"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002297aca61d39654d8c96e00be59ae14109\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 14 JUNE 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002271d49543926c4089b8b94fa43162d110\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 14 JUNE 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5b1524f233e44f9ae3b319381b85ab9\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022637e30c56c1147b695989d9cfdf50735\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00224e2894b7b5ec4207b946308f2d765346\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e2894b7b5ec4207b946308f2d765346\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week, the House will complete the remaining stages of the Land Transport Management (Regional Fuel Tax) Amendment Bill, the Taxation (Neutralising Base Erosion and Profit Shifting) Bill, and the Appropriation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297bade12ec134aeba95220489742c536\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I think we might just be having a slight problem with the microphones, and I am going to ask the Minister to start again and we\u2019ll see if they\u2019re working now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200c50ed92f874f4094e8b437bff6f3d4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Next week, the House will complete the remaining stages of the Land Transport Management (Regional Fuel Tax) Amendment Bill, the Taxation (Neutralising Base Erosion and Profit Shifting) Bill, and the Appropriation (2017/18 Supplementary Estimates) Bill, and associated Imprest Supply Bill. On Thursday 21 June, the Heretaunga Tamatea Claims Settlement Bill will receive its third reading. Other business for the week will include the second reading of the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229df574138ff54e878caeffb3aa5716a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229df574138ff54e878caeffb3aa5716a2\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E In the context of that last bill that the Leader of the House just mentioned, will it also be the Government\u2019s intention to parallel the effects of that bill by moving the Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary Bill at the same time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220eb39ddfac7640d4bc9fafc648ce76f2\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223d58842b49574063ba32bf094d2ffd82\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002275d0740ae47045fab3c8218c58d02ee5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275d0740ae47045fab3c8218c58d02ee5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E No. Following discussion at the Business Committee, I seek leave for the Subordinate Legislation Confirmation Bill to be set down for second reading forthwith after its first reading, and for the third reading forthwith following its second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6840feb256e4bec820c9c8d2ee5a378\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6840feb256e4bec820c9c8d2ee5a378\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227704aa00c8a3427f8607ec4bcaeb04de\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002268ebc4a204174d96947c04a16d9f42a5\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a8584912c4f44216871c966d5e1ee08b\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014GDP Growth, Wage Gap with Australia, and Prison Public-private Partnerships\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022287bcc362cba4ac1aed16c98efbfc937\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022287bcc362cba4ac1aed16c98efbfc937\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all his statements and policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00223b0820168cfa423aa84c11f76d866c77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b0820168cfa423aa84c11f76d866c77\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Associate Minister of Finance) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Finance: Yes, in the context in which they were given and undertaken. However, I would like to correct a statement the Minister made yesterday regarding the household living cost price indexes. Due to a transcription error, he referred to the increase in living costs since June 2008, when in fact the numbers used were for September 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022514610b760fa488bbbad1a591bdff3ba\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement that he plans to grow New Zealand\u2019s prosperity when forecast average GDP growth over the next two years has been revised downward, from 3.5 percent in Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update 2017 to just 3 percent in Budget 2018, and ANZ Bank today is saying that growth momentum has clearly slowed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243cae14cbcfe49c4a45ab51c2a6841ac\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: As with any growth forecast, there are a range of views out there. Treasury is historically one of the best forecasters, and I am confident in their Budget Economic and Fiscal Update projections of continued solid growth. The Government does not believe that buying and selling houses to each other until we can\u2019t afford them any more is a sustainable economic strategy. For too many New Zealanders, we\u2019ve seen that this kind of growth has not actually translated into improved living standards. We\u2019ve got a plan\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232ef89cc466445209c320f31517bf1c7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022965ae102df3540eebb3c7835c2bea36c\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: How can he be so dismissive of these significant growth revisions when a 0.5 percent decline in average GDP growth over the next 2 years is equivalent to around $2.3 billion in lost income for the economy, at approximately $500 per New Zealander?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a29ac38b6c804febb61b5762d5ff7fed\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat that Treasury projections are for solid economic growth. We enjoy good forecasts and we have good times ahead. I think the Minister should stop trying to talk the economy down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faafa7f99e3048dd8b41ef3d946e9c62\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Has he now given up all hope of continuing to close New Zealand\u2019s after-tax wage gap with Australia, that reduced by a third over the past decade, with the removal of National\u2019s tax bracket adjustments, imminent further tax reductions in Australia, and the slowing domestic real and per capita GDP growth trajectory under this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a9c0682bcb645869986d95ec54a11cf\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: We are planning to transition to an economy that\u2019s more productive, more sustainable, and more inclusive. We want to see New Zealanders prosper socially and economically. This Government has a plan and we\u2019re sticking with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ae2eb58332e4dbb84c9da14a05b9e6a\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was very much around closing the wage gap\u2014the after-tax wage gap with Australia. He didn\u2019t even reference that in his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022332cd6918f504c42aba64613fd2d9026\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think the member\u2019s problem is that she had a list of other things added on to it. There was certainly an attempt to answer at least one of those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4b2dea2643248128e3969460f6be2c3\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with Jacinda Ardern when she said that public-private partnerships (PPPs) in corrections \u201Cjust don\u2019t work and on that we\u2019ve been very clear\u201D, and Phil Twyford, who said that PPPs for prisons would be \u201Ca no-go for this Government\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec19e2d7bc074e55929d95e96ad71c1f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: There is clear evidence around the Government\u2019s prior experimentation with PPPs that they did not work. There are a number of perverse outcomes, and this Government has steered clear thus far of any such foolishness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247c6b69a8688451f9a96eb9f6931ead7\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: So why is a PPP now being used to fund Waikeria Prison when the use of PPPs for prisons has been clearly and repeatedly ruled out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d56f0e6e74014f89bea38f20d6bc3a00\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I don\u2019t have the detail on that in front of me. But I understand they sold the contract\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5a5fbaf041144bdbc89d777054859f6\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: They signed it and it cost $34 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277aaf0474bdd448e8c3a34407296fc16\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: They signed the contract and it cost $34 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c5246baf93142f3a6343cc2205cb439\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister of Finance confirm that there\u2019s a difference between honouring a PPP agreement entered by the previous Government to build a new prison versus having a PPP for the operation of a new prison?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc6f6d77056d4e438911b6c565662893\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m absolutely delighted to confirm that. There\u2019s a huge difference between honouring contracts and creating a stable environment for the country, and entering into agreements which have a whole lot of fish-hooks attached, which that prior Government was prone to doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e741d1ac6c0348348b9541c3d331aea3\u0022\u003ETourism, Minister\u2014Statements on Funding and Freedom Camping\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00229715e53c4da64f6984b81f322c804108\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229715e53c4da64f6984b81f322c804108\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Tourism: Does he stand by all the statements he made to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee last week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6c28fd8e9a3440eb752fd80fa66fb58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6c28fd8e9a3440eb752fd80fa66fb58\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by the statements I made regarding the tourism portfolio.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600b337d89074aaabeffabe312761316\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Following his statements at the committee last week, what does he say to taxpayers who expect him to be on top of the detail of the $170 million allocated to tourism in this year\u2019s Budget, or would he rather continue to be known as the \u201Cvacant\u201D tourism Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022149027ddc1c44da898a4d4e5856ec685\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That\u2019s not a properly worded question. The member knows that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294b1c9b775e7451b8eeba52249a7e341\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That\u2019s been widely reported in newspapers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e05205f8e514be19ff1362715f7a8a7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member should know that there is more than a slight difference in the standards required in newspapers and the standards required in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b3f314f9f1c4c5f919f7d936ffaaaaa\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to tourism operators who have seen his select committee comments that his $75 million of new money previously promised for tourism for this year\u2019s Budget has, in fact, been replaced by a $6 million cut\u2014that\u2019s an $81 million tourism broken promise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022720b39fc8a1a4f1096391e88930be640\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: The member is sort of fudging the figures there. The advice that I received from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) was that the 5 percent cut in funding to Tourism New Zealand would have no discernible impact on tourism numbers. In fact, by 2024, we\u2019re going to have 1.4 million extra visitors to New Zealand. So I\u2019m not concerned about tourism destination marketing per se. It\u2019s more about destination management now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea9640856e714b1189145e38c6129a94\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: How many meetings did he have with the Hon Nanaia Mahuta where freedom camping was discussed, when he said at the Estimates hearing that \u201CWe talk about the issue all the time.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268addd3467d44af092f9e687a0cc1194\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague the Hon Nanaia Mahuta and I have a number of meetings, both formally and informally. In fact, that\u2019s what happens, actually, when you\u2019re related. We actually also talk as cousins, for the member\u2019s information. So colleagues and I\u2014all of us colleagues\u2014discuss a whole heap of issues all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f33808156ff547b88873ab17f69ead1a\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: When he said at the Estimates that he \u201CJust took the local government portfolio responsibility for dealing with freedom camping work off the Hon Nanaia Mahuta\u201D, did he tell her first?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dbff072298b4be69fecaf96cb7a62b3\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: If I recall the conversation correctly, the member asked me, \u201CWho is responsible for freedom camping?\u201D, and I said, \u201CMyself.\u201D And she said, \u201CWhy isn\u2019t the Minister of Local Government in charge of freedom camping?\u201D, and I said, \u201CBecause I am.\u201D Now, I can\u2019t be any more straightforward than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d79f2a2f599f45e5945633490062367f\u0022\u003EPrisons\u2014Waikeria Prison and Bed Space\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f183500a2b5c44b0b56304d2a5c51a0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f183500a2b5c44b0b56304d2a5c51a0b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: Does he stand by all of his statements and actions in relation to Waikeria Prison?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022532b90b53023461cad4dc70a446fbe47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022532b90b53023461cad4dc70a446fbe47\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context they were made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b903db4ef8494ebe878277e1b72f4a1a\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: If he stands by his statement that New Zealand prisons are super-sized factories for low-level criminals, what is his definition of a low-level criminal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d4b819dd0ae4a49b02ec2e761844135\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: The member is right that our prisons are factories for criminals. In fact, that party\u2019s plans for a mega-prison are, quite frankly, wrong. American-style mega-prisons swallow up young people and churn out hardened criminals. That\u2019s the matter here. That party there, even though they had access to all the research and the best evidence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d997f4a263304aa799ded3213c84db9b\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m sure the Minister\u2019s opinions about the previous Government are interesting to him, but they aren\u2019t particularly apposite to the question that he\u2019s been asked, which was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232086d95915947abace3ea89e61d9803\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is a matter for my responsibility, Mr Brownlee, and I\u2019m waiting to see if he gets to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022908d193029c54d13b7c519871847b0b8\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll give an actual case. There is a person who is in prison for stealing a $1,000 cellphone. That person was in prison on remand at Waikeria for a matter of days before he started self-harming by stabbing himself in the groin and was sent to the at-risk unit. Those are low-level criminals who should never ever be in prison in the first place simply for shoplifting a cellphone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b230110cafdc4633967369e7948ddb59\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: If he stands by his statement that the 1,500 bed build at Waikeria is an American-style mega-prison, what is the biggest American prison by bed count?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220065c3065ca14ed6bcc3eb27356d4bec\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I have no responsibility for American prisons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229769f482603e4a44b82cec56585eb92c\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: If he stands by that previous statement, then what is the average size of an American prison? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202338cb458a8405eba0c475749e090d4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Minister said it before and probably anticipated the ruling that I should have made. This Minister has no responsibility for American prisons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022389979ecd906457b95911e5d3d8671fa\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe830614103a42aa93d99be4b344ac7e\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbc70d5539314f1ca2a4d0e9fa55c24c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Which one? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2c68fe7c5da4f61a303ca6a352ec039\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, while he may have no responsibility for any prison system in the United States, he most certainly has responsibility for his own statements, and for a Minister to make a comparative statement about an American prison, he must of course know exactly what he was comparing, otherwise it\u2019s just one of those in-the-wind statements that means nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6ceaf26691c425e9c5b8f4fd4eb9a86\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Brownlee, I heard quotes made about mega-prisons; I\u2019ve heard nothing quoted from this Minister about average American prisons, and it certainly wasn\u2019t in the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8276c75a3a04eaea51450051143dbf7\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298e404db90b743b1b88e8a2b4424f6b4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not going to be relitigating that again, is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6b0e0344c48425ab9ae19d9b853eee5\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: No, in the Minister\u2019s first answer he mentioned American-style prisons\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b8ccc058f2d4c62ae34c1d3d091567c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mega-prisons. He didn\u2019t say average prisons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e020a6b08f3d4db7878c9f420add8e34\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and so I\u2019m asking him to reflect on that and define that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288e78117f7a340c2a93c4a45a297b517\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the member asking me to do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fa14606dfe343eea3239e770dab3dfd\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Well, to get the member to answer the question, because he referred to American-style prisons in his first response\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022829f9124584342919b3c968fb0077509\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: So the member\u2019s now relitigating my ruling\u2014is that right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae51b039ed5b452b8449eda4c6881ead\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m seeking for the Minister to answer his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259ea0522dabd42568c7c4751f20a6109\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think I\u2019m going to be kind to the member and let him continue to have a supplementary\u2014not an extra one; just his next one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022728be1218b0e423a95c2db3c07b6d875\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How does his claim that his Government is focused on rehabilitation match up with the fact that he admitted yesterday that prisoners will have to sleep on mattresses on the ground because the Government haven\u2019t built enough beds to keep up with demand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022687e4778113b47a38440e22edaf9e6e4\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s misquoting me. I was asked the question \u201CWhat happens if there is a lack of bed space?\u201D, and I said, \u201CWell, every corrections system in the world has a contingency plan for just that event.\u201D So if there was an earthquake today and we had to move prisoners into another prison and there weren\u2019t enough spare beds, they have to have a contingency plan. That contingency plan is the very same contingency plan that the previous Government had, and now they\u2019re criticising us for having a contingency plan\u2014the very same one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb195865ba98471d869d0aca8ef4553e\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the member about rehabilitation. He never mentioned rehabilitation once in that answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022388a2d14dd2843c58cc37444ebd5a46e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member should\u2014I mean, I think he even read the question. He should think about what he said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a26379d319154b6495c01c7df19cfc6a\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister was asked about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b26cc9acb7e4822b64489018799c25c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. If the member argues again, he\u2019s going to be terminated from asking supplementaries. If he wants a further supplementary, he can ask one. He doesn\u2019t\u2014all right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002233b7c6d21b1c4f10bd3c3ead6ffe880d\u0022\u003EEducation\u2014M\u0101ori Achievement and Partnership Schools\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022e35f08c7a3a4442da8f7ee98750b4f1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e35f08c7a3a4442da8f7ee98750b4f1c\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education (M\u0101ori Education): What progress has he made to strengthen the capability of the education system to raise educational achievement for young M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022938a1a498e12408ba8c3ffe844d1bf6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022938a1a498e12408ba8c3ffe844d1bf6b\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E N\u0101 Te K\u0101wanatanga i whakapaohotia t\u0113tahi h\u014Dtaka mahi nui ki te whakapakari i te ao m\u0101tauranga m\u014D te rautau rua tekau m\u0101 tahi. Kei roto i t\u0113nei h\u014Dtaka e whakapakari ana i a Ka Hikitia me Te Tau Mai Te Reo. N\u0101 m\u0101tau hoki i mea me \u0101ta tirohia ng\u0101 take m\u014D ng\u0101 akonga M\u0101ori. Kai te haere tonu ng\u0101 h\u014Dtaka hou p\u0113r\u0101 i Te Ahu o Te Reo, Te Kawa m\u0101 Te Kura, me Te Whakapakaritanga o Te Kotahitanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E[The Government announced a programme of huge significance to strengthen the education system for the 21st century. Within this programme is the refinement of Accelerating Success and the M\u0101ori Language in Education strategy. We also advocated that matters related to the teaching of M\u0101ori students must be examined carefully. Programmes like Te Ahu o Te Reo, Te Kawa M\u0101 Te Kura, and Te Whakapakaritanga o Te Kotahitanga continue.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a8d123d18924da3ba626e7b6aab65cb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am now going to ask the Minister to repeat his comments and to speak a little bit more slowly so I can either keep up with it personally or through interpretation. So the Minister can choose either to translate or to repeat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280542ecf13c94c7a922ee11158ba9148\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Repeat. N\u0101 Te K\u0101wanatanga i whakapaohotia t\u0113tahi h\u014Dtaka mahi nui ki te whakapakari i te ao m\u0101tauranga m\u014D te rautau rua tekau m\u0101 tahi. Kei roto i t\u0113nei h\u014Dtaka e whakapakari ana i a Ka Hikitia me Te Tau Mai Te Reo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E[The Government announced a programme of huge significance to strengthen the education system for the 21st century. Within this programme is the refinement of Accelerating Success and the M\u0101ori Language in Education strategy.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022280e318edd5846e5acaf6b31b7c035e2\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. A number of desks on this side of the House don\u2019t have earpieces to be able to hear the interpretation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b33f492990894b32ba86ea53ce35856a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is the members\u2019 responsibility. If they\u2019ve lost their ear\u2014[Interruption]. Well, every\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221350326dfc034322bf340e3fd93d055f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, it is not a member\u2019s responsibility to provide the facilities in here. That\u2019s a ridiculous thing to say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c957ceb0734472f92f02ac11bf7289b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat. Every member at the beginning of the Parliament was provided with an earpiece which plugs in to the thing between himself and the honourable QC beside him, and it is the members\u2019 responsibility\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cad2bba999c14a82a627e47e89c2ca1e\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: No need to be a smart alec. That\u2019s totally offensive in the tone in which you used it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275d67753eaa64dde84cca37f8385f20a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The honourable member beside him. And it is a matter of plugging it in and using it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea92e30f1d8b45f58e0bddf037c9681b\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: We don\u2019t have them. They\u2019re not here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210cf2d907885457ab6f47705663c5f80\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I mean, is it my responsibility for members losing them out of their desks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d7bea1c17b8458fb3cd30d3e0ef60c1\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a139b05b8f2141a0a2287d48c85f24da\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Stop taking them home!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224650a563a63247d18f7526f65f437b4a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right. Right, I just want to say to the Deputy Prime Minister, that is not helpful, and I think he should practise being kind for when he is the Acting Prime Minister. We\u2019re now going to go back and I\u2019m going to ask Mr Davis to start again, and I\u2019m going to say to members that it is their responsibility either to leave the things plugged in, as members always used to do, so that they can use them immediately, or to keep them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3db54790c934f67aeade496715ad983\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It was here yesterday, it\u2019s not today\u2014simple.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225d5d3105faa4d1a9d3b92b52bb372e8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It\u2019s a matter of turning it on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281899e2d01ae492e838b45db987e4ca1\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100, hei t\u012Bmatanga mehemea ka ako r\u0101tau ki te k\u014Drero i Te Reo M\u0101ori, horekau t\u0113nei raruraru e p\u0101 mai, n\u0101 reira, n\u0101 Te K\u0101wanatanga i whakapaohotia t\u0113tahi h\u014Dtaka mahi nui ki te whakapakari i te ao m\u0101tauranga m\u014D te rautau rua tekau m\u0101 tahi. Kei roto i t\u0113nei h\u014Dtaka e whakapakari ana i a Ka Hikitia me Te Tau Mai Te Reo, n\u0101 m\u0101tau hoki i mea me \u0101ta tirohia ng\u0101 take m\u014D ng\u0101 akonga M\u0101ori. Kai te haere tonu ng\u0101 h\u014Dtaka hou p\u0113r\u0101 i Te Ahu o Te Reo, Te Kawa m\u0101 Te Kura, me Te Whakapakaritanga o Te Kotahitanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E[And so, as a beginning, if they had learnt to speak the M\u0101ori language this problem would not have occurred, therefore the Government announced a programme of huge significance to strengthen the education system for the 21st century. Within this is the refinement of Accelerating Success and the M\u0101ori Language in Education strategy. We also advocated that matters related to the teaching of M\u0101ori students must be examined carefully. Programmes like Te Ahu o Te Reo, Te Kawa M\u0101 Te Kura, and Te Whakapakaritanga o Te Kotahitanga continue.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293e154868ab542ae9e41d0e316b49734\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What is the number of young M\u0101ori in the 10 partnership schools whose contracts have been terminated by this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dabc7f014f1a44afa0da69282d9d808c\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Horekau he mana n\u014Dku m\u014D ng\u0101 kura hourua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E[I have no mandate in regard to partnership schools.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3bd25bc69b540dbafa931dd29f0a05b\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In the member\u2019s delegation, he is certainly responsible for lifting achievement of young M\u0101ori, and so he should know what is the number of young M\u0101ori that have no certain future in terms of partnership schools whose contracts have been terminated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e038024796654ae881bd83278eae7f34\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister answered the question. He answered it absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e44b3b32eef94efc89c22d42f43a8fee\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: No, he didn\u2019t. He said he has no responsibility. That\u2019s what he said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bf637615f824aa99e88703b0beac74d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. That is an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249efcaade4e24449811d9add0aec245a\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: He has responsibility for young M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b619789642d245afae6414b69e65b52d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s been a Minister. She knows that responsibilities within the education portfolio are divided, and, in this particular case, it\u2019s been made very clear in the House this Minister does not have responsibility for decisions around partnership schools. And the idea that any Minister should have the list of ethnicities of children in particular schools is\u2014well, some people might know, but it\u2019s not a reasonable expectation on a Minister. Now, does the member have a further supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f31d8e49fe74086bef80934e195bc58\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Speaker knows that the reality is there may be specific responsibility around decisions on partnership schools, but this Minister has a specific delegation around the achievement of young M\u0101ori and what\u2019s happening with young M\u0101ori in State schools in New Zealand. It\u2019s written into the delegation. This is a situation whereby\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022616afb6c05b44050ab94a0d337c9d376\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Ms Kaye, I have had enough now. I have ruled on this matter. If the member wanted that specific information as it related to M\u0101ori children, she may have been able to develop a primary question within the Minister\u2019s responsibilities. She\u2019s not getting it this way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b44f05f43f64caf9065a78cd2aafe03\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What has he done to ensure the welfare of the more than 800 young M\u0101ori that he is responsible for that have had their school closure confirmed and have no clarity as to what school they\u2019ll be attending next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220a32827b8a340a68fc7b419bff010b6\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I have said in this House that I have a conflict of interest around charter schools and I also have no responsibility for charter schools. She is referring to students of charter schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bdd0d325f3d4f10b6e92e31a03b4b67\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Quite apart from the extraordinary situation of a Minister with a delegation laid on the Table of the Parliament to have some responsibility for young M\u0101ori students\u2019 educational achievement stating in the House today that he has no responsibility for that, he certainly, surely, has some idea to be able to indicate to the House what will happen to young M\u0101ori students who are unable to attend their schools currently or from the end of this year, and what is his plan to assist them, given his specific delegation to be responsible for their educational achievement, stated in the document laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285961e28c9234f11a10469c83ce5aa4b\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Even in areas where Ministers have ministerial responsibility, where they have a conflict, it is not unusual\u2014and, in fact, it\u2019s expected\u2014that Ministers will declare that and not comment on the matter, because they have declared a conflict. I am the Minister responsible for partnership schools. I\u2019m happy to answer any question on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbf29836b6144305aa7ea6c4f18d7631\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s not actually been public, because I have asked a range of parliamentary questions\u2014written\u2014around whether Ministers have declared conflicts. This is the first time that we\u2019ve heard this. Am I able\u2014that\u2019s the question I have for you, as Speaker\u2014to ask the Minister to table the conflict? Because it\u2019s not public information at the moment. It\u2019s with the Cabinet Office, but if he\u2019s declared a conflict, then I think that should be available to this Parliament if I can\u2019t ask questions about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a10c72fd1fce40e49bc708ce5f39654e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister wants to table the conflict, he certainly can. If the member wants to ask the Prime Minister about conflicts that have been declared to the Cabinet Office, that can also be the subject of parliamentary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022011933946d3d41e8a97d4ce02fdd1cce\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ve actually already asked that question of the Prime Minister in written questions, and I haven\u2019t been able to get this information. So I seek leave for the Minister to table his conflict.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ce9429ccb34419cae8aabe5bc2152c7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t seek leave for another member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbc0a61f3d674b42961ebf48b300fd0d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That member and her colleagues have been repeatedly alleging that my colleague has a conflict of interest. Now she doesn\u2019t know about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be28b868c7e04873b8f4cc25830c4193\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It was not an allegation made by this side of the House; it was accepting the word of the Associate Minister of Education by this side of the House. You just said there is a conflict of interest and, therefore, he has the delegation. I know that the Deputy Prime Minister\u2014soon to be Acting Prime Minister\u2014has got a lot on his plate, but try and keep up with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f952d26b1cc34eb49d7a36442f6701e5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! Now, can I say to the Deputy Prime Minister that through that point of order, he repeatedly interjected. Can I say to the Opposition that twice when I\u2019ve been on my feet, there\u2019s been raucous behaviour. My view is that we should move on to see if Nikki Kaye has a further supplementary that she would like to ask. But we also\u2014I make it very clear\u2014have to take the word of Ministers when they indicate that they do have a conflict, and I will also say that it is not the first time in this House that I\u2019ve heard the suggestion that Mr Davis had a conflict. I think it might have come from my left in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a4a985151834cbf9f7b451476ca7dfe\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What is his conflict of interest that means that he does not feel that he can answer whether he has done anything to support the 800 young M\u0101ori whose future is uncertain because of contract termination in partnership schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e94794f1b8ea44db8c2dda63f3d33264\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before the Minister answers the question, I actually need to ask the Clerk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295b663c3eb4644918cc1ebd48dea702a\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I believe I recall that it was actually the member over there that claimed that I had a conflict of interest earlier in the year, but let me just reassure her that if any M\u0101ori student in the State system will benefit from Te Ahu o Te Reo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226797c0910cda4e948d63aeae123b33b7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Order! Order! This is very specific question that was asked by the Hon Nikki Kaye, and it goes to a very clear answer that the Minister had given previously. I want him to answer it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f214ba2c9264801b089617bb52c93d0\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know that this is a matter that you just clarified with the Clerk, because I could read your lips while you were doing it. Once a Minister has declared a conflict of interest, surely it is then up to the Prime Minister to answer questions on that conflict. Otherwise, a Minister declaring a conflict is put in this position where they have to talk about it and explain it, which partly defeats the point of declaring the conflict in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225182e9337e9145eca09f9f6578f958bd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, and I understand the point that\u2019s made, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225014bfd9c77d4282acf6982a2465946c\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: But, Mr Speaker, speaking to the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2851019b61649608922ad95895a552f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, sorry. I\u2019m going to rule, if the member doesn\u2019t mind. There are two sets of responsibilities here. There\u2019s the responsibility on the part of the Prime Minister to receive and be involved in the management of conflicts. The other part is a responsibility on individual Ministers where there are conflicts within their portfolios or delegations to declare them. I have just ruled, by asking the Hon Kelvin Davis to respond, that if he has made a declaration that precludes him from doing some of the work that might otherwise be part of his delegation, then it is appropriate for that to be\u2014at least, in summary\u2014made public. It\u2019s something that I myself did on one occasion as Associate Minister of Finance where there was a familial conflict. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fb7c493c92b47c5a8ca81c92167d761\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: To answer, the accusation was made that I had a conflict of interest because I know the leaders of the charter school Te K\u0101pehu Whet\u016B in Whangarei. As a result, I thought it was best just to step back from any decisions, any commenting, on charter schools in total, because of those allegations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242f17b784b304df8b65573f90055437b\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document. It\u2019s by the Auditor-General, but it actually has a paragraph in there that confirms that it is the Minister\u2019s responsibility to declare conflicts in this area. But supplementary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2e4c75a5134451eae764114012d139d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, which document is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241c20255c30f48019cb6e0dda56a102c\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s the Auditor-General\u2019s letter to me on these particular issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b92185d4f1684016bce4f5b0072b7aee\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: So it\u2019s a personal letter to the member?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eed43ec41bac49a2b59970e5bc63a766\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a personal letter to me. I\u2019m not sure how publicly available it is, but it\u2019s a personal letter to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228d4bb2bc165411c9d0f32c2c1f3e285\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2014the member seeks leave for that document to be tabled. Is there any objection? No, there\u2019s not. It may be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f14292541aa43a09dd8b801145ba8c9\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: On what date did he declare the conflict of interest, ruling himself out of supporting young M\u0101ori in partnership schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022482d7b1e0e0649af8c239f3666e31dd2\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: When it was discussed. To be honest, if she had wanted that information directly, she could have asked a written\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b709a5685af846cebe4e6ebd888ebbb1\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: We didn\u2019t know until now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249f5fcbb2b1e4c0cadb497ec6980abb4\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I can reply in written form, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022257b1c0916f94091a8c98ee3624725cf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sure. I mean there\u2019s\u2014well, I don\u2019t. No one can be expected to know the exact\u2014carry around the exact date of something like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d20e43270d2a4033875c88acdf659edd\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c82ad9ac8b4d417faa449f75fd535821\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278cbb51736504335b9499a3d893c07a3\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Well no, this cuts to the heart of whether the Minister was acting inappropriately on the time line as to when he declared that conflict of interest, and the date really matters. So if he doesn\u2019t know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9911a1987534f3697e3285b40327eaf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the date matters, then\u2014if the date is really important, the member, I\u2019m sure, will put down a question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c980cb8e98f14f67be862078a4f1bb1c\u0022\u003EPrisons\u2014Waikeria Prison Announcement and Reoffending Rates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002282ff7a29580d49d19a1d4f42b33a72a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282ff7a29580d49d19a1d4f42b33a72a6\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: What recent announcements has he made to address the growing prison population?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022585782ba27de4d759393c46bfd24dd4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022585782ba27de4d759393c46bfd24dd4e\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Good news. Yesterday, I was proud to announce that this Government is setting a new direction for prisons in New Zealand. We are building a 500-bed, high-security replacement prison at Waikeria and, alongside it, we will be building a 100-bed mental health facility, which will be the first of its kind\u2014adding an extra 1,500 beds to the system. Our commitment to reform our broken justice system and this Government\u2019s commitment to social investment will help to stop the growing number of people entering through our prison gates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022639d2cb034654513aefc9d27465296f6\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he decide to build a small-scale prison over a mega-prison?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6acebe6a27648838ff9661e5ce39232\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: American-style mega-prisons are crime-breeding factories. They swallow up young offenders and spit out hardened criminals\u2014sometimes a fully patched gang member. They do not keep communities safe. We have chosen to build a smaller prison because international evidence shows smaller prisons work, while mega-prisons\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7c6e5f30e0c46919e1fa4e52c40f49a\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How much protection does he need?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bbf03fd17b240718c4ab437f315be2c\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014favoured by the Opposition\u2014create better criminals, not better people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f296115cd0154602bbd61dc501ec970a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. David Bennett will stand, withdraw, and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022459e28ac2f0f48b0aee574f81df39bc0\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280f710a63e9b4483859b03db0bb489b0\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: How will his recent announcement address reoffending rates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb8e03b1babb46098d297567b294ad93\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: We know smaller prisons are more effective in providing real rehabilitation, and the 500-bed facility at Waikeria will be one of the smallest prisons in New Zealand. From the outset, it was blindingly obvious that there is a massive problem with mental health issues in our prisons. What I can\u2019t understand is why no Government took serious action to address this until now. We need to address the underlying issues facing prisoners, like mental health, through the specialised mental health facility. Otherwise, we will always struggle to address reoffending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d1864dda6f34da0905dbb3f25392df6\u0022\u003EPrisons\u2014Definition of Low-level Offenders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022b687b30f3cfa448a9cb022ff97ab6761\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b687b30f3cfa448a9cb022ff97ab6761\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s justice policies and decisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022061f6aab84e144749e373ce4ae5ae24f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022061f6aab84e144749e373ce4ae5ae24f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c88f80ac3c44bc1956c9d45b51bfce9\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister still agree with the Prime Minister\u2019s comments that we\u2019re filling our prisons with low-level criminals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f599bc3509014049b302267dfe907356\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222616406f327440f3a1af2b2423e70fd6\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: How many people are in prison for possession of cannabis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022414dfc31efd04acba87c701aa0e92963\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have that particular figure on me. What I can say is that we know that more than 50 percent of those who enter the prison system in any one year are convicted of crimes that do not entail violence or are not otherwise serious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e09fa48d6324560a89022cd01452c8d\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: What is an example of a non-violent assault?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8d9a900347f491e94a9287788ae6dc6\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The member may well be aware that earlier this year, a High Court judge in Auckland was dealing with an offender charged with indecent assault\u2014in fact, convicted of indecent assault. The actions comprising that offence were pinching the bottom of a prison officer, and the judge was having to face the fact that the prisoner, because of the operation of other law, was facing a mandatory maximum sentence of seven years. The judge said he was not going to sentence anybody to seven years for pinching somebody else\u2019s bottom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a884028ec3ff4155ba467299cb37fb01\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister just clarify for me that he just stood in the House and told us that an indecent assault is an example of a non-violent assault?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201f477bdb47143c88116a0bb8da75ae3\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: No, that member is deliberately misrepresenting what was said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3964be0c277426f8349289bd300dab8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! [Interruption] Order! The Minister should know that he cannot make that accusation, which is, effectively, a breach of privilege. The Minister will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281a0608e49c44528bb2eb4fba550bace\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. The member has misunderstood what I have said. The charge that that particular offender faced was one of indecent assault\u2014that was the name of the charge. The action which that charge related to was pinching a prison officer\u2019s bottom. Now, that is a world of difference from other actions that result in a charge of indecent assault\u2014that are genuinely more offensive, are violent\u2014and that is why the High Court judge grappled with the idea that he should sentence that offender to seven years, and he declined to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7e16d05b6dc4e0aa5e1d3f5ba52898b\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: How many people, under your definition of non-violent assaults\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240f2ff59f2624e19b83583cd8ebaea85\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263c587c49c0947f2aa3839f5d00d03ce\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014sorry, the Minister\u2019s definition of non-violent assaults\u2014are currently in prison?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283f4cdcf715e4105bbe56a3eb382f960\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I don\u2019t have that detailed figure, but I repeat: what we do know is that 50 percent of offenders entering the prison system in any one year are convicted of offences that do not entail violence and are not otherwise serious offences. That member will know that we have a sentencing Act and a sentencing regime that distinguishes between different categories of offence. There is more serious offending and there is less serious offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fee6272d24ac41ef80a1e91103a67791\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by the definition of a low-level criminal, as given to the House yesterday, as \u201Cnot committing violent crimes \u2026 [only] committing \u2026 \u2018street crimes\u2019, \u2026 younger offenders, young male offenders, those with mental health issues, those with addiction issues, those with literacy problems\u2014[actually] all people who have problems\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8733fa054804582aae7640f459f3f5c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: That is one of the more ridiculous questions asked in this House for a long period of time. The\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022701dd1d84cad4fc9bf08c54609fae4aa\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b336e3f46bc4e20a2d76ab94f31e9ed\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t at the moment see what the question can be. The member\u2019s asked does he stand by his statement made in the House yesterday, and I think what we\u2019re going to do is we\u2019re going to hear the Minister\u2019s reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1e0a268799a494d89f0409212824728\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I did not define less serious offending in those terms. That member has taken a number of statements made at different times in the House yesterday to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022111b848f4dcb411e9e6e58242e2d161e\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I need to address that because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e39c188a24c444aaa75b2100fe2c27e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014is the member disagreeing with the answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdeddbac2a474e2387cab2672874975b\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: I am. I\u2019ve got the Hansard here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b25401fefd94cf29dd0826ea0649bfa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member can\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8e56b9e5fc04374a8f156928a159408\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: As I said before, our criminal justice regime recognises a difference between more serious offending and less serious offending. That\u2019s why we have a sentencing Act. That\u2019s why we have different lengths of custodial sentence prescribed for different crimes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f0944ef52cb446c82709ffa1c47a8d6\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d hate to see if someone pinched you, whether they\u2019d get in prison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022185a3293b70847cd8b2d0bc74746ad82\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and, in fact, we have sentencing that doesn\u2019t even involve custodial sentences because the offending is at the less serious end and can be dealt with by non-custodial sentences, including with fines and other financial penalties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205b7c32b37674245a0f3ad54d39f38df\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to deal with Mr Bennett now. Mr Bennett, can you just please hold your tongue, and especially not refer to people pinching me while that happens. It hasn\u2019t happened for a very long time and it certainly shouldn\u2019t result in a prison sentence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f1030ca27d5404b913381607d7cab56\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can I just bring to your attention that the Minister just intentionally misled the House in that answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265ea298baa45449a8133483602c9fd12\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If you think that, then there\u2019s an appropriate action to take, and that wasn\u2019t it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002206a741853a47409ea06399613eea1007\u0022\u003ETransport Infrastructure\u2014\u014Ctaki to Levin Expressway and Light Rail\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022bef8d979bd3444e1a064091c90cdcd96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bef8d979bd3444e1a064091c90cdcd96\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does he stand by all his statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00226b520df0e31f47c786d319dea0bf6433\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b520df0e31f47c786d319dea0bf6433\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, including my action of putting before the House the Land Transport Management (Regional Fuel Tax) Amendment Bill, which passed its second reading in the House unanimously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc28e5f4b0ab4b78a1f000e7e10c193d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That\u2019s enough. The question is well and truly answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4f28fa8adab413fa7ef48c8772f52af\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Did he advise the Prime Minister to assure the public that the \u014Ctaki to Levin expressway would continue as planned\u2014a statement which is now false?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228edc84c9bf444f0abbf9d581c9d5d6a0\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I advised the Prime Minister to say that\u2014at the time she was asked that question\u2014nothing had changed in relation to that highway project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222553cefb2173467083d1888ca856f0e5\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Prime Minister when she stated in relation to Labour\u2019s Government policy statement that \u201C\u014Ctaki is continuing in the same way. If we hadn\u2019t done anything last week, \u014Ctaki would be in exactly the same position as it is now and will continue to be.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd39c8dc7aeb46648d90ffb186717b74\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: At the time the Prime Minister made that statement, the exploratory work, the public consultation around the future alignment of that roading project, was continuing. The Prime Minister was correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257c1a0b4aac248e1a882f89ef101c6d5\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: When will he tell the Prime Minister that her statement in April is now false, given that the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) is re-evaluating the \u014Ctaki to Levin expressway?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4890a24476b430db4f863fbc260ea11\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The NZTA is now re-evaluating that expressway. It\u2019s re-evaluating and rescoping dozens and dozens of roading projects around the country. In light of the Government policy statement on land transport, which prioritises safety and which prioritises access, reducing carbon emissions, and resilience, it\u2019s a great transport policy and it\u2019s going to deliver a fantastic transport system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022020c3b97e37042278686f6bb9825b3bd\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: How has the Government updated its policy on light rail?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed0d566db4c7415497ad62c71d94fbb2\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Both this Government and the previous one had plans for light rail. The previous Government began work on route protection, but wanted to wait to start construction until 2047. This Government believes that three decades is a little too long to leave Aucklanders stuck in worsening congestion, so we\u2019ve made light rail a priority and we\u2019ve begun the process to start building it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac10b3fbeda04f9da8fcbe8b7dd73321\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the NZTA representative who said in the Dominion Post this morning that the \u014Ctaki to Levin expressway was being re-evaluated \u201Cto better align with the new Labour-led Government\u2019s transport policy\u201D\u2014something the Prime Minister said would not happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b7c13cd4e4140928d13672818d13fe0\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree with that NZTA staffer because she just articulated something that\u2019s almost exactly the same as the answer I just gave in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e46b4db38a054496ad49c986d306de49\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Minister as to whether or not the successful passage of his bill through the House with the support of all sides of Parliament is an example of being a lion in the electorate and a lamb in Parliament?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235ad30856eb94ee991cc57f4fade38eb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f27035fa49e7463398392ac3668fb12a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s wrong with that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022178fa7f253304e0e973c1c48258d8c47\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Minister has no responsibility for other members\u2019 behaviour inside or outside of the Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229971bd2f97354b22b685d9f9eacf5704\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Funding for Drug and Alcohol Treatment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u0022af76a6c0786d46228429b6712a0c7042\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af76a6c0786d46228429b6712a0c7042\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What is the Government doing to increase the number of alcohol and drug detoxification beds in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0dcd2c94694423ababd17c14f46452e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0dcd2c94694423ababd17c14f46452e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, the Government announced a one-off $16.7 million investment to build two floors at the Auckland City Mission\u2019s new HomeGround facility. When construction is complete in two years\u2019 time, it will house 30 studio units for alcohol and drug detoxification. It\u2019s a 50 percent increase on the current 20 beds that are funded in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0069a1e02ed44a7adb22c96beb23228\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: How is this investment being funded?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e9433bf6f3b40e097d0767eb4fb162a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The funding will be drawn from funding recovered under the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act. As the Prime Minister said, it feels entirely appropriate that we use the money that has been accumulated through misery to end misery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac91a0629a2048929ce840e06eede0d3\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this investment important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3630c77ad184dfa9ada8f320b9ee44d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: We know that demand for detox and treatment programmes is high. Too often, people are waiting too long to get the help they need. Programmes like the one at Auckland City Mission make a significant difference\u2014it is tried and true. This investment will help turn lives around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9e0372feec44949aded0c8df202a0a7\u0022\u003ERegional Economic Development, Minister\u2014Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002224b7dc77fac14918906365bc51e0e135\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224b7dc77fac14918906365bc51e0e135\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Regional Economic Development: Does he stand by his reported statement that \u201Cas the CEO leaves Fonterra, the chairman should in quick order catch the next cab out of town\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2a2efc5e5c5443fb896ff50b166f7ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2a2efc5e5c5443fb896ff50b166f7ea\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a90163ce5ac84e178a4f8ace05c77550\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Did he accept the Prime Minister\u2019s judgment the last time he called for the sacking or resignation of a board member of a company: \u201CCalling for the sacking of any board member is a step too far, and I have told him that.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e308b71b6434e10a4f5a2f9d56b28f4\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: A little bit of context around this issue: I originally gave those remarks in the context of an event that was bound by Chatham House Rules. Members in that audience\u2014either with Fonterra or a National Party member\u2014chose to leak them, so I simply stood up and have got no compunction to repeat what I said to the face of so-said man, the soon to be departed leader of Fonterra.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a4f164965ca406397cdb4513f90e16d\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Then why is he defying the Prime Minister by doing it again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d29b4e0cd9824a688eda0949a6f63688\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister and I have a very warm and respectful relationship and I have an extraordinarily high level of admiration, and that admiration will stretch even to a higher level in several weeks\u2019 time. There has been nothing said by me, there has been nothing articulated in this small episode, other than to stand up and show that whilst I am a friend of business, unlike that member, I am no sycophant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1450297bb064cb38a7c37f15a7f4d7c\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Since making those comments, what has the Prime Minister or her office said to him about his comments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5d479a506374b988a3cd91498dc5e85\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have much to do with the Prime Minister\u2019s office; I have a great deal to do with the Deputy Prime Minister\u2019s office. In terms of what remarks may have passed between my good self and the Prime Minister, they lie within the context of our relationship. But I can assure you, I stand by my remarks in terms of accountability that should be shown by a failing corporate governance culture at the highest levels of our largest company\u2014and if a cab doesn\u2019t suit, then shanks\u2019s pony is just as good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3f04f4587db4a27a1cc1f9174bb80e6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister saying that if the farmers of this country have, sadly and alas, taken a haircut of over $700 million, no one in politics should respond to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e2818616df34180992a58d07fe52215\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I have been overwhelmed by the number of responses supporting my overdue criticism of so-said company and its corporate culture. Many of the farmers have said to me that at long last we\u2019ve got someone who will speak truth to corporate power and who will show that that particular corporate emperor definitely has no clothes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfbdf5865f1940e59ec328a7f147b54b\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: When he accused the leadership of Fonterra of being full of their own importance, did he look into his own heart and acknowledge his own failings in that area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ed39c9be13243ada0d17dfbd3bfad69\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I think the whole House knows that I am a very hearty politician, and any suggestion that those comments directed at that particular board do not enjoy support amongst the hoi polloi of the provincial community shows how out of contact that particular member is. And look, Fonterra cannot wander around making advertisements, such as they did this year, drawing on the countryside and the personalities of country people and not expect the \u201CChampion of the Country\u201D to hold them accountable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a7dfcd4f5364b93bf108033c588572c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: In other words, is the Minister saying that someone from the provinces should be defending the farmers of this country and not somebody from Epsom?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022642622b4fb9a4f6289b1c37815eb647b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! It\u2019s not an area for which Mr Jones has responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002204f503064053468bae6a2337605444fc\u0022\u003EEnergy and Resources\u2014Security of Electricity Supply and Renewable Energy Investment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc7141a6427e41d48d09ca8aa0c5d916\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc7141a6427e41d48d09ca8aa0c5d916\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Has she developed comprehensive and tested contingencies to replace gas\u2019s role in New Zealand\u2019s total energy demand, with MBIE having recently downgraded the reserves of the country\u2019s largest gas field, Pohokura, by 27.2 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002228898575681b48aea07ac0409d1dc650\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228898575681b48aea07ac0409d1dc650\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Energy and Resources: The Government has set itself the goal\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271e24a25a927498b952d0af9bb3f4098\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4799effacfb4fbcb684c7e6f848ff07\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry. On behalf of the Minister, the Government has set itself a goal of having 100 percent renewable electricity in a normal hydrological year by 2035, and the Interim Climate Change Committee has been given the task of planning for that transition. Officials across a range of agencies are working at wider energy demand issues. The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2019s latest gas reserve figures also noted that Mangahewa reserves have increased 44.5 percent. The important point to note here is that these figures do fluctuate year to year, and we currently have 10.5 years of reserves remaining, which is broadly in line with the figures published every year for the past decade. Finally, it\u2019s important to point out that the Government has not ended exploration for gas\u201431 exploration permits, covering 100,000 square kilometres, remain active\u2014and we\u2019ve also announced that a block offer for further onshore acreage in Taranaki is proceeding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229de83ec6ae5a4e39af8309eb974c4dd3\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Considering that those gas reserves are the lowest they have been in 15 years, what is her plan for security of electricity supply for retail customers and commercial users as domestic gas supply does run out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296a69cf30cb443cd8dfe441bfc10eb35\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve been very clear in my original answer\u2014in my primary answer\u2014that we still have 10.5 years of reserves remaining, which is broadly in line with the figures published every year for the past decade. That situation was not changed from the day before the Government made the announcement to the day after.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e572679ac3b4523bf8c1704d187f38e\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Considering the Minister has created a potential end date for exploration, knowing that there\u2019s no new offshore permits and it\u2019s going to be reviewed for onshore in three years\u2019 time, can she be more specific, please, about what her plan for security of electricity supply will be for those users of domestic gas when that supply does run out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7e558e57ba044a8b7f648031bbf86dd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the assertion in the first part of the member\u2019s question. The Government has a clear plan to ensure that we have a diversified electricity supply network. Just over 82 percent of our electricity currently comes from renewable sources, and, of course, we want to do better than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298c82db3a86246ddbbbed066be04c4ea\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Will she guarantee that during her Government\u2019s transition to 100 percent renewable electricity, New Zealand will at no time burn more coal than it presently does to ensure security of electricity supply?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203735607de654413933cd41570491329\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: No Government can give that guarantee, because we can\u2019t control how much it rains.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022040f06edee9f4c30b55d741abbecb968\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Will wind play a significant role in the transition to 100 percent renewable energy; and, if so, how much more investment will be required, given that this past Sunday evening, the country\u2019s 17 wind farms contributed only 1/100th of 1 percent of New Zealand\u2019s electricity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adee999487074cf0b173130a5533eb81\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, wind will continue to play an important role in the future security of New Zealand\u2019s electricity supply, as will geothermal, as will hydro, as will a number of other potential sources\u2014solar is another one. More distributed generation is another potential source to secure greater security of supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227db27a4bb2e64c96af10a26c2d4fbbb4\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the question how much more investment would be required, and if the Minister could elaborate on that, that would be appreciated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222468c4ccde4640508527c4b993682aa3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The first part of the member\u2019s question asked whether or not wind would continue to be a part of the security of supply, and I said yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002224c727523e574cab827f57633e8d8e06\u0022\u003EDrugs, Illegal\u2014Methamphetamine Smuggling\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00223824b69f0dc346889b4a803079bd280e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223824b69f0dc346889b4a803079bd280e\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Customs: What initiatives has the Government taken to curb the smuggling of methamphetamines into New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u00225e370c3f87524401a1c48fe1b0fcc4b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e370c3f87524401a1c48fe1b0fcc4b4\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E This coalition Government is committed to stopping meth and other illegal drugs from coming across our borders. In Budget 2018, I secured an additional $58.1 million to help protect our borders, which includes an extra 127 customs staff over the next few years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022769b02f997cd4c6eb04db433fae902d1\u0022\u003ERino Tirikatene\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government spending so much money on stopping the smuggling of meth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a76c97e4151492685a3f31a1ca2b626\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: The damage to our communities and our wh\u0101nau is immense. The use of illicit drugs costs us $1.8 billion in social harm every single year. It impacts on our employment and our productivity, and weakens the fabric of our society across all our regions. The extra $58.1 million will go a long way to addressing this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022101e5686930640b3a72a33baa68b5733\u0022\u003ERino Tirikatene\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister taking a cross-agency approach to preventing the importation of meth into New Zealand; and, if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022484f89852bc942a4994f486441174e67\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, absolutely. We will continue building on the success of our joint work with police, immigration, and other agencies across Government and overseas by enhancing outreach campaigns, sharing intelligence, and increasing community engagement. Why? Because it\u2019s the smart thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b6d9b03f825406cbec6d3177044c65e\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Conflicts of Interest and National Oracle Solution Programme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00228c6ce166ea474766a4473680f1279dd0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c6ce166ea474766a4473680f1279dd0\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by all his decisions and actions regarding the National Oracle Solution (NOS) programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaf1ad5db7e049938a788281a5179e42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaf1ad5db7e049938a788281a5179e42\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in their context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242bcefe51cc443a98f8c63bf75890b5f\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the ministry proceed with commissioning Deloitte as independent reviewers, when Official Information Act (OIA) documents show the first words of Deloitte\u2019s own conflict of interest declaration state \u201CDeloitte has been involved in the National Oracle Solution\u201D, meaning they will be reviewing their own work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deba02f1bd234bb3a58b35f83b7eb9f3\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t speak for why the ministry made that decision. The procurement process originally was done under the Government procurement rules that that Government set up, and the conflicts, perceived or real, were declared in that piece of work, as the member knows\u2014the member\u2019s got the OIA release now. The ministry did, though, subsequently commission Audit New Zealand to undertake an assurance process on the process followed by the ministry in its engagement of a consultant to review the National Oracle Solution programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022716ec358747c49aab0800c043d511f9e\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the ministry proceed with commissioning Deloitte as independent reviewers, when OIA documents now show Deloitte and Deloitte-related entities provided 28 consultation services to the project from 2011 to 2017?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022188ad6977a16409baae240360eb12ace\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The project didn\u2019t exist in 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ba09930f4e34c5eb649633a4ff3eef9\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: When was the Minister made aware that Deloitte or Deloitte-related entities have been \u201Cmaterially involved\u201D in the majority of their services provided to the project since 2013, and what steps did he take?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8f8bef5faef42beb17385a9d3451658\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t been advised of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022257f6b0a843840fa9a26ac36290b5256\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister deny reviewer Thorsten Engel\u2019s 2011 conflict of interest in oral question No.\u00A09 yesterday, when it is now clear that Deloitte were providing significant services to the project in 2011?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e018d1fcf364e1a9073270b267d68ef\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The project didn\u2019t exist in 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cd4e120c0224f39818ed90a6db814e2\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table Deloitte\u2019s conflict of interest declaration for the independent NOS review and Deloitte\u2019s additional conflict of information statement for the independent review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022175bd64a52e34aed872433c0e9589096\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that? There appears to be none. They can be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223191463b75dd474fb15e3cbefe5c87c4\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a 4 April 2017 email from Deloitte confirming that they have been materially involved in the project. It comes to me as an OIA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0f297f424a64c2288abcdeac910c7d5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that document being tabled? There is an objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c27558eded04aa28aeddeb3fad6a38c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table all of the OIA correspondence received by Mr Reti to provide the full context for all of those things and to provide a clear view of the history of this issue. There\u2019s one from 23 May\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ff8d5eb1fda4c6eac95cafbb82781a8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014is there any objection to those documents being tabled? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223de95b2544c34a78a7701d20f7a94f27\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220cf754cecbb849ed9b550ee137c91607\u0022\u003EWaikeria Prison\u2014Government Announcement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229b8fedac8f264045822e7ca45e3ccafc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b8fedac8f264045822e7ca45e3ccafc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from the Hon Paula Bennett seeking to debate under Standing Order 389 the announcement of the Government\u2019s plan to build a new prison at Waikeria. This is a particular case of recent occurrence and it does involve ministerial responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EUrgent debates are held on matters that require the immediate attention of the House. It is incumbent on the applicant to make out a case for an urgent debate, including reasons why the matter must be debated immediately. It is not for the Speaker to discover one\u2014Speakers\u2019 ruling 190/3 refers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EOn the information presented to me, I am not persuaded that the matter requires the urgent attention of the House. It could be addressed in the upcoming Estimates debate. The application is therefore declined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226737fb78475a426fa7d8536af7ba3ec2\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2017/18 Supplementary Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022603babc6c5294e7a998736d9c1b18ae8\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff20ea94f8da4645833226df84877bae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff20ea94f8da4645833226df84877bae\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Appropriation (2017/18 Supplementary Estimates) Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226a66d92f5ad347408bce47777aa584a8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2017/18 Supplementary Estimates) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222039a1571dbd4514bb381dc29889c9cf\u0022\u003ESubordinate Legislation Confirmation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022900f156a55484c4a840b5d6fc6605c52\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e88a9f18bf5840d69b7788a6d41445ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e88a9f18bf5840d69b7788a6d41445ca\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Subordinate Legislation Confirmation Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223fc56a22aa864bc4a2836333cbdb6b4a\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022801bd7667f224751bb20887ac0c3e3bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022801bd7667f224751bb20887ac0c3e3bb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Subordinate Legislation Confirmation Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESubordinate Legislation Confirmation Bills are passed by the House each year so as to validate confirmable instruments\u2014the category of secondary legislation that requires annual approval by the House to remain in force. These bills are typically pretty uncontroversial, and they\u2019re reflected in the fact that the Standing Orders only provide for their second readings to be debated, although they do normally have a select committee hearing in the intervening period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to confirm the Civil Aviation (Safety) Levies Amendment Order 2017, confirmation of which should have been included in the Subordinate Legislation Confirmation Bill (No 3), which was introduced in May 2017 and reported to the House by the Regulations Review Committee just before the election. The order will be revoked on 30 June unless it is confirmed by an Act of Parliament before then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe Civil Aviation (Safety) Levies Amendment Order 2017 changed the basis on which levies are recovered from the aviation industry to pay for the functions of the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA). It implemented the outcome of the funding review, and focused on recovering the CAA\u2019s funding more appropriately from the people who benefit from their services and those whose actions give rise to it. The revocation of the order would create considerable administrative difficulties for the Civil Aviation Authority, given that systems and processes have been set up for the new scheme, and would create significant confusion for operators in the aviation industry, which is why I have agreed to set aside House time for the bill to be passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229a5c033820114cf7885dd22a49d437f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a5c033820114cf7885dd22a49d437f0\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I think the Leader of the House has well outlined the purpose of having a bill like this. It contains a number of other things that are sort of interesting but not quite so pressing as the aviation fee structure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s worth noting that a lot of that fee structure is not just about commercial aircraft that cart people from one end of the country to the other, or from our shores to other destinations; it\u2019s also about all of the categories of aviation\u2014adventure tourism, various commercial activities like top-dressing or aerial photography, or whatever it might be. Of course, we know\u2014as I mentioned with adventure tourism\u2014there are a range of things that people now engage in because of their desire to have the adrenaline rush, I suppose, that require aircraft to be involved. So the main reason for the confirmation is it should have been included earlier\u2014that\u2019s acknowledged\u2014but it would be unfortunate if we went through a stage where there was no oversight of some of that activity, which, of course, is very visible because of the requirement that they pay their fees and, therefore, come under the purview of the Civil Aviation Authority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBills like this don\u2019t come before the House very frequently, and I think it\u2019s important to recognise that when they do, there is generally a large amount of goodwill expressed from both sides of the House, generally. There are moments, of course, when that looks like it\u2019s waning, but I think we can all get over that and move forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe bill, of course, in this case has got that, you would say, catch-up position in it, but one that I think is necessary. I wouldn\u2019t want anyone to think that there hadn\u2019t been appropriate scrutiny of that. It\u2019s interesting, actually, that the levies have been subject to a complaint that\u2019s been brought to the Regulations Review Committee, and that the committee has considered a lot of that and will be shortly engaging with those people who brought along that concern, about where to progress from here. But what was interesting in that was the recognition by all of those people that these regimes are necessary, although no one likes to think that there is unreasonable impost being put into the economy by way of these sorts of fees. I think most of those who are operators recognise that there is surety in their organisation or in their activity when it comes to public scrutiny of that activity, which can be encapsulated in their being able to point to a particular authority that sits on the wall of the office, or wherever they might like to keep it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo this legislation, the Subordinate Legislation Confirmation Bill, is one that we do support on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022452323c6f6c14a54a386a22e670ac740\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002274df79cf132d4676b57570195a6be552\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274df79cf132d4676b57570195a6be552\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Subordinate Legislation Confirmation Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002243d60887b66f493a87bc0f561453edf9\u0022\u003EDebate on International Treaties\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb012a81ddfb4b06a1d74f7a91361a0a\u0022\u003EDebate on International Treaties\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u002271a5e924d28b4f30965cdc2febf20f57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271a5e924d28b4f30965cdc2febf20f57\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor (Chairperson of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of the report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the International treaty examination of the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for the Trans-Pacific Partnership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThis is not the first time as chair of the committee that I\u2019ve stood to speak on this somewhat revised version of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), nor is it the first time to speak on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u2019s work around various treaties. Look, overall, I am pleased that we are seeing some progression of the TPP and I\u2019ll talk to it a little bit in terms of how, effectively, there isn\u2019t much change. But I think it goes without saying, particularly as a member of the National Party, that we are pleased to see this free-trade agreement proceeding. So I do acknowledge the Minister who is leading it at the moment, and for his efforts, but, importantly too, the efforts of many trade Ministers prior to that, and I\u2019m sure we\u2019re going to be hearing from the likes of Todd McClay and also other foreign Ministers like Gerry Brownlee later in this discussion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe committee has been undertaking a treaty examination. It\u2019s fairly important to understand\u2014probably more for the interest of the public than the House\u2014that a treaty examination is not a moment where the select committee outlines massive changes. So you\u2019ll notice that the recommendations of the committee are really for the House to take note, and note that the Government also is intending to bring in some domestic legislation to bring this about. It\u2019s something that\u2014and those sitting on the select committee know, because we had to explain it many times to the public: we examine the treaty. Obviously, the committee itself can raise matters of concern, but the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee understands that the negotiations have already been done and it\u2019s in the prerogative of the executive to ultimately sign these agreements. But it is important that our select committees, such as the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, look at a treaty like this, have a fuller understanding of the national interest assessment, have a good talk to the ministry involved\u2014in this case, of course, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade\u2014and then engage with the public and report back what they\u2019ve heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EObviously, if this agreement continues\u2014and in this particular case it\u2019s up to the Government and the Minister responsible to table a piece of legislation, to take what is an international trade treaty and bring it into New Zealand\u2019s domestic law. So it\u2019s called the Comprehensive and Progressive TPP. Speaking more personally as the chair, I have, well, serious concerns about those two words, or rather the addition of them. I haven\u2019t really seen much evidence of it being any more comprehensive or progressive. I suppose if I had to be completely generous it is progressive in so far as it is moving forward, but it\u2019s moving forward in the same guise that it was. I say that mainly to echo just about every person who came before our select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo we had a number of people write in, nowhere near as many people writing in as when this side was in Government. That itself raised a number of queries. One can theorise about why there may be a fundamental difference\u2014in this case, so few people writing in. But to those who did, my thanks, and to those who came to speak before the committee here in Wellington, and the committee also made time to go to Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, the fundamental message we got back from business\u2014so think of those in the areas of, say, agriculture, for example, but right across the spectrum. Business was incredibly supportive of this agreement. They explained the reasons why from what they see of the anticipation of the growth in their industries\u2014jobs, of course. Better jobs\u2014that was importantly stressed. So New Zealand businesses are very much behind this. They themselves did note, though, that very little had changed. And the individuals that came before the committee as well, and very notable opponents of the bill, the likes of Professor Jane Kelsey, amongst others, not to take away from those other people who spoke\u2014but almost to the person, people noted that nothing really has changed here. I\u2019m sure there\u2019ll be remonstrations from other speakers that it has been a comprehensive and progressive change. Again, there\u2019s no evidence of that. In fact, those who have long supported the TPP continue their support and say, effectively, it is what it is. Those who are opposed have continued to oppose this bill on the basis that nothing has changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EA number did raise why a particular political party that had championed\u2014or champed at the bit\u2014to not vote for the TPP are now voting for it. There was a lot of confusion, if you will\u2014it\u2019s probably the generous way to put it\u2014from the public of why, in this case New Zealand First, and I\u2019m sure there\u2019ll be a contribution, had very vociferously spoken against the bill, saying they would\u2014sorry, not the bill; the agreement, the international treaty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227874964a6aab4e71bd98eed51448e49f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Just like Donald Trump.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c14925e15c974309a1127cccbdcd3216\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: They are going to\u2014well, it\u2019s interesting that a member cries out \u201CJust like Donald Trump.\u201D. Actually, yes, it\u2019s been very interesting that the number of parties now in Government have been well-aligned to Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump\u2019s position of being anti-trade\u2014talking a very big game until they got the Treasury benches, and then all of a sudden had an about-face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223610e520c3ec4b8f8ddfc13a82341b33\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Because we fixed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fc13cd798b74974958cf912526ad973\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m now hearing, too\u2014I\u2019m not sure where, but I\u2019m hearing words about \u201Cfixing it\u201D. As I\u2019ve laboured the point\u2014all puns intended\u2014those presenting to the select committee had noted there are no effective changes in this agreement, and I for one am quite relaxed for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7e942f115c24305a86b369ccb8849ff\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Twenty-two massive changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220caeba1ed1f344a4b67500774a72ec6d\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: There are, they say, 22 items which are, effectively, nonconsequential. It\u2019s a bit akin\u2014I\u2019d better be clear, Madam Deputy Speaker; I\u2019m not saying this is literally what\u2019s happened. But, simply, if by analogy, removing a comma and a full stop makes a change, then you could begin to add that up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EOne of the ones that\u2019s often mentioned is around the investor-State dispute settlement (ISDS)\u2014that\u2019s the dispute settlements scheme. I think it\u2019s one of those cases where acronyms sort of freak people out. In effect, very little change there. There\u2019s a lot of talk about side letters. Smarter people than me in the area of foreign affairs and trade\u2014the likes of Gerry Brownlee and Todd McClay\u2014I\u2019m sure will talk to that. There has been a little bit of change around the copyright provisions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022048ad442f7ed4a7ba5c3674d4d1a8d01\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just remind the member he is reporting from the select committee as a select committee chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e232a95f122463c9b834679d4958a78\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed. Fortunately, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am reading here from the report. The report itself also indicates a change between 50 to 70 years\u2014a point of discussion, and one I suspect is going to be ongoing\u2014and then a reaffirmation, which is one of the changes, again. It led the committee to be somewhat confused, but a reaffirmation that the purchasing model of Pharmac will continue to be protected. So one of the changes is to continue an element that\u2019s already there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo this was being brought home often and clearly by submitters, and it was actually well appreciated. Importantly now, with the committee having reported back, this debate will occur. I am hoping it will be quite comprehensive, unlike the agreement. But it will be quite comprehensive, and that then will lead to a moment\u2014and I\u2019m sure the Minister will elucidate more on that when a bill will be put before the Parliament, and that will be debated. It will be important to note that the committee will, once again I suspect, have to go out and engage the public, probably in a shortened process. I don\u2019t want to presume that; it\u2019s not my role\u2014but a somewhat shortened process. I certainly encourage those people who wish to have their voice heard again that they may do so. But I think, as I was noting at the start, the committee is very clear on this: it is in the prerogative of Government or the executive to pass these. But the committee was very pleased to go through the process, to engage and hear from people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAs I say, the public itself, and the committee I think as a whole\u2014not representative of all parties; sadly, that\u2019s just the nature of who can get on the committee\u2014remain very supportive of free trade. We were, as a committee, interested in how we may further engage with America. I mean, it\u2019s one of the elements we\u2019re very aware of\u2014that America is not part of this deal. We\u2019ll be very interested to see whether they can come on board. There was a mixture of opinion, as the Minister I\u2019m sure knows, of whether America would be interested or not, but of course it\u2019s up to them to make those decisions. What we\u2019re seeing at the moment, with some of the tensions around the North America Free Trade Agreement\u2014so that in North America, it will be interesting to see whether that flows over as well into the engagement with the revised TPP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ENew Zealand remains, as we understand it, keen to be at the forefront of this. I think\u2014and I hope it\u2019s not pre-empting another person\u2019s speech\u2014New Zealand is keen to be the first, or at least one of the first to bring this treaty into its domestic laws. Importantly, New Zealand is what they call the depository. We are the central nexus for all the others to inform us when they have signed it. When I think it\u2019s at least six people have signed\u2014or six countries, rather, not six people. When six countries have signed, the bill and the treaty begin to take effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo that was a very quick summation of what was an incredibly large treaty, but I think that the major take-out from the committee was continued opposition in some circles, great support, but a feeling that, really, the treaty has remained as it is, and at which point I commend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc9132860bd647e9b5967b60c63a98fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc9132860bd647e9b5967b60c63a98fb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for Trade and Export Growth):\u003C/span\u003E Can I begin by thanking the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for their efforts. They received 427 written submissions and heard from 69 submitters. There\u2019s a lot of work in that, and I thank them for doing that work. The national interest analysis which was being considered by the committee runs to over 240 pages long. It\u2019s annexed to the report back from the select committee, and it\u2019s a very thorough analysis of the costs and benefits of the agreement to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECan I just deal with the assertion that is made by the member who\u2019s just resumed his seat, Simon O\u2019Connor, that there\u2019s nothing different, in effect, between where we sit now and where we sat under the original Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement. National still does not understand that the reason that support for trade eroded under their watch was, (1), that they refused to properly engage with the people, and, (2), that they were selling New Zealanders down the land in respect of their ability to control who owns New Zealand homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIf the TPP had proceeded as had been legislated by the last Government, against the opposition from other parties including Labour\u2014because these land issues and some other issues had not been resolved\u2014and had come into effect, New Zealand by now would have lost for ever, in practice, the right to control foreign buyers of New Zealand homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022205a6e4fc8e04da181fda4fa7a82199b\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: What a load of bollocks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd3fff33cb1d4beeb3599716c03f0376\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, Gerry Brownlee says, \u201CWhat a load of rubbish.\u201D The Hon Gerry Brownlee is absolutely wrong\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dcaaa331d374ceba5b38060b450fcea\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3e348e30a074a60b2e3a20be4f01ec2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, you\u2019re not, I say to the Hon Gerry Brownlee. You\u2019re absolutely wrong, because the provisions of the TPP agreement, as he signed, prevented New Zealand, after that agreement came into effect, adding any new class of investment to be screened in our overseas investment screening regime. It would have prevented New Zealand from doing it in respect of the TPP, and the effect of that would have flowed through to earlier trade agreements, including with China. So of course New Zealanders were railing against the fact that National was selling out their interests, preventing future Governments acting in the interests of New Zealand to ban foreign buyers if they wanted. I would hope, as we slowly return to this bipartisan approach that we\u2019ve largely had across the two main parties in Parliament on trade, that National reflects upon the fact that even if they might not want to do something, the policy space should be preserved to protect the sovereignty of a future Parliament of a different viewpoint being able to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, we did find a solution to this. In advance of the election, voters were told by the Hon Todd McClay that we had to choose between breaching our free-trade agreements\u2014lots of them, we were told\u2014and banning foreign buyers; that we couldn\u2019t do both. Well, they were scaremongering\u2014scaremongering. They also said we could have imposed a stamp duty if we wanted. They were wrong on both counts. We could not impose a stamp duty targeted on foreign buyers without breaching our free-trade agreements\u2014earlier free-trade agreements\u2014but we could ban foreign buyers of residential homes, with a complication relating to one trade agreement, which is with Singapore, and they\u2019re small buyers in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022300cf4a19d044e46865b68f5177d2d63\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Ooh! Ooh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4109b8056f24059aabfc4f106755d9b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u201COoh!\u201D, says Gerry Brownlee. \u201COoh!\u201D, says Gerry. That\u2019s a more intelligent contribution than his first one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe other thing I\u2019m sure that we\u2019ll hear from subsequent speakers\u2014they love to stand up\u2014is that the Labour Party people used to go along to these rallies and they would be there with the people protesting against some of the provisions in the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement. And it\u2019s true. I did. I went to one. Do you know what I did? I outlined the five bottom lines of the Labour Party. They were to make sure we had Treaty protection, that we protected the Pharmac model, that we had decent gains for our exporters in terms of market access, that we protected the right to regulate\u2014and within that came up these investor-State dispute settlement clauses, which I\u2019ll come back to\u2014and, finally, that we would protect the right of New Zealand to control who owns our land. Some people, they\u2019d ask me, \u201COh, look, if those five bottom lines are met, will you sign up?\u201D And I said yes, and quite a few of the crowd said, \u201CFair enough.\u201D Some of the other crowd said, \u201CBoo.\u201D\u2014that\u2019s their right. But to present us as being hypocritical is just incorrect. We set out our five bottom lines before the election, and we met four and a half.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8914b5b19b64582ac8584d55e776239\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Rewriting history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd46ab818ad740ae86564aa12d33f058\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Rewriting history? We actually have rewritten history. We got to an agreement which gives us most of the trade benefits\u2014obviously, the US isn\u2019t in it\u2014on terms that also have enabled us to do better in respect of other issues and protect New Zealanders from the influence of those wealthy overseas people: 1 percenters from overseas coming and outbidding New Zealanders for our homes. Now, the other side, they say, \u201COh, it\u2019s not happening.\u201D What happened last week? We had some more data on it and it showed that 20 percent or 18 percent of central Auckland homes were sold to foreign buyers in the last quarter, excluding homes purchased through corporate vehicles\u201418 percent; a fifth. It\u2019s a lot. In Queenstown: 10 percent across the Wakatipu\u2014one in 10. One in ten houses, and these are the most expensive\u2014expensive housing markets\u2014excuse me, Madam Deputy Speaker, I\u2019ve got a tickle in my tonsil.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d8f6a0ebe6446358b504b3de05d493f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s choking on ill facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e754b2ac243042259fc28e9a8393a8ff\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Freudian cough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227395a652cbdd4bada959e9a1686922ef\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I picked up some lurgy when I was in Japan, where we\u2019ve just referred to, but I\u2019ll come back to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe have now proof. National only used to release the national average. We could never get to regional data. Now, I\u2019ve got no doubt that in earlier times, when capital controls out of China were freer, the percentage of sales into Auckland was even higher than the current one in five that we\u2019re seeing in central Auckland. And, indeed, there\u2019s been magazine articles in North \u0026amp; South and the like to prove that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EHaving said that, it\u2019s also proved true that the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership is more important than it was a couple of years ago. We have rising protectionism around the world. We have attacks on the World Trade Organization, which is the international rule of law relating to trade. And we have the appellant body, which is, effectively, the enforcement body for the World Trade Organization (WTO) rules, which stops functioning in about a year if the United States continues to block new appointees to it. They won\u2019t specify with any particularity their concerns. Therefore, the rest of the world can\u2019t address those concerns, despite a willingness to do so, and it may well be that this is a disruptive attempt to stop the appellate body functioning. In that case, small countries like New Zealand are more reliant on these plurilateral agreements than they would have been had the WTO still been working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EOne of the other points I would make is that, in terms of the balance between who prospers under this, there\u2019s an analysis of the economic effects of this that shows that this agreement is actually better for people who work for a living\u2014earn wages and salary\u2014than it is for capital. The gain that\u2019s predicted in respect of this agreement has a greater gain to labour than capital. It\u2019s unusual, but it actually relates to the better access that we\u2019re getting in Japan for a lot of our agricultural products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECan I pay some credit to the Hon Todd McClay, because although I criticised the prior National Government\u2019s disengagement with the public, it is true that he began that re-engagement process that had been let go by prior Ministers of trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EBut we\u2019ve continued with that, and we\u2019ve been dealing with all of our critics, we\u2019ve been providing far more information, and we\u2019ve been prepared in writing to show the provisions in the agreement that protect the interests that they\u2019re worried about. We\u2019ve done a number of iterations of that. This is available on the web. It\u2019s been presented at meetings up and down the country. As a consequence of being open, more people trust us. We\u2019ve actually rebuilt trust in government. That is a very good thing to do, given the importance of trade and the fact that this rising anti-trade rhetoric around the world is dangerous. We have to separate it from the effects of digitalisation of economies disrupting jobs and from the effects of 1 percenters that are buying land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI think that this agreement is a good one and that New Zealand will be more prosperous as a consequence, and I\u2019m sure that my colleague the Rt Hon Winston Peters will detail some of the very important changes that we managed to secure to the agreement before we signed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00227edf6383918f4f16a418718cc8d1e3d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227edf6383918f4f16a418718cc8d1e3d9\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. May I start by thanking the Hon David Parker for his praise of me. Now, I\u2019m going to move quickly on to say that the only thing longer and more boring than that speech is the renamed, revised Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) when you put \u201CComprehensive and Progressive\u201D in front of it, because, largely, the only real difference between the original TPP and this revised agreement is, number one, the US is not there, and, number two, two parties opposite are now supporting it because they are in Government. We need to be very clear, and their supporters need to be very clear, and the very people that Mr Peters and Mr Parker, and their colleagues, protested with against the original deal on many, many occasions need to be very clear\u2014Mr Parker\u2019s list of one to five priorities; what he forgot to tell them was number six: \u201CBut if we\u2019re in Government, of course we are going to support it, and we will end up supporting it, no matter what.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ENow, the largest issue that Mr Parker had, he said, was around this Parliament\u2019s ability to pass regulation, and we can\u2019t be sued by these very, very bad multinationals from all around the world. He\u2019s come up with a novel solution. It wasn\u2019t to get rid of it, as he said that he would, from the revised agreement; it was to sign side letters with a number of countries. You may remember the Minister and the new Prime Minister in Vietnam making a very bold claim that they had fixed the investor-State dispute settlement (ISDS) so that 80 percent of foreign direct investment into New Zealand was no longer covered and the Government couldn\u2019t be sued because of a side letter with Australia. What they wouldn\u2019t tell you until pressed was that, actually, it was exactly the same side letter with exactly the same words, but just a different date on it, as what had been signed originally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESo when we look at the original TPP, Labour and New Zealand First and the Greens strongly opposed it\u2014in fact, voted against it in this House\u2014because foreign companies could sue us, sue the New Zealand Government, and take away their democratic right. When they marched up and down in New Zealand, they joined them in Queen Street against that. Actually, what they\u2019ve said is they\u2019ve fixed it with a side letter that was also there originally, so nothing changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut I will give Mr Parker credit. He did get our officials to go and talk to every single other country that was a member of TPP and say to them, \u201CWe want to sign a side letter with you, as well, to exempt New Zealand from the ability to be sued.\u201D, and he was successful. He got five other countries to join them. What he didn\u2019t tell you was that\u2019s about 0.2 percent of 1 percent of all foreign direct investment in New Zealand. So you\u2019ve been able to find the countries whose companies invest the least in New Zealand\u2014the very least in New Zealand\u2014and get them to sign that letter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWhat he\u2019s also then gone on and said is, actually, Canada\u2014who are a very big investor here\u2014have also signed a letter of good intention that says, \u201COne day we should do something together.\u201D But I ask a question of Mr Parker: can Canadian companies sue the New Zealand Government under the ISDS? We don\u2019t need to wait for his answer, because it won\u2019t come, but the answer to that is yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESo what about Mexico? Can Mexican companies who invest here sue us? And the list is very, very long. What about Singapore? Did they sign one of those letters? Well, they didn\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ENow, what Mr Parker also said was, actually, there are some challenges around, supposedly, some foreigners that are coming in here and buying houses that he probably wanted to buy, and he said that, actually, he was misled before the election. Well, that\u2019s not correct, and the reason it\u2019s not correct is if he has a look at the bill before the Parliament, it is not a ban. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWhat the bill before Parliament says is that there are more criteria under the Overseas Investment Act about who can buy what, and every single house in New Zealand is now a sensitive asset. So what he\u2019s done is he\u2019s taken a sledgehammer to a problem that he\u2019s blown to the size that he\u2019s said it needs a sledgehammer, but, actually, every single house in New Zealand is now a sensitive asset. That means that for every single house sale where a foreigner\u2014one of these bad, bad people that Mr Parker has protested against\u2014wants to buy a house in New Zealand, it actually comes down to a ministerial decision as to whether that will happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESo, again, a question for him: if somebody from Singapore wants to buy a house in Queenstown\u2014let\u2019s say they want to buy a $10 million house in Queenstown, because I assume there\u2019s a lot of the people that he was protesting with lined up in Queenstown to buy that $10 million house\u2014can they still do it? The answer to that is\u2014we don\u2019t need to wait\u2014yes, they can enter into a purchase agreement. They can go and put in an application to the Overseas Investment Office, and it will go through a process. It will then come to the Minister, and the Minister will have to say yes or no to that. Now I assume what he\u2019s saying is a Minister\u2019s going to say no every single time. But that\u2019s not a ban; that\u2019s more bureaucracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e661a3314b204cdd9804d8ffadd3445f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Like the water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245c96394ad434103ae02ca41b0567c38\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s more process. It\u2019s a little bit like the promise that we heard before the election, certainly, from Mr Peters\u2014and Labour were at the front of it and, certainly, the Green Party\u2014that there would be a moratorium, there would be a tax, and there would be restriction. No foreign enterprises or interests would buy water rights in New Zealand any more. I\u2019ve got to say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb6ab6bfe2fa419b8cffc728b135f1f2\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Yep, that\u2019s what we\u2019ve done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c7f201accfa4552b8cd2ef31ca000e7\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we hear Ruth Dyson say they\u2019ve done it. Well, actually, not this week, you haven\u2019t, Ms Dyson. You want to put that bottle down\u2014of water. I\u2019m coming to a point. You want to put that bottle down, of water, and the reason for that is that what we\u2019ve seen is another broken promise but also a fudging of statistics and a way forward, because we\u2019ve seen in the Bay of Plenty the Green Party Minister sign off, with a Labour Minister, an Overseas Investment Office request about water. [Deputy Speaker gestures] Well, actually, it has the same thing, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is within scope, because what they\u2019re saying here is they\u2019ve banned something over foreigners being able to purchase property here, but it\u2019s not a ban. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe reason it\u2019s not a ban is that it\u2019s just more process. Just as they said they were going to ban foreigners from buying water interests in New Zealand to bottle water and send it overseas\u2014and, along the way, put a levy or a tax on them\u2014they\u2019ve failed in that this week, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022129d66cb6ed84c04b32e9eb28cebce50\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What would you have done?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a5675cb29f8483f935adccfb450de89\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: What I would have done is what we promised that we would do, and that\u2019s not what the Green Party have done. That\u2019s why they\u2019re ripping themselves apart at the moment. So, actually, what the parties in Government are going to find is it\u2019s very easy in Opposition to say one thing and very difficult\u2014very difficult\u2014to deliver in practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ENow, I want to say, finally, to Mr Parker: of his list of five things, actually, virtually all of those, bar this little fudge he\u2019s talking about at the end, are identical to what happened in the original TPP, because the market access for the remaining countries has not changed\u2014nothing at all. The labour protection hasn\u2019t changed at all. The environment chapter hasn\u2019t changed, although, on the side, there is a little bit around fisheries, which is work that New Zealand started in the World Trade Organization with others and had under way for a number of years. It\u2019s good that it\u2019s in there, but it is not material to New Zealand. It makes no difference at all. If he\u2019s hanging his hat on supporting this agreement because it has the highest environment standards in the world, as his Prime Minister said, of any agreement, it\u2019s what was negotiated originally when David Parker, Winston Peters, and Jacinda Ardern voted against that original agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI started by saying\u2014and I repeat it\u2014the only substantive change is that they are now enlightened. They want to be a comprehensive and progressive Government. If they weren\u2019t in Government, they wouldn\u2019t be voting for this; they would be voting against it. They would fight any reason. I think that New Zealanders understand that, and the New Zealand business community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EMr Parker spoke a lot about how, actually, there wasn\u2019t a consensus for trade and New Zealanders were very unhappy about it. Well, that\u2019s because he kept protesting against it all of the time with all of his colleagues. You know, trade spokesman after trade spokesman on that side of the House were against it. So, largely, what you have is all but one party in Parliament now supporting a deal that was very good when it was the original deal; it remains a very good deal as the revised deal, and the change in attitude of New Zealanders is around the complaint from New Zealand First, and the Labour Party has stopped, because all of a sudden they\u2019ve seen the light\u2014they are free traders. Well, I congratulate them for that, but, as with many things that we are seeing, there are others outside of this House who voted for them, supported them, that see that as hypocrisy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ENow, he says, actually, there are some people that are unhappy with him, and it\u2019s the work that we did to rark them up. Well, I sat in the committee when the submitters came before us, and the businesses of New Zealand, of course, came and supported it. They, virtually to a word, as his department, his ministry, said, there is virtually no change here at all. Actually, it can go through the House very, very quickly. You\u2019ve already had a vote on it. You know, vote on it again; it\u2019s the same thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut where he hasn\u2019t provided a correct account of what happened with the committee to this House today is that there are many people who are former Labour Party MPs, Labour Party members, supporters, and co-protesters who came, and they said they are disillusioned by what the Government is doing. They believed them when they said they would oppose this deal and that it was bad. They believed them when they said that, actually, it would ruin the Pharmac model, even though there is no change at all in the language he and his Prime Minister are using around Pharmac being protected. It\u2019s identical to what it was before, and if you go and look at the impact assessment that\u2019s been put together by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, they too say it\u2019s the same. It was a good deal before, and it\u2019s a good deal now. We proudly voted for it in the last Parliament; we will this time. I\u2019m sorry that they have to be hypocritical about supporting it too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002239279137b6dc41969d70cb631401e989\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239279137b6dc41969d70cb631401e989\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party used to be great once, but now it\u2019s spelt with a small \u201Cn\u201D, because they are globalists. They believe in supporting their multinational mates. The speaker who just got to his feet, Todd McClay, said that the US was not there. Well, the US wasn\u2019t there at the end of 2016, the moment the Trump campaign won, backed, of course, on this issue by Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. They left because it was, they perceived, a challenge to their sovereignty, in the same way as the Labour Party and New Zealand First believe it was a challenge to ours. And we went out and fixed it up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f85bf6ea82b4d599a8179ec059558a3\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022247f3425a6754ce3abf753446afec124\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: See, this is about\u2014Mr Brownlee, it\u2019s not about standing at the wood lathe trying to learn how to turn wood; it\u2019s about finishing the job. It\u2019s not about being at the bottom of Everest; it\u2019s climbing to the top, and that\u2019s what we\u2019ve done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI want to commend my colleague David Parker for the superb job he did. He went to Da Nang, and from way behind the eight ball\u2014because of the nefarious, deceitful behaviour of the National Party\u2014he managed to rescue us from this dire situation of being in the control of some other economy. We are about free and fair trade, not the kind of multinational humbug and neoliberal \u201Ctwit-twat\u201D stuff that you hear from the party over there\u2014just rubbish. You know, they don\u2019t even know what liberalism is or what \u201Cneo\u201D means, but, somehow, they\u2019ve got together a terrible construction\u2014and Gerry looks like it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c33e3ff6a1e940c487f688811153ba9b\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker, you were signalling to the last speaker that he needed to confine himself to the select committee report. I think that same restraint should apply to the Deputy Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3975e8147ef4ad8b6c5f114d1f8f32a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, I am giving a bit of licence at the beginning of the speech, as I have done with all speakers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f558fa2766eb4be1b098d5212ed3dc19\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: As we came to the campaign, they were running around New Zealand saying, \u201CIf you vote for them, you won\u2019t get a free-trade deal with the rest of the world.\u201D Now, we proved that to be demonstrably, palpably false, and that\u2019s a fact. So when we had the power to do the job\u2014[Interruption] And it\u2019s no use these old, failed MPs over there screaming in their anger at having lost the last election. Look, you lost, and you lost badly, and you didn\u2019t have any leadership, and you\u2019ve got worse now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d69028ad50c046dbabaec30716d49d07\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, don\u2019t bring me into this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ab5c55ff1b54815ae0eca27b98ff252\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, not you, particularly\u2014not you, Madam Deputy Speaker. No, no\u2014I\u2019m talking about those ones over there. Ha, ha! They were so embittered because they haven\u2019t got the cars and limousines anymore, all the baubles of office which they so much love\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215f3b44561ac44deb9fb5cfba65dbac9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re actually\u2014now we\u2019re going to come to the report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d2672471af846adab14fb236aa3a488\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I want to say that\u2019s very, very clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership is a monumental free-trade agreement that spans 11 countries in the Asia-Pacific region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259100174e7ae43dc9970bb6746966d0e\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Read your notes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288fa31eb3de54d4d87d0125d08c06928\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, unlike that member, I\u2019m able to prepare them properly as well. I don\u2019t have them done by research unit. Now, can I just say\u2014[Interruption]\u2014able to write my own notes, able to read them out, and able to comprehend what they say. Now, see, that\u2019s what\u2019s happened. I don\u2019t know whether the public back in New Zealand watching the TV can see what\u2019s going on here, but they are standing here, this embittered party, shouting and screaming, vituperating\u2014rant and tirade every day. And question time today was appalling\u2014it was a disgrace. They need leadership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECan I just say those countries are the destination of 31 percent of New Zealand\u2019s goods exports\u2014that\u2019s $15 billion\u2014and 31 percent of New Zealand\u2019s services exports\u2014that\u2019s $6.8 billion annually. That\u2019s well above $22 million. Can I just say, also, those markets have a combined population of 480 million consumers, and they include four of New Zealand\u2019s top 10 trading partners: Australia, Japan, Singapore, and Malaysia. These are the facts that members need to remember and understand as to why we decided that we could fix this deal and fix it properly. What we did was ensure that 22 fundamental, egregious mistakes made by the previous Government were stopped. For example, we were appalled\u2014I saw Mr Parker in Da Nang, and he was ashen because he\u2019d learnt that they hadn\u2019t even raised the issue of house sales in our country. He couldn\u2019t believe it. They hadn\u2019t even raised the issue of house sales during the negotiations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b203f363d4e244959f26c75a86ee4fc6\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Unbelievable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253e165d0b12f4117bbd0cd0cc85a94f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Unbelievable. Even worse, they told their caucus over there that they weren\u2019t allowed to. This is amazing. Not only trying to deceive the country, they deceived their own mates, their own caucus mates, but, then again, some of them, like the member from Epsom\u2014he\u2019s all for this sort of sell-out, so he\u2019s not really concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe said no to an economy shaped by investor rights; instead, we put New Zealand first. It is abundantly clear that this is not the objective of the National Party, who were determined to place our economy further in the hands of international globalist interests, and, thank heavens, the people, just in time, stopped them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECan I just say that it is comprehensive and progressive because it goes beyond reducing costs for businesses. And, you know, the most amazing thing was we\u2019d hardly got it fixed up when Donald Trump\u2019s team started saying, \u201CWell, maybe we\u2019d like to be back in.\u201D, because the sovereignty issues, so critical to a party with a philosophy like New Zealand First\u2019s and Labour\u2019s, were now being dealt to in a way that the National Party paid no attention to whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIt will support job creation and give us a better standard of living. At the same time, our people will be protected from globalist predation. And that\u2019s what it is\u2014globalist predation. These people, you know, these people offshore, multinationals, weren\u2019t paying any tax at all. For example, some of these offshore multinationals were paying tax of less than one-third of 1 percent. And what did that Government do about it? Absolutely nothing. It refused to raise a finger\u2014not a mutter, not a murmur, not a syllable, not a sound from members like Mr Bennett, who spends all his time with his five farms seeking not to advance the farming industry in this country, never raising a question about the incompetence of Fonterra\u2014no, not a word about them, even though they\u2019ve lost over $1.3 billion. Not a word from Mr Carter, former farming Minister; not a word from Mr Bennett\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd93c2b06c3b44b885c8d9f7841d7f44\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How much have they made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aa12c5ef591447890c57468b660863c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, \u201CHow much have they made?\u201D, he says. They\u2019ve lost $1.3 billion. Fonterra\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245ac9b921ed84a20bb7606484ca3f717\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can we come back to the report, please?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022430c355cb84b4505be7c4aacde9fda17\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this is all about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022179553b65fda49ed9480cb73388acec7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, this isn\u2019t the report; this is not about the report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdf1a46f00004063b394c16afb0466ba\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: This is all about trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df741423f1cd4d0ab0faf3b45b35686a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Keep reading your notes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e1e2df5dbb943ae83afe6ebc31133ba\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, that part\u2019s not part of my notes. I just noticed you there, and that\u2019s why I decided to make very sure that everybody found out how incompetent and culpable that member is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECan I just say that one in every four New Zealanders in work today depends on exports for their livelihoods\u2014one in four. Those workers\u2019 rights are also protected in the agreement. They safeguard hired labour and environmental standards and the Asia-Pacific region. [Interruption] Now, there\u2019s no use those three members there screaming and shouting. I mean, everybody knows they\u2019re illiterate. They can\u2019t even string one word together, or two together, or any coherent sentence. And as for the woodwork teacher\u2014that\u2019s that man over there\u2014he\u2019s the least qualified to raise any issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bbd461d555c4578b40a06fb5bf4838a\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! They hate the workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022846eb11458194f14a6d994ca0afa959c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh\u2014hate the workers! Hates the workers\u2014that man and work are strangers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022359809edd7ba4817879220816551ff84\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wasn\u2019t under the impression that this was a general debate, but it seems to have descended into that, and I wondered if you might be able to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b09121f919804f7a924f58c6eab425ba\u0022\u003EClayton Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dcfacaa13c04bf98ec72aa8c443f1c8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t actually need any help, thank you. I am the judge of the content of the speech. I do agree that the speaker is continually straying from the report, and I ask him to please continue his speech, but will he please focus on what is actually before the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022335c2a90ecdf4a44a620122dd9f00382\u0022\u003EClayton Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d654e2990324ff5ae62e3ee11cf70a4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I hope you\u2019re not going to question my ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf23e4fde5ef4550a42d38d7edb948f0\u0022\u003EClayton Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not questioning your ruling at all, Madam Deputy Speaker. I would just like to bring your attention to the constant barrage, which is over what I would consider, or anybody would consider, a reasonable barrage, which is actually stopping the flow of the debate, which may need to be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e4bf8740f714a63a646f16072e6a783\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve never noticed, I have to say, in all my time in the House that that has actually deterred the speaker who has been on his feet. In fact, I have noticed that that encourages him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a13464c0d40b42d6aea03bbb328fe18d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5b49a81527f49e59c853ebb0b38ee83\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, could you please just talk to what is in front of the House, and let\u2019s get on with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d62a5034bc1a482bab976e451dade45f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Talking about this report, they object simply because of its lexiconic similarity. Now, that means the words they say are the same, but, no, they\u2019re not. There are 22 fundamental things that were in the old agreement that are not in this one. They have been suspended\u201422 undesirable provisions suspended in favour of a comprehensive and progressive outcome. Tariffs will be eliminated on all New Zealand\u2019s exports to Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership economies, with the exception of beef in Japan and a number of dairy products from Japan, Canada, and Mexico, where access is nevertheless improved through partial tariff reductions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECan I just say that this was not the easiest deal to turn around, because of the distance of danger down which path the former\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247151e8eb606453eacc3a3807b3960f2\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Did you set up the North Korea deal as well, mate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1e674d57f174bd5a18b2d208fab8c55\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Government had travelled. But\u2014I beg your pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2f1a174aabe41c0b1b9ce9e772e4c64\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Did you sort out the North Korea situation as well? You told us you would.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240437cb0b66b41fd85008f3a8d9cb936\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, unlike that member, I\u2019ve been invited to North Korea, yes. In fact, there are very few Western politicians that have ever been to North Korea, and the reason why we were engaged is that they perceived, around the world, that maybe, just maybe, we knew what we were talking about\u2014unlike this bunch of pretenders over there who keep on screaming out with no idea where they are taking their country, if they were ever empowered again to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECan I make it very, very clear that the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership will mean our exporters are not disadvantaged in important high-value markets like Japan, compared with competitors such as Australia, Chile, and soon the European Union, all of which have agreed free-trade agreements with Japan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIn my closing ten seconds, I want to make it very clear that New Zealand First believes that we can stand behind this deal, because it puts New Zealanders\u2014as it should have from the very beginning\u2014first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00228c23fd2a693740f69a609c249d66223d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c23fd2a693740f69a609c249d66223d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E What a pleasure to follow that experienced member, Winston Peters, in this House and the view that he\u2019s presented, with which I greatly concur. He has clearly delivered a lecture to the members on that side of the House, reminding them of what their party once stood for, but appeared to have sold out on on so many fronts\u2014on so many fronts\u2014over the years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESadly, one of the key things we know about the prior agreement, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) as it was, was that it was proposed that non-resident foreign buyers could buy out New Zealand\u2019s houses for ever\u2014for ever. That was becoming a major problem in New Zealand. That was evident to New Zealanders up and down the country as they saw and met those people at housing auctions who were from overseas who could outbid them every time. That was clear across New Zealand, but that prior Government was so out of touch\u2014was so out of touch\u2014with where ordinary New Zealanders were, with those New Zealanders who were struggling to afford a home; those New Zealanders who one generation ago would have been able to buy their own home but a generation on were now locked out of the housing market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWhat we discovered, subsequently, of course, is that the previous trade Minister had not even asked for an exemption in the trade agreement\u2014not even asked. He hadn\u2019t even said, \u201CCould we please have a protection so that in future if it becomes a bigger problem for New Zealand, we could place a ban on non-resident foreign speculators operating in this country.\u201D No. It had not occurred to him to even ask for it. And, what is more, even under the old agreement, several countries had secured precisely that provision. So other countries had asked for an exemption so that they in future could ban non-resident foreign buyers and they had secured it. But our former trade Minister and that party sitting opposite had decided that was not within their ken; they would not even ask; they were not concerned about the bipartisan nature of the agreement or the future benefits that might be taken away from New Zealanders by those with deeper pockets from overseas buying up all the houses in New Zealand and locking New Zealanders out of the market so that they would become tenants in their own land\u2014that is clear. Fortunately, though\u2014fortunately\u2014the Government changed. The Government changed and the Minister David Parker and the foreign Minister Winston Peters were able to negotiate 22 suspensions to the text of the original TPP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca71f243bf1640d387a80b54089dc482\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ab12e6acbf64125b575ee25cfb5dee8\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Twenty-two suspensions on issues of concern to New Zealanders. From a very difficult starting point, they were able to negotiate a far better agreement for New Zealanders\u2014an agreement that will see New Zealanders\u2019 protections being retained that would otherwise have been sold down the river by the previous Government. So the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) is a much better agreement for New Zealand than the earlier Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiated by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI want to cover a couple of those things in more detail because I was briefly the trade spokesperson when Labour was in Opposition. What we saw was that the Pharmac model was under threat. The Pharmac model was under threat. There were a number of little provisions in there that would have given those drug companies wanting to negotiate more information so they could have leveraged more profit out and put that Pharmac model under pressure. And they know that across the House. They know that to be true, and yet they will try to defend the previous model as though it somehow was the perfect protection for the Pharmac model. Well, on this side of the House we\u2019re proud that we\u2019ve protected the Pharmac model.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also proud that we have preserved the Government\u2019s inherent right to regulate in the public interest, including for the Treaty of Waitangi. As with all of New Zealand\u2019s contemporary trade agreements, there is a provision in the comprehensive trade agreement that preserves the pre-eminence of the Treaty of Waitangi in New Zealand. Importantly\u2014very importantly\u2014that right to ban non-resident foreign buyers, speculators, from the New Zealand housing market and using the Overseas Investment Act is compliant with the new CPTPP. The previous Government, of course, said banning foreign buyers was impossible, even though Australia and Singapore before them had achieved that and signed the CPTPP. National was wrong, and we\u2019ve proven that with this agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESo that is one of the key things that I think New Zealanders will see. As we are getting reports now that nearly 20 percent of the buyers in the Auckland market are non-resident foreign buyers currently in central Auckland, and as we\u2019ve seen one in 10 of the buyers in the Wakatipu Basin\u2014the two most expensive areas in New Zealand\u2014are non-resident foreign buyers, we can see that this problem is becoming a bigger one. It\u2019s one that\u2019s affecting New Zealanders. I\u2019m told that New Zealanders aged 25 to 40 a generation ago\u2014roughly half of them owned their own home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256f0f02fdb69411bb3362f9fc052c843\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what is it now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fe1a5a3922e4a30a9c4835215451fd5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Just one generation ago\u2014and now that number has halved. That number has halved. So in one generation the homeownership rate amongst that age group\u2014where people are having children, are trying to set up their lives, are needing that stability\u2014has halved, in just one generation. The inequality that would have continued to eventuate if those settings were allowed to continue will be stopped by this Government. This Government is determined\u2014absolutely determined\u2014to protect the interests of New Zealanders, because we do not want to sell the country out. We want to make sure that we benefit from trade as a country, as a whole, not just an elite few, not just the 1 percent. We don\u2019t want to see those people benefit at the expense of ordinary New Zealanders and at the expense of middle New Zealand and those who are harder up. This Government is determined that we share the benefits of trade across our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EUnder the last Government, interestingly, exports as a proportion of the economy dropped from 30 percent down to 27 percent. Exports as a proportion of the economy actually dropped under the previous Government. This Government is determined that we should grow exports, because we believe in a productive economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220752e7b932a94b848baca38e6a829448\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This isn\u2019t a general debate. Could you come to the topic. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b71c3c420634878bdf90c2ea46eeeb9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Deputy Speaker, yes. To come back to the point, the impact\u2014the impact\u2014of this particular agreement will see a whole lot more jobs created, because we know that exports are the mainstay of so many regions across New Zealand. We know even in the towns and cities that exports are incredibly important, but, particularly, in provincial New Zealand. The export sector sustains more than half a million New Zealand jobs, or, to put it another way, one in four New Zealanders today depends on exports for their livelihoods. That is something that we on this side of the House value and want to grow. We want to grow exports. We want to see regions grow. We want to see our economy grow, and that\u2019s what we believe. That\u2019s why the Labour Party has always supported trade agreements. The TPP was the first one that we actually raised resistance to, because we could see it was going down the wrong track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EBut we\u2019ve been able to bring it right, and when Mr Brownlee rises to his feet he\u2019ll acknowledge that this is a different agreement to the previous agreement. He\u2019ll acknowledge that those 22 suspensions in the text in the original TPP do address the concerns of New Zealanders, because he\u2019s a man of courage and intellectual confidence. He will explain to New Zealanders that that is, in fact, true that the areas of investment, intellectual property, and health\u2014which would have otherwise faced restrictions\u2014because of the interventions of the current Government, will lead to a better outcome for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe investor-State dispute settlement provisions have been wound back where it suits the partner countries to do that. The Pharmac purchasing model remains protected where it would have been sold away under the previous Government\u2019s agreement. And we are preserving the Government\u2019s inherent right to regulate in the public interest. This is a Government that is concerned to preserve New Zealanders\u2019 sovereignty and to make sure that we don\u2019t bring distortionary effects into our housing market. We can\u2019t get rich by selling houses to one another. That is not a road to prosperity. It\u2019s not a road to prosperity to get to the point where we can\u2019t even afford to buy the houses from one another\u2014where the overseas foreign speculators with deeper pockets come in to buy out their housing stock and make us tenants in our own land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESo this Government is putting a stop to that. We are going to ban foreign buyers. We are going to do what other countries have done around the world. We\u2019re going to see more than $1.2 billion worth of GDP increase\u2014$1.2 billion worth of GDP increase\u2014perhaps up to $4 billion in some of the modelling. We are progressive, we believe in trade, but we believe in sharing the benefits of trade across the whole population, not just the 1 percent. We don\u2019t just represent the 1 percent, the really elite, well-off ones who benefit from trade agreements that don\u2019t protect the interests of ordinary New Zealanders. On this side of the House we believe in making sure that prosperity is shared, that we have social prosperity, economic prosperity, where every New Zealander has an opportunity to gain from trade agreements, not where they\u2019re locked out of the housing market by non-resident foreign buyers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ETheir track record is terrible. Regarding GDP and growth, exports as a proportion of GDP dropped under their watch from 30 percent down to 27 percent. That\u2019s actually a 10 percent drop under their watch. We intend to grow GDP. We intend to share the results of that prosperity and protect New Zealanders\u2019 interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002279f3dde7f77e4211a4af354a83fc70fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279f3dde7f77e4211a4af354a83fc70fe\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on this\u2014the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP). I chaired the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for most of the process through hearing the submissions when it was the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). I want to acknowledge the Hon Todd McClay, because there\u2019s 6,000 pages of text, and, actually, he\u2019s the guy that did all the heavy lifting along with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade and our great trade negotiators, in delivering for this country what is an outstanding free-trade agreement. The incoming Government was lucky enough to pick that up and sail in on his coat-tails.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI find it very hard in the House to stand here and to listen to the Government speakers get up and criticise the TPP and remind us of how much they stood against it\u2014and they did. Through the select committee process we had the New Zealand First member and the Labour member David Clark, the previous speaker, make it clear at every single point\u2014they were very clear about the fact that they did not support, nor would they support, the progression of the TPP. They would not support the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe reality of it is that this Government would not be passing CPTPP in this House if they did not have the support of the National Party. This Government does not have the numbers. It would not have the mandate, as a coalition Government, to be able to pass this legislation through this House and to enact the CPTPP. You needed the National Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d830c9d0515848e0bad5d6ad81234763\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Assistant Speaker does not need the National Party. She sure does not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022723d027cb2534e27b94e0780a0f41f64\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: OK, so I\u2019m just hearing from a Government member stating in the House\u2014do you not need the National Party to pass this legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220048af3973cb4f4cb131bc33177256b5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc1a2026f71c4ac6a387f786a75b8f5e\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: No I didn\u2019t say that. That\u2019s not what I said at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b15c63fe6d3c419eb2cc4c5dcb9042c0\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government not need the National Party to pass this legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022264113d099f14a82a4d8d2ed436217a6\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Try being a bit more accurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022997c3276a3974554a252cde3cf09fb3f\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265d74b65a2fc42eaa83566982da98743\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Clean your ears out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f66bf9048df4ecbbcde648c0a8b6f9e\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, Ruth said \u201CThey\u2019re on their own. They\u2019re on their own.\u201D The Greens have rolled over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277bb03a182054de3810a8e9ae4e8ca0a\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re on their own? They don\u2019t need us? They don\u2019t need us. OK. We\u2019ll have to have a chat about that in caucus. But the reality is this: I sat on that committee, and I want to acknowledge the Hon Todd McClay, because, actually, through the country there was quite a bit of concern initially around the agreement. When he became Minister he embarked on a dedicated programme of public meetings. And he was supported by his officials and by our trade negotiators. They went around the country and they ran a huge public education programme where they did public meetings for people to come along and they could discuss the concerns and issues that they had. And over time we slowly saw a massive reduction in the amount of negative emails that the committee may receive, submitters that were a lot more comfortable and understood exactly what the TPP was all about. And, actually, there was a huge change in the way that the country viewed this free-trade agreement, because, fundamentally, as a small trading nation down the bottom of the world, these high-quality free-trade agreements are extremely important for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EAnd the previous speaker, David Clark, was talking about a drop in GDP and chucking all these numbers out there. Let me give you some numbers, and these numbers were given to us by our officials on the committee, and they were very clear. They said, \u201CCountries that we have high-quality free-trade agreements with, our annual trade increases by about 10 percent; the countries that we don\u2019t have free-trade agreements with, it\u2019s quite the reverse\u2014they decline by about 10 percent.\u201D So it was very, very clear\u2014the message that was being given to the committee was that high-quality free-trade agreements are good for the country. We need them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EMy own caucus would ask me and say, \u201CWhere is this going to land? Surely, New Zealand First has seen the benefit in this trade agreement. Surely they\u2019re going to get behind it.\u201D And I\u2019d have to tell them no. They\u2019re low-level flies. They\u2019re not interested. They\u2019re going to continue to take a position against the free-trade agreement. There\u2019s going to be no movement on it. What about Labour? The Hon Phil Goff\u2014when he was in Government\u2014put together a free-trade agreement with China. And I want to acknowledge him and the work that he did on that. And, actually, that proved to be an extremely important free-trade agreement for us. When there was a global recession, that free-trade agreement was a big part of being able to hold up and carry our economy through those big challenges and those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo we thought that Labour might actually start to see the light, they might start to come around as well. No, they didn\u2019t. They continued to take a strong position against the TPP. They come into Government\u2014what happens? Overnight, poor old Professor Jane Kelsey\u2014Professor Jane Kelsey, who\u2019s an expert. She lectures at university. We had a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227338a758e4a4176928a7e0dd5497344\u0022\u003EHon Aupito William Sio\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s not old!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bd3d7ad5cf94a13905a0e9e6bd34a6c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Expert in what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0fe98b4823a4951baf74e02212966f1\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she\u2019s meant to be an expert in free-trade agreements. Did I say \u201Cold\u201D? Well, I\u2019ll retract that. Poor Professor Jane Kelsey. She\u2019d come along to the committee. She was against it, she was against the TPP, and she\u2019d come along to our select committee. She was very respectful in the way she made her submissions. In fact, I even held a meeting in my office for her with the other members of the select committee, and the Labour members, they were all over her. They were making her cucumber sandwiches and making her a cup of tea\u2014God, they couldn\u2019t do enough for her. They\u2019d escort her into the select committee room and make sure that she was comfortable\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297e453c441a84347ab31d167acea441c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: P\u014Dwhiri?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a76e77f2bcd4698b3374e5554f15626\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: The whole lot. The whole kit and caboodle. And then all of a sudden they go into Government, Professor Jane Kelsey comes out against the CPTPP, and it\u2019s all over. She\u2019s dropped like a hot coal. They don\u2019t want to know. There\u2019s no more cups of tea, there\u2019s no more cucumber sandwiches. All of a sudden they don\u2019t want to know and they don\u2019t want to listen. They don\u2019t want to listen to Professor Jane Kelsey. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EWhat happened? What changed? It was because she still had some major issues around the CPTPP. I\u2019m not saying I agree with those, but I just think it was a bit rough how in Opposition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022149121b5992a4d83ae9a26b2db5e005a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: She was used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e17f511ae7747a9b736f67334b704d2\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: She was used. That\u2019s a very good way of putting it. So that was a very, very interesting change in position by the Government on coming in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe Government has not negotiated a single change to the market access provisions to the markets of the other members of the CPTPP. They were envisaged, when it was in the TPP or the Trans-Pacific Partnership 11, so there\u2019s been no fundamental change to this agreement. You\u2019ll hear people get up and say, \u201COh, there\u2019s been changes to foreign buyers.\u201D They can\u2019t give us one example. We asked the Rt Hon Winston Peters, \u201CGive us an example.\u201D There was no example. He was more passionate about David Bennett in referring to him\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220491f29d32f74448a2da459eeaf55d37\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a long-time romance!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241a0eaef25de41fba580f01ebc5022a0\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re right. That\u2019s true. Ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe Government is naturally defensive, because they spent so much time telling the public the TPP was a bad free-trade agreement. I\u2019ll come back to the size of the TPP: 6,000 pages. How many pages do you think they needed to capture the minor changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c1cbcb6aecc45e49e25c47858573be5\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022589f3b5f8f4d47c284cb0a293453aa9b\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Two pages. Two pages of changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea8378c628b64c23ba98ccc0edc19877\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they were just suspensions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d25838e0db4f44d688f639be4529292c\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they were suspensions and, actually, one of those pages was something that we\u2019d already done, that we\u2019d already put in place. So, really, let\u2019s call it one page. Of a 6,000-page document, there was one page of changes, so whoever the next speaker is, I\u2019d invite them to get to their feet and to run us through the one page of changes, so the House can understand exactly what the changes were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to finish now and I\u2019m going to come back to my original point. The reason why we\u2019re supporting the agreement is because from day one we are a free-trade party. We believe in it, we understand that it\u2019s important for us as a nation. It\u2019s important for us to continue to engage in trade with the rest of the world. Without good free-trade agreements, without the ability for our companies to be able to do that, without the ability for us to get our products and services into the global market, then we would have massive problems. Our standard of living would begin to drop. We wouldn\u2019t have the money that we\u2019d need to invest into our health system, our education system, our infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve always been big supporters of free-trade agreements, and that is why the Labour Government\u2014the Labour-led Government or this coalition Government\u2014is fortunate that the National Party will make a decision, not a political decision. We could create a massive political blow to the Government if we chose to. We\u2019ll be driven by a decision that\u2019s right for the country, that\u2019s right for our nation, and that is why we will support the CPTPP, and that is the only reason why. That\u2019s the only reason why this Government is going to be able to pass this legislation. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u00220b11d5056017481f97c4d5b30cede208\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b11d5056017481f97c4d5b30cede208\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, it was in late February this year, just two weeks before this agreement was set to be signed without any further input or amendments possible, that I last rose to speak about it in this House. I said on that occasion that this agreement undermines our democracy in a multitude of ways, not least of all in the complete lack of input\u2014meaningful input\u2014or consultation possible by the public on the secret text, until very recently before that debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThe select committee process that we\u2019ve just gone through echoed those words. Submitters came one after the other and expressed total disillusionment. They had come before the last Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, chaired by the Hon Mark Mitchell, as he\u2019s just alluded to. They had said the same things, and as the text of this agreement had become public and they had scrambled to look at these changes that were promised\u2014this revolutionary change that the coalition told us had come about to justify its sudden turnabout on position\u2014these changes just weren\u2019t there. The submitters were forced to repeat themselves, were forced to keep talking about the lack of democracy, the secrecy, and lament the lack of consultation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EMost of all\u2014worst of all\u2014we found that the heart of the opposition in this agreement was still there. Our democracy was mostly under threat not just by the process but by the fact that the investor-State dispute settlement (ISDS) clauses remained, essentially, the same. Foreign investors, multinational corporations, can still sue our Government for future change that would regulate in the public interest in a system that sits above ours. It sits above our courts and above our Parliament. This House is being bound to look out for their profits above the interests of ordinary Kiwis\u2014above our human rights, environmental protection, our workers\u2019 rights, and the founding constitutional document of this country, the Treaty of Waitangi. Those concerns were repeated over and over again by submitters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo we heard about this and we learnt that, actually, there\u2019s good reason that we don\u2019t allow Kiwi businesses to sue Parliament or our Government for their profits. Why are we giving this away to foreign investors? This Government has talked about stopping foreign investment in terms of residential housing but we\u2019re about to give away far more rights to foreign corporates to do this in a multitude of other areas. In fact, we learned, as the submitters pointed out again and again, the 6,000 pages of this document aren\u2019t all that much about trade at all. Of the overwhelming majority of submitters who opposed this deal, nobody came along to say that they opposed trade. Nobody opposes free trade or international trade. We are a small nation, and they all recognised, as does the Green Party, that we need trade. We\u2019re not against trade, but this agreement is blatantly not all that much about trade. It is, in fact, about corporate privilege\u2014privileges that are set out in great detail in every single area of our lives: privacy rights, rights to technology that ordinary people don\u2019t have but that we are about to give away to foreign investors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022616e92ca21f5412bb8b22df0fdf0c043\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Explain that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248cd06ef44d342909090d48cc7a3efb7\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN\u003C/span\u003E: I will explain that. So in terms of privacy in this data-driven economy, in this data-driven world, where Facebook privacy breaches are determining the outcomes of elections in the leading nation of the free world, we\u2019re about to allow foreign corporates to keep their data offshore to avoid our Privacy Act protections. We have promised to refrain from regulating all future unknown technologies. Who does that benefit, and what does it have to do with trade?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe asked again and again\u2014and I\u2019ll quote, actually, from Dr Robin Gwynn, a submitter who said, \u201CWe already know the disproportionate fighting power of Apple, Google, Facebook, and the like. Do we really want to give them more power? Do we want to take away the power of our own Government, our future Governments, to regulate them?\u201D Apparently. How much is that worth? Well, apparently, not all that much, as the select committee report points out. We\u2019re not actually guaranteed all that much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThe doctors came along\u2014there were quite a few of them. We\u2019ve got the New Zealand Medical Association talking about two basic examples that they wanted to give of the types of regulation that they\u2019ve been lobbying for that won\u2019t come about under the TPP. The two regulations that they are prioritising, that they know will be threatened by the TPP, that they noted, was warning labels on alcohol packaging to warn pregnant mothers against foetal alcohol syndrome. Now that won\u2019t be possible. It\u2019ll be possible on New Zealand wine bottles, they said, but not on foreign imported ones. We\u2019ve excluded cigarette labelling and regulation from this deal, rightly, because we recognised that that would be terrible\u2014imagine if our Government couldn\u2019t regulate for public health in terms of warnings on packaging. \u201CWell, what about alcohol?\u201D, the doctors asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThe other thing that they noted was that they are fighting for an introduction of a sugar tax. Now, our Government, I think we can all agree, should assess public health issues like that based on merit, based on science, based on what is in the best interests of us all, of New Zealand, and not based on some agreement that was sold to us as a trade deal but that actually just gives away those types of rights, those democratic rights of this House. Even just the threat of that litigation hanging over this House is obscene. It\u2019s a perversion of our democracy, and submitters pointed that out over and over again. It is tying us to an old world order that has failed, that was the cause of the very recent global financial crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EAnother submitter, with great wit, Genevieve de Spa, called the TPP\u2014or \u201CCPTPP\u201D, she said, or whatever you call it\u2014\u201Cneoliberalism in globalism\u2019s clothing.\u201D We\u2019re not against globalism but we are against the old economic order that we all suffered under, that gave away everybody else\u2019s rights to the 1 percent, and nothing trickled down, and this is more of the same. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo we are disappointed. We are disappointed that spin was sold to us and that nothing much has, in fact, changed, and I am sad to be agreeing with this side of the House on that one. It is the same deal. We have signed on to it without consultation and without effective input. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe have heard from our Waitangi Tribunal that, actually, the treaty protections don\u2019t really go far enough to protect the full Treaty relationship. They don\u2019t, in fact, protect future law or regulation being passed to comply with the Treaty of Waitangi. And we put that aside\u2014our own expert body on this issue. We put that opinion aside, we didn\u2019t order an independent analysis, and this was the overwhelming vein of submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWhere is the independent analysis on health, on environmental issues? There isn\u2019t even mention of climate change. Why set out with all the force of law, all the detail in the world, the privileges and rights of foreign corporates but not mention\u2014not a single mention\u2014our obligations pursuant to treaties like the Paris Agreement on climate change? If this is our generation\u2019s nuclear-free moment, then where is that in this agreement, in this future-looking agreement that\u2019s going to govern every aspect of our lives, every aspect of issues that this House will consider in future on healthcare, on environmental issues, on human rights? There is not a mention of those in any kind of binding language in the investment chapter that not only sets out those obligations, not only binds this House, but makes us susceptible to litigation and a body that sits above our own law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo, as I said on that first occasion, I am sad to say that with this free-trade agreement\u2014that\u2019s not all that much about trade\u2014we haven\u2019t just signed on to a treaty; we have ceased sovereignty. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00226e107799902a44a09e9f6edb0d2bdedb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e107799902a44a09e9f6edb0d2bdedb\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m sure that there would have been some point in history where a speech similar to the one we\u2019ve just heard was impassionedly imploring not to sail too far to the east, for fear that they would fall off the earth. This claim by the Green Party that this bill is a complete loss of our sovereignty; that this bill, or the proposed bill, is somehow an affront to our democracy is actually to argue that the Paris climate change agreement is equally an affront to our democracy and an end to our sovereignty. It is an utterly rubbish position that should not be listened to by sane New Zealanders. One of the interesting and most important parts of this agreement is the provision that preserves New Zealand\u2019s rights to regulate for legitimate public policy purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ENow, in this sense, regulate means legislate. There is no exclusion on our being able to set up law inside this country that others have to follow. And some of the scaremongering that\u2019s been going on for a long time\u2014a lot of it, I have to say, fuelled by the Labour Party; fuelled by David Parker; fuelled by others from the Labour Party who spoke so passionately against the previous agreement\u2014is completely wrong. It\u2019s worth nothing, I think that New Zealand is a country that has prospered through trade from its post-European times. That is even pre-1840. We are a country that cannot afford to live the lifestyle we do with just a domestic economy. We must trade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI am heartened by people on the other side of the House saying, \u201CWell, we\u2019re all in favour of trade. We want it and we support it.\u201D, but going along with that means that there needs to be some frameworks that provide protection and, most importantly, opportunity for New Zealand traders. And that is what this deal does. But I have to say, putting the words \u201CComprehensive and Progressive\u201D in front of it\u2014not actually inserted by New Zealand or any New Zealand intervention at the conference that put it together; rather it was, I think, Canada who came up with those extra names\u2014and then being carried along with a group that said, \u201CLet\u2019s suspend 22 provisions of the TPP agreement and call it completely new and say, \u2018It\u2019s all wonderful, all of our concerns have been solved, no problem.\u2019 \u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWell, it\u2019s worth noting, a suspension is just that: it lasts for as long as the parties to the agreement are happy to have that provision suspended. So, there\u2019s no great achievement here\u2014no great achievement at all. And I don\u2019t doubt that when the United States finally gets a position that recognises that trade is actually probably their most important vehicle for influence around the world, and comes back to the table, many of those suspensions will be back up for negotiation. At that point, we\u2019re in. So I want to make it abundantly clear that there was nothing in those suspensions that would cause us a problem if they were to be reintroduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThat takes me to the issue of Pharmac. Well, what a load of rubbish we\u2019ve heard in here this afternoon: David Clark saying that Pharmac\u2019s future was threatened; David Parker saying Pharmac\u2019s future was threatened. Far from it\u2014far from it. The institution of Pharmac is unique to New Zealand. It\u2019s something that we\u2019re all really proud of. It works extremely well. Where there was a concern\u2014seized upon by the likes of the people that Golriz Ghahraman was just speaking about\u2014it was around the issue of copyright and patenting of particular drugs. The exercise was done by Treasury, who we heard today from the finance Minister is the most reliable analytical group in the country\u2014something that I have up to this point not actually agreed with. But none the less, I\u2019ll take his word for it. They said the maximum cost should this reach its full effect would be only some, I think, about $50 million a year. Now we might say, \u201CWell, gosh that\u2019s a lot of money.\u201D, but the reality is that would have ensured that we get a massive amount of extra revenue coming into this country from the hugely expanded trading opportunities that will come from this agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo, I think what I\u2019m trying to say is that it is very difficult to sit here in the House this afternoon and listen to the embarrassment-filled, vitriolic speeches from the other side of the House attacking us when they know full well that the only way they can get this bill eventually passed is with the National Party\u2019s vote, because we have a Government that does not in its entirety agree with this measure. So it seems to be somewhat odd that there would be such an extraordinary amount of attack on the current Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhat I can say too is it was also very evident, as we went through the select committee process, just how much work the Hon Todd McClay and, before him, the Hon Tim Groser had done on this particular proposal. New Zealand was the driving force that started it, along with the P4 group, and then when it sort of started to fall apart, it was New Zealand, again, who got the teams together, and ultimately it was the Japanese who said, \u201CThis is too big an opportunity for all of us.\u201D And remember that there are massive costs to their economy. All the barriers that we\u2019ve got to getting produce into their country are going to be dismantled, and they\u2019ve agreed to that. And they\u2019re saying simply, \u201CWell, we can accommodate the needs of a small country like New Zealand because we\u2019re a very big economy and we get the opportunity to expand our influence and our trade and our economic benefit through the other countries that are part of this as well.\u201D So it is a very, very good agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAnyone who would listen, as I did, to Professor Kelsey who came to a select committee some time ago with her very genuinely heartfelt concerns\u2014I don\u2019t doubt that\u2014but when you boil them down and ask the question \u201CWhat\u2019s wrong with trade?\u201D, it keeps coming back to all these other bits inside here that are about the nuts and bolts of how countries should reasonably deal with one another. And the terrible scaremongering over the investor-State dispute settlement (ISDS) propositions. That is where you have the investor-State dispute resolution process that protects as many New Zealand exporters as it will any importers into New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAnd you can understand, I think, the need for that when you see the just unilateral, no consideration, no Cabinet papers\u2014good idea, wake up in the morning, have to have a photoshoot on Friday, let\u2019s do an announcement, get all the TV cameras there\u2014end of oil and gas exploration in New Zealand. Well, there will be hundreds of millions of dollars lost by companies in that. I don\u2019t want to stray into that territory, but the extraordinary claim then that the company that is going to benefit the most\u2014because they\u2019ve now got, effectively, a monopoly on that\u2014supporting them is utterly ridiculous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo why shouldn\u2019t our exporters have our Government backing them in the markets they go into, to make sure that they\u2019re not poorly treated or unfairly dealt to in those markets? I think it\u2019s a reasonable thing, and I think many of the concerns that have been expressed about it are just that\u2014scaremongering. There\u2019s actually never been a case brought in New Zealand as a result of that provision, which has existed in other trade agreements for quite some time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis deal gives huge amounts of access to our New Zealand producers, effectively. We know that our productive base is something the Government has said they want to improve. Well, the only way that will improve is if there are markets to move into, if there are opportunities to sell the things we are good at producing to other countries. This is a document, an agreement, and a commitment to trade that will see that and will see our country prosper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not easy just to generate exports. I heard Dr Clark say that the volume of exports relative to GDP had fallen by about 3 percent over the last wee while. Well, look, it\u2019s a lot like all the other stats that you can measure around the nine months now of this Government\u2014on the wrong track. So this is a very good opportunity to try and reverse that. And no one should think that there are people on that side of the House so good at this no one else knows about it. I recall 2007\u2014Winston Peters export\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022558e739711e34c2bb01270f4c2bfbc31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022558e739711e34c2bb01270f4c2bfbc31\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the member. Sorry, your time has expired. I understand this is a split call\u2014the Hon Stuart Nash.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00223aa837c64b1e4e83a2d47a10359bf77f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223aa837c64b1e4e83a2d47a10359bf77f\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Assistant Speaker, if you\u2019ve been listening to the debate over the last 20 minutes you would have seen two polar opposite sides of the argument here; both, I think, a little bit out of balance. You heard Mr Brownlee talk about the fact that this was the best thing since sliced bread\u2014it was going to deliver in a way that nothing ever could possibly deliver for New Zealand. Then, on the other side, you heard from Golriz Ghahraman, who basically said that we\u2019re ceding our sovereignty, that this isn\u2019t about trade, and that this is going to be the death knell of the New Zealand economy and democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMy view is that neither of those represents the really true situation. However, as someone who used to engage in international trade, this is a document and this is an agreement that I think we need to support. The Prime Minister herself has said, and the Minister for Trade and Export Growth himself has said, that this is not the perfect agreement but we do need to be part of it\u2014of that there is no doubt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIf we have a look at the report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee and go through the points that they noted, I think it\u2019s worth having a look at those. There are strategic reasons for signing the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), and these are important reasons. We had a choice to make. We had a choice about whether we were inside the tent and could influence global trade and decisions going forward, certainly in our sphere of influence; or we could be outside the tent. To be outside the tent would be absolutely purely idealistic, and you know what, in the end I just don\u2019t think it would have been the right thing for us to do. I think it\u2019s better for us to have an agreement like this, be inside the tent, and actually play an active role in changing things that we don\u2019t necessarily agree with. I think that this is what the report says and I absolutely agree with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere are commercial interests in respect of signing the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP). Again, we are a trading nation. We have acknowledged that. I think every speaker has spoken about that. This is how we are going to grow our economy. One of the problems\u2014if it is a problem; and I\u2019m the Minister for Small Business\u2014of the New Zealand economy is that we\u2019ve got a population of 4\u00BD million people. You can only get so big if you\u2019re operating inside New Zealand, and for those with aspirations, we know you\u2019ve got to be able to export. We know you\u2019ve got to be able to export on the same footing as those from competitor nations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI would have the concern that as trade develops\u2014and it is developing at a great rate of knots. It\u2019s moving from being large multinationals only, with platforms that are operating these days, like Alibaba and eBay; and it\u2019s moving towards being small organisations, and small to medium sized enterprises that actually operate from places like Napier or Gore or New Plymouth or wherever. You don\u2019t have to be a massive multinational to be able to export.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI think the commercial reasons are very sound for us to be in this. I don\u2019t think it reduces tariffs fast enough\u2014let\u2019s be honest about this. But, again, what negotiations are about is compromise. I don\u2019t think in my time of doing this I\u2019ve ever entered into a negotiation and got absolutely everything I wanted. That\u2019s what free-trade agreements are about: it\u2019s about putting down a set of principles and it\u2019s about going out there, and it is about negotiation. That\u2019s why it\u2019s called a negotiation: there\u2019s a little bit of give; there\u2019s a little bit of take. We ceded sovereignty when we signed the anti-whaling convention. It means that as a nation we are now no longer allowed to whale. Well, that\u2019s fair enough and we agree with that. But I\u2019m just saying: don\u2019t say that because a free-trade agreement erodes a little part of sovereignty, that that is necessarily bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWhen we come to ISDS, or the investor-State dispute settlement clauses, I don\u2019t want to say that Sandra Kelsey\u2019s wrong, but I think that she takes a different view than I take\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c021b934da23459eae25a31eeb197084\u0022\u003ELouisa Wall\u003C/span\u003E: Jane.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228443d104a886488892938c6819601baa\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014having had a look at it. Jane Kelsey, sorry\u2014Jane Kelsey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EYou know, in order for ISDS clauses to kick in, there has to be egregious harm. The test for that is incredibly high. One thing I would say about ISDS clauses or arbitration is they have sort of moved away from where they were originally supposed to be. It was supposed to be a quick and relatively inexpensive way to sort out dispute settlements. Now they take a long time and they cost millions of dollars. But as Mr Brownlee highlighted, and I have to agree with him on this point, this also benefits New Zealand exporters as well. But I don\u2019t think the ISDS clauses are the big bogeymen that everyone paints them out to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI just want to reiterate: this is not the perfect agreement. This is not nirvana, but it is an agreement that I think we need to be part of, and I\u2019m proud of the fact that David Parker did such a good job to get us there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002298d3e61950424dc3ac3db8eff9b9eaaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298d3e61950424dc3ac3db8eff9b9eaaf\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak on the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP). The theme of my remarks will be letters. Today\u2019s debate is brought to you by the letters \u201CC\u201D, \u201CP\u201D, \u201CT\u201D, \u201CP\u201D, and \u201CP\u201D, but it is not Sesame Street that we will need advice on how to get to; it\u2019s Damascus, because it\u2019s a road to Damascus conversion that members opposite have, clearly, experienced\u2014or at least some of them; others, not so much, and fair enough too. The point that we seem to be hearing from the other side of the House, depending on which party you listen to, is either that it was bad before and it\u2019s bad now, or that it was bad before but it\u2019s good now. But I\u2019m here to tell you and tell all in the House that it was good before, it\u2019s good now, and it will still be good. It is a good deal for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ERemaining on the theme of letters, I want to talk about side letters, because we\u2019ve heard, in relation to the ISDS, or investor-State disputes settlement, provisions that some exceptions have been made that, supposedly, are going to be very helpful and beneficial to New Zealand. But the truth of the matter is that there are exceptions to the exceptions. There are carve-outs of the carve-out. These are extremely limited in scope, and, when added to the fact that there are considerable suspensions beyond even the suspension of disbelief that one must have to listen to and understand and agree and trust the words of the members of the House opposite, those things taken as a whole\u2014the suspensions and the fact that the side letters are themselves exceptional and not comprehensive\u2014mean that, in fact, what we are looking at is a trade agreement now that is good, and a trade agreement that before was good. And, indeed, in the words of the Green Party speaker on the bill, Golriz Ghahraman\u2014and heaven forbid that I should be quoting her with approval\u2014reflecting her position, her party\u2019s position, and the position of many submitters to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, there has not been much change to this proposed agreement during the time that it has transitioned from the previous Government to the Government that is now unexpectedly supporting it, albeit with our support being required along the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ENow, the agreement previously contained many provisions that were broader merely than just trade, and that remains the case. But, at its heart, there is much to like about it for those within New Zealand who trade overseas, and, of course, New Zealand consumers will benefit from the fact that those who trade with us will be able to do so in a way that doesn\u2019t reflect the impediments and obstructions of tariff and also non-tariff barriers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo some of the advantages for the nation, and if I might add on a parochial note, for the electorate of Helensville\u2014for those within the electorate who do export overseas and, indeed, enjoy the fruits of imports\u2014include, for example, wine. All tariffs on New Zealand wine will be eliminated, including immediate duty-free access to Canada, which is New Zealand\u2019s fourth largest wine market. That\u2019s very relevant to my part of the world, I\u2019m pleased to say. Similarly, nearly all tariffs on New Zealand sheep meat will be eliminated upon entry into force, including locking in preferential rates to Canada, which is New Zealand\u2019s seventh largest sheep meat market. So, again, the benefits to the country overall, and indeed to the area that I represent, will be considerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOn a similar and final note, the CPTPP\u2014just as the Trans-Pacific Partnership did\u2014includes useful improvements for New Zealand\u2019s dairy exporters. So there will be a huge overall tariff reduction, and that will be via preferential access to new quotas into various countries. For that, we can all be thankful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFinally, if I may finish on my themes of letters: one more letter, and it\u2019s the letter \u201CU\u201D. It stands for U-turn, which has been the change of heart, the road to Damascus conversion that has been experienced by some members opposite. They now understand the benefits that we have been talking about for some time now. They will need to convince their former supporters\u2014and, I emphasise, former supporters\u2014and, indeed, their current colleagues of the merits of this trade deal. We remain convinced. We will continue to support it for the benefit of the country, and, for that reason, it\u2019s a pleasure to stand with the colleagues on this side of the House and maintain our principled and consistent position\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u002223a40f162c4b4423af0c405ca1cb1535\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223a40f162c4b4423af0c405ca1cb1535\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I apologise\u2014thank you\u2014your time\u2019s expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u002206c293cf769d4f778536d13d4e4f5c7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206c293cf769d4f778536d13d4e4f5c7a\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. This is a new area for me, and I get to participate in this debate this afternoon as a member of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee. We are discussing today the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, the CPTPP, and, prior to this iteration, it was called the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). I want to take the opportunity to acknowledge our current Minister, David Parker, for a successful negotiation that means New Zealand is part of the CPTPP, and I would like to acknowledge Minister McClay, who got us to a point where we were part of the TPP negotiations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EAnd now we have an agreement that\u2014and I agree with my colleague Stuart Nash\u2014some people think is hugely different. \u201CThere\u2019s a huge difference between CPTPP and TPP.\u201D; \u201CThere is no difference.\u201D And, actually, if you read our select committee report, in fact, that is what is highlighted: that variance of opinion. So I\u2019m here to talk about, from my perspective I guess, the differences, but also the benefit to the country of this specific trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EFirstly, I can say that the major differences between CPTPP and TPP are the 22 suspended provisions. What I want to highlight the most in terms of those suspended provisions is that\u2014and this is from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade website\u2014\u201CAgreement of all CPTPP members would be needed for these provisions to take effect in the future.\u201D Now, I think that\u2019s really important, because\u2014I will highlight two now. The first is that there was a big issue\u2014and particularly amongst all our medical sector\u2014about the impact of the CPTPP on Pharmac and Pharmac\u2019s ability to procure drugs. It was expected to cost us, actually, initially $4.5 million and then $2.2 million per year thereafter. So that is no longer an issue; so that is a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EAnd then the other one I want to highlight was that businesses cannot sue the Government for investment contract breaches. Now, that\u2019s incredibly important because that was one of the issues that people had with the investor-State dispute settlement provisions: that we, in fact, could be sued. So they are a couple of differences, and there are 20 others, but what we all should be reassured about is that unless we agree in the future, those 22 suspended provisions can never re-enter this agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo the CPTPP: here is a bit of a summary about what it represents. It represents 13.5 percent of global GDP. That\u2019s 480 million consumers, that\u2019s 30 percent of New Zealand\u2019s export goods, that\u2019s 31 percent of New Zealand\u2019s export services, and that\u2019s 64 percent of foreign direct inward investment and 56 percent of total outward investment, and what are the benefits to us? The benefits to us and our sectors are increased market access and decreased costs because of increased speed to conduct business. So this CPTPP trade agreement will create a regulatory environment that increases our trade in goods and services to ensure that our economy is sustainable, inclusive, and focuses on economic growth. The net benefit to us by 2030 is a $1.2 billion increase in GDP. So that\u2019s the guts of it. That\u2019s what the agreement is going to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWhen you look at different submitters\u2014and I particularly want to focus at the moment on the New Zealand International Business Forum. Their assessment of the CPTPP was that currently, this trade in New Zealand has created 625,000 jobs. So there\u2019s an expectation, or an anticipation, that because of the increased volumes in goods and services that will be traded, there will be more jobs that will benefit our economy. The interesting thing about their submission to the select committee, however, was that they couldn\u2019t quantify it, which I found quite interesting. But what they could quantify was the tariff savings, and those tariff savings were $220 million, basically, which affects 92 percent of our current exports. The industries that are going to benefit the most are horticulture, wine, forestry, seafood, textiles, and manufactured products. The new markets that will be open to us through the CPTPP are Canada, Japan, Mexico, and Peru. So from the New Zealand International Business Forum\u2019s perspective, they were 100 percent supportive of our signing the CPTPP. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade did their own national interest analysis, and, actually, that point needs to be highlighted, because one of the issues from many submitters was: where\u2019s the independent national interest analysis, and how can the ministry who\u2019s been vested with the responsibility to create the agreement then be the ones who say, \u201CThis is what we get out of it.\u201D? So I do want to highlight it, but what I want to highlight in their submission to the select committee was that of those 625,000 jobs, that\u2019s a quarter of New Zealanders whose work and incomes depend on export. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThere was a discussion paper from the Reserve Bank entitled Exporting and Performance, and, essentially, what it said is that if you work in the export sector, worker productivity increases by 36 percent, employment growth in that sector increases by between 7 percent and 12 percent, and wages are 6 percent higher. So for people who doubt how valuable increasing our exports can be, I think I\u2019m convinced by that evidence, and it was that evidence that we needed to see before the select committee to feel reassured that the CPTPP is actually going to add value and benefit our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EFrom the unions\u2019 perspective and from civil society\u2019s perspective, can I say that that actually was their biggest concern. It was that it wasn\u2019t going to create more jobs and, in fact, those jobs weren\u2019t going to be high-quality, well-paid jobs. So they highlighted issues specifically for women and for indigenous peoples, and there was actually a distrust between civil society and big business, because they just fundamentally do not believe that business works in the interests of workers and marginalised and minority groups. The other thing that they were really clear about was that big business does not look after the environment. So, in a nutshell, the people who came and supported it were the exporters, and the people who came and opposed it were those who weren\u2019t exporters, but they advocated on behalf of those that they think are most affected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ENow, I do want to talk in just my last couple of minutes about the Treaty clause. The most interesting thing about the Treaty clause, from my perspective, is that we found out that the Treaty clause actually ended up in the New Zealand - Singapore closer economic partnership agreement signed in 2000 because of the Hon Parekura Horomia and also because of the Hon Jim Sutton. They, in fact, did consult on the Treaty clause. In fact, there were hui held in Christchurch, Rotorua, South Auckland, and Whangarei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing about the Treaty clause is that we expanded the Treaty clause\u2014and when I say \u201Cwe\u201D, I say Labour. I\u2019ve got a letter here from the then Leader of the Opposition, the Rt Hon Jenny Shipley, and I\u2019ll read it. It says, \u201CAs a result of the outreach we have conducted with M\u0101ori on the CEP with Singapore, our MFAT view is that the proposed article on the Treaty of Waitangi needs to be broadened to make it clear that it is not just actions taken to fulfil Treaty obligations that would be exempted from the agreement but also affirmative action programmes for M\u0101ori\u2014e.g., closing the gaps\u2014which may not be directly linked to a specific Treaty obligation.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe National Party nearly voted against that agreement because of our expansion of that Treaty exemption, and I find it incredibly interesting, the ignorance that people had about where that Treaty clause came from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ENow, is it fit for purpose today? The Waitangi Tribunal says yes: \u201CThere may be a chilling effect of the Government\u201D\u2014but that\u2019s us, and I have confidence that our Government will not be compromised\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c69e4f08fc894f0ea8ca8e97bbbce831\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c69e4f08fc894f0ea8ca8e97bbbce831\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the member. Your time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022eca8a665e67e4517a380721485572938\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eca8a665e67e4517a380721485572938\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Assistant Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e Te Whare. I think I\u2019m the penultimate speaker in this debate, and I have to say I\u2019ve thoroughly enjoyed it at this late stage on a Thursday afternoon. Could I acknowledge in particular the member for Manurewa, Louisa Wall. I always enjoy listening to her. I want to thank her for another thoughtful contribution, and I also enjoyed the contribution from the Hon Stuart Nash before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAll the contributions on this side of the House have been outstanding. I particularly enjoyed the member for Helensville bringing it to us in the letters\u2014the new letters, of course, are \u201CCTP\u201D. After listening to him, I decided those letters stand for \u201CChris the Penk\u201D, because everything else about the agreement is pretty much the way it was, but it was good that he managed to bring an original flavour to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAt the outset, it is appropriate for me to acknowledge, as others have done, the former and current trade Ministers for the great work that they have done, and also the trade negotiators who worked so hard over so many years\u2014both on the original Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement (TPPA) and on this revised version of that agreement\u2014to bring us something that just about everyone who has spoken today has acknowledged is very important for our country. To the Hon Tim Groser, who was the Minister of Trade for most of the time under the Rt Hon Sir John Key\u2014he is now, of course, our ambassador in Washington, but the work began in his time\u2014to the Hon Todd McClay, who was described by one of the previous speakers as having done much of the heavy lifting in this particular agreement and in having brought the TPPA to its conclusion; and to the Hon David Parker, who has been the Minister since the change from the TPPA to this revised version, the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), I congratulate all of them and thank them for the work that they\u2019ve done in our interests\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6d91c3e53ac47ca826ea13b422d644e\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve diminished Mr Parker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa6373ce5e114296918a259264e0ccc3\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014because this is a very important achievement for New Zealand. I assume that even Mr Little thinks that, although his incoherent contribution a moment ago leaves me wondering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIn this morning\u2019s Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee Estimates hearing, where, of course, both trade and foreign policy issues were on the agenda, we had the dubious pleasure of hearing from the current Foreign Minister. I made the point to him when I was raising some questions after his initial opening remarks that his repeated flip-flops and inconsistent positions on matters of policy relating to his current portfolio have not only undermined the traditionally bipartisan approach that New Zealand MPs have brought to foreign policy\u2014and he reminded us that this is, I think, the 75th anniversary of the creation of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade\u2014but it has also done considerable damage to our standing in the international community. We have looked a bit of a laughing stock under his tenure, on this particular issue and many others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI have to say, not surprisingly, the Foreign Minister wasn\u2019t overly delighted with my assessment, and he demanded evidence to back up the claim that I\u2019d made. So I was only too happy to do that, and, in fact\u2014thoughtlessly\u2014some of the other members of the committee thought that they had a right to ask some questions as well, and I ran out of time before I could give him all nine that I\u2019d jotted down. But I did make the point that one of the things that he had insisted upon\u2014and that became apparent when the coalition agreement was released in October of last year\u2014was a commitment to restarting negotiations for a free-trade agreement with Russia. Now, of course, he denies that he ever did that, but that\u2019s there in the coalition agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EHe also was not particularly pleased by the evidence that I presented of his claim in a TV interview just a few months ago\u2014in fact, in March\u2014that there was no evidence of Russian involvement in the shooting down of the Malaysian airliner MH17 over Ukraine. Now, of course, he\u2019s confronted with the fact that there\u2019s a very credible international report that shows that that is exactly what has happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI went through his position on the Skripal father and daughter and the nerve agent attack, but the point I\u2019m making is that I would have liked also to have been able to get to his total about-face on this CPTPP agreement, which was previously known as the TPPA, because an about-face it most definitely is. For no matter how many times Ministers Parker and Peters have tried to argue before today, and again in the House this afternoon\u2014and methinks they doth protest too much\u2014nevertheless, this is the revised TPPA agreement with just a few minor changes, which the vast majority of people will never notice and never be aware of, and which certainly do not satisfy those who opposed the original TPPA. And, as Golriz Ghahraman rightly pointed out when she spoke earlier, they came back to the committee to protest against this time, as well. They\u2014led by Professor Jane Kelsey and others\u2014without exception all made the point that there are no significant changes and that the reasons for their opposition to the TPPA remain in their opposition to the CPTPP. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWell, I congratulate the Greens for at least remaining consistent in that, because when Mr Parker\u2019s supporters and Mr Peters\u2019 supporters and some of the Greens were protesting outside my electorate office in Te Rapa about a year ago, and they left a little bit of graffiti and some documents and possibly didn\u2019t notice that I wasn\u2019t there at the time\u2014there can\u2019t have been very many of them\u2014all of them, Labour, the Greens, and New Zealand First, were all in there together opposing this agreement. Now, we find that suddenly it\u2019s wonderful because Labour and New Zealand First are in Government and it\u2019s a great thing, and yet none of the protesters see any material difference in the agreement at all. But I have to say we do welcome the change of heart by Labour and New Zealand First, because this agreement is\u2014as Mr Penk said a moment ago\u2014something that was good for New Zealand when it was the TPPA and it\u2019s good for New Zealand now, and I\u2019m delighted to see that it\u2019s there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo today, when Mr Peters, who, frankly, is neither right nor honourable, departed quickly from the facts and resorted to his customary abuse, particularly of me\u2014and that\u2019s his standard tactic whenever he\u2019s confronted with the inconsistency of his positions. Today, we\u2019ve had him in the House insulting all of my colleagues\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229db6552562c64e8a9ad16a6d92c261eb\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Can I just ask if it is within the Standing Orders for the member to say that another member of this House is not honourable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dda89a5642d43cb8630f05cb66c0570\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would say that would tend to lead to disorder, so I would encourage the member not to do that again. Perhaps a first warning\u2014a first and only warning\u2014given that it is Thursday afternoon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e183344455bf4c10bd07c9675139b523\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. How very kind of you. The point I\u2019m making is that that Minister was insulting all of our colleagues, and I think he did have a go at everyone who had spoken. He insulted just about all of Fonterra. He insulted, frankly, the intelligence of everybody who was listening to him in his incoherent rant, and the only thing that I could discern from it was that he resorted to his old chestnut about the baubles of office and fancy limousines. Well, in the brief time I was a Minister, I never rode in a limousine, but that\u2019s beside the point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EHe went all over the traps. The one thing he didn\u2019t do was talk at all about the agreement. So let me just bring to his attention what I think he would have liked to have said, had he not thought of talking about its benefits only 13 seconds before his time finished. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIf you look at the document that Louisa Wall has just brought to our attention, this excellent national interest analysis of the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, it makes the point that international trade stimulates individual productivity, employment growth, and higher wages in New Zealand. It acknowledges the tremendous advocacy of the Hon Todd McClay, which was integral to the formulation of the CPTPP. It makes the point that internationally, tariffs are escalating on such products as steel, aluminium, alcohol, and soya beans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo when you get to the section\u2014and I\u2019ll cut to the chase\u2014on what\u2019s in the CPTPP for New Zealand, it makes the point that, strategically, the CPTPP promotes New Zealand\u2019s voice in shaping the dynamics of the regional economy. Commercially, the CPTPP will increase New Zealand\u2019s export trade agreement coverage by 9 percent\u2014that\u2019s phenomenal. The CPTPP delivers new free-trade agreements for New Zealand with Canada, Japan, Mexico, and Peru, and greater benefit for our existing agreements with the other parties to the agreement. The CPTPP will facilitate a minimum $222.4 million annually in tariff savings. What a fantastic thing that is for our primary producers. The CPTPP gives New Zealand exporters equal trade power to Australia and Chile, with markets like Japan, one of the world\u2019s biggest economies and one of the hardest to get an agreement with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo key outcomes include removal of tariffs from kiwifruit, wine, lamb, forestry, apples, beef, and fish. In various partner countries, it reduces dairy export tariffs, boosts horticultural sector profits, and reduces non-tariff barriers. These are all vitally important for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo I encourage every New Zealander who has an interest in this to get hold of the national interest analysis, because I couldn\u2019t possibly do justice to it in this brief contribution. But I conclude it as I commenced\u2014this is another compelling example of the flip-flops that are typical of the current Minister. I\u2019m just delighted that we\u2019ve got to this point. Let\u2019s get on with it now and make the legislative changes that are needed before he has another flip-flop and we find ourselves back to the position he held about 20 minutes ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e701289c8542423fa00fd42d3ce37eef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e701289c8542423fa00fd42d3ce37eef\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. Your time has expired. Before I call the member, I just need to remind the House that this is actually a time-limited debate, limited to two hours. The member will have approximately just over seven minutes to speak, and I\u2019ll set the timer for five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022e78bcb83e56147b9995eea56da7c86ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e78bcb83e56147b9995eea56da7c86ac\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. There\u2019s been a lot of talk and a lot of to-ing and fro-ing about U-turns and what have you, and I was glad to see Mr Macindoe get his hurt feelings off his chest, from earlier this morning. I hope he\u2019s feeling a lot better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut you know what I did, and you might think I\u2019m a sucker for punishment? I got this document\u2014it doesn\u2019t seem to be 6,000 pages\u2014and I read it. What I want to speak about today really is two things. There\u2019s two things I want to do: one is to talk about why we need to enter into this agreement and the other is to touch on some aspects of this agreement, which haven\u2019t really been mentioned but are probably the greatest merits of it. Because it is a detailed document\u2014that is why it\u2019s called comprehensive. And there are some really fantastic clauses in there, which we absolutely need as a trading framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThat brings me to my first point, which is that at this time we absolutely need to have a trading framework which isn\u2019t based on whim, it isn\u2019t based on knee-jerk reactions; it\u2019s based on rules, because we can see not too far away what happens if we have a trading framework based on whim. People enter into trade wars. They enter into discussions. They get hurt feelings, and all of a sudden we have tariffs going up around the world. So what we need is a comprehensive and progressive trade framework, and that\u2019s what we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe also need multilateralism. We need to make sure we bring in as many people as we can into this because one-on-one arrangements don\u2019t work in the long run. We\u2019ve got to have a comprehensive approach to it. Bring in as many people, as many State parties, as we can, because unless we do that, we\u2019ll have a plethora of agreements which may or may not be consistent and we\u2019ll be doing it for ever and a day. That\u2019s why we need to do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, this document has been pitched largely as a tariff reduction measure. To my mind, that\u2019s one of the least important aspects of it. It\u2019s true that tariffs will reduce and that will increase our national income, but what it also does is put a rule-based framework around how we trade and what we trade in. And once we get an even playing field, I am confident that New Zealand can compete on the international stage. All we need is for equal treatment. Ms Ghahraman talked about ceding sovereignty. I don\u2019t see it that way. Having an international agreement, an agreement where State parties agree on a common framework, has been with us for hundreds of years. That is what international relations and international law is based upon, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIf you go through the agreement, as I have, you\u2019ll see a whole lot of really useful and important rules there. One that sprung to mind was the rules of origin, where State parties have agreed that we need clear rules of origin\u2014that when we send our goods overseas, we want to be able to say that this product is made in New Zealand. And we want to do that on an even footing, so that if someone wants to buy our product because it\u2019s from New Zealand, there\u2019s not some deceptive Kiwi cuv\u00E9e that looks like it\u2019s come from New Zealand and puts itself out there as if it\u2019s come from New Zealand but, in fact, hasn\u2019t. So rules of origin is just one of those things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other thing that this comprehensive agreement addresses is non-trade barriers, customs cooperation. What I\u2019m going to go to, in fact, because this is a time-limited debate, is focus on chapter 23 on development, because this is what is progressive about this agreement. It recognises that it\u2019s not all about income. It\u2019s not all about cash flow. And if you look at this chapter\u2014chapter 23\u2014it recognises the importance of trade to foster development. So chapter 23.1 clause 2: we need more inclusive economic growth, and that includes a broad-based distribution of the benefits of economic growth to the expansion of business and industry, the creation of jobs, and the alleviation of poverty. That is a real step forward in international trade, and if you look over the page, to article 23.4, that clause deals with women in economic growth. The parties recognise that enhancing opportunities for women in their territories, including women workers and business owners to participate, is important. That is something you wouldn\u2019t expect to see in a trade agreement, but here we have State parties around the Pacific committing to this kind of progressive approach to trade, and I applaud it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe can look at the environment chapter, recognising the role of State parties within trade to protect the environment and, what\u2019s more, explicitly the conservation and sustainable use of fisheries. So, again, something that is absolutely critical to New Zealand\u2014we now have Pacific nations coming along with us in the preservation of our fisheries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EChapter 26 deals with anti-corruption. Chapter 29 deals with labour, including the recognition and preservation of the right to collective bargaining. That\u2019s progressive. So we heard a lot of submissions, and one of the reasons I read this document was because I was concerned I was missing something. So many people were coming out\u2014and I accept the Green Party\u2019s point that many people came and turned up to select committee and opposed it. So I read it, and most people hadn\u2019t. And they were wrong in many of their assertions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo I commend this bill to the House. I thank the members of the public who made those submissions, and I recognise the work that was done by the National Party, and now what we have is a truly comprehensive\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe05c7f497964998aa833d98749407df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe05c7f497964998aa833d98749407df\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the member. The time for this debate has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002292ab72a06ea6480b972f0a54fb19bd91\u0022\u003ETaxation (Neutralising Base Erosion and Profit Shifting) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022411345e65e4043da8d5e833784f2da6e\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000562\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 12 June.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d638b1167d6c4898a0c114a4ce567871\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Income Tax Act 2007 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u00224101433b729343af84e9d0ae901f6653\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224101433b729343af84e9d0ae901f6653\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Yes, so continuing this discussion around this base erosion profit shifting bill\u2014very good bill, very complicated, as we talked last time. It\u2019s great to see the Minister in the chair, Stuart Nash, because I think this is an important bill\u2014that everyone understands it. One of the areas we were talking a little bit about last time, although I\u2019ve got to say I was cut off at the knees\u2014I was rapt because I was talking about thin capitalisation rules, which I know that the Minister in the chair is a fan of and understands well. That\u2019s why it\u2019s also good to have the Minister, because I wanted to ask some questions about thin capitalisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EPerhaps it\u2019s just worthwhile, just for a sec, just to recap: what do we mean by thin capitalisation? Well, thin capitalisation, basically, means is there enough ownership equity or shareholders\u2019 funds in a business to make sure that the business is well capitalised and can meet its future liabilities? Now, when you look at a balance sheet of a company, on one side you have capital\u2014shareholders and assets\u2014and on the other side you have liabilities\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3c04170d5664068a1fc18ca6eeb4b25\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Like the New Zealand First Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acc9027c874c4e1ab1c502d69261eb02\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right, Mr Bennett. And so the importance of thin capitalisation\u2014what that refers to is that some companies, if they want to reduce their profits, what they will do is increase their debt as much as possible and, therefore, the interest cost on that debt is higher than what it might otherwise be and therefore the interest deduction comes off the profit and therefore the profit is minimised and, consequently, the tax payable by that entity is minimised. That is, basically, what BEPS is all about\u2014base erosion and profit shifting. In many cases involves using either high interest rates\u2014and we covered that previously to some extent\u2014or a high amount of debt. And the thin capitalisation rules are about actually making sure that the debt levels\u2014that component\u2014is reasonable and fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ENow, last time I was talking, and there are a number of submissions, but particularly there\u2019s a very good submission from PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC). They said that the treatment of non-debt liabilities should actually not be included in how you assess your liabilities, but specifically went on to say that if you are going to look at them, they need to better reflect how those liabilities are viewed. Now, there are a whole lot of different liabilities, and most people think about liabilities\u2014if you\u2019re Mr Twyford thinking about his housing situation: lots of liability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThere are other types. There are contingent liabilities that may not represent a real debt at this moment, or there are other aspects of the operation. The one that is most pertinent, I think, is the mining industry\u2014the extractive industry\u2014and I was just touching on this when I was, unfortunately, stopped last time. When you think about an extractive industry, where you\u2019re mining a quarry or oil or whatever, at some stage at the end of that project you will have an obligation, a liability, to remediate that situation. It may be a quarry, or it may be some other area that you\u2019ve exploited. That needs to be bought back, and it might be either to decontaminate it or it might be around how that quarry is brought back into an environmental shape.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOf course, what the argument of PwC was is if this non-debt component was being excluded, well, in some cases actually it should be included, because it\u2019s actually a very relevant thing, and that\u2019s something I think I\u2019d like to hear the Minister\u2019s view on. Of course, we had the officials\u2019 view on it. They said that they\u2019d work through this issue, and the standardisation approach that they are talking about allowed a New Zealand group to deduct up to 110 percent of the worldwide group debt within the context of a safe harbour\u2014and that\u2019s an area that we actually haven\u2019t discussed previously\u2014but that part of it was covered. I\u2019m not so sure in terms of some of those specific entities, and particularly in relation to mining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other area is around thin capitalisation, and particularly deferred tax liabilities, and whether these should be included in non-debt liabilities. Again, we had a host of submissions on them from very reputable firms: Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand, Corporate Taxpayers Group, Ernst \u0026amp; Young, KPMG, Powerco, PwC\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00221fe1f1bd407b45a59990b9c7e0adc8bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fe1f1bd407b45a59990b9c7e0adc8bb\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the Taxation (Neutralising Base Erosion and Profit Shifting) Bill. I want to dwell in my contribution on the permanent establishment rules. These are outlined, particularly in clauses 4, 34, 43\u2014the definitions\u2014and clauses 44 to 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENow, of course, the permanent establishment rules propose a new anti-avoidance rule for large multinationals that structure to avoid having permanent establishment and therefore a taxable presence in New Zealand. So the new rules that are proposed here both simplify the test for determining whether an item of income has a source in New Zealand and ensure that all items of income New Zealand is entitled to tax under a double tax agreement (DTA) will be taxable under domestic law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENow, what I want to raise some questions for the Minister this evening about are some comments that have been made by officials, in particular, because while submitters were generally supportive of the proposed anti-avoidance rule\u2014and while National shares that support\u2014there were some aspects where concerns were outlined, and I just want to take a few of those this evening. So in particular, we had the concern raised that the proposed rules would have a detrimental effect on foreign direct investment. Of course, foreign direct investment is very important to the growth of New Zealand businesses, the provision of jobs, and income, and that is something that we want to ensure can happen in the proper manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo, in particular, there were submissions from Deloitte, the Corporate Taxpayers Group, PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), and the Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand noting that if other countries adopted similar positions in their domestic legislation, many New Zealand exporters could find themselves with permanent establishments (PE) overseas that they don\u2019t currently have. Now, officials have of course responded to that concern, saying that New Zealand is undertaking these base erosion and profit shifting (BEPS) measures in line with most other OECD countries and that the expected tax revenue increase is expected to be relatively small.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo I just wondered, for one thing, whether the Minister would indulge us by commenting on whether or not he can update the House on the expected tax revenue increases as a result of this, and, secondly, whether he can give us any update on the progress of other OECD countries in undertaking these BEPS measures. Those would be useful things to have an update on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENow, the second issue I want to comment on this evening was from a submission from KPMG, where they raised the important issue of the need for clear guidance in the officials\u2019 report. Of course, members in this House know that the officials\u2019 report has no official standing when it comes to interpretation of this legislation, so I want to raise two particular issues: one which was around determining whether an activity is sufficiently connected to a sale in New Zealand, and, if so, determining whether that activity is preparatory or auxiliary. What officials have said is that this information, this guidance, would be provided in a tax information bulletin on enactment of the bill. So I\u2019m just wondering if the Minister, this evening, can confirm that that bulletin is in fact under preparation, and whether he can confirm in fact when that bulletin will be provided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAnother issue that I would like to comment on is this question of treaty override. So the proposed PE anti-avoidance rules\u2014as members who have clearly read this bill in detail understand\u2014is overriding some of New Zealand\u2019s DTAs. Now, we had a number of submitters from Chapman Tripp, Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand, the Corporate Taxpayers Group, KPMG, the New Zealand Law Society, and Russell McVeagh raise a concern that this was a unilateral override. What officials have outlined is that this anti-avoidance rule is a measure that only applies if there is a more than merely incidental purpose of tax avoidance and, accordingly, it should not conflict with New Zealand\u2019s DTAs in the vast majority of cases. I wondered whether it would give comfort to those submitters and to those looking at this legislation\u2014because this House is supporting it\u2014if the Minister was able to detail in fact the small number of cases where it would actually have any override, because I think what officials are saying here is that it would be a very small number of cases. It would probably be useful to outline what those are, if the Minister could do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also noted that the wider PE definition will be added to the OECD model convention and so represents what the OECD considers to be the current best practice. Again, I ask you: has this happened yet? Has this wider PE definition\u2014[Bell rung] Can I continue, Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a54daeb101bc47199920c436fd2865f2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Nicola Willis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f72bdcf018f144a48facad8c04f0f72e\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: So what I ask is simply\u2014the member wishes to be better informed and I\u2019m sure the Minister can inform her whether that widened PE definition will, in fact, be added to the OECD model convention, and so whether we have, in fact, had that representation of what the OECD considers to be best practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI now want to move to the issue of royalties and the deemed PE source rule. This is an issue that KPMG and PwC, in particular, raised a broader concern\u2014that the proposed changes increased the risk of unintended consequences such as double taxation, and, of course, members of this House don\u2019t want double taxation to be something that occurs incidentally. So what officials have told us in this regard is that the risk of double taxation can be seen as a disincentive to entering into PE avoidance arrangements, which they note are typically designed to achieve double non-taxation. So, essentially, officials have said that they don\u2019t think the risk of double taxation exists because of the nature of current arrangements. I wonder whether the Minister can enlighten the committee a bit further by detailing evidence for the claim that the risk of double taxation is actually seen as a disincentive to entering those PE avoidance arrangements in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s interesting to note the submission from the Corporate Taxpayers Group on the scope of the PE anti-avoidance role. In terms of permanent establishment, they are very clear in reminding this House that we should be careful that the scope of the rule should not be widened in future. So they\u2019re very careful that the scope as it currently stands is appropriate, but to widen it in future would not be appropriate. It has been heartening to have officials confirm that they have no intention of widening that anti-avoidance rule beyond its current scope, and it would be useful to have the Minister confirm that that is the Government\u2019s intention with this part of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI now want to move to the issue of the application of the permanent establishment rule\u2014in particular, as it relates to the threshold that may still result in the rule applying to smaller New Zealand resident entities. So what Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand raised as an issue was the idea that the EU has estimated that there are about 6,000 multinationals that fit the definition in the bill around the threshold of turnover of \u20AC750 million, but officials note that the rule only applies if the non-resident has a related party in New Zealand that carries on sales-related activities. So it\u2019s actually a two-part test: one, do they meet that EU turnover threshold, and, two, do they have a related party that carries on sales-related activities in New Zealand? So my question is: do we have an estimate from officials, or does the Minister have information, that can tell us actually how many entities in New Zealand we think this rule might apply to? I suggest it would give submitters a lot of comfort to know it\u2019s a lot fewer than the 6,000 that meet the first test, once we think of that second test in terms of sales-related activities. So it would be useful to have that number. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI now move to the issue of the proposed application dates, because some submitters, of course, were clear that they didn\u2019t think they allowed sufficient time for multinationals to restructure. Of course this is a legitimate concern, because what this is about is multinationals saying \u201CYes, we do want to meet the law as it stands. It is appropriate that we do so.\u201D but acknowledging that in some cases, it takes some time to rearrange tax affairs to meet the law. So again, officials have considered that and have given some comfort by saying that inland revenue will take any current restructuring process into account when it investigates or assesses a multinational following the introduction of the proposed rule. I think it would be very useful for the Minister to put on the record of this House in the Hansard that, in fact, that is the approach that inland revenue will take. Furthermore, I would be very interested to understand what conversations the Minister has had with the IRD about this and whether any directions have been given or whether he intends to give the IRD any directions on this in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI now turn to the issue of the facilitator rule and the matters that it may cover\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e13b5ad7346340e6b1ba1ebf6e77e59d\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Ah, the facilitator rule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022270098c1ca7e46ce9ad4a86fd6667f43\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. So the chartered accountants\u2014again, they\u2019ve been heavy submitters obviously on this bill, as you would expect, and clearly play a very important role in ensuring that this legislation be interpreted well by businesses and by those operating in New Zealand. What they have iterated is that they believe that it should cover sales only, and not extend to activities that don\u2019t relate to a specific sale, such as warehousing, marketing, and advertising. Now, of course, in the commentary to the bill, those preparatory or auxiliary activities are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022790d0808b81d4d979466f32986f57057\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022790d0808b81d4d979466f32986f57057\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Assistant Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3f9eee45f2c4069a2cd290cc4a8891a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3f9eee45f2c4069a2cd290cc4a8891a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s great to be able to talk on this bill as well, and I just want to focus on one part of it, and that is the hybrid and branch mismatch arrangements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a29932c33b54eeea61ea56a4f53665e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m looking forward to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c09a5b6c2b0c4e9ebd38cc920ba42a67\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: You should be looking forward to it. A hybrid or branch mismatch arrangement can result in a deduction with no corresponding taxable income for the Government, or it could result in a double deduction, so, in both cases, the Government could lose out on revenue. So of course in this legislation, which is there to increase Government revenue, it has sought to deliver a solution in regard to these issues. Now, the solution that\u2019s been proposed in the original bill was a very comprehensive solution that is based on the OECD approach and is very generalistic. The submissions were to have a much more specific regime that took into account the New Zealand environment and how things operate here and how our commercial arrangements are structured. It is good that the committee has taken on board those submissions, in many cases, and delivered some good outcomes that actually have a much more rational approach that takes into account how New Zealand commercial affairs operate, rather than seeking to have a comprehensive approach just because it is easier to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s have a definition of a hybrid and branch mismatch arrangement. That\u2019s a cross-border arrangement that exploits the \u201Cdifferences in the tax treatment of an instrument, entity, or branch under the laws of two or more countries.\u201D I remember doing a member\u2019s bill, which was very similar to this, that looked at the international treatment under the different laws. It was a bill that the Hon Chris Finlayson took great delight in as well, because he was very much involved in that in his legal practice. So, as I say, that can actually potentially lead to a deduction without any corresponding taxable income to the Government, or even in the case of a double deduction, which is even less income coming to the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s have a look at some of these changes that were proposed by submitters and were taken on by the committee and actually accepted\u2014and that\u2019s a rare thing in our select committee process to actually see, but actually it did happen in this case. So the first one that we\u2019ll look at\u2014and this is probably one of the smaller ones\u2014is the transitional period. In this case, this was a submission of the Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand and the Corporate Taxpayers Group, and was accepted in part, subject to officials\u2019 comments. The officials agree that a transitional period would help taxpayers comply with parts of the rules and situations where another country\u2019s rules are implemented part-way through the taxation year, and that\u2019s particularly relevant in the case of the entity-based rules due to possible interaction of other countries\u2019 dual inclusion income rules and New Zealand\u2019s surplus assessable income concept. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo that is very much taxation-speak, but, effectively, to actually see that the officials see that this should be accepted, in part, takes into account that there is a bit of an issue there, and that needs to be recognised and taken into account through this legislation. So a transitional period was submitted. It should be included in the measures in relation to other countries implementing hybrid and branch mismatch rules, particularly Australia\u2014and our biggest trading partner is Australia, so that makes a lot of sense\u2014and the advisers and the committee have come to a point that actually takes partly into account that request.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EAnother one was to widen the corresponding hybrid mismatch legislation. Now, that submission was accepted, and there was an appropriate change made to the definition of hybrid mismatch legislation to clarify that comprehensive anti-hybrid rules are not required. Another one where there has been a submission\u2014in this case, it was a submission from KPMG\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00225f179dfcb60e4fc7b391b6a9244b553e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f179dfcb60e4fc7b391b6a9244b553e\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I will answer a couple of the questions that have been asked, but I would like to say that a number of the questions that have been asked this afternoon already I did actually answer on Tuesday night, and I\u2019m not going to repeat those. The permanent establishment (PE) anti-avoidance rule is very similar to Australia\u2019s multinational anti-avoidance law and one aspect of the UK\u2019s diverted profits tax. It\u2019s also based on a permanent establishment definition\u2014the 2017 OECD model double tax agreement\u2014and New Zealand would not look to widen the scope beyond the OECD definition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ERevenue from the PE anti-avoidance rule and changes from the transfer pricing rule would raise about $50 million per year once fully implemented. The Tax Information Bulletin\u2014of course, the officials will publish administrative guidance in a tax information bill shortly after the legislation is enacted. They do this for every single piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMr Bayly\u2019s not here. Well, I will just mention\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f24b9dac1fd4c20912b2cddc591d4eb\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Answer the question anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b1d8d7e4f674c2ea36f2e37e0a3e397\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I\u2019ll answer the question anyway. The amendment in the bill makes New Zealand\u2019s thin capitalisation rules consistent with Australian rules, and, as we know, Australia has a major mining industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAnd I would just say to the member who spoke last David Bennett and the one before then, Nicola Willis, that to all questions that you asked about whether the officials were right in their advice, my answer to that is of course yes, they are. As we know, you had plenty of time in the Finance and Expenditure Committee to test the veracity of the officials\u2019 advice. So please don\u2019t expect any questions to be answered if you ask me \u201CAre the officials right?\u201D, because, as mentioned, this went through a long, involved select committee process. There were a number of highly complex submissions, which I think the officials did a brilliant job of distilling down into official reports\u2014which I read and I know the members have read as well\u2014and I think you\u2019ve come to a very good spot in this bill. It is a piece of legislation that, obviously, we all support right across this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe officials, I think, have done a sterling job. I\u2019ll reiterate something again that I said on Tuesday night, and that is that in terms of our contribution at the OECD around base erosion and profit shifting measures and legislation and guidance, we absolutely box above our weight. In fact, we are recognised as having experts in certain areas on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo I don\u2019t think anyone can be concerned about the measures in this bill. They have been tested and tested again and\u2014as mentioned\u2014put in front of the select committee, and I know, from the chair of the select committee and also the members, that there were very robust discussions. Some of the parts of the bill were changed because of those discussions, but as a consequence of the select committee process, I think we\u2019ve ended up exactly where we need to be, with a very good piece of legislation that will go a long way to mitigating avoidance by multinational organisations operating in this country. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00222cf3b57b98a84c0b9816727f5818c56f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cf3b57b98a84c0b9816727f5818c56f\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair, for the opportunity to speak to the Taxation (Neutralising Base Erosion and Profit Shifting) Bill. I had such a good time\u2014and I know that everyone who heard me would have also had such a good time\u2014speaking to this the other night that I feel moved to do, again, likewise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to focus on the implications of the mismatch situation that Mr Bennett has already given a pretty good dissertation on in relation to banking groups\u2014so, specifically, clause 29C, which amends the formula for a banking group\u2019s funding debt. The first part of that is simply to add into the formula the punctuation and then the word \u201Cmismatch\u201D\u2014so the punctuation is the \u201C\u2013\u201D, meaning, of course, a minus. So what we have as the net effect of that is that the formula for a reporting bank to calculate the funding debt of its New Zealand banking group is as follows: the total interest plus interest deductions, minus shares, and, now\u2014the new element\u2014minus the mismatch, all divided by days in the quarter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOf course, for that to be meaningful, we need to examine what the mismatch is. I won\u2019t belabour that point because it\u2019s already been covered in very good fashion, indeed, by Mr Bennett, but, essentially, as I understand it from reading the commentary on the bill, a mismatch situation is one that gives rise to a denial of a deduction or assessable income. So whether that\u2019s, effectively, a plus or a minus, it will be factored into the equation\u2014the formula, so-called\u2014to work out the funding debt of a reporting bank as defined in the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWhat then is a mismatch in this context, I hear you ask, Mr Chair, and, indeed, many others are asking that, no doubt. Well, the answer to that is provided in this amendment to the bill, helpfully, so that at subclause (2) we have a new provision, paragraph (cb), whereby \u201Cmismatch\u201D is defined as being \u201Cthe same proportion of the financial value of a debt or financial arrangement included in paragraph (a) or (b)\u201D, which I will just note briefly is that total interest and also the interest deduction that I mentioned earlier. So, having taken that as \u201Cthe proportion of the total interest expenditure under the debt or financial relationship in the income year that is denied\u201D, then one of three scenarios applies. It is either \u201Ca deduction in the income year under section FH 3(2)\u201D, which, broadly speaking, is \u201C(Payments under financial instruments producing deduction without income)\u201D, or is one of the other two scenarios, being \u201Can unrecognised amount\u201D or\u2014broadly speaking, again\u2014providing for the matching of deductions from multi-jurisdictional arrangements, which I think is pretty clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EBut none the less, I do have a couple of questions, and they, I suppose, at a reasonably high level, are seeking from the Minister\u2014who I acknowledge has obviously put in a lot of care and attention and has some expertise in the area\u2014just, essentially, an assurance that this particular mechanism, where we\u2019re adding in a somewhat broad kind of addition to the formula whereby we\u2019re trying to catch any kind of situation where a mismatch would otherwise occur, really fits the sort of comprehensive nature of the bill. Obviously, the whole purpose of the thing is to be as comprehensive as possible and to avoid missing out on any sorts of situations whereby, deliberately or otherwise, an entity or a group of entities with a parent overseas and a New Zealand operation as well might, again, deliberately or inadvertently avoid\u2014not to say \u201Cevade\u201D\u2014their tax obligations. So the first question is whether that aids the comprehensive nature, and the second question goes to alignment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo I just seek the assurance, really, that this will enable us to say that we have arrangements in this respect that are aligned with Australia and other overseas jurisdictions whom we seek to have similar arrangements to\u2014again, for the clarity, for the certainty, and, indeed, for the overall international feeling that these kinds of arrangements should be avoided whereby those who can and should pay tax have been managing to avoid doing so. I think that probably concludes my current questions to the Minister, and I do look forward to the response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u002208052e914d6c49e7abfe8fe3fa9b4e02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208052e914d6c49e7abfe8fe3fa9b4e02\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Assistant Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226843b3dd92b94200b335441c0234a4b6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000612\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 38 in the name of the Hon Stuart Nash, and the following tabled amendment in his name to Part 1, be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000613\u0022\u003Enew section GC 13(6) in clause 36(4), after \u201Cnotifies the taxpayer that\u201D, insert \u201Ca tax audit or investigation has commenced and\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000614\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000615\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c300e20f8bcb40baab89b75c9f43ac20\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to Tax Administration Act 1994\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002219467bcee0f44c3a90f5b32bc694320d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219467bcee0f44c3a90f5b32bc694320d\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Part 2 is a very important component. It really relates to amendments to the Tax Administration Act 1994 and the implications for the IRD. I think this was an area that occupied a lot of the committee\u2019s time. I\u2019m looking across at members of the committee on the other side as well as our own colleagues here. The issue around how the Inland Revenue Department goes about getting information from foreign investors who have money here\u2014invested in companies doing work in New Zealand\u2014was a crucial aspect. There were a number of submissions around it, and I think, of course, all of us accept there is a balance where if you want to operate in New Zealand, you need to comply with New Zealand rules. You need to comply with them in the sense of providing information and making sure that you\u2019re operating appropriately. On the other side, we wanted to make sure that the Inland Revenue\u2019s discretion and obligations and powers were also commensurate with what would be the normal course of action in these types of arrangements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe bill has created an opportunity for the IRD to have greater powers. That was the subject of debate for much of the committee\u2019s time. There were a number of components to that, but particularly in clause 50. We had a number of submissions, actually, a whole host of them, from ASB, BNZ, Chapman Tripp, corporate taxpayers, accounting, law firms\u2014the whole works. Their main point was that in clause 50, which is \u201CSection 17 amended (Information to be furnished on request of Commissioner)\u201D, it talks about the requirements on a multinational to provide information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe first point that these people made was that the proposal was a significant overreach and should not proceed. Of course, that was quite a strong statement. What some of the submitters were saying was that the amendments may be impossible to actually comply with and are not necessary, given existing powers. Another one was that a similar proposal had been rejected previously by another select committee that had looked at this issue and that there was no international precedent for the powers that were proposed in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe IRD had a slightly different perspective, as you\u2019d imagine, because they needed the powers, in their view\u2014and I agreed with this\u2014to be able to properly investigate and challenge tax positions taken by multinationals with New Zealand operations. Of course, the issue was how they should go about getting that information. The point that the IRD made\u2014and it\u2019s true. It\u2019s a fact that multinationals\u2014if you conduct and manage your tax affairs outside of New Zealand, maybe in some tax haven or even in another jurisdiction entirely, that makes it much more difficult for the IRD to get and source that information when you\u2019ve only got what may be a small branch or subsidiary or even just a sales office in New Zealand with just a few people, none of whom have got any accounting experience or tax experience or any tax responsibilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo the issue really for the IRD was: how do you get your hand on that relevant information with the tax position of the multinational, which may be held in another jurisdiction? Of course, on one side of it the IRD was suggesting, you know, a very heavy-handed approach, which was one where they could have powers to require that and to locate that information and bring it back, even though you may be talking to one salesperson in New Zealand, and that\u2019s the difficulty. That was the difficulty with this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOf course, if a multinational was trying to minimise tax\u2014and, you know, we\u2019ve got to be realistic that many multinationals do try and minimise tax, which is not illegal\u2014then, if they\u2019re slow in providing that information or just uncooperative, it makes it very difficult for New Zealand tax authorities. So for us as a committee we were, of course, very mindful that we should give adequate powers but not too much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOne of the proposals suggested was that we should rely on the international tax treaties that New Zealand has. I know many of you will know that we\u2019ve got 72 tax treaties. Of course, most of those are with our good trading partners, but the IRD made a very compelling case to say that to rely on tax treaties to be able to compel foreign multinationals to provide the information is a long bow, because, in effect, we may have a treaty and the IRD, through the Government, may make a request for information on a multinational, but in some cases there is no obligation or ability of that international jurisdiction to require that multinational to comply with our tax treaties and our tax requests. Therefore, again, the hands of the IRD are constrained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other thing around the secrecy laws was that, in fact, in order to meet their new secrecy laws, many countries were establishing new rules around disclosure. It was something that was discussed at the Global Forum on Tax Administration over a long period of time. What the officials would recommend is an amendment to limit the provisions in the bill so it requires the requested information to relate to an investigation of the multinational\u2019s tax position rather than relate to an investigation of a natural person. That\u2019s an important nuance, and I\u2019m not sure everyone might pick up on that nuance, but, from a tax perspective, making sure that it\u2019s limited to the multinational\u2019s tax position rather than a natural person is a very, very important sort of fundamental principle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESimilarly, section 17A of the Tax Administration Act 1994 states that a person cannot be excused from complying with a court order to provide information simply because providing the information would subject the taxpayer to a fine, penalty, or conviction, because in some cases, obviously, people want to hide behind rules and regulations or\u2014even if they\u2019re a listed company to say, as an example, \u201CLook, we cannot comply with New Zealand\u2019s request for information, because we\u2019re operating under the London Stock Exchange rules and, therefore, to divulge that information would breach confidentiality.\u201D, which will impinge on the rights of that company and the obligations on the directors of that company. So, again, the nuance around this was really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think the other thing was that we just noted the practicality of trying to address this issue. I think inland revenue believes that where we ended up was a balancing act, and I\u2019ve got to say I think it was to some extent shaped by the position of the select committee members. As I said before, a lot of these proposals around the heavy-handedness have been previously rejected by the Finance and Expenditure Committee. So I think the issue is: how do you do it in a way that\u2019s appropriate and doesn\u2019t overtly give the IRD too much power?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think it raises the issue of criminal liability and civil liability and also the question of penalties. The Act actually now provides for penalties of $100,000, and the big issue is around criminal and civil liability. In that context, I think we also had quite a significant debate around that. So if we are talking in respect of the New Zealand representative, the idea is that if you are going to require a representative in New Zealand who represents a multinational, to what extent can you require them to actually make and facilitate their provision of that tax advice to the IRD? I think that is a fundamental issue, and when the bill was originally introduced, it included both criminal and civil liabilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, I\u2019m going to run out of time on this, but I think that\u2019s an issue that I really want to listen to the Minister\u2019s view on because I think the issue around that is a very fundamental tenet of having a successful treaty and tax system that deals with our base erosion and profit shifting obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad5d40ee373d4ca9acc093a23744dbc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad5d40ee373d4ca9acc093a23744dbc8\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure for me to take a brief call on Part 2 of the Taxation (Neutralising Base Erosion and Profit Shifting) Bill. I want to talk specifically to two provisions, new section 78G, \u201CCountry-by-country report from large multinational group\u201D, in clause 52, and new section 139AB, \u201CPenalty for members of large multinational group failing to provide information\u201D, in clause 53.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe reason I raise those two is I\u2019ve been worried\u2014very, very worried indeed\u2014since we completed the select committee process, because, collectively, we put a lot of work into Part 1, and I\u2019m just wondering now whether we did delve into Part 2 deeply enough to fully understand the implications. But I know that the Minister will give us some good answers, and I want to congratulate the Minister again for the way he handled his questions through Part 1 on Tuesday night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe first one, new section 78G, talks about the requirement for a large multinational with an ultimate owner\u2014that is, a New Zealand resident\u2014to provide the commissioner a report on tax information etc., etc. So does this apply to the likes of Google and Facebook? I assume the answer to that is that it definitely does. Then I just want the Minister to think about what\u2019s the likely reaction to a chief executive in Palo Alto, Silicon Valley, getting a letter from the Commissioner of Inland Revenue saying \u201CPlease supply us with this sort of information.\u201D, which looks to me like it\u2019s fairly broad-based. It could be information as to the tax structure they have established in any of the 50 or 100 other countries they operate in. What\u2019s going to be the likely first response? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EIf he or she takes it seriously, he or she may get involved and make sure the answer\u2019s given, but that leads me to the second point that\u2019s raised\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb1429f1da7644e5bcca3cf246ad6e96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb1429f1da7644e5bcca3cf246ad6e96\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the right honourable member, but it has come time for me to report progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported progress on the Taxation (Neutralising Base Erosion and Profit Shifting) Bill and no progress on the Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180614d65e8752ea274966b65fa9aa5b5f5a46000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.56 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"