"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002266b1468cb8e94ee6a5d2306544817809\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 2 AUGUST 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022972e36e151934e08a766b7439d31ace0\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 2 AUGUST 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c51067255b2f4087a392a4da45f82184\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7c8b2da715046a1b7ad1aa1fa2e60b2\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9aacf30598040e9be1f86691f920135\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9aacf30598040e9be1f86691f920135\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week, the legislation to be considered by the House will include the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill, the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill, the Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill, the first readings of three cognate regulatory systems amendment bills, and the remaining stages of the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EOn the morning of Thursday, 9 August, there will be an extended sitting. Wednesday, 8 August will be a members\u2019 day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00221c485700220545c48d250bb8fa749799\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c485700220545c48d250bb8fa749799\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Is the extended sitting on 9 August an extension of 8 August, and if so, why does it suddenly no longer become a members\u2019 day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002262015e2bd7b44c92896eb4d6042f3a3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262015e2bd7b44c92896eb4d6042f3a3f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Because that\u2019s the way the rules of the House work. It worked several times under the previous Government, where Treaty settlement bills were considered the day after a members\u2019 day. It has happened that way ever since the extended sittings were introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b702daecbaf248b0a0f9e269c22bca1e\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8ccb7ef8b6849d28584d10f23c4190c\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022baea4b2f5cde40dcbd7a0bfa94a119f9\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Employment, GDP Growth, and Skills Shortage\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3ee9fd44a9642a3a85670e4aa046fe8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3ee9fd44a9642a3a85670e4aa046fe8\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he have confidence in the Government\u2019s management of the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022e11a896838f14bc6a09147460bf69aff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e11a896838f14bc6a09147460bf69aff\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d4f63c2c14c4cb5a6c68ae513c31ce6\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with economic commentator Bernard Hickey, who today said, \u201CThis week\u2019s news is the worst economically for the Government since its election and should force it to recalibrate its response.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022354990944f894531a92d8117d04cea20\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t agree with the characterisation by Mr Hickey, but he does make an interesting point in that article, which is that years and years of under-investment in infrastructure are causing constraints in the New Zealand economy and are reducing productivity. That happened over the last nine years. We have an ambitious programme of investment in infrastructure that will start to turn that around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227617014a64d8466d8927b92a5cc00d53\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does he take it as a signal of confidence in the Government\u2019s economic management that job growth has fallen by 60 percent since the Government took office, and in the past three months, 43 people extra have moved into unemployment every day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217c30626145b4f078e969fbef10d1187\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What I take as a measure of confidence is that yesterday\u2019s data released by Statistics New Zealand showed that 94,000 more people were employed in the June 2018 quarter than the 2017 June quarter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221a4e3955ace446587f791b73d705743\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does he take it as a signal of confidence in the Government\u2019s economic management that this week, not only has unemployment gone up but multiple construction firms have gone into receivership, and businesses\u2019 confidence in their own prospects has hit a 10-year low, falling to levels not seen since the global financial crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4397b478cc841c39326377d02743e55\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The issue of the construction industry and the vertical construction industry and the issues facing that industry are not new. Mainzeal, Hawkins, Fletcher\u2019s are all things that happened under the last Government\u2019s watch. I\u2019m actually not going to blame the last Government for that. This is an industry that does need some support. It does need some work. But for the member to conflate all of what is going wrong in the vertical construction industry with the last nine months of this Government is not right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9d75f63d72446f3bcd7ca2fbef136ba\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that just 1 percent slower GDP growth would cost the Government approximately $800 million in lost revenue every year, and Government spending would also inevitably increase as fiscal stabilisers kicked in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262c43ddde18d4f1ebc3415f146a9eae6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s a number of factors that would influence whether or not that equation worked, but what I would remind the member is that the consensus forecasts, as put through by FocusEconomics recently, all say that growth will be around 3 percent over the forecast period, and that\u2019s backed up by Treasury, the OECD, the IMF, and the Reserve Bank. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272510b41c457455a9790c9f9625d5ef1\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in light of that answer, can he tell the House whether he is intending to stick to his own fiscal responsibility rules if, in fact, GDP growth does not live up to those Treasury forecasts? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282ff0487756b4aa0ae7c0f6f90df73c0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve been very clear that our Budget responsibility rules are there for the term of this Government. We have been equally clear that if there was a significant economic shock, we would adjust those accordingly. I am interested now by the confused stance of the National Party. Apparently, they want us to spend more. They don\u2019t want the Budget responsibility rules, but we\u2019re also spending too much. They actually no longer have a fiscal stance that the public can judge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa5b40e055134356876551b9130c411a\u0022\u003EVirginia Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to address the skills shortage? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224668ec7ddc8643568b631e7916d88cfd\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We are taking a number of steps to address the skills shortage. The first of those\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c1dece3115241aab584b1d83b2b4edf\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s called a reshuffle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d398464c437438f941845cb8da6a913\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is by making sure that we\u2019ve got our first year\u2014well, no, Gerry. There\u2019s a skills shortage on your side of the House. It\u2019s very, very clear for all of us to see. We are addressing the skills shortage by having our first year free programme, which is getting many, many more people into the trades and apprenticeships, and also by making sure that we\u2019re focused around issues in the construction sector, particularly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022be7cef2d90bc4d4d8845964b3709ccf6\u0022\u003EKiwiBuild\u2014Shared Risk\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022595efc0fcc7a49a39556c652d42d8dfe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022595efc0fcc7a49a39556c652d42d8dfe\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: Does he stand by all his statements regarding the Crown\u2019s potential risk in relation to the insolvency of KiwiBuild developers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf0a3e6282284a5cbf027b78ae6887c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf0a3e6282284a5cbf027b78ae6887c8\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Associate Minister of Housing and Urban Development) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: Yes, in the context they were made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb24908857c5493c9630840f7394edf4\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: When he announced five weeks ago that 1,200 new State KiwiBuild and market houses were being built on the Housing New Zealand Northcote development, did he have confidence that the builders, Ebert Construction, would be in business five weeks later to continue working on the project? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9c45828dd654533838a65a90763cd28\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Housing and Urban Development, yes, I did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7743e2529194877af6de28f862b8760\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he still stand by his statement last week in the House in relation to KiwiBuild: \u201CIn the case of developer insolvency, the Crown \u2026 carries no risk whatsoever.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d897948a705c48d6bac03f73def44c13\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Housing and Urban Development, yes. In the Buying off the Plans initiative, the Crown underwrite is only triggered on completion. Therefore, there is no risk to the Crown in the event of a developer\u2019s insolvency. In some cases, there may be progress payments, in which case liability is limited to the progress payments made. The KiwiBuild unit advises me, however, that these contracts are rare, and they have not entered into any so far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0d0cef8776e4dbcab615ed0c2fe396a\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: When he told his Cabinet colleagues that there would be \u201Cappropriate due diligence\u201D, what was the result of the due diligence for Ebert Construction, that went into receivership this week? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022212612e0589b43e5a81b0317d4611703\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Housing and Urban Development\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6ecbfaa8d8e4f538c0abd56a0f07140\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: It was brilliant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bc815b1b2b74c6bb2bdd5847abf639f\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3a050d758b6469883d3c0378abd797a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I think the Minister can start the answer again, and can I ask, if it was Ms Collins\u2014can she finish her questions before she sits down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254a9db1fd42b4dbdbc7c3d22280653b9\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Housing and Urban Development, there was appropriate work that was done. In terms of the advice I\u2019ve got from KiwiBuild, things are done in terms of risk management on a development by development basis. Because of the inherent differences, any individual development and the prices it might seek from the Crown to underwrite is taken on a case by case basis. I can give you the advice that I\u2019ve been given, which is how the risk is managed by the KiwiBuild unit: first, an initial assessment is made; second, shortlisting, a second review of the proposal, and a workshop with the developers. The KiwiBuild unit then evaluates the amended proposals. The opportunity to clarify any issues is done, an evaluation panel, then the evaluation report, the chair prepares a final evaluation report, and then the contract is negotiated. In addition, CBRE, Colliers, and Jasmax are contracted to provide independent expert advice to the KiwiBuild unit for each development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7dcb64e0a6947949d333aa71a2f8e5f\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: If, as he said on 26 March this year, the Crown is sharing the risk with developers, then what responsibility will the Crown be taking to ensure that subcontractors and workers are paid on KiwiBuild sites when the developer goes broke, and whether or not they can even get their tools off the site?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022576b006e0f024460a5c9ceeff7224ac5\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, we have asked for advice from the ministry on how it is that subcontractors can get some of their tools back. One of the things that we have asked our ministries to do is for the ministry to reach out to the receivers and to assist our subcontractors to get their tools back. We are waiting for further advice on this. We would like our subcontractors to be paid, and the contracts are apt that were signed. All of those subcontractors that had their contracts signed before 1 July 2017 will get some payment in terms of the labour they provided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c63c5a9bdf8045109ed46e9729c7de2c\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Which of his statements is correct: the Crown will be sharing the risk with developers, as stated on 26 March, or when he told the House on Wednesday last week that the Crown will take no risk whatsoever if a developer becomes insolvent during the KiwiBuild process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227be7bba847584195805bc0d80efc77e9\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: Further to my answer earlier on about insolvency, the Crown underwrite is only triggered on completion of houses, so the risk that the Crown takes is only in the event that a developer goes insolvent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c72ba04ea7ee4cbfb9aad3e566db22e1\u0022\u003ETransport Infrastructure\u2014Fuel Taxes, Government Policy, and Land Transport Projects\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00226bd7b72d1fe04d4b97ba4d35490447cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bd7b72d1fe04d4b97ba4d35490447cc\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Do the funding allocations in the Government Policy Statement on Land Transport justify increases in fuel taxes over the next 3 years; if so, how?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f622ff3d75374360893c68ee17489444\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f622ff3d75374360893c68ee17489444\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Associate Minister of Transport)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Transport: Given that Kiwis understand that we need to deliver a modern, multimodal land transport system across the country to unlock growth and prosperity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022736f34b466c740328c50d96a4a73cd60\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: You didn\u2019t write this answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b27be5699bc540fca93a5ed26ad8e5b8\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Bishop, you might have got away with sacking one M\u0101ori; I\u2019d be very careful if I was you. We will enhance great prosperity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1ed66333977405196199f5bfcb4615a\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Are you going to allow that comment to stand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f54cabedddd43d598848fd5e8f84fe9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the answer is yes. If people choose to interject mid-answer with irrelevant interjections, then they\u2019re likely to get it back in spades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa6dc03db7dc4ac6ac98e3bd9cca7fcf\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That\u2019s not a reasonable position, at all. Firstly, we\u2019ve had one Minister stand in the House to explain that the debacle over the appointment of Pauline K\u012Bngi has not led to a sacking; it\u2019s led, apparently, to a resignation. Now we might, on this side of the House, know how a resignation like that is achieved, but it is not appropriate for a Minister of the Crown to accuse an Opposition member of sacking a Crown official.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b30d28c5f4824dd1bda4b4654516c059\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to do two things now. First of all, I\u2019m not going to take any responsibility for Mr Jones\u2019 answers\u2014I mean, I think no reasonable person would expect me to do that. The second point I\u2019d make is that, actually, the shadow Leader of the House\u2019s point of order had no merit. But, notwithstanding that, seven separate members on the Government side\u2014including Mr Lees-Galloway\u2014at least four times, interjected during the point of order, and, for that reason, there will be an additional seven supplementaries given to the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a266154c59b4a55897880387b4f532f\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he continuing with his plan to tax New Zealanders by an extra $1 billion over the next three years while at the same time, according to Civil Contractors New Zealand CEO Peter Silcock, transport infrastructure construction expenditure would be reducing over the next two to three years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b043b52b47c4ce1b33909e78fd5cf29\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Over the period at which we\u2019re going to transition this large fund, it is going to pick up the slack in terms of KiwiRail and coastal shipping, as well as enhanced road transport options. I\u2019m not surprised that that person is concerned, but I would say that as he\u2019s the CEO and the chief advocate of the roading lobby, it does not bother me one iota that he shares those anxieties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280ced0e1dc5f4d28bb5736ae48a26fe8\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Which funding allocation in the Government Policy Statement on Land Transport will be assisting with coastal shipping?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241bf9fa3d03c45929d1da5a6944fd8b9\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: There are two phases to the overarching transition. We have ticked off one phase, and a key part of that phase is the introduction of an additional 10c, largely driven by increases in petrol excise duty. In phase two, we are going to hold true to our narrative that KiwiRail, coastal shipping, and road transport represent a comprehensive response to logistics, supply chain, and transportation challenges in a growing economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e09c9e5ffa6b4a09b00e77488919b22c\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Given the primary question was asking about funding allocations in the Government policy statement, which specific funding allocation in the Government Policy Statement on Land Transport assists with coastal shipping?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e291e8e29bd14344b353a5748a664915\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Repeating the question, the member himself raised that supplementary question, and if he felt he was straying off the primary reservation, then he\u2019s only got himself to blame that he now knows about what our priority is for phase two of transport reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244981f593ef446d98287df55f118a6fa\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Civil Contractors New Zealand when they said, \u201CAny reduction in projects on the ground would come at a critical time when infrastructure work in Australia\u2019s east coast is booming, and New Zealand looked set to lose talent and capabilities across the Tasman if projects were not moved forward to bridge the lull in project work.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228218883d1a0b4a6f8833a4d6abb95056\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I think Mr Silcock, who formerly was in the orchard industry, is making an important point\u2014that the civil construction sector wants a clear line of sight. They want some confidence so that the high-quality standards of delivery from that sector can continue, unlike the construction sector. I think he should not alarm his members or himself unnecessarily. The Transport Agency and their various planners are working on a whole host of projects. We just cannot guarantee pipedreams like a four-lane highway to Whangarei that was never ever going to be funded or see the light of day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7cbcd313e0f445981ce311fde25b115\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he think taxing New Zealanders more, creating a transport construction hole, and seeing Kiwis leave for Australia is a coherent transport plan from his Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a87d4a68ffd4c4f914fcc7eb62a869b\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s very difficult to accept the view of the National Party that because of a road in Palmerston North, Kiwis from Kait\u0101ia might be going to Australia. Apart from that obvious contradiction, there will be continued investment in roads, there will be an accent on regional roads, and there will be an opportunity, over the full transition, to address the role that coastal and KiwiRail can play in delivering higher productivity, via transport, for all of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f96970c697c4bf2a6ec9678d0f67ffc\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Business Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00222e1a9c28868445c58dcfa3aa6d87f085\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e1a9c28868445c58dcfa3aa6d87f085\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: Does his description of the ANZ survey of business confidence as \u201Cjunk\u201D include the ANZ Own Activity Index, which has dropped to the lowest level since May 2009?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00222efcc82ae1ba494bb0bb561904ca4939\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222efcc82ae1ba494bb0bb561904ca4939\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Economic Development: There\u2019s a bit more to the question, but fair enough\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f7bf1f8818f44c9b44a93531aad0394\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b59ca4f5ec4f479aa2c90277121d5f99\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I think there is a little bit more to that question, but we\u2019ll\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd97cbda455a4ba1b04cbbab1c76c46d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, there\u2019s not. The member should rely on the printed copy rather than an early draft.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a0759328c99423eadba86b0fca55d90\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister for Economic Development, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220581e364d27f43689e4a7b97e38ddc9a\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: So is the fact that the ANZ Own Activity survey has dropped to plus 4 percent\u2014its lowest level since May 2009, in the midst of the global financial crisis\u2014well below the long-term average of plus 27 percent, something he should take seriously?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f454e49b740e4eebb0ba21ff1e67f013\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I take very seriously the views of the business community and work very closely with them, but I tend to share the view of the New Zealand Herald\u2019s Liam Dann, who said, \u201Cto compare confidence in the economy now and confidence in [2008-09] is ridiculous.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e42df5b4157f432796e1ba03f26d6505\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that during the term of the previous Labour-led Government, between 1999 and 2008, the ANZ Own Activity Index averaged 20 percent compared with its current level of 4 percent, which is a number that commentator Cameron Bagrie referred to as indicating the economy going into stall\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ae0d49fe28046cfac16c219d4b1ef6c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member has more than finished the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223901a5e67637481f9221691f0666f5da\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I didn\u2019t actually get to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240e77dc599694434973c130813480e8a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Well, the member put in two unnecessary additions to the question at the beginning and at the end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022828d36a3531b4469ac3b3e1c195e1c2e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, I think we\u2019ve traversed a number of times in this House the nature of the surveys\u2014in particular, that in the period of the last Labour-led Government that he refers to, in 82 of 99 months there was pessimism from the business community but growth averaged 3.2 percent over that period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b58733dcac2497b932a517fc2a90fd2\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: When he told the House that the ANZ business survey, which he described as \u201Cjunk\u201D, is a \u201Csurvey of the emotion of CEOs\u201D, does he think the New Zealand CEOs are being too emotional when they worry about the costs being added to their businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ef7fe992180478a83522ea211c5975b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, it is indeed a survey of business sentiment. There are a lot of other indicators about the health of the economy\u2014for instance, consumer confidence, which is doing well; employee confidence, which is doing well; people being added to the labour market, which is doing well; and overall growth and employment. CEOs will concern themselves with the prospects of their own firm, which is absolutely right, and this Government will continue to work with all in the business community to ensure that those firms grow sustainably.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa89a23ff9794a88b21bbc9abebe9eb4\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: How does he think the typical business owner and employer\u2014who is worried about potential effects of the industrial relations changes, costs being added to her business, uncertainty around immigration and tax policies\u2014would respond if he told her directly that her opinions were junk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220713ff5c1cc348308c1815aa9477f316\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, I do not believe their opinions are junk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9bc7b0a90914d2497ec9a2e5432edde\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Regarding the ANZ\u2019s commentary \u201Cwith [the] businesses in a funk, it\u2019s fair to say that the road ahead is looking less assured, and risks of a stall have increased\u201D, has he considered the possibility that any of his Government policies may be harming the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022747d0e2a46a848c5b0539ba82dd3583e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Before the member answers the question, and just to get it absolutely straight with the member, he will ask the question part of that again\u2014I\u2019m not going to make him count it twice\u2014without the addendum that prefaced it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3af9540f7b64f1e92f344fe6c9c696a\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Well, I\u2019m just struggling to understand at all. I\u2019m putting out a quote from somebody and asking him to respond to that quote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226419030febb04c27b9bda6a181afb3ba\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No you weren\u2019t. That\u2019s not what you did at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d31916f22b9425fb0c0a803a842b47e\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Well, all right. OK\u2014well, I\u2019ll keep it simple, then. Has he considered the possibility that any of his Government\u2019s policies may be harming the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298af3bc080c94358ae2480e58282abb8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. That\u2019s a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9c44862f9254444bdf8dc4d24330a9e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We look very close at the all of the impacts of our policies on not only the business community but also employees, the social sector, and those in unpaid work. The conclusion that we\u2019ve come to is that after nine years of neglect and under-investment from the other side, our policies are going to lead to an economy that is more robust, more sustainable, more productive, and more inclusive. We\u2019re not going to be able to do it all in nine months, but we will be able to make up for a lot of the damage in this first term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cdf23306c87e461ebaac425381919003\u0022\u003EHousing\u2014Urban Growth Agenda\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u002223aec08aecf74f5a97c959853eb2bc23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223aec08aecf74f5a97c959853eb2bc23\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: How will the Government\u2019s Urban Growth Agenda enable the construction of affordable homes for young families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00225007c39f3d37473e91638276f9985617\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225007c39f3d37473e91638276f9985617\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: On behalf of the Minister, yesterday, at the Environmental Defence Society, I announced the Urban Growth Agenda, an ambitious and far-reaching programme to address the fundamentals of land supply, development capacity, and infrastructure provision so that the market can build more homes for young families. The Urban Growth Agenda joins KiwiBuild\u2014the 6,400 more State and public houses\u2014in making life better for renters and tackling property speculation as part of our comprehensive plan to tackle the housing crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022274fe8fbcbd84af69e286eef9fcef913\u0022\u003ERaymond Huo\u003C/span\u003E: How will the planning initiatives in the Urban Growth Agenda reduce the cost of new homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256ca0db78fde48c08ab0bfbea56bec5a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Two drivers of house prices are high land prices and the cost of building infrastructure in both greenfield and brownfield developments. The Urban Growth Agenda will reform our planning system and allow cities to make room for growth, support quality built environment, and enable integrated transport, housing, and commercial planning so that urban land prices reduce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ab37640c5ad419da70dcb8d9ca07bd9\u0022\u003ERaymond Huo\u003C/span\u003E: How will infrastructure-financing initiatives working alongside the Urban Growth Agenda reduce the cost of new homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227721243759e54cecbb56cc0a55a23419\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We are also working on a broad range of infrastructure-financing mechanisms so that long-term debt financing is available to developers willing to build trunk infrastructure financed over a longer term, rather than in the upfront purchase price. This will mean it will be more affordable to build and buy new homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002293237b9d7b6241e4a9cc03059437cfab\u0022\u003EPrimary Sector\u2014Government Policies\u0027 Effect on Rural Communities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5f6a498752f42b5af6d38f1b42b61c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5f6a498752f42b5af6d38f1b42b61c7\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: Does he stand by all his policies and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022817bcdc19df34fdfbce8458ee2e274ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022817bcdc19df34fdfbce8458ee2e274ec\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and I stand by the specific actions that include working with industry to try and eradicate Mycoplasma bovis, fixing the National Animal Identification and Tracing system, releasing the rabbit calicivirus disease virus in March to control wild rabbits, introducing a m\u0101nuka honey export standard, conducting a review of the dairy industry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caef309a62a7461386d36947d05ceab4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e9c8fa20e234537881566ecd37c7253\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve so much more here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246a2f0f4d9874090980f1df658d30a73\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand what the member\u2019s trying to do, and he\u2019s done enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022431b4f30d06148a89adf7de5c4b38c3a\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Which of his policies have helped lead to a fivefold increase in farmer pessimism in the last 12 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c94cedd378a4d478d6cd6edf8f43e51\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m aware of a survey done by Federated Farmers\u2014an organisation that, perhaps, at times, has come up with such outcomes\u2014but I have to say that while they may maintain that just less than half were pessimistic, more than half were optimistic, and about 30 percent of those anticipated an increase in profitability on their farms. Good luck to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226795852513ef4960af3ea7a7c0db2b79\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has he received from his $500,000-a-year Primary Sector Council about Government policies impacting negatively on the primary sector and the overall confidence in the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dba2f64c6d694ecf9f30d6f8452fea87\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I have to say that the Primary Sector Council has met twice and is due to meet again. They have identified a few challenges for us going ahead. One was a lack of vision\u2014after nine years of National Government, there is no vision. The second thing is they said that the research and science area for primary sectors is pretty muddled, if not chaotic, and we need to sort that out after nine years of National Government. They\u2019ve identified a skills shortage and a capability shortage, because there has been no focus on that for the last nine years under a National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa60f3e834f843769af696165b64e877\u0022\u003EMatt King\u003C/span\u003E: If rural proofing is merely a guidance tool for Government agencies rather than mandatory, what incentive is there for them to apply it to their policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba582d74e56e41ed88b27f9966827cfe\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Just one example of rural proofing\u2014that is a policy designed to advise policy makers in Wellington to consider the effects in rural areas. One such example of the stupidity under the previous National Government was that those people going for licences had to be tested at a traffic light. There are a huge number of rural communities that\u2014thank God\u2014don\u2019t have a traffic light, but that Government said that before you could get a licence, you had to be tested at a traffic light. That\u2019s what rural proofing will do: ensure sensible policies for rural communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200a0e7e685604d9e856067f587596674\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: When he said rural proofing would go through a rural lens and ensure all Government policy makers would focus on easing the cost of compliance, why has this not allayed farmers\u2019 fears of more red tape and anti-farming policies from this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dea14a8c73884dc2896c0b37432f8aee\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: There are no anti-farming policies. There are additional costs because the farming sector realised that expectations from our customers and consumers around the world demand the best in terms of environmental management, the best in terms of animal welfare, and the best in terms of labour requirements\u2014provisions and guarantees that the previous Government couldn\u2019t give. We will be in a position to give those assurances across the board so that we can sell our products for better returns and better profits for the farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211509bd5d3484c3fa343e8b115cbfd05\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: Since mid-June 2018, have any Cabinet papers included rural-proofing aspects on any Government policies, and what were those policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f5de7bc0e8b451f8ea3421df351b8be\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministry for Primary Industries is leading the process of rural proofing and providing advice across all Government agencies. Our Government has gone through a proper process of ensuring that, firstly, there\u2019s Cabinet endorsement, and then there\u2019s a wide level of awareness of this. The rural lens that we will put over that will be utilising both eyes, not having one eye closed like the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d9b8634de8924eb690557792f4d678d1\u0022\u003EElectoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill\u2014Advice and Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002252e1e30b04a54b11b9d6031113e974c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252e1e30b04a54b11b9d6031113e974c1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does he agree with the statement yesterday by Dr Bryce Edwards of Victoria University that the waka-jumping bill itself is bad enough for democracy but the process surrounding the bill has also been a blow against democracy, and it makes the \u201Clegislation process look like a turning point in the health of this Government\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b2d3ab3ebb14ed4ba463125b0bc4369\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will allow the member to answer the question even though the member corrected Dr Edwards\u2019 grammar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002294b9e1fcfcdb40eba1402eb1d68f4076\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294b9e1fcfcdb40eba1402eb1d68f4076\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecb35afa24df4341a5aeb3089a432183\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen the Cabinet Office advice specifically on his electoral integrity bill that Mr Edwards refers to that contradicts the Green Party\u2019s public statements that the party has to vote for the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206b3c46d67584946a6a346b8a9ef84a7\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022386108a9b8b74188921d5c356570bb76\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister summarise the advice that the Cabinet Office gave with respect to the electoral integrity bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d839bffa4f7f4ee6b5afa522bc32a57a\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014at odds with Dr Edwards\u2019 description of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299e7d9ef7d8f46dfa5c9686b0ed10409\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister make public the advice from the Cabinet Office with respect to the electoral integrity bill prior to the bill being further debated in the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de44a2eef21c4919be3a02aa2a591120\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244bb58b7ad5d49afb52cf741d5233ec0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How is hiding this crucial advice from the Cabinet Office consistent with this Government\u2019s commitment to be the most open and transparent Government ever?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022737b6a55a91b4accae9c8c2ca60d3f59\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: As I understand it, informal advice sought by the Green Party from the Cabinet Office that was couched in very kind of tendentious terms is a matter for the Green Party to release, not me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227035935b72b448b88194742f9deb747d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Will he ensure Parliament has access to the advice by officials on the electoral integrity bill\u2019s compliance with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act prior to further debate in the House, given that it was, very unusually, not made available to the select committee or the public?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215f6b7e7ee5d4147b38beb0adc3c7637\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t agree with every proposition in that question, except to say that the Attorney-General has supplied his certificate to the House that the bill is not inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226feb33b3801d47dcaa5b972ea1c51973\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government consider adopting the many amendments that were suggested by the Clerk of the House, the Law Society, the Human Rights Commission, and other officials\u2014that Government committee members refused to discuss at select committee\u2014during the committee stage of the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a942688a571d4a60b1afb3f7f1186c90\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: As I understand it, that committee could not reach agreement on anything, and the bill has been discharged from the select committee and is to be debated in the House unchanged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb06543c3aa44df89a86af9cb6c65db9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is it fair for him to be pressing the Greens to vote for this bill when the origin of this problem was in the chaotic formation of this Government when New Zealand First would not meet directly with the Greens; and why doesn\u2019t the Government do as Helen Clark did in 2005 on the same bill at the same stage of the process, and with the same controversy\u2014simply shelve the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b11abff14d2a4ac5b458d899532b9d5b\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is a Government bill. It has been agreed by Cabinet and the full Government as a Government bill. That member might want to reflect on his actions in 2003 when, after Maurice Williamson publicly stated that he thought it was time for the National Party to stand for something, that member moved a motion in his caucus to have Mr Williamson expelled from that caucus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e32b936f595a4e99a360a7ffed9a5d11\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just wish to put on the record a personal explanation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c05b09ae6f545e8a9b922db5ca6d4da\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member wants to seek leave to make a personal explanation relating to the comment that Mr Little just made. Is that right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256735f30f4b24fa592b7c5dd0e79eb9b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3cf0f102af844039510ad752745bab4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213741f691c314a4c9cf84a9cfd91046d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The statement made by Mr Little is totally incorrect and false.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1231cb980e64d9ab1851a7d38e8986c\u0022\u003ERaymond Huo\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. With due respect, what Dr Smith described about the proceedings of the Justice Committee was incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022083a1bcb8a0344f98683e45e712b6c1a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014the member has been here for some time now. He will know that while questions are meant to be accurate and there\u2019s a degree of authentication required for primary questions\u2014and if I have severe doubts or anxiety, I can require it for supplementary questions\u2014we don\u2019t have such a high standard for supplementary questions from either side of the House that all assertions made in them are accurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286056bd17ac94c29ad1c7b98beb3755f\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In light of your comment about authentication of primary questions, I wanted to raise an issue with you about this very primary question No. 7, in that it is described in the question as the waka-jumping bill. That is not in quotation marks, therefore\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8b4ac7e770d4dccb87bcf82c51b6cde\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And I apologise. That is my responsibility for letting it through in that form. It should have been within a quotation, but I\u2019m sorry that I did focus on the grammatical errors later in the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022087c5bb94a7b498fa879f1e72502ba72\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I promise it will be a constructive one. Just a question: is it in order for a member to use a personal statement to suggest that a member has misled the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f02dbd40287e472ebe4d9ede0b3af527\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think that there was a suggestion that someone deliberately misled the House, in the statement made by Dr Smith. If he was suggesting a breach of privilege that way, that would be out of order, but I did not take it that way. Maybe I was being generous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022efe0b827b0304ca0a41380732896ef89\u0022\u003ETertiary Education\u2014Vocational Institutions\u0027 Financial Support\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022971493ab5e434af09eced6d142be88c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022971493ab5e434af09eced6d142be88c7\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What steps is he taking to address serious financial viability issues affecting New Zealand\u2019s institutes of technology and polytechnics sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00223eaf9b07aed146169a0016e9f1af9327\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223eaf9b07aed146169a0016e9f1af9327\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E On becoming Minister of Education, I put in place an immediate programme of work to deal with the serious structural issues facing vocational education and training in New Zealand generally, but particularly facing the institutes of technology and polytechnics sector. While that work is under way, there are some immediate issues that we need to deal with, and last week I announced that I have dissolved the Unitec Council and appointed a commissioner at Unitec. I am doing this after receiving the final submission from Unitec\u2019s council, which supported the move. Unitec needs urgent and significant financial support, and I believe the commissioner is needed to ensure that both the Tertiary Education Commission and I have the oversight that we need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022786a83f2adca4c86917d734172697e05\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: Who has been appointed as commissioner?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022524454ac46a7434f8dbbfa878a0a2839\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The new commissioner is Murray Strong, who is also the Government-appointed Crown manager at Tai Poutini Polytechnic on the South Island\u2019s West Coast. He\u2019ll be supported by an independent financial adviser already in place, and I will soon be appointing an advisory group to support him. Murray Strong is extremely experienced in working with tertiary education organisations that are experiencing some difficulty. I hope that his appointment will give real confidence to students and staff about Unitec\u2019s future. This Government is absolutely committed to ensuring that Unitec\u2019s role as a major provider of vocational education and training in the Auckland region is secured.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022494c60a3f9bc4be591c38204c9ad5d42\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: Why are many of our polytechnics and institutes of technology struggling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fd4620dcfc94ca6bcce993a993c3faa\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The majority of the sector is projected to be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223eda68602b2743bba66f52fa193658ab\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Fees-free\u2014no one turned up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b527bd3a97a481f9134edcf09a9284d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in deficit within two to three years under the current settings, due to the unsustainable financial position the sector was in when we became the Government, Gerry. The complete\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5d91a3e7dc540caaf2a19ddc4a2a5ab\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ff5e02bae044c10b3e5e6e5e4061228\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b9919ea1c6642f782632d1ccc409447\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c5803b37b76474fbd373740a51b72da\u0022\u003EBuilding and Construction Industry\u2014Government Policy and Skills Shortage\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5db8572b754473a887d9515e373f991\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5db8572b754473a887d9515e373f991\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Building and Construction: Does she agree with the comments of Property Council Chief Executive Connal Townsend that there is a \u201Cperfect storm\u201D in the building and construction sector that includes issues with cost escalations, allocation of risk, lack of skills, and problems with the Building Act 2004?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00224e7d96b6b1eb4831a3223fdeb6a3e88d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e7d96b6b1eb4831a3223fdeb6a3e88d\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E There are a number of longstanding issues affecting the building and construction sector, including the allocation of risk, lack of skilled people, building costs, and the Building Act. My colleagues and I have a work programme to address these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7bd4c5bd79244d1a541d5cb4ebd455a\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What new policy initiatives has she announced to prevent the loss of skilled tradesmen leaving New Zealand for Australia, where there is a boom in construction and infrastructure projects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e884a63806e84142b9ab77d8b0abfa43\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: What this Government has done\u2014and I chair this\u2014is we have convened nine Ministers to look at and to address construction skills in general. We are at the moment seeking advice from industry. We know that these issues are longstanding, and we know that the Government does not have the answers on its own. We are willing to make sure that we are training enough people. I have not yet announced a new scheme to stop people from going to Australia, but we are looking at training enough of our own people to build our own houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f30e8d9ec694356b378a5bd18c922a7\u0022\u003EVirginia Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to lift skills in the construction sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263fbe35e0ee7429492e7222c9a990db1\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: The ministerial group that we\u2019ve established, the construction group\u2014we have a draft construction skills action plan. We\u2019re out now asking industry, because the nine Ministers together have come up with five ideas\u2014three of them are brand new; two of them are expansions of ideas\u2014and it is all to make sure that we are training up our own people. The reality is that in the building and construction sector, the majority of the workers in the sector\u2014256,000\u2014are New Zealanders. So in the long term, the long-term solution has to be that we train up our own people to build our houses, including KiwiBuild.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207fccbc7ab434e2d8bde4507782233f2\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What new policy initiatives has she announced to facilitate the introduction of appropriate new products into the building and construction sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246b386472db746ffab7fb4ac3bae99f2\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: I have not yet announced a new policy in this area. However, this is part of the area of priority for work for me as the Minister for Building and Construction. The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) is currently\u2014right now\u2014out consulting with the sector, because we are looking at a products review. The policies that MBIE will present to me as Minister will come in the next few months. So I will be presenting a paper to Cabinet in the next few months, and after then we will make some policy decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cd6aca6e52a4cfa839598031166a0c1\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What new policy initiatives has she announced to amend the Building Act to make it more fit for purpose?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022547cc98ecdc74bc7a2eaa7e46590e15b\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: I have not yet announced a new policy to do with the Building Act, but that is because we have a big work programme in the building and construction sector. We are looking at reviewing products right now, and the regulations. We are looking at reallocation of risk and liability. There are several other work programmes that we\u2019re currently doing with MBIE in terms of me being Minister for Building and Construction. We will look at all of that because we are looking at a whole-of-system approach. We don\u2019t want to be introducing new legislation that we then have to come in and amend and amend, or amend later on. We want to get it right the first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee00a38aba374039bb650f73700a384d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next supplementary, can I ask the\u2014I think it\u2019s Marja Lubeck up the back. I know she was waving more fingers than might be normally considered offensive, but I would ask her not to do that again. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244599abca01d43ab8ae18fd04fad8a9a\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Why was no money allocated in the 2018-19 Budget for additional skills training for the construction sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258e15bbdef8f40ef9df07c2c548d7fce\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: The construction skills action plan that I expect to take to Cabinet in the next few weeks\u2014a lot of the new things that we\u2019re proposing will be paid for, but it will be paid for under baseline. Any new money that we would expect in terms of training new people will probably be considered in the Budget process of 2019.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298ef65642c34473483bb3bc727b23f42\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that she was involved with an announcement yesterday that will directly contribute to an improvement in the level of skills in the workforce in the building and construction sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022760f75776776479e9d01ede83e2f7be5\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. The Minister of Education, the Hon Chris Hipkins, and I announced the micro-credentialing skills system, which will allow us to ensure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207c0e85d35574f0f9d7f6ed9d9c84d49\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Lowering of standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263abf0917a08478eaa1f27f75b36b35d\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that we\u2019re building these houses as fast and as efficiently as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd498fefd11d4b698f3c6cc6cdbc9875\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Now, I do realise that the member has some expertise in the area, but I would much prefer him to make his contributions from his feet rather than his seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b784235751364132b19dd31d27581c58\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Is that an offer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c863c30954ba4842a6a6282ec242b9bd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member wants to have a question, go for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c2cd16f9e07840c18f8fcefb4e6567d8\u0022\u003ELand Information New Zealand\u2014Sale of Mt White Station\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0dbd674564744d68dd91914cd177197\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0dbd674564744d68dd91914cd177197\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Land Information: Does she agree with Forest and Bird that the Government has failed to clean up the historic anomaly around the ownership of Mount White Station, and is it in any way related to the 126 pastoral lease reviews that have completed the review process and are presently awaiting her ministerial sign-off?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022afafdb72e6e4449987e4ee28d0990761\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afafdb72e6e4449987e4ee28d0990761\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Land Information: On behalf of the Minister, in response to the first part of the question, I disagree. In fact, tomorrow, a representative of the owner and Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) are meeting already to start discussing how to resolve the status of Riversdale Flats. Regarding the second part of the question, there are no pastoral lease applications awaiting ministerial sign-off. I think the member may be confused\u2014126 pastoral leases have completed tenure review and need no further sign-off; they are done. Land has been freeholded and the other land returned to the Department of Conservation estate. If the member would like the details of the 126 completed reviews, he could do no better than to look on LINZ\u2019s website\u2014all the information is there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221edbda42a6e441baaf7ca4e211bb55a8\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the following statement on the recent sale of Mt White Station to a Czech-born businessman: \u201CIt\u2019s astonishing that the Department of Conservation and LINZ haven\u2019t got it sorted\u201D and that \u201Cit should be part of the national park. The Green Party would protect our high country landscapes and stop the sale of more than a hectare of land to overseas interests.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e77dea58d36544beb5033adc74be1d8d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: To be clear, the lease was purchased by a New Zealand permanent resident. Citizens and New Zealand residents are allowed to buy property in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1ae87929fb34686a118ba071bb23be7\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister says that it was purchased by a citizen or New Zealand resident, why did it have to go through the office approval process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc5d7ebdec5741a88a60610c52263313\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: There is a very specific answer to this question, which I\u2019ve seen\u2014and, in fact, I have it before me now, conveniently, and it will be somewhat embarrassing for the member, I suspect. Because the buyer is a New Zealand permanent resident, the Overseas Investment Office could not impose conditions. It is normal for it to go to the department in that situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cea659430e4d4ada87f4f602eab483c7\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister didn\u2019t impose any conditions in this case, then how does he reconcile that with the comments of Forest \u0026amp; Bird that this is an \u201Coutrageous\u201D and \u201Cgutting\u201D decision?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5cba5b25c4949fbbbc7a58d86e49014\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, I respectfully disagree with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bc02b964e8e44c9a4514c383d892281\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister assure the public that there will be no more sales of Crown pastoral-lease land to overseas interests until the Government has changed the laws around the overseas ownership of such land?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022697f45bd3817403eb2b7ce68cb029132\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: This Government takes overseas purchase of New Zealand interests very seriously, in contrast to the Government that\u2019s gone before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220cc5fdf2b11544ff9780afa0802756ed\u0022\u003EYouth Unemployment\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u00220e8abe5fa5cd46648db332307e91cc0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e8abe5fa5cd46648db332307e91cc0c\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Employment: What recent reports has he seen that demonstrate the progress young people not in employment, education, or training are making under this coalition Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7bc742c121a4038a7d9b752e30a4e93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7bc742c121a4038a7d9b752e30a4e93\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, we saw the release of the latest household labour force survey, and I\u2019m happy to share with the House that in the latest quarter, the youth \u201Cneets\u201D rate was 10.9 percent, down from 12.4 percent in the last quarter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e9af95d3ef6463fb29f2f3d6449b8f2\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Does the survey also demonstrate how M\u0101ori rangatahi are currently progressing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1c24a3e39a247279666121bb660a0f1\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s excellent news as well, I\u2019m proud to say. Our Government are very proud to inform the House that the rate for M\u0101ori young people who are classified as \u201Cneets\u201D is now 15.6 percent, down from 19.6 percent just over a year ago when the National Opposition were in Government. That means\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244e4da4486af4fceafc8c009c43e6500\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: All gone to Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d23fa827169466393dd12a9bc2f31f1\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Mr Brownlee\u2014that more of our rangatahi\u2014that means young M\u0101ori\u2014are either learning or earning, and that\u2019s great news for them and their wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4b7c5c0b4cf4c23b24801d4b8d74299\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: What does he consider to be the reason for these outstanding results?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022293e54975af54fe98b1fb97cceb4b9da\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I said when I became employment Minister that this Government is one that cares, and our Prime Minister has put that view many times\u2014that we are a compassionate Government, unlike the Opposition last year. We want to see our young people do well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f157485611a441f4bbcdbcef24048d6d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re going to Australia. They\u2019re on the plane.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cbe85c3b9154a65908b5a71068d08c7\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014so we got out there and worked with our communities, unlike Gerry Brownlee and the Opposition. We worked with our communities\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f65fd0b2516a47119f524b11d09c461d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. He\u2019s going to learn not to react, at some stage, if he wants to finish his answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b086b96993445229ef04c0b2430577a\u0022\u003EPolice\u2014Deputy Commissioner of Police, Inquiry into the Appointment Process\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002248a312de2f684e21b7d217271f9ab881\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248a312de2f684e21b7d217271f9ab881\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Internal Affairs: If she could redo the appointment process for the membership of the Government inquiry into the appointment process for a Deputy Commissioner of Police, would she do anything differently; if so, what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022689a1a670b3f490b9d7f73c80eb4379b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022689a1a670b3f490b9d7f73c80eb4379b\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Just to be clear, as Minister I do not undertake the appointment process; the Department of Internal Affairs does. However, since we have just had a highly respected New Zealander resign as the chair of an inquiry due to issues raised regarding historical social media interactions, it does appear that the process developed by the National Government in 2009 and amended by them in 2013 and 2015 may need further attention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247cc556509cb4355bb83cdffb8078224\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8815ee8bd28493d88131c1f20f7a7ad\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member have a question? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209dfffa400ce467583e24f5c5d44227d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: A supplementary, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6056b29829743909ffc35bbe76a3a9c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member better get to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3642fda228941d9857e17d0348fea15\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: How many candidates did Department of Internal Affairs officials place before her for consideration for selection as the member of the independent inquiry, the Government Inquiry into the Appointment Process for a Deputy Commissioner of Police, and what due diligence did she and her office do on the candidates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0b638c1636543b7ba76c00523a51726\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: If I recall correctly, there were at least five in the first tranche, and then another five in the second tranche, that were placed before me, but I would have to go and confirm that with my officers. With regard to due diligence, it was the standard procedure that has been in place since 2009. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228247df30d7984c9497d5cd4680d168f9\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm, then, to the House that she hand-picked Pauline Kingi to conduct the Government Inquiry into the Appointment Process for a Deputy Commissioner of Police, in preference to at least nine other suitably qualified candidates, and what was it about Ms Kingi that made her the right choice for the job in comparison to at least nine other candidates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed55c1df64124d3196a4278bfe91d8b3\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: The answer is no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1ea297559e440649d8ff81ce4420b80\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand her statement on Facebook on 24 July: \u201CI know for me particularly, the process is everything. Process is here to protect us all so I make sure that when I do something I do it well and I do it properly.\u201D, and does she think she handled the appointment of Pauline Kingi well and properly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259ceea7aa8534b828e9580da75f4bd56\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2363981abc8497ba87e97bdf3f22903\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Who was that? Which member made that noise? [Interruption] Order! Chris Bishop will resume his seat. Which member made the noise? [Interruption] No. The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise. That level of grunt is not acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e4f61a17ebd46c981639490c16d6c6b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0eff19ab0ac47b9a1212a9469a596ea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa780a315f8f4fa68f18094e75bd4654\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Did she consult with any ministerial colleagues when deciding to appoint Pauline Kingi as head of the Government Inquiry into the Appointment Process for a Deputy Commissioner of Police, as paragraph 43 of the Cabinet paper establishing the inquiry envisaged she would, and, if so, what Ministers did she consult with? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227609e7a1f64343e596acc16e4fe96cdc\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and the Cabinet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022248204190d544c7da15e67fd0dc3bd00\u0022\u003ESubordinate Legislation Confirmation Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e071929e6956448e981bf5cae8cb5c62\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00229d1a9fb1ff9444c88339f452b9efcaf0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d1a9fb1ff9444c88339f452b9efcaf0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Subordinate Legislation Confirmation Bill (No 2) be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 3 December 2018.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Regulations Review Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00224dc8f14d14cb4c449bdb5e1661899bb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dc8f14d14cb4c449bdb5e1661899bb8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Subordinate Legislation Confirmation Bill (No 2) be reported to the House by 3 December 2018.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a05f5b0263654b07be6fb5354693d609\u0022\u003EElectoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002264fc1dfb98f947819f0e3f6c3492c019\u0022\u003EDischarge and Referral to Justice Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002226878ac3f3864ea6b92a773cc6ca1bed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226878ac3f3864ea6b92a773cc6ca1bed\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the order of the day for the second reading of the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill be discharged and referred back to the Justice Committee to enable the many amendments proposed by officials and submitters to be considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f62a198351604c1fbc6ea2cb6a258624\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d7767ba5730f48fc9d6e01bf11c80ef1\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcff1f2028d6466d8077e44541c21abe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcff1f2028d6466d8077e44541c21abe\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a great pleasure to take this opening call in the second reading of this piece of legislation, because it does a very fundamental thing in our democracy. It affirms the very basic principle of MMP, which is that proportionality of party representation in Parliament is everything, and it reaffirms the point that the electorate, and only the electorate, determines the make-up of Parliament. There\u2019s a corollary to that: it, further, affirms that no individual MP on a whim can change the proportionality of representation of parties in Parliament. That is what it does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s been a lot of scaremongering and commentary, particularly from members opposite, or actually, really, from only one member opposite, and that\u2019s Dr Nick Smith. But, actually, what he has singularly failed to do\u2014and I might say he is in quite good company, because I have been stunned at those with letters after their names, occupying senior academic positions at our universities. Every single one of them has totally failed to refer to the number of conditions attached to a decision by a party to remove a member from their ranks, or, at least, to give a notice to the Speaker to give a notice to the member. So Dr Nick Smith, and pretty much all members of the National Party and others who have commented on it, have failed to take into account the provision in the bill that in order for a leader to take any step at all, the leader of the party\u2014the leader of the particular caucus\u2014must have the support of two-thirds of that caucus. That is a major safeguard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe wouldn\u2019t be in the position where, for example, you had an MP in your ranks who said \u201CIt\u2019s time the party\u201D\u2014the National Party, in that case\u2014\u201Cdid something to show what it stood for.\u201D and was met with members in his own party moving motions in their caucus to expel him. That was the experience of Maurice Williamson. Those were members opposite, prepared to expel one of their own members for having the temerity to go public\u2014in 2003\u2014and say, \u201CIt\u2019s about time we had a party that knew what it stood for.\u201D Well, I might add, 15 years on, we\u2019re still waiting. Maurice Williamson is gone, but 15 years on, we\u2019re still waiting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe reality is this: this bill is important. It\u2019s an important signal, an important provision in our electoral law make-up, to make sure when voters vote under our MMP system\u2014and we have a system that goes out to secure the confidence of the voting public\u2014that their decision matters, that their vote counts, and that their collective vote which determines the make-up of this Parliament cannot be changed by an MP who, part-way through a Parliament, decides on a whim they\u2019re going to do something different and distorts the proportionality of Parliament. It has happened before in this Parliament, and it has happened under comparable legislation to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAll members in this House will know of the case involving Donna Awatere Huata, who abandoned membership of her own party, and that party\u2014the ACT party\u2014took action. It went to court to determine whether or not the proportionality of Parliament had been upset. The Supreme Court, the highest court in our land, determined that proportionality had been upset, and, on that basis, she was out and she was replaced. That was right because when it comes to the voice of the electorate, when it comes to voting systems, the collective voice of the electorate must stand for something. It should not be undermined by members in this House who decide on a whim, or for whatever other reason, that they\u2019re going to go on a frolic of their own and upset the proportionality of Parliament that the electorate has determined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIf they want to do it, because any member is free to do it\u2014and that has happened also in this House. Dame Tariana Turia, a former Labour Party member, decided that she could not live with decisions of the Labour Government at the time, and she left. She left the party, and she tested her mandate with her electorate. She wasn\u2019t the first, but she was one of the most recent. She did it, and that is the proper thing to do. She came back under the banner of a new party, with an electoral mandate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c758cf24b21491193ede6dab9fca74a\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: This would disallow that. This would prevent a by-election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229567ac338abc4c18872db1fec8021386\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: If Michael Woodhouse thinks that that would somehow be prohibited in this legislation, no wonder Nick Smith\u2019s in the trouble that he\u2019s in. If that\u2019s the collective understanding of the National Party caucus, they\u2019re going to be on that side of the House for a long time, because it shows to us they cannot read legislation. It shows to us that they don\u2019t understand the basics of understanding legislation, because that would not be prevented under this bill. This bill is about reaffirming that very basic principle and that very basic point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut, you see, here\u2019s the other thing\u2014here\u2019s the real constraint on dodgy political decision-making, and that is that politics will still continue. You see, on this side of the House, we\u2019re quite happy to tolerate and understand and even sometimes embrace difference. A couple of parliaments ago, one of our members, Damien O\u2019Connor\u2014standing up fiercely for the rights of his electorate\u2014voted against his own party, the Labour Party, at the time, in favour of a Government bill to deal with windfall timber from a major storm on the West Coast. He did the political thing: he spoke with his party, spoke with his colleagues. His colleagues understood. Of course he had to look after the core interests of his constituency, and it happened. Politics will still happen. Politics\u2014political judgments\u2014will still be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI compare that, for example, with what we saw in this House just earlier this year, when this House was dealing with a member\u2019s bill on medicinal cannabis and a couple of members opposite said, \u201CNo, we\u2019re going to vote for it, because we\u2019re the young liberals of the National Party, and we\u2019re going to defy our then leader, and we\u2019re going to vote for it.\u201D Everybody was excited: \u201CLook at this. A new, invigorated National Party is doing something it\u2019s never done before in having MPs that are prepared to abandon the whip.\u201D Then, when it came to the vote, what happened? They all voted the same. Those \u201CYoung Liberal Turks\u201D,\u2014who put their name out there and said \u201CWe\u2019re not going to be bound by the old morays of the National Party any more.\u201D, voted with the rest of their dull, grey colleagues, might I add. They did that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe take no moral lesson from members opposite when they talk about the great right to abandon your party whip and all the freedom of speech stuff, because they don\u2019t do it. They\u2019ve never done it, and they\u2019re never going to do it. Poor old Maurice Williamson was the last one who dared to stick his head above the parapet, and they tried to expel him. Well, on this side of the House, the reason we don\u2019t worry about this is because we understand the right of members to disagree and to have a debate and to enjoy the privileges of this party. But one thing that this side of the House totally gets is that being in this House is not about being part of an elite. It\u2019s not about taking the privilege to the point where we deny the will of the electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWhat members opposite actually want to do when they oppose this legislation is have the right to defy the will of the New Zealand electorate. That is the contempt in which they hold voters in this country. Well, voters in this country have been very clear to me and to other members on this side of the House that they want the right of every voter, when the electorate votes collectively, to have their vote respected. It is respected when this House accepts that the proportionality of party representation in this House is solely the preserve of the electorate. It is not the right of members in this House to arbitrarily and sometimes capriciously decide they know better, they are bigger and more important, they are part of an elite, and they can defy the will of the electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis bill affirms a fundamental principle of MMP. Now, I know we\u2019ll hear all sorts of speeches, because we know that Dr Smith loves talking about 1930s Germany, and he accused various Government officials of being something pretty close to it, which was pretty despicable on his part\u2014he\u2019s a pretty despicable MP at times. But one thing is absolutely clear, and that is what this bill stands for and what this Government stands for, and that is the right of the electorate to be respected and the obligation of this House to respect the judgment of the electorate every three years, when they decide the make-up of this House and do not give licence to individual MPs to completely subvert it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00225b86f876436a49dcbcb1acc48fcc7480\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b86f876436a49dcbcb1acc48fcc7480\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just remind members that all members in this House are honourable members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5f238313d5e4dbb8684f0342b1f81ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5f238313d5e4dbb8684f0342b1f81ba\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Freedom of speech, tolerance of dissent, and respect for democracy are core Kiwi values that are worth fighting for. National opposed this bill at first reading and at select committee, and we will do so at every stage of the parliamentary process. The right of voters, and voters alone, to dismiss MPs was established 330 years ago with the Bill of Rights 1688. The powers in this bill for a party leader to dismiss an MP have no place in a liberal democracy like New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis bill is, ironically, named the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill. Its purpose, process, and the behaviour of Government MPs have been completely lacking in integrity. The Government says the purpose is to prevent distorting the proportionality of Parliament from party-hoppers. This is bunkum. The number of MPs switching parties has been negligible in the last six parliaments. There has only been one in the last decade, and that was Brendan Horan, who was desperate to stay in New Zealand First. There have been far greater distortions in proportionality from by-elections, from MPs resigning under the six-month rule, and from the threshold rule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe real purpose of this bill is to prop up this fragile Government by silencing any internal criticism. The Government\u2019s own statement on this bill says\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201C[It] will have a chilling effect on the expression of dissenting views by MPs.\u201D That sends a shiver up the spine of every Kiwi who loves and believes in democracy. This bill is about Parliament giving Mr Peters a legislative hammer to nail MPs\u2014like Brendan Horan\u2014who he falls out with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt is important that I detail the lack of integrity of the select committee process. We had 55 submissions\u2014not one supported this bill unamended. We had 21 constitutional and electoral law experts from our four great universities, the Human Rights Commission, the Law Society, former Speakers, and even the Clerk of the House opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThere are four concerning aspects of the process. Government MPs refused to discuss or consider any amendments, despite dozens of reasonable proposals from both officials and submitters. Secondly, Government MPs\u2014shamefully\u2014blocked the Justice Committee from even providing a report to this House on the bill. The Government refused to release the advice on this bill\u2019s compliance with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, despite that always being made public in the past, and it\u2019s an important issue when we have 21 legal experts saying it breaches the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. We also wanted it recorded that the committee unanimously resolved for officials to appear to answer questions on the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act issue, but they refused to attend\u2014something I have not seen in 28 years. These unprecedented lengths the Government has gone to to hide critical advice completely contradicts this Government\u2019s position that it is the most open and transparent Government ever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe Green Party position over this bill sets a new low in parliamentary integrity. Co-leader Marama Davidson says this bill is undemocratic, she says it is a threat to democracy, and she says it goes against Green Party principles and policies, but they are voting for it. She justified it by saying this\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CIt is in our supply and confidence agreement, and we had to.\u201D That is untrue and contradicts the advice from the Cabinet Office that has now been leaked by horrified Green insiders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELate last year, Mr Shaw stated that the advantage of the supply and confidence agreement was this\u2014and I quote him\u2014\u201CGreen MPs will not vote for anything they do not agree with.\u201D That is exactly what is happening here. This betrayal of core values could not be more serious. A founding Green co-leader said of the same legislation, in 2001, that it was the most Draconian, obnoxious, anti-democratic\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239cc220bcaa8402cb4d589222030dfb3\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Dr Smith has now brought the memory of Rod Donald into this debate and into question time a number of times. I think this is the fourth time that I\u2019m aware of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfe01462406443fc997ff681b53290c0\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would you get to the point? Is there a point of order here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228675ffcbdf0a4bc2b14ffeb230ee6075\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there is. I\u2019m offended and I\u2019d like him to withdraw and apologise. It is called waving a dead man\u2019s hand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245e9b8283c6442e48993129dea20abbd\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Everyone will sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a65ec8c97c34773b614e81a097b7e31\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and he has no right to speak\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289f67fa5517b43c796f7f53aabc42d94\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022721844e7a9e94ec4b094d92ce0382385\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for Rod Donald.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289f3ba5cb4c64a8b9022521cddcb83ff\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down! When the Speaker is on their feet, members resume their seats. That is not a point of order. Unfortunately, you cannot take offence on behalf of another member. That member is absent; you cannot take offence on behalf of another member. That is not a point of order, and I call the Hon Nick Smith to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf1a634f53054d988594e24f0f258c4e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Let me quote from the Hansard\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225efcbbf95cd748eda3b0dbca2065aada\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b13128ce373847dda2bbe097d62405cc\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022170cd4e7aebd4a7f8862f2c496781c98\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: I am not offended on behalf of anybody else; I am offended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229deac13825184fb589c628d92b6d8adb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, but the point of your offence is on behalf of another person. You are taking offence at reference to another person. You cannot do that. It is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b962c64d0fab4cf2901e35c330ae30d1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: A quote for Mr Shaw\u2019s benefit from the parliamentary Hansard: \u201Cthe most draconian, obnoxious, anti-democratic, insulting [piece of] legislation ever inflicted on this Parliament.\u201D Yet it is now to become the law with the votes of people like Mr Shaw. We also heard evidence from officials at select committee that this bill breaches the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Only six months ago, I heard the member in this House quoting the importance of those treaties and human rights, yet today is the vote on a bill that tramples on those very rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe lack of integrity from New Zealand First on this bill is no better. When a National MP left for New Zealand First, Mr Peters totally backed him, saying it was his right and he was not elected to swear an oath of blind allegiance to any political party. Mr Peters\u2019 principles are as shallow as a bird bath. If an MP leaves a party for New Zealand First, that is their constitutional right, but if an MP leaves New Zealand First for another party, he calls it a constitutional outrage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EOne of the most substantive submissions we heard was from David Carter, who provided the report of the Inter-Parliamentary Union on 162 parliaments around the world. That report states that laws of this sort create\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Cpolitical party dictatorship[s]\u201D. It goes on and says that the free mandate of MPs is an indispensable part of our democracy. None of the countries that we would want to be associated with have those laws. In most parts of the world, this law that we are passing would be against their constitution and wrong. I ask the House to reflect on the war memorials on this wall, for those who fought in World War II, who then had a part in writing the constitution of Germany to protect the values of freedom, which this law would offend and would be against.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EHere is the most important issue with this bill\u2014and it motivates Mr Peters\u2019 insistence on it, but has caused such angst for constitutional experts, like Professor McLean from Auckland University. The most important rule in our constitution is that Government must maintain a confidence in this House; that is why confidence votes are so important. They have been lost 13 times in this Parliament due to MPs losing confidence and voting the Government down. This bill weakens that check by enabling the Government to sack those MPs and replace them with compliant ones. If it was a court, we would call it jury-rigging.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EFinally, this bill is about not the rights of MPs, but the rights of the public. They lose the exclusive right to fire MPs. MPs will be more subservient to their party leaders and less responsive to their constituents. MPs will be more party robot and less individual thinker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt was with great pride that I read The Economist magazine that rated New Zealand, of 170 countries, one of the most democratic countries in the world and Transparency International ranking this fair country of New Zealand as the least corrupt country in the world. This bill risks eroding those stellar rankings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe Government has time to pull back. I ask them to reflect on Helen Clark who, in the same position\u2014same legislation, same stage\u2014in 2005, abandoned an identical bill. I call on Green Party members throughout the country to encourage their MPs to at least vote for our amendments that set a sunset clause and greater judicial checks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENational will work with anyone and everyone. We will do everything to protect this country\u2019s core values around democracy and freedom of speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00223f789c55070d40619c8f016ec6795b47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f789c55070d40619c8f016ec6795b47\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The question that those listening on will have in their minds now is: why are the National Party so afraid of the voters? What is it about the democratic process that they are so afraid of? What is it about the principle of MMP that says it\u2019s the voters who should decide the make-up of Parliament\u2014what is it about that principle that they are so afraid of? Why do they believe that members of Parliament once they get to Parliament, having been elected under a party banner, should be free to abandon that party banner and distort the make-up of Parliament in a way the voters never intended without going back to those voters for a mandate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt is absolutely acceptable for a member of Parliament to stand up in this House and say, \u201CI do not support the position of my party, and I\u2019ve got to go back to the electorate and seek a new mandate because I don\u2019t support the party that I got elected under.\u201D It\u2019s happened before, and members of Parliament who have done that have been rewarded by their constituents for doing just that. Tariana Turia did that. I disagreed with her doing that, I was disappointed when she did that, but she did it and she was re-elected. She had the integrity to go back to the people of her constituency and say that she didn\u2019t feel she could be a member of this party any more\u2014the Labour Party\u2014and therefore she sought a fresh mandate from her constituents. When Winston Peters was expelled from the National Party, he had the integrity to go back to his voters and say, \u201CI am no longer a member of my party, of the party under whose banner I was elected, and I will therefore seek a fresh mandate.\u201D\u2014and he got it. He was not afraid of the voters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo what is it about the National Party of today? What is it that they are so afraid of that if they think they are no longer willing to support the position of their party, they should not have to go back to their constituents and seek a fresh mandate? Why is that a problem? What is so affronting about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ERarely has a bill in this House been the subject of so much misinformation as this one has been, and much of that misinformation\u2014much of that misinformation\u2014has been propagated by the increasingly bizarre questions from the Hon Dr Nick Smith. Over the past couple of weeks, he has compared New Zealand to Zimbabwe in his contributions. He has reached back to the depths of the 19th century and invoked the name of Winston Churchill, who he told us had changed parties twice over appeasement, which the history books will say is not true. In fact, the only time Winston Churchill changed parties was once, in 1904.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s go back 120 years and consider what Nick Smith is holding up as the beacon of democratic representation. What is he holding up? Well, let\u2019s go back 120 years: women could not vote in that Parliament, half of the working-class men could not vote in that Parliament, Oxford University had its own MPs in that Parliament, and half of the Parliament\u2014half of the Parliament\u2014was reserved for rich men who gained their seats through a hereditary entitlement. That is what Nick Smith is now holding up as the beacon of democracy for New Zealanders. I think we\u2019ve come a long way since then. One hundred percent of the MPs in this House are elected by the people of New Zealand, and that is exactly as it should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIf the members of this House no longer feel that they can remain true to the policies and the platform that they were elected under, then they should go back to the people of their constituencies and they should seek a fresh mandate. If they are standing on a point of principle and the people of New Zealand believe that it\u2019s a legitimate point of principle, then they may well be rewarded for that, but this idea that MPs part-way through a parliamentary term can go and set up a whole new party and then, for the remainder of that term, represent an entirely different platform\u2014that\u2019s what the National Party are arguing for: an entirely different platform to that which they were elected under. That is what the National Party are saying that people should do, and I thoroughly disagree with that proposition. I think that members of Parliament, having been elected by the people of New Zealand on a party platform under a party banner, should stay true to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ENobody is suggesting that the conscience vote in this House should be removed. We\u2019ve seen conscience votes exercised in this very term of Parliament. In fact, the only party in Parliament that prevented its MPs from exercising their conscience was the National Party, because several members indicated publicly that they were going to exercise their conscience one way, and then the National Party stopped them doing that. On this side of the House, we\u2019re happy for MPs to exercise their conscience on conscience votes. They will go back to their constituents in the next election, and then people will be able to decide one way or the other. Medicinal cannabis was exactly that case: members on our side voted for and against that, but those members on the other side of the House who wanted to vote for the bill were prevented by their party from doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo nobody on this side of the House is proposing that the conscience vote be done away with. Nobody on this side of the House is saying that where members disagree with their parties and the parties are OK with them voting their conscience, they should be prevented from doing so\u2014and, as my colleague Andrew Little pointed out, there\u2019s history with that. Damien O\u2019Connor disagreed with the Labour Party on issues to do with the West Coast and has voted differently to the party. He\u2019s still here; the party didn\u2019t seek to expel him from the Parliament. So there\u2019s all this scaremongering on the other side about the potential effects of this that, simply, is almost entirely false.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe issue here at heart is that the voters of New Zealand should get the Parliament that they vote for. That is what MMP is all about. Why should MPs be able to leave their parties, set up new parties, and remain in Parliament potentially for three years? Under the National Party\u2019s reasoning, someone could be elected under a party banner, the day after the election they could start a whole \u2018nother party and promote policies completely contradictory to the platform they were elected under, and that is OK. That is not OK, and New Zealanders have been very, very clear that they don\u2019t support that approach, because those MPs who have done that\u2014the history of MMP will show\u2014don\u2019t generally tend to fare very well when they stand for re-election at the next election. What this bill does is it says they shouldn\u2019t get that far. They should have to seek a fresh mandate when they do it, and there\u2019s nothing wrong with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis bill is perfectly acceptable. It says that it is the voters that should determine the make-up of Parliament, and I do not understand why the National Party think that is such an affronting idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002277c6c4f2d4824266bd18ed08b36000d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277c6c4f2d4824266bd18ed08b36000d2\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E You only get the sorts of frantic speeches that we\u2019ve had from the Government today and the frantic interjections that we\u2019ve had from the Government\u2019s support party today when the members of those parties know that they are seriously on the back foot and out of step with what the general public is prepared to accept.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI think the claims by Mr Hipkins and claims by the Hon Andrew Little that, somehow, it\u2019s the voter who should always be determining who comes into this place is just a little bit of chicanery, really, I suppose you would say. It is snake oil salesmanship, because the reality is that this bill makes it abundantly clear\u2014and Mr Little himself, in his comments, stated it\u2014that it asserts the primacy of the party leader. It is the party leader who determines what actually happens to dissident MPs. You\u2019d have to ask yourself, in a Westminster democracy, a safe democracy like we have, where you can have simple changes of Government without too much angst or otherwise, and a system that does respect voter choice, would you have a bill before the House that will see the power of our democracy concentrated in the hands of the three or four or five leaders of parties who are in this House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt doesn\u2019t surprise me that Mr Little wants to stand up and say \u201CWell, it\u2019s now all about the party vote. It\u2019s all about the party vote.\u201D, because while that does determine the make-up of Parliament, the reality is that those three parties who are forcing this particular provision upon the electorate of New Zealand are all made up predominately of list members of Parliament. And it is completely disingenuous for the Hon Chris Hipkins to say, \u201CWell, if they disagree with what is currently before the House, they should resign and they should test their mandate.\u201D They can\u2019t, unless the leader backs them. So there is no way that that is a legitimate thing to say. It is utter nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you something else: the idea that we should somehow be reprimanded for calling into this debate the past comments of Rod Donald is, to my mind, pretty sad. I considered Rod Donald to be a friend of mine. I\u2019d known him for many, many years before we both entered Parliament at the same time. I enjoyed having a lot of discussions with him. I was on the wrong side of his argument over MPP, but he achieved something in this country that is quite unique because he, more than anybody else, swayed the vote in favour of MMP. But he did not see some kind of primacy in that going to the potentate leaders of trumped-up political parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhen we come into this House after any general election and we take our seats in various places and we are called up by the Clerk to swear our oath or make our affirmation, we\u2019re not called in party blocs; we\u2019re simply called alphabetically, because every member who is declared elected to this House is elected equally. For a bill like this to come before the House that, effectively, will say, in the first instance, list MPs are totally beholden to the party machinery\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de18a7db0f0f4abeba551972ac65542b\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: You haven\u2019t read the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e291b14868374e1282698f033f82567d\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014every bill, on every bill; totally beholden to the party machinery\u2014is, I think, a great travesty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ELook at those who have in the past stood up against their parties. Let\u2019s keep it into recent times, where people might be able to remember\u2014going back to Brian MacDonell from Dunedin North. Brian MacDonell declared himself an Independent because he could see what the Labour Party was going to do. He could see that when they went into the 1984 election, they would present themselves as being the champions of the people, they\u2019d present themselves as being\u2014interestingly\u2014a kinder New Zealand, but then, of course, we all know what they did. They completely upended it and became the most right-wing Government that this country has ever seen in delivery of economic policy. Brian MacDonell had every right, on behalf of the people who elected him, to take the position he took.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThere was talk today about Tariana Turia. Well, Tariana Turia was elected by her electorate, by the M\u0101ori seat that she represented, and those people\u2019s best interests, she considered, were not being served by the foreshore and seabed legislation. It would also have been interesting to members of this House to note that the Hon Dame Tariana Turia was also concerned about M\u0101ori health statistics, M\u0101ori education statistics, and M\u0101ori achievement statistics. She left the Labour Party, and she did seek a mandate and got it again. Had she been a list MP, she\u2019d have been out the door, and all the concerns of those people who had supported her on that basis completely lost\u2014completely gone, apparently not at all valid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo we come today to a situation where a bill that\u2019s before the House is, frankly, just a way of paying the piper\u2014paying Mr Peters for his support for the Government. There is nothing more in it. But I\u2019ll read these names: Tau Henare, Ann Batten, Tuariki Delamere, Jack Elder, Neil Kirton, Tukoroirangi Morgan, Deborah Morris, R\u0101na Waitai, and T\u016B Wyllie, and then Brendan Horan\u2014all people who have left New Zealand First. Now, when you\u2019ve got a list of 11 like that, you ask, who was it who really should have gone? What was it about the arrangements in that party that meant that those people lost their voice? It is because the leader set himself up in some kind of supreme position, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re mandating with this bill today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not surprised the Green Party heads are down, because no party in this current Parliament has benefited as much from the ability to move in and out of parties as the Green Party has. The Alliance was a loose collection\u2014loose collection\u2014of multiple parties, of which the Green Party was a substantial bloc. But they only got the opportunity to have their voice heard in Parliament by eventually separating themselves from the Alliance, staying in Parliament, and running their campaign for the last six months of that Parliament, virtually, as Independents, albeit there was this mickey mouse arrangement where Jim Anderton remained as the leader of the Alliance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen there\u2019s Jim Anderton himself. There is a man who became an Independent, stayed in Parliament, and railed against the excesses of the 1984-90 Labour Government and, ultimately, was rewarded by the people of Sydenham. When it became Wigram, he was leader of the Alliance, but only so long as that held together, and it fell apart because the constituent parties felt their voice was not being heard. So it is a wrong proposition to say that, somehow, someone in this House standing up and saying \u201CI believe in this, because I think it represents what the people who sent me here want me to do.\u201D is somehow wrong, taken away, and put into the hands of a leader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be clear: all this nonsense in here about a person notifying the Speaker and all that sort of thing\u2014that\u2019ll never happen. MPs can resign any day of the week they want right now. I know Darroch Ball\u2019s considering it, and I don\u2019t blame him. But to have a situation where a leader goes around and taps all the caucus members on the shoulder and says, \u201CHey, we\u2019re sick of him. We want him out. So I\u2019m going to write to the Speaker.\u201D\u2014that is not democracy. That is far from democracy. That is the sort of thing that you see in countries where there is turmoil every time there\u2019s an election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo our position is very, very strong. We will not support this bill. And, yes, people will leave parties from time to time; they will sit as Independents. In the end, in a short electoral cycle, there is plenty of opportunity for the voters to make a decision about the choice that that individual has made. But, I state again, it is totally disingenuous for anyone to say that a list member of Parliament can choose to leave Parliament and have their position tested by the electorate. They can\u2019t, and what this bill does today is make it abundantly clear that if you are a list member of a caucus, you are beholden entirely to the views of the leader\u2014in other words, the four or five people in this Parliament who will lead parties now control our democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdb1399b7e28444c9bf0002a89e4f5a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdb1399b7e28444c9bf0002a89e4f5a3\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I think Gerry Brownlee\u2019s made it quite clear that one of two things has happened. The first is that he hasn\u2019t read the bill properly, or the second is that he\u2019s been led down the garden path by Nick Smith, down the creek with no paddle, and Nick Smith is taking the rest of the National Party members with him, with an ill-informed, uneducated, ill-read look at what this bill is actually trying to achieve and what it actually is going to achieve, whether they like it or not\u2014whether they like it or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EYou see, there\u2019s a couple of things that, firstly, Nick Smith said and that Gerry Brownlee backed up. A couple of quotes: the first is that it allows the leader \u201Cto dismiss an MP\u201D. That is absolutely and totally false\u2014absolutely and totally false. It is written in the legislation itself that there needs to be a two-thirds majority caucus decision. Now, I\u2019m not entirely sure how the National Party caucus runs, or is trying to run at the moment\u2014let\u2019s put aside the fact that it\u2019s rudderless at this point in time\u2014but that\u2019s not how a democratically run party that is represented in this House runs. Two-thirds majority\u2014that is stipulated in the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe second is something very strange that Mr Smith said. He said that it doesn\u2019t allow voters to fire the MPs. That\u2019s what he said\u2014quoted. This legislation actually does that very thing. It puts the mandate on the people of this country. It puts the decision on the people of this country, in two ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a194d70940944fa4b2eb181fbeebf5e2\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: No, it doesn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f250c7318be4b9f92ae54df61f2fd1a\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: In two ways, Mr Hudson. If you want to listen up, you might learn something, because, obviously, you haven\u2019t read the bill, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022499dfca5f0e045c0a1ddb475c2da3fe3\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I don\u2019t have to read the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c38bd66611f746f1b4e81a41b35db374\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: That member, Mr Hudson, will learn something if he listens, because he obviously hasn\u2019t read the bill either. Stop listening to Mr Nick Smith. You see, if one is a list member, then who put them in this Parliament\u2014who put them in this Parliament? Why are there a number of seats, proportionally speaking, in this Parliament, the way that they are very much today\u2014the way they are today? The people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bb5108ac3174acfa77d2fee5ab72f7c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Not the voter directly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e468452bbe45434aae29ad9bc4bca701\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes, they did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600e046319354eafa61097c955d8e1ea\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, they didn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cda5cd42f8a4c3da051626077496d52\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes, they did, Mr Brownlee. Oh, yes, they did. It\u2019s called a party vote, you see. This is the biggest problem that this National Party has had over the last decade. When they were in Government, they acted like this was first past the post\u2014like it was first past the post.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s a question, Mr Brownlee, and all those sitting over there at this stage: hands up who believes\u2014truly believes\u2014that they would have got and won their seat, if they\u2019re a seat holder, not standing on a National Party ticket. Hands up. Mr Brown\u2014Simeon Brown\u2014put your hand up, if you will. See, the only person was Mr Nick Smith. That\u2019s how far out of touch that gentleman is, and that\u2019s how far he is leading the rest of this party, the National Party, down the garden path. They want to listen to him. Mr Smith actually believes that he would have won this seat as an Independent, but no one else\u2014no one else here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ESee, this is the whole point. The Rt Hon Winston Peters, when he disagreed with the National Party, what did he do? He took his opinions and his grievances with the National Party back to the people. He resigned and he went back to the people and he got a mandate. That is what one calls a mandate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe arrogance is palpable from that side of the House that they truly believe that they\u2019re sitting there because of them\u2014because of that tick. Whether that party likes it or not, we are living in an MMP environment, an MMP democracy. The most important word represented in MMP is the \u201CP\u201D for proportional. Who decides what proportion is sitting in here? The people\u2014the people do. So what the National Party want in not having this legislation is that when the people are ticking the party vote on election day, they will have absolutely no certainty whatsoever that that will remain. Now, they can talk about the individual electorates voting that certain person in and whatnot, and if they truly believe that they got there because of that, then they should take their differences\u2014that they quite obviously have\u2014when they leave that party, and take it back and get a mandate, just like the Rt Hon Winston Peters did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EWhen someone such as Dr Smith has strong opinions about, obviously, political issues, you usually end up landing on the left side of the argument, on the right side of the argument, or somewhere in between. Unfortunately for Mr Smith, he has landed in la-la land, and he is taking the National Party with him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll give an example of what I mean. I\u2019ve got two opinion pieces here, from opposite sides of the spectrum, and both of them agree with him. One is from Chris Trotter and the other one is from\u2014not usually a bastion of or a flag-bearer for New Zealand First\u2014one Mike Hosking. They both say the same thing. I want to quote, firstly, from Chris Trotter, because he\u2019s actually got it right. If we listen to the likes of Nick Smith, he says, \u201CThe rights of the poor old voters are, of course, almost entirely disregarded by these upright constitutional guardians. The electorate\u2019s assumption that the undertakings given to it by political parties immediately prior to the general election will remain viable for the full three years of the Parliament term is dismissed\u201D\u2014by the likes of Mr Smith and the National Party\u2014\u201Cas quaintly na\u00EFve.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EMike Hosking, opposite on the political spectrum but of the exact same opinion, who said\u2014and Gerry Brownlee mentioned the Alliance\u2014\u201CGo back to Alamein Kopu. She fell out with the Alliance, but because she fell out with the Alliance, she just got to sit in Parliament.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5730ebb09ec4f88be5629a986405dd4\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t mention her at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286125117a64b4346bb63da715d18ad21\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: No, you mentioned the Alliance, so if\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c329db97298f4def8963faaa8669b2bc\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I mentioned nobody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb8439374dd24c7689788212501b68a0\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee mentioned the Alliance, which is what I said\u2014which is what I said. \u201CShe wasn\u2019t elected to Parliament, she was elected on the Alliance list, but she got to sit in Parliament for free.\u201D He goes on to say\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Cif you are elected under the umbrella of this particular organisation.\u201D\u2014being the party\u2014\u201CIf for whatever reason you cannot cope with that and you no longer want to be part of that organisation, you don\u2019t get then to just sit in Parliament as an independent as you didn\u2019t get elected that way and therefore you should get booted out.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EIf Mr Brownlee or anyone else from the National Party has doubts about this legislation, perhaps they just want to see the writing on the wall from their mates. They are saying that this legislation upholds the very nature of MMP in this country\u2014of MMP in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EIt is not up to the whims of the individual MP, just because they don\u2019t like the ticket they\u2019re sitting on any more, to quit and not represent what the voters want them to and what they voted for on election day, which was the proportionality of this Parliament. That\u2019s why the arrogance is palpable coming from that side of the House. On this side of the House, we recognise as a basic fundamental that we represent the people of this country\u2014that we represent the views and the wants and the needs of the people of this country and how they voted. Anyone else that is going to vote against that legislation disagrees with the statement I just made\u2014disagrees with the fundamental basics of an MMP environment in this country. It is disgraceful and telling at the same time that all the seat holders sitting over there did not put their hand up when I asked them. That answers the question for them, and it speaks volumes for the public of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00226733b5330fd34d5f92ec3bff18843ba1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226733b5330fd34d5f92ec3bff18843ba1\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E So, in answer to the last point that the previous speaker, Darroch Ball, made, actually, we don\u2019t have the arrogance to put our hands up and make the assumption that people would vote for us again. We\u2019d go back out to seek that mandate. But let me put one thing to you. Let me ask you\u2014let\u2019s see a show of hands here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225af268188c7048feaaeea65e2446e6f7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, don\u2019t ask me. You can ask the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600d873fc191426898414d7a52cf6a56\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker. Let me see from Mr Darroch Ball\u2014I\u2019m very interested to see whether he\u2019s going to put his hand up or not, because he\u2019s talking about MMP and the system. So when people went to the ballot boxes and voted for New Zealand First at the general election last year, do you think two-thirds of your voters supported you because they thought that you\u2019d form a Government with Labour and the Greens? Do you? Do you think\u2014put your hand up. Put your hand up. Oh, he\u2019s not putting his hand up\u2014that\u2019s interesting. [Interruption] So he\u2019s not going to\u2014oh, that\u2019s very interesting. The big speech about MMP, and all of a sudden now he\u2019s reneging on that. He won\u2019t put his hand up. He won\u2019t actually admit the fact that maybe it\u2019s just possible\u2014and, actually, the polls told us this, because they went from 7 to 3 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247c0e0a48a11414b858cf680e4bc1427\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: They saw his name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257ebb9bbefa248b4b91f6ce66978528c\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they saw his name. It\u2019s just possible that maybe half of your voters under an MMP system voted for you with an expectation that you were going to form a Government with the National Party. Did you ever consider that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bfc7b8a19d3406b96fc46cc20afab10\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure they did, but don\u2019t bring me into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f526f24a44b44fe0a89a4c5b4106098e\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: So maybe we should have wiped the result and we should have just gone back and started again under the premise that you put forward to this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s have a look at what else he said. This is what he said. He said that Nick Smith and the National Party\u2014in fact, Mr Little said this as well in his opening comment\u2014don\u2019t understand the bill. He said we\u2019re ill-informed, we\u2019re undereducated\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d3eb804600248898750acb48fc91fdb\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Uneducated, not undereducated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022596c489f0b024009b137bf5f4adc70e0\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, sorry\u2014uneducated. So tell me something: what do you say to the Clerk of the House? What do you say to Dr Edward Willis, who has a PhD in constitutional law? What do you say to Dr Christine Dann, a founding member of the Green Party? What do you say to the Human Rights Commission or Sir Lockwood Smith, a former Speaker? What do you say to 19 legal\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022818eaeacbe28402586391fc2693e9680\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would you stop bringing the Speaker into it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248159d908f1d4074b0a9be8b50b9e5f4\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, you\u2019re right, Madam Deputy Speaker. What\u2019s your response to 19 legal and political science academics, including Andrew Geddis? What\u2019s your response to the Legislation Design and Advisory Committee? What about Keith Locke? I know that there\u2019s some sensitivities about past Green Party members\u2014I will address that shortly. But what do you say to Keith Locke, former\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2c5219a110646b789d483e97f008c76\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t keep bringing me into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022419917c71cba4df8a515bc9f4deab002\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker. What\u2019s your response to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022299a702b718144c7a79b74b118849f35\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfda8ebf6e164bb8a41f872f2dfce987\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014sorry\u2014Graeme Edgeler, electoral law expert; Jeanette Fitzsimons, former Green Party co-leader? I\u2019m going to come back to her submission because, honestly, from my point of view, her submission was actually one of the most credible, and she brought up some points that no one else actually covered. The New Zealand Law Society; Professor Janet McLean, constitutional law professor at Auckland University; Professor Jack Vowles, professor of political science at Victoria University of Wellington; the Rt Hon David Carter, a former Speaker\u2014what you\u2019ve done is you\u2019ve stood in this House and you\u2019ve told them that they\u2019re ill-informed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022784ed25ac0c443b18f5534bd0e334f40\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022888c6bb672334b85a6c7295a450130cd\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and they\u2019re uneducated\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205e4507e0e444434b46a0f7ef0d8043a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222637732160fc45009fa6257b5e4e079c\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and also that there\u2019s a lack of understanding around the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a0e7004d9344ef49a41eb72d7982857\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s what I just said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b569949d7f94421fb37a4b896e272073\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you\u2019re standing by that? So you\u2019re applying all of that to the list of people that I just mentioned? OK, we\u2019ll take that. No problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I wanted to address was this, and it comes back to comments that the Hon Chris Hipkins made and that the Hon Gerry Brownlee addressed. I see that Marja Lubeck is in the House. Marja Lubeck was voted this year\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b30ca732ef6942a2939d99128fbc3ffb\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Say something nice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022163f999fcdd146499094a9dccb889f56\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to say something nice, don\u2019t worry. She was voted into this House as a list MP\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ca47e34f1774e3bb792c355b7f2a1c9\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: And a good one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b662699fc9f4a3ab7f0cdf257c6ce15\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and, she says, a good one. What she has done is she\u2019s come out very strong in terms of issues in Rodney, which is the electorate that she lives in, which is my electorate, as the electorate MP. We\u2019ve just had the extension of the road of national significance cancelled, so we\u2019re fighting very hard to try and get that reinstated. My expectation is that she\u2019ll be a strong voice within the Government for the electorate of Rodney. That\u2019s what my expectation is. The problem with this bill is that the minute it passes, she is purely a creature of the party. That is exactly what Marja Lubeck is going to become\u2014a creature of the party. I\u2019ll tell you why. I\u2019ll explain to you why. I\u2019ll explain to you why, so people at home can understand why. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe reality of it is this: if I take a position against my party on something that relates to my electorate, and this bill was triggered\u2014which, by the way, we won\u2019t, because we highly value our list MPs along with our electorate MPs. We don\u2019t differentiate between them. We all have got a contribution to make, and we\u2019re all an important part of the team. So we won\u2019t be taking any notice of this ridiculous bill. But, anyway, if I took a position on it, I can go back to the electorate, right? I can go back to my electorate, like you say, and I can seek a mandate. I can go back and say, \u201CI\u2019m no longer aligned to the values of my party. I don\u2019t agree with this policy that they\u2019re going to implement. It\u2019s going to be bad for us. I\u2019m coming back and I\u2019m going to stand as an Independent, and I\u2019m going to seek a mandate from you.\u201D\u2014sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker. I know you\u2019ve given up on me, but I am trying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EBut the problem is that Marja Lubeck can\u2019t do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201e65be54ef54383a3114ec7bb6caeed\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Why not? Are you calling me a puppet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dd848c026504dae841cd358da6797ff\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Because you can\u2019t go back\u2014yes, you are. She\u2019s hit the nail on the head. Now she\u2019s starting to understand. Yes, you are a puppet\u2014yes, you are a puppet. The problem for Marja Lubeck is this: she can\u2019t go back and seek a mandate. You\u2019re gone\u2014you\u2019re gone. There\u2019s no coming back\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c048e5afc349d9bedf1fe50a37629e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I bring the member to order. The member is actually addressing the Chair, and if the member thinks about that, it might help him in not bringing the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6aab40337384bd78ee369bdac2f8629\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a very good point, because I know that you could seek a mandate, without a doubt, Madam Deputy Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe problem with this bill is that she can\u2019t go back to Rodney. She can\u2019t go back to Rodney and seek a mandate, and that\u2019s the whole point\u2014that\u2019s the whole point. I can; she can\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236336b899fc94aa98563166597480458\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Just cannon fodder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231a4c6ee1e8940dc8ead1d4f0a71d459\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s cannon fodder. You are a puppet. When this bill passes, you become a puppet. You can\u2019t represent the people of Rodney\u2014she can\u2019t represent the people of Rodney.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI just want to address the Green Party and the Green Party leader, the Hon James Shaw, very quickly before I finish, because he and I sat in the green room last week before we went on to The AM Show, and I said to him, \u201CJames, I wanted to acknowledge the leadership that you showed through a very difficult period when Metiria Turei had to leave Parliament around the benefit fraud storm that blew up. I thought that you showed outstanding leadership qualities through that\u2014that was a difficult thing.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222741fb148fc04bdca92b31aa1f4753e6\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: I want to count how many times he\u2019s said \u201Cyou\u201D in this speech. It\u2019ll be ridiculous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229819f801407745c3a43ef993d0bca14f\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Have you got a comment to make on that, because I firmly believe, actually, that he did. But the issue that I have now with the Hon James Shaw is this\u2014and I understand why you get upset when you hear Rod Donald being quoted in the House, but the reality of it is that he has left that on Hansard for a reason. He spelt out very clearly how he feels about this bill, or how he felt about a bill very similar to this one. So the thing that I\u2019d be worried about, that I genuinely feel, is that if you continue down the path that you\u2019re on\u2014and I know you\u2019re going to take a call\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b3f489b9adf4c5b872c7bb83b53575c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would you look at me\u2014would you look at me? It might help you\u2014it might help you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022311650ac12254091bbc02764218b4611\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker. If Mr Shaw carries on down the path that he has chosen at the moment, then I personally feel that the leadership qualities that were on display for us during the general election, you\u2019re going to have a massive\u2014sorry\u2014Mr Shaw is going have a massive stain on that legacy that you have created. At the end of the day, if you\u2014sorry. If Mr Shaw sat there and actually thought about it, if you sat there for a moment and reflected and thought, \u201CIf Rod Donald was sitting in this seat, what would he do?\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc03f0f28f8d44fd9ddeb802b65c2d24\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: This is disgraceful\u2014this is disgraceful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c4d019aff8645b39cf70950e1fbd915\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: No, there\u2019s nothing disgraceful about it\u2014there\u2019s nothing disgraceful about it. I\u2019m sorry\u2014we\u2019ve gone back and referred to Hansard, an official record in this Parliament. James is going to have an opportunity to address it, but what I\u2019d ask is just to reflect on that, because I don\u2019t personally believe that the leader of the Green Party supports or believes in this bill any more than we do. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9dcca6bb05c4c679dd34c6378bc71b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9dcca6bb05c4c679dd34c6378bc71b6\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. I want to start by thanking the submitters who came along to the Justice Committee. It\u2019s a select committee that doesn\u2019t have a Green member on it, but I went along, as did Marama Davidson. We wanted to hear their voices. I do thank them and acknowledge that many will be disappointed with our decision to support this bill today, and I would like to explain the background to our decision. I would also like to acknowledge and address some of the concerns raised by the Opposition for the well-being of the Green Party, our principles, and our decision-making processes, given that they\u2019ve brought us into this debate so repeatedly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EOf the many, many decisions that we\u2019ve made since the 2017 election, the decision to support this bill has been the most difficult for the Green Party. The decision to change the Government was not difficult. The decision to join this new Government was not difficult. The decision to ask for and win 20 incredible Green priorities in our confidence and supply agreement was not difficult. We have already implemented many of the confidence and supply wins, and we are working constructively with the coalition parties to implement all the others. It is not difficult to stand for Green kaupapa, even when we do disagree with the coalition parties. We have done that on trade policy, we\u2019ve done it on defence spending, we\u2019ve done it on animal welfare, and we\u2019ve done on the M\u0101ori wards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo the difficult decision on this bill is not typical of the kinds of decisions that we\u2019ve had to make in joining this Government. What does make this decision uniquely difficult is the strong competing principles. The first is that the Green Party has spoken out vehemently against a bill like this in 2001 and 2005. The competing principle is that the Green Party is now committed to this new, multi-party Government, built on the merging of three parties\u2019 priorities in the first truly multi-party MMP Government\u2014MMP, a form of Government fought for and brought about in large part by the great work of the great man Rod Donald, a man who has been brought into this debate, whose memory has been dragged through this debate, by members in the Opposition who worked so hard during his life to impede his great work. That\u2019s disgraceful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EOur confidence and supply agreement includes a commitment to act in good faith to allow Labour and New Zealand First to implement their coalition agreement. Mostly, that doesn\u2019t involve the kind of proactive support in the House, but this bill does. So it is this commitment to good faith and our commitment to see the new Government succeed that has decided our position on this bill. We know that most out there\u2014we know that nature can\u2019t afford another three years of a neo-liberal National Party Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI now wish to address the process we\u2019ve taken to come to our decision. Far from some sort of smoke-filled back-door deal, the Green Party has gone through a robust internal process. We announced initially that we would support the bill to select committee. That gave us the opportunity to reach out to our grassroots, and it also gave our members the opportunity to be heard and to have their views put on the record. We have discussed and debated the competing principles behind this bill, led by our party\u2019s national executive and its policy committee, which represent elected members from the grassroots. I would like to thank that group for the work that they\u2019ve done with our caucus in coming to this decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EMany people understood our support of this bill and some didn\u2019t\u2014some pushed for us to oppose it, including many who submitted to the Justice Committee. I would like to acknowledge especially Jeanette Fitzsimons and Keith Locke, our great previous MPs, who will be disappointed in our support. These people were heard, and I\u2019m sorry that the outcome will be disappointing them today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ETo be clear, we do not think that this is a particularly good bill. We don\u2019t think it addresses a pressing issue in New Zealand today, and we do have concerns about party caucuses\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204e19e51c83a4a50b1558dd8a00bbf68\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019d like to hear the member\u2019s speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022346024399c91410f9951e0001ba8d8d7\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014we do have concerns about party caucuses being able to remove MPs from Parliament. So, yes, this was a difficult decision, but it has come about because we\u2019ve decided that this new Government must succeed and we must support it in good faith to succeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe decided to change the Government because we knew that the 250,000 Kiwi kids living in persistent poverty, beneficiaries, the multitude of families living in cars, our young people without mental health care living in an epidemic of youth suicide, and our natural environment could not afford another three years of the heartless, neo-liberal Government that that side of the House was leading. They couldn\u2019t afford it. This Government is bringing about significant green change and principle-led green change: the zero carbon bill, an end to oil and gas exploration, removing dehumanising sanctions for beneficiaries, world-leading domestic violence leave, and mental health services for under-25-year-olds, just to name a few.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo the confidence and supply agreement does that but it also allows the Green Party to speak out on our unique kaupapa. That is something that\u2019s close to my heart. Protest is close to my heart and I value you it as an out-of-Government Green Party MP\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022885b5f230dea49b2b21920232ee9f4db\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a18d1c689224ae99d505731db35bd14\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Flexible kaupapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ec3c07a30904e049203e222bf0e2e00\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4341247345e42e9b3c1f7c3d9505b1e\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I beg your pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220e4d3a4a4b24969b5b240bac2a5c67f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m calling you to order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f42c6f86f02643ae98dd745b9871d9ef\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Are you naming me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221873e46e392d4d3eac3737a9f133ca5f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m calling you to order, Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227032c959aecc47bb858d4186e25f0cc6\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well you cannot do that in that style.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0612456a4af444ba717cf5e20bc84f5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee, I have asked for the House to come to order. There has been a barrage across the House. I made it very clear that I wanted the barrage to stop. Now, we are permitted to interject. Those interjections need to be few and far between, and preferably witty, I think, is the phrase. Now, that is not the case. This is a robust debate, but I would like the opportunity to hear this speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc50ceea5cff4422a8aa5eb5b97b5e16\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. So the confidence and supply agreement allows the Green Party to represent our unique kaupapa, even when we disagree, and I will, in particular, continue to lead our position as the only party in this House who maintains our opposition to the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement. We will work to change the trade agenda so that neo-liberal principles will not be able to mar our democracy again. I will keep loud on disarmament; I will keep protesting against mass spying and the spy bases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson stood in this House not long ago to push the Government on discriminatory establishment of the M\u0101ori wards. She will continue to lead on honouring Te Tiriti and decolonisation, a paradigm-shifting stance that we\u2019ll bring people along with eventually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe have spent 19 years in Opposition and nine months in Government. The Green Party owes a huge debt of gratitude to the wider movement\u2014to everyone who\u2019s worked so hard to put us in this privileged position today. Deciding to be part of this new Government is the biggest opportunity in our party\u2019s history to make great green change, and we intend to take that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u002268c80a0ddbe94940862a920d75eda995\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268c80a0ddbe94940862a920d75eda995\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. In this House today we have witnessed the death of a party. The Greens have left the building. They have left their principles, their foundation principles, everything they stand for in the dirt. They chose a new member of Parliament to make the call while their co-leader sat there\u2014full of self-righteous indignation when interjecting earlier, and, as quiet as a lamb, gave the job to a junior member. What a disgraceful example of poor leadership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWe see the Greens completely tarnished. A difficult decision they had to make, \u201Cmarring democracy\u201D\u2014they use these words, and yet they betray those principles. I have been astonished by their willingness to fall over, to show no backbone whatsoever, not only to the principles that they were founded on but also to the utterances of their wise leaders\u2014the ones that paved the way, the ones that they stand on the shoulders of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe member who just resumed her seat, who took the last call for the Greens\u2014Golriz Ghahraman\u2014is somebody who is supposedly a champion of human rights. That\u2019s only if they\u2019re overseas. The human rights that have been trampled on by this bill are in New Zealand. Those victims are in New Zealand and in this House, and I am astonished at their outrageous manipulation of the truth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EEssentially, what was confirmed in that speech today is that the Greens sold their souls for the baubles of office\u2014and I\u2019ll come back to New Zealand First soon. They did not have the courage to say no to Winston. They took it all and they\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daf4317d00e8426dacd517f488c508b2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! You must refer to the member with his proper name, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a302d8adf78d4782b6a29b07ed4ea9f2\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Winston Peters. They had no courage to say no to Winston Peters\u2014just to be clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aeadb89405e54e889c2939b1103ed237\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m not going to sit here and listen to that member talk about people\u2019s lack of courage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eed9a1339fa84eaaae9584b3e5ef7a73\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Is that a point of order? That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fcedf64089e40ad90aaee792bfc852d\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is. It\u2019s out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c644982999444c7bb8850db2b5c6a946\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: This has been a very robust debate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f11797b5d6244ffb993bc532c1e51dc1\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: She can\u2019t say people lack courage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e6442fd2ec541d2b289ceabe98869d9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me? Excuse me\u2014do not answer me back when I am speaking. This has been a very robust debate. There have been lots and lots of very robust conversations across this House, and I will let the member continue with her speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea0bed818cc44485838a9ccd6ca4d13f\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. Let\u2019s look at what some of the submitters had to say, because I sat on the select committee hearing, to my amazement, a series of former Green MPs and Green Party supporters saying how much they condemned this bill and the Greens\u2019 spineless stance on it. We had Jeanette Fitzsimons, the Greens\u2019 co-leader from 1999 to 2009\u2014no mere rookie who\u2019s just come into the House, but someone who really did the hard yards for the party. She made a number of excellent points and she summed up this bill in this way: \u201CThe Bill breaches the Bill of Rights, denies freedom of speech and association, is contrary to international and NZ precedent, and is opposed by an impressive array of senior legal, constitutional, and political experts. It is unnecessary to address any real problem.\u201D As far as she was concerned\u2014and I agree with Jeanette Fitzsimons\u2014\u201CIntegrity cannot be legislated for.\u201D, nor, apparently, can it be drummed up in what\u2019s left of the dregs of the party she was part of for so long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWhen we look at what was said by that submitter when she came to the Justice Committee back in March, the idea, somehow, that proportionality of the House is disrupted, and that\u2019s why this bill is needed\u2014how ridiculous is that? The overhang, the by-elections\u2014these are the kinds of things that change the party balance in the House. Are we going to legislate about those? What would have happened had this bill been in force\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256c9733ad1404a80be29aa83e38ddcb4\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: No, because the voters vote for it. Get it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d44ce70365845909f2786e9eb71267f\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: That member wouldn\u2019t be here, that\u2019s for sure. New Zealand First would not be anywhere to be seen. In fact, both National and Labour were initially formed by party-hoppers: Labour back in 1916 by members switching from the Social Democratic Party and the united and labour parties; National in 1936 by members from the United Party and the Reform Party. New Zealand First\u2014and one could wish it otherwise\u2014would not exist if the Rt Hon Winston Peters had not left National, and he said in 1996, \u201CMembers of Parliament have to be free to follow their consciences. They were elected to represent their constituents,\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022652d975cea1d4af58f90188bc8944c9f\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: He resigned and went back and got a mandate\u2014he got over 90 percent, I believe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279b6aa9275264391bb08319b5d1f06ed\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014unlike the member who\u2019s barracking now, who has no constituents, and is utterly unelectable. Winston Peters went on to say, in 1996, that members of Parliament must \u201Cnot swear an oath of blind allegiance to a political party. If an MP feels that membership in another elected party better serves his or her constituents, then that can be put to the test at election time.\u201D Rod Donald said, at the time, \u201CWhat has changed?\u201D, and I agree with his comments, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think that when we come to Jeanette Fitzsimons again, she says, \u201CThe bill is a poor solution, looking for a non-existent problem.\u201D She also confirmed to us in March, when she came before the Justice Committee, that the Greens did not have to vote for this bill. They were not required to under their confidence and supply agreement, which was a revelation at the time. It\u2019s subsequently come out because it\u2019s been leaked by disenchanted Green affiliates, but it is certainly not in their confidence and supply agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe Greens tend to talk about good faith. Good faith? They\u2019re trying to prop up a coalition Government under good-faith measures\u2014swallowing a dead rat was how the co-leader Marama Davidson referred to it. As my colleague the Hon Dr Nick Smith said, \u201CGet used to the taste.\u201D, because they\u2019re selling their souls in a variety of different ways, but this is by far the worst.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWe had another former Green MP, Keith Locke. He renamed it the \u201CParty Conformity Bill\u201D. He called it a new low in parliamentary integrity. He said that as far as he was concerned\u2014he\u2019d voted against this legislation, I think, four times\u2014it violates the right of free speech by allowing for MPs to be expelled from Parliament as a consequence of speaking or voting differently from their party caucus and then, subsequently, to be excluded from that party caucus. He said, \u201CIt violates freedom of association by expelling an MP from Parliament for voluntarily ceasing his or her membership of a parliamentary party, or transferring his or her loyalty to another party.\u201D Essentially, it turns party MPs into what Rod Donald called \u201Cparty robots\u201D\u2014that was kind. They\u2019re more like poodles, which we see every day with the motley crew across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe Green Party, of course, would not have been in existence either with this bill. In 1997, they withdrew from The Alliance to pursue their more progressive agenda\u2014that\u2019s fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWhen you look at the history of the New Zealand Parliament, and you look at the way it has changed, and you look at the way this bill will stifle any further change\u2014we had not one, but two former Speakers of the House who came before us, including the Rt Hon David Carter, who made a number of excellent points, not only reflecting his past role as Speaker but, because he also chairs the New Zealand branch of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, he is somebody who knows about the way it is exercised and the way parliaments are run internationally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EHe said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThis report is critical of the sort of law being proposed\u201D and it will turn us into a place where we have party political dictatorships\u2014excuse me for muffing your words there a little bit, Mr Carter. The essence of what he was saying is that while party loyalty and discipline are necessary, they must never impair the full and effective exercise of freedom of expression and association by any member of that party, since these are overriding, fundamental human rights, and the rights of people who are elected into this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EOther colleagues have talked about being electorate MPs and being elected, and this bill would override, for example, in my case, my North Shore voters who brought me in here. That the party leader, now or in the future, could expel an electorate MP is an outrage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWe also heard from Dr The Rt Hon Lockwood Smith, who said that he felt it was his duty as a former Speaker to highlight how far this bill goes against the longstanding democratic traditions of our New Zealand Parliament. He said that this is a bill that \u201Ccould breach that fundamental right of Members to speak in the House freely, even if it causes discomfort to a Member\u2019s party\u201D or its leaders. During his nearly 30-year political career, he said that parliamentary debate had \u201Cbecome more constrained and increasingly controlled by the political parties. Accountability to political parties has been strengthened at the expense of accountability to voters, especially local constituents. The instances of Members crossing the floor \u2026 have become almost non-existent. There is no case to impose an even tighter regime on MPs with this bill.\u201D His submission was that the \u201Cprotection of the privilege of freedom of speech in the House must take priority and not be put at risk by the provisions of this Bill.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EMany people suggested that this is a bill, like its earlier iterations that were voted down and were unsuccessful, that ought to have a sunset clause in it\u2014an expiry date. Several submitters suggested that that expiry date be the end date of this shaky coalition, because that\u2019s all this bill is designed to do\u2014it\u2019s to prop up a coalition that could not exist otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIt has a number of names. We\u2019ve been calling it the waka-jumping legislation. It could also be called the \u201CWinston Peters Self-Preservation Bill\u201D or\u2014my particular favourite\u2014the \u201CBrendan Horan Memorial Bill\u201D. As far as I am concerned, this is a bill that has no part in New Zealand democracy. This is a bill that has no part in this House. It is a bill that we should all be ashamed of, except for us in this party, because we will vote it down every step of the way. I commend the work that my colleague the Hon Dr Nick Smith is doing on this bill, and I do not in any way, or ever will, commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022731aa49da64545d5be52976afafa6713\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022731aa49da64545d5be52976afafa6713\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call in the second reading of the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill. The aim of this bill is to enhance public confidence in the integrity of the electoral system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe Justice Committee received 55 submissions. I thank the officials and advisers, and the submitters. Labour members are disappointed because National members, led by Dr Nick Smith, chose to put politics ahead of select committee business. We can all reflect on what happened in committee last Thursday, the very last meeting before the bill was due to be reported back on the following Monday. National members, led by Dr Nick Smith, refused to deliberate on the draft report, despite the fact that the draft report was on the agenda and had been circulated for review and amendments in advance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe Justice Committee is a split committee of eight members, comprising four from National and four from Labour. For any such split committee, and for any such narrative report, normally the report would be in three parts. The first part is the committee report, reflecting the views of the submitters\u2014so in this case, their voice would be lost\u2014the second part would be the views of the Government / Labour Party, and the third part would be the views of the National Party. In that regard, I believe that National members will also regret that their view is not reported to the House. They would otherwise be able to say anything they like within the Standing Orders, and nobody else would have any editorial control on that sort of report. I appreciate that Dr Smith is disappointed now because he probably wishes to paddle but is without a canoe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EDuring considerations, officials and advisers have been subject to criticism and attack. Dr Smith went as far as moving a motion of no confidence in the advisers and officials. With due respect, Dr Smith should really not challenge the advisers and officials, because their job is to explain the policy initiatives. He should really challenge the Minister who is responsible for the Government policy initiatives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI recall also Dr Andrew Geddis\u2019 earlier email to the committee seeking an extension for his law students, but that request was also defeated. We said \u201CYes.\u201D, and National members said \u201CYes but\u201D, provided the committee would grant an automatic and universal extension to everyone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EIt is fair for me to say that during the entire process that this bill was considered, the committee was subjected to constant disruptions caused, largely, by Dr Smith. Having said that, I also reflected on the latest development concerning the bill and the publicity it has attracted. Yes, I was quoted in the media as saying that Dr Smith\u2019s been around in this place for close to 30 years and should be the father of the House but not the bane of the committee. I stand by the first part of the statement, but, reflecting further, I should not have used the word \u201Cbane\u201D, and I\u2019d like to apologise to Dr Smith in that regard. I say this sincerely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EAny advisers or any committee members that are subject to his sort of scrutiny or disruptive actions would walk out of the meeting room wiser and stronger. Why? Because, as they say, all trees need wind to grow stronger. I am that type of tree, and Dr Smith is that sort of wind. If he is happy, he gives us a breeze. If he\u2019s upset, he becomes a strong wind. If he\u2019s really upset, he gives everyone tornadoes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ENobody would deny that National has won many seats. I\u2019d rather them being powerful but still being reasonable and humble. That will win them more respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022236f4896e4bc452790bc9a7b2af2cfb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022236f4896e4bc452790bc9a7b2af2cfb4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I seek the leave of the House to table the draft select committee report on the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill and the amendments proposed by National that the Government members would not want, so that they can be included on the record of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00221faa1967b9084a63bfa8ef8d25946894\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221faa1967b9084a63bfa8ef8d25946894\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that action. Is there any objection? Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u00222aabdbf444914eb9b5bbe5aa72f4603a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222aabdbf444914eb9b5bbe5aa72f4603a\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E To make Dr Smith happier and help him even further, given he has tried three times, I seek the leave of the House to table the draft report of the Justice Committee on the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232edf7f545174438a4b63712e595164e\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: With the amendments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e7c619a4ea8406190c3bf943b5b6af9\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what the draft report was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247e146e1363f4c9986712f0726eb9dfd\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Let the member put the leave. Can you put the leave again, please?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c606e3c81e2a4b97a1d5ea6862b0f6a1\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table the draft report prepared by the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf7248088aff49199b4efbe18057baef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf7248088aff49199b4efbe18057baef\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave of the House is sought for that course of action. Is there objection? There is none. It can be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022a34d6f5ec09b4fe4a084289dcbb2d9c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a34d6f5ec09b4fe4a084289dcbb2d9c9\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s a sad day for democracy in New Zealand when we are debating legislation which will limit the freedom of speech, the freedom of association, and the freedoms of New Zealanders here in this House. This is a sad day for New Zealand\u2019s democracy. What we\u2019ve heard from the other side of the House is excuses, excuses, excuses. We all know the real reason why this legislation is being put through the House, and it\u2019s because it\u2019s all about Mr Winston Peters and a deal that he\u2019s done to try to get power and to try to protect his authority\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cc5466d59654cfd90ee30d0e21874e6\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: He can\u2019t trust his own team.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7067cf6d4ac4fc4acf768cdcbeb05a5\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and because he doesn\u2019t trust his own team. That\u2019s right, Mr Hudson. He doesn\u2019t trust his own team in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe key argument\u2014the only argument\u2014which Mr Andrew Little put forward for putting forward this bill was to protect the proportionality of Parliament. Well, the only safeguard he\u2019s put in the bill is two-thirds of a caucus. Well, I just want to remind Mr Little that he only got four other votes for his own leadership bid, so it would only work if he was the leader of the Labour Party. That\u2019s the only person it would protect\u2014him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWell, I want to remind the House of the words of the late Rod Donald, and we\u2019ve heard this: this is \u201Cthe most draconian, obnoxious, anti-democratic, insulting [piece of] legislation ever inflicted on this Parliament.\u201D All we heard from the Green Party when they got up to speak was excuses, excuses. They have sold their souls and sold their principles in voting for this piece of legislation. They have not listened to their members, and they\u2019ve come up with a whole list of reasons why they think that they are going to get policy concessions, but they\u2019ve sold their principles\u2014policy concessions, but they\u2019ve sold their principles in the process. They have no courage, they have no principles, and soon they will not even be in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis bill is an affront to democracy, and it is something which has been done in smoke-filled back rooms of Parliament, because there is nothing in the coalition document which requires the Green Party to support this piece of legislation. There\u2019s nothing. They have sought Cabinet advice, and the Cabinet advice said there is no reason under the confidence and supply agreement why they should support it. The only logical reason is there must be something in the 36-page secret document, which still hasn\u2019t been released, and it still hasn\u2019t been released because they are hiding from New Zealanders what the real intentions and real policy decisions were, which were made in smoke-filled back rooms prior to this coalition Government being put together last election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis bill is an affront to democracy, and I\u2019ve heard Mr Darroch Ball get up and try to defend it from New Zealand First\u2019s position. Well, he forgets that his own electoral record is that he received 2,155 votes at the last election\u2014612 fewer party votes than the party even got in Palmerston North, and that\u2019s probably the 612 people he met, because that\u2019s what happened in Palmerston North.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249be11ecb2864d6faac87f3c8e14c24d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: He didn\u2019t do that much work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eca5625ad8141c49e36659d89eb7a8e\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: He probably didn\u2019t do that much work. He probably met 100 people and they told six friends. That\u2019s probably what happened. The New Zealand First Party MPs are getting up to try to defend themselves, because they are trying to defend their own list position leading into the next election. They know that they are at the whim of their leader, Mr Winston Peters, who will be determining whether any of them will stay or go at the next election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation is to protect this coalition, because they know they\u2019ve only got a three-seat majority. They\u2019re scared of what might happen, and they want to stop all of these list MPs from firing off and deciding that they will do something. They\u2019ve decided that they\u2019re going to consign themselves to being bound by the leadership, bound by Winston Peters, and they\u2019re putting aside the principles, which they have sold for no policy concessions and no real gain for them. We will not be supporting this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002261152059acfb4bfe8eb17bde57c33e04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261152059acfb4bfe8eb17bde57c33e04\u0022\u003EVIRGINIA ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E What a lot of song and dance! I wouldn\u2019t be surprised if we heard that the apocalypse was coming and that a tsunami would ensue if this legislation passed. I wouldn\u2019t be surprised if the members opposite had been taking up some drama classes in their spare time, with the amount of stupid accusations that this legislation will not be bringing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s get down to the facts. What does this bill actually do? What does it actually do? Well, it protects the proportionality of Parliament, so that voters, when they vote, get what they vote for. As a list MP\u2014one that has already been called a puppet today\u2014I was elected to this House on the basis that I stood on the Labour Party\u2019s shoulders\u2014I stood upon the values that the Labour Party represents. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c00779696a9d465ead5ad4b3fcd0c6a2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Settle, members\u2014settle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9e3bf9c667d4147b45d098c44782e6b\u0022\u003EVIRGINIA ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why I am here, standing, speaking in this House today. If I should depart from those values, I should not deserve a seat in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s just say that on a Thursday night, the Hon Dr Nick Smith, the Hon Mark Mitchell, and I have a few beers and we decide we\u2019d like to start up a new party. A new party\u2014just the three of us. We\u2019d be called the \u201CFreedom of Speech Liberation Party\u201D or maybe even \u201CFeminists United\u201D\u2014you don\u2019t know. So if we start up a new party, that\u2019s fine, according to the National Party. All those people who voted for me to be here for the Labour Party would get me hanging out with the Hon Nick Smith and the Hon Mark Mitchell in a new party, with a different name. Well, I believe that that\u2019s not fair on democracy and the voters of New Zealand, and, for all the cries we\u2019ve heard about democracy, I believe that this bill furthers democracy because it ensures that the voters get what they voted for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe main criticism we\u2019ve heard today from the National Party is that this bill is an affront to freedom of speech. Isn\u2019t that funny\u2014freedom of speech. So when we had the opportunity in this House to vote on conscience for Green Party member Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s bill which would have enabled people to grow cannabis for medicinal purposes, I quite rightly remember a number of National Party members of Parliament who stood on the tiles in the morning and told me that they would be voting for that bill, because that\u2019s what they believed in. But by the p.m., when the vote was taken, they were voting against it because they\u2019d been whipped into line by their leader to do the right thing by their party. So don\u2019t tell me that this bill is going to come along and infringe freedom of speech when we don\u2019t even have it in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo what else are we going to say here? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f886af5722f45c59352d25317df23b6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Settle down, members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c653c6e823344dde98066cacd7c51048\u0022\u003EVIRGINIA ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: What is the National Party actually worried about? What is the real thing that they are so angry about in this bill that makes them stand up and take their drama classes and cry \u201CTsunami!\u201D at us today in the House? Are they genuinely concerned about freedom of speech? Are they really concerned about freedom of speech? When do we otherwise hear National Party members quoting former Green Party members in this House? Is that the real motivation under this line? I believe the real reason is that it forms part of the coalition agreement, and that\u2019s what gets under their skin. It\u2019s a symbol of the fact that they are in Opposition, and where they are a drifting, bitter, and fractionalised bunch that have grasped on to this bill in some lame sort of grief counselling for the fact of coping with being in Opposition. This is symbolic of the fact that they are in Opposition, and that\u2019s the true reason why we\u2019re hearing this barrage today in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo I would like to say that we support this bill. We support this bill in the House today because it stands for parties being represented in the House in the way they should be, and it stands for the fact that members can speak, indeed, whether they are list, whether they are electorate, or whatever they come from. If they come into this House on the back of their party, they have an obligation to the voters of New Zealand to stand by that party, and this bill delivers that result. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae0a8c7548ac4cdba6f7a7bf80f4779d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae0a8c7548ac4cdba6f7a7bf80f4779d\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E This bill is a constitutional affront. It\u2019s not just me who says that. It\u2019s not just my good colleague the Hon Dr Nick Smith who says that. Academics from around New Zealand say that, human rights experts from around New Zealand say that, and the Green Party leaders from yesteryear say that. The only party in Parliament that has consistently voted against constitutional affronts like this bill is the National Party of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI want to canvass three things in my contribution to this afternoon\u2019s debate, and I want to start with the Green Party. I want to start with the extraordinary contribution made by Golriz Ghahraman to this debate. Frankly, her speech was a disgrace to her party and an embarrassment to her predecessors in the Green Party. Let\u2019s dispel once and for all the myth that the Green Party is obliged to vote for this bill\u2014they are not. We know that because of leaked Cabinet Office advice that has come from ordinary, hard-working grassroots Green Party members that specifically says the Greens are not obliged to vote for this bill. What does their co-leader say? She says, \u201CWe are doing this because the confidence and supply agreement holds us to do it.\u201D That is wrong. We know that is wrong. The Greens should have the courage of their convictions and listen\u2014and listen\u2014to their former co-leaders. They can and they should vote against this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhat else did we hear from Miss Ghahraman? Well, we heard a lot about child poverty, and, I think, neo-liberalism\u2014the b\u00EAte noire of the left\u2014was mentioned about 45 times. We heard a lot about oil and gas. We heard a lot about housing and poverty. I\u2019ll tell you what we didn\u2019t hear much of: not much about the bill\u2014not much about the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill. Golriz Ghahraman is a human rights expert. She is fond of telling us she\u2019s worked around the world on human rights matters and she\u2019s got a constitutional law degree and all sorts of things. Heaven knows we\u2019ve heard a lot about that in the last nine months. She could not mount a single proper argument in favour of this legislation other than to say, \u201CWe\u2019ve done a deal and we\u2019ve sold our soul. We are unprincipled, and we are going to vote for this legislation.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe third point I want to make about the Greens is they will not even come down to this House and promise that they will amend the legislation or attempt to amend this legislation when it gets to the committee of the whole House stage. If they were serious about putting through this bill and making it a serious bill, they would try and amend it. My colleague Dr Nick Smith has a whole series of amendments. There were loads of amendments suggested to us by the New Zealand Law Society and by lots of groups during the select committee process. None of those amendments have been made or recommended by the Justice Committee, so there\u2019s plenty of opportunity to discuss them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThere is plenty of opportunity for us to amend this bill in the committee of the whole House stage. I note that there are constitutional scholars on Twitter and others in the public who have said they\u2019re very happy to work with the Green Party to improve the bill. One amendment, for example\u2014I\u2019ll just throw this out there during this speech. One contribution could be to amend the retrospectivity, because, as the Law Society pointed out in their contribution to the select committee, members in this Parliament were elected with this law not in place, and if it passes in this Parliament, it will, essentially, retrospectively amend the law as at 23 September 2017, when the last election was, and say that members who are not elected under one system of our government will then have to be subject to a different system. That is constitutionally repugnant as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe Greens could get rid of that easily. The New Zealand National Party\u2014I\u2019m not the spokesperson, but I am confident in saying, because my colleague Nick Smith\u2019s nodding at me\u2014we would support that. Another thing that we would support is the ability to give judicial review, and that brings me to the second part of my speech, which is about human rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhy is judicial review important? I\u2019ll tell you why. It\u2019s important because one of the reasons why the Attorney-General has certified to Parliament that the bill complies with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act is because there is the ability for judicial review to be taken. The New Zealand Law Society rightly pointed out in their contribution to the select committee that the Attorney-General\u2019s New Zealand Bill of Rights Act analysis says that members can be not \u201C\u00A0\u2018subject to a capricious or unreasonable exercise of the measures they are not left without remedy\u2019 as they could apply to the High Court for judicial review.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EJudicial review is very important. Basically, it\u2019s the only reason why the Attorney-General has concluded that the bill is consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. However, the Law Society also made a number of very serious points to the committee. It is very doubtful that judicial review is actually available. Why do they say that? Well, in the only case decided under previous iterations of this legislation\u2014Prebble v Awatere Huata\u2014three judges in the Supreme Court expressly left the question open as to whether or not judicial review applied. Now, the parties in Prebble v Awatere Huata assumed that judicial review was available, and so the court, therefore, didn\u2019t have to decide it. They just accepted that it was available. But, the Chief Justice expressly noted that it was at least arguable that such a decision was not reviewable or was only reviewable on limited grounds. Justice Gault said it was difficult to see the content of a notification under section 55D as reviewable, and Justice Keith made similar comments\u2014three judges out of five, that\u2019s a majority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhy else is it arguable? They also expressly left open the question of whether or not parliamentary privilege prevented the courts inquiring into what goes on in Parliament, and the courts\u2014in the case of cases like Prebble v Awatere Huata, and in the cases that may be yet to come\u2014would have to consider voting records. They may have to consider caucus deliberations. They may have to consider what goes on in this place. In this Parliament, we are jealous, and we are keen to protect our privileges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe other point to make about parliamentary privilege is that Prebble v Awatere Huata was decided before the passing of the Parliamentary Privilege Act 2014, which has significantly tightened the law around what the courts can and can\u2019t inquire into in this Parliament. The Law Society made all these points. They are important points, because if judicial review is not available, then the remedy that mitigates the harm done to a member\u2019s rights in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act is not dealt to. Therefore, the harm accrues to the member and makes it an unjustified limit on the rights that he or she enjoys.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhat rights am I talking about? I\u2019m talking about freedom of association and freedom of speech. It was a former justice of the Supreme Court in the case of Hosking v Ranting that made the point that freedom of expression is the first and last trench in the protection of liberty. It is, in some ways, one of the most important rights that we enjoy. It is particularly important for members of Parliament, and particularly electorate MPs, to be able to express, freely and frankly, the concerns of their constituents, because their mandate does not belong to party leaders. This is the critical point. The mandate that is given to members in this House does not derive from their party leaders; it derives from the people, and it derives from their votes. So human rights are extremely important in this debate. The analysis that I\u2019m putting forward to the House that the Law Society offered is very important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhat engagement did we have with this on the select committee? Well, we attempted to get to the bottom of this very important issue. We asked the Ministry of Justice to provide legal analysis. That was declined by Labour members. We unanimously resolved to invite the Attorney-General and Crown Law to come to the select committee and explain, but that never happened. The Human Rights Commission expressed grave concerns about the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act content of this bill, and various other legal experts did as well. I\u2019ll tell you something very interesting. If you go to the Crown Law and Ministry of Justice websites, you will find the underlying legal analysis in relation to section 7 reports that have been made or not made by the Attorney-General to Parliament. The only example you will find of a section 7 underlying legal analysis being replaced by the Attorney-General\u2019s own interpretation is in relation to the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill. That says everything about this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00228a0e00552ac142a4b638fe65d1604d67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a0e00552ac142a4b638fe65d1604d67\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to rise in support of the second reading of this Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill. I do just want to say one thing in opening, because I think it\u2019s important to get some things on the record, and that relates to the fact that Crown Law was indeed invited to come and speak to the Justice Committee but it did decline that invitation. It had a very good reason for doing so: Crown Law had given advice to the Government in respect of this bill, and, as legal adviser, it would have been entirely inappropriate for them to come to the committee. The only thing they could have said is, \u201CThe advice that we have given is privileged and we can\u2019t go further into it.\u201D That would have been an absolutely meaningless thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EHowever, I want to turn to the bill, because I think it\u2019s important to remember that the debates that happen here are significant. Whilst we can bicker amongst ourselves, people who want to know what is intended by this legislation listen to what goes on. I think that a lot of what has been said here is quite inaccurate. If we do look at the purpose of the bill, we see that the purpose is to maintain proportionality\u2014to ensure that what people voted for is the Government that they actually get. Then, from that principle, we can look at the rest of the legislation. In fact, there is some scaremongering that\u2019s gone on that there are no checks and balances here. That\u2019s not true at all. In fact, if we look at what has to happen before a seat is vacated under this legislation, there are checks upon checks upon checks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt is simply not accurate to say that the leader of a political party can dismiss a member, and it\u2019s quite pernicious for that to be said in this House. In fact, the first thing that has to happen is that the party has to expel the person\u2014not the parliamentary party, but the party itself. We can look at the bill and see that in clause 5, section 55A(2), requires that \u201Cthe member of Parliament ceases to be a parliamentary member of the political party for which the member of Parliament was elected.\u201D If we go further, to section 55D(d)(i), we see that the leader has to warrant \u201Cthat all other requirements imposed by the rules of the political party for which the member of Parliament was elected relating to the giving of a notice \u2026 have been satisfied;\u201D. So what we have there is a political procedure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow the interesting thing\u2014and Mr Bishop delved into Prebble v Awatere Huata and that suggested that it might not be amenable to judicial review. He\u2019s quite right to ask the question, but he\u2019s quite wrong in his answer. If we go back a bit further, we can see that judicial review of political parties was well recognised in Peters v Colling back in 1993. Now, that was a case where Mr Peters was not selected\u2014strangely, if I may say so\u2014for the Tauranga seat by the National Party. They probably rue the day they ever did that. But whilst the judge there said that the internal workings of the party weren\u2019t reviewable and that what the rules were and how they chose to organise themselves weren\u2019t renewable, whether the rules were adhered to is reviewable, and that\u2019s a really, really important distinction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f7cbb534a8a485fb24c48f86461c630\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s completely\u2014no, it\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a55161935b245d98287c65517e873a6\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: So where there are rules about how the party determines its own membership\u2014rule 12 for you, Mr Bishop, so you better look out for that one. For you, it\u2019s your regional council and your board that decide whether you\u2019re in or out, but that is a reviewable question because it is about rule adherence. In fact, in Awatere Huata itself, the question was left open.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226eca3ed5de084fd78a34c1f72244aaf5\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de8c8bb8834f444595a31eb3f9cb349b\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: The parties there\u2014I accept your point, Mr Bishop. It was left open, but both parties\u2019 senior counsel there accepted two really important things\u2014accepted them as unarguable\u2014first, that the question was amenable to judicial review, and, second, that there was no question of privilege involved. So that\u2019s actually at the first\u2014party\u2014stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThen we get the second protection, a really important protection\u2014that this matter has to go to caucus, and two-thirds of caucus have to agree. Now, I think we need to recognise that members in every party of this House are pretty robust. They don\u2019t lie down and just take someone else\u2019s opinion. So to persuade two-thirds of the party that something has gone badly wrong is significant. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3e30cdf5328499a841e2dea3ef1a3b6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I\u2019d like to hear the end of this speech, please. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224288ab130e194279b2712362dff9ac60\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, Madam Assistant Speaker. And we must remember, of course, that the leader has to be satisfied that the actions of the member have distorted and will continue to distort proportionality in Parliament. Now, what Awatere Huata does say is that that can be broadly interpreted. It doesn\u2019t simply mean how they voted in the House, but, importantly, it\u2019s forward-looking. It\u2019s not just what they\u2019ve done in the past; it\u2019s how they behave in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe further and additional protection is the notice to be given to that member. It\u2019s essentially a warning shot. The member is given a notice saying \u201CI think that you\u2019ve behaved in a way which distorts Parliament. What have you got to say about it? What are you going to do about it?\u201D, so the member then has a choice. They can do what some would say they should and resign, if that\u2019s what their conscience dictates. They can go through this process, or they can go to their party and say \u201CI recant. I agree that I have distorted proportionality. It won\u2019t happen again.\u201D, in which case there\u2019s no basis for any notice to be given to the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other concern that was raised\u2014another important concern\u2014is the relationship between this and parliamentary privilege. The Parliamentary Privilege Act sets out what parliamentary privilege is, and it\u2019s a critical part of this House. But what\u2019s going on in respect of that party, in respect of the party members and its membership, is very clearly not a parliamentary proceeding. It is not subject to and does not attract the privilege of this House. That is what the Parliamentary Counsel Office has said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI have read the Parliamentary Privilege Act and if we look at what a parliamentary proceeding is, it is set out in section 10(1). It is \u201Cwords spoken and acts done in the course of, or for purposes of or incidental to, the business of the House\u201D, and the membership of a caucus is not something that is critical to the conduct of business in this House. It\u2019s not a parliamentary proceeding and, therefore, it does not attract that privilege. What that means is it is subject to the ordinary courts of the land, so that proceeding is subject to the ordinary proceedings of the land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe fact of the matter is that we have a mixed-member proportional system. People go to the ballot and they cast that critical vote for the Government that they want. The current system is such that there can be aberrations in that if we get people changing their party allegiances midstream. Democracy does not stand still. This is a development which is needed to make sure that the will of the people is adhered to in this Parliament. The people of New Zealand deserve the Government they voted for, not some Government that individual members have constructed themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe fact is there remains plenty of scope for members to act within their conscience, to promote their views, and to advocate for their electorates. In fact, they would be remiss if they did not do that. We, however, have to act in accordance with our own conscience. Electoral integrity involves not only proportionality\u2014how one votes in the House\u2014it also involves loyalty to one\u2019s electorate and also courage to adhere to one\u2019s conscience, and this legislation embraces and upholds all of those principles. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c0d26aa452d14f75b707682f30a88088\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d28b53b411a64edf99f565123af7e41b\u0022\u003EOverseas Investment Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022205775871d294b2286f1a30fff09ccc3\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000481\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 1 August.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a230aa6c34c94354a648dfb7a156beed\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments relating to consent and conditions regime for overseas investments in sensitive New Zealand assets (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022881a738e9dc24199a88a5677c1f84462\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022881a738e9dc24199a88a5677c1f84462\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, when we were last considering the bill, we were debating the question that Part 2 stand part. The Hon Gerry Brownlee was speaking and has four minutes and 42 seconds remaining should he wish to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022418920cff6764ed7bc16b8af56307961\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022418920cff6764ed7bc16b8af56307961\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I do wish to take this time. This, as I was saying as we came to a conclusion last night, is the part in the bill that fills out the substance of what is intended in the bill, in a legislative sense. But it kind of misses the effects that the bill might have on the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo the first thing is that I would assert that there is enough leeway in this bill for anyone who really wants to buy land in New Zealand but does not qualify by way of being a resident to drive a bus right through the middle of it. There are ways in which there can be a manipulation of the Government\u2019s other policies, and, most particularly, their forestry policy, that could see people buy the properties they want. So let\u2019s be clear: forestry blocks are allowed up to 1,000 hectares. So where are the best properties with the highest value in New Zealand? They\u2019re generally at the lake\u2019s edge, generally at the seaside, or generally in some well-respected, well-loved, inner-city suburb. Most of those will have various restrictions because of the fact you can\u2019t aggregate policy there. But if it is a rural policy somewhere in the Queenstown district, or if it is anywhere up and down the coastline\u2014perhaps Northland\u2014and there is sufficient land nearby to put in a forestry operation, the law specifically says it\u2019s OK to have a dwelling there, to superintend the forestry operation, and it won\u2019t be hard for people to put planting programmes in place that ensure that the property can be onsold to the highest bidder from offshore in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo it doesn\u2019t do what it sets out to do. But what it can do is see some of the more productive land in New Zealand taken away from cash production on an annual basis and put into production that might be some 30 years out, in forestry\u2014unless, of course, they do something clever, like plant some pine nuts, for example. These are a small pine tree; it\u2019s called the stone pine. They grow to about 5 or 6 metres in five years, and they\u2019re productive within that time. Now, of course, I don\u2019t think Mr Jones thought that this would work, but I\u2019m not sure that that would be excluded as a horticultural product. It is, after all, a pine, and it would be a forest. But the goal of somehow creating a massive carbon sink from trees that, after five years, only grow about 300 millimetres a year is completely lost, and also the chance that trees that height might block those pristine views of the ocean or the lake or wherever it is that their plantation goes is not high. But it further serves to recognise the nonsense of not encouraging horticultural investment in this country, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen there\u2019s the opportunity to build, inside cities, apartment buildings. People are quite welcome to come in and build these apartment buildings and even hold the ownership of those apartment buildings, becoming a foreign landlord in New Zealand\u2014all permissible in this bill; all permissible in a bill that\u2019s apparently going to stop foreign ownership of land in New Zealand and make New Zealanders the tenants in those apartment buildings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo we think, Madam Speaker, that this is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294b0fe15dbcc484e9a1598ad9b553353\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b5581678a7d45a3a733e1b9eacd7f8d\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014once again\u2014my apologies, my apologies. We think, Mr Chair, that this is a bill that just like the last one that the House was discussing before we got to this, is one of those \u201Cpay-the-piper\u201D exercises\u2014the cost of having New Zealand First in the right place at the right time. The problem is it will put huge pressure on the economy. We\u2019ve seen building companies collapse in the last 48 hours, and there\u2019ll be more. And that\u2019s because of the tightness of being able to get capital. So I haven\u2019t even begun to speak\u2014and my colleagues who follow me will\u2014about the restrictions on business activity in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022495b9f7a284147f984712b00a958d200\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022495b9f7a284147f984712b00a958d200\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I rise to speak to clause 19(d), which inserts schedule 3 of this bill, and, in particular, I wish to speak to a series of SOPs\u2014Supplementary Order Papers\u2014introduced by the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ecc8e6ac545453ba9efb8959cf5d4f3\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s a \u201CSOP\u201D, dear?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4040d421aac4cbfb1e10ad29f297f11\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: The \u201CSOP\u201D, a slop, a slip, a slither, a slew, a slaw\u2014a veritable salad of SOPs indicating that all they want to do is mess with the House. Let me read you one of the amendments that have been introduced by the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe amendment introduced by the Rt Hon David Carter talks about horticulture. He wants to introduce an exemption in respect of horticulture. And on the very same form\u2014the very same form, virtually the very same words\u2014the Hon Alfred Ngaro wishes to introduce an exemption in respect of bananas. Simeon Brown wants one in respect of m\u0101nuka. Chris Penk wants on in respect of apples. These are all the same. Chris Penk goes on to strawberries. Todd Muller is going for kiwifruit. Melissa Lee is cabbage, Judith Collins is blueberries, Matt King is blackberries, Simon O\u2019Connor is tamarillos, Jian Yang is gooseberries, and Simeon Brown is here again, on mandarins. Maureen Pugh has hops, Louise Upston has lavender, Jacqui Dean has nectarines, and more to come from Jacqui Dean: it\u2019s apricots. Jacqui Dean can\u2019t stop there\u2014swedes. Lawrence Yule is interested in fajitas, Dan Bidois has raspberries and then he has tulips\u2014perhaps he\u2019s tip-toeing through them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI can understand why the Hon Gerry Brownlee gave the last speech: he\u2019s keen on pine nuts. Simon O\u2019Connor is interested in grapes and also in almonds. Jonathan Young is interested in exotic edible mushrooms. There is Jonathan Young, again, on plums. Tim van de Molen is interested in corn and also in maize. Matt Doocey is into quinoa and also into beans and also into peaches. Denise Lee favours cherries and lentils\u2014that\u2019s not a good mix, Denise Lee. Melissa Lee\u2019s amendment has at least something pretty going for it\u2014it\u2019s sunflowers, but also flax. Denise Lee is back with pears and olives; Hamish Walker has wheat and oats; the Hon Judith Collins has sorghum, sometimes pronounced \u201Csour gum\u201D; Paul Goldsmith has barley\u2014and on it goes. Paul Goldsmith also has rye; Andrew Bayly has potatoes and hemp\u2014what is Andrew\u2019s interest in hemp?\u2014and hard nuts, not pine nuts. David Bennett\u2014ah, that\u2019s not horticulture; he\u2019s going to move on to equine bloodstock. Good on him. But David Bennett also has canola\u2014a healthy man is David Bennett\u2014and peanuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EA mix, a melange, a mess\u2014I suggest that the Opposition is messing with the committee, messing with this bill. They are not interested in actually debating the substance of this bill. This is simply a way to delay progress, and one can only suggest that they should eat their salad, not present it to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00226bdbabe9f21b4acfa094015a32a3e952\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bdbabe9f21b4acfa094015a32a3e952\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chairman, for the opportunity. I listened to the speech from Deborah Russell, and she listed all the possibilities for exemptions that were tabled, but, in her short speech, she didn\u2019t give one valid reason why we shouldn\u2019t accept them. So I ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Ron Mark, whether he could explain to this committee why we are making an exemption for forestry. As the Minister thinks about his answer to that, I\u2019m going to help him with his answer, because I know the answer. The issue is the bill was so rushed and ill-prepared in the hands of the Hon David Parker. It was about stopping foreign investment, because the other side of the Chamber does not like foreigners investing in this country. Then the Hon Shane Jones finally, at the eleventh hour, realised that this would stop his forestry programme from planting a billion trees each year. So they\u2019ve rushed in this Supplementary Order Paper 19, which has suddenly made a grand exemption for forestry, and yet for nothing else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo I want the Hon Ron Mark to stand on his feet and tell us why, and justify why we\u2019ve got an exemption for forestry, because I don\u2019t see any reason why it should be only forestry. I\u2019ve got an amendment, as Deborah Russell pointed out, for horticulture. Why can\u2019t we welcome foreign investment in horticulture when the Hon Shane Jones wants to welcome foreign investment for forestry? So I look forward to that answer from Mr Mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe second question I have for the Hon Ron Mark\u2014and this is after an intervention by the Hon David Parker last night, when he said that this bill is here so we can drive down the price of houses. I want to know from the Hon Ron Mark how much they intend driving down the price of houses. I can tell him that if they drive down the house prices in cities like Christchurch and Wellington and Auckland, there will be a lot of people who will be very quickly in zero equity. A lot of people in recent years have struggled to buy their first house; they\u2019ve mortgaged themselves to the hilt, leaving them not a lot of margin of equity. If Ron Mark and this Labour - New Zealand First - Greens Government is intent on driving down the price of housing, I warn him today that he\u2019s going to face a backlash from voters that will, at least, have one desirable effect: make sure we don\u2019t have to put up with New Zealand First in the 53rd Parliament of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe last point I want the Hon Ron Mark on his feet for is to provide an answer to me around rural proofing, the new concept in the House today at question time from the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor. He gave a guarantee that all legislation advanced by the Labour Government would be rural proofed, and I want to know how this piece of legislation has been rural proofed, because I suspect it hasn\u2019t. If it\u2019s been rural proofed, then the first thing the Ministry for Primary Industries should have picked up is that the real estate value of farms has now been lessened by this legislation. Previously, there was a market where international buyers could have a look at buying a farm. They then went through a rigorous Overseas Investment Office process, and, ultimately, they had to prove net benefit to New Zealand. That\u2019s good legislation, modified by the National Government, and it stood the test of time, but what you\u2019ve got now is the effective elimination of those foreign buyers. For any farmer who\u2019s heading towards retirement years, about to consider putting his farm on the market, I can tell the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor that this legislation will affect the price that retiring farmer gets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo I want to know what process it went through with rural proofing. We\u2019ve heard the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor in question time saying every policy and piece of legislation will be rural proofed\u2014well, let\u2019s hear it today from the Minister now in the chair, the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00220644a252a57540408ed1c33ae477f63c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220644a252a57540408ed1c33ae477f63c\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of State for Trade and Export Growth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I\u2019m very pleased to take the opportunity to answer some of the questions put forward by the previous speaker, David Carter. No, this piece of legislation has not been rural proofed. We are going through a thorough process of implementing this, because what happened last time in Government\u2014we did rush to get it in place, it wasn\u2019t entrenched, and then the National Government threw it out. In spite of being the so-called champions of rural New Zealand, they threw out rural proofing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to take the committee\u2019s time for too long, other than to say no, it hasn\u2019t been covered in this legislation, but if it was, I\u2019d have to say that I\u2019m sure the vast majority of rural New Zealanders would actually support this, because the one thing that they are most concerned about across rural New Zealand is succession. Succession is not transferring a New Zealand farm into foreign hands; it\u2019s actually transferring it into the hands of another keen New Zealand family. The National Party, as it always does, just wants to sell\u2014sell, sell, sell, sell\u2014and give all their mates an opportunity to clip the ticket along the way. Frankly, we are here for New Zealanders, and this piece of legislation is unashamedly for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAround the world\u2014that previous Government may not have realised\u2014there are trillions of dollars slushing around. A lot of it\u2019s just been printed, actually, and if you can get a 1 percent return on your money somewhere, you\u2019re very lucky. So the opportunity to bring that money into New Zealand, where there\u2019s currently no capital gains tax and where, you know, you can get 5 or 6 percent for your money, is just a goldmine, literally, for them, at the expense of hard-working New Zealanders and farming families. So I have to say that, in defending and answering some of the questions, we\u2019re unashamedly for New Zealand farming families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe previous member and his colleagues might want to sell every farm to foreigners; we don\u2019t. Quite frankly, we don\u2019t, and we don\u2019t want those foreigners to set unrealistic values based on them paying 1 percent for their capital when poor, challenged, hard-working Kiwis have to pay 5 or 6 or 7 percent for their money. We just want succession in the rural sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to take too much time in the committee, but I hope that answers the previous speaker\u2019s question. We are unashamedly for New Zealanders, not for foreign investors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00221282f27370494007bba15d12a5d61ea1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221282f27370494007bba15d12a5d61ea1\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just in response to Minister Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s statements about being in favour of New Zealanders but not in favour of foreign investment, he seems to have forgotten that the whole economic history of this country has been built on foreign investment over many, many decades. If we want to grow and have jobs and opportunities for New Zealanders, that requires somebody to make an investment, either to start a new business, plant a new set of trees, plant a new bit of horticulture, hire a new person\u2014take a risk. It requires somebody investing. Now, if we want to rely on our domestic savings, that\u2019s fine, but we\u2019ll grow very slowly because there\u2019s not many of them. If we want to grow faster, we import capital, as we have over many, many decades, and that is why this bill is so dangerous for the economic prospects of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI also wanted to respond to the comments from Mr Jones the last time this bill was before the committee a couple of days ago, where he talked about why forestry was exempted from this bill in Part 2, as we\u2019re discussing at the moment. Mr Jones\u2014this is the same Mr Jones who doesn\u2019t like being asked pesky questions about his involvement in the Provincial Growth Fund. He gave a long and detailed speech about why it\u2019s important to shrink red tape for the forestry sector, and that was what he was going to go about doing. He\u2019s going to shrink the red tape through this piece of legislation, and he also waxed lyrical about the need for investment in forestry. The thing that was left hanging was: what is so unique about the forestry sector that that needs to enjoy the shrinking of red tape but every other sector of the economy does not, whether it\u2019s housing, all manner of other primary produce, whether it\u2019s golf resorts and tourism spots\u2014all those other things that benefit from investment and can provide jobs and growth? Somehow, that same logic doesn\u2019t apply, and I think most New Zealanders are scratching their heads and trying to figure out what is so special about forestry. The obvious answer to that is it is something promoted by New Zealand First, and this is a political jack-up that\u2019s been dealt with in this Government in an unseemly way. No normal Government would get away with legislation that is so unprincipled as this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s always a good place to start to go back to the regulatory impact statement, and I dug this out because that\u2019s where Treasury officials have the opportunity to have a look at the draft legislation and just check some basic questions about how it was developed and how it\u2019s put together. In this regulatory impact statement, the first thing Treasury says is it was done very quickly in order to fit the time frames of the 100-day plan. That has meant that there has not been any opportunity to consult with private sector organisations or the general public to inform the development of this policy. Well, that\u2019s obvious, because we\u2019ve seen that there has been, certainly, no involvement from the population. Then it asks whether there was a range of options considered, and the answer to that is, well, no\u2014because of the Government\u2019s commitment to a specific policy, no other housing policy measures or wider overseas investment regime issues were raised or discussed. And then, thirdly, the assumption underpinning this impact analysis was that it was constrained by a lack of empirical data, including around current levels of overseas investment. So, basically, the only conclusion you can draw from the regulatory impact statement is that Treasury completely washed their hands of this bill and would have nothing to do with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo the question that I have for the Minister in the chair, Damien O\u2019Connor, is: has there been any further analysis asked for from Treasury as a result of the many detailed recommendations of the Finance and Expenditure Committee in terms of the costs and benefits of this part that we\u2019re dealing with at the moment and the exemption of forestry? Has there been any further work done, and has there been any subsequent effort on behalf of Treasury, particularly in the regulatory impact unit, to try and get a better understanding of what we\u2019re dealing with here in this particular part?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, I have a couple of amendments relating to \u201CIf it\u2019s good enough for forestry, why is it not good enough for barley and for rye?\u201D, and I\u2019d be interested in the Minister\u2019s views on that. He\u2019s a man of the soil, and he\u2019ll understand that we all need our barley sugars and that those particular crops are important to New Zealand. There is a logic that Shane Jones explained to the committee that we do need to have investment from around the world in order to grow our economy and we want to be slashing red tape so that people can get on with it and make the investment and draw upon global pools of capital. It\u2019s good enough for\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022 data-id=\u0022650f9b3a28704f698ef37b51f1727e5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022650f9b3a28704f698ef37b51f1727e5f\u0022\u003EMATT KING (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. First of all, I\u2019d like to acknowledge the poor, suffering officials over there, especially under the regime they\u2019re under at the moment, but I\u2019d like to acknowledge the work that they\u2019ve done. The Overseas Investment Amendment Bill: what a dog of a bill\u2014a flea-infested, tick-ridden, mangy dog of a bill. Nothing surprises me. This is classic poor bill-making\u2014ad hoc, piecemeal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve heard from the other side of the Chamber the often-repeated phrase that we have the highest homelessness in the OECD. Do you really believe that of all of the OECD we have the highest homelessness? The infamous Nazi Joseph Goebbels said \u201CTell a lie once, it\u2019s still a lie; tell it a thousand times, it becomes the truth.\u201D, and I think they\u2019re trying to cover that philosophy. Countries have different definitions of what homelessness is. The Japanese are the lowest end of the homelessness scale. They have 0.04 percent homelessness. That\u2019s one of the lowest in the OECD, because their definition of homelessness is rough sleepers. Now, if you used that definition, we\u2019re at 0.04 percent, down at the bottom with Japan. So that myth that we have the highest homelessness in the OECD\u2014that is exactly what it is: it\u2019s a myth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003ENow, these kinds of statements are made by this coalition Government all the time. This bill is reactive legislation\u2014no analysis. There\u2019s no evidence that foreign investment increases house prices, and this bill doesn\u2019t work overseas, so why would it work here? This bill is full of random exceptions. For example, in Queenstown, foreigners can buy an apartment; they just can\u2019t live in it. In Singapore, it breaches the trade agreement with them, so they\u2019re an exemption. This is full of loopholes. Ministers have the power to grant exemptions for whole classes. They could grant an exemption for all of the urban houses. In the bill, it says in new section 61C, inserted by clause 33A, \u201Cany transaction, person, interest, right, or assets \u2026 from the requirement for consent or from the definition of overseas [person] or associate or associated land.\u201D Now, I don\u2019t know about the rest of us, but I don\u2019t want Government Ministers having that power. This will create a field day for lawyers seeking exemptions for their clients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EForestry has an exemption: 72 percent of our forests are foreign-owned. Why not viticulture, agriculture, horticulture? This is full of unintended consequences. They saw that the telecommunications and the power companies\u2014some of them are partly foreign-owned\u2014would have to go through the Overseas Investment Office, so they carved out an exemption. But what about the developers of retirement homes? It doesn\u2019t work overseas, and it won\u2019t work here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003ENow, this Te \u0100rai case\u2014that\u2019s a case in point. That stinks to high heaven. The Minister was doing backflips in the House a few weeks ago trying to explain this decision. No amount of cartwheels will explain away that faux pas. Last year, former MP for Northland Winston Peters said, \u201CWhy do Kiwis, going about their lives as best they can, have to fight every step of the way to preserve what is their right against a billionaire developer from another country and a complicit Government?\u201D And you know what? Now he\u2019s in Government, he\u2019s doing exactly that. All I can say is thank God for the Speaker shutting this down. I\u2019ve come to expect this from this coalition Government. The bar has been lowered\u2014has never been so low. Lift your game; otherwise, you\u2019re going to be gone in 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb3e0f05fffc458cad0ec6145dfbc630\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb3e0f05fffc458cad0ec6145dfbc630\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Assistant Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022fae57c4d151a44ceaed1989ac2c189d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fae57c4d151a44ceaed1989ac2c189d8\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s an absolute pleasure. I want to talk mainly about clause 10(1)(b) and its subparagraphs, but before I move on to that, I just want to reflect for a moment on the contribution from the Hon Shane Jones earlier in this debate, which a couple of my colleagues have also touched upon today, because I think it was really quite remarkable what he was really saying. In trying to justify why there should be exemptions and exclusions to allow large slices of land to be carved off for foreign-owned forestry investment, he is really categorising and characterising what New Zealand First has become in Government. For a party that campaigned upon being all about New Zealanders, it instead is all about foreigners, because Mr Jones is talking about the ability to use the Provincial Growth Fund to help to provide incentives for foreign companies to invest in forestry in New Zealand. That is $3 billion of taxpayers\u2019 money, $3 billion that comes from the sweat of the brows of hard-working Kiwi taxpayers, and he wants to give a huge chunk of that to foreigners\u2014hardly putting New Zealand first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EBut I do want to actually talk about\u2014because this part of the bill is actually where the ideology that sits beneath this legislation shines through, and nowhere is it more clear than in clause 10(1)(b) and its subparagraphs, because what they show is the Minister responsible for this bill in his full Marxist flight. One speaker last night was accused of being socialist, where they seek to grab the means of production. Well, this goes so much further than this, because this clause and the subparagraphs expropriate the property of New Zealanders without compensation, and I\u2019ll explain how it does that. It expropriates the property by expropriating, in part, the maximal value that a New Zealander could realise on their property, by introducing, first, a new category that didn\u2019t exist, which means that all residential land not otherwise sensitive is captured under the provision and has a set of criteria that determines who that property can be sold to\u2014criteria that does not exist for such land today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EIn a stroke of the pen and with the ink in creating this bill, the Government is taking from hard-working New Zealanders\u2014New Zealanders that work, in some cases, for 20 or 25 years to pay off the mortgages on their properties\u2014their right to sell that property to the person who is prepared to give them the most for it, and, today, they can. Today, New Zealanders live and go to work and live on those properties knowing that they can sell it to the person that will give them the most value. Those members can\u2019t argue to oppose that, particularly New Zealand First, but other Government members\u2014not only before they took those benches but since they\u2019ve been in Government\u2014have tried to tell New Zealanders that it\u2019s foreigners that are coming in and bidding up the price of houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, the stats actually don\u2019t show that. The data from Land Information New Zealand actually gives the lie to that statement, but they\u2019ll make the statement none the less, and what they\u2019re doing here is they are preventing New Zealanders from realising the full value of their property investments. That is an expropriation of that property. I ask this committee: where else in the world do they do that? Where? Where do they expropriate property without compensation? They\u2019ve done it for years in Zimbabwe. This is a full-on Mugabe moment. But it\u2019s worse. It\u2019s not just Zimbabwe. If you were reading the news reports yesterday, the Marxist faction inside the African National Congress\u2014if you go to South Africa, they\u2019re going to be doing this, as well. So New Zealand\u2019s going to join the ranks\u2014the illustrious ranks\u2014of the new South Africa and Zimbabwe in this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EShould we be surprised? Shocked, yes, but should we be surprised? No, because immediately before this discussion, we were discussing\u2014and, in fact, passed a second reading of\u2014another bill which is also shared by Zimbabwe, the ability for a party leader to dismiss errant members of Parliament. We\u2019re going down that track very quickly\u2014very quickly\u2014and it\u2019s an absolute disgrace that members remain in this House. When they go back to their electorates, where they\u2019re electorate MPs or list MPs, look into the eyes of a constituent and say to them why it\u2019s good for them that you can expropriate their property, because that\u2019s what you\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThis is a disgrace. I actually welcome all of the Government members to go out and tell New Zealanders that what they\u2019re doing to them is a good thing, because it most certainly isn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf0b1d5060ae41289391d40504c4576b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf0b1d5060ae41289391d40504c4576b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I give the next\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236b2d469f08c4703ab43727e8b4b072a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Communist!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280e08dc1dd54476f8e9080a11f6c46dd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me. Before I give the next call to the Hon Jacqui Dean, I just want to remind members, after that speech, that we are dealing with Part 2 of the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill. Members have been drifting into other bills before the House, and as the sole decision maker around relevance, I\u2019m advising members that if they have new arguments to this part, they ought to bring them out now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecf63827d05e417086c28fd8a57837f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecf63827d05e417086c28fd8a57837f1\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you. I too have been perusing the regulatory impact statement for this ill-considered and ill-founded bill and also noted the clauses that were brought to the committee\u2019s attention by the Hon Paul Goldsmith, but I want to go over them again because they really are quite damning of this piece of work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo the first comment is around \u201CKey Limitations or Constraints on Analysis\u201D. In the development of a bill, analysis and consultation with private sector and consultation with the public, with industry experts, and with colleagues is, I would have thought, a critical part of the development of any decent piece of legislation, particularly one as far-reaching and important as this one. The regulatory impact analysis notes\u2014Treasury note\u2014that \u201CThe key limitations and constraints applying to this analysis are as follows:\u201D, and so right up at the front there, Treasury are saying that there are limitations and there are constraints. So this is not a good start to any Cabinet\u2019s consideration of a significant piece of legislation that comes before them in the Cabinet room.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u201CTime constraints: Ministers have directed officials to prepare this policy within the timeframes of the 100 day plan.\u201D Fair enough\u2014every incoming Government has its goals. \u201CAccordingly, this analysis has been prepared under tight time constraints. This has meant that there has not been any opportunity\u201D\u2014any opportunity\u2014\u201Cto consult with [the] private sector organizations or [to consult with] the general public to inform the development of this policy.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo, in other words, Treasury are saying\u2014just as the Hon Paul Goldsmith noted\u2014that the Government and Treasury have not had time and not had the opportunity to take New Zealand along with them on this very significant piece of legislation. No time to do it; no consultation with the public or industry experts\u2014well, how does that make for good decision-making by Cabinet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo we go on: \u201CRange of options considered:\u201D\u2014really important, and Treasury does this very comprehensively, normally. They weigh up the options, because there are always options in the development of a piece of legislation. \u201CThis analysis\u201D, they go on to say, \u201Chas been constrained by the Government\u2019s commitment to implement this specific policy.\u201D So, in other words, the Government has identified this specific policy in their minds\u2014housing affordability\u2014and all the work in this bill has to lead to that goal. OK\u2014fair enough. \u201CAs such, no other housing policy measures (for example policies that would support the broader objective of increasing the supply of residential property)\u201D\u2014so, in other words, they didn\u2019t actually look at any options; they just looked straight down the line at the end and aimed their policy work in that direction. No wonder Treasury are backing away and saying, \u201CWell, you know, we didn\u2019t have time\u2014not our problem.\u201D, which, actually, is what the Government is tending to do themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ENor did Treasury have the opportunity to look at \u201Cwider overseas investment regime issues\u201D. They haven\u2019t been analysed and they haven\u2019t been evaluated, so we\u2019re going to do the work for them. We\u2019re very happy to do that in recognition of the importance of the agricultural economy in New Zealand. So it is fortunate, in a sense, I guess, that this exemption for forestry development has given us an opportunity\u2014and I know that the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor is going to thank me for this\u2014to widen the net of exemptions so that other aspects of the economy can have those exemptions under this bill, under this Act, to allow for overseas investment in their particular sectors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to get very parochial here, and I\u2019m going to now address my amendment which provides for \u201CExemptions in respect of overseas investments in sensitive land involving apricots\u201D. Now, one of the members from over the other side of the Chamber helpfully ran through all the amendments which our members have tabled, and, obviously, having raised them and shown an interest in them, we are very happy and willing to speak to them. So, first of all, I\u2019d like to address the issues of apricots\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022145c5b9335184437a35c224beedaf3f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022145c5b9335184437a35c224beedaf3f3\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a83ceacb06484b43a8c539a5aab853b4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000535\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 52 in the name of the Hon David Parker to Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e6d8f47c6afb4f95aeee5cdbc68ad996\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000536\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Stuart Smith to clause 12 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000537\u0022\u003Einsert after subclause (2) the following new subclause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000538\u0022\u003E(3)\tIn section 17(2) insert \u201Csection 17(2)(h): These factors should be considered in light of any other offers received, including international and domestic affairs.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002225fd1b9bea3a47fcb4f9efb93283d4f0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226c80996c3d574cccb7d71a0158bfffe9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d44d39c9d9146a48269af048aa116c9\u0022\u003EPart 3  Enforcement and other miscellaneous matters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00228d71f72a8cb641028c0ec7e48b975e0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d71f72a8cb641028c0ec7e48b975e0e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and when it comes to Part 3 of this bill, it is important that we have a long debate on that since it was such a short debate on Part 2, which was an important\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221e43d202cd547d8aa57dee306079da2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I am on my feet. It is inappropriate for any member to question the decision of the Chair to accept a closure motion. I accepted it, and it is not to be commented on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9565d910556426c8669a8fd8aac1fc4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Part 3. Very sensitive day today, isn\u2019t it, because we\u2019ve had two parts\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a380a9f843a1453084f52b3be1553513\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Sit down. And you\u2019re not allowed to comment on a ruling that I\u2019ve just made. That\u2019s two. Don\u2019t do it again. Third time, I will terminate your speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202a4dbdccfc2499ebf0407af11b85985\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair, thank you for that. So when we come to Part 3 of the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill, we\u2019re talking about enforcement and other miscellaneous matters within the bill. When we look at the enforcement issue, it also comes down to what you would be enforcing in the bill. It\u2019s important to look at some of the options where enforcement could come into effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIf we look at clause 22, to amend section 39, it says, \u201CRegulator may require any person to provide information for statistical or monitoring purposes\u201D\u2014that seems like a fairly standard approach. Then you get to new section 40, in clause 23, which says, \u201CRegulator may require person who is subject to condition to provide statutory declaration\u201D\u2014that is also a fairly basic sort of approach. But, then, when we get down to clause 25, new sections 41AA to 41D, we get to things like providing information or documents, and confidentiality of information and documents, and conditions relating to publication or disclosure of information or documents. That\u2019s where it gets a little bit more interesting because confidentiality is something that this Government is not known for. It had prided itself on having openness and transparency\u2014that was what we were told when they started off in Government\u2014yet we have yet to see that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI just want to give an example of how we want to see how they would relate to that confidentiality in this situation. Just take the situation of an overseas investor that wants to come to New Zealand and invest in land. That overseas investor may have a less than reputable history in their home country. They may not meet the good-faith test that one would expect. They may even have a source of income or source of assets that one would not expect. Yet, when we come to that information about the confidentiality of information and documents, it would be really interesting to see about the sources of those funds that come into the country and how they\u2019re used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ETake that potential investor that may come in\u2014Mr Chair, it\u2019s in new section 41C, inserted by clause 25, if you\u2019re looking for it there\u2014from that overseas country. Now, there\u2019s an exemption for forestry that\u2019s carved out in the legislation. So with that exemption for forestry, they don\u2019t actually have to provide the information that would normally be expected. So there is an element of confidentiality there for that particular buyer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhat is even more important than that\u2014and something that hasn\u2019t really been traversed in the debate so far\u2014is the payments that will actually be made to that investor. What will happen under this legislation is that there is an exemption for forestry, but, at the same time, the Government is going to introduce payments to forestry. So there will be an incentive that the Government will give, through its emissions trading scheme (ETS) programme, for forestry. We have yet to see the amount of that incentive, but we know it\u2019s coming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo, effectively, that foreign investor that may have a background that is less than rigorous and less than successful, in the sense of a normal investor that would come in under an overseas investment regime would have a free ride to come into New Zealand, to pick the best of New Zealand land that\u2019s under 1,000 hectares\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022897cdb000de841e6a24305e5b14a6ca5\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Probably it\u2019s around the Waikato.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e605d38ed8549d992c81bfaa9587dcb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes, it\u2019s probably in the Waikato\u2014and to put that land into forestry and not care about it. The Minister, when he spoke, talked about a 1 percent return as being something that some of those investors from overseas that are just looking to park their money would be quite happy about. Now, are we going to have that confidentiality clause apply when we actually have the payment that will come from the New Zealand Government to that investor? I can guarantee you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223895110cbe6e48c99d75f69255dfa77b\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What was that again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dee8a4a53d0e4864b28dc799c80821a9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That payment that will come because there will be a forestry incentive payment coming under the ETS. We know that\u2019s coming. So, basically, that foreign investor that might be less than reputable and not meet any criteria under New Zealand foreign investment now will get a free ride to invest in New Zealand. There will be confidentiality clauses that will apply, and then there will be a payment to them from the New Zealand Government. Now, we don\u2019t know whether that payment is actually going to be equal across all forestry investments or whether that payment is going to be on the basis of scale of forestry investment. We don\u2019t know if that payment would actually be there to encourage that investor to come in. There may be some other compensation that that person was looking for, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s potential for this clause to be used in this bill to actually mean that it will hide information around someone that may be less than reputable and that has got a free ride to invest in New Zealand land now, under this legislation, by going into forestry, and that will get a payment from the New Zealand Government which would exceed the 1 percent return that the Minister had said some people around the world would be quite happy with. In fact, many people that are in the situation that a confidentiality clause wouldn\u2019t apply to don\u2019t want any return; they just want to park their money up for a number of years. They just want to have a balance of investments around the world, because they may have business interests in their home country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022157e0894b21c4419b34d4f6a44da220d\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re a bit late coming to this conclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dc94d76abec4c4b9efb4dbc4fffc112\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that they\u2019re not so clear about. What was that from the member across there\u2014that member across there that has been trying to be like \u201CWe\u2019ll look after this bill.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b30d9dc1bc3e4b2eb66de39fddde65b0\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s only got about 20 more contributions before he\u2019s gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022409478bac3a744e19a07fdc41ebff2c2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: He has. So I think there\u2019s a real problem here with transparency for this Government, because we have heard this is going to be the most transparent Government out. What is happening here is the worst kind of a foreign investor: the person that doesn\u2019t want to actually add to the New Zealand economy, that actually would take a very effective dairy farm or kiwifruit farm or apple farm out of that and put it into forestry just to park their money, just to have their assets there. They would be quite willing to do that, knowing that they are getting a guaranteed return from the New Zealand Government on that investment and nobody would know\u2014nobody will know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe members opposite say, \u201COh, that will never happen. That will never happen.\u201D Well, mark my words, the exact people that want to come and invest in New Zealand that can\u2019t now, under our current regime, because they are banned\u2014whether they\u2019ve got a reputation in their country, or whether the funding that they are going to bring in has a source issue, or whether they are not going to add anything to the New Zealand economy; they just want to park up their assets\u2014have now got a free ride and a free cheque. They\u2019ve got a free cheque from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI can\u2019t understand why the New Zealand First Party, which is against foreign ownership, is now enabling foreigners to come in and paying for them to come in. That\u2019s what they\u2019re going to do. The New Zealand First Party will be passing in this Parliament, before the end of the year or next year, a payment for forestry investment. They are paying for foreigners to buy New Zealand land. What has happened to New Zealand First? But that\u2019s what happens with Shane Jones running it and making great economic decisions!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhere\u2019s the Green Party\u2014the Green Party that\u2019s for the environment? Where are they? Why aren\u2019t they actually thinking about those kinds of potential investors that will have their hands on dirty money? There could be money from making bombs that are sold around the world. That\u2019s who the Green Party is letting come into New Zealand now and have a free investment. What\u2019s worse, they\u2019re going to pay for it. They\u2019re actually going to pay for it, and then nobody will ever know because of the confidentiality clauses that will be in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo I think this is a disgrace to the New Zealand Parliament. I think it really shows how, if you make legislation on the hop and you\u2019re doing it for a particular issue, and not actually looking at what the practical application will be, it will mean that New Zealanders are taken for a ride by the wrong people. What we need is an open, transparent Government, and we need to be able to know who are making these investments, why they are making these investments, and where the money came from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00226e458de0cc4447c4922d29f6a9b7e436\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e458de0cc4447c4922d29f6a9b7e436\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll just take an opportunity to clarify a few things in Part 3 of the bill, \u201CEnforcement and other miscellaneous matters\u201D, and it does provide provision there for regulators to get access to more information. One of the things that have happened with overseas investors is that they\u2019ve come in, purchased, made promises, and not delivered. This will increase the ability of people in charge\u2014the Overseas Investment Office\u2014to follow through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere were a couple of comments made\u2014questions, I guess. Firstly, I want to acknowledge that the coalition Government does support overseas investment, but for the good of New Zealanders. You see, what we are passionate about is actually having investment into this country for New Zealanders. Those who want to come and live here are New Zealanders. So they can come here and bring themselves and their families and be residents and they can invest, and we welcome that. The reason for forestry is\u2014the National Party may not have heard of greenfields investment, and if ever there was an example of that it\u2019s forestry. You create greenfields\u2014forests\u2014where they would not have otherwise been, and that\u2019s why we welcome that investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere was a comment made by one of the members of the National Party that this is a dog of a bill. Well, I don\u2019t disagree. In fact, this is an amendment bill\u2014an amendment to the Overseas Investment Act. The Overseas Investment Act, run by the National Government, was a lapdog bill. We are going to change it to a watchdog bill\u2014a dog bill, yes\u2014because it now will be able to be a watchdog on the investments that come into this country and be an appropriate level of scrutiny that ensures the objectives of the bill, which should be\u2014they certainly are under the coalition Government\u2014to invest for New Zealanders\u2019 benefit. Then we have watchdog provisions in here\u2014particularly through Part 3\u2014that enable the regulators to check on that investment and have those people deliver on their promises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere will be members of the National Party who are happy to clip the ticket on the sale of anything to anyone around the world just to make a quick buck. We\u2019re not into that game; we are into long-term strategic investment. We welcome partnerships. We welcome people who want to come in and invest in greenfields projects like forestry and other things that add to the value of the economy in this country. But just being a lapdog bill, as it was prior to the amendment, where the previous National Government allowed anyone to come in, to make their capital gains, and to take their money\u2014we are not going to sit on our hands and allow that to continue. So Part 3 of this piece of legislation will provide the tools to turn this bill from lapdog into watchdog, and I know each and every New Zealander will appreciate that overseas investors are welcome, but they\u2019ve got to add to this country and work with us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00222a2df6693f6940a9822aca27f9815e40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a2df6693f6940a9822aca27f9815e40\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for this opportunity. I must say that was an interesting speech from the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor. He told us\u2014he told Parliament\u2014that this Government is pro - foreign investment. I think they\u2019re as pro - foreign investment as they are pro - the West Coast: not really at all, actually\u2014certainly not at that protest I was at the other day. Gosh, it was fun getting back to protesting. I haven\u2019t been able to do it for a while. Fantastic! Now we\u2019ve got something to protest about, and it\u2019s this useless Government. And, I\u2019ll tell you what, the West Coast people were busy down there. I didn\u2019t see Greg O\u2019Connor there. I didn\u2019t see Greg O\u2019Connor. He wasn\u2019t there\u2014he wasn\u2019t there. No, they\u2019re all wondering what happened to him. They used to think he was one of theirs, but they don\u2019t now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI thought it was very interesting listening. This part of the bill is all about enforcement and other miscellaneous matters, so let\u2019s have a look at this enforcement, shall we? We\u2019re going to have bureaucrats enforcing it and checking things are happening. Well, are they going to have a little uniform? Are they going to have a little uniform? What are going to be their little powers? Is the Government going to give them the powers of the Search and Surveillance Act? No! No! The Minister in the chair, Damien O\u2019Connor, is looking a little bit worried now. This is, by the way, the same Government that wants to get rid of the Serious Fraud Office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022464d27d35b494590a69ffc41363b50cc\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ef8de64af604424bc4db0d934b0424b\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. So they\u2019re the people in charge of corruption investigations, and what they\u2019re doing is they\u2019re going to get rid of that and, at the same time, by the way, they\u2019re going to have all of these bureaucrats running around checking what\u2019s happening\u2014checking without any powers of search and surveillance. Oh dear! So I suppose they\u2019ll just have to ask for some paper, because that will definitely tell the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI think that we\u2019ve got a Government that doesn\u2019t quite understand that if you\u2019re going to have enforcement and lots of rules around things\u2014or you say you are going to have enforcement\u2014you have to give your bureaucrats the powers to do so. So I just think this is a most interesting part of the bill. We\u2019re going to have all sorts of opportunities here for things to be done outside of this bill and within the exemptions as well. When we look at this, what they\u2019re going to say here is that the \u201CPerson who acquires interest\u201D\u2014this is new section 51A in clause 31\u2014\u201Cin residential land must make and provide statement\u201D. Oh, that\u2019s going to be good! That\u2019s going to be tough!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283e81191670f4f3697f8f0606dcc6a43\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: A one-pager.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b151670381b4bf2ab55980bee6c982d\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: A one-pager\u2014a statement. Well, I guess the trouble is that if you\u2019re dealing with people who are telling the truth, that won\u2019t be a problem, but what if they\u2019re not? Who\u2019s going to check? Are we going to have people checking are they really living in a relationship with a New Zealander, are they really permanent residents, or are they actually having us all on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also fascinated about why we have the exemption for forestry. I say this because the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor talks so much about it. Some of you will remember that there is a place called K\u0101ingaroa Forest. As a child\u2014so just a mere 10 years or so ago, or a few decades, maybe\u2014I was taken on a bus trip. Not to be lost, thankfully, like little Gretel, but, instead\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d2ce410a82642158cac4fe677c0debd\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I bet she sat on the back seat, eh? I bet she sat on the back seat!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cbaf3087f1349b7828bd487eff716a8\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I always did\u2014I always cause trouble. Back seats made more fun on the bus, and sometimes in Parliament too, I\u2019ve found. Anyway, we went down to see K\u0101ingaroa Forest, and it looked like it was this fantastic forest, except that it wasn\u2019t because it had been planted during the Great Depression, and once employment came on, once the Second World War came on, there weren\u2019t people there to prune it. So we ended up with this massive forest that was only ever good for pulp and paper\u2014for newsprint. And that\u2019s the problem: you can\u2019t just plant trees and think it\u2019s all going to happen. They have to be pruned, they have to be looked after, and one of the things with this is that it doesn\u2019t actually require any of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got 70 percent of our forests currently owned by foreign interests. This Government that\u2019s so against foreign investment is happy for the rest of them to go to foreign investment and get emissions trading scheme credits. There\u2019s something very strange going on here, and I think it\u2019s something that this Parliament should be asking more about. Why forestry? Why not sorghum? Why not blueberries? Why forestry? And when I look at the exemptions and the rules, it\u2019s very hard for this to be operational.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022fce5fcf5d14544f9b1fcb69f62e59c44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fce5fcf5d14544f9b1fcb69f62e59c44\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve just got to say I\u2019ve got to congratulate my colleague here before. There are not many people who can see into the future and know what\u2019s going to go on. When Mr Bennett was talking about the future and saying to mark his words, I think we should mark his words.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EIf you\u2019re talking about people really doing work, it\u2019s a little bit disappointing. On this side of the Chamber we have people actively engaging, seeking the call, wanting to talk to the matter, because this is an important bill. But the most disappointing thing\u2014I\u2019ve got to acknowledge the Minister in the chair, Damien O\u2019Connor. I\u2019ve got to congratulate him because he is doing a good job, standing and responding to well-asked questions about this bill. We need to understand more about this bill, so I do congratulate him. But the disappointing thing, as I look across the other side of the room, is people have buried their heads, and not one of them is taking the call other than to close this debate down. I just invite them all to stand up, stand up for what they want to vote for, and talk to the bill, especially Part 3\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e64ff0e0b97422696030602cabef03d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: And I invite the member to speak to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d10acb680eb48ef8a788b0e88c05430\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: I am. I am, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f97f2d228ded4cf5b1280371ad481cdd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014no, you are not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9ccb6f65d724d25a4d1874ae9108a42\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Especially anything starting after page 26 of the bill, for you people across the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EJust to a matter I do want to talk about, which is enforcement, I particularly want to turn my mind to the issue of new sections 51A, 51B, and 51C, inserted by clause 31. One of the issues we had about enforcement is that when we were hearing from the officials, we asked them a simple question: how many consents do the Overseas Investment Office process a year? The number was about 150, I seem to recall\u2014150. So, in the context of the Overseas Investment Office and with this new bill coming through, we, naturally, asked the next question. We were informed that they couldn\u2019t tell for sure, and I understand that entirely, but I seem to recall\u2014and I\u2019m looking at Mr Carter\u2014I believe the answer they said is an approximate figure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea55d092c7884aeb914109a75624bd91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea55d092c7884aeb914109a75624bd91\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m afraid I have to interrupt the member. It has come time for me to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EProgress reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180802e0fc441e8eb94956ac08255541eb1293000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"