"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220afe6d40d76842538c56027bc02bd0d8\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 1 FEBRUARY 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002221d3f20938c04629b656bd536fa2a8d3\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 1 FEBRUARY 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb41c05bccc944ad89ee0fd43e517755\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227771e5cc263e44d7b8ab43abc74312f8\u0022\u003EVanuatu\u2014Foreign Affairs, International Cooperation and External Trade, Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc1631c48f4040539cc9a6aa91026e99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc1631c48f4040539cc9a6aa91026e99\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure members would wish to welcome the Hon Ralph Regenvanu, Minister of Foreign Affairs, International Cooperation and External Trade from the Parliament of Vanuatu, who is present in the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002292e98237f5554d61a648bcb8fe8040be\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b240ac3fe64e455cbb6e4d52fadbfebc\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00223d1e43179bf04669a4c7ba4d6973d2d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d1e43179bf04669a4c7ba4d6973d2d3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Today the House adjourns until Tuesday, 13 February, when the Child Poverty Reduction Bill will have its first reading. Other bills to be considered in that week will include the Dairy Industry Restructuring Amendment Bill (No 2) and the Customs and Excise Bill. Additional bills will be introduced and will receive their first readings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00224b018355508a4fa49df71dc4077ba110\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b018355508a4fa49df71dc4077ba110\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I just inquire from the Leader of the House, at what point is it likely we\u2019ll run out of Government work and we\u2019ll be able to get on with more members\u2019 bills?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002283a7984e7fa54650ab2a20a87ebf3498\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283a7984e7fa54650ab2a20a87ebf3498\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Just before Christmas, the member who just spoke was criticising the Government for not following proper Cabinet and Cabinet committee processes. I can assure him that there are a number of bills completing the Cabinet and Cabinet committee process, as he will see over the coming weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b3a4d4c00324a57a7aee1629c3a8664\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221018d590824a48a7967ea311a3e20f26\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002274792f5708a345dc8574ac25171cc22e\u0022\u003EFiscal Strategy\u2014Living Standards Framework\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002295aa92ae79df44a1adddb74bb351437b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295aa92ae79df44a1adddb74bb351437b\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What role will the Living Standards Framework play in the Government\u2019s economic strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022958d2f46ab15429699f49f5885156f23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022958d2f46ab15429699f49f5885156f23\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E This Government is committed to pursuing productive, sustainable, and inclusive economic growth that improves the well-being and living standards of all New Zealanders. As part of the confidence and supply agreement with the Green Party, we are committed to the creation of sustainable development indicators. The Living Standards Framework will help put the well-being of people and the environment at the centre of our policies, and lead to policies that will allow for an economy where we work smarter, make better use of our resources, and where the benefits of growth are spread across all New Zealanders and, indeed, all regions of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216395de7f1954f4fa22719f895160891\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: What difference will this make to how we measure success?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d3c48afe72c40c88c660d17b42d3f01\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government will measure its success by assessing whether all New Zealanders\u2019 living standards rise together and that they are all sharing in the dividends of growth. As the Prime Minister said last night, the Living Standards Framework will inform the prioritisation of Budget proposals, as well as measure the success of the Government\u2019s programmes. An example of this are the child poverty indicators contained in the Child Poverty Reduction Bill, introduced to Parliament this week, which future Ministers of Finance will report on as part of their obligations under the Public Finance Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022436ca4fb6b7b48f1a9ec2982291a2fe3\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: What are the next steps in further developing this approach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c01c30cc6b5447439045abbd5d70a9ca\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re building towards the Living Standards Framework being a core part of both the preparation and the delivery of Budget 2019. This will be New Zealand\u2019s first true well-being Budget. As part of this, Statistics New Zealand, under Minister James Shaw\u2019s leadership, is working with Treasury to develop the new measurement and success indicators. Further, today I\u2019m pleased to announce that, as part of these efforts, we\u2019ve given the go ahead to Treasury to co-organise an international conference on well-being in September with Victoria University of Wellington and the International Journal of Wellbeing. This conference will draw to New Zealand the leading organisation and thinkers who are working on this topic to share their research. This will put New Zealand at the forefront of making sure that Budgets are truly about well-being and living standards\u2014something the Opposition clearly opposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cfc277bd211249b2abf21e0d7ec4f4a3\u0022\u003EChild Poverty Reduction\u2014Government Measures to Address\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022765e8a9f92b441cd9a14a6cdc8d5c186\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022765e8a9f92b441cd9a14a6cdc8d5c186\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9f9044bab364fe28ef55505af4b3ab7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9f9044bab364fe28ef55505af4b3ab7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e777defbbe948c29f38dab7059c84db\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Why is her Government being less ambitious than the previous National Government with her target to reduce material hardship, particularly given her statement on Tuesday that material hardship has been one of the most consistent drivers of poor outcomes for children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022550c0e4746d8428ab43be7950efb61f5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: In response, the Government has not reduced its targets. It\u2019s increased its ambition massively under the change of Government, and how can you possibly talk of having a target when, on 22 January this year, the New Zealand Herald was carrying a report that goes to the core of poverty, where the richest 1 percent of Kiwis got 28 percent of all wealth created last year, while the poorest 30 percent of the population\u2014the very people we\u2019re speaking about and addressing in our policies\u2014got just 1 percent of that wealth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264f3a69900bf4e33b1149c3e7070d0f2\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that her Government\u2019s targeted total reduction in the number of children in material hardship over the next 10 years is 70,000, like announced yesterday, and that over the last five years of the National Government, the number of children in material hardship fell by 85,000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022167144c2c3bf49ada0b5896f5efb760b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member can choose which of the questions he answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245023ff94ce14765a6e025da1f6264eb\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, let\u2019s address the second question, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fc781cf43d44cf7bfd3dd43505ee0b3\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CLet\u2019s\u201D\u2014the royal \u201Cwe\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b924952224e148e590e325816b0cad02\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dbf6d1235314875bcc87ce3800b0419\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Your Majesty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022375f918bfda842c5bec94571a5961be1\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019re talking about the state of the nation; I\u2019m talking about the state of her leadership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b13a8b7552c46dd952c14dc64e842d8\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019d know all about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224012c1669ef44f93aa1849181e52c754\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: All right? And you\u2019d know all about that. First of all, the previous Government\u2019s so-called measurements have been also called into question by improper Treasury measurements, and we\u2019re waiting round to find out what they really meant by that as they relate to our improper advice from them as well, which they\u2019re currently working on. When we know that, we\u2019ll be able to speak with exactitude about what our targets and numbers will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a24265bef41c4683bf269acbacfd9add\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: The numbers of 70,000 that the Government has announced that they want to reduce material hardship over the next 10 years, by 70,000; National\u2019s record over the last five years\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022997dea34cae84dfdb314a5d5d77c6412\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We\u2019ll go right back to the beginning. Two of my very good predecessors indicated that questions start with a question word. So that would be a good way to start. The member hasn\u2019t got close yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceb930ff69a542e6aee9169052075897\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, sir. I\u2019m just trying to clarify, because the Minister is mistaken on a question, so I\u2019m just trying to get a clarification here. So in light of the Minister\u2019s answer, can he please explain how the reduction made over the last five years of the National Government of the number of children in material hardship, falling by 85,000, was not a prediction by Treasury, but, actually, it was in the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s household income survey, which has been used? So we\u2019ve seen a reduction of 85,000\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c885b30bd55e4de68efb3498f2821209\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! That\u2019s enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d63084fa54e403bbd3b085e09bfa6b9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, I do not believe for a moment what that member is saying\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242eb7927cf6f4607ba72f944be8b564d\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228df740f89f134bfb87d67385967cbf4c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well I don\u2019t, because there\u2019s great doubt as to the veracity of what she\u2019s saying already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c162f8cd6e2424d8b7a08a0d8306fee\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Order! The member will resume his seat. I was listening, and I did hear the member say that he doubted the member\u2019s veracity, and that is something that has been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c588861d7d12461682f4a18de48fa863\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, what she was saying\u2014not her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5eb39463d9a48c79148bb5858babe35\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think if he doubted the member\u2019s veracity in the House, it might even be worse. So I will ask the Deputy Prime Minister to withdraw that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed09ac11c7cd44e8b52bb231c9af3fa5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise, and say this: I think there is an enormous\u2014not a grain of salt but a bag of salt that\u2019s got to be laid around the comments by that member. More particularly, I do not think this is the right place to litigate the National Party leadership challenges at this point in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022006effb2521a408c83ead4693dbf6c04\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Keep deflecting, old man. I raise a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213d7b86ce7604b988e0b02a20e779ed3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] No, I\u2019m going to deal with it first. What I would like is silence in the House while I indicate that that was very unacceptable. The member knows it, and, as a result of it, four questions will be deducted from the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246604d02e817482184cc9744de06a8cf\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to actually table the household income survey, which, yes, is publicly available, but I feel that since, actually, my character is being called into question in this House for my lack of honesty\u2014and that is actually why I made that comment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d24ca822a06b4529bc252c5bf6e3f234\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume her seat. I took action to require the withdrawal of the reflection on the member\u2019s character. I dealt with it. The member should have left it at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb081a2bbbc4fd6b63fd50e79cf901a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The issue is that directly after the Deputy Prime Minister withdrew the remark, he launched into a political attack on the member around party politics, and that\u2019s what led to this. So I can understand that what then followed wasn\u2019t acceptable, but four supplementary questions, it seems to me, given the behaviour of the Deputy Prime Minister, is a very harsh call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cc48a1625b74f8bba8e36d807af83c6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it might well be, but it\u2019s been made. Further supplementary\u2014Paula Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f58eacb1d32b4985a22868e72af33678\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, I sought leave, Mr Speaker, to table the household income survey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f443cf4fbab40f6b8fc7296f591b2ac\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and I\u2019m declining to put that leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba9125efd9a74960bd80ffaa20cf37e3\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Is she committed to reducing the number of children in low-income households by 100,000 in three years, like the National Government committed to, or 100,000 over 10 years, like she announced last night?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ab007be1b3b4ab6b2d4e1edce261835\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, this Government came to power very aware of the problem, and it didn\u2019t take nine years to get around to thinking about it. More particularly, we are setting out to put together a political consensus to reduce poverty in this country as fast as we possibly can. We know it\u2019s not going to be easy. Long-term targets are good, but the difference is that, in the terms of family incomes\u2014and poor incomes, in particular\u2014and the quality of homes in which they\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224373951280174f9ea4aacc51e627f03c\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d2b4fbb19844bdd94e31e5ef020ec2d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I am answering the question. I know that the facts are remote from that member. That\u2019s why she\u2019s at the backbench now. My point is we are addressing the incomes and the accommodation levels, and when we put those together you will see sound Treasury measurements that show we\u2019re making great progress. As for Anne Tolley, if I were her I would just keep quiet, because she\u2019s on her way out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022041b2f90f2c74372a3a5ad90a9c4d7b6\u0022\u003EJo Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Will her Government commit to continuing to spend $130 million on Wh\u0101nau Ora to help reduce child poverty, particularly in M\u0101ori and Pasifika wh\u0101nau?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022966e35150dff4734adaf541b1f7a10a7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Could I just say we will take the best policies\u2014if there are some sound policies from the previous administration\u2014with us. We\u2019re prepared to look with open minds as we always have, given where we stand when it comes to sound thinking and collegiality, and if there are sound policies in Wh\u0101nau Ora we\u2019ll take them forward. But, you know, you cannot possibly mean to be sincere\u2014how should I say it generically?\u2014on that issue when M\u0101ori housing ownership declined by 38 percent under their administration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c4e60faf8134b658e4110a8a9bcc9fe\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Is she planning to do another families incomes package over the next three years, which could lift another 50,000 children out of child poverty, as National plan to do, or has she spent all the money on fees-free tertiary education, which hasn\u2019t seen any increase in tertiary enrolments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb9fb57d39ac46bd85a5d58b0a8e1bed\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Could I just say that the Government\u2019s working on its current package, and we\u2019re not going to be forecasting the next package until we\u2019ve got this one well under way. That is a possibility, but not at this point in time. However, the turn-around in the economy is such that we could be quite confident of possibly doing what the member says, given that Mr Rutherford, in today\u2019s New Zealand Herald, says that our opponents are concerned that the economy is going so well that they need a turn-around to help themselves in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211d75329d6c44080896365e597762e02\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do just want to confirm\u2014I may have missed it\u2014that those answers were on behalf of the Prime Minister by the Deputy Prime Minister, or is it the case that the Deputy Prime Minister has already assumed the role, in his head, of Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f37065965fa6409e81c0d417fe6af3a9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab7eac2994014db5aed3b7bed336c7ea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no. Well, I really don\u2019t think that I need the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202842e34dd6f43d0a6e9bc5ec1804d4e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, can I correct that, then. It\u2019s important for the public out there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdfe809262884598b67a86ea33d90ef5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think I can rule on it, and I just want to give a bit of a warning to the National Party shadow Leader of the House that we\u2019ve had one example of quite disorderly behaviour resulting in a loss of questions, and frivolous points of order could well be treated the same way. That was a frivolous point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284ad5f213d2d40ab90901167fcf80885\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Look, I appreciate the point the Speaker\u2019s making, but I genuinely do want to understand that the answers are on behalf of the Prime Minister, and I haven\u2019t heard that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022399ec45fa6f34e59b4f508988bd5c570\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will make it clear to the House: at any time the Deputy Prime Minister becomes the Acting Prime Minister, that will be made clear to the House. As the member is aware, that could happen for a substantial period of time later in the year but also when the Prime Minister is overseas on official business. I really think that the member is not very serious in the comments that he makes, and it\u2019s a bit dangerous. I think what he\u2019s going to see is that when he does that, he causes other problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290bbe1c46e864a599a869e6af5a3ce06\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I made it very clear in the answer to my primary question that I was speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister. You see, over here we try and make a Prime Minister successful, not try and depose them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022318d246304cd4a3a935baac6662a984c\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Is that not frivolous?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bada4e5c81d40b781a5e6a2cd071adc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think given the fact that we had two frivolous interjections from my left and one from the right, we\u2019ll just call it all square and we\u2019ll go on to question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ec48c72301c4c3991a4a4efaa1325b1\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. So I completely accept that my comments were out of order, and your ruling, sir, of course, as you expect in this House. But as I put something in front of my question and was punished, it seems that it\u2019s quite acceptable for extra bits to be put on unnecessarily that are inciting the politicising of the answers to the questions that we\u2019re getting in this House today, and that\u2019s acceptable, at some level, to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223384da7a918a480eb660641ffd65e475\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is absolutely aware\u2014and yes, yes, people are evening it up pretty quickly\u2014that the question she asked, even after the totally unacceptable piece at the beginning was dealt with, was still highly political. The rulings that a number of my predecessors have made are that when people ask those questions in a political way, they should expect a political answer. With straight questions, short questions, I will be more interested in protecting members. We now go on to the Hon Steven Joyce. Do you want to have a go?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b247cfc459441fa8225669681678dd2\u0022\u003EGovernment Financial Position\u2014Business Confidence and Job Ad Numbers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u002225aa03c5bb994a7da92a149ac399157c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225aa03c5bb994a7da92a149ac399157c\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by the accuracy of all his answers to oral questions to date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce85f337604943539f4925d4adb6a618\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce85f337604943539f4925d4adb6a618\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, incorporating any clarifications I have made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c76d76d3c84476a99b04edf3b517500\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: When the latest consumer confidence reports from ANZ-Roy Morgan and Westpac McDermott Miller both show consumer confidence going down in the final quarter of 2017, will he correct his answer from yesterday when he stated consumer confidence is up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a437adde6df4ae6ab8b9d6451337977\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I will check that and if necessary that is what I will do. What I do know is that the McDermott Miller survey does show that employees are feeling optimistic\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa3a4fa8302c43e69d0c892bc97dc19a\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: No, consumer confidence\u2014consumer confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205df3a969f00429aab3099247fb0401a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, but you quoted the survey, Mr Joyce, so I\u2019m just letting you know that in that survey employees are feeling optimistic about their future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce686ea9c17c4904bb8fc0ee27272489\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: When Statistics New Zealand reported economic growth for the 2014, 2015, and 2016 calendar years at 3.6 percent, 3.5 percent, and 4 percent respectively, will he now correct his answer from yesterday when he stated economic growth was going to lift to an average of 3 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9a8ff2f67704309ad3fc976d64c9688\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That was in relation to forecasts that were made by Treasury\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a57a79b3c1f146999eb6b000a242142b\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Lifting it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022479984aea32d4203bd5ecc0704a4395d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That was in relation to forecasts made by Treasury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252a0f53f94194ebab14fe6ff3abd2ccf\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: When the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research (NZIER) quarterly survey of business opinion shows businesses\u2019 outlook for their own activity at exactly the same level in September 2017 as it was in December 2016 but then declined in December 2017, will he now correct, for the second time, his answer yesterday when he stated, and I quote, \u201CI can confirm that business confidence in its own activity has increased in recent surveys. It has gone down over a period of time, beginning, as I said yesterday, a trend that started in December 2016,\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d14de5de3b1840daa165c2c5986e5190\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: There are two surveys that\u2019ve been the subject of debate in the House here. One of them is the ANZ survey. Businesses\u2019 outlook about their own prospects in the ANZ survey increased between November and December. The other answer I gave was in relation to the downward trend in the NZIER quarterly survey of business opinion own activity measure, where there has been a downward trend from December 2016.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7d7b8555d2641e8927b704042a0d20e\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his answer on 15 November last year that he relied on official reports, not bank economists\u2019 reports, to substantiate his comment, and I quote, \u201Cit will be possible for us to meet our goals within our Budget responsibility rules,\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a35955d9d5284fc38697ae02adfaade9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that was the advice from Treasury, and that is the advice that appeared in the Budget Policy Statement (BPS) and the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbe1a845b2cc4f07a3333f856bc909af\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his answers relating to the health of the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b59a0c2ea90548aaa0e87e4ae76845c6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do, in particular the answers relating to Standard \u0026amp; Poor\u2019s description of the New Zealand economy under this Government being wealthy and resilient. Further evidence of this can be seen in today\u2019s ANZ Job Ads report for January, which sees a 3.1 percent month on month, seasonally adjusted increase\u2014the highest monthly lift in three years. On this side of the House, we are very positive and optimistic about the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022592b4e904ba14eb4bce1f73c71f9a6e9\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Given that he stood, in his previous answer to me, by his answer on 15 November 2017, how does he explain the fact that the official reports from Treasury that he cited and provided in an Official Information Act request subsequent to that date were not actually written at the time he answered the question in the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbb7d1b9f042445187c97bfbb7b1ff36\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That advice was the advice that was coming through. It was formalised in the HYEFU and BPS.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb3c6c2c0b4e4ef2941db7adbd51af61\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider, in light of all those answers, that one simple way of boosting consumer and business confidence would be for the finance Minister to answer questions more accurately and reassure New Zealanders he knows what he\u2019s actually talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c310394a1f54f1fb0bbcccf48058925\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: All of us in Parliament, as we begin a new term, are learning our jobs. There will be errors and mistakes from time to time. The important thing is making sure that you\u2019re humble about it, that you understand the new role that you\u2019re undertaking, and you don\u2019t attempt to undermine your leader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d59dca1448246b1acd4d4af91dc1685\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement that there\u2019s no $11.6 billion hole in the Government\u2019s finances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280df3386288b478396402cecb7348a6d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I most definitely do stand by that statement. And, in fact, I understand that there is still now only one living human being who believes that that statement is correct, and he\u2019s on his way out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226a425ab6c5d4e918d8f9a280c5bba71\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b65af61703084164b0d776abcbe97309\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I do, I will indicate to the National Party for planning purposes that they\u2019ve got two of their supplementaries back as a result of an interjection from my right then. Thank you, Mr Mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a54e32e7bd84a3fb29dac428f498477\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister agree that the assertion of an $11.6 billion hole could only come from someone whose talent in economics, if he has any, is with the truth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229210998f0a0549ae8d0076b7121a932b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I believe a statement like that would primarily come from his\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225562fb2b9aaf41c996ebe23a05b3d7ee\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take offence to that particular statement from the member and ask that he withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229da408e716ad49a4a1dbd97b706e0fd6\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cd02d1667384d399ee0ed62179e96ab\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: I also seek leave to table my academic record, with seven successfully sat economic papers, and invite the member to do the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214e748fef944ab0b65d86368c38c19b\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b63b50416c748c5af9d93a6e97976b4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2014the member will resume his seat. That member\u2019s academic record has caused me problems in the past. And my understanding is that it has already been tabled\u2014I might even have done it myself. We will now leave it because it\u2019s already been tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c93432f8d6b94fc98450c6d078f58aa0\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House for there to be a further debate on Mr Joyce\u2019s academic record. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da3ddf6143d045ee87954c88f9287f69\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m not going to take the member seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f52915585bf04c73a7a36d1bb80fde73\u0022\u003ENative Freshwater Fish\u2014Preservation and Protection\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022d306d04d0b0c44228a4b0ff419db011e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d306d04d0b0c44228a4b0ff419db011e\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: What plans does she have to protect freshwater fisheries and their habitats?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u002203894fa704654495809d0188abd03c30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203894fa704654495809d0188abd03c30\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Under this Government, the Department of Conservation (DOC) will be able to do its job and implement its statutory responsibility to protect and preserve indigenous freshwater fish. The Green Party\u2019s confidence and supply agreement includes a commitment to significantly increase DOC\u2019s funding so that it can protect freshwater habitats and the threatened native fish species that rely on them. It\u2019s part of this Government\u2019s effort to tackle the biodiversity crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022023a4d2ed1404a6488be4714ed3d76c0\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What actions are needed to protect the 72 percent of our native fish that are at risk or threatened with extinction?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc1fa966eb184919a6422c10ec711210\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: DOC needs to be involved in much more local restoration work, especially in relation to fish spawning sites, ensuring culverts and river works don\u2019t obstruct fish passage and migration. It needs to protect and restore wetlands, and ensure river flows are adequate for fish to thrive. We\u2019ve inherited a regime from the previous Government where there is no explicit Government funding that focuses on protecting freshwater biodiversity. That needs to change, because our native fish are in crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202b9b8367c7b4753aaea73790cc8234e\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What role will the Department of Conservation take in Resource Management Act advocacy for freshwater fish protection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1b9f06f153e466e86202852ef484eb3\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve asked the Department of Conservation to ramp up its work to implement its statutory function to advocate for conservation, and in fresh water, that means getting more involved with council planning and resource consent processes, because councils need DOC\u2019s science and technical expertise on native fish if they are to make good decisions so that our native fish thrive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d551a5c236240339b9eb5f1cc2c81b0\u0022\u003EYouth Justice\u2014Pre-charge Warnings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u00225e15a7ee9c3145f8954f158ce63ed692\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e15a7ee9c3145f8954f158ce63ed692\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s Justice policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d770a462797b46ddacf397fc5c458ae7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d770a462797b46ddacf397fc5c458ae7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b3188c1978847ddb79c4c6f5468122b\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does he continue to stand by his Government\u2019s policy that detention only should be used for young people as a last resort?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022451b6202c20c4fa29e8926d719c7eccf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a5e4bfc415743f5a93369c54c85d2b9\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does he also stand by the Prime Minister\u2019s statement that every child who is caught by police should be arrested, charged, and convicted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264db8d2cde114b5ba4a175e6b3cd95c8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is a misrepresentation of what was said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d701c47ff06a49b89de265eccbea88be\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Well, how does he reconcile the Prime Minister\u2019s statement, which would see the end of pre-charge warnings for young first-time offenders, with his answers to the previous questions and his stated desire to reduce the prison population by 30 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220858a0da2097495b85272cf8f083f16e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The answers were given in the context of questions about why the Government was reviewing the Better Public Services (BPS) targets for reoffending and reducing crime, and, of course, we\u2019re reviewing those Public Service targets and the Government\u2019s failure to meet them. For example, National\u2019s target was to reduce violent crime by 20 percent between 2012 and 2018. Instead, it went up by 3 percent\u2014a complete failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a30d5957b5bf44bc9f6063272fb079c5\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I did listen very carefully to that question, and I can\u2019t see how the wider context that the question might\u2019ve touched on answers, in any way, the question I have put, which puts a very direct statement made by the Prime Minister yesterday and asks the Minister how it\u2019s reconciled. He went off on a completely different tangent about BPS targets that I didn\u2019t go anywhere near.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbc7612ccb084bab88331e3a1ce78011\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and one of the problems with how it can be reconciled is that people can have very wide opinions about reconciliation. I think, probably, in the first few words of the answer, the Minister did address the question, although I do accept that it didn\u2019t help us much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205468028aeac4356af0596da2bb2753c\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Prime Minister wrong, then, to describe in the House yesterday that the policy of this Government is that every young person apprehended by police should be arrested, charged, and convicted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220443ef9951d84201b53c27f306bdcb2f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That, again, is a misrepresentation of the Deputy Prime Minister\u2019s comments on behalf of the Prime Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6db294148b34b269b0b20f34bb72198\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It wasn\u2019t the Deputy Prime Minister\u2019s comments. The Deputy Prime Minister was answering on behalf of the Prime Minister. That makes them the Prime Minister\u2019s comments under Speaker\u2019s ruling 175/7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227a8368286a745b7855164079d0fc098\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And that\u2019s exactly what the Minister acting for the Minister of Justice just said. He said, \u201CThe Deputy Prime Minister \u2026 on behalf of the Prime Minister.\u201D\u2014that\u2019s exactly what he said. The member should listen for a little bit longer before she stands up. Any further supplementaries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270e8daf3d1b44e01817b94e8e0ddaffc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I hadn\u2019t finished my answer before the point of order was taken. The reason these misrepresentations are important is that the effect of failing to meet these targets that the prior Government set for themselves means that they left a Budget hole of a billion dollars in the corrections portfolio because they predicted low prison numbers growth, when, in actual fact, they have grown hugely and the cost of those additional prison beds has not been funded by the previous Government\u2019s Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2b834f9c25c4a2587c7e1b1a44071e5\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Listening to the answer from the Minister, I\u2019m just wondering whether the ruling that you made late last year about critiquing the previous Government in an answer to a question\u2014does that still stand or not? Because at that time you were very clear that we couldn\u2019t refer back to the previous Government. The Minister was responsible from the time only that they\u2019d taken up the warrant and could comment only from the time they\u2019d taken up the warrant. We had quite a discussion about it, you\u2019ll recall, and I\u2019m just wondering whether that\u2019s now changed. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5bb10b79d96437fbd9624502549e800\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m happy to deal with it and say that this whole series of questions, as it started yesterday from the Leader of the Opposition, went to the question of the previous Government\u2019s targets and whether they should be kept to. It was the responses to that that were the basis of the member\u2019s questions. I think it is fair to take it in the whole context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221166b5fab1da4489ac392d363f05583f\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker\u2014a fresh point of order, then, if I could. I\u2019ve looked at the primary of this particular question, and it makes no reference to the previous Government\u2019s Better Public Services statements, and it actually talks about the Government\u2019s justice policies in relation to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213c43d6616de479ea309a1e8058196e4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And if that was the case, especially when the member asking supplementaries quoted yesterday\u2019s statement by the Deputy Prime Minister acting for the Prime Minister, then it must take it back to yesterday\u2019s question. What is relevant is not only what\u2019s in the primary, but it can be widened out by the supplementary, and the Hon Amy Adams certainly did. [Interruption] No. The point of order has been dealt with. If there\u2019s a fresh point of order, Amy Adams, you may have one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d990eea248a433c804fed62c111d293\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t mean to trifle with you but I am struggling to understand, because I want to get this right. I understand entirely your ruling that the supplementary question can widen the scope of the primary, and yet I was very careful in my supplementary to only refer to a very specific comment where the view was expressed by the Prime Minister that young people should be treated in a very specific way. It wasn\u2019t in relation to BPS targets; it wasn\u2019t even about targets. So I just want you to clarify that ruling, and that while the supplementary extended it when it only talked about a very specific comment that was made, how that brought into play everything else that had been discussed as part of a different question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbcad25c97844c59ac038e3759852004\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sure. And, very briefly, it was the context in which the comments that the member quoted was made. The comments were made in relation to BPS targets, and that was the point that members were making, and debates around that. I think it\u2019s not unreasonable when someone quotes specific wording from a ministerial answer that the context of that answer be allowed to be referred to by the person who has to respond to the quote that the member used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b0529d165904bad970f57109e0c5588\u0022\u003EBusinesses, Retail\u2014Crime Deterrent Subsidy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00221922a749898743759d122546551307ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221922a749898743759d122546551307ef\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What is he doing to support crime prevention for high-risk retail businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u002202f948faae88461490ecdf9d8c2cd338\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202f948faae88461490ecdf9d8c2cd338\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This Government has removed some of the barriers in accessing the $1.8 million fund for crime prevention measures by increasing the subsidy for at-risk retail businesses. Police were allocated $1.8 million by the previous Government to put towards high-tech crime deterrence, such as fog cannons, for identified at-risk premises. However, only one business accepted the co-funded option. Two businesses were fully funded as part of the pilot programme. Due to almost zero uptake, it was clear that this fund was not being utilised in the way in which it was intended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a68c7cbe90244415a38c7bd0a410d1f2\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: How many more businesses have taken up this subsidy since the Minister has reviewed the subsidy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c67ae5c688b46ed830984bd76622381\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Since the available subsidy was increased under this Government in November last year, we now have 17 more businesses who have accessed this fund and a further eight are awaiting fit-out. This is a clear improvement on the one business under the previous Government. One of the main reasons for the change is that myself, the Minister of Justice, and a number of Labour South and West Auckland MPs met with and listened to a delegation of dairy owners, got a feel for the issues and, as a result of the feedback, I adjusted the scheme accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c148e654c8e344c987c8aee67b7ecb1b\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: What are the Government\u2019s longer-term plans to reduce crime and improve public safety?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a100ea6614a64deba0b3d76f5ee49f74\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: As clearly signalled, this Government is striving towards an extra 1,800 police into our community and to fight organised crime. We\u2019re going to ensure that the police have the manpower and womanpower and the resources to ensure New Zealanders feel safe in their houses in their communities. By targeting at-risk youth and providing them with options and opportunities away from crime, we remove the need to catch them at a later stage. We believe that investing in our youth\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d93febd22c843b1b22cda04379869e2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That\u2019s more than enough for something that is, sort of, marginally relevant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022910a2001d55146cfbcf4ed5f93e86783\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does he agree with the policy announced yesterday by the Prime Minister in question time to cease the policy of providing pre-charge warnings to young first-time youth offenders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c191cd11c96544eea99a803a3ceb16b6\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t see how that question has any relevance to preventing crime in high-risk retail businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b7a5ce0669e4a3c89c9d325503876b1\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022138dd3c21de145b6a03e80898013b14e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have ruled the question in by not ruling it out. The member will answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3d1af8eb35b4e1a9a77e51084bde85f\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: As far as I\u2019m concerned, the Prime Minister announced no such policy at all yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e25ff1dd89846f385921578253d7633\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the statement of the Prime Minister in the House yesterday, then, that \u201CThis Government does not believe in fictitious policies such as telling the police that when they catch someone offending, warn them and don\u2019t charge them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f44bd6a8fa542febe11d19f2d0f0698\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: What I do believe is that the police work incredibly hard with our communities to ensure that youth are given opportunities away from crime, because what we do know is that spending $100,000 a year to keep someone in prison is not a good investment in our youth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b859ccda281e4a29aed2218d410f5ad8\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that $1.8 million is 0.1 percent of the $1.8 billion in tobacco excise tax, the collection of which is what endangers small-business people in the first place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc80deb45c06419fb86ac75025458214\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I cannot confirm that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b6c1b297e7d44699b9b8555890abeda\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Funding and National Bowel Screening Programme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u0022d546d29024a64d2ba5aa237b96b9aeb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d546d29024a64d2ba5aa237b96b9aeb2\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (National\u2014Northcote)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What are his priorities in the Health portfolio?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022162258ffeffe48a5ad1ddb1c9c2dd665\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022162258ffeffe48a5ad1ddb1c9c2dd665\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Better healthcare for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278a51dbf5211436ab1f57d604a027e8b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the further roll-out of the National Bowel Screening Programme being delayed by a year, meaning that thousands of New Zealanders will not have their potentially treatable bowel cancers detected and people may die as a result?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8be9e55b5254df085f3ad6b5c49c2a2\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Delays are another example of the previous Minister\u2019s refusal to listen to officials and the sector about the bowel screening programme. Had he been listening, he would have heard that there was a lack of capacity in some district health boards (DHBs) for colonoscopies. Had he been listening, he would have heard that the IT system critical to success was missing key milestones. Had he been listening, he would have heard that workforce planning wasn\u2019t in place. This is a Government that listens and delivers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe4194a6c32d4137a023fd17414620c0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: How does that explanation square with the Taranaki Daily News of 18 January reporting him as saying that the National Bowel Screening Programme would be \u201Cdelayed for a year due to insufficient funds to run the programme.\u201D, and why is he telling different stories to different people in different places?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220331fba3076543fba8712e3727462675\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the premise of the member\u2019s question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a0b3ef2e01a469d8e92169ea93ad2d2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0a79d6e96ff4d1a9cfd8ec944fb5a79\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think the member will have a better go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1de177707694745a3ad4d5283eed240\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220943faf09c1d409f9f58fc6cf4a59f65\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s not going to dispute my ruling, is he? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df5a9fde80f04a4397072241dde43e8a\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to go back to the Speakers\u2019 rulings and Standing Orders about there being two parts to a question, in which a member can answer either part. One of the parts of Mr Coleman\u2019s question asked whether he was telling different stories to different people, and the Minister rejected that part of that question. There were two parts to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211719ab3bae345b9a299a14f46b6fb14\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I could well have made a wrong ruling, and I almost certainly did. But the member will still answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f13b84662e94bc9880cdf60ed2feaf5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the member\u2019s statement in the second part of his question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022629d7345488242dd970449e80e112dba\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: What health priorities is the Minister aware of that have not been adequately funded, or funded at all? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234ce4b894784419eb387c30843a5109c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, where do I begin. Primary healthcare has been woefully underfunded for a very long time, as have DHBs, which now have a combined projected deficit of $178 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd5b2ebc19354732aaf83271a8bd1af8\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c16cc6ed26b647608c4eb6ef5322c44d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: In mental health, the previous\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022243168014ad24f05a3115297a5de399b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat. Point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b23aa6ba6d445fd9f9f718c0c650d07\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have it before me, but Speakers\u2019 rulings are very clear that a Minister cannot attack the Opposition through a question from his own side like this by referring back\u2014very clear. I can find it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b253760473b34a33ab5a9a6d8ce61353\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I think it\u2019s fair to say that the Minister is running through issues that he is currently dealing with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7f6e00d93a940ffb55df9dadd799620\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Primary healthcare has been woefully underfunded, as have DHBs, which now have a combined projected deficit of $178 million. In mental health, funding has failed to meet need over the past decade. Less than 5 percent of the $14 billion in anticipated capital expenditure projects over the next decade have been appropriated for. This Government is committed to ensuring New Zealanders have affordable access to quality care, and funding health better is an absolute priority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e4e094b112e4da1961f77f98bb4afd1\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in light of that answer, is he aware both the finance Minister and Treasury have confirmed there is $100 million in a contingency fund set aside to fund additional mental health services? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279dc6cf193dd40719c5c69d13dd0c6d6\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I am intrigued that the member wishes to revisit the \u201CBungle of All Budgets\u201D, where $38 million was misallocated. DHBs didn\u2019t know two weeks before their financial\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227193678a052a4bdc8cedc6e32a71b000\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f24a3bfd186e4b4f8053fbca21328557\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014plans were due how much money they were getting, and the money\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206bb5000953d47dca9c0065c23f7b7f6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! A point of order, Matt Doocey. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a16ffdd6ffaa46b5b5a6ced642605d78\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: The question was, \u201CIs he aware \u2026\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f817e10db1b49128be7fdecca1a1def\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Righto. Well, the problem I\u2019ve got now is that I\u2019m assuming that the Minister was building up to\u2014I mean, he was certainly addressing it, but building up to an answer. What I\u2019m going to do is I\u2019m now going to ask the Minister to give a very direct answer to the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbcd624145f04a218996334c3f4df591\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am aware that a contingency had been set aside of funding that had not been appropriated, because that Government had not funded a single initiative in that contingency package. They hadn\u2019t even begun to do the policy work on it. It\u2019s a complete\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d2d5bf8578f40b78545520124266d86\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a5764764b3f41f3a9c7176e3c76631c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014embarrassment for them. It will not take this Government nine years to make\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b72749d4511446ca3429199604e39bb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! A point of order, the Rt Hon Winston Peters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201a0e075912647d58f5aee1d3d29eeab\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: This place must not be allowed to lose its character, and\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022269e30118e3248cda740b62bb9b25381\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. Order! This is a point of order and it will be heard in silence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0ad98170462436d9db1d267e1259baa\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014one of those features is a preparedness to hear and listen to answers that we hope are generally being put to questions in this House. What we had here was a Minister getting up to define the difference between contingency and actual appropriation, and a barrage of jeers coming from over there because they don\u2019t want to hear the truth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc52c238ddb8420c92be51c082e48d21\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I think the point here is the Minister answered it very succinctly, and then he went on to a whole lot of crazy extraneous stuff that brought the House into disorder. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215a050a704f24ca3b33e8fb1a0f80d22\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, can I say to both the senior members that they were going very well\u2014and probably also to the Minister\u2014early in their interventions and three of them lost quite a lot of sympathy by the way they continued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e101166ffcff4a89b0240909beabd607\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that this money will be used for mental health over the coming months while the mental health inquiry is proceeding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225998789791ef43699fa440c2b9e4595c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: There was no money allocated, so of course I can\u2019t confirm it\u2019s going to be used for anything. Nothing cannot be used for anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233fb17cead1c4b518c66f64bbd28066f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: How can he justify delaying bowel screening and delaying new mental health programmes, just because he\u2019s made so many big health promises that he\u2019s now short of $200 million and he can\u2019t afford to spend money on these vital services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022573da8e8ac954942ad07d072e4e631a0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the assertion in the member\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221f49f18d5fc14a698ef0b28dcd58f21f\u0022\u003ETransport\u2014Funding and National Land Transport Fund\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002245962b251647471d9864b30a07721666\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245962b251647471d9864b30a07721666\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E To the Minister of Transport\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00227dd1131060c24bcea57b0bd4f2a145f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227dd1131060c24bcea57b0bd4f2a145f8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I think Nick Smith and Megan Woods might have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220908fb841196428fb9f807eba8945b04\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: It was actually me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdae06cedafa4417be23aff10a8463f9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Was it you? I apologise. I just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a3a3dd2fcbc4e628dfe22453ba8bf93\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9faf0507f27446ab2da390c32d59366\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think I get acclimatised to Dr Smith and think it\u2019s him. Can the pair of you be quiet. We\u2019ll call that even, and we\u2019ll go to the Hon Judith Collins without interruption from either side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002289f29e807af3406397c89e59ee23b990\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289f29e807af3406397c89e59ee23b990\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: From what source, and in what proportions, is the National Land Transport Fund funded?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00221f22fe479b104ba38965aee3394e1386\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f22fe479b104ba38965aee3394e1386\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The current Government policy statement (GPS) on land transport, revised in February 2017 by the past Government, requires revenue raised from the land transport system to be used for land transport purposes. All revenue from fuel excise duty, road-user charges, motor vehicle registration and licensing fees, revenue from Crown appropriations, management of Crown land interests, and tolling are accounted for in the National Land Transport Fund. The fund\u2019s revenue for 2016-17 was comprised of 52 percent fuel excise duty, 40 percent road-user charges, and 8 percent motor vehicle registration and other revenue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac4dbf26e57b417484102ce96d82c4ef\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he tell the New Zealand public that the national land transport funding for roads would not be redirected to rail when he had already written to some stakeholders saying that the Government is \u201Cexploring how rail investment is incorporated within the Government policy statement and the National Land Transport Fund.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274c8f6e833de470d9b36b60a6903f176\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: To clarify for the member, what I said was that funding for a particular project or funding band for different transport modes in the National Land Transport Programme cannot be changed by the Government of the day. Those decisions are made at arm\u2019s length by the New Zealand Transport Agency board. However, a new Government, with a new enlightened transport policy, can set new priorities and change the funding bands in the land transport programme, and that is exactly what we\u2019re going to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267f9e944b02446c08a2cb80147e9221f\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ba181d4a43f416abe817113cefe1a4d\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: The Lord loves a trier, doesn\u2019t He? If, as the Minister of Transport states, 100 percent\u2014pretty much\u2014of the National Land Transport Fund is paid for by car and truck owners, should they expect this money to be spent on roads?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293fb89b3bb3d427a9fd279e2fb9ae725\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Roads, like all other transport\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8b367de61fb46749ecb678f0eb24869\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e4fe368a6524bce88fd2bee5dbc2712\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Roads, like all other transport modes, are funded from a variety of sources. Local ratepayers, for example, contribute $1.7 billion in the current three-year period. And yet, some people seem to believe that road taxes should be spent only on roads. The member\u2019s argument is totally illogical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea4831d065514ae79c84b4fddaf99ea9\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was very clearly about the funding that comes into and from the National Land Transport Fund, not local roads that are paid for, primarily, by ratepayers. Can the Minister please address the question correctly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d0180ea73774ddbadd233d76755e7dc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thought he addressed it. He mightn\u2019t have answered it, but he addressed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a12d3d128f34bdcb7bb4d190ebace26\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary, Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b4d3a8778a0416c8e3a78a8cf6d825e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Jamie Strange\u2014and he won\u2019t be stared down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6c47b496e5c494797ff1193504c7c76\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve had the look, Mr Speaker. Does the Government intend changing the past Government\u2019s requirement that funds in the National Land Transport Fund be spent for land transport purposes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218b42474f4754aa9bae0bc399c354ea0\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. The new Government policy statement on land transport for 2018 is being worked on. We aim to have the draft GPS out for consultation in March. However, the current requirement that revenue raised from the transport system be spent on land transport aligns perfectly with this Government\u2019s ambition for funding a badly needed rapid transit system for Auckland that will make a serious dent in traffic gridlock, unlocking massive productivity gains, and so that requirement is very unlikely to change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b0a3b09898c4fd59e61105a6bc89cee\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Why should road users nationwide, who contribute $3 billion a year specifically for roading, watch this Labour - New Zealand First Government spend it on an Auckland tram up Dominion Road?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223860625f834e4173b32097ac7251423f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I would have thought that the member would know that rail delivers $1.3 billion a year in reduced road congestion. It saves $63 million a year in road maintenance. The Northern Busway, built by the former Labour-led Government, has taken four lanes of traffic off the harbour bridge every morning. Surely she can see that that\u2019s good for motorists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b3b32591b6d48928d79973367c58902\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister prepared to confirm that the independent New Zealand Transport Agency, which oversees how the $3 billion paid for by New Zealand - wide road users, will still be able to operate independently from the Government, when the Prime Minister\u2019s mentor, the Hon Dame Annette King, is appointed to the chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f82285860474bb39abd3bde4d2f83bb\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: All I can say is that that member is sadly misinformed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a5b77fdc71a849649149782284185461\u0022\u003EChildren in State Care\u2014Historical Abuse, Royal Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u00228604a6b001dd4d518e02154ba65b1ea2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228604a6b001dd4d518e02154ba65b1ea2\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Internal Affairs: What were her key considerations when establishing the inquiry into historical abuse in State care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022420e3140a57b417da5322ecb4d6d58e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022420e3140a57b417da5322ecb4d6d58e1\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E The key consideration was to establish an independent process to listen to those affected and allow the truth to be heard. We want those New Zealanders to know that their Government cares about what happened to them. We want to learn from what happened to them. I hope we can ultimately provide some closure. That means making sure that the truth comes out and that everyone\u2014those involved and the public\u2014feels confident that it has. As the Children\u2019s Commissioner, Judge Andrew Becroft, has rightly said today, survivors of abuse in State care will have the deep hurt they experienced investigated and acknowledged by this new inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbd2f3b21d6546b1a08d98f00f5e312d\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: What will the process for the inquiry be from here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240f4b366f14045399d5fcadd22b6b907\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: The inquiry was formally established today. The first phase will include a period of consultation on the draft terms of reference, led by the Rt Hon Sir Anand Satyanand. The inquiry will be supported by an independent secretariat, which Sir Anand will establish soon. As the Minister of Internal Affairs, I will report back in late April on the final terms of reference, additional inquiry members, the budget for the inquiry, and details of the survivor advisory panel. The inquiry is then expected to begin to consider the evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaae80cbd10f47a8b9ef5666d98eeb48\u0022\u003EClayton Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government choose a royal commission of inquiry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d2d0078a87e44fd8a37c33fa9ac9e1a\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Royal commissions are reserved for the most serious matters of public importance. Cabinet agreed to establish a royal commission to acknowledge the seriousness of this issue and to signal that this Government is committed to investigating at the highest level. This also provides the best assurance to survivors and their families\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2377e9083834651a5d954ca8bc43931\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am going to ask the Minister to sit down. I can understand why members got agitated by the interjection. This is a very serious matter and I understand why members were offended. But I think it is also important that the Minister is given a chance to outline the process for persons outside the House who aren\u2019t as familiar with it as some members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb2fb4f060d440b3b2efea087aff4dbd\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, Mr Speaker. So Cabinet agreed to establish a royal commission to acknowledge the seriousness of this issue and to signal that this Government is committed to investigating at the highest level. This also provides the best assurance to survivors and their families of the independence of the inquiry process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022155b2ba4210a4b62b4093c4b9464b2b8\u0022\u003EWater Supplies\u2014Storage Projects\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u00225d13b1aaa75b4d3b88b147087442399f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d13b1aaa75b4d3b88b147087442399f\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: Does he stand by all his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc808b297cf44813a56620641e4026e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc808b297cf44813a56620641e4026e7\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they were given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c906ced5113c420cb9935ad45baeff45\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: What is his Government\u2019s policy on supporting water storage and irrigation projects given that seven regions have been declared in a drought this summer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed5bc21fb01b4c79972c769e03263774\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: This Government supports water storage. We also support farmers when they need it, and I was very happy to declare a drought three times, in three regions that need it. On the basis of my success\u2014and that rain followed\u2014I have to say it\u2019s probably cheaper to fly me round the country than it is to build big storage schemes to get water on the ground.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8b764d3456b4ae183ee5963b8838fe9\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Given that there are two coalition agreements\u2014one with New Zealand First that states \u201Chonouring existing agreements\u201D and one with the Greens that talks about winding down Government support for irrigation\u2014and then Shane Jones, who\u2019s publicly stating he will support localised water storage and irrigation schemes, is he not surprised that officials that were in front of the Primary Production Committee are hearing from stakeholders and themselves that they are confused and that there\u2019s a huge amount of anxiety because the Government won\u2019t step forward and say publicly which projects they support and whether the funding will be allocated, or robbed for stupid things like student\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db35ebf0e97f44049e4e80f7d1af2e5d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m faced with a bit of a problem because the member did have a question that went well beyond a question, but there were also, I think, three interjections from my right during the question. So I think what we\u2019ll do is we\u2019ll add another supplementary for the National Party on an on-balance basis, but I\u2019m going to ask the Hon Nathan Guy, if he does get a further supplementary question, to make it one that is a question and not a rambling statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228abb11ddc0ff4607b4afedb6f32ab489\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The Government does support water storage. We have said quite clearly, however, that we will wind down Crown Irrigation Investments Ltd because we believe that the money that the National Government gave to schemes was unnecessary. We believe there will be water storage projects in the future, but farmers and industry are going to have to work through the best ways of developing those. The coalition agreement between our coalition partners is quite clear. The member quoted them himself, and we stand by those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7ae891e74b24122a71808fd74f97bd9\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that five localised projects are construction-ready in 2018\u2014two in April, two in June, one in August\u2014totalling 45,000 hectares\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212993b8b4df94c3bbac1267752bc2ec4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, that\u2019s enough\u2014that\u2019s enough. The member\u2019s asked a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f7e6de6b502427bbe4de86ee12e6731\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Yes, I did ask a question, but I was just concluding my sentence with another very important point in terms of context. I would have appreciated you allowing me to finish my question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d30f89f0e69346fca52b4b46edecf4c4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I can appreciate that the member might have appreciated that, but what I\u2019m trying to do to members of the House\u2014and as far as written questions, people have done it very well today\u2014is encourage members, when they have asked a question, not to add material that is unnecessary to that question being answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285095420931544a8a413134fbea86f37\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of five projects, and probably more, that farmers around the country would like to have. Those five projects are at different stages of development. They are not ready, as that member states, and can I say that Ministers are working through this extensive decision-making process, and the member\u2019s just going to have to wait for the decisions to be made. We\u2019ve been very clear and up-front with Crown Irrigation Investments; I think they are comfortable with our position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250f062a7b1b74966be07c82de732bc03\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that if these five projects aren\u2019t funded, as the commitment has been made by Crown Irrigation and the Ministry for Primary Industries this year, the Crown\u2014the Government\u2014will be exposed legally and morally?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc9c3824d8464b4eb2391ad204e8c894\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m aware of different stages of development for all those projects. I don\u2019t accept the position put forward by the member over there. We will work through this very carefully, mindful of the legal obligations to the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c91d03038914b8c810582a1a342fceb\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: While the Minister publicly stated, \u201CI think [the Waimea Dam] is necessary\u201D in September last year, will he support other irrigation projects or continue to be no friend of the farmer, as he\u2019s already publicly stated since he became Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022004cad71c186403fb35267b8b5fad208\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I mean, first and last calls: it\u2019s both out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284d829313d7f4ad2aac95af3ee6b8552\u0022\u003ELocal Government, Minister\u2014Written Questions Responses\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022154cb505478a40ee8fa94d482eb6e4a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022154cb505478a40ee8fa94d482eb6e4a5\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: Does she stand by all her answers to written questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff2d255589b54548a470ab5c44955c85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff2d255589b54548a470ab5c44955c85\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Local Government: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226864dc9025a140acbd6a214006bf41ce\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her answer to written question 15168, where she said she\u2019d received no correspondence from the Whangarei District Council between 26 October and 28 November 2017?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222626ca8bdeb841f5b87a7ae76e9ce944\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d19842d324ae464681e11aec79f257f1\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: How then can it be that her office replied to correspondence from the Whangarei District Council from 7 November 2017 when the council asked to meet with the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233cc9bd9595b45e68ebeff544b3e4548\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: If the member can\u2019t understand the difference between an invitation and a piece of correspondence, he might want to ponder that a little bit further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022239ae69d40074f85b710458f6606ff2e\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister still stand by all of her answers given yesterday, where she said she\u2019d received no correspondence from the Whakat\u0101ne District Council, when clearly she had replied to it, as demonstrated yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291c589c04feb478da97612c430bdd251\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is referring to the document that he tabled in the House yesterday, which he described as \u201Ccorrespondence from the Whakat\u0101ne District Council\u201D and then sought leave to table and was given leave to table, he was, in fact, referring to an invitation the Minister had received from the chair of Local Government New Zealand\u2019s zone 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276f70dfbf29349a19b83b28b9d7a8902\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister telling the House that correspondence received from the office of the Mayor of the Whakat\u0101ne District Council isn\u2019t from the Whakat\u0101ne District Council?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022084c44f5dff747dfa28433598991ab58\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Not if he\u2019s acting in a different role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7afebc11bde4389aa00f12f186ae0bc\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: When can councils and the public have any confidence that this Minister will start taking her job seriously?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022074807f0694a44a8be8ff59d1adc04e6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister does take her job very seriously, and she\u2019s not spending her time obsessing about the difference between correspondence and invitations, as the member seems to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8071ae8151b4f1792543b5a4911a26c\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter to the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, the Minister of Local Government, from the Whangarei District Council on 7 November 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd10129739b64d42ae67a9c4f3a08d6f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that document being tabled? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220826d611a1dd4438a4232ddeacd35c22\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d867e780c84d42fa86a347aa4178e684\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there a group? If so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297bfeb79812d4b84ad96eb08bf18c0b8\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: This is the last one. There\u2019ll be more next week. I seek leave to table a letter from the office of Nanaia Mahuta to the Mayor of Whangarei dated 27 November 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223063c59d2b884da58e642788478ad072\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that document being tabled? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a25f800cebc41abae8c5a483a192141\u0022\u003ECustoms Service\u2014Role in Harm Reduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8b0243bd6414f79afcfa4f5b240d04c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8b0243bd6414f79afcfa4f5b240d04c\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Customs: What advice has she received regarding the role Customs plays in reducing harm to New Zealand families, wh\u0101nau, and communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022470f9bc735a64ecabd773506fcb0f2bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022470f9bc735a64ecabd773506fcb0f2bf\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E I have been advised that each year the use of illicit drugs costs this country $1.8 billion in social harm and Government interventions. The social cost of amphetamines alone is close to $350 million. Every year, each frequent user imposes $15,000 on their wh\u0101nau and friends. The cost on families and communities is astronomical, and this Government is absolutely committed to bucking this trend and reducing harm. Customs\u2019 role in this is vital, through their focus on stopping the illicit importation of methamphetamine and disrupting the ability of organised crime groups to influence the market and profit from this smuggling activity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c419025456db4653aef5dd41554391ff\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume her seat. She\u2019s well and truly answered the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217375553e0af41d5bb4706fad2267276\u0022\u003ELouisa Wall\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has the Minister received regarding the role customs plays in reducing harm to New Zealand families, wh\u0101nau, and communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edfd654e79f54823a6d72f7e34d99767\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: We believe seizures made offshore last year, before they reached New Zealand, prevented $57 million in potential social harm. In 2015-16, 34,000 New Zealanders reported using meth\u20141.1 percent of the adult population\u2014but the disturbing thing is waste water results indicate actual use is much higher. M\u0101ori are three to four times more likely to use amphetamines than non-M\u0101ori in 2015-16. Declaring a war on P is a priority for customs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002221ea12c9d04a4a10b702a24982be96f1\u0022\u003EStanding Orders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002232ad65d1e1604d3a91f89e47e5bf783f\u0022\u003ESessional\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00229aed4698e465418d92722f2f0e00f93b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229aed4698e465418d92722f2f0e00f93b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Leader of the House: I move, That the following rules relating to the Intelligence and Security Committee be adopted as a sessional order: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EINTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY COMMITTEE\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E1\tDefinitions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFor the purposes of these rules,\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIntelligence and Security Committee means the Intelligence and Security Committee that is continued by the Intelligence and Security Act 2017\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003Eintelligence and security agency means\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(a)\tthe New Zealand Security Intelligence Service:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(b)\tthe Government Communications Security Bureau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E2\tConduct of committee\u2019s proceedings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESubject to the Intelligence and Security Act 2017, the proceedings of the Intelligence and Security Committee are conducted in accordance with the rules and practice of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E3\tReferral of bill or other matter to committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(1)\tThe House may refer to the Intelligence and Security Committee any bill or other matter relating to an intelligence and security agency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(2)\tStanding Orders 287 to 296, 298, 300, 318(3), and 329(1) apply and are to be read as if the Intelligence and Security Committee were a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(3)\tThe Clerk may allocate to the Intelligence and Security Committee a paper presented under Standing Order 265 concerning the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E4\tReferral of petition to committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EDespite Standing Order 370, every petition relating to an intelligence and security agency stands referred to the Intelligence and Security Committee for consideration and report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E5\tEstimates and Supplementary Estimates for intelligence and security agencies \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(1)\tDespite Standing Orders 337(2) and 342(1), the Finance and Expenditure Committee must refer to the Intelligence and Security Committee the Votes or appropriations contained in the Estimates and Supplementary Estimates for each intelligence and security agency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(2)\tStanding Orders 330(1), 338, 340, 342(2), and 343(3)(b) apply and are to be read as if the Intelligence and Security Committee were a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E6\tAnnual reviews of intelligence and security agencies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(1)\tDespite Standing Order 345, the Finance and Expenditure Committee must allocate to the Intelligence and Security Committee the annual review of each intelligence and security agency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(2)\tStanding Orders 346(2), 348(1)(b) and (3), and 349 apply and are to be read as if the Intelligence and Security Committee were a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E7\tExamination of policy, administration, and expenditure of intelligence and security agency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn addition to its consideration of Estimates, Supplementary Estimates and annual reviews, the Intelligence and Security Committee may, at any time, examine the policy, administration, and expenditure of an intelligence and security agency, and may report to the House on such an examination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E8\tReports of Intelligence and Security Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(1)\tIn addition to its reports on business considered under Rules 3 to 7, the Intelligence and Security Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(a)\tpresents an annual report to the House on the activities of the committee:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(b)\tmay report at any time on a matter relating to intelligence and security that it wishes to draw to the attention of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(2)\tSubject to the Intelligence and Security Act 2017, Standing Orders 243 to 252 apply to reports of the Intelligence and Security Committee and are to be read as if they were reports of a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E9\tConfidential proceedings of Intelligence and Security Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EStanding Orders 114, 380(4), and 386(3), which relate to references to committee proceedings in debate, questions and replies, apply to proceedings of the Intelligence and Security Committee as if it were a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E10\tRestriction of select committee briefings and inquiries relating to intelligence and security matters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EDespite Standing Order 189(2), no select committee may receive a briefing on, or initiate an inquiry into, matters related to an intelligence and security agency, unless the House approves that briefing or inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E11\tCopies of records of Intelligence and Security Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(1)\tSubject to paragraph (2), the Intelligence and Security Committee must provide to the House a copy of all records held by the committee in relation to the performance of its functions under section 193(1)(a) to (d) of the Intelligence and Security Act 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(2)\tA copy of a record provided under paragraph (1) must be provided only after protected information is removed in accordance with the Intelligence and Security Act 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E(3)\tA copy of a record provided under this rule is maintained in the custody of the Clerk as a record belonging to the House. Standing Orders 10 and 11 apply and are to be read accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI further move, That under section 196 of the Intelligence and Security Act 2017, this House endorse the following as members of the Intelligence and Security Committee: Hon Amy Adams and Hon Christopher Finlayson, nominated by the Leader of the Opposition under section 194(2)(c) of the Act; and Rt Hon Winston Peters, Hon Andrew Little, and Hon James Shaw, nominated by the Prime Minister under section 194(2)(d) of the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThrough the Intelligence and Security Committee, the House exercises oversight and review of the intelligence and security departments\u2014namely, the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service and the Government Communications Security Bureau. Motions similar to these are brought to the House in the early months of every new Government, but this is the first time that they have been under the authority of the new Intelligence and Security Act, which was enacted last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Intelligence and Security Committee is created by statute, rather than by the House itself. It is not a select committee, but the first motion now before the House establishes procedures that allow it to act, in most respects, as if it were a select committee. It creates a sessional order that allows the Intelligence and Security Committee to consider bills and petitions, to conduct estimates and annual review examinations, and to carry out other security functions that are usually within the remit of select committees. The proceedings of the committee are largely conducted in accordance with the rules and practice of the House. An Office of the Clerk staff member acts as clerk of the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe second motion before the House today concerns the membership of the committee. The Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition are automatically members appointed by section 194 of the Intelligence and Security Act 2017. That Act has introduced flexibility around the total membership of the committee, which can now consist of five to seven members. This allows the membership to better represent our MMP Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAfter the process of consultation set out in the Act, the Prime Minister has nominated the Rt Hon Winston Peters, the Hon Andrew Little, and the Hon James Shaw. The Leader of the Opposition has nominated the Hon Amy Adams and the Hon Chris Finlayson. Thus, the committee will have a great depth of experience on which to draw and will represent the full range of views on intelligence and security issues from across the House. I recommend that the House endorse these nominations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u00226700750d309a432a973cebef63c5e515\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226700750d309a432a973cebef63c5e515\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I thank you. I rise to speak in support of Government motion No. 1 and look forward to serving again on this committee. The Intelligence and Security Committee has become a critical part of the oversight and checking of a core part of our democracy, and that is the operation of the intelligence and security community, of course. As a result of the review carried out by the last Government in 2013, the operation of both the committee that we\u2019re discussing today and the wider oversight framework that that committee plays a part of has become significantly strengthened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIt is not an exaggeration to say that we live in a world, unfortunately, of increasingly diverse and complex threats to our economy, to our people, and to society, and we live in a world where intelligence and security agencies like the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service and the New Zealand Government Communications Security Bureau are a very necessary part of our society and they have the privilege of having unique and potentially very intrusive powers. Now, while those powers are absolutely necessary and warranted, it\u2019s equally important for the confidence of society in those organisations that there is proper accountability to this House and to the public more widely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe committee sits, of course, as part, as I said, of that oversight framework, making up the committee, the inspector-general, and the Commissioner of Security Warrants. I have been fortunate to sit on the committee for some years in the previous Parliament along with the Hon Christopher Finlayson, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, and the Hon Andrew Little, and it will be enjoyable to have the opportunity to work with them again. The committee in my experience has always worked carefully and constructively and with the best interests of New Zealand in mind, and we look forward to welcoming the Hon James Shaw and, of course, the Rt Hon Bill English and the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern, as Mr Robertson has said, in their roles, of course, as automatic appointees as Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThis is an important motion. I appreciate it won\u2019t be one that is of particular interest to the media or perhaps the public at home, but this committee does have that critical role of carrying out oversight, often in secret. And while that secrecy is necessary and warranted, it does mean that there is an extraordinary level of confidence that needs to be placed both in the protocols of the committee and the selection of the membership to it. It is important that you have members with experience, with integrity, and with a working knowledge of the legal systems and the operation of our Intelligence and Security Committee. In my experience, as I\u2019ve said, the committee functions very well. It is an incredibly important committee. I would want to take the opportunity to repeat my desire that the committee does look to operate in public and to disseminate as much of its findings and conclusions as it can so that the public can learn more about the ways in which our intelligence and security community works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI would like to commend the two agencies that make up the intelligence community for what I\u2019ve seen is their very genuine desire in recent years to be more open with the public about the nature of the work and the extent of the threat. I think that sort of openness has helped New Zealanders to better understand the threats that we face and the way in which we respond to them. I think that has been helpful and I certainly hope that that openness and transparency continues in so far as is sensible, in light, of course, of their ultimate objective, which is the protection of New Zealand and New Zealanders. With those words, I am pleased to support the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002237327a5a76db4638b0a0e0fdbf0fe6a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237327a5a76db4638b0a0e0fdbf0fe6a6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E In our country\u2019s democratic system, one of Parliament\u2019s most important functions is to serve as a check and balance on the actions and behaviour of the executive. This debate is not meant to be a backslapping exercise but to deal with the realities of the truth. There is no area of greater sensitivity or secrecy within the executive\u2019s various operations than intelligence and security matters. The Intelligence and Security Committee serves therefore as a crucial guardian of the guardians of New Zealand security. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EToo long under the last Government the guardian was sidelined\u2014not asleep but just left out. The committee barely met, even as more intelligence-related issues raised massive concerns about the conduct of those core institutions. Once secrecy becomes sacrosanct in this respect it invites abuse. That laissez-faire approach will end, and it needs to, and it will, under the new membership, no longer continue. New Zealanders need to know that their parliamentarians are keeping a check on the policies, administration, and expenditure of the intelligence agencies. The leadership of the newly constituted committee will ensure this function is performed diligently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s an old saying that the success of democracy depends on the enlightenment of its people. The people should know what\u2019s going on and public officials should keep the people informed in the area of intelligence and security. This concept is a most challenging one, so it\u2019s been encouraging to see, for example, the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security exhibit leadership over some of the conduct of our intelligence agencies and their policy interpretations or misinterpretations. The Intelligence and Security Committee will offer strong support to the Inspector-General in her role. In the famous words of John Philpot Curran, \u201CThe condition [in] which God [gives] liberty to man is eternal vigilance;\u201D, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re going to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f373d128fe984c7ba1c5d7b07055e54b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f373d128fe984c7ba1c5d7b07055e54b\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s no secret that the Green Party has had a complicated relationship with the Intelligence and Security Committee. For almost 20 years, Green Party MPs have been calling in this House for this committee to be reformed; for it to much more closely reflect other select committees in Parliament, in transparency, accountability, and membership; for it to move away from operating as a secret meeting, reflecting the old days of first past the post; and for it to much more represent and honour the realities and intentions of MMP. That is why we\u2019re endorsing the membership of the committee before the House today. We\u2019re really pleased that the Prime Minister has chosen to include representatives from every party on this side of the House. It is unfortunate that National has chosen not to include ACT Party leader David Seymour so that every party in Parliament could be represented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EDespite that, the make-up of the committee being endorsed today is a victory for us. There are representatives from every parliamentary party with more than one MP, and it\u2019s roughly in proportion to the number of MPs each party has in the House. During the latest update of the Intelligence and Security Act last year, we got an amendment to the membership clause that requires now that the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition have regard to the proportionality of parties represented in Parliament. It is a joy to see that come to fruition today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe had hoped for a bigger committee, to more closely mirror the other parliamentary committees, but we\u2019re heartened that the current size of the committee is as big as it can be with the constraints of the Act as its stands. The Green Party believes that this is a healthier, more democratic, and more balanced representation that will, in turn, provide more robust oversight of agencies that otherwise operate under a cloak of secrecy. It means that the committee is now likely to have a broader range of views represented on it, including those who are questioning or sceptical of the methods and activities of New Zealand\u2019s intelligence agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe were last members of this committee through our then co-leader Russel Norman in 2014, during a time most New Zealanders will remember was very controversial for New Zealand\u2019s security agencies. As a member of this committee, we did our best to ensure that the committee operated as a true watchdog. The Green Party sought, among other things, an inquiry into John Key\u2019s appointment of Ian Fletcher as the head of the GCSB. We asked for an inquiry into the Five Eyes network, and we were the only member of the committee who asked questions about the financial reviews of the GCSB and SIS. That is what effective oversight looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EAnd there\u2019s room for more reform. In other jurisdictions, committees like this operate with far more members, far more independence in their oversight. We\u2019d like to see, for example, the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security become an Officer of Parliament, like the Auditor-General or the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, who report to this House of Representatives rather than the executive alone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThe Green Party intends to be an effective member of this committee, to do our best to give the public much better oversight of the security and services than we have seen in the past. We will bring cautious and, at times, sceptical scrutiny of the committee\u2019s work and the spy agencies\u2019 activities. We will also treat our responsibility on the committee with appropriate discipline and the code of conduct that is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe are pleased to accept the Prime Minister\u2019s nomination onto the committee, and we will be voting for the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00228c28fafd6c4f4cf08a3002257b83bb3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c28fafd6c4f4cf08a3002257b83bb3e\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I rise in support of these motions. I think that we\u2019re very lucky in New Zealand to have a pretty good solution to the problem of who watches the watchers. And, of course, it needn\u2019t be said that various States at various times in history have fallen into tyranny due to a failure to solve that problem. I think the people on the committee will do a fine job, in the tradition of New Zealand, of being those who watch the watchers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI can\u2019t help but reflect on Golriz Ghahraman\u2019s comments regarding the size of the committee, and give my thanks, ironically enough, to the Leader of the House, who very magnanimously offered to expand the committee to a membership of seven, in order that there might be an ACT Party member on the committee. I think it won\u2019t have escaped members that, from time to time, despite its small size, ACT brings to the House a unique perspective that sometimes makes debate more interesting and, dare I say it, a little bit better. There was an opportunity for that to occur on the Intelligence and Security Committee, as well. It\u2019s unfortunate that the Leader of the Opposition decided, for reasons best known to him, that he would rather block, or veto, that expansion. If he could not have three National Party members, then he would rather have only five members on the committee overall\u2014an odd decision for the Leader of the Opposition to make, but I\u2019m sure that a lot of his colleagues will be reflecting on decisions like that in months to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo, Mr Assistant Speaker, I commend these motions to the House, and thank you very much for your time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EMotions agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002237e28103c1144298bd298952859021d0\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229270aa97ec42487bb78aea44a8dda0ec\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022f86ec9fed29b42e48aebc08aa5aeb0aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f86ec9fed29b42e48aebc08aa5aeb0aa\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Education and Workforce Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Employment Relations Act 2000 to implement the Government\u2019s 100-day commitments on workplace relations. The proposals are designed to provide greater protection to workers, especially vulnerable workers, and to strengthen the role of collective bargaining in the workplace to ensure fair wages and conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EFor too long the employment relations system has been failing too many people in New Zealand. Low wages, limited pay increases, and a steady erosion of conditions became prevalent under the previous Government. Recent economic growth, while welcomed, is worryingly supported by increasing volumes of low-paid work, rather than through building the skills, innovation, and productivity that drive a high-wage economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe reforms set out in this bill begin to give effect to this Government\u2019s vision for a highly skilled and innovative economy that delivers good jobs, decent conditions, and fair wages for a fair day\u2019s work. An effective employment relations framework balances the need for employers to have flexibility in how they run their businesses while providing safeguards and rights to employees. This bill rolls back a number of the previous Government\u2019s amendments that weakened employees\u2019 rights at work and tipped the balance too far away from the principles of basic fairness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis bill contains 14 amendments to the Employment Relations Act. They can be grouped into two main categories: the provision of a set of minimum protections for the workforce as a whole, and strengthening the role of collective bargaining and unions in industrial relations. Minimum standards are key to ensuring vulnerable workers are not taken advantage of. We want to ensure that all employers treat workers with decency and respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI first want to address the issue of trial periods. It\u2019s fair to say that there are differing views about trial periods, which is why we have worked closely and collaboratively with our partners in Government to reach a position that limits 90-day trial periods to employers with fewer than 20 employees. I\u2019d like to thank the New Zealand First Party and the Green Party for a constructive discussion on these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EResearch from the Motu Economic and Public Policy Research Trust has indicated that small businesses are the most likely to use trial periods, and we hear from business organisations that employers can be encouraged to hire workers if trial periods are available. However, the same research from Motu suggests that the evidence isn\u2019t strong. What is clear is the need for more research on the impact, both positive and negative, of 90-day trial periods, to complement the Motu research.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI note with some degree of disappointment that the previous Government, essentially, failed to canvass the views of workers on this issue, although, frankly, I\u2019m hardly surprised. As we account for the benefits of 90-day trials to employers, we must also account for their costs to New Zealand workers. They can lead to uncertainty and anxiety for new employees. When employers do dismiss people on trial periods, this may cause significant distress, exacerbated when workers are not provided reasons and where they believe the dismissal is unfair. The lack of a process for workers to challenge the dismissal may worsen their experience. It may mean that some employees face difficulty in finding subsequent employment if they are dismissed under a trial position without knowing the reason. In future, they may have to account for that dismissal, which may harm their future employment prospects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EEmployees may also become risk-averse about moving jobs, if it means moving from a job in which they have protections against unjustified dismissal into one where they can be summarily dismissed. That may make the overall labour market less flexible and may also harm employers who have a less engaged and less productive workforce. The position we\u2019ve reached will mean that trials will be limited to employers who appear to be gaining the most relative benefit out of them, while limiting their scope, to ensure that as many workers as possible are protected by the standard provisions around unjustified dismissal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ESmall businesses employ approximately 29 percent of employees in New Zealand. The remaining 71 percent of employees will have access to personal grievances for unjustified dismissal, from day one. Larger employers usually have more sophisticated hiring systems in place, they are better placed to manage the risks involved in hiring new employees, and the harm of an underperforming employee is considerably less than that for a small firm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe do need to learn more about the effects of trial periods. I plan to undertake further research on the scale and use of 90-day trials, the number of dismissals, and its impact on employees and the economy, to ensure that trial periods are working appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EElsewhere, to enhance minimum standards, the bill restores an employee\u2019s right to a minimum number and duration of set rest and meal breaks. The previous Government took away this right, nickel-and-diming Kiwi workers. We are restoring it. This will give employees enough time to rest, refresh, and eat during working hours and be able to continue to work safely. I recognise that there are limited circumstances where, for safety reasons, it will not be possible to provide breaks in this way. The bill includes a narrow exception for those businesses that provide an essential service, where the continuity of the service is critical to the public interest, and the cost of replacing the employee with a person sufficient to cover the break is unreasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe are also bringing back an employee\u2019s right to request to return to their position as the primary remedy in unjustified dismissal cases, where practical and reasonable. While this is rarely used, it is important to move the starting point for resolving disputes away from payouts so that the real possibility of a return to work is considered as the first option. If the relationship can be saved, this is better for workers and employers. Part 6A of the Employment Relations Act contains an important set of protections for workers in industries with a history of driving down their conditions to rock bottom, where contracts change hands frequently. The rules provide critical protection for vulnerable workers, such as cleaners and caterers, by allowing them to transfer their employment, with the same terms and conditions and entitlements, to an incoming employer when a contract that affects the work they are doing changes hands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe previous Government introduced an exemption to the Act that meant small to medium sized employers (SMEs) did not have to offer a transfer to existing employees on the same terms and conditions, or at all. This bill proposes to repeal the SME exemption, to restore the right for employees to transfer on the same terms and conditions. Together, these proposals will make New Zealand workplaces fairer and safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe second set of reforms relates to collective bargaining and union rights. We want to put in place a fairer framework for workers to bargain for better terms and conditions. Collective bargaining and union relations are critical elements of success for some of our most successful companies. The previous Government weakened the collective bargaining and union recognition framework. This has led to worse working conditions for many New Zealanders and a more unequal society. The bill proposes to remove the ability of employers to opt out of multi-employer collective bargaining at the outset of bargaining. The current opt-out undermines the object of the Act to promote collective bargaining, and has been seen as inconsistent with New Zealand\u2019s obligations under ILO Convention 98 on the Right to Organise and Bargain Collectively. Employers could still conclude a single-employer agreement after multi-employer bargaining, but the change will mean that they at least have to come to the table and discuss the merits of a possible multi-employer collective agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EChanges by the previous National Government allowed employers to deduct wages for partial strikes. In some instances, this has resulted in employees losing pay for low-level action such as wearing a T-shirt instead of wearing their uniform. Pay deductions for partial strikes is an unfair restriction on collective action. This bill proposes to repeal pay deductions as a response to partial strikes. We also propose that collective agreements must include pay rates. This amendment follows recent case law that held that refusing to include pay rates in a collective agreement did not equate to a genuine reason not to conclude bargaining. Pay is a key term of employment, and the ability to exclude pay from collective bargaining runs contrary to the very purpose of the Act. This has been a challenging drafting exercise, and I encourage members of the select committee to listen carefully to submitters on this aspect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis legislation restores minimum rights for all working people, and it improves workers\u2019 bargaining positions in the workplace. To lift wages, we must not only grow our economy; we need to ensure that we have an industrial relations framework that shares the growth amongst the people who earn that growth. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u00220a914c337bbd4987926f3adf6cbdef46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a914c337bbd4987926f3adf6cbdef46\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E The Employment Relations Amendment Bill, which has just been introduced by the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety, will take New Zealand backwards\u2014have absolutely no doubt about that. There is nothing in this bill that will, ultimately, be good for New Zealand or the workers of New Zealand. About the only thing that I agree with in the speech from the Minister was where, at the end, he agreed that a good industrial relations framework is critical to a strong and growing economy. I agree with that, but you cannot, I say to the Minister, simply announce that this bill will help workers and insert fairness into the workplace, and make it so. You have to look at what the bill actually does and the impact that it\u2019s going to have on jobs, on costs, and on workers in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThat is what we\u2019re seeing time and time again from this Government. They start with a high-level \u201Cmotherhood and apple pie\u201D statement about saving the world and then expect no one to question the detail, the plan, or what it\u2019s actually going to mean. I am going to try and do that, because I think this is important. This is a bill and this is a framework and this is an industrial relations plan from this Government that is going to cost jobs in New Zealand. It is going to increase the costs of the goods and services that are supplied and produced in New Zealand. I have no doubt it\u2019s going to lead to more industrial action and more strike action, the likes of which we haven\u2019t seen in this country for many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to start with the changes to the 90-day trial period, and that\u2019s certainly one of the changes that\u2019s received a lot of attention in the media. It\u2019s one of the easier-to-grasp and sort of sound bite - type issues. Look, I welcome the Government backing down and now allowing businesses with 19 or fewer employees to take that. That\u2019s a good start, but I want to question this\u2014well, I want to question several things, but, first of all, if the Government now acknowledges that allowing very small businesses to take a chance on a younger or more vulnerable worker is a good thing, why would you cut off that opportunity for 70 percent of the jobs in this country? And, look, the Government likes to quote the Motu Economic and Public Policy Research Trust report in saying that\u2019s the reason it\u2019s all\u2014well, even the Motu report, which, by the way, we don\u2019t accept the methodology of, and we absolutely dispute that it\u2019s in any way consistent with the findings of the growth of jobs in this country. But even that report acknowledges that the 90-day trial periods have lifted the employment rate in the construction sector by more than 10 percent. Now, the construction sector is largely made up of businesses with well more than 19 staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe other point on the 90-day employment rates that I just cannot make head or tail of is why you would set it up\u2014given that this is a Government who\u2019s bringing them back; they can do it any way they like\u2014so that it punishes businesses that choose to employ more part-timers and women who job-share, because, at the moment, if you employed 15 people full-time, you\u2019d be exempt, but if those same 15 full-time positions were job-shared or made up of a number of young mums or vulnerable workers working part-time, they\u2019ll be subject to the Act. They\u2019ll be subject to not having trial periods, and you know those businesses are going to say, \u201CThat\u2019s too hard, I\u2019m sorry. I\u2019ll only go with the fulltime-equivalent.\u201D It\u2019s simply not fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EMeal breaks\u2014now, I have to challenge the Minister. He misled this House, in my opinion, by suggesting that, currently, workers are denied reasonable meal and rest breaks under the Act. That is simply not true, and I would also challenge the Government to show this House\u2014we\u2019ve got lots more speeches to come\u2014any quantitative information that suggests the rest and meal breaks changes are creating a problem and that people are missing out on breaks. In fact, I have come across any number of workers who\u2019ve said to me, \u201CLook, frankly, I would far rather finish my five-hour block quickly, do my work in one fell swoop, have an apple or a muesli bar at my desk, and get home to my kids to meet the school bus. If you make me take a half-hour lunch break and a 15-minute smoko break, that just means I either get paid less or I miss the school bus.\u201D How is that good for workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ETo me, this is about the Labour Party infantilising the workforce and the businesses of New Zealand. They don\u2019t treat them as adults who can have sensible conversations about how you set up the work day in a way that\u2019s fair. No business wants workers who are tired and rundown and not able to do their job\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298da6702a92247c6aa9ac0fcbeeda29a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: And starving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226eb4cbc5f39f4b4bb873c6d411d7d643\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: And starving\u2014that\u2019s exactly right. But we do treat them as adults who can actually work out for themselves what makes sense, and I challenge, again, the Government to point to examples that justify this change, taking away flexibility from the entire sector simply because it doesn\u2019t meet their ideology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EAnd I want to make one other point. We\u2019ve seen a few comments from businesses saying, \u201CWell, at least they\u2019ve backed off the 90-day trial periods for small businesses. It\u2019s not much, but we\u2019ll take it.\u201D But how many of those small businesses know that with the other hand, the Government has now imposed a whole lot more cost on small businesses who are currently exempt from the business restructuring rules? So, on the one hand, they might\u2019ve been able to keep what they\u2019ve already got, but, on the other hand, they\u2019re being taken backwards as more costs now go on small businesses that they don\u2019t currently have in restructuring. Where is New Zealand First standing up for small business there? Nowhere to be seen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EUnder this legislation, unions can require businesses to start bargaining at any time they like, no matter how long has gone, and, as we heard from the Minister, they can force businesses to take part in multi-employer discussions. So no longer can a business say, \u201CLet\u2019s have a sensible discussion between me and my workforce, and the unions if that\u2019s what the workers want, about what goes on in this workplace.\u201D Actually, employers, with this bill, are going to be cut out of bargaining for their workforce. And you wait till the second part of the changes when they\u2019re cut out completely. Already in here, businesses will be forced to accept whatever deal is done by other people, and I don\u2019t think that\u2019s right. And let\u2019s be really clear: this is not just about \u201CHey, come to the table and see what the deal is.\u201D, because the bill also says that once bargaining starts\u2014and, remember, you have no choice about that as a business; you have to take part at any time\u2014businesses may not leave the table until a deal is done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s a bit like saying, \u201CI\u2019m going to buy your house, and guess what? You have to keep negotiating with me until I\u2019m happy with the price. You don\u2019t get to choose. I\u2019m buying the house, and you may not leave this negotiation until I\u2019ve decided the price is right.\u201D How is that a negotiation? How is that fair? That is simply requiring businesses to sit at the table and lose productivity at their own cost while their business suffers, until the union decides they\u2019re prepared to conclude their deal. That is not fair, that is not reasonable, and that is not a negotiation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ENow, this bill also makes businesses become union recruiters. When you hire a worker now as a business, you\u2019re going to have to make sure you\u2019re explaining to your workers why they should join the union, how they go about it, and, oh, by the way, you have to put them on the collective contract for 30 days, whether they want it or not. Never mind what the worker wants\u2014never mind what the worker wants. You have to put them on those terms negotiated by the union. You have to give them the forms to sign up to the union. Their details\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022563cae5d10d54e58b87389325f6795f3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Please don\u2019t bring the Speaker into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0b9cda4d9a746f6ad6b78f8177bc139\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I beg your pardon, Mr Assistant Speaker. You are quite right. The employer has to provide the information about the union. The employer has to put the worker on the union terms. The employer has to provide the worker\u2019s details to the union. And why should they? Workers in New Zealand and businesses in New Zealand are grown up, so deserve the right to decide for themselves whether they want to join the union. If the unions have a value proposition that makes sense, the workers will join. Why are you forcing workers to take part? If the unions can\u2019t sell their offering to the workers themselves, then they should give up and go home just like the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EUnions can now come and go from business premises whenever they like without notice, without consent. Now, again, you should\u2014Mr Assistant Speaker, I apologise. I challenge the Government to show me where it has been a problem that unions haven\u2019t been able to get reasonable access to the workplace. We know it hasn\u2019t, because it\u2019s guaranteed in the law. But reasonable access is not enough. They want to be able to come and go as they choose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI wonder how many businesses know that union members now get to have to be paid by the business for doing union work. So the unions are forcing businesses to recruit for them, they are forcing businesses to pay for them, they\u2019re forcing businesses to let them come and go as they like, and we now also have businesses being required to pay for partial strike action. So let\u2019s be really clear about this. Under the heading of \u201CIndustrial action\u201D, a workforce that\u2019s not happy with their union negotiated terms and decide they want more can say, \u201CI\u2019m going to only work part of the day, and you have to pay me for all of it.\u201D\u2014not you, Mr Assistant Speaker; the business. The workforce is entitled to not do their full job. [Interruption] And, look, they\u2019re clapping. They think that\u2019s great. The Government thinks that it\u2019s great that workers shouldn\u2019t have to do their job but they should still get paid for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EBusinesses won\u2019t invest under these circumstances. Jobs don\u2019t just exist. Jobs exist because businesses and New Zealanders work hard, they take a chance, and they invest. When you force those businesses to pay for the unions, to recruit for the unions, to give the reunions free reign to their premises, and then the unions decide, without even including the business necessarily, what the terms are, why would business in this country grow? They won\u2019t. This is a framework that will cost New Zealand jobs. It will harm New Zealand workers, and we oppose it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u002205715966ffa241c7b49e5db113874def\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205715966ffa241c7b49e5db113874def\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Kia ora t\u0101tou. Ng\u0101 mihi o Te Tau Hou ki a koutou. Wishing you all a happy New Year. What a shocking contribution from that member, Amy Adams. It reminded me\u2014and I need to remind National Party members\u2014of their shocking history in terms of workers and industrial legislation. Who will ever forget the infamous Employment Contracts Act, which that lot over there would have been celebrating? A disgraceful, disgusting Act that discriminated against workers, Pacific Islanders, M\u0101ori\u2014yes, and you\u2019re not looking, are you? They\u2019re not looking, because they are hanging their heads in shame. It was the most shameful Act in the history of industrial legislation. [Interruption] Yes, it was, Mr Goldsmith. [Interruption] Yes, it was\u2014yes it was. So the essence of the Act and their history, which Amy Adams talked about, is \u201CWorkers can do it on their own.\u201D This is what she talked about: labour market flexibility. And you know what that means? It means you, Mr Goldsmith, he\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b87168231b8f48098b6fe22e61fa1721\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Don\u2019t bring me into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ebe3817b07d45cba0158d49d92d2b59\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, sorry. My apologies, Mr Assistant Speaker. My apologies. That meant that in the workplace\u2014this is the essence of what they did to us in the 1990s. I know first-hand because I was a union official fighting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7e6a6b0e43b4f7fa971809a182cc0c2\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Can we talk about the current bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fbd14ef2d00486a99cc91ae5e0897a1\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, this is all about the current bill. You know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddd3a3ec5d744cd599e5834f9f21822e\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it would be good if you would.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f091d9ea58e434aa6ae1d509e077ea5\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on, Mr Joyce. This is all about the current bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292651be8f7094b01999abf8f9713cb7e\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bc03d22e6f249ab8e39097ffb57202c\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yes it is, because this is where it came from\u2014this is where it came from. And you don\u2019t want to talk about it because you\u2019re a part of it. You were one\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbd3cd57af064fd489794bb67167ad04\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will not bring the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f56aaa6b5b5c4467b8287b8e3b0915be\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yes, I keep slipping up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212f01bc7eaff44f2b3d653640bda8883\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: It would be helpful if the member spoke to the Chair, and then you would avoid that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022027e351190104980bf1be0ebaa8f6c11\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m talking about this today because it\u2019s important to talk about the history. I came into this House because of that lot on the other side representing workers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba6724b9bf4046a8b5ed3b7dff941f33\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Which time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022697922e721964209a1103b0e75252421\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: 1999. And we drove their dirty, filthy Employment Contracts Act out of existence\u2014out of existence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b69b23d70834d0b93e5da1d15fc9536\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The member needs to come to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8ccacd1b35945ecaf5c513284dcfb59\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: But, Mr Assistant Speaker, I\u2019m coming to this bill. This is where it all came from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b871b744621840179a349786d008a64a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I will\u2014[Interruption] Order! We are 2\u00BD minutes into the member\u2019s speech and the member needs to speak to the bill, not his history of coming to Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229afed10404d143a39e4f7e787766812e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: With respect, there\u2019s a background\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022258f92a1ffd949c2b163d3265b2225fc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I hope the member is not going to question my ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022440cafbb0b7440ef907a3cd418e431f2\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275758ee902c4409a96654e2909c2b6cb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221edc8ccc13d54dc58335a65d0c5cee3b\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not like some of the people on the other side. I never would do that. But it\u2019s important because some of the history here is being repeated\u2014it\u2019s being repeated\u2014and we heard that in the member Amy Adams\u2019 speech today when she talked about labour market flexibility and she talked about employer rights. She\u2019s not talking about union rights, and that\u2019s the essence of this bill. We\u2019re talking about an amendment bill that confirms workers\u2019 rights, that confirms union rights. That\u2019s what this bill is all about, and the National Party are not interested and don\u2019t want to know about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI\u2019m saddened when I hear this nonsense about how dare we stand up for workers. That\u2019s what the National Party is saying. So I want to commend our Minister, Iain Lees-Galloway, for his courage in bringing this to the House, because we got it right a few years ago. National get in, and then they stuff it all up. And it\u2019s all about taking workers backwards, back into history\u2014\u201CNever mind the meal breaks. Let\u2019s get a 90-day trial in.\u201D This 90-day trial is perfect. It\u2019s perfect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EEmployers\u2014if they don\u2019t want to work with it, what are they doing in business, you\u2019ve got to ask yourselves. See, most of them on the other side wouldn\u2019t know, because they haven\u2019t been employers. No, they\u2019ve been here. They have no background\u2014no history. I had an employment force of over a hundred, and did I use the 90-day trial? Very rarely\u2014very rarely. In fact, I had to argue against my own managers in terms of it, because I thought it was a piece of legislation that acted against workers\u2019 interests. They should be able to go to a job\u2014a big job\u2014and have some security. That\u2019s what the 90 days is all about\u2014to have some security\u2014because if they don\u2019t get that security, at the end of 90 days one of Mr Goldsmith\u2019s friends would say, \u201CSee you later. Away you go.\u201D That\u2019s what they do, because it\u2019s all about productivity, isn\u2019t it, Mr Goldsmith? It\u2019s all about productivity\u2014\u201CMove on, and get out.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo I think that we\u2019ve got the right balance in terms of the 90 days. We look after the small employer\u2014unlike the other side\u2014and I think, in terms of bigger employers, they must face and look after the obligations they have. So, again, I think we\u2019re on the right track. We\u2019re trying to correct the mistakes of the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221592a22fdce940c5ab70fc3c981f89c7\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: The member has no idea what he\u2019s talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022697ccfa9aef24caf955828b50dc761a0\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m coming to the speech now. So in terms of the bill, it has a much more balanced focus, and I just want to briefly address some of the elements in the bill. I support\u2014[Interruption] Look, I got a bit worked up when I heard that sort of nonsense from one of your senior members. I mean, it was shocking really. I know she\u2019s a contender for leadership, unlike some of the members on that side, but there was no need for that sort of abuse against some of our union members and workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBut some of the areas that the Minister has talked about I think that are important are the collaborative effort of the Government parties who have worked closely to develop the proposals, particularly the 90-day trial period, the fairer share of the growth in the economy, the better rate for workers\u2014which wouldn\u2019t concern the other side\u2014better union-employer relationships from which a better work environment and more productive outcomes are achieved, and, of course, we\u2019re making serious progress towards honouring the Government\u2019s election promise to lift the minimum wage to $20 by 2021.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also breathing real life into the equal pay for work of equal value kaupapa\u2014an initiative that I worked on in the mid to late 1980s with the Northern Clerical Workers Union\u2014and this key area of tackling worker exploitation is very important. I know that the National Party always say, \u201CGive us an example.\u201D, but when we invite them to come out with us, they never come. We\u2019ve done that through the years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EAs well as that, we\u2019ve got the introduction of the fair pay agreements, and the list goes on. So I salute our Minister in terms of what he\u2019s trying to do, and I think the balance is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn terms of the meal breaks\u2014I mean, these are considered fundamental to ensuring a workforce is properly revitalised, energised, and fully productive. It is beyond me why and how the previous Government could legislate against a fundamental right like that in terms of meal breaks. It just seems like everything\u2019s on the table when it comes to workers\u2019 rights. When it comes to fair pay in terms of workers, everything seems on the table from the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWhat upsets me\u2014and it really was exemplified in Amy Adams\u2019 speech today, her k\u014Drero today\u2014was that she\u2019s so shocked and National are so shocked and horrified that we would dare stand up for workers and unions in this country. What\u2019s actually wrong with that? What is the problem? We stand here proudly in support of workers and unions in this country. As the Minister of Employment, I am proud to stand by them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EDo we support business? Of course we support business. Businesses are not going to collapse, as in the dire predictions from the other side. We heard them in 2000, when we changed the dirty, rotten, filthy Employment Contracts Act. We heard all the predictions of \u201COh, the workforce is going to cave in.\u201D Nothing changed. In fact, things flourished between 1999 and 2008, and between 2008 and 2017 things went backwards in the workplace. Things went backwards in the workplace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo I just think this is such an opportunity to rectify things. It is amending all the mistakes and nonsense that were put out by the previous Government, who are on record, really\u2014we heard it again today from Amy Adams\u2014in terms of, basically, saying \u201CWho cares what workers want? Who cares what the workforce wants? It\u2019s all about our mates\u2014Mr Goldsmith\u2019s mates out in Epsom and around Auckland. It\u2019s not about your average, ordinary Kiwi.\u201D I say today, shame on you, Mr Goldsmith, shame on the National Party, and we\u2019re going to fix your mess. Kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u002291b3b74302b046349b14a6fa1215742f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291b3b74302b046349b14a6fa1215742f\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that was an interesting contribution from Minister Willie Jackson, where it was not only a history lesson, in fact, for much of the first half of the speech, it has to be said\u2014I think it is now dealing with issues that are 27 years ago, which is about as current as Willie is\u2014but it was also a history lesson in attitudes. It\u2019s ironic that the party that spent so much time discussing the future of work is now spending so much time on the history of work, when, actually, the world has changed. The current Minister of Finance, who was the former shepherd of the Future of Work Commission, professed that he understood that, but this bill has absolutely no understanding of how work has changed, how people approach workplaces in the 21st century, and it just goes to show, actually, because it can\u2019t even divorce workers from unions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EUnions now literally have just 10 percent of private sector workers, and yet all we hear about\u2014all we hear about\u2014from this Government in regards to this bill is unions. Well, actually, 90 percent of workers don\u2019t belong to unions any more. Let\u2019s talk about those people for a minute. Let\u2019s talk about those people, and let\u2019s talk about the New Zealand economy and how it\u2019s been helping workers. Over the last two years, 245,000 more people have got jobs in this country. That\u2019s an average of 10,000 new jobs a month. We\u2019ve never had a job creation streak like this. And, we now have, as further evidence of that job creation streak, the highest proportion of adults in New Zealand in work today, or at least in the last household labour force survey\u2014we\u2019ll see in the next one. But it is the highest ever. More people have the opportunity to work and be paid than they have ever had before, as a proportion of the adult population in this country. On top of that, we have the third-highest rate of adult employment in the developed world. Think about that: the third highest in the whole of the developed world\u2014in all those OECD countries, the third-highest rate of employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003ESo, with the greatest respect for the incoming Government, there is a high bar for change. Now they, rightly, will talk about wages, because that\u2019s an important part of the story as well. Wages have been rising at twice the rate of inflation in this country over the last several years. Everybody wants wages to go higher\u2014everybody. That\u2019s important. We want to see New Zealanders become wealthier and more prosperous, and it\u2019s been proceeding under the current employment relations settings better than it has for years\u2014better than it has for years. So, we have the highest rate of employment, we have the highest rate of job creation, we have the highest rate of wage growth, we have some of the best-performing statistics of our labour market in the developed world. That sets a very high bar for change\u2014a very high bar for change, indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s now look at what those changes mean. The first change is to take something that New Zealand small and medium sized businesses are using to give new workers, workers on the edge of the labour market, workers who\u2019ve been unemployed for a significant period of time\u2014giving them the opportunity to take on those people and lowering the risk a little for them and for those people, and giving them access into a job for the first time, with these 90-day trial periods. And it\u2019s working. I\u2019ve read that Motu report, and with the greatest respect to the people at Motu, the problem is they didn\u2019t talk to the employers about how important it was for them. If you talk to any small business, and medium-sized businesses, you\u2019ll find that most say to you that they\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022350d850c5e4f41cd9f56a9beca424e5d\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ll listen to the anecdotes but not the real research.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229917412352af488286a8310a3169d061\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s built on a false premise, Mr Lees-Galloway. It doesn\u2019t compare a counterfactual; in fact, it says it can\u2019t compare a counterfactual. That\u2019s the problem with the research. But anyway, the more important story is these small and medium sized businesses. And the bit I don\u2019t understand, which I hope a Government speaker is now going to explain\u2014and perhaps the New Zealand First speaker might be able to that for us\u2014is how to make a distinction between 20 employees or more, and 20 employees and less. If 90-day trials work, they work. If they don\u2019t work, they don\u2019t work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022450b7349154749c29ca90da28f78e408\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: You did it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f20fec31aa564eda92d0b79405ce4723\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got to actually land on it\u2014and to walk away, as Mr Lees-Galloway said, and say \u201CEmployers of over 20 people: you\u2019ll be fine because you\u2019re a big company.\u201D Well, with the greatest respect, companies with 20 staff are not big companies. Companies with 20 staff are generally under massive pressure. You\u2019ll generally find that those\u2014you know, they\u2019ve got lots of work to do, they want to bring on more people, they don\u2019t have the systems of a really big corporate; they just want to hire somebody and give somebody a chance and see if it works out so they can be added to the team. And it\u2019s been so successful in bringing people from the margins of the labour market into the labour market. And we know, because we have the highest rate of employment that New Zealand has ever had. So it\u2019s working. And the test is on the Government to prove that it needs to change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThen we have the rather interesting set of, shall we put it politely and say \u201Cinitiatives\u201D, for the union officials who support, of course, and campaign for the Labour Party. This could perhaps be charitably described as some sort of quid pro quo for their help with the election campaign. These are a grab bag of 10 things that shift the balance in favour of union officials. Not workers\u2014nothing to do with workers; it\u2019s about union officials. Remembering that only 10 percent of private sector employees now choose to belong to a union, the bar is high for saying to those people\u2014the other 90 percent\u2014that you must now be linked in to the union, as these changes do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThen we have, with the greatest respect, the misleading suggestion about meal breaks. The law was changed to allow meal-break timing to be negotiated. That\u2019s what the change was, and it was in response to concerns in particular about air traffic controllers but also other industries. It was a simple change. It did not remove meal and rest breaks. It did not do that, and anybody who stands up in this House and says it did is simply being factually incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons this economy and this country have been going well and been delivering higher wages, more job opportunities, and growth is because we have all been working together. We haven\u2019t gone back to the old-style union tub-thumping approach that we have seen from Mr Jackson here in the House this afternoon, harking back to 1970s-style trade unionism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235e2a39c444c4c609be54f5260256589\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: 1990s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0410d97178e456c95d9a866614fde21\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No, 1970s\u2014which is now nearly 50 years out of date. We have got together and moved ahead because we have encouraged our small businesses\u2014and virtually all of New Zealand businesses are small on world standards\u2014to get out there, work with their people, take risks, and get ahead. And that has been successful for workers because of that information I provided. That has been very successful. And we know these businesses are worried. I hear it all the time, that this is one of the key things that is driving business confidence lower. We have improving international economic conditions. Our businesses should be as confident as, right now. They should be just absolutely going nuts with confidence, and yet their confidence is down dramatically. It is negative. And small-business confidence is the worst it\u2019s been since the height of the global financial crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EHow does that make sense? It can only be because of something that the Government is doing. And this is one of the things the Government is doing that is upsetting New Zealand businesses that are striving hard to succeed, striving hard to hire more people, pay more people, and make a success of life\u2014working in New Zealand. This bill is bad. There is a high bar. The Government must demonstrate why it should proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u002242f73eb890a14b4799b5b8ccf858e13e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242f73eb890a14b4799b5b8ccf858e13e\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I just want to start my contribution on behalf of New Zealand First by thanking the member across for having a very calm approach to this subject, Amy Adams for her passion, and, of course, Willie Jackson for his passion, but also for the work that\u2019s been done behind the scenes to get this bill into the House in 100 days. I think that\u2019s very, very commendable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s the first proof of how MMP can work very, very well for this country. When we first sat down and looked at some of the ideas that our coalition partners had, and discussed those, we realised that we needed to sit down and work through some of those differences. It is no surprise to everybody that New Zealand First did ensure that we kept the 90-day work trials for small and medium sized businesses. The question that the Hon Steven Joyce raised is, if we think that 90-day work trials actually work in some cases, why didn\u2019t we leave them in there in their entirety?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EHe mentioned the small to medium sized enterprises (SMEs). The SMEs are a measure that the National Government actually introduced\u2014small to medium sized businesses, with under 20 employees. You didn\u2019t give any clarity about whether they were going to be full-time equivalents (FTEs) or if they were just going to be employees in general. Maybe that is something that this new coalition Government can look at, moving through in the future. We certainly will ask this of submitters, as it goes through the select committee, to find out how practical and realistic that is. That is something that could be raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI want to also discuss and bring up the point that Amy Adams made about this compulsory opting-in for a month while a new employee gets their feet on the ground, gets their legs under the table, and understands what\u2019s happening. Well, I said the same thing to the National Party when they brought in compulsory opting-in to KiwiSaver. You had a month\u2019s trial and then you could decide yourself, as an employee, that this is either \u201Cgood for me\u201D or this is \u201Cnot good for me\u201D. If it\u2019s good, they stayed on and they contributed to the KiwiSaver programme, or they opted out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EMy point is that it gives people choices. They\u2019re not going to be disenfranchised in any way by being part of a union. In actual fact, they will get natural higher rates, through those unions. I myself, in my early years of working, when I was working in the apple pack-house and I was working in other areas, I joined the union for a short period of time, and then I realised, \u201CDo you know what? I can do this on my own.\u201D I negotiated my own individual employment agreements\u2014[Interruption] This is my point. Then I realised I had the strength of character and I could go and negotiate. But to actually have that option there, for workers to understand what the unions are offering and what I can go and get for myself, is giving them the flexibility and the job security, which is very important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ERaising wages in this country is something that I am proud of as a New Zealand First MP and that we negotiated hard for in this coalition agreement, to make sure that we work towards a living wage economy. When I spoke to the Deloitte\u2019s BusinessNZ seminar, and they did a survey after we announced the fact that we were promoting a living wage, and we would move there with tax incentives and packages for businesses, to ensure they could pay for it, it was very well-received. In fact, 91 percent of the people that did the survey also agreed that we need to work into a living wage. This coalition agreement, as quickly as practicably possible, is working towards that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EWe need to look at raising the bar, and I will tell you why. Raising the living wage\u2014which is not part of this bill, Madam Deputy Speaker, but just to give an oversight of what this will also add to\u2014will actually stop the brain drain of Kiwis going to Australia. Raising wages, which this bill does actually do, by these agreements that we have inside this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2b1bba1b8e84805bc10632b921417d0\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a long bow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022572dee6c2fdd475fb19caa16741e2585\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: It is a long bow. But it also will create higher productivity. This bill is designed to do that. We want to get better productivity. When we look around the world, in the OECD, New Zealand\u2019s productivity is one of the lowest of First World countries. I want to acknowledge the fact that when the Hon Steven Joyce mentions the fact that we\u2019ve got the third-highest rate of employment\u2014the third-highest rate of employment\u2014again, I get back to the standard. The previous Government encapsulated that data by saying, \u201CIf you work one hour a week\u201D\u2014just one hour a week\u2014\u201Cyou\u2019re deemed to be employed.\u201D And yet, when I go and test that theory in the real world, \u201Cemployment\u201D, to anybody that understands it, means that you can look after yourself sufficiently and you don\u2019t need to be beholden to the Government or the State to top you up with a supplement or a boost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve actually got a false data collection when we say we have the third-highest employment rate in the world. In actual fact, because we capture anybody that\u2019s got a job for an hour or more, that\u2019s not real employment because, guess what? Taxpayers are paying for that top-up. We have got a State-dependent country at the moment. There\u2019s a lot of people, even those that are employed, that need extra help and support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EMoving ourselves up by using all mechanisms that we possibly can, including the unions and what they add, will help New Zealand and New Zealanders stand on their own two feet. It\u2019s going to give more PAYE and GST to the Government, to get back to core business. It\u2019s going to make more cash available, more money in more people\u2019s pockets, so businesses will be richer. There will be more profitability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ESo this doom and gloom of how bad this bill is, we say goes against what we are hearing in businesses. In actual fact, I\u2019ve got some remarks. Hospitality New Zealand commends the fact that New Zealand First has negotiated the 90-day work trials remaining. That\u2019s important. It\u2019s huge for people in business. We\u2019ve got here Tenby Powell, the founder of the SME Business Network, which has more than 11,000 members. He\u2019s also welcomed the decision. He says here, \u201CWe are thrilled that the Government have chosen to retain the 90-day trials period for small and medium sized businesses. It\u2019s a very pragmatic solution, in a tough employment environment.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ENow, even Minister Willie Jackson said he also employed people, and it was commendable to hear the fact that he had used 90-day trials in the past, as have I with my businesses. The vast majority of businesses do use them in the manner that they are designed to be there for, and it does give a little bit of certainty. We go back to a fair day\u2019s pay for a fair day\u2019s work. We\u2019ve got to get the right balance between employer and employee. This bill takes that step to ensure that that balance is there\u2014that the needs of the employer looking for skilled, dedicated, and flexible staff is at the absolute forefront of anybody employing anybody, and that the employee\u2019s needs of having job stability, safe working conditions, and good remuneration packages are part of that balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ESo New Zealand First is proud to be supporting this. The meal breaks that we are winding back the clock on\u2014when I first came into this House, this was one of the first pieces of legislation that came through. To me, the irony of that is that we were putting through the health and safety plan, which was all about ensuring that workers in their workplaces were going to be kept safe and sound, and yet part of that safety was ensuring in high-stress jobs, in dangerous jobs, that those workers could actually stop, rest, prepare themselves, have a meal break, and then continue on with their work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThere are exemptions in this bill that will actually allow certain businesses to have that flexibility for their workers. If there are other businesses not included, we\u2019d like to hear from them if they think they should have that flexibility, but we\u2019ve got to think of the safety of our workers. This ensures safety first, making sure that when people do go to work, they do come home safely at the end of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI understand what Amy Adams has spoken about, and I agree with her, to a degree, that that flexibility, in some cases, is very, very pragmatic. However, it\u2019s a little bit too prescriptive, and we can find workers being bullied into situations and forced out of their meal breaks, which is not the intention of what we were trying to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to just conclude by commending this bill through the House to select committee, where we will be paying very, very close attention to what the submissions are, and if we can improve this bill in any way, we will certainly have our eyes and ears wide open to that. But we\u2019d just like to say that those 90-day work trials are very, very pragmatic, and despite the fact that there are a very, very small number of businesses who abuse this regulation, we will be collecting data. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI have to say, we are not trying to hit with a hammer all businesses, but, unfortunately, the data had not been collected for the last nine years, and so we\u2019ve got a bit of work to do to find out specifically\u2014is it industry-focused, is it employer-focused, and which employees are actually getting caught up with these bad business practices? We certainly are very, very pro-business. They are the lifeblood of this country, as too are our workers. That fair pay for fair work is the balance that we are going to strike and that we have got with this bill, so we commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022 data-id=\u00228f4854dff9884389ae9ac0b8f2f2c814\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f4854dff9884389ae9ac0b8f2f2c814\u0022\u003ESARAH DOWIE (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will start with raising a comment that the previous speaker, Clayton Mitchell, made at the start of his speech commending the coalition Government for bringing this bill together within its 100-day plan. And, absolutely, they\u2019ve brought it together\u2014in haste. They\u2019re brought it together based on an ideological whim, and it\u2019s based on the 1970s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s based on the bad old days, where they are amending a set of tools in our industrial relations tool box that are pragmatic and have had the effect on the ground\u2014on the ground. I have heard from my constituents, because we\u2019re real MPs\u2014we go and we listen to businesses, we go and listen to employees. They are amending tools in the tool box that have had the effect of growing this economy and allowing businesses to take chances on people in a tight employment market, and growing job supply and allowing people to get ahead. I think that\u2019s pretty rich, from a coalition Government that say that they are the champions of the most vulnerable. Well, I say to them that if you cannot create jobs in New Zealand and enable people to have the skills to get into work, to earn some money, to feed themselves, to house themselves, to look after their family, then you cannot call yourselves champions at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EWhen we were in Government, we made pragmatic changes to our industrial relations law that created 245,000 jobs in the past two years, and part of that was the 90-day trial. I absolutely oppose the fact that this coalition Government is going to make amendments to the 90-day trial period. The reason for that is because we have such low unemployment in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from previous speakers on this side that the 90-day trial period is about giving young people a chance\u2014absolutely. Absolutely it is. When a young person enters the workforce, they are unproven. They need to be given the space and the time to prove themselves so that an employer can say, \u201CYes, I need this person, I want to take a chance on this person, let\u2019s give it a go.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EBut also, when you have an unemployment rate in New Zealand that is less than 5 percent, and, let me allude, down in Southland and Invercargill it\u2019s less than four percent, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel with regard to skills\u2014sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker\u2014and finding resource, which is the human beings that we need to work. Part of what employers do is they create attractive employment opportunities, and they give people who want to have a change in career a chance. The 90-day trial period is exactly what that is about\u2014so people that may be in one industry and have absolutely no experience in another can put together their CV, modify it so that they can highlight their transferable skills, and they get given a chance. And that\u2019s wonderful, because it means that they can be employed, be valued\u2014obviously, feel reward from their work\u2014earn money, and keep their family. That\u2019s what a fair society is about. But here we go, based on a whim, the coalition Government is starting to make these changes that are unproven and have absolutely no regard for small, medium, and large sized businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to talk about in this bill is the changes to the rest and meal breaks. I\u2019m going to highlight the problem with this with a story. In Invercargill, I know a young hairstylist, a very good young hairstylist that has won awards. She\u2019s very, very good\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c974065c52694561921a040d7ede1cd1\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Ria Bond?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022488f4886c5714db985a52d42ee0cd07d\u0022\u003ESARAH DOWIE\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not Ria Bond, unfortunately. It\u2019s another lady. She\u2019s won awards, and she took the chance to start her own business. I think that that is fantastic. She\u2019s very young, but she was exceptionally good\u2014and still is exceptionally good\u2014at her trade. She started this business. She\u2014let\u2019s face it, when you start your own business\u2014was working herself to the bone. Hairstyling\u2014look, I\u2019m not trained, but when you put a colour on\u2014I\u2019m going to break it down in very simple terms. When you put a colour on, you have to go away and leave it for a time, but when it\u2019s time to come off, it\u2019s time to come off. So you need flexibility\u2014sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker, again. The employer needs flexibility in the workplace to make sure that operations can run smoothly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EGetting back to the 90-day trial, she\u2019s taken on people on the floor\u2014young people\u2014to help her out. But, again, with those rest and meal breaks, she needs the flexibility to be able to say to the young person that\u2019s working, \u201CLook, you\u201D\u2014sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker, I\u2019ve done it again\u2014\u201CPlease, employee. You go and take the colour off. I\u2019ll take my break.\u201D She comes back, she does her work, and within that lull time the employee will go away and take her meal break. Now if that has to be structured, I\u2019m not sure how that\u2019s going to work when she\u2019s got more than one client in her chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288342b9a817b4beaa9115b2b1fafd7d5\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: People will end up with green hair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e69c3b031544ae680dfa6a5ee47be3d\u0022\u003ESARAH DOWIE\u003C/span\u003E: They will end up with green hair, Mr Smith. You joke, but that is a practical example as to how our changes, when the National Party was in Government, have helped business to innovate and be flexible and achieve. Because of that, she thought, \u201CRight, well, I\u2019ll give it a go. I\u2019ll start my business. I\u2019ll take on extra people, but I can modify my operations to make it work.\u201D So I think, in select committee, the coalition Government are going to find themselves held to account on several of these changes, because we know what business is saying, and we will test them as to what they think works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003ESome of the other changes\u2014I would like to talk about forcing businesses into contracts across an industry. Well, I can hear what the fishing industry are going to say about that straight away. I work quite closely with the fishing industry down in Southland. Given the size and shape of the fishing industry, yes, the fishing industry is very wide, but within that there is so much variation as to how the fishing industry operates. If collective bargaining and terms and conditions are forced on employer to employer and business to business\u2014whether it be small, large, or medium, or with respect to p\u0101ua or finfish fishing\u2014I can see what the answer is going to be with respect to my constituents. What they\u2019ll do is they\u2019ll go to ground. They\u2019ll shut down. They won\u2019t take that chance on that extra person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a226059b686a4a329c217729a777252c\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d5bab5dad004e66a450aa42ecec06b4\u0022\u003ESARAH DOWIE\u003C/span\u003E: Well they won\u2019t, Mr Nash\u2014they won\u2019t. They\u2019ll go to ground and they\u2019ll consolidate, and they\u2019ll make sure that the core functions\u2014if they can protect the core functions, they will protect the core functions. They won\u2019t focus on growing while this coalition Government is in power\u2014they won\u2019t focus on growing. They\u2019ll go to ground, Mr Nash. You know it too. I\u2019m looking into your eyes, Mr Nash, and I can see the doubt. I can see the doubt in your eyes\u2014absolutely, Mr Nash. They\u2019ll go to ground and they won\u2019t be taking on those extra people, and they won\u2019t be expanding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EWhat we will see is that this economy will go to rack and ruin. Jobs won\u2019t be created; jobs will be lost. Our families will not be able to get a job, they will not earn money, they will not be able to house themselves, and they will not be able to care for their family. And that, Mr Nash, is not a fair society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00228b1b5a77de244ce49d1e3b6d6b101330\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b1b5a77de244ce49d1e3b6d6b101330\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Deputy Speaker. It\u2019s a great pleasure for me to rise and offer the Green Party\u2019s support to this bill in its first reading. I do want to specifically congratulate the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety for getting such a substantive piece of legislation into this House, with a good deal of consideration in the process, within the first 100 days. This is an important signal to the country on where we are going and where our values lie, and I, for one, am incredibly proud to stand in support of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EFor too long, our laws and Government rhetoric have dehumanised people, trying to turn us, basically, into nice compliant cogs of industry. We have been told that we are employees and consumers\u2014hardly ever, citizens. Most New Zealanders that I know have at times shed blood, sweat, or tears for their jobs. Many of us spend a huge amount of our lives at work, and yet, despite this, working people are all too often described and treated as a cost to business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe relationship between employee and employer is not equal. An employee can\u2019t fire their boss, they can\u2019t cut or change their hours, and they can\u2019t send their employer into an unsafe situation. We\u2019ve been told for years now that we need to reduce costs for business, even up the playing field, and provide more balance in the employment relationship. The strange thing though about this is that almost all the changes we\u2019ve seen in this House have tipped the balance more in favour of employers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe change of direction has led us in recent years to a low-wage economy, too many workplace injuries, and burgeoning inequality. This was led by the employment reforms, and started by the employment reforms, of the 1980s and 1990s\u2014partially clawed back by the last Labour Government, but then, again, undermined by the last National Government\u2014and they\u2019ve created barriers to working people acting collectively to balance that power against their employers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard so much this evening that echoes the view, or that just reinforces, that the National Party sees workers working together as a problem. They see unions as a problem, and this was so clearly demonstrated in the laws they introduced to this House where National decided that a guarantee of tea breaks was an unnecessary privilege for workers. They decided that partial strikes, even to the point of wearing a badge, was too much power in the hands of working people, and that needed to be balanced by enabling employers to cut those workers\u2019 pay. National decided that union representatives having access to workplaces without an employer\u2019s permission was unfair to employers. Our poor, poor employers\u2014they\u2019ve been having such a hard time at the hands of these difficult, difficult workers! Surely, when we know that this is starting off as an uneven playing field, this perception is unbalanced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve been told that all these changes were necessary, that if workers waited we would ultimately benefit from those gains of business, and that those gains would be shared and we would all be better off. We\u2019ve been hearing that again and again throughout this debate, and yet what we have seen over the last nine years, particularly since the global financial crisis, is that what we knew was a pattern that when employment goes up, workers\u2019 wages also used to track up as well\u2014there was a connection between those two things. But that has been disconnected under the policies of the last Government and many, many working people are now struggling under working more hours but not getting the financial benefit out of it. While productivity has increased, their share of that profit has not been returned to them. It has gone to profit for the businesses, or the owners, or the shareholders, and not the people doing the work. This bill is the start of fixing that to make sure that the people who are actually creating the wealth get a share\u2014a fair share\u2014of that benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe know that we have a lot of work to do. I suspect that most New Zealanders will know that feeling of resignation, at best, or resentment\u2014not even at worst\u2014in the face of low wages, insecure hours, and stressful conditions. This has become the norm in our country. It shouldn\u2019t be, and it doesn\u2019t need to be. It\u2019s really hard to challenge these things on your own. It\u2019s been really hard, even for people in unions, to challenge these things under our current laws. It doesn\u2019t need to be that way. Our job in this House is to represent the best interests of all of our people, not a small, select, privileged group. That is why we need good employment laws that support workers and their unions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe National Party often tries to undermine unions, and, man, we have heard that tonight. They suggest that this side of the House\u2014I\u2019ve heard it particularly targeted at the Labour Party\u2014are just union lackeys. They keep on talking about referring back to the 1970s and how we\u2019re out of touch. But, really, their rhetoric just shows how out of touch they are. Even the International Monetary Fund, once the flag-waver of neo-liberalism, has now recognised that the decline in union power has been responsible for the increase in income inequality around the world\u2014even the IMF has recognised that. Their analysis found that the impact of declining unionisation is felt across the entire income spectrum. This is critical to this bill, which is about rebuilding the ability for unions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022830027fa2f734caf998afa9bed6b6ccd\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speak to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022516936b6a7e74f7481f01a363fe9fd5a\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to get access to workers and to be able to organise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022332cefea5185467cbf75dccfaafc7f2f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speak to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254ec373f922b4b669764b62fdfec92b3\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: This is the bill. It is core to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228d28e2e06d64dd0ba084ffbd058e68a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s nothing about the IMF in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217f01802fcb64d3ab5693ee27abcf21d\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: As the Minister introducing this bill said, there are two key areas this works on: one is about working standards, and the second point is about improving the ability for collective bargaining and union access. This is critical to this bill and the opposition that has been expressed against it. Their analysis found that loss of unionisation was a key contributor to the top income share, as well as loss of income in middle and lower income workers. Reducing their bargaining power and de-unionisation has necessarily increased the income share of corporate managers\u2019 pay and shareholders\u2019 return. That is something that almost every New Zealander recognises when we look at the television and we see the people around this. We see this inequality that has been created by the policies of the previous National Government, and that is why it is so great to stand in this House to be able to start unwinding that, to return the ability for workers to join together to create some sense of balance and collectivity and community in their workplaces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI do also want to challenge the idea that may be perceived by some that this is anti-business. I\u2019ve managed many workplaces and been responsible for staff, and when those workplaces\u2014and all of them have been, thankfully\u2014became unionised, I benefited. I found out problems before they became a problem for me. We created a positive culture in our workplace, and we ensured that everyone was able to have a say. Without a union supporting that, it doesn\u2019t happen, and we all suffer. Our workplaces suffer, our families suffer, and our society as a whole suffers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis bill is the very first step in turning that around and restoring our well-being and the fairness and community back to this country\u2014values the Green Party values highly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u002216917c783b924df19912c3155ed608b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216917c783b924df19912c3155ed608b3\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m very delighted to speak on this piece of legislation. Can I start at the outset by acknowledging that this is a very important piece of legislation for the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThis side of the House has launched a campaign called Protect NZ Jobs, and the reason for that is not that we don\u2019t care as much as the Government do about the rights of workers, but what we do understand is that when you get that balance wrong, if you lead to increased costs to businesses and you muck with the 90-day trial period\u2014when members do that with pieces of legislation, then jobs are lost. That is the reality. We live in a country where many small businesses are mums and dads working their butts off. They are not making huge amounts of money. So, from this side of the House, what we will be doing with this campaign is to make it clear to New Zealanders where the costs are and what will happen in terms of jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe other point that I want to make is that I do want to make the point that we need to be honest about what the Labour Party\u2019s intentions are here. I want to quote a Labour MP\u2014Madam Deputy Speaker, it\u2019s very difficult to hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022550727b6387447358f1e854ecd660cd8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would just ask\u2014all members are entitled to speak in this House, so interjections should be rare and reasonable\u2014and, to quote an earlier colleague, preferably witty\u2014but not a barrage. It is difficult for me even to hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c32e2b4b812f4d9ca709df553103c06e\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE\u003C/span\u003E: I want to quote Clare Curran, actually. Clare Curran\u2014and it is an important point. We are debating a piece of legislation that significantly increases the rights of unions, and I do believe that the Labour Party are conflicted. The reality is the Labour Party have a mechanism for their leadership for which unions have a percentage of the share of the vote, and this is what Clare Curran said about this. Clare Curran said a discussion was needed about unions and party members continuing to say who leads. The reality is there is a clear conflict there, and I think we need to put that on the table to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThey need to be aware of that, because this bill\u2014let\u2019s walk through. And, again, it is about a balance. Unions can do a great job, but when you look at this bill, the number of privileges\u2014the increased privileges\u2014to unions is very significant. I do want to list some of them: forcing businesses to accept multi-employer collective agreements, even when those businesses were not part of the negotiations; requiring businesses to sign up to collective agreements, even if they don\u2019t agree to them; forcing businesses to pay unions for representing workers who are not even members\u2014the list goes on. So I do want to raise that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe next point that I want to make is about young people. The reality is\u2014and I do want to acknowledge the Government. The Government has shifted around the 90-day trial period, and that is a very important point. What we know is that that 90-day trial period has led to some young people getting a job that wouldn\u2019t have been offered to them, because people have been prepared to take a punt on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWhat members on this side of the House will be asking at the select committee is why would you allow only small businesses, or why would members allow that only to small businesses, when it\u2019s working? It\u2019s created jobs. Solo mums, a number of people returning to the workforce, and a whole lot of young people have got jobs as a result of that. Why wouldn\u2019t we continue to keep that policy in place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe other point that I want to make here and now is that while we are debating this legislation, this is only part one, and we know on this side of the House\u2014and what we\u2019re concerned about is that we have a situation where we\u2019ve had 10,000 jobs created each month. We\u2019ve got ourselves out of a terrible situation around the global financial crisis. We\u2019re a national of small businesses. We\u2019ve got this legislation, we\u2019ve got changes to the minimum wage\u2014all of this adds significant cost and can lead to a loss of jobs. But this is only part one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWe know there is another agenda here. The Labour Party campaigned on that\u2014minimum redundancy protection, protection for dependent contractors, abolishing youth rates, reducing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214c9bc5e451346668478a9887cd12873\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speak to the bill. Speak to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292c3d498be4c424b8618d6c67a8e3287\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE\u003C/span\u003E: The point is that in a nation of small businesses, this matters. The choice for a mum and dad business to keep going can be the difference of a couple of hundred bucks a week\u2014or a policy like 90-day trials. And this is part one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWe are very concerned. That\u2019s why we are running a campaign to ensure that New Zealanders know that that side of the House are tipping the balance that will lead to a loss of jobs, that will lead to costs for businesses, and that will lead to some of our most vulnerable workers not getting the opportunities that they deserve. As I have already said, I think that New Zealanders do need to know. They do need to have absolute transparency about the conflicts of interest that exist on the other side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThis is not a level playing field. This is a situation where the other side of the House actually have union votes in terms of their leaders. We know that our existing Prime Minister was able to not go through that process because it was three months before an election process, but I think it is something on which we need to have a public discussion about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThis bill is totally loaded towards privileges for unions, and the reality is if you get that balance wrong, then jobs are lost and costs happen, and that is not about fairness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1dceb331d1847209e0039ea15d10a4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1dceb331d1847209e0039ea15d10a4c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next speaker, can I just draw the House\u2019s attention to Speakers\u2019 Rulings, on page 49. Now, I\u2019m not saying that the previous speaker broke those, but you do need to be aware of those Speakers\u2019 rulings when you\u2019re talking about the motives of a Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3c58b16c9d945baae1ff6dcaefa5373\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I was looking for those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022632535d284974423953f17da1721ba5f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Page 49.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022acf375bf2f2e414ea01ee33373873757\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acf375bf2f2e414ea01ee33373873757\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is with immense privilege that I stand here to take a call on the Employment Relations Amendment Bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c10a0be90de497690d39d684b17c424\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I do apologise to the member for interrupting her as she\u2019s getting under way, but could we just clarify that this is a split call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022654b5a715c5d46f29519edca2157ac4a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I beg your pardon. It is a split call. It\u2019s a five-minute call, with a bell at one minute, and a National call for the second five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f95c58362692409ba6aab15ddb356a0e\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK\u003C/span\u003E: In 2011, I was halfway through my employment law papers, and, at the same time, the then National Government introduced some changes to the Employment Relations Act. I remember at the time thinking they were a real attack on working people, and also, as a second-year law student, I felt that they were completely disregarding the object of that Act, which actually states that you should recognise and also address the imbalance in the employment relationship\u2014the power of it. So I never would have thought that six years later, I would be standing here talking about a bill that is going to make such a huge difference in the lives of working people, and not just working people but their families, their communities, their representatives, indeed, and their employers as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow I know there\u2019s been a lot of scaremongering going on about how these changes are going to take us back to the 1970s, but, actually, these changes are a sign of us being a very modern Government, because they will give us an opportunity to improve, modernise, and innovate the workplace. In effect, the good employers won\u2019t even notice any difference, because they are already doing all these things. They will actually find that these changes will benefit them, because what it will do is it\u2019ll make it much harder for bad employers to go into unfair competition. But the bad employers, the ones who have boosted their incomes and profits by raiding the pay packages of their workforce, they are the ones who are going to feel the impact of these changes. So this bill is the first step in righting a lot of these wrongs. This bill is about restoring some basic human rights of workers: the right to be treated fairly and with dignity and the right to feel respected and to be valued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EThe previous member had asked us about an example of the rest and meal breaks, saying that it was all made up, so I\u2019ve got a little example here that is factual\u2014you can check it. As soon as the changes to rest and meal breaks became law, instead of having two paid breaks in the morning and in the afternoon and an unpaid break in the middle of the day, production run times were increased. So there would be only one break\u2014one paid and one unpaid. This means longer hours on the production chain, standing on concrete in gumboots, doing repetitive and strenuous movements. These people I\u2019m talking about work either in freezing temperatures in the chillers or in extreme heat in the slaughter and boning rooms. They have their arms and hands above their heads for hours on end, and there\u2019s heavy lifting that takes its toll on longer runs. Toilet and water breaks are actively discouraged because it means stopping the chain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EThe outcome for these workers is fatigue and more injuries, and it gets worse as the day wears on because, with overuse of backs, shoulders, and wrists, and with fatigue, there\u2019s also an increased risk of knife wounds. This is an example of the meat industry, and the Talley\u2019s AFFCO workers are looking forward to rest and meal breaks being restored as soon as possible. There are plenty more where this came from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EA comment was also made the other day about it all being about jobs and that the first priority is just about having a job. How uninspiring\u2014having a job. Never mind what the pay and conditions are, don\u2019t worry about job security, minimum standards, health and safety\u2014working people should just be grateful they have a job. Well, some of them have more than a job. They have two or three, and that\u2019s because one job doesn\u2019t pay the bills. They are not choosing to take more than one job; they are doing it because they need to survive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s an E t\u016B member, and she\u2019s a cleaner. She works three shifts between 6 a.m. and 11 p.m. Her husband does the mid-afternoon and evening shift, and he\u2019s a security guard. They\u2019re both on the minimum wage. They work their butts off, and they still can\u2019t afford to pay for their family of two children. They can\u2019t even spend time with their family. So when you\u2019re talking about how it\u2019s all about this job creation and how wonderful it is that we have all these jobs, these are the people you\u2019re hurting. They\u2019re hard-working Kiwis\u2014people that can\u2019t get ahead. We have people that put their heart and soul into jobs looking after our most vulnerable in healthcare, in disability, and, after 19 or 20 years in their jobs, they\u2019re still on $17 an hour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, this is what this bill is addressing. Yes, our working people are not commodities. They are, first of all, people. They have human rights. They have lives outside work. This bill is a good start to changing that, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1c981654b2a4bcdb7836e04f6045b82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1c981654b2a4bcdb7836e04f6045b82\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I invite Marja Lubeck, the member who\u2019s just resumed her seat, to come to my city of Hamilton and come with me to visit a whole range of small businesses and light industry, and meet with people who are working in jobs in Hamilton. I think the thing that she will find that is most clear is that the vast majority of employers recognise that the greatest single resource they have is their staff, and they do their level best to look after them to ensure that they are valued, because they know that it is a huge cost to any company, to any business, when staff change. Therefore, to suggest that all employers\u2014as she seems to think\u2014are these appalling, Draconian characters who are determined to deprive the workers of their rights is just utterly fanciful. It is so divorced from reality. I can\u2019t believe we\u2019re still having to listen to that sort of argument in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EToday, we\u2019ve heard an extraordinary range of speeches. The Minister who introduced the bill gave a very sort of measured declamation, largely because he was able to read his speech, but, essentially, what he was saying was that this is a bill that reintroduces compulsory unionism by stealth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThat was followed by one of the finest speeches I\u2019ve ever heard in this House, and that was delivered by the Hon Amy Adams, who gave a very, very thorough analysis of some of the many deficiencies of this bill, including the fact that it will cost jobs, including the fact that it will increase cost and disruption within business. If it is now so appropriate\u2014and even Willie Jackson argued this\u2014to retain 90-day trial periods for small businesses, it is totally illogical to suggest that those who employ more than 20 staff should not have the same opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EShe made the point that the bill forces businesses to become union recruiters, and if I have time I\u2019ll return to that, but that very fine speech was followed by one of the most appalling speeches I\u2019ve ever heard in this House: the extraordinary, incoherent, totally contradictory, and largely irrelevant contribution of the man who calls himself the Minister of Employment. It was, as I say, one of the worst speeches I\u2019ve ever heard, and to show how appreciative I am, in one sense, of that, I ask the Labour Party to send a transcript of that speech, or maybe a video link, to every business, every employer, every small-business operator in this country, so that they can see what the Minister of Employment actually said, supposedly to justify this bill. He likes using the word \u201Cdisgrace\u201D a lot. Well, that speech was a disgrace. That contribution was utterly incoherent. Seldom has a Minister demonstrated greater ignorance of his portfolio than the Hon Willie Jackson did about half an hour ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWell, this bill is a recipe for a return to the regular industrial disruptions of the 1970s, which New Zealanders, overwhelmingly, don\u2019t want to revisit, and I am old enough to be able to remember just about every Christmas when, it seemed, right on Christmas Eve, the Cook Strait ferries were suddenly on strike and families who were looking forward to a holiday on the other island from that in which they lived suddenly couldn\u2019t travel because union power was asserted in a way that destroyed their holidays.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAnd I\u2019m sure some of us of a certain age all remember the M\u0101ngere Bridge and how long it took for construction of that particular major piece of infrastructure to be completed. Far longer than the time actually spent progressively working on building was it held up by disruption, and business productivity in this country was regularly negatively impacted by that sort of union activity. This bill will take us right back there. That is why it is so serious. That is why the National Party is petitioning for the protection of workers\u2019 rights, which, supposedly, members opposite care about but which, in fact, this bill will put at risk. It will damage productivity; it will damage the employer-employee relationships.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo while this may well be Labour Party payback for the great union support that they got at the election, it is unbelievably retrospective and negative, and it will cause major, major problems. I oppose it with every fibre of my being.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002245e96d7102cf45ddb5a514205633eca0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245e96d7102cf45ddb5a514205633eca0\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m so excited to support this with every fibre of my being. What a marvellous bill. This bill brings back fairness in the workplace. It brings back the fair go for the worker that that side of the House gives lip-service to whenever there\u2019s an election campaign but does absolutely nothing for when they\u2019re in Government\u2014in fact, they reversed the rights that workers have fought hard for over generations in this country. That side of the House is not interested in the low-income worker. They are not interested in people that are working 40, 50, 60 hours a week and struggling to make ends meet. All they\u2019re interested in is making sure that it is easy, at every single opportunity, to undermine workers\u2019 rights in this country, because that is not their interest. But I am proud to say that this is a Government for all of New Zealand, and that includes workers as well as small-business owners and those that employ people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI say that from some experience. I have been an employee. I have been a director of a company that hired hundreds of people in Wairarapa. I know both sides of the story, and, in fact, the business that I was a director for was in hospitality\u2014one of the industries that pays the lowest across the country. But I tell you what, in a small rural community, where small businesses often depend on people\u2019s capacity to spend\u2014when households have discretionary income, small business does well. How can you turn there and say to New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e9a90a485f74b88ba5fe522ad353b42\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hey!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235e9b300ebc049079056d3dcd27ee28f\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. I\u2019m still learning the rules, Madam Deputy Speaker. It\u2019s a bit of a shame; I was getting a bit wound up there, too. I apologise, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EHow can that side of the House say that they are the party of small business, when it is small businesses in towns like Waipukurau and Waipawa and Dannevirke and Masterton that are looking up and down their main street and seeing empty retail shops because people don\u2019t have the money to spend in their home towns because they\u2019re working hard every hour that they can and they are still struggling to feed their families. This is the result of nine years of a Government that has spent every time it can to undermine the rights of New Zealand workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWe have heard previous speakers. One that was the most notable, I think\u2014it was talking about the minimum wage, and the Hon Nikki Kaye was saying that the previous Government increased the minimum wage. This is a factual statement. But what is also true is that this is a case of something being a good idea when they come up with it and a bad idea when we come up with it. In the nine years that the Labour Party were in Government, every single time we proposed increasing the minimum wage, that side of the House argued against it. The point of this is that when they are in Opposition they speak for their mates, and when they are in Government they give workers lip-service, and we\u2019re seeing exactly the same thing here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWe heard arguments about the 90-day bill. We heard that this will hurt small business. I\u2019d propose that that side of the House haven\u2019t even read the bill. It\u2019s clear in this bill that there are provisions in this to look after small business. But the question I want to pose is that if we are moving, as we propose, from 90-day trials to making sure that businesses that employ people can do so on a probationary period on the basis that at the end of that period they need to provide a proper and decent reason for why they are not continuing that employment, what is wrong with that? What is wrong with treating people with dignity and respect and saying to them, \u201CLook, I\u2019m sorry. You weren\u2019t able to meet what we previously agreed. You are not suitable for this job, and this is the reason why we\u2019re not going to continue this employment.\u201D That option is still available to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EBut the option that is no longer available to them\u2014which most employers do not do but some do, and that is enough to make it wrong\u2014is they hire someone for 90 days and, for whatever reason, be it a whim or be it exploitation, they say, \u201CRight, you\u2019re down the road.\u201D If what that side of the House says is correct, which is that they want to see 90-day trials used to help young people get work experience and build confidence and have a chance and actually build and make something of their life, how on earth are they going to have confidence and learn something from an experience of working for an employer that exploited them, gave them no feedback, fired them for no decent reason, and kicked them down the road? Their arguments are not logical. They do not make sense. The fact is that they want to keep 90-day trials because the only thing that they want to preserve is some employers\u2019 rights to get rid of workers without fair reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard today from that side of the House about unions. They don\u2019t like talking about unions. They don\u2019t like what\u2019s in this bill that gives unions and workers the rights to collective bargaining, because they know that collective bargaining is the best way for workers to ensure that they get their fair share of production. It is not just us that are saying it. It is the likes of the IMF, an internationally renowned and recognised organisation that has reversed its previous position and is now saying that the only way for working people to have a fair go is to ensure they have the right to collective bargaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI want to pose a question to this House: why is it that the National Party hates workers\u2019 unions but loves Federated Farmers? Federated Farmers is a union. It is an organisation that represents its members, and that\u2019s what a union is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7b2b3682fea432dbdd8eccc20c80c67\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022418b8a6b18014a7ba8aaeb26c9e45c17\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve just heard the best contribution from the National Party to this debate all day. We\u2019ve had senior members, former Ministers, former Ministers of Finance, former Ministers of Education, former Ministers of Justice, and the Hon David Bennett from Hamilton has come up with the most logical thing they\u2019ve said, even if it didn\u2019t make sense: \u201CNo, it\u2019s not.\u201D I felt like I\u2019ve gone back to primary school. \u201CNo, it\u2019s not.\u201D\u2014yes, it is. The point is that Federated Farmers is an organisation whom I support and this Government supports because they are group that represents their members. We don\u2019t pick and choose. We don\u2019t get into Government and say, \u201CWe\u2019re going to support workers and trade unions, but we\u2019re going to put in measures to clamp down on lobby groups and other membership organisations like Federated Farmers.\u201D because we believe in the principle of people being able to get together collectively and lobby for their interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022383531e0f8f340368f336a0c7868ac10\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Freedom of association.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c16d03415b84ec487e8bb13442423b8\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Freedom of association. We don\u2019t pick and choose on this side of the House. I am looking at the member for National in Northland, the National member from Northland, a favourite on this side of the House, Matt King\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225742b4cfe37f47f69437277f7d16156c\u0022\u003EMatt King\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got my attention now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c432f22186d545918dec724e943f0f32\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes, yes\u2014who used to be a police detective and a member of the Police Association, a unionist, and there he is. He\u2019s very quiet, uncharacteristically quiet. Police know that it is in their interests to make sure that they have an association\u2014just like a trade union, just like Federated Farmers\u2014to ensure that their collective interests are advocated for, and yet here he is advocating against a bill that just wants to give other workers the rights that he enjoyed. You can\u2019t pick and choose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThis bill is designed to, and will, ensure that the workers of New Zealand will have a fair go and that small business and small employers of New Zealand will still reap the benefits of decent conditions and a productive workforce. Also, what this will ensure is that people know that we are working towards a principle, an egalitarian principle that this country was founded on, of a decent day\u2019s pay for a decent day\u2019s work. That is no longer the case now after nine years of the previous Government. But this Government, this Labour-led Government, is committed to reversing the damage that the National Party has done and to actually giving Kiwis a fair go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7b86299486445cd9dca16f8dfe32a59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7b86299486445cd9dca16f8dfe32a59\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Interesting to hear that contribution from the previous speaker, Kieran McAnulty, who waxed lyrical about the freedom of association and the freedom of expression and said that you can\u2019t pick and choose about your principles, and yet, a couple of days ago, voted for the waka-jumping legislation, which was the complete opposite. How can he stand up with any sense of dignity when he\u2019s so compromised and makes no sense? It\u2019s all part of what is a morally and intellectually incoherent Government that we\u2019re dealing with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EOne of the puzzles that we\u2019ve got at the moment is why business confidence should be falling at a time when the global economy is going strong and the New Zealand terms of trade are higher than they have been for a very long time. When the economy is booming and the prospects for New Zealand are great, why is business confidence falling? Well, I suppose you can find an explanation by watching the Minister of Employment\u2019s speech in this debate, where he waved his arms around and talked about the terrible history of the 1990s and said the essence of this bill was about union rights and this was all going to be the solution to our problems. You can understand why business confidence is falling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen we heard from Mr Jackson saying that\u2014he talked about the shocking history of the National Party in this area. Well, if the history that we\u2019ve seen for the last two years, where 245,000 new jobs have been created in this economy, is a shocking history, it\u2019s a shocking history that I\u2019m proud of, and it\u2019s one that\u2019s made a real difference to the lives of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe hear constantly this talk about treating workers with dignity and respect. Well, there\u2019s no greater dignity and respect to be gained than by getting a job, and that is what this economy has been delivering over the past few years\u2014245,000 new jobs, or more than 10,000 a month. We\u2019ve seen the average wage grow by $1,300 a year since 2008. It now sits at $60,000 a year. So we\u2019ve seen great wage growth, we\u2019ve seen a jobs boom, we\u2019ve seen wage growth, and we\u2019ve had the overall economy continuing to boom. So that\u2019s the shocking history of the National Party, and one that I\u2019m very proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhere do jobs get created? They get created by individuals and companies taking a risk and making an investment. You are either investing in hiring a new person, building a new plant, or starting a new business. It\u2019s all taking a risk and making an investment. They do that only if they have a level of confidence that that investment is going to pay off, and that\u2019s why it\u2019s so important to have a stable and predictable Government and one where people know where they stand. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve had for nine years in this country, and I do hope that it continues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI hope that the Minister responsible for this bill does genuinely listen to the submissions that come through the select committee process over the next few months. I hope he listens carefully and is willing to respond, as he has demonstrated, I guess, through the negotiations with New Zealand First about the 90-day trial and winding that back a fraction. I hope he will continue to listen. He referred to robust discussions, and my understanding is that they were more than robust\u2014they were ropey. But if he continues that process and listens to the submissions that we get, we might make some progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhat they don\u2019t seem to understand over there is the irony of the Minister of Employment coming out a couple of weeks ago about how he is going to spend $13 million by giving it to community groups in order to help some of the most marginal young people into work, and then, at the same time, this bill greatly weakens the 90-day trial period, which will make it more difficult for the most vulnerable people to get access to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9d06b724f5244fb961efa8e828e02e0\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t back that up. That\u2019s not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022758c8bf268724792b86b9ca909d69d73\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: That is the truth. It is pure common sense. If you are taking a risk and taking a gamble\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5c1b043867943f5b9f84e116c867773\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: You cannot back that up with any evidence at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f59ea5728484c438f6d4518393905d2\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, just look to human nature. If you\u2019re taking a risk or you\u2019re taking a gamble about whether to hire a new person and you\u2019re confronted with the possibility of hiring somebody who is unskilled, hasn\u2019t had any job experience, might have a few social issues, and hasn\u2019t got a great education, and you want to take that risk, would you be more likely to take that risk\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254ac28d0cd4f47d8a587d3cf5b93e6af\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I wouldn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ac39f2e03d9464b9480c4248c281425\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014if you had the opportunity of a 90-day trial? Well, I think the answer is obvious. Yes, you would be more likely to take that risk, and you are taking it away\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220762b3ee17744fa29f63edc5e7fc0e75\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225599e5bcc509483b817b40d53f24195d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014through this legislation. Quite right, Madam Deputy Speaker\u2014you are not taking it away. This Government is taking it away, and taking away the hopes and dreams of many young people to get into the workplace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe other thing that we need to bear in mind is that the continued progress that we\u2019ve had in this country, the strong economic growth that we\u2019ve had in this country, results only from New Zealand remaining internationally competitive. We live\u2014like it or not\u2014in a big, bad world out there that is highly competitive. New Zealand businesses compete in a highly competitive, fast-moving international context. We need to continue to improve our productivity, and we need to ensure that our businesses remain competitive. The only way to have sustainable increases in incomes over time, such as we\u2019ve seen over the past few years, is for businesses to be more productive. There\u2019s no magic to it. You can\u2019t just wave your wand and say, \u201CLegislate over the long term for higher wages.\u201D It has to be generated by a stronger economy. That comes from investment, and the investment comes from a confident business sector prepared to make that investment, and that is why there\u2019s such a concern that we\u2019re seeing a reduction in that investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, I want to refer to the comments made by this Government\u2019s own officials on this legislation. If we refer to the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) agency\u2019s assessment of some of the risks involved in this, what they tell us is that we may well see \u201Creduced employment due to changed incentives on employers to hire new workers\u201D. So that\u2019s interesting from the officials. That is one of the potential outcomes of this legislation\u2014reduced employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EA second potential outcome is \u201Can increase in industrial action and protracted bargaining due to the need to conclude agreements and include wages in collective agreements\u201D, and everybody in the country is well aware of the uptake of industrial action that we\u2019ve seen since the election\u2014the train strikes, the public transport strikes, which are dreadfully undermining the public\u2019s confidence in public transport. We\u2019ll see more of that to come, and I just hope that they will think very carefully about this bill and the impact that it will have on \u201Can increase in industrial\u201D\u2014I\u2019m just quoting here from the officials\u2019 report on what the potential outcomes are of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ll also see \u201Can increase in partial strikes as removing pay deductions for partial striking may remove the disincentive to take partial strike action\u201D. Well, again, that\u2019s pretty common sense. If you can go on a go-slow or not be around for half the day but you continue to be paid, well, it\u2019s very likely that we\u2019ll see more of that activity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen we see here that \u201Creinstating the right to prescribed meal and rest breaks could lower firm productivity by not accounting for the necessary flexibility to avoid business interruption.\u201D The previous Government had brought in some extra flexibility. We see here that \u201CThere could be safety risks for essential services if breaks [are not] mandated. Insufficient flexibility [will] produce significant non-compliance among employers.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo I think there\u2019s a lot for the select committee to consider. I\u2019m looking forward to hearing from submissions. I do hope the Minister and this Government will genuinely listen to not just their funders and friends within the union movement\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236901e7f26194c1f82a2e7589350bed5\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2bc02bae26a4415a951041cca44af4a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I can anticipate the point of order. I did refer members earlier to page 49 of Speakers\u2019 Rulings. You cannot imply that a Government is funded from an organisation that is influencing what they\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293535494ba7b423291b9b54c41d1d679\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I regret that implication. I will continue on by saying that I do hope that this Government and this Minister will listen carefully to a wide range of opinions and particularly take note of the views of those people\u2014the employers\u2014who are taking that risk and that gamble and that real chance when they invest in a new job. I hope that they will listen to the needs of them in terms of having some certainty around the industrial relations climate that we\u2019re inheriting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo we look forward to the discussion, but I am deeply concerned about many of the things that have been outlined by MBIE as they\u2019ve gone through the potential costs of this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u002273a321713f1f45b5974a29d371b12ca8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273a321713f1f45b5974a29d371b12ca8\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour): \u003C/span\u003EThank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Kia ora koutou to the House. I am absolutely delighted to be here speaking on the Employment Relations Amendment Bill this afternoon. I want to acknowledge the work that the Hon Iain Lees-Galloway has done in bringing this bill to the House in such a short time. We\u2019ve heard criticism of that short time here this afternoon, but this bill\u2014along with the work that our coalition parties did, and our New Zealand First and Greens have helped here with\u2014is a really, really strong piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI\u2019m excited because, today, we are taking steps to restore fairness and equity to the workplace. We are evening out the playing field in the workplace, because over the last few years that playing field became less and less even. Workers have struggled and found it hard in the last few years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve just heard about the 90-day trial period, and that has caused a great amount of controversy over its time. I\u2019ve just heard a whole lot of arguments about it. I want to acknowledge my colleague Kieran McAnulty when he pointed out that some of the members haven\u2019t even read what\u2019s in this bill when they\u2019re talking about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019ve just heard the previous member from the other side, the Hon Paul Goldsmith, talk about the hopes and dreams that the 90-day trials brought to these people. Oh! My mouth just dropped, because I\u2019m going to tell you about the hopes and dreams\u2014I wasn\u2019t going to tell this story, but I\u2019m so incensed that I\u2019m going to tell this story of the hopes and dreams that were dashed, under the 90-day trial, of one of my former pupils. The hopes and dreams of how he was employed in his very first job under the 90-day trial and, the last time I saw him, how excited he was that he was providing for his family in that job, and how excited he was that he was going forward in that job. On day 89, without any warning, he lost that job, and two weeks later, thinking he\u2019d brought shame to his own wh\u0101nau, he took his life. That\u2019s what the hopes and dreams of the 90-day trial period did for that particular pupil. So don\u2019t talk to me about hopes and dreams that that trial causes for our young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EAlso, I\u2019ve heard about statistics here this afternoon. I\u2019ve heard about 245,000 jobs created in the last two years. Statistics can tell a very skewed story when we hear them like that. Actually, let\u2019s take another statistic. Statistics New Zealand, in September last year, said that unemployment was slow to get to acceptable levels. In fact, we had slipped to 13th in the OECD. If we had 245,000 jobs, why was that the case? And what is the quality of those jobs? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EActually, I heard an invite by the Hon Tim Macindoe over there. I heard that invite for our member here to go to Hamilton. I would give you the same invite to come and visit some of the families\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270aa2d823b794b0e910ed4fd84409038\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would love to visit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022063b7c2d8b7c411eac2efb77c867521a\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I\u2019m sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker. It\u2019s just been part of it today\u2014sorry. I invite the Hon Tim Macindoe to come and visit some of the families that I have worked with over the past few years. Those families have got lower and lower quality of jobs in that time. Those families are taking more and more jobs on and working more and more hours at minimum wage levels, while costs are going up through the roof, just to survive. Come and visit those families. Come and talk to those families who are taking those jobs on and who never see their families. Mum and dad are team-tagging because they are having to take on so much work just to make ends meet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ECome and see those parents who are absolutely shattered after working those hours, who have not been allowed to have meal breaks. We\u2019ve heard about meal breaks here. We\u2019ve heard \u201COh, that was because of our airline people, our traffic controllers.\u201D But what it caused was that anyone could be put into a situation where meal breaks were taken from them. That is a right for most of us that we feel we need, but meal breaks were taken from these families. I have seen people absolutely shattered after working hours and hours and hours and not having a meal break in that time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ECome and see those people that have been told not to come back to work. In one case I had a parent asked not to come back to work the next day because they\u2019d asked about joining the union. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235de9516f8fa466683128d1601ca624b\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: All the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224deb477e4f0e4f69a928ef26dc725066\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: All the time, that is happening. So, this bill is a good-news story for families. Collective bargaining has the ability, and is the best mechanism, for increasing wages in this country\u2014increasing wages for our families so that they can be families again. This is what this bill will do, and it is good news for the children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EGood employees and good employers won\u2019t mind these changes. In fact, they will welcome them because they are already enacting this. When employers and employees are able to work together on equal terms and treat everyone with dignity and respect, everybody benefits. I\u2019ve been a union member for all of my working career, but I have also been an employer over that time too, and I encourage any of my employees to join the union. I am incredibly proud that I had a high union density. In fact, when I left that job, I had 100 percent union density in my staff. The unions are not scary. The unions make the workplace better. My workplace was better because of the strong union involvement in my workplace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EStrengthening union involvement and openness is crucial to achieving better conditions for workers in New Zealand. I have seen, multiple times, when we have brought unions in to support workers\u2014and I\u2019m going to tell a story. When I first went to my last school, I got a union member in to look at my teacher-aide wages because I felt they weren\u2019t on the right level. I had to pay $20,000 in back-pay in that time. That was the best amount of money I have ever spent, because I got that back in spades. Union involvement gives our workers what they deserve, and a good employer will buy into that. Even some of our most successful companies in this country are finding that having a better working relationship with unions is a strength to their company.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EWhat the other side of the House is thinking is going back in time. They talk about us going back in time. But they don\u2019t understand that that relationship has moved on plenty, over the years. The unions are a fantastic place to support our workers and also our employers. They want to see good working conditions. They want to see good employer-employee relationships.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThen I\u2019ve heard over there about collective bargaining. Another aspect that I\u2019ve been involved with over the years is that I\u2019ve been a member leader of collective bargaining for the last 10 years. Negotiating collective agreements is always going to be hard, no matter what Government you\u2019re working under. It\u2019s a hard time. Members\u2019 expectations are always going to be higher than what can be afforded to be given out. But it\u2019s important that we have an absolute strong commitment to continue on and find a way through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI think of my own situation. I was negotiating on behalf of the principals. If there was no duty to conclude\u2014and this would be the same for any workforce, but I\u2019m thinking in particular of the educators\u2014imagine the chaos that would occur, and that was the possibility. Before we bring this in, that is the possibility and the reality of what could happen now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThis bill strengthens so much for workers. It strengthens so much for workers. It makes our country a much more fair and much more equal place. On that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d935a42871b14d2bbe09df0d39a04044\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000569\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222011155c5961439ebab8afb442df8228\u0022\u003EEducation (Teaching Council of Aotearoa) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220ab0df1d4c13452789b02904648eab26\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000572\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 30 January.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002232d43837ad4e4f0aa675c6ca36475734\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232d43837ad4e4f0aa675c6ca36475734\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, when we were last debating this, Erica Stanford was speaking, and she has 5 minutes, 55 seconds remaining to speak. I take it, by the fact that she\u2019s not here, that she\u2019s not going to continue, so I call the last speaker, Jamie Strange.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022df55bf3363934e9dad35abd6ef4ac328\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df55bf3363934e9dad35abd6ef4ac328\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to take this call this afternoon. I\u2019m certainly honoured to talk on the Education (Teaching Council of Aotearoa) Amendment Bill. I would like to acknowledge the work that the Hon Chris Hipkins has done on this bill. He has listened to teachers over a number of years, and now that he is the Minister of Education, he is bringing in bills that show he has been listening to the profession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224924a2b2f7454fc6b4c8a6978c40f3bf\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: For teachers, not children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a592dc446b284a3290f5e40637654176\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: If you\u2019re speaking about children, the member for Pakuranga, have you left school yet? My wife and I have four children\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e995d14134e74ccbbcfe3a66c6f74157\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I\u2019d rather you just spoke about the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022408145e2bccf43c0a272d6006229d7c5\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. My wife and I have four children in the education sector\u2014three in primary and one in early childhood education (ECE). I want the best for my children and all students in this vitally important area. The benefits of education are wide reaching. It creates opportunity for people to succeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the Teaching Council is to ensure safe and high-quality leadership, teaching, and learning for children and young people in early childhood, primary, secondary, and senior secondary schools, in English medium and M\u0101ori medium settings. It stands to reason, therefore, that the governance of the council should be directly elected by, and representative of, the teaching profession, as well as having appointed lay representatives. The name should reflect the central role that teaching plays in quality education. This bill is about teachers having a voice in their council. We talk a lot in education about the student voice. We have student councils. In fact, I\u2019ve just completed a 20,000-word thesis on innovative learning environments. [Interruption] Thank you. I finally got there. A key aspect of innovative learning environments is students actively participating in their education. This bill is about the teaching professionals, whom we value, having a voice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard a number of points in this debate so far. So, number one, we heard from the opposite side of the House that there\u2019s been a lack of consultation on this bill. Well, I can assure those on the other side of the House that something happened back in September; it was called a general election. The teachers voted for change. I spent a lot of time in classrooms, and in every classroom I visited, the teachers were excited about the Labour Party policies, and they clearly voted for change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ENumber two, we\u2019ve heard about teacher morale being at an all-time low over the past nine years. I can attest to this. I was a school teacher at a local school, Berkley Normal Middle School in Hamilton, for six years. We were very fortunate to have our Hamilton East member come in and visit\u2014and I appreciate the Hon David Bennett visiting. I even let him play soccer once, didn\u2019t I, David\u2014although I\u2019m not sure he really helped the team. However, the Hon David Bennett\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecd0dfe406654e888f9d4d45d8af3598\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member, but, really\u2014I appreciate he\u2019s a new member. First of all, we use full names in the House. Second of all, it is the first reading and I really would like you to address the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227284ab856198496ab729aeeae3baf665\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies, Madam Deputy Speaker. So we would have National Party MPs come in, and they would say, \u201CWe value teachers. We listen to teachers.\u201D But they weren\u2019t listening on national standards, they weren\u2019t listening on class sizes, and they weren\u2019t listening on removing representation from the Teachers Council. The teachers wanted representation on the Teachers Council, quite clearly, and, for a lot of teachers, this legislation was a final nail in the coffin of not being listened to. But I can assure the House and those watching at home that this Government will listen to teachers, and this is one way that we\u2019re doing it, and I\u2019m proud of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThis bill is part of taking a step change to change the status of teaching. Our teachers do a wonderful job. They\u2019re incredibly hard-working; many of them work well into the night. In fact, when I was a teacher, most of my colleagues would come in on a Sunday. They work in the school holidays. They\u2019re incredibly hard-working, and we will value them by listening. Teachers are among the most trusted public servants, and this Government is passionate about rebuilding trust rather than having a low-trust model. I\u2019m not sure why the National Party hate teachers so much, but that\u2019s a question that will have to be asked. A number of professionals have the opportunity to have representation on their boards, including doctors, lawyers, and nurses. Real estate agents have representation on their board, but school teachers do not have representation on their board, and that\u2019s what this bill seeks to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve got a lot of friends who are real estate agents. I value them really highly, but surely teachers should be at least equal with real estate agents\u2014surely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220bbebd0a4e24bd79e81e025ca6728b1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How many? How many friends?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e985eee6e9a4bdd9ee98fd7fbe5d56c\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not counting our friends at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d054efd83801417791a2370171fa9145\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! There was some talk by a previous speaker, the Hon Tim Macindoe, around his pumpkin being destroyed. Some of you might have missed that story, but he raised\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb3bc0240cca45149230f881befb589a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t really want to hear it unless it\u2019s in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283bf048c22f747a19f4eb32271b6edf8\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s not exactly in the bill, but I was just referring to what he mentioned. I\u2019ll be very quick. I think the pumpkin is a good metaphor, because squashed pumpkins are what a lot of teachers have been feeling. But I\u2019ll move on\u2014I\u2019ll move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EAnother aspect of this bill, a key aspect\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d4e73a95864413289ea88a77991a996\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: No, I want to hear about Tim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253b6e4447b894f169dce1066c422f53f\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014ha!\u2014is around democracy. Sure, the point was raised early in this debate that some members on the Education Council were formerly teachers, and that is accurate. However, what we\u2019re talking about is\u2014we\u2019re talking about democracy. We\u2019re talking about giving teachers the opportunity to democratically elect representatives from their field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ed716f3c2154db59e0f0196edb3a3ea\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re compulsorily unionised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e971890cd1e4bf690420b7104a2de44\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure if Mr Bennett knows about democracy, but I\u2019m sure in his caucus he\u2019ll find out soon enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another key aspect I\u2019d like to raise in my last three minutes, and that\u2019s that this bill renames the Education Council the Teaching Council. People say, \u201CWell, what\u2019s in a name?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a491445909064d2199f3db2807fbbdca\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking about a pumpkin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c22da1560ea445c0846c7b888fb89e69\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: Ha! What\u2019s in a name? I should know. Jamie Ross Strange is a name that tends to stick in people\u2019s minds, for better or for worse, and, actually, I share two-thirds of my name with the member for Botany. I\u2019m sure he\u2019ll be honoured around that. But the key aspect here is that the word \u201Cteaching\u201D is going back into the teachers council, and that\u2019s what this bill does: it puts the word \u201Cteaching\u201D back in the title, and that\u2019s a very important aspect of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s the purpose of the Education Council, which will be called the Teaching Council? It supports the processes to make sure teachers meet and maintain the necessary standards\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289169b0633ce401882b2c44c318a92a5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Of pumpkins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247e65e8479264f15a6a543223e00fefb\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014needed to teach\u2014and grow pumpkins. Look, who knows best what teachers need? Who knows best what happens at the chalkface? Who knows? Teachers know\u2014absolutely. Who knows best how to make our education system work well for all New Zealand kids? Who knows best? Teachers know best, and that\u2019s why I\u2019m proud to say this Government will put teachers back on the Teaching Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re going to have diversity on the council. Some of the key areas where representatives will be chosen from include early childhood, the primary sector, and the secondary sector. We\u2019ll have a teacher in the field of ongoing teacher education\u2014professional development. We\u2019ll have a principal from the primary sector, a principal from the secondary sector, and a leader in the ECE area. [Interruption] Ha! I would particularly like to talk about the ECE aspect, because early childhood has been under siege for nine years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e8d6ae1289f4c37acd39f5f0640db3a\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What about a principal from a charter school? Where\u2019s the charter school principal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee7f5046148e472d9b08cd19faf2481b\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll talk about charter schools in a few months, Mr Bennett. I\u2019m sure you\u2019ll take a call on that one. I\u2019ll be looking forward to hearing it. But early childhood\u2014it\u2019s important our kids get the best start in life, and we will have representation from the early childhood sector on the Teaching Council. I\u2019m proud that that will be happening. We\u2019ll have a representative from the primary sector\u2014who have welcomed the removal of national standards unanimously, and we appreciate their support\u2014the secondary sector, and the other sectors I mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, this Government\u2019s vision is for the teaching profession to be of high quality, of high status, and respected. The key point here is that this Government will listen to teachers, and we are listening to teachers. Teachers have said they\u2019ve wanted this for a number of years, and the teachers finally have a Government who will listen to them. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224fbb7514fef54c5a9f3efc83b9a50924\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Education (Teaching Council of Aotearoa) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000606\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d09145142a914104af85c466e79907bf\u0022\u003EConservation (Infringement System) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a57e69fb221454a880d52beac9f1599\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u002233ded5e3d25f4e40aaeccbdd6da44e84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233ded5e3d25f4e40aaeccbdd6da44e84\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Minister for Women)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Conservation: I move, That the Conservation (Infringement System) Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Environment Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI move that the Conservation (Infringement System) Bill be read. The bill is a long overdue reform to conservation legislation, which had its beginnings back in 2002. It introduces an infringement system to better protect conservation values, while ensuring that people do not risk criminal convictions for simply committing minor offences. I acknowledge the former Ministers of Conservation and Justice and the former Attorney-General for their work on this bill, which was introduced under the previous Government. I hope National will continue to support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe bill does not change what is illegal. It provides another tool\u2014infringement notices\u2014for dealing with lesser offences under conservation legislation. Infringement notices will sit between formal warnings and prosecutions, and may be appropriate for many offences. The bill should make compliance and enforcement systems more efficient and effective because it gives the Department of Conservation (DOC) and council officers\u2014in relation to reserves\u2014this additional enforcement tool.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI, and I\u2019m sure other members of this House, want to see our national parks, public conservation lands, marine reserves, and indigenous plants and wildlife kept safe from illegal human activities, but I don\u2019t want to see people prosecuted and get a criminal conviction for a minor breech of the whitebaiting regulations or for dropping litter in a park. I also want a better deterrence tool to achieve protection for conservation than offenders simply receiving a formal warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe bill amends eight Acts, namely the Conservation Act 1987, the Marine Mammals Protection Act 1978, the Marine Reserves Act 1971, the National Parks Act 1980, the Reserves Act 1977, the Trade in Endangered Species Act 1989, the Wild Animal Control Act 1977, and the Wildlife Act 1953 by inserting a new part in each of those Acts with a new set of infringement offences that duplicate existing offences in conservation legislation. These new parts enable warranted DOC officers and local authority officials\u2014in relation to the reserves that councils administer\u2014to issue infringement notices for less serious breaches of the offence provisions. The recipient of such a notice would be liable to an infringement fee, rather than a court summons and a potential conviction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIn general, each offence in the current law\u2014fishing in a marine reserve, for example\u2014encompasses a wide range of offending. Somebody who fishes in a marine reserve inadvertently, and does not catch any fish or do any harm to the reserve, may well be suitable for an infringement notice. Conversely, someone who deliberately flouts the rules and poaches fish from it is likely to merit prosecution action. The bill will make the treatment of less serious offending under conservation legislation consistent with the approach to enforcement we already have under our fisheries, biosecurity, and resource management laws. It should also remove unnecessary costs to the court system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe bill also provides for DOC\u2019s warranted officers to require information in evidence, if needed, for a prosecution or an infringement notice, as currently there is no such power in the Conservation Act. This is an essential part for an effective infringement system, and is already present in other Acts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe bill has been drafted so that those committing serious offences, such as using a firearm in an unsafe way, obstructing enforcement officers, or causing significant harm to conservation values, would not be able to be given infringement notices and would be prosecuted. These offences were identified in consultation with the police and the Ministry of Justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBefore the bill is enacted, DOC will develop further procedures around the use of the compliance tools and how the infringement system will operate. These procedures will ensure that M\u0101ori customary rights are respected when doing enforcement work. The seriousness of offending criterion in the guidelines will recognise whether a particular species is a taonga species and the impact of the offending on w\u0101hi tapu or other sites significant to M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe intention is not that warranted DOC enforcement officers will issue tickets on the spot; rather, these warranted officers would collect information and pass it to a group of trained enforcement specialists, who would then decide how the alleged offence should be dealt with: no action, a warning letter, an infringement notice, or a formal prosecution. This approach is designed to ensure consistent treatment. The actual infringement fees will be set in regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EOne particular issue the Minister of Conservation would welcome public submissions on, and select committee consideration of, is whether Fish \u0026amp; Game councils should have access to the infringement notice system. The bill, as introduced, enables DOC to use infringement notices for managing the Taup\u014D sports fishery. It does not, however, currently provide for Fish \u0026amp; Game\u2014which is a non-governmental agency\u2014to use infringement notices to manage other sports fisheries, such as trout and salmon elsewhere in New Zealand, or game-bird hunting, which it is responsible for. Care is needed in giving non-government agencies the power to issue sanctions because, unless the infringement notice is challenged, the courts do not sit between the enforcement agency and the offender to safeguard due process and provide a check on the exercise of power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe Minister has explored, with officials, some safeguards that could be used if Fish \u0026amp; Game councils were given the power to issue infringement notices. One option would be to give Fish \u0026amp; Game rangers only new powers to collect information from suspected offenders, to then pass on to DOC\u2019s enforcement team to decide whether a notice should be issued and to issue it. This would, however, place a cost on DOC to manage some fish and game enforcement work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe Minister would welcome public feedback and the select committee\u2019s consideration of the implications of this approach and whether there are other options for delivering a more effective and efficient system for fish and game management, while ensuring the interests of the public are protected. So rather than proposing a specific solution to Parliament in a Supplementary Order Paper, the Minister of Conservation will be asking the select committee to consider the issue and then provide either an amended bill for Parliament to consider or a report setting out why no changes to the bill are needed in relation to fish and game.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI believe this bill will make the enforcement system for conservation legislation more effective and efficient, make better use of DOC\u2019s enforcement resources, and, by keeping less serious offences out of the courts, save court time and resources. I commend the Conservation (Infringement System) Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u00226bd20de581a54cf68d680bf13a211555\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bd20de581a54cf68d680bf13a211555\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is with great pleasure that I rise to speak at the first reading of the Conservation (Infringement System) Bill. Naturally, National supports this; it was our bill. The Department of Conservation (DOC) has wanted it for a number of years, and I would have to say, with my predecessor, the Hon Dr Nick Smith, and myself when I was the conservation Minister, that DOC were very persuasive and eloquent in outlining the advantages to its rangers to have an infringement system that didn\u2019t take up so much of their time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIn a nutshell, over the years, DOC rangers who want to be out there protecting nature, safeguarding nature and our environment, particularly across the public conservation lands, have had an inordinate amount of time spent chasing up people, and the infringement system, as outlined in this bill very comprehensively, and the regulatory impact statement as well, outlines how thoroughly DOC have thought this one through and how much time and effort it will remove for DOC rangers spending time on non-essentials and concentrating on their core business. So it\u2019s an excellent piece of work\u2014long overdue, as I said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think that this is a bill that will, by making the fines smaller\u2014because, of course, we have changed, in the last Government, the range of fines that have been available to use for DOC and for the Crown for really bad offences. The Wildlife (Powers) Amendment Act in 2017 was a case in point, and people in this House may recall the publicity around the jewelled geckos and people smuggling them out in their underpants, and so forth. The international market for some of our unique national taonga is such that they have been targeted. It was essential to up the ante and make New Zealand less of a soft target for these international poachers, and that\u2019s what we did and the fines were dramatically increased. We upgraded the language, as well, of the 1953 Wildlife Act to give the DOC rangers extra powers, which, again, they felt they needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWith due consideration to Fish \u0026amp; Game and other NGOs and other entities, the DOC rangers are public servants that have a duty to the public that is well understood and well enshrined, and it has been a very interesting exploration, with any of the infringement systems that we have changed and updated, to see how broadly we can allow those powers to be used by other individuals rather than just, for example, the DOC rangers. But there are some compelling cases, perhaps, that we can discuss and flesh out in select committee when it comes to this particular legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe proposed infringement system, as has been outlined by the previous speaker, Julie Anne Genter, will involve things like the minor breaches around fisheries regulations, camping in the wrong place, dogs being let off the lead in prohibited areas, and taking plants from our national parks. I\u2019m not minimising these offences, but on the scale of things, it is appropriate to use an infringement system rather than the more heavy-duty tools, which was really all that was available to DOC rangers until this piece of legislation was put forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIt is an omnibus. It does change eight pieces of legislation, were it to pass, and I believe it will pass. I think that the NGOs that have consistently assessed DOC\u2019s work assessed the need to protect our nature. The Environmental Defence Society and others have been carefully examining what powers DOC rangers should have, and I think it\u2019s fair to say there is widespread agreement for an infringement system that addresses the minor\u2014were time-consuming but should be less so\u2014offences, but in a way that makes people aware that if they transgress, they will be held to account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo I think that across the parties I\u2019d be surprised if there\u2019s anyone who\u2019s against this. I would be surprised if there was any real opposition from anyone, really, to this, because it is sensible and a long-overdue measure. I think that, in the same way that we have been updating across successive Governments the powers of DOC and its ability to do its job well and as efficiently as possible and concentrate on its core business, this is the kind of measure that fits very neatly into those updates and reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also very similar to what\u2019s already happening across fisheries, for example, with the Resource Management and Biosecurity Acts, transport legislation, and animal welfare legislation, as well as health and safety. So to be able to apply this as well to the conservation estate is eminently sensible. DOC deals with a wide range of offences and have trained rangers and grades of trained rangers that really will rise to the occasion with this, and it will make the big machine of DOC work that much more efficiently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EImplementing a fine system will create a very sensible middle ground to deal with making people aware that they\u2019ve had an offence but not making them criminals, and I think that\u2019s another distinction that is important, because people were fighting the fines and the other mechanisms that DOC had at its disposal as a tool. They were fighting them because they didn\u2019t want a criminal record. The stakes were high, but for an infringement system the tendency, I think, will be to admit the wrongdoing, to get on with putting it right if you\u2019re caught as an individual\u2014not, of course, Madam Deputy Speaker. But if people are caught, then they can just get on with it and not risk having a criminal conviction, which is a problem for a lot of people\u2014it has been in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe rangers will be freed up to work in the parks to do what they do so terrifically well. So I don\u2019t believe there\u2019s much need, really, to take up more of the House\u2019s time on this. It has been explained what the bill will do. The impact statements have been very carefully thought through. I think that this is a comprehensive omnibus bill that is long overdue, that is very much needed, and I think we should just get on with and send it through to the Environment Committee, where we will look forward to examining it in some detail. I\u2019m a member of that committee, and the chair and the rest of us will pay close attention to the submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EAs the person acting for the Minister from the Greens said a moment ago, the submissions are deliberately asking for people to talk about Fish \u0026amp; Game and the broadening out of these powers and whether others should be allowed to do it. That presents some gnarly questions, which are best teased out in the engine room of a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo I look forward to it coming before the Environment Committee in due course, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9d0f66df81e487498bca8b918b23f81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9d0f66df81e487498bca8b918b23f81\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I thank the Hon Maggie Barry and the prior Minister, the Hon Nick Smith, for the work that they did on this bill, and acknowledge the fact that this is a machinery of Government bill that is coming out of the machinery of Government as a consequence of your efforts, rather than ours. I thank you for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECan I also make a comment on the Environment Committee, which I\u2019ve had the pleasure of sitting on a number of occasions, and note that I think the Environment Committee is often one of the best-peopled committees in the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e73546438c954899883e090c91bfb1db\u0022\u003EFletcher Tabuteau\u003C/span\u003E: You would say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221acec3869343451499575b41272aebc8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s because of the importance that New Zealand attaches to it. I\u2019ve sat on a lot of select committees, and I\u2019ve always been impressed with the level of capability that sits on both sides of the fence, if you like, on the Environment Committee the whole time I\u2019ve been in Parliament, which started when I had a bit more hair, 15 years ago. So I\u2019m sure that this bill will be well considered\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8b11640f1fb422bb97fbfb0e33b3e64\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And it was a different colour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249d71e4b14554b50964ed80705fa7327\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014when it gets to select committee. And I have some suggestions\u2014I didn\u2019t hear that. What was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d033884a2cd644e99c6db2f474fc663e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As was mine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284fac5d393e844ea8908871cc5ac7364\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Oh, right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe key aspects of this bill have been addressed by prior speakers. I want to make a couple of comments about some aspects of it that I have personal experience in. I didn\u2019t do a lot of prosecutions as a lawyer, but my firm used to do a lot of work for what were acclimatisation societies, and then the Fish \u0026amp; Game councils, and I did prosecutions on a lot of these minor offences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI think one of the things that is mentioned here about both the complexity of process for the prosecutor and the difficulty of the process for the accused is actually right. The idea that someone who\u2019s charged with a minor offence, whether it\u2019s a camping offence or, you know, running a dog in an area that they shouldn\u2019t be in\u2014you know, I\u2019m not wanting to diminish the fact that these things ought not to do be done, but they ain\u2019t murder. And within each of those offence categories there will be a spectrum of activity, some of which should just have a warning, some of which should have a full prosecution\u2014and I\u2019ll come back to that with the trade and endangered species stuff\u2014and some of which should have an infringement note that sits in the middle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EFor just about all of the ones that I used to do for the Fish \u0026amp; Game Council, they should\u2019ve been an infringement notice\u2014fishing without a licence. Really, you know\u2014do we really want to force either the Fish \u0026amp; Game Council or the accused to go into a court process where someone ends up with a criminal conviction rather than paying a fine for an offence notice? Really? Really? Let\u2019s get a bit practical here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s the difference between this and the parking fines that are dealt out by district councils? What\u2019s the difference between this and the broader powers in respect of traffic infringements that used to be handed out by councils before all of those things were centralised to the Ministry of Transport and then, eventually, into the police? It\u2019s not so many years ago that there were a lot of other classifications of driving offences that were prosecuted by some councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAnd I think we\u2019re in danger of being too precious about some of these things if we say that there\u2019s some special status that relates to Crown employees in the Department of Conservation compared with trained employees of a statutory authority, Fish \u0026amp; Game\u2014because they are a statutory authority. No, they\u2019re not the Crown, but Parliament has decided that, in this area of governance, it\u2019s going to delegate, instead of to a council\u2014a regional council or a district council\u2014or instead of delegating it to the Department of Conservation, they\u2019re delegating that function to Fish \u0026amp; Game.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, are Fish \u0026amp; Game to be trusted in these areas? Well, they seem to have done all right in the prosecutions, in their exercise of prosecutorial discretions in the more serious route that they can already take, so why can\u2019t they be trusted in this? Is it because of this idea that, somehow, they\u2019ll be subject to judicial oversight, and without that judicial oversight, they\u2019ll be irresponsible? I think that is wrong. They haven\u2019t needed to have judicial oversight of some of their other functions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EYou know, their decisions as to whether they advocate for things before councils, which are probably\u2014you know, they have serious effect on public and private property rights. They do that, and they\u2019ve done it responsibly. In fact, I think it\u2019s probably true that an amazing proportion of New Zealand\u2019s river protection work that\u2019s been done in New Zealand actually hasn\u2019t been done by the Department of Conservation; it\u2019s more often been done by Fish \u0026amp; Game. That\u2019s true\u2014if you look at most of the conservation orders throughout the country, they\u2019ve been done by Fish \u0026amp; Game, and it\u2019s a minority of them that has been advanced by the Department of Conservation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c406059886084886a91d40692f2bb316\u0022\u003EHon Maggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Public accountability, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5b82e50458443f2acfda900d19ac129\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they do have public accountability: they\u2019re accountable through their Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere was, with respect, a ridiculous decision, I thought, that was taken by the last select committee when we were actually asked, in respect of their ability to seek information for a prosecution\u2014the pedantic advice that came from the Crown was that the Fish \u0026amp; Game Council could not be allowed to require the person to give their date of birth. They can require their name, they can require their address by law; they couldn\u2019t be required to give their date of birth. What a nonsense, because the prosecutorial guidelines that they have to meet when they file a prosecution include that they\u2019ve got to give the date of birth of the accused. It was absurd. It was absurd advice, and I was one of those who thought at select committee we should fix that, despite the officials\u2019 advice to the contrary. But that was nonsensical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe very things that are there for the prosecutorial guidelines that applied to them, including the date of birth, they couldn\u2019t gather, and that has practical consequences. John Smith sometimes lives in the same house as the father of John Smith, John Smith. So how do you distinguish between John Smith and John Smith both living at the same address if you cannot ask for their date of birth? So that\u2019s how pedantic these things have become in New Zealand, and I, personally, think that the select committee should look favourably at the idea that Fish \u0026amp; Game councils should have this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere are lots of Fish \u0026amp; Game Council employees out there. They are already paid for. There is no additional cost to the State or to Fish \u0026amp; Game. There\u2019s lots of these people. They have a training regime that was explained to the select committee last time, in respect of their exercise of discretion. There was one issue in respect of putting people at risk in respect of firearms offences, which I think the committee should look at. I wasn\u2019t sure about that one myself. I can understand that there might be concern about that, but I would\u2019ve thought that\u2019s an issue for Fish \u0026amp; Game to have a look at through their lens as an employer of these people, rather than for Parliament to say they should not have this this infringement offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo I think I\u2019ve probably covered the main points that I was going to make in respect of that. They are a statutory authority, they are fulfilling a statutory duty, and they have a jurisdiction in respect of things that, effectively, no one else is policing. So if they\u2019re not policing it in an effective way\u2014we all know that the court processes are hugely expensive, and we don\u2019t want to put unnecessary burdens on either prosecutor or accused in terms of the cost of those functions, and we don\u2019t want unnecessary stress to be faced with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EReturning to the discretion that\u2019s going to have to be exercised, assuming this legislation does eventually get approved by the select committee and Parliament\u2014and I think the former Minister, the Hon Maggie Barry, was right that this legislation is likely to pass through all stages, eventually, in this House and become law\u2014a discretion has to be made. It will have to be exercised by those that have these powers\u2014or they\u2019ll have more than one power; they\u2019ll have a power to decide whether they issue an infringement notice or whether they go down the more serious route. I certainly think that the department should be funded to take prosecutions, not just infringement notices, in serious cases. The law should be enforced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI know the last Minister, so I\u2019m not sure which Minister would have seen the cost of prosecutions of some of those people who were stealing our jewelled geckos\u2014you know, our rare and endangered species\u2014and smuggling them overseas, or birds eggs, or\u2014you know, there\u2019s some real ratbags out there in the world. Some of them have very, very low ethics, and they will come and they will threaten our endangered species, and when we catch them, I think the ministry should be sufficiently funded to actually throw the book at them, because I think it\u2019s abhorrent that they would be trading in New Zealand\u2019s endangered species. In terms of criminal offences, it is such a deliberate act. It\u2019s so planned, and we have threatened species. So, with those comments, I support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022f442ad9ea0a54c54a6cb41a7a01f94e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f442ad9ea0a54c54a6cb41a7a01f94e6\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I want to join with other members and endorse the Conservation (Infringement System) Bill that\u2019s being introduced with this first reading, and indicate National\u2019s strong support for it. It\u2019s a bill that was introduced by the former Minister, Maggie Barry. It\u2019s a bill that\u2019s going to end up with better conservation outcomes. It\u2019s a bill that\u2019s actually going to be more just for people that commit offences across the various conservation statutes. And, actually, it\u2019s a bill that\u2019s going to save the taxpayers money. So it ticks all three of those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut I can\u2019t help commenting that here we are in the middle of the first 100 days of the new Government and they\u2019re so bereft of new ideas and legislation that within that 100 days we\u2019re passing National Party bills. It just reinforces how ill-prepared the new Government was for taking up the role of office, and long may the new Government advance legislation that has been advanced by us. It\u2019s a reinforcement of how much was in the pipe from the previous Government and how vacant the new parties opposite\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f35f371598a4d42bad4399ddebe9f99\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The member has been speaking for almost 2 minutes, and we are yet to hear of the substantive matters addressed in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb1633f6a7a443698847fddabe0a55eb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Speaker is the judge of that. I appreciate the point and I\u2019ll ask the member to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a817fed918e14a74801abb87b6ac1058\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Members opposite are so sensitive on this point that in the first 100 days it\u2019s National legislation that they are putting through this House. Let me come to the issues of why it\u2019s good legislation that my colleague Maggie Barry has raised, and that is around the issue of the infringement offences. What we want is better conservation outcomes. Here\u2019s the dilemma: you\u2019re a Department of Conservation (DOC) official, you\u2019re out on the Marlborough Sounds\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022036784cce24a4d31a1f093c38518d0e9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not. Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c268201ad6d34cbd90995f55c91f407b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and the person is offending against the marine reserves law by fishing within it. And the choice is to either turn a blind eye, give the person a warning, or to spend more than $20,000 on a full court prosecution and give that person a criminal offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve had the facing of constituents who have committed, actually, in the big picture, relatively minor conservation offences\u2014you know, they\u2019ve had a dog in a reserve where they\u2019re not meant to, they\u2019ve assumed that they can have their 4-wheel drive vehicle in a particular area and haven\u2019t been able to, they\u2019ve misjudged the boundary of the marine reserve and next minute they\u2019ve got a criminal offence on their book that means that if they ever want to travel overseas, it\u2019s like they\u2019ve committed something really serious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo the concept in this bill of having infringement offences and instant fines, in my view, is going to result in better conservation outcomes. Why? Because the DOC official or the Fish \u0026amp; Game guy is going to say, when somebody has done something wrong, \u201CActually, you do deserve an instant fine.\u201D, but it actually is not good use of taxpayers\u2019 money. It\u2019s my prediction that there will be a lot more people that actually end up being prosecuted under these eight different conservation Acts than occurs currently. That means people think they\u2019ve got a better chance of being caught and being fined, and so it is my view that you\u2019ll get better conservation outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESecondly, it\u2019s my view that it will be more just. It will be more just, because, actually, if somebody\u2019s got a dog in a DOC reserve or a local government reserve that\u2019s inappropriate, it is actually unfair for them to go through the full expense of engaging a lawyer, where the penalty becomes out of scale with the level of the offence, simply because of the bureaucracy of having to go through a full court hearing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EAnd here\u2019s the other part: we as taxpayers spend a huge sum of money on our court systems. We all get frustrated as constituency MPs sometimes at the delays and the expense of that process. This bill eliminates that and that\u2019s why it\u2019s a good bill this House should support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201802011c5588753bb943e59b1c6700e5af45f8000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"