"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a45d017538b4c4485fa38a7b9f5b303\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 9 MAY 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228a225d3f300c40edb0a83d0dd845e374\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 9 MAY 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000004\u0022\u003EKarakia.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222a171c5959254f24bcdac601d3f13d24\u0022\u003EMarriage (Court Consent to Marriage of Minors) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226cbd23d82bf24f14aecf0e550fb8a364\u0022\u003EInstruction to Justice Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec4afe63f14d451bb280d644976ac6a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec4afe63f14d451bb280d644976ac6a1\u0022\u003EJO HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the Justice Committee or a committee of the whole House, when considering the Marriage (Court Consent to Marriage of Minors) Amendment Bill, to have authority to consider and, if it thinks fit, adopt amendments to the Civil Union Act 2004 and the Care of Children Act 2004 despite Standing Order 260, and for the bill to be an omnibus bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a087465e5dec42c28dd6b1b934d0a63a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a087465e5dec42c28dd6b1b934d0a63a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that? There appears to be none. That is agreed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a95fb2c5d17437fbbfa30b18da37a62\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c43186558aa1448db4f455778d57901a\u0022\u003EParliamentary Precinct\u2014Members\u2019 Access to the Chamber\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002221f406c1e0304610825b8621b0b94f3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221f406c1e0304610825b8621b0b94f3c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Yesterday, on the way to the House, several Ministers and others crossing from Bowen House to the Beehive found it very difficult to actually make it to the House, because of the press gallery forming, effectively, what were five clusters all around the entrance, and I suspect that there is a delay today and that the member who is the subject of the first question is unable to do that. I wonder whether you would consider whether, in fact, there should be a time limit on that and whether that should end prior to when the bells stop ringing. Otherwise, there are going to be situations where Ministers are unable to answer questions in the House because of the delay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002289c75707e4f84535a6f49b96536ee5f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289c75707e4f84535a6f49b96536ee5f2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate the tactics that the member has just employed. I think the member is aware that if there is actually a physical hazard caused by anyone stopping members coming into the House, it is a breach of privilege and should be reported accordingly. If members want to come to me quietly afterwards and indicate chokepoints or specific problems, then, of course, I will take it up with the chairperson of the press gallery, but I don\u2019t propose otherwise to take any action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b38cc67f092b498d8ace65b25402ac80\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022926cdde2e8ec4b42b0dda388e5cb2372\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f515ffccaaf4b6c9acc98c96e44c486\u0022\u003EGovernment Policy\u2014Education, Foreign Affairs, Health, Social Services Spending, Immigration, and Population Planning\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb6a54c11c0342f59312821710d9e86f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb6a54c11c0342f59312821710d9e86f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s policies and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002208a0557b74ad468ebe1986ff0a7e75a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208a0557b74ad468ebe1986ff0a7e75a8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c1d64ce009b41ba980ea4118b6b694e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: When she said yesterday that the Government\u2019s current immigration policy is \u201Cexactly the same one we campaigned on\u201D, can she do better than that and elucidate for everyone exactly what her Government intends to deliver on immigration?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ad4cd6ad77b4538a017086c3d394705\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, what we talked about in the campaign remains the same. We are developing policy and Cabinet papers on this issue as we speak. I\u2019m sure the member can wait until those are available publicly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c85a111c75124a08836b589fd1f6672b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that \u201Cthe rate at which our population is growing is placing unsustainable pressure on infrastructure\u201D, as stated in the immigration policy she campaigned on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae8441f5750d4482b1a827b5b4d22c44\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Do we have a housing crisis because the last Government didn\u2019t do any population planning? Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b16a527c9284c2aaf0d843421ecca4a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that the rate at which our population is growing is placing unsustainable pressure on infrastructure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d818b27b8d8c462b91a61e0b4423f0d1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: This is, of course, a question in two parts. If we had the infrastructure we wouldn\u2019t be having this debate. That Government did not do any population planning, immigration got to the highest level it has in some time, and there was no planning around transport or housing, and we\u2019re having to pick up the pieces from that. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ebcd5f9d89d4ca490be7c471f696533\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! There was a member who made an unparliamentary reference to the Prime Minister. That member will stand, withdraw, and apologise. I\u2019ll listen to the tape and work out who it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204d7aae55b6848c698927314f34ee00f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: What was it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022981cdf980228445fb5b358b509e976ef\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not going to repeat the reference, Mr Brownlee\u2014a very sexist remark. It wasn\u2019t Mr Bridges; it was someone behind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228016d85ebd7e4c10a837edb2cf50f44f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree on immigration that \u201CIt is time to take a breather.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022813ca21782b94d0bb2927e2352f402bb\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said, there is no question\u2014ask anyone resident in Auckland\u2014there was no population planning done. Now, whether or not you take into account returning New Zealanders or population growth generally, or the regions spilling into Auckland because there weren\u2019t jobs available for them there, there are not enough houses in Auckland, there\u2019s not enough transport infrastructure. We\u2019re dealing with that problem now to try and make sure that everyone who\u2019s resident there has a decent standard of living. It\u2019s a big difference between us and the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b255a7e5e144ff2b287c3b70d1f9399\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government trying to achieve in its immigration policy\u2014can we be clear: is it smaller numbers, is it a breather, is it something different now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224114747711e24ddeae05b2c65248d691\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Given I was late to the House because I was having to correct the member\u2019s confusion outside, I\u2019m happy to do it in here as well. What we are focused on in our immigration policy is a quality education system for international students and proper labour market testing so that we fill genuine gaps in our labour market. It\u2019s quite simple. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f840d072bf86460a8ea83496929efc8e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I am going to ask the Leader of the Opposition to be a little quieter. When he asks a question, I think he should show the Prime Minister the respect of at least listening to the first half of the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c51085c0b42a429a85bd9405de5b5d7f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government\u2019s immigration policy Labour\u2019s election promise to reduce net migration by 20,000 to 30,000 a year, or New Zealand First\u2019s policy to reduce net migration to just 10,000 a year, or is it something else?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2b92a26f07645b2b9d026432ebba1e4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I said yesterday, and as I\u2019m repeating today, our policy as a party has not changed. The Government is now progressing that policy. It is about quality education and about proper labour market testing, and the estimates off the back of those changes were in the 20,000 to 30,000 mark\u2014estimates, not targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253a71ac2bbcb4ecf8992a46bfb6e7a4f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why did her Government favour $900 million for diplomats rather than fully funding universally cheaper GP visits from 1 July?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a884be4b0c41473e95c4bc69256ecaf2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m again happy to correct the member. We are not spending that amount of money on diplomats. In fact, we\u2019re spending roughly the amount that that last Government spent on a bad Saudi sheep deal and a bad flag referendum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a1f12cfeadc45548b049a36c0ba1385\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why is that $900 million more important than cheaper universal GP visits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022186a7656b2d644658be81e49731999bd\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I correct the member again. The amount that he is quoting includes the amount that we are putting into overseas aid and development. When it comes to our health spending, we\u2019ve yet to announce the full package that this Government has produced, and the member will just have to wait. But I do really question whether or not the National Party is now telling us they see that they have no responsibility for aid and development in the Pacific, because that\u2019s a big change from what they purported to do when they were in office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc9d18433bf545788e9261dbe2bb81e7\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How can she spend nearly a billion dollars on foreign affairs and aid and also claim that there\u2019s a crisis in health and education funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239020dd15adf4fc08824a8fd495f2f1d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Because there is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb8e38afac4f46e187a7edc30b13fb1d\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: If there\u2019s a crisis in health and education funding, why is it that she\u2019s putting nearly a billion dollars into foreign affairs and foreign aid? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f3b68f52fa347eba0b56606f02e1184\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Of course we are having to invest in health and education as well, and the member will see at Budget time how we have balanced the range of competing demands that we have. I can tell the member why we\u2019ve had to put this big boost in. When the last Government was in office, Official Development Assistance was at 0.27 percent of gross national income, but, as with everything else, in the next financial year, they let it plummet\u2014plummet. So we\u2019ve had to reinvest just to get it back up to meet our international responsibilities\u2014shame on you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d244a90feb2e4654a34a9353e844bc63\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What analysis convinced her that we needed to open an embassy in Stockholm? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1993105ca8f4a91892d5e10fc6f55e4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The same analysis that meant it was open 10 years ago, and then shut by them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223654dbe6aad3412cbd9ec1ffeae7fdb2\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What was the rationale\u2014what was the position in that analysis on the embassy opening in Stockholm? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225070e83c0da64693b7a9bc1c829a1fc9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member may have failed to acknowledge that one of the biggest opportunities that we have in trade is the potential to have an EU free-trade agreement that is worth potentially $15 billion. Now, that party may think that we can float around the international environment without having any representation internationally; they are wrong. We\u2019re going to suffer if our voice is not heard within Europe and the international stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dc462665e5547cbbac56c244d76318c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: For clarity, why are we reopening an embassy in Stockholm?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae3cd7a1d7a942e0bfd3d6587ec8bc35\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Because they should never have closed it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6bffa699a5a483581f228805d420f91\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Do immigrants ultimately build more homes than they occupy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8405472eef24b3eab57524c8a9ae118\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: If the question that the member\u2019s trying to allude to is that we need to make sure that we meet the housing demands of everyone who lives here, then the answer seems pretty obvious to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f0d2b264f854611bc94954fdb31d09c\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is it any different if the immigrants have Chinese-sounding names? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022751d8815112b41409826f0d59b28d8f7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister has indicated she\u2019s declined to answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b01859c53f487092867fc751769684\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: When she said that all the issues around social services can\u2019t be solved in one Budget, was that because she knew she had billions of dollars going to Winston Peters\u2014and that\u2019s simply in the first year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d1b2ad293f746b28bc544b21e890126\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I still stand by that statement. For example, this morning we announced the first increase in funding that family violence services like Women\u2019s Refuge have had in 10 years\u2014the first. We\u2019ve managed to do\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a997aae2db64746b138cbf98db7e1e1\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: That is not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231db95c880d74f38967fceb13c274c91\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: And if the member Ms Paula Bennett wants to demonstrate that she gave money to front-line services, I\u2019d welcome it. But what that proves is that we, in this Budget, are balancing a huge number of competing needs, and we\u2019ve done it well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228657d10c832446be9d0ac8623a2e6f37\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. With the Standing Orders requiring a Minister to address a question, is it now possible that a Minister can address a question without even getting out of her seat? She just refused to address\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220389fdcca19d4cbdadd61996f2784f2d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e7817230e1546e2a63576427d7b1124\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b12257d17e84d0bb894ae0e6fa54094\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Prime Minister will resume her seat. The situation is very clear: a Minister has a right not to answer a question. It\u2019s always been there. I\u2019ve seen it done on a number of occasions. I certainly can\u2019t force a Minister to answer, and certainly not for that question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b90d3fbd652478884df6fb69fdef926\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to answer the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f9d65a45bee498b9676953e31d5316a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Prime Minister seeks leave to revert back one supplementary and to answer it. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c572150867104e1d9670a1ad215272eb\u0022\u003EForeign Affairs\u2014New Zealand\u2019s Role in the Pacific and Stockholm Embassy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u0022caa5b38aa6b64abc9034dae6434a49b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022caa5b38aa6b64abc9034dae6434a49b6\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: What recent announcements has he made relating to New Zealand\u2019s role in the Pacific and the wider world? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc9761e8599a4bcda7b6e1a088d42cce\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Before the member starts, David Bennett is not to interject for the rest of this question time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00226d5654ed8eec4fbbb67381d75529c145\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d5654ed8eec4fbbb67381d75529c145\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, we announced the first steps this Government has taken to ensure New Zealand protects its prosperity, security, and democracy after a decade of neglect. To this end, we have committed to a $1 billion foreign affairs package composed of $150 million of additional operational spending over four years, which will bring 50 new full-time positions and diplomats, amongst other objectives; second, $40 million of additional capital spending to bolster New Zealand\u2019s overseas offices; and, third, $714 million in additional funding for New Zealand\u2019s Overseas Development Assistance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d0deaa396954e9b821c1938f71c2687\u0022\u003EHon Maggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: What about funding Te Reo? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5dc4f9f2e00445fbf471f002454a1ba\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014directed primarily towards the Pacific region. And if that member wants to talk about Te Reo, I was in the party that first funded Te Reo, and she wouldn\u2019t know that because she\u2019s only been here for five minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225929ce4f03a840fe9a11677554ba721c\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: Why are the announcements in foreign affairs and trade in Budget 2018 necessary for protecting New Zealanders\u2019 safety and prosperity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fc8d91c3e3645d78093a7bab2a2077b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: That is a seriously responsible question. The prosperity and safety of New Zealanders rest on the ability of this country to protect and advance its interests offshore, and that includes trade. Trade has been declining as a percentage of GDP, despite the previous Government\u2019s pledge to increase it. We announced yesterday changes which will see us facing an increasingly difficult world, with security challenges, sovereignty, nuclear proliferation, terrorism, myrtle rust, cyber-crime, domestic affairs interference from other countries, transnational crime, and humanitarian crises. The rules-based international system is struggling to adapt, and we\u2019re going to step up and do our job for the first time for a long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e9aed3abba34605b8379eee1957db39\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any other reports on overseas development assistance budget increases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f80d50b9ada74db7b32f2edcf087c670\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Perchance I have. Following directly on from our speech last night, the Australian Government announced its largest ever aid commitment to the Pacific, of $1.3 billion. This reflects a shared commitment to assist our closest neighbours and advance our common interests together in the Pacific region. It follows on from an agreement we entered into when we spoke at the Lowy Institute in March in Sydney, and I\u2019m delighted that my Australian colleague has stepped up as well to arrest a decline in their funding. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge our close partners, including the United Kingdom, the EU, France, and Japan. Three new high commissions are starting for the UK in the Pacific very shortly, and alongside that a greater commitment from the EU in terms of wanting to work with us and also a re-engagement with France. It\u2019s all great progress. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203df184a4de24313ad1baad97ddb160d\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What explanation can he give to hard-working New Zealand taxpayers of why an embassy in Stockholm is more important than universally cheaper GP visits, free dental care for seniors\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221feabf696f394275b702b45df5130966\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That\u2019s two questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be4a002a7a1b4d8aae9220902616aeea\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Because my fellow citizens in this country are enlightened human beings and understand international policy, and foreign affairs in particular, better than the Opposition, I don\u2019t have to explain that; they understand the necessity of that. In the last poll there ever was done, 72 percent of New Zealanders said they supported that, as did Australia last week, as reported in the Sydney Morning Herald, where a majority of Australians also said that they should step up and assist in overseas aid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8c86ae0de834cfdbaceb48f2da6b36b\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Tax Cuts, Trans-Tasman Migration, and Wages\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u00224f3ed07bed4b441aa21ea485b78082a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f3ed07bed4b441aa21ea485b78082a2\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What is the current difference in average full-time after-tax wages between New Zealand and Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002256f4e4cfb874446992c8bf426d7b795b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256f4e4cfb874446992c8bf426d7b795b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E According to advice that I have received, the current full-time after-tax annual wage in Australia converted to New Zealand dollars is $70,478, compared with $50,957 in New Zealand, a difference of $19,521.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b958c89391454d00bf4bad6470c4e92c\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Is this after-tax wage gap going to get larger or smaller as a result of his decision to take away a thousand dollars per year of tax reductions from New Zealanders on the average wage, and Australia\u2019s decision last night to give workers a $500-a-year tax cut?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220e69b1a4e114a20a60ae5d185a6bd72\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The details of the Australian tax package are to roll out over a number of years, so the impact will vary both in terms of time and on individuals. Clearly, this Government rejected the previous Government\u2019s tax package, so therefore there will be an impact in terms of the after-tax annual average wage, but I hasten to add, for the member, that for many families and individuals in New Zealand they will be significantly better off as a result of our targeted Families Package.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224524119c04634e9d99be631c81e6722f\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Given that, since the end of 2008, take-home pay in New Zealand has grown twice as fast as in Australia, is he worried that all the work that has gone into making New Zealand more attractive than our neighbours for skilled workers is going to be eroded over the coming years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202f09a44251d45c0b4bee3e2c6fe4807\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Far from it, because in New Zealand today the tax as a portion of gross income will be 18.9 percent, and after the changes made last night by the Australian Government, it\u2019ll be 22 percent. So, actually, in New Zealand the impact of tax is, in fact, smaller in New Zealand on gross income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7631ff8bddd4f458b82622c77564086\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Is he at all concerned that New Zealanders will simply vote with their feet and that, having turned around the exodus of New Zealanders heading to Australia from 35,000 a year in 2008 to actually now a small gain, the outward migration to Australia will now increase as a result of their growing after-tax wage advantage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb3e16cfcc8941e2b7e612dd4f045ba3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not believe that will occur, because this Government has a plan to grow sustainable jobs and lift wages. Unlike the National Party Opposition, we actually believe that the reward for workers is higher wages. That is actually how people get rewarded, rather than tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247bb08ced1594783a20b74a97095c9af\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Why would skilled young New Zealanders choose to stay here if the after-tax wage gap starts to grow and they face a Government in New Zealand that\u2019s actively slowing down the local economy by ending our oil and gas sector, large-scale cow culls, discouraging foreign investment, and restrictive industrial relations laws?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c58ca622209348449bb23c0b00deda0f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I reject almost everything in that question from the member. We actually have a plan for New Zealand\u2019s economy to be more productive, more sustainable, and more inclusive. I think New Zealanders want to live in a country that\u2019s fair and where they get a chance to achieve their potential\u2014that\u2019s the plan of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226cdea2f8c6614c56991886845ce64310\u0022\u003ETransport\u2014Regional Fuel Tax\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00220f6147b814664e0a9de0f830f01eeb60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f6147b814664e0a9de0f830f01eeb60\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does he stand by all his statements and actions on fuel taxes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00224bc29723bdd64ab4ae4a66f49b3222ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bc29723bdd64ab4ae4a66f49b3222ae\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, when described and reported accurately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdaf09d37261455f9529645cdfb67dd3\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Will he support the calls from councils located in the Wellington, Canterbury, Bay of Plenty, and Waikato regions to have regional fuel taxes in place, when he only ever said it would be required in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227be2ebded90a454f896ed515659b2b76\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve made it very clear publicly and to the councils in question that the Government\u2019s intention, as demonstrated in the bill that is currently before the Parliament, the Land Transport Management (Regional Fuel Tax) Amendment Bill, that only Auckland Council will have the opportunity to put in place a regional fuel tax during this parliamentary term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286a168f014514767bc13ee1ebb3d9fc5\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Will he campaign for the next 2\u00BD years for councils located within the Wellington, Canterbury, Bay of Plenty, and Waikato regions to tax their hard-working taxpayers more to have regional fuel taxes in place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cbd8520aa104f539411c52b9ad7e1ac\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The member will learn the issues that we\u2019ll be campaigning on in the next election a little closer to the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c64e7bf0d93c4ce2a181d9f4e630a728\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Was he embarrassed when his officials told him that the total number of submissions in favour of his regional fuel tax legislation is 8 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022309c7815dcbf48dba8e3fb49ec34a7a0\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No, because I believe that Aucklanders understand that under this Government they are going to see action on fixing the gridlock that plagues our country\u2019s biggest city and costs it $1.3 billion every year in lost productivity. Aucklanders want action, and as the New Zealand Herald said last week, let\u2019s just do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b72f5a906f514683ab7d49168f40d7f7\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225607a1b2801f4123bfc7f07750652399\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 5\u2014oh, sorry. Marja Lubeck\u2014supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d85952d52e1346cc907fba9742adbc12\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Will the proposed Auckland regional fuel tax be spent on the light rail network?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ef72a3f69d248e8a67f71487e2961be\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for that question. I\u2019m pleased to confirm that not one cent raised by Auckland Council\u2019s regional fuel tax will be spent on the light rail network. In fact, today the Government launched a market-sounding and procurement process for the light rail project that will be funded from the city\u2019s share of the National Land Transport Fund and, in all likelihood, innovative funding from other investors. It is another great day under this Government for growth and prosperity in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a178ae757a1b48e3aa26563737156b89\u0022\u003EBudget Policy Statement\u2014Capital Allowances, Increased Spending Allowances, and Operating Allowances\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00225044cd146646434b9a2e853fd75996e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225044cd146646434b9a2e853fd75996e4\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What were the operating and capital allowances in the Budget Policy Statement 2018 and how do these compare with previous periods?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddb095b8a4524107be5006a5ba1f2c4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddb095b8a4524107be5006a5ba1f2c4c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In the Budget Policy Statement that this Government released in December last year, we allocated for 2018-19 $2.6 billion of new operating allowances and $3.4 billion of capital allowances. This compares to the pre-election fiscal update, which had $1.8 billion in new operating allowances for 2018-19 and $2 billion on capital. Final allowances for Budget 2018 will be outlined next Thursday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b8f658d6b0745f9897447c07c8218ae\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: What priorities has this Government signalled for these increased spending allowances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233be7fe9919a40cf88f05a94a8d76aaf\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We have made rebuilding our critical public services, lifting children out of poverty, strengthening economic development in our regions, and better managing our natural resources as top priorities. Every New Zealander knows a story of how the services and infrastructure that we rely on have been run down in recent years. Just today, a group of health professionals delivered the stories of thousands of New Zealanders to us, which outlined the pressure that an underfunded health system has put on them. This is why we need these increased spending allowances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223745e64038ff4dedacaa22a3dd92b937\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: What impact would lower allowances have on public services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e2b914b698749b4960eaecde630b840\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Lower allowances would mean less funding for our critical public services, resulting in poorer quality services for New Zealanders. We can see examples of this in the current state of our health system, with leaky hospitals and overstretched staff, and in our education system, with more and more students enrolling but fewer teachers training. Anyone advocating for lower allowances would have to tell the New Zealand public what public services they would cut.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fed5c6d007904fc5a5976ad3b7d32e81\u0022\u003EHousing\u2014Emergency and Transitional Housing, and Homelessness\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u002293dd516ff64e46adab606610ae12ab80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293dd516ff64e46adab606610ae12ab80\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: Does he agree that nobody should be sleeping in cars this winter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9d58cba1f8c4ac79a3c65052c72d052\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9d58cba1f8c4ac79a3c65052c72d052\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5d69d8e21e44195afbbb71c0fc3b430\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: When he accepted, on The AM Show on Friday, \u201Cthere are indications that, in fact, homelessness is getting worse before it will get better\u201D under this Government, how much worse will it have to be before he increases funding to at least the level that the previous National Government funded?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280fe884eac464775984ddfcb9771deb2\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s true that the housing crisis that we inherited, and a masked level of hidden homelessness that\u2019s come to the fore in recent months, indicates that, in fact, homelessness may well get better before it gets worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c27e81c08d164e1bb6c7588d260e213e\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277260ab061e1430da7a538b2cbe8b8a4\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I want to respond\u2014sorry, \u201Cget worse before it gets better\u201D. I do want to respond to the member\u2019s assertion that the former Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ffaac7929fb407fa1e12625309b1875\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to get better before you get worse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290d79c5094964adab7cd9c6e3b11faf9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr McClay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cf057a9f26a4d609efc1a4b3b4f3ae5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014actually put more money into dealing with homelessness than this Government. The member should realise that, actually, we have continued to fund the emergency and transitional housing that his Government promised but failed to properly fund, and the $100 million that the Prime Minister announced only last week will properly fund the emergency and transitional housing that wasn\u2019t funded fully by his Government. On top of that, we have been putting in place 1,500 extra housing places since last winter, on top of what that Government provided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d73c3f8e136648bea42991aac91afb3d\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: When he said that the previous Government was \u201Cspending $140,000 a day putting people in motels.\u201D\u2014that \u201Cthis is not housing policy; that\u2019s an admission of failure.\u201D\u2014was the Minister wrong then, or is he now admitting that by funding motels he has failed by his own standard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223af506a933024552ba2813d50cb7b471\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: By rolling out more emergency and transitional housing in the last six months, we have cut in half the daily spend on motels that that Government was undertaking only a year ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256041bf9f16a4651895c0173598b10f8\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Will his housing for winter 2018 programme be of any use to people in winter if his plan is not to be completed until spring?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e440d56c5f249e4a23aa38d61392085\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: We ramped up the building of State houses. We stopped that Government\u2019s sell-off of State houses. We\u2019ve added more than 500 additional emergency and transitional housing places since we came to office. We started building extra houses. We\u2019re not going to stop until demand is met and homelessness is ended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5e494c2a6394a17add334d8102604db\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister as to whether or not, after nine years, if he were to be the Minister of Housing for that period and the crisis was still the one he inherited, would he not regard himself as a \u201Cmiserable blue failure\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8e2b99ee44645e6b000ddfd96d0e8fe\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I say to the member that I certainly would. To take nine years and deny there\u2019s a housing crisis, to hardly lift a finger to address the social and economic disaster\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce2c37278522462fa8092fe631da5b0e\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister may well be responsible for his own condition, and may well want to explain that he would, in certain circumstances\u2014although I can\u2019t think what would be worse than now\u2014describe himself as a miserable failure, but he has no ministerial responsibility or accountability to the House for his personal failings in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c34b603a6ca846a087d00e31a40fcf97\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question was a hypothetical one and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bba67ff36634476cbfea0d50dd68749d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It shouldn\u2019t have been asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234d739eb1b4e4d92b8bf40cca15e0f7b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee: the member knows that hypothetical questions and matters of opinion have been allowed in this House for some time\u2014most of that member\u2019s career. So the question was in order. I will also say to him that he is sailing very close to the wind using the point of order process in the way that he did, to make inappropriate references to a member. It\u2019s a very tight process and should not be used in that way. Shall we move on to the next question? It might be the best thing to do, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e17939d5169f4ab488bc918b14a3ab69\u0022\u003EBenefits\u2014Entitlements and Welfare Fraud\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00224b92266ee07e486395afdf9909328fb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b92266ee07e486395afdf9909328fb9\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: Does she stand by all her policies and actions in the social development portfolio?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002293f754f28c0742db9f336d01738b291b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293f754f28c0742db9f336d01738b291b\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbd014b99dad4d94b8eeae9e32ee80c8\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Is it still the Government\u2019s policy that if someone is found to have dishonestly claimed a benefit, they are responsible for paying back the fraud debt no matter what the circumstances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c724fc8785bd4bd9bc27da16e72df85d\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022772c462142b0485b838275cfe0fb2feb\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Has she, or anyone in her office, instructed officials or anyone in Work and Income to soften the Government\u2019s approach to dealing with benefit fraud?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c91fdeb5d21f4d589481252f5dd133ca\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022891d69ce4f1448a484a903966d74f95c\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: How many people will be investigated for benefit fraud and other dishonest entitlements in the crackdown on gangs promoted by the Minister of Police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224b349ac1b8d46febfe6839648179c4a\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have that information on me, but what I will say is that the previous Government should have had more of a focus on the number of New Zealanders who were not getting access to what they\u2019re entitled to, and then, perhaps, they would have more effectively addressed the issues of poverty that we face as a country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220decc2a284184fc381a9f369a7112ed8\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a straight question around benefit fraud and the crackdown on gangs, and the Minister didn\u2019t address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227da0f282ca72432e9809bde33bf9d28b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member had something that had reference to gangs and crackdowns of that sort in her primary question, then I think it might have been more reasonable to expect the Minister to come with the required numbers. When a member asks a very non-specific primary question, she should not expect any detail in her supplementaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c487b2ab24de49e5acc512f2ad71f0bd\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by her statement, \u201Cwe as a State have to give people what they are entitled to, and so that is where our obligation lies.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b176df25a1e4b5688d9904a12270eb7\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do, and I\u2019m really concerned at some of the assertions that have been made by the other side of the House with respect to concerns that we would be doing that, given that we have a legal obligation as a State to give people what they are entitled to through the Ministry of Social Development (MSD). It is not just an ethical concern, although we are ethical on this side of the House and want to make sure people get what they deserve to get access to. What the other side of the House fails to realise is that when you don\u2019t give people what they are entitled to through MSD, then the cost is shifted to other areas like health, like education, and like justice. It\u2019s important that we give people what they\u2019re entitled\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a84105eb3564abc833be1d88316a094\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! Order! Too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb30bd3b9e844a008a918248d50e9c67\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: How many more convictions for benefit fraud is she expecting following the crackdown on gangs by the Minister of Police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233d69cc173a24bd7b6e720afef834f4b\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Such a deficit approach from the other side of the House\u2014such a focus on the negative. Instead of maximising the potential of the New Zealanders that come for support through MSD, they want to focus on litigation against New Zealanders. It\u2019s a hypothetical question, and I\u2019m not going to respond to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c799f570fe02451eac4258eb10da1ffa\u0022\u003EFamily/Wh\u0101nau Violence\u2014Funding for Services\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u0022db9424e940984cc687060b991d59e7ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db9424e940984cc687060b991d59e7ba\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: What recent announcements has she made about funding for family violence services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022fef6b194a18743b4a032c14ac81c9d2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fef6b194a18743b4a032c14ac81c9d2c\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Today, the Government announced a $76 million boost over four years to front-line family violence services\u2014the first significant increase in 10 years. This is an almost 30 percent increase in funding, and is critical to the Government\u2019s efforts to begin to turn around New Zealand\u2019s tragic record of family violence. We know that many people who experience family violence can find themselves suffering alone. We\u2019ve taken the step to increase funding in order to make more support available to these families and provide a safe space for people who are desperately seeking support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3cf9b9bf15643d7b6153e72ac41fdcf\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will this have on family violence service providers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d7b2296470b4640ab288526df5af7bc\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The majority of this funding will go towards addressing demand at the front line. This means that around 150 existing Ministry of Social Development family violence service providers will be provided with extra funding in this Budget. These are the people who see and work with challenging and complex needs\u2014often in crisis situations, every day responding to family violence. We know this is a long-term issue, but this is a step we can take now to try and stem the significant increase in demand for these services while we work to get these numbers down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231d1b260d2fa40c6853c75c50e212be3\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this funding important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebb24e1ae9b84533ba98bd75ab7a4a36\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: For so many reasons. Family violence has a damaging yet often hidden impact on victims. Between 2009 and 2015, there were 194 family violence deaths in New Zealand\u2014an average of 28 family violence deaths per year. As the Prime Minister also said this morning at the Salvation Army breakfast, we\u2019re also cognisant that if we are going to prioritise children as a Government, then part of that means making sure they are in safe households that are free from violence. In this country, there are too many people\u2014many women and children\u2014living behind doors, filled with fear and pain. This is simply unacceptable, and this Government will do better by them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266f7e8bb54d7488097e4be4dcaa276ea\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Since the Minister is pleased to provide funding in addition to the $169 million from 2016, how will she measure the impact of this new funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a9b6a83efea4587ba908d9ac3d21d18\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, can she repeat the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022095a11b300e34b80b7ddd48de46b8f67\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I think it would be good to repeat, because I didn\u2019t quite understand myself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244e83677c54143debadfd94afbb5dd21\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister was pleased to provide additional funding, in addition to that $169 million in Budget 2016, how will she measure the impact of this new funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a5f93b1b63a4807bcea4eff979217e3\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t know what the $169 million additional funding that the member\u2019s talking about is. In fact, today, the Women\u2019s Refuge put out a release in response to our announcement saying that their baseline funding had remained static for the last nine years, and that they are immensely relieved that this Government is financially committing to addressing the chronic underfunding of the critical services to vulnerable women and children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f0fce79deba64172b6e89ae9749b3311\u0022\u003EMycoplasma Bovis\u2014Compensation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff58a44be08641cd9c5b7a175cb14f6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff58a44be08641cd9c5b7a175cb14f6f\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Biosecurity: Does he stand by all his statements and actions in relation to Mycoplasma bovis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0703c58299f453d82f0aa274fba2f55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0703c58299f453d82f0aa274fba2f55\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister for Biosecurity):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcf0c156e01342e79e7d55a92507a8da\u0022\u003ELawrence Yule\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to the White family in P\u0101toka, Hawke\u2019s Bay, who\u2019ve had 900 cattle killed and are still waiting for compensation, and, as a result, they can\u2019t afford to buy their children\u2019s rugby boots or replace their washing machine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be0e394b0b36488dab587c982fedf836\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Ask Nathan Guy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022114f9d7758a84f3ba8afa2983953e047\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I have sympathy for every farmer who\u2019s in any way affected by this Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. Can I say that, by the end of today, 80 percent of all claims made to the Ministry for Primary Industries will be paid out. I can also say that if his colleague Mr Guy had moved more quickly when we first discovered Mycoplasma bovis, this wouldn\u2019t be happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022558d8e18b0c24f82923ce65dfda6711d\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Why doesn\u2019t he direct his officials to provide a letter of intent to banks notifying them that compensation is on the way, to stop them pressuring nearly bankrupt farmers who are still waiting for terribly slow compensation payments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e0b7813cd894ddc8ca55ea3499366ef\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Can I repeat for that member: by the end of today, 80 percent of all claims made will be paid out. This is not a simple process. Can I take, for example, one claim, where the number of animals in the yard, the number of animals put on to the truck, and then the number of animals killed at the stock works were completely different. There\u2019s a lot of confusing information that has to be sorted through to ensure that the right payment goes to the farmers. In regards to the banks, the banks understand the situation. Wherever there has been a request for further information regarding compensation payments, we have delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224ec077a454a34a73bb99580d3bb82072\u0022\u003EPolice\u2014Increase in Front-line Officers and Sworn Staff\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5c89fed483a4342b7851455464b0a3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5c89fed483a4342b7851455464b0a3a\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: From what date will he start to count the extra 1,800 sworn police officers that he says he is striving towards hiring?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00223712458a31f34fc1bf021ab54833abba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223712458a31f34fc1bf021ab54833abba\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E From the date this Government took office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6da6ab8290e4f79b7732e5264efa6a8\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm then that he\u2019ll be including the extra 880 sworn police funded through Budget 2017 as part of his extra 1,800 sworn police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcbf016857e04a51bee8b94ecb20aa46\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Bishop, I\u2019ll take your 880 and I\u2019ll up them 920, which equals 1,800, which is 1,800 more than your Government delivered over seven years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eb1d14e00e0468d82383c3944458a4a\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the extra 1,800 sworn police officers will be able to respond to family violence call outs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221398afddbe0f48898cbf492e6859b8c4\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very good point, Mr Bishop, and it\u2019s one of the reasons why, of the 1,800, we\u2019re putting around about 1,100 into the front-line community positions, because we recognise that family harm and family violence is the scourge of our communities and we really want to deal with it. We think that a really good way to deal with it is to have police officers located in our communities. But having said that, all 1,800 work in the front line. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5d123939ccd49ddbe63e53f8127f8dc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I do want to remind the Leader of the Opposition that my mike is open and when he refers to members inappropriately in the second person, everyone hears it. I didn\u2019t stop him in any of the four times that he did it during that answer, but I will ask him just to take some care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d82ba49fe32e4561a08134b90051348c\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Newborn Enrolment with a General Practice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u002284049895fa994933a0ca4efa1591bd2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284049895fa994933a0ca4efa1591bd2f\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he support the enrolment of newborns with GPs before they are 6 weeks old?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d11c3236e8ec4a74b07fce5e5dbb7e36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d11c3236e8ec4a74b07fce5e5dbb7e36\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I want parents to have a simple process to ensure newborns get the care they need, including a GP practice, a Well Child provider, being on the immunisation register, and a dental programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213dc1e97545240fc894a3ee19baaff17\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: Can he then ensure that he will not vote against my bill, the Newborn Enrolment with General Practice Bill, and then, in order to get political mileage, steal the concept of my bill and use it as part of a Government bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206b89a41e1164cdb9bb399e1a476b25d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Legislation is not the answer. If it was, I\u2019m sure the previous Government would\u2019ve acted on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226305febd5fdf4e80a0e002ecf7a50a8b\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Language / Te Reo\u2014Government Support, Maihi Karauna Strategy, and Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u00221f01a9ed5f484dafba4ebc1e43f82c20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f01a9ed5f484dafba4ebc1e43f82c20\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: What recent reports has she seen from the M\u0101ori Language Commission on the importance of expanding te reo M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u002222bb41017eb24a0eb6a4940c264cc9ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222bb41017eb24a0eb6a4940c264cc9ac\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E I whiwhi i te ripoata n\u0101 Te Taura Whiri i Te Reo e aro ana ki te w\u0101 e mea atu, kia haruru a Aotearoa wh\u0101nui i t\u014D t\u0101tau reo taketake, ar\u0101 [The report was received from the M\u0101ori Language Commission in regards to the moment namely saying] all New Zealand will resonate with our indigenous language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6d98c7be10e4daebdca1bd7d8667c70\u0022\u003ENuk Korako\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100, e te huanga hoki ki ahau nei, n\u0101 wai ka ia ai urupare ki te p\u0101tai me te wh\u0101ia nui r\u0101nei ki te whakaturinga Te Reo, he m\u0101ngai ia m\u014D Te K\u0101wanatataka, k\u0101ore r\u0101nei?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[And also to the relative to me, who indeed is she responding to the question and the main aim or turning a deaf ear to the language, is she a representative for the Government or not?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5bc40a894d9452abfe039a49f7f3dfa\u0022\u003EHon Kelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: An\u014D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220521637c02244c64bd6f0758cf226a1c\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100e.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EMehemea ka t\u012Bkina e au te wairua o t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero, \u0101, ka hangaia e Te K\u0101wanatanga Te Maihi Karauna m\u0101 ng\u0101 k\u0101hui minita e aro atu hei rautaki m\u014D \u0101 m\u0101tau nei mahi kei Te K\u0101wanatanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIf I take the spirituality of that statement aboard, the Government will create the Maihi Karauna strategy for the ministerial clusters to take into account in terms of their responsibilities that the Government has for them.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cdbd639729948f2adc0e202602407bb\u0022\u003ERino Tirikatene\u003C/span\u003E: What work has been done on the development of the Maihi Karauna, the Crown\u2019s M\u0101ori language strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297ea8621933141ccbc4c46bca5b35fef\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho, Te Taura Whiri i te Reo M\u0101ori, M\u0101ori Television, and Te Puni K\u014Dkiri have worked very hard to complete the Maihi Karauna strategy, which was actually mandated by the previous Government, to guide the work of this Government as we seek to ensure that Reo revitalisation is something that all New Zealanders will benefit from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204dc40b2e7414622b526122d51c0f3a1\u0022\u003ENuk Korako\u003C/span\u003E: P\u0101tai an\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d239049b5fa4849a952fe43ab4ff2b0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, the time for oral questions has concluded. There are no supplementaries left to the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a57270f0e27c44da9e06da6d899b4e34\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022428bac07b3a34aab83dec850df6d3fd4\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00223cd15ec9fe6b48e2a015195ba9fdb339\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223cd15ec9fe6b48e2a015195ba9fdb339\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThank you, Mr Speaker. I want\u2014in, perhaps, an unusual move for me\u2014to congratulate New Zealand First, and Minister Sepuloni, for delivering on their coalition agreement for 150 front-line family violence services to get a well-overdue pay increase. This really, really matters, and I am so proud to stand up in this House and offer you my congratulations. These organisations, despite the rhetoric from that side of the House, have not had an increase in core funding for almost a decade, and they are an essential part of our response to family violence. Without them, our response lacks expertise, heart, and healing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIn a country like ours, everyone deserves to be safe in their home, and yet, right now, about 5 percent of women in this country will be experiencing physical violence in their intimate relationship. Some men will also be victims, though much less likely than women to experience fear or a loss of control of their daily lives\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022593d5149ed0e4c3c90f6cc0cf96553ca\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Can I ask members who are in the aisles or are standing up to sit down unless they\u2019re whips, please. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206af3cb3c660499081aeb381bc5d2e22\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: Police are called out to a family violence incident in this country about every four minutes, and children are present about 80 percent of the time. We know that this means for those children that it can have a profound, lifelong impact unless we get those children and their families the right support. We can do better than this. Funding these agencies is important for victims. We need a range of services. We need to have services for people with disabilities, the elderly, men, migrants, LGBTQI people, M\u0101ori\u2014we need a whole range of services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EBut just to give an indication to this House about what some of these services do, let me describe some of the work of women\u2019s refuge, where I used to work years ago. On any given day, they might have a number of phone calls from women who are reaching out to them. They may be in immediate danger and needing to call the police, or they might be wanting to discuss wanting better for their kids but not being sure what they need to do, or they may be worried about an escalation of violence in their relationship. They are probably considering how to leave and how to keep their kids but not knowing whether they can do that. They may be grappling with how to find a house, get money, manage their jobs, help their children find a new school and deal with the trauma of the violence, and how to tell their family, or even just how to help him stop the violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe police might also call the refuge, passing on the details and asking the refuge to contact one of the 400 women they are likely to be in contact with every day, and then the refuge will call up that woman, who\u2019s probably been trying to manage her own safety by herself for years. They need to try and establish a rapport to break through for that woman to have a sense that, actually, there is somebody who can help them manage their safety and find a pathway to safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESome of these women and kids will need to come into the refuge safe house. Others will need support out in the community to be able to deal with the range of agencies like Work and Income and Housing New Zealand and schools and courts and police, many of whom will not understand what they are going through. The refuge does, and they might be trying to do all of this incredibly important, potentially life-saving work with, say, just two paid staff. I just want the House to think about that: all of those lives, and there are two people, potentially, who are trying to manage all of those needs, all of those difficult conversations. It\u2019s clear that is not enough, but that is the consequence of the years of the previous Government refusing to increase the funding to these front-line organisations. It has meant that the agencies have been juggling and many have been unable to adequately support the victims, but that all changes today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00227676b4b2eb0f45c48989637fe024c19d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227676b4b2eb0f45c48989637fe024c19d\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does anyone remember that promise of the Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern, that she was going to lead a Government of relentless positivity? Does anyone remember that? Because what we saw today in Parliament was petulance\u2014petulance; a refusal to answer a very decent question from David Seymour, a refusal to engage on the issues, a petulance that we were wasting her time having to come to Parliament. That\u2019s the message that a lot of New Zealanders who watch Parliament at question time would have got from a Prime Minister who is too busy remixing music to go and visit the people in Taranaki and explain to them why she has completely stuffed up their industry; too busy going to have dinner with the journalist on Friday night, which was very inappropriate, I would have thought. She\u2019s too busy doing that to go and visit the people of Taranaki. Her job is for the people of New Zealand, not for her own gratification to tell everyone in the world that she\u2019s virtue signalling more than they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s have a look at some of the broken promises. Another broken promise: oil and gas. Did she ever tell us in the election campaign that the oil and gas industry would be destroyed by her Government? Never; not once. Did she say she was going to be for the regions? Oh, yes, she did. And is she? No. Did she tell us that there would be no new taxes until the Tax Working Group came back? Oh, yes she did. And what has happened? Tax after tax after tax. Fuel tax: 25c a litre is more tax on people who pay for petrol. Why has she done that? Because she doesn\u2019t have to pay for it. She\u2019s got an electric vehicle at her place. She gets to use the roads for nothing. She\u2019s after attacking every single group that she wants to do. She\u2019s never promised that\u2014she said no new taxes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s have a look at the KiwiBuild numbers. That\u2019s always a good one. We were promised 100,000 new KiwiBuild houses, built by this Government. So far we\u2019re down to 8,000 in the three-year term that they might actually get through to\u20148,000\u2014and of those they\u2019re all going to be bought off developers. So they\u2019re going to pay more\u2014this is how KiwiBuild works. They pay more money for houses than what they\u2019re worth, and then they sell them to people at less than what they\u2019re worth. So that\u2019s a brilliant scheme if you are a developer and if you happen to be one of the people who is going to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eecca2da0f854ed5a111116a22b16170\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014that\u2019s not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ade2453dd6964b75bc18313726904966\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Now the Rt Hon Winston Peters has raised his voice, and good for him, because he can say he\u2019s got $1 billion off New Zealand taxpayers for embassies. It\u2019s great. He\u2019s now going to go to Stockholm. And it\u2019s interesting, isn\u2019t it, that repairing the carpet in New Zealand embassies around the world is more important to New Zealand\u2014$1 billion worth\u2014and to New Zealand taxpayers than are the doctors visits for New Zealanders, free dental health for over-65s, and every other promise that they promised. So there\u2019s $1 billion on foreign aid and also for embassies\u2014because clearly we need an embassy in Stockholm!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI heard the Prime Minister today arrogantly tell the House in answer to the Leader of the Opposition as to why we had to have an embassy in Stockholm, and the answer was, essentially, \u201Cbecause you lot closed it\u201D. So that\u2019s the answer. So she needs to learn something from the Rt Hon Helen Clark. Helen Clark went after and helped and targeted particular groups in the community who needed help. This Prime Minister that we\u2019ve got at the moment, she targets people she\u2019s going to do over. Whether it\u2019s the farmers, the oil and gas workers, the 8,000 people whose jobs will be lost because of her, the people in the regions\u2014she\u2019s after the people who buy petrol, the people who pay for the roads. She\u2019s after everybody who actually helps make this economy work. And where is she for the farmers? Oh, don\u2019t worry about that. She\u2019s too busy mixing music and working out her next trip to Stockholm, because the Rt Hon Winston Peters\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1bd313877be422e896af054cff99524\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1bd313877be422e896af054cff99524\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a29a804f9f504d62b35ca14e1df0f7a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a29a804f9f504d62b35ca14e1df0f7a2\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I want to just acknowledge that contribution from the Hon Judith Collins and recognise the fact that it did seem to question the motivations of others. I think it\u2019s important that everyone in this House should recognise that that particular contribution was brought to you by the letter \u201CO\u201D for Oravida. The irony of that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWell, it\u2019s just one week to go to Budget 2018; eight sleeps to go. Eight sleeps to go, and then we will see a Budget delivered in this House which will show a Government that is not afraid to tackle the challenging issues, that is not afraid to tackle and clean up the mess that the other side of the House left behind after their time in Government. Budget 2018 will make it clear once and for all that this Government has very different priorities from the previous Government. It was already clear, of course, when we cancelled the tax package that was skewed towards the wealthy and put in place instead a targeted package of family support that goes to 384,000 New Zealand families. That will be rolled out and will mean many families will get $75 a week more in the pocket\u2014a targeted package that makes sure that those who need it the most are cared for. This is a Government that actually cares for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe care about affordable access to quality care in health. We care about education. We care about housing on this side of the House. We know that the fundamentals have been neglected for too long and that is why we are going to have a Budget that addresses that critical infrastructure; that addresses education, the neglect, the social neglect; that addresses the infrastructure neglect in education and health and housing. It will take more than one Budget to address it all, and this is a fiscally responsible Budget that is determined to balance the books but also to address that historical neglect that we have inherited. We\u2019ve got a plan to address it. We\u2019re going to get on and do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThere has been a legacy of time bombs out there left by the previous Government. Look at the workforce issues, the pressures that have been building up over nine long years of underfunding in the health system: $2.3 billion worth of underfunding is what an independent economist has assessed it at. That side of the House; they didn\u2019t seem to care. Those dedicated professionals would turn up to work day after day, week after week, month after month. This side of the House; we do care. We will begin to make those workforces more sustainable. I met the nurses out today who were concerned about underfunding in the health system and we as a Government are determined to address that historical neglect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe are determined to address the building issues that we\u2019ve inherited. Everybody knows by now in this country that there is rot and mould in some of our hospital buildings. Those problems didn\u2019t develop overnight; they developed because there was a Government previously that refused to acknowledge that those problems existed at all. I as health Minister have asked for a national asset management plan so that we can actually get a baseline across the country of all the buildings. We can prioritise them; we can address them. There is asbestos in many buildings. There are historical issues that need to be addressed and we have a plan to address them, and I think this current Government will be seen to be a Government that is prioritising that, addressing that historical neglect, in a way that the previous Government didn\u2019t, come Budget day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe will address that historical legacy of underfunding across the health sector, the deficits that are building up, and the health services that are now harder for New Zealanders to access than they used to be. We think New Zealanders deserve healthcare that is of a First World status.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ELook at the helicopters. They left the helicopters undealt with; 29 years is the average age of that fleet. We need a sustainable, futureproofedservice that actually improves clinical outcomes for patients over time. We won\u2019t let things drift. We won\u2019t be afraid of tackling the hard issues. Bowel screening\u2014they were hopelessly optimistic with bowel screening. No plan at all to address bowel screening, and they just said, \u201CWe\u2019ll roll it out.\u201D We are uncovering all the problems with that. We\u2019ve had to instigate a review, in fact\u2014because it was so horrendous\u2014to get to the bottom of their poor planning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve introduced nearly as many reviews as the last Government did in their first year, because we\u2019ve inherited such a mess and we\u2019re determined to get on and deal with it. Mental health: New Zealanders\u2014tens of thousands of them\u2014called for a review of mental health, and we have kicked that off because we believe we need to listen and we need to address that serious crisis. Water: up to 100,000 New Zealanders every year\u2014best estimate\u2014are getting crook from poor water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis Government will address the hard issues. We will address the infrastructure deficits we\u2019ve inherited. We\u2019ll address the service deficits we\u2019ve inherited. We are a Government committed to a better future for New Zealanders\u2014a Government that will tackle the hard issues. We\u2019ve got different priorities, and we will deliver for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00220b6dc5945a3744d694502761fab7eda6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b6dc5945a3744d694502761fab7eda6\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Look, one of the strange things I\u2019ve found with all the claims around health from that member David Clark and others is that I haven\u2019t seen one photo yet of all these supposed mouldy walls and asbestos and stuff. I\u2019d just love that member to table some of them, because, as that member well knows, I\u2019ve visited many of these hospitals over time and it\u2019s just funny. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut we all know what the agenda is here. It is to try and create an excuse before we release the Budget\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fee8c367488c4a04a7f1adc24355a3b0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. Can I just say to members on my right that the comments may have been provocative and they could have had a quick and short response, but just a barrage is too much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f20badb0ce24c88924b372cf49bda80\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: All I wanted was a photo. The other thing is we\u2019re all hearing about care\u2014that the other side of the House really cares. Do you know how the Labour Party, in particular, is illustrating the care at the moment? It\u2019s to, effectively, re-announce National Party policy as its own, and the humdinger on Friday was this massive announcement of $100 million of funding for housing and homelessness\u2014which is, in fact, less money than National had already committed. There was big talk about Housing First, this amazing new Canadian initiative, and about how Labour\u2019s behind it. They forgot to mention that this was an initiative championed by Amy Adams on this side of the House. It was just a re-announcement of existing policies and, more often than not, underspending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWhat it is, effectively, is a litany of completely broken promises. We\u2019re hearing it around housing and even more around social housing, particularly from Phil Twyford\u2014the whole \u201CWe\u2019re not going to sell any State houses.\u201D Well, how do you build new State houses if you don\u2019t sell some of the existing ones? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI raised it in the House last week. Let\u2019s look again at the T\u0101maki redevelopment project\u2014an amazing, an amazing project. In fact, some of my colleagues from the other side of the House were there. I won\u2019t mention them by name in case they get in trouble from their colleagues. But you don\u2019t build the warm, dry, new State houses without actually having to sell some of the existing State houses. You don\u2019t make houses suitable for larger and smaller families by maintaining the old, damp, mouldy homes, which are not set up for these families. So I\u2019m waiting for that broken promise\u2014because the Government will wake up one of these days and realise that you have to sell some State houses to create the new ones for our people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, the other one that\u2019s coming up\u2014and it\u2019s because the Minister of Health got up\u2014is around this whole issue of GP visits. As you know, I used to chair the Health Committee, which is now, I\u2019m sure, very ably led by another, but Labour was hugely into promising cheaper GP visits, yet here we have already a broken promise. In fact, what we\u2019ve seen in recent days\u2014if I could put my foreign affairs hat on\u2014is that, actually, spending a billion dollars in aid and on a new diplomatic post in Sweden is more important. In fact, there seems to be some sort of feeling\u2014and, I suspect, from the Minister\u2014that, actually, we\u2019re going to be able to compete with China and the Pacific and elsewhere, and their trade, with our sort of measly contribution there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWhere are the priorities of this Government? In fact, we even had the Minister who\u2019s just resumed his chair talking about all the nurses that he met. Well, I am looking forward to that Minister and the Prime Minister confirming to those nurses, as they\u2019ve done in the past, that they will give them a substantial\u2014a substantial\u2014wage increase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, the other element I find as an Auckland MP is the whole broken promise around taxes. Well, they waxed lyrical\u2014I think it sort of waxed boring\u2014around no more taxes, and yet here in Auckland now we\u2019re going to be hit twice in the pocket on a fuel tax: once from the council, who at the moment is sort of prevaricating around the edges, pretending that it\u2019s consulting\u2014no one\u2019s under any allusion that the Auckland Council will proceed with a regional fuel tax\u2014and then we\u2019re going to get hit by the Government. That is over 25c a litre which Aucklanders are going to be paying, and, as I\u2019ve got feedback from my constituents in T\u0101maki, they are all most, the man and the woman, opposed to this. There are some who understandably want their cycle lanes and so forth, but, actually, that\u2019s not the point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EMost people in my electorate are using their cars. They choose to use their cars and they do not want to be paying 25c more, plus the GST that\u2019s going to go on top of that, towards projects which don\u2019t make any sense, such as light rail going down Dominion Road. It makes no sense at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThey can\u2019t even find the money to upgrade the regionally recognised Tamaki Drive, but they can somehow find billions of dollars to put in a little tram route to the airport. Again, even Mike Lee\u2014even Mike Lee from the left\u2014tells us that, actually, heavy rail is the way to go. It\u2019s an absolute dog\u2019s breakfast. There are broken promises after broken promises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019m fascinated to see\u2014well, it\u2019s not really promises; it\u2019s just plain suicide attempts, really, as they take out our oil and gas industry. They have mad ideas around trees, though we\u2019re hearing a bit more about apricot fruits at the moment, so maybe Shane Jones will add those apricot trees. They\u2019re getting rid of the cows and stuff\u2014God knows what sort of country we\u2019re being dragged through. And, seeing the Minister of Defence is here, boy, he\u2019s got a few challenges ahead now in terms of promises as our defence forces remain very keen on the P-8s, and he and I know what it\u2019s like flying in those P-3s. We need those P-8s, Ministers. We need those naval assets, and those in the army want their share of the pie, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m very much looking forward to what should be delivered being delivered, but I\u2019m not holding my breath in this litany of broken promises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00224ce04fa4727d46d3ad9a093c2462643b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ce04fa4727d46d3ad9a093c2462643b\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, I\u2019ll do one better than a photo. I invite\u2014this is a personal invitation\u2014Simon O\u2019Connor to come to Dunedin, and I\u2019ll give him a tour through Dunedin Hospital and show him the leaks. I\u2019ll show him the bits that are roped off because of asbestos, and where you have to wear a hazmat suit to go down to the basement to retrieve any records. I\u2019d happily give him a tour, and I expect him to turn up in Dunedin for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhen the foundations of the new Dunedin Hospital are laid by 2020, this Government can hold its head up high because it has delivered on its promises. That previous National Government sat on its hands and prevaricated and wasted tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, of dollars on countless circular reports with no outcomes\u2014no outcomes. If that party was still in Government, Dunedin would still be waiting for a hospital. It would continue to wait, possibly for decades, because it was going nowhere. Now, Simon Bridges is complaining that we\u2019re moving too fast on Dunedin Hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis Government will deliver for the people of Dunedin. As the KiwiBuild homes gather momentum and a plan for emergency housing is in place; as there are new rules for warm, dry homes; and as there\u2019s a winter energy payment, this Government can hold its head up high, because we have delivered. As the hundreds of thousands of new plantings of forestry are planted, this Government can hold its head up high, because we have delivered. As the regions stir and begin to prosper again with economic plans, with investment in those regions, this Government can hold up its head, because we have delivered. As productivity lifts, as there is an actual economic plan in place, this Government can hold up its head, because we have delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe scale of the challenge that we have is enormous, where there are urgent capital needs in hospitals, ageing school classrooms, and a failure to plan for growth in the education system. There are years of neglect. A multibillion dollar funding gap in Auckland transport, the Christchurch rebuild that is beset by problems\u2014we cannot make up for nine years of neglect with just one Budget, but this is a Budget that sets the foundations. It will set the foundations for that growth, and we will hold our head up high, because we will deliver, and we\u2019ll deliver for all of New Zealand\u2014all of New Zealand, not just some of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWe have a huge infrastructure deficit in New Zealand\u2014bricks and mortar, trains, transport, jobs, and a real economic strategy\u2014but we also have a huge social deficit in this country. Part of that is a culture issue: a culture issue across many of our Government agencies, which is a sick culture, and a culture issue across our regions, which are sick and tired and lacking in hope. These things take time to rebuild. That is what this Government is rebuilding across our country. That is evidenced by the urgent need for a mental health inquiry and by the need for investment in family violence. There\u2019s huge stress on our social services. That\u2019s what this Government will deliver on, and we will hold our heads up high.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhen I camped in my tent in the Octagon last July, in the middle of winter, I had a woman come to me and say that she was told by the Ministry of Social Development to go and buy a tent, and that they might reimburse her. That is the culture that we need to change. That is evidence of the change that needs to happen right across our country to rebuild hope. This Government will deliver on a Budget to reshape the foundations of our economy and our society, and we will deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c67a500cba6341f29aa3941f85b8430a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c67a500cba6341f29aa3941f85b8430a\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Soon, New Zealand will see from this side of the House a party of life, stamina, and energy\u2014a party that reminds New Zealanders that over the last nine years, the other side earned the moniker and earned the reputation of being the dead horse party. Why do I say \u201Cthe dead horse\u201D? Number one, they continue to flog the notion that their policies of giving tax cuts to the rich, starving schools, a monstrous deficit, starving hospitals, a monstrous health deficit, and using the environment as a sewer\u2014consequently, they now are the party of pollution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, pollution is about contamination. That side of the House\u2014not only are they still trying to trot out tired, ill-founded, hopeless ideas, but they have left a spirit of contamination in certain parts of the economy where they believe it\u2019s fine to continue to sell the country to the highest bidders. Those days are over. They thought it was fine to melt down the infrastructure of the country and leave that debt to future generations, which is why\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f1c69b329084069a611b07ae6012dae\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Like Waterview.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226229a6337b2344a9bb612745e08312b6\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Mr Smith. I just see Charles Darwin\u2019s On the Origin of Species book in front of me. In that book, Charles Darwin points out that, occasionally, nature delivers some frightful outcomes\u2014frightful outcomes. If there\u2019s a person in Parliament on the other side of the House who licensed pollution, worsened the prospects of our environment, and enabled the entire farming community to continue to take for granted the fine name of our nation\u2014the social licence that all industries need not only to cherish but to develop\u2014it lies in that sad individual. I don\u2019t want to say any more about Nelson\u2019s product, sending him to Parliament, because the Nelsonians are encouraging me to step forward as the first citizen of the provinces. I have said, \u201CWhat did Mr Smith do for you over nine years? Why do you continue to support him?\u201D That is why I have encouraged the Minister of Education to offer special education in and around that man\u2019s environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EBut let me continue about some of the areas that this Budget must address. Why should we have to defend this tawdry, tawdry record from that side of the House, when they made promises to regional New Zealand but couldn\u2019t find more than $11 million? Well, New Zealand, in a very short period of time you will have not only $1 billion, not only $2 billion, but $3 billion to address the neglect, the sadness, and also the broken promises. But wait\u2014wait! You will also have the opportunity to engage in a project of civic pride\u2014nation-building\u2014called the billion-tree strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, I am not unlike a leopard: I have spots of modesty that are seen from time to time, and as we prowl around the country we find that there are scared rabbits. There are rodents. Why? Because that\u2019s all that\u2019s been left in some areas of our conservation estate\u2014our local, regional areas. But this Government, it is going to spend the money the last crowd refused to. Why? Because we\u2019ve been given a mandate by New Zealander voters to redress and to meet societal arrears that we\u2019ve been left with. It is absolutely appropriate that every time this side of the House stands and speaks, we sheet home the responsibility where it belongs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EBiosecurity is something that lies at the heart of our nation\u2019s wealth-creating capacity. It was an abject failure under the last Government. They stand every day and try and blame Damien O\u2019Connor. Why did you short the funding? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a4d2aa2e0ab4cac8c801459cbd3955e\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s you. That\u2019s him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4b9128bebcc4477b69235266d291ce4\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Why did you refuse to deliver an appropriate level of funding? It\u2019s a sad occasion when Mr Guy stands up, limply trying to criticise the champion of the West Coast, when he had every opportunity, and his politics and his intellect are like the rear teat on the udder. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u002287e52f1430f548e6a6b15bc7cf0fec6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287e52f1430f548e6a6b15bc7cf0fec6c\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO (Minister for Pacific Peoples):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to follow the \u201CFirst Citizen of the Regions\u201D. In that same vein, I now want to turn to the \u201CFirst Citizen of the Pacific\u201D. Yesterday a historic event took place in the halls of this Parliament, when the Rt Hon Winston Peters, the Deputy Prime Minister, delivered a speech entitled \u201CFirst Steps\u201D. This follows from a recent visit led by the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern and Winston Peters round the Pacific, which we call the \u201CPacific reset\u201D. I want to acknowledge that this is a significant step, even though members on the other side of the House may not see it as such. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EYou see, Pacific peoples are an integral part of this country of ours. More than 62 percent of the 400,000 Pasifika people who call New Zealand home are born here. This is their home. This is their t\u016Brangawaewae, yet their historic connections to the region, to the islands, is similar to when urban M\u0101ori return to the marae or when urban M\u0101ori return to their iwi. For somebody like myself, if somebody dies in the family, we return them to our ancestral homes in the Pacific; we return them to our cultural lands in the Pacific. So that\u2019s the context. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI think it really is significant that when we are talking about the essential foundational building blocks for New Zealand\u2014in terms of housing, health, education, and lifting incomes for the residents of New Zealand\u2014by its very nature and the connections of the Pacific people, we also must talk about the Pacific region. I feel that as a proud New Zealand citizen of Pacific heritage, I feel like I should be standing at the top of M\u0101ngere Mountain and shouting from the rooftop about what occurred yesterday. It\u2019s not well-known by this region. The other side will throw stones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eec68e16162b4f28af2879e55a05f34b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, we\u2019ve got a slight clock problem. Two minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d87c9e0d7e254564a9e3a982f1c07a0f\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s all right. Just give me five minutes then, Mr Speaker. The other side will throw stones, as if somehow we\u2019re providing some sort of a beneficiary to the Pacific. That is not so. That is so far from the truth. The word that they are missing is \u201Creciprocation\u201D\u2014\u201Creciprocation\u201D. It is never to the benefit to the Pacific; it\u2019s usually benefiting New Zealand. It\u2019s trade that benefits New Zealand; it\u2019s the sports athleticism of the Pacific that benefits New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThose family connections are so important but, more importantly, as the Prime Minister, Jacinda, has often said and was repeated\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e705b2cf11944acbdeae6456e0a6ee1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Prime Minister\u2019s full name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022470151c788ac44c29a2cf27651280a17\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: The Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern has said that climate change is the nuclear-free challenge of her generation. It is self-evident\u2014we saw that with her carrying a child. She is speaking for the future generations yet unborn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EFor the Pacific there is a sense of urgency. All of us who have family connection to Tuvalu, to Kiribati, to Tokelau\u2014we are fearful of what will happen to those islands if the world does not get on board and reduce their carbon emissions. Now, we are doing all we can as a nation, but evidently we\u2019ve also got to be looking to the Pacific region, because the emergency that I fear will occur at some stage if the world does not recognise the point of no return is that islands such as Tuvalu, Tokelau, and Kiribati will be knocking at our doorstep. That investment is about not just investing in the Pacific but also in investing for our security, investing for the betterment of New Zealand going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00223eafdf0a7a904436bd7522d40198d0d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223eafdf0a7a904436bd7522d40198d0d8\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E It is just so telling that not a single Government member, including the Minister that\u2019s just resumed his seat, the Hon Aupito William Sio, has been able to answer the question that\u2019s on the minds of every New Zealander and member of this House, and that is: why has the Government prioritised diplomats over doctors? Why have they been prepared to spend hundreds of millions of dollars\u2014nearly a billion dollars\u2014on indulging the ego of Mr Winston Peters rather than meeting the commitment that that member and every other member of the Labour Party made to New Zealanders over the cost of going to a doctor on 1 July.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be really specific about what Jacinda Ardern promised. She said that on 1 July every New Zealander would pay $10 less to go to the GP, and we\u2019ve now had the Minister of Health admit that that promise\u2014that was repeated tens of thousands of times in advertisements, it was in the leaders\u2019 debate, and it was repeated by Labour candidates up and down New Zealand\u2014is being ratted on. Well, I\u2019ll give some advice to members opposite: ratting on promises is political suicide. We saw it with the Labour Government. We saw it with the Labour Government back in the days when it sold assets when it said it would not. I openly confess over the issue of surtax. It was highly erosive, and that is why\u2014that is why\u2014the Clark Government and the Key Government were so careful to say what they mean, to mean what they say, and to deliver on those commitments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo I say to the new Labour member down the back there: what\u2019s your excuse for breaking your word; for telling people to vote Labour on the basis of cheaper doctors\u2019 visits, when the Government\u2019s not 12 months old and it\u2019s ratting on that promise? And to rub salt in the wound, members opposite are saying opening a new embassy in Stockholm to pay for gin and to pay for cucumber sandwiches is more important than Kiwi families being able to get to the GP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s just remember the background: our party introduced free doctors\u2019 visits for under-fives. We said we would extend that, in the 2014 election, to under-13s by 1 July 2015, and we did it on time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fe54bc265464abba238d6999e65286c\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re not correct; 2005\u2019s supply and confidence agreement\u2014New Zealand First and Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b711f8636bf44716afd873f8cf61029e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: What is the excuse, Tracey Martin? What is the excuse for your Government breaking its word? How often have I listened to comments from New Zealand First that said that honouring your word is all-important? Well, of course, New Zealand First will be more interested in indulging the ego of Winston Peters than in the Labour-led Government doing what it said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe remember. You see, we\u2019ve been round this paddock before. The Labour - New Zealand First Government, in 2006, poured hundreds of millions of dollars into the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, and you know what\u2019s interesting? Look at the books\u2014they couldn\u2019t spend the largesse that was given to them. They underspent in 2006, in 2007, and in 2008\u2014they were so awash with cash. So what we have is a Government that is more interested in feeding the ego of Mr Peters than helping families get to the doctor and helping families in the way in which they said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis is shaping up as the \u201CBudget of broken promise\u201D. We\u2019ve seen it in housing, we\u2019ve seen it on the fuel tax, but it\u2019s no more graphically illustrated than their promises over doctors visits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3dd1c6500de4cbda0fad80c6e67586b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3dd1c6500de4cbda0fad80c6e67586b\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E What a pleasure it is to follow on from the Minister who presided over the biggest housing crisis that this country has ever seen. His main criticism seemed to be that this Government is planning on doing more than one thing at a time, and I can tell that Minister that this Government will be delivering better health services as well as delivering a foreign service that is capable of building and enhancing our country\u2019s reputation on the world stage. Of course, it\u2019s understandable to hear that from that Minister, because he was incapable of doing the one thing that the people of New Zealand needed him to do, which was to build the affordable homes that our families lack so badly. At the end of that Government\u2019s time in office, the homeownership rate in this country was the lowest since 1951\u2014that is the record of that member, and that is the record of that Government, which we have, thankfully, replaced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI am very pleased to be here just one week away from the new Labour-led Government\u2019s first Budget in office, and what a Budget it is going to be. We\u2019re going to rebuild the social, the economic, and the infrastructure foundations of New Zealand that have been left so tattered and so underfunded under that previous Government. I just want to speak about a few of those important foundations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe first one is having foundations for a transport system that finally gets Auckland / T\u0101maki-makau-rau, our biggest city, moving after years of gridlock and neglect under that Government. What a great thing it was to see the Minister of Finance, Grant Robertson, and the Minister of Housing and Urban Development and Transport, Phil Twyford, standing up today, only six months after this Government was sworn into office, with a fully-funded $28 billion infrastructure plan to get Auckland moving, and that sits alongside a transport plan for all of our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re going to invest to make sure that we have safer roads to get the record road toll down, that was left to drift upwards under that Government. We\u2019re going to invest in our regions because they deserve safe roads, good regional rail, and proper transport networks as well. We\u2019re going to invest in urban growth because, unlike that party over there that has such a myopic, conservative, and miserable vision of our cities, we believe in investing in urban growth so that we have international cities that can compete on the world scene and that have high-quality public transport. We are going to get Auckland moving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI just want to add one thing on that note: one member on that side of the House who I haven\u2019t heard any criticism of the light rail plan from is, of course, the Hon Nikki Kaye. I suspect that she is about the one member in that caucus who actually understands some of the urban growth issues that Auckland faces as the MP for Auckland Central, and I look forward to her contribution and seeing whether she rubbishes the light rail scheme as much as her colleagues on that side of the House have today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe Budget next week is going to build the foundations for the health and well-being of all New Zealanders, and one of the things that I am most proud of is that this Budget is going to put our kids first. This Government has actually got the spine, has actually got the gumption, to embed in our Budget targets for child well-being and reducing the stain of child poverty in our country. That is something that grew under that Government over nine years. It\u2019s a problem they wished away. It\u2019s a problem they wouldn\u2019t face up to. It\u2019s words that they wouldn\u2019t even utter\u2014they couldn\u2019t utter the words \u201Chousing crisis\u201D; they couldn\u2019t utter the words \u201Cchild poverty\u201D. This Government says we acknowledge those problems, after nine years of neglect, and we are going to do something about them, and we\u2019re going to hold ourselves to account to them as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe health and well-being foundations that we are rebuilding have been mentioned, as well, by colleagues like Clare Curran, who\u2019s pointed to the $1.5 billion investment in Dunedin Hospital. We believe that people, no matter what part of this country they are living in, deserve access to modern, First World, first-class health services\u2014that is the ambition of this Government. Yet as I sat in the Finance and Expenditure Committee with some of my colleagues in the Chamber this morning and we read through and heard from Treasury on their four-yearly Investment Statement, we heard that 19 percent of the buildings in our health sector are rated by Treasury\u2014by Treasury themselves, not by the Labour Party; by Treasury, who have looked at this independently\u2014as not being fit for purpose. Through our investments in health and education we are going to undo that record of neglect as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to say that we are going to rebuild the foundations so that every single New Zealander has a warm, dry, and decent place to sleep. We\u2019ve invested, already, $100 million in emergency housing to make sure that we don\u2019t have the scandal of homeless people dying on park benches again this winter because of neglect and homelessness, and we are going to work to make sure that every single family in this beautiful country has a decent place to live. We\u2019re proud to be rebuilding those foundations. Mr Speaker, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0441fd309814ba38d63a8ab327191a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0441fd309814ba38d63a8ab327191a2\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I think the last week can be best summarised with the four Cs: carpet, cows, compensation, and cost. So let\u2019s go through those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIn terms of the carpet, this is all about Winston Peters gaining $900 million through Budget 2018 to ensure that there\u2019s New Zealand carpet in every embassy and high commission around the world. Can\u2019t you imagine that Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade officials will be coming into his office saying, \u201CHere we are, Minister. Can you select a carpet for the embassy in Sweden. It\u2019s all New Zealand wool.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThis is all about Winston Peters\u2019 retirement. When he goes up, in retirement, into the Pacific, he\u2019ll get one of those flash titles, and he\u2019ll be able to swan around the Pacific and they\u2019ll all say, \u201COh, Mr Peters. Isn\u2019t it fantastic what you\u2019ve done for us?\u201D Yes, we admit more needs to be done in the Pacific, but surely you would think that cheaper GP visits would be more important to New Zealanders than opening an embassy in Sweden.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThen, if we move to the next aspect which has been the focus on cows this week, we had David Parker on Q\u002BA actually musing on the fact that he wants to see a cow cap. He would really quite like to see one million less cows in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca88efe76839407eabb1d6a0b153ea7b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Fewer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d638fbfe6e5e49d99a9e64ecbc30989a\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Fewer cows in New Zealand. When you equate that right through, that would cost about $3 billion. Then, if you roll that through those big dairying regions in New Zealand, that is a massive cost and job losses in regional New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI want to know where New Zealand First are in this whole debate. We don\u2019t hear from them. The so-called provincial champion of the region, Shane Jones\u2014what do New Zealand First think about a cow cap? What we haven\u2019t heard is the Government acknowledging the great work that New Zealand dairy farmers have already done: excluding livestock from waterways, riparian planting, nutrient budgets\u2014the list goes on\u2014upgrading their effluent system. That is all lost in this debate. Yes, farmers need to do more, but so does business and so does urban New Zealand. The most polluted water body is in downtown Auckland. Is that acknowledged? No it isn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThen we move to compensation and costs\u2014and this is where you get interesting politics to do with Mycoplasma bovis. This is a big issue for the Government, and now it\u2019s about political management\u2014political management for overseeing fast and fair compensation for farmers. It\u2019s been too slow. The banks are circling. The Ministry for Primary Industries won\u2019t give a letter of intent to the banks to say that compensation is coming. Farmers are hurting. We\u2019ve had an example this afternoon in the House from Lawrence Yule, whereby one of his farming constituents was saying he couldn\u2019t even purchase rugby boots for his family to get to sport on the weekend or buy a washing machine for their family home. This is what is happening because the Government is not ensuring that compensation is happening fast enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAlso, we had an example last week where the Minister Damien O\u2019Connor got the cattle industries into his office and said, \u201CDon\u2019t worry about the Government-industry agreement (GIA) that you\u2019ve signed up to.\u201D\u2014and 16 organisations have, which is all to do with a framework for funding biosecurity response and costs and things like that\u2014\u201CThat\u2019s all out the window. I need you to pay 40 or 50 percent of these costs.\u201D That is not fair. That is outside the mandate that Cabinet agreed to in 2013, and industry and farmers and growers are now wondering whether the GIA is actually on toast\u2014whether it\u2019s going to be parked up because of political interference. These organisations went back to their farmers and growers before they signed up and said, \u201CWe need a mandate to sign.\u201D So I will be fascinated to see, when they get back in the Minister\u2019s office in the next week or two, whether they get bullied by the Minister to pay even more than what they should. Yes, we realise this is a big cost on the Government, but it\u2019s hugely important\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002272d5eab658554c2fb9778125b11b4470\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272d5eab658554c2fb9778125b11b4470\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u002223d76bc9f3874100a8143e564d424f3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223d76bc9f3874100a8143e564d424f3d\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. He aha te mea nui o te ao? He tangata, he tangata, he tangata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E[What is the most important thing in the world? It is people, it is people, it is people.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EIt is with pride that I rise today to take my first call and contribute to a general debate, and it is indeed with pride that I speak in this week, in the lead up to this Labour-led Government\u2019s first Budget announcement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EBefore I begin, though, I just want to address a point made by the previous speaker, Nathan Guy, who\u2019s just resumed his seat, who, basically, has been quite vocal about the fact that he feels this Government cannot both invest in foreign affairs and also in the health sector. I\u2019d just like to point out to him that we are the Government of \u201Cand\u201D and \u201Cand\u201D. We actually can invest in multiple sectors to make sure that all New Zealanders are better off. If he thinks that trade and that foreign affairs are not important to us, to New Zealanders, he should actually talk to some of his colleagues who were part of the delegation that, in fact, you led, Mr Speaker, recently, where we went overseas and talked about opportunities for New Zealand, many of them trade opportunities, from the point of view that we are a small country, that we are geographically distant, and that we are heavily reliant on trade\u2014and it is important for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThat leads me, actually, to my next point, which is this. During the campaign trail\u2014and we\u2019ve heard from members opposite what members on this side of the House have been talking about up and down the country on the campaign trail\u2014I\u2019d just like to remind them that their candidates waxed lyrical about the fact that New Zealand has enjoyed a strong economy. I just want to say this: it\u2019s true, but the problem is that too few New Zealanders have benefited from that strong economy. On this side of the House, we do believe, in fact, that we need a strong economy here in New Zealand, because we believe strongly in shared prosperity. We cannot invest in the sectors that have seen nine years of underfunding and neglect if we don\u2019t have a strong economy\u2014and we get that. What we want to focus on, though, and what this Budget will lay the foundation for, is an investment in our people\u2014which is the whakatauk\u012B that I started with. What\u2019s the most important thing in the world? It\u2019s our people, it\u2019s our people, it\u2019s our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EAs I stand here today and I look forward to what our Budget announcements will be, I reflect on the stories that people have told me of their lives. I reflect on the young mother I met in Maungakiekie who had moved overseas, like many; started a family; came back home to New Zealand with her children; and moved in with her family as a temporary measure, thinking, you know, \u201CThis is the suburb I\u2019ve grown up in. I want to be close to my family. I\u2019ll find a house and move into that.\u201D A year later, when I met her, she was still sharing the three-bedroom house with 16 other people. She was afraid to uproot her children again from school and move somewhere else, because she couldn\u2019t actually find a place to rent that she could afford, in a suburb that was one of the most affordable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI think back to the principals of low-decile schools who have told me about their children coming to school hungry, who can\u2019t concentrate. Where\u2019s the learning if a child goes to school without any food? That is what we heard today as I sat through submission after submission on the Child Poverty Reduction Bill. People who work in the sector told us how poverty affects children\u2019s cognition, ability to function, health, and every potential indicator\u2014every indicator\u2014of the people that they are and the people that they are going to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI reflect on the international students who are sold one story, come to New Zealand, and find that the qualification that they end up with will neither get them a job here nor back home, but whose families are so entrenched in debt because they believed that they were sending their kids to New Zealand to get a world-class education. Our export education is actually a brilliant thing, but was jeopardised by the actions of the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI think back to the small-business owners who have been robbed, who were assaulted, and who live in fear each morning as they open their shops that that will be the day that the offenders come back to finish their jobs. And I reflect on the fact that at a time when crime was actually increasing, the previous Government reduced police numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI think back to the time that I spent in the family violence sector, where, as the member Jan Logie pointed out, often there were only two of us to work with women who were in incredibly unsafe positions, who have lauded this Government\u2019s announcement of the first significant funding boost in 10 years. I reflect on the fact that this will be a Government of kindness and investment. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022796e88b7918848c1a1f848efbc2d6618\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022796e88b7918848c1a1f848efbc2d6618\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would just like to remind the member who just spoke, Priyanca Radhakrishnan, and gave the Hon Nathan Guy a barrel about trade that the party on the opposite who is now the Government\u2014or part of the Government\u2014actually stood against the Trans-Pacific Partnership when we were trying to do it last year. And I would also like to make a comment\u2014again, the Hon Nathan Guy brought up about the wool carpets. And every question I\u2019ve put in to the Minister for primary industries about wool has come back very vacant about what\u2019s happening with wool, and I have to say that was a broken promise that the New Zealand First Party were talking about\u2014wool carpets\u2014and they can\u2019t call themselves the provincial champions when they go round breaking promises like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EBut what I really want to talk about today is the golden egg. That Government over the other side talks about the golden egg. It\u2019s welfare. OK. We\u2019re going to give everybody everything! I know there\u2019s a fable out there, and perhaps this Government could learn a lesson about the goose and the golden egg. This Government is going through the process of killing off the geese that are laying the golden eggs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EAnd the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, who\u2019s over there, was at the same farmers\u2019 forum that I was at yesterday, and the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor would\u2019ve probably heard Cameron Bagrie giving his presentation in the morning. I don\u2019t know if the Minister was there for that part of the presentation, but the message was that we are going to end up with a growth void.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EYes, we have to change. Every industry is looking at change, and every industry accepts that climate change exists, but we cannot jump to the idealistic state, and that is exactly what this Government is trying to do. We are going to end up with a growth void, and we are going to end up having no money to fund the social policies that this Government believes that they are going to fund. We will not change the climate of the world by killing our economy. We have to come down to scale.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EWe forget how small we are. We forget that we have some of the most efficient farmers in the world. And while we might not be a large country, we have a large, large impact on the export market. So what happens if we kill that goose that lays that golden egg? We will have less efficient farmers across the world supplying food products, and guess what that\u2019s going to do for climate change? Absolutely nothing. It won\u2019t reverse it, and it will probably, at some point, increase it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI want to say the same thing, although this message has been said time and time again in this House, and doesn\u2019t seem to be getting to the other side, which is that if we cut off our gas supplies, which are going to cut off much quicker than what this Government believes they are\u2014because what happens is the horses are being spooked, and we can stand here and think, \u201COh, well, that\u2019s fine. We\u2019ve got 30 years.\u201D Actually, those permits do go out 30 years, but if we don\u2019t build that bridge and we don\u2019t get that transition, we are going to have a growth void. Because do you think that some of those companies are going to hang around in this country for 30 years and wait? And some of the science that we need to solve some of our issues doesn\u2019t even exist yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ESo yesterday we heard that horticulture is going to be the answer to everything, and our leader, the Hon Simon Bridges, asked the Prime Minister about horticulture and who is actually going to be the people who are going to harvest the apricots. So another broken promise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EWe talk about immigration. We heard a lot during the election about immigration and about how we\u2019re going to cut the numbers in immigration. And, hold on! We\u2019ve got nobody\u2014nobody\u2014who\u2019s going to be wanting to pick our fruit. We\u2019ve got nobody\u2014we\u2019ve had people getting up and talking about no jobs in regional New Zealand. Well, tell somebody who doesn\u2019t go there that. Because I\u2019ve got jobs in my electorate for plumbers and electricians and truck drivers and you name it\u2014farmers, all those sorts of people. We have got to get our students and our children transitioning out of school into those jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ESo the warning is that this may be a nuclear moment for the Prime Minister\u2019s generation, but if the geese that are giving us the golden eggs kill our economy and then fail to reduce climate change, then it well may be a nuclear moment\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f3a9cd62aaaa4a0d97c1b431758e7280\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d8a2b7653b84a1896d83b5bdd938608\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022d00b295ab0404dfc8fe4538479378381\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d00b295ab0404dfc8fe4538479378381\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, That the Accident Compensation Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Education and Workforce Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s no-fault accident compensation scheme is a national treasure, and the envy of many other countries. Overwhelmingly, people who are injured receive an excellent service from ACC in terms of their treatment and their rehabilitation. This Government is committed to ensuring that the accident compensation scheme remains fair, transparent, and accessible for all claimants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EFor the most part, these changes are at the boundaries of the system, rather than at the core. I\u2019ve asked officials to take a careful look at ways to improve the scheme, with the intention to bring a substantive bill to the House late this year or early next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWhile policy work on that broader package is under way, a pressing issue that needs to be addressed immediately has arisen, and I\u2019ve taken the opportunity at the same time to make a series of other useful changes. The cumulative effect of these changes is to make the scheme fairer and kinder to groups on the margin of coverage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis bill addresses a gap in ACC coverage for families of employees who are posted overseas in the course of their employment. I believe this is an important change to make, as we do not want to discourage people from representing New Zealand\u2019s interests offshore if they feel that they cannot keep their families together without risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EEmployees who represent New Zealand in both our public affairs and private industry contribute a range of benefits to New Zealand\u2019s economy and international relations. It is reasonable for employees and their family to be living together overseas while they carry out their employment duties. If these family members were in New Zealand and had an accident, they would receive full entitlement for any injuries. This is a return to how the issue was dealt with under previous Acts, and would return the spirit of those provisions to capture family units and dependants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe Act was amended rather mysteriously in 1998, and there is no intact legislative record behind the reason for the change. The agencies working overseas are concerned that this gap may be a hurdle to filling overseas placements. I propose that these amendments should be retrospective to the date of the previous change. While there is a presumption that retrospective legislation should be avoided, the presumption does not apply in the same way where, as here, a benefit is being provided rather than a right removed. The Attorney-General is comfortable with the retrospectivity of this proposal, and ACC is best placed to deal with any historic claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis amendment applies to the existing coverage extension for a small group of people posted overseas. The existing cover does not include people who choose to work remotely offshore for lifestyle or convenience reasons or are participating in Volunteer Service Abroad programmes. I do not consider that there is a strong rationale for extending the scheme beyond New Zealand employees, and this approach aligns with the core principles of ACC as a replacement for the right to sue and an injury safety net in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis bill also makes a number of other changes. It amends the interface between weekly compensation and superannuation to provide for fairer transitions for those people who are injured near to retirement age. This means that people will be able to receive up to two years of weekly compensation and superannuation before transitioning on to superannuation. It is important to remember that treatment and rehabilitation does not cease based on age. This will provide a fairer, more consistent relationship between weekly compensation and superannuation to provide for fairer transitions for those people who are injured near retirement age. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe amendments to the interface between weekly compensation and superannuation align with our commitment to review the restrictions on superannuitants being able to receive both weekly compensation and New Zealand superannuation, given the changing nature of work for the over-65 workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EOne of the amendments relating to this interface addresses the declaration of inconsistency by the Human Rights Review Tribunal that the requirement to elect between weekly compensation and superannuation was discriminatory on the basis of age. I\u2019m pleased to be introducing an amendment that responds positively to this declaration. This amendment will mean that a client\u2019s entitlement to weekly compensation as a surviving spouse or partner will no longer be affected by whether they are also receiving weekly compensation. Most surviving spouses or partners, including those of superannuation qualification age or older, will be entitled to a maximum of five years of weekly compensation based on their deceased spouse\u2019s or partner\u2019s earnings at the time of the fatal injury. This will ensure consistency and fairness between the entitlements received by surviving spouses regardless of age.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis bill disestablishes the historic Accident Compensation Appeal Authority, as maintaining a separate authority is no longer cost-effective or efficient, given the low number of appeals to the authority. This amendment is in line with this Government\u2019s intentions to remove the complexity in costs that sometimes arises as to whether the authority or the District Court should hear an appeal. Following the disestablishment of the authority, all new appeals under the repealed Acts will be heard by the District Court. This will ensure that claimants\u2019 rights are maintained. I\u2019ve also included in the bill some minor and technical amendments that will increase ACC\u2019s operational efficiency and improve the workability of biennial levy rounds. It is important that we take these opportunities for regulatory maintenance to ensure the effectiveness and efficiency of regulatory systems in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EAs a final point, I would like to acknowledge the work of the Hon Michael Woodhouse as the previous Minister for ACC. Many of the policy proposals in this bill were developed and worked under his watch as Minister. They are a good start to the direction of travel that I plan for the scheme. I look forward to the discussion of these important matters, and I encourage people to consider submitting their views about the bill to the Education and Workforce Committee. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff8c10b8bb714d90aa4bde20fb71321e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff8c10b8bb714d90aa4bde20fb71321e\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. May I begin by congratulating the Hon Iain Lees-Galloway for bringing his first piece of ACC-related legislation to the House since the change of Government. But I also thank him for acknowledging the fact that\u2014as I think is quite notable\u2014this is yet another piece of legislation that, essentially, will move to enact measures that were commenced under the previous National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EOf course, while they are important, nevertheless, they tend to be, and might even be, fairly technical and, in some cases, minor amendments to the primary legislation that, as I say, were in the pipeline and probably just couldn\u2019t achieve the degree of priority in the legislative programme of the previous Government. But because the new Government has so little work of its own to bring to this House, they are only too happy to pick up the National Party\u2019s good ideas and progress them. I\u2019d also like to endorse the Minister\u2019s praise of our ACC regime, which, as he\u2019s rightly noted, is the envy of many other countries and jurisdictions around the world. So if they were under any sort of doubt, let me put them out of their suspense at this moment by confirming that the National Party will of course be supporting this very sensible bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI note that the Minister, in his introductory comments, indicated that part of the intention of the bill is to make it kinder and fairer for New Zealanders posted overseas. So I have to say that I am even more disappointed that the Minister and his colleagues didn\u2019t see fit just three weeks ago, on a members\u2019 day, to support an equally sensible and closely related measure\u2014the Accident Compensation (Recent Migrants and Returning New Zealanders) Amendment Bill, which was advanced by my very good colleague Melissa Lee\u2014because that particular bill was designed to fix an anomaly which prohibits migrants and returning New Zealanders from receiving ACC\u2019s support once they reach superannuation age. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI dare say those who may be listening to this debate outside the House at the moment may even be a little bit confused as to why that particular measure doesn\u2019t count, given the comments we have just had from the Minister, because had Ms Lee\u2019s bill been adopted, it would have addressed the anomaly\u2014which seems, to me, to be very unfair\u2014that a number of returning New Zealanders, migrants, and citizens are currently ineligible for weekly compensation because they cannot qualify for the residential criteria. However, as I said, Labour and their coalition partners and confidence and supply partners voted that measured down, so I have to say that that means that one aspect of unfairness will remain in place under this particular piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut, nevertheless, we do have an opportunity through this Accident Compensation Amendment Bill to make minor but necessary changes to the principal legislation. As I\u2019ve said, the proposals are sensible. They are changes that had been identified under the previous Government. They were in the pipeline, and there are aspects that some of my colleagues will cover in more detail later in this debate, but I just want to comment on the fact that the amendments in the bill were identified partly through the regulatory systems work programme of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EFor the benefit, again, of those who may be listening outside the House, it\u2019s the chief executive\u2019s responsibility under the State Sector Act 1988, section 32, for the chief executive to assist relevant Ministers with the regulatory stewardship of the legislation that the ministry administers. That may sound like a little bit of a mouthful, but it then explains why these particular provisions have been identified. They include\u2014I won\u2019t go through all of them\u2014removing the election requirement for ACC clients to choose between weekly compensation and New Zealand superannuation after being entitled to a year of both, amending the current provisions to ensure that all clients who are close to or above superannuation qualification age receive up to 24 months of weekly compensation, allowing surviving spouses to receive up to five years of weekly compensation regardless of age, and disestablishing the Accident Compensation Appeal Authority, which hears cases under the 1972 and 1982 accident compensation legislation, and my colleague Dr Reti will be dwelling on that particular provision in more detail later in this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe bill addresses fairness and sustainability issues, as the Minister has already identified. It includes an amendment that will treat the spouses, partners, children, and other dependants of New Zealand workers posted overseas who suffer an injury consistently with how they would have been treated had the injury occurred while they were living in New Zealand. That is important, because coverage would primarily be on return to New Zealand, as ACC doesn\u2019t usually cover overseas treatment costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe Veterans\u2019 Support Act of 2014 includes a mirror accident compensation scheme for veterans that is aligned with entitlements provided in the Accident Compensation Act of 2001. Also, the bill proposes a consequential amendment to Part 1 of the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act. The proposed amendment is clearly beneficial for older people and will provide for a fairer and more consistent relationship between weekly compensation and superannuation by allowing an injured person\u2019s financial situation to more closely reflect their income had they not been injured, because those people who continue to work past New Zealand superannuation qualification age are able to receive superannuation alongside any earnings from work, and that, of course, is one of the features that the Minister was referring to when he said that our provision is so envied in other parts of the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo, as I\u2019ve said, most of the bill responds to measures that have been recommended to the Government. They arise from the New Zealand Productivity Commission\u2019s June 2014 report Regulatory institutions and practices. I think the Minister has given a very comprehensive introduction to the overall features of the bill. Other speakers, I know, will elucidate some of the other factors. I have to get off to a select committee now, so I will leave it at that, and I warmly welcome the introduction of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022e83752c2c51e40459563092ec3add232\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e83752c2c51e40459563092ec3add232\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Associate Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks, Mr Assistant Speaker. The ACC scheme was implemented by the third Labour Government in 1974. It\u2019s had constant improvement since then, under Labour Governments, and it\u2019s based on principle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EJust with a quick reference to Tim Macindoe\u2019s\u2014the previous speaker\u2014mention of a member\u2019s bill, the reason that that was opposed by this Government was because of a principle and consistency of a principle. Principles-based legislation is what we should be doing, and I think there is general agreement that this is a principles-based amendment to a piece of legislation. A more substantive piece of legislation is coming down the track, which needs to be based on principle and which needs to take the time to do that rather than be rushed. So we\u2019ve commended the previous National Government for the preparatory work that was done on this. We\u2019re now taking that through because we agree with the principles behind it, and that is as it should be, because for all of those who suffer personal injury caused by accident, whatever the cause, New Zealand needs to continue to lead the world in providing universal, comprehensive, no-fault coverage for all physical injuries. Those principles will be continued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EOne of the anomalies that this piece of legislation corrects is the cover for dependants of New Zealand workers posted overseas. Now, it\u2019s an obvious thing to correct. Also, it\u2019s not a huge number of people affected, but the anomaly is actually quite curious. What really piqued my interest was that while this was the norm until 1998, it\u2019s unknown as to the reasons and rationale for the change to take away that right in 1998. Now, 1998, it\u2019s not that long ago\u201420 years ago\u2014but the rationale for that change is unknown because the parliamentary record does not preserve it. The result has been that some agencies with posted workers have been forced to look for cover arrangements that were difficult or even impossible to find, and that has resulted in a discrimination situation. ACC, obviously, is best placed to manage these claims. People are posted overseas because they\u2019re working for an agency\u2014foreign affairs, immigration, whatever\u2014and they\u2019re doing a job on behalf of their country, and, as a result of that, they need to have their families with them. Therefore, their families should not be disadvantaged as a result. So one of the core things that this legislation is doing is correcting that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe other thing that this legislation is looking at is retrospectivity for that, back to 1998, which is an unusual and rare step for retrospectivity to be covered off in a piece of legislation. I think, in this case, there\u2019s a very strong element of fairness and principle that lies behind it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAnother element of fairness and principle relates to the bill responding to a declaration by the Human Rights Review Tribunal forcing surviving spouses of partners to choose between New Zealand superannuation and ACC survivors\u2019 payments, which is discriminatory on the basis of age. I would imagine that most electorate MPs in this House would\u2019ve had people into their offices over the years\u2014I certainly know that I have over my nine-and-a-bit years in Parliament\u2014where they have faced making that choice and have felt disadvantaged as a result, whether it be their spouses or actual people making that choice themselves. This bill, again, will correct that anomaly and make it a lot fairer by removing the election requirement for ACC claimants to choose between weekly compensation and New Zealand super after receiving a year of both, clarifying the current transitional provisions to ensure that all claimants who are close to or above superannuation qualification age receive up to 24 months of weekly compensation. This is to enable a fair transition, and I think, again, this goes back to a principle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIt also goes back to the principles that, generally, this Government is basing its whole strategy and plan around, and those are fairness and decency. And this piece of legislation\u2014while the previous speaker, Tim Macindoe, criticises us for introducing a measure the previous Government started, surely nobody could argue that legislation that has been properly thought-out and that is correcting anomalies that are unfair should not go ahead. I think it\u2019s the mark of a responsible Government to be doing this as quickly as possible, because anomalies in legislation that have created disadvantage, particularly for people who are posted overseas, doing a job in behalf of their country, and for older New Zealanders who are forced into a situation of having to make an unfair choice\u2014these things are important to correct and to not leave hanging around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ESo, ultimately, this legislation is a precursor to a more substantive piece of work that is being worked on now with more fundamental changes to the Act, and that will be coming either later this year or early next year. I\u2019d like to think that the previous Government, the now Opposition, will treat that in good faith in terms of the principles that it will be based on as well. So I commend this bill to the House and look forward to discussion in select committee and hearing what comes out of the select committee to make our world-famous ACC scheme even better and fairer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4d431c8e1bc44cf844f7390d5c4f92f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4d431c8e1bc44cf844f7390d5c4f92f\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak to the Accident Compensation Amendment Bill. As I was looking at this bill, there were three big parts that struck me, and I will particularly spend some time on the last, as my colleague, the ACC spokesperson for the Opposition, the Hon Tim Macindoe, alluded to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI think the first part has been well canvassed by previous speakers, that this bill takes into account compensation for New Zealanders who qualify as ordinary residents who are paying New Zealand tax who go offshore and suffer personal injury by accident. It covers their children, spouses, and dependants. That\u2019s clearly a good thing. I think there\u2019s also some tidy-up of the relationship between claimants and superannuation, as they come to the age of superannuation and when they qualify. This bill tidies that up. But I particularly want to apply myself to the disestablishment of the Accident Compensation Appeal Authority, look at what that\u2019s about, and give a cautionary word from some work done three or four years ago by the Hon Nikki Kaye that might want to be discussed in select committee, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESo if we focus on that, the disestablishment of the ACC appeal authority, the reasons for that are several fold. First of all, the extension is that it will then go to the District Court. The reasons behind that are that when they consulted stakeholders, stakeholders said, \u201CLook, we don\u2019t want specialist tribunals; we\u2019d like a consistent court process.\u201D\u2014firstly. Secondly, the appeal authority hears very few cases, and the burden of two different appeals bodies is quite significant. Well, just how few? If we go into public domain and look at what the appeal authority has actually looked at, in 2015, there were 14 cases; in 2016, there were six; in 2017, just one; and there\u2019s been none to date. So that\u2019s 21 cases over nearly 3\u00BD years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EFurthermore, if we look at the last case that was litigated with the appeal authority on 9 March 2017, the guts to this case is it\u2019s an application for leave to appeal an out-of-time decision. So we can see the sorts of cases that the appeal authority has been dealing with. They tended to deal with situations that applied to old legislation, and, as we can see, the numbers got less and less\u201421 cases over the past four years. So, I think it\u2019s a fair argument to say, \u201CFew cases\u2014maybe we don\u2019t need the appeal authority.\u201D I think it was also complicating having two appeal bodies: the District Court and the appeal authority, and there is certainly a strengthening of process with all appeals going through the District Court registry. It ensures that all interactions are with the same body and heard by District Court judges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ENow, before we get to the appeals process, we just want to reflect for a moment on all the steps that are taken before you actually get to appeal\u2014and there\u2019s a number of them. There\u2019s an internal independent review. Sometimes, that then goes to alternate disputes resolution; other times, it then goes to the true independent review often carried out by FairWay Resolution. From there, from that stage, if there\u2019s still not satisfaction, it then was either going to the District Court or to the appeal authority. Now, I think an interesting piece of work in this area was done by Nikki Kaye in 2015, where she looked at abolishing the District Court process and the appeal authority and replacing it with an appeals tribunal. The reason here I think this is important is because we don\u2019t want to recreate that same sort of situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EEventually, just to conclude that story, there were significant issues with the appeal tribunal, so it actually didn\u2019t progress. But if we look at the reason why this was being suggested, the situation was\u2014the emphasis in 2015\u2014the ACC appeals before the District Court had an average age of 669 days. So here\u2019s something for the select committee to think about: if we funnel everything now through the District Court, are we going to get back to where we were in 2015\u2014669 days before it could get to District Court resolution? The discussion document that went out to look at the tribunal, that raised this point, raised several questions. It raised whether we could just increase the number of judges. Well, it turns out to be an ACC appeal court judge you have to have seven years of judicial experience. That can be challenging sometimes, to find those sorts of people with those sorts of skills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI think a lot of work was also done at that time around other parts of the appeals process, particularly the Acclaim Otago work of 2015. That was a body of work that came out of an NGO saying, \u201CLook, the resolution process for ACC, the disputes resolution, actually isn\u2019t fair and we don\u2019t think people are getting their medical evidence in a timely way. They don\u2019t have access to legal recourse. They don\u2019t have access to expertise. Where there is legal advice it\u2019s not fully accessible on the Ministry of Justice website.\u201D And a whole body of work was done by a QC Kearn, as I recall, around the Acclaim report, commissioned by Nikki Kaye, and that\u2019s informed this whole resolution process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESo, fundamentally, I just wanted to lay out the case as to why the appeal authority is on good grounds to be established and to also pass some work to the select committee, to just reassure that we don\u2019t go back to the situation in 2015 where the District Court was 669 days behind. With that, I commend this to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u00225ec82a9e7d4e439c98e78bcca420452e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ec82a9e7d4e439c98e78bcca420452e\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to stand and speak, on behalf of New Zealand First, on the Accident Compensation Amendment Bill. I\u2019d just like to start my contribution this afternoon\u2014I\u2019d like to tautoko the Minister, the Hon Iain Lees-Galloway\u2014by making note of his comment that New Zealand\u2019s no-fault accident compensation scheme is, in fact, a national treasure and the envy of many countries. We know that to be a fact, and we are really proud of the fact that we do have this ACC scheme. Also I acknowledge the former Minister, the Hon Michael Woodhouse, who did a lot of work in the previous Parliament to get this bill ready. Just a couple of mentions too\u2014the previous speakers\u2014acknowledging Dr Reti and his focus with his contribution on the disestablishment of the Accident Compensation Appeal Authority. This is something that I would be particularly interested in hearing: what the select committee has to say about that, in the contributions that we\u2019ll come to in hearings in the select committee on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThis bill accords well with New Zealand First\u2019s ACC policy, implementing a number of reforms that the party has been calling for and other common-sense amendments that are supported by the tenor of New Zealand First policy. Kiwis, as we\u2019ve heard, are very proud of the ACC scheme. Nearly one in three Kiwis made an ACC claim in the years 2016-17. So we\u2019re very well engaged with this scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThe bill has two broad objectives: to ensure that ACC continues to meet society\u2019s expectations by providing cover and entitlements that are appropriate, consistent, and sustainable, and to improve the Accident Compensation Act 2001 by ensuring that it is effective, efficient, and accords with best regulatory practice. On behalf of New Zealand First, I\u2019d like to voice our support for the Accident Compensation Amendment Bill. The bill is designed to tidy up aspects of the Accident Compensation Act of 2001. Now, over time, inconsistencies, duplications, gaps, and errors start to crystallise, and good housekeeping legislation is necessary to tidy up and improve upon major legislation. We believe that these amendments meet the twin tests of \u201Cfairness\u201D and \u201Ccommon sense\u201D. These are important amendments, and it is worth going through and making sure that the House has a clear idea of what the components of this amendment bill intend to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ESo the tidying-up legislation will remove any potential hurdle for those who work overseas, for example. We\u2019ve heard that talked about already this afternoon. So if you work for a company that sends you off overseas for a period of time and you continue to pay your tax here in New Zealand, then, logically, you should be covered for ACC. Not only should the working parent be covered but the family\u2014his or her family\u2014as well. If the family does then return to New Zealand after suffering an injury overseas, they will now continue to be treated under ACC in New Zealand. So that\u2019s a really good amendment in this bill. It\u2019s also become apparent that the Accident Compensation Appeal Authority is a court too far. District Courts are, in fact, perfectly able to adjudicate accident compensation appeals, and we will hear more about that in the select committee. There is a duplication of work between the authority and the District Courts, and this amendment will end that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThese amendments seek to offer greater clarity to some of the grey areas of the ACC legislation. So, take another situation: maybe a person suffers an injury and receives compensation under ACC. Now, if that worker is approaching the age of 65 years and hadn\u2019t intended to retire just yet, this bill will remove the requirement to choose between either weekly compensation or superannuation. Now, some, including New Zealand First, argue that having to choose is discrimination, because when you qualify for New Zealand superannuation, you are entitled to your superannuation as well as your income. As ACC compensation is in lieu of income, we argue that you shouldn\u2019t have to forgo it when you reach the superannuation age. The Government has said that the age limit of 65 is justified discrimination, because it\u2019s designed to protect the fairness and sustainability of the ACC system. A landmark ruling by the Human Rights Review Tribunal in 2015 found that this policy was in breach of the Human Rights Act. Claimants caught in this situation now will be entitled to up to two years of their weekly ACC even if they do receive their superannuation, and that includes surviving spouses and partners in the event that the injury is, in fact, fatal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EAlongside this clarification, the bill will also adjust the Veterans\u2019 Support Act so that it maintains consistency with the updated ACC amendments. In a further attempt to streamline the process, it seems sensible to turn the annual review of rehabilitation amounts that the Accident Compensation Corporation is liable to pay into a two-year review rather than annually. Any attempt to reduce bureaucracy is, in our view, to be welcomed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EMay I also make an observation, as a new member dealing with a great deal of legislation on behalf of New Zealand First: during the election campaign and after, there were all sorts of wildly exaggerated fears that the coalition Government would be unwieldy and wracked with the competing interests. We know that this coalition Government has big and important goals to help make New Zealand be a better and fairer country, but it is in the process of governing, dealing with the myriad of small but very important pieces of legislation that need attention, and fixing what we can so that the machine is operating smoothly. What I see is that a lot of the detailed but unspectacular work of government is getting done, and it\u2019s getting done with thoughtfulness and efficiency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ESo, from the engine room of the Government, I can report that, in fact, this coalition Government is functioning outstandingly well, and that is why it is easy to support legislation such as the Accident Compensation Amendment Bill. So, in conclusion, this Government is, in fact, determined that all New Zealanders deserve the best possible care when they are sick or injured, and that is why we\u2019re repairing the previous nine years of neglect in the health system and also why we\u2019re looking to make the ACC scheme fairer for all claimants. So, Mr Assistant Speaker, that\u2019s my contribution this afternoon. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002293adeb81da564799bdcaa2728e58186c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293adeb81da564799bdcaa2728e58186c\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I want to acknowledge the Minister for ACC, the Hon Iain Lees-Galloway, for his comments regarding the stewardship of ACC, particularly under the hands of the Hon Nikki Kaye and the Hon Mike Woodhouse, which really is the genesis of this bill as it comes to the House today, and I acknowledge that the current Minister saw value in the work that had been done under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI think it probably is a good idea to go over a bit of the history of ACC and go back a decade to when the National-led Government came into power in 2008 and we inherited an ACC scheme which had a fiscal hole to the tune of $4.8 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226006b71954df4bd6b3031017d1f7ff48\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish! Absolute rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215c73b6735ed439397a814b8f4305187\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s in the papers, Minister. Over the time of our Government, we were able to return ACC to a fully funded scheme, and not only to do that but to reduce ACC levies to New Zealanders. Also, we were able during that time to deliver better services and we have now handed over to the current Government a fully functioning, fully funded, financially sustainable ACC scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EAlso during that time in the National Government\u2014and I do make those comments in light of the self-congratulatory comments made by the member who just resumed her seat, Jenny Marcroft. So having handed over a fully functioning, well-positioned ACC scheme to move into the future, former Ministers had also been undertaking some work on making a couple of aspects of the ACC scheme even better for New Zealanders. Those amendments are now in the bill and they are around addressing the regulatory duplication\u2014there were gaps, there were errors, there were inconsistencies within the current legislation\u2014and also keeping the regulatory system up to date and keeping it relevant to the ACC scheme and to New Zealanders today. So that\u2019s what\u2019s in this bill. Members who have spoken before me have canvassed those measures. I don\u2019t propose to go through those in any detail because members and those listening have gone over those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EBut I want to just briefly go into why it\u2019s important that ACC should be delivering a good service to New Zealanders. As a constituency MP, over a number of years I have had a number of people coming to my offices stuck somewhere in the ACC system. Whether they were stuck because they were a person receiving support from ACC close to retirement and then having to make choices between ACC cover or national super, or whether it was somebody caught within the disputes complaints process, those people who came into my office\u2014and there\u2019s less of them now, to be fair, and there will be even less once this bill becomes law because it does make regulatory improvements to the ACC system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EBut those people who come into a local MP\u2019s office\u2014and the Hon Clare Curran mentioned that herself because she also is a constituency MP\u2014are in a very bad place. They have turned to their local MP, wherever they are around the country, because they were literally stuck within the ACC system at a time in their lives when they are not able really to deal with Government processes. So in my time as associate ACC Minister, I was involved in a body of work which was around making the process easier for New Zealanders to navigate ACC. Now that work is continuing and I\u2019m very pleased to see that, and I thank the current Government for that. I endorse the work in this bill. The New Zealand National Party supports this bill, and I look forward to its passage through the House and through select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00222134487ef99e431d9c84e384d390c5de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222134487ef99e431d9c84e384d390c5de\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I rise to take a call on behalf of the Green Party also in support of the Accident Compensation Amendment Bill. I too would like to acknowledge the Hon Iain Lees-Galloway and the previous Ministers Nikki Kaye and Michael Woodhouse for the process of getting this bill to the House and the unanimous support that we seem to have across Parliament for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI do just need to just very briefly though take exception with the rewriting of history of the previous speaker, Jacqui Dean, who spoke about the significant systems improvements under National to ACC, missing out the significant system breakages that happened under that Government before they saw fit to embark on improvement processes. I want to recall for that member and to put on record having heard a submission in the select committee around the funding for specialist sexual violence services. We heard from a man who was telling us how his wife was struggling to access supports after the changes that the National Government had made to the ACC sensitive claims process\u2014how his wife committed suicide because she was unable to deal with the impacts of the abuse without help, which was explicitly due to the changes that have been made by that Government. So if they choose to tell history, it should be a full history. They certainly made improvements, but it was after some very significant loss and damage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would also just challenge the concept of the fully funded scheme and how they restored that. There is no evidence that we need to have a fully funded scheme. That money and the levying process to be able to pay out, in concept, every single person at one moment is quite a bizarre concept actually. So it was perceived, I think rightly, by many people at the time as an effort to undermine the system by driving up levies and undermining services to be able to have this money in the bank which is not necessarily needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo to the content of the bill, the Green Party is happy to support it. Our focus in our ACC policy is ensuring a fair system that\u2019s there for all New Zealanders with equitable and adequate rehab and compensation, and that is generally the focus of this bill. It makes quite a number of changes that, as have previously been mentioned, were recommended by the Productivity Commission previously and cover a wide range of relatively minor issues. It is not the fundamental reform to the system to deliver better services; that will come later, and the Green Party certainly looks forward to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWhat it does is\u2014as an example for people listening\u2014it removes the requirement for ACC claimants to choose between weekly compensation and New Zealand super after receiving a year of both. It removes that requirement, and that is consistent, as a previous speaker mentioned, with a Human Rights Review Tribunal ruling around discrimination in that area of policy. It clarifies the current transitional provisions to ensure that all claimants who are close to or above superannuation qualification age receive up to 24 months of weekly compensation if they are entitled to it, so that it is not linked strictly to coming of age of entitlement for superannuation, and will allow surviving spouses to receive up to five years of weekly compensation regardless of age. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt also removes the requirement for another dependant to elect between weekly compensation and superannuation. So you can see that\u2019s a whole package of work around the age of entitlement as well as surviving spouses, that brings the legislation to a more consistent position around our human rights commitments. It makes moves from an annual review to a biennual review of the accident compensation regulations\u2014not exactly an earth-shattering change but probably quite a sensible bureaucratic shift. It automatically updates the maximum and minimum liable earnings to the minimum wage and labour cost index retrospectively to improve the workability of biennial levy rounds\u2014again, hardly earth-shattering but probably important for the delivery of services and the efficient work of ACC. It disestablishes the Accident Compensation Appeal Authority, which hears cases under the 1972 and 1982 Acts and enables remaining cases to be heard in the District Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI did hear the previous National speaker Shane Reti talking about the select committee possibly needing to watch that area and consider evidence on that point quite closely because of a previous backlog of appeals in the District Court. My understanding is that this is in the legislation because there are so few cases going to their appeal and that there isn\u2019t an expectation that those numbers would increase just because the Accident Compensation Appeal Authority is being disestablished. But we certainly will be listening with interest to submissions to make sure that we are getting that right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EPossibly the most substantive point in this piece of legislation is extending ACC cover to spouses and partners and dependants of New Zealand employees posted overseas. So that change will mean that those partners and dependants posted with New Zealand will align with how they\u2019d be treated had the injury occurred while they were living in New Zealand, and the coverage would primarily be on their return to New Zealand, because ACC doesn\u2019t usually cover treatment costs offshore. This was the case. It\u2019s returning us to what was the status quo pre-1998. My understanding is that we\u2019re not actually sure why it changed after 1998 and that there is some speculation that, in fact, it may have been a drafting error that led to that result. In practice, it seems that ACC have been handling this area inconsistently, perhaps under the belief that it was a drafting error and that the policy intent was to maintain that provision for people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo, in effect, this is providing legal certainly, and it will be retrospective. It is unusual for the Green Party to support retrospective legislation, but considering it has been inconsistently applied up to this point, it seems just the fair thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a fair question for people to ask what the costs of that might be, and we\u2019re not sure, but the advice is that it\u2019s likely to be a very small number of cases. As an example, probably the main employer, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, can cite only 10 cases since 1998 that were denied coverage. So, in all likelihood, it is a quite small amount of money. Considering the fully funded nature of ACC, it\u2019s not going to break the bank, and it will certainly make things simpler for other Government agencies who are currently trying to provide interim cover for their dependants offshore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo, in summary, the Green Party is happy to support this important piece of housekeeping. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b64e86937e444931a6340547dff0a28b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b64e86937e444931a6340547dff0a28b\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to take a call on the Accident Compensation Amendment Bill in its first reading. Can I acknowledge Iain Lees-Galloway for bringing this to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EAs we all know, legislation can, over time, become out of step with what society expects. Situations can arise that we never expected or accounted for in legislation, and as we evolve as a society, quite often parts of our legislation can become obsolete or not fit for purpose. So it\u2019s a political reality and it means that we need to bring legislation to the House, quite often, for a tune up. As you would take your car in for a service, so too do we with legislation, from time to time, to make sure that it is relevant, it is up to date, it\u2019s fit for purpose, and it fits with the expectations of modern-day thinking of the public and with their political expectations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EIn this case, we\u2019re making some very sensible changes to the accident compensation legislation to bring it into step with what we expect and how we expect it to deliver for New Zealanders. So this amendment bill is a result of the regulatory work programme of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, who are tasked with reviewing regulatory instruments under their portfolios to ensure that they\u2019re fit for purpose and that they work as they should. This work was carried out under the previous National Government, and today we\u2019re just formalising that work by amending the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe bill makes a number of amendments to the ACC legislation, and previous speakers have gone through many of the parts of the legislation. In fact, Jan Logie just gave a really good summary in her speech and I commend her for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to focus on one thing that I think is of particular significance to New Zealanders and to people in my electorate, and, firstly, that is the anomaly under existing legislation whereby a person near, at, or above the age of superannuation who is eligible for both superannuation and ACC payments must choose between those two payments in the second year of their injury. In most cases, they forgo their superannuation and collect just the ACC, and they are forgoing that superannuation payment that they should be entitled to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ECurrently, if you\u2019re working and receiving super and you get injured, you get both ACC and super entitlements for a year, and then in the second year, you must choose which of those entitlements to take. Most people choose ACC and, therefore, forgo their super payments, and in the third year, they go back to super. So there\u2019s, firstly, no rationale for having to make this choice between the payments in year two, and it\u2019s not in line with the premise that superannuation is a universal benefit and it\u2019s not means-tested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EIf a person is working past 65, they\u2019re entitled to both superannuation and their working income. There\u2019s no logical reason why in year two of an injury, a person aged over 65 must choose between those two payments and, in most cases, actually forgo their super payment. It\u2019s not in line with the public\u2019s expectations of how ACC and super should fit together. The current legislation also has an anomaly whereby if a person is injured prior to their 64th birthday, they are worse off than if they were injured just prior to their 65th birthday because they\u2019re not able to collect that dual payment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThese anomalies have been highlighted because more and more Kiwis are beginning to work past the age of 65\u2014something that was perhaps not considered during the original drafting of ACC legislation. This amendment to the Act makes the change, so the person who\u2019s in paid employment prior to their injury can receive both super and ACC up to a maximum of 24 months. These people would have continued to receive their earnings and super had it not been for their accident. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo the cost of this change is relatively minor, costing ACC and the Ministry of Social Development just a few million by 2024. So it\u2019s a sensible change, and it brings the Act into line with public expectations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThis bill makes a number of small regulatory reforms to the ACC legislation to address duplication gaps, errors, and inconsistencies. It\u2019s a good, solid little bill, and I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002270c8c71fa0f0434bb871fc3b1f7d57df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270c8c71fa0f0434bb871fc3b1f7d57df\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call\u2014five minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6d5e2bd354a4547b103b70e05ed3765\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6d5e2bd354a4547b103b70e05ed3765\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, sir. It\u2019s marvellous to be able to stand here and speak in favour of this bill, because it does something that is needed to something that is very special in this country. The ACC scheme is, indeed, the envy of the world. What a marvellous, socialist idea ACC is\u2014the scheme that is no-fault. So it doesn\u2019t matter who you are or what situation, if there\u2019s an accident, then you will be covered for the needs that you have in that situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt was indeed brought in under the third Labour Government in 1974. There have been numerous attempts over time to undermine the ACC scheme, but it is wonderful to stand here today and see that there is a bipartisan approach to looking at making sure that ACC fits the needs of this country. It is wonderful to see the National Party stand up here and, indeed\u2014actually no, fair dos. It\u2019s wonderful to see a bill that they did a lot of the groundwork on when they were in Government, to introduce this. I commend them for that and, of course, the Minister now, the Minister for ACC, the Hon Iain Lees-Galloway\u2014I commend the work of him and his officials to get this where it is today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENearly one in three New Zealanders made an ACC claim last year\u2014in the 2016-17 year\u2014most of whom, of course, received excellent treatment. It is indeed a wonderful scheme, ACC. I myself have claimed\u2014as have, I\u2019m sure, most members in this House\u2014and called on ACC at some point. When you are as bad at rugby as I am, you need something like ACC there to protect you, and that\u2019s exactly the situation that I\u2019ve found myself in, a number of times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhat is good to see about ACC is that it is in tremendous financial health, and because of that, we are able to look at extending some of the provisions that the ACC scheme offers New Zealanders so that it does become relevant to New Zealanders today. This Government is, of course, determined to ensure that all New Zealanders receive the best-possible care when they are sick or injured, and that is why we are determined to repair the previous nine years of neglect in the health system and also why we\u2019re looking to make the ACC scheme fairer for claimants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of things that come under here, in the package of amendments looking to amend the Accident Compensation Act 2001. A number of those have been covered already in this House thus far. Extending ACC cover to spouses or partners and dependants of New Zealand employees posted offshore is something that would not have been considered when this legislation was put in place, but, of course, now the changing nature of work and the fact that it draws people overseas mean that extending ACC cover to include people in that situation is indeed fair and right, so it\u2019s good to see that that is included here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAlso, it is allowing surviving spouses to receive up to 5 years\u2019 weekly compensation, regardless of age. On a bit of a personal note, I had an uncle that passed away on his farm as a result of an accident, and ACC was able to support his family, support his wife and his children, for a number of years after that accident. If ACC wasn\u2019t in place, in order to do that my family would have missed out and been under severe financial strain as a result of that accident, so on a personal level it is very pleasing to see that we are not only recognising that which is in place but extending it now to become more relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EMoving from an annual review to a biennial review of the Accident Compensation (Liability to Pay or Contribute to Cost of Treatment) Regulations 2003, as well as automatically updating the maximum and minimum liable earnings to the minimum wage and the Labour Cost Index respectively may not seem, in isolation, to be significant things, but they are important, and that is why this Government has brought this bill to the House now, recognising that there is a review of ACC due in 2019. We could have waited till then, but if something needs to be done, we may as well get on with it and do it now. So it is pleasing, because, of course, this bill is about fairness. It\u2019s about making sure that ACC is as relevant in 2018 as it was when it was first brought in, under the third Labour Government in 1974. Touching on some of the examples that people from both sides of the House have mentioned now, the issue around electing between superannuation and ACC is a big one. I congratulate the Minister for the work he\u2019s done, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c094aca3c0be41788fd37ea7fba0d520\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c094aca3c0be41788fd37ea7fba0d520\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, for the opportunity to speak this afternoon on the Accident Compensation Amendment Bill. I want to acknowledge the Minister who\u2019s brought this bill to the House, Iain Lees-Galloway, and also note his recognition of the previous Minister for ACC, the Hon Michael Woodhouse, and the work that was done by him and by the previous National Government in bringing this bill to the House. We are very happy to support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI do note, though, that we\u2019re now seven months into a Labour - New Zealand First - Green Government, and this is all that they\u2019ve brought to the House for ACC legislation. Now, some of us have got very good memories about the nine years\u2014the nine very good years\u2014that Labour were in Opposition, and some of us do remember some of the things they said about ACC during that time. They made all sorts of claims, all sorts of complaints, and all sorts of promises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EJust last year, in July, we had Sue Moroney at the time\u2014I don\u2019t know quite what happened to her\u2014saying that \u201CACC has become bound up in complex bureaucracy and needs a shake-up.\u201D So where is that bill? Where is that shake-up that the Labour Party promised? We haven\u2019t seen it. Well, I think I know what\u2019s happened to that, because Ms Moroney also went on to say that \u201CI can\u2019t see the point in spending more money with layers of bureaucracy.\u201D So I think I know what happened to Ms Moroney and why she\u2019s no longer here, because not long after that, just days before the election, we had the now Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, the then Labour leader, coming out and thundering about the track record of ACC under the National Government. She went on to say that she believed that ACC needed independent oversight, but would not describe what that would look like. All she would say was that there was a requirement for further bureaucracy, but would not say what it looked like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EIt is more evidence that the Labour Party did nothing in their nine years in Opposition in policy development. As we\u2019ve heard from previous speakers, they\u2019ve again pushed it down the road\u2014another review, another inquiry, another working group. This bill is proof that once again the Labour Party are relying on the hard work of the previous National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u002263e6eb47b2194ccb9a6daebc0ca16411\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263e6eb47b2194ccb9a6daebc0ca16411\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to take a call on the Accident Compensation Amendment Bill, and I\u2019d like to acknowledge all the contributions that have been made thus far this afternoon. I think there is general support for the measures contained in this bill, for what are further improvements and refinements to ACC\u2014the accident compensation scheme, a much-beloved scheme that we have here in New Zealand. I think back to its founding father, the Rt Hon Sir Owen Woodhouse, and the great vision that he had of creating the universal and comprehensive no-fault coverage for all personal physical injuries that we have with our ACC scheme, which we have been the beneficiaries of for over 40 years now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis bill, as we\u2019ve heard in contributions made, provides a lot of improvements. It addresses some matters to make things a bit fairer for certain individuals, and there is a range of technical amendments, as well. So we\u2019re not going to the actual heart of the ACC scheme; we\u2019re really just touching on and improving on a lot of periphery matters, but, as we know, the ACC scheme can be very, very technical and very complex, particularly for certain individuals that are trying to navigate their way through. I\u2019m pleased to be standing to support the measures made, and can I acknowledge the Minister for ACC, the Hon Iain Lees-Galloway, and also the work conducted by the former Government in the preparation of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI want to touch on just a couple of the amendments that are being made through this bill, and in particular we\u2019ve heard today around the cover for dependants of New Zealand workers overseas. That\u2019s just about providing that spouses or partners of those Kiwis that are posted overseas, who are serving their country, are indeed provided with ACC cover should they require it. I understand that this goes back to\u2014well, this was always in place. However, in 1998\u2014unbeknownst, I guess\u2014during the passage of the legislation that went through at that time, this particular provision was excluded or dropped out of the legislation. Fortunately, we\u2019re here today to start the process to rectify that. But I\u2019m curious\u2014and I\u2019m sure it could be borne out in the select committee process on this bill\u2014when we\u2019re talking about this small number of Kiwis that maybe work for Immigration New Zealand overseas or the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, does this legislation actually cover those Kiwis that are engaged locally by embassies and by our high commissions around the world?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI can understand that seconded high commissioners, ambassadors, and the like, and their spouses and dependants can be covered, but I think there\u2019s an argument to be made that the coverage should be extended to those Kiwis that serve their country across the globe in the aid of serving New Zealand and Kiwis around the globe\u2014that they can be covered also. I\u2019m not too sure of the scope of this actual provision, but there are a number of appointments\u2014in fact, quite a large amount of appointments\u2014that are made whereby Kiwis are employed, but locally, in accordance with local terms and conditions. But, ultimately, they\u2019re paid by the New Zealand taxpayer; it\u2019s just that the terms and conditions that they work under are the local conditions for which they reside. It would be helpful, I guess, if that class of New Zealander working in the service of their country would also be covered by this bill, because I don\u2019t think there is much of a difference. Again, ultimately, they\u2019re being paid out of New Zealand for the work that they do in the service of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EOne of the other couple of matters I just want to touch on is the abolition or the disestablishment of the Accident Compensation Appeal Authority in place of the District Court. I guess having to navigate through those complex legal processes can be time-consuming and it can be very costly. All I would note is that I would hope that through the disestablishment of the appeal authority, which I understand has been used less and less in recent years, the instalment of the District Court as the sole forum for appeals should not\u2014that the same access to the District Court or the access to that appeal authority equivalent is not unduly jeopardised by people not having the appropriate means to go through to the District Court, because they can be quite expensive processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI, lastly, just want to touch on the measures put in place on this bill, which I do commend, which are around making sure that those individuals nearing retirement age who are injured close to that age can continue to receive their work compensations in addition to payments of New Zealand super. I think it seems, no matter which way you look at it, that it\u2019s the right thing to do. It\u2019s the fair thing to do because those particular individuals would be entitled to continue in their work, which is why they are receiving those work payments. So ensuring that they can continue on, for a period, is a sensible measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ELikewise, the ability for other spouses of the workers that, unfortunately, die, who are entitled to surviving payments\u2014ensuring that those payments can continue and the spouses are not unduly jeopardised is also commendable. I understand that was affirmed by a Human Rights Review Tribunal declaration. It took that particular action to ensure that the legislation is being amended to include that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThere is also a range of many other technical amendments, which cover a whole range of other matters, from veterans to superannuitants and the like. These are all very welcome. Once again, I just would like to acknowledge the Minister for bringing these amendments through to the House now. There is a substantive piece of work which is going on, but these amendments are pressing. They will be very welcomed by those Kiwis that will be the beneficiaries of them. They will enhance our much-cherished ACC scheme. I commend them to the House. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022a821683387f54de5a13e82feb1ad22a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a821683387f54de5a13e82feb1ad22a3\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m very happy to be here to support this Accident Compensation Amendment Bill. I\u2019m happy to support it, because they are sensible changes to the Accident Compensation Act. It\u2019s the work that was done\u2014these changes were identified\u2014when National was in Government, and I\u2019d just like to make the point that the work was done under the auspices of the Productivity Commission, and done by the Hon Michael Woodhouse, as has been mentioned in the House today. So it is very good to see this finally coming to fruition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe main changes to this Act are to make sure that the accident compensation regime is fair and is fair to those who are injured near their retirement age. Also, there are significant changes to streamline the complaints process, which, I think, is a good thing as well. ACC is a world-leading no-fault scheme. It is based on the idea that it\u2019s fair for New Zealanders to be protected regardless of where they\u2019re injured\u2014whether it\u2019s at work, whether it\u2019s at play\u2014and that no fault occurred in that injury. So it is a world-leading scheme, and I think it\u2019s something that we should be very proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EIn terms of these changes to do with being near retirement age, most New Zealanders these days work after they\u2019re 65, whether it\u2019s part-time or full-time work. In the past, under the legislation, somebody who was injured near to 65 years of age had to choose between taking ACC weekly compensation or whether they were going to take superannuation. Of course, those people had been working; they deserved to be able to have that compensation. But they did get a choice\u2014they had to make a decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESo the changes of this bill will make sure that they can access both their weekly compensation and their superannuation for a limited time: for 24 months. It also allows for spouses\u2014surviving spouses\u2014to get up to five years of those weekly payments. I think that\u2019s an important improvement to the Act as well. There are other sensible changes. For example, it also protects New Zealand workers posted overseas. It was not right that those people posted overseas may have less protection than if they were working in New Zealand. So now they are treated exactly the same way as if they were injured in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EIn terms of the complaints process, they\u2019re looking to streamline that process. At the moment, there are two separate systems, and one of them is not used as much as the other. So this bill disestablishes the Accident Compensation Appeal Authority\u2014that\u2019s the one that is little used\u2014so that there will be less confusion in terms of complaints, more efficiency during one process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESo, as I said, these are sensible amendments. They were identified during the last Government. National worked on them, and it\u2019s very good to see them coming to the House. I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022948edc6303624d5aa9a309963e9330cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022948edc6303624d5aa9a309963e9330cd\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m delighted to be the final speaker in the first reading of the Accident Compensation Amendment Bill. I want to first of all commend the Hon Iain Lees-Galloway for his prompt leadership in picking up in part what was started by the previous Minister under the previous Government, but there are also some new initiatives in this bill. It\u2019s great to see his first bill in this portfolio come before the House. I do want to also acknowledge the Hon Michael Woodhouse, who started some of the work for this legislation, and I\u2019m sure he\u2019ll be pleased to see it progressing as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EA number of speakers during the debate have talked about the world-leading status of ACC, and I want to totally agree with that. I had many conversations with the Rt Hon Sir Owen Woodhouse, who was one of the instigators of this scheme, before his death, which was a great loss to not just ACC but a whole range of other contributions that Owen made to our communities. So I just want to acknowledge his contribution as the vision behind the ACC scheme. Not only is it a comprehensive injury prevention, rehabilitation, and compensation scheme but it also gives every New Zealander the opportunity to receive fair compensation and rehabilitation without having to resort to legal action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESome people describe it as \u201CWe gave up the right to sue\u201D, but, actually, only about 1 percent of injuries pre-1974 ever resulted in successful legal action against the person or incident that injured the person. So when we say, \u201CWe gave up the right to sue\u201D, not many people had it, because it cost a lot of money and the level of proof was quite high. There were very few successful suing actions in New Zealand prior to this, so we gained a huge amount and lost very little.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWhen the scheme was introduced, it was indeed world-leading, and a lot of countries have since come to New Zealand and studied it, but very few other jurisdictions have had the courage to say, \u201CWe should try and prevent injury, we should provide compensation and rehabilitation for any injured people, and we shouldn\u2019t have to resort to the courts in order to do that.\u201D There are some parts of the world that have this, but none that offer it to every single citizen. They are limited to workers\u2019 compensation schemes rather than our comprehensive scheme that we have now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIn fact, workers\u2019 compensation schemes are probably much easier to administer because they wouldn\u2019t come up against the challenges that this bill, in part, seeks to address. For example, the situation where the dependants, the families, of workers who are employed overseas and are covered by this scheme\u2014they might be diplomats or public servants of some sort. They receive cover, but their families haven\u2019t received cover if you look at the technicality of the law. This bill fixes that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EJan Logie from the Green Party, in her contribution, mentioned that this provision was made retrospective in this bill and that the Green Party usually doesn\u2019t do retrospectivity but agreed to in this situation. That is because nobody seems to be able to determine how this change in previous policy came to be\u2014what was the policy thinking behind it?\u2014and it seems as though it was never implemented by ACC anyway. They didn\u2019t think the law had been changed; it appears it had been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI was on that select committee in 1998, and I am going to research my notes of that time. I may speak to the then chair of the committee, the Hon Gerry Brownlee, who I know paid close attention to every detail in that legislation. He often mentioned that during the committee meetings, so I\u2019m sure it\u2019s correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EAnother committee member at the time was Derek Quigley, who at that stage represented the ACT Party. The House might be interested to know that Derek Quigley worked with New Zealand First and the Alliance\u2014or New Labour; whichever it was at the time\u2014and Labour to get over 400 amendments to the very bill that changed the dependant provisions. I\u2019m sure I\u2019ll have some record of that, but if the Hon Gerry Brownlee or the Hon Derek Quigley\u2014or the Hon Laila Harr\u00E9, who was on that committee as well\u2014recall it, it would be very useful for the select committee that\u2019s going to consider this bill to have that information. So we have the extension of ACC cover to the spouses and dependants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe removal of the election requirement for spouses or dependants who receive superannuation\u2014that was a Human Rights Tribunal recommendation; that we change that provision, because it\u2019s discriminatory on the basis of age. The people who receive weekly compensation will now be able to continue to receive weekly compensation for up to two years after they receive New Zealand superannuation entitlement. This is a good step forward, and I commend the Minister for it. I don\u2019t think we have yet got a clear determination of how long weekly compensation could be paid for if the person has a permanent impairment, and I would recommend to the select committee that they consider permanent impairment payments as an alternative to what is a very difficult and contentious issue. I\u2019m sure that will come up in submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EAlso, there\u2019s the automatic updating of the maximum and minimum liable earnings. That\u2019s another area that has never been updated properly. I know of many examples where young, quite poorly paid people\u2014could even be on an apprenticeship or training wage\u2014have severe and permanent injuries and are then consigned to a lifetime of being on a low income. Eighty percent of not very much is very difficult to live on, and it\u2019s not increased enough, in my view, to keep pace with the increases in the cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe bill also abolishes the Accident Compensation Appeal Authority. That authority has been dealing with claimants\u2019 appeals for review from 1972 and 1982 legislation. It\u2019s probably not in use very much. It\u2019s probably quite expensive to administer, and I\u2019m sure that, once again, the Minister has made the right decision to move those cases from the authority to the court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that sounds like it\u2019s got support from across the House, and I think that\u2019s good. That\u2019s the way the scheme was introduced. It has had some pretty challenging times between 1974 and now. I remember the 1998 legislation that I discussed earlier actually privatised the workers\u2019 compensation account. We had private insurers\u2014clearly driven by profit and policy rigour\u2014in charge of workers\u2019 compensation. That was a very sad time for New Zealand, and I was delighted that in 1999 the Government changed and Murray McCully was no longer the Minister, and the incoming Government sought to restore ACC to being a State organisation rather than having any private interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EAs the Minister indicated in his speech, this is a small bill in comparison with quite fundamental and progressive changes that we will see coming either later this year or early next year. I am sure, despite this only covering quite a number of small issues, that the select committee will be pleased by the amount of interest that I am confident will arise out of the points that have been made. They are all betterment to the current legislation\u2014they all improve the Act. They make it fairer, they make it more transparent, and they resolve the frustrations that a number of people have had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI might sub into this committee because I\u2019m very interested in ACC and the scheme. It is a delight when people take an interest and come and give you submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a451a40b16242888b72f621212f74a3\u0022\u003EHon Ron Mark\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re the best Minister there was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251f7292641ce4ebb83943e71a509d470\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, thank you very much, Mr Mark. I\u2019d like you to put that on public record more often, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c00e73fbc7d0414f9d00e269ec57c8a4\u0022\u003EHon Ron Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I have done so already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd3db4cac3c74665b288099f9764771d\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Ha! Just one other point that I want to make\u2014I\u2019d feel that I would be short-changing parliamentary counsel if I didn\u2019t mention that in the 1998 legislation, I actually presented certificates to the people who were working from nine in the morning till midnight five days a week on that legislation; who wrote \u201Cprivate domestic workers\u201D more often than any other term. It was a new term to all of us, and it was one that was introduced or altered as part of that legislation. I know that they\u2019ll be listening to this debate because they listen to pretty well everything in our Parliament, and I commend the work that they did then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased we\u2019re not doing this under urgency from 9 a.m. till midnight as the privatisation was done by the then National Government. That was a pretty outrageous breach of natural process. This will go through a much better process, and I look forward to hearing the submissions and hearing the second reading on its conclusion. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c5fd380f1454391940586fd9680ebe8\u0022\u003ELocal Electoral Matters Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223dc8b57c870c440095750573ae77764b\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000422\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 3 May.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00224f1e6ecc46b54763b838be6701eafe66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f1e6ecc46b54763b838be6701eafe66\u0022\u003EVIRGINIA ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, thank you for letting the debate resume on the first reading of the Local Electoral Matters Bill. This bill enables a greater degree of civic participation in local elections, which is always a good thing. This bill gives authorities\u2014local authorities\u2014the ability to decide how they wish to best engage with their voters, and that\u2019s always a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EUnder the current law, under the Local Electoral Act, there are two main forms of voting that currently occur, and those are postal voting and the polling booth, but the one we know the best, probably, in local areas is postal voting. There\u2019s a bit of a reality check in that space in terms of how very low voter turnout is, particularly with postal voting. Largely, some of the barriers that are put in place with the requirement to vote by post prevent quite significant sectors of our communities from being actively engaged in some of the decisions that affect their daily lives: the time it takes to actually receive the letter in the mail, to read it through, and, more importantly, to actually post it. I recall, last local election, I actually drove around with my completed voting forms on the front seat of my car for about two weeks while I was looking around for a postbox, in between driving. I don\u2019t know whether it\u2019s because the National Government got rid of them all, but I couldn\u2019t find a postbox where there\u2019d been one previously\u2014or the fact that the post only came three days a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s those barriers, in terms of getting people to vote, that this bill looks at alleviating. It\u2019s the fact that we\u2019re able to actually have the possibility of online voting being trialled in a safe and controlled way that is quite exciting in this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s always a risk involved when people are attempting to use online methods for voting, and this has been taken into consideration. There\u2019ve been examples\u2014I know, recently, of Australia\u2014where the security of data or the way that the online voting has occurred has been compromised, so it\u2019s always very important, if we\u2019re introducing new methods of voting, to be able to make sure those systems are robust and that people have faith that their voting is being counted and being done in a legitimate manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis bill enables small sections to be trialled, to give local authorities the confidence that the systems that they\u2019re using are able to be relied upon. Through the enabling of this legislation, small groups can be targeted. So you could choose to be just looking at those who are overseas or just voters who may be disabled, who cannot get to the polling booth or be able to complete forms, or maybe even it may be trialled through our younger people, who are not engaging as much through postal voting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis mechanism provides an ability to limit the risks of trialling a new voting method. The addition to doing this, as well, is that it also gives local authorities access to data to find out who is actually responding, and, by holding that data, which would be verified through a birth date, that means that they can use that data to best engage with those populations who they are not seeing coming forward during local elections. It\u2019s always important to increase voter turnout, and some of the lowest turnout groups in communities are M\u0101ori, Pasifika, and young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s sort of an irony in that space, particularly with regard to young people. When I think of some of the initiatives that are currently happening within Hutt South that the council is seeking to engage with, it\u2019s those initiatives that the next generation will be using the most. They are the ones that will be using our roads, they are the ones that will be benefiting from local projects like RiverLink, which looks to open up the Hutt River, to introduce flood protection, and to put in better traffic mechanisms like the Melling Link to enable more free-flowing traffic around those areas. It is the younger people in our communities that will be using those facilities into the future, and so it\u2019s within our best interests to make sure that what we are building, what is happening, reflects the needs and the wants of those people that will be using those facilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo by having online voting and having a mechanism where everybody has the opportunity of engaging far more readily with their local authorities, we increase our chances of building a future New Zealand that meets the daily needs of our communities, and that\u2019s got to be a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhen I look, also, at how we best engage with voters and how we get the best turnout possible, when you look at the recent general election, there was a new ability there for voters to enrol and vote at the same time, and we did see a real increase in terms of voter turnout in younger people. So, again, by removing barriers\u2014by making voting more accessible, more easy, and straightforward\u2014we are always going to increase the levels of voter participation, and that has to be a good thing for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would just like to conclude by wrapping up. There\u2019s one piece of information that I read that really interested me, and it was that in 2016 a post-election voter awareness survey conducted by Auckland Council saw that 74 percent of respondents said they would prefer online voting to postal voting, and the results, when they were broken down by age group, went across all age categories. So there is a real desire within New Zealand for an increased ability for online voting to happen far more readily, and it\u2019s encouraging to see that we have a piece of legislation here that enables that to happen in a way where local authorities have the ability to control how that is rolled out and to make sure that that data is kept safe, as required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis will largely benefit, as I\u2019ve said, the next generation, and the key point that I really believe in is that it\u2019s so important that communities help shape the key amenities that they will be using for the future. That\u2019s how we get smarter roads, that\u2019s how we get parks that people use, and that\u2019s how we get facilities and libraries that are meeting the needs of our people. We do that through voter engagement, through people saying what they want and councils taking that into consideration when they make changes and use ratepayers\u2019 money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would like to commend this bill to the House, and I congratulate the Minister on taking a bold step in enabling local authorities to better engage with people and to build a country where everybody has the opportunity of using facilities they need. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002240f859a05b0b45c9b2fcba9183192453\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240f859a05b0b45c9b2fcba9183192453\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. National supports this bill. It is very consistent with the work that the previous Government was undertaking with regard to making changes to the Local Electoral Act to provide for online voting. We support this bill but we support with caution the move to online voting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EA lot of work has been undertaken around the best way to engage New Zealanders in local elections\u2014in elections and local elections. When I chaired the Justice and Electoral Committee a few years ago, we conducted a review into the general election. There were a number of submissions coming to us around the desirability of moving to online voting, and many reasons were given for that. One of those reasons was that it was the logical next step to allow for an engagement of New Zealanders. The second point was more focused on the engagement of those electors. I think that goes to the heart of the intent of changes to legislation to allow an online voting platform, and that is engagement of local electors. It is well-known to all of us that local elections are consistently declining in levels of engagement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ENow, the question about whether or not online voting is going to fix that or not is, I think, still open to discussion and, I think, probably not as a part of this piece of work, but no doubt submitters will raise it in select committee\u2014the plethora of decisions that are presented to the voter. If I use our Order Paper, perhaps, just as a piece of paper, when I was confronted with my local authority voting papers in the last election, I was asked to make a decision around councillors, I was asked to make a decision around the licensing trust, and I was then asked to make a decision around the district health board. I didn\u2019t know a lot of the names, even though I\u2019m very familiar with my community, and, quite frankly, I would see this great number of decisions to be made all at once to be somewhat of a disincentive, as is the postal voting system, to voters. So that\u2019s one thing that I believe Parliament and maybe the select committee should be considering. Also, it is the method. OK, we\u2019ve got online voting on the table. We currently have a postal ballot. There are other methods of engaging voters that, perhaps, should be relooked at. Maybe we should go back to a ballot day. All of these issues were raised, and are raised, consistently in a number of contexts, and I predict that they will be raised in the context of this local electoral bill that we are debating at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo if I turn more specifically to the bill, the first part of the bill relates to better enabling a trial of internet voting, because it is recognised that, in some countries\u2014Norway, for example, had a trial of internet voting, online voting, and have subsequently reverted back to a paper-based system over issues of integrity of the system. And if there\u2019s one thing this Parliament\u2014and I\u2019m sure we can all agree\u2014really wants to get right, it is to enhance and preserve the integrity of the voting system. So we need to be very mindful of international experiences, such as those as happened in Norway. It\u2019s worth noting that the existing legislation already allows for a trial of online voting, but what this bill does is to allow that trial to take place, for example, in a ward\u2014maybe in Auckland, maybe in New Plymouth\u2014rather than across the whole district. That minimises, clearly, the risk if that trial is not successful. And I also think it\u2019s important that a trial can be undertaken over a ward, because the last thing we need to do with our electoral system is to undermine public confidence in that system, because if a trial were to take place over a whole district\u2014say New Plymouth District Council\u2014and was found not to be as robust as was required, then the greater the area that was under trial, I think the greater the undermining of that particular form of voting, but also the electoral system could be. And I don\u2019t think any of us want to risk that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo we will support this bill to select committee. It does follow on from work under the previous Government. It is very consistent with our desire to see a more modernised system of voting which is more accessible to voters and is more welcoming to voters of all ages and circumstances. But we do need to be satisfied\u2014we do want to be satisfied\u2014that any shift to online voting is one that doesn\u2019t compromise the integrity of people\u2019s votes. Those people who engage in the democratic process do care about their communities. We want them to be able to vote with certainty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe second part of the bill is a minor change only, and that enables age-related data to be able to be provided to local authorities in a format that they can use\u2014in age bands. This will enable local authorities to have better information about their voting public, and so National also supports this part of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo we all look forward to submissions on this. We all look forward to being able to take a step forward in our electoral law and, potentially, improving engagement in local authority elections. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022d772031516ec40c081406c64976e0c51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d772031516ec40c081406c64976e0c51\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and speak for New Zealand First on this bill. I want to start by making a couple of comments. Firstly, I listened with interest to the last speaker on the ACC legislation. I\u2019m going to put it on the record that I think the Hon Ruth Dyson is the best Minister for ACC that I\u2019ve ever seen in all my time in Parliament, and I really appreciated the support we had down in Christchurch in those times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI want to say, also, that this is one of a couple of bills that the Government is presenting, and they\u2019re both linked, and it\u2019s good to see the second one here, which seeks to reinstate the well-beings back into the Local Government Act\u2014something that our party opposed, and I as a mayor was subjected to. It\u2019ll be a very satisfying moment to see that legislation go through under this coalition Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe Local Electoral Matters Bill is a bit of bittersweet for New Zealand First. We are supporting this legislation, and we will be supporting the conversation that will ensue from the analysis of this bill by the select committee and the wider community, particularly the Local Government New Zealand community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThis bill, which aims to, principally, enable some changes to the methods of voting at local government elections is possibly somewhat overdue. Looking back at some of the more recent history under the last term of Government, it\u2019s understandable why the honourable Minister Louise Upston had some concerns and did not progress this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI think, looking back on the history, it was very clear\u2014if I step one step back again, it\u2019s very obvious to everybody that there is something wrong with the local government elections when you consider that in the 2017 election, we had something like, amongst people in the cohort of 45 and over, a 79 percent turnout. Those aged 65-69\u201488.2 percent turnout. Those aged 70 and over, an 86.3 percent turnout.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIronically, given all of the discussions as to how important young people feel it is to participate in Government and have their say and participate in formulating law and shaping this nation, the lowest turnout is in the cohort from 25 to 29, where less than two-thirds\u2014some 67.6 percent\u2014turned out to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ENow, if you look at those numbers for the general election and compare them to the turnout in the 2016 local authority elections, we\u2019re looking at 43 percent for council and 42 percent for mayor\u201443 percent and 42 percent, as opposed to a turnout in the 2017 election, which sits up in the 80s. Something\u2019s wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ENow, this legislation looks to enable\u2014make it possible\u2014for trials to be conducted within a frame of electronic voting. And I know that this has been something that some of my former family in Local Government New Zealand have championed and have thought would be the panacea and the silver bullet to overcoming this problem. I know it\u2019s a view that\u2019s held by many members of Parliament\u2014that this is the silver bullet. This is going to shift the voting turnout in territorial authority elections from 40 percent to 80 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWell, let me tell the House and put it on the record now exactly what I used to say as the Mayor of Carterton\u2014and I\u2019m looking across at the honourable member Lawrence Yule, who was the president of Local Government New Zealand at the time and was unfortunate enough to have to listen to me expressing my views as forcefully as I did on some occasions. I said it then, and I\u2019ll say it now: this will not save the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EElectronic voting for local government elections in their current frame\u2014and this is the message from New Zealand First, through the Hansard, to the committee. In the current frame, in the current structure of local government elections, this will not\u2014electronic voting will not\u2014solve the problem on its own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EFundamentally, we need to accept that local government elections\u2014it\u2019s so good to look around this House and see other members of Parliament who have spent time in local government. There\u2019s quite a few here. Fundamentally, the way New Zealand First sees it, is there\u2019s two things that stand out when you look at local government elections and compare them to central government. One, local government elections are done by post. Well, therein is a problem. And for many, many years, both sides of the competing factions\u2014left and right\u2014have accused the others of rorting the system by having volunteers taking postal envelopes out of letterboxes of houses that are not occupied and submitting them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ENow, those are accusations that are thrown around quite regularly. But what they essentially say is that the postal system is able to be rorted. What I also see is that there is a lot of stuff that is posted out that never ever gets picked up by the person for whom it is intended, and if you look at the current housing crisis and look at the high transience levels of residents, and particularly those in low socio-economic groups and those who live in low socio-economic areas, we all know that there are many families who will change houses three to four times within an electoral cycle. So they will never see it. There is a high probability they may never receive their envelope. There is a clear possibility that someone else might receive it and fraudulently use it. Postal voting itself is an issue, and now with the denigration of services\u2014and where I live, we only get rural post three times a week, and we\u2019re only 6 kilometres out of Carterton. So postal voting is fraught.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThere is another problem: central government elections are held on one day. We physically have to get out of bed, get dressed, get spruced up, go down to the polling booth, and cast our vote. That in itself lends an air of significance and importance and value to the day, and families do it together. Communities, rugby teams who have got a game on, netball teams that have got a game on\u2014they talk about how they\u2019re going to get their vote done and then get to the game, or get to the game and then, when mum and dad have got all the kids at the netball and the footy, organise themselves so they can be there for the Saturday morning netball, be there for the Saturday morning football if it\u2019s on that particular day, and then still get their vote done. They talk about it. They plan it. Postal voting doesn\u2019t give that opportunity\u2014in fact, it provides a negative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe next thing is the wad and the size of that booklet that comes in the mail, and God forbid I should ever have the misfortune to live in Auckland and have to handle one of those books that comes in my mailbox. Because you\u2019re not only dealing with the mayor or the council, you\u2019re dealing with the hospital boards and you\u2019re dealing with the liquor licensing board and you\u2019re dealing with the cat control board and the love-the-bird board and every other little board and every little community group that\u2019s going\u2014and Maureen Pugh is looking at me and smiling. We know what those books look like and most people look at them, open them, and say, \u201CWho the hell are these people? I have no idea who these people are.\u201D And they put it on the \u201Ctoo hard\u201D place, which is the mantelpiece or in their little box where they keep all their incoming mail, and they say, \u201CI\u2019ll do it later.\u201D, and they don\u2019t. They don\u2019t get around to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ESome of us would argue that if territorial authorities elections day were held on one day and we physically had to get up and go and vote, and it was just about the council and just about the mayor, those stats would change enormously. Some would say that electronic voting is going to cure it all and fix it all. Well, I guess that\u2019s what select committee process is all about. So I\u2019d simply say to the select committee, good luck with your deliberations. Please listen to the submissions. Please analyse. Please apply some real common sense and think about the day that you go and vote in the general election and compare that to what we are confronted with in the territorial authority elections, and come back with an answer for us all. Because everybody across the entire House, I know, is keen to improve those unacceptable figures of 40 percent turnouts, but nobody that I\u2019ve spoken to believes, including myself, that they have the full answer themselves. I say to the select committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00229b4bb909f821485f9fe7fa953ff11ea5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b4bb909f821485f9fe7fa953ff11ea5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the member; your time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022 data-id=\u00223884f28ba09841c8aad5d29b3b0a77d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223884f28ba09841c8aad5d29b3b0a77d5\u0022\u003EDENISE LEE (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I rise in support of this bill, and I do agree with the principles of this bill and the discussion that it seeks to encourage, but that\u2019s not entirely the foundation of my support, and indeed my party\u2019s support. Instead, the support of this bill, as my colleagues before me have explained so well, is because the changes proposed in this bill are so minute, so unnecessary, and so uncontroversial that there\u2019s no principled way that we couldn\u2019t support this bill. The most significant changes proposed in this bill are in Part 1 of the bill, which seeks to better enable trials of internet voting, and in this context the word \u201Csignificant\u201D has a very loose meaning. It\u2019s the 21st century and electoral systems around the world are having to adapt to the changing times, changing technology, and discussion around that are already happening, are they not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003ENow if this bill was introducing a new system that allowed local bodies to trial online voting, it would be quite a significant change\u2014but, no. The systems are already in place to let local government trial online alternative methods. The major change that this bill is proposing is to allow these changes to take place in a local ward rather than a whole district. Is that it? Six months into this new Government and all they offer in terms of change to local government is changing from a whole district to a ward. Like so many other bills that have been introduced by this Government, it makes such minor legislative changes that it\u2019s a shame we\u2019ve got to dedicate so much of Parliament\u2019s time to not debating more pressing issues. But it is a discussion that we are having here late this afternoon, so I just want to make a few points in regards to the shift towards online voting and what this bill looks to encourage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EAs I said before, it is a sign of the times that we having this discussion, and in principle we here on the side of the House are not opposed to the shift. However, there have been recent international examples of online voting that have not had great results. So we must keep in mind that the integrity of our voting system should be always to the fore and priority for us. There may be some unintended consequences or vulnerabilities that come with online voting, and we have to be very careful around that. It\u2019s not clear that online voting will substantially increase voter turnout and engagement, so we have to have that absolute confidence that it will both increase participation and will be secure and so therefore we need to proceed with caution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EThe fundamental question\u2014and I\u2019ll just elaborate some of the points that the previous speaker, Ron Mark, has made, actually, in regard to participation in local government. Some of the reasons for that participation rate being so low are not just around the idea or the concept that postal votes are onerous. That\u2019s putting things far too simplistically. There are wider issues at play. The previous speaker is right, there\u2019s a few of us sitting right here in the House\u2014a few of us standing right here in the House\u2014who have come from a local government background, and we\u2019d know only too acutely the issues of complex voting systems. So when you get that ballot there are multiple voting systems at play: first past the post and single transferable vote all in the one spot. Ron Mark is also correct in regards to that very big fat election booklet. You do need several pairs of eyeglasses to get through that. As much as everyone\u2019s bio notes are fantastic and very personalised, they\u2019re also very long. That very thick booklet is immediately a turnoff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EWe also have trust levels in terms of apathy towards local government and voting. I come from an Auckland Council background. By Auckland Council\u2019s own admission and own polling, ways in which governance has been undertaken have undermined the trust levels of the public. It\u2019s not just about onerous postal voting; there are other wider issues at play. So what we\u2019re doing here on this side of the House is supporting this through to select committee so that we can further, and in a more detailed way, scrutinise the concept of\u2014well, actually, we\u2019ll only be scrutinising the concept of it opening up to wards, not just whole districts. But online voting itself needs a lot of scrutiny so that we get things right, the integrity of the system remains, and we can be secure in adapting changes going forward. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. We look forward to this going to scrutiny at the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00225e221b74bfaf4b86906bfe71ae83f24a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e221b74bfaf4b86906bfe71ae83f24a\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Assistant Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I feel like I might be the only one in this debate who hasn\u2019t been in local government, but it sounds like a pretty great place and a great way to make a difference for your community. Given we\u2019ve got a school group, I believe, or a sports group in the House, I think it is important to note the importance of local government to our community. This is where rates are paid, but what we as citizens get in return, of course, are roads and parks and plumbing and water. When it comes to our regional councils, they deal with where a factory can be built or what happens with the state of our environment or pollution in our rivers. So it\u2019s a really important part of our community and our country. It\u2019s different, of course, from where we are today, which is central government in Parliament, where laws are made, and central government deals with tax and police and education. So I hope you\u2019re having a great time here at Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s really important that we see more people participate in Government, and I mean both central, here in Parliament, but also local. At the last election, what we saw nationally was around 80 percent participation of enrolled voters cast a vote on election day. Compare that, though, with local government, which was 43 percent in 2016. That\u2019s down from 57 percent in 1989. So what we\u2019ve seen is a steady decline in the amount of people voting for those key, important issues, from roads to parks to forests to rivers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EOnline voting has been presented as a potential solution. Now, I don\u2019t think anyone in this House has suggested, or is suggesting, that it\u2019s a silver bullet, but what we have seen overseas is that trials have been successful in increasing participation. Now, what people know is, of course, we trialled postal voting\u2014instead of voting on election day like we do for Parliament, voting over a period through the postal system. That was effective as a short-term bump up, but it hasn\u2019t been effective in the long term, obviously, with those declining participation rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis bill establishes a regime which allows trials of online voting for local government to occur. It also helps make it possible, through allowing date of birth information to be provided and, also, analysis of that information in age bands or age cohorts. So we welcome the bill. We think it\u2019s an important thing to trial. I think it\u2019s incredibly rich of the last speaker, Denise Lee, to be criticising this bill as too modest when, in fact, it was her Government and her colleague the Hon Louise Upston who stopped the trial back in 2016, which was a great opportunity to see if it could work across the country for those councils who chose it\u2014terrible shame that it didn\u2019t go ahead. So it\u2019s incredibly unfair and deeply rich to be criticised by that member for a more modest bill when their Government actually stopped it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESo, look, I\u2019ve been a big supporter of online voting in my career in Parliament. I\u2019ve seen it work overseas. I\u2019ve always noted the concerns, though. Now, I know Hillary Clinton\u2019s been in the country recently, and she\u2019d be quite a prominent advocate of the ability of Governments to influence elections being a critical issue that democracies and Parliaments and Governments need to face. What we must have is the integrity of our voting system. We can\u2019t have certain individuals or certain foreign Governments influence elections through unfair means by, essentially, hacking the system. Other members such as Ron Mark have talked about the ability currently, through using a postal system, to have serious integrity questions raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESo we support the trial. We want to make sure that it is secure. It appears that age or date of birth information is a critical requirement. We\u2019re not like many European countries, which have a unique citizen identifier. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s something which is in line with New Zealand\u2019s values or that many Governments would ever want to see here, so the security requirements are more difficult. We see potential solutions\u2014for example, RealMe being adopted by the Government\u2014so I\u2019m really interested in hearing further from the Privacy Commissioner, who I note has raised serious concerns with this legislation, in the select committee. What we want is something that works but also, most importantly, is something which is safe and secure so all New Zealanders have confidence in their voting system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ENow, when we talk about online voting, no member has raised it as a silver bullet. It\u2019s something which, hopefully, will encourage it. It isn\u2019t a panacea for the problems. Now, what I would suggest and agree with some of the debate on is there probably are, potentially, more significant issues we as politicians, we as a country and as a democracy, could be raising to encourage democratic engagement. The engagement of you as New Zealanders in our country making those critical decisions\u2014not you, Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed8b7da1a8d94661b7de07cfc5c65b38\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222e49f7332714462b46d25dc476fea32\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: I meant the future generations of New Zealanders. What we heard, in fact, in my select committee this morning was from the Children\u2019s Commissioner, who was talking about the role of children\u2019s advocacy in policy development in New Zealand. He told us what he had heard from New Zealand kids: that if it\u2019s just consultation, it\u2019s in fact not a true representation of children\u2019s voices in the policy development. He said, \u201CIf it\u2019s something about us that\u2019s not with us, it\u2019s done to us.\u201D That was a strong message we heard. \u201CIf it\u2019s just consulting, it\u2019s insulting.\u201D was a phrase we heard from some of the kids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhat we need to make sure of, I think, within local government and central government, is that when we are consulting, there is a genuine development process. I\u2019ve, sadly, seen it in this Parliament, where literally 99 percent of submissions, including thousands of submissions, have been ignored by the majority on select committees. I\u2019ve seen submitters disrespectfully treated in committee. What this House and what local government should be encouraging is genuine participation; respecting those voices. We want more people engaged in the political system, not just on election day or during the election week; across the whole system. We want to make sure that we\u2019re taking advantage of new technology. In this case, it\u2019s online voting, but in this House of Parliament we could be taking advantage of new technology to stream our select committees, for example, which is some work that the Office of the Clerk has been leading on, and I support that going further. We want more people being able to participate and see the work of this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EA constant criticism I hear from the public and many young people in New Zealand is that when they come to Parliament or when they watch it on telly, they see politicians fighting, butting heads, and trying to score petty political points rather than talking about the substantive issues. Now, what I often say is that it\u2019s sad that people only see this side of the parliamentary or the legislative process. They don\u2019t see us working around the select committee table\u2014where MPs actually agree, where MPs try to find consensus, and where MPs collaborate. That\u2019s why I\u2019m a big supporter of live streaming\u2014or one reason why: because people actually see us working together, coming up with the solutions, which is what I think they expect from their lawmakers; not just scoring points and acting the theatre of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI guess one serious point I\u2019d like to raise to all MPs is a challenge to us to also take responsibility for declining participation in New Zealand. It\u2019s our behaviour, the way that we interact with the media, and the way that politics and our democracy is covered. We have a responsibility. We can\u2019t just blame youth, for example, which I\u2019ve heard often in this House, for being somewhat apathetic and for not being involved in their civic duty. We have a responsibility to act with integrity, to encourage those voices and people to participate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ELikewise with the way Government runs. I note that this Government has a goal of being the most open and transparent Government in our country\u2019s history. I believe we could aim to reimagine the way that Governments, Parliaments, and lawmaking works. I was proud, many years ago, to be the first member to crowdsource a member\u2019s bill, which related to internet rights and freedoms. This is a tool I think Governments could be taking more advantage of, actively involving a wide diversity of voices earlier on, and I think, actually, what we will get is better laws as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESo I look forward to hearing from the Privacy Commissioner, local government officials and representatives, and all New Zealanders in the select committee. It\u2019s a really important debate to have: how we can achieve a trial of online voting while ensuring its integrity and the security of our democratic voice. It\u2019s a step forward in our democracy that this bill is going through, I believe, unanimously tonight. I look forward to more Kiwis playing a role in their local government so that we get more playgrounds in our towns and cities\u2014eh? Kia ora, kids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u00229b638279ca304ef8bc8d5d8769393e7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b638279ca304ef8bc8d5d8769393e7b\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E This bill addresses, basically, the new voting methods for local elections and addresses the design, the trial, and also the analysis of new voting methods. It makes changes\u2014minor changes\u2014to both the Local Electoral Act and the main Electoral Act. This is not a huge bill. It\u2019s focused on some small changes. It attempts to make it easier to trial new voting methods, mainly electronic voting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ENow, electronic voting, of course, is getting increasingly popular or important, simply because we are living in an increasingly digitised world. Just like people do online shopping, so people now go online to do many other things. I understand, now, half of the New Zealand population are doing online shopping, so people would believe that online voting will become increasingly popular or increasingly important. For that reason, the National Party will support the bill to select committee, to see more details. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EHowever, on the other hand, we need to be a bit more cautious with regard to online voting, because in some countries, the Governments tried online voting, but then reverted back to traditional voting like postal voting. So online voting may not be almighty and may not be the best practice in some cases. As I mentioned, there are examples there in other countries, like in Norway, but also because we believe this bill could enable\u2014enable\u2014the trial of various voting methods. Now, there is a concern there because when you have various kinds of voting methods, people may get confused. It will then reduce turnout, instead of helping or increasing turnout, in local elections. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ETurnout for local elections has been low, and we all know that, but is the traditional postal voting the main reason for the low turnout? I think that is an issue we can debate on, but, generally speaking, we believe that there are many reasons why people do not go to vote in the local elections. For example, some other speakers have mentioned that people do not know these candidates and, therefore, they do not feel connected. I think that\u2019s perhaps one of the key reasons why people do not really go to vote in their local elections. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThere are some other reasons. For example, people may not know the functions of local governments or local organisations. They may not feel that it\u2019s important for them to participate\u2014so that can be another reason\u2014and some other people may feel that there is so much information that they can\u2019t simply digest it and, therefore, they simply give up, like many other previous speakers have mentioned. And you may say that to new immigrants, it can be a challenge, because they are not used to the political situation and the political environment in New Zealand and, therefore, they may need more time to adjust and may need more help or assistance in getting them to better know the situation or the political system in New Zealand. Language can be another barrier, for example, because the information is largely in English and is in such a hefty booklet, people feel that it\u2019s very hard for those who do not have a good mastery of English to understand the information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo there are various reasons why people do not participate in local elections. Having said that, we believe it is important for us to enable people to vote and to make it easier for people to vote. For that reason, we support the bill to the select committee. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfc360333dea43e1897bb2af4c6c2ae5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfc360333dea43e1897bb2af4c6c2ae5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand this is a split call\u2014five minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u002226cabacea4144bfcabaa0827bbaec55d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226cabacea4144bfcabaa0827bbaec55d\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I think this has been a really interesting and really useful debate\u2014the debate on this bill, which does a few things but has mainly focused on the merits of online voting. I want to make a couple of comments with a couple of different hats on, because this is, on the face of it, a logical, important modernising step in how our electoral system operates. You know, people have touched on the importance of civic engagement, breaking down the barriers to voting, the modernisation and use of new technologies in giving people options in how they cast their vote. What this bill does is it is not the introduction. I just want people out there listening to this to be clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis bill isn\u2019t actually the introduction of an online voting scheme for New Zealand. It provides that opportunity to design, trial, and do analysis of new voting methods, and any next steps would require regulations and possibly other legislation. So this is an important step. I think the reason why I\u2019ve stressed that is because in 2016 when there was a proposed trial of online voting in a number of local authorities throughout New Zealand, which seemed to be going to go ahead, that fell over and there were a number of reasons for that. I\u2019m not as across as some members are of all of the detailed reasons for that, but security issues basically resulted in a pulling back from that. I think that\u2019s an important point, and that\u2019s where I want to spend a couple of minutes talking about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EParticipation in our electoral system is a key issue and a key reason for us to go down this track and to look at it. As Gareth Hughes pointed out, you know, New Zealand does have a reputation as being an open democracy, as being at the forefront of some participatory democracy\u2014measures this Government is absolutely committed to\u2014and with 21 percent of the population not participating in voting, people not participating in census and other democratic processes, it\u2019s absolutely critical that we are looking really closely at this. We\u2019ve also got the digital divides as well, where people have low participation or no digital engagement, so this is not something that\u2019s going to work necessarily for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ESo there are some really good reasons to do it, but there are also some really good reasons to take care. For all of those techie people out there who are listening and saying \u201CDon\u2019t do it. Don\u2019t do it.\u201D because of the security issues that they\u2019ve raised before, again and again\u2014and this goes to the \u201Cwhat happens\u201D between when you cast your vote and when it gets counted and the potential for interruption in that process. We have to do it well. Blockchain technology may provide the opportunity for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI also want to stress to those people listening that no voting system is perfect\u2014no voting system. Whether it\u2019s postal, whether it\u2019s casting your vote in a ballot box, whatever your system is of voting, it\u2019s not perfect. But this is a logical step and I think it\u2019s incumbent on us as a Parliament to be going down this track. I really value the contributions from across the House on this. I know there\u2019s been a lot of thinking and I really value the contributions already at local government level in thinking about this, because it\u2019s local government where there is a lot of the issue around participation and how we can get more people to engage with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ETo all you young people up there [Addresses the public gallery], listening to this debate, this is about your future. This is about how you can participate and make change happen in New Zealand, and your vote is so precious and so important. So we have to make sure that we\u2019re doing it for you, that we\u2019re doing all of the thinking for you. I urge there to be really well-thought-out contributions on this in the select committee process. It\u2019s absolutely vital that we get all sides of this debate and that we really nut this out once and for all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u0022a749ec7231514ca39835e3675f4cd722\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a749ec7231514ca39835e3675f4cd722\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m thrilled, actually, to stand and talk on the Local Electoral Matters Bill. The National Party will be supporting it, as you\u2019ve heard, going to the next stage of select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI put it to members of this House that, really, what we\u2019re dealing with is an evolution in the voting process to the next stage. We started off with polling booths, and we actually still have those for general elections\u2014they\u2019re still there\u2014then we migrated to postal voting, and now we are looking at online in the mix. Now in the middle of that, we\u2019re not saying that it\u2019s one or the other; we\u2019re providing a series of options for people to participate in democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the Hon Louise Upston and the Hon Jacqui Dean for the work they did in the previous Government to look at this, and if it was simple and if it was easy, it would have been advanced further than it has been to date. As a former president of Local Government New Zealand, I had many discussions with those Ministers, and a fundamental part of that was actually around the integrity and security of the voting system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIf we get it wrong and if there is widespread corruption or fraud in the voting system, people actually lose confidence in that very same voting system. I agree with the member from New Zealand First the Hon Ron Mark that this is not a panacea, and nor is it likely to dramatically change the level of voter turnout, but what it is is giving\u2014particularly, young people\u2014an option to participate in democracy in a way that they may be more familiar with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThere is a risk of electoral fraud, currently, in terms of people taking postal voting papers. There was an amazing fraud, or electoral breach, really, in terms of the Australian census. The Australian census was completely corrupted by online hacking, right in the middle of when these two Ministers\u2014the previous Ministers\u2014were considering this. So as part of that, it is wise to be cautious, and we need to be very much focused on security. I also note that if you project out, in 20 years\u2019 time, the postal service\u2014if it even exists\u2014will be very different to what it is now, so the electronic mechanism of transacting business will be very different to what it is now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThis is a trial. It allows partitioning of districts. It allows wards. It allows age-related data to be collected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022536c9d822e40441cb6d09822cfd3c524\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying before the dinner break, for those that weren\u2019t here, this is actually an evolutionary process of change to go from polling booth - type voting to postal voting, and now to include electronic voting in the mix. As I previously said, international evidence would suggest it won\u2019t dramatically change voter turnout, but what it will do is allow\u2014particularly, young people\u2014an access system that\u2019s available to help them vote. Also, I expect there will be further significant changes to the postal system, so in 20 years, I imagine that postal voting will be dramatically different to what it is now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThat being said, there are some future issues that I would encourage members of the Government parties to look at. One of them is the mixed-type arrangement of voting systems at local government elections. So there can be a different type of voting system for a hospital ward, a different type of voting system for a council, and a different type of voting system for a local board or a community board\u2014often, alcohol licensing authorities or trusts\u2014and, actually, when people get their voting packs, it is so confusing for most people that they don\u2019t even know half the people or what to vote for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003ESo I would encourage the Government to look at that as a future work programme aligned to this bill, because, in my view, there is way too much information, there are actually too many choices to be made, and people are either disengaged by that or simply don\u2019t vote appropriately with the power they\u2019ve been given. For me, that often means that either people don\u2019t vote or those that have a high profile get chosen because people can\u2019t be bothered reading all the material, and when you get a pack in your voting thing that\u2019s this thick, it is completely off-putting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003ESo to the members of the Government and for members of the select committee, while it might be outside the brief, it is my view that if we want to encourage participation in local government elections, we actually need to make it as easy as possible and the least complicated it possibly can be, and I encourage the Government to look at those changes through the select committee stage. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022191802d08cd74f649efe9fa8fab8f263\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022191802d08cd74f649efe9fa8fab8f263\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Having listened to the contributions of members who spoke before me, I think it is fitting for me to say that a certain level of consensus has been reached that this bill is a very important first step. This bill is about how to modernise our elections. It\u2019s about e-enabled elections. So this bill is about moving e-democracy from a hypothetical vision to a possible established mechanism for online voting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe bill seeks to achieve two main things. The first thing is, it will enable regulations to be made so that a voting method can be developed, and, secondly, it enables a certain kind of data analysis of voter participation involving age groups and other specific data in local elections. Changes under this bill provide flexibility while designing a trial of a certain kind of new method of voting to avoid the risk of designing a trial over a larger population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EAlthough this bill does not propose a certain kind of particular new voting method, online voting is obviously topical and we do have high-level expectations from the general public and, conversely, we do have escalating challenges for postal voting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EAdvances in technologies such as social media, e-commerce, and the digital economy have changed our lives. The rise of the internet and e-commerce, the digital economy, and social media platforms have changed and transformed business and Governments\u2019 and, certainly, individuals\u2019 behaviour. New technologies such as a social media platform and cloud storage have changed the way data is to be collected, stored, used, and distributed. This has created many benefits but, at the same time, many challenges as well. We have covered these kinds of issues while debating another bill, the Privacy Bill, before this sitting block.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThis bill is about how to modernise our elections and how to introduce possible e-enabled elections. For its proponents, online voting is a way for us to modernise elections. I can list at least three more reasons to support such a claim. Firstly, if we go to, say, the South Island, to the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s electorate, we will appreciate that New Zealand is geographically extensive. We don\u2019t necessarily have many metropolitan cities and it is not easy for voters to travel, and that\u2019s certainly the case for Kiwis working or living overseas when coming to each election cycle. Secondly, it helps to facilitate access to the ballot box for those with difficulties accessing the station. Thirdly, as many members touched upon previously, online voting as a new method will definitely help engage more with young voters, although it is a big ask for us to say that online voting will be the silver bullet and it will be the solution to sort out all the problems or to help reverse the declining turnout in legislative elections worldwide. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EIt is important for us to have this bill to be introduced as the first step. Through the progress of this bill, and particularly through select committee progress where we will be able to look into the submissions, we would be better placed to understand the impact of online voting on young voters or generally on voting behaviour, especially among young voters. We would be better placed to understand the relationship between online voting, e-democracy, actual participation, and socio-economic factors such as age, gender, income, and education, etc. At the moment, we don\u2019t have the necessary data to help guide us in that direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EPreviously, data sourced internationally would offer some further grim reading. For example, turnout for European Parliament elections has decreased each cycle, from a high of 61 percent in 1979 to close to 42 percent in 2014. However, increased turnout was observed following the introduction of online voting in the 2000 Arizona Democratic primary elections in the United States, in the 2012 Budget referendum in Brazil, and in Estonian local elections for the period of 2005 and 2009. In the Republic of Estonia, an online voting method known as i-voting provides a unique solution that simply and conveniently helps to engage with younger voters. In 2005, Estonia became the first country in the world to hold nationwide elections using online voting, and in 2007\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282512e6994c644b19eed6f2f65af11d4\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Which country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221071b5e2a5064b1abeb2ac0ce35fec07\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO\u003C/span\u003E: Estonia. It made headlines as the first country to use the i-voting system in parliamentary elections. I-voting is a kind of system that enables voters to cast their votes from any internet-connected computer anywhere in the world. During the designated pre-voting period, the voter logs on using an ID card and casts a ballot. The system allows voters to vote as many times as they want, and since each vote cancels the last, the voter always has the option of updating his or her preference. The voter\u2019s identity is removed from the ballot before it reaches the national electoral commission for counting, thereby ensuring anonymity, and that leads us to the second major issue under this bill, involving data analysis in terms of age groups and other factors such as voter participation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EWhile on this particular point, there are some ideas floated that it probably is about time for us to consider some ideas involving a unified national identification document. Now we have all sorts of identity documents, ranging from driver licences to passports. Arguments for identity documents are that it helps to avoid mismatching people and to fight against fraud, and arguments against such a kind of mechanism are, understandably, data privacy and associated costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ENew Zealand, together with Australia, Canada, and the United Kingdom, does not have such kinds of unified national identity documents. In Singapore, every citizen and permanent resident aged over 15 is required to register for such a kind of ID card. The card is necessary not only for procedures of State but also for day-to-day transactions. In Singapore, they use the ID cards at schools, for instance, to identify students, both online and in exams. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ESo this is a very important step. I look forward to the progress of this bill, and especially the submissions to the extraordinarily busy Justice Committee. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffef2afca1834eef97f9299efb6c2075\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffef2afca1834eef97f9299efb6c2075\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Assistant Speaker. I\u2019m very pleased to be standing here tonight to speak to the Local Electoral Matters Bill as part of its first reading. I have a history in local government, having spent 15 years on the Westland District Council, down in the great part of this country in the South Island, but I\u2019m sure we\u2019re all in agreement here in this House that our democracy is really only as effective as those who chose to participate make it. So it\u2019s beholden on us to ensure that the system that it operates in is accessible and that people do participate in our democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe figures from the Department of Internal Affairs show that voter turnout does continue to be higher for district councils than for city or regional councils, but all councils have seen a decline since 1989, which was when the local government reforms happened. One encouraging statistic in this year, when we celebrate 125 years of women\u2019s suffrage here in New Zealand, is that the proportion of women who participate in the election process in local authorities is rising, and has been rising since 1989. So in 2016, in the last local government elections, the results show that it was the highest percentage of women candidates, which was 35 percent, and women elected, which was 38 percent, in the last 28 years, and I think that\u2019s something to be quite proud of\u2014that we are still managing to encourage women to participate in local democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBut what was also clear when I was researching some of the statistics was that rural councils tend to be much more engaged in the local democratic process than their metropolitan counterparts or their provincial counterparts. When I thought about it, I thought it\u2019s probably more to do with those high-impact local issues that encourage people to get out and take part in their local democracy. I also found that in the years where there was a mayoral election, rather than when a mayor had been elected unopposed, it tended to bring out more participation in that local democratic process. So there were other factors that influenced whether people participated in their local body elections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBut whether or not people do engage, we should still be looking to the future and making it more accessible and evolving the process, as people in communities and technology evolve with us. But it does seem a bit ironic that the postal voting, which was brought in, seems to be the most passive way of casting your vote in local authorities. The information is delivered to you, you get to scrutinise the candidates in the candidate profiles that come out, and you cast your vote on your ballot paper and put it in an envelope, all at your leisure. So you have quite a time period in which to do that and to make your assessment and to do any research that you want. So it\u2019s not an onerous process as we already have it, but I think, as I said, we still need to evolve with our electoral system as technology evolves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThere are some other stats that I thought I would show off about in the House tonight. In the great electorate of West Coast - Tasman, since\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a669e1d4ec74b60a2cd266462f613dc\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Fine electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5c77a97463244dda457292dd623aeca\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH\u003C/span\u003E: It would be inappropriate of me not to sing the praises of such a wonderful place. In the great West Coast - Tasman electorate, since the 2010 elections, we\u2019ve gone from 62 percent voter turnout down to 50.9 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223987d59cd11047c99d3a0ee7703d04e0\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: In the mighty Buller?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b04da3b597a4a079ba251ee5f1be50f\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in the Buller\u2014and in Grey, it has gone from 47.8 percent to 49.1 percent. That flies in the face of what I\u2019ve just said about a mayoral election, because that mayor has been elected unopposed five times, but it still manages to get close to 50 percent voter turnout. And in Westland, it\u2019s gone from 62.4 percent to 59 percent, and they\u2019re great stats compared to some of our metropolitan and provincial councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBut if there is a champion of local government elections turnout, that prize clearly goes to a small council in the electorate of my good friend and colleague the Hon Chris Finlayson, who is the list MP in Rongotai, and he looks after the Chathams. So the Chathams win the prize for the best local government turnout, where, in 2016\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee09686fbd9146eb8923e6ab65821adc\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: No, Paul does. He\u2019s the MP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215f143e4f3e8457db494dec0c1ffe8c0\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I said \u201Cthe list MP\u201D\u201471.9 percent of voters in the Chathams sent in their votes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow I take the point that my former mayoral colleague Ron Mark made earlier in the night about the complication of electoral voting that you get in some of those bigger councils like Auckland\u2014and I have been blessed with never having to have to deal with it. But I can imagine the size of the book that comes, the number of people that you have to review and assess. In the Chathams, it\u2019s not such an onerous process. So I imagine that because it\u2019s so simple and because there is less choice because they know everybody over there intimately, they vote. So 71.9 percent is a fantastic turnout in any democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBut we do need to keep evolving, and this bill does provide some ideas about how we bring about those changes. I\u2019ve just attended the science forum in the Grand Hall tonight, and they were talking about some of the processes around transport and the transport infrastructure and planning. You know, we can plan so far, but we simply don\u2019t know what we don\u2019t know about where technology is going to take us. But this small step in the electoral process is going to be fairly painless. It is only a trial that will break down to a small component of a ward inside a local body area, so that we can test an online system. This bill is an omnibus bill, and it will amend the Local Electoral Act of 2001 so that the trial of online voting can go ahead. That is actually allowed under the existing Act, but it can\u2019t be broken down to the size of a ward\u2014rather, it\u2019s allowed across a whole district. The omnibus bill also amends the Electoral Act of 1993, where it will enable the date of birth information to be used when designing future voting systems and the analysis of the participation by age group to be used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe other clear stat that I\u2019d like to share is around the level of engagement by people aged 18 to 35 years old. They are woefully under-represented, and we do need to find ways of encouraging them to vote. It is a little ironic that two weeks ago today, I believe, we were all celebrating with reverence Anzac Day and the sacrifice that our returned servicemen and women made to this country in defence of democracy. The participation by our young people over the years in Anzac Day services has been increasingly amazing to me, and the reverence with which they treat that day, but the very thing that our soldiers went off to defend for us\u2014to enable us to have our democracy\u2014is a little bit lost on them, I believe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ESome of us on this side of the House are a little cautious about the use of the internet for voting, and I certainly do, with my colleagues, share that caution, but I look forward to the debate going further into select committee about how we will preserve the privacy of the information that is used and the security of that information that is used. I know that the Justice and Electoral Committee, after the 2014 general election, did discuss online voting, and it was disregarded at that time, but it\u2019s clearly here for us to debate tonight, and I have pleasure in commending the bill to the House. Thank you, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022 data-id=\u0022450692042c274b69b8e8471cd698df92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022450692042c274b69b8e8471cd698df92\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. It is certainly a pleasure to have the final speaking slot for the Local Electoral Matters Bill this evening, and can I just start by acknowledging the Minister of Local Government, the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, for her passion in the sector, but also for the start of, I guess, a suite of reforms, minor or otherwise, that are focused on assisting local government. It\u2019s certainly a pleasure to know that this is the second piece of work, after the four well-beings that have been amended. However small, I believe this will have far-reaching positive outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI want to thank members of the Opposition\u2014first and foremost those who have been a part of developing this, but also for their speeches, even though right at the beginning I was bit nervous. I\u2019ve seen all of the speeches, and I was bit nervous that the member for Nelson was getting a little hysterical around what this bill was about, so it was a pleasure to see those who were in local government speaking this afternoon and this evening on the bill, saying, \u201CYes, we\u2019re going to support it.\u201D We\u2019re going to acknowledge them and some of the work they did, and this Government will certainly finish off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge, also, Local Government New Zealand and SOLGM, the Society of Local Government Managers, who really are the interface between central and local government. It\u2019s always hard hauling together local government into a room and saying, \u201CHey, what do you think?\u201D, because that view isn\u2019t a unified voice at all times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI just want to start by reflecting on the legislation itself. When you look carefully, it certainly does talk about postal voting, and for those who have\u2014look, we\u2019ve heard it this evening, when several members have talked about their personal experiences about that: everything from not having, I guess, a postbox in your local street or neighbourhood any more to be able to post the form, to others who reflected on possible fraud, about people being able to take the voting papers out of the letterbox, sign them away for the candidate they\u2019d like to see in, and find the post office or postbox to be able to post the form off. One of the improvements that I thought was great at the last local government elections was the ability to do some advance voting. Sometimes the practice defies the legislation and produces something that\u2019s decent and practical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EThe legislation also talks about polling booth voting, and this is where others have talked about the experiences that they have had when they\u2019re in the local government elections and piling through that handbook of biographies\u2014the best-written biographies you\u2019ll ever read, because I know that candidates take a long, long time to put them together. But when it comes to central government, you\u2019re back to the advance voting, yes, but you\u2019re looking for the orange person to find your polling booth, and away you go. Many still treasure the experience of being able to really practise their democratic right to be able to vote, and they save up their big moment and still physically walk into the polling booth and make their vote. They did reduce. I know when I stood I was not struggling to find them, but I certainly noticed a reduction in polling booths around too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003ESo I think, really, the legislation envisaged and made provision for other methods, so it\u2019s really only natural that methods such as electronic or online voting were always going to arrive for people to consider. I think it really picks up on those councils\u2014there are several\u2014who put their hand up to trial it, and that didn\u2019t go ahead. I actually put my hand up to say no to the trial that the Wellington City Council put before elected members, because I was not confident that the trial would be robust enough, and several of you have talked about the great thing with what\u2019s being proposed being that this trial will be able to develop regulations from that. We will be able to address the security issues, but also we will be able to ensure that those local bodies who choose to implement it can bring that work back and say, \u201CHey, this is what worked, and this is what didn\u2019t work.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI was saying to the Hon Ron Mark that one of my nervousnesses about the trial, and the reason I voted no then, was that if it went wrong, I was very nervous that the capital city of this country would be known, and googled away, and that, despite the great things in this city and region, it would be known for one thing only, and that was the corrupt or failed local council election of 2016. So, look, it didn\u2019t go ahead. I won\u2019t say the techies were right, but they certainly had their voice heard to say, \u201CHey, not right now.\u201D The time is right now, because the process for doing this has changed, and therefore I think we will see the learnings implemented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI love hearing stats, and we heard the previous speaker, Maureen Pugh, talk them through. Those are reality, because it is 41 percent here in the capital city. You would have thought that the political arousal that this place gives its residents and visitors would mean that more people would vote, but actually, no, it\u2019s no better. But can I say I admire that little pocket of the Rongotai electorate which stands tall, and thanks to the member who said it\u2019s got the highest voting population. There are only 600 people on that little wee island, but none the less those voters are important. I\u2019d just like them to swing a little more to me next time, but there are still a few more years and a few more votes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b59ee1611c44361ad902f09e184c8d3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff2b97375cca405181b1aec918c53244\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014thank you\u2014that I will be able to woo from them in my several trips down, and I will bring back not only fish and other seafood but votes as well, hopefully. [Looks at clock] I\u2019m still ticking here\u2014there we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I do pick up from the trial is a real enthusiasm, because it\u2019s tinged with that comment that lots of people have made too\u2014that there\u2019s no silver bullet. Part of this is not only about modernising the voting system; it\u2019s also about improving civic participation and that democratic right. Minister Mahuta made that clear in her opening speech right at the start. That\u2019s what underpins this piece of work and is driving the outcome from this bill going through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s really key to note, actually, that this may spark a suite of initiatives through our education system that I think is needed, and that should complement the actual experience of voting. Once we see that, and the successes, I think we\u2019ll see this become the norm. I\u2019m certainly looking forward to my local council maybe even using the ward that I live in. It is full of controversy and residents that love speaking out about everything from, I don\u2019t know, cycleways and anything else that they can get their teeth into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c615a16b3be4d88a56ecf8319003dbd\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t mention the war.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214199fae6ccc489bacfd55063dcd08ed\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t mention the \u201Cc\u201D word. But look, it certainly would be a tool, and in fact they have used that tool now in other projects\u2014such as cycleways\u2014to get a steer on where to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EThis will be a piece of work that, when implemented at the next local government elections, will really define the future of how I think Kiwis will vote. It\u2019s a pleasure to commend the bill. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221fb4efeadaab4f15abd1a52efcc6b31e\u0022\u003EBrokering (Weapons and Related Items) Controls Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d9707bb280ca4b149c28f95c6ddcd3ad\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000548\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 8 May.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002214cb8545ecc5427a8b02de13592f5a34\u0022\u003EPart 2  Brokering activity, registration, and permits (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3c5ccdecf244b658cdba929a6516e5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3c5ccdecf244b658cdba929a6516e5b\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m very happy, again, to speak on Part 2 of this particular piece of legislation. This area in the bill is all about the brokering activity, the registration process, and, obviously, the permits that are required if you are a person that has decided that you would like to broker in weapons. It is something that you don\u2019t talk very often about, but these are things that need regulation, and I\u2019m sure that the good New Zealand public would like to know that we, as parliamentarians looking after their best interests, have actually got their back on this front.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ESo, putting in some regulations: let\u2019s talk, first of all, about the registration process. One thing that I would like to just get some clarification on is about who exactly needs to register and how would they know that. I heard a little bit last night about the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) and how they would do some work in that space to be able to guide those people that are looking to participate in this area. I\u2019m just seeking a bit more clarification about what exactly that entails.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThe second part that I\u2019d like a bit of clarification on is about how the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade intends to assess the applications. This is an area that conversations have been had in select committee, I understand. The process would be, as I understand it, that MFAT would look at the applicant and decide whether or not that person was fit and proper to be registered as a broker and in accordance with the bill\u2019s criteria. There are a few things, I understand, which would make them a very undesirable\u2014[Bell rung]\u2014unfit, and improper\u2014Mr Chair? Sorry, can I carry on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ceb6e6c81fd48789b68d1ec6b18e593\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Tamati Coffey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f01fb48f6fc348c89647c0ffa7837c2f\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Sorry, I was looking at that time\u2014the things that would make them less desirable to actually be a person that brokers in weapons on behalf of New Zealand: that being, as I understand it, the breaking of any kind of United Nations Security Council resolutions, including arms embargoes, and also contravening some of our international obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI would like some clarification from the Minister, from the Table up the top, about whether or not something like that has already happened. Have there already been contraventions in this space that mean that we\u2019re having to stand here and have these conversations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI did ask some questions last night about some of the international export control regimes. I wanted to know a little bit about how we\u2019re going to comply and how we participate in them. At the time, I didn\u2019t know; since then I\u2019ve done a wee bit of homework. So if I could just get some confirmation from the Table about the Wassenaar Arrangement on Export Controls for Conventional Arms and Dual-Use Goods and Technologies. That\u2019s just one of the four that we participate with, on an international stage. The other ones\u2014the Nuclear Suppliers Group, the Australia Group, and the Missile Technology Control Regime\u2014they all sound very big and very heavy groups to be a part of. But I\u2019d just like to know a little bit more about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ETaking a little bit of a step back from the detail in here, I\u2019m also just wondering\u2014because this part is actually about brokering activity, I just wanted to know, for the sake of the people that are listening out there, how much of an issue brokering really is in New Zealand. I understand that there are 10 entities registered with MFAT under the voluntary registration scheme, but there are fewer than 11 that are actually fully engaged in the actual brokering of weapons in New Zealand. So any kind of enlightenment on that front would be welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EJust to further supplement the point that I made earlier about New Zealand meeting its obligations under the Arms Trade Treaty\u2014I\u2019m just wondering how we\u2019re sitting on that and if the reason that we\u2019re standing here having this conversation is because there has been a contravention in that space. It would also be really good to understand. I was just talking about how brokers\u2014those few people that are actually looking to engage in that space\u2014how exactly they will be engaged by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade. I understand there is that website\u2014just a little bit of information about that for prospective brokers would actually be really good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThis is a very good piece of legislation. As I say, it\u2019s a bill that\u2019s going to help New Zealanders to sleep well at night, especially in this political turmoil of a state that we find ourselves in around the world at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThere is the part that I would like to talk about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231d7dbfb0b334d5ea9888a38e0fd7288\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Hang in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022803ec52e96f748cd8921fef5604b6385\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that being Subpart 3\u2014yes, that\u2019s right; the member opposite also wanted to know about Subpart 3. So for that reason, let\u2019s talk about the criteria around permits\u2014the application for permits\u2014and what, exactly, determines the refusal for giving a permit. I also want to know how long the duration of a permit would go for. I was unsure, as I was reading the document\u2014it might be in there\u2014but just a little bit of clarification around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ENow, I understand the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade is the person that will receive the applications, and I just wanted some clarification around that, and also around the potential cancellation of a permit. What is it that actually enables the secretary to cancel a permit once an application has been made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EAll of this\u2014these points may or may not have been addressed in the select committee process, but I just wanted to take the opportunity, while we\u2019re here in the committee of the whole House stage, just to get some clarification around those points. You can see that a lot of work has been done on this, and I would absolutely commend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022dea09bb989ba4918bc7103d9fbf3cfc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dea09bb989ba4918bc7103d9fbf3cfc0\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Can I acknowledge the Minister in the chair, Ron Mark, and, in particular, the officials who are doing all the hard work, yet again, in the background. This is the first call I am making on Part 2, and, as the previous speakers indicated, its primary purpose is around brokering activity, the registration of activity, and the permits associated with it. Those on the committee and those who are reading through the bill will understand this is, sort of, the real meat of the bill, and, in that light, there are a few elements that I want to go through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThere are four subparts, and all of those are quite critical in and of themselves. I actually want to start with Subpart 2\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278a1fa7373e74c769372a96732dea8fd\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, start with 1\u2014go on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262e6a640667045a1ab4b52340ee9ec1f\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014if I might. I might jump back to Subpart 1 within Part 2, but Subpart 2 is to do with the registration of brokers, and in clause 14 it\u2019s very clear that that application\u2019s done to the secretary. We can completely understand the reasons the Minister has, effectively, delegated that power to the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade to take care of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWhere some of the questions arise\u2014and there are quite a number for me in this section. The first is around clause 15(1), where \u201Cthe Secretary is [to be] satisfied that the person is \u2026 fit and proper\u201D. Look, I\u2019m no lawyer, as I always keep saying in this House, but it would be useful to understand if there is, I suppose, a legal or common law precedent around this. Intuitively, I and the House would understand what is \u201Cfit and proper\u201D, but does that have a legal aspect to it? Some surety around that would be fantastic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI notice in clause 15(2) that the secretary is directed to make certain considerations in terms of whether a person is fit and proper. That partly begins to answer my question. However, as I read through clause 15(2), I don\u2019t think that\u2019s a complete set of definitions to make sure someone is fit and proper. In other words, if someone was to pass through all the criteria of registration in 15(2) onwards, does that therefore ipso facto make them fit and proper, or are there wider considerations? If I could, again, perhaps phrase it in a slightly different way, is there discretion available to the secretary to intervene?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EPerhaps on top of that\u2014and I don\u2019t think it is later in the bill\u2014is there any mechanism, ultimately, for the responsible Minister to step in and to, effectively, override? If that\u2019s the case, what is the mechanism there? I can imagine situations where the secretary, in complete good faith and with excellent judgment, allows someone to have a registration as a broker, but it may become known, perhaps because of the Minister\u2019s level of knowledge and information, that it\u2019s not proper\u2014can they overturn that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIn clause 15(2)(a), as it begins to define what is \u201Cfit and proper\u201D, one of the first elements to be taken into account is whether this person applying has had a conviction for an offence punishable by imprisonment for 12 months or longer. Having chaired the committee, we did look at all of this, but a question in my mind is: is 12 months sufficient, or is it a little too low? Again, I suspect there\u2019s legal precedent of what certain crimes and activities are within a 12-month imprisonment or not. But, I suppose, if you wanted to play a really straight bat and play this very strongly, we are talking about people here who are involved in a business selling weapons, be they dual or single use. They are involved in a fairly dangerous\u2014some, at times, might find it even unsavoury\u2014form of work. Is having any conviction acceptable? Is any conviction acceptable at all? Should they really come in with an absolute clean slate? Are we being a little bit too soft on this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut, I suppose, the corollary to it, to the Minister in the chair, is: are we being a little bit too tight here? I suppose the flip side is that a lot of people have committed little crimes in the past, particularly when they were younger. Should this now stop them continuing their legitimate business?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe next part\u2014and I\u2019m afraid I never quite know how to properly describe it, but it\u2019s clause 15, part (2), section (a), subpart (i)\u2014I\u2019m looking forward to some of the lawyers getting up afterwards and giving me a bit of counsel on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fe5f3cb24034de190548a52c9ff2c89\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Careful what you wish for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272f1fb94d966490396174edbdfcd5135\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a bit of a\u2014yes, I better be careful. That\u2019s all right; I\u2019ve had three lawyers on the committee with me. It\u2019s talking about \u201Cthe conviction was in a New Zealand court\u201D, and this is a concern\u2014[Interruption] It states that \u201Cthe conviction was in a New Zealand court\u201D\u2014makes perfect sense. I can think of instances, though\u2014because we, obviously, are a country of migrants; what happens if that person has been convicted in a court outside of New Zealand? It will be a relief, I\u2019m sure, to Dr Russell that I\u2019m not going to go through all 168 known countries to work\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b397b4b2c70a42f4bae4068615b2c9cf\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, go on\u2014go on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b104cee9d023403f9c75905771c09b20\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: That would be wasting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f75475f0270845948d05b74f634f603b\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: She was hoping you would.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ec85c7455ec42ecb54ca8fcadc5b501\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure she was. But it is actually a serious question: if it is known to the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade that someone has a conviction over 12 months, according to this proposed legislation\u2014if the conviction was in a court other than in New Zealand, are we allowed to act on that? So, really, at this current time, a New Zealander who\u2019s had an offence over 12 months may well not get a registration as a broker, but we can probably think of examples\u2014and I won\u2019t name names\u2014of people who have convictions from overseas, be it in fraud, dishonest behaviour, or other tautologies. Can that be taken into account?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI know this is getting quite forensic, Minister, and there\u2019s quite a bit more to go, but, in effect, should we have here a further line that convictions from jurisdictions other than the Realm of New Zealand should be taken into account? I assume, by talking about New Zealand courts and speaking of the Realm, that those from Tokelau, Cook Islands, and stuff are already included, but should we have people from overseas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s absolutely prudent that having that point about the offence committed before the commencement of the Act\u2014I think that\u2019s very prudent. The other elements in 15(2)(c) and (b), again, make perfect sense\u2014whether they\u2019ve been registered before. I do have a small question, though, around why we still have 15(2)(d), which is around the financial position of the person. You\u2019d have to ask the question: why is that particularly relevant to the brokering of weapons? I suppose, if it is a business, you want to know that they can do a business well and that the secretary doesn\u2019t want to be giving permits to business people who are going to fall over or have a proven ability to fall over again. So I suppose it\u2019s a question of asking: why is that particularly relevant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe last two points that I would like to raise around the criteria for registration\u2014and, again, always asking: are those criteria for registration the only reasons a person can be deemed fit and proper\u2014is that I don\u2019t see anything here to do with a police check. Will we be doing police checks? Is that, again, just sort of already a given? Does it not need to be in the legislation? I know, in this House, I think, pretty much both sides have always moved to put police checks on just about everything these days. We\u2019re almost at the paradox of needing to get a police check to get a police check. So why is that not part of Subpart 2 of Part 2, the \u201CRegistration of brokers\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EFinally, I would want to know, around this particular clause, whether other permits the person may hold become relevant. In my contribution yesterday, I was at pains to stress to the House that there is quite a difference between the brokering activity and then the manufacturing and selling of military grade or military quality supplies. Why that remains vitally important is, if someone is manufacturing and selling weapons\u2014to use a rather colloquial term, but if they\u2019re selling weapons we have separate legislation for that which makes perfect sense compared to this brokering one. I think it would be good for us to know, when we\u2019re dealing with the registration of brokers over here, will the secretary be moving to check what other permits have been issued; will they come into effect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI suppose the wider question, when I actually think about it here, is: does the secretary of the ministry look at all its information on that person. So if I\u2019m someone who\u2019s had multiple interactions with the ministry over time\u2014be it as a diplomat, be it as a civil servant, be it as someone who has been manufacturing weapons; whatever it is\u2014are those factors coming in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo, look, I\u2019ll round off this contribution on this very small part of Subpart 2 of Part 2 and I\u2019ll return to some others. But it\u2019s really just coming back to that core notion of what is deemed to be a \u201Cfit and proper person\u201D. Why is it that it\u2019s only convictions in New Zealand and not overseas? Why is it that the imprisonment is sitting at 12 months\u2014and I put forward, I suppose, the two reasons why it could be less and why it could be more. The question around the financial position: why\u2014particularly relevant, then, of course\u2014the elements that are the police check and so forth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002202d25c31b6f54c14b1284ae034e63524\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202d25c31b6f54c14b1284ae034e63524\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I do just want to clarify one minor point that my colleague across the House raised. I am not a lawyer either, so I approach this as someone who is not a lawyer and is not reading it as a lawyer but rather looking at some of the power relationships in this. There\u2019s a particular issue that I want to raise that I did raise in respect of Part 1, and it was satisfactorily answered there to my knowledge last night, but I want to raise it again here. That is to do with the secretary and the powers that the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade has in respect of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ELast night, when we were debating Part 1, I raised an issue in respect of\u2014they\u2019re called\u2014equivalent overseas regimes: why was the secretary judging them, not the Minister. I got a very good answer: it\u2019s to do with the technical nature of an equivalent overseas regime and how that\u2019s assessed. So when I came to Part 2 of the bill and I found that again the secretary is involved in making various decisions and in signing off on them, I actually thought that the same issue raised its head\u2014the same worry as to why it was the secretary who was vested with this power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that when we\u2019re looking at someone who is going to be registered as a broker, this is not so much a technical matter of assessing an equivalent regime or assessing the nature of particular goods; we\u2019re actually looking at the character of a person. Now, that\u2019s a different sort of thought, and, ordinarily, I would have thought that if we were making assessments of someone\u2019s character, we might expect that responsibility to rest with the Minister. The reason for having it rest with the Minister is because the Minister, of course, is subject to review every three years through the power of our triennual elections and the Minister, of course, is much more subject to public scrutiny in her or his actions than the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade, who acts as one removed, as it were, from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, I would expect that the Minister, when she or he is making those decisions, would be making them based on the advice of the secretary, but nevertheless the responsibility would rest with the Minister. But in the Act we\u2019ve got that the person who registers someone as a broker is, in fact, the secretary. I\u2019m sure there is a good reason for that. I\u2019m sure there\u2019s a particular reason why it rests with the secretary, but I would very much like to understand exactly what that reason is, and I am sure that it is something that other people would like to understand as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s all in clause 15, but if we go on to clause 16 there\u2019s another power that the secretary has. As the corollary of registering a broker, she or he can also refuse to register someone as a broker. Now, they\u2019ve got to give written notice of that refusal, but I would like to know if that written notice is going to include the reasons for the refusal. It just strikes me that as a matter of natural justice it, in fact, would be good to have those reasons as well\u2014that someone might like to understand why they were not able to carry on in their chosen trade. So it would be good to have those reasons set out for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAgain, carrying on with the secretary, who does have all these powers\u2014I just notice in clause 18A that brokers must provide an annual report. Now, that\u2019s well and good. I think that\u2019s great, to have that kind of scrutiny. But the annual report must be provided in the prescribed form and manner and contain these prescribed particulars. I did have a hunt through the bill to see what that prescribed form and manner and prescribed particulars might be, but they\u2019re not actually specified in the bill, as far as I can tell. So I\u2019d like to know what the secretary thinks a broker might be required to report on\u2014now, obviously, there\u2019ll be a particular form, but just the sorts of things that a broker might need to report to the secretary, in this case, so that the secretary understands what the broker has been doing\u2014and in exactly what sorts of details. Again, we are supervising someone\u2019s business\u2014someone\u2019s livelihood\u2014and I think we should be entitled to know a little bit about exactly what details that person must provide to the secretary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAs I said, I feel as though the secretary does have a lot of powers under this Act. I\u2019m sure it\u2019s entirely appropriate. I would like to know why they rest with the secretary in some cases rather than with the Minister, and I\u2019d like to know a little more detail around some of those powers that the secretary has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6815e0fd99b48e185307a8dea1902db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6815e0fd99b48e185307a8dea1902db\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chair, and t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa e Te Whare. This Part 2 of the Brokering (Weapons and Related Items) Controls Bill is clearly a very detailed, specific, and substantial part of the bill, and so I think it\u2019s absolutely right that members on both sides of the House are showing the inclination to adopt what my very good friend and colleague the member for T\u0101maki, Simon O\u2019Connor, described as a forensic approach to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI would like to pay a compliment to the Hon Tracey Martin, who was in the chair last night when we were considering Part 1 of this bill. I was impressed, given that she\u2019s not the Minister in charge of the bill, that when we put a number of questions to her, she did her level best to answer those, and I thank the officials who clearly assisted her to provide those answers. And I very much hope that the Minister who is in the chair tonight, Ron Mark\u2014and I acknowledge the fact that it\u2019s not his bill either, but nevertheless, given his current role as Minister of Defence, I\u2019m sure he has a very strong interest in it\u2014will be prepared to take note of the questions that have already been indicated from both sides of the House, and I\u2019m about to put a few as well, and ensure that we do receive some answers to them, because New Zealanders will, even if they\u2019re not aware of it at this stage, have a very strong interest in ensuring that we get this bill right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI have to say I am a little bit struck by the irony of the fact that the Minister in the chair, as has been noted\u2014and I won\u2019t go over it in great detail\u2014just nine months ago, when he was not a member of the Government, was saying that this is a bill that isn\u2019t necessary. Tonight he finds himself, perhaps ironically, in the chair having to promote it. It\u2019s good to see him smiling. I hope that therefore this shows that he has had a genuine road to Damascus moment and that he will be sharing with us\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b2918b75ade42c885f0fa3d4960b861\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s been told to\u2014he\u2019s been told.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ee834a2c574417dabb03022cef7dbc0\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I wouldn\u2019t dream of coming to that conclusion, Mr Carter. You may think that; I couldn\u2019t possibly comment. But I hope that he has, nevertheless, as Minister of Defence, genuinely come to see that this is not only something of significance for New Zealanders but for all of our international partners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274629d40b9904512bb0adba8ab95d40a\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s had a \u201Croad to Carterton\u201D experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f64bba64b2ad46a5abf1c457ddef9eb5\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! A \u201Croad to Carterton\u201D experience, Mr Bishop, indeed. But I didn\u2019t believe he used the roads; I thought he used alternative modes of transport! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s important\u2014this is a serious matter. So could I please concentrate, at least initially, in this call, on Subpart 1. Now, as I\u2019ve mentioned, this is an international treaty, and clause 9, \u201CRegistration and permit required for brokering activity\u201D, in subclause (1) lays out this provision: \u201CA person must not carry out a brokering activity unless the person\u2014(a) is registered as a broker; and (b) has a permit for the activity.\u201D So what I want to ask first up\u2014because I do think it\u2019s an important question\u2014is whether this requirement is mirrored in the legislation that may already be in train or that has been contemplated in comparable jurisdictions. Because, if it\u2019s not, I question just how effective it could possibly be, and we do need, in New Zealand, to have an assurance that it will be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ECan we in New Zealand be confident that the regulatory framework in countries with a greater history of insecurity, terrorism, and so on will be able to guarantee the safeguards that this subpart seeks to guarantee to us here in New Zealand? I think we have to have an answer to that question. What are we doing to monitor this? Or what will we do, given that we\u2019re probably looking at something that is still ahead of us? Will there be an international agency to oversee this requirement to achieve consistency and the highest safeguards? Because, without them, this bill probably falls into a description of being something of good intentions but not likely to achieve its purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIn clause 9A, \u201CExceptions to requirements for registration and permit\u201D, we\u2019re told that \u201CSection 9 does not apply to a person\u2014(a) who carries out a brokering activity in relation to a weapon or related item that is dual-use goods; and (b) who, before the person carries out the brokering activity, has taken reasonable steps to ensure that the dual-use goods will not be used for a prohibited use.\u201D Well, those who are interested in legislative interpretation will probably be looking at that very closely, wanting to have a clearer understanding than I confess I have at the moment. These questions are particularly important when read in conjunction with clause 9A because we need to know what is the meaning of \u201Cdual-use goods\u201D. Why is it considered to justify an exception to such an important requirement? Because it is an important requirement. Clause 9 does not apply to a person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u002288b9cc184ce7443c9d19b237f8cdc1e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288b9cc184ce7443c9d19b237f8cdc1e2\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Chair. Firstly, I want to start this, being my first call in the committee stage\u2014just to acknowledge and congratulate all of the honourable members who sat on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, who heard the submissions on this bill and, clearly, no doubt, put many of the questions that they are discussing here this evening to those submitters and to the officials at the time. I just want to acknowledge them for the work that they did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI just also want to acknowledge that I am told that all of the recommendations that that committee put forward to the Government were accepted, so, given that scrutiny by the select committee and their very thorough questioning, I will take these questions as being meaningful and purposeful. I\u2019ll attempt to answer them, given that, clearly, these questions weren\u2019t discussed at select committee, but we\u2019ll have a conversation about that some other time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThere\u2019re a couple that stand out. There\u2019ve been a lot of questions in the last few speeches, and I\u2019ll try to address a few of them. The first one I want to address is around the question of \u201Cfit and proper\u201D. I have no doubt that the very learned members of the select committee\u2014as very experienced as many of them are, including the Hon Gerry Brownlee, who\u2019s been a Minister of Defence and a Minister of Foreign Affairs\u2014would be very familiar with the term \u201Cfit and proper\u201D as pertains to licensed firearms owners, which is a well-accepted definition that is used in the Arms Act and which is used by the police to calculate, determine, and ascertain as to whether a specific individual who\u2019s applying for a firearms licence should be entitled and trusted to have such a licence and buy and sell and use firearms. So the advice that I have\u2014\u201Cfit and proper\u201D is a common term used throughout New Zealand, as I\u2019ve already explained. It\u2019s currently described in existing legislation. It\u2019s appropriately flexible for the secretary to make a judgment on a particular case. I want to acknowledge my Labour speaker Dr Deborah Russell off to my right who, I think, hit the nail squarely on the head. It is a test of character, as far as I can determine from the bill. It\u2019s a test upon which the secretary will make a judgment of that particular individual in that particular case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not possible to set an exhaustive criteria to account for every possible variation, but what it does give\u2014and the members of the committee, I know, from their experience are very aware\u2014the assessing authority is the ability to look further into the nature and the character of that individual. It certainly does; there\u2019re a number of benchmarks and tests, the 12-month threshold being one such threshold which is set, and that\u2019s a very clear threshold. That is set to exclude minor regulatory crimes that do not reflect on their fitness or properness to be a registered broker. So, I think, in the terminology and the description within the clause, it gives scope for the secretary to seek information as the secretary sees fit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIt probably explains why this has been done by the secretary, as opposed to the Minister. Those members of the committee who have been Ministers know that this is an operational matter. This is an assessment that is done lower down the tier, and the last thing the Minister wants to be involved in is analysing each and every application that is tabled. As the committee knows, they were right not to seek any amendment to that clause. They were right not to propose any changes in their report back on the bill. So I think, all in all, the House has clearly indicated to the Government that it\u2019s comfortable with those clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EOverseas convictions has been another question that\u2019s been raised in the House. The bill provides that the secretary may, when considering whether a person is a fit and proper, take into account any conviction, whether or not the conviction was in New Zealand. That\u2019s covered under clause 15(2)(a)(i). I have no doubt that that was probably canvassed by the committee at some stage, but the committee of the whole House is clearly asking for some clarification, and I give it that clarification. This will be ascertained by police checks. Twelve months is a pretty standard definition of a serious crime, and I think some might argue that it\u2019s a very low threshold, but I\u2019d ask you to consider the nature of the bill and the importance and the significance and the consequences of a permit being given inappropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EApplications for a permit will be assessed against the export controls criteria. That is currently published on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) website. For the questioner around that, can I just suggest they have a look at the MFAT website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EYes, the secretary will take into account all relevant information indicating whether the broker has been a New Zealand exporter of controlled goods. There are other questions around why the secretary and not the Minister\u2014I think I\u2019ve covered that off already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWhat will be included in the annual report? The broker will have provided significant detail in their application. The annual report will not require the broker to duplicate that information, rather it will seek to confirm what activity has taken place under the permit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EFurther advice. Do other countries have brokering laws? Another question. The bill is modelled on similar laws in Australia. Other countries including the United Kingdom, the United States, and the European Union all have brokering laws. This bill also draws on best practising guidelines in brokering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThere were a number of other questions. In the time I have available, let\u2019s deal with another one. How would MFAT assess the applications? MFAT firstly needs to assess whether an applicant is a fit and proper person. We\u2019ve discussed that. To be a registered broker, in accordance with the bill\u2019s criteria\u2014in assessing the individual brokering permit applications, MFAT intends to apply the criteria currently used to assess applications to export strategic goods. That\u2019s already been covered off. This means MFAT would refuse an application for a permit to broker goods if the brokering transaction would breach New Zealand\u2019s obligations under the United Nations Security Council resolutions, including arms embargoes; the brokering transaction would contravene New Zealand\u2019s other international obligations; or MFAT has knowledge at the time of considering the application that the goods are to be used in the commission of genocide, crimes against humanity, or war crimes\u2014sounds all sensible stuff to us. And if a permit is not declined on these grounds, a risk assessment would then be undertaken against the criteria.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThere was another question about the level of trading activity, and I\u2019ve got a sneaking suspicion that was discussed at select committee, but let\u2019s go back through that ground again. The four export control regimes that New Zealand participates in, as you know, are the Wassenaar Arrangement; the Missile Technology Control Regime; the Australia Group, which controls chemical, biological weapons - related materials; and the Nuclear Suppliers Group, which controls nuclear material, equipment, and technology. There are approximately 45 members there. They produce lists of goods to be controlled. The secretariat\u2019s had expert groups decide on the control lists. They share the information on proliferation and establish best counter-proliferation practices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe area that I really wanted to cover off was on the scale of brokering. It pretty much reflects what I said in my first reading speech. The scale of brokering activities taking place in New Zealand is limited. There are currently 11 entities registered with MFAT under the voluntary registration scheme, so let\u2019s see where that ticks up once it becomes mandatory. It could well be different. However, of those 11, less than five were potentially interested in actual brokering. I think let\u2019s just take a pinch of salt and see. While some of us may have thought that the level of trading and the level of traders in New Zealand was very small, that was under a voluntary regime. So once this is enacted, let\u2019s see how those numbers shift.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00227f702091a3cf41df80fa49cfbf3c975d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f702091a3cf41df80fa49cfbf3c975d\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I noticed when the Minister commenced his second call then that the digital clocks appear to be malfunctioning. I just wonder if it\u2019s possible to ensure that they do count down accurately from five minutes, because it\u2019s quite disconcerting if you\u2019re taking a call and you think, \u201COK, I\u2019ve got to try to get to it within a certain time.\u201D, to find that the timing is not being accurately displayed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022dac35fd94d5440248f99acb18dc86e6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dac35fd94d5440248f99acb18dc86e6e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I can assure the member that the clock that I\u2019m watching here is showing the correct one. [Interruption] Let me finish. The clocks there are indicative only. The clock that matters is here. It does have some funny peculiarity from time to time, which I haven\u2019t figured out myself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276fd7bad1d104949bef5bc36704c6bdc\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d15a17a27e24f888a41eb5368bba54e\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00228d30b1170c32471e964c2c3d3feea253\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d30b1170c32471e964c2c3d3feea253\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Chris Penk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00225dc5ede46a514725be637469eab5d4ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225dc5ede46a514725be637469eab5d4ea\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Apologies, Mac. Thank you, Mr Chair. Thank you very much indeed. I\u2019ll try and live up to the speech that I know that my colleague the Hon Tim Macindoe would\u2019ve given had he had the opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a37135d30d54470890d2594c51ddb161\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Still will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a98fe2e0683f47cfbf70a3a33fcdbcd2\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: And still will, no doubt. As to Part 2 of this bill, it seems to me that Subpart 1, being at the very beginning, would be a very good place to start, as Maria von Trapp would no doubt have said if she were speaking and had been able to take the call on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233f1d095789343a4be0d9bc19348da6d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: What did Maria von Trapp say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ae1f50f809d4a29bc79cabbc6e4a4f9\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! She said, Mr Bishop, that the beginning was a very good place to start. So, within Part 2, the first place that I would like to start is clause 9, namely, \u201CRegistration and permit required for brokering activity\u201D. This is very much the heart of the bill, it seems to me, because it states very definitively in subclause (1) that a person must not carry out a brokering activity unless one of two things applies: the first being, of course, that they are registered as a broker, and that he or she, or indeed it\u2014if we\u2019re talking about a person that\u2019s not an actual person\u2014has a permit for that activity. So much is straightforward, and therefore I shan\u2019t belabour that point any further nor call upon the Minister in the chair, Ron Mark, to provide any further explanation or clarification in relation to that. But perhaps in relation to clause 9A\u2014the exceptions\u2014some further guidance would in fact be useful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe four subclauses to this clause, naturally enough, start with the words \u201C \u2018Section 9\u2019 does not apply\u201D, and so forth\u2014being exceptions, of course, to what would otherwise be the requirements for registration and permitting. The first such exception is that for a person who carries out a brokering activity, as defined, if they\u2019re doing so in relation to dual-use goods\u2014again, as defined\u2014and take reasonable steps to ensure that they won\u2019t be used for a prohibited use, then that\u2019s a sufficient exception to avoid prosecution under the Act\u2014as it will become in due course, no doubt. So my question to the Minister in the chair\u2014whom I acknowledge is the Minister of Defence, which is not technically the sponsor of the bill, therefore, but in an area that is related\u2014is what meaning does he think might be accorded to the phrase \u201Creasonable steps\u201D within clause 9A(1)(b)?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIf I were to hazard a guess, subject to such confirmation, I would say that reasonable steps indicate that an objective standard is implied there. So the determination about whether reasonable steps have been taken to ensure that the dual-use goods won\u2019t be used for a prohibited use would be in the mind of the decision maker, in the shoes of a reasonable person, as he or she would no doubt be considered to be. So whether there are any criteria that might guide such determination is something that I think would be useful to canvass. I acknowledge the new Minister in the chair, Carmel Sepuloni, and hope that I will be able to have an answer from her, perhaps, in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe next subclause, being subclause (2) of clause 9A, again, starts with the phrase \u201CSection 9 does not apply\u201D, but this time the exception relates to brokering activity from a place outside New Zealand. I think the meaning of that\u2019s probably clear enough, and it talks also about compliance with an equivalent overseas regime, and, of course, the structure of that subclause is that both elements must be satisfied for this exception to apply because of the word \u201Cand\u201D rather than \u201Cor\u201D, for example, having being used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EMore interesting, I think, perhaps, is clause 9A(3), yet another exception, which talks about reasonable grounds again. In this case, it\u2019s where a person has carried out a brokering activity but on behalf of their employer. So the reasonableness and the objective standards in this case apply to whether there were reasonable grounds for the person carrying out the activity to believe that the employer had complied with an equivalent overseas regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2c8437424e04b87bf9123b52351a76d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2c8437424e04b87bf9123b52351a76d\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00223492f977e0e54ef3ac6fc645bf275652\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223492f977e0e54ef3ac6fc645bf275652\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. We\u2019re still on Part 2, and I think I do just need to remind the committee that we have four subparts here. I\u2019ve just been able to spend 10 minutes prior talking about Subpart 2, and, being slightly Irish, I have gone to Subpart 2 and now I want to go to Subpart 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI also wouldn\u2019t mind reminding the House that this is the substance of the bill. We\u2019ve also had, actually, I thought a very good contribution by one of the Labour members who was looking\u2014granted\u2014at clause 18A around of what the nature of annual reports are. I suspect she was interested in the grams per square metre paper quality, and so forth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut, look, Part 2, Subpart 1, is looking around the whole notion of the registration and the permit required for a brokering activity. The questions that are about to follow are actually very similar to what I raised in Part 1, around the purpose about why we split things. My colleague Chris Penk noted that a person must not carry out a brokering activity unless they\u2019re registered as a broker and have a permit for the activity. I suppose the question to the Minister in the chair, Ron Mark, is why that has been split out. What is happening there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EObviously, to be registered as a broker, one might assume that your activity is therefore permitted. So what is the distinction that is being sought in clause 9(1)(a) and (b)? I suppose, to the layman, once you\u2019re registered as a broker would it not follow that you are therefore doing an activity which is permitted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI suppose that I theorise out loud in the committee of the whole House that the registration is in the nature of you being a broker; the activities become a whole lot of separate activities that while you may have a registration to be a broker, you may be undertaking a whole series of other activities that may need to be regulated. Perhaps, it\u2019s a little bit similar to when we did some legislation in the Health Committee a couple years back around the use of radiation; that, actually, there are permits for the people, but then the activities need to be prescribed. But I wouldn\u2019t mind just a little bit of clarity around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned earlier, I sought some clarity on Part 1, clause 3, around a distinction. I found the Minister\u2019s response last night very useful. I would find it helpful here to just understand that a little bit further. I know the Minister, in his reply earlier, noted that the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee had probably asked a number of these questions. I would just note, as a committee of the whole House, that sometimes as select committee chair I may be asking questions, perhaps, for the interest of other members, but in this particular case, it\u2019s one that\u2019s, I suppose, approached my mind as I came in here today. So why has that been separated out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, the removal, as promoted, of what\u2019s now crossed out as subclauses (2), (3), and (4) of clause 9 makes perfect sense, and if I could, I thank the Parliamentary Counsel Office and the officials for clarifying this point\u2014this is around, particularly, exceptions. In the new clause 9A(1)(b), it\u2019s saying that the exemptions do not apply to a person \u201Cwho, before the person carries out the brokering activity, has taken reasonable steps to ensure that the dual-use goods will not be used for a prohibited use.\u201D So, fundamentally, and really importantly, we err on the dual-use goods; not the single use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut the question becomes: who is checking? Now, I assume it\u2019s the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade itself. As the Minister himself indicated earlier, he or she is too busy to be doing the operational side. But if someone is not having to seek registration on the basis that they, the person\u2014the potential broker\u2014has taken the reasonable steps to ensure that their goods, their dual-use goods, are not going to be used for prohibited use, who\u2019s checking up on that? I mean, the obvious thing, through to the Minister, is that someone who is intending to use dual-use goods for a military purpose just continues to be under the radar. They say, \u201COh, well, you know, I\u2019m not going to register. It\u2019s not going to apply to me. I did some steps to ensure that, you know, it\u2019s all OK.\u201D Who\u2019s checking up on that? How is that going to be found out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIn new clause 9A(2), we\u2019re in a negative space here. It\u2019s that \u201CSection 9 does not apply to a person\u2014(a) who carries out a brokering activity from a place outside New Zealand\u201D. Now, I know this was of very particular interest to a Labour member on the select committee and very much, for quite a period of time, to Green Party members around why we\u2019re only including New Zealand. I think it would be helpful\u2014and I certainly would find it helpful\u2014if the Minister will be able to articulate the reason why we are only including brokering activity inside New Zealand. Why does it not apply to someone who is outside of New Zealand? Now, obviously, it\u2019s not that our law is going to apply to someone in the United States or in Tonga. However, the really fundamental question becomes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u002218ff603b096c418a8c3ef0b51c733d61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218ff603b096c418a8c3ef0b51c733d61\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m very pleased to be able to resume my call, which was interrupted when the Minister in the chair, Ron Mark, took the first of his two calls a short time ago. I do want to thank him for doing so\u2014I mean, I was upset to be knocked off my stride in mid-flight, but I want to acknowledge the fact that the Minister did attempt to answer some questions and, I think, in a very helpful way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWe are looking at clause 9, and as my colleague, the member for T\u0101maki, has pointed out, this is the substantial part of the bill. So I was concerned when the member for Christchurch Central attempted to move a closure motion a short time ago. There\u2019s a lot in this part of the bill that we do need to look at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIf I could just resume\u2014we\u2019re, obviously looking at the provisions outlining the registration and permit required for brokering activity\u2014in new clause 9A(1)(b), we read that it specifies that \u201CSection 9 does not apply to a person\u2014who, before the person carries out the brokering activity, has taken reasonable steps to ensure that the dual-use goods will not be used for a prohibited use.\u201D Well, others of my colleagues have asked for an explanation of what those reasonable steps are. I\u2019d like to go beyond that and ask, again, in the international context, how is international consistency being achieved in this regard? In particular, how can New Zealanders be confident that what are deemed to be reasonable steps in New Zealand will apply equally in Guatemala, Malaysia, Malta, Mali, Malawi\u2014wherever we might be looking at?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENow, I was very pleased to hear the Minister give an assurance that this bill is modelled on international best practice and, in particular, reflects similar measures being adopted in Australia and other countries. I know that will be comforting to those who are listening, but the Minister in the chair made the point that some of these questions had been answered in select committee. I would just point out to him that this is the committee of the whole House. Members of the public who may be tuning in to this debate tonight didn\u2019t have the opportunity to sit in on the select committee, and most members of this Parliament were not part of that select committee, so this is our opportunity to have very detailed, clause by clause analysis of the bill in the committee of the whole House and to ensure that a much wider audience gets to hear those answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENew clause 9A(2) goes on to indicate that \u201CSection 9 does not apply to a person\u2014(a) who carries out a brokering activity from a place outside New Zealand\u201D. I\u2019d like to ask, again, what assurances can New Zealanders have that other New Zealanders\u2014because, obviously, they\u2019re the ones who are being referred to when we look at legislation that we are passing\u2014who may be of less than honest and possibly even of evil intent won\u2019t cultivate connections in countries, and, sadly, this is a feature of international terrorism, that are less committed to the rule of law and the suppression and prevention of terrorism and, frankly, our high standards of human rights in order to engage in inappropriate and/or criminal brokering? We do need to know, and we do need to be able to assure the public, that this particular bill will be able to answer those very serious concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIn clause 10, which deals with the fact that it\u2019s an offence to carry out brokering activity without registration or a permit, new subclause (1) indicates that \u201CA person commits an offence if\u2014(c) at the time that the person carries out the activity, the person knows or ought to know that (except in some circumstances) a person must not carry out a brokering activity unless the person\u2014(i) is registered as a broker; and (2) has a permit for the activity.\u201D I have to confess, I had to read that particular subclause several times and I\u2019m still confused by it. In particular, I\u2019d like to ask the Minister what is contemplated by the proviso \u201Cexcept in some circumstances\u201D? What examples can the Minister give us of what those circumstances might be? I appreciate the fact that from a legal drafting point of view, it can be fiendishly difficult to cover all possible eventualities, but, nevertheless, this is such a significant question of international security that we have to ensure that we\u2019re not just legislating for the sake of saying, \u201COK, well, we can tick the box. We\u2019ve met our international obligations.\u201D We have to ensure that these provisions are watertight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo, again, we\u2019re still just talking about clause 9 and the following clause here. There\u2019s a lot still to be covered from Part 2. I appreciate the fact that I\u2019ve raised a number of questions, so perhaps if the Minister would be good enough to take a call to answer those, and then we might be able to move further on in to Part 2 of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00221a18826f68fa4f0e80242343702d9764\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a18826f68fa4f0e80242343702d9764\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, I\u2019ll start with the last question first. Acknowledging that the Hon Tim Macindoe was on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee and assisted in the compilation of the report, could I draw his attention to page 3 of the select committee\u2019s own report. Now, I do accept the explanation this evening from the honourable members of the Opposition that they\u2019re going through this exercise of questioning for the benefit of the mums and dads that are tuned in right now and all the school kids who are doing their homework around this particular topic and are looking for some guidance as to what the legislation really intends, but I would draw the member back to their own report and the particular paragraph on page 3 that deals specifically with clause 10(1)(c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIf I might indulge the House just for a moment and read out the select committee\u2019s own report on that particular clause, it says, in particular, \u201CThe elements of the offence\u2014We recommend amending clause 10(1) to set out more clearly the elements of the offence.\u201D\u2014something which I understand from officials was accepted\u2014\u201CIn particular, clause 10(1)(c) [which] would provide that a person commits an offence if, when carrying out the brokering, they know or ought to know that (except in some circumstances) they must not do so unless they are registered or have a permit. The \u2018circumstances\u2019 referred to are the exceptions in [the] new clause 9A.\u201D Now, members might not have caught up with the amendment, but it is covered off already in the legislation, very much on the recommendations of the committee. So I thank the committee for the constructive approach to the bill, but I wouldn\u2019t have expected anything else, because, you know, the majority of the committee are National Party people who proposed the bill in the very first place and who have deep understanding of these very issues that they\u2019re canvassing here tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just come back to one other question from the honourable Simon O\u2019Connor\u2014my travelling companion from Iraq and Afghanistan\u2014who, clearly, in his position as chair of the committee, has a very genuine and serious interest in these matters. The question is around what amounts to a person taking reasonable steps to ensure that the dual-use goods will not be used for a prohibited use under the bill. It really does, from my reading of the advice, put the onus back on to the person applying. The bill only applies to dual-use goods that are listed in the New Zealand Strategic Goods List, so that puts the onus on the applicant to go and read what\u2019s listed there in New Zealand Strategic Goods List. Dual-use goods listed in the New Zealand Strategic Goods List are already subject to strict export controls in New Zealand and elsewhere under the four international export control regimes, so they should know that, if they\u2019re professionals in the field. As dealing with dual-use goods is already a controlled activity, it is not unreasonable\u2014and this advice was given to the committee, I know\u2014to expect individuals, given that this is their trade, this is their business, this is their craft, to have knowledge of their status as listed dual-use goods and to themselves, as good business practitioners, undertake due diligence as to whether they may be subject to controls and their intended end use or end user.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EReasonable steps to ensure that dual-use goods will not be used for a prohibited use under the bill include making appropriate inquiries to ascertain the intended end use or end user to see if they would be used only for a civilian purpose, and an assessment of the reliability of that information. I guess that\u2019s where we come right back to the first point, and that is ascertaining the secretary\u2019s responsibility to ascertain whether or not the applicant is a fit and proper person. Of course, a fit and proper, legitimate person who does not wish to breach international laws or contravene the treaties we have signed into would, of course, do that due diligence themselves, would they not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022545885ca2cfa470dab5f5f6f32fe58e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022545885ca2cfa470dab5f5f6f32fe58e8\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The fourth exception to the regime, in clause 9A, I can touch on pretty quickly, you may be relieved to know. This is where the bill states that the main provision prohibiting essentially brokering activity \u201Cdoes not apply in relation to anything done by or on behalf of a department.\u201D Now, the term \u201Cdepartment\u201D is, of course, defined within the bill, essentially by pointing to that equivalent definition within the Public Finance Act. That is pretty helpful, but we\u2019re still left with the implication that the bill or the activity prohibited under the bill does not apply, effectively, to the Government. So a department of the State of New Zealand can\u2019t be prosecuted under this bill because an exception is provided by the operation of clause 9A(4). So this gives rise to a couple of questions in my mind on which I would appreciate some clarification on behalf of the many New Zealanders who are no doubt following along with great interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe first is whether such activity undertaken by a New Zealand department or an employee or an individual acting on its behalf is covered elsewhere on our statute book. In other words, is there somewhere else in our legislative framework that says that such brokering activity can\u2019t be carried out by a Government department or that perhaps the Government department could be made vicariously liable for the actions of a civil servant doing the things that are prohibited by this bill? Perhaps, more of interest, more on the basis of interest than practical effects, I wonder what the justification for separating out the actions of a department are, in this way. Perhaps it relates to the historical notion of sovereign immunity such that a nation State will not be held accountable for actions that are traditionally an exercise of prerogative, but that may or may not be the case. That\u2019s simply my speculation, and I\u2019d certainly be interested to know if there is some answer that can be provided through the Minister, but perhaps by the officials on that one as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIn relation to the following clause, clause 10, \u201COffence to carry out brokering activity without registration or permit\u201D, it\u2019s stated at new subclause (1A) that \u201CIt may be presumed, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, that an exception described in section 9A does not apply.\u201D So this seems on principle a valid thing for the law to set out\u2014that an exception won\u2019t apply on a presumed basis\u2014but the evidence to the contrary that\u2019s referred to in that provision isn\u2019t defined any further. So we don\u2019t know if the evidence to the contrary need only be prima facie evidence, or perhaps merely on the balance of probability, which would be a civil standard, or would it be expected that if a matter were prosecuted in the courts, the traditional criminal standard of \u201Cbeyond reasonable doubt\u201D would apply? That much is not clear from the wording of new subclause (1A)\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d93de982da5d4267a0bdc37e16877517\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we\u2019ve been over this. Say something new.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bc6168c464d45a2bd391a187f273d2b\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and, it seems to me that for the sake of clarifying the record, and for the edification of Mr McAnulty and any others who perhaps may be struggling with that particular section, that would be a useful matter on which to have some guidance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThen my next question or discussion on which some guidance might be helpful is to do with the maximum amount of the fine in that same clause. There is an additional fine calculation to be made where the offence, in the opinion of the court, occurs in the course of producing a commercial gain. So my question then is: if a commercial gain is not in fact \u201Cproduced\u201D but is merely sought, then will the additional penalty of \u201C3 times the value of that [commercial] gain\u201D apply? In other words, will we be rewarding an individual or a person for committing an offence that does not satisfactorily or successfully result\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022c32d12154ffe4cb292aa3eeaded03641\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c32d12154ffe4cb292aa3eeaded03641\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002215758d48818a426d8fec7acf9a093725\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000659\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 24 in the name of the Rt Hon Winston Peters to Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000660\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000661\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa74a5b4f4ad48a998e56fc8a0749c56\u0022\u003EPart 3  Miscellaneous provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc0bb14b11a94bf79d8b7d6592e12897\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc0bb14b11a94bf79d8b7d6592e12897\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, we got to Part 3 a little bit quicker than I was hoping, and I\u2019m slightly disappointed I didn\u2019t get to address Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 24. I know that\u2019s now Part 2, but the additions of and the reasons for it in clauses 16 and 25 would have been useful to have discussed, I have to say, before we, effectively, voted on a SOP which we didn\u2019t get to raise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, Part 3 is \u201CMiscellaneous provisions\u201D but is actually dealing with a whole range of, effectively, consequential elements. The first is around the extraterritorial application. It was one of the elements\u2014and the Minister Ron Mark will probably appreciate this\u2014of an ongoing discussion in the committee which, yes, did conclude in terms of the report back, but is an ongoing discussion around how this bill and this Act, by the sound of where the voting\u2019s going, applies to those outside New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo much of this comes down to someone having to be a New Zealander, or, importantly, ordinarily resident in New Zealand, so we\u2019re dealing here with Part 3, clause 33(1)(a). Subparagraph (iii) has been removed here and it\u2019d be interesting to understand more fully why. Why is it that that person who \u201Chas been found in New Zealand and has not been extradited;\u201D has been removed? So we can certainly understand the situation which is the intent of the bill and is developed in Part 3, that if someone is not of New Zealand\u2014so they\u2019re not a citizen, they\u2019re not a permanent resident, so let\u2019s say they are Iranian; that seems popular at the moment\u2014if they are found to be in this country brokering weapons why would they not have been extradited? I\u2019m sure we must have a variety of extradition treaties. Is that going to be therefore part of the arms treaty, which is being discussed? Is that part of the inter-collegiality between our countries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo I mean fundamentally it\u2019s coming down to how we are in this country going to be dealing with people who are not New Zealanders who have been found to be brokering weapons and, in their case, have not been extradited. That\u2019s been removed. I would have thought there could be occasions where someone cannot be extradited, probably because it\u2019s sub judice and so we won\u2019t go there, but we can think of a few cases in general where people are arguing that they should be able to stay in New Zealand and have not been extradited. So some clarity would be useful. So again that\u2019s clause 33(1)(a)(iii).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI think the clarity is sufficient around clause 33(1)(b) and I do want to thank the officials for this, for getting very specific\u2014that if these acts or omissions have occurred aboard ships that are registered, ships of the New Zealand Defence Force obviously, aircraft, and so forth. A little bit of clarity would be useful though, because it comes up from time to time that it could be a New Zealand ship but it can be flagged to another country, or of course the flipside to that, and we\u2019re very familiar with a whole lot of other jurisdictions. We were actually doing the briefing recently on the Commission for the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources down in the Antarctic where a ship may be under the flag of another country. What happens then? So it\u2019s highly, highly unlikely\u2014in fact, I would be completely stunned\u2014that the situation would be that someone is brokering weapons from a ship with the North Korean flag. What are our options then? I\u2019m sure the Minister in the chair will take this very seriously, seeing that could jeopardise the current peace process, but it would be good to understand that a little bit more fully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESubclauses (2) and (3), I think, for me make a lot more sense. Look, in terms of the Attorney-General\u2019s consent being required, clause 33\u2014why this, I think, becomes relevant and clarity would be useful we\u2019ve partly discussed in Part 2. I\u2019m still hurting a little bit, but we partly discussed in Part 2 that the secretary is going to have all the powers required. It becomes a question then of why the Attorney-General\u2019s consent is required. I do get the feeling it\u2019s probably around if action is taken against a person. It\u2019s probably, I\u2019m guessing, that the secretary will require the Attorney-General\u2019s consent to move forward on a prosecution, but that\u2019s not at this point abundantly clear to me. So look, some clarity around that would be useful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut the fundamental question is the status of someone who is to be or is not being extradited. Then I suppose the second question is just that clarity, that if brokering is to have happened by a New Zealand citizen on a vessel flagged to another country, or in fact a non - New Zealand citizen flagged to a New Zealand ship, what exactly is going to happen there. If, for good measure, the Minister wants to address the New Zealand Defence Force assets as well, if brokering was to happen on one of Her Majesty\u2019s vessels, that would be useful too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc5e3fd44da1465482c2d4d1fafb714e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc5e3fd44da1465482c2d4d1fafb714e\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m as grateful as Mr McAnulty for the opportunity to address the committee further on this excellent piece of legislation, specifically Part 3 now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that clause 33, entitled \u201COffences committed outside New Zealand\u201D, is a really important one. The extraterritorial application, as we say, is a key feature of the bill, for reasons discussed already under the heading of Part 2, which I need not rehearse now. But some of the technical nature of that provision, I think, needs to be unpacked a bit further and stated clearly for the record, notwithstanding that some of it may have been discussed in the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee. But for the purpose of providing direction to the courts if they are to interpret this clause in the future, the issues and indeed concerns that I will raise now, I think, do deserve a response and some clarification from the Minister in the chair, if indeed he is able to provide it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo at clause 33(1)(a)(ii), it says that a person is to be charged if they are, and I quote, \u201Cordinarily resident in New Zealand;\u201D\u2014then an act or omission that they have committed will be eligible for being prosecuted under this bill. Now, the meaning of \u201Cordinarily resident\u201D is not, in fact, defined in the legislation, so in order to understand its meaning, we either have to rely on an ordinary natural meaning of the word, or perhaps consider where else we might find some guidance. So in the New Zealand statute book, I know that in the Companies Act\u2014excuse me, I believe it\u2019s in the Companies Act, certainly the application of this piece of legislation in relation to directors who are required to be New Zealand residents\u2014the standard practice is to consider \u201Cordinarily resident\u201D to mean something of the nature of dwelling in New Zealand for more than half of the days in the past 12 months. So if there\u2019s any guidance that can be provided by the Minister on that point either to confirm or deny\u2014surely he can do one or tother\u2014that would be most helpful indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIn relation to clause 33, remaining with offences committed outside New Zealand, we read in clause 33(3)(a) that we are talking about \u201Cacts or omissions that occur wholly in New Zealand;\u201D\u2014specifically, that the clause doesn\u2019t limit the application of other sections in relation to such acts or omissions. Now, it might seem an obvious point what is considered to be New Zealand for the purposes of the Act, but it\u2019s worth noting that as a matter of international law, traditionally ships of Her Majesty\u2019s navy\u2014or indeed other nations, however they might be described, outside the Commonwealth\u2014are considered the territory of that nation. So, for example, a Royal New Zealand Navy ship abroad is considered to be New Zealand territory for the purpose of international law. And so it seems that if we\u2019re talking about acts that occur wholly in New Zealand, there\u2019s a valid question to be asked there, although I do note that there is some guidance perhaps to be gained in subclause (1)(b), which does specifically talk about ships of the New Zealand Defence Force, or as I would say, perhaps in slightly parochial fashion, the Royal New Zealand Navy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe other occasion in international law in which we might have a different view of what constitutes New Zealand is in relation to diplomatic missions. So an embassy or a high commission of New Zealand, for example, physically situated on overseas soil, is considered to be New Zealand territory. So I don\u2019t suppose there\u2019s a lot of weapons brokering that takes place in such embassies\u2014perhaps in between courses of cucumber sandwiches\u2014but if it does occur, then we\u2019ll need to know. We\u2019ll need to know how that would be regarded by the courts if a prosecution were to be brought under the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo for those reasons\u2014in fact, I\u2019ve got a couple of other questions, you won\u2019t be surprised to hear, Madam Chair, but I sense my time approaching the end of its natural life, perhaps in the hope of addressing that again immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022d724f5974002446594171a7d8fe79dea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d724f5974002446594171a7d8fe79dea\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that. And could I just point out to my good colleague the member for Helensville that he does have the opportunity to seek another call. He doesn\u2019t have to take the full five minutes. In fact, I don\u2019t anticipate that I\u2019ll be taking the full five minutes for this particular call because, I have to say, I share the pain of the chair of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee that we were not able to continue asking the questions that we wished to ask on the more substantive Part 2 of the bill. But, OK, we\u2019ll get over that. We\u2019re now into Part 3, and I would just like to focus on two specific clauses of Part 3, which deals with the applications for registration and permits\u2014obviously a very important provision in any measure of this type. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIn clause 36, there are provisions for those who might choose to give false or misleading information in their applications for registration or for a permit. Specifically, clause 36(1) says, \u201CA person must not, in relation to an application for registration or a permit under this Act, supply any information that the person knows or ought to know is materially false or misleading.\u201D I don\u2019t think anyone would argue with that. It would be quite bizarre not to have a provision of that sort. But in subclause (2), we read that \u201CA person who breaches subsection (1) commits an offence and is liable on conviction,\u2014(a) in the case of an individual, to a term of imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding $10,000, or both: (b) in any other case, to a fine not exceeding $20,000.\u201D Now, the reason I want to highlight this clause is those penalties strike me as being extraordinarily light. In the context of this particularly important matter, I would have thought that that really didn\u2019t amount to much of a deterrent at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe Minister in the chair commented that I and others who are speaking tonight had a part in producing the report, and that\u2019s true. But I\u2019d point out to the Minister, I was not actually a member of the committee when it dealt with the submissions on this bill, so I have not had the opportunity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aa439ce010d4b6dae4c6b56dd97949d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8d53ab34cb3436f8b5c6be5b5cab25b\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s nice of you to say that, Mr Bishop. It\u2019s one of your more helpful interjections this evening, I have to say, but that is actually not saying very much at all. But the point I want to make is I didn\u2019t have the opportunity during the course of the hearings on the bill\u2014that were so ably chaired by Mr Simon O\u2019Connor\u2014to ask this particular question, and I would like to hear from the Minister, if I may, please, why what seems to be such a light level of penalties was decided upon, because I\u2019m not sure that it does amount to much of a deterrent at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIn particular\u2014and I feel sure that the answer will be yes, but I hope it will be\u2014do those penalties mirror the penalties that are being provided for or legislated in comparable jurisdictions? We\u2019ve heard tonight that the bill mirrors best practice internationally, and that\u2019s very good. It reflects what\u2019s happening in Australia. But, in particular, do the provisions of clause 36 and the penalties outlined therein represent best international practice and mirror what is happening elsewhere? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENow, the other question that I\u2019d like to ask, if I may, relates to clause 40, in the provision for the registration of brokers. Clause 40(2) provides that \u201CThe Secretary must ensure that the register is available to the public on an Internet site maintained by or on behalf of the Secretary.\u201D Now, again, I\u2019m the first to concede that that\u2019s perfectly understandable\u2014in most respects, you have to have some reputable way of ensuring that that information is available\u2014but I just wonder what safeguards are there for the possibly adverse consequences in providing brokers\u2019 details so publicly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENow, I recognise it\u2019s not an easy question to answer, because they have to be made available to those who have a legitimate reason to access them, but I\u2019m just wondering what protections the brokers themselves enjoy from those who might have very negative and illegal intent if they are able to access those details so publicly. In particular, what\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fac87a0c391a4578ab60ebe57c47b1ad\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Repetition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3d8c93fd92b46b382d181ef24e6c31a\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think there\u2019s any repetition on this point at all, Mr McAnulty. I haven\u2019t heard anyone raise this point whatsoever, and I would like to think that you, given the position you\u2019re occupying for the Government tonight, would also want to have an assurance that there will be appropriate monitoring of potentially illegal and inappropriate activity. I\u2019m sure your good colleague the member for \u014Ch\u0101riu, given his previous role in the police, would also want to have that assurance, because the police may well be the people who are having to monitor this provision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ll just make those two quick questions. I very much look forward to hearing the answers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc248da59d8849bf8e4c57d8555acfff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc248da59d8849bf8e4c57d8555acfff\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Marvellous\u2014thank you very much. Good to be back. Part 3\u2014I might start, if I can, with Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 24, because, again, we haven\u2019t touched on parts of it. It really is a question around clause 33. The Minister of Foreign Affairs is suggesting that we delete clause 33(4)\u2014I suspect they\u2019re just inconsequential, but, as I\u2019m often heard to be said, as a non-lawyer I\u2019m not necessarily up to speed. So at the moment, it\u2019s removing out of the clause about offences committed outside of New Zealand that \u201CFor the purposes of this section, \u2018ordinarily resident in New Zealand\u2019 has the same meaning as in section 4 of the Crimes Act 1961.\u201D So, as I understand it, the Minister is seeking to remove that from the bill as part of the SOP. It would be good to get a little bit of clarity on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWhere I want to draw my, I think, last thoughts at this point on Part 3 is around the regulation-making power\u2014so that\u2019s clause 38 onwards. I think, very prudently, we\u2019ve allowed this to be done by the Governor-General through Order in Council\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022765502b0a2354dada469ec43d93c90b2\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the usual way you do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022562522cf4d064590a8d787632c975782\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s the usual way, except we\u2019ll come back to that on some other bills which the Government\u2019s up do. But, actually, it\u2019s quite prudent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EClause 38(1)(a) talks about \u201Cprescribing fees or charges for applications\u201D. So that\u2019s, obviously, when someone seeks to become a broker. To go through the prescribed form, Mr McAnulty, it\u2019s quite a process. A fee is going to be prescribed. I suppose it\u2019s just wanting some assurance from Minister Ron Mark that there\u2019s going to be some form of limit around this. We don\u2019t want to see brokering stifled completely in New Zealand by sort of absurd fees. It\u2019s one of those sort of, I don\u2019t know, gambles or elements of trust which this House does\u2014enabling regulatory powers to be given, so that they\u2019ll be prescribed prudently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cba562e3b8d4e49803656f242ccb7f6\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Fortunately, you\u2019ve got the Regulations Review Committee to provide oversight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259e555bc8ef143d38e95359ee2a2181e\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the Hon Andrew Little does point out we have the Regulations Review Committee\u2014a fine job that they do, the bane of every select committee chair. But, yeah, just some assurance that in clause 38(1)(a) the prescribing of fees will be limited and not too onerous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIn clause 38(1)(b), it says the \u201Cprescribing particulars of brokers that must be entered on the public register\u201D. Two elements on that, Minister\u2014clarity, again, that it won\u2019t be too onerous. I suppose it\u2019s easy for us to be captured by the fact that this is often a weapons-based piece of legislation, but, actually, they are business people, too. I\u2019d like to have your assurance that it will be not too onerous and also that the necessary privacies are kept in mind\u2014you don\u2019t want someone having to publish too much of their particular selves or their businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESimilarly, around clause 38(1)(ba)\u2014I keep coming back to the notion of onerous. I\u2019m always just nervous when regulations are put in place that when we say we\u2019re going to prescribe the form of the annual report, that doesn\u2019t become, again, too burdensome. We actually heard it from a Government MP earlier\u2014I think in relation to that now emotional Part 2\u2014that they were very concerned about the nature of the report and said, you know, that we don\u2019t want to see that we\u2019re prescribing paper of 180 grams per square metre, double-sided, in colour, and in A4 or imperial format\u2014so just some surety around that. I think the prescribing of the records and so forth is very prudent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe last point that I would make in this clause 38 is around subclause (2)(b)(i), which provides that the Governor-General, through an Order in Council, may \u201Cprescribe any of the following: (i) the method by which the fees or charges are to be assessed:\u201D and made\u2014so just some clarity on what those particulars are going to be. I assume one could do it by a credit card or ATM. I suppose what I\u2019m really angling for is, in the nature of weapons brokering and good behaviour, that cash is not going to be accepted. You know, it might be imprudent of me to imply that brokers could be up to some mischief\u2014but just making it very clear that, you know, cash is not going to be one of those methods which will be prescribed there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo look, finally, that\u2019s\u2014well, actually, I\u2019ve misled somewhat. Clause 39\u2014this is to do with the disclosure of information to overseas authority. We gave this a little bit of thought. It\u2019s obvious that we do have allies around the world\u2014Canada, Australia, and, obviously, those within the UK, and I\u2019d better not forget the United States. Just around clause 39\u2014just some surety around the mechanisms of how that information is going to be shared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI want to be really clear, Minister, that I personally believe, and I think that, by and large, the select committee understands that the information that we may garner through the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade will be of use and of interest to our allies. I suppose it\u2019s just some clarity that it will be to our allies that we will be handing out that information. What that nature might be\u2014I think this clause gives relative context, but it\u2019s probably just some verbal assurance to the committee, around clause 39, about how we will be interacting with our allies, whether or not we will be proactive or whether we will be reacting to their particular requests, and to give some surety around privacy to the committee, because this is something which often comes up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAnd, again, I suppose I return to what\u2019s been my fundamental element throughout this particular contribution: we\u2019re dealing with New Zealand businesses and business people here. So, really, it comes back to the regulatory powers of the Governor-General. Does Minister Ron Mark have any sense around limits around the fees or the onus that\u2019s going to be put around the nature of these registers, around these annual reports? I think some verbal assurance\u2014if we can have it on the record that it\u2019s not going to put too much pressure on these people. We\u2019ve heard from other contributions that there\u2019s 10 or 11, but, you know, these are legitimate business people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESome surety that the methods of payment will be wide and prudent\u2014but I suspect probably not cash\u2014and some clarity on that would be welcome. And, finally, as I say, clause 39\u2014how are we dealing with the disclosure of information to overseas authorities? I assume it is our allies, but, as I\u2019ve asked, Minister, is that something we will be doing proactively, or you would imagine proactively; is it something that we will do upon request; and just some surety to the committee that our privacy provisions are where they\u2019re at. With that I think I\u2019ll, probably to the great relief of\u2014[Interruption] No\u2014did you want to stand up and say something? No? Good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022f05bc6b4dbad49ce92f0c8950523340f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f05bc6b4dbad49ce92f0c8950523340f\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to try to take a quick call just to cover off some of those questions, and, again, it\u2019s useful that the committee of the whole House is canvassing areas that the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee report didn\u2019t canvass. I assume that the members on the select committee did not see\u2014bearing in mind that they were part of the Government who actually drafted up the original bill\u2014any great need to canvass into these areas in Part 3 as deeply. It did make recommendations to amend clause 33(1)(a)(iii), recommendations which were accepted in the final draft.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EBut one of the questions was \u201CWhy military ships or aircraft?\u201D A Royal New Zealand Navy ship or Royal New Zealand Air Force aircraft is under New Zealand sovereign jurisdiction. Therefore, conducting and brokering from these would constitute an offence. I would have thought that\u2019s pretty clear. The questions around embassies and why they\u2019re not included\u2014embassies are not sovereign New Zealand soil, and there are issues around immunities there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EPenalties\u2014there are penalties for providing false and misleading information. The penalties prescribed in the bill are comparable with other New Zealand legislation, so it\u2019s a consistency argument in that space. In terms of section 4 of the Crimes Act, one of the things that I will just cover off is there are some questions around the appropriateness of the penalties, which I think the Hon Tim Macindoe raised and felt that they were not sufficiently high. I\u2019m surprised, because the select committee report has not said that. The select committee report, clearly, is silent; therefore, I assumed it agreed with the bill. But to explain and try to be helpful, the bill contains criminal penalties and civil enforcement mechanisms for offences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe key offences of conducting brokering without being registered and/or without a permit or in breach of the conditions of the registration or permit\u2014the maximum penalty for that is five years\u2019 imprisonment or a fine of up to $100,000. So I think if you look in the legislation at the low end of the offences, it provides an escalatory regime which is in compliance and conformance with existing similar New Zealand legislation. If you take that first step, which Mr Macindoe felt was a little bit low\u2014\u201CA term of imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or a fine \u2026 [of] $10,000\u201D\u2014and then you bounce that up against the top end, then an escalatory regime is in place which is applied according to the level of the offence and how it occurred. I think five years\u2019 imprisonment or a fine of up to $100,000 probably fits in the top-end zone that Mr Macindoe was thinking of, and is probably why the select committee is silent in its report on those particular clauses of Part 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffdf3fb574844872aeea0d3b4ce6cfae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffdf3fb574844872aeea0d3b4ce6cfae\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022e255d51de66f44db8e44076ed911a9b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e255d51de66f44db8e44076ed911a9b0\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Remaining in Part 3 of the proposed legislation, under the heading of \u201CAttorney-General\u2019s consents\u201D at clause 34 it\u2019s made pretty clear that the consent of the Attorney-General is required to overturn the presumption in clause 34(1) that \u201CNo charging document may be filed against any person\u201D, etc. But the form of the Attorney-General consent isn\u2019t actually specified, so it\u2019s not clear to me, although I would hope that I would know the answer instinctively, that such consent must be in writing. But I think, none the less, it\u2019s worth canvassing for the purpose of recording for posterity that such written consent would, in fact, be required, if that\u2019s to be relied upon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe reason I think that that\u2019s important is that for evidential purposes, if consent, on which so much hinges under this section, is to be given, then we need to have some sort of evidence of that fact, but also as to timing, because the timing of such consent becomes relevant under clause 34(2), where we talk about whether or not the consent of the Attorney-General has yet been obtained under subclause (1). So the timing, as well as the fact of such consent, is important, and without that we would be left, perhaps, dealing with someone accused of committing an offence under this legislation saying that they had a belief that the Attorney-General had consented, perhaps on the basis of an in-person discussion or correspondence, and then we\u2019d be left with the thorny question of whether honest opinion was sufficient to prove the belief of such consent, or whether that person would have to be acting reasonably in holding such belief. So that was one point on which I think some clarification might be helpful. I can sense that others agree with me on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAs for clause 34, I think there\u2019s a little anomaly. I anticipate a rebuke from the Minister that this was not picked up by me, among others, as a member of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, but there\u2019s a slight logical anomaly in that clause 35(3)\u2014\u201CThe Secretary may approve a form for the purposes of section 14 or 23.\u201D Yet, under clause 35(1), \u201CAn application under section 14 or 23 must\u2014(a) be in the form approved by the Secretary\u201D. So we\u2019ve, perhaps inadvertently, ended up with a regime where the person must make an application in accordance with a form approved by the Secretary, and yet the Secretary himself or herself may have not decided to approve such a form because of the words of subclause (3), which used the word \u201Cmay\u201D, which is not obligatory, of course. So if that point could be addressed, that would be a weight off all of our minds, I\u2019m sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ENow, as for clause 37\u2014I\u2019d like to preface my remarks on this with an apology in advance to the stenographers. It simply relates to the fact that there are appeals that can be made to the District Court if certain conditions are met. They are important in themselves so I\u2019ll state for the record that these are, under subclause (1), \u201C(a) to refuse to register the person as a broker: (b) to impose a condition on the person\u2019s registration: (c) to cancel the person\u2019s registration.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe syntax of that subclause actually has a succession of colons rather than semicolons, and there are no words to indicate whether all those conditions must be met or one of them alone. I think the answer is probably that one ground alone would be sufficient basis for an appeal, but the legislation does not say that. So logically the options are \u201Cand\u201D or \u201Cor\u201D, or \u201Cand\u201D and \u201Cor\u201D, which would be rendered as \u201Cand/or\u201D. If either the Minister or Sir Bernard Woolley would be able to give some help with that, that would perhaps be very helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ELater on in that same clause we hear about the District Court having the ability to allow a further period of time for an appeal, but a set of criteria or circumstances under which such further period may be granted is not specified. So there\u2019s a bit of a lack of clarity there that would perhaps be dangerous to the changes of someone who was prosecuted under this legislation. [Bell rung]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f24dc766f534d4abe505c8b67314ff1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Chris Penk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226acf0c6e8384446fb1d55314b3d767ee\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Under clause 39 now\u2014[Interruption] I\u2019m grateful for the opportunity to continue to talk about this bill. With relation to \u201CDisclosure of information to overseas authority\u201D, members will of course realise that the secretary may disclose any information held by the secretary to an overseas authority for the purpose of assisting the authority to carry out its functions, etc. Again, the same potential objection might be raised in relation to the fact that it doesn\u2019t specify whether the regulation or monitoring of brokering activity can independently exist from the prevention, detection, investigation, prosecution, or punishment, etc.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EBut I think the more important point, in terms of how this might actually practically be applied, is that the secretary has the discretion to disclose that information, and that\u2019s a lot of power to be held by one person, acting at his or her discretion. There are, it\u2019s true to note, a number of different circumstances in which it may be disclosed. But I wonder if, given the importance of the legislation, which at its heart is to provide information to another, overseas sovereign power, is such that we should require the secretary to do so if certain conditions are met, or to say that they may accept that in certain situations they should not be required to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo I think the importance of this really relates to the fact that the definition of \u201Coverseas authority\u201D is so broad. Within clause 39 itself it\u2019s said to be \u201Can overseas agency, body, or person.\u201D \u201CPerson\u201D, of course, has a very broad meaning within the law generally, and within this legislation no less so, because it can mean either, of course, a natural person or a legal person\u2014that might be a sovereign State or a body corporate, whether a company or perhaps a trust or some other mechanism as that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo perhaps it might be said that there is some room for clarification or tightening of those criteria there. I think with those comments I, perhaps, look forward to any comments that the Minister in the chair, the Hon Ron Mark, might make on those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u002222b8536f4b5e409ea981123d539b2e4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222b8536f4b5e409ea981123d539b2e4e\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E I really do want to compliment that first-term member, Chris Penk, on his ability to see his arguments through and frame them in such an entertaining way. In answer to that very deliberate and in-depth question\u2014yes. The one question I do think needs addressing\u2014well, there\u2019s a couple I\u2019ll attempt to address, but one specifically on information sharing: I think this is an important matter. I know that it was discussed within the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee. Whilst it wasn\u2019t reported on, I do know it was discussed in some depth. So, for the record and for those people who are watching this evening, the question \u201Cwill information be shared with overseas authorities?\u201D\u2014well, that\u2019s pretty fundamental and basic, given the intent and the seriousness of the matter contained within the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EDisclosure of information could be proactive and reactive, or it can take place under a range of conditions: (1) mutual legal assistance to other signatories\u2014that\u2019s mutual legal assistance mechanisms; (2) through Interpol channels\u2014there may be a need to share that information with other nations who themselves are prosecuting a case or are concerned; (3) under bilateral arrangements and agreements already struck between our nation and other signatories, between the governments\u2014these arrangements being such that they govern the sharing of information in pursuance or in accordance with any treaties that New Zealand is party to, which we have signed up to. It should not be assumed that disclosure will only be to friends or allies. The Arms Trade Treaty provides that any party can request information, and thereby New Zealand is duty-bound to assist, and participate, and comply. The disclosure provisions are based on similar provisions in other existing New Zealand legislation. So I think that was an important question; it deserved an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWhy is the Attorney-General\u2019s consent required? Legislation with extraterritorial jurisdiction generally requires the Attorney-General\u2019s consent. There we are\u2014that\u2019s pretty standard. By nature, brokering transactions will always occur outside of New Zealand. Investigations and/or\u2014or/and and and/or; did I get that right?\u2014prosecutions under the bill are likely to require assistance and cooperation from overseas authorities and considerations of a number of sensitive, complex factors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThere was another question around the meaning of \u201Cordinary resident\u201D. For the purpose of this bill, a person shall be deemed to be an ordinary resident in New Zealand if his or her home is in New Zealand; or he or she is residing in New Zealand with the intention of residing therein indefinitely; or, having resided in New Zealand with the intention of establishing his or her home therein or with the intention of residing in New Zealand indefinitely, he or she is outside New Zealand but has an intention to return to establish his or her home therein or reside. I think that\u2019s pretty consistent with existing legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EA public register of registered brokers\u2014what are the protections for brokers? Limited details of brokers will be published on the register\u2014that\u2019s clause 17(b)(i), (ii), and (iii)\u2014the broker\u2019s full name and trading name, the date of registration, and the date of expiry, and any other particulars that may be prescribed in the regulations. So I think that\u2019s pretty basic, and pretty much what one would expect where people are being registered, and permitted, and licensed to trade in international arms and weapons of that type.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00221d9ce7905c9640e692d1396e83bb1320\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d9ce7905c9640e692d1396e83bb1320\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 24 in the name of the Rt Hon Winston Peters to Part 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EPart 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 24 in the name of the Rt Hon Winston Peters to Schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c1a0b49de9ae4a03a086d40ac7fe9005\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa0c83a38cf2493c826d16eb1c346816\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002225a1242166c148f39e5009ca6583b5b1\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfb77208eb174f2bb1e17ca00c0bcd0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfb77208eb174f2bb1e17ca00c0bcd0f\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I\u2019m not sure how long I\u2019ll take on this particular debate. Clauses 1 and 2, as we also know in this, are around title and commencement, but I want to break it into two areas. The first, really, is just some queries around why in Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 24 we\u2019ve had some date changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee reported back on clause 2 that they expected that the provisions of the law would come into force on the day after the date on which the Act receives the Royal assent. The Minister of Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade, Winston Peters, for reasons I\u2019m sure are excellent, well-thought-out, and judged, has decided that it should be on 1 February 2019. Now, I assume that\u2019s for the purposes of trying to get everything in place. I certainly understand that passing legislation doesn\u2019t in itself become efficacious and therefore everything it wants just is brought into reality\u2014but some clarity from the Minister as to why we\u2019ve moved away from the date of Royal assent to 1 February. And the second part of that is why it was 1 February. I assume it\u2019s probably post the summer break, and so forth, but some clarity around that would be most welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EMadam Chair, and the Minister Ron Mark too, will also understand, of course, that we have split the commencement into various parts. So that 1 February is to apply to Part 1, which, of course, at the moment, contains preliminary provisions; Subparts 2 and 3 of Part 2\u2014so, again, I suppose one of the elements we were getting into in Part 2 was that it was a part with four subparts\u2014and, importantly, Parts 2 and 3. So that\u2019s around the registration of brokers and the permits for brokering. So they are to come into effect from 1 February. A little explanation, if possible, allowing for time, of course, would be greatly appreciated to understand exactly what\u2019s going on there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe also have, then, in clause 2(2) that the rest of the Act\u2019s going to come into effect from 1 June 2019 according to SOP 24, whereas the select committee have come back suggesting that should be 120 days, so some clarity would be welcome there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, my final thoughts are really just around the title. Sometimes it can always be seen as frivolous, but, you know, words are important. I think by and large we probably have the right idea here. There is a small question of whether or not we could have called this, simply, the \u201CArms Trade Treaty Enactment Bill\u201D, seeing as that\u2019s what it\u2019s doing. If you wanted to sort of go more generally, Minister, and sort of make a statement rather than an explanation, we could have called this the \u201CGood International Citizenship Bill\u201D. If we wanted to get a bit more particular, and perhaps to get away from the arguments between dual and single purpose, we could have called it the \u201CTransacting of Militarised Equipment Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut personally my favourite, really, is the \u201CIntercessory Military Mercantile Facilitation and Interdiction Matters Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291d0d809ae01435dba3d37238919afdc\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277d15445aa82415f96150031a72005a7\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014the \u201CIntercessory Military Mercantile Facilitation and Interdiction Matters Bill\u201D. The reason for that is bibliophiles will love it\u2014bibliophiles will love it. Look, I can tell you now, Minister, bibliophiles will be more excited\u2014more excited\u2014than an esurient thaumaturgist in an apothecary, if we go to that. So, look, \u201CIntercessory Military Mercantile Facilitation and Interdiction Matters Bill\u201D\u2014bibliophiles across the country will be excited. I tell you now. Look at the excitement, Minister. It\u2019s right here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo, look, that\u2019s really my two points again: some suggested changes in title, but I wouldn\u2019t mind a little bit of explanation around the date changes. The committee was pretty clear about what it intended to do there. I suspect these are good reasons, but it would be good to understand those more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00226d16dffee9b94f61af0289945da321de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d16dffee9b94f61af0289945da321de\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Just a brief explanation around the date changes. So I am advised that, yes, the bill\u2019s commencement clause, as amended in Supplementary Order Paper 24, specifies certain provisions of the bill relating to definitions used in the bill and the requirement to register as a broker and obtain a permit for brokering activity come into force on 1 February 2019. Most of the provisions of the bill come into force on 1 June 2019, as the honourable member Simon O\u2019Connor has just discussed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThis is to enable the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, as the new regulator, to put in place the necessary regulatory and enforcement frameworks before 1 February 2019. The staggered commencement also enables persons whose activities will be regulated under the bill to become registered and to obtain permits for brokering activity before the rest of the bill comes into force on 1 June 2019, something that I think is quite clearly very reasonable and aimed at facilitating and assisting those people who intend registering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 24 in the name of the Rt Hon Winston Peters to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the Brokering (Weapons and Related Items) Controls Bill with amendment, no progress on the Families Commission Act Repeal Bill and no progress on the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201805098683ab1c4bee4bada77302b56f7e6360000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"