"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002229f9f78a8ef04c91a0c847668d63c5c1\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 31 JULY 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222da719915f744f7baa9d2e1ce3b87273\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 31 JULY 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c3ad5443f294a90b8750c338bd72bfa\u0022\u003EPrayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002287826a1d2c304399b65451716181d4f4\u0022\u003EPrayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00228d60ed6a5f934eeb9b8dc63d8fa082d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d60ed6a5f934eeb9b8dc63d8fa082d8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, in order to celebrate Cook Islands Language Week, I asked the Hon Alfred Ngaro to recite a prayer today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca1bbe3a0fed4737b815ae3118340579\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca1bbe3a0fed4737b815ae3118340579\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Te Atua Mana, te akameitaki atu nei matou iakoe no toou takinga meitaki taau i riringi mai ki runga ia matou. Te akaruke nei matou i to matou tu tangata, te akamaara nei matou i te ariki vaine, e te pure nei matou kia arataki koe i ta matou uriuri anga manako, kia rave matou I ta matou angaanga i roto i teia ngutuare na roto i te pakari, te tuatua tika e te akaaka no te meitaki e te au o to matou basileia Nu Tireni, na roto i te ingoa o Iesu Mesia, Amene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4b420f680ac4e1d90bbcae914d351ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4b420f680ac4e1d90bbcae914d351ad\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Meitaki\u2014thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002218c0fd1a95e14fc295239efc5cace1ae\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002264bb11d32c574f138edc6db8794891fb\u0022\u003EUnited Kingdom\u2014Secretary of State for Scotland\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00223a9e06471167412c9a346b25778eda98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a9e06471167412c9a346b25778eda98\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure that members would wish to welcome the Rt Hon David Mundell, Secretary of State for Scotland, Parliament of the United Kingdom, and his delegation, who are present in the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f9863d410064513bb33dfe8dca581b6\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a3a9b9f70c2420d8a37c5c368da1cc1\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022677bc4dde6f64632a96c33668f899d48\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Business Confidence and Trans-Tasman Migration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfbb8addba2f4d029b2cd1a727ae9e94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfbb8addba2f4d029b2cd1a727ae9e94\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s policies and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd50b6e35b1e411684a1ba91a74c0e15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd50b6e35b1e411684a1ba91a74c0e15\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E The answer to that question is most definitely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226f72c04ee4b429e9f675759fccb4462\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that New Zealand has fallen from the second-highest level of business confidence in all of the OECD in 2016 to having the second-lowest under his Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246c6726d9ae043ee970cba8057c415b7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: What I am aware of, and so are my colleagues, is that there are half a million enterprises in this country\u2014490,000 were not asked their opinion; 1,000 were. That\u2019s the quality of that survey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e3d2b520dd24ac59ec13ba63613928c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen the latest ANZ business confidence numbers released today, which show that business confidence has declined by a further five points?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222df296dc72db4fbaac5dea84d4abf859\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It is not surprising that the ANZ, despite having record profits at the moment, has a chairman who\u2019s been talking down the economy nevertheless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bccb0d9485124c27a86f5a5bd503a948\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that at the moment we have the worst business confidence in our country since the global financial crisis a decade ago, and, if so, what will he do to revise his Government\u2019s disastrous policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213ffc416521d4bf68dc041b65c865d42\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! Before the member answers, I am going\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022943a5c34a8a143bea373fe88933bbcaf\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m allowed to have an \u201Cif so\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eb96163d001485ca7a0c523473bada9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I will stand up to deal with it if the Leader of the Opposition is going to interject when I\u2019m ruling. I\u2019m going to let the question go but warn the Leader of the Opposition, and I think he knows exactly what for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b2ca27c90604f0e8705a54df7226912\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: As they say in one of the home countries, those comments are balderdash. And, more importantly, the IMF has refuted them in their very confident prediction as to where this Government is taking the growth of our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267fe23f9122748bea73f64d42b712984\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t the only credible explanation for the worst business confidence numbers since the global financial crisis directly the Government\u2019s policies and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d262b413558d4343910e2cc32a2017f9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: As much as that member would like to predicate his future on turning down and arguing down the economy, that is most definitely not going to happen\u2014either the economy going down or him having a future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220b883d80c8642608e4a82a0889d0271\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, is it the case that business confidence in New Zealand is at a 10-year low and business confidence in Australia is at a 30-year high?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d1a6d8d884b4781b3b0a56b097e7556\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The record of these confidence surveys has this to reflect upon: when the economy was running at 3.2 percent over a period of nine years, the confidence indicators were all down from those elite business people, and when the economy was running, under National, at an average of 1.9 percent over nine years, the confidence rate was up. In short, you\u2019ve got 1,000 of half a million enterprises being surveyed, and that is not the kind of elitism we promote in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8ac841e7ef04bada550f0cbf40af8fa\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the best the Prime Minister can do to explain away the variety of business confidence surveys and give no real answers to this House or New Zealanders about what is happening at the moment in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df3bbe60fb464481b270f9fb9174d5ba\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I have to be frank to that member and say no, I can do much better, but I don\u2019t have to get out of first gear facing him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f731863cdc384a1d8672d4dec8d610d2\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that GDP growth per capita has fallen behind Australia for the first time in several years, and what are the Government\u2019s policies and actions in relation to turning that around?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247a38391460b41a78890767a7b07e8bc\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has a tranche of explosive policies that we intend to put into place, or are already having in place, and we can see a rapid turn-around in our country\u2019s economy because we\u2019re based, in terms of this Government\u2019s plan, on production and exports and real wealth, not mass immigration and consumption.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022659842a1b8014c3ca3eb78784039888a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that net migration to Australia has gone from a net 32,000 leaving for Australia in 2008 to a net inflow to New Zealand in 2017, and, if so, will he consider it a failure if net migration to Australia does not continue in this positive direction under his Government\u2019s watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298d46000436347c6b1492c319c76f8df\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Again, those stats are false. The net\u2014[Interruption] Well, they can all laugh, and maybe fly a white flag later, but the reality is the net trend began in mid-2015 and that party over there is responsible for it. We\u2019re going to turn it around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d756078e9a374a82b12fde6e50a25e6c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What is his Government doing to keep ambitious young New Zealanders in New Zealand given that yesterday in Australia, a new job in the mining sector was advertised every six minutes, while here in New Zealand his Government has banned oil and gas exploration as well as mining on conservation land?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c896de43f614e66858a53d416d63430\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has not banned oil and gas exploration, and whatever that industry called \u201Cmoining\u201D is\u2014I\u2019m having difficulty trying to understand it\u2014we\u2019ve not banned that either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214e18c17803c4305acf38b794e7ce009\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reality that when New Zealand has the worst business confidence\u2014which has a flow-on effect to investment and jobs\u2014in a decade since the global financial crisis, all he can do is come down to the House and make jokes about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa6dfad2e8b84a63b6ce866eb9636ec6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I can\u2019t win the jokes stakes; I\u2019m looking at one, in terms of his ambition. But I want to tell that member that they can be as mealy-mouthed and as doomsday as they like, but they are not going to succeed in getting up the polls or getting back at the next election. If they want to help, we\u2019d be grateful for whatever help they might give, but given their last nine years of abysmal performance, I don\u2019t think so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8feaa5209da4e11914ac9313bfcba8a\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. If it\u2019s parliamentary to refer to a member as being a joke, would it not equally be parliamentary to refer to a member as being drunk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9038e2be9c645df8c4d13cd0c3b507c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: My view is that one is a matter of fact and the other is a matter of opinion. If the member is seriously suggesting the latter in the House and he is inaccurate, he is making a gross breach of privilege.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297ac578160274f19bd13853921f980b8\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb806b69897b47adbb4f23d7c26df0f6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, there is no point of order. The member will resume his seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279feba3820ff43ef95fd519e4ad2698f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m entitled to an explanation, surely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a69a0239a0c47a095aa9a35b402de28\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e3a0ca11816e4a4b839b4dcd6f90ed9b\u0022\u003EInternational Economy\u2014Impact on the New Zealand Economy and Outlook\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00220f3a1adcb9b7438499d57c26be304d13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f3a1adcb9b7438499d57c26be304d13\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What impact is global economic conditions having on the New Zealand economy, and what changes, if any, are required to respond to these conditions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00225dea39f10daf4ce0ba36790933827d14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225dea39f10daf4ce0ba36790933827d14\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The IMF recently reported that it projects global growth to reach 3.9 percent in 2018 and 2019, which represents a solid continuation of growth forecast. However, the outlook is not without risk, in the form of financial and trade tensions and political uncertainty. While no one is suggesting that there is an imminent risk to the international economy, I would note the comments from the chair of the ANZ bank, Sir John Key, who highlighted the significant impact of the global outlook on the New Zealand economy and that a correction would eventually occur. As a relatively small, open economy that is reliant on international trade, New Zealand is always vulnerable to changes in the international outlook. Therefore, in order to ensure our economy is resilient to such threats, we need to remain fiscally careful but also make the changes to diversify our export markets and shift the drivers of our economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2331659ad0c4a38b1152b02ddb91d10\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: What further action does he intend to address student exploitation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291390d3a51de4c65ae1ca27ae207fc9c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cff98e8e86c4702ad5f119e104e7c96\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: What does the changing global outlook mean for fiscal management?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ae51be139d34c8bb5c8d0ccbac440e7\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to comment on immigration one day, but not today. We\u2019re demonstrating our commitment to fiscal responsibility through our adherence to the Budget responsibility rules. We\u2019ve always said that if there were a major shock to the global economy, we would adjust the rules accordingly. However, that is not the situation that we are facing today. Under these rules, we are reducing net debt to 20 percent of GDP within five years of taking office, delivering sustainable surpluses across the economic cycle, restarting contributions to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, and making sure that unemployment continues its downward track to 4 percent. By sticking to these commitments, we will do the investment in critical public services and make sure that New Zealand is positioned to respond to any shock or downturn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022070ea5942be242beacdef84c45775fe9\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Business Confidence and Government Policies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc70894d57104466be8b9613b1258483\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc70894d57104466be8b9613b1258483\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he have confidence in the Government\u2019s management of the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022c43ada377e6246b8bb7c585f079501f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c43ada377e6246b8bb7c585f079501f5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea9c8f4033b34b4d8b4044b5e16898dd\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does he take it as a signal of confidence in the Government\u2019s economic management that New Zealand has fallen from having the second-highest level of business confidence in the OECD in 2016 to having the second-lowest under this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7bffc0719634e0e86e2e757baf900e2\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The OECD report the member refers to shows that New Zealand\u2019s business confidence is 0.46 of 1 percent below the long-run average, at a score of 99.54 percent. So the Opposition is now bemoaning the fact that 0.46 of 1 percent off the long-run average is somehow a major disaster. I would point the member to consumer confidence, which is strong; employee confidence, which is strong; and unemployment, which is going down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022413c71e358384b80a55413d4b8b99d9b\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Well, does he take it as a signal of confidence in the Government\u2019s economic management that today\u2019s ANZ business confidence survey showed business confidence has today fallen even further, to negative 45 percent and own activity\u2014which he quotes so often\u2014has fallen again, to its lowest level since 2009?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc9c9fc1f7d249c6ad081d7f5bed1be6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: There is a range of factors that affect business confidence, including international conditions, which a commentator I heard in the weekend opining at great length about the importance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb8294c5f6224033962cf41aeb9bafb2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Who was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e7ebaff9df54dcd90a50629037e4681\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The chair of the ANZ Bank, the person who got the most publicity out of the National Party conference. He said international conditions were the issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a5cf8fc9b6f47b5b887449f7d787eb1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Who was this resident expert from the ANZ Bank, and what is his past political record? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1fc6d3a207f42a1addfe637b1b4288f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The person was Sir John Key, and I note that he also made the comment when he spoke that the previous, unsustainable drivers of growth\u2014namely, housing speculation and immigration\u2014were waning, and that it was a question of what replaces those factors. It\u2019s a pity he didn\u2019t ask that question over the last nine years, but this Government is getting on with making the changes to be more productive and more sustainable in our economic growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c882369b7e364ff1aba0e033d8cb1ea0\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Well, does he take it as a signal of confidence in the Government\u2019s economic management that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2019s national construction pipeline released yesterday showed infrastructure investment projections are dramatically down on last year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8a532844bfc40439a9a66572928e03f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The infrastructure pipeline methodology has changed, as the report authors noted themselves. This Government has a pipeline of infrastructure projects\u2014$28 billion worth of transport projects\u2014coming down the line. Building consents today are 8 percent up on the same month last year. There is plenty of good activity going on. Of course there are some concerns among the business community about access to skilled staff and international conditions. We\u2019ll keep working with them. But on this side of the House, we have a big job to do to shift away from an economy that was based on housing speculation and population growth. The member should listen to John Key. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe63381371bc44af884aa5e6b5b1084f\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does he take it as a signal of confidence in the Government\u2019s economic management that the level of capital raised from initial public offerings on the New Zealand stock exchange has fallen from $480 million in the previous period to just $20 million in the first half of this year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257e683e00f874fa3967dad03a1af8b03\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have those numbers in front of me, but I do note that the New Zealand stock exchange has been at record highs in recent times. So while the member can stand on the sidelines trying to talk the economy down, the message that businesses around New Zealand are giving me is that they have a lot of activity. They\u2019re looking for more skilled staff, and we\u2019re getting on with making sure that we provide those skilled staff to them, unlike in the last nine years of under-investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022764b4bd33e7e42888f38d41918b2ffa9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If any of those stats being quoted at the Minister were correct, how come New Zealand has the lowest recent record unemployment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022768eaf307ffe40868ed0e0ec7c20c7be\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s an interesting question. What I do note is that the priority that this Government is giving to investing in the regions of New Zealand through the Provincial Growth Fund, through R \u0026amp; D, and through lifting the skills of New Zealanders is going to make a big difference as we get down to our goal of 4 percent unemployment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207bf5059ba28400a9c2ee3b37abd5aa9\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in light of all the evidence showing that even with our current strong trade conditions, the domestic economy has begun to stall under this Government, what is he actually going to do to promote economic growth? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d4fca1c33f14554921c05604138d26e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what we\u2019re doing is transitioning away from an economy that was based on population growth and housing speculation. That member might think that that\u2019s a sustainable growth path; it\u2019s not. We have to actually invest in the future of our regions through the Provincial Growth Fund, through our research and development tax incentive, through the Green Investment Fund, and through lifting the skills of New Zealanders. On this side of the House, we\u2019re getting on with the job of making that transition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f71432eaad72442e85f63e68a81e47d2\u0022\u003EEducation\u2014Partnership Schools and M\u0101ori Achievement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3217a21650e40fab7b7c4fe53071f3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3217a21650e40fab7b7c4fe53071f3b\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education (M\u0101ori Education): Does he stand by all his statements and actions in regard to M\u0101ori education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022414896b6b59f42978de570b263623799\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022414896b6b59f42978de570b263623799\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Associate Minister of Education (M\u0101ori Education)):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context that they were made and taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225536633ba5e2407db48e37b324c6ee27\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What is his response to Sir Toby Curtis, who said in relation to Chris Hipkins, \u201CThe Minister\u2019s carrot-and-stick approach may work on his M\u0101ori MP colleagues who remain curiously silent.\u201D and \u201CI am here waiting patiently, for our M\u0101ori Labour MP, to whisper just one kind word of support.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af3bd126bc8e48949dc9b9e200347a40\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: The issue here is making sure that all M\u0101ori students across the whole system have access to quality education, not just half of 1 percent of the M\u0101ori students who attend compulsory education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274cb4771b7c04c64a807641da01baf41\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t count.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276d1be4382ca4c9387c1d9b4e0754a2d\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I said, if the member listened, the emphasis is on all M\u0101ori students, and what the Hon Chris Hipkins has done has invited M\u0101oridom, through the education summits, to actually help co-design the whole system, not just a fraction of the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022356642e965f14cf5a55964da763f5ddc\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: So when does he intend to stand up for the achievement of M\u0101ori students who don\u2019t want their partnership schools forced back into the State school system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022959227e4870045a3b6822ed275826444\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Those schools who are now partnership schools next year will have their doors open. The same people who are running those schools will be running them. The same curriculum that was being taught will be taught. The children will wear the same uniforms. Very little is going to change except for a few administration issues. Now, let me tell you this: in 2006 and 2007, I was part of a group with the ASB Community Trust to help to establish the A Company academy that\u2019s now part of Te K\u0101pehu Whet\u016B, in Whangarei. That school ran for three or four years highly successfully, and they weren\u2019t a partnership school. They will still be able to run highly successfully when they transition to the State system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da597b9d99dd48df8542ff81ad93729b\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that the very school he has just mentioned will, by having to go back into the State sector, now have a higher teacher-student ratio and will lose mentors who they can currently employ because they are a partnership school and have some more freedom of funding, and those students have been achieving better because of it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7eeaef2364a44c29f0fa68fcbca674c\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: No. And what the member has just illustrated is the fact that the charter schools were over-resourced in comparison to State schools, which is exactly what the State system was saying about charter schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022540c909fcb7a4002843cafbf359b35a1\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What is his response then to the school who have today made it clear that entering the State system will cause them to lose key staff, and that \u201Cmentoring of senior students by non-teaching staff had been a crucial element in the students\u2019 academic achievements.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4e0f20eec364e90917b84a26d88127f\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, we want all schools\u2014all M\u0101ori students\u2014to be successful, not just a handful of schools. And, as I\u2019ve said, the changes that the Hon Chris Hipkins is making to the education system in unwinding the nine years of neglect from the last Government are going to make a massive difference for all M\u0101ori students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f25ba2e2ac474ee2826db0694fc9ab7c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If M\u0101ori schools was a political preoccupation, how come Hato Petera College got wound down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c3e269d823845b49705dcdcfb461e73\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it\u2019s very sad what happened to Hato Petera College under the previous Government, and now it\u2019s got to the stage\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f647be5da15a49c588ee5bd679374b3e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbaa438f5e6747c3b6a92c175fafe1b6\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f986b02b40e74dfbbf61f0df3a7a6dbf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think I can deal with it. I was hoping that the member might answer in an area for which he has some responsibility, but he doesn\u2019t for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ca2827d6253d41c2acb877b28070cfeb\u0022\u003EEducation\u2014Teacher to Pupil Ratios\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u00220c822dfd20754b59ade5dab213dafb94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c822dfd20754b59ade5dab213dafb94\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What plans, if any, does he have to ensure more students have more time with teachers, and students with more complex needs get access to the support they need?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002282c6cec1b53f4c5bbe8db36e582613db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282c6cec1b53f4c5bbe8db36e582613db\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Can I thank the member for the question. My first plan is to address the serious teacher shortage that we inherited from the previous Government due to the 40 percent reduction in the number of people training to be teachers during the tenure of the last Government. In December, I announced an initial teacher supply package. This was significantly boosted again in this year\u2019s Budget. Teachers have been freed up to spend more time with students through the scrapping of national standards, and our work to reduce red tape and compliance is ongoing. Students with more complex needs have benefited from the biggest increase in learning support funding in over a decade, while those in early childhood education have benefited from the first across-the-board funding increase in over a decade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280fa76b1f0944004b4bbb7ac8ded204f\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that children will get better educational outcomes through more teacher time if the student to teacher ratio is reduced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f968f60639a64378b4d242868bef4490\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I seem to recall making that argument when the previous Government was trying to make class sizes bigger. The biggest challenge we have with regard to teacher-student ratios at the moment is having enough teachers to fill the existing vacancies that we have in our schools because of the 40 percent reduction in the number training to be teachers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c400aafd30b4f86a07a70d3ddf33be7\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked a very simple, yes or no question: does he believe educational outcomes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221956946229df415bab8fa062b9022966\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume her seat. She knows\u2014she\u2019s been here a number of years\u2014members cannot require a yes or no answer. The member got an answer, and if she listened, she would\u2019ve heard it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7f47f96d88a4604b898c629a57e2622\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Why has he prioritised spending $2.8 billion on his fees-free and tertiary policy over smaller class sizes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022386cdd04a1244f74b9c49c943fbff691\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the assertion in the member\u2019s question. The Government has committed to reducing and eliminating financial barriers to participation in education at all levels. The moves that we are taking in early childhood education will help to ease the pressure on parents. The Government is committed to dealing with the chronic underfunding that has afflicted our school system, and the increase in funding for tertiary education will of course benefit, amongst others, the future teaching workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223770634ebba4f578609f621f0b92dce\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: In light of his comments regarding teacher shortages, have actual primary class sizes, on average, increased or decreased in the last eight months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229196360176a640c581ffa50047f267b0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The current Government has made no changes to the funding formula for teachers, and therefore\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221408b48d74254491858815fba178749c\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Actual class sizes now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a7002a4a31d4287941d81c51c2814a1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, with regard to actual class sizes, the previous Government didn\u2019t collect any data on actual class sizes, so it\u2019s very difficult to draw a conclusion as to whether actual class sizes have changed. Of course, the decisions around how many pupils are in an individual class rest with the individual schools. The previous Government didn\u2019t record that. We haven\u2019t started recording that. As part of the workforce strategy work that this Government has put in place\u2014something the previous Government didn\u2019t do anything about\u2014that may be one of the things we consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f33518d2c2944cbb98ed9beb3c6821d\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any proposals to increase the amount of time teachers can spend with our youngest learners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227935fc71bc164f10be039fc4c3ebed7a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, indeed I have. I\u2019ve seen a proposal to change the teacher-child ratios for under-two-year-olds from 1:5 to 1:4. That proposal was put forward some time ago, and a decade later these children are still waiting for the National Party to deliver on their last promise to lower student-teacher ratios.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d0cd56541354180abe4fc45b0059777\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Will he guarantee that he will deliver smaller class sizes in primary schools in the term of this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dae6cf9aef84e78bbb45729efd49d25\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The commitments the Government\u2019s made regarding teachers have been set out in the Speech from the Throne and the various coalition agreements that we have. We have a commitment to putting forward an education workforce strategy, and that will be considered as part of that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002295ff9cea031649bd8db14cdf4295a032\u0022\u003EEconomic Programme\u2014Business Confidence and Government Policies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002218bb6823708b4855b9b16198ee1686bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218bb6823708b4855b9b16198ee1686bf\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: Does he stand by the Government\u2019s economic development strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002220275a36a7354802923ed72cd0d47f3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220275a36a7354802923ed72cd0d47f3e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256c2d7da93824ca19769060c31323be2\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: What is the strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022027c8465216d4befa48e5d0082b8f5bc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, last time I outlined the strategy, the Speaker told me that I listed too many important aspects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bf89e5da3c54fcfa4b62bd932edf253\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230221d975d044c5ebe97988ab61b918a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: But, in summary, we aim to diversify our export base, turning our economy from volume to value; we\u2019re changing the investment signals so that more capital goes to the productive export economy rather than unproductive speculation; and we want equality of opportunity and more equal opportunities and outcomes, no matter where you live in New Zealand\u2014that\u2019s called regional development. This is in stark contrast to the Opposition\u2019s growth model of weak per capita growth, housing speculation, poorly targeted immigration\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271d1cc8531ff46cb9e76ea3150b9bb6e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member is finished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c89e83f963d6404e9a5aa299c6fa0e6b\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: So, if by \u201Cchanging the investment signals\u201D he means introducing a capital gains tax, how does he think taxing small-business owners more by taxing capital gains in building up their business as well as profits every year will promote economic development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fd8fd5a5d2246748053035222ccb0a3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not what I mean. But it is absolutely, patently clear that New Zealand has to do something different from the last Government, given that the last Government had an ambition of increasing exports from 30 to 40 percent of GDP and, in nine years, trashed the economy and took exports back to 27 percent of GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022104dfa5943624de39df59bc74ddf0b42\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he still think that the ANZ survey of business confidence is junk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d2ecc8c9df74d97afcbdadd3463f1ac\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bb055467ffc47718941ba9ee5ac2b3b\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not what he said last time. When he says that business confidence surveys are down because business leaders and employers don\u2019t like the Labour Party, can he blame them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294fc7c338e6b4671b6373c075572d8e7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not quite what I said. Although I haven\u2019t read the latest ANZ survey, I\u2019m sure it\u2019s no different from the earlier ones. It\u2019s a survey of the emotion of CEOs, and it\u2019s about their sentiment. It\u2019s not about rising jobs, increasing incomes, and increasing surpluses. In respect of the other survey that was noted by the Opposition today, which is the OECD one, I note that that\u2019s based on 2017 hard data, and that their company report notes New Zealand\u2019s high-level costs, neglect of the regions, undeveloped capital markets, wealth inequality, and significant infrastructure problems. There are some challenges that we need to overcome after nine years of neglect by the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022063df077e7764d00b4181e8b6625441f\u0022\u003ESchools\u2014Teacher Supply\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022362121cb7d0f47c4892cb62912a00397\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022362121cb7d0f47c4892cb62912a00397\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What action, if any, is the Government taking to increase the supply of teachers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002231331e373b9c4bdb8ca364124e3670c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231331e373b9c4bdb8ca364124e3670c1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E This year\u2019s Budget provided $370 million to fund 1,500 more teaching places by 2021, to meet population growth. This is on top of a $9.5 million teacher supply package that I announced in December and an additional $20 million set aside in this Budget to continue that package over the next four years. Every teacher supply initiative that this Government is committed to has been fully detailed and fully costed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7d44bb5dc15475bada300af5716087f\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: What progress to date has the Government made to increase the number of teachers since it came into power nine months ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223ba9df897a3428ebe791d6aa65c773f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has funded nearly 900 teacher education refresher places, removing the cost barriers for refresher training so that teachers can continue teaching or return to teaching faster. We expanded the Auckland Beginning Teacher Project to 60 places in 2018, with another 60 in 2019. We expanded the Voluntary Bonding Scheme to encourage new teachers to work in decile 1, 2, and 3 Auckland schools and nationwide in identified subjects, such as M\u0101ori medium. More than 300 teachers who started their roles in 2018 will be eligible for a payment after completing three consecutive years of employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022164a99c8040a40619653e2cd76d50cd8\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: What steps is he taking to lift the status of the teaching profession?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022119a0276c0194101b03f9f4a75ba9d38\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Our Government is very proud to be progressing legislation to give teachers back the right to elect their representatives to their own professional body. I look forward to the increased support I anticipate for this bill following National\u2019s newfound sudden respect for teachers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eec9d35b22874cea9c659df379dea843\u0022\u003EImmigration\u2014Exploitation of Students and Fraudulent Visas\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022421abe7f0e60445a829402a8ac3d559f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022421abe7f0e60445a829402a8ac3d559f\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Does he stand by all his statements, policies, and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00226337406e1fd644a794d9595f7e362092\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226337406e1fd644a794d9595f7e362092\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they were given, made, and taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b88c5f5fbd24d5ba5cac5ada1caf89d\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: When he was advised by officials of organised fraud by Sri Lankan student visa applicants, why did he take no action to establish how widespread the fraud was?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc63035b7a15467993068e00d289715e\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, because Immigration New Zealand was already in the process of taking that action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227110ba56635e4c3fb2520591b37b13cf\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: What was that action?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208cf76261bae4aa6bc29c1291a6fa159\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: That action was to manually review the 895 applications that were received through the Mumbai office for visas from Sri Lankan nationals during 2017 and see which ones of those involved the finance company in question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1a32b657c0b454089b401603ae9a043\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What action has he taken to address issues of international student exploitation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022022b6a7209f54af7bff199eff9d2cc4f\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: The best remedy is to ensure that Immigration New Zealand has the resources it needs to address these issues. When I became Minister, I discovered that the Immigration New Zealand memorandum account was $50 million in deficit. What we are doing as a Government is consulting on immigration fees and levies to ensure that the system is properly funded and resourced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4bdbd2066f24fb1a9afd035db57d73e\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What further action does he intend to take to address student exploitation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad04c46a97fe4628a5112ee246fd4014\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: We have recently consulted on post-study work rights proposals. These changes are intended to maintain the quality of New Zealand\u2019s education industry and reduce the exploitation of migrant students. The results of this consultation will be announced shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231aee83c943f44b7b7f9eac42a7a6cd7\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: What action will be taken against students found to have committed fraud on their applications?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b04b3a1d77c24b368a956d6e9acd6dc8\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the challenge, of course, is to verify whether students used the finance company\u2019s services fraudulently. The challenge here is that going back and retrospectively reviewing those applications requires a source to verify that financial information. The one and only source is the fraudulent finance company. So what Immigration New Zealand is doing is identifying which students may be involved, and should those students seek to extend their visa in New Zealand, those visas will be scrutinised carefully and it will be made absolutely certain that they have the source of funds they need to support themselves in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022441c9bf19d7e44348bb48ab89d311194\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: What signal does that answer send to future applicants who might be tempted to lie on their applications and suffer not one single negative consequence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ba6c0e256b547429361a87137dd74bb\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the future for Immigration New Zealand is that the applications that involve that finance company will no longer be accepted and that the patterns of behaviour that were detected when this fraud was identified are being looked for across the immigration system to find other opportunities to detect fraud early. What we need to make sure of is that this immigration system has integrity. I am focused on the future, not on cleaning up the mess that occurred under that member\u2019s watch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed40d475a5ab471980ce64b78b6cd5a6\u0022\u003EElectoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill\u2014Commentary\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00225ce4fd8480bf494cae931ecb44ba652a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ce4fd8480bf494cae931ecb44ba652a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does he agree with the statement on the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill made by Greens co-leader Marama Davidson on Friday that, \u201Cit is a bill which is undemocratic\u201D, and that this bill threatens democracy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002281b7c6c412414007a5689e4443e47e2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281b7c6c412414007a5689e4443e47e2d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana e Te Vaa Tuatua. Marama Davidson is free to express her view, but this Government has agreed on one thing about this bill, and that is that the fundamental democratic principle is that the electorate decides the make-up of Parliament, not individual MPs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222e5951e21b049179ae7c9a5fb220149\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that a majority of this Parliament oppose his bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ad1be0e84a040d397fdbb98faa8f324\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7e4429c0e7443778950073eb15c1f10\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the statement by founding Green co-leader, the late Rod Donald, on a previous electoral integrity bill, that it was \u201Cthe most draconian, obnoxious, anti-democratic, insulting piece of legislation ever\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dcabf9dbf59460c9725a637f028111d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fef992ac4da4c6aa6dac387ea2579cd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think I know where the member\u2019s going. I want to hear the end of the question first to see if it does get into order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbf5aafa0eee4e14a700aa43975ee620\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the statement by founding Green co-leader, the late Rod Donald, on a previous electoral integrity bill, that is was\u2014and I quote from Hansard\u2014\u201Cthe most draconian, obnoxious, anti-democratic, insulting piece of legislation ever inflicted on Parliament\u201D, which is now to become law, only with the votes of the Green Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feff36fffde344cda96a530836bf0dea\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member is asking a question\u2014for which the Minister cannot be responsible\u2014about a previous bill that came into this House something like 17 years ago and then seeks to get it within the Standing Orders by mentioning the current legislation, and he can\u2019t do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229df206d5b96548a986ce76bcd199875d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d1a674ba4274f5596c47f6b1803ab18\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am prepared to deal with it. The question is about a matter of policy rather than the detail of a particular bill, and the Minister is responsible for the policy. He will answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e26ca81bca334a1f8ca6b41cd8918595\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Apart from not understanding what \u201Cabnoxious\u201D means, the answer to the question is no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264ac761b84994158a5bf8bcfcf76af81\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does his bill address the situation where MPs state one thing but vote for the exact opposite, and does that fit within the definition of integrity in his bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc2e75a6523249b68d1bf4be06fcb277\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The circumstance that that member has just described applied to National Party MPs in the Greens\u2019 medicinal cannabis member\u2019s bill earlier this year, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c399f3671054218be2ccf146b83f4d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question is not about the medicinal cannabis bill. It is about the electoral integrity bill for which he has responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022305e25b7c94f43c9b8b21dc3ccfca727\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And if the member made that clear, rather than asking a general question, then I would have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225554909329f349ccab1d3b727f4447f1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d be happy to restate the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223535521fb83a4bc0aa1f8d587998eb68\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not going to ask the member to ask it again. Andrew Little, start your answer again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022218c79fda3294c28b7e5baa6834ba966\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The circumstance that that member just referred to was precisely the circumstance that applied to a number of National MPs in the debate over the Green Party\u2019s member\u2019s bill on medicinal cannabis earlier this year. Notwithstanding that, I don\u2019t agree with the proposition that that member has just put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec0a19c672634f88a81aa9a9699ccab0\u0022\u003ESocial Development, Ministry\u2014Industry Partnerships\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00225804e0112d4549bf9943b89f7a8fdcf2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225804e0112d4549bf9943b89f7a8fdcf2\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: What recent announcements has she made that highlight this Government\u2019s industry partnership-focused approach to employment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002295c18fe2214c4367b64fbfa0b7876376\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295c18fe2214c4367b64fbfa0b7876376\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana e Te Vaa Tuatua. Last Thursday, I announced the launch of the online interactive tool Restaurant Tycoon that allows small and medium business owners to learn about the services offered by the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), BNZ, and Xero. This tool is the result of hard work from MSD\u2019s industry partnership team, in conjunction with BNZ and Xero, to provide new and innovative employment opportunities for MSD clients. Restaurant Tycoon is one of a series developed by Joy Business Academy and will be sent to almost 500,000 small to medium business customers of BNZ and Xero. Through this tool, these customers will learn how they can work with MSD for free to recruit staff, access relevant products and services, and utilise mentoring and support when hiring an MSD client.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd96233493c74168b35761402be93d9d\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the industry partnership between MSD, BNZ, and Xero important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299411210d7a14cd5bbb961acd3b79fec\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The online interactive tool developed out of this industry partnership not only provides small and medium businesses with a better way to engage with MSD; it also provides MSD clients with the opportunity to explore self-employment and business ownership. This tool can be used by clients who are interested in starting up their own business so they can see how this can be done and learn important tricks of the trade. This tool is also just one of a series being developed. Interactive tools are also being developed for building and construction, as well as tourism. As we know, these are areas currently in need of more workers. This initiative reflects how industry partnerships with Government can respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f07692eebf19425281149cf48e356c8e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The answers are getting longer, and they\u2019re already long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ac995d029c841d1a671405565377b06\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: What other recent accomplishments have there been as a result of the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s industry partnerships?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c81ede4755b446309412efb84458a046\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Earlier in July, I attended the signing of a memorandum of understanding between MSD and XLam in Nelson. XLam is an innovative building manufacturing and construction company that is creating entry-level manufacturing and construction opportunities. In the same week, another one of our successful industry partners, the Downer Group, celebrated hiring 1,000 MSD clients over its time. MSD and Downer have had a relationship since 2007, and we are continuing to grow this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3ee44693f8a4df09d7c236f76b79b3e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! OK, OK. I\u2019m recommending a press statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221cf0842256834b528ffcad2859ed5c35\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022e556cd9e97994d7daa1e893cd3f50565\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e556cd9e97994d7daa1e893cd3f50565\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the House to table the draft report of the Justice Committee with respect to the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill and the factual matters that National wanted included in the report that meant the committee was unable to provide a commentary to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002254e6dd6b777a4b58b85b49c67e021a27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254e6dd6b777a4b58b85b49c67e021a27\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E My understanding is that when a bill is reported back to the House, all of the information that the committee had relating to that bill is then publicly released.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002289224029860a4682856a69180e28604b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289224029860a4682856a69180e28604b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s certainly publicly available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002213dfd441035d40068d6d4db068232ecb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213dfd441035d40068d6d4db068232ecb\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m advised by the Clerk of the House that the draft report that was unable to be agreed to is not one of the documents that becomes public, and the only way for it to become public was for me to seek leave of the House for it to be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225182b327253a4bd79b09c058b3eb35aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225182b327253a4bd79b09c058b3eb35aa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right. The member is correct. The Hon Dr Nick Smith is correct. This, as I remember, was a point of debate at the last Standing Orders review. I think it was the view of myself and some of my colleagues that they should be available, but the view of members\u2014some other members\u2014was that they should not be automatically available. So in that case, they are not automatically available. The Hon Dr Nick Smith is correct, and I will put the leave. Is there any objection? There is objection. [Interruption] Order! That cross-House interjection will cease. I just want to place on my record my concern at the members who did object and their lack of commitment to transparency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00226144719dc52f416aa013b9b70fc30ba7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226144719dc52f416aa013b9b70fc30ba7\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The issue here, which was well canvassed, is that a draft report has been prepared by the clerk. It does not necessarily reflect the views of the members. Unless the committee agrees a report, it has no standing and in no way reflects the view of the meeting or the members who attended the meeting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229b21a1f60aa3421a8990d8929f163813\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b21a1f60aa3421a8990d8929f163813\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is absolutely right, and, if he remembers, his colleagues also argued at the same Standing Orders Committee that draft reports to Ministers are available under the Official Information Act. Ministers can differentiate themselves from those draft reports if they wish, and it was the view of the minority of the Standing Orders Committee that members of Parliament were big enough and able enough to differentiate themselves in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9af51e381c1465eb4f45145dddf61c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9af51e381c1465eb4f45145dddf61c4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208ab83d3ff8e4a8f982ddff19c49c118\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I hope the member\u2019s not going to extend this, because it\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203d974ef481c4fa48ac72f1374e3bc02\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I was simply going to say, having had your further advice, I wonder whether the Government members might allow me to seek leave again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022eecfc12a2254444c9050ff813832cbf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eecfc12a2254444c9050ff813832cbf7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m certainly not going to put that. If it can be negotiated with the Government that that approval will be given, then the member might want to try and do it tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221f0ebd06aef5431f9c298bb2f1486539\u0022\u003EPolice\u2014Deputy Commissioner of Police, Inquiry into the Appointment Process\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022385588bf8c5f41e99d14cb0bddd94510\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022385588bf8c5f41e99d14cb0bddd94510\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Internal Affairs: Does she have confidence in the process that led to the appointment of Dr Pauline Kingi as chair of the Government inquiry into the appointment of Wally Haumaha as the Deputy Commissioner of Police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7994ee86ab149738e6ff752fbb776c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7994ee86ab149738e6ff752fbb776c0\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, the premise of the question is incorrect\u2014there is no inquiry into Mr Haumaha. There is, however, a Government inquiry into the appointment process for a Deputy Commissioner of Police. Having said that, I can confirm that the process used to establish the independent Government inquiry into the appointment process for a Deputy Commissioner of Police is the same as that used for the chair of any other inquiry. It is a process run by the Department of Internal Affairs and supported by other agencies. It is the same process established by the previous National Government in November 2009, and was updated by the National Government in 2013 and used by that Government to establish the whey protein concentrate contamination incident in 2013, the royal commission of inquiry on the Pike River coalmine tragedy in 2012, and the Government inquiry into the Havelock North drinking water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022155aef7c3f834717a0387669e1907b40\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was an interesting traverse through the last few years of Government inquiries, but it didn\u2019t really go to the question of whether or not the Minister has confidence in the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229efb1429f1664b4b954d4be5b816e202\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think it did. Does the member have a supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aff0c79aba14ad3b13a7cfead83c72e\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: How can she have confidence in the process that appointed Dr Pauline Kingi when she has publicly endorsed Mr Wally Haumaha 23 times for a range of attributes, including for leadership, governance, public safety, crime prevention, and stakeholder management?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb07dcb640ff4490805e8df217725c35\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Kingi has declared that she knew Mr Haumaha in a professional capacity when she was a highly respected public servant. She has also declared that she attended a tangi either in 2015 or 2016\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b0ef376581d43a78cb85a71909ff3ed\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume her seat. This is a very important answer that goes to the integrity of at least two people, and will be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218629044289f4e149f144c94a9e6ef01\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Kingi has declared that she knew of Mr Haumaha in a professional capacity when she was a highly respected public servant. She has also declared that she attended a tangi in either 2015 or 2016 that Mr Haumaha also attended. Dr Kingi has signed, as is standard procedure, a declaration confirming that she has no conflict of interest in relation to the appointment\u2014which, I remind the member, is into the process by the State Services Commission around appointment processes. If the member if asking if LinkedIn is a usual port of call for Government departments to ascertain the suitability of an inquiry chair, then I would have to say no. Rather than resort to social media, this Government looks to the substantial CVs of candidates and the fullness of their service to their communities and their country, and Dr Kingi is a New Zealander that has given great service to her country. I would suggest this is why the 1999 Shipley-led National Government awarded Dr Kingi the Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022461a440a34044c949606d1012ff07acf\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: When Dr Pauline Kingi was appointed to lead the independent inquiry into the appointment process around Mr Wally Haumaha, was she aware that Dr Kingi had publicly endorsed Mr Haumaha 23 times on LinkedIn for every skill Mr Haumaha has listed on that website\u2014and, in some cases, being the only person to endorse him\u2014and that Mr Haumaha has endorsed Dr Kingi on at least three occasions for her skills listed on the LinkedIn website?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a294027aab19449ea970b28ded14158a\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: I was unaware of the LinkedIn endorsements until my office was contacted by media this morning. I requested that the chief executive contact Dr Kingi to clarify the suggested conflict. While Dr Kingi could not remember making these endorsements, she did confirm\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022078de05d2e0e42dea0a3cccd9cf27aab\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af30d96cd4784fa58f6f7ca1e4835085\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: This is important. Would you like to listen? The integrity of a highly respected public servant is being questioned; it\u2019s important that her answers be placed on the record. She did confirm that she had, like many New Zealanders, set up a LinkedIn account when it was first launched, and that at time it was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9dfd7b407244bca86517c8de206e265\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Are you that useless?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b82137abefa4253a50546454b1c8abf\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014common practice for M\u0101ori professionals to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca3e973667b0465c95fd10c61255fcf9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume her seat. The Leader of the Opposition will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228ff3d9eca7f451593812abb6e4f20a5\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f77df66b9e0496cbaf6d19c27b452c2\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: It was common practice at that time\u201416 years ago\u2014for M\u0101ori professionals to support each other on this new medium through endorsement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022151d83367dfa45f595b22b44b2962c43\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a fact that not only did Dr Pauline Kingi get a substantial honour from the National Party but so did Wallace Haumaha\u2014not once but twice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225ec9fd470f74433b3179a79b34f5ebc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! This member has no responsibility for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c963f3d1794c9ea6400ca6f95b5a9e\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Further to that answer, is the member aware that the endorsement function on LinkedIn was only invented and established in 2012, so references to LinkedIn profiles 15 years ago are an utter irrelevance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e48fca9322d4684b911efa0e14e3033\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is that LinkedIn was developed in 2002\u201416 years ago. It may be that the member is more au fait with social media than I am because I spend most of my time working on things important to New Zealand, not on Twitter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022130a4f833ae440f494c7536a8614e479\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister give a categorical assurance that Dr Pauline Kingi was not involved in recommending promotions or appointments of Mr Haumaha in her role as a member of the Auckland District advisory taumata and her role assisting the Auckland District police with police recruitment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227c05fffa5404647be6e78d6a83a1849\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: I can give an assurance of the complete and proper process around the appointment of Dr Kingi as the chair of an independent inquiry into the process by which the State Services Commission provides information to Ministers for appointment. I can also direct the member to the Office of the Auditor-General\u2019s Managing conflicts of interest: Guidance for public entities if he would like to avail himself of that information with regard to how conflict of interest is managed in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4c4511c58d14e70baadbaf0380cb0e8\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Nurse Staffing Levels\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0fa159360ed4dcd81c9d60d456330d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0fa159360ed4dcd81c9d60d456330d9\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What recent progress has been made, if any, to address safe staffing for nurses working in our hospitals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00228ad6ddc3cbc64619971611b662a94489\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ad6ddc3cbc64619971611b662a94489\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, kia orana. Yesterday the Ministry of Health, district health boards (DHBs), and the Nurses Organisation signed an accord, and agreed to jointly tackle longstanding concerns about nurses\u2019 workloads and safe staffing. Safe staffing is not optional; it is fundamental and must be a priority. This accord sets a clear path forward to ensure that we get the right number of nurses in the right place at the right time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261ed2811103748559833e9c9fc56fd58\u0022\u003EDr Liz Craig\u003C/span\u003E: So how will safe staffing levels be determined?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba4d612476dd40b18ba5421e771df820\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The accord commits DHBs and the Ministry of Health to work with the Nurses Organisation to implement the agreed safe staffing tool, Care Capacity Demand Management. I accept that nurses don\u2019t feel that DHBs have always delivered on previous commitments. As Minister of Health, I will be requiring them to make good on all staffing commitments, and clear accountability mechanisms will be in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022400df4d9d53642f5be9a258c5f00d0ac\u0022\u003EDr Liz Craig\u003C/span\u003E: What measures will be taken to ensure there are sufficient nurses available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022768458bfab614f389dfb3272286082ff\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The accord also includes a commitment to develop a strategy to help keep existing nurses and midwives in the public health service and attract others back to work in our hospitals, and we will look at what more we can do to support our graduate nurses into employment and training. These are realistic steps we can take right now to start addressing the issues of safe staffing and workloads that have developed over many years of underfunding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c24108a2eeba4cbfa084a1d10a9efb86\u0022\u003EEstimates Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ab8789eb4c24bcbbfa719c955cf21c0\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000218\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 24 July on the Appropriation (2018/19 Estimates) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff011941ea7443aab00deb088fe1af05\u0022\u003EHealth Sector (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00229e6dcccf9c7c4fd8bdf4c1ea16adb067\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e6dcccf9c7c4fd8bdf4c1ea16adb067\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Kia orana, colleagues. The House is in committee for further consideration of the Appropriation (2018/19 Estimates) Bill. When we were last considering the bill, the committee was debating the health sector. The question is that Vote Health stand part of the schedules. Dr Liz Craig had the call and has four minutes and 25 seconds remaining if she so wishes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022456152c1c4f34dd28b9a1e82cf8a3c71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022456152c1c4f34dd28b9a1e82cf8a3c71\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chairperson. So when I was interrupted I was talking about targets and about how the fact is that in the health sector they\u2019re useful for focusing action in important areas but they can also be used to divert attention from things that we\u2019d rather people didn\u2019t see. And I was also talking about how this Budget starts to address some of those real underlying drivers about what\u2019s really happening in our health system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo I want to talk a little bit about one of the targets: emergency department waiting times. Because what we\u2019re seeing is\u2014you know, with the previous Government\u2019s targets a lot of emergency departments (EDs) are working really hard to get patients through the system so they can meet the target of 95 percent admitted, discharged, and transferred within about six hours, but the problem that these targets completely miss is why our EDs are bursting at the seams in the first place. This is something that the district health boards (DHBs) were talking about in their annual reviews, with DHBs talking about this ongoing, increasing, relentless demand for acute services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EThe problem we\u2019ve got is a lot of those conditions that people are coming in with are called ambulatory sensitive. What that means is that the hospitalisation could potentially be prevented if they had early access to primary care. What the New Zealand Health Survey is saying is that about 14 percent of people in the last year put off going to the doctor because of the cost, but if you look at people living in the poorest areas, that went up to about 20 percent. So what this Government wants to do is make sure that people can afford to go to the doctor when they need one. What Budget 2018 does is invest an extra $360 million over four years to extend access to Very Low Cost Access (VLCA) GP services to community services card holders. What that means is that for those who are not on a VLCA practice already, their doctors visits will be about, on average, $20 to $30 cheaper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also going to be extending community service cards to all those on accommodation supplement or income-related rent, so even more people can access affordable primary care, and that\u2019s really important for ensuring that people can get to the doctor rather than having to turn up at A \u0026amp; E and end up in hospital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EThe area I was working in before coming to Parliament, though, was child health, and again, looking at targets, there was this huge focus on immunisation rates. Indeed, as we focused on that, immunisation rates did improve because DHBs got together with public health organisations and GPs and worked out how we could improve timeliness and access to immunisation. But the problem is that that\u2019s only sort of a few hundred vaccine-preventable hospital admissions\u2014maybe a couple of thousand. What it misses is that our whole hospital system is full of sick kids: on average, there are about over 40,000 hospital admissions every year for infectious and respiratory diseases, a lot of them related to the economic conditions that the kids are living in. The problem we\u2019ve got is that most of those conditions aren\u2019t actually vaccine-preventable. So when you\u2019ve got to reduce this, what you need to be doing is looking at housing, looking at family income, reducing child poverty, and also making sure families can get to the GP when they need one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EThis Budget addresses all of those areas. With the Families Package, we\u2019re looking at family income. We\u2019re also looking at housing, with 6,400 new houses\u2014State or social houses\u2014over the next four years. In the primary-care space, what we\u2019re looking at is extending free GP services to all 13-year-olds and also extending the nurses in schools programme to all decile 4 secondary schools that are publicly funded. So what we\u2019ve got is many more young people being able to access GP services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EThe problem we\u2019ve also got with some targets\u2014while a lot of the ones I\u2019ve been talking about are tangentially related to targets, there\u2019s others where the targets have completely missed what\u2019s going on the health sector, and that\u2019s the state of our infrastructure, our buildings. What we\u2019ve seen is under-investment in our hospitals, so we\u2019ve got mouldy, leaking buildings. We\u2019ve got buildings that are completely out of date and need repair. A lot of this stems from the fact that we haven\u2019t got an asset management plan nationally, so that was masking the fact that a lot of DHBs, in the face of chronic underfunding, may have been delaying their asset infrastructure. So what this Budget does is it adds 750 million\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002213597c86d2914234a6cafd699ad7082c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213597c86d2914234a6cafd699ad7082c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time\u2014I\u2019m sorry\u2014has finished. We turned off the clocks so that the member didn\u2019t get confused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb6d7fb1679a49fe81d03baac183a27f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb6d7fb1679a49fe81d03baac183a27f\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. The Director-General of Health, in his annual report 2017-18, acknowledges that New Zealand has achieved important health gains over recent years. We are living longer, and we\u2019re living longer in good health, but, of course, there\u2019s always challenges in health, and they remain. After going through the Budget process and after looking at the Estimates, I\u2019m not sure that this Government is up to managing those health challenges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ENow, of course, Vote Health is one of any Government\u2019s really large expenses\u2014or, as National believes, a social investment. Under National, the Government increased Vote Health substantially in every Budget, but during this election, Labour made the case that there was a huge deficit in health spending, that they would invest $8 billion more in health if they became the Government. I actually wonder how many people voted because of that promise, because, of course, they didn\u2019t put an extra $8 billion in health, and at the Health Committee, the Minister of Health had to admit that in percentage terms, Labour\u2019s increase this year was less than National\u2019s last year\u2014so much for election promises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThere are other issues that really bother me about this Government\u2019s approach to health. Doing away with the health targets is a travesty, and it was interesting to hear the member Liz Craig talking about health targets and the importance of health targets, because there\u2019s absolutely no doubt that they have driven the health gains that the director-general has noted were achieved since 2007. The key thing about targets is that they focus on the things that are important to New Zealanders, and on their health outcomes. The targets mean that everyone in the sector\u2014everyone that works in the sector, everyone that supports the sector\u2014knows where to put the emphasis, knows where to put their expertise, and knows where to put their energy. The targets make health organisations, health workers, and district health boards (DHBs) accountable. That\u2019s the key issue\u2014it makes them accountable. The regular publishing of DHB outcomes in the newspapers meant that every New Zealander knew how well the health system was working across the country but, more importantly, how their local DHB was performing. I think everyone in this House knows that monitoring and transparency of any system drives better results, and that, of course, is what we want in health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s other failures in the funding that bother me as well, and again I note that the member Liz Craig was talking about cheaper GP visits\u2014well, weren\u2019t we promised $10-cheaper GP visits across the board? Yes? Again, another election promise that\u2019s very easy to make\u2014we know the reason for it\u2014but has proved very difficult to deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EAnd what about mental health? Just as with the $8 billion promise, Labour campaigned that there was urgent need for more mental health funding and initiatives, and we agreed, but what happened? Since they\u2019ve been in Government, the $100 million that National put up, ring-fenced for mental health and the 17 mental health initiatives that were on the table and committed to, has disappeared, and we\u2019ve now got a mental health talkfest. Now, I\u2019m not necessarily against having an inquiry. This is an important area, but don\u2019t make urgent mental health programmes wait while they talk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThen, what about the $100 million for medicines for rare diseases? Up in a puff of smoke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EFinally, as if disabled people don\u2019t have life tough enough, this Government has just cancelled $6.5 million worth of funding for cochlear implants. Now, cochlear implants are brilliant devices that help deaf people hear, and National\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00229836eea0d07645f3b29003f6d0156850\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229836eea0d07645f3b29003f6d0156850\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to put a few comments on record, as there have been a number of speeches made by members of the Opposition, some of them on a previous day that the committee sat, and correct a few things for the record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Hon Michael Woodhouse, in his opening contribution\u2014I appreciate he hasn\u2019t been the Opposition health spokesperson for a long time\u2014made the claim that Labour, in Opposition, had said the health budget was $8 billion short. That\u2019s not quite accurate. We had some research done in Opposition that suggested the health budget was $2.3 billion short just to achieve the existing level of services in the health system, that it had been short-funded, and that with a growing ageing population with more complex needs and increasing demand, the funding had not kept up with the pace. So it was actually now harder to get access to services than it used to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWhat we saw under the previous Government was a health system that was drifting and that was in decline. With the underfunding, it struggled to keep up, and New Zealanders saw that. They saw that they couldn\u2019t get the services they used to be able to get because the funding simply wasn\u2019t there to deliver them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s why this Government campaigned, as the previous member said, on putting $8 billion more into the health system. This Government is committed over the forecast period to putting $8 billion into the health system, which, over time, contributes that $2.3 billion that they cut out back in, and it adds new funding in as well, recognising that growing ageing population. That\u2019s the pledge we have made, and we\u2019ll be held to account on that over the forecast period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EBut, of course, we can\u2019t fix everything in one Budget. The levels of neglect and the nine years of neglect can\u2019t be addressed in one Budget. Nobody pretends that it can be. Nobody pretends you can magic up a workforce when it\u2019s been run down under the previous Government\u2019s watch while they had just let it drift and decline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EBut this Government is committed to the public delivery of health services. We have determined that we will take measures straight away. We will do things like invest in mental health in a way that the previous Government never did. They seemed content, again, to let that drift and get worse and worse, and to let the wait times get longer for mental health services. They did not take action, despite\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268a27ac1d605401c894a6f04c923efa4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the Minister, but we are on the Estimates, which is about what the Government is going to do, and not necessarily\u2014we\u2019ve had half your five minutes now on the previous Government, so can you focus on what you\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d22c753753d444eb8ee23c09d2b45f9b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I will come back to the reason why we\u2019re responding. What we have committed to in the Budget, therefore, is to already put in some integrated therapies: a pilot programme for 18- to 25-year-olds\u2014more than $10 million over the next three years\u2014which makes counselling and therapy available for young people. We\u2019ve invested $28 million over the next three years to better support Canterbury kids to mean that every primary school - age child in Canterbury will have access to a mental health worker, and we\u2019ve put $17 million over the next four years into expanding school-based health services, which is the next step in rolling out the nurses in schools programme. Quite aside from that, of course, we\u2019ve launched the mental health and addiction inquiry, which reports back in just a couple of months and will project the way forward for future Budgets and commitments that will be made to make sure that we spend the money well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EOne of the other significant things that was done in the Budget which will benefit those with mental health issues is the reduction in fees for community services card holders\u2014540,000 more New Zealanders will have access to doctors visits under $20. For many of them, that will mean a saving of $20 or $30 per visit, and, for some of them, a saving of up to $50 per visit. So they will actually be able to access a GP and, for many, that is the way into mental health services. They get the initial consultation that puts them in a position to get access to mental health services. So that\u2019s a really important initiative on mental health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EA number of speakers have mentioned the $100 million contingency the previous Government had put forward, so I do want to address that and say that that money was never appropriated. No money was ever appropriated for programmes. They were in the realm of nice ideas. That Government had nine years to act and did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4869083fc2b4417a8cdb4d904984925\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4869083fc2b4417a8cdb4d904984925\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak to the Estimates for health, and I\u2019d like to thank the Minister of Health for turning out to that session. We raised a lot of questions in the health portfolio, and I have a particular interest in the National Oracle Solution, which we raised extensively with the Minister, and there are some points I want to talk to here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EJust to set the background, the National Oracle Solution is a $90 million IT project which started in 2011. It was given a different name then\u2014Finance, Procurement and Supply Chain\u2014and in 2013, it became the National Oracle Solution. We asked the Minister and we probed further on conflicts of interest, which, quite clearly, we\u2019ve been concerned about. We\u2019ve been concerned that the Minister and his team have turned away some of the questions, saying that the National Oracle Solution didn\u2019t exist in 2011. Well, we know that to be incorrect. We pointed that out. We have the work schedule from Deloitte\u2014and it\u2019s not an issue of Deloitte; it\u2019s an issue of the appointment that we\u2019re working with\u2014that shows us that they were working on this in 2011. In fact, they were working quite deeply, which I\u2019ll come to in a moment. So I think that, as an argument, just doesn\u2019t stand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s quite clear. Again, we know from released documents that at one point, Deloitte didn\u2019t want their conflict of interest brought into the public domain\u2014when they said, \u201CIt is our preference for this not to be made public.\u201D, once we\u2019d raised questions in the House\u2014and then, later in the day, they came back and said, \u201COh, OK. If you have to, you can.\u201D That\u2019s not a good look, and, of course, the conflict of interest document they\u2019re talking about details all the work that they\u2019d done on the National Oracle Solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIt actually goes a little bit further than that, because what Deloitte does in their conflict of interest statement\u2014the one they wanted to keep from the public\u2014is they actually highlight where they\u2019re materially involved. So it\u2019s not just a passing comment but where they\u2019re materially involved, and I would note that in a majority of their work in 2013 right through to 2017, they have been materially involved. They have had a conflict of interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister tried to distance himself from this debacle\u2014and, again, another sort of riposte that\u2019s been made is, \u201CWell, I didn\u2019t commission the review.\u201D Well, you know, if we look to the statement in the House, the Minister said this\u2014and we raised this in Estimates, as well\u2014\u201CThere is no way that the public would not be interested in the reason why we commissioned an independent report\u201D. That\u2019s an inclusive pronoun\u2014it was a \u201Cwe\u201D. Yes, Minister, you were involved in that appointment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThen we talked about the quality of the review that\u2019s been commissioned, and this is really important: $150,000 is what the taxpayer has paid Deloitte and/or its full subsidiary Asparona\u2014and the Minister confirmed that\u2014to complete this supposedly independent review. It\u2019s important that I read from the transcript so you can grasp how these few sentences were exchanged with the Minister. Reti to the Minister: \u201C[The Deloitte] review was $150,000, Minister. Can the taxpayer expect the review to assess if the solution is fit for purpose?\u201D Clark: \u201CSorry, can you say that again?\u201D Reti: \u201CCan we expect, for $150,000, the review will assess if the solution is fit for purpose? Is that something that will be looked at?\u201D Clark: \u201CWhether the solution is fit for purpose?\u201D Reti: \u201CCorrect.\u201D Clark: \u201C[Yes].\u201D Now, we know that\u2019s not possible, because, again, Official Information Act (OIA) documents have shown us Deloitte writing to us specifically saying, \u201CWe will not be assessing if the solution is fit for purpose.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EWhat have New Zealand taxpayers paid for? They have paid for $150,000 that the Minister, quite correctly, thinks is going to assess if the solution is fit for purpose. It\u2019s a very reasonable expectation that the Minister should have for $150,000, and I think he answered as best as he understood his expectation. Fair enough; I agree with him. However, we have, on OIA documents, Deloitte writing back saying, \u201COh, by the way, we will not be assessing if the solution is fit for purpose.\u201D That\u2019s unbelievable. We can\u2019t really expect to pay $150,000 of taxpayer money for a review that\u2019s really important, that will inform the next stages\u2014it will inform Cabinet as to whether they put more money into the National Oracle Solution. The Minister expects it to assess if it\u2019s fit for purpose. I expect it. I\u2019m sure the House expects it. I\u2019m sure taxpayers expect it, and yet in writing, Deloitte said, \u201COh, by the way, our review will not assess if it\u2019s fit for purpose.\u201D That really needs a lot of scrutiny.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EWe gave it some time in committee. We received a response from the new director-general\u2014clearly new in his portfolio. I\u2019m sure he would give a different response today, but I think that still stands outstanding for the Minister to explain why all of our expectations, including his own, were that we would get a quality review for $150,000, and yet the reviewers are saying, \u201CAh, nah, we\u2019re not going to do \u2018fit for purpose\u2019.\u201D So I challenge the Minister to offer some further comment to that. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0c1564604d04b52a316d412ab1d092b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0c1564604d04b52a316d412ab1d092b\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Chair. I\u2019m delighted to take a stand today and talk about the health appropriation debate, because health is genuinely the biggest spend across all of Government. We can be really proud as a Government, across the benches here, of the money that we have actually put into health. We have inherited some\u2014well, I could start with the dad jokes, but I\u2019m not going to do the dad jokes, but we have inherited an ailing system. We have had some massive problems, and there\u2019s been some wishy-washy action from National in the last nine years. We\u2019ve got critical\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022638a285cd20f478fb6f56590d1e60c5b\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Stop being kind!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c07dab458dcc49a4a4d23f48e81c5ae8\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I\u2019ll stop being kind\u2014facilities in disrepair, unaffordable primary healthcare, the average cost for seeing a GP went up 30 percent. The demand for mental health support has increased by 70 percent in the last decade\u201470 percent. There wasn\u2019t a 70 percent increase in funding to support that\u2014oh no\u2014and we have a crisis. Funding didn\u2019t increase by half of that, and 606\u2014606\u2014Kiwis took their lives last year. We have the highest suicide rate in the OECD. Our workforce has been under strain over the last nine years, and I completely support the Minister when he says that those workers deserve fair pay and safe and decent working conditions. We have all used the health system over\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264eeaf756dcc403fba52143905c616ff\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Look, this is quite a focused debate. I\u2019m looking at the report from Vote Health, and some of the points the member makes are in here, but she must reference them in her conversation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d158e2007fd43dab0397593535943e1\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, Madam. Me hana, Madam Chair. So I am delighted today because we believe in adding value into our health system. So we have added $3.2 billion extra into the health services, and an extra $750 million into the capital for hospitals\u2014$750 million to fix our ailing, leaking system that we have. No doubt, most of you have heard the saying \u201CIf we don\u2019t have our health, what do we have?\u201D Well, this coalition Government believes that if we don\u2019t have a health system, what do we have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EWe believe in free, universal healthcare for all and, as a consequence, we have done our very best\u2014our very best\u2014to direct funding to support those who are least able to pay doctors\u2019 fees. So there will be 540,000 Kiwis on low incomes able to access cheaper GP visits. Plus, we have 56,000 more children funded who are 14 and below. So that\u2019s 56,000 more children who are going to be able to access free doctors in the system. And if we need to go to the hospital, $750 million\u2014or a new hospital in Dunedin\u2014is going to be invested in. We\u2019re adding $80 million to the air ambulances, so that we can get to our emergencies faster, with more fit-for-purpose, safer helicopters, with bigger capacity and with more crew. That\u2019s really important in such a rurally diverse community out there. We\u2019re also increasing funding for elective surgery, so that people won\u2019t be on the waiting list in pain waiting for their knee replacements, etc.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI think the Minister of Health is the pain relief that we all need for our health system. I think the Minister of Health has provided a great budget\u2014one that is going to support all of us out there, all of us Kiwis who use this system. We have a plan, we\u2019re working on it, and, in fact, it\u2019s going to take a while, but we\u2019re going to get there. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1e4983da22441c49ca644600b144182\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1e4983da22441c49ca644600b144182\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I rise to look at the health situation. I\u2019m tempted to start with a remark about some doctors making you sick and some making you better, but, really, there is much more interesting stuff to get on with here with the Estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIt was very interesting for the Health Committee to confirm that Vote Health 2018 had the widest gap between the reality and the rhetoric\u2014and it certainly did. The Minister David Clark talked about the challenges of facing a growing and ageing population with more complex needs. He was right about that one thing, but what did he actually do to deliver in this health budget for that ageing population\u2019s needs? What did he do, for example, to look out and plan for the next 20 years, when there will be 1.3 million New Zealanders over the age of 65?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThere is a very real need to front-load more money into healthcare, particularly for our older and more vulnerable New Zealanders. Minister Clark said that there are challenges. Yes, older New Zealanders are known to consume something like three to four times the amount of healthcare services, and that rises dramatically from the age of about 50. Those are the international trends. We don\u2019t need to think too hard about it\u2014there is certainly a need for a greater investment in that level of services. So what is he doing about it? Is he managing increased demand for elective surgery? No, he is not. What provision is he making for providing greater access for primary care? As far as many senior New Zealanders are concerned, nothing very much at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWe have palliative care, which is, incidentally, expected to increase by about 51 percent over the next 20 years or so. Under a National Government, we delivered an extra $150 million to hospices and into funding end-of-life care, but what has this Minister done in this Budget to allow for it? Absolutely nothing. Palliative and end-of-life care is something that needs to be invested in at a more meaningful level. I think that the amount of money that is put into it at an earlier stage, given that everybody has to die, whether they\u2019re older, younger, whatever\u2014sometimes, unfortunately, people are taken before their time. But there needs to be more consideration given to ensuring that end-of-life care is available to people wherever and whenever they need it\u2014so whether it comes to boosting hospice funding, for example.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThirty-four hospices do a remarkable job in New Zealand. Last year, they made something like 145,000 calls to people\u2019s homes. People being able to stay in their own homes is, I would suggest to the Minister, a very worthwhile investment. If that\u2019s where people who are dying want to stay, and if that is where people who have dementia would like to stay\u2014in their homes\u2014for as long as possible, again, it requires a level of funding and a level of increase in that funding that will allow for caregivers, the people who are responsible for really making the homes safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI would urge the Minister to look at the ACC funding that the last Government put into falls prevention. More than $30 million was put in. When I search through the Estimates in Vote Health, there is nothing that is going to be able to advance a safer and more preventative measure, which has shown to be very worthwhile and saves a really difficult situation for older people, particularly, who have a fall and are then very high-needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWe also see people in that older age group who find that they don\u2019t have the level of resources that they need to stay in their own homes in terms of the budgets, in terms of the increasing costs of rent. These are not necessarily within the health budget, but, again, I would urge the Minister to be more of an advocate for health for older people. We\u2019re not seeing it from the current Minister for Seniors, but perhaps the Minister of Health would like to pick up on that, because it is something that requires a decent amount of money at an early stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think, when I talk to seniors\u2014particularly those with onset dementia\u2014they are seeing no realistic funding or any kind of support through the health dollar for the wonderful work that is done by dementia and Alzheimer\u2019s groups around New Zealand. They need some leadership and guidance. If it isn\u2019t coming from the Minister for Seniors, Tracey Martin, then perhaps the Minister of Health could look again at making up the shortfall, because there are vulnerable New Zealanders who need a leadership initiative from this Government. They are waiting to see it. They\u2019ve been waiting nine months and they have received nothing, not even an indication that it\u2019s really being taken seriously as a health concern. Dementia is, arguably, with our ageing population, one of the more significant areas of need that this country needs to make a profound investment in. Therefore, Vote Health is woefully lacking in 2018. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u002259f24086cd4d43029949e1c51ccfd1b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259f24086cd4d43029949e1c51ccfd1b1\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana e Maine Vaa Tuatua. It is an absolute privilege to stand here and speak on this very important topic: health. It would be rude of me not to acknowledge some of the words that have been echoed from across the Chamber, in terms of the talkfest by the Hon Nicky Wagner and what Dr Shane Reti has just gone through. Again, for me, it\u2019s a rundown of the transcript on the day, which is another talkfest, and \u201CSome doctors make you sick\u201D, I think, is a bit of a compliment to some of the doctors across the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EAnyway, let me get back to Vote Health. We\u2019ve heard people in the committee talk about numbers, talk about underfunding and neglect for nine years, but last night I took my out-of-Parliament staff member to the accident and emergency in Wellington Hospital. There is where we see what we are talking about. The hospital was full. People were coming in. My staff member needed to go to A \u0026amp; E to get a blood transfusion, because she wasn\u2019t aware how ill she was. We went into A \u0026amp; E and the hospital was full. Every seat was taken. When we were met, we went into a room where we were met by the nurse, followed by the doctor. They put the drip in her arm, but they then had to put her in reception because there was no room\u2014there was no room at A \u0026amp; E for her to be in. The nurses, despite reception being full, were upbeat and they were really engaging with everybody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge all the staff that were at accident and emergency in Wellington Hospital last night. We walked in at 8 o\u2019clock in the evening, and we then went up to Ward 4, North Pod A, where the nurses\u2014Kerry junior and Kerry senior\u2014had talked to us. And we hear about messages that were shared by the Minister on his visit to the select committee. He talked about hard-working health professionals that have been under the pump for the past nine years, providing invaluable service. The senior nurse and the junior nurse had not had their dinner\u2014had not had their dinner\u2014and it was 11 o\u2019clock. Their priority was to ensure that the blood transfusion had started before they took their break. Not only that; their role also was to teach the junior, the student nurse\u2014to take them along the journey of teaching them what to do when they\u2019re in hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ESo, as a person who took in someone\u2014as a support person\u2014I saw everything that we are talking about in this place. I saw the hard-working nurses who were not taking their breaks because the priority of the health of the patients was No. 1. I saw a young woman with a bloodied face and everything, because of family violence. They were at reception\u2014full.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ESo I want to acknowledge the Minister of Health on the leadership that he has with this Budget, because this Budget is truly about leadership. It is about the leadership to fix what New Zealand has inherited after the last nine years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to make a special mention. I live in South Auckland, so I want to make a special mention to acknowledge the Minister in terms of the leadership this Government has addressed with the severe buildings of high concern in Middlemore Hospital. Can I take this opportunity to acknowledge the appointment of lau afioga Fepulea\u2019i Margie Apa by the Counties Manukau District Health Board as the Chief Executive for Counties Manukau district health. That is about leadership and insight, bringing in experienced insight to serve the public, to serve\u2014definitely for me\u2014Counties Manukau. I want to acknowledge the Minister on his leadership in the appointment of the Hon Vui Mark Gosche, and now the appointment of afioga Fepulea\u2019i Margie Apa in Counties Manukau. I\u2019m happy that that has happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to talk about\u2014I know I\u2019m running out of time. I want to, again, commend the efforts of the people at Wellington Hospital accident and emergency last night. They definitely earned the appreciation of New Zealand and everyone\u2019s appreciation for the effort they had put in. Not only do they have to look after the patients but they have the responsibility to teach the future nurses, and with that sentence, meitaki maata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00227ee2b357ca5249f980dbadca27983f5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ee2b357ca5249f980dbadca27983f5c\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to begin by just addressing one issue. I think the Minister of Health has tried to claim his narrative of the 17 mental health initiatives of the $100 million amount not being appropriated as if it was his argument. In fact, if he remembers quite rightly, it was my mistake when I wrongly put the word \u201Cappropriated\u201D in my primary question at question time one day about the 17 mental health initiatives and the $100 million. So I just don\u2019t want the Minister taking the kudos that he had come up with that defence himself, when in fact it was actually my mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EBut it actually poses the question: if it hasn\u2019t been appropriated, why not appropriate it? And then he tried to say, \u201CWell, it hasn\u2019t been to Cabinet.\u201D By definition, if it\u2019s in a contingency fund, it means it hasn\u2019t been appropriated and it has been through Cabinet, but it gets put in a contingency fund that\u2019s been approved by Cabinet, and when the details are worked up more into a business case then the funding is released. That\u2019s the real question here, because, as we know, we\u2019ve got a huge pipeline coming down at us through the demand of mental health services. We know that mental health demand in New Zealand has increased from 2.3 percent to 3.6 percent of the population, an increase from about 98,000 to 168,000. So, actually, there\u2019s an agreement that there needs to be a change. If you go out and talk to the mental health sector, what\u2019s the biggest thing they tell you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c05d71f0b5447c7aa894ad07ed8ca1d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Not me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c4fd8f950074f2facd8560dfdf67829\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s that there\u2019s no point\u2014sorry, not you, Madam Chair. The biggest thing they tell us, as politicians, is that there\u2019s no point in continuing to pour money into the district health boards (DHBs). In fact, there have been reports out in the last few weeks where DHBs allegedly weren\u2019t even spending their ring-fenced funding of mental health per year. What I\u2019m saying is it\u2019s the actual NGO sector\u2014it\u2019s the community sector\u2014that\u2019s saying they\u2019re primed and ready to go. They can deliver high-quality services at the same cost and higher productivity. That\u2019s why those 17 mental health initiatives were developed with the Chief Science Advisor and the mental health sector themselves, to break out of the box and think about how can we do things differently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo the Minister can argue that, yes, it was never appropriated, but he needs to say why he has not gone with the consensus of change, to release the community sector so they can go out and deliver services at the mild to moderate end. Rather, he\u2019s tipping more and more money into the DHB system, and, yes, to a point, they have a role to play, but, actually, the mental health sector is agreeing that actually more needs to go into the community sector. That\u2019s what I think needs to be asked here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThe Minister did raise a couple of things as well, and one was the GP visits and how great it was that there\u2019s more access. He forgets to say, actually, that he announced in November as the health Minister that there would be free GP visits for mental health issues, and, unfortunately, that wasn\u2019t honoured in Budget 2018. When you look at Budget 2018, in fact, it really was a disappointment for mental health. When you look collectively across the three parties\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a16b119768394ddaa0290d63f8b27da4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I am looking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d58fd98d55b44c8480fd5900b518c783\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for your attention. When you look at the policy announcements of the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa9a1dc934b74a1b981da742dd31c458\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not looking at those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc4376c3552a40f59a979e89c9b4d6cc\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014three parties in coalition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022557b92ab1b7c4595878e55a484f4151f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not looking at those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279cefd6ce60248978d344f4302bd154f\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it adds up to about 20, and what do they deliver in Budget 2018? About five, and that is the real disappointment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve heard recently, we\u2019ve had vital pilots. One was ready to go around putting mental health professionals with our emergency responders. There\u2019s another pilot that\u2019s been cut that was looking at suicide and our response to identification, support, and follow-up. There was another trial that was to go out as part of the 17 mental health initiatives, around people who had been in crisis. It was a step-up, step-down trial when they get discharged from acute into community and back up again\u2014three out of 17 initiatives that would have made a real change now. Yes, there is an inquiry, but, in fact, we could have done both, and it would have returned a great thing for the mental health sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2f0210e6e48460faf2916bd8733ffc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2f0210e6e48460faf2916bd8733ffc1\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. I rise to speak today to the health Estimates debate, and I\u2019d like to particularly address the two issues of mental health and also drug and alcohol abuse and addiction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to note straight off the bat that this is evidently an emotive topic, as I think it\u2019s something which touches the lives of far too many New Zealanders. I also just wanted to address, in particular, the points made by the speaker previous to me, Matt Doocey. I don\u2019t intend for this to be a tit-for-tat sparring session, because I think that the issue of mental health and drug abuse and addiction are things which are much bigger than politics. But when we\u2019re talking about cost and productivity in the context of this space, I get really dubious. The reason for that is that we\u2019re not talking about economic units here; we\u2019re talking about people\u2019s lives and the quality of people\u2019s lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EYes, absolutely, I don\u2019t think anybody on any side of this House would argue that we shouldn\u2019t be talking about the efficacy of treatment, but I think that we should be careful about the language that we\u2019re using because I think that a lot of the context that has led to this spike in mental health incidents\u2014particularly amongst young people\u2014is absolutely a culture of competitiveness where we are all out fighting against each other as opposed to coming together as communities. We\u2019re incredibly individualised, so I think that that\u2019s something which we can work to fix from the get-go and doesn\u2019t necessarily require a change in legislation or structural funding or otherwise to begin with, but so too it would provide a space and environment for people to feel more welcome to speak about their issues and their troubles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo to turn now to the Estimates as were heard by the Health Committee and the questions that were put forward. On the point of mental health, I actually wanted to refer to the confidence and supply agreement between the Greens and Labour. I quote from No. 16 in that agreement which reads: \u201CEnsure [everybody] has access to timely and high quality mental health services, including free counselling for those under 25 years [old].\u201D Allocated under this Budget for the next three years is an integrated therapy pilot for 18- to 24-year-olds. I think that this is an incredibly exciting starting point, and I will note that this is just that\u2014it is only a starting point. It is focused explicitly on those who are currently falling through the cracks and missing out, which I think is incredibly important, because I personally know far too many people who haven\u2019t been able to access the mental health services that they need when they need them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s focused on ensuring that we end up with the recommendations as to how to make mental health services in this country more affordable and more accessible. I note it\u2019s an interesting choice of words, but it\u2019s referred to in the outcomes and objectives of the pilot as being more acceptable and attractive to young people. I think that\u2019s important, because it\u2019s about not just the services being there but people actually engaging with them\u2014those services being fit for purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI so too note that there is funding in this Budget for the Mana Ake services for rangatahi in Christchurch, who have, obviously, been affected by the trauma associated with the earthquakes, and so too $17 million for the school-based health services expansion. I also\u2014with the final bit of time that I\u2019ve got left\u2014refer to the issues around alcohol and drug addiction services, which are, obviously, also referenced in our confidence and supply agreement at No. 19: \u201CIncrease funding for alcohol and drug addiction services and ensure drug use is treated as a health issue,\u201D. Critical to that point is the $16 million which is being allocated to Auckland City Mission for the use of their beds for those with drug abuse and alcohol addiction, and abuse issues as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI think, as I kind of alluded to at the beginning of this speech, the point around cross-party collaboration is incredibly, incredibly critical. Mental health issues do not happen in a vacuum. They are informed by culture. They\u2019re informed by the behaviour of the leaders in our society. I think that we in this House have every opportunity to stand up and to grasp that leadership and to show some political will to solve these problems, because it is as much important that we instigate a cultural shift as a structural one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00227dbfcd8ad9fc4f9eaecc11b7fbfc1104\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227dbfcd8ad9fc4f9eaecc11b7fbfc1104\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I want to address some of the points raised by members during this debate and make a few comments along the way about the overall health budget. This is the biggest investment a Government has made in nearly a decade into healthcare. Overall, it\u2019s a $3.2 billion investment\u2014represented in the documents in the Budget that we\u2019re examining\u2014including $750 million in capital investment, which is the most significant, certainly, in a decade. This is a big Budget for health, and it needed to be. We have significant underfunding in the health sector, and, as my colleague Anahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki noted, when an emergency department is visited these days, they\u2019re pretty busy places\u2014they are very stretched.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI want to, particularly, address the issue of health targets which has been raised, and the honourable member who raised this talked about the progress made against those targets. It\u2019s true that some of those targets have driven good progress, and I certainly have never denied that. The quicker emergency visits target is celebrated widely. The fact that faster cancer care should happen is true, although I note that the target focuses on only 25 percent of cancers. The immunisation target was largely achieved a long time ago. But some of the other targets, clearly, are not ideal. An obesity target that simply stamps referrals\u2014so that if I referred to a practitioner and they referred back to me, that\u2019s two stamps on the book\u2014doesn\u2019t actually reduce obesity. Nor too does a target on activity around tobacco control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESo this Government is concerned to put a suite of measures in place that actually looks at how we improve the overall population health\u2014measures that are broader and that can track the progress of district health boards (DHBs), rather than focusing on specific targets that can distort behaviour in the sector, and can mean that investment isn\u2019t necessarily going where it produces the best value for the taxpayer dollar. Of course, the pin-up for that is in the area of electives, where we know that figures have been pumped up by Avastin injections and skin lesion removals that, in many cases, were previously done in primary care. So we want the best value for taxpayer money from the available health dollar. That\u2019s what this Government stands for, and we\u2019re less interested in a particular, narrow set of political targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIn response to the issue raised by Mr Reti around the Deloitte review, I\u2019m advised that it does catalogue the failures under the previous Government\u2019s watch. I\u2019m surprised he wants to keep bringing it up when that\u2019s what it\u2019s actually a review about, but there we are. They spent $119 million and have nothing to show with it\u2014$119 million and nothing to show with it\u2014and that is, indeed, recorded in the Estimates document. Why he keeps bringing that up is a mystery to many, many people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThen Maggie Barry raised the issue of the health of older people, and I want to congratulate the Hon Tracey Martin for the work that she\u2019s doing in that area. Health, of course, has invested in this Budget in preparation work for a SuperGold card check for all people, and also, the cheaper doctors visits initiative, that will see community services card holders able to access cheaper doctors visits, will affect hundreds of thousands of seniors in this country and will mean that they get doctors visits, in many cases, $20 to $30 cheaper. This is a good Budget for older folk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EOn top of that, of course, is the biggest investment into DHB funding in nearly a decade. This Budget is really significant in that respect: $549 million per annum is going to DHB budgets, as compared to the previous Government\u2019s record, which includes, over the last period, $439 million, $400 million, $300 million, $275 million, and $250 million\u2014low numbers\u2014going into the DHBs. I guess that\u2019s why they\u2019ve been put under such strain. I do want to congratulate the health workers that continue to work in our health sector, despite the underfunding over many years that they\u2019ve struggled with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EMr Doocey\u2019s point\u2014quickly\u2014about the initiative and his mistake. I acknowledge that, but we\u2019ve put another $200 million into DHBs, we estimate, over the forecast period for mental health within the ring-fence. On top of that, there is $49 million in new initiatives, and we would expect more to come out of the mental health and addiction inquiry that\u2019s under way. This is a Government determined to deliver joined-up services, and when he talks about pilot initiatives that never happened in the nine years they were in Government and says that somehow this is this Government\u2019s failure, I want him to have a look in the mirror.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThank you for this opportunity. This is the best Budget for health in a decade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b9311ca8a63a423e85fb173b4e2ac03a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote Health be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVote agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fad4a4207fc4c90ad9bcf256430c8ea\u0022\u003EJustice Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00221843fc07b98247f7b2c734998a2dcc04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221843fc07b98247f7b2c734998a2dcc04\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to the votes in the justice sector, B.5, Volume 7. The question is that Vote Attorney-General, Vote Corrections, Vote Courts, Vote Justice, Vote Parliamentary Counsel, Vote Police, and Vote Serious Fraud stand part of the schedules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u00223c833af990a04eeab9cea2d4783e04b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c833af990a04eeab9cea2d4783e04b5\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Chairperson of the Justice Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The Justice Committee conducted Estimates hearings for Vote Justice, Vote Courts, Vote Police, Vote Serious Fraud Office, Vote Attorney-General, Vote Parliamentary Counsel, and, finally, Vote Corrections. The total annual and permanent appropriations for Vote Justice in 2018-19 are $478.989 million, and the appropriations for Vote Corrections are $1.966 billion. This compares with the final budgeted expenditure of $1.803 billion in 2017-18, and is 10 percent more than the estimated actual expenditure of $1.794 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EReforming the criminal justice system is one of the highlights of Vote Justice. Minister Andrew Little told us that the rate of criminal reoffending has remained largely constant, and prison numbers are rising rapidly and more violent offences are being committed. We heard that harsher sentencing has not reduced the rate of criminal reoffending over the last 10 to 15 years, as intended. Moreover, reoffending among youth and offending involving violent crime has increased. This has been seen as a failure in the system, because the aim of the system is to have fewer victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EWe asked how the Government intends to reduce the rate of criminal reoffending, given that in 2012, the then National Government announced the target of reducing the rate of reoffending by 25 percent by June 2016. However, in the year of 2016, the reoffending rate decreased by less than 4 percent, and therefore the National Government at that time dropped the target. The Minister said that serious criminal offences justify a custodial sentence, but when someone\u2019s offending is related to mental health issues or addiction, the focus should be on fixing those issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EWe also heard from Minister Kelvin Davis that 90 percent of prisoners have mental health issues at some point in their lifetimes. Forty-six percent of prisoners have had some kind of mental health issue in past years, and that\u2019s one of the reasons why the Government has chosen to dedicate resources to 100 mental health units at Waikeria. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EWe heard from Minister Little about his plans to reduce M\u0101ori reoffending and to have additional funding for criminal rehabilitation. The Government\u2019s priority is to start with the criminal justice summit, which will develop reform proposals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EWe heard from Minister Stuart Nash that Budget 2018 has left police very well placed to deliver the high quality of service that the general public rightly expects from them. The Government\u2019s priority is to ensure police are adequately funded to help keep the communities safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe safer ethnic communities forum held in May 2018 connected ethnic communities with several Ministers and their agencies, together with the Commissioner of Police and his colleagues, to work on a long-term plan to improve safety in the ethnic communities. The feedback from the ethnic communities was very positive. We also heard from the commissioner that the forum helped to break down perception barriers about the police and to open lines of communication. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EFor Vote Attorney-General and Vote Parliamentary Counsel, we heard from Minister David Parker about the appointment of judgeships, the judiciary resourcing model, and access to secondary legislation project. Thank you, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00220795ae39c76a44a48352251203b32d71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220795ae39c76a44a48352251203b32d71\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Mark Mitchell\u2014the Hon Mark Mitchell, I beg your pardon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00226bbf312eae93441a8f0627c0434657c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bbf312eae93441a8f0627c0434657c8\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The last time I got called \u201CGrant Robertson\u201D, I think, so that\u2019s a good start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e3e48881c824cdd9e0612e2f03d6beb\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s appropriate, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022201b567e97564267abc7fa4e8b763d39\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call. Look, can I start by saying that I just want to quickly go over the numbers. The other spokespeople will talk to the other areas of the justice portfolio: corrections, courts, police, and Attorney-General.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe total annual and permanent appropriations for Vote Justice in 2018-19 were $478,989 million compared with $551,123 million estimated actual expenditure in 2017-18. This was actually a decrease of $72,134 million. In all fairness, although that was a major decrease, we did have the new justice precinct that was delivered in Christchurch, and that, of course, involved some upfront capital costs that would not reoccur. However, it\u2019s still a pretty uninspiring appropriation and I find it sad that actually the biggest new investment is for money that\u2019s being put into an initiative around the 2020 general election. You could argue that actually that\u2019s more about us than anyone else, so I feel that that money could have been used in much better areas like victim support services, the National Home Safety Service, or our community law centres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI just want to very quickly touch on the reforming of our criminal justice system\u2014and I know that we\u2019ve got our criminal justice summit that\u2019s fast approaching in August. I\u2019ve had a meeting with the Minister and I made it very clear to him. I said, \u201CIf you can come up with some good criminal justice reform that we can see will have genuine benefits and gains for the country and for our communities, then we\u2019ll support those\u2014we\u2019ll get behind them.\u201D That\u2019s what I came to Parliament for: to make the country better, not worse; to make it safer, not less safe. But I said, \u201CIf you put up proposals like we\u2019ve seen recently around the repeal of the three-strikes legislation, then we\u2019ll take a very firm position against that.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a3b5c3b518945a68617964dc5e3d145\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: How much safer has that made the country, Mark?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220af0a258b5f347c282d185f6337fefc6\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry, what was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c88e37080af4f51ba46f848d94afd2b\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: How much safer does that make the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf65b0c7aaea4fb99eed1f6e69259f03\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve just been asked by Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick how much safer that\u2019s made the country. The three-strikes legislation has been shown to be successful as a deterrent when you look at the numbers reducing from the first strike to the second strike to the third strike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243f969631e6c4effb031bc996ff1e3ea\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Correlation doesn\u2019t imply causation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1e2548dd67e4564b8ba799206f47454\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Let me just give you one example and you can respond to this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204fb6934b7f6420390d1d3016e7b3959\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, you\u2019re talking to the Chairperson, not to members across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d85c0064df8b4eb184e7b729fc3e0bad\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry, Madam Chair, and I realise that I don\u2019t have much time\u2014although I may seek a second call. So let me give you one example from when we had this debate in the House around the three-strikes legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI was contacted by a second female corrections officer\u2014not the original one that we talked about, that had her case trivialised because it was referred to as a pinch on the bottom; but a second female corrections officer\u2014that contacted me and said that she too had been the victim of an indecent assault in the workplace and that the offender had been convicted on a second strike. Do you know what she said to me? She said to me the best message she could get from her country was to say that they took it seriously enough that that offender got a second strike. So what is your comment to that? What would you respond to that\u2014because I\u2019m very, very interested to hear. This is a victim. This is someone that has actually been victimised. This is real; it\u2019s not in this House. This happened to a female corrections officer who clearly had stated and said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222304c02a96314295b75826b800dab74d\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Serious sex crimes went up. That\u2019s what happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebd7642b6eb44a0a92d10dfdcccb2a2a\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that the best message for her was that her country took that offending against her seriously enough that the offender had a second strike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022478de240712c44acb58b431d0d5c7d8e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Look, order! I\u2019m sorry. This is a debate on the Estimates, OK. The member\u2019s had her opportunity to make her case. I would ask that she gives this member the opportunity to make his case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ca4f841beb2492d8c46fe95e17a565e\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: So take a call. I\u2019ve just laid out a very clear example for you that, for the general public, this actually makes them feel safer. It makes them feel that, actually, as a Parliament, we\u2019re taking it seriously. So I ask you to take a call and respond to that and tell me why we should be repealing the three-strikes legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271f75eac195d417f8b0dcddc7592a870\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Because all evidence shows the longer people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248ff210482f44d1e8a14ce2994af4f00\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will cease interjecting, and may take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b857d1cbdd74914b40058fda2d4867a\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo one part of the debate that was missing, in terms of that\u2014and it was never highlighted, it was never talked about\u2014is that actually you can implement or trigger the \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D part of the legislation. In the case of the other third-strike offender case that\u2019s exactly what happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIn that case, the offender, yes, was charged under the three-strikes legislation. He indecently assaulted a female corrections officer in her workplace. I can\u2019t remember the exact words in the victim statement but it obviously left her deeply stressed. She lost a lot of confidence in the workplace and, actually, what happened was the judge triggered the \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D provision. So what that meant was that the offender, yes, was convicted under three strikes. It was a very clear message that we were sending as a Parliament and as a nation, telling her that we take this very seriously, that we take a sexual assault on her in the workplace very seriously. But the judge had an option and that was to trigger \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D, which he did. So what it means is that that offender now doesn\u2019t just get a seven-year sentence, as was portrayed in this House, and was portrayed to the general public\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022793c82788a844d44a83e1b5d6886f30c\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Quite a wide-ranging debate, is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beabb37a402144e6a3b580248e0d4d77\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Take a call, Mr Ball. I welcome you to take a call and respond to this. Tell me where I\u2019m going wrong on this. So \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D was triggered, which means actually now that he\u2019s eligible for parole next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc317c6c0ad347d08b1f37739356fbbc\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not arguing with you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280fce6173acb49d187e1c40e3b07fbbb\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: But we didn\u2019t\u2014well, what are you arguing about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fa47480736b4907b6618a061363f4ef\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s quite a wide-ranging debate, isn\u2019t it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c54794072164a42973379178c007421\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d3a1b4c6d134c3e9c8849740cfb50b4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: That is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d7f5a37eac34a1aa84a2ca7ec9b37a9\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Start talking about the appropriations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223626210c4e0f457aaab0af8681244b4d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That is entirely up to me. There was a barrage of interjections about a particular point, which the member has now addressed, and I would ask him to come to the Estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de17adea3b804f93bf053ca262dda246\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll come back to the Estimates, and the reason why I was using those examples is because I\u2019m referring directly to the Estimates hearing where I asked the Minister about his reforms. The first reform that he tried to get through Cabinet was a repeal of the three strikes legislation\u2014that was the first thing he tried to do. What happened? It got shot down. At the last minute, a Labour justice Minister was thrown under the bus. He was publicly humiliated because the coalition partner withdrew their support at the 11th hour, and he couldn\u2019t take his reform to Cabinet to get approval to get it through. [Darroch Ball shakes head] You can shake your head, but that\u2019s exactly what happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd5bb4b7dc684a3e95f94403087b7e31\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: No it\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228345b7c6077740f08982d5e6f07aa55b\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ve read the Estimates transcript. Read the Estimates transcript and you\u2019ll see what the conversation was, and you\u2019ll see that\u2019s exactly what he says. So then he had to go back to the Prime Minister, and then they decided, at the 11th hour, \u201COh, we\u2019ll reprioritise it, and we\u2019ll reprioritise the justice summit, and we\u2019ll go up to the justice summit and we\u2019ll generate some ideas up there.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe point that I want to make is this\u2014and I see that Greg O\u2019Connor is in the Chamber, and I want to acknowledge him and acknowledge that I respect his service and his background. I know that he didn\u2019t come to this House to make New Zealand a less safe place, so my expectations are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d85c54b3c54c4987b94b5b5154915d64\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Do you believe this, Mark?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a0ea98c5f064ef385239e36426cdbff\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that he will look very, very closely at the reforms\u2014you can be as shocked as you want; I\u2019m telling you now, we will not be supporting reforms that will allow people out on the street that shouldn\u2019t be out on the street. They\u2019re in prison for a very good reason, and that is public safety. If we can come up, and if you can show that you\u2019ve got some good reforms whereby we can continue a very strong rehabilitation programme but at the same time keep the public safe, then we\u2019ll look at that\u2014without a doubt, we\u2019ll be interested in that. But right now, the only thing that\u2019s been signalled to this House is diluting and weakening parole laws, bail laws, and sentencing laws. We will not accept that\u2014we will not accept that on its own. Nothing else has been put up\u2014nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ef2b7c8063d44e2acdbc8c1e2430037\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can I bring the member back to the Estimates, please?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c08fd298aa804db0966fb4c8030dbb3d\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair, I\u2019d argue that I\u2019m directly addressing the transcript of the Estimates hearing. This is exactly what I spoke about: the dilution of bail laws, sentencing laws, parole laws; the three strikes legislation; the plan that they actually have; the plan that\u2019s been brought to us so far, which is non-existent\u2014that\u2019s exactly what I\u2019m referring to. That\u2019s exactly what I\u2019m talking about at the moment, Madam Chair, so are you happy for me to continue with that? [Madam Chair nods] Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo in the first nine months, we have seen nothing put up at all by this Government other than a plan to repeal the three-strikes legislation. So I\u2019ve clearly laid out the case that was put, and I\u2019d welcome, now, someone to take a call and address the issues that I\u2019ve raised. Maybe the Green Party will do that right now. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00221ea2cdb4544e462db72bfa0f0dde7915\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ea2cdb4544e462db72bfa0f0dde7915\u0022\u003EVIRGINIA ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand and speak regarding the appropriations and Estimates debate for the justice sector. The Justice Committee heard from the Minister of Justice that harsher sentencing has not reduced the rate of criminal offending over the past 10 to 15 years. We also heard, on the Justice Committee, that reoffending among youth and offending involving violent crime have also increased over that period of time. The Minister of Justice himself stated that he saw this as a failure of the justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn this, I\u2019d like to directly speak to the point that was raised by the previous speaker, Mark Mitchell, that there is a clear point of difference that has emerged between this Government and the previous National Government. That point of difference is that this Government is focused on fixing the systemic issues within our justice system\u2014those systemic issues that mean generation after generation of New Zealanders are being further exposed to being victims or offenders as a result of the very system which they are going through. I think that is the response to the member that has just spoken, that this is a Government that is focused on turning that around and making a real change, not scoring quick political points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis Government wants a safe and effective justice system, and that was heard quite clearly through the Estimates process. Yes, it is important that those who offend are held to account\u2014there will not be a compromise of public safety, as incorrectly inferred previously\u2014but also something different, something on top of that, is the ability to rehabilitate people, to reintegrate people, and to provide support to victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn our justice system, we have 47 percent of people going through who have addiction issues, and we have 37 percent with mental health issues. Previously, those things have simply not been addressed, and those people have cycled through the system time and time again, causing damage to their lives and to their families\u2019 lives, and wasting money that should be focused on rehabilitating and providing support where it\u2019s needed. Again, I say: that is the point of difference and that is the fundamental plan that will be changing the way this justice system takes shape in the future. We want to see intergenerational change and to see that our children who grow up in New Zealand have all the opportunities of taking full advantage of what New Zealand offers. We should not have a system that continues to make people more likely to be offenders or victims by processing through it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn particular, we also heard, through Vote Police\u2014and I\u2019d like to touch on that briefly\u2014that there was much discussion around the 1,800 police officers that has the main target of delivering under this Government. In particular, there was discussion around the breakdown of that 1,800. So there are 1,100 sworn front-line officers; there are 700 authorised officers and 485 non-sworn, and I\u2019d just like to quickly break that down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo authorised officers\u2014that 700\u2014particularly address the area of fighting organised crime, and I think that that\u2019s a point that\u2019s been missed by those members opposite. In the areas of forensic accountants, who are tracing where money has come from during fraud and high-level white-collar crime, and also looking in the area of internet crime where you need expertise in those areas\u2014that is the future, and that is where this Government is focused on investing money, not just by promising window dressing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe 485 non-sworn\u2014those are the people that back up the front line. Those are the people that do the work that enable police officers to get back in their cars, back on the streets, and get out doing the jobs that they need to be doing\u2014not sitting back in front of a computer, not filling out forms, not doing work back in the office. By having more support in the back rooms, that enables police officers to work far more effectively and be better supported than they have been. Under the previous Government, we saw a cap on non-sworn, and that saw front-line officers doing back-duty work, and that\u2019s a waste of money and a waste of our skills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWe are a Government focused on changing the system and delivering the changes that people need to be stronger and to live healthier lives. That is something that the members opposite are yet to realise. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022571a58b8a90a4f899afa8a204f8adcad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022571a58b8a90a4f899afa8a204f8adcad\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I acknowledge the Minister in the chair, the Hon Kelvin Davis. I just must admit that I feel a bit sorry for the Minister because he\u2019s having to deal with a promise that has been landed on him by the Labour Party, and that is to reduce the prison population by 30 percent in the next 15 years. That Minister may have had the best intentions when he took on that promise as well, but he is soon coming to the very stark reality that that is a promise that he cannot deliver and will not be able to deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIt will mean one of two things for the Labour Party: either they have to backtrack on another promise to the Parliament and to the public of New Zealand that they went to the election with, or they have to have a significant reduction in the prison population. When you\u2019re looking at a prison population which is over 10,000 prisoners at the moment, and a projected decrease to around 7,000 to meet the goal that that Minister and that Government set\u2014and that prison population is projected to actually increase further, not decrease, going up to over 14,000 prisoners. That means that that Minister will have to actually, effectively, reduce the prison population by half\u2014by half\u2014to actually achieve their goal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENow, when you consider that 70 percent of all prisoners are there for serious offences, how are they going to reduce that prison population by half and keep the New Zealand public safe? You just can\u2019t do that. New Zealand First I know are shaking their heads. It\u2019s one of those situations where New Zealand First will talk the big talk, but actually will be silent on this matter in this House over the next 2\u00BD years, as it knows that this is part of that coalition agreement they signed up to and they have to enable this to happen. That means that the New Zealand public will face 7,000 prisoners in their communities in the next short while\u2014otherwise you can\u2019t achieve the promise that\u2019s been set.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENow that is the stark reality of what will happen. Let\u2019s see if the actions of the Labour Party support that\u2014of course they do; they didn\u2019t build Waikeria Prison. Instead of building a prison for 1,500 prisoners that had a projected cost of $950 million, that Minister signed off a $750 million prison for only 600 prisoners. That is a gross negligence on the behalf of the Government in regards to the safety of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIf there was a plan of how that prison population will be reduced, we would love to see it, but there isn\u2019t. All we have is some summit that\u2019s going to come up in a few months\u2019 time, and that will be used as a mechanism to try and endorse the policies of the Government of the day. But then there is help coming, because we know that this Minister has said there will be 976 pop-up beds in our existing prison network, taking some of our bigger prisons to over 1,000 prisoners in each of those. And there will be no rehabilitation services given in addition to the current rehabilitation funding. The Minister said that at Estimates. He said there will be no extra funding, and then a couple of weeks later in the House he corrected himself around that and said there may be some. There\u2019s none in the Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIn fact, rehabilitation funding in the Budget is going down. When National was there it was a 13.7 percent increase year on year; there\u2019s only been a 6.7 percent increase under this Minister. Effectively, it has gone down from what it should be. The Minister isn\u2019t spending on rehabilitation. Now we\u2019ll hear about this lauded mental health programme for 100 prisoners at Waikeria. I bet you that\u2019s what the Minister\u2019s going to stand up and talk about and say, \u201CThis is going to make a difference.\u201D Well, that\u2019s 100 prisoners out of a population of 10,500 at the moment, going up to 14,000\u2014and you\u2019ve got to let 7,000 out. So how are we going to rehabilitate the others when we know that there are serious mental health issues within the prison population?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe Minister has been landed with a promise he cannot deliver. He knows that, and the Labour Party and the Green Party and New Zealand First will spend the next two years trying to manage the fallout from failing to deliver that promise, and all that will do will be to put our prison officers at risk for their safety, put New Zealanders at risk in their safety\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u00225c2613bd6e5e4777909a033c5f0ba37c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c2613bd6e5e4777909a033c5f0ba37c\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d just like to express my thanks to the member who\u2019s just taken a call, David Bennett, for his concern for my well-being, but let me just say that it\u2019s really unnecessary. He\u2019s saying that it\u2019s an impossible task for a Government to reduce a prison population; well, let me say that there are jurisdictions all around the world who have successfully done that and the crime rate hasn\u2019t risen and communities have been kept safe. So our goal in corrections is to make sure that those people who should be in prison will be in prison. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the good news: the member spoke about the forecasts and the prison population rising\u2014we know that the previous Government took those forecasts as a target; we treat them as a warning and we\u2019re doing something about it. He\u2019s already said, \u201CWell, what are you doing about it? Where\u2019s the plan?\u201D Let me say now, if he looks at the trend in the prison population since we became the Government\u2014it was about 10,400\u2014it actually went up to 10,800 and is now actually less than what it was when we became the Government. They keep saying that we\u2019re just going to ease up on bail laws, sentencing laws, and parole laws. Well, actually, none of that\u2019s happened, but just through good practice and helping people, the prison population has reduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ESo what have we done to help people? Well, one of the things that we\u2019ve done is to assist people who are seeking bail. Here\u2019s a nice little story: there are people who are arrested and then they\u2019re asked to fill out applications for bail, and if they don\u2019t have the application filled out, the judge has no alternative but to remand them in prison. Simply by having Department of Corrections staff help people who are illiterate to fill out a bail form, it actually gives a judge a choice on what to do with that prisoner. It\u2019s a simple little thing that has really started to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EIn Budget 2018 we have $517.6 million extra for operational expenses. I\u2019m not going to stand here and crow about it, because that means actually that something\u2019s wrong if we just keep on investing in prisons. The member who just spoke also said, \u201CSo what is the Government\u2019s plan?\u201D\u2014well, everything that the Government is doing, in every area really, is working to reduce the prison population. If you look at our Families Package and those sorts of initiatives, they\u2019re helping people get the best start in their lives so that they don\u2019t actually go on to commit crime and end up in prison in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re looking to lift 384,000 families out of poverty. If only 0.1 percent of 384,000 we had an impact on, making sure that 0.1 percent of their children didn\u2019t go into prison, that\u2019s something like 400 children who over the next 15 years won\u2019t actually end up in prison. So we\u2019re talking about the long-term stuff in all of our Government\u2019s practices, not just the short and sharp end of the stuff in corrections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWe got $57.6 million in the Budget over four years to help with housing, because we know that when an offender is released from prison and has nowhere to live, nowhere to go, then chances are that that person will reoffend. Not only are we helping them with accommodation, but we\u2019re wrapping support around them so that they don\u2019t go on to reoffend in the future as well. It\u2019s all about looking after people, not just while they\u2019re in prison but also while they\u2019re out of prison. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EOne of the things I\u2019ve asked corrections to do is start to reach further into a prisoner\u2019s sentence to start supporting them on their transition out of prison. At present, they might get help a couple of days before they leave prison, and they might get help for a couple of weeks afterwards. I\u2019m saying we might have to reach further into their sentence and take longer to transition them, and for some people we may need to take longer to transition them out and support them not to go on and reoffend. The previous Government, the mistake they made is they just said, \u201CDo a course while you\u2019re in prison, and when you go out, be a nice person and don\u2019t reoffend.\u201D The thing is that we need to keep supporting people long before their sentence ends and later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002214e30ecf69ab4d4f8ccb81e195dcd1f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214e30ecf69ab4d4f8ccb81e195dcd1f7\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Chairperson. I\u2019ll just start by acknowledging Mr Mitchell\u2019s comments\u2014the Hon Mark Mitchell, who did bring me into his speech and talked about my determination, and I\u2019m sure it will be the same as his and his colleague Matt King\u2019s and, in fact, my colleague Ginny Andersen\u2019s, who, while not a front-line police officer, was a very important part of police\u2014she worked in the policy area. The really important thing is the four of us, along with everyone here, want to achieve the same thing. We actually want the best. The best is less people in prison, less victims, and a safer New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EGoing on to the comments of the speaker from Waikato, the Hon David Bennett\u2014he spoke to the Minister in the chair at the time, the Hon Kelvin Davis, and said, \u201CHe will not achieve this.\u201D He left a vital word out, which is the key to this debate. As Minister of Corrections he will not achieve it \u201Calone\u201D, and that\u2019s the incredibly important part of where we\u2019re at now. I have come to this House from a 40-year career in and around the justice sector. What actually has happened\u2014for the first time, as I\u2019ve seen the Ministers, particularly the Minister of Police, the Minister of Corrections, and the Minister of Justice, come through on the appropriations. For the first time, I understand that we are not going to achieve this by the narrow approach taken, which is basically a soft-on-crime claim, which, I have to admit, we\u2019re hearing from the Opposition now, and we\u2019ve heard it from Oppositions for time immemorial. What that does is focuses down to a tiny part of the criminal justice system that simply means we are so focused, so down\u2014we\u2019d have heard it today across the floor\u2014it means we can\u2019t see the bigger picture, and that prevents us from making sure we do what it is that is absolutely necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI look, particularly\u2014the previous Minister in the chair spoke about the need for cooperation between departments. There is nothing so basic as people not being able to leave correction facilities currently because they don\u2019t have housing. So what do you do? You cooperate between the housing. That is a very minor example of the sort of cooperation we are going to need, because, again, we get focused down on the reed but what we need to do is step back and actually look at what the real problem with crime in New Zealand is now\u2014why serious crime is increasing. It is because of the rise of gangs and organised crime. Prisons not used smartly, not used in conjunction with sentencing, not used in conjunction with policing, and not used in conjunction with the Ministry of Justice and other departments just simply means that prisons become actually a part of aggravating the problem instead of helping it out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ELet me just give you a little example. There\u2019s one group of offenders who are the lowest reoffenders, right across the board, when they come out of prison. They\u2019re very serious offenders: it\u2019s sex offenders. Now, interestingly enough, that is a group that, funnily enough, when they go into prison, unlike most prisoners going in there, are not forced to join a gang. No one wants to know them. What it actually means is, while it\u2019s not a particularly comfortable stay there, they aren\u2019t forced to join a gang for survival\u2014in fact, nobody wants them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIt means that when they then go out in the system they\u2019re unlike much of the jailbait which goes into prison because they\u2019re doing the work for gang members, are recruited, are forced to get tattoos while they\u2019re in there, and therefore, when they come out, it doesn\u2019t matter what other programmes they do in there, it doesn\u2019t matter what M\u0101ori initiatives or what any other initiatives we have to help them, the gang culture is stronger than any of those initiatives. So looking back at the very unlikely group of people who don\u2019t reoffend, it is those sex offenders. So what we\u2019ve got to do is\u2014whatever we do it\u2019s got to be about controlling the gangs, and we\u2019re only going to that by a multi-departmental approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo while the Opposition\u2014can I make a plea? You\u2019ll want to out-compassion us\u2014you really want to be part of a joined-up sector here. Please do not allow this to be focused on sentencing, because if you do, it means\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264793885c7e34d46bb4c9b62f54f1992\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1db6a4be3064ebb8bf08b64120c39b9\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014nothing will be done if eventually you do\u2014sorry. If the Opposition does get back in, they\u2019ll face the same issue. So the joined-up approach means looking at what the real issue is that is facing us today. It is gangs, it is organised crime. If we only in this House talk about sentencing, talk about that narrow focus, we will fail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00229cd122743f2f482b9d69651700fa2c32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cd122743f2f482b9d69651700fa2c32\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chairperson, I wish to take a call about the muddled and duplicitous approach of the Government in respect of the issue of public-private partnerships (PPPs) in the justice sector, an issue that I raised at the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, in Opposition, Labour rallied against PPPs. I could read quotes, and I\u2019ll read one specifically for members opposite: \u201CThe difference between National and Labour is that we believe in the public sector and we won\u2019t be having the private sector running or owning our prisons.\u201D Then right before the election even the Prime Minister said this: \u201CLabour does not agree with PPPs when it comes to building core infrastructure, like prisons.\u201D And then, even after the change of Government and Mr Davis got his ministerial warrant and there was discussion about Waikeria Prison, Mr Davis said, \u201CWe are yet to make decisions but we will not\u201D\u2014not\u2014\u201Cbe agreeing to a public-private partnership.\u201D So when the Estimates came along and we have a $750 million public-private partnership I choked on my Kornies. I said to myself, \u201CWell, what possibly could have led a political party that\u2019s rallied against PPPs to suddenly do one for three-quarters of a billion dollars?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut it gets worse than that. When the Government announced the PPP, they said they were doing it because they had to, because the previous Government had signed a contract. At the select committee we asked the Minister what date the contract for the Waikeria Prison was signed. And do you know what the answer was from the Minister and officials? \u201CIt hasn\u2019t been signed yet.\u201D And so we have this incredible situation where not only has the Labour Party gone back on its word to New Zealanders on PPPs in the prison sector; it\u2019s then had the audacity to dishonestly blame National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow I don\u2019t know what words we might use for that sort of behaviour, but I think it completely lacks integrity. It completely lacks integrity, and the Minister of Corrections\u2019 performance at the select committee was truly bizarre. The only answer he could give the select committee was, \u201CI\u2019m perfectly happy that Waikeria Prison will be built by a PPP.\u201D Well, New Zealanders deserve far better in the justice sector than that sort of dishonesty. If that\u2019s the sort of behaviour we\u2019re getting from the Minister of Corrections, what sort of role model is he setting for the honesty that, actually, our justice system depends on? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to make some comment about the so-called electoral integrity law. I would love the Minister in the chair to please answer the question as to where the integrity is in members of the Green Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277ea023aa57c4e988bb49375097fcb34\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That did not come up in the Estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227700222f44a84dc7ac884d26162d7f83\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, actually, the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill is on the Minister\u2019s work programme for this financial year. It is part of the Estimates, Madam Chair, and I\u2019m perfectly entitled to raise it and I\u2019m perfectly entitled\u2014as much as the Government wants to shut down the debate\u2014[Interruption] As much as the Government wants to shut down the debate, it is completely lacking integrity for a bill changing 330 years of constitutional history to pass it without a majority of support in this House\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022af5a6179f1404bbab8f7c421d1f8a301\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af5a6179f1404bbab8f7c421d1f8a301\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana e Maine Vaa Tuatua. Madam Chair, it\u2019s a great pleasure to get up and speak. The member who just spoke, the Hon Dr Nick Smith, spoke of bizarre behaviour of members of this House, and I want to acknowledge his leadership in one thing at least, and that is he is the leader of bizarre behaviour of members in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ELet me respond to a couple of things that he has said, because if you want a class\u2014a lesson\u2014in disingenuous behaviour, then that member\u2019s speech just now is it. So he lamented this public-private partnership over Waikeria Prison, completely ignoring the fact that millions upon millions of dollars of work had been done, designing an American-style mega-prison to house 2,500 prisoners under his Government\u2019s watch. They signed up a procurement agreement with the outfit who was doing the design, who would go on to do the build, and who it was intended would run that prison. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261a16866ad784683a7efb729e0a0b406\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Ah! Now the truth comes out\u2014the real story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262f6d2ff86c94d809744915930ebc152\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: He missed that out. It\u2019s funny that that member missed that stuff out. But he, not very artfully, fails to distinguish between the long-term procurement agreement that his Government signed with the builder of the prison and a contract to deal with the specific facility once there was agreement on what was going to be built. He ignores completely the exit payment that would be required from the procurement agreement if we did not proceed with that construction firm with that particular prison\u2014missed all that out. That\u2019s the lesson in disingenuity that that member is an absolute master of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWell, the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill\u2014let me say that if he wants a lesson in a lack of integrity, then let\u2019s look at those National MPs who earlier this year trumpeted to the public at large that they were going to vote for the member\u2019s bill on medicinal cannabis and when it came to the vote, all National MPs voted exactly the same way, which was contrary to what the indications were of the particular MPs who said they would do something differently. That member\u2019s got nothing to worry about. Nothing will change in the National Party as a result of the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill\u2014apart, perhaps, from his own seat. Perhaps he is afraid that members of his own caucus\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022531c8d9b8b0a4611a9ebaa00dd174433\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a2a89fdead94db59c19b57bb557a6a7\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014will not be afraid to do what the members of the National Party will do\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2efede9ec054f969b831229f3fe90b8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the honourable Minister. If he could stick to the Estimates\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a53e2b74a65041a7b199b125d8a913c0\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just take a moment to talk about some very important things in the justice portfolio\u2014for example, the fact that in this year\u2019s Budget there\u2019s extra money for youth justice facilities and for the youth justice system, because what we do there is absolutely vital to make sure that the pipeline of young people who would otherwise head off to adult prison is curtailed and we do the right thing at the right time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ECan I acknowledge, also, in this Budget, a 20 percent increase in the funding for community law centres\u2014the front door of legal access for so many New Zealanders. It\u2019s important that we maintain and strengthen that network of support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ECan I also refer to the $50 million in new operating funding for the court system, because it is important that we have an environment in which courts can dispense justice, in which lawyers can do their job, the judges can do their job, victims can be safe, and the offenders can be managed correctly and properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ECan I also say that we\u2019ve had to provide extra funding to undo the disastrous Judith Collins Family Court reforms. We\u2019ve now got a review going under way on that, because we\u2019ve got to fix that up because far too many New Zealanders are being harmed and damaged by the 2014 Judith Collins reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EFinally, and Parliament has already, under this head, talked about the criminal justice reforms\u2014when you look at what this Government was faced with when it took office: a rapidly rising prison population, more and more people on remand, more people in prison than ever before, more and more people serving longer sentences. But here\u2019s the thing: no plan to deal with it. No plan to deal with the underlying issues; just build another American-style mega-prison. That was the only response they had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EYet, when you have a look at what\u2019s happening in our prison population\u2014more than a third of them with depression and anxiety; nearly half of them with addiction problems; so many with traumatic brain injuries, many of them undiagnosed; and many of them themselves victims of violence\u2014it\u2019s time we had a prison system and a justice system that dealt with the underlying problems. We fix prisoners, we stop them reoffending, then we have fewer victims of crime. That\u2019s about community safety, that\u2019s about a better way of running a justice system, and we\u2019re doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad7e9ac60aed4ed4a41c050e1f5f4fbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad7e9ac60aed4ed4a41c050e1f5f4fbb\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Before I go into the report from the Justice Committee, I just want to go into a couple of things that the National Party members have been saying. Mr Bennett stood up and he spoke for about half of his five minutes, rambling on about how much of an issue the huge prison population was. He was asking the Minister of Justice, \u201CWhat\u2019s the Minister going to do about it? The Minister can\u2019t fix it.\u201D But then he started saying things like that it was over 10,000 and in a couple of years it\u2019s going to be over 14,000. It beggars belief that he is actually standing there while he\u2019s making his speech, thinking that this has all been caused over the last nine months and that anything that we\u2019ve done over this side of the Chamber has caused that horrendous corrections hand grenade to be lobbed over our way. It is demonstrable that it has taken at least the nine years that that National Party was in Government and that it caused the very issues that he\u2019s complaining about now. He started spouting off about the mental health issues and the rehabilitation, and how we\u2019re going to fix that. He talked about the rehabilitation rates in general and how we\u2019re going to fix that. And then he puts it all on us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EYeah, it is all on us because we\u2019re in Government right now, and we\u2019re doing something about it. All of the Ministers in the sector have put forward a plan not only for this Budget coming forward but for the rest of the term as well, and we\u2019re going to do something about it. We\u2019ve got an actual ambitious goal. That\u2019s probably what\u2019s surprising for the likes of Mr Bennett and the other backbenchers sitting over that side of the Chamber: the ambitious nature\u2014the challenging nature\u2014that we have when we set goals like 30 percent reduction in the prison population. But we don\u2019t look at the mountain and say that it\u2019s too high; we come up with a plan, and we come up with policy that backs that up as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EWhat Mr Mitchell said when he spoke\u2014and he was actually first to respond to the Minister. He said that he came into this House as an MP to make it better, more safe, and not to make it less safe for the public of New Zealand. Well, perhaps he just needs to look over the last nine years. First of all\u2014I\u2019ve already mentioned the increase in prison numbers\u2014the decrease in the police numbers under that Government. It wasn\u2019t just a decrease in the rate of police numbers being added; they actually had a decrease over the term\u2014a decrease over the term. So when we\u2019ve got another aspirational, ambitious, challenging target of putting 1,800 new front-line police onto the streets, all they want to do is complain\u2014all they want to do is complain. How many police did the National Party end up adding over the last nine years? Minus 16.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242550777e4ed4fb9a9f86ec44dc762b3\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: It went down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222000ccf4ebb34b58b74ae627ce24becd\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: Minus 16. It went down, and all we\u2019ve been hearing is complaining about when and why and how we want to have 1,800 new police. What their excuse is when they don\u2019t like it is that, apparently, 1,800 new police is going to cause more prisoners and it\u2019s going to cause more crimes. Well, if you look at it one-dimensionally like that, perhaps they\u2019ll be correct, but we look at it in multidimensional facets over this side of the Chamber. There will be a couple of hundred more beds that are needed because of the police that\u2019ve been put on the front line, because they\u2019re there to combat the crime that is being committed right now: but for the added front-line being put out there, that crime would go undetected. That\u2019s what the National Party is saying. That\u2019s what the National Party wants us to accept\u2014that\u2019s what the National Party wants us to accept\u2014but it\u2019s very important to note that, actually, the Commissioner of Police, during these hearings, told us that New Zealand\u2019s operating model focuses on preventing harm and crime in the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EOne of the questions when Mr David Bennett stood up was, \u201CHow are you going to do it? How are you going to reduce the prison population by that much?\u201D Well, there\u2019s a new word\u2014perhaps it\u2019s new for that member, but it\u2019s not for this side of the Chamber\u2014it\u2019s called prevention, and that\u2019s one of the major roles that police officers have in this country. They don\u2019t just go out there and arrest and be reactive like that Government thought they did and how that Government utilised our men and women in blue. They\u2019re there to prevent, and that\u2019s what they\u2019re going to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI can\u2019t go through all of the good things that this Government\u2019s going to be doing with this appropriation in these sections in five minutes, but we will deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1b5ed178d224d28b6d864769a1c5d2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1b5ed178d224d28b6d864769a1c5d2e\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I\u2019m surprised that member, Darroch Ball, managed to get to five minutes, to be honest, with all the Government\u2019s doing in terms of the appropriation, because this Government is\u2014[Interruption] They are doing some things, and what they\u2019re doing is cutting successful and innovative programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI want to get to that in my remarks on the Estimates, but I, firstly, want to start with the Vote Police appropriation about\u2014well, it claims to be for 1,800 new police over the next three years, and that\u2019s the big coalition commitment between New Zealand First\u2014Darroch Ball\u2019s party\u2014and Labour, that will add 1,800 front-line police. Well, we had the interesting experience in the Justice Committee of the Minister of Police, Stuart Nash, turning up and actually admitting to the committee that despite his press release trumpeting $298.8 million in additional operational expenditure over the next four years, this was not enough to deliver the 1,800 police over three years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe had this comical exchange with Mr Nash where he said, \u201CWell, I\u2019m going to go back to Mr Robertson and I\u2019m going to have to ask for more money. I don\u2019t exactly know how much more, but I\u2019ll have to go and get some more.\u201D So the Minister, in his own words, admits that not enough money has been appropriated. I might just add, in passing, that the $298.8 million over four years is a considerable increase on Labour\u2019s pre-election estimates of $40 million being required for their promises around extra police\u2014or, it was $40 million on one occasion, then it turned into $80 million, and I think there was $140 million thrown in there at some point. It\u2019s certainly not $298.8 million. So, as with many other things, the Labour Party have proved that they can\u2019t count. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EBut then we get to the point about how long it will take for these police to be delivered. Minister Stuart Nash is fond of saying \u201CWe\u2019re striving to do it within three years.\u201D Well, that\u2019s all well and good, except we know that he received official advice from his officials about phasing the extra police in over five years, not three years. We had this, again, very comical exchange in the select committee, in which Stuart Nash, the Minister of Police, openly admitted to the committee that he hadn\u2019t even read that advice. Members opposite may disagree, but on this side of the House, we just find that extraordinary. Frankly, it is treating the Parliament with contempt. It is treating the public with contempt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ELook, members opposite and members on this side of the House will disagree with official advice. Any Government is entitled to disagree with official advice put by its officials. The advice is contestable. Ministers are perfectly entitled to do different things, but at the very least, I do not think it is unreasonable for the public to expect Ministers to read advice. I\u2019ve worked in a Minister\u2019s office. I know there\u2019s a lot of paperwork. I know it\u2019s a tough job. I know that Stuart Nash is the Minister of Fisheries as well as the Minister of Police, but at the very least, I think members\u2014on this side of the House, certainly\u2014think it is perfectly reasonable to expect Ministers to read advice. But we had this extraordinary situation of Stuart Nash saying \u201CI didn\u2019t even read it. Paid it no attention. Didn\u2019t even read it.\u201D I just find that remarkable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo that deals with the 1,800 new police. I also want to talk about the highly regrettable funding cuts to the mental health and police co-response pilot, which has been highlighted in the public\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216e1602a3e2047f2ae86baaa808d2a56\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Fake news, fake news\u2014making it up, making it up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022864065bc45fa4438b52ae1418e0c71c9\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014over the last couple of weeks. Again, we asked\u2014well, he\u2019s saying, \u201CBack it up.\u201D Well, the backing it up\u2014it\u2019s in the Minister\u2019s own written Estimates answers, Mr Jones. We asked Mr Nash, through the Estimates process, what the status of the programme was, and the answer came back: \u201CIt doesn\u2019t exist any more.\u201D It\u2019s gone. The money\u2014I think the exact phrase was \u201CThe funding has been reallocated to other priorities.\u201D An $8 million programme instituted by the previous Government\u2014it hadn\u2019t quite got off the ground yet. It was due to start in a couple of months. In September, it was due to start. It was universally supported by everyone in the sector. There\u2019s not a mental health worker out there or a police officer who wouldn\u2019t say that this is a fantastic initiative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn fact, we had this extraordinary situation of the Minister sitting next to the Commissioner of Police, and the police commissioner, in the Estimates hearing, said, \u201COh, I\u2019m actually very hopeful it will continue.\u201D But no, no, this Government knows best. Stuart Nash and David Clark have decided that $8 million, which, frankly, the Government has spent in the 30 seconds I\u2019ve just spent talking about this issue\u2014they\u2019ve decided that the money can be reallocated better to fees-free education for middle-class kids to go to university for free, or something like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo, frankly, the cutting of this programme is a disgrace. The fact that the decision to cut it has been universally panned should make the Government pause and reflect and reinstitute it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI haven\u2019t even covered the cutting of very important targets around 24/7 police stations, or around attending burglaries within 48 hours\u201498 percent of them within 48 hours. All of these programmes and all of these important targets have been cut by this disgraceful Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00226c3e4a6e015f4130913fe7865c6bdbab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c3e4a6e015f4130913fe7865c6bdbab\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Under this coalition Government, we are in the process of delivering the greatest increase in the New Zealand Police service in its history: 1,800 more front-line officers are heading to our communities, and it is not only 1,800 more front-line officers, but 485 back-office staff as well. Now, how did this come about? Well, how it came about is because in the last annual plan of the previous Government, it actually said in the appendices, \u201CThere will be no more police until at least 2020, and we expect police to do more with less.\u201D\u2014no more police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis was at a stage where, in the last workplace survey, 60 percent of respondents\u2014so these are front-line officers\u2014said that they experienced an undue level of workplace stress, and only 40 percent of these officers said that they were meeting the promises that they were making to our community. But the surprising thing was you had over 80 percent of officers saying that they were completely committed to the New Zealand Police service and committed to the communities they served. So what we had was a group of men and women who were passionate about the job they did. They knew what needed to be done to keep our communities safe, but they just did not have the resources. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe problem is when you get 60 percent of a workforce saying they have an undue level of workplace stress, then cracks begin to appear. What happens is that partners\u2014their husbands, their wives, their partners\u2014say \u201CI know you love your job, dear, but I can\u2019t put up with this level of stress. I can\u2019t put up with you coming home every single day absolutely stressed.\u201D So something had to change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESomething had to change, and I\u2019ll tell you what that change is. For the second time, Labour and New Zealand First came together and said, \u201CWe really need to drive change in this area. We need to do something differently.\u201D We\u2019re using technology pretty well\u2014that\u2019s a given\u2014but the thing that we knew was going to make a difference was actually having more men and women on the front line, keeping our communities safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWhat I will say is everyone from the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister down buys into the police\u2019s operating model of Prevention First. This is about having men and women on the front line, working in our communities, and engrained within our communities and knowing what is going on, to the point where they can make decisions at a very early stage, as opposed to fighting fires and locking people up. That is not the way to run a modern police service, and it\u2019s certainly created huge problems for our whole justice sector. So 1,800 more police is what we said we\u2019d deliver, and we\u2019ll do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ENow the interesting thing is I have said that I have only two key performance indicators (KPIs) for the Commissioner of Police. One is 80 percent trust and confidence\u2014i.e., 80 percent of our communities have trust and confidence in the New Zealand Police force. That is also one of the commissioner\u2019s KPIs. The only other KPI that I said I want from a governance perspective is that 90 percent of the New Zealand Police officers say that they have the resources they need to deliver on the promises they make to their Government. That is up from the 40 percent that it was under that Government, and it was only going to get worse because there were going to be no more police for at least three more years\u2014three more years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ENow I understand my role. I understand my role. My role as the Minister of Police is to ensure that our men and women on the front line have the resources they need to keep our communities safe. That is my role. The role of the Commissioner of Police is to determine how to best allocate those resources. The Commissioner of Police has been in the New Zealand Police service for 40 years\u2014for 40 years. Imagine me coming to the commissioner and saying, \u201CYou must do this. You must allocate your men and women here. You\u2019ve got to keep that station open 24/7.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWell, I suspect that the commissioner knows more about policing than I do. I suspect that the men and women who are in charge of our policing districts know more about how to best allocate their resources to keep our communities safe. So I am not going to tell our police officers how to run operationally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s get down to this mental health pilot. If that member Chris Bishop really wants to know about this, in the last Budget, there was $100 million of unappropriated money\u2014$100 million unappropriated. So when they talk about a scheme, they hadn\u2019t even allocated any money to it. There was no money in the Budget for it. There was no money in the Budget for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3f9d623cf1a430798a963b0c957444d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3f9d623cf1a430798a963b0c957444d\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana e Maine Vaa Tuatua. It is indeed a pleasure to rise and take a call to speak to the Appropriation (2018/19 Estimates) Bill in its committee stage, looking at the votes that sit within the ambit of the justice sector. Now we just heard from the Minister of Police, who said that we need to do something different, and that was actually a running theme that we heard from Ministers who spoke to the Justice Committee, as well. In fact, there\u2019s a quote that\u2019s been attributed to, I think, Albert Einstein that, basically, says that \u201CDoing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of madness\u201D, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EAnd that\u2019s what we have seen. For too long, we have seen a previous Government that has pursued justice policies and shaped public discourse around the idea that we should just be locking up more and more people and giving them tougher, longer sentences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWe have heard, from previous speakers on this side of the House this evening, that that doesn\u2019t work. That has resulted in what our Ministers of this coalition Government have inherited\u2014so, basically, increasing violent criminal offending, the fact that our reoffending rate has pretty much stayed at about 60 percent, and the fact that our prison population is ballooning. So, basically, we\u2019ve got a criminal justice system that has failed, and we need to do something different. And that\u2019s what this coalition Government is committed to, and that\u2019s what we heard from successive Ministers who spoke at the select committee: that we want meaningful, sustainable change within the criminal justice system. We want to reduce reoffending, reduce offending, and also ensure that we have fewer victims of crime. We need a criminal justice system that holds offenders accountable but that also looks at how we can provide better rehabilitation and reintegration so that, when these people are outside of the prison system, they\u2019re actually able to reintegrate better into our communities. We also need to support victims better, and that\u2019s what we\u2019ve seen in terms of Budget 2018 allocations, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from the justice Minister that there will be a package of reforms that will be shaped by the criminal justice summit. This will, basically, be a much better public discourse. It\u2019ll be a national conversation that will bring together victims of crime, victim advocates, those who have worked at the front lines, from different backgrounds, people who have experience in the criminal justice sector, and experts in the field, to then come up with reform proposals\u2014what are we going to do, what are some of the possible solutions, informed by evidence rather than led by some arbitrary targets that the previous Government set, half of which weren\u2019t even met. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard from the Minister that there was a Safer Ethnic Communities Ministerial Forum that aimed to also better that conversation and ensure that various aspects of our diverse communities understand what the priorities are that this Government has, and also have the opportunity to feed into some of those possible solutions and put forth their experiences of the criminal justice sector as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo what did we hear from Ministers in terms of holding offenders to account? We\u2019ve actually just heard from the police Minister about the commitment to increase the number of new police officers in New Zealand. We\u2019ve also heard from the member Darroch Ball that, actually, the previous Government cut the number of police officers that we\u2019ve had. So this goal of increasing police numbers by 1,800 is ambitious. The Minister acknowledged that at the select committee process, as well. He explained that it would enable the deployment of 1,100 police on the streets, 700 to combat organised crime, and would be supported by 485 non-sworn staff as well. Budget 2018 takes the first step towards that. All our Ministers who spoke at the select committee acknowledged that one Budget will not fix the mess that\u2019s been inherited\u2014the mess that was created, largely, over the last decade. But this Budget takes the first step towards that, and that\u2019s important to note.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWe also heard an assurance from the Minister that the quality of police\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00222bf8eaa9da55437093fe62aadab949f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bf8eaa9da55437093fe62aadab949f2\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to speak in relation, particularly, to the subject of courts within the justice portfolio. I refer, of course, to the Estimates process and, particularly, the discussion that I had, along with other members of the Justice Committee\u2014myself not being a permanent member thereof, but attending for the purpose of that hearing\u2014with the Minister of Justice, Andrew Little. I\u2019d like to touch on a couple of key points in particular. One is the relationship between the Parliament and the courts. I\u2019ll be using the three-strikes rule and its application as an example within that, and some thoughts that the Minister has around \u201Cmechanistic sentencing\u201D, as he describes it. So that\u2019s the first area that I will be discussing. The second is the discussion about having a plan for reform, or a lack thereof, in relation to targets being set, or rather not being set, in the justice sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EBefore I get on to that, I\u2019d like to mention, at least in passing, the fact that what\u2019s not being said throughout this process is really in relation to courts reform that will improve the timeliness of decision making. That would be the first place that this Government should start if it is serious about its stated goal of reducing the population of the prisons by 30 percent. That would be a relatively easy win, at least on the remand side, and so I encourage the Government and the relevant Minister, in particular, to give some thought to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAlso, as a footnote but very relevant to the discussion in the justice sector, and, particularly, again, on the subject of courts, I\u2019d like to recommend to the Government that they continue\u2014and, indeed, extend\u2014the alcohol and other drug treatment courts. I think it\u2019s widely acknowledged around this House and, indeed, by those in the sector, that these have been very successful on the trial basis where they\u2019re currently implemented. I acknowledge the work of the previous Government but also Judge Lisa Tremewan for her leadership in that regard, getting those under way. I\u2019ve seen them in operation myself. I\u2019ve gone to visit them. I do commend to the Government\u2014indeed, implore them\u2014to roll out what is needed by way of funding and resources to extend those throughout the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo, speaking, as I say, on the subject of the relationship between the Parliament and the courts, it\u2019s probably more in sorrow than in anger that I note some of the comments of the Minister for Courts at that hearing\u2014in particular, the false choice that was made between having people in prison who have offended as against completing rehabilitation. Of course, it\u2019s a false choice, because it\u2019s the very opportunity that we have, through placing people who should be in prison for the sake of the wider community, and also for their sake, in the sense that they can receive the rehabilitation while they are detained at Her Majesty\u2019s pleasure. So I would challenge the Government not to be ideological on the subject of imprisonment and actually view it as a genuine opportunity to reform lives for their good and indeed for the good of the whole community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESpeaking to the subject of the relationship between Parliament and the courts, I was seeking to make the point through a series of questions to the Minister for Courts that, while he is of course correct in saying that Parliament speaks to the courts through legislation, that doesn\u2019t mean that we should not set strict boundaries in terms of what the community\u2019s expectations are\u2014that is, the community whom we represent here in the House of Representatives. Indeed, it is precisely because of our democratic mandate to make laws and not apply them that we must be mindful of our role in directing the courts to appropriate sentencing and, indeed, criminal procedure in general.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe three-strikes law, it is well accepted, has been applied in a way that, I would say, is unexpected, to use perhaps a euphemistic phrase for the situation that has arisen, whereby manifestly unjust exceptions have, in fact, become the rule. Statistically, that is the case; certainly in the case of subsequent-strike murders, every single one has seen that exception invoked. So I would challenge the Minister of Justice to think about how law reform could be made\u2014far from scrapping that programme, as he has indicated that he would like to do, notwithstanding that he was stopped by a coalition partner, but actually to give serious thought to how that law could actually be applied as Parliament intended and what he could say to the courts, again through legislation, to achieve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFinally, in my brief remaining time, I would encourage the Minister to get serious about setting targets and not simply set up a process of review to inform the fact that there are targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022db0ad04a32fd41f0896895e4855395d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db0ad04a32fd41f0896895e4855395d7\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise to speak on the justice sector. It\u2019s a sector that\u2019s close to my heart, having worked for most of my working life, before sitting in this Chamber, in that sector. It is an expensive sector, both in real terms, in the cost to victims, to their wh\u0101nau, to their communities, and in terms of broad social harm, as we\u2019re forced to remove more and more people and lock them up. And it is expensive in terms of the bottom line. So to know all the failures that came through this sector as the previous administration refused to change tack as the evidence mounted against its tough-on-crime approach to imprisonment, in particular, is heartbreaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EIn fact, all that approach did was make politicians look tough. It did nothing to keep our communities safer. It blew up our prison populations, costing us billions upon billions that could\u2019ve been spent on preventing crime, on treating addiction, mental health\u2014all the things that we know cause people to commit crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWhile I watched our justice system be gutted, while the previous Government\u2019s legal aid policy was declared unlawful by the Court of Appeal, while community law centres lost most of their mandate and funding\u2014the stats speak pretty loudly against all of that. In the annual reviews earlier this year, we found that serious crime went up in almost every category: serious sexual assault and violent crime, including homicide, went up; illicit drug offending went up. In fact, methamphetamine offending\u2014in terms of supply, manufacture, and importation\u2014is about to overtake cannabis offending in our courts. Imagine if we\u2019d taken an addiction healthcare approach to drug offending and treated the source of the problem, which is addiction. But we didn\u2019t. Robbery and theft went up, and offences involving offensive weapons went up by a whopping 20 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EOur communities were being made less and less safe as we were locking people up, and that\u2019s callous policy. Recidivism was at about 50 percent. So we know that we weren\u2019t taking the opportunity, while we had people in custody, to help them overcome the issues that had led them down that path. So we locked them up, in Serco-run prisons often\u2014in Auckland, at least, where I\u2019m from\u2014and I know that rehabilitation programmes weren\u2019t really there. I know that people were, essentially, being unlawfully held, because they weren\u2019t able to become eligible for parole because they weren\u2019t able to complete the courses they needed to complete. That\u2019s courses as simple as literacy courses but also in terms of drug and alcohol treatment, in terms of anger management treatment. What a lost opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo now we are changing that. I am delighted to see that instead of building the American-style mega-prison at Waikeria, we\u2019re actually building a smaller prison that includes a mental health unit. So we are investing in what we know will make our communities safer once we release people, instead of holding them for longer and longer and longer, and then releasing them as more hardened criminals\u2014again, callous policy-making. Ignoring the evidence is dangerous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re investing in probation officers, in service managers, and in psychologists to make sure that people on bail and on parole are supported into a crime-free life. We\u2019re putting 20 percent extra money into community law centres, reviewing their mandate, and consulting with the actual sector, because we know that access to justice is important at that level. We\u2019re also investing in youth justice, and this is a subject that\u2019s close to my heart, because it is actually one of our biggest violations in both the justice and the child rights sector. We\u2019re investing in finally\u2014finally\u2014facilitating a move of 17-year-olds\u2014children\u2014out of the adult criminal justice system, out of adult prisons, and I welcome that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee793a3023cf4bc2ab0d976445cdc209\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee793a3023cf4bc2ab0d976445cdc209\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E I want to speak to one particular aspect of the Estimates, and that concerns the Attorney-General\u2019s appearance before the Justice Committee. I must confess, it\u2019s my misfortune to have to follow on from the Green MP Golriz Ghahraman, whose speech was nothing more than melodramatic and formulaic drivel. There is a lot that I could talk about in her third-grade effort, but I would rather concentrate on what could be, potentially, an important issue. It\u2019s one I\u2019ve raised with the Attorney-General offline, but I do need to get it on the record so that if it all blows up, at least I can say, \u201CI told you so.\u201D\u2014not you, Mr Chair, but I mean that in a general sense. It concerns temporary judges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe previous administration decided that temporary judges were constitutionally improper, and so when the courts legislation was reformed a couple of years ago, the new District Court Act provided that one could no longer appoint temporary judges. The former Attorney-General Dr Cullen had appointed quite a number of temporary judges, and at one stage I think there were 22 temporary judges who were appointed for fixed terms. What normally happened would be that District Court judges on a temporary warrant would be made permanent after a period of time. Toward the end of the National Party\u2019s term in office, we decided that one could no longer simply increase the number of judges every couple of years\u2014although the cap had gone up from 156 to 160 when the new District Courts legislation was passed\u2014and that one needed to have a sensible assessment of just what the population projections were, so that there could be a proper discussion about the cap. That work, I understand, is almost completed now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAt the present time, we have nine temporary judges whose terms are going to expire between the end of this year and about June next year. My concern is that their terms may expire before this Parliament has had a chance to look at the question of the judicial cap, or whether indeed there should be a judicial cap, because what we\u2019re seeing is that District Court judges continue to be appointed but they are being appointed as permanent judges, and that the temporary judges stay in that limbo state of temporary judges. So there is, at least, a possibility that those persons\u2019 terms could come to an end and then they cease to be judges, and that could cause problems for the administration of justice. So I think the Government is going to need to get on with this matter pretty urgently, to complete the piece of work that has been done, as between Mr Little\u2019s ministry and the Chief District Court Judge, on a judicial resourcing model, and then make some decisions about what the cap is to be, so that if Parliament needs to move to increase that cap to protect the position of those temporary judges, it can do so, and those judges will not necessarily cease to be holding judicial warrants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a rather arcane but very important point that this Parliament may need to address at relatively short notice. I\u2019ve been given to understand that there\u2019s no problem, but I think there could be a problem, and that at least a number of temporary judges\u2019 warrants will come to an end. Of course, we did not approve of temporary judges, because it\u2019s unconstitutional for the executive to be appointing people to the judiciary for, say, a term of two years, because the implication\u2014or, at least, the fear\u2014is that people will say, \u201CWell, if that person\u2019s appointed a judge, in order to get a permanent warrant he or she has to please the executive.\u201D The important thing is that as soon as judges are appointed, they should be able, as a separate branch of government, to get on with the role of judging, without fear or favour in terms of what the executive wants. But it\u2019s very important that they not be appointed for fixed terms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo that was the rationale about why temporary judges, as a category, were disestablished, but there is this small remaining group. We need to make sure that if the cap is to be increased, it can be increased in such time that these people do not lose their warrants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ab3ad771b7d0447988bd19e69f381739\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote Attorney-General, Vote Corrections, Vote Courts, Vote Justice, Vote Parliamentary Counsel, Vote Police, and Vote Serious Fraud be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVotes agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a44c0e637124a2da4a430acda89cc44\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Affairs Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022da0945686b9b4191b097539ed08470fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da0945686b9b4191b097539ed08470fe\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to votes in the M\u0101ori affairs sector, B.5, Volume 8. The question is that Vote M\u0101ori Development and Vote Treaty Negotiations stand part of the schedules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa00d14f013b4ffcb0c17195a0ccbd66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa00d14f013b4ffcb0c17195a0ccbd66\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Chairperson of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. Kia ora. Kia orana. I am pleased to lead off this part of the Estimates debate where we are covering M\u0101ori Affairs, and in particular two votes: Vote M\u0101ori Development and Vote Treaty Negotiations. I do want to acknowledge the Ministers that made themselves available to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u2014in particular, the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, the Minister for M\u0101ori Development, who is ably assisted by Minister Peeni Henare, who is responsible for the Wh\u0101nau Ora appropriation. Also, I want to acknowledge Minister Little, the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, and we also extended our hearings to include Minister Davis, who gave us a very helpful briefing on the new Crown/M\u0101ori Relations portfolio.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EOne thing that is very clear, which the Ministers conveyed to our committee, is that this is about a coalition joined-up approach to ensure that we lift up M\u0101ori in all areas\u2014in particular, socially and economically; and, likewise, the well-being of all New Zealanders. So what we have seen is that through the M\u0101ori Development vote the business of Government continues. We have legislation, and we have existing strategies in votes that are in place that have continued under the stewardship of Minister Mahuta. We have seen that in the Te Reo M\u0101ori area, whereby the votes for those appropriations are roughly on a par with the previous year\u2014$98 million to Te Reo, including M\u0101ori Television broadcast. In the Wh\u0101nau Ora space there has been a consistency of funding, with $80 million for Wh\u0101nau Ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBut, likewise, we have seen new priorities that have been identified by the Minister, and that has come through in the areas of papak\u0101inga housing development, again continuing on the existence of the M\u0101ori Housing Network that has been established under the previous Government, but with a focus on papak\u0101inga housing, assisting M\u0101ori land owners, and that work ties alongside the broader housing work, which we are doing under Minister Twyford with increases to social housing and likewise our KiwiBuild. So a lot of the initiatives that are a priority to the Minister are working alongside the broader objectives of this coalition Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIf we look again, the Minister has also identified, through $37 million of those new priorities, work in the whenua M\u0101ori space whereby we will be seeing further amendments and support for M\u0101ori land owners to achieve their aspirations, and these are all tied in with the overall activities which are working across that sector\u2014gosh, time goes quick. Ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI would like to also acknowledge Minister Little, who\u2019s doing some outstanding work in the Treaty negotiations area. I would say that he is continuing along the momentum that was laid down by the Hon Chris Finlayson in that area, and I value the work that he is doing\u2014in particular, dealing with some very complex issues, but making good progress with Ng\u0101puhi and also the work in the marine and coastal area space, which is another big area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo there is sustained effort being applied to increase M\u0101ori well-being socially and economically across the vote sectors. It ties in with the wider and the broader work programme that we have as a Government. As the Ministers pointed out during our Estimates hearings, a lot of this work ties in with the regional economic development work of Minister Jones and Minister Whaitiri, likewise the rangatahi work that is going on and is also tied along with Minister Jackson and Minister Mahuta working closely together there. So there is support from the committee to the votes across both these areas, and I commend their work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6ee592f061e471e83655ed67bb9d54f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6ee592f061e471e83655ed67bb9d54f\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana e Te Kaiwhakahaere. He mihi atu ki a koe, huri noa i Te Whare nei, he mihi atu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Chair. I greet you and all those in the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ECan I, first of all, acknowledge the Minister for M\u0101ori Development in the chair, the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, and also the Hon Andrew Little, the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations. I\u2019m going to concentrate more on the M\u0101ori development part, because my learned colleague, the former Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, I am sure will actually have an input into the Treaty negotiations part of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker, my whanauka, but also our chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, Rino Tirikatene\u2014I\u2019m glad that you and I can actually agree to disagree, because of the fact that we on this side of the House, particularly where M\u0101ori development is concerned, to us, this particular Budget, these Estimate appropriations, are actually a travesty. When we look at the fact that when we were in Government, the narrative at that time was, \u201CWhat is good for M\u0101ori is actually good for all New Zealand.\u201D So when we look at the Labour-led coalition that we have here at present, what we have as a narrative is, \u201CWhat\u2019s good for New Zealand is actually good for M\u0101ori.\u201D So the whole narrative has been turned around. So when I look at the appropriations for the Budget 2018 and the Estimates for Vote M\u0101ori Development, the main thing that strikes me most about that is there is a lack of a real and apparent plan. There is no real clear initiative, either, for our M\u0101ori voters. So that is why our M\u0101ori voters, when we\u2019ve looked at this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baa0bf52f5b74370a1599881b9b0adc5\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why they voted for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273b376e8abb34946956ed47dc2c26716\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO\u003C/span\u003E: No, because basically what they\u2019ve actually done is\u2014they actually feel betrayed. They really feel betrayed. Because what they were promised pre - 2017 election was that there was going to be transparency and there was actually going to be a lot more money put into M\u0101ori development, and what they got, when you look at this Budget, is zilch. Actually, it\u2019s decreased, but I\u2019ll come to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EBut the other part, too, is that when you all went to R\u0101tana and when you went to Waitangi you said, \u201CHold us to account.\u201D\u2014that\u2019s what your leader said. So look out when you go back there next year and even when you get there in November, because you will definitely be held up and told that this is the situation now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ESo coming back to the Estimates, when the former Labour Government Minister John Tamihere publicly states in his column that no amount of spin by Labour\u2019s 13-strong M\u0101ori caucus\u2014five of whom are Ministers and in Cabinet\u2014can hide the fact that Budget 2018 for M\u0101ori has been cut by this Labour Government. You\u2019ve got to get worried when that actually happens. M\u0101ori are aware that this Government are treating them as though they\u2019re really ignorant and that they actually can\u2019t count, and I\u2019ll tell you why. When you look at the Minister for M\u0101ori Development, I mean, she has actually stated in the House that the appropriations for the 2018 Budget have not decreased\u2014they have not decreased. So this is why our people get upset. It is because the fact is, when you look at it now, in our M\u0101ori Affairs Committee report that these are all based on, the situation is that it has actually been cut by 4 percent. There\u2019s a 4 percent decrease. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ESo when we look at the 2018-19 total\u2014$316.421 million. And then when we look at the 2017-18 Estimates\u2014$328.727 million, that\u2019s a 4 percent cut. So that, there, is what this is about. And when we look at it, that\u2019s only in the first year\u2014the 4 percent\u2014the second year, and third year, and fourth year is going to be another 6 percent. So let\u2019s highlight this, too. The fact is that the budget for M\u0101ori development over the next four years has actually been cut by 10 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00229696b8d3bb0742d2a3b52d6fccd90e22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229696b8d3bb0742d2a3b52d6fccd90e22\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Associate Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E That\u2019s a shocking speech from a very good man, Nuk Koroko\u2014one of the best people in the National Party, but, sadly, a very shocking and sad speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ELook, I need to say this slowly. First of all, can I mihi to our Minister for M\u0101ori Development, doing a great job, and our chair, Rino Tirikatene. I need to say this slowly for the Opposition. I\u2019ll do it really slowly for the Opposition: M\u0101ori people aren\u2019t all part of M\u0101ori Development. M\u0101ori people: most don\u2019t speak M\u0101ori. Most M\u0101ori people are not affiliated with M\u0101ori organisations. Minister Finlayson knows this. Most M\u0101ori people just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d135988e1bc409fb53e0e831b8e7ad9\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not a Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d4596e15ed0460e9abb5e6efb73c011\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the former Minister. Thank God for that too. But, in terms of where M\u0101ori are, they\u2019re not part of M\u0101ori organisations. We want them all speaking Te Reo. We want them all part of Wh\u0101nau Ora. We want them to all watch M\u0101ori Television. We want them to all listen to M\u0101ori radio. But they don\u2019t\u2014but they don\u2019t. So Nuk Koroko needs to get it through his head that we have to legislate for the majority of people. We don\u2019t live our world around a measly M\u0101ori-targeted budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe Opposition has to understand that most M\u0101ori want good housing and they want jobs. This is what we campaigned on, not the measly M\u0101ori-targeted budget. It\u2019s a measly amount. So don\u2019t hang your hat on a M\u0101ori budget while the whole world is falling down, because that\u2019s what the M\u0101ori Party did. They said, \u201CWe got $100 million.\u201D Meanwhile, they sold of State house rentals. Meanwhile, they had the dirty, rotten, filthy Te Ture Whenua M\u0101ori Bill. Meanwhile they had k\u014Dhanga reo and never paid equity funding there. The whole world\u2019s falling down and Nuk and his M\u0101ori Party friends hang their hat on a measly M\u0101ori budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori are everywhere. M\u0101ori are in Porirua and they\u2019re in Wellington. They don\u2019t know about that targeted budget, Nuk; they just know about their bills day to day. And so, therefore, you have to legislate for the majority of M\u0101ori. The majority of M\u0101ori, sadly, are not into taha M\u0101ori things. And so what did we do? We gave our people funding in the Families Package\u2014a family package of $1.2 billion. The Budget targets 181,000 M\u0101ori children. What don\u2019t you understand about that? What does the Opposition not understand? Does the Opposition not understand that M\u0101ori are New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022096136e310ea49ac9c9adbb33b478cb1\u0022\u003ENuk Korako\u003C/span\u003E: So get rid of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri (TPK) then. Get rid of TPK. What do you need TPK for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229f18e93cb7a4f5e98fac3612ca94df0\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101ori are New Zealanders too, Nuk. M\u0101ori are New Zealanders too: 180,000 children are going to benefit from a universal package. Accommodation supplement: $265 million to M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau\u2014$265 million to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba4fe6769e204da18e5e5e6eda0e83d5\u0022\u003ENuk Korako\u003C/span\u003E: Not to M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau. It\u2019s not targeted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d69018064b8948c5824bed27bc82e0a3\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Do those wh\u0101nau not count, or do you just want to give funding in your measly targeted funding area? How stupid is the Opposition? That\u2019s the question today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec30fe3543e24494b244ccee12b17f57\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022930059fe890a4e57b5b5ce70073439d8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Before you say, when I call a point of order, the members sit down immediately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3f3ffc8d40a4137ad637e073dfeba37\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: The member opposite was bringing you into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a90e4eb161d345ca905b266c36bbbb30\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Now, I\u2019m going to rule on this. From the rest of this session up to 6 p.m., while I\u2019m in the chair, let\u2019s reduce that right down on both sides of the Chamber please. While I\u2019m on my feet, the Hon Willie Jackson needs to speak to this part of the debate about what is in the Estimates report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279e74a6d1f0041cab08e546c0829fbe3\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Have you read them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022114ddf1d6c554c5ea007a9e47cb704e6\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I\u2019ve absolutely read them. And I\u2019m talking about all the funding that\u2019s gone towards M\u0101ori in a universal sense. So what we\u2019ve done is have a two-pronged attack here through universal funding, where we\u2019ve got family supplements going to our people\u2014that the Opposition don\u2019t understand because they\u2019re far too slow\u2014and we\u2019ve, of course, got special funding that\u2019s going out in terms of Te Reo M\u0101ori. I know this is very hard for the Opposition to understand, but M\u0101ori people are New Zealanders too, and we deserve to be supported and funded and resourced in the different areas. There is huge funding going to M\u0101ori. There is more funding to M\u0101ori than ever in the history of the New Zealand Parliament. It\u2019s amazing, really.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn terms of the young people, rangatahi: $14 million\u2014$14 million. Read that book: $14 million going to young people in terms of finding work. And that\u2019s under He Poutama Rangatahi. That\u2019s a fund that the former Government refused to manage and refused to get out to the regions. We\u2019re putting that money out amongst the regions now through He Poutama Rangatahi, and our rangatahi $14 million fund going out through Te Puni K\u014Dkiri is going to hit our people in the city. We are so pleased with how things are going, M\u0101ori members. I know the Hon Chris Finlayson agrees with me. He knows that we\u2019re targeting M\u0101ori in a universal sense and in a targeted sense, and well done, M\u0101ori caucus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002285dd983958f1479ba967d954aace9501\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285dd983958f1479ba967d954aace9501\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m very happy to take a call on this issue. I\u2019d agree with the Hon member Willie Jackson if I could understand what he said half the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI want to begin by acknowledging Rino Tirikatene, the MP for Te Tai Tonga and excellent chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, as I said in the House the other week. I do feel sorry for him, because after the contribution from Mr Jackson, he must be sitting there saying, \u201CHow did he get to be a Minister and I\u2019m not one?\u201D But, look, that\u2019s the nature of politics and one has to live with these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t intend to speak at length about Treaty negotiations. I\u2019m a very bipartisan sort of a chap, and I think it\u2019s an area where there should be bipartisanship. I have to say, when I was the Minister, I had good support from the Labour Party and I think I\u2019d like to continue that support for this Minister, and in that regard, congratulate him for biting the bullet and being prepared to sign the Pare Hauraki deed, and also for moving to a stage of initialling the Marut\u016B\u0101hu deed. And, of course, standing behind those collective deeds are a lot of individual deeds as well. So congratulations on that and all the very best when dealing with Ng\u0101puhi. It\u2019s interesting for Mr Tirikatene to say there\u2019s movement there, and I look forward to the evidence of that movement in due course. All I can say to you is best of British, old boy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe second thing I want to talk about is the vote that involves Mr Kelvin Davis. Look, I\u2019m totally supportive of the portfolio of Crown/M\u0101ori Relations. I got the ball rolling in that area when I was Attorney-General, and one of the things I\u2019d be interested to hear from the Minister is: how is the register of Crown obligations going? I think that\u2019s a very important first step. There\u2019ll be a lot of\u2014from time to time\u2014issues that arise, dealing with the post-Treaty settlement relationship, but there\u2019s a broader Crown-M\u0101ori relationship that does deserve very careful consideration by Government in the years ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EA key aspect of that issue is the registry of interests where some good work was done, but it hadn\u2019t been completed when we left office. But I do think it\u2019s very important for the Crown\u2014not Government departments; for the Crown\u2014to know that there are ongoing obligations. When I left office, I think there were about 7,000 ongoing obligations\u2014quite a number of them the Crown had actually completed its responsibilities. So that\u2019s the second major issue, and I\u2019d be interested to hear from the Minister on that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThen we move on from praise and from nice-guy stuff into M\u0101ori development, because I endorse everything Mr Korako said. Mr Jackson tried to enlist me into his side of the argument\u2014I think, to the extent I understood it\u2014but, basically, it was totally wrong. But the issue in M\u0101ori development that really concerns me\u2014and Mr Jackson, I think, referred to it as that \u201Cdirty, stinking, rotten Te Ture Whenua M\u0101ori Bill\u201D or something like that. It was a sort of argument by epithet as opposed to argument by analysis. What we had with the work done on reform of Te Ture Whenua Maori Act was a once-in-a-generation opportunity to work out how M\u0101ori could develop their land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI have said in this House before that there have been reports done showing the potential for M\u0101ori land, not only for economic development but for papak\u0101inga housing and so on\u2014tremendous opportunities. People kept saying to me, \u201CWe can\u2019t develop this land because of the legal structures.\u201D\u2014even people like Shane Jones, who is very interested in seeing land developed for forestry, recognises the limitations on using land under Te Ture Whenua Maori Act for forestry development because of problems in getting consent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a huge issue. Such a huge amount of work was done and it\u2019s just been tossed to one side with the promises that there will be some work done on landlocked land, and there will be some work done on this and that, but the reality of the matter is nothing is going to happen, even though the Labour Party in Opposition put in their manifesto that reform of te ture whenua was a priority. And all that good work that was done to develop the M\u0101ori Land Service, which would serve to be a disputes resolver, to provide expert advice on registration of land, and also provide advice on how land could be developed\u2014that\u2019s all been washed away and that is a very serious error, and that is why this Minister has let the side down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022596145185db844588655bd3c97cbd4b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022596145185db844588655bd3c97cbd4b7\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te heamana o t\u0113nei wahanga. He h\u014Dnore t\u0113nei m\u014Dku te t\u016B ki te k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei kaupapa i te ahiahi nei. Ehara ahau i te mema o t\u0113nei K\u014Dmiti M\u0101ori engari e hiahia ana ahau ki te whakaputa \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 whakaaro, \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki te Tahua P\u016Btea m\u014D te P\u014Dti Whanaketanga M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u0100e, kua kite i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, i ng\u0101 amuamu o t\u0113r\u0101 taha o Te Whare ki waho hoki o t\u0113nei Whare, e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei Tahua P\u016Btea. E p\u0101tai mai ana kei hea te p\u016Btea m\u014D Ng\u0101i T\u0101tou te iwi M\u0101ori. M\u0101ku e k\u012B atu i roto i te whare, te hauora, te m\u0101tauranga an\u014D hoki. \u014C m\u0101tou wh\u0101nau, he wh\u0101nau noho kore whare, e noho ana i runga i te r\u0101rangi tatari m\u014D ng\u0101 whare k\u0101wanatanga, e noho m\u0101uiui ana, k\u0101hore an\u014D kia whiwhi i te m\u0101tauranga, e noho kore mahi ana, e noho hoki i roto i ng\u0101 whare herehere. Ko t\u0113nei Tahua P\u016Btea e tuku ana te moni ki w\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 kaupapa hei painga m\u014D t\u0101tou katoa, hei painga m\u014D te iwi M\u0101ori an\u014D hoki. Kaua e wareware ki t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero. Kei reira te moni. Kei roto hoki i te p\u014Dti whanaketanga M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EE hiahia ana ahau ki te k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 kaupapa e tautoko ana m\u0101tou e tohatoha ana i te p\u016Btea, \u0101, e hiahia ana au ki te tuku mihi ki te Minita, ar\u0101 ki a Nanaia ki te Minita a Willie an\u014D hoki, n\u0101 te mea e rua ng\u0101 kaupapa nui kei roto i t\u0113nei Tahua P\u016Btea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ETuatahi, ko te whare\u2014e tautoko ana i ng\u0101 papak\u0101inga M\u0101ori, e tautoko hoki ng\u0101 k\u0101inga ki roto i ng\u0101 hapori M\u0101ori p\u0113r\u0101 i t\u014Dku hau k\u0101inga i Moerewa. E tautoko ana te whakatikatika i ng\u0101 whare kei t\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 t\u0101one. E tino harikoa ana te ng\u0101kau ia taima ka hoki au ki te k\u0101inga, ka taraiwa atu au ki Moerewa, ka kite ahau i ng\u0101 whare e whakapaipai ake ana, e whakatikatika ake ana. N\u0101 te mea ko w\u0113r\u0101 ng\u0101 whare he m\u0101k\u016B, he makariri, he nui k\u0113 atu ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata e noho ana ki roto i \u0113r\u0101 whare, ko t\u0113nei e tautoko ana i w\u0113ra wh\u0101nau ki te whakatikatika, ki te whakamahana, \u0101, w\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EHe kaupapa tino pai t\u0113r\u0101. E hiahia ana ahau ki te tuku mihi ki a Te Iwi Kotahi T\u0101tou Trust, ki a Ng\u0101hau, a Debbie an\u014D hoki m\u014D t\u014D r\u0101tou kaha hei whakatikatika, hei whakapai ake ng\u0101 k\u0101inga i roto i Moerewa. Tino harikoa taku ng\u0101kau ki te rongo i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero e mea ana ng\u0101 Minita ko t\u0113nei ko te Moerewa model. T\u0113n\u0101 pea ka whakawh\u0101nui ake t\u0113nei kaupapa ki roto i \u0113tahi atu o ng\u0101 t\u0101one i roto i a Aotearoa nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EN\u0101, ko t\u0113tahi atu kaupapa kua kite ahau, kua tohatoha \u0113tahi moni ki te tautoko i t\u0113nei mahi, he mahi m\u014D te rangatahi. Kia ako i ng\u0101 p\u016Bkenga, kia whai i te m\u0101tauranga, kia whiwhi i te mahi. Kua haere mai a Willie, te Minita m\u014D te mahi, ki Kaikohe ki te whakarewa i t\u0113tahi kaupapa, ar\u0101 He Poutama Rangatahi. E m\u014Dhio ana t\u0101tou katoa te nuinga o ng\u0101 taitamariki e noho kore mahi ana i roto i Te Tai Tokerau. Ko t\u0113nei he ara anga mua m\u014D r\u0101tou a w\u0113r\u0101 ng\u0101 whakatupuranga. E tino harikoa ana te ng\u0101kau ki te t\u016B ki te taha o Willie\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E[Greetings to the Chair of this session. It is an honour for me to speak about this topic this afternoon. I am not a member of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, but I would like to express some of the thoughts, some of the information pertaining to the Budget for Vote M\u0101ori Development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EYes, I have seen the discussion, the complaints of the other side of the House, and outside this House, regarding this Budget, asking where the funding for us, the M\u0101ori people is. I would respond: in housing, in health, and also in education. Our families are families who are homeless, sitting on the waiting list for State housing, impacted by poor health, uneducated, unemployed, and also held in prison. This Budget delivers money to those initiatives for the good of all, for the good of M\u0101ori people, as well. Don\u2019t forget that point. The money is there. It is also in Vote M\u0101ori Development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI would like to speak about an initiative we are supporting which distributes funding, and I would like to congratulate the Minister for M\u0101ori Development, that is Nanaia, and also the Minister of Employment, Willie, because there are two significant initiatives within this Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EFirstly, housing\u2014supporting M\u0101ori communal housing developments and supporting houses within M\u0101ori communities, such as my home-place Moerewa. We are supporting the repair of houses in that town. My heart is happy each time I return home, drive into Moerewa, and see the houses being improved and repaired. Because it is those houses that are damp, cold, and many people are living in such houses, this supports those families to repair and heat those houses. That is a great initiative. I would like to acknowledge Te Iwi Kotahi T\u0101tou Trust, Ng\u0101hau, and also Debbie for their steadfastness in repairing and improving homes in Moerewa. My heart is happy to hear what the Ministers said about the Moerewa model. Perhaps this initiative will be expanded to some other New Zealand towns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ENow, another initiative I have seen is the distribution of money to support this work\u2014work for youth, to learn skills, to pursue education, and to gain employment. Willie, the Minister for this programme, has gone to Kaikohe to launch an initiative, He Poutama Rangatahi. We know that most youth are unemployed in Northland. This is a way forward for those generations. I am pleased to stand beside Willie\u2014]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219eb6824dfd647e484820c61e4a2bac8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: \u014Ctir\u0101 kia whakahua te katoa o t\u014Dna ingoa, Te Hon Willie Jackson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Please express his full name, the Hon Willie Jackson.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f99da4d5d14742399100f31b2847ca9c\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014oh, te honourable Te Minita Willie Jackson\u2014i roto i Kaikohe i te whakat\u016Btanga o t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 kaupapa. N\u014D reira e kaha tautoko ana ahau i t\u0113nei Tahua P\u016Btea n\u0101 te mea e kite ana ahau ng\u0101 painga o te mahi kua t\u012Bmata k\u0113 ki roto i Moerewa, i roto i Kaikohe an\u014D hoki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EAr\u0101 noa atu te moni kua hoatu ki ng\u0101 w\u0101tene M\u0101ori, m\u014D te whenua M\u0101ori, me te whakawhanake i ng\u0101 rohe, me Te Reo M\u0101ori an\u014D hoki. \u0100p\u014Dp\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 e whakanui ana t\u0101tou te noho motuhake t\u014D t\u0101tou reo M\u0101ori. N\u014D reira e tau ana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E[\u2014oh, the honourable Minister Willie Jackson\u2014in Kaikohe at the start of this initiative. Therefore, I strongly support this Budget, because I see the benefits of the work which has already begun in Moerewa and Kaikohe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EMoney has also been given to the M\u0101ori wardens, to M\u0101ori land, and to regional development, and also for the M\u0101ori language. Tomorrow we will commemorate the independence of our M\u0101ori language. So I conclude.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u0022c60a307b78af40869d6d9baf7a9c8fd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c60a307b78af40869d6d9baf7a9c8fd2\u0022\u003EJO HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana e Te Vaa Tuatua. I stand to take a contribution in this debate, and I want to bring out the area in the M\u0101ori development portfolio around\u2014you can almost guess it\u2014Wh\u0101nau Ora because I have been disappointed on so many levels around the way that this portfolio is going. I\u2019m disappointed in the lack of funding that came from this Budget. I feel the aroha for those that work in the Wh\u0101nau Ora sector. I feel aroha for them because the Labour Party manifesto had in it a promise of $20 million for Wh\u0101nau Ora over a four-year period, and that was washed away, and all of the hopes there and the anticipation that came from the Wh\u0101nau Ora providers around that particular piece of p\u016Btea was washed away and dashed, and their hopes were dashed. I felt that the $5 million to the agency Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2014I believe it\u2019s been ill-allocated. I don\u2019t know why they get to have an increase in funding and the Wh\u0101nau Ora commissioning agencies and the providers get absolutely nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003ENow, I know that when I questioned the Minister in the select committee, he talked about the Wh\u0101nau Ora review and that a lot of the decisions around Wh\u0101nau Ora funding would hinge on this review. But in my tours around speaking with Wh\u0101nau Ora providers, looking at the amount of money that has gone into this review\u2014just under a million dollars for review panel members to hear the stories that many of us have already heard around how Wh\u0101nau Ora is a successful project and how it is helping so many wh\u0101nau\u2014I think that\u2019s a waste of money, to be honest. I think that very little will come from this review, and I think that a lot of the people that are being interviewed\u2014providers, and so forth\u2014there are a number of them that have been missed out of the opportunity. Yes, there\u2019s a submission process; I get that. But we are M\u0101ori and we like kanohi ki te kanohi [face to face], just like we\u2019ve always done throughout our being as M\u0101ori, and yet there are a number of providers that have talked to me about their dissatisfaction that they have not had that opportunity for kanohi ki te kanohi with the Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EAlso, there is disappointment from some of those providers that when the Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora was invited to present at some of their respective hui, he declined. And, really, at the end of the day, if you\u2019re trying to sell something, you need to be able to connect with those\u2014all of those people; not just the ones that show up to the conferences but all the others that cannot make the journey to conferences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EAnd so when there is an opportunity to be able to speak to the people, speak to the wh\u0101nau, then it disappoints me that the Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora cannot make the time for these people. It really sends me the signal that this Government doesn\u2019t really care about the little people\u2014the people at the grass roots\u2014and that really concerns me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EThere is nervousness out there from one of the commissioning agencies to its providers, saying that, you know, this could be the end to the providerships as they know it through this particular process. I was quite alarmed when I was told this, and I thought, well, this is a very strong message, and I wanted to send that message to the members of the Labour-led Government to let them know that there are wh\u0101nau, there are providers, and there are hap\u016B and iwi out there that are not impressed with your performance or your support of wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori, of M\u0101ori tamariki, rangatahi and of the work that they continue to do with those wh\u0101nau that actually face the various challenges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EBefore I finish my contribution, I too want to just give my thanks to the chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. I think you\u2019re doing a good job, Rino, and thank you very much. You have a very good way about you, looking after us. And thanks also, to the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, the Hon Andrew Little, kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u002295a6c72382af4173a6e02c0bc98d2606\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295a6c72382af4173a6e02c0bc98d2606\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, kia orana. Tuatahi e t\u0101piri atu \u0101ku whakaaro ki \u0113r\u0101 i waihotia te mema a Willow-Jean Prime, ar\u0101 ko te hanga o t\u0113nei Whare he w\u0101hanga m\u014D te iti me te rahi, ng\u0101 pouaru, ng\u0101 pani, me ng\u0101 rawakore. Koinei te t\u0101h\u016Bh\u016B o te whare e akiaki nei, e tiaki nei e m\u0101tou t\u0113nei k\u0101wanatanga, ki ng\u0101 kaupapa matua kei mua i te aroaro o te hunga p\u014Dhara, n\u014D reira tautoko \u014Dna k\u014Drero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[Greetings. Firstly, I would like to add my thoughts to those expressed by the member Willow-Jean Prime, namely the structure of this House which includes parts for all, the widows, the orphans, and the poor. This is the theme that we of this Government are exhorting and looking after, the main issues facing the poor, therefore I support her speech.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI just wanted to respond to some of the things that have been raised in the committee in relation to the M\u0101ori development portfolio, and we do have a good story to tell. But it\u2019s more than that: we want to see action on the ground, and we have a plan, because we know that for far too long, too many people, without opportunity, have not been benefiting under the previous administration. The points that were made by the chairperson of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee that much has been gained across the whole Budget for M\u0101ori, and, in particular, our having a focus in the M\u0101ori development space to grow further opportunity is exactly the plan that M\u0101ori have been calling for. In fact, they voted with their feet because they knew that this plan would work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe member Willow-Jean Prime actually pointed to all the different parts of the new funding that would channel support to where we think it could make a critical difference, in line with the rest of what the Government is doing. Take papak\u0101inga housing\u2014we know that it\u2019s not just about building houses; it\u2019s about wh\u0101nau enterprise and it\u2019s about developing land opportunities and sustainable housing opportunities. We will see more of that under this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAlso in the area of rangatahi, we have the Minister of Employment, who has a plan which actually builds on the proposition that our young people want to work, they deserve work, and they deserve sustainable employment. That must be done in partnership not only with business, not only with M\u0101ori collectives and M\u0101ori enterprise, but also with local and central government. We need a joined-up solution for our rangatahi because for far too long, far too many have been dropping off the radar with nowhere to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAlso, I want to pick up on the point raised by the previous Minister for Treaty Settlements around Te Ture Whenua. See, this is the difficult thing: the previous administration was prepared to throw money at a M\u0101ori Land Service without knowing whether or not they could get the legislation over the line to actually support that direction of travel. People voted with their feet in the M\u0101ori electorates because they knew that that approach was not actually going to deliver real gains for M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau, M\u0101ori trusts, and M\u0101ori collectives, who really wanted the solutions to come back to them in real ways. That was politics gone wrong, and, certainly, National paid for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThere was another point that was raised in relation to the Budget, and this was something I spoke on at length at the select committee. Actually, if you look at the total budget and the difference, in the last year of the previous administration, the total budget was around about $328 million. For the 2018 Budget, the total vote was $342 million. Now, that\u2019s an increase, and I explained to the select committee that the difference in the numbers was that we had around about $37 million that was put aside in the projects that I\u2019ve identified in the contingency funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ESo the next question falling off that is: why was it contingency? In the papak\u0101inga space, we knew that in order to develop the types of projects that had multiple benefits, rather than just building a house\u2014multiple benefits like wh\u0101nau enterprise, community development\u2014ensuring that that dollar was a part of a circular economy to deliver far greater gains, we could continue to develop the model that we knew worked in this approach. It\u2019s much the same in terms of the rangatahi space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAlso, I wanted to just, lastly, come to the point about Wh\u0101nau Ora. Now, why would the Minister throw more money at Wh\u0101nau Ora before the review outcome had been found? He wouldn\u2019t. The point of the matter there is that we had campaigned on the approach to reviewing Wh\u0101nau Ora to see what worked, to ensure that a commissioning approach across three different agencies, done three different ways, could identify where the real opportunity of doing things differently might be. Now, I don\u2019t know what the outcome of that review will deliver; neither does the Minister. But it would be prudent of him to ensure that the review took its natural course before he made a final determination about where to next, because that is the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re committed to outcomes for M\u0101ori. We\u2019re committed to gains that will see real opportunities, real jobs, sustainable incomes, and breaking the cycle of inequality and poverty that\u2019s been around far too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u00225257ad4650de4c1696d3da67e17fdee2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225257ad4650de4c1696d3da67e17fdee2\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E E Te Tiamana, kia orana. I rise to take this last call for the Opposition and, in doing so, acknowledge the Minister for M\u0101ori Development, the Hon Nanaia Mahuta. I listened to your words keenly and intently, and the Minister has addressed the committee talking about growth and gain for M\u0101ori development. Well, the purpose of the Estimates debate is to hold the Minister accountable for the decisions around allocation of funding to areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EWhen I go through the Estimates for M\u0101ori development, these are the key words that strike one as one reads them from page 230 of the booklet: \u201Cdecrease\u201D, \u201Cno new policy initiatives\u201D, \u201Creduce\u201D, \u201Cmoved to other Government priorities\u201D, \u201Cfunding is spread across the Budget\u201D, \u201Cintegrating\u201D\u2014not only for M\u0101ori, but \u201Cintegrating\u201D\u2014\u201Ca reduction\u201D, \u201Ctagged\u201D, \u201Cnot included\u201D, \u201Cdisestablished\u201D. These are the key words that strike one when reading through Vote M\u0101ori Development, and this is the emphasis of my k\u014Drero to the committee this afternoon. It\u2019s about scrutinising the Government\u2019s performance and delivery\u2014or rather, more to the point, its underperformance and under-delivery; its undervaluing of M\u0101ori development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EIn my service in the House as a member of the Opposition on these benches, I\u2019ve repeatedly heard the coalition Government decrying, bemoaning, and lamenting its long years in Opposition, which obviously weren\u2019t long enough, because, regrettably, in this allocation of funding for Vote M\u0101ori Development, it has decreased, reduced, lessened priority, diminished, and mainstreamed funding, doing nothing more than assimilating the interests of M\u0101ori and suppressing, not growing, M\u0101ori development\u2014nothing more and a whole lot less. In short, this Government has short-changed M\u0101ori in Vote M\u0101ori Development. Let\u2019s look at the rhetoric again, as I have outlined from pages 230 onwards\u2014this Government has short-changed Vote M\u0101ori Development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo let me step you through some of the rhetoric, some of the promises. Wh\u0101nau Ora was what the Labour Party campaigned on during the election campaign\u2014promises of $20 million to grow that. There was no talk about a review. We now have 123-plus reviews; Wh\u0101nau Ora is one of them that has suffered. It\u2019s this particular approach of under-delivery and under-deliverables\u2014funding all slipstreamed into mainstream funding; assimilated policies and assimilated ideas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s look at the overview in Vote M\u0101ori Development. As I said, those key words\u2014it\u2019s about less, which is not about more for M\u0101ori development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EAssimilation and immersion is what this is all about. Vote M\u0101ori Development is all negatively geared and deconstructed. This is indicative of the regard for the largest representation M\u0101ori MPs have ever had in a Government. Regrettably, my colleagues across the Chamber\u2014all 13 of you\u2014have been focused on targeting, assimilation, and immersion into the mainstream. It\u2019s disappointing and ashamedly the voice of the largest representation of M\u0101ori ever in Government. The silence is deafening, when we need to hear you speak up, when we need to hear the members across the Chamber speak up the strongest and the most at the times most important for M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThe Speech from the Throne referenced, \u201CThis government is proud to have the most M\u0101ori and Pacific Island cabinet ministers of any New Zealand government; with eight M\u0101ori and four Pacific Island ministers.\u201D I put it to my colleagues across the Chamber that you are needed to speak up in the M\u0101ori interests, in the M\u0101ori voice, not immerse and assimilate, as is evident in this Budget round for Vote M\u0101ori Development. As the spokesperson for M\u0101ori tourism, I\u2019ve looked through the Estimates here and, again, I see that there has been the immersion and assimilation of M\u0101ori funding from the Minister of Tourism over to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development. I see that the funding\u2014there\u2019s been no increase; again, immersed and assimilated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EHearing from the representatives from M\u0101ori broadcasting, from M\u0101ori Television, their concern and view is that there\u2019s been no increase. In the last four years\u2014[Bell rung]\u2014particularly, for our M\u0101ori public broadcasters\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022992ed7cac57644c29581ac95277b5e25\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Is the member seeking a further call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226073928b9d284511bfc7dc704a378687\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO\u003C/span\u003E: May I please, Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d7b6f0f71a147a792a2edd24dcdf888\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Harete Hipango.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240cb8df1a1874eafad9ef8adf7cf6c25\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EIn briefly summing up, the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee heard from the public broadcasters, in relation to the funding that is here, that there\u2019s been no increase, and questioned why it is that M\u0101ori are treated differently from our mainstream broadcaster. There\u2019s nothing clear about the currency in recognising the importance of M\u0101ori broadcasting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo, in conclusion, it\u2019s highlighted very clearly that the coalition Government regrettably, with our M\u0101ori representation, has not lifted the voice of the M\u0101ori interest. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221e9d9f9d4f634d6abdb38ba5174a79c4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote M\u0101ori Development and Vote Treaty Negotiations be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVotes agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022abcc41c474184c619d8e15ca5d8e6d97\u0022\u003EPrimary Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e59e7ea3fbad48a5aaddda37b421a720\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e59e7ea3fbad48a5aaddda37b421a720\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to the votes in the primary sector, B.5, Volume 9. The question is that Vote Agriculture, Biosecurity, Fisheries and Food Safety, Vote Forestry, and Vote Lands stand part of the schedules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00226455cc04511e42e5a738df466c3a248f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226455cc04511e42e5a738df466c3a248f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (Chairperson of the Primary Production Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s great to be able to take a call on Vote Agriculture, Biosecurity, Fisheries and Food Safety, because it is primary industry that leads the New Zealand economy. I\u2019d just like to acknowledge the members of the Primary Production Committee that were on there from other parties as well. It\u2019s a very bipartisan committee, actually, that works together on many issues because there are many people that have an interest in agriculture on that committee and it is part of the fabric of the New Zealand identity and community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b7ccf3d9c9f44eea4abd4b3c1a7b2b0\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: Where did this diplomatic David Bennett come from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc67a717042643949467826a8e36fbae\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It is, it\u2019s very good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EOf course, the main issue that was a focus was the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak that has been something that has been, through New Zealand over the last six to nine months, a very important part of the Ministry for Primary Industries\u2019 (MPI\u2019s) work. I\u2019d just like to, first of all, acknowledge the good people from MPI that have given so much of their time and effort to try and control and eradicate that cattle disease. I\u2019d just like to also acknowledge the Minister that\u2019s here, Damien O\u2019Connor. I think the Minister made the right call earlier this year. That was a good call that was welcomed by the farming sector, and the question will now be whether there is the ability for the Government to carry that through and to make sure that that wasn\u2019t just a false call that was made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f0865ef1f7d4f159764b7a9a7e6aaf5\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. It\u2019s my understanding that the chair of the select committee has a very specific role in presenting the report of the select committee, not to wonder aloud about personal opinions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6775544658d483d993992f38b2c7265\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Are you kidding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b7a2fd453ae40968b53b317d7822003\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267b3ac36f93042cb82f8ec127004f99f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s nothing to rule on there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bc7c534f70449809a2ef08d0336921d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The report focused heavily on Mycoplasma bovis, and one of the big issues there is how that actually works out, because what we\u2019ve seen from the Government is an estimation of their expenditure going forward. That is in a number of years, and it will depend on whether that actually happens in each particular year. I was raising the point, for that member, that there is the difficulty that if the Government moves away from the commitment it\u2019s already made, there would be ill feeling within the rural community as to whether that actually has been a commitment that was followed through in earnest in the first sense. That\u2019s an $886 million commitment over 10 years, which was a huge part of the investment by this Government in biosecurity, and to take that away would be a major issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIt is not something that\u2019s set in stone, because there are a lot of issues around the eradication\u2014namely, whether any diseases were found outside of the initial area of contact, and requirements around what MPI actually can do in managing the outbreak. So it is not something that we necessarily know will be carried through, and it is something where there needs to be that security given to farmers, should there be any breach outside the conditions that were laid out for the Government\u2019s investment in dealing with the disease. If those conditions are not met, then farmers would also need to see some security from the Government, especially when Estimates are done, because you\u2019ve just had the movement of cattle\u20141 June has been a very important part of the agricultural sector\u2014and so there would be some issues around the future movement of cattle, as well, going through the year from calf clubs to cattle sales and on to next year\u2019s farm movement on 1 June.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s also some talk around the National Animal Identification and Tracing system, the NAIT system. I understand that the Minister\u2019s got some plans in that area as well, and we\u2019d welcome a call from the Minister to identify where he thinks that should transition in the future, because that\u2019s part of actually being able to provide that safety and security to the primary sector, especially in regard to something like the M. bovis issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EAnother issue that was raised was around the brown marmorated stink bug. This is another issue where there is a real risk to the New Zealand horticulture sector. We know that there have been some bugs found in New Zealand. The numbers are significant, with 52 of them found alive, and that presents a real risk to our primary sector as well. So it would be good to hear what the Minister is intending to do in the near future to deal with that issue as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESome other issues that were raised included protecting kauri trees, and around fisheries and OVERSEER, but the main issue was M. bovis. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae09a702301e4517998beca36cecea49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae09a702301e4517998beca36cecea49\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. It is a great pleasure to take a call on this, the discussion on the agriculture appropriations. Of course, as I do not hold the position of chair of this committee, I have a much broader approach to this speech. I can talk much more broadly around agriculture appropriations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI want to begin by acknowledging the chair of the Primary Production Committee, David Bennett. He is not as bad as we expected. Where we find that this committee stands out amongst the rest is its willingness to work together. I think the point there is that it demonstrates how important the primary sector is to this country. I, along with many other of my colleagues on this side of the Chamber, and indeed over there on that side of the Chamber, live in an area where agriculture in particular\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f27a95903e948fc928fd8b43d8366d1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m afraid I have to interrupt the member. The time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f04a30e873c4cb99202f04c0cdea4e3\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Kia orana e Maine Vaa Tuatua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022782c7364b39348b4b54552116d8e891d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280f46e43616143109122b24b1deed6a3\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Thank you, Madam Deputy Chair. It\u2019s been a marvellous break actually. I enjoyed my dinner; I hope you did as well. I had some lovely New Zealand lamb for my tea, and how appropriate, given the topic of conversation today. It did make me think about the challenges that are facing the sector. My friend next to me, the next member for Clutha-Southland\u2014we take a different view on one particular matter. [Interruption] That, of course, is the\u2014I\u2019ve never known so many National MPs to demonstrate support for a New Zealand First candidate as we\u2019ve just demonstrated there: the screams of joy at the concept of Mark Patterson being elected in Clutha-Southland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ELook, my friend and I share a passion for primary industries but there is one thing that we have disagreed on recently, and that, of course, is the issue of synthetic protein. Mark Patterson here was very apt in registering concern around the presence of that synthetic protein and the challenge that it presents to our industry. But I do take a different approach, in the sense that it is also an opportunity. It\u2019s an opportunity for ourselves as a country and the primary sector to actually tell our story, to tell the story as to why our meat is the better option, to target those consumers overseas that are more discerning, that do want to see environmentally sustainable and healthy products, and, of course, New Zealand - produced beef and lamb is that particular product. But it\u2019s up to us as a country, and it is up to the sector to market that product and tell that story so that people know why they should\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d024e069e6e84c46a46f6021d4d3c99d\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: And the national carrier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202635a0f9be848c0be9113d247606d12\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I\u2019m getting heckled by my own side here\u2014buy our stuff, our products. The fact is that New Zealand needs to work together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022598905437c814f97aeab7c76d133e330\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Has this got anything to do with the Estimates at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c15b158d41a2446d96695a29fd457038\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: It does, actually. It does. Here we go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257229b5df10b4b59a0fef78c7aff95df\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: It would be nice to sort of link it to the Estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddd73c50353d4496b696aceb28c1df53\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister has indicated a visionary approach in establishing the Primary Sector Council. Now, the Primary Sector Council is made up of 18 members, and within that sector they are tasked with producing a sector-wide vision. There have been appropriations allocated to that sector. It is entirely appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db6d986b75b64f61ba27c8f109d6535a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: A working group. Another working group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f5cbedb49874cea965a32759fa020e8\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the new member for Northcote, welcome. But if you\u2019re going to heckle, make it good. You\u2019re not sitting next to a very good example, but the member next to you Tim van de Molen knows how to heckle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI live in Wairarapa. Now, for the benefit of Alastair Scott, Wairarapa is the area on the east coast just north of Wellington. The point there is this is an area that is dependent on the success of the primary sector, not just for those who work directly within it but for the communities that surround it as well. The future for that sector is one where the Government works alongside industry. The Primary Sector Council, led by the Minister here in the chair, is the body that will set the vision for the future of the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWe can no longer leave things purely to the market. We all know the theory of trickle-down, but we\u2019ve also seen the effect the Labour coalition Government\u2014[Bell rung]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac13a71dae4646b1a56fcb52b0aacec8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac13a71dae4646b1a56fcb52b0aacec8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: No. That\u2019s it. That\u2019s it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022a614c4d323864b6c9035df28569a6b9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a614c4d323864b6c9035df28569a6b9a\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s great to be able to take a call on the Estimates for 2018/19. I want to cover some of the topical issues and look back since the coalition Government has formed at some of the decisions that the Minister has made that, indeed, reflect either positively or negatively on the primary sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EOf course, we remember back to the campaign when Labour went out and said that they wanted to create all of these stand-alone entities. Remember it? There was food safety and biosecurity and fisheries and forestry. Well, when the Minister got his feet under the chair in the first week, he received some very chilling advice from the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) which said, basically, you can\u2019t smash apart MPI because of the competent authority, which means you would lose the status in international markets, particularly for biosecurity and for food safety. So he had his first big loss early on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThen he had to go through a face-saving exercise of, effectively, rebranding MPI, which was really costly, about $17 million from the primary growth fund. That\u2019s what it will cost to rebrand, to do the signage, and put stickers on doors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c79be71ef86d4de088d12734f7f9fcb4\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201992d566c834b8d8afaef36ce2ba061\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: About $17 million, raided from the research and development Primary Growth Partnership (PGP) fund that\u2019s been really successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESo that was the first cross that the Minister has against his name, when he set up these four branded units within MPI. I could never see the need for setting up four separate entities for MPI because, indeed, people work across the different entities and, indeed, now the different units.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat was also really topical when we look back was a very dry summer, remember it? We had six regions declared in drought. And then the Crown Irrigation Investments officials were writing to the Minister saying \u201CWe need to come and see you.\u201D Because they had read the Speech from the Throne, and they had seen the confidence and supply agreements with New Zealand First and the Greens\u2014as a result of that, the Minister was confused. Remember that I was asking him questions in the House here\u2014whether he\u2019d met them, whether they\u2019d asked or not\u2014and he had to come down and correct his answers on two occasions. Indeed, he hadn\u2019t bothered to pick up the phone, or his officials hadn\u2019t, and welcome these Crown Irrigation officials into his office. As it turned out, pretty much all of that money has been raided from Crown Irrigation and gone into other things\u2014other things outside the primary sector, I must say too. Isn\u2019t it ironic that we had such areas, six regions in drought, and the Government decided to ditch water storage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abb915cbc4b94f07a7be6774fb612303\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212691a895c66486b8f5cf61e9dd83c02\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. And then, wait for it\u2014wait for it. The Minister turned up to open an irrigation scheme the day after he\u2019d canned the fund and he said \u201CWe\u2019re not against water storage; in fact, we love it.\u201D But wait for it, read the fine print\u2014\u201CWe\u2019re just not going to help fund it.\u201D And we know that water storage is hugely important for food security. In fact, when we think about climate change, it\u2019s about climate mitigation as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we\u2019re waiting for the Primary Growth Partnership review. The Minister, any time soon, will be receiving a report on the review of PGP. He spent most of his time in Opposition going around and bagging it, bagging this fund; quotes like \u201COh, this is just confetti. They\u2019re spraying around money like confetti. It\u2019s a slush fund for National\u2019s mates.\u201D Well, I reckon what\u2019s going to happen is the PGP report is actually going to be very positive. And we got a little sense of this last night when the Minister spoke at the red meat sector dinner in Napier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u2019s just sort of smiling over there. He doesn\u2019t know quite where to look, because he\u2019s a bit of a fan of PGP, and he was there in the audience last night. He heard the Minister say, \u201CBy the way, to all you processors and farmers in the room, I\u2019m going to have to swallow a small mouse.\u201D It\u2019s not a big dirty old smelly dead rat, even though it\u2019s a big part of the engine room of the primary sector. He stands up and says, \u201CAh, yeah, well, I\u2019m going to have to swallow this little mouse.\u201D What he was meaning was he\u2019s received the report and it\u2019s pretty good on Primary Growth Partnership, he\u2019s been and talked to some key players in the Red Meat Profit Partnership\u2014remember that these are all the key players in the engine room of the primary sector who come together to unite, to work on a strategy and innovation, and all of those really important things, reaching right into markets and adding value. Then he said, \u201CYeah, well, I\u2019ve had a second thought. Park up all the bagging I\u2019ve done for the last six years or seven years about PGP. Now I\u2019m probably going to have to support it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat I will commend the Minister on is M. bovis and reaching a decision with industry on that, and thank goodness for the Prime Minister coming in and supporting that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI still feel for those farmers that are going through and having their herds culled; it\u2019s a terrible time for them. The focus needs to be working constructively, as I believe the Government is, with rural support trusts, who are providing that mental wellness support, and the key people in each community, ensuring that farming families that are having their herds culled know who to turn to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe other one that\u2019s fascinating in the biosecurity space is this brown marmorated stink bug. That is going to be really big when it turns up in New Zealand\u2014but, wait, it\u2019s already turned up. It\u2019s already here. Remember, we had all those cars coming in from Japan, and the Minister for Biosecurity was out there saying, \u201CI\u2019m turning the boats around. I\u2019m doing the right thing.\u201D Well, the reality is that over that period of time, or since they\u2019ve been in Government\u2014the coalition has formed\u2014there\u2019s been 324 stink bugs that have arrived in New Zealand; 52 of those were alive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ll tell you what\u2019s going to happen. These stink bugs are already travelling all over New Zealand in these Japanese-imported vehicles. The stink bug season is coming in 30 days\u2019 time. On 1 September is when the stink bug is most prolific. It takes daylight and sunshine and a warming temperature for these bugs to come out. The reason I raise this: when MPI finds one out there\u2014and they\u2019ve already found them post-border, several of them, and, remember, about 12 of them went on a road trip. They were inspected in Auckland; they turned up in Christchurch alive. So they\u2019re already here, they\u2019re waiting. When they have to stand up a response, there\u2019s no lure, they\u2019re training a dog; they were talking to the Agcarm conference in confidence last week, making sure there\u2019s chemical to stand up. There isn\u2019t enough chemical in New Zealand currently. So this is going to be a massive thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EHort produced a report\u2014that rhymes, doesn\u2019t it?\u2014that said when stink bugs get going in New Zealand, it\u2019ll cost the horticulture industry about $3 billion, and the thing about these terrible stink bugs is that they don\u2019t just impact on horticulture crops; they get into households, and they\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223e2eaf88f414740ac7b725ec3ce42bf\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Stink.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b8b988df86242bc82a99bb66287781f\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, they literally stink. One person described it to me like your pair of tramping socks that you\u2019ve had on on a week\u2019s expedition that you haven\u2019t taken off\u2014that\u2019s what they stink like. They get in the nooks and crevices of your house and then they breed and populate, and these things are terrible. So we\u2019ll be interested in the Minister\u2019s comments on what he\u2019s going to do in the next couple of months when they turn up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe other one that\u2019s really topical is this Primary Sector Council. Now, I\u2019ve been trying to get the minutes from MPI and the Minister, and we\u2019re getting sort of a bit of a rush-around as to who\u2019s holding the minutes. You would think that the Government, who wants to be open and transparent\u2014they would just release the minutes the day after the council has met, but we\u2019re having to do an Official Information Act request and get the minutes and find out what was discussed. Well, we heard from the chairman yesterday at the Red Meat Sector Conference, Lain Jager, who I have a lot of respect for\u2014I\u2019m just not quite sure what the sector is really going to achieve. I think in the first couple of meetings they were getting to know one another and talking about the primary sector. The second meeting, I think, was putting some of these Post-it notes on a chart and working out what the primary sector means and exports and things. They\u2019ve got some good people in there, but I\u2019m just not sure that they\u2019re going to achieve anything. It\u2019s all about advising the Minister. Well, what\u2019s their advice going to be on red meat sector reform? I don\u2019t hear anyone in the red meat sector saying they need to be reformed, but the Minister was speaking to a couple of hundred people last night at the dinner saying, \u201COh, I\u2019m all set to reform you.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThen we move into the Dairy Industry Restructuring Act. That\u2019s going to be really topical soon, in a couple of months, because a report\u2019s going to come out, and then, of course, there\u2019ll be a bill. We\u2019ll wait and see. I express my gratitude to John Wilson, the outgoing chair of Fonterra, who I have a huge amount of respect for and who\u2019s standing down because of health reasons. I wish John Monaghan, the incoming chair, extremely well\u2014the Minister did that, as well. But the reality is that Damien O\u2019Connor doesn\u2019t like Fonterra. He likes co-ops but he doesn\u2019t like Fonterra. So he and his mates over there\u2014Mark Patterson\u2019s mates\u2014want to deal to Fonterra. They want to smash the place apart. I heard the Minister talking at a Federated Farmers thing about a month ago where he said, \u201COh, yeah, I\u2019ll be probably meddling in their constitution as well.\u201D So the gloves are going to come off. It\u2019s going to be fascinating to watch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAnyway, I think it\u2019s been a mixed eight or nine months from this Government, focusing in on the primary sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002289cbc6b088a748d888c4582d19cb6d2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289cbc6b088a748d888c4582d19cb6d2e\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m happy to follow that bit of fiction with a few facts. I acknowledge the Hon Nathan Guy as the former Minister, and I acknowledge the challenges that I\u2019ve had coming into this role, taking over from him and his Government. It\u2019s not been easy, and he points to a few things that we have done. We certainly have made some changes at the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI), and set up four business units. The previous Government\u2019s approach to this area was that we put everything together and big is better and it\u2019s more efficient, but the multiple responsibilities that are within MPI as an organisation were so vast and so important that we thought, actually, no, it\u2019s better for biosecurity, food safety, fisheries, and forestry\u2014really important areas for the future of New Zealand; farmers, foresters, fishers, and the New Zealand economy\u2014to have officials with a passion, with knowledge, in a business unit, not distracted by other responsibilities in MPI. We made those changes, and I\u2019m proud of them and happy that we\u2019ve made the kind of progress in terms of focus that we were expecting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EYes, some of the money from the Primary Growth Partnership (PGP) was used for this restructure, but, in fact, when I went back and looked at the books, the previous National Government had been promising an amount of money for PGP but taking an amount of money for other uses across the primary sector. So the amount of money spoken of and promised was never ever delivered across the PGP, and the former Minister criticises me for daring to challenge the PGP and what it attempted to do. I said that for the most part it was business-as-usual operations, but in spending $700 million, you can\u2019t help but have some positive outcomes\u2014you can\u2019t. I mean, no matter how inappropriately or irresponsibly the previous Government spent that $700 million, you have to have some. So I did admit last night that having met, effectively, a discussion group of farmers in Napier and talking through some of the issues of M. bovis, it was good to see them come together and discuss these issues, and they were funded through a Primary Growth Partnership fund. They should have been coming together like this for years, if they\u2019d seen the wisdom in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EBut I acknowledged, and I did swallow a small mouse to say that the Red Meat Profit Partnership, if it brings together farmers across the drystock sector, is indeed creating some benefit. Whether it\u2019s value for money is not up to me; I think the review will be testing that. And of course there will be some benefit from the PGP, but the question for any responsible Government is, is that the best spend of $700 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f05f32b6f4334dcb8ed7e0b96c913b5f\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: What does the report say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1712dcfcbd34b81bf95b91dc811258b\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: So the member will wait for the report. I hope he holds his breath. It won\u2019t be immediate in coming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to say, in moving through a couple of the other issues, we do believe that we need water for the future of New Zealand agriculture\u2014indeed, for all communities. But, again, in the largesse and promise of support for their constituents, the National Government didn\u2019t sit down and look at the outcomes from its funding of large-scale irrigation schemes. In some areas, there have been environmental impacts that haven\u2019t always been positive, but the one thing that was being undermined was the social licence to continue with that programme and the expansion of dairy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ESo we have wound that back, taken that money and, yes, put it into other, better uses across the primary sector, but what we\u2019ve also done is said that we will work through smaller projects that are focused on catchments, that will deliver clearly identifiable benefits but within a social licence to operate and environmental limits that are sound. That\u2019s our approach to immigration, not just simply throwing money at big schemes, some of which haven\u2019t actually got the uptake and utilisation of the water that they\u2019d been promised. We\u2019re saying we\u2019ll be really careful and we will intervene when necessary, not sit back and rely on the market to deliver the outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I say, on M. bovis\u2014and it has been raised, in fact, by all speakers\u2014that it is one of our biggest challenges. I acknowledge that. It was first identified in July, this time 12 months ago. We weren\u2019t in Government at the time. I made some comments at the time, and I still stand by those comments. But none the less, when we came into Government we had to firstly assess the situation and then apply our best focus and the money necessary, utilising the best advice that we could. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe had an international technical advisory group of experts, who came back and said\u2014after two reports, in fact\u2014that we could eradicate this. It wasn\u2019t unanimous. But, as we have been with industry, we sat down in an open way and laid on the table all the evidence\u2014the reports from the experts\u2014and said, \u201CWell, we believe we\u2019d like to give this a shot. Do you agree?\u201D They went away, they considered it, and they came back, and we unanimously agreed that we should attempt to eradicate M. bovis, because I think it would be fair to say that a number of the sectors across the primary areas underestimated the potential impact of this, and, indeed, we\u2019re just seeing this flow through now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge the support of my colleagues through Cabinet and caucus. The $886 million that we have committed to this programme\u201432 percent of which will come from the industry; I acknowledge that\u2014is a huge commitment to, I guess, underpin the farming sector but, ultimately, reduce over time the potential costs of managing a farming system with M. bovis. So thank you to colleagues, thanks to the taxpayers\u2014they are contributing to this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAs long as the farmers and the people in the sector appreciate that and do what is necessary from their side of the equation, such as better traceability, better tracking of animal movements and notification of those movements, adhering to the regulations around tagging\u2014these are all things that haven\u2019t been implemented properly. Indeed, I could say that the previous Government\u2019s softly softly approach in this area has contributed to the spread of the disease. But that\u2019s spilt milk\u2014pardon the pun\u2014and we\u2019re now trying to move ahead and make the changes necessary to ensure that farmers do adhere to their part of the equation, because the taxpayers are doing their bit and they\u2019re funding this. So it\u2019s really important to remind them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I say that the brown marmorated stink bug is almost as devastating to New Zealand as M. bovis. Can I say that the systems that we had in place were those put there by the previous National Government, and the transitional facilities approach\u2014which Nathan Guy, the previous speaker, referred to\u2014that allowed a machine to be brought off a boat and on to a truck in Auckland and taken back down to Christchurch to be parked up and then, finally, checked is being changed by us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThat was a totally inappropriate system that allowed those brown marmorated stink bugs\u2014they were hidden away\u2014to get to Christchurch. We can\u2019t have that any more. We turned around ships. We will turn them around again. We\u2019ve gone offshore and told the people who are bringing, or are planning to bring, imported equipment into this country, \u201CDo the spraying and do the checking properly, or they\u2019ll be turned around and they\u2019ll be sent away.\u201D, because we\u2019re not going to muck around and consider the possible impacts on equipment importers or on used-car importers. In our view, biosecurity is so important that their interests are secondary to protecting our country from these bugs. So the softly softly approach implemented by the previous Government is no longer in place under this Government, and I\u2019m very happy to say that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIf I could just very briefly mention the Dairy Industry Restructuring Act review. The previous speaker said that I don\u2019t like Fonterra. I was the chair of the select committee that passed through the legislation that set Fonterra up. I have a passion for it. I know it wasn\u2019t perfect. But it\u2019s the biggest and best company we have in this country, not the best performing, and it needs to be the best performing because otherwise farmers are going to leave it and undermine the cooperative, with the possible failure of what has been our biggest company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI want them to succeed, but criticising them and encouraging them to do better is something that we will do as a Government. That\u2019s not the softly softly, patsy approach that the National Government took to them\u2014it refused to encourage them to do better and to move along. What we\u2019ve seen now is that, actually, foreign companies and other participants in the dairy industry are outperforming Fonterra, when it should be Fonterra outperforming them. That\u2019s the risk to the dairy industry. That\u2019s the risk to our country. This Government will not stand by, and I will not stand by, and allow that to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u002209ce9f0593fb4ab29ffeed685c1308b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209ce9f0593fb4ab29ffeed685c1308b6\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana. Madam Chair, thank you. I want to change the topic slightly from brown marmorated stink bugs to the greatest animal in the world\u2014the horse\u2014just briefly, and, of course, you\u2019ve got an ex - Minister of Racing sitting next to you. I just briefly want to talk about the only tax relief that came about in the course of the Budget. I think it\u2019s hugely positive for the industry, and I\u2019ll explain why. The tax relief given to the racing industry is exactly the same as tax relief available to all other livestock sectors in New Zealand, and I think it\u2019s a very good bit of tax relief for the industry. The thing that I find extremely unfortunate was the description put around it, and that\u2019s certainly undermined, I think, the credibility of the industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI want to talk about a couple of other things in that sector before I move on to fishing. I want to talk about the synthetic track and the potential for that to happen, because I think that also is exciting for the racing industry in New Zealand. Interestingly, it looks as though that will be funded from the Provincial Growth Fund, and I hope the fact that that happens doesn\u2019t then preclude those tracks from going in places they should go, because, clearly, the Provincial Growth Fund has been designated as a provincial growth fund, not a city growth fund. I think it would be a shame if, as a result of that, the tracks that are proposed by the Minister don\u2019t end up in a place that it\u2019s most important that they should. So I\u2019m not going to pick those spots, but, no doubt, that will happen. I think it\u2019s critical that they do end up where they should. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EVery briefly, on the last couple of topics, I wanted to very briefly speak, in relation to the racing industry\u2014and that\u2019s the Messara report, which has been awaited with interest. The contents will be critical for the industry, and I hope it covers all three codes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI now want to move on to the fishing industry, an industry that\u2019s absolutely critical to all New Zealanders. The reason I want to talk about one or two things in this sector, because I guess the most notable decision that\u2019s been taken by this Government is to delay or stop\u2014and I\u2019m not sure which\u2014the implementation of cameras and even, to some extent, the monitoring that takes place on fishing boats. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI just wanted to briefly talk about the industry because this industry is critical to New Zealand in many ways. It\u2019s a very big commercial industry in New Zealand and it employs thousands of people. But, more than that, there\u2019s an estimated 700,000 of us that want to go out there and catch a fish on Saturday afternoon. Interestingly, the biggest reason for those people wanting to go out and catch fish is not to catch it for food. It is to go out for an afternoon or a day, or whatever, of recreational fishing. The big challenge we\u2019ve got in this industry\u2014and the big challenge the Minister\u2019s got around the implementation of cameras or whatever other compliance measures are chosen to deal with the challenges the industry has\u2014is that this has got to be sustainable from a New Zealand perspective. It\u2019s hugely important for so many New Zealanders that the fishing industry is sustainable and that it\u2019s managed in a manner that we can all participate in and yet can still guarantee New Zealand those huge commercial returns that come to the country as a result of that fishing industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI just wanted to speak briefly about the foreign charter vessel legislation that was put through a year or two ago. It has proved to be pretty successful. I had the opportunity just some weeks ago to visit one of those boats in Lyttelton, and you can\u2019t help but be impressed with the way they are operating. That\u2019s a piece of legislation that was put through the last Parliament, and it certainly has proved to be hugely successful. So it just shows that with a bit of cooperation in an industry and in a sector, we can make a lot of progress with the things that are most important for us as a country and most important for the fishing industry. The last Government commenced an independent review into the fishing industry, and it will be very interesting to see the eventual result of that. That\u2019s pretty critical to us all, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe other really interesting thing that\u2019s going on in the fishing industry is related to aquaculture, and I think it\u2019s most important that we get the Marlborough Sounds salmon issue sorted out very quickly and allow those farms to move on and get on with what they do. Aquaculture is absolutely the key to New Zealand\u2019s future with respect to not so much the fishing industry but the production of food\u2014protein\u2014and it\u2019s a huge opportunity for this country if we can get the settings around aquaculture right. I urge the Minister to get on with that and make those decisions around the Marlborough Sounds as quickly as possible. Thank you, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00221fca513909864e02b451e27a82edca6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fca513909864e02b451e27a82edca6c\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I am pleased to speak in this Estimates debate on the primary industries, and I must acknowledge the previous speaker, Mr McKelvie, a sheep and beef farmer of note from the Rangit\u012Bkei, speaking so passionately about the fishing industry and the aquaculture industry. That just goes to show the passion which members, and former members, of the Primary Production Committee have across all of our primary industries. Whether it is viticulture, sheep and beef, dairy, forestry, we\u2019re all represented in that committee, and we gave quite a thorough examination of the primary industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI want to give a bouquet to the Minister for the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI), the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, for the outstanding job that he has been doing in leading our primary sectors in what are challenging times, and in particular how he has responded to the threat of Mycoplasma bovis and the investments which this Government are now putting into the eradication of that nasty organism. And that has been testament to the leadership of Mr O\u2019Connor and, of course, our coalition Government. It not only spans the MPI sector but I must acknowledge the great team that we have within our coalition Government, because our primary industries are so important that we have dedicated Ministers now who are specialists and who are focusing right across the primary sectors\u2014if we look at Te Uru R\u0101kau, with the Hon Shane Jones and the great work that he\u2019s doing in the forestry sector. He\u2019s literally rejuvenated that forestry sector right across Aotearoa, right from opening headquarters in regional New Zealand. So he has absolutely been the first citizen for the regions with the work that he\u2019s doing in championing our forestry sector. So I commend him for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI must also go on to commend Minister Nash for his great work that he\u2019s doing across the fisheries sector, and I must also include Minister Sage for her work, because a lot of what they are doing in the fisheries sector involves spanning and looking at complicated, complex issues around marine protected areas, sustainability, right through the supply chain into our export markets. So that just demonstrates the cohesiveness that we have with our outstanding Ministers that are leading in these portfolio areas. And, I guess, what further, better proof do we have that we\u2019re doing a great job in these sectors than one only needs to look at the increase in the export revenues that we are generating across these sectors. If you look at the seafood sector, in particular, there are record export revenues, record export growth\u2014$2.1 billion. We\u2019re into the two-billion figure now for fisheries. Likewise, in the forestry sector, a 16 percent increase\u2014$6.4 billion. So the numbers are going up across the board. Of course, we are aware of the challenges that we face. We don\u2019t take it for granted, whether it\u2019s a brown stinkbug or other nasties or organisms. We know how important our industries are, and Mr O\u2019Connor and our wider team are right on top of all of these threats that we face, and are also looking to grow our sectors into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what we want to see: thriving primary industries which are sustaining our families and our regions up and down the country\u2014the sweat and toil that goes on on the land or on the sea\u2014which is done in a sustainable way, which is earning outstanding export revenues and wealth back to our country. So I do stand in support of the Estimates across our primary industries. Our Ministers are doing an outstanding job, and I\u2019m looking forward to supporting their additional measures that they will be putting through as we continue through the course of this Parliament. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00228d936467eb0b4c34828b918ef8b8b6c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d936467eb0b4c34828b918ef8b8b6c9\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Chair. Thank you. And I thank the two previous speakers and note their comments about aquaculture. I was pleased, last week, to be visiting some of the salmon farms in the Marlborough Sounds, and I recognise too the commitment of this Government to tackling climate change, because, of course, with rising sea temperatures as a result of a changing climate, it makes it incredibly difficult for aquaculture, particularly salmon, which are very sensitive to water temperatures, and it can cause quite significant mortality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019d like to speak briefly on tonight is Vote Lands, which I am responsible for. And it\u2019s been a real pleasure taking on this portfolio and the significant work that Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) does, because we have over two million properties in New Zealand\u2014a trillion dollars\u2019 worth of property\u2014and Landonline and the work that LINZ does with the issuing of several hundred thousand titles each year is absolutely central to people\u2019s security of title and to the basis of our economy, with people able to buy and sell properties with security, knowing that the title means that they actually own the land. And there\u2019s quite a lot of work going on there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s also considerable work going on across the Crown sector. LINZ, increasingly, is responsible for the disposal of surplus Crown properties, and it surprised me, as a new Minister, to learn that we did not have a register of all Crown-owned properties. So that is being developed across the State sector\u2014whether it\u2019s education properties, district health boards, and other properties\u2014so that there is a comprehensive register and we actually have a bit more of an inventory and understanding of the property and the assets that the Crown owns. Some of those significant properties are, of course, the Crown pastoral leases in the South Island high country, and it is my ambition, as Minister, to ensure that we have a sustainable farming regime in the high country and one that protects the outstanding landscapes, which are the basis of our tourism industry in the South Island, and also the significant biodiversity values. So there\u2019s a lot of work being done in that space to look at how we can improve the management of Crown pastoral lands, how we can improve decisions around discretionary consents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been a significant investment, in this Budget, in the Overseas Investment Office\u2014an additional $7 million\u2014to enable the office to do more work in the compliance and enforcement space. And that follows on from the major change which this Government introduced with the new ministerial directive to the Overseas Investment Office to make sure that the provisions of the Overseas Investment Act applied to all sales of rural land over five hectares rather than just to the large farms, which occurred under the previous Government, when many rural land sales were put outside the purview and the decisions of the Overseas Investment Office. We\u2019re ensuring that there is much greater attention to the substantial and identifiable benefits that are required, because it is a privilege for an overseas person to buy land in New Zealand. If they are going to get that privilege, they need to ensure that there are substantial and identifiable benefits to the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESome of the other work that LINZ is doing is in the area of light detection and ranging surveys, to give a much better handle on the land and the proneness to things like sea-level rise, and a lot of that mapping work was very useful after both the Christchurch and the Hurunui/Kaik\u014Dura earthquakes. And so there\u2019s a lot of work being done to ensure that we have got more up-to-date mapping data, that it\u2019s digitised\u2014not just the topographic data but looking at applications in the biosecurity space, with wilding control, for example, so that there can be better mapping of the spread and control of wildings; and, similarly, with the rabbit calicivirus\u2014the effective release of that and where it has worked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo LINZ is definitely a digital organisation. It\u2019s investing a lot in information management. It\u2019s investing a lot in maintaining Landonline, in our property database, ensuring that we have got a better register of Crown properties and, with the Overseas Investment Office, making sure that conditions of consent are monitored and complied with. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u00225de9579a06cc4485b4ff6d2890a1c830\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225de9579a06cc4485b4ff6d2890a1c830\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. When I travel the countryside talking to rural communities, the overwhelming feedback I get is uncertainty: uncertainty with this change of Government, with the direction the agriculture and primary industry sectors are taking, and that lack of clarity around how they can drive their business, going forward, without clear parameters in which to operate. There are some challenges in the industry at the moment, and we\u2019ve heard already a bit about Mycoplasma bovis, the threat of brown marmorated stink bug, as well, and this is a time when Government needs to be stepping up, putting a clear mark in the sand, and saying that they are backing the primary sector through these difficult times, and we are not seeing that currently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019re seeing instead is a raft of reviews and a lot of uncertainty around what\u2019s coming up. Are we having another restructure of the Ministry for Primary Industries, for example? We saw that, breaking the ministry apart\u2014but, actually, \u201CNo, we can\u2019t quite break it apart; we\u2019ll just do a bit of rebranding, change the labels.\u201D Then we\u2019ve got challenges around the Dairy Industry Restructuring Act (DIRA) review. That just encourages uncertainty with our farming communities. They need support at these times; they don\u2019t want this hanging over their heads, not knowing what it\u2019s looking like. We are seeing a breadth of parameters outside the scope of DIRA coming into that review as well, and that, again, encourages uncertainty and a lack of confidence within the sector. We\u2019re seeing that up and down the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EThe Primary Sector Council is another example. That\u2019s been set up, but, actually, where is the dairy farming representation on that council? It is strangely absent; there is not a single dairy farmer on there. Where are they? All the other industries are represented, but dairy is sorely lacking. You can have no surprise, then, that the industry takes exception and has uncertain expectations in the air around what the future is for them during these difficult times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EWhen you look at some of these challenges, like the biosecurity challenges in front of us, we need to be making sure that we\u2019ve got the backs of our farmers, and part of that is around mental health. The Rural Health Alliance Aotearoa New Zealand was a key organisation that just had its funding ripped under this Government\u2014$600,000, an absolute minuscule contribution to the rural sector within New Zealand. It\u2019s been cut out altogether. What an example of support for the sector. It\u2019s disappointing to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard already, again, some of these challenges around the alternative protein, or plant-based protein, synthetic protein space that Mr McAnulty was talking about earlier. Well, some of his comments were all over the show. I suspect he\u2019s been eating a bit too much of this plant-based protein himself and is, indeed, starting to resemble, perhaps, a plant-based protein\u2014looking a little bit weak, somewhat of a scientific experiment, in that we just don\u2019t really know if it\u2019s good for us or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EMoving on from that, we have seen a continued lack of support. Irrigation\u2014we\u2019ve already heard from the former Minister about that. The water storage projects, that present huge opportunity for the primary sector in terms of building wealth within the economy, building resilience, having environmental benefits as well, were just cut. What we\u2019re seeing, continually, is virtue signalling\u2014good ideas, good concepts, but a lack of detail that actually supports those on the ground doing the hard yards. It\u2019s disappointing to see, despite the rhetoric, that we are not having a clear line of support for our primary sector. We\u2019re seeing that flow through to market conditions. You go up and down the country, and in the Waikato\u2014my electorate\u2014we have seen land prices stalling in the property market over the last eight, nine months. There is uncertainty; they don\u2019t know what\u2019s happening in that space\u2014there\u2019s the DIRA review, there\u2019s M. bovis, there\u2019s a change in Government, unclear policies. It has a significant impact on the economy, and this Government does not seem to recognise that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EA lack of support is clearly evident in these communities, as well. When I travel around and talk to my rural constituents, they are saying they don\u2019t know what the future holds for them at this point. They are looking for clear support and clear leadership from the Government, but it\u2019s absent. It\u2019s nowhere to be found. What we see again and again is rhetoric coming out of the Government, with no clear indication of the financial support that farmers might expect, how they\u2019re going to drive their productivity and environmental sustainability and business growth\u2014all these aspects that are critical to any industry, but we\u2019re seeing that, in particular, in the rural sector at the moment. It\u2019s a shame that this Government won\u2019t step up and fill that gap as it\u2019s needed. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00223a483f366a42406781077013bce469dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a483f366a42406781077013bce469dc\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess, given the importance of the primary sector to this economy, I just thought I would take a second call and clarify a few things for the previous speaker, Tim van de Molen, in particular. I guess that\u2019s the problem: if you ask a rural banker to do an assessment, the chances are they will come up with the wrong one, for the wrong reasons. He\u2019s probably better off in Parliament than he is out there in the wider field. Can I say that there is a dairy farmer on the Primary Sector Council. Julian Raine, in fact, is leading the way, with Appleby Farms Ice Cream, with Aunt Jean\u2019s Dairy fresh milk, and is actually showing the industry that there is an opportunity to get out there with high-value products from the dairy industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I just refer briefly to the Primary Sector Council, because it is a group of lateral-thinking, innovative, and disruptive people who have a passion for the industry, who have been brought together, not as a group of representatives, which has always been the kind of traditional National Party way; this is a group of people who have a passion to look into the future and deliver a vision for us, because we haven\u2019t had one across the primary sector. \u201CWhat are we doing and why are we doing it?\u201D\u2014that question was never asked by the previous Government, and it\u2019s one that I can\u2019t answer myself, but I put that to a group of very, very experienced and passionate people who are getting on with that job, under Lain Jager, under his chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI think he sees that this is a really interesting group of people to chair, because they are all quite strong-minded. They have a passion, as I\u2019ve said before, and are independent thinkers, and that\u2019s what I want from them. But they will deliver a vision, and they accept that we, as a country, are delivering food and nutrition, not just primary industry\u2014lambs or logs or fish. In fact, we are now in the challenge of delivering the finest protein to the world\u2019s most discerning customers and getting the best value for that, because if we don\u2019t, we\u2019re actually going to stumble as a food-producing nation. So that\u2019s what they understand is the challenge for us, and they, I think, are getting on with the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EMid-stream, I have to say\u2014and I\u2019ve just written it down here\u2014and I spoke of M. bovis before, can I acknowledge the farmers caught up in this terrible challenge that we have. There are a large number of farmers\u2014probably 800 or thereabouts\u2014who have been directly affected. It\u2019s very, very challenging. They are under a whole lot of stress. We\u2019re trying to put in place the best support systems for them. It\u2019s not easy, but they are taking a hit for their colleagues and for the future of agriculture in this country. Can I just say thank you for their participation and their cooperation, and we will get through and succeed if we all do the same thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I just very briefly, before I sit down, talk of New Zealand Food Safety. In terms of a country producing the finest food for the people in the world, we have got a good reputation but we must ensure that whatever we produce, whatever we grow, whatever we process, whatever we package, going off is the safest and finest food, as I say, for the world\u2019s most discerning customers. In that area, we\u2019ve set up, firstly, New Zealand Food Safety as a business unit within the Ministry for Primary Industries, but we then got on with the job\u2014jobs that have been sitting around for a while. Firstly, we\u2019re consulting on an organic standard\u2014one standard that we can be proud of and can be credible for the export of New Zealand organic products. It hasn\u2019t been done before. The last Government ignored it; we\u2019re getting on with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve been talking with the hemp industry. There is potential for hemp, hemp seed, and then hemp as a fibre to get out there. It\u2019s a new opportunity\u2014something that\u2019s been scoffed at by some people, but actually a real opportunity\u2014again, for people who are really discerning customers around the world, looking for natural products. We\u2019ve just had a wool summit\u2014again, something to push off opportunities from the very stagnant position that they have been in for quite some time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe other area, in terms of food safety, that we have\u2014we grasped the nettle, and we now have in place a m\u0101nuka honey standard. For years, people have been telling us they can\u2019t believe that the m\u0101nuka honey sold offshore isn\u2019t, indeed, true to label. So we had to get on and put in place, after years of procrastination by the previous Government, a standard that all those honey producers have to adhere to. It hasn\u2019t been easy for them, and some are trying to get around the rules, but if they stick to the rules, we build our integrity, and they will get even more value for that m\u0101nuka honey. We have done a lot more in the food area, and we\u2019ll continue to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022 data-id=\u0022f158b223433342638d89f5b0760405b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f158b223433342638d89f5b0760405b3\u0022\u003EHAMISH WALKER (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m delighted to stand up and take a call on agriculture in the Estimates debate. I want to start by acknowledging members of the National Party, New Zealand First, and Labour, who sit on the Primary Production Committee. If you want an example of a really good select committee\u2014we\u2019re all members, regardless of what side of the House you\u2019re from\u2014you need to come and witness, come and experience, our select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5ad0f5ddc5f4cf8830005781fbc4ee1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t need to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e48d627e882a4fbf8afdd3db87a5ef3e\u0022\u003EHAMISH WALKER\u003C/span\u003E: We have a lot of fun and\u2014sorry, Madam Chair. And for any members in the Chamber, if you do want to get legislation put through the House, the best place to put it is the Primary Production Committee, because we do have a good time. We actually come together for the benefit of farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EI want to also acknowledge the Minister of Agriculture, Damien O\u2019Connor. I know you work hard around the Cabinet table, Minister. What I hear from feedback from people that you\u2019ve met with, you have got farmers\u2019 interests and New Zealand\u2019s interests at heart, but, unfortunately, you are working with an extreme-left, anti-farming Government. But I do know that you do work hard\u2014considering you\u2019ve got David Parker running round telling people he wants to cap cow numbers. He also wants to, basically, put farmers out of business, bringing them into the emissions trading scheme, which is going to cost farmers on average $5,000 to $10,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003ETo give you more credit, Minister, you had a protest march on the West Coast over the weekend, and you turned up as the MP. You were the lone Labour MP there; you had no mates. I think the National Party\u2019s Maureen Pugh, who\u2019s doing a wonderful job\u2014she turned up with a few National MPs. And Mark, how many New Zealand First MPs were there? Maybe half a dozen or so. So it\u2019s great to see the National Party and New Zealand First supporting the coast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EI do worry for the industry. At Field Days we had a rural-proofing policy announcement from the Labour Party. If you go on to their website, it says we want to \u201Cengage with rural health professionals to ensure adequate access \u2026 and acute treatment for all rural New Zealanders\u201D. Hmm! Very interesting. If that was the case, why is the Lumsden Maternity Centre being shut down? This is a wonderful hospital where over a hundred mothers give birth each year. And then, if you want to take the M. bovis outbreak, and I appreciate\u2014[Interruption]. Madam Chair, I think I hear a screaming cat. Is there a cat in the Chamber? Can anyone else hear a cat?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e7fc6038b7647a39ba715a82d817949\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I think you need to focus on the Estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243df324d2feb4cdbbaa12bfd873e0c1d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t tell Gareth Morgan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a0f45cb047e486693216c789626b6e7\u0022\u003EHAMISH WALKER\u003C/span\u003E: Better not mention that. So with the M. bovis outbreak, Minister Guy did a wonderful job in 2013 with the Government industry agreement (GIA) where he got 16 primary industry sector groups together to ensure that if an outbreak or an incursion did happen, which they do from time to time\u2014we\u2019ve got 180,000 items crossing our border each day. So Minister Guy did a wonderful job in 2013, where industry would pay 12 percent of an outbreak to ensure that, if there is a possible outbreak, industry wants to come to the table first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EPoor old Minister O\u2019Connor here had to go round Cabinet with his begging bowl asking for more money and he was looking at charging industry 40 percent for a GIA. So I commend the Minister for getting that down to 32 percent. Unfortunately, this is going to cost the industry an extra quarter of a billion dollars. We also saw the Minister going round saying that the National Party wasn\u2019t doing enough in biosecurity. The Budget comes around and, hooray, they get another $9 million increase in biosecurity. If that was the case, you would have thought they needed $100 million. The National Party last year increased biosecurity by $18 million. Yes, that\u2019s right. Twice as much as what\u2014sorry, Madam Chair, I think there\u2019s a cat in the House. I think there\u2019s a cat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0b197d6f44744b9833e8889eed4734c\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Love the way you diminish women. You diminish women. How lovely!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201bc2a2505e4484f8581d9efee1e8851\u0022\u003EHAMISH WALKER\u003C/span\u003E: For farming communities to stay strong\u2014you don\u2019t go round as the Minister for Children and shut the Roxburgh children\u2019s camp. Minister Tracey Martin, you campaigned on looking after the most vulnerable children, and you go and shut down the Roxburgh children\u2019s camp\u2014absolutely disgraceful. The Lumsden Maternity Centre\u2014that\u2019s about to be shut down. Te \u0100nau rescue helicopter base\u2014what do you know? That\u2019s on the chopping block.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EI do want to finish on a positive. I just do want to commend the Minister for doing a wonderful job. You do have to put up with a lot with your anti-farming Government. Keep it going, Minister. I just want to say how much I have enjoyed the Primary Production Committee, and I\u2019m looking forward to our meeting on Thursday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u002277efe7e0a79b447bac4e22c54b784b6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277efe7e0a79b447bac4e22c54b784b6e\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise in this appropriations debate for the primary industries, and, of course, as we all know, this is the most important of the appropriations because in this House we spend a lot of time debating how we\u2019re going to allocate funding. This is how we earn the money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI commend the Minister of Agriculture on the leadership he\u2019s showing in this sector, but I also would like to just acknowledge the chair of our Primary Production Committee, David Bennett. As the previous speaker, Mr Walker, has alluded, it is quite a bipartisan committee, and I witnessed something quite extraordinary tonight. The Hon David Bennett got up and made quite a diplomatic speech in terms of his representation of what happened. It\u2019s a side of him I hadn\u2019t seen before. The last time I saw him attempt diplomacy was when the Welsh Minister for Communities turned up in a diplomatic mission looking at Brexit and how the Welsh farming community can come through that particular thing, and the honourable member gave her a five-minute lecture on the evils of subsidies. That was his previous effort at diplomacy, so it\u2019s good to see that moving along. Can I say that when we are talking about the primary sector\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241804e664a9348198952d26977b4e94f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Can we now come to the Estimates. Just briefly sort of mention the Estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206862d940dc24e44bef02a5fb72bc276\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes, the Estimates\u2014it is the M. bovis; M. bovis is hanging over this sector. It has dominated our thinking, and as the Minister said to those farmers, our thoughts are with them. I just want to articulate something that happened. What I\u2019ve seen from the Minister actually is\u2014in fact, I witnessed it on Saturday night. I got an email through on my phone at 9:45 p.m. at night. An M. bovis farmer had contacted him personally to express some concerns, and he was replying to it at 9:45 p.m. on a Saturday night, and I think that typifies the heart and soul that he\u2019s putting into this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EBut in terms of the appropriations, there are a few things. Of course, Minister Jones gave an outstanding presentation on the billion trees strategy. What a nation-building effort that is going to be as we seek to make our Paris Agreement commitments and take responsibility for our own emissions. Mr Walker can say it\u2019s going to cost farmers $5,000 or $10,000\u2014I\u2019m not sure how he knows that. That commission has not come back. But we do need to face those responsibilities, and this Government is prepared to take those hard decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EAs the Minister said before, Land Information New Zealand\u2014and what a shame, I think we had 465,000 hectares of land transferred into foreign ownership in 2016, and we are taking some action on that. We have tightened those criteria and having to go down to the 5 hectares to notify and make it have identifiable benefits, and it\u2019s about time that happened, too. We\u2019re on the side of young New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe other side that we\u2019ve talked about is the Primary Sector Council. I\u2019ve heard a little bit about this today in disparaging tones from across the Chamber, and I will say how wrong they are. The Minister and I were at the Red Meat Sector Conference yesterday and the theme of that was disruptive technology, and I will take a bit of issue with the soon-to-be member for Wairarapa that\u2019s sitting next to me, Kieran McAnulty\u2014this is a challenge for our industry that we do need to meet. And there were all sorts of things: blockchain and, of course, the aforementioned Impossible burger, which seems to follow me everywhere. But we\u2019ve got to look seriously at this stuff. We\u2019ve got a $42 billion sector and $23 billion of that is still going out in raw commodities. There is massive scope for us to improve this, and this Primary Sector Council is a cost-effective way of bringing the best brains in our industry together to look at those challenges. As I said at the start, this is the sector that pays the bills, so I think this is an incredibly important development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe also see within the appropriations the OVERSEER, the investment in that\u2014and that\u2019s very wise as we seek to meet our environmental expectations and our social licence to operate that programme, that was never designed to be a regulatory tool but has developed. And it\u2019s great to see that we are putting some resource into that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe Sustainable Farming Fund\u2014this is a Government that\u2019s looking at the big issues. We are looking to not just the next focus group but to the next 10, 20, 50, and 100 years. So I\u2019m looking forward to continuing on with the good progress that this Government\u2019s making under primary industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022db623ce9dc994010882f10caa53af5b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db623ce9dc994010882f10caa53af5b5\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. One thing that I will agree on with the last speaker is that, yes, this is the most important of the appropriations. While I don\u2019t sit on the Primary Production Committee, I did for three years, and I\u2019m never far away. To put a quote in place before I get on with the appropriations, as I turned up at the Mystery Creek Field Days in my electorate, Mark Patterson said, \u201COh, am I ever going to go to an industry event where I don\u2019t see you?\u201D\u2014I\u2019m not referring to you, Madam Chair\u2014and I said, \u201CNever.\u201D So there you go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI want to speak about M. bovis to start off with because that\u2019s taking up, obviously, the lion\u2019s share of the funding as we go forward. We\u2019ve all got to get in and support this phased eradication\u2014at least, our one shot at it. We\u2019re all going to be, also, very carefully watching this spring time as we work through this most stressful of times, because one of the things that I\u2019ve said to the Minister, and will continue to say to the Minister, is we must know where the off-ramps are. We do hope we can eradicate this disease, but if we get to a point where we realise that we have lost the game, in terms of dollars, we need to be realistic. We don\u2019t want to be spending $900 million and then finding out that we\u2019ve actually lost the battle. So it\u2019s really important that we keep a very, very solid handle on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI also want to make mention of those farmers out there that are going through that process. I have had lots of calls, I have had lots of emails, and I\u2019ve spoken to a lot of people, and it\u2019s been a very, very hard time\u2014not just with the disease, and not just having to go through the loss of their cows and the culling of their cows, but it does need to be noted that there have been delays in compensation. There have been times when the timing of the culls of those cows has actually made a difference to the farmers, and we\u2019re noticing it right now, particularly when they\u2019re in that calving time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EIt hasn\u2019t always been the clearest of situations. Moving forward, it has got clearer, and I thank everyone for the clarity of at least knowing where we\u2019re heading, but I can tell you that the rural support trusts have picked up a lot of people, and I do want to put a call out to all of those people who work tirelessly in the rural support trusts. I know Neil Bateup very well, just to mention a couple of names, and Mike Green is another one who\u2019s in our local area, and they work absolutely tirelessly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to mention OVERSEER, because I have noted that in the last Budget there was money put forward for OVERSEER. Now, OVERSEER\u2019s been one of those programs that\u2019s had its glitches for quite some time. It\u2019s actually, on a general purpose, sort of, kind of accurate when you put it all together, but by farm and per farm it\u2019s actually not so accurate and quite difficult to use. It\u2019s good to see funding go into that, but I think we need to think about the wider purpose of OVERSEER as well, because OVERSEER, really, if you look at the end result of what we want from OVERSEER, we actually want cleaner waterways. There is a difference in what councils are doing around the country. We\u2019ve got some councils that are using OVERSEER to measure. We\u2019ve got other councils who are actually looking at what the water quality is and then working backwards from the quality of the water to see what needs to be done. So I think OVERSEER is a tool and I think we can still improve it, but we shouldn\u2019t overplay it, because it will be one tool in a tool box of things that are effective for cleaning up our waterways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EOn that, I was very pleased to hear the conversation before about water storage. We\u2019re talking about primary industries now, we\u2019re talking about water storage, and we\u2019re talking about the estimates around catchments. I do hope, when we continue to talk about water storage, that we actually talk about water storage in terms of communities, rather than just the old story that it\u2019s just about farming and it\u2019s just for farmers, because it\u2019s for the environment and it\u2019s for the people who live in the town, and we are not short of water in this country; we are just short of water storage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe other thing I would like to talk about is a little bit about forestry, in the short time that I\u2019ve got left. There are lots of conversations going on about how many trees we\u2019re going to plant. I think we need to think a lot more about rural proofing and the roads that those trees are going to be carted out on in the future, and all the other dynamics that go around trees. We\u2019ve seen some quite bad events in the eastern North Island recently. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022815eb1b9a3024d58a477fe4c30ef8b04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022815eb1b9a3024d58a477fe4c30ef8b04\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana e Maine Vaa Tuatua. It\u2019s a delight to be able to take a brief call in the primary industries appropriations debate for the upcoming period. Things have become a little excitable over the last half-hour, and rightly so because the primary industries are blimmin\u2019 exciting. But one thing I must say, having had the opportunity to sit in on the Primary Industry Committee here and there, is I do want to acknowledge the bipartisanship and just general approach to the primary sector from across the House. I want to acknowledge the chair, Brett Hudson\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e82bb6cc2b940c6a185226700bf0c48\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288f0909d98b744a8a69e7b32ec5b1760\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and our colleagues from both sides of the aisle. That wasn\u2019t funny, Mr McAnulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab304b890c264bbda4a27e494a98391d\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s the wrong bloke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aff7feff91084a8b8fd5909854ad6a89\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s right. Ha, ha! We digress. There\u2019s a range of, I guess, particular areas where I really want to commend the Minister, Minister O\u2019Connor, for his leadership and vision. Many of us who are based in the regions are required to engage thoroughly (1) because we love it and (2) because the primary industries are the backbone of our regional economies. Minister O\u2019Connor, in every single environment I go to\u2014now, I don\u2019t know about what these guys are saying from across the aisle, but at pretty much every single primary industry event that I attend, the Minister is spoken about extremely highly by the leaders and workers within the primary industries. So, Minister, thank you for your leadership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ELook, one of the things that I find particularly necessary is that the Minister\u2019s approach to the primary industries is that we have to work in partnership\u2014Government side by side with our primary sector, because, at the end of the day, what\u2019s good for our primary industries is good for our regions. What\u2019s good for our regions is good for New Zealand. Look, I want to note a couple of the particular instances where I think that the Minister has shown real leadership. It\u2019s been widely traversed this evening\u2014the response to M. bovis. I too want to join with the plethora of voices from across both sides of the aisle that acknowledge those that have been caught within\u2014I guess we could recognise it as\u2014almost a national tragedy. So I do want to acknowledge your work and leadership alongside the primary industry leaders. I know that there\u2019s a lot of work that went into the determination to eradicate; so thank you for your leadership there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s also been a whole range of discussions this evening about the Primary Sector Council, and the Opposition seem to be slagging it left, right, and centre, but the thing is that every single primary industry environment that I\u2019ve been in, at every single event I\u2019ve been at over the past, well, month or so at the very least, there\u2019s been a lot of hope, actually. There\u2019s a lot of jubilation about what the leaders from across the primary sector, generally, may achieve when working in collaboration with each other and with us. So I want to acknowledge your work there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThird: a tricky issue that seemed to be one of the many stumbling blocks of the previous Government was trying to reach a determination on the m\u0101nuka definition. Now, that had its challenges, but, again, very short into the Minister\u2019s tenure, there was a determination around the scientific definition of m\u0101nuka. So, too, I want to acknowledge your work there. Look, there\u2019s been a fair bit of discussion this evening about\u2014I\u2019ve mentioned M. bovis, but also a topic very dear to my heart, particularly being from the East Coast\u2014horticulture and the biosecurity risks that threaten our primary industries, particularly from the horticultural perspective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThere was an immeasurable investment that the Minister and this Government made into biosecurity. There are challenges. As I\u2019ve heard the Minister say, the biggest challenge for us collectively\u2014New Zealand\u2014is biosecurity risks when it comes to our primary industries. This isn\u2019t an issue just for the Minister and the Government; it\u2019s an issue for us all. So I thank you again for your leadership there. T\u0113n\u0101 koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022 data-id=\u0022365dec4af92d491db34c916d72df2b27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022365dec4af92d491db34c916d72df2b27\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It is a pleasure to be speaking on the Estimates in the primary sector part of the debate. Minister O\u2019Connor, I\u2019d like to correct you, I think, when I say that Julian Raine, while she\u2019s a dairy farmer, she is not the dairy rep. There is no dairy representative. She is actually there as the chairman of Horticulture New Zealand. So I back up what Tim van de Molen said\u2014that there is no dairy representative on the council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThe second point I\u2019d like to make is to quote back Kiritapu Allan\u2019s words\u2014and I hope I get this right, Ms Allan\u2014when she said, \u201CWhat\u2019s good for the primary sector is good for the regions, and what is good for the regions is good for New Zealand.\u201D I could not agree with her more, and I invite her to come over and support the regions, support the primary sector, and come and sit on this side of the Chamber, because that is what we do here. That is what we do here. Unfortunately, Ms Allan, your policies on that side of the Chamber do not support the primary sector and they do not support the regions. We\u2019ve already traversed water storage. We\u2019ve talked about bringing agriculture into the emissions trading scheme, and I could talk about regional fuel tax, and so on. So don\u2019t tell me that the Government supports regional New Zealand. You cannot tell me that the Government supports primary sector production.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224299cf093f2a4f508d5cda6dd1eb6af6\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9aa05884e52408a8f81b00e8f82a8ea\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you can say it all you like, but it doesn\u2019t make it true, Mr McAnulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003ESo I turn to forestry, and much can be said about the Minister of Forestry. He talks a big story but has delivered virtually nothing\u2014nothing whatsoever. He might look good in a high-vis vest, but delivery is the problem. And I\u2019d like to get into the select committee report if I can, when we talked about 1 billion trees in 10 years\u20141 billion trees. Well, half of them will already be planted through the replantation of existing forests, without any interruption or interference or support from any Government. So we\u2019re only talking half a billion trees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s some good things that planting trees will achieve: \u201Cprovide climate benefits, and help the Government meet its carbon obligations.\u201D\u2014that was mentioned\u2014and \u201Cincrease employment in rural areas in growing rural economies\u201D. But I ask the question: how? How is the Government going to do that? It also talks about reducing alpine and coastal erosion through soil consolidation and catchment. But how is that going to be implemented? What are the real underlying actions that are going to deliver these goals and objectives? And, of course, there is increasing the economic return on land. Well, very laudable goals and aspirations, but there\u2019s nothing in here that tells me how the Government is going to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThere are three problems that the Government faces in forestry: we don\u2019t know where the seedlings are going to come from; we don\u2019t know what land is available\u2014where is the land that all these trees are going to be planted on; and, most importantly, who is going to be planting these trees? I ask the Minister if he can help me out here. Are we going to loosen up immigration policy to allow trees to be planted? Are we going to loosen up immigration? And it\u2019s not just forestry in the primary sector, as he knows; we\u2019re short of people in the dairy sector to milk the cows. We\u2019re short of people in the beehive industry. We\u2019re short of truck drivers. Can you believe it? We are short of truck drivers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EI had a guy in the office the other day pleading, \u201CCan we loosen up immigration, because we need people in the regions. We need the work to be done.\u201D So, Minister, please advocate and talk with your colleagues\u2014and particularly Mr Lees-Galloway\u2014to suggest that there is work to be done in the regions and we need to support the regions by allowing people to come in to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EI tell you what: the nephews aren\u2019t going to do it. The nephews aren\u2019t going to cut the mustard. The big problem in the forestry sector is the failing of drug tests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269a9c890843b421ea5f9c691604254d1\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, for goodness\u2019 sake!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bbc96343a634a8fbcd8e87cd7badbd3\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a fact. Go out and ask the foresters, Ms Martin. Ask what their main problem is. It is finding clean workers\u2014clean workers. So I invite the Minister to come with me to the forestry sector and talk to the people who find it difficult to find appropriately clean workers in the sector. It is a real problem, and there should be no tolerance. There should be zero tolerance, and that is the standard that the forestry sector, I\u2019m sure, will keep and maintain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c88248b5d40e4301b1f6967fcef2c563\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote Agriculture, Biosecurity, Fisheries and Food Safety, Vote Forestry, and Vote Lands be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVotes agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228a1708aa3f0640ae904836ced1bdda50\u0022\u003ESocial Services and Community Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00220e6b658b2c9b416f8846171fd0fff679\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e6b658b2c9b416f8846171fd0fff679\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to the votes in the social services and community sector, B.5, Volume 10. The question is that Vote Arts, Culture and Heritage, Vote Building and Housing, Vote Oranga Tamariki, Vote Pacific Peoples, Vote Social Development, Vote Social Housing, Vote Sport and Recreation, and Vote Women stand part of the schedules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022318127cc3735454481d000fb912f3b38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022318127cc3735454481d000fb912f3b38\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Chair. I rise to speak in support of the Estimates. As the chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee, it was a real privilege to work with three parties on the committee to review the hearings. We heard from a number of Ministers. The Estimates reviews and the reports in this debate in the committee play a key role in the financial scrutiny of our Parliament over our executive\u2014in other words, our Government\u2014spending. The committee had\u2014can I put it diplomatically\u2014some robust and vigorous questions and answers, and I had to call only one time-out during the number of hearings; so I want to acknowledge all the members and everyone who participated in a very good-natured, very constructive though robust process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe conducted hearings and tabled reports on the Estimates for Vote Social Development, Vote Social Housing, Vote Building and Housing, Vote Oranga Tamariki, Vote Women, Vote Pacific Peoples, Vote Sport and Recreation, and Vote Arts, Culture and Heritage for appropriations with the responsibility of the Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector, and within the State services, designing and implementing social investment. I want to quickly run through each of the votes and a bit of a highlight of the long list we reviewed and published a report on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EFirst up, in Vote Social Development, in 2018-19, the total funding of this vote was $24.285 billion\u2014one of the Government\u2019s largest single expenditures. Nearly 90 percent of this goes towards benefits and superannuation. We heard from the Minister for Social Development, Carmel Sepuloni, on the Government\u2019s Families Package, overhauling the welfare system and ensuring people receive their full entitlements. The committee asked questions around reducing long-term welfare dependency and why there was an increase in the young parent payment. Under this vote, we also heard from the disability Minister, and Minister for Seniors, Tracey Martin, who discussed performance measures in the work of the Office for Disability Issues in advocacy for seniors, preventing loneliness among seniors, and the Government\u2019s new winter energy payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn a second major area, we heard from Ministers Twyford and Salesa on Estimates for Vote Building and Housing. A major point of discussion was the Government\u2019s KiwiBuild programme. This programme aims to build 100,000 affordable first homes over the next 10 years and Budget 2018-19 seeks $492 million towards it. Questions were asked around the financial structure and KiwiBuild Buying off the Plans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn Vote Social Housing, we heard of the Government\u2019s work managing the 63,000 homes, housing 180,000 Kiwis, and we heard about the work on social and other transitional housing measures. A major issue of discussion was tenancy reviews, with the Government pausing tenancy reviews while it considers specific exemptions. Another area of question was around the 8,108 people, as of April 2018, on the State house waiting list\u2014an increase of 2,000 since September\u2014and the Government\u2019s policy of a net additional 6,400 public houses over the next four years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EFor Vote Oranga Tamariki, we heard from the Minister for Children, Tracey Martin, who I must commend as the first Minister I have seen in my 8\u00BD years to actually pull out a whiteboard and explain the process behind Oranga Tamariki and how the $951 million is to be spent. We heard about the work of performance measures and the child well-being strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn Vote Women, we heard from the Minister for Women, Julie Anne Genter, on the work towards closing the gender pay gap, promoting women in leadership roles, and the 125th anniversary of suffrage in New Zealand, amongst other issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn Vote Arts, Culture and Heritage, we heard of the 7 percent funding increase and the increase in funding for New Zealand music, the Regional Culture and Heritage Fund, funding for regional museums, as well as the specific case of the Dominion Museum building and the Great War Exhibition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn Estimates for Vote Pacific Peoples, we heard from Aupito William Sio, and the committee discussed the Pasifika Education Centre, homeownership rates amongst the Pacific population, and the Pasifika economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ELastly, we heard from the Minister for Sport and Recreation, a true sports fan in the Hon Grant Robertson, and we discussed the declining levels of participation in sport amongst young people, adult volunteers, drug-free sport, and the appropriateness of lotteries funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to end by thanking the members of the committee, the Office of the Clerk staff, and the Ministers and their teams who appeared and participated in this very important parliamentary process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4cf6970e6cb4fa08274987442b7c81f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4cf6970e6cb4fa08274987442b7c81f\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Chair. I\u2019m pleased to stand in this Estimates debate and particularly focus my time on social development. This, of course, is $25 billion a year that taxpayers put into social development; so it is worthy of a lengthy debate in this Chamber. One of the things that was concerning right from the get-go was a Minister that climbed straight into a defensive position about not wishing to reduce the number of people on benefits\u2014and, as we\u2019ve seen in the quarter to 30 June, actually, the number in every one except one category of benefits has increased. I would have thought a Minister responsible for $25 billion worth of taxpayer spending would have had an interest, or at least a passing glance, at knowing what those numbers were. The Minister was unable to answer simple questions around, for example, the significant increase in the young parent payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut I want to just look at some of the figures in particular around, for example, jobseeker support. So in a situation where the Government\u2019s inherited a very strong economy with low unemployment\u2014we\u2019ve seen unemployment fall even further in more recent times\u2014to then have an increase in the number of people on the jobseeker benefit is somewhat concerning. At the same time, the Minister made lengthy observations, as reported in the Estimates report back to this House, around the effort to deliberately reduce the number of obligations that are placed on people who are seeking work. One of the examples that the Minister referred to was around sanctions, and, unfortunately, a lot of people misunderstand the whole discussion around sanctions. Sanctions are a number of obligations that are placed on those who are seeking employment through the jobseeker support\u2014mutual obligations which, really, are a social contract. So if taxpayers are supporting you, there are a few obligations: being available for appointments, turning up for interviews, taking on work that\u2019s available, and, where required, being drug-free.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe Minister talked at length not just about the intention to remove sanctions but not to apply them. We\u2019ve recently had a 23 percent reduction in the number of sanctions being applied\u2014you know, that\u2019s more than one in five; it\u2019s nearly one in four that the Minister has then put down to mistakes, errors by front-line staff. I have to say, I\u2019ve not seen a Minister appear before a select committee in that way and be quite so critical of front-line staff. It was surprising and concerning to see that the Minister wasn\u2019t supporting the many thousands of front-line staff who go to work each and every day, to what this side of the Chamber believes is to ensure that each and every New Zealander achieves their potential. And yes, they experience times of hardship, and taxpayers are more than willing to support people in their times of need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s interesting to see that the Minister also spoke at length about the intention for this big welfare working group review but actually provided very little detail around the scope of that work, which was also interesting given that, having been in Opposition for nine years, there was a long opportunity, lengthy periods of time, to work out some of the policies that the Minister was then going to deliver. Of course, the Minister I\u2019m referring to\u2014just for those who are watching in the House\u2014isn\u2019t the Minister that\u2019s currently in the chair. I\u2019m referring, of course, to the Minister for Social Development, the Hon Carmel Sepuloni.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThere were a number of areas that the discussion focused on. Part of that was ensuring people got their full entitlement, and yet half a billion dollars that\u2019s been identified as not being claimed isn\u2019t in the Budget. So this is a Minister who\u2019s responsible for one of the largest areas of spending of taxpayers\u2019 money, has accepted there\u2019s half a billion dollars in entitlements that aren\u2019t being claimed, and yet, hasn\u2019t allowed for it in the Budget documents. We raised that with the Auditor-General; that\u2019s clearly a liability for the Crown that hasn\u2019t been included anywhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESpeaking of liabilities, one of the areas that was deeply, deeply concerning was the acceptance that there were 10,000 people on the social housing register, and a real lack of understanding that, for some people, they are so unable to access support through Work and Income that they can\u2019t even get on the social housing register. It was very disappointing to see a Minister not even have a simple grasp of those people that are very hard to access, and no plan for accessing them. In fact, initiatives that are showing progress, like the place-based initiatives which are social investment on the ground, really changing lives in terms of making it easier for those who need our support the most to access the services\u2014actually, no plan for the long-term deployment of things that really make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo platitudes around intensive wrap-around support\u2014which, of course, were initiatives that came from the previous Government\u2014and a pure lack of understanding about those that need it most. It was echoed by the Minister of Housing and Urban Development, who actually didn\u2019t care at all about the fact that there are large parts of this country who aren\u2019t being supported by the $100 million that supposedly is being put in to social housing, and is quite comfortable with the fact that people in places like Tokerau, Taup\u014D, and T\u016Brangi that have high needs won\u2019t get access to it. Although he\u2019s promised on multiple occasions that no one needs to live in a car this winter, I can give him multiple examples. We discussed it in the select committee in the Estimates hearing, and the Minister clearly was not interested in providing support, providing solutions, or coming up with dollars, even though they\u2019re a Government that\u2019s awash with cash.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo it was a bit conflicting, a bit disappointing, in terms of Vote Social Development, to not have a Minister that was across the detail of her portfolio, that was bagging her staff, and really doesn\u2019t believe in the potential of New Zealanders who want to get ahead, who want to fulfil their potential, and understand that the space of obligations is about being able to ensure that people who are receiving support from other taxpayers understand that they have obligations and understand there are opportunities for them to pursue those areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESocial investment was an area that was also in the Estimates, and I think there are some areas that the Minister realised there was clear agreement. In fact, she actually said that one of the challenges has been that a lot of people misunderstood\u2014and I think, probably, early on, her as well\u2014what social investment was all about. At the heart of it, social investment is about changing lives. It\u2019s about how to ensure, through clear targeting, through clear use of data and information, the ability to absolutely focus and hone taxpayer support to those who need it most. And many of those are people who don\u2019t access the online website, who don\u2019t look at the website to see what their entitlements are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWe had quite a great discussion about what you have to do as a superannuitant to make sure that your information is correct and to make sure that you are getting the right amount for your superannuation. It was really interesting to note that we had a lengthy discussion around the forms. The forms have been improved in recent years to make sure that people accurately completed their form and to make sure that they were getting the right amount for their superannuation. Unfortunately, we\u2019ve had numerous examples of people who haven\u2019t; who\u2019ve been overpaid. We did go through it in quite a lot of detail, just to make sure that the process was simple and that it was easy. We reviewed the form there in person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo the Minister for Social Development has said that she\u2019s committed to ensuring that more people get what they\u2019re entitled to, and yet, on the books, hasn\u2019t accounted for it, and also hasn\u2019t accounted for how to collect from those who\u2019ve been overpaid, and to ensure that those sorts of inaccuracies are picked up earlier, because, obviously, taxpayers are fair-minded, want to support those who have times of need, but also want to make sure they fulfil their obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00221c1a2275a45a495c932ef29be81c7bcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c1a2275a45a495c932ef29be81c7bcb\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Chair. It is with great pleasure that I rise to talk about the Social Services and Community Committee, and there is so much to talk about. Firstly, there were a number of Government Ministers we heard from, all of whom, actually\u2014completely contrary to what the previous speaker who resumed her seat, Louise Upston, said\u2014were incredibly over the detail of their portfolios, were compassionate to boot, and reflected this coalition Government\u2019s focus on bringing kindness back and, actually, this Government\u2019s vision to ensure that everyone is able to live with dignity. That was across a number of portfolios, whether it was about improving housing, increasing public housing that\u2019s available, or increasing affordable housing so that everyone has good-quality, warm, dry homes that they could actually afford to live in. There is the fact that Housing New Zealand houses are being redeveloped so that they\u2019re fit for purpose, and large-scale developments across New Zealand that will include affordable housing as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Housing and Urban Development acknowledged that workforce constraints do pose a bit of a barrier. It is a bit of a challenge, but there is significant work under way to determine solutions to that. At the end of the day, we know\u2014we heard from Ministers\u2014that we do have a housing shortage. Members opposite have just started acknowledging that there is a housing crisis\u2014the fact that we are short of about 71,000 homes across the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EMinisters also outlined this Government\u2019s vision to eliminate poverty. The Child Poverty Reduction Bill will require this Government to develop and report on a strategy to promote the overall well-being of children\u2014the child well-being strategy, which is a cross-Government approach to ensure that every child is supported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWe heard from the Minister for Women, who outlined her vision to ensure that women are supported to live free from violence, her focus on removing some of those barriers that women face to getting into leadership positions, addressing pay equity, and closing the gender pay gap. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EIn social development\u2014a massive amount of change, both in terms of ensuring, as I mentioned before, that everyone is supported to live with dignity but also that the process that they go through, whether it\u2019s through Work and Income or through Oranga Tamariki, ensures that dignity is supported as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe Families Package is a major policy initiative in Budget 2018, and it encompasses a variety of new initiatives aimed at increasing the incomes of low and middle income New Zealanders, including the winter energy payment, to ensure that those who are on a benefit\u2014our superannuitants as well; many of whom can\u2019t afford the heating that they need to get through winter\u2014are supported. There is the Best Start tax credit to ensure that every child in New Zealand has the best start in life, changes to the accommodation supplement, Working for Families tax credits\u2014and the list goes on. The fact that of children in poverty 40 percent are from working households is a fact that this Government does not think is acceptable, and has a plan to change it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ETreating people with dignity\u2014unlike, again, the previous speaker, Louise Upston said, the Minister did not come in and \u201Cbag\u201D the people working at the front lines, as was alleged. That\u2019s absolutely untrue. What she talked about was strengthening the culture at Work and Income offices. That has actually been well-received. She was asked what feedback she\u2019d got from Work and Income offices as well, and it was positive. It\u2019s about supporting those at the front line to ensure that the people who are coming to Work and Income receive their full entitlement, that they have a friendlier and more positive experience, that it\u2019s not a top-down, punitive approach that the previous Government actually championed. It\u2019s not about blaming those at the front line; it\u2019s about ensuring that those at the top make it OK for those at the front line to treat people well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI would go into social investment, and the fact that the focus the previous Government had was on treating people like commodities and ensuring that they weren\u2019t a fiscal liability to the State, not about what this Government is focusing on: social well-being. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022610532c32448445d96745811bb275c8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022610532c32448445d96745811bb275c8e\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. Thank you very much. I rise to take a call on the Estimates in the social services area. As the Minister for Children, can I first acknowledge the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee. I want to thank the chair very much. I had to seek permission to do something that hadn\u2019t been done before, and that was to bring in a whiteboard to the select committee. I\u2019ve been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224292da34a9f9451a86f4dbe0d767c0f2\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: High tech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223174541958b042c2940e42559f4d766b\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014sitting on select committees for six years. I love whiteboards. Mr Twyford has just shouted something along those lines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de811faaeeca459f825c4f2cf289021d\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: High tech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cd82011fd0c4121a645550e97f241de\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: High tech\u2014there you go. But what it is is a method to communicate, and the intent was to give as much detail as I could to the select committee around the background to the Budget. So I drew what I have drawn all over the country, whether it be for social workers on the front line of Oranga Tamariki, whether it be for the NGOs, whether it be for the VOYCE - Whakarongo Mai youth panel\u2014I drew the pictures that show why we are investing where we are investing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI want to be clear that nothing about the direction of Oranga Tamariki has changed, actually, from the previous Government to this Government, and that is because we don\u2019t play politics with children. That is because this House\u2014and I want to acknowledge again the members of the select committee\u2014doesn\u2019t play politics with children. So this was about the children that needed us the most. I want to thank very much the members of the select committee for giving me that leeway and giving me that opportunity to draw you the diagram of why we are funding what we are\u2014$52 million in this year of new funding; $72 million each year for the next three years\u2014into what are the operational matters that Oranga Tamariki must put into place for the children that we all need to care about the most: children who have families that cannot look after them for a variety of reasons, without judgment. For a variety of reasons, these children and these families need us to make this investment so that we can break the cycle of what has been youth justice in this country, to break the cycle of what has been the care experience in this country for these children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI want to particularly acknowledge the Hon Alfred Ngaro for his intelligent yet critical questioning at the select committee. That is absolutely correct\u2014the Hon Alfred Ngaro quite rightly questioned the Estimates, and that is what the select committee is for. So I want to thank him for his respectful yet insightful and querying questions. It was disappointing that at that select committee there were questions asked by members of the select committee around visitation, for example, that may or may not have happened for a child that they were concerned about in their area. Yet after the select committee process, when my department contacted them, they would not give us the details to be able to follow up on that child. That was not the Hon Alfred Ngaro, so I want to just say that that was a disappointment, after we\u2019d had such a collegial and appropriate interaction at the select committee. I believe that everybody in this House wants to make sure that children who are in need get the services that they need, and get the care that they need from Oranga Tamariki, and from us as a country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to close with, though, is I want to acknowledge inside this Budget the, I think, $104.9 million per year that was a commitment by the previous Government that is in the Budget of this Government for the unsupported children and orphans clothing allowance parity with foster carers. Can I thank the whole of the House. It was unanimously supported as a member\u2019s bill, I think, in my first term\u2014so two Parliaments ago\u2014but it takes some time to find $104.9 million. So can I just acknowledge at this opportunity, this contribution around these Estimates, the previous Government. Can I acknowledge the current Government, and the fact that it\u2019s been delivered today for these children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI spent Friday morning with the care-experienced young people from VOYCE \u2013 Whakarongo Mai who were talking specifically about this money. I have been in touch with, and the Hon Alfred Ngaro and the Hon Paula Bennett were also with me, at a Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Trust event. This will make a difference in the lives of children. This money is inside these Estimates. We have done well here, across this House. I thank you all for the unanimous support that you have given to these children. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u002230861701482748fe835edb35de0a6e76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230861701482748fe835edb35de0a6e76\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana e Maine Vaa Tuatua. And thank you very much for the opportunity to speak. Can I just acknowledge the Hon Tracey Martin for her contribution and the speech that she\u2019s made. I hope that other members across the Chamber will do likewise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EBut in all seriousness, it is an acknowledgment of the work because at the end of the day it\u2019s that commitment collectively together that we\u2019ve made. I want to thank you, the honourable Minister, because she didn\u2019t need to but she did, with both the Hon Paula Bennett and myself being there and that opportunity for the Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Trust. The moment was actually the smile on Di Vivian\u2019s face, when she, on behalf of all grandparents raising grandchildren and other kin carers, could know that actually now in perpetuity there would be this fund and this support that would allow them to have the equity of allowances round the clothing allowance. I do want to acknowledge the Hon Tracey Martin, because you actually put this through in your first term, and you persisted with it to see that through. I do remember you one day saying to me, in one Budget you said, \u201CAlfred, I can\u2019t see it. Go and find it.\u201D, so we did, and eventually found it. But I just want to acknowledge the work that had been done through that as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI do acknowledge that it\u2019s a tough role to take on, because it is the care and responsibility of all the children that are placed in your responsibility. We know that, because you\u2019ve got a ministry that then is in charge of that, sometimes things don\u2019t always go right. Part of the role that you\u2019re taking is to try and put those things right. So we know that when we are challenging and when we are holding to account, it\u2019s not only your leadership; but it\u2019s making sure the system operates in a way that does make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d46b4b250b94e1dad4af9f036016b4c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can I just ask the member, please\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f91ad8059b464dbdb93b2debcfaf4757\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8a5124830164ccf821bd3a5b1df37e9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270d8809a1e4b4299a3acf84458fe2b81\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: So I want to acknowledge that. So in saying that, here are the things that I think that are really important to hold to account in regards to this. So I know that in the briefing to the incoming Minister (BIM)\u2014and I know the Minister had read it\u2014on page 8 of the BIM what it did talk about was one of the upcoming decisions that the Minister had to make, and this is in regards to residential settings. What it said was by February 2018 there\u2019s a recommendation to ensure that the residential settings\u2014the community-based residential options and community-based options for remand\u2014be considered inside of that. I bring that to the Minister and to this Chamber because when we then now go to the Budget around the allocation of resource and funds\u2014and I do want to point out that I know that, for instance, in the Estimates hearings we did talk about Stand Children\u2019s Services, the children\u2019s camp, both in \u014Ctaki and Roxburgh. I know there\u2019s a bigger picture, because we\u2019re talking about the operating budget of $5 million. There was a shortfall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EBut I do have to say this, because they did come to us; we did not seek them and it is our responsibility to take on their advocacy. So we had Stand Children\u2019s Services and we had mayors from the local communities come to see us to ensure that we would advocate on their behalf. Even though I know that in the Estimates hearing the Minister did say\u2014and it was advice from the ministry, and we want to hold them to account\u2014that, actually, the appropriate services would be there to support them; however, the communities themselves actually said that that support would not be there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThey had community meetings, they had protests, they had mayors, they even had the New Zealand Public Service Association coming out in support of them to say, \u201CActually, we know that won\u2019t work.\u201D I think one of the challenges that the Minister will find\u2014and we will hold to account the ministry and the Minister\u2014is that with all the good intentions, if a community at large and as a whole are saying \u201CActually, we know this won\u2019t work.\u201D, I think one of the challenges is to see actually what will become of the decision that\u2019s been made. So the decision\u2019s been made not to support Stand Children\u2019s Services in Roxburgh. I do hope that those support services will be there. I know that for all of us the threshold of one child not receiving the support of trauma care\u2014and that\u2019s what the Stand Children\u2019s Services children\u2019s camp are now; they provide specialist trauma care and counselling for those that are most in need, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe allocation of the Budget\u2014the total Vote is $951 million. The part that I want to also refer to is the $260 million that\u2019s allocated for early and intensive intervention services for children and young people who exhibit needs that require statutory intervention. In this case, I think that what actually did happen\u2014and as the Minister said, inside the select committee room, and, again, as I\u2019ve said to the Minister\u2014was this was the community coming to us, saying to us that the advertising, and I know it\u2019s been done before on TradeMe of a young M\u0101ori girl, in that case a tamariki, the issue of concern from the community was the disclosure of the iwi affiliations. And then the lack of care to make sure that there was consultation and engagement with those. So it was the concern from the community that, again, the system had not responded. In fact, the only reason they came to me was because they had approached Oranga Tamariki\u2014Ministry for Children and their concerns were not listened to. The responses that came back, I think, were of concern because they had said, \u201CEverything\u2019s OK. There\u2019s no concerns. We\u2019ve done this before. It\u2019s not a problem.\u201D And yet what actually was highlighted in the Social Services Committee was actually that\u2019s not the case. In fact, it hadn\u2019t been done before in regards to the disclosure, the full disclosure, of iwi connections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EWhat also was not followed through, and yet was given as a reason, as acknowledgment, that they\u2019d been engaging\u2014in fact, if one reads through the Estimates report, entitled in the report in the chapter on page 304 was \u201CWorking with iwi to create better outcomes.\u201D, and yet that\u2019s not the case. That wasn\u2019t the reality. Again, I would say to the Minister and to the ministry: this is where a ministry needs to be held to account. When a community comes forward and says that it actually, first of all, went to the ministry, did not have a response, and hence the reason they came to seek extra advocacy in the roles that they were asking for. So I want to again say that on this, it is a concern that in regards to the allocation of the Budget I hope that it\u2019s allocated in the appropriate ways, because the allocation of that budget of $260 million is around intensive care support, and is around the support services that would ensure that family and wh\u0101nau and ainga would have the support that was wrapped round them. I think what was really clear from the community was that was not the case. So again the reason why I highlight this in this Estimates hearing is because again it shows that the system itself did not work. If the system is not working, then I think it\u2019s a real concern for us to ensure that that will continue as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to highlight also too on page 303 where the Minister\u2014and yes, I\u2019d never seen this before; the old whiteboard coming out. Facilitators like us who\u2019ve been round for a while love whiteboards. They get out there, they draw pictures, and they give an analogy so they can be able to break down the presentation if it\u2019s complex. I want to acknowledge the Minister for doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe part, though, that I became concerned about was, and it\u2019s highlighted here, in regards to developing performance measures. In this, where the Minister was highlighting the appropriation, where now they were talking about the early intensive intervention and the allocation of that, but what concerned me is that there were 15 measures that were talked about but only five of them actually had\u2014and I\u2019ll read from here: \u201CThe statutory intervention transition output did not state a numerical value or target or what should be achieved.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI thought that was a concern for those of us, because, I suppose, like any target, the reason it\u2019s called a target is that you\u2019ve got to have something to aim for. It can\u2019t be fluffy, it can\u2019t be woolly, and it can\u2019t just say that we\u2019re just going to make people feel good. Actually, part of setting a target and a measure is to know whether you\u2019ve achieved that goal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESo it was a concern to us on this side where the fact is that, again, out of the 15 measures that have been stated in regards to statutory intervention and transition, only five of the 15 actually had set targets and valuations. And I know that the Minister actually said here as part of the process that \u201CWe didn\u2019t want just another tick-box exercise.\u201D Well, those of us on this side will agree with that. As has been said previously in previous speeches, the social investment approach was not about a fluffy, woolly, \u201CLet\u2019s try and see if we can make a difference.\u201D approach. Actually, let\u2019s be held accountable\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b409719d24d4a1c8abf0a1842d7a38b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: A tick-box exercise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022800daa6415ac40ff8fc3e302c69d2b5e\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014with the system is in place to make sure\u2014tick-box exercise. That\u2019s right. Box-ticking exercises\u2014gets a little bit confusing! I think we know what we\u2019re trying to say, which is that the fact is we want to be able to have a measure that we can hold ourselves accountable to. So what I\u2019m saying in this is that it is a concern on this side that the ministry and the Minister actually still have not put this in place. They said it\u2019s going to happen, and, again, what did we have as a response? \u201COh, there\u2019s another inquiry that\u2019s coming along, another advisory committee.\u201D The Minister\u2019s looking aghast there. We just hope on this side that we\u2019ll get past the advisory, past their inquiry, and get to a point where we can actually measure this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c152ea0c37ac4dc193e073b4e39a7dde\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s no inquiry into Oranga Tamariki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deb78053efa54daa97a9459b719a02ad\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, it\u2019s actually on here. It\u2019s on the report that the Minister was talking about how there\u2019s an advisory committee that they\u2019re putting together\u2014here it is, it\u2019s in paragraph 4: \u201CWe also heard that the ministry is working to decide on the right outcomes to measure performance \u2026 We heard that a recent expert advisory panel \u2026 had indicated that previous measures had driven activity and \u2018box-ticking\u2019 [exercises]\u201D. I\u2019m pretty sure I heard the Minister talking about another panel, OK? We just want to get on and do the work. I commend this speech to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5b059b433634aa0b7b4ffedd30f9180\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5b059b433634aa0b7b4ffedd30f9180\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Can I just start by acknowledging the Social Services and Community Committee for the work that they have done and continue to do. Can I also acknowledge the public servants for the huge amount of work that we have tasked them with over the last nine months that we\u2019ve been in Government. We have big expectations of ourselves, and we have big plans for this country, and we are reliant on the work of the public servants; so can I acknowledge the great work that they are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll also acknowledge Minister Tracey Martin, who spoke earlier on her portfolio as Minister for Children. She was very gracious to the previous Government, actually, and I think she will be regretting that now after the speaker who just spoke prior to me. I will, on behalf of the Minister for Children, make the point that the advisory group that was being referred to by the Hon Alfred Ngaro, and that same advisory group he was criticising the current Minister for Children for, was actually an advisory group set up under the previous Government. So I make that point on behalf of the Minister for Children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s really important that I just briefly touch on the direction of this Government and then reflect on some of the questions or comments raised by one of the previous speakers on Vote Social Development. We were very clear in the Estimates, and we\u2019ve been very clear since we\u2019ve got into Government, that we are aspirational for New Zealanders, that we are about ensuring that people are supported to reach their potential. For us, it is about ensuring that, in whatever Government agency people have an interaction with, they are treated with fairness and respect and that their dignity is upheld.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been very clear about that with the Ministry for Social Development and make no apologies for that approach. I was criticised earlier for taking that approach, and the comment that was made was that I was undermining public servants who are out there on the front line. Well, in fact, I\u2019m not doing that at all, and I have already visited, I think, 20 Work and Income New Zealand offices to make sure that we\u2019re absolutely on the right page. The vast majority of our staff do an excellent job, but we know there are one too many incidences in the media where people have experienced something that is not a positive experience in a Work and Income New Zealand office. So I\u2019m not going to apologise for committing to working alongside our staff to improve it so that every person who goes to Work and Income New Zealand offices has a positive experience, because they deserve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EOne of the previous speakers brought up the young parent payment and was saying that there was a marked increase in the number of people that were receiving that. The point has already been made to that member and to the select committee that that increase is due to a decision by the previous Government to increase the age range, which means that more people are captured and eligible for that particular payment. So that point of clarification is, I think, really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAnother point that was made was that there has been a reduction in the number of people who have had cancellations or suspensions of their benefits, and criticism of me for that. Well, actually, the reason that there has been a reduction is not because we changed the general policy about why it might be applied but because we changed the process to ensure that we had our checks and balances in place, and there had to be a person authorised to sign that off. That is actually the responsible thing to do, and seeing a reduction shows that, actually, in the past, it\u2019s probable that there were mistakes that were being made. I accept absolutely that front-line staff have a big job in front of them; so it\u2019s important that we, as decision-makers, make that as easy as possible for them by putting responsible processes in place, which is exactly what I\u2019ve done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been criticised by a previous speaker also for reducing the obligations on people who are accessing a benefit. That is not at all the case. The same obligations stand. We have an expert advisory group now that\u2019s in place to give us advice on things like excessive sanctions, income adequacy, and the way that the welfare system interacts with other Government agencies, and all of that advice will be taken on board when we receive their report in February. But I\u2019ve been very clear: the only sanction that I can speak to that this Government has already committed to getting rid of is section 70A. As for the rest, I\u2019m not pre-empting any changes in that space, and I\u2019m looking forward to the advice that we get from the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI also want to make the point that we were criticised earlier\u2014and I know the Minister of Housing and Urban Development will speak to this, but I think we were collectively criticised\u2014on the increase of the number of people who are on the social housing register. The reality is that, when we got into Government, a lot more New Zealanders that\u2019ve been doing it tough, struggling to make ends meet, struggling within the housing crisis that\u2019s been left as part of the legacy of the previous Government\u2014as soon as we got in, a large number of New Zealanders all of a sudden felt hopeful that perhaps they had a Government in place that would empathise with them and would do something about the desperate housing situations that they were in. So it\u2019s no surprise to us that housing numbers increased on the social housing register. There wasn\u2019t a housing crisis created when we got into Government; the housing crisis was created by the previous Government, and we have been left to respond to it. So I acknowledge the Minister of Housing and Urban Development, the Hon Phil Twyford, who is doing a fantastic job in that department, and I won\u2019t speak anymore to housing, because I know that he will respond to that himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very proud of some of the measures that we put in place already in these first nine months. I have to acknowledge the first 100 days and the Families Package: $5.4 billion worth of funding that went to support low and middle income New Zealand families. That money was shifted away from the planned tax cuts that the previous Government had promised. Those tax cuts were not agreed to by us, because, actually, the reality was that a large proportion of those tax cuts were actually going to the top 10 percent of income earners in New Zealand\u2014something like $400 million\u2014and, to us, that\u2019s not acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very proud of the fact that, as of 1 July, we had the winter energy payment put in place. As of 1 July, parents in this country, or people in this country who have a child, will now be eligible for the Best Start payment, and that, really, along with the extension of paid parental leave, demonstrates this Government\u2019s commitment to families, to low and middle income New Zealanders, and to those first thousand days for children, which we\u2019ve all been told about in this House. All of us have had the evidence put in front of us that shows very clearly how important the first thousand days are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m very proud of the Families Package, proud of the fact that something like an additional 29,000 families will now be eligible for Working for Families, and that that will only continue to grow. Very proud of the fact that even though it\u2019s just a start, because we as a Government know that there\u2019s still much more to do, because of our Families Package 64,000 children will be lifted out of poverty, and that really demonstrates the commitment that we have on this side of the House to addressing child poverty, an issue that almost all New Zealanders take seriously and, unfortunately, was largely ignored under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very proud of the fact that, as a Government, we made the commitment to put $76 million towards family violence services, the first time that many of these services at the front line, if not all of them, have received additional funding for a decade. They have been working on the smell of an oily rag with some of the most vulnerable families in an area that has got increasingly challenging, and all of a sudden I feel very proud that we can be part of a Government that shows we\u2019re committed to addressing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI think that all of the Ministers on this side of the House and all of the members on this side of the House in Government would acknowledge, though, that there is much more to do, and we are committed to doing it. That\u2019s why we have made sure that we have Jan Logie in the parliamentary under-secretary role to be that person that pulls it together, given that that particular issue spans over so many portfolios and is incredibly complex.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI think I\u2019ve covered off most of the main issues raised by the previous speaker, and all I want to say is that there is much more to do. This Government is committed to addressing child poverty, and we are committed to ensuring that we support New Zealanders into meaningful and sustainable employment. As the Prime Minister has said, we will support all who are able to be earning, learning, caring, or volunteering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00224faf23a99ec9404eb17ce551dc9cf7f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224faf23a99ec9404eb17ce551dc9cf7f0\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair\u2014finally. I feel like I\u2019ve been jumping up ever since this debate began. I\u2019d like to greet you: kia orana e Maine Vaa Tuatua. Hopefully, the pronunciation was acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI would like to take the opportunity to speak briefly on the vote for the social development and housing sector, and some members in this committee would actually wonder why I am standing up to talk, because I don\u2019t normally belong to the Social Services and Community Committee. However, it is in the Vote Arts, Culture and Heritage appropriation where broadcasting was classified, and because I belong to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation (EDSI) Committee and considering the fact that broadcasting has had a lot of interest, we were expecting the Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media to turn up. Indeed, she did, but she refused to discuss broadcasting because it was given to the Social Services and Community Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ESo I was astonished that the Hon Clare Curran would not discuss it. I know that there are some members in this House who belong to the EDSI select committee who actually, previously, when Radio New Zealand turned up, the Minister\u2014we would have an opportunity to ask the Minister about the Estimates and the delivery that she has not done properly. Anyway\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e81ed1b65c3245a094d461f60747b3b5\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: But it\u2019s the wrong estimate, so why would one turn up anyway? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225afd33b6f2de4f24a990bba7c7c44210\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: That Minister is asking if it was the wrong Estimates. Well, I was actually in the EDSI select committee when that Minister turned up and was asked the questions about the ethnic communities, and she couldn\u2019t answer that, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAnyway, I digress. This is actually about the arts, culture, and heritage appropriation, which belongs to this Estimates debate. It is actually about broadcasting, and I\u2019ll get to it. The Minister, in her shining, brand new ministerial role, actually promised so much. It was in the Labour Party election manifesto that they would deliver $152 million\u2014that is actually $38 million a year for the next four years. And\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022700d523ad26f48dea1656a348bafdc65\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Wrong Estimates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd948f2558dc467ab91023de470c93f8\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I keep getting an interjection from that side suggesting that this is the wrong Estimates. It is actually Vote Arts, Culture and Heritage, which I can speak to in this Estimates debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e052ea54a88b4262aa089472bf45c9cc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: To answer your point of order, we are just double-checking that you are in the right Estimates\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e642aa4647a4705af4bab46db0533ee\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: That is the whole point, Tracey. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f31ecf580c5143d09699716d76e70ea2\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s no broadcasting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285c73627e01c4a628f907515553e4589\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! If you are speaking to arts, culture, and heritage, then you are in the right Estimates. We\u2019re just double-checking that the Estimates regarding broadcasting come within that Vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a441093b6814b32bda347ecb1ea8b40\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: It does, and that is the whole point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2e4c05df01649f4b0e23458f5ed3fda\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Carry on. Carry on until otherwise notified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cca32bdc34b4752be07bd02cc1ba015\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. Where was I\u2014the $152 million that this Minister promised to deliver, but failed to, because she literally only delivered less than 10 percent. It was $15 million. She actually took to Cabinet $152 million. She wanted $152 million for the broadcasting sector, but she delivered only $15 million, and she established a bureaucracy, a ministerial advisory board, to dish out, or, actually, to decide if we needed a public media funding commission\u2014another level of bureaucracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe ministerial advisory board is actually costing taxpayers $1.5 million, and they have decided for the Minister where the money is going to go: $4.5 million to Radio New Zealand, $4 million to New Zealand On Air, $6 million between Radio New Zealand and New Zealand On Air, and $500,000 for the Ministry for Culture and Heritage. But the thing is that the Minister wanted RNZ\u002B. She wanted Radio New Zealand to have a brand new TV channel\u2014a complete TV channel\u2014and she thought she could do it for $4.5 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThat is just ridiculous. It just shows how completely out of touch she is with her portfolio and that she has no concept of what broadcasting is actually about. She is absolutely, ridiculously out of her depth to think that she can actually produce a brand new television channel with that kind of budget. There is no way RNZ\u002B will ever come to fruition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228d6fcf290d4a4d25a58761ff88e83104\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d6fcf290d4a4d25a58761ff88e83104\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Chair. I was tempted to stand up and talk about horse racing because I do like a punt, but I realise it\u2019s not actually part of these appropriations. So I will come back, if I may, to just talk about how much I really enjoyed being part of the appropriations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThis is the time when we do actually get to examine and see our own Ministers and our own ideas and strategies examined, and many in the Opposition put them through their paces. The Hon Alfred Ngaro has already been praised tonight, on a day when I understand he became the first speaker to do the prayer in a foreign language, or in a non-English language. That should be congratulated. It\u2019s a shame that that goodwill didn\u2019t continue to his own presentation, because what I can actually say to Mr Ngaro is that he pointed out something quite important that has come out of this: the difference between counting every little bit and piece and thinking, \u201CWe\u2019ll get to where we want to go.\u201D versus what we saw in this appropriation, which was a fine example of what vision and aspiration actually mean. And, in that, I refer to KiwiBuild.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ENow, I come from a profession where we don\u2019t get excited about things. I used to train detectives, and we always taught them the \u201CABC\u201D: accept nothing, believe no one, and corroborate everything. So, when the whole KiwiBuild concept came to reality, I sat and watched and wanted to make sure\u2014and I heard some of the criticisms\u2014and I nodded my head and wanted to see how it was going to work, but, after this appropriation, and after some personal experience I\u2019ve had, for those in the Opposition who are sort of betting their future on KiwiBuild failing, I would say, \u201CFind another target.\u201D because I have become a firm believer that KiwiBuild not only can work, KiwiBuild will work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI would say, for those members of the Opposition, if they, like me, spend a lot of time out in their electorates, they will no doubt be meeting people like I did last Sunday, up in the Johnsonville market. I met a couple up there earning $220,000 between them; they\u2019re not eligible for KiwiBuild, because they are over the limit. However, with $100,000 in the bank and earning that, they can\u2019t find a house. They\u2019re in the market around that $700,000 to $800,000 mark and they cannot find a house. They\u2019re realising they have to go so much further. And this is a couple that earn a lot of money, they\u2019re comfortable; they\u2019re not going to be eligible. Again, I look at the Opposition; you must be meeting those people. Those who are earning less, those who are earning below $180,000, have very little hope, unless they are living in an area of New Zealand where housing is cheap, of ever owning their own home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ENow, just this weekend, we heard the Leader of the Opposition talk about how they, basically, were very keen on, I think it was, out-compassioning this Government. Well, a good way, if they really want to show some compassion, is to actually look at the compassion that is going to be required, the strategy and the goodwill that is going to be required, to ensure that the next generation of New Zealanders can get on the housing tree. And this can happen. I, again, had the experience of getting the head of KiwiBuild into my electorate and putting him in front of a good old-fashioned group of cynical developers, who came in with the old arms folded and \u201CYeah, you tell us about this.\u201D They\u2019d seen the media. They\u2019d seen the Opposition. They\u2019d seen the negativity. And I have to say, I\u2019m a great believer in putting people that know what they\u2019re doing in front of people that know what they\u2019re talking about. I felt privileged to be on the sideline watching this. And I saw the light come on. I saw them start to understand, \u201CYeah, this can work. Yeah, this is going to work.\u201D And I saw them leave there\u2014and I\u2019ve had phone calls since\u2014and want to be part of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo KiwiBuild is, again\u2014forget about what we inherited, forget what anyone\u2019s done in the past. The reality of it now is that, fortunately, even the Opposition have acknowledged that we do have a housing crisis. It is something that we have to fix. If we\u2019re going to be compassionate about this generation and the next generation of young people, we have to do something about it. And KiwiBuild can do that, and I would invite the Opposition to be part of that. And if those who believe that this KiwiBuild\u2014and I congratulate the Minister on the different options that KiwiBuild has put together around underwrite, because, I\u2019ll just sum up by saying this, the problems that the Opposition\u2019s developers, our developers have\u2014those problems; whether they be problems with shortage of tradespeople, shortage of land, whether it be planning problems, whether it be RMA, these things, all of a sudden, have become all of our problems, because, unless we can fix them, unless they are fixed, we are consigning the next generation to houselessness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00223308813f5b634af88be23132aa48b4e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223308813f5b634af88be23132aa48b4e5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E I want to speak to Vote Social Housing and make some comments about housing policy. First, I want to thank the Social Services and Community Committee, under the able chairmanship of Gareth Hughes, for the excellent work that the committee did during Estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EOur strong sense is that the New Zealand public want the Government to fix the housing crisis. They want us to get on with it and build houses. This is our first Budget. It is the largest investment in housebuilding ever in New Zealand history. It\u2019s a foundational Budget. It\u2019s our first step in building our way out of the national housing crisis. We have a plan to tackle the national housing crisis right across the continuum of housing need. And I want to talk about that plan. We\u2019re working hard to end homelessness and increase public housing. The other theme that came out of the Estimates hearings in Vote Social Housing was that this Government is finally funding programmes that the previous Government talked about but never actually put up the money to properly fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ENow, the centrepiece of this Budget\u2019s housing policy is that we are building a net additional 6,400 public houses over the next four years\u2014a net additional 6,400. Now, I want you to contrast that funded commitment\u2014a net additional 6,400 State- and community-provided homes\u2014with the record of the former Government, who reduced the number of State houses over nine years in office\u2014a net reduction of 6,000 houses, and if you take into account community homes, a net reduction of 1,500 public houses over nine years, in the middle of a housing crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ENow, we heard a lot from the members opposite about how they were going to build all these extra houses. The fourth-term National Government would have been an amazing thing to see, because they were going to do all of these things. They promised the world after nine years in office, when they reduced the amount of public housing\u2014they reduced the amount of public housing. Apparently, in the fourth term, they were going to reverse all that and build thousands of extra houses. Well, it took a change of Government to get a Government that actually put the money up to fund these promises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis Government is investing $4 billion\u2014$4 billion\u2014to increase the number of State houses by 6,400 and upgrade and improve the existing housing stock. We are also upgrading, through regulation, every rental property in this country, by passing the Healthy Homes Guarantee Act and setting decent insulation standards\u2014not the half-baked ones that the previous Government did but proper insulation standards\u2014plus a requirement for a fixed-model, affordable heating source, and also standards on draught-stopping, drainage, and weathertightness. These are real healthy home standards that have been passed into law, and Housing New Zealand is now spending about $100 million improving every one of its properties, including putting a heat pump in all of them. So that is the difference. That is a serious commitment to healthy homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe Estimates hearing also focused quite a lot on tenancy management issues for Housing New Zealand, and that\u2019s an area where we\u2019ve seen a whole different approach from this Government\u2014a more compassionate and tenant-centred approach. Over the last nine years, Housing New Zealand\u2014our public housing organisation\u2014was stripped of its social mandate systematically by the former Government. When I became the housing Minister, I met Housing New Zealand staff that told me they were doing pastoral care work with tenants on the weekend because they had been told that it wasn\u2019t their job to do it. Now, under our Government, it is the job of Housing New Zealand tenancy managers to do that pastoral care work. We have brought compassion and kindness back to the administration of public housing in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe also pulled the plug on the hysteria around methamphetamine contamination in public housing that was actively stirred up by that Government. They allowed the lack of a decent scientific standard to mean that Housing New Zealand, over the last four years, wasted the best part of $100 million on decontamination work that never needed to happen. At the same time, private landlords were making insurance claims of, on average, $25 million a year for methamphetamine contamination, most of which never needed to be done, because of the total failure of political leadership under the former Government. It took us a few weeks in office to commission Sir Peter Gluckman to do that report and sweep away the moral hysteria that had been allowed to be whipped up under the former Government. That has all changed under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ENow, we know that we need to do more. We\u2019ve inherited the legacy of nine years of housing crisis that was allowed to spin out of control. That is why the housing register, the waiting list for public housing, is now bigger than it\u2019s ever been before. I found it amusing to hear the member Louise Upston, earlier in this debate, blaming a Government that\u2019s been in office for nine months for the legacy of a housing crisis that was allowed to get out of control for nine years. That shows a gall that, frankly, I find amazing\u2014and admirable, in some ways, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe register is now the highest it\u2019s been\u20148,108 in April, and the figures are going up every month. We know that the hidden homeless that were reported on by the housing stocktake that we commissioned in our first few weeks in office\u2014we know that the true scale of homelessness has been supressed for too long. We know that now there is a Government that cares, a Government that welcomes people to come forward and get the help that they need, those figures will continue to get worse before they get better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIn Budget 2018, we committed an extra $100 million over and above the baseline funding for Housing First and emergency and transitional housing\u2014an extra $100 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251edcfe18a354b51b1db26306abdb3ba\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Where is it in the Hutt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225569a83f9e1246d69f0e2942ff85094e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: We are rolling out Housing First in the Hutt, in Wellington, in Tauranga, in Hamilton, in Auckland, in Whangarei, in Napier and Hastings\u2014the world-acclaimed approach to dealing with chronic homelessness. We have also, finally, funded the commitment that the former Government made to roll out 2,200-odd emergency and transitional housing places that they promised but never funded properly. They also didn\u2019t fund the front-line staff needed to manage that programme. So we funded all of those things, and we\u2019ve, in fact, rolled out several hundred extra transitional housing places. That was our commitment to seriously tackling homelessness as part of the winter 2018 package. It\u2019s long overdue in this country that we put in place a decent safety net.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to take the remaining minute and a bit that I\u2019ve got to talk about some of the wider housing and urban development issues that this Government is tackling that really come under the building and construction part of this debate, and I want to acknowledge my colleague the Hon Jenny Salesa, who, as Minister for Building and Construction, is leading a really ambitious programme of workforce and skills development, reforming the whole product certification scheme and all of the building regulatory framework that we need to put in place to ensure that our KiwiBuild policy is successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe other big enablers of the KiwiBuild policy are tackling the systemic problems that have caused the housing crisis and the fact that we are 71,000 houses short at the moment as a result of the negligence and drift of the last nine years. We are reforming the financing of infrastructure that will allow our towns and cities to grow. We are freeing up the planning system to allow our cities to grow up and to grow out. We are putting in place an urban development authority that will lead large-scale urban development projects that will build not just housing but whole communities. These are the system-wide fixes to the housing crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00220c82a2970d1a4797bf26391e8e391940\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c82a2970d1a4797bf26391e8e391940\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the honourable member, I just want to confirm with the member who took the point of order that the speech in the debate was within the Estimates, and for the reference of the House that is page 291 of the Estimates document. Kia orana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u0022770529a825124a1c8f7a50260bbf65f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022770529a825124a1c8f7a50260bbf65f2\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call this evening on the Estimates debate for the social services and community sector. I especially want to draw attention to two important Votes in this debate: Vote Building and Housing and Vote Social Development. I certainly want to thank the Ministers who have come along to the select committee to present. I wasn\u2019t a part of that select committee at that stage\u2014I was fighting a by-election\u2014but my colleagues told me a lot about it, and they raised a lot of concerns within these two areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EFirstly, we express that this Government is not set up to deliver on the housing promises that they made to the people of New Zealand with respect to affordable housing. For example, we know that the Government promised 100,000 affordable homes across the country within 10 years. But how many of these houses have been built today? How many? We know that zero KiwiBuild homes have been built to date, and time is ticking for this Minister to demonstrate that he\u2019s more than just talk and big promises. We\u2019ve also had an admission from the Minister that it won\u2019t be possible to build these affordable homes without massive subsidies. So here we are taking money from one pocket of New Zealanders and, essentially, putting it in into the other pocket.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe896d62cd9f4b4892f6dc9c25818086\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s called a progressive taxation system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223e432c7ca2a4df38046f2775b34ff8d\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it\u2019s very inefficient, in that case. Another thing is that this Government said, in the campaign, that they were committed to training construction workers to help build these extra homes, and now the Minister in charge has admitted that they\u2019ll actually be importing these workers, because they can\u2019t recruit them from overseas. So here we have a Government that is happy to say one thing and do another, and I don\u2019t think, quite frankly, that that\u2019s what New Zealanders voted for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThen we have the Government policy that is littered with unintended consequences: changes to the Housing New Zealand evictions policy, for example, which means that Housing New Zealand can\u2019t evict people that have antisocial tendencies. Now, the Government hasn\u2019t thought through the unintended consequences of this on, for example, those that wish to buy homes right next door and maybe won\u2019t want to buy them, because they can\u2019t evict their neighbours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESecond is around the schools and how they\u2019re reacting negatively to the Government\u2019s policy changes\u2014for example, we raised concerns that there are a number of schools that have changed their zones because they want to avoid being captured by these housing developments. And those are changes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c80f62e9c55247bfba336f20dba81572\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c80f62e9c55247bfba336f20dba81572\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the member. The time has come for me to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EProgress reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201807315a94cb464b464a70bac032824483b9c1000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"