"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002206ea28a9feef4709ae6d0659be419ed0\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 10 APRIL 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224fa4dcde148a415093edc0c3436bdfe9\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 10 APRIL 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000004\u0022\u003EKarakia.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002241451a1407f6463391a7c68fdae0ee3a\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e347c291e1a943aa8d7588d781367ead\u0022\u003EUnited Kingdom\u2014House of Lords and House of Commons\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022d484e8c7e4694a06aec04bee3cac1d85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d484e8c7e4694a06aec04bee3cac1d85\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure that members would wish to welcome Rt Hon Lord Foulkes, Vice Chair of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association United Kingdom, and members of his delegation from the House of Lords and the House of Commons of the United Kingdom, who are present in the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002299d03b6c6a7e4d4cab643567feee21cc\u0022\u003ESwitzerland\u2014Swiss Council of States, Foreign Affairs Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a16a0b33e7ec4045bb56aa998b2580b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a16a0b33e7ec4045bb56aa998b2580b3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure that members would also wish to welcome Mr Filippo Lombardi and his delegation from the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Swiss Council of States, who are present in the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022491fba301cf848178724c2e60244b18e\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b94f711505984b748b99aa95240e1dc1\u0022\u003EWahine Disaster\u201450th Anniversary\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6887c0ab0324164b1463c359e928a19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6887c0ab0324164b1463c359e928a19\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without notice and without debate on the sinking of the Wahine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d85307d314f049af9f9377fc81ea07da\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that process? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022442db0d4b8d84a709ca791795008a3d6\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House note that today marks the 50th anniversary of the foundering at the entrance to Wellington Harbour of the interisland ferry Wahine with the loss of 53 lives, and that the House mark this solemn occasion with a moment\u2019s silence in their honour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EMembers stood as a mark of respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022662fecd9096d4f948aae99c172cb55f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022662fecd9096d4f948aae99c172cb55f5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a76981733de54882b7526b92c65ea7a8\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab4d668bb0cf411b8eb9c31b0c0d6a40\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002208842735ac1647d2b77bbafc05a7dae2\u0022\u003EPublic Services\u2014Investment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00223c250a5ef20740569375418916c4db65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c250a5ef20740569375418916c4db65\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Ka t\u016B a ia i runga i tana k\u014Drero m\u014D te iti rawa o te mahi haumi i roto ratonga t\u016Bmataiti, \u0101, n\u0101 runga i t\u0113r\u0101, \u201Cwe didn\u2019t know it would be this bad\u201D \u0101, m\u0113n\u0101 kua p\u0113nei rawa, ka p\u0113hea te nui o te iti rawa o te mahi haumi nei?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E[Does she stand by her statement on under-investment in public services that \u201Cwe didn\u2019t know it would be this bad\u201D, and if so, how significant is this under-investment?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00225208c25a0cea4a5ba894743d16b3396f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225208c25a0cea4a5ba894743d16b3396f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, absolutely, and much of that we could see from Opposition, as could New Zealanders in everyday life, as they saw individuals sleeping in cars or being unable to access health services. But what we are seeing now is in almost every portfolio I can find other signs of under-investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc150ba92bb847339033e41b892f4c7c\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that the state of the books she inherited from National represents a moral and fiscal deficit, which we see every day in our homeless and unemployed, in our impoverished families, and in our threatened species?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267ce31dbc3c946d1bf2043516f6ceff7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and being in Government obviously is about making choices and about priorities. The last Government decided that the priority, rather than investing in issues around unemployment and homelessness, was tax cuts\u2014a huge amount of which went to the top 10 percent of income earners. This Government has different priorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a32034b3c5ef4055849f26289b4a7509\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: How significant is the under-investment in health in light of revelations that there is sewage and mould running through the walls of Middlemore Hospital, as a direct result of it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202149078a0bb4ce294d234d841b4c4f6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I would say Middlemore Hospital is emblematic of a much wider problem. District health boards are telling us that 19 percent of their assets are either in a poor or a very poor state. If you add to that the fact that they\u2019re running what will be an estimated up to $200 million deficit, I think it\u2019s fair to say New Zealanders in every walk of life will be experiencing issues with their health services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c0a7d44a382492f84c455291a43a9a2\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Has there been significant under-investment in other areas of Government spending, and has that impacted on core services, as we have seen in our health system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb16936a2b924041897857fc6e1767f8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I say, health, I think, is emblematic of what\u2019s gone on in other areas. You\u2019ll hear today, for instance, the Minister of Education talking a little bit more about the under-investment in early childhood education, which, essentially, has meant that parents have been picking up the tab from a lack of investment from the last Government. I\u2019m happy to share the numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f109eef3977f4aee981453ba44841ba3\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: What plans does she have, if any, to restore investment in public services to urgently help those who are struggling the most, such as the 10 to 20 homeless people I spoke with who were sleeping outside the City Mission yesterday morning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efba750205fb4b01a135bf1299ac3872\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I say, we identified from Opposition that this was an issue. We made a very deliberate decision to cancel the tax cuts. The second decision that we made was to run a slightly longer debt track than the last Government, because we wanted to prioritise investing in housing and making sure that there wasn\u2019t the scale of homelessness we saw under the last Government. As I say, Government is all about priorities, and ours are very different to the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238b1105cd74740a49c5fe7d8e6f9509d\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government consider any new taxes in the future to help solve these problems, given that it has ruled out any new revenue streams this term?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022719c1baeb8cb4c7686bcdba0b74e713f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As we\u2019ve said, there will be no new tax regimes in this term of office, from this Government. Of course, we do have the Tax Working Group under way, but they may very well produce an outcome that could be fiscally neutral as well. Ultimately, we have budgeted and set out a debt track that allows us to make the investment that is the priority, and we did things like cancel tax cuts, so we could reinvest in health, education, and housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b26a21f08c649598ef69d0872211bd1\u0022\u003ETransport Infrastructure\u2014Fuel Taxes and Funding Priorities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1f448d1f5db4e77ab4d7aa912928e24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1f448d1f5db4e77ab4d7aa912928e24\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s policies and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00220ad0defd0d7e46068eae65c9aac9c717\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ad0defd0d7e46068eae65c9aac9c717\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, including the priorities we\u2019re placing around investing back in core services so we don\u2019t have situations like Middlemore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022172434f3008b438d9cf78782b51d8dbf\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You were very fast last week to prevent people from adding little bits to the end of a question. You made the point\u2014if you\u2019ve asked the question, that\u2019s it. What we just saw from the Prime Minister was something you pulled other Ministers up for last week, which was answering the question and then going on with a little bit more. So a little bit of consistency would be something that would be helpful to the order of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247b49103e3e84a98b6c57436d877373f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f40872ca69d74b668c982383b7f37825\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to ask the Prime Minister: is she really going to add to the order in the House, or is she going to cause a further problem?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eae6548b5354e209188d5d792706cbc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: It depends which way you\u2019re going to rule, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022660ba21d6d3a479ca013b01158dd4b8f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what I\u2019m going to ask is for the Hon Gerry Brownlee to be just a little bit more tolerant. That was a short answer with a very mild flick to an Opposition question, not a Government patsy. Therefore, I think it was well within the bounds of what all my predecessors would have accepted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022143d0c48e2e343419500bedcf4dabff1\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How will someone living and working in South Auckland benefit from the 25c a litre petrol tax for their petrol?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022491883c695f541ffb7f4dcb15b9df457\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m assuming that\u2019s a reference to the Government Policy Statement on Land Transport, which we\u2019re consulting on whether or not the investment we want to make off the back of 3c\u2014up to around 3c a year, something which I understand the Opposition has said that they would maintain. I\u2019m happy to speak to how they would benefit, because under this Government they\u2019re likely to be a family that, on average, would get $75 a week once our Working for Families changes come in in July.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a5381f78bd0411688fce372ae2d90f5\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that the majority of the upwards of 25c a litre tax increase over the next decade will go to the tram to Auckland Airport?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022905763160563429783668e8ac4556636\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said in this House previously, the kind of example that that member is using is a family who currently doesn\u2019t have choices around how they move around their city. We need to give them choices, and we also need to invest in that household as well. They need higher incomes, better wages, and they need decent transport. Under that Opposition, apparently they would keep that same excise that we\u2019re planning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efaee21aca1b4098aa02faadb9298ad2\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked a very clear question about whether the majority of that tax would go to the tram to Auckland Airport. She didn\u2019t even address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220c174851df2474887df430ac44352b3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m ruling she did. She certainly referred to giving Aucklanders choices as to their methods of moving around Auckland. I think that\u2019s close enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbe5432bc5e742b384168a7621ed926e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: So will the majority of that petrol tax over the next decade go to the tram to Auckland Airport?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e22191412db44ca0a360e7383d254065\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022625d648c587b4f708c4ec4c152bbd8fb\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that there\u2019s been a $5 billion transfer from roading to public transport, in particular trams, under that proposed Government policy statement (GPS)?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022057a014f2505427cb2229d6c5fe862f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not. As I\u2019ve pointed out in this House, we are increasing the amount of funding that is going into regional transport and also local transport and also transport safety. That\u2019s because that\u2019s what we\u2019ve prioritised, while at the same time having only an 11 percent decrease in State highway improvements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022374da91c40c140958a4c59c0d5c0e655\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How can she possibly say that, when her transport Minister, just last week, in this House, accepted that $5 billion is being reduced from State highway improvements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250debd9fa4584f389f5c5691faf16644\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Because we are also putting more back into regional and local roads. Would the member like me to reiterate the cuts that that last Government made to those very same transport areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022167cdb2eddc64ffeb87e5e203ab2e593\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Prime Minister, I think, knows that she shouldn\u2019t be asking questions of the Opposition. [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022969612e7b4094918bfb30743a5cb8db5\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What use is the tram to the airport to someone living and working nowhere near it in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022802348ba26ef45fd9bfc4265f069b767\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, that\u2019s taking a very narrow view of what is a comprehensive plan to improve public transport across the Auckland network. As I say, that is only part of what the GPS was about. It was also about making sure that we are increasing regional and local road improvements to the tune of $1.2 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edf44c2d8bcf4ec29eab3bf2a4a6ef5b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How will the several-billion-dollar City Rail Link be paid for, does she think?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022841db7d56bde48c88951a11c5b72b53f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m assuming he\u2019s talking about the City Rail Link which he was very late coming to the party to support. We continue to support it and did from the very beginning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241f202ae20b440b8bedb9c8c448b9a7e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked how it would be paid for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b2b997b514843fe9baf2aa818683a5f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will ask the Prime Minister to have another shot at that. How will it be paid for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edbc7935998d48ecb5e10c5a706b9a24\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I imagine in the same way that the last Government pretended they were going to pay for it as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3f82c07539b4b25b4a867d428ccdc9b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question number\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288b5b57d1e3e48319aa06739ffbb9d97\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228da0e88c581c420eaf48fc1d3543380c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014I apologise, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m still going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c63b4373245d4727adee16568112b280\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, the Hon Simon Bridges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae7f1415fd724727a14bf359ea51d30b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014I\u2019ve got further supplementaries. I\u2019m sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219913369c8534bdfbc86483775df16e9\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister believe that investing in a modern rapid transit system gives people transport choices enabling some people to leave their car at home during peak hour, thereby allowing the roads to move more freely for everybody else?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3d8388528fd4c1db256209cf5626694\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. That is our aspiration. Some will continue to choose to move by car, but currently they are losing in productivity because of the excessive congestion in Auckland. We need more transport options, and that\u2019s what this Government is focused on whilst also dealing with the regional neglect of the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db47be2b8db643f0b6e2352989c0182f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How will someone in Manurewa, in the North Shore, or in west Auckland be able to leave their car at home when they\u2019re definitely not getting any mass rapid transit any time in the next decade, and probably longer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e8425aff568410cb92d60c27abdd691\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: And we do have plans to extend the public transport network. The ability\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022990f4eb51dc04525928bc16ab2c0d35f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I\u2019m going to ask members of the Opposition just to settle down. I had some hopes, with a bit of a reshuffle, that there\u2019d be a little bit less noise from my immediate left; unfortunately, that hasn\u2019t quite worked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a16d41378deb4c50b564eebb2d352a12\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: May I finish the question, Mr Speaker. To finish the question, what the member seems to be forgetting, in pointing out the lack of transport options, is that this is a Government that has been in for five months; that last Government, for nine years, neglected their lack of transport options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022683f494fb6c34c7c9fa55f876c784920\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Prime Minister\u2019s position on the \u014Ctaki to Levin section of the lower North Island road of national significance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022088a98ae93624e2c864adcd68b312ab1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As we said when we made the announcement, those projects remain on the same track they\u2019re on now, and the New Zealand Transport Agency, at the moment, is still consulting on the route option\u2014and consulting with the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290bf7432f5a5401faa4c61e2e5980960\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that $5 billion will come out of the State highway improvements class on her proposed Government policy statement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd6129f4fbcd464d9d3fa47c78ecef44\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I said last week in the House, in the next three years State highway funding reduces by $500 million\u2014or 11 percent\u2014and regional and local road improvements increase by $1.2 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d655f08874c54aa081bef0383f908455\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Do any of the Prime Minister\u2019s comments or statements on transport include building 10 bridges that were promised by a certain gentleman\u2014none of which have even been started?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226734413b910848e183151210d065be5f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for the question. In my understanding, that may have actually been one of the oral questions that the Leader of the Opposition had to correct in this House, for the very reason that they haven\u2019t been delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ba6cb78f9754a83a2f3d70c870056ca\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will she commit to the road of national significance from \u014Ctaki to Levin happening, given its pre-existing status?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f81c6a8dcca430a93056eb0efb40f93\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As we said, with everything that had that pre-existing status, it\u2019s still going through the same process. And that is a decision for the board, as it was three weeks ago before we announced this policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ad1b2e3de5d949c78a3a45b65b75692e\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Crown Debt Target and Government Financial Position\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022b90cd15171044e5ea2a489f329340db1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b90cd15171044e5ea2a489f329340db1\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Is he committed to reducing core Crown net debt to 20 percent of GDP by 30 June 2022?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002229f0dd4b70b447a9b7a8b4c52887ff35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229f0dd4b70b447a9b7a8b4c52887ff35\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E This Government is committed to reducing core Crown net debt to 20 percent of GDP within five years of taking office, as indicated in the Speech from the Throne. In the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU), core Crown net debt is forecast to reach 19.3 percent of GDP by 30 June 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3c9684caf054cd7ace20a619ead980c\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I saw you use a two fingered gesture. Was that to subtract two questions from us, and, if so, when did laughing at a joke become a parliamentary sin?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022057352f236df42179ec6e604b4d4ec0f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to your question is yes. A further point is that I\u2019ve made very clear that interjecting or making noises while people are asking questions results in a loss of supplementary questions, or a gain for the side that wishes to have it run that way\u2014which is the case as far as the National Party\u2014and the member is exceptionally lucky that I do not compound that loss because of his approach to this point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4bceb13fb4b4af39b4bac3583496182\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister is committed to his debt-to-GDP target, why did he rule out public-private partnerships that the previous Government had used successfully across many years for schools, hospitals, and prisons, before claiming the fact that he can\u2019t pay for everything outright is a symptom of under-investment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e72b06f4a1d74866aed1703d9f1e6eb6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve been very clear over an extended period of time that we simply don\u2019t believe in the privatisation of health and education, as the previous Government did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c59c58d1d5249fc8b57833d34ea7bcc\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: So to maintain his debt-to-GDP anchor, why won\u2019t he tell New Zealand which of the Government\u2019s stated commitments and expectations he has raised around teachers\u2019 and nurses\u2019 pay will now have to be dialled back because he\u2019s now simply realised that he\u2019s already run out of money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022100cfb0988f34f9a889139f8ade3eef5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member will just have to wait until 17 May, but what I can be absolutely clear about is that this Government understands the importance of a balance between a prudent fiscal approach and making the investments we need to undo the social and infrastructure deficits left to us by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e93939c53eeb4047b9b5df7add9d9245\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that the additional Government revenue available to him for the current year alone, tracked from the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update projections to the Crown accounts to the end of February, is in fact an additional $700 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8889b47c18d4767a59c9592d5fcdb5b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member has been paying attention to the monthly statements from Treasury. The final forecasts are still to be done. What\u2019s important to remember, though, is it\u2019s not so much about how much extra revenue might be available to this Government; it\u2019s about what the last Government didn\u2019t do with the revenue that it had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ce2c9158cc74c928eb78c4ecf00270a\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Can he also confirm that the HYEFU shows additional tax revenue over the next four years from that which was predicted in the pre-election update is $6.6 billion more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0531e156b114394bdf6bcade46e5d62\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: There is indeed money available to be spent, and this Government will invest that wisely in making sure that we invest in health and education and housing, not the priorities of the previous Government, which were tax cuts slanted towards the most wealthy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ea68ee7936e4450bc770ff768e6f539\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: So if the Crown accounts in fact show the Government has inherited an even stronger economy than previously thought, creating more revenue from the Government than was predicted pre-election, aren\u2019t his claims of things being worse than he had allowed for just a realisation that his numbers were never going to stand up to the realities of being Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bde1a8a671324c88bd3f0dcb05d472e1\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No. What it is is a realisation of the fact that the previous Government, in an attempt to look good, create artificial surpluses, and put tax cuts that went to the wealthy, under-invested in critical public services. This Government is going to make sure that we invest in the services New Zealanders need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e534b95d1e2140949cbe22bb6aac848d\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca13bfd4d6554cefb186da6c3cb6c312\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca13bfd4d6554cefb186da6c3cb6c312\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the state of the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022f557dbc18c8243e7a1b21f24ae6b7431\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f557dbc18c8243e7a1b21f24ae6b7431\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, credit rating agency Moody\u2019s released its latest annual credit analysis, awarding New Zealand an Aaa stable credit rating. It said its rating reflects New Zealand\u2019s very high economic resilience, very strong institutions and policy effectiveness, and strong fiscal position. Moody\u2019s said that New Zealand\u2019s economic profile supports the newly elected coalition Government\u2019s credit-positive commitment to preserving surpluses and reducing Government debt as a percentage of GDP over the next five years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f48e3e878b9b472db4eb4313feb725f6\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Moody\u2019s report say about the Government\u2019s fiscal policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c60d38c50a34bfb8593b1f25bd64432\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Moody\u2019s makes the point that the Government\u2019s commitment to preserving strong public finances provides room to pursue expansionary fiscal policy. This Government is committed to managing our finances carefully, including delivering sustainable surpluses and reducing net debt to 20 percent of GDP within five years of taking office, but, at the same time, making investments, such as our Families Package, and increased investment in health and education, that are so desperately needed to address the social and infrastructure deficits facing New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f34f168e6cf4323832bd37341a60f76\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: What do recent reports he has seen say about the need for infrastructure investment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022504668acf2874a488c898bdf9b489f86\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Moody\u2019s highlight the fact that the Government will spend more on road, rail, and housing infrastructure. These are important investments to meet the infrastructure deficit that has been left to this Government. As highlighted in Treasury\u2019s investment statement released last month, 19 percent of district health board assets are in poor or very poor condition, 38 percent of school buildings are at least 50 years old, and 40 percent of social housing assets are over 50 years old. It will take more than one Budget to undo nine years of neglect, but this Government has a plan to deliver social and public services that New Zealanders deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dfe0e77dde344d69e7aa6451a9eb4bd\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this Government working so hard to lower expectations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274700378f12741b5953c7bafd0e4e0b1\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What this Government is doing is working extremely hard to make sure that New Zealanders get the public services that they deserve. I think the member might be better off lowering expectations about his dancing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5345b4893a846ff89b4020b310a9868\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not the case that his colleagues have already been housetrained by the bureaucrats and don\u2019t know how to manage them\u2014there actually are no problems?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c898edd654f14c9796c563f166c9168b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I wouldn\u2019t want to speak about the housetraining or otherwise of my colleagues, but what I can say is this Government is committed to making the balance that New Zealanders want, which is between an economy that\u2019s carefully managed and making the investments that are needed to correct the social and infrastructure deficits we\u2019ve been left with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e5b39097246a4e1da94be4e35349058a\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Middlemore Hospital Buildings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d16006c64b9e440d93d5d64b5886e67f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d16006c64b9e440d93d5d64b5886e67f\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by all his statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022482f1a9d09b8451882cee0a05f88c459\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022482f1a9d09b8451882cee0a05f88c459\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they were made and undertaken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bc855fe48764b34937429b880764bb5\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: On what date was the Minister first informed of the nature and extent of the building issues at Middlemore Hospital that are the subject of recent media attention, and what action did he take?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252bc0a09987944f59ac346f6d4ebd8d4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I was informed about the Scott Building when I visited about one month ago, roughly. In the days that followed, I signed off funding to repair that. I\u2019ve had many subsequent conversations with the district health board (DHB) in which they\u2019ve assured me that patient safety is not at risk and have alerted me to further issues with their buildings that are a result of nine years of neglect by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022959a62026e0b4f9993993093c2823d54\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Is the funding mentioned by the Minister in addition to the $17 million already approved by the previous Government for the reclad of the Scott Building\u2014the one issue that was raised with, and quickly addressed by, the previous Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e19c6a14b8e54e748b178b7f684f594f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: If the previous Government raised and addressed one issue, effectively that\u2019s one more than I\u2019ve been aware of up till now. But I\u2019d also make the point that if the member is still fixated on deficits, I wonder where he\u2019s been for the past couple of weeks, because he\u2019s obviously missed the fact that the public are aware now of rot, sewage, and mould in the walls, which has required additional funding to fix, and the public really want to know that the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022393d354b350c4ac0afd8c7df20b23f5a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That\u2019s enough. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afabf1f93fea4c4887c061f9485ab4e0\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the issue of the state of the buildings at Counties Manukau District Health Board was not even raised with the Health Committee during the review of the Auckland District Health Board on 21 February, the very forum within such issues should be raised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c07800efe34c4eba928a4c56352a1a14\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is trying to repeat the message that the acting chief executive has delivered about the district health board being afraid to raise issues about the buildings because they were expected to run surpluses, I\u2019m not sure how that is in his political advantage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229316d640b92b4616b1a7de4ab4585582\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9e5a3d09e704df2b0c254f000a0dc6f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: No attempt to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229736f6db3d614018ab8fd133ed336400\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am reflecting on that. I am going to ask the Minister to address the supplementary asked. Does he want it repeated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d4a9bc6125f4bb6906bc5834fad0134\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Repeat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed7b01845b854670a1683729be993c4b\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the issue of the state of the buildings at Counties Manukau District Health Board was not even raised with the Health Committee during the review of the Auckland District Health Board on 21 February?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271fbe2184e14450094ee09e33a27b8bc\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: That has been brought to my attention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226847159bd196485f975843929698a728\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that the Counties Manukau District Health Board were fully briefed on the building problems at Middlemore at their meeting 25 October 2017, and is he concerned that they were not brought to the attention of the select committee at all, or to his attention earlier?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c4b645fc17f4106ad7fd6392dd57e4a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. Mr Speaker, could the member please repeat the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227678b75e1d4c40558540027c6eb63393\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that the Counties Manukau District Health Board were fully briefed on the building problems at Middlemore at their meeting 25 October 2017, and is he concerned that they were not brought to the attention of the select committee at all, or to his attention earlier?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c69e0e66d08047f797f912972722f2ab\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is referring to a select committee that happened prior to that briefing\u2014if I\u2019m not mistaken. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a956256088aa46ac878f5d7debb60438\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: No; 25 October last year, 21 February this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022258067bb77dd41b397a452e923850a22\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: This year? OK. Am I concerned about that? I am concerned that these issues have taken some while to come to light, but I think that that speaks to a culture where people were afraid to raise the issues. And I think that this Government is going to do something about it. We have been unashamed\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef503c3182f14885a8e779d1b1384e98\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member will resume his seat. No, I couldn\u2019t hear that, and I have trouble ruling things in or out if I can\u2019t hear it. I\u2019ll ask the member to wind back a little way and to repeat it, and I\u2019m going to require silence from my left while that happens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c32b16cac6b498cb96a636ff8ada1ad\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: So, as a consequence, this Government is going to address the issue. We have determined that we will actually ask for a full report, a comprehensive understanding of the assets across this country, so that we can address the neglect of our infrastructure and social settings, because we believe New Zealanders deserve decent healthcare, and we intend to make sure that over time we address that historic neglect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d91acbc6366409da705bd76f360db58\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019d ask you just to reflect on the little exchange that\u2019s just happened. The answer that Dr David Clark just gave is perfectly reasonable. It\u2019s what Governments do. It\u2019s what everyone would expect, and there\u2019s no trouble maintaining a high degree of respect while he\u2019s answering. It was the comments he made in the answer that you asked to be repeated that caused the problem, and I\u2019d ask that you have a look at that on the tapes tonight to just better understand why there was such an adverse reaction on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7047b7c55634a72a4ffd3a0c45e199d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f833b551851948edb00d9d60d62b8e8a\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the costs, serious though the issues are at Middlemore Hospital, of remedies comprise about 0.006 of 1 percent, and if he reacts in this way to one issue, how is he going to perform over a $17 billion Health vote?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224f4f63319734645bfa3389f679a59a9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: To be honest, I\u2019m not sure why the member wants to keep raising the failures of the previous Government. The previous health Minister hasn\u2019t even given his valedictory. We on this side have signalled clearly that we intend to address the historic neglect of our health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e62233a860b4b6789551095e723171c\u0022\u003ETransport Infrastructure\u2014Fuel Taxes and Funding Priorities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00228e57da897ed64c3aa9f6cf52a7b1dd45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e57da897ed64c3aa9f6cf52a7b1dd45\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What is the total increased level of funding for the Public Transport activity class for the next 10 years if the mid-point level of funding proposed in the draft Government Policy Statement in the 2018/19 year continues at that level for 10 years without increase; and can he confirm that when that increased funding is added together with mid-point level funding for the new Rapid Transit and Transitional Rail activity classes over 10 years, the total new and increased funding for these three activity classes is $5.398 billion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022d988ce0229464c869488583bf761b2d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d988ce0229464c869488583bf761b2d7\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E As to the first part of the member\u2019s question, if the mid-point level of funding in the draft Government policy statement (GPS) for 2018-19 continues for 10 years, the amount that the public transport activity class will increase is zero. The question is a confused hypothetical and a contradiction in terms, and for the same reason I cannot confirm the second part of the member\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6491832fea14d86a69faf84cbc4792d\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a table prepared by the Parliamentary Library earlier today which does exactly the calculation the Minister says he can\u2019t do, which gives an answer of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a2b34843e244f2b83520bc6b25ba082\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That\u2019s it. Leave is sought to table a document alleging to do that calculation. Is there any objection to that? There appears to be none. It will be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291f57c6d674048418437c5c1e3c69d6b\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he prepared to cut $5 billion from the State highway improvement category to fund $5 billion of new public transport funding, and expecting the rest of the country to pay more in tax for that privilege?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227c9e642c79341f6afb7cbf6d703cda7\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I reject the member\u2019s assertion. Even with the investments into public transport and rapid transit in our three biggest cities and investment in freight and passenger rail adopting the mid-point, as the member does, our GPS spends on average only $90 million less per year than the former Government did on roads, because we are increasing spending on local roads, regional roads, State highway improvements, and road policing. We are spending only 2 percent less on roads than National did in their last GPS. The member is scaremongering, and if he thinks that public transport is so unpopular, he may want to know that the ridership in the Auckland public transport system has increased by 29.5 percent, and rail has nearly doubled in the last five years. The only thing that has increased faster than that is congestion under that Government\u2019s policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb3cb4eab85742808db7b55f0b65d1c8\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he expect taxpayers in Cambridge, \u014Ctaki, and Invercargill, to have to pay more in petrol taxes\u2014up to 25c a litre\u2014to fund trams in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270d2cd031967470084a112d36edbd160\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I completely reject the member\u2019s assertion or implication that we are spending less in the regions than he would have. Over the nine years of the last National\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228daceb4a9246454ca79e7ca25b325099\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. I\u2019m going to ask that member to repeat his question, because I\u2019m not sure that the Minister heard him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022262374b774d54dfaa194c1dc72efcb00\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Why should taxpayers in Cambridge, in \u014Ctaki, and in Invercargill have to pay more in petrol taxes\u2014up to 25c a litre\u2014to fund trams in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288928fd2986c42cb8d17dce283c4b9ed\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Before the Minister is required to answer this question, could we have some sort of understanding that jeering and shouting from the other side is not adequate in this Parliament, and they should be asked by you to desist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba1be7bb4a9046159d7a59f0c2b144de\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2014[Interruption] Order! I will listen more carefully, and maybe the member could talk to some of the people behind him as well, because there has been quite a lot of noise from\u2014[Interruption] Because there has been quite a lot of noise from both sides today. Now, I think we\u2019re at the point where\u2014[Interruption] That\u2019s all right. We\u2019re now at the point where we will have the question repeated for the second time in order for the Minister to address it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224192c2c3ab74786bd4ce03e768a1794\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Why should taxpayers in Cambridge and \u014Ctaki and Invercargill have to pay more in petrol taxes\u2014up to 25c a litre more\u2014to fund trams in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e45f8823dc714d029ccd2f8f223ea2b2\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member is quite wrong to say that. The good people of Cambridge and \u014Ctaki and Invercargill are not being asked by anyone to pay up to 25c extra a litre. Our Government is consulting on three consecutive\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eadacfee242741c9b3a6b5e33ac94891\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s finished answering the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bee8a4456e14b7f9ebd08f18426cab0\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister telling us that the 3c to 4c a litre petrol tax over three years added together, plus GST, plus the regional fuel tax, which he\u2019s legislating for in legislation this year, does not add up to 25c a litre?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acf1d9624a7446258df5a4822171b90d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The people of Cambridge, \u014Ctaki, and Invercargill are not being asked to pay a regional fuel tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7fd9b0e568f4b82ba0547fd608910bf\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he passing legislation to allow regional fuel taxes around the country when he claimed at the election that he would only allow it to happen in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7558ad77c364e8cb3a865ecc775bcb5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Our legislation only allows Auckland Council to put in place a regional fuel tax in the next three years. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a107bd0a63a4773abe312545c2b492f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, I\u2019m now going to ask both sides to settle down once again. Is the member finished?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4edc0e6ea854560b33fd924e990a49b\u0022\u003EEarthquake Commission\u2014Cost of Remedial Repairs in Canterbury\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002250ae39e4df694a7db646b7df1b4b7ebf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250ae39e4df694a7db646b7df1b4b7ebf\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for the Earthquake Commission: What reports has she seen about the financial impact of remedial repairs in Canterbury by EQC?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002278cb1dcf29c9457aad6c988aaff5a47f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278cb1dcf29c9457aad6c988aaff5a47f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister responsible for the Earthquake Commission):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I asked the Earthquake Commission (EQC) to prepare urgent advice to me on the total, actual cost to date of remedial repairs for both cash settlements and managed repairs in Canterbury. I was advised that this figure has reached $270 million, up substantially from the 2016 estimate of $60 million to $70 million provided by the previous Government. This is a mess the Government inherited and is committed to cleaning up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225bf46c8a35e47a894a4fcad8dac2a1e\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: What action has she taken to help resolve outstanding EQC claims?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc2b378bff48479fa265cf7bd23579bc\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I have asked Treasury to urgently forecast the parameters of the ongoing liability on remaining remedial claims. On top of the specific work to help resolve the wider concern about outstanding claims, I\u2019ve appointed an independent ministerial adviser to look at EQC\u2019s current processes and to report back to me in the coming weeks. I\u2019ve also appointed a new interim chair, Dame Annette King, to bring a different perspective to the resolution of claims. A claims management system is also being implemented to ensure claimants have a single point of contact when dealing with the commission. I anticipate there will be further changes following the report of the independent ministerial adviser.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207d5aab1062f409096cca710df850b11\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Will this blowout in remedial costs mean that some people will not be able to have their homes re-repaired?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ba57a38244541b282d38712af87fe26\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: No, not at all. The Crown guarantee ensures that people can have faith that there are sufficient funds for their re-repairs. I have asked Treasury for advice on the parameters of this liability, as this Government are prudent financial managers that will not wilfully ignore liabilities that may be facing us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002200486032d25e41df92fd9eb466f93aec\u0022\u003EIrrigation\u2014Government Funding Priorities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022012085c6d09e4cc59cfac17a8274dad8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022012085c6d09e4cc59cfac17a8274dad8\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s actions in the agricultural sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022da5542572c7c4f95bab2a85d7d2bafc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da5542572c7c4f95bab2a85d7d2bafc4\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e1ede42221a47909d6ad275ec94584b\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Did winding back Government support for irrigation go through his rural proofing test, and what impact does it have on rural communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c0d6d7ecd5844e3893553e636780cc1\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Rural proofing is not in place yet, but it will be within the next few months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3811bd60f0b4ac48fddfeb90a6a1e01\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister praised the Ashburton Lyndhurst irrigation scheme at its opening on Friday by saying, \u201CThis has got to be the best value for money that politicians have made.\u201D, why\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226218d11c15e843f7b69a38e9c3d5f8b6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. Unfortunately, there\u2019s a couple of members with quite loud laughs which are coming through the system\u2014through the open microphone of Nathan Guy. I think, to be consistent, I would have to deduct supplementaries. I\u2019m not going to be consistent but just issue a warning to the member, who knows he is responsible. Start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222f3a1848991463eaae2504c34b18dc0\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. When he stated on Friday, at the opening of the Ashburton Lyndhurst irrigation scheme, that the benefits will flow in multiples, all through Canterbury and the rest of the country, why is he not supporting the Hunter Downs scheme, given that that has been farmer-led, with them raising almost $40 million of capital to support the project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ed6c745f83845fe8c30f7b3f5be4b8a\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has said we always support irrigation, but we have stated quite clearly that we will not ask pensioners and paperboys to contribute to private large-scale schemes. This Government has prioritised quite openly the fix-up of hospitals, of schools that have been run down because of nine years of Government neglect, and if that previous Minister hadn\u2019t wasted over $350 million in Primary Growth Partnership grants, there\u2019d be more money for hospitals and homes and schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233295da7e9cd4358a0640db6eda7d6d3\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister praised the Ashburton Lyndhurst irrigation scheme at its opening just on Friday by saying, \u201CThis has got to be the best value for money investment that politicians have made.\u201D, why does he support winding down irrigation projects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc9508b06a414a74b4a69101d0ba53e0\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve stated before, the Government has better priorities for the money that Crown Irrigation Investments Limited has spent. Can I say that for less than $1 million of assistance, $150 million of farmer money went into that scheme. I have on record here the fact that the Hunter Downs project will proceed without taxpayers\u2019 funding. We will spend that money on hospitals and homes and schools because our priorities are the priorities that will give New Zealanders a fairer chance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8daee3367b34683baa97c375c5fb690\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister met Crown Irrigation officials since becoming a Minister; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022968579e5053d44d4905c6d951b1677f2\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I have met with a couple of officials from Crown Irrigation and we have sent letters to them and informed them and given them a heads up on this change from the time we became Government. This is no surprise to them and it shouldn\u2019t be to that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002273930d63ba4a47b587e5f789dda696ba\u0022\u003EMinimum Wage\u2014Increase and Fuel Tax Changes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3f384444e564a3c88752d94121fd4b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3f384444e564a3c88752d94121fd4b3\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Employment: Does he stand by all his policies, statements, and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00223460ecf845e34cdaaa863d1d723e00f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223460ecf845e34cdaaa863d1d723e00f0\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they were made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed40165a5a194d528e6fb6222da5d3fd\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister have concerns from a Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment report that warns that 3,000 jobs are in jeopardy due to minimum wage increases? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227454cb127a074c22889997d60d4d17f3\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: We are very committed to workers in this country, and in terms of concerns, we are not overly concerned at the moment. We think there\u2019s a lot of scaremongering being done from the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fad1f13e33c4705ae981a14c7ccc077\u0022\u003ERt Hon Jacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218ed3a3700984fda9fe8f3272f276038\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary\u2014no, well, if Paula Bennett wants one, she gets it first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dad83f90a8d4b01b4c208c5db57944e\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How many additional hours per week will an Aucklander on the minimum wage need to work to offset his Government\u2019s increase in fuel taxes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af21466bea274c578ad6903b906ccd60\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Not an area of responsibility for that member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d42df0c52bd4b9e875eecd50fa6ee04\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m sorry, it\u2019s about minimum wage, and I\u2019m speaking to the Minister of Employment, and asking how many additional hours they would need to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228142041af2864441b2222312b25cf5ab\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and the responsibility for the minimum wage is not with that Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f3ef9c74bd843f9be1e94a4828720f0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Jacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that in the nine occasions that the last Labour Government increased the minimum wage, they too received advice that it would lead to an increase in unemployment, and they maintained, at that time, some of the lowest unemployment rates in the OECD? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cba26620d544b878a7899f5e13e315d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member will resume his seat. That Minister also doesn\u2019t have responsibility for reports to the previous Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcba954b7cf449f88bcde590dac5001e\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government quick to increase the minimum wage because it is covered by employers, and then take that off workers through fuel taxes, leaving workers no better off? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204fadd124e87482b83edf7bc0b488e10\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s an assumption, and I don\u2019t agree with that statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c481acea5edc4e2abf066f301dff870e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that he received advice that suggested that the rumour that unemployment would rise if the wages of workers were picked up\u2014did he receive advice that such talk is classical neo-liberal nonsense? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223be0bddb94bd47eeb3e952524d9114df\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can confirm that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f04252172dbf491288692a8492ca2ab9\u0022\u003EPaul Eagle\u003C/span\u003E: What are the Government\u2019s policies to support employment and workers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d53aa3a69c8429991da4e6eee912674\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s policies to support employment and workers are investment in our regions, we\u2019re investing in our young people with He Poutama Rangatahi, we\u2019re providing dignified job assurance, and we\u2019ve just increased the minimum wage to $16.50 as a start to ensure that all people benefit from a strong economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229971ca7b2b2744e2a3ef10a3274b169c\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister discussed minimum wage increases and jobs at the Mangere Bridge Tavern, and did it cause a kerfuffle? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022604156c2a2844a4f917ecf55067b973e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t been to the Mangere Bridge Tavern for about 12 months, but you might want to talk to my colleague Peeni Henare, who frequents it every Saturday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f4f921479654279a9e6650eb7fa83b3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right. I think I\u2019ll leave the obvious comment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f16b354817394b228c6113cc5ec604a4\u0022\u003EEarly Childhood Education\u2014Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u002269dee2ddae37485a9e50179ef8815262\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269dee2ddae37485a9e50179ef8815262\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What funding challenges does the early child education sector face?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002224a5b34539cf446b92f41e47afde1ce9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224a5b34539cf446b92f41e47afde1ce9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The early childhood education (ECE) sector is facing a number of challenges, one of which has been caused by the lack of any universal funding increase to early childhood education to meet inflation for over a decade. Minuscule adjustments were made to the non-salary component over that time. However, 70 to 80 percent of teacher-led early childhood centres\u2019 costs are salaries, for which there has been no increase in funding over the past decade. This means that for centres with mainly qualified teachers, their funding rate has declined by 12 percent in real terms since 2009, and the decline is 14 percent for kindergartens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267385d474cba4400a8c08d4677fac1ff\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: What implications does ECE funding not keeping pace with inflation mean for the affordability of early childhood education? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5cf5bd4e9704d178f59a2b72f40746d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Statistics New Zealand\u2019s Consumers Price Index shows that between June 2009 and June 2017, early childhood education fees increased by 30 percent whilst over that time New Zealanders\u2019 earnings only increased by 21 percent. I have asked the Ministry of Education to do more work on the data that we record about early childhood education affordability and fees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228672a7d90df94289860c7ba81696597a\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: What difference will New Zealanders notice in this Government\u2019s approach to the early childhood sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280b65646e3424bf19fcebd8e40565208\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is absolutely resolved that we must focus on quality as well as participation when it comes to early childhood education. We recognise that the near funding freeze that early childhood services have been under for the last decade is unsustainable. However, we also have to balance that against a number of other cost pressures in the education system that have been caused by underfunding over the last decade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eb05094524604fc9984a9a73ef716c49\u0022\u003EDigital Services\u2014Chief Technology Officer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7e1242f783c4342a1fad52df1065609\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7e1242f783c4342a1fad52df1065609\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Government Digital Services: Does she agree with the comment made by ICT veteran and expert in the industry, Ian Apperley, who said \u201Cwhen you read the Government\u2019s chief technology officer job description it occurs to me that making the role effective is provably impossible. It is largely waffly which means the Government may not know what it wants\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4e2ff21b5ea4650b48db3d826aa66cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4e2ff21b5ea4650b48db3d826aa66cd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Government Digital Services: No, because the Government has clearly articulated what it expects from the chief technology officer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227440fa473284482eb0c220deaca6e3fd\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the comments of Mr Apperley, who said, \u201CCreating an environment where the industry can flourish is simple: normalise the procurement processes, speed up the legislative process, open overseas markets, stop thinking you know best, stop thinking you\u2019re the leader, and start thinking about how to create an environment in which the technology business can flourish\u2014and we don\u2019t need a $500,000 person to tell us that.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022430b809c716d4fe2a801dc040aa91b98\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: No. The Government does believe that there is a role for leadership in this space, and that is why we\u2019re employing a chief technology officer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022febd18ec5d1e428e88083be5002168c1\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: If she doesn\u2019t agree with the comments of Mr Apperley, a 25-year veteran of the industry, can she confirm that she is now holding meetings, both formal and informal, that could be construed as the Minister headhunting for this position?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227ca05de7ce8437998dd31c304627efa\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: In respect to the first part of the question I can say that there are a number of people who would disagree, including Rod Drury, who\u2019s made comments in favour of it; Don Christie, who\u2019s made comments in favour of it; the McGuiness Institute; Chris Kiehl; Craig Walker; and many others who are in favour of the Government\u2019s decision to employ a chief technology officer. I also note that a previous Minister proposed a chief technology officer role: that was one Simon Bridges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d39b1492961409cbfac030aeef29102\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Has she held any meetings, formal or informal, breakfast or otherwise, with Carol Hirschfeld regarding the position?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c85338a2fd1a4d8b92cdc7d8356468a0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Clearly, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222f7d891a50aa40c29dfad88ff377a817\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u002255f5bd6bb11842809325d925a2460e3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255f5bd6bb11842809325d925a2460e3c\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a document that shows the Minister of Transport can put regional fuel taxes outside of Auckland after 2021. [Interruption] The source of it is his own bill, the regional fuel tax amendment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7f909c804be4180b3086516ac0733ed\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022947a98f37b6c4d5bbc02c4a0d22d73fb\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s there! [Holds up printed sheet of paper]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002218b94737f64d4eaca3b6723e423586dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218b94737f64d4eaca3b6723e423586dd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is\u2014I\u2019m assuming it\u2019s a bill that\u2019s either introduced to the House or it\u2019s been on the Table? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221077e5a1c04f424eaaed3ed5ad9477aa\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Schedule 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228a9c4efb32a4186bffc348f08b0bde6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m trying to work out how to deal with the member, who I think is being deliberately, deliberately mischievous. My view is that he got a very clear answer from the Minister on the question, especially one which related to timing. He is now seeking to use a point of order process to relitigate that, and, worse still, he\u2019s doing it with something which is already on the Table of the House and has been introduced to the House. I\u2019m giving the member a pretty serious warning that further behaviour of that sort by him\u2014and I\u2019ll ask Mr Brownlee to impose some discipline on his colleagues\u2014is likely to result in something pretty serious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257460cde38864f20a4a5ab2398d90aaf\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264fe6499ec1f4d70ba0e4e71a16841af\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I don\u2019t think\u2014I\u2019ve just made a ruling, Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee6d407782f54e56aaec90da71cf17a0\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d41015f48ab841fa938ac48b08ec6bd9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to make a new point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b351c994e6a242cca1cc2a06eb18083d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you made a ruling and a request, so it\u2019s natural I would respond to that request.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022252b0268bee74b039cdf9cbe5a74d234\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the request was that you respond to your colleagues, not to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dab16092bc9a42aab0c1102d4dc3078e\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right, and I\u2019m indicating to you that I will not be telling my colleagues to let Ministers away with making statements in the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b1dc6f87fbc43d6a00cc949d75ffd5e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ef8293ad391488a9a5389faea04598e\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that are not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2f2f85d2eee4ff3a61af8cd61dd31c6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Opposition just lost five supplementaries from tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022653728571a2644b8a08c0d78c775996e\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014District Health Board Deficit Levels\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9cac5ca7fd84fb7b7ca4830383ad78a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9cac5ca7fd84fb7b7ca4830383ad78a\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What advice has he received about DHB deficit levels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u002218492d7e619b4d49b4c6c8d815f7193f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218492d7e619b4d49b4c6c8d815f7193f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E The majority of district health boards (DHBs) are struggling to live within their current level of funding. I\u2019m advised that DHB financial results for the year to the end of February showed a combined deficit of $189 million. I\u2019m further advised the Ministry of Health is forecasting a total DHB deficit of $209 million or more by the end of the financial year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d57cc306960346278eafcd26231317d6\u0022\u003EDr Liz Craig\u003C/span\u003E: Why have DHB deficits grown to their current levels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efb248253b5d4fafafc588dd67ca1c33\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: To put it bluntly, the health service has been underfunded, as everyone can see from the state of Middlemore Hospital. As Minister of Health, DHB chairs know my expectation, that DHBs be careful stewards of health funding, but this is not, as was claimed on Morning Report yesterday, just an accounting issue you deal with. That was what the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1fd9b9f62994fd69f0e5a460c114497\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3f477d688f840c3b6ceb561e6cbb165\u0022\u003EDr Liz Craig\u003C/span\u003E: So what will the Government do to address DHB deficits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df9dbcedda7c46caa2ed3eb94cebd791\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: As the Prime Minister indicated yesterday, the focus of Budget 2018 will outline the first steps in rebuilding quality public services that keep our nation strong. I expect DHBs will see the benefit of this focus in the upcoming Budget. However, after nine years of underfunding and neglect, it will not be possible\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266866b1540fa4aea87340533e038503a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb9f6024f5d445b7aa25e33ef22a62be\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document compiled by the Parliamentary Library entitled Combined DHB Deficits 2000 to 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a179b288ef8d449fb229aed59b398871\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that? There is objection. It will not be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec140da6ef54453989bf0abc0df2f9a3\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222bf66ab8877342e0a316641e7f587d5b\u0022\u003ECrown Irrigation Investments Ltd\u2014Winding Down of Public Funding for Large-scale Irrigation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00227b617c890e1f42aaa4b1a536776c7cc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b617c890e1f42aaa4b1a536776c7cc0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from the Hon Nathan Guy seeking to debate under Standing Order 389 the announcement of the Government\u2019s intention to wind down public funding for large-scale irrigation through Crown Irrigation Investments Ltd. This announcement was made last Thursday. This is a case of recent occurrence that involves ministerial responsibility. The application does not set out reasons why the House should be set aside to debate the matter. Successive Speakers have held that it is for the member making the application to make out a case for an urgent debate. It is not for the Speaker to discover one\u2014Speakers\u2019 rulings 190(3), Speakers Hunt and Smith. On the information presented to me, I\u2019m not persuaded that the matter requires the urgent attention of the House. It is a matter that could be raised in the annual review debate today or in the upcoming Budget debate. The application is therefore declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022490b099a6a93491dbc0edcf064e7ff2c\u0022\u003EAnnual Review Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022706d7791d57349079ff248c1e3012c8e\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000248\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 3 April on the Appropriation (2016/17 Confirmation and Validation) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed94a1b962384fffb9e0dd9563988f60\u0022\u003EExternal Sector (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7f66b91a8e94104b6ee198dae529d3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7f66b91a8e94104b6ee198dae529d3c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for Trade and Export Growth):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to talk to the external votes. Of course, trade is one of the areas that\u2019s covered by this appropriation and, as Minister for Trade and Export Growth, I\u2019m keenly interested in the Estimates. The sad reality is that the last Government oversaw an objective for nine years, which was to lift exports from 30 percent of GDP to 40 percent of GDP. After nine years of their attempts, they managed to drop exports to 27 percent of GDP and, to the end of the forecast period, they didn\u2019t even get back to the 30 percent of GDP that they started at during their term of government. Sir, that shows, I think\u2014Madam, sorry. Madam, that shows that\u2014Mr Brownlee\u2019s appearance has obviously confused me. That shows the failure of the economic policy of the last Government in a very, very important way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI think everyone in New Zealand knows that in order to pay for our mobile phones, for our computers, for some of the medicines we import, for our cars\u2014for a lot of the things that we rely upon for a good standard of living\u2014we\u2019ve got to sell a lot of things to the rest of the world. What we export to the world is largely a determinant of what it is that we can afford to import, and therefore goes to the quality of living and to the debt levels that we carry with the rest of the world. The last Government thought that they had the policy package to remedy what they said, when they came to office, was a dismal export performance, and then took it backwards. I think that we now know that their policy prescription was wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI want to talk to two aspects of it. One is the important work that the Minister of Finance is leading. That is the subject of an inquiry led by former Minister of Finance Sir Michael Cullen. That inquiry is looking at what we need to do to change the tax signal in New Zealand. I\u2019m acutely interested in their recommendations, because I know that the Minister of Finance and I both share the view that one of the problems that we have in New Zealand is that we misallocate capital, too much of which goes into speculative investment classes and not enough goes into the productive sectors that we need to expand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow the Government has got a number of measures to address that, in addition to the tax inquiry, but I suspect that when we look back on history of this period of government, the work that Sir Michael Cullen is doing will be amongst the most important\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225481627d5dc048fca086b568f3f52922\u0022\u003EHon Maggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Urgh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226da128ec6ed147479f1276868a3ff9f5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in terms of growing the strength of the economy. I heard Maggie Barry groan there; well, you know, the flip side of the under-investment in productivity\u2014because although the last Government said that they had a high growth rate, their last growth rate was effectively based on more inputs of people, more power, more cows, more people, and more tourists. When you adjust growth rates for population growth, per capita growth rates in New Zealand for some time now have only been about 1 percent per annum. We\u2019re not going to remedy that unless we invest more as a country in growing new points of comparative advantage with the rest of the world, so that we can grow the diversity of our exports as well as spread the breadth of the markets into whom we sell those goods and services. In addition to that, the work that\u2019s been led by Dr Megan Woods in respect of the research and development tax credit will also assist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn the time I\u2019ve got left, I want to make reference to free-trade agreements. Free-trade agreements were oversold by the last Government as being the key to export growth. We already have the best trade agreement in the world with Australia, one of the best free-trade agreements in the world in terms of our arrangements with China, and despite those agreements, we\u2019ve had dropping exports. It proves the point that important though free-trade agreements are, they are not the key to export growth; that lies in better economic settings that drive financial capital, and then the people follow the money and put their efforts into growing new points of advantage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EHaving said that, we are proud to have got the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership across the line, to have rebuilt public support by trade, by protecting New Zealanders from some of the excesses of globalisation, including by restricting who buys our homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af8b83b69644a19b9f9be045a983e63\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc4770d2d71a414db47cc34743c7f673\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc4770d2d71a414db47cc34743c7f673\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Mark Mitchell. I\u2019m sorry; I\u2019m on several things at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00225cbb7e04e1c54a7cab31be14d59ec1c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cbb7e04e1c54a7cab31be14d59ec1c2\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I can live with that. I remember one time, a previous Speaker referred to me as Grant Robertson. It took me a long time to get over that. It took me a long time to recover from that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ELook, I just wanted to open by saying that I found it very interesting, and I\u2019m disappointed\u2014actually, I can\u2019t refer to a member that\u2019s not in the House. But I found it very interesting in the general debate last week, and it\u2019s the first time I\u2019ve ever seen it where you had a Government Cabinet Minister get up and spend his whole general debate speech talking about the Opposition member. That was Ron Mark talking about myself. I was very honoured\u2014I was very honoured that Ron gave me that much attention. It was obvious that he\u2019s still pretty sensitive about his Uber habits, but I found it interesting that you had a Cabinet Minister get up and, instead of actually talking about the things that are actually going on inside his portfolio\u2014namely, defence, and the great work that our people are doing around the world, or the procurement that he\u2019s working on, or the issues of the day\u2014he got up and he spoke about the Opposition spokesperson for five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI just want to talk a little bit about one of the big issues that he\u2019s been talking about\u2014and it\u2019s good to see the Minister of Finance in the House, too, because maybe he may like to take a call and respond to one of the issues that I\u2019m about to talk to now. That\u2019s about procurement, because a big part of what\u2019s going to happen inside New Zealand defence forces this year is going to be procurement. Namely, immediately first off the block is going to be the P-8 Poseidon, which, of course, our RNZAF needs to replace our surveillance and intelligence capability, which historically\u2014or for the last 52 years\u2014has been delivered through the extremely reliable, outstanding P3 Orion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s time to retire them. They are 52 years old. Our air force does an amazing job of maintaining them and keeping them flying, but, fundamentally, it\u2019s time to invest in some new aircraft to close the capability gap, to make sure that we are reliant and we are interoperable with our partners, and to give them a new aircraft, in the P-8 Poseidon. One of the reasons, and one of the issues that\u2019s been raised, in terms of why this could be an issue or the reason why the decision has been delayed\u2014or, as the Minister says, why he\u2019s kicking the can down the road\u2014is because of our procurement system and the fact that they want to make sure that we\u2019re actually getting the best value for money. And that\u2019s a good thing; that\u2019s something that a Government should be doing. But I just want to highlight something about our procurement system through the Ministry of Defence, and I\u2019m just going to make these comments, from the last review, in relation to procurement: \u201CThis has included reviewing its project management disciplines, procedures, policies, and practices according to international best [standard].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe ministry previously employed eight permanent project management staff in its capability delivery division. It now has 57 \u2026 staff. We heard that this has enabled the ministry to build specialist expertise in commercial project management, financial management, and risk management. The ministry\u2019s leaders now also have commercial experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe ministry has introduced project teams that integrate ministry and [New Zealand Defence Force] staff, and it has strengthened its governance and assurance functions. The Secretary of Defence said all of these changes have been implemented in partnership with the [New Zealand Defence Force].\u201D\u2014under a National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo you can see that there\u2019ve already been some major changes, some major focus, and some major investment into making sure that we get our procurement right. We recognise and understand that, as a small nation, as a relatively small defence force, when we do procure the new equipment\u2014and we\u2019ve had some hard lessons along the way. The NH90 is a very good example that was tough to bring into service, and we had some big issues to deal with\u2014but I would highlight and point out that that procurement decision was taken under the last Labour Government, not the National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe National Government moved to make sure that our procurement system is world standard and that we don\u2019t continue to make the same mistakes that we have made in the past. So my point is this: I\u2019m very interested for either the Minister of Finance or the Minister of Defence to come down and take a call and tell us what exactly they\u2019ve done to improve our procurement system\u2014what new measures have they captured, or what new measures have they implemented, that have improved our procurement system, which mean that they don\u2019t have to purchase or procure the P-8 Poseidon, which means that they\u2019re going to be able to delay decisions on important procurement decisions through the defence capability paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, I\u2019ve run out of time, but I\u2019d invite the Minister of Finance to stand and take a call and explain to us what changes they\u2019re going to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u002287ed679e513a4bf5bddf98750964b50e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287ed679e513a4bf5bddf98750964b50e\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you very much for the opportunity to take a call in support of the Appropriation (2016/17 Confirmation and Validation) Bill, as the proud Minister of Customs. Customs comes within the ambit of this particular theme. I just want to acknowledge the work of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee. It\u2019s very few reports that come back to the House where a select committee like the one in question starts the report with saying, \u201COur congratulations to Customs for its work. We would like to congratulate Customs for its work at the border to protect New Zealanders, in particular its work to intercept and disrupt the supply of illicit drugs.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been the Minister of Customs for not quite six months. So I do want to acknowledge the former Ministers, the Hon Tim Macindoe and, of course, the Hon Nicky Wagner, who were also really key in the work that customs does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ECan I just acknowledge and talk briefly in terms of the annual review on three areas, and one is, obviously, travel. So, just to remind the House, the three broad functions of customs are to protect New Zealand\u2019s borders, to promote and facilitate secure and efficient trade and travel, and, of course, to collect Crown revenue. In terms of collecting revenue, it might be of interest to members of the House that customs collects around 18 percent\u201418 percent\u2014of the core Crown tax revenue annually. That\u2019s approximately $13.2 billion that customs collects on behalf of the Government. It\u2019s not a light fee, but it\u2019s important to acknowledge customs\u2019 role, and I think they do an absolutely good job in that respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI also want to touch on the success of some recent initiatives, particularly around the use of SmartGates, and to acknowledge that our visitor rates to this country have increased by approximately 9.3 percent on the previous year. That equates to approximately 13.27 million passengers that have come through our gates in the year that\u2019s under review\u2014like I said, an increase of 9.3 percent. Of those 13 million, approximately 5.8 million use the SmartGates. The SmartGates\u2014many of those that travel in and out of New Zealand will recall that if you\u2019ve got an electronic passport, it facilitates both your entry to and exit from the country in a lot more seamless way. So 6 million passengers use the SmartGates and, just so members know, the recent additions in the year under question include passengers from China, France, Germany, the Netherlands, and Ireland who have taken up the opportunity, if they\u2019ve got e-passports, to use that particular facility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s the protecting of New Zealand borders\u2014the interception of illicit drugs at the border\u2014that I do want to turn the House\u2019s attention to, to acknowledge the work that customs do in, obviously, keeping our borders safe. Recently, and last year, particularly\u20142017\u2014approximately $1 billion was captured at the border that we believed would have led to harm. It\u2019s important that we acknowledge that by preventing the movement of drugs across our border, it\u2019s not then ending up going into our social services\u2019 laps in terms of dealing with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EHowever, the point I want to make here is having international officers in the countries from where we know that drugs are coming in is really critical to the border security system. I do a nod to the Minister of Finance that we have to ensure that the services at those borders internationally are really critical if we\u2019re going to maintain that record. Having said that, I know customs is also very instrumental in some of the tariff work that\u2019s going on in terms of potential trade partners. Again, that is something that we need to make sure that we\u2019re improving and that we are resourcing them appropriately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIn the time I\u2019ve got left, I want to acknowledge the modernisation of the Customs and Excise Act that this House recently passed. It\u2019s an acknowledgment of several years of hard work not only by officials in customs but also by the stakeholders\u2014the businesses that engage with customs\u2014to ensure that we\u2019ve got a modern Act that reflects the needs of businesses today, going forward. I believe it\u2019s a tool that\u2019s going to be well received by stakeholders and businesses throughout New Zealand and, of course, our trading partners, who realise that our Act to enable that is healthy and is modern. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00223c869b7197bd479c96cd1e2941d0e85e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c869b7197bd479c96cd1e2941d0e85e\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. May I begin by acknowledging that envy is not a particularly attractive quality in anybody, but I am suffering deeply from envy on two counts. One is that my successor as the Minister of Customs has what the Hon Maurice Williamson, another former Minister, once said to me was, without doubt, the best portfolio of the lot. In fact, his language was far more colourful in describing how fortunate I was to have been allocated that, but I did very quickly come to acknowledge that. I also want to say how envious I am of the current Minister for the fact that she has been able to see the Customs and Excise Bill become an Act, because the whole time that I was a Minister it was stuck on the Order Paper, not quite able to get up to that level of priority required for progress. But, as we have seen, the current Government, having no legislation of its own, was only too pleased to be able to pick up such an outstanding bill, and I do congratulate the new Minister in being able to get it over the line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI was delighted that yesterday they had a formal acknowledgment of that, and I was very sorry I wasn\u2019t able to attend, but I sincerely thank you, and I sincerely wish the Minister well in that portfolio. Could I also just quickly acknowledge the very fine men and women of the New Zealand Customs Service: it was my great privilege to be their Minister\u2014for too short a time, I have to say. They do an outstanding job in protecting our borders\u2014and never underestimate how significant a challenge that is\u2014but, also, as is perhaps not as often acknowledged, in facilitating trade in this country. The Minister has just touched on some of the reasons for that, and, again, I thank them. They are an outstanding group of men and women, and they serve our country extraordinarily well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWhen we were last debating this particular external relations theme of the Appropriation Bill, news came through of the decision of Lieutenant General Tim Keating to stand down from his position as Chief of the New Zealand Defence Force. I just want to say quickly how grateful we should all be to Lieutenant General Keating for the service he has rendered to this country since 36 years ago, when he first joined the New Zealand Army as an officer cadet. He rose through the ranks. In February 2011 he was appointed Chief of Army, in December 2012 he was appointed the Vice Chief of the Defence Force, and since January 2014 he has served as Chief of the Defence Force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI think that most of us would acknowledge the fact that we are very proud of all our armed service personnel, who serve us with courage and distinction, both at home and abroad. All New Zealanders, I think, have reason to be grateful for the valour with which our Defence Force personnel undertake a myriad of important roles\u2014and one of them, of course, has just been alluded to by the Minister of Customs: they back up their work. But, also, whether it\u2019s in peacekeeping, military training, back-up for conservation, civil defence operations\u2014it crosses just about the whole gamut of important aspects of protecting our country. So I wish the Lieutenant General well, and all who have served under him, and I thank him for his exemplary service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EOf course, we have under consideration at the moment foreign affairs. Now, traditionally in New Zealand, foreign affairs has been something that has largely operated in a bipartisan manner, and I think that that is a good thing. However, it is deeply disturbing\u2014and I say this as the National Party\u2019s new associate spokesperson for foreign affairs and trade\u2014that at the moment you\u2019d have to say New Zealand\u2019s foreign policy, at least in regard to the recent Russian nerve agent attack in Salisbury in the United Kingdom but also on related trade issues, has been incoherent and, frankly, deeply disturbing. All other countries with which we would normally associate ourselves very quickly responded to the considerable weight of evidence in that particular issue and supported our strongest allies\u2014the UK, and also the United States, the Australians, the European Union, and many others with whom we are traditionally associated\u2014in condemning that attack and coming to the support of the United Kingdom; but not New Zealand, for a very long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAnd when we finally did, we had the extraordinary position of seeing the New Zealand Government\u2019s website being altered, mysteriously, after an initial press release had been issued in which the Foreign Minister\u2019s comments were completely absent. It was only some days later that this press release was doctored. We are yet to hear why and who was responsible for that, but it does show that things are deeply incoherent at the moment. In his obsession with pursuing a trade agreement with Russia, we have a Foreign Minister who seems to be going off on his own in ways that I\u2019m quite sure his coalition partners are not at all comfortable with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI wish that there was more time. I would like to talk a little bit more about the customs portfolio, but, again, I close, as I did at the beginning, by saying what an honour it was to be their Minister and to thank them for the way in which they have served our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u002216a6243e5abc4db1b0e27950ec7ee61f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216a6243e5abc4db1b0e27950ec7ee61f\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister of Forestry):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair. Nine long years, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288506865bb8f40fc8b92c9a8d1a8b36c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Good years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229da1efbed14e4eb581787bb65301d726\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Ah, there\u2019s the eye of Nelson. The eye of Nelson has spoken, some sort of local dragonfly. I want the House to know that when a dragonfly is in its earliest stages of life, it lives under the water and survives because of rectal gills. There we have the evidence sitting before us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI should continue. Nine long years: exports decreasing, water quality diminishing, people\u2014especially in that targeted area, our young men and women in the forgotten regions\u2014languishing under the unhelpful term of \u201Cneets\u201D. And then what do we find? What do we find? Total denial\u2014total denial\u2014that when they led trade policy, it led to one of the greatest protest marches, virtually closed down the Auckland motorway. It required David Parker to ride forward, with his usual southern frugality, aided a little by some Northland fecklessness, and deliver the deal, the trans-Pacific deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, what did they do on the other side of the House? They made these petty, silly remarks that we hadn\u2019t brought forward certain historical things that were associated with them. They couldn\u2019t get the deal done. That is the legacy. They could not get the deal done. It required a change of Government. But I need to look backwards to enable that we don\u2019t, as we move forward with the billion-dollar fund, make the mistakes of the past. Now, let me just focus for a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294da4222651c4966818c843e9c46f508\u0022\u003EMatt King\u003C/span\u003E: Roll on 2020, mate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5ba452597f943a296248281eea3d998\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Ah, we\u2019ve now heard from the farmer from Northland, Mr King. Of course, I\u2019ve said on earlier occasions that when you\u2019re a farmer, you usually see gumboots at the front door, reflective of farm work. The only Skellerup we see is \u201Cfoot in mouth\u201D in the House from time to time. But I won\u2019t attack Skellerup\u2014a great export brand. I\u2019m here to talk about the upside of exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022354b89915774498a9a2622c6548b3533\u0022\u003EFletcher Tabuteau\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t disparage Skellerup.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f4e728003d341269b1880c6873e8e13\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry, Skellerup. If I owe you an apology that I\u2019ve created this inverse relationship with the member from Northland and your fine product, I apologise to all and sundry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297a8da4d0ff84d488257649412973df3\u0022\u003EMatt King\u003C/span\u003E: Keep saying my name\u2014keep saying my name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273808cf6f0f04f3c89050e615bd29e25\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: But\u2014no. We\u2019ve heard enough about rectal glands, thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI want to continue as to what also was not achieved. What was not achieved was enabling infrastructure development and investment, which is why at the moment we are addressing all of those areas of neglect. There was a lot of rhetoric and a lot of plans and trees cut down and ink spilt, but it required a change of Government in order for it to be accelerated and fuelled. But more about that once the great Budget is passed by our senior colleague in the not too distant future. But let\u2019s just talk a little bit about the ongoing neglect, and I want to focus on the provinces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EInadequate training opportunities\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcc872f5c9b945fea0db687a188382c1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d quite like you to focus\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224ce7cec8d6942bc81061b54c5e00201\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I am talking about historical neglect in terms of export growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b73bf7b6c23d4236ae65d9447db11b40\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I would like you to focus on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, if you\u2019re talking about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de63264ed8204307b4bfcef14c2a9c27\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but trade divorced from economic growth is piffle. But I will take your advice\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c3de3268524474a925026c9b48eaa1e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: You can make that point, but bring it together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223babe8287b4440d8b8288769ac07ac5\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I will take your advice. I will take your advice, as befits me as the champion of the provinces\u2014suitably modest. You cannot have trade out of the provinces, the generators of vast amounts of foreign exchange earnings, unless you have enabling infrastructure. We did not see that infrastructure, so necessary for transport. I could talk to you about the apocryphal ten bridge failure. I could talk to you about the deterioration of roads. How can you increase trade in the absence of continually investing for economic purposes in infrastructure in the provinces?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EBut I want to\u2014I have wound up? [Looks at clock] No I haven\u2019t; I\u2019ve got more to say. I want to support Mr Parker and have every single farmer and every single participant in these debates know that we stood up, we picked up the reins, and we\u2019re the Government who brought forward the unfinished trade agenda and passed it. We have delivered it to the satisfaction of New Zealanders. That is why our writ runs very strong throughout the provinces, not because of our very judicious allocation of funding\u2014more on that very soon, more on that very soon. Now, Mr Parker has taken, unfortunately, some cruel taunts from the other side of the House. Mr Parker, do not pay any attention. The longer they\u2019re in the oppositional desert, the worse their language will become. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002224818d2fff2541a6b4c0c0517ca6e274\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224818d2fff2541a6b4c0c0517ca6e274\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. In speaking in the appropriation debate, regarding the external sector, I\u2019d like to focus on the defence realm. It seems to me that the New Zealand Defence Force is a great institution of our great nation and should be supported in many ways, not least of all in the appropriations space. Before I go on to talk about some specifics in relation to that, following on from my colleague Mark Mitchell\u2019s discussion of the procurement process and the signals but not, so far, apparent changes in relation to that, I did want to pay tribute to the hard-working women and men of our Defence Force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAnzac Day is coming up shortly, of course, and that will not be an occasion for political discussion, and I\u2019m sure that no member of this House on either side will treat it as such. But I did just want to acknowledge that in this House before moving on to, perhaps, the more political realm whereby we talk about the things that are needed to support our troops.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThey have always been ready to support us, and for that reason we must always be ready to support them. Whether at home\u2014for example, most recently in relation to the Kaik\u014Dura earthquakes\u2014or abroad, they are doing great things with and for us, and, accordingly, we must fund their operations properly. We will expend more blood if we expend less treasure on them, to use the old characterisation of the things that are inevitably spent in meeting the aims of a defence force. So I make the point quite explicitly that we must support them, and I call upon and challenge the Government, indeed, to support them not only in terms of capital expenditure on new items, and, as I say, my colleague Mark Mitchell\u2014the Hon Mark Mitchell, no less, former defence Minister\u2014has talked about that. But I want focus a bit more on some of the operations that the defence force is currently undertaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s important that we set out clearly for the record the things that they are doing so that we know that these things are valuable and, therefore, worth our time, attention, and, indeed, Government revenue. I\u2019ve taken the opportunity to speak before in this House about the Royal New Zealand Navy. I\u2019m somewhat self-indulgent because of my previous occupation as a member of that service. I\u2019ll pass on quickly to mention\u2014again, somewhat in passing, because I have spoken of them before\u2014the Royal New Zealand Navy Air Force and the base at Whenuapai, which is within my electorate of Helensville. So it\u2019s with great pleasure that I observe their activities, again, at home and abroad, and, indeed, in that local community with good relationships, for example, with the local school, Whenuapai School.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll instead pass on to mention a few of the undertakings of our New Zealand Army. Community support, international engagements, exercises, and deployments are all part of their remit, and I\u2019ll just take a brief amount of time, if I may, to cast my eye, and, therefore, the collective eye of the House, over a few of those deployments, so I hope you\u2019ll forgive me if I refer to a few notes as I do so, Madam Chair Tolley. The detail obviously is important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo in Afghanistan, the New Zealand Army is providing mentoring roles to officers of that nation\u2019s military. In the Sinai, as with many such operations in conjunction with New Zealand Defence Force members of the other services, they are implementing the Egypt\u2013Israel Peace Treaty. In the Middle East, more generally, the UN Truce Supervision Organisation is doing work to support that. In Iraq, along with Australian Defence Force members, they are building partner capability mission. In the South Sudan, the newest nation of planet Earth, they are supporting the UN mission there\u2014a modest contribution by way of numbers, but an important one, none the less. In the Republic of Korea, they are monitoring the compliance of that Armistice agreement\u2014a part of the world that is, in particular, in international headlines recently. Finally, they are in the Antarctica, supporting the work of Antarctica New Zealand, of a scientific and other nature down there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI come to the end of my time but just to reiterate my challenge, as I do so, to the Government to put our money\u2014New Zealanders\u2019 money\u2014where their mouth is in terms of supporting our troops for all the good work that they do on our behalf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EReports relevant to the External Sector noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228976fc2d3735491db0c7992665be0a23\u0022\u003EFinance and Government Administration Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022ceef699904ac413c8384e8b57773f663\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ceef699904ac413c8384e8b57773f663\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (Chairperson of the Governance and Administration Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak on this debate because, after all, what we\u2019re really talking about here, as we review the financial performance of Government entities from the previous financial year, is that essential bedrock and extremely high-performing economy and set of public services that the outgoing National-led Government has left for the incoming coalition Government. Already we\u2019ve seen in the media in the last day or so a feeble attempt by this Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022585c6376d9e240f588ea95a70abf3952\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278e5c871f3e64805a97777343f474b07\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to create crises where none such exist\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eefdad256224ca189a63a339cb229ea\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member. A point of order\u2014Kiritapu Allan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272f3f657d7964fd9be68eb8c977982c4\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair, pursuant to your commentary in the introductory remarks of this section, it was noted that the comments from the chairs of select committees were not to be overtly political, and I just ask for some guidance in respect of the comments being made by the current speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268893e8698ea488bb33ceebb7eabd327\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Madam Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214e8009d7bdb4b0ba5ba1d75189a0a4d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t need any help. The member is absolutely correct. This is a report from the Governance and Administration Committee, and it should be reporting the findings and the discussions of the select committee. It should be absolutely non-political.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3a6ee1c848d488483e8d5c5ea2d9c08\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. So what the committee was able to report, across the entities that it looked at, is a reflection of the solid state of the accounting, the books, the handling of their accounts, and, indeed, the services that our Government agencies are delivering to New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EOne I\u2019d like to touch on to begin with, please, is the Department of Internal Affairs. It\u2019s a bit of a department about everything, actually, in New Zealand. It has an extraordinarily broad remit, and with it comes a great responsibility across huge areas of interest to the public, a responsibility that it takes very seriously. One of such areas, one of the challenges it has and which it spoke with us about, is the ability to keep each of the silos\u2014they may not like them to be referred to as such, but just for ease of understanding\u2014of the services it provides. Each one of them has to be accounted as very much, almost, an independent entity. They can\u2019t be in deficit in one and in surplus in another. They\u2019re meant to manage each of them effectively, and they have done a very, very good job in the year in question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThey\u2019ve actually achieved a small surplus, a surplus of almost $30 million, which they have advised us is a necessary buffer because, as they forecast into both the current financial year and years ahead, there will be some pressures that come, particularly as a result of the change in the validity of passports which was made by the previous Government. Whereas for some years we had operated with passports that would be valid for five years, all new passports will be valid for 10, and the department spoke to us about how that will impact revenue flows around the delivery of those services over the coming years. They also highlighted for us at the same time, of course, that some of their costs\u2014in fact, many of their costs\u2014around technology are quite fixed. So they\u2019ll see quite a flat to moderately increasing cost base, but a revenue line, particularly around passports, that will vary quite differently from where it\u2019s been in recent years. So they did highlight to us that although\u2014and we agreed\u2014they have done a very, very good job in managing the services against the budget that they have had, it isn\u2019t going to be without its challenges in the coming years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EWhen we spoke to them about passports, too, we were very interested to get a sense from them about how the extended validity period may or may not compromise the security of the passports of New Zealand, which are held in very high regard around the world\u2014one of the highest-regarded countries, actually, if you use the measure of visa-free entry into other countries. Their view is that once you get to around seven or eight years there is a challenge around the embedded security elements within passports, but they remain very confident that the work they continue to do to improve in that area will continue to keep us in good stead, despite that change in passport validity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThe other area we spoke to them quite a great deal about was the delivery of digital services through what used to be the Government Chief Information Officer office but now is the Government Chief Digital Officer. One area which we did raise some concern about is the identification or log-on verification service the Government runs, called RealMe. Consistently over the years the uptake in that service falls well, well behind projections, and it\u2019s something that we have encouraged the department to put a great deal of emphasis on: creating extra value to grow that number of logins. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00225dcb0d2834a7441a9ebdeb95df501bb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225dcb0d2834a7441a9ebdeb95df501bb9\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m very pleased to speak in the finance and Government administration sector of the annual review debate. I want to kick off just by acknowledging the work of select committee members across the committee on the two committees which make up the sector. On my own Finance and Expenditure Committee can I acknowledge especially Fletcher Tabuteau, the deputy chair, and the senior Opposition member, who at the time of the annual review was the Hon Steven Joyce and who is now the Hon Amy Adams. It\u2019s a committee which deals with some crunchy issues, but does tend to work together as constructively as the times allow. Can I also acknowledge the other chair, of the Governance and Administration Committee, in this debate, Brett Hudson, and, as they say behind every successful man is a surprised woman, the deputy chair of that committee, Ginny Andersen, as well. These committees cover a very wide array of the Government\u2019s activities. The finance committee, of course, covers fiscal and economic policy and revenue; the Governance and Administration Committee covers a huge range of areas\u2014Parliament and legislative services, the Prime Minister and Cabinet, emergency management, and local government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EOne thing that stuck out for me when I read my way through the annual reviews is the outstanding work of New Zealand\u2019s public services and public servants. I don\u2019t think in this House we often enough acknowledge that. In fact, sometimes in this House we give them a good kicking, because it\u2019s good on the political side, but actually we\u2019re extraordinary blessed in this country by our non-corrupt, highly professional, good quality Public Service. One thing that absolutely stood out for me, and this was in the Department of Internal Affairs (DIA) annual review\u2014Mr Hudson made some reference to this, and it just spoke to me about the value of our public services\u2014was commentary in the report about the New Zealand passport. It\u2019s something that we take for granted. It allows us visa-free access to, I think, something like 140 countries around the world. Here\u2019s why: because we have a passport that\u2019s made up of 140 different plates. They\u2019re held in secure, vaulted sites. The passport itself undergoes major review every two years, along with very regular changes. There are over 100 checks of individual pieces of data before any passport is issued\u2014a highly complex system that sits behind something that New Zealanders draw enormous value out of, and that\u2019s incredibly important for this committee to take account of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWhat was noted in that annual review, and I think it\u2019s important for this Parliament to note, is that if we expect those public services for the benefit of New Zealanders, we do have to pay for them. It was noted in this annual review that the DIA has been working with basically flat revenue over the past eight years while it fulfils those very, very complex tasks. I think this Parliament needs to take note of that. If we want the good quality public services, we\u2019ve got to put the funding in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIn the time I have, the other area that I really want to draw attention to came through in the annual review of Treasury and the Financial Statements of the Government of New Zealand. This section of the annual review refers to the development of the Living Standards Framework. This is going to be, I think, one of the major directions that the Government takes over the next few years, and it was of significant interest to members on both sides of the committee. Treasury reported to us about their current work on the Living Standards Framework. It\u2019s not an entirely new concept; it\u2019s something Treasury has been developing for a number of years, and what it\u2019s about is about saying that the quality of life for New Zealanders is measured in more than just a measurement of whether the Government reaches a fiscal surplus or a deficit and in more than the single figure of GDP growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe quality of life for New Zealanders is about things like whether you can swim in your local river or stream, about whether our kids are growing up in poverty or not, and the way Treasury wants to measure these things is by looking at a broader range of capitals. Yes, they say\u2014and they confirmed this in the annual review\u2014it\u2019s still really important to look at the fiscal bottom lines. It\u2019s still really important to run a tight ship and to have surpluses, so that we can make the investments that we need and so that we\u2019re ready for the tough times. But that shouldn\u2019t be the only thing that we as Government and we as a Parliament look at. We should also be looking at the other capitals\u2014the fiscal capitals, the human capitals, the social capitals, and the natural capitals\u2014because, in the end, those are the things that actually make life worth living and make this a good place for all New Zealanders, which is what I know all members in this Parliament would want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo that was an area I just really wanted to draw attention to that is in the annual review of Treasury and the Financial Statements of the Government. It\u2019s a significant priority for the Government, but I know from conversations on the committee that members across that committee really want to understand the potential benefits of the Living Standards Framework and to make sure that it is an effective tool to make sure that the Government and the Parliament are delivering for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI think that the annual reviews that we have before us give real testament to the work of our Public Service and our public servants. They set out some of the key challenges for Government, going forward, and I look forward to the rest of this debate. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022d17caef181ca4c2286605611884ad77c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d17caef181ca4c2286605611884ad77c\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m pleased to take a call in this annual review debate, where we are once again approaching the annual reviews through the sector approach, which I must say for myself I have found as one of the good innovations of recent years, where we can group together votes with a similar theme and address them as one global debate. This House will know that I am a relative newcomer, at least this time round, to the Finance and Expenditure Committee, but this is a bit of a groundhog day for me. I was there nine years ago, and it\u2019s good to return to familiar territory and look at some of the reports we\u2019re seeing from Treasury and the like as we go through that annual review process. Of course, in terms of the change of Government, the period of review largely is the period that related to the National-led Government. Of course, it is also looking into what is termed current operations\u2014so the current year under the new coalition Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI think the clear take away, when you look at that period that Treasury have been reporting to us on in their annual review and covering\u2014it really is a story of a very strong economy, actually. I think all parties in this House would acknowledge that New Zealand has been served remarkably well by the strength of our economy in recent years, at a time when the international trends have been uncertainty, and some of our comparator countries have been seeing quite stagnant and lumpy growth, if at all, we have had an economy that has been held up under various monikers, one of which of course\u2014perhaps most well-known\u2014being a rock star economy. Actually, what we\u2019ve had and seen developed during that period\u2014and this is important when we look forward into the current year and years ahead\u2014is a very sustainable, solid rate of growth in the New Zealand economy that has allowed us, as respective Governments, to have the certainty of a reliable and actually growing revenue stream, and has allowed Governments to make choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe reason that\u2019s worth highlighting is because that cannot be taken for granted. One of Treasury\u2019s core functions that we test them on in the annual review process is their ability to properly study and understand and reflect the risks to that economic performance and the criticality of any small deviation in those growth tracks. One of the things that I\u2019ve been interested to read through in recent weeks has been the, sort of, weighty tome that Treasury has put out, their investment statement. My colleague Michael Wood, who has just resumed his seat, has spoken about the fact that this reflected the Living Standards Framework that Treasury are very interested in, and which I want to return to, but the investment statement itself is an interesting four-year document, which does go through and stress test or resilience test how well our economy would respond to various shocks. This is important, because when you\u2019re looking at the resilience of our economy to something like a major Wellington earthquake or foot and mouth disease, it really tells us that it wouldn\u2019t take much at all to considerably derail the projections that the new Government is working with. When you are looking, therefore, at hardwiring in significant increases in spending at the same time that reforms could seriously weaken that performance of our economy, I think New Zealand has real reason to be concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI do just want to touch on the Living Standards Framework, because Treasury did spend a bit of time talking about this in their examination before the committee. I don\u2019t disagree at all, and I don\u2019t think anyone on this side of the House would disagree, that of course there is more to a standard of living and the things that we value in this country than the books. No one would doubt that, and I think it would be a very brave politician or member of society who would suggest that. Of course we care about a far wider range of indicators than simply the financials. But the question for me in Treasury\u2019s role is the extent to which Treasury is the right agency to do that and whether in doing it they risk losing their focus on the criticality of understanding those very, very finely weighted calls at the margin around the impact on our economy. One of the concerns that I have that I would have put to Treasury, certainly given that opportunity, is the fact that we\u2019re hearing from public agencies throughout this annual review process that they simply have no idea how they\u2019re supposed to apply this Living Standards Framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a lovely sounding ideal, and of course New Zealanders all care about a range of indicators, but let\u2019s not lose sight of the fact that Treasury must remain our central and our centrally focused agency looking at the criticality of those economic settings, understanding how vitally important it is. Because let\u2019s not kid ourselves that anybody will have a good standard of living and a strong health system and a good education system and a clean environment and swimmable rivers and safe communities unless we have an economy that can pay for it. Anything that risks taking that focus away is of concern. So we\u2019ll watch it and we\u2019ll watch it with interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2ead6dff02244289311d0bc3d4e3093\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2ead6dff02244289311d0bc3d4e3093\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m pleased to take a very short call on this Appropriation (2016/17 Confirmation and Validation) Bill. As a person that\u2019s new to the select committee process and having to pore through some of the annual reports, especially that one of Treasury, it was an interesting process to go through. One thing that I\u2019ve learnt is that across the political spectrum we do have to work together; however, our lenses are a little bit different and the way that we see things is a little bit different. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ESo when Treasury came to us and they gave us the numbers and we heard the rhetoric about the strong, stable economy, we realised very quickly that the strong, stable economy that the Opposition talk of was actually achieved by not paying the bills. What happened was that because they failed to pay the bills at Middlemore Hospital, we\u2019ve had to actually sweep in and clean up the mess. Because they haven\u2019t stepped in and helped the teachers out and paid them, we have to step in and fix that up. Because they haven\u2019t paid the nurses, we have to step in and fix all of that up. Because we have unsafe roads around the country that have been neglected for the last nine years, we have had to step in and try and fix all of that up. So it\u2019s a happy job sitting there poring over the annual reviews and thinking about the kinds of things that we\u2019re going to do to turn the situation around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve decided to do is face up to the facts that our people out there are really struggling and put in place some things that are going to help out there. Right now there are big discussions happening on the Whakat\u0101ne side of the electorate, which I\u2019m sure you\u2019re very familiar with, about the homelessness problem. It\u2019s because the Opposition, when they were in Government, didn\u2019t pay the bills when it came to housing. They didn\u2019t build any houses, and as a result we\u2019ve got a homelessness problem in places like Whakat\u0101ne and just starting to burgeon in small towns like \u014Cp\u014Dtiki as well. In Rotorua, we\u2019re still facing that homelessness crisis, and again it\u2019s up to us to fix that up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to our families, who are the central operational unit of the country, we\u2019ve also had to dip deep into our pockets too and invest $5.5 billion. That is all with the aim of lifting the income of 384,000 families, of which a very certain percentage are M\u0101ori, and they will be lifted out of their situations due to some good decision-making by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ELet me also talk about the provincial growth fund as well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d60fd90a579e476caf10ec053b731544\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just interrupt the member. He has actually had almost three minutes. At some stage during this, he has to refer to the period under review\u2014right?\u2014not just gloss over it and talk about the future. I refer you to Speaker\u2019s ruling 131/3. You do actually have to talk about the review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddef4799ad234877890ffcfb72b373cd\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that\u2014thank you for that, Madam Chair. Let\u2019s dig down into it then. Let\u2019s get into what was previously mentioned about the way that we\u2019re going to be looking at our economy and we\u2019re going to move away from things like GDP growth as just being the sole indicator. We\u2019re going to be looking at these well-being budgets, which the previous speaker, Amy Adams, identified as being a bit airy-fairy, not really knowing what that\u2019s all about. But, in fact, what it\u2019s doing and what it is going to be doing, which is what we\u2019ve talked about in our annual reviews, is we\u2019re moving to a situation where we\u2019re not just talking about the dollars and cents; we\u2019re actually talking about the well-being of the community. That is how Treasury, going forward, is going to be reporting back in its annual Budget and its annual reporting statements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThis Government has also, through the annual review process, highlighted the fact that we have set up this Tax Working Group. That\u2019s been a very contentious issue out there in the public, but actually the Tax Working Group is something that we\u2019ve talked about, along with our Budget responsibility rules too. The Budget responsibility rules are something that we\u2019ve talked about at great length, and it\u2019s something that we\u2019ve put in place to make sure that when Treasury is reporting back, we\u2019ve got a framework to work towards. What I managed to do, through sitting through things like the Financial Stability Report and the annual review from Treasury, was just ascertain a general picture of what has been done and what we are going to be doing, looking into the future. It was a very hard process at times, sitting there listening to officials and poring over numbers, especially when you\u2019re not an accountant or a financial adviser. Times like that can be a little bit rough, but we made it through, and I\u2019m happy to stand and make a contribution on this particular bill. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002235e648ca5ca140c28b2f9173f73f0a29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235e648ca5ca140c28b2f9173f73f0a29\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call in this debate and to pick up some of the themes that we\u2019ve heard this afternoon around the matters covered by this theme in the finance and Government administration sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to particularly pick up the comments of Amy Adams around what we learnt in this process about the strength of the New Zealand economy, and that was delivered through the financial statements that are covered by this section, and also the review of Treasury. The former Minister is correct when she says that there are some high-level indicators that were delivered to us that looked good. We had growth rates that were looking around 3 to 3.5 percent, GDP growth of that rate. Indeed, many countries in the world would look at that with some envy\u2014some solid statistics around the decline in unemployment\u2014but what Amy Adams said says it all about that period of time, because, for her, that\u2019s declaring success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENow, the fact is that, at the same time that those growth rates were occurring, the OECD said we had the worst homelessness in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211002d45436440b4b3596c2fa0afa439\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240a01d8780b1470c9b1d46098deb75ed\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Our rivers became more and more polluted, Dr Smith; labour productivity was almost flat; per capita GDP growth never rose above 1 percent during that period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo, actually, when we decide that a country is a success, we can\u2019t just look at one indicator like that. On this side of the Chamber, we are not satisfied by saying \u201CWe\u2019ve managed to run a surplus.\u201D, if we haven\u2019t paid the bills. If we haven\u2019t actually done the things that are required to make sure our public services are operating at the level that New Zealanders not only need but deserve, then that is not success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo when we take a look at the Government\u2019s financial statements, it\u2019s very easy to look at them and say, \u201CThis is a Government that has led the economy well.\u201D Well, actually, what those financial statements say about the last Government is that they relied upon population growth and people selling houses to one another as an economic strategy to prop up those GDP numbers. That is not sustainable. What we need are long-term investments in lifting the productivity, sustainability, and inclusivity of our economy, and we will only do that if we actually take a longer-term view about what should happen in our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI noted that Amy Adams talked about the idea of this rock star economy that the last Government had left us. Well, I used to be the manager of a couple of bands when I was at university, and it looks a whole lot more like a roadie economy to me than a rock star economy, because, actually, for a lot of people, it\u2019s a hand to mouth existence. Working people in New Zealand did not receive the benefits of that growth rate that we saw then, and that happens when people are not included in the decision-making process, and not included in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022613680c61894416592bf457dac81658b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Of course they were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c86f4210199b445eae9bbaa650bb5c6f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith says, \u201COf course they were.\u201D How can that be, Dr Smith, when labour\u2019s share of the economy is among the lowest that it\u2019s ever been? Working people did not benefit from the economic growth that occurred. It did not happen, and Dr Smith can continue to deny it, but he won\u2019t get far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s why this Government is focused on developing the Living Standards Framework approach, and I absolutely acknowledge that work has been under way in Treasury for some time, but what we have decided to do is make it core to our Budgets. I am very proud of the fact that Budget 2019 will be New Zealand\u2019s, and possibly the world\u2019s, first well-being Budget, where we actually take that Living Standards Framework and we say we will measure our success on the basis of not just GDP growth\u2014and we will continue to measure that\u2014but also the health of our environment; how our people are going; what skills and knowledge do they have; are they well; are they actually safe and secure; our social capital; the strength of our communities, not just the rampant individualism of the last Government but actually understanding the way in which a community works\u2014these are important indicators of our success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThese are important indicators of our success, our human capital\u2014how are our people going getting the skills and the knowledge that they need to succeed in a rapidly changing world of work. So this Government will actually take the Living Standards Framework and make that into a real part of how we decide where our spending goes and how we measure our success. And at that point, not only will we have a prosperous economy but we\u2019ll have one where people get a fair share in that prosperity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff59a22244414805a3da5de5e2a897fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff59a22244414805a3da5de5e2a897fc\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I do want to bring my brief contribution back to the actual purpose of the debate, which is the annual reviews of 2016/17.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EIf I could start by just giving a bit of advice to the member Tamati Coffey, who acknowledged that he\u2019s a freshman in this place, and I accept that. But can I tell him, having studied many democracies around the world, the scrutiny and the accountability and the way any Government books are presented are as good in this country as anywhere else in the world. There is not a chance to hide the real position of any Government, and, therefore, I think it is doubtful whether the Government\u2019s position over the last 24 hours of trying to run this sort of agenda and presentation prior to their Budget\u2014that, in actual fact, things have not been left the way they really are\u2014will not ride with New Zealand people. They know the scrutiny that it has received by the fiscal disciplines imposed by the Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1994 and they will not be fooled by the Government\u2019s attempt to reposition itself as it delivers its first Budget, because, of course, we all know it is out of resource because it spent too much money delivering free education to first-year students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ECan I make some specific comments, first of all, on page 315, Parliamentary Service. I note that the select committee, the Governance and Administration Committee, as it is now called, did not call Parliamentary Service before it. I think it should have done. I think there is an issue there whereby the Government needs to take note of the additional cost that is going to be imposed on this Government by Mr Peters\u2019 refusal to carry on with the plans accepted by every other political party in the last Parliament to build a new building out the back. We are now committed to go back to the landlord of Bowen House after negotiating our way out of that particular lease. It will cost, and it will cost a lot of money, and I implore the Governance and Administration Committee to have a look at that next time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe next one I wanted to refer to was Animal Control Products, page 566. This comes before the Primary Production Committee. I was subbed on to that on that particular day, not knowing that that would be the particular company that would come forward. But as the report in these documents said, it is a company that has performed exceptionally well in a difficult area\u2014and I want to take this opportunity of recording this in the Chamber\u2014under the chairmanship of Terrence Murdoch, under the general manager William\u2014and I\u2019ve forgotten his surname, I must admit. But they have done an exceptional job in what is a difficult area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe next one I want to mention is Crown Irrigation Investments Ltd, page 573, and the contribution from Grant Robertson saying they cut out all further support of irrigation in this country because it was leading to environmental damage. Have a look at the report and have a look\u2014there it is mentioned that, in actual fact, a project like Central Plains Water has delivered better environmental outcomes because we now have a substantial area of storage. We\u2019re not drawing out of wells that were unsustainable, and all of those people who have received irrigation water onto their properties are having to file strict environmental plans. The environmental outcomes are greatly improved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ECan I then take note of the Office of the Ombudsman, page 309, and take this opportunity of lending my congratulations to Peter Boshier as the Chief Ombudsman for the job he\u2019s done in getting hold of a huge backlog of complaints. That office is performing substantially better than it was, and that is noted in the reports here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EFinally, can I talk briefly of the one that has no mention at all, and that is, of course, the provincial growth fund of the Hon Shane Jones. I met the chairman this morning. I met the chairman of the primary growth fund this morning as I was coming up. I told him it was a slush fund. He told me I shouldn\u2019t refer to it as such. I told him I would continue, for as long as I\u2019m in Opposition, labelling it as it truly is. It is nothing but a slush fund, and I can tell Mr Shane Jones, as he goes about giving money out to people he\u2019s been advised not to give money to, that the people of New Zealand will not be fooled. They will not be fooled. This is their taxpayer money being splashed around in a vain attempt to save New Zealand First. It\u2019s not going to work. New Zealanders are far brighter than that, and this slush fund will be shown up for what it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd57678750c743a3b9c31d7f95daca05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd57678750c743a3b9c31d7f95daca05\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I felt it encumbant to pick up at this particular point, starting off with the comments of the previous speaker, the Rt Hon David Carter, because I feel that I ought to, given that it has been brought into this debate, despite the fact that it is actually not part of the period of time being reviewed. But because it was brought into the debate by the previous speaker, actually, it is important to point out that the provincial growth fund that the Hon Shane Jones is responsible for is one of the most important tools that this Government has at its disposal to ensure the redevelopment and regeneration in the regions in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAs we seek to transition to a low-carbon economy, I want to point out that last week, the Hon Shane Jones was up in the Taranaki, putting in place a number of investments to help that region transition to a low-carbon economy. That is not a slush fund. That is the single-greatest investment in our regions in the last generation, and I just wanted to make that point to the previous speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to refer to some of the comments made earlier by the Hon Amy Adams. She referred to having left the economy in a strong state. She referred to an annual GDP growth rate of around 3 percent and a fiscal surplus of $1.5 billion, and then appealed to Treasury that it should not be engaging in any more work on the Living Standards Framework but, rather, to retain a narrow focus on a very few set of economic indicators and not to take account of the wider picture of what was going on in the New Zealand economy, in the environment, and in society. It is exactly that kind of thinking that has led to the parlous state of so much of our environment and our social deficit that this new Government is being presented with, and that is why\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a2b98aba67942e6870ad6deb076c873\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Who passed the environment reporting Act? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffd6597a5c564d72970af38692cf0a02\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: Given that Mr Smith is making an intervention about environmental reporting, Mr Smith, when I received that report, I went through it and said, \u201CWell, this is very interesting information. Why is there, for example, nothing in here about waste? Surely, we have data about waste?\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b671e1b44914cca9a4c6fd765669dd9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Can we come back to the sector, please? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022681dc553df354a81aa0b4e438a2da84d\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: We may. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a1e5f9227894a56bd471e2dee304e12\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022772f8e4cb25142cbbd2195c414a8d002\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: I was merely responding to an intervention from the Opposition. I shall return to the finance and administration review debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EMy point was that the Hon Amy Adams was suggesting that Treasury should retain a narrow focus on a few set of economic indicators and not confuse itself with this airy-fairy social and environmental stuff that she seems to think is what the Living Standards Framework is all about. It is exactly that narrow kind of thinking that has led to the parlous state of our environment and a number of our key social areas today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EOnly the other day, the Sydney Morning Herald reported that British Petroleum had suggested that an oil spill would be a great boon to regional economies in Western Australia if there was an oil spill as a result of its offshore activities, in a report in 2016, because of the amount of money that would have to go into the local economy to manage the clean-up costs. That is the kind of thinking that just focusing on GDP leads you to, because all GDP is is a measure of throughput. That\u2019s all it is. It\u2019s like saying that the point of life is blood, right\u2014that the point of life, the reason for being, the reason for existence is to have blood flowing through your veins\u2014because that\u2019s what GDP is. It\u2019s just throughput. It accounts for things that are bad, like oil spills, as well as things that are good. It makes no distinction between those two things. That is why it is important that at the centre of our economic thinking, we have a much more nuanced, a much more comprehensive, much more sophisticated way of looking at the economy\u2014not as a narrow focus on just gross domestic product, but on a broader set of indicators that actually say what is actually going on here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAs the Associate Minister of Finance with the specific delegation for that project\u2014for developing that set of measures\u2014I am delighted to be able to pick up on the work that Treasury was speaking about at the review in front of select committee in recent weeks, because it is vitally important to this country\u2019s future. It\u2019s important because it gives us an early warning sign that says, \u201CActually, you might want to pay attention now to some things. Otherwise, you will be trying to clean up our rivers in 20 years\u2019 time.\u201D So I just wanted to make those points, because I think it is important in this debate not to lose sight of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u00222cfe56cf803a478eb64827519281b356\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cfe56cf803a478eb64827519281b356\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. Thank you for this opportunity to speak to this appropriations contribution this afternoon. I too would like to address some of the contributions made by the members opposite this afternoon and, first of all, and rightly so, to address the statements by the Hon Amy Adams. She spoke about handing over a rock star economy. She spoke about how, at the time, GDP was fantastic and, yes, and on the surface, 3 percent looks good. She spoke about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d66f264ecd0a4b279fbea315371fc5aa\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Big surplus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e3cb550e6a849d89550a18328439a6f\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014wages and employment. Well, actually, Dr Nick Smith has spoken about employment. He spoke about the numbers, but what he\u2019s failed to mention is the low wage rates of the time and the fact that people in our communities were not being able to share in the success of a few. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo what did that party do at the time? Well, they actually offered up tax cuts, and they delivered tax cuts\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e39ee3a00c65458ba09ec2866c1130d6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: For the lowest band.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226304124de93f42278e77e1bef5410187\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: No, Mr Nick Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b11271c5cb34a5ca7a0e3a2bf847345\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It was for the lowest band.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef975d06911949c2a4633711126f22a8\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: No, not at all. At the time, they made a decision to offer tax cuts when they knew that what we really needed was real spending in infrastructure, in the people of New Zealand, in the health sector, in the education sector\u2014in meaningful investment in the people of New Zealand. Unfortunately, what we\u2019re seeing now, Dr Nick Smith, is evidence of the choices that you deliberately\u2014forgive me, Madam Chair\u2014that that party deliberately made for superficial numbers on a page which spoke about surpluses. Those were the choices that party made to sell to the New Zealand public\u2014numbers on a page.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EWhat we knew at the time, and what New Zealand First, particularly, at this time said, in contrast to the appropriations that we\u2019re looking at and debating this afternoon\u2014in complete contrast to that\u2014we said at the time that those surpluses were empty and meaningless. The Prime Minister now, in the last few days, has said in her own words\u2014forgive me if I misquote, but an approximation\u2014\u201CWe knew it was bad at the time, but we didn\u2019t quite know how bad it was.\u201D That\u2019s what we\u2019re dealing with now, Dr Nick Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe Hon Amy Adams spoke about well-being, and then she kind of insinuated that \u201CBe careful about how you look at well-being. If you look at the well-being of the people, you might somehow stuff up the books.\u201D What? You know, that party was the one who stuffed up the books and who didn\u2019t even want to look at the well-being of the people of New Zealand. They just wanted to sell numbers on a page\u2014those surpluses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bfc3800553f4879b28e5068d37e51de\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Just rubbish; we care about jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e98cbcb4fce849c9982b45d03622af6f\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Nick Smith adamantly stood up in front of the New Zealand public and spoke about the quality of the New Zealand water and the rivers and the lakes that we swim in. He told us how fantastic that was, and yet\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ad7f967de93446f8b9dd98febc0e1ed\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I\u2019ve already cautioned one member about straying from the topic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6d55cea4e394c90ae49d9cd9cbf2179\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df57ff2ae1744096b66ae202e6cfac2b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227416f14fe80b42ffb1a6b43d4dc2c50e\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise, Madam Chair. I obviously didn\u2019t hear you, in my furore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4326d54b91c4b0aa58c562d0a8c84c8\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Fury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da303555d3bc4bf0a8b5265fee59f40f\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Fury. Ha, ha! Well, in that case, I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EPerhaps I\u2019ll just take this opportunity to speak to one of the examples of the appropriations, and Solid Energy comes to mind. One of the lines in the report spoke about\u2014forgive me, but I think it was a $69 million write-off in these reports based on, essentially, the interference and the know-it-all nature of some of those members across the House. They thought they knew better. They thought they knew how to run a Government operation. And then, because of that interference, we found it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022090ab6c9a36c40fc9cd15efa665c25ad\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We have actually already discussed that sector. Solid Energy is not within this particular finance and Government administration sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022858818131cc54746ab9891006177e13d\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: So instead then, let me speak\u2014oh, I\u2019ve only got eight seconds left. I would\u2019ve loved the opportunity to attack Dr Nick Smith some more, but life\u2019s like that. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00224dca82214f6645c898146451a25754d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dca82214f6645c898146451a25754d1\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, it\u2019s a great pleasure to take a short call in the opportunity to review the finance and Government administration sector. It\u2019s a new scene for me; I\u2019m new on this committee and in this part of the administration of the country, and I think it\u2019s a very exciting place to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI just want to comment very briefly on the previous speaker, Fletcher Tabuteau, who, clearly, from a Rangit\u012Bkei perspective\u2014they would have had no idea what he was talking about. We\u2019re pretty basic people in the Rangit\u012Bkei and we believe in pretty basic things. I want to go to a couple of factors that will prove that. I just want to talk briefly about the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation, and it\u2019s probably a topic that\u2019s dear to the heart of people of my age, actually\u2014not necessarily this superannuation fund, but superannuation funds are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI just wanted to talk about what happens in the course of, I guess, a time span in superannuation. I can assure the members of this House that superannuation funds don\u2019t always make money. In my earlier life, I was the chairman of the superannuation fund of quite a big New Zealand company, and it was very difficult going to tell the recipients of that superannuation that they were no longer going to receive the money they thought they were going to receive on retirement, because the economy of this country wasn\u2019t performing well. So, from a superannuation fund perspective, it\u2019s not only important that our economy performs well; it\u2019s important that the international economy performs well. It\u2019s also important that in the developing of the criteria that operate those superannuation funds\u2014in other words, in this case, they have a responsible investment criteria\u2014it\u2019s important that they\u2019re adhered to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EOne of the mysteries of that, of course, for the average New Zealander, is that it causes many of our investments, not only superannuation, to go offshore, because we have to have a balanced investment portfolio. One of the challenges for us as a country is that we need to send a fair proportion of that offshore to protect those people who\u2019ve invested in it. So that\u2019s the superannuation issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI want to talk briefly about the Inland Revenue Department, too, because we\u2019re obviously looking at reviewing the way New Zealand operates its tax system. It\u2019s gone through a Business Transformation programme in recent times. Like every Government department, it\u2019s been challenged by what I think is a very big challenge, particularly for rural New Zealand, and that\u2019s around the adoption of technology and the way we provide our Government services. I think that will be challenging for some years to come as we get through developing better systems\u2014and also get through that age bracket, because people like myself are sometimes challenged by the use of technology. We need to get through that, and we will get through it in due course, but it will take some time, so I urge people like the Inland Revenue Department to have tolerance for that sort of thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to briefly mention about Inland Revenue is that I think it\u2019s essential that we retain a simple tax system in New Zealand. It\u2019s the absolute\u2014because we\u2019re such a small country, we have got such a small range of taxpayers. Whatever we do with the tax system it\u2019s got to remain simple, because anything other than that will create huge cost for business, huge cost for the Government, and huge cost for Inland Revenue unravelling the schemes and other things that are put in place to deal with the tax system. So whatever happens in the future, I urge simplicity in this area. It\u2019s absolutely essential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI just want to move on now to the review of Treasury, and some of the issues that Treasury raised. I\u2019ve always had difficulty with the way Government values their assets. I think if you look at KiwiRail, it\u2019s a hugely challenging thing for anyone to value. It\u2019s a hugely challenging thing for us to run as a country, and I think it\u2019s essential that in the future running of the likes of KiwiRail, we\u2019re cautious, and we put it in places where it will get the best bang for our dollar as a country. I\u2019m not sure we\u2019re always doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to briefly touch on that came out of the Treasury review was the estimate that Auckland Transport is some $4 billion to $6 billion short of cash. I thought it was somewhat ironic that $5 billion is being plucked out of provincial New Zealand in the transport review and put into urban transport\u2014pretty much the same figure that Treasury felt Auckland Transport was short of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo that is also, I think, pretty challenging for us as a country, and I think it\u2019s particularly challenging for provincial New Zealand, because I heard the Hon Shane Jones earlier in this debate talking about getting our exports to the port. The roads of national significance were, of course, all about getting our exports to the port, and for anyone who lives in the Rangit\u012Bkei or Manawat\u016B area, just see the massive transformation that\u2019s taken place as a result of the Kapiti Expressway, will take place as a result of Transmission Gully being finished, and will certainly take place as a result of the \u014Ctaki to north of Levin bypass. It makes a massive difference to our ability to get our exports to port and to the market very quickly. That\u2019s one of the keys to any good Government policy, and I urge us to continue on with those projects in provincial New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb0776a326674e5db01ca2cb328e86bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb0776a326674e5db01ca2cb328e86bc\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for the opportunity. While I\u2019m new to the Finance and Expenditure Committee, I do wish to comment and talk actually about the review rather than too much of the politics that we\u2019ve heard, particularly from the New Zealand First MPs this afternoon. While they\u2019re interesting and humorous, I\u2019m not sure they actually added a lot to the debate. If you actually look at the fiscal position that was reported on 30 June 2017, it shows an improved Budget surplus of $4.1 billion, which was up $1.8 billion from the previous year. On anybody\u2019s count, that is a wonderful result in terms of how the Government has run the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003ENow, I accept there are always challenges\u2014I accept that. But, equally, at the same time, 100,000 new jobs were created in New Zealand. That is all a sign of a prosperous and forward-moving economy. And, at the same time, the Government, which doesn\u2019t always get the credit for things like this, was looking at things like the Living Standards Framework, M\u0101ori living standards, social housing reform programmes\u2014all things that were being worked on, which, actually, the current Government seems to forget about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bbf4164c9aa449aa8483e0aa9c48b66\u0022\u003EHon Dr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Nine long years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224909083ead194e3f9152bbfd8798955d\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE\u003C/span\u003E: In your world, it might have been nine long years, but until the economy was sorted, we didn\u2019t have a chance of sorting these things out. And I take you to the point where we looked at Auckland Transport as part of the review, and the Auckland funding issues for transport. And it\u2019s actually really germane that, today, we had a bit of a debate in question time about Auckland Transport, because it was reported to the select committee that Auckland Transport needs between $4 billion and $6 billion more than originally agreed between the Government and the Auckland Council, and that regional fuel taxes and other things need to be looked at. It also said that the Auckland Council is at a debt ceiling. So it\u2019s actually little wonder that this current Government is taking $5 billion off regional New Zealand and investing most of that in Auckland, because, actually, there\u2019s not many other ways of doing that. I\u2019ll come back to the Hon Shane Jones, because he\u2019s going around the country\u2014and I\u2019m very grateful for parts of it\u2014spending $3 billion, but he\u2019s doing that only because there was a strong New Zealand economy under the National Government, which had the books in such a shape that they could make such choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI also want to speak, as Mr McKelvie did previously to me, on Inland Revenue, which also reported to the select committee. I also want to implore and ask the Minister of Revenue to continue a lot of the work, because I think most of the work that\u2019s been done by Inland Revenue is actually in the transformational programme, is actually really value-add for New Zealanders. We were presented with the fact that 85 percent of all business customers now file online as an example, and that\u2019s an increase of 9 percent from the previous year. I think significant progress has been made and continues to be made. Even for somebody that wants to question the numbers, Inland Revenue has underspent its budget over the last five years. It had $376 million to spend and has spent only $286 million; so that\u2019s about $100 million up its sleeve, for want of a better word. I think that money needs to continue to be appropriated to this Business Transformation programme because, actually, as we move with technology, more and more people are going to file things online and it\u2019s important they be able to do it from their home base.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EMr McKelvie spoke before, in the select committee, that one of the concerns that were expressed was about connectivity with electronic transactions, and I think that is a future thing that needs to be looked at to make sure that we don\u2019t disadvantage people in New Zealand by their lack of access to the internet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIf I go back to what we\u2019ve reported on, we have, in summary, a very strong set of Government accounts. We have international debt well under control. We do have some concerns with private sector debt, and this is reported to the select committee. So, in the select committee, the review announced\u2014and I concur with this\u2014that there is actually a lot of private sector debt, particularly in housing. If the world economy was to change and interest rates were to go up substantially, that would cause quite a lot of pain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003ESo, actually, as the Government moves forward with its programme and it talks about wanting to invest in infrastructure, it always requires a very strong, well-performing economy that is run in a disciplined way. It gives people choices. This Government has inherited the choices that were made by National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00225ccfa0cb4b264e928a1cf3f1419875f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ccfa0cb4b264e928a1cf3f1419875f2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the Hon Jacqui\u2014Dean. I\u2019m so sorry, Jacqui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8620803d6db4794bb2fc85e225b6bce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8620803d6db4794bb2fc85e225b6bce\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair\u2014it\u2019s fine. I want to make a few comments, thanks very much, about the Department of Internal Affairs. I wasn\u2019t represented on the committee at the time of the financial review, so I\u2019m really going off the papers here. But I do have a strong interest in one or two of the items that were subject to the financial review\u2014back in February, I think it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I\u2019ve worked with the Department of Internal Affairs off and on, and have done for the time I\u2019ve been in Parliament, and I was interested to read in the report that several recommendations were made, through the Office of the Auditor-General, around recommendations for improvement, including that the Department of Internal Affairs implement its planned system for recording and monitoring of passport fraud. It\u2019s pretty dry, when you do read it in the papers, that comment, but it\u2019s increasingly important to us as a sovereign State, New Zealand, that we do have secure borders. I am mindful that the previous Government put an additional $14.5 million, I think it was, for the Department of Internal Affairs in the change from a five-yearly to 10-yearly passport duration period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ETogether with adding inconvenience for New Zealanders and others travelling across our borders with a New Zealand passport, it also invested significantly in 2015 and 2016 in enhancing passport security. I think that this Government should monitor, as has the select committee, the performance of the Department of Internal Affairs, to ensure that it does in fact implement its system for recording and monitoring of passport fraud. So that will be a red flag for me, for the financial review for next year. I think it\u2019s an important issue for us in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EIt was also recommended by the Office of the Auditor-General that it refine its measures to report its performance against its strategic objectives. Well, this is Governance 101, isn\u2019t it? Surely the Department of Internal Affairs should be very mindful of its strategic objectives. I would expect this Government, and certainly the Governance and Administration Committee, will be watching this closely in the next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI want now to turn to a couple of other issues: the uptake and development of RealMe, which is an online secure identity verification. Under our Government, RealMe came to be and we were continuing with the roll-out. My plea to this Government is that they do not take their eye off the further implementation of RealMe, because, just like the monitoring and enhancement of passport security, identity verification on an online platform for dealing with Government is not only very important for individuals, but also for small businesses who make up 97 percent of New Zealand business. So RealMe as an identity verification system is very important for the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EFinally, Madam Chair, I want to make a few comments around Fire and Emergency New Zealand\u2014formerly the Fire Service Commission\u2014and make a plea to the Minister to watch closely the implementation of the new Fire and Emergency New Zealand. There are more than 13,000 people involved in Fire and Emergency New Zealand all around New Zealand, into its furthest corners\u2014no doubt, the Chatham Islands included. Those people are firefighters but also volunteers\u2014community volunteers. As the representative of a rural constituency, where there are fire stations in every little town and corner of that constituency, and indeed all around New Zealand, I know it\u2019s those volunteers who are important to community cohesion. They\u2019ve got to be ready to respond in a disaster. They\u2019ve got to be ready to get out on the roads and increasingly deal with what they find, as their job. I plead with the Government to make sure that this new structure around Fire and Emergency New Zealand is rolled out properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb17f3e83cfb4018ab5972de64d178ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb17f3e83cfb4018ab5972de64d178ea\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Like my colleague who is just taking her seat, Jacqui Dean, I\u2019d also like to reflect on a couple of elements of the Department of Internal Affairs (DIA), before moving on. In my first contribution, I talked exclusively about the Department of Internal Affairs and I finished up by talking a little bit, too, about RealMe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EOne of the challenges we\u2019ve seen in this area consistently over the years is uptake in the verified RealMe accounts, which lags significantly behind projections, and I\u2019ll move on to that. Before moving on to that challenge, I\u2019d just like to reiterate for members of the Committee and the public that as we move more and more into looking to do transactions with Government via the internet, to make it easier for citizens to gain access to Government services from the convenience of how they live, work, and play, then not only how we deliver the services up to those citizens but how we enable them to access, through the security models and log-ins, into Government is critically important. It was also seen with some importance at the end of the last Parliament, as we passed the Electronic Interactions Reform Bill. Actually, I think we might have done the third reading at the beginning of this term. That was actually about taking steps too\u2014about presenting more of those services electronically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EIn order to access them, one has to be able to prove to the service provider\u2014in this case the Government\u2014that the person trying to access is indeed who they say they are. RealMe is a system that Government has been using for some years now to do that. It comes in a couple of forms. In its most vanilla form, for information-only general sort of access, it gets a huge amount of use. Around 77 million log-ins have been recorded over the years for those more informational purposes. That\u2019s because it is a less onerous way to register. You simply put in your details online and you can access information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EBut when it comes to accessing more private information and services, a verified log-in is required and that does require some actions on behalf of the citizen, to validate who they say they are. It started off with having to go to a New Zealand Post outlet, having your photo taken, and getting validated through their system. Pleasingly, it has moved ahead a little over the years since. But still, I think, it is an area which DIA would be well advised to spend a lot of effort in looking to streamline further, because there are only 400,000 validated RealMe accounts today and the projections say there should be about 1.4 million of them. So we\u2019re well behind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, Government being Government, one way it has to encourage the uptake of that sort of an account is to mandate it. Government has the power of compulsion, and the Government could simply restrict access to these services unless users got an account of that nature, and thereby force them into doing so. Well, I\u2019d counsel the Government and the Department of Internal Affairs not to go down that track. As soon as you have what amounts to a monopoly provider suddenly using powers of compulsion to force people to do things their way, they lose, they break, the relationship between supplier and customer. They lose the sense of what it is to provide their service to the person that consumes it. Call them a citizen, call them a constituent, or call them a customer, it is important that Government, not just DIA, always recognises that the services we are providing electronically or otherwise are for the consumption of a citizen, a constituent, a customer. We don\u2019t want to operate in a way like a monopoly, where we break the relationship between gearing our services to their needs and not just forcing them to operate in our model.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, fortunately, there were some questions to DIA around the time of the annual review, as well as the conversation, obviously, in select committee. I\u2019m pleased to be able to report to the House that the Government Chief Digital Officer was quite clear that seeking to mandate compulsory use of services is not their aim, but it is something which we as a Parliament, and certainly we as a select committee, should remain vigilant about. That is a road to poorer service, poorer connection to our constituents, and poorer outcomes. If we simply use the power of compulsion through law\u2014that, obviously, Parliament has the power to do\u2014we will actually deliver worse outcomes for our citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThe Department of Internal Affairs, as I noted, do a phenomenal job given the constraints of the budgets they have. One of the things the committee did was take a tour of He Tohu and see our founding documents on display. It is a remarkably Kiwi thing that we store them inside the front door of our building. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4d46babce6c4148bd2b4f16476d7310\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4d46babce6c4148bd2b4f16476d7310\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you. I would like to speak on the Finance and Government Administration Sector of the appropriation bill. The Government accounts show that in eight months to the end of February, the Government surplus is $500 million above forecast. This highlights the work the previous National Government did in the past nine years. After nine years, the National-led Government left a very sound economy behind, and also we left a very sound fiscal position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThis did not come easily, because when National came to power in 2008, we experienced the global financial crisis, and then, later on, the Canterbury earthquakes, and then, later on, the Kaik\u014Dura earthquakes in 2016. I touch upon the Kaik\u014Dura earthquakes because that was in the financial year that we are looking at. A number of Government agencies were affected during the earthquakes, but it turned out that these agencies, or our public services, were very strong and resilient. They came up strongly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ETake Statistics New Zealand as an example. There was significant damage to the Statistics New Zealand Wellington headquarters, and also a shutdown\u2014a shutdown\u2014of their data centre. However, their backup system\u2014their backup system\u2014worked as planned and they quickly secured new and safe office accommodation. So this is just one of many agencies that experienced difficulties, but they were able to emerge strong and also to prove to be very resilient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo this, as I said, did not come very easily. The previous National-led Government focused on the economy. Take tourism, for example\u2014tourism came up very, very strongly. It became, later on, perhaps the largest exporter for New Zealand. So this is, again, an example of how the National-led Government managed our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThe current coalition Government tries to portray a picture that the previous National-led Government under-invested in the public sectors. They were claiming, for example, that district health boards (DHBs) were under-invested\u2014lots of deficits. Interestingly, the Hon Michael Woodhouse today wanted to table a table basically to demonstrate the deficits from the year 2000 to the year 2017. That was declined by the coalition Government. That was interesting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EI would like to use this as an example to show some facts: the National-led Government did very well. While there is some\u2014well, not misinformation, but some not accurate descriptions of the situation under the National-led Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EFrom the year 2000 to the year 2008, under Labour, the combined DHB deficit was $601,220\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223474e87bbc654717ab8b1f042fcb6294\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c272f5e4c09c44b18ec889a5a52f6dc0\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG\u003C/span\u003E: Right? A million\u2014sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fda9e2878ba4d12953124d815db989b\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: $601 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222245ea796ce64176abf42cedebbebcbf\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, sorry. And then under the National-led Government\u2014eight years under the National-led Government\u2014the deficit is even smaller than\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220569458b42e64a069fb7ed62aa398223\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Could I just bring the member back to the period we\u2019re discussing, and also to look at the agencies that were reviewed. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ab718fc5aa64785bb2433f17f932a45\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I just use this as an example to demonstrate that we need to bring Labour\u2019s description into perspective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EFinally, I will say that Statistics New Zealand needs to be independent. Late last year, the coalition Government wanted to review the measures of unemployment, but it\u2019s important for us to understand that a Government Statistician needs to be independent. I\u2019m quite pleased to see that in the committee hearing, Statistics New Zealand maintained that it will remain independent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff2d481509ff4ca096acd8986678a558\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff2d481509ff4ca096acd8986678a558\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I rise to take another call in this appropriation debate. I want to talk briefly on Fire and Emergency New Zealand (FENZ). It\u2019s a very, very important part of the work that the Governance and Administration Committee was doing in this particular piece of work, but also as a member who sat on that committee for most of the previous term. I was present when the Minister of the time introduced the bill to talk about the bringing together of our urban and rural fire services and the planning around the transition for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EIt was a key topic of conversation for the chair, chief executive, and team at this annual review hearing because it was highlighted and crystallised somewhat last year during that rather large rural fire in Christchurch. It was quite poignant, because, at the time, the services knew they would be coming together, but they weren\u2019t at that time, and, of course, there was a very tragic loss of life in the fighting of that fire. While no one would suggest nor claim that the two services being separate was in any way directly linked to that tragic unfolding of events, without question we were informed that one of the key items that they learnt from the review of that incident and the way it was addressed was that the communications between the emergency services remained a challenge for the effective and efficient fighting of that particular fire. It couldn\u2019t be changed at the time, but at the time, because our urban and rural fire services were formed under different command and control and weren\u2019t generally training and working together, that did hinder the absolute effectiveness of the way that they could respond to that emergency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EOf course, that made it even more relevant and poignant to question them about how the transition has been proceeding. It is a staged transition\u2014it is never going to be a Pantene overnight thing\u2014but the first stages are complete. They have reported that the two bodies, if you like, have embraced the idea that they are coming together. One area that was dear to the heart of rural firefighters in particular was that they had amassed, over the years, some very large pools of assets that had been bequeathed or otherwise donated to urban fire units from trusts and families who had particular interests in the area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThere was real concern, ahead of the transition, about how those assets would be treated, and, indeed, if they would, in a sense, be lost to those communities. Well, FENZ had assured us at the time\u2014under a select committee interrogation of the bill\u2014that that wouldn\u2019t happen, and have further reassured us, as the transition has been progressing, that they are indeed responding with exactly that in mind. The rural asset pool remains untouched and is still in use and available so that the very generous donations those units have received over the years are still there to be used in those sorts of emergencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EBut also, now, because of the coming together of the two command and control systems, we\u2019re going to see a better integration of firefighters and emergency responders able to share the knowledge and experience they have and to more efficiently and effectively respond to emergencies, whether they be in the heart of the urban area, on the fringe, or, indeed, in rural areas. And one of the reasons this becomes even more important is because the role of what was then the New Zealand Fire Service had evolved over the recent decades, where, instead of just responding to fire-type emergencies, firefighters or personnel were spending far more of their efforts responding to incidents such as road crashes. So it\u2019s more a matter of importance that all fire service personnel are able to respond to the range of emergency incidents they might be called upon to. It\u2019s also important, along with that, of course, that the levy that is paid by individuals, by businesses, and by households is adequately calculated to make sure that the service can respond to all of the different types of services it might provide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThere is still some way to go there. They have just begun the consultation round to do that. It\u2019s important that they get that right. It will be important to the successful running of Fire and Emergency New Zealand into the future, and I commend them on the work they\u2019ve done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0edd9c1ab94435ab21efe728a6c4b7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0edd9c1ab94435ab21efe728a6c4b7b\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to be talking in this debate. Being a member of Finance and Expenditure Committee, I thought I might just turn my mind to some of the financial aspects of this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOf course, we were fortunate\u2014and I think all New Zealanders were glad to hear\u2014that during the course of 2016-17, New Zealand posted, through the counsel of the New Zealand Government, a large Budget surplus, commonly referred to as operating balance before gains and losses. That was $4.1 billion, up from $1.8 billion in the year before. When you actually look at the population, that means that for every person in New Zealand, $1,000 of Budget surplus was achieved by good, prudent management. At the same time, the net worth of the country went up by $25 billion and the levels of investment in places like health and education all went up by record levels. Stretching forward, we had $32 billion worth of infrastructure investment planned, and that is what good government is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s interesting to note that the eight months\u2019 accounts to February this year show an operating balance before gains and losses of about $2.85 billion\u2014again, much more, $500 million more, than was budgeted before that Government came into power. Also, at the same time, debt levels have gone down to just over 21 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo what I find intriguing is that this Government has inherited the best set of books that we have seen for such a long period of time. Not only that, even before they came into power they didn\u2019t even anticipate the extra $500 million that has flowed in from hard-working New Zealanders and corporations paying their fair share of tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo $500 million up, and yet what do we know? We know that this coalition Government wants to increase our net debt by 20 percent, from $59 billion to $69 billion, because even when they get this additional money, they don\u2019t think it\u2019s enough. They don\u2019t think it\u2019s enough even when, as I said before, we\u2019ve invested these record amounts, and that\u2019s what I find most disconcerting about this approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWhen I asked the Minister of Finance, who came to our select committee, about this issue about debt\u2014because I seem to recall during the last term, the 51st Parliament, he was always crying about the level of debt in New Zealand. He was always saying, \u201CIt\u2019s too high.\u201D, \u201COur percentage is too high.\u201D, and \u201CThe net amount is too high.\u201D, and yet that same person, now the Minister of Finance, is saying, \u201CNo, let\u2019s forget about that.\u201D, even though we\u2019ve got these record operating surpluses occurring. \u201CNo, we\u2019re going to borrow another $10 billion.\u201D\u2014another $10 billion. Well, in my view, that is not required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut the even worse thing is that now they\u2019ve got this working party headed by Sir Michael Cullen and, of course, what\u2019s his ambit? His ambit is to look at a whole range of new taxes\u2014a whole range of new taxes. Even before he\u2019s come out with his working party conclusions, what have we got? We\u2019ve heard about the fuel tax, and in my electorate, south of Auckland, 23c it\u2019s going to cost every time someone goes to the pump\u201423c a litre. That means, roughly, $15 every time someone in my area fills up their car so that they can get to work on a congested motorway, and we had those motorways\u2014we wanted to create some new motorways to try and reduce some of that congestion, and yet they will be paying all that amount of money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI\u2019m deeply worried about the situation\u2014why we need to have a Government that thinks they can tax and tax and tax hard-working New Zealanders, when they have inherited one of the best sets of books that this country has seen. I think it\u2019s something that we\u2019re going to hold their feet to the fire on over in the coming months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EReports relevant to the Finance and Government Administration Sector noted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab6e5194cf64436f861b6aef689f92a4\u0022\u003EHealth Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u002286e00152ac1b4e48bd7b7a7087fa4c3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286e00152ac1b4e48bd7b7a7087fa4c3d\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Chairperson of the Health Committee):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. Thank you for the privilege of speaking at this debate about the annual review of the Health sector, and I do so as the chair of the Health Committee. Can I, firstly, acknowledge my deputy chair, Dr Shane Reti\u2014and I want to put on record that I find him an incredibly good person to work with. I think that the committee itself is incredibly collegial. Can I also take this opportunity to say haere r\u0101 to Dr Jonathan Coleman and wish him all the best in his future endeavours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo the annual review that we undertook included the Health Quality and Safety Commission, the New Zealand Blood Service, and the following district health boards (DHBs): Auckland DHB, Counties Manukau DHB, Waitemat\u0101 DHB, Bay of Plenty DHB, Capital and Coast DHB, Canterbury DHB, Southern DHB, South Canterbury DHB, Hawke\u2019s Bay DHB, and MidCentral DHB.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ECan I say, our selection of those particular DHBs was based on those that we hadn\u2019t seen for a while, and it also included, actually, a three-year plan that we have before the Health Committee to review all of our 20 DHBs in this term. I want to say that I think that\u2019s an incredibly positive thing for us to have already agreed on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI do want to highlight some of the issues from these reviews, in particular the Health Quality and Safety Commission. I want to note that under the ACC claims for medical injury subsection in our report back to the House, there was an issue about surgical mesh. The Health Quality and Safety Commission, in fact, spent a lot of time talking about surgical mesh. What they highlighted and what we\u2019ve highlighted in our report\u2014and I just want to quote from the report: \u201CWe asked whether the commission is satisfied that it has access to the information it needs from ACC to support its work in improving health outcomes. The commission said it would like easier access to the information it needs.\u201D So, from our perspective, it has highlighted an access to information issue between the Health Quality and Safety Commission and ACC, and, in fact, we will write to that effect to both Ministers and provide a copy of our report, because we think it\u2019s a significant issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI would also like to highlight, in the New Zealand Blood Service report, that, in fact, we\u2019ve had a 10 percent decrease in active donors between\u2014where are we?\u20142012-13 and current figures, but they\u2019ve maintained collection volume. So, although we\u2019ve had a 10 percent decrease, the people who are donating are giving a lot more, and I particularly want to highlight that they said that they were very pleased with donation numbers in new migrant communities, so they\u2019re obviously being able to communicate how important blood is to new New Zealanders. There was an issue, however, about their behavioural criteria for donor referral, and these are people who are considered high-risk donors\u2014sex workers and men who have sex with other men. Currently, in New Zealand, we have a one-year period before somebody can donate blood. In the UK, that has been reduced to three months. So we\u2019ve asked that the New Zealand Blood Service report back to us about whether or not they\u2019re intending to amend that particular policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to focus on Counties Manukau District Health Board (DHB), Waitemat\u0101, and Auckland and stress what they stressed, that there was very high demand for services for acute surgical services and there has been unprecedented demand, particularly in acute services. This is, from their perspective, a terrible situation. All of the DHBs are expecting a deficit, but the horror of their situation\u2014they didn\u2019t underestimate\u2014was affecting staff. So the situation that staff are having to work in within our DHBs is actually putting our staff at risk. We don\u2019t have enough staff, and staff are doing too much; so huge issues within our DHB sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EFinally, I just want to highlight an issue before our committee, and it relates to the issue of asset management planning, and the fact that we as a select committee did not hear from the DHBs about the significance of the asset management planning and some of the issues that we have, and particularly at Counties Manukau District Health Board. I\u2019ve got a feeling that it\u2019s an issue right across all of our DHBs. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u002204d96ee7683d44cebc31c58e3468aa46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204d96ee7683d44cebc31c58e3468aa46\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak to this annual review in the health theme, and I too want to acknowledge the chair of the Health Committee and fellow members who made our way through our delegated tasks. I want to focus across several topics, but I want to start initially by focusing on the National Oracle Solution programme, of which we heard a lot and received a lot of information from the Office of the Auditor-General (OAG).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI want to lead off by just focusing on one particular part of the Office of the Auditor-General\u2019s concerns that were flagged to us. It reads as follows: \u201CThe NOS project has experienced delays and changes in scope. The original budget was $87.9 million, which we understand has been exhausted. NZ Health Partnerships are currently waiting on ministerial approval to obtain additional funds from DHBs to be able to complete the project.\u201D\u2014one small snippet of what the Office of the Auditor-General provided, amongst other information, to the annual review on this topic. Here\u2019s what we know from the annual review from the Office of the Auditor-General and other sources. The National Oracle Solution programme\u2014it\u2019s a nationwide procurement solution. I want it to work. I want it to get over the line. We want it to get over the line. I think there are truly benefits to be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ENow, it started around 2010 under Health Benefits Ltd, and in 2015 it was taken up by NZ Health Partnerships Ltd. The Minister agrees and tells us it\u2019s challenged and needs an independent review. Here\u2019s what we know: over the life of the project, Deloitte have been advisers to the project. Deloitte own the company Asparona, who have been implementation partners, and Deloitte have been paid to deliver the project. The summary statement, then, is this: Deloitte have been paid to deliver a failing $90 million IT project, and then they\u2019re appointed as independent reviewers. How can it not be that Deloitte has a conflict of interest? They have to have a conflict of interest, surely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESecondly, let\u2019s look at that further. What else do we know? Well, we know from the annual review several things. First of all, what did the Minister do to ensure independence? He talks about the conflicts of interest statement, the declaration. He says that the declaration includes Asparona\u2019s involvement, and here\u2019s the key point, the quote: \u201CI have been assured that no individual who had anything to do with Asparona\u2019s involvement in the National Oracle Solution project has any involvement in the Deloitte review.\u201D That\u2019s really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m going to make two predictions in this offering. The first is: I\u2019ll predict that statement will come back to haunt the Minister. Does he really believe that declaring a conflict of interest removes the conflict of interest? I don\u2019t think so, and neither does the sector, because what the sector\u2019s telling me is that this is the fox looking after the chickens. So if the sector is believing that, what sort of credibility is this report going to have when it eventually comes out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe Minister also said there\u2019d been compliance with \u201Call-of-Government procurement processes and conflict management procedures\u201D. What are they? Where are they? Can you point to us them? Can you give us a document, a manual, a page number maybe? If they\u2019re there, great; we\u2019d like to look at them. I\u2019d like to look at them. It would help us understand the process. The whole process actually gets a bit murkier, because I asked the Minister: has he updated the Prime Minister on issues in his portfolio? He told me he already did that. I actually made a small error of judgment then, because I talked about the independent reviewers that\u2019d he appointed\u2014in fact, the ministry had appointed, so he wriggled out of that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EBut I think the question stands, because I\u2019ve got a suspicion here. I think he truly has kept his word and updated the Prime Minister on the Deloitte appointment. I think the Prime Minister does know, and I think the Prime Minister\u2019s also involved in the appointment of Deloitte as an independent reviewer, and that David Clark has drawn the Prime Minister into this difficult mess\u2014that\u2019s what I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s look at the scope of the conflict of interest. How big is it? Is it insignificant? Well, I\u2019d suggest that Deloitte have probably been paid up to $20 million, and if we look through the amount of work that the OAG is suggesting in the annual review, it\u2019s probably up to about that amount. That\u2019s 20 million conflicts of interest, and I think what we really need is we need to know how much they\u2019ve actually been paid. So let\u2019s get to what needs to happen next. I think we need to see the conflicts of interest declaration, I think we need to know how much Deloitte has been paid, and I do still think that we need to refer this to the Office of the Auditor-General.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI said that I had a second prediction. Here\u2019s my second prediction and final statement. I think that if I ask David Clark to give the names of the independent reviewers with Deloitte, he\u2019s going to decline. I don\u2019t think he\u2019s going to tell us who taxpayers are paying to fund this independent review. I\u2019ll make that a prediction. I will ask the Minister: name the reviewers\u2014not just Deloitte, but name the reviewers that taxpayers are paying for the independent review of the National Oracle Solution project. And I\u2019ll make a prediction here that he will decline. He will not name them, because he knows they\u2019re conflicted\u2014he knows they\u2019re conflicted. If they\u2019re not conflicted, name them. Make it the fourth statement. Name the reviewers to the independent review. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b56cd89728274497ba346dc71ed277e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b56cd89728274497ba346dc71ed277e9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I do want to address a couple of matters raised by that member Shane Reti\u2019s speech. I\u2019m not quite sure why he is spending so much time in that particular rabbit hole, but I do want to clarify one or two things for the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EFirstly, Deloitte was appointed by the previous Government. So he\u2019s questioning the integrity of the appointment of his own Government, on the day before the former Minister of Health is set to give his valedictory. I think the irony is lost on no one. He asks how the all-of-Government process works. That is the process that that Government uses, and used when they were in power, to work through these kinds of contracts. I\u2019m assured that all real, actual, and perceived conflicts in this case were notified before any contract was signed, and I don\u2019t expect to micromanage every single contract that the ministry lets. There would be no point in having a Ministry of Health if I did. So I\u2019m intrigued, and no doubt the member will continue to try and pursue this matter, but it is of some intrigue to me, I have to say. It\u2019s not abundantly clear to me why he keeps attacking the very process that the Government that he was a member of set up and that, he claims, has spent $20 million so far and led nowhere. He claimed, at the beginning, that it might be up to $90 million, I think\u2014$87 million\u2014that the budget was for. And we all know it\u2019s become a problem, and that\u2019s why I have called for a review, because the previous Government has failed to deliver on the National Oracle Solution. There is a great irony in this whole situation, and that is a microcosm of what happened under that Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe all know that there has been nearly a decade of under-investment in the health sector. We have huge deficits in social and infrastructure spending from that previous Government. An estimate, commissioned by the former Labour Opposition, of an independent economic analysis agency confirmed that about $2.3 billion had been stripped out under their watch, and that means that services were cut. And emblematic of that is the situation at Counties Manukau that we find now. There is, literally, sewage in the walls. The last debate in this committee was on finance, and they avoided getting into the health debate for so long, I think, because they did not want to count the cost of those very few surpluses that they actually managed to deliver when they were in office. The cost is in the detriment to investment in our health sector, amongst other things. So we have that huge under-investment. We now have rot, mould, and sewage in the wall of one of our major hospitals, and that\u2019s not to mention Dunedin, where people have to don hazmat suits to collect their medical records. That is the state of Dunedin Hospital. When it rains, they have had to cancel surgery because the operating theatres leak. That is the legacy of that former Government over there, and it is deeply ironic that they should then raise issues in this committee about the health system that we have inherited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWell, I am determined to deal with what we have inherited from that Government. I\u2019m determined that we will stand up and find a positive way forward. I have asked for a national asset management plan to be put together so that we do have a comprehensive assessment of the neglect under their watch, so that we have a plan to manage forward into the future to deliver the kind of healthcare that New Zealanders would expect and deserve. Shortly after I became health Minister, the Rebstock report was released\u2014and it had taken a long time to get to that stage\u2014which found that the Ministry of Health was in a parlous state, really, even worse than its review five years before; again, a sign of neglect by the previous Government. They did not want a highly functional health ministry, it seems. They refused to address capacity issues there. Well, the good news for New Zealand is that that health ministry is rebuilding. There are many good people there, despite the attacks of the Opposition. There are many good people there who want to do a good job and lead our health system into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve made a number of early, positive steps. We\u2019ve launched an inquiry into mental health; we\u2019ve taken steps to improve health support for Canterbury kids; we\u2019ve invested in Maniototo Hospital, something that former Government opposite, in the Opposition benches, failed to do. They refused to give any money to Maniototo Hospital. We\u2019ve also already announced extra funding for Middlemore Hospital to address the neglect there. I have got around all of the 20 district health boards to have my own look at what\u2019s going on and to rebuild relationships that suffered under that Government\u2019s watch. Shortly, I\u2019m sure we\u2019ll hear from the member Michael Woodhouse, who will try to defend that Government\u2019s record. But I think the public knows that when we\u2019ve got rot, mould, and sewage in our walls, that is a case of serious neglect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00221ebac978879144b4889e8a1da7c43e0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ebac978879144b4889e8a1da7c43e0b\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E If there was any metaphor for the confusion of the Government and the Minister of Health, it was in that Minister\u2019s intervention where he said that the previous Government had set up the review of the National Oracle Solution and then in the next breath he said he\u2019d set up the review of the Oracle Solution. Well, I know what the answer is; he was right the second time. He did. He then declared a conflict of interest\u2014where a company is 100 percent owner of the organisation that is the subject of the review, declaring the conflict of interest is simply not enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s been really interesting to listen to the contributions of the Government members on the annual review debate, because the theme of this has been of a previous Government\u2014heartless, mean-spirited, knows the value of the dollar but not of the importance of its investment, and, actually, I will refute that. I will refute that, because the previous Government, in the worst of times, supported people. They raised income support. They supported the people of Canterbury. They created nearly a quarter of a million jobs in the last two years of that administration. In that time of that Government, wages went up at twice the rate of inflation. The minimum wage, for which I was responsible, went up by even more. If that\u2019s heartless and mean-spirited, that\u2019s a moniker I\u2019ll wear with pride.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut the confusion of the Minister, I think, is symblomatic of his panic at the profligate promises that he made in Opposition that he cannot keep. Now, the Health Committee heard from the combined Auckland district health boards (DHBs) in annual review, and it is very concerning, the revelations that are coming out about the state of the building at Middlemore Hospital. But I ask colleagues: what was it that the select committee heard from the combined Auckland district health boards in that annual review about the state of that building?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d926bca404341f29e74012db31004a8\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Silence. Nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b67dbfa60884d12aee5cdec7a65a2f2\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Not a whisper. Not a murmur. Not a dicky-bird was said by the members that came there and said, \u201CThis is the situation facing our district health boards.\u201D In the northern regional district health board\u2019s long-term plan\u2014no mention. In the Counties Manukau District Health Board annual plan, there is mention of $17 million being required, which they got, to fix the Scott building, and the Minister has had to top that up to the tune of $11.5 million. He announced that, I think, on about 21 March this year\u2014appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut we\u2019ve since had this extraordinary hyperbole about the state of the asset stock because of three very concerning buildings in Auckland. Well, we know, and we heard through the annual reviews, Vote Health is $16.8 billion, and I think there are other reasons why the Minister is panicking. It\u2019s probably more to do with the fact that he has brought back onto the Crown balance sheet the $1.4 billion commitment that the previous Government made for the rebuild of Dunedin Hospital. It\u2019s because of the huge expectations that he has left the health workforce, and in particular our fantastic nurses, the 50,000-odd of them who work in the public sector and have very, very elevated expectations for a pay increase that the Minister sought to address in November when he told the DHBs to bump the offer up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe reason we are now hearing stories about greater deficits in DHBs this year is a direct result of the Minister\u2019s own failed attempt to settle the New Zealand Nurses Organisation\u2019s pay negotiations, and we haven\u2019t even started with junior doctors, with senior doctors, with allied health professionals\u2014all of whom have had their pay expectations talked up by the Minister of Health, the Minister of Finance, and the Prime Minister, and they\u2019re backing out of those commitments at 100 miles an hour and seeking to blame the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWell, as Dr Yang mentioned, I have looked at deficits over a longitudinal period. In the nine years of the fourth Labour Government, there was over $600 million worth of deficits. Not including inflation, the combined deficits of the Key - English Government were 6 percent lower than that. We are going to see them go up and up, not because of anything the previous Government did or did not do but because that Minister and that Government have made promises they can\u2019t keep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022322888f314094e84b45f8c38a3bc4827\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022322888f314094e84b45f8c38a3bc4827\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s a privilege to take a call on this year\u2019s annual review debate on health. As Louisa Wall mentioned, our committee took in-depth reviews on a number of health agencies: the Ministry of Health, New Zealand Blood Service, Health Quality and Safety Commission, and 10 district health boards (DHBs). Sitting and listening to these organisations as they presented, I think, for me, there were three key themes that emerged. I think the first one was just the ubiquity of the deficits and the considerable strain that a lot of those DHBs were under financially, the second was this relentless increase in demand for acute services, and the third one was the challenges posed by the ageing and inadequate healthcare facilities. I want to talk to just each of those in turn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ELooking, firstly, at the DHBs\u2019 financial situation, almost all of the DHBs that we listened to were either in deficit for the 2016-17 year or projecting a deficit for the current year. While some of the DHBs talked about plans for how they were going to break even in the next two or three years, not all were confident they could actually do that. We heard from one DHB who had to come up with $30 million in savings each year, and talking through what they could do, they weren\u2019t that confident that those savings could be fully made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EThe other one, though, on the other side of the equation was the ongoing increases in acute services demand. So what we were hearing was about A \u0026amp; Es being absolutely full and about hospital wards being at capacity and having all of their beds open in summer, which anybody working in the hospital wards knows is very unusual; you\u2019d expect a peak demand in winter. But they were seeing this increasing demand right throughout the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EThey also, a lot of them, talked about the increasing demands for mental health services. What that is doing is also impacting on the DHBs\u2019 ability to recruit sufficient workforce. One DHB was talking about their mental health staff having trouble recruiting, having trouble retaining, and having their staff being absolutely exhausted because of trying to keep up with that demand and pressure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EOne of the DHBs\u2014we had to go back and I had to query it in the transcript\u2014reported 3,326 days of psychiatry vacancies, so that\u2019s actually nine full-time psychiatrists in a single DHB alone. Others were talking about their primary care being at capacity and some of the issues with DHBs not having affordable access to after-hours care. In some of the Auckland DHBs, what all these increases in demand were attributed to was just this massive population growth. They were seeing huge numbers of people moving into their areas, and their infrastructure and resourcing were struggling to keep up with that. But even some of the DHBs in regional centres where there wasn\u2019t a lot of population growth were talking about the increasing demand because we have an ageing population\u2014and also about unaddressed drivers in terms of social determinants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo there were big issues with, you know, low-quality crowded housing and cold houses and the impact they were having on acute infectious and respiratory diseases. From my own experience working in child health and looking at the reporting on why kids are coming into hospital, you know, you\u2019re seeing things like pneumonia, asthma. A lot of those are housing related. So there is a sense of having the impact of an unaddressed housing crisis, where we\u2019ve got some families living in cars, in sheds, or in crowded boarding houses, and then, you know, those unaddressed factors turning into sick kids coming into A \u0026amp; E and causing excess demand there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EThe third thing, which was sort of also related, was just district health boards talking about the challenges posed by inadequate or ageing infrastructure. One DHB in the Auckland region that was facing this increased demand for services just purely because of population growth\u2014they were saying they needed about $500 million to rebuild and to expand some of the wards in one of their hospitals, but they also said they needed $110 million to expand their elective surgical unit, and another $30 to $40 million for their forensic psychiatry ward just to be able to keep up. Other DHBs not in that situation were also talking about their health infrastructure coming to the end of its life and needing either replacement or total refurbishment. So together we\u2019ve had chronic under-resourcing coupled with increasing demand, and also a lack of strategic planning across asset management and also across workforce planning. And so this current Government has got a lot of challenges in addressing this, but we are up to the task, and, as the Minister said, we\u2019ve got a lot of plans in place to address this. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u00223033cceb321647bb910b993e8231ce20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223033cceb321647bb910b993e8231ce20\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. My special focus on health is around disability issues, and so, in discussing the performance of district health boards (DHBs) over the last year, my questions have been around how they have managed their interaction with the disability sector. With one in four New Zealanders identifying with a disability, and with disability conditions being very variable and complex, it\u2019s important that DHBs provide appropriate and tailored services to people with disabilities. I\u2019m also really interested in the employment of people with disabilities within the health sector. As a past Minister for Disability Issues, I\u2019ve been working with DHBs, as very large employers in the community, about how accessible their premises are and how proactive they are about employing disabled people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe Health Committee learnt from our questioning of DHBs that most have an active disability strategy or at least are in the process of developing one, which I think is good progress. Most have a consumer advisory body which can reflect the voice of the disability community. There also seems to be a growing interest in and an awareness of delivering services well to disabled people. However, there is less progress in terms of employing people with disabilities. Despite international and local evidence that shows that disabled people give an important and valuable contribution to the organisations that employ them\u2014they increase the diversity of the workplace and they provide a much more representative workforce\u2014most DHBs haven\u2019t taken much interest in this issue or taken up that opportunity, and I really do encourage DHBs to actively support and encourage the employment of disabled people. The Health Committee has developed a series of questions for DHBs to provide some baseline data on disability services and also on the employment of disabled people, which we can use in future to monitor progress and to benchmark DHBs\u2019 performance. I really look forward to seeing improvements in strategies and employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI was particularly interested in the review of the MidCentral District Health Board in terms of their disability provision, because they were part of the planned roll-out of Enabling Good Lives. Now, Enabling Good Lives was National\u2019s disability transformation programme, and it allows disabled people to have more choice, more control, and more opportunities in their lives. National had planned for that to be rolled out in Palmerston North this July. However, when we spoke to MidCentral District Health Board in February, they hadn\u2019t received their funding envelope or detailed instructions about the Government\u2019s priorities. They told me that they hoped they would be able to begin delivering Enabling Good Lives, but in the meantime they were just carrying on with business as usual. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI really urge the Government to continue the work that National and the disability sector had done on Enabling Good Lives\u2014their vision, their ideas, and the roll-out across New Zealand. The programme is really important to the sector. It will make a huge difference to the lives of individuals who have a disability, and disabled people have told us time and time again that they do want more choice, they do want more control, and they do want opportunities in their lives. So this delivery of Enabling Good Lives, beginning in Palmerston North, is the beginning of a transformation of disability services that we want to see right through the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I was pleased with what I heard from the DHBs. They are aware of the work that needs to be done in the disability sector. Many of them have got an active disability strategy. Mostly they have a consumer group that gives the voice to the disabled people, and overall I think they\u2019re trying to do their very best. I can assure them that the select committee has questions now to keep them on their toes and make sure that they are delivering for the disabled people of New Zealand. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca5694f09b974ab299d26a2808313c73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca5694f09b974ab299d26a2808313c73\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. It\u2019s a privilege to stand and take a call on this very important subject, health. My k\u014Drero today is going to be based on leadership. Because Tongan is my first language, I want to define what leadership means to me. The chair of the Tongan Language Committee translates leadership into the Tongan language as Tauhi Kakai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EWhen you flip that into English, it says it\u2019s about caring for people\u2014so how you conduct the caring is how you lead. So for me, I want to acknowledge the leadership of all the district health boards (DHBs) that have come before the Health Committee. I want to highlight one thing that I liked in what they shared, and bring my concerns about the leadership of the last nine years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the DHBs that reported to the Health Committee. The highest ranked target they reported on was the immunisation of the under-twos. Most DHBs actually were over 90 percent in achieving that immunisation. What concerned me, in terms of the workforce, was they then reported, \u201CBut we had to achieve year-on savings, which are significant.\u201D The thing that worried me was that the majority of the DHBs had reported that their people were overworked. DHBs were overworked and they had to rely on the goodwill of people. They had to rely on the goodwill of their staff to continue working within their own DHB. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to note that somebody had said before that the past Government of the last nine years had given this Government the best set of books. I want to question that leadership in terms of what we have found out in Counties Manukau. The reports from the Auckland DHBs, Counties Manukau DHB and Waitemat\u0101 DHB, talked about avoidable hospitalisations and they also talked about unprecedented demand, which the Health Committee chair, Louisa Wall, has highlighted also. Unprecedented demands on services, of course, had led to overworked staff in terms of the workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the leadership of the Minister of Health, the Hon David Clark, because he has realised we are going to go into what we now know are unprecedented costs of neglect by the leadership of the last Government. We\u2019ve found out that in Middlemore Hospital\u2014the ordinary New Zealander listening to this would hear many millions and billions of figures being thrown in the air. To the ordinary New Zealander, what does that million look like?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EWell, what it means is that we found out in Counties Manukau, at Middlemore Hospital, that seven buildings require maintenance. It didn\u2019t just happen overnight. If you look at a boil\u2014my analogy of this is like having a boil. You know, when you have a boil it sort of comes to the burst, and it doesn\u2019t happen overnight. It comes to the burst because there was no attention; it was neglected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ELuckily, this Government came along, and we talked about having an inquiry for mental health. We talked about an inquiry because the leadership of this Government is about listening to the voice of experience. And the voice of experience is actually about listening before you make a decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EBefore you can say that we\u2019ve had the best set of books, I want to question the leadership of the last nine years. Is Middlemore Hospital the best set of books you\u2019ve left? Is Middlemore Hospital, which consists of the most socially deprived of our population\u2014did you leave them with the best set of books? Well\u2014[Interruption] I\u2019m sorry to bring you into that, Mr Chair. Did the last Government? I say to you, no. The last Government didn\u2019t do that. Luckily enough, the boil has burst in time where this Government is taking the leadership by caring for people. Leadership is about caring for people. It is not about caring for the books. That\u2019s me for today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u002266c151c1ee584f78a6f2e59ba553d867\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266c151c1ee584f78a6f2e59ba553d867\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair\u2014a very good call. This is the first time we\u2019ve had an appropriation debate with the new Health Committee, so I want to wish my colleagues on both sides of the House all the best for the coming term. I\u2019d like to take note of our new chair, Louisa Wall, who I think is doing a fantastic job, and our deputy chair, Shane Reti. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the new Minister of Health and wish him all the best for what\u2019s ahead of him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI must say, I was interested to read the national portrait on David Clark, the new health Minister, where he said, \u201CI\u2019d decided that I didn\u2019t want to do medicine because it involved a lot of biology and chemistry, which I should have known.\u201D Funny that! He possibly should have known that by the time you get into a medical career that possibly you\u2019d be studying biology and chemistry. I\u2019m a bit concerned that will be a theme that will run through his tenure as health Minister\u2014that he\u2019ll get into the job and say, \u201CI should have known.\u201D So I think what we\u2019re talking about here is possibly the accidental health Minister, and that\u2019s something that this Parliament is going to have to support over the coming term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI think what we do have is a very good health system. I\u2019ve been fortunate enough to have worked across two health systems, the British National Health Service and the New Zealand health system. When I came back from England to New Zealand, they were having efficiency savings of 5 percent a year. Basically, in the mental health field, where you don\u2019t have a lot of consumables or technology, a reduction is basically a reduction in staff numbers. Now, we\u2019ve never had to face that in New Zealand. In fact, when you look at two key health components, being efficiency and equity, you\u2019d say that the New Zealand health system weighs up pretty well with both of them. We\u2019ve got young people accessing GP care for free. We are doing more and more elective surgeries. So, overall, there is always room for improvement. But what I do want to say is to acknowledge the very hard-working staff, both clinical and non-clinical, who work every day at the front line, supporting the well-being of New Zealanders. I just want to applaud them. That pretty much came out as a theme of our annual reviews\u2014the great work that district health boards (DHBs) are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ENow, I wanted to pick up, in my call, the subject of mental health. We spoke to a lot of the DHBs, around mental health, and it was quite rewarding to hear about some of the great work that\u2019s happening in the mental health space within our DHBs. When we spoke to the Auckland DHB, they talked about the last three years they\u2019d spent co-designing services. Basically, what they were doing was shifting services, not necessarily specifically looking at mental illness but at mental well-being as well. When we look at it, if we look at a graph\u2014traditionally, I think, Governments haven\u2019t always got it right because if you look at neurodevelopment it declines over age but the Government appropriations into mental health increase over age. So it\u2019s in the inverse. Basically, what that is is DHBs traditionally fund the acute and severe mental health services, but now the acknowledgment is we have to do a lot more around mild and moderate and we have to do a lot more prevention. Because mental health is not just the absence of mental illness; it is in fact building psychological and emotional resilience in our communities. So it\u2019s great to see these DHBs adapting, that they\u2019re not only looking at focusing on their clinical pathways around mental illness but also around mental well-being as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWe heard from Counties Manukau DHB, who were looking at piloting a place-based approach to services. Basically, in the mental health field we\u2019ve got a recovery model, which basically puts the person at the centre of their care. With a place-based approach they\u2019ll have navigators that will help them navigate through the services. You\u2019re looking at peer-to-peer services where other people have had lived experience of mental health services and shared care as well. Because when you look at some of the budget spends, Waikato DHB spends 40 percent of their mental health funding, and this is what they told us in the review on the NGO sector. What that is about is\u2014[Bell rung] Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b63fa11ca0c4b86838adf8a2bca1319\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Matt Doocey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220537a0333cab468e8085d999dd7b4f70\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much\u2014good choice, Mr Chair. The 40 percent on the NGO sector\u2014because when we go around doing our sector visits and engaging the mental health community, actually NGOs are saying they\u2019re ready, they\u2019re primed, they can actually do a lot more, and they can actually be more productive than our traditional DHB services. So I think one thing, looking forward, for either Government is to understand how we understand the funder/ provider model better for DHB services and how we can use some of that money to fund the NGO sector that will pick up community services for well-being as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThere was a word of caution by one of the DHBs, the Bay of Plenty, that actually they were reluctant to continue or progress their work stream around mental health because of the upcoming Government inquiry. I think we should be well aware of this\u2014that many DHBs will be waiting for the outcome of the inquiry. So there is a lot of pressure now on this Government to make sure the inquiry delivers at the level it says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWe already have a lot of mental health advocates not happy that out of a year-long inquiry, the actual time for oral submissions is only eight weeks, and we now have the chair of the inquiry saying that it\u2019s just a policy advisory inquiry. We need to make sure that if DHBs are putting their work stream for mental health on hold, this inquiry will deliver what they need and not just kick for touch mental health for another year, another year and a half, for the 2019 Budget, because the concern is there will be no extra funding in the Budget that\u2019s to be announced soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EAnother entity we had an annual review of was the Health Quality and Safety Commission. It was a very good discussion about our suicide rate in New Zealand\u2014one of New Zealand\u2019s biggest social problems. I think, quite rightly, they pointed to some of the issue around suicide is that we\u2019re looking at a small window of the three-year political term. I think, for an issue like that and the wider issues of mental health, we actually need to be looking longer than three years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWe can always look at other jurisdictions for learning. In Scotland their devolved Parliament has a cross-party select committee, very similar to what we have in the New Zealand Parliament, called globe for climate change, that looks at a pilot policy direction over five, eight, 10, 15 years. I do hope that all the parties in this House will consider how maybe we might come together and depoliticise mental health somewhat. We would still want to have the adversarial approach in the House to hold each other to account, but ultimately if we could agree a policy direction, like we currently are doing around climate change in the New Zealand Parliament, for a longer period of time, I think the New Zealand public would welcome that and reward that as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EJust in conclusion, one thing that also came out from the MidCentral DHB was looking at how we can deliver cross-Government services better. Now, they highlighted they\u2019re partnering with St John\u2019s. St John\u2019s and even the Fire Service and the police would say they get a lot of callouts that are mental health - related. And, in fact, they mightn\u2019t be the best emergency response service to go out in the first instance. So it\u2019s great that they are developing new ways of working, and looking at partnering with mental health professionals to go out with St John\u2019s and the police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo, overall, I\u2019ve highlighted a range of good work in the mental health space. It\u2019s very clear there\u2019s a huge demand; a lot of that\u2019s to do with population growth, changing dynamics in the way we live, and also the breaking down of barriers and stigma, and more people are asking for help. Thank you very much, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002261a63090da8f4a48988205b9358f6bfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261a63090da8f4a48988205b9358f6bfd\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Mr Chair, for this call on the annual review health appropriation. This debate is concerning for me for many reasons, but one of them is mainly because of what we see at Counties Manukau District Health Board (DHB), Middlemore Hospital, where thousands of our people from South Auckland are served.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWhen we look at page 335 of the annual review, it tells us that Counties Manukau serves a population of 546,000 people and that they expect to serve an extra 70,000 by the year 2025. We see that the total income for the DHB in 2016-17 was $1.78 billion. However, the deficit was close to $13 million. We also see the DHB tells us that the demand for acute surgical services usually ceases during the summer months; however, in the 2016-17 year, it went up and it stayed up. One of the reasons why, they tell us, they think the surge hasn\u2019t actually come down is because of the population growth and because of the ageing population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EMiddlemore Hospital, in my opinion, is a damning indictment on the previous National-led Government\u2019s neglect and its underfunding of New Zealand\u2019s health system. Among other things, we know now that Middlemore Hospital has not one, not two, but seven hospital buildings that have rot in their walls, that are leaking, that have asbestos through their walls, and, as you heard from the Minister of Health earlier on, that have sewage leaking through their walls. We cannot have the previous Government tell us that they are so proud of so many millions that they have apparently handed over to this current coalition Government when we see the manifestation of so much underfunding in Middlemore Hospital. That is the result of underfunding. That is the result of not looking after the public health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIt is not the only DHB, though, that is experiencing underfunding. We know that when we look at Dunedin Hospital, it is also going through a number of issues. They have asbestos there as well. We are looking at, actually, a new rebuild of Dunedin Hospital as well. Over at Dunedin, when it rains heavily, it leaks in the operating theatre in Dunedin Hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f5dc91ef14d4a109fd73c9ba4a79168\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Do your job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222544fcead05946aabe439f0e1df9544a\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: We hear people from the other side saying, \u201CDo your job.\u201D We have been here for a few months; the previous Government had been in Government for nine long years. These leaks, this rot in the walls, and the asbestos that we\u2019re dealing with didn\u2019t just happen over the last few months. We know now that we would need around about $14 billion\u2014$14 billion\u2014to deal with what is needed in terms of capital projects within the next 10 years in our DHBs. And yet, the previous Government, they put aside $600 million\u2014$600 million they put aside\u2014that they earmarked for capital costs. That was only for this year, 2018. When we look at the other years, how much did the previous Government put aside? Zero, absolutely zero, every year. We have around about 500,000 people that do not visit their general practices because they cannot afford the cost of seeing their doctors. We know that under the previous Government we saw a 30 percent increase under the last Government in costs for visiting their GPs. So many of our people, when they cannot afford to see their GPs, they go to our emergency departments at hospitals. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EReports relevant to the Health Sector noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f7a3e585e434f1191fe4f47fb109093\u0022\u003EJustice Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u00221fcc796c9405470ea8a092c536f33644\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fcc796c9405470ea8a092c536f33644\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Chairperson of the Justice Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The Justice Committee has conducted annual reviews for 2016-2017 of 12 justice sector organisations, notably the Ministry of Justice, the New Zealand Police, the Serious Fraud Office, the Department of Corrections, as well as the Abortion Supervisory Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe Abortion Supervisory Committee is constituted under the Contraception, Sterilisation, and Abortion Act 1977. It is an independent supervisory body to oversee and govern the provision of abortion services in New Zealand. It is funded through Vote Justice and it is supported by the Ministry of Justice. In the year to December 2016, 12,823 abortions were performed on New Zealand women. Of those, 10,813 were surgical and 1,970 were medical. In its annual report and during the annual review process, the Abortion Supervisory Committee has reiterated its calls for review of the Act. The Act has not been reviewed since it was enacted in 1977. The Act needs some urgent attention to reflect the modern healthcare delivery, advances in technology, and to correct outdated language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EFrom the Department of Corrections we have learnt that the prison population has increased by 16.7 percent in the last two years. We have in New Zealand 10,200 prisoners as at 30 June 2017. Of the prisoners, 71 percent are serving a sentence and 29 percent are on remand awaiting a trial or sentencing. The prison population is forecast to reach 12,000 by 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EMental health in prisons is one of the important issues, and we have learnt that on any given day more than 100 people would benefit from greater mental health treatment in our prisons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EImproving outcomes for M\u0101ori offenders is another important issue. M\u0101ori are overrepresented at every stage of the criminal justice system. M\u0101ori make up 15.8 percent of the New Zealand population, yet 51 percent of the New Zealand prison population are M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EFrom the annual review of the Ministry of Justice we have learnt that violent crime increased by 3 percent. The increase was largely driven by increases in burglary and assault offences recorded, which increased by 14 percent and 10 per cent respectively. Recent trends in crime were featured in the annual review of the New Zealand Police. The police have seen a rise in mental health incidents, with police officers attending 35,000 mental health calls for services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EFamily violence is an operational priority area for the police, and cyber-crime investigations will continue to increase. The police are working with other agencies, such as the Computer Emergency Response Team, and across law enforcement internationally. We note the view expressed by the police that cyber-crime at the moment is a specialised area, but it is going to have to become a generalised area because technology will be a part of everyday life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe Justice Committee is one of the busiest committees in Parliament. We have a number of bills before us, from the Trusts Bill to the End of Life Choice Bill\u2014namely, the euthanasia bill\u2014which is likely to become the most significant and controversial bill that this committee and, indeed, this Parliament will consider. I\u2019d like to take this opportunity to thank all committee members, particularly my previous deputy chair, the Hon Amy Adams, and the current deputy chair, the Hon Maggie Barry. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002291d26597151f4b698ec7db371c3d118b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291d26597151f4b698ec7db371c3d118b\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s a great pleasure to take a call on the Appropriation (2016/17 Confirmation and Validation) Bill and, in this case, on the theme of the justice sector. I just want to begin by saying how this new Government has inherited an absolute crisis in the criminal justice sector. There can be no question about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIn one sense, the previous Government inherited problems that other Governments have had, and we\u2019ve had 30 years of growing expenditure and growing problems in the criminal justice sector. But, actually, it reached a crisis point a long time ago, and what I charge the previous Government of is, having had the opportunity to actually do something meaningful about the challenges facing this sector, they did absolutely nothing. They talked long and hard about how they didn\u2019t like prisons. They described them as \u201Ca moral and fiscal failure\u201D, but did they do anything to reduce the rapidly growing prison population? Absolutely nothing, and they relished the opportunity to make it worse. They passed more and more laws to imprison more and more people for longer and longer periods of time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d51f47c529d54b308c47997eb5ab1a11\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Who are you going to release? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c01b763899b4276b691a3e6f5791128\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and the real pity of it is that the apprentices who have come in in this season now want to add more and more crimes and extend more and more prison sentences for more and more people. No one on that side of the House wants to step up and face up to the problem, and, when you look at it, look at their legacy of failure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo they set targets to reduce offending. They set a target to reduce violent crime offences in their last term of Government\u2014to reduce them. They went up by nearly 5 percent. They set a target to reduce reoffending by prisoners. They said they\u2019d have a target to reduce it by 25 percent. They reduced it by under 5 percent. No real effort at all\u2014no real effort at all\u2014and now we have the crisis we\u2019ve got right now. Nearly 11,000 people in prison, and they\u2019ve got no answers on how to deal with it. It is time for a shake-up, and this Government is committed to a programme of change that achieves the objectives that you would expect of a responsible, modern criminal justice system: to keep the innocent safe, and for those who offend, make them accountable but actually fix the problems that they\u2019ve got so they can turn out of the system and be productive, responsible citizens again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThat side of the House turns people away, casts them aside, rejects them, and wants nothing more to do with them. That is not an expression of humanity. That\u2019s not an expression of a criminal justice system that is doing its job of keeping people safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI want to mention, briefly, too one other aspect of the justice system that has turned out to be a complete and utter failure on their part, and that\u2019s the Family Court. So they introduced all these changes on the basis that separating couples would quite happily cooperate with each other, work with a mediator, and sort out all their issues, and it hasn\u2019t happened because that approach denies the fundamentals of humanity that when people are in disagreement with each other and when their emotional commitment falls apart and they want to sort it out, they cannot do it on their own. They cannot do it on their own. I am looking forward to the reforms to come through, because they will be shown up as the party that does not understand basic human endeavour, basic human emotions, basic human contact. They don\u2019t get it\u2014they don\u2019t get it. They are the party of anti-humanity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EYou know, the secret about most Tories is they don\u2019t actually like people. They don\u2019t like ordinary people. They like the privileged. They like the privileged, they like the elites, but they don\u2019t like ordinary people\u2014they hate them. So when people have the problems that ordinary people have, they do not know how to deal with it. So they kind of look at what works on a piece of paper and it saves a bit of money, and they go away and do it. Well, I can tell this committee, that is changing too, because we are going to have a justice system\u2014whether it\u2019s in criminal law, whether it\u2019s in family law, or whether it\u2019s in all aspects of civil law\u2014that is humane, that understands people, and that gives people access to justice, so that we can, once again, claim to be a country that respects all people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4479651e5f641dabc3561c1898cfe45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4479651e5f641dabc3561c1898cfe45\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. It is with pleasure I rise to talk about the annual reviews that have come before the Justice Committee, and following the tough guy of Labour, \u201CAngry Andy\u201D\u2014\u201COh So Angry Andy\u201D. Family violence, which is one of the problems failing the justice system\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fce1daf08e74c0ca751d6ab74940e51\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ad4e66a50c842a3a89eeaecabf73b50\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014we have a Minister who is leading from the front\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228042dd17a90e4a64ab9caceced29d82c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! When members are addressing other members, they are to use the correct form of their name. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022094daedddf43475aaf588481595ed1bc\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Chair. \u201CMr Angry Andy\u201D, the person who is somebody who\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272432c28542a451fb1eb47381865b8dc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Second warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fe36ea93ff948658a231a109be27010\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I guess, having listened to the diatribe of nonsense from the previous speaker, who used to be the leader of Labour until he wisely stepped down\u2014and they all owe it to that member for where they are sitting today; that member and Winston Peters\u2014we have tough talk from individuals who have done nothing and who are actually appalling when it comes to family violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo the Justice Committee has heard a number of annual reviews. One of them was the Department of Corrections. Now, with the Department of Corrections, you would have thought that a sensible Government with any kind of view to rehabilitation in the future would not have stopped the money and the resources going into drug and alcohol rehabilitation, but they did. Wonder why\u2014what\u2019s their problem? Why would you do something that absolutely will guarantee that people who have those sorts of difficulties would be able to get out of the problem?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI urge this Government not to continue its wilful ideology that will take us down the path of hardened criminals on the streets of New Zealand, preying on innocent New Zealanders. This idealistic nonsense from this chaotic Government\u2014and this is a Government that\u2019s very fond of the \u201Cc\u201D word, isn\u2019t it? The \u201Cc\u201D word\u2014\u201CCrisis? What crisis?\u201D There used to be one in manufacturing. Now, they\u2019re drumming up some other nonsense, as well. The fact of the matter is they have overspent, overcommitted, and raised expectations, and they\u2019re now desperately trying to distract, from the smoke-and-mirrors brigade, that there is no problem. We\u2019ve been funding all of their unwise and unrealistic promises. They\u2019ve dug their own grave, and they\u2019re welcome to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo this is a hard-working committee, unlike the Minister who just sat down, who doesn\u2019t appear to have much knowledge at all of his portfolio or anything that\u2019s going on in it. The Justice Committee does have one of the heaviest workloads in Parliament, and there are, I think, 11 annual reviews.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to talk about family violence, because that was work that was begun under the National Government. It\u2019s very good work, and I would hope that this ridiculous Government doesn\u2019t try and undo the good work that we did. In family violence, it\u2019s extremely important to note that as Governments operate, they didn\u2019t used to share very much information. So, under the leadership of Amy Adams, who at that time was Minister of Justice\u2014and what an outstanding Minister of Justice she was, especially compared to the incumbent. Amy Adams, and Minister Anne Tolley from the Ministry of Social Development as well, made it very clear that they expected officials and Ministers to work together. So when we looked at the way that family violence was being dealt with, and this is something that the Justice Committee looked at\u2014the goal to reduce crime, victimisation, and harm. The Ministry of Justice prioritised that. I think they\u2019ve done very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe Wh\u0101nau Protect National Home Safety Service, which is one of the pilots around family violence, which began under National, I hope will continue on and that they don\u2019t take the funding out of it to put into some other bright shiny new thing that won\u2019t work, because that is a pilot that has been working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIn my own area, formerly of seniors, and being very concerned with elder abuse and family violence as it pertains to older members of families, the work that we were doing with ACC and police was extraordinary. It did change lives. The Integrated Safety Response\u2014the two pilots that we set up are in Christchurch and Waikato. We put money into it last year\u2014$22.4 million in funding\u2014because we want those pilots to continue. And thank goodness we did, because otherwise they would have taken the money and spent it\u2014squandered it\u2014on something else. But we have put that through now until 30 June 2019, so that even this chaotic Government and it\u2019s unfortunate Minister will not be able to undo the good work that we have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo, I urge this Government, with all of its foibles and strange ideas, to not go soft, to ensure that family violence is at the heart of the justice sector. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u002228b78a620ff04f5fbfc3957deb8608a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228b78a620ff04f5fbfc3957deb8608a9\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s an absolute honour to stand and take a call to contribute to this debate on the justice sector on what we\u2019ve heard and what we\u2019ve discovered through our annual reviews and that process. I must, however, address, firstly, some of the points, or lack of points, made by the member Maggie Barry, who just resumed her seat. She said, \u201CWhat crisis?\u201D Tell that to the hundreds of people who are suffering in rotten, mouldy hospitals and in prisons that keep being built that only serve to return hardened criminals to our streets, and to those who are living in cars and garages because the previous Government has left a legacy of under-resourcing and chronic dysfunction. Tell that to the people who are suffering, instead of chatting at the back of the Chamber and trivialising this issue by flinging insults around and name-calling, which, frankly, should be beneath any member in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ETo carry on with the theme, really, of this whole debate and previous debates as well\u2014which is actually really sad\u2014is the fact that we can\u2019t ignore that there has been an increase in demand in the justice sector, an increase in the complexity of the issues that are faced across the sector, and chronic under-resourcing coupled with a complete lack of planning, which has led to the issues that the Minister of Justice so eloquently laid out in his speech. This Government is focusing on fixing the issue, not on feel-good measures that actually won\u2019t achieve anything, as we\u2019ve seen over the last nine years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo what exactly is happening? We\u2019ve heard and we\u2019ve seen the stats. Whichever way you look at it, it\u2019s not good. We\u2019ve seen that the total crime rate continues to increase. It has increased over the last two years. The main drivers of the increasing crime rate are burglaries and violent crime, we\u2019re told. The Maungakiekie electorate, where I\u2019m based, sees the capital of burglaries in Mount Wellington. Violent crime, which is driven largely by homicide and sexual assault, continues to rise. This is the legacy that the previous speaker talked about and is so proud about\u2014is lauding? I see nothing to be proud about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe Indian community, which I do a lot of work with, is often at the forefront of crime because many are small-business owners who run dairies\u2014many who live in abject fear from day to day, wondering if that\u2019s the day that the people who assaulted them will come back to finish the job. Is that the legacy that the previous Government is proud about? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESome of the measures that they put in place previously\u2014which actually weren\u2019t too bad when it comes to measures like fog cannons and security measures, which I admit were actually pretty good measures, but what was the take-up rate? It was something like three dairies at the end of last year that actually took it up. They couldn\u2019t afford it. Fifty percent they had to pay\u2014that\u2019s up to $2,000 for dairy owners. That was too expensive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWhat has this Government done? We\u2019ve come in there and actually made it affordable, so that people who are working in high-risk dairies can actually afford to feel safe in their workplace. Isn\u2019t that what we\u2019re all working towards? Feeling safe wherever we are, whether it\u2019s in the home, whether it\u2019s on the streets, whether it\u2019s at work\u2014that\u2019s a right. That\u2019s a right that we all should be able to access. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EBut, thanks to the previous Government\u2019s lack of\u2014I don\u2019t know what it is, actually. It\u2019s definitely a lack of spending, but it\u2019s also a lack of thinking about what really works. So it\u2019s about flinging money at prisons. Our prisons are at capacity. We\u2019ve seen that through the annual reviews. But what was the previous Government\u2019s response? Lock them up. \u201CWe\u2019ll lock more people up. We\u2019ll lock them up for longer.\u201D, because, yes, that\u2019s worked so well, hasn\u2019t it, for us in the last nine years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EInstead, look at what the evidence tells us. What does the evidence tell us? There\u2019s a much higher rate of people not offending, or a deterrent effect of people not reoffending, if they\u2019re actually caught. But what did the previous Government do? They didn\u2019t put in enough police numbers, so people aren\u2019t being caught. In Auckland in the last year, conviction rates or arrest rates\u2014people actually being caught for the burglaries that they were committing\u2014was woeful. It was under 10 percent. From memory, off the top of my head, it was something like 6 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ELook at the prison population that we have. M\u0101ori are disproportionately represented\u201450 percent of the prison population and 65 percent of youth in prisons. Look at the mental health statistics. Police were being called out for 35,000 mental health incidents in the last year alone\u2014utterly shambles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd260f13b66e4dfa88c6913a871167f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd260f13b66e4dfa88c6913a871167f9\u0022\u003EMATT KING (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a real pleasure to be able to take a call today on the justice sector review\u2014[Interruption] I refer to page 461. What I\u2019d normally like to do is throw some of those insults back at you\u2014sorry, back at the coalition Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221543a76f0a0a416eb35358a950940510\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I wasn\u2019t throwing any insults at you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298ca8ddcc1ce44f0a9f1bac06a583ab5\u0022\u003EMATT KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes, sorry, Mr Chairman\u2014back at the coalition Government, because they provide so much material, but I\u2019m going to actually be nice today, and I\u2019m going to acknowledge the Justice Committee chair, Raymond Huo, again. He\u2019s one of the nicer ones in that crew over there. I was only on the Justice Committee a short time, and I think during some of these reviews I was actually not there, but I was there for half of the police one, and I want to concentrate on the police one because that\u2019s my background and also they don\u2019t get enough acknowledgment. The police don\u2019t get enough acknowledgment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge that they\u2019ve had a successful and productive year, the New Zealand Police; they don\u2019t get enough recognition. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the Police Commissioner, Mike Bush, who, when I was in the police he was the detective senior sergeant on the North Shore. If you wanted a crime solved he was the man to have in charge of it. So it\u2019s great to see that he has worked his way up to be commissioner. He started at the ground floor and he\u2019s earned the right to be there. So I\u2019d like to acknowledge him\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f7b925437174c8e8e7b49d1b5c700ee\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What happened to you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294acd86ea57f4802821c20d648848f11\u0022\u003EMATT KING\u003C/span\u003E: I remained a detective and got out. I didn\u2019t stay on as long as Greg O\u2019Connor, 30 years. I stayed to 14 and I got out. It\u2019s a tough job. It\u2019s hard on the family, and it\u2019s actually hard on your mental health. I describe policing as 80 percent routine, 15 percent action, and 5 percent terror. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that the police have attended and done really well at some major incidents: the Kaik\u014Dura earthquakes in November 2016, the Christchurch fires in February 2017, and the Bay of Plenty floods in April 2017. When the National Government was in, we were going to have 880 extra police and 245 support staff, and $388 million was going to go in to cover that over the next four years. I also note that the police have adopted the 47 specific recommendations from the commission of inquiry into police conduct. So I\u2019m glad to hear that, because a sign of a good organisation is their ability to evolve and learn from the mistakes of the past. So that\u2019s good to hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EI see that in the 2016-17 year, $300 million worth of assets were seized or restrained, as in held back from criminal activity, and $168 million was forfeited from criminals. That\u2019s the way you hurt them. You take their Harleys off them. You take their properties off them. That\u2019s what happens. I\u2019d also note that the organised crime unit, along with the customs and other groups, dismantled 10 significant trans-national crime groups\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3aff93f537b4663b816e0781dd600c4\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227528834b67ab4964a298ba6c76124ecf\u0022\u003EMATT KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u201410\u2014and 394 kilograms of meth and 644 kilograms of precursors were seized. During the 2016-17 year, police responded to a million events, 900,000 triple-one calls, and conducted two million breath tests. So we\u2019re not mucking around\u2014or the police are not mucking around; I keep thinking of myself as still a police officer and I\u2019m not. It\u2019s been 10 years since I\u2019ve been out. Total crimes dropped by 1 percent and there was a 20 percent reduction in house burglaries. I recall the days\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022250cab6e50b04d06b0b4c0e98a18a000\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022250cab6e50b04d06b0b4c0e98a18a000\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member. The time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. I will resume the Chair at 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00229cfda81e4f604b0d8766075665418045\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cfda81e4f604b0d8766075665418045\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the committee report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EProgress reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022517d0a11791f440b94e74979f51fa4a7\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224755720fe1a04bc7a46157d03e38c7b9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00228741d4e01d874b7c94878b82f283c8d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228741d4e01d874b7c94878b82f283c8d6\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to correct the record regarding a statement made in the House today, Tuesday, 10 April, in question time\u2014question No. 8. I seek leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022128d08d5ac834acd8f22343b317c78d2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022768c0d9345f04259808035bdbbcde04f\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I confirmed that I had met with Crown Irrigation Ltd officials during my time as the current Minister of Agriculture. I wish to correct this to \u201CI met with Crown Irrigation Ltd officials in my time prior to becoming the current Minister of Agriculture, and I have met with officials from Irrigation New Zealand during my time as the current Minister of Agriculture.\u201D Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252984715d4f24d798cc1b66e30fd0014\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002218692af55936428e9671ac5ad8f5fe04\u0022\u003ECoroners (Access to Body of Dead Person) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002216130a042dcc46f4a795912b34b75543\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00221db01bc03a2d4c61a6797335be78339a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221db01bc03a2d4c61a6797335be78339a\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Coroners (Access to Body of Dead Person) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe bill implements part of the Government\u2019s response to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u2019s report Inquiry into wh\u0101nau access to and management of t\u016Bp\u0101paku. The bill will codify the current practice of coroners and ensure that all cultural beliefs, including tikanga M\u0101ori, continue to be recognised and supported in our coronial system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBefore I discuss the changes made by the bill, I\u2019d first like to recognise the work of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee in initiating and conducting their inquiry last Parliament. I\u2019d also like to thank the submitters who took the time to share their views and experiences of the coronial system with the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is a culturally diverse country and so it\u2019s fundamental that we continue to improve the experiences of wh\u0101nau during what is an incredibly difficult time for all involved. An estimated 31,000 deaths occur in New Zealand each year, most of which are the result of natural causes. Approximately 20 percent of these deaths are referred to the coroner to be investigated, which is over 5,000 deaths being considered by coroners each year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EA coroner\u2019s role is to investigate the cause and circumstances of sudden unexplained or suspicious deaths. Importantly, they identify lessons that can be learnt to prevent similar deaths in the future. I\u2019d like to take this opportunity to commend the high standard of work carried out by our coroners and our coronial case managers every day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Affairs Committee initiated their inquiry in 2016 to respond to concerns raised by wh\u0101nau regarding their access to and management of the t\u016Bp\u0101paku of wh\u0101nau members. The committee made eight recommendations to the Government, and the Government\u2019s response was tabled in the House earlier this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe Coroners Act establishes the coronial framework in New Zealand and regulates wh\u0101nau access to t\u016Bp\u0101paku. The Act seeks to balance the cultural and spiritual needs of family and those in a close relationship with the person who has died with the public good associated with a proper and timely understanding of the causes of death. The Government considers that the overall coronial system, extending from the police leading the response at the scene of an unexpected death through to collection of the deceased\u2019s body by the family-nominated funeral director, responds well to cultural and religious needs. However, there are always opportunities to improve the responsiveness of the coronial system to cultural considerations, and it\u2019s important that we listen to the views of the people in our society. We wanted to make sure that we carefully consider all opportunities for improvement in this area and make the necessary changes when required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe Coroners Act sets out what coroners must consider when making decisions about who can view, touch, or remain near the body. Currently, section 26 provides that coroners can take tikanga M\u0101ori into account when making these decisions, but it is not an explicit requirement under the Act. One of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u2019s recommendations was to amend section 26 of the Act to provide an explicit requirement that coroners take account of cultural considerations when determining who can view, touch, or remain near the t\u016Bp\u0101paku. The Government accepted this recommendation, and this bill implements this recommendation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe ability to stay with the deceased and carry out traditional cultural activities is an important feature of many cultures, religions, and ethnicities. It\u2019s a traditional M\u0101ori cultural practice that immediate wh\u0101nau do not leave the t\u016Bp\u0101paku until burial. As New Zealand is made up of many diverse cultures and people of different religions, we wanted to make sure that all cultural beliefs, including tikanga M\u0101ori, continued to be recognised and supported during what is a challenging time for wh\u0101nau and all other parties involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EImportantly, this bill does not aim to change the current practice of coroners. The bill codifies current practice, as coroners are already working closely with wh\u0101nau to determine when it is appropriate for wh\u0101nau to remain with the t\u016Bp\u0101paku. I\u2019ve also invited the Chief Coroner to issue practice guidelines under the Act for coroners to follow when making decisions under section 26. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to ensuring that all cultures and religious beliefs continue to be recognised and respected in New Zealand, and I believe that this bill will help to achieve that commitment. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022528d46b05c524d5082efa716a212fb04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022528d46b05c524d5082efa716a212fb04\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to talk to the Coroners (Access to Body of Dead Person) Amendment Bill at its first reading. This is a bill whose time has come. I recall chairing a working party into the care of people who were dying, back in the 1990s. The way that the coroner and the way that people were allowed to engage with dead bodies was considered a very difficult issue at that time, and was one that was needing an overhaul.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation, which has come out of the hard-working M\u0101ori Affairs Committee process, did make a recommendation on improving cultural considerations, and the way that people relate to bodies is a very important and perhaps overdue thing. T\u016Bp\u0101paku is something that needs to happen, but I guess it\u2019s a little bit hard to fathom why this Government didn\u2019t just form it into a wider part of the reform of the coronial system. After all, there are many other aspects to the wider reforms that could have been brought into play with this. It is a little hard to understand why, for such a very narrowly focused piece of legislation\u2014I mean, you could call it lightweight legislation from a lightweight Government\u2014they didn\u2019t just weave it into a wider piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think that it will be a good thing for this M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, having recommended it, to make it go through. I think also it\u2019s probably part of a wider discussion that New Zealanders need to have about death and the way we relate to dead bodies and the different cultural considerations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da49609fbcaf4cc89337661564e6f7be\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253a14a83dd0e478c93b246c7b407e1b2\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that each cultural group brings to it. The Government may laugh at this, but it is a serious issue. But, again, I do wonder why it is taking up so much House time. It implements recommendations that are sensible. It is very narrowly focused. It\u2019s hard to fathom why you would not support it. It\u2019s also hard to fathom why it is not part of a wider context. I won\u2019t delay the timing of the House any longer on this. I think there is widespread support for it, and so be it. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022068d5f43ceea4991bfc14f28ed25f070\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022068d5f43ceea4991bfc14f28ed25f070\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to take a call to support this bill. This bill is about tikanga M\u0101ori. It\u2019s about culture and religious needs in today\u2019s multicultural Aotearoa. I thank the member who just resumed her seat, the Hon Maggie Barry, and take it that National will support this bill. This bill is in good spirit, as we witnessed last Tuesday when the House unanimously passed the legislation called Criminal Records (Expungement of Convictions for Historical Homosexual Offences) Bill. No longer would gay people in that situation be subject to specific offences under the Crimes Act 1961 or Crimes Act 1908.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThis bill is exactly the same: a good spirit. I thank the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee for initiating and conducting the inquiry in the last Parliament. This bill implements the recommendation of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee report, Inquiry into wh\u0101nau access to and management of t\u016Bp\u0101paku, to improve cultural considerations in the coronial systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI would like to echo what the Minister Andrew Little just said: that this bill is about striking the right balance. Specifically, this bill will amend section 26 of the Coroners Act 2006 to provide a specific requirement for coroners to take cultural considerations into account. At the moment, there is no such kind of specific requirement, or specific statutory requirement, but, in practice, the coroners do take such considerations and do have such discretion to do so. So this bill will codify the good practice, and enshrines and acknowledges the best practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EAs the Minister said, the Minister of Justice also invited the Chief Coroner to issue practice guidelines under the Act for coroners to follow when making decisions under section 26. It is crucial that, to the extent possible, all cultural beliefs are recognised and supported. For many, at a time when a loved one has passed away, this is especially important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ESo, again, this bill, by amending section 26, codifies and enshrines the best practice and it strikes a good balance. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u00222b0327ea52da4fff9dc3df2e21656bc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b0327ea52da4fff9dc3df2e21656bc9\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Ko te hau mua. Ko te hau muri. Ko te hau tamawahine. Ko te hau tamat\u0101ne. E t\u016B mai r\u0101 te tokotoko a T\u0101ne-nui-\u0101-Rangi. E tuturu mau kia whakamau kia tina (tina) haumi e, hui e, taiki e!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[The wind in front of us. The wind behind us. The female wind. The male wind. Let the staff of T\u0101ne-nui-\u0101-Rangi stand tall. Let this prayer be made firm, be made fast, make it fast, all together, it is done!]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EKo t\u0113nei pire ko te Coroners (Access to Body of Dead Person) Amendment Bill. Ka hoki ki te p\u016Brongo a te Komiti Whiriwhiri Take M\u0101ori; ko te uiui n\u0101, ki te \u0101hei atu me te whakahaere a te wh\u0101nau i te t\u016Bp\u0101paku.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[This bill, the Coroners (Access to Body of Dead Person) Amendment Bill, takes us back to the report of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee; that inquiry addresses the ability of the family to control what happens to a deceased person.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThe genesis of this bill was by way of an inquiry that was undertaken by the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee in the 51st Parliament. Tonight, I want to acknowledge, first of all, the honourable Metiria Turei, who was responsible for instigating this particular inquiry, and also another P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki wahine, now the co-leader of the Green Party, who was also responsible for developing the terms of reference for the inquiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EAlso, it\u2019s important to acknowledge parliamentarians that are not here any more, and particularly Marama Fox from the P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and our own Chester Borrows, and also Pita Paraone, who gave us so much wise insight into Te Ao M\u0101ori. All of these former parliamentarians were instrumental in guiding this inquiry to its very successful, we believe, conclusion. Can I also acknowledge the Hon Andrew Little, who has brought this bill to the House, and our appreciation as to acknowledging one part of it, particularly the dignity that we have for the t\u016Bp\u0101paku.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EIn light of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee inquiry, we now have a bill before us tonight that amends section 26 of the Coroners Act 2006. What it does is it improves the cultural considerations of the coronial system. Currently, the Act does not require coroners to take cultural considerations into account under section 26, but they also have a discretion to do so. Looking at it and listening to the submitters, a lot of that discretion wasn\u2019t undertaken. A number of the submitters reported that the fact is that they felt there was a lot of cultural negativity during the management of a deceased person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ECan I also say that the inquiry was initiated in response to many wh\u0101nau regarding access to, and management of, the t\u016Bp\u0101paku as culturally insensitive. So this particular bill, and part of it, goes quite a way to addressing some of those concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s also important to note that while the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee concentrated on M\u0101ori cultural aspects under the terms of reference, the inquiry was not purely restricted just to M\u0101ori. We tried to cover all New Zealanders with an interest in these issues. So when the submitters did come, there were a number of ethnic communities that came to submit, and when we saw this\u2014exactly what M\u0101ori were talking about was also what they were talking about and they were experiencing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EIn regard, then, to the bill, I think this very much reflects the bill and, hopefully, the diversity, particularly, that is reflected in the over 200 ethnicities that are part of the New Zealand population. I think, though, more consideration will need to occur as we grapple with the component of the coroners\u2019 work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ECan I, finally, just say that it was incredibly moving to hold this inquiry and actually listen not only to those that were wh\u0101nau but also to the incredible work that is done by the coronial services; also, the police as well; medical; health\u2014you know, all of that. They came with their stories, and to me this is a reflection of the success of that inquiry. For that reason, we support this bill to select committee and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u0100piti hono, t\u0101tai hono, r\u0101tou ki te hunga mate, ki te hunga mate, ki a r\u0101tou, \u0101piti hono, t\u0101tai hono, t\u0101tou ki te hunga ora, ki te hunga ora, ki a r\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[The deceased should be left to rest in peace while the living resume their business in the world of the living.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ELet the dead be the dead and the living be the living. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002224df33f1c8db43b783a14435c8a16d4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224df33f1c8db43b783a14435c8a16d4b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call\u2014[Interruption] Are you calling? I call Mark Patterson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u002215d688d67918439cb486b56148d106ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215d688d67918439cb486b56148d106ee\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry\u2014as I just organise myself here for this bill, the Coroners (Access to Body of Dead Person) Amendment Bill. As we have heard, this is to amend section 26 of the Coroners Act, the 2006 Act. It is to take into account cultural considerations within that particular piece of legislation. I note this is the response to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee inquiry, and I note the names that were mentioned in the contribution of the previous speaker, Nuk Korako. He did neglect, I think\u2014if I\u2019m wrong\u2014to say that he was the chairman of that committee that shepherded this through. So congratulations to you, Nuk, for shepherding this important piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIt might not be something that is on everyone\u2019s mind all the time, but for those people that are bereaved it is hugely important and it is genuinely significant, and I think it does behove us to take this piece of legislation and bring it forward so that it does allow the opportunity for comfort for those families that do find themselves in this situation. And we all do, eventually, from time to time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThis allows us to take into account ethnic considerations. We know that New Zealand is a much more multicultural society than what it was, you know, 20 years ago or 10 years ago. I think almost a quarter of our population were born overseas. We\u2019ve got people here from almost every country of the world, and they\u2019re not necessarily sharing the same cultures. Maybe, as the indigenous people or the P\u0101keh\u0101 settlers\u2014who maybe were more predominant in our previous times\u2014we need to take their considerations into account too, and that was part of that submission process. Our social attitudes, of course, have changed, as well, over time, and I think that is something that we need to take into account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EBut, of course, I think we\u2019re particularly focusing here on the spiritual beliefs of M\u0101ori and tikanga M\u0101ori and t\u016Bp\u0101paku\u2014that\u2019s the M\u0101ori term for dead body, I understand. I\u2019m a slightly unlikely champion for M\u0101ori spirituality. It\u2019s not something that I\u2019ve been around so much in my life, but I know matua Shane Jones and Jenny Marcroft, those that are immersed in that culture within our caucus and who are probably more appropriate to be speaking to this bill this evening, have certainly imparted upon me how important it is to the M\u0101ori culture to honour the body, to not just allow it to head off and maybe see it just before the funeral or whatever, as we may do in European culture. It is certainly something in their spiritual DNA that they wish to have a much more literally hands-on involvement, and this bill allows for\u2014not only viewing\u2014touching and remaining near the body for immediate family members only.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EAs we heard in Mr Little\u2019s contribution to the bill, there are 5,000 coroner investigations, so this is not something that is rare at all\u201420 percent of deaths going to the coroner; I did not know that. So that shows that this is probably something that is more widespread in its importance than maybe, at first glance, we would think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThis bill does implement the recommendations of the select committee inquiry. There were 40 submissions. They included the Human Rights Commissioner, the Chief Coroner, some very credible advocates, and also individuals. There\u2019s one here that I will read out which, I think, signifies what we\u2019re talking about here. This is a lady of part-Samoan, part-M\u0101ori descent who had her husband\u2014of only 43-years-old\u2014go into the coroner\u2019s process and found that that process lacked empathy. In it she quotes, \u201CIt is imperative that Cultural values are adhered to\u2014wh\u0101nau are in a state of tapu\u2014in a place so dark not being able to even touch my husband and wipe the dirt off his face was horrific \u2026 very disrespectful. I left that night and could not go back because I couldn\u2019t touch or clean him. My husband hated being dirty.\u201D So you can just see the emotion dripping off that quote, and it just shows how important that is. And I know, even from my own recent experience of a bereavement, having gone through that, it is very therapeutic to be able to respect the body and sort of use that as part of the grieving in dealing with that process. I can actually empathise with that sentiment quite keenly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo this looks to enshrine best practice. Of course, we know that it doesn\u2019t\u2014I think the coroner\u2019s profession are working very hard to allow these things to happen anyway, so we\u2019re sort of enshrining best practice, as has been said, but, as that last quote shows, that\u2019s not always the case. It\u2019s not consistent across all jurisdictions. So I think that this will help to bring this into a more formalised situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo, without further ado, I think, on behalf of New Zealand First we commend the Minister for bringing this forward. We support the bill, and we look forward to the select committee maybe looking at it a little bit in time, to make sure that it has enough breadth within its scope. I think we don\u2019t want to maybe narrow it down to just M\u0101ori or Pasifika people\u2014that all people have access, and even maybe the Scottish Presbyterians amongst us would get our time in to grieve as well, if we so wanted to go down that path. It might not necessarily be our cultural norm, but we may feel, in that moment, that that\u2019s what we want to do and, hopefully, that allows that we wouldn\u2019t be precluded from doing that either. The select committee will probably look at those parameters and how it can be tidied up, but I think the general principle is extremely sound. It will make our society a better place, and we commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u00226f6e95c9644046ff800d85e87f5f03d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f6e95c9644046ff800d85e87f5f03d9\u0022\u003EJO HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you. I stand to take a call on the Coroners (Access to Body of Dead Person) Amendment Bill. Just to give you a little bit of background, I was on the select committee the day that Metiria Turei came in and put the inquiry on to the table of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, where we were able to discuss it. So I want to acknowledge her for the work that she did in being instrumental in bringing this inquiry to the select committee, and I also want to congratulate and acknowledge Marama Davidson for your new role as co-leader of the Greens but also for carrying forward this inquiry on behalf of Metiria and the Greens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI also want to set a few things straight. The actual focus of this bill was not spiritual; it was actually a cultural thing and it went across all ethnicities. It doesn\u2019t just only identify M\u0101ori in this bill; it\u2019s all ethnicities that have connection to their t\u016Bp\u0101paku, their loved one, the dead person. It is their ability to work with the coroner\u2019s group to actually be able to care for their loved one, their t\u016Bp\u0101paku. That\u2019s what the guts of this bill is all about. So I just wanted to make sure we got that pretty clear in the House as to why this bill is here and who it\u2019s actually for: it\u2019s for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EA lot of the things that have been said today, I do thank you, especially with what my colleague Nuk Korako spoke about in the way that this bill came and the previous members\u2014Metiria Turei, Marama Fox, and Chester Borrows\u2014who were instrumental in making sure that a lot of the shaping around some of the information that would go into this inquiry would actually come forward on our side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EThe other thing is I also want to acknowledge those who came and shared their stories with us about their experience working with the coroner\u2019s office and some of the coroners as well. Some of them were very heart-rending. On a personal side, I did not experience half of the things that I heard through the inquiry. However, I had that feeling deep inside about what they were going through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003ESo, without any further ado, many of the things that have needed to be said around this bill have been said. As I said, I just wanted to straighten out a few things that were actually said by the previous speaker, Mark Patterson. I want to acknowledge the Minister of Justice for bringing the bill in and sponsoring the bill through. So, without any further ado, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9b0baf4b87f4700a3ef8a2aa9300ab5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9b0baf4b87f4700a3ef8a2aa9300ab5\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Deputy Speaker. It\u2019s really special and important, actually, to be standing on behalf of the Green Party to support the Coroners (Access to Body of Dead Person) Amendment Bill, for so many reasons that other members have outlined. I will absolutely start with a mihi of heartfelt thanks to former co-leader Metiria Turei of the Green Party, who brought this piece of work to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, borne from personal experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWhat I will say is that across the select committee\u2014and this was, again, typical of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u2014this was a very collaborative, very united piece of work and approach, partly because across the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee members, we each had either personal experience of or knowledge of a person close to us who had experienced or undergone some challenges and difficulties when wanting to maintain some control and feeling of control of the dead person, of the t\u016Bp\u0101paku, at such a grief-stricken time. We were all able to relate personally in some way to the very problem at the core of what this piece of legislation is trying to address. That\u2019s what drove this inquiry to be such a unified and cohesive inquiry across the select committee, because we all saw the heart issue at the core of what we were trying to address. So I have absolute appreciation for and am profoundly grateful to Metiria Turei, but I did want to acknowledge Nuk Korako, the chair of that M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, in the way that we took that process through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EAs you can imagine, asking for people to come and talk to a formal room and, in the MPs, a bunch of mostly strangers about one of the most incredibly personal experiences that a human could ever go through, and pouring their experience out to a very formal room of MPs is a really generous thing to ask them to do, but they came, and they shared their stories with us, simply to try and help us do better as lawmakers, to try and help us make a decision about what needs to be changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESome of these stories were harrowing, and I want to particularly acknowledge\u2014I did some travel to Parihaka, actually, to listen to their marae and the wh\u0101nau at Parihaka about their stories of engaging with agencies around accessing t\u016Bp\u0101paku. One of the particular stories was about the loss of a baby. That is probably the most harrowing event that a human could ever go through. It was that particular story of the difficulties that a grieving mother, in a state of emotion that I personally cannot imagine nor do justice to with words, and how a baby was ripped from her arms after passing away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo there needed to be an understanding that this is such an important issue, and for us, we have the opportunity as lawmakers to address this. Actually, I want to acknowledge those coroners. Most times, there is an incredible effort to try and cater to the needs of families and wh\u0101nau. I want to acknowledge the efforts that coroners and various other agencies make when it comes to accessing the bodies of the dead person of the loved one. They are being innovative and going out of their way. Recently, for example, we lost our community leader in Manurewa, Damon Heke, and I understand that some incredible consideration was made to allow the wh\u0101nau to stay with him when ordinarily that wouldn\u2019t happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI mean, things like family being able to stay at the agency, things like family being able to travel with and stay with that t\u016Bp\u0101paku for as much as is practicably possible. If Madam Deputy Speaker would allow me somewhat, there was memory that came back to me tonight with this bill that I wouldn\u2019t mind just putting on the floor of the House to indicate, again, the importance of feeling like you are in control of the process when your loved one has passed on and that you can be near. When my cousin passed away many years ago\u2014he drowned in Lake Pupuke, and we didn\u2019t find him for a night. He was diving, and he was on the bottom of the lake, and we stayed on the lake\u2014slept under the stars\u2014until he could be found, because such was the importance to remain as close as we possibly could to the t\u016Bp\u0101paku, as much as was practicably possible. That\u2019s a night that I will never, ever forget, and the privilege of sleeping on the side of the lake, taking care of staying close. So, to get back to the bill, this is where this amendment bill has come from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo what it actually is doing\u2014because I too did want to pick up on the fact that in the actual legislation, it is very clear. It\u2019s amending section 26, which provides a list of matters that a coroner must take into account when determining \u201Cwhether to authorise a person \u2026 to view, touch, or remain with or near [a] body\u201D and whether to impose any conditions, and then that list of matters to be taken into account. What this bill is doing is inserting a section that says what must be taken into account: \u201Cthe ethnic origins, social attitudes or customs, or spiritual beliefs of the person who is, or of a person who is suspected to be, the dead person, or of an immediate family member of that person, that customarily require viewing, touching, or remaining with or near the body\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s very clear that it applies to all ethnicities, and not just ethnicities; it actually requires coroners to take into account social attitudes or customs, and that will apply to any person, no matter what your background or customs or practices are. So this is not just a bill of compassion and humanity but it\u2019s also incredibly inclusive, and I\u2019m really proud that this House is putting this through tonight for its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI think I\u2019ve covered a lot of what I wanted to cover\u2014oh, I wanted to note that under this legislation, my understanding is that the Minister of Justice will also consider whether a code of best practice balances cultural considerations with the public interest in finding the cause of death. And I just do have to mention\u2014because it is relevant to this legislation and why this legislation is good is because there is discrepancy in the ethnicity of which deaths are referred to coroners. Nuk Korako will remember that that did come up before us, particularly in the death of babies. So, if that is the case, then we need to make sure\u2014and, you know, looking at the systemic biases in the agency practice is a whole other thing. But if the case is that certain ethnicities\u2014in this case, it is M\u0101ori\u2014are going to be referred more than other ethnicities to coroners, then we need to make sure that the tikanga and cultural considerations are a requirement rather than just a discretionary choice of coroners, and the other stuff will have to be addressed as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI want to finish by saying this is just one of the recommendations that came through the inquiry into the management of t\u016Bp\u0101paku. Oh, by the way, I just want to commend all the members across the House. T\u016Bp\u0101paku is probably one of the most difficult Te Reo words that you could ever have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be67ba20dd914a4194a6ce77901b44c0\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Not really.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226a6bad9b9e44fccb7f1e87097db7ea6\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I think it is, Chris\u2014but I think that everyone has been making a good effort\u2014and it is hard. T\u016B-p\u0101-paku\u2014t\u016Bp\u0101paku. The inquiry\u2014this is one of the recommendations but, in my view, possibly one of the more important ones. So it is a good opportunity that we are putting this through the House tonight. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002222879b0b18db4e2cb4dc82352d338f41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222879b0b18db4e2cb4dc82352d338f41\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise tonight to speak to the Coroners (Access to Body of Dead Person) Amendment Bill, at the first reading. This is a small bill\u2014in fact, it\u2019s a tiny bill\u2014but it will have a rather significant impact for many Kiwis at a very, very difficult time in their lives. Around 31,000 deaths occur in New Zealand each year, of which 20 percent are referred to the coroner. That accounts for around 6,200 Kiwi families who are dealing with a death in their family, who are navigating a process that is necessary but is not always conducive to their way of grieving for their loved ones, and herein lies the issue that this bill attempts to deal with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe bill implements one of the recommendations of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee report, which looks into wh\u0101nau access to, and management of, deceased bodies to improve cultural considerations in the coronial system. The background to this piece of work is that the coroner is not currently required by law to take into account cultural requirements of the deceased and their families. In practice, coroners use their discretion when considering such requests. My first question when looking at this bill was around whether or not there was actually a problem to be solved, given that this discretion by the coroner already exists. After speaking to my learned colleagues, I learnt, and quickly discovered, that, yes, in fact, there was a problem. This discretion was being used by some coroners to varying degrees, but, overall, cultural requirements were not been taken into account, and this was having a rather devastating impact on some families and wh\u0101nau, as we just heard from Marama Davidson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Affairs Committee listened to wh\u0101nau and their concerns around access to, and freedom to make decisions about, their deceased loved ones. They heard situations where wh\u0101nau were not able to be with their deceased loved ones when police referred cases to the coroner. Look, the ability to stay with a deceased person and carry out traditional activities is a really important feature of many cultures\u2014as we\u2019ve heard tonight\u2014religions, and different ethnicities. In tikanga M\u0101ori, immediate family remain with their deceased loved one until that person is buried. In our increasingly multicultural society, it\u2019s really important that we acknowledge these practices and that we ensure that during these really difficult times families are allowed to, within reason, carry them out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ETo that end, as we\u2019ve heard tonight, this bill amends section 26 of the Coroners Act to require the coroner, when determining whether a person\u2019s wh\u0101nau member should be allowed to view, touch, or remain with the deceased, to consider tikanga M\u0101ori and the expectation of other cultures. This bill takes that discretion that was available to the coroner and it makes cultural considerations a requirement. This bill, I think, strikes a really good balance between the cultural needs of wh\u0101nau, with the requirement for a timely and proper understanding of the causes of death.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill, be it a small bill, and a rather timely bill, I believe, given the internationally made statements from a well-known New Zealander regarding the state of New Zealand\u2019s race relations. I wouldn\u2019t repeat the exact statement that was made, because that might get me in trouble with you, Madam Deputy Speaker, of course, as the language was certainly not parliamentary. But the point is that this bill does go in some small way to addressing the concerns of that particular New Zealander. This bill recognises the lack of cultural acknowledgment in our coronial system, and it requires that tikanga M\u0101ori and other cultural practices are followed. I am happy to support this bill to the select committee, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022984f1fb9785b4ae083b595c00f081f11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022984f1fb9785b4ae083b595c00f081f11\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is now a split call\u2014five minutes each. I call Liz Craig.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u00220342a93a7b16419a9eab8795e13cfca6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220342a93a7b16419a9eab8795e13cfca6\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It\u2019s a privilege to speak on the first reading of the Coroners (Access to Body of Dead Person) Amendment Bill. As we know, at the recommendation of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, this bill amends section 26 of the Coroners Act 2006 to provide the explicit requirement that coroners consider tikanga M\u0101ori and the expectations of other cultures when determining who can view, touch, or remain near a dead body in the custody of the coroner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo why is this bill necessary? I just want to talk about a bit of background. In New Zealand, the majority of deaths are actually certified by a doctor, and then the body remains in the custody of the family, but in about 20 percent of cases, what happens if the death is unexpected or sudden, or if the doctor is unable to determine the cause of death? Then it gets referred by the police to the coroner. The coroner then makes an assessment about whether he or she does need to look into this further. If they do decide to look into the death, they need to confirm the identity of the person who\u2019s passed away and also establish the cause of death. In doing so, what they also need to consider is whether a post-mortem is necessary to identify why the person died.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EWhile this is quite a routine process from the police and the coronial point of view, from a wh\u0101nau point of view, it\u2019s a particularly devastating process, because it comes completely out of the blue and at a very, very difficult time. One of the areas that was particularly concerning that featured in a lot of the submissions to the select committee was in the case of sudden, unexpected death in infancy, or SUDI. What SUDI is, basically\u2014as it says by the title\u2014is a sudden, unexpected death of a baby who\u2019s otherwise well. Often, these babies usually peak in the first few months of life; although, babies can pass away up to one year, and there\u2019s a whole lot of known risk factors, but the essential fact of the death is that it\u2019s unexpected. Usually, what happens is baby goes to bed and then is found by parents or caregivers at a later point and has passed away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EBetween 2008 and 2016, of the 495 babies who did die from SUDI, 303 of those were M\u0101ori babies. Because of the sudden nature of these deaths, they were all referred to the coroners. For these families, it\u2019s actually not routine; it\u2019s a completely devastating process, to wake up and find your baby\u2019s passed away, to not understand what\u2019s happened, and then to turn up and have the police coming into your home and conducting what they think it is a routine investigation but asking some questions which are particularly traumatising for families. In that context, for families to not be able to stay with the baby\u2019s body right through the process, it can make a bad situation worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EI just want to read some of the comments from Whakawhet\u016B, who\u2019s the M\u0101ori sudden infant death syndrome prevention group\u2014one of the groups that presented a submission to the select committee. They were talking about their experiences with families in this situation, and what they said is \u201CMany families are often completely unaware or unable to comprehend what has happened to their p\u0113pi. Additionally, many of these wh\u0101nau are younger parents who feel they have already been judged as a result of them being simply, younger parents.\u201D They went on to say, \u201CGiven the fact that M\u0101ori are significantly younger parents, the system must ensure these parents and wh\u0101nau are provided with even more support and advice that is readily available, [and it\u2019s] accessible and appropriate [so that] should they have to deal with [this] unfortunate situation \u2026 whether [it be] from SUDI or [for another cause].\u201D So we really need to have a duty of care for families in this situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo what this bill does is it amends section 26 of the Act to require the coroner, when determining whether someone should stay with the body, to consider tikanga M\u0101ori and the expectations of other cultures. Currently, the Act doesn\u2019t require the coroner to take these factors into account, but they do have the discretion to do so. In current practice, coroners do work with wh\u0101nau to work out what the best practice is. What this bill, however, does, in the context of an increasingly multicultural society but also from a Treaty perspective, is it codifies best practice. I therefore commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d806455d453b4248969383a0e0a9c831\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d806455d453b4248969383a0e0a9c831\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a brief call on this first reading of the Coroners (Access to Body of Dead Person) Amendment Bill. This bill requires lively engagement and debate on what is a deadly serious piece of proposed legislation. This bill, should it continue to sustain life and passage into law, will require more than Royal assent; it will require many Government cents and dollars and responsible sentiment and sensitivities to ensure that the intent of the amendment is met and satisfied. In other words, intent is all well and good. What is required to the amendment, and not simply discretionary, is the resourcing to enable and satisfy the intent giving an extended life to the efficacy of this amendment bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EWhenever I stand to address this House, I shall, as a matter of practice, endeavour to reference that upon which I speak to those whom I know or am aware have another or greater knowledge base or experience and skill. So I stand and speak this evening premised on not only my own personal and professional experiences but those of my coronial colleagues, and when I say coronial colleagues\u2014people I practised law with, but they have advanced and been elevated to the status of coroner, whilst I\u2019ve still practised as a lawyer. Thus I speak and address this House in my capacity not only as National MP for Whanganui and a member of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, but also as mana w\u2019enua, M\u0101ori of Whanganui, with cultural tikanga protocols to adhere to in the context of that which I am experiencing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI also speak as a former lawyer and district health board governor with relationships to the police, iwi liaison personnel dealing with deceased persons and wh\u0101nau, the coroner, the Coronial Services of New Zealand, health professionals, funeral directors, community leaders, and, most importantly, wh\u0101nau of the deceased person. I also speak from my own personal experience, stricken with the death of loved ones and the desire to have immediate, hands-on contact with and access to our deceased person, t\u016Bp\u0101paku, and finding that compliance with the law necessarily restricts that. But in terms of that necessary intervention, there are ways of minimising the most harrowing, sorrowful, anguished moments in our life, and this amendment will enable that to occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThe amendment to the law will aid in easing the passage of the deceased, the t\u016Bp\u0101paku, through the legal process, acknowledging and heeding cultural customs and practices in a timely and culturally appropriate sensitive-management way of releasing the body back to the wh\u0101nau, but bearing in mind also from an evidential basis\u2014I say as a lawyer\u2014the importance, where there is a suspicious and sudden death, not to compromise the validity of the necessary evidence that\u2019s required. Other members in this House have spoken about the inquiry into the wh\u0101nau access, and particularly those of my colleagues who sat on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI wish to connect with you in the way that I have had a personal, enduring, collegial friendship and association with the now Deputy Chief Coroner, Brandt Shortland. Over the years and the times that we have reconnected, he\u2019s talked about his duty and responsibility. He\u2019s been a practising lawyer, like me, for 30 years, although he advanced into the coronial service of 11 years\u2019 practice, and more recently has been New Zealand\u2019s Deputy Chief Coroner for almost 3 years, the only M\u0101ori to ascend to this level of responsibility. Deputy Chief Coroner Shortland was one of the 27 submitters to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, and he\u2019s spoken about his experiences not only as a coroner but as a M\u0101ori coroner navigating the relationships between wh\u0101nau, and also many other ethnic groupings, associated with the sudden, unexpected death of their loved one. He has talked about the importance of building relationships of trust with those engaging with all those professional bodies and groupings that I spoke about, but, more importantly, the wh\u0101nau relationships.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ETime is of the essence. When this bill takes its passage to the second reading, I will talk further around the importance of resourcing this amendment, which to date has been discretionary. Also, my friend has indicated that coroners for many years, although not required to, have actually been implementing the practice that will be requisite under this legislation. I sense the cross-party support that\u2019s in the House this evening. I sense that there will be many cents of the Government required to sustain this in terms of the resourcing and implementation of it. And, in conclusion, I commend that the bill is kept alive and that the body of it is given access and passage to the select committee. I commend this bill to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022f909633eca934a168cbc7a3d0f482e7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f909633eca934a168cbc7a3d0f482e7c\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am privileged to stand here to take a call on the Coroners (Access to Body of Dead Person) Amendment Bill. When I first saw, earlier this evening, that I was going to be taking a call on this bill, I wondered very hard about this particular topic, but the more I\u2019ve researched into it over the last couple of hours the more privileged I feel to be actually standing here in front of the House talking about this particular bill. I\u2019d like to thank the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee of the 51st Parliament for the work that they did in their inquiry into wh\u0101nau access and into management of t\u016Bp\u0101paku. I\u2019m almost embarrassed to say that word now that Marama\u2019s said that it\u2019s the most difficult word. I thought, \u201COh, am I going to be able to get that out?\u201D But a big thankyou to the submitters and the people that told their stories, because it is those stories that have helped form this bill and the importance of this bill. Thanks to the Hon Andrew Little for bringing this bill in front of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThe reason that I feel very privileged to be here talking to this particular piece of legislation is that it is bills such as this that help cultures understand, and it helps, particularly, other cultures understand Te Ao M\u0101ori. I think in this country that that is incredibly, incredibly, critically important, and becoming more so. The more we are able to stand here and talk about such practices, and such practices as the tikanga around death in Te Ao M\u0101ori, the more normal it becomes for all cultures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI want to tell a couple of stories of my own experience around death and how working with Te Ao M\u0101ori and within Te Ao M\u0101ori completely changed the way that I saw that, saw death in the world. I was scared of death and I was scared of dead bodies for a long, long time. I remember as a preschooler seeing my first body, of my great-grandmother, and being really scared going into the funeral home, and nobody putting me at ease in that situation. That sense stayed with me for a long, long time, right through into my adulthood. I lost both my parents fairly soon, fairly young. I was in my early 20s when my parents passed, and I remember vividly\u2014I was teaching in Invercargill at the time when I got news that my father had passed very suddenly, and I will never, ever forget when I got home to Christchurch the devastation of my mother. But part of that devastation was around the fact that she had no idea where my father was, what was happening to him, or who he was in care of at that particular time. Because it was a sudden death, there had been an autopsy, and my mother had no understanding of what was happening. That was a very tragic time for the family. It was harrowing, not only for the fact that we were wondering what was happening to Dad, as well, but for the fact that we were having to work through with Mum in that particular process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThose feelings of negativity and the negativity around that whole natural part of life\u2014because that\u2019s what death is, a natural part of life\u2014stayed with me for quite some time. But then, as I said, I was very privileged to work within Te Ao M\u0101ori in the last school that I was working at. Here was a school who had a demographic of\u2014at one stage over 95 percent of the population were M\u0101ori. In that time I learnt so much about the process of death. I almost say this with apology, because I see it through a lens still as a P\u0101keh\u0101 and still as the greatest learner, so I\u2019m still looking at it from the outside, but I\u2019m understanding the tikanga so much better, and it\u2019s helped my understanding of death, as well. And that\u2019s what Te Ao M\u0101ori does. The tikanga helps make sense for everyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EDansey talks about M\u0101ori understanding death and dying within a specific cultural context in which post-mortems remain a foreign and terrible act for M\u0101ori and that understanding. But for M\u0101ori, death is not an instantaneous event but a process of becoming, and that was the part for me that earlier on in my journey of understanding I never understood. That\u2019s where my cultural outlook was very much a European, English outlook on life. I never understood that it was a process of becoming. So processes for M\u0101ori, and I guess for any culture\u2014and that\u2019s what I like about this bill: we\u2019re not just talking about Te Ao M\u0101ori. That\u2019s where this came from, but we\u2019re talking about all cultures\u2014all cultures\u2014being respected. Processes such as the post-mortem can actually disrupt the wairua of the deceased, causing it to become lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve sat with parents of children that I\u2019ve taught whose older children\u2014there\u2019s one particular story. An older son passed very, very suddenly. This is a few years ago, and this parent did not experience the best practices that we\u2019re seeing happening with our wonderful coroners now. This particular parent was separated from her son, from the t\u016Bp\u0101paku, and couldn\u2019t be with him during that time. I remember her telling me that she felt that his wairua was becoming lost because they were not able to be there with him through the whole process. The observance of tikanga and performance of required rituals and practices such as sitting with the dead are absolutely critically important to those people. And to that particular mum, it was absolutely critical that she stayed, or somebody stayed, with her boy the whole time. The fact that that was taken from her was a terrible wrench to her, but also part of her cultural understanding that her boy\u2019s wairua was completely lost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThis is where this bill is really, really important, because we are able to have those conversations. This is what\u2019s so strong about what we\u2019re doing here. Just changing the law allows people the opportunity to speak about the practice, to speak about the cultural norms, and to speak about what it is important to the cultures, and, hopefully, the experiences that that mother found during that time will never happen again, because we here are tonight, starting to make that change to that law so that we\u2019re given permission to have the conversations that all people of all cultures will understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard here tonight that the bill enshrines good practice. We\u2019ve heard that it codifies current practice, but we also know that the good practice is current, but it\u2019s not everybody. We need to overcome the fact that not all of the coroners are showing good practice. It\u2019s only a minimum, but we need to overcome that minimum as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I am thoroughly honoured to be standing here tonight. I thoroughly commend this bill to the House, but I\u2019d like to finish with this quote from Selket, Glover and Palmer, who in 2014 said this, \u201CAt the heart of these discussions are the observations that such practices [in the coronary process] are embedded within a Western scientific approach; that these values are often at odds with M\u0101ori cultural norms; and that the legal infrastructure typically favours Western science over M\u0101ori values.\u201D Well, tonight, I\u2019m really proud to say that we\u2019re overcoming that legal infrastructure that typically favours Western science. We\u2019re giving value to our M\u0101ori tikanga, and we\u2019re holding it up there, saying this is important and we honour and value you as M\u0101ori. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00224356074fc685419492e8ab14a168e2a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224356074fc685419492e8ab14a168e2a2\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Tonight we\u2019ve heard many people pay tribute to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u2014and I would like to add my voice to those people\u2014who initiated this inquiry two years ago. That\u2019s led us to a recommendation and that recommendation was for a change to the coronial system, and that has us here tonight, discussing the Coroners (Access to Body of Dead Person) Amendment Bill in its first reading. I know that for people on those select committees, it is a very trying time to be hearing heartfelt submissions, and it\u2019s never easy. I\u2019ve been involved in select committees where we have had those heartfelt submissions being presented, and it is hard, so I do acknowledge the time and the compassion that was shown to those submitters and the hearing that they got. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve also heard tonight, over 6,000 deaths are referred to the coroner each year, but, currently, there is no requirement for the coroner to take those cultural considerations into account. This bill does now change those discretionary objectives of the coroner and makes it a requirement that he must determine whether a person should be allowed to remain with the body, and also to consider the tikanga M\u0101ori and the expectations of other cultures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EAt the most emotional and traumatic time for a family, it is totally appropriate that they have the ability to stay with the deceased and carry out traditional activities. In the processes of our diverse cultural nation with our many cultures, our religions, our ethnicities, it\u2019s a vital part of the grieving and the healing at this difficult time. Even though this is a very small bill\u2014it contains only four clauses and there\u2019s a total of only four lines of text\u2014it will make a difference to those people who are involved with the coronial system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EI have to pay tribute to Mark Patterson on the other side of the House. I sat down just in time to see him do his interpretive dance to the dead, which was quite entertaining in the House tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EI do support this bill in its first reading through to select committee and I have pleasure in commending it to the House. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a15297b0105e46dea91fc6e396f86d6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a15297b0105e46dea91fc6e396f86d6d\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Tax and death: the two certainties in life\u2014and, of course, none of us are going to escape the latter. It\u2019s how we deal with that death that really determines so much about how we are judged as a society. This is a very simple bill, as many of the speakers have spoken about, but the simplicity of the bill underlies just how important it is to get it right at this most vital time. One thing that has been somewhat overlooked in the debate is the why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWhen you\u2019re a young police officer, as I once was, far too many years ago, one thing you learn on beginning is that those things that may have attracted you into the police\u2014the fast car chases or the other things that appear nightly on our TV screens\u2014it\u2019s not about that at all. It\u2019s about dealing with people. In fact, the most important thing is dealing with sudden deaths. That, many have spoken about tonight. The understanding\u2014we talk about the coroner\u2014as to why we actually have that percentage of around 20 to 30 percent of deaths that, unfortunately, a medical practitioner does not offer a certificate as to cause. When you\u2019re a young police officer and you turn up, the thing that you always hope for is that you will get from a GP a certificate as to cause of death. Of course, what that means is that the authorities\u2014from the coroner and police\u2014are no longer involved, and the body can then be handed over to the family, and then all those matters that we\u2019ve spoken of tonight, all the needs, the cultural needs, can be met.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EHowever, what this bill is about is those other cases that become coronial cases. Now, it\u2019s often not quite understood what the role of the coroner is. Essentially, the role of the coroner is to establish when, where, how, and why that death occurred. Obviously, these are all things that are covered by the certificate as to cause, which means that the attending practitioner has seen\u2014there are stipulations here: they need to have seen them in a recent period of time and be prepared to actually execute that certificate as to cause. However, establishing the circumstances of the death\u2014ensuring that that when, where, why, and how are ascertained\u2014is where the aggravation, frustration, and other emotions of the family become involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ECertainly, one of the things you learn when you start dealing with these sudden deaths is that your job is to maintain that balance, and that balance is between the requirements of the coroner to establish those very things that I\u2019ve discussed\u2014which he or she must, because that is their job; that is their task\u2014and the needs of the family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EOne learns very early in the piece that it\u2019s not the easiest thing to do, certainly\u2014turning up at a family home where a life has just been turned on its head as a result of the death, in what does become something of a form-filling exercise. At the end of it, the body is actually removed\u2014right in the middle of all this emotion, the body is removed. And that is in the case where there, on the surface of it, don\u2019t appear to be any suspicious circumstances, but, of course, again, the role of those attending police officers and those first attending is to ensure, in fact, what they see is actually what has occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe ABC of policing is to accept nothing, believe no one, and corroborate everything, because there have been many cases\u2014and many, I\u2019m sure, have resulted in criticism and questions in this House\u2014where, subsequently, those that have been, what we say, written off as a sudden death did turn out to be the result of foul play. And that is why we come to the absolute need to ensure that we get that balance right, while it is incredibly important, as all speakers have touched on tonight, to make sure that the cultural requirements, the cultural necessities, and just the cultural deserves of those we\u2019re dealing with are actually met.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo when we say, \u201Cthe when\u201D, I think of my own personal experience of the starkness of perhaps the different culture in the way we deal with death. There was a case I was involved in in Castlepoint, when I was working in the Wairarapa, where a body was discovered during the weekend. It would appear it was a mother and daughter, and it certainly would appear that that body had been a result of an incident that had occurred post-European times\u2014just, in fact, in the last 30 or 40 years. So it was wound up. We had basically, essentially, the beginnings of a homicide inquiry, until relatively early in the piece it was discovered, or was ascertained, that it was pre-European\u2014the body was pre-European. Of course, at that stage, there was clearly no\u2014the cause of death was natural. At that stage, of course, a whole new cultural norm came in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI remember being particularly impressed with how quickly the word got around and that, in fact, within the culture and with the memory of the local iwi, they did remember and were able to place this particular person who we\u2019d found. And instead of this body being removed in a, say, European and a very controlled way, which it would have been to preserve the evidence, of course, it was a very different way in which it was treated. And that was a very stark reminder to me of the different way things are dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EOf course, there is also establishing where the death had occurred. And this again is why it\u2019s really incredibly important that that work is done at the time, because often bodies are moved, particularly where there are suspicious circumstances. So, again, it\u2019s important to establish the \u201Cwhere\u201D\u2014what occurred and where it is\u2014and that when we\u2019re reporting back the coroner we have got it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAgain, at the risk of standing here telling war stories, I recall another case where I was involved where bodies\u2014it was, again, a Sunday afternoon\u2014a number of bodies, kept turning up in the river, and it started out looking incredibly suspicious as to what had happened. We were very quickly able to go back and establish that it was a tragedy: a father and two sons were actually crossing a river when there had been a cloudburst and a flash flood through this river, which had, tragically, carried them away. So it was something that on the surface of it\u2014in fact, because of the river, the force of the river, two of the three of them had ended up losing all their clothing\u2014was going to take a lot of explanation, but by reconstructing and being able to work out exactly where things occurred, we were able to go back to the coroner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAgain, all these things happened with grieving families watching\u2014making sure that we treated them with a sensitivity but, again, making sure that we got the details necessary. If you look at the bill, that is why the balance is right in making sure we do treat it with cultural sensitivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EOf course, how it occurred\u2014this is the crux of why\u2014[Bell rung] I\u2019m only at three war stories and I\u2019m already near at the end of my time. But how this occurred, again, is exactly why the crux of this bill\u2014so why the coroner still must be involved. The coroner must with all confidence be able to, at the end of this exercise, ascertain exactly what did occur\u2014of course, with the why, which is the motive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIn fact, the situation has become more complicated with the DNA. In fact, now there\u2019s a necessity to ensure there\u2019s absolutely no chance that there will be any contamination of the body in any other way. Actually, what also adds on to, I suppose, the family who may be watching is not only police officers turning up but turning up the way they are clad, where there\u2019s no chance of any contamination of any more DNA, which, again, adds to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThis legislation even becomes more relevant to actually enshrine this in legislation, to ensure that as the advances in science, as the way we treat\u2014particularly, again, I\u2019m referring always to coroner\u2019s cases, but mostly to those cases of suspicious death. It becomes more relevant to ensure that in those cases, as we require more and more, shall we say, preservation of the scene, we do take note of the absolute necessity to keep the cultural requirements and the family requirements intact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo I do commend this bill to the House, and I believe it is a bill that has its time. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBill referred to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cfc3b59ed6174543891ea845d8a1bdea\u0022\u003EPrivacy Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002201c4b898ecea48d88c0cac9d6c2c45c4\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00227dd63e605eb646b482c54e5c92a5da90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227dd63e605eb646b482c54e5c92a5da90\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Privacy Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fd828b69a334d74821d1443762817a4\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Well done on moving the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f3a64e49386423abc589e89816f08d2\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d be tempted to sit down now, but I know Mr Finlayson will have much to contribute to this very important debate, since this bill goes back to its initial preparation in 2012, which was only six years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill is to promote and protect people\u2019s privacy\u2014that\u2019s self-evident\u2014and to give them confidence that their personal information is properly protected. The Privacy Act, the current one, was enacted 25 years ago. Since then, information technology has revolutionised how we deal with personal information. We are collecting, storing, and disclosing more personal information than ever before, using social media, e-commerce, interconnected devices, cloud storage, and other new technologies\u2014all familiar to Mr Finlayson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENowadays, personal information can be easily distributed around the world and large quantities of data are readily stored, retrieved, and disclosed. This creates new challenges for protecting personal information. A regime that is focused on early identification and prevention of privacy risks, rather than after-the-fact remedies, is required. In 2011, the Law Commission called for the Privacy Act to be repealed and replaced with a modernised law. This Privacy Bill largely achieves that purpose. It will strengthen privacy protections and better address the challenges of the digital age. It also modernises the language of the Act to make it more accessible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAs the Law Commission suggested, the Privacy Bill retains the existing Act\u2019s 12 information privacy principles\u2014or IPPs, as they are apparently known. The IPPs apply to public- and private-sector agencies. They provide a framework for handling personal information at all points of its life cycle, from collection to destruction. They provide important protections, such as a right for people to access and correct personal information about themselves, and a requirement for agencies to collect personal information from the person concerned directly. Agencies also must ensure there are reasonable safeguards against loss, misuse, or disclosure of personal information, and they must not use or disclose personal information for purposes other than for which it was collected. The Privacy Bill introduces new mechanisms to promote early intervention and risk management by agencies, rather than relying on people making complaints after a privacy breach has already happened. The bill\u2019s reforms will also enhance the role of the Privacy Commissioner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOne of the key reforms in the Privacy Bill is a new requirement for agencies to report privacy breaches. A privacy breach is any unauthorised access to or disclosure, loss, or destruction of personal information. It can also include a ransomware attack. Privacy breaches that pose a risk of harm to people must be notified to affected individuals and to the Privacy Commissioner. There are some exceptions to the requirement to notify people about privacy breaches, such as when this would prejudice New Zealand\u2019s security, prejudice the maintenance of law, or endanger someone\u2019s safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EPrivacy breaches can affect people significantly. It\u2019s important people are aware of what has happened to their personal information so they can take steps to prevent any harm. Requiring agencies to notify affected people and the Privacy Commissioner of privacy breaches brings New Zealand law into the digital era and aligns it with overseas best practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe Privacy Bill also gives the Privacy Commissioner new powers. It allows the commissioner to issue compliance notices, which will require an agency to do something or stop doing something in accordance with the bill. For example, if an agency frequently experiences notifiable privacy breaches without taking any steps to change their practice, the commissioner will be able to issue a compliance notice to require them to act. This power will enable the commissioner to take more proactive steps to address privacy concerns. Currently, compliance relies on an individual bringing a complaint, rather than allowing the commissioner to address systemic privacy risks and repeated breaches. Issuing compliance notices will fill the gap in the current legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe Privacy Commissioner will also be given the power to make access directions requiring agencies to provide people with access to personal information held about them. Currently, the commissioner can only mediate and make recommendations regarding access. This will streamline the existing complaints resolution process so that people can access their personal information quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIn the digital age, personal information can be easily distributed around the world. We are all aware of the adage\u2014and I paraphrase it now\u2014that lies in: social media can be halfway around the world while truth is still strapping its shoes on. To strengthen privacy protections, New Zealand agencies will now be accountable for ensuring that acceptable safeguards will apply to personal information that is sent overseas. Cross-border disclosures of personal information can generally be made if the information is subject to comparable privacy protections overseas as apply in New Zealand, or the person concerned consents to the disclosure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe bill also clarifies an agency\u2019s obligations when they send the personal information offshore for storage or processing. It provides that personal information is still treated as being held by a New Zealand agency when it is held by another agency for storage or processing. This is the case, even if that other agency is outside New Zealand or holds the information offshore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe bill enhances the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s existing investigation powers by allowing him or her to limit the time frame for an agency to comply with a requirement to provide information and by increasing the penalty for non-compliance. Furthermore, it would be an offence to mislead an agency and to destroy documents containing personal information where a request has been made for it. The maximum penalty is a fine of up to $10,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOver the last few years, international privacy frameworks have been updated to reflect developments. The OECD privacy guidelines, which our Privacy Act gives effect to, were updated in 2013 to include new accountability mechanisms such as requiring data breach notifications. The European Union has also passed a new general data protection regulation\u2014or the GDPR\u2014which includes similar new privacy protections. The GDPR comes into force in May this year. New Zealand is one of the few countries in the world to have obtained adequacy status with the EU\u2019s privacy law. This means that EU countries can provide personal information to New Zealand for processing without needing to provide extra privacy safeguards. The reforms in the Privacy Bill will better align New Zealand\u2019s law with the GDPR and the OECD privacy guidelines. This will assist New Zealand\u2019s case for maintaining its adequacy status. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIn an increasingly digital and data-rich society, the measures in place to protect people\u2019s privacy interests are vitally important. By maintaining the flexible, principles-based framework of the current Act and making key reforms, the Privacy Bill will ensure that our privacy law is up to date, accessible, and has the right safeguards to protect people\u2019s privacy in the digital age. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe bill is not perfect, and even though it had been languishing around for the best part of five or six years and more work could have been done on it, I felt that it was important to bring the bill to the House now so that there will be plenty of opportunity to change and to improve it. The select committee process is very important, and I urge all New Zealanders with an interest in privacy as an issue to come forward and to have their say on the bill, and let\u2019s make this a more perfect piece of legislation to cover this very vital and important area. The new privacy protections that it provides are important, and it will be important for the bill to have maximum scrutiny, not just from members of this House but from all citizens as it works its way through. On that note, I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00223306a45160b24312994bdd81dfbe856d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223306a45160b24312994bdd81dfbe856d\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E I feel it\u2019s appropriate to begin by acknowledging Wahine day. Most people in the House won\u2019t probably believe this, but I was alive in 1968. I couldn\u2019t go to St Benedict\u2019s School that day because of the weather, but I did go round to Seatoun Heights, and\u2014I think I was probably the only person in the House who actually did this\u2014looked down on that beautiful ship after she had foundered in front of Steeple Rock, and looked with horror on the news that night as we learnt that 53 people had died. It was a dreadful day in the history of New Zealand, which is why it was appropriate that the Minister of Transport moved a motion in the House earlier today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI agree with most of what the Minister of Justice has said. Obviously, I don\u2019t agree with the partisan sniping about delay but I agree that this is very important legislation and it is ripe for review. I go to 1993, when the first Privacy Act was passed\u20141993 was an interesting year. Jim Bolger was Prime Minister of our great country. Mike Moore was Leader of the Opposition. Helen Clark knifed him a couple of months later. And, of course, bearing in mind that some things change and other things never change, guess who was a failed Minister at that time? None other than Mr Peters. He had been booted out of Mr Bolger\u2019s Cabinet for incompetence toward the end of 1991, and was languishing on the backbenches. As I say, some things change and some things never change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBut the 1993 Privacy Act was a very\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207402ac4b10c4495a997bcba1e56104b\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Is there anything to do with the bill at all? Got any information about it at all? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221da4f7988b6a49b692793e55a1afead6\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I hear \u201CEliza Doolittle\u201D over there coming to the aid of Mr Peters, and nothing surprises me. But the 1993 Act was passed, and it really was very important legislation because it introduced, for the first time, certain key privacy principles. It established the Office of the Privacy Commissioner, and I acknowledge at once the current commissioner, John Edwards, who I think is doing a very good job. In my dealings with him when I was Minister in charge of the intelligence services\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227546fd926d0d457eb24693a040f907f3\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: He comes from New Plymouth\u2014of course he does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022640b6d09e2e848139fec614ebab69755\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which portfolio the Minister of Justice is now holding with great distinction\u2014I found Mr Edwards excellent to deal with when it came to a review of the intelligence legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBut the Act, as the Minister said, has been operating for 25 years, and in that time, we have seen the enormous exponential growth in the internet\u2014the rise of the digital economy\u2014and that has simply transformed Government and, as the Minister said, the use of private information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThat is why, 25 years on, it is entirely right and proper that this House should be reviewing this legislation and doing so very carefully indeed. That is why the previous Government asked the Law Commission to review the privacy legislation. In 2011, the Law Commission published its excellent report and suggested that what needed to happen was modernisation of the legislation and replacement by legislation that reflects the fact that we live in a completely different age from the age we were living in, when Mr Peters was the failed Minister and the legislation was first passed, in 1993.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220366a5218438470b848b75ff3f240074\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you just hate the fact that he\u2019s the Deputy Prime Minister, don\u2019t you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ae3e804089545558123bf9dd96b2d1f\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, there she\u2019s at it again. She is such a loyal little Chihuahua. New technologies have rapidly advanced the type, the quality, and the quantity of personal information available to Governments and businesses, and so I think this bill is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eff7d6b35dc245e4863ea378b942d9fe\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll miss you\u2014we\u2019ll miss you!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292513a208e494d7b982aa0551c93ccca\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, what is she saying? I don\u2019t know what she\u2019s had for dinner, but she\u2019s certainly weirder than usual tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThis bill is going to go some way to modernising our privacy legislation and will reflect these technological changes. What I like about this bill is that, by and large, it implements most of the Law Commission\u2019s recommendations, along with some additional recommendations from the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s reports. So I agree with the Minister that the best thing we can do is get this away to the select committee, and it\u2019s going to require a very careful analysis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EFor example, I\u2019m very interested in the information privacy principles. I think it\u2019s very important that we take a good look at those and also that we look at the complaints system, because this is a hugely significant area and growing faster than most of us think. In fact, I can recall some years ago reading a report\u2014I think it was produced by Shell\u2014which said that one of the issues that societies around the world are going to have to consider over the next 15 to 20 years is actually the death of privacy and how we cope with that. So this is not some kind of incidental piece of legislation; it\u2019s extremely important, and that is why it deserves very, very careful review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI want to commend the previous Minister of Justice, Amy Adams, who supported these reforms with her customary energy and diligence. A lot of work was done by the previous Government between 2014 and 2017 getting this legislation prepared, and it\u2019s a tribute to Ms Adams that the current Minister of Justice has, basically, introduced her work. So, in a sense, it\u2019s really yet another piece of National Party legislation which has been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d61b599ef034113a6224da8b495340d\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: That you did nothing about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e65df1474a4745ee8b8004373ff6509e\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: And I hear the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bb4afef32a74780b0c8de32b2220b6d\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Six years\u2014six years!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022952f8de9026848efa3796f55bceadd6d\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, takes a lot of time to get these things right, and, as L.V. Martin used to say, it\u2019s the putting right that counts. Privacy reform was a huge priority of the previous Government and it was a very large and comprehensive piece of work\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a7cf74922374e529bd52a9ea96cf36c\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: So why didn\u2019t you finish it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7b19f5b09e1442e994384b42c88dca8\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which was undertaken by the Government, and I have to say, in answer to Mr Hipkins\u2019 unpleasant and inappropriate comments, that as a result of the hard work that was done we\u2019re now in a position where Mr Little can introduce this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ENow, I think there are some substantial parts of work that need to be reviewed. I\u2019d like to know, for example, how the reforms as to how the approved information-sharing agreement mechanisms work and whether or not we can improve on those\u2014but I think the essence of this legislation is to update the 1993 legislation, recognising the new age that we are in and making sure that the legislation balances very strong and effective privacy provisions or protections for individuals with sensible use of data and data sharing by agencies. That was an issue that has come up time and time again: can agencies of the Crown share information; and, if so, on what sorts of terms? Again, that\u2019s an issue that has come up in my time as Minister in charge of the intelligence agencies. I\u2019m sure Mr Little would understand that. So, yes, I agree with Mr Little. It\u2019s entirely appropriate for the legislation to go to the select committee. I hope that there will be good submissions on it and substantial submissions on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe select committee, under the excellent chairmanship of Mr Huo, is looking at the trusts bill at the moment. I have to say, one of the disappointments of the work that we\u2019re doing is that there aren\u2019t enough submissions from the law firms. I know the Law Society and some firms have made submissions, but I would have thought on the issue of trusts there would have been more submissions from the legal profession. I think this is a God-given opportunity now for a broad range of submitters\u2014not just law firms but companies and other groups\u2014to make submissions on the Privacy Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAs the Minister said, it\u2019s a very good piece of work, but the submissions process will, hopefully, improve it, and so the sooner it gets away to the select committee, the better. We support this legislation and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00220e74d62f73914b679bc3d801f38740c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e74d62f73914b679bc3d801f38740c0\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s with huge relief that I stand tonight to talk to this reform of the Privacy Act 1993, as recommended by the Law Commission\u2019s 2011 review of this Act. It\u2019s with huge relief that I stand and congratulate the current Minister of Justice, the Hon Andrew Little, who has finally done what no justice Minister under the previous National Government could do or would do, introducing much-needed privacy reforms. Nine years they were in power\u2014nine years. This review of the Privacy Act was completed by the Law Commission in 2011\u2014three justice Ministers, no privacy reforms under the whole of their nine years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIt is a hallmark of this Government that it\u2019s introduced this legislation as a priority. As the Minister mentioned, it\u2019s not perfect; it still needs more work. Whether that work can be completely done in the select committee or whether it will need another iteration down the track, at least it\u2019s in the Parliament, it will go to select committee, and it will get passed. It is a huge relief. It is much needed for our country. Privacy reforms are utterly, utterly fundamental to a healthy, functioning democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI actually want to put the record straight on the time line around this piece of legislation: 25 years since its inception in 1993; 12 years actually, in 2006, since the Law Commission was asked by the previous Labour Government to undertake a review of the legislation; seven years since that report was released by the Law Commission; six years since that report was tabled in Parliament by the then Minister of Justice, Simon Power; four years since the then next Minister of Justice, Judith Collins, finally issued a press release, saying that there would be some reform\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1dfd03f99a24ebd8f386ee6f88a3a3d\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Press releases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289e09beaae01434997c37dd5ba9f30d0\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014a press release, indeed, in 2014 just before the 2014 election\u2014of the Privacy Act; and then silence, a deadly silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhat happened in the interim? Well, what happened in the interim was that there were privacy breaches. There was a raft of privacy breaches, whether it was the Ministry of Social Development, ACC, district health boards\u2014numerous other Government departments, including the Ministry of Justice, where there were privacy breaches, where public confidence in the Government\u2019s ability to manage public data had sunk to an all-time low\u2014no privacy reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhat else happened during that time? There was reform to our security legislation: the Search and Surveillance Act, the Government Communications Security Bureau Act, and the TICSA Act, which is the Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Act. All of those things had a place, and there was a lot of public debate, but alongside that needed to go privacy law reform so that citizens would feel as if their rights were being protected, that their data and their ability to have their own personal information have a value put on it by the then Government\u2014but no; silence. That\u2019s what happened. That is the history of this piece of legislation, and it is a shameful history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThankfully, this Government is putting it right. We are putting into the select committee a piece of legislation that has a key purpose, to promote and protect people\u2019s privacy and to give the Privacy Commissioner a stronger role. Obviously, it\u2019s going to do a lot of other things as well, but these things are critical, and they\u2019re much overdue. While this legislation may not go far enough, it will have the opportunity to be improved at select committee and there can be more work done on the modernisation, taking things forward in 2018\u2014forward\u2014which is work that this Government is undertaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ETechnology has revolutionised the way that we disclose, share, store, and release information. That revolution is only going to increase, and by their very nature, revolutions cause momentous disruption. The digital revolution that has occurred\u2014and if you look back over, particularly, those last seven years, much has changed, but the protection of people\u2019s privacy has not been modernised, has not had a value put on it, and that is why this is so important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EHaving the individual and the importance of their personal data as the key purpose of this new Act is a very powerful statement for our citizens. It sends a clear message that this Government sees people as central to the business of Government, and keeping them safe is the point of the work that we\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe Privacy Act has historically sought to protect people\u2019s privacy while allowing information use by legitimate users such as Government and businesses. But having people\u2019s trust is vital for a democracy, and a key part of that trust is people knowing that the information that they provide to Government is being kept safe and being used for legitimate purposes and that there is a framework around that to deal with breaches, for there to be mandatory disclosure of breaches, and for there to be enforcement by our Privacy Commissioner when those rules are not being upheld. That, finally, is what this reform of this legislation is going to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EPeople also have rights over their data. They should be informed when, how, and by whom their data is being collected and used, and that includes telling people when artificial intelligence or algorithms are making decisions on their data. This is a key piece of work that needs to be looked at closely in select committee. If there is a need for more reforms around this, this should occur as soon as possible. This Government is looking into doing this work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EEnsuring that we\u2019ve got a robust digital rights framework is one of my priorities as the Minister for Government Digital Services and the Associate Minister of State Services (Open Government). That is a piece of work that is being done in parallel with this legislation, along with six other countries, the Digital 7 countries, around looking at a digital rights framework, which will take this privacy reform even further, to modernise it and to give the public of New Zealand comfort that we consider that their human rights should be considered in a digital context and should be valued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis is a world-leading piece of work that is being undertaken. It will provide further reforms around our privacy regime, and it\u2019s something that we can be proud of. This is a much-needed, long-overdue piece of legislation. It\u2019s something that I\u2019m very proud to be standing and talking to finally, after having stood on the other side for nine years calling for it, along with many others in civil society and along with the Privacy Commissioners that have been active in the last 10 years. It goes back to a previous Labour Government that instituted a review of the primary piece of legislation in 2006. It\u2019s taken 12 years to get to this point\u201412 years. Why is it that that previous Government was silent on privacy law reform? Why is it that they couldn\u2019t get it to the House? I thank them tonight for their support to select committee. I hope that the Justice Committee will treat this piece of legislation with the rigour that it deserves and that it does receive full support across the House. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u00223b66ccd5578d4c29a815506bf9c9dfb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b66ccd5578d4c29a815506bf9c9dfb9\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I rise with pleasure to speak to this first reading of the Privacy Bill. This Privacy Bill, of course, repeals and replaces a now outdated piece of legislation, the Privacy Act 1993. It did form a very large piece of work which was undertaken by the former justice Minister, Amy Adams. Privacy reform was something that she took very seriously, and this is a very significant piece of work that has taken a long time to get to this place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThat is why, even by the Government\u2019s standards, it is a little curious to hear their chorus of amazement that it\u2019s taken this long. Things take time, as they\u2019re just starting to find out, because, of course, they\u2019ve done no work in nine years, not thinking they\u2019d ever be in Government. They haven\u2019t got very much\u2014although, of course, there was that little four-line bill earlier that they churned out. But they\u2019re not capable of putting the level of work and intellectual rigour into a piece of legislation like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo, naturally, National will be supporting the bill because we did all the work on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022393ddc6a52db44b196e4707e6fbecbf6\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Has this person actually read it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022353c8d631fd0445abb380f8a22fac911\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s that Chihuahua again. There might be a little bit of water in the pipes; shall we call in the maintenance people? There\u2019s an unfortunate yapping sound, which we will just ignore\u2014nothing very private about that member\u2019s mental health issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo we support the Privacy Bill because this is a piece of legislation that after 25 years\u2014and, as other speakers have noted, the technological advances have been extraordinary. We needed to get up to date with what was happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI recall a piece of work, I suppose it was: Hosking v Runting. That was where the tort of privacy was first developed in the way that we\u2019ve come to understand it now. In those days, in the 1990s, breaches of privacy and issues around privacy were more to do with individuals, because that was the nature of the way we used to operate as a country. These days, of course, with the huge technological advances, which most of us enjoy and benefit from on a daily basis, there is now a large amount of personal data that can be stored and transmitted digitally. We need look no further than today, seeing Zuckerberg of Facebook come before committees and explain about Cambridge Analytica.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EOur New Zealand Privacy Commissioner, John Edwards, has already taken Facebook to task for breaching our Privacy Act, and I\u2019m really pleased to see enshrined in this legislation that the Privacy Commissioner will have more additional powers than they have currently. So binding decisions, for example, on access requests will be there. At the moment, the process is clunky: the Privacy Commissioner has to refer complaints to the tribunal; it takes a long time. We need to be nimble; we need to move quickly. I mean, if an agency refuses an individual\u2019s request to access their personal information, then, again, the Privacy Commissioner will be able to direct the agency to make that information available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think strengthening the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s information-gathering powers is extremely important and, I think, will serve democracy very well. So those additional powers are a very good thing. I think, too, that when we look at the range of activities that this particular piece of legislation, which was widely consulted on\u2014something like 80 submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EOf course, there are disappointments. It is disappointing and bewildering, actually, to see why the Government has removed some of the very good work that Amy Adams and the team put into it, in the last Government, around reforms to how the approved information sharing agreement operates. The agreement has needed modernising for some time. It ought to be in this bill because enforcement information\u2014who owns it, what informs it, and how accessible it is are all issues that we need to grapple with. Perhaps this is part of their cunning ploy to get more legislation of a small and tailored nature to pad out their extremely thin legislative programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThis bill has a number of disappointments that are not included that have come out of the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s February last year report on the Privacy Act, including increasing the fines to up to $1 million, the issues around the data portability, compliance monitoring, and controls on the re-identification of data, which is all part of, I suppose, trying to find out exactly where it goes, because people are very clever indeed about hiding their traces. Adjustments to existing criminal offences\u2014this also has been left out\u2014and reforming the public register on privacy principles. So, unfortunately, this Government has not quite gone all the way. That\u2019s what they do, I guess\u2014we\u2019ll probably need to get used to that\u2014but at least they\u2019ve made some effort, and that builds on the great work by Amy Adams in the last Government. It is with pleasure that I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u00228e37480e12824bf8af5625a5e9893e4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e37480e12824bf8af5625a5e9893e4b\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Deputy Speaker, it\u2019s a pleasure to rise on behalf of New Zealand First in support of this Privacy Bill. It\u2019s always a pleasure to rise after the Hon Maggie Barry, because anyone who does always sounds very, very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3fa757616f240ad99239b73988f5b2b\u0022\u003EHon Maggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Try harder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7f95c42bb8d4f4b8212b63bac8b98d6\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s the reaction I was after\u2014there\u2019s the reaction I was after. Apparently, as Maggie Barry said, Amy Adams has been working very, very hard on this bill for the last six years and couldn\u2019t get it through to this House. You know, it\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b78659ffb681453094f682fae4daef2c\u0022\u003EHon Maggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s because we were busy with other stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022248ce9c2bfe64cb7a78f0720904f2eb0\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I was going to say it surprised me, but it doesn\u2019t surprise me that, after six months, all of a sudden the National Party decides to figure everything out. They\u2019ve got all the answers to crime, because now crime\u2019s an issue; they\u2019ve got all the answers to youth crime, because now youth crime\u2019s an issue\u2014it wasn\u2019t for the last nine years. They\u2019ve got a solution to all the prison number problems, too, because that wasn\u2019t a problem over the last nine years, and now they\u2019ve got a solution to the Privacy Act. Now they\u2019ve got a solution to the Privacy Act that they said they\u2019d been working very hard on for the last six years. Well, perhaps the Hon Amy Adams was working hard, or perhaps she was hardly working\u2014I don\u2019t know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225196397126da4219ba5db4ff2867467c\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Urgh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1ad4c434eb141909064c6f59f241f71\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: Did you like that one, Mr Bishop?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019d like to thank the current Minister, Andrew Little, for bringing this piece of legislation through to the House finally. His speech was quite detailed in its outline of the process and the intent of what this bill is trying to achieve, and the common-sense reasons why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to reiterate a few key points on why New Zealand First will be supporting this bill. As has already been stated, the Privacy Bill repeals and replaces the Privacy Act of 1993, which was 25 years ago, and it brings into play some of the recommendations by the Law Commission in 2011 when it reviewed the Act. As has been mentioned, 25 years is a very, very long time for this Act not to have been overhauled in any significant way, and just the developments in the technology that everybody uses, whether they be individuals or organisations, have been absolutely comprehensive and phenomenal in their exponential move. Twenty-five years ago\u2014I don\u2019t think that anyone had a cellphone in 1993. We certainly didn\u2019t use the internet on the regular basis that we do now, we didn\u2019t have any smart phones, and the organisations worked in a completely different way in regard to dealing with people\u2019s information, whether they\u2019re banks or whether they be other organisations and institutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe use of that data, too, is the most important thing, I think. If we don\u2019t have the laws and the regulations that can govern how, what for, and why people can share or use other people\u2019s information\u2014individual private citizens\u2019 information\u2014then those private citizens would be less likely to freely give up that information and trust organisations with their information, and personal information at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThis bill sets out to modernise the privacy legislation within New Zealand, and, I think, importantly, too, it sets out to align New Zealand\u2019s privacy legislation with other legislation overseas. It\u2019s good that we\u2019re getting there now\u2014it\u2019s a little bit of a catch-up\u2014but it\u2019s better late than never. It details and regulates the collection, use, and disclosure of information about individuals, and gives the Privacy Commissioner adequate tools to mitigate the privacy risks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EOne of the two main things that needs to be addressed in any piece of legislation is detailing what is the \u201Cwhat\u201D of the bill\u2014so what is it trying to achieve?\u2014and the \u201Cwhy\u201D. There are a number of changes, but the key changes in the legislation\u2014there are six of them. The first is that it will deal with mandatory reporting of privacy breaches. Obviously, privacy breaches that are unauthorised or accidental and that pose a risk of harm to people must be notified to the Privacy Commissioner and to the affected individuals. It seems like a basic thing, but it has been identified by the Privacy Commissioner and needs to be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe second is compliance notices. The commissioner, importantly, with a great deal of common sense, will be able to issue compliance notices that require an agency to do something or not do something in regard to the privacy law, and is able to enforce compliance notices and hear appeals as well. The third is strengthening cross-border data flow protections\u2014that is one of the important things in the globalisation of technology, communication, and data sharing\u2014and the bill also clarifies the application of our law when a New Zealand agency operates overseas in a different jurisdiction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe fourth: it introduces new criminal offences. It will be an offence to mislead an agency in a way that affects someone else\u2019s information, and to knowingly destroy documents containing personal information where a request has been made for it. The next is the commissioner making binding decisions on access requests. This reform will enable the commissioner to make decisions on complaints relating to access to information, rather than the Human Rights Review Tribunal. And the last key change will be strengthening the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s information-gathering power. The commissioner\u2019s existing investigation power\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdd44b873a5e4efbacc03b9ef9d04783\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: Very good reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225078d1cf30c84afa84edb8b42438f4b4\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is strengthened by allowing\u2014well, if that member wants to know why I\u2019m reading, quite obviously the member hasn\u2019t been listening. There are six key changes that this legislation is incurring, and I\u2019ll be very impressed if that member stands up next and can say it off the top of her head. It\u2019s very important that this House and the public can understand why New Zealand First is supporting this bill, and these are six of the key changes. I was on the last one\u2014member interrupted me, and I\u2019ll carry on. The commissioner\u2019s existing investigation power is strengthened by allowing him or her to shorten the time frame within which an agency must comply and by increasing the penalty for non-compliance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s the \u201Cwhat\u201D\u2014that\u2019s the intent of what this bill is trying to achieve and what the changes are. The second most important is the \u201Cwhy\u201D and the justification. Like I mentioned before, it\u2019s very important in today\u2019s technological age that private individuals and private citizens have a lot of trust in all of the organisations that they work with. All those organisations are very key to the running of the modern world today. Whether they be banking or other institutions, online is being used more and more, and that data needs to be protected and there need to be updated laws to be able to back that up. The cost of not dealing with the legislation, both on an individual and on an organisational level, will obviously be that loss of trust, the loss of dignity, and doubts when any organisation is dealing with sensitive information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ESo although it\u2019s a very simple bill and it\u2019s not the most exciting, Christopher Finlayson did mention that it was a very, very important bill, and I do agree with him on that. I think that the most important stage in this whole process, as has been mentioned by, I think, all of the speakers so far, is the select committee stage. I do encourage all who are interested in keeping their private information very private to come through and to submit on that, and especially the larger organisations as well, so we can have a very thorough select committee stage and we can iron out any of the kinks that there are and make sure that it is very workable moving forward into the future. New Zealand First will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022fed290a7d9af47c0a305874c18bf6bfc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fed290a7d9af47c0a305874c18bf6bfc\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Assistant Speaker. I do just want to pick up on the gratuitous insults that Mr Ball just made in regards to the Hon Amy Adams, who was the former Minister of Justice. \u201CHardly working or working hard?\u201D is what he put to the House as a question. Well, the rich irony of a member of a Government party that has spent the last six months setting up working-groups to create legislation and things for them to do\u2014the deep irony of hearing something from Mr Ball about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe reality is Amy Adams did an outstanding job as Minister of Justice. In fact, this Privacy Bill that we\u2019re debating, like many of the bills that we\u2019ve spent the spent the last six months debating, originated from its time in the last Government\u2019s legislative process. You can\u2019t get around to everything; it was a very busy and active Government, as my colleague Gerry Brownlee knows. Amy Adams did an outstanding job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo this bill, I think, is going to receive the unanimous support of the House, and it\u2019s going to go to the Justice Committee. There\u2019s a bit of a saying being developed in the Parliament: if you want something done, give it to the Justice Committee. In fact, the only thing this new Government seems to be able to do is to give it to the Justice Committee. We\u2019ve got the Legislation Bill; we\u2019ve got the Arbitration Amendment Bill, which I know my colleague Andrew Bayly\u2019s very interested in; we\u2019ve got the Trusts Bill\u2014we\u2019re reforming the law of trusts, and I see a beaming Raymond Huo over the other side of the House; he\u2019s looking forward to shepherding that one through. We\u2019ve got domestic violence law reform; we\u2019ve got court consent to minors getting married; we\u2019ve got the Crimes Amendment Bill; we\u2019re going to get rid of blasphemous libel; we\u2019ve got the End of Life Choice Bill\u201430,000 submissions on that\u2014and, of course, we\u2019ve got the inquiry into the general election. So we\u2019re a pretty busy committee\u2014and Madam Assistant Speaker is giving me the flick to move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac37b9d663ce432695f4fbd450a899b8\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Is any of that Government work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db5150fed27344e6b81d68da35926cde\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Some of that is Government work. Gerry Brownlee asks, \u201CIs that Government work?\u201D Some of it is Government work; most of it\u2019s the previous Government\u2019s work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EPrivacy is one of those things where anyone who\u2019s studied law\u2014particularly in the last 15 years\u2014has sort of come to have a love-hate relationship with it, because it\u2019s sort of like the new black. It\u2019s the thing that every law student and every developing lawyer comes to study, particularly Hosking v Runting. I think Maggie Barry, my colleague, made mention of Mr Hosking. I know members opposite in this House love Mr Hosking. But, of course, Mike Hosking has made an interesting contribution to New Zealand in a number of respects, mainly in the broadcasting realm\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265e70b50ad0a43aca882e8e40921957e\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: And accurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c22aefec1f554027a2905f28d98b1e36\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and \u201Caccurate\u201D, says Gerry Brownlee\u2014and mainly in the news media realm. He\u2019s most recently made a contribution to the auto-repair industry, as I understand it, so that\u2019s good for the Mercedes-Benz dealerships in Auckland. But, particularly in the legal sense, Mike Hosking has made an outstanding contribution in developing the tort of privacy and developing the rules around the unreasonable interference of people\u2019s \u201Cprivate facts\u201D\u2014as they\u2019re known in the legal parlance\u2014and the interference with them and the publication in an offensive or unreasonable way. Mike Hosking sued a photographer called Simon Runting after Runting had taken photographs of his children, I believe\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022618cfb2462de4db5a9c61bf4fffe1520\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right, the twins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227edbf251607a4b73bd8b5b5c0ac1db4f\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that\u2019s right; \u201Ctwins\u201D, says Shane Reti\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022689378ddcea740c9bd0a4b37dd77451c\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Newmarket in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292eb4687c6764477ab5a307c3a253d1b\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014on a public street in Newmarket, I think\u2014Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s rohe, in Newmarket. The question before the court was: is it a breach of privacy to take a photograph of someone\u2019s children in a public place? The court decided that there was a tort but that it was not a breach of privacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I\u2019m going to be interested to look at in the select committee is how this Act interfaces with that tort and how the Act covers some of the things that have been developed through the tort\u2014so things in public and private facts. We have a very technical piece of legislation that\u2019s going to deal with a lot of the technological changes that have come about in the last 25 years, and that is very important because the Act was passed in 1993. I think that Darroch Ball, in one of the more worthy contributions to the debate, said, \u201CWell, no one had cellphones back in 1993.\u201D I didn\u2019t get my first cellphone until 2001.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d67f3964e14641fa903bde90c2470bf2\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Winston had one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1933bd240734980acffaba3f4f4cb22\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CWinston had one\u201D, says Mr Brownlee. He probably had one of those big bricks. But very few members had cellphones. So things have changed now with Facebook and Uber and the tech economy and the rise of the gig economy and things like that, so it\u2019s very worthwhile. So that\u2019s why the review has been very thorough-going. The Law Commission\u2019s been involved\u2014it\u2019s highly appropriate on things like this, and we\u2019re going to examine the bill at the committee and make the changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got to say, we\u2019re doing a lot of bills on the Justice Committee at the moment that have been through that Law Commission process, but it is still very helpful to have that oversight of the Justice Committee. It\u2019s still very, very helpful because, despite the fact that, I think, 80 organisations have been consulted on, in the development of this, there are always going to be mistakes in the drafting. We\u2019re going to pick them up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ELook, this is fundamentally a good bill. It\u2019s a sound proposition that we update our privacy laws for the 21st century. We\u2019ll look forward to examining it in the very, very hard-working Justice Committee in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022b01dafdb7da049b3ae1d0c4f8270b426\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b01dafdb7da049b3ae1d0c4f8270b426\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise in support of this bill. In an age of mass data collection; in an age of Facebook leaks that affect the outcomes of elections, Facebook leaks that affect thousands of New Zealanders right here, and mass spying by our own Government agencies under the previous Government, as we\u2019ve found out; in an age where even anonymous data can be re-identified because there is just so much of our information\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226774b11e9d5b46449c9c5acd1233a6e6\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That\u2019s a completely unacceptable statement for anyone to have made in this House, and I think it should be withdrawn and apologised for. The previous Government was not mass spying on New Zealanders. That is not something that\u2019s been found out, because it never existed. It never happened. It\u2019s a fiction put about by the Green Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b57988dc67e425d8025c0192a2d5568\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your intervention. It is a debating point, and I will allow the member to continue with her contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022198b427f13c64024842c0286833511c0\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: With all due respect, it cannot be a debating point when someone says something that is so outrageously offensive and dishonest as that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022095576253c2849b9b085a55a33e8b4ce\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: You are now calling the member\u2019s veracity into question. I had ruled that it was a debating point, and I had called the member to continue with her contribution. Now, Mr Brownlee, if you have an issue with that, you can take it up in another way, but the member will continue. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8fe23abc18c405f8e926325236fc583\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. So in an age where there\u2019s so much of our data out there on the internet that it\u2019s impossible to even keep it anonymous, in an age where our phones contain some of our most intimate data\u2014in this digital age, privacy may be one of our most precious rights. It affects, in fact, our ability to realise most of our other rights, which is why I think most New Zealanders would be shocked to find that New Zealand doesn\u2019t, in fact, enshrine the right to privacy in law. Neither our New Zealand Bill of Rights Act or our Human Rights Act contain the right to privacy. So I think most of us, in light of that, would also be shocked to find that the Privacy Act, in the ad hoc but, so far, only way we have to protect our privacy rights, hasn\u2019t been updated since 1993\u2014before the internet existed, at least in the way that we now know it to exist, and before Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick here was even born, as she\u2019s pointed out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThis makes safeguarding our privacy rights all the more important and the outdated nature of this privacy framework all the more dangerous. We are vulnerable to corporate breaches and to governmental breaches, whether deliberate or accidental. Updating this law has been so overdue, and I\u2019m so pleased that this Government has put it on the agenda so urgently. Even in the last two weeks since this bill was introduced, privacy breaches have overtaken news. There\u2019s been 63,000 New Zealanders affected by the Facebook breach\u2014a breach that that corporation believes falls outside our Privacy Act. We\u2019ve had a Government agency\u2014in this case, Immigration New Zealand\u2014using a risk assessment tool that may have been discriminatory and may have been misusing data.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EPrivacy rights are a passion of mine. I came into this House as a human rights lawyer with this on my agenda, so I was pleased that I was able to raise this issue with the Minister of Justice, the Hon Andrew Little, who has now brought this bill, and I am confident that this bill goes some way to fill the existing holes in our law when it comes to protecting our privacy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EIt empowers the Privacy Commissioner to actually deal with privacy complaints\u2014something that the Human Rights Review Tribunal was so overburdened with that it now faces two-year delays in dealing with any human rights complaints. I\u2019ve spoken to the commission; they\u2019re delighted that the watchdog mandate of the Privacy Commissioner is extended in this way, and privacy complaints can now be much more urgently dealt with and expediently settled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThe bill introduces additional ways to enforce information privacy principles\u2014for example, the Privacy Commissioner will now be able to make binding decisions on complaints about access to information, where that\u2019s needed. It can require agencies that hold our private information to actually issue notices letting the Office of the Privacy Commissioner know when a breach has occurred before harm ensues. Up until now, people affected would have to wait until there was harm before they even found out that there had been a privacy breach. The bill requires this kind of notice, putting an onus on agencies holding our private information\u2014essentially, emphasising the right to privacy in a binding way. It also, finally, strengthens cross-border data flow protection. It clarifies the application of our law when New Zealand agencies use offshore services to hold our data. It\u2019s astounding to me that that wasn\u2019t something that was clear in our law until now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThese are all great first steps. I\u2019ll be working hard to introduce further steps. One of those will be protection against discrimination in risk assessment algorithms. This is something that most Western nations actually have; it\u2019s not radical at all. The EU protects against the use of discriminatory identifiers like race, age, gender, disability, and sexual orientation in algorithms that assess risk\u2014in algorithms that are then used to decide who gets resourced, who gets opportunities in law. This is something that we do need to work on, and I do hope that either the select committee process or another piece of legislative work that we can initiate in this Government will actually address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EIn the human rights sector, we\u2019ve known for quite some time that algorithms are in use by Government agencies in New Zealand that determine whether someone\u2014often a child\u2014is at risk of underachieving in a certain area and so doesn\u2019t deserve resource. The United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child, in our last reporting cycle, actually asked that New Zealand introduce legislation to protect against this. It found that it was a breach of our children\u2019s rights. It is a breach of our children\u2019s rights if we\u2019re going to misuse their data to determine that they\u2019re more likely to drop out of school and to double down on whatever discrimination might have led that demographic to underachieve in school, or if we determine that they\u2019re more likely to be at risk of abuse or neglect and they should be removed based on these discriminatory identifiers. So doubling down on discrimination is one of the ways that our data is being used, or misused, and I want all data to be finally secured against that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EMass data collection now does determine what information we can see on our Facebook feeds, on the internet, whenever we\u2019re online. Who might be a criminal or a terrorist\u2014it determines who might get health insurance and who might get a job. These questions used to be answered by human beings, and now they\u2019re being answered, increasingly, by automated decision-making systems. We need protections against our data to acknowledge this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThe Green Party would like to see safeguards in place that will protect our human rights and our human dignity in the face of this kind of misuse. The right to free elections, workers\u2019 rights, and the rights to healthcare, freedom of expression, privacy, and even the rule of law itself are at stake, and that isn\u2019t a radical ask, because internationally these rights are protected, including the legal prohibition against discriminatory algorithms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m concerned that we do this work and that we do it soon\u2014that we do it before the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement kicks in, where we did give away our ability to regulate any future unknown technologies. I\u2019ll be working closely with the Minister of Justice and our own Green Party Minister of Statistics to bring New Zealand\u2019s privacy laws into the 21st century and to futureproof them. But, for now, the protections contained in this bill are necessary, they are urgent, and I\u2019m pleased to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022890ec222544943e39d6a69e0043e32cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022890ec222544943e39d6a69e0043e32cd\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak to this bill. I have a particular interest in data and cyber security, and I certainly will be supporting this bill. I would like to start by noting, first of all, a few key moments and a few key people in the life of privacy legislation in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI want to start with the late Sir Bruce Slane\u2014a man I called a friend and the first Privacy Commissioner. In the third and final reading of the Privacy Act 1993 on 5 May, Minister of Justice Doug Graham said this about Sir Bruce: \u201CI also [want] to thank, and to place on record the appreciation of, the Privacy Commissioner, Bruce Slane\u2014not only for myself but also, I am sure, on behalf of the members of the select committee. He was given the task of suddenly becoming an expert on privacy law, and of going around the business community to settle down any problems, \u2026 he did that with consummate skill. He reported to the select committee as I asked him to do. His advice was sound, it was reasonable, and it was carefully planned, and that reflects great credit on him.\u201D I also want to acknowledge the late Elisabeth Harding\u2014a lady I called a friend and legal counsel to Sir Bruce when the Privacy Act was enacted. I say to both of them\u2014now they are both deceased\u2014haere ki te k\u0101inga t\u016Bturu o t\u014D t\u0101tou Matua i te Rangi. Moe mai, moe mai, moe mai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E[Farewell to the home of our Heavenly Father. Rest in peace, rest in peace, rest in peace.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EPrivacy issues started taking shape in the late 1960s and 1970s as large computer databases started to be formed. This culminated in the 1976 Wanganui Computer Centre Act. Now, the Wanganui computer is detailed as \u201CNew Zealand\u2019s first centralised electronic database \u2026 It was also the first time a New Zealand computer had its own Act of Parliament. It was set up by the State Services Commission and the information it amassed was initially available to and shared by the police, \u2026 Land Transport \u2026 and the Department of Justice. The mighty Sperry mainframe needed its own multi-storey building to accommodate it.\u201D It goes on: \u201CThe computer was [actually] little more than a glorified mail handler, steaming open virtual envelopes in order to peruse their contents. Police and others wanting to access others on the database had to do so through terminals located in their stations and offices.\u201D That was the 1960s and 1970s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIn the 1980s, it was the OECD. Their privacy legislation was the most applicable to us. We can read here from a presentation made to Australia from the New Zealand Privacy Commissioner at the time: \u201CAt the time that we enacted our Privacy Act, the OECD guidelines were the only applicable international instrument for New Zealand. Unlike the majority of OECD members, the European instruments just didn\u2019t apply. Only much later did APEC develop its privacy framework.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIn the 1990s, further regulatory reforms and globalisation led to some of the early legislation. The 1991 information legislation was introduced by a National Government and two years later it became the 1993 Privacy Act. Why did it take so long? We can see here, if we read through some of the notes: \u201COn 5 August 1991, the National Government introduced the Privacy of Information Bill as a consequence of its first budget. There was resistance to applying the proposed [legislation] to the private sector,\u201D\u2014we heard this; this was one of the struggles for Sir Bruce to get the Privacy Act through\u2014\u201Cand the Select Committee to which the bill as amended was referred did not report the Bill back until [two years later].\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EClearly, 25 years later, which brings us to today, the Act is needing reform. I acknowledge the body of work that the Law Commission did over 2010 and 2013\u2014I think it\u2019s actually three large volumes, as I recall looking at it, a very detailed work on reviewing the Privacy Act from the Law Commission. Why then does the Act need modernisation? Well, the advent of social media, social services, and the reach of international jurisdictions into the lives of New Zealanders. In my view, it\u2019s very important that the privacy laws in this area be strengthened, as this bill will do. The international data community, while touting the principles of sovereignty, conveniently cower behind their own jurisdictions when it suits, particularly as it applies to New Zealand data. We\u2019ve already heard mentioned Uber New Zealand data breaches, Facebook\u2014and ticketing site Viagogo hiding behind their Switzerland presence, and others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s also important to reflect on trade. If we believe that here in New Zealand we are good stewards of overseas data, we expect others to do the same with our data. To that end, New Zealand is required to be certified as good data stewards by many of our large trading partners before we can do business with them. We expect exactly the same care and respect. The EU is a good example. We export $8.2 billion to the EU each year. For many services, New Zealand needs to be certified by the EU as having adequate data protection mechanisms, and, in fact, in December 2012, New Zealand received data protection certification with the EU.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI think at another point in time I want to talk about data breaches, because there is a lot of stuff happening, particularly in the EU and Britain and Australia, particularly in 2018. But I think at this point, I will leave what I have to say until another time. I commend this bill to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002255e886cc50074586bf6b035f54851865\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255e886cc50074586bf6b035f54851865\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to join others in the introduction of this Privacy Bill. I think I\u2019m actually the only member who was in the House at the time when the Privacy Act was passed in 1993, in a very different technological age, but I would say with some pride from the National benches that the hard yards around improving New Zealand\u2019s law to protect Kiwis\u2019 privacy have been taken by our party. I particularly want to acknowledge the hard work that Amy Adams, the former Minister of Justice, put in over two years to the provisions that are in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe most important issue that Parliament needs to address in this legislation is the huge revolution in technologies over the last 25 years that pose far greater challenges to the way in which we deal with people\u2019s personal information. But I also want to stress, particularly in the context of the Green Party\u2019s contribution to this law, that we equally need to be balanced and ensure that our privacy law is not turning into a bureaucratic nightmare for everyday New Zealanders out there that are doing good stuff in our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think there will be a constituency MP in this Parliament who\u2019s not dealt with some sort of crisis in the area of mental health, where the Privacy Act has got in the way of common-sense sharing of information that will actually better protect New Zealanders from harm in areas as complex as mental health and crime. So the real challenge that we have to get right as a Parliament with this legislation is laws that properly protect the privacy of information that is sensitive but which do not go so far that they make the basic administration of core public services more difficult for New Zealanders to navigate their way through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI, for instance, believe that the sharing of information between Government agencies is critical to get right. There wouldn\u2019t be an MP in this Parliament who would not want to tear strips off those Government services that allowed a child molester and murderer like Phillip Smith to get on a plane and fly to Brazil because our information-sharing services did not allow corrections to be able to pass the information on to an agency like customs and our airport to ensure that he was blocked and not allowed out of our country. So I commend the work that Amy Adams has done in bringing this very complex bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s absolutely crucial that our privacy laws do take into account the massive amounts of information that are available on information technology. But I\u2019d also urge the select committee, in putting this bill through the parliamentary system, to give it a great deal of scrutiny to make sure it is practical and workable in the real world so that those people that work in those services, whether they work in crime, whether they work in health services, or whether they work in our education services\u2014to ensure that they do not drive a culture in the public sector of siloisation of public services that actually holds us back on key issues like helping children that are at risk and dealing with those sorts of social issues. It is a good bill\u2014a bill that National will support, but a bill in which we must be identified on the detail to get it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022c150ad1022704c79ade9c60400655cf8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c150ad1022704c79ade9c60400655cf8\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It is indeed a pleasure to rise and take a call on the Privacy Bill. It is a straightforward bill, but, as has been said before by previous speakers, it\u2019s an important one. It fulfils some very important functions. What it does, basically, is it replaces the Privacy Act, which is 25 years old. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThings have changed in the interim over those 25 years. We are living in a digital age. The way that businesses and Governments operate has changed. It has actually transformed dramatically over that time period. There are new technologies that we see every day. There are new benefits, but there are also some threats and some challenges that need to be dealt with, and that\u2019s what this bill does. It basically regulates the collection, the use, and the disclosure of individual information. It modernises our legislation, and it does so in a way that brings it into line with international recommendations\u2014for example, by the OECD\u2014as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo it tweaks a few things. It makes some changes. It retains some parts of the current Act\u2014for example, the complaints system\u2014but it modifies it. So, for example, under this particular bill, if someone\u2019s privacy is breached, they can complain to the Privacy Commissioner. The change that this bill will bring about is that the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s role, I guess, is strengthened. It gives the role a bit more teeth because the commissioner, who then attempts to resolve the dispute, can actually come to a decision\u2014make a decision. If the person is not happy with the decision that\u2019s made, it can be appealed to the Human Rights Review Tribunal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe crux of this bill is that it promotes people\u2019s confidence in their personal information being used in a way that is secure and it ensures that it\u2019s treated properly. It will allow for privacy breaches to be addressed earlier, for them to be addressed quicker, and it gives, as I mentioned previously, the Privacy Commissioner a stronger role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI did want to go into a little bit about the specific changes that this bill suggests, but I thought I\u2019d also jump to what constitutes a privacy breach. We\u2019ve heard a little bit about the types of privacy breaches, so individuals\u2019 information being used or, basically, unauthorised or accidental access to or disclosure or destruction of someone\u2019s personal information. Quite recently on the Justice Committee, we discussed the expungement bill that came before this House and that was passed by this House just a couple of weeks ago, if I\u2019m not mistaken. We had quite an in-depth discussion at the select committee level to make sure that people who might have access to criminal records of homosexual men who have historical convictions could not then use that information in a way that would be detrimental to those people, because we know that breaches of privacy can cause a lot of harm to people and can actually affect their quality of life significantly. So it\u2019s those sorts of breaches that this bill, once it is passed, will address as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EIt also includes ransomware attacks. There is quite a lot of evidence. I was having a look at the detrimental effects, or how much we\u2019ve suffered from ransomware attacks across the world, and it\u2019s significant. It\u2019s actually cybercrime. So it\u2019s about people who have been, basically, extorting money from companies. It\u2019s become quite a significant issue of electronic security around the world. It\u2019s become a lucrative business, where people then use personal information to commit identity fraud\u2014highly sensitive research that is compromised. A recent survey in\u2014I think it was\u2014Australia found that about 20 percent of attacks were motivated by espionage. Then there are those who just do it for fun rather than financial gain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo all sorts of security breaches have come with a complete change in circumstances over the last 25 years, and this bill will go a long way to modernise legislation to address those privacy breaches, whether it compromises the information of individuals or companies. As I said earlier as well, it actually brings our legislation into line with international legislation. So I commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u00225549afc2edb2427cb5b9b14973babc64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225549afc2edb2427cb5b9b14973babc64\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In the era of big data, this bill has been brought in and introduced in a timely manner\u2014perhaps more so is the fact that we can reflect on the recent news reports concerning the UK investigations in relation to the alleged breaches by the firm Cambridge Analytica, potentially affecting millions of Facebook users. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EBefore we go to the details of this bill, I recall the annual review session we had with the New Zealand Police recently, with the Justice Committee. I certainly learnt from the Police that cybercrime investigations will continue to increase and that, at the moment, cybercrime investigations are a specialised area but in the foreseeable future cybercrime investigations will become a generalised area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201804108d8cbaa1c3e34c89a088c6952533909a000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"