason why, potentially, we might have a definition that allowed there to be more than one official flag of New Zealand. At those events where it is more appropriate and that are of a commemorative nature, it may be more appropriate to have a definition in the bill that allows there to be another official flag, which is the existing flag, even if New Zealanders voted to change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002213a8012175454affae28422faefa482b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213a8012175454affae28422faefa482b\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak on what is, I guess, an important issue, but not an important piece of legislation. If that sounds somewhat contradictory, I think the fact is that we are putting the cart before the horse here, in my view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIn speaking on Part 3, \u201CMiscellaneous provisions\u201D, including validation of irregularities, I will refer to clause 69, which inserts new section 5. It is about the New Zealand flag. The reality here is that we have not yet decided what the flag should be, so I am putting before the Committee one of the options that was certainly brought to my attention. If the New Zealand flag is as described here in new section 5\u2014\u201C\u2026 the national flag of New Zealand for general use on land \u2026\u201D\u2014then I guess the inclusion of a sea mammal is probably outside it. Although that might seem a little too cute, the reality is that the interpretation of this piece of legislation and of this part is really important. It must reflect the objectives, I guess, of New Zealand having a flag. What it says in paragraph (b) of new section 5(3) is that the New Zealand flag \u201Cis the proper national colours to be worn by all New Zealand Government ships, and by such other New Zealand ships \u2026\u201D. The point is that the colours that will be chosen for the flag will end up being the colours that each and every New Zealander should identify with. I am not sure what they should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI think black is a good start. I will put before you again this quite innovative flag design here. I do not think it is one of the 40 being put up\u2014I have not, to be fair, gone through and had a detailed look at all 40\u2014but it does cover a few things. For the current National Government, I would suggest, it is a perfect representation of what is about to happen, because we have the whale above the water with the kiwi and the lamb on it, about to do a big dive\u2014about to do a big dive\u2014as is this economy, taking with it the sheep and the kiwi. It is a perfect representation of the National Government in power, because the National Government is taking this economy into a deep, deep dive. It is ignoring all the warning signals showing that we are facing recession, particularly in dairy, for some time, and probably longer than even the whale can hold its breath. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI will come back to Part 3 here. It is important that there is widespread support for this legislation and all the details included in this bill. I do not think that is the case. I think that what the Government is trying to do here is pass a piece of legislation that does not have the full support of Kiwis and that does not have the support of New Zealanders who are looking forward and who are asking the questions about the colours that should represent us and the flag design that should represent us. Indeed, if the Government is so determined to go ahead, then put up the flag and then come to us with the legislation that may allow us to utilise the flag in the way that should be intended, to ensure that if we insist that the national colours, as is stated here in Part 3\u2014\u201Cproper national colours to be worn by all New Zealand Government ships\u201D. If the flag design is not the right one and the Government, as it has done in most areas, just bulldozes through with that intention, we are all lumbered with it, as is the navy, as are New Zealand ships, and as is every part of our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis is not a good piece of legislation and Labour is raising concerns that I hope Minister Bill English will get up and answer. I hope he will get up and explain himself as to why the National Government is determined to push ahead with this waste of money, come up with a design, and a new focus that the vast majority of New Zealanders see as unnecessary and certainly as untimely. We have bigger issues that the Government and this House should be focusing on, not just a flag design. Perhaps the Minister can explain to me why we should not put this design up as a design, given that it is such a great representation of the National Government as it is at the moment: taking this economy into a deep, deep dive that is going to leave a lot of Kiwis drowning\u2014and, indeed, a lot of sheep\u2014because they do not have the proper support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u002260a7a888b89443259d63aac7270c070a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260a7a888b89443259d63aac7270c070a\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to look at clause 68, \u201CValidation of irregularities\u201D. Clause 68(1) says: \u201CIn the circumstances described in subsection (2), the Governor-General may, by Order in Council, do any of the things described in subsection (3).\u201D That sounds to me like the Governor-General has quite broad scope, actually, to act and to do a variety of things: to extend the time lines that are included in the legislation and to validate any things that have or have not been done. Basically, my reading of this\u2014and, again, I was not on the Justice and Electoral Committee, so if members who were on the select committee could give us a little bit more information about this, that would be helpful\u2014is that the Governor-General has quite a lot of scope to be able to do things by Order in Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI wonder whether one of the circumstances in clause 68(2)(b)\u2014\u201Cif anything cannot be done at the time required by or under this Act;\u201D\u2014is if one of the things that cannot be done is for the Government to run a surplus or, maybe, to get the country\u2019s debt below $101 billion, which might actually be a step in the right direction towards being the time when you would spend $26 million on a flag referendum. If that were not to happen, I wonder whether the Governor-General might be able, by Order in Council, to do one of the things under clause 68(3)\u2014that is, subclause (3)(a): \u201Cat any time before or after the time within which the thing is required to be done, to extend that time;\u201D. So, in other words, what I am getting at is, if the Government cannot get us back to surplus, or at least get the debt below $100 billion and actually get us a step towards the point where you would spend $26 million on a vanity project for the Prime Minister, maybe the Governor-General might be able to say: \u201CYou know what? Let\u2019s extend the time before we have the first referendum, and let\u2019s just wait until a time that is a little bit more appropriate for this referendum to occur.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI think what we have heard loudly from the public\u2014whether you are for or against the idea of changing the flag\u2014is that people have made it quite clear that now is not the time, and one of the reasons that they are quite clear that now is not the time is the fact that we are not in surplus and we are at such a deep level of debt. OK, fine, pass the legislation now if we must, but set this up as a process that will occur a bit further down the track. I think that here, in clause 68, in Part 3, we may actually have the mechanism for that to happen. Cabinet could decide to listen to the people of New Zealand\u2014that would be a first. It could decide to do that, and it could instruct the Governor-General, by Order in Council, to extend the time before which the referendum actually occurs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eea8f3da38134b3bbe00ebbfba4abb2b\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Again, I draw your attention to the question of relevance. There is nothing in clause 68(2) that is remotely relevant to the comments that this member is making. He is attempting to bring in ludicrous matters that are totally extraneous to a very, very tight and technical provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230219909e1a24491865121264fcc6b02\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: The point that I would make to you is that the Speakers\u2019 rulings are very clear that the question of relevance is a matter for only the Chair and that it is, in fact, disorderly for anyone other than the Chair to interrupt a member\u2019s speech to question them on relevance. The senior Government whip has done that twice now, when, in fact, the only person who has the prerogative to do that is you, as the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb2a0944e11d487899b6ec20ea5130a2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member Iain Lees-Galloway to continue with his speech. We will all be listening closely to what he has to say, relevant to the particular clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c297001ff37b4fd3a109ced77ffbd153\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Except me\u2014I\u2019m not listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273636ebfdeb646bb888149cd1e50dd14\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I could tell that you were listening, Mr Chair. It is a shame that the Minister in the chair has just admitted that he is not listening. He may as well just go out there and say that to the public of New Zealand: \u201CI\u2019m not listening.\u201D The Deputy Prime Minister, the Minister of Finance, has just admitted that he is not listening. He is not listening to this debate, and that is exactly what the Government is doing. It is not listening to the people of New Zealand, who have overwhelmingly said: \u201CThis is not the time for this debate. This is not the time to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226da29be8ff3e426394fe5dc734bce6b8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Well exploited, but get back to the clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a17ae0fcd1fe4872a2dd383d5e973269\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I was very happy talking about the clause before I was interrupted by the senior Government whip and before the Deputy Prime Minister interjected that he was not listening, and I was quite happy to respond to the interjection from the Deputy Prime Minister that he was not listening. But, honestly, I know that the senior Government whip is very keen to shut this debate down, but those were serious questions. I was not on the select committee. I am reading this clause\u2014I am doing a close reading of this clause\u2014and I want to know, either from the Minister who is not listening or maybe from one of the members opposite who was on the select committee, whether that is possible. Is that possible under clause 68? Could Cabinet, through the Governor-General, by Order in Council, extend the date, or perhaps delay the date, for the referendum to a point in time that might be more acceptable to the public of New Zealand? That is my reading of clause 68, and I would be very happy to have that clarified either by the Minister or by any member opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI would like to touch on clause 69, \u201CAmendments to Flags, Emblems, and Names Protection Act 1981\u201D, which replaces section 5, regarding the New Zealand flag. This is an interesting thing that is going on with the current flag\u2014which is called the 1902 flag\u2014which would be \u201Crecognised as a flag of historical significance to the Realm,\u201D. I find new section 5A(2) really, really strange. New section 5A(2) allows people, in the event that the flag changes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00225d4428aa75bb4b878b2434341c8564cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d4428aa75bb4b878b2434341c8564cd\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I want to speak to clause 69(4) in Part 3 and, in particular, its reference to section 5 because this, in many senses, is the most important part of the bill. It is the part of the bill that actually describes what our national flag does. What it says in section 5(2) is: \u201CThe New Zealand Flag is the symbol of the Realm, Government, and people of New Zealand.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI do not think there is anybody in this debate who does not think that the flag is an important symbol of our country. I know that for my father\u2019s generation it was the flag that they fought under and that their mates died under. For many contemporary New Zealanders, it is the flag that is flown\u2014I saw it fly, sadly, on Saturday night at the Bledisloe Cup and, much more happily, in terms of the Silver Ferns\u2014and it is a symbol of a country that people are really proud of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIf it is the symbol of the people of the nation, it makes sense that the people of the nation should have the power to change the flag, and not 121 elected representatives. So in one sense I support the process that not Parliament but the people make the decision, but there are things in the way that this is being done that have undermined the consensus that is necessary in order to maintain a flag that is widely agreed to by the people of this country as representing their independence, their sovereignty, and their pride in the nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI think that what the purpose of the flag is, as set out in section 5(2), is undermined by the process that we have actually taken. The first thing that any Government that was contemplating changing the flag should have done was try to work across parties so there was a consensus around the process by all the parties in this country, and, clearly, that has not happened. That has undermined the credibility of what we are trying to do in the Committee today. It is the Government\u2019s failure in that regard that disappoints many of us who would contemplate a change in our flag. I do not think I have any more right than any other New Zealander to determine what the symbol of our people should be, but I personally would like to see a change in the flag. But what the Government has done has undermined the consensus by which an appropriate way of changing the flag might have been adopted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EYou see, by holding two referenda that are outside an election, you are likely, on best estimates, to get maybe a 30 or 40 percent turnout. You cannot change the symbol of the realm and the symbol of the people on a turnout in a postal referendum that maybe only a third of the people will vote in. So my question to the Minister is: why not hold this referendum at the time of a general election, when you will get an 80 percent turnout, and then the result will have some credibility about what New Zealanders want as the symbol of the realm and a symbol of us as New Zealanders? That is the way that this process should have been followed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe other thing when you are talking about the symbol of the realm\u2014and the bill goes on to talk about the symbol of us overseas. The last thing, surely, that a Government wanting to follow proper process would do is introduce a bill to change the flag on the eve of the centenary of the start of World War I, when so many of our surviving veterans, not from the First World War but the second one, are focused on the flag that they fought under. You would almost think that the Government has deliberately undermined its own intent of wanting a change of the flag and wanting New Zealanders as a whole to accept an alternative as the symbol of our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ESo the timing was awful, the process was appalling, and the lack of bipartisanship or cross-party support has been appalling. One of the reasons for this, I have got to say, is that the Prime Minister has talked about this change, not as a change by New Zealanders of their flag, but as a matter of his pride and his project. During the question time we have just had, he quoted Mike Hosking. He said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022937529eb4ea6459d946d23ecdd1fa3f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022937529eb4ea6459d946d23ecdd1fa3f4\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak to Part 3 of the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill. I do think there is a strange irony or tension in, I think it is, the changes to section 5(2) and (3) in clause 69(4). I will read it out, as my colleague Phil Goff did, because I think section 5(2) and (3) really does talk about the significance of the flag to our nation. Section 5 says: \u201C(2) The New Zealand flag is the symbol of the Realm, Government, and people of New Zealand. (3) The New Zealand flag\u2014(a) is the national flag of New Zealand for general use on land within New Zealand and, where appropriate for international purposes, overseas; and (b) is the proper national colours to be worn by all New Zealand Government ships,\u201D. So that sets out just how significant the current flag and any possible new flag may be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EBut the select committee process that this bill went through treated the submitters as though they were insignificant. I believe that there were close to 750 submissions from people who did not get the chance to make a submission in person at all. Those who did submit got 5 minutes on an issue of such national significance. I believe the only organisation that did get more than 5 minutes was the Returned and Services\u2019 Association, and I think that is appropriate that it did get more, but you would think it would have got more than 10 minutes for something that is of such huge significance to this nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere is also something within this section that talks of the significance of the timing of this. We have just come back from a 1-week adjournment. I did not have anyone knocking down my electorate office door saying: \u201CKris, can you please make sure that we change the flag.\u201D I had a lot of people come to me to talk about domestic violence, and I had a lot of people come to me to talk about housing and about making sure they have jobs, but no one came and knocked down the door to ask us to change the flag. In fact, the Government turned away as many people at the select committee process as the number of those who actually attended all the meetings right around the country to say: \u201CThis is a good idea.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis is a significant issue, and I think that section 5, inserted in clause 69(4), does talk about the significance of what we are doing. But it is clear to see from the lack of uptake with the Government process, with its engagement with meetings, and that cost a hell of a lot of money\u2014I think a lot of the feedback that the Government would have got at the select committee process that it turned away would have been negative about this change. The general feeling amongst the community\u2014I think it was the New Zealand Herald that said that 70 percent of New Zealanders do not want this change and that this is the wrong thing to do right now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EA lot has been made about the cost that is involved with this\u2014$26 million is not chump change. There are plenty of other things that this Parliament could do with $26 million rather doing than something that New Zealanders do not want done right now. There may be a time and a place to change the flag, but it is not right now. My personal feeling is that I do not want to change the flag. I have changed my mind on the flag. When I was young, I said: \u201CYes, let\u2019s have a new flag.\u201D In fact, over time I have become much more aware\u2014becoming a bit more mature and having travelled overseas\u2014of the significance of the New Zealand flag. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWe can talk later when we come to schedules 1, 2, and 3 about the process the Government is using to ask the questions of the public, which is a bit skew-whiff, about changing our flag, because it has got that round the wrong way, but right now New Zealanders do not want this. Section 5, which is inserted by clause 69(4) of this bill, shows just how significant what we are doing is. It is not just a symbol that we throw away; it will go on the arms of people who will fight for this nation. So if we are going to do it, let us do it because the people want it changed, and they choose what they want to choose. And if they do not want to change the flag right now, then let us not do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EBut we are not even asking that question first. We are asking what you would like if the flag were to change. I do not think that any kind of sane person would use that process. Any person outside this Chamber would think that that is arse about face. We want to know, first, whether you want to change the flag, not what do we want to change it to if we get the chance to change it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bac3e1eba9c14ee7841649dcda3a474f\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Yet again we have a member straying far into a version of irrelevancy. I would point out that under Speakers\u2019 ruling 86/1, there is no reason why I cannot draw that to your attention, and I do so now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227444cde450ea40a780a72651cda9d22b\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: This was raised by our senior whip earlier. It is not the role of the National Government senior whip to point out the relevance of our speeches, and we trust, Mr Chair, that you will use your discretion and advise us if you think there are any problems with relevance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b565ecbbe0c2462bbe1e75ecb6eb7861\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking further to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec4e31f98ba94fdc91daee0967ac3521\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: I do not need to continue taking points of order. If there was to be some spat over who can raise what when, take it somewhere else. Do not soak up time in the Committee, because it undermines the point of order that the member is making that the Committee should not muck around with this particular line of debate. The member has the floor and I invite him to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225667d3d5852e467082ef501ee8b99c19\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I go back, for the benefit of the senior Government whip, to clause 69(4), which is about the significance of the decision that we are putting in train. This is not something that we want to do just because the Government wants to do it. It is of significance. It is a symbol of this realm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u002233d3ba10202f48c6abe230a4a447183a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233d3ba10202f48c6abe230a4a447183a\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce33a3ef938848918681af6035ed09f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce33a3ef938848918681af6035ed09f9\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to talk about section 5A(1) in clause 69. What it actually says is that the \u201C1902 Flag\u201D\u2014what they are calling the current New Zealand flag is the \u201C1902 Flag\u201D\u2014\u201Cis recognised as a flag of historical significance to the Realm,\u201D. I do not know why the word \u201Chistorical\u201D is in there. It seems that by legislation we are already consigning the current flag to the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ERemove that word, I would suggest, because this flag is still of huge significance to a whole lot of New Zealanders and a whole lot of New Zealand groups. As has been mentioned, those from the RSA in particular are affronted that this flag has already been consigned to historical significance. It is of huge current significance to the people of New Zealand. There is no doubt about that whatsoever. In fact, I think that for the first time ever I disagree with Mr Goff on something. I actually like the current flag. I would like it to remain. But when Mr Goff talked about the fact that this was not put at a referendum in a general election\u2014actually, this was highlighted in the regulatory impact statement. The regulatory impact statement actually said that one of the main risks around this is that there will be disengagement. The way to really get engagement from Kiwis is to have this at a general election, but we are not going to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe other point I would like to make is in respect of section 5A(2). It says: \u201CAny person or body (other than a government department) may use the 1902 Flag, except where required by law to use the New Zealand Flag or another specified flag for a particular purpose.\u201D I would have thought that if the Prime Minister was spending so much political capital on this\u2014and he is, according to the polls, because the vast majority of New Zealanders do think this is mistimed and is a huge waste of money, considering all the issues we have got\u2014then this legislation would actually be very, very clear that the New Zealand flag must be flown at all times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EPart of the reason, we are told, that we need a new flag is that there is confusion between the New Zealand flag and the Australian flag. Well, what this legislation actually does is nothing to alleviate that confusion at all. In fact, what it does do is it adds to the confusion, because this legislation says that anyone apart from a Government department may fly the New Zealand flag. This gives them a legitimate right to fly the New Zealand flag at any time. It does say: \u201Cexcept where required by law to use the New Zealand Flag or another specified flag for a particular purpose.\u201D I am not too sure what the definition of \u201Ca particular purpose.\u201D is. I can make some assumptions, but I have absolutely no idea what the definition of \u201Ca particular purpose.\u201D is. So this just creates a whole other level of confusion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn section 5A(7)(d) it talks about \u201Cthe days or occasions on which and the times during which the 1902 Flag, or any other flag of historical or national significance, may be flown:\u201D. Again, I have looked through the schedules and I could not find a list of days that this section relates to. I would love the Minister in the chair to stand up and just let us know. Is it all statutory holidays? Is it every Sunday? Is it only Anzac Day? Is it a day when people are allowed to wear their relatives\u2019 or ancestors\u2019 medals? I am not sure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe main aim of alleviating confusion about our national identity seems to have been taken away by this legislation, because this legislation legitimises the right of every New Zealander to fly the 1902 flag. I think that what we will find, probably as an element of protest, is that there will be more New Zealand flags\u2014i.e., the 1902 flag, the current flag, the one on my lapel\u2014flown around this country than we have seen for a generation, as people say: \u201CI reject this whole process. I reject the fact that the Government is spending money at this point in time on a worthless cause when there are so many more important issues that we could be spending $25 million on. We will go out there and we\u2019re going to fly that New Zealand flag.\u201D In fact, at my house in Napier I have a 100-year-old kauri flagpole, and the flag that flies from that pole will be the 1902 flag. It is at the moment and it will be, going forward. My house is not a Government department, so according to this legislation I am allowed to fly that flag whenever I want to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut the other thing is that anyone can fly that flag\u2014a Government department, a Government ministry can. In fact, the confusion that will be created by this is something that I think is a real anomaly in this legislation, and I would have liked to see it disappear. I would have liked to see the Government have the courage of its convictions. If it is spending this amount of political capital, then be clear. You fly the New Zealand flag or you do not. This bill says you can do whatever you want, except on a couple of occasions, and we have absolutely no idea of what they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022036672e6906c489687ce7e0da52ac1b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022036672e6906c489687ce7e0da52ac1b0\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022204da9bdc7654abcbfa08c8800613fbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022204da9bdc7654abcbfa08c8800613fbd\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I wanted to ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Nick Smith, about how he interprets parts of new section 5A in clause 69. When I read parts of that new section I get a little bit confused about what it is actually trying to achieve, because we have in new section 5A(2): \u201CAny person or body (other than a government department) may use the 1902 Flag, except where required by law\u201D\u2014except where required by law\u2014\u201Cto use the New Zealand Flag or another specified flag for a particular purpose.\u201D Then I go down to subclause (8), which creates new sections 10(2) and (3) in the Act. It says: \u201CThe Minister may, either in any notice issued under subsection (1) or otherwise, set out for general information and guidance rules of conduct and the etiquette to be followed in the flying or other use of any of the following: (a) the New Zealand Flag: (b) the 1902 Flag:\u201D. But then new section 10(3) says: \u201CAny rules set out under subsection (2) do not have the force of law.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ESo we have in one provision reference to \u201Cexcept where required by law\u201D, and then further on we have a provision that empowers the Minister to set out rules of conduct and etiquette to be followed in regulations. However, the rules do not have the force of law. So I am a little bit confused about how we interpret the words \u201Cexcept where required by law\u201D in new section 5A(2), and the other provisions to which I have referred. I actually think that if anybody was to read this legislation, they would not know whether or not, really, they were actually allowed to use the 1902 flag or not, with or without regulations, or whether or not they had the force of law for the purposes of new section 5A(2) or not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ESo I think there needs to be some answer given to how we should look at all of this, and, in particular, think about people who would look at this legislation and say: \u201COK, maybe we have a new flag. I hope there is not, but maybe there is a new flag\u2014one of those gormless symbols that we saw in a list the other day. Maybe there is one of those, but am I still entitled to fly this current flag or not?\u201D If you look at all of that legislation, I think you would be pretty hard-pressed to know what position you were in with regard to that\u2014I really do. I think that needs to be answered and the position clarified, and if it cannot be clarified, then the bill should not proceed, because it is just not clear enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002213215218150f46dabfe23bba233588bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213215218150f46dabfe23bba233588bb\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223946460b494e4378944f4047b9c7a7c8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221e90080e20df4467a9c740b62d8f5d18\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222dedc400a8fc4911a8e59f6f00100b30\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022602463b2d4d6428a929290caae57cf06\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002296c7d348b045446991f713ee7860de6b\u0022\u003ESchedule 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d2e44b11982f454cab6c20ca302d614e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d9608b2f8e64dfc9f13fb77e6cfc400\u0022\u003ESchedule 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002202d44829935c45eba8e142aad29c4b71\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022817d90da00334d83a3e28dacf8df0f22\u0022\u003ESchedule 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227ff45c8b60434da09f4fa59daa5bc283\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002231bdf63d7cb84ab398bb8aaae969f397\u0022\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c6e6a16916624c4e9edb1775711b9c03\u0022\u003ESchedule 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227583d4887efa4c52a190dce23b4ee355\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 5 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 5 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022486fecbbc72b48b29a9f53cb7e6e240a\u0022\u003EClause 1  Title\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022260f00570b644ffbbd98ce18dda8627d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022260f00570b644ffbbd98ce18dda8627d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take a call, I would just like to point out to members that those in the Chamber and those listening at home will no doubt be able to recite, in this very wide-ranging debate around clauses 1 and 2, virtually every point that has been made so far in the course of the debate. It is also important to note that repetition is a trigger for the Chair to call the end of a person\u2019s call. So I encourage people to be interesting and creative in their debates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00222d12903566b84863b35b0c38b8f7c922\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d12903566b84863b35b0c38b8f7c922\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Clause 1 is, indeed, the clause I wish to speak about, because this bill\u2019s title clearly is not appropriate, and this has not been referred to so far in the debate. It is not appropriate because it does not actually state what the bill is really about. It is not fundamentally about referendums\u2014and that is what the title says. It is actually about replacing New Zealand\u2019s historic and well-respected national flag. But the title does not refer to that at all. The current name reflects only the means, which are the referendums, and not the end, which is the replacement, or not, of the current flag with an alternative. And it is about the legislation that puts that into effect, because the most important part of the bill is the part that replaces the current flag with a new one, should that be the result of the two referendums. This is not reflected at all in the name of the bill, and so I am very disappointed in the name for that reason. It really should be changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ESome name such as, for example, \u201CNew Zealand Flag (Replacement With a Gormless, Meaningless, Modern Symbol) Bill\u201D would be a lot more relevant to this particular legislation than the name that has been given, for the reason that I gave. I have seen the long list of flags already published, and I do not think that my term \u201Cgormless, meaningless, modern symbol\u201D is entirely out of place when you look at those possible alternative flags. That name would be totally appropriate and much better than the name that this legislation has been given. That list is a patchwork of gaudy and ugly designs, and that needs to be referred to, and reflected in, the name of this bill. None of them even slightly represents New Zealand\u2019s heritage in any way like the current flag does. Another point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022908de9fdddae49c9a3b4ee93554517b7\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: How ridiculous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df33a5e91e2e46ff8321a6c6d5fd6012\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE\u003C/span\u003E: The member opposite says: \u201CHow ridiculous.\u201D But it is absolutely true. The current flag, this flag that I am holding, actually does represent New Zealand\u2019s heritage, and none of the rubbish\u2014absolute rubbish\u2014that I saw in that gaudy list could possibly compare to it on those grounds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EFurthermore, the title is not truly representative of the actual referendum process. The name would be better as something like the \u201CNew Zealand Flag (Gerrymandered, Back To Front) Referendum Bill\u201D, because that actually is what this bill is. It is not just the New Zealand flag referendum bill; it is a gerrymandered, back to front referendum bill, and therefore the name should say so. It is gerrymandered because of the fundamental flaw in the first referendum, which is that people wanting none of the alternatives have no way to vote in the first referendum, because the New Zealand flag is not there. So they can participate only by casting a vote with none of the options chosen\u2014just leaving the voting paper blank and putting it back into the ballot box, or perhaps writing across it: \u201CI want the current New Zealand flag.\u201D That would do it, because they are now currently disenfranchised from participating in the first flag referendum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EIf those people want none of the alternatives, how can they participate? They cannot. The only two ways that I know of that they could participate are by drawing a vote and then putting it back with nothing written on it, or by writing: \u201CI want the current New Zealand flag.\u201D on it. There is no provision in the first referendum allowing them to express their feelings. That is wrong, and that is why I say that it is gerrymandered and that that should be referred to, and reflected in, the title. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First does call on people to do one of those two things, because they have been disenfranchised. New Zealand First says to those people who want the current flag: \u201CGo along and vote, but don\u2019t choose any of the alternatives if you want the current flag, or write across it \u2018I want the current New Zealand flag.\u2019 \u201D I think that is a perfectly valid thing for them to do, and New Zealand First says that they should feel free to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcdfa1ae3d1a40e89cda3d59348d6859\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcdfa1ae3d1a40e89cda3d59348d6859\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Timing is everything and I suspect that if the Prime Minister had brought forward this idea at the start of his time as Prime Minister he might have carried the country with it. He could have used some of his popularity at the time to turn this into a positive experience and he could have used his influence to get the outcome that he wanted. But, of course, he was not willing to do that. He delayed 8 years and, of course, people see the somewhat cynical timing of the flag by then as being a flag of diversion\u2014a flag of convenience to take the eye of the public off more serious issues. Of course, that coincides with a downturn in the New Zealand economy and so perhaps people are more willing to think ill of this move to change the flag than they would have, had the Prime Minister used his political skill to bring this forward at an earlier time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI want to say why I agree at one level with the last speaker, Denis O\u2019Rourke, in terms of the name of this bill. It is called the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill, but in the first referendum there is nothing in it about the New Zealand flag. There is no option presented in the first referendum to answer the question as to whether you want the New Zealand flag to change or not, and that has been one of the main complaints that has been made by Opposition parties. It is not too complex. Most people can get their head around whether they want a change to the flag or not, and if that had been included in the first question, then the second referendum would have been stayed. If the majority did say that they wanted a change to the flag, you could proceed, but if the majority said that they did not, then you would not waste any more money on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5861100a85b45ea91971f64f23902b5\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Did this member support the policy he campaigned on last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a37f5d5f5e94a588ec0d768baf214c9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did. I did, but I also see this for what it is. It is something pulled out of the bottom drawer. You know, Paula Bennett\u2019s excuses or another bit of benefit-bashing or another attempt to blame criminals for every ill that we have in society\u2014those sorts of excuses were running thin, so the Government said: \u201COh, we\u2019ve got to pull another one out of the bottom drawer. How about we resurrect this old flag idea and bring it in.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EOf course, circumstances change. You know, Fonterra has responded to the circumstances changing in the dairy sector by making 500 people, or so, redundant and trying to cut its cloth. That is going to have flow-on effects for the Government\u2019s books. It is now unlikely it is going to make surplus, or its surplus will be smaller, and it is time that the Government responded to the effect that that will have upon its books as well. So that is why, responding to the interjection from the whip for the National Party, I say that it is appropriate that you cut your cloth, and when things are not going as well, you should not waste $26 million on a process that, obviously, is unpopular now anyway and is not going to succeed. Secondly, even if you are going to proceed, you should do it in the most cost-effective method possible, rather than have two referenda when one would have sufficed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe next point I would make is to ask why we are doing this through a special postal referendum. The cost of that will be higher than if it was just tacked on to another election. It does not seem to me to be an appropriate thing\u2014to go the more costly route. As my colleague the Hon Phil Goff has already said, because postal referenda have a lower turnout than a general election, you do not get the same mandate, if you like, either for change or for retention of the status quo, if that is the way people want to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EYou have heard that the Government members at the Justice and Electoral Committee blocked an amendment proposed by the Hon Trevor Mallard to try to fix this problem with the referendum, which has no question about the current flag in the first referendum. There is a rather barren question: if we were to change, which of these flags would you like? It would have been very simple to make that better by including the option of retaining the flag in the first referendum. That is described in the minority view of the Labour Party in the select committee report, which said that there is a balance to be struck in questioning\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1cdf6727db0435397e695af3f2bc86c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1cdf6727db0435397e695af3f2bc86c\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour\u2014Kelston):\u003C/span\u003E I want to start with the title of the bill and then I will go through to the commencement clause. But, firstly, I want to make the point that this bill should be renamed the \u201CTricky New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill\u201D. The reason I say that is\u2014and much discussion has been had about this\u2014that the order in which the questions have been asked in the two referendums is back to front. The first question that New Zealanders should have been asked is \u201CDo you want to change the flag?\u201D, but, instead, the first referendum that is being done is presenting New Zealanders with a range of options when they have not even had the option to say whether or not they want to change the flag. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis referendum is back to front and it is back to front because the Government has done that deliberately. It has its own agenda. It wants to change the flag. Government members do not really care whether New Zealanders want to change the flag; they want to change the flag. So to mitigate the chances of New Zealanders in the first referendum saying they do not want to change the flag\u2014like 70 percent of them did during a New Zealand Herald poll\u2014the Government twisted it round, turned it upside down, and provided only the option to choose between the current New Zealand flag and an alternative in the second referendum. It is back to front and it is tricky\u2014tricky like the National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI also want to say that the other name this bill could have that would be appropriate is the \u201CJohn Key\u2019s Vanity Project Bill\u201D. Let us be honest. This bill is not about New Zealand, it is not about progress, and it is not about being progressive. It is about John Key and the National Government wanting to have some sort of legacy when their term is over\u2014and it will be over. And because those members have achieved nothing else for New Zealand\u2014nothing else\u2014they are clutching at straws and they are asking what they can do. All they can think of is forcing New Zealand to change the flag so that in 20 years\u2019 time, if they were in the position where it worked, then they could say: \u201CWe were responsible for changing the flag. We were responsible for changing the flag.\u201D So that is an alternative title\u2014\u201CJohn Key\u2019s Vanity Project Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want to talk to the commencement side of this. What we have here in clause 2(3) is: \u201CIf, in the second flag referendum, the current New Zealand Flag gains a greater number of votes than the alternative flag design, then sections 69, 70, and 71 do not commence.\u201D So those sections would not commence at all. What I want to point out is that because of the back to front way in which these referendums are being done, we will have wasted millions of dollars in having public meetings that people did not turn up to and in collecting designs from people and putting them out there in the first referendum because of the fact that it says here: \u201CIf, in the second flag referendum, the current New Zealand Flag gains a greater number of votes than the alternative flag design, then sections 69, 70, and 71 do not commence.\u201D How many millions of dollars will we have wasted at that point?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI guarantee that there will be at least twice as many people participating in that second referendum as there will be in the first. There are so many New Zealanders out there who have already indicated not only that they do not necessarily want to change the flag but also some are saying that this is not the time to change the flag. Many are saying that given the pressures that this country is under, under that National Government, given the bad job that the National Government is doing, and given the other priorities that we have as a country, why would we waste $26 million on two referendums about a flag?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220ddd7d0576a4179abc39f99e73a4ece\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: Because we believe in democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022495418d2e5f34ecbbaee9984f91618b6\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Many New Zealanders are saying\u2014it is about democracy, Nicky Wagner said. She said that it is about democracy. If it was really about democracy, then the Government would have got the referendum round the right way and first asked New Zealanders: \u201CDo you want to change the flag?\u201D. But Nicky Wagner knows, as well as we know, that this is not about democracy; this is about the National Government and John Key and their vanity project. Nicky Wagner knows that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ELet us go back to alternative titles for the bill. Let us go back to alternative titles that really suit the mood of New Zealanders and the way they are feeling about this bill. We could call this the \u201CMoney That Could Be Better Spent Elsewhere Bill\u201D. Actually, where could we spend $26 million\u2014some worthwhile places that $26 million could go to? Perhaps it could go to the child poverty issue that we are facing as a country, which the Government has done nothing to address. Perhaps it could go to the housing crisis that the Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00228b26d6bb7660403e88f0dc74ae74c601\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b26d6bb7660403e88f0dc74ae74c601\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E We are a Government that does what we say and, what is more, we actually do what we say. What is extraordinary in the contributions I have heard from Labour members is that\u2014only 9 months ago they campaigned at the election saying they wanted to change the flag. They then come to this House less than 9 months later, and I hear speeches from Stuart Nash saying that he loves the New Zealand flag and that we should never propose to change the New Zealand flag. There is a very simple message to New Zealand from this debate: you cannot trust a word that Labour says to you during the election. Its message is that whatever it says in the election it will, regardless of principle, change its position as it suits itself. It lacks integrity, it is untrustworthy, and it is duplicitous, and that has been so heavily reinforced in this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThere have been questions about the process by which the two referendums will determine New Zealand\u2019s flag. It is interesting that I have gone back and checked the record and found that both the New Zealand First Party and the Labour Party absolutely supported the two-referendum process around the choice of MMP. At that time those parties said that it was the right process. They said that people cannot make a choice\u2014and I quote Winston Peters, who said: \u201CPeople can\u2019t make a choice about changing from first past the post unless they know the alternative.\u201D My question to New Zealand First members is how can people make an intelligent choice about changing the flag without knowing the alternative? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis bill, appropriately named the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill, is about National doing what it said it would do, unlike other parties, which are all over the paddock and which are duplicitous and untrustworthy, and that is why we should put this bill through this Committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u00220a7a12fba8384907a83ed305dd492a41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a7a12fba8384907a83ed305dd492a41\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It is great to be in a very engaging debate this afternoon, particularly with Mr Macindoe, who reminds me of a pit bull chewing a wasp, with his references to frustration. I look at his face and I understand the frustration that he feels, because the people back home\u2014the vast majority of New Zealanders\u2014feel exactly the same way about the nonsense that is going on in relation to this flag referendum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI have a great name for the bill, and it is better than everything I have heard so far. I think it is a name that should be seriously considered; in fact, it may even be worth putting in a Supplementary Order Paper. It has got to be called the \u201CClayton\u2019s Flag Referendum Bill\u201D, because this is the flag referendum you have got when you have not got a referendum. Let us be honest: the way we are doing this is absolutely back to front. This is about not asking the people of New Zealand: \u201CFirst and foremost, do you want a flag change\u2014yes or no?\u201D. The polls can do it. The newspapers can go out there and ask the question. We are largely hearing, from the rank and file New Zealanders, that they do not want this referendum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EWhat we are also hearing is that it is an absolute waste of money. This bill may be better called the \u201CWaste of Taxpayers\u2019 Money Flag Referendums Bill\u201D, because that is exactly what it is. Putting $26 million into a flag referendum is an absolute waste of time, dialogue, and money, because the vast majority of New Zealanders do not want it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262e7af0f06274cc5a5c0071c49672063\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Two main parties promised it at the last election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223235248f51b7465c92e351ba58bc89c5\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: We have got New Zealanders out there with faces like twisted sandshoes in frustration with the Government, because it will not stand up and listen to them, Mr Macindoe\u2014and you are one of those people not listening. Anyway, he is giving a lot of this and not a lot of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI have to say that the amount of money that $26 million takes up would be around about 10 percent towards a better ferry system for those commuters travelling from Wellington across to Picton. Ten percent\u2014that is a hefty deposit for a new, reliable interisland ferry transportation system, for example. What $26 million would do is upgrade around about 900 houses in our underfunded social housing stock around the country, and yet this Government says we cannot afford to do all of these things\u2014we have got no money for it. Yet it can find $26 million, pull it out of its pocket, and throw it on the table. It is absolutely disgusting. It is a disgrace that we are allowing ourselves to get into this debate because we have got a legacy that this Government wants to leave behind, particularly what John Key wants to say he delivered for this country. We are seeing a lot of depression, and we are seeing a lot of frustration out there from people in small businesses, and it is costing New Zealanders not only in their well-being and their mental state but in their pockets as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThis is nothing but a vanity fair. If this Government were serious about putting a referendum forward it would first and foremost ask the question: \u201CDo you want it?\u201D. If the answer was yes, then we could go into the whole discussion about which one of these flags the public would like to see put forward. The flags that I have seen today and the comments that I am hearing on social media and seeing in the newspaper are a disgrace. It is a debacle. With an open mind I cannot see one of those flags jumping out and me saying: \u201CWell, being objective, that might work.\u201D They just do not work. I would like to go back to this one, Gareth Morgan\u2019s winning flag. That makes a little bit of sense. You have got Labour on the left, National on the right, and you have got New Zealand First in black and white coming up through the middle and separating them. That is exactly what is going to happen. The polls will show it. They are starting to tell it now. This Government is getting concerned about the movement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EMr Macindoe, you were saying that New Zealand First has supported this in the past. We have not supported it. We have been dead against it. We have not been standing up there saying: \u201CLet us have a referendum.\u201D prior to now. We have been the only party standing fast on our position of leaving New Zealand\u2019s flag as it is and not wasting taxpayers\u2019 money. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022418ea409f57c4a47b803abae93ddcac1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022418ea409f57c4a47b803abae93ddcac1\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Before I address the matters to do with the title that I had already planned to address, I would just like to respond to both the Minister in the chair and some of the irate and frustrated interjections from the senior Government whip. First, about the matter of what exactly Labour\u2019s policy on this is\u2014the National Government is always quite obsessed with Labour\u2019s policy. It never wants to talk about its own policy, but it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fb61eb605e3490d85b9d4d79ff4bb40\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Because we read it and we thought you meant it. You can\u2019t rewrite it. It\u2019s there\u2014it\u2019s there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223eddd381d52643f583f71e0bd6aa3ac1\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Calm down, Tim. Tim, chill out and I will tell you\u2014just be cool. Certainly, Labour\u2019s policy at the election was to have a referendum on the flag, but we did not say that we would do it when the country was $101 billion in debt. We did not say that we would prioritise it over trying to get the country back into surplus. So when New Zealanders spoke out loudly and said that this was an interesting debate but not a thing to blow $26 million on when we are deep in debt and we are not in surplus, I tell you that we would have listened to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b08db8ea42945e4b6cc3e37eec0ce8b\u0022\u003EJono Naylor\u003C/span\u003E: Read us the first line of the policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d936932094974135aeb9879090f9f913\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: We would have listened, Mr Naylor. Just calm down and listen to me. We would have listened to that and we would have introduced the referendum at a time that was appropriate. The other strange thing that Nick Smith, the Minister in the chair, did was he compared this process with the MMP referendum. That is actually quite a good comparison to make, except that the Minister got it wrong when he made the comparison, because the first question in the MMP referendum was: \u201CDo you want to change the voting system?\u201D. And we agree that that would be the way to go\u2014question No. 1: \u201CDo you want to change the flag?\u201D. That was not the point that Nick Smith, the Minister in the chair, was trying to make, but we actually agree. Yes, use a process analogous to the two-referendum process that was used for the shift from first past the post to MMP. Question No. 1: \u201CDo you want to change?\u201D. That would be the place to start with the referendum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EJust so that Tim Macindoe and co. can relax for a second, I would like to talk about something that I hope is not too contentious. In the bill\u2014the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill\u2014we have this interesting thing, the word \u201Creferendums\u201D. That word has caused a bit of consternation and quite a bit of confusion. In fact, one of the members opposite who was on the Justice and Electoral Committee actually interjected on one of the members on this side, saying that it was \u201Creferenda\u201D, not \u201Creferendums\u201D. I was a little bit concerned about that, because if a member was on the select committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a9fa7e7a89f441ba14c50a9b8aa8438\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: The interjections say we believe that the time has come for a change and it is right for the issue to be put to the public. That\u2019s your policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233ca142f439041c7a1c7bea7f38bffd4\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Tim, chill out. If a member on the select committee is scrutinising the bill closely, then he should know what the title of the bill is. If he was listening to the submissions and was actually paying attention in the select committee hearings, he should know what the title of the bill is, and the title of the bill is the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill. I must admit that when I first saw that, I thought: \u201CThat doesn\u2019t sound right to me. I would have thought it should be \u2018referenda\u2019.\u201D So, just like the member opposite, I was a bit confused about that, but I have looked it up, and it turns out that, actually, there is a really legitimate reason why the title has the word \u201Creferendums\u201D in it, not the word \u201Creferenda\u201D. It turns out that this is all a matter of going back to the origin of the word \u201Creferendum\u201D, which comes from Latin. My Latin pronunciation is a bit rusty, but I think it is the verb \u201Creferre\u201D, meaning \u201Cto refer\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8a2242801ab4ee5b58dfd3ed6262b1e\u0022\u003EScott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: A good King\u2019s education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f10959f83a3430c817b14a7d6c21cce\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, actually, I did do Latin in the third form at King\u2019s College, but it was a long time ago and I cannot recall exactly how the pronunciation goes. Anyway, the first problem is that this is a verb\u2014this is a verb, not a noun. So that is why. What has happened is that we have anglicised a Latin verb. The word \u201Creferendum\u201D did not start to be used until relatively recently. In the old days, the word was \u201Cplebiscite\u201D, which is also derived from Latin, based on the word \u201Cplebiscita\u201D, which comes from the Roman-era word \u201Cplebeian\u201D, meaning \u201Ccommoner\u201D. In fact, the Concilium Plebis\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca05e439e2cd4a4d8e82979dcbf6dd8d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Is this really related?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022388851c236d84f9bbe0c8b64a73c2eb6\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014was the Roman Parliament. It was the house of the common people. This is to do with the derivation of the word \u201Creferendums\u201D, which is a word that is in the title of the bill, and we are debating the title of the bill. It was only in the mid-19th century that the word \u201Creferendum\u201D, which is a derivation of that Latin verb, came to be used, and it is because of the fact that it is a verb and not a noun\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4264c02848c4aa29aa510a2b84de218\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4264c02848c4aa29aa510a2b84de218\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100, t\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Heamana o te Komiti o te Whare nei, t\u0113nei te mihi atu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[So thank you, Mr Chairperson of the Committee of the whole House, I greet you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI think the title of this bill ought to be the \u201CChange the New Zealand Flag and Related Matters Bill\u201D, and I say that because there are many related matters within this bill that have not yet been spoken about. In particular, I want to mihi out to all the millions of New Zealanders who actually carry a flag around with them every single day. I am one of them, and I bet that there are many in this Chamber who are too. This is a New Zealand driver\u2019s licence. It has the New Zealand flag on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EWithin this bill, in clause 70, the driver\u2019s licence is one of the related matters, and that is why I say that the title ought to represent what is actually in the bill. It is not just about referenda; it is also about related matters. One of those related matters, of course, is changing the legislation so that the flag that appears on your New Zealand driver\u2019s licence can be changed. If the New Zealand public decides that we will change the flag, then there will be a 6-month period when you can have one or the other. My point, in speaking to the title, is that it should accurately reflect what is in the bill, and I do not think that the current title, the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill, is sufficient to describe the totality of what is in this bill. The bill has many other things, and that is why the \u201CChange the New Zealand Flag and Related Matters Bill\u201D ought to be its title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI think also that in respect of the commencement there have been many interesting points made. My point about the commencement is that we should make it at the next general election. That is because it will be more inclusive of the wider New Zealand public, and I will tell you why. Only 65 percent of M\u0101ori in my electorate voted. That probably reflects a systemic problem within wider New Zealand. However, it is important that everyone\u2019s view is reflected within the first referendum regardless of all of its faults, and they are many and they have been well canvassed in this debate. So I want to put my hand up to say that that is not good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI reflect on another point that was made in this debate, and that is that if only 30 percent of people turn up for this vote, then I think we could do some urgent legislation, put it through the House, and cancel the final vote\u2014cancel it altogether. If there is such a low turnout\u2014and I suspect there will be\u2014and if it is less than 40 percent, really\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250b024a472c1462ebc9906b603359c4b\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. This is the title and commencement debate, and this member has not addressed either of those at any stage of his contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022962fdcce8dcf485f9e15ca27a77a136f\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022010818192fc24c33bac95c6229ac432d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: I do not need any further instruction. Adrian Rurawhe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be96822cbcec4c3088d03b8df6e8d447\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. I think the point around the commencement is that it ought not to be as it is drafted in this bill. It ought to commence to coincide with the next general election. That would be a lot more democratic, and if we are talking about democracy and what is right\u2014and I have heard that word used in this Chamber in this debate by one of the members opposite. He is sitting there right now, actually, saying this is about democracy. Well, if it is about democracy, then make it available to all people at the next general election. An alternative is that maybe we could call it the \u201CT\u012Bnihia te Haki Bill\u201D [\u201CChange the Flag Bill\u201D]. Two weeks ago we had M\u0101ori Language Week, but I am going for a month. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022afcb92fa1b04473a87e5e8775fce6473\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afcb92fa1b04473a87e5e8775fce6473\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to talk on the title and commencement clauses of the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill. I take great pride in being creative sometimes, as you requested, Mr Chair, at the beginning of this debate on the name of this bill. This particular bill, with the title of the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill, is one that I am not going to propose any amendment to, because I believe it is appropriate. Having two referendums is the mechanism that this Government has chosen to start the process of changing the New Zealand flag. But I believe that the referendums and the way that they are being sequenced is symbolic of the way that the Government has got this whole process for the changing of our flag, the timing of it, and the cost of changing our flag absolutely and utterly wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI believe that the bill is aptly named, but I do have an issue with the referendums themselves. The bill, helpfully in schedule 1, points out the options, or the questions, that the New Zealand public will have. I am holding here, from the bill itself, a copy of roughly what New Zealanders will be asked. The first question is: \u201CIf\u201D\u2014if\u2014\u201Cthe New Zealand flag changes, which flag would you prefer?\u201D. New Zealanders are given four options, on which they will put their preference. So the question is: \u201CWhat would you prefer if\u201D\u2014if\u2014\u201Cthe flag is changed?\u201D. That is the first question that New Zealanders will be asked: if it changes, what would you prefer it to change to? Schedule 2 points to the question that we on this side of the House believe should be asked first, and that is: \u201CWhat is your choice for the New Zealand flag? Would you want it to stay the same or would you like to have something different, which you have been asked for in the first referendum of the referendums that are being held here?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere is a lot of heat in this debate, or in these potential referendums, because it is a flag. So let us take that out and just say that we are choosing a car. If you wanted a new car or if you were being asked whether you wanted a new car, would you first ask the question \u201CWhich car would you want?\u201D, or would you ask \u201CDo I need a new car?\u201D. Any logical, sane person out there would ask the first question, \u201CDo I need a new car?\u201D, before asking \u201CWhich car would I like?\u201D. That is the simple stupidity of the sequence of these two referendums that are being proposed in this bill. The second question should be asked first\u2014\u201CDo I want a new car?\u201D\u2014and the first question should be asked second: \u201CIf I want a new car, which car would I prefer?\u201D. You should be asked whether you prefer the car that you have got now\u2014the status quo\u2014or whether you would prefer, potentially, four other new cars that are being offered up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIn any other logical situation, that is the way you would do it, but not here in the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill. I think that points out for everyone at home the simple yet elegant stupidity of this piece of legislation. Not only do people not want our flag to change right now\u2014not right now\u2014they do not want $26 million to be spent on this. This referendum is just plain-out stupid. It is asking the second question first and the first question second. That is why this piece of legislation should not pass. If the Government really wants to have a meaningful process around changing a flag of significance to every New Zealander, let us get it right. Let us not have this mickey mouse process that people have not bought into. Only 700 people turned out to the flag referendum meetings right around the country. It has cost us millions of dollars already. The Government turned away from the select committee process over 700 people whom it blatantly, obviously did not want to hear from because they would have said the same thing that we have said too, which is we want to change the flag at some stage, but not right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe cost is wrong\u2014$26 million. It is not what we need right now. The question is wrong. The timing is wrong. So if you are going to have referendums, do not ask the second question first; ask the first question first. Ask whether you want to change the flag first, and if the country says yes, then we will buy that. But at the moment the country says no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b05355d8161f41f5afa78c312fb96520\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b05355d8161f41f5afa78c312fb96520\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chairperson. Thank you very much for the opportunity to contribute to the title and commencement debate for the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill. I have been thinking quite seriously about what the title of this bill should be, based on how this bill has appeared before us here in Parliament today. Actually, I would like to quote from one of the designers, a guy called Pax Zwanikken. He is a Kiwi who lives in Sydney. He contributed 25 designs, and two of his designs actually got through. So he has been shortlisted in terms of the 40 flags that have been shortlisted. What he said, which I find really interesting, is that he does not hold much hope for the flag change being supported\u2014it does not matter what kind of flag\u2014because, from his perspective, this has not come out of a groundswell of public desire for a new flag. So from his perspective, the title of the bill should be the \u201CNo Public Desire For a New Flag Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe reason I want to highlight that point is that if you actually go back and look over time at the call for change and whether or not the New Zealand public has wanted change, we can go back to 1973, when there was a poll. Of New Zealanders in 1973, 75 percent of them said no, they did not want to change the flag. So I acknowledge that this conversation has been around for a long time. Then, again, in 1984, 86 percent of New Zealanders said no when they were asked whether they wanted to change the flag. In 1999, 64 percent said no. In 2008, 62 percent said no. In 2011, 72 percent said no. Actually, the latest poll shows that 70 percent of New Zealanders are saying no, they do not want to change the flag. So that particular quote from Pax is actually incredibly relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI think the other title that this bill could have had was actually published on 30 January 2014. It was a heading by Isaac Davison, actually. It could have been the \u201CKeep It Or Flag It Bill\u201D. That was his report after John Key actually announced this idea about changing New Zealand\u2019s flag\u2014he had this brainstorm: \u201CLet\u2019s change New Zealand\u2019s flag.\u201D So, actually, the title of this bill could be the \u201CKeep It Or Flag It Bill\u201D because of what the Prime Minister thought on 29 January 2014\u2014\u201CLet\u2019s change the flag.\u201D Actually, we could look at the National Party website. We could call this bill the \u201CPM John Key Believes It\u2019s the Right Time to Change the Flag Bill\u201D, which is what the National Party promoted and has been promoting. This bill\u2014let us get real\u2014has come about because the Prime Minister had this brainstorm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EBut a title that I think is really interesting\u2014and this was actually part of the open letter that the flag review panel put out itself\u2014is the \u201COpen Call, No Criteria New Zealand Flag Bill\u201D. What I find really interesting is that we got 10,292 submissions\u2014new designs, where people decided that they would participate in this process, some of them from overseas\u2014but what we did not do, actually, was have a set of criteria for what the flag should represent. So we talk a lot\u2014and this bill has talked a lot\u2014about New Zealand\u2019s identity, but the reality is that that has not been part of the conversation at all. It was not in the criteria to make sure that our indigenous people were represented. There were no criteria to make sure that the Southern Cross was going to stay, because for us that is part of our national anthem. There was not a call to make sure that the koru was in the flag. In fact, there was not even a call to make sure that the silver fern was, even though the Prime Minister said, when he announced it on 29 January 2014, that we must ensure that the silver fern is in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ENow, apparently, this is all part of some tourism boost and some economic boost, because we are going to be recognised globally as a country because we are going to have this amazing new flag that represents our identity. So I find it really interesting that, actually, we did not do that. The call went out far and wide, and we did not care what people submitted, we did not care who they were, and we did not care about the context of their design. We just put out this open call. So that is why I think our title could be the \u201COpen Call, No Criteria New Zealand Flag Bill\u201D. It now seems that those criteria are actually really important, because we have picked flags that have got a koru, we have picked flags that have got the Southern Cross, and we have picked flags that actually represent New Zealand. So when you think about it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00224a0867c8f8574463a5630586a8612d28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a0867c8f8574463a5630586a8612d28\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E We have had a bit of conversation about the title, and my last contribution was on the title. I would like to move now to clause 2, the commencement. Actually, the commencement of this bill when it becomes an Act is probably one of the areas of most contention. This is all to do with the timing of the referendums. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EMy colleague the Hon Trevor Mallard has offered an amendment that would amend clause 2(1) so that it reads: \u201CThis Act (except sections 69, 70, and 71) comes into force five years after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u201D I guess 5 years is somewhat arbitrary, because you cannot put things in a commencement clause like \u201Cwhen the Government can run a surplus\u201D or \u201Cwhen we do not have $101 billion worth of debt\u201D or \u201Cwhen we can get the cost of running these referendums down\u201D. So I guess what Mr Mallard is attempting to do here is to project into the future and make a couple of assumptions. One, and I think it is an important one, is that we will have a Labour Government, because that leads to the second one, which is that we will actually have some decent economic management and we will have a fair chance of the Government heading back towards being in the black again and being in a position where people might see holding a referendum, or two referendums, on changing the flag as something that is more relevant and a more appropriate use of the money that is needed to run those referendums. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThese things do cost money. Democracy costs money. I appreciate that the Government has proposed a democratic approach to this. We have some questions over the order of the referendums, but at least it is being done by referendum, not by fiat, and that costs money. But we really do question whether this Act should be commencing, should be coming into force, on the day after it receives the Royal assent, which is what clause 2(1) provides for, or whether it should be put off to a date in the future when the Government\u2019s books might be in a better state, and in a state where this could be more of a priority. This is what a lot of the opposition to the Government\u2019s process comes down to: when exactly the legislation should come into force. I do not actually think most members of the public would be too concerned about the fact that we are debating this legislation now. They might have a view that there are other, more pressing, issues to be debating in public, but the debate now is not as big a problem as holding the referendums this year and next year. So I support Trevor Mallard\u2019s amendment to clause 2(1) because I think, arbitrary as it is, 5 years from now is probably a more appropriate point in time for us to have those referendums and the expenditure that comes with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThere are some other aspects to the commencement clause that are certainly appropriate for this legislation, but they are somewhat unusual. There are various sections of the legislation that may or may not commence, and, of course, this relates to what the result may be of the second referendum. Obviously the first referendum has no bearing on the commencement of any of the clauses in this legislation because whatever happens there will be two referendums, with all the costs that come with that. But the second referendum does have a bearing on whether or not certain parts of this legislation do actually commence, and those parts are clauses 69, 70, and 71. Of course, those clauses would not need to commence in the event that the public voted to retain the current flag. Another interesting matter with the commencement of clauses 69, 70, and 71 is that there are two triggers for the commencement of those clauses, which is a little bit unusual in legislation as well. The first trigger\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd50f866acdb41dda6c153502e169875\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd50f866acdb41dda6c153502e169875\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (Third Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022247c2ec752994578ae3df2af3e4c19ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022247c2ec752994578ae3df2af3e4c19ab\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have listened to a number of contributions in respect of clauses 1 and 2, the title and commencement clauses of this bill. I want to propose, perhaps, a different title that more aptly deals with the content and the fiscal issues associated with this bill. I think it is very apt to be called \u201CThe $26 Million Bill\u201D. If you look at the document, it has got a bit of weight to it. I am not sure how much paper is going for, per pound or per kilogram, in the international price, but given the relevance of the figure $26 million, which I will explain in a moment\u2014I know other colleagues have\u2014I think it may well be relevant, as the bill is in the name of the Minister of Finance, the Hon Bill English, to call this bill \u201CThe $26 Million Flag Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThat is what it has cost the taxpayer, budgeted to date\u2014$26 million\u2014to conduct this exercise, which opinion poll after opinion poll suggests no one wants. It has not only been opinion poll after opinion poll, but given that so very few people, some 700 people, turned out to the public meetings on the flag consideration project\u2014these meetings cost $208,500 for venues and a further $200,000 for panel members and fees and whatnot. There must have been some very good scones and sausage rolls, or whatever, at these meetings. The average cost per person who turned up was $550 each, or $2,300 each once advertising is included. So in terms of the title, this whole exercise is estimated to have cost $26 million. In respect of this it is very apt and the Government should be upfront and call it what it is. It is a $26 million waste of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand public have demonstrated through opinion polls and by their turnout\u2014some 700-odd people\u2014that they do not see this as a priority. I suspect there are people who have turned out to those meetings who may want to see a change. There are thousands of others who may want to see a change indeed, but those people do not view this as a priority in their lives. They view health, education, their kids\u2019 welfare, and other things as a priority in their lives. I suspect, speaking again to clause 1, the title, that those people who did not show up to those meetings can probably think of 26 million reasons, to go along with a $26 million budget for this thing, as to how that money could be used in a better way. Or the title could perhaps be \u201CThe Prime Minister\u2019s Legacy Project That Has Cost New Zealanders $26 Million\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI put this to the Government. If it were serious about changing our constitutional arrangements about some of the lofty things that the Prime Minister and others have said, it may want to consider this. The Government has put the cart before the horse. Surely you would look at our true constitutional arrangements. Should we have a written constitution? Should there be a head of State who differs from the current one? Should that person be elected or appointed, or whatever? You would deal with all those heavyweight constitutional arrangements and work that through the community and bring the communities with us. And then the last thing\u2014with no disrespect to the flag, but probably the smallest component of true constitutional reform is to change the flag, which is one of the symbols of your country. People will be for and against that, but I think that is the heavyweight process, dealing with heavyweight issues, that leads\u2014if the Prime Minister were of a mind to look at that\u2014to a heavyweight debate and possibly a heavyweight legacy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut to have a bill that changes the flag, at a cost that is just incredible to most people\u2014you know, I have been to public meetings during election campaigns. Election campaigns generally are not that popular, where you have had\u2014and I am sure the Minister in the chair, the Hon Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, has had more people turn up to many of his meetings. In fact, there may be more people in his prisons\u2014and I suspect there are\u2014than the 700 people who turned up to the flag meetings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn terms of the name, it could be called \u201CThe Prime Minister\u2019s $26 Million Legacy Project Bill\u201D. It could be called \u201CThe $26 Million Flag Bill\u201D. It could be called a number of things. But I think what is going to be sad in this, because I suspect it will not get through\u2014not the bill, but the actual change, because people are just not for it\u2014is that lost in amongst all of this bunkum and the silly process, and a process that is about the Government\u2019s legacy, or the Prime Minister\u2019s legacy more than anything else, we actually lose the grit and the substance of the issue, which is a debate about our constitutional arrangements\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1ff0a2962534755a74f248c2c3acbf1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1ff0a2962534755a74f248c2c3acbf1\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move that the motion, the question, be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7bbd5a38ede4579b82ef14771ae7581\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7bbd5a38ede4579b82ef14771ae7581\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, you have got to get it right when you move closure motions. I will call Carmel Sepuloni in a moment. The member must go back to Standing Order 136 for the specific wording that you need to use\u2014nothing else; just focus on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd4b44a3b63a4fff9ffec2fde6f82636\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd4b44a3b63a4fff9ffec2fde6f82636\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour\u2014Kelston):\u003C/span\u003E I think that we have had some great alternative options offered today for the title of this bill. I do have some other alternative options, but I will discuss those later in my speech. I just want to talk about Part 3 of this bill in relation to the title and commencement clauses. I think that that is allowed at the Committee stage. In Part 3, what we have is two clauses that give quite wide powers to amend the process by Order in Council. These may be standard but they read as the Government being able to correct errors in the legislation without coming back to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESo I want to talk about that part in relation to this, because if the Government is going to have power, because of Part 3, to correct errors in the legislation without having to come back to the House, I want an answer from the Minister about what errors it is anticipating in this bill and about whether or not there are any anticipated problems or potential errors that may come out of the title or commencement provisions of the bill. In the commencement clause, for example, could there be an error in relation to, say, clause 2(2), which says: \u201CIf, in the second flag referendum, the alternative flag design gains a greater number of votes than the current New Zealand Flag, then sections 69, 70, and 71 commence on whichever of the following dates is earlier: (a) a date set by the Governor-General by Order in Council: (b) the day that is 6 months after the date on which the result of the second flag referendum is declared.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWith that in mind\u2014and we are talking about the date here, and also we are looking at the amendment put up by my colleague Trevor Mallard, who has asked to remove \u201Con the day\u201D and replace it with \u201C5 years\u201D\u2014does that mean that the Government could actually decide that that is an error and change the time frame without bringing the legislation back to the House? We are hoping, actually, that it will support the amendment in the Committee here today and that it will remove the wording \u201Con the day\u201D and replace it with the words \u201C5 years\u201D. That is the amendment put up by Trevor Mallard. Does that mean that if the Government does not support this amendment in the Committee, it could still do so later on, once it discovers the error of its ways, and that it has, in fact, got it wrong in terms of the time frames that it has put around implementing this bill? If the Minister could respond to that, it would be good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIn terms of what it says in Part 3 about the Government being able to correct errors without bringing the legislation back to the House, I wonder whether or not\u2014when the Government members leave the Chamber and if this does manage to happen in terms of a change of flag and if we proceed with the resulting Act, in terms of the rest of it\u2014the Government could then change the actual title of the bill later on without bringing it back to the House. Is that what it means in terms of Part 3 and how it applies to the title and commencement clauses of this bill? I have those questions for the Minister, and if he could respond, it would be greatly appreciated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u002224ae69e79f2a4463b6d8c8f4a32cee54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224ae69e79f2a4463b6d8c8f4a32cee54\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002292c0d51ea75f4ef0b60445cda7ce1cef\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 62\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225e178819d6204796b27eebfc31dbcbbd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 62\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002254af5bc45adf4b5fa3ada7eb2916af4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254af5bc45adf4b5fa3ada7eb2916af4b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just remind members that votes are taken in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 2 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003Ein subclause (2), replace \u201Con the day\u201D with \u201C5 years\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221e1f31b241854b5e919c954cbeb5ed61\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002289ce825b8e3048a0b78da96bd8261835\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 62\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000363\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aea2516240bb4c07a35ac91479e59874\u0022\u003EEstimates Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002244e5268ded484f6d95bef467f0993d83\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc46125ffc4242099df4d024ee424b52\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2015/16 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000367\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 30 July on the .\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c5566385d254f038dbec6476b435aaa\u0022\u003EJustice Sector (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00224b913ced011046dea5c33a5c7526c917\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b913ced011046dea5c33a5c7526c917\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now turn to the Appropriation (2015/16 Estimates) Bill. When we were last progressing the estimates debate, we were debating the votes in the justice sector\u2014volume B.5, volume 7\u2014Vote Attorney-General, Vote Corrections, Vote Courts, Vote Justice, Vote Parliamentary Counsel, Vote Police, and Vote Serious Fraud. David Clendon had the call, and he has 2 minutes and 5 seconds remaining should he wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u002278d93d157e5e428ab05d86b9dc9963f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278d93d157e5e428ab05d86b9dc9963f9\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The point that I was making at the earlier sitting was that it is not that we are spending too little on the suite of portfolios\u2014across police, corrections, courts, and so on\u2014but that we do not spend the money wisely and that we need to reinvest in a different manner and spend money on solutions. In that sense, I think the obvious gap in this year\u2019s appropriations is around the police. The police budget has been flat for a number of years. In effect, it has suffered a funding cut over a number of years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe police have found efficiencies in their operations, and they are using technology well and wisely to the extent that they can. Nevertheless, if they are to deliver on the Prevention First strategy, for example, they will require well-resourced officers of good morale to do that hard, grinding work to prevent crime in the communities. We will not achieve that if we continue to underfund the police, as we are undoubtedly doing this year in these appropriations. The solution is not to turn the police into a user-pays force, which is the intent of a bill before this House\u2014the Policing (Cost Recovery) Amendment Bill\u2014that effectively, would have police running around with an invoice book to charge people for vetting, initially, and later, potentially, for anything from search and rescue through to educating businesses on how to make their premises secure, and to public education about crime prevention. That is an intolerable proposition and one that we should not entertain at any level. We need to fund the police force properly in order for it to do its job well, and we know that it wants to do its job well. We should enable it to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIn terms of corrections, we know that privatisation is not the answer there. That might appeal initially as a cost-saving measure, but over time, as we have seen quite recently, it is, in fact, a false economy, and the public sector can provide corrections services. There is a moral imperative that only the State should manage the incarceration of people. There is also a major economic imperative. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u0022248f38db79724b4e8d5e682408492009\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022248f38db79724b4e8d5e682408492009\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to rise and talk on these issues in this debate because, actually, this is an area that, as a Government, we can be really proud of in terms of the progress that we are making. It is an area in our country that we can be really glad of\u2014that our crime is at a 35-year low. I think, as we look over the last 7 years, there have been some things that we can be happy about in terms of the things that we are achieving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EThe Better Public Services target of crime being down by 20 percent by the year 2017 is on track. We have already had a 17 to 18 percent decrease over the time period that we were aiming for, so we are absolutely on target to reach that. We have identified a number of ways that we can, in fact, make some improvements. There are some things that this Government has done over the last number of years that are helping us to make some of those impacts. We have been very much at the forefront of ensuring, for example, that we are putting victims first. For a long time in New Zealand our justice system was very focused on the criminals, as, to a certain degree, it needs to be. We need to make sure that we are addressing criminal behaviour and the like, but we have not always done the best that we can by victims, so this Government has been absolutely committed to ensuring that we are mindful of the needs of victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that in the 7 years it has been in power has put through 94 pieces of legislation across the justice area. In particular, I want to point out the work that has been done with the victims of crime reform legislation and also the Harmful Digital Communications Act, which are, as I said earlier, very much focused on delivering for victims. But there have been a number of things introduced, and I want to highlight those things as we look at this sector, particularly when we look at the establishment of a Chief Victims Advisor to the Government. This is the first time this has been put in place. It was advertised last month, and we are hoping to make an appointment by the end of this year. Again, it is something that will ensure that we are going to have victims\u2019 needs very much at the forefront of what we are doing across this sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EWe are creating a National Home Safety Service, which is aiming to assist up to 400 victims of family violence a year, as well as up to 600 children. We are improving judges\u2019 access to information to ensure that they are the best informed that they can possibly be. They will have more information about the history of the perpetrators of family violence and that kind of thing, so that they can make better decisions to keep victims safer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EWe are speeding up court cases. We are getting things going through the court system in a timely way. Again, we are not drawing that out, because, as we know, victims have that time frame of the justice system, and when the wheels of justice move slowly, victims face the issue of perhaps being revictimised all over again and having to live with that, and not being able to move on from the trauma that they have suffered. So speeding up that court process is another important aspect of what we are doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EThere are a number of other things that have been introduced. If we look at the $50 offender levy, which was scoffed at by a lot of people, what we have actually seen is that this has generated more than $16 million since its introduction. That has gone towards funding at least 15 new grants and services to provide key victim support services that were not previously available. If we look at this kind of approach to justice, it makes a whole lot of sense. Yes, perpetrators and those who have been found guilty need to be held to account. They need to be punished at different times, but we all know that restitution and restoring things is a very important part of it, particularly for victims. So that offender levy is a critical part, going forward, of what we are going to see, ensuring that victims will be helped out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EWe are seeing an increase in the number of in-court victims\u2019 advisers. They are being contacted by 35,000 victims a year, and we are seeing that sort of service increasing. We are starting to see people engage with it, and I think it is providing long-term benefits for the victims of crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EIt was interesting that the previous speaker, David Clendon, brought up the police. Well, we have put more police on the beat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u002210185f349f8f44e2b3662af7b41978fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210185f349f8f44e2b3662af7b41978fd\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to start off by talking about the police as well. I noticed that Jono Naylor, the speaker who has just finished, said that the National Government is putting more emphasis on victims. Let me tell you now that the resolution rates for high-volume crimes such as burglary and car theft are below 10 percent. If the National Government were really serious about the needs of victims, the first thing it would do would be to address those low resolution rates. You cannot tell me that any criminal or burglar would be put off from committing those crimes if they knew they had a greater than 90 percent chance of getting away with it successfully. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons, though, that these resolution rates are so low is that the police are being continually asked to do more with less. There is a $15 million cut to the police budget this year. I know that the Minister of Police denied that, but the first thing in the Attorney-General\u2019s report in the Finance and Expenditure Committee was to confirm that there was a $15 million decrease in the police budget, and in real terms over the last 4 or 5 years there has been about a $300 million decrease in the police budget. So, continually, the police are being asked to do more with less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI believe there is a police wage round going on. General duties constables have had an increase in their salaries over maybe the last 4 or 5 years of about $5,000, while at the same time in the period since, I think, 2009 to 2013, the Commissioner of Police has had a $100,000 rise in his salary. I would like to think that the men and women on the ground, who are doing the hard work and who are putting themselves in the front line there and in harm\u2019s way, would get a wage increase relative to what the police commissioner gets. But, that said, if they were to get a substantial salary increase, which I believe they deserve, then that would mean there would be further cuts in other areas such as police cars or maybe some of the technology that is being rolled out. There has been an 18 percent drop in the number of general duties constables over the last little while, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ESexual assaults and violent assaults are areas on the rise. In fact, the statistics say that only 5 percent of sexual assaults are reported and, of that 5 percent, only 1 percent will ever see a conviction, and that is just simply unacceptable. We need to have a greater emphasis on the investigation of sexual assaults. We need to take it a lot more seriously, and violent assaults as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe policing budget has an emphasis on revenue-gathering policing, such as intersection behaviour and lane-changing compliance, the use of mobile phones, and warrants and certificates of fitness. We can understand that there is some emphasis on that and that people can be killed, and are killed, by vehicle violations, but the reality is that we also need to have an equal emphasis on those high-volume crimes such as burglary, sexual assaults, and violent assaults, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI would just like to also talk about the speeding up of court processes, which the previous member spoke about. It is a nice segue into the corrections debacle. One of the things that we are hearing about the botch-ups at Serco, with all the lockdowns that are going on, is that lawyers are having difficulty getting access to their clients. In fact, instead of being able to spend 2 or 3 days preparing cases with their clients, lawyers are having to spend 2 or 3 days just trying to track down where their clients have been transferred to. There is a lack of communication. So when lawyers finally get in touch with their clients, they have a very short time to actually prepare a case, and that is basically causing a logjam in the courts. So the whole corrections episode with Serco shows that the Government\u2019s privatisation agenda is a complete and utter failure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EOne of the main issues around Serco is the fact that it is a business and it wants to make a profit. So it cuts corners, and one of the main corners that it is cutting is staffing. So in terms of the lack of staffing, in the contract Serco does not actually have to have a ratio of prisoners to corrections officers, which is outrageous. The general rule of thumb is that there should be one corrections officer for every 20 inmates. If it is higher security, then it should be one to about 15. There are stories emerging from Serco that at times there is one corrections officer looking after up to 55 inmates. You can understand how those Serco guards would be hesitant to get out into the general population. If there were some sort of fracas that broke out, their lives would be in danger, and they would not have their colleagues there to help them get out of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI have also been told that most of the contraband that comes into Serco is via guards, who, because there are not enough guards to check other guards coming in, are able to bring in contraband. If you go to Department of Corrections - run prisons, anybody who goes through is searched. The other day I was down at Otago Corrections Facility and we were led around by the head of the facility himself. When he came out to greet us and he had to go back in, he had to remove his belt, his keys, his watch, his shoes, and everything. Apparently, in Serco there is just not enough staff to be able to monitor other staff coming in. When you are as poorly paid as the Serco guards, it is quite tempting to bring in contraband and to actually get paid for it. So what actually happens is that the inmates have access to cellphones, as we all know, because they have been taking videos of themselves in the fight clubs. They are also able to ring outside and make arrangements for payments to guards who have brought in contraband. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI spoke to a Serco guard, who did not want to be named, obviously, because his life would be in jeopardy if he was named, and he was telling me this outrageous figure. In fact, it was so outrageous I did not believe him. I said: \u201CWell, how much can a guard get? What\u2019s in it for him if he brought in a packet of cigarettes?\u201D. He said: \u201CIf a guard brings in a packet of cigarettes from the outside, he can get $1,000.\u201D I actually did not believe him, but the very next day I met with an inmate who had been released the day before, and I said to him: \u201CLook, I\u2019ve heard this outrageous story about the value of a packet of cigarettes. You tell me, because I just want to confirm this.\u201D He said: \u201CActually, for a 50-gram pack of tobacco, a guard can get $800.\u201D\u2014for 50 grams\u2019 worth of tobacco. If you are a guard and you can get $1,000 for bringing in one packet of cigarettes, you may as well bring in 10 packets of cigarettes and get $10,000. It sounds outrageous, but that is the black market value within prisons for this type of contraband. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EA cellphone is valued at over $1,000, and those cellphones are not only being used to organise a meth ring from the inside, as we know, but also being used to intimidate families. There was an inmate whose mother got a phone call saying: \u201CIf you don\u2019t put money into a certain bank account, well, then your son will get the bash.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe review of Serco, to me, is going to be a whitewash because it is Serco reviewing itself and the Department of Corrections reviewing Serco, and there is the Ombudsman floating around somewhere. Because we know Serco is such a mess, it is interesting that the Minister of Corrections has got Serco to review itself. But when we come down to Tony Robertson, we know that the Department of Corrections actually did a good job in monitoring him while he was on release. But it is interesting that the Minister has gone and got an independent person to review it, knowing that the review will come out well because the Department of Corrections Chief Probation Officer, Darius Fagan, actually did a review a couple of weeks back and said that it did a very good job of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ESo I ask the question: why is there an independent review of one aspect of the Department of Corrections when it already knows that it has done well, and yet, when it is looking at Serco, Serco gets to review itself and the Department of Corrections gets to review Serco? The first term of reference around Robertson is the management of Robertson prior to and following his release. Well, that has already been done by Darius Fagan. Then the second term of reference is the way the Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u002201b9d0610070480089839b2e032531fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201b9d0610070480089839b2e032531fa\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I want to talk about legal aid, because access to justice is becoming more and more difficult. Costs are very high, even for relatively minor matters. Legal aid was, of course, designed to provide legal representation for people who could not afford it by themselves. It was never a grant, except to parties who could not afford to repay a Legal Services Agency grant. Originally, the qualifying criteria made it possible for people at the lower end of the socio-economic scale to access legal aid, and that worked very well. But now the criteria are so tough that very few people actually qualify. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI want to refer specifically to the Legal Services Regulations as they now are, because they specify that the maximum levels of income for the purpose of determining an applicant\u2019s eligibility for legal aid in respect of a civil matter are: \u201C(a) $22,366 per year for a single applicant: (b) $35,420 per year for an applicant with\u2014(i) a spouse or partner; or (ii) 1 dependent child: (c) $50,934 per year for an applicant with\u2014(i) a spouse or partner, and 1 dependent child; or (ii) 2 dependent children:\u201D. So that is a pretty low level. It is even tougher when it comes to the maximum levels of disposable capital for the purposes of eligibility for legal aid. It specifies for a civil matter that the maximum is $3,500\u2014an incredibly low figure, in my view. However, if the applicant has a spouse or partner, or one or more dependent children, the maximum level of disposable capital for that applicant is calculated by adding an allowance of another $1,500, but even then it is an incredibly low total.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe income and capital thresholds for qualification for legal aid are now so low that many people will simply go unrepresented. And these are not wealthy people. They are ordinary people who find it too tough to pay legal costs without some assistance. So the capital and income thresholds need urgent revision upwards so that people can get legal representation. Far too many are now forced, for economic reasons, to represent themselves. That leads, of course, to poor-quality justice. It leads to a greater burden of time on the courts, it leads to greater use of appeals, and it leads to more injustice than would be acceptable in a modern society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ETo make matters worse, the Legal Services Commissioner now must refuse legal aid if the applicant is in arrears for repayments on previous legal aid grants, subject to an interests of justice test. Nevertheless, the commissioner\u2019s assessment about what is in the interests of justice can be very difficult, especially for unrepresented parties, to argue successfully. In addition to that, I actually do not personally trust the commissioner\u2019s discretion on the interests of justice test in those circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThis provision concerning arrears is intended to encourage legally aided people to start repaying their debt. There is nothing wrong with that objective, but there is actually very little evidence to show that it is likely to have any positive effect on that objective at all. The reason for that is perfectly obvious, and it is simply that the people in that position actually do not have the money to do the repayment of debt that is required of them. So it cannot really have a positive effect in those circumstances. What it does do is cause injustice by making legal aid unavailable in far too many cases so that people either give up or have to represent themselves, and I have already spoken about the results of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe Legal Services Act saying that the amount owing is collectable as a debt and that that should be enough is not sufficient in my view. That needs to be reviewed as well. In addition, we should be deleting the $50 user-charge. That is wrong. Many lawyers simply pay that on behalf of their client. It really is just penny-pinching on behalf of the State and really is not much more than a blatant attempt to try to suppress demand. That, of course, is wrong in terms of what the Act is all about and what legal aid should be for. The money lost by the Crown would be very small if that user-charge was abolished, but the effect on low-income people would be disproportionately high and very positive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI would like to turn next to the issue of charging interest on legal aid debt. It is absolutely wrong in principle, in New Zealand First\u2019s view. It is true that interest could be written off under the existing provisions in the Act, but it does require evidence of serious hardship, and the definition of serious hardship shows that it is a very high bar to reach. As a result, of course, it will again be low-income people\u2014not people at the very lowest rung, but people just above it\u2014who will suffer and be badly affected by this particular provision, which I think is Draconian. The State should not be a banker in these matters, seeking interest at the rate of 8 percent. It should be seen as a public service, and there should be no interest charged on legal aid debt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe Government has lost its way as to what legal aid is really about. It is really about access to justice. That is what we are losing, and it is a very bad trend. Legal aid must be fair for people unable to afford a lawyer, so that they can get sufficient assistance to take legal proceedings that have a reasonable prospect of success and to ensure assistance to people who have no choice but to defend proceedings brought against them. Many of them simply cannot afford to do so because they cannot get legal aid. So in the end, in its quest to move into surplus, this Government, through its Budget cuts over recent years, has limited access to justice for lower-income people. The very people who need legal aid the most are the ones who are going to suffer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe restrictions in legal aid have gone far too far, and combined with the increasing expense of the legal system and legal costs generally, the result in far too many cases is that many, many people will be effectively priced out of the justice system. I think that that must change. This is a very serious issue, and I call on the Government to look at legal aid again, especially those thresholds I referred to but also the whole system. It really is not working any more for low-income people, and it is an urgent matter. It is an urgent matter that has not been addressed in this Budget, and it needs to be looked at in the very near future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022922ef0149a984a0f8e876ca7b1776e2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022922ef0149a984a0f8e876ca7b1776e2d\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call in the estimates debate on the justice sector this evening, particularly in response to the recent initiatives from this Government in response to the crisis we have in this country around domestic and sexual violence. It is nice to stand up and offer unequivocal support for the actions of this Government. It is a very rare event for me to be able to do so, and I do. I commend the Minister of Justice for making domestic violence her priority, and I acknowledge that she said in the media that she could have gone for easy wins and that this probably will not provide the easy wins. But it is addressing an absolute crisis in this country and I commend her. It is not going to be simple. We are not going to get quick results, but it is worth doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EShe has rightly noted that there are 100,000 family violence call outs to the police every year. That is one call out every 5 minutes, and this work accounts for 41 percent of the police\u2019s work. Yet we know that only around 10 to 20 percent of the incidents of domestic violence are actually even reported to the police. We know that although the number of cases reported to the police is going up at the moment, the number of cases being resolved has dropped by 10 percent since 2008. There is something going wrong if the number of reported cases is going up and the number of cases being resolved by police is going down. So we need desperately to have a very comprehensive look at this problem. This is one in three women in this country who over their lifetime are likely to be victims of domestic violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe also have an epidemic rate of sexual violence, where one in three or four girls is likely to be a victim of sexual violence in this country and one in six to 10 boys is likely to be a victim of sexual violence in this country. We have a conviction rate for sexual violence of around 1 percent and of less than 2 percent for domestic violence. So this Government is doing the right thing in making this a priority. I would just like to offer it some advice and some encouragement to have the public participate in the consultation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI do think the Government is going to have to review its Better Public Services target to bring down the crime rate. The target is to reduce the crime rate by 20 percent by 2017, and what I am hearing from the community and on the ground is that that reduction and police resolution of family violence cases is a result of that Better Public Services target to reduce crime. We need to have all of the incentives lined up, going the right way, and when we know that only 10 to 20 percent of cases are coming to the police\u2019s attention, we need to be encouraging them to resolve things. That, in the short term, is going to result in an increase in recorded crime. That is just going to be part of the process and we have to go through it if we are going to get on top of this problem as a country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI also want to point out that the Prime Minister has noted that it is possible that the Government may need to spend a little bit more money in this area. Well, from speaking to so many organisations on the ground, hearing about the situation around legal aid, and knowing the pressures on police, there is no doubt that we are going to have to spend more money. The majority of funding in this area is going to the corrections system, our prisons. We have a 1 to 2 percent conviction rate, so we know that that money is not actually doing anything to resolve the issues in the long term when it is touching only a tiny little part of the problem. And prevention\u2014the amount of money that is being spent in this area is 1.5 percent of the Government\u2019s spending. A similarly small\u2014not quite that small, but inadequately small\u2014amount is going towards counselling and support services and wraparound services for offenders and people who use violence, as well as towards victims. If we want to be able to break these patterns and get people to change their behaviour and help women and children to get to safety, we actually have to resource those efforts in a complete, wraparound way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe third point I just want to touch on is that I do hope that the Minister is not dropping sexual violence as her priority, though the discussion document is focused on domestic violence, because the Law Commission has a comprehensive body of work to look at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdcaa030c587464c8aeec2180e29f952\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdcaa030c587464c8aeec2180e29f952\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is an honour to speak in the estimates debate about law and order. I follow Jan Logie and the comments that she has made in regard to domestic violence. I know that in the last term we too were involved with the inquiry into the funding of sexual violence social support services. And, also, just recently there was a h\u012Bkoi that Kelvin Davis led and was part of. Again, it addressed the issues around men against sexual violence. The whole issue is something that I think is of concern across parties and across Government. Prior to entering Parliament, I was also on the task force for family violence under the previous Government, so this is an issue that has been there for such a long time. It has been a critical issue. It is an issue that has raised both awareness and also, along with that, a number of systemic areas of concern that we have to deal with, and I believe that that has been part of this Government\u2019s focus as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EViolent crime has been rising\u2014we know that. The criminal justice system has needed accountability and focus on victims, and that has been the key driver for this Government in the direction of the justice sector. It has been our belief that our having a tough stance on law and order means that New Zealand\u2019s recorded crime rate is falling and is at its lowest level since 1978. Although we can applaud the fact that we now have one of the lowest crime rates in 30 years, we know that family violence, domestic violence, and even sexual violence are still areas of concern, and we do not shy away from that. In fact, as the previous speaker did, I want to applaud again the comments of the Minister of Justice, the Hon Amy Adams, who has taken a lead in a direction and area for us to be able to champion that. And, actually, the way that she has been able to do that is that National\u2019s focus is on getting the key justice sector agencies to work together\u2014that is, justice, police, and, yes, even corrections\u2014in this regard. That is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EOne of the areas that I think has not been addressed or touched on, either, in the debates so far, in regard to law and order, is some of the focus and priority areas, especially those that impact on both our M\u0101ori community and vulnerable children. Several challenges remain, and we know that the incidence and impact of crime is unevenly spread. In fact, research shows that 6 percent of adults experience 54 percent of the crime. But an area of concern for this Government is the over-representation of M\u0101ori in the criminal justice system, both as offenders and even as victims of crime. M\u0101ori are in prison at six times the rate of non-M\u0101ori, and it is estimated that 22 percent of M\u0101ori males born before 1975 had a corrections-managed sentence before their 20th birthday and that 44 percent had such a sentence by the age of 35. This is an area of concern for this Government. It is an area that we want to address as well, because the rate of offending for M\u0101ori youth has fallen by 53 percent from 2008 to 2014. However, there is still much work to be done, and we know that these are critical areas for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EOne of the areas of focus for this Government is in putting victims first. We have introduced the $50 offender levy, which has generated more than $16.6 million since its introduction. This has gone towards funding 15 new grants and services to provide key victim support services that were not previously available. The ministry funds victim support, and it provides nationwide, 24/7 crisis response and ongoing support services, so that more than 34,000 victims were supported in 2013 and in 2014. The Victims Centre manages funding for victims of serious crime through the $50 offender levy. In 2013 and in 2014 the centre funded $5.9 million of grants and services that was provided to almost 5,500 victims of serious crime and tailored to their specific needs. During the court process, the ministry had 84 in-court victims\u2019 advisers. It contacted about 35,000 victims a year, and there have been 24,000 using the service since 2013-14, as well. There has also been an increase in funding for restorative justice programmes, which are available to courts as an option for pre-sentencing and to provide an alternative way of responding to crime and addressing harm to victims. The increase in the penalty for breaching protection orders to 2 to 3 years\u2019 imprisonment has also made a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ENational passed the Victims of Crime Reform Bill in order to improve the rights and services for all victims, and we passed the Harmful Digital Communications Bill to protect victims from cyber-bullying as well. What we are also doing is strengthening sentencing, parole, and bail. We have passed the Bail Amendment Bill in order to tighten up on bail and to introduce electronically monitored bail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00220a22375aa9c0429cae129d7ab33b1beb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a22375aa9c0429cae129d7ab33b1beb\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to speak to Vote Corrections. There are some interesting figures in this document, the Estimates of Appropriations. Although the overall increase in the vote for corrections goes up 2.7 percent, the total amount paid in the next 12 months to Ministerial Services, which the Department of Corrections uses for responses to ministerial correspondence, and for the Parliamentary Service actually goes up by 6.5 percent, by my reckoning. I wonder what that is in aid of. Why is there the 6.5 percent increase for ministerial correspondence and parliamentary questions? I would hazard a guess and say that corrections is receiving a lot of attention from the Opposition. I think that is probably the reason why that has gone up 6.5 percent, and overall the budget has gone up only 2.7 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EBut the key thing that I want to talk about, actually, is the absolute failure of prison privatisation. We have got the report of select committees on the estimates and, according to the Minister of Corrections, the department\u2019s public-private partnership with Serco was proving beneficial to both parties, as they could share and model best practice for the most effective use of taxpayers\u2019 dollars. Well, I would challenge that. I think the evidence and the information that has come to the attention of the House quite clearly says that it has been an absolute, dismal failure. I think that the vote, the amount of money put aside within this Budget, may not be enough to run the prisons, because, as we know, there are a number of reviews being carried out as we speak, the result of which may have implications upon this budget. So I would question that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI also question the statements made in this Chamber by the former Minister of Corrections Anne Tolley, who said: \u201Cthe privately run prison in Mt Eden is exceeding the record of our State-run prisons.\u201D Well, I do not think that is correct, either. I think that is part of the hospital pass that she has made to the current Minister of Corrections, and this experiment in privatisation of prisons is not working. I think that the New Zealand public deserve some assurances that the people who are sent to prison are well looked after and are rehabilitated, because eventually they are going to come back out into our communities. So the appropriation should reflect that, and I do not think it really does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI do not think there is enough being done, particularly in the privately run prisons. I think the numbers that have been used, which the former Minister of Corrections Anne Tolley referred to, in particular to Mt Eden prison, are definitely skewed, because that is a remand prison. So the majority of the people in there\u2014those ones on remand, of course\u2014are going through the court system. It is the minority who are in there who are going through programmes for rehabilitation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe issue that we have been hearing, time and time again, is that the most difficult inmates are transferred to other prisons, to State-run prisons. That is a huge problem, because when you are looking at the statistics around how well that particular prison is doing, quite clearly those numbers are skewed. I think we are seeing only the tip of the iceberg.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4c55324-cd76-4323-a6a2-1408a110a862\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1720132143847adbbef090fdd102a48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4c55324-cd76-4323-a6a2-1408a110a862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1720132143847adbbef090fdd102a48\u0022\u003EMAHESH BINDRA (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to highlight the lack of taxpayer funding being allocated to one of the most important sectors of our law and order machinery, and the most important of our public services, which is the corrections system. We need prisons to be safe for both staff and prisoners, and we need them to function in a way that they will deliver the services they are being paid for. At the moment it is not happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4c55324-cd76-4323-a6a2-1408a110a862\u0022\u003ESerco has been given the contract for some years now to run the old Mt Eden Corrections Facility, and Serco was branded by the Minister of Corrections as having the most successful and the highest-performing prison in the country. Well, that is not a fact, because, time and again, Serco has proved that it is not up to the game. There were the infamous fight clubs. There have been extortion calls going out to community members. There has been drug taking and home brew being used by those prisoners in Serco\u2019s prisons, and the reason for that is that Serco does not maintain the same staff-to-prisoner ratio as the Department of Corrections has. And Serco does get away with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4c55324-cd76-4323-a6a2-1408a110a862\u0022\u003EWith the $30 million - odd Serco gets every year, its aim is to save the maximum and send it overseas as profits, because that is what it is\u2014a profit-making corporate. It does not have the safety and the security of prisoners and officers in mind; what it has in mind is its profits, and it has been able to achieve that. But what we have not been able to achieve is getting the service that we pay for. The taxpayers are not getting their money\u2019s worth from Serco, and that has been proved beyond doubt, starting with the fight clubs, the extortion calls that have been going out to the community, the use of banned cellphones inside the prison, the weaker prisoners being stood over, as they call it, and the weaker prisoners being thrown off balconies, being injured, and then being passed on to other Department of Corrections - run prisons, just to cover that up. So there is a real danger to the safety of prisoners and staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4c55324-cd76-4323-a6a2-1408a110a862\u0022\u003ENow, after the so-called fiasco, the Department of Corrections has posted 20 staff from the corrections system to assist with the management of the Serco-run\u2014or, rather, the Serco-mismanaged\u2014Mt Eden Corrections Facility. Those 20 staff are actually filling in for the shortage of staff that Serco has been making money on. So now our question is: what will happen after the dust has settled? Will they be called back to corrections prisons, and, if that happens, what will happen to the staff-to-prisoner ratio in Serco prisons? That is a question we need to get answers for. Serco-run prisons do not have the rehabilitation programmes that Department of Corrections - run prisons have. Serco had cut funding to that also, just to make profits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4c55324-cd76-4323-a6a2-1408a110a862\u0022\u003EIt is a shambles at the moment. We have got prisoners absconding to Brazil, we have got offenders killing women while on electronic monitoring, and we have got them cutting off bracelets so they can have some free time on the outside. That is really concerning. We cannot have it and we cannot have prisoners organising fight clubs, bullying prisoners, or injuring prisoners and even killing them. We just cannot have it. This Minister is letting this slip by on his watch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4c55324-cd76-4323-a6a2-1408a110a862\u0022\u003ESo why are we even thinking of funding such a public-private partnership? Serco has proved time and again that it is not capable of running a prison like the Mt Eden Corrections Facility, and yet it is being rewarded, which is a double whammy. It does not deliver, and yet it gets rewarded. Recently, the Department of Corrections chief executive officer declared that he is going to fine Serco half a million dollars. Well, that actually is not a fine; that will be deducted from the bonus it would have otherwise got had it performed to standards\u2014and clearly it has not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4c55324-cd76-4323-a6a2-1408a110a862\u0022\u003EWhat we have suggested is that instead of putting our own staff at risk, our own people at risk, and our prisoners at risk, we should withdraw Serco\u2019s contract altogether.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u00223f6d70760a3f4b0a8eb13b5a5502b5e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f6d70760a3f4b0a8eb13b5a5502b5e2\u0022\u003EHon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E It is an honour to take a call on the Appropriation (2015/16 Estimates) Bill. I just want to touch on some of the areas of corrections that members across the Chamber have alluded to. We will agree across this Chamber, firstly, that the safety and security of staff, of the New Zealand public, and of prisoners is paramount\u2014it is paramount. Secondly, as has been alluded to by colleagues across the Chamber, the rehabilitation of offenders is also really important. It is important because most of the offenders who go to prison ultimately get out and we have got to get them reintegrated and rehabilitated so that they can take part meaningfully in our society once they return to civil society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI just want to touch on a couple of points that members across the aisle talked about today. It is about justice for people, and I, like many across this country, was appalled at some of the footage around the fight clubs that were allegedly happening at the Mt Eden Corrections Facility. That is why we put in place a review by the chief inspectorate, overseen by the independent office of the Ombudsman, which is really important. I urge members in this Chamber as well as the general public that if they have any evidence of the allegations of violence and of corruption that have been bandied around this House, and of the accusations loosely made against different people in Serco and people across the prison estate, to bring it forward. Bring it forward to the chief inspectorate, bring it forward to the investigators who are currently going through all the issues that are being bandied around in society, because what we need is a thorough review and investigation of the facts, we need a report that will look into these matters, and then we need to sensibly make decisions that affect not just Serco but the prison estate right across this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI just want to touch on the estimates in terms of what we are doing in corrections and how we are doing in corrections. The reoffending rate since 2011 has come down 9 percent\u2014just over 9 percent\u2014so it is currently just over 27 percent. I was in Australia recently for the Ministers\u2019 conference, and when you look at reoffending rates in Australia, you see that for New South Wales it is over 42 percent\u2014over 42 percent\u2014so that is 50 percent more than in New Zealand. In Queensland it is in the high 30s\u2014high 30s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESo when we look at our system and how we are doing compared with our Australian neighbours\u2014who are the most important neighbours we have, the most important partners, with a jurisprudential system that is very similar to our own\u2014we are actually doing far better in terms of reoffending and we are doing far better in terms of rehabilitation. It is one of the reasons why the South Australian Minister visited me last week and asked what we were doing around rehabilitation and what we were doing around reintegration, because they want to know what we are doing that we are doing well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESo although some members will bash the corrections system, there is actually a lot that is going on in our system that is really good. There is a lot that we are doing with M\u0101ori around tikanga M\u0101ori in our prisons to get M\u0101ori men, particularly, connected with their culture, connected with their wh\u0101nau, back into society, and doing well again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThere is so much in our system around employment: a goal of every prison in this country is to be a working prison by 2017. Why is that important? It is because we know that jobs reduce dependency on welfare, we know that jobs reduce hardship, and we also know that jobs reduce reoffending rates. Jobs keep people out in our communities; enable them to look after, feed, and house their families, their wh\u0101nau; and enable them to be better citizens in this country. That is why we are going for a full complement of working prisons across the estate\u2014that is, both within Serco and within the public prisons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWe are also increasing numeracy and literacy in our prisons with programmes. We know that two-thirds of those men, predominantly, who turn up to our prisons cannot read or write. They are functionally illiterate and that is why we have signed a memorandum of understanding with the Tertiary Education Commission and we are now running programmes, numeracy and literacy programmes, to get these men back learning, growing, and in jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EFinally, I just want to salute the 8,000 men and women in both private and public prisons who are out there every day making this corrections system the best that it can be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002212abcb2d769945bf89fbc457ffc4e27e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote Justice, Vote Attorney-General, Vote Corrections, Vote Courts, Vote Justice, Vote Parliamentary Counsel, Vote Police, and Vote Serious Fraud be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 62\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVotes agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002225eee423ad75431085c609909c669ab9\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori, Other Populations and Cultural Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022df50a46a6614408b8679e766937b9e9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df50a46a6614408b8679e766937b9e9e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to the votes in the M\u0101ori, Other Populations and Cultural Sector\u2014volume B.5, volume 8. The question is that Vote Arts, Culture and Heritage, Vote Internal Affairs, Vote M\u0101ori Development, Vote Pacific Peoples, Vote Sport and Recreation, Vote Statistics, Vote Treaty Negotiations, and Vote Women stand part of the schedules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc13883de2654f53bf375fbfdf3339d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc13883de2654f53bf375fbfdf3339d4\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (Chairperson of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Kai te Kaiwhakahaere, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, \u0101, huri noa i te Whare e mihi atu ana ki a koutou katoa. The M\u0101ori Affairs Committee considered the estimates for Vote M\u0101ori Development and for Vote Treaty Negotiations. On Vote M\u0101ori Development we heard from the Minister for M\u0101ori Development and Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, and we received advice from the Office of the Auditor-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI want to briefly cover the key findings of our report. We questioned the Minister and the ministry about Wh\u0101nau Ora, particularly on the implementation of funding transfers from Te Puni K\u014Dkiri to commissioning agents. The Minister explained the clear lines of accountability that are in place to ensure this money is spent in the way that it is intended. The commissioning agencies have expectations written into their contracts, and these will be monitored and refined in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EWe discussed also the inclusion of non-M\u0101ori in Wh\u0101nau Ora. We consider this to be important as Wh\u0101nau Ora represents a M\u0101ori approach to dealing with wh\u0101nau, but it is a programme for all New Zealanders. We questioned the Minister about M\u0101ori Television. The Minister assured us of the continuing independence of M\u0101ori Television and the rigorous protocols he is putting in place to prevent any appearance of improper influence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThe appropriations for Vote M\u0101ori Development have been increased by 12.56 percent for the 2015-16 year, from $221 million to $249 million. As well as the usual operational funding that is needed to keep Te Puni K\u014Dkiri operating and providing policy advice to the Government, there are many great initiatives that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri is leading that will continue to grow M\u0101ori capability, support our most vulnerable wh\u0101nau, and grow the M\u0101ori economy. There is $16 million to fund M\u0101ori potential through community investment programmes and the rangatiratanga grants as well, and $4 million is going to specific M\u0101ori potential programmes such as the M\u0101ori Wardens Association and the M\u0101ori Women\u2019s Development Fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EWe know that one of the biggest issues for our most vulnerable people is housing, so $7 million is going to provide practical assistance to M\u0101ori housing projects and another $7 million is going to M\u0101ori housing development. One million dollars will be spent on strengthening and promoting tourism, which is a cause very close to my heart. Over $82 million will be going towards the promotion of the M\u0101ori language and culture. That $82 million will fund organisations that are actively promoting Te Reo M\u0101ori, such as Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho, M\u0101ori Television, and Te Taura Whiri i te Reo M\u0101ori. One of those great initiatives organised by Te Taura Whiri i te Reo M\u0101ori happened last week. Of course, I am talking about M\u0101ori Language Week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EMoving on to Vote Treaty Negotiations, we heard from the Minister for Treaty Negotiations and from the Office of Treaty Settlements. The great work that this Government is doing in the Treaty negotiations area is very, very well-known. The Minister told us that 85 of the settlements are now completed, and there will be further agreements in principle and deeds of settlement in the next year. The estimates for 2015-16 put aside a multi-year appropriation of $1,400 million to cover the costs of those settlements and put $88 million towards the operational costs of continuing the settlement process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EOne thing that we were particularly interested in when the Minister appeared before our committee was the post settlements commitments unit. The Government has made over 7,000 commitments to iwi through Treaty settlements. As we come closer to having settlements signed with all willing and able iwi, the role of the Office of Treaty Settlements will diminish, but the role of the post settlements commitments unit will grow. It is good to hear that the Minister is planning for this transition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThe 2015-16 estimates represent a good balance of funding to grow the M\u0101ori economy, support our most vulnerable wh\u0101nau, and strengthen Te Reo M\u0101ori. I wish Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, the Office of Treaty Settlements, and the other organisations that will be putting these goals into action all the best for the year ahead, and we look forward to seeing the results that they have achieved when they report to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee next year. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u002279ce907e6eb2443d821bf052f72ecad1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279ce907e6eb2443d821bf052f72ecad1\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure to speak to Vote M\u0101ori Development. The chair of our committee has aptly summarised the report. However, if one was to look in further detail at the issues confronted by the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, and, indeed, throughout the country in relation to the most important factors affecting M\u0101ori development, then we would simply hinge this particular discussion around the framework that the Government has used to address M\u0101ori development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIn He Kai Kei Aku Ringa\u2014The Crown-M\u0101ori Economic Growth Partnership there are six goals. Those goals in part align to what one might expect Te Puni K\u014Dkiri to be doing. However, we question only the significant areas that the vote affected. I raise the issue of He Kai Kei Aku Ringa because goal one of this is probably one of the most fundamental elements of what is going to help propel M\u0101ori development, and that is the education of our people, our kids\u2014lifting skills in training. I was somewhat disturbed by the lack of contribution by the Minister for M\u0101ori Development, certainly in the estimates debate, about how he saw the contribution of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri going forward in this period towards lifting M\u0101ori participation and education, especially in the early childhood area. I raise this also because one of the most topical debates right now is around the reorganisation and restructuring of k\u014Dhanga reo, which is a significant contributor to the positive advancement of our children on a M\u0101ori-medium language pathway into education. The Minister was absent in terms of his contribution in this space before the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ESecondly, the committee spent some time investigating the issues around Wh\u0101nau Ora and, more particularly, with regard to the Office of the Auditor-General\u2019s report. Wh\u0101nau Ora commissioning agencies have had $43 million transferred to them in this vote. The questions of the select committee were quite simple: was the Minister satisfied under phase one that enough had been done to evaluate Wh\u0101nau Ora as an initiative, in order to make that substantial decision to transfer the funding obligation to these Wh\u0101nau Ora commissioning agencies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe Auditor-General\u2019s report helped with the questions at select committee level. We were concerned about a number of areas. Firstly, it is very difficult to define what Wh\u0101nau Ora is. So if it is difficult to define what it is, how can you evaluate the outcomes? People who are well versed in this particular area will point to a wh\u0101nau outcomes framework and a shared outcomes model. But the question is quite simple: did Te Puni K\u014Dkiri have confidence that the phase one evaluation gave it sufficient confidence to be able to make the transfer to the Wh\u0101nau Ora commissioning agencies? When I asked the chief executive of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri whether it raised any risks with this decision, the chief executive nodded her head and said: \u201CYes, risks were raised with the Minister.\u201D We will come back to that particular point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe second point is that in the Office of the Auditor-General\u2019s report one of the insights that the Auditor-General observed\u2014noting that there were innovations in this particular model\u2014was that shifting the funding framework model currently adopted and used by the Ministry of Social Development, the Ministry of Health, and the Ministry of Education from individual to collective outcomes was going to be a significant challenge. In fact, Te Puni K\u014Dkiri recognised that as well. It remains an issue for the Government to confront. If the aspirations of Wh\u0101nau Ora as an initiative are to work towards shared outcomes, wh\u0101nau-based outcomes, then that would require those other ministries to change their funding framework model. That was highlighted in the report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe other aspect was the success of the Wh\u0101nau Integration, Innovation and Engagement Fund (WIIE) plans that were in the phase one stage of the model. Those members who have travelled throughout the country and have visited with various of these Wh\u0101nau Ora providers will have heard numerous bits of feedback about how successful this particular part of the Wh\u0101nau Ora initiative has been because it allowed wh\u0101nau themselves to identify some of the outcomes they were seeking at a very small level. So being able to coordinate services and collaborations around wh\u0101nau in order to address the issues in the WIIE plans became fertile ground for learning about how to improve service delivery. Interestingly enough, in the phase one evaluation and the transfer to forward funding in these estimates the WIIE initiative was actually not picked up. It was only the navigator component of the Wh\u0101nau Ora funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIn so far as that is concerned, here is a question that remains for the Minister to respond to: in respect of those Wh\u0101nau Ora providers that were successful in phase one but have not been funded in phase two, can the Minister explain why that has occurred and whether he is satisfied that the network of services, especially in rural areas, can be achieved despite the inequity of funding towards navigators in this space? The Minister for M\u0101ori Development is, I think, putting his mind to this particular challenge, because he knows, like we know, that the Wh\u0101nau Ora commissioning agencies have not addressed this issue and that there are significant gaps, especially in rural areas, about how Wh\u0101nau Ora providers can significantly meet the obligations of their wh\u0101nau when they are not getting the same flow-through of funding through the navigator fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI will come to the issue of Treaty settlements. I agree that the post settlements commitments unit provides ample opportunity to assess the positive implementation of a number of Treaty settlements throughout the country. Notably, just last week the Freshwater Iwi Leaders Group announced a high-level memorandum of understanding with Local Government New Zealand, which I think foreshadows just how beneficial some of the mechanisms within Treaty settlements will be at a local government level and that they will have a positive impact in their area. However, can I say is this: it is probably salient at the front end of the discussions, if co-governance and co-management with local government is going to work, that local government is included in some of those particular discussions. Given that we have some hefty issues around water, around representation, around procurement of services at the local government level, and also around the funding for utilities infrastructure, if there were a front-end participation role for Local Government New Zealand in that space, then co-investment strategies with iwi could be a really new opportunity to help support regional development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI know that the Minister is aware of all these issues. I am looking forward to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee monitoring further the role of the post settlements commitments unit to ensure that an even-handed application of the mechanisms within Treaty settlements, in so far as local government is concerned, can happen in the way that it is intended to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe last part of my contribution is in the space of housing. There was some $7 million appropriated to the M\u0101ori housing development initiative and $4 million to the rural and M\u0101ori housing component of the role that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri currently undertakes. It seems to me that at a local government level there is still an uneven response to the way in which papak\u0101inga development can continue. Also, the whole resource consenting and planning process can make better provision for this. I know this because I submitted to the Hauraki District Council on its papak\u0101inga development plan, as well as on the Waikato District Council development plan. There are exemplars throughout the country, but it is not even-handed. Here is a really easy space for the Minister for M\u0101ori Development to send a signal to councils that best practice is actually the real opportunity if we want to ensure that M\u0101ori can build on their own lands to be able to provide housing at a low cost, and to be able to meet some of the real challenges of homeownership amongst the M\u0101ori population. Again, the Minister was silent on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EMy last point: both Te Ture Whenua Maori Act reform and Te Reo M\u0101ori bills have been an absolute shambles. The Minister has had to delay and defer the report back of the bill for Te Ture Whenua M\u0101ori because he knows that it does not meet the needs of those M\u0101ori landowners to be able to move their land into a productive space. My colleague Meka Whaitiri is championing that particular issue for our team. In the Te Reo M\u0101ori space, the poor old Minister is having to do a bit of backwash to save face for the previous Minister, who made an absolute kibosh of the issue. He introduced the M\u0101ori Language (Te Reo M\u0101ori) Bill into the House at the eleventh hour, and with, I think, very little robust consideration around the proposals there. We have had to revamp that. It is going back to Cabinet for further consideration. Poor old Minister Flavell has made a wee mess of it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1df570a57d34c90a9495004b1cb6c9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1df570a57d34c90a9495004b1cb6c9e\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I want to take a call on Vote Treaty Negotiations and thank the previous speaker, Nanaia Mahuta, for her helpful comments on the post settlements commitments unit. She raised some very interesting issues. I agree with her that early engagement, particularly with local government, provides opportunities and also enables issues to be clarified at an early stage, and that is exactly what I want to do on the harbours negotiations that are coming up. I also want to pay tribute to the Office of Treaty Settlements for its excellent work over the past 12 months. It is a very dedicated bunch of people, and I am very proud to work with them. Some of them also act as Treaty negotiators. So, for example, the deeds of settlement for Ng\u0101ti Hau\u0101 and Heretaunga Tamatea were negotiated in-house, and that is my plan with Ng\u0101puhi as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBut I do want to say something about the money expended on external Treaty negotiators because of what I think was a vulgar, crude, and intemperate attack on them by the Rt Hon Mr Peters earlier in the day, when he said that the fees were colossal and, somewhat bizarrely, said that I was giving jobs to my mates. I am very fond of both Paul Swain and Rick Barker, but I do not know that they would want to be called my mates. Unlike that honourable member, I do have great respect for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI asked Mr Swain some years ago whether he would like to work with me on the Ngati Porou matter, and he did such a very good job that I asked him whether he would work on some others. So in recent times Paul Swain has negotiated the Taranaki settlement, which will, hopefully, be signed in September; Mana Ahuriri; Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, which we are going to debate for the first time tomorrow; and Maungaharuru-Tangit\u016B. Mr Swain is an excellent negotiator and, if anything, I do not think he charges enough. I have huge respect for him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211555178cf1a4db58528c70692ac9cdd\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll tell him that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e035e19b2db4d7b8ff3b113ba05d72b\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you tell him, but do not tell him too loudly. The second person that Mr Peters insulted was Mr Barker. I approached him after he left Parliament in 2011 and asked whether he would like to do a few negotiations for me, and he is doing a great job\u2014for example, Te \u0100tiawa, and Ng\u0101ruahine, which we are debating for the first time tomorrow. So I am very happy to say that these external negotiators are very good value for money, are providing excellent service, and are achieving results. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI say to New Zealand First members that their tendency to personalise things and attack the individual, as they have done with my Treaty negotiators, is something I resent and something I think is quite simply disgusting. As I said this afternoon to a journalist, Mr Peters is nothing more than the Donald Trump of New Zealand politics, who wants nothing more than a cheap headline. These people are good people, and I am very proud of the work they are doing, regardless of party and regardless of background. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAnother person that the right honourable member attacked this afternoon was John Wood. John Wood, who is the chancellor of Canterbury University and has been doing an excellent job there, was twice our ambassador in Washington and is an outstanding public servant who has negotiated two extremely difficult Treaty negotiations and done phenomenally well. I refer to his negotiation with T\u016Bhoe and his landmark negotiation in respect of the Whanganui River. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThese are the sorts of people I have had working with me over the years, regardless of party and regardless of background. They are dedicated to achieving just and durable settlements for the benefit of New Zealand, and if the New Zealand First speaker Pita Paraone\u2014who obviously wants to stand up next for his penny\u2019s worth\u2014has any decency, he will apologise to those people because his leader\u2019s statements were unfair and were simply disgusting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe final point I want to make is in relation to Te Ture Whenua Maori Act reform, because I do think that the Hon Nanaia Mahuta was a little unfair on that issue. This is the first comprehensive rewrite of Te Ture Whenua Maori Act for well over a generation. The 1993 Act was never really fit for purpose, and so what we are seeking to do is take a fresh look at it. There has been an exposure draft put out to enable proper discussion. There are lots of issues, and we make no apologies for the fact that there is a lot of work to be done there, polishing the jewel so that everyone benefits from the reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u002232151930e5a345b29fadd853cbe13a60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232151930e5a345b29fadd853cbe13a60\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chairman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e9483ec888c4b26a7c6fca92dc68b77\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe. I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member\u2014you can go for dinner. Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f80ab63bda5342bfa65d0277ca3e08d4\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe te Whare. Kia ora mai t\u0101tou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Members, before the dinner break we were debating Vote Arts, Culture and Heritage, Vote Internal Affairs, Vote M\u0101ori Development, Vote Pacific Peoples, Vote Sport and Recreation, Vote Statistics, Vote Treaty Negotiations, and Vote Women, and matua Pita Paraone had the call. All but 4 seconds of it was cast in the pre-dinner break, but he has 4 minutes and 56 seconds remaining should he wish to avail himself of the opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f16071ac7d9483e9d0725522e1ac905\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Can I ask for the 4 seconds to be added on to my\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2c78459c1ee4887b1a3f7c2707d44ac\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: No. I am sorry there is no discount.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eb456328d1a405daa51c2a262990276\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014lot because I had difficulty understanding from your predecessor his pronunciation of my name and I took time to correct him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcf00f441fbe49c0a7aa6230971ec2ef\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I hope that you have not had that problem with me. You have 4 minutes and 56 seconds remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f8a521d5f2b4f5f8542061e44788d31\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chairman. Reluctantly I will have to accept that. Before the dinner break, the speaker before me, Chris Finlayson, had a bit of a hissy fit at the comments that my leader had made. Quite clearly he took them out of context, because reverting to diversions and straw men in some vain attempt to avert attention from cross-expenditure items to individual Treaty settlement negotiations simply will not do. What Mr Peters was referring to\u2014and he did not name any names other than to say that two of the negotiators had received in excess of $1 million during the period of their tenure as negotiators. That was the only comment that he made. If people want to know the details of what each negotiator got, I am quite prepared to table that, but that is public knowledge so I do not need to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI want to focus particularly on the area of Wh\u0101nau Ora. That was some discussion during the review of the M\u0101ori affairs portfolio. Right from the outset New Zealand First has had some doubts about the programme and how that fund has been used. I want to say that in the 2015-16 Budget $50 million was added to the Wh\u0101nau Ora programme. The question that I am asking this Committee, and perhaps the Minister in the chair, the Hon Paula Bennett, may be able to give me some answer, is that in terms of receiving that $50 million for this programme, no evidence and no application was actually made for the funds. If I was an operator in another ministry, I would certainly be asking: \u201CWhy is it that if I want extra money for my ministry, I have to put up a case for it, and, yet, for M\u0101ori development they get that extra money without any evidence as to justifying the need for that extra money?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe other thing that came out during the review, when asked of the officials what the major task was in order for Wh\u0101nau Ora to progress onwards, was the answer that they needed to inform the public as to what Wh\u0101nau Ora was all about. We found that quite surprising, given that this programme has been around for some time, and here we have officials having to tell us that the public are not quite sure of what Wh\u0101nau Ora is all about. I just want to have it on record that this is, I think, pandering to the wishes of a particular political party, rather than looking at the issues and whether or not Wh\u0101nau Ora is a programme that justifies extra funding without a proper case being put to have that extra money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI also want to say that in advancing Wh\u0101nau Ora, I note that the Ministry of Health has put together some comparisons in terms of some of the programmes that the health ministry is responsible for. I need to say that Wh\u0101nau Ora providers compare very well with general providers, so in some respects that is a good point for Wh\u0101nau Ora to carry on. But, at the end of the day, what our concern is from New Zealand First is whether or not the funding that has been allocated to that programme is properly administered. As we in this Committee all know, if funds are not properly administered, then the whole programme falters. We certainly do not want to see that under our watch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EIn terms of the Treaty settlements, I just want to make the comment that although a number of settlements have been made\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u002239fa1cf5ad854cc684e562668dc93f7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239fa1cf5ad854cc684e562668dc93f7f\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to speak to these votes, which are wide ranging at the moment on internal affairs, M\u0101ori development, Pacific peoples, sports and recreation, statistics, Treaty negotiations, women, and arts, culture and heritage. I do stand up, though, right now and just say that one sees the changes we have made in Vote M\u0101ori Affairs, turning it into Vote M\u0101ori Development, and the actual progress that is being made in regional development with the Business Growth Agenda and having the Minister of M\u0101ori Development working alongside that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI actually stand and take umbrage with the last speech, where someone said that there is no evidence to support funding for Wh\u0101nau Ora. Well, how about the evidence of M\u0101ori being disproportionately in our jails? How about the evidence of M\u0101ori disproportionately doing poorly in our education systems? How about our health sector, where they have more health needs that are not identified? How about our education sector, where M\u0101ori are not doing as well? If one stood up and wanted evidence, I would simply say that what has been done in the past is simply not good enough for that population and what their needs are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWe do have to be brave and work differently with M\u0101ori, and alongside them, with them being stewards of what is best as far as their social and economic development goes. So as part of this National-led Government I do stand beside our coalition partners, with the M\u0101ori Party and with the Minister of M\u0101ori Development, and see that, actually, Wh\u0101nau Ora is working. As always with a new initiative, if you like, that is out there in the communities and working differently, and it needs to be worked alongside to see the level of support and expertise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EBut even today\u2014if we are being negative\u2014I read in the paper that the nurses who are working in Wh\u0101nau Ora are being paid less than those who are in other areas. Quite frankly, that is where we say that they are not sitting there wasting money; they are actually in their communities and in those homes working alongside people to help them reach their aspirations and their goals. Unlike other members, I get alongside those people in their communities and get alongside those Wh\u0101nau Ora navigators. I hear the challenges that they have and I certainly hear how hard the work is, and we acknowledge that. So we will be putting more money in, and quite proudly, to stand across those who are disadvantaged and more vulnerable and who actually need more support, and in a different way than has been done in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI also want to touch on Vote Women and, certainly, where that is at and what we are doing. We should be incredibly proud in this country that 64 percent of our university graduates are women\u2014are female. When we actually look at the statistics of how they are going, how they are in education, and how the education system is delivering for them, we can see the difference. I want to stand here and acknowledge the significant reduction in the number of women on benefits. Sole parents who are on benefit have gone down by literally tens of thousands. That is women and their children actually being independent and having a better go at life than they would have had on the lifetime of welfare that they have led in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the huge reduction in the number of teen pregnancies. I say \u201Cteen pregnancies\u201D on purpose, because it is not just births to teens; we have also seen a mass reduction in the abortion rate in this country as well. So unwanted pregnancies to our teens have dropped by over 40 percent in the last few years, and that is giving those girls opportunities. Hey, I am the biggest proponent of babies and more of them, and a teen mum can be incredibly successful in life, but equally we want them to have opportunities. There is plenty of evidence that says the best opportunity that you can give to a young woman is for her to be educated and for her to be in a stable home, in a warm environment, and to have some work experience behind her before she starts a family. So I am backing them in that. So I want them to have babies, and I want them to have fantastic families and be full of aspiration, but if we can actually back them to be planning that so that suits them and their home, then that is certainly something that I stand proudly by. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EYou can see the significance of the difference that that will make for them in their lives while they are still teens, but, more important, for when they do go on to be mums in the families that they raise. I do not think we acknowledge that enough, in this country\u2014the kind of family planning that is now going on, the differences it has made in our health system for those girls. But, more significantly, I think the educational achievements that they are able to get to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc6626e1cb4641eb9acc47c9ed5091d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc6626e1cb4641eb9acc47c9ed5091d0\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chair. I am pleased to speak in this estimates debate. I would like to stick with the M\u0101ori development sector, which is spearheaded by Te Puni K\u014Dkiri. Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, as we know, means in M\u0101ori \u201Ca group of people moving forward\u201D. If you could think of Te Matatini\u2014think of our kapa haka teams\u2014and the precision and the power with which they move, that is really what we should envisage from Te Puni K\u014Dkiri. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EAlas, it is very much not that. Te Puni K\u014Dkiri in 2015 is in a shambles. It is in disarray because there is a lack of leadership from the Minister over his ministry. It is evidenced because we had the chief executive and her senior team come to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee earlier in the year. There has been a never-ending restructure happening within Te Puni K\u014Dkiri during the current chief executive officer\u2019s tenure. When we asked the question as to when this restructuring will be completed and when it will have its executive team in place, the chief executive said: \u201COh, by the end of this year.\u201D By the end of this year, to get an executive team in place? Prior to that, the restructuring had taken 2 years already. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWhat we have is really inept leadership. It goes further than that, because we know, we understand, that there is a breakdown in the relationship between this Minister and the chief executive. It is widely known around town that there is a dysfunctional relationship there, so much so that this Minister is now going directly to staff and interfering. He has gone rogue in terms of trying to get his projects done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe have very real concerns about Te Puni K\u014Dkiri. There is no great group moving forward. This is a shambles. It is evidenced by asking what the Minister has actually produced. We have rising unemployment in this country. We have plummeting dairy prices. There is a great deal of concern out there. Families are on the cusp of poverty. This is a very real concern. So what has this Minister and his ministry come up with? Well, the first piece of legislation that we have waited for, which has come through to this House, is a M\u0101ori Purposes Bill that updates a private wh\u0101nau trust in the Gisborne area from last century. It updates it for the 1993 Te Ture Whenua Maori Act, which is going to be amended next year. That is the priority that this Minister has set in terms of his legislative programme. That is absolutely appalling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe have also seen the debacle around the M\u0101ori Language (Te Reo M\u0101ori) Bill. Mr Chair, I will not bring you into this debate, but members of our select committee are well aware that we have been very charitable, I would say, to this Minister. We know that there were deep problems with the bill that was sent to us at the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. We have been very accommodating of this Minister, to give him every opportunity to try to resurrect the bill and address some of the deep flaws that are contained therein. We are not through the woods yet. It rests on our select committee to complete the job, and hopefully we can get there and come up with a workable piece of legislation. But as it stands, again it is a failure by this Minister and a lack of leadership. He should just have scrapped it and started again, right from the start, which is what all of M\u0101oridom was talking about and telling him to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ECan I go on to Wh\u0101nau Ora. The Minister who just resumed her seat, the Hon Paula Bennett, said that Wh\u0101nau Ora is working. Well, I would hope that Wh\u0101nau Ora is working, because in the first 4 years of Wh\u0101nau Ora there was $137.6 million spent on it, a third of which, over $40 million, was spent on administration and research and evaluation\u2014$40 million. So I would really hope that Wh\u0101nau Ora is working, because that is an incredible amount of money, which the Auditor-General actually pointed out should have been going directly to wh\u0101nau in need, which is what the kaupapa of Wh\u0101nau Ora is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI could go on to Treaty settlements. I am looking forward to progressing the first readings of some settlement legislation that is coming through the House tomorrow. That is a positive piece of work that we are doing as a select committee. We are not all negative. We do actually work cohesively together to progress that very important work. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5e067bbc5494fe28ffa260af6701486\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5e067bbc5494fe28ffa260af6701486\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I will start by just saying that I agree with the Minister on two issues\u2014one is that Wh\u0101nau Ora is working, and we know that from all of the stories. Even the Auditor-General set out some really clear stories of how the approach, which is long term, wraparound and about the wh\u0101nau as a whole, is making appreciable, major differences to how wh\u0101nau are operating and to their wellness. There are issues with other parts of Wh\u0101nau Ora\u2014the evaluation, how the money is being spent, and the administration\u2014but the concept itself is working. The worst thing that we can do is attack it, such that we lose the advantage of the great outcomes from this rethinking about how we deal with wh\u0101nau as a whole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EAlso, I would agree with Minister Paula Bennett about education being such an important part of a young woman\u2019s way out of poverty. I would urge her to reconsider then the benefit that both she and I received as young women on our own with small babies, from what was then a very full training incentive allowance grant, which allowed us to have more resources to pursue our educational dreams. In my case, it was law school. Under the current situation with the training incentive allowance, women are simply not in the same position that I was in 20 years ago to be able to access that level of education because resources are so tight. I am absolutely, 100 percent supportive of investing in the education of young women in order to improve their life outcomes. I wish that we could do more. I think that we could do more if it were a genuine priority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWhat I want to address tonight, in just a few minutes, is Vote M\u0101ori Development, particularly with regard to housing. The M\u0101ori Affairs Committee asked about housing when the Minister came before it, because we know that housing is such a major issue for M\u0101ori, and the Minister agreed with that. The Minister agreed that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri was preparing to take on more responsibility in leading housing initiatives for M\u0101ori. He assured us that the ministry would be making all possible efforts because housing is so closely tied to poverty. I agree with this. We need to make sure that we have secure housing, both rental housing and also homeownership for M\u0101ori, and that that is a core way of making sure that wh\u0101nau are secure and healthy in their own homes, so that they can then pursue their dreams for themselves and their kids. But we have to be aware of the facts. We now have the lowest M\u0101ori homeownership rate in this country in decades\u2014decades and decades\u2014because of an erosion of support, with a particular focus on the needs of M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau when it comes to housing. According to the 2013 census, only 28 percent of M\u0101ori own a home now. That is half of the P\u0101keh\u0101 rate\u2014the P\u0101keh\u0101 rate is around 57 percent. It is at the lowest end. It should not be getting any worse, but, in fact, it is eroding over time. The number of M\u0101ori in homeownership is declining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWhen we asked the Minister about homeownership, he also recognised these critical issues. He said there was more money for Te Puni K\u014Dkiri to help wh\u0101nau towards homeownership, but there were no firm plans by Te Puni K\u014Dkiri for any house-purchasing initiatives, it says here in the report. But, in fact, there are some significant programmes, and I just want to mention two of them, which are the K\u0101inga Whenua programme for infrastructure grants, and also the individual loans that are available. The K\u0101inga Whenua programme has enormous potential. It enables wh\u0101nau to build homes on, or to move homes to, collectively owned M\u0101ori land. So it is a way of our using land that we may not be able to put into productive use for housing in rural areas, where it is so essentially needed\u2014and good quality, properly insulated housing; housing that has good heating and that is safe for wh\u0101nau to live in. We need more of that, but at this time of highest need, we are seeing these funds\u2014these programmes\u2014just not being promoted in such a way that wh\u0101nau are accessing them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn the years between July 2011 and August 2014 there were only 10 individual K\u0101inga Whenua loans\u201410 in those 4 years. There was only one in the previous year. Only three of those 10 have been this year\u2014three individual loans to wh\u0101nau looking to build on M\u0101ori land. It is not enough. There have been M\u0101ori organisations getting involved with the social housing fund and with the K\u0101inga Whenua infrastructure grants, but they are still too few.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u00225645943bc2ea40999faf607dd45fddd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225645943bc2ea40999faf607dd45fddd3\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am very privileged to stand up on behalf of New Zealand First for our estimates debate on the M\u0101ori, other populations, and cultural sector. I am going to talk specifically about the internal affairs section. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EBefore I get started I just want to bring everyone\u2019s attention back to just before we went on our dinner break. There are a number of fine men and women in this Chamber, and one whom I consider to be one of those fine gentlemen is Chris Finlayson. So I was as perplexed as many other people in the Chamber when he was completely off-base and off-tangent in some of his remarks when he was referring to the Rt Hon Winston Peters. It got me thinking that perhaps the problem was that he was just a little bit \u201Changry\u201D\u2014a little bit hungry and angry prior to dinner\u2014and so I have brought him along a Snickers bar, which we could perhaps put in a little wee glass box out the back and break it in case of emergency, so that next time he gets angry in the Chamber he can go out the back and relax himself. I hope he returns well rested and ready to fight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ESpecifically, what I would like to talk about this evening is the Fire Service. Yet again we see another review in the Fire Service. This is the 17th review in the Fire Service in the last 21 years\u201417; this is the 17th review. It begs the question: what is going on? When I trawl through the Budget that was released this year there is not a single, solitary cent, not a dollar, being put forward for our Fire Service, and yet the Government is sitting down and spending more money, yet again, to review the system. It is not fit for purpose, it does not work, and there is no funding allocated to allow this very crucial organisation, which supplies so much for our communities, to move forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ELet me just go through some of these statistics. We have got 17,000 career firefighters around New Zealand currently. We have got 8,300 urban volunteers giving up their time, risking their lives, in helping out in those communities, and another 3,500 rural volunteers. At the moment we have an absolute state of disrepair in a number of the buildings that are actually housing our Fire Service equipment. We have got 79 career stations, 360 volunteer stations, and 187 rural fire forces, and the buildings they are operating out of are barely fit for service. I mean, we are seriously putting our Fire Service people in some perilous situations if this Government does not come up with a better funding model. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ELet us talk about that funding model, because what we are currently hearing from the Minister of Internal Affairs\u2014the \u201CMinister of Reviews\u201D is what we should be retitling him\u2014is an idea that we are going to put search and rescue and the urban search and rescue into the Fire Service. Well, that does make sense. Accolades are to be given where credit is due, and credit is due there. However, the silos in which this Government places all of our emergency service providers are not fit for purpose. We have got the likes of Surf Life Saving New Zealand providing safety, education, and saving lives, and which is also doing the job of search and rescue, and working hard and volunteering its time, efforts, and energies on the beaches around New Zealand\u201477 surf clubs around the country. Then, of course, you have got Coastguard, which does another fantastic job of rescuing people at sea\u2014search and rescue, looking for them\u2014and yet there is very little correlation, or an organisation that can be put under a single heading that enables it to be funded as a whole and to be taken seriously as an emergency service provider. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EWhen we look at whether it is a fit for purpose issue and what the Fire Service actually provides with its urban search and rescue and with its search and rescue around the country\u2014it puts out fires. Who do we call when the rain comes down and the floods come in, Mr Muller? That is right\u2014your local fire brigade. The number of times it has been out there on the streets, pumping water, clearing out people\u2019s houses\u2014when your cat gets stuck in a tree, who do you call? The local fire brigade, Mr Muller\u2014that is correct. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, as we go on, the Fire Service is the first port of call when we have an issue relating to emergency service providers. Who do we call when there is a car accident? Who comes along and issues and administers first aid? It is the Fire Service. Yet we have got these silo situations where the Government is putting these organisations into various blocs and underfunding them and there is complete and utter under-investment within this service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ELet me just bring your attention\u2014I am speaking quite quickly because 5 minutes goes so fast when you are in the Chamber\u2014to an Official Information Act request. It was the Minister\u2019s briefing, so it was officially released. It says: \u201CThere is an under-investment in rural fire reduction and readiness, and the changing service scope is making it difficult for the commission to adapt to new demands.\u201D We need to be fit for purpose; we need to be up and ready for the 21st century. I doubt that this review is actually going to do much with regard to what the Government is going to do to put funding into this absolutely vital\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u00221d935f26483f405f877c530e24e0c862\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d935f26483f405f877c530e24e0c862\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to stand to take this 5-minute call on the M\u0101ori development area of this theme. But before I do that I just want to make a few comments about a previous speaker. It does sadden me, and kind of makes me really angry, that people can stand in this Chamber on the Opposition benches and have a go at our outstanding Minister for M\u0101ori Development. The great work that he has been doing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265a636acdb3f4acaa1fd77d7dd39d712\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s called accountability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbbc7a2702534f46992407bfeb788aab\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014listen, listen\u2014he has taken on the challenges, and he is coping very well with the work that he is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI want to support Te Puni K\u014Dkiri and the restructure there. This is a senior executive manager who knows what she is doing. She is doing a marvellous job there, and I do take umbrage at the fact that people can stand in this Chamber and have a crack at her after the good work that she is doing. The work that she does is not easy\u2014it is not easy when you are restructuring a ministry as complex as Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2014but I believe that the work that she is doing is going to be of great value to Te Puni K\u014Dkiri in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EMy next k\u014Drero is about Wh\u0101nau Ora. I worked in Wh\u0101nau Ora and I helped in its development on the ground\u2014on the ground. I have seen the wh\u0101nau, I have talked with the wh\u0101nau, and I have interviewed the wh\u0101nau that Wh\u0101nau Ora has helped. When Wh\u0101nau Ora first came about, yes, it was a new concept, but many Opposition members thought it should just start off like it had been going for many, many years. It takes time for good things to mature, and Wh\u0101nau Ora is one of those programmes that will take time. It is developing the goods. You just need to talk to some of the wh\u0101nau whom it has helped over the 4 to 5 years that it has been operating. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EWe talked a little bit, I also heard, in the Committee about homeownership and M\u0101ori homeownership. The Minister for M\u0101ori Development has done the most amazing thing, which has never been done by any Government before but which has been done in coalition with the National Government, and that is being able to build houses on M\u0101ori land. In the past that was never able to be done. They are able to actually access loans to do that. I am very proud of what he has done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EWhen we start to look at other areas within the M\u0101ori development portfolio under Vote M\u0101ori Development, we can look at Healthy Families New Zealand. This is a project that Jonathan Coleman launched in the East Cape just recently, in April. It is the Healthy Families East Cape project, which belongs to the lead provider Te Whare Hauora o Te Aitanga a Hauiti. They established\u2014hello\u2014a Wh\u0101nau Ora collective called the Horouta Whanaunga Collective, a collective that comprises 17 providers and nine iwi groups. It is a collective that has come together to address health issues at a local level. At the end of the day, where we are the most effective is with helping our own, working with our own, and coming up with the decisions and the outcomes at a local level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003ESo when I look at M\u0101ori health, I see that over 50 percent of M\u0101ori are now enrolled in these low-cost, accessible primary health organisations. I was there at the start of all of that time when primary health organisations were being developed, and at one stage we thought that M\u0101ori were going to miss out on that. But low-cost M\u0101ori primary health organisations came about, and so we have 350,000 M\u0101ori enrolled in them, paying up to $18 for a GP visit, which is great for M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau, as is the new announcement on 1 July of free GP visits for under-13s. That has never been done in the history of this Parliament, and it was the National-led Government that pulled all of that together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EEducation, as I have said many times, is freedom. It is freedom to make choices, and the tertiary education area for trades academies is one area that M\u0101ori have shone in. I want to talk just a little bit about the Ng\u0101i Tahu He Toki ki te Rika. That is pre-trades training that was developed post-earthquake in 2011, and it has over 800 students enrolled in it. Just recently, in April, the Prime Minister was hosted by Ng\u0101i Tahu, where he launched He Toki ki te Mahi Apprenticeship Training Trust programme, and that has 10 to 15 apprentice carpenters. This is great news for M\u0101ori. It is great news for iwi because of the steps, the benchmark, and the power that iwi can have within the tertiary sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI am very proud to stand here and speak on Vote M\u0101ori Development. I am a M\u0101ori; I support all M\u0101ori things\u2014it does not matter what colour the politics are. I support M\u0101ori achieving, and everybody in this Chamber should be looking at that and at every which way we can help. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022 data-id=\u002262feeef11b2545098b6bb9e36270746a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262feeef11b2545098b6bb9e36270746a\u0022\u003ESARAH DOWIE (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and take this call in this debate with such wide-ranging topics. As we have heard, they include Vote Arts, Culture and Heritage, Vote Internal Affairs, Vote M\u0101ori Development, Vote Pacific Peoples, Vote Sport and Recreation, and Vote Women. I think it is really important, and it is a pleasure to say, as the lead National member for the Government Administration Committee\u2014as I acknowledge Nuk Korako, the lead National member for the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u2014that these disciplines require attention. They do encompass a richness that is New Zealand, and it is wonderful to rise and speak about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EI am actually going to focus on sport and recreation, and change tack here. I will talk about some of the wonderful things that sport and recreation does. Of course, sport is in our blood as New Zealanders, and we usually use sport to signal our prowess on the world stage, but it is more than that. Sport and being active means having a healthy lifestyle, and it is through Sport New Zealand that $7 million is taken from Vote Health and put into Kiwisport, which is a fantastic programme. It recognises the importance of getting children involved in sports. It designs games for little people. It educates them about the needs of health, and sport as part of that. Obviously, sport helps them with their cooperation and teamwork, builds their self-esteem, and adds to an all-round healthy lifestyle. So I want to acknowledge that that is a great programme that Sport New Zealand is involved in, and certainly it adds to the healthy lifestyle that we need in New Zealand to tackle some of those problems that we see in our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EI had the pleasure on 7 July of actually stepping in for the Hon Dr Coleman and launching the Healthy Families New Zealand initiative in Invercargill. That is an initiative that is based on the Victorian model that has seen significant improvements in health and it creates a platform for getting people involved in an active lifestyle. Invercargill was one of the 10 communities that were selected. It was selected on a range of different factors, but mainly because, unfortunately, in Invercargill there is a prevalence of some diseases that can be prevented through having a healthy lifestyle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a84c2c8f3f20464f8d509083fedca0f6\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s cold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b95a31663974044b993d000581ca90d\u0022\u003ESARAH DOWIE\u003C/span\u003E: It is not just cold, but sport plays a really big part in Invercargill. So it is important to get that initiative going and to start auditing the community and looking at the wins that we can create by getting people involved in sport and understanding the drivers of what creates a healthy lifestyle, along with eating plans and just getting people active.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EThat involves stakeholders coming together, all within the health field, and they audit, basically, the community and look at the different health organisations that are out there. The sporting organisations come together and they look at what they are doing already so that they can look for easy wins to educate those people who are at risk of different diseases that can be prevented, like diabetes. They come together and look at establishing programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EOne of those programmes is through Volleyball Southland. It was my pleasure to meet some of the people who play volleyball through Sport Southland. It has community teams, school teams, ethnic teams, and teams through the Southern Institute of Technology. Again, it is a great way to meet people, to engage in your community, to make friends, and to build self-esteem, but, obviously, it is also about getting active and learning about being healthy. So through that initiative, we are encouraging families to live healthy lives, and obviously Sport New Zealand is part of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EI want to touch on Vote Women, and one of the wonderful initiatives that is the brainchild of the Hon Louise Upston. That is the research into family violence and violence against M\u0101ori women. I had the pleasure of going\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EVote Arts, Culture and Heritage, Vote Internal Affairs, Vote M\u0101ori Development, Vote Pacific Peoples, Vote Sport and Recreation, Vote Statistics, Vote Treaty Negotiations, and Vote Women agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd417c52647e45dfade104870a410fdd\u0022\u003EPrimary Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002293ac4bfb7dd941f29bcefb938cb2708b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293ac4bfb7dd941f29bcefb938cb2708b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to the votes in the primary sector\u2014volume B.5, volume 9. The question is that Vote Lands and Vote Primary Industries and Food Safety stand part of the schedules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022aee0b5c21c9e4a73b7555b9f73c2b5f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aee0b5c21c9e4a73b7555b9f73c2b5f0\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (Chairperson of the Primary Production Committee):\u003C/span\u003E What an interesting time to chair the Primary Production Committee and to lead the discussion in this estimates debate. The committee considered the estimates for Vote Lands and Vote Primary Industries and Food Safety, and, of course, those are the areas of Ministers Guy, Goodhew, and Upston. I think we need to look back a little to look forward at this time. Looking back at the ministries that merged to create the Ministry for Primary Industries, and the Ministry for Primary Industries as it has moved through that process in the last few years, there have been some very testing times faced, but there have been a couple of factors that I think have emphasised the value of that merger. The fruit fly outbreak in Auckland earlier in the year has been very successfully combatted by an extremely strong team. The 1080 contamination threat was also, in my view, very well handled in a very difficult environment by a very strong and capable ministry performing cohesively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe recent Budget provided some $179 million for border control and domestic biosecurity risk matters, and $24.9 million more has been allocated to border security in increased dog and X-ray - based facilities. I myself witnessed this in action last Wednesday on returning through Auckland Airport with the New Zealand Special Olympics team from the Special Olympics World Summer Games, and a very successful team it was, too. But it was really quite impressive to watch the performance of the\u2014[Interruption] thank you\u2014biosecurity team at Auckland Airport and, in fact, the things that I suppose you could call hounds, really, and I guess that if you are a member of the hunting fraternity, they most certainly were hounds. But they were very impressive and I think the system is working really well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe Animal Welfare Amendment Bill passed through this Parliament some 3 or 4 months ago, and more money has been provided for this critical leg of our productive sector. The money will ensure that the very high standards we have in this area are maintained and improved, which is a really important factor for New Zealand agriculture. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EFood safety is the second critical leg of our No. 1 industry, and some $103 million will be spent on ensuring that this most important area remains secure. It is quite a challenging area for us, and, of course, when you think of our place in the world food industry, and our place in food supplies generally, it is absolutely critical that this sector of our economy is maintained and maintained very strongly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe Minister in the chair, Nathan Guy, has faced some challenges in this role\u2014some pretty significant challenges: the whey protein concentrate scare; the 1080 threat, which Minister Goodhew, of course, was very strongly a part of as well; and the fruit fly incursion, and the way they have handled those just shows the strength of our biosecurity system. The Rangit\u012Bkei, Wanganui, and South Taranaki flood event just recently is going to make a significant dent and cause some significant impact on our economy\u2014our local economy in my electorate, particularly, and, of course, in Mr Chairperson Borrows\u2019 electorate as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe downturn in dairy prices is certainly a testing issue for us, but not one that we in agriculture find unusual. We have gone through these things many times in my lifetime in farming, and we will go through many more of them. It is just the cycle we go through in agriculture and food supply, and I think it will always happen. It is very difficult to protect us from it. We have never achieved that in 150 years of farming in this country, and I do not suppose we will in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EHas not Fonterra, which is so often criticised in this House, done such a great job in the last few days of supporting its cooperative members, with its 50c announcement last week pointing very strongly to the value of a strong cooperative? It is something the kiwifruit industry is benefiting from right at this minute, and something that the Meat Industry Excellence group would dearly love the meat industry to achieve as well. It really does point to the strength of having a cooperative in a very small economy. I think it is most important that we have this kind of strength and that those cooperatives and the companies that operate in New Zealand have the confidence in the Ministry for Primary Industries\u2014and in the various ministries, I guess\u2014to ensure that our industry stays in the prime position it is in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI want to touch on building capacity through investment in the Primary Growth Partnership and people, and three aspects of that in particular. I want to talk about the Precision Seafood Harvesting Primary Growth Partnership project, which is really, when you think about the potential it has got, going to achieve some hugely exciting opportunities for New Zealand and for the New Zealand fishing industry. If it can achieve what it certainly looks as though it will achieve, we are going to see our fishing industry restocked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022a90a18d278e24c7481de97bc823981a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a90a18d278e24c7481de97bc823981a8\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E If ever there is an area of Government responsibility where there is failure, it has got to be in the primary industries. The farmers\u2019 friend\u2014that is the National Party, the farmers\u2019 friend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWell, well, well, let us have a look at what we have got facing the agricultural sectors at the moment. My colleague Stuart Nash will talk about forestry, but I will just focus on a few things. I welcomed the speech from the previous speaker, Ian McKelvie, because he has pointed out fruit fly and 1080 contamination, a $100 million tax on travellers to pay for biosecurity, WPC80, and failure after failure to carry out what the farmers would consider friendly policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe have a superministry that is responsible for so much it is failing in almost every single area of its responsibility. The dairy industry is a classic example of an outcome of a Government that has failed to lead as it should have. The Government facilitated the capital restructure of Fonterra because John Key wanted his mates in the stock exchange to have a few units to play around with. What that has done is left the company distracted, to the point where it has had its eye off the ball. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe National Government and its friends have been happy to trade in Fonterra units, and the company is now floundering around. Yes, there is an international challenge, but ask T\u0101tua what it is doing and ask the suppliers of Fonterra in Australia what is happening with payment for their milk. They are being paid considerably more than poor old Fonterra and Westland Cooperative Dairy\u2014dare I say it, as well\u2014as suppliers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI have to say that the Government has made lots of noise, but it has not done much. The Primary Growth Partnership, referred to by the previous speaker, has been a failure. The Office of the Auditor-General investigated six of the schemes and found no real economic benefit, and many of those schemes were over halfway through their completion\u2014no real economic benefit. It said that it could not identify \u201Cadditionality\u201D, which was its polite word for saying: \u201CThis should have been business as usual, and the Government spent money, and we haven\u2019t really seen any additional benefit.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EBiosecurity is the Minister\u2019s No. 1 priority, and in the first year of the National Government it slashed funding and it has been playing catch up ever since. This year\u2019s proposal is a tax of $100 million on New Zealanders and foreigners flying in and out of this country to pay for biosecurity because the Government does not want to commit real money to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EToday we had some indication\u2014but not a promise\u2014that there will be 100 percent baggage screening, or a trial of it. We in Labour implemented 100 percent baggage screening, and we had no fruit fly incursions. The Government removed it, and we have had four incursions, with potentially huge and damaging results for our economy. If it was the Asian fruit fly, not the Queensland one, we would be in a desperate situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere has been no leadership in the meat sector. We have at the moment a temporary beneficial situation for the beef industry. The lamb and sheep industries are still floundering around. Meat Industry Excellence and the farmers themselves are asking for leadership from the Minister, and it is nowhere to be seen. Although the previous speaker talked of the cooperatives\u2014and I support them too\u2014the Alliance Group and Silver Fern Farms have not been serving the meat industry and all the players as they should have been, and indeed their suppliers have not been served that well, as well. They want leadership, they want vision, and they want a clear direction that will provide a better alternative than in the dairy industry, which, at the moment, is floundering around. Although people may say it is not a crisis, go and ask a farmer who is facing the banks and negotiating their way to a future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIt is a tough situation brought about by a Government that is laissez-faire and is prepared to accept market signals. The member at the back there, Todd Muller, the ex-Zespri employee, was nodding his head about the wonderful management from Government. Zespri is there because of the Labour Government and its legislation, discipline, and leadership, which we were prepared to show in Government, but this Government has not been prepared to show that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe farmers out there want better leadership, they want some direction, and they want a vision. They have failed to get any from this Government from the expenditure that they have seen through the primary industry sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022985585cfefb5425ea5b74a3e6dabf33a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022985585cfefb5425ea5b74a3e6dabf33a\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E Well, there we heard a very interesting speech from Damien O\u2019Connor. What we did not hear when he was talking about the border levy was that when he was the Minister of Tourism he proposed the exact same thing. He is nodding now. Did you see him nodding? He just said, for the Hansard record, that he did. So he did propose a border levy when he was the Minister of Tourism in the Labour Government. Now he stands up and says it is terrible that the National Government is indeed implementing, in part, what he was proposing. So he has forgotten what he was proposing in several speeches when, indeed, he was the Minister of Tourism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI was so disappointed that that member would not support the border levy when we proposed it on the back of the Budget. In fact, we did not hear a squeak from that member. He could not get on a plane to the West Coast quickly enough and he hoped that no one would discover the fact that he proposed a border levy in the dying days of the Labour Government, and now he has forgotten. Looking at his face over there, we know that he proposed it\u2014and look at that grin. It tells you a thousand words. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWe should indeed be supporting the primary sector. We support the primary sector on this side of the Chamber. We celebrate the success of an industry and a sector that generates around $4 million an hour in terms of export earnings for this country. I am the first one to acknowledge it is tough times for the dairy industry right now. It is very tough times, but I will also acknowledge that the medium to long term outlook for the dairy industry is extremely bright, and our farmers know that. Our farmers know that this is a period of short-term volatility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe doomsayers on that side of the Chamber just want to talk it down. Yet again we hear Andrew Little and Damien O\u2019Connor and others saying: \u201CIt\u2019s a crisis! It\u2019s a crisis!\u201D. Well, we had the manufacturing crisis the day that all the parties, pretty much, on the other side of the House proposed that. Actually, manufacturing has started to grow and has never looked back. So the dairy sector will get through this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EOf course, what is not acknowledged\u2014and I was talking about it earlier in the House today\u2014is that our red meat sector, particularly beef, is going incredibly well. That is also happening with our viticulture and our kiwifruit. Kiwifruit has, from memory, got up to $1.42 billion in export earnings. Zespri has blown through the high level of $1 billion and is almost back above pre-Psa returns, which is fantastic. Also, our forestry sector is starting to grow and is waiting for new opportunities in the US. I know that Minister Goodhew will make some comments about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat we also should not forget, importantly, is the future of seafood. It is great to see in the outlook for primary industries that seafood is forecast to grow to $1.8 billion by 2019 on the back of aquaculture growth. Not a lot happened in aquaculture when Labour was in Government. There is a lot of potential under this Government for aquaculture to grow and prosper, more so than under the Labour Government. So this Government has a focus on supporting our exporters through the tough times, and, actually, a big part of the primary sector is growing incredibly well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe No. 1 priority for me is biosecurity. That is why we invested $27 million in this year\u2019s Budget. We made an announcement just last week that there will be 20 more detector dog teams, more X-ray machines, more people on the front line, more auditing of in-country audits and import health standards, etc. There will be a real focus on biosecurity because you cannot grow exports unless you focus on the \u201Cprotect\u201D part, which is biosecurity\u2014and food safety, where Minister Goodhew is doing an outstanding job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAlso, trade is hugely important\u2014new market access opportunities\u2014and that is why we are very optimistic about the Trans-Pacific Partnership. It is going to be interesting when those negotiations land, just to see where political parties across the House actually fall. Who will actually support the Trans-Pacific Partnership? It will be very interesting to see whether Mr Little can support the Trans-Pacific Partnership. I imagine that Labour\u2019s caucus is split. I imagine its caucus is split down the middle. You will have Sue Moroney there talking out of one side of her mouth. You will have David Shearer and Phil Goff and the guys like David Parker, who have a bit of an outward focus, realising that New Zealand is not going to grow our wealth unless we sell things to the world, and we sell 45 percent into those 11 countries that are involved in the Trans-Pacific Partnership. There are huge opportunities there. I am delighted that Minister Groser landed a free-trade agreement with Korea, and Taiwan is also proving to be a very important, new, and emerging market for us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWe should not forget about irrigation, particularly in North Canterbury, where they are still battling through very dry times. I know the local member will no doubt comment on that this evening, because he has been in touch. I am looking forward to visiting North Canterbury in the next week or so. It is going to be hugely exciting when stage one of Central Plains Water storage opens. That is a massive project on the outskirts of Christchurch City. Everyone is talking about the Christchurch rebuild; no one actually realises that just out there on the Canterbury Plains hundreds of millions of dollars are being invested in farming, improving water quality, improving the environment, improving productivity, and growing our exports. We should be backing water storage projects. This Government has a real focus on water storage. We collect and store only about 2 percent of the rain that falls in this country. The rest roars out to sea. There are huge opportunities to do more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIn the final couple of minutes I have got I also want to talk about the regional economy. We have got four studies under way in East Coast - Hawke\u2019s Bay, Northland, the Bay of Plenty, and the one that was announced recently, Manawat\u016B-Whanganui, which covers the whole Horizons Regional Council area. What these studies show is that there is a huge amount of potential and upside in these regional economies, particularly in the primary sector\u2014particularly in red meat, sheep and beef production, dairy, and also horticulture expansion. So the Ministry for Primary Industries with the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment and Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, will be working with regional leaders to lift the performance of these four regions. These four regions\u2014Mr McKelvie talked about it before, and he is well in touch with the potential of his region, as is Chester Borrows, the other local MP there, and Jono Naylor\u2014are all linked in with the opportunities of this regional growth study for the lower North Island. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAlso, we have got a real focus on skills, because we know that we need to attract about another 50,000 into the primary sector over the next 10 years or so. About half of them will need to be tertiary qualified or have level 4 qualifications. So they will be your food safety scientists. They will be your robotic engineers. They will be your environmental planners. Agriculture is actually becoming a lot more sophisticated. So we have got to attract the youngest and brightest into a big part of the New Zealand economy. We have got to celebrate success. We have also got to retain and upskill our primary sector capability. Of course, we cannot do that here in Wellington, and the Government should not be doing it on its own, so we are reaching out to industry. And when I say \u201Cwe\u201D, we have got some work under way with the Ministry for Primary Industries and the Ministry of Education working closer together, looking at pilots in the likes of Ashburton, Picton, and Kerikeri. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThere is huge potential in Ashburton for sheep and beef production, and also dairying and arable, and we are bringing in the local principals so that they understand that there are jobs in their local communities. In Picton it is about viticulture and it is about aquaculture. In Kerikeri it is about sheep and beef and dairying and horticulture. So it makes sense that we wrap our arms around industry and get in touch with the principals of those local schools to make sure that they understand there are jobs in their local economies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EFinally, we should be backing the primary sector. The Committee this evening should stand up and say that the primary sector matters. We back it, more so than the Opposition parties, because we know it is hugely important to the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022 data-id=\u00221982fbb4d367429d8b8299610989edb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221982fbb4d367429d8b8299610989edb3\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. This year the 2015-16 appropriation for the Primary Growth Partnership was $69.8 million, almost $70 million. I want to discuss tonight a recipient of Primary Growth Partnership money, PGG Wrightson Seeds, and touch on the national policy statement on plantation forestry, which the Ministry for Primary Industries has been road-showing recently, and the very unfortunate direction that this Government appears to be heading in with agricultural research, biotechnology, and loss of community choice. As I point out the toxic direction of current AgResearch in New Zealand, we must be mindful that there is a fantastic opportunity in organic agriculture that can be very profitable for \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D, while mitigating much of our greenhouse gas emissions and reducing nutrient leaching. It will be hundreds of percent better than conventional methods in product value in dairy alone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EPGG Wrightson has said that it wants to compete with GE giant Monsanto, and it has been on that path since Dr Allan Freeth, the next chief executive of the Environmental Protection Authority, set it on that path when he was chief executive officer and managing director of PGG Wrightson. He also got PGG Wrightson to buy into Genesis, which was experimenting with GE grasses and was working with ArborGen on GE trees, an unusual appointment for the arbitrator of GE in our environment. PGG Wrightson developed herbicide-tolerant swedes with Dupont and a couple of failed GE scientists\u2014scientists who had happily broken the important conditions of the previous GE field trials that the Environmental Protection Authority had set and had assured us that those conditions would deal with any risks. But those scientists happily broke those conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EPGG Wrightson and the scientists thought that they were really clever and used chemical mutagenesis instead of GE. They did both, actually, but they popped the other ones out in the market so that they could avoid regulatory oversight and avoid safety tests and the apparently irksome conditions of use. The unexpected happened, as can occur with GE and other DNA-disruptive technologies such as that chemical mutagenesis. Hundreds of cows and sheep died, and many more were sick because, in part, it appears that there was an unexpected increase of up to 16 times the natural toxin. A dangerous and unexpected result from a non-regulated technology that is based on the use of three herbicides and DNA disruption\u2014nothing sustainable. That is PGG Wrightson\u2019s direction, and this Government is funding Chinese-owned PGG Wrightson for more of the same, but funding almost zilch for the organics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI want to touch on the National Environmental Standard for Plantation Forestry. I note that somehow the Government wants, through the National Environmental Standard for Plantation Forestry, to bring in GE trees if the Environmental Protection Authority, headed by PGG Wrightson, a promoter of GE trees and grasses\u2014it wants to allow GE trees to be decided by only that arbitrator, the Environmental Protection Authority, and it has made loads of mistakes in the past. I can go through every one of them, if necessary. In every field trial that the Environmental Risk Management Authority, now the Environmental Protection Authority, has done in recent years, the major condition of consent for approval has been breached, and yet this Government says, through that national environment standard, that local councils and local communities will not be able to decide for their own region whether the Environmental Protection Authority should grant genetically engineered trees. It looks like a cook-up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EOur communities want to be able to sell top-notch product overseas as GM-free and from areas such as Hawke\u2019s Bay. Pure Hawke\u2019s Bay reckons that $100 billion\u2014sorry, $1 billion\u2014[Interruption] Yes, yes, I am getting my figures. One of the producers is working on $100 million on its own, but $1 billion of product from the Hawke\u2019s Bay is going out as being from GM-free Hawke\u2019s Bay. How can that carry on if this Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022803dc8e3f01448f5b632f611813b42d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022803dc8e3f01448f5b632f611813b42d9\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E What an extraordinary speech from the Minister for Primary Industries, Nathan Guy. Is there a Minister in this House who is more out of touch with his portfolio and heartland New Zealand\u2014[Bell rung] Mr Chair\u2014second call, Mr Chair? Can I start again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c7d7cd8f53b42508957f17fef66da36\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ad215549b1f406595f58eafaf68a622\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Is there a Minister more out of touch? First of all, he stands up and talks about the value of the regional economy. Well, those of us who are regional MPs know this. I am sick to death about hearing that the regions are failing, because they are not. Regions like Hawke\u2019s Bay are doing well in spite of this Government. In fact, you have got two mayors who are saying: \u201CWhere is the plan? Where is the strategy from this Government around regional economic development?\u201D. The Government has not got one. Then we get a Minister who stands up and says: \u201CYou\u2019ve got to concentrate on primary industries.\u201D Really? There are three major variables for success in the primary industries: one, climate; two, exchange rate; three, commodity prices. And do you know what? We have no ability to control any of those three. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo why should we concentrate on an area where we have no ability to control? Sure, we are the first to admit that primary industries are the backbone of the Hawke\u2019s Bay economy. They provide around about 45 percent of the revenue into Hawke\u2019s Bay. It is an incredibly important part of our local economy. But let me inform the Minister: there is more to primary industries than red meat and dairy, especially in Hawke\u2019s Bay. There is the wine industry, which the Minister for Economic Development had the nerve to stand up and tell this House is doing really well, as the Government whacks an excise tax on it. The wineries are so annoyed with this Government because it taxes them more. These guys cannot get a break. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe apple industry is finally doing really, really well in Hawke\u2019s Bay. But do you know what? We do have a problem with labour supply in the regions, and the Government\u2019s response to this is Recognised Seasonal Employer (RSE) scheme workers. I have a philosophical problem with the RSE scheme, because what we are doing is we are bringing workers in from overseas when there are a whole lot of unemployed people in Hawke\u2019s Bay. The problem with it is that we actually need them at this point in time. We need them because getting these unemployed people off the dole and into work is proving close to impossible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWhat we really would like this Government to do, what the industry would like this Government to do, is come up with solutions. It has not had a solution in 7 years, so, yet again, it is up to Labour to provide solutions for the RSE scheme, and we have got solutions. Meka Whaitiri and I have been working with the industry. We have the answers. All we need is to get into Government and implement these, and what we will do is drive the sort of growth that we need to see in Hawke\u2019s Bay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn terms of the Primary Growth Partnership\u2014I will tell you, this is a very interesting thing. I am hearing more and more as I go around. It is a little surprising, actually, but the, sort of, catchcry is out there. What I hear is: \u201CWe don\u2019t bother with the Primary Growth Partnership\u2014this is just a Minister giving money to his mates.\u201D And I have heard\u2014even the Chair is nodding. Even the Chair is nodding in agreement\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba9bd466f94d4a8da9350d083ec16b71\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Do not bring me into that in the way that you have. You have been here long enough; you know how this place operates. Do not muck around like that with the Chair. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268da3cd485f34251b5f789d633f3ccc3\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I was at a conference just yesterday, and a speaker stood up\u2014we were talking about the Primary Growth Partnership\u2014and this speaker said: \u201CWe don\u2019t even bother. It is the Minister and his mates.\u201D We were at our regional economic caucus. Our economic caucus did a Hawke\u2019s Bay visit last Tuesday. One of the largest employers in the Bay said exactly the same thing: \u201COh, we don\u2019t even bother these days. It\u2019s corporate welfare. It is money for the Minister\u2019s mates.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThen there is forestry\u2014a very, very important part of this local economy. There was a policy workshop for the New Zealand Institute of Forestry yesterday, and the Minister did not even turn up. Not only that, the Minister did not even send anyone along at all, and the word from the forestry sector is that this Government does not care about the forestry sector\u2014this Government does not care about the forestry sector. It does not understand the forestry sector and, as a consequence, the New Zealand Institute of Forestry is trying to develop policy on its own because this Government is not providing anything for it at all. Minister, if you had been there, you would have heard exactly the same as I said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo when I hear this Government talk about the primary industries, all it talks about is dairy\u2014which it has done nothing about\u2014and red meat. What I would love the Minister to do is to start coming up with a strategy around the wine sector, around the apple sector and employment opportunities, around the forestry sector\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022 data-id=\u00226d06393d93bc45ec87800494ae07cbc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d06393d93bc45ec87800494ae07cbc4\u0022\u003ERICHARD PROSSER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to rise to take a call in this Committee of the whole House as we debate the Appropriation (2015/16 Estimates) Bill. Before I start berating the Government and the Minister in the chair, the Hon Nathan Guy, I would like to just take the opportunity to hand out a bit of a bouquet along with the brickbats. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EI want to say a word in support of the Primary Growth Partnership scheme. It is a bit of an anomaly. I really cannot understand why colleagues on this side of the Chamber are so opposed to the Primary Growth Partnership scheme. It is pure socialism. It is absolutely wonderful venture capital from the Government into the primary sector. There is certainly more that can be done with it, and, over time, I have no doubt that there will be more that is done with it, and the Primary Growth Partnership will be extended through other schemes. But notwithstanding Mr Nash\u2019s passion, I do not accept that criticism of the Primary Growth Partnership. I think we have barely scratched the surface of what we can do with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EBut I do want to pick on a couple of areas, a couple of line items, in the estimates. The first is in the multi-category section of the appropriations for primary industries, which includes safety, and it is the appropriation allocated to border and domestic biosecurity risk management. That stands at just under $179 million. As we examined through the Border Processing (Arrivals and Departures) Levy Bill, which was one of the enabling pieces of legislation for the appropriations for the primary sector in this Budget, we discovered through that process that that amount includes the revenue forecast to be collected from international passengers arriving in New Zealand on airlines and cruise ships. And I say \u201Cforecast\u201D because it will take a while for the levy to be designed and a while longer for it to be instituted, and then a while after that for the money to start coming in. Then over a period of time that money from the levy will replace the funding that is currently allocated to biosecurity from general taxation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWe know this because the Minister very slowly and grudgingly admitted, quite tortuously over a period of some time, through gritted teeth\u2014he finally admitted that this new levy was not actually going to amount to any increase in funding for biosecurity, but in fact was only ever going to be a replacement for the current funding arrangements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ESo this appropriation is not actually doing any favours for biosecurity. We are not going to see a return to 100 percent screening of all incoming passengers, we are not going to see the implementation of 100 percent screening of incoming mail and freight, and we are not going to see an improvement on the present rate of about 25 percent, as far as the inspection of shipping containers is concerned. We are not going to see an increase in resourcing for border security officers so that the green lane can be done away with. In fact, this Government is increasing the number of SmartGate entry points rather than reducing them. So we have no more money for boots on the ground, no more money for additional sets of human eyes, and the brains and intuition that goes with them, but we do have more robots\u2014and SmartGate is not a clever robot; it is just a passport reader. It is quite a dumb robot, in fact. This robot is not the \u201CSix Million Dollar Man\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ESo we do not have the \u201CSix Million Dollar Man\u201D, but we do have the $3 million possum. I say that because there is a line item in the non-departmental output expenses column of the appropriation for primary industries that relates to TB vector control. TB vectors are animals that can carry and spread bovine tuberculosis. We need to eradicate bovine TB and keep it out of our cattle and deer herds, and that is a good thing, and the single most important TB vector, we are told, is the possum. Feral deer can carry and spread bovine TB as well, of course, and so can ferrets and pigs and hedgehogs. No one in officialdom seems all that worried about hedgehogs just yet. Rather, it is the humble possum that is tarred with being the single most important TB vector, and this appropriation allocates $30 million to controlling it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003EWell, we know from answers that the Minister has given in reply to written questions that over the past 10 years TBfree New Zealand has autopsied more than 124,000 possums in its search for bovine TB. Of those more than 140,000 possums, 54 were found to have TB, so that is 54 out of more than 124,000\u20140.04 percent\u2014or to put it another way, an average of five and a half possums per year. So going by the averages of the last 10 years we can reasonably expect that this year there might be another five or maybe six possums out there with TB. And they are not the only vector, as I mentioned\u2014TBfree New Zealand has autopsied a number of feral deer as well. Since 2007 it has autopsied a total of 1,751 deer and found that 34 of them had TB. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229dc203b3-21b0-4d4a-a530-746504e05f20\u0022\u003ESo we have had 54 possums over 10 years and 34 deer over 8 years. That works out to an average of a little under 10 wild animals a year that we might expect to be carrying TB, and this Government has allocated a nice, round $30 million in order to control them. That is $3 million per animal. We cannot have our shipping containers inspected, but we can go chasing the $3 million possum. I am sure\u2014I am absolutely certain\u2014that if the Government were to announce a bounty of $3 million a head on any possum, dead or alive, found to be carrying TB, it would get knocked over in the rush of trappers and ground control operators wanting to take on the job. Instead, we are going to carpet bomb thousands of hectares of bush with airdrops of 1080 and kill thousands of native birds and insects and pollinators and lizards and snails\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8466e7b18104aa3a83abc3db6d53389\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8466e7b18104aa3a83abc3db6d53389\u0022\u003EHon JO GOODHEW (Associate Minister for Primary Industries):\u003C/span\u003E It is great to rise and speak on Vote Primary Industries and Food Safety. In particular, I want to cover off on my responsibility for forestry, and also for food safety, within this sector, which is so important to New Zealand. We would not necessarily know it from some of the comments that are coming from the Opposition, but it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003ELet us start with our $4.5 billion forestry sector. This is a sector that is attracting capital from within New Zealand and from overseas at the moment, because if we think about engineered timber, this is the way that this sector can grow to what it has set as a lofty target of $12 billion by 2022. The sector is going to be able to do that only if the much more valuable products are, in fact, put together, and engineered timber is the way for that. What the Government is doing to support this sector is we are getting in place plans for skills development and for the review of New Zealand standard 3603, which allows engineered timber to be used in a standard measure, in a standard fashion, by the sector. It is getting those barriers out of the way that will see that sector continue to grow and reach towards its potential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EI want to touch on the Afforestation Grants Scheme, which was a Budget 2015 announcement\u2014$22.5 million over 6 years. That will see an extra 15,000 hectares planted\u2014but, you know, every week I hear about more businesses going out and planting more. I believe that the tide has turned, and there is much more confidence in the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003ELet me address some of the ill-informed comments from the member from Labour who was on his feet before, Stuart Nash. You see, yes, there was an Institute of Forestry conference yesterday, followed by the DANA Ltd forestry conference this evening. I have just left from the dinner at the DANA conference, and I have been hearing about the Institute of Forestry\u2019s conference yesterday. Back in 2013 the Institute of Forestry asked the Government to put together a forestry sector policy, and I said to it: \u201CWhy doesn\u2019t the forestry sector put it together? Get the politics out of it.\u201D And that is what it has decided to do. Had I been able to attend yesterday, had I not already committed to doing other things yesterday, I would have done so, but instead, in fact, I sent three Ministry for Primary Industries people rather than, as Stuart Nash said, no one. So, in fact, the Opposition members are out of touch on forestry, and they are out of touch on food safety and many other aspects of the primary industries sector as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EYou see, the Recognised Season Employer scheme was mentioned before. Well, the onions do not get packed and the apples do not get picked in my district, in the Rangitata electorate, unless we have workers under the scheme, so that would be millions of dollars out of New Zealand\u2019s primary production sector because we have low unemployment in South Canterbury and cannot get people to pick those particular products. So the scheme is doing a particularly important job down there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EThe wine industry\u2014well, apparently, it needs help! It is going better than ever before, at $1.42 billion in the last year, and is getting really excited about getting geographic indicators from this Government, which will be very important for that sector. The wine industry is having one of its best years, as is kiwifruit. There are great prices for beef\u2014actually, there are lots of things going well, but you would not know it if you talked to the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EI want to briefly mention a trip that I had to Viet Nam, because from this Government\u2019s perspective not only are we trying to get free-trade agreements and understand the benefit that they would be to New Zealand\u2014the Green members could well listen to this\u2014but at the same time we know there are non-tariff barriers that we also need to be out there trying to reduce. On the forestry, and also food safety, front, which was the reason for my visit to Viet Nam last week\u2014it was the week before, in fact\u2014those sorts of non-tariff barriers going into a market that is for the very first time seeing $1 billion of two-way trade will put money into the pockets of New Zealanders. So New Zealand needs to reach out and work out what these non-tariff barriers are, work on them with the politicians and with the officials in the countries like Viet Nam, because, far from just $443 million worth of export produce into Viet Nam, we can do so much better. People in Viet Nam trust us. They trust our food safety systems. They trust our honesty and integrity in exporting products to their nation. They want our technology transferred. They appreciate the fact that we have supported them in aid projects, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022b725624c9acd4d40b6381c13325d0b4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b725624c9acd4d40b6381c13325d0b4c\u0022\u003EMEKA WHAITIRI (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chairman. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. I am happy to take a call on the Appropriation (2015/16 Estimates) Bill on primary industries. Before I do that can I please acknowledge the passing of the last 28th M\u0101ori Battalion veteran from Awatere Valley of Te Wairoa, Te Hei Mauroa Ben Hook; e te rangatira o te Pak\u0101nga Tuarua, haere, haere, haere atu r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI come from a long line of freezing workers and it is from that perspective that I am going to contribute to this vote that we are discussing today. Can I acknowledge Rose White, an auntie of mine, who, after 40 years and 328 days, has finally hung up her apron and knives after working for Silver Fern Farms in Whakat\u016B. I want to acknowledge my auntie and wish her all the very best in her retirement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EAs a product of our being freezing workers, my auntie often told me that freezing workers were the backbone of our economy, and I will work with anybody in this Chamber in fit for purpose primary policies that enable opportunities for all New Zealanders. I am happy to be a member of the very hard-working Primary Production Committee, and I want to acknowledge both our chair and the Minister for Primary Industries for coming to the select committee when we examined his vote\u2014and it was a very big vote that we had to examine. But my contribution tonight is going to be on the Primary Growth Partnership and there have been a lot of speakers speaking about that tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EFor the benefit of those who may not have been there, I will just quickly remind members that the Primary Growth Partnership was established in 2009. Its purpose is to increase investment and innovation, and to achieve economic growth and sustainability for multiple industries in the primary sector. It is responsibly administered by the Ministry for Primary Industries. The partnership meets equally or exceeds the investment made by the Crown with private investors, and it has an investment advisory panel that assesses all the proposals and business plans before it makes a recommendation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIn the last Parliament the Primary Production Committee requested that the Office of the Auditor-General examine the Primary Growth Partnership. The committee was specifically interested in the transparency and management of the programme\u2014hence my reason for making this contribution. On 30 November 2014 the Crown committed $322 million to 18 programmes, of which just under $120 million has been spent. The Auditor-General\u2019s office undertook a performance audit of the Primary Growth Partnership and it reviewed six programmes with a combined investment of $491.3 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ESo what were the findings of the office? Basically, the Auditor-General said that the Primary Growth Partnership was set up too quickly. It encountered some challenges in its early stages\u2014for example, the definition of funding, conditions, and criteria in the early funding rounds appeared to be \u201Cloose\u201D. The office expressed concern about the concept of additionality\u2014which my colleague Damien O\u2019Connor talked about\u2014to ensure that the Crown was not just paying for something that should have been just part of the normal process of some of these larger industries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThe Auditor-General\u2019s report also identified that given that the size of our country of New Zealand is quite small, there were going to be times that you could have conflict in terms of having limited core expertise in the primary sector. The Auditor-General noted, however, that the limited scope of the audit did not determine whether the investment advisory panel or the programme steering groups had a potential conflict of interest that should have been declared. That is not saying that a conflict of interest was not there; it was just not part of the scope of the investigation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EWhat were the overall findings in relation to the Primary Growth Partnership according to the Auditor-General? Clearly, transparency and accountability issues were identified, and that was something that the select committee took on board and we are undertaking to investigate it again in about 6 months\u2019 time. I want to just make sure, for my colleagues on the committee, that we uphold the findings of the Auditor-General, ensuring that all Crown money is going to what is intended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI know that this is rushed because we have got only a few minutes, but I want to turn your attention now to Crown Irrigation Investments. I want to acknowledge the Minister again for coming to the select committee and for his commitment that we will not be investing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022 data-id=\u002274a9bddcf376494b8ad531e153595b5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274a9bddcf376494b8ad531e153595b5f\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party supports forestry, particularly permanent canopy, sustainable production. We need very good forestry, rather than\u2014as we are seeing\u2014conversions to unsustainable and intensive dairying. But forestry must be located without impact on the indigenous habitats and it must be done right, and, at the moment, in too many cases, it is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EWe are very concerned about the direction of the National Environmental Standard for Plantation Forestry, which the Ministry for Primary Industries has been driving. It will not protect our indigenous habitats, our streams, and erosion-prone land from the impacts of forestry, as we have been seeing lately. In my own area, the estuary was seen as the worst of 32 in the country. The Marlborough Sounds has just been shown to have had an area of habitat the size of Blenheim destroyed by either dredging or forestry sediments, and it was only a fraction of the Sounds that was measured. So we are worried about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI went to seven of the consultations, or hui, around the country about this. I am optimistic that the Ministry for Primary Industries will tweak the National Environmental Standard for Plantation Forestry a bit, but I am not confident that it will go far enough to protect our fisheries, fish nurseries, and habitats from more sediment, because this national environmental standard is for industry. Councils have been submitting\u2014submissions finished today\u2014because they realise that they cannot protect their local environments adequately under this national environmental standard. Once it is finalised and gazetted, it will replace councils\u2019 existing district and regional plan provisions for managing plantation forestry across New Zealand, unless the national environmental standard specifically says otherwise. When it is a permitted activity there is no chance for further public comment. People will not even be able to comment ahead of a forestry harvesting that will destroy and wreck their water supply for a period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThe Ministry for Primary Industries said: \u201CHey, you can use the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management, and you can get in the collaborative process and deal with things.\u201D, but even just 2 weeks ago, the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment was talking about that process and said that there are gaping holes. One of the biggest ones is that estuaries are not covered, and so our fisheries are still at risk. And that collaborative process is often not quite as effective, being dominated by industry all too often, with a result that is an increase in pollution rather than a decrease. So we need major changes to the National Environmental Standard for Plantation Forestry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI will go back to the issue I spoke of earlier around genetic engineering. This national environmental standard is being used not only as a Trojan Horse to take communities out of looking out for erosion and looking after their fisheries, their awa, and their kai moana\u2014it is a Trojan Horse to get GE trees in, because the Government lost its ability to do so through Resource Management Act reforms. The Environmental Protection Authority, which the Ministry for Primary Industries is saying should be the arbitrator, has consistently failed. It has a long history of failure and shortcomings in relation to genetic modification, and this Government carries on giving money to those fiddling with it. Crop and Food Research\u2019s brassicas were planted and illegally flowering even when the decision to allow the field trial was being appealed to the High Court. It was ultimately stopped and a foot-deep of soil was removed from across that site and deep-buried at Kate Valley because of potential contamination. Crown research institute AgResearch has GE animals\u2014it has breached its conditions. The Environmental Protection Authority can do nothing about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022d01243642bd84983ae425218baeb7618\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d01243642bd84983ae425218baeb7618\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E I would really like to start by refuting some of the comments made by one of the earlier speakers about getting in and managing all sorts of industries. I can say, as a former leader of the wine industry, which was one of the industries that he spoke about, that the last thing we would have wanted as an industry when I was in charge\u2014and I am sure it is the same today\u2014was to have the Government get in and try to run the industry. What industries want is a Government that runs efficient services, that minimises the tax burden as much as possible, and, most important, that runs a good framework and, particularly, takes care of trade by negotiating really good trade agreements and free-trade agreements. I am really delighted to be a part of a Government that is supporting the Trans-Pacific Partnership at the moment, which will be such a fantastic opportunity for this country. It was disappointing, I would have to say\u2014although perhaps not surprising\u2014to hear the uninformed comments coming from the other side of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI want to move on to talk about the drought in North Canterbury, which the Minister for Primary Industries alluded to. The drought is a really significant drought, particularly around the Cheviot-Hawarden area. It seems to be a horseshoe of land on the east coast of the South Island that is missing out on the rain that comes from the north, and missing out on the rain that comes from the south and the west. It is unfortunate; this drought has been biting really hard for quite some time. There are reports of about 100,000 breeding stock that have been shifted out of the area to go for grazing, some of which will not come back on to the farms to lamb because there simply will not be the feed there. Although it looks green to the uninitiated as you drive by, it is what is known as a \u201Cgreen drought\u201D. There is a green tinge with, really, no feed underneath it, and not many root reserves to really kick anything away. The soil moisture is so low at the moment that it will need significant rainfall to really turn that round.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI really want to acknowledge the $200,000 of additional funding that has gone to the rural support trusts. That will make a big difference. It is gratefully received by those people who are affected\u2014and also the $500,000 that was announced at the Fieldays by Minister Guy and Minister Coleman. That was a great initiative\u2014it really is. That is where Governments can get in and make a big difference with, actually, a relatively small amount of money, and I want to acknowledge that. I also want to acknowledge the team that is doing a great job in North Canterbury\u2014Winton Dalley in particular, the mayor of Hurunui, who is heading up the drought committee along with Doug Archbold, the rural support guy for that area, who is doing a fantastic job. Sometimes it is a pretty tough job to get out there and do that, and I want to acknowledge him tonight. I think that we should really all encourage those people and the job that they are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThese things will improve. It will rain again. All those things happen, and people will adapt their systems to deal with it as best they can. But that segues quite well into my next point, which is irrigation. I acknowledge the $25 million towards the Irrigation Acceleration Fund. There has been a lot of talk about funding from the Government and Vote Primary Industries and Food Safety towards irrigation and what that amounts to. But that money is to fund storage, and storage is about, actually, the community benefiting and the environmental benefits from irrigation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe \u014Cpuha scheme in South Canterbury is, I think, a wonderful example of how the whole community and the environment benefits from storage. At \u014Cpuha Dam the irrigators voluntarily reduced their take as the drought really started to bite hard in that area, to allow more water to flow and to keep the instream values up in the \u014Cpihi River, which flows out of the \u014Cpuha Dam. That enabled Fish and Game, which was a very vociferous opponent of the irrigation scheme, to capture the fish that were in the streams that were drying up and take them and put them into the \u014Cpihi, and then, when that finally got to the point where it was drying up, to take the fish and put them in the \u014Cpuha Dam.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo we have now, certainly, a group of people from Fish and Game in South Canterbury who were opponents of the scheme, but now very much fans of the scheme, because they can see the benefits to the environment from storage for irrigation. So I think the Irrigation Acceleration Fund is very important. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00222b1b6aede7b1489eb0f78cfb5610a5ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b1b6aede7b1489eb0f78cfb5610a5ac\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to be speaking in the Chamber and taking a call tonight. I am very proud of the primary industries, and the expectation for the year to June 2015 is that $35.2 billion would be brought in by primary industries. I know that at this point in time we are looking at a volatile situation in the dairy industry, and I just want to shout out to my fellow farmers tonight. The falling dairy prices have been a concern, but they are temporary. They will come through, and we do know that we are looking for a bright future in this industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI also want to mention, and my colleague here, Stuart Smith, talked about it, the funding that is going out to help farmers at this time\u2014the $500,000 that was actually delivered at Fieldays, which has been used to train more people. There are going to be another 100 people out there working with DairyNZ and working with Beef and Lamb and encouraging those farmers to come forward. Although the industry itself is very resilient, we just want to be quite careful about talking too much about individual farmers being resilient, because we want them to stand up and ask for help when they need it\u2014and they will. If they do that, if they work with their banks, they will be resilient and they will come through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EBut I want to also acknowledge that there is a whole lot more to the primary industries. We focus on dairy, and I am very proud of it, but over recent weeks I have had the opportunity to visit Zespri with the Primary Production Committee. You know, that is an industry that has come through some very tough times. It had the disease Psa unexpectedly come in with the gold kiwifruit variety that it had at the time. It put in a huge effort around getting people through, and now that is an industry that is really thriving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EWhat was impressive to me was when we talked to those horticulturalists about what they were growing in their kiwifruit, they were talking about the dry matter content, the sugar content\u2014everything, to those people, was important about the taste of that kiwifruit and the experience of that kiwifruit from the time it left the farm until it went to the pack-house. The people at the pack-house we visited were absolutely focused on keeping that quality all the way through to the market, so that they knew that the person who picked up that kiwifruit and had it at the end of the day on their plate was having a fantastic experience and will continue to buy the kiwifruit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI have also been to Tegel, which is a fast-growing chicken industry in Taranaki. What is really interesting for me, and I also note, is that in our estimates there is another $10 million going towards animal welfare. Often the chicken people get targeted when it comes to animal welfare. Well, actually, I can tell you that there are no meat chickens kept in cages. There are no hormones used. There are a whole lot of rumours out in our society about what goes on with chickens, and I can tell you that when I was in one of those newly developed sheds on that particular day, with 35,000 13-day-old chickens, it was 27 degrees Celsius inside that chicken shed, and it was actually 10 degrees outside. If I was a chicken I know where I would make the choice to go\u2014because it was very hard to go back out into the cold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge that if you come into Taranaki - King Country on the way from Taumarunui\u2014which is our esteemed select committee chair\u2019s electorate\u2014across in Te K\u016Biti, just after you leave Taumarunui, there is a wonderful little alpaca shop. We do not often think a lot about alpacas when we think about primary industries, but these people have very, very selective breeding. They have white ones, they have black ones, and they have brown ones, keeping them very pure. They are selling the products in their shops. The wool that actually comes off these alpacas is of a very, very high quality. So there it is a combination of the primary industries combining with the tourism industry and providing a product that people want to see. I can tell you that those alpacas are very, very cute. They do spit, but they are very, very cute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI am also very impressed with the extra $7.5 million over 2 years that is being put into developing key skills and systems. I was very pleased when the Minister for Primary Industries talked before about the Ministry for Primary Industries and the Ministry of Education working together. Prior to coming into Parliament, I was involved with a group called the Primary Industry Capability Alliance. As part of that group\u2014its role is to encourage new talent to come into our industries. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221d9529b3a1354e17b9ba85fb204a98be\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote Lands and Vote Primary Industries and Food Safety be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVotes agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f1fb5660af0485a8709231944e0b5f9\u0022\u003ESocial Development and Housing Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00220745ff99879c4e3c8eb876fc5c3597d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220745ff99879c4e3c8eb876fc5c3597d6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: We now come to the votes on the social development and the housing sector\u2014volume B.5, volume 10. The question is that Vote Building and Housing and Vote Social Development stand part of the schedules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc14efe757b945c596f439d6eaf55e10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc14efe757b945c596f439d6eaf55e10\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (Chairperson of the Social Services Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I rise as the chair of the Social Services Committee to take the first call on this estimates debate. The Social Services Committee recommends the appropriations for the year ending 30 June 2016 for Vote Social Development be accepted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EIt is an honour to be able to speak tonight on this. The Budget for 2015 delivers a $790 million package to help children living in some of New Zealand\u2019s poorest families. It is a commitment that was made by the Prime Minister, and he clearly made it in his state of the nation speech, that we are firmly focused on helping those children who, through no fault of their own, have been caught in a cycle of hardship. As the Prime Minister has set that vision, I also want to acknowledge that the Minister the Hon Anne Tolley has taken on that role to ensure that we deliver that package and that vision as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EOne of the things that we often think is the key area of concern, and this is also the judgment from those in the sector who provide the service\u2014and I know that my colleague Mr Matt Doocey will be reading from the state of the nation booklet called A Mountain All Can Climb, but before he does that I too want to sort of comment on that. In February of this year this was a report that actually talked about it, and often it is a state of the nation report that judges the performance of the Government in regards to the social sector. They have 22 indicators by which they judge the Government on its performance. I am happy to say that 14 out of the 22 had the thumbs up out of those social indicators of change during 2014, which gives us the lead that it is a good foundation for us to build on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EJust a couple of those to mention\u2014child poverty, for instance. The percentage of children living in benefit-dependent households has reduced by 2 percent to 17 percent. We know it is a small change, but it is a significant change. It is moving in the right direction. We talk about children at risk, and it is a reduction of 15 percent down to 19,623. So, again, it is a small change, but the number of substantiated cases of child abuse and neglect has also reduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b8e4228ef14455eaccf37882f3b46c8\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: How many reported? Don\u2019t answer that one!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d4146d8136b48aaadd7113f960c30c9\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: Educational achievement has increased by 0.2 percent. These are key indicators, social indicators, that are making a change. If Mr Darroch Ball was there, he might have read this. He might have seen that 14 out of the 22 indicators have shown that this Government is heading in the right direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ELet us, then, look at the Budget of 2015 and what it is delivering for us and for New Zealand as well. We know that Budget 2015 delivers a $790 million package to help children living in some of New Zealand\u2019s poorest families. We know employment is the best way to lift families out of difficulty and hardship, and the incentive to work will ensure their children who are living in poverty are supported. This is focused on helping 60,000 to 100,000 children who through no fault of their own experience material hardship. There has been widespread reform throughout the welfare system over recent years aimed at increasing independence where possible. This is working well, with 42,000 fewer children living in welfare-dependent homes since this time 3 years ago. I think that is a significant number\u201442,000 children in 3 years are now actually in situations where they can thrive and their outcomes can be improved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThis Budget\u2019s announcements continue National\u2019s plan to deliver better services to vulnerable children and New Zealanders who rely on them, and to deliver better value for money for taxpayers. Inside of that package, I want to talk about a couple of things that I think are quite important. One of the ones that was significant in 2015, which I know was celebrated even on the other side\u2014I know there was acknowledgment\u2014was the fact that under this Government, a National Government, the benefit rates for families with children will rise by $25 a week after tax. It is the first increase, other than inflation adjustments, for 43 years\u201443 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b54620fcb344c8dba24f8bc6305e30f\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: What did you do in 1991, Alfred? What did National do in 1991 to benefits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3959d831e2145279dbf4082b9769810\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think you were even alive in 1991, Mr Darroch Ball. It is the first increase, other than inflation adjustments, for 43 years, and there will be extra support for low-income working families, despite Labour voting against both these measures. That is significant because even when there was a time of surplus under the previous Labour Government there was no increase, but under this Government there is an increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESome speculators on the other side said: \u201CWhat will $25 do?\u201D. Q\u002BA went up to the far north to some of the most deprived communities up there\u2014M\u0101ori communities up there\u2014and the question that was asked to Dr Lance O\u2019Sullivan was this: \u201CWill this budget of $25 extra per family that is eligible make a difference?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002233f1a4153b714db4866ac64164967ad5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233f1a4153b714db4866ac64164967ad5\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour\u2014Kelston):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for giving me an opportunity to speak to this. I sat through what was actually a really painful estimates hearing in the Social Services Committee with the Minister for Social Development present. I want to talk to a little bit of what was discussed in that meeting and challenge a little bit of what the former speaker, Alfred Ngaro, spoke about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere are three issues that came up in the estimates hearing that I really want to discuss today. First was that child hardship package, so let us talk a little bit about that today. Second was from benefit to employment\u2014is that really happening? Does the Government have an emphasis on that or not? Third are the Ministry of Social Development dealings with Relationships Aotearoa\u2014it fronted at that hearing, so I will speak to that as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EFirstly, the member Alfred Ngaro touched on this, the Government\u2019s child hardship package. It made this announcement that an additional $25 will be going into the pockets of families who are on benefits. What it did not give when it made that announcement was the detail. So let us look at this Support for Children in Hardship Bill, what that entails, and what it really will mean for families. The Government said $25 per family\u2014not per child; per family. But, actually, there are going to be a lot of families who do not get that entire $25 because they are getting access to a disability allowance, temporary additional support, and a whole lot of other things. So they may not get the $25. They may not get anything. They may get $12.50.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe Government is looking to extend the work obligations alongside this additional $25 a week, expecting parents or sole parents to go back to work when their youngest turns 3 rather than 5. We asked the ministry for documentation or evidence to support why it might make that call. All of the reports that we got back did not support that move at all. In fact, there was no New Zealand evidence to support what it was doing. All of the evidence was overseas evidence, and the overseas evidence said that when you impose these types of work obligations on sole parents, then you are likely to have the adverse effect where you drive them further into poverty. Was any of that advice or research taken on board? The Minister and the ministry chose to ignore that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe have seen recently that there are real issues in New Zealand with early childhood education in terms of access to quality early childhood education, yet with the extension of these work obligations, these\u2014primarily\u2014women are going to be expected to go back into part-time work and put their children into early childhood education. The standard of early childhood education available has been questioned recently by experts, by New Zealanders, and by the general public. It is something that the National Government still refuses to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want to bring up the fact that we have been told that with the legislation the Government is introducing there will be an extension of childcare subsidies. Well, there is a problem there too because where is there a serious overspend every year? It is in the accessing of childcare subsidies. So the Government is saying that it is going to extend it. The Government is saying that it is pushing people into work and that it is providing more opportunities in terms of childcare subsidies. Well, then, why are there 1,800 fewer people in the most recent year compared with the last who are accessing childcare subsidies? Why has the number of people accessing childcare subsidies over the last 5 years dropped by 2,500 people? They are not accessing it, because the Government is making it difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis Government is not aspirational for people, and I want to make that point. It is pushing primarily women, these women, out into jobs that are any job. I just talked to a woman yesterday who has taught for the last 13 years in Samoa and has come back. She is a qualified teacher. She did her training here. She thought: \u201COK. Yes, I will do this Ministry of Social Development course.\u201D Sixteen weeks she has to do this course for. She goes along. She is a qualified teacher. She is sitting next to a woman who ran an airfield, for goodness sake, and the person taking the course that they have to attend for 16 weeks is saying: \u201CAnd at the end of this you might get a job at McDonald\u2019s.\u201D How aspirational is that for these women?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want to move from that over to whether or not people are going from benefits into jobs. When asked in the select committee whether or not it was a primary concern that people were coming off benefits and going into jobs, the Minister said: \u201CIt is not necessarily about employment; it is about independence.\u201D How independent can you be if not only are you not getting an income from work but you are not getting any support from the State? When we continued down that line of questioning, her Ministry of Social Development chief executive said \u201CWell, those people who are not in work and are not getting a benefit have other means.\u201D, and the Minister sat there nodding her head.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00228a0153a1388e428e89d47c5c738f54aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a0153a1388e428e89d47c5c738f54aa\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure to take a call tonight to talk about Budget 2015 because, as we heard from the chair of the Social Services Committee, my colleague Alfred Ngaro, of course this is a huge year for those who are the less well-off in our communities. In Budget 2015 a $790 million package was announced by this Government, focused on reducing hardship for children in some of our poorest families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EIt was a 43-year watershed when this Government announced a $25 a week increase in the benefits. No other Government in 43 years has actually focused on those receiving a benefit, and lifted that benefit. This Government did it. They hate it, on the Opposition, because in the very best of economic times that Labour Government did not lift the benefit. It ignored the people who are on a benefit. This Government has announced that, as from 1 April next year, people will get a $25 increase in the benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232e9fb8aec9b43cca58b6e5d2626bb19\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: The first increase in real benefits in 43 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296f9ec6a80424a739932c72d5a230062\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, 43 years. Not only that, we also looked at those who are working hard. We know there are many families in New Zealand that are working hard but are still on very low incomes, and their children are still experiencing hardship. We have lifted the minimum family tax credit and the in-work tax credit, so that the families that are eligible for those also receive an increase of anything between $12 extra a week and $25 extra a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EAnd we have increased the subsidy for childcare. We have done that because, contrary to the previous speaker, we know from experience what is working well, particularly for parents reliant on the sole-parent benefit. We know what support is needed to help those people out into work and independence. Independence of the State is extremely important. We know, from experience, what is working, what support is working, and we know the determination of many of those people to be independent. From 1 April next year it is interesting that a sole parent now working 20 hours a week, on the minimum wage and receiving the minimum family tax credit and the in-work tax credit, could be $190 a week better off. That is the difference that it makes\u2014helping people and supporting them into work and supporting their families. They could be $190 a week better off and independent of the State. That is the ambition that this National Party has for those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EWe know that the outlook for those children in families that are reliant on the State for a benefit is not great. Their lifetime expectations are not great. The statistics tell us that those children who are born into homes that are included in the main benefit within the first 2 weeks of their life, 48 percent of them will have a Department of Child, Youth and Family Services notification. Almost half of those kids will have a referral to the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services, and 48 percent of them will not attain NCEA level 2. We know that that is the minimum qualification that a young person needs to go on to get a good job, to go on to further tertiary education, or to go into an apprenticeship. Almost half of those kids\u2014we know that if nothing changes in their lives they will not have that, and then 45 percent of them will go on to receive a youth benefit. Again, the outlook for youngsters going on to a youth benefit is that they are most likely to still be on that youth benefit in 20 years\u2019 time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ESo the absolute imperative is to help people become independent of the State, able to stand on their own two feet, able to support themselves and their families, and therefore we have put into play these benefits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022c888e76fc0e04b1bb0d3e88e0f8ef856\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c888e76fc0e04b1bb0d3e88e0f8ef856\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I did have a whole speech written, but I do feel compelled to respond to some of the comments from the Minister, who talked about this being the first benefit raise in 43 years. She has conveniently ignored the fact that it would have required a 45 percent increase in benefits to be able to return them to the pre-1990 level, when the previous National Government slashed them, to the point where we now have the unemployment benefit being worth 24 percent of the average wage, where people are consciously being left in poverty. And for children to be in our hospitals and dying because of the policy of this Government\u2014we should be celebrating that in this Budget? Well, I am sorry, but I am not going to celebrate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe are being told by this Government that it knows what works. It is these sanctions, it is beating people over the head to be able to get them into work, because that is how you make it happen\u2014that is how you encourage independence! You cut people\u2019s incomes! That leads them to a life of independence! Well, why are more people being sanctioned now, in the last year, than were being sanctioned previously? If it was working, there would be fewer people being sanctioned. But it has been increased by 30 percent. More sole parents have been sanctioned in the last year. That is a sign of this policy failing, not succeeding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe know that when benefit levels were set at a higher rate, we had lower rates of unemployment. Poverty does not drive people into work\u2014it keeps them stuck in poverty. It puts them into fragile, precarious work that is actually not better for them or their family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI really think that this Government, with the Better Public Services targets that it has set\u2014of reducing benefit levels by 25 percent, and reducing the liability and the pressure on the Government\u2014really shows the lack of awareness in its thinking. That, to the Government, is what is most important for this country. It is not about the well-being of our society. It is not about getting people into work, into decent jobs. It is not about eliminating child poverty. It is not about ensuring that families where women and children leaving violent relationships are able to re-establish themselves with a minimum of trauma. It is not about people who are sick\u2014getting treatment for cancer or any other number of illnesses, or even donating organs\u2014to be properly supported and not forced into debt or made homeless; so that they are so stressed out and unable to get the medical attention that they need, because of the financial stress on them at the moment, which is what is happening now. People are being made homeless while suffering and getting treatment for cancer, because this system no longer provides a safety net.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe are being told in this House by this Government, in response to this Budget, that we should be celebrating the fact that there will be an average of maybe $20 a week to families, no matter how many children they have. This Government was told in the policy documents that that amount of money would make no difference to the child poverty levels in this country, and the Government presented this to the public of New Zealand as a child hardship measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand public cares about our children. We want our children to be well and healthy and able to thrive and live up to all of their potential. Instead of actually creating the environment to enable that for our children, this Government has presented a piece of window dressing that is leaving those children in hardship. It is refusing to address the core foundation of poverty in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022774a9e4632e847b9954dfcf98248ec2b\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: She can\u2019t even look up. She\u2019s just texting on her phone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267ad53d54a08457c8017cad5267790df\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: And the Minister is texting\u2014really engaging with the issue!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo the impact of these policy decisions is the increasing number of people being trapped in poverty. We are being told by the community organisations I am seeing around the country that they are dealing with a lot of people now who are not even wanting to go into Work and Income because they are finding the situation and the environment in those offices so traumatising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00221b0ba20851bf4e429e7b3384d405ee8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b0ba20851bf4e429e7b3384d405ee8b\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E I am going to talk about housing. The really intriguing thing about this Government\u2019s handling of the housing issue has been that, in the face of a crisis that has got worse and worse over the last few years, all we have seen from the Minister Nick Smith since he became the Minister for Building and Housing 2\u00BD years ago is a series of grudging half measures. The standard operating procedure for this Minister on housing has been denial, trivialisation, complacency, and refusal to acknowledge the extent of the problem until the focus groups showed that people are starting to get concerned. Then what do we see time after time after time? He tosses out some grudging half measure as a sop to public opinion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ELast week the Prime Minister made his most revealing comments yet on this issue, in an interview with Leighton Smith on Newstalk ZB, where the Prime Minister said that Aucklanders like their house prices going up because it makes them richer. This was very interesting and very significant. It was the most candid that the Prime Minister has been, and it explains why we have a non-housing Minister and a non-housing policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EHe is a Minister whose job is to look like he is doing something\u2014to provide political cover for a Government that has made such a cynical political calculation, a calculation that there are sufficient numbers of Aucklanders who own their homes and who will feel wealthier and happier because of rising paper wealth that they can never cash in unless they move out of the city, giving up their job and moving away from family. That does not happen. The Government knows that, but it is content to make that calculation\u2014that there are enough homeowners who feel that they are getting wealthier because of skyrocketing house prices. In doing so, it will throw under the bus the 50-plus percent of Aucklanders who do not own their own home\u2014who rent. It will condemn Generation Rent to a lifetime of renting\u2014the very tenants in their own land whom the Prime Minister talked about only a couple of years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ENick Smith talks a big game on supply\u2014the supply of houses. His diagnosis of the housing crisis in Auckland is simply that there are not enough houses. It is all about supply and nothing about demand. But he has singularly failed to deliver supply. In 2\u00BD years as the housing Minister, there is such a shortfall in houses that the Productivity Commission\u2014his policy touchstone on housing; the Government\u2019s pet thinktank\u2014predicts that at current rates that shortfall is going to go from 32,000 now to 60,000 houses in 2020. That is a failure by anyone\u2019s reckoning, from a Minister who made it his ambition to increase the supply of houses. It is getting worse by 5,000 every year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThat is why house prices in Auckland are skyrocketing and that is why the New Zealand Herald reported that they have been going up by $511 a day, on average, for the last year\u2014$511 a day. You can make more money under this National Government\u2019s policy by owning a house than by working. There is only one way to get rich under this Government, and that is by speculating in residential property. That is its policy. The National Party is the party of property speculators, foreign and domestic. That is whom it stands for, and the Prime Minister\u2019s comments revealed very clearly that the Government is selling out New Zealand, and selling out young Kiwi first-home buyers, because it does not care. It has made a cynical political calculation that it would rather count on the votes of Auckland homeowners who think that they are getting wealthier. It does not give a damn about the lost generation that will never ever have the Kiwi dream of affordable homeownership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe crowning glory of Nick Smith\u2019s tenure as housing Minister so far has been his Auckland Crown land fiasco\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ee988b2809541a892a1d685d00f58c5\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I thought it was him lying on the road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a0a7646c07a4664addffd19de930a1f\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It is hard, actually, to choose which one is the real fiasco. Documents released under the Official Information Act the other day revealed exactly what everybody knew. His Budget policy on developing vacant Crown land for Auckland housing was rushed. Treasury said that it was almost too late. It was past the deadline, and we know why\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2f738c280c54549bcec2ca699ace085\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2f738c280c54549bcec2ca699ace085\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on Vote Social Development. I would just like to concentrate on the Limited Service Volunteers programme and its\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207fc6cf5007f464f8283fadf97104753\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Great programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ce2dd5193b041388462269e82149d0b\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: Is it? Oh, why did you cut it, then? Why did you cut the funding, then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI would like to talk about the funding, or the lack of it and, actually, the reduced funding, for a couple of reasons. One is that youth is one of the most important age groups that we have in our country, but it is also one of the most underfunded and, actually, neglected by this Government. A second reason is that I was actually a platoon commander in the Limited Service Volunteers programme. I know the actual benefits and that it is a great course, the Limited Service Volunteers course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI would just like to start by quoting the previous Minister for Social Development, Paula Bennett, and her explanation before the Government actually bolstered up the numbers from around 800 to about 2,000 positions for trainees there. Paula Bennett said: \u201CIt\u2019s not always easy as a young person to know what direction you are taking. Self confidence is sometimes lacking and the courage to take risks and open yourself to new opportunities is sometimes missing. I have seen first hand the light that switches on for young people while on LSV. They gain confidence, they learn about themselves and what they are capable of. They come out with a plan. Sometimes it\u2019s not just an employment or study plan, but a life altering direction that they will take.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EActually, they have got some statistics and results here in this release, and it says that they have shown that of all those who have completed the course since 1993, 45 percent gained employment and a further 30 percent entered trade-related training within 3 months of the course finishing. But apparently if you fast-forward just a few years, the New Zealand Herald says that \u201CThe Government has quietly scaled back boot camps for young beneficiaries and Treasury has advised that they should be scrapped altogether because they are not effective.\u201D But not effective about what? And how is the Government measuring the success of the Limited Service Volunteers courses, and why should it be cutting the funding to the Limited Service Volunteers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EIn fact, a spokeswoman for the Minister for Social Development, Anne Tolley, said that the previous rise in funding was because of high youth unemployment during the financial crisis, which was around the 2010-11 year. Well, that is a load of rubbish, because if we actually look at the statistics, in the third quarter of 2010 there were 33,000 15 to 19-year-olds who were unemployed\u2014around 23.8 percent. If you fast-forward to 2015, when the Government wants to cut it from 2,000 to around about 800 trainees, there is exactly the same number of youth who are unemployed\u201433,000\u2014and it is around just over 21 percent. So there has been no change whatsoever in unemployment, but apparently in 2010 that was a cause to increase the numbers of Limited Service Volunteers and increase the funding, and in 2015 that was a cause to cut it. In fact, if you want to look at the age group from 20 to 24, which does include positions for Limited Service Volunteers, in 2010 there were just 26,000 and in 2015 there are 30,000. It has remained at 11.9 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ESo where is this Government getting its statistics from? It is making them up. What it wants to do is cut costs, and it wants to do it by any means necessary. It is an absolute cop-out. It is letting these kids from this successful programme\u2014the Limited Service Volunteers, which the New Zealand Defence Force is running\u2014go towards yet another youth benefit scheme. We have got a bill going through the House at the moment about extending the Youth Service. The Youth Service is actually fully focused on just one thing, and that is education and National Certificate of Educational Achievement level 2. So how can you compare that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224240d8a476c2494b933499df1722205f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014not me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227047634402c84cc593b275452c5e288a\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Chairman. How can members in this House and how can the Government compare that with the self-confidence, the courage, and the new opportunities that these trainees gain in the Limited Service Volunteers programme? They cannot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI would just like to finish with this. In the Treasury report, it says that \u201CThe package does not include funding to continue the Limited Services Volunteer programme. There is limited evidence of its effectiveness in achieving [its] outcomes.\u201D Well, in 2010 the Government had the evidence to increase it, and now it does not. What I would like to say is that I say, and everybody else who has been involved with the Limited Service Volunteers says, that you cannot measure the confidence, the courage, and the self-realisation that these individuals gain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022 data-id=\u0022db871605c22e43cfbb157c36e76ec559\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db871605c22e43cfbb157c36e76ec559\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E For a number of years the M\u0101ori Party has come into Government and decided to work with the National Government. It is something that we are willing to do, because, actually, it is easy to sit and throw stones, but we are actually more interested in providing an avenue for working collaboratively together. The increase, this year, of the benefit rates\u2014for 43 years, no matter who had been in Government, nothing had been done about it. Nothing had been done about it. So there has been an increase, but I agree that, actually, that increase is not going to eliminate poverty. That increase is relief for hardship. We must commit to having ongoing measures that will eliminate poverty, eradicate poverty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EThis year, in September, the Prime Minister will be attending the UN General Assembly for a sustainable goal agenda, where the No. 1 goal is eradicating poverty by our own country\u2019s measurement. There is a whole lot of debate about how we do measure poverty. Well, if we look at the one that the Government likes\u2014the severe hardship index\u2014by that measure, 100,000 children still live in poverty. That is 10 percent of our children. I want to say to the Committee tonight that it is within our grasp, right now, to do something about it, so that we can eliminate and eradicate poverty in this country. If we stall any further measures to do something, it will soon be outside our capability and our capacity as a country to do that and to realise the actual goal of eliminating poverty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EThe No. 6 goal on that agenda in September is to set a target to halve and eradicate poverty by our own measures. I want to call on our Prime Minister and our Government to sign up to that goal agenda, to continue to work together. I am willing to work together with the Ministerial Committee on Poverty to do just that: to find ways where we can take a purposefully targeted approach to eliminating and eradicating poverty in this country before it is outside our ability to do so. We can do it through a number of simple measures that do not actually cost a lot of money\u2014it is not about putting an extra $500 in everybody\u2019s hand and, therefore, making it impossible for us to do. But we can do some things, like indexing benefits to the median wage\u2014why have we never done that before? Because in a few years the small gain that we have been able to make will, again, be widened, we could index our benefit rates to the median wage so that they continue to keep pace and not widen the gap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EAnother thing that we can do is we can ensure that we extend the\u2014what is it called; it has gone out of my blinking head\u2014the paid parental leave. Extend that to the full 26 weeks; allow mothers to be with their babies in those formative first months so that they can give greater input into their lives and into growing and developing the brain, which needs to happen. One of the factors for poverty and keeping ourselves in the poverty cycle is actually poverty of the mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EThe other thing we can do is have security of tenancy. It does not cost much at all, but it guarantees people that they can live in a home for at least the life of their children in school, so that their children are not transient, so that they can stay in one place, and so that they can have a secure, warm, and safe home to come home to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EWe can do these things, and I call on the Ministers on the Ministerial Committee on Poverty to work with us, to work with me. I am willing to do that. That is why this party\u2014the M\u0101ori Party\u2014goes into a coalition agreement of confidence and supply with the National Government. It is so that we can make some changes and have some influence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister can commit to this in September. We can set targets for reducing poverty and eradicating it, and we can continue to build on the good work\u2014because it is good work, because nobody had done anything for 43 years. The Hon Dame Tariana Turia will tell you that nobody talked about poverty in this country until the M\u0101ori Party came in here. Why? Because we know poverty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75a81e6731c49ac8c282a7e09811ef7\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e22e2495584d4bf6a539a2bd2cd25ed8\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX\u003C/span\u003E: That is what she says, and I hold her to it, because it was in our relationship agreement, the very first one, in 2008. It was in the next one in 2011, and it was in the next one in 2013. Because of the Ministerial Committee on Poverty, we have seen benefits to our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00229cb26ad1b3bf4f9f8b289abe894bb8ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cb26ad1b3bf4f9f8b289abe894bb8ca\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for Building and Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I firstly want to acknowledge Marama Fox and the work that the M\u0101ori Party has done with this Government that has enabled us to deliver things like a $25 increase in benefit payments\u2014the first in more than 30 years. I want to acknowledge its work that has enabled us to provide for free doctors visits for those under the age of 13. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EAn area I want to particularly acknowledge the M\u0101ori Party on, in which we are also making progress, is improving the quality of housing. Let me talk about this area, because we have provided in this Government\u2019s term for the insulation of 290,000 homes through the Warm Up New Zealand: Healthy Homes initiative. We have also insulated 30,000 State houses, and we have also set down a programme, just announced with tenancy changes, for 180,000 other homes to be insulated. That is 500,000 homes\u20141.2 million people living in warmer, drier homes. I challenge the Labour members who are interjecting: how many did Labour do in its 9 years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209e8e01540544927947cbef794dcd22f\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Resign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275381ece8b644e07aa7724a73487360b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: We did 500,000\u2014Mr Cunliffe\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cadaf4543414a7dafa42869261042a9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. Order! The continual barraging across the Chamber is unacceptable. Tone it down. I actually want to hear what the Minister is saying, and I am sitting right beside him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f59dc00bb704a6bbad04947b8ae46e4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to compare the record: 500,000 homes are warmer and drier under our Government. Under the 9 years of Labour it insulated not 500,000 but 15,000, and Labour members have the gall to stand up in the Chamber and to pretend that they are the only ones who care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to talk about HomeStart, because this Government is providing the most generous support for first home owners in more than a generation. Some of the older grey hairs may remember the State Advances Corporation loans. They may remember the capitalising family benefit. What we are doing in this Budget is putting $430 million into helping young New Zealand families get over that hurdle and be able to buy their first home. There is only one problem that we have had in the last 3 months, and that has been dealing with the tsunami of applications of new first home owners, from Invercargill to Kait\u0101ia, who are picking up on that scheme and getting themselves into a home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to challenge Phil Twyford, because never have I faced such a duplicitous Opposition spokesperson who is all over the paddock. He challenges us to put loan-to-value ratios in place, and when they are put in place, he opposes them. He is a spokesperson who when interest rates go up complains and says it is bad, and when interest rates go down complains and says that it is bad. When I first became Minister for Housing he demanded that I not interfere in the Auckland Council. He organised for my hoarding to be put up all over Auckland, and then he has got the gall to say: \u201COh, but the Minister\u2019s not doing enough in Auckland.\u201D Well, let me give the numbers. Every year that I have been Minister, since 2013, the number of new houses being built in Auckland has grown by 20 percent. There has never been a period, in the last 3 years or in any time in Auckland\u2019s history, when there has been as fast a pick up in the rate of house building. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut here is the really embarrassing bit: never have I seen a spokesperson tear up the heritage of a party that I thought stood for inclusion, as he did with his cynical attack on those with Chinese-sounding names. You only need to see the reaction of spokespeople in the Labour Party, who now cringe every time Phil Twyford gets to his feet, because, in one of the most clumsy manoeuvres we have seen in this Chamber this year, Phil Twyford has burnt up 50 years of hard work where people thought the Labour Party stood for racial equality and stood for inclusion. Now we know that the Labour Party is out to cynically target one ethnic group with this housing challenge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00220fcf357f52ac43dbaec01d91de23e5c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fcf357f52ac43dbaec01d91de23e5c3\u0022\u003EPOTO WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E That last speech was from a Minister, Nick Smith, the Minister for Building and Housing, who has done such a poor job at housing that they had to put three people in his place. That is appalling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003ELet us start with the Housing New Zealand rebuild in Christchurch, shall we? The new builds\u2014700 new homes in Christchurch. When is the deadline? The deadline for that is December 2015. How many of the 700 houses have been built?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5600c33c6bc4593a2cec7b734e96754\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2b56d4b40984eabbf1842637d8bc1e0\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ff66f3f23324910b8f4a06244756390\u0022\u003EPOTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: It certainly ain\u2019t 700; I can tell you that. We are closer to 300. The last time I got the answers to our written questions we were at something like 296. Now, how many does that mean need to be built by the end of the year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ede1d57fbce49f48963e63d87fe7b1a\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: 402.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022722698db00324247ad44dae252c583f7\u0022\u003EPOTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. How is that going to be done? I will tell you how it is going to be done, Minister. How it is going to be done is that we will have a deadline that National puts in place, which was going to be December 2015 and now it is going to be March 2016. So at the estimates discussion we hear: \u201CNo, it\u2019s not December 2015.\u201D, even though over the last 2 years the ministry has been saying that yes, it will get these houses built because the people in Christchurch desperately need them. What did we hear at the estimates discussion? March 2016, at the earliest. Do you think that is good enough? I do not think it is good enough, and I have been talking about this for a long time. I knew that that was ambitious at the beginning and I was right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EOh, boy, it makes me wild to know that this Government does not care about the people in Christchurch and their housing concerns. Let us talk about the housing accord in Christchurch, shall we? Let us talk about the case of the disappearing $52 million. There has been $22 million spent on the housing accord for affordable housing in Christchurch, and what has happened to the other $52 million? Well, I will tell you what has happened to it. It has gone to Auckland. It has gone to Auckland to deal with the Auckland housing crisis. How do you think people in Christchurch feel about that, Minister? They do not feel very good about that. On top of that, let me quote from one of the city councillors, Glenn Livingstone. What did Glenn Livingstone say? He is the chairman of the council\u2019s housing task force and he said this was the first he had heard that the money was to go to Auckland. So this Government could not even front up to the council in Christchurch and tell the council that it was taking $52 million out of the housing accord to send to Auckland. It could not front up to it. The council got that information from this news report. How is that for relationship building with the Christchurch City Council\u2014that the council had to find out from a news report that that $52 million was going to Auckland? I think that is pretty appalling. How did we find out about that money? Did the Government front up and say: \u201CHey, we think Christchurch is actually doing OK. We\u2019re going to send some money north.\u201D? No, it did not. This cynical Government left it to a backbencher to find the information in the Treasury dump of documents. That is what it did. Did you get up here in the Chamber, Mr Smith, and say to the people of Christchurch: \u201CYou are doing so well in your housing issues. We\u2019re going to send this $52 million up north.\u201D? No, you did not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003ELet us see what reaction we had in Christchurch to that, shall we, from the Salvation Army? \u201CFrom a Salvation Army Christchurch perspective, it\u2019s very alarming. There is still a major need and major issue [with affordable housing]. The impact that will have on all agencies is significant.\u201D And let us see what the City Mission has said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00229a1d23ebffed4687ba1213be3dfb78e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a1d23ebffed4687ba1213be3dfb78e9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. The time has come for me to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill without amendment, and progress on the Appropriation (2015/16 Estimates) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 9.56 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811d3d7418d322142a887de5811f1716b8d000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c324451d56844f4db2549d43986775e7\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 11 AUGUST 2015\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002274e993d99a764be9814909f7335ef4fd\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 12 August 2015)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226c0928c07cd547b9b211264c4ca97b47\u0022\u003EHineuru Claims Settlement Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ea44d91cd9044795b49cfaa944e1d2d7\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c48405510e284415b0f3dd17fa74416d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c48405510e284415b0f3dd17fa74416d\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Hineuru Claims Settlement Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee to consider the bill. Earlier in the year I had the pleasure of welcoming many of the community of Hineuru to Parliament to sign their deed of settlement, and I am really pleased to welcome back to the House a number of them this morning as we put legislation into the House that covers their settlement agreement\u2014reached, if I may say so, through determination, pragmatism, and willingness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI want to say something about the history of Hineuru\u2019s interactions with the Crown. In the mid-19th century the t\u012Bpuna of Hineuru lived and cultivated land in the mountainous inland region between Hawke\u2019s Bay and Taup\u014D Moana. They had few interactions with the Crown until 1866. In that year Crown forces attacked a group of M\u0101ori who were camped at \u014Cmarunui near Napier after the expiry of an unreasonable ultimatum calling on the group to surrender. On the same day Crown forces also intercepted, surrounded, and then subsequently attacked another group, led by the Hineuru rangatira Te Rangi H\u012Broa further north near P\u0113tane. Crown forces killed Te Rangi H\u012Broa and other Hineuru people during their attacks and then pursued Hineuru and other M\u0101ori into the rohe of Hineuru and plundered their k\u0101inga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBy the end of 1866 Hineuru had abandoned nearly all of their k\u0101inga and cultivations due to conflict with the Crown. Thirty-four individuals from the iwi were among 86 prisoners captured by the Crown. The Crown transported most of the prisoners to the Chatham Islands and detained them without trial in harsh conditions for almost 2 years. In 1868 the prisoners escaped and became embroiled in a war with the Crown. During this war Crown forces summarily executed a number of prisoners captured at Ng\u0101tapa in January 1869. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EIn 1867 the Crown proclaimed a large confiscation district in Hawke\u2019s Bay that included many of the lands of Hineuru. In 1870 the Crown concluded an agreement to retain some of the confiscated land in the core of the Hineuru rohe and return the remainder to individual M\u0101ori. This arrangement excluded a number of Hineuru from the titles for the Tarawera and the Tataraakina blocks and reduced the Hineuru interests in the Tarawera block to that of a minority. After years of protest, in 1924 the Crown promoted legislation that allowed the Native Land Court to award land in Tarawera and Tataraakina to Hineuru individuals who were descended from those excluded from the 1870 titles. Then in 1952 the Crown promoted further legislation that overturned the titles that were awarded in the 1920s. For Hineuru, these changes resulted in decades of tenurial uncertainty, significant financial burdens, and social dislocation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EFortunately, the northern part of the Hineuru rohe was not included in the confiscation. However, after 1877 the Crown and private purchasers acquired large areas of Hineuru land, and so today, as we have so often heard in this House in debates on Treaty legislation, Hineuru are virtually landless. In the late 19th century, Hineuru re-established a community at Te H\u0101roto, where their marae and wharenui, Rongopai, stand today. However, in the 20th century Hineuru faced economic insecurity, which was accompanied by widespread poverty, poor housing, disease, and the subsequent migration of many Hineuru from their traditional rohe. It goes without saying, as I always have to say, that it is not possible to compensate Hineuru fully for the loss and prejudice they have suffered as a result of the Crown\u2019s acts and omissions. It really is a testament to their generosity that in agreeing to this settlement Hineuru have forgone full compensation so as to contribute to New Zealand\u2019s development. As the history suggests, their journey to settlement stretches back many decades indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAlthough I acknowledge those members of Hineuru here at Parliament today, I also need to mention those who are no longer with us. This includes the tribunal claimants who carried the claims of their t\u012Bpuna but who were unable to see their efforts and their aspirations recognised in legislation. Hineuru settlement negotiations began in October 2009 when the Crown recognised the mandate of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru Iwi Inc. to negotiate the settlement of all their historical Treaty claims. Settlement negotiations began in 2010, and I asked our former parliamentary colleague Paul Swain to be the Crown negotiator. I acknowledge Mr Swain and the tremendous work that he has done. I regret that certain people in this House have been attacking Treaty negotiators in a very personal way in the last few days, because they do an excellent job, and Paul Swain is one of my closest confidants in this area. On behalf of him I reject everything that has been said about Treaty negotiators, and I notice that no apology has yet been forthcoming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe Hineuru negotiators then provided me with a set of pou representing Hineuru\u2019s settlement aspirations. These included the restoration and protection of Hineuru\u2019s cultural heritage and their health and well-being; the recognition of Hineuru\u2019s mana and the restoration of their relationships with neighbouring iwi, a very, very important consideration for the iwi; the reassertion of Hineuru presence throughout the rohe; the ability to rebuild an economic base for the iwi; and the revitalisation of Hineuru\u2019s role as kaitiaki of the environment and its resources. These pou have guided Hineuru through their negotiations and have ensured they have obtained a settlement package that achieve these goals, resulting in a stronger and more prosperous future for the iwi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EIn August 2012 I signed a letter of agreement, and on 2 October 2012 I signed an agreement in principle. Intensive negotiations followed. These are not superficial negotiations, as one member of this House seems to think. The Crown and Ng\u0101ti Hineuru Iwi Inc. initiated the deed of settlement in July 2014, and then, as I said earlier, we were very lucky to have Hineuru present in the precinct a couple of months ago when the deed of settlement was signed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe redress package recorded in the deed, which will be given effect to by this legislation, includes an agreed historical account, Crown acknowledgments of its breaches of the Treaty and its principles, and a Crown apology to Hineuru. These are not negotiated in 5 minutes; they are complex and carefully crafted documents that deal with important matters of history\u2014I say that for the benefit of some members of this House. Then we have financial and commercial redress, including a quantum of $25 million. Then, thirdly, we have cultural redress, including the vesting of six significant sites, overlay classifications, statutory acknowledgments, deeds of recognition, and place name changes, all of which require careful, thorough negotiation, as Mr Swain would tell us. I am confident that this package fulfils the objectives of the pou presented to me by negotiators in 2010 and provides Hineuru with a strong vehicle for the development of their people in the future. I understand the trustees have already begun their strategic planning and have already made important decisions concerning the future of their iwi. I commend the trustees for their leadership and I acknowledge their decision to purchase both blocks of Woodstock Station at settlement date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe journey of this fine iwi now moves into the final stages as we look to implement the settlement legislation in the next couple of months. I say to the trustees of the post-settlement governance entity and to this House that this bill should proceed to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee without delay. As we know, that committee does a great job in processing these bills and getting them back to the House as quickly as possible. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00229fd2f185a093486da67824c5b82e51d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fd2f185a093486da67824c5b82e51d9\u0022\u003EPEENI HENARE (Labour\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100, t\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. \u201CT\u012Bhei uriuri, tihei nakonako, whakatau h\u0101, whakatau ko te rangi i runga nei. Whakatau h\u0101, whakatau ko te papa i raro nei. Whakatau h\u0101, whakatau ki matuku mai i Rarotonga. Ko ia i rukuhia manawa pou roto, ko ia i rukuhia manawa o pou waho kia whakatina te more i Hawaiki, e pup\u016B ana, e wawau ana kia t\u0101rewa t\u016B ki te rangi, eke, eke panuku, eke Tangaroa, hui e, taiki e!\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI te t\u012Bmatanga ko Te Kupu, ko Te Kupu, ko Te Atua, ko Te Atua an\u014D taua Kupu! An\u0101, kor\u014Dria ki t\u014Dna ingoa tapu i tau mai t\u014Dna ringa manaaki, t\u014Dna ringa atawhai ki runga i a koutou kua tat\u016B mai nei i raro i te tuanui \u014D t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare. I mauria mai e koutou i te kaupapa whakahirahira o ng\u0101 m\u0101tua t\u016Bpuna, koia n\u0101 te take ka kor\u014Dria, ka wehi tonu t\u0113nei ki t\u014D t\u0101tou Kaihanga, kia tiaki tonu e ia ng\u0101 manako, ng\u0101 wawata \u014D koutou o Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, otir\u0101, m\u014D ng\u0101 mokopuna o ng\u0101 uri whakatipu, kor\u014Dria ki t\u014Dna ingoa tapu! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EN\u0101, ko ng\u0101 maharatanga ki ng\u0101 tini aitu\u0101, i whakawaha mai te Minita i \u0113tahi \u014D koutou, otir\u0101, r\u0101tou kua ngaro atu ki tua o te \u0101rai, r\u0101tou i kawe ai i t\u0113nei kaupapa, r\u0101tou i kawe ai i te mamae m\u014D te roanga o te w\u0101, mai i te t\u016Bkinotanga o te K\u0101wanatanga i a koutou, otir\u0101, i a t\u0101ua Te M\u0101ori, tae noa mai ki t\u0113nei w\u0101. Ka tangi tonu te ng\u0101kau m\u014D r\u0101tou kua ngaro atu ki Te P\u014D. Haere mai, haere! Ka t\u0101piri atu ko ng\u0101 aitu\u0101 maha kei runga i a t\u0101tou e hui tahi nei i raro i te tuanui o t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare. Kotahi tonu te k\u014Drero: \u201CTe r\u0101ngai maomao ka taka ki tua o Nukutaurua, e kore e hoki mai \u0101 muri.\u201D K\u0101ti te w\u0101hanga ki te hunga mate! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKia whakahokia mai ng\u0101 r\u0101rangi k\u014Drero ki a t\u0101tou. Ko t\u0101ku i t\u0113nei w\u0101 e tautoko ana i te k\u014Drero o te Minita m\u014D t\u0113nei take, m\u014D te pire e tat\u016Bnga i ng\u0101 ker\u0113me, i ng\u0101 take e p\u0101 ana ki te Tiriti o W\u0101itangi, ar\u0101, ki a Ng\u0101ti Hineuru i tau mai i te r\u0101 nei. Ka tautoko i ng\u0101 mihi ki ng\u0101 \u0101piha, ng\u0101 \u0101piha n\u0101 r\u0101tou w\u0113nei k\u014Drero me te kiko o t\u0113nei pire i whakaritea, ka tae mai ki roto i t\u0113nei Whare m\u014D te p\u0101nuitanga tuatahi o te pire, n\u014D reira, e mihi atu ana ki te Minita me \u014Dna \u0101piha katoa. Ka tautoko t\u0113nei i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero ka tukuna atu t\u0113nei pire ki Te R\u014Dp\u016B Whiriwhiri i ng\u0101 Take M\u0101ori o Te Whare nei, ka tukuna atu ki roto i ng\u0101 ringaringa o te heamana ka noho mai ki t\u0113r\u0101 taha o te Whare me ng\u0101 mema kei runga i taua r\u014Dp\u016B hei whiriwhiri i ng\u0101 take, hei whiriwhiri i te pire kei mua i te aroaro i t\u0113nei w\u0101, t\u0113nei ka mihi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKa tautoko ahau i ng\u0101 mihi ki te ng\u0101kaunui, ki te manawa ora, ki te manawanui o Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, mai i te takahanga o t\u0113nei kaupapa i ng\u0101 tau 1990, i tat\u016B ai w\u0101 r\u0101tou ker\u0113me me ng\u0101 take e p\u0101 ana ki Te Tiriti o Waitangi ki Te Taraipiunara o Waitangi. Kia m\u014Dhio mai te Whare e te M\u0101ngai, \u0101 te Oketopa e t\u016B mai nei, ka wh\u0101 tekau tau Te Taraipiunara o Waitangi. N\u014D reira, ka whakaaro ake ki te nui o ng\u0101 mahi i oti i a r\u0101tou, n\u0101, e p\u0101 ana ki ng\u0101 iwi puta noa, n\u0101, me Ng\u0101ti Hineuru i tae mai i te r\u0101 nei, t\u0113nei ka mihi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKa whakaaro ake ahau ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero h\u012Btori me ng\u0101 k\u014Drero whakapapa i k\u014Drero mai, i waha mai e te Minita ki mua i te aroaro o te Whare i te r\u0101 nei. N\u0101, ka k\u014Drero mai te Minita m\u014D te pakanga nui ki runga o \u014Cmarunui ki roto i ng\u0101 tau tini kua pahure ake nei. Kia m\u014Dhio mai te Whare, e te M\u0101ngai, kia m\u014Dhio mai koe, \u0101 te Oketopa \u0101 te tau e t\u016B mai nei, ka 150 tau ka mahara t\u0101tau ki taua pakanga te pakanga i \u014Cmarunui. I taua pakanga r\u0101, ka k\u014Drero mai te Minita m\u014D \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 uri o Ng\u0101ti Hineuru me iwi k\u0113 i whakaherea i roto i ng\u0101 whare herehere ki runga o Wharekauri. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI taua t\u0101ima, ka whakaaro ake ahau m\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 t\u0101ima. Ka whakaaro ake ahau t\u0101 te mea, i taua t\u0101ima, i runga o Te Motu o Wharekauri t\u0113tahi tupuna rongonui ki roto i Te Ao M\u0101ori, k\u0101ti, ko Te Kooti t\u0113r\u0101! Ka whakaaro ake ahau ki w\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero a Te Koot\u012B. Hei t\u0101na: \u201CKa whakaorangia e ahau te toenga o te tangata i hanga e t\u014Dku ringa i te t\u012Bmatanga, \u0101ke, \u0101ke! Ka pei ahau i te hunga kino! Ka whakahau ahau i ng\u0101 rohe o R\u0113neti.\u201D Ko te ngako o taua k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki te ao i kitea nei e Te Kooti i a ia e mauherehere ana ki runga o Wharekauri. N\u0101, ka whakaaro ake ki \u014Dna whanaunga, ki a ng\u0101i t\u0101ua te M\u0101ori, i t\u016Bkinohia ai e te K\u0101wanatanga ki roto i ng\u0101 tau i k\u014Drero nei te Minita i n\u0101ianei tata ake nei. N\u014D reira, ka mihi atu ahau ki a r\u0101tou n\u0101na i peia mai i \u014D r\u0101tou t\u016Brangawaewae tae noa atu ki ng\u0101 k\u0101inga e m\u014Dhio nei t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei w\u0101, ar\u0101, ko Te H\u0101roto, ar\u0101 ko Tar\u0101wera, ko ng\u0101 awa rangatira ka tohua nei, ka k\u014Drero nei, ki roto i te pire, t\u0113nei ka mihi, t\u0113nei ka tangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, k\u0101ti, ka huri i te titiro iaianei n\u0101 ki te roanga ake o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kei roto i t\u0113nei pire. He nui ng\u0101 k\u014Drero! He nui ng\u0101 k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki ng\u0101 mamaetanga i p\u0101 ki runga i a Ng\u0101ti Hineuru i roto i ng\u0101 tau. N\u0101, ka tukuna atu t\u0113tahi k\u014Dnae p\u016Btea ki a Ng\u0101ti Hineuru kia whakatinana ai r\u0101tou i \u014D r\u0101tou moemoe\u0101, i \u014D r\u0101tou wawata ki roto i ng\u0101 tau kei mua i a t\u0101tau. N\u0101, ko \u0113tahi atu w\u0101hanga kei roto i te pire, ka whakahokia atu w\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 w\u0101hi k\u0101inga o Ng\u0101ti Hineuru ki a r\u0101tou. N\u0101, ko t\u0113tahi atu w\u0101hanga kei roto i te pire, ka \u0101hei a Ng\u0101ti Hineuru ki roto i ng\u0101 komiti me ng\u0101 poari whakahaere o \u014D r\u0101tou rawa. \u0100, ko t\u0113tahi an\u0101 ko Te Awa o Te Rangitaiki, \u0101, ko t\u0113tahi atu ko Te Awa o Te M\u014Dhaka. Kua kite t\u0101tau i t\u0113nei K\u0101wanatanga e whakarite nei i ng\u0101 tat\u016Bnga ker\u0113me p\u0113nei i t\u0113nei. Ka mea atu, \u0101e, ka whakaae kia uru mai a Ng\u0101ti Hineuru ki roto i ng\u0101 mahi whakahaere o \u014D r\u0101tou rawa. K\u0101ti! E mihi atu ana ahau ki t\u0113r\u0101 whakaaro rangatira! Pai ake t\u0113r\u0101 i te kore! Pai ake t\u0113r\u0101 i te noho wahang\u016B o Ng\u0101ti Hineuru ki roto i \u014D r\u0101tou mahi whakahaere. N\u014D reira, ka mihi atu ahau ki t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga o te pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ET\u0113tahi w\u0101hanga kai roto i te pire i kapohia nei i te whakaaro o Peeni e t\u016B mai nei, ko t\u0113tahi e mea atu ana, ko ng\u0101 taonga t\u016Bturu kei roto i te pire nei. I te \u0101ta w\u0101nangahia te k\u014Drero kai roto i te pire, n\u0101, ka titiro an\u0101, koia r\u0101 \u0113n\u0101 ko ng\u0101 rawa ka puta mai i te whenua, ka puta mai hei oranga m\u014D te katoa. K\u0101ti, ka whakaaro ake ahau ki t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero te taonga t\u016Bturu! Ko te taonga t\u016Bturu o t\u0101ua Te M\u0101ori, he aha r\u0101 t\u0113nei? \u0112hara i te mea, n\u014D te whenua anake! \u0112hara i te mea n\u014D te rangi anake! Ka pup\u016B ake ko ng\u0101 taonga t\u016Bturu o ng\u0101 m\u0101tua t\u016Bpuna ki roto i te whatumanawa o te tangata, ki roto i te mauri i kawea ai e te tangata, n\u0101, ko Ng\u0101ti Hineuru kua tae mai i te r\u0101 nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EHei whakapakinga ake, kia m\u014Dhio mai koutou e Ngati Hineuru, kua tae mai t\u0113nei pire ki roto i tana p\u0101nuitanga tuatahi i mua i te aroaro o t\u0113nei Whare, i roto i te roanga ake o t\u014Dna haere ki roto i t\u0113nei Whare. Kei konei m\u0101tou katoa e tautoko ana i te pire, e \u0101hua \u0101ta titiro ana ki roto i w\u0101na k\u014Drero kei roto hei totohe, hei tut\u016Bnga i te puehu kia whakahoki atu te mana motuhake ki a koutou m\u0101 roto i \u014D koutou whainga \u0101 tae hoake nei. N\u014D reira, k\u0101ti! E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0101tou e hui katoa nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tau katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker of the House. \u201CBehold the descendants, behold the recollections, welcome indeed the sky above me, welcome indeed the reef heron from the north, perform the ritual, place the sacred red stone inwards, conclude the ritual by placing it outwards. Firm up the Hawaiki origins here, secure it. For that which wells up, suspend it from the sky above, secure it. Oh to be triumphant and to overcome Tangaroa; so join and be united; it is done!\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIn the beginning the Word was the Word, God was God, who was also that Word! That is it! Glory to his Holy name and that his protective and benevolent hand was upon you who arrived under the roof of our House. You brought the magnificent proposal of the ancestral forefathers, and that is the very reason why I glorify and stand in awe of our Creator, and that he continues to look after your hopes and aspirations of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, but at the same time for the grandchildren of future generations; glory to his Holy name! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EAnd now the thoughts go to the myriads of deaths. The Minister mentioned some of yours indeed, those who have gone beyond the veil, they who bore this proposal and hurt for a very long period, from the time the Government violated you, and us M\u0101ori indeed, to now. I continue to grieve within for them who are lost to the void. Welcome, depart! I add the many deaths that are upon us assembled here under the roof of our House to those who are gone. There is only one aphorism: \u201CThe shoal of Scorpis violaceus that passes beyond Nukutaurua will never return after that.\u201D Enough about those who have died! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI want the address to come back to us. I am supporting the Minister\u2019s address in regard to this matter about the bill settling the claims concerning the Treaty of Waitangi and Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, who arrived here today. I endorse the acknowledgments to the officials. They considered these statements and the substance of this bill and are here in the House for the first reading of the bill, and so I commend the Minister and all of his officials. I support the sentiments that this bill be referred to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee of this House and into the hands of the chairman seated on that side of the Chamber, and into the hands of the members on that committee, for them to consider the bill that is before us right now; I commend this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI endorse the accolades in regard to the passion, aspiration, and persistence of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru since the transgression of this matter in the 1990s, after the settlement of their claims relating to the Treaty of Waitangi claims was referred to the Waitangi Tribunal. It should be noted by the House that this coming October marks the 40th anniversary of the Waitangi Tribunal. And so I reflect on the vast number of settlement referrals that it has dealt with relating to tribes throughout, and to Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, who have arrived here today. I really commend them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI reflect on the historical and genealogical accounts that the Minister related and brought before the House today. Now, the Minister related the major battle upon \u014Cmarunui many years ago to us. The House and you, Mr Assistant Speaker, should note that this coming October we will commemorate the 150th year of that battle in \u014Cmarunui. The Minister told us that at that battle some descendants of the Ng\u0101ti Hineuru and of other tribes were imprisoned in the prison buildings on the Chatham Islands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EAt that time my mind went back to that period because there was another ancestor of note in M\u0101oridom on the Chatham Islands, but enough\u2014that was Te Kooti! I mulled over some of Te Kooti\u2019s proclamations. He said: \u201CI will save the remainder of the people that my hand created in the beginning for ever more! I will banish the wicked! I will protect the borders of R\u0113neti!\u201D The essence of that proclamation relates to the vision that Te Kooti witnessed when he was in prison on the Chatham Islands. So I thought about his relatives, to us M\u0101ori, mistreated by the Government during those years that the Minister alluded to just moments ago. And so I commiserate with those who were banished from their places that they had a right to stand on, including places that we know of today, namely as Te H\u0101roto, Tar\u0101wera, and the revered rivers that are recognised and referred to in the bill. I commiserate with them and mourn for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESo enough! I focus immediately now on the substantial details in this bill\u2014which there are a lot of! There are references to the hurt that has impacted on Ng\u0101ti Hineuru over the years. Now, there is a reference to a financial compensation that was granted to Ng\u0101ti Hineuru to realise their future aspirations and expectations. In some parts of the bill there are references to some places belonging to Ng\u0101ti Hineuru being returned to them. Now, in one part of the bill, Ng\u0101ti Hineuru is able to participate in the committees and boards that administer their resources. One such is the river of Rangitaiki, and the other one is the M\u014Dhaka River. We have seen this Government making considerations in settlements similar to this one. I say, yes, I agree that Ng\u0101ti Hineuru participate in the administration of their resources. Enough! I commend that noble thought. That is better than nothing at all. It is far better for Ng\u0101ti Hineuru to have a part to play in the administration of their resources than to remain silent. So I commend that aspect of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EAnother part of the bill that captures the mind of Peeni standing here is the one that refers to the original treasures here in this bill. I examined that statement in the bill thoroughly, and I suddenly realised that they were really resources from within the land that emerge as sustenance for everybody. So I pondered over that statement about anything prized that is original. What is anything prized that is original to us M\u0101ori; what in fact is this to us? It is not really something from the land alone, neither is it from the sky! And then it emerged that anything original that is prized by the forefathers is within a person, it is the very essence of life that each of us has; now there are Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, who have arrived here today! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIn closing, I want you, Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, to be cognisant of the fact that this bill has arrived before this House for its first reading and for the entire duration of its journey through it. We are all here supporting the bill and being somewhat analytic of its statements at times, debating and stirring up the dust a bit to ensure that your absolute independence eventually returns to you collectively through your aims. Therefore, enough! Mr Assistant Speaker of the House, I acknowledge and commend you and all of us gathered here; thank you.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00229b73e1c412d245739edebda08c719f3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b73e1c412d245739edebda08c719f3f\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker, kia ora t\u0101tau katoa e te Whare. Hei t\u012Bmatanga k\u014Drero m\u0101ku, hei whaiwhai haere i te ia o te k\u014Drero, me p\u0113nei rawa te k\u012B: \u201CT\u0113nei te ara kei runga ko te ara o t\u0113nei tipua, ko te ara o t\u0113nei ariki, ko te ara o t\u0113nei matua a iwi, ko te ara o Ranginui e t\u016B nei, o Papat\u016B\u0101nuku e takoto nei kia rarau iho r\u0101 ng\u0101 tapuwae o T\u0101ne, t\u0113nei te p\u014D, nau mai haere mai te r\u0101! Koia r\u0101 e Rongo whakairia ki runga, t\u016Bturu \u014Dwhiti whakamaua kia tina! Tina! Hui e, t\u0101iki e!\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKo t\u0101ku e hoa m\u0101 Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, haere mai. Ko te w\u0101hi ki a au e tautoko i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero a te Minita, ka tahi, \u0101, t\u0113nei o m\u0101ua a Peeni, ki a koutou kua tat\u016B mai. Ehara i te mea he tawhiti rawa ng\u0101 korero ki t\u0113r\u0101 i k\u014Drerohia n\u0101 e Peeni, e tika ana t\u0101na! Anei a Te Ururoa e tautoko ake ana i a ia, anei Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori e tautoko ake ana i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kua puta, anei m\u0101ua ko Strepsils e raruraru nei, kua p\u0101ngia e te maremare, n\u014D reira, e kore au e k\u014Drero m\u014D te w\u0101 roa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EE hoa m\u0101, ka mihi r\u0101 ki a koutou kua tat\u016B mai! E tika ana t\u0101 te Minita, otir\u0101, t\u0101 Peeni m\u014D te hunga kua ngaro atu. I a au e t\u016B nei ka hoki ng\u0101 mahara ki a Whet\u016B Tipiwai. Ko ia t\u0113r\u0101 i haere ki te mata o te whenua i raro i te korowai o Ng\u0101ti Hineuru te w\u0101 i a ia. Ka tangi ki a ia me t\u0113r\u0101 k\u0101hui kua ngaro atu i te tirohanga kanohi n\u014D reira, waiho r\u0101tau ki a r\u0101tau. Anei t\u0101tau i t\u0113nei r\u0101 huri noa i t\u014D t\u0101tau Whare me ng\u0101 mema katoa, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tau katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKai aku rangatira, ko au t\u0113tahi ka haere i roto i t\u014D koutou rohe ka puta i Rotorua, ka tae atu ki Taup\u014D, kua m\u014Dhio tonu ahau ka tae ana ki Taup\u014D, kotahi h\u0101ora me te toru hauwh\u0101 h\u0101ora pea, \u0101, ka tae atu ki roto o Ahuriri. \u0100, ka tae atu ki Tarawera kua m\u014Dhio, \u0101, kua \u0101hua tata atu ki t\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 takiw\u0101 ki Ahuriri. Ka tae atu ki Te H\u0101roto, \u0101, w\u0101 poto, \u0101, ka tae atu ki Ahuriri. Ka mutu, ka tata atu ki Ahuriri kua m\u014Dhio, kei reira tonu te Iron M\u0101ori e tatari ana ki te hunga pakari. N\u014D reira, kua waia k\u0113 au ki t\u0113r\u0101 rori, ki t\u0113r\u0101 takiw\u0101, ka mutu, e hia k\u0113 nei ng\u0101 w\u0101 kua haere au i t\u0113r\u0101 huarahi me te m\u014Dhio an\u014D hoki, ar\u0101 an\u014D te rohe p\u014Dtae o Ng\u0101ti Hineuru. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKua oti k\u0113 i te Minita nei te whakatakoto te h\u012Btori. E kore au e whakat\u014Dwai i \u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero, ka mutu, he p\u0113r\u0101 an\u014D hoki a Peeni, k\u0101o, e kore au e hoki ki \u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero. Ko te kaupapa nui ki a au i t\u0113nei r\u0101, ko te k\u012B atu, ehara i te mea he nui ng\u0101 rerek\u0113tanga o t\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 h\u012Btori i p\u0101 ki a koutou o Ng\u0101ti Hineuru ki \u0113tahi atu iwi o te motu. Ar\u0101, kua kite i \u0113tahi atu kanohi o Ng\u0101ruahine r\u0101 kua waia k\u0113 r\u0101tau ki te \u0101huatanga o t\u0113nei mea o te muru me te raupatu. P\u0113nei i t\u0101 Peeni e k\u014Drero nei, n\u0101 wai ng\u0101 whenua i wh\u0101nako? \u0112, n\u0101 te Karauna! Ka puta i roto i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero \u0101 k\u014D ake nei. Ka puta n\u0101 runga i te aha? \u0100, n\u0101 runga i te \u0101huatanga o te whawhai, o te tohe, ka tahi. Ka rua, n\u0101 te \u0101huatanga o ng\u0101 mahi tinihanga a te K\u014Dti M\u0101ori, t\u0113nei K\u014Dti N\u0101tive e t\u016B tonu i t\u0113nei w\u0101. N\u0101 reira, ka tangi ake! E tika ana te k\u014Drero, i noho kore whenua nei koutou, i raro i te korowai, i raro i te tirohanga o te K\u0101wanatanga! \u0112ngari, kua m\u014Dhio tonu koutou ki t\u014D koutou ake rohe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u0100, ka mutu, i rongo an\u014D hoki au i te k\u014Drero m\u014D Te Kooti. Ki t\u0101ku m\u014Dhio, \u0113, \u0101hua \u014Drite a Te Kooti ki ng\u0101 poropiti o roto o Taranaki, a Te Whiti o Rongomai r\u0101ua ko Tohu K\u0101kahi. He aha t\u0101 r\u0101tau kaupapa? Te rangimarie me te rongomau! \u0100 t\u014Dna mutunga mai, he aha te kaupapa i puta? Ko whawhai, ko pakanga! N\u014D reira, ka raruraru i reira! An\u0101, p\u0113nei i ng\u0101 mea o roto o Taranaki, \u0101, i heria ng\u0101 t\u0101ne ki \u014Ctepoti r\u0101 an\u014D. Te \u0101huatanga ki a Te Kooti me \u0101na t\u0101ngata kua heria atu ki Wharekauri r\u0101 an\u014D. He aha te mahi? Mauherehere nei i roto o \u014Ctepoti, mauherehere nei ki roto o Wharekauri. \u0112ngari, ko te mea pai i puta ko te rongopai. Ko t\u0113n\u0101 o ng\u0101 whakaaro ko te rongopai, ko te whakapono ki Te Atua. M\u0101 Te Atua an\u014D r\u0101 ng\u0101 mamaetanga, ng\u0101 p\u0113hitanga e whakatau. \u0112ngari, kei konei tonu t\u0101tau e k\u014Drero nei m\u014D \u0113n\u0101 uauatanga. N\u014D reira, ka tangi ake ki te \u0101huatanga o ng\u0101 mamae i rangona nei e te ng\u0101kau, e te wairua e te tinana o te tangata, \u014D koutou Ng\u0101ti Hineuru. Ka tangi ake ki te mamaetanga i utaina ai e Te Karauna ki runga i a Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, otir\u0101, ng\u0101 iwi o te motu. Kei konei tonu t\u0101tau e tohe nei m\u014D \u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHei whakak\u014Dpani i taku k\u014Drero kua rata atu au ki te \u0101huatanga o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D ng\u0101 pou e wh\u0101 i whakaritea mai ai e koutou. Tuatahi, kia whakaora an\u014D r\u0101 i te ara whanaunga ki \u0113tahi o t\u0113r\u0101 rohe, o t\u0113r\u0101 takiw\u0101. \u0100, ka pai hoki kia p\u0113r\u0101 rawa te \u0101hua. Tuarua, ko te whakaora i te oranga tonutanga o Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, \u0101-wairua, \u0101-t\u0101ngata, \u0101-ng\u0101kau. Tuatoru, kia whai t\u016Branga a Ng\u0101ti Hineuru i roto i ng\u0101 take katoa o te takiw\u0101. Me p\u0113r\u0101 ka tika! Tuawh\u0101, kia noho a Ng\u0101ti Hineuru hei kaitiaki i runga i \u014D r\u0101tau ake whenua. Koinei te tikanga, me p\u0113r\u0101 ka tika! N\u014D reira, ehara i te mea he nui ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i tua atu o t\u0113r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u0112ngari, m\u0113n\u0101 he kupu k\u014Drero hei whakak\u014Dpani i taku mihi ki a koutou i t\u0113nei r\u0101, m\u0113n\u0101 ko te tino rangatiratanga t\u0101 koutou e whai nei, ehara i te mea, ka kitea mai ai i roto i t\u0113nei pire, k\u0101o! \u0112ngari, koinei t\u0113tahi paku w\u0101hanga o te huarahi kia eke ki t\u0113r\u0101 taumata! N\u014D reira, kua puta te k\u014Drero mai i a Hineuru m\u014D Hineuru. M\u0113n\u0101 koinei te wh\u0101inga matua, ka pai hoki! Ko t\u0101ku, he tautoko ake i te mahi nui a te Minita, he whakatinana i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 kaupapa ko te p\u0101nuitanga tuatahi. Ar\u0101 an\u014D \u0113tahi mahi nui hei whakaoti \u0101 ng\u0101 marama tata kei mua i te aroaro. \u0112ngari, ko te ng\u0101kau o te Whare e tautoko ake i ng\u0101 kerem\u0113 katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EE hoa m\u0101, kia kakama ki te whakatutuki i te kaupapa nei! Kua roa m\u0101tau e k\u012B ana, kaua e k\u012B atu kua mutu te huarahi i t\u0113nei r\u0101, k\u0101o! Tonoa mai w\u0101 koutou tamariki, tonoa mai \u0101 koutou tamariki, ka kore e mutu \u0113nei \u0101huatanga ki konei \u0101 ng\u0101 marama tata kei mua i te aroaro! \u0112ngari, ko te mamae e kore e mutu! Kei roto i ng\u0101 tamariki, kei roto i a koutou! N\u014D hea mai? N\u014D te mahi a te Karauna ki \u014D koutou t\u016Bpuna, ki \u014D koutou m\u0101tua! N\u014D reira, t\u0113nei te mihi atu ki a koutou, ki a t\u0101tau e te Whare huri noa, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia kaha, kia toa!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and greetings to us all in the House. To begin my address and to follow up the tenor of it, allow me to say: \u201CThis path upwards is the path of this deity, this firstborn, this father of the tribe, this Sky Father above, this Mother Earth below, for man to place his feet upon this night, welcome the day, welcome! That is it; Rongo, hang these words up there and fix it firmly! Firmly and permanently! Join, gather, entwine!\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWelcome to you my friends of Hineuru, welcome. Firstly, I endorse the Minister\u2019s statements, and those of the fellow member Peeni Henare, to you who have arrived here. My sentiments are not too far away from those expressed by Peeni, and what he has stated is correct. Te Ururoa is standing here supporting what he said, as is the M\u0101ori Party, and so are my Strepsils, as I am troubled somewhat by a cough, and as a consequence will not be speaking too long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFriends, you have arrived and I really welcome you. In regard to those who have passed away, the tributes by the Minister and Peeni are so appropriate, and as I stand here my thoughts go back to Whet\u016B Tipiwai, who travelled the country under the cloak of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru during his lifetime. I mourn him and those who are lost from our sight, and so allow them to rest there in their own company. And here we are today throughout our House with all the members; I acknowledge us all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI am one who, my esteemed elders, when I leave Rotorua to go to your region, once I get to Taup\u014D I know that I will reach Napier in about an hour and three quarters. So when I get to Tarawera I am cognisant of the fact that I am getting closer to one of those Napier boundaries. When I reach Te H\u0101roto I know that in a short while I will get to Napier, and also, just before I get there, the place for the Iron M\u0101ori event is still there, waiting for the fit ones. Therefore, I am accustomed to that road, that area, and so I have travelled that highway several times, knowing full well that it is Ng\u0101ti Hineuru territory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe Minister has already outlined the history. I will not add anything further, and besides, Peeni did the same. No, I will not go back to those historical accounts. My major platform today is saying to you, Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, that there is not a great deal of difference about that history that relates to you as it does to other tribes. I see the face of others like Ng\u0101ruahine especially; you are accustomed to this thing about plundering and confiscation, as Peeni said in his address. Who stole the land? Er, the Crown stole it! That will emerge in accounts to follow. Based on what? Based on the circumstances of warfare and disputes is one; two, the deceitful actions of the M\u0101ori Land Court, this Native Land Court that continues to exist today. And so I grieve. It is true that you were left landless under the cloak and watchful eye of the Government. But you know your region well\u2014very well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFurthermore, I also heard about the stories about Te Kooti. In my opinion, Te Kooti is a bit like the Taranaki prophets Te Whiti of Rongomai and Tohu K\u0101kahi. What did they advocate? Calm and peace. What was the outcome? Conflict, warfare! And so it broke down there. In the case of the ones in Taranaki, the men were taken all the way to Dunedin. In Te Kooti and his followers\u2019 situation, they were taken all the way to the Chatham Islands. What did they do there? The ones who were taken to Dunedin were imprisoned there, and the ones taken to the Chatham Islands were imprisoned as well. But peace was the great thing that emerged. In regard to that thought, it was the peace and belief in God that emerged from the imprisonment. Only God can settle the hurt and oppression. But we are still here talking about the circumstances of those hardships that the heart, spirit, and body of those of you of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru experienced. I grieve for the hurt that the Crown inflicted upon you, Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, and indeed upon the tribes of the nation. And here we are debating those accounts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I warm to the four milestones that you came up with for us to consider. The first one is to restore familial relationships with others in that region or district. It is wonderful if that is the situation being sought. The second one is to restore the very spiritual health, bodily health, and welfare of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru. The third one is for Ng\u0101ti Hineuru to have a position in all matters relating to the district. That must occur as of right. And the fourth one is that Ng\u0101ti Hineuru remains a guardian over its own lands. This is the custom, and it must be so. Aside from that, I do not have much more to add. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHowever, if there is a comment to close my welcome to you today, it is this: if self-determination is what you are seeking, you will not find it in this bill\u2014absolutely not. But this is a small step towards attaining that level. And so the story from Hineuru about Hineuru has emerged. If that is the main aim, then that is absolutely wonderful. My role is to support the great work of the Minister in implementing this first reading. There is much more work of importance for us to complete in the near months ahead. The heart of the House is really set on supporting all the claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EColleagues, we need to make haste to complete this matter. We have for a long time said that the road has not ended here today; no, it has not at all. Send your children, your youngsters here; these circumstances will not finish here, in the near months ahead of us. And the pain will not end! It is in the children; it is in you. Where is it coming from? From the actions of the Crown, to your ancestors and your parents. And so I acknowledge you and us in the House collectively throughout; well done, congratulations, be strong, be staunch!]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7301cc86de7489da5a2cd8369cfbcc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7301cc86de7489da5a2cd8369cfbcc4\u0022\u003EMEKA WHAITIRI (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Assistant Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 koe; e ng\u0101 mema o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Ng\u0101ti Hineuru whenua, Ng\u0101ti Hineuru mana, Ng\u0101ti Hineuru tangata, t\u0113nei te mihi maioha ki a koutou. T\u0113nei te mihi maioha i runga i te kaupapa whakahirahira. \u0100e, kua tae mai te w\u0101 kia h\u014Dnore Te K\u014Dr\u014Dria o Te Atua. N\u014D reira, e te iwi, nau mai, nau mai, hara mai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and greetings to you all, the members of the House. To you, Ng\u0101ti Hineuru land, authority, and people, my affectionate welcome to you in regard to this great proposal. The moment to honour the Glory of God has arrived, and so I bid you, the tribe, welcome, welcome, welcome.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIt is indeed an honour to stand, to acknowledge, and to support unreservedly the passage of this historic bill, the Hineuru Claims Settlement Bill. Like previous speakers in the House, I too want to acknowledge those who are no longer here with us both to witness today the first reading of this important bill but also to see the conclusion of what I understand has been a real struggle in getting to this point. So I mihi, in their honour, to those who are no longer here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIn the short time I have it is important to acknowledge those who have been instrumental in bringing this bill to this House today. I do want to acknowledge the negotiators of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru and to commend them for the tenacity they have shown and the commitment and the generosity\u2014using the words of the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations\u2014in getting to an acceptable settlement here today. As a former negotiator myself, I understand the commitment that being a negotiator requires\u2014it requires a commitment of character when you have to travel home to your people and you get called all sorts of things; a commitment to make sure that you are doing the absolute best for your people. So I do want to commend and acknowledge the negotiators for getting us here today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EOf course, we would not be here unless we had the support of the Crown. I want to acknowledge the Office of Treaty Settlements officials for their role. I also want to acknowledge the Minister, Chris Finlayson. He has overseen a lot of Treaty settlements and I want to support and acknowledge his support in getting us here. Of course, as this bill goes to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, I want to acknowledge the chair and the members of a very hard-working select committee that does the best for our people, and I want to acknowledge them in support of the work that they get. Hopefully we will get this bill back in quick time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI do not want to go through it in detail because there is too much to cover in the short time I have. There are two parts of the historical account that I want to draw to the House\u2019s attention and make note of in my contribution. One is about the 34 Hineuru individuals who were among the 86 prisoners of the Crown captured at \u014Cmarunui and the conflict near P\u0113tane. Most were transported to the Chatham Islands, which the Minister acknowledged, and detained without trial for 2 years in harsh conditions. In 1868 the prisoners escaped and became embroiled in a war with the Crown. During this war, the Crown forces attacked Ng\u0101tapa in January of 1869. After the attack a severed head, reported to belong to Nikora of Hineuru, was brought back to the Crown camp. The Crown forces similarly executed a number of prisoners captured at Ng\u0101tapa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EWith that record of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru\u2019s historical account, I draw the conclusion that it is one that is similar to that shared with my father\u2019s people of Rongowhakaata, who, along with Hineuru, lost many lives at Ng\u0101tapa. In fact, women and children were shot and thrown over the hill at Ng\u0101tapa. I feel the hurt that Ng\u0101ti Hineuru have, particularly for those people who were executed at Ng\u0101tapa. Kei te mihi ki a koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThe second point that I want to raise in the historical account is what I have also seen in many other Treaty settlements. The Minister referred to the taking of land and the returning of land in 1920 to those descendants\u2014to the individual M\u0101ori\u2014and how that was overturned in some other forms of legislation in the 1950s, when Ng\u0101ti Hineuru again became landless. There have been many settlements where we have seen the actions of the Crown reward those who either fought or enabled the Crown to take the actions that it did on our people by the gifting of land, and then the taking away of land. I just want to draw attention to that particular point because right in front of this House we are dealing with a bill around M\u0101ori land, which is ng\u0101 ture whenua. I wanted to draw a comparison between what the current Government is doing and some of these historical Acts that have breached the rights of the people of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru. I want to make the point that when we are passing legislation in this House that impacts on the rights of M\u0101ori landowners, we have to do that very, very carefully. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThat is my message today in celebrating this first reading of this important bill: we cannot bring legislation in here that further alienates M\u0101ori from their whenua. When we read the historical account of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, they, like many, many iwi, were left landless. It is upon us, as parliamentarians, as members of this House, that the property rights of iwi katoa need to be protected. I want to acknowledge this in the support of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EWith the minutes I have left, my closing comments\u2014and I support the Minister\u2014are around the generosity that Ng\u0101ti Hineuru have displayed in getting to this final settlement. They have been subjected to atrocious breaches of their rights as guaranteed under the Treaty of Waitangi. Therefore it is important and incumbent on all members of this House that we not only acknowledge those breaches but we support what has been negotiated, like the Minister said, under trying times to ensure that we can at least, in a very small part, accord a form of compensation, of remedy, that will ensure that the aspirations of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru are strong as we go forward. Therefore, I stand with all members in this House in commending the first reading of this bill, the Hineuru Claims Settlement Bill. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5ba41c2ac9649c4931d87592e79fe8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5ba41c2ac9649c4931d87592e79fe8f\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. Ka mea nui ki te mihi atu ki t\u014D t\u0101tou Matua Nui i Te Raki me te t\u012Bmataka me te tautoko o Te Ao katoa. N\u014D reira, ka mihi atu hei h\u014Dmai ng\u0101 mea katoa. E ng\u0101 manuhiri a tu\u0101raki, ka mihi ki a Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, Te Kura Mouka, Te M\u014Dhaka Awa, Rangi H\u012Broa te tangata, ka mihi. Ng\u0101ti Hineuru e mihi nei, e tangi nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, e mihi atu ki a koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. The most important thing is to acknowledge our Almighty Father in Heaven and the beginning and the support of the whole world, and so I give thanks to all things given. I welcome you, the visitors from afar, Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, the mountain Kura, the river M\u014Dhaka, and the man Rangi H\u012Broa. I mourn and bid you welcome, Ng\u0101ti Hineuru; greetings, and salutations to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI want first to acknowledge the representatives of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru who are here today, and, through you, I want to acknowledge all of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru and the pain and loss that have been caused to you by the actions of the New Zealand Government over many years. I also want to acknowledge the many years of hard work that successive generations of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru people have put into seeking redress for multiple breaches of the Treaty of Waitangi. The iwi have sought fulfilment of six pou whenua, or milestones, within this agreement that reflect the nature and the scale of the losses that Ng\u0101ti Hineuru have sustained. These include, tuatahi, restoration and protection of their cultural heritage and history for the future generations. This reflects the severe impact on Ng\u0101ti Hineuru\u2019s culture and traditions of the loss of land and identity they suffered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EPast New Zealand Governments had labelled the iwi as rebels to justify a tax on them and the confiscation of their land. The Waitangi Tribunal concluded that Hineuru were not in rebellion, but the labelling of the iwi as rebels persists in some historical accounts. This treatment of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru as rebels also led to much of their land being given to other iwi who were allies of the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ETuarua is the restoration of the health and well-being of their people. Unsurprisingly, the confiscation of such large amounts of land had a detrimental effect on Hineuru\u2019s living conditions, particularly housing. The poor health and state of poverty that resulted still affect Hineuru to this day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ETuatoru is the recognition of the mana of Hineuru and the restoration of the relativity Hineuru had with other iwi. Over the years the Crown had systematically undermined the mana of Hineuru and failed to acknowledge it as an iwi in its own right. The classification of Hineuru as a hap\u016B of other iwi in the region has held back its ability to develop a partnership relationship with the Crown and to maintain its relativity with other iwi in the area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ETuawh\u0101 is the reassertion of the presence of Hineuru, through their rohe. Before the intervention of the Crown, Hineuru were a key iwi in a strategic position in the Hawke\u2019s Bay. Following the mass confiscation of their lands Hineuru were left in the position of being considered a minor iwi, to the point where they have often been left off lists of iwi in the region. This has included also not being listed as an iwi in census material. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ETuarima is rebuilding an economy base for Hineuru. As well as the devastating effect on their culture, health, and mana, massive land confiscations have prevented Hineuru from building any sort of an economic base. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EAs with any Treaty settlements, this one will not try to compensate Ng\u0101ti Hineuru fully for the land and the subsequent economic opportunities that have been lost. But we must acknowledge that every iwi that reaches this point of the settlement process has shown a great generosity of spirit in accepting that full compensation for past wrongs is not possible, accepting instead an apology for past wrongs and a small investment in their future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ETuaono, revitalisation and restoration of Hineuru\u2019s role as kaitiaki of their resources and their environment. Hineuru will be given a greater role to play in the management of resources within their rohe. This may be recorded in the deed of settlement as a form of redress, and, indeed, Hineuru\u2019s exclusion from the management of these resources is wrong and is indeed in need of correction. But it is also very easy to see this as another form of generosity on the part of Hineuru. Since the Crown took responsibility for the management of these natural resources, they have been degraded. The iwi are now once again becoming involved in the management of these resources, which have been degraded on the Crown\u2019s watch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EAt the risk of becoming repetitive, I want to reiterate what I have said in this House many times before: involving iwi in the management of the environment is a win-win. New Zealanders, whether M\u0101ori or non-M\u0101ori, are people who value our natural environment and who derive all sorts of benefits from it, be it our enjoyment of our beautiful national parks, our mahinga kai, our enjoyment of outdoor recreation, or the economic benefits of tourism. M\u0101ori have a unique perspective and a valuable contribution to make to the management of our natural environment. We already know that the Hawke\u2019s Bay will benefit from this settlement through the increased economic development that will come out of the financial redress, but it will also benefit from Hineuru\u2019s involvement in the economic management of their region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI want to reiterate to the people of Hineuru\u2014I say this: your many years of struggling to right the wrongs of the past are nearly over. You have signed your deed of settlement and soon this bill will give legal effect to that agreement that has come to fruition with the Crown. When that day comes and this bill is passed, it will be up to you to turn this small settlement into a brighter future for your people. The struggles are behind you, but a different type of challenge lies ahead for you. I know that your rangatira will already be preparing for that challenge. As chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, I look forward to considering this bill and welcoming the people of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru and any others who come to our committee hearings to make submissions on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to acknowledge the members of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. We work in congeniality as a collective, and we work for our people. This is a true reflection of the work that still needs to be done. I have no hesitation in commending this bill to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u00229ab1f264e40544c9bc533caf360b81bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ab1f264e40544c9bc533caf360b81bd\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou te Whare P\u0101remata. He mihi nui ki a Ng\u0101ti Hineuru me Te K\u014Dpere trustees o te Iwi o Hineuru Trust i n\u0101 ahik\u0101roa o \u014D r\u0101tou whenua, he mihi nui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. Greetings to you collectively, the House of Parliament; a huge one to you Ng\u0101ti Hineuru; and a great gesture by the trustees of the Te K\u014Dpere o te iwi o Hineuru Trust, who are promoting the continuous occupation of their lands.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is very pleased to stand in support of the first reading of this settlement bill. I think we feel very deeply that what has been \u201Cinvisible-ised\u201D must be brought into the light through this process. This iwi has been through more than most people in this country could possibly imagine\u2014more marginalisation, more violence, and more land loss\u2014with the added hurt of being \u201Cinvisible-ised\u201D right up to relatively recent times. Saying their name, acknowledging their mana, recognising their place, and recognising their work and their tenacity to get to this point is a very important part of it, as is recognising their t\u016Bpuna and those who have gone before, and those who have gone before in the negotiation process to get to this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThe story of the historical account is, indeed, a profound experience to read. It is a heavy story, much like many others that we have heard in this House, but with the added pain of so much of it being unknown to many others and so much of it being marginalised. So many other names are known, but the story of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru has to come to light so that this nation can move forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ELike my colleagues, I want to acknowledge that there is too much to cover in the first reading, but it is a beginning, and I want to acknowledge, as Meka Whaitiri said, that there is so much in the historical account to acknowledge and so much that needs to be talked about. I just want to touch on, perhaps, my whakapapa as a P\u0101keh\u0101, requiring me to acknowledge the role, which needs to be examined, of people like Donald MacLean and Whitmore\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229195d5419c7e4d4c9558f486b316d9d7\u0022\u003EMeka Whaitiri\u003C/span\u003E: Hard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221290b792c8b84dd794574d72020407fe\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014General Whitmore. Streets are named after these men all over the country, particularly on the East Coast. Streets are named after these men, and they are regarded as the founding fathers. But where is the street that is named after Te Rangi H\u012Broa? Where is the street that is named after the t\u016Bpuna of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru? So I think that it is very important that we actually examine the behaviour of all of our t\u016Bpuna, including those of the P\u0101keh\u0101 culture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EWe look at the historical account and we can see that Donald MacLean decided without a really clear explanation that the people were a threat. The Crown, under Donald MacLean, decided that the party at \u014Cmarunui was a threat to the security of the regions surrounding Napier. It could be argued that in the context of the wars that were taking place that Donald MacLean was acting in the interests of the P\u0101keh\u0101 community, but what he was doing was acting in the interests of colonisation. So too was General Whitmore acting in the interests of my culture to take over the whenua of many peoples\u2014particularly this people, Ng\u0101ti Hineuru. So this is, indeed, a dishonourable story, which is really important to acknowledge, and we need to acknowledge the death that took place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EAfter all of the negotiations and the mana of people like Te Rangi H\u012Broa and after all of their attempts to negotiate in fairness and justice with the Crown, what happened at \u014Cmarunui and P\u0113tane in those days tells another story: a story of dishonour on behalf of my people, my culture, and the Crown. That needs to be acknowledged in order for us all to move forward. There needs to be acknowledgment of those things because it is tragic to read that halfway through the 1860s the men were either dead, had retreated to other parts of the motu, or had been transported to Wharekauri. And so the women at Tarawera lamented their losses every morning and evening with customary mourning practices, scoring themselves with pipi shells \u201Cwith the effect of making them weep most naturally.\u201D There is much to weep about when all of your men have been taken, when your land has been taken, and when your people are on an island offshore with Te Kooti without trial and without justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EAnd so the story continues to be intertwined with the story of Te Kooti, Pai M\u0101rire, and the Hauhau movement, and the story of the people returning to Whareongaonga, a place I have been to, where Te Kooti and people from Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, the whakarau, landed in order to return to Aotearoa. But that was just another round of tragedy and another round of marginalisation. I think that it is really important to acknowledge that the whakarau should never be forgotten; that story should be taught in every school in this country. People need to understand what it is to be imprisoned without trial, to escape peacefully, basically, and to come back to your home country, and then to be hounded by the Crown throughout the motu. I think that we have already touched on what happened at Ng\u0101tapa\u2014an appalling story of Crown culpability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ESo it is really important that we acknowledge that the end of the war meant that Hineuru could maybe return finally to their rohe, but, of course, that was not the end of the instruments of colonisation. So then comes another hundred years\u2014another hundred years\u2014of rip-offs, manipulations, individualisations, and destruction through the wonderful instruments that the Crown had created in order to continue the colonisation process. So we might debate how much is being spent on Te Tiriti settlements, but we need to remember that we have got more than 170 years of the rip-off and that we need to invest in the healing. We need to do that properly, and we need to invest in that healing. So it is really important that we actually understand what happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI support the fact that the historical account is very, very clear that the 1951 royal commission report raised more issues and acknowledged that the Crown should not have interfered with the titles that were provided in 1870, but still it goes on. Still there was more marginalisation and loss. So today we are beginning a more positive moment, as my colleague Nuk Korako showed when he took us through the settlement aspirations and the response. Still the people have held on and they have very clear aspirations. They have the six pou, and those six pou are very, very strong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI was in Tai R\u0101whiti this week with another iwi who have had their settlement, and one of the things they said to me was: \u201CYes, it\u2019s very awesome to be focusing on the rebuild, and we must, but one of the tragedies is so many people have left. How do we bring our people home?\u201D. So I am sure that that will be part of the plan, but it is not an easy plan because to bring the people home, you have to have work for the people. You have to have mahi, and to create mahi, it takes more than a one-off settlement. So I honour the pou because I can see the vision, but I think that it also behoves the rest of the motu and the Crown to actually facilitate not just a settlement but also a genuine opportunity for regional development that will allow those settlements to be what they can be, and not just to leave it to the iwi involved to find a way, because there is so much to rebuild\u2014there is so much to rebuild. It is not only the reconnection to the whenua and the whakapapa but also the reconnection to the taonga and the reconnection to the relationship with awa and with maunga\u2014all of those things\u2014and then to be able to survive in their own rohe, on the terms that the people have defined in their settlement aspirations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ESo there is much work to be done, and in the first reading all that we can do is say \u201CFantastic work.\u201D to the negotiators and honour what they have created here as a first step\u2014as a platform\u2014but also recognise how much more there is to be done. The Green Party does need to say, as we always do, that settlements are not full and final; they are the first step. There is always more negotiating to take place, and there is a need for more investment by the Crown because so much was destroyed and taken. The miracle is that the vision of the people\u2014the kaupapa that we face here today\u2014was not destroyed and taken. That is something that we need to honour here today. That is something to be proud of. But, again, I say to my own people, to P\u0101keh\u0101 t\u0101tou, as well as to the Crown, that we need to learn the history. When we drive down Whitmore Street and we look down MacLean whatever, we need to recognise that, actually, those men did things in our name from which we have benefited at the expense of an iwi such as Ng\u0101ti Hineuru.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ESo in order to move forward together as a nation\u2014kotahitanga, unity, mana motuhake\u2014we as P\u0101keh\u0101 have to face those things and say that there are other names. There are other people who stood strong and whom we should honour. Whether it is Te Kooti or Te Rangi H\u012Broa, we need to stand up and honour those people. We need to know why we own all the whenua and why we control the resources today, so that redress can be understood by P\u0101keh\u0101 and so that there will be a generosity of spirit on our side of the culture, as well as a generosity by the Crown, and instead of expecting all of the generosity that has been given today by Ng\u0101ti Hineuru in a settlement that does go some way to restoring the people but that will still take a lot more work. So I guess we are very happy to support this settlement. We are very happy that the \u201Cinvisiblisation\u201D of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru is over and that this iwi will not only be seen but also be able to begin to be strong again. Kia kaha. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u0022aae2a7fdabc44b939f86aa76c208e165\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aae2a7fdabc44b939f86aa76c208e165\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 an\u014D hoki t\u0101tou. E t\u016B w\u0101hi t\u0113nei ki te tautoko ng\u0101 mihi i mihingia e aku tu\u0101kana me te tuahine hoki ki a koutou a Hineuru, kua tae mai nei kei waenganui i a t\u0101tou ki te \u2018hakarongo te \u2018hakatakototanga o t\u0101 koutou pire. Aroha ana au ki a koutou. He aha ai? Ko te moata o t\u0113nei take i haere mai ki mua i te Whare nei. Taku kitenga m\u0113n\u0101 he take M\u0101ori, \u0101, tukuna atu i t\u0113nei waha. \u0112ngari m\u0113n\u0101 he take P\u0101keh\u0101, \u0101, waihotia ki te ahiahi kia m\u014Dhio mai te motu wh\u0101nui e aha ng\u0101 take, e aha ng\u0101 k\u014Drero \u0113ngari m\u014D ng\u0101 take M\u0101ori, waihotia ki te ata, he iti noa iho ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata e m\u0101takitaki pouaka whakaata, \u2018hakarongo ki ng\u0101 reo Irirangi, n\u0101 reira, aroha ana i a koutou kia moata, kia haere mai ai koutou ki te whakarongo ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero. Kia ahatia? \u0112ngari, ka nui taku mihi ki a koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003ETua atu i t\u0113n\u0101, kei te kaha taku p\u016Bhaehae ki a koutou hoki! He aha ai? N\u0101 te mea, e\u2019hakaae ana te Karauna ki a koutou, he iwi! Ki ahau nei, horekau he raru ki t\u0113n\u0101! \u0112ngari, ki a m\u0101tou o te hau k\u0101inga, t\u014Dku wh\u0101nau anahe, tata k\u0113 ki te rima mano, \u0113ngari, i kite atu i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i roto i te pire nei, e tahi mano, rima rau i a koutou, n\u0101 reira, ka nui taku mihi. Ka nui hoki taku p\u016Bhaehae i a koutou n\u0101 te mea e \u2018hakaae ana te Karauna ki a koutou he iwi. Kia ahatia? \u0112ngari, korekau e mimiti te k\u014Drero ki a koutou me p\u0113n\u0101 o ng\u0101 hunga korekau i waenganui i a t\u0101tou i te r\u0101 nei \u0113ngari, n\u0101 r\u0101tou i t\u012Bmata mai te kawetanga o t\u0113nei kaupapa, tae noa ki t\u0113nei w\u0101, tae noa ki t\u0113nei. N\u0101 reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and greetings to us all once again. I stand to endorse the tributes that were accorded by my elder male colleagues and my female colleague to you, Hineuru, who have arrived here amongst us to listen to the reading of your bill. I sympathise with you all. Why? Because of the early hour this matter has come before this House. When I saw that it was a M\u0101ori matter, I said allow it in this instance. But if it is a non-M\u0101ori matter, leave it for the afternoon so that the public can become aware of the issues and what was said. But as far as M\u0101ori issues are concerned, leave it for the morning, as only a small number watch television or listen to the radio, and so I feel sorry for those of you who came early to listen to the addresses. What can be done about that? But I admire you greatly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EFurther to that, I am also envious of you all! Why? Because the Crown recognised you as a tribe! I personally do not have an issue with that. But for us back in our home area, just our family alone, we are close to 15,000, but according to the detail in this bill I see that there are nearly 1,500 of you. I applaud you greatly. I envy you greatly too because the Crown accepts you as a tribe. So what? But like those who are no longer amongst you today, we cannot say enough for the part they played at the start, when they took up this proposal to where it is this moment, at this stage; so congratulations to you collectively.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EAs I have just said in my introductory comments, I support the words of welcome extended by colleagues in the House. But I also want to have it said in English that although I cannot congratulate Hineuru enough, it is with great envy that I acknowledge them. In the bill, it talks about the iwi numbering approximately 1,500 people, which, compared with the settlement that has been granted them, as individual recipients, makes this one of the most generous settlements that we can see in terms of per person. Be that as it may, having said that, my envy is really about the fact that my own family is almost 5,000 and, yet, my iwi is still considered a hap\u016B. However, having said that, it does not detract from the rationale that this bill has given to this settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI just want to say that the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations alluded to and acknowledged the generosity of iwi, and particularly of Hineuru, given that, as we well know, any settlement will not be a complete settlement. Again, we have here today an iwi that is prepared to go into settlement, accept the negotiations, and know within themselves that this will not completely compensate them for the things that the Crown has done to them. But I have no doubt that during the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee process we will certainly learn more about it, and we will also learn from those who are not satisfied with this settlement. That is one of the beauties about the select committee process; it gives everybody the opportunity to express a view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI do not need to reiterate the history that has led to this settlement bill, other than to say that it is to the Crown\u2019s credit that it has acknowledged that, and this is part of the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI also want to say that although this is a time of joy, particularly for Hineuru, I just want to make a comment that is really about politics. The Minister made reference to an apology being required\u2014not an apology to Hineuru but an apology from a political party that produced the facts. If any apology should be given, it should be given by the Minister to those whom he appointed as Crown negotiators, because we did not name any Crown negotiator, and then when he started doing that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227df6a87942ce4edab692dc07b3c0ae93\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t spoil it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212ca0bb2b1a148bf89b0902807200df7\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014then, in our mind, he has to take responsibility for issuing that apology. And do not tell me about not spoiling things. If the Minister had not said anything\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212e4f24a6ebb4a9ebd2695af7e1c8662\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member will resume his seat. I just want to say that the Minister did make some comments that were not strictly within the ambit of this bill. The member has replied, and the member will now come back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c26c1fa81f3243c7b063de7981a57854\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker\u2014the point is taken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe financial redress is $25 million, and includes interest and, of course, the return of culturally significant properties, particularly the Tarawera hot springs scenic reserve, and quite clearly that meets the needs of Hineuru. There probably were other properties that Hineuru would have liked included. Hopefully, they will let us know during the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee process and we will bring it back to the House\u2014rest assured of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EOf course, there is the erection of a pou whenua, and I think that is one way of ensuring that the claim of Hineuru is well known not only to this generation but also to generations to come. So the total compensation is roughly $50 million, and, as I alluded to earlier, divide $50 million by 1,500 people\u2014but hei aha? That will never ever fully meet those transgressions that the Crown did against Hineuru.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI am particularly interested in the cultural redress. It officially recognises Ng\u0101ti Hineuru as an iwi. They were regarded as a hap\u016B of T\u016Bwharetoa, and I would be very interested to learn from them how they were able to do that, so that Ng\u0101ti Hine might have the same recognition as an iwi too. Mr Deputy Speaker, I see that you are giving me the signal\u2014other than to say that we will support this bill and look forward to hearing from the claimants during the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee hearings. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u0022355f0cb8af0c420395ac603a8fa7b44e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022355f0cb8af0c420395ac603a8fa7b44e\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. Ka huri au ki te Wh\u0101nau o Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, nau mai, haere mai, ki a koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I turn to the family of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru and welcome you all, welcome.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI am humbled. I am very humbled to be standing here today to take a call on the first reading of the Hineuru Claims Settlement Bill. I am humbled because your journey has been a long one, and as I have read about your history and heard about your history I am saddened within my heart that all of those things have happened to you. So when I stand here today to take this call on the first reading, I stand here and I look at a people who have lost their land, who have been attacked, who have been imprisoned\u2014enough hara that will send a people away for good. But through the strength of your t\u012Bpuna and of the people who have kept on fighting for Ng\u0101ti Hineuru\u2014I just want to say that I am humbled. I am very humbled to be standing in front of you today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EAs a member of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee I am looking forward to the whole process of this bill coming back to the select committee. We on the select committee do a lot of work around the claims process, listening to the submissions etc. In respect of this particular one I am most interested, because up until today it was the first time that I had heard of your iwi. I can tell you that now, and I feel a lot of whakam\u0101 about that. So, therefore, I will be looking with much interest at the process from here on in, and through to the fruition of your claims process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI know that the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations has said that the amount that you are being given within the redress may not be as much as what everybody thinks it should be, but it is a start. It is a start towards your economic future, the economic future of your mokopuna\u2014the mokopuna who will lead you all into the future. Ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata, the people of today, have done all the work, along with educating your mokopuna in the process that has happened, and your mokopuna will lead where you are going to go into the future. I believe that through this process you have a very bright future. It is not how much you get; it is what you do with it that counts. It is like Ng\u0101i Tahu and what they got back then. People would have said \u201COh, that wasn\u2019t a lot.\u201D, but they took that little bit and they turned it into a multibillion-dollar business. I can see that happening for you as your iwi grows past this point. So without any further ado, I want to say thank you. Thank you for taking on the Crown process, thank you for accepting the work of our Minister, the Hon Chris Finlayson. He would be and will go down in history of this Government and of future Governments and Governments of the past as one of the best Treaty negotiation Ministers to ever walk the halls of our Parliament. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u00226af25abc7ed6450491a959fd4ca6cf03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226af25abc7ed6450491a959fd4ca6cf03\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. E ng\u0101 mana, e ng\u0101 reo, e rau rangatira m\u0101, ng\u0101 whanaunga o Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. I stand here filled with much emotion. I found my Uncle Nick\u2019s submission. It was delivered during the hearing period of 27 to 31 January 1997. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWhat I want to do is acknowledge Peter Kahukiwa and others who, on 27 July 1992, lodged their claim, which is Wai 299. Part of that lodging and part of the resolution of that particular Treaty claim also has relevance to other Wai claims, and I want to acknowledge the people who lodged those claims. The Wai 299 claim was consolidated, and it included Wai 119, which is Ariel Whai Aranui and others; Wai 168, which is Anik\u0101nara Te Haip\u014D Hadfield and others; Wai 191, Tamihana Matekino Nuku and others; Wai 216, Moari Karaitiana and others; Wai 400, Hoani H\u014Dhepa; Wai 436, W\u012B Te Tau Huata and others; Wai 488, Terry O\u2019Sullivan; Wai 491, it says \u201CNiger\u201D\u2014I will not say the other pronunciation\u2014Baker and others; Wai 598, David Kinita and others; Wai 599, Tuhiao Kahukiwa and others; Wai 600, Te Rina Sullivan and others; Wai 601, Winifred Kupa and others; Wai 602, Willie Bush; Wai 608, Lyndhurst O\u2019Donnell; Wai 627, Albert Eden; Wai 692, Hana Loyla Cotter and others; Wai 731, Kevin Te Taka Kupa and another; and Wai 732, Albert Edward Eden. I have read the names of the people who started this process 23 years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the board of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru Iwi Inc. That board is chaired by T\u016Bhuiao Kahukiwa. The deputy chair is Karauna Brown, who is also the lead negotiator. Other members are Ivy Kahukiwa-Smith, Toi T\u0101whai, Tirohia Bridger, R\u0113nata Bush, and Te Reo Spooner. Today is a great day for the iwi of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru. I must admit that growing up\u2014and actually, in my Uncle Nick\u2019s submission he said that Ng\u0101ti Hineuru was a hap\u016B of Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa. Actually, what I want to do is acknowledge that many years ago when I was contacted about Ng\u0101ti Hineuru being an iwi, and while going through our claims settlement, I said: \u201CNo; I was always told that I am Ng\u0101ti Tutemohuta and Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, and that we are part of Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa.\u201D But what I do want to acknowledge, obviously, is our whanaungatanga\u2014our close relationship\u2014and I want to acknowledge Ng\u0101ti Hineuru in their own right. Obviously, I have to sort out my pepeha now and claim not only T\u016Bwharetoa, Hineuru\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c188df8e5e1d4d2e87e1199215af0550\u0022\u003EMeka Whaitiri\u003C/span\u003E: You can register.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228071bd11a07f4b4dab4472915c0c8204\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL\u003C/span\u003E: I think my Uncle Robbo has already registered in part of the process. It is really interesting reading my Uncle Nick\u2019s submission. He made this, as I said, in 1997. He went to Te H\u0101roto School, and my nanny, W\u0101riti Te Pohe, and, obviously, my great-grandfather Ng\u0101hiri Te Pohe. When I look at my Uncle Nick\u2014and I will have to save Uncle Nick\u2019s submission for the second reading\u2014and his children, so Ng\u0101here Te Pohe my cousin, and my other cousin Ng\u0101toru Mahupuka, they obviously got the names from Ng\u0101ti Hineuru. My Uncle Nick, who went Te H\u0101roto School\u2014in 1946 my dad was only a baby. Growing up we went to Te H\u0101roto when I was a kid, a lot. So I want to acknowledge all the wh\u0101nau. I have not had as close a relationship as I should have had over the years but I am very proud to represent our iwi here in the House. I am very proud of the settlement that our iwi have managed to negotiate, and I wish you all the best for the future. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002261dfe6a103984a2498cba1e92cf9bc82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261dfe6a103984a2498cba1e92cf9bc82\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a 5-minute call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00221384dcaa8b214517820f60e8c0312432\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221384dcaa8b214517820f60e8c0312432\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. Otir\u0101, e k\u012B ana te k\u014Drero Apa-h\u0101pai-taketake n\u0101na a t\u0101piki te takiritanga o Te Ata, \u0101, tihei mauri ora! N\u014D reira, anei a\u2019au t\u0113tehi uri o Apa-h\u0101pai-taketake kei te mihi atu ki a koutou o Hineuru. E mi\u2019i ana \u2018oki au ki Te Maunga Titiokura, Te Awa M\u014Dhaka, ki ng\u0101 Whare Rongopai me Piriwiritua ki H\u0101roto Marae me k\u012B, ki a koutou katoa ng\u0101 uri o Hineuru, t\u0113nei te mihi ake ki a koutou, nau mai, haere mai ki te Whare nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker of the House, but at the same time the saying goes that Apa-h\u0101pai-taketake rises before the break of dawn, and so behold the breath of life! So here I am, a descendant of Apa-h\u0101pai-taketake, welcoming you, Hineuru, paying a tribute as well to Titiokura mountain, the M\u014Dhaka River, and the meeting house Te Rongopai and dining hall Piriwiritua at the marae of Te H\u0101roto. Let us say to all of you, the descendants of Hineuru, welcome, come hither to this House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EIt is a great pleasure for me to speak at the first reading of the Hineuru Claims Settlement Bill. Hineuru is a descendant of Apa-H\u0101pai-Take-Take, as I am also. I mihi to the people of Hineuru. I have read very carefully, like I do, all historical accounts. This historical account is a story that needed to be told. In this historical account I would summarise the actions of the people of Hineuru as being full of perseverance. We have a saying in Ng\u0101ti Apa\u2014it is taken from the bible\u2014\u012Bnoia, rapuhia [request it, seek it out]. I think that I could easily apply this saying to the people of Hineuru for their perseverance in getting to this stage, the first reading, in the House today. I acknowledge all of the people involved in getting to this stage. It is not an easy thing to negotiate any settlement, and I acknowledge those Hineuru people\u2014the negotiators\u2014for bringing, from my point of view, a settlement that will deliver a vastly better future for the coming generations of Hineuru. So I acknowledge them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe cultural redress aspects of this bill and the settlement deserve some discussion in this House. The very first item within the bill is te kawenata, a partnership agreement between the Crown and Hineuru. I have read through that carefully, and I do not think that I have read or seen in any other settlement a partnership agreement quite like this one. The Crown will have responsibility for and will be held to account in this agreement, and I think that that has taken settlements to another level through this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EWithin this bill, there are also a number of statutory acknowledgments and deeds of recognition. I wanted to speak briefly on the deeds of recognition. They are an instrument that is used when a statutory acknowledgment has been given to a certain piece of land, and then a deed of recognition overlays the statutory acknowledgment in order to give the iwi some responsibility and rights in terms of the management of that land. So it lifts to another level their connection to those particular pieces of land. I like to think of it as: in the absence of being owners of that land, they have rights that are tantamount to being owners but without the responsibility of paying for it, which I think is a good thing. That responsibility should be on the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI also want to mention the commercial redress. As has been pointed out by other speakers, this settlement is, per capita, the largest settlement that has come to this House so far. That needs to be acknowledged purely and simply because it provides a pathway forward for the iwi of Hineuru to address those wrongs of the past and to give opportunities for the future generations, who will be the true beneficiaries of this settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the iwi once more for their tenacity and for their perseverance, and I congratulate each and every one of them. I look forward to this bill progressing through the House to its third reading. It is not an end, the third reading; it is a beginning. N\u014D reira, ki a koutou ng\u0101 uri o Hineuru, t\u0113nei te mihi ake an\u014D ki a koutou, \u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Therefore, to all the descendants of Hineuru, I once again salute you and all of us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022d560037ca01a43cc881bab8f0dd4e89d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d560037ca01a43cc881bab8f0dd4e89d\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great honour to take a short call on this Hineuru Claims Settlement Bill. Before I begin, I would like to apologise just in case my pronunciation is terrible. I am reminded of my maiden speech, when I actually talked about how I arrived in this land in 1988, in a waka. The waka was slightly different from the one that the ancestors arrived in. This waka that I arrived in had wings, and it was slightly faster. I would like to say: ka mihi atu ki a Ng\u0101ti Hineuru. I hope that means that I acknowledge the Hineuru tribe\u2014iwi, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022146ee47e0ae14e4e925e73657b041d56\u0022\u003EHon Te Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Tribal nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213ae000daa9d4c99a6f4a3b561cb6eeb\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. It is a great honour even to take just a short call. I am just so touched that I am actually involved in this debate. I have heard Opposition members and Government members talk about this settlement and what a fantastic opportunity it is, not just because of the great amount of money that we are bestowing upon the Hineuru iwi but also because it is an acknowledgment of the wrong that has actually been done. For a Korean girl who was raised in a country that has a 5,000-year history, which was annexed for 36 years by another country\u2014I will not name which one it was\u2014and has never received an apology, this is a fantastic country that we live in, New Zealand. We actually acknowledge the wrongs of the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI am also a recipient of the bestowment of the M\u0101ori Battalion, or K-force\u2014the M\u0101ori people who served in Korea. They taught the Korean people a song, and I grew up thinking that it was a Korean song. I insisted, stupidly, that it was a Korean song, because I was raised believing that it was a Korean song. Imagine the strange feeling that I got when I arrived in this land in 1988 and listened to people singing \u201CPokare Kare Ana\u201D. I was thinking: \u201COh my goodness! These people in New Zealand have learnt a Korean song.\u201D In Korea, we call it \u201CYeon ga\u201D, which means love song. Imagine that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EYou know how Korean people have learnt that Korea was devastated in 1950 by the Korean War. It was utterly flattened. For 3 years they fought, and it is still in a state of war. But the Korean people are a resilient people. Since 1950 we have\u2014everybody probably has\u2014Samsung telephones or drive a Hyundai or Kia car. We have even funked up the \u201CPokare Kare Ana\u201D song. You know how it goes, really beautifully, \u201CPokare Kare Ana\u201D; well, the Korean one is \u201CYeon ga\u201D, and it is really, really fast: \u201CBi Baram I Chinun Bada\u2026\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAs the recipient of the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222679e596d7a4b7a8eb7d83bc0ce0c30\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It is very entertaining, but we would rather you spoke to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221996e7128dca4ecdb7883afda12429bc\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: I shall wrap it up. It is an honour for me to actually say that I commend this bill. It is an absolute pleasure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4abf811880a4678907b011b6d33faf2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4abf811880a4678907b011b6d33faf2\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. E t\u0101piritia atu ana \u0101ku mihi ki \u0113r\u0101 i waihotia ki mua i t\u014D koutou aroaro. N\u014D reira Hineuru, t\u0113nei te tino mihi rawa atu ki a koutou. Kua riro ki t\u0113nei te whakat\u014Dp\u016Btanga o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o t\u014D m\u0101tau nei t\u012Bma, e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei kaupapa m\u014D te p\u0101nuitanga tuatahi. Ka whakaaro ake, m\u0101ku pea hei whakam\u0101rama \u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki te whakap\u0101h\u0101, \u0101, e tika ana kia kuhua ki roto i ng\u0101 r\u0101rangi k\u014Drero o ng\u0101 pukapuka o t\u0113nei Whare P\u0101remata. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u201C(a) T\u0113nei te Karauna te tuku whakap\u0101ha atu nei ki a Hineuru, ki \u014D koutou t\u012Bpuna, \u014D koutou wh\u0101nau, mokopuna an\u014D hoki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E(b) Kua roa rawa te w\u0101 k\u012Bhai te Karauna i aronui atu ki te mana me te rangatiratanga o Hineuru, k\u012Bhai hoki i tutuki \u0101na here i raro i Te Tiriti o Waitangi me \u014Dna kaupapa matua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E(c) E kore e taea te whakapuaki i te pouri nui o Te Karauna m\u014Dna i tuku ope tau\u0101 ki runga o \u014Cmarunui, i te takiw\u0101 hoki o P\u0113tane, i hinga ai t\u014D koutou rangatira a Te Rangih\u012Broa me \u0113tahi atu, me te t\u016Bkinotanga, te aitua nui hoki i p\u0101 ki a Hineuru n\u0101 runga i te mate o te tangata me te peinga i te whenua tupu. I raru nui an\u014D koutou i te k\u014Dkiritanga a Te Karauna ki t\u014D koutou k\u0101inga, te mauheretanga o \u014D koutou t\u012Bpuna k\u0101ore he whakaw\u0101, k\u0101ore he aha, me te patu i ng\u0101 mauhere kia mate, he mahi weriweri ka titiro mai a te ao, i a Ng\u0101tapa. M\u014D ana mahi, me ng\u0101 pouritanga nui kua utaina mai e te Karauna ki runga i a koutou ko \u014D koutou t\u012Bpuna, t\u0113nei te Karauna te tuku whakap\u0101ha atu nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E(d) E pouri ana te Karauna m\u014D ng\u0101 wharanga nui, wharanga mauroa i ara ake i ana raupatutanga i te w\u0101hi nui o \u014D koutou whenua tuku iho. M\u014D t\u0113nei mahi raupatu, m\u014D ng\u0101 ngahuru tau o te raruraru me te p\u014Dkaikaha, ng\u0101 tau i ngaro ng\u0101 painga m\u014D te iwi o Hineuru i runga i ng\u0101 mahi h\u0113 a te Karauna e p\u0101 ana ki Tarawera me Tataraakina, e whakap\u0101ha ana an\u014D hoki te Karauna. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E(e) Mai o te w\u0101 o te raupatu, i h\u0113 k\u0113 atu te kino m\u014D Hineuru i ng\u0101 mahi hokohoko atu a te Karauna i ng\u0101 whenua i toe mai ki a koutou. T\u0113nei te whakap\u0101ha noa atu a te Karauna m\u014D ana kaupapa matua, m\u014D ana mahi, me ana hapanga i noho whenua kore tonu a Hineuru, i ngahoro ai ng\u0101 pou o t\u014D koutou noho hei iwi, o \u014D koutou p\u016Bmanawa ki te whai i te oranga, ki te tupu hei iwi, ki te kimi oranga \u0101-kikokiko, \u0101-ng\u0101kau, \u0101-wairua an\u014D hoki m\u014D koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E(f) E mihi ana te Karauna ki te pakari me te mana o Hineuru, me t\u014D koutou wh\u0101inga roa i te tika i roto i ng\u0101 whakatipuranga maha. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E(g) R\u0101 roto i t\u0113nei whakatau e mahi nui ana te Karauna ki te utu m\u014D ana hara o tau k\u0113, me te tahuri ki te h\u0101pai i a Hineuru kia h\u012Bkina ai ng\u0101 taumatanga o te whakamau\u0101hara, kia whakawhiwhia an\u014D te iwi ki te toiora, tae atu ki ng\u0101 taonga tuku iho o te iwi. E titiro whakamua ana te Karauna ki t\u014Dna whanaungatanga hou ki a Hineuru, i runga i te whakapono, t\u0113tahi ki t\u0113tahi, te mahi tahi, me te whakamana i te Tiriti o Waitangi me \u014Dna kaupapa nui.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EE tika ana kia kuhua ai \u0113nei k\u014Drero ki roto i ng\u0101 r\u0101rangi k\u014Drero m\u014D ng\u0101 whakatupuranga m\u0101 roto i \u014D koutou tamariki, mokopuna kia rata atu ai r\u0101tau ki te takenga mai o t\u0113nei kaupapa i waenganui i a t\u0101tau, \u0101, e tika ana kia whakaotia. N\u014D reira, i roto i t\u0113r\u0101 paku whakaaro m\u014D t\u0113nei p\u0101nuitanga tuatahi, ka waihotia ki reira. N\u0101, m\u014D \u014D koutou tutukitanga, \u014D koutou whakaaro ki te Karauna ka waihotia \u0113r\u0101 ki reira m\u014D ake, ake tonu atu. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora mai t\u0101tau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Deputy Speaker. I add my acknowledgments to those that were expressed and left before you collectively, and so I really acknowledge you, Hineuru. I have been given the task of consolidating our team\u2019s contributions in terms of the first reading. I thought that perhaps I might explain those sentiments about the apology so that they are recorded as of right in the official record of this House of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u201C(a) The Crown makes this apology to the iwi of Hineuru, to the tipuna, wh\u0101nau, and descendants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E(b) For too long, the Crown has failed to respect the mana and rangatiratanga of Hineuru, and to fulfil its obligations under the Treaty of Waitangi and its principles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E(c) The Crown profoundly regrets its unjust attacks at \u014Cmarunui and near P\u0113tane that took the lives of your rangatira Te Rangih\u012Broa and others, and the devastation and grief Hineuru suffered through loss of life and exile. You suffered further prejudice when the Crown plundered your k\u0101inga, detained your ancestors without trial, and carried out dishonourable summary executions at Ng\u0101tapa. For its actions, and the immense hurt the Crown has caused you and your tipuna, the Crown apologises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E(d) The Crown deeply regrets the enduring prejudice it caused by confiscating so much of your ancestral whenua. For the confiscation, and for the decades of title disruption, dislocation, and lost opportunities Hineuru have experienced as a result of the Crown\u2019s actions in relation to Tarawera and Tataraakina, the Crown also apologises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E(e) Since the confiscation, the Crown compounded the prejudice to Hineuru by purchasing significant parts of your remaining lands. The Crown unreservedly apologises for its policies, acts, and omissions that have left Hineuru virtually landless, and undermined your tribal structures, your capacity for economic and social development, and your physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E(f) The Crown pays tribute to the resilience and the mana of Hineuru, and your long pursuit of justice over many generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E(g) Through this settlement, the Crown seeks to atone for its past wrongs, and to assist Hineuru in lifting the burden of grievance and restoring the well-being of your people and cultural heritage. The Crown looks forward to building a new relationship with Hineuru based on mutual trust, co-operation, and respect for the Treaty of Waitangi and its principles.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIt is appropriate that these sentiments be included in the records for our children and grandchildren so that they are satisfied with the origin of this proposal that is amongst us, and it is fitting for it to be completed. And so in regard to that diminutive thought about this first reading, I will leave it there. As far as your achievements and thoughts through the Crown are concerned, I will leave it there, as it will go on forever. My appreciation to you and to us all collectively; thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022e28d387f2bb34978a063703bb0e5bc7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e28d387f2bb34978a063703bb0e5bc7a\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Whare\u2014and in particular very warm greetings to those from Hineuru who are here this morning for the first reading of the Hineuru Claims Settlement Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBecause of the large amount of business that the House needs to conduct on these occasions of extended sittings it is necessary for those who speak at the latter end of the debate to speak for a very short period of time, but I do want to assure all who are listening that that does not in any way signify a lack of respect or appreciation for the very important work that we are doing today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI, in particular, want to endorse the comments of all my colleagues from across the House who have spoken today in a way that I think has been both enlightening and, as my colleague Jo Hayes said, very, very humbling. We\u2014or at least many of us\u2014have today been taught things we never knew before. They are things that should trouble all of us and should certainly not only weigh heavily on our heart but stiffen our resolve to ensure that we take whatever steps we can to put them right. I am very proud to be part of the modern generation of parliamentarians who have the privilege and the opportunity to do just that, and it is on occasions such as this that I feel particularly proud to be a member of Parliament and accept that responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo could I simply say to the iwi thank you for your generosity of spirit and for the good faith with which you have entered into the negotiations. I want to acknowledge the outstanding work of the Crown negotiators and to say this is very important work that this Parliament acknowledges and I am delighted to see that we will all be united in supporting it. May I wish you all the very best in the future as you at long last see significant grievances at least redressed, no matter how inadequately. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBill referred to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002246b7379e0b494242bc1d5947eb287745\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ruahine Claims Settlement Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c6d5f84a03d48aab2c500c159e55fd0\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00222c1f410be87a47c78b20d07e8b34600a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c1f410be87a47c78b20d07e8b34600a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. E te iwi o Ng\u0101ruahine t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou, kia ora mai t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E[To you the tribe of Ng\u0101ruahine, greetings, salutations, and welcome to you all. I appreciate you greatly, and thank you to us all.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThere is a convention in the House that the Speaker in the Chair is not allowed to make a speech. It will not be lost on my friend John Hooker that I intend to pussyfoot around those rules. Some of us live by the mantra that it is better to ask for forgiveness than for permission. You will not hear me speak for very long about the travesties of the past\u2014Te Ngutu o te Manu\u2014the travesties of the confiscations around our rohe, and you will not hear me acknowledge the leaders of the past or acknowledge the travesties of those confiscations and where they have left you today, or wax lyrical in congratulations to Daisy, to Pita, to John, and to others\u2014the familiar faces of those sitting in the gallery. You will not hear me say any of that, because it is against the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002251a6a350466046dbb93a212c1886d95d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251a6a350466046dbb93a212c1886d95d\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Ng\u0101ruahine Claims Settlement Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee to consider the bill. First and foremost, like you, Mr Deputy Speaker\u2014of course, you did not do it\u2014I want to extend a warm welcome to the people of Ng\u0101ruahine who are here today to witness the first reading of their settlement bill. Nau mai haere mai. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EToday is a day for acknowledging Ng\u0101ruahine t\u016Bpuna, as well as their descendants. It is particularly important to acknowledge those who have been part of the Ng\u0101ruahine journey, working tirelessly over the many years to have those grievances properly addressed. Sadly, many of these people are no longer with us and cannot be part of this important occasion today, but it is important to read their names into Hansard for ever more. I speak of Tohe Pakanga Ngatai, Rawa Tarawanuku, Margaret Kahup\u016Broko Olley, Eric Whakataka Taha, Pue Barry Whakaruru, and John Kata Luke. They unfortunately passed away even before the settlement was realised. I want to read into Hansard the names of Stephen H\u0113nare Toki, Jean Teira Nuku, and Cyril Rangiwaiwaitomo, who have passed on since. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge those who are still with us and who were, and are, absolutely committed to making sure that the Ng\u0101ruahine voice, their concerns, and their interests were heard. I refer here to Matekitawhiti Carr, Hine Toki, Hinewaitou Josie Bingham, and Ronald Boyd Hudson, some of whom are sitting amongst us today. Of course, special acknowledgment goes to that great New Zealander Tihi Anne Daisy Noble, who has driven the Ng\u0101ruahine negotiations from the outset with mana, with class, and with determination, along with the other negotiators. Attending the many Waitangi Tribunal hearings and court sittings in Wellington, in addition to the countless negotiation hui, shows the extraordinary commitment of all these people to the Ng\u0101ruahine kaupapa. This unrelenting dedication is the reason we are here today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge particularly the Office of Treaty Settlements. I want to acknowledge all departments of State for the work that they have done, particularly the Department of Conservation, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, and there are so many others. I want to say something about the chief Crown negotiator. Yesterday I said that after the 2011 election I approached my parliamentary colleague and friend Rick Barker and asked whether he would be prepared to be chief Crown negotiator. He worked very hard on this settlement, and like all settlements, it had a lot of complexity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EYesterday there was some unfortunate criticism of my negotiators by one member of this House, without really understanding the complexities and without really understanding how difficult these negotiations can be. I do not want to belabour the point, but all I want to say for the benefit of the House is that it is so easy to criticise from the sidelines; it is much harder to study a settlement, to understand the complexity, and to understand the historical gravity and the need to put things right. Rick Barker did that very well here indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBut every country has the type of politician who snipes from the sidelines. Take the United States, for example. Just yesterday Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky said of Donald Trump: \u201CWe\u2019ve got an empty suit here, full of bravado but not full of anything really meaningful for the country.\u201D Enough said. I do not want to dwell on that particular MP\u2014until the next debate at least\u2014but I do want to acknowledge Mr Barker and thank him for his wonderful work, not only in this settlement but in plenty of others as well, and I am going to continue using him regardless of the criticism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI now want to highlight some key moments in the history of the relationship between Ng\u0101ruahine and the Crown, which provide the bleak backdrop\u2014and I emphasise the bleak backdrop\u2014to this settlement. In the 1840s and the 1850s Ng\u0101ruahine people engaged in trade with Europeans. They were prosperous. They were successful. During this time Ng\u0101ruahine consistently opposed the sale of their lands to Europeans, and they retained control over their land and resources. What unfolds after that is a truly sorry history of Crown land purchasing that led to war in Taranaki, the devastation of Ng\u0101ruahine settlements and cultivations by Crown forces, the indiscriminate and the unjust confiscation of every acre of the Ng\u0101ruahine rohe in 1865, and the loss of control over the few lands that were returned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBy the late 1870s large numbers of Ng\u0101ruahine people were among the many people from Taranaki and elsewhere who relocated to Parihaka and supported that settlement\u2019s leaders in their movement for independence and peace. Ng\u0101ruahine people were among those who were arrested, transported to the South Island, and imprisoned in harsh conditions for long periods without trial, and were also among those who were displaced from Parihaka when that settlement was invaded and dismantled by the Crown troops in 1881. These events remain among the lowest points in New Zealand\u2019s history, which is why we have been doing so much work in recent times with Parihaka, and that is work that I can talk about on another day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EEarlier this year we were welcomed\u2014I say this to my friend Mr Korako\u2014so kindly by Ng\u0101i Tahu at the beautiful Arahura Marae near Hokitika, and then up the road I was honoured to deliver the Crown\u2019s apology to the people of Ng\u0101ruahine at the very site of a memorial for those of the iwi who were transported to the West Coast. This was at the conclusion of their recent h\u012Bkoi to the South Island to visit places where their t\u016Bpuna were taken from Parihaka and held captive in caves, forced to build stone embankments around Otago Harbour and many of the roads in Dunedin. This was a fitting conclusion to a very emotional and spiritual h\u012Bkoi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI now turn to the settlement itself. Following the signing of the terms of negotiation in October 2010 Ng\u0101ruahine signed an agreement in principle at the end of 2012. The deed of settlement was initialled in June 2014, signed a couple of months later, and now we have the bill before the House. Of course, the members of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee are going to take a good look at it. They will see that key elements of the package include $67.5 million, a right of deferred selection over 10 sites, the vesting of four culturally significant sites, overlay classification over six sites of particular importance, statutory acknowledgments over 51 sites of significance, and deeds of recognition over 23 sites. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThere is so much about this settlement that I could talk about, but it is important to get this bill away to the select committee today. So, in closing, can I simply say that it truly is a privilege to be the steward of this portfolio, the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, and to have negotiated this settlement with this great iwi. It certainly is a privilege to be opening the debate on this very important occasion. It is a day for reflection on what Ng\u0101ruahine have lost, but it is a day of optimism as well\u2014optimism for the future that lies ahead for Ng\u0101ruahine. The bill should proceed without delay to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, and so I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002233cdf5bf282346a2a51605bc024e3a8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233cdf5bf282346a2a51605bc024e3a8f\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te W\u2019are, oti noa, \u201CPiki mai, kake mai, h\u014Dmai te wai ora ki ahau e t\u016B tehu ana te moe o te kuia i te p\u014D, hoi ka raru, ka papaki kau ana ng\u0101 tai ki Te Reinga, ka p\u014D, ka ao, ka awatea, \u0101, tihei mauri ora!\u201D E tuku mi\u2019i atu kia koutou Ng\u0101ruahine, \u0101, ki ng\u0101 hap\u016B K\u0101nihi, Umutahi hap\u016B, \u014Ckahu, Inu\u0101wai hap\u016B, Ng\u0101ti Manuhiakai hap\u016B, Ng\u0101ti T\u016B hap\u016B, Ng\u0101ti Hau\u0101 hap\u016B, Ng\u0101ti Tamah\u016Broa T\u012Btahi hap\u016B. Anei ahau t\u0113tehi uri o Ng\u0101 Wakatauroa tuku mi\u2019i atu ki a koutou, nau mai, haere mai, whakatau mai. Ka mi\u2019i atu an\u014D ki ng\u0101 mate, ng\u0101 mate katoa i runga i a koutou, i a m\u0101tou, i a t\u0101tou katoa. Ka nui te tangi o te ng\u0101kau te wehenga atu \u014D r\u0101tou m\u0101 i t\u012Bmata t\u0113nei kaupapa, n\u014D reira, e \u2019oki, e moe, e moe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker of the House, and so, \u201CCome up, ascend here, give me living, giving waters, for the lady sleeps in eager anticipation, but there was deception as the tides broke at Te Reinga and the night, and, alas, the night set in, then came dawn, and behold the breath of life!\u201D. I welcome you collectively, Ng\u0101ruahine, and the subtribes K\u0101nihi, Umutahi, \u014Ckahu, Inu\u0101wai, Ng\u0101ti Manuhiakai, Ng\u0101ti T\u016B, Ng\u0101ti Hau\u0101, Ng\u0101ti Tamah\u016Broa, and T\u012Btahi. I, a descendant of Ng\u0101 Wakatauroa, stand here to welcome you collectively; come hither, come forth, welcome. I also acknowledge the dead: those upon you, us, and everyone. There is much grief within me to those ones who started this proposal, and so rest, sleep, slumber on.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EIt gives me great pleasure to speak in the first reading of the Ng\u0101ruahine Claims Settlement Bill. Ka t\u0101piri atu taku mihi ki te mihi ka tukuna atu e koe ki te iwi nei [I add my tribute to the one that you accorded this tribe here]. I want to join my acknowledgment to the one that you gave first, Mr Deputy Speaker, because I think it is appropriate, as you are in the Chair, that you ought to have done that. So I acknowledge that you did that, and I join my acknowledgment to yours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThis settlement has been a long time coming, like all settlements that arrive here. I talked about perseverance in the Hineuru Claims Settlement Bill, and I could equally apply that to the Ng\u0101ruahine people\u2014their perseverance in coming through all of the historical issues that have happened in Taranaki wh\u0101nui and, in particular, in this case, to Ng\u0101ruahine; the likes of which are still carried by the people of Ng\u0101ruahine to this day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI have spoken on these settlement bills on previous occasions, and I have talked about historical and intergenerational trauma. If there was a historical account that I have read that describes the historical and intergenerational trauma, then I would point to the historical account that is included in this bill. It is not easy for a generation to carry such trauma and then to address it with the perpetrators of the trauma that has been inflicted upon them. It takes courage to be able to do that, so I acknowledge the whole iwi, and I want to acknowledge, in particular, the negotiators and, as the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations has pointed out, Daisy Noble, who has been absolutely tenacious in getting Ng\u0101ruahine to this point today. I think that she ought to be mentioned for the very fact of carrying the hurt and the trauma of past generations so that it can be addressed appropriately through this settlement. And so I acknowledge that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThis settlement is a significant one. The Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations has outlined all of the parts that are included within this deed of settlement. I want to acknowledge his work in bringing this settlement to the House, and also the Crown negotiators and the officers at the Office of Treaty Settlements. The kaitiaki instrument in particular drew my attention. It talks about the natural resources, which are, of course, very important to Ng\u0101ruahine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI also wanted to spend a bit of time on the financial redress. I believe that the financial redress looks fairly significant, of course, but we all know that it is but a small proportion of what was lost. The total area lost in Taranaki was 1.2 million acres, which includes all of the land of Ng\u0101ruahine. This gives an opportunity for the iwi to move forward, to use that settlement asset to grow the economic base of the iwi, so that the generations of today and the generations to come, which bear the effects of those things that impact the iwi today, will have a base from which they can restore, or begin to restore, their place within, and on, their lands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI think it is important that we acknowledge\u2014and we have heard about this\u2014the generosity of spirit. We have heard of it a number of times during debates on settlements, but when an iwi has lost completely everything\u2014absolutely everything\u2014and then still survives today and finds it within itself to negotiate with the perpetrators of the hurt that has been inflicted upon it, that generosity certainly needs to be acknowledged. The financial redress, as I said, provides a way forward for the iwi. I think that through this financial redress future generations will be in good stead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI have to acknowledge also that through this settlement the iwi of Ng\u0101ruahine will eventually be\u2014and I am sure that they are well on their way to being\u2014full participants in everything that goes on in their rohe. I point to the relationship mechanisms within this Treaty settlement and also to the letters that the Crown will write to ministries in order to encourage those relationships to move forward. I always think that those letters could be a bit more. I think that there could be more obligation on the ministries and departments to ensure that that relationship happens. It is something that I think should be discussed at the select committee, and hopefully we can make sure, through submissions, that those letters are not just pieces of paper, and that when there is engagement between the iwi and those ministries it is at the level where the decisions are made, and not with officers\u2014middle management\u2014of those ministries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, koin\u0101 taku k\u014Drero, \u0101, ka mihi atu an\u014D ahau ki a koutou ng\u0101 uri o Ng\u0101ruahine. Ka nui te mi\u2019i atu ki a koutou, ko te t\u016Bmanako kia \u016Bhia mai ng\u0101 manaakitanga ki runga ki a koutou katoa m\u014D ng\u0101 w\u0101 katoa, \u0101, tihei mauri ora!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[That is my address, and I acknowledge you collectively once again, descendants of Ng\u0101ruahine. I admire you greatly, in the hope that all that generosity will spread over you all the time; so behold the breath of life!]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00228778bce3ac454b22bf498055c0638c70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228778bce3ac454b22bf498055c0638c70\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL (Minister for M\u0101ori Development): \u003C/span\u003E\u201CTitiro, titiro ki Te Maunga T\u012Bt\u014Dhea i runga o Parihaka, Waitot\u014Dro, Ng\u0101ti Moeahu, Ng\u0101ti Haupoto. Ko te takiritanga i te kahu o Wikit\u014Dria kaitoa, kaitoa! Ko Tohu, ko Te Whiti nga manu e rua i patu i te hoariri ki te rangim\u0101rie, ksss au\u0113, ksss aue! Ahakoa te pah\u016B o Tanga, o Parihaka, u\u0113, u\u0113, u\u0113, h\u0101!\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKai ng\u0101 taokete, Te Maunga T\u012Bt\u014Dhea koutou e kawe nei i te raukura, ng\u0101 t\u016Bmanako o te hunga kua ngaro atu i te tirohanga kanohi, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, nau mai, e rarau! Nau mai ki roto i te Whare P\u0101remata n\u0101na koutou i t\u016Bkino i ng\u0101 tau kua hipa ake, i t\u0113nei r\u0101 kua hara mai koutou ki raro i t\u014Dna parirau me ng\u0101 mate huhua kua p\u0101 mai, kua k\u014Drerohia nei e te Minita i t\u0113nei ata. Ka tangi ake, he kitenga kanohi ka hoki ng\u0101 mahara ki te hunga k\u0101ore i konei, \u0113hara i te mea n\u014D roto i a koutou \u0113ngari h\u0101, ka huri tika tonu \u014Dku whakaaro ki a Te Miringa m\u0101, ko r\u0101tou i \u0101ki nei i \u0113nei kaupapa m\u014D Taranaki wh\u0101nui tonu i te w\u0101 i a ia. \u0112ngari, an\u014D koutou i t\u0113nei r\u0101 te hunga ora, e Daisy, ko koe t\u0113r\u0101 e \u0101rahi nei i ng\u0101 kaupapa. Ka tangi ake, ka tangi ake m\u014D ng\u0101 pakeke kua ngaro. Hoi an\u014D, kai konei koutou, kai konei koe kua eke ki roto i te Whare P\u0101remata, haere mai, haere mai, haere mai kei aku rangatira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tau! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI puta i a au t\u0113tahi k\u014Drero i Te Marae o T\u016Brangawaewae i te kotahi marama pea kua hipa, i t\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 hui i whakanuia ko te \u0101huatanga o te kirimana i waenganui i a Waikato-Tainui, me te Karauna. I reira a H\u0113mi Bolger r\u0101ua ko te tangata n\u0101 a Sir Doug Graham. I k\u012B atu au i te marae r\u0101, \u0113, kua \u0101hua raruraru a Te Ururoa ki te noho i T\u016Brangawaewae, i a r\u0101tau e whakanui ana i te kirimana i waenganui i a Tainui me te Karauna i te mea, i ng\u0101 25 tau kua hipa, i t\u0113r\u0101 taha o te taiapa k\u0113 au e porot\u0113hi ana. He p\u0113r\u0101 an\u014D taku aronga ki a koutou i t\u0113nei r\u0101, e kai \u014Dku taokete! I ng\u0101 w\u0101 roa m\u014D ng\u0101 toru tau kua hipa ake, i reira t\u0101tau, \u0113tahi o t\u0101tau, \u0101, tukituki nei te rae i runga o Waitara! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u0100, he aha te kaupapa? Ko te k\u014Dpaki o te Karauna! Ko tana Kiriona, \u0113 k\u012B, \u0113 k\u012B! Ko t\u0101 t\u0101tau i t\u0113r\u0101 r\u0101 ko te k\u012B atu, t\u014D hamuti! Whakahokia atu t\u014D k\u014Dpaki, \u0101, ki tua o t\u0101wauwau! \u0112ngari an\u014D, a, kai konei t\u0101tau, \u0101, ko t\u014Dna whakatinanatanga, \u0101, kua \u0101hua t\u016Breiti te k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 i t\u0113nei w\u0101. N\u014D reira, haere mai r\u0101 i raro i te \u0101huatanga o \u0113nei whakaaro. Ka tangi ake \u0113ngari, ka hari harikoa i te mea, kua eke koutou ki t\u0113nei taumata. N\u014D reira, e tika kia noho au ki roto i Te Reo M\u0101ori \u0113ngari, kua koropup\u016B ake te whakaaro, \u0101, me whakatakoto \u0113tahi paku k\u014Drero i te reo P\u0101keh\u0101 kia m\u0101rama tonu te wh\u0101nuitanga o ng\u0101 mea e whakarongo nei ki \u0113nei k\u014Drero. N\u014D reira kai aku rangatira o te Whare, kai te Kaik\u014Drero o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, me t\u014D kore k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u014D rahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[\u201CLook, look at the Barren Mountain over Parihaka, Wait\u014Dtara River, and the subtribes Ng\u0101ti Moeahu and Ng\u0101ti Haupoto, and the loosening of Victoria\u2019s cape; good job, good job! It was Tohu and Te Whiti, those two birds, who slew the enemy with peace; ksss, oh, the pain, ksss, oh, the pain! Despite the eruption of Tanga and Parihaka, it shook, shook, and shook to no avail; what a delight!\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ETo the in-laws, to Barren Mountain bearers of the feather plume and aspirations of those who are lost from sight, I greet and acknowledge you; welcome, come hither, settle in! Welcome to Parliament House, that which violated you in the years gone by and today, you have come under its wing with your many deceased, who have been mentioned by the Minister this morning. I mourn them, and, after seeing you, memories of those who are no longer here are recalled, even though they are from within you entirely. My thoughts go directly to Miringa and them, the ones who really urged these proposals along for Taranaki at large in his time. As far as you are concerned today, Daisy, you and the ones who are alive are leading the proposals. But I do mourn and grieve for the elders who have passed away. You as a collective, however, are here; you have arrived in the House of Parliament; come hither, welcome, draw closer, and acknowledgments to you, my esteemed elders; salutations, congratulations, and well done to us all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI made a statement at T\u016Brangawaewae Marae about a month ago, at one of the meetings to celebrate the circumstances around the signing of the deed of settlement between Waikato-Tainui and the Crown. Jim Bolger and Sir Doug Graham were there. At that marae I stated that I, Te Ururoa, had become somewhat troubled to remain there at T\u016Brangawaewae while they were celebrating the deed settlement, because 25 years ago I was on that side of the fence protesting instead. My inclination to you, my in-laws, is still similar to what it was then as it is today! In that lengthy period, about 3 years ago, we were there; some of us were there up at Waitara, at loggerheads with each other! And what was the proposal? The fiscal envelope of the Crown! Its billion dollars\u2014well, well! Our response that day was: \u201CYour faeces! Take your envelope away to beyond the wherever!\u201D. That aside, we are all here\u2014its fulfilment? Well, today it is a bit late now to talk about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAnd so welcome here, indeed, under the circumstance of these views. I lament, but at the same time I am very happy because you have reached this pinnacle. It is apt, therefore, for me to have remained speaking in M\u0101ori, but the thoughts well up from within that I should express a few thoughts in English, so that the vast number listening in can have some clarity about these sentiments. And so, esteemed ones of the House and Mr Deputy Speaker, my appreciation to us all, and to you in particular, Mr Deputy Speaker of the House, for not making any reference to how well you have been put together; thank you.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIt gives me great pleasure to stand in front of Ng\u0101ruahine today. I say that because it was about 30 years ago that I arrived with my wh\u0101nau back in Taranaki. My wife is from Taranaki and became involved in many of the things. As I said earlier, I was on T\u016Brangawaewae Marae a couple of months ago, actually, celebrating 25 years, I think it was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224eeb7463ac944f0bab55453c6c4a11fb\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: 20.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8ab015de73546fd84e29df22d279459\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: Twenty\u201420 years since the signing of the Waikato-Tainui agreement, and there was James Bolger and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220313b72a37e9445e85804ac6489dc86f\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Doug Graham.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293d79e3f335941d69c4b927f72fb68f3\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: Sir Doug Graham. Sir Doug Graham referred to a protest that happened to be outside of T\u016Brangawaewae at the time, and I said: \u201CWell, Sir Doug, you were on this side; I was actually on the outside protesting about that fiscal envelope that was touted around by the National Party at the time.\u201D It brings back memories because for many of the people I see up here it is exactly the same. It was about 30 years ago when I went to Taranaki and\u2014I will admit to it\u2014we sort of led a few protests now and again, caused a bit of havoc now and again, but had some fun.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227c54aca490843d99aff773636349265\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: Led by your heart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e51f6b8e99234eafbdeba041e98a5da0\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! It was very much led by the heart, and I just think about those times and the many people, because I did attend many of the first discussions. We are talking about 30 years ago\u2014holy cow; 30 years ago. Here we are 30 years down the track and not everybody is through the gate yet, but some are. I remember the Waitangi Tribunal hearings, where absolutely everybody said: \u201CNo way. Do away with that blimmin $1 billion. You\u2019re not going to buy us off for that amount of money.\u201D Well, history is history. We know what has happened since then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EBut I think about many of those who have passed on, and the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations mentioned some of them, but I think very much around Te Miringa Hohaia, whom you may remember, but one of the korero that came out was Taranaki, kia kotahi te k\u014Drero [Taranaki, be of one voice]. We know what has happened is that people have split off, and that is fine. But I think about n\u0101 koutou who have come today, because it has been a long journey. So to Daisy, I congratulate you and you wh\u0101nau and your team. W\u012Bremu, ki a koe an\u014D hoki i kite au i t\u014D ingoa i runga i ng\u0101 r\u0101rangi ingoa [to you too, W\u012Bremu; I noted your name on the list of names]. So congratulations to you for being here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EYou may not have been here earlier, but we made mention\u2014a couple of the members have talked about a few things this morning that I think are important to put on the radar. One of our members, the Green member Catherine Delahunty, in fact, talked about the fact that although we celebrate so much the various people in our history\u2014people like Paris and Grey and Whitmore are celebrated in history; I know they are celebrated, because they are street names in New Plymouth, for goodness sake\u2014but ko te hunga M\u0101ori, \u0101, k\u0101ore i kitea [as for the M\u0101ori people, they were not sighted]. And I know that one of those protests was to get rid of those posts, but I did not\u2014I did not touch those ones. It was other ones\u2014no, no it was not. So I think that is an important point that those names have huge ramifications for our people, because they are symbols of a history that many people do not talk about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI just want to raise a second issue that others have spoken about, which is that the history of people like the people of Taranaki\u2014I lived there for a couple of years, and I have got to say there are a few people who I know feel so deeply and strongly about confiscation. These people are one of them. T\u016Bhoe is another; Tainui is another. There are others, obviously. But, you know, because they live on that same land that was confiscated from them\u2014and, as a teacher of Treaty education, I have seen the books that show the confiscation line. For somebody who came out of a Parliament of New Zealand to draw down the page one squiggle and draw to the right and say \u201CAll of that is now confiscated.\u201D, you know, that is a part of our history that not many people talk about. Here we have an opportunity to put that sort of stuff in front of our Parliament, and I think we should take that opportunity all of the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI take the point of the \u201CNg\u0101ti Paraone\u201D tribe. He said: \u201CYou know, maybe these debates should be in the afternoon so that they open up for the general public.\u201D It is all very well for us sitting here and for those watching on TV, but actually the history that is spoken about in these Treaty debates is hugely important. We never get it out\u2014we have got 10 minutes to put everything out there. We never do it justice, but the mere fact of some of the key points that all of us make, for the purposes of being united about giving opportunities for people to move forward, I think, should be given consideration. Maybe we will take that up in the Business Committee of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThese are the thoughts that sort of come to mind, and the hope is, of course, that although the journey is not over, because there are a couple of stages\u2014I was looking for one certain man from Ng\u0101ti T\u016B to come to the door, but I cannot see him here today. So I am suspecting that he will want to have an audience with me and to have a talk. I gave a commitment to that Ng\u0101ti T\u016B kaum\u0101tua that I would come up and see him. It may be a little bit later. I may have a phone message on my phone, which I will get to this afternoon, and we may have a talk on Facebook. But these are the things that we go through. Some of our people say \u201CLet\u2019s go.\u201D, some of our people have certain issues that they still want resolved, and some of our people are so passionate\u2014and there is nothing wrong with passion. There is nothing wrong with passion, especially if it is in the best interests of our people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EE hoa m\u0101, koinei te mihi o te ng\u0101kau ki a koutou i t\u0113nei rangi, kua eke ki t\u0113nei taumata! \u0112 harikoa ana ko koutou t\u0113nei kua noho nei hei hoa haere m\u014D ng\u0101 iwi kua tae k\u0113 mai ki roto i te Whare P\u0101remata. Taihoa ake nei ka eke Te Komiti Whiriwhiri Take M\u0101ori ki runga i a koutou ki reira wetewete ai, te tikanga ia i mua o te paunga o t\u0113nei tau. Ko wai ka m\u014Dhio, ka hoki mai koutou? \u0100, koir\u0101 te r\u0101 waiata, te w\u0101 ngahau, te w\u0101 e tutuki ai te kaupapa, e taea ai t\u014D koutou haere i runga i te huarahi whakarite mai ai. N\u014D reira kai aku rangatira, e ng\u0101 taokete, kai ng\u0101 uri o ng\u0101 manu e rua, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tau katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Colleagues, I really acknowledge you from the heart today; you have reached the pinnacle. I am absolutely thrilled that you remain here as ones for tribes arriving here in the House as ones to engage with. The M\u0101ori Affairs Committee will shortly prevail upon you to critically analyse with you there, and hopefully before the end of this year. Who knows when you will be back? And that will be the day to sing, entertain\u2014and when the proposal is settled and you go off on your way to make plans. And so, my esteemed colleagues, in-laws, and descendants of those two birds, I acknowledge, commend, and congratulate you and us all collectively; thank you.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022f42c31a2bb61405e8b282f06088b13f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f42c31a2bb61405e8b282f06088b13f8\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. M\u0101ku e whaiwhai ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kua k\u014Drerohia i te ata nei, \u0101, n\u014D reira ki a koutou Ng\u0101ruahine, kei te mihi maioha ki a koutou. E hoki ng\u0101 mahara i t\u0113nei w\u0101 ki a r\u0101tou katoa, ka whakaaro ake ki ng\u0101 m\u0101tua t\u016Bpuna me ng\u0101 kupu k\u014Drero i waihotia ki ng\u0101 whakatupuranga hei kawe i t\u0113nei kaupapa te toimahatanga o te raupatu, me te hiahia kia whai oranga i roto i ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga m\u014D ng\u0101 whakatupuranga. N\u014D reira, ki t\u0113r\u0101 k\u012Bwai o te kete nei e Tihi, e mihi atu ana ki a koutou katoa, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. N\u0101ku te waimaria kia tuitui i \u0113nei k\u014Drero ki \u0113r\u0101 i waihotia i roto i Te Whare nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will follow up on the contributions expressed this morning, so an affectionate greeting to you collectively, Ng\u0101ruahine. At this moment my thoughts go back to all of the departed, and I reflect on the words uttered by the ancestral forefathers, which they left behind to the generations, about this matter of extreme depression relating to confiscation, which was for them to bear, with a desire that benefits accrue from within the circumstances for generations. Therefore, on the other handle of this basket, Tihi, I acknowledge you all; greetings, well done, and congratulations. It is my good fortune that I am able to stitch these comments to those that were left in this House.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIt gives me some pleasure to be able to contribute to this particular Treaty settlement. As I said in my opening mihi, you cannot help but be reminded of some of the historical facts of the country and locate yourself in some small way to some common interest. When I read through the historical accounts for Ng\u0101ruahine and the impact of confiscation in the area, there was so much that was similar to the experience in Waikato\u20141.2 million acres were confiscated in Taranaki, which is the same amount as in Waikato. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIn terms of the inability of the Compensation Court to adequately address the issues, because those who had fought hard to hold on to their lands were classed as rebels, and in terms of the dislocation that people had as a result of raupatu of their land\u2014how that turned relationships around, often, within hap\u016B and within whanau, those who fought with the Crown and those who remained loyal to the aspirations of their people\u2014all of this kind of gets churned up as a result of combing through the historical facts and the events that occurred. I grew up as a child who heard only stories of people who had remembered their t\u016Bpuna who had fought during particular times. But can I say this, as a child of a raupatu area, he rongo\u0101 i roto i te mamae [there is a medicine in the pain], because we were very well assured that despite the burden of obligation that the generation above me\u2014my parents\u2019 generation, my father\u2019s generation\u2014had to address the issue of raupatu, it was so that the next generation had the ability to look forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIn some small way the settlement process enables that to happen. It is not a complete redressing of all those wrongs, but it is a window and a door that you can choose to walk through so that things can be better for the next generation. It is so as not to forget the past, but to be able to walk confidently into the future and say: \u201CThis is who our ancestors were and what they believed in. This is who we are now. This is how we choose to be going forward into the future.\u201D For all that, I acknowledge Ng\u0101ruahine. I acknowledge everything that is in this particular settlement and what you have tried to achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI had a look at some of the aspects of this settlement. Can I say that at the select committee level I am particularly interested in the local government level, the instruments that enable your participation in the planning and regulation aspects of what happens within your particular region. I will take a particular interest in that because I know that so much of what can happen going forward into the future will require your own determination of your development aspirations and being able to locate that within your own area, working with local government, working with business, and working with all those groups you have to work with to give full effect to what you want to do. I also note that there are relationship accords with key Government agencies. We have just had a debate yesterday in the House with the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations noting the Post Settlement Commitments Unit and how that unit can be a really key part of ensuring that these accords are monitored and evaluated and are operating in the way that the settlement intends it to operate, because if it falls short of that, it falls short of your aspirations contained in the settlement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAlthough it may not, on the surface, be appropriate for certain matters to be relitigated, Minister, I anticipate that even though the Wai 552 issue has gone to the High Court and has had a determination, it may well come back to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee through a submission. Often I have noticed, through the Treaty settlement process, that people use the select committee as a way to be able to tell their story and have it recorded and heard in some way, shape, or form. The select committee gives a lot of respect to anybody who presents submissions to us in earnest, in order to try to understand the nature of their concerns. We are somewhat constrained in being able to address this, because once it gets to the settlement phase and the legislative phase our strongest role is to ensure that the deed reflects what is contained in the legislative mechanisms, and we can kind of really scrutinise some of that aspect. But to revisit matters that have already been determined elsewhere, we are a little bit constrained in that respect. I do want to mention that because I anticipate that that will be an issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI also note the matters with regard to the conservation estate. You know, the conservation legislation is still, in itself, one of those Acts of law that have the strongest references to giving effect to the Treaty of Waitangi. So the Treaty settlement process has enabled us to really have a high level of expectation on these accords and these instruments through the conservation estate, to be able to make sure that they are working to their full extent as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EDo you know what? Over time I have considered in this House\u2014and I have been here as long as the Waikato raupatu settlement, 20 years next year\u2014that the conservation lands might be the last bastion of New Zealand lands solely held for our people in the public estate, and M\u0101ori are inserting themselves right in there, saying: \u201CWe\u2019re going to partner how these lands are going to be managed, for the benefit of all New Zealanders.\u201D That can only be good, because more and more we are seeing so much of the New Zealand estate sold elsewhere out of our hands, and the next generation is quite fearful about that. So New Zealanders owe a huge debt of gratitude to iwi who, through their good nature, have said: \u201CWe can do this with the Crown for the benefit of all New Zealanders.\u201D It gives me great heart, the T\u016Bhoe settlement with Te Urewera. That will radically, I think, transform the way in which people will look at co-management and co-governance of a beautiful estate like that, as does the Ng\u0101ruahine settlement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThere is so much more to this Treaty settlement that, again, as the Minister himself said, there is not enough time in 10 minutes to be able to do it adequate justice. But you can rest assured, Ng\u0101ruahine, that the diligence of our select committee chair and his good nature enable us to investigate any matter that we require\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d702706018c494ba7a4ecbcdbbf1a25\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: And members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf533b169cba4beca0e345c10ea0ffe5\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and members; that is right, the member from New Zealand First\u2014and to investigate those matters that are really important, to give you an assurance that we are doing the best job we can do to steward through what has been a huge and long effort of a number of people. But, most important, the total sum of that effort is courage\u2014courage and conviction. N\u014D reira, i roto i \u0113r\u0101 kupu iti, ka waihotia i roto i \u0113nei pito k\u014Drero m\u0101 koutou hei hari, hei whakahoki ki te k\u0101inga, n\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[So in those brief words, I leave these brief statements for you to enjoy and take home; so acknowledgments to you collectively and to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5be29e754ab4656b0e1aa74118a2f33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5be29e754ab4656b0e1aa74118a2f33\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Mana Whakaw\u0101, \u0101, \u201CKo te hau mua, ko te hau muri, ko Te Hau Tamawahine, ko Te Hau Tamat\u0101ne, e t\u016B mai r\u0101 Te Tokotoko a T\u0101ne-nui-a-raki, e tut\u016B mautia whakamaua ka t\u012Bna, t\u012Bna, haumi e, hui e, t\u0101hiki e!\u201D \u0100, t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koutou ng\u0101 p\u014Dua o Waitaka o t\u014D t\u0101tou matua tipuna. Ng\u0101ruhine ka mihi, Taranaki Mauka ka mihi, n\u014D reira e ng\u0101 manuhiri o te Whare P\u0101remata nau mai, haere mai, piki mai, kake mai, h\u014Dmai te wairua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. And so: \u201CIt is the winds to fore and aft, those of Tamawahine and Tamat\u0101ne, and yonder stands the walking stick of T\u0101ne-nui-a-raki, hold fast to it securely; join, gather, and entwine; it is done!\u201D And so acknowledgments to you, the aged from Kaik\u014Dura to Waitaki; I salute you. To you, Ng\u0101ruahine and Taranaki Mountain, visitors of Parliament House, I therefore bid you welcome; draw hither, mount, and climb aboard, give me the spirit.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI want first to acknowledge the people of Ng\u0101ruahine who are here today and those who could not be but may be watching or listening to this, which is a momentous occasion for the people. I am Ng\u0101i Tahu, and I know the history of these people. I come from R\u0101paki o Te Rakiwhakaputa and I also come from K\u0101ti Waewae Arahura o te Whare T\u016Bhuru. As children we were told these were the stories of these people, these prisoners, who came to our marae, and who actually, at R\u0101paki, they were interned on \u014Ctamahua, and a lot of them perished. My t\u012Bpuna brought them from \u014Ctamahua te R\u0101paki. And then those who were taken to the Tai Poutini were also interned where they suffered and died. So I want to acknowledge this incredible people and what they have gone through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThe history here of Ng\u0101ruahine is one of the great ironies of the New Zealand Wars. Despite the fact that it was the Crown that violated the recently signed Treaty of Waitangi, it was the iwi who were branded as rebels both by the Government of the day and by many subsequent historical accounts. Ng\u0101ruahine was one of these iwi. This was a prosperous and successful iwi that had been trading peacefully with Europeans, but for many years they opposed the sale of their lands to Europeans, and that was their right. When the end of Ng\u0101ruahine\u2019s success as a prosperous and peaceful iwi came, it was not to protect their own lands but that of neighbouring iwi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EIt should be a mark of pride to the people of Ng\u0101ruahine that their ancestors put at risk their financial prosperity to go to the aid of others. When the Crown declared war on North Taranaki iwi, who were resisting forced sales of land, some Ng\u0101ruahine entered the war to support their neighbours. When the Crown confiscated 1.2 million acres of Taranaki land, it included all of the land belonging to Ng\u0101ruahine. Crown forces then entered the Ng\u0101ruahine rohe, destroyed villages, stores, and sources of food, and took a lot of Ng\u0101ruahine as prisoners. Eventually small percentages of land were nominally returned, but even then there was uncertainty about the control the iwi had over its land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EAs I said before, many displaced Ng\u0101ruahine relocated to Parihaka and joined the peace movement there, only to be arrested and transported to jails in Te Wai Pounamu. It was highly appropriate that the apology for the Crown\u2019s wrongs committed against Ng\u0101ruahine should be delivered on the Tai Poutini at Hokitika earlier this year, at the site where many Ng\u0101ruahine ancestors were jailed. Over the years since these breaches of the Treaty took place, Ng\u0101ruahine has been forced to suffer the injustices of so-called redress through the wholly inadequate west coast commissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThe Taranaki Maori Claims Settlement Act of 1944 claimed to provide a full settlement of claims, with no evidence that Ng\u0101ruahine had agreed to the settlement. What we have here today is a full and final settlement that has been agreed between the Crown and Ng\u0101ruahine. It acknowledges the wrongs that the Crown perpetrated against the iwi and offers an unreserved apology. What it does not, and, indeed, cannot, do is fully compensate Ng\u0101ruahine for what the Crown stole from them. Instead, the commercial redress of $67.7 million provides a way for Ng\u0101ruahine to begin developing an economic base for their future and for these tamariki who are here today, and for their tamariki after them. The iwi\u2019s relationship with their lands is also recognised through various means such as deferred selection, vesting of culturally significant sites, statutory acknowledgments, and deeds of recognition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI want to reiterate the Minister\u2019s acknowledgment of Ng\u0101ruahine\u2019s generosity in accepting the settlement. I want to also acknowledge the work of the many people who have brought the iwi to this point. These include the t\u016Bpuna who first began seeking redress for the Crown\u2019s breaches of the Treaty over a hundred years ago. There are also many whom the Minister has already acknowledged by name\u2014the two Ministers, actually\u2014who have worked on this current settlement. I acknowledge those who have passed on, those who could not be here today, and those who are here to see the first stage of their settlement process through this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThis bill will now move on to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, which I am honoured to chair. I look forward to considering this bill in detail. I look forward to welcoming those Ng\u0101ruahine people and others who wish to make submissions on this bill. I want to acknowledge the work of Minister Finlayson as our Treaty settlements Minister. I also want to acknowledge the tautoko from the Minister of everything else M\u0101ori\u2014Te Ururoa Flavell, my colleague from \u201CT\u012Bpene Kura\u201D. Finally, to my colleagues the members of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u2014we try to park our political affiliations at the door and then we enter that room, and then we try to do things that are in the best interests of our people. N\u014D reira, Ng\u0101ruahine, ka nuinui te mihi, te aroha, e mihi, e mihi, e mihi atu ana ki a koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[And so huge greetings and empathy to you, Ng\u0101ruahine; I acknowledge, salute, and congratulate you all.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI would like, without any reservation indeed, to commend this bill to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u00227a36b206156a4e6cad44a0e329bacabc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a36b206156a4e6cad44a0e329bacabc\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare t\u0113n\u0101 koe, tuarua, ki ng\u0101 mema \u014D t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa, tuatoru, ka mihi atu ki a Ng\u0101ruahine me ng\u0101 hap\u016B katoa, ka mihi aroha ki a koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker of the House; secondly, acknowledgments to all members; and, thirdly, I welcome you, Ng\u0101ruahine, and all the subtribes.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ELast year John Key responded to the Waitangi Tribunal claim on Te Paparahi o Te Raki by saying that New Zealand was settled \u201Cpeacefully\u201D\u2014that was the word he used. And he went on to explain that M\u0101ori would have been grateful for the injection of capital that early P\u0101k\u0113ha brought with them when they settled Aotearoa New Zealand\u2014M\u0101ori would have been grateful for the capital! The history of Ng\u0101ruahine puts John Key back in his place\u2014someone who is, sadly, ignorant of his own history, of his own country, and of the efforts of his own Government to respond to that history with some restitution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis morning I want to set out some of that history, as John Key\u2019s own Government has described it in its own legislation before us today, and to suggest that perhaps he might want to reflect on both the inaccuracy and the offensiveness of his earlier comments. Before 1860 Ng\u0101ruahine were prosperous and economically successful and retained ownership of their lands and resources after consistently opposing the sale of land in their rohe to Europeans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn the late 1850s some Ng\u0101ruahine provided assistance to northern Taranaki iwi who were also resisting Crown efforts to acquire land. The Crown declared some M\u0101ori who were preventing the surveys elsewhere in Taranaki to be in rebellion and commenced hostilities against them. Some Ng\u0101ruahine entered the war on the side of the non-sellers. Following the occupation of the Tataraimaka Block by Crown troops, conflict in Taranaki resumed in 1863, and Ng\u0101ruahine people again travelled north to engage with Crown forces. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn 1865 the Crown proclaimed 1.2 million acres of Taranaki land confiscated, including all of the Ng\u0101ruahine rohe. The confiscations were indiscriminate, depriving both \u201Cloyal\u201D and \u201Crebel\u201D M\u0101ori of their lands. The war continued, and in early 1866 Crown forces entered the Ng\u0101ruahine rohe and used scorched earth tactics, which devastated several Ng\u0101ruahine villages, along with associated food stores, livestock, and crops. As a result of the Crown\u2019s military campaigns, Ng\u0101ruahine people were forced to abandon their former homes and food-gathering sites, suffering severe hardship. Some Ng\u0101ruahine people were taken prisoner during the war, and a number lost their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe process that was established to compensate \u201Cloyal\u201D M\u0101ori for the confiscation of their land began in the 1860s, before the fighting had come to an end in South Taranaki, and this made it very difficult for Ng\u0101ruahine people to participate in the hearings for that compensation. By 1880 none of the compensation court awards to Ng\u0101ruahine had been implemented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ESo, the settlement legislation says, the Crown acknowledges that the cumulative effect of the Crown\u2019s actions in purchasing land in Taranaki created tensions that led to the outbreak of war; that it conducted a bush scouring campaign and used scorched earth tactics in southern Taranaki to reduce the ability of M\u0101ori, including Ng\u0101ruahine, to fight; that these campaigns resulted in the devastation of a number of important Ng\u0101ruahine k\u0101inga, including M\u0101whitiwhiti and Ahipaipa, and forced Ng\u0101ruahine to flee their settlements, causing severe hardship for them; that Ng\u0101ruahine suffered loss of life during the Taranaki wars; and that the Taranaki wars constituted an injustice. It does not sound like peaceful settlement to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe settlement bill goes on to describe that in the early 1870s many Ng\u0101ruahine returned to their lands on the Waimate plains. Through the 1870s the Crown attempted to secure nominally confiscated Ng\u0101ruahine land for European settlement by making formal and informal payments to M\u0101ori and by promising to provide reserves and protect significant Ng\u0101ruahine sites. These promises were not fulfilled. By the late 1870s many Ng\u0101ruahine people were uncertain about the status of their lands. By this time many Ng\u0101ruahine had relocated to Parihaka in central Taranaki, and were supporting its leaders Te Whiti and Tohu K\u0101kahi and their movement for M\u0101ori peace and independence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Crown acknowledges that Ng\u0101ruahine provided material support to the Parihaka community and that large numbers of Ng\u0101ruahine people were residing at Parihaka when Crown forces invaded the settlement in 1881. It inflicted serious damage on the prosperous M\u0101ori village of Parihaka and the people residing there, forcibly dispersing many of the inhabitants, and assaulted the human rights of the people. These actions caused great distress and were a complete denial of the M\u0101ori right to develop and sustain autonomous communities in a peaceful manner, and its treatment of Ng\u0101ruahine people at Parihaka was unconscionable and a breach of the Treaty of Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Crown also goes on to acknowledge that it detained members of Ng\u0101ruahine and other M\u0101ori of Taranaki for their participation in the peaceful resistance campaigns initiated at Parihaka, that legislation was enacted that suspended the ordinary course of law, and that as a result most prisoners, including many Ng\u0101ruahine people, were detained without trial. The detention of those prisoners without trial for an unreasonably lengthy period assumed the character of indefinite detention, and the imprisonment of Ng\u0101ruahine and other M\u0101ori of Taranaki in South Island gaols for political reasons inflicted unwarranted hardships on them and their wh\u0101nau. The treatment, the Crown acknowledges, of these political prisoners was wrongful, a breach of natural justice, and deprived them of their basic human rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThere is much more of this history\u2014this demonstrable, proven history\u2014in the settlement legislation. I would urge all New Zealanders to take the opportunity, while this bill and other settlement bills are going through the House, to look at those histories, to learn what those histories are, especially in their own areas, and to understand what happened in their own country, so that we may learn from those lessons, understand where we come from, and present a much brighter vision for how we might proceed in the future. The history set out in the Ng\u0101ruahine legislation shows just the first decade after Te Tiriti o Waitangi was signed, and it is a history of violence, racism, and theft, all of which characterise the colonisation process. It was not peaceful; it was not about fair exchange. It was about greed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ETreaty settlements have many problems in the Green Party\u2019s view, but one of the things they get right is the setting out of our collective history. We need to make more of these accounts\u2014to understand them, to learn them, and to learn lessons from them. I want to wish Ng\u0101ruahine all the very best for the future of their settlement. I look forward to talking with them more about this in the select committee. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffacb06c3c634c9883279fb29ce95bfc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffacb06c3c634c9883279fb29ce95bfc\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. \u0100, tiheiwa mauri ora, tuku mauri ora ki te wheiao, ki te ao m\u0101rama! Ng\u0101ruahine, nau mai haere mai. T\u016B w\u0101hi poto t\u0113nei ki te tautoko i ng\u0101 mihi i mihingia e aku tu\u0101kana i whakatau i a koutou kua tae mai nei i runga i te kaupapa i karangahia t\u0101tou i te r\u0101 nei. Kei te tautoko hoki i ng\u0101 mihi ki t\u0113n\u0101 o ng\u0101 whanaunga karanga maha n\u0101 r\u0101tou i \u2018hakat\u012Bmata mai t\u0113nei kaupapa, ka harekau k\u0113 kei waenganui i a t\u0101tou. Ahakoa horekau i waenganui i a t\u0101tou \u0101-tinana \u0113ngari, m\u014Dhio ana au kei konei r\u0101tou a-wairua, n\u0101 reira, e tika ana kia mihi tonu ki a r\u0101tou. N\u0101 reira, kua ea te w\u0101hi m\u0101 r\u0101tou, ka hoki mai ki a t\u0101tou te hunga ora, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EKei te tautoko m\u0101tou o Aotearoa Tuatahi i te pire nei ahakoa, e m\u014Dhio ana au e horekau e tino tat\u016B, e tino tau k\u0113 t\u0101 koutou ker\u0113me. Tika ana te k\u014Drero a te Minita ahakoa me p\u0113hea t\u014D r\u0101tou whakaaro, ka horekau k\u0113 e tino tau \u0113ngari, ko te mea nui i t\u0113nei w\u0101 i raro i te kirimana i hainatia i a koutou i waenganui i te Karauna, kua tau k\u0113. \u0112ngari, ka nui taku mihi ki a koutou, t\u0101 koutou manaakitanga \u0113hara ki te Karauna anahe \u0113ngari, ki te iwi wh\u0101nui o Te Motu nei, n\u0101 reira t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI mea atu au ki w\u0101 t\u0101tou whanaunga mai i Hineuru i te ata nei, \u0101hua p\u016Bhaehae ana au ki a r\u0101tou n\u0101 te mea, kua tau k\u0113 te whakaaro o Te Karauna, he iwi k\u0113 r\u0101tou. Horekau i h\u0113 ki t\u0113n\u0101! P\u0113n\u0101 i a koutou e t\u016B i te r\u0101 nei hei iwi! Horekau ahau nei e raru ki t\u0113n\u0101! \u0112ngari, i roto i a m\u0101tou o Ng\u0101ti Hine, t\u014Dku wh\u0101nau anahe tata k\u0113 10,000 ng\u0101 tangata \u0113ngari, k\u012Bhai te Karauna i \u2019hakaae i a m\u0101tou, \u0113, t\u016B hei iwi. Kia ahatia? \u0112ngari te mea nui i raro i te kaupapa o te pire nei, pai k\u0113 ki a koutou i te Whare nei. N\u0101 reira, ng\u0101 mihi hoki!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. So \u201CBehold the breath of life! I give life to the natural and the enlightened world!\u201D Welcome, come hither, Ng\u0101ruahine. I stand briefly in support of the tributes of welcome expressed by my elder colleagues to you collectively who arrived because of the call of the proposal that brought us all together here today. I also endorse the tributes to those relatives of many callings who started this proposal and are no longer amongst us. Even though they are no longer amongst us physically, I am cognisant of the fact that they are here spiritually, so it is apt that we continue to acknowledge them. Therefore the part for them has been satisfied, and so we come back to us the living; greetings, salutations, and acknowledgments to you collectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EWe of New Zealand First support this bill, even though I know that your claim has not really been settled properly. What the Minister has said is correct; regardless of what their thoughts are, it will never really be settled, but the main thing at this point in time is, under the mandate of agreement that you collectively signed amongst the Crown, it has been settled already. But I do appreciate you greatly for your hospitality, not just with the Crown alone but with the public of this land; so well done, wonderful, and congratulations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI said to our relatives from Hineuru this morning that I was somewhat envious of them because the Crown had already made up their mind that they were already a tribe. Nothing at all wrong with that. It is much like your standing today as a tribe! Absolutely no problems at all with that. I do not have a problem with that! But within us in Ng\u0101ti Hine, in my family alone, there are nearly 10,000 people, but the Crown will not agree that we stand as a tribe! So what? But the important thing is, under what is being proposed by this bill, it is better instead for you really in this House, and so congratulations as well.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI just want to say that we certainly support the bill going to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. Like all other settlements, there will be other people within the tribe and outside of the tribe who will have some reservations, a contrary view perhaps, about this settlement. I think that the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee process allows the opportunity for those people to come and air their views. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe bill provides that Ng\u0101ruahine may nominate members to the Taranaki Regional Council\u2019s standing committee. On that particular issue I must say that I know that there are people out there who oppose this view. I have no problem with them having a different view. In fact, this is one of the good things about this whole process. The actual history is recorded, so that if people have any doubts as to the merits of iwi claims, then it is documented there. It is documented in a way that is acceptable to the Crown as well. The fact that the Crown has tendered its apology to Ng\u0101ruahine is testament to its acceptance of the history that has been recorded. I want to have that noted in the Hansard. \u0100e, n\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 pea ka rongo i a m\u0101tou mai ng\u0101 hunga i tautoko, \u2018hakah\u0113ngia te kaupapa i roto i te pire i mau mai i mua o te aroaro o Te Komiti m\u014D ng\u0101 Take M\u0101ori. T\u0113n\u0101 pea kei te m\u014Dhio mai i a m\u0101tou, he aha te tino ngako \u014D \u014D r\u0101tou whakaaro.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E[Yes, and they might hear about us through those who agree to or oppose the proposal in this bill before the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. Perhaps they might know about us in respect of what is the real substance inside their minds.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EAs a previous speaker alluded to, there is some concern about Wai 522, the \u0100raukuku hap\u016B claim. Again, I think that, through the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee process, that will certainly be a point of discussion, and it will give the committee some clarification as to what is the actual situation. It is important that this legislation actually reflects what is in the deed of settlement. We will certainly have that confirmed again in the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThis whole process of Treaty settlements does provide an opportunity for this country to have recorded the actual history of what happened to M\u0101ori when the European came to this country. Today we are discussing a settlement bill that concerns a tribe in the Taranaki area. I can remember when I sat on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee to look at the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga claim. I must say that I thought that the quantum was very small given the history and the impact that the arrival of the Crown had on that part of our country. Perhaps it could be argued that the quantum for this one could be similar, in that it is not big enough considering the course of history that impacted on this iwi. However, we will certainly hear more about that during the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee deliberations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI just want to conclude by saying that we do not have any concerns about the quality of the negotiators. We do have some concern that the Crown negotiators get compensated very well, but I wonder whether or not the M\u0101ori negotiators got something similar. I would suggest not. Really, if there is any criticism it is in that respect. I just want it on the record, Minister, that it is not against the individuals, but against the unfairness, I would suggest. However, having said that, I just want to conclude by again commending the bill to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u00220d6f41543a9b4fa4a463cda54d3934d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d6f41543a9b4fa4a463cda54d3934d1\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E E te Mana Whakaw\u0101, kia ora. E te iwi o Ng\u0101ruahine ka nui te mihi atu ki a koutou katoa, nau mai, haere mai i t\u0113nei r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and a huge appreciation to you all, the tribe of Ng\u0101ruahine; welcome, come hither today.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI stand very humbled again. Each time I stand for these claims settlement bills, I am very humbled to speak in support of them. I stand because a little while ago I watched on television the h\u012Bkoi that Taranaki iwi and members of Ng\u0101ruahine made down to the South Island, following the tracks of those who were imprisoned wrongly over the confiscation of land in Taranaki, out at Parihaka. My heart sobbed for all of you. I was in Dunedin in 2011 and I went and visited those caves. I can almost tell you that I could feel the mamae and the tears that were flowing through the whole process that you have endured over time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EToday is a special day for all of you, and it is also a very special day for the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. We are humbled to be able to take your bill to the select committee. And, yes, not everybody will agree with the findings inside the bill, and there will be lots who will agree, but I have yet to stand in this House and hear of a smooth ride of any claims settlement bill coming through this House. This is the reality of what we go through. Under the leadership of our Minister here, the Hon Chris Finlayson, and the leadership of the chair of our select committee, Nuk Korako, I believe that we will be very expeditious with the rest of the process for your bill. I wholeheartedly support it and commend it to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00221d3be24eed9a42a2a1dce2e02a8a5cc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d3be24eed9a42a2a1dce2e02a8a5cc5\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a 5-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00228279ae2b42114038a6ec9f6ca58a3a90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228279ae2b42114038a6ec9f6ca58a3a90\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou rau rangatira m\u0101, Ng\u0101ruahine, Taranaki Maunga, Taranaki tangata, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, nau mai, haere mai. Haere mai ki te Whare P\u0101remata e takat\u016B nei n\u014D koutou t\u0113nei r\u0101 whakahirahira. Ka huri ng\u0101 whakaaro ki a r\u0101tou kua whet\u016Brangitia, haere koutou, haere koutou, ka hoki mai ki a t\u0101tou te hunga ora, e rau rangatira m\u0101. Huri rauna i t\u0113nei Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and greetings, esteemed ones of a hundredfold, Ng\u0101ruahine, Taranaki Mountain, Taranaki people; salutations, welcome, welcome. Come hither to Parliament House in readiness here; this momentous day is yours. My thoughts turn to those who have passed away, farewell and go forth to you collectively, and so I come back to us the living, esteemed ones of a hundredfold. Therefore I commend, acknowledge, and salute you collectively and us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIt is a great honour to be making a small contribution to the first reading of this settlement bill. I acknowledge Ng\u0101ruahine, my whanaunga who have travelled this long distance to finally be here in Parliament\u2014not only physically but also over the many, many years of mamae and anguish and pain that have transpired\u2014for the first reading of this settlement bill. I do acknowledge the whanaunga, just like the chair of our M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, my whanaunga Nuk Korako, through our connections with Poutini Ng\u0101i Tahu, but also through Ng\u0101ti Toa up to Taranaki. I am your p\u014Dtiki here and I do mihi to you today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI just acknowledge that we have heard a lot of the history. It is a dark, bloodstained history, and I was thinking that there is no need for me to traverse that. This year we are celebrating the 100th anniversary of the Great War, the First World War, as we rightly should do, and the sacrifice that was made collectively as a nation\u2014M\u0101ori, P\u0101keh\u0101, everybody\u2014in that Great War. But I think that too often we overlook our own history and our own conflicts and wars that took place in our country. There is no better example of that than the wars that took place in Taranaki in the 1860s and all the way through the 1880s. Our manuhiri here today were front and centre in the thick of all of that, and I think that as a nation we need to reflect on and make sure that that history is taught and carried on. I know this definitely happens at our hap\u016B and our whanau levels, but I think that collectively as a nation we need to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThese are special days. It is about remembering those who have put through the petitions and the commissions\u2014everything that has taken place in the past. It is about reflecting on that and it is also about acknowledging the work that has gone on with Te Korowai o Ng\u0101ruahine as well. I do acknowledge all of the hap\u016B who have come under Te Korowai who have completed this settlement. We know that not all hap\u016B are, perhaps, supportive of this settlement. We get that in every settlement piece of legislation that comes through this House. There will always be some disappointed or disaffected hap\u016B\u2014a hap\u016B with whakapapa in both camps, of different p\u0101\u2014so we will have the opportunity to hear that k\u014Drero and I think that is important too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBut let me not detract from the fact that this is a momentous day for Ng\u0101ruahine. I was just reflecting on the Crown labelling you, as a M\u0101ori, as being either \u201Ca loyal\u201D or \u201Ca rebel\u201D. I find that really staggering. Regardless of where Ng\u0101ruahine were\u2014as a loyal or a rebel\u2014actually, they were just helping their whanaunga of Te \u0100tiawa a lot of the time, getting behind them, because of the Crown\u2019s insatiable appetite for land. As anyone will know, when you go over the Waimate plains, these are beautiful plains, green lush plains, which stretch right out to the great maunga; obviously, green is gold. It is just a great sadness that this great iwi has been denied their lands, and at least there is some measure of compensation that is taking place here. Reserve lands\u2014yes, they were set aside, but most of them are locked up in perpetual leases so that they still cannot get access to their actual whenua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIt is a long history, and today, I think, is just to celebrate this first reading. I am looking forward to being in the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee where we will continue the k\u014Drero, so all I can do is commend this bill to the House. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0d941038d7047ce90ab58f50a4fe281\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0d941038d7047ce90ab58f50a4fe281\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E E te Mana Whakaw\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. It is a privilege to stand in the House today to support this bill in its first reading. I do not profess to understand either the pains of the injustices inflicted upon Ng\u0101ruahine in the past or the generations that it has taken to reach this point, but I come to this House and stand resolute in the belief that the New Zealand society that we want to deliver is one that provides opportunity for all our people to contribute to a growing economy\u2014one that is creating more and higher-paying jobs\u2014to participate in an education system that creates opportunities for our young and leads to greater prosperity in their futures, and where we can lead long and healthy lives and live safely in our homes and across our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Mr Korako said earlier, with this settlement and the economic redress that it includes, we cannot right the wrongs of the past, but we can provide an economic base for Ng\u0101ruahine to participate in the future and in the partnership of the New Zealand that we all wish to see. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b011701591b34a5d8990d7e0b716fdea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b011701591b34a5d8990d7e0b716fdea\u0022\u003EPEENI HENARE (Labour\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. \u201CTe tai r\u0101, te tai r\u0101, e tumu ana, e pari ana ki tawhiti nui, ki tawhiti roa, i Hawaiki r\u0101 n\u014D\u2014he tai tapu n\u0101 Tangaroa! T\u0113r\u0101 whaitiri, Te Waka o M\u0101taatua, i haere mai i te nuku roa. Ko te ngaru whatiwhati hoe he kura tongorere w\u0101 taku ika poutapu, n\u0101 Te Oro, n\u0101 Puhikaiariki. Ko ng\u0101 hoehoe o te p\u014D, te whet\u016B rere ata, ko T\u0101ne Mahuta i whakairihia, whano, whano, haere mai te toki, haumi e, hui e, t\u0101iki e!\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EK\u0101ti ake r\u0101 e te Whare! E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare ka t\u0101piri waku k\u014Drero, t\u0101u n\u0101 k\u014Drero i horaina ki runga i ng\u0101 manuhiri kua tae mai i te r\u0101 nei\u2014ka mea atu, he manuhiri? \u0112hara t\u0113nei i te whakaae! Kua roa rawa a Ng\u0101ruahine, kua roa rawa ng\u0101 iwi M\u0101ori e takahia nei i ng\u0101 ara poutama i mua i t\u0113nei Whare. He aha te take i takahia nei r\u0101tau i te nuku roa ka tae mai ki runga i a t\u0101tau i te r\u0101 nei? N\u0101, m\u014D ng\u0101 take Tiriti, m\u014D ng\u0101 t\u016Bkino a te Karauna ki a t\u0101tau Te Iwi M\u0101ori, t\u0113nei e whakatau nei i a koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKa huri ng\u0101 whakaaro ki ng\u0101 tini aitu\u0101. E te p\u0101p\u0101, e Hone, i kawea mai ng\u0101 puna roimata o Taranaki Maunga ki runga i Te Marae o \u014Ct\u012Bria ki roto, i ng\u0101 marama kua pahure ake nei, koutou Ng\u0101ruahine! Kia m\u014Dhio mai koutou i a au e tamariki ana, ko t\u014Dku p\u0101p\u0101 t\u0113r\u0101 i \u0101whina i a koutou me ng\u0101 mahi rangahau m\u014D \u014D koutou take Tiriti. I a au e tamariki ana, ia marama i taraiwa m\u0101tau ko p\u0101p\u0101, m\u0101tau ko t\u014Dku wh\u0101ea ki roto i a koutou. He aha ai? Hei \u0101ta w\u0101nanga i ng\u0101 take! Hei \u0101ta k\u014Drero i ng\u0101 t\u016Bkinotanga! Hei whakatuituia, hei whakawhanaunga i a t\u0101tau ki roto i ng\u0101 whakapapa e puritia nei e t\u0101tau Te Iwi M\u0101ori. N\u014D reira, ka tangi tonu te ng\u0101kau m\u014D p\u0101p\u0101 kua ngaro atu ki Te P\u014D! Ka tangi tonu m\u014D ng\u0101 mate, m\u014D ng\u0101 aitu\u0101 maha i mauria mai e koutou ki runga i te t\u0101h\u016Bh\u016B o t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EN\u0101, ka whakaaro ake ahau ki ng\u0101 ingoa kua wahangia nei e te Minita. Ko ahau t\u0113n\u0101 e oro ana i ng\u0101 ingoa, me \u0113tahi atu i mahue atu, i roto i ng\u0101 r\u0101rangi ingoa o te Minita i te r\u0101 nei. Ka whakaaro ake m\u014D te p\u0101p\u0101, a Tohe Pakanga Ng\u0101tai, ka whakaaro ake m\u014D te papa, a Harry Hikuroa, me t\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 m\u0101tua, a Jack r\u0101ua ko Peggy Toro. Ka whakaaro ake ki ng\u0101 m\u0101tua ki a Lawa r\u0101ua ko June Nuku, ki a H\u014Dne Luke, ki te p\u0101p\u0101 ki a Eric Taha, an\u0101, me te wh\u0101ea a Rose. Ka whakaaro ake ki a Cyril T\u0101mau, \u0101n\u0101, me t\u014Dna tuakana a Sonny. Kai roto i waku whakaaro, ko te wh\u0101ea a M\u012Bria Rangi, an\u0101, ko Richie Luke, ko Bill K\u0101tene. Ahakoa ng\u0101 totohe kei waenganui i a koutou e Ng\u0101ruahine, e Taranaki Maunga, ng\u0101 au piki me ng\u0101 au heke i roto i \u014D koutou haerenga, hei \u0101ta whiriwhiri, hei \u0101ta totohe i t\u0113nei take e p\u0101 ana ki ng\u0101 t\u016Bkinotanga a te Karauna, \u0113nei ka tangi, \u0113nei ka mihi! He puna wai e utuhia, he wai kei aku kamo! \u201CTe pua k\u014Drau e ruia, e tipu i te waru!\u201D K\u0101ti te wahanga ki te hunga mate! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKa whakahokia mai ng\u0101 r\u0101rangi k\u014Drero ki a t\u0101tau e te Whare. Hei whakataki ake i te k\u014Drero: \u201CHe toa tau\u0101, he toa p\u0101hekeheke. Ko te toa ngaki kai, e kore e p\u0101heke!\u201D E mihi atu ahau ki a koutou e ng\u0101 ringa raup\u0101, koutou e ng\u0101 waha k\u014Drero, e \u014Dku apa whatukura, e \u014Dku apa m\u0101reikura. Ko koutou r\u0101 t\u0113r\u0101 e kawea nei i ng\u0101 moemoe\u0101, ng\u0101 mamaetanga o Ng\u0101ruahine i roto i ng\u0101 taumaha, tae noa mai ki te ata nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKai \u0101ianei, ka huri t\u016B atu ng\u0101 whakaaro ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kai roto i te pire, \u0101, kia m\u014Dhio mai t\u0101tou ka noho ahau ki roto i Te Reo M\u0101ori. Ka whakaaro ake ahau ki te w\u0101hanga tuatahi. Kai roto i taua w\u0101hanga he w\u0101hi whakap\u0101ha ki a koutou e Ng\u0101ruahine. \u0100, e m\u014Dhio ana t\u0101tau kua tae ki te w\u0101 me whakap\u0101ha. I \u0101ta wetewete e t\u0101tau i ng\u0101 kupu kai roto i te pire nei, kia tirohia i te h\u014Dhonutanga o te whakap\u0101ha ki a koutou, kia kaua e tuku m\u0101 te ngutu anake te whakap\u0101ha \u0113ngari, ka puta mai i te whatumanawa o te tangata, otir\u0101, o te Karauna e whakap\u0101ha nei. N\u0101, ka whakaaro ake ki ng\u0101 h\u012Btori kua k\u014Drero mai nei e te Whare. E kaha tautoko ana ahau i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o t\u0113n\u0101, o t\u0113n\u0101 o t\u0101tou. E mea atu ana i t\u016Bkinohia e te K\u0101wanatanga i a Ng\u0101ruahine. E mea atu ana kua wareware, kua roa rawa te K\u0101wanatanga, i wareware i a Ng\u0101ruahine ki roto i \u014Dna whiriwhiringa m\u014D ng\u0101 taumaha kua pahure ake nei. K\u0101ti, he pai, he manawanui te kite atu i t\u0113nei w\u0101hanga kua tuhia nei ki roto i te pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKa whakaaro ake ahau m\u014D t\u0113tahi atu w\u0101hanga: t\u0113tahi w\u0101hanga ki t\u0101ku nei titiro, ki te titiro o ng\u0101 kanohi M\u0101ori nei! He aha nei ko ng\u0101 kanohi? An\u0101, ko te whakapapa! Ko wai te K\u0101wanatanga, ko wai te ture ka tohu atu, an\u0101, ko Ng\u0101ruahine koutou? Kei te pupuru koutou i \u014D koutou whakapapa, hei tuituia ki ng\u0101 iwi katoa puta noa i te rohe wh\u0101nui o Taranaki, Ng\u0101ruahine, tae noa hoki ki a au i Te Tai Tokerau. Ko wai r\u0101 te Karauna te tohu, ko wai koutou? K\u0101ti, e mihi atu nei! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKa huri t\u016B atu ahau ki te w\u0101hanga tuarua o te pire. E toru ng\u0101 p\u016B w\u0101hanga kai roto i t\u0113nei w\u0101hanga, te w\u0101hanga tuarua. Tuatahi hai whakarite i t\u0113tahi mahere hei tiaki i te taiao, k\u0101ti, ko Papat\u016B\u0101nuku kei raro, ko Ranginui kei runga, t\u0113nei ka mihi. Ko t\u0113tahi atu p\u016B w\u0101hanga e mea atu ana, te tikanga m\u014D ng\u0101 hao ika. Kua roa rawa t\u0113nei Whare e totohe ana m\u014D ng\u0101 mahi hao ika o te motu wh\u0101nui nei. Pai te kite atu ki roto i te pire, ka whai w\u0101hanga a Ng\u0101ruahine ki roto i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero hao ika t\u0101 te mea, he iwi takutai koutou. N\u014D reira e mihi atu ana, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou! An\u0101, ko te p\u016B w\u0101hanga tuatoru kei roto i te w\u0101hanga tuarua, ko ng\u0101 taonga t\u016Bturu kei a koutou. Ko ng\u0101 rawa o te whenua, o te hau e pupuhi mai nei, an\u0101, koia r\u0101 t\u0113r\u0101, ko te hau i purea nei i \u014D koutou mauri, \u014D koutou wairua ki roto i ng\u0101 tau, an\u0101, he taonga t\u016Bturu t\u0113r\u0101\u2014[Bell rung] An\u0101, kua tangi te pere! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKa huri atu ahau ki te w\u0101hanga tuatoru, ar\u0101, te w\u0101hanga whakamutunga o te pire nei, te taha ki whakatika hapa arumoni me te k\u014Dnae p\u016Btea hei whakap\u0101ha atu, hei whakaea ai i te mamae kua roa rawa koutou e h\u012Bpokina, k\u0101ti! He aha nei n\u0101 te p\u016Btea ki a t\u0101ua Te M\u0101ori? I te ao o ng\u0101 m\u0101tua t\u016Bpuna, ko te oranga te mea nui! Ko te k\u014Drero o ng\u0101 m\u0101tua tupuna p\u0113r\u0101 i a T\u0101 Apirana Ng\u0101ta e mea atu ana: \u201CM\u0101 ng\u0101 r\u0101kau a te P\u0101keh\u0101 ka whiwhi oranga.\u201D N\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101! Ka tukuna atu i t\u0113nei k\u014Dnae p\u016Btea ki a koutou, hei whakatinana ake i \u014D koutou moemoe\u0101, i \u014D koutou moehewa m\u014D ng\u0101 uri whakatupu, m\u014D ng\u0101 mokopuna e haere ake nei, k\u0101ti! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EE mihi atu ana ki Te R\u014Dp\u016B Whiriwhiri i ng\u0101 Take M\u0101ori \u0101ianei ka tau te pire ki mua i a koutou, otir\u0101, ki mua i a t\u0101tau. Ka noho t\u0101tou ki te \u0101ta whakarongo. N\u0101, he taonga te whakarongo! Kauw\u0113 e tohutohu ki a Ng\u0101ruahine ki roto i te pire anake! Te mea nui, kia \u0101ta whakarongo t\u0101tau katoa ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero \u0101 t\u0113n\u0101, \u0101 t\u0113n\u0101, \u0101-t\u0113n\u0101, k\u0101ti! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKi a t\u0101tau katoa e te Whare m\u014D ng\u0101 mahi katoa kua oti nei i te ata, e mihi atu ana. Ng\u0101ruahine! Ka, waiho ng\u0101 kete kupu nei a te tupuna kei roto i a au a Te K\u0101witi e mea atu ana, \u201Cme titiro ki ng\u0101 taumata o Te Moana\u201D, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113na koutou, kia ora t\u0101tau katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker of the House. \u201CIt is the tide, it is the tide, it ebbs and flows in from the far and great distance, from way back to the homeland Hawaiki, it is the sacred tide of Tangaroa. That thunderous canoe of M\u0101taatua traversed the great distance, the wave that splinters paddles and heralds the sacred fish of Te Oro belonging to Puhikaiariki. The night paddles, the dawn star are T\u0101ne Mahuta personified; proceed, go forward, come forth the adze, join, gather, entwine!\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EEnough of that for now. Mr Deputy Speaker of the House, I add my tributes to yours that you cast so lavishly upon the visitors that have arrived here today\u2014but I ask: visitors? I do not agree! Ng\u0101ruahuine, and indeed M\u0101oridom, have for a long time tramped the well-worn red stoned paths before this House. And what is the reason why they have tramped the great distance to be seated there above us there today? For Treaty matters and transgressions of the Crown upon us, indeed the M\u0101ori people, that I and every one of you as a collective have considered\u2014hello there! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI turn my thoughts to the myriads who have passed away. To you, the elder Hone, you took the pools of tears of Taranaki Mountain up on to the marae of \u014Ct\u012Bria in months just past; you, Ng\u0101ruahine. You must understand, Ng\u0101ruahine, that while I was a toddler my father was that person who assisted you and the research that was done on matters pertaining to you under the Treaty. While I was a child, each month we would drive down with my dad and mum to be amongst you. Why? To critically analyse matters, to speak about the wrongdoings carefully, to weave our connections and relationships with each other through the genealogies that we as M\u0101ori keep. Therefore, I continue to grieve inside for Dad, who has gone to the void, and for the deaths and the many misfortunes that you as a collective have brought upon the roof of our House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ENow I think about the names that the Minister mentioned. I was one who heard them, but others who were left out in the list of names by the Minister today come to mind: elder Tohepakanga Ng\u0101tai, elder Harry Hikuroa, and the parents Jack and Peggy Toro. I think about parents like Lawa and June Nuku, Hone Luke, elder Eric Taha, and, yes indeed, Dame Rose. I recollect Cyril T\u0101mau and his elder brother Sonny. In my mind is dear Dame M\u012Bria Rangi, and then Richie Luke, plus Bill K\u0101tene. Despite the ongoing internal debates within you, Ng\u0101ruahine and Taranaki Mountain, the ups and downs in your journeys to carefully consider and debate this matter relating to the transgressions of the Crown, we mourn and acknowledge you. As a spring gushes water, so do tears that well up in my eyes. \u201CThe young fern shoots grow unto maturation when summer is upon us!\u201D With due respect to the dead, enough for that part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI bring the comments back to us in the House. To preface this part of the address, an aphorism: \u201CA warrior\u2019s life is full of uncertainty, but the life of one who is an expert at tilling crops for food is not.\u201D I acknowledge you, the providers of secretariat services, the advocates, the providers of expert and specialist advice; you are the ones who have carried the aspirations and pain of Ng\u0101ruahine through the hard times, right up to this morning. I say well done, congratulations, and good on you all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI turn now to the contents in this bill, but you must all understand that I will remain speaking in the M\u0101ori language. I reflect on Part 1, where there is an apology to you, Ng\u0101ruahine. We know that we have come to where an apology must be made. We analysed the wording very critically to assess the depth of the apology offered to you, so that it was not coming merely from the lips alone but from right inside the very core of the individual; in other words, this apology was coming from right within the heart of the Crown making the apology. Now, thinking about the historical accounts that the House presented here, I strongly endorse the sentiments expressed by each and every one of us. The sentiments are saying that the Government violated Ng\u0101ruahine. It is saying that the Government has absolutely forgotten about Ng\u0101ruahine for a long time in its own considerations about the seriousness of these in the past. Well, it is good and really reassuring to see this part that has been written into the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI think about another part, one that in my perspective reflects a point of view from these M\u0101ori eyes! Why the eyes now? Well, it is the genealogy! Who indeed is the Government, the law, to say that you are Ng\u0101ruahine? Hold fast to your genealogy, to thread to all tribes throughout the broad region of Taranaki and right up to me, as well, in the north! Who indeed is the Crown to say who you are? But, enough; I acknowledge you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI stand and turn to Part 2 of the bill. There are three Subparts in this section of Part 2; firstly, to consider a plan to protect the environment. Now then, there is Mother Earth below and Sky Father above; I applaud this. Another clause sets out protocols for fisheries. This House has been debating fisheries operations throughout this country for far too long. So it is good to see a part included in the bill for Ng\u0101ruahine to have a place in the discussions around fisheries, because you are a coastal people. So I applaud you; well done. And now for Subpart 3 in Part 2 of the bill: things of value handed down that you have, Ng\u0101ruahine, resources of the land and air, the very wind that has been removing impediments from your life and spiritual principle for uncounted years. Now then, those are treasures handed down\u2014[Bell rung] And there goes the bell! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI turn now to Part 3, to the concluding part of this bill, which relates to commercial redress and a component of the apology\u2014the financial package to alleviate the pain you have borne for so long. Enough said! What exactly is funding to us M\u0101ori? In the world of our forefathers, livelihood was the most important thing. In a statement by one of them, Sir Apirana Ngata had this to say: \u201CLivelihood will be achieved through the tools of the non-M\u0101ori.\u201D And there you are! A financial package is offered to you to manifest your aspirations and dreams and those of the generations and grandchildren to come. Enough said! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. The bill is about to come before you\u2014in other words, before us. We will sit down and have a good listen. Now then, listening is a thing to be prized. Do not just give counsel to Ng\u0101ruahine solely in the bill. The most important thing is that we must all give our ear to each and every one who gives an account. Enough said! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EAnd so I thank all of us in the House for what has been achieved this morning. To you, Ng\u0101ruahine, I leave these words within me from my ancestor Te K\u0101witi for you: \u201CLook to the peaks of the ocean.\u201D Greetings and acknowledgments to you and to us all, collectively; thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6d4d830f53347c7b60ae7b880727d77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6d4d830f53347c7b60ae7b880727d77\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, e te Mana Whakaw\u0101; t\u0113n\u0101 koe, e te Whare; and particularly warm greetings to all who are here today representing Ng\u0101ruahine. I made the point earlier today that, unfortunately, because of the significant amount of business that the House has to conduct in a fairly short space of time, some of us speaking in the latter stages of this debate will have to take very short calls. But I do want to assure you that that does not, in any way, suggest that we do not fully appreciate and endorse the great significance of this occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI want to begin by thanking those who have spoken in today\u2019s debate. I think that most have made very thoughtful and insightful contributions. It is certainly not an occasion to be mean spirited or petty. The significance of this occasion deserves much more than that, and I want to acknowledge the outstanding work that the Crown negotiators have done and, particularly, the goodwill that has been shown by Ng\u0101ruahine in engaging with the process. You could never be adequately compensated for the wrongs that have been done. It is a privilege to be one of the modern-day parliamentarians who has an opportunity to be part of trying to redress these great wrongs. As others have said, we could never adequately do that, but I think that by acknowledging the wrong and by being absolutely determined to ensure that we do our level best to try to ensure a much brighter future for the iwi, that is, I hope, in a small way, an indication of goodwill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe other point that I would make is that this is a process that began more than two decades ago, under the leadership of the Rt Hon Jim Bolger and the outstanding work that was done by his Treaty negotiations Minister Sir Doug Graham. The greatest progress of all has been made under the determined leadership of the Rt Hon John Key and the outstanding stewardship of this portfolio by the Hon Chris Finlayson. So to those who wish to be demeaning of that effort, I simply make the point that actions speak louder than words. It is this Minister and his team who have been getting on with the job. I am immensely proud to be supporting them in their endeavours. I thank the select committee for the outstanding work that it is doing. I wish the iwi all the very best for what I hope will be a bright and prosperous future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBill referred to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWaiata\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002235ecd580c3644127b5684f3add87e821\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235ecd580c3644127b5684f3add87e821\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022886d8ccfa3444805985b8720269c3d73\u0022\u003EHawke\u2019s Bay Regional Planning Committee Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aed9839cad484e24b5d3363e73d86d33\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b436bf13c56a46fb92b7bfd695ac798c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b436bf13c56a46fb92b7bfd695ac798c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: It is my understanding that leave has been given\u2014or I will now seek leave\u2014for the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Planning Committee Bill to be considered as one question, but for votes to be taken separately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f43b69dc767b44f3bc95d3bafd4bfa61\u0022\u003EPreamble, Parts 1 and 2, schedule, and clauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1058955251a45a2a4b00ab529bb3622\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1058955251a45a2a4b00ab529bb3622\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I will take just a brief call to explain to members what Supplementary Order Paper 104 is about. All it is is that, since this bill had its first reading on 2 November 2014, two of the iwi in the \u201Ct\u0101ngata whenua appointer\u201D definition in clause 4, Ng\u0101ti Hineuru and He Toa Takitini, have actually formed their mandated post-settlement governance entities. This has happened, obviously, before the legislation has passed, and that is why an amendment to the definition of \u201Ct\u0101ngata whenua appointer\u201D in clause 4 is required to reflect this. Minor subsequent amendments to clauses 5 and 11 are also required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 104 in the name of the Hon Christopher Finlayson be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EPreamble, Parts 1 and 2, schedule, and clauses 1 and 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022709c1e3a7d2f48a09950223e9b9d47a7\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022320df64f1fa54d36b3de1b221637d0e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022320df64f1fa54d36b3de1b221637d0e2\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Planning Committee Bill be now read a third time. I acknowledge the iwi from the Hawke\u2019s Bay region involved in developing this legislation and welcome some familiar faces to the gallery. I acknowledge that it has taken a long time to reach this very important milestone. I also acknowledge those who are representatives of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council. They too, like their iwi counterparts, have travelled a long way to be here in Parliament to listen to this, the third reading of the bill. To those of you who have worked so hard to make this possible, I offer you my very, very sincere thanks. It has been more than 5 years since Cabinet agreed to establish a planning committee of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council through legislation. The committee is the outcome of a significant amount of both careful and creative thinking about how best to manage the diverse and complex nature of the natural resources in the Hawke\u2019s Bay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAt the beginning of this process we considered a number of existing models around New Zealand to see whether any of those would be suitable for the situation in Hawke\u2019s Bay, and I acknowledge the Hon Nanaia Mahuta here. We actually had a good look at the Waikato model and whether that could be transplanted across, for example. But because of the sheer number of rivers and waterways within the region we actually found that none of those models would work. Having one board for each of the rivers in their catchment areas would result in clumsy administration as well as being very difficult and uneconomic to manage. So a completely new approach was required, and who better to do it than Fran Wilde, who at the relevant time was chair of the Greater Wellington Regional Council, and there is a considerable body of opinion, including me, that she should still be the chair of the Greater Wellington Regional Council. She had been the chief Crown negotiator for Ng\u0101ti P\u0101hauwera, and she had the inspired idea of devising a committee that was tailored to the Hawke\u2019s Bay situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EIt is a committee that takes an overarching, collaborative, and unified approach to resource management, so I acknowledge Fran\u2019s meticulous work. It is not the sort of once-over-lightly, superficial exercise that some may expect Crown negotiators to get involved in. If you adopt that approach in the interests of saving a few thousand here and there, then you fail\u2014not you, Mr Assistant Speaker, of course; I am talking about one. It is certainly not a recipe for success in Treaty negotiations, hence the need for hard-working, dedicated Treaty negotiators. In practical terms this committee, which comprises equal numbers of council and iwi members, has already been successfully working in interim form\u2014since at least 2012 the committee has been operating\u2014and it is demonstrating the benefits of a coordinated and a collaborative approach from elected representatives from both the council and iwi in the Hawke\u2019s Bay region. By improving iwi participation and governance on natural resources, costs in resource management processes for local authorities, businesses, and the public will be reduced over time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThis bill gives effect to the Crown\u2019s commitment made in the Ng\u0101ti P\u0101hauwera deed of settlement, and again recorded in the Maungaharuru-Tangit\u016B deed of settlement to work with iwi and hap\u016B to introduce legislation to establish this committee. The bill ensures that the relevant iwi post-settlement governance entities are entitled to appoint representatives on that committee. It sets out a framework for the committee, but it does not specify all its operating provisions. These will be discussed and agreed by committee members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EWhat is the purpose of the bill? Well, the purpose is to improve the involvement of iwi in the region to oversee the development and review of a regional policy statement and regional plans for the region prepared in accordance with the Resource Management Act 1991. It does not mean that the committee will make actual decisions on behalf of the full council. The committee has strong recommendatory powers. An important feature of the committee, moreover, is that it is a permanent committee and can be discharged only by unanimous agreement of all members\u2014iwi and council members alike. The rationale behind this is that the committee is involved with resource management issues that span a much greater time frame than local body elections. Under schedule 7 of the Local Government Act, committees are deemed to be dissolved at or following triennial general elections of members. In order to function effectively and ensure continuity of planning, the committee needs to span local body election cycles, so the bill needs to provide for this section of schedule 7 to be overridden. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThere are many people who have contributed to this legislation, both within iwi and within Crown agencies. As I have already noted, I particularly want to acknowledge Fran Wilde. She is unable to be here to mark this occasion because, I think, she is in Oslo, but it was her creativity and drive that contributed significantly to the formation of this committee. She and other Crown negotiators do a great job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI also wish to acknowledge the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council. Its efforts and its willingness to engage with the hap\u016B and with officials have been vital to the ultimate success of this legislation. The council has shown a real commitment to having an ongoing relationship with iwi in its region. In its approach to its obligation to consult with iwi on resource management matters, the council actually had two options. It could make separate arrangements over seven separate catchment areas or it could work with all the iwi in the region to cover the whole of the region, and it chose the latter. The resultant legislation is a good example of a strong co-governance model that is well resourced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EMost important, I want to acknowledge the tireless work of the iwi leaders involved in the development of this very important legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe bill has taken time, energy, diplomacy\u2014at times\u2014patience, and pragmatism so that we could all arrive at a piece of legislation that satisfies all parties that are involved. The legislation is the basis of a new and an on-going relationship between the regional council and the iwi of the bay, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u00221daad60e7df44ce0a8274bcfdc158c14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221daad60e7df44ce0a8274bcfdc158c14\u0022\u003EMEKA WHAITIRI (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Ng\u0101 mema o te Whare nei t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau katoa. E te hau k\u0101inga kua tae mai nei, nau mai, hoki mai ki \u014D t\u0101tou Whare i t\u0113nei w\u0101 i runga i te kaupapa whakahirahira o te w\u0101 nei. N\u014D reira, hari koa ana te ng\u0101kau ki te kitekite an\u014D i a koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Assistant Speaker. To the members of this House, greetings to us all. And to the people from home who have arrived here, come hither and welcome back to our House at this moment, on this inspiring proposal of this time. Therefore, it is so heartening to set eyes on you once again\u2014congratulations!]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI stand with members on this side of the House in wholeheartedly welcoming the third reading of this bill, the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Planning Committee Bill. Can I please acknowledge those who have travelled long distances to be here to hear the passage of this important piece of legislation. Can I acknowledge the origins of this bill, being the Ng\u0101ti P\u0101hauwera Treaty Claims Settlement Act. Can I mihi to my wh\u0101nau of Ng\u0101ti P\u0101hauwera, Toro Waaka\u2014good to have you here in the House. Also, I acknowledge our wh\u0101nau from Maungaharuru-Tangit\u016B, Tania Hopmans. T\u0113nei te mihi ki a koe ki a koutou katoa. I also see our chairman of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council, Fenton Wilson. Ka nui te mihi ki a koe, Fenton. It is lovely to have you here again to witness the third reading of this important bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the work of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. There was mention that we had eight submissions presented to the select committee. Six clearly supported this bill. Some had some reservations, but I do want to acknowledge the work of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee and our chair and our members here in bringing this bill back to the House. I want to say, just in terms of the select committee process, that I know that although there were only eight who actually submitted, the importance of this bill was well discussed back home in terms of unlocking the co-governance arrangement, which is clearly, I think, going to benefit the Hawke\u2019s Bay region. When I see eight submissions I can almost triple that to know that the people at home have a very, very keen interest in this particular bill and what it will enable. So I want to commend those who did submit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI also do not want to shy away from some of the points I raised in the second reading, because if you are going to raise an issue then you want to stand by that. There were a couple of issues that I did raise in the second reading. One was around representation, and I acknowledge all the iwi who are currently at the table. I wanted the issue around coverage\u2014and I will, again, welcome all the iwi who are at the table. We still have a major entity back in the Hawke\u2019s Bay, Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu Iwi Inc., which, through the Maori Fisheries Act, does have some responsibilities that will probably extend what we are passing through this bill. So the cautionary note I made at the second reading, which I say again at the third reading, was that it will be something that needs to be managed between the iwi at the table and the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council, simply because we do not want anything coming unstuck over what we are starting to pass through this House here. K\u014Drero is definitely a better proposition to have than to be litigating in the courts, so I just wanted to make that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThe other point I raised was one around skills and capabilities. I acknowledge the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council\u2019s commitment of $100,000 to help with the resourcing of this committee, but, again, as we get into the technical areas of the Resource Management Act, that requires quite a bit of investment, particularly if you have got iwi at the table to unlock the intricacies, I guess, of the legislation that surrounds the Resource Management Act. Again, I just raise that point to ensure that what we are setting up here is well resourced\u2014well resourced\u2014so that it can do the job that we all want it to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge that in working out a co-arrangement that would best suit the Hawke\u2019s Bay, we did reference a similar arrangement in the Ng\u0101ti Awa and the Ng\u0101ti Tama claims to ensure that this particular arrangement was fit for purpose. So I want to acknowledge the research that went into that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI am glad to stand here to say that I am from the Hawke\u2019s Bay. Our primary industry is critical to the survival of our economy. Having good governance and good decision-making ensures not only that our land and our water are protected but that they are allowed to grow the opportunities that we very much have become accustomed to in Hawke\u2019s Bay and we also want to protect. So in accepting and supporting this bill I see it as a continuum of both iwi and local government having a say in the future of the Hawke\u2019s Bay. I want to acknowledge the Minister\u2019s introductory point around this committee\u2019s role as being purely recommendatory, and say that the final decision sits at the local government level. We have local elections coming up in 2016 and we will be encouraging as many people from the Hawke\u2019s Bay\u2014hopefully, we will see more iwi at both the regional council as well as the city council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ESo I really want to support this bill coming through the House. I can see the potential and the fortitude that the negotiators of Ng\u0101ti P\u0101hauwera have set. I have shared my cautionary notes about ensuring that this is an ongoing arrangement. I also want to acknowledge the hard work of the Napier MP, my colleague Stuart Nash, who I want to say works really tirelessly for Napier and for the people of Hawke\u2019s Bay. It is a pleasure to work with Stu and his absolute commitment not only to making us the best region in New Zealand but also to holding on to that log of wood when another colleague of ours hopes to be travelling down with the Northland team on Sunday to try to take it off us. So\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9a73c596bd54ff1b70cd809a3136c9d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I am just going to warn the member against irony.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281434fca93ef47dfab0fab524e5cd0e9\u0022\u003EMEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: I again want to assure the House that I look forward to the passage of the final reading of this bill. I can see the potential, like I said, that it will unlock in Hawke\u2019s Bay. I wish that all the iwi who have come today and the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council let it be a model for all co-governance arrangements in Hawke\u2019s Bay, because I can see the opportunity that it will unlock there for our people, whom we represent. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022d048726d428a4ea7b259a0c52e980463\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d048726d428a4ea7b259a0c52e980463\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker, kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tau katoa. Kai aku rangatira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa i t\u0113nei ata, kua mihia a Ng\u0101ti Hineuru i t\u0113nei ata, ka mutu, n\u014D n\u0101 tata nei i puta atu ai a Ng\u0101ruahine o roto o Taranaki, t\u0113nei w\u0101 ko koutou \u0113nei kua tat\u016B mai, ko t\u0101ku ko te whaiwhai haere i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero a te Minita, \u0101, ka mutu, o taku tuahine ki a koutou, e ng\u0101 rangatira i roto i te Whare P\u0101remata. E kui \u0100whina t\u0113n\u0101 koe, he oranga ng\u0101kau te kite atu i a koe e whakakorikori nei i t\u014D iwi, ka mutu, e hari koa ana kua tae mai koe, koutou i t\u0113nei r\u0101 ki te whakaotinga mai o ng\u0101 mahi kua roa e haere nei i t\u014Dna huarahi, n\u014D reira, hara mai me ng\u0101 mate kua k\u014Drerohia, ka mutu, ka huri ki a koutou katoa ng\u0101 kanohi \u014D r\u0101tou m\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tau katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and to us all once again. I acknowledge you all collectively, my esteemed elders. This morning we welcomed Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, and, furthermore, Ng\u0101ruahine of Taranaki left just moments ago, and now you have arrived here. My part is to follow up the Minister\u2019s sentiments and, after that, those of my esteemed sister\u2019s words to you collectively, the esteemed members of Parliament. Madam \u0100whina, greetings to you. How heartening it is to see you mobilising your tribe, and, what is more, it is pleasing to see you arrive, with you others today, to finalise tasks that have been on their way for a long time. So welcome, with the deaths that were alluded to, and, furthermore, I turn to address you, the representatives of all those who have passed away. I acknowledge, commend, and congratulate you and us all collectively; thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ECan I just add to the comments made by the member for Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti, Meka Whaitiri, as well as by the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations welcoming people here to this particular k\u014Drero. I have not got too much to say in this debate. Suffice it to say that one great thing about this bill in particular\u2014and there is only one point that I want to make\u2014is that, finally, some of our boards and councils that have been set up have come and seen the light. They should not be scared of M\u0101ori input into decision making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe scene was set, I think, by the Hon Mita Ririnui in the Labour Government back in the day, when it opened the door up to involvement in Waiariki, in my case, from Te Arawa people, the Mataatua people, to be involved in decision making at the regional council. Three members on, and no one else has taken up the baton since then. I want to congratulate the Hawke\u2019s Bay region\u2014congratulations on bringing together our iwi into the decision making. I am so pleased, albeit I hear: \u201COh, a recommendatory body. Well, you know, I think our people are seeking a little bit more than that.\u201D But that is OK\u2014it is a step along the pathway. We want to actually be a part of the decisions that are made for our region. Why? N\u014D t\u0101tau te whenua, ka mutu he whenua M\u0101ori w\u0113tahi i raro i te \u0101huatanga o Te Tiriti o Waitangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[The land is ours, and, furthermore, some are M\u0101ori lands under the situations that relate to the Treaty of Waitangi.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI think it is important that we do have absolute say and are part of the decision-making processes, certainly around environmental issues. Why? Because, No. 1, it is a Treaty responsibility, and I think that the debate in respect of the Mayor of New Plymouth putting the whole notion around seats on to councils by right, as a Treaty right, as well as a representational right, is the right thing to do. I am so pleased, as I say, that this has happened today and about the involvement of all iwi that have been spoken about: Ng\u0101ti P\u0101hauwera, who opened the door up\u2014ka nui te mihi ki a koutou\u2014Maungaharuru-Tangit\u016B Trust, which has been in this House before and I see some faces that are familiar; Mana Ahuriri Inc.; Te Tira Whakaemi o Te Wairoa; and He Toa Takitini. It is good to know also there are some other seats there for Ng\u0101ti Hineuru, whose legislation had its first reading today, Ng\u0101ti Ruapani, Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa, and Ng\u0101i T\u016Bhoe\u2014all the ones who live down that end, anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo congratulations, our people, on taking up this challenge and putting it in front of the district council. Congratulations to the council on taking up the opportunity to work together, and I hope and pray that this is an example that will be set throughout the country. It has set the scene of working together. We have got a vested interest in our people being involved in the decision making, and I hope that we take up this opportunity with plenty of vigour and participate in the decision-making process. But keep pushing the boundaries\u2014this is but a start. The test will be when it gets down to the crunch and we have to make a decision and somebody disagrees with the decisions that are made across the board by all iwi involved. That is the real test\u2014to see whether the relationship in fact does mean anything. With that, I say congratulations again. Ka nui te mihi ki a koutou katoa, aroha mai m\u014D te poto o t\u0113nei k\u014Drero kua \u0101hua m\u0101uiui t\u0113nei M\u0101ori, \u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou kia ora t\u0101tau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Much appreciation to you all, and my apologies for the brevity of this speech, as this M\u0101ori is getting rather weary. And so acknowledgments and congratulations to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u002285e1e1b2435e46ba82f6d7466cdbf105\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285e1e1b2435e46ba82f6d7466cdbf105\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. I must admit that Meka Whaitiri\u2019s words were saying\u2014I very much enjoy working with Meka. We work very closely together. Labour in Hawke\u2019s Bay has never been stronger\u2014onwards and upwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations made a very good point, actually, and that is that we should never be scared of working in a co-governance model. This is my third speech on this bill and I have outlined the reasons why I support this, but the main reason really is the kaitiakitanga model and philosophy that M\u0101ori have around land management. I have always believed, and I have tested this a number of times with my good colleagues, that M\u0101ori have more of a stewardship role than an ownership role when it comes to land, and therefore have the ability to look to future generations. As opposed to saying \u201CI own this now and I\u2019ll do what\u2019s best for myself.\u201D, they are saying: \u201CThis is here for future generations and we don\u2019t own it. All we are is guardians for the future.\u201D I love that model. I think it is absolutely fantastic and it is the way we should be managing all our native resources. But there is not a word in the English language that encompasses that philosophy and that is as beautiful as \u201Ckaitiakitanga\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI tell you, I stand up here and I am fearful that one of the longest courtships is going to end in one of the shortest marriages. The Minister, the Hon Chris Finlayson, talked about how this had taken 5 years to get to where it is\u2014extensive negotiations between affected parties. But the way that I read this piece of legislation is that once the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council is gone, then this group falls over. What we are facing at the moment is an amalgamation referendum in Hawke\u2019s Bay. On 15 September this year we will know what the governance arrangements for Hawke\u2019s Bay will be. We will know whether there are still four local councils and one regional council, or whether the Napier City, Wairoa District, Central Hawke\u2019s Bay District, Hastings District, and the regional councils are to be dissolved and merged into one Hawke\u2019s Bay council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe way I read the final proposal put out by the Local Government Commission is that what will be attached to this new amalgamated council is a M\u0101ori board and a natural resources committee. What it also says is that that M\u0101ori board will have a statutory limit of 6 years, and then it will exist only due to the largesse of the council. So I do not know where this committee stands in respect of the local legislation. Does it mean that there could be possibly two M\u0101ori advisory boards? Because that is the way I read it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI talked to Wairoa District Council extensively about this and it has one of its advisory boards. The way it believes things is that its advisory board will once again disappear and be replaced by the advisory boards as outlined in the Local Government Commission\u2019s final report. I might be wrong. I may be reading the legislation wrong, and if I am, then I am sure the Minister will correct me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d2bc6b671cf405d8e888d611235686c\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: No, I can\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249e617d4342a45ca8837fbb248820367\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, personally\u2014you will correct me personally and I will seek to address this in a newspaper article or something. But I do not understand how this fits in to the final proposal for Hawke\u2019s Bay regional governance. The reason I say this is that I had a look through the final proposal put forward by the Local Government Commission before I came to speak on this bill and I saw no reference to this group at all. So I am unaware as to whether the Local Government Commission was even aware that this piece of legislation was going through the House, which would surprise me because, as we have acknowledged, it has been in the winds now\u2014or more than the winds; it has been on the table\u2014for 5 years. So it is a very important piece of legislation, and there are people who have put a lot of time and effort into it. As mentioned, I completely support it. So let us see what will happen there. Let us have a talk afterwards, Mr Finlayson, and see where we end up on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe other thing I would like to say is that these committees are fantastic in principle and they look really good on paper, but the real test is whether we can really make these work and whether there is the relationship with the council\u2014not just the council but the body itself\u2014to make sure that people are working in partnership with good faith. The way people tend to work in Hawke\u2019s Bay, by and large, is in good faith. There is no doubt about that. That is my experience from being a member of Parliament for 3 years\u2014being outside and coming back. But I just hope that that same good faith is transferred from this board through to the regional council and that we can make decisions in the best interests of Hawke\u2019s Bay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EObviously a big one that is coming up\u2014a very, very big decision\u2014is the Ruataniwha Water Storage Scheme. This is one that I know my colleague Meka Whaitiri has major concerns about. I have no doubt\u2014well, I do know, actually, because I have been in a number of meetings where Meka has spoken about these concerns, and this is something that we are going to need to work through as a community to get the right outcomes for Hawke\u2019s Bay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI will leave it at that, but let us hope this works in the best interests of the Bay, because we are a province of immense potential. We are doing well in some areas. I must admit we did not get the boom times when the dairy sector was going hell for leather, but as a consequence we are not getting some of the bust times when the dairy sector is in the doldrums. We have got the wine industry doing incredibly well, we have got the apple industry doing incredibly well, red meat is doing well, and there are also a number of exceptionally innovative businesses from Hawke\u2019s Bay that are taking on the world and winning. So all I can say is onwards and upwards. Meka and I are going to be here for as long as it takes to really drive meaningful change in Hawke\u2019s Bay, and I will look forward to the next few years. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u00223b72c45baa4248969098534ead7b633a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b72c45baa4248969098534ead7b633a\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker, \u0101, huri noa i te Whare P\u0101remata nei ng\u0101 mema e me mihi atu ki a koutou katoa. T\u0113nei te mihi o te whanauka o Te Waka o T\u0101kitimu ki a Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu me koutou r\u0101 ng\u0101 iwi katoa, e mihi atu ki a koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and to the members of this House of Parliament, I acknowledge you all. I, this relative of the canoe of T\u0101kitimu, acknowledge you, Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu, and all other tribes; greetings to you collectively.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI am pleased to speak in support of the third reading of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Planning Committee Bill, and I want to acknowledge the representatives of both iwi and the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council who are here today. I also acknowledge those who have worked so hard on this bill but could not be here today. The establishment of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Planning Committee was mandated by the deeds of settlement with Ng\u0101ti P\u0101hauwera and Maungaharuru-Tangit\u016B Hap\u016B, but it incorporates many other iwi along with representatives of Ng\u0101ti Hineuru Iwi Inc., Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa Hap\u016B Forum Trust, He Toa Takitini, Mana Ahuriri Inc., and Te Tira Whakaemi o Te Wairoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThe committee is already in operation and by all accounts is working very well. It was clear to us on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee that there was a strong relationship between the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council and local iwi. The relationship developed through an understanding on the shared goals that M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori have for the Hawke\u2019s Bay region. With the establishment of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Planning Committee\u2014the final step, as this legislation is passed, is to give it legal standing\u2014that relationship will only become stronger. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EAnother thing that was clear to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee when we considered the bill was the innovative approach to a very, very complex problem in some ways. None of the existing models of natural resource management would have worked for Hawke\u2019s Bay, so a new approach was indeed needed. This is a new way of collaborating, a new way of putting into practice the relationship between iwi and local government, and it is working successfully. It is a great example of how iwi and local government can, and should, work together in partnership. This bill does not give iwi the right to mandate certain outcomes or overrule the elected council. Its purpose is not to move decision making away from the regional council but to bring iwi into the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EAlthough the committee has been operating successfully without a formal legal mandate since 2011, the bill is important to the ongoing operation of the committee. First of all, it ensures that the committee is a permanent committee\u2014just to address the previous speaker, Stuart Nash\u2014of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council and is, therefore, not dissolved before each local body election. This permanence ensures that the committee and its work continues regardless of election cycles, although some of the membership will change, depending on the outcome of the election. This enables the committee members, particularly the iwi representatives, to undertake long-term planning over multiple years and across election cycles. The bill also enshrines in law the entitlement of post-settlement governance entities to appoint representatives to the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI would like to once again acknowledge the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council. Our Minister has acknowledged the many people who have been involved in the bill and the workings of the committee to date. I just want to acknowledge, though, the committee co-chairs, Fenton Wilson and Toro Waaka\u2014t\u0113n\u0101 koe\u2014and everyone else who has served on that committee since its formation for the success they have had in the first years of the committee\u2019s operation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EFinally, in a lot of ways there is not a lot of change with the passing of the bill because the committee is already in operation, but the bill enshrines in legislation what is already happening and ensures the committee\u2019s future. This is an excellent bill, and I commend it to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f10c41c67fcd41229f3027df35f771ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f10c41c67fcd41229f3027df35f771ed\u0022\u003EDENISE ROCHE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, tuarua, ki ng\u0101 mema o t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa, t\u0113nei te mihi ki ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata katoa i te Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. Secondly, acknowledgments to members of our House, and I pay a tribute to everybody in the House. Greetings to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EI am speaking in the third reading of this bill, and I maintain that it is a privilege. But I am speaking on the bill for the Green Party in the place of Catherine Delahunty, who was the Green Party MP on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, which was hearing the submissions on this bill. She was spokesperson on the issues raised in this bill as it progressed through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EIn the second reading of this bill the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, the Hon Chris Finlayson, explained that this bill will establish the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Planning Committee, which implements the Government\u2019s decision to establish a statutory body called the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Planning Committee. The establishment of this committee will give effect to the commitment made by the Government in the Ng\u0101ti P\u0101hauwera deed of settlement and recorded in the Maungaharuru-Tangit\u016B Hap\u016B deed of settlement to work with iwi and hap\u016B in the Hawke\u2019s Bay region and with the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council to agree on details of this planning committee in order to introduce legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EThe bill ensures that the relevant iwi post-settlement governance entities and Crown-mandated entities will be entitled to appoint representatives to the planning committee. We support the concept of the Treaty settlement process creating mechanisms for genuine sharing of decision making that respects the rights and responsibilities of mana whenua hap\u016B and iwi\u2014and the Crown, for that matter\u2014as a Treaty partner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EWe are supporting this bill but we are also compelled to point out, as others have, that this bill could have been more aligned with the settlements that commit regional authorities to more than simply allowing a regional advisory committee on Resource Management Act issues. We acknowledge that there are certainly complexities around Kahungunu Inc. and iwi katoa, but we maintain that the Crown has an obligation to lead the regional authorities away from advisory tokenism, and we fear that that may well be the result of this bill. So we say that the Crown should lead authorities towards a genuine relationship between the regional council and iwi based on the rights and the obligations outlined in article 2 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EMy colleague Catherine Delahunty notes that this genuine relationship is a slow process. It is a gradual process of leading the horse of P\u0101keh\u0101 dominance and resistance to the pool of water, as well as making that horse drink. Iwi M\u0101ori know this well, as do those who have spent decades teaching Te Tiriti o Waitangi to tauiwi katoa\u2014that racism is rife and disquiet still exists from P\u0101keh\u0101 around Treaty settlement bills and bills like this that try to give some effect to some aspects of Treaty settlement. If I were to hazard a guess\u2014because I do not really understand it\u2014I would suggest that that racism stems from a fear of sharing power. And it stems from a sad and widespread lack of understanding of the history of our land, where, really, few P\u0101keh\u0101 actually understand the losses that were suffered by iwi and hap\u016B in the Hawke\u2019s Bay area and across Aotearoa. We maintain that, in the end, tangata whenua of the rohe deserve a whole lot more for their historical suffering\u2014the raupatu, marginalisation, and the economic servitude and low-paid jobs on land that was stripped from their grasp. They deserve the full right to the things that they never handed over: rangatiratanga and mana motuhake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EWe note that the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Planning Committee is a committee with powers and functions relating to the Resource Management Act. We note that iwi are already advisers to the council and that the advisory committee is, effectively, already operating. We would have preferred to see a co-governance, co-management model. I note, as would many in this House who have already had to deal with co-governance and co-management, that it is not an easy process. Those of us from Tainui and Raukawa and the other river iwi\u2014we know this. The difference is that this committee will make recommendations, but it will not make decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222df33ee5-23d6-441c-a9ba-6495aa69f9fd\u0022\u003EHaving said that, may this bill be celebrated as a step\u2014not as the final deal, but as a step\u2014in the right direction. It is a tribute to the negotiation team and to the tenacity of that negotiation in a context where the parameters are frequently changing. We see this as a beginning. As well as the end of this process through the House, it is a beginning and, certainly, it is not full and final. We see it as the beginning of a permanent negotiation for decolonisation and justice. We note and we acknowledge that this should be, and is, a time for optimism for the iwi of the Hawke\u2019s Bay area, and we look forward to seeing how this plays out. We sincerely hope that true decision-making and power will be handed to iwi in due course as a result of this bill. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccdafbbb24174a72804b51651de19ed0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccdafbbb24174a72804b51651de19ed0\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker, \u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou aku whanaunga, p\u0113nei i a au n\u014D Te Tai Tokerau, mahara ana au i te w\u0101 tuatahi kua tae mai koutou ki waenganui i a m\u0101tou, w\u0113n\u0101 taku karanga ki a koutou aku whanaunga m\u0113n\u0101 he tuakana, t\u0113ina r\u0101nei \u0113ngari, ko te mea nui he whanaunga, \u0113ngari kei te tautoko i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i k\u014Drerohia e aku tu\u0101kana, aku tu\u0101hine, ki te \u2018hakatau i a koutou i te r\u0101 nei. Kei te tautoko m\u0101tou o roto i a Aotearoa Tuatahi i t\u0113nei pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and acknowledgments to you, my relations\u2014like me, of the North. That is how I regarded you collectively the first time you came amongst us. I referred to you as older or younger siblings\u2014you bet\u2014but also, importantly, as relatives, and I endorse the sentiments expressed by my elder and female colleagues in welcoming you here today. We of New Zealand First support this bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI just want to reiterate that we do support this bill and we recognise that this is part of a settlement process. I also want to say that it is the establishment of a committee comprised of iwi and members of the council. It is a committee. It does not provide for separate seats on the council, which is a different matter altogether. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe Minister for M\u0101ori Development did make reference to a former member of this House, the Hon Mita Ririnui, who introduced\u2014I think it was called\u2014the Bay of Plenty Regional Council (M\u0101ori Constituency Empowering) Bill, which set aside two seats specifically for M\u0101ori. New Zealand First has never supported that approach. One of the reasons is that the example that I have just alluded to\u2014at the time there were actually six M\u0101ori on that council. From the time that that bill became law, that council has had no more than two iwi members on it. What we are saying in New Zealand First is that we are no less than, and we are just as good as, those of the general public. However, I acknowledge the process that has been taken to get to this stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe bill puts into legislation an organisation, a committee, that has already been operating for a number of years. I am glad that the Crown negotiator saw fit to adopt that approach. However, the main point is that iwi have the opportunity to contribute to that whole process affecting the council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI just want to take up the comments made by the honourable member for Napier, Stuart Nash. That is an issue as to whether or not this bill has the durability to overcome any possible amalgamation of the different councils at the moment. I think the proof will be in the pudding, if the people of the Hawke\u2019s Bay agree to that amalgamation. However, from the comments that I have heard when I visited the Hawke\u2019s Bay, people are certainly not in favour of it. However, time will tell whether or not that is going to be an issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI do not have too much to say, other than to say that New Zealand First will certainly be supporting this bill because it gives the opportunity for iwi to participate in the process, albeit in a recommendatory process. So without further ado, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u00222bb08b1616f54c849b0899a00e2848c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bb08b1616f54c849b0899a00e2848c4\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, ng\u0101 mema o te committee o Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Planning, ka nui te mihi atu ki a koutou. Time is of the essence, and my contribution will be a short one. Everything that has been said has been heard. Everything that has been written has been submitted. Everything that can be debated within the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee has been debated and discussed. And all that is left for me to say, with some words borrowed from the great Barry White, is that this has been the committee\u2019s first, it has been the committee\u2019s last, it is the region\u2019s everything. Congratulations. I commend the bill to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00228d5564a6fb1f40758431c68d0ba0e6ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d5564a6fb1f40758431c68d0ba0e6ef\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. It is pretty hard to follow Barry White, but I do have that baritone, that bass, that I can roll out here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI just want to make a short contribution to congratulate the members, the iwi, the hap\u016B, the tangata whenua groups, and the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council on\u2014actually, they have beat us to the punch, for we are just formalising the commitments that were made in the Treaty settlement. So Parliament is actually in catch-up mode. They are way ahead of the game. They have been working as a committee for over 2 years now. So it is really up to Parliament now to try to catch up with the mahi that has been going on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI congratulate all the groups. Can I acknowledge my whanaungas, Ng\u0101ti P\u0101hauwera, Maungaharuru-Tangit\u016B, we had Hineuru this morning, and all the other groups that are represented on the committee. It is an exciting time and I know that they have got a lot of money\u2014mahi that is going on. [Interruption] I hope they are generating some money as well. But whatever the reorganisation or potential hypothetical situations that might be happening with local government reorganisation in the future for the Hawke\u2019s Bay region, this committee is a permanent committee that has been established based on solemn agreements reached with the Crown. So, regardless of what future structures may come into being, this committee will continue. I am very certain of that, based on the commitments that have been entered into with the tangata whenua, with the hap\u016B, and with the iwi of the Hawke\u2019s Bay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI do not want to prolong this debate, but can I just congratulate the groups once again, congratulate everyone who has been involved in this legislation, and I commend it to the House. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022 data-id=\u0022b42b21f7c4cc45fc9c09e952ad6fa9fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b42b21f7c4cc45fc9c09e952ad6fa9fe\u0022\u003ESARAH DOWIE (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Time is of the essence, and I too would like to rise in support of this bill. It is an exciting time for the principles of partnership and kaitiakitanga. With that, I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20150811a819722685234dc7b10f9a0027515734000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 12.49 p.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"