"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b696c38fdfc643b685fc9d1242d195dd\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 8 MAY 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ecf3c7134d86452f8e5922c766df05f8\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 8 MAY 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d99b059afa343f09338c94521e83d39\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224bf7ec718f9f455ca3610b868e752f76\u0022\u003EHon Katherine O\u2019Regan QSO\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227fd557a38cc74881833479092254ccd9\u0022\u003ETony Steel\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225fb21e5840d042e8ac58910d54a9bc83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fb21e5840d042e8ac58910d54a9bc83\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I regret to inform the House of the death on 2 May 2018 of the Hon Katherine O\u2019Regan QSO, who represented the electorate of Waip\u0101 between 1984 and 1996 and was a list member for the National Party from 1996 to 1999. During her membership of the House, she was Minister of Consumer Affairs and Associate Minister of Women\u2019s Affairs, Health, and Social Welfare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI further regret to inform the House of the death on 4 May 2018 of Tony Steel, who represented the electorate of Hamilton East from 1990 to 1993 and from 1996 to 2002. He was chairperson of the Education and Science Committee from 1996 to 1999.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI desire on behalf this House to express our sense of the loss we have sustained and our sympathy with the relatives of the late former members. I now ask members to stand with me and observe a period of silence as a mark of respect for their memory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMembers stood as a mark of respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223adc9128ff4e472da696b883b0cdf873\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022320b85efd4734b8d8baa817c4aa0acac\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a92ef3ae7b9649158f426b6b29410dca\u0022\u003EGovernment Financial Position\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022221f0d68d7f846a5ae8288c21bd67c74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022221f0d68d7f846a5ae8288c21bd67c74\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the strength of the Government\u2019s finances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022f02ceaccb0af48dc9c3bba6ae6e9c8cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f02ceaccb0af48dc9c3bba6ae6e9c8cb\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Today, Treasury released the Financial Statements of the Government for the nine months to March. These showed core Crown tax revenue at $57.5 billion, $1.1 billion higher than forecast in the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU). The Crown\u2019s operating balance before gains and losses surplus was $3.3 billion, $910 million higher than the HYEFU forecast. This shows that after six months of this Government\u2019s financial management, the economy continues to perform well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229996e594a0ef49a3b8ef0957e36e6d76\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What did Treasury say contributed to these better than expected results? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022503f5a6af31e43f1ab2b8e6528dce067\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Modesty prevents me. Treasury said that corporate and income tax revenue was above forecast, indicating that business profits have grown more in 2018 than Treasury thought and that employment growth has remained strong. This is consistent with figures released in the household labour force survey last week, which showed the unemployment rate has fallen to its lowest level since December 2008. It is very pleasing indeed to see businesses continuing to succeed and create jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ff6dc5d3f0f409d9a1a0f99226b7bef\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What do these results show about the Government\u2019s fiscal management?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e68aac690b7241d88284f97eda3feeb7\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: These numbers show that the Government is delivering on its commitment to manage the books responsibly. While it\u2019s encouraging that the economy is delivering additional revenue, it is important that we use this revenue wisely. In Budget 2018, we will continue to balance the important priorities of responsible fiscal management and making the investments\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222554c6248ab6409bbd790c28fd591bd1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, that\u2019s enough. The member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280f3f08be727494fa3ad1c119cdf0a6f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they were so interested!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1af29f0e46446bca36b9a650e100221\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they\u2019re so interested they\u2019ve got an extra two supplementaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f65688d69ea44109d5416fefe679c04\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the finance Minister as to how it is that unemployment has fallen as the Government has announced an increase to minimum wages\u2014or, in short, why hasn\u2019t the sky fallen in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221af83cc0b8834281a5cfc2f34ccc5afb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister can answer the first part. I think he\u2019s not claiming responsibility for the second.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022871d5feb686d43a6a13eb7074a514fdd\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I\u2019m most certainly not, Mr Speaker. What I can say is despite the regular prognostications that the minimum wage increase will lead to huge reductions in employment, that has never been the case, and in fact we\u2019re very proud of the fact that unemployment is now the lowest that it has been in 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022585a455a1c5b4ac0b37cb3e6d0561970\u0022\u003EBusiness Confidence\u2014Employment Law, Immigration Policy, Offshore Oil and Gas Exploration, Overseas Investment, and Primary Industries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f09f7a4d41e5465c96cc1f037eac3420\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f09f7a4d41e5465c96cc1f037eac3420\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s policies and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00229d812f5828db4e30bff37f67c7ec6d25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d812f5828db4e30bff37f67c7ec6d25\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022580079659c364d589078110dae43a1be\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What effect on business confidence and investment will there be from David Parker\u2019s announcement on Q\u002BA in the weekend regarding nitrates and his statements that he hasn\u2019t done any analysis on the economic impact of reducing the country\u2019s dairy herd because \u201CWe\u2019ve won the political battle. Now it\u2019s about implementation.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022953b5ec6fea74afc95d4203ee95f4d66\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The characterisation of this issue is totally incorrect. We have been talking about\u2014[Interruption] The member may have missed this, but we have been talking about water quality and our desire as a Government to make sure that our rivers and our lakes are swimmable again, as the rest of New Zealand wants, since the election. We\u2019ve been talking for months about the need to update our national policy statement, which, I have to say, was totally ineffectual under the last Government, and we\u2019re currently consulting the Land and Water Forum, as we speak, which is also the group that the last Government used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cef5a7c3ba3e49e5aded0864cc4dc37e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in light of what David Parker\u2019s been saying, is switching to apricots the Government\u2019s new economic strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b883e3b92888402ca43d33346122f299\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member wants to make a mockery of making good land-use decisions, which is the example that the Minister was making in that interview, then be it on his head, but what we want to do is make sure that we up the value of our exports, that we take into account the environmental impacts of our current economic use of our land, and that we get better outcomes for New Zealanders. This side of the House is a bit more ambitious than that side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200e7c6d43cbb476db7a648c458cbe696\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What effect will there be on business confidence and investment from Damien O\u2019Connor signalling a climate tax for farmers, significant cost recovery for Mycoplasma bovis, and the Government no longer supporting large-scale irrigation projects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd3e35f305984adf846a7775b43c22b8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said, we\u2019ve got to make land-use decisions that make good, sound economic sense. That\u2019s why we\u2019ll no longer subsidise large-scale Crown irrigation schemes. When it comes to the issue of Mycoplasma bovis, we would not be having this debate if that last Government funded biosecurity properly. We\u2019re cleaning up the mess that Government left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f712a0fcc19b4d3097b830bee234e7cb\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will the decision to end offshore oil and gas exploration be attractive to overseas investors in oil and gas specifically, or in New Zealand more generally?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223df4ff018d6d4c71a1ef255e3548951f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Why rely on me when we can use a quote from OMV, which has agreed to buy the M\u0101ui fields and holds half this country\u2019s exploration permits, \u201CThis has no impact on existing licences, neither on production licences, neither on exploration licences. We are in a very good position in New Zealand.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237192c5d6712466dbe0ef8fc6ea81be9\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Well, then is the Prime Minister aware that Ballance Agri-Nutrients has this morning stated that a decision on its future $1 billion ammonia-urea plant is \u201Ca lot murkier\u201D because of the Government\u2019s oil and gas ban, and can she see the ripple effect on investments not just in the oil and gas sector but much more broadly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222919073c995447c09fdd184b6d0c5916\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Any\u2014and that member knows this; he\u2019s being mischievous\u2014exploration permit that would be issued in a 2018 block offer would not be available for at least 10 years. If any business says they have a security of supply issue, that\u2019s something that would have had to have been resolved probably 10 years ago, not today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd6ed67a7cae42078ef4098be7282aa4\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Are the Government\u2019s changes to the overseas investment regime likely to be good for business confidence and inward investment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acd56db7f612483583a888bcf312e356\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We want to encourage foreign direct investment that contributes to our productive economy. That\u2019s where all New Zealanders benefit, and we make no apologies for making sure that New Zealanders find that residential housing and farmland is affordable, and that they are able to contribute to their own economy domestically. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228ae51225a3143229a6dcded0fb96ae2\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what about her Government\u2019s industrial law changes; what effect are they having on business confidence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d1d00fe65d643238f4420e928f0e434\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d say that the current unemployment rate, the current revenue that we\u2019ve just announced today, says that this economy is looking in pretty good shape.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f18a86140b1494c8397d5b2ef338008\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the Government\u2019s current position on immigration policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022511e1646ae5348ef9e149379e826cd10\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I have to say, in a recent business meeting I had there were significant concerns raised about the last Government\u2019s policy settings and the impact that it\u2019s having on their ability to meet skills gaps. What this Government has said it wants to do is make sure that we\u2019ve got an education sector we can be proud of, a proper labour market test, and that the regions aren\u2019t left high and dry with skills gaps like we\u2019re already seeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da9f3d09489246709fd2ac0d91e1c676\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: So what is the Government\u2019s current immigration policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258272ee29eeb47de8ff00e874017c402\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly the same one we campaigned on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022114a4c225de74ddda0fcf4a04df8f4f8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Prime Minister to publish the coalition agreement so that these na\u00EFve, innocent questions aren\u2019t in the House like they are today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226461e845c82c4446bc78a9fc2e7aea5d\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think the business community understands what the Government\u2019s current immigration policy is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229389f4618bfc4669a5cd2d0a5cfd9b97\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. There has been no change in that policy. There is a small issue of making sure that we do the policy development work, which is under way now. But what I have to say is that in the intervening period, I\u2019ve had significant concerns raised with me around the effects of that last Government\u2019s policies and the impact they are having on people\u2019s ability to fill shortages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204b16ac660f540459b6f0d5d158246c3\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think that the various issues I\u2019ve raised in question time help explain the decline to a negative 23 percent in business confidence in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e2a895c8e264492bbec13b1d9555681\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I think it explains why this Government\u2019s popularity has gone up in the polls. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274ac04e413b44907a4b39743d1ad841a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Aren\u2019t there very real, very significant reasons for the business confidence \u201Celephant in the room\u201D, as she\u2019s recently described it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022431cc72177714237b4f2c0c781436f89\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s look back on history. The last time we saw this trend\u2014look, as I\u2019ve already acknowledged\u2014was when Labour had what was dubbed as the \u201CWinter of Discontent\u201D but at the same time had the strongest continuous economic growth since World War II, the lowest unemployment in the OECD, and delivered nine consecutive surpluses. It\u2019s all about proof of what the economy\u2019s doing, and on this side of the House we\u2019ve got good signs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022652d571b942448b2bf9a79441ced023f\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Crown Debt\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u00220079c5de1a8a444ea6005a031fb34bee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220079c5de1a8a444ea6005a031fb34bee\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Can he confirm that the Half year Economic and Fiscal Update shows the Government borrowing an extra $10 billion of net core Crown debt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6348155c44c4163996953afa155bd9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6348155c44c4163996953afa155bd9f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Without the benefit of knowing what time period the member is referring to, it\u2019s difficult to give a definitive answer. I can, however, confirm that the Government will, using the debt measure that the previous Government did, reduce net core Crown debt to 20 percent of GDP by 2021-22. I can also confirm that the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU) shows that, given that the economy is growing during this period, the amount of cash borrowed will rise while that percentage reduces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb25301ac85145e88ce72730c0aaaec3\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: What will be the annual debt servicing and finance costs\u2014to the nearest $100 million is fine\u2014of the extra $10 billion this country will now have in core Crown borrowing in 2022? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259222151e46a458db54174ab7241aa3d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my primary answer, the member will just have to wait to see the final cash amounts of the debt track when it comes to the actual accounts of the Government. But what I can say is that this Government has said from day one that we will slow down our debt repayment track because we actually need to invest in infrastructure like housing and make sure we restart things like contributions to the Superannuation Fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228acce086d33c4d198b0c3efd49cd3d9f\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister saying, 10 days out from the Budget, that when he announced in the HYEFU in December his commitment to borrowing an extra $10 billion, he did so without knowing what the debt servicing cost of that extra borrowing will be? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263195048cec9426fb2a6653e6b775e40\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s not what I\u2019m saying at all. What I\u2019m saying is that this Government has never made any secret of the fact that in order to clean up the mess left by the previous Government, we need to slow down our debt repayment track. Next Thursday, the member will be able to see all of the detailed costings that she\u2019s after. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a3af12c2c66451d88f65d9785592e24\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: So, over and above the $10 billion of extra debt he has already announced, how much additional debt will Crown entities incur in 2022? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022263a2a9667f54171bca3fa14baebd76b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve just said in my previous answer, the member will get all of the numbers that she\u2019s looking for when the accounts come out next week. But what I can say very clearly is that this Government has a plan which is fully costed. There are no ghost cheques written out\u2014like the previous Government did\u2014for houses or anything like that. This is a Government with a fully costed plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a0d8c6d37284164b2673736b4b2999f\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: So at the same time that he\u2019s touting large Government surpluses and a growing economy thanks to the previous Government, why is he racking up billions of dollars in extra borrowing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6620ea85b9e48e993974df43326072c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Too long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227624428a106e4b2494497c53c4a55196\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and committing hundreds of millions of dollars in financing costs to New Zealanders? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a50d2f2506548e1a408375907973ecb\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, all of that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298be8dc7df444ce6939136524ffb6c29\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The right honourable gentleman knows that the only judge of the length of a question is me. He also knows that we have a practice now of not interjecting during question time. So, because it\u2019s a double problem, I will give the Opposition an extra two supplementaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8fc94a287a94aa8a3dafbdedd88e0b3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: All that list emphasises is the scale of the challenge that the previous Government left us. When you\u2019ve got $2.4 billion worth of underfunding in health, when you\u2019ve got early childhood centres who\u2019ve had a real-terms funding reduction, and when you\u2019ve got police stations closing and leaks all through our hospitals, it\u2019s going to take quite some time to recover from that. But we\u2019ve got the plan to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201e5f346aff2405982a4c0549f46839a\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: So do the larger Government surpluses he has today touted mean that the Government now won\u2019t be cancelling its commitment to lower GP costs for all New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1e17d93b8af4f86a848c562cfd3d5b5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member will have to wait to the Budget to see what happened there, but I can understand her concern. Given that GP costs went up by 44 percent under her watch, this Government\u2019s actually going to do something about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a8679dc7aeb41d0a8ffbad7558801ae\u0022\u003EHousing\u2014Homelessness\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u00225f1868ac49b448acbb422762d60f31a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f1868ac49b448acbb422762d60f31a5\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: What is the Government doing to reduce homelessness this winter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002224dedf9366f74381a57d400e7574cbb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224dedf9366f74381a57d400e7574cbb3\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E On Friday, the Prime Minister announced the first step in tackling New Zealand\u2019s record rate of homelessness. Investment of $100 million will provide more than 1,500 additional emergency and transitional public and Housing First places. Budget 2018 will also fund Housing First services for more than 1,450 households over the next four years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230427c535bdd4efba43e70b3c62f6d58\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: What effect will these measures have on homelessness?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd41bed57ad74c94ad6524b136613b3d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Past neglect means that homelessness is likely to get worse before it gets better. Initiatives that we announced will mean 1,500 fewer families and individuals living in cars and garages this winter. This Government is committed to increasing supply. We\u2019ve stopped the State house sell-off, and now we\u2019re expanding Housing First. There\u2019s a lot to do, but this Government is committed to ending homelessness in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d856588bcd14905886f05ff77fe7714\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: What will the funding boost for Housing First deliver? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6f9d1c773aa4122abe4a86c6ccf063e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The $20.5 million of new spending in Budget 2018 will properly fund Housing First to more than 900 households in Auckland, Christchurch, Tauranga, Wellington, and Lower Hutt, which the past Government did not fully fund, and $43 million will expand the Housing First programme to a further and additional 550 households in other regions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab65463b57e44833a33694d97f3184b7\u0022\u003EKiwiBuild\u2014Cost, Private Sector, and Supply\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002298e7956f688a44198213bf9f32142e69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298e7956f688a44198213bf9f32142e69\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: How many houses will be built under the KiwiBuild programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002256fb9e214b334fc48476edc844e3e8af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256fb9e214b334fc48476edc844e3e8af\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E We will build, on average, 10,000 homes per year over 10 years. The KiwiBuild programme includes a larger, faster ramp-up than the Christchurch rebuild. It\u2019s comparable in scale to the first Labour Government\u2019s State house building, which went from 400 houses in the first year to 4,000 in the third. That member would know these things take time if her party had built any houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e01f96a3988e404ebdda695b45b58969\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: When he said in November 2017 that the Government would build 16,000 KiwiBuild homes before the next election, what did he mean?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022840004cd1a884587b9cff1b757170ead\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: What I meant was that we would build 16,000 homes in the first three years of the KiwiBuild programme\u20141,000 in the first, 5,000 in the second, 10,000 in the third. That building programme\u201416,000 in the first three years\u2014kicks in when the $2 billion Budget appropriation takes effect on Budget day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207a33e9c1379425ab5ef3c752155bd80\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: So why did he tell Parliament last week that the Government would now build only 8,000 KiwiBuild homes before the next election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280d2c59a2f13484e9ed5c611e4d2823e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it depends when the election is held, but our plan is to deliver 1,000 in the first year, 5,000 in the second, 10,000 in the third, and 100,000 homes by 31 June 2028.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289ea91ab1d3f496b907f01eae0ddb306\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: How will the private sector be involved in building KiwiBuild houses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cbd72ef52e248e68cb192af22f9e022\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The private sector will be engaged in the building of KiwiBuild houses through the buying off the plans initiative, which we\u2019re announcing today. Under this programme, and we\u2019re releasing the tender documents very shortly, KiwiBuild will be underwriting or buying off the plan houses\u2014KiwiBuild homes\u2014in private developments that would otherwise not be built. If the member knows the first thing about what\u2019s currently going on in the residential housing market, she will know that there are many developments that are stalled or not happening because developers do not have access to finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc23070d11441d2923843099f6863c5\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: What interest has there been from members of this House in building KiwiBuild houses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e0e87b981574a5cae17b84779244a44\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019ve had a great deal of interest from members of this House in the KiwiBuild programme, and I want to acknowledge in particular interest from one member of this House, who\u2019s passed on a developer in her electorate who would like to be part of the KiwiBuild programme. I thank the member Judith Collins for passing on that interest in the KiwiBuild programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2b2491955de4d4f9ac88975e6e6c318\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps the Minister would like to table that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221169cc84c9a140638a98dd7864333093\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I can\u2019t quite tell if that was a point of order or not. I think, seeing as it was a letter that mentioned the honourable member, there is an expectation now that it be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291e2bfd22a0d4da9a4219ac06576eda6\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214d8688b96ee4353a6300c3edf54b970\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, you don\u2019t need leave. It\u2019s just going to be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225738ecee3a574cdd872a67d7cc2407fb\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f9c863d2294463583d31561fc561f16\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I suspect the rule that you\u2019re referring to talks about official documents and an obligation on Ministers to table official documents. I think it would be somewhat of a stretch to argue that a letter from a member of the Opposition is an official document. It\u2019s not been produced by anybody official. However, I think, therefore, the appropriate course of action, given there is interest in this, is for the Minister to seek leave to table it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dda69ea20ce1471facdd673d293618eb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: My view is that it is a document which is received in the official capacity by the Minister. He has it in the House\u2014I have seen it\u2014and therefore I think it is appropriate that it is tabled under that Standing Order. So it will be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocument laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e37ec0544ad0436c836744c22e1c30a5\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: How many KiwiBuild houses has he built in his first eight months as Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227146f07c48884fcd8ff86229c1d94c10\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: We announced the other day, at McLennan, in the honourable member\u2019s electorate of Papakura, that at McLennan we have stepped in to save a failing development that the private sector was unable to take up. KiwiBuild has moved in. We\u2019ll have 30 KiwiBuild homes completed, with families moving in before Christmas. If KiwiBuild hadn\u2019t intervened at that point, there would still be grass growing on those sections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266af05e952044481bdc0ac933855249e\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the answer none?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c371f43ffbd4e9f92f7d5ae258cb2b0\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Those buildings are not yet completed, but I urge the member to stay tuned because there is going to be a procession of KiwiBuild announcements every week, and after a few months I guarantee she\u2019ll be sick of hearing about KiwiBuild homes that have been completed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c18d5012f0894bd4afe044e20ae84600\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: If the private sector is on track to deliver 127,000 houses over the next four years, as the Reserve Bank estimates, how does he propose building his now 8,000 KiwiBuild homes without taking carpenters, electricians, and plumbers from the private sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be76f06c89c140c6a611524b7f10e63b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The member should know that at the moment in the construction industry there is actually some increasing amount of capacity that\u2019s becoming available because financing constraints are holding up many developments. That\u2019s exactly the idea behind the KiwiBuild policy, which is about intervening in a failed housing market that under that Government completely failed to deliver the affordable homes that young Kiwi families need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203541860cd884f7490a1527b95398811\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Would he like to take this opportunity to explain to New Zealanders why his 16,000 KiwiBuild homes, costing taxpayers $2 billion, have now become 8,000 KiwiBuild homes, costing taxpayers $2 billion\u2014in just eight months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d13672474c85410c8f7054583b97d97c\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve always been very clear that the KiwiBuild programme will be ramped up over three years. The $2 billion capital kick-start that will be announced in the Budget will be spent approximately 20 times over the 10-year period. That is the most efficient investment that any Government could make in making affordable homeownership available to a generation of young Kiwi families, which is the opposite of the touching faith that that Government showed for nine years in a market that completely failed to deliver the houses that young Kiwi families need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022598bd7ae194643f385e41c46078c62b5\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Speakers\u2019 rulings 142(2) and 142(3) contain descriptions of what\u2019s deemed by previous Speakers to be official documents. The definition adopted by previous Speakers is much more narrow than the definition that you have just adopted. The last sentence of Speaker\u2019s ruling of 142(3) is: \u201CIt must be of an official nature and written by a Government official in the course of the officer\u2019s official business.\u201D That\u2019s significantly narrower than the definition that you have adopted, and I\u2019m concerned that it does actually set a difficult precedent for the House if any correspondence between members and a Minister is judged to be official documentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071e8d4896d44df883d24980d77ab371\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have it at hand, but there\u2019s a Standing Order that makes it very clear that documentation used to attack a member of Parliament can be tabled in Parliament. There are other remedies for members. You\u2019ve taken a pretty middle course here today, which has seen it dealt with. It\u2019s quite clear that that question would not have progressed or been settled on by the Government if they did not have that letter. So it seems quite reasonable, given it is part of authentication, although not required for the question, that it\u2019s tabled in the House, as you have suggested. The other point I would point out to the Leader of the House is that Speakers actually do make rulings themselves, without reference to the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa8ce02eb17c4e98b1df179553f01dac\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I\u2019m just going to look up the\u2014[holds up Speakers\u2019 Rulings]. I think the member needs to consider the whole of the Speaker\u2019s ruling, and the beginning of the Speaker\u2019s ruling is \u201CAn official document includes a document\u201D. It doesn\u2019t say that that is the only sort of document; it says \u201Cincludes\u201D. I think if the member had read the Standing Order in full\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de812b8d917142cfbbeb35dd4627a26e\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Read the one above it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e81230b225bd42d7bcc6b0d827cb593b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not going to read the one above it. I am going to give the Opposition two extra questions because a member\u2019s interjected while I\u2019m on my feet. But my view is that where a document has been received officially by a Minister, including by correspondence, the author of the document has indicated that she has no objection to it being tabled, and it is within my power to order it to be tabled; I have. Right\u2014where were we at? We\u2019re at Question No. 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ea08b4cb3e7473185647e5c7c9ce4c1\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Offshore Oil and Gas Exploration, Primary Industries, and Saudi Agri-hub\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002255dac9cca06944e9af39e7eeffb1c37d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255dac9cca06944e9af39e7eeffb1c37d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: Does he regard it as good practice to carry out economic analysis of the likely effects of proposed major policy decisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00226c2bddeead0048f4be816eeef589c632\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c2bddeead0048f4be816eeef589c632\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279e75310082b4eebbded815cf72b730f\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Will he insist, then, that a proper cost-benefit analysis is done before the Government makes decisions affecting stock levels in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249458ca6822848368f78dba0061b3ed9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: We don\u2019t need cost-benefit analysis to decide if it\u2019s the birth right of New Zealanders to have rivers clean enough to swim in. Cost-benefit analysis is used to compare the costs and benefits of different ways to remedy the problem, as will happen when we make our changes to the national policy statement on water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b63f0a2910d4f75818ac201c4ee0dde\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, did he not insist that a proper cost-benefit analysis was done before the Government made its oil and gas decision?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dda7c25d5774ff6bbd327e2b3165e1e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Economic cost-benefit analysis that does not take into account environmental consequences is about as useful as an udder on a bull\u2014therefore, I\u2019m not surprised that the member\u2019s party is advocating for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226253e50bad4146a8b2146a8813a64f1b\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: What would he say to the proposition that a Government that\u2019s not interested in understanding the effects of its decisions on jobs and on people\u2019s livelihoods is negligent in its basic duty to New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022786b731834c34c569dc89a94c61036c9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the implication in that question. I would further note that there is an enormous amount of analysis of the impact of climate change caused by fossil fuels, which I recommend that the member reads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f276312d2562432498e61c60dbe70233\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister tell the Land and Water Forum that New Zealand\u2019s dairy herd numbers need to be reduced by one million cows?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7ea612340864b4ca8b8686967db7d44\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcfd798a8cae469481158c78c7a817de\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: What Government initiatives is he aware of that have not involved a robust economic analysis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214ec4d57e7541ffa14ba377d8448e8b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m aware of a scheme to spend $11.5 million\u2014in fact, it\u2019s still spending it\u2014building a sheep farm in the Saudi Arabian desert, paying millions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223398c908bd1c4e5cae916648030454ea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfef04c8d7dd44c6bcfb216eb1a5eb6e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m being asked this question as Minister for Economic Development. I have responsibility for that project that is spending $11.5 million on a farm in the desert, and associated abattoirs. I believe it is in order for me to alert the House to the nature of that project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd2a504454ae4d5393b9515f0c1b691d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And I think there are two points: one, I\u2019m not sure that the member will add anything new; and, secondly, it\u2019s been repeatedly indicated that it is not appropriate to use Government patsy questions in order to attack the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273c0dcdd30b64c2abfef5d2191c638e2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226416816e27474f4ea8987185799468b0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019ve dealt with the point of order, Mr Parker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022074b2278347b4e1185964e66ded5ee59\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef3f306adb814badaae97da4ae78d59a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I want an assurance from the member that he\u2019s not going to contest my ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a95f3a32026448abc85d9660330a661\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: This question went to the need for economic analysis. This question goes to the need for economic analysis, and I\u2019m at a loss to see how it is not within the range of supplementaries on the primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ad143a5e0374c1c8cef151068e286bd\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Has the economic development Minister been able to ascertain from the environment Minister why he told the Land and Water Forum that New Zealand\u2019s dairy herd numbers need to be reduced by one million cows, reducing exports by $3 billion a year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccf1f1c221ef4085b74ed8b520fd41b0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Given that I hold both roles, I can absolutely assure the House I made no such request or assertion to the Land and Water Forum. What is clear is that cow numbers have already dropped. The point that I have been making in the media in recent days is that if you want to have swimmable rivers, you have to decrease nutrient discharges to water bodies. A cap and allocation of nutrient discharge rights in some area does impact on cow numbers. Regional councils understand that. They need a hand so that they don\u2019t repeat the same scraps as to the proper nutrient allocation methodology through each region in New Zealand when this can be achieved through national guidance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ebd64e6af15453791adc8edabf52d47\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014New Dunedin Hospital\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u002298da761ef8534846a63dd0b8659ab1bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298da761ef8534846a63dd0b8659ab1bd\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What recent announcements has he made regarding Dunedin Hospital?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c105a4e18e244ba19556351d965488d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c105a4e18e244ba19556351d965488d9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I announced the location of the new Dunedin Hospital. It will be built on the site of the former Cadbury\u2019s factory and parts of surrounding blocks. It\u2019s a major milestone for the project and represents a major step forward to delivering the 21st century hospital that the people of the South have waited for for far too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aeb246218bc4b3abf840aed666a2b88\u0022\u003EDr Liz Craig\u003C/span\u003E: So why was this site chosen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022262b98f1538b4a5490808903e15526e4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Early on, we made a commitment to build the new hospital in Dunedin\u2019s city centre to give certainty to the local community, including local business owners. This is important because it means the new hospital will retain important links with the University of Otago and existing medical facilities nearby and, indeed, the polytechnic. The site also provides flexibility for the design process and allows for further development down the track if it is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228757c7740e504deeb5ccfb13f3de72cf\u0022\u003EDr Liz Craig\u003C/span\u003E: So what are the next steps to progress this project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bd6ac86484b4053bc3ced1896f06ea4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Now the site is selected, planning and design will progress with haste, feeding into a detailed business case to be presented to Cabinet in the middle of next year. Work will also start on the resource management consent process. We remain on track to start construction before the next election. The people of the South have waited too long for their new hospital, which is exactly why we\u2019re moving ahead without delay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221efdc6fcdc4c498ab2163c5569af4379\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: On what date, to the nearest month, did the Southern Partnership Group first resolve to recommend to the Ministry of Health that the preferred location be the former Cadbury\u2019s site and surrounding blocks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb72b6ae48f4e40b206e6bb07f6f003\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have that detail with me today, but it was not so long ago, I can tell the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d9135dca7d247b5a0a0340042f44f29\u0022\u003EPolice\u2014Increase in Sworn Staff\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022079d15c039ef426282f5744a9aa1aa0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022079d15c039ef426282f5744a9aa1aa0b\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does he stand by his statement last November that his Government will be hiring 1,800 sworn police officers; if so, why did he tell The Nation this weekend that not all 1,800 officers will be sworn police officers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8796d1bdca44007ae0d2e28d8b05e6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8796d1bdca44007ae0d2e28d8b05e6c\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I stand by my statement, and, since last November, the New Zealand Police have provided me with more advice around the 1,100 community officers and 700 officers in the organised crime squads. This Labour - New Zealand First Government has always been clear that we are striving to deliver 1,800 new police officers over three years. That, Mr Bishop, is 920 more officers than the previous Government promised in Budget 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cdcedfb049e42b899328116922bb806\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why has he spent the last six months talking big about 1,800 extra sworn police officers, when it turns out the Government is actually only going to fund 1,100 front-line officers and 250 non-sworn, authorised officers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226777b4b9fdd04418ab7d8c808a1aceb5\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, first of all, your figures are wrong. But the member does seem confused. Let me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cf8f03e88fa4486b2eb402a8cc632f6\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what you said\u2014that\u2019s what you said on The Nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022250dcb6ac69c4b1a993a3a469322ac35\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: An authorised officer is considered a sworn officer, in all stats, by this Government and the previous Government, but they\u2019re more clearly understood as a front-line officer. For example, a police forensic accountant or a police electronic crime investigator can have the power to arrest a person, take finger prints, search a person, and execute a court warrant. The one power they do not have is the power to stop a vehicle. What they will be stopping is methamphetamine and other illicit substances being traded through international shipping networks and cyber networks such as the dark web.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224122b7df90e14c85a445928fd580fbcf\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he say on The Nation that it hasn\u2019t been completely decided what the mix of front-line and non - front-line police will be when the Budget is under two weeks away and decisions should have been locked away weeks ago, and does this explain why he didn\u2019t take any papers to Cabinet or Cabinet committee in the first three months of this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f7c43e105724dbaaeaf02eba59f5b4b\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll reiterate what I said on the The Nation. The member seems confused. The allocation between community officers and those in the organised crime squads hasn\u2019t been determined\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022176b8d0debd949bab61c979980edfb32\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: But we did that\u2014we did that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223475a9bf36914e528a7878286423ef8c\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but what we\u2019re thinking at the moment is around about 1,100 community officers and around about 700 in organised crime squads. So the organised squads, Mr Bridges, are those men and women who are out there fighting crime on the front line. In fact, the member will be very interested to know that the new organised crime squad in Tauranga has just busted a serious crime ring that was responsible for spreading and distributing synthetic cannabis into Auckland and up and down the country. These\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022577c27428fe2426fbf26784c3bc11b03\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member\u2019s been going on for far too long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227032a0de4b0f4211b69858eca5240b11\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is this the most dramatic increase in police numbers since 2005-08, the last time Labour and New Zealand First were involved in getting police numbers up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210479c3ce33d49039ea6157b58ed41e3\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: That member is dead right. The last time the police received any new numbers was when Labour and New Zealand First had a coalition agreement to increase new numbers. Thank you very much, New Zealand First.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237e18b8a27b142fba6a95170b3cf4f53\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Well, following on from that question from the Deputy Prime Minister, can he confirm the extra 383 cops on the beat since he became Minister were all funded through National\u2019s 2017 Safer Communities package?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9facf25143f4ba8b27be9ba65d1d3cc\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: What I can say is that we are striving\u2014[Interruption]. What I can say is that there are about 400 officers who leave the service every single year, so to deliver on our 1,800 we need to train about 1,000 new officers a year just to replace churn. We are striving very hard to deliver 1,800 more. This is, as the Deputy Prime Minister mentioned\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e45ff3d888ae421389940eec2c3ed230\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right. OK\u2014OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a99533bdc8d4057a5537b743a7acbe6\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the largest increase in police numbers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a070e79d26184c409232164cebad3b5d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c034abe11ab496baee1712cdda004f9\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014ever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e3a480c5ef74c5bbe3e07e2f81ec31a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I just say to Mr Nash, when he sees that I\u2019m on my feet, he will resume his seat. He doesn\u2019t deliberately look away like a naughty child.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bddeb30ad77748a4b0a590a86433da84\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, for goodness\u2019 sake! Stop that\u2014I reject that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213ecf8a8441345f688ad53d9a60ce2f9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb80141d8a3449be9707b63102866111\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I stand, withdraw, and apologise. I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not\u2014you know, I find it objectionable that you would stand there and compare me to a naughty child. I take personal offence to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2439b97b602479686b029e4be4414b4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Nash, it is my experience of naughty children that when they see their parents have observed them doing something they shouldn\u2019t do\u2014I was on my feet; you saw I was on my feet, and you, after that, looked away and continued to speak. That, in my opinion, deserves that sort of approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022453ccd1589bc404bb10fa20568cce4a2\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I disagree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba04a2b170734c8f9ca536843a82d71d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member might want to disagree, and the National Party will have an additional two supplementary questions for the interjection while I was on feet\u2014again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ecde2627c084d54ace6f2df0b3c51e5\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What assurances has the Minister received from the Commissioner of Police about the capacity to deliver on this coalition agreement commitment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233a7ac13e94c478a87fb1726bac8f969\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: The Commissioner of Police has given many assurances, most recently in the select committee for the Police financial review, that Police were on track to recruit, train, and deploy. It is anticipated that around 400 officers will leave the service during the average year. We are planning for this attrition with a target of around 1,000 new recruits to be trained each year, in order to meet our commitments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0e5ddb433124801addb49e6041f99e8\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Can he guarantee to the House that entry standards and police training standards will not drop under his watch, as part of the drive for 1,800 extra sworn front-line officers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022506be5a78c6e4477a3eb70eecada2efd\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022986783e5080a48ef813e1b5d51ad7cc3\u0022\u003EJob Creation and Employment\u2014Bay of Plenty, Fruit Picking, and Hawke\u0027s Bay\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022268720ee587b49b9b97b6435690721f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022268720ee587b49b9b97b6435690721f1\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Employment: How many unemployed people are there in the Bay of Plenty and Hawke\u2019s Bay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00229bccb35f8ec848b68a5ee21ad966fdd9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bccb35f8ec848b68a5ee21ad966fdd9\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment):\u003C/span\u003E As of March 2018, there are 9,800 unemployed people in the Bay of Plenty and 5,900 people unemployed in the Gisborne-Hawke\u2019s Bay region. Statistics New Zealand does not publish a breakdown specifically for the Hawke\u2019s Bay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b19a8a765954b6591a60a1bbc3690f0\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement of 13 February, \u201Cwe still have 343,000 workers who want more work but can\u2019t get it.\u201D; if so, does he think unemployed New Zealanders who can pick fruit should?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc638d74575e413e80b14a90aa07b8cc\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do stand by my statements on 13 February. In terms of unemployed New Zealanders picking fruit, it\u2019s not so simple. There are a number of complex reasons why people are not picking fruit. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcb48350617b4e3085d9f07639aa2173\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can I ask members on my left to settle down, please\u2014especially members not very far to my left, who are quite noisy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac304da4b89846cb849f039e3509e387\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not just about getting a big bat and whacking people and telling them to go out and pick fruit. There are lots of circumstances that come into play, like accommodation, like family obligations, like community obligations. It\u2019s not about using a big-bat approach all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3c17c57e8f64da1be2567aa3ec24ce4\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think that it might be difficult for people to come from the Pacific Islands to a country they don\u2019t know, stay in a region where they don\u2019t have family, get up every day and pick fruit, yet they\u2019re able to do it, yet he doesn\u2019t think New Zealanders should?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1cc86ec74ce435d95743251440dfb7a\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, it\u2019s hard for some of our Pacific Island brothers and sisters, but this Government is clear that we are committed to employing and increasing the workload for our people. We want to get New Zealanders first into this industry rather than go down the easy route that the National Party did for nine years. They never put a plan in or any organisation with regards to seasonal workers. We only have to go back to 2009 when John Key talked about a plan for seasonal workers and we got nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213ed640843bb4917a411ecd7c995143f\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I appreciated the Minister answering my question but felt that the bit about the National Party was unnecessary and going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f80e42b2a0b42a18144d7d46767d11e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member will now stand, withdraw, and apologise. I\u2019ve made it clear to the Deputy Prime Minister earlier in the day that the responsibility for the length of answers and their quality is mine. He was punished, and the member will withdraw and apologise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220408094093d64d2cb6471178cdf62b8e\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288e6e1c7f0d94441aa9689c80296b9d3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And with a light punishment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa91d4f7962d4151abf7ed321e287901\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: If unemployed New Zealanders in the Bay of Plenty and Hawke\u2019s Bay that are on an unemployment benefit are asked to do work and don\u2019t show up, should they be sanctioned?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a3cd7eae4404b84af7db4e1c0bc3350\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re still going through that process at the moment. This is not a punitive Government. Our Prime Minister has made it very clear that we are a caring Government, we are addressing that issue right now, and we won\u2019t be punishing everybody who mucks up, like the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e3539925b264006bef8f7cc838e4c29\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister of Employment doing to improve employment in the Bay of Plenty and the Hawke\u2019s Bay region?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d766e6c9934b44cb9b75aebf644b1b5e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: What a great question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f05a18d8ac344cc5a333fcfb298d143b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: You wrote it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d9e3ce505d44d0dbc3be94376362d01\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9954929ec684e0fbf3720d00203d591\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9be132a2ee24fe383c2b2430b09e13e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: We are investing in our regions. We\u2019re investing in our young people with He Poutama Rangatahi. We have Government initiatives like the Sector Workforce Engagement Programme, who are specifically working with key stakeholders in the horticulture and viticulture industry, and we have industry partnership engagement through the Ministry of Social Development\u2014so much going on at the moment. We\u2019ve got a plan in place in terms of what\u2019s happening in the Hawke\u2019s Bay at the moment. We won\u2019t go down the easy route and just hire foreigners all the time. We\u2019ll do the business right now to fix the problem, but our overall goal will be to employ New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c122927518a474c9b34a8f56a253312\u0022\u003EDefence Force\u2014Repatriation of Remains\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u002245b88c6ee4854c118530fd2e2405a31b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245b88c6ee4854c118530fd2e2405a31b\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Veterans: What progress, if any, has been made regarding the Government\u2019s decision to repatriate the remains of New Zealand military personnel and dependants who were buried overseas after 1 January 1955?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022199bd1141492497ebb54af10dae52ec7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022199bd1141492497ebb54af10dae52ec7\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister for Veterans):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou i \u014D t\u0101tou tini mate, koutou kua whet\u016Brangitia ki te korowai o Ranginui, koutou kua wehe atu ki Te P\u014D, ki Te Atua i te \u0101rai, ki te okiokinga o \u014D t\u0101tou t\u016Bpuna, haere, haere, haere!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E[Salutations to you collectively in regard to the myriad of our deaths, you who have become immortalised as a star upon the cloak of the great Sky Father, you who have departed to the void, to the god at the barricade and to the resting place of our ancestors, go forth, depart, farewell!]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EYesterday, I, on behalf of the Government, attended a ramp ceremony at \u014Ch\u0101kea airbase, welcoming home three New Zealand Defence Force personnel, who were repatriated from Fiji and American Samoa. It was a privilege to stand with the families of our fallen, as a Royal New Zealand Air Force C-130 Hercules returned Flight Lieutenant George Beban, Leading Aircraftman Ralph Scott, both from Fiji, and Royal New Zealand Navy engineering mechanic First Class Russell Moore, from American Samoa, to New Zealand soil. The repatriated personnel were received with a p\u014Dhiri and a tri-service guard of honour, after which they were handed over to their families. A short, private family service was held, followed by a moving haka. The families will now reinter their loved ones in a place and at a time of their choosing in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d820fd24abf8468bb6d631cf7953fcb7\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: What can the Minister tell us about the military personnel who were repatriated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0450f8b48c34514b90ece1d9844b04c\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, my office contacted you and said this answer may be a little longer to do it justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e204ee966c849d2814d5a9c7223618d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, yes, I understand that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c985c97ff08946bcbc3a0117979ef39a\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I can report to the House that flight lieutenant George Thomas Beban MBE served in the Second World War as an RNZAF medic. He was discharged at the conclusion of hostilities. He re-enlisted in 1948 as an RNZAF secretarial officer. In 1954, he was posted with his family to an RNZAF station at Laucala Bay as a senior secretarial officer and press liaison officer. He died of natural causes aged 40 on 31 August 1956 in Fiji, and was buried in the military section of the Suva Cemetery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ELeading aircraftman Ralph Henry Scott enlisted in the RNZAF as a fireman on 27 December 1956. He also served from 1952 to 1956 in the Royal Air Force as a fireman. After a period of basic training, he was posted to RNZAF Base \u014Ch\u0101kea as a fireman. In August 1960, he was posted to the fire crew at RNZAF station Laucala Bay in Fiji. He died of natural causes aged 28 on 15 October 1960 and was buried in the military section of the Suva Cemetery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EEngineering mechanic 1st class Russell James Craig Moore enlisted with the Royal New Zealand Navy on 28 July 1955. He was posted to the survey vessel HMNZS Lachlan, and while on the ship in Pago Pago, American Samoa, he died in an accident aged a very young 19 on 9 July 1956. He was buried in the naval section of Satala Cemetery in Pago Pago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ceba253fdd04d91a2ff60df3040e880\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: When will the remaining repatriation ceremonies take place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f25b5105c2640c292d1c422af6bec2b\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I can report to the House that there will be three more tranches of service personnel who will be repatriated: 29 service personnel and one child will come from Malaysia, and one service person from Singapore. They will be repatriated as one group and will arrive in New Zealand in mid-late August 2018. Two service personnel from the United Kingdom will be returned to New Zealand in mid-September 2018, and two more service personnel from the Republic of Korea will be returned to New Zealand in mid-October 2018. All of the ceremonies will follow the same format as that that was conducted yesterday, and will include senior representatives of the nation, senior defence officers and officials, and representatives from the veterans\u2019 organisations and communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227700726f377c4536aa5f7dbd9b9e30df\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: What additional support is the Government providing to the families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bace0682f51c4cae88b111da744df9bb\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: The coalition Government is funding the disinterment, repatriation, and reinternment of the deceased at no cost to families\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e5b0086f29843f5bc64707c9ce7422b\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: You appropriated it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220031f2407c514d08b6e6eeeab903272e\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: The contribution of $1,000 will be made towards a memorial\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227258f9c367cf48bbab473b0743a9c88c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: You appropriated it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ca41109248f46fba416914196af11a2\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for those reinterred in a public or private ceremony. The New Zealand Defence Force, Mr Brownlee, has assigned liaison officers to the families, and will also offer additional support to reinternments if families request it, such as pallbearers, a chaplain, and a bugler. If families do not wish for their loved ones to be repatriated, then the Government will continue to care for their graves overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273599313f66f438ba6e3e4ae9dc2d39c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before we move to the next question, during question No. 8 there was an interchange between myself and the Hon Stuart Nash. I twice used an expression which, upon reflection, I think was inappropriate. I want to apologise to Mr Nash and to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f60fb34b60d0466284a1365a5ace8924\u0022\u003EElectoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill\u2014Commentary\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00226ef2cd892fbf4eb4ace5c46f3a39ad82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ef2cd892fbf4eb4ace5c46f3a39ad82\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does he stand by his reported statement on submissions on the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill that he was surprised by how many were flawed and \u201CI am stunned at the number of times professors, legal experts, constitutional experts have actually got their analysis about the bill wrong\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f70e4af55ebf43ba81e4199c908048c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f70e4af55ebf43ba81e4199c908048c6\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E As I said to the member last week in response to, essentially, the same question, yes. However, I realise now that I was erroneous in the original quote that he made of me in that when I referred to academics, legal experts, and constitutional experts I clearly omitted Opposition backbench MPs!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022578e8894339f41dba9037664273541cf\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Would it be possible under his bill, as stated by Auckland University constitutional law professor Janet McLean, for a Government to avoid losing a vote of no confidence in this Parliament by dismissing and replacing an MP who has lost confidence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022824969777826452ab6ba094fa21cab44\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: As I also said to the member last week, decisions made by MPs, two-thirds in each caucus, as well as all the other people who accompany them in their decision making, are political judgments. Under the bill, when it is enacted, MPs will continue to make the same sort of political judgments they always have, including the last time we had electoral integrity legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252412d76260e40f0bf80d564a11f530b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was a very serious question about votes of no confidence and how this bill would change those, and I quoted one of New Zealand\u2019s most serious constitutional lawyers. The member did not answer the question as to whether it would be possible for a Government to avoid defeat in a no-confidence motion with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b25be509093a44509f9a7bc442bb288f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: But he did address it. Is there a further supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3362f29ce2a41909bc2523391b21134\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister read the highly critical editorials of his bill in the New Zealand Herald in Auckland, the Dominion Post in Wellington, The Press in Christchurch, the Otago Daily Times in Dunedin, or is it his view that these editors also all have got it wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206ee649dc7af4e689a9ded3eb73b9e8c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I have read those editorials and other things besides, and, as I said in the quote where he quoted me in his primary question, I am stunned that in all of those cases they proceeded on the basis of asserting that the legislation provides for the leader to remove a member from the House. That is not what the bill provides for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef90746e1ab74528b940155eb14f8264\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement in Parliament in which he specifically said his bill was consistent and compatible with the Parliamentary Privilege Act 2014, when the Clerk of the House has made a submission saying it is not; or is the Minister now saying the Clerk of this Parliament is wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fa1507bf1a747f09a59bfcc21e2195c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: That member is incorrect in his adumbration of the Clerk of the House\u2019s submission to the select committee on the application of the Parliamentary Privilege Act. He did not say it does not comply with the Act. He raised some concerns about what he described as a potential blurring of the boundaries, to use my language, of that Act. The bill is totally consistent with the requirements of the Parliamentary Privilege Act 2014.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e05753a922641c2b26cd43f6f498f5c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister say that his bill is consistent with that Act, when our Clerk of the House says that he has significant concerns about the compatibility of his bill with the Parliamentary Privilege Act, and why is he continuing to insist that everybody is wrong, including the Clerk of the House, on his bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022432224849b2746eab4bd0c4d0d73d1a7\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I can say it because I have read the Clerk of the House\u2019s submission to the select committee, and I\u2019ve read it very carefully. I do not share that member\u2019s understanding\u2014or, I suspect, misinterpretation\u2014of the Clerk\u2019s submission to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230cd03f216ae41d7ab927c48c89d0832\u0022\u003EEnergy and Resources\u2014Natural Gas Supply\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022a05e1a57e8e240f5890207600c07ec13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a05e1a57e8e240f5890207600c07ec13\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: When was the last significant hydrocarbon discovery in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00225f92731a6b4f4519b1e588f4fe2e9134\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f92731a6b4f4519b1e588f4fe2e9134\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m advised that the last significant hydrocarbon discovery was T\u016Brangi onshore gas in 2005. T\u016Brangi currently represents about 5 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total natural gas production. This was followed by K\u014Dwhai in 2008. This is also an onshore gasfield and represents about 2 percent of total production. I\u2019d point out to the member that both those fields are onshore and, of course, a block offer process for onshore Taranaki is currently under way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da84f45c55394dedb1909fbd33f8090b\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister so upbeat that, of the 100,000 square kilometres of permitted area, 10 to 15 percent could turn into producing fields, when, as reported, the last 79 wells drilled since 2006 have not seen a commercial discovery of gas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022296b6b8ea77144c28bd88c05798589e6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not just my natural optimism that makes me so upbeat; it is the fact that we have OMV\u2014the company that owns more than half the mining and exploration permits in this country\u2014who, just at the end of last week, said the exploration acreage is \u201Cenough to keep our firm busy for the next 10 to 15 years. The ban declared last month does not affect producing assets.\u201D They went on to say, \u201CThis has no impact at all. It has no impact on existing licences, neither on production licences nor on exploration licences.\u201D They went on to say\u2014I\u2019m sure the member will be very heartened to hear\u2014\u201CWe are in a very good position in New Zealand.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba70756c127741e189956e7aa6bc0629\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Considering the recent history has not been as positive as the Minister sounds, what is her plan for homeowners, businesses, and industries who rely on gas, when by the end of next year current gas reserves start to fall short of meeting current gas demand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb4152c04d744d52a8509e5a03672c84\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the assertion in the member\u2019s answer. The current quality assured\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022100bed42a314426cb8763d727c40d719\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a3db92c539d477eb36d0645b75f4b5e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, question. The current quality assured estimates for what the gas reserves are in New Zealand are published annually in the Energy in New Zealand publication. That currently sits at around 10 years. The numbers are currently being quality assured for 2018 and will be released. I\u2019d like to reassure that member that when the company that holds more than half the permits for mining and exploration in this country is proudly proclaiming \u201CWe are in a very good position in New Zealand\u201D, I have good reason to share their optimism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad175f331e4644bf94a654ae31844a0e\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of how many terawatt hours are required to switch gas users to electricity, in their thinking that this is a sunset industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d91d2fa27e99416ea39437d45245407e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: That is a hypothetical question, but what I would like to point out to the member is the potential that we have in the consents that exist out there\u2014100,000 square kilometres, roughly the size of the North Island. If you take the industry\u2019s own conservative estimates of a 10 to 15 percent chance of finding a find that is economically viable to drill\u2014this is 10,000 to 15,000 kilometres. We currently have 1,756 square kilometres in production. We are talking about an area 5.5 to 8.5 times the area currently in production. I think that member should stop scaremongering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d4fd78f3f4214d2db761f98d5348f44f\u0022\u003ECommittees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002289aa70bd855a4efa90945f46a532c2b4\u0022\u003EBusiness of Select Committees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002203c4c7a2bc4d48f7941d8b12f230e9e2\u0022\u003EReporting Dates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00222e0c5bd7fb2d472d804996159b284eae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e0c5bd7fb2d472d804996159b284eae\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the date by which\u2014(a) the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill be reported to the House by the Finance and Expenditure Committee be extended to 21 June 2018; and (b) the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill be reported to the House by the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee be extended to 31 July 2018; and (c) the Trusts Bill be reported to the House by the Justice Committee be extended to 5 September 2018.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis motion extends the report-back date for three bills that are currently before select committees. It extends the report-back date for the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill to 21 June 2018, it extends the report-back date for the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill currently before the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee to 31 July 2018\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5b06bd6f84a4e56989df927caa63f53\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can members not have conversations in the aisles now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022916bee043e36492fa5039058846195f5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and it extends the Trusts Bill report-back date, a bill currently before the Justice Committee, to 5 September 2018. In all of the cases of these extensions, the chairperson of the relevant committee has written to the Business Committee via the Speaker requesting this extension, and in all cases the Minister in charge of the bill has agreed to that extension. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ENormally, this would not be a matter that would need to come before the House, but at the meeting of the Business Committee that these requests were presented to, the Business Committee was unable to meet the requirement for near-unanimity. Near-unanimity has been interpreted in recent times as, effectively, a supermajority of the members of the House\u2014which, basically, means Labour and National, normally\u2014and without the National Party present at the meeting that test is unable to be met, and therefore matters that normally would be determined by the Business Committee will have to be determined by the House until such time as that changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI hope that this won\u2019t become common practice in the House, and I hope we won\u2019t have to do this regularly. I hope that the Business Committee will be able to resume its normal functioning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI would make one plea of the members opposite, and that is that on occasion\u2014I spent nine years sitting on that side of the House, and on many occasions I found that I disagreed with the proceedings of the House. I was a member of the Business Committee for most of the last six years that the Labour Party was in Opposition, and whilst I disagreed very vigorously with some of the rulings that we were subject to, I never\u2014and the Labour Opposition never\u2014sought to stop the Business Committee from functioning and conducting the affairs of the Parliament as it should. I simply leave that as something that I hope the members opposite will reflect upon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002215bfe766694740ecbf8fc1b5dae21dba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215bfe766694740ecbf8fc1b5dae21dba\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I should thank the Leader of the House for his gentle lecture at the conclusion of his comments. There are a number of ways you could look at these sorts of things. Firstly, the Business Committee is something that does its work behind closed doors, and, you know, it would be kind of odd that we don\u2019t have something in front of the Parliament during what I understand is \u201CTransparency Week\u201D, where there should be a greater look and a degree of scrutiny at everything the Government is up to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhat sits behind this, of course, is a totally dysfunctional legislative programme being run by the Government. Take, for example, the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill. Well, there are some very relevant points here. Firstly, this is the third time the Government has sought to extend the period for report back of that bill. We know why it is\u2014we know why it is. It\u2019s because foreign investors are running from this country at a rate of knots. So you get the housing Minister coming in here today saying that the private sector can\u2019t function properly in the housing market because of a lack of finance. So the Government is stepping in, alongside the finance Minister, who\u2019s confirmed that, yes, the Government is going to borrow an extra $10 billion to try and facilitate some of these things. So there\u2019s never, you would say, the scrutiny on some of these provisions that perhaps there should be, and maybe the House does need to, from time to time, take a little moment to work out whether or not the way the Government is operating its legislative programme is to the betterment of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWe have no particular desire to see relatively straightforward matters that can be dealt with by the Business Committee not done so, or for the Business Committee to be rendered ineffective. But I do have to say that perhaps the threats that came through during the last week about not supporting some of the select committee changes that are consequential to a previous Business Committee agreement sort of indicate an attitude that the Government takes that the Parliament belongs to the Government. It doesn\u2019t; it belongs to parliamentarians, and it is incumbent on the Government to get the votes for every stage they want to put a piece of legislation through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAlso, if the Parliament is to grant leave for particular actions, then, quite clearly, there has to be that support. I was a little concerned to hear that when you\u2019ve got a Government that forms, I think, now, 62 or 64 or 63 seats\u2014whatever\u2014and then an Opposition that sits at 58 seats, that apparently, if they get together, that\u2019s near-unanimity, but if there\u2019s a sort of hint that there might be some kind of new near-unanimity declared from this Speaker, I hope that\u2019s not the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00223f29552c89f84d91b38af9d5ffa68e61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f29552c89f84d91b38af9d5ffa68e61\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E It wasn\u2019t my intention to participate in this debate, but I do need to correct a statement made by the Hon Gerry Brownlee. It is not true to suggest that the Government has been making threats about not supporting changes that the Opposition members want to make to their select committee membership. Those changes are, of course, made by the Business Committee under the auspices of near-unanimity, and, of course, when we cannot achieve near-unanimity, the Business Committee cannot make such a determination. The members who were present at the Business Committee agreed to the Opposition\u2019s proposed changes to select committee membership, but, unfortunately, due to the failure of the National Party to show up, we were not able to make that determination. The Government is not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d023a00e1b1c49c6b2787d7bf5ac838f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Order! Order! I\u2019m now going to\u2014after having sort of two and a half speeches mainly not on the motion before the House\u2014require all members to speak only to that motion now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220448718fba9a4f7aa61a478bc5943c1b\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just want to conclude by saying I agree with the Leader of the House that this is not a habit that the House should get into. These are matters that can easily be dealt with in a constructive fashion at the Business Committee, and we look forward to the resumption of normal business at that committee as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002246812b6fa8f445a58254e09e900bb65a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246812b6fa8f445a58254e09e900bb65a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What I\u2019m going to do is ask Iain Lees-Galloway to very carefully consider the comments that he did make on reporting back from the select committee, because it\u2019s certainly not consistent\u2014the member indicated that the committee had agreed but that there was not a majority. The matter was not put to the committee. I think the member might want to correct his statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00224c41aee6a4c74621a1545cf661c6a47f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c41aee6a4c74621a1545cf661c6a47f\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to correct the statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256f01e76af1c4ebcab3bb58fcf81a6a7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a429c8d171ca4545b9f7fd5764beca84\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: To put it precisely, the people who were in the room were of a view that the Business Committee should support those changes. The Business Committee, of course, did not consider that formally or make any determination because it was not able to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002293e3078753b74343a2127ed5f796d791\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293e3078753b74343a2127ed5f796d791\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc465a083c97423eb746403e5fb7843c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc465a083c97423eb746403e5fb7843c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E The motion that the House considers is the extension of a number of bills, of which I want to particularly talk about the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill, for which the Parliament is being asked to extend the report-back date to 21 June. I want to remind the House what this bill is about. This bill was one of the 100-day programme bills. It was a bill that was presented by Government members as a very simplistic, straightforward exercise of just ensuring that homes were only able to be purchased by New Zealanders. The issue is that this is the third extension that has been sought to this bill\u2014that is, the Government\u2019s programme is so confused and the Government\u2019s original policy was so poorly thought through that here we are, over six months after the Government coming to office, still messing with the timetable of passing a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, I perfectly understand why the extension is being sought. You see, the core issue here is that overseas investment in the property market has been quite critical to supporting the massive growth in house construction. Over the last five years, we\u2019ve seen 20 percent compound growth, and where the Government today in question time admitted that a major problem in continuing the rapid growth in new home construction is the issue of the access to finance and is the issue of the access to investment, and that further confirms\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b31bc6ac73f549509c0ebd6aec2ccccd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I did indicate while Mr Lees-Galloway was speaking that I would from now on require members to speak narrowly to the motion. We\u2019re not going to speak at all about the benefits of the bill or the reasons to be for it or against it. We are only going to talk about whether or not it should be extended. This is the second warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022429f04af22a34f87a1e27d339ccf3370\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Isn\u2019t it a little hard for the House to consider whether or not it should extend a report-back date on a bill if there isn\u2019t some discussion about the rationale for the bill existing in the first place and perhaps some of the reasons why the extension is being sought? We haven\u2019t heard from a select committee chair. We didn\u2019t hear anything from the Leader of the House. We didn\u2019t hear anything from his associate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9cb108f8d054d729f625f7bfc069b1c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I thank the member for his intervention. I think Dr Smith is well past that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf023bdde3c541aead0e3fe6a40c0e13\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. So the issue for the House is whether we should be further extending the time frame for this bill to be resolved. We have seen contradictory issues around the detailed importance in this bill and the issue around housing. It should not take this Government until 21 June\u2014next month\u2014to finalise these issues. I\u2019d further point out in terms of the time line that Government Ministers have made the point that they want this bill passed quickly in respect of the programme around trade negotiations and the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which was the original justification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also considering the extension for the Trusts Bill. That is to be extended by the Justice Committee to 5 September. Those of us that are members of the Justice Committee will know that there is an enormous workload before that committee with a whole range of bills. But it reflects very poorly on the Government that a piece of legislation that literally involves hundreds of millions of dollars of investment\u2014the way in which trusts right through the banking and the private sector work\u2014is to be delayed by a further three months. We need to acknowledge that by making that extension, we are extending the uncertainty for those tens of thousands of trusts, that high level of interest in that trust law, and the implications for so many in the sector. In this House today, we\u2019ve been talking about the decline in business confidence that is driven by uncertainty, and the further extension for the Trusts Bill will add to the business uncertainty that there is about law in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe third bill that we are being asked to extend the time frame on, taken through to 31 July\u2014another three months\u2014is the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill. Again, I have to ask the question of Government members to justify as to why, in an area of financial services\u2014an area, again, where there are billions of dollars of investment and of issues of uncertainty\u2014the House would want to grant that further extension. This is not a new bill; this is a bill that\u2019s been on the Order Paper and that\u2019s been through processes of public consultation going back all the way to 2015. Why is it that it is not possible for the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee to get on and consider that bill, to report it back by its timetable, and not to further extend that programme to 31 July 2018?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhat we see in this motion is a Government only six months old and its programme of legislation is facing delay after delay after delay because of a lack of finalisation of the policy in three bills, all of which actually have substantial financial implications, whether those financial implications are in respect of the trust law, whether those financial implications are in respect of the large scale of investment that\u2019s taking place in cities like Auckland in respect of housing development, or whether it\u2019s in the financial services sector in the bill before the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. So my challenge is that Government members need to justify the delay, justify why it is that these bills\u2014I can hear the words of Opposition from only two years ago, that banning foreign buyers was very straightforward and the Government could do it yesterday. Well, actually, this piece of legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022737cb9bfcfe040a79e4f0abebd5f3795\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022737cb9bfcfe040a79e4f0abebd5f3795\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member has, for the third time, gone off the topic of this and on to the quality of the legislation. His speech is terminated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00223a8538afd1374c8ea3b8540f476977c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a8538afd1374c8ea3b8540f476977c9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for Trade and Export Growth):\u003C/span\u003E I am briefly responding to the reason why an extension is sought for the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill. The last speaker is correct that underlying the timetable is the date for the coming into effect of the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) agreement. When the bill was originally introduced, there was doubt as to when it was going to come into effect. That is beyond the control of the New Zealand Government because it depends on the ratification moves of other countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAs events have unfolded, it\u2019s become clear that we have a little more time. There is a need to get it right, not just in respect of overseas investment in existing homes but also in respect of foreign direct investment into forestry. Because of the greater knowledge we now have as to the date when other countries will be likely to ratify the CPTPP, we can allow the select committee that additional period of time to finish its business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00228aa928ca50d848f2af43982991d4bd00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228aa928ca50d848f2af43982991d4bd00\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the Government motion that\u2019s been put forward by the Hon Chris Hipkins today, which, as my colleagues have said, extends the time line, extends the report back of three very important pieces of legislation. Finance is really at the heart of an economy, and the ability to ensure certainty and stability, whether it\u2019s in the area of investment, whether it\u2019s the area of trust law or of financial services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo in terms of the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill\u2014this, of course, has been around the traps a couple of times seeking extensions, and many people have been contacted about this particular piece of legislation. There are grave concerns about just what direction the Government is heading in. In terms of investment decisions, the lack of certainty that has been provoked by the incoming Government is quite disturbing, and that is on a number of fronts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe Minister that spoke before me, David Parker, referred to a number of matters. One was related to changes in the forestry settings. The Minister will know in terms of that particular piece of legislation just how complex it is, and so it would have been helpful for the select committee to have had the decent level of scrutiny required, a longer period of time for the submitters themselves to have input, and many of those that submit\u2014as a previous Minister, those who get very involved are actually the legal fraternity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a9f3999f47d409587dd7f4ea6d43b01\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I\u2019m now going to require the member to address the question before the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0bd537d5b0c47589663a2aebfa0d144\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. So in terms of an extension to the report back, there is a significant number of players who are involved in this work who are seeking certainty, who perhaps have already made decisions not to invest in New Zealand. The Government has talked about its housing priority. So the time frame of this report back of the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill being reported back to the House by the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2014the motion is to extend that to 21 June 2018\u2014will, of course, create a number of issues. The select committee has needed, in the past, time to consider the issues fully. There hasn\u2019t been any reassurance in this debate on this motion to extend the report back of the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill around what that will actually entail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe Minister spoke before me. He raised the issue of forestry. He raised the issue of housing. He raised the issue of what was the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which has had a name change. But nothing really has provided certainty in terms of the report back on this important piece of legislation and, of course, the others that I haven\u2019t referred to\u2014the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill. The motion seeks for that extension to the House by the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee\u2014gosh, these select committee names are a bit of a mouthful\u2014to be extended to 31 July 2018, and then, of course, the Trusts Bill to be reported to the House by the Justice Committee, seeking an extension to 5 September.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EExtensions aren\u2019t granted lightly. In the 52nd Parliament, there\u2019s been a very clear indication that extensions shouldn\u2019t be sought. They shouldn\u2019t be sought lightly. The House, I don\u2019t believe in this debate, has heard why these should be extended sufficiently. I\u2019m hopeful that the members opposite with responsibility for this legislation\u2014I would\u2019ve looked forward to a longer contribution from the Minister responsible for the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill. It is a complex piece of legislation, and if it requires an extension it hasn\u2019t really had the full issues of why that extension is being sought in addition to the earlier extensions that had been sought and granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI would be hopeful that members opposite would provide the House with very good reasons why extensions should be granted when other pieces of legislation have had shortened report-backs and shortened ability for the public to contribute. I think there\u2019s a responsibility, when there is a shortened report back and less ability for people to participate in the select committee process, that then, when the select committee is seeking an extension to a report back, there is some balance that is put in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI\u2019m curious to know from the Minister responsible for the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill why it is that the submitters would have less time and the committee would have a longer period of time, given something that was originally thought to be quite simple. The Overseas Investment Amendment Bill has a number of different components in it, as the Minister has referred to, both in terms of the purchase of land, the purchase of houses\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00224be5b5478c3e4f25b80bc0e80c829813\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224be5b5478c3e4f25b80bc0e80c829813\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is now into the substance of the bill. Her speech is also terminated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecbf9b9659c84e7fa0b5ec0e314f6d0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecbf9b9659c84e7fa0b5ec0e314f6d0e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe question was put, That the date by which\u2014(a) the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill be reported to the House by the Finance and Expenditure Committee be extended to 21 June 2018; and (b) the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill be reported to the House by the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee be extended to 31 July 2018; and (c) the Trusts Bill be reported to the House by the Justice Committee be extended to 5 September 2018.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b21e279f38314da9a75355ed3e4f74de\u0022\u003ETariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cbc5bf0b1a1f40c19a7650dc3d531056\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002216c428b696814e1f86df18c50974ae8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216c428b696814e1f86df18c50974ae8e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for Trade and Export Growth):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223d04244f20254d39811e52eb3765e294\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000291\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022219582793c9149169e28683d470d7459\u0022\u003EExclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b36c3294f7f446ba9838bb667a404a21\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e727370d4709488c8d9a1ba93002e2d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e727370d4709488c8d9a1ba93002e2d8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Environment Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill will be reported to the House by 11 June 2018 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting, except during oral questions, during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside of the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill is relatively short. It makes an amendment to the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act 2012\u2014an Act that was amended just last year. One might ask oneself why this Act, which regulates activities in New Zealand\u2019s exclusive economic zone and the extended continental shelf, which is necessary in order to promote the sustainable management of natural resources and protect the environment from pollution\u2014why it is that this Act is necessary at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe sad reality is that this amendment bill, which we hope will be an Act in due course, is necessary to correct one of many, many, many errors in the Resource Legislation Amendment Act that was passed by this House by a fair majority\u2014I think it was one or two votes\u2014pushed through by the M\u0101ori Party in support of the National Party, when the ACT Party, United Future, the Labour Party, and New Zealand First were all voting against it because it was such an appalling piece of legislation. What that Act did, amongst many other mistakes, was take away the right of the Crown to recover the costs of applicants in respect of resource use applications made in the exclusive economic zone (EEZ). The prior law had been that the costs of the applicant, by and large, can be recovered so that they don\u2019t fall on taxpayers. The effect of the bill that the National Party promoted was to accidentally remove that power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe effect of this is that if this amendment legislation is not passed by this House, and until it is, the taxpayer foots the bill for the incompetence of the National Party. The average cost recovery, in respect of some of these very significant applications, for mining in the EEZ, for example\u2014the costs of those often run over a million dollars. So the effect of this, if it\u2019s not passed, is hard to quantify in that we do not know how many applications are going to be made in the EEZ in the future, but we do know that in the past they have been, and when they are made, the cost of dealing with the application is significant. At the moment, that cost now falls on taxpayers\u2014hard-working taxpayers\u2014who should not foot the bill of costs, and, as a consequence of the mistake of the last Government, they had that effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe process cost\u2014and the cost in respect of this intervening period\u2014will still be significant. This legislation is not retrospective. There is a current application before a board of inquiry that will incur costs on behalf of the Crown that cannot be recovered from the applicant because of the incompetence of the last Government. This will run to many hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is a bill that will be borne by taxpayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn addition to that additional cost to taxpayers, there is the cost of this process. The cost of legislative processes is not cheap: all of us here are paid; our officials are paid; the Clerk of the House is paid; we have occupancy expenses. The cost of any piece of legislation is\u2014you know, it\u2019s necessary as a part of a democracy, but you ought not to waste that on legislation that is unnecessary but for the incompetence to pick up this error in the earlier legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt wasn\u2019t for haste, in respect of the Resource Legislation Amendment Bill, which became an Act. As the select committee report notes\u2014well, actually, the select committee report on that piece of legislation records the appalling process that was run in respect of that application. The bill was referred to select committee on 3 December 2015. Submissions were heard throughout the country by the then select committee\u2014about 130 submissions. I was unlucky enough to be involved in that prolonged process, and we heard submissions in Wellington, Auckland, and Christchurch. Many were complex, but those submissions were heard by 2 June 2016. By the time this work had been finished by the select committee, there had been numerous provisional time periods that had passed. Everyone was put to enormous effort. By the time they did their deal with the M\u0101ori Party, they\u2019d used up another six months and their departmental report ran to 400 pages. I was part of that select committee, and by the time it came to be considered, virtually every hard-working member of that select committee\u2014we\u2019d actually forgotten a lot of the submissions and detail that we had been given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265bbb148c756433b99a66695b7f8a659\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Only the Labour members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e5d87219b4348689124c6368e4ee717\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u201COnly the Labour Party\u201D, says Scott Simpson. The Hon Scott Simpson said\u2014well, actually, I think, at the time, he was chairing the select committee, and he failed to pick up this error as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f90436ca73b425e9e8684c27729dc78\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: So did the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022611026d10e9d4de4ae42753b2b1080da\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Not only did his colleagues do it, but the chair\u2014he says \u201CSo did that member.\u201D Well, actually, we criticised that legislation. We criticised the process. We actually warned the House that this legislation was so flawed that it ought not to proceed. We lamented the poor process. We actually said that that poor process hadn\u2019t been the fault of the committee and then, somewhat generously to the chairperson, we also said it wasn\u2019t his fault; it was actually his master\u2019s fault. But the process for considering that bill, as was recorded in that select committee\u2014it says the process for selecting the bill has been a shambles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere are many aspects of that bill that were detailed in the select committee as being poor, but we warned of this very outcome\u2014that rather than making the resource management processes both under the Resource Management Act (RMA) and the EEZ better, they were making them more complex, they were making them worse, and they were going to add to costs. This is just but one example of where that shambolic legislation added to costs. Those costs are falling on taxpayers\u2014they are falling on taxpayers both by having to pick up these costs that the last Government managed to remove the cost recover provisions in respect of and through the cost of this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, I am hopeful that we will hear from the National Party that they agree they shouldn\u2019t be wasting more time on this process and not arguing for hours and hours the referral motion, which says it slightly shortens the report-back time for the select committee. It is a very narrow bill. We don\u2019t, in this bill, try and fix all of the other numerous errors in the underlying piece of legislation, because that requires a bit more time and thought and hearing from submitters. But this particular amendment should fly through, I think, because the National Party should be craven in their apologies to New Zealand, be craven in their apologies to the House, be craven in their failure to respond to the select committee report that warned that these sorts of errors were going to happen in this legislation, and admit that the Opposition had it right\u2014that the Labour Party had it right, that the Green Party had it right, that the New Zealand First Party had it right, that the ACT Party, on that occasion, had it right, and that that legislation was always deeply flawed, as is proven once again by the need for this amendment legislation. With that, I support the first reading of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002264b56bfac5794bc0b109aa5287503c53\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c32443df53b3409cac0e19cec1a9f720\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9dae98a1eac49338d8fa539266806d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9dae98a1eac49338d8fa539266806d7\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to make a personal explanation to correct an answer given in question time today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234b8f486ffdc47f187543be5915af0db\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222d30c679988426f901ab6e8c28efd50\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Today in question time, in response to a supplementary question following Question No. 7, I said that a detailed business case relating to the Dunedin Hospital rebuild would be presented to Cabinet in the middle of next year. It is currently my intention to take a detailed business case to Cabinet this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bcfd284dac2b44b1a5206174e1935e27\u0022\u003EExclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022caf7bba6036445a99aee06ad3ed301f4\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000315\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9a1babd33ff45cfa63fd308efc84a50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9a1babd33ff45cfa63fd308efc84a50\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Methinks the Minister who introduced this bill doth protest too much. He was a member of that select committee that I chaired in the last Parliament, and, at the time, he went on and on and on about perceived inadequacies of the bill. The Resource Legislation Amendment Bill was the largest bill considered by the then Local Government and Environment Committee in the last Parliament, and it was a very detailed bill. It ran to some 700 clauses, it ran to over 250 pages, and, as the Minister said, the departmental report ran to about 450 pages. We heard submissions from interested parties from all around the country. Much of it was very detailed, much of it very technical, and if the Minister, who was so critical in introducing this bill, was so clever and so smart, as he likes to be\u2014usually the smartest man in the room is how he likes to define himself\u2014why didn\u2019t he pick it up? Why didn\u2019t he and his smart colleagues pick it up? Well, the simple answer is that it was a minor drafting error in a large, complicated, and technical bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EReally, when the Minister introducing the bill criticises this legislation and the need for a slight amendment, really what he is doing is criticising the very hard and dedicated professional work of the Parliamentary Counsel Office, who did, on that bill, an extraordinary job\u2014an absolutely extraordinary job. How those folk manage to do the work that they do on such long and complicated pieces of legislation always amazes me. They do a great job on behalf of this Parliament and on behalf of the people of New Zealand. To, effectively, criticise them, in the way that the Minister has, I find reprehensible and appalling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThis is a very minor, technical piece of amendment legislation, and, indeed, actually, it really doesn\u2019t need to be a bill in its own right. This is something that normally would be amended by way of a statutes amendment bill, and there is opportunity for the new Government to do that. But so bereft are they of their legislative agenda and their legislative programme, that they appear to be using this very minor, technical, administrative amendment to correct a mistake\u2014a mistake that was a drafting error: a simple drafting error in a large bill. We know it was a simple drafting error, simply, because the Cabinet minute indicates that the ministerial policy was set correctly and right and it followed the principle that is well established in the principal Act: that the user pays. So the Cabinet minute\u2014and there were some 400 Cabinet minutes relating to this bill\u2014clearly indicates, as it does in the impact summary that has been provided by the Ministry for the Environment (MFE), that the error relates to cost recovery provisions for boards of inquiry appointed under the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act 2012, and that this has resulted in a misalignment between what Cabinet intended when it approved proposals to align the decision making under the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act with the Resource Management Act. So it\u2019s a simple matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThen that asks, and begs the question, as to why the Government is seeking to use the time\u2014the valuable time\u2014of Parliament and a select committee process to make an amendment of this sort through a full legislative process. Really, all it can be is one of two options. The first option is probably that they want to flesh out and fill out, somehow, an incredibly thin legislative agenda to keep the House busy, in some way, over the next few months while they find a way to bring effect to their grandiose promises and slogans of their election campaigning to policy fruition. They\u2019re all finding that an awful lot more difficult than they first imagined. The process of turning slogans into policy action is incredibly difficult, as the new Government is finding out. So that\u2019s one option that they have, in terms of bringing this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe second one is rather more cynical and, I suspect, may have something to do with their real agenda. That is that they propose to use this very simple, technical amendment legislation to act as some kind of Trojan Horse for bringing to the House some kind of Supplementary Order Paper that will fulfil a wider agenda than we are being told about today. Now, I would hope that that\u2019s not the case, because this is a Government that campaigned on openness and transparency. They haven\u2019t delivered on that, of course, and, only six months into it, this has been one of the most closeted and deeply hidden Governments that we\u2019ve had in the history of our Parliament. So we know to be suspicious\u2014we know to be concerned and worried about what they want to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIf we come back to this bill, it\u2019s a very simple matter. There were five submissions made when MFE went out for discussion with it. All five came back and said that they supported it. So, I do wonder what the motive of the Government is in bringing this to the House. We do know that there does need to be a correction, and we accept it on this side\u2014it was a technical error and it does need to be corrected. We argue that this is not the best way to do it, that this is not the most efficient or effective way to do it, but we will support this bill. What\u2019s more, we will support the Government\u2019s intention to bring it quickly to resolution so that the error can be corrected and so that the taxpayer is not going to be put at expense unnecessarily, due to a very minor drafting error. It will be, probably, during the course of this administration\u2014no matter how short it might be\u2014that they will probably bring legislation to the House that does need amendment at some stage too. So there will be a lot of that yet to come in this Government\u2019s short tenure, I\u2019m sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ETo sum up, and because we don\u2019t want to extend it any longer than is necessary, this is a minor, technical, administrative correction of a drafting error to an incredibly long, detailed, and complicated principle Act that had many moving parts. On this side of the House, we support the bill, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI seek leave that, at the conclusion of first reading, the bill proceeds forthwith through all remaining stages without debate and on one vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00227598280230644da89f6c4a0cb6293db0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227598280230644da89f6c4a0cb6293db0\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u00221c413f67ff8c4efcab73ee90a5a703b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c413f67ff8c4efcab73ee90a5a703b0\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Associate Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a very brief call on this particular bill. It is the case that the devil is in the detail. The point was well made by my colleague Minister Parker when he said that there were a number of fixes that needed to happen but he was going to tackle this one first because, fundamentally, he didn\u2019t believe that costs should be attributed to the taxpayer when they should have rightly gone to private interests\u2014in this case, an applicant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI have heard the comments raised by the speaker before me, Scott Simpson: the issues about filling in time in the House and that the bill is a guise for wider reform. Actually, the bill is an opportunity to find a necessary response to a fix that was intended but never got done, and that the Minister could have done but didn\u2019t, and that the select committee, in all its consideration of all the submissions that went before it, still didn\u2019t pick up. So while the previous speaker has said it was the intention, the simple fact of the matter was that it was never ever done. So one has to ask the question: was it really the intention to implement the fix that Minister Parker is proceeding to undertake today? Was it really the intention of the sponsoring member of the Resource Legislation Amendment Act to actually ensure that costs didn\u2019t pass on to taxpayers? Well, we have to assume, actually, when the Resource Legislation Amendment Act was passed and there was no change of this nature, that, actually, it was what we believe it to be\u2014a set of amendments that intended to pass on costs to the private taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m pleased that Minister Parker has addressed a small but important issue. I\u2019m pleased to see the advice that has come forward in terms of the need to ensure that a fix is addressed. Although we have received advice that the exact costs that will be recovered aren\u2019t exactly known, it\u2019s an important fix that has to take place. I would invite the select committee, in their consideration of this matter, to investigate further the range of cost recovery that could be contemplated or that will apply. I\u2019m sure that will attract some attention, and it certainly will attract attention from those submitters who were briefly contacted on this amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAs I say, Minister Parker recognises that it\u2019s a simple but important fix to address the issues around cost recovery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022999a638265c84108905b27b1470d0b85\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It could be done today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c2712e3056644909cce438815bc6cc2\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: It could be. The comment was made that it could be done today, but by sending it to the select committee, by ensuring that there\u2019s consultation on this necessary fix\u2014where, actually, a user-pays system will impact on somebody\u2014then, through the submission process, those views can be heard. We certainly don\u2019t want to ignore the views of people who will actually absorb the costs and the impact of the amendment of this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAgain, I didn\u2019t intend to take a huge call. It is a simple but necessary fix to the bill. It\u2019s important to ensure that submissions are heard at the select committee, that the select committee get the opportunity to ask the questions on exactly the range of costs that may attribute to the applicant, and investigate the impact of that and perhaps what the perceived issues might be around that, to ensure that we don\u2019t have to come back to the issue again. In fact, what we can be assured of\u2014and certainly Minister Parker is that kind of Minister\u2014is that a thorough consideration of all the issues will take place at the select committee. I\u2019m sure once it is heard in full and comes back to this House, we can be assured that it will achieve what it\u2019s intended to, that costs don\u2019t pass on to taxpayers when they don\u2019t need to, that those who will be absorbing the costs, namely the applicants, will be fully aware of the range of costs that will attribute to them, but also the select committee would have had the opportunity to investigate whether there are any unintended consequences of attributing costs to users.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00223857841230b74bc2bd7d7da637ea53a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223857841230b74bc2bd7d7da637ea53a6\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I intend to take only a brief call on this, the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d06d491fc9fa4063b55193f2bd03328a\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Why? Why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbf154d86c414801b91052a2c1c16264\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member opposite, Mr Shane Jones, questions why. That is because this corrects a minor drafting error in a bill last year. It was the largest bill that was passed in the course of the Key-English Government. It had made over 140 changes to both the Resource Management Act and to the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act 2012.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis bill does two things. In the course of that legislation, new Part 3A was added to the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) legislation. If you look at the Cabinet minute, it was clear that the intent of the Government was that Part 3A would not be subject to the powers that a Minister has to direct the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA). That was not carried through in the way in which the legislation was finally drafted. It certainly said a direction could not be provided for Part 3, but it did not specifically refer to Part 3A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe second issue in the bill is in respect of cost recovery for marine permits. The larger bill, as a consequence of improving the economics within the Environmental Protection Authority, aligned the board of inquiry process with the decision-making process of the EEZ legislation. It failed to provide for insurance that the EPA could recover the costs in that change. Again\u2014and I note, there were 241 Cabinet minutes from that\u2014if we refer back to the Cabinet minutes, they make it quite plain that the Government\u2019s intent was for cost recovery. So what this bill does is correct those two minor drafting errors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve listened to the Minister\u2019s introductory speech, and he has made criticisms of the previous Government. I would draw to the attention of members opposite that it was actually members on this side of the House\u2014National members\u2014who insisted that that bill be subject to a full select committee process, and it was actually members of the Labour Party that opposed the substantive Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) going through a select committee. I would suggest that any Minister that\u2019s brought a bill over 500 pages long through the process of the Parliament would not be surprised that sometimes there\u2019s a legislative error of this sort.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9fa69912b9047bcbe263a97ac1ba74e\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Unheard of!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228425eb0978e84cdc994517f7188104c1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Jones says \u201CUnheard of!\u201D; my response back would be, \u201COnly those that have done nothing have never made a mistake.\u201D Now, I would finally\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a08f046473248babc8095691a29365f\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Ask \u201CMatua Shane\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b272bdecc5e24bccbc65d7d7dc0d4566\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CMatua Shane\u201D might, in some time, reflect on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe last point I\u2019d make is that the Minister made a big deal of the fact that the longer that this lack of cost recovery exists there\u2019s a risk that someone may lodge an application for a marine permit with the Environmental Protection Authority and not have the capacity for cost recovery. My colleague Scott Simpson, who heard the submissions on the original bill, very wisely said that this bill was totally consistent with the original intent and sought the leave of the House to get the bill passed through all stages today and to correct that error. It is somewhat unusual for a Government member to block that occurring, and that really does raise a question. Actually, the Government seems more interested in using this bill for a narrow political purpose than actually acting in the Government\u2019s and New Zealand\u2019s interests of ensuring that this minor error is immediately corrected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe last point I\u2019d make is that I note that on the Table of the House is a 600-page SOP on another bill. If there is a lesson to learn for Parliament from this amending bill it is that where we do have SOPs, at the very least, send them to a select committee. And, even when you send them to a select committee, for very large substantive reforms there will be drafting errors, and what our job collectively as parliamentarians is is to ensure that they are minimised. So National is indicating it supports this bill. Our only question for the Government is why we would not want to get on, correct this error today, and ensure that there is no potential cost to the taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcbf89c0b17647a5b0c702af6fdf789a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcbf89c0b17647a5b0c702af6fdf789a\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora and thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It\u2019s my privilege to stand on behalf of New Zealand First and speak on the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to note my thanks to the Minister, the Hon David Parker, for his opening comments about fixing one of many, many, many mistakes in the original Act. This is an error in legislation\u2014somewhat shambolic legislation. And noting, too, the Hon Scott Simpson who mentioned that it was in fact a minor drafting error and does not need to be in a bill of its own right; but actually, we on this side of the House feel that it must. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the previous speaker for his training video.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ETo this bill in hand: it will amend the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act 2012 to ensure those that are applying for notifiable marine consents pay for the board of inquiry that considers their applications, rather than the taxpayer picking up those costs. So New Zealand First believes that this in fact is a very sensible piece of housekeeping legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ESo what will the bill do\u2014this small, technical bill? It will amend the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act 2012 and it will enable the Minister to recover from an applicant the actual and reasonable costs incurred in relation to a board of inquiry appointed under the Act\u2014all those reasonable costs that will be incurred in relation to that board of inquiry appointed under the Act to decide an application for marine consent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThis change will ensure that a process conferring a private benefit results in a private, rather than a public, cost. It\u2019s a very narrow scope\u2014this bill. It relates only to that cost recovery for marine consents under section 20. Now, what are those activities under section 20? They are the construction, placement, alteration, extension, removal, or demolition of a structure on or under the seabed. Maybe it\u2019s a submarine pipeline on or under the seabed, the abandonment of said submarine pipeline. It could in fact be the removal of that said submarine cable that\u2019s on or under the seabed; the removal of any non-living natural material from the seabed or subsoil; the disturbance of the seabed or the subsoil in a manner that\u2019s likely to have an adverse effect on the seabed or subsoil; also the deposit of anything or an organism in or on or under the seabed, and the destruction, damage, or disturbance of the seabed or subsoil in a manner that\u2019s likely to have an adverse effect on marine species or their habitat. So, yes, it is a very important amendment to this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to take a little pause for a moment and take our time back to those early days in the 1800s\u2014the era after the Napoleonic Wars, and when we had kauri forests. It was in hot demand for ships\u2019 spars. Now, as the Australian colonies grew, they also needed a lot of timber for their housing. So when the first Europeans came to New Zealand, to the northern parts of the North Island, Tai Tokerau, in fact\u2014the vast kauri forests and 1,200,000 hectares of this beautiful taonga. Now, today, barely 4,000 hectares of the original forest remain. The rest was felled for timber or cleared for farms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ELegislation like the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act is similarly important for our natural resources. Obviously, times have changed, and attitudes have changed towards the natural environment\u2014but not for some National Party members. They still hold, in fact, the view that the natural environment is a resource that must be handed over to industry at no cost\u2014take what you want; total pillage. Now, you may remember, in fact, how full of enthusiasm the National Party was to gut the Resource Management Act. In fact, that tragic coalition partner, the \u201CDancing Queen\u201D from Epsom, wanted to throw the whole thing out and indulge in a kind of colonial consumption of natural resources. It amazes me that this shell company is still existing today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EIn 2017, the National Government made a series of amendments to the Resource Management Act and the exclusive economic zone\u2014so much for the revolution. Instead, what we got was added complexity and costs being shifted on to the taxpayer. That\u2019s the crux of this matter. As we now know, the main feature of the Key Government was to transfer as much of the taxpayer-generated wealth as it could from ordinary New Zealanders up to the big end of town.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThe first amendment the Government wants to make to the Resource Management Act is to shift those costs back to where they properly belong, away from the taxpayer. So, similarly, taxpayers should not pick up the bill for marine consents. This is why New Zealand First absolutely supports the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill. It fits perfectly into our policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThis bill was introduced to ensure that those applying for these notifiable marine consents pay for them themselves rather than the taxpayer picking up the cost. This was a National Party mistake, due to the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act not having cost recovery provisions for boards of inquiry. It takes brains and diligence, though, to sort this stuff out, and we are doing just that right now\u2014not the short-term sloganeering mentality of the previous Government. That is why this Government is taking a painstaking approach to getting it right, and this bill is a prime example of how the previous Government didn\u2019t do the job properly. This Government is now spending time fixing it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill as being a very sensible piece of legislation. We are proud to support it, correcting a series of legislative mishaps and pointing towards more important work on the Resource Management Act, which will come shortly. I commend this bill to the House. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u0022240a8bf78cbd415fb4e6a23ea3d49900\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022240a8bf78cbd415fb4e6a23ea3d49900\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Seven months\u2014seven months we\u2019ve sat in the Environment Committee, reflecting on \u201CI wonder what this Government is going to prioritise in terms of the environment?\u201D Seven months we\u2019ve sat there. We\u2019ve had inquiries on plastic bags. We\u2019ve had fantastic should-be inquiries on plastics in the ocean, and we reflect every Wednesday \u201CI wonder what we\u2019re going to get when this Government finally fronts with their priority?\u201D Well, here we go. It is the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill. This is it. For those of you watching at home, this is it. One page\u2014one page only that simply changes a single section that enables the Crown to, essentially, get cost recovery from any party that\u2019s a party to marine resource consent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s it\u2014a single drafting error. These things occasionally happen. We had, as you\u2019ve heard the speakers on this side, an extraordinary piece of legislation that had 700 pages, 250 substantive clauses, and there was one line that was omitted. Here we have it: one page\u2014minor change full stop. We sit here on this side saying, \u201CYep, that has clearly been omitted.\u201D We didn\u2019t pick it up through the select committee, despite having the self-professed brain of the House, David Parker, pour over every single line. Somehow, it managed to get through the keeper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f62a6376084d423c855e56a1f079ac1e\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: You mean it slipped past him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282316449b50642b398a9d3241274a920\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: It must\u2019ve slipped past him, Mr Simpson. It did. But here we are suggesting that we spend a few minutes reflecting in unison on the importance of this process in terms of acknowledging it needs to be done and agreeing between us that let\u2019s get it done. We\u2019ve had this fantastic suggestion from Mr Simpson that we have this conversation today, none of us are in disagreement, everyone can read the clause, and it all makes sense. Let\u2019s pass it. Let\u2019s get on with it and move on to more substantive\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c76abf043f3e476eb4a68f024f7b2280\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224abfdb2557744438879ea2ac518b929b\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s do it, even. Let\u2019s move on to more substantive pieces of legislation, which, one assumes, now we\u2019re into month eight, isn\u2019t going to be the signature policy of the Labour - Greens - New Zealand First Government, but, hey, it may be. But, either way, let\u2019s support it here today, get it done, and actually show New Zealand that occasionally the Government can agree with the Opposition and be efficient in terms of the legislative process. I support this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00224e346c49ddd74f1b924172ff1b6491c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e346c49ddd74f1b924172ff1b6491c4\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Whilst I thoroughly enjoyed the contribution from Todd Muller, the man from Te Puna, I do just want to draw the House\u2019s attention to the comment made in respect of my senior colleague the Hon David Parker. A comment was made in that member\u2019s remarks to this House that he was the self-professed brains of this Government. I haven\u2019t heard that statement made by that member, and I felt that it was an inappropriate articulation of that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00220c50481e639b495aa5e739f24edcb32b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c50481e639b495aa5e739f24edcb32b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think that\u2019s an appropriate point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00224751ff7d05214f10a080097565c6e7ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224751ff7d05214f10a080097565c6e7ca\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe Madam Assistant Speaker. Thank you. I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Green Party on the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ENow, Mr Muller\u2019s comments previously\u2014of course, if the National Party was occupying the Government benches, they would be proceeding full tilt into changes that would make no sense to the Resource Management Act and to the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act, which serve to complicate the legislation, which override public participation rights, which shut out the public, and which made it easier for their developer mates to go ahead with subdivisions, without any opportunity for public participation. This Government does things differently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis has got to be corrected, because at the moment it would cost the public and taxpayers and cost the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA), if the bill doesn\u2019t get passed, for any notified applications that go to a board of inquiry under the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act. There will be change coming on the Resource Management Act, but it will be a lot more coherent and carefully thought-through than that complicated Resource Legislation Amendment Bill (RLAB), which the National Government introduced and which completely turned the whole process into a shambles. Has it demonstrated any benefits to the administration of resource management in New Zealand now? No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo this bill is necessary because of a major oversight by the last Government. The EPA has a small budget of some $30 million; $25 million of that comes through Vote Environment\u2014the balance is from applicants\u2019 fees. The EPA is organised to recover from applicants the fees for processing their applications, because, as Ms Marcroft noted, the benefits are to the applicant. But here, because the Government made the mistake under the RLAB legislation, it meant that any applications in the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) for things like seabed mining and for things like new drilling that went to a board of inquiry and were notified for public submissions\u2014it left the EPA bearing the costs of that process. So what this bill will do is it will ensure that those costs can be recovered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis consultation, done with industry participants and others, indicated that there was broad support for that. What it does too is correct the inconsistency which currently exists in the legislation that if it was a non-notified activity going through a marine consent process under the EEZ legislation, the cost could be recovered, but if it was going to a board of inquiry, it couldn\u2019t. It also corrects the inconsistency with the Resource Management Act where boards of inquiry, under that piece of legislation\u2014their costs can be recovered from the applicant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo given the way in which the past National Government starved the EPA of resources, given the fact that it only allocated a measly $4 million a year for the last three years for the EPA to undertake its functions in the exclusive economic zone\u2014the fourth-largest EEZ in the world\u2014the last National Government did not provide that as baseline funding. So this bill is critical to prevent taxpayers and the public being burdened with the cost of processing. So it\u2019s fixing mistakes of the last Government, and it\u2019s ensuring that those costs can be recovered if they\u2019re actual and reasonable. Of course, it\u2019s a factor of National Governments that they look to socialise the cost but privatise the benefits. So this bill is correcting that under the Resource Legislation Amendment Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe costs of not putting the bill through are significant, because the decision-making committees, which are appointed by the EPA\u2014they, in the oil and gas space, have generally cost between $450,000 and $950,000 per application. Under the Resource Management Act, the average board of inquiry costs in the region of $1.6 million. So those are significant costs for a small organisation like the Environmental Protection Authority, and those costs should rightly be borne by applicants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill will ensure that it only applies to applications that are made after the Act comes into force, so it is not retrospective. It is a good piece of legislation that corrects the mistakes of the last Government, which ensures that private applicants have to pay for the cost of their application rather than the public. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022938cb288458c46fb8dbc46ca77eac6ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022938cb288458c46fb8dbc46ca77eac6ad\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m very pleased to stand in support of this bill. Indeed, the Resource Legislation Amendment Bill, which went through the last Parliament, through the select committee process, as we understand, 700 clauses, 250 pages of legislation was an incredibly significant piece of legislation that is probably one of the most complex bills that came before the last Parliament; certainly, a very broad bill with very, very many submitters. So for a situation where there was an error in drafting to get through that committee, the Local Government and Environment Committee\u2014I guess, you know, in many regards, a committee made up of different parties\u2014it\u2019s important for us right now to rectify that, because, as the previous speaker, Eugenie Sage, said, the change is to ensure that the process that confers a private benefit or marine consent results in a private rather than a public cost. I think everybody across this House understands and supports that principle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo we are very pleased and happy to support this bill\u2014a very minor adjustment, as previous speakers have said. Perhaps a statutes amendment bill would have been the right vehicle that would take far less time in the parliamentary process to correct this change. So, with that, I\u2019m happy to support and commend this bill to the House. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u002222366994774b4556bdd975531a0e1992\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222366994774b4556bdd975531a0e1992\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Angie Warren-Clark. This is a split call, as I understand it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2f659e516794e7b9056b8fb6789e64b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2f659e516794e7b9056b8fb6789e64b\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It is my pleasure to stand and take a split call on this Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill. It\u2019s a long name, so I think people will hear, for the benefit of those at home, the EEZ bill as abbreviated. Now, the Act came into place in 2012 and was amended in 2017, and that\u2019s predominantly what everyone is talking about here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI need to commend the Minister for the Environment, David Parker, for his excellent and timely intervention into a law that had an error in it. Now, we have the Opposition saying that \u201COh, you know, it was a very big and complicated and complex bill.\u201D We have the Opposition saying that, and that this is a very minor thing that needs to be repaired. Well, some of us here believe that the hundreds and thousands of dollars that this may potentially cost us here is actually an important matter, and it needs to be addressed and it needs to be addressed quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EThe hundreds and thousands of dollars that this error has created and may potentially, going forward, create\u2014it\u2019s important that we address this matter. It\u2019s important because some of us across the House believe that hundreds and thousands of dollars is a lot of money. Now, the Opposition may not, but we do. So we do not apologise for bringing this matter directly, and here, and now, to get this matter addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve just thought, for the benefit of the listeners at home, of two things in regards to this. First of all, what is the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the sea? So we\u2019re talking about this. For the lay person, it\u2019s the 200-nautical-mile zone that we\u2019re talking about, that we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233c0514a1ad0428092bc3d8d3e5220b5\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that in kilometres?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216b77596b1814da88f22cca5420497c5\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Nautical miles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220028aa281b9c455ca80fb6e830f11f0b\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I said how many kilometres?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d2ffbfded2f47a2979247862ec29671\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s approximately 15 times the size of our country, and if you do want to know, sir, it is approximately 14,883,744 kilometres. So for those people who are interested at home, it\u2019s actually about 15 times our land mass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea787d85f20843ed95efc5c1ffcdc1bf\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Wikipedia\u2019s done well today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9cf4b31b9f44755935d77bc897f6af6\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Wikipedia is amazing. However, the important thing here is not everyone listening at home has a computer. So I think it\u2019s important that we\u2019re actually talking to an audience that needs to know these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ca87e21e8914ff5abfe5ba7e06f7aeb\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Arrogant Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e4610de0a9c42fe996a0d66968bfc5c\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely arrogant Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003ESo, moving right along. As I say, I support the Minister, moving forward, in this, and I\u2019d also like to thank the member Jenny Marcroft for explaining section 20 on the activity. I think she did a really good job of that, and it, basically, talks about why we would need these boards of inquiry. I\u2019m also proud to state that the Minister for the Environment has signalled, going forward, that this is just the first. The reason we\u2019re doing it now, the reason we\u2019re doing it this way, is that we actually need to get it moving to prevent large bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EThere is currently a live application. It\u2019s currently under way at the moment. That EEZ board of inquiry process is likely to cost quite a lot of money, and, as the Associate Minister for the Environment, Eugenie Sage, stated, that party across the floor only gave $4 million for that. So if we\u2019re looking at the many, many hundreds of thousands dollars, we actually need to fix this quickly, we need to fix it appropriately, and we need to address it now today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EFinally, I would just like to state that we\u2019re spending the country\u2019s money to get this fixed. We hope that we\u2019re not in this position again. We will continue with our legislative movement forward in terms of remediating any errors in the Resource Management Act amendments and this amendment. With that, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022daf74b96ec854cfdbd9807e210ae0202\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022daf74b96ec854cfdbd9807e210ae0202\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I\u2019m very pleased to take a call on this, the first reading of the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI listened very carefully to Mr Parker earlier. He was very concerned about the costs of this legislative process and what these costs were incurring and how terrible that was, and saying that we\u2019d made a mistake, and wasn\u2019t it terrible that all of these costs are being incurred. So if the Minister is so concerned about these costs that he spent quite a bit of his speech talking about these costs, why is he putting this bill through as stand-alone legislation? Why are we not seeing this as a statutes amendment bill? Why are we not seeing this as a truncated process\u2014as we earlier said it should be but were voted down? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI suspect that the answer to this is that the Minister isn\u2019t so concerned about the costs of the legislative process when he gets to have political point-scoring out of it. When it comes down to it, if it\u2019s going to cost money, he doesn\u2019t mind, as long as he gets to put the boot in. So his concerns about costs are absolute tosh. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EMr Parker is enjoying his time today up on his high horse over a very small technical drafting error that was overlooked in what was a massive piece of legislation. Mr Parker should perhaps be a bit more careful, because when a small drafting error occurs in some of his massive legislation that I presume is coming\u2014we haven\u2019t seen it yet; maybe it will come\u2014as it does happen from time to time, we will be all over that like a rat up a drainpipe, because we have been listening today to speech after speech of members trying to take up their full allocation of time, wasting this House\u2019s time and the public\u2019s money on a bill that should always have been put into a statutes amendment bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ECan I just say, look, this is a very small technical amendment. If someone wants to put in a marine consent requiring a board of inquiry process, accidentally, now the costs currently fall on the Crown. It was a mistake. It was a drafting error in the legislation. It was always the intention for the applicant to wear these costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EIf you want to apply right now for a marine consent to lay an underground cable or pipes under the seabed for private benefit, those costs do fall on the Crown. It was a mistake. It was a small drafting error that we are here to correct today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThis bill will align this board of inquiry process with the existing Environmental Protection Authority process, as well as with the Resource Management Act. It is a very sensible change. It needed to happen. Why we had to have a long process of speeches and select committee and more speeches is beyond me, because it is costing the taxpayer money, which Mr Parker said that he didn\u2019t want to do. So, in saying that, I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00224b64d35e16c74b96b2a14426cd5f38ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b64d35e16c74b96b2a14426cd5f38ca\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I think the Opposition needs to learn the difference between speed and haste. We want to do this, we want to get it done quickly, but we do not want to do it so hastily that yet another mistake is made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, let me just go back to what this bill is about. This bill is about fixing up a mistake. We all concede that it was a mistake. We all concede that something went wrong in this 700-clause, 250-page bill that the then Government brought to the House to reform the Resource Management Act (RMA). We all know that something went wrong and we all want to fix it. So exactly what are we trying to fix here? The reason why we want to fix it is because money is at stake, because it\u2019s actually costing us money and we do want to get the job done, but we want to do it properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo in order to do this properly\u2014and I\u2019d like to just point out that this in fact is part of our job. Our job, as parliamentarians, is to discuss the legislation, is to debate it in the House, is to take it through a select committee process. There is no need to truncate processes just for the sake of rushing stuff through the House. This House\u2019s time is well spent debating this bill. Refusing to speak on the bill, refusing to take the time to deal with it in select committee\u2014that is a waste of the democratic parliamentary process that we have built up over generations, and I urge the members of the Opposition to take this process seriously. It is our job to be here and to discuss this legislation, and I am proud to be doing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s have a think about exactly what is in this legislation. It does fix a mistake, and it fixes a mistake that means that we cannot recover the costs associated with a board of inquiry into section 20 permissions under the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act. So what is in this section 20 that matters so much? What\u2019s going on here? Well, it\u2019s when people apply to conduct an activity, a particular activity specified in section 20 of the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act 2012, within our exclusive economic zone, which extends about 200 nautical miles from our coast\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f01a5422c89438e9354533aceccfebb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Settle, members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229e90e1549bd4f3c992be67d37d52d6a\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or, for the benefit of the Opposition, about 370.4 kilometres, for those who needed to know it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut, more seriously, let\u2019s have a look at what\u2019s in section 20. So the sorts of activities that we want to make sure we inquire into properly to make sure that they are conducted well, using a board of inquiry, which incurs expenses, are listed in section 20 of the original Act. It\u2019s the construction, placement, alteration, extension, removal, or demolition of a structure on or under the seabed. We\u2019re talking about stuff that\u2019s going on, on the seabed. It\u2019s the construction, placement, alteration, extension, removal, or demolition of a submarine pipeline on or under the seabed. It\u2019s the abandonment of a submarine pipeline that is on or under the seabed. It\u2019s the placement, alteration, extension, or removal of a submarine cable on or from the seabed\u2014so the removal of non-living natural material from the seabed or subsoil. It\u2019s the disturbance of the seabed or subsoil in a manner that is likely to have an adverse effect on the seabed or subsoil. It\u2019s the deposit of any thing or organism in or on or under the seabed. It\u2019s the destruction, damage, or disturbance of the seabed or subsoil in a manner that is likely to have an adverse effect on marine species or their habitat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThis is important. This actually matters. We actually care about what happens on our seabed. We actually care about what happens in our exclusive economic zone. That\u2019s exactly why in order to do this we have a board of inquiry, but they cost. And the way that the previous Government left the legislation, that cost was not going to be sheeted home to the user. And, like us, they agreed that we need to make sure that whoever is using this, whoever is going to benefit from it, actually needs to pay for the costs. But the mistake that was left in the legislation means that right now it is not the user who is going to wear those costs; it is the taxpayers of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, they keep on saying, \u201CLet\u2019s rush it through. Let\u2019s get it done hastily. Let\u2019s make sure that we don\u2019t waste any more time and money.\u201D But already there are applications in place which now have to be funded by the taxpayer because of this mistake. So we are moving speedily but without haste to make sure that we get this right. That is exactly why we wanted it to go through a select committee process. It is exactly why we need to go through a process. It will be a truncated process, it will go quickly, but we will at least try to make sure we get the legislation right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EYou see, I suspect that the real reason that the Opposition, the former Government, are just a little bit uptight about this is because it\u2019s actually an object lesson in MMP Government. You see, we know that the former Government had a lot of trouble getting their RMA reforms through. We know they had to negotiate hard. We know that some of their support partners rejected many aspects of the RMA bill. We know that the particular reforms that have come through, their reforms of the RMA, have been left with perverse incentives sitting in there. That is because they couldn\u2019t easily get a majority for it in the House. On this side of the House we have three parties who are working together to make sure we get it right\u2014three parties holding the majority of votes between them, working to make sure that we will actually fix up this mess that has been left to us by the former Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI just want to sort of address some of the issues that the members of the former Government raised\u2014that members did\u2014in particular, this one. It was a line given to us by Mr Scott Simpson, the Hon Scott Simpson, that slogans are harder than Government. Well, I agree: slogans are harder than Government. We know that that bill was complicated. We know that it became harder than that. Sure, we know that they tried really hard to get it right, but the fact is they didn\u2019t, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re having to fix it up now and having to take the process through the full stages to make sure that we get it right. I mean, they\u2019ve been telling us that it\u2019s a minor technical matter, but we already know that those boards of inquiry cost somewhere between $450,000 and $900,000 to pursue. That\u2019s a lot of money to be worn by the taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, look, the annual budget for this Government is usually in the order of $80 billion or so, and you might think that somewhere between $450,000 and $900,000 doesn\u2019t matter so much in the context of a budget of $80 billion. But, really, a million here, a million there\u2014soon you\u2019re talking about real money. We actually do need to watch this and to make sure that it gets sheeted home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve been told that in fact we\u2019re only having this process, that we\u2019re only debating it in the House for a narrow political purpose. I suggest to the members of the Opposition that saving taxpayers\u2019 money is never a narrow political purpose. It\u2019s actually part of our job in this House. They\u2019ve cried and cried and cried and are saying, \u201CWe must be efficient; we must get this through properly.\u201D I tell you, there is no efficiency in having to go back to fix mistakes. There is no efficiency in having to bring this to the House again. But we will not confuse efficiency with effectiveness. We will get this bill right. We will take it through a proper select committee process to make sure that we really do understand what is going on. We really will give people who will be affected by this bill the opportunity to come and talk to us, to explain their concerns, and to talk about how they will adjust to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWe will make sure we get it right and we will make sure that we save taxpayers\u2019 money, not by wasting our democracy, not by wasting our hard-fought-for democratic processes, not by wasting the skills and expertise that we have built up through generations in how to develop good legislation, but by processing this speedily but without haste. Madam Assistant Speaker, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022d15e9dc6f1a644b9b6ad18113af0d8b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d15e9dc6f1a644b9b6ad18113af0d8b8\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I will say to the member Deborah Russell, who has just taken her seat, that this is a very small bill\u2014the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill\u2014but she managed to exsanguinate every possible Government argument to support this bill, and I thought that was not a bad effort seeing as it was a pretty poor argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EOne of the main purposes of an Opposition, particularly when it comes to select committees, is to hold the Government to account and to go over the legislation with a fine-tooth comb to make sure\u2014even though the Opposition may not agree with the legislation that it\u2019s looking over in select committee, it needs to make sure it\u2019s fit for purpose. That means making sure there are no mistakes, no unintended consequences in those bills, and that means calling people in to submit on it and hearing their submissions, ensuring that the Parliamentary Counsel Office has got the drafting right, going through the revision-tracked versions, etc., etc.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ENow, it is a 700-clause bill, 250 pages\u2014as we\u2019ve heard ad nauseam; I\u2019m not going to go on too much about that. But we had that select committee process, and two of the loudest wailers in this whole process this afternoon are David Parker and Eugenie Sage, both of whom were on that select committee. So if it\u2019s such an obvious and poor mistake and it should have been found, why didn\u2019t they find it? It\u2019s really an admission of their own guilt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EAnother point was made earlier about what this bill is about, and the Resource Management Act has been referred to several times in here and how they\u2019re going to amend it. It makes one very suspicious. We saw a motion before to debate, at the end of this reading, and to go through all the other processes without debate, and that was voted down. Why would they want to take this on? Perhaps this is a Trojan Horse for a Supplementary Order Paper that we are unaware of. And this is the so-called transparent Government, which is really a joke when we\u2019ve seen so many examples of it being anything but.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to finish with a quote from Craig D Lounsbrough which is on transparency, or the lack thereof: \u201CTo be found is to be exposed.\u201D, so it\u2019s little wonder that the Government is so lost. I support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u00226114c19d7a7c42e4b268b60a68e97d37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226114c19d7a7c42e4b268b60a68e97d37\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s an absolute privilege to talk on the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve already heard, this bill is going to be amending the principal Act to make sure that those applying for notifiable marine consents have to pay the cost of the board of inquiry that\u2019s considering their applications, because at the moment the bill for that is being picked up by the taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EWhat I want to do is just talk a little bit about what the original Act was trying to do, and then why we need to fix it. If you go back to the wording in section 10 of what the original Act was trying to do, it was \u201Cto promote the sustainable management \u2026 of the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf; and \u2026 protect the [marine] environment from pollution.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo what this actual Act is about is the equivalent of the Resource Management Act (RMA) on land, and what it\u2019s making sure is that if we do any activities in the marine environment, we are considering the protections of that natural environment. It\u2019s pretty much very similar to the RMA in that it breaks up things into things that are permitted, discretionary, or prohibited. What we\u2019re talking about today is about getting marine consents\u2014very similar to resource consents under the RMA\u2014for discretionary activities. So a lot of these consents have to be heard by a board of inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EWhat are we talking about with these consents? Well\u2014as Deborah Russell read out\u2014in terms of the kinds of things you need to apply for, it\u2019s things like seabed mining, putting in place pipelines, cables, construction of any kind of structure on the seabed, and anything that will disturb the seabed in a manner that\u2019s likely to adversely affect the subsoil marine species and habitat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EI think the thing is, for me down South, we rely on our marine environment for a lot of our economic activity. So if you think about the Bluff Oyster and Food Festival and the contribution that makes to our local community, and the fact that we rely on those oyster beds to be in pristine condition\u2014thinking about our tourism down in the Catlins, we\u2019ve got a lot of wildlife that brings in a lot of visitors every year: the penguins, the sea lions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EI think the thing is if you think about things like pipelines that are laid on the sea-floor, they are seldom likely to contain substances that are conducive to a positive marine environment. So if we\u2019re tinkering around with them, removing them, amending them, we need to make sure that we\u2019re doing it properly. And to do that properly, we actually need to have proper consents in place to make sure we\u2019re doing it in a safe way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo what we are actually trying to do with this bill, though, is we\u2019re trying to correct that legislative error that everybody\u2019s been talking about, to make sure that the reasonable costs of those boards of inquiry get recovered from the applicants rather than having to be met by the Ministry for the Environment (MFE) and collected by the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA). What we\u2019ve got at the moment is people that are benefiting or are likely to benefit privately from their applications and then the taxpayers picking up the cost, when in reality the cost of those applications\u2014for the cost of the hearings, the technical advice, all those kinds of things\u2014needs to be borne by those who are going to get the economic gain from those activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, what we\u2019re doing at the moment\u2014and this is why we need some haste\u2014is that the taxpayer is picking up all of the bill. What we\u2019re asking the Ministry for the Environment to do is to, in effect, write a blank cheque. The problem we\u2019ve got at the moment then is that people are coming in for resource consents, for consents under the current Act, and we know that many of those consents, because they are very technical and of a really important nature, are likely to cost half a million, a million, two million dollars. So the problem we\u2019ve got is at the moment the MFE\u2019s going to have to pick up that tab every time somebody makes an application.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EThe other issue we\u2019ve got is that we\u2019re not going to be putting this in place retrospectively. And so what that means is until we change the legislation anybody that has got a consent currently in process won\u2019t be having to foot the bill. And you know, for me in the health area, we\u2019re already in an environment where budgets are constrained, because what we\u2019ve had is nine long years of underinvestment across our health and social services, and yet what we\u2019ve got here at the moment is a situation where one of our ministries is having to write blank cheques for several million dollars, potentially, at a time, and so we need to correct this as quickly as we possibly can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s actually quite a technical small amendment and it\u2019s just got two or three main points. What it basically allows is the Minister to recover from an applicant the actual and reasonable costs in relation to a board of inquiry. It also allows for applicants to actually write in to the Minister and ask for an estimate of what those costs are likely to be, because if you are going to be putting in place something that\u2019s going to have a huge financial outlay in an investment, you need to know up front what that\u2019s likely to cost and factor that into your budgets. The other addition, basically, puts in that the Crown will be recovering those by the EPA on behalf of the Crown. So it\u2019s very, very important that we are able to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019re actually doing with this bill is making sure that this current Act is very closely aligned to the way the Resource Management Act does the same kind of consenting process on land and allows, under that legislation with the RMA, these costs to be recovered in a very, very similar way. But as I was saying, these amendments won\u2019t come into force until the bill\u2019s been enacted, and so what that means is there is some urgency in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo I think, in summary, what we\u2019re doing\u2014the underlying Act\u2014is aiming to protect our marine environment, and that is very crucially important for our tourism, for our fisheries. We can\u2019t be having activities happening offshore where we get things like a pipeline that hasn\u2019t been laid properly and we get ruptures that come in and affect our marine environment, our beach environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EIt has crucial economic impacts, and so what we\u2019re allowing is for the EPA to recover the costs of these consents from those who are going to be getting private gain from those applications. What we\u2019re talking about here is, you know, $1 million to $3 million at a time, so it\u2019s potentially a significant financial risk. So we need to do this quickly. We just need to get on and do it with due process, but, as with any other application, we need to make sure that everything\u2019s in place and correct. I therefore commit this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Environment Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00225695ae7dfa314451ad67ecd069095e89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225695ae7dfa314451ad67ecd069095e89\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 11 June 2018 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Standing Orders require there to be a debate in the House where there is a truncation of the normal length of a select committee hearing. There are good reasons for that. We in New Zealand have a unicameral parliamentary system, so we don\u2019t have the effective ability of an Upper House to have a look at legislation that\u2019s passed by the House of Representatives. There\u2019s quite a lot of power that rests in the New Zealand system\u2014effectively, in the executive. Therefore, if the executive, like me, come down and say, \u201CLook, we think there should be a shortened select committee process.\u201D, then it\u2019s good that the House gets the opportunity to consider whether truncating the normal processes, given the absence of other checks and balances in the system\u2014whether that shortened period of referral to select committee is justified. There\u2019s no general proposition that you should never shorten select committee periods, and, indeed, the rules of the House even allow things to be done under urgency without any reference to select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe judgment of the Government in respect of this issue is that we need to fix it within a relatively prompt period of time. There has been some limited consultation with industry and affected parties in advance of putting this legislation into the House. If I could summarise that, the result of that consultation was that they agreed that this was a mistake and that the underlying policy objective of reinstating a cost recovery right on the part of the Crown for the reasonable costs that are incurred by the Crown in dealing with an application in the exclusive economic zone\u2014that it ought to be fixed\u2014when the Government had decided that this isn\u2019t an appropriate case for retrospectivity. So the people who currently have an application\u2014there\u2019s only one current application and that is, effectively, getting an exemption from cost recovery at the moment. We believe that there should not be retrospective effect in respect of that application, but we are concerned to bring this into effect within a reasonable period of time so that taxpayers aren\u2019t meeting the cost of additional boards of inquiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s obviously possible for someone to bring an application before this comes into effect, and so there is some additional risk to the Crown in that regard. We think the appropriate balance is by seeking this to be reported back to the House by 11 June 2018 so that this loophole can be closed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill is a simple one. It has about seven clauses, one of which is an amendment to the schedule in respect of transitional provisions. The main provision is set out in the proposed new section 52A in the underlying legislation, inserted by clause 5 of the bill. It\u2019s readily understood. It will be readily understood by submitters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe relevant select committee, as the Opposition has pointed out, actually hasn\u2019t got a lot of existing business on its agenda, and so it\u2019s well placed to put all of its attention\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8378d48d6e44a7e8ac90e6db491e410\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a filler. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee3f586673ef41e2bd4213a980db4479\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014into this. \u201CIt\u2019s a filler.\u201D, said the Hon Scott Simpson. It\u2019s actually not. It\u2019s fixing a mistake of the prior Government. I won\u2019t go through that again. I would suggest to the House that it is appropriate that we have a shortened period of select committee consideration, to enable this to be reported back by 11 June 2018. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f90e01cec0b744afbe2b17f1655d9108\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f90e01cec0b744afbe2b17f1655d9108\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E The Opposition finds itself in an interesting position in regard to this motion from the Minister for the Environment. The Minister has indicated that this is a small, technical, administrative correction to a legislative mistake\u2014an error, an omission, made in the principal Act last year. We\u2019ve heard debate during the course of the first reading that the substantive bill that was being considered last year was a big bill\u2014complicated, and with many moving parts\u2014but we\u2019ve also heard from Government Ministers and members on that side about the need for urgency in resolving this matter, if for no other reason than to protect the long-suffering taxpayer from the potential cost of a board of inquiry if a consent application was to be received before this legislation could be amended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ENow, it appears that there is one such consent application pending and that, very shortly, the process by which a board of inquiry is to be established and set up will need to commence, and at that point, costs start clocking up. At the moment, unless this legislation is amended, and amended quickly, those costs will be sheeted home to the taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWe on this side agreed, as did the whole House\u2014there was unanimity about the first reading decision\u2014and at the end of my contribution in the first reading, I sought leave to have this bill, at the conclusion of the first reading, proceed forthwith through all remaining stages\u2014without debate and one vote, forthwith. Now, bizarrely and strangely, that matter was objected to\u2014as is, of course, allowed for\u2014but when we heard contributions from a variety of Government members about the need for speed and haste in terms of sorting this out, we find that their objection to sorting it out right now, here, today, without further cost to taxpayers and without sending it to the long, albeit truncated, process of select committee that is, according to the Minister\u2014he\u2019s suggesting that it should be reported back in a shorter than normal period, by 11 June this year. We find ourselves on this side wondering why the Government wants to have it both ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ENow we had two Ministers contribute to the first reading debate, both of whom served on the select committee, and they didn\u2019t pick this error up at the time. We know that the error occurred unintentionally, because the Cabinet minute makes it very clear that the original intention of the Cabinet minute and the Cabinet proposal was to allow for charging for boards of inquiry by the applicant who was seeking consents under the exclusive economic zone legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s nothing here that any party in the Parliament disagrees with. It\u2019s a very simple piece of legislation. There isn\u2019t any contentious element to it. It is a remedial attempt to just correct\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ce21c8287004e1582451669d523149d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! You\u2019re speaking to the substance of the bill. You need to be speaking to the substance of the motion at hand. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226056d89096e64b63bf17597f56bbf079\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: OK, thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. Well, the substance of the motion is that the Minister wants a truncated select committee process, and the Opposition is suggesting to the House to let\u2019s do it now. Why waste further time of the House, of the Parliament, and of the taxpayer on something on which there is unanimous agreement, when, in fact, we could resolve this matter right here, right now, today, in a way that would achieve legislative certainty and that would achieve an outcome that is agreed across the House by all members?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThis needs to be done, it needs to be done quickly, and it needs to be done efficiently. It\u2019s not contentious. It isn\u2019t a matter that is going to require debate or scrutiny or intention. This is a matter that has actually already been considered by a select committee in the last Parliament. The good people at Parliamentary Counsel Office made a drafting error, and it seems now, to me on this side, that actually we\u2019re wasting the time of Parliament by even sending it to a select committee when, with a simple agreement of members of the House, we could find ourselves resolving this matter this afternoon, here this very day, in a way that would provide absolute certainty for the taxpayer and for any applicant who\u2019s seeking an exclusive economic zone consent under the legislation, and in a way that was absolutely intended by Cabinet during the last Parliament. It was just merely a drafting error on behalf of the hard-working and professional folk who are our parliamentary counsel officers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo, on this side of the House, we would like to hear from Government members as to why they feel it necessary to send this bill, upon which there is unanimity across the House, to a select committee. We heard at first reading a frankly embarrassing speech from the chair of the Environment Committee, who clearly wasn\u2019t able to divert herself from her pre-prepared speech notes to juggle nimbly her way to the situation where, on this side of the House, we\u2019re prepared to do the job today. Get it done. Do it now. Do the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m keen to hear from Government members as to why they want to actually delay this process. Yes, the select committee doesn\u2019t have much work on its agenda at the moment. This does seem to be a strange piece of legislation to be the first Government legislation to go before the committee. This is not a piece of legislation or a time frame that one would have thought was the most demanding environmental matter on the Government\u2019s agenda. Yet the Minister has come to the House and he\u2019s said, \u201CLook, we want to have a truncated select committee process. We want the committee to do its business, which should take very little time\u2014in fact, probably no time at all\u2014and report back by 11 June this year.\u201D Now, what we\u2019re saying is, well, why wait until 11 June when we\u2019re ready, willing, and able, as a Parliament, to legislate today to resolve this matter once and for all, to give this matter finality, and to make it certain for everybody involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe one application that is before the Environmental Protection Authority will require attention sooner rather than later. On this side of the House, we\u2019d like to help the Government. We\u2019d like to help them work their way through this adjustment to Government and find that they can, with the cooperation of the Opposition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cc7267f5ba741daa9a4e74f8dfd9cbc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! We are getting a bit repetitious. Do you have any new material to add to this debate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d7960c3378049f8b17821719a53b2cf\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think that there may be other members on this side who want to participate in this debate, Madam Assistant Speaker. Certainly we are keen to hear from Government members as to why they think it necessary to have a truncated select committee process at all. I\u2019m sure that there will be a number of them, including the Hon Ron Mark, who will want to make a contribution to this debate on why this select committee should be taking through to 11 June to do its work when we could solve it today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022402dd0aeb1f442a5b165cdac06068b1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022402dd0aeb1f442a5b165cdac06068b1c\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E The previous speaker, Scott Simpson, obviously hasn\u2019t been listening. The Minister for the Environment and also the chair of the Environment Committee, Deborah Russell, set out very clearly the benefits of it going to a select committee. Unlike the Opposition, this Government believes in democracy. It believes in select committees. It believes in the opportunity for the public to make submissions. It believes in the process of select committees being able to improve legislation, having heard public submissions and considered them. That is why it is going to select committee. That is why there is a truncated process\u2014because it is a small bill, it doesn\u2019t need a long select committee process. But just ramming it through the House, as Mr Simpson is proposing, suggests that there is nothing to be gained from public submissions. Generally, bills are improved by having the public comment and the select committee listen and consider those comments. That is why we believe in democracy rather than, as National is suggesting\u2014by going on and on in the House. What Mr Simpson also failed to realise is in relation to the current application by Tamarind, because this Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f96c2a2823b54e6d9b75050a9435fba2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! We must stick to the substance of the motion\u2014[Interruption] I just need to remind the member that this is not about the select committee process; that is agreed. It is about the report-back date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228633c54aff0a47d586da519d29d91aff\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, Madam Assistant Speaker. But the report-back date has been truncated in order to allow for some consideration, but not for the bill to take unnecessary time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00221b3720c5bd72452abfedc0c71e6df0d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b3720c5bd72452abfedc0c71e6df0d1\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I am pleased to take a call in this debate on the shortened report back that the Minister for the Environment, Hon David Parker, has proposed. For those who are listening and may not have seen one of these debates before, when the suggestion of a truncated report back is being proposed, it\u2019s a month. The normal report back for any piece of legislation is six months. So to have a report back in three days over a month is, quite frankly, appalling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019m finding myself in a bit of a contradiction in terms of when the Government wants the public to have scrutiny and when it doesn\u2019t. So in terms of one of the other points that Hon David Parker made, I felt it was worth explaining, not just to the House but to those who might be watching over the internet or listening on their radio or watching this debate live on TV. Because we do have a unicameral system, it means that our Parliament and the scrutiny of the executive and decisions that are made by the Government is more precious\u2014because there isn\u2019t an Upper House. There is no other scrutiny. So when a piece of legislation like the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill is put before this Parliament, then the only opportunity for scrutiny is by the select committee\u2014and not just the select committee; the key opportunity is for members of the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe Minister\u2019s made a number of comments about the fact that it\u2019s a simple piece of legislation, but, actually, from a public scrutiny and accountability consideration, whether it\u2019s simple or complex is irrelevant. It is about scrutiny. It\u2019s about public accountability. It\u2019s about transparency. So when we have a shortened report back with little over a month, and a Budget in the middle of it, I might add\u2014the ability for submitters to consider the implications\u2014particularly when members opposite have said that they want to make sure that there are no mistakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EMembers on this side have talked about the need of the parliamentary process of the select committee to go through the legislation with a fine-tooth comb to make sure there are no mistakes and no unintended consequences. That is the role\u2014that is a precious role\u2014that our Parliament holds dear in terms of the scrutiny of legislation. I would be deeply concerned if this is a continual habit, to have shortened report-backs for pieces of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe other side say, \u201COh, it\u2019s not significant.\u201D I would\u2019ve thought the Greens would have thought it was incredibly significant for those who are requesting permits in this piece of legislation\u2014the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill. I would have thought they thought it was critical\u2014the ability for the public to have a say, for the public to hear from the parliamentary select committee who will look after this piece of legislation, and for them to advertise that this bill is open for public consultation; the commitment of this Parliament to get legislation right. Particularly in this case, given that there has been an error, which is why this legislation is before us, I\u2019m somewhat puzzled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe Minister opposite didn\u2019t outline and did not explain why only a month is being given, in terms of this report back. That is a crying shame, in terms of scrutiny. If it is, as the members opposite say, that it is simple\u2014so I\u2019m going to argue the other side of this one to see if they are listening. If it is as simple and straightforward as they would have the House believe, why don\u2019t they take my colleague Hon Scott Simpson\u2019s proposition? Why didn\u2019t they put it through all stages today, if it was so straightforward and so urgent? So the Government can\u2019t argue both ways on this extension\u2014sorry, on this report back that\u2019s been shortened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5c43f6913664c32a18e84fa9960a260\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Truncation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f15a1438ae884641b2da7184b22c9f24\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s truncated to just over a month, when the normal period is six months. So it puts a huge burden on the public who might want to submit on this legislation\u2014a huge burden. Let\u2019s say, for example\u2014I\u2019ll walk the House through it. If the report back is 11 June, then the public submissions, if they\u2019re lucky, might get a week. They might get a week to consider what that side of the House has already said is a significant and important piece of legislation, and our exclusive economic zone is a critical part of New Zealand\u2019s environment\u2014so less than a week for submitters to submit on a piece of legislation that every member of this House wants to ensure is accurate and is correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m deeply puzzled as to why we have a Government that insists, and persists, on shortened report-backs for select committees. It\u2019s a trend that we\u2019ve seen in a number of different pieces of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226326fd0c2633476899d5e2dac4994c7b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022100cab7ea8a44cdcbb56116427e39303\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a trend that is damaging New Zealand\u2019s democracy. That side of the House might think that it\u2019s boring, but the members of the New Zealand public who hold this democracy dear to them want to know that this is a Government that is committed to transparency, to accountability, and to the ability for scrutiny of legislation that\u2019s put before this House. Unfortunately, I\u2019m not sure that the Ardern-Peters Government can give that commitment to the New Zealand public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThis is important. When we talk about a truncated select committee process\u2014so, giving members of the public potentially less than a week for them to provide a submission\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbd6d633c3e644458d3e7d925d7f35ce\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Five minutes ago you wanted to get on with it today. Now you\u2019re complaining it\u2019s truncated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227057bf78faed41b3877c804a7c978b75\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Members opposite can change their minds. I\u2019m sure my colleague would be happy to put the motion again, if you\u2019re in such a rush. But you can\u2019t have it both ways. You can\u2019t have a shortened report back and truncate it to just over one month, which is absolutely outrageous in terms of the public\u2019s ability to interact with our Parliament, to interact with the legislation. It\u2019s sort of smacking of a Government who knows best, and I would really hate to see that the new Government, only six months in, has a bit of a pattern of not allowing New Zealanders to participate in the legislative process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI\u2019m happy to suggest to the House that my colleague put the motion again, if that side of the House is indicating it, which they are. They are indicating very strongly that that they are ready to pass this legislation through all stages. It would be good, the Hon Scott Simpson, to put your motion again. They\u2019ve obviously had a change of heart, which is interesting to see. So, for those in the whips\u2019 chairs, text the Minister and make sure that he\u2019s happy to change his perspective on the report back, which he\u2019s currently truncated to 11 June. Just make sure he\u2019s now ready to come on board with the motion that the Hon Scott Simpson has put on the floor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263e3db4428c4480caa2e6cc3cd2d14ac\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Great motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228352174f95e1425db8340e9b670d14c3\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a great motion, to get this piece of business dealt with. That is, of course, unless the Government wants it fast back to the House so that you\u2019ve got more legislation to debate and that\u2019s the real reason behind a truncated select committee process. This side of the House is still failing to understand why, on the one hand, you say you need the time and, on the other hand, that side of the House is saying, let\u2019s get on with it. \u201CLet\u2019s get on with it\u201D\u2014that\u2019s the invitation from the Ardern-Peters Government for this particular piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIf this is indeed something else, and it\u2019s not about the importance of the legislation, and it\u2019s about the need for the Environment Committee to have a piece of work\u2014if that\u2019s the real agenda behind a truncated report back, well that\u2019s sad; that\u2019s really sad. But that is an option. It is one of the reasons that the Minister may have wanted to have a truncated report back to 11 June.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThere are a few members of the select committee opposite that are sort of looking down a bit now. Maybe that is the real business. They\u2019re looking for things to do. They\u2019re a bit bored. Being a backbench MP is not that much fun unless you\u2019ve got crunchy select committee work to do. Well, in terms of scrutiny of legislation, that\u2019s the critical part, that\u2019s the critical role, for the Government backbench MPs. So you have to examine the legislation, make sure your Ministers haven\u2019t made mistakes, give good scrutiny to every single piece of legislation, and not be willing to tolerate shortened report-backs such as this one, which is just over a month, which is outrageous, and New Zealanders will be disappointed in the Government for doing this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022e08ebd3c30b641c4a4c4ea509864db34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e08ebd3c30b641c4a4c4ea509864db34\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. Look, I\u2019m very pleased to speak to, I suppose, examining the whole question of why we are looking to truncate this process around the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThere are a number of things that I think need to be looked at. The fundamental one\u2014if this House is going to do something, then we have to do it properly. So we\u2019ve heard from the Government that this is a simple piece of legislation. I don\u2019t intend to get into the specifics of it, except to say it is very, very simple. It provides the House really, or the Government in particular, with two options: either we push it through the House very quickly because everyone agrees with it, or we take it to a full-length approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard in some of the discussions, if not the banter across the House: first and foremost, the Government said it\u2019s simple; it\u2019s very, very simple. Well, the offer is here and remains, from the Opposition, that we are more than happy to sit down, if you will, right now and move through all the processes. In fact, the irony is that this House has probably spent more time debating the undemocratic move to truncate this process than it would have taken to move this bill through all its stages and have it done and dusted, and to allow the Government to move on to other pieces of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe other side\u2014we\u2019ve heard it from the Greens, from one of the Ministers, that really the reason they want to have this go to a select committee, albeit for only a couple of weeks, is that they want a full democratic process. It\u2019s always said, with the great intentions of the Greens, in that rather serious tone. Well, if that\u2019s true, I come back to my first adage: if you\u2019re going to do it, then do it properly. So I suggest to the Green Party members and to the Ministers of the Crown that if that\u2019s truthful and they really want the New Zealand public to have their say on this vitally important piece of legislation, well then allow the committee to have a full amount of time to have that discussion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo I suppose for me, and it\u2019s probably my philosophical training, I don\u2019t like contradictions. And all that we\u2019re getting, unfortunately, from the Government is an array of contradictions here. Unfortunately, these contradictions are habitual. It\u2019s only been a few months ago that we had the Government truncate and force through another piece of legislation. I don\u2019t intend to get into the substance of it, but it\u2019s illustrating a problem\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecf26412045e40fc90d165bbe09c616a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Arrogant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7c7704d18b24479852e1b4822b7c9c6\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014an arrogant Government, as one of my colleagues\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec0d5b916f864d5f91af0fd6a3fe8ded\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: An arrogance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206b956d844ce42559f0aeb37db1f18de\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014as two of my colleagues have now said. Does anyone want a third? No. It was the overseas investment law and now Act, pushed through at speed\u2014at speed, unnecessarily. It is, for me and for this side of the House, a growing concern of why the Government is continuing to put these shortened, truncated processes in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI had questions myself when the overseas investment one was done. I have further questions now\u2014probably even more so with this one. The overseas investment one was actually quite a technical, rather deep policy issue: why did we not allow people to have their say? On this particular one, around the economic zone, it\u2019s been a fault which has been identified. In many ways you could argue that we could have actually dealt with this even through a statutes amendment process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4ed350b13d0417ebc58576095dea4f1\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: That should have been where it went.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d528c8537bd040ddaadaab588d3edb66\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: It could have been an option. In fact, we\u2019ve only just had that coming through recently. But here we are, truncating the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIf it is, ultimately, incredibly simple, easy, and, I suspect, with agreement\u2014with everyone in the House in fact disappointed that the motion by the Hon Scott Simpson has been defeated. But if it is completely, utterly simple, then let\u2019s get that piece of work done now. If it is something which requires the New Zealand public to have their in-depth say on, well then why not allow a full select committee process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons I\u2019m having I suppose a growing alarm in my head is: what\u2019s the agenda? I know it\u2019s a hypothetical\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e713e25752d0469683b9356bb5bbf174\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s hidden and secret.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022556b249224e2450fa9a2eeafe5b15f47\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a hidden and secret agenda, potentially. As the Speaker will know, and certainly those members of the House will know, once you go through a select committee process, there is the opportunity to add SOPs\u2014what they call Supplementary Order Papers. If this House was to move through the process immediately\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224316b4208654aceb9933008cb293abd\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not a speech by a philosopher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaf2fbbcaa97417bb90ca18762ef3a9f\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: No, I could actually switch to Greek, if you like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022266b7da4b83947e6b3f8f0c8678b7722\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Try Greek. It\u2019s all Greek to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3502cf905934eb3adee4108add1f702\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: That would be more double Dutch to that side. What we\u2019re dealing with here is a truncated, quick process through the House. If we were to just go through all stages, in effect there\u2019s no chance to put SOPs\u2014we would only deal with the substance of the bill. I have to wonder whether or not the Government is planning, in some way, to add SOPs into the process over the next couple of weeks which may actually expand what this supposed amendment bill is meant to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThen we end up in a whole new, much higher level contradiction. The first contradiction is that, again, if it\u2019s simple, why are we not dealing with it now; or, if it\u2019s complicated, why not give it a full process? But the worse contradiction is if an SOP is tabled by the Government around this bill, it will be done after\u2014after\u2014the public\u2019s had its say. It\u2019s a way of avoiding dealing with the public. So this is just filled with contradictions. It is, ultimately, I think\u2014for the benefit of Mr Little\u2014a pyrrhic decision. It\u2019s a pyrrhic decision. It\u2019s one that has no real value\u2014it looks good, but has no real value.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m going to wind up\u2014truncate, if you will\u2014this speech, which is symbolic of what this House should be doing today: to rip through the process and to have supported the Hon Scott Simpson\u2019s motion that we just pass it through all stages. I have but one piece of advice to the Government, if I would, to end with. It\u2019s something that they will be familiar with. I mean, it\u2019s something, I suppose\u2014a fairly easy concept, and something which the Government has supported before. So in relation to this bill, the third item on the Order Paper, this relatively simple bill: let\u2019s do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00220f7a08e7b99a41ed88d441a96f42ee2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f7a08e7b99a41ed88d441a96f42ee2c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next member, if there are any new arguments and debating points, now would be the time to bring them out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022637d5d8e05ce4ffc9bed4da58254e596\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022637d5d8e05ce4ffc9bed4da58254e596\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. Well, it is a pleasure to actually have a say on this. I think truncating a select committee process is a serious matter, actually, and it is quite a confused argument we\u2019re getting from the Government: that this is a serious bill and it needs to go through all the processes, but then saying, on the other hand, that it\u2019s such a short bill that it doesn\u2019t require the full select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWe often deal with bills in this Parliament that are\u2014in the case of the original Act that it seeks to amend\u2014700 clauses, 250 pages. There are far bigger ones than that, and quite small bills. Often, members\u2019 bills can be even half the size of this one, and that\u2019s quite a feat, but quite small. Yet the select committee stages are all the same length. You can seek an extension, which is a very wise part of the way Parliament works, so that if there are more submissions coming in or its too complex to deal with\u2014and I think a good example of that would be the euthanasia legislation, the End of Life Choice Bill, which is before the Justice Committee. That sort of bill can and will seek extensions because of the time taken to collate and organise those submissions, then to hear them\u2014those that wish to be heard. On this piece of legislation, that process is going to be truncated so much that the people that could and, perhaps, should submit on this won\u2019t have the opportunity to do so. I think that is the very case in point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to go back to my colleague who just took his seat, Simon O\u2019Connor, and I think he made some very good points. What is behind this? It really does make one suspicious when they speak with different tongues, as it were\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4af6c0ed9504bc696ea708c347ff313\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Forked tongues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4c6733e170d4eada3e227e336fdf518\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Forked tongues\u2014indeed. To have them saying that, I suspect it is absolutely the case that we\u2019re going to see a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) come in that is not related to this, so this is a Trojan horse. I would love to hear\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229be0c1ae56704c5dbac0c85a47baf7f9\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Trojan horse? We are talking Greek.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201a75e3177884eafa41a1b08eb527491\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014someone from that side actually have the courage to talk now. Stand on your feet and have a chance\u2014when I take my seat, Mr Little, you\u2019ll get your chance. Stand up and give us an assurance there will be no SOP put forward on this bill. That\u2019s all we want to hear. Do that and we might be relaxed about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that said it would be transparent, and yet we\u2019re seeing, time after time, the opaqueness of\u2014I don\u2019t know what; black walls, I guess. This is just absolutely a Government that doesn\u2019t\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ef7df1042e84e8483c469d4307c8abf\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Opaqueness of black walls?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256c77b9dc39c406896845156d5ab9275\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, read your literature, Mr Little.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1193b38b006482f98d7ba33b0e6aabd\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Stone walls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022593ce5536f3c41c8a5311e3b06b03112\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, indeed. Well, I wish they would stonewall. Let\u2019s have a full select committee process, or take Mr Simpson\u2019s advice and go through a very much truncated process and let\u2019s deal with it today. You guys on that side should really just stand up and get on with the job and let this pass right through its processes this afternoon. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u00227930b8af4b8c4739a1e2482c471b8e09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227930b8af4b8c4739a1e2482c471b8e09\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, sir. I will definitely try not to replicate what previous members have said. Can I say that my concerns around this process are: I asked a question in this House that permits that are to be protected by this Government\u2014that we would not see any surprise legislation come in that would change those conditions. I would say that either my choice is that we see this bill, which is agreed on both sides of the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c3c21c499ca4e41882de077b53b6471\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Unanimous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222985bbcc87694d928e8a7dde9c250035\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014unanimously, proceed through all remaining stages without debate and be voted upon, or that we go to a full select committee process. What this bill is dealing with is consent applications specifically for extractive industries, whether it\u2019s fishing or whether that\u2019s petroleum exploration. My concern\u2014why I asked the question last week\u2014is that when this Government say they will protect permits, my question was that they will not enter any further conditions. My concern is that in a very short select committee process, that doesn\u2019t put out the full intent or give opportunity for full community and industry discussion, we could\u2014and I hope not, but we could\u2014have a Supplementary Order Paper land in this House in the committee stage that changes those conditions. That\u2019s the reason why I asked that question last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWe know that the Minister said that she believes in democracy. Well, democracy needs to have its full opportunity for expression, and that is a full committee process. Or if it\u2019s indeed true that we have total agreement across this House regarding this simple error; that we agree to see that change\u2014and I\u2019ve read it, and it\u2019s very simple. New clause 52A in the bill is a very simple addition to the Act that we could actually agree across this House, and across benches, to support now. It would align this bill with the Environmental Protection Authority, and that\u2019s the way that I would prefer to see it\u2014either that process, or a full process through the select committee process, so that we don\u2019t get hijacked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ELook, I hate to have this suspicion, but it\u2019s possible, and when I asked for that assurance last week it was not given to me. So that is my concern, and I wish to express it to this House and to those who are listening tonight. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002211ee21eb533e4443b1d13ca83d579385\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211ee21eb533e4443b1d13ca83d579385\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I am very pleased to take a call on this debate around the shortened select committee process. Mr Parker got up and said that he wanted to get through this with speed and haste because it was so important that we clear it up immediately. It was a small, technical amendment; we need to get it done\u2014let\u2019s do it. But speed and haste from that side of the House is not happening today. We had to sit here today and listen to all of those Government speakers get up and pontificate for 10 minutes each. They stretched it out as long as they could\u2014so speed and haste, but not today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo while we had to listen to them all speak for 10 minutes today, we are not going to give the public that same allowance. We\u2019re going to truncate that process because while we all have to sit here and listen to them talk for 10 minutes, we\u2019re not going to give the public of New Zealand that same allowance. We\u2019re not going to give the public any time to actually have their say, and they\u2019re the people we want to hear from. We don\u2019t want to sit here and listen to these Government MPs stretch out their speeches for 10 minutes; what we want to do is hear from the public of New Zealand, and if we\u2019re going to have a select committee process, let\u2019s do it right. As my learned colleague said earlier, let\u2019s do it right. You do it, or you don\u2019t do it at all. It is so important that we hear, because we heard from all of the Government speakers today that we must do this properly, we must get these mistakes corrected in the select committee process, and that if we\u2019re going to do it, we have to give them the full process. It\u2019s not fair to have to listen to these guys for 10 minutes but not give the public that same allowance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI think it is only fair, and I call today for one of two things to happen. Either we allow for the full select committee process and we are fair to the people of New Zealand\u2014to have the proper process happen\u2014or we do what Mr Scott Simpson said earlier, which is let\u2019s get this done today. We can do the whole thing today. It\u2019s a small, technical mistake. It shouldn\u2019t have happened; it did happen. We all agree that it can be fixed today\u2014and we could do that. But they didn\u2019t want to do that. So what they\u2019ve said instead is we\u2019re going to have a truncated select committee process whereby the public are cheated out of the chance to have their say, and that\u2019s not fair. Let\u2019s do it and do it right or, as Mr Scott Simpson said, let\u2019s just get it over and done with today, because it is a very small technical amendment. We don\u2019t need to be wasting all of this time and money, as I said earlier. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002223a8031024c749d8b2715995a1563548\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223a8031024c749d8b2715995a1563548\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of that opinion will say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236da231a77ae46fe9e2558ade4cc4bc1\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave for this bill to proceed forthwith through all remaining stages without debate and on one vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b2e933dee2e4b108775b4e75e9ead44\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I started putting the question, and I\u2019m inclined to finish, but I\u2019ll just take some advice on that. As I thought, there is a motion on the Table and I am putting the question for that, so that leave can\u2019t be given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a5a55360ffce425082a02b3ee88ae831\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000520\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 64, Noes 55.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0b480c9ab7e4e8d988d495f763fcfc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0b480c9ab7e4e8d988d495f763fcfc6\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill to proceed forthwith through all remaining stages without debate and on one vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022629199142a3f4c3aa6bfe153753b14fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022629199142a3f4c3aa6bfe153753b14fe\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection. I call on Government order of the day No. 4\u2014[Interruption] Apologies to the Minister. I need to amend the vote. The Ayes were 63; the Noes were 55.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b95de9f20ceb45d7820e5a6531deaaac\u0022\u003ESocial Security Legislation Rewrite Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f1f0e915113944849a5709c0d6854fb6\u0022\u003EDischarge and Referral to Social Services and Community Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002294553a0fec094361924bafebd8736a48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294553a0fec094361924bafebd8736a48\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Have you called that next Government motion, sir?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022670c87d9b75141bfbc24413d71dd53f8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have announced it, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0819eeb97c94daf9885ec654d109607\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Great. The Government has taken a very hard line today about legislative mishaps, as indicated in the debate we just had on a three-page bill that is being referred to a select committee. This is one of two Supplementary Order Papers that\u2019s been tabled\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296ee44f99e964d62af8843e473477c50\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022debab3ac73c843a5adf4ab4f53e5bf93\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll hear this point of order first, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214d79a83177d48f0a8f952a9459a085a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014today, and it deserves full legislative scrutiny so that there are no legislative mishaps. I move, That the order of the day for the second reading of the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill be discharged and that the bill be referred to the Social Services and Community Committee for further consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d016ae7c5c3747cf8c1db2395f0d2ffb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227e77c0de78ee4e209fb6b608ea509237\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00225f5922d5d9864f10979544ec35fe93ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f5922d5d9864f10979544ec35fe93ea\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis is a landmark bill, rewriting a piece of legislation that is more than 50 years old. It will be only the second time that the Social Security Act has been rewritten. The first Social Security Act was passed in 1938 and rewritten 26 years later, in 1964. The 1964 Act is long overdue for a rewrite. When it was first passed, it had 135 sections. It has since grown to well over 500 sections, and, of those, only four remain unchanged, with other sections repealed or amended, sometimes hundreds of times. Altogether, that makes for a very disjointed and confusing Act, and there have been many calls, both from within this House and outside of it, for it to be completely rewritten.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe previous National-led Government introduced the rewrite bill to the House. The Hon Christopher Finlayson said, \u201CIt is [time] that we have this rewrite, because the Social Security Act 1964 is a shambles. It is unintelligible \u2026 The public do not know what it means, in a critically important area of law,\u201D. Labour, Green, and New Zealand First MPs all spoke in favour of this sentiment. All parties in the House were united in thinking the Social Security Act needed to be rewritten. Sir Geoffrey Palmer and Professor John Burrows, members of the Law Commission, even identified the Social Security Act as the worst statute on the book.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWhen the bill was being considered at select committee, many submitters expressed the same sentiment and supported rewriting the legislation to improve its clarity and accessibility. It was, therefore, concerning that the select committee was given a shortened time frame for consideration of this bill\u2014slightly ironic given the debate this afternoon\u2014in the expectation that the bill would be passed by the end of 2016. Despite this, the bill languished on the Order Paper throughout 2016 and 2017. It was not given the attention it deserved as one of the most significant pieces of legislation in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe previous Government had indicated the rewrite bill would be a neutral legislative clean-up. When the bill was introduced, however, there were several new policy proposals. The principles of the Act had been amended to include a principle relating to the investment approach. The emergency benefit was reformed, and two benefits were merged together, amongst other changes. In the Labour Party\u2019s view, these changes were significant and should not have been included in a rewrite bill. The Green Party and New Zealand First also stood in this House at the time to express similar views.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAt the select committee, submitters expanded on these concerns, with the vast majority of submitters opposing the policy changes. More generally, they noted a deep concern with the direction of New Zealand\u2019s welfare system. In the Labour Party\u2019s minority view, set out in the select committee report, we noted our disappointment that their advice was not taken on board by the National-led Government of the time. Labour, Green, and New Zealand First joined with the vast majority of submitters in opposing the rewrite bill. Whilst we all committed to rewriting the Act, the significant policy changes included in the bill made it impossible for us to support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAt that time, I submitted a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) to include our own policy changes, as it was clear the original rewrite bill presented by the previous National Government had a political policy agenda. I want now, as Minister for Social Development, to progress this bill as a genuinely policy-neutral rewrite of the Social Security Act. To ensure this, I have withdrawn my own earlier Supplementary Order Paper, which I introduced following the select committee stage, as I did not want these policy changes to derail this critical piece of legislation. In further support of a neutral legislative rewrite, I have released a new Supplementary Order Paper that will be considered at the committee of the whole House stage, which removes the significant policy changes from the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis could have all been avoided if the previous Government had had a truly policy-neutral rewrite of the legislation when they had the opportunity to do it. This builds on the widespread support for rewriting the Act, whilst removing the contentious parts of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere are seven policy changes that National included in the original rewrite bill, which are taken out through this SOP. These are, one, a new regulation-making power to identify specific client circumstances where compulsory redirection of benefit payments is deemed appropriate. This would have reduced the security for beneficiaries and allows these changes to be made outside of the public arena\u2014which is of significant concern. Two, merging the orphan\u2019s benefit and unsupported child\u2019s benefit into a single benefit named supported child\u2019s payment. The policy settings were to be aligned so that step-parents would not be eligible. Three, renaming the emergency benefit as the exceptional circumstances benefit. Four, case managers being given discretion to apply work or work-preparation obligations to a person granted the exceptional circumstances benefit\u2014emergency benefit. We deemed this inappropriate given the nature of this benefit payment, especially as most recipients are over the age of 65. Five, both parents in split-care situations\u2014which is when a parent cares for at least one dependent child from the former relationship\u2014are to be eligible for sole parent support. Submissions during the select committee outlined concerns that this may encourage children to be split up between parents, which is something we do not believe is in the best interests of children. Six, including the objectives of the investment approach and the overarching principles of the Social Security Act 1964. The former Government\u2019s investment approach was seriously flawed and had a narrow focus on fiscal risk and liability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe seventh policy change, which has been taken out with this Supplementary Order Paper, is the one that was about a single rate of sole parent support for single carers who are paid the supported child\u2019s payment, orphans benefit, and unsupported child\u2019s benefit. While we acknowledge that that was a positive step, it does not belong in a policy-neutral rewrite. We believe, on this side of the House, that it is essential to clean up the legislation first without rushing through policy changes that haven\u2019t been properly thought out. What we see the role of this being is, basically, prior to an overhaul\u2014it\u2019s like sweeping the floor before we put the furniture down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want to make progress in this rewrite, as it will bring the old, patched-up Act into the modern era, where legislation can be read and understood by people without years of legal training. The bill looks very different to the 1964 Act. It has a logical structure and flow. For example, in the 1964 Act, the various main benefits are separated and supplementary assistance is in seven different parts, and assistance for young people is tacked on at the end. By contrast, in the rewrite bill, all the financial assistance measures are grouped together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis bill uses a modern drafting style and provides more explanation and guidance for users. There is a full contents table at the start of the bill and a further contents table is provided for each part and each schedule of provision. Taken as a whole, the bill is easier for people to navigate, use, and understand. This will help ensure New Zealanders understand and have access to their entitlements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EA modern, clear, and accessible Social Security Act will provide a solid legislative platform for changes that stem from this Government\u2019s overhaul of the welfare system. The focus of the overhaul will be on making substantive policy improvements to social security. Completing work on the rewrite bill separately will ensure that potential policy improvements can be considered without any distractions arising from questions about the Act\u2019s clarity or structure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis Government has already taken steps to improve the fairness of the current system through the Families Package, we\u2019ve provided more targeted assistance through Working for Families to make it easier for people to work and raise a family, we\u2019ve introduced the Best Start tax credit to help New Zealand families and wh\u0101nau to give their children the best start in life, and we\u2019ve got a new winter energy payment that will help about a million people with the cost of heating their homes in winter. The Supplementary Order Paper includes the relevant changes from the Families Package legislation, including the winter energy payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge the work of the Social Services Committee, ably\u2014at the time that this went through the select committee\u2014chaired by the Hon Alfred Ngaro. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the 121 submitters, including the 52 who gave oral submissions. Their evidence was invaluable in scrutinising this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIn order to maintain momentum on the bill, I support the adoption of the recommendations of the select committee. The recommendations were predominantly minor and technical improvements to the bill. I have tabled a Supplementary Order Paper, which amends the bill to create a truly policy-neutral rewrite. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebefa64bdd7c4c8794c0f9e20679b574\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebefa64bdd7c4c8794c0f9e20679b574\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E I agree with probably a couple of minor things that the Minister Carmel Sepuloni has said. One thing that surprises me is that in the House this afternoon, there\u2019s been vociferous debate about select committee scrutiny, about the extension of report-backs for the Environment Committee to provide additional scrutiny for the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill\u2014which is a three-page bill to go back to a select committee for scrutiny\u2014and yet, today, we have 500 pages of a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) that no member of the public, let alone this House, will get to scrutinise, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a2ce6217c53469dbd16be2878d942c4\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Policy neutral\u2014listen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286b9aedab83e4eaa9656fe27f7d5566d\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Policy neutral. So we\u2019ve heard a comment from the other side of the House about the significant rewrite legislation, which, of course, hadn\u2019t been touched for 50 years, and legislatively it was a mess. It was unintelligible and absolutely needed to be tidied up. But one thing that puzzles me is that the Government, who supposedly want to have a more empathetic and responsive system, don\u2019t see that the Government of the day should\u2019ve taken opportunities to make some minor policy changes to ensure greater well-being for vulnerable children, to enable greater flexibility to support some beneficiaries, and to support the very New Zealanders that that side of the House purports to represent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s just have a look at what these minor policy changes were and see if our listeners disagree about whether or not they would advance the best interests of children. Here\u2019s one around children whose parents are separated, so it is a situation of split care\u2014one parent might have one child, the other parent might have two, and both are not in work. This change would allow both of those parents to claim the sole parent support, but no\u2014that side of the House says \u201CNo. We\u2019re going to make those children suffer.\u201D because of this minor change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ELet me give you another one\u2014and, again, I\u2019ll remind the Minister of her own comments, which were about having Work and Income, having a social security system that was \u201Cempathetic and responsive\u201D. So guess what? If you are a step-parent, if you have a child and both its biological parents have passed away, that is one vulnerable child that every New Zealander should support, but no, they\u2019re not entitled to the same support as other parents. So the Government\u2019s decided to kick out minor changes that at the very heart of the intent were about supporting children who needed the support the most\u2014which is unbelievable\u2014and about having a system that is easier for front-line staff to navigate and easier for the very people who need it most. It is absolutely staggering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to introduce a couple of other issues, because there is another item that has been amended by this Government, and that is official advice. So the Government is ignoring official advice from the Legislation Design and Advisory Committee 2014 guidelines about how to improve the structure of legislation, which is about what should be in primary legislation and what should be in secondary legislation. I know for some people that doesn\u2019t mean a lot, but when you are rewriting a piece of legislation for the first time in 50 years, make sure you follow the advice of the legislation advisory committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut no\u2014no\u2014this Government knows best! They don\u2019t think the public should have a say on 500 pages of an SOP. They\u2019ve dumped it on the table a couple of hours before this debate, with the intention of ramming it through the committee stage tomorrow. Well, I say that\u2019s not good enough. For a Government that\u2019s supposedly open and transparent, who\u2019s open to public scrutiny, this is absolutely lousy, lousy process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to give you another example of how lousy this process is. Normally what happens when a piece of legislation is drafted\u2014or, you could argue, a Supplementary Order Paper of this magnitude\u2014the officials then write a departmental disclosure statement or a regulatory impact statement. Has this been done? No. So here\u2019s another example of a Government short-cutting due process, good process. This is all around making good law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo I say to the Minister of Social Development, is the Minister saying there is not one mistake\u2014not one mistake\u2014in this SOP? We saw in the bill previously that there was one mistake. One mistake has been quite significant for this House\u2014quite significant. But that one mistake is being fixed and is being scrutinised by a select committee\u2014this isn\u2019t. Five hundred pages is absolutely outrageous for the Government to do, particularly since it\u2019s \u201CTransparency Week\u201D this week. Perhaps they didn\u2019t read the memo about \u201CTransparency Week\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really interesting. I want to draw your attention, as the Minister did, to the Labour minority view. In the Labour minority view, the Labour Party members were worried about\u2014guess what?\u2014public accountability and scrutiny. The Minister doesn\u2019t care about it now, and is too arrogant to think about members of the public who have an interest in this\u2014the very beneficiary advocacy groups she\u2019s too busy quoting, getting the next person to speak to make sure they fill in the blanks that she didn\u2019t cover. I bet the House that there\u2019s at least one mistake in this SOP, so you\u2019ll be bringing it back to fix it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut the other interesting thing from the Labour and the Green minority view is\u2014and I would have thought the Greens would be really disappointed with this legislation, because the one critical thing for them as they went into the election was the removal of excessive sanctions. The Minister had the ability in the Families Package before Christmas but didn\u2019t do it. The Minister\u2019s had the ability to remove sanctions in this legislation\u2014hasn\u2019t done it. So the Greens must be pretty gutted that their principal social welfare policy is being ignored by the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing is that this is a completely missed opportunity for the Government. The Minister has said that there\u2019s a significant overhaul required to make the system more empathetic and responsive. The first opportunity, first piece of legislation, is a missed opportunity\u2014not doing it; not doing things that support the very New Zealanders, the very children, that you have said are important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another item that I thought was worth bringing to the House\u2019s attention. On numerous occasions, the Government of the day, led by the Prime Minister, have talked about the fact that this Government will put the interests of children at the heart of everything they do. I bet the House that this piece of legislation, this 500-page SOP, has not gone through the scrutiny to see what the impact is on children. There are children living in the households who should be getting more than they are today\u2014getting entitlements, Minister, that they\u2019re not entitled to today\u2014and you\u2019re missing the opportunity to help those families, to help those very poor and vulnerable families to get more income, to get more benefits than they are today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a hugely missed opportunity. I\u2019m staggered. I\u2019m absolutely staggered that the Ardern-Peters Government is ignoring a golden opportunity to support those who need it most, and is instead taking away changes that simplify the system and make it easier for people to get the support they need. The principles that are being removed\u2014the principles of social investment\u2014are about supporting those who need it most. So that\u2019s what I\u2019m finishing on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThis bill originally was about supporting those who need it most, and having legislation that was understandable, workable, easy for the Ministry of Social Development to navigate, and easy for the very people that are supported by it to understand it and get better access to what they\u2019re entitled to. It is a complete contradiction and an absolute outrage that that side of the House won\u2019t allow scrutiny for an SOP that is 500 pages long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00228aee567057c446bf8ab25e497cb712ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228aee567057c446bf8ab25e497cb712ba\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Associate Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare, k\u0101ti r\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and greetings to one and all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s clear that on the other side of the House they\u2019re scared of a bit of hard work. What\u2019s also clear in that particular contribution to this particular bill is that that side of the House don\u2019t understand what a policy-neutral piece of work looks like, because almost half of the speech that was given by the member Louise Upston, who just resumed her seat, are new policy initiatives and ones that are tainted by their agenda. That\u2019s an important part to remember when we consider this particular bill. Why? Because it\u2019s important that when we do this, we make sure that we provide the best platform for what truly is something that is going to take a systematic change\u2014a systematic change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIn order to do that, it\u2019s important that we tidy up some areas. It is important that we\u2014how shall we say?\u2014tidy up the backyard. In the order of tidying up the backyard, only then can we find a platform that will actually make meaningful change for the New Zealanders out there who the member who just resumed her seat purported to be speaking on behalf of. What we see from the submitters on legislation or bills like this\u2014and we saw it under the last Government, when, actually, submitters were very clear about what they saw in the work that was carried out under the last Government on social welfare reform. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EMight I add too that submitters were clear about taking a policy-neutral stance or position on the rewrite of the Social Security Act. They were very clear about that policy-neutral stance. We wanted that to happen. The submitters wanted that to happen, and the last Government absolutely ignored them. They were very clearly ramming through\u2014and the member used those words \u201Cramming through\u201D\u2014their policy changes, ignoring completely the submitters who were very clear on a policy-neutral approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESo some of the aspects that are not included in the bill are those policy platforms that the last Government were really keen on ramming through, to use member\u2019s words. The Minister actually already highlighted the seven policies that won\u2019t be considered in this particular bill, and some of those are pretty straightforward to me. Why they seem pretty straightforward is because, as I mentioned just previously, just earlier, the tidy-up of the backyard is important to get the platform to make the kind of changes into the future, changes that actually align with the agenda of this Government, the New Zealand First and Labour Government with the support of the Green Party; to make sure that many of the issues that we heard in our time in Opposition actually are addressed and addressed properly; to make sure that people get their full and correct entitlement, as the member who just contributed on this bill\u2014things like that are important. But that particular side of the House actually are opposed to that and, I\u2019d argue, take a very punitive approach to the administration of the Social Security Act. So it\u2019s important that we do these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESo some of the technical parts of this particular bill are\u2014and I\u2019ve mentioned it\u2014making sure that it\u2019s policy-neutral. So the aspects that we won\u2019t see in there, as mentioned by the Minister\u2014there are seven in particular. One of those is, of course, the emergency benefit, renamed the exceptional circumstances benefit. Another one is the regulation-making power to identify specific client circumstances where compulsory redirection of benefit payments is appropriate in order to ensure positive outcomes for clients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s in that vein that I actually want to touch on a point that the member who contributed to this bill before me made. She talked about investment and social investment. When I look at the parts that have been removed from the original piece of work that was started with regard to this bill by the last Government, it\u2019s important then, as we progress forward, that, actually, investment and social investment takes on a meaning that will provide more change and better outcomes, in my opinion, for Kiwis, for New Zealanders, out there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESome of the parts that are being retained under this particular bill are the rebalancing between primary and delegated legislation as drafted, except the definition of \u201Caccommodation costs\u201D and \u201Ccash assets\u201D for the accommodation supplement will be returned to primary legislation and the eligibility criteria for funeral grants will be returned to primary legislation. These are all technical aspects that need to be tidied up, and I can\u2019t reiterate this point enough: those have to be tidied up to make sure that, like I say, the pathway that we lead the social security legislation on into the future is one that is more responsive to our people and the communities that it\u2019s there to serve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWe talk all the time about the kind of administration of public services that our people have received outside the bubble of this particular House. We know that there are some significant issues there. So for the systematic change to happen, I say it once again: this is why we are proposing this particular bill, as a rewrite to make sure that the platform, once again, is a lot more solid into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESo, look, I don\u2019t want to go on too much longer, but I do want to just make it clear that that side of the House have also moaned about the truncated process. I\u2019ll say it once again: they seem scared of a bit of hard work, and they also are scared that in the true progression of a policy-neutral piece of work, their agenda\u2014that didn\u2019t work for our people over the past decade\u2014is going to be scrapped and thrown to the side. That\u2019s the important point that we want to make with a piece of work like this\u2014to make sure that the navigation of the public, when they come into the requirement of services like the Social Security Act, actually meets their needs, is more responsive, and caters to, obviously, the needs of the public and those who need it the most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESo, look, I won\u2019t labour the point any more, but I do want to support the Minister in this particular piece of work and say that I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022db1615de5f69437fa51fc19e6ad7c9fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db1615de5f69437fa51fc19e6ad7c9fa\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E With respect to that member, Peeni Henare, both of us worked within the Ministry of Social Development, and I suspect both of us know that a document of 501 pages, which then sits on top of an existing 500-and-something pages\u2014something like this is not policy-neutral. In fact, that member will know, as I know, that pretty much when any Government, Labour or National, gets into power, there\u2019s very little which is policy-neutral.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI also take a little bit of umbrage around the notion that we\u2019re scared of hard work. I don\u2019t think any member in this House is scared of hard work. But if the suggestion, ultimately, is that we are best to somehow deal with 501 pages of Supplementary Order Paper in the committee of the whole House\u2014that that\u2019s where the hard work takes place, what\u2019s being implied, I suppose, consequently, is we don\u2019t need a select committee process. If this is about hard work for the members of Parliament by going through 501 pages of a Supplementary Order Paper in the committee of the whole House, then we just don\u2019t need select committees. I don\u2019t say that because I\u2019m a select committee chair, but, actually, hard work continues in two ways in this House: one, obviously, through the committee of the whole House, but, importantly, engaging with the public. That is hard work, but it\u2019s rewarding and useful hard work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve heard a lot about this rewrite bill\u2014that it\u2019s to be policy-neutral. That was certainly the intention of the previous Government, but what we\u2019ve heard from the other side\u2014and it was in their minority report\u2014is that they did not believe it was policy-neutral. So let\u2019s for a moment accept that whatever came through from the previous National Government was not policy-neutral. You would expect, then, having the new Government taking the moral high ground that they couldn\u2019t vote in support for this bill because it wasn\u2019t policy-neutral, that they themselves would introduce something like that, but no, they haven\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe incredible irony has been for them to take what they deemed to not be policy-neutral, which is this document here, and to add their 501 pages, if you will, of a Supplementary Order Paper to really sort of ratchet up the policy quality of their own side. It\u2019s a huge, huge paradox.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also a paradox in light of our previous discussion\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022346a45a584b24f69b9e64ac98e5f31b1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s an abuse of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8f6b18596be4d5b9665fe12deab6fef\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, it is an abuse of Parliament. It\u2019s actually an abuse, I would suggest, too, of the public, who should have their say. I was talking about it briefly in the previous Government order of the day around the exclusive economic zone\u2014that the public should be allowed to have their full say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe thing about Supplementary Order Papers that are introduced in the committee of the whole House, in a stage after the second reading of this legislation passes, is that the public do not get to have a say on this. They get no chance to have their say. This is 501 pages of Supplementary Order Paper dropped on this Parliament at the very last moment around arguably one of our most important areas, which is that of social welfare or social development. For me, this is 501 pages of legal jargon which really dismisses the importance of the people that I used to work with on the front line, who deserve better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo what we have here is, ultimately, a good intention which has gone array. The bill started as a rewrite, an attempt to modernise our legislation. I think all of us can accept that, and, in fact, if that\u2019s where this bill had remained, that would be excellent. However, it has not. It has returned as a particularly legislative implementing, if you will, of the legislative programme of the Government in a variety of areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EMy colleague the Hon Louise Upston pointed out one area which to us is not policy-neutral, and cannot be policy-neutral, and that\u2019s affirming that a sole parent benefit will only ever be paid to one parent. Under the arguments of some in the social sector that to split the payment on occasions where parents may be actually dually looking after multiple children\u2014so we\u2019re not talking one child; we\u2019re splitting the payment. If you\u2019ve got two or three children\u2014let\u2019s say the dad\u2019s looking after two, the mum\u2019s looking after one\u2014the current proposal in this 501 pages of early-drop Supplementary Order Paper says that that benefit can only be paid to one parent, with the argument being from the social sector that it could cause the splitting of families. I think it\u2019s a valid argument, but that\u2019s probably a small number of people compared to the large number of people who rely on the sole benefit and those parental arrangements, and I can think of a number in my own electorate that would fit into this. We could debate that policy aspect all night, but it is not policy-neutral. The most concerning element of this whole process is that the New Zealand public will not get their say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe final thing\u2014because I\u2019m conscious the bell will go for the dinner break soon\u2014is that in the minority view from Labour, the now Minister Sepuloni made a big, big plea that her push to, basically, create an affront to the United Nations Declaration of the Rights of the Child, to say that a father doesn\u2019t have to be named\u2014we could get into that, of course. She made a big play that she wanted that removed. She didn\u2019t want that to be part of the legislation; she made a very big push that she\u2019d remove the sanctioning. She was very strong on this. It\u2019s very strange that as the Supplementary Order Paper comes, she\u2019s neglected to add that in. I\u2019m pleased she hasn\u2019t added it in because, again, I know the UN and a number of people have a lot to say about that. So at that point I think the contradictions continue to abound. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00220dceda8b1c784529a9e2ad0c9595ecb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220dceda8b1c784529a9e2ad0c9595ecb4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good evening everyone. The House is resumed. When we broke for dinner, we were on the second reading of the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill. Simon O\u2019Connor had the call and he has three minutes and 51 seconds remaining to speak, if he wishes to take it. He is not calling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u00226f9887867d9b4b60bccd1e0be061f7c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f9887867d9b4b60bccd1e0be061f7c3\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. I\u2019m not surprised that Mr O\u2019Connor couldn\u2019t fill another three minutes\u2019 worth of what he was saying just before the dinner break, because it was just rubbish and I don\u2019t think any honourable member in this House would want to repeat any rubbish they\u2019ve already mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a couple of things that I\u2019d like to highlight firstly, before I get into the substance of what I was going to talk about. I\u2019m going to react to a couple of the things, a number of things, that the National Party has spoken on already. One of the things they keep saying is this term \u201Cpolicy-neutral\u201D. What they\u2019ve failed to mention is that that was the actual intent from the National Party. When they put the bill in, in the first place, it was a policy-neutral bill. I remember coming into this House\u2014and it was quite a while ago now. I think it was over a year or two years, I think, for the first reading. I remember thinking to myself that this wasn\u2019t a policy-neutral bill. In fact, it was quite the opposite\u2014it was quite the opposite. And not only was it full of policy changes, what the National Party and the Minister at that time were saying was that they were minor policy changes. They weren\u2019t minor policy changes; they actually were changes in policy that had some quite substantial flow-on effects that a number of submitters actually challenged and actually had some big issues with, and that the current Government parties as well had a big number of issues with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EOne of them\u2014which was a huge one, from New Zealand First\u2019s point of view and perspective, and I think from the Greens and the Labour Party as well\u2014was how, nestled into the half a dozen so-called minor policy changes, there was a change in principle, a change in the guiding principle of the entire Act. That isn\u2019t minor, in anyone\u2019s books\u2014not minor in anyone\u2019s books\u2014especially since at that time, when New Zealand First, the Greens, and the Labour Party were in Opposition, we had vehemently opposed the social investment approach, which was what the then National Government was trying to put into the principle of the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI noted back then, during the first speech of the Minister for Social Development\u2014back in 2016, I believe it was\u2014there was not one mention of the social investment approach being put into the principles. So I think that the National Party needs to recognise where this bill has come from, what the absolute intent of this bill was originally when they were in Government, how they didn\u2019t manage to be able to do that, and where we are today, with, ironically, going back to the original intent of what the National Party wanted it to be, which was a policy-neutral bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also had complaints from Louise Upston, I think it was, that this wasn\u2019t a policy-neutral bill and that\u2019s why it should go back to select committee to be scrutinised by the public. What the Hon Louise Upston needs to do is just read the explanatory note of Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 25, and it might give it away that it\u2019s not full of policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ESo it states that \u201CThis Supplementary Order Paper sets out amendments to the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill. The amendments are in 4 groups:\u201D, and I\u2019ll just read the titles and not read through the couple of pages. First of all: \u201CRemoving some identified changes to effect of current law\u201D. So that is what we\u2019ve said it would do\u2014it is going to remove the policy that the National Party wanted to place into the bill in its original form. So we\u2019re going to remove it to make it policy-neutral. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe next heading is \u201CAdding some minor \u2026 clarifications to effect of current law\u201D\u2014so just some minor clarifications. Then: \u201CMaking some minor drafting corrections or improvements\u201D\u2014making some minor drafting corrections or improvements. And: \u201CUpdating since Bill reported from [the] Social Services Committee\u201D, because that\u2019s how long ago it was\u2014the law changes since then and now. So all of the law changes that have occurred between when the original bill came back, reported from the select committee, to now\u2014logically, we\u2019ve got to put in and update the laws that have been put in place to make it sensible. The references we updated, the commencement date will be updated, and that\u2019s it. There\u2019s no actual policy changes in this SOP, just like the Minister has stated, just like every other Government member has stated, and that, clearly, the National Party and the Opposition have not been reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been a few changes since this was in its first reading in this House. There were originally a few small changes recommended by the select committee. There\u2019s definitely changes been made through this SOP getting rid of those policies, but the biggest and most important change to this that happened since its first reading in this House is that the Government has changed. So now we can actually make some sense of what the process should be in actually rewriting the social security legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe original intent was to make it so that it is more readable, more accessible, and easier to understand. That\u2019s the starting point at which we need to start adding policy through the overhaul that will be coming later on, through this Government. But what the previous Government and National Party wanted to do was add in their little bits. They could have had this bill through a lot earlier, a lot sooner, and likely with the support of every party in this House if it was just a policy-neutral bill and tidying up, because we all agree on that. I believe that 99 percent of all of the submitters praised what the bill was intending to do. The original intent was to make the Act more readable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI am\u2014like I mentioned\u2014happy, and New Zealand First is happy, to see that the social investment approach is not going to be used as a guiding principle in the Act. We have forever stood in this House and given evidence upon evidence and reason upon reason about why the social investment approach doesn\u2019t work with the provision of social services to the people of this country. It\u2019s got evidence from around the world where they have implemented it or had trials of implementing it, and it does not work. It just simply does not work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EWhat the National Party would like to do is to try and own what the term \u201Csocial investment\u201D means, the definition of social investment, because even with bills going through this House at this moment, with the Social Services Committee, we get the National Party members asking submitters\u2014talking about what the social investment definition is and why and if it should be implemented in the legislation coming through. They believe that the social investment approach is investing wisely in the people who need it the most. Now, that\u2019s a nice-sounding thing and sound bite, and if that was the actual case then I don\u2019t think we\u2019d have any problems with it. It\u2019s not the fact that New Zealand First or the Government is against investing socially responsibly or the social investment approach. It\u2019s how the previous Government\u2014the National Party\u2014took the social investment approach for what it was, and it was totally wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019d like to just quickly do, in my last couple of minutes, is have a look at the departmental report from the Social Services Committee. It\u2019s dated August 2016. One of the things that I got highlighted for me was the comments from the submitters around the purpose and the principles of the Act and what social security actually means and what it should mean. A number of them mentioned that social security should be acting as a safety net and a minimum social floor that no one falls below. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EWith the nine years of the National Government, when they moved through with this legislation and the social investment approach, that was not their main purpose. That was not their definition. What they hooked themselves on was Better Public Services targets\u2014things like reducing the number of beneficiaries, and not necessarily at all looking at where they are going to if they move off the benefit, or whether that is a good thing for that individual. What the National Party lost over the last nine years\u2014or the better part of a decade\u2014was the meaning of what the social security blanket should mean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First will be supporting this bill and the changes that the current Minister is wanting to make over the next little while because we support the original intent of this bill, which is being policy-neutral. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u0022684fab9daae44089a3d26498b35c71e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022684fab9daae44089a3d26498b35c71e5\u0022\u003EJO HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I stand to take a call in the second reading of the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill. It\u2019s been interesting sitting back here listening to the contributions in the House and some of the, I suppose, explanations from the Government about why they\u2019ve done what they\u2019ve done, especially around Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 25, this 500-page document, which I must say is going to take a bit of reading to get through. But I also see it as a Government that talks about transparency and openness to the public, and yet this here arrived, as everybody knows, on our desks just before question time today and heading towards the second reading, and the public won\u2019t get to actually have any say or contribute to any parts on Supplementary Order Paper 25. So I find that rather extraordinary about this Government, who state that they are a transparent Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI just want to look at a couple of the entitlements that were spoken about today. My colleague the Hon Louise Upston spoke about step-parents that would be looking after a child or children of parents that have passed away, and how this bill will not actually include them\u2014they will not be able to actually access any sole parent benefits for these children. I just want to add that that could also mean the role of the grandparents as well, when parents pass away and their children end up living with their grandparents. The grandparents, in some cases, may be on a pension and may need to have some extra support to actually help them to look after those children, and I think that it does actually put them way behind in that support. I just feel for the grandparents that may be faced with a situation like this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EIn the bill, it actually states that there\u2019s nothing there for parents of a shared care situation, where one parent may have one child, the other might have two children, and both are caring for those children, but what it actually does is it adds hardship to one of the parents. So while one parent will be able to access the sole parent benefit, the other one will miss out. So what\u2019s to say that that other parent might say, \u201CWell, OK, you look after all the kids and we\u2019ll leave it at that.\u201D? It does put hardship on that other parent, and, at the end of the day, it also takes away the freedom of the parents to be able to parent their children and still be able to access that sole parent benefit as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI just want to also add, around the naming of the father of the child, that I think that that particular piece of policy that we, the National Party, had\u2014whereby those accessing the DPB would have to name the father, otherwise it would penalise between $22 and $28 a week in their benefits\u2014hasn\u2019t actually come through in this bill, and I think that\u2019s rather amazing after all the furore that the Labour-led Government went on about it when it came to light. I think that it seems a little bit hypocritical, but I\u2019m pleased it\u2019s not in there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI want to also add, around when Minister Peeni Henare got up and said that this side of the House\u2014the National Party\u2014aren\u2019t hard workers, that I have never ever been in a group that works this hard, if not harder, as a political party. We will continue to keep working hard. We always work hard. We work hard and give voice to the people that support us; even those that don\u2019t support us, we also give them voice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003ESo this is going to take us some time to get through, but we will get through it and we will give it the best review that we can possibly give it, and we will continue to look at the various funny little idiosyncrasies that this Government seems to throw our way at the last minute. So I thought that was rather an insult to this side of the House, because we are hard workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EOnce again, I just want to say that this particular bill is actually supposed to help those that need it, and, to be honest, I don\u2019t think it does help all of those that need it. I think it helps a certain section of the community, and that\u2019s it. But what about all the others that are left to actually carry the rest of the childcare and other areas within this SOP, within this bill\u2014what happens to them? I think it\u2019s going to be those people that are going to be sorely disappointed with the areas within SOP 25 and all the other changes that are being made to this bill. It does disturb me that this is what the bottom line of this bill is going to do. It\u2019s going to marginalise a number of good people who can deliver very good, caring services to the children and it\u2019s going to just wipe them out. So even though we are supporting the bill in the second reading, we are not supporting SOP 25. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00224d113d60c75c48c597727e1ffb6c9ef1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d113d60c75c48c597727e1ffb6c9ef1\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to take a call on this, the second reading of the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill. At first reading, I indicated that in spite of the Green Party having previously\u2014many times\u2014raised concerns about the complexity of the social security legislation, and having, in fact, called on the Government to simplify it, we were, sadly, unable to support this piece of legislation because, despite promises to the contrary, the bill that we were presented with by the National Government was not a policy-neutral rewrite. It was, in fact, an entrenchment and embedding of the National Party ideology that went as far as changing the principle of the Act, an Act that is pretty\u2014it\u2019s hard to see how anyone could interpret that as policy-neutral. So we were forced into opposing a piece of legislation that we had been calling for for years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI do want to just reflect on the importance of this piece of legislation that we know is one of the most important pieces of legislation on our books. This legislation can support or deny people the ability to keep a roof over their heads, to put food on the table, or to have any semblance of dignity. We absolutely need this piece of legislation to deliver certainty and to be simple and easy to read. That is why the Green Party was calling for the rewrite of this legislation\u2014to give us that foundation to work with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAs I think the Minister mentioned in the introduction, this is legislation that had been last rewritten in 1964. It has been amended over 131 times, with at least 54 new sections added to it since then. I think it has now over 500\u2014or around 500\u2014sections in it, including 50 points of discretion, where it is up to the judgment of the staff to be able to interpret the legislation and the need. This does not\u2014did not\u2014deliver certainty or make it easy for people who need this legislation to be sure of what their rights were. So we supported\u2014and support now\u2014a policy-neutral rewrite to give us a foundation for moving forward, to be able to move forward to a comprehensive overhaul of our welfare system to return the safety net to our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI want to address, too, the point that was made by Jo Hayes, the previous speaker, challenging the lack of transparency of a Supplementary Order Paper being introduced at this stage in the debate and there being no chance for the public to comment and participate in that process. The irony of that just cuts rather deep, considering we sat through the submissions on this bill, hearing from so many people telling us what needed to change in this legislation\u2014that they did not want the social investment approach embedded in this legislation or the principles changed. They thought there was too much being put into regulation as opposed to the substance of the bill, and they raised serious, deep concerns about the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo a party that says that it\u2019s very concerned that the public should have the opportunity to be able to comment and help make us make decisions doesn\u2019t make sense to me. It doesn\u2019t seem quite consistent that they would have heard all that information and not made any changes in response. So I really do want to call them out on that. I do also want to just draw people\u2019s attention to their concern that this isn\u2019t progressive enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt is traditional in second reading speeches to reference submissions, so I would like to do that now. I would like to share in this House some of the stories people told us in select committee, because it is very rare\u2014in my time in Parliament in the over six years, it is seldom I have heard beneficiaries give submissions, whereas they did on this piece of legislation. What they told us was that there are some terrible things happening under the previous Government\u2019s social investment approach to welfare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe heard of a woman on supported living who had never had enough to cover all her basics. She didn\u2019t have enough for petrol and food, so when her children had an event on at school that she needed to drive to, she would go without food. This is a woman on a supported living payment who is medically unable to be in employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe heard from a woman for whom slippers, heating, and new knickers are a luxury; a woman who regularly has to wait until benefit day to pay for her prescriptions; a woman who could not afford to go out for dinner for her daughter\u2019s graduation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe heard of a man who went into Work and Income to get a food parcel because he didn\u2019t have enough to cover his bills and food. He told them how he didn\u2019t have enough to buy food and so he had been eating at his girlfriend\u2019s house, and then the staff interpreted this as being in a relationship in the nature of marriage and sought to cut his benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe were told how life is such a constant struggle it doesn\u2019t enable people to get well enough to get into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe heard from the Disabled Persons Assembly. One of the people presenting with them told us her story about how she had spent three years as a job seeker with a medical exemption because of her muscular dystrophy, which meant that she wasn\u2019t able to work. She realised that she needed to transition to a supported living benefit, rather than being on a job seeker\u2019s benefit. That was a really tough decision for her because she had spent her life as an HR manager and was used to being financially independent, and to come to terms with the fact that she was not able to be looking for work or to be in work was a tough personal decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EBefore she made the appointment, she spoke to three different Work and Income officers about what she needed to bring with her, and then cross-checked that against the information on the website. She turned up to her appointment with all of the documentation, and was told by her case worker that it was insufficient and that she would need a new medical certificate with different information on it. To get to that point, she\u2019d had to make trips to her GP in Lower Hutt\u2014in a different city\u2014and a specialist in Wellington. This was exhausting and painful, and the Work and Income offices in her region do not have disability car parks outside, so she had to walk further than she should have. She then had to wait an hour on inappropriate seats, and then the appointment was another hour, again, on inappropriate seating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EShe was upset to be told that the information she had taken so much effort to provide and get right was not enough. When she expressed this frustration, she was told the case manager couldn\u2019t help unless the right information was provided, and when she was upset and stood up to leave, they called security because they were worried that she was a risk. Then it took a long time, three medical certificates, a Work and Income officer calling her GP and asking the GP to change her certificate, and three formal complaints before she finally managed to get the supported living allowance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIs this what the Opposition heard and considered was fine? In all of their nine years in Government, they decided to ignore all of those stories and go ahead and embed their social investment approach, which has a concept of dependency in it which is exactly what the submitters told us feeds that type of response in the institution. It tells those workers in Work and Income that if you\u2019re not in work, then, actually, there is a problem with you and that you need to be fixed, rather than given the support that you need. So I am so pleased to see legislation coming back in that gives us a foundation for a comprehensive overhaul to fix that and ensure that everyone is supported to live a decent life in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u002251daaacd697445cc9eb2ae161f7c9e6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251daaacd697445cc9eb2ae161f7c9e6c\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I\u2019m taking this call to support the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill in its second reading, in its current form. So I want to make it very clear from the start that this side of the House will be supporting this bill in its second reading only in its current form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIt was the previous Government\u2014that is, the National Government\u2014that undertook this huge task of rewriting the Social Security Act 1964. This Act was passed 55 to 56 years ago. Yes, it started with around 130 sections, but now we have more than three times that number of sections in this legislation. So not only have we added more sections but we have amended almost every section of this Act, and, obviously, what happened with that is there was a lot of patchwork. It turned out that it was causing some confusion and a rewrite was needed. Given it\u2019s huge legislation and very important legislation for our social welfare assistance, when we were in Government, we undertook this huge task of rewriting this legislation. So, yes, when we took this opportunity to rewrite this legislation, we also wanted to reflect the modern-day approach towards social welfare assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI want to remind the member who has just resumed her seat, Jan Logie, that it was the National Government that increased benefits for the first time in 40-odd years for families with dependent children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db37cb9c91244ccd9f4337198b3277c4\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a5434199b294612a1656e72c3f36aa3\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014that\u2019s not a laughing matter. It\u2019s a very serious matter, because we care for children in families that are dependent on benefits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo what we are seeing is that this Government is changing their stance hugely from the stance that they had when they were in Opposition, and that is reflected in the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) that the Minister has come up with. So, yes, the bill went through the first reading, it went to the Social Services Committee, it went through the select committee scrutiny, and then it has come before the House for the second reading, and just this afternoon, before it came before the House for the second reading, what we see is that the Minister has come up with SOP 25, which is 500 pages long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EWith this SOP, what I can see is that this Government and this Minister are letting down all the submitters, because submitters\u2014[Interruption]\u2014yes, the submitters took time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a8082f5b19e4c2da9432cd8ec4caee2\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: She must have been asleep during the submission process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aa756dc4ae649458935efd31ed9c89e\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and made a special effort. They took time\u2014don\u2019t undermine the submitters\u2019 efforts, honourable Minister Carmel Sepuloni. Don\u2019t undermine their contribution. So they turned up, thinking that they were being heard. Some appeared before the select committee, and I know that some of them actually travelled from far distances. The purpose of having a select committee process is giving the public of New Zealand an opportunity to be heard. Now it\u2019s come back for the second reading\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022533cc88672ea4b87b9ccf45f851e3769\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t like the public, Dr Parmar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c657ade8be44c8fb2274f2ebba983d1\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they don\u2019t. Now it\u2019s come back for the second reading, and what we see is this Government, this Minister, coming up with this SOP. Yes, very rightly, the Hon Louise Upston wanted to seek the leave of this House to send this back to the select committee, but, no, the Government refused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo how is it fair? How is it fair for those submitters, those who were thinking that they were heard\u2014actually, they were not heard, because of the stance that this Government is taking with this SOP before the House. They think that they stand for children, that their policies are going to be children-focused, but no. We have several examples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI just want to give a couple of examples, one which is outside of this bill, and that is my member\u2019s bill, which is to see that all newborns are enrolled with general practitioners before they are six weeks old, but this Government will not support that legislation because it needs more resources. In this SOP, what we see is that the Government\u2014just giving an example. If there\u2019s a family, for some reason they split\u2014for example, if they have four children and one parent decides to look after three dependent children and the other parents decides to look after one dependent child, then in that situation this Government thinks that both parents getting a sole parent benefit is not fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo what I see is that there\u2019s a huge change in their stance since they have come in Government, from the stance they had when they were in Opposition. So, yes, with this SOP and the stance that this Government is taking, actually, they are really letting down all the submitters. So we will support this bill only in its current form. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002221d7f210b1fe4154b01bac1db7320a12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221d7f210b1fe4154b01bac1db7320a12\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224cea2a14739648089624cbe4573b1f8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cea2a14739648089624cbe4573b1f8e\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to speak on the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill. Like so many things when you first come to the House, when we get a new piece of legislation before us, it is something of an awakening, an understanding. As someone who just likes to look at the history\u2014and someone looking at my age would say I\u2019ve been part of some of that history\u2014how we\u2019ve arrived at where we are today, I think it\u2019s pretty important we understand that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI see that this piece of legislation went back to 1938\u2014the Social Security Act of that year. I\u2019m reminded of going through an elderly uncle\u2019s\u2014great-uncle\u2019s, actually\u2014belongings after he died, and reading his diaries. He was one of those people who was unemployed during the Great Depression, the sugar-bag years. Seeing a slip of paper that he\u2019d kept where he was ordered to go to a work camp and leave the family behind\u2014it was necessary for him to do so, just so they could survive. So it\u2019s really important we do understand in our history of where we\u2019ve arrived, and why such legislation was important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWhat makes New Zealand so much different from many other places\u2014and I think those who are critical of our system we have today, who think somehow it\u2019s too soft, I invite them to go to places that don\u2019t have systems like this in place, and they\u2019ll understand just why we have it and how it is something we should be so proud of. So something that really forms the basis of that which we are so proud of in New Zealand should be updated. It should be something that\u2019s modern, and it should be something that is relevant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo the rewrite bill, obviously, is the second time this has been done. The Social Security Act 1964 was passed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e5c85ab4c3348eeb88d2a17a71e9a92\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Looking forward to hearing about this bill, Gregory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291f83114474c4784867afd1ac774bed5\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: As I say to those members, just understanding that life is a building block; you can\u2019t fix things, just one little short thing, without a full in-depth understanding. If that member would sit down and be quiet, he would just understand and he will get such a necessary lesson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Social Security Act: the Minister in 1964 then talked about the present Act\u2014nearly 26 years old\u2014being amended approximately 30 times. It is extremely difficult to follow, both by the general public and by those whose responsibility it is to administer the Act. For that reason alone, the Government thinks a consolidation is well overdue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI come to this Act and why we need to rewrite it. Well, it\u2019s just long overdue for a rewrite. There are over 500 sections in the current Act, and only four remain unchanged while other sections have been repealed or amended, sometimes hundreds of times. Again, I go back to one of the most important pieces of legislation that makes it our point of difference so often with the rest of the world. It will make social security legislation easier for people to navigate, use, and understand\u2014again, bringing the legislation into line with the modern times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI speak about one particular aspect of it that is straight from the bill. This one, Mr Bayly will be pleased to know, has the rewrite bill talking about the role of nurse practitioners in the new legislation. Although I only have one minute and 10 seconds left, Mr Bayly, I will endeavour in this time to educate you through the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe rewrite bill enacts existing provisions, allowing nurse practitioners to give certificates to certify that the capacity for work of an applicant for job seeker support on the grounds of health condition, injury, or disability is affected by their health condition, injury, or disability; the nature of this problem; the extent to which their capacity is affected; and how long it is likely to last. Once again, in bringing this into modern times\u2014nurses. We\u2019ve seen in so much other legislation that nurse practitioners have been given so many more other roles that were the sole province of medical practitioners in their day. So this, again, will ensure that for those who it is absolutely necessary\u2014they do get the assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThere is a little bit of an attitude that anybody who is on welfare is in some way undeserving: \u201CIt\u2019s about time they got off their backsides.\u201D I think that so many of the other failures that we have bring people to that place, so it\u2019s important that when this time in their lives arrives, we have a fair, modern piece of legislation which ensures they get what they need. So I commend this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00229cdc2def03f1490d95d0918a0e2f3dda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cdc2def03f1490d95d0918a0e2f3dda\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I stand tonight to speak to the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill in its second reading here tonight. There\u2019s no question that this is an extremely huge piece of work. In fact, the original\u2014the Social Security Act of 1964\u2014has been very overdue for this overhaul, but it was such an enormous task that had been filed away into the too-hard basket. So who was it who took the initiative to make the legislation clearer, more user-friendly, and appropriate for the 21st century?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022449a44fad7394bd6a1398c9a23a6656a\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266bff8c1b068409d8e482bf1d91a0482\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH\u003C/span\u003E: The former National-led Government, of course. This bill is simply about making the law clear, about updating the language so that it is fit for implementation in the modern world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill will repeal the Social Security Act of 1964 and the Social Welfare (Reciprocity Agreements, and New Zealand Artificial Limb Service) Act of 1990. It does provide consistency and clarity across all of those Acts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EI support this bill in its current form, but what I do not support is this [Holds up Supplementary Order Paper 25]. Earlier today in this House, I heard a very passionate speech from a Green Party member who insisted that that Government believes in this process, that it believes in the select committee, and that it believes in the right of the public to be able to have its say, yet this afternoon we received this, and we have only had time to print it and bind it before the second reading debate happened in this House today. What we have got here is a 501-page rewrite of a rewrite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EToday, there was no time for the public to scrutinise this bill, because we have short-circuited the select committee stage. Now the public\u2019s opportunity to speak to these changes in this Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) is gone. I think it is disingenuous of this Government to dump a document of this magnitude\u2014and it does propose changes to the original bill after the public has made its submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThere were concerns with this SOP and the original bill, and they were raised by the Regulations Review Committee. There were three regulation-making powers that were highlighted, that provide for the making of regulations to identify persons or benefits that are exempt from requirements set out in the bill. The Regulations Review Committee was really clear about the fact that they should set out clear purposes for the granting of exemptions, that they should set out clear criteria for the granting of exemptions and be consistent. They should give good reasons to state them in the exemptions instrument itself and they should expire within five years and should contain sunset clauses to that effect. But we don\u2019t know if those issues have been dealt with in this SOP because there\u2019s simply no time to scrutinise it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThere was no explanation for the purpose of these exemptions, no criteria included, no requirement to give reasons for the exemptions, and no time limit on the regulations made after this clause. So there is a lot of work still to be done, and especially now that this SOP has been dumped on us today, I say that this process has done the public no service at all. I thank the Regulations Review Committee for their feedback. It\u2019s signed by the illustrious Andrew Bayly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00220cdad86d09de410391a1dbfd9462115b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220cdad86d09de410391a1dbfd9462115b\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is indeed an honour to stand and take a call on the second reading of the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill. As members opposite have pointed out time and again over the course of tonight\u2019s debate, it is indeed a huge and significant bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI want to start with a well-known whakatauk\u012B: He aha te mea nui o te ao? He tangata, he tangata, he tangata. What\u2019s the most important thing in the world? It\u2019s the people, it\u2019s the people, it\u2019s the people. That\u2019s what underscores this bill, or at least that\u2019s what should underscore this bill, and that\u2019s what underscores our rewrite of the social security legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has a proud history when it comes to leading the world on progressive social reform. In fact, it was the first Labour Government, back in the 1930s, who led on a wide range of progressive social reform and set the tone, really, for this country\u2019s economic and welfare policies for a long time. My colleague Greg O\u2019Connor has reflected a little bit on the history and the roots of this legislation rewrite bill, so I won\u2019t rehash that except to say that the 1938 Act was a cornerstone of that Government\u2019s welfare programme, in fact. The values that underpinned that Act and continue to underpin today\u2019s rewrite were the fact that we believe, on this side of the House, that everyone has the right to live with dignity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWhat we do agree on\u2014both sides of the House\u2014with regard to this particular bill is the fact that it is disjointed, that it\u2019s difficult to navigate, and that those to whom this bill will apply specifically don\u2019t find this bill user-friendly. We\u2019ve heard, of course, that there are about 500 different parts, and there are a whole bunch of different discretions that are contained within this bill. And, of course, all of us, regardless of which side of the House we\u2019re on, agree with the fact that it needs to be user-friendly and that it needs to be modernised and that it needs to be cleaned up. So we definitely agree with that\u2014the modern drafting style, the logical structure, and all of that, and making things much more discrete. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EBut here\u2019s what we\u2019re concerned with, on this side of the House. This is particularly taken from, I guess, the Labour Party\u2019s minority view at the Social Services Committee, but it holds true obviously today as well. The emergency benefit\u2014so this is one part of the bill that we don\u2019t agree with, and that we\u2019ve consistently disagreed with: the fact that it will change to what the Opposition members, formerly in Government, wanted to call the exceptional circumstances benefit. It wasn\u2019t just a name change; it was also that with this name change came a whole bunch of work obligations. The fact of the matter, though, is that the primary demographic of those who were availing themselves of this benefit are those who are over 65 years and don\u2019t qualify for superannuation, largely because of residency constraints. So these are people who need this benefit in order to be able to survive. What the Opposition members wanted to do was to change that around and bring in work obligations as well, which is completely unfair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe other aspect of the bill that we found incredibly problematic was the redirection of benefit payments. They can happen, as it stands, without consent. But under the current Act, there needs to be good cause. What this bill would have done if it had been passed was to remove that clause, remove that need for good cause to be proven, which then means that you can just redirect benefit payments, and it largely could have been, and would have been, to the detriment of those who are most vulnerable. So when Opposition members then stand up and pretend that this was a bill that was being championed because they are those who fight for the underdog\u2014I call you out on that because it absolutely was not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe other aspect of this bill that members opposite have been waxing lyrical about is the fact that the bill allows both parents in split custody care situations to be eligible for sole parent support, but those in shared parenting arrangements cannot access this. Now they\u2019ve stood there and they\u2019ve lauded this aspect of the bill, and they\u2019ve said, \u201COh, but it\u2019s so unfair.\u201D Now, if you split the family up and one parent has custody of two children and the other parent has custody of two children, well they should avail themselves of this. Why didn\u2019t they then change it to allow for those in shared parenting arrangements to avail themselves of that as well? Why not actually keep the family together and ensure that we\u2019re not actually forcing families to split their children up, just to avail themselves of this? Why didn\u2019t you do it the other way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EBut regardless of all that, what we on this side of the House actually find disingenuous\u2014and that\u2019s a word that\u2019s been bandied about by members opposite as well\u2014is this: members opposite claimed that this was a policy-neutral rewrite. But was it, though? Because they snuck in all these things. They snuck in all these absolutely punitive measures. They snuck in the fact that what they wanted to really do was to write into legislation their social investment approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EAt that point, let me bring in a part of one submitter\u2019s submission. I\u2019m going to read that out in a bit, because it\u2019s absolutely worth listening to. It\u2019s the bit about the social investment approach. It\u2019s about enshrining that in legislation, in a rather sneaky manner, that we object to. We\u2019ve consistently objected to that, and we continue to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThis was a submission from E t\u016B, and I quote: \u201CUnfortunately\u201D\u2014[Interruption] Well, yes, they are the largest private sector union, with 55,000 members. If you want to turn your noses up at that, that\u2019s your call. But this was their submission: \u201CUnfortunately, the Ministry of Social Development has an Investment approach that seems to focus solely on the cost of people receiving a benefit and to focus on investing in employment and work readiness services and supports to reduce the long term costs within [the] Vote Social Development [budget].\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThey then go on to point out, quite rightly, that this is about reducing the people of New Zealand to a financial cost\u2014\u201Cfuture liabilities that need to be dealt with.\u201D That is the social investment approach that members opposite laud. It goes on to say: \u201COften people go on benefits through circumstances that no-one would wish on another: redundancies, death of partners, relationship breakup, unexpected pregnancy, ill-health, mental illness, to name a few. These are not future liabilities that need to be reduced within a budget line. These are people that are hurting, are stressed, and need to be treated with dignity and we help them get back to being in a position to help themselves.\u201D That is what a true investment approach would look like, but instead it was this whole limiting of liabilities that members opposite wanted to enshrine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe public scrutiny of legislation has come up. Again, members opposite, multiple members, have gone on and on about this and pointed to the fact that\u2014I don\u2019t know what they pointed to, but they were trying to make out that we didn\u2019t agree with the public scrutiny of legislation. Can I just point out that this bill, when it went through select committee, received 121 submissions\u201452 of them wanted to be heard. But the time was reduced to six weeks. When those of us on this side of the House were in Opposition we pushed for that to be given an extension, so that members of the public had more than six weeks to submit on a bill of such substance. But did they agree? No\u2014it was truncated. The submission period was truncated by the former Government to actually shut people out. And then when those who came to submit actually submitted, were they heard? No. The submissions fell on deaf ears. Did they change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EDo they understand what \u201Cpolicy-neutral\u201D means? We\u2019ve been hit on the head on this side of the House for not including substantive policy in this rewrite, but let me just point out to you: this was supposed to be policy-neutral. It was your former Government that snuck in bits of substantive policy; now, when we remove it, you slam us on the head for that? Do you not understand? Do the members opposite not understand what \u201Cpolicy-neutral\u201D actually means?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll end on this point: we\u2019ve heard from members opposite that they\u2019ve been slammed with a Supplementary Order Paper, but others have quoted it. So which one is it? You can\u2019t have it both ways. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022997878b7f6f2404db95869aa2d9e6902\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022997878b7f6f2404db95869aa2d9e6902\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d like to try and have it both ways, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002238ea30b554e7495495af591dc893b0c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238ea30b554e7495495af591dc893b0c9\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill 2016. This was a very sensible piece of legislation. It sought to do very sensible things: to rewrite the Social Security Act 1964 to make it clearer; to deal with some of the inconsistencies; and to make sure that some of the sections, which had been amended as many as 286 times, made sense to members of the public. The Government was doing a good job of it, and then today we get landed with this: a 501-page Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) dumped on us a couple of hours before the second reading\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f60cc12482a2471793e51767d5f1360a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Come on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204024031e39045bcaf9b9337346b9d6c\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: And so we ask ourselves\u2014we ask ourselves: what is so important in this SOP that means that there should be no departmental disclosure statement, that means there should be no regulatory impact statement, and that means there should be no public scrutiny\u2014that there should be no select committee process? We ask ourselves: what is in this SOP that\u2019s so important? Let me answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe really important thing that this SOP has in it is removing something that members on the opposite side of the House say is a terrible, awful thing, and that is this principle in the bill on social investment. The principle, in clause 4(e), reads this way, and I challenge members opposite me to explain to the member of the public why it is bad to say a principle of this legislation should be \u201Cto help achieve the best possible outcome for people at risk of long-term welfare dependency\u201D, and \u201CMSD may identify appropriate assistance, support, and services, under [that] Act, for [these] people.\u201D Now, members opposite us oppose that principle, and so they land on us an SOP that seeks to overturn what is the most sensible policy for ensuring that people are not trapped in lives of long-term welfare dependency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo we ask ourselves: what is it that will come into this bill instead of such a sensible principle? Is it the things that the members opposite have been talking about\u2014things like making sure that people shouldn\u2019t have to name the father of their child? Is it things like ensuring that people in the public shouldn\u2019t have to face too many obligations when they are seeking welfare? Well, we don\u2019t know, because it\u2019s not contained in this bill and it\u2019s not contained in this SOP. But I think we would be right, on this side of the House, to fear that a Government that will land an SOP this big without scrutiny may also seek to remove some of the fundamental principles of this Act in due course, which require people to be in work, which say that being in work is a good thing, that say that paid employment offers the best opportunity for people to achieve social and economic well-being, and that say that that should be our priority. That\u2019s why the principle of social investment was in this bill: because it allows those things to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House we proudly support those principles, and we oppose Government members landing SOPs like this that do not further the bill, that are not for the betterment of New Zealanders, and that defy common sense. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2fb596a64e044ce8727daa8c43f2569\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2fb596a64e044ce8727daa8c43f2569\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO (Minister for Pacific Peoples):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Deputy Speaker, the Hon Carmel Sepuloni has had to table 500 Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs)\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4309021a7db4b1fa2b90abfe9b82297\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: 500 pages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b78fa133b2ee4228b666d401944beb76\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: Five hundred pages. Five hundred pages\u2014sorry\u2014of Supplementary Order Paper to amend and remove the punitive measures that that particular Government, now in Opposition, had introduced, when this bill was supposed to be policy-neutral. So the question is: what is being policy-neutral?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI would draw your attention to the original Social Security Act of 1938, where the overarching purpose of that is set out in the preamble of the legislation, and it reads: \u201CAn Act to provide for the Payment of Superannuation Benefits and of other Benefits designed to safeguard the People of New Zealand from Disabilities arising from Age, Sickness, Widowhood, Orphanhood, Unemployment, or other Exceptional [Circumstances]; \u2026 and, further, to provide \u2026 other Benefits as may be necessary to maintain and promote the Health and General [Well-being] of the Community.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the policy setting that should have remained and should remain right throughout this process, but the Opposition changed it, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re resetting tonight. Furthermore, the underlying principle of the Act said that every citizen had a right to a reasonable standard of living and that it was a community responsibility to ensure that its members were safeguarded against the economic ills from which they could not protect themselves. That\u2019s what needs to remain constant throughout the rewrite that we\u2019re doing on this legislation, but that Opposition, when they were in Government, changed all that. They introduced punitive measures which weren\u2019t about helping and supporting those in need; they were about punishing them. They were about forcing them into things that they had no control over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThis new Government will now continue this work because it is significant work, and because when we were in Opposition we objected to that previous form. This new Government\u2019s vision is for a welfare system that ensures people have an adequate income and standard of living, are treated with and can live in dignity, and are able to participate meaningfully in their communities. Progressing the rewrite bill now will provide a solid legislative platform to undertake the overhaul of the welfare system, and will assist users of the social security system. I want to acknowledge the Hon Carmel Sepuloni, a new Minister with a huge portfolio. She\u2019s come in and seen the mess that that previous Government has left, so she\u2019s gotten to work and this is the result. It will pass\u2014it will pass\u2014because if I had a bucket, that bucket would be filled with the crocodile tears that I\u2019ve heard time and time again from that Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EYou see, the underlying principle of the 1938 Act was also carried through in the 1964 Act, and this is what one of the\u2014during the neutral rewrite of the 1938 Act, in the Minister of Social Security\u2019s first reading speech, that Minister said \u201CThe present Act, which is nearly 26 years old, has been amended approximately 30 times and is extremely difficult to follow, both by the general public and by those whose responsibility it is to administer the Act. For that reason alone the Government thinks a consolidation is well overdue.\u201D In 1964, the Social Security Act had 135 sections; it\u2019s now since grown to over 500 sections, with only four remaining unchanged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EWhy do we need to rewrite the Act? The 1964 Act is long overdue for a rewrite, and the Social Security Act 1964 is one of the most important pieces of New Zealand legislation. It sets out the financial support available to people who aren\u2019t able to fully support themselves and their families, and the rewrite bill will make social security legislation easier for people to navigate, use, and understand. But I think, more importantly, it\u2019s about delivering the help and support to those who are less fortunate than many of us and to those whose situation is because of things that are out of their control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI draw your attention to the Social Services Committee, when they received the bill in the first instance, and the select committee made a useful contribution in identifying areas where the bill could be further tidied up. The committee responded to a submission by practice nurses who want to make life easier for the patients who consult them. The changes prompted by that submission will save patients from having to wait for a further appointment with a doctor before they can have the documentation they need for their benefit assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t know what it is that that other side in the Opposition keep harping on about as if their rewrite, in the initial stages, was truly neutral. It wasn\u2019t neutral. If it was neutral, we wouldn\u2019t be having this debate at all. The fact that you\u2019ve got 500 pages introduced by the Minister is evidence that there is a lot of work to be able to bring the legislation back to what it was originally set up to do, and that is to be able to safeguard the people of New Zealand from disabilities arising from age, sickness, widowhood, orphanhood, and unemployment and, further, to provide other benefits as may be necessary to maintain and promote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EIn no other time has it ever been more important than now. Because of the circumstances that many in this country of ours face after nine years of neglect, it is now more critical that the rewrite takes place and that we remove what the previous Government had done by setting the course into something that the framers of the 1938 Act had never envisioned. I don\u2019t know how it is that members on that side could get up in this House and talk about what they had done by grounding our safety net, which is what I call our social welfare system, into an instrument where they can hold up punitive measures to punish people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EHow do you encourage somebody that is unable to find a job? [Interruption] Sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker. How does one encourage somebody that is in a desperate situation\u2014a solo parent, young children to feed\u2014when that previous Government would tell those people, \u201CIf you don\u2019t find a job, we will cut your benefit. If you don\u2019t get an interview, we will deem it that you are not genuine about looking for a job.\u201D? That\u2019s the kind of goings-on under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292fe2238a6b545c2a532fa4c36484adc\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What a load of rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcb1c2dc59504ce7b199eea37c9b3a4e\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: That member might say it\u2019s a load of crap, but it isn\u2019t. That member, that member most of all\u2014how sad it is that that member, who should know better, would say something like that in this House? I\u2019m ashamed that he\u2019s a member of this House, because a lot of people think that he would be defending the needy, the poor, the orphaned, the disabled, and those who are widowed, but he doesn\u2019t\u2014he doesn\u2019t. He pretends he does, but he doesn\u2019t. Certainly, that kind of commentary should reveal to his constituency that he\u2019s all talk but he can\u2019t deliver, and for nine long years he associated himself with a Government that didn\u2019t have a heart, that didn\u2019t show any kindness whatsoever to the very people that they now pretend to be defending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EAs I said, if I had a bucket, it would be filled with the kind of crocodile tears that I\u2019ve heard over and over again from the members of that side. Shame on them. Shame on them if they\u2019re now going to be supporting this. They disguise their rhetoric by saying it was a neutral rewrite, but we now know better: 500 pages\u2014500 pages to redo and rewrite the damage that they were trying to cause to this country. Shame on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EAmendments recommended by the Social Services Committee by majority agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e3c31cbf058f419e8dc425e4f1c164ee\u0022\u003EBrokering (Weapons and Related Items) Controls Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a22b397abb52416a92a6a016b02ec17f\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002276d69496e6e74c649d1b7a6ecd64be9b\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022503354acf9a14c579cdb45874a05743e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022503354acf9a14c579cdb45874a05743e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I rise to take a call in respect of Part 1 of the Brokering (Weapons and Related Items) Controls Bill. I made a contribution in respect of the second reading of this, and, when I read this legislation, I thought that I\u2019d like to have some clarity as to what the effect is of the definition of \u201Cbrokering activity\u201D, which is set out in clause 4 of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn clause 4, it says \u201Chas the meaning set out in section 5\u2019\u201D. Section 5\u2014or clause 5 of the bill, as it is more properly described now\u2014says, \u201CIn this Act, brokering activity (a) means arranging, facilitating, or negotiating a transaction that involves the international transfer of weapons or related items from a place outside New Zealand to another place outside New Zealand; and (b) includes,\u2014(i) in relation to a transaction described in paragraph (a), acting as an agent for a person involved in the transaction or as an intermediary between 2 or more persons involved in the transaction; and\u201D\u2014also includes\u2014\u201C(ii) acquiring or storing weapons or \u2026 items in a place outside [of] New Zealand for the purpose of transferring [those] weapons or related items \u2026 outside [of] New Zealand; but (c) does not include the provision of service that is merely ancillary to [that] \u2026 (for example, the provision of administrative, customs broking, or financial services \u2026\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo it seems to me that we\u2019re going after more than the person who is the broker; we\u2019re going for agents of the broker. But I\u2019m just wondering, as I read this, what level of involvement is required on the part of a New Zealander in order for them to be found an agent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, one of the reasons why this is important is that this is an unusual piece of legislation in that it grants New Zealand courts the ability to prosecute New Zealanders for their actions outside of New Zealand. As I\u2019ve already said, this also includes the facilitating or negotiating of transactions that involve the transfer of weapons outside of New Zealand. My understanding is that that work can, effectively, be done by a New Zealander outside of New Zealand and it will still be caught within the New Zealand criminal code, because, of course, a breach of this legislation carries with it penalties, which are set out in other parts of the Act. But, in order for that to happen, you have to be caught as being someone who is involved in a brokering activity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis includes dual-use goods, and there\u2019s some complexity around this. So I would be grateful if the Minister could explain\u2014not immediately, but before the end of this debate\u2014what level of involvement is required for you to be seen to be an agent. I don\u2019t see that specifically. I know this is legislation that the Minister has inherited from the prior Government and that it\u2019s been well considered by the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, but as I read the legislation I wasn\u2019t clear what, in practice, would amount to that level of activity that would be caught by the bill. I know that there will have been some actual examples, probably, given by officials to the select committee as to what amounts to involvement that would be sufficient to bring this into play.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn the one minute and fifty-nine, fifty-eight\u2014in the minute or so that I have available, I would also look to see whether we could also have some clarity as to what dual-use goods means. I understand that goods can have a civilian use but are intended for military end-use and they fall within a specified category. Could we have some indication as to how we\u2019re going to find what is on that specified category? I\u2019m thinking, for example, of global positioning systems. We know that some of the work that, for example, is done with global positioning systems\u2014that that work can be used for a farm purpose or to position a device relative to an orchard, but it can also be used for military purposes. So we\u2019re going to have to have some way in which we practically define that, so that we don\u2019t catch, unintendedly, the things that shouldn\u2019t be caught.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00229a358e76a6e74160baff8d629de59fb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a358e76a6e74160baff8d629de59fb9\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Excellent. Inspired choice for the call, Madam Chair\u2014humble, of course, as well. Look, I\u2019m very pleased to be standing up in this committee stage. I was very pleased to be chairing the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee over the recent weeks and, as I always do, I want to thank the committee members for their work, and in particular the Minister, and the officials as well, who provided us with fantastic advice. I will apologise in advance that some of the questions I ask are as much, I suspect, for the education of the committee and the public than a lack of knowledge myself, because I noted in the second reading speech that this is actually a very good bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe overall context, without taking too much time, is we\u2019re implementing a treaty here to bring into effect an international approach to arms brokering. Really importantly, we\u2019re talking about, effectively, a third party who\u2019s bringing weapons from one group or supplier and getting it to another. So we\u2019re not talking about the selling directly of military weapons made in New Zealand. I mention that because a number of people, as they\u2019ve approached me round this bill, are often questioning why there is nothing in this bill in any of the parts, including within the definitions, of why we\u2019re not mentioning the selling of weapons from New Zealand. Fundamentally, there are other pieces of legislation which deal with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIn terms of Part 1, I\u2019d be interested to hear from the Minister in the chair, Tracey Martin. It\u2019s really a small element, but clause 3 around the purpose\u2014it\u2019s an ordering question to the Minister. The purposes of the proposed Act both make sense. The first is to regulate the brokering of weapons and related items, and the second is to support New Zealand\u2019s commitments under the Arms Trade Treaty. It\u2019s probably a pedantic element, but why\u2019s it in that order? I mean, in effect, this is an Arms Trade Treaty. Is that not the first purpose to bring about in this bill\u2014to make sure we are good international citizens and that, as a consequence, New Zealand wishes to regulate the brokering of weapons and related items? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a small item. It wasn\u2019t something which the committee spent a lot of time discussing but it\u2019s\u2014I suppose, again, when we look at the catalyst, Minister, for this bill, it was a treaty that was signed, I think, in New York a few years back. I\u2019m sorry that the date slips my mind. You may be able to elucidate further for the benefit of the committee. But we are reacting to an international treaty. So it\u2019s a simple point, but why has the Minister continued to allow paragraphs (a) and (b) of clause 3 to be in the order that they are?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe speaker that just resumed his seat, David Parker, did begin to pick up some really interesting points around brokering activities. Really importantly in the bill, this starts within clause 4, the interpretation clause, and then points to clause 5 around the meaning of brokering activities. As I indicated at the start, what we\u2019re discussing here\u2014and perhaps the best way is just purely to illustrate it\u2014is a New Zealand citizen who, for example, is buying weaponry from Russia and selling it to Syria. That is what this bill attempts to capture and to stop. Well, I suppose an element which would be useful from the Minister, if time allows, is just to elucidate what is and is not noted as brokering activity\u2014just how wide does that go? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe definitions are quite clear, I think. I think the select committee was relatively confident in them, but it\u2019s always a welcome opportunity when we have the committee of the whole House to hear the Minister in charge of the bill, or a representative of the Minister in charge of the bill, to go into a little bit of depth. As the bill\u2014the proposed Act\u2014states in clause 5, brokering includes \u201Carranging, facilitating, or negotiating a transaction that involves the international transfer of weapons\u201D. So, again, we\u2019re not expecting that a New Zealand citizen is the one necessarily picking up said items. It could just simply be, I\u2019m assuming, facilitating activity online, be that through email or, God forbid, some sort of TradeMe equivalent in foreign arms. In fact, I shouldn\u2019t be surprised, actually\u2014one thinks of the dark net. We can think of a number of ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s really just to give surety to the committee, if the Minister would, through the officials, talk about whether the definition of brokering activity\u2014being \u201Carranging, facilitating, or negotiating\u201D\u2014is full enough and captures it. I think we don\u2019t want, as a committee, to fall in to the traps of a hole. We\u2019ve even just seen in the paper today a small element around the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment where someone has missed out on payments. These are oversights which happen, so just some surety there would be most welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIn clause 4 within Part 1 there\u2019s also the whole question\u2014[Bell rung] Gosh, such enthusiasm from the other side\u2014look, it\u2019s fantastic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI would just want to end, if I could, this contribution around the question of dual-use goods. Again it\u2019s been lightly touched on by the Hon David Parker, who has just resumed his seat. A bit more elucidation from the Minister would be useful, probably, at this stage, just for that broader understanding of the committee. Not all items which are made are purely for military purposes. I mean, the most simple example, of course, is when we manufacture firearms. I\u2019m not sure\u2014although it would be interesting, Minister, if you could tell the committee\u2014that anyone in New Zealand is manufacturing firearms. You can make a firearm, obviously, for the purposes of war but firearms can also be used, as is quite appropriate at the moment, for a bit of duck shooting. It\u2019s similar too with guidance chips. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EObviously, we have a very successful company in New Zealand, Raycom, which makes guidance chips, which are particularly of use in joint direct attack munition bombs, if my knowledge serves me right, but also these chips can be used for other guidance services. One only does need to think of global positioning systems and so forth. So how exactly is the Minister\u2019s ministry going to delineate between these dual-use goods, because particularly in the brokering space, and we heard this through the select committee, there are those items which it is just abundantly clear that New Zealanders should not be brokering between countries. But once you get into that dual-use area it gets rather complicated. We can see with countries overseas\u2014the likes of Syria come to mind, even North Korea at the moment\u2014that when certain items are being blocked for military purposes it can actually have an impact to the civilian side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo I think the committee would\u2014well, I certainly would and I suspect the committee would\u2014appreciate some greater surety and clarity around how dual-use goods are defined, to give some certainty to us. I\u2019m particularly thinking around the humanitarian side. We don\u2019t want to end up being so tough on the brokering, or the military use of goods, that we are affecting the civilian population. I won\u2019t go into it for too long, but there are enough stories that come out of the international media where various medical devices and products, particularly in the pharmaceutical space, are actually blocked because they supposedly have a military component to them, be it the nature of the drug or the fact that said drug or said medical device could be deployed by, or employed for, military personnel. But the corollary or the flip side to that, of course, is that it can help a civilian. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a very particular point, I have to say. When officials were in front of our committee they gave, I think, a very good explanation around these various dual-use goods but a little bit of elaboration would be good there. I suspect that plays into clause 4(1)(a), following around the whole notion of what is a military end-use, and it is clarified that\u2014I\u2019m pretty sure it is my understanding\u2014it\u2019s not only a specific and singular military use but there are elements which may both have a military and a non-military use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe other elements of the definitions, I think, are relatively clear. In terms of the notions of dual-use goods it really begins to end with clause 4\u2014I\u2019ve lost track. We\u2019re still in clause 4(1), to do with \u201Cstrategic goods list\u201D. I think it\u2019s a really good decision in Supplementary Order Paper 24. Something that we did miss in the select committee is that, of course, we have the Customs and Excise Act being updated, so I think some our previous references were around 1996 and now most of it comes in to play in 2018. So, Minister, I think that\u2019s been a good update from your officials. It\u2019s really important that that Strategic Goods List is publicly available. I don\u2019t believe that\u2019s specifically noted in the\u2014oh, I do apologise; we have added that in. In fact, I\u2019m sure, as I look to my colleague Louisa Wall across the Chamber, there\u2019s an element that we were keen to have, in that here we are noting that the secretary\u2019s required to maintain and to publish that Strategic Goods List.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWhat might be of interest, whether or not the Minister can answer, is how often that will be updated. It wasn\u2019t something the committee prescribed. I\u2019m sure there\u2019s a fairness and a natural justice, but we\u2019re not expecting the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade to be updating the Strategic Goods List every five minutes, but is it going to be every 3 months 6 months, a year? Some sort of indication around that would be quite useful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, I have a few other contributions to make, but I think I\u2019ve left the Minister a number of questions\u2014brokered, if you will\u2014and thoughts in my mind, and I look forward to the response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002209a830e5d1d649d2bbfe5bd3ac6aef05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209a830e5d1d649d2bbfe5bd3ac6aef05\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for picking me from such a great array of possible speakers, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EMr Simon O\u2019Connor\u2019s been talking about the dual-use goods list, and I will just touch on that very briefly, because, of course, the Strategic Goods List does set out exactly what the dual-use goods are\u2014that is that everything after about page 30 falls into the dual-use goods. But in terms of that list, I would put to the Minister in the chair, Tracey Martin, whether there are satisfactory controls around that list, because as the bill says in the definition section, that list may be added to by a Gazette notice. Now, that, as I understand it, is a departmental decision and not a ministerial one. It is a very significant move to put something on that dual goods list, because people may be dealing in those items without realising that they have a military application. But, as we work through the legislation, we can see that the consequences of doing that are very significant. We know that people don\u2019t tend to want to fall foul of the law through ignorance, but it does seem that it would be possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe Gazette notice is a disallowable instrument, but I would put it to the Minister that perhaps\u2014I\u2019d be interested in the Minister\u2019s response as to whether that alone is a satisfactory protection. This will be a significant part of a network of legislation we have both in New Zealand and elsewhere in terms of arms control. As Mr O\u2019Connor noted, it\u2019s implementing the Arms Trade Treaty, and that is very, very important. Minister Parker also identified the question about what a brokering activity is, and whilst he looked at the activity itself, I would inquire as to whether, in fact, the cross-border nature of that definition is in fact appropriate, because the definition requires the international transfer of weapons. So if we\u2019re going to be engaged in some way in brokering international transfer, we need to be registered and have a permit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EMy concern is intranational transfers of weapons\u2014that is to say a transfer of weapons which might occur entirely within a conflict zone like Afghanistan or Syria. Now, borders in those areas are so very porous that there\u2019s a very good argument to say that that is a transfer and a brokering transaction, which should be regulated. Even though it happens entirely within one country\u2019s national borders, there\u2019s a very good argument to say that it should be regulated by the law of the State of the citizen who\u2019s undertaking that transaction, because we know that the law of Syria or the law of Afghanistan\u2014the civil society is not functioning in those jurisdictions, and that\u2019s when we need to stand up and undertake our international duty. So, I would ask the Minister to consider the international transfer of weapons and whether it should, in fact, be any transfer of weapons in a foreign State or across a foreign State\u2019s borders, for that very reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other question is overseas equivalent regimes\u2014so if a person is complying with an overseas regime, that is, in fact, a defence to any charge and you\u2019re considered to be complying with it. The question is: what is an equivalent overseas regime? Obviously, it\u2019s not going to be a mirror regime. In fact, our Strategic Goods List is a lot longer and a lot more extensive than a lot of other strategic goods lists in less-developed countries. So, in terms of that equivalent overseas regime, does it just mean a loose brokering and permitting regime, or does it mean a fully fledged and robust regime which, essentially, tracks our own legislation in quite a close way? There is a danger. There is the danger of finding the weakest link. So the difficulty is that arms brokers will simply look for the jurisdiction with the weakest regulatory regime and comply with that. If that happens, that\u2019s really going to undermine to the Arms Trade Treaty and everything that New Zealand is aiming for. So that\u2019s a further question I would ask the Minister to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00225fbad95b6e554618be4f5751856b8f89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fbad95b6e554618be4f5751856b8f89\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak to this bill and to be a part of this debate. I think it\u2019s interesting to look at the concerns that MPs brought to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, how that was shaped by the select committee, whether there were still concerns at the end of the process, and how that aligned with the various submitters. I think if we look across some of the party positions\u2014we heard my colleague David Parker speak a moment ago about his initial concerns and clearly still raising some of them with the Minister around dual use, and, in fact, he raised that at the first reading. Now, at that time, we were all actually working through the Rocket Lab legislation, and so we were doing parallel legislation, looking at dual-purpose situations\u2014particularly GPS, as he\u2019s mentioned. Although, I would note that one of the submitters also raised the question around drones and what the position with drones would be\u2014clearly, some could be for sport but some might also have a military basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI think the question\u2019s been put to the Minister: does the legislation correctly address this? I think we\u2019ve heard the chair of the select committee talk to recommendation (b), clause 4(2), that does provide some clarity around dual use, but I think there is some work for the Minister to do there. I think Barry Coates also brought some concerns initially to the committee\u2014some of them, I think, have been addressed in the committee process, some not. More specifically, Barry raised the question around whether mercenaries should be included in this sort of legislation. Now, I wasn\u2019t privileged to be part of this committee, but I have had a brief look through and I don\u2019t see that addressed. Maybe it\u2019s outside the scope, or it\u2019s something new that hasn\u2019t subsequently been addressed, and maybe the Minister in the chair, Tracey Martin, could talk to that also.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIf we then go across to the other party who I would mention, New Zealand First, Ron Mark was very emphatic as he came to select committee as to what his position was. He said in the House that, basically, this should be an amendment to the Customs and Excise Act, and I think his words were \u201CWhat sort of palaver and waste of time is this?\u201D It\u2019s kind of interesting, now that it\u2019s in the name of his leader, Winston Peters, that suddenly the member is quiet on that. Be that as it may, that was certainly what he brought to the first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI think if we look at the nine submitters, there are a wide range of submitters. I think their submissions, as I looked at them, were thoughtful. They did raise questions that the officials needed to go away and work on. As we look at the recommendations that come from the select committee, as we interpret them, they seem to be addressing relatively well the concerns of the submitters. I think the recommendations are clear. I think the points we\u2019ve heard raised\u2014again from David Parker\u2014around dual use do need just a little bit further clarification, but, otherwise, I thought, as the chair of the select committee had said, that most of the work was pretty straightforward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESo, there are a few points for the Minister to talk to. Again, I\u2019m interested to know if New Zealand First are assuaged by this\u2014with their vehement opposition to the first reading, did the select committee process change or help that? Are the Greens feeling that in Barry Coates\u2019 absence the select committee addressed his questions around mercenaries, as well? I\u2019d be very interested to hear that sort of response from the Minister, as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00221e81649848d24e6bb01183ed7030a8e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e81649848d24e6bb01183ed7030a8e8\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to address, or try to address, some of the questions raised by the honourable members: in the first instance, if I can just pick up on Mr Simon O\u2019Connor\u2019s question with regard to the order of the purposes: \u201C(a) regulate the brokering of weapons and related items; and (b) support New Zealand\u2019s commitments under the Arms Trade Treaty.\u201D Mr O\u2019Connor requested an explanation as to why they were in that order\u2014for example, he suggested that that order should, in fact, be reversed because, in his view, this bill was here, in reality, to merely enforce the Arms Trade Treaty. My response to Mr O\u2019Connor\u2019s question is that, in the first instance, we tend to give items priority that affect New Zealand and what we are doing inside a New Zealand context. So when we regulate, we regulate inside the New Zealand context, and that is why clause 3(a) is \u201Cregulate the brokering of weapons and related items\u201D. In the second instance, this is a supporting mechanism for a trade treaty and an arms trade treaty, as Mr O\u2019Connor quite rightly pointed out, but we would always put first what it is that we are doing inside our own nation, because, obviously, the members of this House are here to serve this nation in the first instance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EIf I go on to Mr Parker\u2019s questions\u2014and Mr O\u2019Connor\u2019s, I think, also; actually, I think every member has asked for a greater understanding of dual-use goods\u2014dual-use goods are those goods that are included, as we have heard, in New Zealand\u2019s Strategic Goods List (SGL). That is available online, Mr O\u2019Connor, if you\u2019d like to Google it with \u201Cstrategic goods list\u201D and then possibly put \u201CNZ\u201D at the end of it. You won\u2019t get Singapore\u2019s; you\u2019ll actually get ours. That is maintained by the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade under the regime established by section 56(2) of the Customs and Excise Act 1996. This will be covered by section 96 of the new Customs and Excise Act, should Mr O\u2019Connor wish to look it up. In short, it\u2019s called the SGL, and the SGL includes dual-use items listed by four international export control regimes that New Zealand participates in. The list is updated yearly, for those who asked when it was to be done. As an example of the types of things that you will find, should you go to have a look at the dual-use goods: nuclear reactors are on the dual-use list; chemicals of many different sorts, because they have two purposes, Mr O\u2019Connor. You can either make them to harm someone, or you can use them to actually create something that helps people. Control rods: a variety of control rods are actually on that list. Cryogenic heat exchangers would be another example of something that is on the dual-use list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThere are some other questions that I do have from members. I will continue to try to get that advice for you as the debate goes on, but I hope, in the first instance, that has given some confidence to Mr Parker and to Mr O\u2019Connor that there is nothing untoward, nothing scary, with regard to the piece of legislation. I hope that they have a clearer understanding of the two issues that they raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u002284b6a8cd41ff48e799f3ff9a507177c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284b6a8cd41ff48e799f3ff9a507177c3\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to the Minister in the chair, Tracey Martin, for that explanation; it is helpful. I know, certainly in my own electorate, of two manufacturers that supply military equipment which could easily be classed as dual-use\u2014for example, mounts for weapons that go up on to a helicopter. Now, if any layperson saw those, they would have no idea that they have a military use. My concern would be if people were unwittingly buying those goods and then shifting them off overseas, how are the people who are those manufacturers captured by the bill? I\u2019m for the bill; I\u2019ve got no concerns about that. I just want to make sure we\u2019re not spilling over and catching people who are quite innocently going about their business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI also have another business within my electorate that supplies and fits out specialist boats for special services. They also could be bought, in parts, and retrofitted to another use, a military use, in another country. That could easily be a brokered deal. I know they are not the broker, and supposedly not captured in this bill, but they could be part of the chain of the deal. That\u2019s how these deals are done, often, these days. You don\u2019t need to be the person holding the goods, necessarily, to be a part of that chain. So I would like some assurance around that from the officials, perhaps, if the Minister doesn\u2019t have those to hand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBut I do note, on the dual-use thing, that it is pretty broad, and, you know, one could imagine boots, for example, being dual-use goods that could be quite innocently also used. I see in the clause in the bill related to the definition that \u201Cmilitary end-use means\u2014(a) incorporation into military items that fall within a specified category; or (b) use, production, or testing of equipment and components for the development, production, or maintenance of military items that fall within a specified category; or (c) use of any unfinished products for the production of military items that fall within a specified category.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI guess that\u2019s the bit\u2014particularly that last bit, \u201Cunfinished products\u201D\u2014where you have a known manufacturer that can build components that are quite specialised and could be ordered in isolation, and the manufacturer may not know that that\u2019s going to be utilised as a mount for a military aircraft, for military weapons which could be used for sinister use. So how does that work for that specific manufacturer, and are they captured by this bill? I mean, the bill is laudable in its intentions, and I think we will get there, but we just have to ensure that we aren\u2019t catching or capturing people who are going about their ordinary, lawful business with no sinister intent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s no doubt at all that all of the conflicts in the world that are fought by terrorists and, sort of, quasi-armies\u2014they get hold of their weapons somehow. This bill is trying to ensure that we, on our shores, have our laws squared away so that we are not a part of that problem. Meeting our treaty obligations is obviously very important in an international sense, and it\u2019s great to see that New Zealand First have come along on this, because I note from Mr Mark\u2019s speech from August in 2017 that, and I quote, \u201CThe peaceniks in the other parties loved the opportunity to dance around the maypole, sing Kumbaya and bag our boutique defence industry but not us.\u201D So I\u2019m wondering how long it took Mr Mark to learn to sing \u201CKumbaya\u201D and to dance around the maypole. I would actually pay to see that. So, with that, Madam Chair, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00229f69194d41344335944021f357c5743f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f69194d41344335944021f357c5743f\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to try and give some confidence around the definition of brokering, that has been asked for by several members: clause 5 defines brokering activity as \u201Carranging, facilitating, or negotiating a transaction that involves the international transfer of weapons or related items from [one foreign country to another].\u201D The definition includes a person who acts as an agent or intermediary for persons involved in the transaction, and someone who acquires or stores items outside New Zealand. Persons who provide services that are merely auxiliary to brokering activity are excluded. The purpose of regulating brokering is to prevent the movement of arms and military items to illegitimate users and undesirable destinations. It was considered appropriate to regulate those who have knowledge of the destination and end use of the weapons and related items. In a brokered transaction, that would most likely be the broker, including a person who acts as an agent or an intermediary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EClause 5 of the bill has a definition of brokering which means \u201Carranging, facilitating, or negotiating a transaction that involves the international transfer of weapons or related items from a place outside New Zealand to another place outside New Zealand\u201D and includes \u201Cacting as an agent for a person involved in the transaction or as an intermediary between 2 or more persons involved in the transaction\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe member who just contributed, Stuart Smith, mentioned boots and that he felt that the list that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade put together around dual use was rather diverse and possibly very wide, and he suggested that boots, for example, might be included because they have dual purposes. I have some confidence\u2014I haven\u2019t been through the whole list\u2014that boots are not included on the list. I\u2019m not sure the last time that a terrorist act was committed with a boot, although there was a shoe on a plane\u2014there was a shoe on a plane. I would suggest that it would be the chemicals inside the shoe that are probably on the dual list. So I think therein lies the distinction. There needed to be another body of something to be added to that particular thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EGoods either have to be military or on the dual-use goods list, and items such as boots\u2014oh, there you go, I\u2019ve had it confirmed. They are not on the list. They must be identified as military. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00224ae3fd4a48444b98a86d7f7cfd2452a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ae3fd4a48444b98a86d7f7cfd2452a0\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m delighted to take a call on this. There are a couple of issues that have been touched on a little bit by some of my colleagues this evening, but I really want to speak to them a little more and find out a little more from the Minister about them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe first is an issue that was raised by my colleague Dr Webb, and that\u2019s the equivalent overseas regime. There\u2019s a specific definition of it in clause 6 of the bill. As far as I can tell, an overseas regime is a regime that is roughly similar to the regime here in New Zealand, but the bit that I find very interesting in this is not just the idea that we might look for a roughly equivalent regime overseas, but someone has to make a judgment as to which regime is roughly similar, and in this case it\u2019s the secretary\u2014so that\u2019s the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade. I found that quite interesting because, I guess, the secretary is\u2014her or his performance in their job is subject to review by the State Services Commissioner. Of course, they are appointed for a limited period of time, so what they do or don\u2019t do in their job is subject to that kind of review as well. But I found it interesting that it is the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade who makes the judgment as to what is an equivalent overseas regime. I would ordinarily have expected that it perhaps might be the Minister who made that decision. Even if it was on the advice of the secretary, it might have been the Minister who is ordinarily the person who is held responsible for those decisions. So I\u2019m sure there\u2019s a good reason for why the particular decision rests with the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade rather than with the Minister, but I would be very interested to hear what that reason is so that I could understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI mean, it\u2019s not unusual. It does happen in other legislation as well. We know that the Income Tax Act and the Tax Administration Act are full of references to the commissioner, who has a lot of discretion, but in this particular instance I really would like to know just exactly why that discretion has been shifted to the secretary. So that was the first aspect of this particular part of the bill that I would like to get some clarification on\u2014just that little bit around the equivalent overseas regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe other bit that I find very interesting in this first part of the bill is who or what the bill applies to. I\u2019m looking in particular at new clause 3A(1), and this has been inserted at the select committee stage of the process. So it\u2019s obviously something that was very important, was raised by submitters to the bill, and that people wanted to see something going on here in the bill. I didn\u2019t sit on that select committee so I don\u2019t exactly know what the reasoning was. What it says is that \u201CThis Act applies to any brokering activity that is carried out\u2014(a) in any place (\u2026 wholly or partially outside New Zealand [possibly]) and by a person\u2014(i) who is in New Zealand or; (ii) who is a New Zealand citizen or ordinarily resident in New Zealand\u201D. Now, that\u2019s kind of interesting, because, ordinarily, if a New Zealand citizen commits some offence overseas, we normally rely on the other regime to prosecute them. We don\u2019t try to prosecute New Zealand citizens for offences they\u2019ve performed overseas. But in this particular instance, we are saying that a New Zealand citizen, no matter where she or he actually commits the offence against the Act\u2014we\u2019re asking that they nevertheless be held accountable in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, again, there are some equivalent sorts of laws. Actually, the ones that always come to mind for me are ones involving people who rape children overseas, and they can be held responsible under our laws here. So that\u2019s the equivalent sort of thing. So I want to know why this has got that particular parallel in this law, that even if the offence is performed overseas we might nevertheless choose to prosecute it here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d really appreciate it if the Minister was able to just provide a little bit of enlightenment as to those two particular issues. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2dd14114a2640e98dc322d41a4121c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2dd14114a2640e98dc322d41a4121c0\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Kia orana. I wonder if you would indulge me just for 20 seconds, Madam Chair, as a Waikato member of Parliament, to acknowledge that today the House stood to honour the memory of two Waikato members of Parliament, the Hon Katherine O\u2019Regan and Tony Steel, who both died last week. I had the privilege of attending Katherine O\u2019Regan\u2019s funeral in Te Awamutu this afternoon, as did many former members of this House and some current ones. It was a beautiful service. Her memory was clearly upheld in a very appropriate way, and I know that she commanded respect across this House. I thank members opposite for the kind comments that they have made. I want to say how proud she would have been today of her extended family, and, as I say, it was a great privilege to be there. Madam Chair, thank you for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI have to say that as we return our consideration to Part 1 of this bill, it\u2019s been fascinating to see so many members opposite, including Ministers and an under-secretary, all clamouring to take a call on this particular bill. I can only speculate as to why that might be, but it is, of course, a very significant and important measure. It should be noted that it was a measure introduced by the Hon Gerry Brownlee when he was a senior Minister in the previous Government. Others have already noted that it was something that was derided by one of the parties in this House, but it is good to see that there is a great deal of consensus around it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ECould I commend the Minister who is currently in the chair, the Hon Tracey Martin, for her willingness to engage so fully in this debate and to take the call on a couple of occasions now. I know that she has been ably assisted by some officials, as is often the case when people are in the position she is, but it is an important aspect of committee debates in this House that members are able to ask questions and, wherever possible, the Minister does his or her level best to answer them. So could I say to Mrs Martin, who inferred to me recently that I had gone off her Christmas card list, that I hope that by genuinely praising her for what she has endeavoured to do over the last 20 minutes or so, maybe I\u2019ll get back on to it, because in the grand scheme of things, I would much rather be onside with her then offside with her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut I also want to commend the member just to my right, the member for T\u0101maki, Simon O\u2019Connor, who does an excellent job in chairing our Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee and who has steered this bill to this point\u2014yes, he\u2019s getting his credit card out, and I have to say I\u2019d prefer cash; I\u2019m not so sure about the member\u2019s card. But he has done an excellent job as the chair of this committee in steering this bill through the stages it\u2019s gone through. The submissions were broadly supportive but also helpful, and I think that he has guided us, as have the officials who have assisted the committee, to bring back a bill that is even more fit for purpose and, as I\u2019ve said, is a very significant measure on an international security issue that all like-minded countries need to ensure we are responding to appropriately. The brokering of weapons is something that, if mishandled or if inadequately controlled, could have devastating consequences, both in this country and abroad. So I am glad that members have understood its significance and have worked hard to ensure that we are playing our part as responsible global citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve mentioned, several Ministers and members have already asked questions, and I imagine that the Minister in the chair will continue to try to answer some of those. It would be interesting to hear from her why her colleague the former deputy leader for New Zealand First took such a disparaging view of this bill and, as was mentioned earlier, spoke of the peaceniks in the other parties loving their opportunity to dance around the maypole and sing \u201CKumbaya\u201D, because that, frankly, is a totally inappropriate remark to make about such a significant issue, and, perhaps less facetiously, he had said just nine months ago that this bill isn\u2019t necessary. Well, quite clearly, now members of this House have concluded that it is, and as we move into later parts in this committee stage of the debate, we\u2019ll look in more detail at some of its specific provisions. But here, as we look at the purpose of the bill in Part 1, it would be interesting to know why that was the view of the New Zealand First Party before the election and what has caused them to change their heart now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8cceab478fe4f898bf885836f330cd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8cceab478fe4f898bf885836f330cd7\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the honourable member Tim Macindoe for his contribution. I\u2019ve just had some thank-you cards printed up; I may send him one just to acknowledge it. Can I just remark though, too, that I was a previous deputy leader of New Zealand First and I\u2019ve never danced around a maypole, particularly not on this particular piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ECan I refer to Mr Stuart Smith\u2019s comments that people involved in the development of products that can have a military use are encouraged to engage with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) to clarify the extent to which their items may be subject to controls. It\u2019s better to check than be caught out. Not all brokering or export of such products will be prevented. The goal here is to regulate the brokering to ensure that items do not fall into undesirable hands, so we would encourage those who have not done so already to contact MFAT and actually just run through that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EIf I can address the member from my right, Deborah Russell, who asked about equivalent overseas regimes and why it is that the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade is the person exercising that particular power\u2014which is not really a power, but if I just describe what it is: \u201Cequivalent overseas regimes\u201D means regimes imposed by those countries which are members of the four export control regimes, all of which use the same list of military and dual-use goods. The regimes are the Missile Technology Control Regime, Nuclear Suppliers Group, Australia Group, and Wassenaar Arrangement on Export Controls for Conventional Arms and Dual-Use Goods and Technologies. The judgment of equivalent regimes is based on countries who have been accepted as members of a regime after meeting various criteria, and through analysis of the capability of that regime. So the secretary of foreign affairs, therefore, is not really exercising any particular discretion at all. It\u2019s a process that goes through, and they merely get to be the person who has to ensure that that process has gone through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EIf we can talk about extraterritorial jurisdictions, which I believe was also raised by the member, there is a need to control the actions of New Zealanders and New Zealand entities wherever they act, because of the cross-border nature of brokering and the need to work with other countries to prevent it. And quite rightly, as that member pointed out, these sorts of powers also apply to money-laundering, they apply to child sexual assault and some other quite nasty things, and I would suggest that the sending of weapons and other things that do harm to people is obviously one of those areas where if you are a New Zealander partaking in this sort of behaviour, then we will hold you accountable regardless of where you are. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a878cfe249654d8c8c997f8b5881e32f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a878cfe249654d8c8c997f8b5881e32f\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Kumbaya, Madam Chair; kumbaya, Minister Martin; kumbaya, Mr Macindoe. It\u2019s a real privilege to take a call on this very important piece of legislation, the Brokering (Weapons and Related Items) Controls Bill. I want to speak to a couple of items in Part 1, particularly clauses 3 and 4, where the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has responded to a couple of very well-reasoned submissions. But before leaping into that, I did just want to reflect on the member for T\u0101maki, I think it was, who spoke of Barry Coates, a former member of the House, who participated in the earlier debates on this bill. As I was doing a bit of preparation for this debate, I read Mr Coates\u2019 first reading speech on this bill, and he made the very good point in that speech that what we\u2019re talking about here tonight isn\u2019t actually academic for New Zealand. He pointed to a case in which a person who had a business based on Queen Street, I think it was, ended up, through an entity that he was involved in, possibly wittingly, possibly unwittingly, brokering arms trade between North Korea and Iran, I think it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo the bill that we\u2019re debating is actually a really, really important one, because we as New Zealanders, not only in this Parliament, believe that we should be adhering to treaties of this kind\u2014like the Arms Trade Treaty, which we are signed up to\u2014as a matter of being a good international citizen. I think that most people in this country want to ensure, at an ethical level, that we aren\u2019t in any way whatsoever involving ourselves in some of those awful conflicts around the world that cause mayhem, that cause death, that cause destruction, and that ruin many people\u2019s lives. We should be minimising our involvement in those sorts of conflicts as much as possible, and this bill is a small piece in the wall there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EJust on that point as well, I think the question that the member for T\u0101maki raised then\u2014this relates to Part 1\u2014was \u201CWhy doesn\u2019t the bill specifically address the question of mercenaries?\u201D And I think, actually, if we look in Part 1, clause 3, we just go straight to the purpose of the bill, which is really clear: \u201C(a) regulate the brokering of weapons and related items; and (b) support New Zealand\u2019s commitments under the Arms Trade Treaty.\u201D So the purpose is actually really specifically defined\u2014it is really specifically defined\u2014around preventing brokering. Of course, brokering is not about weapons coming in or out of New Zealand; it\u2019s about people in New Zealand, or connected to New Zealand, facilitating the transfer of weapons between people in other parts of the world, and, quite simply, that is what the bill focuses on. It doesn\u2019t focus on who the people are who might be using them, which might be where you would get a question around mercenaries; it focuses simply on the question of brokering. So it\u2019s a fairly simple and elegant bill there, and it goes to the purpose of the Arms Trade Treaty as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI might note that the Arms Trade Treaty started off, after agitation by people in the peace movement and civil society, way back in the 1980s\u2014people like the Dalai Lama, but I also noticed Jos\u00E9 Ramos-Horta, who, of course, will be familiar to many people in New Zealand as being one of the people involved in the East Timorese independence movement. Of course, he and the people of East Timor were facing violent militias at the time of the independence movement in the 1990s, who were potentially being supplied by arms brokers around the world\u2014so, very relevant there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe two bits of the legislation that I wanted to focus on that have been amended by the committee relate to a couple of very good submissions that we received. The first one was from the New Zealand Law Society and what they noted, having considered the earlier version of the bill. What\u2019s really important about Part 1, and a couple of other speakers have touched on this, is it goes to the jurisdictional issues. This bill is really interesting in that respect, and I think my colleague Deborah Russell mentioned this: that it doesn\u2019t apply just to people in New Zealand doing things in New Zealand; it can apply to people who are ordinarily resident in New Zealand but are overseas engaging in brokering activities, or it could involve New Zealanders or entities connected with New Zealand who are overseas. So the jurisdictional stuff is really important to get right. What the Law Society say in their submission, at 3.4 of their submission is this, \u201CThe jurisdictional scope of the legislation is appropriate, but could be refined in three ways: [1] The territorial scope of the Bill should be defined upfront in Part 1 of the legislation, so that the reach of all of its provisions (including the registration requirements) is made clear;\u201D\u2014and I\u2019ll touch on that in a moment, the detail of that\u2014\u201C[2] It may not be appropriate to extend the Act to persons who are not New Zealanders, who are not ordinarily resident here, and who have not conducted any brokering activities here;\u201D. As far as I could read from the bill, the select committee has decided, in its wisdom, to proceed with that, but nevertheless! And [3] the Law Society says that \u201CThe exemption for employees should be tightened to prevent abuse.\u201D and I think we\u2019ll get on to that in Part 2 of the debate, which is where the select committee has made some changes in that area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s go back to No. 1, which is where the Law Society recommended some changes to\u2014not really disagreeing with the intent of the bill but saying we really, really need to be specific and clear about the territorial scope of the bill. The select committee has responded to that by making amendments to clause 3A(1), which I don\u2019t think you could make all that much clearer, notwithstanding some of the questions that have arisen in this debate. It\u2019s very clear in clause 3A(1): \u201CThis Act applies to any brokering activity that is carried out\u2014(a) in any place (including any brokering activity that is carried out wholly or partially outside New Zealand)\u201D\u2014so we\u2019re going for belts and braces, and I think this was noted, and I think it was the Law Society\u2019s submission as well, that some of the activity here could be quite fractional. So you have a person, potentially in New Zealand, who is engaging in some part of a transaction; you have a person in country B who\u2019s engaging another part; and a person in country C; and one of the risks, if you don\u2019t have the belts and braces approach to this kind of thing, is that each individual activity doesn\u2019t amount to brokering; you\u2019ve got to sort of make the chain. So by having that really clear language in clause 3A(1), it seems to me that we achieved that effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWe then go on to note that it may be a person \u201C(i) \u2026 in New Zealand; or (ii) who is a New Zealand citizen or ordinarily resident in New Zealand; or (iii) that is an entity incorporated or registered under the law of New Zealand;\u201D\u2014so individuals can\u2019t skirt around this by putting these activities into a company or some other kind of organisation. And I think, very importantly, at clause 3A(1)(b) the activity could also be \u201Cwholly or partially on board a ship or an aircraft\u201D, which sounds a little bit like it could be out of a James Bond episode or something. But, once again, we\u2019re going for belts and braces there. So it seems to me that the select committee has actually really picked up on that quite important point about this being very, very specific about the jurisdictional scope and has really got the language right in clause 3A(1) of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe second submission I just wanted to speak to where a consequential change has been made was the letter that was written to the committee by the Regulations Review Committee. I did have to note one thing, though; and, of course, we always look to the Regulations Review Committee as being the committee that needs to be a paragon of exactitude and preciseness in terms of our parliamentary proceedings. In one of their paragraphs, there was quite an amusing typo, actually. It says, \u201CClause 9(1) of the bill imposes requirements on a person to be a registered broke\u201D. I suspect it\u2019s supposed to be a \u201Cbroker\u201D, because a registered broke could be a euphemism for an undischarged bankrupt, and I suspect that\u2019s not who we are getting at. I am pretty sure that in the days in which the Hon Ruth Dyson chaired the Regulations Review Committee, we wouldn\u2019t have had sloppy spelling mistakes like that one slipping into these letters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EBut anyway, the point that the Regulations Review Committee makes is this one. I\u2019ll get straight to the recommendation that they make and then how it\u2019s been followed up by the committee. They recommend that the committee \u201Cconsider amending clause 4(2) of the bill to require the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade to publish a notice on a website administered by the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade and, as the notice will affect items on the strategic goods list, ensure that the notice are published together with the strategic goods list.\u201D I do think this is really, really important, and it links into some of the other submissions and some of the issues that I think we\u2019ll also get to in Part 2, where there were some concerns that were threaded through the, I think, nine submissions that were received: that we have to be a little bit careful in this area; that people who might be caught out by what is quite a serious piece of legislation, which would certainly have serious reputational impacts and, potentially, has serious financial impacts\u2014we have to make sure that the people who might be caught out by it know they have to register, know what the rules are, and that that\u2019s very clear to people. So using a simple piece of technology like ensuring that it\u2019s on the website, is, I think, an extremely important way of ensuring that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s encouraging that we\u2019re making progress on this bill. It goes to something that is, I think, not only about New Zealand\u2019s international reputation; it\u2019s actually an ethical issue about the kind of country that we want to be\u2014the kinds of activities that we deem to be appropriate and ethical, or not\u2014and saying that we\u2019re not actually going to stand for people engaging in activity that could be to the detriment of people in other parts of the world. It seems to me, having had a good look at the submissions and having had a good look at the bar 2 version of the bill that we have before us, that the select committee has engaged really constructively and really sensibly around some of the good submissions that have been made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EOn that note, I think, in line with other members\u2014certainly on this side of the Chamber but, it looks like, more broadly\u2014I certainly commend the bill to the committee as it\u2019s been reported back. Kumbaya\u2014peace out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022b07435fcdd0f4c31809dc3539c6d4dc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b07435fcdd0f4c31809dc3539c6d4dc1\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d just like to start by also supporting Tim Macindoe\u2019s comments around it being good to see the Minister in the chair, Tracey Martin, actually taking calls. I have to say I\u2019m not as worried about being on her Christmas card list. I\u2019m sure she understands why. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI also wanted to actually mention a contribution made by Deborah Russell, because it was a very good one, and she raised a point that I\u2019d still like the Minister to address, which hasn\u2019t been fully addressed. I\u2019m actually going to use a personal example around it, and that is the successful prosecution and conviction of Kiwis that are engaging in offshore transactions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI\u2019m actually really proud of this bill. I think it\u2019s a very good bill, and, as a nation and as a country, we should be proud that we\u2019re taking positive steps towards making sure that we can never be involved in the type of behaviour that\u2019s being talked about tonight around weapons and the harm and the pain that they cause, especially in conflict areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo the example that I want to use\u2014and the Minister can come back and address the issue that was raised by Deborah Russell\u2014is that back in 2004, I was appointed by the interim Government in Iraq to establish what\u2019s called the Provincial Joint Operations Centre. It was the centre that was formed to train\u2014it performed two real functions. The first one was to train all the newly formed Iraqi security forces, so you had the Iraqi Police Service; you had the Iraqi National Guard; you had the tactical support unit, which was, effectively, like our armed offenders squad or our Special Tactics Group; you had the borders and customs police; and you had the facilities protections police, and the Facilities Protection Service was really about guarding critical infrastructure\u2014so the ports, the airports, the port of Umm Qasr, or Khawr az-Zubayr. So we, fundamentally, had five services there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe first function was to deliver all the training to the command element\u2014so that was major rank upwards\u2014and the second role was to provide command and control in an operations centre in terms of coordinating the operations that were going on, particularly in the Basra area but also more widely in the Dhi Qar province.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThere were three real threats that we were dealing with. One was the highly organised criminal gangs that were normally sponsored by the tribes, the second was, obviously, al-Qaeda, and the third was the Mahdi militia, who were led by Muqtada al-Sadr, who is now actually part of the political solution in Baghdad, although you would have seen that there was a riot in Baghdad last summer and it was actually led by Muqtada al-Sadr, and he remains in Parliament. I\u2019m not sure what would happen here if a New Zealand MP was to lead a riot, and I guess that\u2019s why we\u2019re so lucky to be living in the country that we are and having the democracy and the Parliament that we have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo the issue that I raise\u2014and it comes back to the point that Deborah Russell made\u2014was that the biggest threat that these guys were having to deal with when they were out on operations was always coming up against\u2014whether it was a highly organised criminal gang or whether it was al-Qaeda or whether it was the Mahdi militia or one of the militias operating, they were all heavily armed, and they were heavily armed with weapons that weren\u2019t procured with an end use certificate or procured through the normal channels. They were procured on the black market, and obviously, the black market avoids regulation. It doesn\u2019t want to adhere to regulation and rules, and so it\u2019s very hard to police and it\u2019s very hard to shut down when you\u2019re dealing with very porous borders. But the good news is that the international community has become far more organised around it, and we see treaties like the one we\u2019re now legislating to support and we see people like Viktor Bout sitting in a prison in Thailand, which is a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EBut it brings me back to the question and the issue that was raised by Deborah Russell, and that\u2019s\u2014quite simply\u2014if a Kiwi engages with the procurement of weapons overseas and those weapons find themselves in a conflict zone without an end use certificate and without the proper paperwork or the proper process having been adhered to, talk us through how we\u2019re actually going to gather the evidence and how we\u2019re going to charge and going to convict that person, because I think every single one of us in this Parliament and in this country wants to see that person convicted. Thank you, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 24 in the name of the Rt Hon Winston Peters to clause 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c2f7df6fddc43d59c8d6c3581100093\u0022\u003EPart 2  Brokering activity, registration, and permits\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa9df3aff9984f59ab4131c8781e3d5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa9df3aff9984f59ab4131c8781e3d5d\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E This is really the substantive part of the bill, so I\u2019m sure a lot of my friends in the committee will be leaping to their feet to discuss this part as well. I want to focus in particular on the offence parts of the bill, and these are found in clause 9 and clause 9A as well. Clause 9A is of particular importance because clause 9A carves out some particular exceptions to the offences of brokering without a permit or without registration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of things really that I would put to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Tracey Martin. I\u2019m really just alerting them because I think they\u2019re probably dealt with satisfactorily, but I do think they are worthy of the attention of the House because of the questions of onus that arise. It\u2019s really about burdens of proof and presumptions of innocence. So we have, for example, clause 9, which doesn\u2019t apply to a person who carries out a brokering activity on behalf of the person\u2019s employer but only if, in relation to that activity, the person has reasonable grounds to believe that the employer complies with clause 9. So we\u2019ve got a question there of whether there is a positive belief. The question, I suppose, is: what if there is no belief whatsoever? What if they never even turned their mind to that\u2014no idea, for example, of the illegality?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe, only moments ago, were speaking of dual-use goods\u2014the fact that things as innocuous-looking as software can be a dual-use good, which in fact is regulated under this legislation. So that\u2019s one question there: what amounts to reasonable grounds to believe? And, of course, earlier on in clause 9A, in fact, we\u2019ve got dual-use goods, where the person \u201Chas taken reasonable steps to ensure that the dual-use goods will not be used for a prohibited use.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EDual-use goods raise particular problems because so many of them\u2014and I have not read the entire Strategic Goods List, but I did actually have a good look at it. Some things you would kind of know have a possible military application\u2014like, for example, a gunsight might have an entirely non-military application, but, equally, we would expect to know. But when we\u2019ve got things which are things like software or even defensive clothing\u2014a Kevlar vest which might have a perfectly good security use for a security guard but is in fact regulated as a dual-use good\u2014is it reasonable to expect someone to turn their mind to that question and take \u201Creasonable steps to ensure\u201D? So that\u2019s the first thing I\u2019d say about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe next thing is how those defensives work. So the question then becomes, if there has been a brokering in arms without a permit, what are the procedural steps? We then turn to clause 10, and we note that in clause 10(1A) it is presumed \u201Cin the absence of any evidence to the contrary, that an exception \u2026 does not apply.\u201D So the onus actually falls on the defendant, the person who is accused, in proving that a defence does apply. I think probably the appropriate threshold is that they have to raise some evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got this quite unusual, at least to the layperson, problem of a shifting onus, where the defendant has the onus to show some evidence, and then the prosecution has the onus of showing that the evidence doesn\u2019t go far enough to establish the defence. In fact, only then do we shift on to the onus to prove the offence itself. So there are some questions that I would raise around, really, the criminal procedure around these quite unusual provisions, particularly because they are unexpected. There\u2019s a real risk that people may find themselves being charged for trading in goods which they had no idea were in fact regulated. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6fa6b3c629e46e18981df6ca7de5af2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6fa6b3c629e46e18981df6ca7de5af2\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll just articulate some information I have, in an attempt to assist the member Dr Duncan Webb. There seems to be quite a wide concern that people will be caught trading with items that would be considered dual-use goods without any knowledge. That seems to be what the major concern is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWeapons, military equipment, and dual-use goods and technologies are already subject to export controls in New Zealand and elsewhere, under the four international export control regimes. So we believe it is reasonable to expect a person dealing with weapons, military equipment, or dual-use goods to know that it is a controlled activity, and that they should look into how to broker these goods lawfully. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) will publish extensive guidance on its website for prospective brokers on New Zealand\u2019s brokering regime. The guidance will include outlining the circumstances in which registration and permits are required, and where an exemption may apply. MFAT encourages all prospective brokers to first inquire with them to seek advice on the status of the goods they are intending to broker, and whether they may or are likely to fall within an exemption. I think the other thing to note\u2014so the first thing is, if in doubt call MFAT and find out before somebody shows up at your door. I think that\u2019s probably the first piece of advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWith regard to offences under the bill, they are subject to the Attorney-General\u2019s consent to ensure prosecutions are not brought lightly, particularly when they involve the exercise of extraterritorial jurisdiction. The bill also does allow for civil enforcement, recognising that some breaches will be minor, but again I would encourage\u2014if in doubt, check it out; give MFAT a ring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u002236847757f1254541af4ab1b0178743cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236847757f1254541af4ab1b0178743cf\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. I\u2019d like to contribute a k\u014Drero that\u2019s based on some of the information that the Minister in the chair, the Hon Tracey Martin, has contributed tonight, and I want to thank her as well for her constructive engagement in this process. It really is about the Strategic Goods List, that I did find on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade\u2019s website, and the definition of \u201Cdual-use\u201D. Essentially, this part is dealing with dual-use goods. If you\u2019re brokering, you need to be registered and you get a permit. If you\u2019re engaged in brokering dual-use goods that are not being used for military purposes\u2014and I guess that\u2019s the caveat\u2014you don\u2019t need to register and you don\u2019t need a permit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EBut you actually need to understand what dual-use goods are. So, by definition, they\u2019re goods and technology developed for commercial purposes but which may be used either as military components or for the development or production of military systems or weapons of mass destruction. Herein lies some really interesting distinctions, because included in that are such things as technology. So it\u2019s specific information or software necessary for the development, production, or use of a product. This information takes the form of technological data or technological assistance. It can be instructions, skills, training, working knowledge, consulting services, the transfer of technological data that may be blueprints, plans, diagrams, models, frameworks, tables, engineering designs, specs, and those sorts of things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EHerein lies, I guess, the challenge of this bill. What we\u2019re essentially instituting in Part 2 of this piece of legislation, as my colleague Duncan Webb highlighted, is an exception, and we particularly focused on staff\u2014you know, employees working for somebody in a factory, in a warehouse\u2014and how would they know? I think that whole question of \u201Chow would they know?\u201D is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EBut I guess herein lies why clause 4(3)(b) is really important, and the gazetting of that Strategic Goods List, and ensuring actually that employees have access to information that ensures they understand the industry that they\u2019re involved in and, I guess, the technology or the goods that they are handling on a day-to-day basis. It also\u2014and I\u2019d love the Minister to elaborate fully\u2014is relevant to clause 18A, which is actually about brokers providing an annual report to the secretary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe reason that we\u2019re wanting that form of transparency is because if you are a broker, we want to actually know where those goods are going. It\u2019s in the process of understanding where those goods are going that, actually, you possibly can make a determination about what the use of those dual-use goods is or the use of, I guess, the military goods and technology\u2014what they will be used for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m really interested in the Minister\u2019s perspective. Each of these parts isn\u2019t discrete; they\u2019re actually all interrelated. Everything in this bill fits together, and, I think, in a really nice way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI would like some clarification, I do have to say, in terms of the offences\u2014where did the fines come from? Where did the $100,000 for individuals and the $1 million in any other case come from? I mean, obviously that\u2019s a deterrent, and what we\u2019re trying to do is to ensure that people who are engaged in activities, either brokering or dual-use technology or goods, actually understand that this sector and the industry that they\u2019re choosing to be part of is one that we must be vigilant about. We actually have to ensure that the Arms Trade Treaty isn\u2019t being compromised by people who choose to engage in these activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWhat we also know is this isn\u2019t just a theoretical exercise, from our perspective. There have been occasions and instances where people have tried to sell and to transfer the goods that this bill is talking about. So it would be really good to hear from the Minister about how this whole package is seen as the best deterrent for people who want to trade and to use dual-use goods in a negative way, and how this is going to stop that behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022653751e75f7442f28da4d0dde714ec1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022653751e75f7442f28da4d0dde714ec1e\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Just to answer a couple of questions that are still unanswered, with regard to a previous speaker questioning how there would be the enforcement of the bill. In the case of a clear breach, New Zealand would gather evidence in the usual way, utilising mutual legal assistance arrangements with other countries and wide law-enforcement relationships, including Interpol, to establish a case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI think you would find that if there was a major incident, a terrorism incident, there is a lot of investigation and a lot of tracking back that goes on. I think people probably underestimate the high skill level that New Zealand has in participating to ensure that we are safe and that our world is as safe as we can possibly make it. So that answers that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWith regard to safeguards so that somebody\u2014an employee working in a warehouse\u2014cannot be captured by this piece of legislation, the bill includes a number of safeguards to ensure that only appropriate brokering activity is captured, and that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade has a wide range of tools to address breaches of the Act. The bill\u2019s focus is on core brokering activities and does not include services that are merely ancillary. For example, a person who acts as an agent or intermediary person for persons involved in a brokering transaction is captured; a person who merely provides administrative, customs brokering, or financial services in relation to brokering transactions is not covered. Somebody, I would assume, who is in a warehouse and is packing things\u2014single items or whatever\u2014and is not in a level of decision making or at the level that they could have some form of knowledge of the final end use of those items would not be covered under this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThere are a number of exemptions to the registration and permit requirements. A person who brokers dual-use goods is exempt unless the dual-use goods are intended for a prohibited use in the bill, which is the use in weapons of mass destruction programmes or military end use. The prospective broker must undertake due diligence. I think therein lies the key: the prospective broker must undertake due diligence to ensure that the intended end use of the goods will not be used for prohibited purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe onus lies on us all to keep the world a safe place. That means the onus lies on those who are selling; therefore, it is their business to know where their goods are going. So, no, we certainly won\u2019t be whipping out there and arresting any store people, but if somebody knows that they are taking part in this, then we have the tools by which we will make sure they stop it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u00223c71bd2d49ef40afaa2603aa6dd8dfc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c71bd2d49ef40afaa2603aa6dd8dfc0\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I talk delicately when I look at this bill because it wasn\u2019t too far ago, in my own electorate, in the Waiariki electorate, that some people were accused of having weapons up in the hills of the Ureweras. When I look through this and I look at some of the penalties and some of the regulations that are in place, I personally think it\u2019s a really good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of things\u2014a few points\u2014that I\u2019d just like to get a bit of clarification about from the Minister in the chair, Tracey Martin, while we\u2019ve got the opportunity. First of all is just about the situation having the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade assessing the applications. I think that New Zealanders will be happy to hear that there are some strong safeguards in place. I think the term \u201Cfit and proper person\u201D is very good and very telling. I\u2019m happy that there will be people there assessing whether or not people are fit and proper people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThe point that was made was about using the strategic goods criteria to assess applications, and I was just wondering, from the Minister, if she could just talk a bit more about what that criteria entailed. I knew that the refusal of an application, as it reads, is if the person that was applying was, in fact, going to somehow breach New Zealand\u2019s obligations under the UN Security Council resolutions\u2014also, any of New Zealand\u2019s other international obligations as well\u2014and, obviously, a person can be refused if the goods are going to be used in the commission of genocide, crimes against humanity, or war crimes. So I think they\u2019re all very fair. I\u2019m just keen to learn a bit more about those criteria, and also the other international export control regimes\u2014just a little bit of information about them. I know that there are only four of them, but I just wondered whether or not the Minister could just give us a brief rundown on those four export control regimes that New Zealand participates in, if there\u2019s a possibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also just wanting to take a little step back and have the general conversation about how much of an issue weapons brokering really is in New Zealand. I\u2019d never currently entertained the thought that there are people sitting in offices around New Zealand that are in this area. As I understand it, there are 11, I think, and of that only a small part of them are quite active. I just wanted to understand\u2014and I think also for the people out there that are listening to this or watching this online\u2014whether or not New Zealand is a big player in this game or a small player, whether or not we are potentially going to be bombarded with applications from people that decide that weapons brokering is the business that they want to get into. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcdf1e38bdf441dd918a308b6cc6a22f\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a good pun.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226546e61b7768465db437abfb4e11e156\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY\u003C/span\u003E: So, a wee bit more\u2014what\u2019s that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e43f777a4514d1d920fda5059380eb0\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CBombarded\u201D\u2014that\u2019s a good pun.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a36c576689e24d2fbad20f0d4463bb9e\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CBombarded\u201D. Thank you. I\u2019ll take that pun. And also, I guess a key part of this legislation is just making sure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00228d1a3d3ad2724728bdd24246485844e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d1a3d3ad2724728bdd24246485844e6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member. The time has come for me to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported progress on the Brokering (Weapons and Related Items) Controls Bill, and no progress on the Families Commission Act Repeal Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2018050827d96e39d92a4654a69248536eb203c3000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.56 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"