"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc3d06c3cf7842cc9f6e665fa7d89592\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 10 AUGUST 2016\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220866d8b66c63471f8898aa63513c9d37\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 10 AUGUST 2016\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022030ded779e8341ca9ec9be6658e3e753\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ce9f060ee790499fba967f38a932096c\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022098a5780aaf34b07b7d7258790d21545\u0022\u003EEconomic Programme\u2014Progress\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00224c172a49698c4960a62894bbde292c33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c172a49698c4960a62894bbde292c33\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What progress is the Government making in building a more competitive and productive economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a48eebe9680d4e1bb18d995151a6cfd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a48eebe9680d4e1bb18d995151a6cfd1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Good progress. The Government has four priorities: responsibly managing the Government\u2019s finances, building a more productive economy, delivering Better Public Services, and rebuilding Christchurch. We are making progress on all of these. Two hundred thousand more people are in work now than 3 years ago, and a further 170,000 jobs are expected by 2020. The average wage is forecast to rise to $63,000 a year, and we are on track for moderate growth of 2 to 3 percent over the next 4 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282aff9186ec14522a15e708128d59234\u0022\u003EMark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Given the outlook for continuing growth, what steps is the Government taking to lock in these gains through investment in infrastructure, education, and better social outcomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb3824db4ad47679a6d0a1cfa50046d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As set out in Budget 2016, we are focusing on increasing investment in infrastructure and getting better results for public spending, for instance: a $700 million investment in science, skills, and regional development; a $2.1 billion package for public infrastructure, including the complete rebuild of the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s tax systems; $650 million for social investment to support vulnerable New Zealanders; and in Budget 2016 there was a $2.2 billion health package. It is the results that this spending will achieve, however, that will be beneficial to New Zealand households.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272043d6dfaf14c86961f320f89ad3c8b\u0022\u003EMark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: What are some of the consequences of lower interest rates for households and the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a0d3e96d3c5421d9e0678a4850a1ae0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The track for New Zealand interest rates reflects what is happening with interest rates around the world, and that is that they are reaching all-time lows and, in some countries, negative interest rates for the first time in living memory. That in part is what is driving up asset prices in stock markets, exchange rates, and land and house prices. However, lower interest rates reduce the cost of borrowing, and that means that households have lifted their debt levels, because they can service larger debt at about the same proportion of interest payments in their income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260ed06d8f6734978bf732d63f064826d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just need to inform Mr Seymour that with enthusiasm he used his complete allocation of questions yesterday. Supplementary question\u2014Grant Robertson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213c109df4abd4a29bd172c0dab4195c8\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Happy news, Mr Speaker. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226a5b331925a40d9a715402c21f04dd2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! If the member wishes to seek leave he is entitled to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022503f331f6d8c495b844e32138c3b96dc\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What progress is the Government making towards its target of exports as a percentage of GDP rising from 30 to 40 percent, and if he does not have the exact figure, can he indicate whether it is progress or regress?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff6a1f730a7e41d4be8ee5016ecc8a70\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is making good progress towards its 2025 target. Of course, as that member will be aware, the impact of the Christchurch earthquake and the fact that thousands of New Zealanders are staying home instead of leaving mean that there has been significant commitment of capital and labour resource to domestic growth. As we continue on the back of this success to get the houses built and Christchurch finished, those resources will be available to divert to the export sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205df1a8a8e4d482a8ade420a025df3cd\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Although we cannot always be certain of the quality of the question, the Government would be prepared to give one of its supplementary questions to Mr Seymour so that he might be able to ask his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b62699993974820a7391c6a9add8710\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On that basis I will certainly accept a supplementary question from Mr Seymour, but in the future the arrangement needs to be a little more formal, otherwise it is very difficult for me to keep an accurate score here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291c4ecbc46744956b6e7722ac77e5377\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Government\u2019s fiscal discipline been strong enough to enable tax cuts next year in election year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f71d165f63a54eef8913dd231a449db7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is yet to be seen. What we do know is that fiscal discipline in itself is not sufficient to ensure that New Zealanders get the best results from their public services. We need to actually focus on delivering effective services to people who really need them. What we have found is that the more we do that, the less need there is in the longer run for Government services, and that means more opportunities for lower taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022106c5fac22bb4676b89aad353fed5793\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have been reflecting upon the exchange that has just taken place because my colleague to the left wanted to ask a supplementary question. Although I accept the principle that has been established for a long time of primary questions being allocated on a proportionate basis around the House, I do wonder whether it is time for you to give fresh consideration to the allocation of supplementary questions. My colleague to my left is extremely enthusiastic. I am not sure that he should be punished for his enthusiasm, and I wonder whether it is time to take a more flexible approach to the granting of supplementary questions based on a member\u2019s interests, rather than the size of the party they represent. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271910852bcc4409c83987fdc1057c9c1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I will hear from Chris Hipkins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c33e0c8777449788838af62ca8d07a8\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Ultimately, the Business Committee makes an indicative allocation of supplementary questions but the discretion, of course, always rests with the Speaker in making a final decision on how supplementary questions should be allocated. Speakers have traditionally allocated supplementary questions on the basis of proportionality in the House, which is what the indicative allocation of supplementary questions is based upon. If members were to suggest that supplementary questions be allocated based on quality, I would suggest that we get a lot more supplementary questions over on this side of the House than on that side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243a50b1cbe1a45a79df851b808dbff5a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not\u2014I will hear from Ron Mark. [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b685b87cd4a64752b527625c320e2322\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I rise to lend some support to the views of the very experienced Hon Peter Dunne, who stands as one of the longest-serving Ministers in New Zealand\u2019s Parliament. I think that\u2014if I could just add something to maybe take into account what Chris Hipkins from Labour has said\u2014if you could come up with a formula that lends credence to the level of interest a particular party has in a particular issue, plus balance it by its numbers in the House, we would, I think, wholeheartedly consider that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0127f408a274f868f8afaf351c4e7b9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank all members for their contributions. The Hon Peter Dunne has asked me to give consideration to the matter. I will do so, but I do remind members that the allocation of questions, both primary and supplementary, is discussed at length at the start of each Parliament and has, by tradition, for many years now, been allocated on a proportional basis. I note that members to my right often do not use their full allocation; members to my left certainly do. The arrangements by which some of the smaller parties do not get perhaps what they see as a fair share is often made then by informal arrangements between a major party and a coalition party. What I do need is for that arrangement to be relatively formal, so that I can keep score. But in regard to Mr Dunne\u2019s issue, I will give it further consideration. I may raise it as an item for discussion at the Business Committee next week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216cf4051698f46c2a8de623b238b3313\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just ask you to confer with the officials. I think I actually do have two supplementary questions remaining this week, quite apart from anything else\u2014and thank you for the freebie. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256373b98730a42ed99764a5038a12c33\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will check that out again, but not according to the records that are being presented to me. The member is entitled to two questions; there are an additional three that have been granted by the National Party to Mr Seymour. That makes a total of five and, as I have pointed out, with great enthusiasm he asked five supplementary questions yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce5fe1dc9cfe48d9826bc1118c0b2aa5\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Minister for Economic Development that growth in per capita GDP last year was \u201Cabout half a percent\u201D; if so, is Hamish Rutherford not correct that New Zealand\u2019s economic growth is \u201Cdriven almost exclusively by rising population\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fc7c32bfcb2434fa78e8fec346be9c2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I consult with a range of economists and statisticians, and Hamish Rutherford, I understand, fits neither of those descriptions\u2014but he is a journalist. No, he is not correct, but I do notice that the Opposition and, to some extent, commentators always say that whatever is causing growth at the moment is not valid growth, and that if you took it out growth would be zero. Well, that is true\u2014if you take away everything that is growing, there is no growth. But, in fact, for the 21-year-old M\u0101ori and Polynesian males who have just got apprenticeships in Auckland, and will get more because we are announcing the T\u0101maki regeneration project, they think it is real growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ef3f8e5d98345e59e750bf49838b46e\u0022\u003EMark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: What international reports has he received on the performance of the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237acf98621b14188b958243c3f893c75\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There was a recent article in the Australian Financial Review that said, in one of the rare occasions that it reports on New Zealand, that the New Zealand Government has \u201Cachieved an increasingly rare feat in any advanced economy. That includes returning a budget to surplus while managing better growth along with substantive social, economic and \u2026 taxation reform.\u201D That is not a bad verdict from the Aussies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ba7084e878f44fe8a2e1f1edf410f564\u0022\u003EHousing, Auckland\u2014Affordability\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022184d703bb39644e4bc53ddd27cd0ebc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022184d703bb39644e4bc53ddd27cd0ebc6\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement that he doesn\u2019t accept the average Auckland house, costing $992,000, is out of reach for most families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00227619b0552a884b8aadfba4cb63d33a19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227619b0552a884b8aadfba4cb63d33a19\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by my full statement in the House yesterday, which was: \u201CIf you look at the year to 31 March 2016 in Auckland there were 31,963 sales. Sales in the under $600,000 category of \u2026 homes were over 30 percent of that\u20149,638 sales. For \u2026 houses under $650,000 there were 11,842\u201437 percent of sales.\u201D My point was that there is a significant number of Auckland houses selling for well under the reported average price. In addition, on the back of the Government\u2019s housing plan, we are on track to build 85,000 new houses across New Zealand in this term of Parliament alone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c41a14cf1b59404ca891c20d6182ac64\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with bumbling Nick Smith that houses are getting more affordable despite\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228790eaa785584ee39645b1d7e6387643\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can I just ask the member to start the question again. I may have missed something that he added in the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4e78a370ab846cb8d21ff45bcce74f3\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: I am obliged to Mr Speaker. Does he agree with the Minister for Building and Housing, Nick Smith, that houses are getting more affordable, despite prices rising by half a million dollars under his Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c68bf13055d648dc83d4c5589d136c85\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think the point that the Minister was making was that there are a number of different factors, and one of them includes very low interest rates and high levels of economic growth. I think it is probably worth injecting just a few facts into this debate. If one looks at the 2009 to 2016 level, national house prices across the country in that period of time grew 43 percent. Interestingly enough, as a comparator, between 2000 and 2008 national house prices grew by 102 percent. If one looks at Auckland over the period 2009 to 2016, house prices grew 82 percent. But, interestingly enough, if one looks at Auckland house prices between the period of 2000 to 2008, they grew 87 percent. So it is pretty simple. When they go up by a smaller amount under a National-led Government it is a crisis, but when they go up faster under Labour it is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f549b36ea7c4ef78e4063396438cd7d\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, and moving to the present, if housing is getting more affordable, why is homeownership falling and why are record numbers now living in cars and garages?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fd0c13df7af4a18acf5c97a0af4266b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: There are many reasons why homeownership rates have been declining over the last 30 years, but I go back to my point. Opposition members seem to care about this issue today but did not care about it when they were in Government. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bf8b76f80304b15a37e1ef961e1d30d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On both sides now the interjections are just too loud and interruptive to the questioning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d68fc2bc8aa84ed69daa061b66de6619\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Does he seriously think most families have a $200,000 deposit and can afford the $1,000 a week mortgage needed for the average Auckland house?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e46d8bf15d94b72adbf84e1650c30ac\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: There will be a great range, of course, of different financial circumstances of New Zealanders. But as I said yesterday, interestingly enough, in the under $600,000 category, 30 percent of all sales took place at that level, and at the new $650,000 category, where people can get access to the KiwiSaver HomeStart programme in Auckland, 37 percent of sales took place. Interestingly enough, just to take, for instance, Hamilton, 75 percent of all sales that took place over the last 12 months were under $500,000. In Tauranga, for houses under $500,000, it was 54 percent. It is quite wrong to say there are no sales that take place at more affordable levels, and a lot of New Zealanders are very realistic and they do match their income and their deposits with the houses that are there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219a425cfad5542a2aa72822ed088aac5\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: When Auckland\u2019s population grew by 43,000 last year but, according to Bill English, only 500 affordable houses were built, how can he possibly deny there is a shortage of affordable housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225704bab26a11440db33c832e60f14f81\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is working on the issue of making sure that there are more affordable houses. But I actually do stand proudly by the fact that there are Kiwis returning from overseas. There are New Zealanders not going because they see opportunities, rising wages, a stronger economy here in New Zealand. The Labour Party thinks success is when everybody leaves and you have got to go to the departure lounge to see your grandkids. Well, if that is success, you have got a pretty warped view of what a good New Zealand is like. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226824b5ede765497db5b2c4fb29296d4f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb9a7c24e28548dfa2d5d424265192cf\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Can he just tell me straight when homeownership rates will start to rise again in New Zealand and restore the Kiwi Dream of homeownership once more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274b9b1845f5a4a4fa923a7a21bb38d2c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot tell the member when that side of the trends will change, but what I can say is that under a National-led Government there is a very comprehensive plan of ensuring that there is both increasing supply and support. Interestingly enough, we saw the Real Estate Institute of New Zealand data that came out today and indicated Auckland is the slowest-increasing region in the country for house prices. I say to the Nick Leggett hater: why does he not just understand the data?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb3300e60ea540cab4fc3281c915f884\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the fact that 75 percent of New Zealanders do not believe him when he says that he has got the housing crisis under control, when will he finally step up and take responsibility?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224068817b183e46c095453c91163481bd\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I go back to the interesting facts, which are that there are more houses being constructed than ever before. There is a housing boom taking place in New Zealand. There are more people working in the construction sector than we have ever seen before. Under a National-led Government national house prices have gone up at under half the rate that they did under the previous Labour Government. It is very easy in Opposition to make these claims, but, in Government, Labour was a complete and utter failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002222440631dd904fbc8c96f00771728739\u0022\u003EBuilding and Construction Industry\u2014Jobs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00228128aec86ee94dc088e429851147d66b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228128aec86ee94dc088e429851147d66b\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment: What recent reports has he received on job growth in the construction industries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022fccdc8f8a3264e83b1070d41261e7406\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fccdc8f8a3264e83b1070d41261e7406\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Recently the Minister for Building and Housing and I released the National Construction Occupations projections report, which shows that the number of people working in construction-related occupations is expected to hit a high of 539,500 in the next 5 years, up nearly 10 percent\u2014or 49,000\u2014from last year. Occupations expected to experience the largest growth in the next 5 years are electricians, 14 percent; plumbers, 13 percent; and civil engineers, 11 percent. The majority of this building activity will be in residential construction, which is already at record levels across the country and is expected to grow a further 20 percent in the next 2 years. The report was released alongside the National Construction Pipeline Report from Building Research Association of New Zealand and Pacifecon, which predicts that the total value of building and construction work by 2021 will top $200 billion. New Zealand is in the middle of its biggest ever building boom, and the workforce to support this boom is continuing to grow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022460fa25b64fb4392a6a601468a76bddf\u0022\u003EKanwaljit Singh Bakshi\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he received on recent job growth in the construction industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270c0f40a203c4fcc9abfc1f4d429b9f9\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The industry is growing rapidly and was the largest contributor to annual employment growth last year, with 27,500 more people employed. In fact, there are 40,000 more people employed in construction today than 2 years ago. The nationwide construction sector workforce is the largest it has ever been, with 232,000 people working directly in the industry, while a much larger group of 490,000 work in construction-related occupations. The Auckland construction workforce has grown by more than 24,000 in just the last 2 years, to a total of 80,000 people currently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b6e5d9c20a84195ab00914ca10a471d\u0022\u003EKanwaljit Singh Bakshi\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government supporting the demand for tradies, including in the construction industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c46df08be0764d4cb505ed174da23df4\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: With construction growth at record levels and forecast to keep growing, the Government is actively supporting the industry to train more skilled workers to meet the demand for new housing and construction. Last year there were almost 38,000 people training in construction-related fields, which is an increase of nearly 20 percent over 4 years. For the first time ever, the number of apprentices being trained by the Building and Construction Industry Training Organisation has topped 10,000. To further support training, Budget 2016 included a further $14 million for more apprentices, along with $9.6 million for M\u0101ori and Pasifika trades training. We are also supporting initiatives like Ara at Auckland Airport, which is bringing people off benefits and into meaningful employment and training on that worksite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228213e9df7831416d9fee47d73d227705\u0022\u003EPolice Resourcing\u2014Numbers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00226324f91f1f2a48c7a93889ef3e304a93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226324f91f1f2a48c7a93889ef3e304a93\u0022\u003ERON MARK (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he continue to stand by all his statements; if so, in what fashion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00222a4324d73f7247b483618275c1af2214\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a4324d73f7247b483618275c1af2214\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; and I did not realise question time had become Project Runway, but now that the member has asked today, I am wearing a New Zealand - designed suit. It is a New Zealand shirt made and designed here, but it is 100 percent Egyptian cotton. It is an Italian tie, and\u2014I have got to be honest\u2014I bought the shoes in Paris. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220644d874903f45d1bc0709a461bcad2e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I do not mind some interjection, but when it is continuous I am going to have to deal with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f96016a290446009e2213d618166501\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: When he said \u201Cany increase in police would not be made because of [Mr] Peters\u2019 demands\u201D following six extra police being sent to Kait\u0101ia on a fixed 12-month term, how does he explain this being doubled to 12 in the past 24 hours? Is it coincidence or politically fashionable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a38c580deb214b6db70a4fc8d3ee0387\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The police make their own decisions in the operational sense of where they send police officers, but all I can say is that we do not respond to Mr Peters. What we do do is honour our commitments. When we came into office in 2008 there were 8,211 police officers. As of today the latest annual report showed there are 8,899, an increase of 688 police officers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022626331c88022480f992a9749d55d9740\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: If Minister Collins met with him 2 months ago, as she said this morning, to discuss her concerns over police resources, why have you, Prime Minister, waited until yesterday to announce increased police numbers, or did Winston Peters just jog your mind?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb31eef2974c4a7bb8ba2b34c7acf393\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: When the Government makes an announcement about the increase in the number of police officers, it will do that as a formal announcement with details and specifics around that. I simply made the point when I was asked the question about police numbers that the numbers had gone up under a National-led Government and that I was confident that over time they would continue to increase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c71c3c526ff447a4a96d6d4023dcf657\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Prime Minister, are you listening to the concerns of your Ministers, such as the Minister of Police, Minister Collins, or is she simply not briefing you correctly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022062c57492a2a4084a5c0c247047d79bb\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member has clearly never been in a briefing with Judith Collins if he does not think that she would be briefing me correctly, forcefully, and with all of the attention, care, and love that she has for the New Zealand Police Force. Police budgets in annual terms have gone up over $400 million in the time that we have been in office. We have increased both the technology and number of police officers, and I am confident we will continue to invest in the police force. One thing I will say: on this side of the House, in good times and in bad, we actually support and back the police officers of New Zealand. That is not always the case on the other side. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c16495d00c784501a18554c46b3445bb\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Who does he agree with: his former Minister of Police and Deputy Prime Minister, who said crime is decreasing; New Zealand First, which said crime is actually increasing; his current Minister of Police, who is now saying police are under-resourced; or is he actually listening to his poll-driven focus groups?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c5d78695d134e36b0faf27ab226b800\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with the Deputy Prime Minister that crime rates are going down, because that is a statement of fact. I agree with the Minister of Police when she says that we are investing in, and will continue to invest in, and support, police officers. I do not agree with Mr Peters when he says the crime rate is going up, because he is palpably wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257e90025274a4f2cb1f7efd6155ca493\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Then, Prime Minister, why have you allowed our police per capita ratio in New Zealand to plummet from 1:488, when New Zealand First was in coalition Government, to where it is now at 1:526? Why have you allowed that to drop?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f19ec0a3e4b84202a5d1fc4b4655b3af\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is true that the ratio has increased slightly, and the Government will be looking at those issues, but I think it is a little simplistic to say it is solely around those ratios, because of the increases in technology. We have invested an enormous amount in that area and have got the equivalent of, from memory, about 324 additional police officers. I think it is logical, actually, to ask our police force to use the best technology, provide the capability, and therefore allow them to redeploy themselves and do more on the street. It is not solely just a matter of using old technology and more people on the street. I think that is a reasonably smart thing and that that police would back that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a92f2a0174f843728abb6f76a25ac044\u0022\u003ETeachers\u2014Teach First NZ\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4b36d57c7f84e93b923dc51818dcf81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4b36d57c7f84e93b923dc51818dcf81\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What recent announcements has she made that will get more teachers into low-decile schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9488efeaf6844a4894a6cbdd7b5c2ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9488efeaf6844a4894a6cbdd7b5c2ff\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I was pleased to announce today the extension and expansion of a groundbreaking teacher training programme to help strengthen and grow the teacher workforce. The Teach First NZ pilot has been very effective in attracting high-achieving graduates into teaching. That is why we are extending the programme for a further 2 years to train 40 new secondary school teachers and expanding it by another 10 places focused on science, technology, and maths in 2017. This means there will be up to 30 places in 2017 and 50 new trainees overall by 2018. Teach First NZ is a field-based initial teacher education programme developed by the University of Auckland and the Teach First NZ Trust. The programme has a robust selection process that selects high-calibre participants\u2014just the type of teachers we want in our schools. It also has a high completion and retention rate, so we are backing it to recruit more quality graduates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217812e48c129440b852e553e55359292\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: How will this announcement help more young people succeed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7ceef08285e4b7f953a7740294c5461\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: We are committed to recruiting the best and brightest into teaching, particularly in high-demand subjects like science, technology, and maths. The extra places and the expansion to allow Teach First NZ to cover technology graduates will help attract more new teachers for these subjects. The Ministry of Education has just released the third of four evaluation reports on the pilot from the New Zealand Council for Educational Research. The report confirms that Teach First NZ is effective and is being efficiently implemented. The strength of the relationship between Teach First NZ and the University of Auckland is an important factor in the success of the programme\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277455acf829f4d13a90138acea12b991\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: No one\u2019s listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9f412498461440c81b5a75bca8ed6c6\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and the success of our kids. Mr Mark, you may not be listening, but the sector is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022750472a1c7b740e094044c775087b4dc\u0022\u003ESchools, Funding\u2014Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002214dde4c4ecbd4666839ca94f6378c354\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214dde4c4ecbd4666839ca94f6378c354\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she still expect her Government will live up to the Prime Minister\u2019s statement regarding the review of the education funding system that the Government \u201Cwouldn\u2019t really be progressing the issue unless they could get the other stakeholders on board\u2014the unions and others\u201D; if so, will she now rule out implementing global budgets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u002200971abf7e24407cb3c169bb2a504aa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200971abf7e24407cb3c169bb2a504aa7\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I can tell you that the Prime Minister and I are in complete agreement that we would like to get all stakeholders on board\u2014parents, teachers, as well as unions\u2014and that we need a system that delivers the right funding to the right child at the right time to ensure their educational success. If the member had chosen to provide the Prime Minister\u2019s full quote in context, it would have been clear to the House that he was referring to advice I had provided to him that we should work with all stakeholders. In regard to the proposed global budgets\u2014one of several proposals\u2014we are still in an advisory group process, including unions, that then must be taken to Cabinet, and, therefore, I cannot rule anything in or out at this stage of the consultation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254fe30f2f7074926b730bc881387a178\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: In light of her claim \u201Cit isn\u2019t bulk funding\u201D, what is the difference between her proposed global budgets and bulk funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226814e570611f497db45680245d076495\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: The criticism of bulk funding from 20 years ago was that it incentivised the employment of younger, less experienced\u2014and, therefore, cheaper\u2014salaried teachers. I might add at this point that we are finding it difficult to get young graduates appointed to permanent positions in schools, but\u2014coming back to the member\u2019s question\u2014that is the only criticism of it. In the global budget we have provided for an average notional salary so that schools will be indifferent as to what level of expertise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225045ee505aec400fa1c694b10bce7b43\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: No, they won\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f981c72d0f924cabbaf326153f33b9ce\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014they employ into their schools. Yes, I am sorry, did you need me to go over that for you, Sue\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a892630b87944bcdbfcfd97e73c2ea3a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The answer is finished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f308204387d94d4495d199ee81b8a62d\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Are the teachers wrong when they say proposed global budgets would mean parents on school boards of trustees \u201Cwould have to make trade offs between the number of teachers they employ and the other non-teaching costs of running a school.\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226242e4f9451640b0be6ad1fb057f3846\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: The member is actually referring to unions rather than teachers. The unions have said\u2014[Interruption] The unions held a press conference yesterday and said that this was what was proposed. The fact of the matter is that there are already flexibilities available in every school. In our self-managing system, the boards and principals make decisions about where they deploy resources. So what we are trying to do is continue the theme of parents having greater choice, schools having greater flexibility, and real kids in real time getting great results through those decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022567ba65d430d435bb45f33f34f094520\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Under the proposed global budgets could schools opt to employ fewer teachers in exchange for more non-teaching funding if the Government froze their operating funding\u2014as it did in this year\u2019s Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228889e2f971094f6091ea398ce61fb4cc\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: These are all just proposals at this stage, and under our system schools make different decisions all the time. The proposal around a global budget is to give them flexibilities. The proposal is also operating in the context where we have far more data than we have ever had before\u2014which is highlighting what the actual achievement challenges are, school by school. Therefore, the choices each school will make will be different according to the educational challenges they have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227af5cfbd99c2453a930eb21321807ea0\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was quite specific about whether schools would or would not be able to do something under the proposal that she has put forward, and she has not actually given an answer to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226654ff4310414b58a872691869b22d1a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: She has. If the member listened, the Minister then said that because they are just proposals she cannot answer that. That is an answer that addresses the question. It may not be one that the member likes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f57b94b59b04d08865216e6d6448afd\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: If schools employ fewer teachers, with the same number of students, will class sizes at those schools have to increase; if not, how would they not increase?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022881c4b97058b4d31b6a1f8557af96e61\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: The member is posing a hypothetical about what schools might do when they have very different challenges between them, and they exercise flexibilities now. This approach gives them that greater licence to do so because the achievement challenges are different in different schools\u2014just as, under the current situation, schools make different decisions about how they deploy their teacher-aides, about whether they team teach or individually teach, about whether they have shared classrooms or separate unit cells, or whether they use different curriculum resources. These are all the prerogative of the professionals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226acfc51c3de34bb4a09983d5796b0596\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: In making those decisions, how could a school reduce the number of teachers it employs without either increasing class sizes or reducing the number of subjects available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f6558c3e91446d8bb9e59897076e99a\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I am not going to be speaking to a hypothetical on behalf of 2,500 schools that are making different decisions every day. This is a proposal. It is a very open and inclusive process with an advisory group that includes 17 representatives from across the sector. I am waiting to hear back from them with their advice on these particular issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f443167d7c5544e49b4f42f6e93e7b63\u0022\u003EHousing\u2014Affordability for Young People\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u002201dfe4579df64b589a9e3417507909be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201dfe4579df64b589a9e3417507909be\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: T\u016B ai a ia i runga i te mana o tana tau\u0101k\u012B, e p\u0101 ana ki te m\u0101kete whiwhinga whare, \u201CMy advice is to believe in the system because it will work for young people\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E[Does he stand by his statement about the housing market \u201CMy advice is to believe in the system because it will work for young people\u201D?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5201e4d9e52430a91a42438aa8ff14f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5201e4d9e52430a91a42438aa8ff14f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. However, the system would definitely not work for young homeowners if house prices crashed by half, as advocated by that member. That Green-Labour policy would be a war on the poor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c86b137e4fcb4ffbbbc5d1b2533a9252\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How exactly is the system working for the young Aucklanders trying to save a deposit while the average house price rises $570 a day and their rent rises twice as fast as their wages?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256d277a0b36e4f2a8395e8d07748865e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think there are a number of factors when you are a young person. One, certainly, is access to quality education, which is improving under this Government. I think the second thing is ensuring that there are job opportunities for New Zealanders who, ultimately, do invest in their education. We know that unemployment rates are falling and opportunities are rising in a place like Auckland\u2014indeed all around the country. Secondly, if we look at a young couple who wants to buy a house or a young individual who wants to buy a house, whether it is in Auckland or anywhere around New Zealand, the Government has KiwiSaver HomeStart, which has recently just had both the income thresholds and the asset price thresholds increased. That does allow New Zealanders to access those. If you look at somewhere like Hamilton, for instance, I think that just under 79 percent of the sales that took place were in the $550,000 category, where KiwiSaver HomeStart would work for those youngsters. So I think, overall, you would say it is working for people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fc44ddfdfc546f2938fbc2b4ebabc5f\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How can he argue that his policy is working, HomeStart included, when in 2001, 46 percent of people aged between 20 and 40 owned their own home, and in 2013, after his policies were in place, that dropped to only 35 percent of people aged between 20 and 40 years old?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ed8bd105e184de2addd39af32921f72\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am always suspect about Green Party numbers, but as I say, and I am pleased that the member did raise the issue of 2001, as I pointed out today to my good and close friends in the Labour Party, in that period between 2000 and 2008\u2014so the 2001 period the member is talking about\u2014there was a staggering national increase of 102 percent in house prices, and in Auckland an 87 percent increase in house prices. That probably was a crisis compared with the 43 percent and 82 percent increase respectively under a National-led Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247c29b78-eee0-4c91-afdf-7b07be780e1a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022247ca95cf49a4900a3f4ee1638f78f35\u0022\u003EDenis O\u2019Rourke\u003C/span\u003E: What advice would the Prime Minister give to the many grandparents and parents who own their own homes when asked by their grandchildren or children why it is that they cannot realistically expect to become homeowners themselves, especially if they live in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3b1b48e7c4441ea8a22ccfad3d46edc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The first thing I would say to those grandparents is: is it not lovely that under a National-led Government they can give their grandkids a hug in New Zealand, where they are now living, as opposed to overseas, when New Zealand First was last in Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2cfcae4e4174fa5b0b3022640e612e4\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister genuinely\u2014[Interruption] Is the Prime Minister seriously telling New Zealand families that it is perfectly fine to give their grandchildren a hug and then send them back out to their cars to sleep because homelessness has become such a serious issue in this country? Is that what he is saying to New Zealanders now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dde2f99bc054b5fa86de7e002b7f081\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No. But what I am saying is that what you have seen in the last period of time in New Zealand is a significant number of New Zealanders returning and a significant number of New Zealanders choosing not to go. Personally, I think that is a vote of confidence by those New Zealanders in our country and in our future. What the Labour, Green, and New Zealand First parties seem to be saying is that New Zealand was so much better when people were deserting the country, and I just do not agree with that proposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d40d4b2e22984b56a8d9441a62d0cd04\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with the World Bank, the United Nations, and Demographia that the price to income ratio of three times the median household income is the standard measure for an affordable home?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da19b4406f624139996cbfbcce2764a2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think that in international cities there would be the case anywhere that, I think, the member could quote. So I think what is realistic, though, when looking at affordability for homes, is: do people have a job to support the mortgage; are interest rates at an affordable rate for them; is the prospect if they lose their job or want further overtime likely to be there; is there, in some cases, assistance from the Government, as there is under the National-led Government through KiwiSaver HomeStart; and, most importantly, what is the pipeline of development of housing in the case of New Zealand? Under this Government, it is extremely significant. That is why we are seeing a record number of houses being built.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cefc00e1f87481ab36bc6ca8403891c\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Is that the excuse for unaffordable housing that he would give to the principal of an average-size primary school, who would have to spend about eight times their income to buy a median-priced house in Auckland; I mean, is the housing market working for that family?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c374f16bda824b8e975b825a8d6f5296\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member talks about an average principal of a New Zealand primary school, I think she quoted. If they live in Hamilton, 71 percent of all sales that took place were under $500,000. But if they lived in Auckland, 30 percent of sales that took place were under $600,000, and 37 percent under $650,000. My colleague before was just looking on TradeMe and the number of properties in Auckland that are under $500,000. There are many properties listed there. Not every property that is bought and sold is done so at the median rate. That is the reality of the property market. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f7edd0e294a438f9eca10607f041fa8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! If Mrs King and the Prime Minister wish to have a discussion, I would suggest they do it in the lobbies after question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022668fc38e01f4458b9da6d1c89f0d858a\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: So is it his advice\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b1e6946e5b34007acfb42151e670291\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Prime Minister, there is a question to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231f814ff6115449e9b9400c5e59af09a\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the Prime Minister\u2019s advice, then, to a senior station officer in the Fire Service in Auckland who earns a maximum of $77,000 a year that they should just abandon the city they work in and go and live somewhere else\u2014is that his advice now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228485d39657e146fd987b2b11be0e29ec\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, but in many cases, and the member has quoted one\u2014$77,000\u2014in all probability, these are relationships where there are two members of the household working. So, again, let us just argue that the other partner is earning $50,000 or $60,000 a year\u2014they have got an income of about $140,000 a year. I accept that there are people who earn more than that, and I accept that there are people who earn less. With $140,000 a year on very low interest rates, they will be able to afford a property in Auckland. It may not be the property that the member is talking about, but there will be properties they can afford at those levels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022281fb6a5b60b4cbc8d2093fc8f241645\u0022\u003ETrade, China\u2014Retaliatory Export Restrictions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022acebae26291d46afbd3c2293b1e11e83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acebae26291d46afbd3c2293b1e11e83\u0022\u003EDr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin North)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Trade: On what date was he or his office first informed of the \u201Cpossible trade retaliation\u201D that triggered engagement at \u201Cvarious levels of Government\u201D with China and when were the Prime Minister, his office, and the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet first informed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac3c395257db4c8a92f64173d1ed8bc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac3c395257db4c8a92f64173d1ed8bc1\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E As I have already said publicly, I first learnt of concerns and allegations in late May. The Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC) was copied in to some reports subsequently that related to this issue. On 15 July the Prime Minister\u2019s office was made aware of issues to be raised in a media story that weekend, and the Prime Minister was briefed on a possible specific company concern or threat on 18 July in Jakarta. The Prime Minister was further informed on 25 July that there had been earlier discussions and limited correspondence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e2ed89d8c1a4a939e8f8e9d2cd7af43\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I appreciate the detail of the answer that the Minister gave. I did just wonder whether you can reflect on a question on notice\u2014several hours\u2019 notice\u2014that the Minister gave us only in \u201Clate May\u201D. He did not give us a date. He was able to give dates for all of the other parts of the question, for which we are grateful, but he did not answer the first part on the date that he was first informed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b514b5fd2d7422e821bf6f71def2cb4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is reasonable. If the Minister has the actual date that he was first aware of the issue, that would be helpful. He certainly gave dates for the DPMC, the Prime Minister\u2019s office, and the Prime Minister quite specifically. If we could have that, it would be helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291b78065ccf944cebb8791afb64622c6\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: On or around 25 May.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241a74b29ab5246bcac24c063c5fd1c0d\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Is he saying the Prime Minister is wrong when he said he first knew about possible reprisals on 21 July?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fcf23d1d6b448f0b2259f9e09a2914f\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: No. As I have already said publicly, I should have provided the Prime Minister with a fuller account of the issues, and I have offered an apology to him for that. In terms of any potential threat to our trade, let me assure the House that this issue has been taken very seriously. Every time there was a suggestion of a rumour or a threat to our trade, I have sought and received assurances from the Chinese Government that any concerns around retaliatory action were unfounded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022285fc8147eba4bf2b6b520abfdebbc1a\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: What prompted the discussions at various levels of Government in May?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226846cc83986e459e8985e89430dc912e\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: In broad terms, the engagement relates to both Governments explaining their positions, clarifying legislation and other requirements around trade remedy issues, or New Zealand\u2019s officials seeking assurances in the event of suggestions or rumours of possible trade retaliation being brought to our attention. However, there are limits in what detail I can provide, given the legislative constraints around the reporting of competition complaints that are not yet under investigation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdd6394bdd4c4ca5a96f7211d9ed4737\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he say that the contact from Zespri to the New Zealand Embassy in China on 8 July was the first time a concern was raised about possible trade retaliation, when in fact discussions had been taking place since May?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e234d4a7a8d54ac59e2e041392492ee7\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to a company-specific concern, my statement was as understood and was correct. However, I repeat again that, as a result of legislation, there are things that we are not able to speak about when it comes to competition issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ac349fbe0e5471ab11eab01250a0c46\u0022\u003EDr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he say on the weekend of 17 July that he knew nothing about possible trade retaliation concerns, when he was briefed on concerns when in China in the previous week for a meeting with Minister Gao?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226632155088054d4f97771f7a969449f9\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of that, I accept I should have sought a fuller briefing and provided additional information to the Prime Minister, and I have apologised to him for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ab96d895f7048298962b06e66a94c44\u0022\u003EImmigration New Zealand\u2014Vision 2015\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9cf4bb82d934cca996cd2df5a19f528\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9cf4bb82d934cca996cd2df5a19f528\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: What recent announcements has the Government made in relation to the Vision 2015 programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022dff6c87fdabc48418c75305b00a2f652\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dff6c87fdabc48418c75305b00a2f652\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Last week the Government welcomed two reports that show the learnings of Immigration New Zealand\u2019s (INZ) successful Vision 2015 programme. The programme was launched in 2012 and formally closed in June this year. It involved a $136 million technology-enabled business transformation of people, process, and place, which has enabled Immigration New Zealand to deliver a more customer-focused, consistent, and cost-effective service. The success of the programme has ensured that INZ is recognised as a trusted partner capable of providing outstanding immigration services, and ensures that we facilitate the effective movement of the increasing number of people coming over New Zealand\u2019s borders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fefddfac77a64c8aa2d56e6243d7b2b3\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: What were the main initiatives undertaken through the Vision 2015 programme, and how have these initiatives improved INZ\u2019s operations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7973fc0b5c74c79a966022768fd7597\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Immigration New Zealand was constrained by a high-cost operating model, a bricks and mortar - based system, and limited ability to respond to customer and market demands. Vision 2015 has transformed and streamlined services for customers, with the deployment of Immigration Online, which allows applications for student, work, and visitor visas to be made online. E-medicals can be made online, and the sorts of biometric checks for identity and risk are also now being done in this system. The risk-based approach to managing applications means communicating with hundreds of trusted partners, including high-end tourism operators, education providers, and key industry sectors, to facilitate value and low-risk visa processing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e56677da2ffa4d55b667c76e18b3da88\u0022\u003ESchools, Funding\u2014Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u00227a5ac441376f43a3883a59d54df2bc5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a5ac441376f43a3883a59d54df2bc5a\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Will she guarantee that her education funding review will not lead to larger class sizes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u002279c818c1dfee4b0dadee014deb7e92f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279c818c1dfee4b0dadee014deb7e92f9\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Class sizes are determined by principals; therefore, the member\u2019s question is best directed to them. I know that principals make decisions that are in the best interests of their school community, and the education funding review is aimed at providing them with the best tools and flexibility possible to allow and support them to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a04884e95b0a414fad768c2a46f8ea50\u0022\u003ECatherine Delahunty\u003C/span\u003E: Do larger class sizes result in better educational outcomes for children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0e5704a4e0b4a568385370e9084b49a\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: The evidence is very clear that it is the quality of teaching and leadership in a school that makes the most difference to the quality of learning that children have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddb1616d6f444d10affa3311f5057386\u0022\u003ECatherine Delahunty\u003C/span\u003E: When parents in 2012 soundly rejected increased class sizes, what has changed since then that would justify a funding proposal that facilitates that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222903b25053d344b18db3d6b935997e69\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the member\u2019s proposition that the proposals that we are discussing will facilitate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2acd9a7280944a39f887f158f564901\u0022\u003ECatherine Delahunty\u003C/span\u003E: Which advice would she give a principal with urgent, conflicting demands on their budget because of her proposed funding model: to increase class sizes, restrict curriculum choices, not have computers, or cash up a few teachers, as this option allows?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227951b695545e4c83a3c14178bfd81395\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Unlike the member, I hold principals in high regard. I trust them to use their professional judgment about what is necessary. They do that based on the data and experience of their actual children, and they do it informed by the guidance of the board, made up largely of the parents of children at their school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b054fa3bc70d4eb3b8fff686ad2eb759\u0022\u003ERoad Safety\u2014Alcohol Interlocks\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00224510dd0bce9a49078099c6c927932a28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224510dd0bce9a49078099c6c927932a28\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Transport: What steps is the Government taking to increase the take-up of alcohol interlocks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022e42c74d7f0c14e179f367ca430f96df9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e42c74d7f0c14e179f367ca430f96df9\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS (Associate Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Our road toll is much, much too high. To help to address this, the Government has decided that alcohol interlock sentences will become mandatory for serious repeat offenders with two or more drink-driving convictions within 5 years, and first-time offenders who are more than three times over the legal limit. Around two-thirds of all fatal crashes are caused by a combination of alcohol, drugs, and/or excessive speed. Interlocks physically prevent an offender from drink-driving, ensuring their own safety, and, of course, the safety of other passengers and other New Zealanders on the road. Mandatory interlock sentences are a targeted and effective way to help spare families, friends, loved ones, and communities the pain and suffering that inevitably follow each and every serious crash.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4313bc84fd64efea938d07df6e2cce8\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen on the Government\u2019s announcement to make alcohol interlock sentences mandatory?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dff0fad782ea4d04b38ef6a165e11eff\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen many reports from organisations that support the Government\u2019s announcement yesterday. The Automobile Association says: \u201CThe Government\u2019s intention to make alcohol interlocks mandatory for many drink-drivers is a much-needed advancement to keep innocent people safe on the roads.\u201D Sober Check says that it has seen firsthand the good that alcohol interlocks do\u2014and they really do effect and improve driver behaviour change. The road safety charity Brake is pleased with the \u201Chardline approach\u201D this Government is taking to drink-driving. Mandatory interlocks for repeat, serious drink-driving offenders will make our roads safer for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224eee2830f3354f4398b5688f02db25f7\u0022\u003EPolice Resourcing\u2014Numbers and Crime Rate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd45be41e106449f8754e76785a1431e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd45be41e106449f8754e76785a1431e\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour\u2014Napier)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Is there any link between the increase in crime and the decline in police numbers in the past year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002215dcef4acb1246b4bd032af35bc9ef65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215dcef4acb1246b4bd032af35bc9ef65\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E To my fellow right-winger, the premise of the member\u2019s question is flawed. Police are funded for 8,907 sworn staff each year, and that has not changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1d48e7136094dfb9c7cc17ab278b123\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that her Government has failed on John Key\u2019s 2008 promise to maintain a police to population ratio of 1:500, and it has, in fact, worsened?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225da399c6b3c4a27a03d0aca4d1b8456\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Not really, when you consider that we have got the equivalent of 350 police officers from the electronic assistance mobility programme that we funded for police, as well as the fact that police now have Tasers, firearms in lock boxes in their cars, stab-resistant body armour, new ballistic body armour, enhanced pepper spray, automatic number plate recognition, boots for all the staff, and sponge rounds for the armed offenders squad\u2014none of which, of course, was funded by the previous Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242fdb806d7394bd7b1073b8fd9a4d2c1\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: If she has been, in her words, \u201Cworking on a policy for more police for quite some time\u201D, why does the police 4-year strategy show no plans to increase police numbers until at least 2020?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222137080408c646da9ec3f38e56396be8\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: As I could have said to Mr Leggett the other day at the police college in Porirua, police 4-year plans are police 4-year plans; they are not necessarily the Government\u2019s 4-year plans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bde6210fb57b48aabc0dd45843010ff6\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister sign off on that police 4-year plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b1f258d652347c6a184c438edb8e250\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Most likely at the time, but, of course, things have moved on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206f9d83394c04306aca9aedd1311c4b5\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Why has she said for months that funding and resources are sufficient, and dismissed everyone, including the Police Association, which challenged this, when clearly this is not the case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232cb5cd0d4de4ea7b17106451808b886\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think I have made it very clear that, at the moment, it is all right. But the trouble is that we are looking to the future and we are looking to the fact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b04f89c35a994deeb24bc0fe7e702ec5\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: This Minister is always looking to the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232f1d0da40d3489591f48d2f9b668797\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that so many New Zealanders now come back from overseas and the population is rising because of it. We are no longer losing 40,000 Kiwis every year, as we did under a previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274c21d349ccc4fabb8df12ff94ba84a5\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: What has made the Minister change her mind on police numbers between May, when she signed off on the police\u2019s 4-year plan, and today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4543d249cfd4a519454981689efc766\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Looking to the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207e7ef8053ec449d8f42b9bbf22b4810\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that raw front-line police data shows that in 2008, police attended 240,000 confirmed offences compared with 2015, when they attended 280,000 confirmed offences, and how is that, in her\u2014and Bill English\u2019s, and now the Prime Minister\u2019s\u2014own words, a reduction in crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e75bff53c674cf5aa43b1c85d0eff69\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: For that member\u2019s benefit, the crime rate is looked at on a per capita basis. The population has increased by about 400,000 New Zealanders, because people like living under a John Key - led Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d517dadf0e9419fba3b3040922dda73\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that those numbers of confirmed offences were provided to me by her office through answers to written questions, just 1 week after she told this House that she stood by her advice that the crime numbers were down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a99b0eff04e43a8adfff702cfa64fdd\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I am very pleased that my office is giving the member assistance, and I am sure that next time it will tell him that the crime statistics are actually worked on a per capita basis, not just on the bald figures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022280dea7b9df94e21bbe5b4bdbb0fd903\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225a65fff2076c4d57af4a2b85783f5615\u0022\u003EHealthy Homes Guarantee Bill (No 2)\u2014Purpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7bb7775e38e41d1b7f1346a41c594e8\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Healthy Homes Guarantee Bill (No 2): Why did he draft the Healthy Homes Guarantee Bill (No 2)?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2ce79676d9b4ee0b1f88754e1e078ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2ce79676d9b4ee0b1f88754e1e078ab\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Member in charge of the Healthy Homes Guarantee Bill (No 2)):\u003C/span\u003E Because, in 2016, no child in New Zealand should be living in a hovel, and it is time that New Zealand accepted a standard that no child should be getting sick or die because they cannot live in a warm, safe, dry home. This bill sets standards to ensure that every rental property is livable and will keep kids out of hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206343f0f31b84c7280c40e27e1d1f1d7\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: How does this bill differ from the current law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6ba96d119b74c5685dda00647d6a8bc\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The current law, propagated by the present Government, applies a standard for insulation that is only at the 1978 standard and requires the installation of smoke alarms. My bill requires there to be a source of heating, requires weathertightness, requires the house to be able to be ventilated, and has a minimum standard on drainage. The Children\u2019s Commissioner described the Government\u2019s current law as shameful and said that it will do little for children living in cold, damp, mouldy homes. My bill will be a whole heap better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002279808f8c048943178c8ec062e4183d92\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224693a5ce3f2c40b6b4a2b16a0dd0e7e2\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d96ad88f2d6c4c1c9b2455187a71f1a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d96ad88f2d6c4c1c9b2455187a71f1a5\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. This is a Government that is in total disarray, and it is time that New Zealanders got better, because they deserve better. They deserve better. Ten weeks ago it was just so easy\u201410 weeks ago the Government handed down a Budget that did absolutely nothing for most New Zealanders, because this Government did not care. It did not care about housing\u2014that so many New Zealanders could not afford to buy their first home, and that so many New Zealanders were living in overcrowded housing, living in garages, and living in cars. It did not care that the Budget said nothing about health spending and did not keep pace with the changing demography of New Zealand. It did not care that the Budget froze education funding for primary and secondary schools, and froze funding for the police. It did not care about any of that. It was brazen. It was Government. It was in charge, and any Budget would do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWell, it has been a long 10 weeks. It has been a long 10 weeks. The Government thought it could get away with handing down that Budget and caressing the nation with a soothing balm of unrealistic projections and a hopeless selling job afterwards. It has not worked. New Zealanders have not bought it, because far too many New Zealanders today are missing out and being left behind. They now see a Government that has no answers, that has no plan\u2014Government members might have a few choice words to say, but they do not have a plan for the problems facing New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EYou see, when you are John Key and Bill English you do not have to worry about couples who work and work and save and save and cannot get their first home. They do not worry about them. They do not have to worry about teachers and principals who are working harder and harder to provide the education and get the time with the children that the children need, but cannot because of the overwhelming bureaucracy that they have got to complete for their schools. They just do not care about it, and they do not worry about our police force, which is struggling to meet the demands of a rapidly growing population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWhat did John Key say yesterday? Oh, they have issued them with iPads. They have issued them with iPads. That is going to help when you are faced with somebody screaming and ranting, high on P\u2014when you hold up your iPad! I hope that it is on Pok\u00E9mon GO and you can get the nearest Zubat. Is that what it is going to be? Is that what the answer is to out-of-control crime because of this Government\u2019s failure to resource the police properly? Well, I tell you what: the rest of New Zealand cares. And, of course, the Government has now discovered, because David Farrar has told it, that the rest of New Zealand cares and expects something better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo what has it been doing since the Budget? It has been panicking. It has been in an absolutely mad panic. In fairness, I have to give credit to Paula Bennett, because on the eve of the Budget she, at least, realised that something was wrong. That the biggest crises facing New Zealand, a housing crisis and a homelessness crisis\u2014she realised that there was nothing in the Budget. So she quickly, without telling Bill English and without telling anybody, announced this plan to give $5,000 to people to leave Auckland. Of course, 10 weeks on, 12 people have signed up for it. That is a start, I suppose. It will help. There are 42,000 people homeless, so to start with the first 12, I suppose, is a good step, but that is as far as they have gone. That is as far as they have gone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAnd then we see, a week after the Budget\u2014because suddenly they realised they had better do something about housing and they better do something for local government. So without consulting Nick Smith and without consulting local councils, Bill English and John Key put together this $1 billion infrastructure plan\u2014big and mighty and powerful; $1 billion dollars. They spent 3 weeks putting it together and did not tell Nick Smith until the day before they went to Cabinet. They did not tell the local councils until 2 days before they announced it so they had something to tell their conference to give the impression to their conference gathered at Wigram that they actually had something to say about housing, because up until that time they had nothing\u2014up until that time they had nothing. This has been an absolute shambles. All along the way their answer has been that they have been working on it for years. They have not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAnd what was Judith Collins\u2019 answer yesterday when, suddenly, we got the announcement that the Government has realised there are too few police for the population we have got? She said she has been working on it for months. There is nothing in the Budget. The Government froze the funding in the Budget. There is nothing in the 4-year Police plan, but she said she has been working on it for months. Clearly, she has been working in isolation. She has not told anybody. Who is she talking to these days, apart from the backbenchers? She is talking to the backbenchers to make sure she has got the numbers, is what she has been doing. That is what she has been working on\u2014nothing to do with her ministerial responsibilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders are seeing a Government that is tired, that is out of ideas. It is giving short shrift to a shonky, shady, shilly-shallying Government, and it is coming to an end now because we have a plan for housing, we have a plan for education, and we have a plan for health, and New Zealanders will see a better choice next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u00222a7cd81f943442a5b5310e32bbb1ebe7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a7cd81f943442a5b5310e32bbb1ebe7\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Well, first of all, can I just say to members of the House welcome back after a 4-week adjournment. It was kind of an unexpected pleasure over the time I have been in Parliament to have a whole 4 weeks to take a little bit of time. And is it not nice to see my colleagues coming back in such a happy, positive, ambitious-for-New Zealand frame of mind. What a contrast it provides to the nasty, bickering, angry aggression and no-hope negativity we see from the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EYou want to talk about being in disarray? Really? You want to talk about being in disarray? When we left before the adjournment we were celebrating\u2014in kind of air quotes\u2014the quickie marriage between Labour and the Greens. It was the next great coming, was it not? It was going to be this beautiful coming together of like-minded parties, and it is looking more and more like a Vegas wedding, is it not? It seemed like a great idea at the time, you rushed off to the chapel, and now it is the morning after. You are waking up, and you are wondering what the hell you have done. I have not seen a relationship fall apart so spectacularly so quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EOver the adjournment we had the Greens come out saying the best way to deal with housing is to take 50 percent off the value of everyone\u2019s house. Genius\u2014genius! Even the Labour Party knew that that one was a loser, and straight away you are seeing the commentators saying that if Labour and the Greens cannot get it together on an issue like this, how are they ever going to be able to govern? This has got to be one of the fastest marriage collapses I have ever seen. I can recommend to them, though, in the spirit of camaraderie and support, some very good Parenting Through Separation courses that the Family Court runs. We have got some excellent programmes. We have got family dispute resolution. I am sure there are ways we could help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EOf course on this side of the House the adjournment was not just a break. Actually, this is a Government that\u2014if you look back over the last 4 weeks, what an immense amount of work we have got through. And does it not demonstrate the positive, aspirational sense of the vision we have for this country and where we want to take it? I mean, you look at the work that Maggie Barry did in announcing a predator-free New Zealand. We all know it is a big goal, we know it is a tough goal, but we have got a vision for where we want to take this country\u2014and I congratulate Maggie Barry on that\u2014and we recognise that, actually, why should we not set ourselves big goals. This is a nation of innovative people who believe in solutions, who find ways, and, actually, I have got no doubt that we will get there. It will be hard, but why not stretch ourselves? Why not have a positive vision of where we want to get to? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EOver the adjournment I announced that this is a Government that has now delivered world-leading connectivity to nearly 2.5 million people already. Can I tell this House once more that is a programme that Labour voted against not once, not twice, but three times. It did not want that sort of connectivity rolled out. Now the biggest challenge for the ultra-fast broadband programme is that everybody wants it. Everybody wants it because this National-led Government under John Key and Steven Joyce, at the time, had the vision that said if we give Kiwis world-class connectivity\u2014and connectivity about which back in 2008 people said \u201CWhat a waste. No one will ever use 100-megabit speed. Who needs fibre?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWe had the vision, we set a goal, we set out to do something ambitious, and, as a result, at the end of this programme New Zealand will be the fourth-best connected country in the world behind Singapore, Korea, and Japan. Those are highly densely populated, small land masses. For New Zealand, with its 4.7 million people over a huge area of islands and mountains, that is an incredible result. When I go round the world talking to counterparts, they cannot believe what we have done. I am incredibly proud that we are delivering that sort of connectivity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EHave a look at what Craig Foss has done with the mandatory alcohol interlocks. That is fantastic. You want to talk about making a real difference to keeping New Zealanders safe on our roads? Mandatory alcohol interlocks to ensure repeat drunk drivers are not on our roads are significant. Over the adjournment we have seen significant education investments from Hekia Parata and Nikki Kaye into school redevelopment and the digital technology fund. We have seen Nikki Kaye doing some great stuff in youth mentoring and creating more opportunities for our youth. We have seen the work that Steven Joyce is doing around the second stage of the regional research institutes. Simon Bridges has been opening new roads and kicking off new cycleways. So while Labour and the Greens have been infighting and scrapping and figuring out who is going to get the kids in the divorce, we have been getting on with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI want to take a moment to talk just very quickly about the work Anne Tolley and I are doing on family violence. We have just announced today the second pilot of our integrated safety response. This is a Government that is focused on what we are going to do to make the country better, on doing it, on getting on with it. I want to be a part of a party with vision and a Government with aspiration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022565a739e215a4691945b479c31076f33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022565a739e215a4691945b479c31076f33\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E John Key and the National Party are completely out of touch with where most New Zealanders are at on immigration. Last night TV3 news ran a poll showing that 60 percent of New Zealanders think we need better control over our immigration system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EMost New Zealanders support immigration. We are a migrant nation. We are built on immigration. We are all either migrants ourselves or the descendants of migrants. So why are New Zealanders saying that National is getting it so very, very wrong on immigration? Let us listen to what people have been saying. We are not like the National Government; we will listen to what people have been saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe Deputy Governor of the Reserve Bank, Grant Spencer, said: \u201C\u2026 we cannot ignore that the 160,000 net inflow of permanent and long-term migrants over the last 3 years has generated an unprecedented increase in the population and a significant boost to housing demand.\u201D Treasury and Immigration New Zealand themselves reported that there is a significant proportion of permanent and temporary labour migrants working in lower wage occupations, and recent trends\u2014under National\u2014show a relative decline in the skill level of permanent migrants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EMichael Barnett of the Auckland Chamber of Commerce said yesterday that there is a disconnect between the skills that the immigration system is delivering and the skills that New Zealand actually needs. The ANZ Chief Executive, David Hisco, said: \u201CLet\u2019s have an honest and sensible debate about immigration using facts rather than prejudice to see if we should push the pause button.\u201D People all over New Zealand\u2014respectable people whom this Parliament should listen to\u2014are saying to this Government: \u201CYou are getting it wrong on immigration.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EMost New Zealanders question whether we have got our immigration settings right when the bulk of new migrants are going into roles like retail manager, cafe manager, and farm worker. That is not what immigration is supposed to be for; it is supposed to be for welcoming people who have the skills we need to grow our economy and contribute to our society. It is supposed to be about providing the skills that we are unable to supply from within New Zealand in the short term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EInstead, under National, immigration is being used to fill low-wage, low-skill, low-productivity jobs, and that is because some New Zealand employers say that they cannot find New Zealanders to do the job. Instead of saying to those employers: \u201CWell, why don\u2019t you offer better wages?\u201D or \u201CWhy don\u2019t you improve your working conditions?\u201D, the National Government says: \u201CHey, get someone from overseas, pay them the minimum wage\u2014or pay them less than the minimum wage if you can get away with it.\u201D It subjects them to working conditions that should not be tolerated in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EOver half of all new migrants settle in Auckland. That is a massive vote of no confidence in this Government for its failure to grow regional economies. Migrants who come to New Zealand know that under National there are not sufficient opportunities in the regions to move to the regions. The result is that Auckland\u2019s housing crisis, which is driven by a number of factors, is made even worse by the fact that that city is trying to absorb more people than it is able to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EJohn Key, Michael Woodhouse, and the rest of the National Government have their heads in the sand, because they desperately need to keep immigration numbers high. Population growth is the one thing that is generating economic growth in New Zealand. Without the current levels of immigration growth, our GDP per capita would be growing at a pathetic 0.5 percent. That is basically nothing. That is why the National Government will not do anything to get the immigration system back to doing what it should: delivering good economic outcomes for New Zealand and delivering good settlement outcomes for new migrants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is a country built on immigration, and immigration will always be an important part of our story, but National knows that it is getting it wrong on immigration. New Zealand knows that National is getting it wrong on immigration. People of experience and knowledge are telling the Government that it is getting it wrong on immigration. It is out of touch with most New Zealanders on this issue. It is just too damned arrogant to do anything about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002212ef76bc10f24ec8a6bceec3f8472c5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212ef76bc10f24ec8a6bceec3f8472c5f\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to pick up on the positive and aspirational talk that my colleague the Hon Amy Adams previously raised. This is a Government that is confident for the future of New Zealand, is aspirational for better lives for New Zealanders, and is working hard to deliver that. No more do we see that aspiration than in trying to support New Zealanders into work. We have set ourselves a target of reducing the number of people who are dependent on welfare by 25 percent. That is a very aspirational target and we are working hard to achieve that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EWhy? Because we know that being in work is good for people and their families. It is good for them economically. If you want to talk about poverty, the best way out of poverty is having a good foot on the employment rung and being able to support yourself and your family. If you want to talk about good health, we know that people benefit from being in work. If you want to talk about strong communities, it is where people are actively involved in their communities, and part of that is about being part of the workforce that is creating that community. So we are absolutely confident that we are going to achieve that 25 percent reduction in the number of people who are reliant on the welfare of their fellow New Zealanders to keep them alive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EHow are we going to do that? I just want to bring a few facts to the table about regional economic development, because this Government is out working in communities around the country, working with them to increase the amount of investment that is taking place in their communities. We know that whether it is local firms investing more or outside firms coming in and investing in those communities, investment creates employment and it creates wealth within those communities, and that is what makes our regional communities strong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThis Government has been active. We have had a plan developed in Northland that is working hard. There are a number of large opportunities for economic growth up there, and we are supporting that well, alongside local government and local businesses. The Bay of Plenty\u2014I have to say, it is my own area, which covers from \u014Cp\u014Dtiki and the East Coast right through to Tauranga down to Rotorua\u2014is an area that has worked together well over the previous 10 years, and, I tell you what, that area is pumping. It has developed a plan itself. Yes, the Government is supporting it; yes, local government is supporting it, but the business sector itself is excited. They are working together and they are looking at the opportunities that are available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EOf course, the most important for me\u2014the most important issue that we are looking at is the development of the \u014Cp\u014Dtiki aquaculture project. That is a project that has the capacity to change the lives of thousands of people living in the Eastern Bay of Plenty, one of the highest areas of deprivation in New Zealand. That project, which the Government is backing with finance and with resources, has the potential to change the lives of the people who live in the Eastern Bay of Plenty and bring considerable wealth to the country. This Government is right there working alongside them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EWe recently launched the Hawke\u2019s Bay plan. There is an East Coast regional development plan, and we have broken that into two: one in Tai R\u0101whiti, which will be released later this year; and one in Hawke\u2019s Bay, which was released during the adjournment. The most important part of that, for me, was Project 1000. Minister Flavell and I announced Project 1000 as part of the Government\u2019s commitment to the economic development of Hawke\u2019s Bay, which is to get 1,000 new jobs for unemployed Hawke\u2019s Bay people. That, again, has the potential to change the lives of thousands of families in Hawke\u2019s Bay, because we know that there are jobs. There are jobs there. When you look at the horticulture industry, it is working hard to increase its productivity, and what we are saying to it is that you cannot rely on bringing outside help; you have to be developing your own people. The greatest resource that this country has is its workforce, is its people. I am delighted to be part of a country that is supporting New Zealanders into jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb1b14c33a74478ba00129851cdc7973\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb1b14c33a74478ba00129851cdc7973\u0022\u003ERON MARK (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It is one of those days, is it not, when you come down to the House, you have got a whole bunch of speech notes and you are ready to deliver something that is prepared, and then someone stands up in the House and says something that rocks you in your shoes. That has just happened with Mr Iain Lees-Galloway\u2019s speech on immigration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ELike one of the previous members said, the adjournment time gives us the chance to get out and take stock and listen to people. We have to say, in New Zealand First, we have to say we have travelled up and down the country. From Invercargill to Auckland, I have been everywhere, and the message we are getting consistently is that the public is actually tired of the type of speech that Mr Iain Lees-Galloway just gave. They are tired of one side of the House claiming that another party in this House, whose immigration policies have always been sane, sensible, and population-focused\u2014is racist and xenophobic. Now, suddenly, on the back of a poll that Mr Iain Lees-Galloway from Labour has seen, which tells him \u201COh my gosh, 60 percent of the country agrees with the Rt Hon Winston Peters in New Zealand First that immigration policy is chaotic, is out of control.\u201D, suddenly everyone should listen to Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ELet me tell you what people are saying out there: \u201CRed or blue, there\u2019s nothing new.\u201D National and Labour are just the same. It is like Pepsi and Coke: tell me whether one can tell the difference. One comes in a blue package; the other comes in a red package, but everyone knows 90 percent of the people cannot tell the difference between Pepsi and Coke, and that is exactly what is happening right now. We do not actually care about the argument that goes on between National and Labour on who put more police here, who has got a stronger focus on law and order, or who wants to get immigration under control\u2014we see them both as exactly the same and so does most of New Zealand right now, who are all coming to that realisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWe go down to Invercargill, down to Gore, and who is filling in my meeting? It is National Party farmers, who have had a gutsful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277333e3c-5658-4149-9cad-262a0deed378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f13aa203447b406289adeae2941c67db\u0022\u003ETodd Barclay\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely no one\u2014no one is there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f62ee2ed82374da1b8aed5c1c26d9f1b\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Todd Barclay can stand up and rant but Todd Barclay should ask the listing committee of the National Party where his committee has gone. Where has his committee gone? People are looking at this Government as being no different from the last Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThen we have Mr Grant Robertson on Q\u002BA telling the whole nation the trickle-down economy does not work. Hello! Mr Robertson, if you had not realised it, it was started by the Labour Party. It was called Rogernomics, and then National picked it up and called it \u201CRuthanasia\u201D. The result was the same: devastation in the provinces and farmers out there being told they should get on and keep their chins up and handle the economic changes, whilst this Government, which trumpets free-trade agreements\u2014which the Labour Party promoted as well\u2014has done nothing to curb the excessive use of subsidies in these countries that they proudly proclaim they have established a free-trade agreement with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, you are a farmer from the Banks Peninsula and I know that you were raised like me in rural New Zealand, in the Wairarapa, and we know something that our grandparents told us a long time ago, and farmers down in Gore and down into Invercargill were telling us this as well: nothing is free\u2014nothing. Do not come into this House and trumpet \u201CRuthanasia\u201D policies or Rogernomics policies and tell us that the poor at the low end of the chain are going to benefit from that, because all the evidence shows, after 30 years of rampant neo-liberal experimentation\u2014started by the Labour Party\u2014that the gap between rich and poor is greater than it has ever been. It has actually reached the level where you may never be able to turn it back\u2014well, looking at the housing situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EBy the way, we are getting to the stage in New Zealand First where we actually think we have got a security problem, because it seems that every second day Labour is picking up one of our policies and trumpeting it as its own. The thing that disappoints us more than anything is that the media print it. We would simply ask them: \u201CIf you want the original Rolex, come to New Zealand First\u2014do not go buying a cheap, Singaporean model from the Labour Party.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00221fdaf6c137fc40dabef3c953da8997d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fdaf6c137fc40dabef3c953da8997d4\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS (Minister for Small Business):\u003C/span\u003E That previous member, Ron Mark, was very, very excitable. Amy Adams was talking about the rapid divorce between Labour and the Greens, and now we are seeing New Zealand First versus Labour. I do not know what is going on over there. But the Labour purge has begun\u2014the Labour purge has begun. Far be it from me to defend a Labour MP, but why is the Leader of the Opposition, Andrew Little, picking on a fellow Hawke\u2019s Bay MP Stuart Nash\u2014the vast, rabid right-winger Stuart Nash, apparently. What is going on over there in Labour? Why does he not pick on Mr Shearer? Why does he not pick on Mr O\u2019Connor? What is wrong with Mr Nash? Is it because Mr Nash is secretly supportive of the Trans-Pacific Partnership? Is it because he has actually won a seat\u2014even though he took it off National; we will get it back\u2014when Mr Little has not? What is going on? The purge has begun. No longer is free speech a choice, an option, within the Labour Party or its recent members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003ENational has been very, very busy throughout this recent adjournment. We just continued where we left off all the way through, and we continue right now. As previous members have said, during the adjournment we launched Matariki: Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Economic Development Strategy and Action Plan 2016. Absolutely, for the first time ever, all of the Hawke\u2019s Bay councils are aligned in agreement\u2014all of the councils. The regional council, iwi, business, and central government are aligned with an action plan, and a strategy to grow jobs, to help realise potential, and to help the mighty Hawke\u2019s Bay help itself. Funnily enough, that plan was praised and supported by Mr Nash. Perhaps that is why Mr Little is not supporting his own MP. That plan, Matariki, in Hawke\u2019s Bay, as Minister Anne Tolley just said includes Project 1000\u20141,000 new jobs for people on some kind of assistance from the taxpayer to help grow the horticultural industry, and a $25 million investment in core transport infrastructure to help goods and produce get to the Port of Napier and to make our roads safer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EHow will that produce come about? Schemes such as the Ruataniwha Water Storage Scheme will help that. Free-trade agreements are helping the demand for that produce to get to that port. As well as that, there are 45 action points\u2014I have been on the road over the last 4 weeks with the small business roadshow. Out of Wellington, out of the central business district, and in provincial rural New Zealand\u2014in the heartbeat of small business, semi-commercial areas\u2014we have had businesses coming and listening and learning about all the tools available to them that this Government has put in place to share with them to help enable them to be all they can be within their business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EWe have business.govt.nz showing those who turn up, in outstanding numbers, the portal for businesses to engage with government. We have a demonstration of the New Zealand Business Number, which this Government put in place and is implementing to help businesses communicate once\u2014have one door to communicate\u2014with government on whatever it might be. We have the Inland Revenue Department at those meetings explaining the tax transformation and the changes in provisional tax. Would you believe that the Inland Revenue Department gets a round of applause at these various meetings from hard-working small-business owners? We have ACC doing a presentation, talking about some of the plans available to small-business owners, and single shareholder-operator businesses, which can help them and provide certainty to them. We have Statistics New Zealand showing where data, where information can be found to assist businesses learn more about not only their competitors but their potential markets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EWe have the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade there, advising on free-trade agreements and tariff situations in various markets. We have WorkSafe in there, explaining to businesses they do not need to spend a whole lot of money to buy an expensive programme. Actually, they can work with WorkSafe and they will find themselves saving a whole of money. We have the Digital Journey people there. We have the labour inspectorate there, pointing out to small businesses that they can download, for free, an employment agreement written by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment to help make them safe and to save them funds, time, and resources. And, of course, we have regional business partners talking about the Callaghan Institute and how to access it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThis Government is positive. It is united. We are not going after each other like the Labour Party members are now doing. We are continuing the hard work, the focus to help enable New Zealand to be all it can be, and I am proud to be part of that team.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u00229e18af974adb44e2841aa3b781c7f7c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e18af974adb44e2841aa3b781c7f7c8\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E There are 60,000 new New Zealanders every year for whom we do not do enough. These 60,000 are a diffuse group. They have no clear spokesperson or organisation backing them. Some of them are living in very inadequate housing, others are subject to all sorts of assaults and vile abuse, and yet no one speaks up for them. It is time we changed our attitude. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EBefore the xenophobes and the bigots start to rise to the bait, let me say that I am talking about the number of children born in New Zealand each year: 60,000 new New Zealanders. Those young New Zealanders have no choice about the circumstances of their birth or the nature of their upbringing, but we owe it to them to provide them with all of the wherewithal to enjoy a fruitful and prosperous life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ESadly, as the core of our future, they often get overlooked in the debates that take place in this Chamber, and for that reason I welcome the initiative taken last week by Judge Caroline Henwood and Sir Mark Solomon to launch a covenant for our nation\u2019s children. I want to share with the House a couple of statements from that covenant, because I think they go to the heart of the concern and the focus that we as a Parliament ought to have upon the future of our children: \u201CWe the people of Aotearoa New Zealand make a solemn and enduring covenant with our nation\u2019s children, whoever they are and wherever they may be, in equal measure, those children who are born and those born in the future. We as New Zealanders undertake an unconditional duty to do all in our power to ensure that all our children are treasured, respected and enjoy a good life full of opportunity in a nation that is diverse and rich in culture and aroha.\u201D There can be no more profound statement about the functions that we seek to perform than a commitment to the children as the future of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EAround 24 percent of our population is under the age of 18. Just under 70 percent of our young people are lucky enough to be brought up in a two-parent household. Just under 20 percent are raised by a single parent or in other groupings. As I said, those children do not choose the circumstances of their birth, but every child has an equal right to access to opportunity in this country, every child has an equal right to access to quality healthcare and education, every child has a right to good housing and good prospects in life, and our challenge\u2014and that is what the covenant recognises\u2014is to focus our efforts afresh on delivering those policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI am conscious of the work that my colleague to my left, the Minister for Social Development, is doing in the area to try to bring children to the centre of Government policy-making, and I applaud that. I welcome it, but it is a long-overdue initiative. But the important point about it is that by focusing on our children, we then start to focus on the nature of our families, our communities, and all of the support and other systems within those communities that enable people to function effectively. We do not have isolated debates, as we do today, about housing provision, law and order, or migration. They are all connected into a focal point of saying \u201CLet\u2019s serve the interests of our children because they are our future.\u201D, and, therefore, we can put all other policies through the prism of how they affect children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI noticed last week when the covenant was released that there was a rather large measure of silence to greet it. I would have expected in the quiet of the adjournment more passion from politicians, who profess concern about our country\u2019s future, to get in behind this charter because it provides a way forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EWhat we are seeing around the world now is a reaction to the sort of \u201CUp you!\u201D politics that the Trumpists and their acolytes in this country are seeking to follow. In Britain, under the former Liberal Democrats leader Paddy Ashdown, a More United movement\u2014that is what it is called\u2014has been developed, with the express aim of supporting moderate, progressive politicians across the political spectrum to stamp out extremism and focus on the real issues. Our children are our most basic real issue. It is time we focused afresh upon their needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5d4a73df8414896a3ef6bab93713ac1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5d4a73df8414896a3ef6bab93713ac1\u0022\u003ESARAH DOWIE (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to make a contribution in this general debate in support of the Government\u2014a Government that is sensible, a Government that is unified, and a Government that is stable and is delivering for all New Zealanders. As part of that, it has economic growth forecast at 2.4 percent, unemployment forecast to drop to 5.2 percent, and it is bringing Crown debt down to 20 percent of GDP by 2020. Is it any wonder that we are the envy of the OECD? We certainly are, through our stable management, the envy of the OECD in a world in which some of our larger, more traditionally stable democracies are facing some incredible turmoil, and New Zealand is leading the way in stability and growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EI want to take the time to address some statistics with regard to me being a regional MP and leading the anchor state of this country\u2014Southland. There was a Northerner\u2014a member opposite\u2014who addressed this House last night and claimed that Southland was in recession. My goodness, if producing 14 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total export receipts is being in recession, then she must be a monkey\u2019s uncle. If an employment rate of 74 percent\u2014when the national average is 65 percent\u2014is not doing well, then I do not know what is. Yes, we can acknowledge that dairy is volatile at this stage. In fact, it has dropped in our export statistics from 32 percent to 26 percent. But tourism is up, and we are still boxing economically above our weight for New Zealand\u2014producing, I say again, 14 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total export receipts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EWhy is that? I am very proud to be a regional MP in this Government because this is a Government that is looking at the economy as a whole, and is providing initiatives to help grow the regions. We are looking at capitalising on our strengths, and we are diversifying our markets and diversifying our economy further. How are we doing that? We are investing $2 billion in ultra-fast broadband to connect our businesses to the rest of the world so that they can easily make connections and easily do business and get into new markets and stabilise their existing markets. That is so important in places like Southland where we are removed from larger centres. But look, you have got lower overheads in Southland and you are connected\u2014and so you can do business, and do business well, from anywhere in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EI also want to talk about the potential in Southland. I recently came back from a trip to Norway\u2014a conference that celebrated the success of aquaculture and best practice. I learnt about best practice in aquaculture and what it can produce\u2014jobs, revenue, and money for its people and for families in Norway. Southland has been signalled as a potential place to grow aquaculture, through our strategic group, our Southland Regional Development Strategy (SoRDS) Group, which is leading the charge there. But the Government has come in behind the SoRDS Group and behind Ng\u0101i Tahu, and the Ministry for Primary Industries is leading some research to look at the viability of sites around the Southland coast to increase our share of aquaculture. At the moment we produce 20 percent of New Zealand\u2019s aquaculture, and we believe that we have the natural climatic advantages and the environmental advantages to be able to expand that. The statistics at the moment are that for every hectare of aquaculture, for finfish, you are producing about 20 jobs and about $20 million worth of revenue. Southland wants a slice of that. Southland wants to capitalise on that. Southland wants to grow with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003ESouthland is doing well. We are not in recession. We box above our weight. The northern member of the Opposition from Dunedin should realise that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022eef93b2393ed4292a8032da8ddebb8f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eef93b2393ed4292a8032da8ddebb8f8\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Huri noa ki t\u0113nei Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Today is my first day back in the House after the adjournment. I stayed in Auckland yesterday for my appearance on the Native Affairs live panel last night, shot at Te Puea Marae in M\u0101ngere. This is the marae that has been helping families into homes. I am sitting here, listening to all of these speeches, particularly from National benches, and I wish that this House and the members in it were not so disconnected from the realities of New Zealanders and the hardships that families are facing at this very time. I have had to sit here and listen to members, such as the honourable Minister Amy Adams saying that it is nasty, negative, and no-hope discussion when the real issues are brought to members\u2019 attention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI wish the Minister had come to the Native Affairs live panel last night and listened to the likes of the social service providers, such as Hurimoana Dennis, Darryl Evans, and Ian Hutson of the Salvation Army, of M\u0101ngere Budgeting Services, and of Te Puea Marae, who were absolutely the opposite of nasty, negative, and no hope. They were simply talking with calm, with reason, with insight, and with wisdom about the years of work they have done at the front line and the realities that they and many other social service providers are facing\u2014realities that happened and are happening to our country because of mismanagement by this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ETo listen in the House today, in question time, to our Prime Minister harp on about the record number of houses being built without mentioning the record figures of homelessness that we are now having to face is an absolute farce. Some of those people are working. Some of those families are in paid employment. I also had to listen to Minister Tolley talking about how being in employment is the solver of all the issues. Some of those people who are living in vans, cramped in homes, and squashed in garages are in paid employment. Nurses, teachers, and police are finding it hard to live in Auckland. That is OK\u2014should we just say that Auckland is not for nurses, Auckland is not for police, and Auckland is not for teachers? Their salaries are not enough to keep up the pace of what houses\u2014[Interruption] Yeah, look at me like that. I do not mind. I will look at you straight back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EAuckland should be for everybody. I have had to sit in this House at question time today and listen to the Prime Minister refer to poverty as \u201Ca great range of financial situations in this country.\u201D That is how our Prime Minister has defined poverty. The absolute minimum that we should expect, no matter the great range of financial situations, is that every tamariki, every mokopuna, every wh\u0101nau, and every person should have a warm, safe, affordable, and secure home to live in. If we do not start there, then you are in denial\u2014and that is how the Prime Minister and his Government have not answered all the questions today, and many before. Every time they are caught out, every time they are having to face and confront what their Government has failed in, they try to blame it on someone else, or they will talk about something else, or they will talk about something else from the past. They cannot answer directly and confront and face exactly what is happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThis is why they did not want to support the inquiry into homelessness. Labour, the Greens, and the M\u0101ori Party are not afraid to confront the truth and are working together, across the country, to face the issues. We are not afraid of being accountable. I have had to sit here today, and I wish the members in this House were not so disconnected from what is happening to ordinary people who are not even as angry as I am. They are calm. They are doing the best they can. They are remaining and struggling and doing the best that they can. I wish all of us were accountable. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0a4dbf44a274ba29acdf3a5e9a10dd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0a4dbf44a274ba29acdf3a5e9a10dd6\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E Can I just say that it is wonderful to come back here, after 4 weeks of being away, and be able to pick up exactly where it was that we left off, which is being a part of a party that is governing at the moment, that is very positive, that has a lot of energy, and that is doing some great things for New Zealand. Often you get these accusations made about Governments being in their third term. People will accuse third-term Governments of lacking new ideas or lacking energy. But this Government is far from that. Right across the board, in fact\u2014socially, environmentally, and economically\u2014we have got hard-working Ministers and people within the party who are generating new ideas. They are facing up to the issues that New Zealand is confronted with, taking us to where we need to invest more in order to deliver better results, and making those investments, making those calls. Budget 2016 is an example of that. Right across the board, as I said\u2014socially, environmentally, and economically\u2014this is a balanced Government that is doing things right across the whole gamut.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003ECan I start in the social sphere. Budget 2016 saw $652 million extra being invested back into the social investment package, of which $348 million was to boost spending for our most vulnerable young people. We are committed to ensuring that the vulnerable young people of New Zealand will not be left behind, that they will get better treatment from the Government going forward than they have ever had before. That is why we are investing money up front. That is why we are taking our social investment strategy to new lengths\u2014to ensure that those who are likely to have the poorest long-term outcomes in their lives have that turned around through early intervention and through early investment, to ensure that we are going to deliver a better New Zealand for those New Zealanders. Our results are starting to speak for themselves, and we are moving forward with that strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EOn the environmental front, we are also making great inroads. For example, the recent announcement of being predator-free in New Zealand by 2050\u2014a bold, ambitious environmental goal that we are setting for New Zealand, one that I am sure everyone will buy into and support. It is another great announcement from the Government, and one that will be backed up, I am sure, by community groups, the private sector, and the Government itself as we move forward towards that goal. We are investing in the environment, in terms of rivers, with an extra $100 million that has been put up for river clean-up funds. We have seen the benefit of previous funding that has gone in, particularly in the Manawat\u016B, where I live, where, with the help of Government funding working alongside community groups, over the last 5 years 120,000 plants have been planted alongside the Manawat\u016B River and its tributaries, and 208 kilometres of fencing has been put in to help improve the Manawat\u016B River. I know that is something that the local people around there are very concerned about. This Government is concerned about those issues as well. On the environmental front we are making progress as no other Government in New Zealand has ever made before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EFinally, what is often talked about as being one of the most critical parts is the economy. We are making fantastic progress and inroads in that area as well. We are continuing to be forward-thinking and to look at new ways to boost our economy, and we are seeing a more diverse economy as a result. The extra $700 million - odd that has been invested into the Innovative New Zealand package is going to be felt right around the country\u2014in particular, as I said, in the Manawat\u016B, where I come from. That money is going to make a big difference in helping to boost our development and research institutes and the jobs that go along with them. On Friday the Manawat\u016B-Whanganui regional growth plan is going to be unveiled in Whanganui. I am looking forward to the announcements that are coming through from that. I do not want to steal the Minister\u2019s thunder, in terms of the things that are going to be announced, but I am absolutely excited by what I see as the investment by this Government into local regional economies to ensure that we will create more jobs. We will create a better future for people who are living in provincial New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003ERight across the board, as I said\u2014socially, environmentally, and economically\u2014this Government is moving New Zealand forward and is going to take us to better places in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u002267111e5fa75e4ccca15c7318eac8ccd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267111e5fa75e4ccca15c7318eac8ccd5\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. Firstly, can I thank you, because over the adjournment we were privileged to host Youth Parliament. I would like to extend my appreciation\u2014I think all the young people whom I have engaged with had a thoroughly good time, and that was because of the management of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ECan I also acknowledge that yesterday was the International Day of the World\u2019s Indigenous People, and so I mihi to all the indigenous communities around the world, and there is a particular focus this year on education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EToday, for me, is going to be a lot of thankyous. I would also like to thank Dame Diane Robertson, who has moved on as the Auckland City Missioner, and in her place we welcome Chris Farrelly. So I say kia kaha to Chris, because one of the first pieces of research that he has contributed to the discussion around homelessness in our community was a press release dated 7 June 2016. So between 2014 and 2016 we have had a 55 percent increase in the number of homeless people in Auckland; these are those living within 3 kilometres of Skycity tower. In the last 2 years we have had an extra 81 people whom the Auckland City Mission, with a whole lot of collaborators, has identified as homeless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI would also like to take this opportunity to congratulate Judge Andrew Becroft as our new Children\u2019s Commissioner. I think he has started his tenure on an incredibly powerful platform. And what is that platform? That platform is actually not only being an advocate for children but being an advocate in terms of enabling us, as a society, as New Zealanders, to contribute and to participate in what is a very, very important discussion. Should the Ministry for Children be the Ministry for Vulnerable Children, which is incredibly stigmatising, or should it actually be a ministry that is going to provide for the needs and aspirations, not only of our children but of our wh\u0101nau? And I leave you with this: vulnerable means to be exposed to harm, whether it be physical or emotional. And so if the Minister and that Government want to tar children who are going to use the services of this new children\u2019s ministry with that term \u201Cvulnerable\u201D, then let them address all the exposures to harm, both emotional and physical, to ensure that our children actually grow up in an environment where they can thrive. I agree with our Children\u2019s Commissioner that labelling them as vulnerable is not the best way to start that journey or that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ECan I also thank Te Puea Marae, who, over the 10 weeks of its opening, has provided accommodation to 156 people. Included in those people have been 83 children. So Te Puea Marae has acted as, I guess, a conduit between those who are living on the streets, living at the marae, to now having accommodation. So I want to mihi to all the leadership at Te Puea Marae for actually putting their hands up and saying \u201CWe care, and we care enough to assist wh\u0101nau who are in crisis.\u201D, and then actually following through and making sure they have somewhere to live. Nineteen people still live there and the marae will continue to support those people until they all find accommodation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThey have now passed the baton on to my marae, the Manurewa Marae, who will take registrations on Monday from 9.30 a.m. They have the capacity to provide for 146 people and in addition to that they have got five Portacom homes that are for women and children. I do not know whether the Government is funding them. I have got no idea but I would hope that it is, because an initiative like this, which is community driven, deserves to be supported by any reasonable, caring, compassionate Government. Our marae will be serviced by volunteers. I want to mihi to Rowandale School in my electorate. They have put their hands up because they will be there on a roster. They need people who can provide breakfast, lunch, and dinner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo to our wh\u0101nau and communities throughout South Auckland who care enough to not just talk about things but to actually do things, I want to acknowledge your leadership and say thank you on behalf of this Parliament for doing something to meet the needs of those who are most vulnerable, and to say thank you for continuing to ensure that no one is left behind. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00228c6c4e7dd2204027b4360a4f03ff5c1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c6c4e7dd2204027b4360a4f03ff5c1f\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E In the late 1960s and early 1970s, I had the privilege on Sunday mornings of listening to the Radio New Zealand children\u2019s programme. That is where I first heard of Flick the Little Fire Engine, Little Toot, Diana and the Golden Apples. Today I want to model my contribution on one of those stories\u2014The Soldier\u2019s Deck of Cards. It is a story about a soldier who in front of a court martial conveyed his beliefs with all that he had at the time\u2014a pack of cards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESo, today, this pack of cards in my hand is my Hansard. This pack of cards is my Speakers\u2019 Rulings and my policy notes. When I look at the ace, I see a representation of the best, the finest, the highest level\u2014a serve that cannot be returned. And this reminds me of the Government\u2019s front bench\u2014the best, the first, the highest level\u2014serving up the Opposition with a serve that cannot be returned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EWhen I look at the two, I am reminded of the $2 billion in the 2016 health budget\u2014$28 million of that to the Northland District Health Board. You know, when I first worked there we had nine resident medical officers\u2014today there are 90. The workforce has expanded and continues to expand under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe three is a tragic reminder of the number of Labour leaders who have held office while this Government has been in office. The clubs are how they were dispensed; they clubbed each other to death. The diamonds are why: their \u201Ctwinkle twinkle\u201D, pie-in-the-sky policies. Their hearts\u2014they had no heart, no love for each other, that is for sure. And this card shows how they were buried\u2014with spades. The deck tells the story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EWhen I come to the four, five, and six, it takes me to Sunday, 20 December last year, 456 days since a stunning 2014 election\u2014a stunning election. Over those 456 days, this Government has given New Zealanders free under-13 childcare, reduced ACC levels, and benefit increases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe seventh is the day of rest, but not for this Government\u2014we are hard workers. We do not rest. We have completed an endless number of bills through their third readings\u2014the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill, a building amendments bill, Te Piri m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori, and many others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe eight and the nine, well, that is the number of emails I have received lately\u201489\u2014from the people in Portland who are awfully glad to be receiving a roundabout either on Loop Road North or Loop Road South, which will facilitate logging trucks off State Highway 1. They are also very grateful for the $25 million of new roading funding from Toetoe Road to Springfield. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThis takes us to the face cards\u2014the jack, the queen, and the king. This Government will face the tough issues. Te Ture Whenua is a tough issue, foreign fighters are a tough issue, Auckland housing is a tough issue, and this Government will face them all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, that leaves just one, the joker\u2014and I will leave it to the House to decide who and what party that is. But let me give you the attributes of the joker. The joker is very old\u2014the joker first appeared in a pack of cards in 1860. It is usually depicted as the jester, with diminished capabilities, and the joker is frequently also known as the wild card\u2014unpredictable, unstable, and unsuitable to follow the usual rules. Again, I will leave it to the imagination of the House as to whom this applies. Today this pack of cards is my Hansard and my policy notes, and I look forward to filling out the rest of the cards. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd7cada41eeb4b0c81c50a24b4306342\u0022\u003ERoyal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind Act Repeal Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a082ae751a842929a4c76c63c90989e\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002286aa5c04741347358a87e8ffd2193370\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286aa5c04741347358a87e8ffd2193370\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the Committee for all of the clauses in the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind Act Repeal Bill to be taken as one debate and voted on separately at the end of that debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c36dbb7b16d641b68c5b974181f1e58d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c36dbb7b16d641b68c5b974181f1e58d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220f002ce22e2742b0b85e1e91bc9ed027\u0022\u003EPreamble and clauses 1 to 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00229cccaa46a7ae4b22bdba5e5251d0aedb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cccaa46a7ae4b22bdba5e5251d0aedb\u0022\u003EPOTO WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E In the absence of any other takers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6cc4bcc4edf4496b2fe7e92f30a5099\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: You were up so quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c51d36eef247c7bfcc36ec1cb5bb2f\u0022\u003EPOTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I know. I rise to take a call on the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind Act Repeal Bill. I refer to the four clauses of the bill and the importance of each of these clauses to ensuring that the Foundation of the Blind\u2014or, as it is now known, the Blind Foundation\u2014can continue to meet the purpose for which it has been designed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EWhat is important about the title clause, clause 1, is that it gives the Blind Foundation the ability to now ensure that its legal structure and its status within the community is fit for purpose for the work that it needs to do. The title of the bill is the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind Act Repeal Bill, and what it will, in effect, do is repeal the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind Act 2002 because of the need for the foundation to become an incorporated society. The need for the foundation to become an incorporated society is for the status and the conditions that sit around incorporated societies, which means they act for members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EIt is a membership organisation, and that is really important to the Blind Foundation because it is an organisation that is not only for members but actually has a governance structure that is completely staffed by people who are either blind or have low vision. It is an organisation that is completely based on the needs of people who are blind and have low vision, including its governance structure, so everything it does as an organisation is for people who are blind and have low vision. It is a completely inclusive organisation. It actually demonstrates some of the best elements of that phrase that is often quoted in the disability sector: \u201CNothing about us without us.\u201D This is an organisation that is completely inclusive, completely membership based, and knows what needs to be in place for members of our community who are blind and have low vision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EWhy is that important? It is about being able to design facilities and services for people who are blind and have low vision, because you know exactly what you need. It is about being completely member-driven, knowing exactly what members need. It is what we would like to be as a society\u2014completely inclusive for people who are blind and have low vision. The foundation has been set up to ensure that a couple of things happen: that people who find themselves in a situation where they become blind or are born with the condition are able to access appropriate services and have the type of equipment that people use. We all know about guide dogs, and we are all completely supportive of fund-raising efforts by the Blind Foundation to ensure that it continues to have those resources to provide services to its members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EIt is also about communication and ensuring that what we might take for granted\u2014the ability not only to communicate with each other but to communicate effectively with members outside of the blind community\u2014is in place. That includes things like access to Braille, and it also includes things like access to audio descriptors. I know that many of our free-to-air television shows have audio descriptors as part of the programming for people with low vision, but all of our pay TV and many of those things that we take for granted\u2014like being able to access and see the Olympics or the top rugby games\u2014do not have audio descriptors attached to them. So, just in the passage of this bill, I want to advocate on behalf of the Blind Foundation. There is a way for us to go for people with low vision and with issues around blindness to actually have access to the kinds of things that we take for granted, and audio description of television programmes is just one of those things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EClause 4 talks about the consequential amendment to the Copyright (General Matters) Regulations\u2014in particular, regulation 5. That is around ensuring that the names of the associations with access to any of the publications that are produced in Braille are within the purview of that particular regulation. But in that regard I also want to make a plea around the Government\u2019s response to the Marrakesh VIP Treaty. What that will do is allow greater access for publications that are in Braille to be imported into New Zealand, and for the blind community to have access to those publications. I understand that the Government is willing; I just want to ensure that we just gently encourage it to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI also want to encourage the Government to seek out the two\u2014at least two, I believe\u2014other nations that need to sign up to this treaty for it to become something that we will ratify, so I would really encourage this Government to think about that. It is a small but very significant matter, particularly for the Blind Foundation. It has been advocating for a long time for the ratification of this particular treaty. I think, as we are passing this bill through the Committee, it is an appropriate time for us to discuss the issues that will make communication for people with low vision and with issues of blindness a little easier for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI thank the Minister for bringing this bill to the House. I want to thank the Blind Foundation for all of its hard work, for its service to the community, and also for raising matters in the wider disability context. I look forward to ensuring that this bill passes its third reading. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022a26f5efb30754555ab7b0534bb39bd81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a26f5efb30754555ab7b0534bb39bd81\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak in this Committee stage of the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind Act Repeal Bill. Can I begin by acknowledging the Minister in the chair, the Hon Nicky Wagner. This private bill that we are debating is in her name, and, as I have mentioned in a few prior contributions, I think it is quite apt, not only because of her own passion for the subject but because of the fact that she is the Minister responsible for these areas\u2014not just, of course, for the blind, but for other people with a variety of disabilities. This is a very simple bill, as has clearly been indicated today by the request that we deal with this as one debate. The provisions themselves are relatively simple, and I will touch on some of those in this speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut I think what is really important to stress, and it is somewhat brought out in the bill\u2014in its general policy statement in the explanatory note, and so on\u2014is the purpose. The purpose is, in fact, far more important and symbolic than just the words themselves. This is the desire of the Royal Foundation of the Blind to take control, if you will, of its own destiny and its own work. The very purpose of this bill is to remove the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind off the statute book. It is probably not appropriate in the Committee stage\u2014and we are not going to go through all the history of the bill and why it is here\u2014but the reason we have clause 3 is to repeal our Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind Act 2002. This is to allow the foundation to now act as an incorporated society for its members and supporters\u2014those who are blind and those with low vision or vision impairment\u2014to be able to control their own destiny, and, ultimately, to send a very strong signal, as all parts of this bill do, that the statutory requirements are no longer needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAs you will imagine, the title itself is very simple\u2014really just indicating what this is all about. I will point out\u2014maybe it is just my love of semantics\u2014it is very unusual to have the words \u201CAct\u201D and \u201Cbill\u201D in the same place. That is important. The legislation is going to come into immediate effect once it receives Royal assent, as is pointed out in clause 2. There was no great debate in the Health Committee around any of these clauses. We know that the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind is working quite hard to prepare the transition; therefore, no transition elements were needed. Clause 3 is again a very simple statement\u2014a simple repeal here of the previous Act of 2002. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe foundation itself has been around\u2014I think, since 1908 if memory serves me right; the Minister will be able to clarify that for me a bit later\u2014for about 126 years. I think last year it celebrated its 125th anniversary. I think in 1908 the original legislation was put in place. As former speakers have pointed out, there is a consequential amendment around copyright regulations from 1995\u2014we have just been really clear about that. I suppose in this Committee stage we want to be really clear that, although we have brought this to the Committee with no amendments in our report\u2014the bill went through the select committee and was passed unanimously with no amendments\u2014it is not indicative of not having done anything. I know that is almost a triple negative in a series of words there, but the committee was actually very careful to go through this bill to ensure it clearly reached its intentions. Importantly too, it became an opportunity\u2014and I thought it was quite important; we have not been able to note it in the clauses, rightly but unfortunately\u2014for the wider discussion that was had with representatives of the foundation to understand some of the wider issues that are affecting those who are blind or with low vision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EUltimately, through all these clauses, and by allowing the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind to become an incorporated society, the foundation is going to be able to continue to pursue its agenda and lobbying. I am very conscious of this insofar as 2 weeks ago, in my own area back up in Auckland, I had a good opportunity to go and meet with representatives, not only to talk though what was happening with the bill but, importantly, to hear the issues that they have. The previous speaker, Poto Williams, was elucidating one of them around the Marrakesh treaty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe other issue, which I think is important to note, and which is going to come out of this bill, is around what was debated here in the Youth Parliament. It is around accessibility. I know\u2014for the foundation, and those listening\u2014that was well heard here, and I acknowledge my own youth MP who spoke very passionately on it. The foundation has a range of activities it wants to pursue and continue to pursue, and accessibility\u2014or the mock bill that the Youth Parliament had\u2014is just one example of them. This bill has four clauses\u2014four very simple clauses. It does not even take more than half a page, but that is not symbolic of the larger work, if you will, that the foundation undertakes and wants to continue to undertake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAs I say, the Health Committee did spend a good amount of time on this. We gave it all due consideration. What it seeks to do has been very clearly articulated, and so we are very pleased to return here to the Committee stage, and look forward to any further contributions. Along with my colleague on the committee Poto Williams, I am very much looking forward to a third reading and progressing the bill further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u00227bfe1074a3c142749cae5801b75d1d3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bfe1074a3c142749cae5801b75d1d3e\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (Minister for Disability Issues):\u003C/span\u003E It will be a celebration, the day that this bill passes. The Blind Foundation, in numerous iterations, has been working in New Zealand, supporting and working with blind people, for over 126 years. I think most of us know where the original Blind Foundation buildings are in Parnell\u2014enormous brick buildings. In those days there was a residential facility. There was a sheltered workshop. There was a whole lot of support, where people lived on the place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI think that really reflects the changes that have happened in disability over those 126 years. Originally the organisation was named \u201Cfor the Blind\u201D. It was all about looking after people who could not manage in the real world and had to live in a sequestered regime in residential places in a place where ordinary New Zealanders did not come very often. I think it is really incumbent and actually a real celebration for this organisation that it can come to this stage where it is now becoming an incorporated society of the blind. It is no longer \u201Cfor\u201D the blind; it is \u201Cof\u201D the blind. It is about people who are blind or who have low-vision impairments who can live a life as any other New Zealander does, who can have more choice and more control over their lives. If you look at the history of the 126 years, you can see how that has changed. I do think we need to pay tribute to the organisation for advocating for that change, for cannibalising its own organisation in the beginning and becoming a truly empowering organisation for blind people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ERight now the services that the Blind Foundation provides are to support people so that they can live a full life, to make sure that they can make the most of every opportunity that New Zealanders have in this country. I think we have had some mention of technology today. Interestingly enough, the blind community has always been good at taking up innovation. After all, Braille was one of those early technologies that allowed blind people to live lives as close as possible to ordinary New Zealanders in terms of reading and in terms of communication. Now we are seeing some fantastic new software and computerware that blind people can use to support them in the adoption of technology; the foundation is very strong in that area. There is a famous bit of software called Job Access With Speech (JAWS). It is fascinating because they use it in terms of software and computing. What it does is it reads words aloud really, really fast. You and I probably would not pick up the speed of the reading, but blind people are attuned to JAWS, and they can speed it up. It is fascinating to watch them using that technology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThere have been several turning points along the line because the legislation has changed, but the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind Act 2002 was a turning point because that allowed the foundation the opportunity to become an incorporated society. Even though it took until 2012 for it to do that, it opened the door for it to take that control over its organisation. It was also the time that it changed the name to the Royal New Zealand Foundation \u201Cof\u201D the Blind, rather than \u201Cfor\u201D the blind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI think that this repealing is particularly important. It is important not only because it has given the organisation the opportunity to highlight in Parliament the work it has done, but also because it wants to make it very clear that there is no confusion between having a statute and giving it the independence going forward. I think that the fact that it is now totally on its own, controlling its own destiny, looking after its sector, and being completely independent of Parliament is a really positive move. So I would like to say thank you to the organisation. Thank you for providing those services for 126 years. I would like to thank the select committee for the work that it has done to get to this stage. Finally, I would like to say kia kaha to the organisation for the next 126 years. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EPreamble agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EClause 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b1888f0197cb4b379abf9593feca043e\u0022\u003EMinimum Wage (Contractor Remuneration) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d6e7a77d6aaf45afad6058075429a347\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2ff7fd76a2d4b3e9f8543df6b1e9207\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2ff7fd76a2d4b3e9f8543df6b1e9207\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Hon David Parker (Labour): I move, That the Minimum Wage (Contractor Remuneration) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. The purpose of this bill is quite straightforward: it is to ensure that everybody working in New Zealand has the right to receive the minimum wage. Everybody in New Zealand who is an employee has that right, along with various other employment rights that are secured for them in the Employment Relations Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EHowever, a large number of people who are working in New Zealand do not enjoy the benefits of the rights conferred upon them under that legislation because they are engaged as contractors, not as employees. We are seeing an increasing use of contracting relationships and an increasing number of people who fall into the category of dependent contractor\u2014that being someone who is, for all intents and purposes by law, a contractor, but who actually receives the bulk of their income from one principal. In other words, they are more or less in an employment relationship; however, for the purposes of the law they are in a contractual relationship. Those people are not entitled to a minimum wage. Despite the fact that they may be working 5 days a week or in a regular pattern of work, and receiving all of their income from one employer, they are not entitled to the minimum wage. A large number of people, particularly in more precarious forms of work, such as the delivery of flyers and newspapers, in particular, actually find themselves receiving remuneration that works out at considerably lower than the minimum wage\u2014particularly after their costs are accounted for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to confer on those workers the same rights as people who are employed in employment agreements that are regulated by the Employment Relations Act. As the Labour Party\u2019s minority view outlines, there are two options for how to proceed here. One is to legislate protections for a subset of contractors called dependent contractors, including as to minimum remuneration; and the second is to legislate to apply minimum remuneration to contracted workers, not just to employees. This bill takes the second approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe heard a range of submissions. A number of submitters were in support of our approach, a number of submitters were in support of the concept but urged us to take another approach, and then there were submitters who were simply opposed to the approach altogether. As a result of that, the member in charge of this bill, the Hon David Parker, and Opposition members on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee did ask for a number of amendments to be drafted, which they were. Unfortunately, the committee chose not to adopt those amendments, because the committee was voting the bill down. Often, committees will decide to improve a bill\u2014regardless of whether they are going to recommend that the bill proceed or not. Unfortunately, in this case the committee chose to vote those amendments down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ESo we propose to bring those amendments, by Supplementary Order Paper, should this bill proceed to the Committee stage. I say to members who are contemplating how they are going to vote at this second reading that I know that for some who supported the bill to select committee that was as far as their commitment went, and that they are reconsidering their vote after the select committee stage. I say to those members that because we were not able to bring the amended legislation back to the House, please send this bill on to the Committee of the whole House so that we can have a debate with the whole Parliament about those amendments, and consider your vote then\u2014at the Committee stage\u2014and, potentially, at the third reading stage. If you are still not sure where you want to land on this, please send the bill to the Committee of the whole House, because there is more work to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI would like to quickly go through some of the amendments that we proposed. First of all, we would like to clarify to whom the bill would apply. A new clause 6 would insert definitions in section 2 of the principal Act. We would recommend some amendments to make the definitions clearer. We would recommend amending the term \u201Cspecified person\u201D to \u201Cspecified contractor\u201D throughout the bill. We believe this would make it clearer as to whom the bill applies to, and would help the public in understanding this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis bill is intended to apply to companies only where the company consists of a single person as a shareholder and director who personally provides the specified service. For clarity, we would recommend amending the definition to specify that the bill would apply only where such a person provides the service exclusively\u2014that is, not simply in a managerial capacity alongside employees. We believe that this intention is not fully clear in the bill as it was introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThere are some technical changes we would like to make around numbering. We would like to add some guidance on the actual rate of remuneration not being necessary. Clause 7 proposes to insert new section 4B, containing guidance for the courts to use in establishing the actual rate at which the contractor has been paid. We do not consider it necessary to give this level of guidance and would recommend that new section 4B be deleted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe relationship with the adult minimum wage\u2014in the bill as introduced there is no mechanism for ensuring that a minimum rate of remuneration for contractors is consistent with the adult minimum wage. That certainly was not the intention\u2014the whole point of this bill is to ensure that the minimum rate for contractors is the same as the adult minimum wage. So, for clarity, it would be desirable to make an explicit link to the adult minimum wage set under the primary legislation. We would recommend amending clause 7, new section 4C(2), to make it explicit that if a minimum rate of remuneration is set, it must not be less than the minimum adult wage rate. We would also recommend technical changes to clause 8, amending section 5, to ensure that a minimum rate of remuneration be reviewed annually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe would also like to make amendments to clause 10, inserting new section 6A, to provide that contractors working for more than one principal at the same time, such as a truck driver delivering goods for more than one principal at the same time, would not be entitled to receive the minimum rate of remuneration from each principal. This was one of the issues that was raised by submitters\u2014that, often, people are working on multiple contracts at the same time. The truck driver is a good example: you might have multiple contracts\u2019 worth of goods in the back of the truck at the same time, and it would not be appropriate for each of those contracts to deliver a minimum wage rate. What the bill would therefore require is that the combination of those contracts adds up to a rate that at least delivers the adult minimum wage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe would also like to make some changes around the retention of remuneration records. Obviously, it is important that remuneration records are retained, if we are to establish whether or not a person on a contract is actually receiving a rate that is comparable to the adult minimum wage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI appreciate that there were some concerns raised by submitters around costs, especially for some industries\u2014that this is going to increase costs for certain industries. Well, to a degree, I have to say that if your industry only survives by paying people less than the minimum wage, then you are, effectively, being subsidised by the State. Lots of industries have to pay people the minimum wage. There is no escaping that\u2014and if they are not able to survive paying people the minimum wage, then they are not able to survive. That is the nature of capitalism. Unfortunately, some industries are using this as a way to circumvent those rules and pay people less than the minimum wage. The minimum wage works for most industries\u2014why not for those that rely on this system? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThere were some technical issues that were raised by people, about the complexity of this bill. Again, the amendments that we propose seek to address this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EUltimately, this legislation comes down to a fundamental belief, on this side of the House, that if you are working in New Zealand, you should be entitled to income that is at the very least equivalent to the adult minimum wage. Some people are not afforded that right. That is wrong. We should change that. This bill is the way to change that, and I urge members, particularly those considering their vote this afternoon, to support this bill through to the next stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00224bf6d60dc1bd4df887c0a85755e85382\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bf6d60dc1bd4df887c0a85755e85382\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT Party in opposition to this bill. I have to commend the member who has just resumed his seat, Iain Lees-Galloway, and the member in charge of this bill, David Parker, for the intentions that led them to bring this bill to the House and to advocate for it. I think that everybody in this Parliament broadly shares the intention that people who work in New Zealand should be well remunerated, that their work should be safe, and, ideally, enjoyable, and that it should give them the money required to live well. There is no question that that intention is broadly shared by every party in this House and by every MP, including myself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut where the differentiation begins to occur is when you start assessing the bill\u2014or any policy, for that matter\u2014on the basis of its consequences and its outcomes, rather than merely its intentions. Although I commend the soft hearts of the Labour Party members that led to their bringing this bill to the House, I worry that the softness has extended to their heads. It is possible that the member in charge of the bill, being from very, very cold Dunedin, where they have very, very cold winters, has not been able to think rapidly enough, as the cold temperature has got to his brain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe issue at hand is that a good piece of legislation should address a well-defined problem. One has to ask oneself: \u201CWhat exactly is the problem that this bill seeks to solve?\u201D. The problem appears to be, if you take the bill\u2019s author at his word, that not everybody is earning quite as much as the minimum wage when they are contractors. It is interesting to see that they have not included taxi drivers in the list of professions. The problem that they have, it seems, is not actually a natural problem or a market failure. It is just that there is a wide range of different types of work that people do, and not every kind of work is remunerated on an hourly basis, for a wide range of reasons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIn the case of taxi drivers, the reason is that they spend a large amount of time waiting for trips. People who choose to make themselves available, waiting to do a job, might not be able to do that if they require the minimum wage amount of revenue for every hour that they spend doing it. So, ultimately, you have to ask what the Labour Party is saying to those people. Is it saying that they should stop working, or that working should become illegal? It simply does not make sense, and that is when we come to the unintended consequence of this bill, which is that if we are going to require all contractual work to be done on a minimum wage basis, then what should be said to the many small-business people out there who often have very few employees and who are actually often unable to pay themselves the minimum wage? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI have been in this situation myself\u2014technically breaking the law when I started hiring myself out as a consultant at one point in my career. I spent a huge amount of time at the beginning attempting to get busy, and I did not actually get paid anything for all of that time. Under this bill, technically I would be breaking the law. Of course, eventually, the members will be pleased to know, I did actually get some very lucrative contracts and paid myself out in the end, but for a time I, like many small-business people, would find myself actually breaking the law if this bill was to pass, because when you own a small business, when you start a small business, when you are busy trying to get busy and bring in work to contract with, often you actually cannot pay yourself the minimum wage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo this bill does not apply to taxi drivers. It cannot apply to people in any kind of small business if it is in one of the 16 types of work that are scheduled. But what about those who it does apply to? Labour seems to believe that the Government can costlessly raise the amount of income that people have. I thought it was very interesting to hear what Iain Lees-Galloway said. He said: \u201CWe believe on this side of the House that if a person is working, then they should get the minimum wage.\u201D The key word there is \u201Cif\u201D, because the reality of this bill is that by trying to require higher wages than people are currently earning, in many cases their employer will go out of business. Mr Lees-Galloway said that would happen, and he seemed to almost relish the thought that a business owner would go out of business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut if he was to complete the thought, he would ask himself what would actually happen to the person presently doing that work. Is it the case that when the Labour Party asks whether a person is working, it would rather a person currently contracted under these provisions stopped working altogether? That is the real trade-off. Because we have not got a properly defined problem for this bill to solve, it is not actually bringing any good. But to the extent it is effective, it is also going to reduce employment, and that is before we start talking about all the additional compliance costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt was an observation, funnily enough, by an Auckland University economist, whose name is going to escape me\u2014Tim\u2014that one of the things that has happened in the New Zealand economy in the last 30 or 40 years is that we have an enormously greater amount of compliance, transactional management activity, and far less activity in actually producing valuable stuff as a proportion of the economy. This is one of the reasons why productivity growth has been a bit weak lately. Once you start to look through the select committee report and think about what the bill would mean, it would mean that a whole lot of types of work in which people are paid to deliver a service are going to have to, effectively, become employment and that people are going to have to start measuring how many hours they spend on the job\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb9a5d5974bc464a997b46606ee9f19c\u0022\u003EAndrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Shocking! Absolutely appalling!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249773e7e52354e19a304980da0a23088\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014so that they can divide their income by that amount of time. Once they have started doing that, you are going to have to be able to verify whether it is actually true. Of course, the Leader of the Opposition says that it is shocking that you would have to do that, and I understand he is being sarcastic. He is right at one level that, of course, it is perfectly plausible that people could adjust to that extra cost if this law passed and if they were required to do so. It is perfectly plausible that it could be done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut you have to ask yourself how many more costs business people and employers\u2014people who, in many cases, at the start of their business do not even earn the minimum wage themselves\u2014should have to take in order to comply with a law that does not have a clearly defined problem to be solved and a law that, if anything, will have the more damaging unintended consequences of making it harder to start businesses and making it illegal to do many types of work that people are currently gainfully employed in. And, for all of that, it will put on additional compliance costs for those meagre benefits and, in some cases, negative unintended consequences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis Parliament, I hope, can find far more productive things to debate than simply trying to add additional compliance costs for what really, from the Labour Party\u2019s point of view, is more of an exercise, in my view, of political branding than actual policy improvement. For all of those reasons, I proudly oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022442e09dddf3a4df4bc52b2918735ee75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022442e09dddf3a4df4bc52b2918735ee75\u0022\u003EANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that was a speech of which I think the totality was easily encapsulated by that member David Seymour\u2019s admission that when he was self-employed he was incapable of negotiating a decent rate for himself. The member who has just spoken gave an account that is the basis of the real road to serfdom, which is\u2014and he asked the question\u2014\u201CWell, if people can\u2019t be employed being paid at this exploitative rate, who else is going to do it?\u201D. That is the question that exploiters ask. They just want somebody to whom they can pay as cheap a rate as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, we stand for the dignity of labour, the dignity of work, and the decency of work. The way the world is going at the moment, it is not about jobs; it is about work and it is about people being treated fairly for the work they do. That is regardless of employment status. Whether you are an employee, whether you are a contractor\u2014a so-called independent contractor or otherwise\u2014it is about ensuring that the work you do is fairly rewarded. The problem that this bill is trying to remedy\u2014and is pretty clear and explicit about, if one takes a moment to read the bill, with its schedule 2 and its specified list of services\u2014is that it is clear that there is a range of jobs about which it can be said that there is a growing number of New Zealanders engaged in them, for which they are not being paid even the minimum wage as prescribed in current minimum wage regulations. That is the issue we have to come to grips with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ELet me tell the House this story. I had a businessman who chanced upon me, actually, in the Christchurch airport recently. It was not in the Koru lounge, where I would otherwise have been mixing with \u201Cordinary\u201D New Zealanders, but in the public area of the airport. He came up to me, and I thought I was blocking his path, actually. I said: \u201COh, excuse me. Sorry, Sir, I\u2019m blocking your way.\u201D He said: \u201CNo, I actually wanted to come and speak to you.\u201D He described himself as a businessman. He said he owns a business that operates in both Auckland and Christchurch, and also has an operation in Australia. He described himself, curiously, as one of the top - 2 percent supporters of the National Party. I was not quite sure how he quantified that, but he said: \u201CI\u2019ve long been a supporter of the current Government, but I have increasing disquiet, on two issues.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe first issue he raised was the rate of wages that New Zealanders are being paid. He proudly told me\u2014and it was very admirable, from what he told me\u2014that the minimum rate of pay in his business, which is a manufacturing and distribution business, is $21 an hour. He said that if somebody comes in off the street into a semi-skilled role, that is what they will get paid. He provides training. He has got a skilled level of labour, and technical and professional levels in his business as well. But he said that he finds it unbelievable that people are being paid at $15.25 an hour, and sometimes just above, for responsible work. We talked about it\u2014you know, the fact that, for example, in aged care rates of pay for a lot of those workers are at $15.25 or just above. He said that that is not right. He said that we have a major problem in this country: too many people are being paid too little for the work that they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe know that one of the developments over the last few years is that, increasingly, workers are being shifted off conventional employment arrangements and put on to these contractor arrangements, sometimes with not a great deal of real choice. It may be of interest to the previous speaker, David Seymour, to know, actually, the reality of employment relationships. Where you have the owner of a business, or a manager representing the owner of the business, dealing with somebody who provides their skills and time and talent to that business, the relationship is not an equal one. Most people, you know, they want to work. They want to do their best in their work. But if they are told \u201CYour position is being disestablished, but we have this role over here, under a contract that we will call an independent contract.\u201D\u2014actually, a lot of people feel compelled by circumstance to accept that as an arrangement. So they become a contractor. For many of them, they are doing the work that they were doing previously as well\u2014the same workplace, often using the same tools, working with the same colleagues\u2014but then they find that they are assuming a level of cost and a level of risk in that employment relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThat is what this bill is seeking to address, because that is wrong. If we value work and, most importantly, if we value the people doing the work, we will make sure that comparable work done, under whatever employment status, is paid at a comparable level\u2014paid at a fair and decent level. There is no reason, there is no justification, for why somebody who shifts from an employment status to a contractor status, doing comparable work, should be paid differentially simply because they are a contractor\u2014or, worse, be paid, effectively or in real terms, less than the minimum rate because of that change in status. That is what this bill is seeking to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt is interesting\u2014and the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2019s report acknowledges this\u2014that other countries have addressed this problem. This is an issue in many parts of the world, but other countries have found the means to deal with it, including our nearest neighbour, Australia. I remember that when I was involved in the union movement, the New South Wales Government conducted an inquiry into just this issue, and it was horrified by what it discovered. It was able to regulate at a state basis, and now there is federal regulation, as well, which ensures that if you are doing work of a specified nature on a contract basis, and it is quite clear that it is not dependent on a client walking in the door\u2014as might happen with a taxi driver\u2014you ought to be paid at least at the regulated minimum wage level for the work that you are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe world of work is changing. That is why, in the Labour Party, we established our Future of Work Commission. We take that issue seriously. You would expect us to, as the party whose name is the Labour Party. It is disappointing that members opposite\u2014or at least their Government\u2014do not appear to take the issue as seriously. But the world of work is changing, and more and more people will be working in different ways, including working under contractor-type arrangements or even, as Mr Seymour talked about, self-employment arrangements\u2014but, hopefully, they will be better at negotiating better pay rates for themselves. We have to have a regulatory framework that acknowledges that but also accepts that there is a real risk of exploitation if we do not get that regulation right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis bill is about accepting that there is a real risk of exploitation of some if we do not get the regulatory framework right. This is a good bill. This is a bill that deals with a problem that is around today and is only getting bigger. It is a problem that other countries have managed to solve and it is a problem that this bill solves, if the House is prepared to support it. It is disappointing to see that the majority of the select committee has recommended that it not proceed, but it is within the power of this House\u2014those members with a conscience and those members who want to be part of a country that celebrates good and decent work\u2014to do the right thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESupport this bill in its second reading. Let us have a Committee stage debate, tease out each part of the bill, and, if Mr Seymour and his colleagues on that side of the House have concerns about specific aspects of it, let us consider their alternatives. Let us see the Supplementary Order Papers that will provide alternatives to the issues. But let us accept\u2014as the select committee in its summary did, I think, at least impliedly accept\u2014that there is a problem. There is a problem. The committee was just concerned that maybe it was too hard to fix or that there were too many fixes required to be made. Well, this bill is very explicit and it is very specific. It shows that it is capable of fixing the problem, and that would benefit at least some people who are otherwise going to suffer as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EMr Seymour talked about the productivity problem that we have in this country, and that is a big problem. It is a problem of investment, it is a problem of our technology, but it is not a problem that gets fixed by paying those doing the work less and less and less. That is a way of fixing the productivity problem: you just pay people less and less. That is the exploitative way. That is the road to serfdom. This bill is about a road to prosperity for the people affected\u2014for contract workers, but, actually, in the end, for all of New Zealand. That is why we are supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8cf0b97d55d4822bc3b4812060f13bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8cf0b97d55d4822bc3b4812060f13bd\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to be talking on the Minimum Wage (Contractor Remuneration) Amendment Bill. Just as a backdrop to this bill that is before the House, this is obviously a bill that had been put forward by the Labour Government some time ago, under the Darien Fenton bill, which was put forward but was actually rejected by the House. This is now a rewrite of that original bill proposed by Darien Fenton. Today what we are doing is having another go at trying to introduce similar provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think we have got to ask ourselves what we are actually trying to achieve. I have just heard the previous speaker, Andrew Little, talk about trying to deal with exploitation, and I think all of us agree that no one wants to see exploitation take place in New Zealand, with regard to New Zealand workers doing a proper job. But it is also a question about choice\u2014choice about the way people want to work, and the relationship that they want to have with their employer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think it is a fundamental tenet that we need to have a very close conversation around, because choice is something that permeates everything that we want to do, and, provided we are not getting to a point of exploitation, that is a legitimate\u2014in fact, a fundamental\u2014right of everyone in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe third thing is around risk and reward. What is adequate risk and reward for doing a proper day\u2019s work? I think, again, this Minimum Wage (Contractor Remuneration) Amendment Bill is sort of starting to cut across a lot of those original propositions. That is why we are not supporting this proposed bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I just want to pick up on is that, if I look at clause 14 of the bill, \u201CNew Schedule 2 inserted\u201D, which lists all of the different services that would be caught under this bill, they are quite wide ranging. We had a number of presentations from different industry players and workers, on a number of the related industries listed here, for instance: cleaning services, courier services, food catering, and fast-food delivery, right through to truck-driving services, telemarketing services, and newspaper and pamphlet delivery services, just to name but a few of the different companies that came and gave us very thoughtful presentations on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EYou know, when you look at some of those, particularly around the courier industry\u2014and we had a number of submissions from that industry. This is around risk and reward\u2014we had certain operators who were saying that they very much liked the arrangement of being able to be an independent contractor. That was their choice, and they saw that as adequate risk and reward. They did not actually have a view around exploitation. So in that case you have the contractor voluntarily wishing to enter into these arrangements, and actually finding them very satisfactory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOn the other side we had a company\u2014a very reputable company\u2014making similar representations, that they found these arrangements perfectly acceptable and preferred them. It does not preclude the arrangements of actually employing employees, but for that model it worked very well. The other one, which was the most obvious industry where this level of exploitation is perceived to occur, is the newspaper delivery service. Again, we had some presentations on that to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThis is the issue that I think that people have got to consider a little bit further: companies want to make sure that they get good value for money from their employees, and employees want to be paid adequately for doing a proper day\u2019s work. How do you measure that? In many industries it is appropriate to actually set targets about what sorts of outcomes you want to achieve during the course of the day, and the delivery of newspapers is one such case. Particularly in that industry it was providing jobs to many disadvantaged people, particularly people with disabilities, younger people, and older people who would not otherwise find getting employment easy or were not in the situation of wanting to take full-time employment. So entering into a contractual relationship in that case was actually perfectly feasible and acceptable to all concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think the issue around cleanliness services is another area in which there is a lot of debate about whether we are allowing these people to work late at night, endlessly doing jobs and not getting paid a suitable remuneration. One point I want to make\u2014and the member from ACT noted it earlier\u2014is that no one wants to see anyone exploited, no one wants to see anyone being underpaid for what they do, but the right to have a conversation and enter into a voluntary relationship with a contractor is perfectly legitimate. Even as a professional contractor\u2014many are the times I have seen and witnessed where professionals determine what they are going to incur in doing a job, whether it is writing a report or providing some form of advice, and subsequently find that they overrun that time estimate and therefore will exceed the agreed budget that they have entered into with the contracting firm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThat is, in a sense, a contract. It is a contract between two parties who have all of the information and who make a willing decision, and it is almost a willing buyer situation. That is a perfectly legitimate circumstance. If we took this bill to its extreme we would be suggesting that even those professional relationships involving highly skilled people\u2014we would seek to renegotiate with them if, for instance, we found that their overall rate was less than the minimum wage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI just think that is fundamentally wrong. I think the right for people to enter into proper arrangements is fair and reasonable and equitable and should be provided for. We do not want every person to be a contractor. We certainly want to see employment arrangements continued in that regard. But that flexibility is, I think, a very strong issue that we need to maintain in our employment relations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI do want to just add that as a Government we have been very focused on making sure that we stop some of the less attractive and unwanted practices that have been occurring. I note particularly how we have banned zero-hour contracts, where employers do not guarantee any hours of work. I think that is a fundamental change and a very important one that this Government has brought into play. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWe have also sought to increase the minimum wage, and I am glad that the Government has progressively increased the minimum wage from $12 back in 2008, now up to, currently, $15.25. The issue is: can we get there quicker? Should we be imposing a higher minimum wage, which many have advocated for? But I think for the many thousands of business owners out there\u2014and there are about 500,000 small businesses in New Zealand\u2014the owners of those businesses and the shareholders in those businesses would be concerned that we are not doing that in too fast a progression. We have set about doing it in a logical way, which means people can budget and, at the same time, all New Zealanders can share from that upside as we progressively increase the minimum wage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWe have also extended paid parental leave, reduced ACC quite significantly\u2014a reduction of $232 million for ACC cuts\u2014and I think all of those things go together to make the work environment that we currently have in New Zealand far more robust and appropriate for New Zealand\u2019s circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe last thing I just want to home in on is the cost of this proposal, which I do not think many people have actually thought about. I just want to lay out a comparison between the minimum wage and what it means to a salaried employee versus a contractor. An employee would be paid 8 percent of their gross earnings as holiday pay, on top of their wages, and an ACC levy would be deducted through the PAYE system, as we all know. If we were to compare this with regard to a contractor, a contractor receiving a similar amount of remuneration\u2014and let us say that is the minimum wage\u2014would not receive holiday pay but would have to pay both the earners levy and the work levy. The levy rate varies according to the employment sector. It ranges from 10c in the dollar, to several dollars per $100 of liable earnings. So, actually, what this means, excluding the tax consideration, is that the contractor would be approximately 9 percent worse off in a week than an employee. I think that is one of the financial constraints we should really think about when we talk about this bill. So, on those grounds, I oppose this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022 data-id=\u00226396768abc8e408fb105cb8a85561984\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226396768abc8e408fb105cb8a85561984\u0022\u003ESTEFFAN BROWNING (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker. I rise to speak in support of this good bill, which has been presented by the Hon David Parker, the Minimum Wage (Contractor Remuneration) Amendment Bill. This is a good bill because it aims to close some gaps around workers and fairness, about what people should actually get when they are doing some work, and the gap that is caused by employers seeking to exploit various workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to amend the Minimum Wage Act to ensure an extension of provisions to apply to payments under a contract for services that end up being paid at less than the minimum wage\u2014this is about correcting that. Certain sorts of work\u2014and one that has been mentioned a lot is pamphlet deliveries\u2014are not currently subject to the same provisions as wages that are paid through other contracts. This aims to fix that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EContractors are exempt from most minimum employment standards, and in a way this bill does not go quite far enough. The previous speaker, Andrew Bayly, was referring to some aspects. He did not mention ACC in there. This bill appears to still not quite be fixing that, but it will ensure that a number of workers will actually get, at least, the minimum employment standards of financial gain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThe Green Party supports raising minimum wages\u2014always has\u2014and supports the Living Wage movement. During the election campaign our policy was to ensure that all relevant Government contractors were to make sure that a living wage was paid when their contracts came up for renewal. That is just one example. We support workers and we try to ensure that inequality is reduced all the time. We are consistently looking at bridging the gaps around inequality. We support the concept of contractors being able to receive a decent wage equivalent to at least the minimum wage, and for good reason. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EThese workers are, effectively, subsidising those who are contracting them. Just think about those people\u2014we see them delivering leaflets, pamphlets. Maybe a reduction in the amount that is delivered will mean a reduction in junk mail, but it is appropriate that they should be working in a safe way. They should be treated fairly, they should be treated with dignity, and that means they should be being paid at least the minimum wage. They are not always working in a comfortable position, either\u2014wind, rain, hot and cold, steep, slippery, different situations, dogs, and whatever. To think that those people would do that and not be getting paid the minimum wage is totally wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EIn the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, I noticed the Government bleated a lot about the cost of enforcement. Well, if it costs a bit to enforce this, so be it. It is absolutely critical that enforcement is carried out, because I have seen in my region that contractors for the grape industry have needed enforcement to actually get fair pay for those who are working for bit payment and otherwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EI notice in schedule 2 here we have got quite a list of different services that may be affected: building and construction services; cleaning services; courier services; food catering; fast-food delivery; the newspaper and pamphlets, which we talked about; personal home-care support to individuals in an individual\u2019s house; a number of entertainment services; the manufacture of clothing, footwear, and textiles; telemarketing; market research; security guards, even; and also forestry industry services related to planting, pruning, or felling\u2014that industry has had one hang of a hiding in terms of deaths and employment issues. If this bill can go any way towards helping there, it is a very good bill. It also affects truck-driving services delivering goods. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003EIt is important that any contract in any related service like that is covered and that anyone there is getting at least the minimum wage. We will be supporting that and will continue to support it because this is a good bill. It will work for fairness for those people. It will allow them to at least have the dignity of the minimum wage, and if there is a cost of enforcement, so be it. We need good enforcement in the workplace for health and safety reasons, but we also need it to make sure that people are getting the minimum wage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228999c217-9b84-4577-b9b1-bcc8e9c7a395\u0022\u003ESo the Green Party supports this and is grateful to the Hon David Parker for bringing this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u00224ffa949585b94c049c2ecf8ef4b11ba6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ffa949585b94c049c2ecf8ef4b11ba6\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak in the second reading of the Minimum Wage (Contractor Remuneration) Amendment Bill in the name of the Hon David Parker. As a member of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, I want to acknowledge the Hon David Parker for the work that he has done on the bill and the work that he did on this bill during the select committee process, but I am taking this call to oppose this bill because this bill is to apply the minimum wage to contractors in the same way it applies to employees. This would mean that individuals and businesses hiring contractors will be required to keep a record of their remuneration and, if broken down to an hourly rate, it should come down to at least the minimum wage, so this means that they will also have to keep a record of their number of hours. It is not just one side\u2014a business or an individual hiring a contractor\u2014but the contractor providing their services would also be required to keep a record of their hours as proof, if required. To me, this is just adding unnecessary rules for businesses, and businesses do not need that. In my view, businesses need to be set free so that they can invest, reinvest, and create more jobs. We want our businesses to grow. We do not want unnecessary rules and regulations imposed on our businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI was not surprised to see that a number of submitters opposed this bill for these reasons. Those submitters who opposed this bill were from the business sector\u2014business representatives or firms\u2014and they had a very, very similar view, because these are the people who are out there in the field, and we should be listening to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESome very interesting points came out during the select committee process. A submitter said that moving to a time-based model for contractors in the way we have it for employees would actually restrict contracting opportunities because contractors like to have flexibility. Some of them just work part-time. What people look at when they go out to hire a contractor is the time line they can provide their service in and also the fees for their service, and normally businesses or individuals wanting to hire a contractor will be going out and asking for more than one quotation. Once they have compared that quotation, they will give that job to the one who is most satisfactory, according to their business or their needs. Sometimes these people going out to hire contractors have no idea about the number of hours that job will take to finish, so it is really unfair to put this responsibility on these businesses or individuals to make sure that the contractor they are hiring is going to earn at least the minimum wage when the total amount the contractor is charging is broken down to an hourly rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EComing from a manufacturing background, I have first-hand experience of dealing with contractors, and I know that contractors know what they are doing. Coming from a manufacturing background where there are several machines, I know that on a regular basis these machines are serviced, and these companies that service these machines do not provide that service for just one company, but that is their job. They go out and service machines in several businesses. What they do is they come in on a regular basis, they grease and oil the machines, run them, and show that they are running fine, and they do that after hours so that the regular business is not interrupted. So no one is actually sitting there and monitoring the number of hours those people who come to service those machines spend on those machines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESometimes in such businesses where there are lots of machines, machines can break down, and my experience is that contractors will never provide a quote over the phone. What they do is they will come to the site, they will assess the machine, and then they will provide their quote, and most of the time the quote is subject to various conditions, such as if they find there was another fault inside the machine or if they require a new part, which, of course, would require an additional quotation for buying that part and also for the time they spend on sourcing that part. If the machine is small\u2014I am just picking one example from one industry\u2014then sometimes these people will offer to take the machine to their workshop, because that is convenient for them. That works well for them, and in gaps they can fix that machine and then deliver it back to the site where it is required. And if the machine that has broken down is huge and cannot be transported, in those situations these people will come on site and fix that machine, and normally, again, it is done after hours because no one wants to interrupt their business during normal working hours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EAgain, when they come to fix any broken machines, normally they will be given access, in my experience, to the factory or the site. They come and do the job, they take 5 hours or 10 hours\u2014no one is sitting there and monitoring the number of hours they actually spend on that machine. No one wants to know whether they are just sitting in the tearoom and having their dinner; what they want is the assurance that the machine is fixed and they know how much they are paying for the job that the contractor is doing for the business. So, in my view, this bill is underestimating contractors out there, and this bill would do the opposite of what the member actually wants to achieve. I believe there are enough protection mechanisms for contractors if they feel they are being exploited. What we should actually do is spread the awareness that there are provisions available for contractors if they feel that they are being exploited. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI also feel that this bill will bind contractors to the minimum wage, because if this bill goes through, the signal will be that contractors should be earning just the minimum wage. As a result of this bill, people will start looking at the number of hours they will be asking contractors to break\u2014the number of hours\u2014and will also start calculating the amount that they are charging based on the minimum wage. I am a supporter of having a free market. I think we need the flexibility that is in the market place, and we do not want to bind contractors to just the minimum wage because some contractors are more efficient than others, some contractors like flexibility, and some contractors just like to work part-time. That is why a lot of people come out from their regular professions and start up their own business as a contractor. So we would be taking away that freedom from contractors, because, as I said before, it is not just the business or an individual hiring a contractor who would be required to keep those records but the contractor offering those services would also be required to keep those records. We want to see that the market is giving that flexibility for businesses to grow and for people to do well and to support our businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI do not understand why the member is so fixated on the minimum wage. On this side we are focused on growing our economy because if the economy is strong, we have more new jobs and higher-paying jobs, and that is what we want our businesses to do. To support our businesses we are diversifying our economy. We are getting free-trade agreements signed\u2014for example, we already have a free-trade agreement with Korea. We are very supportive of the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement, which is going to be worth $2.7 billion by 2030. These things are to support our businesses. We know that wages are rising faster than inflation, and there will be around 195,000 more people employed by mid-2020. These are the things we need to do to support our businesses. If the economy is strong, then people will have higher earning power. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EAs one submitter said, it is not a good idea to mix two models\u2014the employee model and the contractor model. First of all, it is not desired by the business sector, and also it is not practical. My colleague who spoke before me from this side gave an example of where contractors will actually be earning less than employees if they are put on just the minimum wage, because they will have to pay ACC levies and also they do not get holiday pay. It is not a good idea, so I oppose this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7cf131253bf4f18acd34627d5ea79ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7cf131253bf4f18acd34627d5ea79ad\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I was sitting there listening to this absolute rubbish from across the House. It was like a pit bull chewing a wasp. I just could not believe the absolute nonsense coming out of Parmjeet Parmar\u2019s mouth. The reality is that this is the winter of that party\u2019s discontent. Its members are so disconnected from reality when they think that it is all about business. They forget the point: it is about people. People make business. People operate business. People are the very ones who create economic growth and development for this country. The whole speech was all about how this is not good for business and we cannot afford it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI want to start my contribution for New Zealand First by supporting strongly this bill that has been put forward by David Parker, the Minimum Wage (Contractor Remuneration) Amendment Bill, and talk for a moment about that very thing, the minimum wage. The reality is that some employers out there would pay their workers less but they cannot because it is illegal. Think about that for a minute. There are employers out there who would pay less than the minimum wage if they could. So let us focus for a moment on the $15.25 that we heard Andrew Bayly talk so feverishly about\u2014that this party, the National Party, came into office in 2008 and took the minimum wage from $12 per hour up to $15.25. Annualise that. We are talking about $31,000 a year, working full-time on the minimum wage, at the current rate. Take your tax off that and you are taking home around $480. Your rent is around $300 to $350. How can you expect somebody to live on the minimum wage? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThis Government over there is justifying paying people less because they are contractors. It talks about choice. We are not talking about choice. People are forced into taking these jobs because they have got no options open to them. You think $15.25 is acceptable. You can pay people less, because they have got the choice to do so. It is an absolute disgrace. What about talking about a wage that is sustainable? What about going back to the days when you could do a hard, full day\u2019s work and get a genuine pay that you could actually sustain and live on and get by on, and move forward. The National members are quibbling\u2014quibbling\u2014saying: \u201C$15.25, we\u2019re not going to justify. We\u2019re not going to support our workforce to make sure they get that very thing.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ELet us talk about the choice. We are talking about, in many cases, contractors who are forced to take jobs because there are no other jobs available to them. Take this job, but it is a contractor\u2019s job. In Australia they have gone through some massive reforms to tighten up on exactly this thing, because people\u2014not all people, and not all businesses\u2014are out there exploiting our hard-working people. They have legislation in Australia that says if you are employed from a single source for 80 percent of your income, then you are not a contractor. What about implementing that? This is a way of getting around the law. At the end of the day, when you are comparing employees and contractors, employees get a raft of protections. They get a raft of benefits. They get 4 weeks\u2019 paid annual leave per year. They get sick leave. They get bereavement leave. They even get KiwiSaver contributions paid to them by their employer. When you are a contractor, you are responsible for that entirely yourself. When they are not paying you a fair day\u2019s pay for a fair day\u2019s work, then you are going backwards fast. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThe reality is that this bill is a very sensible bill. We did have a number of people and submitters coming through, and the majority of those people were very responsible employers, contractees, and businesses. We also heard equally from a number of people who fully support this bill looking after the rights of employees and contractors. The reality is that we have to make sure that we have got a balance, that people working in a contract situation or, in fact, as an employee have a balance with their employer or their contractee to make sure that they are not exploited. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI commend the people who came and spoke to us at our Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, because there were genuine businesses out there that were absolutely not having any impact on making any overtones towards paying people less than the minimum wage. We commend them for that. This bill goes no way to disenfranchise good operators\u2014businesses that are actually working within the confines of the law, with morals, and working inside a legal framework to ensure their workers are looked after. Some of those contractors have been working as contractors for years. Why would they not? \u201CI enjoy being a contractor working for this organisation. They look after us, and I\u2019m certainly getting paid more than the minimum wage.\u201D This is commendable. But we are talking about the vulnerable workers. We are talking about the shysters, the mongers who are actually out there doing a disservice to the goodwill of employers and businesses in this country\u2014the ones who will take absolute advantage if they can. As I said when I opened, they would pay you less but they cannot because it is illegal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThe minimum wage is an absolute doddery figure. It needs to be brought back into line. On average, 40c an hour over the last 8 years of your Government\u2014that is what you are putting your hand on your heart about? You cannot live on that sort of money. Nobody here could. You go and stay a night in your car and you think \u201Cwell, look, I\u2019m supporting the homeless\u201D, but I would like to see you live off $480 a week. You will not be able to do that. Nobody can. You cannot raise a family on that, you cannot live, and you cannot put food on the table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022124788c600384d218dfd21ab596d27c4\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Of course you can\u2019t. That\u2019s why you get Working for Families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293d3b8b5907e448cb5399615b75c73cb\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that this Government is out of touch. Chris, you are absolutely out of touch when it comes to knowing how to run a business or being involved in running a business. You live in a bubble. You have never been outside this bubble. You have never employed anybody, and I bet you have never been on the minimum wage and actually lived off the minimum wage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d10525293104bd7a35c3b52f4a31c99\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I have, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dc507b335594f8eb737788f90823a32\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: You were probably living on the minimum wage when you were living with your mum and dad. Try living under the minimum wage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThe reality is that we need to be supporting this bill. I hope that we have the sensibility to make sure that we look after those vulnerable workers who are forced into this situation. People engaged as contractors have few of the protections of employees, and this bill is about tightening up on that. Absolutely, 100 percent, we need to make sure that they are playing on a level playing field. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EWe have got a situation with a number of these points. In my first speech I said we had some reservations with regard to pamphlet deliveries. One of the offshoots from this is the fact that if you have got an aged population who are out there delivering pamphlets, and they do it as a bit of a sideline\u2014they do it as much to be social in their neighbourhood, to go and deliver pamphlets around the streets. They might take 3 or 4 days to walk around the streets\u2014Mrs McClintock, as she goes and talks to the Bradley family down the road. They stop and have a chat and a cup of tea. This bill actually caters for that. They are not going to be disenfranchised because they can employ a 16- or 18-year-old on a pushbike who can whizz around the entire place in 2 hours flat. They want to take their time to do it. New section 11AC, inserted by clause 13, exactly covers it off by saying, regarding recovery of minimum remuneration: \u201CSpecified person may not recover minimum remuneration for time that exceeds agreed reasonable time to provide service\u201D. So a negotiation can come in, and it is about fair and reasonable time. If the speakers on the other side think that it is too hard to hold on to records for 6 years because that is more of a burden and a cost and an issue for those businesses, the Inland Revenue Department expects us to hold on to all of our information for 7 years. So how can they justify keeping hold of your records? You have to keep hold of your records anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThere is no downside to this bill. It is a positive bill, looking after the best interests of positive businesses so that they can be put on the same level playing field with each other. You have got a positive contractor working within the confines and the rules and regulations of this country, and you have got some of those businesses that do not, and under this legislation those businesses that do not will come up. It will actually make for fair trading across all sectors, making sure that we are looking after the most vulnerable people in our community. I hope that today it gets support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI look forward to hearing more absolute rhetoric rubbish from that Government. Chris Bishop is like a pit bull chewing a wasp now, waiting to jump up and justify that \u201CI was on the minimum wage and I wasn\u2019t living with my mum and dad.\u201D Well, I have to say that I betcha you have not employed people and I bet you have never seen the hard side of what poverty looks and smells and tastes like. I would like to see you raise a family on $600 week, $31,000 a year. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00222e041396bf4b432ab19188e0d1b587ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e041396bf4b432ab19188e0d1b587ce\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Chris Bishop. How are you getting on with that wasp?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00223b070eb739774a348397da57d5730728\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b070eb739774a348397da57d5730728\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E What pretentious nonsense. I do not know whether Mr Clayton Mitchell knows what the phrase \u201Cpit bull chewing a wasp\u201D actually means. I suggest he google it. It is actually reasonably offensive to me and also Parmjeet Parmar, but that is generally in keeping with the tone of debate from, you know, \u201CBernie Sanders - lite\u201D over there from New Zealand First. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EHe stood up and said: \u201CMr Bishop\u2019s going to get up here with his rhetoric.\u201D Well, that was a speech full of rhetoric. That was a speech full of highfalutin rhetoric about the minimum wage, and I do want to respond to three of the points he made about the minimum wage. Firstly, he said \u201CWe can\u2019t expect people on $15.25 an hour to provide for families.\u201D, and that is true. That is why if you are someone who is earning at the minimum wage and you have children, the Government provides Working for Families payments so that you can look after those children. It is why the Government provides social support through the $2 billion a year we provide in the accommodation supplement. He talked about high rents. That is why we have the accommodation supplement\u2014to make sure that families can afford rental housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt is true that there are some people out there who are earning the minimum wage. Often they are people who are students\u2014people who are working part-time. I have worked on the minimum wage. I was a barman and was actually working below the minimum wage in the United Kingdom. Lots of people have. The point is they are often entry-level jobs. They are often the jobs you get as you move up the career ladder. There is a role for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to make is about the quantum of the minimum wage. We have one of the highest minimum wage rates in the developed world. Whether or not you measure that as a percentage of the median wage or as a percentage on a per capita basis, the reality is we have one of the highest legislated minimum wage rates in the developed world, and study after study and official advice after official piece of advice demonstrates that we have that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe third point in response to Mr Mitchell about minimum wage rates is that he just pretends that you can legislate for higher wages. That was the theme of his speech\u2014we need higher wages. Well, everybody agrees with that, and, actually, the wage increases have been outstripping inflation rates for the last 8 years, but the Government cannot just turn around and legislate to give everyone more money. This is the fantasy land economics that New Zealand First lives in. If the Government could do that, we would. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EMr Clayton Mitchell thinks that this is a flinty and hard-hearted Government, but surely he cannot pretend that this Government is so hard-hearted that if, with a wave of the magic wand, with a piece of legislation, or with the stroke of a pen, we could just give everyone $25 an hour and give everyone on the minimum wage $30 or $50 an hour, we would not do that. Of course we would, but the reality is that is not how wages are worked out, and, actually, that would come at the cost of jobs. That is why every time those members stand up and say \u201CWe need to make sure everyone gets a living wage, and we need to increase minimum wage rates.\u201D, they neglect the importance of actually making sure that there are sustainable jobs out there in the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe have increased the minimum wage rate, and we have done so in a sustainable way. It has been increased every year that we have been in Government because it is important to make sure that those who are not earning a large amount of money do share in the benefits of economic growth, and that is what we have ensured. So that deals with the silly speech from Mr Mitchell. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ELet me talk about the bill. My colleague Maurice Williamson, in the first reading of this bill, talked about how this bill was an example of the \u201CMaharey principle\u201D\u2014the \u201CSteve Maharey principle\u201D. I was reading back through the Hansard\u2014because I was not on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, so I have come to this bill a little bit late\u2014and I thought that was a really apt description of the bill. Steve Maharey was famous\u2014and I actually cannot remember what he said it about\u2014for saying that \u201CThere are things that you say you\u2019ll do in Opposition that you never do in Government.\u201D It is this sort of populist, cheap rhetoric that\u2014actually, fairly like what we hear from Mr Mitchell\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022079d32dd38374dff98f6a973db73b5d6\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CKeep Kiwibank\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ad9b68c28cb46a8a7fa117d8e0d5bae\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: And \u201Ckeep Kiwibank\u201D is a good example. My colleague Jami-Lee Ross names the example of the Keep Kiwibank Bill, which Clayton Cosgrove introduced into Parliament, and then he gave up the portfolio and landed the hospital pass to end all hospital passes over to poor old David Parker, who has also got control of this bill. So I do not know what David Parker has done inside the Labour Party caucus recently, but he seems to have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f10682826404deca1ca131ba91f7e4f\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: He must have gone to dinner with Phil Quin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da66425a1b9a46e695bccf73f07820f5\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Ha ha! Yes, that is right. Mr Macindoe says he must have gone to dinner with Phil Quin\u2014gone out for kai and k\u014Drero with Phil Quin and the right-wingers in the Labour Party caucus. We cannot possibly have dissenting views inside the gulag that is the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAnyway, this is an example of a \u201CMaharey principle\u201D bill, because, actually, Labour looked at this when it was last in Government and it decided not to do it. Darian Fenton got lumped with introducing it as a member\u2019s bill, where \u201CWe have got to do something for the unions, so let us introduce it as a member\u2019s bill.\u201D, and all the advice was: \u201CDon\u2019t do it.\u201D Cabinet heard the advice. Clayton Cosgrove knows that that was the advice. Phil Twyford, thank God, was not in Cabinet back then. He was still struggling to try to win selection to get into Parliament. But those members know that the official advice was against it. They rejected it when they were in Government, but then they went into Opposition, and it is like a lot of bills we get from Labour members. Twice now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022210af099f07f4421bae2e1bde8e1be30\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: How many elections have you won?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c63252ef1a5d47e094f328149eb5c60b\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait, son\u2014just wait. They have twice\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211a196d7de3f4f9a8877e7ddcaf64ce7\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256f5fe14850b49afb858fb7d417a33cb\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, your mate up on the backbenches scarpered off, so ask yourself why. They have twice now tried to reintroduce the thermal ban legislation, they have twice, I think, tried to reintroduce the biofuels obligation, and this is just another example of a retread bill, reintroduced into the House by Labour. This is a classic example of the \u201CMaharey principle\u201D. The select committee had a good look at this bill, as it did in the 48th Parliament, I think it was, between 2005 and 2008, and on both occasions it recommended that it not pass, and the majority has recommended that it not pass in these circumstances because the reality is that contractors are different from normal employees. They are costed differently. Their earnings are calculated in different ways. The structure and methods of their payments are different. They are different, and they are legally distinct for a very good reason. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EActually, my good colleague Andrew Bayly gave an example of how the bill was sort of well-intentioned, but with the way the bill is drafted it could lead to situations in which contractors are actually worse off\u2014in some cases, reasonably substantially. Parmjeet Parmar made that point as well, and I notice that Maurice Williamson and other speakers in the first reading made that point as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe are yet to hear in either the first reading debate or the second reading debate\u2014or from Mr Clayton Mitchell, in his voluminous contribution to the House\u2014an adequate response to how the bill will actually make contractors worse off. The whole point of the bill is to make contractors better off. Actually, there have been examples provided by officials\u2014and I will not relitigate or regurgitate the examples given\u2014that have been mentioned in the House as to how the bill will make contractors worse off not better off, and we are yet to hear any adequate response to that. Actually, Parliament has an obligation to legislate not just with good intentions\u2014because too often Parliament just legislates good intentions\u2014but for things that will work and that are actually based on evidence, and this is a classic example of how this bill is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe officials advised that the costs outweigh the benefits. The select committee came to the right conclusion that this was an unworkable bill that would not lead to the improvements for contractors like the bill aims to do, so that is why National stands in opposition to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00222bf2460ec0de4f19980e98c55d573886\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bf2460ec0de4f19980e98c55d573886\u0022\u003EPEENI HENARE (Labour\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. Thank you for this opportunity. The previous speaker, Chris Bishop, just actually proved the point of the New Zealand First member\u2019s assertions that, in fact, he does live in a bubble, and that there is a world outside of this place and outside of Cabinet papers and outside of the numerous reports that are given to select committees and to members across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThere is a world outside of this place, and that world exists with real people. That world exists with people who are trying to make a living\u2014trying to make a living for their families, trying to make a living for a better future for themselves, to make sure that they are able to compete in a job market that allows them to compete fairly, that allows them to be able to compete fairly against some of those other operators out there who actually do go out seeking to undercut and do go out to force these types of wages down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EFurthermore, I take the point of Mr Mitchell in saying that it is also the reality out there that there are some dodgy employers. There are some fantastic ones and, I dare say, for the most part, many of them are operating well within the law, and others, and I want to commend Te Wh\u0101nau o Waipareira Trust at this time, who have committed to paying their staff a living wage; a living wage\u2014not the minimum wage\u2014a living wage. For Te Wh\u0101nau o Waipareira Trust in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, you have got to appreciate that the cost of living in T\u0101maki-makau-rau is extremely high, so I congratulate Te Wh\u0101nau o Waipareira Trust and all of the good employers out there that actually do right by the contractors\u2014do right by the people. Mr Mitchell is right when he says it is about people. It is not simply about the businesses, it is not simply about the market and \u201CWe\u2019ll let the market sort it out.\u201D; it is, fundamentally, about people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWith this particular bill, I stand, obviously, to support my colleague the Hon David Parker in his attempts to bring fairness into this space, and I take the point from Mr Bishop, who talks about retreads. What this actually speaks to\u2014and the Leader of the Opposition hit it on the head\u2014is that we are committed to these things. The Labour Party is committed to fairness in the labour market. We are about good jobs, we are about allowing people who work hard to get paid fairly, and that is what we are here for, so it is no surprise to see an attempt in the last decade to get this bill across the line and, when it did not succeed, to come back and do it again\u2014because we are committed to that. We do not flip-flop. We do not make policy or decisions on the hoof, off the cuff, or as we run, and \u201CWe\u2019ll pay people to leave T\u0101maki-makau-rau\u201D and all of the other things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EMr Bishop also spoke about intentions versus outcomes. Well, I think that is pretty rich, given the brightline legislation around property and capital gains tax that was recently introduced by this Government. It is, as those members have mentioned in the debates on that particular bill, well-intended, but it actually does nothing. It does absolutely nothing, and we challenge them on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EAt its core, this bill is about being fair. It is about making sure that, as already mentioned, if someone works hard they are paid fairly. It also seeks to close a loophole that sees contractors exploited. The Leader of the Opposition spoke at length about the exploitation that is out there in the current workforce today. It is everywhere\u2014contractors, young people, and workers right across the entire work spectrum are suffering from exploitation from far too many employers, so this seeks to close one of those loopholes that see some of those dodgy practices by employers exploiting contractors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWe on this side also believe that this bill is fair\u2014that it actually does not hold back business. We do not believe that it holds back business. In fact, one of the reasonable aspects of this particular bill is that where a contractor\u2014like a truck driver\u2014has a contract with two separate employers, they cannot take advantage of that position. You know, this is a reasonable step for this particular bill, and it does not disadvantage the employer in any way. In fact, it puts the onus back on the contractor to operate within these particular rules, so we recommend an amendment to new section 6A in clause 10 to provide for that particular issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EOne of the growing concerns for this country\u2014and we have been fighting and advocating for this particular issue to be forced on to the agenda of this particular Government\u2014is around poverty. It is around low wages. Despite the Government\u2019s assertions that wage rises are outstripping inflation and that everybody is doing better, that is actually not the case. We see it far too many times in our electorate offices across T\u0101maki-makau-rau and even in the regions now, where we are seeing families struggling out there. We want to see this first step in bringing equity into this particular field\u2014to make sure that contractors are paid fairly and that employers are looking after those people who actually make their business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWe also, in this particular bill, would recommend that the minimum rate of remuneration be reviewed annually so that we do not come back in 10 years\u2019 time trying to seek another equitable position for contractors in the market place. We need a constant review process that happens annually, to make sure that the wages that are being paid to contractors will keep up with, or at least track, the cost of living for many of our people out in in Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EFinally, we, I, the Labour Party\u2014this side of the House\u2014stand to support this bill, to congratulate the Hon David Parker on his hard work in this space. There were many challenges in the select committee process where Mr Parker, along with my colleagues on this side of the House, put up a good fight, and we hope that this Government realises that these particular bills are actually for the betterment of all Kiwis, for all New Zealanders, and not just for the very few. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022964c7ab9670f47bab38daad5f16c6e56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022964c7ab9670f47bab38daad5f16c6e56\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E The aim of this bill is to amend the Minimum Wage Act 1983 to extend its provisions to payments under contract for services that are remunerated at below the minimum wage. Under the proposals advanced by the bill, labour inspectors would be authorised to seek remuneration arrears and penalties on behalf of certain independent contractors in instances where a contractor\u2019s remuneration has allegedly been below the minimum wage proposed by the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EWe believe that the bill is not workable. As Business New Zealand says in its submission, \u201CThe Bill is impracticable, uneconomic and breaches basic legal principles.\u201D The bill seeks to fix something that is not broken, according to a submitter. Independent contractors and related remuneration models operated in, for example, the express package industry have been there for over 50 years. Throughout its lifetime, the industry has not been dogged by issues relating either to the independent-contractor model or related remuneration models. The fundamental reason that this is the case is the partnership that exists between the principal\u2019s needs and the independent contractor\u2019s needs. Both parties need each other in business to stay in business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThis model has provided New Zealand with a highly, highly efficient and essential express package industry. The bill is uneconomical because it changes a productivity-based remuneration model to a partially fixed remuneration model that is not based on productivity. The bill artificially and inappropriately orders contractual relationships that are mutually agreeable to both parties. It does not account for the different types of remuneration common in the contract industry, including, for example, hourly rates\u2014time-based; piece rates, which are volume based\u2014and fixed price on completion, or outcome based. The bill artificially makes contractors working on the basis of piece rates, or for a fixed price on completion of work, move to time-based remuneration, despite the former being their preferred model of remuneration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EDespite the fact that the bill will be applicable only to self-employed contractors and not staff, the bill makes an incorrect assumption that every contractor within the prescribed schedule is taken on as a contractor when they would prefer to be an employee. This is not correct. Many contractors have multiple clients, giving them an adequate income from all sources while preserving a level of flexibility and variety that they value and do not get in a more traditional employment relationship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EComprehensive enforcement of this bill\u2019s provisions will be impossible to achieve without a very significant increase in regulatory capacity. Enforcement, therefore, is likely to be based on grievances and complaints of non-compliance, and, therefore, will mostly benefit only those very few who take and win a case. So the consequences of forcing a time element into contracted outcomes are significant, including the possibility of encouraging unsafe practices by contractors in order to meet artificial deadlines, and it is unlikely that outcomes will be gained. For example, people may want to purposefully delay their work in an attempt to get better pay or more money. Delays in contract performance, or cost overruns arising from minimum wage claims, would be inevitable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThese, in turn, could lead to contract performance complaints, claims for compensation, and the like, which normally leave neither party the winner. Also, we do have existing laws to regulate the market. Any breach of the current Minimum Wage Act caused by improperly treating someone as a contractor rather than an employee can already be challenged. All occupations specified in proposed schedule 2 will suffer negative consequences if the bill is introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThe courier service is very important to our economy. In the main, independent courier contractors are engaged on the basis of pick up, haul, and deliver, and the courier segment itself has several sub-segments. The largest is the network courier segment where items are picked up from A by one courier and delivered to B by another courier, either locally or elsewhere in the country. So, between these functions, the post trucks, planes and so forth are required to underpin the service. So this segment typically remunerates couriers on piece rates. Another primary segment is the point-to-point segment, where an item is picked up from A and delivered to B by the same courier. In this segment couriers are often remunerated by way of a pre-agreed revenue split between the contracting company and a courier, or on a job-by-job basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EBoth these sub segments have existed from the outset of the modern courier industry in the 1960s, without drivers being exploited. Independent contractors in this industry make business decisions based on their equity investment in vehicles. They can be leased or owned, new or second-hand, and maintenance plans, operating costs, including their employees\u2019 labour and general overheads, are included there. Investment and other business decisions are unique to each contractor and to the type of contract holder. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThe generic, time-based model proposed by the bill would not recognise independent contractors\u2019 unique input costs, nor would it incentivise productivity. Instead, it is likely to disincentivise productivity, leading directly to higher costs and reduced service levels. Market intervention such as this would be destructive to the courier industry, its customers, and the many thousands of couriers who have invested in their own businesses and are currently working productively and positively in industries. The current law is sufficient to prevent misuse of contractor status. Therefore, I would like to oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u0022c25ab851d5f64e349a2980295cfeece5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c25ab851d5f64e349a2980295cfeece5\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I think that last speech just personifies the struggle that National members are having trying to justify why they think it is OK for people who are working hard in New Zealand to be paid below the minimum wage. That is what the National Government is arguing here in this Parliament\u2014that it has such a strong future in mind for this country, that its brighter future actually involves people being paid less than the minimum wage for working hard in this country. Well, that is not the vision that we have on this side of the House. We actually want people to be paid well. We want to improve wages. We want people to have decent living standards, and that is what this bill is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI want to congratulate the Hon David Parker on bringing it in front of the House, but I also want to commend former colleague Darien Fenton, who was absolutely passionate about this, and was the original drafter of this bill. If National is trying to pretend that it wants to fix this issue but it just has not thought of the right way to do it yet, it has had many years to think about how to do that because this bill has, in fact, been before the Parliament before. So no one is going to believe that bit of nonsense from the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI want to agree with Labour leader Andrew Little, when he said earlier in this debate that we are after the road to prosperity, not the race to the bottom that the National Government seems intent on taking this country down. Government members were trying to pretend that this is about a question of choice. What choice is there in someone working hard and being able to be paid less than the minimum wage, because that is what the National Government is arguing for. That is what it is arguing for. And that is the very reason the Labour Party has brought this bill before the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EAs it stands right now in New Zealand, it is legal to pay an independent contractor, a self-employed person, below the minimum wage, and in this day and age, in 2016, in Aotearoa New Zealand, that is morally and ethically wrong. The fact that the laws book allows this to happen under a National Government is ethically and morally wrong. Forty percent of the children living in poverty in New Zealand are actually living in families where there is a parent in paid employment. I will say that again because it is a national disgrace. In terms of the 40 percent of children living in poverty in New Zealand, one of their parents actually goes out and works hard and tries to earn a decent living. But it is because of the attitude of the National Party that those parents often cannot make enough money to actually ensure that they are paying the rent, that they are putting decent food on the table for the children, that their children are going to school with a pair of shoes on their feet and going out with a warm coat in these cold temperatures that we are suffering right now in New Zealand. These are the effects of that Government and its inability to actually address issues like the one we are putting in front of this Parliament this afternoon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003ESo what are we asking for? We are not asking for a lot. It is the fact that anyone who may be employed as an independent contractor has the right, as every other worker does in New Zealand, to be paid the minimum wage. It is an audacity for the National Party to argue that this would be far too onerous because it might require that employers have to understand and know the hours those people are working. It is just an outrage. It is not that long ago that that same Government passed a piece of legislation to improve health and safety in this country, and I say good on it. But for goodness\u2019 sake, if Government members think it is OK that employers can pay people a paltry amount without understanding the number of hours they are going to have to work to earn that paltry amount, then they have no understanding of the issues that drive bad health and safety practices in this country, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThey talked about piece rates. I want to say that the piece rates that are paid in the forestry industry are probably one of the main drivers of bad health and safety in that sector. That is right, Mrs Goodhew\u2014do not raise your eyebrows and look like it is the first time you have heard it, because you will know all about it. The fact that people have to chop down X-number of trees\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f86f442345845678f37b7e9cbf47fd6\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te wh\u0101nau o Te Whare P\u0101remata. Kia ora mai t\u0101tou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Members, when we adjourned for the dinner break, we were debating the Minimum Wage (Contractor Remuneration) Amendment Bill. Sue Moroney was speaking. She has exactly 5 minutes remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234ca769eee684bc287f8be903c2a1ed8\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not intend to take the full 5 minutes, because this is a members\u2019 day, which means that the really great legislation is in front of the House today because it is largely from the Labour Party. So the things that are really relevant to New Zealanders are being debated on members\u2019 days. The good news is that next year the New Zealand voting public can make members\u2019 day become Government bill day, where the really relevant issues will be debated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003ETonight it is about ensuring fairness\u2014fairness in work. That is the sort of thing that the New Zealand public can expect to see from a Labour-led Government. What we are talking about tonight is the right for people who are self-employed, independent contractors, to be paid at least the minimum wage\u2014not a big ask. That should just be a basic entitlement, but not according to National members. They are voting against this because they do not believe in fairness at work, and they do not want self-employed people to be paid at least the minimum wage. But the rest of us do, and I am hoping that the Hon David Parker will get this bill through its second reading, because he certainly got the support of the House on its first reading. I believe that he is going to get majority support again. I certainly hope that he will, because I think that most New Zealanders would agree with the Labour Party that it is just a basic right for people to know that when they work they should expect to be paid at least the minimum wage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003ENational members brought back the ghost of Bill Birch before the dinner break. They brought back the ghost of Bill Birch. Apparently they are voting against this because it is all about choice; the choice to be ripped off, the choice to be exploited, the choice to work hard but not even get the minimum wage. Well, the Labour Party is on the side of hard-working people. We are on the side of the self-employed people of this country. We are on the side of the families who want to feed their children and make sure that they can go to school with shoes on their feet and a warm coat. We are on the side of hard-working New Zealanders who believe in justice, who believe in fair pay for a fair day\u2019s work. We are on the side of the majority of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022 data-id=\u0022899177fcb6584b93aa27e3ee9a85eae7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022899177fcb6584b93aa27e3ee9a85eae7\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Well, what a lot of pious, sanctimonious commentary in the last couple of minutes from Ms Moroney that she knows best, she knows what self-employed people would prefer. They are self-employed because they want to be self-employed. They are independent of other employers. They want to go out and work for themselves. They want to take the risk and better themselves and their families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282cfca42b14c411896825560c2ef4872\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Not to have the minimum wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7b1f02e6cd54048abba7cc8c993d7e7\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: At some point they will have to\u2014they do. People make a sacrifice when they start out in a business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EI will give you an example. Let us imagine there is a builder who is enjoying being part of this construction boom that we are in. It is the biggest construction boom that we have had ever: more apprentices in construction than ever before; more money in construction, building houses, than ever. So we have got a young fella and he wants to set up his own business. He wants to be one of these self-employed people whom Sue Moroney wants to protect. So he goes out and he decides that he wants to set up a business. He has not done it a lot. He has not done many houses himself off his own bat, because he is a journeyman. So he contracts. He writes a contract with someone who wants to build a house. He makes a few mistakes and he takes a bit longer than his uncle, his father, or the people before him. Heaven forbid he does not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f185866f24744543a90510c9b6799582\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: $15.25.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc0fc83b9d544df3a6905b9999252ef9\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: Not only does he get less than $15.25 an hour, he gets less than zero. He might lose money on that contract. He might lose money on that contract because he is starting out, he is taking a risk, and he wants to give things a go. But he has learnt from that. He has learnt from that mistake. And then he goes out again and he does not give up. He gives it another go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EJust imagine if that poor fella\u2014according to Sue Moroney, the poor fella; but I say good on him\u2014was obliged to be paid $15.25 an hour. Just imagine if he went to the customer\u2014this is who it is\u2014on a fixed-price contract for a house and he said: \u201CI\u2019m sorry, mate. I have taken a bit longer than I expected. I\u2019m sorry it rained for a week and I could not put the concrete pad down. I\u2019m sorry\u2014the law says I deserve $15.25 an hour.\u201D What is the person who wants that house built going to say to him? He is saying: \u201CSorry, man, I am not going to reference you. You have not done the building on time and at the right price. You are going out of business.\u201D That is just an example. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003ESo my point here, Ms Moroney, is that there is confusion on your side of the House whereby you do not understand the difference between a minimum wage, an employee-employer relationship, and a contracting relationship where one pays for services. It does not matter how long they take to complete the job\u2014they get paid for the job, whether it is pruning a row in a vineyard or painting a house. It is not about the time that you take; it is about the job that you complete. If you can do it faster, if you can do it more efficiently, good on you; you will get paid very well. But if you do not, I am sorry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e75ea1b7d29d4902ae69db550e55609f\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Might risk your health and safety. Yeah, well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294af9408ab6d4318aabd3d26e91e6348\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, but it is for you to decide how fast and how slow you go. We heard from\u2014you were there Ms Moroney; you were there listening to them\u2014people who deliver pamphlets, who said: \u201CWe do not want to support this bill because we will be out of a job if this bill is passed, because we want to take our time. This is a social occasion. We want to walk and take our time\u2014walk the dog and talk to our friends. While we are doing that we can be paid something for delivering these pamphlets.\u201D We know that if we make the employer pay those people $15.25, which they have no interest in receiving because they want to take their time doing it, they will not be in a job\u2014they will not be in a job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003ESo there is confusion about the minimum wage, which I absolutely support. The minimum wage at $15.25 is not what this is about. But a lot of speakers on your side have talked about the minimum wage. Waipareira Trust was talked about. Mr Henare was talking about how the trust was paying a living wage, I guess: $19 an hour. Good on them. Fine. Go for your life. Pay the people whatever you like, but this is about contractors and contracting for service. The only way we are going to increase the minimum wage\u2014and I agree we want the minimum wage to be higher; we want people to be paid more\u2014and the only way we are going to get people paid more is if we become more productive, more efficient, we export more stuff, and we sign free-trade agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThis is what it takes for minimum wages to be raised. You cannot legislate for it. You have got to support water storage projects. You have got to encourage people to say \u201CYeah, we want irrigation.\u201D The Green members are your partners. They do not want water storage projects. These are the things that we must do to raise living standards in this country. That is the only way you are going to raise the minimum wage. You cannot legislate for a minimum wage just like that. It does not happen like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003ESee, this is the benefit of being in Opposition. You can shoot from the hip, you can say all these things and make a headline, but there is no consequence for the Opposition members, is there? It does not have to deliver. It does not have to deliver on the other side. \u201CLet us make everyone get $15.25 an hour, whether they are slow or fast.\u201D I mean, how fair is paying $15.25, in the pamphlet example, if someone takes a long time, and then you have got some young fella on a bike and he delivers those things at twice the speed. That is not fair. That is not fair on the guy who ends up making $16 or $17 an hour. So that is the point: there is only one way to increase the minimum wage, and I agree the target and the aim on both sides of the House is to increase the minimum wage or standards of living\u2014call it what you like\u2014of all New Zealanders, but the advantage, I guess, for the Opposition, is that those members do not have to think about the consequences of their policies. So, again, they do not have to think about free tertiary education. Who pays for that? It does not matter. It is bums on seats\u2014everyone is entitled to free education. Here we go again\u2014we have got 100,000 houses. Where are they going to come from? Who is going to pay for that? It is another badly thought-out policy\u2014and, again, for the headline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThis bill is simply for the headlines, and there is a confusion on that side of the House about\u2014I will come back to the point\u2014what we agreed is the minimum wage. And remember, of course, that there are a lot more labour inspectors in the market place, so if there is an issue around employers or employees then there are a lot more labour inspectors to reinforce the law. I agree, people should not be taken advantage of. People should not be paid below $15.25 when they are entitled to be paid $15.25, but do not go and force a young fellow who wants to get on with it to be paid $15.25 when he is quite willing to take the risk. He is quite willing to work slower, and he is quite willing to build up a business on his own account, take the risk, and even make a loss. There is nothing wrong with that, and that is why we cannot support this bill, because this bill is trying to fix a problem that simply does not exist. This bill is trying to fix the wheel that is spinning very effectively and efficiently today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002279c7e06d3796448c92ca60052b20511f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That the Minimum Wage (Contractor Remuneration) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12; Maori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f42afffec5db4abaa9c741181027ace7\u0022\u003EOaths and Declarations (Endorsing the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bacbc09a37324867be6208e2eaf45a35\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022 data-id=\u00227be491e59c2f4eaba178f226018610a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227be491e59c2f4eaba178f226018610a7\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Oaths and Declarations (Endorsing the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be considered by the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. It is with somewhat of a heavy heart that I stand in the House of Representatives tonight to speak to this bill, knowing full well that it does not have the numbers to succeed beyond its first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EIt is with a sense of bewilderment and extreme sadness that I speak to the simple yet powerful provisions encapsulated in the 16 words of the text that I seek to have added to the Oaths and Declarations Act. Tonight I speak to the collective conscience of this House, and do so as many of my predecessors have done, and compel that conscience to act in the interest of our nation and vote in support of this bill, to swear a commitment of faith to our beloved Treaty of Waitangi. Tonight I ask us to put aside our philosophical positions, our polls, and our party spin, and replace them with honour to maintain, affirm, defend, and give support to the notion that in fulfilling our public duty we act in accordance with the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi. And if you cannot do this, if you cannot bring yourselves to vote in favour of this, then vote for others who seek it in their hearts to do so, and allow us the choice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EThis bill follows on from the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s previous efforts in 2012 to have the Treaty honoured during the taking of an oath\u2014nothing more, nothing less than simple acknowledgment that, if you so desired, you could add seven simple words at the time, saying \u201CI will uphold the Treaty of Waitangi\u201D when you pledged your oath of office. At that time when the bill was heard, the Hon Tau Henare cautioned us with this statement in this House: \u201CThis bill is not some sort of procedural motion that we are talking about. We are not talking about some minor procedural motion. We are talking about something that goes to the heart of the identification of this country.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EI feel glad that I live in this country where I can send my kids to a total immersion school, and where I can get up and speak my own language in the House of Representatives. There are three languages in the House of Representatives\u2014what a great democracy. What a great place. And we could have gone just that little bit further tonight, by saying that if you want to\u2014if you want to\u2014you could swear allegiance not only to the Queen, not only to the nation, but also to the founding document of our nation, the Treaty of Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EAt that time there were calls to have more discussion about our constitutional arrangements and to await the outcome of a constitutional review. There were fears\u2014irrational fears, I would call them\u2014and concerns that there was not enough certainty about what was actually meant if you gave an oath to support our Treaty and someone else did not. There were other concerns raised about how consistent the bill was with other Acts, such as the Citizenship Act. There were even comments made that the bill is not the right platform, as the status of the Treaty is still evolving and that a wider discussion should involve all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EI consider it entirely inappropriate to enslave the debate for this bill to the confines of half-baked arguments that offering this choice for those who accept to take up the option will result in some sort of binding contract between the Treaty and the giver of the oath. Our founding document deserves more and we deserve more. To suggest that because some do not know what the principles of the Treaty are they should not be included at all, ever\u2014I ask this House to remove the shackles of politics and to emancipate itself from the rhetoric that the Treaty has no place in this House, and, instead, to consider it an honour to be afforded the opportunity to swear an oath of faith in all that it means to be a representative of our people through the premise and the promise of our Treaty relationship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003ETo be truly representative of our people, we must be representative of our founding history. Burying our heads in the sand and relegating the Treaty to the too-hard basket is just not an option. Worse, relegating constitutional discussions about the Treaty to being only about Treaty settlements is unfortunate. We cannot rewrite history, and nor should we try. We know that change and enduring change is a lengthy process. History tells us that it is with small, sure, incremental steps that a vision for unity in diversity can be realised. We are not there yet by any means, and this bill is an example of how far we have to travel before our potential for partnership is actually achieved. And what are we if we are not a House of Representatives? So many times I have sat as an observer in this House and have wondered at the courage that it will take to bring these fundamental issues to the forefront of our debates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EWhat is so wrong with supporting this bill to its first reading so that it can be sent off to select committee for the debate to be heard, so that it can receive submissions from the New Zealand public? And that is why we have brought this bill back to the House. In fact, I have brought this bill back to the House with the changes that I believe allay any concerns that have been expressed earlier. I have, for example, awaited the constitutional review, which is now complete. I have offered to work to ensure consistency with other Acts and that the additional oath given will be for parliamentary purposes only. I have agreed to maintain section 4 of the Oaths and Declarations Act, which allows for alternative affirmations in place of the oath. I find it quite remarkable that you can choose to take an oath and omit God but not the Queen, but yet here it is, and yet we choose to omit the Treaty. And yet, despite all of this, I cannot get the agreement of the House to get the bill to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party will not resile from the challenge of this or any other issue that advances the interest of tangata whenua in the interest of our nation. The irony is not lost on me that today we have one of the most significant days of our history. Today in the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee we got to discuss the Te Awa Tupua (Whanganui River Claims Settlement) Bill. That bill will recognise the awa in its own entity, and today we got to discuss that in the select committee. It is partnership in true action, and yet here we are\u2014here we are\u2014about to turn down this bill, which simply seeks to allow every person who takes an oath, in addition to repeating the words of the oath, to elect to state that they will perform their duties in accordance with the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EThat means that any person who elects to state that they will perform their duties in accordance with the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi may do so by making the following statement, either before the words of the oath or at the end of the affirmation: \u201CI will perform my duties in accordance with the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi.\u201D or \u201CE ai ki ng\u0101 m\u0101t\u0101pono o Te Tiriti o Waitangi ka whakatutuki ahau i \u014Dku mahi.\u201D And what can be so hard as to agree to give people the choice as to whether they wish to act in accordance with the principles of the Treaty? Some might ask what that means in reality. Well, in reality it simply means giving expression to partnership, being cognisant of our duality of nationhood, and being understanding of our diverse cultures as we discharge our obligations as servants of our people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EI want to finish with the prophetic words of our founding M\u0101ori Party co-leader Dame Tariana Turia, from a speech that she gave in Dunedin in 2004: \u201CThe M\u0101ori Party is committed to ensuring all New Zealanders have an understanding of and respect for the status of tangata whenua and Te Tiriti o Waitangi. The Treaty is the ultimate key to an effective relationship between our peoples. It should not be used to defy or destroy us. Our tipuna\u2014those of the Crown and those of tangata whenua\u2014embraced it as a strategy to live together peacefully in this nation.\u201D We should honour their intention, and I recommend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u002266f3e8f0a35042168bec944b741e9f25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266f3e8f0a35042168bec944b741e9f25\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101. \u0100, huri noa i Te Whare nei. E mihi atu ki a koutou katoa. It is my pleasure and my honour to be able to stand here as the first speaker for the Government for the Oaths and Declarations (Endorsing the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill\u2019s first reading. I want to start by acknowledging Marama Fox for the work she has done to get this bill to the House and, of course, for her good fortune in having drawn it from the ballot. I consider Marama Fox a friend and a colleague in many ways. We are M\u0101ori MPs. We have come to this House to achieve the best outcomes for our people and for all New Zealanders. We are partners in the most stable and successful coalition Government that this country has ever seen, and we are members of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, which, I humbly submit, is the most collegial and cooperative committee in Parliament. But we all do not agree, and today, on this issue, we are going to disagree. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThis bill had its genesis before either Marama Fox or I were members of Parliament, when my old school friend Hone Harawira caused somewhat of a disturbance by defying the law as it is and reading out his own oath, which included swearing allegiance to the Treaty of Waitangi. So I want to acknowledge that Marama Fox is going about this the right way: by seeking, through the democratic process, to change the law and, therefore, the tikaka of Te Whare P\u0101remata. I commend her for her efforts and congratulate her on getting this far with her bill. But that said, I also disagree with her and with the M\u0101ori Party on this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThis is certainly a well-intentioned bill, as Marama Fox has just said. But speaking for myself, I see the Treaty of Waitangi as central to what we do here in Parliament. It is our duty to examine every piece of legislation that comes here in the light of Te Tiriti o Waitangi and to ensure that the Treaty and its principles are upheld. This is something that I take very seriously, and particularly in my role as the chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee because every piece of legislation we examine involves interaction between the Crown and M\u0101ori and, therefore, plays some part in the Treaty relationship. Every agency of executive Government that we review each year has some responsibility as a representative of the Crown. But even in my other committee responsibilities on the Local Government and Environment Committee, I see the Treaty at play on a day-to-day basis. Whether we are considering resource management, water issues, or wider conservation issues, the Treaty is always a factor and we are always tasked with ensuring proposed legislation upholds its principles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EEvery day that I serve in this House I am committed to performing my duties in accordance with the principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. That is my personal commitment; one that I know is shared by colleagues right across this House. I see this responsibility as being intrinsic in the oath that I took. I have sworn my allegiance to the Crown and, thereby, to serve the people and the country of New Zealand. To me there is no question that in swearing that oath I undertook to uphold the Treaty of Waitangi and the laws of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI understand the desire of some members to recognise their personal commitment to the Treaty when making their oath or affirmation, but I cannot see that this is what the oath is actually about. The oath is not about declaring the particular issues we feel most passionate about. It is not about that. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a005e016e834169932b51b494663892\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member has the floor. The member is giving a speech in a solemn tone. For that member to continue to barrack during the course of that does not show respect to this House or that member, and I would ask her to stop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fd51aebb53c478e913201aca6c26405\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the desire of some members and the passion of some members to recognise their personal commitment to the Treaty when making their oath or affirmation, but I cannot see that this is what the oath is about. The oath is not about declaring the particular issues we feel most passionate about. If that was the case, I would choose to signal my commitment to upholding the principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. But that is not what the oath is for. That is not what the oath is for. The oath is something that is prescribed for each one of us in this House to take, or for those who are in other positions who are required to take an oath. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EIt is right that a very minor variation be allowed for those who have an objection or preference for affirming rather than swearing. Whether sworn or affirmed, the statement contained in the oath or affirmation has the same meaning, which is loyalty to our country, symbolised by the allegiance to the Crown. But there should never be substantial differences between the oaths required for holders of the same position to take. There should not be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EAll of us, as members of Parliament, should be serving here on the same basis. We should be here on the same basis. I do not think it would be desirable to have a situation where some MPs have taken an oath to uphold the Treaty and some have not. Upholding the Treaty is the duty of every member of Parliament. That would not change based on whether MPs chose to swear a particular oath or not. It would not change\u2014it would not change. But the implication of having different oaths would be that some MPs are sworn to uphold the Treaty and some are not, as I said. Some are not and some are, if they want to uphold the Treaty. Acting in accordance with the principles of the Treaty would then be very subjective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EWe are all familiar with the established principles of the Treaty, but how they apply in each situation continues to evolve through the application of legislation and court rulings. That is, in some ways, the essence of this. The Oath of Allegiance should not impose responsibilities that are not clearly defined on those who take it. It should not impose different responsibilities on holders of the same position. For these reasons, I cannot support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d504ddd5a0940e384d3355c14a892bd\u0022\u003EKelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: What were they again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276988f046f9f495984a4d52b9caf4e5d\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO\u003C/span\u003E: These are them. Taking an oath or declaration is a significant part of New Zealand\u2019s legal framework, requiring a standard of national approach. The status of the Treaty in New Zealand\u2019s constitution and the duties flowing from it are a matter of law and Government policy. Just to finish, this is my point also: National is committed to ensuring that M\u0101ori and all New Zealanders can enjoy a successful and a more prosperous future. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u002278fe8f8bef59499f84613df59d9d068e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278fe8f8bef59499f84613df59d9d068e\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker. Well that was a kete full of h\u014Dh\u0101 if ever I heard a speech. Here we have the National Government, which has just spent the last hour championing choice, and what happens? It is denying M\u0101ori the choice to stand up for Te Tiriti o Waitangi. The M\u0101ori members of the National Party must be quite embarrassed by their party\u2019s stance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EIt is not a well-known fact that Queen Elizabeth II and I are, in M\u0101ori terms anyway, quite closely related. She does not actually mention my name often; I guess that proves that she is not a name-dropper. But the reality is that my great-great-grandfather\u2019s first cousin was godson to Queen Elizabeth II\u2019s great-great-great-grandmother. So, if we overlay the M\u0101ori whakapapa framework, that basically means that we are wh\u0101nau. But, despite the fact that we are wh\u0101nau\u2014Queen Elizabeth II has been to New Zealand a number of times, and each time she heads up to Waitangi and drives right past our marae. She has never once swung in to her wh\u0101nau\u2019s marae. You know, wh\u0101nau is wh\u0101nau; my marae is her marae. Not once have I seen her turn up. Not once have I heard her karanga. Not once have I heard her waiata. Not once has she peeled a spud or washed a plate or opened kinas whatsoever. When, on the odd occasion, I have been over to England, I turn up to her place\u2014no p\u014Dwhiri, no karanga, not even a whakatau. In fact, there is this big wrought iron fence out in front of her marae, with these guys with red jackets and big woolly hats on and guns keeping me out. She does not know anything about whanaungatanga or manaakitanga, or anything like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe point of the story is that Queen Elizabeth II has absolutely no understanding or any ability to relate to who I am and where I am from as a M\u0101ori New Zealander. I have absolutely no ability to relate to her and where she comes from. Yet when I walked into this House here and I had to put my hand on the Bible, I had to swear allegiance to a lovely great-grandmother who lives over in England. I did not have the opportunity as a M\u0101ori member of Parliament to swear allegiance to Te Tiriti o Waitangi and its principles\u2014and that is really unacceptable. The National Government has an opportunity today to change that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI can relate to the Treaty of Waitangi because I grew up in the place where it was signed. My great-great-great-great-grandfather was one of the signatories; he was the grandfather of that godson of Queen Victoria. I ran around and played, as a kid, on the place known as Tau Rangatira, where the chiefs sat on 5 February and debated and discussed the Treaty of Waitangi before heading over the river to sign it the next day. We used to walk freely all around the Waitangi Treaty Grounds when I was a young person, until Pita Paraone and Peeni Henare and all the other members of the Waitangi National Trust actually put a charge on it. I have even hit a few golf balls up the fairway that runs parallel to the Treaty Grounds\u2014in fact, probably more of my golf balls have landed on the Treaty Grounds than have landed on the fairway. But the fact of the matter is, as a M\u0101ori I can relate to the Treaty of Waitangi and the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi; I cannot relate to a lovely great-grandmother who sits in her house at the end of The Mall in London. It means nothing to me, and it means nothing to many of my M\u0101ori compatriots\u2014and even to non-M\u0101ori members of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI remember, as a teenager, when I signed up for teachers\u2019 college in 1984, having to go down to the local chemist because there was the justice of the peace, George Barke. He made me put my hand on a Bible as well and swear allegiance to that same English great-grandmother. It just did not mean anything to me then. It was a bit embarrassing, because he made me do it in the middle of his shop with all of the customers walking around, and I just thought it was ridiculous. The Treaty of Waitangi is something that I can relate to, that I can swear allegiance to, that all New Zealanders can swear allegiance to if they want. Marama Fox is only asking for us to have the choice. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8ba2b96d5ec4b2ea790ba089ff3b153\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8ba2b96d5ec4b2ea790ba089ff3b153\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to take a short call on the Oaths and Declarations (Endorsing the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill. It is quite interesting, I can put my hand on my heart and say that the Treaty was not signed where I was brought up\u2014I did not live there; I lived in a little place called Rangiw\u0101hia\u2014and at that time we did not know a lot about the Treaty. But let us take a little bit of a look at the history of how the Treaty got here. It was Queen Victoria, that great-grandmother over there in England, who actually brought that Treaty, through her representative, Hobson. When we start to look at what the member Marama Fox is trying to do here in getting people to swear the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, we need to start looking at what those principles are and how they play out with every individual person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003ELet us start with the members in this House, because what partnership means to me is very different to some of my colleagues. It means very different things to different people, and how do we judge that? How do you judge that when somebody swears in their oath to that particular principle? Who judges it? Who will critique that? How will we know that we have done this in the duties that we are swearing to? I believe that we already do that. We do not need to swear that. That goes with the principle of protection and the principle of participation, because we do that. Look at the number of Treaty bills that have been signed through this Government: 54 since 2009; a total of 80 Treaty bills that have gone through here. As my colleague Nuk Korako so eloquently put it in his speech, there is nothing in our bills that we do not consider in relation to the Treaty of Waitangi and its principles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EWhen we start to look at all of these things around \u201CHow do we know that? How do we judge it?\u201D, it does put a lot of people into a precarious situation, and then there starts to be some competition about who does it better than others, because it will happen. If this particular bill is going to go forward, you need to have a lot more discussion around how it is going to be applied and what kinds of standards are going to be put in place, because they will come out regardless of what people say. You can stand in this House today and say no, it will never happen\u2014but it will happen, and every single one of us will be judged by it, should this bill be passed. It is interesting that many people on the opposite side have a lot to say about it\u2014a lot to say\u2014and yet, have they thought about the future consequences of what that may mean for other MPs, other representatives across various organisations who take various oaths, what that means within their duties in doing whatever it is that they are doing? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI believe that there needs to be a lot more thinking going on around this, and I can see that when we start looking, everybody is saying: \u201COh, National doesn\u2019t care. It has no good affinities with M\u0101ori.\u201D That is rubbish. It is a lot of rubbish. We look at the principles that we have within our side of the House as recognition of property rights and economic independence. That is what those Treaty bills are all about. That is what most of the bills that involve M\u0101ori are all about. Strong, capable families and wh\u0101nau\u2014that is what this side of the House does with working with M\u0101ori and delivering the various bills and policies that we have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EIf we start looking at cultural diversity, once we start looking across the House\u2014yes, New Zealand has that. We have a broad church of a number of cultures here in New Zealand, and every single one of those ethnicities actually acknowledges that M\u0101ori are the mana whenua. That is what they acknowledge\u2014and they do, they uphold the Treaty within their own ways. We do not need legislation around this. We do not need an oath to actually say that we support things like this, because we do it. It is the doing, not the saying. It is the doing that counts, and that is exactly what this side of the House does. We do it. Let us start talking about going down the alleyway of the foreshore and seabed. It was not this side; it was the other side. We actually model what we do with M\u0101ori on this side, and I cannot support this particular bill tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u0022fad9b2b02dcb46aaa1df156da002bb36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fad9b2b02dcb46aaa1df156da002bb36\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. He mihi nui ki Te Tiriti o Waitangi. I am very glad to be here tonight as well as very ashamed, because I am afraid the bill is going to go down, and the consequences of not doing it send a very strong message. They send a message that the Parliament is still not ready to grow up and recognise that we are not in London, we are not in Westminster\u2014we are in Aotearoa. We can take what is good from our colonial history and we can take what is good from our founding document and we can create a better country, but we do not do it by voting this bill down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI want to just acknowledge Marama Fox and the M\u0101ori Party for bringing this forward. The Green Party is very proud to support a bill that would allow people to take their oath on Te Tiriti. I have experienced the humiliation in this House of trying to swear on Te Tiriti. It is not just about tangata whenua, because Te Tiriti is needed more by P\u0101keh\u0101 than anyone else. It is the founding document that affirms our right to live with honour in Aotearoa with respect to the people who never ceded their rangatiratanga. That is why this option should exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EWhen I have tried to swear on Te Tiriti in this House, it is because it is the meaningful founding document. The Crown is only one part of the bargain. If people find it meaningful to swear to the Crown, they are welcome to do so, but in Aotearoa the fact that the option does not exist is bizarre. We support the bill because sovereignty\u2014or if you want to call it tino rangatiratanga\u2014in article 2 was never ceded. Go and ask Ng\u0101puhi. I have been to Waitangi every year for 16 years, which is nothing compared with those who are from there. Every year I have been to Tou Rangatira and listened to the k\u014Drero about what Te Tiriti means. Although I support the bill, I do not actually support the principles. I support the articles because the articles make it very clear: k\u0101wanatanga, the governance of P\u0101keh\u0101 by P\u0101keh\u0101, and ng\u0101 tauiwi katoa for our diverse nation. Article 2: tino rangatiratanga. The absolute chieftainship of the rangatira, given by their people to them, was never ceded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003ESo the Crown and this Parliament have no right to say that we cannot swear on Te Tiriti o Waitangi or that the Parliament is sovereign without Te Tiriti. It is about the relationship, and if people do not understand that it is about the relationship, no wonder they do not understand about power in relationships, which means recognising and respecting people\u2019s right to honour their most solemn values. That is what an oath is supposed to be: we swear on our solemn values. For many of us and, increasingly, for a younger generation who have had the benefit of some Te Tiriti education, Te Tiriti is the foundation. And there is recognition that prior to 1840 there was also a process, including Te Whakaputanga, but also a long-term process whereby people of the North, in particular\u2014and, I believe, Kahungunu\u2014travelled to talk to the British Crown about the relationship, not to cede sovereignty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThis bill offers people the opportunity to swear on what they hold valuable. The future of this country and the past of this country cannot be separated from Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Why would we want to do that? In terms of leadership\u2014and I have taught Te Tiriti workshops for 20 years now\u2014people look to this Parliament to see symbolic action showing genuine respect and recognition. Yes, we have made progress in some areas but in this area we seem to be blocked. We seem to be locked into a fear-based approach\u2014a fear of diversity, a fear of so-called choice, but also a fear of upholding what is most important to a very, very significant part of our population, including many P\u0101keh\u0101 who believe this is really important. So I do not know what these people are afraid of, I really do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI also do not understand the arguments that have been put forward about how this might undermine the clear purpose of Parliament or it might create division or confusion. I personally had a member\u2019s bill that every citizen would have the opportunity to swear an oath on Te Tiriti in the citizenship ceremony and that each citizen would be told who the mana whenua were. So I am sorry, Marama, but we do definitely support your bill. I am sorry the others do not\u2014I mean the other, the National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d34fc36162df4ceba2be6a694f700bdf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d34fc36162df4ceba2be6a694f700bdf\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. \u0100, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e noho tahi i roto i Te Whare nei i te p\u014D nei. \u0112ngari, i mua i te haere tonu o t\u014Dku k\u014Drero, e hiahia ana au kia mihi atu ki tetahi o ng\u0101 kaimahi o Te Whare nei i hinga atu i t\u0113r\u0101 atu r\u0101. N\u0101 reira, e Tuhi Hauiti Parapara, t\u0113nei te mihi atu ki a koe, takoto mai r\u0101 i runga i te \u0101tamira o \u014D m\u0101tua tupuna, n\u0101 r\u0101tou i t\u0101kiri m\u014Du i t\u0113nei w\u0101. N\u0101 reira, ahakoa he poto noa iho t\u0113nei mihi, ka nui te aroha ki a koe me t\u014D wh\u0101nau. N\u0101 reira e kara, haere, haere, hoki atu. Hoki mai ki a t\u0101tou te hunga ora, \u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E[Acknowledgments to those sitting here in this House, tonight. But before I continue with my contribution, I want to pay a tribute one of the workers of this House who passed away the other day. So to you, Tuhi Hauiti Parapara, I acknowledge you lying there upon the elevated platform of your ancestral forefathers that they laid out for you at this time. Despite this being a brief tribute, there is much compassion for you and your family. So farewell dear friend, depart and return. I come back to us the living and accolades to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EWe have had six speakers from both sides of the House, two supporting the bill and the rest, obviously, opposing. It is about the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, and yet not one speaker has articulated what those principles are. So I want to quote from the Good Book, Mr Deputy Speaker\u2014and you will appreciate this\u2014it is taken from 1 Corinthians 14:8: \u201CKi te kahore hoki e m\u0101rama ki te tangi o te t\u0113pere, ko wai e takat\u016B ki te whawhai?\u201D. Ka pai\u2014I will translate it: \u201CFor if the trumpet gives an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself for the battle?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E I use that quote because of the uncertainty as to what those principles are. Mr Bennett may know those principles, but then, if I go back to the early settlement bills, reference was made to the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, yet none of those principles were articulated in those pieces of legislation, and yet recent settlement bills make no mention of the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi as part of the legislation. Maybe they do as part of the explanation, but certainly not in the body of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003ESo New Zealand First\u2019s position has always been that because of the uncertainty of just what those principles are, then we would not be supporting legislation like this\u2014No. 1. No. 2\u2014the bill talks about \u201Celect\u201D, thus giving an option. So what happens if half the team chose not to take that option and only the other half does? If the sponsor of this bill was serious about the intent, then she would have used the word \u201Cmust\u201D rather than saying \u201Celect\u201D\u2014but she did not\u2014so even she has some uncertainty about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe other thing is that if you look at the explanatory note, in the third line from the bottom\u2014and the member who sponsors this bill might want to read the word\u2014it says \u201CTreaty of Waitingi;\u201D, instead of \u201CTreaty of Waitangi;\u201D. So that suggests to me that this has been put through with some haste, without even being able to spell the word \u201CWaitangi\u201D properly. You are talking about an oath. Should it not be correct in every sense of the word? So until the actual principles are articulated, New Zealand First will certainly be opposing the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00228870f864f30a4ae5b565223fdbbc0ef7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228870f864f30a4ae5b565223fdbbc0ef7\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I was just doing my House duties, sitting in the House minding my own business, reading my Treaty of Waitangi negotiations folder for tomorrow\u2019s work\u2014including a very interesting reference to a meeting with a professor from Oregon to discuss the Whanganui River and Urewera settlements, which are becoming rather well-known overseas for their innovative approach to Treaty questions\u2014when I heard the debate on this particular issue, so I thought that I would give a brief speech to comment on it because, in a word, although I have huge respect for Marama Fox, who is an excellent colleague with whom I enjoy working, I do think the bill is unnecessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EIt always seems to be my miserable fate to follow Pita Paraone on these matters, and he may recall\u2014in fact, hearing the great man speak made me run out to the lobby to obtain the debate on his bill, the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Deletion Bill of November 2007. He looks a little bit quizzical, but I remember it very well, and maybe I could get him to read the excellent speech I gave on the subject, which can be found in Volume 643 of Hansard\u2014I know Mr Faafoi will be fascinated to read it\u2014at page 12880, where I set out very clearly an excellent and succinct summary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022628ec74ae96d418aa11d9b2c5ee3e720\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve already got a copy of it. I use it to go to sleep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206a48fddda8940289f229dd0a315a8a1\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014of what the principles of the Treaty were. Yes, it is very good. If ever you are feeling tired, or jetlagged, go to page 12880 in Hansard and you will be riveted. But there you are. The principles are actually reasonably well-known, and so Mr Paraone\u2019s constant complaint about the principles not being well-known is, with the greatest of respect to my friend, a little bit off the mark, but there we have it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBut I just want to go back to the wonderful day when we are all sworn in as members of Parliament and we enjoy that particular ceremony, and as Attorney-General, when I go down to the swearing-in of a judge I enjoy the ceremony where the Oath of Allegiance is taken. Everyone stands up, takes the oath or the affirmation, and they say \u201CI \u2026 swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.\u201D\u2014or, if you are an atheist, no \u201CGod\u201D. I think that that is all very well, but the fact of the matter is we need to focus on that phrase \u201Caccording to law.\u201D, because part of the law of New Zealand is, in fact, the Treaty, and part of the Treaty, of course, is that we accept that there are principles of the Treaty that we regard as important, and I am forever going around the country apologising for breaches of those principles of the Treaty over the years\u2014most recently at a fantastic ceremony in Dannevirke, where I apologised for the breach of the principles of the Treaty in relation to Rangit\u0101ne o T\u0101maki nui a Rua and Rangit\u0101ne o Wairarapa. I did not see Catherine Delahunty there. I am sure she would have been invited. In fact, I like to see Catherine Delahunty at these functions because I know that she is very experienced as a Treaty educator and has a great interest in these matters, and that is splendid when she is able to attend. But the fact of the matter is that we say \u201Caccording to law.\u201D And, by necessary implication, we read into that the Treaty of Waitangi and its principles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo the short point is that I respect Marama Fox and I look very closely at this issue, but if we incorporate a particular reference to the principles of the Treaty, frankly, to use the old phrase\u2014and I am sure I say this for the benefit of Kennedy Graham, who understands the phrase\u2014we are simply piling Ossa on Pelion, and it is basically a waste of space. We do not need it. When we swear that oath\u2014when judges swear the oath, they are swearing allegiance to the Treaty and its principles that they will conduct themselves in accordance with those principles in public life, and that is a very good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo that is the short answer. I know that there is a lot of noise that goes on with these things, but at the end of the day we as members of Parliament have to be logical, and we can agree that the principles are very important. Because of my efforts in 2007, we know what those principles are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224432fd11355d4803bb9d768131a1cd60\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: But you can\u2019t swear allegiance to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228efaf42ca1224956b54502b5d61b1ef9\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I would say to Sue Moroney to stop whining and simply concentrate on the words, because words do matter. It is simply unnecessary. It is simply unnecessary, it is otiose, and it is piling Ossa on Pelion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022cff4047320fd43c7914e403eefecfb38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cff4047320fd43c7914e403eefecfb38\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. Otir\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e Te Whare. I just want to acknowledge, first of all, Marama Fox for bringing this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EIt has been a very interesting debate. So far, all of the points that I have heard\u2014I have heard a lot of points supposedly against this bill, but they sound like points that are for the bill, and the issues that are raised are issues that could be discussed at a select committee. That is why I stand in support of this bill. I think it is a great idea to have that discussion around what is the content not only of the oath that we take in this Parliament but of every oath and declaration. I think it is a discussion that we should actually have, and the right place for that to take place is at a select committee. I encourage everyone to actually vote for that opportunity. We should have that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EWe have heard a lot about the Treaty of Waitangi and about irrational fear. In 1975 there was some irrational fear around the Treaty of Waitangi Act, which the then Labour Government passed, and there were a lot of things said at that time about what would happen. Then in 1985, again, when it was amended so that claims could be taken right back to 1840, there was some more irrational fear. At that time, people were talking about \u201CIt\u2019s going to bankrupt the country. It\u2019s going to do all sorts of things.\u201D, and now we can sit in this House and have rational debates about Treaty settlement claims, which the whole House supports. That is the importance of the Treaty, but it also shows how our attitude towards the Treaty of Waitangi has changed over the last 40 years. This bill is another way that we can give expression to the Treaty of Waitangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI was really interested to hear my colleague Kelvin Davis talk about his whakapapa. When we swore allegiance to the Queen, her heirs, and successors, I did not realise that we might be swearing allegiance to his wh\u0101nau, because if what he said is right, then he could very well be an heir or successor to the Queen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI really support this bill. In 1996 Tariana Turia actually swore allegiance to the Treaty of Waitangi. She was the first one to do that, and she got away with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234aa9bdcd39842c0bdd26ac3de6c8952\u0022\u003EMarama Fox\u003C/span\u003E: Did the House fall down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2a06ce9a5664455914fe54804b9b994\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE\u003C/span\u003E: Did anything change? Well, no, not really, but it was an expression for her to let the whole world know that the kaupapa she was standing on was the Treaty of Waitangi. I believe that I should have that opportunity as well, and every other member who wants to express that should have that opportunity as well. When I did take the oath in this House, I put my hand on the Bible and in my other hand I held a copy of the Treaty of Waitangi. I wanted to give my own personal expression to both the Bible and the Treaty\u2014my faith and my kaupapa that I believe in. That is the way I did it. I would have loved to have the opportunity to say those words\u2014to say that I would undertake the work of a member of Parliament under the kaupapa of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. I strongly believe that every one of us should have the opportunity to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI also believe that those irrational fears that are being articulated belong in 1975, not in 2016. So I encourage every single one of us in this Whare to examine the words that are coming out of our mouths and match them up with our actions. The words that I am hearing from the members opposite about this bill do not match up to their action of not voting for it. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u00221358988817fb4123a91e378d637c64dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221358988817fb4123a91e378d637c64dc\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100, t\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101, t\u0113na koutou \u014Dku hoa o ng\u0101 whare P\u0101remata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E[And so acknowledgments to you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and to my colleagues of the houses of Parliament.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EIt is a great pleasure to be able get up and make a contribution on this bill. I have always had a little bit of a fascination with oaths and declarations: as a mayor I used to oversee a lot of people taking their oath of affirmation, or otherwise, during citizenship ceremonies; and, in fact, even going back to being a social worker, from having to go into court and give evidence and having to swear on the Bible. The good book has been mentioned by my colleague Pita Paraone already. The thing that has always fascinated me, actually, about oaths and declarations is that in the very Bible that people swear on often there is the Book of James, chapter 5, verse 12, which says: \u201CAbove all, my brothers and sisters, do not swear\u2014not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. Just let your yes be yes, and your no be no.\u201D So, ironically, even swearing on the Bible is kind of counter to what it says in the Bible, but that is OK. That is just by the by\u2014a little bit of a sidetrack. I am sure we can have the theological debate about the rights or wrongs of that argument afterwards. But there have always been views about oaths and declarations and the various aspects of them, and what is appropriate and what is not appropriate when making those oaths. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EWhen I first heard of this idea, I thought perhaps this has some merit. There is no doubt that the Treaty of Waitangi actually has a very, very special and significant place in New Zealand\u2019s history. No one is doubting that. No one is doubting that it was significant and that it is important that we take cognisance of it. As the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations has said already this evening, he has spent a good part of his time here, in that role, settling some of those grievances that are around the Treaty of Waitangi. So, absolutely, is this Government committed to the Treaty of Waitangi? Yes. Is it committed to settling grievances around it? Yes, it is. Is it committed to ensuring that our laws and our statutes reflect aspects of the Treaty of Waitangi? Absolutely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EBut where I started to come unravelled in my thinking\u2014some of these people think I was coming unravelled in my thinking about this\u2014and where it was that I actually started to have some doubts about this was the idea, the notion, that people would have an ability to make an oath in accordance with the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi. With all due respect to the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations and Attorney-General, who obviously has a very clear understanding of the principles, actually, there are a lot of people who do not. In fact, I was one of those people and probably still am, to a certain degree. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EIn the year 1995 I took probably what was my most interesting ever university paper. It was 52.55 and something in the title referred to the Treaty of Waitangi. It was taken by Sir Mason Durie, who was the best lecturer I ever had. I had to do a very concise assignment one day, on the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi. The difficulty I had at the time was choosing what principles to do. Because it was only to be concise, I elected to use the three that were highlighted in the Royal Commission on Social Policy of 1988, and these are the ones that are often commonly accepted by people: Partnership, Protection, and Participation. So I focused my essay on those three. Well, I got a C\u002B and not from Sir Mason Durie but from the guy who was the tutor for that paper. But anyway I got a C\u002B. Thankfully, I made up for it at the end of the year because I got an A-. I got marked down because I picked only those three principles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EThe issue I have with this bill is not the importance of the Treaty of Waitangi in our society. It is important. It is the vagaries and the lack of understanding by the general populace of what is meant by the principles. There have been some good arguments put forward as to why this bill is not necessary. I support those arguments and believe that going forward we do not need to incorporate this. We need to have oaths and affirmations and declarations that are easily understood, they are black and white, and they have no level of ambiguity, and so for those reasons I and this side of the House will be voting against this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b59d03eb96a8434b8c9be662add9d9f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b59d03eb96a8434b8c9be662add9d9f2\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa; ng\u0101 mihi mahana tino tautoko e hoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Deputy Speaker of the House, and to us all; warm acknowledgments to you, colleague, I truly endorse you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI really want to start with some information from a November 2004 Cabinet Office document that is entitled \u201CNew Zealand\u2019s constitution \u2013 past, present and future\u201D. Paragraph 6 of that particular document says: \u201CNew Zealand is one of only three countries in the world without a full and entrenched written constitution (the others are Britain and Israel).\u201D What it says is that the law in our country is sourced from the following: the Queen, various statutes with constitutional significance\u2014they include the Constitution Act, the Electoral Act, the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, and also the Magna Carta. It also says that the courts and the Treaty of Waitangi form New Zealand\u2019s constitution. I bring that up because the interesting point to raise, after Minister Finlayson\u2019s comment, is based on the fact that the law is something that we all swear to, and if that includes the Treaty, well, it actually also includes the Queen, and we do swear allegiance to the Queen. Therein begins my assessment of this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo in 1957 the Oaths and Declarations Act was created. It was the Act that thereby gave us, as office holders, the words to say when we were elected to certain offices. Forty-eight years later, on 17 May 2005, we actually decided to review it. The Minister at that time was Phil Goff; he was the Minister of Justice. We did that, through the Oaths Modernisation Bill, because we thought it was about time that we modernised that piece of legislation. What did that result in? It actually resulted in the affirmation. What else did that result in? It resulted in the use of Te Reo. So now, when we come into this House at the beginning of each term, we can say the oath or the affirmation in English or in M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EAn interesting thing that happened during that process was we actually did have a discussion document and we did ask the public. The public did feed back. They said that, yes, they wanted to keep the reference to the Queen, and that, yes, they wanted to keep the reference to religious beliefs. So some of us do say \u201Cso help me God\u201D after we say the oath. That is great. That is fine. So to say that the oath does not evolve, or it does not reflect society is actually completely incorrect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWhat is an oath? Let us get to definitions. An oath is a solemn promise. It is also a commitment to one\u2019s future action or behaviour. That is what an oath is. That is what we all swear when we come into this wonderful institution that we are all so privileged to represent. We are here for the people of Aotearoa New Zealand. All we ask, and, I think, all they ask of us, is that we evolve with society. I think that the proposition in this piece of legislation is something that merits support at first reading\u2014I really do. Things that have been brought up\u2014we can fix them. That is what the select committee process is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI actually think we are completely undermining this institution by not supporting this piece of legislation. The interesting thing is\u2014if you look back to 2005, guess who voted against modernising the oaths? The National Party did. It did not support creating an affirmation. It did not support enabling us to say either the oath or the affirmation in Te Reo. For them at that time, reading through the Hansard, it was all about republicanism. We were on the path to republicanism. That seemed to be its biggest issue for not supporting\u2014after 48 years\u2014a piece of legislation that this Parliament supported. It was a Government bill; Labour led that process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EMy colleagues, I just cannot for the life of me see why the National Government will not support the piece of legislation that Marama Fox has brought to this House. That would enable the select committee to fix up any issues. But, at the end of the day, give us the choice as New Zealanders to pledge allegiance to the Treaty of Waitangi. We could get rid of the principles then. Let us all just have an ability to pledge allegiance to Te Tiriti o Waitangi. So I will take this opportunity: I pledge allegiance to Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b59c42c84abd4a5393b252c0ce60fef3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b59c42c84abd4a5393b252c0ce60fef3\u0022\u003EMARAMA FOX (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am a little bit bemused. In fact, I wonder at this House in 2016\u2014how we can continue to bathe in the lack of understanding and ignorance that engulfs our country in respect of the Treaty. For all of these people to stand up and say: \u201CIt is not necessary; it\u2019s in the law. It\u2019s not necessary; we don\u2019t understand what the principles are.\u201D Educate yourself. We have been told by the Hon Chris Finlayson that he has clearly articulated it for the benefit for all New Zealand, and we are eternally grateful!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EMr Pita Paraone, there is no substance to your argument in not supporting this bill tonight. Your argument is, in fact, more critical and political than anything of any substance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EMr Nuk Korako stood up and said: \u201CI\u2019m committed. I\u2019m committed to carrying out my duties in accordance with the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi.\u201D So then let us take an oath to say so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EDespite the fact that it is enshrined in the law, until 1975\u2014as pointed out by my colleague Mr Rurawhe\u2014there was great debate about whether or not we should even recognise the Treaty. It was declared a nullity in the law. So now we have it, and the true expression of rangatiratanga for the people who are partnered to the Treaty should be allowing them to take an oath to do so. But people say it would confuse us. Well, tell me what is not confusing about swearing an oath on the Bible, or swearing an oath to God? Tell me how many Christian religions there are who argue about the face of God and what that might look like? Yet, how do we uphold that? We stand up here and swear an oath of allegiance\u2014doing so\u2014and that is not confusing? We do not hold somebody to a standard different to someone who does not swear an oath to God. We do not stand up here and say: \u201CBut the Queen is higher than God, therefore you can admit God, but not the Queen.\u201D And we do not find that confusing? The ignorance that this House continues to be bathed in just defies belief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EThis country is held up as a beacon to the rest of the indigenous peoples of the world, as a way forward because it is founded on a treaty. Today I gave an interview on Sky TV in Australia as they debated whether or not the Aboriginal people in Australia should have a treaty. They go: \u201CLook at you, New Zealand, you have one\u2014aren\u2019t you great? Haven\u2019t you come so far.\u201D Well, obviously not far enough\u2014not far enough. I am disappointed by Nuk. In fact, I think that he must have choked on his words\u2014Mr Korako\u2014as he struggled to say them today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EMy colleague Jo Hayes, whom I sit next to, talked about the confusion of those who might and those who will not, and yet confusions over the interpretations of the Bible exist. Do you know that the Judicature Modernisation Bill is about to come up? In the modernisation of that bill they wanted to take out the Treaty clause. Because we as a party of independent M\u0101ori voices uphold the principles of the Treaty, we went to the Minister and implored her to retain that clause, to ensure that anything relating to this in that bill does relate to the Treaty. She has put the clause back in. Imagine if we were not here to do that\u2014imagine if we just left it because \u201Cit\u2019s in the law; we don\u2019t need it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3d9fd88-4715-419d-be08-e1c4eda7d09e\u0022\u003EWe do need it. We need to show that we are progressive. We need to show that we are committed. I challenge every member of this House who has sworn to vote for this bill\u2014the next time, when they come to swear an oath of allegiance\u2014to stand up and do so to the Treaty whether or not we are thrown out for it. It is abhorrent to me that we cannot do this simple thing. I am disappointed in this House, and its continual bathing in ignorance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b43d7121d4924ac8b8885f60bba68c7b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Oaths and Declarations (Endorsing the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; M\u0101ori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 71\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; New Zealand First 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aadaebe225004d58bc3e97d5cd2132bf\u0022\u003ESocial Security (Stopping Benefit Payments for Offenders who Repeatedly Fail to Comply with Community Sentences) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5fc4520491a4ed88d38a4e8aa7fc2d2\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed2ec095d43f4abba282a7ef224795a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed2ec095d43f4abba282a7ef224795a2\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Social Security (Stopping Benefit Payments for Offenders who Repeatedly Fail to Comply with Community Sentences) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Social Services Committee to consider this bill. It is with great pleasure that I get to make the opening speech on this bill. I certainly look forward to hearing from my good friend and colleague Kelvin Davis, who I am sure will get up in support of the bill. I want to acknowledge the chair of the Social Services Committee, my good friend Alfred Ngaro\u2014and I see his deputy, Matthew Doocey, is in the House as well\u2014who will be receiving the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Social Security Act of 1964. It enables the Department of Corrections to instruct the Ministry of Social Development to withhold all or part of a person\u2019s benefit where that person has repeatedly failed to comply with a community-based sentence. The bill seeks to provide the Department of Corrections with an additional tool, short of prosecution, to encourage compliance with community-based sentences. By withholding benefit payments after a prior warning, this bill will enable the department to manage offenders without burdening the court system. This bill will operate alongside a new measure implemented by the Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Act of 2013, which has effectively managed persons with outstanding warrants for their arrest by withholding their benefit payments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EWhen this bill is implemented the Department of Corrections will be able to instruct the Ministry of Social Development to withhold part of or all of a benefit paid to an offender. The Department of Corrections will also be able to instruct the Ministry of Social Development to restore benefit payments if it is satisfied that the offender is complying with their sentence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe bill enables the Department of Corrections to give a written warning if it reasonably believes (1) that it has exhausted all options other than prosecution in attempting to get that person to comply with that community-based sentence or instruction, or (2) that the person breaches or fails to comply with any term of the community-based sentence, or (3) fails to comply with an instruction from the Department of Corrections that relates to their community-based sentence. The warning must instruct the person to comply with a further instruction and warn that non-compliance with the instruction may result in the withholding of any benefit. A second written warning may be issued 14 days after the original warning. The bill provides that if the person fails to comply with the instruction within 14 days of the date of receiving their second warning to comply with the instruction, the department may instruct the Ministry of Social Development to withhold all or part of their benefit payment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESection 17 of the Sentencing Amendment Act 2007, No. 27, states that in handing down a community sentence a court must take regard of the impact on an offender\u2019s future work and living skills. Further prosecution for non-compliance will negatively impact the offender\u2019s future work and living skills; hence, prosecuting an offender for non-compliance with a community sentence defies the initial purpose of the sentence in the first place. The bill considers the potential impact, both negative and positive, on the offender and their family. The deduction amount is to be determined by the Department of Corrections. However, the department may not deduct more than 50 percent of the gross benefit where that person is responsible for the care of a dependent child. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EOne of the intentions of this bill is to decrease the likelihood of offenders going through the court system again for non-compliance. As of Monday, 8 August there were 28,562 offenders on community sentences. Up to 50 percent of offenders on a community-based sentence are receiving some form of benefit. This bill is in line with National\u2019s welfare reforms, which saw an offender with an outstanding warrant to arrest having their benefit suspended until they cleared that warrant. I believe this process should be extended to include those offenders who repeatedly fail to comply with their community sentence. This is a bill that is a sensible and much-needed addition to our current system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI would also like to very quickly refer to the advice that I received from the office of the Hon Christopher Finlayson, as our Attorney-General. It relates to the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990. It states: \u201CThe proposed amendment is similar to an amendment made in 2012 to the Social Security Act, which enabled the chief executive of the ministry to suspend a person\u2019s benefit for failure to comply with a court warrant. Although that amendment possibly raised a prima facie issue of discrimination, it was considered that it was not discriminatory or, alternatively, that the discrimination was justified.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe bill\u2019s objective, to ensure compliance with community-based sentences, is sufficiently important to justify some limitation on the right to freedom from discrimination. New sections 183 and 185 of the Social Security Act, inserted by clause 5 of this bill, which limit the right of freedom from discrimination, are rationally connected to the objective of incentivising compliance with community-based sentences or related instructions issued by the department. This is because removing entitlements creates an incentive for compliance. Further, the limit operates under the rationale that taxpayers should not be financially assisting persons not complying with community-based sentences or related instructions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ENew sections 183 and 185 impair the right to freedom from discrimination no more than is reasonably necessary because (a) compliance with a community-based sentence is a court-imposed penalty, and any individual subject to the sentence has an obligation to comply with its terms; (b) the benefit withholding measure is imposed only once an individual has not complied with both the community sentence or related instruction and two written warning notices that have been issued; (c) where the payment of a person\u2019s benefit is withheld and the department is thereafter satisfied that that person is complying with the sentence or instruction, the department may instruct the ministry to restore that benefit; and (d) the bill prevents the department from issuing instructions to reduce a person\u2019s benefit by more than 50 percent of the gross benefit where the person is responsible for the care of a dependent child\u2014as I stated earlier in my speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe limitation is proportionate to the importance of the bill\u2019s objective because of several safeguards: new section 184 requires the department to issue written warning notices only when it reasonably believes it has exhausted all options other than prosecution in attempting to get a person to comply with a community-based sentence or instruction and when that person has, in fact, breached or failed to comply with that sentence or instruction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EAlthough there is no right of appeal the department must issue two warning notices before it can instruct the ministry to withhold the benefit, and an affected beneficiary may bring judicial review proceedings in respect of the department\u2019s decisions. It is therefore considered, to the extent that the new sections 183 and 185 do engage the right to freedom from discrimination, the limitation is justified under section 5 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. I am very happy to commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd395cfa4cfd4671a78c2b1bd2900af2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd395cfa4cfd4671a78c2b1bd2900af2\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour\u2014Kelston):\u003C/span\u003E We have given this bill much consideration, and, as most people in the House would know, when it comes to members\u2019 bills we are actually quite fair-minded and usually are quite open to the idea of a bill going to select committee so that some consideration can be given to it. But, actually, after going over this and having some discussions with colleagues like Kelvin Davis and other colleagues, we have decided that this bill is a waste of time and does not deserve the attention of the Social Services Committee, so we will not be supporting this to select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EFirstly, the reason that this does not deserve the time of the Social Services Committee is that, actually, we have got a lot of other major issues that need to be considered at that select committee. We have got 305,000 kids living in poverty in this country. We have got a major housing problem on our hands. We have got a complete overhaul of Child, Youth and Family that is going through the select committee at the moment, and that member brings us a bill that will address a handful of people who may have issues. He is trying to use the stick on them when, in fact, the real implication of what that member is offering up is just further stigmatisation of beneficiaries\u2014an absolute waste of the select committee\u2019s time\u2014so we are not going to support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIf this issue was of significance to the Government, then we would not be seeing it brought here by Mark Mitchell. We would have seen the Minister of Corrections or the Minister for Social Development taking it through as a Government bill, not having it presented here through Mark Mitchell. I do wonder what the backbench members over there think. You know, they are sitting there, they have got time on their hands, and they get the opportunity to put a bill in the ballot and to make real change to the lives of New Zealanders. Then this guy, Mark Mitchell, is like: \u201CI\u2019m going to put in a bill that is stopping benefit payments for offenders who repeatedly fail to comply with community sentences.\u201D This really implies that this is a major issue but we know that, actually, it is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESomeone should tell Mark Mitchell that, actually, the vast majority of beneficiaries are not criminals. They are not going through the criminal justice system. This is not a big issue, Mr Mitchell, and so I am sorry that someone has given you the impression that it is, and that you took the time to draft this meaningless bill and bring it to the House. But, as I said, we will not be supporting this bill to select committee. And I do hope that other political parties in the House have the same level of common sense and will not be supporting this bill, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIt is really worrying that we see the lines blurred so often by the National Government. Here we have an issue around corrections. We know it has a problem with corrections\u2014it has really struggled to look after that portfolio, and so its only way of trying to address that is to do it through the social development system. So National cannot look after the corrections portfolio\u2014we know the National Government has failed on that front\u2014and so it is like: \u201COK, what do we do, how do we fix this? OK, we punish people through the social development portfolio and that will fix everything.\u201D Well, actually, it will not. As I said, this is such a minute issue that it is embarrassing that we are even having a debate on it in the House tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere are other major considerations that we should have a conversation about in the debate, and one of those is one that many NGOs, social services, and children\u2019s advocacy groups have brought up, and that is with regards to the sanctions that have been imposed in lots of other different areas, and the implications that those sanctions have on children. It is really unfortunate that the whole time the National Government has been in, pushing its reforms, implementing these types of sanctions, it has never stood back at any time to actually monitor the implications of those sanctions on those children. That is concerning. And here they are looking to roll out another raft of sanctions in an area that is completely unrelated to social development, and undermines what our social security system was set up for in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI am not going to give this any more attention. I am not even going to let my speech get to the bell of 8 minutes, because this bill does not deserve further consideration, and should not be allowed to continue to the select committee. I do hope that the next bill Mark Mitchell puts in has a little bit more substance, and is a little bit more meaningful to New Zealanders, than what we have before us tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00228cb22d84bc6b41ceac9da7146152eb12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cb22d84bc6b41ceac9da7146152eb12\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on this bill, and I want to acknowledge my good friend and colleague Mark Mitchell, whose name this bill is in. It is the Social Security (Stopping Benefit Payments for Offenders who Repeatedly Fail to Comply with Community Sentences) Amendment Bill, under the name of Mark Mitchell, the National MP for Rodney. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThere have been some very unkind comments about the sincerity, and the intent, of Mr Mark Mitchell in regard to this bill. We know that his past history is that he has been involved in the police as a dog handler, and he did actually tweet about an incident then\u2014there was a moment there\u2014but he was very involved in the police. So he knows the importance of the role that both the police and the Department of Corrections play in our communities. I do think the comments were very unkind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker, Carmel Sepuloni, spoke about the lack of support from Labour. I know that Kelvin Davis, the Opposition spokesman on corrections, actually looked at us, and in his eyes he was saying: \u201CI actually support this bill. I support this bill.\u201D In fact, that member, I must say, goes to very unusual lengths to investigate the role of the Department of Corrections. It was some 3 months ago that we did the Shave for a Cure, for Leukaemia and Blood Cancer New Zealand. Both Mark Mitchell and I believe it was a way for him to have an inside job, a way of getting into the corrections system, into Serco, so he can get some added information. I am not sure whether it worked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EBut back to the scope of the bill. We do know that there are 28,562 offenders who are on community service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244c0a290f3244f25ac0bed79313a396e\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d6b41603eab4940a005b0f8a1d930b2\u0022\u003EALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: There are 28,562. We are talking about those with a non-custodial sentence. We are talking about those whom the court felt it was appropriate not to incarcerate. Instead, it gave them a non-custodial sentence that gives them an opportunity. It mitigates the offending, allows them to have a process of rehabilitation, and allows them to reintegrate into the community and have a normal way of life. At the same time it implies that there are some conditions that are really important. Those are often bail conditions. Most of us would agree with that. In fact, all of us would agree that that is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI cannot quite understand why there is not the support, because this is a tool that, in the hands of the Department of Corrections, along with the Ministry of Social Development, ensures that there is some compliance. There are those out there who say that this is not right. In fact, the member who spoke previously said that this is\u2014again\u2014about beneficiary bashing and being unkind. But, in actual fact, the member needs to realise that we are talking about those who have offended, who actually have broken the law, but have been given an opportunity, with a community sentence, to be able to comply, reintegrate back into the communities, and become normal citizens in our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EWe are talking about a situation where they do not comply\u2014not just the first time and not the second time, but the third time. We are talking about three times when there has been non-compliance. We are talking about a tool that the Department of Corrections has tried to engage. It has tried to ensure that they have complied. When does it get to a point where even Kelvin Davis will know that putting this bill through is simply saying: \u201CYou have got to be compliant.\u201D? In other words: \u201CIf you do the crime, you have to do the time. If you\u2019re not doing the time, then you have to comply. \u201D That is the simple basis of this bill. OK? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EAll this bill does is amend the Social Security Act 1964 to ensure that they comply. What is wrong with this bill? Nothing\u2014absolutely nothing. I would like the next speaker from the Labour side to tell us the essence of what is wrong with this bill. They cannot. Instead, they go outside the scope of the bill and fluff around on a whole lot of other ideas, but when it comes to the intent of the bill, there is nothing wrong. [Interruption] Kris Faafoi knows that Mark Mitchell is right about this bill. This is a good bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI finish off with a little bit of the facts and figures. Here are some numbers for you. In 2014, the bill that Mark Mitchell talked about in regard to the welfare reforms, for the social sanctions, ensured that there were 2,804 benefits suspended When you think about a figure of 2,000-odd you see that this is not hard or mean-spirited. This is ensuring that we make people comply. As the chairperson of the Social Services Committee, I look forward to receiving Mark Mitchell\u2019s bill. I look forward to ensuring that we do due diligence, hear the submissions throughout this process, and ensure that it returns back to the House in a way that will make a difference. It may be a small and simple bill, but what we are doing, along with with Mark Mitchell and his support, will truly make a difference. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022b991cedfc64c41cbb552857538ed69b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b991cedfc64c41cbb552857538ed69b7\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the Social Security (Stopping Benefit Payments for Offenders who Repeatedly Fail to Comply with Community Sentences) Amendment Bill. The Green Party wholeheartedly opposes this bill, and I share the sentiments of my Labour colleague Carmel Sepuloni about what a waste of this House\u2019s time this bill is. The issues facing the Social Services Committee\u2014this should not be taking up our time. Like so much legislation introduced by this Government, this bill is more about image than it is about content, and certainly more than it is about care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis bill promises to give the Department of Corrections the power to instruct the Ministry of Social Development to stop benefits to people who have been sentenced to community-based sentences who may have failed to comply with the terms of that sentence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebbb5518d8e941dca5c2dff27da6adfa\u0022\u003EAlastair Scott\u003C/span\u003E: Who may have? Who have failed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ed66fc2c59c4bb0972ef2eb2a69f227\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or who have failed\u2014but it will be determined by a parole officer whether there are reasonable or unreasonable grounds, according to this legislation, when it would otherwise be decided by a judge. This puts court decisions in the hands of parole officers. It is changing the basis of the way our legal system works, I would argue. It also puts in place a double sentence, so that somebody who fails to comply who is in paid work will not get their paid work taken away from them, but for people who are beneficiaries it will take away their ability to feed themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI really want to just address how misnamed this bill is as a social security bill. We have to recognise that the point of social security is that we have a safety net through which no one can fall. We are not living in Victorian times, when there was a concept that only the deserving were able to have an income. We have learnt as a society that when we have those basics provided only to people whom we believe deserve them, we all suffer. We end up with people committing crimes to be able to feed themselves. We end up with more people on the street. What this bill does is another deep attack on our social security system. It is bringing back Victorian values into our society. It is completely unworthy of this House and of our time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI really want to recognise, as well, that there was a comment made before of \u201CWell, these are people who have offended. They have committed crimes.\u201D I want to point out that other people who have committed crimes and offended who are put in prison are given a warm roof over their head and three meals a day, because we recognise as a society that it would be inhumane for that not to happen. We have prison inspectorate systems set up to try to enforce that, because we recognise that as a society all of us are less human when other people are treated inhumanely in our care. Well, why should those who are sent to prison be given more protections than these people? When we take away people\u2019s right to an income, we put every single thing in their life at risk. We force them into places where they have no other choices, and that destabilises our entire society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe Green Party wants no part of this. I would recognise that this, a Government that has characterised beneficiaries as work-shy, baby factories, bad parents, drug takers, and criminals\u2014even this Government would not support this bill as its own. That is how bad this piece of legislation is. I am very sorry, Mark Mitchell. I quite liked you, but this bill is rubbish and the Greens will not be supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022d64fbb2a29d04ebd9749221732008be7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d64fbb2a29d04ebd9749221732008be7\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I am feeling slightly uncomfortable in the middle of something there. It is a pleasure to rise in support of my colleague Mark Mitchell on his bill, the Social Security (Stopping Benefit Payments for Offenders who Repeatedly Fail to Comply with Community Sentences) Amendment Bill, in its first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge the very hard-working member of Parliament for Rodney. I had the experience of going up there for a day and joining Mr Mitchell. We visited many health and social care services. It was very apparent from the response that we received from the people on the streets and the health and social care workers\u2014the acknowledgment of the work he does in his electorate. He is someone who is known as caring for the people in Rodney, and he cares for all people in Rodney. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI would also like to acknowledge Alfred Ngaro as the chair of the Social Services Committee. Although it has been pointed out by the Opposition that it is a very busy select committee, it would be fair to say he is dispensing the work with ease, and very much we have got time and space for this very important bill. So I am looking forward to it coming into the select committee, where we will get submissions and kick it round the legislative process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EBut let us be very clear. This bill is about crime, and this Government is tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime. Let us be very clear that criminal behaviour is a blight on our communities. There are many small towns in my electorate of Waimakariri and they talk to me about how all it takes is a few people in those small towns to participate in this criminal behaviour and it is a blight on the whole community. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars in public sector expense, expense to private individuals, and very much there are the social and emotional costs to those people in those small towns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo what we are doing today with this very succinct bill is enabling people to do the work that they are employed to do\u2014giving them the tools that enable them to make a difference in those people\u2019s lives. Because I have no doubt that the people whom we are talking about today do not want to carry on with this criminal behaviour. They want to get rescued from this pattern of behaviour. For some people it is about compulsion. Unfortunately for some people they hit rock bottom and then it is the only way up. For some people it is about compulsion. This process will allow this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022283c0d42b06d4ac38671923292ed8e90\u0022\u003EKris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: What process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eaeffda8a8544249f13764d18db4c29\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: When we look at the process that they ask about, across the House\u2014will they bother to read the bill\u2014it is a very clear process. People will be given a warning only if all other avenues have been exhausted, only if there have been breaches of or failures in their community-based sentence, and only if they fail to comply with instructions. I would call that a very clear process. Not only that but they get another warning. So they get two warnings, and then it takes 14 days. If that is not a careful process I do not know what is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo people understand very clearly what is expected of them. Because in the end what we are talking about here is rehabilitation and public safety. So that Opposition, in voting down this bill, does not believe in rehabilitation and does not believe in public safety. That is why I support this bill and commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9d10b2abc3f41179ea79d0af9d9c670\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9d10b2abc3f41179ea79d0af9d9c670\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Social Security (Stopping Benefit Payments for Offenders who Repeatedly Fail to Comply with Community Sentences) Amendment Bill. I just want to make it quite clear that New Zealand First will not be supporting this bill through this first reading. There are a couple of very important reasons why we are not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EFirst of all, before I get into those reasons, I would like to make it clear that this is not a social security matter. This is a corrections matter and it should not be brought to the Social Services Committee. The fact is that every single National member who has spoken on this bill has spent 99 percent of their time talking about corrections matters, talking about community-based sentences, community detention, or the compliance. The only words they mention about social security are in terms of when they take the benefit off them. That is the only time that they speak about social services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThis is not a social services matter; it is a crime matter. But once again this is a reactive policy from the Government and, basically, it is an admission of failure. It is reacting to the Government\u2019s failed law and order policies, and it has to come up with this type of legislation to fill the gap\u2014reacting once again. The fact is it is reacting to the consequences of its failed policies and the consequences of its failed policies are the consequences of those offenders who are repeatedly breaking their community sentences. That is the purpose of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe second reason why New Zealand First will be opposing this bill is that the Government is using the basic safety net that is provided as a tool for punishment. There is a minimum social floor that the Government and the State provides for our citizens, and the Government decided to use that as a punishment. That is the second reason why New Zealand First is not going to be supporting this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EHere is a question for Mr Mitchell: what happens to those people who are on community-based sentences who fail to comply but are not on a benefit? How many warnings do you give them? One? Two? Three warnings\u2014three warnings? So if you have got such great interventions and processes in play that stop these people who are on community sentences and are not on benefits from reoffending in the first place, why do you have to extend and make an extra one for people who are on a benefit? Answer that question\u2014answer that question. The fact is that, like I said, this legislation is an admission of failure by this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ECommunity sentences are a privilege for those who are given community sentences instead of a jail term. The fact is if they abuse that privilege they should go to jail. They should be prosecuted\u2014that is plain and simple\u2014not given one warning, not given two warnings, not given three warnings. This Government wants to stand up and say that it is tough on crime, but it is giving one written warning, 14 days later they are giving the second warning, and then only the third time do they strike. This Government is soft on crime. Just like the National Party is soft on crime, and just like the Labour Party is soft on crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe fact is that crime has been increasing in New Zealand and the reoffending rates have been increasing, and this Government has increased the number of offenders who have been given community-based sentences. Ever since 2008, this Government has increased the number of sentences that have been community-based. But I would just like to look very quickly at the explanatory note because it highlights quite a number of the flaws in the bill itself, and the actual reason for the bill. It is talking about \u201Cwithout burdening the court system\u201D. So the bill wants some other steps in play without prosecuting and burdening the court system. That is the real reason this legislation is here: to stop the court system being even fuller than what it is at the moment because of the failing law and order policies of this Government. The priority is not justice, it is not about accountability; it is about keeping them out of the court system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EOne last thing, it says here that they will be kind enough not to take more than 50 percent of the gross benefit for anyone with a child. I would like to know how the Government expects an individual or a family to live, when they have got a benefit and half of that is taken away. I want any National member\u2014backbencher or Mark Mitchell, the author of this bill\u2014to stand up and say how that individual would survive on half of the benefit. This bill will not be supported by New Zealand First. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022 data-id=\u0022780b7793618f41b081f4e5fcb1f6dd80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022780b7793618f41b081f4e5fcb1f6dd80\u0022\u003EJONO NAYLOR (National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it has been an interesting evening so far, when we have been debating this bill. I have heard people from the other side of the House say we are being too hard on criminals, and then we have heard from New Zealand First members saying we are too soft on criminals. We have just had a really interesting challenge from my colleague Darroch Ball who sort of dared any of us on this side to say how somebody would survive on half of their benefit, or survive on none of their benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EI think that is the point, actually. If somebody needs to take responsibility, as most people do, for ensuring that they continue to have income coming into their house, then, actually, there are some responsibilities that go with that. What we expect of those people is that they actually comply with their community sentence, and then they will never, ever, ever, ever have to worry about that issue that Mr Ball has just suggested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003ELet us start with talking about offenders a little bit. Many offenders who are found guilty will find themselves in prison, and they will find themselves there because of the seriousness of their crime. There needs to be some sort of deterrent for them ever reoffending, or it might be for the sake of public safety or otherwise. But there are other offenders who in our wisdom over the years as a society, we have realised will actually do better by having a community sentence of some description, because their chances of being rehabilitated and reoffending are lessened than if they go to prison. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003ESo we have community-based sentences for some people. But it is right and it is fair for society to expect that those people who have had the privilege of not going to jail and have had the privilege of actually serving their sentence in the community actually comply with that sentence. When someone is in prison it is pretty easy to enforce the rules and say what you can and cannot do, and that kind of thing. With community-based sentences there are fewer tools available to ensure that people will comply. This bill is about giving the Department of Corrections another tool in its tool box to actually ensure that people comply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003ELet us think about why we want people to comply with those provisions. Why do people have provisions in their community sentences? The first one that I thought of was to ensure their best chances of rehabilitation. We put those conditions on them and they meet them, because we believe that by meeting those conditions we stand the best chance of rehabilitating them. Yet what I am hearing from the other side of the House is: \u201CLet\u2019s not make them, let\u2019s not force them, let\u2019s not make sure that they comply with those.\u201D So, actually, by voting against this bill, what I hear from the other side of the House is: \u201CWe don\u2019t care about rehabilitation; we don\u2019t want to see these people rehabilitated, because we are not going to give probation officers the tools to have at their disposal to ensure that people will comply.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EThe other reason we have those provisions in community sentences is to help ensure public safety. Therefore, why would we not want people to comply? Oh! So maybe the people on the other side of the House say: \u201CWe\u2019re not going to give probation officers another tool in their tool box to ensure that people comply with their community sentences because we are not concerned about public safety.\u201D Well, on this side of the House we are concerned with the rehabilitation of offenders, to ensure that they stand less chance of offending in the future. We are concerned with public safety, and we will do what we can\u2014we will use the tools that are available to us\u2014to ensure that people are being rehabilitated properly; that there is going to be public safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EThey do not just get that thrown on them straight away. As has been well documented, there are warnings in place and so this is not thrust upon them. We are not forcing people to not get their benefit. Those people are making that choice for themselves. At the point where they say \u201CWe are not going to comply with the orders that the court has put on us\u201D, they are making the choice themselves not to bring income into their own household. I am not going to stand here and make excuses for that, because those people need to take responsibility for themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225634618f-04f4-4f2c-a4bb-6ec0edeb2bf5\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill is coming to the Social Services Committee. Why? It is because this bill is an amendment to the Social Security Act. That committee is a hard-working committee that will not shy away from hard work\u2014we are quite happy to engage with this. Yes, primarily the bill is to do with the Department of Corrections, but it is going to make an amendment to the Social Security Act, which we are more than happy to take our parliamentary responsibility for. I look forward to this bill going through, coming to our committee, and ensuring that New Zealand will be a safer, better place because this legislation is in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a538dbcf183a4a06b9bf3e0bbd5c57b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a538dbcf183a4a06b9bf3e0bbd5c57b2\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Assistant Speaker, I believe I have got 5 minutes, and I have to say that it is going to take me all of 5 minutes just to read out the title of this bill: the Social Security (Stopping Benefit Payments for Offenders who Repeatedly Fail to Comply with Community Sentences) Amendment Bill. I stand with a heavy heart because one of my heroes in the golden oldies Parliamentary Rugby Team and one of our esteemed co-captains, Mark Mitchell\u2014I thought that when he was not in the House he would be out there on the streets, pounding the pavements, working on his aerobic fitness, and getting a bit of bulk in the thighs, definition in the abs, and a bit of mass in the shoulders. But, no, instead he has been wasting his time instructing some poor official in the Ministry of Social Development to write his speech for him. I must admit\u2014I will give him credit\u2014he delivered it well. Well done there, Mr Mitchell. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ELet me say that this bill is a total waste of time. All Mr Mitchell is doing is just heaping more and more woes and responsibilities on the poor Department of Corrections. They are the people who are going to have to administer this. They are the people who are going to have to round up all of those people who have been jaywalking, riding bicycles without helmets, and riding their cycles on the footpath. Those poor people who go down to the local park on a Saturday while the probation service at the Department of Corrections watches over them as they rake the sandpit, rake leaves, and trim trees and all those sorts of things\u2014those are the people who are going to be affected by this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EBut what is so inhumane about the bill is the cutting of these poor people\u2019s benefits by half if they have a child and cutting the benefit entirely if they do not have children. I just wonder why Mr Mitchell has not written into the bill: \u201CCorrections\u2019 latest punishment for people who don\u2019t conform to whatever they are meant to conform to\u201D. Maybe the Department of Corrections has been trialling this on the side and it might be an amendment to the bill later on, but the department today is being had up because it has been tying prisoners to the beds\u2014tying prisoners to beds. Now, would that not be a lot kinder to poor beneficiaries\u2014that instead of cutting their benefits, they just tied them to the beds? This has been happening in New Zealand\u2019s prisons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI have to congratulate the Chief Ombudsman, Judge Peter Boshier, on the great work he is doing. He is rapidly becoming a superhero of mine because he is holding this Government to account. He is making it actually accountable for some of its silly decisions, such as tying prisoners to their beds. This poor prisoner actually had mental health issues, and so he has been punished for being unwell, and that is just another example of this terrible Government\u2014an absolutely shocking Government\u2014having its priorities wrong and punishing people instead of helping them, in particular this poor guy who was tied down simply because he was unwell. The prison inspectorate is now being made to account for this. The prison inspectorate was meant to actually write weekly reports to the Ombudsman on this incident, and yet it did not. I think the prison inspectorate has got a lot to hide. I asked the Department of Corrections if I could go and talk to the prison inspectorate last week on a totally unrelated matter, and I was blocked at every turn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThis Government has got its priorities wrong. When it could be dealing with the housing crisis and making sure people are not living in those mobile apartments\u2014also known as motor vehicles\u2014when it could be putting money into Te Puea Marae and other real issues that are facing New Zealand, we have my hero, the co-captain of the golden oldies Parliamentary Rugby Team, presenting silly bills like this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022d11c540cf6f14c0eb91c43c1c9e69fa3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d11c540cf6f14c0eb91c43c1c9e69fa3\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great opportunity to speak on the first reading of the Social Security (Stopping Benefit Payments for Offenders who Repeatedly Fail to Comply with Community Sentences) Amendment Bill in the name of Mark Mitchell. I would like to start by congratulating Mark Mitchell on this bill. As far as I know, Mark Mitchell was in the police force before becoming a member of Parliament, and this reflects a lot on what police officers go through in their day-to-day life to keep crime down. There are people who keep causing trouble again and again and then we reach a point where we start thinking about other avenues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThis bill is to send a message to offenders, especially repeat offenders. It is important that we enforce compliance for community-based sentences. And to the member from the New Zealand First Party Darroch Ball, I want to clarify for him that it is the Ministry of Social Development that pays benefits, not the Department of Corrections, so it is relevant to the Social Services Committee. This bill will enable the Department of Corrections to instruct the Ministry of Social Development to withhold all or part of a person\u2019s benefit when that person has repeatedly failed to comply with a community-based sentence. This National Government is highly committed to keeping crime down, and it is because of our commitment that crime is so low. Crime is low because we are harsh on criminals. Yes, we are harsh on criminals and we know how to use our resources efficiently. We are also ensuring that our justice system is focused on the rights of victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThis bill will use benefit payments as a tool to improve compliance with community-based sentences. We do not want offenders to reoffend. We do not want to have more victims of crime. This bill will withhold benefit payments from those who repeatedly breach the conditions of their community-based sentences. It is really important that we ensure compliance, and by giving this power to the Department of Corrections, the Department of Corrections will be able to manage offenders at its level without sending all those cases to judges, because we do not want to burden the court system unnecessarily. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIt does not seem just that we keep paying benefits to criminals on the run. But this bill is quite fair to criminals too, because they will be getting written notices. There will be enough warnings before their benefit payments are deducted, and also they will be provided help to comply with the conditions of their community-based sentence. After all that, if they still do not comply only then will their benefit payments be deducted. Also, benefit payments will not be deducted by more than 50 percent of their gross benefit if they have a dependent child or dependent children. So, overall, this bill is quite fair on both sides. This bill also provides for the Department of Corrections to inform the Ministry of Social Development if people start complying so their benefit can be reinstated. It is not a permanent reduction that is going to happen to these people, so the payment will be reinstated if they start complying with their conditions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI fully support using welfare payment as a tool to improve compliance and also to encourage people to comply with their community-based sentence. The benefit system is to help people\u2014those who are in real need. People who are on benefits have obligations towards the system. They have some conditions they have to meet to keep getting those payments. Similarly, these conditions should be introduced for people who are on community-based sentences so that they have to comply with their conditions, and if they do not comply with their conditions, their benefit payments will be deducted. This is a very effective tool, and this is also about sending the message to people that people have responsibilities to the system, people have to respect the system, and they have a responsibility to society too. I am looking forward to working on this bill in the select committee process. I support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u00223e178e6ae1ec4dc481eae8723f4bf69b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e178e6ae1ec4dc481eae8723f4bf69b\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I would just like to begin in the spirit of goodwill engendered by my colleague Jan Logie. In that spirit, I have tried very hard to find something good to say about this bill. It has not been easy, but I have managed it. This bill does identify a problem. That is its one redeeming feature. We do have a problem with non-compliance with community work orders. However, this bill is so far from being a solution that it cannot even see it over the horizon. Sadly, it has identified a problem and come up with utterly the wrong response to that problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI would pose a question. There is some irony in the fact that we are talking about giving the Department of Corrections an authority to withhold payments from people and to withhold from them their means of support on the very day when the Department of Corrections has been revealed to be failing to comply with the reasonable requirements of the Office of the Ombudsmen. Perhaps senior staff management at the Department of Corrections should have their salaries withheld until such time as they comply with the Ombudsman\u2019s requirement for them to report about the well-being of prisoners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI think there is an interesting differentiation being made here, and that point has been made, not least of all by our friend Mr Ball. If the intention of this bill is to gain compliance from people who are not complying, why limit it to beneficiaries? The Government already has the power to withhold wages from people who fail to pay their tax, for example, or who fail to pay fines. If the intention is gaining compliance, why specify only beneficiaries? Is it about beating people when they are down? Is it about punishment and stigmatising those people? Why not? If the logic of this bill is to force compliance, why do you not go after wage earners as well? Explain to me the difference and the logic between those things if it is about compliance and not punishment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIf you actually want to know how to improve compliance with community sentences, take a leaf and look at our own experience. In Nelson in April this year the reporting point for people on community sentences was moved from Nelson to Richmond. They immediately got an increase in non-compliance, because for some people that was a 20 kilometre journey. It was a 20 kilometre journey for people who do not have drivers\u2019 licences and live where there is very little public transport\u2014and the Department of Corrections ceased providing transport in a van for these people. That would be a really simple way to resolve that specific problem: provide a van, pick these people up and get them to the point where they can then comply with their service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Department of Corrections in Canterbury, in November last year, identified a serious problem with non-compliance. The compliance levels got so low that its solution was to fire some of the supervisors, because they did not need that many. What a perverse response that was. How about getting more supervisors\u2014people who can monitor, inveigle, inspire, encourage, and harass people to turn up on the day\u2014to be on their case and make sure that they actually come along and fulfil their sentence requirements? Would that not be an actual real solution, rather than this phony attempt at a solution, this punitive stigmatising solution provided in this legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIn Tauranga in 2013 this problem was in evidence. They discovered that a lot of the non-compliance was because people were choosing to go and do a day\u2019s seasonal work rather than go and do their community work obligation. The rather enlightened response of the probation service in Tauranga was to accept that as a legitimate reason and endeavour to get the community service so that there was no conflict with the ability of these people to go out and earn money, particularly in fruit harvesting and these sorts of things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe do have a problem in New Zealand. The number of people who comply 100 percent with community work sentences is something as low as 36 percent. Many more do ultimately comply, but it is a low compliance rate. We do need to address the problem. This is absolutely not a solution. There are some sensible, well-founded solutions that mostly revolve around investing in people, treating them well, and treating them sensibly. This bill is not a solution. We will not support it. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002262d1e261f0e24363aeeba97d83f55ca9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262d1e261f0e24363aeeba97d83f55ca9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Mark Mitchell\u20145 minutes in reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022e87a3c16a8ac45a596b5cd25c5b79acb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e87a3c16a8ac45a596b5cd25c5b79acb\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E I have made a point of speaking, because I do want to be able to make some serious responses to the issues that were raised by the members across the House. This is going to be somewhat of a challenge, to be honest with you. Carmel Sepuloni: her contribution was that she is too busy to really look at it. She did manage to make some comment around keeping them out of court. Actually, this bill, if you look at it, is about keeping offenders out of court. It is avoiding the stigmatisation that puts them back into court. Then we came to Jan Logie\u2014that was a really interesting contribution. She is too busy as well to look at this, and I found out that she does not like me any more\u2014somehow I am going to have to try to deal with that; I am not sure how. She felt that it was a deep attack on beneficiaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThis bill is really simple. People who are actually on a benefit, I believe, have got a contract with the taxpayers of New Zealand, who are paying them. If beneficiaries are given community service as part of a sentence, often this is actually a real opportunity for them to get into their communities and do something positive. If they choose not to be compliant, then I think that we should take steps to make sure we encourage them to be compliant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI will come to Mr Ball\u2019s comments in a minute because he raised a very interesting point. He raised a question with me of what happens to people who fail to comply with a community sentence who do not collect a Government benefit. The answer is very simple: at the moment, if they are not a beneficiary, if the taxpayer is not funding them and they are getting their revenue from another source\u2014whether it be the private sector or whether you are self-employed\u2014then, basically, if they are non-compliant, they will be warned, and then they will be taken back into court, and they will be dealt with in court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EWhat this bill is actually doing, Mr Ball, is it is actually giving offenders who have been convicted an opportunity to come and engage in their community sentence, and it relates directly to people who are being funded and paid by the taxpayer. I come back to that social contract that they have and that responsibility that they have. This country is built on some pretty important values: personal responsibility and individual freedoms, Mr Ball. So I am very surprised that you are standing up and saying that you are tough on crime, and yet you want to let off offenders, whom the taxpayer is actually paying and funding. You do not want them to be held to account and to actually come along and engage in their community sentence. That is a very interesting position that you are taking, and I will be very interested to hear you get up in the House and try to defend that position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo let us move on from Mr Ball, and let us go to Kelvin. Kelvin\u2019s contribution: I was really looking forward to this, and he did not let me down, right? He spoke about the Parliamentary Rugby Team, which is very important, Kel, I admit that. Then he talked about tying prisoners to beds. I can assure you that there is nothing in this legislation that relates to tying prisoners to beds\u2014thank goodness. Then, to give him his dues, eventually he admitted that he wanted to talk about things that actually were totally unrelated to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EBut Mr Clendon surprised me, and it was a pleasant surprise. He got up and it sounded like he was going to support the bill. He understood what it is about. It is about non-compliance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d45d949adcc431cb0a4c7007c1b4c97\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Did he trick you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260a6ec3f461e4f27b2eb57abbde0553d\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: He did. We thought he was going to cross the floor there for a minute\u2014that is right. He did highlight that it is about non-compliance, and he is absolutely right. This bill is about non-compliance. It is about the non-compliant behaviour of offenders who have been convicted of a crime who are receiving a Government benefit funded by the taxpayer. The expectation is this: that they front up and do their community service. They get into the community and they take the opportunity that they have been given to do something positive. If they do not do that, then we will send a warning letter to them\u2014not once but twice\u2014to say that if they break the contract, then we will start to reduce their benefits. I think that is fair. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226f3afae9cb394dca855f35c2c8f1df73\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Security (Stopping Benefit Payments for Offenders who Repeatedly Fail to Comply with Community Sentences) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 12; M\u0101ori Party 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000626\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Social Services Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002238bd268f4c16448dadf1b96b3ef17224\u0022\u003ECustoms and Excise (Prohibition of Imports Made by Slave Labour) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0a0dda6660d4f30b6276a39ff1bdfd2\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5977d8621d547c79fce52038c79cc2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5977d8621d547c79fce52038c79cc2f\u0022\u003EPEENI HENARE (Labour\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. I move, That the Customs and Excise (Prohibition of Imports Made by Slave Labour) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI te tuatahi, ka tautoko ahau i te tangi m\u014Dteatea ki a T\u016B\u012B Hauiti Parapara, t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 kaimahi o Te Whare nei, kua hinga i ng\u0101 rangi kua pahure ake nei; e kara, haere, haere, haere. Whakahokia mai ng\u0101 r\u0101rangi k\u014Drero ki a t\u0101tou o Te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E[Firstly, I endorse the expressions of grief accorded to T\u016B\u012B Hauiti Parapara, one of the workers of this House who passed away in days just past; farewell dear friend, depart, return. I bring the focus of the contributions back to those of us of the House\u2014greetings to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI am proud to bring this bill to the House this evening, as it represents a genuine opportunity to not just make a positive change here in Aotearoa New Zealand but to make a positive change globally. This bill has the potential to reposition Aotearoa New Zealand at the forefront of progressive social change again. Our history is filled with the great examples of brave, progressive social policy. This year we commemorate 123 years since the women\u2019s suffrage petition was received by this House. More recently, in 2013 the marriage equality bill was received and passed by this House. Although this bill might not be a world first, it will go some way to restoring our reputation as a responsible and caring global citizen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to prohibit the importation of goods produced by slavery into Aotearoa New Zealand, preventing slave owners profiting from their crime and encouraging the ethical production of goods throughout the world. Both the United States and Belgium have passed similar legislation, and it is now time for us to follow suit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThis bill is no stranger to this House. In 2009 the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee considered the petition of Geoff White on behalf of Trade Aid and 17,000 others requesting that this House legislate against the importation of products made by slave labour. However, the Government did not care enough to do the right thing. Later that year the bill came to the House thanks to the Hon Maryan Street, but, sadly, the Government once again was not brave enough to do the right thing and prohibit the importation of goods produced by slavery into Aotearoa New Zealand. Late last year, through what some might call luck and others call destiny, the bill was drawn from the members\u2019 ballot once again, giving the Government yet another chance to do the right thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThis bill presents the New Zealand Parliament with an opportunity to explore in good faith how free trade and human rights might be accommodated in a principled and thoughtful way. There is no doubt that this bill represents a position of ideology, but I do not make any apologies for that. Nor do I apologise for bringing this bill back into the members\u2019 ballot and into this House, for we on this side of the House\u2014the Labour Party\u2014believe wholeheartedly that this is the right thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThis is a position that Aotearoa New Zealand should be taking from here on out. Our country regularly claims the moral high ground. We take democracy from Western civilisation, yet we are not prepared to be brave enough to take a stand. I ask the House to allow democracy to take its role with this particular bill. I ask this House to accept this bill, vote for it, and allow it to go through the democratic process, which allows for robust debate and allows for submissions to be heard on such an important issue. In a time when trade is important to our country, are we prepared to encourage trade from a position that accepts that slave labour is OK in the modern world? Are we, as Aotearoa New Zealand, prepared to do that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESlavery was abolished in Britain in the 18th century, and the ban on slavery is a foundation stone of modern international human rights law. Despite this, slavery continues in West Africa, Asia, and South America. In fact, some estimate that 21 million to 36 million people are enslaved worldwide, generating approximately $150 billion each year in illicit profits for traffickers. Of this, sadly, about 22 percent are children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI bring this bill before the House in the hope that our country, with a proud history of trade and with an eye to the future prosperity of not just our country but globally, will take a stand as a responsible global citizen in the world. I bring this bill in the hope that it will progress through the democratic stages that bills in this country pass through, to allow for robust debate, for submissions to be heard, and, hopefully, for this particular bill to be enacted into law. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022defcd39c51854d7baf242ee3557cb7dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022defcd39c51854d7baf242ee3557cb7dc\u0022\u003EMARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on this, the Customs and Excise (Prohibition of Imports Made by Slave Labour) Amendment Bill, and I want to acknowledge the member who brought the bill to the House, Mr Peeni Henare, whom I have a lot of respect for. I see that the select committee that I chair, the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, has been nominated. If the bill does get to the select committee, although we have a big work programme, I can assure you that we will make time to examine this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill is to prohibit the importation of goods made in whole or in part by slave labour. I guess our key message would be that it is impossible to physically identify goods made by slave labour, so the effectiveness of this legislation is questionable. The bill, therefore, makes a mere cosmetic change that, if enacted, would undermine the development of a more effective regime of due diligence, which is undertaken by industry and encouraged by consumers, who these days are very informed in terms of the goods and services that they use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s anti - slave labour laws are already in broad consensus with international standards and norms. The main provisions of the bill amend the Customs and Excise Act 1996. Clause 5 amends section 2(1) by inserting the words: \u201Cslave labour means labour by persons over whom any or all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are exercised\u201D. Clause 6 amends the Act by inserting in schedule 1, after the second item: \u201CGoods manufactured or produced wholly or in part by slave labour.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI guess the main debating point that I would make is that it is clear this issue is something we all struggle with\u2014not just here in New Zealand but around the world. There is no doubt about the abhorrence of slavery. The problems are many and varied. The traditions of servitude and forced labour in many societies prove to be extraordinarily hard to eradicate. However, we just do not see that this bill is the solution, in and of itself, to a number of these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe problems with this bill start with the definition. It is simple if we have a very narrow definition that would be associated with what I call a historical image of, say, slave ships. We can all have a mental image of the abhorrence of the slave trade and slave ships. But the moment we widen that definition, as the member\u2019s bill does, we have some real problems with trying to target what is legitimate and what is realisable from what is illegitimate. It is deeply in contention by many, many developing countries, and it would lead to massive disputation were we to proceed down that track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe second fundamental problem behind the definitional issues is that the very success of the spread of economic development and the growth of the global supply chain associated with its compounds are difficult. Many different products from so many different countries are incorporated in a final product, meaning that we have got a very complicated and complex supply chain around the world, with many different countries providing services and products that come together to make one product.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI want to use an example of what I just referred to, and that is the production of sugar. With that high-risk product, which would emerge in numerous foodstuffs, all imported into New Zealand, how would we ever be able to differentiate between products made from this wide definition of slavery and products made simply by poor people? We know and we understand that all around the world, unfortunately, there are labour markets where people are paid a far lower rate than, for example, our minimum wage here in New Zealand. It is simply impossible for customs officers to physically identify goods made by slave labour, so the effectiveness of this legislation is questionable at best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EManufacturing in the world today is much more complex than it has ever been before. A single product is often made by various parts from various countries with different labour standards. It is nearly impossible to identify which aspects of a product might or might not have been made under which labour standards, or in which part of the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe bill makes a mere cosmetic change that, if enacted, would undermine the development of a more effective regime of due diligence, which is undertaken by industry and encouraged by consumers who are informed. If we were to pass the bill into New Zealand law, it is doubtful whether we would be able to police it or make it effective. Whether it would have any effect at all, it is admirable that we pay attention and give voice to this issue, but I think we need to look for real action that will have a real effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe bill is unlikely to add to New Zealand\u2019s anti - slave labour laws, which are already broadly consistent with international standards today. It must be taken in the context of a 21st century world. There is no doubt that any MP in this House would support an action that would have a meaningful effect upon slavery\u2014to prohibit it, to stop it, and to drive it out of countries elsewhere. But this bill will not do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EManufacturing in the world today is much more complex than it was back in 1930 when the United States originally banned slavery. That legislation was passed in 1930. If we were in the climate of the trade, trade law, and trade rules of the world that were in place in 1930, then this bill might have some effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2016081056b1d906540942389bce77df082bcd43000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"