"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae522a6255c5404ba1f19ce75e04b5ab\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 4 SEPTEMBER 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f14c7ceb8e7c47fd902a30aa411cd727\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 4 SEPTEMBER 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e93700b554c348ec904e244b40f2ff7a\u0022\u003EPrayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c69f5451617b4147a0d2e3b6ff8bbc54\u0022\u003EPrayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002269143ac955934a3fb69737f49a6481a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269143ac955934a3fb69737f49a6481a3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Because it\u2019s Tongan Language Week, I have asked Anahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki to say the prayer in Tongan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u00228554306b086e40b99324386277033f19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228554306b086e40b99324386277033f19\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Ke tau lotu. \u2018E \u2018Otua m\u0101fimafi kuo mau taa\u2018im\u0101lie \u2018i he \u2018of\u00E1. \u2018Oku tuku homau lot\u00F3 ka mau h\u016B atu ke ke malu\u2018i \u2018a e Kuin\u00ED mo tataki \u2018emau ng\u0101ue \u2018i Fale Ale\u00E1 ke fai \u2018aki \u2018a e poto faka\u2018Otua, \u2018of\u00E1 mo e \u2018ulungaanga mal\u016B ko e \u2018uh\u00ED ke mo\u2018ui mo nofo melino \u2018a e fonu\u00E1, \u2018Emeni.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002216ee34ef458744229e17afa34de68910\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022052f7ec70bdd4386951f985160726915\u0022\u003EJapan\u2014Delegation, House of Representatives\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229e9895568aec46bd96b569c7e8e9c59d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e9895568aec46bd96b569c7e8e9c59d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure that members will wish to welcome Mr Shinjiro Koizumi and his delegation from the House of Representatives of Japan, who are present in the gallery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227592427804be46d39ad38156b4a0cba9\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002296d91ec81e2b4d4aaf8505b2dab376b3\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000013\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u2014Confidence in Ministers\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00223172d542dc2b43728b479864d262a997\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223172d542dc2b43728b479864d262a997\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she have confidence in all her Ministers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00224c576a5e0324400581666aa6dbc6b48b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c576a5e0324400581666aa6dbc6b48b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, malo e laumalie. Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d14967e362134532be0ff8a852c41bff\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: When was she or her office first advised that there was a staffing matter in the Hon Meka Whaitiri\u2019s office requiring an investigation by Ministerial Services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a47f984910444a88936d350a171278be\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, I do want to keep the detail of this issue with Ministerial Services, where it belongs as an employment matter, though I can say that I was informed, my recollection was, last Wednesday night\u2014if my memory serves best\u2014and, of course, within a 24-hour period, the Minister offered up to stand aside while the investigation took place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0b90647e760428e8e367ebd8c7e10dc\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Who told her on Wednesday night? Was it the Minister herself or someone else, and, if so, who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5aeacc2d90a4dbe808ac68d853065f5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t want to get into the details of something that is being inquired into by Ministerial Services. That is the best place for this investigation to take place. It is entirely appropriate that that is how it is dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f74fd0e33b14412b56826e3f21a7d38\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister tell the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228b558ac9daa4e1a8f9203a778dd190f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve made it clear that, obviously, I\u2019ve had a conversation with the Minister directly about it. She has said she wants this dealt with openly and transparently. That is what we\u2019re doing. That is why she offered up to stand aside while this was dealt with. But it is being dealt with by Ministerial Services, and that\u2019s the best place for it to be dealt with. If the Opposition leader has a range of specific questions around dates and times, he\u2019s most welcome to put those in writing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acea47ece2ce48e68f291cb371865105\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Well, was it the Minister that told the Prime Minister, or was it someone else?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251338e3bb2a64d6e99a703a2a55531e3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: This is an issue that is being dealt with\u2014rightly so\u2014by Ministerial Services. That is the best place for it to be dealt with. I believe in natural justice. I also want to protect the privacy of individuals who are involved, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re dealing with it in the most appropriate way possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfef5cb3daca41c499863daec3e4f8cc\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Did she ask the Hon Meka Whaitiri directly what happened?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287345e6d304c4f72b513db44075ba979\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: It is fair to say that the allegation is contested, which is why it\u2019s being dealt with by Ministerial Services, and that is appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ef7b266798141e5adf23bb2bbb5d8a8\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her reported statements that Labour monitored staff turnover in its Ministers\u2019 offices; if so, how is this monitoring undertaken?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d10ab5b816349bc9f8dc5331bf218f6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As would be the case for the member when he was in office, obviously, Ministerial Services are aware of staff turnover and the different circumstances that lead to staff turnover. When in Opposition, then it\u2019s Parliamentary Service that plays that role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fe5a7e8eda44208b6375629f7da6259\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How will her Government foster a more open and democratic society, as outlined in the Speech from the Throne, when she has had to demote her Minister for open government for not being open and transparent in her answers to written questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a25145667f8439dbc3eccc6e85684e5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly why the Minister has had to bear the brunt of the consequences of not upholding her own standards. And, on her own measure, she has acknowledged that those errors led to a perception that she wasn\u2019t open in her actions, which is why she absolutely accepted, and offered up the role of open Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206358fca5044474782a6f14ef60aa520\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Did she ask Clare Curran why she had not noted her meeting with Derek Handley in her diary, considering that just one week prior to that meeting, she\u2019d been asked an oral question in the House about her failure to record her breakfast meeting with Carol Hirschfeld?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2b15c917f2b43e189b01f0507573c04\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve been asked this question via the media and have given the same answer I\u2019m happy to give to the House. The member, of course, recalls the meeting she had. It wasn\u2019t recorded, and that\u2019s something that she acknowledges was a complete error. It was set up via herself, and she has released all of the documentation surrounding that meeting and the establishment of that meeting to make it clear what happened in the lead-up to those events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a98465306eff4916b708c8db9ad64e61\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Has she or her office sought an undertaking from the Hon Clare Curran that she has now transferred all appropriate records from her private Gmail account to her ministerial email accounts so that they can be searched for official information and to ensure that appropriate public records are maintained?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5d4cb0beea94f75b10206c42e3240c2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As the member will know, the Official Information Act (OIA) is mode-neutral. Regardless of whether or not information is held on a Gmail account or a parliamentary account, it is subject to the Official Information Act. That is the key. The member, though, proactively, when this issue came out, released a number of different pieces of information relating to this particular incident in order to be transparent around what happened. But it\u2019s OIA-able.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a0407c9f7d34b189a10792cbfc41a6c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Bryce Edwards\u2019 comments that the same mistake by the same person, leading to the same serious outcome\u2014misleading Parliament within a few months\u2014is corrosive, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f151be484814b5ab8c784d7424b88f5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b84b3c11d6824e1d81475856ba60d720\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Was David Cormack correct in his New Zealand Herald column on 27 August, when he said the Department of Internal Affairs told the Prime Minister\u2019s office about Clare Curran\u2019s meeting with Derek Handley, and how does this square with her press conference on 24 August, when she said Minister Clare Curran\u2019s office alerted her office about the meeting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da74b9e957324b75a2a15585dce08d93\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That is the case. I was alerted by Minister Curran\u2019s office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002224571e359fed4f2694380ad88760ce9b\u0022\u003EBuilding Infrastructure\u2014Announcements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u002216db258c250f456a83c7e0dfd6a3c1ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216db258c250f456a83c7e0dfd6a3c1ff\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Infrastructure: What announcements has he made recently?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00222fbb286da6de4aeeb75ff727f5e7b9c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fbb286da6de4aeeb75ff727f5e7b9c1\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Infrastructure):\u003C/span\u003E Recently, at the Building Nations Symposium in Auckland, Cabinet mandated me to announce the establishment of a new independent entity. It has taken not longer than nine months to have this entity well on the way to being erected, unlike the nine years where the industry called for it. The level of confidence reflected back to me through this decision reflects very well on the Government\u2019s approach to infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271d04f7706db461a8d30da7e76c2c5ce\u0022\u003EClayton Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: How will the new entity deliver longer-term infrastructure planning and strategy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221148de4993a74986b77db9640e77d687\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: When we came into Government, we discovered very quickly and very lucidly that there is a major infrastructure deficit. There is a desire on the part of the industry for us to create a portal: a clear point of visibility to enable international, domestic, trans-Tasman providers of either capital, construction services, or other professional services to work with the Crown so we can begin to deal more efficiently with the large infrastructure investment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a33a367f23e487691d60e866c9b8477\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CBlah-blah, blah-blah, blah-blah.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d7fe64e521b4bd690ec74e2dc3af1e2\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Gerry, how is the \u201CPink Panther\u201D going? Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022843cc533317841ec8aa5c4e8fb072bcb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223965ba1f16ce4a219b6ac0c2d40395c8\u0022\u003EClayton Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Nice. Thank you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efad4ae58a6e4abf83f5672da4c82e69\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No, the member will resume his seat. The last comment, in two ways, was inappropriate. The member will withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6bb6544937b4c43987da3f6bf3cf4b4\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022308f752e582443a6a4d65568a874b331\u0022\u003EClayton Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback did the announcement receive from the private sector? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022879d93c40a904e22a252deaadcb5ccf2\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Infrastructure New Zealand described it as \u201Cpositive news\u201D, \u201Ca major step forward for the Government\u201D, an acceptance that there is a wide number of challenges, and, through the creation of this independent agency, at long last they see a Government that is willing to engage with them so that we get the right balance between our political aspirations and harnessing the talent of the private sector and the public sector to deliver infrastructure outcomes in a way that has not been delivered, certainly over the last nine years. Kim Campbell, an occasional critic of the Government\u2014forgiven on this particular occasion\u2014described it as the creation of an entity with a \u201Cmandate to pull together the long-term pipeline of our infrastructure needs.\u201D, and I would just say that what I\u2019ve done in nine months failed to come into being over nine years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7454454e12f417db8d6f3d23fa937a0\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Business Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u00226b33f3728e1e406f8969b2fb00c49df2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b33f3728e1e406f8969b2fb00c49df2\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he think it reflects well on the Government\u2019s economic management that the ANZ business confidence index is at its lowest level since 2008 and the ANZ own activity index is at its lowest level since 2009?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022f96def4dc94a496eafe6d5930288e0e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f96def4dc94a496eafe6d5930288e0e5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Malo e laumalie. It is a reflection of the Government\u2019s economic management that we have a strong surplus, net core Crown debt is low, unemployment is low, and, as at yesterday, our annual terms of trade are the best they have been since records began in 1926. The business confidence survey the member refers to is a reflection of a range of factors including global trends, skills shortages, and business-specific policy issues, all of which we are committed to working with business on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e7e213f121349bebdd606be7cfc063a\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does he acknowledge that the sharp declines in business investment intentions, export intentions, and hiring intentions seen in the most recent survey provide a clear indicator of further slowing in our economy, as noted by the ANZ? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1aa7b3864a549b6ab96861e9b5569b2\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t accept that, and indeed the terms of trade numbers yesterday make clear that\u2014particularly around exports\u2014that\u2019s not the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dd8dae7643a485a8c43274dbe7c71f1\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that one of the only measures in these business confidence surveys that has remained positive since the Government has come into office is the number of businesses who expect to be raising their prices? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e399ec2096c04792a7df4029605c2963\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I note that in this survey, 76 percent of businesses expected their own activity to improve or remain the same over the next year, which I think is a slight tick up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b40c9f688c4429abb30a7fc9aa004f6\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government\u2019s recently announced Business Partnership Agenda give hard-working small businesses confidence and the certainty the Prime Minister promised them when 15 of the 26 policies in that document are working groups with uncertain outcomes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263f003eade3348809061aef62e6055c6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the small business sector can have confidence that we\u2019re introducing e-invoicing and closing loopholes around GST, and there is just a small irony in the member\u2019s question in that the one thing her leader decided to do was set up a working group on small business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c81da7c22fcd405a8fecea0414a35d70\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does it reflect well on the economic management of the Government that the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research\u2019s (NZIER\u2019s) latest forecasts have the New Zealand economy $9 billion smaller in 2022 than was forecast just three months ago, and will he take any responsibility for this? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb1c0fb1734d4d0fbe26c1d2b3f10168\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly won\u2019t take responsibility for NZIER\u2019s forecasts and the fact that they\u2019ve chosen to revise them. What I would say is that most forecasters still believe that we will have 3 percent growth, on average, over the next few years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7f8883569344f569fe07ff8b106be2a\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does it speak well of the Government\u2019s economic management that the Minister ignored Treasury advice when he decided to move $6 billion of debt to Crown entities in Budget 2018\u2014costing taxpayers tens of millions more in unnecessary interest costs\u2014simply to give the illusion of meeting his own Budget responsibility rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232ad62f5d309450d9dd9abe21cffe605\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I can quote no better expert on this than a former associate finance Minister who, when exactly the same facility was introduced, said \u201Cwe believe that external financing will deliver additional commercial discipline for Housing New Zealand.\u201D I agree with Amy Adams about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc8012fbca21464fb53243329a9a2b18\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u002209e7de8ab22447a0aa4629455352f10f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209e7de8ab22447a0aa4629455352f10f\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac743952d6af4096bfc9eaa94f47c1e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac743952d6af4096bfc9eaa94f47c1e9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E More good news. Yesterday, Statistics New Zealand released the terms-of-trade figures for the June 2018 quarter, showing the strength of New Zealand\u2019s export prices over what we pay for imports. Strong readings for dairy and meat export prices led the way for a 0.6 percent quarterly rise in New Zealand\u2019s terms of trade to the second-highest quarterly reading and the highest ever annual terms-of-trade index since records began in 1926. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287c0a0c274984938b8291069e4f28ccd\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What else did Statistics New Zealand say about the terms of trade and the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226ffd34d3e1a4115b685d22beb1deeb4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Statistics New Zealands says that the terms of trade are an indicator of the state of the overall economy. The quarter\u2019s figures show that exports were strong off the back of a lift in dairy and meat prices. The terms-of-trade data also shows that capital goods import volumes are up 13 percent from the previous quarter and up nearly 25 percent from a year ago. These are goods like new machinery, and industrial and transport equipment, which businesses invest in to improve productivity and to drive growth. ASB economists said that the terms-of-trade data showed capital goods import volumes were resilient in the June quarter. On this side of the House, we welcome the fact that real economic data shows that there is confidence among businesses to make productivity-enhancing investments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d24190f96924a7faabd1171eff446be\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: How does this fit with other reports he\u2019s seen on the economy and business performance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022492604a66e2e428b8b0541ded01de995\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Over August, we saw the earnings season on the New Zealand stock exchange. There were too many reports of companies reporting record revenue or profit results for me to list them all in the House today, but I will note that the NZX 50 finished the month up about 4 percent from where it started, with the stock exchange hitting a record high during August off the back of companies\u2019 earning reports. One other report which the House may find interesting is Treasury\u2019s monthly economic indicators released yesterday, and I draw members\u2019 attention to the line that \u201COverall our [Budget and Economic Fiscal Update] pick of 0.7% GDP growth in the June quarter is unchanged.\u201D In other words, the sky is not falling in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022515fe79c4c1f4011b7fbc539c07baf9f\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister agree that given the record terms of trade he\u2019s just espoused, the fact that our economic growth is slowing and that export intentions are down can only be laid at the feet of this Government\u2019s economic mismanagement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d523e1146484d80901c01338bac8bd1\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, because the member clearly wasn\u2019t listening to my very last comment, which is Treasury picking that their GDP growth forecast for the June quarter is unchanged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7e7b12efd8c47f9aefd8a700c1b21be\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what is the definition of \u201Cterms of trade\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263e6cdb36f6e45b3a032f4be91f2e635\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think I, helpfully, said that at the beginning. It\u2019s the strength of New Zealand\u2019s export prices over what we pay for imports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216af2cb271854e509f55ba9c2861e398\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: So how does the New Zealand Government change those global prices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269d0aefa6c4649c392694945358fc5d5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: By working with hard-working business people around New Zealand, exports go up. It\u2019s about encouraging an economy that focuses on productivity, supporting exporters through investment in transport infrastructure, in skills and training, and in research and development\u2014the things that for nine years were ignored. But now exporters in New Zealand know they have a friend in the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2d9eb34d35a43099a3bf8a761e13c79\u0022\u003EHousing and Urban Development, Minister\u2014Statements on Urban Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00221eb9ea672a7045bda7029b6a821412b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221eb9ea672a7045bda7029b6a821412b2\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: Does he stand by all his reported statements regarding the establishment of an Urban Development Authority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022a70ad168aa454351904caa21ad0bb566\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a70ad168aa454351904caa21ad0bb566\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E Malo e laumalie Mr Speaker. Yes, in the context in which they were made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022713ac02d51754611b1f0d082d81546af\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What is the budget for the establishment and ongoing costs of the urban development authority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edf08ac63f714694ab1dd48a71b0499d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The policy process is not even complete. The legislation is not before the House. There is currently no budget for the urban development authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8bb0c650a904e6b9f1efdf08fd1241a\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Was he expecting to recoup the cost of the urban development authority from the Auckland Council when he said it will become \u201Cthe planning and consenting authority\u201D and \u201Chave access to all the planning and consenting powers\u201D currently held by the council?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022046f89adc3a44e1b808919dda8d25f9e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The planned urban development authority is a new way of planning large-scale and complex urban development projects. The entity is expected to be established towards the end of next year, and the Government\u2019s plan is that the urban development authority will lead and facilitate the establishment of 12 to 15 large-scale projects\u2014projects that are capable of delivering thousands of new homes and planned new communities. The authority will have the planning and consenting powers that currently only local government has, but those powers will be exercised only in discrete project areas. It is not intended that it will be a rival or competitive consenting authority across the entire country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f08548c870c843519c99a1791a9703cd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am going to ask the member Judith Collins to ask the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b2c18ed193e4153a7daaddf88037e4c\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Was he expecting to recoup the cost of the urban development authority from the Auckland Council when he said it will become \u201Cthe planning and consenting authority\u201D and \u201Chave access to all the planning and consenting powers\u201D currently held by the council?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2f35dbd8311419fa259c3712a2905a0\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228daf0da4ed964d68adc685465c800818\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: If the urban development authority is to become the \u201Cplanning and consenting authority\u201D for KiwiBuild developments, why should mum and dad developers still be expected to endure the delays currently expected from the Auckland Council?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a7724c40dff4b5a815f469770ffc53e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: They won\u2019t, because this Government has a complex and ambitious urban growth agenda that is designed to tackle all of the problems and the roadblocks in the consenting system, the way that our planning system stops our towns and cities from growing, and the way that the infrastructure financing system is broken and acts as a roadblock to urban growth. So there is a whole reform agenda designed to tackle the problems that the current planning and consenting system put in the way of all developers, not just mum and dad developers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267051beb67184b4fb58d77be6e640e26\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: If, as he has said, the urban development authority will \u201Cbe able to override [Auckland Council\u2019s] Unitary Plan\u201D, why should every other Aucklander have to comply with it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221e4af01fcb445e5bfc130efb6450ae5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Because this Government recognises we have an imperative that in our country\u2019s largest city, we have to build more houses, and we have to undertake high-quality, master-planned, large-scale development. We need an entity to do that because the current institutions and policy settings have singularly failed to deliver. We have that ambition, and I guess we probably shared it with the last Government, because they spent 12 months consulting with the public on the proposal for an urban development authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253e57fbae99443938458b9510be77a10\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Malo e laumalie Mr Speaker. Why is the Government establishing an urban development authority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b544acbc38b54d458ae211be656f9234\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Because, traditionally, New Zealand\u2019s towns and cities have grown simply by turning neighbouring rural land into suburban homes. Brownfield development in cities is more difficult and risky because of poor-quality infrastructure and disparate landowners. The urban development authority is a new way of planning these large-scale developments. It will be a one-stop shop for all the development capability this Government needs to build our way out of the national housing crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222344235af4bf4541940559f3112f8e05\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to free up land and enable development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd54ba661296477b84a7e246b81b656a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has an ambitious plan to create the conditions so that the market can respond to growth and bring down the high cost of urban land. The main objective of our Urban Growth Agenda is to improve housing affordability, encourage more competitive urban land markets, and improve housing affordability. The three key areas are infrastructure funding and financing to enable a more responsive supply of infrastructure finance, urban planning that allows our cities to grow up and out while delivering a quality-built environment, and, thirdly, a stronger spatial planning partnership so that central government and local government can plan together for growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291103e2e8c5e4fe0bca2c1fe23c11868\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Will he support substantive reform of the Resource Management Act (RMA) to enable housing and urban development to proceed efficiently for all New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa97648fc7e44444b7597a787a6231fe\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the National Party\u2019s offering a bipartisan opportunity to support reforms to the planning system that genuinely encourage more urban growth and more affordable housing, our side of the House would support that. But what we saw for nine years from that side of the House was ham-fisted attempts to gut the RMA of its environmental protections, and a series of reforms that only succeeded in making the RMA more expensive and more complicated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002275bf756ed9fe474cb2bcd0afb8581c35\u0022\u003EHousing, Rental\u2014Minimum Standards\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u002248272cd14fcd4a88b3e20c8f7f85dfe1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248272cd14fcd4a88b3e20c8f7f85dfe1\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: What steps, if any, has the Government taken to ensure families who are renting their homes have secure, stable, warm, and dry homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00226928b9cc1b444db6a449292825f44c97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226928b9cc1b444db6a449292825f44c97\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E This Government is fulfilling our commitment to make life better for renters. Last week, the Government asked for feedback on our proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act. Tenancy laws are antiquated and don\u2019t reflect the fact that renting is now a long-term reality for so many families. This morning, I announced our proposed healthy homes guarantee standards. The standards will set minimum requirements for heating, insulation, ventilation, moisture and drainage, and draught-stopping in all rental properties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296ac8b7e98024830a3ad785c62355a43\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: What effect will the Government\u2019s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act have on families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4f670d0aaa84d4fae30e3006f00cb11\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, insecure tenure can force families to continually move house, which is particularly tough on children when they have to keep changing schools. By ending no-cause tenancy terminations while ensuring that landlords can still get rid of rogue tenants and increasing the amount of notice a landlord must give to tenants to terminate a tenancy, we can give families a more stable home and more secure tenure. We\u2019re also consulting on limiting rent increases to once per year, banning rent bidding, and working out how we can better enable tenants and landlords to reach agreement about pets and minor alterations to their home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e34b771bf4b49238c2ebb223cf88778\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: How will the healthy homes standards ensure families have warm and dry homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c0d2a5bf18a42079d83ed617d42cf74\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we know that rental homes are more likely to be older and of poorer quality than owner-occupied homes. Approximately 200,000, or more than a third, of rental homes have no installation at all. Many are cold and damp and mouldy and cause respiratory illness, toxic reactions, and allergies. In fact, some 40,000 children go to hospital every year with respiratory infections caused by illnesses related to poor-quality housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fe3b83465ec4171b25cc1ed28d133a0\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on the need for these reforms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c8c3f4eb26c420c94e9faebd999a23d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: On almost a daily basis, we see stories of tenants in homes of unacceptable quality or being moved on from home after home. One tenant speaking to Radio New Zealand recently had moved between six different homes, including spending a week in a basement, and recently the New Zealand Herald reported on the Papakura \u201Cswamp house\u201D, where a family with two young children were permanently sick because of a rubbish-filled pond under their house.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002261f589f683ce4ab899bc1befa8e6bbce\u0022\u003ETransport Infrastructure\u2014Fuel Taxes and Funding Priorities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c35bb178b98243879fc8400273b4efc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c35bb178b98243879fc8400273b4efc6\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does the National Land Transport Programme announced last week give New Zealand road users good value for the road user charges and fuel taxes they are paying?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3caacef7aef406284c7a44be301f838\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3caacef7aef406284c7a44be301f838\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. The National Land Transport Programme is a record investment in our transport system, including a 37 percent increase in road safety spending to save lives; a $600 million increase in road funding to the regions; $5.7 billion for State highways, including P\u016Bhoi to Wellsford, Mount Messenger, the Manawat\u016B Gorge replacement, and Transmission Gully; and $4 billion to ease congestion in our major cities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a992be3f0804ef4be73ff477c57a4c4\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: How is it good value for people in Tauranga to pay 12c more in fuel taxes but not receive the much-needed four-laning of State Highway 2\u2014New Zealand\u2019s deadliest road?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a78f450b88b4086abf8eac69dac8cfd\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m sure the member knows that that road suffered from terrible neglect over nine years. This Government is undertaking through the New Zealand Transport Agency a re-evaluation of the plans for that highway, but we recognise that it\u2019s not good enough that nothing was done to that road while suburbs were allowed to expand along that corridor towards \u014Cmokoroa. It needs investment in safety improvements and, under this Government, it\u2019ll get them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022200d98d432e54636b3bab1aca4d22888\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: How is it good value for the people of \u014Ctaki to pay 12c a litre more in fuel taxes when they\u2019re less likely to get the \u014Ctaki to Levin expressway completed, as the Prime Minister actually promised in the media?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce5c996d5ce0442da3de0e55f1de637f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the people of \u014Ctaki and Levin, like communities all over this country, are going to benefit from a more rational and measured transport policy that invests in safety improvements\u2014passing lanes, median barriers, side barriers, intersection upgrades\u2014because we\u2019re concerned to improve safety and save lives across thousands of kilometres of the transport network, and not just a few dozen kilometres, which was the policy of the former Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfc57bb384f940fab97121b61924b515\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Will the tram projects in Auckland that he\u2019s been championing be funded from revenue gained from fuel taxes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2a70ceb93f740a3a6d14f6f879e9bcb\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the light rail rapid transit project in Auckland will not be funded through the regional fuel tax, as the member has consistently claimed through the media. But $1.8 billion has been set aside as part of the $28 billion, 10-year transport investment plan that this Government put together in cooperation with Auckland Council\u2014the first time there has ever been a fully funded 10-year transport plan for Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c00f4cea014748df90dc9fca49668b0b\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Why should people in Tauranga and \u014Ctaki pay 12c a litre more in fuel taxes to fund Auckland trams when his Government won\u2019t commit to funding the much-needed roads in those communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285d2190260a4454cac267c18d7f4c421\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No amount of baseless scaremongering from the member can change that fact that under our transport plan, we\u2019re putting $600 million more into roading in the regions than is going into the six biggest metropolitan centres\u2014a bigger increase than we ever saw under the former Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002248b29ce422084f75a40e013e9c6070fd\u0022\u003EHealth Sector\u2014Appointments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022deab1cee593d42b3a717ab56ac36b9c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022deab1cee593d42b3a717ab56ac36b9c7\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he believe he has followed the process set out in the State Services Commission document Board Appointment and Induction Guidelines in making appointments to health sector entities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00226b9702a5f8d44904b231cd0c461c05ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b9702a5f8d44904b231cd0c461c05ee\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Malo e laumalie \u2018Eiki Sea. According to the State services guidelines, Ministers may appoint or recommend those who, in their opinion, have the appropriate knowledge, skills, and experience to assist the entity to achieve its objectives and perform its function. My answer is yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aa418b022e94cf8b04d0b200bf689f9\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the 15 steps recommended by those guidelines were not followed in the appointment of the Hon Steve Maharey to chair the board of Pharmac?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e4c78d5be604d1ba2d61021ade35330\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Steve Maharey\u2019s appointment followed the standard process for board chairs and was signed off by Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221efdcddfb04440669bfc9e44c7202baa\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: How could best-practice process have been followed in the appointment of the Hon Mark Gosche to chair the Counties Manukau District Health Board when the decision to appoint him was made prior to the formal decision to remove Rabin Rabindran and before the recommendation to appoint Mr Gosche was put before the appropriate Cabinet committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b0a7bbb05054ceab4474fcbb210413f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I reject some of the assertions made in that statement, but suffice to say that Ministers may appoint or recommend those who have the appropriate knowledge, skills, and experience to assist the entity to achieve its objects and performance function. When I have good candidates, I\u2019m willing to guide an appointment process that appoints them, and I\u2019ve appointed dozens of board members since I became the Minister of Health and I stand by the appointments that I\u2019ve made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca9a4a2339db429388083630747b5fc8\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Do those appropriate skills and attributes include being former Ministers of the Labour Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8b695a84f614f5695576704765a9d0f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Being a Minister of the Crown is a good qualification when it comes to skills and experience pointed to in the Board Appointment and Induction Guidelines from the State Services Commission. They indicate that skills and experience are very important, so Ministers of the Crown do have qualifications that can be useful for these appointments. As I say, I\u2019ve made dozens of them, and a few of them have been former Crown Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a824ae1d0134c528dc04b872a4101d8\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t this just a clear pattern\u2014those appointments, plus those of the Hon Pete Hodgson, Margaret Wilson, and Heather Simpson\u2014of jobs for former Labour Ministers and a long-time Labour staffer being offered without even a basic nod to the very probity to which he claims to subscribe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223132a3b1e5b4dfbb32153db16d53f9d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224dd53dc657a044febc22e272c92dc160\u0022\u003EGreater Christchurch Regeneration\u2014Progress\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00227b3e5c4eaa8449ccb7ec380dcf65bd2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b3e5c4eaa8449ccb7ec380dcf65bd2b\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration: What progress, if any, has this Government made towards the regeneration of Greater Christchurch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002279f21e5ff689436c960533732217d169\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279f21e5ff689436c960533732217d169\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration):\u003C/span\u003E Malo e laumalie \u2018Eiki Sea. As this House will know, today is the eighth anniversary of the September earthquake that disrupted so many people\u2019s lives. Since coming to office, this Government has worked hard to remove remaining roadblocks by, among other things, putting mental health support workers into our primary schools, reforming the Earthquake Commission (EQC) and accelerating the resolution of outstanding claims, and putting stalled anchor projects back on track while setting up a $300 million capital fund to finish the job. We\u2019re also establishing an insurance tribunal, with legislation which my colleague Andrew Little will bring to the House this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b92258f653ea40908b827a7cf41afdf5\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Ko \u2018eku fehu\u2018i t\u0101nak\u00ED. Why is it important that the Government continues to prioritise the regeneration of Christchurch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd190ac7f3864e50998f0ea394a72011\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s important because there\u2019s still unfinished business in Christchurch. People are still living in damaged homes, families are still coping with serious psychosocial impacts, and businesses are waiting for certainty. This Government is committed to finishing the job and helping people move on with their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d97c14b30b14001a39c39867ccfe6f7\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: What further progress does she anticipate in the coming months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c11cf32085b49c2b9ee2cf04aae9ebc\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: There are a range of things we can expect to see over the coming months. Some include a global settlement with Christchurch City Council, more initiatives to speed up the resolution of the remaining insurance claims, an inquiry into EQC, and the development of a business case for a stadium enabled by the establishment by this Government of a capital acceleration fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022126de22c632c45a98575d6c51fd094b8\u0022\u003ESmall Business Council\u2014Role\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00223fa38ae6a89f48fba19c811def83157f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fa38ae6a89f48fba19c811def83157f\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Small Business: Does he stand by all his statements and actions regarding small business?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022af8279a4f6e24c788bb7372b2ad912d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af8279a4f6e24c788bb7372b2ad912d7\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister for Small Business):\u003C/span\u003E Malo e lelei \u2018Eiki Sea. Yes, in context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e9c66817de843ac97a921acc81bcdff\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: What is the difference between the Small Business Council he announced three weeks ago and the Prime Minister\u2019s Business Advisory Council announced by the Prime Minister last week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba32ee2a027a4bf286ab8274e12e3962\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: One is about small businesses and driving growth in productivity across that sector; the other is to give the Prime Minister advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e070bf81f0048a98bbadc991d168b33\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: What is the difference between the Small Business Council\u2019s role, which is to \u201Cbuild relationships with small businesses \u2026 and be the voice of small business at the Cabinet table\u201D, and the Prime Minister\u2019s Business Advisory Council\u2019s role, which is: \u201CI want to work closely with and be advised by senior business leaders\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212a017b915974404ac49bc09c42ae1c9\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat, one is to drive productivity and growth across the small business sector; the other is to give the Prime Minister advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d95e326598724c86be6f4c67fc4859bb\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Will the proposed small-business institute, to be located at a New Zealand university, have similar terms of reference, which will take the count to three new advisory groups?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e350c5633b5e49bb838f7492be4527c2\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Wait and see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222459ff1dd36f44539938803eb71e79c4\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: If business confidence continues to fall, will he go on to establish a small-business commission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cbf5d99fc694653886ef471f835bbe4\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s quite interesting. The managing director of Xero, which provides services to over 300,000 small businesses, actually says their own survey of business indicators challenges the notion that the economy is in a downturn. But one thing I would say is that that former Minister actually put the Small Business Advisory Group into abeyance, so that for the first time in 15 years, a Minister for Small Business had no voice around the table. She stopped listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf8c5627c7624967b776c27cf89193ce\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That can\u2019t possibly be accepted as a reasonable answer to the very simple question that was asked about what he would do. He said all sorts of things that are perhaps interesting to him, but were in no way an answer to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253f9af4536264c57aa4bd93c2a33a317\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it certainly wasn\u2019t a helpful answer, but I think it\u2019s also fair to say that a part of the question headed away from that member\u2019s area of responsibility. I don\u2019t think he has a general responsibility for business confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d778dae5a6bd4ae4b7bdc9317fdacc9c\u0022\u003EUnemployment Rate\u2014Statistics\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00222eccde0258674ad882a8998e9b3a1050\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222eccde0258674ad882a8998e9b3a1050\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Employment: Was the unemployment rate 4.9 percent when he was sworn in as Minister, as he stated on Newshub Nation on Saturday, 1 September?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022eacefabdebe74bb5ae3c12b675600bb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eacefabdebe74bb5ae3c12b675600bb3\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Malo e lelei Mr Speaker. I thank the member for the question. I was happily mistaken when I said it was 4.9 percent on Newshub Nation. I\u2019ve now been advised that at the time I was sworn in as the Minister of Employment, the official annual rate for unemployment was actually 5 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9878db9ade44abca64641edaf494e83\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister certain that the unemployment rate when he was sworn in was at\u2014what did he just say?\u20145 percent and not actually at 4.6 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2ec7a55254a4e74b025a2ba82363c66\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m actually absolutely certain that the annual rate was 5 percent. What the member needs to understand is that there are annual rates and there are quarterly rates. It\u2019s easy to cherry-pick figures to suit the narrative. But you cannot argue: since this Government came into office, the official annual rate of unemployment has dropped from 5 percent in June 2017 to 4.5 percent in June 2018.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa8064d22847460d8dd96bcb684ecb64\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: So can we expect the Minister to continue cherry-picking numbers, as he put it, instead of putting the actual facts on the table and being across his portfolio?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236aa47a4c8e54b4c97497417b07de253\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a sad question. I\u2019m absolutely across this portfolio. We\u2019re putting in a lot of investment. We shouldn\u2019t get caught up in the 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 percent. It\u2019s about the people\u2014the people, sadly, that the Opposition forgot all about. The member Bennett, the member Goldsmith, and all the members on the opposite side\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ed4ba9a097f408d9dd5348658eb972d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! That\u2019s enough. The member will resume his seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1ae0baf82b744f882e720920c9d2436\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: So when he said he had taken the number of NEETs\u2014those not in employment, education, or training\u2014from 80,000 down to 72,000, did he know it was actually 76,000 when he came into office, increasing, of course, to 83,000 in March this year, and, if so, does he know what the number is now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022029d2eab0aad4f6bab88a80f17a09080\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Here we go again, talking about the figures. We\u2019re very clear that the latest survey has been the best survey for a number of years. We have more M\u0101ori being employed, we have more women being employed, and the NEETs have gone down much more than it ever did with the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222918f115906d4d0f8dc72af9b952e9d6\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: Malo e laumalie. What other statistics did the Minister discuss on Newshub Nation on Saturday, 1 September?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a7a60ffcb6a4832a6f1448897d43881\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: What a great question. I discussed the unemployment rates of M\u0101ori, of Pasifika, and of young people not engaged in education, employment, or training as well, and I\u2019m proud to share that with the House today. This Government is making a difference for the key groups. M\u0101ori unemployment is now 9.4 percent, down from 11.1 this time last year, and the M\u0101ori employment rate is up to 63.9 percent from 61.3 percent. Pasifika unemployment is now 8.6 percent, down from 10.2 percent in the same period, and the employment rate is now up to 60.9 percent. The NEETs rate is now 10.9 percent, down from 11.2 percent. This Government is on track. We\u2019ve made a great start, but there\u2019s still much to do, and we\u2019re more than willing to get on with the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abe7fdacb24646189ed8bc864d24866a\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: What else did the excellent Minister discuss on Newshub Nation about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a9a792ac9484d038b610a790c766f27\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member just lost his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aee26733f20643dc9ec14ffeaca1bba0\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What is the current number of NEETs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd6cd6bc5f6d4c7cbe21fb731f5bcbef\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: The NEETs figure is down to 72 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221583cd496a8b46a7ad3e82402a06d5f4\u0022\u003ESmall Businesses\u2014Government Initiatives\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u00225a76495013484fb0b407c02fa32dd752\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a76495013484fb0b407c02fa32dd752\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Small Business: What initiatives has he recently announced to support small businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022c05a2701f5004c45af45eb487b338917\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c05a2701f5004c45af45eb487b338917\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister for Small Business):\u003C/span\u003E Malo e lelei \u2018Eiki Sea. Last month, this Government announced the creation of the Small Business Council to work on initiatives and strategic issues to help drive improvement and innovation in the small-business sector. This builds on top of other initiatives in the previous quarter, including 12 successful small-business roadshows around the country, Budget 2018 initiatives that actually funded the invoicing, and the development of online tools such as the health and safety policy maker to modernise and simplify the way we support business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229c2b8c4ebe24b328490a03d653170ba\u0022\u003EJo Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has the Minister received from small businesses about these initiatives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae8eed04b31b4c598a05535bf09b6441\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: More than 1,000 small-business owners or aspiring owners have recently taken part in a three-month series of roadshows around the country. A survey of the sentiment showed that they were positive about the services and support that the Government agencies offer small businesses. Eighty-one percent also described the roadshows as excellent or very good, and each day there are between 5,000 and 10,000 Kiwi businesses visiting business.gov.nz. The average visitor satisfaction rating is 84 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c438039116274a5592a74deb3605fcc9\u0022\u003EJo Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: How did the Minister decide on the membership of the Small Business Council?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252dbebd1671e4e20b71b988c6b1c20f2\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Alongside small-business owners, I deliberately included the so-called big end of town such as the New Zealand Bankers\u2019 Association, Fonterra, and Xero as members on my Small Business Council. Access to capital, accounting and payments software, new digital tools, and prompt payment are some of the frequent topics that small businesses raise with me, and the need for the support of other businesses in order to thrive. And small businesses and large corporates need to work together and ensure that the needs of the small and medium sized enterprise sector are supported. I\u2019m committed to supporting small businesses to that effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b25f0c94de242768c313d1794746833\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11 to Minister\u2014Amended Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022c58afdb5e37c4ddebaaec4593fa25be4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c58afdb5e37c4ddebaaec4593fa25be4\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I just wanted to correct something that I said in the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b03829fa52a84d5cbf6811b5786c8d62\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s going to seek leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfcffc9ef12c4beb9e666fe56f6535d8\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Can I seek leave to make a correction?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022043547a16b104f678a7ddf31c102befd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection? The Hon Willie Jackson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202c5fc5f3d3047a48688367a0e0e6fef\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Sadly, I\u2019ve made a mistake over the 80 percent to 72 percent young people not in education, employment, or training. I meant 80,000 to 72,000. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fc35b204be084a1eb65d94d16c0a3b16\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002261a62964bc10400db3f85154a50c4fec\u0022\u003EHon Clare Curran\u2014Removal from Cabinet\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022cea32cdb8a3a419f807e981c20001b37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cea32cdb8a3a419f807e981c20001b37\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from the Hon Simon Bridges seeking to debate, under Standing Order 389, the removal of the Hon Clare Curran from Cabinet and her resignation of two portfolios. This is a particular case of recent occurrence that involved ministerial responsibility. Not every ministerial resignation will lead to an urgent debate being accepted, particularly where the Minister concerned has resigned portfolios rather than ceased being a Minister altogether. However, in this instance the Prime Minister has removed a Minister from Cabinet for conduct involving answers to questions from this House. After weighing up the circumstances and the public interest in ministerial probity, I have decided to allow the debate to be held today. Therefore, I call on the Hon Simon Bridges to move that the House take note of an urgent matter of public importance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002247f3ae796b144304a170c18a68e2f6fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247f3ae796b144304a170c18a68e2f6fc\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EOver the sorry Clare Curran saga, we have seen some of the weakest leadership this Parliament has ever seen occur under Jacinda Ardern\u2014some of the weakest leadership we have ever seen. It\u2019s been part and parcel\u2014actually, it\u2019s been more than that; it\u2019s been symbolic of a torrid, an incompetent, and a shambolic few days for the Prime Minister, who\u2019s leading a Government of absolute amateurs\u2014look no further than Willie Jackson, who\u2019s not here, actually. They are failing to get off the ground.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s just go through the facts of what we\u2019ve seen happen here with Clare Curran and the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister found out\u2014what was it?\u2014three Mondays ago, we\u2019re told, about her former flatmate, now Minister in the Government, and her meeting with Derek Handley. It took months and months and months to get to the point where the Prime Minister learnt and Clare Curran fessed up. Actually, according to David Cormack\u2014someone who writes his columns usually on me but, for once, has done a column on something else\u2014it was only because the internal affairs department had said so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIt took months and months and months for this meeting to come out, and we\u2019re told that this was just an honest mistake\u2014it\u2019s just an honest mistake what\u2019s happened here. Why, then, was it that the meeting with Derek Handley\u2014wait for it; this is remarkable\u2014was only a week after Clare Curran had been asked questions in this Parliament about the very same sort of thing: secret meetings she wasn\u2019t recording with Carol Hirschfeld? The very same issue the week before\u2014secret meetings, not declared\u2014and we are led to believe that that\u2019s just an honest mistake. Well, I say to this House that either it was intentional or, if it wasn\u2019t, it was a special form of stupid by that Minister. Either way, Clare Curran should have been stripped of her warrant, stripped of all ministerial responsibilities, and no longer be in this Parliament as a Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222a9e65c330a4eef92236c6e200db5c8\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Make room for Paul Eagle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f7b69bfc1c44b70815d4278d41f1cf7\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Paul Eagle\u2019s coming through; I think that\u2019s probably true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022570bd5a51e9342fb92469183eddcad1d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Rino\u2014Rino\u2019s a runner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7f0309a417a4ef38143997e731aa2db\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Rino\u2014I\u2019ve heard that one, too. But there\u2019s more to this than just the months and months that it took for this to come to the Prime Minister\u2019s attention in terms of the timings, because when she found out\u2014Prime Minister Ardern\u2014about this on the Monday afternoon, do you think she acted, what, on the Tuesday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f4b6e5afb7c4176b5f0bdaa2962c4c7\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b352fd475f1e4dac98d8bccf5fc26ce2\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Tuesday afternoon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022512d6851f22f4c868d67c059d87a20ee\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b3ad95642e249b8847f908d56d296cf\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Wednesday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f7cf791cb1c4e24baddb66c079b7253\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cd09e9bd835442a871b19b482dd6942\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Wednesday afternoon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208c6373f353b4833b8f332f7570e3125\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a036c36f575f4e0a88400a0f6f30b95c\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Thursday morning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022819360e1060c46b1b1232632d4a781be\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2cd6b182ad44430b8fb898913dc3c5b\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: On Friday at 4 p.m., the Prime Minister put out the issue in relation to Clare Curran and told the public about it, some four\u2014what was it?\u2014five days later. That\u2019s not only weak leadership; that\u2019s stupid, and it is as cynical as it gets in this Parliament. And don\u2019t believe me; my good old friend David Cormack made it quite clear. He said it was very cynical, and if he says that, look, I tell you, it\u2019s at the top end of cynical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EAnd why was it at 4 o\u2019clock on a Friday? Well, because the Prime Minister had come back, and she wanted to have an announceable every day to show everyone how good things were going. We had some really significant announcements over that time. We had wheel-clamping from Kris Faafoi\u2014wheel-clamping from Kris Faafoi. \u201CWell, it worked for me\u2014it got me into Cabinet. It had no public importance, but it got me into Cabinet.\u201D, so good luck to Kris Faafoi on that one. And we had our 153rd working group from the Prime Minister\u2014an acknowledgment that they are failing business, they are failing the economy, and they are showing no leadership whatsoever in that area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThey couldn\u2019t do the right thing until Friday afternoon at 4 o\u2019clock. It was weak, it was stupid, and it was incredibly cynical. And it was too little, too late\u2014it was too little, too late\u2014because it could\u2019ve been Tuesday, it could\u2019ve been Wednesday, or it could\u2019ve been Thursday. It could\u2019ve been but it wasn\u2019t, and it was too late, too little, actually, because after the secret meeting with Carol Hirschfeld came the secret meeting\u2014with exactly the same secretive formula\u2014with Derek Handley. We all know the saying: you fool me once\u2014not you, Mr Speaker\u2014shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EAnd yet Clare Curran still has her warrant. She still has her ministerial salary and her perks. I know what Helen Clark would\u2019ve done in this situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f166e9d18fbc40dc9561c40e50f1f709\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no, you don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7082e02783d43fd891765bff7665de2\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what would she have done, Ruth Dyson? I know what she did to Ruth Dyson\u2014it took about four minutes. Well, I tell you what: Clare Curran would\u2019ve been gone straight after Carol Hirschfeld. She would\u2019ve been gone after that Astoria breakfast, not by lunchtime, actually, and I know what John Key would\u2019ve done in that situation\u2014it would\u2019ve been exactly the same. And yet Clare Curran\u2014really, as a symbol of the Prime Minister\u2019s lack of leadership\u2014is still there on her ministerial salary and with those ministerial perks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EAnd what about the substance of the meeting with Derek Handley? What do we know about it? Well, firstly, we know it was in relation to a position of Chief Technology Officer\u2014a solution looking for a problem. An absolute waste of time\u2014no need for it. No one is calling for it. The tech sector is saying they don\u2019t know why it\u2019s happening, and as\u2014look, no necessary friend of the National Party, but The Spinoff says, in relation to this, \u201CMuch of New Zealand\u2019s tech community has reacted with derision to a report entrepreneur Derek Handley is all-but-certain to soon be announced as New Zealand\u2019s first chief technology officer.\u201D It goes on to quote many in the tech sector: \u201CIt \u2018has the potential to become a major embarrassment for the government\u2019, said one, while another referred to what they perceived as his \u2018poor industry reputation\u2026 (he) was presumably unvetted.\u2019 The storm was best captured by Nat Dudley:\u201D\u2014quote\u2014\u201C \u2018Literally everyone I know in tech, an industry known for arguing over the stupidest [stuff] like which almost-identical JavaScript framework they\u2019re going to use, is united in the idea that Handley would be a terrible pick for NZ CTO.\u2019 \u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d661a86879fc4806a85b0554a44eac5e\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019ll still get it, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022165bbf3a4dee4ba2bd5ae5e4e5e3bccf\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: And it goes on, and it goes on. And we\u2019re hearing\u2014you\u2019re right, Amy Adams\u2014that he is going to get it despite the appalling, secretive process. This appointment \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7bbef4beddc446db79ffdfc1c3896e3\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: It smacks of Steve Maharey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee2261f17a8c4cd99352dcf6e47753ac\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014leads to all manner of wider issues for the Government here. It\u2019s exactly right, Amy Adams\u2014it smacks of Steve Maharey. The arrogance of this Government that officials don\u2019t need to be involved in appointments and processes\u2014secret meetings, secret phones, and secret email addresses, not just in relation to Derek Handley but Steve Maharey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EActually, we heard today in questioning that Mark Gosche was, we\u2019re led to believe, actually in the process of being appointed while Rabin Rabindran was still in the job. And the Prime Minister talks to us today\u2014she has the audacity to talk to us today about natural justice. Well, she should show Meka Whaitiri the same sort of natural justice she showed Rabin Rabindran\u2014absolutely appalling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e67428dacaf4b09b2d273cceb257f10\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Bye-bye. Bye-bye, Simon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221edae6c0ef744048af70175f0de40317\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: And it\u2019s not just this person; it\u2019s many, many others\u2014well, my friend over there says \u201CBye-bye\u201D. This is the guy that jumps up and down because he\u2019s at 2 percent in the polls, and he knows it. Look at him\u2014look at him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EDespite the rhetoric of transformation, of this being\u2014what has the Prime Minister said?\u2014the most transformative and the most open and transparent Government ever, what have we got? Their Minister of, quote, \u201COpen Government\u201D has been sacked for her complete lack of transparency and openness in relation to all things\u2014secret meetings, secret mobile phones, and secret emails.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b64c237393748b0801f028fbc8a0159\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Easy, tiger.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efc024482a62440c8907c702b4d44b84\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: And you know what we hear? Well, let\u2019s see where it goes, Kris Faafoi\u2014let\u2019s see where it goes. This guy over here, Chris Hipkins, is vigorously writing\u2014he\u2019s getting his clever lines out\u2014but he knows what I\u2019m saying is right. It\u2019s the kind of Government and secrecy Hillary Clinton would be proud of, Chris Hipkins\u2014that\u2019s what we\u2019re seeing here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EAnd it\u2019s not just Carol Hirschfeld, of course; it was Derek Handley, as well. What did Tim Murphy, New Zealand Herald editor to Newsroom editor, as well, say about the transparency of this Government\u2014all hope, all transformation, all openness. He said, \u201CLabour\u2019s record of deletions or obstructions under the Official Information Act, for example, has been as bad or worse than\u201D all previous Governments. Bryce Edwards, a commentator, has also made it quite clear on Clare Curran and the affair around this. It has led to a whiffy-ness on this Government, Chris Hipkins\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022694c5354b5c14efd9af35247a99f7026\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: You can smell it from here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2b8df0ffae34ee39846db7940caf0d5\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014a whiffy-ness that I can smell right here, as I stand across from the member. A tarnishing effect on the Government\u2014shame on Clare Curran, who is still getting her ministerial salary, and shame on Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern for her weak leadership for allowing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EClare Curran is a symbol of exactly what is happening in this Government. It is weak, it is incompetent, and it is a shambolic Government. Rather than fairy dust breezing around the Government, I think it\u2019s asbestos, actually, and it\u2019s breezing around the Cabinet table as we speak, with the litany of fiascos, because it\u2019s not\u2014Chris Hipkins\u2014just Clare Curran. It\u2019s not just that. Actually, it\u2019s a Young Labour camp where zero accountability has been had for that. It\u2019s Shane Jones in open defiance because he knows, actually, what a fiasco yet another working group is on the real issues that small businesses are saying to me and, if he\u2019s getting out and about, they\u2019ll be saying to him, as well. It\u2019s Winston Peters on refugees. It\u2019s Meka Whaitiri, where it\u2019s very simple: all the Prime Minister needed to do was look that Minister in the eye and ask her what had happened. It doesn\u2019t take another working group, another review, and several weeks\u2019 process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI know what Helen Clark and I know what John Key would have done on that, and on the incompetence that we\u2019re seeing from the likes of, well, many, many Ministers, but let\u2019s just pick on Willie Jackson this afternoon, who says a few percentage points don\u2019t matter, and went on The Nation with more fake news than Donald Trump has in two months. It was absolutely a shocker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295afe1b5ea8041fda31e789188d67ee0\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: There goes the US invite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b0be8fe03dc4f43b1a4c9c1e06f3be9\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, on this side of the House, Kris Faafoi\u2014the wheel-clamping man, who\u2019ll always be famous for that, if nothing else\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7d724ba4e1046d39540dba894559b9b\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll clamp your car\u2014clamp your Crown car, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd4b625200a746f1af6ea34899dded3f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019re focused on the big issues, that\u2019s for sure! The Government really is!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWell, I say to those members on the other side of the House, on this side we won\u2019t be weak. We\u2019ll be a strong and stable Government with high-growth policies that will get this country back on track. We\u2019ll provide the certainty that some 160 working groups, and counting\u2014one every couple of days of their tenure is going on. We\u2019re doing the work now, whether it\u2019s on small and medium sized enterprises right at the moment, or whether it\u2019s on other groups, to give this country a real choice at the next election, and to give it the leadership\u2014not the weakness\u2014that it deserves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002247da511c918c4157baf524860ed34448\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247da511c918c4157baf524860ed34448\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E There\u2019s one message that\u2019s abundantly clear from that contribution, and that is that it was probably the longest 15 minutes in Simon Bridges\u2019 life, because having demanded the House set aside time for an urgent debate on a ministerial demotion, he then struggled to string together more than two or three sentences on that particular issue before veering off into other things. In fact, I would go so far as to say that contribution was two snappers short of a resignation. I\u2019ve sat on that side of the House and I\u2019ve watched the looks on the faces of the caucus. You could see as he went along that they were slumping further and further down in their chairs\u2014been there before and seen that before. You\u2019ve been there waiting for your leader to give a big, rousing speech to rally the troops and stick it to the Government, and they come up with that and you sit there and you think, \u201COh, no.\u201D That\u2019s exactly what Simon Bridges just did, and you could see their morale sapping out of the Chamber, and Simon Bridges went on and on in the longest 15 minutes of his life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBut one thing that Simon Bridges did mention\u2014which shows what\u2019s really on his mind\u2014was 2 percent in the polls when he was referring to Shane Jones. Well, if Shane Jones\u2019 preferred rating is 2 percent, the one thing I\u2019d say to Simon Bridges is that at least he\u2019s a net positive. That\u2019s a good thing. I\u2019ve got to say that at least he\u2019s a net positive. But let\u2019s run through a few names here: Richard Worth, Maurice Williamson, Pansy Wong, Judith Collins, Phil Heatley, Nick Smith\u2014so let\u2019s talk about ministerial standards. How many of those people and in how many of those cases did that Prime Minister act as decisively and as quickly as Jacinda Ardern did? Not in any of those cases. In fact, in some of those cases, John Key had to be dragged kicking and screaming to do anything about them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not going to bother wasting the House\u2019s time with 15 minutes on this, because it doesn\u2019t actually require it. There\u2019s one message from the Government on this: the Prime Minister has set very high standards for her Ministers, and if they don\u2019t meet them, there will be consequences in that. Now Clare Curran\u2014I like Clare. She\u2019s a good friend of mine, and I believe that she\u2019s doing a good job. But she failed to meet those standards twice and she has faced the consequences of that failure, and I think that it\u2019s a pretty tough one. I\u2019ve got to say that if there were resignations from the previous Government every time a Minister failed to answer a written parliamentary question correctly more than once, most of that Cabinet would have gone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIn fact, it\u2019s a very, very high threshold. Ministers across all sides of the House, including on this side of the House, give wrong answers. It happens and, I\u2019ll tell you what, it\u2019s embarrassing when it happens. I have one\u2014which I am just about to correct\u2014because Crown Law gave me wrong advice. I relied on that advice in putting out a written parliamentary question answer and it was wrong, and I have just literally, as I\u2019ve sat here, signed the correction\u2014because it was the first time I became aware that the answer was wrong\u2014and that correction will be lodged immediately. But I\u2019ve got to say that a very, very high threshold has been set here, and it\u2019s one that all of us on this side of the House will be very mindful of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThere is a very high threshold for accuracy around written parliamentary questions, as there should be, and I think it\u2019s a message to everybody that we have to get this right. We have to get this right. And yes, we need to do better on open government, but at least we\u2019re aspiring to do so. Unlike the previous Government, who didn\u2019t care about open government, this Government is actually aspiring to make Government a more open and inclusive process, and it\u2019s something that the members on the other side might like to actually think about\u2014the principle at stake here, which is that Government should be open and inclusive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EAnd yes, we\u2019ve got a way to go, because we\u2019ve inherited a culture of secrecy from the last Government, where information wasn\u2019t released, where the Prime Minister, at the very highest level\u2014the Prime Minister encouraged his Ministers publicly to ignore the Official Information Act. He encouraged his Ministers to break the law when it came to releasing information under the Official Information Act. The Prime Minister on this side of the House, Jacinda Ardern, has been very clear that her criteria, her standards, are very high. And that\u2019s a message to all of us that we need to do better, and we need to continue to strive to do better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebaea427195f41f7b003b2b3a04d5893\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebaea427195f41f7b003b2b3a04d5893\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think the Leader of the Opposition actually might have his inquiries mixed up. He spoke about stupidity and he spoke about the use of secret phones\u2014well, clearly that\u2019s a conversation that he\u2019s been having on that side of the House with his own inquiry into his own caucus members. And then he asked about whether or not the Prime Minister had looked them in the eye. Well, my challenge to the Opposition leader is to answer this question in the House today: have you looked your own caucus members in the eye and asked them the question: who did it, yes or no\u2014yes or no, whether he has done that or not already. Clearly, this is a failure of leadership on his part. I\u2019d suggest that he might do his caucus a favour and resign, but I challenge him to do this side of the House a favour and keep to his guns. Stay strong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI rise on behalf of this Government, and specifically on behalf of New Zealand First, to address the puffery from the Opposition leader, and to say to him and those on that side that the Prime Minister has made a hard decision. She made the right decision when she removed the Hon Clare Curran from Cabinet and removed her from those portfolios. Clearly, this Government expects a high level of conduct and integrity from all of its MPs on this side of the House and, most especially, from its Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EMinister Curran\u2019s actions were unacceptable. This Government continues to stand for transparency and accountability, and Minister Curran has taken full responsibility for that and has followed proper process. So the Minister has been removed; definitive and quite hard actions have been taken. She has been removed from Cabinet and two of the portfolios will now be in the hands of the Hon Dr Megan Woods and the Hon Chris Hipkins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThis is a stable Government that stands proudly to say that we have high expectations and we are willing to hold our own to account. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00224b058355a39e4d9da35ed0fbb812fa53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b058355a39e4d9da35ed0fbb812fa53\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, what I don\u2019t understand about the so-called demotion of Clare Curran, and the question that I would like answered, is: how can it be that her behaviour is acceptable for her to be a Minister outside of Cabinet but not be acceptable for her to be a Minister inside Cabinet? What we\u2019ve repeatedly heard is that the punishment is proportionate\u2014yeah? The punishment is proportionate to the crime is what we heard both the Prime Minister say, and it\u2019s certainly what we heard from Minister Curran, kind of, giving her sort of context to it. Proportionate for who? Proportionate for Clare Curran; not actually for the standard that we expect from Ministers and we should expect from Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWe constantly hear that she hasn\u2019t met her own high standards, and in fact the Prime Minister said that in the House this very day\u2014that actually her Minister did not meet her own standard or indeed the Prime Minister\u2019s standards, but she met the standard to remain a Minister in an area and in a role of just such huge responsibility and privilege. That standard was met. Somehow that standard was met. Her own actual poor standards were not met at all, but she\u2019s met the standard to remain being a Minister in a hugely privileged role. Haven\u2019t we seen, as many commentators have said, a level of arrogance by a number of Ministers that one would expect in a third or a fourth-term administration\u2014so arrogant that they make meetings via their Gmail late at night and make sure that other people don\u2019t know about them? I think that\u2019s extraordinary, quite frankly, absolutely extraordinary: weak leadership that accepts that that\u2019s actually the standard that can be set.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWhat we heard from the previous speaker, Minister Chris Hipkins, who was standing up to defend his colleague, is that actually the Prime Minister has set a very high standard. The Prime Minister has set a very low standard\u2014a very low standard. It says you can misrepresent, and in the very week that you are being questioned in Parliament about the standards you\u2019ve set over secret meetings with Carol Hirschfeld, who in the end lost her job\u2014Carol Hirschfeld did; Carol Hirschfeld lost her job and had a major hit to her reputation because of the way that Minister Clare Curran represented a secret meeting that she set up to then have with her\u2014in the same week she was being questioned on that, she set up another secret meeting with a senior person and then totally misrepresented that in a written answer to a colleague. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThat is not right for democracy. It is not the standards one should have in their Cabinet. And by accepting that that is the standard that is acceptable, we have a Prime Minister, who, quite frankly, looks like she has no standards herself, and weak leadership in not standing up to what is absolutely despicable behaviour. [Interruption] It is. It is the behaviour and the arrogance from a Minister who believes in transparent and open government, by the way. I mean everybody can see the absolute irony of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ESo in a made-up portfolio that in itself had nothing much behind it, we now have a Minister who was perhaps the least open and the least transparent out of any of the\u2014what is it?\u201428 members of the executive, and we could go into another whole speech about how many that is and how utterly ridiculous it is. By the way, colleagues, she is still a member of the 28 executive. So she is still in that incredibly privileged role and has met a standard that the Prime Minister thinks is acceptable and above many of her colleagues. So there must be many of them that are sitting there in the second and third bench, looking at her and thinking, \u201CThat is the standard that I actually have to meet to get into Cabinet, and she is better than me and has more value to add than I do.\u201D You can see people like Michael Wood getting really, really antsy about it. The member\u2019s own colleague, Darroch Ball, must be sitting there thinking, \u201CReally? So if Clare Curran is the standard of excellence that this Prime Minister wants as part of her executive, then I\u2019m not up to that standard or better and that\u2019s somehow acceptable?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI just want to go back through this, because this is really important. In the very week that she was being questioned and challenged about a meeting that she did not tell the truth about, with Carol Hirschfeld, who ended up losing her job, it was somehow acceptable for her to organise a secret meeting via her Gmail account with someone late at night, not tell anyone about it, and then forget to mention it in a written question. We had the current Minister of State Services, who previously spoke, who was able to stand up here and justify that it was only about not answering a written question correctly. Yet we all know that that is not the standard of excellence that one should expect from the privileged position of being a Minister in a Government, and I think it\u2019s despicable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s get to the point of this being known\u2014what was it?\u2014on the Monday, but it happened to come out at 4 o\u2019clock on a Friday. So into that great void of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b3e46421ec843fa87e7a71d537a9e8d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Free, open, and transparent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022795e0cd4abd64d569a251a31c2de65b1\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014\u201CLet\u2019s hope it\u2019s lost in the weekend.\u201D But you make an interesting point, Nick Smith. How open and transparent is it to actually drop something at 4 o\u2019clock on a Friday and hope that it gets lost in the weekend sport that this country gets pretty obsessed with\u2014and for good reason, because it is often more interesting than politics\u2014but anyway, just to hope and drop it into that void that everyone knows is between 4 o\u2019clock and 6 o\u2019clock on a Friday and it might get ignored.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ESo knowing it since Monday\u2014by the way, for any poor person that\u2019s actually out there watching this, this happened in February, and then two weeks ago, it was acceptable for the Prime Minister herself to drop this at 4 o\u2019clock and then have the audacity to turn around and lecture us about openness and transparency and kindness, and that\u2019s the standard that\u2019s been set in this current Government and it\u2019s one that won\u2019t be acceptable to New Zealanders and is certainly not acceptable to the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWe are seeing it in the behaviour of other Ministers, quite frankly, and that\u2019s embarrassing. We might be in Opposition but actually we\u2019d quite like to be proud of our country and proud of the work that\u2019s going on. We\u2019ve now, of course, got very serious questions going on with the Minister Meka Whaitiri. She must be sitting there going, \u201CWell, that\u2019s the standard that\u2019s being set, and I just saw a colleague get vaguely demoted.\u201D That kind of arrogance and that kind of behaviour, I tell you what, in the previous two or three Prime Ministers\u2014I will put it, including Bill English and John Key and Helen Clark\u2014none of that would have been acceptable. Absolutely, none of it would have been acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWhat would have happened is we would have had a Prime Minister that looked those two Ministers in the eye and said, \u201CTell me exactly what happened.\u201D\u2014but instead we get dodgy phone calls that might be happening\u2014and then that Prime Minister would make a decision on what should be done. So look them in the eye, actually make a call on things, and show some leadership. Show some standards that you expect from your executive. Show exactly what you want to happen, and then stand up and have the courage of your own convictions to set standards that should be at a level not proportionate for the Minister, actually proportionate for this country. They deserve to have the very best that they possibly can in a Minister, and they\u2019re not getting it in this current Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227964893113d449698334cd490814780b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227964893113d449698334cd490814780b\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Before me sits an irony-free zone. We\u2019ve just had the Leader of the Opposition stand up and talk for I think it was up to 15 minutes\u2014I think he might\u2019ve run a little short\u2014about people conducting behaviour that he didn\u2019t approve of, talking about leadership while sitting behind him\u2014and at that stage the House was full\u2014was someone who leaked all his details not a week ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo here he was, standing here, moving. No wonder he was moving so much, because clearly there would have been a little red mark on his back that he wouldn\u2019t have wanted to settle anywhere between his shoulder blades. To stand here while all that is happening\u2014boy, the stitching on some of those seats must be coming apart considering how much buttocks moving, squeezing, would have been going on as that absolutely ironic tirade came out from the Leader of the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EJust the week before last, I was fortunate enough to be in Canberra with a select committee. We sat there behind the Liberal Party benches as we saw the coup building before our very eyes. We had the pleasure of being out with the Speaker, out with the President of the Senate, and many other MPs on that Monday night when it was all happening. So what we did is we saw\u2014we understand when we see this\u2014a coup in progress, and, boy, it\u2019s good to sit here and watch and see a coup in progress. Oh, Mr Mitchell, you\u2019re laughing. Mr Mitchell, it\u2019s funny; as I watched Peter Dutton, I thought, \u201CAh, Peter Dutton. Who in the Opposition fits the profile of Peter Dutton most?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f66547e9c041450180bab67fdf118d47\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I know it\u2019s a very broad debate, but there is a topic, and I would like the member to come to that topic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1a3626d1f334945a027ffc4479e26c3\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your direction, Madam Deputy Speaker. I\u2019ll just finish, perhaps, on that honourable member. As I say, I just thought\u2014and I was nudging, and there were several of us watching. We thought, \u201CWho fits what role in this particular place?\u201D, and I thought the Peter Dutton of the Opposition is the man I\u2019d watch, who I\u2019d be moving\u2014speaking of having little sniper\u2019s rifle markers on your back; yeah, we know who\u2019s most likely to have one of them, too. So I\u2019ll be watching, Mr Mitchell\u2014I\u2019ll be watching. Of course, there was Julie Bishop there. Well, I looked about\u2014who\u2019s the Julie Bishop in there? Well, there were a few contenders there. Blonde hair\u2014I thought, yeah, that\u2019s a whole field we\u2019ve opened up here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, who was the one that came through? Oh, Mr Morrison. Who\u2019s the real Mr Morrison? Who\u2019s the one that\u2019s actually going to come through? Who\u2019s going to win? Well, I\u2019m just sitting watching. We\u2019ll watch that\u2014it\u2019s great. I sit up the back there most of the time. It\u2019s a great place to watch; you can watch the body language. So we\u2019ll be taking a few bets on our side of the House. In fact, I might even run a book on it, and we\u2019ll see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo, coming back from Australia, I feel like I\u2019m fairly accomplished in watching coups take place, and, boy, I loved what I saw over there. But on a more serious note, Madam Deputy Speaker\u2014and I\u2019ll take your advice and come back to the topic\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224928c2858a284ab9bc1b1d8f6a2afdae\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: To the topic would be nice. To the topic\u2014yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022530fdab291084efbbdfcbf2f573a0538\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker. I was speaking too loud\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c3d14a79554a1ebb9e31d9167bef16\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, I want you to speak to the topic. It would be very refreshing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284397ddad5a74e52a02a9e3c8f1bc947\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, right\u2014back to the topic. When I came to this House\u2014and I\u2019m a very new member\u2014one thing I\u2019ve always respected, and, of course, Mr Mitchell will be the same, is good, decisive leadership\u2014tinged also with kindness. We know where we stand, and, boy, on this side we know where we stand now, and that\u2019s absolutely necessary. Consistency is also what we like, and the word Oravida comes to mind there about consistency. I\u2019ve loved it, again, when I\u2019ve heard the Opposition on the other side talking about what\u2019s happened over here. But just going back to Oravida, I sat there, and at that stage I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227be536fe1ac4434c8f6f46bcde48cff6\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I really reluctantly interrupt the speaker, because I do respect a general debate, but, actually, this is blatantly about Clare Curran and her being stood down. We\u2019ve not heard her name mentioned once. We\u2019ve not seen that addressed at all, and we\u2019re at nearly five minutes, and I think that it does need to be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc3b3ac6f6aa43f096ac762e46617a5d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I actually support that point of order. I have spoken to the member twice, and if the member does not come to the topic for this urgent debate\u2014it\u2019s not a general debate; it\u2019s an urgent debate\u2014then I will have to curtail his time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cb19e456f5546b19bd969286a12f298\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your direction there, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will come now\u2014because I think I do like to build some context for my point in this debate. One of my main points in this debate is this: look, I agree with my colleague; I think I\u2019ve seen what\u2019s happened with the Hon Clare Curran and I\u2019ve seen what\u2019s happened. She\u2019s been, really, the personification of what we understand now is the expected standard of behaviour. We will be left with no doubt on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBut can I just make a little more serious point around this. I in no way justify what\u2019s happened and absolutely agree with the decision of Jacinda Ardern, our Prime Minister, around this. But can I just finish by saying it will be a shame if Ministers can\u2019t actually have conversations with people\u2014casual conversations. I\u2019m not justifying what happened, but it would be a shame if, as a result of this, Ministers never actually got to have conversations off the grid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBut thank you very much for the opportunity to speak, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I\u2019ll just say I\u2019m very proud to be part of an organisation, of a party, that shows the decisive leadership that has been shown on this occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd195cfb7cdc4df0af001a02d71d9268\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd195cfb7cdc4df0af001a02d71d9268\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E That speech was nearly as big an embarrassment as Clare Curran is as a Minister. This is almost comical in what has occurred. We have a Minister of open Government\u2014actually, the very first Minister of open Government that\u2019s ever existed in this Parliament\u2014and the promise of the Minister of open Government was to be the most open and transparent Government that this country has ever had, and then what we find out from that Minister is that not once but twice that Minister behaved in a secretive, in a sneaky, and in a dirty way. The contributions from Greg O\u2019Connor and Chris Hipkins in this debate show that the Government doesn\u2019t get it. If you come to this Parliament as a new Government promising to be open and transparent\u2014surprise, surprise! We expect you to practise what you preach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, let\u2019s come to the events that have led to Clare Curran\u2019s resignation as the Minister of open Government. Firstly, we had the incident with Radio New Zealand. Let\u2019s understand how important that is. A free, politically neutral media goes to the heart of how our democracy works. We are not\u2014well, I hope we\u2019re not; I sometimes doubt it when I hear members opposite\u2014one of those countries where we have a State media that just spins the Government line, like you might get in North Korea or Zimbabwe. Here we have Clare Curran having private, secret meetings with the head of news\u2014not some public servant. What is the Minister of broadcasting doing having meetings\u2014secret meetings\u2014with the head of news at Radio New Zealand? There wouldn\u2019t be a member in this House, not even my newest colleagues, that wouldn\u2019t have a feeling that, well, that doesn\u2019t feel quite right. \u201CI\u2019m the Minister of broadcasting; I shouldn\u2019t really be having secret meetings with the head of Radio New Zealand news.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut here\u2019s the part that has me gobsmacked: the week after this Parliament admonishes her for being dishonest about the secret meeting, guess what Clare Curran does? She arranges another secret meeting, this time wearing the portfolio as the Minister of digital technologies. I\u2019ve been here for 28 years. I\u2019ve seen some Ministers goof it up. What I have never seen is a dicky Minister commit exactly the same crime just one week after there\u2019s a massive controversy. Now, as Simon Bridges correctly said, there are only two possibilities here. Either she\u2019s dumb, or she\u2019s dishonest. I\u2019m sorry, there can only be two explanations for that course of events that has occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s dig into the issue of the appointment of the information officer for the Government. Now, is there a single member of this Parliament that doesn\u2019t understand the neutrality of the Public Service? I heard lectures all the time, when we were in Government, about respecting the neutrality. I even heard speeches from Clare Curran lecturing the previous Government about the neutrality of the Public Service. I have never heard of a Minister privately and secretly meeting about the appointment of a very senior public servant to be made by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI challenge members opposite to tell me a single example that you can think of in the last 20 to 30 years, where a Government appointment has been made and that has been done in a secret meeting. I can tell you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I\u2019ve had 14 different ministerial portfolios. I have never had a meeting in 14 years about which my ministerial staff did not know. What is going on in the culture of the ministerial offices of this Government that they have to keep meetings that they\u2019ve having secret?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a3791d6ba8c407f90c6a92124871767\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Did you tell everyone about the Bronwyn Pullar meeting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269863ac7421643a0852f04ff1b7fdaea\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Megan Woods is interjecting. I say to Megan Woods: how many meetings have you had that you\u2019ve kept secret from your ministerial staffers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c61d0fb15bf43e08d92566bf88126b7\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Two words: Bronwyn Pullar\u2014Bronwyn Pullar! Tell us how many meetings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa09759e77194b04bcc8bf828902cf8e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Andrew Little\u2019s confessing he has secret meetings without his ministerial staffers knowing, and all that reminds me of, including the interjections, is how low the standards of integrity have already fallen in this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EYou see, the members opposite campaigned on being the most open, transparent Government ever. My criticism this afternoon is not just of Clare Curran. I want to go to the Prime Minister. How open and transparent was it for the Prime Minister to announce Clare Curran\u2019s resignation at 4 p.m. on a Friday? Does that meet the standard of the members opposite for the standards of openness and transparency? Strange silence. They have their heads hung, across on those Government benches, and appropriately so, because this actually goes deeper\u2014deeper than just Clare Curran. This goes to the heart of and to the character of the Government we now have, because it\u2019s not just in the area of open and transparent Government that there is a canyon between the promise and the performance. Actually, if you dig into every single area of this Government, it\u2019s all as though if they say words, somehow that delivers results for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the bit from Clare Curran that I found extraordinary from the Government. You have the Government announce that open Government is so important that we\u2019re going to have to have a strategy for open Government. So members of the Cabinet opposite produce a 24-page open Government strategy, and members on this side of the House ask Clare Curran: can we have a copy of the strategy under the Official Information Act? And here\u2019s the comical part. Every single page of the open Government strategy was kept secret\u2014was kept secret. Now, it would be hilarious if it were not so serious. Again, it illustrates the gulf between the promise of this Government and its performance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the last part: does any member of this House recall any time in the last 30 years where you\u2019ve had two Ministers, effectively, fall over in one week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227e007095caa4dd4837199dc4609897e\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227758424a077446d68e97bf400ec96eb8\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: That is a shambles. That is the sort of incompetence that is now being shown in this Government, and it\u2019s more serious than this. This is a Government that\u2019s been lecturing New Zealanders about issues of physical violence, and it\u2019s being practised by one of its Ministers. Isn\u2019t that extraordinary? And then we have the incident over the same recess of their secret report on the Labour Party camp. I challenge members opposite: where is the openness and transparency when you commission a report about the awful incident that occurred at the Labour camp over the sexual abuse of young people and keep it secret?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo whether it is on sexual abuse issues, whether it\u2019s on physical violence, or whether it is on open Government, this is a Government that says one thing and does the opposite. They have lost their moral authority, and the resignation of Clare Curran is just a smell of the rot that exists within this Government, in which they are promising New Zealanders one thing and delivering the exact opposite. Any Prime Minister\u2014whether it was Bill English, whether it was John Key, whether it was Helen Clark\u2014would have dealt with the Clare Curran issue that occurred way back in February far more decisively, and it equally applies to the very serious accusations that I have not heard of in 30 years of a Minister assaulting a staff member. The rot in this Government runs very, very deep indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022a35d54d43eb1495197fcbb514f2f42b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a35d54d43eb1495197fcbb514f2f42b8\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, goodness me! If we\u2019ve ever heard a case of the pot calling the kettle black, that absolutely had to be the finest contribution that we could have ever had from an Opposition member, who was, if I recall, demoted from his rank as a former Minister for ACC for having secret meetings with a former client of that ministry that I think he probably wishes he\u2019d put in his diary. So if we want to get really frank about previous ministerial behaviour, I think that some of those members currently sitting on the Opposition benches need to take some hard time to reflect on their previous administration\u2019s lack of administration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ELook, they say in sport that the best defence is offence. And if I was the member for Tauranga right now, I\u2019d be wanting to put up a mighty good defence to cast away any light that could ever be put on me, because I\u2019d know I had a bright light, a burning light, a sniper-red light shining at the back of my head that I would not want to draw any further attention to\u2014whether that be the polls that I know that the member from Tauranga will be seeing crashing down or whether that\u2019s public opinion about the fact that they have some internal squeaky leaks that they need to tidy up on the Opposition benches. They will do whatever they need to do to distract from the fact that they are on a sinking ship with a captain that\u2019s losing credibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI turn to the matter at hand. The question is whether our Prime Minister has acted with decisiveness, with certainty, and with a steady hand. What we\u2019ve seen from our Prime Minister in the management of Minister Curran has been absolutely decisive, has been absolutely steely, and has been absolutely assertive. Therefore, it is with great pleasure that I can say we stand as a Government that is prepared to act in a determined, decisive, and swift manner in holding our Ministers to a high account. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u00223c0603f4e7e04682a2e7d4dcf3767b34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c0603f4e7e04682a2e7d4dcf3767b34\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Yes, that previous member, Kiritapu Allan, said \u201Ca Government that would like to act\u201D, and I agree with that\u2014act in an underhanded and sneaky manner. They are a dodgy Government. The thing I think that this demotion of Clare Curran highlights most of all is that Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is weak and indecisive. She\u2019s indecisive because it took five days from once, apparently, she knew about Ms Curran\u2019s second indiscretion to finally make a decision public. It\u2019s kind of odd, isn\u2019t it, that that decision was made public at 4.30 on a Friday afternoon, right about the time when the bad news dump might get hidden in the weekend\u2019s activities. She\u2019s weak\u2014weak in that all she did was strip her of a couple of portfolios.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThe message that the Prime Minister sent to New Zealand, and indeed to her own caucus, in taking just a couple of portfolios was that if you\u2019re a Cabinet Minister, openness and transparency apply, but if you\u2019re a Minister outside Cabinet you don\u2019t need to worry about any of that stuff. You can be as sneaky as you want to be, because Ms Curran remains a Minister outside Cabinet. She still gets a good salary, gets the privileges like the ride in the Beemer\u2014there\u2019s hardly a punishment there at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u201CProportionate\u201D, the Prime Minister says. Proportionate? I don\u2019t think that\u2019s the way the rest of New Zealand sees this at all. What they see is what they heard. When the Government came in they said this would be the most open and transparent Government New Zealand had ever had. So New Zealanders expect that what they\u2019ll see is what it says on the tin. Instead, what they get is at least one Minister who hides meetings, and then gets a little bit sort of clever about what that first meeting with Carol Hirschfeld was about, and in the second case simply tries to sweep it under the carpet to begin with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EI was quite astounded because when the information dump came out, what did become clear was that Mr Handley approached Minister Curran about the possibilities of the Chief Technology Officer role, and they sort of conversed via Twitter about whether they might meet. It was Minister Curran that initiated an email exchange that led to the appointment being made, and she did so on her private Gmail account\u2014not on a ministerial mail account, not on a parliamentary mail account. She carries, probably, two mobile devices: a BlackBerry for secure communications that Ministers are required to have, and probably an iPhone for other communications, I would have thought. She had plenty of opportunity and ability to communicate with Mr Handley to set that meeting up using parliamentary devices. She chose instead to use a private email account. Now, there\u2019s only one thing New Zealanders are going to take from that, and that is the Minister was deliberately seeking to make that a secret meeting. She had no intention of anyone ever finding out about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EAll that happens when that underhandedness is finally uncovered is she gets a minor demotion\u2014a minor demotion. That\u2019s weak government, weak leadership from the Prime Minister. Her actions and the limited sanction actually warrant an investigation, if you will. They warrant the Prime Minister and her Government actually being open with us for once. We deserve\u2014New Zealanders deserve\u2014to know what communications, what conversations were had between either that Minister or other Ministers around the appointment process of this Government\u2019s Chief Technology Officer role, because there are just so many questions. We don\u2019t know. We don\u2019t know how many other times things have been hidden. We don\u2019t know what conversations have been had. We don\u2019t know what influence Ministers may have tried to have over that appointment process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EOne thing we do know is that Mr Handley did apply for the job, and he applied for the job in the second wave of recruitment, at or before the closing time for those applications. And then on 9 June he was interviewed by Lisa Owen on The Nation in his capacity as a technology entrepreneur. He was asked questions directly about the characteristics of a Chief Technology Officer, knowing he\u2019d applied for it. So he was asked what he thought the right characteristics were\u2014deeply conflicted\u2014and then asked if it was him for the role, and he fudged that too. This is a senior Public Service role. He completely failed the test of managing conflicts of interest, and he could yet be appointed to that role. It certainly calls into question his fitness for that role, but equally, behind that, given that all the rumour is that he will be appointed, I think it\u2019s important that we know what influence Ministers might have had or tried to have on his appointment to the role, because there\u2019s more to come from this yet. Ms Curran deserves to be sitting down the back of the House, and that\u2019s what a strong Prime Minister would have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9100130406d496686fa4ffd42a859a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9100130406d496686fa4ffd42a859a1\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Technically this call should have been a 10-minute Labour call, but the Greens didn\u2019t take their call, which means that proportionality has been slightly affected, so I\u2019m going to give a five-minute call each to National and Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4c92d15f79b419e876aabd6c6fe651a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4c92d15f79b419e876aabd6c6fe651a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E I stand here today proud to be a member of a ministry led by the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern, a woman who shows leadership, who shows fairness, and who shows proportionality. Minister Clare Curran has paid a hefty price for behaviour that she has admitted herself was not up to the standards demanded by our Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern. She has been stripped of two portfolios and she has been placed outside Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, I want us to actually just calm down a little in this House and actually think about what has happened. A Minister did not meet standards. She did not record a meeting in her diary. Was this something that was revealed by the Opposition? Was this something that came out? No. This is something that the Prime Minister found out about and then dealt with openly. Did she try to sweep it under the carpet? No. She dealt with it fairly, she dealt with it decisively, and she dealt with it transparently. She was the one who made public what had happened with Ms Curran\u2019s failure to record the meeting in her diary after it was found out, and I think we should keep that proportionality in mind. That is what leadership looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve had here is a lot of behaviour that begins with the letter \u201Ch\u201D\u2014a word that we can\u2019t say in this House\u2014from members on the opposite benches this afternoon. To have Paula Bennett standing there talking about standards when Ms Bennett, as a Minister, released the details of two beneficiaries who dared to criticise her Government\u2014well, I think she should come back and talk about the standards that her boss, John Key, required of her, because that is despicable behaviour. Then for Nick Smith to stand there and say that to do things twice was unbelievable\u2014well, Mr Smith, you intervened on Bronwyn Pullar\u2019s case not once but twice. It wasn\u2019t just once.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo this is a rough place, and this is a workplace where the consequences for not meeting standards are high. Ms Curran has not met the standards demanded by Jacinda Ardern, and she has paid the price. But I think what we need to do is we need to make sure that when we\u2019re standing in the Opposition benches having a go, we actually think back about other things that have happened over the life of this House. This is a place where perhaps we do have to accept that when people make mistakes they pay a price bigger than in most workplaces. I am proud of the kind of leadership we are seeing from Jacinda Ardern. She is a leader who is leading by example. She is a leader who is demanding the highest ever standards of her Ministers, who is dealing with issues as they come up and not attempting to sweep them under the carpet, as we saw from the previous administration. So what we have is an unfortunate situation where a member of this House has paid a price, and we have a Prime Minister who we can rightly be proud of. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00224c0820f9e0944a42b71b852215ee6e21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c0820f9e0944a42b71b852215ee6e21\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Well, here we are back after a fortnight\u2019s adjournment, and when I reflect back on that last fortnight, what a terrible period it has been for the current Government. We\u2019ve had Shane Jones with his attacks on Christopher Luxon, his attacks on Fonterra at an event that I attended, and all sorts of other things. We\u2019ve had Willie Jackson with his tongue running away with him in an interview for which he was fundamentally ill prepared. And we have had two Ministers who have fallen on their swords, either because one has been demoted or because the other has been forced to stand aside. As the last Minister of Customs, I have to say I am watching with particular interest what happens with that inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut today, of course, we are focusing on the other Minister who\u2019s in trouble, and, as the Hon Dr Nick Smith noted a short time ago, this is an issue that goes to the very heart and character of the current Government. And so, much as the Hon Dr Megan Woods might like to trivialise the importance of this particular issue, it is very important. There is a very high threshold that is required for the Speaker to set aside the business of this House and grant an urgent debate. This issue met that threshold, and so it behoves the members opposite, the members of the Government, to engage in the debate and to come up with substantive reasons to defend what their Prime Minister has done. What we\u2019ve seen, though, is members either being reluctant to take calls at all or taking very short calls and, in some cases, speaking totally off the subject.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIt isn\u2019t just once that the Hon Clare Curran has committed a significant indiscretion that is unbecoming of a Minister; she\u2019s done it twice. She\u2019s done it twice in one calendar year\u2014and, as Brett Hudson\u2019s mentioned, at least twice. This debate highlights the weakness of the current Prime Minister in being able to run a ministry and set and demand the standards that are required of Ministers\u2014well-paid Ministers who must meet a very high standard of public service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIn the current Prime Minister\u2019s desire to minimise the damage that these incidents have done to her ministry, she has failed in her duty to New Zealanders. She has failed to set and enforce high standards. She has failed to insist that the earlier mistake over the Carol Hirschfeld secret appointment, that got Clare Curran into trouble in the first instance, was unacceptable and must never be repeated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAnd yet what sort of responses have we had from members opposite? I thought the member for \u014Ch\u0101riu would take his chance today to really hammer home his audition for a place in Cabinet, but instead he produced his best Uriah Heep impression. He wrung his hands, he rocked from side to side, and he alternately grimaced and chortled, but he said absolutely nothing about the Hon Clare Curran and her conduct or her indiscretions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs the member who\u2019s looking down knows, that Minister has now offended twice in the same year. So why is it that that Minister is still a Minister of the Crown\u2014albeit now outside Cabinet? She\u2019s now being paid a lower salary, as a Minister outside Cabinet, but she\u2019s only got half the workload. And I\u2019m here thinking, well, surely, if you\u2019ve only got half the workload, your pay would go down by half as well, wouldn\u2019t it? But, oh no, there she still is because the current Prime Minister won\u2019t rock the boat any more than she feels is absolutely necessary. I\u2019m left wondering: is the current Labour Party caucus so bereft of talent, so bereft of potential, that there is nobody else who could do a better job, particularly in the role of Minister for open government. I mean, it is absolutely bizarre that somebody who held that portfolio should have committed these indiscretions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAnd, as I say, we\u2019ve had the Hon Dr Megan Woods seeking to trivialise the issue and suggesting that the Prime Minister\u2019s response was proportionate. Well, it was not. This is not good enough. This Government needs to sharpen up quickly, tidy up its act, set much higher standards, show the public that they are focused on dealing with the important issues that they have been charged with as they lead the Government of this country, and not lurch from crisis to crisis, sideshow to sideshow, in a way that totally undermines the confidence that the New Zealand public have in their Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df269f46789646e186fa8c255c9de5a3\u0022\u003ECanterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002240c0f84aa2d14d3389b8bf761947265b\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022123f08c0a4bf4faba08ae00c823e9390\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022123f08c0a4bf4faba08ae00c823e9390\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Governance and Administration Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s been eight years\u2014in fact, to the day\u2014since the first Canterbury earthquakes of 2010 and a little less time since the big earthquakes of 2011, starting with the first major earthquake that year, on 22 February, and yet thousands of insurance claims arising from those earthquakes remain unresolved. This delay has left many Cantabrians feeling weary and frustrated, and we saw an expression of that in the weekend just gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis bill\u2014the Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill\u2014establishes a specialist tribunal and a fully funded mediation service to help the people of Canterbury resolve longstanding residential insurance claims. I believe the tribunal will act as a circuit-breaker for these claims and provide people with the closure that they have long deserved. The tribunal has been developed to be homeowner initiated to ensure that policyholders feel empowered and in control of their situation. The bill puts the choice to access the tribunal in the hands of policyholders by allowing them, rather than insurers or the Earthquake Commission (EQC), to apply to the tribunal. I know this has been an issue of some controversy for some, but what is absolutely evident is that those who are missing out, those who have been seeking justice for so long are the policyholders and the insured parties, not the insurance companies and not EQC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis tribunal is not intended to replace the courts or any other dispute resolution process. Rather, it has been developed as an alternative, to provide policyholders with the option of choosing a pathway that is tailored specifically to the Canterbury earthquake\u2019s context, with emphasis on speed, flexibility, and cost effectiveness. If parties have already filed claims in court, the policy holder can apply to transfer the case to the tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAs a specialist body, the tribunal will have jurisdiction to consider residential insurance claims between policyholders and their insurers or EQC. However, in some circumstances, the tribunal can join other potentially liable parties to the claim, such as a builder, where it\u2019s necessary to reach a fair or speedy resolution. Claims must relate to damage caused by the Canterbury earthquakes of 2010 and 2011. The purpose of the tribunal is to help homeowners in Canterbury, many of whom have been waiting a long time for resolution. To make sure the tribunal can deliver speedy resolution and that certain cases remain with the courts, the tribunal will not consider claims related to onsold properties. Some legal issues emerging from these claims are novel and may have no clear precedent, and I consider that they are more appropriately considered by the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe tribunal has been designed to provide processes that are easy for Cantabrians to access. There will be no application fee to access the tribunal, and people can choose whether or not to bring a lawyer. To ensure people feel supported throughout the process, they also have the option of choosing to be represented by someone who is not a lawyer. Detailed guidance will be available to help people feel prepared and informed about what to expect at the tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOne of the key elements of the tribunal process is its flexibility. We know that the remaining insurance claims are complex and that a one-size-fits-all approach would be unhelpful. This is why there will be no standard process that all claims must follow; rather, the bill allows the resolution process to be tailored to the needs of each claim. The tribunal will take a proactive approach to case management and work closely with the parties to find the most appropriate way to resolution. Case management conferences can be used as often as necessary. These meetings will bring the parties together to exchange views, identify issues in dispute, and work collaboratively towards resolution. The tribunal can also use these meetings to set time frames for each stage of the process so that claims continue to progress without unnecessary delays.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe tribunal has a number of powers to help it consider claims. For example, it will be able to appoint independent experts. These experts will play a key role in helping the tribunal to understand complex information and will be able to provide an independent view of competing expert opinions. It is about trying to remove one of the big impediments to the resolution of claims at the moment, and that is the war amongst experts. We\u2019ve got to bring that stuff to an end and have experts available to a tribunal like this who can be arbiters of technical difference, and so bring claims much closer to resolution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve decided to include an independent and fully funded mediation service within the tribunal process. Mediation empowers parties to settle disputes themselves. It can also be a useful tool to help narrow down the issues in dispute and provide a confidential environment for the parties to speak freely. However, it\u2019s important to acknowledge that, after eight years, parties may already have tried to settle their claims through other dispute resolution processes. Therefore, the bill gives the tribunal flexibility to decide on a case by case basis when mediation will be helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt will also be able to refer parties to mediation more than once if required, or direct a claim straight to a formal hearing without mediation. It\u2019s not unusual in situations like this with complex claims where parties have reached, frankly, a stand-off situation, that once they get into a process such as that contemplated under this tribunal, they do find common ground and the points of difference are not as great as the parties might have once thought, and so it\u2019s appropriate to have an avenue open to the parties where they can restart or retry mediation to try to bring them to resolution. As we know, the strongest and most enduring resolutions are those achieved by agreement, rather than being imposed on the parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWhen determining claims, the tribunal will apply existing law, precedent, and the terms of any relevant insurance contract. You would expect that. The rule of law will continue to apply. But this means the tribunal will apply the same legal rules that are applied in court. A tribunal decision will be enforceable as a District Court order and tribunal decisions will able to able to be appealed on matters of fact and law to the High Court and with the leave of the High Court. Appeals beyond the High Court will be on matters of law only.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe want the tribunal to work for those people who are still waiting for resolution. That\u2019s nearly 3,000 claims sitting in courts or sitting with insurance companies for resolution. These people have waited too long. It was the explicit promise of all parties who make up this Government in the election campaign last year to explore ways to find a more speedy, more flexible, more custom-tailored means of resolution for their insurance claims. I am confident that with this bill and this tribunal we have found a means for those Cantabrians still waiting for resolution to achieve resolution in a speedy and efficacious way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe want the tribunal to work for those people who have waited for so long and I encourage members of the public, now that the bill is here and will go to a select committee, to provide submissions during that process. We need to hear the stories, we need to hear from those people who are waiting for resolution of their insurance claims, and we need to hear from the insurance companies, and indeed EQC themselves. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022040377faae9a4a748d1a5a1f2c1686da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022040377faae9a4a748d1a5a1f2c1686da\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I\u2019d like to begin my speech on the Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill by pointing out that the National Party will be supporting this to select committee, but we do have major reservations about the bill, and I\u2019ll go through those points now. Before I do that, we all have great empathy with the people that are still trying to get their insurance claims settled\u2014and who wouldn\u2019t? To try and find a way to resolve those as quickly as possible is of course something we all support. However, it\u2019s not as simple as it might sound. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBut this bill has gone through a rushed process. There\u2019s been a lack of consultation. There was no consultation with the claimants, there was no consultation with the Earthquake Commission, there was no consultation with Southern Response, and there was no consultation with the experts\u2014from engineering experts to building experts to legal experts\u2014who are involved in these cases. It seems also the Minister was unwilling to take advice from his own ministry and other ministries. It was an election promise which the Ministry of Justice in fact advised against. We\u2019re still waiting for answers about the onsold homes, which won\u2019t be able to take part in this process. These are the most complex of issues, and they have been specifically excluded from this process, and so the Government needs to give some answers on that because that will make up a significant number of those unresolved claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThere are 3,600-odd claims that are remaining, and most of them are complex, and it quite specifically states that no complex or novel claims will be considered by the tribunal. So those claims that are already in the courts\u2014they also won\u2019t be considered by the tribunal unless they seek leave to move from there, and none of the remaining claims that are too complex will be considered. In fact, the regulatory impact statement on 14 July says it expects that most of the outstanding claims are complex, so quite a small number, I suspect, out of those 3,600 will actually be suitable to go into this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe appointment of tribunal members is also an area of concern for us because there\u2019s carte blanche for the Minister to appoint members to that tribunal. However, there\u2019s no requirement for any qualifications for those members. I would have thought at the very least a law degree would have been the minimum\u2014also, I would have thought some experience in practising in this area\u2014and I\u2019m very concerned about that. It seems to me that the only way to get around this would be to have an appointments panel. I think that appointments panel should have a High Court judge chairing it, with some others on that tribunal, in order to appoint the people who would have relevant qualifications and be able to handle these claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWhile they won\u2019t accept complex claims, quite where \u201Ccomplex\u201D starts and ends we don\u2019t know, and so there will be some quite significant claims and complexity to deal with for that tribunal, and, if the members of that tribunal don\u2019t have the relevant qualifications and the relevant experience to judge these submissions based on their merits not on the emotions involved, we\u2019re only going to be seeing more problems caused rather than solved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EIt can also transfer claims back to the courts. That means any claims that are too complex could go into the tribunal process then simply be transferred back to the courts. That will only slow the process down, and that\u2019s something that we should be trying to avoid. So it\u2019s, effectively, a doubling up on the court system. We all want good results, but we don\u2019t want results that are only going to slow things down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EIt also means that there are less experts to go around. The experts that are involved in hearing and working on these cases can be in the High Court, they can be in the District Court, and now they can also be operating in a tribunal. So they can only spread themselves so far, and I think this is going to be one of the major problems with this. In fact, in the regulatory impact statement dated 2 February, I quote, \u201CClaims may take just as long, or longer, to be resolved through the new tribunal than under the status quo. This is due to the risk that it will be difficult to ensure sufficient numbers of technical experts are available to produce technical reports. \u2026 The need for suitably qualified lawyers \u2026 may also create [significant challenges].\u201D That\u2019s a very serious matter, and a significant part of solving these issues are those experts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo it won\u2019t be speedy, as has been claimed. There is the lack of experts and geotechnical engineers and lawyers, as I\u2019ve alluded to. They\u2019re already caught up in the courts. And when will this particular tribunal be up and running? It\u2019s envisaged to be in March. I submit that it would be a far better course, as was advised by one of the reports, to have a mediation service instead of a tribunal and enhance the status quo. I think that would have been far more effective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThere is no requirement of a cross-examination\u2014in fact, it\u2019s only at the discretion of the tribunal\u2014and yet members, and particularly the Minister, I advise, should look at Parkin v Vero to see in that case where an expert under cross-examination admitted that the evidence that they had submitted was a cut and paste that had been done by the counsel representing the claimant. So if you don\u2019t have the ability to cross-examine those witnesses, how do you find out and tease those particular issues out? That is why we have cross-examination in the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe tribunal doesn\u2019t have to hold hearings, even. It can decide based on papers alone, and, again, I think that\u2019s a very dangerous route to go down. Parties are unable to make submissions if questions of law are referred to the High Court\u2014well, that\u2019s usually the case anyway\u2014and non-lawyer representatives are not bound by any ethical standards, and that\u2019s really important. We\u2019ve seen examples in Christchurch of claimants wishing to settle but being unable to do so because of the terms and conditions they signed up to with the person who is representing them\u2014and they were quite outrageous in one case. There\u2019s no code of ethics for them. I think that there should be, at a very minimum, an ethical standard for those people involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EUnequal access\u2014as the Minister said, insurers can\u2019t take claims to the tribunal, only claimants can, and that\u2019s outside of normal practice in our law, and I think that\u2019s something to be concerned about. The departmental disclosure statement states that there is inequality in access in there. In fact, I\u2019ve never seen reports so critical on a Government bill. I think that\u2019s really quite poor, and it doesn\u2019t reflect well on the Minister, unfortunately. It raises concerns of natural justice, and, particularly, when you can\u2019t cross-examine and when we have unequal access, I think that\u2019s something\u2014a major tenet of our law\u2014that is being trodden over on this. As I\u2019ve said, the mediation, I think, would\u2019ve been a better course of action\u2014and, in fact, the Ministry of Justice recommended that\u2014and I think extra money into the Residential Advisory Service, working alongside the mediation, would\u2019ve been a far more effective strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe final point I want to make is about damages for mental distress. Currently in our law, damages for mental distress are not available in contract law; they\u2019re only available to be argued for tort claims. So this is a major departure from our legal system as it stands today. In fact, I refer the Minister to Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s unsuccessful case, where he argued for damages of this kind in contract law in Parkin v Vero, where that claim was lost. I think the Minister would gain valuable insight as to why that should not be available in the tribunal and under contract law. That is a longstanding principle in our law, dating back many, many years, and I think it\u2019s a very dangerous state of affairs to trample all over that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo we will be supporting this to the select committee. The select committee has a lot of work to do\u2014work that should\u2019ve been done by the Minister\u2014and it doesn\u2019t reflect well on him. However, we will ensure that that select committee process follows through and does that work that should\u2019ve been done before. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022daf4fc6ab5704073a92b95f1bbffd5bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022daf4fc6ab5704073a92b95f1bbffd5bb\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s an absolute privilege to rise in support of this bill, which will make an enormous difference in Christchurch and in Canterbury. I want to begin by acknowledging my colleague the Hon Andrew Little for bringing this bill to this House. Andrew is not only a man who had the very good sense to marry a Christchurch woman but also a man who was with us on the day of the 22 February earthquake, and who has spent a lot of time in Christchurch over the last eight years, speaking and meeting with people who have been going through the trauma that is having an unsettled insurance claim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EToday, in my contribution, I want to focus on the human element of this bill, because this is a bill that will change lives, Madam Assistant Speaker, as I know you know. It will restore hope to our people. It will help people get their homes fixed and, most importantly, their lives back on track eight years on from an earthquake. I think that for many people who live outside Christchurch and Canterbury, it is very hard to imagine that eight years on there are still, literally, thousands of people who are stuck fighting the Earthquake Commission (EQC) or their insurance companies to get their homes properly mended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI want to take this point in my speech to acknowledge today the eighth anniversary of the sequence\u2014the beginning of the sequence\u2014of earthquakes that changed our city and region for ever, and the enormous impact it has had on the people of that area, and the number of people who have shone over the last eight years. But I also want to acknowledge the people that have struggled, because we know there are many of them, and that is what today is about. I am enormously proud that on this eighth anniversary, this Government can deliver on its promises to the people of Canterbury to do things differently. Too many people are trapped, unable to move on with their lives, and I think that is unimaginable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis tribunal is about giving people a way out, about giving them a tool to help break through that deadlock. This is part of a pipeline of initiatives that this Government is putting in place so that we can finally deal with the thousands of unresolved insurance claims in Canterbury. It is not the only thing. In December, we put money into the RAS when that funding was due to run out\u2014the Residential Advisory Service. We have expanded the mandate of that service and we are continuing to do so. For us as a Government, doing nothing, or doing what had happened over the last eight years, was not an option. The status quo has not worked. There are thousands of people who cannot get on with their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EAs an electorate MP in Wigram in Christchurch\u2014as I know electorate MPs all over our city have\u2014I\u2019ve spent the last eight years seeing first-hand this struggle that people have gone through, and the thousands of pieces of correspondence that we receive on a daily basis. I want to read a very recent piece of correspondence that I received from a woman in her 60s to tell me about the limbo that she\u2019s living in: \u201CI live with four-by-twos diagonally bolted through my lounge carpet, propping the middle wall of my house up\u2014house unpainted, leaks in my roof, angry neighbours because the shared driveway is not repaired and can\u2019t be done until a resolution on my property. For the past eight years, I\u2019ve not invited friends to my home because of the embarrassment of the condition of it.\u201D I am not content for people in Christchurch and Canterbury to continue in this hell, and this is why we, on this side of the House, are taking action. Just think what it would be like if that was your life, your mother, your auntie, or your grandmother that was living through that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve heard some of the concerns that the Opposition have, and I hope they can be allayed in select committee, because I think most of them are misplaced. The Opposition spokesperson Stuart Smith said that he thought that a mediation service would be better. Well, there will be a mediation service. The Minister outlined in his speech that as part of the pipeline and the suite of services\u2014the change that we are bringing\u2014we know that an alternative dispute resolution service through mediation will be required, but what we are not content to do is waste millions of dollars in the courts when there are other ways to do this. In the last three years, EQC alone has spent $21.8 million in the courts defending cases, many of which it lost, and that doesn\u2019t count the millions of dollars that the people of Canterbury have had to spend in the courts. This is why we are going to do something different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe Opposition spokesperson was also concerned that this service wouldn\u2019t be able to deal with complex claims, and said that most of the remaining claims are complex. It\u2019s true, some of them are, but I can tell you that at the rate of re-repairs coming in, particularly to EQC, there are a number of claims sitting there that could so much more productively be solved through an alternative dispute resolution service such as this. There are many thousands of lives that can be changed by this. There are 3,600 unsolved EQC claims at last count\u2014600 with Southern Response and thousands more with the other private insurers. We\u2019re talking up to 10,000 people in Canterbury who cannot get on with their lives. If this tribunal can help some of them, then it is a worthwhile addition to the pipeline of services that we have available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EStuart Smith was also concerned that we wouldn\u2019t be appointing people with the right qualifications. It stands to reason that what we have said\u2014and we have publicly said that we see people of the calibre of retired High Court judges, senior members of the legal profession, being the right people to sit there. We also don\u2019t agree that this will slow things down, because the other bit of the regulatory impact statement that the Opposition spokesperson didn\u2019t go into is that it said only if there wasn\u2019t enough expert advice available. We haven\u2019t been content just to keep doing the same thing that happened for the seven years before we got into Government; we have been talking to professional bodies about how we can make sure that that expert help is there for people, because we will not let people languish in the way they have been left to languish for the last eight years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EAlso, the issue of the ability to cross-examine was brought up by the Opposition spokesperson, and I think it shows where I hope the Opposition through the select committee process will begin to understand what this is trying to do differently. This is an alternative dispute resolution service. This is the kind of approach that we saw used to finally break the deadlock in a group action, or a class action, against Southern Response that had been going on for years. But when we came into Government and tried something different and employed alternative dispute resolution techniques, we were able to settle those claims so those people could get on with their lives, and that is the important thing that we have to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut, as I keep saying, it\u2019s not the only thing; we are looking at other measures. We\u2019re seeing a reformation of the way in which EQC deals with its claims. This is a Government that has worked with EQC, that saw\u2014it took away the resource that was required in terms of the on-the-ground claims managers in Canterbury. That was scaled down far too quickly by the last Government, and we have worked with the commission to ensure that we have more people on the ground there. So I am confident that once we put together all this suite of measures, we will finally be able to get to an end of these insurance issues that are bedevilling our city and our region. It is not enough to say these are complex, these are hard, and these are difficult. Yes they are, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re a Government that is putting in place measures to deal with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOne of the most complex issues that we have\u2014which the Opposition has questioned why this won\u2019t deal with it\u2014is the question of onsolds. This is an issue that needs to be dealt with by the court. It is an incredibly complex issue where we have to determine where legal liability lies. It does not mean we should not set up this tribunal, that we shouldn\u2019t be doing everything within our power to make sure that the issues of those Cantabrians\u2014like the lady in her 60s whose experience of being too embarrassed to invite people over to her house eight years on\u2014do not endure. We owe it to the people in our city and our region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u002288027c96b6844715b8d33be6b27bd5e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288027c96b6844715b8d33be6b27bd5e5\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Assistant Speaker. I rise to speak to the first reading of the Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill. This is a Government bill and National is supporting it, but with some reservations. I guess, like much of the legislation that\u2019s come our way in the last eight or nine months or so, it is in a poor state and an incomplete state. There has not been sufficient consultation with any of the key stakeholders, including the insurance companies or the Earthquake Commission (EQC). These are the people, really, who ought to have been involved at the formation of a piece of legislation of this kind, but because of the rush to get this done\u2014and I guess that\u2019s because there is so little other work that is standing ready to go by this Labour Government, that really was not prepared for Government and was really ill-prepared with a body of legislation that needed to go through. Perhaps that\u2019s why this was rushed through. So it will fall to the select committee to make some massive changes. It goes to the Governance and Administration Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EBefore I go through the parts of the bill that I think are better than others, I would like to say this: it is the eighth anniversary of a sequence of earthquake events that changed for ever the face of Christchurch, of Canterbury. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the pain and the suffering of the people of the region who have been through that\u2014[Coughs] Excuse me, Madam Assistant Speaker. Excuse me. I think that when we look\u2014[Coughs] I might need a moment; I\u2019ve just choked. Excuse me. [Hon Member offers glass of water] Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think that one of the things that happens when you need to ensure\u2014and no pun intended\u2014that there are 3,600 claims that need to be settled is that there is something more that is required, but whether it is this tribunal or not remains to be seen. One of the things that the Minister said was that an independent, fully funded mediation process would be allowable and would be part of this. I think, given the complexity of some of the cases that will be coming before this tribunal, that is an absolutely important element of all of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think that there are things that have occurred\u2014thank you, Kiri, for bringing over some lozenges. This is indeed a cross-party cooperative venture. It\u2019s not often that somebody who\u2019s been a broadcaster for 30 years gets even mildly affected by the throat, but I appreciate the gesture. Thank you, and excuse me for sucking a lozenge while I do this speech. OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s look at some of the issues that are raised with this piece of legislation. It has been touched on before, and that\u2019s the onsold homeowners, which, from what I understand with my association with the city and in a previous select committee\u2014on the Local Government and Environment Committee\u2014we looked at a lot of the work that has been done to complete the rebuild of Christchurch. The onsold homes are indeed a looming issue. That is an issue that will need to be addressed, and, perhaps if there had been more time, it could have been brought under the auspices of this particular tribunal. I wish it had been the case, but I think that is certainly one of the big issues that will need to be addressed at some point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI guess this is a tribunal that has been set up for the homeowners. They are, at the moment, in the dark because of the lack of consultation, but the Minister did make the point, and I\u2019m sure that people will take him up on the offer, that they make submissions to the select committee, that they tell their stories, that they make people who are on this tribunal, whatever level of skill and expertise that might have\u2014those people need to be aware of the broad range of difficulties that people have experienced in order to rule fairly and properly. The insurance companies and EQC will also be making submissions on this, and I think that there is some comfort to be had from that, and I think that is a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI worry, though, that some of the out clauses in this bill may mean that some of the decisions that the tribunal might make can then be appealed to the court, which runs the risk of doubling up the process and slowing things down yet again. When we see the impact summary that was prepared by the Ministry of Justice to inform this bill and the policies around it, they refer to the short period of time to scope and develop the bill. That\u2019s why they were unable to consult with those key partners, and therefore there is a lack of data about the nature and extent of the problems and the number of stakeholders affected. So they are advising that there is a lot more that is needed, and I agree with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThey\u2019ve listed, as well\u2014the justice officials\u2014some of the risks, and they point out that these claims may take just as long or longer than the current processes, and that must be concerning. I think that if a bill like this, when it\u2019s put through the House, and I\u2019m sure it will be\u2014there will be about a year\u2019s delay while the tribunal is set up. There will then be only a year\u2019s funding allocated for it, which I think is concerning. A tribunal of this kind needs to be set up with a longer-term view than just being around for one year. And only being funded for a year, I think, does send a message to people that this is a quick sweep-up, really\u2014that\u2019s its intention as a tribunal. I think it needs more than this, and I think the people of Canterbury deserve better than this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EBut the idea that the key objective of the initiative, in terms of the general risks, is not realized might mean that public confidence in the whole process is affected. I think that the system needed to resolve the final Canterbury earthquake disputes needs to be robust. It needs to do the job, and my concern is that it will not. We will hope it can be corrected and added to within the select committee process, but, again, we worry about the resourcing level and the volume of cases that might come before the tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe advisers have pointed out, as well, that this might be, as a process, misused by some litigants\u2014that they could, in fact, try to hold up and relitigate some of the cases that have gone through. So there are a whole lot of things that will need to be very carefully considered and resolved, and I think that\u2014you know, this is a tribunal that will take a little while. Others\u2014my colleague Stuart Smith has pointed out that we need to have people on that tribunal that have got the kind of skills, and Dr Megan Woods did refer to the need to have somebody at a retired High Court judge level to chair it, and, hopefully, a legal qualification to guide people through the quagmire and make the correct decisions as a tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think that they do only have the power to consider the simple cases that have not already come before the courts, and out of those 3,600, my understanding is that they are the more complicated cases. They are the ones that are going to be tricky to do, so I\u2019m not sure if this tribunal will be well-equipped. I think that when we look at the concerns over equal access, only policyholders and insured people will be allowed to apply to this tribunal. Again, it\u2019s narrowing it down, which might mean that the tribunal will have less work to do, but it also might mean that the very people that it seeks to help will not be eligible, and the complexity of their cases will not be able to be heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWho can bring claims? Not the insurance companies, which surprises me somewhat. I would have thought that equal access and natural justice would mean that insurance companies could also be involved in bringing cases to the tribunal, because that has been a problem and something that has held up the process of being able to resolve some of these claims. The unequal access thing will, I think, need to be kept in mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWhen we look at some of the other issues that have emerged through Christchurch, with regard to getting advocates who act on behalf of people, I think that we always need in these kinds of cases to have appropriately trained and skilled people, and having advocates there could be something of a murky area within a tribunal, particularly if it is not set up with the right level of legal rigour around it. So while I wouldn\u2019t want to cast any aspersions on individuals who have advocated in the past, I think there\u2019s a real need to be vigilant around those who might demand contingency fees or who might get involved for the wrong reasons. Again, when I look at the make-up of what is considered around the recommendations and within this bill, I am a little concerned that it will be a little underskilled and, therefore, potentially somewhat underwhelming. I certainly hope not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think that the people of Canterbury deserve something that will give them what they need and that will resolve the most complicated of cases. I remain a little sceptical that this is the tribunal that will deliver it, but I certainly hope that within the select committee process, this bill, which has been put together in a rush\u2014it will take more than a year to get established as a tribunal and will then only be funded for a short period of time\u2014will be allowed to have much more than that. It doesn\u2019t sound very promising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI commend the bill to the House, but with some reservations. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u00227d3e09c28d6146e2ba84d7968b26039e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d3e09c28d6146e2ba84d7968b26039e\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to offer New Zealand First\u2019s support to this Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill. I note that today is actually the eighth anniversary of the September 2010 quake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EMy, probably, overriding sentiment around this bill is I think it\u2019s probably three years too late. There are a lot of people who have been put under enormous stress through this process, through no fault of their own, and actually, probably, in many cases, through no fault of the system. This is an unprecedented scale of event for our nation, and mistakes were always going to be made. The process was always going to be difficult as we responded to this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo I have in my contributions on various earthquake-related bills steered away from the politics for the reasons I\u2019ve just given. I think the scale and the unprecedented nature\u2014certainly, in modern times\u2014of this event means that our response was always going to be less than perfect. But for the 2,500 to 3,000 people, or however many it is, whose cases are still unresolved, I think we really need to do what we can for them and elevate matters. I think this bill does exactly that for the 2 percent of claims that are unresolved, although I would add that as of 30 June, there have been 142,451 domestic insurance claims that have been made and payments have totalled $10.7 billion, as well as 26,275 commercial insurance claims totalling, to date, $10.3 billion. So that just shows you the scale of this particular event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI might say that I was in Christchurch last week\u2014as a hard-working list MP for New Zealand First based in the South Island\u2014and I must say that for the first time that I have been there in recent times, I left feeling encouraged. In that central city, which has looked like a bombsite\u2014most of us aren\u2019t there all the time and when we go back we\u2019re generally pretty shocked at the state of Christchurch\u2014it does seem like the modern, new buildings and the buildings that are under construction are now outnumbering the parking lots and the building sites. So I think we are seeing, finally, after these six or seven years since the end of the quakes, that there is a genuine revival. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EMost of the time when I go from Christchurch, I leave with a bit of a heavy heart, but this time I left feeling some hope and embracing the future, as opposed to maybe dwelling too much on the past. But, of course, for these 2,000 or 3,000 people\u2014I\u2019ve heard various quotes now of 2,500 claims, and I\u2019ve heard Maggie Barry, the previous speaker, saying it could be as many as 3,500\u2014their reality has not moved on. Just in recent times, we\u2019ve had a report on Stuff of Roy and Jeanette Walker. Roy is 94 and Jeanette is 81\u2014so he\u2019s done pretty well for himself there\u2014but after those events, they are still trying to work through this process, at their age, and the stress of the events has taken a significant toll on their health, to the point where doctors have, basically, ordered them into a rest home. Jeanette said, \u201CRoy\u2019s health has not improved and I had a breakdown arguing with the insurers who seem to be making it as difficult as possible. The doctor said it was beyond us now. I just got exhausted.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s for Roy and Jeanette, and for people like them, that we stand here today and bring this bill to the House. It is a sensible bill. It does recalibrate the power imbalance that we do have between insurers and claimants, and it does allow the homeowners to initiate this process, because that is important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI\u2019m actually involved in another bill before the House at the moment, the Farm Debt Mediation Bill, so I actually have been getting quite a bit of feedback through that angle on the process of mediation when businesses, in that case, are under stress. I have been given quite an insight, actually, into the pressures and the stresses and the power imbalances that do apply in these situations, where you have, in many cases, incredibly well-resourced, multinational companies going up against individuals who may be quite limited in their understanding or ability to respond in kind. There\u2019s this huge power imbalance, so this mediation process is a really, really important step. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EAs I say, I think we\u2019re well too late in getting to this point. There are people there like Roy and Jeanette, and all those other people that will be at their wits\u2019 end. We could not even imagine, I think, individually how hard it would be to be battling large corporations like that\u2014or the Government, in some cases, through the Earthquake Commission\u2014for that period of time. So these measures will be welcomed, I\u2019m sure, by those individuals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EOf course, the key to this is that the tribunal actually has some teeth. I think that its ability to set time frames and also to appoint independent experts where necessary\u2014and you would have to think that many of these cases are very complex. They will have gone through a number of phases already. So this tribunal does need to have some teeth. It does need to be able to rattle some cages and have some powers to make progress happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe have budgeted for it, with the $6.5 million operating budget and the $1.5 million that is in the set-up costs, and the foresight that went into that Budget round, as Minister Little said in his opening address, is something that was supported by the three parties on the Government benches. We recognised the importance of this and we have made provision for it. The fact that no onsold properties can be included in this\u2014I think that\u2019s thoroughly sensible. I think if you\u2019ve bought a property you will have gone in as buyer beware, and it was up to you to have sorted through or recognised what the obligations would have been in that sense. So I think this is to sort out the issues for the genuinely bogged-down people who have been put in this position through no fault of their own. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EOf course, the tribunal is enforceable, but its powers are in line with the District Court and are open to appeal. So I think that is important. It has been mentioned that that may bog down the process, but I think that\u2019s after the event. I think there will be far more disputes resolved before it gets to that point than would be the contrary. And I again refer to the work I\u2019m doing with the Farm Debt Mediation Bill, and the work that they have done in Australia has\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c452314d12e4036b3c819e9c5c92fec\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: No. That\u2019s not relevant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292d3af6ef487401f90fb95a53e9df357\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is part of the bill, because it\u2019s absolutely the same principle\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa75008c6e1243dbb4bef43663680b42\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Come back to the bill, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d23b9e0fc38a45d7bc68caf0cc9ce73a\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: The experience there in a mediation sense has been that it has taken a lot of that court time away. I do note there has been a little bit of criticism about the lack of consultation, but, of course, that\u2019s what a select committee process is for. It has been well signalled, as was pointed out, and there has been a Budget allocation made to it. So it\u2019s been perfectly transparent, what we\u2019re looking at doing. As I say, that has been supported by all parties on this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo without further ado, New Zealand First is thoroughly behind this eminently sensible measure. In conclusion, I would reiterate that I think it is too late. There are too many people that have been through too much unnecessarily. We should have put this relatively cost-effective\u2014or very cost-effective\u2014measure in place before we got to this point. I commend Minister Little and Minister Woods, of course, who has been so active in this space, for bringing this bill forward. And New Zealand First absolutely commends it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00227fc26743d36c4e11b3106d52fb3e64cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227fc26743d36c4e11b3106d52fb3e64cd\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E There are two essential questions that Parliament needs to focus on with the Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill. The first of those is: will this result in speedier settlements for those people that still have claims? And, secondly, will it result in more just settlements for those that have outstanding insurance claims? I want to focus on those two questions in my contribution on this first reading, but, before doing so, it is appropriate that we acknowledge today the eighth anniversary of the massive earthquake centred in Darfield that, very early in the morning, shook Canterbury back in 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI\u2019m a former Canterbury lad and have drifted a little north. I spent a good part of my university time studying earthquakes. What occurred that day will rate as one of the largest economic civil defence challenges that this country has faced, and I want to put on record the effort by people like Gerry Brownlee, like John Key, and Nicky Wagner in the intervening eight years to address those huge challenges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI heard the previous speaker, Mark Patterson, note that the Government was spending $1.5 million on this tribunal. I\u2019d just like, then, to take a moment to reflect on the $17 billion\u2014$17 billion\u2014that National committed to in Government to come to the aid of the people of Canterbury over that huge disaster that affected all of our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhen I reflect on\u2014if I take the new bus exchange, if I take the temporary stadium, and if I look at the new Justice and Emergency Services Precinct, and I was in Christchurch yesterday\u2014the way in which Christchurch has rebuilt itself over the last eight years, it is a tremendous story in which New Zealand, Canterbury, and the previous Government can take great pride.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to, firstly, focus on the question of whether this will result in speedier settlements. I do have to say to Government members that I read that the regulatory impact statement, from the Government\u2019s own officials, says this, and I quote: \u201CClaims may take just as long, or longer, to be resolved through the new tribunal [process] than [is] the status quo.\u201D That\u2019s what the Government\u2019s officials are saying about this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe reason I have a degree of cynicism around all the promise that\u2019s associated with this bill is\u2014can I just look back to a previous experience, for this Parliament. In 2002, a previous Labour Government, under Clayton Cosgrove, introduced the Weathertight Homes Tribunal with a near identical process as is set out here. When that weathertight homes process was introduced into this Parliament in 2002, the then Government\u2014a Labour Government as well\u2014promised that all of the claims would be settled in two years. Go back and check Hansard. I have. They said all the claims would be settled in two years. Do you know what portion of claims were settled within two years? Not all\u20143 percent were settled in two years. Even after four years, only 7 percent of claims, and the Weathertight Homes Tribunal actually took 14 years to get the job done. So when I hear Labour members introducing this bill and pretending it is a panacea for the difficult remaining insurance claims in Christchurch, I would love it if either the Ministers or one of the other Government members would explain why it will be different from the very disappointing experience with the previous Labour Government\u2019s attempts over the Weathertight Homes Tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to challenge members opposite in respect of the record of settlement of insurance claims in Christchurch. This was the largest number of insurance claims not just in New Zealand, but in 2010-11 there were more insurance claims generated in New Zealand than in all of the developed world. Isn\u2019t that extraordinary? In little New Zealand, we had over 260,000 insurance claims\u2014260,000 insurance claims. And so when I hear members opposite trying to deride and denigrate the record of the previous National Government, in which 98.5 percent\u201498.5 percent\u2014of those claims were settled, I think they are being a little naive and they are being a little unfair. Here\u2019s a simple challenge for Labour members: how many claims will be settled by this tribunal, and by when\u2014OK? I\u2019ve heard Megan Woods decry my colleague Gerry Brownlee for years on this issue. Put some pegs in the ground and give us some commitment\u2014OK? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re going to face a new election in September of 2020. We know from this bill that there are 3,800 claims still outstanding. I ask a member opposite: how many of those 3,800 claims will be resolved by the time we go to the polls in 2020? Is there a member opposite that can give an answer and a commitment? The silence is deafening, because while the rhetoric is strong, members opposite are not prepared to put their money where their mouth is and actually connect some performance with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe second point that seems to be lost on members of the Government is that when you change the contracts around insurance, it is a free good. It is not. Any New Zealander who has received an insurance bill, from Kait\u0101ia to Bluff, in the last 12 months knows the huge increase in costs facing families as a consequence of when they go to secure their insurance, whether it be through the EQC\u2014the Earthquake Commission\u2014or whether it be in terms of their private insurance. Here\u2019s the bit that members opposite forget: every time you impose an additional cost or you extend the entitlements with respect to insurance claims\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266cc382664824366a0b3488a6c383838\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just stop referring to the Speaker, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2a6f39b70b94911a581fa96934194e1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: When the Government extends those insurance entitlements, there is a real cost for other New Zealanders. Whether it be in the housing sector or the insurance market or any other sector, they are imposing costs on New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m very supportive of the statements made by Stuart Smith, my parliamentary colleague from next door in Kaik\u014Dura, who\u2019s had enormous experience with these issues and is raising the quite legitimate question: for all the rhetoric, is this tribunal going to make a positive difference? And I do need to question the urgency. Labour announced in its policy, when it became the Government, that this legislation would be introduced as quickly as possible. Well, it\u2019s been nearly 12 months since this Government was elected. The select committee process is going to take a further six months. Did the electors of Canterbury really believe that the first tribunal hearing would be in the latter part of 2019, and does that match up with the rhetoric and the promise that Labour members made in Christchurch when they said that this tribunal would be put in place? I think not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EMy colleague Stuart Smith has also raised some quite legitimate questions about the specifics of this bill, as to whether it will improve the timeliness and the justice of the outcomes from the insurance settlement process. The evidence that\u2019s in the officials\u2019 regulatory impact statement on this bill, and the experience previously of the Weathertight Homes Tribunal, raises real questions as to the rhetoric from Government Ministers and the reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo, again, I say to members opposite: if we are to believe that this bill is going to deliver all that they say, why will the Government not commit to specific targets? Why will they not commit? We know at the moment that about 1,000 claims are being settled per year. How many more are going to be settled more quickly by this tribunal? How do we know that the outcomes are going to be more just when the very process that has been set up has received quite substantive criticisms from those that are there? Let\u2019s go back, fundamentally, to the issue of the technical expertise that is required. In my view, they are some of the key issues that do need to be resolved to resolve these remaining settlements of insurance in Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022585bd9a612eb410299febbd57a1b1720\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022585bd9a612eb410299febbd57a1b1720\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. The previous speaker, Nick Smith, is being too negative. As Minister Little said, this tribunal is intended to be a circuit-breaker. There are over 2,500 claims that have yet to be resolved, and as the regulatory impact statement on the Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill, which the Green Party is please to support, notes, there are a number of frustrated and vulnerable claimants. So by setting up this tribunal, it\u2019s seeking to actually cut through some of the issues which have bedevilled the settlement of those claims. They are generally the more complex claims, but they also may not have been settled because of the vulnerability of the claimants. The processes that this bill enables, through the tribunal, provide a less threatening environment than a court system and one which, because of the recourse to mediation, can enable those claims to be settled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo I congratulate Minister Little and Minister Woods who have done all of the work in bringing this bill to the House. I think it is being innovative. We have a tradition in New Zealand in forums like the Environment Court where mediation is used to really good effect and similarly with the disputes tribunal. It is this ability to have the tribunal refer claims to mediation to enable the parties to get around the table, to either narrow the issues that are subject to debate to potentially go for a hearing later, or to actually get them resolved in that mediated forum that is one of the major benefits of the bill. The bill also ensures that people don\u2019t need a lawyer to take their claim to the tribunal. They must have an insurance claim. They must be a policyholder or an insured person. They must either have a dispute with their insurance company or, as an insured person, with the Earthquake Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe know that there is this tail of difficult to resolve claims, so this is the Government saying we need to get these nearly 3,000 claims actually dealt with, given that today is the eighth anniversary of the earthquake in Darfield along the Greendale fault. It has dragged on too long. It\u2019s caused significant distress to those families who haven\u2019t been able to get their homes repaired, who are still negotiating and putting all of that energy into the negotiations with the insurance companies, and who are facing enormous stress because they haven\u2019t been able to move on with their lives. So this Government cares about getting these issues resolved and that\u2019s why this bill is before the Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt will enable people to represent themselves if they feel that they would prefer to do that rather than having a lawyer. That doesn\u2019t deny access to justice. Proceedings can still go in front of the courts, but it enables things to be worked through in a less formal way through things like mediation. It aims to be speedy, despite the Hon Nick Smith having doubts about that, it aims to be cost-effective, and it aims to be flexible. It will be able to be flexible because of the case management approach that is being used here to recognise that each claim has its own circumstances and there needs to be flexibility rather than just a one-track process to deal with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EStuart Smith raised concerns about the lack of ability for cross-examination. Cross-examination is a very formal procedure. It does ensure that evidence is robust, but it normally takes place where proceedings are adversarial. This tribunal is inquisitorial, so there is the ability for those presiding over the tribunal to delve into the issues in each claim and to ask probing questions. That guarantees the probity of the process, but it ensures that we are not setting up an adversarial system the way you have in a court, and it\u2019s often by recourse to an inquisitorial system, to a system which is flexible, which focuses on case management, which enables the party to go to mediation that is often the more effective way to resolve some of these difficult claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s combining the best of a court system and a more flexible process, because the tribunal, like a court, can actually make orders, given that the presiding officers do have those inquisitorial powers and they are very independent. It also\u2014by the fact that it is not requiring fees or a claim to be filed\u2014means that it\u2019s accessible to everyone. There will be the power under regulations to set fees if necessary, but it enables access to justice for everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo there are a number of benefits here with this circuit-breaker process, with the flexibility it provides, with the ability to make orders, with the ability to refer the parties to mediation, with the ability to ensure that the appropriate experts are brought in\u2014they may be engineers or geotechnical experts\u2014and the assurance that they are brought together and have call conferencing so that they share their advice and help all the parties actually work through the claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo I think it\u2019s an opportunity for a different way of working, which is why the Government is introducing the tribunal to deal with this tail of claims which are causing significant stress to the householders concerned. I think it has the potential to be a circuit-breaker. I think the Hon Nick Smith should have a little more confidence that it will work. We are not setting performance targets, because that is not appropriate. It would cut across the flexibility, the case management approach, and the emphasis on mediation that the bill enables. It does provide an alternative to the court but without taking away parties\u2019 ability to access the court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo the parties taking a claim to the tribunal must want to seek resolution, there must be a dispute, and this tribunal is a way of resolving those really difficult claims. I think, as Mark Patterson noted, that because it\u2019s not dealing with the whole issue of onsold properties\u2014because if you\u2019ve got a claim and you\u2019ve bought a property from someone else, you can\u2019t take a case\u2014it does set some parameters around the tribunal\u2019s work and it is intended to actually deal with those nearly 3,000 cases where people are still subject, on the eighth anniversary of the first of the quakes, to the fact that they haven\u2019t got the earthquake damage to their single most important asset, their house, resolved. So I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022769058b5af244dd1b198a7abf1d1a597\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022769058b5af244dd1b198a7abf1d1a597\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Assistant Speaker. I too would like to note that today, 4 September, is the eighth anniversary of the Canterbury earthquakes and the first major earthquake of a 15,000 - earthquake sequence, and I remember that morning extremely well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EEveryone who lives in Canterbury and in Christchurch has been affected by these earthquakes. Everyone has been touched; everyone has felt the loss. But I do have to say that I think we can all be very proud of how Cantabrians have responded over this length of time, over the last eight years. There have been enormous challenges, of course, and one of the most major challenges has been insurance issues. When you think about it, there were over 600,000 individual claims with about 200,000 properties affected, and over the last eight years, of those 200,000 properties, all have been completed, with 3,600 left still on the Earthquake Commission\u2019s (EQC\u2019s) books. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EOf course, we always knew that there was going to be an enormous amount of work and an enormous amount of heartbreak, I suppose, that went through these insurance policies, and we always knew that some people would be the last. The last people are the ones that are often the most vulnerable, the ones who\u2019ve had the toughest times, and so it is really good that we are looking today at this Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill, because if we can use this to clean up those last 3,600 claims that are still with EQC, that is a very good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESo National will be supporting this bill. We\u2019ll be supporting it because we think it\u2019s important to try everything we possibly can to complete the insurance settlements in Christchurch, not because we have any faith in the bill. In fact, we have no faith in it, in terms of its shape, in terms of its substance, or in terms of its practicality. Like all Christchurch and Canterbury MPs, I\u2019ve been deeply involved with insurance claims over the last eight years, and we\u2019ve supported thousands of people to go through the EQC process. So we\u2019ve learnt a little bit about insurance, and we\u2019re very hopeful that we can finish those last claims, but what we have found over that length of time is that things like the Residential Advisory Service have provided support for some of these very complex and difficult claims very successfully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ENow, just looking at the principle of this bill. The principle of the Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill is \u201Cto provide speedy, flexible, and cost-effective services to help resolve insurance claims between policyholders and insurers \u2026 and insured persons and the Earthquake Commission\u201D. As I said, National supports this purpose, but we feel that this piece of legislation is flawed. It has been rushed, as has been noted today, and there\u2019s been very little consultation either with the industry or with the insured people. It\u2019s really supposed to be to help homeowners, so it was particularly important that homeowners were part of the process, and that hasn\u2019t been the case. It sort of feels that rational policy development with good information has been sacrificed for the rhetoric of the election promises, and that\u2019s a real worry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a real worry that even the regulatory impact statement identified as well, because what it said was the lack of consultation has compounded the lack of data\u2014both of which you could\u2019ve got if you\u2019d talked to the people involved\u2014which means that Cabinet faces significant unknowns. Now, that\u2019s particularly concerning, because, really, what we want right now is a little bit of certainty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESo, as I said, National supports the idea of \u201Cspeedy\u201D, we support the idea of \u201Cflexible\u201D, and we support the idea of a cost-effective process, but let\u2019s test whether this legislation actually delivers on that. First, let\u2019s look at \u201Cspeedy\u201D: well, again, the regulatory impact statement says it \u201Cmay take just as long, or longer, to be resolved [by] the new tribunal than under the status quo.\u201D On top of that, we\u2019ve heard that the tribunal won\u2019t be up and running till at least later next year. So, taking longer than the status quo, not starting till later than next year\u2014would we consider that speedy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESecondly, \u201Cflexible\u201D: the tribunal only has the power to decide simple cases\u2014simple cases that are not already in the courts. So it rules out a large number of EQC claims already in the system. The final 3,600 claims that are on the books are largely not only complex but very complex and technical, because that\u2019s why they\u2019re outstanding\u2014they\u2019re the ones they haven\u2019t been able to solve. So this tribunal needs to be flexible enough to deal with those issues, and it\u2019s obviously not. Equally so, as has been mentioned today, it doesn\u2019t deal with onsold properties, onsold claims, and that\u2019s an issue that\u2019s becoming increasingly pressing. This Government has done absolutely nothing to deal with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EFinally, decisions by the tribunal can be appealed back to the court. Now, that\u2019s neither speedy nor flexible, and, in fact, Mr Little\u2019s own department, the Ministry of Justice, preferred a mediation process to this tribunal, something along the lines of the Residential Advisory Service. Now, that\u2019s the service that National set up nearly six years ago, which has been running very successfully. It\u2019s morphed and it\u2019s tweaked to deal with the issues that\u2019ve come up. It\u2019s dealt with thousands of cases, very complex cases\u2014cases that have got very vulnerable people. I actually say they have been very flexible about how they\u2019ve dealt with those cases, how they\u2019ve dealt with EQC, and how they\u2019ve dealt with the insurers. So it seems to me that something like the Residential Advisory Service on steroids would actually deal very effectively with these last 3,600 claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EFinally, let\u2019s test the idea of cost-effectiveness. Because the bill has been so rushed, there\u2019s actually no information about any cost-benefit analysis at all. We don\u2019t know whether it\u2019s going to be cost-effective. We\u2019re only going to find out when we get a hefty bill, and right now there\u2019s only one year\u2019s worth of funding allocated in the Budget, so where will the rest of the money come from? So, cost-effective? I doubt it, and, again, because of the rush, we not only have been unable to understand the data but also can\u2019t understand how that data can be used to get effective outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESo, in summary: the new earthquake insurance tribunal, will it be speedy? I don\u2019t think so. Will it be flexible? No, it can\u2019t be. And will it be cost-effective? Well, we won\u2019t know until we get the bill. As I said in the beginning, National absolutely supports this bill because doing something is better than doing nothing, but I really believe that the strengthening of the Residential Advisory Service would\u2019ve been a much more speedy, much more flexible, and much more cost-effective approach. We\u2019ve seen it being successful\u2014thousands of claims have gone through that service\u2014and I believe it\u2019s far better to build on a success, build on something that\u2019s working and something that can give the flexibility to finally close off these very last insurance claims. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229c31d6ecad584678ba2aa3fd84f7ee19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c31d6ecad584678ba2aa3fd84f7ee19\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call\u2014five minutes. I call Jo Luxton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u0022af63b6afd4524daf98cfb5c40d700f4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af63b6afd4524daf98cfb5c40d700f4f\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I am really thrilled to be able to take a call on the Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill. I want to take the opportunity to acknowledge the Hon Andrew Little for bringing this bill to the House. He quite clearly understands and empathises with the issues that several thousand people in the Canterbury region have faced or are facing every day. I also want to acknowledge the people in Canterbury, and in particular Christchurch, on this, the eighth anniversary of the 4 September earthquake. This earthquake marked the beginning of a series of events that has changed people\u2019s lives for ever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EI can recall where I was at the time of the earthquake in September. When the earthquake hit, the house that I was living in at the time felt like it was nothing more than a cardboard box being thrown around. Thankfully or miraculously, we were never put into the position where we had to look to make an insurance claim because the house wasn\u2019t damaged in any way. However eight fast years may have flown for me\u2014which I feel like eight years has really flown by; I can\u2019t believe that it\u2019s been that long since that earthquake\u2014there are people in Canterbury who are still struggling after eight years, who are still trying to get their claims settled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003ENow, we can\u2019t control an earthquake and we can\u2019t control the immediate aftermath of an earthquake, but what this bill does is it gives some control back to the people of Canterbury, and many of those people have felt that they\u2019ve had no control and no hope over their lives for the last eight years. They are living their lives\u2014some of them, I believe\u2014in a truly, truly dark way. They are living\u2014it\u2019s like Groundhog Day: you wake up, every day it\u2019s the same. You\u2019re facing the same battle trying to settle your claim. It\u2019s not fair. It\u2019s not good enough, either. This bill will also bring back fairness and equity to the people who are fighting their claims. We know there are several thousand outstanding claims\u2014several thousand too many. I acknowledge that some of these claims are likely to be quite tricky to work through, but still, eight years is a really long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThis bill provides a pathway forward. People still, after seven and eight years, are living in caravans outside their houses because their houses are unsafe to live in and they are still fighting their insurance claims to get their houses fixed, repaired, or replaced in total, so that they can actually live a normal life again in their homes. As I said, it is a pathway forward. It\u2019s really important for the people of Canterbury that they have this pathway forward, which this bill enables, because they have been left weary, worn down, suffering serious mental health issues trying to navigate their way through this legislation in order to get their claims resolved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EWhat I think is really important about this bill is that it enables a shift from being worn down and weary to people being empowered and in control again. It gives policyholders a choice\u2014a choice to access the tribunal, which allows them the option to apply to the tribunal, rather than going through the insurers or the Earthquake Commission. It\u2019s not going to be regimental in its approach, and it will assess each individual claim, and be flexible and tailor their response and their approach to each individual claim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThis Government is delivering on its pre-election promises by establishing this tribunal for the people of Canterbury and, in particular, Christchurch. I really, absolutely, happily commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022de01c018e641470bad6a345a315a514f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de01c018e641470bad6a345a315a514f\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Assistant Speaker. I\u2019m rising in support of this very important bill for the people I represent, of Waimakariri, and for the people of greater Christchurch and Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EIt is a special day today. In the early hours of this morning eight years ago the people of Waimakariri were woken up with a violent jolt. Many in the town of Kaiapoi lost their houses that day. We lost just under 1,000 residential houses\u2014the town of Kaiapoi being one of the only places outside of Christchurch that has a residential red zone. That\u2019s why it\u2019s important that we call it the \u201CCanterbury Earthquakes\u201D\u2014which this bill does do\u2014not the \u201CChristchurch Earthquakes\u201D. Quite rightly, we focus on the 2011 earthquakes where we lost the lives of 185 people, but we shouldn\u2019t forget that the first earthquakes were 4 September 2010. That has scarred many of the community in the electorate I serve. As a constituent MP, I just want to take the time to acknowledge the former MPs of the Waimakariri electorate and list the Hon Kate Wilkinson and the Hon Clayton Cosgrove for the work that they undertook in the time of need for the people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EAs an electorate MP, unfortunately there are still cases coming through the front door of my office. These cases are at the tail end\u2014very legally challenging and technically complex. I think that even though today we\u2019ve heard support across the House for this bill in the first reading, as some of the previous speakers have outlined on this side of the House, we think there are some real deficiencies. Or, to take a strengths-based approach, there are real opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EBut first, I do want to acknowledge Parliament. I think the people of Canterbury genuinely feel that Parliament has stood behind them right from the start\u2014the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Act, the Greater Christchurch Regeneration Act, we\u2019ve done local bills on the Arts Centre of Christchurch, as well as Christchurch Cathedral. So this Parliament has worked well for the people of Canterbury. And I do hope, in the legislative process that we are about to undertake, Cantabrians voice their concerns, we hear them as submitters, and this bill will come back amended and better for that process. There are some areas that we need to focus on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EOne small detail that comes through my constituents many a time is about the land information memorandum (LIM) reports. I think we need to have a serious think about whether we standardise the reporting of the Earthquake Commission (EQC) and earthquake damage of properties on those LIM reports, because there are situations where people are buying property and potentially, maybe, not taking due diligence, but not having access to the resources to understand the full scope of damage to the property and buildings they\u2019re buying. Onsold properties are a huge issue. There\u2019s a constituent I\u2019m working with who bought a property in good faith, to find out that, actually, the EQC report was incorrect\u2014was inaccurate. EQC have acknowledged their report has failings, but, unfortunately, even though they can acknowledge that, they can only pay out the cap\u2014just $110,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EOf course, now this person is in limbo, because their insurer says \u201CWell, we didn\u2019t hold the policy of the house during the earthquake.\u201D, and the insurer of the house during the earthquake says \u201CWell, this person wasn\u2019t the policyholder.\u201D The problem is, if we exclude this group, they are actually one of the biggest groups of people left. I do hope we can look at that, because, actually, we need to think: what are the issues? I think it\u2019s time to open that up in the select committee process, hear from the submitters of Canterbury, and, ultimately, bring a bill back to the House that is fit for purpose to address some of these very technically and legally complex challenges for the benefit of some very vulnerable people in Canterbury. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022f20862b39bc349768f0911432580ab1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f20862b39bc349768f0911432580ab1a\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Malo e laumalie, Mr Assistant Speaker. Warm Tongan greetings from the member for Te Tai Tonga. I am pleased to speak in support of this Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill. It is eight years to the day since we had that initial quake on 4 September 2010, which started the series of seismic events which have totally transformed and affected the whole Canterbury region. As is customary, I note all those difficulties that families have gone through, but in particular I also think of the fatalities, as well. In particular, Mr Doocey was talking about Kaiapoi\u2014that\u2019s our home p\u0101 where I come from\u2014and the whanaunga that we lost in that. So \u0101piti hono t\u0101tai hono, r\u0101tou te hunga wairua ki a r\u0101tou, t\u0101tou te hunga ora ki a t\u0101tou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E[So let the connections be made, the spirits remain amongst themselves, and the living now turn to the living, greetings, greetings to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI am pleased to speak in support of this bill. I think what we\u2019ve heard this afternoon is a glass half-full, glass half-empty debate, but I\u2019m pleased that all of the parties of this House are in support of this bill at its first reading, because this is fulfilling a promise that we made. I want to commend Minister Little and Minister Woods for their work in bringing this bill to the House. What we\u2019re doing here is we really want to get to the completion of the tail of outstanding unresolved insurance claims, which are affecting so many families across the Canterbury region. I too deal with cases of wh\u0101nau that are still in suboptimal situations within their houses, whether it\u2019s draughts or uneven living conditions and the like. So this is a means for us as a Parliament to actually put a mechanism in place whereby we can deal with these cases and make sure that they can be resolved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EEight years is a long time. Eight years\u2014and then the subsequent events that happened later\u2014is a long time for families to be under the stress and the difficulties that they have faced in dealing with these insurance matters. This bill puts in place a user-friendly type process. We are putting in place a tribunal process. It\u2019s an inquisitive process. It\u2019s not adversarial. It provides options from case management conferences to fully funded mediation. So it is tailored to ensure that those policyholders, if they so choose, can elect to go down and use this tribunal process to ultimately get to a resolution of their insurance claim. So we are wholeheartedly in support of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EYes, there will be issues, I guess, as have been raised in the debate so far, and I\u2019m sure the Governance and Administration Committee will be carefully going through all of those issues. I\u2019m sure submitters will be raising those and many others, because we want to make sure that we get this as right as we can. Certainly, if there are little tweaks that can be made, as long as we\u2019re improving the ultimate outcome, which can ultimately lead to the resolution of these claims, then I think that\u2019s what we should be doing as parliamentarians. So I acknowledge the contributions that have been made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EUltimately, this is taking action, because the overhang has just been lasting too long. Families and policyholders want resolution. They have been worn out. I know many that have been just simply worn out by the whole process and have given up, and maybe they\u2019ve settled for something suboptimal. But this is a process for those remaining claims, so that people are able to, confidently, at their own election, access a range of different processes to ensure that they can get to the outcome that, hopefully, will bring finality to the matter. And then, of course\u2014it is just an option\u2014there are always the courts that we have, to deal with the more complex issues and the more, I guess, litigious issues that only courts can examine and can adjudicate upon. So this is just merely putting in a mechanism of a specialist tribunal and a range of different avenues which a policyholder can elect between. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe aim is, as has been mentioned, speed, flexibility, and, of course, being cost-effective, as well, because eight years of seeking legal advice and being at war with insurance companies, whether it\u2019s the Earthquake Commission or others, is not cheap. I\u2019m sure a lot of expense has been outlaid in that intervening period. So that\u2019s we want to achieve with this legislation. We want to eliminate that tail and deal with all these cases, and ultimately the outcome that we want is for those policyholders to reach finality with their claims. It may be to their satisfaction or it may not be, but at least this is a mechanism whereby it can come to a conclusion and they can move on with their lives. With that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u0022866a651d06e54a38b881ce0152e80974\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022866a651d06e54a38b881ce0152e80974\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Malo, malo e lelei. E Te Mana Whakaw\u0101, huri noa e Te Whare nei e mihi atu ki a koutou katoa. I too want to acknowledge all the previous speakers, and those that have actually, in their k\u014Drero, remembered either those that have gone because of the earthquakes or, particularly, those who have been affected as well. I say that because, on Sunday, which was Father\u2019s Day as we all know, my wh\u0101nau and I went to R\u0101paki. Early that morning when the earthquake hit the 15 houses that are there, 39-odd people, that is where we all actually came out of our houses and came together. I can remember in the dark as we were moving through the village, the k\u0101ika, just checking on how our wh\u0101nau were. Were there any injuries? There was a lot of fear, though, because walking down the road, our mauka, Te Poho o Tamatea P\u014Dkai Whenua\u2014we could hear the shingle or the rocks actually coming down the mountain. So we actually met over there just to remember some of those very fearful incidents that took place eight years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThen this morning I was at Ng\u0101i T\u016B\u0101huriri, Tuahiwi. It wasn\u2019t so much about remembering the eighth anniversary, but it was also there that we were talking about the effects of the earthquakes\u2014first of all, the first one, back in September, eight years ago, but also the main one as well, in February. But we were actually talking through with Regenerate Christchurch about the incredible programme that\u2019s going on there\u2014the project that they\u2019re looking at around the \u014Ct\u0101karo. So all of this is a direct reflection of what had happened eight years ago, and also moving through to the real bad one in February the following year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve heard, also, a lot of the discussions here. The previous speaker, my whanauka Rino Tirikatene, did also mention the fact about the glass being either half full or half empty. I think the important thing here, though, is that what these Christchurch earthquakes and a lot of the legislation that has come out of the Christchurch earthquakes\u2014I think one thing that we can all be proud of, right across the House, is the fact that there has been that legislation, right from the beginning and all the way through, to try to actually find better ways to ensure that those that were affected by death, loss of property, or mental health have actually been, as much as we can actually do in this House, in some ways addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ESo it is indeed my pleasure to talk about the Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill on the first reading. As our previous speakers on this side of the House have said, we do support this bill with some major reservations, and so are supporting it through to select committee because, as we all know, the select committee process is a process where we can all work together to make this bill a much better bill than what it is now. The reason for that is because there are some reservations, as has been well articulated by my colleagues on this side of the House. The major one is particularly around consultation\u2014particularly around consultation. I think the important thing, though, with us on this side, is let\u2019s just have a look and put some of the results or some of the themes in context that I don\u2019t think have actually been discussed or actually highlighted here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the last nine years that we were in Government, and particularly when we were addressing the huge issues post-earthquakes. When you look at that\u2014particularly with the legislation, but also around the Earthquake Commission (EQC) and insurance companies. I\u2019m based in the Port Hills in Christchurch. Obviously, the name suggests that that is actually the very hilly area between the Canterbury Plains, Waitaha Whakatekateka o Waitaha, and then across those hills you have the beautiful Te P\u0101taka o Rakaihaut\u016B, or Banks Peninsula. On those hills are really where a lot of the very hard and technical cases are that we\u2019ve been working through. So that\u2019s why, in some ways, we do support this bill, but let\u2019s get it moving to select committee so we can hear more submissions and more k\u014Drero on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI just want to reiterate for the record that, as a proud Cantabrian, yes\u2014and I watch with real concern of post-earthquake trauma and all of that. But also I think it\u2019s important that we\u2014the National Government\u2014did work very, very hard, and that is why, when you look at the stats today, that is a true reflection of that: 98.5 percent of these claims have actually been settled\u2014and that\u2019s a Ministry of Justice number. The remaining 1.5 percent are already under consideration through the Residential Advisory Service, EQC, and Southern Response. Of the remaining approximately 3,000 dwelling claims, 20 percent are already on a clear pathway to settlement. A further 36 are being considered for cash settlement right now by the claimants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m saying here is that one of the reasons, possibly, that there was not a lot of consultation is that even the Ministry of Justice officials are struggling with this bill, because they\u2019ve said \u201Cthis is a misconceived, poorly thought through, \u2018seat-of-the-pants\u2019 policy that runs roughshod over natural justice.\u201D And that\u2019s what it\u2019s about: natural justice as well. Going through the select committee process of this will actually bring this out. But I think the important thing with this bill, though, is that it\u2019s going to take possibly two or three years before anything\u2019s going to happen on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EBasically, one of the reasons why there\u2019s no consultation is because the officials would have probably said, \u201CIt\u2019s already happening.\u201D It\u2019s already happening. So why would you want to put another process in place when it\u2019s already happening? We know the answer to that: because this was an election promise. But, unfortunately, it\u2019s just put another layer on it\u2014another layer that will hold up a lot of the great work that is going on which will actually assist these people to have a final settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EEven though on this side of the House we believe strongly that this bill is not really needed, what we\u2019re going to do again\u2014as we have supported the people of Canterbury and Kaik\u014Dura\u2014and what we have done, is continue to support them by supporting this bill. We will actually work hard to ensure that this bill is going to be better than what it is here at the moment, and that is why we\u2019re supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EAs someone from Waitaha, from Canterbury, and as someone, actually, that has been in this Parliament during these terrible periods of r\u016B whenua, it is indeed my pleasure to be able to say that we support this bill to select committee. Kia ora. E mihi atu ki a koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022b55ef7b8f3c14bf0bdbfc86af2c4202d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b55ef7b8f3c14bf0bdbfc86af2c4202d\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I must say, it\u2019s a huge privilege to speak in this first reading of the Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal Bill. It\u2019s a privilege and a pleasure for three reasons, one of which has just been alluded to, and that is that the Labour Party, in its campaign, did say that this tribunal to speed up resolution of earthquake claims would be implemented and we are fulfilling yet another promise. A second reason is because this is exactly what is needed to get rid of these last claims; not a vast amount of claims when measured against the huge destruction that hit Christchurch and Canterbury, but far too many\u2014thousands of claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThirdly, and probably most importantly, is because this is an innovative piece of legislation, it\u2019s an innovative tribunal, and it\u2019s a new way of doing justice. This is not something that\u2019s been given a retread; this is a radical circuit-breaker that is re-examining how we can deliver civil justice to the people of New Zealand, and I\u2019m hopeful that this model will be used much more widely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe idea that we should have speedy, flexible, and cost-effective justice is nothing new, but for far too long our civil justice system has struggled to provide that to ordinary New Zealanders, and what has happened in Canterbury and Christchurch has, simply, thrown that into stark relief. Whilst we could ignore it when it was small-business people or the odd homeowner who had a fire in their house and a squabble with their insurers, when it\u2019s thousands upon thousands of people who have got a problem and the courts can\u2019t provide speedy, flexible, and cost-effective justice, we see there\u2019s a massive problem, and so this bill has identified the problem and it\u2019s laid out a template for us to progress that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis is a non-adversarial approach. It\u2019s one which is expressly inquisitorial, one that isn\u2019t led by lawyers but is led by experts. Some would think that I\u2019m the last person to try and shift things away from the lawyers, having had a career in the law to date, but I have been there. I have stood in court and watched money walk out the door between experts and lawyers and what have you, whilst homeowners, hard-working, decent New Zealanders, employees, and business people\u2014whatever you like\u2014haven\u2019t been able to afford to keep the case going, and they\u2019ve had to accept less than what they\u2019re legitimately entitled to simply because they have been worn down\u2014worn down by time, worn down by cost, and worn down, simply, by the emotional exhaustion of the conflict.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo this is an entirely different approach. It\u2019s one I entirely endorse. I think it\u2019s really important that we recognise now that this tribunal\u2014its success will rest heavily on the shoulders of the tribunal members who run it. And we must give them a mandate, a mandate not to be bound up by the rules of procedure, not to be browbeaten by the lawyers who will no doubt have something to say about how they should run this, but to actually be innovative in their approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve heard concerns raised, and this is the place to raise them\u2014concerns that the procedures will not be robust enough. But I want to say this. I want to say that justice\u2014natural justice\u2014is not an absolute concept. It is a balance. So, yes, we want a fair procedure. We want people to have a right to be heard. But we need to right-size justice to the size, complexity, and difficulty of the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI heard Mr Stuart Smith, and I must say I was a little disappointed in some of his comments. I heard him be alarmist about the fact that the tribunal can say that they need not hear from the parties, that they can decide something on the papers. Look, when you\u2019ve got reams of papers of experts\u2019 reports, in fact that can be a very good thing. Far too often when you hear something in court, all that happens is the person who\u2019s paid the most for the lawyer or the expert prevails, not because of merit but because of cunning, and that\u2019s not a justice system I want to be part of. I want to be able to give the courts the ability to look at things objectively on the papers before them, if that is appropriate. The rules of evidence are there for a reason, but let them be our servants and not our masters. We don\u2019t need necessarily to have a right of cross-examination in every instance. In many cases, evidence will be uncontentious. There\u2019s no need to let point-scoring go on in court when all it does is add cost and nothing else at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EReally what we\u2019ve got to do is give these tribunal members an absolute mandate to try something new, to say, \u201CDon\u2019t buy in to the conflict-oriented resolution that frequently typifies a usual proceeding.\u201D\u2014but to actually engage, to allow it to be expert led, to take on an independent expert where necessary. We need to avoid a battle of the experts where all lawyers do is line up expensive engineers or quantity surveyors\u2014or whatever it might be\u2014in a big long line and the one who\u2019s got the most wins. The fact of the matter is any situation which advantages people who can pay more and spend more time at it doesn\u2019t advantage homeowners, small-business people, and anyone else without a big pot of money and a huge amount of resources behind them. I know that everyone in this House wants to see justice resolved fairly and appropriately and not on the basis of some irrational consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s also not be alarmed by the fact that there might be tribunal members who aren\u2019t lawyers\u2014God forbid. Mr Smith, MP for Kaik\u014Dura, identified this as a concern. Well, don\u2019t. Don\u2019t be concerned. Sometimes the person with the most knowledge about a problem is an expert. If it\u2019s a problem about engineering solutions, let\u2019s ask an engineer. If it\u2019s a problem about costing, let\u2019s ask a quantity surveyor. You know what? Lawyers don\u2019t have a monopoly on knowledge in expert areas. I know, surprising\u2014all but one, all but one. Ha, ha! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EYou know, there are rights of appeal here as well. So the fact of the matter is that the quality check is there. If there\u2019s something that goes badly wrong, there\u2019s a check there. I heard Nicky Wagner, former member for Christchurch, saying that rights of appeal were a thing to be concerned about. I\u2019m very surprised at that. We absolutely need rights of appeal for two reasons: for error correction and also to make sure that the law\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAnd I want to mention just one other thing that I was very surprised about from the member from Kaik\u014Dura, and that was the suggestion that the express provision that claimants could claim for mental distress was a bad idea. I was horrified to hear that, because, in fact, if you look at what\u2019s gone on in Christchurch, there are instances where the anguish and distress suffered by people through these disputes is palpable. Now, I\u2019m not going to pretend that that\u2019s the case all the time\u2014that it\u2019s always the insurer\u2019s fault or the Earthquake Commission\u2019s fault. Sometimes problems are difficult. But in a concerning number of cases, there has been a woeful inattention to these claims and it has clearly caused distress on those people that should be compensated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EMr Smith referred to some arcane rule of law which has no foundation in principle that we should keep it to the law of torts and not contract. If one person\u2019s wrong causes another harm, the law should compensate it. That\u2019s a principle and it\u2019s a principle that this Act will apply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo look, this is innovative. A lot of the concerns that have been raised have said we\u2019re going too fast. I don\u2019t apologise for trying to fix things quickly. It has been eight years to the day and waiting is not a solution. We are absolutely going to get on with this as we have with the rest of government. The Insurance Council\u2014Tim Grafton, chief executive, is on the record saying, \u201CIf this speeds things up, I support it.\u201D I welcome that kind of attitude from Mr Grafton and I welcome the fact that his organisation will submit to the select committee. That organisation\u2014and I\u2019ve had a few disagreements with it\u2014is an important organisation. It brings valuable knowledge to the select committee process. I look forward to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis is a new approach and I don\u2019t apologise for that. This is exactly what\u2019s needed. It is the circuit-breaker for justice and for the earthquake issues that exist in Canterbury. I\u2019m very pleased to commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226527a3bde87f487a879f3aeae3669c28\u0022\u003ETariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc58d1537c86444d97ded8d679272a25\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000452\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 14 August.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd33910d50624e1bb90c03100ee5a01a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd33910d50624e1bb90c03100ee5a01a\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. Look, I enjoy rising to take calls on trade-related bills. I\u2019ve always had a passion and interest in trade, and the Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill here in its second reading is no exception to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EThis is a piece of work that was started under the former Government. Actually, it was first developed in 2009. It\u2019s gone through a reasonably prolonged process to ensure that it meets the needs of all the expected signatories of this particular bill. As this House will well be aware, the previous Government had a strong focus on trade, understanding the benefits it presents to us as New Zealanders when we get these sorts of trade agreements right, when we can match those with the needs of the countries we\u2019re looking to trade with. It provides a significant mutual benefit to all concerned parties. Certainly, that is the intent of the PACER-Plus bill as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EWe have 11 different signatories forming part of this particular agreement, and I\u2019d just like to touch in fact on not only the fact that we\u2019re doing this PACER-Plus agreement but also that there\u2019s been a lot of other work in some of those different free-trade agreements that I touched on. We\u2019ve seen the Trans-Pacific Partnership as a significant trade agreement progress under the last Government as well. Obviously, we had a bit of a name change and a few other tweaks that added a couple of extra pages into the end of it, which, effectively\u2014those changes to it were, I think, the two words at the start of the title, which then subsequently, allegedly, made it comprehensive and progressive. Regardless, though, we\u2019re encouraged to see that the now Government has understood some of the benefits that these trade agreements can provide and were able to come to the party and support that one through, noting their significant objections earlier in the debate on that particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EAlso, PACER-Plus\u2014another good piece of work. The Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership agreement\u2014that\u2019s still progressing at the moment. There are a number of trade elements that were a key focus for the previous Government, and I just encourage this Government to continue to maintain, to enhance, and to grow those trade opportunities for New Zealanders, because we are such a high-export - focused nation. We need these continued, ongoing, and access-improving opportunities to provide us the potential to grow and to develop, and, actually, that\u2019s exactly what we\u2019re trying to offer here for some of our Pacific partners, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo this is a trade agreement. As I mentioned, they all need to be mutually beneficial, and what we\u2019re looking at here is, of course, providing some benefits to New Zealand in terms of more secure and more stable access, more certainty, reduced tariffs, and reduced red tape, but, actually, it\u2019s focusing on providing significant opportunity into the Pacific community. We do take our leadership role in the Pacific seriously. We are a major player in that space, and, of course, it is important that we provide opportunities where we can to support the trade focus, the economic development, and the general prosperity of our Pacific partners, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EWe currently have exports of about $650 million - odd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022030eb1b5006e45d09d6b69bd1bcebb45\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e16e029963804a27945a882fbf7ce8aa\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s $650 million a year in terms of goods and services exported into the 11 countries involved in the PACER-Plus agreement, so this will be a great way to help reduce some of those tariffs. Actually, it\u2019s worth noting that a number of the signatories are not currently part of the World Trade Organization, which means there are no maximum tariff levels in terms of what they can potentially impose on goods coming across their borders, and that\u2019s something that we are facing as a challenge in some of those areas. So this will help to reduce that over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s actually quite a long time frame involved in this particular agreement to enable those Pacific countries to adapt and to evolve and capture the benefits without being unnecessarily hamstrung or impacted negatively by the potential revenue impact that may have from reduced tariffs. It was good to note that the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee focused on that as one particular area and were comfortable that the revenue impact had been addressed and was acceptable, and that there were time frames and options around extending the reduction in tariffs if there was to be a potentially detrimental impact from the result of bringing those in earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo, actually, this was progressed through select committee and supported by the majority without amendment, so it\u2019s a good piece of legislation. Obviously, the Green Party did oppose that. That\u2019s no surprise when it comes to trade. Hopefully, perhaps under Government they might be able to expand their understanding of the benefits of trade and what that can provide to all signatories. I reiterate that, actually, for any agreement to be successful, it has to provide benefit to all parties, or else why would they sign up for it? And that\u2019s exactly what we\u2019re looking at here as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EComing back to some of those benefits these Pacific partners will capture, it\u2019s about improving the economic development opportunities for them, creating jobs and wealth, raising the standard of living off the back of that, and actually providing them with a more predictable trading environment, as well. These things are really important for a small country looking to participate in a larger international context. To have that certainty is absolutely key, and this will provide that for them through the measures proposed under the Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ENow, unlike a number of other free-trade agreements, there are actually several different development components to this agreement as well\u2014requirements of New Zealand and Australia to add additional value into these particular areas. So, combined, we\u2019re injecting A$25 million to help modernise customs facilities and biosecurity services, to reduce those biosecurity risks, and to help meet international obligations in those Pacific settings so that they can trade at a more sustainable and internationally accepted level with their particular partners, not just those incorporated in this deal but, actually, in other areas that they may look to trade or interact with as well. So that A$25 million is a pretty significant injection to help promote that development and those systems as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EAlongside that, we are committing to spending 20 percent of our development assistance in the Pacific region for the first five years once this agreement comes into place. We\u2019re talking 20 percent of around $340 million, or it will be about $340 million\u2014that\u2019s the 20 percent. That\u2019s injecting a significant amount in terms of economic infrastructure and capacity-building, so this is, again, a significant benefit for these signatories.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EI encourage the Greens to understand that, actually, there are benefits alongside this. It\u2019s not just about providing additional income and more security for New Zealand\u2019s exporters and reducing their risks and tariffs; it\u2019s actually about providing significant opportunity through that wealth creation, through the certainty of trading parameters, through the improved systems that enable them to interact internationally, and, actually, through wealth creation via more jobs, more certainty around those jobs, and the raised standard of living that I talked about initially.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to come back to those 11 signatories. Now, this agreement comes into place six months after at least eight of those signatories sign up. So there are 11. They all, obviously, have to go back and gain agreement with their individual country settings in terms of what their expectations are, how they align that, the time frames, etc., but once we have eight signed up and on board\u2014and there\u2019s no reason why we shouldn\u2019t believe that will happen promptly\u2014then this will come into place. So we progress from there. That would be the start point of the five-year contribution when we are committing that additional 20 percent to economic development as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EAlongside that, this is providing additional benefits into those communities. It enhances their access to trade but also their access to sourcing finance or additional capital and to supplying markets that may be perhaps outside their reach at the moment or that perhaps they are unable to access because of the inability to provide confidence around the biosecurity risks or the particular processes that they manage with their export products. So this really helps to provide that additional capacity for them as well. Alongside that, that additional injection of capital from New Zealand and Australia can provide significant opportunity in developing aviation and maritime infrastructure, for example. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo, really, this is a collective agreement that is providing, of course, benefit for New Zealand but also for all of our Pacific partners that are looking to sign up as signatories. It comes back to\u2014as I said at the start\u2014our importance around taking a regional leadership role in the Pacific. We take that seriously on this side of the House, and so I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb4ef861d2c8481baad0a5e9d4ce4621\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb4ef861d2c8481baad0a5e9d4ce4621\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. It is with pleasure that I rise to take a call on the Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill. I say \u201Cwith pleasure\u201D because I\u2019m actually a new member of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, and this is the first trade-related bill that I\u2019ve had the honour to speak to in this House. Mr Simon O\u2019Connor has left, but what a fine select committee it is under his chairmanship, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill and, indeed, the time that I\u2019ve spent on the select committee has given me a much greater insight into how we can use trade policy to contribute to addressing some of the global and regional issues of concern. Indeed, our Trade for All Agenda that the Government recently announced\u2014and, indeed, we\u2019re launching public consultations on the Trade for All Agenda, and I\u2019m looking forward to the Auckland consultation that I\u2019ll get to attend next week. Indeed, that\u2019s what the agenda does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EEven though I\u2019m a relatively new member to this House, I\u2019ve had the privilege of going on some of our overseas trips that have been trade-focused as well. I\u2019ve seen the kudos that this Government has received because of the inclusivity of our trade negotiations internationally, where trade isn\u2019t just \u201Ctrade for the sake of\u201D but also looks at mitigating some of the impacts that it might have in terms of our environment, being inclusive of some of the more marginalised groups when it comes to trade, and, in fact, looking at some of the gender aspects of trade as well, which is what our Trade for All Agenda does\u2014mitigating the climate change impacts that our Pacific nations are undergoing, in fact, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why the Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill is so exciting. It\u2019s not just a trade negotiation but a trade negotiation that takes into account some of the aspirations and the needs of our Pacific partners as well, because we all know that a stable and prosperous Pacific is a secure Pacific, and New Zealand is part of the Pacific. The global trading environment is one that\u2019s becoming much more challenging for small countries, particularly like\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8834894d746412496182b9326c1c538\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8834894d746412496182b9326c1c538\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the member, but it has come time for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002212e24bba242046209503fffd07622f22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212e24bba242046209503fffd07622f22\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Colleagues, the House is resumed. We are debating the Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill. When we broke before dinner, Priyanca Radhakrishnan was speaking, and she has seven minutes 25 seconds remaining to speak should she so wish to do. Otherwise, is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ff8c2d2cbfa42e3a1915c760ad4f230\u0022\u003EAlastair Scott\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e40e86ee8974cec927b3f2b2de059c6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I call Alastair Scott.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022 data-id=\u0022e20d6045deb54cb7885190ba340ec044\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e20d6045deb54cb7885190ba340ec044\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Whew. Just about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf5931e9f38b405bac191140aa54b73a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I couldn\u2019t see. There were so many people standing up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f548ad4939464ed391f82eb91bce726c\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I wasn\u2019t clear and we just about missed the call, so here we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b0a75a67fa24f0aa32b7b4cb4a35561\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, we took their call. Well done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022418df85dee8d4cedbcde557f4a4007cb\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we took their call, excellent\u2014excellent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003ESo it is a great pleasure to speak on the Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill. It sounds like a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecdb9787dbfd48e4bc4c13218bf96369\u0022\u003EKanwaljit Singh Bakshi\u003C/span\u003E: Paper Plus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea6f3139a4b24985bf8812ddd8ef6365\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Paper Plus advert or a pacemaker advert\u2014I\u2019m not sure\u2014but it does relate to trade agreements. Trade agreements are good things. They enable parties to get together and to mutually agree beneficial mutual agreements on how they\u2019re going to structure and arrange things in the future so that their communities on both sides of the agreement\u2014and in multilateral cases, many sides of the agreement\u2014can benefit. It is also known as a win-win situation if we can promote and continue to develop and update these trade agreements that we have with counter-parties all round the world. Just because it might be completed doesn\u2019t mean it ever finishes. These trade agreements do evolve, do change. Situations change so that these\u2014and, as we know, we were the first country to sign a free-trade agreement with China, and, as we also know, that is up for renewal and will be improved so that both parties can see the changes that have occurred over the intervening years and make amendments. So, again, both parties can have mutually beneficial agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EWe are talking about PACER-Plus, which deals with the Pacific Agreement on Closer Economic Relations. There are 11 countries involved. It is, if you like, a cut-down version of what might be expected of, say, a Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement in that there is no reference to the ISDA\u2014is that the right term?\u2014International Swaps and Derivatives Association clauses. Is that right, Mr McClay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228af6ad1a060c4b25aa7b187e8d433b40\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284d688b37c5b4d699f120a4eef829a8d\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. Exactly. So it\u2019s a very simple, it\u2019s a starter for 10, if you like. These trade agreements, as I say, are mutually beneficial, so I can absolutely understand why, generally, both sides of the House are supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EBut it is disappointing to see that the Green Party have put a minority view into the report. If I can just quote from the Greens\u2019 minority view: \u201CWe remain concerned that, among other considerations, the PACER Plus agreement undermines efforts to promote Pacific regionalism\u201D. So, if it does undermine the ability to promote Pacific regionalism, please explain how that is the case, because no one\u2019s compelled or obliged to join these agreements; it\u2019s an opt-in situation. If a country does not see the benefit, does not see the overall arching benefit to their community, there is no obligation, and there is certainly no way that it would undermine Pacific regionalism. In fact, it will promote Pacific regionalism. There are 11 countries involved, mostly from the Pacific. So I\u2019d like to hear from the Greens to explain how this undermines\u2014as it says in the report\u2014efforts to promote Pacific regionalism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThen it goes on to say, \u201Creprioritises New Zealand\u2019s existing aid budget into problematic \u2018aid for trade\u2019 initiatives\u201D. Why would it be problematic to promote a free-trade agreement that is mutually beneficial so that all parties can benefit? Then, finally, it says \u201Cand burdens Pacific states with unfair export rules.\u201D\u2014burdens Pacific States with unfair export rules. So if it is unfair and it is burdensome on those parties, why would they sign into it? Why would they put their name to the paper if it was burdensome and unfair and it was, essentially, against their export\u2014or did not promote their export\u2014markets? So that\u2019s what I\u2019d like to hear from a Green speaker at some point. I see free-trade\u2014[Interruption] They won\u2019t speak on it? No, because they\u2019ve got nothing to say on it? No, no. So are we going to get a Green speaker to speak on it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af2d71d252994292acd385804ee8324c\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Just carry on with yours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e22fb0969764279ae79b5aaeb2ffaf8\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: No, doesn\u2019t sound like we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EFree trade is a really good thing, so I\u2019ll give you a little example. We\u2019ve got two islands and one is very good at fishing\u2014excellent fishermen, they\u2019re the best in the region. Then you\u2019ve got another island who are excellent at growing\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014lamb. The marginal costs for both those products in their respective countries are very low\u2014they\u2019re really good at it. But the fishing country, the guy that\u2019s really good at fishing\u2014he\u2019s hopeless at growing lamb. He just does not know how to graze sheep. In fact, do you know why? He has very little grass on the island, but he tries. He struggles. He needs to diversify his diet. He wants red meat on the side as well as fish. He\u2019s a little bit sick of fish, but he needs the red meat, so he continues to struggle away and produce very expensive sheep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EBut the problem that he has is that his Government won\u2019t allow the really efficient lamb grower next door to bring lamb into his country. And wouldn\u2019t it be great if it did, because the marginal cost of lamb over here is so cheap that if we can get lamb into the fisherman\u2019s country, that would free up all those guys struggling away trying to grow lamb, trying to produce red meat, and would let them focus on fishing, which they\u2019re really good at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThen the fishing guys, they\u2019ve got more fishing guys fishing. They don\u2019t need to bother with the lamb because they\u2019ve got a free-trade agreement with this crowd now, and they\u2019ll be able to import it cheaply. Do you know what? They\u2019re really good at growing fish or fishing for fish, and, hey presto, these guys over here, they\u2019re great at growing sheep, but are they fishermen? No, they are not. They wouldn\u2019t know how to bait a hook if their life depended on it, but they have been trying, and their Government has in the past supported them by putting barriers in place to protect the few fishermen\u2014inefficient fishermen\u2014that they have on their island. Then, hello, hello, the free-trade agreement is now in place and those guys that just did not enjoy getting on a boat\u2014they were prone to seasickness, didn\u2019t know how to fish\u2014they don\u2019t have to fish any more. They can import the cheap fish from the guys who love fishing and are very good at it. Hey presto, these guys who were struggling away growing lamb, they can now, more productively and efficiently, provide fish\u2014are these guys the fishermen or the lamb guys?\u2014to the guys across the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s the benefit of a free-trade agreement. You focus on the stuff that you\u2019re good at. You are able to be really productive and efficient at that thing or that production, and you share and you collaborate\u2014you share the knowledge and expertise and product\u2014with the other country, who will have to take away the barriers over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EI think this agreement\u2014coming back to the bill\u2014does take time to take these barriers down. It\u2019s quite, as we know in this country, extremely disruptive if we take barriers away very quickly all in one hit. We\u2019ve seen that here. This enables the barriers to be drawn out and reduced over something like 20 years and 25 years. Of course, as time progresses over that 20 years and 25 years, and the parties agree\u2014mutually agree\u2014those time frames can be shrunk, the agreement can be amended so that both parties, again, can find ways of agreeing to mutually benefit one another. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why I\u2019m very pleased to see pretty much the Parliament, except for the Greens, support this agreement. They see the benefits and mutual benefit of supporting free-trade agreements. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022d501f6c89d144d35be5cc5d6ac7e6cff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d501f6c89d144d35be5cc5d6ac7e6cff\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Malo e laumalie. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will indeed be rising to strongly support the Green Party\u2019s position. We will be vocally opposing the PACER-Plus agreement tonight in the House. We have long vocally opposed the PACER-Plus agreement. We believe it undermines the interests of the majority of the Island nations. I think it\u2019s worth noting that only 14 percent of the actual Pacific population are on board with this, because the other bigger Pacific nations\u2014we\u2019re looking at population here\u2014have said, \u201CThis deal isn\u2019t for us. What is this deal actually going to produce in terms of benefits for us?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo I might start by acknowledging the really fantastic analysis\u2014actually, Alastair Scott, the previous member, might want to have a listen\u2014of Dr Cleo Paskal, who goes back to the purpose of what this trade deal says it is trying to achieve and how it fails on every count. If the PACER-Plus deal is trying to create economic integration, it fails. Some of the countries are not signing up and some are pulling out. How can that be economic integration? If this deal is supposed to create stability, it fails. There are internal frictions and political problems being created by this deal and we cannot deny those\u2014not least with Tonga and Vanuatu. If this deal is supposed to ensure\u2014as it actually says in the bill that it is supposed to\u2014that all trade passes through Australia and New Zealand, then why would other nations and other trading partners even consider this? In actual fact, Washington DC and London have actually questioned this deal and asked what on earth the purpose of it is and what it is actually trying to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re on good ground in the Green Party in continuing to oppose this PACER-Plus deal. We have always said that it doesn\u2019t include the largest Pacific regions and nations\u2014as I\u2019ve just pointed out, for example, Papua New Guinea and Fiji\u2014and that it undermines initiatives towards greater Pacific regionalism, which, apparently, this trade deal was supposed to be about. It actually does the opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWe have said it provides for New Zealand to divert 20 percent of the aid budget to Aid for Trade purposes, coming from the existing aid budget. What is that about? That\u2019s a bit of a rort. We know that the burden of trade rules in the agreement is on the small and the poor Pacific countries, not on Australia, which maintains its high barriers\u2014so what is that about?\u2014to the export of fruit and vegetables from the Pacific. So, actually, what it says\u2014especially under the initiative of the previous Government\u2014it is trying to do is a bit of a farce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge that this Government has a new approach to the regions and the relationships. This Government has a new direction, and there is opportunity, therefore, to reassess how this deal could actually benefit the Pacific region in the way that it says it wants to. I do want to acknowledge there is that opportunity here and, particularly, that voices from New Zealand\u2019s and Australia\u2019s domestic strategic community raised the undermining and the trade-off, actually, between what has largely been driven by business interests, which can, in actual fact\u2014and an analysis says that it is\u2014undermine the strategic and economic interests of the Pacific economies themselves. So I don\u2019t understand\u2014and that\u2019s why we are proud to oppose the direction that this Pacific trade agreement is going in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EComing in from and led by the last National Government, it was absolutely a bad deal. I do acknowledge the opportunity that we have under this Government to reassess this, but the Green Party will be continuing to oppose it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EIf I can\u2014yep, there\u2019s time\u2014just pick up in more detail three of our concerns that I mentioned at the start of my contribution. So, tariffs: under this deal, New Zealand gains privileged access to Pacific markets, while they gain no new access to our markets. There has been some analysis of a little bit of bullying\u2014that has been the word that has been used\u2014from Australia and from New Zealand as a nation towards Pacific nations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ENow, if this is correct that we gain new access but they gain no new access to our markets, then I think that holds true. For example, nowhere in the agreement are Australia and New Zealand required to drop our protectionist policies against the export by those nations of their fruit and vegetables that are also grown here. So these small Island nations have to drop tariffs on most goods being imported from Australia and New Zealand, but not on the other side\u2014for example, Australia maintains high barriers to the export of kava and of fruit and vegetables from the Pacific.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo we have pointed out previously that New Zealand exporters will gain $20 million in reduced tariffs, but this is lost revenue for Pacific Governments that are already struggling to provide basic healthcare and education to their people. For example, Tonga spends $270 per person, annually, on healthcare, compared with New Zealand\u2019s spend of $4,016. So we may be better off, but they will be much worse off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESecondly\u2014yep, we\u2019ve got time\u2014it\u2019s about deregulation and promoting corporate rights, and this was clear from the get-go, particularly under the previous Government. As a result of this, experts have said that we\u2019ll likely see these small States face pressure for them to privatise their core State-owned enterprises, and that is what allows external players to come in and section off parts of the Pacific economies\u2014to actually fractionalise Pacific economies\u2014when this trade deal is supposed to be able to bring in and regionalise their economies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo if we really are after a trade deal that will help integrate Pacific economies and provide a regionalised base where we can give fair trade deals that look to the long-term sustainability of Pacific business, economies, and equalities\u2014social and economic\u2014then this is not the deal. This is why the Green Party is proud to continue opposing this bill. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccaa1aa3e3cc4add9972ca63ba283ae9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccaa1aa3e3cc4add9972ca63ba283ae9\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Malo e laumalie, Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank you. It seems particularly appropriate to commence this speech on the second reading of the PACER-Plus bill, given that we are in Tongan Language Week, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1d3d76544234079a265331a94f8bc5c\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014keep going in Tongan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e4ff9918cd34b288c32189c5ace6097\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I probably won\u2019t carry on in Tongan, Mr Doocey, but thank you for the encouragement. I wouldn\u2019t wish to upset my Tongan constituents by murdering their language. I would, however, like to wish talofa lava, kia orana\u2014and I would say \u201Cbula vinaka\u201D, but, of course, the Fijians are not part of this agreement\u2014and warm Pacific greetings to all who are parties to the agreement in what is a very important measure for all the parties who at this stage have committed to signing up to it. At some stage in the future, it is certainly my hope that many more from throughout the Pacific region will feel encouraged and welcome to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI am conscious of the fact that there is always a danger when readings have been interrupted of a degree of repetition. In fact, this second reading commenced several weeks ago and it was interrupted at that point. It then recommenced before the dinner adjournment, when I was not able to be in the House, so I apologise in advance if anything that I say repeats some of the information that is critical to the consideration at the second reading, but I do think it\u2019s important to get some facts on the table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI have to say that there is a certain irony in having so much enthusiasm from the Labour Party and the New Zealand First Party for a free-trade agreement when those of us who are on this side of the House, who were on the other side of the House just a year ago, remember that this agreement was at that stage being concluded\u2014or, rather, the negotiations were coming to a conclusion\u2014in June of last year, under the fine leadership of the Hon Todd McClay, and we had just emerged from a period of sustained, belligerent opposition to the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement from those parties opposite. At that stage, it seemed that they hadn\u2019t a good word to say about free trade. Now, suddenly, they\u2019re on that side of the House and they\u2019ve become converts, and I do welcome their conversion, but, as I say, there\u2019s a little bit of irony in it. I do think it\u2019s therefore important to give credit where credit is due and say, \u201CMalie Fakafofonga.\u201D I apologise if I\u2019ve got that wrong, but I understand that means \u201Cwell done\u201D, \u201Cbravo\u201D, \u201Ca brilliant effort\u201D, and I want to say that I won\u2019t say it again to the Hon Todd McClay, but he and his partners throughout the Pacific did a very good job. It is, naturally, something that we would all hope will be of mutual benefit to all the parties who are concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAnd I have to say to the Green member who\u2019s just resumed her seat, it\u2019s always fascinating to hear Green arguments on topics of this type because, listening to Ms Davidson, you would assume that there was not a single benefit to any of the Pacific partners who have at this stage committed themselves to PACER-Plus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aec26d00d0c84a26818d8759d884a626\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: What have they been vaping?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c36fddc8052848a1bfdda98311cdbcb5\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I shall leave that question to the realms of being a rhetorical question, Mr Brown, but still happy to have written you into the record for asking it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIn all seriousness, I say to the Green Party: do they seriously believe that all of the nations that have gone through a very detailed consideration of this topic, who have had the benefit of expert advice, who have had the benefit of trade commissioners and others going to their countries, talking them through in detail what the opportunities would be, showing them that it\u2019s not only trade but also services that can make an enormous transformational difference in many of their countries\u2014are we seriously meant to believe that at the end of all of that, they would say, \u201CWell, there\u2019s no benefit to us in that. That\u2019s absolutely predatory. We will be seriously disadvantaged, but hey, we\u2019ll sign up anyway.\u201D? Because that is the logical conclusion of the argument that is being put forward: \u201CThere\u2019s no benefit to us in any of this, but we\u2019ll sign up anyway.\u201D Well, I want to suggest that that is a fairly farcical\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6e2abc10aef4e2f9f857e7c05394f0f\u0022\u003EAlastair Scott\u003C/span\u003E: Patronising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293c7ed33350a4b55a40e7b96afdf0941\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I wouldn\u2019t go so far as to say \u201Cpatronising\u201D, Mr Scott, but I thank you for your assistance. I would, nevertheless, describe it as a farcical conclusion. So I just want to refer to some of the documentation and, in particular, draw the Greens\u2019 attention\u2014now this is presumably not new to them, but there is a very detailed national interest analysis that has been produced on the Pacific Agreement on Closer Economic Relations, the PACER-Plus agreement. Now, admittedly, this is for the New Zealand tradespeople, but, nevertheless, we read it and we look into it to see\u2014well, what does it tell us of the national interest for each of the member nations who are a part of it? There is no question that there is a very significant economic cooperation package being made available as part of the PACER-Plus agreement, and this is being made available to help Pacific countries to meet their obligations and realise the benefits of the agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENow, New Zealand and Australia have offered to provide more than $55 million in direct and indirect trade-related support for the Pacific through PACER-Plus and associated initiatives. So that\u2019s one commitment. \u201CPACER Plus will leverage New Zealand\u2019s Overseas Development Assistance (ODA) investments to increase regional trade, investment, and labour flows.\u201D, and New Zealand has committed to investing at least 20 percent of its total official development assistance in Aid for Trade in the Pacific for the first five years after the agreement comes into force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENow, previous speakers have drawn attention to the Government\u2019s commitment to the Pacific reset. I would make the point that much of that work was already under way under the previous Government, but I acknowledge the fact that they have taken it a stage further. They\u2019ve put some more money into it, and I think it\u2019s fair to acknowledge that, and I think there\u2019s pretty broad agreement in this House on the fact that we have a strong, not just a sense of obligation, but almost a family tie to our Pacific neighbours, and we have a very strong desire to be of assistance to them. While New Zealand tends to think of ourselves as a small country, when it comes to Pacific matters, suddenly we become a very large country, and I\u2019m pleased that, as a country, we are stepping up to acknowledge that and to do our best to help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo you read in the national interest analysis that \u201CPACER-Plus seeks to facilitate trade in services between New Zealand and Pacific Island Forum countries by building on current commitments under the General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS) and the Pacific Island Countries Trade Agreement (PICTA)\u201D\u2014which is a Trade in Services protocol\u2014and \u201CIt covers all service sectors and modes of supply, with exceptions which preserve services supplied in the exercise of government authority, government procurement, subsidies, and air transport services.\u201D Now, that all sounds fairly wordy, but when you look down the list of how some different countries can be affected by this, these include the following sectors: taxation services to Tonga; veterinary services in Samoa; services provided by midwives, nurses, physiotherapists, and paramedical personnel in Tonga and Vanuatu; computer and related services in the Solomon Islands; research and development services in Tonga; real estate services in Tonga; rental/leasing services without operators in Samoa and Tonga; advertising services in Samoa\u2014and I\u2019m only not quite halfway through a list in this particular assessment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo the point that I\u2019m making is that this is comprehensive in its application. It is designed to ensure that there is very real benefit for all the parties that take part. I don\u2019t see why on earth the Greens would think that there is absolutely no benefit in that, and, of course, they haven\u2019t been compelled to sign up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThere are a number of Pacific nations that at this stage are staying outside PACER-Plus and looking to see whether there will come a point when it might be more attractive to them. I hope that in time it will be and we\u2019ll\u2014certainly in New Zealand, I\u2019m sure\u2014be keen to ensure that, and I wish the current trade Minister, who\u2019s in the House, well in his efforts to do that. I\u2019m sure he\u2019ll represent us very well in reaching out to those Pacific nations because, as I say, we take our obligations to our neighbours seriously, and, as I say, the very important point to note is that this is an agreement that has real benefits to all the parties involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EInevitably, when there is a trade agreement, there are things that have to be compromised. There is a bit of give and take. That\u2019s in the nature of negotiation, but to suggest, as the Greens are doing, that this is a horrific agreement where there is no benefit whatsoever to the Pacific nations is, to my mind, absolutely farcical and completely refuted by reference to the facts. I do suggest to any member of the public who may be interested to have a look at the national interest analysis. By all means, agree that you\u2019re reading our particular analysis through New Zealand eyes, but also reach out and see how this will have attractive benefits for many other nations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo I am absolutely delighted to welcome this particular bill that will see PACER-Plus advance to the next stage in the process in the House tonight. I\u2019m sure that from this point on, the Government will be keen to ensure that we complete the remaining stages fairly soon. I will be pleased to take another call at that point. I commend the Government for the work that it\u2019s doing, and the National Opposition is very happy to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002291458c78f905449d82a52af83e5efd12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291458c78f905449d82a52af83e5efd12\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This next call is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u002263561a7e1f2748ef995bb7058eb6d006\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263561a7e1f2748ef995bb7058eb6d006\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa): \u003C/span\u003EMalo e laumalie \u2018Eiki Sea. It\u2019s my pleasure to take a call on this, the second reading of the Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill. As a member of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, I want to thank my colleague Tim Macindoe, because I won\u2019t be now having to outline what this bill means in terms of benefits for our Pacific brothers and sisters, can I call them. But what I do want to say is that what this bill will do specifically is ensure the application of preferential tariff rates for parties to the PACER-Plus agreement and amend the rules on goods re-entered after repair or alteration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo, actually, it hugely benefits our Pacific wh\u0101nau, this piece of legislation. I\u2019m not quite sure about others\u2019 interpretation of the bill, other than to say that we know, as members of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee and having to hear submissions about the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership itself before then considering the bill, which is before the select committee, that people are just anti-trade, and those that are anti-trade don\u2019t believe that it benefits anyone other than the corporates. But what this piece of legislation does\u2014this specific one\u2014is actually provide better access. We\u2019d reduce those tariffs, as I\u2019ve said, so that commodities from the Pacific can enter our country and they are advantaged in doing so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWe only had one submission before the select committee. It was a really interesting submission by Rural Women and the New Zealand Federation of Business and Professional Women of New Zealand\u2014so, Angela McLeod and Hellen Swales. They came to present on behalf of their sisters in the Pacific, and they wanted to make sure that the voices of women were included in these agreements because, from their perspective, women actually have been explicitly excluded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo what I want to share with the House is that part of this piece of legislation\u2014and I do want to just focus on what the objectives were when this particular agreement was discussed at the Pacific Islands Forum at their 40th meeting in August 2009. The \u201Cwhy\u201D was all about jobs. The \u201Cwhy\u201D was about increasing standards of living, it was about regional, sustainable economic development, it was about reducing poverty and contributing to the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), and that really is what I want to focus on, because what SDGs are we talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re actually talking about SDG 9, which is about improving industry, innovation, and infrastructure. It is about SDG 8: creating decent work and economic growth. It is about SDG 7: providing affordable, clean energy. It\u2019s also about SDG 5, which is all about gender equality. Herein lies the commitment that we managed to put in the select committee report. We were told\u2014and I know Minister David Parker, who is sitting in a chair beside me now, is committed to ensuring that women are consulted on in terms of the Trade for All Agenda and the Pacific reset.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo I just want to take the opportunity to thank Angela McLeod and Hellen Swales for bothering to make a submission to our select committee, for coming, and for advocating for our sisters in the Pacific. I\u2019m reassured because of some of the statements our Minister has said, and because we have committed to the Trade for All Agenda. I saw a press release on 6 August 2018\u2014this is in the New Zealand context\u2014and I quote, \u201CWe want small and medium sized businesses, women and Maori\u2014who haven\u2019t always benefited as much as big business from trade deals\u2014to succeed on the global stage.\u201D So there it is in writing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThis Government is going to engage with groups such as indigenous peoples and women to make sure that these agreements actually fulfil the potential that we all hope them to have. It isn\u2019t just about big business; it actually is about supporting small and medium sized business owners\u2014you know, the mums and dads who are harvesting in our Pacific Islands\u2014and providing clearer pathways, easier pathways, for their goods to come to New Zealand so we can purchase them. We can help to grow communities in our Pacific Islands whose main source of income isn\u2019t from their family who live in New Zealand, who send that money back to the Islands; it\u2019s actually providing them with the tools and the resources to be able to look after themselves. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u00228456d70490f64bf7a12e4aa3a2d07d0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228456d70490f64bf7a12e4aa3a2d07d0a\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Malo e lelei, Madam Deputy Speaker, and to my sister across the House, Anahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki. This is acknowledgment to the Tongan reo this week, as we will also, next week, pay acknowledgment to Te Reo M\u0101ori. So I acknowledge you, e tuahine, and in acknowledging you I also acknowledge the people of Tonga, who may be viewing this debate this evening, and also our brothers and sisters throughout the Pacific realm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESpeaking specifically to this proposed legislation, having presided as a substitute sit-in member on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, I\u2019ve been privy to only part of these discussions, but, in saying so, I will continue the pace of the debate this evening as we speak about the Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill. For those who are listening out there in the public, the PACER-Plus\u2014as previous speakers this evening have addressed the House upon\u2014is a landmark trade and development agreement. It will lower barriers and provide greater opportunity for New Zealand businesses whilst raising living standards, creating jobs and opportunities, and increasing exports in Pacific Island countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just hearken to some k\u014Drero that was shared by the co-leader of the Green Party this evening, and with the Greens taking a minority view on this, it\u2019s somewhat not surprising that, again, they\u2019re jumping the waka when it comes to trade. It\u2019s not surprising that, again, it\u2019s calling into question a level of integrity around this coalition Government, where one of the parties to that is challenging what the views are of its other party participants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EHowever, I will come back to the bill. It\u2019s known that this Pacific Agreement on Closer Economic Relations Plus\u2014the PACER-Plus\u2014is a free-trade agreement, and, coincidentally, it was signed in June 2017 in Tonga. Under the national interest analysis that has been provided around this agreement, PACER-Plus is a plurilateral, treaty-level agreement that has been negotiated between 14 countries. Eleven of those have signed to this. Those 11 countries are Australia, the Cook Islands, Kiribati, Nauru\u2014which is very topical in our news at the moment\u2014New Zealand, Niue, Samoa, the Solomon Islands, Tuvalu, Vanuatu, and, none the less, Tonga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EJust in summation, the background has been canvassed. Statistics: New Zealand is home to almost 296,000 Pacific people. It has a growing youth population of our Pasifika peoples here in Aotearoa. New Zealand exports around $1 billion of goods to the Pacific regions a year. Around 30 percent of Pacific nations\u2019 exports go to Australia and New Zealand, and New Zealand and Australia, notably, are the largest source of tourists for the Pacific. New Zealand has also committed to invest at least 20 percent of its total Official Development Assistance into Aid for Trade in the Pacific region. It\u2019s important that in relation to that, for the first five years after PACER-Plus has been entered into, there is an estimated $340 million invested into economic infrastructure and capacity-building within those Pacific nations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThe intended benefits of PACER-Plus are, in summary, a more predictable trading environment, more consistent and transparent rules throughout the region on sanitary and phytosanitary measures\u2014that\u2019s around animal and human imports and exports\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efc460151439468a9c812ed5a4a92d82\u0022\u003EFletcher Tabuteau\u003C/span\u003E: Are we exporting humans\u2014what? Didn\u2019t read that bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297f8999935394ddd9a666fd0cf542783\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014technical barriers to trade, and customs procedures. It also\u2014well, that bit, if you\u2019re interested, is at page 58, I refer to the member across the House. It\u2019s at page 58 of the agreement, so you may be enlightened by learning something this evening, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EAlso, just by way of summary and in concluding around that, the benefits are that PACER-Plus will enter into force 60 days after eight of those negotiating parties, that I outlined, of the 11 have notified Tonga that they\u2019ve completed their domestic requirements. In due course, this will come into implementation. To our trading partners in the Pacific Rim, this is something to be celebrated for all. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u00225946bf27c5214500813cb4ce039d12b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225946bf27c5214500813cb4ce039d12b5\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Malo e lelei, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248fa3eba398444c98907624a01c80249\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s on page 58? What\u2019s on page 58?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dc867e871974a9d9b83c8e56ce51f31\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I\u2019d like to start by acknowledging\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba97394c49aa4315989cff1586129882\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Page 58.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c2160c792e84326a607be7568884443\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the Hon Todd McClay, and ask that the incessant buzz from the opposite side of the House stop. I was with the Hon Todd McClay when this was signed by those in attendance at the time, and I acknowledge his efforts. I have no doubt that the other side of the House has brought up New Zealand First\u2019s position at the time. We did write a minority view on PACER-Plus, and I\u2019d just very briefly like to touch on the thinking of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the Minister for Trade and Export Growth for his fantastic effort, but our position at the time was around, essentially, the timing of where PACER-Plus had got to in the conversations with our Pacific neighbours. So when you look at the current state of the signatories and at the time it was signed, we still have the critical issue of not having signed in, or brought into the conversation to any great degree, some of the biggest players in the Pacific.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EFiji is still not a signatory, Papua New Guinea is still not a signatory, and they represent, in terms of Pacific trade, population, economic activity, and actual export/import figures, a large and significant proportion of trade in the Pacific. At the time, New Zealand First said \u201CWell, what is the rush? Why are we trying to push this now?\u201D, and we wrote our minority view. Now, some have made the point in the House of why have we changed our position. Well, I\u2019ll tell you why. As many have acknowledged, this isn\u2019t a traditional trade agreement. This is an agreement where New Zealand has sought to empower that blue continent and to say to our cousins, our neighbours, \u201CActually, what we\u2019re trying to achieve is to grow your economies through trade, to make a sustainable economy through good export\u2014and, yes, to help you with imported goods where we think New Zealand has those efficiencies.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s changed, what is fundamentally different\u2014and it\u2019s very important to note it in the House tonight\u2014is that the Rt Hon Winston Peters, as the Minister of Foreign Affairs with this Government, set out to reinvigorate, to make significant again, our relationship with the Pacific to say that together, and only together, can we move this blue continent forward. So what we have created, what this Government has done, through the Rt Hon Winston Peters, is the Pacific reset. I acknowledge the contribution\u2014I think it was the contribution from the Hon Tim Macindoe. He acknowledged that this Government has absolutely raised the stakes in terms of monetary contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EActually, I now am very proud to talk to the House about my efforts in the Pacific, because I personally see PACER-Plus now in connection with the Pacific reset, and, actually, I\u2019d like to acknowledge our trade Minister in regards to our focus on trade and our Trade for All Agenda, because that has resonated in the Pacific. They understand what it is we\u2019re trying to achieve. So if you put all of that together and in this House talk about the potential synergies we\u2019re trying to create with the Pacific reset\u2014and I would argue tonight that New Zealand First is absolutely focused on using PACER-Plus as an enabling tool to engage with our Pacific neighbours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe previous contribution from Harete Hipango spoke about phytosanitary measures\u2014biosecurity. Well, actually, what we\u2019re trying to do here\u2014and, once again, I say it for the House\u2019s benefit: this isn\u2019t a traditional trade deal. This is an attempt to empower our Pacific neighbours, our cousins, and to build capacity for sustainable exports and sustainable economic growth so that long term, this blue continent grows together, and New Zealand is absolutely a part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo already, on the ground, for those Pacific Island countries who have signed up to PACER-Plus, we have deployed resource in terms of empowering and enabling the issues that they\u2019ve had with the compliance issues in terms of our quite high standards for accepting imports in New Zealand. We\u2019re adamant that we must maintain those standards, but we\u2019re absolutely adamant that we cannot block our neighbours from exporting into New Zealand, because that\u2019s potentially a great income generator for them. So the question is: what do we do? Well, we don\u2019t tell them, \u201CYou haven\u2019t met the requirements.\u201D We go to them and say, \u201CHow can we help?\u201D, and that is what we\u2019ve been doing. Those are the conversations I have had the privilege to have on behalf of this Government in the Pacific about empowering the Pacific itself to take advantage of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EWe see today\u2014and we saw at the time\u2014that there are nations there who have said \u201CYes, this is a way forward for us.\u201D, but if you take the Marshall Islands and Palau, for example, they had a regime change, and in my conversations with them, they hadn\u2019t been briefed by their own bureaucracy, their own administration, on what PACER-Plus was and what potential it represented for them. So New Zealand needs to be part of the solution there because I believe that if they knew what it was that this agreement had to offer for them in conjunction with the Pacific reset, in conjunction with New Zealand\u2019s philosophy on Trade for All, I think that is a conversation that they want to have. Actually, I think that New Caledonia and French Polynesia have been mentioned. They are excited about the possibility of PACER-Plus; we just need to have those conversations with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo look, it\u2019s something that\u2019s important. I\u2019m proud to be part of the efforts in the Pacific in this space. I do believe that PACER-Plus is a tool that we can use for empowerment for our Pacific neighbours and for New Zealand. Let\u2019s not kid ourselves, this Government thinks it will be good for New Zealand exporters as well. So on that note, Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you for the opportunity. It is a pleasure to rise on behalf New Zealand First to support this enabling legislation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9065d959c46413ab1543e05d8cf7bda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9065d959c46413ab1543e05d8cf7bda\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I\u2019m not going to attempt Tongan, out of respect for the language, but happy Tongan Language Week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI want to talk a little bit about the change in attitude by New Zealand First. I think that\u2019s great that they\u2019ve had an epiphany, although I don\u2019t quite follow the logic, given that the Pacific reset has been criticised by officials as being poorly targeted. It just seems strange that this sudden epiphany and embracing of free trade only comes with the Treasury benches from that side. We\u2019re quite consistent in our view and unapologetic for that, and I think that\u2019s what comes with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da4ec65b34964f74b7d89fcde2a2a949\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, Matt. Tell him he\u2019s wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f112cdaab11d41a59a2690734c8cc1ef\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: You know he\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb5f60658e7449f906413b55871dd7f\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, absolutely, and it\u2019s disappointing. Perhaps political maturity might come upon that party in time and they\u2019ll understand the benefit of trade\u2014the true benefit of trade\u2014right across the Pacific and, particularly, for our close neighbours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EActually, I want to also touch on the Green Party\u2019s attitude on this. The previous speaker from the Green Party, Marama Davidson, was defending their position in opposing this, and I did find it quite condescending, really. Some of the language around it I just find quite strange. In their minority view, they said, \u201CWe remain concerned that, among other considerations, the PACER Plus agreement undermines efforts to promote Pacific regionalism, reprioritises New Zealand\u2019s existing aid budget into problematic \u2018aid for trade\u2019 initiatives, and burdens Pacific states with unfair export rules.\u201D I just don\u2019t understand that, quite frankly. It seems strange that the party claims to have all of these principles and that it stands by them, and yet Rod Donald\u2019s principles against the oxymoronic name of a bill in the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill\u2014they simply abandoned them then, in what would\u2019ve been so important to the Green Party. Then, in this case, where it\u2019s for the good of everybody, they maintain a \u201Cno way will we support this bill\u201D attitude, and I think that\u2019s very strange. I don\u2019t understand those principles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI want to give an example of Pacific trade that is working well, and it actually comes from the RSE scheme\u2014the Recognised Seasonal Employer scheme. Around 2,400 RSE workers come during the winter into my electorate in Kaik\u014Dura, particularly in the Marlborough region, and one of the employers there, Vinepower\u2014in Jono and Claire Bushell and Jason Kennard, who are the principals of that company\u2014employs people from Vanuatu, particularly. But they\u2019ve gone further than that: Jono and Claire spend six months of the year in Vanuatu, out on the island of Tanna, and they have helped the villagers set up a business bottling coconut oil and selling it. In fact, they sell it at the farmer\u2019s market in Blenheim and other places. I think that is a small but important trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EIt seems as though having anything to do with big business is a dirty word, but big business, like little business, is all about trade. It\u2019s all about getting goods from one market into another market for the betterment of both parties, and, as is certainly well-known in business circles, you\u2019ve got to leave something in it for the next person when you\u2019re trading. If you don\u2019t, then it won\u2019t work\u2014you won\u2019t have a business for very long\u2014and I think that\u2019s quite poorly understood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ERemittances are also quite important, from the RSE workers going back into the Pacific Islands, but not only that: when it comes close to the end of their time working in New Zealand, the groups from villages go and buy a lot of goods, put them into containers, and send them back to their islands. Those goods can be things from building materials to tractors to all sorts of things, so that they can enhance their own businesses and their own lifestyles in their villages. Now, that is, I admit, what you\u2019d call a cottage sort of export industry, but it is a very important industry for those villages and for the lifestyles of those people, and it\u2019s lifting up their lifestyles. To sit back and say, \u201CWell, we don\u2019t want to support free trade in the Pacific because we don\u2019t believe those people are actually able to make their own decisions in that area.\u201D\u2014I just don\u2019t accept that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ETo draw another analogy for you on that argument, if we look at the Brexit situation at the moment, who\u2019s the UK looking to for help in getting a trade policy together to actually negotiate trade agreements? It\u2019s New Zealand. It wasn\u2019t that many years ago that the UK joined the Common Market and New Zealand had a complete reset in its trade policy. We were in a very poor situation, and now we\u2019ve become a leading trading nation. How have we done that? By being in the game\u2014that\u2019s how we\u2019ve got there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo I think that to gloss over it in the way that the Green Party did shows a very poor understanding of trade in general, and a very poor understanding of business in general. That may not be surprising to anyone. I\u2019m absolutely delighted that the Labour Party is behind this\u2014they always have been\u2014and now it\u2019s great to see an epiphany on the part of New Zealand First. It would be great for them to have a few more. We could perhaps have a general debate where I could point out a few more epiphanies that they might like to have in the future, though that might be hoping a little bit too much. Anyway, look, with that in mind, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb34d66936ac47fe8a5573face53fad3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb34d66936ac47fe8a5573face53fad3\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank you very much. It\u2019s with real pleasure that I rise to talk and commend this bill, the Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill, to the House on its second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis is not a bill about free trade. There\u2019s never really been such a thing as free trade, and it\u2019s a bit pernicious to bandy that term about. What this is about is a framework of rules. We need regulated trade and we need fair trade, balanced trade, and sustainable trade. That\u2019s what this bill is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI must say, it is a huge step forward in trade agreements because, for the first time, it recognises that equitable trade does not necessarily mean the same rules for everyone. I\u2019m very pleased to see that in this PACER-Plus agreement, New Zealand and Australia are really stepping up to build the capacity in our Pacific neighbours to engage in meaningful trade by building capacity around customs procedures to ensure that the biosecurity measures are in place so that, in fact, those economies can develop, and wherever they develop, whether it be in agricultural exports, or whether it be in light industry, or fishing\u2014whatever it might be\u2014in fact, they can generate real wealth in their own countries by trade around the Pacific with New Zealand and Australia and elsewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo this trade agreement is an outstanding one because it\u2019s really based on the concept of trade for all. It isn\u2019t simply trade that benefits developed nations; it\u2019s trade that\u2019s based on a genuine understanding of both the economy and the culture of our neighbours, genuine friendship, mutual benefit, collective ambition, and sustainability. That really ties in with the Pacific reset. We simply don\u2019t want to have our neighbours limping along and leaning on us. We want to have them as empowered, fully developed nations with developed economies, generating wealth for their families. That is what this bill does, and for that reason I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226d5cc22d517b43d794a7f81a25c9780a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Tariff (PACER Plus) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000574\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022391800d04bee4db8b179c9c00babad8d\u0022\u003EStatutes Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022993c3de45851480badc804aa0525fbad\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000577\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 16 August.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002241f71216eeaa415aaed57cb0419ef6f8\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 28 and clauses 1 and 2 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002265e4bcce880c4a938a790b41dbc5caa9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265e4bcce880c4a938a790b41dbc5caa9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee for further consideration of the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2). Members, when we were last considering the bill, we were debating the question that Parts 1 to 28 and clauses 1 and 2 stand part. Dr Jian Yang was speaking, and has 3 minutes 51 seconds remaining should he so wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc38002fd67f4c3180889a5fb338b0f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc38002fd67f4c3180889a5fb338b0f4\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E OK, sorry, I didn\u2019t realise that. I thought\u2014well, it\u2019s good, it\u2019s great. Thank you, Mr Chair. As I said in my earlier speech actually, this bill, the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2), deals with a number of issues. Some amendments would make Acts more rational, some would update some Acts, and some would simply clarify the statements in some Acts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s look at Part 22, \u201CPolicing Act 2008\u201D. Part 22 would amend the Policing Act 2008. That would give police the power to basically destroy or give away some properties that police are holding. So at the moment, police have to sell the properties by auction, which is, of course, sometimes harder to do, because there are properties there which may not be valuable at all. So the police may decide that these properties are not particularly valuable and could be destroyed, or sometimes could be given away by the police. So that would give the police more freedom in dealing with lost or found property. That is basically making the Act more rational, I would say. So this is Part 22.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EAlso, then, if you look at some other parts in this bill, you will find that these amendments would clarify a few things. For example, Part 12. Part 12 would deal with the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act 2012. Now, basically, this would give this Act more clarity by clarifying some particular statements. If you look at Part 12, you will find that it says that clause 42 amends a transitional provision in section 164A relating to permits issued under the Maritime Transport Act 1994. The amendment provides that \u201C[A] reference in [the] permit to Maritime New Zealand, the Director of Maritime New Zealand, or the Director must be treated as if it were a reference to the Environmental Protection Authority.\u201D So this would clarify, basically, the reference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ENow, the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) is particularly important to us because we have about 4.1 million square kilometres of it, which is, of course, a huge area. It is actually about 15 times the land that we have. So the EEZ actually makes New Zealand a wealthy country in terms of resources. It is, therefore, very important for us to make sure we have a good understanding of the laws, and also to make sure that we are able to protect our EEZ. If you look at Part 2 of this bill, that is an attempt to amend the Biosecurity Act 1993.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u002232e09c194f14490e806cf6119134197f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232e09c194f14490e806cf6119134197f\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I want to thank the member Jian Yang for that contribution. I just want to take a brief call, and that is to say that in the previous sitting of the committee I had tabled before the committee of the whole House two Supplementary Order Papers for inclusion in this bill: Supplementary Order Paper 55, which amends the Customs and Excise Act 2018, and Supplementary Order Paper 53, which amends the Food Act 2014. Due to timing constraints on reaching cross-party support, I have withdrawn Supplementary Order Paper 53, and this will be addressed at some stage later in the legislative programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ESo I just want to clarify for the committee of the whole House that we will be progressing one Supplementary Order Paper, and that is Supplementary Order Paper 55, which amends the Customs and Excise Act 2018. The purpose of this amendment is to insert a new Part 9A into the bill to repeal clauses 30(1) and 31(1) in Part 5 of Schedule 3 of the Customs and Excise Act 2018. These clauses exempt champagne from excise equivalent duty under the 2018 Act, which is due to come into force on 1 October this year. This was not intended and would cost the Crown $2.7 million per year if the clauses are not removed. So I thought it was important to clarify that for the committee before we continue the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002212cf0ba448854286b81b862ae1d3468a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212cf0ba448854286b81b862ae1d3468a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the Hon Jacqui Dean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d2a3b066fae4995ba98908da78bc7c1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, good choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f23a129e668040afbad10c6af59be73f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f23a129e668040afbad10c6af59be73f\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m happy to take a call on the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2). We are debating all stages of the bill, and just to restate, probably, this is a tidy-up of legislation exercise. There might be some drafting errors, some oversights, some provisions that are non-controversial, and, indeed, the House does support this. There are a number of clauses in this bill, a number of changes to be made, much to the relief of the relevant Minister and department, no doubt. So I\u2019ll just go through a couple of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe Parole Act\u2014this is quite interesting, actually. So this bill will amend the Parole Act, and that will align the treatment of interim supervision orders and extended supervision orders. While National was in Government, we made some excellent changes and amendments to the Parole Act, and I\u2019m interested to see that this clause is in this bill. Currently the Act allows for an arrest without warrant to be made if there\u2019s been a breach of an extended supervision order. Extended supervision orders are an important tool that the justice system has. So this bill recommends in clause 60A amending section 73(2) of the Parole Act, and this would allow an arrest without warrant to be made for a breach of an interim supervision order. So this is absolutely logical, making good progress around justice laws in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s another one: the Public Records Act. So, yeah, this was around a name change, or not, clause. The Governance and Administration Committee recommended removing Part 25 of the bill. The amendments in that \u201Cwould change Archives New Zealand\u2019s name to the National Archives of New Zealand. We do not consider that this name change is necessary at this time.\u201D My colleagues are riveted. I\u2019m just having a look around the room\u2014yes, they are; across the Chamber\u2014again, riveted. I know you are\u2014or they are, because I wouldn\u2019t bring you in, Mr Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another one which I thought was worth a mention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5f942d9fd7e44d695cd6ed11b7d066c\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Just stay on that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022233ed12cbae44a0098b74603702a218c\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you want me to go over that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a80885c595b24a6198b1eb78ef62dadd\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9be8b709be1469fa3da338ebd637d2d\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I\u2019m going to move on. Just finally, the State-Owned Enterprises Act I think is worth a bit of a mention. This\u2014Part 27 of the bill, I\u2019m talking about\u2014seeks to amend the State-Owned Enterprises Act 1986. The amendments that are being put in through this Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2) would require State-owned enterprises to publish accountability documents online after, of course, they have been provided to the Minister. So the Minister receives the accountability document; it then becomes publicly available. And, of course, in 1986, when this State-Owned Enterprises Act was brought about, there were no online facilities for distributing documents. Actually, you do see this increasingly through New Zealand legislation. When a bill comes to select committee often there will be a clause in there which provides for the release of documents to be online, and I\u2019m thinking, maybe, of the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act\u2014that sort of public accountability and accessibility. Perhaps electoral law might be another example where we are now recognising that the New Zealand community is increasingly moving to an online platform, and the more we can put legislation online, the more accessible it becomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just checking my team to see whether they\u2019re riveted by\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222da0862c1568466d9785b93bad802ec0\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Yes!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243341850ca554412b00c975097011a06\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they are. And just checking over the other side\u2014yes, they are, because this is an important clause in this bill. I won\u2019t go on. I might take another call, because there are a number of other clauses in here that are probably worth a good going over, but in the meantime I know there will be other members of the committee just champing at the bit to make a contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca720cda07d345fda06c3dd01f338fc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca720cda07d345fda06c3dd01f338fc9\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I would like to acknowledge the previous speaker, the Hon Jacqui Dean, for taking three clauses which I was going to take. She has already addressed them, so I\u2019ll take some other clause. I would also like to acknowledge Minister Sio for letting us know that Supplementary Order Paper 53 has been withdrawn, otherwise I would have spoken on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EI would like to touch upon Part 19, \u201CJustices of the Peace Act 1957\u201D. Clause 57 states: \u201CThis Part amends the Justices of the Peace Act 1957 (the principal Act).\u201D It has been a coincidence that I had a constituent who came to my office regarding this issue. He retired, and wanted the word \u201Cretired\u201D with the title \u201CJP\u201D, because he was no more able to provide this service. By chance, this bill was in the House, and I discussed with him that there would be an amendment very soon, in the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2), which would give him that opportunity to have \u201C(retired)\u201D written with \u201CJP\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe reason was that he had had an accident, and due to that he is suffering from dementia, and he could not remember the things that were happening in the present. That\u2019s why he wanted to retire, but there was no provision. I am very pleased that this bill is addressing that issue, and somebody who has served less than 10 years can write as a \u201CJP (retired)\u201D because of this provision being ratified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe second part that I would like to touch upon is Part 21, \u201CPlumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Act 2006\u201D. I was part of the Government Administration Committee in my first two terms. It was very well chaired by the Hon Ruth Dyson, and she remembers that every term we had this Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Act addressed in some manner. Again, this term I have become part of the select committee, the Governance and Administration Committee, very well chaired by our colleague\u2014what\u2019s his name?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bf4e50e3f0d4c3cad675e8bce5147a4\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Brett Hudson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebd39daf394c43b68f26f3c0873fb368\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI\u003C/span\u003E: Brett Hudson\u2014exactly. I am touching on this part, where the board of drainlayers, gasfitters, and plumbers has got the right to impose some fees for the people who are doing this work. The ability to set the fees depends upon whether the notification is required under the prescribed terms and conditions of the licensee that operates the supervision. This is being done so that some money can be generated for the board for the running, and that is going to help through this provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe last part I would like to touch on is Part 22, \u201CPolicing Act 2008\u201D. Part 22 amends the Policing Act 2008. Clause 67 amends section 41, which relates to unclaimed property. I remember that this issue was raised some time ago\u2014that there is property under the supervision of the police which nobody claims, which does not have any value, and which the police can dispose of in due course. So this part will be amending the Policing Act. Subsection 5 of section 41 is replaced. The new subsection provides that property that is of little or low monetary value may be given away as an alternative to being destroyed, and that property that is not appropriate or practicable to sell may be destroyed or given away. That will reduce the burden on the police to take care of property that is not sellable or does not have much value.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThese are some of the things which are being addressed in this bill. We know that all the parties in the House are supportive because these are non-contentious issues. There is no opposition to this Statutes Amendment Bill. I commend it to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022c39f1b58b96043059e54d1a8d0e74568\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c39f1b58b96043059e54d1a8d0e74568\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. What a pleasure to be talking tonight. We\u2019ve been away on recess, and, you know, we all miss this place. Of course, I wanted to talk about something quite dear to my heart, it\u2019s called the Public Finance Act 1989. Of course, as we all know, finances drive this economy and drive the ability to be able to spend on good social programmes. If we\u2019re slack and lazy, that means we have less money to look after the good people of New Zealand, and that\u2019s why I think this Government needs to be held to account, and that\u2019s why this bill is very relevant: because it actually has a lot about the Public Finance Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWhat I would like to talk about\u2014apart from just congratulating all the good members from this side who have done such wonderful speeches tonight; the only thing that\u2019s missing is some wonderful contributions from the Government side. I\u2019m feeling sad that our listeners can\u2019t hear Government spokespeople actually stand up and deliver something that\u2019s worthwhile in the Parliament tonight, because this is an important piece of legislation, as everyone has remarked, because these are the little changes that mean that we can achieve the great things for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOf course, this piece of legislation is always put through the House from time to time to try and tidy up things that do need addressing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bc9ba2f206a4b858ae45620c474fa22\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Say something relevant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230922896332c43e49601e4cb141659f5\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: I heard something from Mr Eagle over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e36db38e50e4447ab27507c50c411cf\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: No; it was me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bfcd618649a4d3d8d6645e98979259f\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Mr Parker. I\u2019m glad you\u2019re here, Associate Minister of Finance, with a razor mind, thinking about these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe issues I want to talk about are clauses 76 and 77, on the Reserves Boards. What this Governance and Administration Committee amendment in the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2) does is it actually strikes out clauses 76 and 77. What that means\u2014and I know you will be someone who has a great deal of expertise in this, Mr Chair\u2014is that these relate to schedule 4 organisations. Some of you may wonder what those might mean, but probably the best example, I think, might be where you\u2019ve got small private cemeteries that are looked after by volunteers in remote parts of the country, even in parts of my electorate in South Auckland, where they are under an obligation to provide an audit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOf course, you\u2019ll probably be aware that Audit New Zealand, I think from memory, does about 3,500 audits a year. Many of them relate to very, very small entities. What this does is provide some flexibility. Those wonderful volunteers that go out every week and mow the lawns, get the weed-eater out\u2014it\u2019s good exercise\u2014and look after those little cemetery plots in many of these places where many people do not even know that they exist: they\u2019re the hard-working Kiwis, and what this does is reduce the burden that\u2019s placed upon them. Often they\u2019ve been set up as a historical trust\u2014or a company or a partnership; but often a trust\u2014that may have been in existence for 100 years, and this removes the requirement for an audit. It removes the requirement for the audit, which means that the Audit Office can actually concentrate on those entities that really do need to be focused on to make sure everyone is paying their proper share of taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, what this does is it sets\u2014at the moment there\u2019s a threshold of $100,000, and that\u2019s quite a high threshold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb3c61fe527840e8819c5a78f52048af\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t go!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3d839c1f0af4dd99eae111f3e133c94\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very sad to see more Government members taking a walk\u2014I don\u2019t know where to, but they\u2019re taking a walk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWhat this does is it has a $100,000 threshold, and on the face of it, for an audit, that\u2019s actually quite a lot of money. What this does, under new section 450AAB, is gives the Governor-General the power to amend the $100,000 amount by Order in Council made on the joint recommendation of the Minister\u2014currently the Minister of Finance\u2014and the Minister of Conservation. Now, by being judicious about that, that means that we can capture a whole range of these small trusts and entities and actually look at that $100,000, because that is actually quite\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe3d6009ebf34f4b8f500d8a979c3453\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe3d6009ebf34f4b8f500d8a979c3453\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Malo e lelei. Kia ora an\u014D\u2014kia ora an\u014D. In standing to address the committee on the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2), perusing through this, it is about tidying up legislation, as my colleague the Hon Jacqui Dean indicated, and clarifying minor technical corrections that need to be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EAs I have perused through this bill, it\u2019s interesting that now, as a member of Parliament, I note that there are a number of parts to this bill, as proposed amendments, that I have acted upon as counsel. I refer specifically to Part 3, \u201CCare of Children Act 2004\u201D, and Part 4, \u201CChild Support Act 1991\u201D. The parts that I\u2019ll be reading out in the relevant corresponding legislation are about aligning them in terms of an amendment, where a lawyer appointed to represent a child or young person or to assist the court may submit his or her invoice for fees and expenses to any registrar of the court. Previously, it was the case that counsel, having been appointed by the particular court, was required to file their invoice to that court that they were appointed by, which may have been out of town at times. So that\u2019s Part 5. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThere is also Part 11, which is to do with the Domestic Violence Act. Again, similarly, it is about streamlining and increasing efficiencies to facilitate the development of a central unit for the processing and payment of service provider invoices. So where counsel have been appointed by the court to assist in that capacity, either representing a child or any other person or a party, with this amendment under the Statutes Amendment Bill, they are now enabled to file the expenses to any registrar of the court. So that\u2019s for Part 13 as well, \u201CFamily Proceedings Act 1980\u201D, and Part 23, \u201CProtection of Personal and Property Rights Act 1988\u201D. This is all legislation under this bill that is standardising and making consistent and aligning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also interesting that I note there are other provisions under this bill where the amendments proposed are for pieces of legislation on which I\u2019ve appeared before the court in acting and addressing the court. I refer to Part 10, \u201CDistrict Court Act 2016\u201D, where it is conferred on community magistrates and justices of the peace the same powers as judges to deal with contempt in the course of proceedings before them. There has been occasion when, as counsel, I have appeared in court, judges have been abused, magistrates have been abused, and justices of the peace have been abused. However, there has not been recourse for our magistrates and justices of the peace, as there now is with this proposed amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI also speak further to my participation and involvement with justices of the peace at Part 19 of this bill, \u201CJustices of the Peace Act 1957\u201D, which seeks to enable or to empower the Secretary for Justice to authorise a justice of the peace with fewer than 10 years of service to use the designation \u201CJP (retired)\u201D\u2014that is, if the secretary thinks it appropriate in the circumstances, which may be ill health, injury, or disability, to have them designated as a JP (retired), rather than having to, in effect, serve 10 years of service before that recognition and acknowledgment is duly accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI also refer to another piece of legislation that I have acted upon as counsel. Part 20, \u201CParole Act 2002\u201D, makes it an offence to breach an extended supervision order. There is an amendment proposed, adding a new offence where a breach of an interim supervision order would require imposition of a penalty\u2014previously, it hasn\u2019t. Importantly, under the Parole Act there is a further proposed amendment, significantly, placing on the chief executive similar requirements to notify victims in respect of these interim supervision orders that have been breached. The same entitlement or standard that is there for the extended supervision order is now proposed with the amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThere are other pieces under this legislation that, opportunity permitted, I would speak to. Time permitting, it is a case of other members within my party to address the Chairman, unless the Hon Aupito William Sio wishes to respond to any part that has been addressed to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 55 in the name of the Hon Aupito William Sio be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 28 and clauses 1 and 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002205f6d6a9b9164d2babf4da233205aac8\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u00223eee17a0c5544a8b86a30b5f3f33a091\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223eee17a0c5544a8b86a30b5f3f33a091\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EBy their very nature, statutes amendment bills do not address significant policy matters. These amendments are technical; they are short and non-controversial. They make amendments that individually would not receive the necessary priority to be progressed, and they are a very important and vital part of the Government\u2019s legislation programme\u2014the Government of the day\u2014and they allow us to keep the law up to date and accurate. Many of the amendments in the bill are designed to correct drafting errors, omissions, and incorrect references. Some amendments make improvements to how some Acts work in practice. Other amendments\u2014changes\u2014make technical changes to facilitate functions of governance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EFollowing consideration by the Governance and Administration Committee, the bill was reported back with two parts removed and one new part inserted, as well as a number of minor tweaks to existing amendments. The bill before the House has had a further part inserted by a Supplementary Order Paper, and this brings the final total to 29 Acts administered by 12 different Government agencies. As you will be aware, the committee voted to include Supplementary Order Paper 55, that I tabled, in the bill. This Supplementary Order Paper makes minor but urgent changes. It amends the Customs and Excise Act 2018, which is expected to come into force on 1 October this year. Without this amendment, champagne would have been inadvertently exempted from excise-equivalent duty, which represents approximately $2.7 million per year in revenue for the Crown. This amendment remedies that omission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe amendments in this Supplementary Order Paper are suitable for inclusion in a statutes amendment bill. All parties were consulted on this Supplementary Order Paper and they supported the inclusion in the bill at this later stage. I just want to summarise by saying that these Supplementary Order Papers are important. They do not change policy in a significant way. They are minor, they are short, and they fix a range of legislation, and they are the key way that the Government ensures that legislation keeps up with changes and remains fit for purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge a number of people who were instrumental in the passage of this Statutes Amendment Bill. I, firstly, want to acknowledge members of the Governance and Administration Committee for their time and effort, and for including amendments to the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act in the bill. Secondly, I want to thank the committee of the whole House for voting in favour of the Supplementary Order Paper that I tabled. Finally, I want to thank all parliamentary parties for their backing of the amendments contained in the bill. This bill was supported by every party at each stage of the process and does demonstrate the importance of working together as members and representatives of this House. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224726b0ad3dae4a849270239b4be3d77e\u0022\u003EConservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002264785ff0823f4afba2654f226cd95471\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00226c4e5e005202493689bcc6e043d5c093\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c4e5e005202493689bcc6e043d5c093\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Environment Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOur indigenous freshwater fish are a precious part of Aotearoa\u2019s natural heritage. Freshwater fisheries are also important economically, culturally, and socially. But as Minister of Conservation, I have inherited an antiquated legal framework for managing these fish, including regulations that haven\u2019t been reviewed since 1983. So this bill is a small but important step towards providing a better framework for improving the protection and management of indigenous fish and fisheries. We need to prevent the loss of any more native freshwater fish species and restore the health of their populations and fisheries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe bill doesn\u2019t make major changes to how fish are managed on the ground in lakes, streams, and wetlands, and I\u2019m committed to fully engaging with iwi and the public before any changes are made here. What it does do is make some technical changes to the Conservation Act 1987 to give us better tools to manage both indigenous fish and noxious fish like koi carp. It fixes some uncertainties and gaps in the law and will enable better regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo why do we need this bill? New Zealand has 77 species of freshwater fish\u201456 of those are indigenous, and most of them are found nowhere else in the world. Twenty-one of our 56 indigenous freshwater fish species are threatened with extinction, and that\u2019s a higher proportion than in almost any other country. Most of these fish, including some of those which are closest to extinction, are little known. They are often nocturnal, they are shy, and many of our lowland waterways no longer have healthy populations of them. With species like eels and the species that make up the whitebait fishery, they are important fisheries, but they are also in trouble. It\u2019s hard to believe that whitebait were once caught in such quantities that they were used as fertiliser, but over the last century, all of our native freshwater fisheries\u2014eels, whitebait, lamprey\u2014have experienced catastrophic declines. That\u2019s due to drainage of wetlands, declining water quality, obstacles to fish passage and their ability to move between fresh water and the sea, and the loss of spawning sites. So we need to tackle all of these issues if we are to restore our fisheries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EFreshwater fish and indigenous fisheries are managed by the Department of Conservation (DOC) under the Conservation Act, and by Fisheries New Zealand under the Fisheries Act. Broadly, DOC manages all freshwater fish species, the whitebait fishery, noxious fish, fish passage, and indirect threats to fish, such as impacts on spawning sites; Fisheries New Zealand manages customary fisheries, aquaculture, and the eel fishery. So the bill clarifies the relationship between the Fisheries Act and the Conservation Act. It changes the definition of freshwater fish to make it clear that species which occasionally use fresh water, like mullet and kahawai, are managed under the Fisheries Act rather than the Conservation Act. It also makes changes to clarify how fisheries management arrangements under Treaty settlement legislation relate to management arrangements under the Conservation Act. In clauses like clause 5, that\u2019s changing the provisions for freshwater fish management plans so that the department can prepare a statutory plan for a particular freshwater fish species, and have it apply nationally if that was desirable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe only native fish in Aotearoa which enjoys legal protection is the grayling, and it\u2019s extinct. So native fish\u2014if they\u2019re in waterways in national parks and scenic reserves, they are protected from fishing, but if they\u2019re in a conservation park, they\u2019re not. The bill changes this so that native fish in waterways are given the same level of protection as other native wildlife and plants in conservation areas. In other words, if fishing is to occur, it needs to be specifically authorised. The bill also protects fish in local council reserves from recreational fishing, unless the council has specifically authorised that through a sign, for example. That covers situations where communities want eels and other native fish in their local recreation reserves to be protected from fishing, but none of these changes affect customary fishing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe bill will make it easier for teachers and others to educate the public and students about native fish, by deleting the current regulations which make it illegal to take native fish out of a stream\u2014fish like bullies\u2014show them to students, and then return them promptly to the waterway without being harmed. That\u2019s currently illegal; the bill removes those regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EClause 9 relates to spawning sites, and it will provide more flexibility around how these sites are protected. Fish have very strong preferences for where they lay their eggs. The number of eggs they lay and the proportion of those which hatch depend on the availability and quality of the spawning sites. For example, with inanga\u2014one of our whitebait species\u2014they lay their eggs in vegetation on the banks of streams, at spring tides, at the highest point that the saltwater reaches. They need thick vegetation on those spawning sites to catch the eggs, to keep them moist, and to prevent them from drying and dying. So where you\u2019ve got concrete and rock gabions and closely mown lawns, that means that the spawning site won\u2019t have successful spawning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAt the moment, the Conservation Act protects eggs and it makes damage to spawning sites an offence. What the bill will do is allow regulations to define what activities constitute damage to a spawning site and what don\u2019t, and that will provide more flexibility. It means that things like mowing a riverbank at certain times of the year, where the spawning is not going to occur and there\u2019s no risk to the eggs, can occur, and that might be needed for things like flood control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EClause 12 amends section 26ZM of the Conservation Act, and that\u2019s the section which controls the movement of fish between water bodies. It clarifies the application of that section, because both DOC and Fisheries New Zealand have experienced problems in how that section applies to issues like fish movement, and the issues that arise there around biosecurity and the disease risks to other fish. It will also streamline the process for low-risk decisions. Clause 13 amends and clarifies the existing provisions which allow temporary closures of fisheries, for a period of up to five years, and this is needed sometimes to allow for a research project, for restoration work to be undertaken, or to give the fishery a chance to recover from an adverse event, and longer-term closures can be made through regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EMost of the controls on fishing and the activities that affect our indigenous fish are done through regulations. There are regulations which control whitebaiting, barriers to fish passage, and noxious fish, and what the bill does is provide some new regulation-making powers to fill some significant gaps in these powers. At the moment, there\u2019s no power in section 48A of the Conservation Act to make regulations on noxious fish, and only limited powers to regulate barriers to fish passage. So DOC hasn\u2019t been able to update the 1983 regulations that it inherited, and the bill will fill this gap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EHaving the ability to make regulations to control activities like emptying drains and then killing the fish in the process, or emptying the pumps that you can sometimes have in flood-control schemes, will allow better protection for our native fish. I would note that in drafting the bill, there\u2019s been quite a lot of care taken to ensure that it doesn\u2019t impact on the ability of the managers of sports fisheries, such as Fish \u0026amp; Game, to do their work, but I\u2019m aware that Fish \u0026amp; Game may believe that the bill could better address the interface issues between their management of sports fish and the Department of Conservation\u2019s management of indigenous fish. I\u2019m confident that a further clarification is needed here. This can be done through the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill is technical in nature. It\u2019s designed to amend the tool box for fisheries management rather than to change management on the ground, and it is a vital first step to improve the management of our very special indigenous freshwater fish, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022 data-id=\u00228d1a9b45852342a4a532a0c368cd4877\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d1a9b45852342a4a532a0c368cd4877\u0022\u003ESARAH DOWIE (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. As the spokesperson on conservation for the New Zealand National Party, and as lead for this bill for our members on the Environment Committee, it\u2019s a pleasure to lead off this debate from our side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EIt may be surprising to the Minister of Conservation, but we, too, believe in protecting our indigenous freshwater fish, so we will be supporting this bill at the first reading and to select committee. However, I do wish to make it very clear that we have some concerns and some reservations about this bill. We have concerns about its reach, and about some of the ramifications it will have on our recreational fishers and some of the costs that it may pose toward private land owners. So while we are happy to send the bill to select committee, we will be very vigilant about it. We will be questioning officials. We will be taking heed of what the submitters say. We\u2019ll also be expecting quite a wide consultation process given that there was certainly a lack of consultation before the introduction of this bill. We want to make sure that the effects of this are truly investigated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EI do want to commend the Minister with respect to her acknowledgment of the importance of indigenous freshwater fish in New Zealand and with respect to freshwater ecosystems. From my research, I see that there are 57 species of freshwater fish and 22 of them are threatened with extinction. As the Minister noted, our freshwater fish play a really important role in aquatic ecosystems with respect to the recycling of nutrients. So their extinction or decline can pose a serious risk on our freshwater systems and their productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EShe mentioned the longfin eel before and, actually, freshwater-wise they\u2019re one of my favourites, albeit very prehistoric looking. They may not be as cuddly as, obviously, some of our native birds but they\u2019re certainly unique to New Zealand. If you watch any of the fishing shows, they\u2019re often held up as quite a significant and unique beast in New Zealand. But not only that, they\u2019re a valuable part of our commercial fishery. So it is important that the population is monitored and obviously it is a productive one. In fact, the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research Ltd estimates that the commercial eel fishery is worth about $6.1 million annually. So the future of our eel population is certainly important from an economic point of view as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EI want to recognise that despite our efforts in the freshwater space, the productivity of freshwater fish populations and their size has decreased over the past 50 years to 100 years, especially with regards to whitebait. With the opening of the season, it\u2019s certainly been back on the radar of people whitebaiting. The Department of Conservation (DOC), obviously, regulates the activity of whitebaiting, not with respect to catch size but it limits the methods and seasons and hour in which whitebaiting can occur. But it was stated by DOC, and it has been indicated, that it is freshwater habitat loss and degradation which is the significant problem with respect to the whitebait population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003ESo our position\u2014obviously when we were in Government we were the first Government to bring in freshwater standards. We were concentrating on freshwater ecosystems through targeted funding and with restoring habitats, and certainly recognising the importance, for example, of wetlands. Waituna, down in my area, is no exception. It received extra funding to help its management. Of course, we looked at the eradication of invasive estuary weeds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003ESo I again reiterate that we are supporting this bill at first reading but we do have significant concerns with respect to whether these changes are going to be measured, whether they are sensible, and whether or not they will unreasonably or unfairly impact recreational fishers and/or cost private land owners significant amounts of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EWith respect to a few finer points of the bill, as the Minister has mentioned, it doesn\u2019t in itself, on the face of it, bring any new management measures into the current regime, but it does allow the Minister of Conservation to review and improve old regulations on which fish passage and the control or eradication of noxious fish can occur. So, again, while we\u2019re looking to improve the protection of indigenous freshwater species, we do have concerns as to the reach of how far that can go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EThe first concern that I have is that further reform or too much reform in this area, as I\u2019ve mentioned, could have significant cost on private land owners. One of the things that has been recognised is that there could be designated significant spawning habitat of, let\u2019s say, whitebait on private land, and the question then becomes as to its management, its rehabilitation, and its protection, and where the cost falls with regards to that habitat on private land. We\u2019re talking about more than protection on the conservation estate; we\u2019re talking about going further and extending that to private land owners. Land adjacent to whitebait spawning areas are not off the table in which the Department of Conservation officials will look at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EA certain case study and concern of mine\u2014while it\u2019s a very good conservation outcome\u2014was when I visited Denmark and they had significant trout issues, population issues, and, in some Scandinavian countries, extinctions. What they legislated for was that fish passage across rivers that were on private land needed to be cleared and that fish passage needed to be accommodated for. The cost of that fell on the private land owners. They were able to reintroduce trout and obviously maintain healthy populations, but like I say, that significant cost did fall on the private land owners, and we will need to question, in our case, as to the extent of that in the realm of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EThe bill also allows the Department of Conservation to manage water flows: so discharges, intakes, flood control works, and any infrastructure that may go to control that. So, again, where does the cost fall? Do we really need this extra tier of freshwater fish management, will it be arbitrary, how will it be controlled, and where will the costs fall? The other thing is that, as the Minister noted, it can allow the Department of Conservation to close certain fisheries and so this would adversely affect our whitebaiters and others that catch native fish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EAnother thing that the Minister noted is that DOC\u2019s native fish plans would actually take precedence over sports fish plans. So the Department of Conservation\u2019s direction would outrank the longstanding tried and true management system of fish and game councils, which are designed for representation and implementation at the coalface. Certainly, in Southland we take our recreational fishing very seriously. We take our hunting very, very seriously\u2014as I\u2019m sure others do on the West Coast and further north. Duck shooting weekend in Southland is like a provincial staple. Certainly, recreational fishing puts food on the table, it provides tourism opportunities, it contributes to our economy, and the simple act of recreation as well. It provides enjoyment, it provides relaxation and exercise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003ESo, again, coming back to the lack of consultation, the fact that some of these stakeholders, Fish \u0026amp; Game, have not been consulted is very, very disappointing. That was certainly noted by Treasury in the regulatory impact statement\u2014a lack of consultation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003ESo we support this bill at first reading, but we will be taking a closer look at it at the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00220953c50aeda845ef813db166ffe834e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220953c50aeda845ef813db166ffe834e0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment)\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I take a call on behalf of the Labour Party in support of this bill at first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECan I respond to the last speaker\u2019s comments about what a landowner\u2019s rights are. The idea that a landowner who owns a wetland somehow is facing a cost if they can\u2019t reclaim it, is wrong. The idea that a landowner who owns a wetland, because they own a piece of land that includes a wetland, somehow has a private property right that enables them to destroy that wetland, is wrong. That\u2019s never been part of the private property right in New Zealand, and it shouldn\u2019t be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe member who has just spoken, Sarah Dowie, said that the last Government had acted on water issues. Well, actually what they did was spike the national policy statement that was going to prevent further intensification of land use and caused our water problems to get worse. In respect of wetland protection\u2014and I accept that the member Sarah Dowie is well-informed on these issues and is well-meaning, having, before being elected, been an employee of the Department of Conservation (DOC) in the Southland area, and she\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022444076a51751430e8cc3716b0f6ca1ad\u0022\u003ESarah Dowie\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t hold that against me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295c4330d2f06439bbda946cbbeff3a87\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I don\u2019t hold that against you\u2014now lives in Invercargill. I\u2019ve got to say, the stats I\u2019ve been provided with show that due to the fact that there has been a lot of wetland reclamation over the years long gone, New Zealand has lost 90 percent of its wetlands already. The biggest problem that we\u2019ve got with native fish is actually habitat. We\u2019ve already lost 90 percent, but the sad truth is that the State of the Environment report that came out earlier in the year said that we\u2019re still losing them. In respect of Southland, they said that in the period since 2007\u2014which is, essentially, the period of the last Government\u2014Southland lost another thousand hectares of wetland. That\u2019s why we\u2019re running out of native fish\u2014we\u2019re running out of native fish habitat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, I know there are water-quality issues and there are fish passage issues as well, but it\u2019s interesting that the areas where we have the greatest abundance of whitebait left are actually on the West Coast, where the habitat hasn\u2019t been as modified. Essentially, if we\u2019re going to save our native fish from becoming extinct\u2014and I think it\u2019s terribly sad that unless we do something different in our country, more species of native fish are going to become extinct. That\u2019s the trajectory that we\u2019re already on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo I agree with Minister Eugenie Sage bringing this bill to this Parliament, because part of the answer lies in this bill. Actually, this bill, overall, is not really where we can protect habitat. That\u2019s more to be done in the national instruments under the Resource Management Act in respect of fresh water, including estuarine areas, and, again, it\u2019s notable that the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management that the last Government promulgated doesn\u2019t properly control for these effects. So that\u2019s one of the areas that we\u2019re going to have to have another look at the national policy statement and do better in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the issues that are raised in respect of predator fish, it is true that introduced species, including trout and salmon, quite like the little cockabully if it goes past. Now, that doesn\u2019t mean to say that we should be ignoring the proper role of Fish \u0026amp; Game to look after the sports fisheries, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201a349f5b935433e8a812231763c0865\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s your mate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b571d7edff049fd88d1d20f6ef03b4a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8484b733ff14a5e8c92acc16f1d5659\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s your mate who\u2019s running it. Martin\u2019s your mate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a809de85b35a422288e3648be9173e0f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s very competent. He\u2019s behind you, looking down at your bald spot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad1ce57d73494a3b8e98c91d851da0ce\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Now that\u2019s a Minister that shouldn\u2019t be talking about bald spots. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022664520cd2f7e49879051336af9dff390\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s true, too. That\u2019s true too. But it\u2014[Interruption] It is true that I have a bald spot. It\u2019s also true that in terms of the parts of habitat in New Zealand that do not currently have sports fish in them, actually, we do have to be careful that they don\u2019t expand into those areas, because those are some of the remaining habitats that have not been subject to predation pressure by introduced sports fish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI am sure that that issue can be worked through between Fish \u0026amp; Game and the Department of Conservation. My understanding is that the greater concern in respect of introduced fish is the likes of koi carp. Now, I was shocked, upon becoming Minister in the current Government, when I went to have a look at some of the problems in the Waikato catchment about how bad the problems with koi carp are there. They are an introduced goldfish that grow to a large size in the wild and, uncontrolled, their spread of population is awful. There are farmers and other community members in the Waikato catchment who are just tearing their hair out, but no matter what they do to improve fresh water quality, they can\u2019t get on top of the problem caused by koi carp. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EKoi carp burrow into the beds of the rivers and the banks. They kick up sediment. They really ruin the habitat. It\u2019s a problem that we haven\u2019t got under control in New Zealand, and we don\u2019t really know at the moment how far they\u2019re spreading. Sadly, there are occasions where New Zealanders deliberately spread them because they like the fish to catch and eat, but it causes such terrible problems environmentally that we\u2019ve really got to do a bit better with koi carp. So if we need more regulation-making powers on the part of the Minister to control koi carp\u2014and I think we do\u2014I\u2019m in favour of that because they really are a scorge, a scourge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f57288df79e848a1b9bf6bad75d6660a\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CA scourge\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290a4f19214754bf0b7e72283b0dfda7c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, a scourge\u2014thank you. So I don\u2019t think I need to say much beyond that. I do think we need to look at these issues as to the border between DOC and Fish \u0026amp; Game on this. I note that Fish \u0026amp; Game do have statutory authority in respect of sports fish, so I\u2019m sure that we can work those issues through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EA final point before I sit: I hope that you have the ability to look at tidal flaps. Tidal flaps are used as a cheap way of reclaiming land. They stop the tidal inflow coming in on the incoming tide. They block it because they push against the drain and then against the culvert, and then, as the water builds up when there\u2019s a low tide, it opens up and it drains the water. They are an effective, really cheap way of, effectively, draining wetlands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI was involved in litigation with this years ago, where we put a stop to any more of them on the Merton tidal arm, and the structures that were then consented\u2014at a time when perhaps we weren\u2019t aware of the threats in respect of the extinction of native fish\u2014were time-limited, but the practice has been that we should always just renew them. I think we actually need to look at whether we\u2019ve got that right as a country, because we really are running out of native fish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d842cae69da24de1b9e629322d8ad685\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d842cae69da24de1b9e629322d8ad685\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I appreciate the opportunity to take a call in this first reading of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill. I just wanted to make a couple of comments about the contribution made by the Hon David Parker, because I thought he brought some thoughtful consideration to the interconnectivity of a range of issues that this bill seeks to address. He effectively highlighted the complicated nature of our ecosystem, of our freshwater ways, of our water quality, of wetlands, of indigenous species and of introduced species, and how no one single factor really is dominant in terms of the long-term preservation of indigenous freshwater species, but they are under threat from a range of activities\u2014human, physical, historic\u2014that have caused us to get to a fairly awful state where so many of those species are now under threat of extinction, and, certainly, that\u2019s not something that any of us want to have occur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EHe particularly made a point about the issue of koi carp. I know that in my electorate of the Coromandel, across the Hauraki Plains, that is an issue in the waterways and the drains, and in the areas where koi carp are prevalent, farmers do tear their hair out. Minister Parker acknowledged his bald spot. I\u2019m sure that that has occurred not for any reason to do with koi carp, but it does highlight the overarching concern of a wide range of New Zealanders who have multiple interests in ensuring that our indigenous freshwater fish species are preserved, maintained, and enhanced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI wanted to just also comment on Minister Sage\u2019s introductory speech. She made it very clear that she had a preference to be utterly committed to engaging with the public and iwi, but in terms of that engagement, she didn\u2019t actually mention Fish \u0026amp; Game until very late in her contribution, and I think that is a bit of a challenge around this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo my colleague Sarah Dowie, who is the National Party\u2019s conservation spokesperson, has acknowledged that we are intending to support this bill to first reading. We\u2019ll send it to select committee. But as is the case with so much legislation, the devil is in the detail, and I regret to say that this Minister introducing this bill is rapidly developing a reputation for being well intentioned but not good on detail. There are some concerns in this bill that highlight that lack of attention to detail yet again, and only go to enforce, or reinforce, the rapidly growing perception of a Minister who\u2019s not completely over her portfolio areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThis bill is well intended. It seeks to make amendments to some legislation that is now quite old\u2014probably no longer fit for purpose. But there are some issues. There\u2019s no mechanism in the bill, for instance, to ensure that Fish \u0026amp; Game is consulted before decisions are taken by the Department of Conservation that could negatively impact on sports fish management in New Zealand. And that\u2019s an obvious and glaring oversight in this legislation\u2014so much so that Fish \u0026amp; Game have taken it upon themselves to seek independent legal advice ahead of this bill being introduced, and they\u2019ve gone to none other than that well-respected oracle on things legal, Sir Geoffrey Palmer, Queen\u2019s Counsel, no less. They\u2019ve commissioned an opinion from Sir Geoffrey Palmer that creates some obvious concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sure that Fish \u0026amp; Game, at select committee, will make a detailed submission to the committee, and it will largely be based on the legal opinion that\u2019s been provided by Sir Geoffrey. But Fish \u0026amp; Game, as members will know, represents the 110,000 anglers and some 30,000 game bird hunters who are active in New Zealand. And when they look at legislation that comes before this House, they look at it in terms of a starting position that basically says, \u201CDoes this legislation maintain Fish \u0026amp; Game\u2019s status quo position? Does it improve their interests, or does it undermine the interests of Fish \u0026amp; Game?\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EFrighteningly, in terms of this piece of legislation, Sir Geoffrey, in his legal opinion, has identified some very significant issues for Fish \u0026amp; Game. His conclusion, in his legal opinion, is that, and I quote, \u201Caspects of the reforms impact directly and negatively on Fish \u0026amp; Game\u201D. And he specifically draws attention to proposed clause 6, which, in Sir Geoffrey\u2019s opinion, he believes will allow Treaty settlements to actually override the several important elements of the sport fisheries management regime that exists in New Zealand and has done for a long period of time. Indeed, he cites a case from the Court of Appeal in McRitchie v Taranaki Fish and Game Council back in 1999, where those matters were traversed and canvassed, and where those matters that are of great concern to Fish \u0026amp; Game, in terms of the legal opinion provided by Sir Geoffrey, are highlighted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESir Geoffrey goes on in his legal opinion\u2014and I\u2019m sure that the Minister will be taking careful consideration of this. Sir Geoffrey says, and I quote, \u201CI consider that this bill has the potential to seriously impact on Fish \u0026amp; Game\u2019s interests. The amendments are, on the whole, quite technical. Aspects of them will impact on the sports fishery regime managed by Fish \u0026amp; Game. I understand that Fish \u0026amp; Game were not consulted on the bill despite the impact on its interests, and I consider that to be concerning and unusual. Fish \u0026amp; Game is a statutory body that has a no-surprises arrangement recorded in its memorandum of understanding with the Department of Conservation, and that does not seem to have been honoured here.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIn fact, if one turns to the departmental disclosure statement there are some concerning matters in that that go to the very core of the lack of consultation, which again goes to reinforce the impression that this Minister hasn\u2019t done the detail, hasn\u2019t done the homework, and isn\u2019t across her portfolio. It says that \u201CThe Bill only relates to indigenous freshwater fish, and threats to those fish (including noxious fish). The Bill does not relate to introduced sports fish\u201D. Then when we get to paragraph 2.3.1 of that paper, the question is asked \u201CIf so, did the RIA Team in the Treasury provide an independent opinion on the quality of any of these regulatory impact statements?\u201D And the answer is \u201CThe review team considers\u201D\u2014and this is Treasury, remember, saying this\u2014\u201CThe review team considers that it partially meets the quality assurance criteria. \u2026 However\u201D\u2014and it\u2019s a big however\u2014\u201Cthe key constraint, which has been acknowledged in the Regulatory Impact Assessment, is that the time frame did not allow consultation with iwi and stakeholders.\u201D It goes on to say \u201Cstakeholders are likely to have some concerns about the lack of consultation and the limited scope of the review.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo here we have Treasury, the advisers to Government\u2014on this piece of legislation at its first reading, coming to the House in what clearly is an incomplete and not fully prepared situation. Now, that\u2019s just not good enough. Notwithstanding the good intentions of the bill\u2014again, the detail and the preparation has not been achieved. It\u2019s not been fulfilled, and it goes to a Minister who is keen on getting something into the House, hoping that the select committee will do the legwork on her behalf, and that the select committee will do the consultation with Fish \u0026amp; Game that hasn\u2019t been even attempted to have taken place during the preparation phase for this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo, in summary, Opposition members in the National Party will support this bill at first reading, but we have some grave reservations about the detail; we have some grave reservations about the lack of consultation; and we have some grave reservations about the intent, hidden or otherwise, that this bill may seek to achieve. In short, we are concerned that there is a hidden agenda here, so we will be on great alert at select committee as we peruse the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u002284fddb8e3c194986bf3287a9f8689726\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284fddb8e3c194986bf3287a9f8689726\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First\u2014and my colleague, Jenny Marcroft\u2014to take a call on the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill. New Zealand First will be supporting this bill at first reading, but we cannot commit to supporting it further. We have some concerns\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268606ec9897443489fdd7e7e37f8306b\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, coalition\u2019s falling apart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c0221b5733b433ba2164c32925060fc\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but let\u2019s start with\u2014oh, Mr Guy. What\u2019s really interesting, what is incredibly interesting about a working coalition Government, is that the National Party doesn\u2019t recognise it. The National Party doesn\u2019t actually recognise how a group of people can come together and discuss things in a grown-up and constructive way, and actually make things better. But that would be because Mr Guy and the National Party have never had to discuss anything with the cling-ons that they have been in Government with before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EIf we come to the bill, let\u2019s start with the bits that are good. Let\u2019s start with the bits that New Zealand First supports. So first of all, we actually support\u2014the Minister of Conservation quite clearly articulated about what has actually been a silly piece of legislation before, where, for example, the Wai Care project that many of our schools run to make sure that our young people are able to participate in greater learning about what is their natural environment, what is part of protecting the future of New Zealand, by going down into the streams and waterways that feed into the major waterways around their schooling areas and taking out some of the living organisms in that stream for a short period of time\u2014strangely enough, they work with the Department of Conservation to do this. And the clarity, what is in that waterway\u2014they learn how that shows the clarity of that water, how clean the streams are, and they quite quickly put them back. The whole purpose is to teach the young people how to be part of what is the process of actually protecting our nation. New Zealand First celebrates the changing of that piece of legislation to make sure that the Wai Care project and similar projects in combination with our education system and the Department of Conservation can go forward, without worrying about six-year-olds or 10-year-olds being arrested for taking bullies out of the stream. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EAround fish passageways, those migrating fish that need to get to places and where man-made implements have been put in their way\u2014again, we celebrate the fact that there must be a much more concentrated effort to make sure that when we disturb the environment, we do it in a way that takes into account how we can work better with it. I take on board the Northern Gateway, which was the large motorway, actually, that ran to \u014Crewa from Albany, or wherever. But the culvert adaptation that was created during that project, it was a brand new adaptation to create culverts with the possible ripples through it. There were plastic inserts inside the culverts, so that as the water ran, as the streams ran, the ripples and pool effect of a normal stream was able to be duplicated so that it didn\u2019t interfere with what is the process for our native fish. There are ways for us to better work with our environment and make sure we don\u2019t just override what is our progress, supposedly, and then make sure that we take away things that are incredibly important to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EHowever, the concerns we have are the concerns around, for example, those articulated by Mr Scott\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247ce46da47ac454f92d54a5481c9eed1\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Simpson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242d7c76f0ff6429199363f5d31fe523e\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Simpson. Mr Simpson. Thank you, Mr Guy. It\u2019s all right. We\u2019ll get there in the end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d30ac19d669243d88bbcdb427170214f\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Here to help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224752b79996c447d6ba9e5e5c97b1fa4f\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s loud but not very effective. Ha, ha! So we do have similar concerns to Mr Simpson\u2019s, which is around the level of consultation that has taken place, which is around actually making sure that while we\u2019re trying to protect one part of our environment, we don\u2019t have unintended consequences that affect another. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EIf we do talk about, for example, trout in this nation\u2014and can I just mention, though, the comments by the Hon David Parker around koi carp. I absolutely agree that we have an issue in this nation with koi carp, and we really do need a concerted effort in this nation to deal with that problem. That needs to be at an educational level about those that are actually releasing goldfish into the environment, about those that have decided that it\u2019s a great species to have here, without recognising that, actually, it\u2019s doing more to destroy our environment and costing us other species on the downstream of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EBut, I mean, 110,000 people buy trout fishing licences every year. We do need to make sure that when we make some rules over here, we don\u2019t have unintended consequences over there. The Hon David Parker acknowledged that there must be a way\u2014there surely is a way\u2014through this, through Fish \u0026amp; Game and through the Department of Conservation. And that is exactly, I would say, Mr Simpson, the real value of the select committee. The select committee is where those groups can come and talk to the representatives of the Parliament without having to come and talk to representatives of parties individually, and where representatives of the Parliament can come together and, through their\u2014I suppose, what would you call it?\u2014collective brainpower that might be at a select committee, they can come forward with those recommendations that make sure that as a nation we move forward. And that\u2019s the value of the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI know that it was a particular line that the Opposition wanted to run about a particularly effective and very hard-working Minister. I know that it\u2019s one of those things that they like to run when they see somebody doing their job as well as this Minister is doing\u2014then the opportunity to just have a little chip is always there. But that is exactly what select committee is for. That is the power of select committee, to send a piece of legislation that has been thought out as well as it can be and gets sent to select committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa4a57670ffe48d18c7b33eff7259782\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: I think there\u2019ll be another redhead in the conservation department very soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022999b194df43f4d8090b554d84fa8ae67\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014so that the combined power of the Parliament. Yes, Mr Simpson, you can participate fully. The combined power of the Parliament can actually bring their weight to bear and improve in those places where Mr Simpson would like to improve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EBefore I sit down, I would like to say one further thing. Ms Dowie, in her contribution, talked about, I think it was, her favourite fish, which is the longfin eel. One of the things that is happening with regard to\u2014it\u2019s interesting when we talk about whitebait\u2014that glass eel. Juvenile eels are actually being depleted in the wild because they are being fished so that they can be grown in sort of a farmed environment and then sold on. And it was the previous National Government, unfortunately, that refused to provide any research dollars so that Mahurangi Technical Institute, for example, could break that 12-day barrier where young eels can actually feed off their own egg sac, and then we wouldn\u2019t have to deplete from the wild stocks, but we could actually have a highly profitable eel farming industry here in New Zealand without depleting our wild stock. So it is interesting that it\u2019s something that Ms Dowie loves but, unfortunately, none of them could fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo, with that, I will give the floor over to other colleagues. But, as I say, New Zealand First hopes to work constructively, as we always do, with our Labour Party coalition partners, with the supply and confidence Green partners, because we know on this side of the House that when you talk with each other, anything can be solved. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022f994f82ff5df4760b89c6eb3059625da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f994f82ff5df4760b89c6eb3059625da\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E What we just heard from Tracey Martin was the payback for the Greens voting and supporting the waka-jumping bill, wasn\u2019t it? Because we heard that New Zealand First said, \u201CYes, we\u2019ll support it to the first reading, but we\u2019re not quite sure whether we\u2019ll support it thereafter.\u201D Well, I\u2019ll tell you what\u2019ll happen. That was a speech written by Shane Jones, because he\u2019s the true fisheries Minister. So the Minister standing in for Shane Jones, Tracey Martin, had to come down and deliver that speech. I thought what was really fascinating was she spent more time talking about ripply culverts on the Northern Gateway\u2014she seemed quite an expert\u2014but what she failed to mention is that New Zealand First are dead against a four-lane highway carrying on from there through to Whangarei, which I think is really disappointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EFocusing back on this bill now\u2014this is a very important bill, the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill. It provides more tools for fisheries management of indigenous fisheries and, of course, the threat to fish and, in particular, noxious fish. We have heard numerous contributions this evening and, actually, some concern from this side of the House. And I want to run through some of those concerns that we do have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWe are cautiously supporting this bill to hear the debate in the select committee. We look forward to hearing from iwi. I wonder if the Minister of Conservation has already spoken to iwi about this bill. I wonder if the Minister for Crown/M\u0101ori Relations has bothered to pick up the phone and let iwi know that this bill is coming. All the heads are down on the other side\u2014even Willie Jackson\u2019s not even sure, in the back row, and you would\u2019ve thought that he would\u2019ve picked up the phone, being connected to iwi, and said, \u201CHey, this bill is coming. You may want to be alerted to it and spend some time focusing in on the deal.\u201D Was there any pre-consultation done by the Green Party Minister Eugenie Sage? That\u2019s a live question. It\u2019d be great to hear the response from the next speakers. I doubt that there has been any. Iwi will be a bit concerned about this bill, in particular their Treaty settlement and the obligations that this bill\u2014this bill is, basically, going to give Department of Conservation (DOC) officials more power, and I\u2019m a little bit concerned about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt also has an aspect to do with\u2014it gives the director-general the right to declare any specified land to be a spawning ground for freshwater fish, and prohibit or impose entry restrictions on to that land. These are wide ranging powers that need to be explored and fully debated in the select committee. That means the director-general can, basically, go on to a landowner\u2019s property and say, \u201CThis is a very significant waterway for spawning of native fish species, and we need to put a closure on it.\u201D Well, then who\u2019s going to\u2014if it\u2019s not fenced\u2014cover the cost of the fencing? Who\u2019s going to cover the cost of the signs? What about compensation for that? These are all the questions that need to be explored through the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAlso this bill proposes, effectively, to outrank and come in over the top of the sports fish and game management plan. These plans have been in place for a long time. It\u2019s interesting seeing the political power play, because normally these environmental NGOs\u2014whether it\u2019s Greenpeace, Fish \u0026amp; Game, Forest \u0026amp; Bird\u2014they all tend to line up with this Government, but there\u2019s quite a bit of factionalism that\u2019s actually playing out in the background at the moment, and that will play out in the select committee. So Fish \u0026amp; Game have gone as far as paying a QC to give them advice on the wide-ranging nature of this bill. So there\u2019s quite a bit of concern from Fish \u0026amp; Game, and they represent\u2014as we know\u2014a hell of a lot of people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt was interesting to note that Horizons Regional Council, covering the area that I represent\u2014Iain Lees-Galloway and Ian McKelvie, both MPs in the House this evening, where Horizons represent the areas that they are constituency MPs for\u2014wrote to the Minister in April. They wanted clarification from Minister Sage on trying to balance the interests of protecting trout and native fish species. The Minister said, \u201COh, don\u2019t worry, I\u2019ll come back to you in several months.\u201D Presumably, this is her answer. We know that trout are a very invasive species. I think what\u2019s going to play out in the select committee is the Resource Management Act section 6, that has particular regard for the protection of trout and salmon, where this bill is fundamentally about protecting native fish species and giving more wide-ranging powers to DOC officials, that I have some concerns about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAlso it\u2019s interesting, and it\u2019s not covered in any of the speeches so far, to note the work that farmers are doing, and, in particular, Fonterra farmers who have signed up with DOC, and they\u2019re on the crusade with a plan that covers off Living Water, which is a partnership. And I have seen numerous examples where Fonterra farmers have worked in partnership with DOC to protect fauna and also do more to protect waterways and native fish species.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s heartening to see that Springston farmer down near Christchurch, Phil Musson, a dairy farmer, who won the working with nature environmental award on behalf of North Canterbury Fish \u0026amp; Game\u2014he restored the Powells Road drain, which is a tributary into the Selwyn River, and very important for a trout spawning area. So we have progressive farmers that are out there doing their bit to enhance these particular native fish species that we are all so concerned about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s also interesting\u2014in the last couple of moments\u2014is to have a look at the recent media commentary around Federated Farmers indicating that farmers should be out putting their hands up to stand for the Fish \u0026amp; Game Council, which I think\u2019s very appropriate, isn\u2019t it? The elections are coming up in a couple of weeks\u2019 time. Farmers, on most occasions, when someone rings them up or knocks on their door, let recreational users, anglers, duck shooters, or hunters come on their property. You should have seen the negative comments that came back from Martin Taylor, who\u2019s the relatively new chief executive of Fish \u0026amp; Game. He said, \u201CThe idea seemed to be to get less progressive farmers on the councils\u201D\u2014this is the Fish \u0026amp; Game councils throughout New Zealand\u2014\u201Cin order to stop Fish \u0026amp; Game pointing out that the intensive farming emperor has no clothes.\u201D And I could go on and outline other negative comments from Martin Taylor that really disappointed me, because you would have thought that Fish \u0026amp; Game would want to have councils that are inclusive. Myself, a dairy farmer and an avid and very excited duck shooter, in every duck shooting season I go and buy a licence. What\u2019s wrong with me or my colleagues putting their hand up to say, \u201CWe\u2019re interested in fishing and hunting. We want to have our voices heard on the Fish \u0026amp; Game regional councils.\u201D? Potentially, they could get elected on to the national body, where there\u2019s 12 gentlemen sitting on there at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESo I think there are challenges for Fish \u0026amp; Game, who will no doubt be coming into the select committee saying, \u201CWe\u2019ve all got concerns about our fish and game management plans.\u201D The biggest concern that they\u2019ve got is about being inclusive and getting farmers democratically elected on to their regional councils so that they can actually bridge the gap and the divide, because these are the people that let hunters and anglers on to their property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00220d5314d530f644b185893bc33391cb26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d5314d530f644b185893bc33391cb26\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Dr Deborah Russell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f60225772f8c45c28917e58002761cce\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Next Minister of Conservation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00224d7bbcf8aa644b8788c081a9c57dae9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d7bbcf8aa644b8788c081a9c57dae9a\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Ha, ha! This bill is small fry in terms of what it does\u2014in terms of what it concerns itself with. It is actually only tidying up some small matters in the Conservation Act. You know, the scales have fallen from our eyes in terms of what might actually be in the Conservation Act. We\u2019ve seen the holes in the net of protections around our precious fish and come across problems, such as that native fish in national parks and in scenic reserves were protected, but native fish in conservation parks were not. It was a slippery set of rules that people found hard to understand. So this bill is a bit of a grab bag of measures. It is not a dredge, scooping up everything on the ocean floor. In fact, it\u2019s a set of tools\u2014you know, a set of flies, of hooks, of rods, of sinkers\u2014each targeted at a specific purpose to try to catch exactly the right problem. To snag the particular problem, to untie the knot, to sort it out\u2014this is what this bill aims to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn fact, for all the cries from the Opposition side of the House that there was no detail in this bill, I tell you, Mr Assistant Speaker, that in fact there is a lot of detail in this bill, and it tries to sort out some very specific problems. If we look at clause 5 of the bill, something that it makes very clear is that sports fishing will be permitted, but not at the expense of freshwater fish. So in other words, there\u2019s a balancing of provisions there. Clause 5 amends a particular definition. It inserts a provision saying that where there is a provision in a freshwater fisheries management plan and a provision in a sports fish and game management plan, then the provision in the freshwater fish management plan prevails. It\u2019s a really straightforward ordering rule, there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIf we go to clause 7, it inserts new sections 26ZHA and 26ZHB into the Act. What it is doing is it is making it very, very clear that a person can take indigenous fish from a fishery if it is taken primarily for food consumption, including for sale of food, and it can be taken if the fish are taken in a manner that does not lead to their injury or death. So it does allow for sports fishing, provided that those fish are returned to the waters as soon as practicable after being taken. That sort of detail is present in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIf we want to have a look at some of the real detail that\u2019s in here, if we go to clause 13 of the bill, it replaces section 26ZP(1) to (3) about closed seasons. Instead of having a closed season that may be imposed for any length of time, it limits those closed seasons to five years. That\u2019s the kind of detail that has been put into this bill by the very careful and conscientious Minister of Conservation. So I say to you, Mr Assistant Speaker, that the Minister has been very, very careful with this particular bill, trying to catch exactly the right rules and trying to catch exactly the right regulations to make it clear what this bill would apply to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo for all the cries from the other side of the House, I think this is a very careful bill. There has been one objection raised, in particular for the Fish \u0026amp; Game councils. And I think this is quite an important objection, talking about how Fish \u0026amp; Game has perhaps been excluded from this bill. But if we look at what Fish \u0026amp; Game\u2019s objectives are, their objectives are \u201Cto manage, maintain, and enhance\u201D sports fish and game birds. In other words, it\u2019s an objective that conflicts with the objective of protecting our indigenous fish. That\u2019s something we need to think about long and hard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAs a final word, may I pay a compliment to my former colleague at Massey University, now at Victoria University, Dr Mike Joy, whose work on fisheries has been so important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180904ba6a7fd7ec484c20a09da6fb91ce8d90000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"