"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002295c1ca3dd76b487a89a1ce67fba27ff2\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 5 APRIL 2016\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c559aa888adf452b8917ebebd89aa585\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 5 APRIL 2016\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f171ee1ba14e410ba8f9d2dba30fe0a5\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022243d3779710c4d589d305514b1c6002c\u0022\u003EUnited States\u2014Delegation, House of Representatives\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00224a1889da81694ec49e095df0b9710720\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a1889da81694ec49e095df0b9710720\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure that members would wish to welcome Congressman Matt Salmond and Congresswoman Cynthia Lummis of the United States House of Representatives, present in the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a4dbb3b1404d4144a03064d7f303fddd\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c3ee4a6af0bf4c95b1caa6f920ad3343\u0022\u003EUnited Nations, Secretary-General\u2014Nomination of Rt Hon Helen Clark\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002231041b682c9d40b7aacf04444ba13b16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231041b682c9d40b7aacf04444ba13b16\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without notice or debate on the nomination of the Rt Hon Helen Clark for the position of Secretary-General of the United Nations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f5ea31beb41499a97fb258ddf447ccf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277274ec34e9847df87d387a849168421\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House express its support for the Rt Hon Helen Clark\u2019s announcement that she will stand for the UN Secretary-General role this year. I note that she has been an exceptional head of the UN Development Programme and brings her experience as a leader of a country, and that she is, and always has been, a trailblazer, following a long line of Kiwi women who have broken through the glass ceiling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224fd9500b6d66427a9507b9f57dc7a853\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002236e29162dff14452a21d0e7b90a80422\u0022\u003EChamber\u2014Visual Aids\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00224b1656eef0ae4f97a46b43b1cc076fcf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b1656eef0ae4f97a46b43b1cc076fcf\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Last week in the House we had some interchange around the use of visual aids by members in which you indicated that a visual aid could not be held up by a member sitting next to another member. I want to draw your attention, having had the chance to consider it now, to Speaker\u2019s ruling 64/1, which was a ruling from 2010 by Speaker Smith in which he indicated that although it was not acceptable for members in general to be holding up visual aids, it was acceptable for a member sitting next to a member speaking to be holding up a visual aid that they were referring to during their contribution. I just want to seek some reassurance from you that in fact that Speaker\u2019s ruling does still apply and that there is not going to be a change in that practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022733c2bc2aa9f424185bb435ee552411a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022733c2bc2aa9f424185bb435ee552411a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have given considerable thought to this matter since last week, and I think the ruling by Speaker Smith is eminently sensible. It seems to be that when a member is concentrating on the question, then it is absolutely appropriate that a bench mate be allowed to assist with the holding of a visual aid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002243b933327ce04686875f25440d4d016a\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d47f691910b4bd99d9a8db90f37e503\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f6ae6dda2abd46d3ba409ec3c97c647d\u0022\u003ETax System\u2014Overseas Trusts\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022519dd20d889c407baa6fde16e4eadb37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022519dd20d889c407baa6fde16e4eadb37\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: How does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e47dd180cfc146c4975adfbbd6c7679d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e47dd180cfc146c4975adfbbd6c7679d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E On foot. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022979876782b6e417497cd97079a29eed6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! We now need to get to the serious business of question time with substantially less interjection from quite a number of prominent people in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea7a3ed15cfe495f839f456ee55d28fc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How can he stand by his statements yesterday that New Zealand \u201Cis not a tax haven\u201D and that we \u201Calso have an extensive disclosure regime\u201D, when specialist law firms on trusts for foreigners point out there is no need for disclosure of identity, or trust registration, or for any such trust accounts to be audited?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d87a5779808c4ccfbbf304fde3f92d33\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Because I am right. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4bd3a1f348f4ca688da5b548f31ea32\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is now the third time I have asked for a little bit of cooperation, and I am going to have to expect it in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c47392edbe7146a885b1aa2f5e3984a2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How can he argue that he is right and that our legal requirements and obligations are both transparent and require disclosure when the Inland Revenue Department is not required to share information with foreign jurisdictions unless that jurisdiction suspects offending and then asks it for information?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b506db222f14afdaa17ead834059db8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Because I am correct and the member is wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a48ac8f329df44fa9719a7db72ae01f2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am not saying that I am right. I am asking him a simple question that does not require that flippant answer, now twice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273d2c5027ec64287b169b24d05bd9bf4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the question started with \u201CHow can he argue that he is right\u201D and the Prime Minister gave an answer that satisfied that. The member might not agree with it but it addressed the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aca46913e5e347bf871154de66fd5f1b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with John Christensen, the executive director of Tax Justice Network, that: \u201CTrusts are used, in many instances, as one of the basic building blocks of these sophisticated tax evasion structures.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289ed71977c0d4f7791e54c5a2e252e59\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not here to be a tax trust expert, but people use trusts for all sorts of reasons. They use them because they want to have their assets held because they may, for instance, be sued, or they may use trusts for all sorts of other reasons. Members of this House use them all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022537b1ca60ba14eb59d2401fb3c9e0fde\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Quoting from this long statement from the Prime Minister: \u201CTax havens are where there is non-disclosure of information. New Zealand has full disclosure of information so all you\u2019ve got is a situation where New Zealand has taken a different view from a lot of jurisdictions and that\u2019s because the way we tax is we tax a settlor, in other words, it\u2019s all about making sure that New Zealanders\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220116d34a0fd74c95bd26da3c2b61dabf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293ae3c2a4ab742fb840cb9ee23a4b826\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014\u201Cpay their fair share of tax.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b85754ccc3794bfc8fb4c43bde2ba270\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I do need a supplementary question, not a long quote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245f1f5653b8d4dab9f2a0d552283a8e0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, having to conclude: \u201Cit\u2019s all about making sure that New Zealanders pay their fair share of tax.\u201D What on earth does that mumbo-jumbo really mean?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bdaf631d77d49c4987ee21f2fbd457d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it sounded a lot better when I said it, but the answer was that we tax a settlor, and the reason we tax settlors is that it is good tax policy. It stops New Zealanders actually creating taxes in all sorts of foreign jurisdictions and avoiding paying tax in their home country called New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c081c95033ef4e2fae597ca460ea39b5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If he is right, why are so many international commentators, and now the Australians, having a go at us for being, in their words, \u201Ca tax haven\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b46a2d9e685495e99cc1c331835aa3d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, people throw around all sorts of comments, but New Zealand is not a tax haven.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da4e5af8913e45b8a226a158df0ea327\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can he assure this House that none of his present or former Ministers\u2014that is, him as Prime Minister\u2014have been and are involved in tax haven activity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae222cebb18043e6b9bb3c6cfe7f5c0f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot speak for any other member, because we have a pecuniary interests list that people have to record, but as I have recorded on my pecuniary interests I have two trusts. One of them has been the long-established trust I have had in my wife\u2019s name, the JP \u0026amp; BI Key Family Trust, and the other is the Aldgate Trust, which was established so it could be a blind trust so that when I became Prime Minister all of my assets could go in there. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca1bcfa5d1e7431ab8e882fb9bc7c62a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! The Hon Amy Adams, I have called for order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa24cba0bc874131a6c642498c991a4f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is that blind trust one with 20/20 vision?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b280d14a87074576a4a41e06d179b672\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have no ministerial responsibility there other than to say that a blind trust was established, as other Prime Ministers have, because it is good practice to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfd18cec40f449f7aa5ede4ffc5ae568\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why since he has become the Prime Minister has there been a threefold increase in offshore trusts operating in New Zealand, were it not for the discovery internationally of just how lax our tax money - laundering disclosure regime is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022551c698f29004c188406278a1bf1a00b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: That is not true. Tax laws around trusts were established in New Zealand in 1988. The disclosure regime change was implemented in 2006. Subsequent to that there have been a number of other things that have been done to improve aspects of trusts. In 2013 the OECD gave a report on New Zealand and fully cleared New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022437ba5a7d84543a29bd403a1910c6398\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If that is the case, why, subsequent to that date he gave as the reason why we should be all relaxed about it, have the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment and Treasury expressed their concern about the existence of tax haven activity in New Zealand, and why should we believe him and not them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022293cb3d5ba86489899ee17edf7df56f2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, in 2013 the OECD gave New Zealand a clean bill of health. What has also happened is that New Zealand continues to work with the OECD about its base minimisation, but the Inland Revenue Department regularly puts up a menu of options that could be looked at as part of its work programme. It was not the No. 1 priority for the Government at the time because, compared with other measures where we could have them working, it would actually be about collecting more tax for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221efd7a29490142459577c79ce5cd711a\u0022\u003ETax System\u2014Overseas Trusts and Disclosure Regime\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7528857c6794e69a85189791e59df86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7528857c6794e69a85189791e59df86\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement that New Zealand is not a tax haven because \u201CNew Zealand has full disclosure of information\u201D, given Cone Marshall, a law firm specialising in establishing trusts for foreigners, says \u201CThe identity of the settlor need not be disclosed and the trust deed is not registered with any tax or Government authority\u201D and \u201CThere is no obligation to file any trust accounts with any person or institution or to have such accounts audited\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022554e69c4105243ce883bd3a99e0ccdcc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I call the right honourable Prime Minister, my office has been advised that this answer may well be longer than normal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002264f87d1feb2e408495b4c8abc0028216\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264f87d1feb2e408495b4c8abc0028216\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, because there is more than one step in the disclosure process. Initially, a New Zealand resident trustee must submit a foreign trust disclosure form, an IR607, which simply records the name of the trust and the trustee\u2019s contact details. However, the trustee must also keep detailed financial and other records, including the trust deed; details of settlements and distributions, including the recipient\u2019s name and address; details of the trust\u2019s assets and liabilities; the identities of the settlors and the beneficiaries of the trust; and money that the trust receives and spends. The Inland Revenue Department can get this kind of information and will give it to the tax authorities in any other country if requested under a relevant tax agreement, or proactively if that country wishes. I am advised by the Inland Revenue Department that New Zealand has always been able to comply with these sorts of information requests from treaty partners. This is certainly full disclosure of information. The income in these trusts is quite rightly outside our tax base. It is foreign income earned by foreigners. It is up to other tax authorities around the world to enforce their own tax laws on this income and on their own residents. We can help them do that by providing detailed information to them on request about trusts that are administered from New Zealand. I make the second point, which is that we automatically disclose that information to Australia. It is the one jurisdiction that has asked us; no other jurisdiction has. These disclosure regimes, which by any definition are broad and deep, were the ones passed by the Labour Government in 2006. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221587017a283044e4aef25dc2fe77a57c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221498c25b3f094f359a53f5b575b923a3\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Is he seriously telling the House that the only obligation that a foreign trust is obliged to make, which is completion of an IR706 form and nothing else, constitutes a full disclosure regime for this type of vehicle?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc91e332788c4740a00ab298b9b42a7d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: For a start off, it is an IR607 form, not an IR706 form. And, secondly, as I pointed out in the answer, which was very long and very detailed, that is but the starting point, which requires them to keep hugely detailed information of what is in there and report that when required. Those are the rules that Labour thought were right when it passed this disclosure in 2006. If the member is now telling us that Labour got it wrong, he should get on his feet and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fa86f2f68f841c4aad6725148fca4f5\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Why has he failed to heed the warnings from the New Zealand Law Commission, the Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand, the OECD, and the Inland Revenue Department that New Zealand\u2019s weak offshore tax laws allow wealthy foreigners to subvert laws and dodge taxes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d3e91f207c24b11998c862ecee77de9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am prepared to accept that I made one mistake, and that is relying on Labour. It passed the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283180e713bdc4bd59c3ed2d2f0d73e2d\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Can he guarantee that no offshore trusts registered in New Zealand are being used to hide illegally obtained assets or dodge tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256acec26439f4a7da097760623f48df8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No Prime Minister can give that assurance any more than Helen Clark could have when this law was passed, no doubt with the support of David Parker, in 2006. What is quite clear is that New Zealand gives all of that information not only to Australia but to any jurisdiction that asks for it. We have been able to comply with every jurisdiction that has asked. I also note that we have 40 double tax agreements and 11 information-sharing agreements, one of which includes Malta.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022563b03f11aa04d2e9fbeb0ce27017c62\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: What effect does he think it has on New Zealand\u2019s reputation when we are viewed as a tax haven harbouring billions of dollars, and his only reaction is to boast that it earns us $24 million a year in lawyers\u2019 fees and accountants\u2019 fees?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f286569de0f4839802ce6a097fcc8bd\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand is not a tax haven. Tax havens do not have the disclosure regimes that New Zealand has. It is as simple as this: if it is such a bad idea, it was Labour in 1988 that passed the trust legislation, it was Labour in 2006 that had\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f4c03d73193453e80389f71ff8043e9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bca8a4df5aba41c0893ab57d6856341e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the disclosure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222921111045c54e89aa2e78f76381c688\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! When I rise to my feet, it requires the Prime Minister to cease his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d96de1e75d834aaf96e2a11b398ea064\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. For countless answers now the Prime Minister has departed from doing his job of answering the question, and attacked another political party for a law that is 10 years old, and 7 years after he got the job. Please ask him to act responsibly and answer the questions he is being asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278a5908db8e64f82b61929a6237d7b05\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Prime Minister addressed the question almost immediately, and then, because he was then responding to interjections, which were not\u2014[Interruption] Order! Because the Prime Minister was then responding to interjections, it is inevitable that some politics will enter into the argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3913c16c62b482fb392201bfd9eaee3\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: How does he expect to go to international forums and stop multinational corporations dodging their New Zealand tax, when he is letting foreign tax-dodgers use New Zealand as a tax haven?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225233c1ee59924425a487ed2951d7cfed\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I believe the latter part of the question from the member to be wrong. Secondly, in all of the international forums that I have been in, in the nearly 8 years that I have been Prime Minister, no one has ever raised this issue with me. I am not aware of them ever raising it with a Minister of Revenue, and, as I said in 2013, New Zealand was given a clean bill of health by the OECD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c23236e2bbc0404bb5957410802ef990\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Does he acknowledge that the Inland Revenue Department said in 2013 that \u201Cour foreign trust rules continue to attract criticism, including claims that New Zealand is now a tax haven in respect of trusts.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293d1c593c0434c71bb94f0d896dfd7d3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have not seen the particular quote, but, as I said earlier, the Inland Revenue Department has come up with a whole range of things it wants on the work programme, and I would have thought the most important thing was making sure that New Zealanders actually pay their fair share of tax, and that has been the priority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022298667884bed4505ad4c68e193a2e0c4\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Is he disagreeing with Inland Revenue Department\u2019s advice in 2013 that the way forward is to strengthen our disclosure and reporting requirements with New Zealand foreign trusts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022042c22497cc344e780898ffa31b39929\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: What the Government is doing is working with the OECD on its base erosion programmes. It is quite happy to take advice and suggestions from others and, over time, there may be arguments about things we could strengthen. But if you look at what the requirements are under IR607, they are extremely broad and deep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffee16c378004b12a49a0ead124841b8\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: So is he opposed to greater transparency for New Zealand foreign trusts, when greater transparency will only hurt people using foreign trusts for illegitimate purposes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238e1364b6ec046009d0124e64f0d0681\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Clearly not, because we have the ultimate in disclosure when it comes to Australia, because we give it full disclosure without even making reference to the Australians, because they ask for it. We would do it for any other jurisdiction that asked us to do that. If any country wants to come to New Zealand and have the same requirements as Australia has asked us for, we will provide it with all that information. As I said in my answer to the primary question, which was quite long, New Zealand actually collates a great deal of information and it shares it with every jurisdiction that asks us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fb105e7af944d90b8e68478d01dc0d1\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: So would the Prime Minister agree with me that for foreign trusts with nothing to hide, they should have nothing to fear from greater transparency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240f43b30610345b785628e2ad659c43d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: In the end, if a foreign trust is established in New Zealand, it is really important that it does understand that we have a full disclosure regime. It is for it to assess that. We are quite different from the sorts of places that are tax havens, where they do not have disclosure regimes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e1ca0dac7e649d994e56ee52158e7ad\u0022\u003EJames Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to introduce a member\u2019s bill in my name that would end the secrecy around foreign trusts in New Zealand by imposing a registration and disclosure scheme on foreign trusts, to be set down as members\u2019 order of the day No. 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a92c9ae35a04badb5e6c7e58d9eaa87\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258e028b27c894c1aad0899c2ca4dee7a\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: How proud is the Prime Minister of the company he is now keeping when the Panama Papers lump New Zealand in with such auspicious company as Belize, the Seychelles, and Costa Rica in the list of 21 tax havens?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db5794f96b974acdbfe70a3bf40b8990\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think New Zealand can stand quite proudly on the regime that it runs here in terms of disclosure. I am sad that the member is running a country mile from what his colleagues around him did, but no wonder they are quiet as\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b6702fb5da1457eb5536e2c43ab9bb0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That answer will not help the order of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e59c427792d74c6faceb8c9709a89c70\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Does he not see, when faced with the biggest tax-dodging scandal in history and when New Zealand is named internationally now as a tax haven, and his only response is to side with the mega-rich tax dodgers rather than cleaning it up under the law, that his moral compass is completely broken?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb478771112c40bcaedadbe6389000eb\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The outrage would be a little bit better if the answer was not actually correct, and I will read it to the member again because he clearly did not hear it the first time. Initially, a New Zealand resident trustee must submit a foreign trust disclosure form, an IR607, which simply records the name of the trust and the trustee\u2019s contact details. However, the trustee must keep detailed financial and other records, including the trust deed; details of settlements and distributions, including the recipient\u2019s name and address; details of the trust\u2019s assets and liabilities; the identity of the settlors and the beneficiaries of the trust; and money that the trust receives and spends. If that is not full disclosure when it is given in totality to any jurisdiction that asks for it, I do not know what is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223509e6b7107f45d6b85cceb7e0e38038\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document. It is the OECD 2013 report on New Zealand tax compliance, which makes criticisms of our foreign tax regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255e454b2550c4b67890be40e30defef0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I put the leave, I just want to check. Is it freely available on the OECD website?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022540258eef85f403b819ea0aca89bd0d7\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot confirm that. It has been supplied to me in hard copy only.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b24b66f311c642cb9e31c225998fc344\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On the basis that it cannot be confirmed, I will put the leave and the House can decide. Leave is sought to table that particular 2013 OECD report. Is there any objection? There is not. It can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228347dfc93d544651a4240736ea385258\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table a combined Inland Revenue Department and Treasury paper, entitled Tax Policy Report: Taxation of Multinationals, dated 15 August 2013, in which the department says: \u201CTo protect our international reputation, it may be necessary to strengthen our regulatory framework for disclosure and record-keeping.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb3f65c559424f488ff02548a96c92f5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that particular Treasury and Inland Revenue Department report. Is there any objection? There is objection. [Interruption] Order! I have put the leave. Any member has the right to object.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002234bc165d1efb43bb96abaf718b6b6e40\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Export Sector Performance and Household Savings and Debt\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022bea9a8c2983443538bc055c3453b483c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bea9a8c2983443538bc055c3453b483c\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received showing total New Zealand exports are growing, despite the dairy downturn?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8d5c200109c4a1e95919decdf9746b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8d5c200109c4a1e95919decdf9746b0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Reports of continued export growth and diversification. Statistics New Zealand reports that in 2015 total exports rose by $1.9 billion, supported by a $2.3 billion increase in spending by international visitors, and an increase of $895 million in exports of meat products. Partly offsetting this was a $3 billion fall in dairy exports. Other exports are also growing. Annual beef exports are up a third in the last year; international education is now worth $3.1 billion in 2015, supporting 30,000 jobs; and wine exports are now worth $1.5 billion, up 14 percent in the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226acec0877b2740328551e698a3798e1b\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he received showing improvement in the net international investment position, supported, in part, by growing exports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022205a23cbe611472e870e9e6179c9b15b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The net international investment position measures New Zealand\u2019s total level of indebtedness to the rest of the world\u2014that is, Government, households, and the private sector. Statistics New Zealand reports this is now 61.4 percent of GDP, which is a considerable improvement from the peak in early 2009 when it reached 84 percent of GDP. Net external debt is now 55 percent of GDP, down from a peak of 83 percent in 2008. We are moving steadily in the right direction of reducing New Zealand\u2019s indebtedness to the rest of the world. The Government is supporting further improvements by staying on top of spending and remaining on track to pay down debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281fb4d588ec942a68beb082025b80489\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: How are higher household savings helping to support resilience in the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d317916f9950469fb7b29ed3cad51646\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Since the global financial crisis, New Zealand households are saving more, probably because they were a bit frightened by the prospect of financial meltdown then. This is reflected, in part, through higher bank deposits. The latest figures from the Reserve Bank show household deposits in banks totalled $152 billion in February 2016. That is up over 10 percent in the last year, and growth in deposits has been 7.8 percent per year since 2009. In fact, household deposits in banks have doubled in just 8\u00BD years, since August 2007. It means many householders will be better placed to manage through uncertainty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a585e74fe3844438ac636fe6aa8430f3\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: What recent reports has he seen on trends in household debt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad68678e08764d3c812b367661a190d9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Interesting trends. Last week the Reserve Bank reported home mortgage lending increased 7.9 percent from the year previous to a total of $214 billion. This growth rate compares with an annual growth rate of 4.8 percent a year earlier. So it has picked up. Overall household debt to disposable income reached 162 percent, which is high by international standards. However, the ratio of household debt servicing is down because of lower interest rates. So debt levels are higher, but the cost of servicing that debt has dropped, from 9.5 percent of disposable income to 9.1 percent of disposable income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227558301ea2114d72bb6d80aea7cd7cd2\u0022\u003EHousing Market, Auckland\u2014Affordability\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d517df490973473e8a21c11d658abfbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d517df490973473e8a21c11d658abfbb\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement from 2013 that if Auckland prices continue at the same rate the bubble would burst and \u201Cyou would leave a lot of potentially first home buyers with very large loans and an over-valued property and effectively negative equity where they owe more than the property\u2019s actually worth\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3f60815fdf84f5a8cc52fd752cfeaa4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3f60815fdf84f5a8cc52fd752cfeaa4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by my actual statement, which was \u201CIf we continued to leave the housing market completely unchecked in Auckland and it continued to go up at the rate it\u2019s going up, then eventually that would be a bubble that would have to burst.\u201D I am pleased to report that since then there have been a number of important steps to increase housing supply and assist first-home buyers. Consents in the city are the highest in more than 11 years, interest rates remain very low, and we are supporting more home buyers into their first home. We are seeing some early signs that Auckland house price increases could be moderating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8a0170b97cc43d89ff587bf0b0096b1\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that since he made that statement Auckland house prices have gone up nearly $300,000, leaving first-home buyers more indebted than ever?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267ecf2dd303743a79408c3e61b051973\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I made that statement in 2013, I think, so it sounds like a substantial increase, but in the time that we have been in Government\u2014or the last few years, in fact, since that period of time\u2014we have named and set up 120 special housing areas. There have been 24,000 houses and sections consented in the first 2 years of the housing accord. We are reforming the Resource Management Act, which we are more than happy to get Labour\u2019s support for, if it wants to. An extra 80,000 new homes are forecast to be built in Auckland in 6 years, in 2020. Interestingly, as well, Massey University\u2019s Home Affordability Report of today showed that the Auckland property market became more affordable over the past quarter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feb92fd28b99433fb08f8c1b00546bba\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: How does he expect first-home buyers to realise the Kiwi Dream of homeownership when a standard deposit on an Auckland home has nearly doubled, from $100,000 to $185,000, since he became Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1f70bc86ba148d49e945c06f4d6ab2a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, as the member knows, it is possible for banks to lend over the loan-to-value ratio for a certain percentage of the loans they make. Secondly, the Government has introduced KiwiSaver HomeStart, which, as we know, for a significant number of New Zealanders, is now assisting them in owning their own homes. We also know that interest rates\u2014as opposed to under the previous Labour Government, when they were high and expensive\u2014have been dropping dramatically under a National-led Government. The prudent and good economic management of this Government has allowed New Zealanders to enjoy lower interest rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289ec3141831c46f5b01d362fb4939801\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: How does he expect first-home buyers to realise the Kiwi Dream of homeownership when servicing the mortgage on a lower-end home costs almost half their income, nearly 10 percent more of their income than in December 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022681d118199684467a2fd593eb7deffd2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I just do not get all of the relevant information, but if one looks at interests rates\u2014which were up at 8, 9, and 10 percent when Labour was in office, and are now significantly lower\u2014what we do know is that the capacity to service a house is actually the lowest it has been in New Zealand in about 50 or 60 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdfa4c4063cc42aca979009f163254d5\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Is Fran O\u2019Sullivan correct when she says about him\u2014that is, the Prime Minister\u2014that \u201CHe is frankly unapologetic about the massive increase in Auckland residential property values, which has resulted in many established Aucklanders becoming relatively rich, but younger people being locked out of the market.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d9c02397c464a2c8512718e5a865ec9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: One learns, when one has been in the job long enough, that columnists will make their own assessments and write their own comments all the time. I have read some stuff about Andrew Little that, frankly, I find a bit disturbing\u2014but it is OK. If the member wants to say that every columnist who writes every column is right in what they say, it is going to be a very interesting proposition to stand by.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a050529aabb4299b5b5543142928a3f\u0022\u003EFreshwater Management\u2014Regional Councils\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022 data-id=\u0022288c9d2d040045f8ae487a73f29ce415\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022288c9d2d040045f8ae487a73f29ce415\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: What steps is he taking to ensure that regional councils are effectively implementing the objectives of their regional resource management plans related to the protection of water quality from further degradation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00220c956a652c30429f858ed035735b9b9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c956a652c30429f858ed035735b9b9a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is progressively strengthening the requirement on all regional councils to better protect our water resources. Prior to 2009 the Government set no minimum standards or requirements, and just left it all to the regional councils. The three significant steps that we have taken as a Government are requiring compulsory metering in 2010; the National Policy Statement on Freshwater Quality, which requires it to be maintained or improved; and committing over $300 million in clean-ups. I am also currently consulting on further strengthening the national requirements, including new national rules on excluding stock from rivers and lakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4fd378a36e44455ae2856e61c992e85\u0022\u003EMarama Fox\u003C/span\u003E: Given that Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu had to spend more than $100,000 to mount its appeal in the Environment Court to protect environmental standards, what steps is he taking to ensure that other iwi and community groups will not have to spend those amounts of money to ensure regional councils will improve water quality over time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210858d1aad934df1b0d0e9f2d161f373\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The national policy statement introduced by this Government is having a positive effect. Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu succeeded in the Environment Court only because it was able to attribute to the national policy statement the requirement to maintain and improve water quality. A further measure that is going to help iwi to drive improvements in water quality are the measures that the M\u0101ori Party has advocated in the Resource Legislation Amendment Bill, which ensures a stronger voice in making sure that we look after New Zealand\u2019s precious freshwater resource. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aee88809a3b941dcbc5da33a4f07dd74\u0022\u003EMarama Fox\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council argues that it is impossible to achieve no degradation through the groundwater quality of the Heretaunga Plains and the Ruataniwha Plains aquifer system, how will he keep the council honest to ensure it complies and gives effect to the Environment Court\u2019s order to maintain and improve water quality?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbe665c9c92543f9a5b79bf30a2e38b2\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council, as with a number of other regional councils, does have the problem of long hydrological cycles where some pollution that has occurred over 30 or 40 years will take some time to work through the system, but that does not take away our responsibility, and this Government\u2019s role, to ensure that we set those strong long-term targets. A further measure that we are taking to strengthen that is the Environment Reporting Act, which we passed last year, with the support of the M\u0101ori Party, which for the first time will require regional councils to openly disclose exactly what their water quality is and for it to be independently audited. That will be published for the first time in New Zealand in April next year. I am also undertaking a review of the national policy statement and its implementation by regional councils, and I am open-minded about constructive suggestions to further strengthen it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c6c7393951b941fda318139d1d720706\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Rural Communities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00229cfa08d297554cb5bac1f0a9b1cdcb23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cfa08d297554cb5bac1f0a9b1cdcb23\u0022\u003ESCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What initiatives has the Government put in place to support health services in rural communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1f5ab79489f4c1e831d25d7aa29f94a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1f5ab79489f4c1e831d25d7aa29f94a\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E We know that it is a difficult time for many farmers, and supporting the regions is a key focus for the Government. A good example is the $500,000 that we announced last year to support rural mental health. As a result of that money we have recruited and trained 60 additional rural support trust facilitators, appointed 12 regional mental health clinical champions and a medical director to help rural support trust clients in accessing support, and held 40 workshops run by Rural Health Alliance Aotearoa New Zealand to raise awareness of suicide prevention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226baa9e9fefae4b96814b910e5ca5e459\u0022\u003EScott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to encourage health professionals to work in rural areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c116909c1e95410399d2f6dd786753c7\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government supports a number of workforce initiatives to ensure that New Zealanders living in the regions have access to the services they need. The Voluntary Bonding Scheme incentivises new graduate doctors, midwives, nurses, dentists, and sonographers to work in hard-to-staff communities. To date, over 1,000 health professionals have been funded through the scheme and just over $23 million has been paid out to eligible participants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223089eac85b234505a682fe18b266891d\u0022\u003EScott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: How has the Government supported health services in the Coromandel by improving access to specialist care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dd453e222e7454fbdd99b6008758377\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: The Coromandel is part of the Waikato District Health Board catchment area. Forty-nine thousand Waikato patients received a medical or surgical first specialist assessment in 2015, compared with 39,000 in 2009. That is a 26 percent increase and a record for the region. The answer to increasing demand is to do more, and that is supported by the $257 million funding increase that the Waikato District Health Board has received over the last 7 years. That includes $44 million of new money for this year, taking the Waikato District Health Board\u2019s total funding to $1.1 billion for 2015-16. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002208558ca48a3749c8be5ad9b7935ba885\u0022\u003ETax System\u2014Overseas Trusts and Disclosure Regime\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea7dabcb72eb4c859637985d323501f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea7dabcb72eb4c859637985d323501f4\u0022\u003EJULIE ANNE GENTER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement that \u201CNew Zealand has full disclosure of information\u201D with respect to allegations of New Zealand being a tax haven?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f36c12d4d30f490599455f0fabdea8a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f36c12d4d30f490599455f0fabdea8a2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, as I said in answer to question No. 2, the Inland Revenue Department (IRD) gets information on foreign trusts and gives it to tax authorities in other countries if requested under a relevant tax agreement. Tax havens, on the other hand, are characterised by financial secrecy, so it is ridiculous to suggest that New Zealand is a tax haven. We have a strong tax treaty and information exchange network that helps to discover and prevent tax avoidance through exchanging information between tax jurisdictions. New Zealand has also been a very active participant in the OECD and G20 work to combat tax avoidance. We continue to be a strong voice in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219c27bae86d14898a1c225641bb4f87b\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: How does an overseas tax department access all of that information if it does not know the name of the foreign trust registered here or the trustee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b68d1116c9d4a40833a77754a80119a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It asks for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eacca526edbc4e81b648767c9495d0b8\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Perhaps I did not clarify my question. [Interruption] I meant how do they ask for it if they do not know their name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223166d78b10b344ab9a788092020d369a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am going to invite the member to ask her question again. I could not hear the question because of the level of interjection that was occurring across the Chamber. Can we start again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a2d3a1fef2e48f2923a429e94534b80\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. How does an overseas tax department ask us for that information if it does not know the name of the foreign trust registered here or the trustee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273003ddf64634d6ca32ba846b703e9f6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It depends on the country. In the case of Australia, that information is automatically given to it, as it is in some other cases. Secondly, each country will have a different regime, and I am not an expert in them but many of those countries will ask for trusts to be registered, listed, and named so that they can get disclosure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228541d926cc4e49babd44f4c55c3ba8a8\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Have there been any changes to the rules since the IRD warned his Government in 2013 that \u201Cthere was a risk to New Zealand\u2019s reputation\u201D because of limited disclosure requirements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a71be68d2cc414c86b2d53eb7dc95f2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member would have to direct that question to the Minister responsible for inland revenue. They are the ones who have done all the work with the OECD on the base evasion programme. But, as we know, things like factor and anti - money-laundering legislation have been changing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a627e7a755dd4e0d9163a27c41adfbfa\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an email dated 24 March 2016 from the IRD that states that it has not progressed any reform in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d367ecd5d944a6a84df5050afd7f802\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In view of the answer given, I will put the leave. Leave is sought to table that particular email. Is there any objection? [Interruption] Order! Is there objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208f65a942f0b4d2c941dee03335b4d65\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile his statement that New Zealand has full disclosure with the Auckland-based Equity Trust International website, which advertises its services in the following way: \u201Cin New Zealand law a properly structured trust is unbreakable which makes New Zealand at a par with jurisdictions like the Cook Islands but without the stigma of offshore. \u2026 This is the secret that wealthy families have been using for years \u2026\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b12fe3466ed240c1ab5483394c1d4aeb\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Lots of companies and organisations come out with slogans. I remember in 1999 the Labour Party slogan was \u201CFor a kinder, more caring New Zealand\u201D. They were the days before they wanted to throw out Chinese chefs and name Chinese people as bad people in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229329351ff3d24b9385bfcf58f3f53753\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: So is Covisory Partners in Auckland wrong when it wrote in a paper entitled New Zealand A Tax Haven for Foreign Trusts that our foreign trust tax advantages \u201Cmake New Zealand a great alternative to various tax havens which have negative inherent stigma attached to them.\u201D; and is he concerned that that negative stigma is now getting attached to us?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac6a1307a62745c09360aa467d24b485\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: They are patently wrong if they are Australian, and they may well be wrong if they are from any other country that has asked for that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214e3a5e4cde14d71b6e7291d52b657ad\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Will his Government beef up the rules around foreign trusts in New Zealand by adopting the member\u2019s bill that my colleague James Shaw tried to table earlier; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3ed08783cab4604b8cd8fb80ffa8de6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is not opposed to making changes and we will continue to work with the OECD on base erosion and the like. But if the member really thinks that we are going to adopt their member\u2019s bill that wants to actually name taxpayers\u2019 IRD numbers, for instance, the member has got to be barking mad if she thinks that information should be in the public domain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225237274e57b842ba9063f51182550f84\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That insult was personal and unnecessary, and I ask that he be required to withdraw and apologise for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c34334487a454531a71f2b62a83c5a81\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On this occasion\u2014[Interruption] Order! I do not agree with the member. When I consider the tone and the length of the question, it was a highly political question that was asked. [Interruption] Whilst I am on my feet, if I can identify any interjector I will have no hesitation in asking that person to leave. I considered it carefully. I can understand the member may be a little bit upset. It is an expression I have heard used quite frequently by the Prime Minister\u2014not in this House\u2014but I do not think it is a matter for requiring the Prime Minister to withdraw, unless the member was to stand to her feet and say she was personally offended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0802503538b491aa9946c142e11941c\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b7f34f544dc4dd1bbb860684fdba07a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just before the member starts, the same rules apply to this point of order. I want to hear it without interjection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bd41ac34f3943beb0eb76889edd619d\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: In the prior supplementary question you allowed the Prime Minister to raise irrelevant matters relating to the immigration policy of the Labour Party. If you want to keep order in this House you have to enforce the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3644e23b8194c009e5adbd9da42f8ef\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227250ee11bb664cbabda9d984be3676ae\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear from the Hon Gerry Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9cfac3960a847909023ddfcc4be1610\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I do not want to prolong things, but when a question is asked and there is a theoretical or a hypothetical statement put, it is not unreasonable for the Prime Minister to say: \u201CWell, here was a statement made by a political grouping and look what was achieved.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f6fe4afc08449ca81abd4a7b8556db7\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205252767b6d243b9abd8e42cca80f64f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear from the Hon David Parker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022887fa1d16b5345f8b0132f0cde7adc07\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: That is not correct. You cannot raise irrelevant matter relating to another question that attacks another party on a subject matter that is not even the subject of the question. The Leader of the House is just wrong. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b09f6d65a28457a9808c33829b1b608\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We will have only one at a time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ce539e4041447a0b67ef78acff8d856\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. There are clear rules on innuendo and epithets. If you were saying that some member has to get up and protest himself or herself otherwise you will not take redress, it suggests that that member now suffers the embarrassment of repeating the offence. Frankly, he might say it outside the House but he surely should not be allowed to say it inside the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290721b256665460581b86d1934419560\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure what the point of order that the member has just raised in relation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239d97cbe777a42869458bfbcfdc143f2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will repeat it for you again slowly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd7d27da5ca44c29a210936ed8565242\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Very slowly\u2014and refer to the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a36da0ac56864f32954c507f05c1164b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: It is that the phrase \u201Cbarking mad\u201D is an epithet, an innuendo, and it should not be acceptable in this House. No one should have to tolerate having to get up and put it right and repeat the offence. Have you got that part clear?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cbf795d56b34943a0342ca997ea8ba1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No we are getting to the stage where this has gone on quite long enough. As I repeated earlier, it is a remark\u2014I think the Rt Hon Winston Peters makes a reasonable point, but if the member Julie Anne Genter is offended by the remark, she should stand to her feet and say so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022403a3ee6f470475b92ff79868a6c78a1\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am not offended; I am more disappointed that the Prime Minister will not answer a reasonable question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b07a73e01cd64ee9bbeba923b7d194c0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And that certainly is not a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b99dd7a2b44332a7dce6b1b608976f\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7ad65be0fb8443e89e9c74717495278\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have ruled on this matter. If it is a fresh point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d13a285723644f494134dc2f5a2af39\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a fresh point of order. In your earlier ruling you made it clear that a political question would get a political answer. I wonder whether you would consider differentiating between a political answer and simply an insulting answer, because I think that is an important distinction to make: one that simply hurls insults at the member asking the question versus one that is giving a political answer that is a legitimate exchange.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203d4b3f2a44042259cc84b46c4700920\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a totally new point of order. The ruling that you have just given, could I ask you to possibly reflect? It appears that you have just now countered completely a previous ruling you gave with reference to members taking offence. Previously, you have sat members down for taking personal offence and said that it is not whether the member is personally offended; it is whether you, the Speaker, determine that for the House as a whole this statement was offensive. Now you are saying that we can stand up and take personal offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dc962c2ee884f3f927ac98edd3212a9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I gather the point. I will decide, and in this case I did not think it was particularly offensive, so I decided not to do anything about it. As has already been well and truly stated now, I invited the member\u2014if she was particularly offended, then I would reconsider the matter. The member said that she was not offended. So the matter is now resolved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e055a35b7734c6b810ef3d51d288895\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c48cb0e42fb54b8dad839fe69d7f05d2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before you ask\u2014we have spent quite a lot of time on this\u2014is this a fresh point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd68a0a69b034815994f70e80cb2ad28\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: It is. It seems to me the problem is that I could now stand and the House would not be offended by me calling you barking mad. That cannot be the standard of this House, because I should not be able to make that epithet\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6cf25c3b3964ac2bda8d8270a9f7561\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. [Interruption] Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cde5d5b775a447e9a5e75f857212d834\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230158ff6b9ef4bb490953972be53e78c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear from the Hon Gerry Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022737edfa4686543c28b57cf6ce46ec468\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think if you have a look later at the Hansard transcript of this and the later television replay, which I know you watch every evening with some interest, you will find that there was no specific insult. There was a hypothetical, preceded with the word that indicates that by saying \u201Cif\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221b97d559ce34655a134c2cc63579325\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! As I said, we have spent enough time on this matter. When I took it from the Hon David Parker that it was a fresh point of order, it seemed to me we were just relitigating territory that we had already been through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227da4f466c4d644ba8b5e0a19fb14b50c\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e91f192ca8ef46b7b3dc6514d12b9036\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will just check\u2014we have spent a lot of time on this\u2014whether it is a completely fresh point of order, but if it is in any way canvassing where we have been in the last 5 or 10 minutes, I will be asking\u2014[Interruption] Order! I have ruled. There is no need to give me any further help. The member can come and see me later if he wants to, but I do not need to prolong this debate. Is it a fresh point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee288074d52e448d9685b4efdbe8ac3d\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is clarification\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd7eaa249edb4561b087e4b7baddddd4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! Would the member just resume his seat. I want to just make it absolutely clear, because if the member is raising a fresh point of order I am happy to hear it, but if we are in any way relitigating the territory we have covered now for a considerable length of time, I will have no hesitation to ask the member to leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213f6c292152c4b378eee3964dc4cf646\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a fresh point of order regarding Standing Order 386(2)(c). Can you confirm that that applies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4c9708c3afa4f4394cebe5193c33df8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly the point that was raised by the Hon David Parker about 10 minutes ago. [Interruption] No. Order! We have spent quite\u2014supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e32a9cfd9ee4567b27cd97b76d29832\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Has the Prime Minister seen any reports on how others might attempt to change the foreign trust disclosure rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc8645023b814d53bb4e68fe2b53559a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have. I have seen a recommendation from another political party that says that the IRD should disclose personal information, including passport numbers and people\u2019s IRD numbers. This is from a political party that says that it believes in privacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f90861b1572240d2bdd9c4a2c1a4506a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Could I ask you what happened to the rule that the Ministers and the Prime Minister cannot spend their time referring to another party\u2019s policy? The reason we have question time is to ask the executive as to what\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216d2b1223dfb4eeab79d593ae7985ce4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] I do not need any assistance. The question was a legitimate question, asking about other reports. I was listening very, very carefully to see whether it went into a territory of attacking another political party. Up until the time the member got to his feet and took a point of order, it certainly did not do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251ff59d9f7d34a5aa32c7e6743a18881\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister considered the possibility that wholesale public disclosure of trust details might endanger people at risk of persecution, extortion, and oppression under repressive regimes overseas\u2014i.e., the type of people the Green Party used to stick up for? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224489e09593a247e5b19faff93933be25\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No. That is a question that was in order until the last part of it. I now rule it out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7aa34a9e9894ae295ffa12ab3c648a7\u0022\u003EWorkplace Health and Safety\u2014Legislative Changes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022dec8486258a5429b8534c64843d33a6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dec8486258a5429b8534c64843d33a6a\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: What changes were made yesterday to modernise New Zealand\u2019s health and safety law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022261b82d582f64170b446188dcd498545\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022261b82d582f64170b446188dcd498545\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday saw the first major legislative reform of workplace health and safety laws in 20 years come into force to help New Zealand achieve the goal of reducing workplace death and injuries by 25 percent by 2020. These changes modernise our approach to health and safety by ensuring that everyone, from company directors to casual labourers, has health and safety responsibilities that reflect their ability to influence or control work. They create the right legal framework. It is now over to every Kiwi, from chief executive officers to the newest employees, to work together to ensure that they all go home safely at the end of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e4e1e87d88b41059d06e175a382ca0f\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Will these changes adversely impact on small and medium businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e08f46eb7c2541f2af9d45ddeb8ed5ea\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: No. The Act strikes a balance between ensuring workplaces are safe and not imposing unnecessary red tape on businesses. The new Act requires all businesses to target risks and eliminate or mitigate them. Low-risk businesses can take a proportionate response, but they will be expected to encourage all staff to participate actively in health and safety to achieve those goals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c8553e798f97461dba19b83f85be0c0c\u0022\u003ETax Avoidance\u2014Multinational Enterprises\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022a12ae75f99b74bdeb50813040f936878\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a12ae75f99b74bdeb50813040f936878\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Revenue: Has he sought advice from the Treasury on the impact of multinational company tax avoidance on the Government\u2019s fiscal position; if so, what was the advice he received?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fff62d49c0b842d9b92ed4eb423c8cd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fff62d49c0b842d9b92ed4eb423c8cd6\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E As I explained to the House during question time last week, the Inland Revenue Department (IRD) does not distinguish on the basis of whether companies are multinational or not. Treasury and the IRD do provide estimates of revenue gains from specific policy initiatives\u2014for example, GST on online services and intangibles. Tax avoidance, where companies are not paying what they legally owe, is cracked down on. I expect all companies to pay the correct amount of tax on their net taxable income regardless of where they are owned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e670c2ea391c4c2583f7e8128321307c\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question asked the Minister whether he had sought advice. He offered some views about what Treasury and the IRD might or might not do, but he did not answer that part of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266f163fbef574bae8a4d6bca0c50db5d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On this occasion I do not believe that answer has adequately addressed the question. It was an attempt to answer it, and the Minister is responsible for his answer. The way forward is to allow the member two extra supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee22dd93895a4b199cbc8c92b6391adc\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Has he sought advice from Treasury on the quantum of multinational company tax avoidance and its impact on the fiscal position of the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e71382cef10a486b814475660c6c3f10\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: The question cannot be answered in the way the member asks. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e57718fd7e04cf395b77cef97babcb0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The question has been asked. It does not require a commentary now as the answer is being given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e8b8db2c895446bade2e3341016e0c2\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: It would require the IRD to make an assessment of a fact that it does not know. It is a quantum question to something that is not known. What I expect is that it works diligently to ensure that all organisations and individuals pay their fair share of tax, and I am satisfied it is doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239c0d86fb5c44849af58268c00980dda\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I will do it slowly: has he sought advice from Treasury on the quantum of multinational tax avoidance and its impact on the Government\u2019s fiscal position?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e39be446df34e029ad9452d15c8c836\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Slowly\u2014no, because asking such a question would be a ridiculous waste of the IRD\u2019s time, because you would be asking it to chase its tail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4d6d646f06d4af6b4f6425e2bcd8803\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: How is it responsible for the Government to have not asked its chief financial advisers to quantify the impact of multinational tax avoidance on its overall fiscal position when estimates range into the multibillion-dollar area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263cd6dd87fa3496aa13fe345fb2d0d34\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Estimates are just that. They are fingers in the air based on people\u2019s value judgments about what organisations that have certain turnovers in this country should be paying on tax, and I cannot remind that party often enough\u2014they do not seem to get it. New Zealand entities do not pay tax on their gross revenue. They pay it on their net taxable income, and I am satisfied that that is what they are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fa77f84254b4041a1612976adacae25\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: How does he defend his failure to even quantify the scale of multinational tax avoidance to a small-business owner who is working hard, doing the right thing, and paying their fair share of taxes\u2014or would he rather join the Prime Minister on the side of mega rich tax dodgers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022571084377f454a02ad4aae02ac9dccc0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The last part of the question is out of order. The first part can certainly be answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d564ce8b098b43d69c77d5df35ac0188\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: I encourage the member to take a slightly broader perspective on this issue. There is a number of large companies that use their New Zealand - based entities as a means of getting product into New Zealand. Along the retail pipeline, for example, products like\u2014I do not know\u2014fuel would be then retailed by companies in New Zealand that pay the tax. The analogy would then be for, say, Silver Fern Farms selling lamb to London to have to pay UK tax. It is not; Waitrose is, Asda is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022153b6ef83ec04cb78964250136aff6cf\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What credibility can New Zealand have in being part of international discussions about cracking down on multilateral tax avoidance when it emerges that we are in the club of 21 tax havens revealed as part of the Panama Papers, and his Government refuses to acknowledge that that is even a problem?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e1f022b04ac430b92de46615191bc2a\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: It is not for me to re-answer the very good answers that were given by the Prime Minister to his questions. Suffice it to say I agree that New Zealand is not a tax haven when the definition of such is absolute secrecy. Quite the opposite is the case. But I would also remind the member that to the degree that there is multinational tax avoidance taking place, this is a global problem that requires a global solution, which is why we are working with the OECD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ea434fa250046de9c7bb1e7d757f7c5\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Can he not see that New Zealand\u2019s ability to argue for our fair share from multinationals is fatally compromised by his Government siding with the mega rich tax dodgers who are exploiting our trust laws, or is that actually an intentional policy, so that lawyers and accountants can get some money and our reputation gets trashed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f73a11361ee5474abe75f7a612f06a60\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: The question simply does not warrant a response, but I will say this: the member needs to be careful what he wishes for. Silver Fern Farms selling lambs into England and Fonterra selling formula into China would, on the regime that that member suggests, be liable for tax in those countries. Our responsibility is to ensure everybody pays their fair share of tax in New Zealand. This Government deployed $20 million to ensure that that was happening, and I am satisfied that that is money well spent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022898be8b549a7442d8d75089a004815b7\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he not respond to the IRD\u2019s statement to his predecessor in 2013: \u201CTo protect our international reputation, it may be necessary to strengthen our regulatory framework for disclosure and recordkeeping.\u201D? Why did the Government not respond to that warning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225db3ba58ed804f5db8ef618317bedf9d\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: The question is now delving back into the area of foreign trusts, not base erosion and profit shifting by multinationals, but I am satisfied that the IRD is nimble in making the changes to things like the thin capitalisation rules, the permanent establishment rules, the non-resident withholding tax rules, and rules for GST on online purchases that ensure the maintenance of this country\u2019s revenue base.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002202c5811da8904c39b48ede6b806b76ab\u0022\u003ELocal Government\u2014Better Local Services Reforms\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002238b99e1bfd41454ea8a7dec442774943\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238b99e1bfd41454ea8a7dec442774943\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: What recent reforms has he announced to improve local government services for ratepayers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0f8f05f7b2e4b0ab030415f657777d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0f8f05f7b2e4b0ab030415f657777d4\u0022\u003EHon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I have recently announced reforms to the local government sector that will enable councils to more easily develop shared services. The Better Local Services reform package will also give the Local Government Commission enhanced powers to work with councils to create shared council-controlled organisations, or CCOs. They will provide scale and expertise across the local government sector and drive better outcomes for ratepayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022268a858a208a49388b238a2f39673de4\u0022\u003EMark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: How will the local government reforms improve services to ratepayers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022368392d1c4b24259965e05218aa08b88\u0022\u003EHon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: We have got 78 councils across New Zealand responsible for 66 water authorities, plus roads, parks, recreational facilities, local planning, and building consent processes. The cost of delivering these services is rising much faster than incomes and ratepayers\u2019 ability to fund them. In some regions populations are declining, while in other areas population growth and tourism are placing increased demands on local services and infrastructure. Combining to form shared council-controlled organisations for water, roads, and consenting processes will lift the performance of these services across regions by increasing access to technical expertise and greater use of technology, and reducing duplications. Efficiency gains will result in much better value for money and better quality services for ratepayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d6d16a1f32c43cdb681175b59d437cc\u0022\u003EMark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: What changes are proposed for the Local Government Commission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e26070e37b46424f89dbf02b7561814a\u0022\u003EHon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: The current legislation restricts the Local Government Commission to responding to proposals put before it, and councils are not able to lead reorganisation processes. Under the Better Local Services reforms the Local Government Commission will be able to initiate its own investigations into possible reorganisations. The commission will work proactively with councils to support shared services reorganisations. It is also required to consult affected iwi and local communities. Polls are still intended for any commission-led proposal for amalgamation and for any proposed major transfer of water, transport, or Resource Management Act assets or functions. There will be increased ministerial oversight of the commission\u2019s operations, and these changes will give the commission, together with councils and communities, better tools to improve services for ratepayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec8bd6ff95bc4f518055d3388c2755f5\u0022\u003EFreshwater Management\u2014Water Quality of Rivers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf90334e703f46b9b51365257fbc3840\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf90334e703f46b9b51365257fbc3840\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: Does he accept that people wanting a swimmable standard for rivers are seeking to stop pollution by farms, factories and towns making otherwise swimmable rivers so dirty that they are unsafe to swim in at normal, rather than flood, flows?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00223818e03356f84db5b77238ba15f40103\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223818e03356f84db5b77238ba15f40103\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I have heard the views of hundreds of people at the 10 public meetings to date on the Government\u2019s proposals to strengthen the national freshwater requirements on councils, but it is impossible to define them as a single point of view. Some have expressed a view that we should legislate for all water bodies to be swimmable all of the time, even though this is not practical. Most people, including myself, want tougher pollution rules that will ensure that our rivers are swimmable as often as possible. I am open-minded about the swimmability provisions and about making it more explicit to regional councils that New Zealanders expect to be able to swim in their local river, as long as these provisions are practical and enforceable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac17387d01ed4e9493ecf90ffb6d254d\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why do he and the Prime Minister keep putting up false excuses against swimmability, like poor water quality when rivers are in flood?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fa83d5e899e45da826b8cff8c2dc32e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I would note that when Prime Minister John Key was elected to office, New Zealand had no national rules around water quality\u2014absolutely none at all. So I do take it as a little bit rich for a member of the former Government to be complaining about the rules that this Government has put in place, because they are the toughest rules around improving freshwater quality in New Zealand and improving swimmability of our waterways that have ever been put in place by a Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc17290de4ca4803bb5efd0c1fdf4d30\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was an interesting answer, but it did not address my question, which was short and straight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ec11169c91942458a5646480449cee9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member, in his question, used the words \u201Cputting up false excuses\u201D\u2014[Interruption] Order! The Minister took the opportunity to rebut that quite strongly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eb302c415e34a3db3ab384aaa54a71d\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. He did not. He did not provide any explanation as to why they are saying that flooded rivers are why they\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296a25bb707b34561a054c5a943420700\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! He addressed the issue of whether the Prime Minister and he were putting up false excuses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb47f46a0804237bac527c7560beaee\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that he made the Prime Minister look foolish on Radio New Zealand National yesterday by adopting the \u201Cflooded river\u201D excuse for polluted rivers, when New Zealanders do not go swimming in silt-laden rivers in flood that could sweep them away to their deaths?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022138ed985cf474700861ae351ecc5517a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The only politician I have seen looking foolish is the Leader of the Opposition, which occurs so frequently that it is almost a daily event\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226e144a928554689af502e4690d2aa87\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I accept that the question had a political tone, but if the Minister could address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd837fa818404ad6b75775fd0e8d7545\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: There are others who are demanding that it be a legal requirement that every river and every stream be swimmable 100 percent of the time. And as a practical engineer, I point out that passing such a law would mean that most water bodies would always breach that standard during high-flow events, and that is why both the Prime Minister and I are saying that we want tougher rules and we want better water quality, but that we want rules that are also practical for councils to enforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211d5b779f3374d3dae3bceaf67c63927\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe that New Zealanders should normally be able to swim in their local river?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255d18d995a414fffae5333fd3f73ccdc\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do. And that is why this Government has invested over $300 million in clean-ups. That is why this Government has put the first national regulations in place, in respect of water metering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba292cd7f7b84763afc12964ac856963\u0022\u003EDr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re getting dirtier. They\u2019re getting worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224690b39dcc4d4b0088f6d71c1d2ed7fc\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: And for those members who say that it is getting worse, I point this out: the very first time that a dairy farm expansion or new consent has been turned down has been under our Government, as a consequence of national policy statements. If they travel to Southland, if they travel to Hawke\u2019s Bay, if they travel to those areas that are water quality, then any honest water-quality scientist will say, firstly, that these problems go back a good 20 or 30 years, and, secondly, that this Government is making more progress than any in our history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dc381efdd1747628c984d33a1fd9603\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Given his quite proper acknowledgment last week that the main cause of declining water quality is pollution from livestock effluent and fertiliser, why can he not also admit that it is his failure to stop increased farm pollution of our rivers that is causing the problem and why he is so out of touch with New Zealanders, who just want their rivers to be swimmable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ece8f0625c604722a2a690675a27305a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: This Parliament, this afternoon, is about to debate the Environment Canterbury legislation. In that legislation, the commissioners have actually put red zones in a third of Canterbury, which have actually limited agricultural expansion. Actually, the regional council was in place for 20 years and never put any limits in place on the expansion of agriculture. In areas like Southland, in areas like Hawke\u2019s Bay, in areas like the Waikato, it is only during the term of this Government that those diffuse pollution issues that are so challenging are actually being addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d4cb691fa5494c77be4d1c1246c6ab30\u0022\u003EPeople with Disabilities, Employment\u2014Project 300\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022563f4007c6de43a3828ff2c978092bba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022563f4007c6de43a3828ff2c978092bba\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Disability Issues: How is the Canterbury employment pilot scheme Project 300 helping disabled people and people with health conditions into work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u00220f2a748e7ae94de1b4523cf67b3ce46b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f2a748e7ae94de1b4523cf67b3ce46b\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (Minister for Disability Issues):\u003C/span\u003E In April last year, taking advantage of the Christchurch rebuild and the region\u2019s low unemployment rate, I launched Project 300, which was a Christchurch-based employment pilot scheme for people with disabilities or health conditions, to get them into sustainable employment in 12 months. To date, over 159 employers have committed to providing vacancies, and, better than that, as at the end of last month, 255 clients have full-time work, 67 clients have part-time work, and 10 clients have commenced full-time study, and more employers and clients are showing an interest every day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e23c00c165354d89bc780586c2be022c\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has she received about the positive impacts of getting into work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da9c12381dd24d30acd9f961e4ba0969\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER\u003C/span\u003E: I have heard lots of inspirational stories about how getting into work has changed people\u2019s lives. One participant, who had suffered a brain injury, has started work reassembling crates. He is enjoying his job, and it has helped him remain drug-free. Another participant has been on and off the benefit for 25 years and, through Project 300, has gained work experience and, following a glowing reference from that work experience, has a full-time job. And, thirdly, a participant who has been on and off the benefit for the past 13 years and has several criminal convictions has been linked up with a range of supports that have boosted her confidence, and now she has started part-time work with the option of more hours as they become available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002231e64bf1b3a7424fa359ea4774d0d364\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022092884f2b12e4599a59ed42cae54f486\u0022\u003ETax System\u2014Overseas Trusts\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00229d85ff56ddd94e5ca9acfd888c584674\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d85ff56ddd94e5ca9acfd888c584674\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received letters from the Rt Hon Winston Peters and Andrew Little seeking to debate, under Standing Order 389, the release of documents that are alleged to show that New Zealand is used as a tax haven. The members have authenticated their applications with news media reports suggesting New Zealand is a tax haven. However, the making of allegations can never constitute a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility, and I refer members to Speakers\u2019 rulings 212/3 and 212/4. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe Government is accountable for concerns raised about the alleged use of New Zealand as a tax haven, but this is an ongoing matter. To date, it has not announced any particular action it intends to take about the matter, or made any policy announcement. To warrant an urgent debate being held, there must be a new situation or decision of importance in itself. The absence of action on the part of the Government is not a particular case of recent occurrence under which an urgent debate can be sought, and I refer to Speakers\u2019 ruling 212/2. The application is, therefore, declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002234e7c85a863349849c501f951ef707e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234e7c85a863349849c501f951ef707e8\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I did not apply on the basis of allegations; I applied on the basis of international evidence, which has not been refuted, as to the personalities involved. No one in the Government, starting with the Prime Minister and the Minister of Revenue, has got up and said that those people are not transacting business in this country. They are not allegations; they are proven facts, and I want to have a debate on what that means for a country with our reputation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00223a894a1decf24a61bc25e97f8ff5652c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a894a1decf24a61bc25e97f8ff5652c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have given a ruling that three things must be met. Firstly, it must meet the case of recent occurrence; I am saying quite clearly that it does not. Then I had to consider ministerial responsibility. Finally, the third one is whether it requires the attention of the House. I have made a ruling; there is no debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002224fd9a9fd18f41ebaa589d8e59f93b1d\u0022\u003EEnvironment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a3b2d83e8b04cfba6f1a8d0f8961261\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022644f64bd287f45ca84227e5e1ffae954\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022abc21548d7994e4cab2981bdfcaac5dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abc21548d7994e4cab2981bdfcaac5dd\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a call on Part 1 of this bill to spell out why it is that Labour will not, cannot, and will never support this legislation. Part 1 of the bill, which contains the preliminary provisions of this bill\u2014that is, clauses 3 through 7\u2014actually contains some pretty important elements of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EFirst and foremost is the purpose clause of this legislation, where I would like to turn my attention. This is, of course, the part of the bill that tells us what it is going to do. Clause 3 says that \u201CThe purpose of this Act is to provide governance arrangements for the Canterbury Regional Council that will\u2014(a) operate during the 2016 to 2019 local authority election-cycle period;\u201D. But it is subclause (2) that I would like to turn my attention first of all, where it says: \u201CTo this end, this Act\u2014(a) replaces the Environment Canterbury (Temporary Commissioners and Improved Water Management) Act 2010; and (b) provides for a new governing body for the Canterbury Regional Council comprising a mix of elected and appointed members;\u201D. This is, of course, what the Minister for the Environment euphemistically refers to as a mixed model of democracy. This, of course, is a Minister who thinks democracy is a little bit too risky and is something that we, as elected members, should exercise caution on before allowing it back into any part of our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe first question that I would like Nick Smith, the Minister in the chair, to address is an issue that was raised by officials in the regulatory impact statement. It is around the consultation document that lies behind the piece of legislation that preceded it. Why was it that it went out and really gave only a fait accompli of this one model, with there being a range of options that were not canvassed in terms of what the future of Canterbury would hold? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis is something that submitters on the bill raised. In particular, the Christchurch City Council, in both its submission on the discussion document that preceded this legislation and its written and oral submissions on the legislation before the Local Government and Environment Committee, raised particular questions about why it was that this is the path the Minister chose to go down and said that it was only one option. Treasury, of course, found the need to raise questions about this in the regulatory impact statement and said that it could not give the kind of advice it would otherwise if that had been practised differently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo I am looking forward to hearing the Minister give us an explanation of why it was that only this single option was put forward in the discussion document, because it was not like the Minister did not know this was coming. It had been nearly 3 years since he had last cancelled elections in Canterbury, and he had had plenty of time to plan for the next phase and what came next. So that is in the purpose statement, and I would like to hear from the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI would also like to then turn my attention to clause 6 in Part 1 of this legislation, which is the clause that deals with the repeal of this legislation. It is actually only a few days after the sixth anniversary of when the Minister first sacked our elected representative regional council in Canterbury and replaced it with Crown appointees. When that council was first sacked in 2010 there were a lot of statements made in the media, and the Prime Minister was even moved to make some statements to say that it might be as late as 2013 before Canterbury could have representative democracy back in its region. But did that happen? No, it did not. What happened before the expiration of the 2010 legislation is, of course, the Minister just put in place another piece of legislation that extended the Crown appointees over elected representatives in the region of Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo we have absolutely no faith that the repeal date of this legislation will, in fact, in essence, be what is stated in clause 6 of the bill. When the bill states that it is repealed on the close of the resumption day, we know that behind the scenes there have been moves by various Government agencies to make the situation that the Minister is putting into place permanent. We know, through Official Information Act requests, that the Ministry for Primary Industries was lobbying, asking that the situation where the Crown appoints half the regional councillors, in the case of Canterbury, be made permanent. I would like to hear from the Minister, in the Committee stage of this legislation, an absolute assurance to the people of Canterbury\u2014should National still be in Government, but that will not be the case, because we will be able to take care of that, but more on that later\u2014that in the Minister\u2019s mind this is the last piece of Draconian legislation that takes away democratic rights from the people of Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EAs we get more into the substantive parts of this legislation, in Part 2, we will talk more fully about what some of the problems are. But I want to know from the Minister that this is what he means this time. When you read through the documents, prior to the discussion documents being issued, I have no faith. I have no faith that in the Minister\u2019s mind this is the end of the road. We have no cause to have faith in Canterbury, because we have had our votes stolen twice\u2014not only in 2010 but by the subsequent legislation that came into play for the 2013 election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EAt the time when votes were first taken away, there were jokes going around. Will Canterbury or Fiji be the first to have democratic elections? Well, the Minister can be proud to say he is presiding over a region that is standing firm and not returning to democracy. What is being proposed and defined in Part 1, in clause 4, \u201CInterpretation\u201D, in no way represents a return to democracy. The Minister seems to think he can be a little bit democratic, in the way that you might like to be a little bit pregnant. But a return to democracy means giving Cantabrians the right to elect their regional councillors. This legislation does not do that. It does not return Canterbury to what the rest of the country enjoys, and that is a democratically elected regional council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe Minister needs to justify this, and I look forward to the Minister taking a call to justify this, because he has failed to do so to this date. There is simply no justification for this. The kinds of arguments that we have heard put up\u2014that democracy is a little bit risky. The people who elected this Minister might like to be a little bit afraid that their elected representatives considered the system of representation under which he is elected is risky. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI am sure we will get into those debates more fully, in a more substantive part of this bill\u2014the idea that this has to be done for the good of Canterbury. We will have a discussion about water quality in Canterbury, and we will see that in the 6 years since the commissioners have been in place, we have seen a decline in water quality in our region. I look forward to hearing from the Minister what the justifications are, why he never went to the people of Canterbury with a broader set of proposals, and an assurance that, in his mind, this is the end of the road. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u002229ed98f6853d468d9066ee5dedd2fcfa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229ed98f6853d468d9066ee5dedd2fcfa\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. This bill, the Environment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements) Bill, is an abominable bill, and the Green Party will continue to strongly oppose it. One of the first things that a Green Party in Government next year would do is repeal the bill and restore a fully elected regional council to Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWhen the Minister in the chair, the Hon Nick Smith, stands up to speak on the bill, I am sure we will hear a lot of cant and misinformation about the state of Environment Canterbury prior to his axing the regional councillors. He did it again in question time today. He talked about there being no red zones. Well, Minister, there were red zones and the elected regional council was in the process of reviewing the resource consents\u2014the allocation of water takes from groundwater in those zones. Minister, there was already a Canterbury Water Management Strategy because it had been developed by elected councillors and the strategy finalised, before you axed them. There was already a natural resources regional plan, which although not operative was in a proposed state and was picked up by the appointed commissioners a couple of months after they were appointed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI would like to explore in Part 1 the relationship between the Local Government Act and the bill, because clause 7 talks about the relationship between the Local Electoral Act and the Resource Management Act and this bill. The purpose of the Local Government Act is to provide for democratic and effective local government. Democratic local government is an important check on the power of the executive. It is a legitimate expectation in our society that we should be able to elect people at the local and regional levels to represent us, to make decisions about the rates that we pay, and how those rates are spent. There is $80 million - odd of rates in Environment Canterbury. But the second-class model that this bill provides, with seven elected councillors and six appointed members, means that nearly half of the people around the table will not be accountable to Cantabrians for the decisions they are making about the spending of taxes, in the form of rates. That is not democratic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe purpose in this bill is not about improving democracy; it is mechanistic. It continues to deprive Cantabrians of a fully elected council. As one submitter, John Summers, said, it substitutes and provides a cheap fairground consolation prize with this notion of being able to elect only seven councillors. As Mr Summers said, history shows that power is addictive, not readily relinquished. The only bill we should be talking about today should be complete democracy, not this watered-down version that the Government is bringing to us, because by removing that fully elected council, we are removing a check on the power of central government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EMany submitters commented on this. The Law Society noted that it removed that underlying relationship between the citizen and the State at the local level by removing that accountability to ratepayers. Associate Professor Bronwyn Hayward, the head of the department of political science and international relations at the University of Canterbury, commented in her submission that this bill was implementing a form of governance that Canterbury University teaches students about in regard to developing economies where governance is at risk of corruption, gerrymandering, and undue influence on the democratic process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis National Government should be ashamed that it is putting in place a regime in Canterbury that applies absolutely nowhere else in New Zealand. Even in Kaipara, where you had a $50 million to $60 million blowout in spending by the Kaipara District Council, and commissioners being appointed\u2014this year, citizens in Kaipara will get the chance to elect their local council. Why do we have this mixed model, the second-class democracy that the Government is imposing on the region? Well, it is because of water\u2014the fact that 60 percent of the water allocated for irrigation in New Zealand is used in Canterbury. This very partisan bill is enabling the Government to keep its fingers in the till and ensure that water management plans in Canterbury are amenable to irrigators, because, of course, it was Irrigation New Zealand that went crying to Government in 2010 when an elected council sought to improve the flow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002280f7f7aee9c24c138b45fd1539f89b33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280f7f7aee9c24c138b45fd1539f89b33\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I am not at all surprised by the very defensive contribution from Eugenie Sage, because she was one of the regional councillors who sat on the governance body of the most dysfunctional unit of local government in New Zealand. She went on to say that it was the farmers or the irrigators who asked the Government to intervene in Environment Canterbury. Actually, it was the 10 mayors of Canterbury who unanimously came to the Government: the Mayor of Christchurch, the Mayor of \u201CWaimak\u201D, the Mayor of Selwyn, the mayor\u2014the ten mayors of Canterbury. Mayors do not often agree and they unanimously expressed no confidence in the body of which Eugenie Sage was a member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe second point I would want to make is that anybody who is engaged in the water issue in New Zealand knows that nowhere is it as important and pertinent as it is in Canterbury. It is where 70 percent of the irrigation in New Zealand takes place. It is where we have got our biggest challenges around water quality. It is also where over 50 percent of our hydroelectricity is stored in New Zealand. Despite all those factors, in 20 years of the regional council we still had no operative rules around fresh water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThat was a disaster for New Zealand, and it was absolutely right of this Government to say that our fresh water in Canterbury deserves better and that we need to get some high-skilled people to get on top of these challenges. I salute the work of Dame Margaret Bazley; of people the likes of David Caygill, who does not share my politics but does have a great deal of public service ability and dedication; of people like Tom Lambie and those other commissioners. When I reflect on the sort of extravagant language about those commissioners from people like Eugenie Sage, and what I have just heard from Megan Woods, I say that they are out of touch with the people who have actually done more to improve the management of water in Canterbury than anybody in a century. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to challenge Megan Woods on a very basic point. She used language saying that it was Draconian, that the votes of Canterbury were stolen by this National John Key - led Government. Did Helen Clark steal the votes of all Aucklanders when she sacked the Auckland District Health Board? Did the member David Cunliffe, whom, I think, Megan Woods was a strong supporter of being a leader\u2014did he steal democracy when he sacked the Auckland District Health Board? Did her good friend Sandra Lee, previously from the Alliance, steal democracy from the people of Kaipara when she sacked that council? Was there a stealing of democracy when the Rodney District Council was properly dismissed? The report was overwhelming: Environment Canterbury had the worst record in processing consents, in statistics that were recorded, and intervention was required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EMegan Woods has asked for a reassurance\u2014that is, whether there will be local body elections in 2019, the same as for every other regional council in New Zealand. I give that assurance absolutely, but I also say that if we really are concerned about the water issues in Canterbury, then we need to ensure that there is a smooth transition. That is why, actually, the majority of councils in Canterbury have supported the transitional approach that is taken in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to reflect on an editorial in the Christchurch Press. I go back and read it from when I announced the decision to sack the councillors and to appoint commissioners. The editorial said this: \u201CVoters will get to judge the merits of the Government\u2019s moves at the election in 2011.\u201D When we extended the arrangement, the editorial in the Christchurch Press said: \u201CVoters will get to have their say on whether they support National in these interventions at the 2014 election.\u201D Well, what is surprising, and where I think we feel how out of touch Megan Woods and Eugenie Sage are from public opinion, is that, actually, National got the best results ever in the history of Canterbury, holding seats like Nicky Wagner\u2019s in Christchurch Central, because the voters knew that we had acted absolutely in the public interest and in the interests of fresh water with the intervention that we made at that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis bill is about taking a responsible approach to Government. It is ensuring that we maintain the momentum and a sensible transition around those crucial freshwater issues that are being developed in a collaborative way across Canterbury. For those who really do beat their chests in this Chamber, concerned about this country lifting its game about fresh water, they will back the commissioners and they will back the Government in its intervention, because every independent observer has noted that there has been more done over the last 6 years in respect of improving the management of fresh water than what there had been in the previous 60 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe fact of those red zones, the fact of those plans that have been put in place\u2014well, Eugenie Sage strokes her head. Tell me, how many dairy farm expansions had been declined in the period when she was an Environment Canterbury commissioner? Do you know what the answer is? Absolutely zero\u2014absolutely zero. In fact, if she looks at the record of the growth in the amount of dairy industry in Canterbury, it actually grew at its fastest and most uncontrolled rate when she sat on the governance body of that board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EActually, the limits that have been put in place around nutrients is causing real tension, real pressure in Canterbury, but at last the issues of fresh water in Canterbury are being properly constrained. Those diffuse pollution issues are having limits put on them, which is absolutely proper. That is why I urge this Committee to look at the progress that has been made, back those commissioners, and ensure there is a smooth transition. Again, I would say that what the Government is doing is actually backed by the majority of the councils in Canterbury. That is why we should see this smooth transition through and ensure that the job we started in 2010 is properly completed, for the good of the people of Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbabab02589746c7b377520189ec51f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbabab02589746c7b377520189ec51f7\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E That contribution from Minister Smith was very interesting, because if you do look at what the record of the commissioners has been, it has not been about improving water quality. We have seen, in Canterbury, despite what the Minister says, a decrease in water quality. We have seen in Canterbury, some of\u2014Te Waihora, Lake Ellesmere. The Waihora-Selwyn catchment drains into Lake Ellesmere. Te Waihora is New Zealand\u2019s fifth-largest lake and it is an important taonga to Ng\u0101i Tahu, and yet we had the chair of the commissioners writing to the Selwyn District Council encouraging the council to agree to an $8 million loan from ratepayers to subsidise the second stage of the Central Plains irrigation scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Minister can talk about the hundreds of millions that are being spent on cleaning up our lakes and rivers, but it does not make any sense to put more money into subsidising irrigation to intensify land use in a catchment where that drains to Te Waihora and that will increase nutrient pollution in the lake. At the moment we have got a major increase in nitrogen and phosphorous loadings in the lake. We need a 50 percent reduction in the current levels of nutrient pollution to get to a trophic lake index of six or less, which would help the lake to restore itself. We are not getting that where we get the chair of the commissioners not only in regulation but involved in promoting irrigation through encouraging the Selwyn District Council to fund the second stage of the Central Plains Water scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWhat we have also seen in Canterbury is the decline in the number of swimmable rivers. We had the commissioners promising that 80 percent of rivers would be suitable for swimming by 2015. In 2010, 74 percent of monitored river sites were safe for swimming; yet, in 2016 only 67 percent are. The commissioners have not improved water quality\u2014sure, in a few small areas, but across the region, no, because of the huge scale of intensification. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EYes, the Minister is right: intensification was increasing under the elected councillors\u2019 regime, but there had been a failure by successive Governments to actually implement national direction through a national policy statement and national standards. Yes, we now have that national direction under this Government, but it provides an aspiration of wadeable rivers, not swimmable rivers. So we continue to see water quality declining in the region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe had a lot of submitters talking about that\u2014about high-country lakes that were previously rated clean and blue by the regional council in its monitoring and now most of them are rated just of moderate quality. You have had dairying expanding in the catchments of high-country lakes rather than being prohibited by Environment Canterbury. As one submitter, Penelope Snowdon-Lait, said: \u201CDespite the small gains in pulling back pollution here and there, overall we are on a treadmill without hope under the current model.\u201D This bill is not about improved water management, as the principal Act claimed to be, when we have seen a continued decline and deterioration in water quality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Minister said that all of the councils supported the commissioners replacing the elected councillors. This time, on this bill, the Christchurch City Council highlighted that there should not be a continuation of this half-pie model. Yes, the Minister is holding up his hands. Christchurch\u2014in case the Minister did not realise, and I am sure he does\u2014is the second-largest city in New Zealand. This bill halves the representation for elected councillors for Christchurch and it substantially reduces our overall representation by increasing the number of citizens who are represented by each councillor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn 2007, when we had elected councillors, in Christchurch there were between 37,000 and 39,000 citizens for every councillor. Under this bill we will now have 90,475 citizens represented by one councillor. The number of councillors representing the city of Christchurch is halved, from eight to four, and they are having to represent almost double the number of citizens. That is not democracy in action, and that is why the Christchurch City Council made a very strong submission calling for a return of an elected council. We have not heard a justification from the Government, either in the discussion document it put out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00221457dad9577749dd8e41153eb99bec35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221457dad9577749dd8e41153eb99bec35\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Just following on from what Eugenie Sage was saying, I wanted to say, first of all, about Part 1 of the Environment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements) Bill, that the purpose is stated as being to establish a transitional, elected, and appointed mixed Environment Canterbury, but, actually, it does not say anywhere why. Nor has the Minister for the Environment, or any other person from the National Party, yet explained comprehensively why there needs to be a mixed, elected, or appointed body. The bill itself certainly does not say that, even in the purpose clause. Furthermore, clause 3(1)(c) refers to \u201Ca majority of members of the Council to be elected\u201D, but that majority is usually only one\u2014so it is the least-possible, paper-thin majority that is possible, and as we will see when we come to discuss Part 2, there will not necessarily always be a majority of elected people either. But that is something for us to discuss later. So, really, this is not just a hybrid; it is a hybrid that may actually not be in any way at all democratic. In fact, you cannot really describe a body that is partly elected and partly appointed as democratic anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe point is that the crux of the whole bill is just this: there actually is not any need after 6 years for any appointed members of Environment Canterbury at all. As I have said, there is no justification in the bill and nor has the Minister described why that should be necessary in any way that I have heard to be comprehensible and meaningful. When you look at the objectives of the 2010 appointments\u2014fundamentally to make sure that the Canterbury Water Management Strategy was developed, adopted, and given effect to\u2014then you could say that today, as we speak, that has actually already been achieved. So, again, it has been achieved. I mean, I live in Canterbury and I am the chairman of the Central Plains Water Trust. I actually take notice of these things, and what is there is already so well entrenched that it would simply not be possible at all for that to be done away with, either in practice or by any process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThere is no reason any longer for the continuation of any commissioners. I would like to hear the Minister comment on that. A return to democracy is in fact essential after 6 years because Environment Canterbury has already lost its credibility as a representative body for the people of Canterbury\u2014it has already lost that. The years have been too long and too difficult for it to be seen in that way anymore. So it is a very serious thing when that happens, and it should not go on for another 3 years\u2014to make 9 years in total. It is wrong also to treat Canterbury differently from any other region for such a very long period of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI will say this. I agree over one thing with the Minister: in 2010 it was necessary, I believe, for Environment Canterbury to have been replaced by appointees. But, in fact, 9 years will be far, far too long for that to continue without any really robust reason for that. As I have already said, without a fully elected body you cannot regard the new Environment Canterbury\u2014the transitional one\u2014as being in any way democratic at all, because it is simply not possible for it to operate in that way with so many appointed members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is committed to an effective local democracy, which means elected people. It is one thing to dismiss elected councillors way back in 2010 but it is another thing altogether for it to go on for 9 years\u2014that is a tremendously long period of time. In fact, the time should have been the shortest possible time because in the Cabinet paper prepared at the time of the Creech report, it actually said this: \u201Cthe explicit intent is for the Commissioners to withdraw and to be replaced by elected representatives as soon as their task is achieved and the present systemic issues are resolved.\u201D As I have already said, that in fact has already been achieved. The Government has not explained why the appointment of commissioners should continue to be necessary after 6 years, and it needs to do that if it is to have any credibility with this bill at all. So I would ask the Minister to actually stand up right now and give us a full explanation of why that is necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022c442503be80549b2a91636ac1b43339e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c442503be80549b2a91636ac1b43339e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Denis O\u2019Rourke, in his closing comments, made a very interesting and valid point. He called on the Minister in the chair, Nick Smith, to justify why, after sacking Environment Canterbury in 2010 then breaking his word, along with the Prime Minister, in 2013 when he said he would reinstate full democratic elections, he is extending out further transitional provisions and enabling the Government to appoint a large component of councillors\u2014up to six, I believe, with seven or so elected councillors\u2014mainly from, of course, as the Minister knows, rural areas. One could make a rather interesting series of conversations about gerrymandering and other things. I could perceive where a number of those elected Environment Canterbury folk will stack up, as opposed to those who are appointed. But Mr O\u2019Rourke made the point\u2014and it is a fair question, which I put to the Minister as well: why the extension? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn 2010 the Minister in the chair sacked Environment Canterbury. In 2013 he said: \u201CNo, we will reinstate them.\u201D Then he extended it again. He broke his word\u2014absolutely broke his word. It has been reported on time and time and time again within this House. Then we move right through to 2019 and the Minister expects us to stand up and take him at his word again\u2014take another sort of Nick Smith Lotto ticket\u2014that he will not come back and pull the wool over Cantabrians. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe other interesting thing about this bill is that last week, the Minister might recall, his colleague Gerry Brownlee, with a lot of consultation and a lot of cooperative effort, to give him credit, decided to take on board the concerns of Cantabrians and submitters in respect of the Greater Christchurch Regeneration Bill in order that Cantabrians take the power back, to a large extent\u2014with Crown input, which is appropriate\u2014and take control, if you will, in partnership with the Government, in respect of regenerating Christchurch. I think that was a pretty good process. The Minister listened and he accepted that we have got smart people in Christchurch and Canterbury who are chomping at the bit to shoulder more responsibility in these big issues\u2014and they are huge issues\u2014in respect of the earthquake in Canterbury. The political forces across the aisle acknowledged submitters, and political parties listened to them, and it was agreed that Cantabrians were smart, were responsible, and could be masters of their own destiny. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EYet fast forward to a week later and we come to this bill, and now, of course, we get a whole historic litany of justification: firstly for why it was that the Minister sacked Environment Canterbury, then, secondly, why it was that he broke his word in 2013, but there is no explanation as to why this bill does what it does, because what this bill does is continue to perpetuate the fact that Nick Smith broke his word\u20149 years, it will be. It just perpetuates that issue. There has not been one explanation from the Minister as to why Cantabrians cannot rule their own roost and why they require to be babysat by commissioners, who are unaccountable commissioners\u2014and I will not get into quality or lack of quality. I think there are many things the commissioners have done that are pretty good, but the point remains that they are answerable to that Minister and they are answerable to this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn the old days you could go to an Environment Canterbury councillor, like an elected MP, and say \u201CLook, I\u2019ve got a problem\u201D, and you could hold their feet to the fire. The truth is that those commissioners are not responsible to the people of Canterbury, nor accountable to the people of Canterbury. They are responsible to that man sitting in that chair and his Government, like those whom he will appoint to babysit the component of elected\u2014mainly rural, but elected\u2014 Environment Canterbury councillors who will be elected in respect of this piece of legislation. So we have got Gerry Brownlee, who says \u201CListen to the people, Cantabrians are smart. We are going to give them what they asked for. They are smart enough, they have the spirit to actually start shouldering a major chunk of the responsibility, or greater chunks of responsibility, in Canterbury\u201D, and then we have this guy, who says \u201COh, no, no. They\u2019re not smart enough; they cannot be trusted.\u201D By the way, not only can we not trust those elected but also, of course, by default, the Minister is saying he does not trust the people of Canterbury to elect from their number smart, professional people who will actually do the job. Nick Smith does not trust the people of Canterbury. That is, effectively, what he is saying, because\u2014[Bell rung] Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231b8a68f94214a509a79b674e27b559b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Clayton Cosgrove.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0c17bd2387048a5b8694a746c92d1ac\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f248bdb701ce4fdd922f366249e84787\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry; I have called the Hon Clayton Cosgrove.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ac2314a16b745799099cf13ffc7faff\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: A day late, a dollar short\u2014nothing changes. I say to that Minister that he should actually give an explanation as to why he does not trust the people of Canterbury, because, as I have just said, before he tried to jump in with one of his usual efforts, by not allowing full elections\u2014full elections where all Cantabrians can elect leaders from among their number\u2014he is, effectively, saying that he does not trust those constituents to elect smart people. That is, essentially, what he is saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt would be really good to get an explanation\u2014not the histrionics we have heard in the speeches about what went on in 2010 and the justifications for breaking his word in 2013. No, no. The Minister purports that this is a forward-looking piece of legislation. Well, I invite him to look in his crystal ball and forward-look and give us an explanation as to why he does not trust the constituents whom Mr Doocey and other members\u2014Ms Woods and others\u2014represent in Canterbury. I invite him to tell us why he does not trust them and why he thinks that the people they will elect, the small component they will elect, will not be smart enough, will not be up to it, and will not be trustworthy. There is a question for the Minister. There is a forward-looking question, and I look forward to the answer\u2014not histrionics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThere is such a contrast between this piece of legislation and the Greater Christchurch Regeneration Bill, so maybe he should elbow his colleague Gerry Brownlee, who does reside in Christchurch and who does understand the people of Canterbury, and he demonstrated that last week. Maybe he should give him one in the ribs and say: \u201CGerry, why is it that you trust the people you represent but I sit in Nelson and I don\u2019t trust these Cantabrians? I know it is not a rugby thing, but, why don\u2019t I trust them? Why don\u2019t I trust them? Why do I know better?\u201D. This Minister is great at telling us why he knows better than anybody else, why he knows better than his mate Gerry Brownlee\u2014who does trust his fellow citizens\u2014and why he knows better than the people of Canterbury. He has demonstrated that he has broken his word. He has demonstrated that he cannot justify this continuing. I ask him now to demonstrate why he does not trust Cantabrians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00222dafcf485fdf4f0188d10fd4172cb8a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dafcf485fdf4f0188d10fd4172cb8a5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I can totally relate as to why the people of Waimakariri twice rejected Clayton Cosgrove as their member of Parliament, with the sort of nastiness that we got from that contribution. Megan Woods asked earlier whether I could give an assurance that there would be local elections in 2019. I responded in good faith to Megan Woods\u2019 response, and then the next Labour member comes along and says: \u201CWell, I don\u2019t want to get an assurance anyway, because I wouldn\u2019t believe it if I got it.\u201D One, it shows you the level of disunity within the Labour Party, but, secondly, it shows the lack of good faith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe question that Mr Cosgrove asked, and which was also asked by Mr O\u2019Rourke, was in terms of why we need this transition. There is a very simple reason. There are eight water zones in Canterbury. Two of them now have a fully operative set of plans around water. Six of them are halfway through the process. We have commissioners like Peter Skelton, a former Environment Court judge, who ensure there is a great deal of legal scrutiny and appropriateness for us to have a single-track process, without appeals to the Environment Court, to get water plans in place in all six of those zones. The reason Government members want to see, quite simply, a continuity of those commissioners, and see this work done, is that every water zone in Canterbury needs an operative plan. They are two out of eight through that process, we need to see it through, and any member of this Committee who is genuinely concerned about getting robust rules in place for water will want to see that piece of work completed, as is provided for in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd659868a97947f99a297bcf710f1c24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd659868a97947f99a297bcf710f1c24\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on Part 1 of the Environment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements) Bill. Clause 3(2)(b), I think it is, sets up the mixed-model arrangement for the Canterbury Regional Council, where there will be seven elected members\u2014up to six members appointed by the Government\u2014but still not a complete return to the democracy that we had in 2010. That\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db573376a03f426ea9275d732bac056d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. It is perfectly proper for the member to want to have a debate about those governance clauses, but they are not covered in Part 1. The clause that he has quoted is the incorrect number, and the contribution he wishes to make should be made during the correct part of the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf4618ad8a8f49a7ba5f4821fb32c8f2\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Chairperson, can I point you to clause 3(2)(b) of the purpose clause, which states that the legislation \u201Cprovides for a new governing body for the Canterbury Regional Council comprising a mix of elected and appointed members;\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6b97a5018fd41c2a2ec588fdc04a96c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I take the member\u2019s point, and it is one of a number of points covered in this first part. However, I also take the point the Minister has made, which is that they are far more focused on in future parts. So I am not suggesting that the member has contravened the rules just yet, but I just bring them to his attention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3c822b3eb23460fb4000e741a4fbbe0\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your clarification and for the comments of the Minister in the chair, the Hon Nick Smith. Well, because this Act sets up the new governing body for the Canterbury Regional Council comprising a mix of elected and appointed members, which is pointed out in Part 1, I would like to point out to you some of the risk factors that the officials saw in the setting up of this mixed model. These are helpfully on the front page of the regulatory impact statement, which is provided for members on the Table, if anyone from across the way might want to look at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe first point that the officials raised around this mixed model, which is mentioned in Part 1, was that \u201CPublic consultation was confined to a proposal for the preferred option of a mixed-model governance structure, rather than the range of options in the RIS.\u201D The question that I would like to pose to the Minister in the chair is why the narrow focus on this mixed model and not a good look at the range of options, as contained in the regulatory impact statement, that were posed by the officials. If the Minister would like to take the opportunity to talk to that point, which was raised by officials around the narrow focus and almost the dumb-minded intent of just looking at one option, I would appreciate it\u2014if the Minister could take a call and explain that to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EHelpfully, the officials go on because they have concerns around the mixed model that we have here. They go on to say in the regulatory impact statement: \u201CThis [model] still limits our ability to present full community views on other options in this Regulatory Impact Statement which were not described in the discussion document.\u201D I would like to point out the point that Clayton Cosgrove, I think, made, that around the Regenerate Christchurch legislation that went through this House last week, Gerry Brownlee worked with all parties in this House to get a compromise that everyone was happy with in order to let the people of Christchurch have their voice around the rebuild of that very important city. Yet a different approach has been taken with this piece of legislation and there will not be an effective view around Environment Canterbury. That is another question I want to pose to the Minister: if Minister Brownlee was quite happy to take that approach with the Regenerate Christchurch legislation, why in this legislation under this regulatory impact statement has the Minister not taken a similar approach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAgain, the officials\u2014we are talking about the mixed model, which is pointed out in Part 1\u2014go on to another concern: \u201CWhile based on the District Health Board model, the proposed governance model has an element of uncertainty as to its effectiveness as it has not been used previously in a local governance context.\u201D I think that shows that the officials shared some of the concerns\u2014or many of the concerns\u2014that we have on this side of the Chamber as to whether this mixed-model approach will work for Christchurch. When we were debating the Regenerate Christchurch legislation last week there was unanimous feeling around this House that we had to get legislation around Christchurch right. That is why Gerry Brownlee took that approach and that is why, I think, the Minister needs to explain, when there are concerns around the effectiveness of the model that he is proposing for Environment Canterbury, why he is taking this approach to take a different approach. Why is he not taking the approach that Minister Brownlee has said will make sure that his legislation is effective for Christchurch, but this Minister says it is different?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe officials helpfully go on to say: \u201CThe appointment of councillors is seen by some as an unwarranted intrusion into Canterbury\u2019s affairs by central government.\u201D In English, they are saying that there is going to be no local voice for those people when it comes to this piece of legislation. You would wonder, and I would hazard a guess, that Mr Smith might get up and say: \u201CWell, that is a bunch of lefties\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002230855ab86f004811bf053a0b8fb2c737\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230855ab86f004811bf053a0b8fb2c737\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022c23b212e4f054903b0842535ead15448\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c23b212e4f054903b0842535ead15448\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Just before I was interrupted by the buzzer, I was raising the point that there is a concern for some that there is unwarranted intrusion into Canterbury\u2019s affairs by central government. That was on the front page of the regulatory impact statement. In essence, it was that Christchurch would not have a local voice. You might think that the Government might say that that was lefties, tree-huggers who do not think they are getting listened to in Christchurch. But, funnily enough, it was the Law Society that submitted at the select committee that it was the local voice that was being taken away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo I will take this opportunity to quote directly from the submission from the Law Society because I think it very much succinctly encapsulates many of the concerns that we have on this side of the Chamber around the lack of democracy that is contained within this bill. Its submission said\u2014and I think this is also very much its submission that it made on the 2013 amendment Act: \u201CUnderlying the reasons and the Amendment Bill is a concerning idea: that effective leadership, at a regional level at least, is best achieved through a non-democratic and non-representative institution.\u201D The Law Society says: \u201CThis is misguided. The failure to involve citizens in regional decision-making that affects them so directly, and to draw directly on their knowledge and expertise, often has adverse and unexpected consequences. History has long shown the perils of non-democratic leadership, a matter that the New Zealand Government has railed against within the Pacific region.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo to have this quasi mixed-model arrangement for Canterbury has been pointed out by many, many bodies, as well as political parties, as not being the best fit for Christchurch. I think in a city where we need to get the rebuild right, where we need to get some of these issues around resource allocation right, that the people of Christchurch are entitled to have their voice. The people of Christchurch should not be fooled by the fact that the Government says this is a transition back to democracy. It is still holding back full democracy, which they fully deserve. They fully deserve it. They do not deserve some mixed model of: \u201CWell, you can have seven and we\u2019ll appoint six.\u201D Their votes should have exactly the same effect as votes for the Wellington region, where I will get to choose the members who will be on the Greater Wellington Regional Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EA political impasse around resource allocation is not a good enough reason to take away democracy from Canterbury and that is what this is all about. It is not about people not getting on. It is not about taking away democracy. It is not about a rebuild. It is about this Government saying: \u201CWell, we can\u2019t get what we want done under the democratic votes that happened in Christchurch under that frame because there is an impasse.\u201D So instead of letting democracy sort that out and waiting for the next election, potentially, and putting forward its case\u2014even if our side of the equation lost that democratic argument, that is democracy. But instead of saying \u201CLet\u2019s let democracy win and put our case.\u201D, it says: \u201CWell, to hell with democracy. Let\u2019s get rid of the people who were elected on to this board, to make sure we get the result that we want.\u201D I think that New Zealanders around this country, regardless of whether they are from the Canterbury region or not, will be very, very concerned that this is the third time\u2014not the first, not the second; it is the third time\u2014that we are implementing this legislation to take away their local democratic voice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe Government may have genuine concerns around resource allocation in Christchurch around water rights but changing the democratic functions of Environment Canterbury is not the way to fix this problem. We told them that in 2010, we told them that in 2013, and now it is going to be 2019 before the people of Christchurch get to elect a full board of Environment Canterbury. Nick Smith is to blame for that because he says that democracy should not win and that his Government should win because they want to get a certain outcome. In this House, and as has been pointed out by the Law Society, we do not want that to happen in the likes of the Pacific but it is fine here in New Zealand. I think the Minister should explain himself as to why he thinks it is not OK in the likes of Fiji, and we encourage democracy in Fiji, but it is OK in Canterbury. Get up on your feet and answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec3bc2fcc58648d6bafb2e5273db80e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec3bc2fcc58648d6bafb2e5273db80e9\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a short call on Part 1 of the Environment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements) Bill and to speak to the point around this being a transitional governance arrangement that will be providing a mixed model of democracy for the people of Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI want to restate the point that the case was never made or accepted by the people of Canterbury for the removal of their council. Although the Minister is acknowledging my point, nodding enthusiastically that that is true\u2014in saying that, although there were issues over the water management and the Government\u2019s perception was that things were not happening quickly enough, the people of Canterbury never got to say whether they shared the Minister\u2019s view that that was a problem, because the Government removed their board and did not give them that democratic right to intervene and make a decision on that. Although the Minister has spoken in this Committee and said \u201CWell, now we have plans in place that we did not have before.\u201D, my understanding is that the bulk of the work that led to the production of those plans was done by the previous board that he sacked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would also point out that where the Minister has said we cannot get rid of these appointed officials because the status of water in Canterbury is critical to that area\u2014we absolutely share that view, in the Green Party. However, it is concerning when waterways have actually become more degraded under this model of governance than they were previously, and when we have just seen recently in the media that, in a very water-resource constrained area, 40 billion litres of water are now going to be able to be sold and sent offshore via a resource consent that, I understand, was approved by this governance board, which the people of Canterbury are understandably very upset about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWhat I am seeing is that no case was made. There was no chance for the people of Canterbury to approve or express their view of the Government\u2019s perception, and there was no improvement of water quality. Of the 1,169 submissions on this bill, only 15 supported it. The people of Canterbury have said, very strongly, to this Government, to the Minister, and to this House that they do not want this. The strong thread through the submissions was that people want their democracy back. They want to be able to vote for the full board, and they do not support the belief that there is any value in this mixed model. That is a view that is shared by the Green Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would again restate a quote from the Law Society, when it was submitting on this bill, around the cause of it: \u201CRepresentative democracy is a fundamental principle that gives legitimacy to government and the exercise of state power. \u2026 it [is] one of the \u2018unalterable fundamentals\u2019 of our legal system (the other being independent courts). The proposed further suspension of full democracy is inconsistent with one of [our] core constitutional values, namely a \u2018free and democratic society\u2019.\u201D What this bill is doing, although you are saying it is a transitional arrangement, is it is an ongoing attack on the absolute fundamentals of this society, of what most people in New Zealand thought was an accepted precept of how we work together and how this country functions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EFor the Government to say \u201CWe don\u2019t like it because we\u2019re not getting the outcome that we want.\u201D\u2014well, you know, I could stand up and say: \u201CWell, I don\u2019t like the way that the Government is working and the results that you are getting. I\u2019d like to appoint some independent people that I think would do a better job.\u201D I am not elected, I have not been given that power, but neither were you, Minister. You have been elected into a position here, not in that community, and that community has a democratic right to say how its resources are used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00225013763caea142559d96ba81d7e3891f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225013763caea142559d96ba81d7e3891f\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to speak in the Committee stage of this bill\u2014but is it actually a pleasure, because here we are, yet again, debating legislation that is denying the people of Canterbury their full democratic rights to elect a full regional council. Every time this subject is raised in this House, I am reminded of the stone cairn that stands in Cathedral Square in Christchurch. That stone cairn was erected back in 2010 by the thousands of Cantabrians who were very concerned and aghast that this Government was going to be stripping them of their democratic rights, stripping them of their elected regional councillors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThat was a very passionate act by the people of Canterbury. The stones in that cairn stand so high; it is probably as tall as I am. The stones in that structure are drawn from many of the rivers that are in the wider Canterbury catchment. That cairn marks the loss of democracy. That cairn was erected in 2010, and here we are in 2016 debating more legislation that will extend the stripping of the rights of Cantabrians for another 3 years. So from 2010 to 2019 the people of Canterbury are being denied their right, their democratic right, to elect their regional councillors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe have heard from the Minister Nick Smith. He trots out the same excuses and justifications all the time. He will make disparaging remarks about anybody who has a contrary view to his. But what we need to remember is that whatever body the council may be\u2014and we are now talking about a transitional governing body\u2014at the end of the day the water issues in Canterbury, in the wider Canterbury region, are not going to be fixed by this body. They are not going to be fixed by bodies beyond that time. Hopefully, it will be an elected body, though, that will advocate for, and represent, the people of Canterbury to ensure that there will be some better managed water in the region. But we are talking about issues that are very complex. In essence, we are talking about not having enough water and a lot of competing interests who need that water. That is not going to be fixed overnight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo I raise the hypothetical question: what if, come 2019, the plans are still not in place? What say this transitional governing body still has not completed the work that it was charged to do? I know that Dame Margaret Bazley and David Caygill are outstanding public servants and are highly esteemed\u2014highly esteemed\u2014but that is a monumental task they have before them. They have made some progress, but what say they have not completed the task? What then? Do we come back to this House and put through more legislation to push it out even further: \u201COh, we need more time. The people of Canterbury\u2014we can\u2019t trust them to elect. We need to have this transitional period for a little bit longer.\u201D? So it goes on and on and on. We have seen this from 2013, and here we are in 2016 with legislation that goes all the way out to 2019. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ENo matter which way you want to construct things, or proscribe things, or prescribe an outcome for the people of Canterbury, ultimately we have to take the decision back to the people and let them have their say as to who will represent them on the regional council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00226a816182d3e640848d2d3eceb234f395\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a816182d3e640848d2d3eceb234f395\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022de280e7dfff540448f9d077119d26da4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de280e7dfff540448f9d077119d26da4\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to hear from the Hon David Parker. He is on the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022143fa1b3eecf463382518d00a0033c48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022143fa1b3eecf463382518d00a0033c48\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to address two of the issues that the Hon Nick Smith raised. Firstly, I heard him say that Environment Canterbury was the worst regional council that there has ever been. I know that my colleague Eugenie Sage is, quite rightly, defensive of the prior council on which she served. But I think I do agree with the Minister\u2014and there is truth in both these propositions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt is right that it was wrong that all those years after the Resource Management Act, Environment Canterbury still did not have an effective water plan in place. It is also true that the most recently elected council, of which Eugenie Sage was part, had actually made more progress towards the creation of a water plan than any of the other prior councils. So I can understand her taking umbrage at some of the generalised criticisms that were made by Nick Smith. Can I say that I do not think you should have taxation without representation. It is a basic precept of democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7b60758a77c4bf69dbb375aa243925e\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: Fundamental.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5cb557c554a412a8138fa52c24009c3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Fundamental, thank you. It is fundamental. It has been so long already that we have had rates being imposed by a council that is not democratic that it is just time to go back to a fully democratic one. I think it is good that David Caygill is actually one of the commissioners standing for the council. All of them could do that if they wanted to continue on in that role, and, actually, I suspect that some of them would get elected, and you could have that continuity in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI want to mention another thing. I am bit tired of Dr Smith pretending that nothing was ever done before he walked the Earth, when in actual fact there was a national policy statement waiting to be implemented mere weeks after the change of Government. Nick Smith shakes his head, and the excuse he normally gives when he speaks is that it was illegal\u2014that the national policy statement that was prepared by the Principal Planning Judge of New Zealand, Judge Sheppard, was somehow in breach of the Resource Management Act, but he has never been willing to release the legal advice to that effect. And if it was illegal because it was prescriptive in what needed to be done in terms of controlling intensity of land use, which is the main reason why water quality has continued to get worse, why did they not change the law then, rather than changing the law now in the Resource Management Act legislation that has just been given a first reading in this House a couple of months ago? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn reality, that is what needed to happen. Actually, what needed to happen was that someone needed to say that things that are clean ought to stay clean and things that are dirty ought to be cleaned up over, say, a generation. And because we know that it is increases in land use intensity, with more irrigation, more fertiliser, more livestock effluent adding the nutrient and faecal chloroform load on waterways\u2014that is what needed to be controlled and has not been. Even now, it is not controlled properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI know that the plan we now have in Environment Canterbury is a lot better, and I am actually pleased that the Minister did appoint those commissioners and clean out a lot of the crap that we have in plans that is unnecessary and makes them complex, as it makes them more readable instruments that actually do what they are meant to do. But even in Canterbury we have still got declining water quality. I was out just a matter of weeks ago fly fishing in the back country of Canterbury. I was there with a friend of mine who uses a fishing guide. The fishing guide said that in the last 3 years he has stopped using rivers like the lower stretches of the \u014Cpihi and other mid - South Canterbury rivers that are continuing to get worse year by year. I was going to say day by day, but that is not right\u2014year by year. The big difference has been that in the last 3 years it has got so bad that he no longer fishes them. He can no longer take people along there to fish them. We saw those photos on Q\u002BA in the weekend. Some of those rivers are being sucked dry, the minimum flows are not high enough, and the water quality controls are not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI am ready to trust our democratically elected environmental people to do their job. I would also note that the good work that these commissioners have done actually has not been because of the national policy statement. That is actually not what has caused them to do what they have done. They have done that notwithstanding the national policy statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ELastly, before I sit down, I think the so-called collaborative processes that we have got under the Land and Water Forum have failed. I know the Land and Water Forum has done some good things, but they are actually lowest common denominator outcomes. It cannot agree on things like pricing. This Ashburton thing where billions of litres of water are going to be bottled at profit with no price imposed\u2014on the Land and Water Forum some wanted to, but they could never agree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe27bbfd03474b0489173e0a4918611f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe27bbfd03474b0489173e0a4918611f\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022eea5bea00058427b8073f61895bfe79d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000346\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 157 in the name of the Hon Dr Nick Smith to clause 4A be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225e3b402eb6054be88fbe64add8894c8c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226cd65134049a49918840483b1b9bec3e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002207078cdd50684c9aa2afe8ea7f1f4e13\u0022\u003EPart 2  Governance arrangements during transition period\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002261b9071a9f8c456d809a95a4dd095c70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261b9071a9f8c456d809a95a4dd095c70\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to speak in this first contribution on clauses 8 and 10. Clauses 8 and 10, of course, are where the transitional governing body is established and the process for electing members to that body. This really is where the substance of this legislation is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThese clauses of the bill were subject to a number of submissions, and the bulk of the submissions that the Local Government and Environment Committee heard\u2014there were 76 submissions from individuals and organisations and 1,076 form-based submissions\u2014objected to the non-democratic mode that was being established under this transitional body. For example, the Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society of New Zealand, in its submission, was opposed to having Government-appointed members on the council, whom the people of Christchurch are expected to trust have their interests at heart without any ability to know whether that is the case. This was just one of many submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat clause 8 of this legislation does is establish that there be seven elected members and six appointed members. This is the part of the legislation where the Minister for the Environment and the Minister of Local Government are able to appoint these members to the body, rather than like in every other part of the country, where electors who are registered to vote get to elect 100 percent of their regional councillors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI would just like to pick up on one of the contributions that the Minister for the Environment made in a previous part of the legislation. He seemed to in no way answer the call as to why a case for a different set of circumstances is required in Canterbury, and I would like to ask the Minister whether or not he has plans for rolling this out any further outside Canterbury because I do not think just the people of Canterbury should be concerned about this legislation. This legislation sets a dangerous precedent, which is that central government takes control of what should be a locally elected council and puts that in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis is not something the Minister will be unaware of because this is, of course, something the Minister did receive some advice on, and we know some of the updates the Minister for the Environment was receiving said the purpose of local government includes \u201Cproviding democratic local decision-making and action. Long-term unconventional arrangements in Canterbury could create a precedent for further ad hoc local governance and service delivery arrangements.\u201D So officials were warning Ministers that there would be a concern this is a precedent-setting set of circumstances that we are putting in place under clause 8 of this legislation on the transitional governing body. I am most eager to hear the Minister in the chair, Nick Smith, talk more about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EMy colleague the member for Mana raised some of the Law Society\u2019s submissions around this very fundamental aspect of who it is who is going to govern the region of Canterbury, its services, and its assets. The Law Society stated that \u201CThe proposed further suspension of full democracy is inconsistent with core constitutional values. The justification for the proposed mixed-model governance structure is not sufficiently convincing and the need for the continuance of appointed Commissioners has not been demonstrated.\u201D I would like to hear the Minister\u2019s response to the Law Society\u2019s raising that in its submission to the select committee, because I think we should not ignore the submissions that came before the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe select committee process was terrible. There was only around a week that was open for people to get their submissions in, and the process was truncated. It is not acceptable when a piece of legislation contains a clause such as clause 8, which is the further suspension of democracy in a region, that a Minister and a Government think it is OK to put that legislation through in a rushed and clumsy process. As I said in an earlier contribution, it is not like the Minister did not know. It had been 3 years since he had last cancelled elections in Canterbury. You would have thought he would have had it marked on his calendar\u2014\u201CTime to cancel elections again in Canterbury.\u201D\u2014and could have planned his time accordingly, but no. Instead, the people of Canterbury did not even get an adequate opportunity to comment on such a fundamental clause as clause 8 of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI would also like to talk about clause 10 now, which is the process for electing members. Of course, once this legislation is enacted, what will happen is there will be a representation, the representation processes will go into place, and the boundaries will be established. In terms of the number of electors, some work has been done on this already. Clause 10 sets this out very clearly in the bill as \u201CSeven elected members of the transitional governing body must be elected at the 2016 election\u2014\u201D. It goes on to say that they must be elected through a first-past-the-post system, and then says \u201COne member must be elected by electors within the districts of the following local authorities (the South Canterbury constituency):\u201D. It goes through and it names the mid-Canterbury constituency and the North Canterbury constituency, but if we look very closely at what Ministers were receiving advice on about the possible numbers in each of these constituencies, we see very clearly the Government\u2019s agenda laid bare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIf you live in Christchurch City, under the Government\u2019s proposed model you will have one regional councillor for every 90,475\u2014no, not you, Mr Chairman. You do not live there. You are lucky enough to have an elected regional council. But for the people of Canterbury who live in Christchurch City, they will have one elected regional councillor for every 90,475 people. That is only four regional councillors for the whole of Christchurch City. But if someone is lucky enough to live in South Canterbury, their representation is somewhat more salubrious. They are going to have greater representation because there will be a regional councillor for every 59,770 electors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI want to hear the Minister take a call and explain the discrepancies in what is otherwise just a good old-fashioned gerrymander. This is nothing more than the Government wanting to stop urban councillors coming in with what it might see as an environmental agenda and asking some questions around the big issues that need to be faced in Canterbury. It shows how short-sighted this Government is, and how out of touch and how arrogant it is. It says one of the justifications for putting in place this gerrymandered council is the need that we have around our water, but it also talks about the functions that have to happen in the recovery, and now the regeneration, of Canterbury. Well, a big part of that has to happen in Christchurch City, and a large part of that function needs to happen within the city. To say there should be only one councillor for every 90,000 electors is simply unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe role that Environment Canterbury has to fulfil in Christchurch City\u2014its functions are now enacted under the Regenerate Christchurch legislation. It can be a proponent of regeneration plans. It has a very core aspect to play. So what we are saying is it is not people from Christchurch City who will be proposing those regeneration plans, because we are going to have under-representation of that core area of the region in this newly constituted body\u2014no, we will have people all from outside Christchurch. So I am very much looking forward to the Minister\u2019s call on how it is that that can be justified. I am also looking forward to the Minister taking a call and answering the Law Society\u2019s criticism of what is being established under clause 8 of this legislation, because these are fundamental and important questions that none of us should take lightly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELet us be very clear. We are standing in this Chamber debating legislation that will further\u2014well, it will not further it, because the vote has already been taken away. But it will do nothing to put in place the democratic rights that the people of Christchurch and Canterbury should consider they have a right to, like any other New Zealander. This is a democratically elected body of people who are debating whether or not a Minister has the power to just override electors and appoint whomever he wants, because this is a Minister who is on the record as saying that democracy is risky. When we have a Minister who thinks democracy is risky, we have in legislation things such as clause 8, which take away the right of Cantabrians to elect their regional council. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022adf1b0cbaa8b4285843257ff5054e87e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adf1b0cbaa8b4285843257ff5054e87e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E For the Committee to take seriously the protestations that are being made by Megan Woods when she says that this is an affront to democracy and that I am all these terrible things, she needs to ask this question: was it an affront to democracy when Helen Clark sacked the Auckland District Health Board? Did that make her a person like Rabuka? Does Labour, in fact, support, as the National Government does, Helen Clark becoming the Secretary-General of the United Nations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275e260629bb94a50a9ddade0f23b0475\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think that\u2019s in the bill, Nick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dc8b413813444d5aad89098852dc7d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and, actually, a person who served this Parliament well? Well, Clayton Cosgrove needs to answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a7b71c86ed740c78a13f656cc4ba715\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Is that in Part 2?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203d63a656d844686a16edf5e3b3703a6\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Because if it is an affront to democracy, and if the actions that the Government has taken in respect of Environment Canterbury are just the same, I would say to Mr Faafoi, as what Rabuka did in Fiji\u2014if he wants to make that analogy, he has to answer the question as to whether it was OK for Helen Clark to sack the elected Auckland District Health Board. Was it OK for David Cunliffe to sack the elected Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board? Was it OK to sack the Rodney District Council? Was it OK to sack the Kaipara District Council? Because the key point that members opposite are not answering is that there is a fundamental difference between a National Government\u2014a sovereign Parliament\u2014and a subsidiary body. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIn exactly the same way, I would put this to members: did democracy come to an end when a Labour Government said that it was no longer appropriate to elect electric power boards? We do not elect electric power boards anywhere in the country any more. Is it fundamentally opposed to democracy, the fact that we no longer elect port companies\u2014that we no longer elect harbour boards, which used to be elected? Actually, this Parliament makes choices all the time about specialist bodies\u2014whether they are managing water, whether they are managing health boards, whether they are managing harbours, whether they are managing schools, or whether they are managing a whole number of subsidiary functions\u2014as to what is the best way to run them, and, in our view, quite appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the sensible contribution from David Parker, who actually acknowledged that the highly skilled commissioners\u2014people like Margaret Bazley, people like Peter Skelton, people like David Caygill\u2014have actually done a very good job of getting on top of the water issues in Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThen the second issue is: why is this extension and this transition necessary? Well, actually, when this Parliament passed the Environment Canterbury legislation, we had no idea that 5 months later Canterbury would be struck by the worst earthquake and the biggest national disaster there has been in the lifetime of most parliamentarians in this Committee today. Actually, that earthquake did change things. For instance, a huge amount of the time and effort of the commissioners had to go into the earthquake issues rather than the water issues. The reality is that the building in which Environment Canterbury operated became completely unsafe, and the whole organisation had to relocate. So for members of the Labour Party to disingenuously claim that nothing changed after the Government\u2019s intervention, which required more time to do the work, is to deny the history of Canterbury the significance of the earthquakes, which made the transition and the issues for Environment Canterbury all the more significant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to take issue with the simply wrong claims\u2014he is wrong on so many occasions\u2014from Clayton Cosgrove, who said a few moments ago that actually there will be more elected members from rural Canterbury than from urban Canterbury. That is not true. The legislation provides for four councillors to be elected from the city of Christchurch and three from the areas of South Canterbury, mid-Canterbury, and North Canterbury. Anybody who knows Canterbury would know that those are well-understood boundaries and that those are the logical areas to be able to bring in those three representatives, covering the areas of South Canterbury, of Ashburton and so on in mid-Canterbury, and of Waimakariri, Hurunui, and Kaik\u014Dura in North Canterbury. It is a logical way in which to bring those representatives in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe two final points I wish to make are these. Members of Labour are saying that it is an affront to democracy and that it is totally wrong to have mixed-member Government bodies. They need to explain why the Labour Government legislated in this Parliament for exactly that structure for the district health boards that operate in every part of this country, and in Canterbury. If they really want to be true to the speeches that they have just given, they will make a commitment in their next speech that every district health board, including Canterbury\u2019s, will be fully elected, because if they do not give that commitment, their contributions are no more than hot air and politics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe very last point I would make is that members have asked the question of why it is that the further 3 years is required\u2014that is, simply, why Canterbury? It has such huge issues over water\u2014far more significant than any other region\u2014that only two of the zones have operative plans. This 3 years\u2014and it is very clear in the paper trail\u2014will enable us to have a fully operative water plan for the part of New Zealand where the water issues are so huge and so significant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe last point I would wish to make is that this provision in the bill says that the Government can appoint up to six commissioners. As I have previously said publicly, the most important issue for the Government is the continuity\u2014the continuity of having those highly skilled commissioners, who have actually done a damned good job of sorting those things through. By having these mechanisms in this part of the bill, it enables us to retain the skills of those people, whom even Labour members acknowledge have been crucial to lifting the game in Canterbury. The Government reserves the right to appoint a lesser number, if they are not required for continuity, to maximise the point of say from the people of Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d392835fce924570aa2a59746adffe7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d392835fce924570aa2a59746adffe7f\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am tired of Minister Nick Smith repeating the comments about commissioners who were appointed in relation to district health boards. They were in place for a much shorter time than these appointed members will be on the regional council. Also, the Minister, again, is being rather mischievous in failing to recognise that district health boards derive all of their income from national taxes. They are Crown agents for the purpose of the Crown Entities Act, which sets out and prescribes their objectives and functions in quite limited terms. Because they are funded totally by taxes, it is then quite different when the Minister appoints representatives there to carry out the Crown\u2019s objectives. Regional councils are different. They are funded largely by rates and through some funding from the National Land Transport Fund, in terms of public transport. That is what the fundamental objection to this legislation is. There is no comparison with district health boards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI think the fact that the Minister keeps coming back to previous Governments having appointed commissioners to replace district health boards for a short period of time shows the emptiness of the Government\u2019s justification for this legislation. It claims\u2014and it has claimed in the discussion document that the Ministry for the Environment put out\u2014that it is essential that we have appointed rather than elected members, because that seems to be the only way that the Government believes that you can encourage strong organisational performance and effective decision-making. What does the Minister and what does the Government think is happening in regional councils around the country, and in district and city councils around the country? For this Parliament, the electorate is trusted to elect competent people to undertake quite complex governance functions, to make decisions with big budgets on complex issues, and yet, somehow in Canterbury just because it is about water, the Government does not trust the people of Canterbury to elect competent councillors to be able to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThat is, again, because the Government has a very extractive agenda. It wants to promote more irrigation and more agricultural intensification. That is the real justification for this bill, and for the Ministers having such massive powers to appoint six members of the council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn Part 2, under clause 15, the members may also be removed at the discretion of the responsible Ministers, the Minister for the Environment and the Minister of Local Government. Those powers are at their complete discretion. There are no constraints on Ministers, having appointed those six members, as to when they would remove them. That means that if the appointed members do not meet the satisfaction of Ministers, they can just be removed, and the Ministers do not even have to give any reasons. This is highly paternalistic and it is highly undemocratic\u2014the powers that we are giving to Ministers in this bill to remove the ability of Cantabrians to elect competent members of their council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe comments that Megan Woods made about the representation\u2014one of the recommendations in the Creech report was that the representation of the city of Christchurch should be reviewed. That is not happening, and the city of Christchurch and Christchurch citizens will be very much under-represented in this new model, and that is why Opposition members have accused the Government of gerrymandering with this bill. It gives much better representation, in terms of the ratio of elected councillors to number of citizens, to those in the rural constituencies than to those in Christchurch. If we look across the country\u2014under this mixed model with the appointed members, we will have one councillor per 90,000 people in Christchurch, and yet an average of one councillor per 82,000 people across Canterbury. In the Waikato there is one elected councillor for every 31,000 people, in the Bay of Plenty there is one councillor for every 21,000 people, and in Wellington there is one councillor for every 38,000-odd people. That is a much more effective and accessible method of local representation than this bill, which is having only one councillor for every 90,475 people in Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis is undemocratic, Minister. The justifications that the Government has given show that it does not really trust democracy at all. Potentially, people in Christchurch may not turn out to vote because why would you vote for councillors around a table when almost half of the other people at the table can have a hot line to the Minister\u2014when councillors can be potentially overruled by the Government appointees? The power is staying in Wellington\u2014it is not being given back to elected members in Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe other issue is just these excuses that the Minister keeps giving by saying that only two of 10 zone committees in Canterbury have developed sub-catchment plans to be part of the regional land and water plan. It is interesting, the double standard. Environment Canterbury, for much of its initial life, struggled with the issue of clean air in Christchurch. That was a major issue for the health of Christchurch people, resulting in additional deaths each year. The elected council focused on air, then it moved to water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Minister has been highly critical of elected councillors for their failure to develop an operative plan, though there was a proposed one, yet now the Minister is giving the same reason\u2014the need for more time\u2014as an excuse to continue the appointment of commissioners, as he was so critical of elected councillors. There is no consistency there. If only two of the 10 sub-catchment plans have been completed by commissioners, how can the Government then say they have done a good job if the commissioners were appointed to improve water management and if the commissioners were appointed to expedite the planning process? Well, they have obviously failed there if only two of these sub-catchment plans have actually been done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00226496156adffd49c1ac62cec302f87590\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226496156adffd49c1ac62cec302f87590\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E That speech by Nick Smith\u2014he is great at bandying words like \u201Cnasty\u201D and various things around\u2014was one of the most disingenuous speeches I have ever heard from that member. He effectively said that one of the reasons the Government extended it in 2013 was that \u201Cthere was an earthquake\u201D, and, yes, they had to relocate offices and those sorts of things. Well, that is not what he said, of course, in speeches to this House and other places in respect of the issues in terms of outstanding water consents and other issues at the time. So to treat Cantabrians with disdain, to treat them like fools, and to use their misery in an earthquake to justify his incompetence or to justify his extension\u2014which he put down to the array of water issues and water consents at the time, not an earthquake\u2014I think, even for him, is a bit low. It is a bit low for that member. It is called clutching at straws, and the Minister needs to read the Standing Orders, because it is our job to ask the Minister questions and it is his job to answer them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn Part 1\u2014and these are the same questions I put, because they are relevant to clause 8. I ask the Minister these questions again. Where is the justification for this extension? Why is it that unlike his colleague Gerry Brownlee, who promoted a piece of legislation as late as last week that gives wide responsibilities to leaders and community leaders in Canterbury\u2014acknowledging that they were good enough, tough enough, and smart enough to step up to the plate, to work in partnership with the Crown, and to take greater responsibility for the earthquake\u2014he brings legislation with a completely contrary view? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EHe is good at throwing around insults, but he is not good at actually answering the particular questions. And I put the question to him again: why does he not have faith? He says he has faith in the commissioners. They are skilled, and I agree with David Parker that they are commendable for many of the things they have done. But they, Minister, also have the opportunity, because they are citizens of New Zealand, to demonstrate, if they so wish, and test those skills and stand in a democratic election if they want to. David Caygill, for instance, a former member in this House and a former Minister, knows elections extremely well, and if he, for instance, wanted to test his mandate, he could stand. I know that he is a man of honour and integrity. Even he does not need to rely, to demonstrate his skills, on a mandate in accountability derived directly from that Minister and his Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut why is it\u2014and if the Minister wants to answer, I will be quite happy to let him do it\u2014that he does not feel there are sufficient numbers of Cantabrians who are bright, intelligent, and smart enough, and who are responsible enough to actually take all the positions, through an election, on a regional council? It is answered, I think, by the fact that many members have quoted him\u2014he said democracy is risky. I think the Minister should reflect on that comment as a person who is elected to this House. He talked about Rabuka in his last contribution\u2014Sitiveni Rabuka and the coup in Fiji. He introduced that. I suspect that at that time Colonial Rabuka viewed democracy as risky. But to bring in that theme as a justification for his stance, saying that democracy is risky, I think says an abundance about him. It is quite bizarre for a member who is elected to this House, who holds a ministerial warrant, and, I presume, believes in the sort of\u2014well, at least in central government terms\u2014constitutional arrangements that we have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI would have thought\u2014sorry, if you are going to say something, you have got to actually articulate, not mouth, the words. Noise has to come out of your mouth, Minister. No, no, speak up\u2014say it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c74030be67684c8d9a54efed3a28853d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Always so nasty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022269185594bdd498bb462825045af5a9c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK. That justifies my point, Minister, because that is your only defence. You are incapable, as a Minister, of actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c36d0311d94f4e408076b61c53b1e2e4\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221967c2577bd54626a495a2d7a1917376\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, he is\u2014not you, Mr Chairman. He is incapable as a Minister of actually answering the questions. If you would like to answer them, I am happy to yield to you. Why is it that you simply do not trust the leadership within the community of Canterbury? Why it is that you use the justification that Environment Canterbury had to relocate its offices? That was one of the reasons the Minister had to go back on his word and extend it for 3 years\u2014because there was an earthquake. I put it to that Minister that we had the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022fda7b12731cc4e2ea82c6221b421990c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fda7b12731cc4e2ea82c6221b421990c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to call\u2014[Interruption]\u2014Denis O\u2019Rourke. But, just before I do, I say that when a member goes for the call, they call out and either I acknowledge them or I do not. All right? You do not just stand up and say something, because that is unacceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00224b932f93712f4d168ba5afc9bb862b79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b932f93712f4d168ba5afc9bb862b79\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I first of all want to refer to clause 8, which is the one that provides for the mixed elected and appointed council\u2014seven elected and six appointed\u2014and I just want to say this. I think that is a risky kind of a council to establish. It is likely to create tensions between those who are appointed and those who are elected. We are likely to get a them-and-us attitude, and it is not going to be positive for an organisation that should actually be representative of the people and not of the Government. So I will leave that there. I have said that I think it is a bad idea. I have said that it is likely to be dysfunctional, and I think it will be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI want to go on and say this about clause 8(1)(a). In the first version of the bill it referred to only \u201C7 elected members;\u201D, but now it refers to \u201Cno fewer than 4 and no more than 7 elected members;\u201D. So it is envisaged that there will be, in some circumstances, fewer than seven elected members at a particular time, although under clause 8(1)(b) there will be up to six appointed members and there could, therefore, be at any particular time a majority, in fact, of appointed people and not of elected people. I presume the reason why this clause has been drafted in the way it is is that it would provide for deaths or resignations of elected people, and that is fair enough. But why is it not drafted to preserve the majority of elected people over appointed people at all times? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe Ministers could suspend any particular appointed person or persons in order to maintain a majority of elected people, and that is what should have been done in the bill. Otherwise, the Government, and the Ministers, are accepting the possibility\u2014in fact, almost the inevitability\u2014that there could be, at a particular time, a majority of appointed people over elected ones, because many councils have either deaths or resignations for some reason or another during a 3-year term. So I think that is a problem in the bill that simply has not been addressed, and perhaps the Minister in the chair would like to comment on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI want to move on, however, to the reference in clause 11(2), which deals with appointed members and the need for skills. It seems to me that this is one of the main reasons why the Government believes that there needs to actually be appointed members at all. But when you look at it, this is what it actually says. It says that those skills are: \u201C(a) the management of fresh water;\u201D. Well, that is not exclusive to appointed members. In fact, there are many, many very skilled and experienced people in Canterbury who could be elected to represent the need for a skill in the management of fresh water. Clause 11(2)(b) states: \u201Clocal authority governance and management;\u201D. Actually, you would find more people with those skills amongst elected people than you would amongst appointed people. So that does not hang very well. Subclause (2)(d) refers to knowledge of \u201Cthe Canterbury region and its people.\u201D Again, I would have thought that elected people would have greater skills than appointed people, as far as the knowledge of the Canterbury region and its people is concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ESo these reasons really do not make much sense and do not justify the need for appointed people at all. Perhaps the Minister could explain that. What he has said is that what the Government wants is continuity. Well, what is the magic about continuity? The real issue is not continuity; the real issue is having a mix of skills. In fact, that is what the bill says, not what the Minister says. If continuity was the issue, why is that not in the bill? In fact, what is in the bill is about skills, but, as I have just said, that does not actually make sense in justifying the need for appointed people, at all. So I think the Government\u2019s whole argument actually crashes to the ground right there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI want to go on and mention this. Clause 11(4) refers to the validity of appointed members not being affected if they do not actually have those skills. Well, if you are going to have that subclause there, why is the whole thing there at all? In fact, why are there any appointed members at all, if they do not have to have those skills, by authority, under subclause (4)? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI also want to talk about subclause (1A), which relates to Ng\u0101i Tahu representation. This is where we in New Zealand First depart from all of the other parties in the Committee. We think that having Ng\u0101i Tahu representation, especially as many as two members, on Environment Canterbury is wrong in principle. We think that having any appointed members is wrong in principle. We think, quite apart from that, that the appointment to an elected body of people, or even a partly elected body of people, based on their race or on their ethnicity is fundamentally wrong. We would oppose the bill for that reason alone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThere should be no appointed people on elected bodies. It compromises the effectiveness of those bodies and it compromises the fact that they are democratic and should operate democratically. We would support, however, an advisory body of Ng\u0101i Tahu people, the views of whom, for example, must be taken particular notice of by Environment Canterbury in making its decisions. But actual membership by appointment to an elected body is wrong, and New Zealand First would definitely always oppose that. We know that other parties do not have that position, but we do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EFor all of those reasons, I would say that this bill should not be passed. But, again, I would just repeat this: the Minister has said that continuity is the big deal. He has not said why, really, when in fact that is not in the bill at all. What is in the bill is the need for skills. In the bill, the skills required are specified, but, in fact, you will get those skills through the election of people, and probably better through the election of people, than you would by appointment. I would like the Minister to try to say why, having regard to all of that, we actually need appointed members at all. Why not just go straight to an elected body this year and be done with it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022fae6f48482f04923bafa6a56a2bca60d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fae6f48482f04923bafa6a56a2bca60d\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc761514407f4c5da4d631be11ca3e4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc761514407f4c5da4d631be11ca3e4e\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E What this Government will not say is that the justification for the extension of non-democracy in this bill is the continuation of central government\u2019s control over regional government. That is what this Government will not say. It is pathetic to over and over again hear members of this Government\u2014including the Minister in the chair today, the Hon Nick Smith, and the Prime Minister earlier today\u2014get up and say that just because the previous Labour Government did something at some point in the past, then that is justification for whatever it is doing now, in the present, with no rational discussion around it, no evidence base, and nothing that is actually sensible to go with it. It is just saying \u201CLook, Labour over there.\u201D, then: \u201CIgnore what we are doing here.\u201D It is pathetic, and it happens almost every day in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWe know that there is a terrible process that has gone into this bill\u2014my remarks in my contribution will be directed to clause 10(1), (2), (3), (4), and (5)\u2014that has not allowed the public proper time for submissions on the actual bill. We know that the submitters were overwhelmingly opposed to this bill, and that is why we are describing it as an affront to democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI want to take us back to look at when this bill actually came to the Local Government and Environment Committee and at some of the information that informed it, with direct reference to clause 10, \u201CProcess for electing members\u201D. The regulatory impact statement, which was prepared by the Department of Internal Affairs and the Ministry for the Environment, noted in the summary that public consultation on what actually appears in this bill was confined to only the proposal for the preferred option of a mixed-model governance structure, rather than the range of options. There were, I think, three options in the original regulatory impact statement, but the actual public consultation was confined to only this mixed-model governance structure. The questions in the discussion document encouraged comment on the other solutions. Some submitters did so, but those ministries said it limited the ability to present full community views on other options. They also said\u2014and this goes directly to the Minister\u2019s comments when he spoke before\u2014that although this mixed-model governance structure is based on a district health board model, the proposed governance model has an element of uncertainty as to its effectiveness, as it has not been used previously in a local government context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThat is the point. Although the Minister gets up and says \u201COh, well, Labour did something in the past and, by the way, it\u2019s based on a district health board model.\u201D, the thing is that it is uncertain as to whether or not that would work for a regional council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhen the original consultation occurred, there were 13 submissions received from local authorities\u2014nine Canterbury councils and the Horizons Regional Council, the Waikato Regional Council, the Otago Regional Council, and the Canterbury Mayoral Forum. As you would expect, six of those nine submissions received from the Canterbury councils\u2014and, of course, these are the ones that are going to get representation under this mixed-model governance structure, as is referenced in clause 10. Of the seven elected members, three of them are going to be from those regional Canterbury councils. They supported the mixed-model proposal, but only five supported it as it was set out in the discussion document. The Ashburton District Council was concerned about the ratio of elected members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u002295ce58fb9b044f7cb8467f71fe55fd99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295ce58fb9b044f7cb8467f71fe55fd99\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a short call on Part 2 of the Environment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements) Bill. I would like to speak to two points specifically. One is, I think, that the concept of this undermining and removing of our democracy\u2014even more than being an affront to it\u2014has been quite well canvassed, but I do want to talk about that a little bit more. I would also like to talk about the concept of subsidiarity. In terms of local government in New Zealand, there are two core concepts that govern the ruling of local government, and they are democracy and subsidiarity, which is the localised decision-making and devolved powers. That is quite commonly understood as good governance, and this legislation is messing with that, to put it bluntly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWith this bill, the responsible Ministers from here in Wellington will get to appoint six members representing the perspectives of those two appointing Ministers from being based here. Neither of them are based in Canterbury, and there is no requirement for at least four of those members to be of that area. Of course, two will be nominated by Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu, and that is a provision that the Green Party actually supported. But there is no question that this bill is a compromise on the core principle of subsidiarity, which is that local decision-making is more likely to produce better results, and that people who are embedded in a community and who are accountable to the community they are representing are more likely to produce better governance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI do want to point out, too, that in Part 2 the Ministers have the discretion to remove appointed members at any time, and that includes the members who have been nominated by Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu. The Ministers would be required to only consult before they do that. Really, that is a lot of control. It is also, I would suggest, a removal of the stability for the area, that there cannot be\u2014we know at the moment that people are elected and that it is actually quite a disincentive for people to leave while they still have a position because they know they will be forcing an election if they leave before their term is up, whereas this legislation is enabling Ministers to remove somebody if they are not doing what those Ministers like and to just put somebody else in. We have no guarantee of the people\u2019s control, but we also do not have a guarantee of stability, whereas one of the Minister for the Environment\u2019s arguments for this entire transitional model is to ensure continuity. Actually, for us, there is no guarantee of that continuity. This legislation, I think, gives us less assurance of continuity than if we had elected members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI do want to just again speak to that point of democracy. Although the Government has provisions in here that focus on skills and expertise, it has to be pointed out that there are council staff who could provide skill and expertise alongside the voice and the decision making of democratically elected people. There have also been changes\u2014which we did not necessarily support\u2014to the Local Government Act that enable the Minister to appoint observers to sit alongside councils, so that the Government can have that assurance if it has concerns about the functioning of a council. That could also provide that so-called continuity. No justification that makes any sense to me has been made to say why we need to have six out of 13 members appointed. I have not heard any case to say why the people of Canterbury do not deserve their democracy back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed5a9cfedb40405f8dc915dadd12b47c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed5a9cfedb40405f8dc915dadd12b47c\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to make a contribution on Part 2. I want to just pick up on the points that Mr O\u2019Rourke make in relation to clause 11(1A) and (1B). Those provisions give Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu the right to appoint two members to this transitional body. I do want to commend the majority of the Local Government and Environment Committee for their support of the insertion of those provisions because, notwithstanding the deep concern that I have around the principle of full democracy for the people of Canterbury, I do support the principle of mana whenua representation at the regional council level on Environment Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI do not necessarily want to try to lecture Mr O\u2019Rourke\u2014we have different views and we represent different constituencies\u2014but it is fundamental, and this was recognised by the committee itself, that Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu is the tribal authority over 80 percent of Te Wai Pounamu, the South Island. It has significant interests in the management of Canterbury\u2019s natural resources. It goes without saying that Canterbury is part of who we are as a people. The landscapes, the mountains, the rivers, the land, the coast, the sea\u2014all of that is just part and parcel of mana whenua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThere has long been jurisprudence and, most recently, Treaty settlements that affirm those rights. That has been continued in the positive relationship the Crown has\u2014no matter which Government is in power; no matter which parties\u2014to ensure that we promote and support those Treaty relationships. So I do support the insertion of those provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBut my question, I guess, is: where to after 3 years? What will mana whenua representation be, at a regional council level, after 2019? At the moment, Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu has been intimately involved in the first phase of commissioners, through the requirement that there be expertise in tikanga M\u0101ori and also knowledge of the Canterbury area\u2014well, you can only really go to Ng\u0101i Tahu for that. That has been reaffirmed in the provisions in clause 11, which I have been referring to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBut where to from there? There is now a precedent that has been set, a wonderful precedent, whereby the mana whenua have been recognised to appoint representatives on to the regional council, on to Environment Canterbury. I am sure that every other iwi up and down the country will now be wanting to have the exact same rights, and rightly so\u2014rightly so. If it is good enough for those from Ng\u0101i Tahu to be able to appoint two out of a hybrid type of transitional body, every other iwi will have the right to assert that they have the exact same status. They can actually add their contribution to enhance the decision making that goes on at that level, and that is all M\u0101ori have ever wanted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe want to be equal partners in the decision making that goes on at all levels of Aotearoa. This provision does that to an extent, but it sets a very, very strong precedent for every other iwi and every other regional council across the country as to what can happen. We have seen this in the recognition for Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu through similar legislation, like the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority legislation and the legislation that we passed just last week to regenerate Christchurch, as well. It has carried on into\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5ef4cad1f034bd7990dc8b85463672f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5ef4cad1f034bd7990dc8b85463672f\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022d83dddb7fc804bcf8a0f0d41c23d6d98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d83dddb7fc804bcf8a0f0d41c23d6d98\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not going to accept the closure motion now because to date there has been, I think it is fair to say, fierce debate and debate with slightly different alliances and with members of parties with different points of view. I do not think that we have had much repetition, and, actually, the speeches have mainly been relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00228eb880d4c27e4a5ea9e6dcaaf8a568a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228eb880d4c27e4a5ea9e6dcaaf8a568a2\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, I hope that I can continue the relevancy that you have just commented on. I do want to pick up where my colleague Rino Tirikatene finished his speech, because he did want to make one point. The point around clause 11(1A), and potentially a question that I have for the Minister in the chair, Nick Smith, is that, yes, it is an improvement on this piece of legislation that two of the members appointed to the Environment Canterbury board must be recommended by Ng\u0101i Tahu. The principle on this side is that we do not agree with having Government appointees to this board and so we will not be supporting that, but the inclusion of Ng\u0101i Tahu representation is an improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EMr Tirikatene talked about a precedent being set here. Actually, I think the precedent was set in a piece of legislation that went through this House last week, the Greater Christchurch Regeneration Bill, where we saw much more consultation from the Government with the people of Canterbury. It was not just with Ng\u0101i Tahu; there was also an onus put on Regenerate Christchurch to seek wider input about things that it wants to do in Christchurch. My question to the Minister is: why is there not the same spirit in this piece of legislation? I think the Local Government and Environment Committee made a good start to it by including Ng\u0101i Tahu within the realms of clause 11, but why did you not go further? Why did you not use the template used by Gerry Brownlee in the Greater Christchurch Regeneration Bill to include and to allow more of a local voice, when you had started that process with clauses 11(1A) and 11(1B)? Clauses 11(1A) and (1B) operationalise the ability for the Government to appoint up to six members to the Environment Canterbury board\u2014something for which a case had been made in Part 1, an argument that we disagree with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAs the Chair has said, there has been a lot of fierce debate within this Committee. There has also been debate by people who have submitted, and also some facts have been pointed out by officials around the dubious nature of not putting this out to a wider vote, a complete vote, for Cantabrians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI mentioned some passages of the regulatory impact statement in my Part 1 speech, but I think the departmental disclosure statement in this instance is helpful here. It talks about concerns that the officials had about the objectives of the reform around the Government appointees in clauses 11(1A) and (1B), saying that these \u201Ccontain clear trade-offs between perceptions of efficiency and environmental stewardship, and local democratic accountability.\u201D It goes on to say that \u201CThese are difficult to balance without objective information about previous and potential regulatory outcomes, so the assessment of options largely relies on subjective valuations.\u201D, which the Government obviously thinks rests on its side of the argument. It goes on to say that \u201CThe fact that no alternative options were consulted on, and that proposals from stakeholders have received limited consideration, suggests that the full range of feasible options has not been examined.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIn plain English, that is saying that the inclusion of clause 11(1A) and (1B), which allows the Government to appoint up to six commissioners to the Environment Canterbury board, is something that the Government has blindly done and that it did not look at any other options. It did not look at full democracy\u2014it did not look at putting it out to the people of Canterbury. It made up its mind at the very beginning to put in this clause 11(1A) and (1B), which says that three members must be appointed by the responsible Ministers no later than 28 days after the transition day\u2014I think that means when the other six members are elected\u2014and that they can appoint three more under clause 11(1A) and (1B).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI would also like to pose to the Minister another question, around the intention of the appointment of board members. During his speeches from the chair he has said that it is about continuity, but back in 2010 it was something a lot different to continuity. If I can quote the Minister, he said: \u201CThe extent of the gap between the capability of ECan and what is required for it to adequately manage freshwater issues is enormous and unprecedented.\u201D Fair enough\u2014the Government can have that concern. He went on to say that \u201CA very large backlog of outstanding issues needs to be addressed before water management in the region reaches\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u002216608ece0e8141828da683caba8cdcbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216608ece0e8141828da683caba8cdcbe\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E I have got three points that I want to raise with regard to Part 2 of the Environment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements) Bill on this, the governance structure in the mixed model. They are three points that nobody else has raised in this Committee. The first point is that this legislation will undermine individual participation and the right of people to participate. The second point I would make is that this legislation will undermine local democracy and undermine the role of local government. The third point I would make is that this legislation will undermine our environmental protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EBefore I get on to those three points, I do want to say that I am happy to stand with my colleagues from the Canterbury region\u2014Dr Megan Woods, Clayton Cosgrove, Poto Williams, the Hon Ruth Dyson, and Rino Tirikatene\u2014to oppose this bill. It is important that we oppose this bill, and I will tell you why. I do not know very much about Canterbury. I do not know about Christchurch\u2014I have visited it, and I have got contacts there\u2014but I do know when I see injustice being done. The source of injustice is not the people of Canterbury; it is the Minister for the Environment, the Hon Nick Smith, and I will tell you why. I like the Minister\u2014on a personal level he is a nice man\u2014but his politics give all of us politicians a bad name, and I will tell you why. It is because this is the third time that we are in this House repealing previous legislation and enacting other legislation to continue his control over Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThat is the first point: this legislation and this mixed-model Government structure undermine the right of individuals to participate. I will give you an example: Father Paulo of the Samoan Catholic Church in Christchurch. I asked him the other day: \u201CAre you aware of what is happening with your local council, with Environment Canterbury?\u201D. He said: \u201CNo. We just do not participate now because the Government has taken full control.\u201D He is actually right. The Government has taken full control because the make-up of this governance model is not completely as it should be\u2014of representatives elected by the people. So in so far as Father Paulo and other communities in that area are concerned, they have been kept from participating because the Government has sent a very clear message\u2014and it has been a consistent message since 2010, 2013, and now 2016\u2014that it is in control and that the public of Canterbury does not have a role to play in this, and that it is this Government and it is this Minister who will determine how Environment Canterbury will be run. So that is the first point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe second point, as I said, is that this legislation actually weakens local democracy and it weakens the role of local government. I point to the regulatory impact statement where it says that this is a \u201CNew and untested \u2026 structure, and could generate uncertainty\u201D. Local government plans way ahead in time\u2014not from 3 years to 3 years. In fact, we gave it a piece of legislation where we said to it: \u201CYou have got to plan long term.\u201D We are not giving local government any certainty, because we are saying now what we said back in 2010-11, which was \u201CYou will have this model up to 2019.\u201D, but there is no certainty at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ELet me give you another example. The regulatory impact statement says that there will be \u201CSignificant change in local government powers; risks of blurred or unclear accountability\u201D. That is the risk identified by the regulatory impact statement. The Minister said earlier that this is the same model that we use for the district health boards. That is like comparing apples with oranges. This is local government, which is run on the rates or the taxes that are paid for by the citizens of that area. The district health boards are funded from a ministry of the National Government. What will happen here is you have got two sources of accountability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228383002f2e204800a1c1d0b8ea2652ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228383002f2e204800a1c1d0b8ea2652ee\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227871ae0e6e464f6b9b5c099c33a6f477\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022884208adbf1d4d44baf0458121b93ee3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227eddaaae4b45402798d6e324c5f1ab53\u0022\u003EPart 3  RMA arrangements during transition period\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00227c2c239396c3455196335271f40e5ef4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c2c239396c3455196335271f40e5ef4\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I want to talk particularly about clause 23, which I will read. It says: \u201CIn considering any proposed fresh water plan or regional policy statement during the transition period, Environment Canterbury must have particular regard to the vision and principles of the Canterbury Water Management Strategy in addition to the matters relevant under the RMA to its decisions made under clause 10(1) of Schedule 1 of that Act.\u201D Clause 19 has a similar effect. What it basically does is entrench the Canterbury Water Management Strategy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI want to tackle Minister Nick Smith over this, because when I was speaking earlier and I said that was the case, he was shaking his head as though this is not the case. In fact, the Canterbury Water Management Strategy is entrenched in this bill, which, therefore, calls into question why you need appointed members in order to protect the Canterbury Water Management Strategy. Perhaps the Minister could explain to us all, when the bill specifically does entrench that strategy\u2014which is, in fact, there, which is, in fact, in operation, which is, in fact, being observed, and which is entrenched in this bill\u2014why it is now necessary to have appointed members so that that can be protected. That simply does not make any sense to me at all, because it is already in existence. I think that the Minister and the Government\u2019s rationale for the need for appointed members actually fall apart because of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EIn fact, what could have been done with this bill is that it could have established a fully elected regional council without any appointed members and still have clauses 23 and 19 in order to entrench the Canterbury Water Management Strategy, which is, really, the whole crux of the entire process: to make sure that there was an effective water management strategy for Canterbury. The Minister has said so, and everybody else has said so\u2014well, actually, it is there. It is in operation and, in this bill, is being entrenched. So, again, I ask the Minister: why, then, are you insisting on appointed members?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002283d68d70de934ed4bce37aa31f222ffe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283d68d70de934ed4bce37aa31f222ffe\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E In Part 3 I would like to take a call on clauses 24, 25, and 26, which set out the appeal rights that exist under this legislation. These parts of the legislation were subject to a number of submissions at the select committee phase, and the people who did take the opportunity to submit on these clauses and the appeal rights that are contained in this legislation were very much opposed to the limiting of the powers of appeal rights. What this legislation does is carry over some provisions that were there under the previous legislation that defined regional governance in Canterbury\u2014the Environment Canterbury (Temporary Commissioners and Improved Water Management) Act 2010\u2014and it replaces requirements in section 55 under that Act. What it does is take away from Cantabrians the rights that everyone else around the country has, and that is the right to make appeals to the Environment Court. What this legislation puts in place is that these appeals need to be to the High Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis is not some small, dry technicality buried in the 20-something clauses of a piece of legislation; this fundamentally changes the way in which people can interact with the decision that their local regional council is making. As we all know, the Environment Court is a special court in New Zealand. Not only does it have specialist judges but also it is assisted by specialist commissioners who have expertise in resource management, in planning, in environmental planning, in engineering, and in science who can be called in. This is a court that can take a much more inquisitorial approach to any appeal that is put before it, unlike the High Court, where these appeals will be on matters of law only. Whereas people in other parts of the country can go and appeal a decision of their regional council and what it is doing on the basis of the substance and the facts of what is actually happening, Cantabrians are limited in their appeal rights to only matters of law. This fundamentally changes the way in which this legislation operates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis is, of course, a change that Minister Nick Smith, who is sitting in the chair, has been wanting to get across the line in terms of the Resource Management Act throughout the country, but he has been unable to get that across the line with his support partners. So what he is doing here, in clauses 24, 25, and 26, is trying to impose it in some kind of pilot study on Cantabrians. I do not think it is good enough that just because the Minister cannot get his resource management legislation over the line in this Parliament, he decides that Canterbury is some kind of Petri dish where he can put in place different kinds of appeal provisions, such as we are seeing in clauses 24, 25, and 26 of this legislation. I would like the Minister to take a call and explain to us why it is that Cantabrians will have lesser appeal rights than their contemporaries and their compatriots in other parts of the country, because this does have far-ranging impacts on how it is that Cantabrians are going to interact with their regional council, and what their rights are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI would also like the Minister to talk about what alternatives might be available to Cantabrians to take an appeal to the High Court, because, whereas someone could access funding through the environmental legal aid fund, which was established to aid people in taking appeals to the Environment Court, will there be a similar fund for Cantabrians who want to appeal a decision that is made under this piece of legislation but are forced to take that appeal to the High Court on a matter of law, which is a much more expensive process and, actually, will limit people\u2019s ability to have access to justice around this? Will there be a similar fund to the legal aid fund that is available for people taking cases to the Environment Court?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis is about access to justice. We are seeing that this is a Government that is eager to shut down people\u2019s access to the courts and their ability to get their day in court and to have those questions answered, in many aspects of Christchurch and Canterbury at the moment. I would like the Minister to take a call on that, and I look forward to hearing from him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022c68f11dc3f934527ad626587b01c9376\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c68f11dc3f934527ad626587b01c9376\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to be able to answer the questions that both Denis O\u2019Rourke and Megan Woods have asked about Part 3 of the Environment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements) Bill. Can I deal, firstly, with the issue of the Canterbury Water Management Strategy, of which I think both Mr O\u2019Rourke and I share the view that it was a good piece of work. It was developed collaboratively by the people of Canterbury. It was actually developed by a large amount of work from the mayors and the other councils in Canterbury because they were so frustrated about a lack of progress on water management by the previous Environment Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut here is the key point that Mr O\u2019Rourke has missed: the Canterbury Water Management Strategy has no legal status. You can have a strategy\u2014sure, you can have a strategy\u2014but it has absolutely no legal effect unless it is recognised in law. We recognised it in law in 2010 with the Environment Canterbury legislation and we are recognising it here as a document that Environment Canterbury needs to take into account as it completes the exercise of putting water rules in place in Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022225ffba6a6a643738cc54cfef81c4a2a\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. They are the basis of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f57370b5b5fa48d6825681957bd38d86\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: If Mr O\u2019Rourke\u2019s position is actually to take effect, what he is effectively saying is \u201CGreat. Canterbury has a water management strategy but it has absolutely no legal status anywhere.\u201D, and that, to me, seems an extremely illogical position. I challenge him. If he really believes in the Canterbury Water Management Strategy he will vote for this bill, because it is the only way of giving it any legal status in the management of water under the Resource Management Act. That can be done only with this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI now want to come to the question that has been raised by Megan Woods. It is an important one. It is around the appeal rights and it goes to the heart of the challenge around water in Canterbury. You see, under the existing schedule 1 process of the Resource Management Act the average time for getting a plan in place is 8 years, Actually, in the water area it has been even longer than that\u2014more like 15 years\u2014and here is the challenge for Parliament: can Canterbury wait 7 to 15 years to get some rules in place for fresh water? I do not think any member in this Chamber would honestly say that is true. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIf I listen to the questions of Labour environment spokesperson, David Parker, in the Chamber today, what he is rightly arguing is that, actually, we need to get some rules around agricultural intensification and other things a lot more quickly than that. But here is the dilemma for Labour members. They cannot argue in one breath that we cannot have any change in the process of submissions, of cross-submissions, and appeals on putting water plans in place. You cannot have that position and simultaneously argue that you want to get some progress urgently made on getting some constraints and some rules on the water pollution issues in a region like Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThat is why\u2014and this is the hybrid, and I openly say to the Parliament that it is a hybrid\u2014we want to be able to appoint people with judicial skills on to Environment Canterbury over the next 3 years. I pay absolute tribute in this Chamber to the work of Environment Canterbury commissioner Peter Skelton, one of New Zealand\u2019s most experienced Environment Court judges. We appointed him on to the commission so that we could have a hybrid process of judicial rights, judicial skills, and other skills in a single-step process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ee87697b1b84756bb1ac875709ca26b\u0022\u003EDr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: That is horrifying. That is not an appeal right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a385384ffa749fa9e2fa2907640bc68\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: That is what we are doing with this bill quite deliberately, I say to Megan Woods. We do not have time in Canterbury to have the normal long schedule 1 process to get not just the natural resources plan, which the commissioners have done, but the specific rules for each of the catchments of Canterbury. The best way, we believe, to do that is to have a hybrid process, not have appeals to the Environment Court but ensure that you have got people like Peter Skelton on the process of setting those rules, region by region, so we can actually get the rules in place. That is where Part 3 in providing for no appeals to the Environment Court is the quid pro quo to ensuring that the Government can appoint those judicial skills and make sure that we get these rules in place once\u2014but that we get it right\u2014and in my view that is the best way forward for Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u002218d493c300b64f81a46543d2d2d86916\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218d493c300b64f81a46543d2d2d86916\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I think that last speech by the Minister for the Environment shows what a muddle we are getting into with resource management in New Zealand. As I understand what he was saying, it was that people with judicial experience will be appointed as the commissioners on Environment Canterbury. They will be hearing the submissions on the plans, and yet, under the resource legislation, the changes that the Minister is making to the Resource Management Act are aimed at reducing the role of elected councillors in making decisions on plan submissions. So we are going to get completely different regimes around the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn this call I would like to talk specifically about the plan-making provisions in clause 19 of the Environment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements) Bill, because what the Local Government and Environment Committee did was restrict the scope of this clause slightly so that it applied only to freshwater plans and the regional policy statement, though I suspect there will be debate about what happens with estuaries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Government has been very mischievous here. At the same time as the Minister has criticised the elected council for being too slow, the Government is now giving this hybrid model 9 years, until 2019, and giving the commissioners 9 years to develop new plans, and yet it is not just shutting off the appeal rights for plans that the second-class model has finalised\u2014it has heard the submissions, it has made the decisions, and then it has said there is no ability to appeal to the Environment Court\u2014but it is also shutting off the appeal rights to the Environment Court for plans that the regional council has simply notified before they have gone through that whole submission and hearing process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo it means that this bill is going to extend its impact way beyond 2019, because Environment Canterbury will be able to notify any freshwater plans in the dying days of the hybrid model in mid-2019, and the public in Canterbury still will not be able to appeal that plan because of the effect of this legislation applying to notified plans and not just to plans on which the council has made decisions. To me that highlights the Government\u2019s desire to absolutely control the way in which plan making is done in Canterbury, and the way in which the rule regime will work to ensure that you get a regime that irrigators and water users like, rather than one that actually protects fresh water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe have seen, with the collaborative process that the Minister is so proud of in Canterbury, environmental organisations and Fish and Game being highly critical of that being captured by irrigators, and users walking away from the process. And so the decisions on what the plan should be will be made increasingly by zone committees and the council, with appointed members on it. It will not have the check, which appeal rights to the Environment Court provide, for everybody to be able to challenge those provisions because, as Megan Woods has noted, there is no appeal right to the Environment Court, only on points of law to the High Court, which is a much more circumscribed process. So not only is this bill about undermining local democracy but in this part it is also about constraining access to justice by removing the ability to appeal to the Environment Court, not only between now and 2019 but well beyond that, for all of those plans that Environment Canterbury may notify in the last dying days of the hybrid model in 2019. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe other issue I would like to talk about in this part is clause 21, about water conservation orders. There was a report in 2011 by the New Zealand Conservation Authority, which the Minister will be familiar with, that highlighted that we have not done enough in New Zealand to protect our rivers and lakes and waterways. The Resource Management Act and the definition of sustainable management is about use, development, and protection, but too much of the decision making and the plan making focuses on use and development and very little of it focuses on protection. Water conservation orders have been the major mechanism that Fish and Game and conservation groups have used to implement a degree of protection, particularly around flows rather than water quality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis Government, with the principal Act, totally overrode the provision for a water conservation order for the magnificent Hurunui River. It retrospectively prevented the Environment Court from hearing appeals on that water conservation order, and now, in clause 21, the Government is providing for the same processes that apply around the rest of New Zealand to again apply in Canterbury. We should welcome that, because it is one area where Canterbury is not being singled out for a second-class regime. But\u2014and there is a big \u201Cbut\u201D here\u2014at the same time as the Minister is giving back the law around water conservation orders to Canterbury, rather than the weakened regime that exists in the principal Act where he had the provisions around development having to be given greater weight than the normal Resource Management Act requirements in Part 9 of the Act, which are much more about the protection of outstanding values, in the Resource Legislation Amendment Bill that is a major attack on water conservation orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo we will get it back in Canterbury for a short time, and then it will be taken away if the Resource Legislation Amendment Bill goes through. Minister Nick Smith is shaking his head, but, Minister, in the Resource Legislation Amendment Bill you are making the requirements of Part 9 subservient to the development requirements of other provisions in the Act. That is fundamentally weakening water conservation orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo, once again, this Government, in this bill, is undermining the protection provisions of the Resource Management Act. It is removing access to justice in terms of the independent Environment Court. So that means that the decisions that the zone committees and this new hybrid council make on plans will have much greater weight. They will be less able to be challenged, because of the removal of that appeal right. It is weakening the protection provisions in the Resource Management Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00225a44204e6f584e958cfb8094f84cc99c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a44204e6f584e958cfb8094f84cc99c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to refer to clauses 24 and 25 in respect of appeal rights, particularly clause 24(3), and revisit some of the arguments that the previous two speakers have noted. I want to note the comments that the Minister made in respect of former Environment Court judge Peter Skelton. He quite rightly pointed out that Judge Skelton is one of New Zealand\u2019s pre-eminent environmental justices, a man with huge skill and a history in these particular issues. Then, on the other hand, he was silent, or tried to justify\u2014I cannot recall which\u2014the taking away of appeal rights to the specialist and highly skilled Environment Court, which, as others have said, is highly qualified and far more qualified, I would argue, than the High Court. It has a process that is inquisitorial and far less prescriptive than the High Court, where you can deal with substantive issues and not just appeal on matters of law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo again we see a sort of inherent contradiction. On the one hand, the Minister acknowledges that he wants people of skill, in the form of Judge Skelton, and I accept that. He justifies that because he wants people who know what they are doing. He wants people who are embedded and have a history of influence, who are in Judge Skelton\u2019s place\u2014an eminent jurist in respect of environmental matters. But, of course, he then says: \u201CWell, if you want to appeal, sorry. We\u2019re not going to allow you to appeal, like every other person can, outside the Environment Canterbury boundaries, around New Zealand, to the specialist court and jurisdiction, the Environment Court\u2014no. The parties will only be able to appeal to the High Court and those appeals will only be on points of law.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo the question I have for Minister Nick Smith is: what is the justification for that? Like other questions we have put to the Minister in respect of the extension to 2019 and the justification for that, there has been no answer to it. So on the one hand you want\u2014quite logical\u2014specialist people, experienced people, people with the inherent legal skills that you require to make decisions on these issues, and on the other hand you say: \u201CNo, we\u2019re not going to allow parties to be exposed to the court of record, the specialist Environmental Court that has been set up for many, many years, specifically to deal with those issues.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI grant you, I am sure there are a number of High Court judges\u2014all High Court judges I am sure would argue that they can decide matters across any jurisdiction. That is the function of a High Court judge. However, you would have to argue that issues of a technical nature, that are of a specific environmental nature, should reside within the Environment Court. Otherwise why have it? Why bother? Get rid of it and just ensure that the court of record is the High Court, to deal with all issues, technical and otherwise. They could do that but I do not think that would be logical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo the question for the Minister is: why is there a contradiction? What is the justification for limiting appeals, or for preventing appeals, I should say, from going to the Environment Court and requiring them to go to the High Court as in clause 24(3)? What is the point? I would argue that, just like the constriction around democracy, this is about control. Just like the notion that Cantabrians cannot be trusted to elect good leadership from within their community, without being babysat by commissioners, this is about control. This is about control and limiting the rights of people, both in a democratic sense but, as other speakers have said, in respect of access to justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThey are pretty heavy actions to take as a Government. We could make reference to other jurisdictions, as has been referenced, actually, by the Minister, quite bizarrely\u2014his reference to Sitiveni Rabuka and the Fiji coup, in a former speech in the last hour or so. In other jurisdictions that do not value democracy as we in this Parliament in New Zealand do, those jurisdictions are more likely to embark down these sorts of paths where you halt elections, where you appoint Government folk who are not accountable to those people who elect them\u2014they are accountable to Ministers in a Government\u2014and you restrict the ability of people to exercise their legal rights and, more especially, their appeal rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Minister, in answer to some of those questions, especially around the issues that I have posed, cited district health boards and said: \u201CWell, you know\u201D\u2014the usual sort of stuff\u2014\u201CLabour sacked a district health board, and x, y, and z, and how can we get up and have the views we do?\u201D. Well, there are times in Government when you do actually have to sack some people if they are not actually performing. We would acknowledge that. That is a logical thing to do. But in respect of the district health boards, there are a couple of differences. The first is that those district health boards were then rapidly reinstated. The same\u2014the Minister mentioned in his speech\u2014goes for the sacking of school boards where one puts in a commissioner. But, again, unlike this piece of legislation, those school boards, as a general rule, are pretty rapidly, once the situation has stabilised, converted back to elected boards of trustees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe third point in respect of district health boards and school boards, but especially district health boards, is that they derive their income directly from the Government\u2014the taxpayer, via the Crown. They are totally Crown funded\u2014totally Crown funded\u2014whereas Environment Canterbury, of course, apart from some transport funding and others, derives the vast majority, the overwhelming majority, of its funding from the local ratepayer. That is the difference. Do you know the old saying \u201CNo taxation without representation.\u201D? It is a bit of a clich\u00E9, but it is probably apt in this debate today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI am surprised that the Minister, again as I have said in other speeches, holds the view that he does. Actually, his view where he said that \u201CDemocracy is risky.\u201D\u2014at least he is being honest about that, because as we go through these parts and specifically this part about constricting and preventing the rights to take appeals to the Environment Court and restricting them to the High Court, that actually provides evidence that he was telling the truth when he said \u201CDemocracy is risky.\u201D I would put it to Government members\u2014there are a few foreign affairs specialists over there\u2014that those are the sorts of attitudes and those are the sorts of actions one would expect from some Third World jurisdictions, not from a First World country called New Zealand. But the Minister believes it. It is probably the most honest statement he has made, and these actions actually provide evidence that he believes this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo I would like to ask perhaps the Minister in the chair, the Hon Nikki Kaye, even though it is not her portfolio, whether she could shed some light on the contradictions that I have pointed out in respect of the High Court and the Environment Court. I think the people of Canterbury are owed some specific explanations, not just a lot of clich\u00E9s and a lot of lip-service. They have lived with this for 9 years. Gerry Brownlee has seen the light, given Cantabrians back a lot of power in respect of the earthquake legislation, yet a week later we have this, which is pretty heavy-duty, Draconian legislation. The Minister, sort of, gives various commitments. He gave commitments in 2013 and he broke his word. So we wait with bated breath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022874e1cd107314aa5bf5c7e15d0af2f08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022874e1cd107314aa5bf5c7e15d0af2f08\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E I believe we are on Part 3 and schedule 3 of the bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8a87911c0cf400ea8d3a756d434ec55\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: It is all about water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022312b6acfbcc3464cb55a24963266888d\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c37c1a1858c40e3ac802a98b695db99\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: It is all about water, is it not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221206a8df50d549de92405bbd373f8aaf\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Right. Yes, it is. Correct. That is correct, Mr Chair. You are right. Ha, ha! I would like to pay particular attention to schedule 3, if I am able to. It is, I believe, a document that was authored in late 2009 around the vision and principles of the Canterbury Water Management Strategy. I want to focus first on the vision statement that it has. It states that the vision for the strategy is \u201CTo enable present and future generations to gain the greatest social, economic, recreational and cultural benefits from our water resources within an environmentally sustainable framework.\u201D As a vision statement goes, I do not think anyone in this Committee would have too much of a problem with that as a vision statement. The problem we have though, as in within other parts of this bill\u2014Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3\u2014is the lack of public ability to be able to democratically choose a body to try to achieve that vision statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI think the vision statement, as it stands, is a very worthy one, but I think the public, and especially the people of Canterbury, deserve the right to be able to elect an Environment Canterbury board to try to achieve the vision that that schedule 3 sets out. I do not think it is overly complicated. I think that, potentially, people who were elected to an Environment Canterbury board could achieve that vision statement, but my question to the Minister in the chair\u2014and I realise Hon Dr Nick Smith is not in the chair at the moment\u2014is about why he believes that a fully elected Environment Canterbury board cannot achieve that vision statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe only guide I have is some of the previous statements Dr Smith has made in this part of this debate. He already has a completely different vision statement than what is set out in schedule 3, because he wants to try to achieve that in a particular way, which a democratically elected board, he believes, in his opinion, would not be able to achieve. So my question to the Minister in the chair is: why has the Government chosen to not take a fully democratic role or process to ensure there is a fully elected board of Environment Canterbury to achieve that vision statement? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 goes on, then, to outline some of the regional approaches that the Environment Canterbury board\u2014whether it be fully elected or a mixed model, as within this piece of legislation\u2014has to go about its business. I think there are two points that I want to point out, which are on page 26, one of them being \u201CA consistent regulatory approach to water is applied throughout the Canterbury region, recognising these principles.\u201D One of the concerns that we have had is that because there is going to be a different regime for Christchurch, you may have different rules for Christchurch or Canterbury and different regimes for other parts of New Zealand. That is clearly pointed out in schedule 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThen the other quirky one that is in No. 2, under schedule 3, there is a slight contradiction in the way that it wants to approach water management in Canterbury but also elect a board that is going to manage the process of managing water in Canterbury. That is dot point six, where it says: \u201CA cautious approach is taken when information is uncertain, unreliable, or inadequate.\u201D So we have got to be cautious when there is a very murky picture with the water, but we are not so cautious when it comes to the democratic process of electing the people who are tasked with carrying out this vision statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWe have pointed out a number of times in the debate on Part 1, the debate on Part 2, and some of my colleagues have done a very good job of pointing it out in this part of the debate, that we have serious concerns around the lack of full democratic ability of the people of Canterbury to elect the board. We do have a mixed model here, which will elect the board around the water management system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022782ec58e211f4696a7d1411eb632d411\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I just want to make a point to the member, and maybe to others who are wishing to follow on after him, and I will give him the call when I finish making this point. The fact is that it does get a bit repetitive when the same point is made over and over and over again around the democratic process, which, as everybody has heard, is made in the various parts all the way through. But just because the same point is made under each different part does not mean that it is not repetitive. So what I suggest the member and members wishing to take a call do is to dig in to the meat of these provisions and to debate them rather than go back and make the same point over and over and over again, because that is repetition, and as members will well know, being students of the Standing Orders, whether or not it is repetition is the province of the guy sitting in this seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9ca22dd38f74dc6bc2c9cc2f95a3fd3\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: I thank you for your guidance in that matter, Mr Chair. Just to put the Chair at ease, I was just coming to the end of that particular point, and I wanted to raise the other issue that is in Part 3 around the judicial process either contained or not contained within this part. The Minister in the chair noted, without naming names, that instead of allowing there to be an appeal process, he was considering\u2014and he almost laid out that he was almost certainly going to do this\u2014appoint a former Environment Court judge to the Canterbury board to do away with the need for an appeal process, because the learned judge would be on the board and so he would be able to use his skills to be able to adjudicate in an instance where there may be some contest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIn that respect\u2014and I am not going to labour this point, Mr Chair, because it has been made, and repetition is not something that you want to see in this debate\u2014we have concern around that, because the judicial process in many other areas is set up to make sure that there is an avenue, and to see that judicial process usurped or worked around by a Minister because we have got someone with the skills on the board is not a practice we want to see made a constant practice. We do have concerns around that. It is not, in our eyes, the proper process. He may have the skills, indeed, to make the call, but in terms of setting up the process so the people of Canterbury can have absolute confidence that if they do have issues and they do need to work through these water management issues and there is an appeal, then having someone on the board itself who just happens to have those skills, who has experience in the Environment Court is, in our eyes, not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIt needs to be a robust process. It needs to be a transparent process. In our eyes that is not robust and that is not transparent\u2014just co-opting someone with those skills on to the board. Maybe the Minister in the chair may like to answer some of those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc8e661f1be442e897a6a79536457c33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc8e661f1be442e897a6a79536457c33\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take another call on Part 3 of the Environment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements) Bill and to pick up where my colleague Kris Faafoi finished off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn an earlier call on this part, I asked the Minister in the chair, the Hon Nick Smith, some questions pertaining to the appeal rights that are contained in clauses 24 through 26 of this legislation, and I have to say that the Minister\u2019s response that it is OK because we are going to appoint judges to Environment Canterbury so you do not need to have appeals to the Environment Court was truly one of the most terrifying things I have heard said in this Chamber, and I have heard many terrifying things. The idea that a Minister will stand in this Committee and say \u201CWe do not need robust appeal rights in a piece of legislation because we are going to make judges the people making the decisions.\u201D\u2014the whole point of appeal rights is that if you do not agree with the decision, then there is a robust process of where you can take it from there. So I think we will keep asking questions of the Minister in the chair, because this piece of legislation, which we have wholeheartedly opposed from the very beginning, seems to be getting worse and worse with the utterance of the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe further question in terms of Part 3 that I would like to put to the Minister who is currently sitting in the chair, Minister Goodhew, is around the functions of what Environment Canterbury will do. What we are seeing in Part 3\u2014the clauses that are through there\u2014which is as close to the functions as the legislation gets, and in schedule 3, which Part 3 refers to, is that it is very much about the management of water in Canterbury. All through the passage of this legislation we have heard time and time again from the Minister, the Hon Nick Smith, that the whole basis of the need back in 2010 to throw out an elected council and put in place Government appointees was because of the Creech report, which pointed to problems with the governance in Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI think that Part 3 is also notable for what it does not include and for what it does include. The only function that is talked about here is water management, but the Creech report was not only about water management in Canterbury; it also pointed to another flaw in Environment Canterbury, one that it said did need to have some attention paid to it. That was that it recommended a review of the transport functions of Environment Canterbury, particularly matters of public transport, given the concentration of transport functions in urban areas, especially Christchurch, within that body. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EPeople outside that area may not understand the very sliced and diced way that public transport operates in Canterbury. For the bus system, for example, within Christchurch City Environment Canterbury sets the routes, but it is the job of the Christchurch City Council to place the bus stops. That is an authority delegated to community boards. So we have one body that decides where the buses are going to go, and another one that has to deal with the infrastructure around those. It has long been our contention\u2014and it was something that we did hear very much through the submission process on this bill\u2014that it was not just these water functions in Part 3 that Cantabrians wanted. They also thought that if there was anything that was going to be happening in terms of us having an examination of the role of Environment Canterbury, it should also include a functional examination, and one of those functions should be ways in which we could have more integrated approaches to transport planning in our region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI think that when the Government talks about this being a piece of legislation that is required as part of the response to the regeneration of Christchurch there could be no greater need than to get integrated approaches to our transport planning, and I think we see that around the edges, where Christchurch City borders with other councils, whether that be in Mr Doocey\u2019s area of Waimakariri or over the border in Selwyn. We see that we have growing and pressing needs for urban development that is taking place outside the boundaries of Christchurch City and we see the need to have strong and stable public transport links to those. The fact that this bill does not address it, that there is no function examination, and that it is confined solely to water is something that we think\u2014if you actually were going to do anything around Environment Canterbury, taking the opportunity to do something truly progressive like looking at how it is that we could have public transport that was fit for the 21st century\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u002271332d234459448b9aa84fcb3155103d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271332d234459448b9aa84fcb3155103d\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I just rise to take a short call specifically addressing clauses 24 to 26 and the limitations on the right of appeal, specifically for water conservation orders. In this bill it is saying that the community cannot appeal to the Environment Court. The only right of appeal that people will have after this bill passes is to the High Court on a point of law, which is a very significant restriction of the right of appeal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI do want to address the Minister for the Environment\u2019s response to concerns being raised about this, where he said that we should not be worried about the reason for limiting the right of appeal, because he would probably be appointing a judge\u2014he mentioned Judge Skelton\u2014to Environment Canterbury so that those environmental judicial skills would be on that board. This is not a repetition of the concerns around democracy, but it is very closely aligned to them, because we have core constitutional frameworks in this country: democracy and the rule of law and the independence of our courts. For the Minister to say \u201CYou don\u2019t need a right of appeal because I\u2019ve bought you a judge and I\u2019m putting him on my council.\u201D seems to me to be an extraordinary statement and an absolute erosion of our constitutional framework, and one that really needs to be answered. I really do want to hear the Minister tell us that that is not what he meant, because it is something I think that all New Zealanders should be deeply concerned about, if they were to find out that a Minister is so cavalier about the importance of the independence of our courts as to think that he could buy that judge and put him on the decision-making panel and that we have no need for any scrutiny or independence. If that is not what he is saying, how is he going to assure that independence on points, beyond just points of law, around the absolute rights that go to and the concerns that people normally take to the Environment Court?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThese are really, really important issues for the people of Canterbury. It is about ensuring they have the same rights as everyone else in New Zealand and that our system is functioning effectively, because that is why we set up our system with independent courts and a democracy: to be able to deliver for people in a way that we know works. It may not be the quickest decision-making. It may not result in decisions that we always agree with, but we know that when we start eroding those systems we actually risk everything, because it is what our society is founded on: those two core principles. It is deeply worrying to hear them compromised so blithely by the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would refer back to, again, the comment from the Law Society, which was talking about those constitutional values and the unalterable fundamentals being our legal system and our democracy and the independence of that legal system, and I do hope to hear the Minister stand up and correct us for how we all seem to have interpreted his statements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022c33d41a7cad7491d93410447b263684f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c33d41a7cad7491d93410447b263684f\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on Part 3. I would like to return to what my colleague Mr Faafoi was explaining before with regard to the Canterbury Water Management Strategy. I believe that there is an internal inconsistency in the bill, because the Minister for the Environment earlier mentioned that the Canterbury Water Management Strategy had no force in law, yet a key part of that strategy\u2014the vision and the principles\u2014is expressed in this legislation in schedule 3. So in effect it does have the force of law because it is in the legislation. Although there is clause 19A(2), it is unclear, because in my mind if the text of that particular Canterbury Water Management Strategy is in the legislation, then it is law\u2014it is law. It forms part of this piece of legislation. In my mind, the Minister was quite misleading in terms of saying that it had a lesser relevance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI would like to turn to the actual body of those visions and principles, because I think they are very relevant. In particular, I would like to focus on the third clause of schedule 3, \u201CKaitiakitanga\u201D. It is wonderful to see that \u201CThe exercise of kaitiakitanga by Ngai Tahu applies to all water and lakes, rivers, hapua, waterways and wetlands, and shall be carried out in accordance with tikanga Maori.\u201D That is a wonderful primary principle that has been expressed in this legislation. As a result, I actually think that that reinforces the standing that Ng\u0101i Tahu has, through its ability to appoint two appointees to Environment Canterbury. So I do commend that particular section of the vision and the mission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIf we carry on down to clause 5 of schedule 3, \u201CIndigenous biodiversity\u201D, it says: \u201CIndigenous flora and fauna and their habitats in rivers, streams, lakes, groundwater and wetlands are protected and valued.\u201D Again, this is music to the ear of all mana whenua, that the indigenous biodiversity is specifically recognised as a principle and that it actually forms part of the legislation. The point I am making is that although the Minister Nick Smith was, in his words, I believe, demeaning the actual importance of these principles, I believe the fact that these principles have been stated and have been included in this legislation elevates them. They have been elevated to being within the legislation\u2014they are not just a mere document; they are actually in the body of the legislation, and they form a critical part in the process of the freshwater plans and regional policy statements. I did not want to underplay the importance of those principles, because they are a central part of the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EReally, if we do look at Part 3, we are really getting to the guts of what this whole hybrid Environment Canterbury set-up is all about. Basically, it is all about the freshwater plans and regional policy statements and everything to do with water. That is why this particular part of the legislation is only to do with that particular aspect. If we go back to what the Minister said, there are eight water zones in the Environment Canterbury area. Only two have operative plans, so that means that this successor\u2014this newly created hybrid body\u2014has another 3 years to complete the process in Part 3 that they will have to follow to get those six plans in place. That is a monumental task, when you consider the difficulty\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00228ece4c3ad4cf401796e4f3891a7ed287\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ece4c3ad4cf401796e4f3891a7ed287\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220a9859eb3db64888aae330a9b3e7558a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000496\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 157 in the name of the Hon Dr Nick Smith to clause 19 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e2d2307b971149c98f4adbc93c3e2853\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223d4b5a93903d41508697bfe559a49c1f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 3 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228304671c5d97419e824d0ab9cbbd399d\u0022\u003EPart 4  Miscellaneous provisions and amendments to 2010 Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022633a9d396caf4ee58315dfc2aa55d98b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022633a9d396caf4ee58315dfc2aa55d98b\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a short call on Part 4. In particular, I want to talk to clause 29 of the legislation, which is \u201CMatters relating to 2019 election\u201D. In clause 29 it says \u201C(1) To avoid doubt, nothing in this Act prevents Environment Canterbury from taking any step that must be taken under the Local Electoral Act 2001 for the purposes of the 2019 election. (2) However, Environment Canterbury must review its representation arrangements in accordance with section 19I of that Act, irrespective of whether it would be mandatory for it to do so under the requirements of that section in relation to the 2019 election.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis comes to some of the core concerns that Labour has about this legislation. It is the \u201CWe\u2019ve been here before\u201D clause. Of course, we have, in the passage of this bill, traversed the history of it: that elected members of Environment Canterbury were first sacked in 2010 and the Government made comments at the time saying that it might be as late as 2013 before we could have elected representatives back on Environment Canterbury. Then, lo and behold, the 2013 triennial elections started to roll around, and there was more legislation extending it out for another 3 years. So this clause here, clause 29, does not give us any certainty that we are returning to full elected representation in 2019.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe heard the Hon Nick Smith earlier in the course of this Committee stage feigning some kind of outrage that the Hon Clayton Cosgrove had dared to question whether or not it had been the case\u2014well, he has got form. We have been here before\u2014we have seen elections delayed and pushed out, despite the reassurances that were given to the people of Canterbury\u2014and throughout the course of this debate, there has been an inconsistency and, actually, a lack of coherence in the logic that the Government has used in relation to this legislation, and that is, of course, when its members bother to even try to defend taking away peoples\u2019 democratic rights. It is quite stunning that you can sit through a whole Committee stage of a bill and not one Canterbury member of Parliament will get on their feet and defend the fact that the Government is taking away the right to vote in their region, and continuing that loss of democracy in their region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat we have had is the Minister Nick Smith, throughout this, saying that it is OK because Labour did it. That seems to be the kind of catch-all that National tries to use for everything. He has used the example of district health boards, he has pulled in the example of Kaipara, and he is has pulled in the example of school boards that have been used in various places. But never ever have we had elections delayed for 9 years, which is the case and is what is entrenched in clause 29 of this legislation. It was in 2010 that that council was first sacked. It would seem a long time, if you had to wait a whole triennium, to have it come into play at the next scheduled triennial election in 2013. That seemed massive to the people of Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThen there is the fact that that was pushed out by further legislation before that triennial election in 2013, and we are now having another push out of it, but not a return to full democracy, as Cantabrians were led to believe was going to be the case in 2010\u2014a return to democracy by the time of the 2013 elections. And 6 years later we are debating here, in this Committee tonight, a clause of \u201CPlease Sir, can we please have it for the 2019 elections?\u201D. This is just absurd. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI have no faith that this will actually take place. We have seen the Cabinet papers where the Ministry for Primary Industries is lobbying to have the current arrangement made permanent. This is not a temporary arrangement in the minds of many members of this Government. And if I am wrong, I welcome a Government member taking a call on this, putting our fears at ease, and assuring us that there will indeed be no push to have this established as a permanent arrangement, because we know there is an irrigation agenda in here. This is backed up by the fact that the Ministry for Primary Industries wants to see this as a permanent arrangement in Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo what we have is that the people of Canterbury should have no faith that even this mixed model governance structure is going to expire in 2019. We have heard it all before. We know that there is lobbying going on in the background, and there is no certainty that there will be fully democratic elections held at the next elections in 2019. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u002288af0296f1f14e3a9d32b5e051e35273\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288af0296f1f14e3a9d32b5e051e35273\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. Like Dr Woods, I would like to see a response from National members, and I think it is interesting that we have not heard any calls from National members other than the Minister in support of this bill, and the only calls there have been have been to move closure motions. The reason for that is why would members of the National Party\u2014particularly those members in Canterbury\u2014take a call when they are here because they have been elected? They are here because people voted for them democratically, so how could they defend a system that is in this bill where we have appointed, rather than elected, members around the council table? They know that they do not want to be accused of being hypocrites.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn this call, I would like to speak specifically to clause 27, \u201CEnvironment Canterbury must report to responsible Ministers on management of fresh water\u201D. They have got to report to the Minister of Local Government and the Minister for the Environment every 6 months in relation to progress on the Canterbury Land and Water Regional Plan, progress on other plans relating to the management of fresh water, and progress on the implementation of the Canterbury Water Management Strategy. If anyone was in any doubt that this bill was about controlling the management of water in Canterbury, this clause should remove that. Environment Canterbury has a wide range of functions for the management of natural resources\u2014for the coast, for air, for natural hazards, for transport planning in the region, and for the management of pests\u2014yet the only provision where the council is required to report to the Minister is in relation to water. So that shows that all the Minister\u2019s arguments about needing continuity and about providing effective leadership somehow do not apply to all of the other responsibilities of the regional council\u2014only to water. So, yes, this is about water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt will be interesting to see what the Minister is interested in having reports from the council on. Will he\u2014or she\u2014be interested in how many more rivers and lakes are unswimmable? Will they be interested in the fact that the headwater streams of the \u014Ct\u0101karo\u2014or the Avon River\u2014are drying up? Will they be interested in the fact that the species that depend on the braided rivers in Canterbury like the R\u0101kaia and the Rangitata\u2014all the wrybills and the black-fronted tern\u2014are in deep trouble? Will they be interested in the snapshot of the state of the rivers that one submitter presented, just looking at incidents in October and November, that identified six rivers in South Canterbury where there were problems with toxic benthic cyanobacteria mats and where Environment Canterbury was warning that river users should avoid the areas because of those mats, from the \u014Cpihi to the Temuka River and to the Pareora\u2014will the Ministers be interested in those reports? I do not think so. I think they will be more interested in the amount to which irrigation is proposed to be expanded in upcoming years, because of their emphasis on subsidising irrigation and using that to promote extensive dairying. And yet in Canterbury we have a major decline in water quality, which Environment Canterbury has comprehensively failed to report on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EUnder an elected council, we had a very detailed and comprehensive state of the environment report released in 2009. Under the appointed commissioners, we have had only a snapshot of their progress in meeting the targets of the Canterbury Water Management Strategy. But that was enough to show that there is a continuing decline. In lowland spring-fed streams\u2014on the plains, for example\u2014in 2010, around 40 percent of those streams were in poor or very poor health in terms of the aquatic ecosystems, but in 2014 that had increased to 67 percent. We have got the Canterbury medical officer of health warning midwives in the Ashburton area to discourage new parents from bottle-feeding babies using bore water because of the risk of blue baby syndrome and nitrate levels interfering with the uptake of oxygen in the blood. The Minister in the chair, Jo Goodhew, is shaking her head, but those warnings have been issued by the medical officer of health and they were widely reported at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAt the same time that we have had water quality decreasing in Canterbury, we have also had an increase in non-compliance. Will the Ministers, under clause 27, be interested in Environment Canterbury\u2019s role in enforcement? Recently, the Press reported that nearly one in five water users were guilty of significant non-compliance in relation to their water takes from streams, rivers, and aquifers. Either they were taking more than they were permitted to by their consent conditions or they were taking when restrictions applied. So 355 irrigators were significantly non-compliant, yet how many prosecutions did Environment Canterbury undertake? It issued only nine infringement and abatement notices. Water quality is declining, yet Environment Canterbury, under the commissioners, is failing to enforce the Resource Management Act requirements adequately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn relation to things like transport, it is really disappointing that this provision does not require reporting on the other of Environment Canterbury\u2019s responsibilities. It is one of the reasons why we believe that elected councillors would do a better job in areas like transport, because they would be much more responsive to their communities. We have seen a major decline in patronage of bus services under the commissioners. Some of that was due to the earthquakes, but they have failed to take action in an innovative way to encourage patronage. We have had media reports recently where we have had a further decline in patronage, and what are the commissioners proposing to do? Increase the fares, which is likely to lead to more decline in passenger numbers, and this is with a council that was once responsible for one of the most accessible and cost-effective bus systems in the whole of Australasia, before commissioners were appointed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo we would like to see the Environment Canterbury commissioners having to report to the Ministers on their other functions and not just on fresh water, but the fact that this clause focuses on fresh water highlights once again that this bill is all about water and the promotion of irrigation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d90f40bf870e4b5e9ffe3c824b5eb9a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d90f40bf870e4b5e9ffe3c824b5eb9a8\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This legislation will be repealed, under clause 6, after the 2019 election, and by then Environment Canterbury will have had to have decided, under clause 29 in this part of the bill, what wards it will have and how many councillors per ward it will have, and whatever other arrangements will be necessary for the election to then take place for the 3-year term following the 3 years under this bill. But when you look at clause 29(2) it says \u201CEnvironment Canterbury must review\u201D. That means that all members of Environment Canterbury must be carrying out that review, and that will include the six appointed members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EI think that it is most inappropriate for appointed members whose purpose is to be there\u2014as we have heard repeatedly from the Minister\u2014just to look after water issues to then be deciding what representation arrangements will be made for the next 3 years, under which all of the Environment Canterbury members will be elected. That is a most inappropriate provision, and it clearly shows that this Government has not properly thought out this legislation, because I cannot believe that it will have deliberately wanted it to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EIf it did, then those members are out of their tiny minds, because it is not appropriate for people who are appointed to look after the water issues under this bill, and for 3 years following the 2016 elections, to be then taking part in the determination of what will happen for the fully elected term after that. It is just very, very bad law altogether. We have got a situation where not only are those appointed members going to be usurping the role of what should be fully elected members for the 3 years in question but in this bill they are going to usurp the role of an elected council to determine what the representation situation will be after that. I could not think of anything more inappropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EAnother point about that is, we are told, the whole point of the appointment of people to Environment Canterbury is so that we would have the right skills there. I read out in an earlier speech the skills that were required, and they all relate to water issues and so on. But, actually, none of those skills are applicable to making a decision under clause 29(2) of this bill in relation to future representation arrangements for Environment Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EClause 29(2) is a disgrace. It should not be in this bill. Members opposite should acknowledge that, delay this bill, and make sure that that clause is redrafted completely. That is really what is required. It is disgraceful, it is badly thought out, and, in fact, the entire bill is disgraceful and badly thought out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224b21fb4767ab455183e3c12cf50d05bd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a124a2372f94fe1a16cc04a61e9f57c\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e45091c95a214487b2202efdda747ccf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225238e6eebd244af28f6da6eda0fd3da2\u0022\u003ESchedule 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000519\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 157 in the name of the Hon Nick Smith to schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cd40fc56b35d404996a59576b5a501b7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228295e4f4c4b041e6a40e43fceae0206a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002270c958c3a872441d8a2854e86f884762\u0022\u003ESchedule 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002266c759e5cba94974a0138b8c66d7fc44\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b3e50c4d469c4885902f0d52b2bda60e\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00221f407c8862d24ac3be501dc880cd2510\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f407c8862d24ac3be501dc880cd2510\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to take a call and, in the time-honoured tradition, talk specifically to the title of this bill. The title that the Government has given this bill, the Environment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements) Bill, just seems a little bit absurd. We are now debating whether we should have bespoke governance arrangements in place for Canterbury for 9 years. The Government thinks this is a transitional arrangement. Where I come from, nearly a decade is not a transition. We call that semi-permanent, if not permanent. I think the \u201CContinued Denial of Democracy Bill\u201D would be a better title for this bill, rather than the Environment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements) Bill. I think \u201CNine Years is Not a Transition Bill\u201D would be another alternative title that we could give\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ea7ac5ec1084fcb81c4e8ad7d9150d5\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Nine long years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fd37e7d0f7e4ae984540933e461dc21\u0022\u003EDr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The \u201CNine Long Years Bill\u201D could be another alternative title that we could give this bill. But, in all seriousness, I would not like to be flippant about this, because this is very serious. This is just an affront to people, that they have had their votes taken away from them for 9 years. The fact is that there is now a different model of democracy that operates in Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI think, as people who are democratically elected, for us to be saying that things can be a little bit democratic is frightening. We are democratically elected members of this House and we should be the very people who stand up for democracy. We should not just say that it is OK for a Minister to appoint people to govern a region and make it different from other parts of the country. Not only does the Minister have the power to appoint; the Minister has the power to remove, and the Government has weakened the appeal rights contained in the bill. This is a truly frightening piece of government to be enacted by any Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe will continue our opposition to this arrangement after the passage of this bill. I have a member\u2019s bill in my name that will be staying in the ballot. The title of that bill is the restoration of democracy in Canterbury bill and I have my fingers crossed, every time we have a ballot of members\u2019 bills, that that bill gets drawn and we could return to fully democratic elections in Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ETo call this a transitional governance arrangement bill is just not fair. I think another title that the Government could go back to is the \u201CCanterbury Experimentation (Part 3) Bill\u201D. That is what is being done to the people of Canterbury. When the Government cannot get across its own Resource Management Act reforms because it cannot get the support of its coalition partners, it thinks: \u201COh, I know. Let\u2019s see if we can try it out in Canterbury. They won\u2019t mind.\u201D So that is where we have it. We have a whole lot of bespoke provisions in here that make us different from the rest of the country. We have traversed many of these through the course of this Committee stage, and I would not like to traverse them again. But to say that this is some kind of transitional arrangement is just not something that any elected member should be able to stand up and say with any level of credibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EMaybe that is why we are not hearing from the Government members from Canterbury. Maybe that is why they are content to sit there, voting away the full democratic rights of their fellow Cantabrians, and not utter a word. I imagine there are a number of people who elected those members to this House who are truly disappointed that their elected members are willing to sit silent as democracy is watered down by those members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIt is not good enough to call this a transitional arrangement. The Government has not made the case for why Canterbury should be treated any differently. The Government has dressed it up in a raft of different measures. It has tried to say that it is about our regeneration of Christchurch, yet we see that none of the things that would actually help our city regenerate are covered off in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis is a bill purely and simply about the Government needing to push across the line its irrigation agenda, and it is about water in Canterbury. The bill should be called the \u201CCanterbury Water Bill\u201D or, alternatively, it should be called the \u201CWe\u2019ve Run Out of Ideas Bill\u201D. This is a bill that belongs in the 20th century. It is not a piece of legislation that is fit for our future as a region. Stripping away people\u2019s right to vote, imposing a bias towards a particular mode of land use\u2014all these things are not what belong in the Canterbury of the 21st century. It is a disappointing piece of legislation. It is disappointing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6bdcc05c0c6475588f208905b3de1bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6bdcc05c0c6475588f208905b3de1bc\u0022\u003EEUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. Like others, I think this bill is a nonsense. It is an abominable piece of legislation and Parliament should be ashamed of passing it, because representative democracy is a fundamental principle that gives legitimacy to the Government and to the exercise of State power, and yet in this bill it is totally undermined. So a better title would be the \u201CSuppression of Local Democracy Bill\u201D, or the \u201CStrong Arm of the State Bill\u201D because this Government, through this bill, shows that it does not trust the citizens of Canterbury to elect a competent regional council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAnother title would be the \u201CIgnore the Public Bill\u201D because, remember, there were only 15 out of 1,169 submissions that supported this bill. There was strong public opposition. That opposition to the axing of elected councillors has been expressed in many ways in Canterbury. One of them is that cairn of stones\u2014I and many others took stones from the beds of Canterbury rivers and added them to the cairn. The cairn stood there through all of the Canterbury earthquakes, while the statues of Godley and others fell over. The cairn remains a symbol of the loss of democracy in Canterbury, of the taking of water, and of the putting of irrigation and the expansion of irrigated land ahead of protecting the health of Canterbury\u2019s rivers and aquifers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill is an affront to democracy. We cannot claim to be a free and democratic society if we compromise with this second-class model where Ministers continue to appoint commissioners and where the bill truncates appeal rights and sidelines the specialist jurisdiction of the Environment Court in terms of making decisions on appeals on regional plans and the Canterbury Regional Policy Statement. It is an \u201CAffront to Democracy Bill\u201D because it imposes in Canterbury a different form of law to that which applies in other regions by truncating these appeal rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt is a model that is not accountable because nearly half of those sitting around the table will be reporting to the Minister rather than to Cantabrians. It is a Wellington-controlled model, plain and simple. So that is another title\u2014the \u201CWellington-controlled Council Bill\u201D. And it is certainly not a transitional governance arrangement, because we are about to mourn the sixth anniversary of the loss of an elected council, and by the time this legislation is repealed there will have been 9 long years without a fully elected council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAs the Christchurch City Council highlighted in its submission, it was very concerned that this hybrid model would reduce effective, open, and transparent processes, rather than provide the stability that the Government claims. We have seen a precedent being set here with the Government interfering with the processes and decision making of local councils through being able to appoint more commissioners. Nobody wants this as a precedent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ELocal Government New Zealand expressed significant concern about the bill. It said\u2014and I would like to conclude with a quote from its submission\u2014that it highlighted that local government representatives should not be required to have specialist expertise or skills. Rather, their role is to \u201Cset the direction, resolve differences over values and set priorities and most of all supervise management.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThat is what local government and local democracy is all about. It is about people electing councillors who can make decisions on how the taxes that they contribute through rates are actually spent. It is about being accountable to local communities. This bill, by imposing Government appointees on Cantabrians, totally distrusts local government and highlights once again the Government\u2019s failure to respect the ability of Cantabrians to elect competent people. It gives greater weight to voters in rural areas by giving them better representation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI totally endorse the point that Denis O\u2019Rourke was making in terms of having these appointed members actually setting the representation for the council post-2019\u2014that likely provisions around the plans will continue the influence of the Government and the influence of appointed members well beyond 2019. That is a totally distasteful element of this bill, which is an abominable piece of legislation that the Green Party will continue to oppose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u002230b2718efad94227b0703d2ea9f25146\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230b2718efad94227b0703d2ea9f25146\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Before I speak on the title and commencement clauses, can I just acknowledge my colleagues Megan Woods, Eugenie Sage, and Denis O\u2019Rourke for the heavy lifting they have done on this bill in the Committee tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAn alternative title for this bill should be the \u201CEnvironment Canterbury Entrenchment of Anti-democracy Bill\u201D. This is a frightening piece of legislation\u2014an absolutely frightening piece of legislation. Nobody on that side of the Chamber\u2014unless they are prepared to get up, take a call, and argue this\u2014should actually have anything to say about it. Notice that they have all been completely quiet about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis is a frightening piece of legislation. It is a frightening piece of legislation on a number of levels, and I want to speak to some of them when addressing the title and commencement clauses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EMy biggest concern\u2014and I think Megan Woods actually alluded to this at one point during the debate tonight\u2014is about this being a pilot project that could be used for other regional councils as to how the governance arrangement of regional councils could be. The Minister for the Environment has made it very clear tonight that the district health board model of governance that has been imposed on regional government through this Environment Canterbury bill is a viable model that could be used and implemented in other spheres in other parts of the country. I think that is the chilling effect of this legislation, and this bill is a warning, essentially, to any other regional council in New Zealand that dares to get out of line and to speak out of line that this model, which is this mixed-model governance of appointed and elected people, could be imposed upon it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EUnder the district health board model, which was brought in in a completely different environment, it is funded by the distribution of taxation at the national level. Instead, here we have regional government. New Zealand does not have that many levels of government. We are not like Australia, where you have federal Government, you have states, and then you have regional and city councils. We have a very small number of tiers of government. We do not have two Houses in our Parliament; we have one House in our Parliament. Therefore, our levels of government are extremely important, and we should treat them with respect, but we are not. This Government is not treating the regional level of government with respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhat the fear is with this bill is that this will be used as a model that could be imposed in other areas, and I think that is something that everybody should be really afraid of. It sends an unsubtle message to other councils that they may suffer the same fate if they oppose the Government. Transitional legislation was not needed\u2014it was not needed. It is 9 years this will end up being for. This is not transition; this is actually entrenchment, which is why the alternative title that I have suggested is the \u201CEntrenchment of Anti-democracy Bill\u201D. This is not transition; it is entrenchment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe public sentiment was very strong, and another point that was made during the debate tonight was around the skill sets of the appointed people. The point that my colleague David Parker made was that if the Government was so keen on those skill set, there could be encouragement for those people to be standing for elected positions. If it is the case that the only way that we can get the right skill sets into our levels of government is that you have to appoint them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022 data-id=\u00225b89e965c1fc494da1de606298ede565\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b89e965c1fc494da1de606298ede565\u0022\u003EDENIS O\u2019ROURKE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I do not think that this title is at all accurate as a descriptor for this particular bill, and I have got three suggestions, any one of which would, I think, be better. The first one is \u201CECan\u2019t be Democratic under this Government Bill\u201D, because that is the reality. It is a hybrid, and it is not a democratic proposal for the governance of Canterbury at all. I mean, it is absolutely obvious that you cannot be half pregnant, and you cannot be half democratic. So what is the point in having this window dressing of having some elected people and some appointed ones? It is not going to be democratic as a result of that. I do not think that the current title is at all accurate, nor is it actually transitional\u2014it does not describe anything transitional at all. All it describes is yet another model for the Government\u2019s dominance of Environment Canterbury. It has got one currently. This is a new one, and there will not be any democracy until after 2019. So how can that be transitional? It is not. It is just weasel word, and it should not be there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003EThe second suggestion I have for a title is \u201CGovernment\u2019s Arrangements for Its Interest in Canterbury\u2019s Environment Amendment Bill\u201D, because that is really what the bill is about. When you consider why the Government is doing it, it is doing it to make sure that what it wants to achieve is what will happen in Canterbury for another 3 years. Again, that is not democratic, and, in particular, it is not a way in which the desires and aspirations of the people of Canterbury for the environment could possibly be met. This is because the Government is going to appoint members whose only interest is to serve the Government\u2019s interests, and the elected people will have a hard job with the six appointed representatives in actually trying to achieve what the people of Canterbury want for their own region. For that reason, I also say that it is a very inappropriate title, and it should reflect the fact that this is just what the Government wants. So \u201CGovernment\u2019s Arrangements for Its Interests in Canterbury\u2019s Environment Amendment Bill\u201D would be much more accurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ELastly, my third suggestion is \u201CA Failed Attempt at Environment Canterbury Governance Arrangements Act 2015\u201D. I think the word \u201Cfailed\u201D would be appropriate. I say that because it is absolutely inevitable that this model will fail; it does not matter how you judge it. Will it represent the aspirations and desires of the people of Canterbury for their environment? No, because the Government will see to it that it cannot, through its appointed representatives. It does not matter that it is six against seven\u2014it is close enough for that to be the effect. Will it actually mean that the Canterbury Water Management Strategy will be any better under this bill? No, it will not, because it is already going to be entrenched in the bill, which does not need any appointed members to do that. It is good that it will be entrenching the Canterbury Water Management Strategy, because that will underpin everything that the new councils do in the future. Whatever rules and whatever regulations the councils make must be consistent with that strategy. That was well and properly done, but the appointed members\u2019 role in achieving that is well and truly over, and it is time for elected people to say what should happen in the future in terms of that strategy in Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003ENo mixed system of both elected and appointed people can ever work effectively because there will be that them-and-us approach that will take root, and it will never stop. It is going to mean a dysfunctional council, I believe, and not one that the people of Canterbury will have any hope that it will actually improve their environment. So any one of those three titles, I would be happy with, but certainly not the one that we have got here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u002291826650cd764bd2ba4a2c412c6495bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291826650cd764bd2ba4a2c412c6495bd\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u002282a5f758976c40a0b4930596ba8673f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282a5f758976c40a0b4930596ba8673f9\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chair. I am very pleased to speak on the title and commencement clauses. This will be my final contribution in the Committee stage, I would imagine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI do want to return to the very first point that I made earlier today, and that was the significance of the mound of stones that is there in Cathedral Square. That cairn was erected as a memorial by the people of Canterbury to mark their sense of loss at the fact that their democratic rights were stripped from them when the Environment Canterbury councillors were all sacked back in 2010. That cairn\u2014that pile of stones\u2014marks the loss of democracy, and it is actually more relevant now than it was back in 2010, because here we are 6 years down the track and that mound of stones is still there. So as a suggested new title I would propose that we rename this bill the \u201CEnvironment Canterbury (The Cairn Still Stands) Bill\u201D, because that cairn represents the loss of democracy, and it will not be removed\u2014it will not be removed\u2014until full democracy is restored to the people of Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI know that this bill creates a sort of hybrid of councillors\u2014half are elected and half are appointees from the Minister\u2014but, again, that is not good enough. That will not open the way for the removal of that cairn, because half is not whole. The people of Canterbury erected that structure as a landmark for everyone to see, and to remember that their rights were taken away. So half is not good enough. I am sure that in those stones, which were collected from all of the rivers around the Canterbury region, there might be some good h\u0101ngi stones\u2014I am sure that there are\u2014but perhaps when democracy is restored those stones could be used for another purpose, to celebrate the restoration of the democracy for the people of Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EAnother point that I did make was the appointment by Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu of two appointees, or the recommendation to the Minister of two appointees, who will go through on to this new transitional body\u2014I actually do support that. I think it sets a very exciting precedent that mana whenua representation can go direct to the actual council level, and be equal, on a par with, and level with councillors at the regional council table. I think that is an exciting development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI am going to be interested to know what will happen after 3 years, and whether Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu will still have those rights and will still have a level of representation at that level for mana whenua, so the words \u201Cmana whenua\u201D could be another addition to the title. The bill could be the \u201CEnvironment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements with Mana Whenua Representation) Bill\u201D, with those words included in the title as well, because, as I have mentioned, that is a significant development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI know that iwi up and down the country will be looking at and studying this piece of legislation very closely, because I know that they all have very, very deep concerns about their natural environment. If it is good enough for Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu to lead the way, well, certainly I know that iwi up and down the country will want to follow suit as well, and they will be expecting more from the Minister\u2014they will be expecting the Minister to deliver accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe Minister mentioned that we are continuing on in this transitional phase with denying the people of Canterbury their full democratic rights because, effectively, we need six more water zones to be put in place\u2014the actual planning processes and the planned zones, or whatever the vernacular is for the resource management speakers. That needs to be put in place, and so I would encourage, as a final title\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf43efc27a2c428d83584e0989630d47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf43efc27a2c428d83584e0989630d47\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002240e477dce30e45e9a1964a32ffea8ed7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002286ce833d34ba4b99b2a60e2371b1f409\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220f71d3cba41b4cef9bc591edaf14c531\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000559\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226db4e450a0ba4af3be3869e9edc5b026\u0022\u003ETe Pire m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori / M\u0101ori Language Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f19fcf7f475f43508426d58c783746ba\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00229b1494aed3c54812925f111f9025737c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b1494aed3c54812925f111f9025737c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Before we commence debate on this bill, there are several procedural matters that I want to comment on. Firstly, the title and commencement clauses of this bill are contained in Part 1AA. The debate on this part will be taken first, and there will be no concluding title and commencement clause debate. The second matter relates to the dual-language nature of the bill. As you will be aware, the Te Reo M\u0101ori and English texts of this bill have equal authority. Neither text is to be considered a translation of the other, though they are intended to be equivalent in meaning. I will recognise this in the conducting of the Committee\u2019s consideration of the bill. For the purposes of debate, the Te Reo M\u0101ori and English text for each part will be taken together. Hence, the question for the first part will be that Te W\u0101hanga tahi AA\u2014that is, Part 1AA\u2014and that Part 1AA stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI note that separate amendments to the two texts are possible. The Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 164 amends Te Reo M\u0101ori text for Part 1AA but does not amend the English text, as there are matters requiring amendment in one but not the other. Recognising that the two texts are separate, the votes on the two texts will be taken separately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EFurther, because the two texts of the bill are of equal authority, amendments that are in one language are not automatically treated as amending the other text of the bill. If a substantive amendment is to be agreed to by the Committee, it is highly desirable that the text in both Te Reo M\u0101ori and English is agreed to. If it appears likely that the amendment that is proposed in only one language is not to be agreed to by the Committee, the Minister may wish to postpone further consideration of the part under Standing Order 303(1)(d) and (4), to allow time for the amendment to be drafted in the other language. For that further amendment to be tabled, the alternative is to have a bill that may be deficient in one of the language versions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u002249573f66ca994d06bacaa7b1ebd9cb7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249573f66ca994d06bacaa7b1ebd9cb7d\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for all parts of this bill to be considered as one debate, and voted on separately, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002243b812b306cc415c95d376b91eb06ed9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243b812b306cc415c95d376b91eb06ed9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5ef85defae647c48ce0952e56abc8d8\u0022\u003ETe W\u0101hanga 1AA  Ko te ingoa me ng\u0101 whakataunga t\u012Bmatanga i Te Reo M\u0101oriPart 1AA  Title and commencement provisions in English\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022910cb74b183c48c785184723af96acf0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022910cb74b183c48c785184723af96acf0\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, kia ora t\u0101tau o Te Whare. Me p\u0113nei te k\u012B hei w\u0101w\u0101hi i w\u0101 t\u0101tau k\u014Drero, n\u014D te ata nei i tae atu au ki Hiruh\u0101rama, te w\u0101hi e takoto nei t\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 matakahi o te mahi p\u0101p\u0101ho a Whai Ngata, ki te tuku roimata ki a ia. Ko ia t\u0113r\u0101 i \u0101rahi nei i ng\u0101 kaupapa mahi \u0101-p\u0101p\u0101ho. Ko t\u0101ku hei w\u0101w\u0101hi i w\u0101 t\u0101tau k\u014Drero i t\u0113nei p\u014D he tuku i ng\u0101 poroporo\u0101ki ki a ia. Me te k\u012B e Whai, kua ea te w\u0101hi ki a koe. Oti pai i a koe ng\u0101 mahi katoa i a koe e takat\u016B ana i te mata o te whenua. Ko Te Reo M\u0101ori ki te p\u016Btake o ng\u0101 mahi katoa i roto i ng\u0101 mahi p\u0101p\u0101ho. N\u014D reira ko koe, ko koutou, ko Hone Kaa m\u0101 te hunga kua ngaro atu i te tirohanga kanohi, e moe, e moe, e moe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKa hoki mai ki a t\u0101tau e hoa m\u0101, huri noa i t\u014D t\u0101tau Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tau katoa. I tuku au i t\u0113tahi k\u014Drero ki t\u0113nei tangata ki a Whai Ngata i te mea ko ia t\u0113r\u0101 i kawe nei i ng\u0101 kaupapa o te Television New Zealand? \u0100, t\u0113r\u0101 w\u0101hi. Ka mutu, i roto i w\u0101na mahi katoa i tuhi ia i t\u0113tahi pukapuka Reo M\u0101ori, he papakupu. Ka mutu, n\u0101na an\u014D r\u0101, n\u0101 r\u0101tau ko Ernie Leonard m\u0101, ko Tini Fox m\u0101, i t\u012Bmata nei i ng\u0101 kaupapa p\u0113nei i a Te Karere, a Waka Huia, a Koha, te t\u012Bmatanga mai o te mahi nei o te p\u0101p\u0101ho i Te Reo M\u0101ori ki runga i te pouaka whakaata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, i whai w\u0101hi au m\u014D te w\u0101 poto ki te k\u014Drero ki a ia, me te tuku i te roimata ki a ia ko ia t\u0113r\u0101 kua riro, ka tahi, ka rua, e t\u0101tau m\u0101, me mihi au ki a koutou katoa m\u014D te \u0101taahua o w\u0101 t\u0101tau k\u014Drero i te p\u0101nuitanga tuarua. K\u0101tahi nei au ka rongo, tuatahi, ko ng\u0101 mea m\u014Dhio ki te k\u014Drero M\u0101ori, ng\u0101 mea e ako nei i Te Reo M\u0101ori, ng\u0101 mea paku nei te m\u014Dhio ki Te Reo M\u0101ori \u0113ngari, i kawe haerehia katoatia ng\u0101 mahi i roto i Te Reo M\u0101ori. Katoa o t\u0101tau i whakaae atu ki te tino p\u016Btake o t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire, ka mutu, tino m\u012Bharo au ki te \u0101huatanga o w\u0101 t\u0101tau nohotahi. Kotahi tonu ng\u0101 whakaaro m\u014D te \u0101taahua, m\u014D te aronga o t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire. Me mihi r\u0101 ki a koutou, ka tika.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKa toru, me k\u012B ko t\u0113nei pire he t\u012Bmatanga h\u014Du ki taku titiro. Koin\u0101 te wawata, koin\u0101 te t\u016Bmanako. He whakakotahi nei i Te Karauna me Te Iwi M\u0101ori, ko Te Reo M\u0101ori te painga ake. He nohotahi o Te Karauna me Te Iwi M\u0101ori, he w\u0101hi ki a t\u0101ua ki Te Ao M\u0101ori, \u0101, kaitiaki m\u014D t\u014D t\u0101tau reo. He \u0101rahi i ng\u0101 kaupapa o Te Reo M\u0101ori ka mutu, kua whakat\u016Bria an\u014D hoki ko Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. Ko t\u0101na mahi, he whakatinana i ng\u0101 wawata o Te Ao M\u0101ori. Ko te w\u0101hi ki Te Karauna, \u0101, he whakaora an\u014D r\u0101 i t\u014D t\u0101tau reo. \u0112ngari, kua \u0101hua wh\u0101iti tonu tana titiro. Hoi an\u014D, n\u0101 runga i t\u0113nei \u0101huatanga o te nohotahi, kotahi te kaupapa. He whakanui nei i te \u0101huatanga o te hunga e k\u014Drero M\u0101ori ana i te mata o te whenua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EMe tika te whakat\u016B o Te M\u0101t\u0101wai i te mea, 13 pea ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata ka noho nei i Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. Ka mutu, ki te h\u0113 i reira, \u0101, kua raruraru katoa. Me whai w\u0101hi te wahine, me whai w\u0101hi te hunga e m\u014Dhio nei ki te whakarite rautaki m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori. Kia kaua e kimi noa ake te hunga e k\u014Drero M\u0101ori ana, he painga an\u014D r\u0101 o t\u0113r\u0101 \u0113ngari, me kimi i te hunga e matatau ana ki te \u0101huatanga o t\u0113nei mea o te whakahaere i ng\u0101 kaupapa whakaora i Te Reo M\u0101ori. N\u014D reira, \u0101, k\u0101ti, me p\u0113r\u0101 rawa te k\u014Drero m\u014D ng\u0101 w\u0101hanga \u014D roto, ko te reo tukutuku t\u0101ku e k\u014Drero nei. Me p\u0113r\u0101 rawa an\u014D hoki te \u0101huatanga o te whakahaere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u0101, ko t\u0113nei pire kai t\u014Dna p\u016Btake ko Te Reo M\u0101ori te reo taketake o t\u0113nei whenua. He taonga Te Reo M\u0101ori ki te iwi M\u0101ori, ki a Ng\u0101i M\u0101ori wh\u0101nui tonu atu, te tikanga ia, he taonga n\u014D t\u0113nei whenua. Me whakanui i a ia, me whakamana i a ia. M\u0101 t\u0113nei pire k\u0101re he rerek\u0113tanga o t\u0101na noho motuhake nei i t\u0113nei whenua. N\u014D reira ka pai hoki, ka pai hoki. Ka pai t\u014Dna hanga i t\u0113nei w\u0101 \u0113hara i te mea kai te whakaiti \u0113ngari, me whakanui i te \u0101huatanga o t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKo t\u0113tahi w\u0101hanga nui, whakaharahara, kua whakahokia mai t\u0113nei i roto i Te Reo M\u0101ori, me te reo P\u0101keh\u0101. He mea nui t\u0113r\u0101. \u0112hara i te mea he w\u0101 tuatahi \u0113ngari, i roto i t\u0113nei kaupapa, ko Te Reo ka whai mana, m\u0113n\u0101 ka noho tukituki ng\u0101 reo e rua nei, ko Te Reo M\u0101ori. Kai reira tonu te kaupapa nui. He \u0101hua p\u0113r\u0101 tonu te tikanga ki Te Tiriti o Waitangi, Reo M\u0101ori, reo P\u0101keh\u0101, m\u0113n\u0101 ka tukituki ko Te Reo te tikanga, ko te mea whai mana ko t\u0113r\u0101 ka tuhia i Te Reo M\u0101ori. \u0112ngari waiho t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D te w\u0101. Ko t\u0113nei kaupapa ko Te Reo M\u0101ori, koir\u0101 te mea whai mana. H\u0101unga ko te \u0101huatanga o Te Ture m\u014D Mokomoko (Hei Whakahoki i te Ihi, te Mana, me te Rangatiratanga) 2013; i whakahokia Reo M\u0101ori mai t\u0113r\u0101 pire ki roto i t\u0113nei Whare P\u0101remata \u0113ngari m\u0113n\u0101 ka puta te tohe, ko te mea whai mana, \u0113, ko te mea i tuhia i te reo P\u0101keh\u0101. \u0112ngari an\u014D t\u0113nei, e k\u0101o! E k\u0101o! Ko Te Reo M\u0101ori te mea whai mana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, nei au e t\u016B nei ki te whakah\u012Bh\u012B m\u014D te \u0101huatanga o ng\u0101 mahi kua oti nei i ng\u0101 \u0101piha, otir\u0101, ko taku r\u014Dp\u016B i haere i te mata o te whenua, ka mutu, ki Te Komiti Wh\u0101iti M\u0101ori n\u0101, ki te tiamana, otir\u0101, ki ng\u0101 ringa raup\u0101 o t\u014D t\u0101tau komiti, i mahitahi nei kia tutuki pai t\u0113nei kaupapa. N\u014D reira, me p\u0113nei pea hai whakatinana an\u014D hoki i t\u0113tahi w\u0101hanga o te pire h\u014Du, ar\u0101, kua puta te k\u014Drero o roto i \u0113tahi t\u0101piritanga, i raro i taku \u012Bngoa. Me k\u012B, he whakaaetanga m\u014D ng\u0101 p\u0113hitanga i rongo nei i Te Ao M\u0101ori i ng\u0101 tau kua hipa ake. I puta te k\u014Drero i te mata o te whenua, ko \u0113tahi i Te Tai Tokerau tonu. \u0112, i wepua \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 tamariki i te w\u0101 i a r\u0101tau e tamariki ana m\u014D te k\u014Drero i Te Reo M\u0101ori. I roto i t\u0113tahi pepa \u0101pitihanga i t\u0113nei p\u014D, ar\u0101 an\u014D t\u0113tahi k\u014Drero e mea ana ko Te K\u0101wanatanga, \u0101e, i h\u0113 rawa atu! I te h\u0113 t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga! \u0112ngari, ko t\u0101na ko te k\u012B atu, \u0101e, kua eke ki te w\u0101 kia mahitahi Te Karauna me Te Iwi M\u0101ori m\u014D te oranga o t\u014D t\u0101tau reo. Ka mutu, ko te w\u0101hanga tuatoru, me titiro ki t\u0113tahi rautaki m\u014D ng\u0101 r\u0101 kai mua i te aroaro. Koinei au e k\u012B nei, ko te w\u0101hi ki Te Karauna, he whakarite nei i t\u014Dna ake rautaki m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori m\u014D ng\u0101 tari o Te K\u0101wanatanga, t\u0113r\u0101 ka whakap\u016Bmau. \u0112ngari, me whakarite an\u014D r\u0101 Te Ao M\u0101ori i t\u014Dna ake huarahi, m\u0101 Te M\u0101t\u0101wai t\u0113r\u0101 e whakatinana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira k\u0101re e kore, ka k\u014Drerohia t\u0113nei take m\u014D te kupu whaka\u016B, te kupu whaka\u016B ka k\u014Drerohia i te p\u014D nei i te mea, kua rongo ake, \u0101, ar\u0101 an\u014D \u0113tahi pepa kai mua i te aroaro. \u0112ngari, ko t\u0101ku ko te k\u012B atu, he t\u012Bmatanga pai t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga. He t\u012Bmatanga pai, me te m\u014Dhio an\u014D hoki, he nui ng\u0101 mahi kai mua i te aroaro. Me p\u0113r\u0101 rawa te k\u014Drero! N\u014D reira, koinei \u0113tahi t\u012Bmatanga, me k\u012B, whakatakotoranga k\u014Drero ki mua i a t\u0101tau. Ki taku m\u014Dhio, kua eke t\u0113nei pire ki t\u014Dna taumata. Taihoa ake nei, n\u0101 runga i te \u0101huatanga o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero ka puta i te p\u014D nei, kua m\u014Dhio mai au ko ng\u0101 nawe, ko ng\u0101 uauatanga, ko ng\u0101 whakaaro a t\u0113n\u0101, a t\u0113n\u0101. Koinei te painga ake, kia noho nei t\u0101tau ki te w\u0101nanga, ki te w\u0101nanga i t\u014D t\u0101tau reo. N\u014D reira, koin\u0101 t\u0113tahi t\u012Bmatanga k\u014Drero e Te Tiamana m\u014D t\u0101tau i t\u0113nei p\u014D. Ka whakairia t\u0113r\u0101 kaupapa ki reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tau katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Mr Chair, thank you, and greetings to everyone in the Chamber. I would like to begin our debate by mentioning that this morning I arrived at Hiruh\u0101rama to mourn the passing of the ground-breaking broadcaster Whai Ngata, who is currently there lying in state. He was at the forefront of M\u0101ori broadcasting. I open our debate tonight by acknowledging him and saying to him, my friend Whai, rest in peace. You achieved everything you set out to do in this world. M\u0101ori language was the premise of all your undertakings in broadcasting. And so I say to you, and all of you, Hone Kaa and others, to all our dearly departed, rest in peace, rest in peace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EReturning to us presently, fellow members, indeed everyone gathered here in our Chamber, greetings, greetings one and all. I mention this man Whai Ngata as it was he who championed the issues in the department of\u2014what is the M\u0101ori name again for Television New Zealand? There, anyway. Wherever he worked he would write a M\u0101ori language book, a lexicon. Moreover, it was he and Ernie Leonard, Tini Fox, and others who were the vanguard of M\u0101ori language broadcasting on television through programmes such as Te Karere, Waka Huia, and Koha. It is only fitting for me to take a brief moment to acknowledge him and his passing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESecondly, members, I need to acknowledge all of you for the heartfelt contributions at the second reading. It is the first time I have heard both fluent M\u0101ori speakers, learners of M\u0101ori language, and those with a rudimentary knowledge of M\u0101ori carry the entire proceedings in the M\u0101ori language. We all agreed with the premise of this bill. I was particularly impressed at our common consensus and sense of purpose regarding this bill. It is only appropriate for me to thank and acknowledge all of you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThirdly, in my view, it could be said that this bill is a new beginning. At least that is the hope and expectation: to bring the Crown and M\u0101oridom together for the benefit of the M\u0101ori language. In bringing the Crown and M\u0101oridom together, we as M\u0101ori have a guardianship responsibility for the language, and to guide M\u0101ori language - related issues; the Te M\u0101t\u0101wai entity will be accordingly established. Its task will be to give substance to M\u0101ori aspirations. The Crown\u2019s responsibility is to also revive our language, but it has become too narrowly focused. It is hoped that through rejuvenated coordination and a single focus, speaking M\u0101ori throughout the country can be encouraged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe Te M\u0101t\u0101wai entity needs to be well established, as it will have a membership of some 13 sitting members. If we do not get that right then the whole thing could go downhill. Women should be represented, as should M\u0101ori language strategy experts. Representatives should not be sought based purely on their ability to speak M\u0101ori; although that certainly has its benefits, experience in M\u0101ori language revitalisation should be paramount. This, however, needs to be reiterated, and in particular I refer here to the M\u0101ori stakeholder group cluster; similarly for the management and administration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe premise of this bill is that the M\u0101ori language is the indigenous language of this land. M\u0101ori language is a treasure to the M\u0101ori people and to all of M\u0101oridom. It is also supposed to be a treasure for the whole nation and should be celebrated and treated accordingly. This bill in no way changes its unique status in the nation, which should be commended, and rightfully so. It is looking good at this point and rather than downplay the significance, indeed, the importance, of this bill, it should be deservedly acknowledged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EOf significant importance is the fact that this bill has been returned in both M\u0101ori language and English. This is very important. It is not the first time, but it is for this particular cause, empowering M\u0101ori language, and should any inter-lingual discrepancy arise, it will also be determined in M\u0101ori language. This is the bigger picture. Likewise with the Treaty of Waitangi, as a bilingual document, by right any inter-lingual discrepancy should be resolved based on the M\u0101ori text, that aside and for this purpose the M\u0101ori language will take precedence. Notwithstanding the Mokomoko (Restoration of Character, Mana, and Reputation) Act 2013; that bill was returned to the House in the M\u0101ori language, however, if any language discrepancy arose then the written English text would take precedence. This, on the other hand, is different, whereby that is not the case. The M\u0101ori language text will take precedence here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ETherefore, I am proud to stand here on behalf of the work completed by the officials, by my advisory group, who travelled the country, and, just as equally, the efforts of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee and its chairman, and the many tireless hands of our select committee, who worked together to bring this to fruition. In order to add substance to one aspect of the new bill, Supplementary Order Paper 164 in my name raises an acknowledgment of the oppression experienced by M\u0101ori over the years. It was reported that throughout the country, including in the far north, children received corporal punishment for speaking in the M\u0101ori language. In a Supplementary Order Paper this evening, reference is made to the Government being clearly in the wrong. Indeed, it should never have happened. However, what it is also saying is, yes, we have arrived at a stage where the Crown and M\u0101oridom can work together for the rejuvenation of our language. The third part looks at a strategy for the future. This is why I stipulate that the Crown will have responsibility to prepare its own strategy for M\u0101ori language, including setting a standard for the public sector. Simultaneously, M\u0101oridom should also prepare its own strategy, of which it shall be for the Te M\u0101t\u0101wai entity to bring to fruition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ENo doubt this issue of a formal acknowledgment will be debated this evening. As I have heard, there are other papers before us. What I will say, however, is that this is a good starting point, given the enormity of the task that lies ahead. Therefore, one could say this is just the beginning and these are the first lines. I believe this bill has reached its peak, or at least it will have pending our debate here tonight and any issues, difficulties, concerns, or feedback that come up in each contribution. This really is an ideal situation for us all to consider our language collectively. Therefore, Mr Chair, my appreciation to you for allowing me to open our debate this evening. I leave that matter there with my acknowledgments to you and to us all collectively.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u002299b0be40e9e947b0aaa1b53b66700541\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299b0be40e9e947b0aaa1b53b66700541\u0022\u003EPEENI HENARE (Labour\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, e Te Heamana. Hoi an\u014D t\u0101ku i te tuatahi, e tautoko atu ana i ng\u0101 mihi ki ng\u0101 tini aitu\u0101 e takahia nei i te ara wh\u0101nui ki Te P\u014D. R\u0101tau e takoto mai ana ki runga i ng\u0101 marae maha i t\u0113nei w\u0101 puta noa, haere, haere, haere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKia whakahokia mai ng\u0101 r\u0101rangi k\u014Drero ki a t\u0101tau i te pito ora, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. E Te Minita, pai te whakarongo atu ki t\u014D k\u014Drero hai t\u012Bmata ake i t\u014D t\u0101tau w\u0101nanga, me k\u012B. Te t\u0101hae ake i t\u014D kupu e k\u012Bia nei he \u201Cw\u0101nanga\u201D t\u0113nei. Kia kaua t\u0101tau e p\u014Dh\u0113h\u0113 m\u0101 te mahi ng\u0101tahi an\u0101 koin\u0101, ka tere te k\u0101rohirohi ki mua i a t\u0101tau me w\u0101 t\u0101tau mahi i te p\u014D nei. \u0112ngari, ko te k\u012B atu n\u0101 roto i te mahitahi, ko te totohe, ko te w\u0101nanga, kei konei t\u0101tau i te p\u014D nei. N\u014D reira, e mihi atu ana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EE Te Minita, kai roto i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o t\u0113nei taha, ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga e tautoko ana i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kai roto i te pire. Ko \u0113tahi atu, kei konei m\u0101tau e totohe ana i w\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 kupu. W\u0113tahi, kia matawh\u0101iti te titiro ki w\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kai roto. Me te hiahia kia whakakaha ake, kia whakapakari ake i w\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 w\u0101hanga kai roto i te pire. N\u014D reira, kua k\u014Drero mai n\u0101 koe m\u014D ng\u0101 rerek\u0113tanga kua rewa nei ki mua i te aroaro o Te Komiti i t\u0113nei p\u014D. An\u0101, kai a m\u0101tau w\u0113tahi, i whai tautoko m\u0101tau m\u014D \u0113tahi o \u0113nei o ng\u0101 whakarerek\u0113tanga. Kua k\u014Drero mai n\u0101 e koe m\u014D t\u0113tahi o aua whakarerek\u0113tanga, an\u0101 e p\u0101 ana ki te whakaae a te K\u0101wanatanga n\u0101 r\u0101tau i t\u016Bkinohia, n\u0101 r\u0101tau i t\u0101unu i t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo M\u0101ori ki raro. Hoi an\u014D t\u0101 m\u0101tau e tautoko ana i t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero \u0113ngari, ko te whai atu m\u0101tau i t\u0113tahi whakap\u0101ha, i t\u0113tahi atu k\u014Drero mai i te K\u0101wanatanga hai tau i te mauri me ng\u0101 mamaetanga kua k\u014Drero mai n\u0101 e koe, kua rangona e koe puta noa i te motu wh\u0101nui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKa rua, kua k\u014Drero mai n\u0101 e koe, e Te Minita, m\u014D t\u0113tahi atu w\u0101hanga ki runga i te poari o Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. E k\u012Bia nei e wh\u0101nui ake ana taku titiro ki te pire i t\u0113nei w\u0101, taihoa ake ka patu kutu t\u0101tau. K\u0101ti. Kua k\u014Drero mai n\u0101 e koe m\u014D t\u0113tahi atu w\u0101hanga e p\u0101 ana ki Te M\u0101t\u0101wai, e k\u012Bia nei ka \u0101hei te hunga e matatau ana ki te whakarauora i Te Reo M\u0101ori, ahakoa wahine mai, t\u0101ne mai. Ko t\u0113tahi atu k\u014Drero kai roto i ng\u0101 rerek\u0113tanga e hiahia ana m\u0101tau ki te tuku atu i mua i a koe me Te Komiti katoa i te p\u014D nei, e mea atu ana, me \u014Drite te noho a te wahine me te t\u0101ne ki runga i te poari o Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. Me te hiahia pea kia whai reo, kia whai whakaaro t\u0101tau ki te hunga rangatahi, t\u0101 te mea kai a r\u0101tau te mana o Te Reo M\u0101ori ki roto i ng\u0101 tau kei mua i a t\u0101tau. Mehemea e tino whakaae ana t\u0101tau ki t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero, ko r\u0101tau ko ng\u0101 rangatira o \u0101p\u014Dp\u014D t\u0113n\u0101. Me tukuna atu t\u0113tahi w\u0101hanga ki a r\u0101tau kia \u0101hei ai r\u0101tau ki te mirimiri i t\u0113nei kaupapa ki t\u0101 r\u0101tau e hiahia, ki t\u0101 r\u0101tau i manako ai. N\u014D reira, ka kite koe i t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero ki roto i te roanga o te totohe i te p\u014D nei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EE Te Minita, e mea nei t\u0113nei \u0101huatanga o Te Ao M\u0101ori, ko te whakapapa he mea tino nui ki a t\u0101tau katoa. N\u014D reira ka hoki atu ahau ki te whakapapa kua k\u014Drero mai n\u0101 e koe, mai i ng\u0101 tau waru tekau i te pire tuatahi e p\u0101 ana ki Te Reo M\u0101ori. Ko t\u014Dna takahanga mai ki t\u0113nei t\u0101ima, ana me te pire e kitea nei t\u0101tau i te p\u014D nei. \u0100, n\u014D reira, mehemea e whakaae ana, ko te whakapapa te mea nui ki Te Iwi M\u0101ori, \u0113, ka whakaaro ake ahau m\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 whakap\u0101hatanga ka tukuna atu ki mua i a koe ki roto i w\u0101 m\u0101tau pepa whakarerek\u0113 i te pire nei. E tautoko ana i t\u014D k\u014Drero e Te Minita e mea atu ana, \u0101e, ko te take nui o te w\u0101 nei ko Te Reo M\u0101ori. N\u014D reira kei roto i \u0113tahi o w\u0101 m\u0101tau nawe, w\u0101 m\u0101tau amuamu m\u014D te pire nei, k\u012Bhei m\u0101tau i kite atu i t\u0113tahi taumata tiketike e manakohia nei e m\u0101tau, e t\u0101tau Te Iwi M\u0101ori m\u014D t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo. \u0100e, ka whakaritea nei, e k\u012Bia nei e te pire ko te t\u016B\u0101papa. Hoi an\u014D t\u014D m\u0101tau e mea atu ana, \u0101e, he t\u016B\u0101papa, he mea pai t\u0113n\u0101, me whakaritea! \u0112ngari ko te mea nui, ko ng\u0101 manako e wawatahia nei e m\u0101tau, kia tiro atu ki roto i te pire t\u0101 te mea, anei hoki te mana o Te Reo M\u0101ori e whakaturengia i te p\u014D nei. E whakaturengia i te p\u014D nei, n\u014D reira ko te hiahia, kia whakarite taumata, kia whakarite taumata e hiahia ana t\u0101tau m\u014D Te M\u0101t\u0101wai te whai atu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EE Te Minita, t\u0101 te mea he titiro wh\u0101nui t\u0113nei ki te pire, \u0101 taihoa ake nei ka rukuhia ki t\u014Dna h\u014Dhonutanga. Ko konei tonu \u0113tahi \u0101wangawanga e p\u0101 ana ki ng\u0101 \u0101pitihanga kai muri r\u0101 i te pire e mea atu ana, ko ng\u0101 iwi me ng\u0101 hap\u016B kai roto. Ko kon\u0101 w\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 \u0101wangawanga. Ka mea ake \u0113tahi ki roto i t\u014Dku rohe \u0113, \u0101e, ko kon\u0101 ko ng\u0101 iwi, ko kon\u0101 ko \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 hap\u016B. Ka p\u0113hea nei te hunga kore p\u0101 ki te k\u0101inga? K\u0101ti, koin\u0101 an\u014D w\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 whakaaro kai mua i te aroaro e Te Minita. Korekore kai roto i te roanga ake o t\u0113nei ka kitea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EK\u0101ti, hei whakakapi ake. Ki te taha o Te Maihi Karauna. Ka whakaaro ake ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero katoa o w\u0101 t\u0101tau m\u0101tua t\u016Bpuna e mea atu ana, ko te m\u0101tauranga te oranga o Te Iwi M\u0101ori. N\u014D reira ko te hiahia, kia \u0101hua t\u012Bnihia i te k\u014Drero, an\u0101, ko te m\u0101tauranga te oranga o Te Reo M\u0101ori. N\u014D reira, ko konei w\u0113tahi \u0101wangawanga, ka k\u014Drerohia ki roto i te p\u014D nei e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga, me te hiahia kia kite i t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo M\u0101ori ki roto i ng\u0101 kura. Kia tupu pai ai m\u014D te katoa. Kaua ko Te Iwi M\u0101ori anake e mea nei te pire. Ko te hiahia kia whai p\u0101nga te motu wh\u0101nui ki ng\u0101 nekehanga me ng\u0101 mana kai roto i t\u0113nei pire. K\u0101ti, e Te Minita, e Te Komiti, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Chairman. Firstly, I support the acknowledgments to our many deceased who are travelling upon the extensive pathway towards the Darkness. To those lying in state upon the multitudes of marae at this time, farewell, farewell, farewell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ENow let us return the debate to the realm of the living; greetings. Minister Flavell, it is wonderful to hear your opening comments to our w\u0101nanga, or deliberations. I stole your term \u201Cw\u0101nanga\u201D to describe these proceedings. We must not assume that through cooperation the proceedings this evening will run smoothly. However, I assert that cooperation alongside debate and deliberation has brought us together this evening. And so may I congratulate you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EMinister, this side of the Chamber supports some of the provisions in the bill whilst being opposed to other parts of the bill. Some wish to focus on improving certain parts of the bill. And so you have spoken about the amendments presented to the Committee this evening. And we have our own amendments, which have gained support. You commented on one of those amendments relating to an acknowledgment by the Crown that it mistreated and disparaged the M\u0101ori language. We endorse that amendment, but we are pursuing an apology from the Government to resolve the pain that you said you heard throughout the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESecondly, Minister, you have spoken about appointments to the Te M\u0101t\u0101wai board. I am now considering the bill in a wide-ranging manner, and we will soon be nitpicking. Enough. You have spoken about a section in the bill which allows for the inclusion of people proficient in language revitalisation initiatives. One of the amendments that we will put before the Minister and the Committee this evening deals with the gender balance on the Te M\u0101t\u0101wai board. We maintain that there should be the same number of women as men on Te M\u0101t\u0101wai, and that consideration must be given to youth representation on the board, because they will uphold the mana of the M\u0101ori language in the future. If we truly agree that our youth are tomorrow\u2019s leaders, then they must be represented so they can address this matter in ways that meet their needs and wishes. Therefore, you will hear that assertion throughout the debate this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EMinister, a key feature of M\u0101ori culture that is paramount to all M\u0101ori is genealogy. And so I would like to recall the genealogy that you described from the 1987 M\u0101ori Language Act to the present bill that we are considering tonight. And so if we agree that genealogy is paramount to M\u0101ori people, then the apology in our Supplementary Order Paper 165 on the bill must be considered. I agree with the Minister that the M\u0101ori language is currently the primary issue. Therefore, we have our objections and complaints towards the bill. We have not found a standard of excellence that meets our expectations\u2014the hopes of M\u0101ori for our language. Yes, the bill provides a foundation, and that is good. However, what is important is that we consider our needs and aspirations, because the mana of the M\u0101ori language is going through its passage into law this evening. It is passing through the legislative process this evening and so there is a need to arrange a standard for Te M\u0101t\u0101wai to pursue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EMinister, as this is a broad examination of the bill we will not delve into its complexities. We have concerns pertaining to the schedules at the end of the bill that list the cluster of iwi and hap\u016B. That is where we have concerns. Some people in my electorate have said that iwi and hap\u016B are included, but what about those who do not have a connection to the homelands? That is a concern that lies before us, Minister Flavell. There is no doubt that in time that concern will come to fruition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, the Crown has responsibility for the Maihi Karauna strategy. I want to recognise our ancestral history, which states that the survival of the M\u0101ori people lies in education. Therefore, I would like to change part of that statement to say that the survival of the M\u0101ori language lies in education. And so this is one concern that I will express this evening, along with a desire to see more M\u0101ori language taught in schools so that it may grow for the benefit of everyone, not just M\u0101ori, as outlined in the bill. The objective is for the entire country to become interested in the progress and influence within this bill. Enough, Minister and the Committee, acknowledgments to you and to us all collectively.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022502b689ef626454f845e64295077aeb0\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101, otir\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau e whakawh\u0101iti nei i t\u0113nei p\u014D i runga i t\u0113nei kaupapa \u0101taahua. Tuatahi, kei te tangi hoki ahau ki t\u014Dku p\u0101p\u0101 ki a Whairiri Ngata, i a ia e takoto ana i waenga o Ngati Porou, i waenga i t\u014Dna ake hap\u016B, a Te Aitanga-a-Mate, i runga i te mahau o t\u014Dna a tipuna whare a Kapohanga ki Hiruh\u0101rama Marae. P\u014Duri rawa atu ahau, k\u0101re i tae \u0101-tinana atu ahau ki te k\u0101inga \u0113ngari, me whakaaro ake ahau m\u014D taku tipuna k\u014Dk\u0101 a Mihihara. Ko ia, tata ki 90 tau, ko t\u014Dna tama a Whairiri e takoto ana i runga i te mahau. N\u014D reira, ka tika me poroporoaki ahau, otir\u0101, t\u0101tau e Te Minita ki a ia, me \u0113r\u0101 kei runga i ng\u0101 marae maha o Te Motu. N\u014D reira, ki a r\u0101tau, haere atu, haere atu, haere atu r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EHoki mai ki a t\u0101tau ng\u0101 kanohi ora, ng\u0101 waihotanga iho o r\u0101tau m\u0101, e whiriwhiri nei i t\u0113nei kaupapa e p\u0101 ana ki t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo M\u0101ori, Reo a t\u0113n\u0101 iwi, a t\u0113n\u0101 iwi, a t\u0113n\u0101 iwi, me ng\u0101 \u0101taahua o \u0113r\u0101 rerek\u0113tanga e p\u0101 ana ki te mita o ng\u0101 iwi katoa o Aotearoa nei. E tika ana me hoki ng\u0101 mahara ki a Whairiri me t\u014Dna p\u0101p\u0101 ki a H\u014Dri Mahue n\u014D te mea, n\u0101 r\u0101ua i whakaoti te pukapuka takikupu m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori. \u0112hara ko r\u0101ua anake \u0113ngari, he tino mahi n\u0101 r\u0101ua m\u014D t\u0101tau katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EN\u0101, i t\u0113nei p\u014D e k\u014Drero ana m\u014D t\u0113nei taonga o t\u0101tau, ko Te Reo M\u0101ori, te reo taketake o Aotearoa wh\u0101nui. Me t\u0113nei pire \u0113hara i te mea, ko t\u0113nei pire, \u0101, kei te tika he whakature te mana o Te Reo \u0113ngari, kaua e p\u014Dh\u0113h\u0113 t\u0101tau, ka whai mana Te Reo i roto i te ture. \u0112ngari, he mana an\u014D t\u014D t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo. \u0112ngari, ko te tino kaupapa o t\u0113nei p\u014D, ka kite katoa t\u0101tau, he Reo m\u014D Aotearoa. Kei te tika t\u0101 te mema o t\u0113r\u0101 taha, ka whai w\u0101hi katoa ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata katoa kei roto i t\u0113nei pire. Mehemea ko te tino tikanga, kia ora, kia pakari t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo, ko te tikanga ka taea e te katoa o Aotearoa wh\u0101nui te k\u014Drero, te waiata, te m\u014Dteatea, te haka i roto i t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo. N\u0101, kei roto i t\u0113nei pire kei mua i a t\u0101tau, he hiranga t\u0113nei pire. He t\u016B\u0101papa m\u014D Te Reo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u0100, kei te kite hoki kei roto i t\u0113nei pire, kei ng\u0101 iwi me te hapori M\u0101ori, t\u014D r\u0101tau mahi, kei t\u014Dna t\u014D Te Karauna. Me t\u0113nei whakam\u0101rama ki a t\u0101tau \u0113hara i te mea, ko Te Karauna t\u0113nei taha o Te Whare. Ko Te Karauna, te katoa o t\u0101tau kei roto i Te Whare P\u0101remata, n\u0113. N\u014D reira, i runga i t\u0113nei whakapapa, kua k\u014Drerohia e t\u0101tau i t\u0113nei p\u014D, kei a t\u0101tau katoa te mahi hei waha i t\u0113nei kaupapa, me ng\u0101 h\u0113 e p\u0101 ana ki ng\u0101 K\u0101wanatanga o te w\u0101, ahakoa ko wai. \u0112ngari, ko te wero ki a t\u0101tau i t\u0113nei w\u0101, me whakapiki te ora o Te Reo, me whakapakari ahakoa ki roto i ng\u0101 kura, \u0101e, e tautoko kaha ana ki t\u0113r\u0101, i roto i ng\u0101 whare w\u0101nanga. Hoi an\u014D, ko te tino mahi m\u0101 t\u0101tau, ki te k\u014Drero i roto i ng\u0101 k\u0101inga, i te taha o ng\u0101 papa t\u0101karo, i roto i ng\u0101 h\u0101hi, i a t\u0101tau e haere ana ki te hoko i roto i ng\u0101 toa. Kei ng\u0101 w\u0101hi katoa t\u0101tau e k\u014Drero ana. Mehemea ka taea t\u0113r\u0101, ka taea t\u0113nei Reo te whakapakari m\u014D t\u0101tau, m\u014D ng\u0101 whakatipuranga \u0101kuni kei te heke tonu mai. \u0100, he taonga, \u0101e, he taonga. Ko te tino \u0101taahua o te taonga, ka taea e t\u0101tau te mita o \u014D t\u0101tau ake iwi, n\u0113. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau o ng\u0101 iwi katoa o Aotearoa me t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101taahua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003ETe rautaki m\u0101 te taha ki ng\u0101 iwi me te hapori M\u0101ori m\u0101 r\u0101tau e hanga, hei wero ki a r\u0101tau, hei wero hoki ki a m\u0101tau i roto i Te Whare P\u0101remata i roto hoki i Te K\u0101wanatanga. \u0100, m\u0101 m\u0101tau hoki e hanga he rautaki pai, ka kite ng\u0101 whakahaerenga K\u0101wanatanga katoa i ng\u0101 huarahi m\u0101 r\u0101tau hei para kia tautoko ng\u0101 wawata, ng\u0101 hiahia, ng\u0101 moemoe\u0101 katoa i te taha kei ng\u0101 iwi, i te taha M\u0101ori hoki. N\u014D reira, e tautoko ana ahau i t\u0113nei. \u0112hara i te mea he mahi m\u0101m\u0101 t\u0113nei, he huarahi ng\u0101wari t\u0113nei m\u014D Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. M\u014D te whiriwhiri ko wai ka eke ki runga i Te M\u0101t\u0101wai, n\u0113? N\u014D te mea kei te m\u014Dhio ahau k\u0101re e taea te poari o Te M\u0101t\u0101wai, ka puta ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata katoa hei kanohi m\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 iwi, m\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 hap\u016B, m\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 marae. N\u0101 reira he uaua t\u0113r\u0101 mahi te whiriwhiri ko wai ka eke ki runga i t\u0113nei poari n\u014D te mea, kei te m\u014Dhio t\u0101tau, ahakoa w\u0101 r\u0101tau mahi nui, k\u0101re e taea e r\u0101tau te ea ng\u0101 wawata katoa o t\u0101tau. N\u0101 reira ko t\u0101ku ki a t\u0101tau, ko taku akiaki ki a t\u0101tau, kaua e waiho ki Te M\u0101t\u0101wai, ki Te K\u0101wanatanga, ki Te Karauna r\u0101nei \u0113nei mahi katoa e waha. \u0112ngari, me whakahau t\u0101tau i a t\u0101tau ki te k\u014Drero M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EKei te rongo atu koutou, t\u0101tau, ka tapepe taku reo i \u0113tahi w\u0101; k\u0101re i te whakapapa pai \u0113tahi o aku kupu. Hoi an\u014D, mehemea k\u0101re t\u0101tau i te k\u014Drero t\u0113nei Reo, k\u0101re e ora t\u0113nei Reo. N\u0101 reira, me k\u014Drero t\u0101tau ahakoa he aha. Ka hoki aku maharatanga ki te w\u0101 i ora ai taku k\u014Dk\u0101. He tino Ngati a ia. Ahakoa he aha, ka rewa ake te r\u0101, ka k\u014Drero a ia i roto i Te Reo o Ngati Porou, \u0101, ka moe te r\u0101, ka k\u014Drero tonu a ia i Te Reo o Ngati Porou. I a ia e whakarongo ana ki a au, e k\u014Drero ana i runga i te pouaka whakaata, te reo irirangi r\u0101nei i roto i Te Reo, ka waea mai a ia: \u201CKei te h\u0113 koe m\u014D t\u0113nei, kei te h\u0113 koe m\u014D t\u0113nei, \u0113ngari, kia kaha koe ki te k\u014Drero i t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo, n\u0113.\u201D Koir\u0101 te pai o ng\u0101 m\u0101tua, o ng\u0101 k\u014Dk\u0101 ki a t\u0101tau katoa. Ahakoa i roto i Te Reo M\u0101ori, te reo P\u0101keh\u0101, te reo a wai ake, te whakatikatika i a t\u0101tau, kia pakari te haere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira koin\u0101 anake t\u0101ku i t\u0113nei p\u014D, me te mihi ki a koe e Te Minita. He mahi taumaha t\u0113nei m\u014Dhou, m\u014D t\u014D hoa haere m\u014D Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i waenga i te marea. Ki a koe e te heamana o t\u014D t\u0101tau komiti whakahaere me ng\u0101 hinengaro tautoko, ng\u0101 hinengaro wero kei roto i t\u0113r\u0101 komiti. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau e whiriwhiri nei i t\u0113nei kaupapa \u0101taahua, kia kite t\u0101tau i t\u0113nei taonga m\u014D t\u0101tau m\u014D ng\u0101 reanga kei te haere tonu mai. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau katoa, kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Chairman, and all gathered here this evening on this matter. First, I lament the passing of my elder kin Whairiri Ngata, who lies in state in Ngati Porou territory in the realm of his hap\u016B, Te Aitanga-a-Mate, in the porch of his ancestral house Kapohanga on Hiruh\u0101rama Marae. I am desolate that I was unable to attend his funeral. At this moment I think of my great-aunt Mihihara. She is almost 90 years of age, her son Whairiri lying in state on the porch. It is only proper that we farewell his passing, Minister Flavell, he and others lying in state on many marae throughout the land. So farewell to all our losses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EReturning now to the gathering here this evening, we the living embodiment of the dead, we who are gathered here to discuss this great matter pertaining to our language and the dialects of individual iwi, the beauty of the various dialects of Aotearoa. It is only right that we honour the memory of Whairiri and his father, H\u014Dri Mahue, for they, allied with others, compiled a dictionary of the M\u0101ori language for all our benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003ETonight our debate focuses on the treasure that is our M\u0101ori language, the indigenous language of this country. This bill, however, does not give effect to the prestige of the language in the annals of the law, lest we have the mistaken belief that is the process we are going through, for the language has its own innate prestige. The focus of our discussions this evening is a language for all of Aotearoa. The member from the Opposition is correct; all people will find their interests accommodated within this bill. If that is our goal, to ensure the survival and the maturation of our language so that all the people of Aotearoa are conversant with the language, the songs, the chants, and haka entirely in our language, this bill before us is one of great importance. It is a foundation for the language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EThe bill sets out the role of iwi and M\u0101ori communities and the role of the Crown. Let me clarify. The Crown is not limited to members sitting on this side of the Chamber. Rather, the Crown is represented by all the members of this Committee. Therefore, we all have a responsibility to carry out the provisions of this bill, regardless of who is the Government of the time, regardless of the wrongs of individual Governments. But the challenge before us this evening is to revitalise our language, whether in the education system or otherwise. I fully support that and language initiatives in our tertiary institutions, but the main focus of our efforts should be to return the language as a language of common use in the home, on the sports fields, in our places of religion, and when we go to the shops. All places should be places where the language can be, and is, spoken. If we succeed in those contexts we will have come a long way to ensuring the language will be alive for our generations growing and generations yet born. It is a treasure. The beauty of this treasure is that it accommodates the dialects of individual iwi. That is a beautiful thing to adorn our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EThe strategy for iwi and M\u0101ori communities will be formulated by iwi and the M\u0101ori community. That is the challenge to them and that is the challenge to the members of this Committee and Government. And we must formulate an effective strategy that encapsulates all Government agencies, a strategy that enhances and supports the dreams and aspirations of iwi and M\u0101ori. I support this. This will not be an easy task for the group Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. Another challenge will be the composition of Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. It must represent the interests of all people, of all iwi, of all hap\u016B, of all marae. It will be a difficult task to choose the membership of that panel, for, as we know, despite their achievements they will not be able to realise all our aspirations. So I urge us, do not leave this work of great moment just in the hands of Te M\u0101t\u0101wai or the Government or the Crown. We must exhort each other to speak the M\u0101ori language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EAs you listen to my speech you can pick up errors of a grammatical nature; some of my words are not quite the right fit. However, if we do not make an attempt to speak, the language will not survive. So I urge us all to speak, regardless. I recall when my mother was alive. She was a true Ngati. Every day that would dawn, she would speak our Ngati Porou dialect and at day\u2019s end she would be speaking the dialect of Ngati Porou. She would listen to me speaking on television or on the radio, then ring me up to berate me: \u201CYou did not say this correctly, you said that wrongly, but keep talking our language.\u201D That is the strength and value of our parents, of our mothers. No matter if the language be M\u0101ori or English or some other, we must strive to improve our proficiency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EThat is the sum of my contribution this evening, and I applaud the Minister for M\u0101ori Development. This has been a trying time for you, your predecessor Pita, and the M\u0101ori Party. I salute you, the chairman of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, Nuk Korako, for the rigour that your select committee put this bill through. Commendations to us this evening on this marvellous bill that aims to ensure the survival and retention of our language for the generations to come. Acknowledgments to us all, and thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002282a26cea303749b593cbe4d306e031ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282a26cea303749b593cbe4d306e031ba\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call a member, I just want to indicate to the Committee that notwithstanding the fact that the Committee did not give leave to consider all the parts as one question, there has been, I think, a bit of a spreading around\u2014in particular into Te W\u0101hanga 1, or Part 1, and the Minister for M\u0101ori Development\u2019s amendments to that\u2014in the speeches that we have heard so far. What I am proposing to do is just to run pretty liberally with these clauses, and then maybe be a bit tighter and take into account what has been said when we come to the appropriate parts. I do not think I am asking you; I am just telling you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002295d7c601687f47899c35d4873463b931\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295d7c601687f47899c35d4873463b931\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, e Te Heamana o Te Whare. Otir\u0101, kei te mihi hoki au ki a r\u0101tau m\u0101 kua wehe atu ki tua o te \u0101rai, ki te k\u0101inga t\u016Bturu m\u014D t\u0101tau m\u014D te tangata. Whakapiri taku mi\u2019i poroporoaki ki ng\u0101 mi\u2019i kua mi\u2019ia, otinoa, kei te mi\u2019i \u2018oki au ki a Waaka Palmer, te heamana o te komiti matua o Te Haahi R\u0101tana, k\u0101ta\u2019i an\u014D i nana\u2019i r\u0101 ka ne\u2019ua. N\u014D reira, e te matua, oki wairua atu ki a r\u0101tau m\u0101 i te w\u0101\u2019i ngaro, n\u014D reira, e \u2018oki, e moe, e moe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u0100, ki a t\u0101tau ng\u0101 mema o Te P\u0101remata, e k\u012B ana te k\u014Drero i te tau 1924 o t\u0113r\u0101 rautau: \u201CKia mau ki t\u014D Reo e te iwi. Ka nui te ngaro haere o t\u0113nei \u0101\u2019uatanga. N\u0101 t\u014D Reo \u2018oki, ka m\u014D\u2019iotia ai he M\u0101ori. Ka k\u016Bare koe ki t\u014D Reo, ka meinga n\u014D ng\u0101 whenua noa atu.\u201D Koin\u0101 te k\u014Drero o Ta\u2019up\u014Dtiki W\u012Bremu R\u0101tana i te tau 1924. \u0100, ko t\u014Dku nei \u0101wangawanga ki t\u0113nei k\u014Drero, i te tau 2001, e 25.15 paih\u0113neti o ng\u0101 M\u0101ori e m\u014D\u2019io ana, e matatau ana ki Te Reo M\u0101ori. I te tau 2013, kua heke iho ki te 21 paih\u0113neti noa iho. \u0100, e tika ana tana k\u014Drero i te tau 1924, o t\u0113r\u0101 rau tau kei te tika tonu i t\u0113nei r\u0101 n\u0101 te mea, ka \u2018eke iho te tokomaha o t\u0101tau e matatau ana ki Te Reo. N\u014D reira, e tika ana kia whakat\u016Bria t\u0113nei ture hou m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EE tautoko ana a\u2019au i te nuinga o ng\u0101 take, ng\u0101 w\u0101hanga kei roto i t\u0113nei pire. He p\u0101tai t\u0101ku i te w\u0101hanga kei te haere mai. K\u0101ore e kore ka tuku atu ahau i ng\u0101 p\u0101tai m\u014D ng\u0101 \u0101\u2019uatanga e p\u0101 ana ki Te M\u0101t\u0101wai, e p\u0101 ana ki ng\u0101 maihi, mai\u2019i M\u0101ori me te mai\u2019i Karauna. \u0100, \u0101hua \u0101wangawanga ahau e rua ng\u0101 maihi e t\u016B ana, pai t\u0113n\u0101 m\u014D te whare. Otir\u0101, ko t\u0113hea maihi te tino rangatira m\u014D t\u0113nei \u0101huatanga: te Maihi Karauna, te Maihi M\u0101ori r\u0101nei? Koin\u0101, \u0113te\u2019i o \u014Dku whakaaro m\u014D t\u0113n\u0101. He kaupapa an\u014D hoki t\u0101ku i roto i t\u0113nei pire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Chair. I also pay tribute to those dearly departed who have returned to the spiritual homeland. I pay homage to those already mentioned and also to Waaka Palmer, the chairman of the executive committee of the R\u0101tana Church, who was buried only yesterday. To you, our uncle, may your spirit return in peace to those gone before you, and may you rest in peace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EFellow members of Parliament, as was said last century, in 1924: \u201CPeople, retain your language. There is great loss from attrition. Through your language you will be known as M\u0101ori. If you are ignorant of your language you could be from any other place.\u201D This was stated by Ta\u2019up\u014Dtiki W\u012Bremu R\u0101tana in 1924. My concern regarding this statement is that in 2001, 25.15 percent of M\u0101ori were fluent or very fluent in M\u0101ori language. By 2013 this had dropped to just 21 percent. As true as it was in 1924 it remains true to us today, as the number of speakers of M\u0101ori is declining. Therefore, it is only appropriate to establish new M\u0101ori language legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI support most of the rationale and sections within this bill. I also have questions that I will raise at the next sitting. No doubt I will be asking questions around the Te M\u0101t\u0101wai entity, as well as the dual language strategies; both the M\u0101ori strategy and the Crown strategy, as I do have some concerns. Two strategies will be established, which fits with the model. However, which strategy will have precedence: the Crown strategy or the strategy for M\u0101ori? These are some of my preliminary thoughts regarding the substance of this bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EOne of the principles in the bill talks about sustaining Te Reo M\u0101ori and how that can be done intergenerationally. My concern is that we may not be actually addressing that particular issue in a way that includes those generations that have missed out on having Te Reo M\u0101ori as their mother language, including myself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI want to say this in English, that the historical and intergenerational trauma caused by Government policy of the day has meant that the language was virtually lost over less than three generations. My overall concern is whether or not the measures taken in this bill will be enough. But I do endorse the words from the Hon Hekia Parata and what she contributed to the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EWe actually cannot rely on just the Government and the Crown alone. We have to, as M\u0101ori, wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi, also take that responsibility. My hope, in this bill, is that through having a M\u0101ori strategy and a Crown strategy we will indeed be able to help the situation that most of a whole generation or two have found themselves in, and that the decline in speaking Te Reo M\u0101ori, from 25 percent in 2001 down to 21.13 percent in 2013, can be halted and turned round, to the point that we can get to a sustainable level. I understand it is mostly accepted that you need to have 30 percent of your population being able to speak the language for it to be sustainable. N\u014D reira, koin\u0101 aku whakaaro i te tuata\u2019i, e Te Komiti t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Those, then, are my initial thoughts, so acknowledgments to us, the Committee.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u00220dd19524ca364baebfa2af5e2b87c5fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220dd19524ca364baebfa2af5e2b87c5fb\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, e Te Tiamana. E huri noa i Te Whare nei, e mihi atu ki a koutou katoa. E ka mea nui ki te mihi atu ki t\u014D t\u0101tau Matua Nui i Te Raki. Ko ia te t\u012Bmataka me te whakaotika o t\u0101tau katoa. N\u014D reira, ka mihi atu ki Te Kaih\u014Dmai o k\u0101 mea pai katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EKa maumaharatia e te rakatira o Te Wai Pounamu, a Reverend Canon William George Ehau. N\u014D reira, e P\u0101, e haere atu r\u0101, e haere atu r\u0101 ki te p\u0101 o te whakawairua, e takoto mai, takoto mai, takoto mai!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EE Te Kaiwhakahaere, \u0101, ko t\u0113nei k\u014Drero m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori, i te w\u0101hanga 1, ng\u0101 whiti t\u016B mua. T\u0113n\u0101 koe i t\u0113nei te w\u0101hanga 1 o te pire nei. E ka hoki au ki ng\u0101 whiti 3, ki te 10 o te w\u0101hanga nei. Tuatahi, ka k\u014Drero me te wh\u0101nui me te kaupapa me ng\u0101 wh\u0101inga o te pire nei. Ar\u0101, he whaka\u016B i te mana o Te Reo M\u0101ori hei reo taketake m\u014D Niu T\u012Breni taoka hoki, m\u0101 ng\u0101 iwi me ng\u0101 M\u0101ori. He Reo hoki ka kaing\u0101kautia o te motu reo whai mana e ture e hoki m\u014D Niu T\u012Breni. Koin\u0101 te wh\u0101inga o aua whiti e toru, te whakamana i taua kaupapa. Ko t\u0113tahi \u0101huataka o te whiti tuawh\u0101, ko te t\u0101piritaka a Te Komiti Whiriwhiri i Te K\u014Drero, e mea ai, h\u0101unga te mea ko ng\u0101 iwi, me te M\u0101ori ng\u0101 kaitiaki o Te Reo M\u0101ori. Ka mau tonu ng\u0101 kawenga o Te Karauna e p\u0101 ana ki Te Reo M\u0101ori. H\u0101unga te iwi kawenga, o Te Iwi M\u0101ori hei kaitiaki o Te Reo, kia kaua rawa e makere ng\u0101 kawenga o Te Karauna. Ko te whiti paku wh\u0101 ira toru ka whakap\u016Bmau i t\u0113r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EKa takoto te whiti h\u014Du a Te Minita, ko whiti 5A. He whiti t\u016Btohu te whiti nei, he rite ai ki ng\u0101 t\u016Btohutaka kei ng\u0101 pire whakatau ker\u0113me Tiriti. Ka whakaaehia ng\u0101 takahitaka a Te Karauna i ng\u0101 tau ki mua i te kore tiaki whakatairaka i Te Reo M\u0101ori. Ka whakap\u016Bmau ia ki te mahitahi me Te M\u0101ori me ng\u0101 iwi ki te tiaki me te whakatairaka i Te Reo \u0101 ng\u0101 r\u0101 kei te t\u016B. He whiti nui t\u0113nei, kei te koa ahau ka whai w\u0101hi ki te pire. H\u0101ngai p\u016B te pire nei ki te t\u016B me te t\u016Btaki o Te Reo M\u0101ori i te ao hou, kia kaha ake ai Te Reo. Hoi, i te t\u012Bmataka me aro ake te pire ki ng\u0101 mahi kei mua me te whakaae a Te Karauna. Ka t\u0101piri e te whiti nei, ki te pire k\u0101tahi ka tahuri ki ng\u0101 m\u0101t\u0101pono \u0101rahi i te pire me ng\u0101 \u0101whina ki te h\u0101pai me te whakaora i Te Reo M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EKo whiti 6 ka whakap\u016Bmau i ng\u0101 tika ki te k\u014Drero M\u0101ori i roto i ng\u0101 mahi me te ture, e mea whakamanatia i Te Ture Reo M\u0101ori i te tau 1987. Ka takoto i whiti 6A ng\u0101 m\u0101t\u0101pono \u0101rahi i t\u0113nei ture tae atu ki ng\u0101 rautaki, t\u0113r\u0101 ka ara ake. Kua k\u014Drero au m\u014D te w\u0101hi nui ki Te Karauna ki te h\u0101pai me te whakaora i Te Reo M\u0101ori i ng\u0101 r\u0101 kei te t\u016B. Ka whakawh\u0101nui \u0113nei kawenga i ng\u0101 whiti ka k\u014Drero m\u014D ng\u0101 m\u0101t\u0101pono. Kei konei he rerenga k\u014Drero nui, ar\u0101, ko te mahitahitaka. Ka mahi tata Te Karauna me ng\u0101 iwi me Te M\u0101ori, ka mana ana te pire nei ka whakat\u016Bria ko Te M\u0101t\u0101wai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EHeoi, ka haere tonu ng\u0101 mahi a Te Karauna, ka haere tonu ng\u0101 mahi a Te Karauna k\u0101hore e mutu ki reira. Me mahitahi haere ng\u0101 taha e rua ki te whakatairaka i Te Reo. Ko te tuawhitu ka whakatakoto m\u0101t\u0101pono hei \u0101rahi i ng\u0101 tari K\u0101wanataka. Me matua k\u014Drero r\u0101tau ki ng\u0101 iwi me Te M\u0101ori m\u014D ng\u0101 take pupuri i Te Reo me te w\u0101hi m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori i roto i ng\u0101 p\u0101nui me ng\u0101 p\u0101rongo ki te iwi wh\u0101nui. Ko ng\u0101 whiti 7A me whiti 7B, ka whakatakoto i ng\u0101 rautaki e rua ka haere i raro i te pire. Ka whai \u0113nei rautaki i te ia o t\u0113nei pire e mea ai: \u0113hara i te mea ko te tiaki me te whakatairaka i Te Reo M\u0101ori te kawenga a Te Karauna anake, he kawenga r\u0101nei a Te Iwi M\u0101ori anake, he kaupapa mahitahi. Ka whakatakoto e ng\u0101 rautaki e rua ng\u0101 wh\u0101inga, ng\u0101 kaupapa here me ng\u0101 take huhua kei mua i Te Karauna me Te M\u0101t\u0101wai m\u014D Te Reo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EKa t\u016B tonu te whiti 7C ki te whakarerek\u0113 i te pire nei. Ko t\u0113nei te pire tuarua kei roto katoa i Te Reo M\u0101ori me te reo Ingarihi. Hoi, ko t\u0113nei te pire tuatahi ka mana Te Reo M\u0101ori ki runga ake i te reo Ingarihi ki te tohu i te tikaka o te k\u014Drero kei roto. Ko te t\u016Bmanako e kore rawa t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huataka e pai mai kia noho pai rawa atu i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i ng\u0101 reo e rua. K\u012Bhai e taupatupatu. Hoi, ki te p\u0101 m\u0101 t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huataka ki mua i ng\u0101 k\u014Dti ka noho ki Te Reo M\u0101ori te taha o te t\u016Bnga ka aronganuitia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EKo te nui noa atu o w\u0101hanga 1 e whakam\u0101rama me t\u0113tahi k\u014Drero wh\u0101nui m\u014D te ture. Ka takoto te w\u0101hanga 1 o te pire, te w\u0101hi nui ki te mahitahi o Te Karauna me Te M\u0101ori m\u0101 roto i Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. Ka aronui te pire i te mana o te M\u0101ori ki te aroaro o Te K\u0101wanataka me ng\u0101 iwi o Niu T\u012Breni ka noho hei papa m\u014D toenga o te pire. N\u014D reira, e Te Kaiwhakahaere, e mihi atu ki a koutou katoa, huri noa i Te Whare nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou e mihi atu ki a koutou katoa, kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Chair. To everyone throughout the Chamber, greetings to you all. It is important that I acknowledge our Father in Heaven. He is the beginning and ending for all of us, and so I thank  the Provider for everything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI pay my respects to the esteemed Reverend Canon William George Ehau of the South Island. And so, sir, farewell and depart to the domain of the spirits. Remain there, sleep, rest in peace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EMr Chair, thank you for the opportunity to speak on Part 1 of this bill. I will briefly work through clauses 3 to 10 that make up this part. Firstly, I wish to talk about the scope and purpose of this bill. And that is to emphasise the status of the M\u0101ori language as the indigenous language of New Zealand, as a taonga of iwi and M\u0101ori, as a language valued by the nation, and as the official language of New Zealand. It is to that very important purpose that the next three clauses give effect. One element of clause 4 is an amendment added by the M\u0101ori Affairs Committe to clarify that declaring iwi and M\u0101ori as the guardians of the M\u0101ori language does not limit or somehow reduce the responsibilities of the Crown. While this bill gives more of the responsibilities of guardianship of the language to iwi, it does not absolve the Crown of its responsibilities, and the addition of clause 4(3) ensures that it does not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThe Minister for M\u0101ori Development\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 164 introduces a new clause here, clause 5A. This clause is an acknowledgment clause, similar in vein to the acknowledgments contained in Treaty settlement bills. It acknowledges the past wrongs of the Crown in failing to protect and promote the M\u0101ori language, and its commitment to work in partnership with iwi and M\u0101ori to protect the language in the future. This is a very important clause and one which I am very glad to see included in the bill. The bill is about the future, and takes the M\u0101ori language in the state it is now and charts a way of moving forward with the strengthening of the language. But it is important that the bill begins by acknowledging past injustices and acknowledging that in the past the Crown has got it wrong. With this clause added to the bill, we can move into the principles that will guide the bill and the provisions that will provide the practical means to support and revitalise the M\u0101ori language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EClause 6 is largely a continuation of the right to speak M\u0101ori in legal proceedings that was already affirmed under the M\u0101ori Language Act 1987. Clause 6A sets out the principles that will guide the interpretation of this Act and the development of M\u0101ori language strategies under it. I have already touched on the importance of the Crown continuing to have a responsibility to promote and support the M\u0101ori language in future. These responsibilities are further expanded on by the principles clause. There is one phrase that is particularly important, and that is \u201Cactive partnership\u201D. The Crown is to be an active partner with iwi and M\u0101ori. When this bill is passed, Te M\u0101t\u0101wai will be established. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EHowever, the Crown\u2019s work continues; it does not end there. Both sides must work on to promote the language. Clause 7 gives some guiding principles for departments of State. These include the need to consult with iwi and M\u0101ori on matters related to language retention, and the need to use the M\u0101ori language in the promotion of Government services and information to the public. The next two clauses, 7A and 7B, set out the two parallel strategies that will be developed under this bill. These dual strategies once again highlight the thread running through this bill: that promotion, protection, and revitalisation of the M\u0101ori language is not only a Crown responsibility or the responsibility of the iwi and M\u0101ori; it is a shared responsibility. The two strategies will set out the objectives, policies, and related matters for the Crown and Te M\u0101t\u0101wai respectively in relation to the language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EClause 7C highlights the ground-breaking nature of this bill. This is the second bill to contain the full text in both M\u0101ori and English, but it is the first bill where the M\u0101ori text will take precedence should a conflict in the meaning between the two versions ever arise. We hope that situation never arises, and we have a robust translation that is clear and not prone to differences of interpretation. However, if that situation ever does arise before the court, it is appropriate that, in this bill, the M\u0101ori language version takes precedence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThe rest of Part 1 is administrative, and includes an outline of the Act. Part 1 of the bill sets out the importance of cooperation between the Crown and M\u0101ori, through Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. It affirms the status of M\u0101ori in New Zealand Government and society, and sets the stage for the remaining parts of the bill. Therefore, Mr Chair, I acknowledge you and everyone in this Chamber; my greetings and salutations to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb0383b497c84deaa8172e3a67a5e759\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb0383b497c84deaa8172e3a67a5e759\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau katoa. Me whai i te wairua o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kua puta i te p\u014D nei, kia kuhu pai au ki t\u0113nei w\u0101nanga e p\u0101 ana ki t\u014D t\u0101tau nei Reo. Me te m\u014Dhio an\u014D, \u0113hara ko Te Reo anake, ko Te Reo me \u014Dna tikanga. Koin\u0101 te wairua i whakaarohia e t\u0101 m\u0101tau komiti whiriwhiri i te w\u0101 e \u0101ta titiro ki t\u0113nei pire. N\u014D reira, e Te Minita, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Ko au t\u0113tehi, e whakaaro ake t\u0113n\u0101 pea me waihotia te pire tuatahi m\u0101u an\u014D e hanga i t\u014Dku ake pire. \u0112ngari, i \u016B koe ki t\u0113r\u0101 tino hiahia kia haere tonu te pire o t\u014D rangatira, a Pita. Ahakoa ka \u0101hua piki, heke t\u0113r\u0101 huarahi, kua puta, kua puta t\u0113nei pire. N\u014D reira ka tika me mihi atu ki t\u014D R\u014Dp\u016B Tohutohu Reo M\u0101ori, ki a r\u0101tau katoa e \u0101ta whiriwhiri, e \u0101ta whakaarohia ki ng\u0101 \u0101wangawanga, ng\u0101 nawe o ng\u0101 kaipetihana i haria mai \u014D r\u0101tau nei whakaaro i mua i te aroaro o te komiti whiriwhiri. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koe t\u0113n\u0101 koutou: R\u0101winia Higgins, ko ia te tiamana, ki a Ruakere Hond, T\u0101kuta Wharehuia Milroy, Charisma Rangipunga, Charlie Te Pana. R\u0101tau katoa te mahi nunui, me k\u012B, hei kawea i ng\u0101 hiahia o Te Minita me ng\u0101 whakaaro o Te Iwi M\u0101ori kia t\u0101piri \u0113r\u0101, an\u0101, kua kite mai ng\u0101 hua i roto i te pire kei mua i a t\u0101tau i t\u0113nei p\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EMe te whakaaro an\u014D, he iti t\u0113nei w\u0101hanga. Ka tika \u014Du whakaaro me \u0101 m\u0101tau nei whakaaro o te komiti kia noho matua Te Reo M\u0101ori i te reo P\u0101keh\u0101. E p\u0101tai ana m\u0101tau m\u0113n\u0101, ka whakam\u0101tau t\u0113nei pire i Te K\u014Dti, ka aha? Ka aha? Ko te whakautu o \u014D \u0101piha, ko Te Reo M\u0101ori hei noho matua i roto i Te K\u014Dti M\u0101ori, kei te pai t\u0113r\u0101! N\u014D reira ko t\u0113nei \u012Bngoa o te pire, Te Pire m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori / M\u0101ori Language Bill. Ki ahau nei e tino whakaae ana kia noho matua te \u012Bngoa M\u0101ori m\u014D te taitara o t\u0113nei pire. E rua ng\u0101 w\u0101hanga m\u014D te Part 1AA. Ko t\u0113tehi m\u014D te taitara, an\u0101, kua whakaputa aku whakaaro m\u014D t\u0113r\u0101; ko t\u0113tehi m\u014D te t\u012Bmatanga o te pire nei. Ka pai ka mutu t\u0113nei w\u0101hanga m\u014D te taupatupatu o te pire, ka \u0101hei kia whakaturengia te katoa o te pire \u0113ngari.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ETe \u0101huatanga m\u014D Te P\u016Btahi P\u0101oho, e tino whakaae me whakakorengia t\u0113r\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B, e tino whakaae t\u0113r\u0101. Ka noho tonu t\u0113n\u0101 w\u0101taka kia whakakorengia r\u0101tau, 30 Maehe \u0101 t\u0113r\u0101 tau, ka whakakorengia Te P\u016Btahi P\u0101oho, ka pai t\u0113r\u0101. Ka mahara au ki ng\u0101 w\u0101 \u014D mua, ka \u0101ta whakaaro ake ki t\u0113r\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B ka whakaaro ake, t\u0113n\u0101 pea ka tae ki te w\u0101 ki te whakakorengia \u0101 r\u0101tau nei mahi, n\u014D reira tautoko t\u0113r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EHe paku te w\u0101hanga ki te whakaputa \u0113tehi o ng\u0101 whakaaro o t\u014D m\u0101tau nei komiti, e p\u0101 ana ki ng\u0101 pou o t\u0113nei pire. Ki \u014D m\u0101tau nei whakaaro, pai k\u0113 kia t\u016B Te Rautaki Reo M\u0101ori me Te Rautaki o Te Karauna, te maihi o Te Karauna me te maihi M\u0101ori. \u0112ngari ko te tino mahi, ka p\u0113whea r\u0101 hei tuitui \u0113r\u0101 rautaki kia whakaora ai. T\u0113n\u0101 pea m\u0101u hei whakautu \u014Du whakaaro kia whakam\u0101rama pai i \u0113r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ETuarua, e p\u0101 ana ki te whakap\u0101h\u0101 a Te Karauna. Kua puta t\u0113nei kaupapa ki mua i t\u014D m\u0101tau nei whakaaro. I aua w\u0101, n\u014Dku te p\u0101tai, in\u0101 ka whakaae katoa t\u0101tau\u2014ng\u0101 mema katoa o te komiti\u2014kia noho t\u0113tehi whakap\u0101h\u0101 i roto i te pire, m\u0101m\u0101 noa iho ki te tuhia. \u0112ngari ki waenganui i \u014D m\u0101tau nei whiriwhiri, \u014D m\u0101tau nei whakaaro, k\u0101re i noho pai t\u0113r\u0101 whakaaro o ng\u0101 mema katoa. Koin\u0101 te take, e Te Minita, ka haria mai t\u0113r\u0101 ki mua i te aroaro, me k\u012B, o ng\u0101 p\u0101ti katoa kia kite r\u0101tau, m\u0113n\u0101 e hiahia ana Te Karauna, ahakoa te aha, ki te. Mehemea e whakaae katoa \u0101 t\u0101tau p\u0101ti, kia kuhu t\u0113tehi whakap\u0101ha atu i roto i t\u0113nei pire, he mea pai: te h\u0101ngai whakapapa, ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga o ng\u0101 kura \u014D-mua, ng\u0101 native schools, me ng\u0101 kaupapa \u014D-mua o Te Karauna hei patua \u0101 t\u0101tau nei Reo i roto i aua w\u0101. Ka hoki ng\u0101 mahara ki \u0113tehi o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i puta mai i te k\u0101inga, ng\u0101 whakaaro o \u0101ku aunties me \u0101ku uncles, i te w\u0101 i haere r\u0101tau ki te kura. Kei te ora tonu aua maharatanga, me k\u012B, ng\u0101 toimaha o aua w\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EKoin\u0101 te take i whakaaro au ka tika, he pire h\u014Du t\u0113nei, he pire h\u014Du, he w\u0101hanga h\u014Du ki te anga whakamua \u0113ngari, me pupuru t\u0101tau ki ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga \u014D-mua, kia kaua e wareware ki \u0113r\u0101 w\u0101, ng\u0101 w\u0101 toimaha, ng\u0101 w\u0101 toimaha o w\u0101 t\u0101tau nei m\u0101tua t\u016Bpuna kia kawea t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo, kia ora ai ki waenganui i te wh\u0101nau, ahakoa ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga ki ng\u0101 kura. I roto i ng\u0101 hiahia kei te ora tonu, ahakoa paku, kei te ora tonu Te Reo kei waenganui i \u014D t\u0101tau nei marae, ar\u0101, \u014D t\u0101tau nei wh\u0101nau. Kua m\u014Dhio pai koe ki taku Reo. I roto i taku wh\u0101nau, ka hoki ng\u0101 mahara ki ng\u0101 kaum\u0101tua me \u014D r\u0101tau tohutohu mai ki a au. Ko te mea nunui kia whakaaro M\u0101ori koe, kia pai te wairua o te k\u014Drero, \u0101 te w\u0101 ka taea te taka pai, te hanga pai o k\u014Drero ki \u014Du whakaaro. And t\u0113n\u0101 pea i \u0113nei w\u0101, kei te \u016B tonu au ki a r\u0101tau nei poipoi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, e Te Minita, ka nui te mihi atu i t\u0113nei w\u0101hanga o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero. Me te mihi atu ki t\u014D t\u0101tau nei tiamana a Nuk. Tangata tino pai ki te whakahaere i ng\u0101 p\u0101tai toimaha, ng\u0101 p\u0101tai katoa o ng\u0101 mema. I w\u0101w\u0101hi ia i ng\u0101 w\u0101hanga, me k\u012B, kia ruku t\u0101tau ki \u014D t\u0101tau nei ake whakaaro e p\u0101 ana ki ng\u0101 kaupapa katoa m\u014D t\u0113nei pire, ar\u0101, m\u014D ng\u0101 pire katoa i tae mai ki t\u0101 m\u0101tau nei komiti. Ar\u0101, \u0101hua whakaaro au i \u0113tehi w\u0101 ki \u014D \u0101piha. He mea uaua kia kawea \u0101 r\u0101tau nei k\u014Drero ki mua i te aroaro o te komiti me ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga e p\u0101 ana ki t\u014D r\u014Dp\u016B tohutohu. He mea uaua t\u0113r\u0101 w\u0101hanga n\u014D reira \u0101 te w\u0101 ka whakaarohia m\u0113n\u0101 he w\u0101hanga an\u014D ki te whakatikatika i ng\u0101 mahi p\u0113nei. \u0112ngari, \u0113hara t\u0113nei hei tohutohu i a koe, e Te Minita, \u0113ngari, ka whakam\u0101rama pai i ng\u0101 whakaritenga kei waenganui i t\u014D m\u0101tau nei komiti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EKo te mea whakamutunga m\u014D ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga e p\u0101 ana ki t\u014D t\u0101tau nei Reo M\u0101ori hei noho matua. I p\u0101tai m\u0101tau, m\u0113n\u0101 ka taea te tangata ki te wero atu, ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei pire i Te K\u014Dti, karekau he Tiati; atu i ng\u0101 k\u014Dti whenua M\u0101ori, he tiati, atu atu i te Justice Williams, he tiati hei tino whakaw\u0101 i ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga o te pire nei. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 pea he wero ki a t\u0101tau katoa kia whakapiki ake ng\u0101 mea M\u0101ori i roto i ng\u0101 k\u014Dti teitei. Kia ora t\u0101tau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[Greetings. Allow me to follow the tenor of this discussion pertaining to our language. And, lest we forget, it is not just the language but the language in its cultural context. This was the spirit that carried the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee in its careful deliberations on this legislation. Salutations, Minister Flavell. I was one of those who considered that you should craft your own bill from its beginnings. However, you maintained consistency with your predecessor, Pita, and despite the travails of this path, you have succeeded; the bill is soon to become a reality. I applaud the work of your M\u0101ori Language Advisory Group for its careful work in addressing the concerns of petitioners who came before the select committee. Salutations to you all: R\u0101whinia Higgins is the chairperson, and the membership comprises Ruakere Hond, Dr Wharehuia Milroy, Charisma Rangipunga, and Charlie Te Pana. Congratulations on this great piece of work, maintaining consistency with the aims set forth by the Minister for M\u0101ori Development while giving credence to the views of the M\u0101ori people, and we see the fruits of that effort in this bill before us this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAnd this is but the beginning. You are correct, and we of the select committee concur, that the M\u0101ori language has primacy over the English language in this piece of legislation. We asked what would happen if this legislation was taken before the courts. The response of your officials was that the M\u0101ori language version would retain primacy within M\u0101ori court settings \u201Cand that is a good thing\u201D, hence the title of this bill, Te Pire m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori / M\u0101ori Language Bill. I fully support the primacy of the M\u0101ori language in the title of this bill. There are two clauses in Part 1AA. One clause concerns the title, and I have expressed my views on that; another clause concerns the commencement of the bill. It is good that on the completion of our debate we can enact the bill in its entirety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAs for this group Te P\u016Btahi P\u0101oho, I am strongly of the view that it should be done away with. I agree with the deadline given for its disestablishment, 30 March next year. That is a good thing. When I think of that group and its past work, the time has come to disestablish it, and I support that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ELet me focus on the discussions of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee regarding the main pillars of this bill. We agree with the dual strategies approach, a M\u0101ori strategy and a Crown strategy, but the challenge is to mesh the two strategies to give effect to the revitalisation of the language. We would appreciate a steer from you, Minister, as to how you see this working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ESecondly, the apology by the Crown. This was discussed by the select committee. I asked that the select committee unanimously agree that an apology be included in the bill. It is an easy thing to write into the bill. However, the select committee could not reach unanimity on this matter. That is why, Minister, we have brought the matter to the Committee of the whole House for all the parties to glean the wishes of the Crown either way. It would be a good thing if all parties would agree to include an apology in the bill: set out the history, the original school system, native schools, and the past policies of the Crown to suppress us. I recall the stories I heard at home, the stories from my uncles and aunties about their experiences attending school. Their memories are still vivid of those times, the negative experiences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThat is why I consider this bill a fresh starting point, a new beginning, a path forward while holding on to the memories of those hard times, the experiences of our elders who strove to retain the language within the wh\u0101nau, despite the negative experiences of the school system. Through their efforts the language still survives, albeit only just, on our marae and within our wh\u0101nau. You are well acquainted with my level of language proficiency. In my own wh\u0101nau, I recall the elders who offered me guidance. The main thing they taught me was to think as a M\u0101ori, to speak only good, and in time your words will truly express your thoughts. Unto this day I still cleave unto those teachings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ESo congratulations, Minister. And let me thank our chairperson, Nuk. He is accomplished in allowing free discourse by members of the select committee on all matters. He broke matters down to their constituent parts; this allowed free and frank debate on all aspects of this bill, indeed all bills that come before the select committee. I also considered the role of your officials. It is a difficult task for the officials to balance their responsibilities to the select committee and their responsibiilties to your expert advisory panel. That was an onerous part of their work, and perhaps in the future we can look to mitigate that tension. This is not a critique of you, Minister; rather, it is the view of the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe concluding matter pertains to the status of the M\u0101ori language. We asked if challenges could be made to this bill in court without an appropriate judge\u2014besides the M\u0101ori land court judges, besides Justice Joe Williams\u2014a judge able to adjudicate on aspects of this bill. Perhaps this is a challenge to increase the numbers of M\u0101ori-speaking judges in the system. Thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u002224f8a1f4b08f414085e7b75051834a91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224f8a1f4b08f414085e7b75051834a91\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, e Te Minita, huri noa i te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. E t\u016B ana ahau, he paku k\u014Drero t\u0101ku, e p\u0101 ana ki te t\u012Bmatanga o t\u0113nei pire. \u0100, rawe ki te whakarongo atu ki t\u0113nei k\u014Drero i roto i Te Reo M\u0101ori. Ko t\u0113r\u0101 te tino kaupapa o taku Reo n\u014D reira, ahakoa te wero, ahakoa te wiriwiri, \u0101, me waiho \u0113nei pepa ki te taha, m\u014D t\u0113nei paku k\u014Drero. I rongo au i \u014D k\u014Drero Nanaia Mahuta, me M\u0101ori te whakaaro, \u0101, t\u0113r\u0101 pea ka whai pea Te Reo. N\u014D reira, me \u012Bnoi ki ng\u0101 atua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EHe paku k\u014Drero t\u0101ku, ko t\u0113tahi atu take taonga o \u0113nei momo ture kei mua i Te Whare. He taonga t\u0113nei w\u0101nanga m\u014D r\u0101tau e whakarongo atu, m\u014D r\u0101tau e titiro mai ki Te Whare nei e k\u014Drero ana i Te Reo m\u014D te w\u0101 katoa, n\u0113 r\u0101? Oh, \u0101e! Ko t\u0113r\u0101 te kaupapa ake o \u0113nei momo o t\u0113nei ture Te Pire m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori. N\u014D reira, ka t\u016B au ki te tautoko i a m\u0101tau e k\u014Drero ana e tautoko ana i t\u0113nei pire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI hoki \u014D m\u0101tau mahara ki ng\u0101 tohunga katoa kua wehe ki te p\u014D, kua haere me \u014D m\u0101tau mahi rangatira ki te whawhai m\u014D t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo, m\u014D te ao katoa, m\u014D Aotearoa katoa \u0113hara m\u014D Te M\u0101ori anake. \u0100, n\u014D reira i a au e noho ana, e rongo ana i t\u014D m\u0101tau k\u014Drero, \u0101, ka hoki aku mahara ki a r\u0101tau. \u0100, atu i t\u0113r\u0101 hoki aku whakaaro ki a r\u0101tau e whakarongo ana i t\u0113nei w\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EKo \u0113nei momo w\u0101hanga o Te Whare nei te w\u0101hi whakatinana i \u014D r\u0101tau moemoe\u0101 o \u014D m\u0101tau t\u016Bpuna katoa, n\u0113! Ko t\u0113nei te w\u0101hanga whakatinana ai i t\u0113r\u0101 moemoe\u0101. He nui taku h\u014Dnore ki te t\u016B i te mea, i k\u012B mai t\u014Dku p\u0101p\u0101\u2014i t\u0113r\u0101 atu taha o te ao i t\u0113nei w\u0101\u2014i k\u012B mai ia: \u201CAu\u0113! Hoki aku mahara k\u014Dtiro i te w\u0101 i hara mai ahau ki ng\u0101 poutama o Te Whare P\u0101remata ki te whawhai m\u014D Te Reo. Au\u0113; 1972 pea.\u201D I k\u012B mai ki a au: \u201CAu\u0113, he tino moemoe\u0101 te tirohanga ki a koe te k\u014Dtiro, e t\u016B ana ki roto i Te Whare! K\u0101re e h\u012Bkoi whakah\u0113 ana ki waho i Te Whare P\u0101remata. E t\u016B ana koe ki roto i Te Whare! E k\u014Drero ana i roto i Te Reo i ng\u0101 w\u0101 katoa!\u201D. Ki a ia, he tino taonga te tiro atu i t\u0113r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u0100, n\u014D reira he paku k\u014Drero t\u0101ku m\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 taonga o t\u0113nei momo pire kei mua i a m\u0101tau; he w\u0101nanga ki te whakatinana i \u014D r\u0101tau moemoe\u0101 o \u014D m\u0101tau t\u016Bpuna katoa. \u0100, n\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Minister Flavell, and to all throughout the Chamber, greetings, everyone. I stand to take a short call and to talk briefly about the beginnings of this bill. It is tremendous to hear these proceedings being carried on in the M\u0101ori language. That is also why I am speaking in M\u0101ori. So, despite the challenge and the apprehension, I will leave these papers aside momentarily for this brief statement. I heard the comment from you, Nanaia Mahuta, that if one thinks in M\u0101ori, the language will perhaps follow suit. Therefore, I should ask the gods for help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI have only a brief statement. Another valuable benefit of this type of legislation before the Committee is the actual debate and discussion that is heard and seen being carried entirely in the M\u0101ori language, is it not? Absolutely! This is the real effect of legislation like the M\u0101ori Language Bill. Therefore, I also stand to support those of us contributing in support of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWe also recall the many cultural experts who have passed on, having laid the way for our language struggle\u2014not just for M\u0101ori, but for all of New Zealand and the wider world. So as I sit here and listen to our debate I am reminded of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EIn addition, I am also conscious of all the people currently listening at this time. It is during these sittings in the Committee when the dreams and aspirations of our ancestors can be given substance, is it not? This is where those aspirations can be embodied; this is the place. It is indeed an honour to stand here, as my own father reminded me, currently from the other side of the world, when he said: \u201CAmazing! I remember, daughter, coming to the steps of Parliament to fight for the language. Indeed it was about 1972.\u201D He told me: \u201CIt is a dream to see you, my daughter, a representative in the House. Without protest or without marching out the front of Parliament. You are representing from inside the House! And speaking in M\u0101ori language all the time!\u201D. It is amazing for him to see such a delight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ETherefore, I have taken a short opportunity to express that delight in relation to this type of bill currently before us\u2014indeed, an invaluable debate and discussion on how we can best enable the aspirations of all our ancestors. Therefore, greetings and felicitations to one and all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00228b2aadcda7634a0492eed58dcbe30200\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b2aadcda7634a0492eed58dcbe30200\u0022\u003EHon TE URUROA FLAVELL (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora mai e hoa m\u0101. Kei te m\u014Dhio tonu ahau e hiahia ana koutou ki te t\u016B ki te k\u014Drero \u0113ngari, he mataku n\u014Dku ka kore e whakautu i \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i puta i t\u0113nei p\u014D n\u014D reira, m\u014D te w\u0101 poto, ka rere tika tonu atu ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kua k\u014Drerohia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ETuatahi, i rongo ake i te \u0101huatanga o te k\u014Drero m\u014D te noho \u014Drite kai roto i t\u0113r\u0101 t\u0101piritanga, t\u0101ne, wahine n\u0101 i runga i Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. Ko te mate k\u0113, i roto i te pire, k\u0101re e kore ka k\u014Drerohia \u0101 taihoa ake nei. M\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 rohe, m\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 rohe, t\u014Dna ake tangata kotahi e whakarite. Me p\u0113hea a taea ai te whakariterite i te \u014Dritetanga o te t\u0101ne me te wahine o Te M\u0101t\u0101wai, m\u0113n\u0101 kai t\u0113n\u0101 takiw\u0101, kai t\u0113n\u0101 takiw\u0101, kai t\u0113n\u0101 takiw\u0101 t\u014Dna mana, koir\u0101 pea t\u0113tahi whakautu ki t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero \u0113ngari, kai te rongo ake i te ia o te k\u014Drero, me wh\u0101 w\u0101hi w\u0101 t\u0101tau w\u0101hine i roto i ng\u0101 nekeneke o Te M\u0101t\u0101wai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ETuarua, \u0101, kua rongo ake p\u0113nei m\u014D te \u0101huatanga o te piki haere o te hunga k\u014Drero M\u0101ori, \u0113, kore taea te karo i t\u0113r\u0101 whakaaro, \u0113hara, kai te tika t\u0113r\u0101. Ko te mate k\u0113, me p\u0113hea e taea ai. Ko te kaute o te hunga k\u014Drero M\u0101ori ka puta n\u014D muri mai i te tatauranga matua n\u0101! Ka mutu, ia wh\u0101 tau ka \u0101ta titiro ki t\u0113r\u0101. I t\u0113nei w\u0101, m\u0113n\u0101 ka p\u0101taia te p\u0101tai, t\u0113n\u0101, tokohia ng\u0101 mea e k\u014Drero M\u0101ori ana i te mata o te whenua? Ko te paih\u0113neti k\u0113 te kaute, kaua ko te nui o te tokomaha o te tangata. N\u014D reir\u0101, \u0101, t\u0113r\u0101 pea he raruraru kai reira \u0113ngari, e kore taea te karo i t\u0113r\u0101 hiahia kia whakanui ake, te whakamaha ake i te hunga k\u014Drero M\u0101ori. M\u014D te \u0101huatanga o Te M\u0101t\u0101wai, \u0101e, kua k\u014Drerohia t\u0113r\u0101, ka mutu, waiho t\u0113r\u0101 ki reira m\u014D te roanga ake o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKa hoki ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o te mema o Te Tai Hauauru, ki a koe Adrian, Te Maihi M\u0101ori, Te Maihi Karauna: ko t\u0113hea te mea whai mana? \u0112hara i te mea ko t\u0113tahi \u0113ngari, ko Te R\u016Bnanga Reo te mea ka noho hai korowai m\u014D ng\u0101 mea e rua, Te T\u0101huhu o Te Whare, ko Te R\u016Bnga Reo. Ko te nohotahi o te K\u0101wanatanga Minita me \u0113tahi o Te M\u0101t\u0101wai, ka nohotahi te t\u0113pu kotahi ki reira whakarite aim \u014D te \u0101huatanga o Te Reo i te mata o te whenua. N\u014D reir\u0101 t\u0113r\u0101 t\u0113r\u0101. E tika ana t\u0101u he w\u0101hi t\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101, t\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 \u0113hara i te mea m\u0101 te rautaki t\u014D t\u0101 t\u0101tau Reo e ora ai, k\u0101o! Ko t\u0113nei t\u0101 M\u0101rama e k\u014Drero n\u0101\u2014ko te k\u014Drero i Te Reo, \u0101, m\u0101 reira ka ora t\u014D t\u0101tou Reo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKa hoki r\u0101 an\u014D ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o te mema o \u014Ctautahi, o Ng\u0101i Tahu an\u014D hoki m\u014D te \u0101huatanga o tana k\u014Drero, kore e taea te karo! I whaiwhai haere a ia i r\u0101rangi mahi, ka mutu, ko te painga ake i puta i t\u0113tahi o t\u0101tau, ko te pire nei he mea kua tae mai n\u0101 runga i te \u0101huatanga o te whakarongo ki ng\u0101 mea tuku k\u014Drero ki te komiti o te mata o te whenua, i taku komiti e haere ana i te mata o te whenua. Ka toru, ko koutou ng\u0101 ringa raup\u0101 o Te Whare P\u0101remata, ka wh\u0101, \u0101, ka mutu, o taku r\u014Dp\u016B. N\u014D reira, koinei te whakatinana mai o \u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga katoa, o \u0113r\u0101 whiriwhiringa katoa. Koin\u0101 te painga ake o t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EM\u014D Te P\u016Btahi P\u0101oho, \u0113, waiho t\u0113r\u0101 ki reira. Kua rongo ake i t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero, e kore au e whakah\u0113 i t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero, \u0101, k\u0101 mutu m\u014D te kupu whakap\u0101ha e k\u014Drerohia ake nei, \u0101, kua oti k\u0113 i a au te whakam\u0101rama ake. \u0100, e tika ana t\u0101u, ko ng\u0101 mamae, ko ng\u0101 p\u0113hitanga o t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo, kua whakar\u0101rangihia i roto i ng\u0101 pukapuka h\u012Btori. Kai reira tonu \u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero \u0113ngari, ka rata au ki te k\u014Drero, \u0101e, me whakaae atu ki t\u0113r\u0101 i mahia \u0113ngari, me titiro ki te pae rangi, me titiro whakamua, kia taea ai te k\u012B atu, a, ko te oranga o t\u014D t\u0101tau Reo, kai roto i ng\u0101 tamariki, kai roto i ng\u0101 mokopuna. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EK\u0101ti, hai whakak\u014Dpani i t\u0113nei w\u0101hanga kia taea ai e au te k\u012B, i whakautu au i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero. Ka rata au ki te k\u014Drero o t\u0113r\u0101 o Te K\u0101k\u0101riki, \u201CM\u0101 te k\u014Drero i Te Reo, m\u0101 reira, \u0101, ka hua ake ng\u0101 painga m\u014D te oranga o t\u014D t\u0101tou Reo m\u014D ake nei.\u201D Kia ora t\u0101tau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Thank you, fellow members. I realise you are wanting to speak. However, I am just concerned there may be no opportunity to respond to some of the issues raised this evening; therefore in this short opportunity I will address directly the points raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFirst, the point was made in Supplementary Order Paper 166 regarding the balance of composition of male and female membership of Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. The problem in the bill, however, which will no doubt be mentioned shortly, is that it will be for each region to select their own single representative. How can the proportional balance of male and female members of the Te M\u0101t\u0101wai entity be achieved if it is up to the arbitrary discretion of each region? This is perhaps one response to that issue. However, the point has been made that women should have a role in Te M\u0101t\u0101wai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESecond, the issue of the need to increase numbers of speakers of the M\u0101ori language has been raised, and there is no argument there; that is indeed correct. The problem, however, is how to achieve that. The demographic statistics of M\u0101ori language speakers only appear following the census, which means a 4-yearly review cycle. If the question were to be asked \u201CWhat is the total number of speakers of M\u0101ori today?\u201D, the response would be a percentage rather than an actual number of speakers. Despite being problematic, the goal to increase the number of speakers of the M\u0101ori language is inescapable. As for the nature of Te M\u0101t\u0101wai, this has already been discussed and I will leave it at that for the remainder of this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EReturning to the contribution from the member for Te Tai Hau\u0101uru, to you, Adrian, regarding the M\u0101ori strategy and the Crown strategy: which will take precedence? In short, neither will, although Te R\u016Bnanga Reo forum will be established to support both, and will be the centre ridgepole of the framework. Te R\u016Bnanga Reo is the bringing together of both Government Ministers and members of Te M\u0101t\u0101wai to be seated together at the planning table for M\u0101ori language. That being so, what you have said is correct: everyone has a role to play. Our language will not survive by strategy alone. As M\u0101rama stated, only by speaking the M\u0101ori language will the language survive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EReturning to the contribution from the member for Canterbury and of the region of Ng\u0101i Tahu, what he said cannot be refuted. He adhered to the agenda and, furthermore, one good thing mentioned is that this bill has been brought together as a consequence of listening to advisory group submissions across the country as my expert advisory group undertook its travels, thirdly, all the assistance from the many hands of Parliament, and fourthly, but not least, from my department. Therefore, this is the embodiment of all that effort and deliberation\u2014another direct benefit of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAs for the M\u0101ori Television Electoral College, enough said. The point has been made and I will not belabour it. For the issue of an apology, I have already shared my view. What you have said is correct regarding the pain and the suppression of our language, as has been well documented in history books. Those issues still exist and I do feel, yes, that what transpired should be acknowledged. However, we need to focus on the horizon, looking forward, to be able to say that the survival of our language is in our children and grandchildren.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, and so that I can say I have responded to the issues raised, or at least some of them, I commend the statement by the Green Party spokesperson: \u201COnly by speaking the language will our language survive into the future.\u201D Thank you, everyone.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u00228d4225b61eb048879c8ff6d3579f8f7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d4225b61eb048879c8ff6d3579f8f7f\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, e Te Heamana. E t\u016B ake t\u0113nei m\u014D Te R\u014Dp\u016B Aotearoa Tuatahi, ki te k\u014Drero atu ki ng\u0101 take e p\u0101 ana ki te pire nei. \u0112ngari i mua i te haere tonu o aku k\u014Drero, e tautoko ana au i ng\u0101 mihi i mihingia e Te Minita me \u0113tahi atu o ng\u0101 kaik\u014Drero i t\u016B ake i mua i a au, ki \u0113r\u0101 atu o ng\u0101 hunga i ngaro atu ki te tirohanga kanohi: n\u0101, ko Whai Ngata t\u0113n\u0101, ko Waka Palmer t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 pou o Te H\u0101hi R\u0101tana, \u0101, me t\u0113tahi atu i whaka\u012Bngoatia e t\u014D t\u0101tou hoa mai i \u014Ctautahi. E tika ana kia mihi kau ana ki a r\u0101tau n\u0101 te mea, i roto i t\u0113nei \u0101huatanga e p\u0101 ana ki te mihi atu ki a r\u0101tou, ka puta mai te \u0101taahua o t\u014D t\u0101tou Reo. N\u0101 reira e ng\u0101 mate haere hoki atu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EHoki mai ki a t\u0101tau te hunga ora n\u0101 reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. \u0100, taku m\u014Dhio i t\u0113nei w\u0101hanga i k\u014Drerohia i a t\u0101tou e p\u0101 ana ki te w\u0101hanga tuatahi o te pire nei. N\u0101, i roto i ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga o t\u0113nei w\u0101hanga, kei konei tetahi w\u0101hi e hiahia ana au ki te k\u014Drero atu e p\u0101 ana ki te whakap\u0101ha atu a Te Minita e hiahia nei ia, kia whakauru mai ki roto i te pire nei. Whakaaro ana au, he aha ana te take i waihotia i t\u0113nei w\u0101, i te h\u0101ngaitia o t\u0113nei pire? Ki a au nei, m\u0113n\u0101 e hiahia ana t\u0101tou kia kite mai t\u0113nei t\u016B\u0101huatanga, ko t\u0113n\u0101 te w\u0101 kia tuhi atu i roto te pire nei. \u0112ngari, kia ahatia? M\u0101ku e mea atu ki a t\u0101tou, te take e kite ana t\u0101tou \u0113nei kupu whakap\u0101ha i muri mai i t\u0113tahi k\u014Drero i te w\u0101 e noho ana Te Taraipiunara i roto o Ng\u0101puhi. I rongo t\u0101tou i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero a tetahi o ng\u0101 mema tahito o Te Komiti nei, a Dover Samuels. N\u0101na i mea atu ki Te Taraipiunara, e tika ana kia whakap\u0101ha atu Te Karauna ki a ia, me t\u014Dna tupuranga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u0112ngari, ki a m\u0101tou i roto o Aotearoa Tuatahi, karekau k\u0113 i tino tautoko i t\u0113n\u0101 whakaaro. I aha ai? I te w\u0101 o T\u0101 Apirana Ngata, ko ia me t\u014Dna hoa i taua w\u0101, n\u0101 r\u0101tau i mea atu ki Te Ao M\u0101ori, kia whakakaha ana i a t\u0101tou kia huri atu ki ng\u0101 taonga o Te Ao P\u0101keh\u0101. Kei m\u014Dhio mai w\u0101 t\u0101tou tamariki o taua w\u0101, kia m\u014Dhio mai ki te k\u014Drero P\u0101keh\u0101 me \u0113r\u0101 atu t\u016Bmomo mahi. Pai atu \u0113n\u0101 whakaaro i taua w\u0101. He aha ai? Ko te nuinga o Te Ao M\u0101ori, kotahi an\u014D Te Reo, ko Te Reo M\u0101ori. N\u0101 reira, ki a m\u0101tou i roto o Aotearoa Tuatahi, karekau e tino tika ana, kia mea atu Te Karauna, kia whakap\u0101ha ki a t\u0101tou m\u014D taua momo rangatira o taua w\u0101, o taua w\u0101. Kia ahatia? E tika ana te k\u014Drero a te tuahine a Nanaia: i k\u014Drero tahi t\u0101tou i roto te komiti whakawhiriwhiri m\u014D ng\u0101 take M\u0101ori t\u0113nei kaupapa, i whakaaro an\u014D e m\u0101tou waihotia i t\u0113nei w\u0101, kia tukuna atu ki Te Komiti, kia k\u014Drero. N\u0101 reira, w\u0113n\u0101 te take e k\u014Drero ai t\u0101tou i t\u0113n\u0101 t\u016Bmomo \u0101huatanga i t\u0113nei w\u0101. N\u0101 reira, w\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakaaro e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113n\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI rongo m\u0101tou i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki te r\u014Dp\u016B Te M\u0101t\u0101wai, i te k\u014Drero mutunga i te w\u0101 i puta mai t\u0113nei pire i roto Te Whare nei, i mea atu ki Te Minita i taua w\u0101, karekau m\u0101tou e whakaaro e kore tika ana kia whakar\u0101rangi ng\u0101 \u012Bngoa m\u014D t\u0113n\u0101 rohe, m\u014D t\u0113n\u0101 rohe, korekau e tika ana kia waihotia te tini o ng\u0101 iwi i roto i ng\u0101 w\u0101hanga e rima, e toru. M\u014Dhio ana koe, e Te Minita.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI t\u0113r\u0101 atu wiki i haere an\u014D au ki tetahi hui i roto Te Tai Tokerau ki te k\u014Drero atu i t\u0113nei take, me p\u0113hea ai t\u0101tou e tohungia i t\u0113tahi kaik\u014Drero m\u014D te rohe o Te Tai Tokerau, i puta mai te k\u014Drero o taua hui kia mukua ng\u0101 \u012Bngoa iwi, waihotia, ko Te Rohe o Te Tai Tokerau. Waihotia ki a r\u0101tou i tohungia ko wai te kaik\u014Drero, t\u0113hea ng\u0101 iwi i tae atu ki reira n\u0101 te mea, karekau k\u0113 i r\u0101rangitia ng\u0101 iwi, ng\u0101 hap\u016B katoa. M\u0113n\u0101 karekau e kite atu t\u014D hap\u016B i ng\u0101 r\u0101rangi \u012Bngoa, t\u0113n\u0101 pea kua mahue koe ki te taha! Koin\u0101 te whakaaro o taua hui. N\u0101 reira, koin\u0101 te take i whakaaro an\u014D r\u0101tou t\u0113n\u0101 pea kia muku atu aua \u012Bngoa. Waihotia ki te hui kia tau atu t\u014D r\u0101tou hiahia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EN\u0101 reira, e Te Minita, ahakoa ng\u0101 piki, ng\u0101 heke e p\u0101 ana ki te urunga mai o t\u0113nei pire, kei te mihi tonu ki a koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3ebbf2959a044ae87ae5ef340060cc7\u0022\u003EHon Te Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Kei te tautoko koe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d303eff17b604bbdb753875183184063\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE\u003C/span\u003E: K\u0101o! K\u0101o! N\u0101 te mea, ko te tini o ng\u0101 mea i roto, k\u0101re m\u0101tou i tino tautoko. Me p\u0113n\u0101 i w\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B i tautoko i a koe i mua r\u0101 n\u0101 te mea, i puta mai ki a au tetahi reta mai i Te R\u014Dp\u016B Ng\u0101 Kaiwhakap\u016Bmau i Te Reo, n\u0101, m\u014Dhio ana koe e Te Minita, kei roto i a r\u0101tou \u0113tahi \u0101wangawanga. N\u0101 reira, whakaaro an\u014D m\u0101tou i roto o Aotearoa Tuatahi t\u0113n\u0101 pea i takahingia i a r\u0101tou te ara tika ki te hakah\u0113ngia \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i roto i te pire. \u0112ngari i te mutunga o te r\u0101, e Te Minita, ng\u0101 mihi hoki ki a koe. He mea tino rerek\u0113 t\u0113nei pire ki t\u0113n\u0101 o t\u014D hoa a Pita i te w\u0101 urunga mai o t\u0113nei pire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u0112ngari taku k\u014Drero whakamutunga, kata ana au ki a au n\u0101 te mea, e aha ana te kaupapa o t\u0113nei pire? Kia whakakaha ana tangata ki te whakamatatau i t\u014D t\u0101tou Reo Rangatira? He aha ana te take e kata ana au? M\u014D t\u0113nei e t\u016B ana, korekau i tino matatau ki t\u014D t\u0101tou Reo, \u0113ngari kei konei au ki te whakamana, hakah\u0113 hoki te \u0101huatanga o te pire nei. N\u0101 reira, kia ahatia? \u0112ngari, ko te mea nui kua puta mai te pire nei, kei te rongo i a t\u0101tou, i te motu hoki i t\u014D t\u0101tou Reo Rangatira i te p\u014D nei. N\u0101 reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora mai an\u014D t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Chairman. I stand on behalf of New Zealand First to address matters relating to this bill. Before going on, I add my condolences to those of the Minister for M\u0101ori Development and others who spoke before me for those who are lost from sight: Whai Ngata; Waka Palmer, a pillar of the R\u0101tana faith; and one other mentioned by our colleague from Christchurch. It is fitting because in according tributes to them in this situation the beauty of our language comes to the fore. So to you, the dead, depart, farewell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EAnd so I come back to us, the living; acknowledgments, greetings, and salutations to you collectively. My understanding is that the section we are addressing relates to the first part of the bill. Featuring in this part of the bill is an aspect that focuses on the apology the Minister proposes to include in this bill. I think to myself, why leave it until until now, and not when the bill was drafted? My view is that if we wanted to see this situation, that was the time to do it. Why now? My conjecture to us is that we are seeing a reference to an apology following a statement made at a hearing of the Waitangi Tribunal amongst the Ng\u0101puhi people. We heard the statements made by a former member of this Committee, Dover Samuels. He said to the tribunal that it is only right that the Crown apologise to him and those of his generation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EBut we of New Zealand First do not actually support that view. And why not? In the time of Sir Apirana Ngata, he and an associate exhorted M\u0101ori to equip themselves for the material world of the P\u0101keh\u0101. As part of the preparation, the children of the time had to learn to speak English, along with other skills. That was appropriate for those times because the majority of M\u0101ori had but one language, the M\u0101ori language. In the light of that, we of New Zealand First do not think it right to call on the Crown to apologise for the actions of a great leader of the time. So what now? What fellow colleague Nanaia asserted is correct: we, the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee members, considered this matter and decided to refer it the Committee for consideration. That is the reason we are addressing that situation at this point in time. So that is our view on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EWe heard the comments about the Te M\u0101t\u0101wai group, and at the time of my last address when this bill was in the House, I said to the Minister that we opposed a hap\u016B register. It is not right that so many tribes be crammed into five, four, or even three regions. I know this and so do you, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003ELast week I also attended a meeting in the far north to speak on this matter about selecting a representative for the far north. The outcome was to delete the tribal names and and leave it as the far north region, and for the tribes in attendance at that meeting to select a representative for the region, as not all subtribes and tribes attended that meeting. If you don\u2019t see your subtribe on the register, then it might have been overlooked. That was the thinking of that meeting; that was the reasoning to dispense with those names. Leave it for that meeting to satisfy their wishes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003ESo, Minister, despite the trials and tribulations in introducing this bill, we continue to commend you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a03fff1bab44e36a6b46633ce292ebe\u0022\u003EHon Te Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Are you saying you support it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afe4052b40064133a8ef1672460a2726\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE\u003C/span\u003E: No! Not at all, because there are many parts in it that we do not support, like some groups that supported you in the past, because I received a letter from Ng\u0101 Kaiwhakap\u016Bmau i Te Reo that you are aware of, Minister, expressing some concern of theirs. We of New Zealand First have a perception that they may have traversed a righteous path to oppose some statements in the bill. But at the end of the day we acknowledge your efforts, Minister. The bill has undergone many changes since the one your predecessor, Pita, introduced into the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I laugh to myself and say: what is the purpose of the bill? To make people proficient in our chiefly language? But why am I amused? For this one is standing here and, although not very proficient in our language, giving effect to it and opposing its function. So what can be done about it? But the main thing is that this bill has emerged, and we and the nation are hearing our chiefly language tonight. So acknowledgments and congratulations once again to you, and to us collectively, thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc68f14d35e848f09086e2ef8193a660\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc68f14d35e848f09086e2ef8193a660\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101. \u0100, i ahau e whakarongo ana ki Te Minita e k\u014Drero ana m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori, n\u0101na te k\u012B: \u201CKo Te Reo M\u0101ori te matapihi ki Te Ao M\u0101ori.\u201D E tika taua korero. \u0100, i roto i t\u0113nei w\u0101hanga o te pire, i kite nei i te k\u014Drero a Te Karauna e k\u012B nei: \u201CE h\u0113, e h\u0113 ana m\u0101tau!\u201D I ng\u0101 tau kua hipa atu, \u0101e, whakaae ana m\u0101tou katoa ki t\u0113nei, t\u0101tou katoa ki t\u0113nei. I te k\u0101inga t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 porowhiti Paora P\u014Dtangaroa i k\u012B nei, i a ia i runga i tana\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E[Mr Chairman, as I was listening to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development talking about the M\u0101ori language, he said: \u201CThe M\u0101ori Language is the window to M\u0101oridom.\u201D That statement is correct. And in this part of the bill I saw this comment by the Crown that states: \u201CWe were at fault.\u201D In past years, yes, we all agreed with this. Back home there was a prophet called Paora P\u014Dtangaroa, who said, when he was on his\u2014]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4509987ddb643aab4e1b9eb9680a1cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4509987ddb643aab4e1b9eb9680a1cf\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard)\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise for interrupting the member, but the time has come for me to leave the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the Environment Canterbury (Transitional Governance Arrangements) Bill with amendment, progress on the Te Pire m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori / M\u0101ori Language Bill, and no progress on the Drug and Alcohol Testing of Community-based Offenders, Bailees, and Other Persons Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016040592a7f64089b248fbbab7aace3c5d0ea5000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.58 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"